1 |
DENIED
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ROLE_USER
|
null |
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Show voter details
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2 |
DENIED
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moderate
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Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1909
+user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2716 …}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1708 …}
+image: null
+domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2756 …}
+slug: "What-is-a-nifty-little-feature-modern-gadgets-have-lost"
+title: "What is a nifty little feature modern gadgets have lost?"
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+body: "For me it’s the notification light you used to find on older phones, was particularly good to know if your phone was charged without picking it up"
+type: "image"
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+lastActive: DateTime @1704857455 {#2242
date: 2024-01-10 04:30:55.0 +01:00
}
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+comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2755 …}
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+favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2784 …}
+notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2780 …}
+badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2797 …}
+children: [
7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2081
+user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1909 …2}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1708 …}
+image: null
+parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2077 …}
+root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2098 …}
+body: "You probably want the NFC antenna for that instead of Qi coils"
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date: 2023-12-28 18:55:31.0 +01:00
}
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"@fastandcurious@lemmy.world"
"@gedaliyah@lemmy.world"
"@I_Miss_Daniel@lemmy.world"
"@DudeDudenson@lemmings.world"
]
+children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2063 …}
+nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2064 …}
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+reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2087 …}
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-id: 259927
-bodyTs: "'antenna':6 'coil':12 'instead':9 'nfc':5 'probabl':2 'qi':11 'want':3"
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+createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703786131 {#2062
date: 2023-12-28 18:55:31.0 +01:00
}
+"title": 259927
}
5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2026
+user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1909 …2}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1708 …}
+image: null
+parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383 …}
+root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383 …}
+body: "A lot of cases have those still, plus industrial some phones have it built in"
+lang: "en"
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date: 2023-12-28 18:17:07.0 +01:00
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"@fastandcurious@lemmy.world"
"@WookieMonster@midwest.social"
]
+children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2024 …}
+nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2018 …}
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+notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2020 …}
-id: 259808
-bodyTs: "'built':14 'case':4 'industri':9 'lot':2 'phone':11 'plus':8 'still':7"
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+createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703783827 {#2032
date: 2023-12-28 18:17:07.0 +01:00
}
+"title": 259808
}
6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2031
+user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1909 …2}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1708 …}
+image: null
+parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2036 …}
+root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2036 …}
+body: "It’s harder to see from a distance if there’s something new and if it’s charging"
+lang: "en"
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+lastActive: DateTime @1703783860 {#2027
date: 2023-12-28 18:17:40.0 +01:00
}
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+mentions: [
"@fastandcurious@lemmy.world"
"@Katzelle3@lemmy.world"
]
+children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2037 …}
+nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2075 …}
+votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2079 …}
+reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2078 …}
+favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2097 …}
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-id: 259811
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+editedAt: null
+createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703783860 {#2035
date: 2023-12-28 18:17:40.0 +01:00
}
+"title": 259811
}
4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1384
+user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1909 …2}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1708 …}
+image: null
+parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1381 …}
+root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383 …}
+body: "You you mean electropermanent magnets?"
+lang: "en"
+isAdult: false
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+score: 0
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date: 2023-12-28 18:16:33.0 +01:00
}
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"@fastandcurious@lemmy.world"
"@WookieMonster@midwest.social"
"@SnipingNinja@slrpnk.net"
]
+children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1402 …}
+nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1385 …}
+votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1401 …}
+reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1363 …}
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+notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2019 …}
-id: 259805
-bodyTs: "'electroperman':4 'magnet':5 'mean':3"
+ranking: 0
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+visibility: "visible "
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+createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703783793 {#2393
date: 2023-12-28 18:16:33.0 +01:00
}
+"title": 259805
}
3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2072
+user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1909 …2}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1708 …}
+image: null
+parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2069 …}
+root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383 …}
+body: "Those use arrays of electropermanent magnets"
+lang: "en"
+isAdult: false
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date: 2023-12-29 15:41:59.0 +01:00
}
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"@fastandcurious@lemmy.world"
"@WookieMonster@midwest.social"
"@SnipingNinja@slrpnk.net"
"@Natanael@slrpnk.net"
]
+children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2065 …}
+nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2066 …}
+votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2067 …}
+reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2049 …}
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+notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2059 …}
-id: 262239
-bodyTs: "'array':3 'electroperman':5 'magnet':6 'use':2"
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date: 2023-12-29 15:41:59.0 +01:00
}
+"title": 262239
}
2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906
+user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1909 …2}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1708 …}
+image: null
+parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1926 …}
+root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1926 …}
+body: "WiFi Direct has taken the place of that but very very few apps use it and there’s compatibility issues"
+lang: "en"
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date: 2023-12-28 18:14:20.0 +01:00
}
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+mentions: [
"@fastandcurious@lemmy.world"
"@Bytemeister@lemmy.world"
]
+children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1410 …}
+nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1907 …}
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+reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2391 …}
+favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2369 …}
+notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2392 …}
-id: 259800
-bodyTs: "'app':13 'compat':19 'direct':2 'issu':20 'place':6 'taken':4 'use':14 'wifi':1"
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+createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703783660 {#1910
date: 2023-12-28 18:14:20.0 +01:00
}
+"title": 259800
}
1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2344
+user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1909 …2}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1708 …}
+image: null
+parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2349 …}
+root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2036 …}
+body: "That can vary between devices and mine never shows color in that mode"
+lang: "en"
+isAdult: false
+favouriteCount: 1
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date: 2023-12-28 19:06:34.0 +01:00
}
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"@fastandcurious@lemmy.world"
"@Katzelle3@lemmy.world"
"@Natanael@slrpnk.net"
]
+children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2042 …}
+nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2060 …}
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+notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2325 …}
-id: 259967
-bodyTs: "'color':10 'devic':5 'mine':7 'mode':13 'never':8 'show':9 'vari':3"
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+createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703786794 {#2332
date: 2023-12-28 19:06:34.0 +01:00
}
+"title": 259967
}
0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2140
+user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1909 …2}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1708 …}
+image: null
+parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2130 …}
+root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1926 …}
+body: "The API supports more than 2 simultaneous connections, but the built in sharing tool in Android probably doesn’t"
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date: 2023-12-28 19:05:58.0 +01:00
}
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"@fastandcurious@lemmy.world"
"@Bytemeister@lemmy.world"
"@Natanael@slrpnk.net"
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+children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2133 …}
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]
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date: 2024-02-23 02:07:39.0 +01:00
}
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date: 2023-12-28 11:18:32.0 +01:00
}
+__isInitialized__: true
…2
} |
|
Show voter details
|
3 |
DENIED
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edit
|
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1909
+user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2716 …}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1708 …}
+image: null
+domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2756 …}
+slug: "What-is-a-nifty-little-feature-modern-gadgets-have-lost"
+title: "What is a nifty little feature modern gadgets have lost?"
+url: "https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/f8b78001-0081-4f80-95f8-fdbe7639da5a.jpeg"
+body: "For me it’s the notification light you used to find on older phones, was particularly good to know if your phone was charged without picking it up"
+type: "image"
+lang: "en"
+isOc: false
+hasEmbed: true
+commentCount: 823
+favouriteCount: 1054
+score: 0
+isAdult: false
+sticky: false
+lastActive: DateTime @1704857455 {#2242
date: 2024-01-10 04:30:55.0 +01:00
}
+ip: null
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+comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2755 …}
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+favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2784 …}
+notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2780 …}
+badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2797 …}
+children: [
7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2081
+user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1909 …2}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1708 …}
+image: null
+parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2077 …}
+root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2098 …}
+body: "You probably want the NFC antenna for that instead of Qi coils"
+lang: "en"
+isAdult: false
+favouriteCount: 2
+score: 0
+lastActive: DateTime @1703786131 {#2096
date: 2023-12-28 18:55:31.0 +01:00
}
+ip: null
+tags: null
+mentions: [
"@fastandcurious@lemmy.world"
"@gedaliyah@lemmy.world"
"@I_Miss_Daniel@lemmy.world"
"@DudeDudenson@lemmings.world"
]
+children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2063 …}
+nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2064 …}
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+reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2087 …}
+favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2086 …}
+notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2093 …}
-id: 259927
-bodyTs: "'antenna':6 'coil':12 'instead':9 'nfc':5 'probabl':2 'qi':11 'want':3"
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+createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703786131 {#2062
date: 2023-12-28 18:55:31.0 +01:00
}
+"title": 259927
}
5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2026
+user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1909 …2}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1708 …}
+image: null
+parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383 …}
+root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383 …}
+body: "A lot of cases have those still, plus industrial some phones have it built in"
+lang: "en"
+isAdult: false
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date: 2023-12-28 18:17:07.0 +01:00
}
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"@fastandcurious@lemmy.world"
"@WookieMonster@midwest.social"
]
+children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2024 …}
+nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2018 …}
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date: 2023-12-28 18:17:07.0 +01:00
}
+"title": 259808
}
6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2031
+user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1909 …2}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1708 …}
+image: null
+parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2036 …}
+root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2036 …}
+body: "It’s harder to see from a distance if there’s something new and if it’s charging"
+lang: "en"
+isAdult: false
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date: 2023-12-28 18:17:40.0 +01:00
}
+ip: null
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+mentions: [
"@fastandcurious@lemmy.world"
"@Katzelle3@lemmy.world"
]
+children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2037 …}
+nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2075 …}
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+reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2078 …}
+favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2097 …}
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+editedAt: null
+createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703783860 {#2035
date: 2023-12-28 18:17:40.0 +01:00
}
+"title": 259811
}
4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1384
+user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1909 …2}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1708 …}
+image: null
+parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1381 …}
+root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383 …}
+body: "You you mean electropermanent magnets?"
+lang: "en"
+isAdult: false
+favouriteCount: 0
+score: 0
+lastActive: DateTime @1703783793 {#2395
date: 2023-12-28 18:16:33.0 +01:00
}
+ip: null
+tags: null
+mentions: [
"@fastandcurious@lemmy.world"
"@WookieMonster@midwest.social"
"@SnipingNinja@slrpnk.net"
]
+children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1402 …}
+nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1385 …}
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+reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1363 …}
+favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1362 …}
+notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2019 …}
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-bodyTs: "'electroperman':4 'magnet':5 'mean':3"
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+visibility: "visible "
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date: 2023-12-28 18:16:33.0 +01:00
}
+"title": 259805
}
3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2072
+user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1909 …2}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1708 …}
+image: null
+parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2069 …}
+root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383 …}
+body: "Those use arrays of electropermanent magnets"
+lang: "en"
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2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906
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1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2344
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0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2140
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…2
} |
|
Show voter details
|
4 |
DENIED
|
moderate
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Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1909
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7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2081
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5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2026
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6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2031
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4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1384
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date: 2023-12-28 18:16:33.0 +01:00
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}
3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2072
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2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906
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}
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}
1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2344
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0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2140
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date: 2023-12-28 11:18:32.0 +01:00
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…2
} |
|
Show voter details
|
5 |
DENIED
|
ROLE_USER
|
null |
|
Show voter details
|
6 |
DENIED
|
moderate
|
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2081
+user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2081}
5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2026
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6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2031
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4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1384
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3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2072
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2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906
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1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2344
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0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2140
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…2
}
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|
Show voter details
|
7 |
DENIED
|
edit
|
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2081
+user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1909
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+body: "For me it’s the notification light you used to find on older phones, was particularly good to know if your phone was charged without picking it up"
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7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2081}
5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2026
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6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2031
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4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1384
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3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2072
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2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906
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1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2344
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0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2140
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…2
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|
Show voter details
|
8 |
DENIED
|
moderate
|
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2081
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7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2081}
5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2026
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6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2031
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4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1384
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3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2072
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2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906
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1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2344
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0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2140
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}
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date: 2023-12-28 11:18:32.0 +01:00
}
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…2
}
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date: 2023-12-28 18:55:31.0 +01:00
}
+"title": 259927
} |
|
Show voter details
|
9 |
DENIED
|
ROLE_USER
|
null |
|
Show voter details
|
10 |
DENIED
|
moderate
|
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2026
+user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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+domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2756 …}
+slug: "What-is-a-nifty-little-feature-modern-gadgets-have-lost"
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date: 2024-01-10 04:30:55.0 +01:00
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7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2081
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date: 2023-12-28 18:55:31.0 +01:00
}
+"title": 259927
}
5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2026}
6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2031
+user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1909 …2}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1708 …}
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+parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2036 …}
+root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2036 …}
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"@Katzelle3@lemmy.world"
]
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4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1384
+user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1708 …}
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"@fastandcurious@lemmy.world"
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date: 2023-12-28 18:16:33.0 +01:00
}
+"title": 259805
}
3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2072
+user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1909 …2}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1708 …}
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+parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2069 …}
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"@WookieMonster@midwest.social"
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]
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date: 2023-12-29 15:41:59.0 +01:00
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}
2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906
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+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1909 …2}
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]
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}
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}
1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2344
+user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1708 …}
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date: 2023-12-28 19:06:34.0 +01:00
}
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}
0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2140
+user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1909 …2}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1708 …}
+image: null
+parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2130 …}
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]
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date: 2024-02-23 02:07:39.0 +01:00
}
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date: 2023-12-28 11:18:32.0 +01:00
}
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…2
}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1708 …}
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+parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383 …}
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date: 2023-12-28 18:17:07.0 +01:00
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+"title": 259808
} |
|
Show voter details
|
11 |
DENIED
|
edit
|
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2026
+user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1909
+user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2716 …}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1708 …}
+image: null
+domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2756 …}
+slug: "What-is-a-nifty-little-feature-modern-gadgets-have-lost"
+title: "What is a nifty little feature modern gadgets have lost?"
+url: "https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/f8b78001-0081-4f80-95f8-fdbe7639da5a.jpeg"
+body: "For me it’s the notification light you used to find on older phones, was particularly good to know if your phone was charged without picking it up"
+type: "image"
+lang: "en"
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+hasEmbed: true
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date: 2024-01-10 04:30:55.0 +01:00
}
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+comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2755 …}
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+notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2780 …}
+badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2797 …}
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7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2081
+user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1909 …2}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1708 …}
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+parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2077 …}
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"@gedaliyah@lemmy.world"
"@I_Miss_Daniel@lemmy.world"
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]
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date: 2023-12-28 18:55:31.0 +01:00
}
+"title": 259927
}
5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2026}
6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2031
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+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1909 …2}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1708 …}
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]
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date: 2023-12-28 18:17:40.0 +01:00
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}
4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1384
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"@WookieMonster@midwest.social"
"@SnipingNinja@slrpnk.net"
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+nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1385 …}
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date: 2023-12-28 18:16:33.0 +01:00
}
+"title": 259805
}
3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2072
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+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1708 …}
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+parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2069 …}
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]
+children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2065 …}
+nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2066 …}
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date: 2023-12-29 15:41:59.0 +01:00
}
+"title": 262239
}
2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906
+user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1909 …2}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1708 …}
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+parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1926 …}
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date: 2023-12-28 18:14:20.0 +01:00
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"@Bytemeister@lemmy.world"
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+children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1410 …}
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date: 2023-12-28 18:14:20.0 +01:00
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1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2344
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date: 2023-12-28 19:06:34.0 +01:00
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+children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2042 …}
+nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2060 …}
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0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2140
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…2
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|
Show voter details
|
12 |
DENIED
|
moderate
|
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2026
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7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2081
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5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2026}
6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2031
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4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1384
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3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2072
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}
2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906
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1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2344
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}
0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2140
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]
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}
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…2
}
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date: 2023-12-28 18:17:07.0 +01:00
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+"title": 259808
} |
|
Show voter details
|
13 |
DENIED
|
ROLE_USER
|
null |
|
Show voter details
|
14 |
DENIED
|
moderate
|
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2031
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+slug: "What-is-a-nifty-little-feature-modern-gadgets-have-lost"
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date: 2024-01-10 04:30:55.0 +01:00
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7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2081
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5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2026
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6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2031}
4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1384
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3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2072
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2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906
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1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2344
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0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2140
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]
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…2
}
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|
Show voter details
|
15 |
DENIED
|
edit
|
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2031
+user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1909
+user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2716 …}
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+domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2756 …}
+slug: "What-is-a-nifty-little-feature-modern-gadgets-have-lost"
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+body: "For me it’s the notification light you used to find on older phones, was particularly good to know if your phone was charged without picking it up"
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7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2081
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5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2026
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6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2031}
4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1384
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date: 2023-12-28 18:16:33.0 +01:00
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3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2072
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2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906
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1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2344
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0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2140
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…2
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|
Show voter details
|
16 |
DENIED
|
moderate
|
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2031
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7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2081
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5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2026
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6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2031}
4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1384
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3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2072
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}
2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906
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1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2344
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0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2140
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…2
}
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date: 2023-12-28 18:17:40.0 +01:00
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+"title": 259811
} |
|
Show voter details
|
17 |
DENIED
|
ROLE_USER
|
null |
|
Show voter details
|
18 |
DENIED
|
moderate
|
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1384
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7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2081
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5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2026
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6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2031
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4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1384}
3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2072
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2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906
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1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2344
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0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2140
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…2
}
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} |
|
Show voter details
|
19 |
DENIED
|
edit
|
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1384
+user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1909
+user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2716 …}
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7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2081
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5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2026
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6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2031
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4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1384}
3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2072
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}
2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906
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1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2344
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0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2140
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Show voter details
|
20 |
DENIED
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moderate
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#1384
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5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2026
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4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1384}
3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2072
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2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906
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1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2344
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0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2140
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…2
}
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} |
|
Show voter details
|
21 |
DENIED
|
ROLE_USER
|
null |
|
Show voter details
|
22 |
DENIED
|
moderate
|
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2072
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5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2026
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6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2031
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4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1384
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"@WookieMonster@midwest.social"
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}
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}
3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2072}
2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906
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}
1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2344
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0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2140
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date: 2023-12-28 11:18:32.0 +01:00
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…2
}
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date: 2023-12-29 15:41:59.0 +01:00
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|
Show voter details
|
23 |
DENIED
|
edit
|
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2072
+user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1909
+user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2716 …}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1708 …}
+image: null
+domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2756 …}
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7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2081
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5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2026
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6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2031
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date: 2023-12-28 18:17:40.0 +01:00
}
+"title": 259811
}
4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1384
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}
+"title": 259805
}
3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2072}
2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906
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1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2344
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date: 2023-12-28 19:06:34.0 +01:00
}
+"title": 259967
}
0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2140
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+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1909 …2}
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}
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date: 2023-12-28 11:18:32.0 +01:00
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…2
}
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date: 2023-12-29 15:41:59.0 +01:00
}
+"title": 262239
} |
|
Show voter details
|
24 |
DENIED
|
moderate
|
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2072
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7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2081
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5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2026
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6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2031
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}
4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1384
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}
3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2072}
2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906
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1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2344
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}
+"title": 259967
}
0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2140
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]
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…2
}
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} |
|
Show voter details
|
25 |
DENIED
|
ROLE_USER
|
null |
|
Show voter details
|
26 |
DENIED
|
moderate
|
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906
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7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2081
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5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2026
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6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2031
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date: 2023-12-28 18:17:40.0 +01:00
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4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1384
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date: 2023-12-28 18:16:33.0 +01:00
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}
3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2072
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}
2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906}
1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2344
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date: 2023-12-28 19:06:34.0 +01:00
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+"title": 259967
}
0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2140
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+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1909 …2}
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date: 2023-12-28 19:05:58.0 +01:00
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}
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date: 2023-12-28 11:18:32.0 +01:00
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…2
}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1708 …}
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date: 2023-12-28 18:14:20.0 +01:00
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+"title": 259800
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|
Show voter details
|
27 |
DENIED
|
edit
|
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906
+user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1909
+user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2716 …}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1708 …}
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7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2081
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}
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}
5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2026
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6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2031
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date: 2023-12-28 18:17:40.0 +01:00
}
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}
4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1384
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date: 2023-12-28 18:16:33.0 +01:00
}
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}
3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2072
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}
+"title": 262239
}
2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906}
1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2344
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date: 2023-12-28 19:06:34.0 +01:00
}
+"title": 259967
}
0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2140
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+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1909 …2}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1708 …}
+image: null
+parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2130 …}
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date: 2023-12-28 19:05:58.0 +01:00
}
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"@fastandcurious@lemmy.world"
"@Bytemeister@lemmy.world"
"@Natanael@slrpnk.net"
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]
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date: 2024-02-23 02:07:39.0 +01:00
}
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date: 2023-12-28 11:18:32.0 +01:00
}
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…2
}
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date: 2023-12-28 18:14:20.0 +01:00
}
+"title": 259800
} |
|
Show voter details
|
28 |
DENIED
|
moderate
|
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906
+user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1909
+user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2716 …}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1708 …}
+image: null
+domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2756 …}
+slug: "What-is-a-nifty-little-feature-modern-gadgets-have-lost"
+title: "What is a nifty little feature modern gadgets have lost?"
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+body: "For me it’s the notification light you used to find on older phones, was particularly good to know if your phone was charged without picking it up"
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date: 2024-01-10 04:30:55.0 +01:00
}
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+badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2797 …}
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7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2081
+user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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+parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2077 …}
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"@gedaliyah@lemmy.world"
"@I_Miss_Daniel@lemmy.world"
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+children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2063 …}
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+"title": 259927
}
5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2026
+user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1909 …2}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1708 …}
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"@fastandcurious@lemmy.world"
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}
6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2031
+user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1708 …}
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"@fastandcurious@lemmy.world"
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]
+children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2037 …}
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date: 2023-12-28 18:17:40.0 +01:00
}
+"title": 259811
}
4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1384
+user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1909 …2}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1708 …}
+image: null
+parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1381 …}
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date: 2023-12-28 18:16:33.0 +01:00
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"@fastandcurious@lemmy.world"
"@WookieMonster@midwest.social"
"@SnipingNinja@slrpnk.net"
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+children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1402 …}
+nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1385 …}
+votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1401 …}
+reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1363 …}
+favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1362 …}
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date: 2023-12-28 18:16:33.0 +01:00
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}
3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2072
+user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1909 …2}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1708 …}
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]
+children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2065 …}
+nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2066 …}
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date: 2023-12-29 15:41:59.0 +01:00
}
+"title": 262239
}
2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906}
1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2344
+user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1909 …2}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1708 …}
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date: 2023-12-28 19:06:34.0 +01:00
}
+"title": 259967
}
0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2140
+user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1909 …2}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1708 …}
+image: null
+parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2130 …}
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+body: "The API supports more than 2 simultaneous connections, but the built in sharing tool in Android probably doesn’t"
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"@fastandcurious@lemmy.world"
"@Bytemeister@lemmy.world"
"@Natanael@slrpnk.net"
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+children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2133 …}
+nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2131 …}
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+reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2345 …}
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]
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date: 2024-02-23 02:07:39.0 +01:00
}
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date: 2023-12-28 11:18:32.0 +01:00
}
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…2
}
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} |
|
Show voter details
|
29 |
DENIED
|
ROLE_USER
|
null |
|
Show voter details
|
30 |
DENIED
|
moderate
|
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2344
+user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1909
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+domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2756 …}
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+body: "For me it’s the notification light you used to find on older phones, was particularly good to know if your phone was charged without picking it up"
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date: 2024-01-10 04:30:55.0 +01:00
}
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7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2081
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date: 2023-12-28 18:55:31.0 +01:00
}
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}
5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2026
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"@fastandcurious@lemmy.world"
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+children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2024 …}
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date: 2023-12-28 18:17:07.0 +01:00
}
+"title": 259808
}
6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2031
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]
+children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2037 …}
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date: 2023-12-28 18:17:40.0 +01:00
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+"title": 259811
}
4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1384
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date: 2023-12-28 18:16:33.0 +01:00
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+children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1402 …}
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date: 2023-12-28 18:16:33.0 +01:00
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+"title": 259805
}
3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2072
+user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1909 …2}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1708 …}
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+parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2069 …}
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+body: "Those use arrays of electropermanent magnets"
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date: 2023-12-29 15:41:59.0 +01:00
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"@WookieMonster@midwest.social"
"@SnipingNinja@slrpnk.net"
"@Natanael@slrpnk.net"
]
+children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2065 …}
+nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2066 …}
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date: 2023-12-29 15:41:59.0 +01:00
}
+"title": 262239
}
2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906
+user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1909 …2}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1708 …}
+image: null
+parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1926 …}
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}
+"title": 259800
}
1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2344}
0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2140
+user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1909 …2}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1708 …}
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+parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2130 …}
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date: 2023-12-28 19:05:58.0 +01:00
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}
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date: 2023-12-28 11:18:32.0 +01:00
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…2
}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1708 …}
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date: 2023-12-28 19:06:34.0 +01:00
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|
Show voter details
|
31 |
DENIED
|
edit
|
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2344
+user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1909
+user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2716 …}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1708 …}
+image: null
+domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2756 …}
+slug: "What-is-a-nifty-little-feature-modern-gadgets-have-lost"
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7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2081
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+parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2077 …}
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5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2026
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6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2031
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date: 2023-12-28 18:17:40.0 +01:00
}
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}
4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1384
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}
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}
3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2072
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}
2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906
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date: 2023-12-28 18:14:20.0 +01:00
}
+"title": 259800
}
1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2344}
0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2140
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]
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}
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date: 2023-12-28 11:18:32.0 +01:00
}
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…2
}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1708 …}
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date: 2023-12-28 19:06:34.0 +01:00
}
+"title": 259967
} |
|
Show voter details
|
32 |
DENIED
|
moderate
|
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2344
+user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1909
+user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2716 …}
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+image: null
+domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2756 …}
+slug: "What-is-a-nifty-little-feature-modern-gadgets-have-lost"
+title: "What is a nifty little feature modern gadgets have lost?"
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+body: "For me it’s the notification light you used to find on older phones, was particularly good to know if your phone was charged without picking it up"
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date: 2024-01-10 04:30:55.0 +01:00
}
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7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2081
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date: 2023-12-28 18:55:31.0 +01:00
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5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2026
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+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1909 …2}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1708 …}
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6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2031
+user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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date: 2023-12-28 18:17:40.0 +01:00
}
+"title": 259811
}
4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1384
+user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1909 …2}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1708 …}
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3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2072
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}
2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906
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+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1708 …}
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}
1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2344}
0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2140
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+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1909 …2}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1708 …}
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]
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}
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date: 2023-12-28 11:18:32.0 +01:00
}
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…2
}
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} |
|
Show voter details
|
33 |
DENIED
|
ROLE_USER
|
null |
|
Show voter details
|
34 |
DENIED
|
moderate
|
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2140
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7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2081
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5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2026
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}
6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2031
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date: 2023-12-28 18:17:40.0 +01:00
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4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1384
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date: 2023-12-28 18:16:33.0 +01:00
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}
3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2072
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}
2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906
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date: 2023-12-28 18:14:20.0 +01:00
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+children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1410 …}
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date: 2023-12-28 18:14:20.0 +01:00
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}
1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2344
+user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2140}
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…2
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|
Show voter details
|
35 |
DENIED
|
edit
|
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2140
+user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1909
+user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2716 …}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1708 …}
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7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2081
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5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2026
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6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2031
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}
4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1384
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}
3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2072
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2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906
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}
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}
1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2344
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+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1708 …}
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}
0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2140}
]
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}
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date: 2023-12-28 11:18:32.0 +01:00
}
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…2
}
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date: 2023-12-28 19:05:58.0 +01:00
}
+"title": 259963
} |
|
Show voter details
|
36 |
DENIED
|
moderate
|
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2140
+user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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+domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2756 …}
+slug: "What-is-a-nifty-little-feature-modern-gadgets-have-lost"
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date: 2024-01-10 04:30:55.0 +01:00
}
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7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2081
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date: 2023-12-28 18:55:31.0 +01:00
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}
5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2026
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6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2031
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4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1384
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3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2072
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2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906
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1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2344
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0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2140}
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|
Show voter details
|
37 |
DENIED
|
ROLE_USER
|
null |
|
Show voter details
|
38 |
DENIED
|
moderate
|
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2103
+user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2919 …}
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[mullvad.net/en/help/install-mullvad-app-linux](https://mullvad.net/en/help/install-mullvad-app-linux)\n
\n
Trying to install VPN and these are the instructions Mullvad is giving me. This is ridiculous. There must be a more simple way. I know how to follow the instructions but I have no idea what I’m doing here. Can’t I just download a file and install it? I’m on Ubuntu.
"""
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|
Show voter details
|
39 |
DENIED
|
edit
|
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2103
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[mullvad.net/en/help/install-mullvad-app-linux](https://mullvad.net/en/help/install-mullvad-app-linux)\n
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Trying to install VPN and these are the instructions Mullvad is giving me. This is ridiculous. There must be a more simple way. I know how to follow the instructions but I have no idea what I’m doing here. Can’t I just download a file and install it? I’m on Ubuntu.
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Show voter details
|
40 |
DENIED
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moderate
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Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2103
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[mullvad.net/en/help/install-mullvad-app-linux](https://mullvad.net/en/help/install-mullvad-app-linux)\n
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date: 2024-01-01 09:56:21.0 +01:00
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…2
} |
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Show voter details
|
41 |
DENIED
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ROLE_USER
|
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42 |
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moderate
|
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2109
+user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2103
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+domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2921 …}
+slug: "New-Linux-user-here-Is-this-really-how-I-m-supposed"
+title: "New Linux user here. Is this really how I'm supposed to install apps on Linux?"
+url: null
+body: """
[mullvad.net/en/help/install-mullvad-app-linux](https://mullvad.net/en/help/install-mullvad-app-linux)\n
\n
Trying to install VPN and these are the instructions Mullvad is giving me. This is ridiculous. There must be a more simple way. I know how to follow the instructions but I have no idea what I’m doing here. Can’t I just download a file and install it? I’m on Ubuntu.
"""
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date: 2024-01-03 01:57:45.0 +01:00
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} |
|
Show voter details
|
43 |
DENIED
|
edit
|
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2109
+user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2103
+user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2919 …}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2106 …}
+image: null
+domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2921 …}
+slug: "New-Linux-user-here-Is-this-really-how-I-m-supposed"
+title: "New Linux user here. Is this really how I'm supposed to install apps on Linux?"
+url: null
+body: """
[mullvad.net/en/help/install-mullvad-app-linux](https://mullvad.net/en/help/install-mullvad-app-linux)\n
\n
Trying to install VPN and these are the instructions Mullvad is giving me. This is ridiculous. There must be a more simple way. I know how to follow the instructions but I have no idea what I’m doing here. Can’t I just download a file and install it? I’m on Ubuntu.
"""
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date: 2024-01-03 01:57:45.0 +01:00
}
+"title": 275235
} |
|
Show voter details
|
44 |
DENIED
|
moderate
|
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2109
+user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2103
+user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2919 …}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2106 …}
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+domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2921 …}
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+title: "New Linux user here. Is this really how I'm supposed to install apps on Linux?"
+url: null
+body: """
[mullvad.net/en/help/install-mullvad-app-linux](https://mullvad.net/en/help/install-mullvad-app-linux)\n
\n
Trying to install VPN and these are the instructions Mullvad is giving me. This is ridiculous. There must be a more simple way. I know how to follow the instructions but I have no idea what I’m doing here. Can’t I just download a file and install it? I’m on Ubuntu.
"""
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}
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date: 2024-01-03 01:57:45.0 +01:00
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+"title": 275235
} |
|
Show voter details
|
45 |
DENIED
|
ROLE_USER
|
null |
|
Show voter details
|
46 |
DENIED
|
moderate
|
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1592
+user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2715 …}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1579 …}
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+domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2843 …}
+slug: "Both-beliefs-are-fine-but-please-realize-the-hypocrisy"
+title: "Both beliefs are fine, but please realize the hypocrisy"
+url: "https://sh.itjust.works/pictrs/image/7c20a1be-a2cc-4078-881c-894db994be19.jpeg"
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+children: [
5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1556
+user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1592 …2}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1579 …}
+image: null
+parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1557 …}
+root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1555 …}
+body: "There’s an argument that because some of the physical limits we see around entropy density (due to singularities) are proportional to the area of a sphere around the volume, together with math indicating it’s possible to translate physics in a 3D volume to a 2D surface, the whole universe might be a projection from the 2D surface of a sphere"
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6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1697
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+body: "I’m not arguing any specific purpose of controlling a simulation in these ways, just that the arguments saying it wouldn’t happen are too weak. A multipurpose simulation (imagine one shared by many different teams of simulation researchers) could plausibly be used like this where they mess with just about anything and then reset. Doesn’t mean it’s likely, just that it’s unreasonable to exclude the possibility"
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"@darcy@sh.itjust.works"
"@dpkonofa@lemmy.world"
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date: 2023-12-24 02:50:31.0 +01:00
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4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1795
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+body: """
You’re conflating “possible” with “probable”, and refusing to address possibilities you don’t have proof of.\n
\n
When higgs bosons were predicted they were untestable. When gravity waves were predicted they were untestable. When black hole rings were predicted they were untestable.\n
\n
Then we discovered how to build the sensors and instruments to test them.\n
\n
You’re saying those scientists should’ve dropped their ideas because at that point it was still impossible to test or falsify.\n
\n
What scientists do instead is to develop many different alternative theories, then design tests and experiments, and then once data is in *then* they decide what do believe about the theories based on what the could prove or not.\n
\n
Edit: why are people like this so aggressively wrong in the dumbest ways… Not only did they pick only one of 3 examples of mine to attack and ignoring the rest, they also did so maximally incorrectly all while failing to understand the consequences of their own policy of rejecting anything you don’t know how to test.\n
\n
The core of my argument is really just “sometimes scientists works on stuff nobody knows how to test, because maybe they’ll find out how in the future”, and this dude’s argument is essentially “if you don’t know how to test something it’s literally impossible for it to be true and therefore it shall be rejected, but also scientists always knows the path forward and therefore I don’t have to reevaluate my understanding of science”
"""
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3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1723
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+body: "Besides the fact that it wasn’t actually known if those tests would work, there’s also hypothetical tests for simulation theory (eg. testing for pixelated resolution of spacetime, plus endless “consistency tests”) so doesn’t that make it all the same thing anyway? You’re making much too strong assumptions."
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+body: """
Physicists tends to work with precision in decimals, not multiple orders of magnitude. They didn’t know it would be there either, all they knew is the theory they had would be simpler if it was there than not.\n
\n
Your quote from the website is a bad attempt at backdating current knowledge from very recent research and experiments to the original discoverers\n
\n
[scientificamerican.com/…/how-the-higgs-boson-ruin…](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-the-higgs-boson-ruined-peter-higgss-life/)\n
\n
> The discovery of the Higgs boson came nearly 50 years after Higgs’s prediction, and he said he never expected it to be found in his lifetime.\n
\n
It’s not even known if there’s more than one Higgs boson, because the theory allows multiple variants.\n
\n
Look at that graph of how many different variants would decay differently;\n
\n
[home.cern/…/higgs-boson-revealing-natures-secrets](https://home.cern/news/series/lhc-physics-ten/higgs-boson-revealing-natures-secrets)\n
\n
They had thousands of different predictions and couldn’t know which were right until the data was in.\n
\n
> If, due to its mass, they could only observe the interplay between the Higgs boson on one hand and the W and Z bosons on the other, the puzzle of the fermion masses would remain unsolved. Discovering the particle at a convenient mass was an unexpected kindness from nature. If it were slightly more massive, above 180 GeV or so, the options to study it at the time of its discovery would have been more limited.\n
\n
> The variety of available transformation products means that data from the individual channels can be combined together through sophisticated techniques to build up a greater understanding of the particle. “Doing so is not trivial,” says Giovanni Petrucciani, co-convener of the Higgs analysis group in CMS. “You have to treat the uncertainties similarly across all the individual analyses and interpret the results carefully, once you have applied complicated statistical machinery.” Combining data from the transformation of the Higgs boson to pairs of Z bosons and pairs of photons allowed ATLAS and CMS to discover the Higgs boson in 2012.\n
\n
It was legitimately not known if we could find it. It could have been big enough that LHC would’ve failed, and then it could have taken us 50 more years to build a collider large enough (mostly due to cost, but still)\n
\n
In fact they’re only *mostly* sure still\n
\n
> Yet, the Brout-Englert-Higgs mechanism remains among the least-understood phenomena in the Standard Model. Indeed, while scientists have dropped the “-like” suffix and have understood the Higgs boson remarkably since its discovery, they still do not know if what was observed is the Higgs boson predicted by the Standard Model.\n
\n
You don’t even understand what I’m saying, how can you accuse me of walking back?\n
\n
You keep making unjustified claims even now. What if a simulator knows what you’re looking at and simply don’t mess with that? Clearly not impossible. Implausible? Absolutely, AND I KEEP SAYING SO, there’s no reason to believe it’s happening, *and yet it’s possible*. Your inability to comprehend doesn’t change the meaning of my statements.\n
\n
Your persistence in calling it meaningless because it’s unfalsifiable *with no further context* is equivalent to you calling most theoretical physics meaningless. A ton of theories like string theory is by your standard equally unfalsifiable and therefore we shall declare it impossible and stop investigating.\n
\n
Instead we develop endless hypothetical scenarios specifically so we can look for evidence when new tools for investigating fundamental physics become available.
"""
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1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1715
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+body: """
Found via Wikipedia. From the 70’s:\n
\n
> We should perhaps finish our paper with an apology and a caution. We apologize to experimentalists for having no idea what is the mass of the Higgs boson, …, and for not being sure of its couplings to other particles, except that they are probably all very small. For these reasons, we do not want to encourage big experimental searches for the Higgs boson, but we do feel that people doing experiments vulnerable to the Higgs boson should know how it may turn up.\n
\n
— John R. Ellis, Mary K. Gaillard, and Dimitri V. Nanopoulos,\n
\n
> One of the problems was that at the time there was almost no clue to the mass of the Higgs boson. Theoretical considerations left open a very wide range somewhere between 10 GeV/c2[13] and 1000 GeV/c2[14] with no real indication where to look.[1]\n
\n
So you’re literally as wrong as you could be. It wasn’t until what once was a wild hypothesis had been explored more that they could start to make better predictions around where it might be, decades later, and after tests narrowing down where it wasn’t.\n
\n
I didn’t “walk back” either. Exploring multiple possibilities is called hedging, not walking back (since that means you retracted something which I didn’t do), and scientists does it too. I didn’t say either one option is more likely, I told you there are many possibilities and then you insisted on calling several of them impossible not because any mechanics exclude it’s possibility but because you can’t see it. That’s plainly wrong. You can definitely argue it’s improbable, but you don’t get to call it impossible without proving it impossible.
"""
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0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1561
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+body: "You’re conflating things. We have no reason to argue those are true with any certainty, but we still can’t exclude the possibility. It’s the difference of “justified belief” vs coherent theory. Physics have had a ton of theories postulated without evidence where decades later one option was proven true and many others proven false. Under your assumption you shouldn’t have made that theory before it could be tested."
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…2
} |
|
Show voter details
|
47 |
DENIED
|
edit
|
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1592
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+slug: "Both-beliefs-are-fine-but-please-realize-the-hypocrisy"
+title: "Both beliefs are fine, but please realize the hypocrisy"
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5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1556
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+body: "There’s an argument that because some of the physical limits we see around entropy density (due to singularities) are proportional to the area of a sphere around the volume, together with math indicating it’s possible to translate physics in a 3D volume to a 2D surface, the whole universe might be a projection from the 2D surface of a sphere"
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6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1697
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+body: "I’m not arguing any specific purpose of controlling a simulation in these ways, just that the arguments saying it wouldn’t happen are too weak. A multipurpose simulation (imagine one shared by many different teams of simulation researchers) could plausibly be used like this where they mess with just about anything and then reset. Doesn’t mean it’s likely, just that it’s unreasonable to exclude the possibility"
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4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1795
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+body: """
You’re conflating “possible” with “probable”, and refusing to address possibilities you don’t have proof of.\n
\n
When higgs bosons were predicted they were untestable. When gravity waves were predicted they were untestable. When black hole rings were predicted they were untestable.\n
\n
Then we discovered how to build the sensors and instruments to test them.\n
\n
You’re saying those scientists should’ve dropped their ideas because at that point it was still impossible to test or falsify.\n
\n
What scientists do instead is to develop many different alternative theories, then design tests and experiments, and then once data is in *then* they decide what do believe about the theories based on what the could prove or not.\n
\n
Edit: why are people like this so aggressively wrong in the dumbest ways… Not only did they pick only one of 3 examples of mine to attack and ignoring the rest, they also did so maximally incorrectly all while failing to understand the consequences of their own policy of rejecting anything you don’t know how to test.\n
\n
The core of my argument is really just “sometimes scientists works on stuff nobody knows how to test, because maybe they’ll find out how in the future”, and this dude’s argument is essentially “if you don’t know how to test something it’s literally impossible for it to be true and therefore it shall be rejected, but also scientists always knows the path forward and therefore I don’t have to reevaluate my understanding of science”
"""
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+body: "Besides the fact that it wasn’t actually known if those tests would work, there’s also hypothetical tests for simulation theory (eg. testing for pixelated resolution of spacetime, plus endless “consistency tests”) so doesn’t that make it all the same thing anyway? You’re making much too strong assumptions."
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Physicists tends to work with precision in decimals, not multiple orders of magnitude. They didn’t know it would be there either, all they knew is the theory they had would be simpler if it was there than not.\n
\n
Your quote from the website is a bad attempt at backdating current knowledge from very recent research and experiments to the original discoverers\n
\n
[scientificamerican.com/…/how-the-higgs-boson-ruin…](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-the-higgs-boson-ruined-peter-higgss-life/)\n
\n
> The discovery of the Higgs boson came nearly 50 years after Higgs’s prediction, and he said he never expected it to be found in his lifetime.\n
\n
It’s not even known if there’s more than one Higgs boson, because the theory allows multiple variants.\n
\n
Look at that graph of how many different variants would decay differently;\n
\n
[home.cern/…/higgs-boson-revealing-natures-secrets](https://home.cern/news/series/lhc-physics-ten/higgs-boson-revealing-natures-secrets)\n
\n
They had thousands of different predictions and couldn’t know which were right until the data was in.\n
\n
> If, due to its mass, they could only observe the interplay between the Higgs boson on one hand and the W and Z bosons on the other, the puzzle of the fermion masses would remain unsolved. Discovering the particle at a convenient mass was an unexpected kindness from nature. If it were slightly more massive, above 180 GeV or so, the options to study it at the time of its discovery would have been more limited.\n
\n
> The variety of available transformation products means that data from the individual channels can be combined together through sophisticated techniques to build up a greater understanding of the particle. “Doing so is not trivial,” says Giovanni Petrucciani, co-convener of the Higgs analysis group in CMS. “You have to treat the uncertainties similarly across all the individual analyses and interpret the results carefully, once you have applied complicated statistical machinery.” Combining data from the transformation of the Higgs boson to pairs of Z bosons and pairs of photons allowed ATLAS and CMS to discover the Higgs boson in 2012.\n
\n
It was legitimately not known if we could find it. It could have been big enough that LHC would’ve failed, and then it could have taken us 50 more years to build a collider large enough (mostly due to cost, but still)\n
\n
In fact they’re only *mostly* sure still\n
\n
> Yet, the Brout-Englert-Higgs mechanism remains among the least-understood phenomena in the Standard Model. Indeed, while scientists have dropped the “-like” suffix and have understood the Higgs boson remarkably since its discovery, they still do not know if what was observed is the Higgs boson predicted by the Standard Model.\n
\n
You don’t even understand what I’m saying, how can you accuse me of walking back?\n
\n
You keep making unjustified claims even now. What if a simulator knows what you’re looking at and simply don’t mess with that? Clearly not impossible. Implausible? Absolutely, AND I KEEP SAYING SO, there’s no reason to believe it’s happening, *and yet it’s possible*. Your inability to comprehend doesn’t change the meaning of my statements.\n
\n
Your persistence in calling it meaningless because it’s unfalsifiable *with no further context* is equivalent to you calling most theoretical physics meaningless. A ton of theories like string theory is by your standard equally unfalsifiable and therefore we shall declare it impossible and stop investigating.\n
\n
Instead we develop endless hypothetical scenarios specifically so we can look for evidence when new tools for investigating fundamental physics become available.
"""
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+body: """
Found via Wikipedia. From the 70’s:\n
\n
> We should perhaps finish our paper with an apology and a caution. We apologize to experimentalists for having no idea what is the mass of the Higgs boson, …, and for not being sure of its couplings to other particles, except that they are probably all very small. For these reasons, we do not want to encourage big experimental searches for the Higgs boson, but we do feel that people doing experiments vulnerable to the Higgs boson should know how it may turn up.\n
\n
— John R. Ellis, Mary K. Gaillard, and Dimitri V. Nanopoulos,\n
\n
> One of the problems was that at the time there was almost no clue to the mass of the Higgs boson. Theoretical considerations left open a very wide range somewhere between 10 GeV/c2[13] and 1000 GeV/c2[14] with no real indication where to look.[1]\n
\n
So you’re literally as wrong as you could be. It wasn’t until what once was a wild hypothesis had been explored more that they could start to make better predictions around where it might be, decades later, and after tests narrowing down where it wasn’t.\n
\n
I didn’t “walk back” either. Exploring multiple possibilities is called hedging, not walking back (since that means you retracted something which I didn’t do), and scientists does it too. I didn’t say either one option is more likely, I told you there are many possibilities and then you insisted on calling several of them impossible not because any mechanics exclude it’s possibility but because you can’t see it. That’s plainly wrong. You can definitely argue it’s improbable, but you don’t get to call it impossible without proving it impossible.
"""
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+body: "You’re conflating things. We have no reason to argue those are true with any certainty, but we still can’t exclude the possibility. It’s the difference of “justified belief” vs coherent theory. Physics have had a ton of theories postulated without evidence where decades later one option was proven true and many others proven false. Under your assumption you shouldn’t have made that theory before it could be tested."
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…2
} |
|
Show voter details
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48 |
DENIED
|
moderate
|
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1592
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+slug: "Both-beliefs-are-fine-but-please-realize-the-hypocrisy"
+title: "Both beliefs are fine, but please realize the hypocrisy"
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5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1556
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+body: "There’s an argument that because some of the physical limits we see around entropy density (due to singularities) are proportional to the area of a sphere around the volume, together with math indicating it’s possible to translate physics in a 3D volume to a 2D surface, the whole universe might be a projection from the 2D surface of a sphere"
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6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1697
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+body: "I’m not arguing any specific purpose of controlling a simulation in these ways, just that the arguments saying it wouldn’t happen are too weak. A multipurpose simulation (imagine one shared by many different teams of simulation researchers) could plausibly be used like this where they mess with just about anything and then reset. Doesn’t mean it’s likely, just that it’s unreasonable to exclude the possibility"
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4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1795
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+body: """
You’re conflating “possible” with “probable”, and refusing to address possibilities you don’t have proof of.\n
\n
When higgs bosons were predicted they were untestable. When gravity waves were predicted they were untestable. When black hole rings were predicted they were untestable.\n
\n
Then we discovered how to build the sensors and instruments to test them.\n
\n
You’re saying those scientists should’ve dropped their ideas because at that point it was still impossible to test or falsify.\n
\n
What scientists do instead is to develop many different alternative theories, then design tests and experiments, and then once data is in *then* they decide what do believe about the theories based on what the could prove or not.\n
\n
Edit: why are people like this so aggressively wrong in the dumbest ways… Not only did they pick only one of 3 examples of mine to attack and ignoring the rest, they also did so maximally incorrectly all while failing to understand the consequences of their own policy of rejecting anything you don’t know how to test.\n
\n
The core of my argument is really just “sometimes scientists works on stuff nobody knows how to test, because maybe they’ll find out how in the future”, and this dude’s argument is essentially “if you don’t know how to test something it’s literally impossible for it to be true and therefore it shall be rejected, but also scientists always knows the path forward and therefore I don’t have to reevaluate my understanding of science”
"""
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3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1723
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+body: "Besides the fact that it wasn’t actually known if those tests would work, there’s also hypothetical tests for simulation theory (eg. testing for pixelated resolution of spacetime, plus endless “consistency tests”) so doesn’t that make it all the same thing anyway? You’re making much too strong assumptions."
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2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2462
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+body: """
Physicists tends to work with precision in decimals, not multiple orders of magnitude. They didn’t know it would be there either, all they knew is the theory they had would be simpler if it was there than not.\n
\n
Your quote from the website is a bad attempt at backdating current knowledge from very recent research and experiments to the original discoverers\n
\n
[scientificamerican.com/…/how-the-higgs-boson-ruin…](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-the-higgs-boson-ruined-peter-higgss-life/)\n
\n
> The discovery of the Higgs boson came nearly 50 years after Higgs’s prediction, and he said he never expected it to be found in his lifetime.\n
\n
It’s not even known if there’s more than one Higgs boson, because the theory allows multiple variants.\n
\n
Look at that graph of how many different variants would decay differently;\n
\n
[home.cern/…/higgs-boson-revealing-natures-secrets](https://home.cern/news/series/lhc-physics-ten/higgs-boson-revealing-natures-secrets)\n
\n
They had thousands of different predictions and couldn’t know which were right until the data was in.\n
\n
> If, due to its mass, they could only observe the interplay between the Higgs boson on one hand and the W and Z bosons on the other, the puzzle of the fermion masses would remain unsolved. Discovering the particle at a convenient mass was an unexpected kindness from nature. If it were slightly more massive, above 180 GeV or so, the options to study it at the time of its discovery would have been more limited.\n
\n
> The variety of available transformation products means that data from the individual channels can be combined together through sophisticated techniques to build up a greater understanding of the particle. “Doing so is not trivial,” says Giovanni Petrucciani, co-convener of the Higgs analysis group in CMS. “You have to treat the uncertainties similarly across all the individual analyses and interpret the results carefully, once you have applied complicated statistical machinery.” Combining data from the transformation of the Higgs boson to pairs of Z bosons and pairs of photons allowed ATLAS and CMS to discover the Higgs boson in 2012.\n
\n
It was legitimately not known if we could find it. It could have been big enough that LHC would’ve failed, and then it could have taken us 50 more years to build a collider large enough (mostly due to cost, but still)\n
\n
In fact they’re only *mostly* sure still\n
\n
> Yet, the Brout-Englert-Higgs mechanism remains among the least-understood phenomena in the Standard Model. Indeed, while scientists have dropped the “-like” suffix and have understood the Higgs boson remarkably since its discovery, they still do not know if what was observed is the Higgs boson predicted by the Standard Model.\n
\n
You don’t even understand what I’m saying, how can you accuse me of walking back?\n
\n
You keep making unjustified claims even now. What if a simulator knows what you’re looking at and simply don’t mess with that? Clearly not impossible. Implausible? Absolutely, AND I KEEP SAYING SO, there’s no reason to believe it’s happening, *and yet it’s possible*. Your inability to comprehend doesn’t change the meaning of my statements.\n
\n
Your persistence in calling it meaningless because it’s unfalsifiable *with no further context* is equivalent to you calling most theoretical physics meaningless. A ton of theories like string theory is by your standard equally unfalsifiable and therefore we shall declare it impossible and stop investigating.\n
\n
Instead we develop endless hypothetical scenarios specifically so we can look for evidence when new tools for investigating fundamental physics become available.
"""
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+body: """
Found via Wikipedia. From the 70’s:\n
\n
> We should perhaps finish our paper with an apology and a caution. We apologize to experimentalists for having no idea what is the mass of the Higgs boson, …, and for not being sure of its couplings to other particles, except that they are probably all very small. For these reasons, we do not want to encourage big experimental searches for the Higgs boson, but we do feel that people doing experiments vulnerable to the Higgs boson should know how it may turn up.\n
\n
— John R. Ellis, Mary K. Gaillard, and Dimitri V. Nanopoulos,\n
\n
> One of the problems was that at the time there was almost no clue to the mass of the Higgs boson. Theoretical considerations left open a very wide range somewhere between 10 GeV/c2[13] and 1000 GeV/c2[14] with no real indication where to look.[1]\n
\n
So you’re literally as wrong as you could be. It wasn’t until what once was a wild hypothesis had been explored more that they could start to make better predictions around where it might be, decades later, and after tests narrowing down where it wasn’t.\n
\n
I didn’t “walk back” either. Exploring multiple possibilities is called hedging, not walking back (since that means you retracted something which I didn’t do), and scientists does it too. I didn’t say either one option is more likely, I told you there are many possibilities and then you insisted on calling several of them impossible not because any mechanics exclude it’s possibility but because you can’t see it. That’s plainly wrong. You can definitely argue it’s improbable, but you don’t get to call it impossible without proving it impossible.
"""
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+body: "You’re conflating things. We have no reason to argue those are true with any certainty, but we still can’t exclude the possibility. It’s the difference of “justified belief” vs coherent theory. Physics have had a ton of theories postulated without evidence where decades later one option was proven true and many others proven false. Under your assumption you shouldn’t have made that theory before it could be tested."
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#1556
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+title: "Both beliefs are fine, but please realize the hypocrisy"
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+body: "I’m not arguing any specific purpose of controlling a simulation in these ways, just that the arguments saying it wouldn’t happen are too weak. A multipurpose simulation (imagine one shared by many different teams of simulation researchers) could plausibly be used like this where they mess with just about anything and then reset. Doesn’t mean it’s likely, just that it’s unreasonable to exclude the possibility"
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+body: """
You’re conflating “possible” with “probable”, and refusing to address possibilities you don’t have proof of.\n
\n
When higgs bosons were predicted they were untestable. When gravity waves were predicted they were untestable. When black hole rings were predicted they were untestable.\n
\n
Then we discovered how to build the sensors and instruments to test them.\n
\n
You’re saying those scientists should’ve dropped their ideas because at that point it was still impossible to test or falsify.\n
\n
What scientists do instead is to develop many different alternative theories, then design tests and experiments, and then once data is in *then* they decide what do believe about the theories based on what the could prove or not.\n
\n
Edit: why are people like this so aggressively wrong in the dumbest ways… Not only did they pick only one of 3 examples of mine to attack and ignoring the rest, they also did so maximally incorrectly all while failing to understand the consequences of their own policy of rejecting anything you don’t know how to test.\n
\n
The core of my argument is really just “sometimes scientists works on stuff nobody knows how to test, because maybe they’ll find out how in the future”, and this dude’s argument is essentially “if you don’t know how to test something it’s literally impossible for it to be true and therefore it shall be rejected, but also scientists always knows the path forward and therefore I don’t have to reevaluate my understanding of science”
"""
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+body: "Besides the fact that it wasn’t actually known if those tests would work, there’s also hypothetical tests for simulation theory (eg. testing for pixelated resolution of spacetime, plus endless “consistency tests”) so doesn’t that make it all the same thing anyway? You’re making much too strong assumptions."
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2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2462
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+body: """
Physicists tends to work with precision in decimals, not multiple orders of magnitude. They didn’t know it would be there either, all they knew is the theory they had would be simpler if it was there than not.\n
\n
Your quote from the website is a bad attempt at backdating current knowledge from very recent research and experiments to the original discoverers\n
\n
[scientificamerican.com/…/how-the-higgs-boson-ruin…](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-the-higgs-boson-ruined-peter-higgss-life/)\n
\n
> The discovery of the Higgs boson came nearly 50 years after Higgs’s prediction, and he said he never expected it to be found in his lifetime.\n
\n
It’s not even known if there’s more than one Higgs boson, because the theory allows multiple variants.\n
\n
Look at that graph of how many different variants would decay differently;\n
\n
[home.cern/…/higgs-boson-revealing-natures-secrets](https://home.cern/news/series/lhc-physics-ten/higgs-boson-revealing-natures-secrets)\n
\n
They had thousands of different predictions and couldn’t know which were right until the data was in.\n
\n
> If, due to its mass, they could only observe the interplay between the Higgs boson on one hand and the W and Z bosons on the other, the puzzle of the fermion masses would remain unsolved. Discovering the particle at a convenient mass was an unexpected kindness from nature. If it were slightly more massive, above 180 GeV or so, the options to study it at the time of its discovery would have been more limited.\n
\n
> The variety of available transformation products means that data from the individual channels can be combined together through sophisticated techniques to build up a greater understanding of the particle. “Doing so is not trivial,” says Giovanni Petrucciani, co-convener of the Higgs analysis group in CMS. “You have to treat the uncertainties similarly across all the individual analyses and interpret the results carefully, once you have applied complicated statistical machinery.” Combining data from the transformation of the Higgs boson to pairs of Z bosons and pairs of photons allowed ATLAS and CMS to discover the Higgs boson in 2012.\n
\n
It was legitimately not known if we could find it. It could have been big enough that LHC would’ve failed, and then it could have taken us 50 more years to build a collider large enough (mostly due to cost, but still)\n
\n
In fact they’re only *mostly* sure still\n
\n
> Yet, the Brout-Englert-Higgs mechanism remains among the least-understood phenomena in the Standard Model. Indeed, while scientists have dropped the “-like” suffix and have understood the Higgs boson remarkably since its discovery, they still do not know if what was observed is the Higgs boson predicted by the Standard Model.\n
\n
You don’t even understand what I’m saying, how can you accuse me of walking back?\n
\n
You keep making unjustified claims even now. What if a simulator knows what you’re looking at and simply don’t mess with that? Clearly not impossible. Implausible? Absolutely, AND I KEEP SAYING SO, there’s no reason to believe it’s happening, *and yet it’s possible*. Your inability to comprehend doesn’t change the meaning of my statements.\n
\n
Your persistence in calling it meaningless because it’s unfalsifiable *with no further context* is equivalent to you calling most theoretical physics meaningless. A ton of theories like string theory is by your standard equally unfalsifiable and therefore we shall declare it impossible and stop investigating.\n
\n
Instead we develop endless hypothetical scenarios specifically so we can look for evidence when new tools for investigating fundamental physics become available.
"""
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+body: """
Found via Wikipedia. From the 70’s:\n
\n
> We should perhaps finish our paper with an apology and a caution. We apologize to experimentalists for having no idea what is the mass of the Higgs boson, …, and for not being sure of its couplings to other particles, except that they are probably all very small. For these reasons, we do not want to encourage big experimental searches for the Higgs boson, but we do feel that people doing experiments vulnerable to the Higgs boson should know how it may turn up.\n
\n
— John R. Ellis, Mary K. Gaillard, and Dimitri V. Nanopoulos,\n
\n
> One of the problems was that at the time there was almost no clue to the mass of the Higgs boson. Theoretical considerations left open a very wide range somewhere between 10 GeV/c2[13] and 1000 GeV/c2[14] with no real indication where to look.[1]\n
\n
So you’re literally as wrong as you could be. It wasn’t until what once was a wild hypothesis had been explored more that they could start to make better predictions around where it might be, decades later, and after tests narrowing down where it wasn’t.\n
\n
I didn’t “walk back” either. Exploring multiple possibilities is called hedging, not walking back (since that means you retracted something which I didn’t do), and scientists does it too. I didn’t say either one option is more likely, I told you there are many possibilities and then you insisted on calling several of them impossible not because any mechanics exclude it’s possibility but because you can’t see it. That’s plainly wrong. You can definitely argue it’s improbable, but you don’t get to call it impossible without proving it impossible.
"""
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0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1561
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+body: "You’re conflating things. We have no reason to argue those are true with any certainty, but we still can’t exclude the possibility. It’s the difference of “justified belief” vs coherent theory. Physics have had a ton of theories postulated without evidence where decades later one option was proven true and many others proven false. Under your assumption you shouldn’t have made that theory before it could be tested."
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…2
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+body: "There’s an argument that because some of the physical limits we see around entropy density (due to singularities) are proportional to the area of a sphere around the volume, together with math indicating it’s possible to translate physics in a 3D volume to a 2D surface, the whole universe might be a projection from the 2D surface of a sphere"
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|
Show voter details
|
51 |
DENIED
|
edit
|
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1556
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+slug: "Both-beliefs-are-fine-but-please-realize-the-hypocrisy"
+title: "Both beliefs are fine, but please realize the hypocrisy"
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5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1556}
6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1697
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+body: "I’m not arguing any specific purpose of controlling a simulation in these ways, just that the arguments saying it wouldn’t happen are too weak. A multipurpose simulation (imagine one shared by many different teams of simulation researchers) could plausibly be used like this where they mess with just about anything and then reset. Doesn’t mean it’s likely, just that it’s unreasonable to exclude the possibility"
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4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1795
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+body: """
You’re conflating “possible” with “probable”, and refusing to address possibilities you don’t have proof of.\n
\n
When higgs bosons were predicted they were untestable. When gravity waves were predicted they were untestable. When black hole rings were predicted they were untestable.\n
\n
Then we discovered how to build the sensors and instruments to test them.\n
\n
You’re saying those scientists should’ve dropped their ideas because at that point it was still impossible to test or falsify.\n
\n
What scientists do instead is to develop many different alternative theories, then design tests and experiments, and then once data is in *then* they decide what do believe about the theories based on what the could prove or not.\n
\n
Edit: why are people like this so aggressively wrong in the dumbest ways… Not only did they pick only one of 3 examples of mine to attack and ignoring the rest, they also did so maximally incorrectly all while failing to understand the consequences of their own policy of rejecting anything you don’t know how to test.\n
\n
The core of my argument is really just “sometimes scientists works on stuff nobody knows how to test, because maybe they’ll find out how in the future”, and this dude’s argument is essentially “if you don’t know how to test something it’s literally impossible for it to be true and therefore it shall be rejected, but also scientists always knows the path forward and therefore I don’t have to reevaluate my understanding of science”
"""
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3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1723
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+body: "Besides the fact that it wasn’t actually known if those tests would work, there’s also hypothetical tests for simulation theory (eg. testing for pixelated resolution of spacetime, plus endless “consistency tests”) so doesn’t that make it all the same thing anyway? You’re making much too strong assumptions."
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2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2462
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+body: """
Physicists tends to work with precision in decimals, not multiple orders of magnitude. They didn’t know it would be there either, all they knew is the theory they had would be simpler if it was there than not.\n
\n
Your quote from the website is a bad attempt at backdating current knowledge from very recent research and experiments to the original discoverers\n
\n
[scientificamerican.com/…/how-the-higgs-boson-ruin…](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-the-higgs-boson-ruined-peter-higgss-life/)\n
\n
> The discovery of the Higgs boson came nearly 50 years after Higgs’s prediction, and he said he never expected it to be found in his lifetime.\n
\n
It’s not even known if there’s more than one Higgs boson, because the theory allows multiple variants.\n
\n
Look at that graph of how many different variants would decay differently;\n
\n
[home.cern/…/higgs-boson-revealing-natures-secrets](https://home.cern/news/series/lhc-physics-ten/higgs-boson-revealing-natures-secrets)\n
\n
They had thousands of different predictions and couldn’t know which were right until the data was in.\n
\n
> If, due to its mass, they could only observe the interplay between the Higgs boson on one hand and the W and Z bosons on the other, the puzzle of the fermion masses would remain unsolved. Discovering the particle at a convenient mass was an unexpected kindness from nature. If it were slightly more massive, above 180 GeV or so, the options to study it at the time of its discovery would have been more limited.\n
\n
> The variety of available transformation products means that data from the individual channels can be combined together through sophisticated techniques to build up a greater understanding of the particle. “Doing so is not trivial,” says Giovanni Petrucciani, co-convener of the Higgs analysis group in CMS. “You have to treat the uncertainties similarly across all the individual analyses and interpret the results carefully, once you have applied complicated statistical machinery.” Combining data from the transformation of the Higgs boson to pairs of Z bosons and pairs of photons allowed ATLAS and CMS to discover the Higgs boson in 2012.\n
\n
It was legitimately not known if we could find it. It could have been big enough that LHC would’ve failed, and then it could have taken us 50 more years to build a collider large enough (mostly due to cost, but still)\n
\n
In fact they’re only *mostly* sure still\n
\n
> Yet, the Brout-Englert-Higgs mechanism remains among the least-understood phenomena in the Standard Model. Indeed, while scientists have dropped the “-like” suffix and have understood the Higgs boson remarkably since its discovery, they still do not know if what was observed is the Higgs boson predicted by the Standard Model.\n
\n
You don’t even understand what I’m saying, how can you accuse me of walking back?\n
\n
You keep making unjustified claims even now. What if a simulator knows what you’re looking at and simply don’t mess with that? Clearly not impossible. Implausible? Absolutely, AND I KEEP SAYING SO, there’s no reason to believe it’s happening, *and yet it’s possible*. Your inability to comprehend doesn’t change the meaning of my statements.\n
\n
Your persistence in calling it meaningless because it’s unfalsifiable *with no further context* is equivalent to you calling most theoretical physics meaningless. A ton of theories like string theory is by your standard equally unfalsifiable and therefore we shall declare it impossible and stop investigating.\n
\n
Instead we develop endless hypothetical scenarios specifically so we can look for evidence when new tools for investigating fundamental physics become available.
"""
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date: 2024-02-10 14:25:21.0 +01:00
}
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date: 2023-12-24 23:00:12.0 +01:00
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}
1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1715
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+body: """
Found via Wikipedia. From the 70’s:\n
\n
> We should perhaps finish our paper with an apology and a caution. We apologize to experimentalists for having no idea what is the mass of the Higgs boson, …, and for not being sure of its couplings to other particles, except that they are probably all very small. For these reasons, we do not want to encourage big experimental searches for the Higgs boson, but we do feel that people doing experiments vulnerable to the Higgs boson should know how it may turn up.\n
\n
— John R. Ellis, Mary K. Gaillard, and Dimitri V. Nanopoulos,\n
\n
> One of the problems was that at the time there was almost no clue to the mass of the Higgs boson. Theoretical considerations left open a very wide range somewhere between 10 GeV/c2[13] and 1000 GeV/c2[14] with no real indication where to look.[1]\n
\n
So you’re literally as wrong as you could be. It wasn’t until what once was a wild hypothesis had been explored more that they could start to make better predictions around where it might be, decades later, and after tests narrowing down where it wasn’t.\n
\n
I didn’t “walk back” either. Exploring multiple possibilities is called hedging, not walking back (since that means you retracted something which I didn’t do), and scientists does it too. I didn’t say either one option is more likely, I told you there are many possibilities and then you insisted on calling several of them impossible not because any mechanics exclude it’s possibility but because you can’t see it. That’s plainly wrong. You can definitely argue it’s improbable, but you don’t get to call it impossible without proving it impossible.
"""
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"@dpkonofa@lemmy.world"
"@ExLisper@linux.community"
"@Natanael@slrpnk.net"
]
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0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1561
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+body: "You’re conflating things. We have no reason to argue those are true with any certainty, but we still can’t exclude the possibility. It’s the difference of “justified belief” vs coherent theory. Physics have had a ton of theories postulated without evidence where decades later one option was proven true and many others proven false. Under your assumption you shouldn’t have made that theory before it could be tested."
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…2
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+body: "There’s an argument that because some of the physical limits we see around entropy density (due to singularities) are proportional to the area of a sphere around the volume, together with math indicating it’s possible to translate physics in a 3D volume to a 2D surface, the whole universe might be a projection from the 2D surface of a sphere"
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|
Show voter details
|
52 |
DENIED
|
moderate
|
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1556
+user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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+slug: "Both-beliefs-are-fine-but-please-realize-the-hypocrisy"
+title: "Both beliefs are fine, but please realize the hypocrisy"
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5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1556}
6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1697
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+body: "I’m not arguing any specific purpose of controlling a simulation in these ways, just that the arguments saying it wouldn’t happen are too weak. A multipurpose simulation (imagine one shared by many different teams of simulation researchers) could plausibly be used like this where they mess with just about anything and then reset. Doesn’t mean it’s likely, just that it’s unreasonable to exclude the possibility"
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4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1795
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+body: """
You’re conflating “possible” with “probable”, and refusing to address possibilities you don’t have proof of.\n
\n
When higgs bosons were predicted they were untestable. When gravity waves were predicted they were untestable. When black hole rings were predicted they were untestable.\n
\n
Then we discovered how to build the sensors and instruments to test them.\n
\n
You’re saying those scientists should’ve dropped their ideas because at that point it was still impossible to test or falsify.\n
\n
What scientists do instead is to develop many different alternative theories, then design tests and experiments, and then once data is in *then* they decide what do believe about the theories based on what the could prove or not.\n
\n
Edit: why are people like this so aggressively wrong in the dumbest ways… Not only did they pick only one of 3 examples of mine to attack and ignoring the rest, they also did so maximally incorrectly all while failing to understand the consequences of their own policy of rejecting anything you don’t know how to test.\n
\n
The core of my argument is really just “sometimes scientists works on stuff nobody knows how to test, because maybe they’ll find out how in the future”, and this dude’s argument is essentially “if you don’t know how to test something it’s literally impossible for it to be true and therefore it shall be rejected, but also scientists always knows the path forward and therefore I don’t have to reevaluate my understanding of science”
"""
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3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1723
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+body: "Besides the fact that it wasn’t actually known if those tests would work, there’s also hypothetical tests for simulation theory (eg. testing for pixelated resolution of spacetime, plus endless “consistency tests”) so doesn’t that make it all the same thing anyway? You’re making much too strong assumptions."
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2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2462
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Physicists tends to work with precision in decimals, not multiple orders of magnitude. They didn’t know it would be there either, all they knew is the theory they had would be simpler if it was there than not.\n
\n
Your quote from the website is a bad attempt at backdating current knowledge from very recent research and experiments to the original discoverers\n
\n
[scientificamerican.com/…/how-the-higgs-boson-ruin…](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-the-higgs-boson-ruined-peter-higgss-life/)\n
\n
> The discovery of the Higgs boson came nearly 50 years after Higgs’s prediction, and he said he never expected it to be found in his lifetime.\n
\n
It’s not even known if there’s more than one Higgs boson, because the theory allows multiple variants.\n
\n
Look at that graph of how many different variants would decay differently;\n
\n
[home.cern/…/higgs-boson-revealing-natures-secrets](https://home.cern/news/series/lhc-physics-ten/higgs-boson-revealing-natures-secrets)\n
\n
They had thousands of different predictions and couldn’t know which were right until the data was in.\n
\n
> If, due to its mass, they could only observe the interplay between the Higgs boson on one hand and the W and Z bosons on the other, the puzzle of the fermion masses would remain unsolved. Discovering the particle at a convenient mass was an unexpected kindness from nature. If it were slightly more massive, above 180 GeV or so, the options to study it at the time of its discovery would have been more limited.\n
\n
> The variety of available transformation products means that data from the individual channels can be combined together through sophisticated techniques to build up a greater understanding of the particle. “Doing so is not trivial,” says Giovanni Petrucciani, co-convener of the Higgs analysis group in CMS. “You have to treat the uncertainties similarly across all the individual analyses and interpret the results carefully, once you have applied complicated statistical machinery.” Combining data from the transformation of the Higgs boson to pairs of Z bosons and pairs of photons allowed ATLAS and CMS to discover the Higgs boson in 2012.\n
\n
It was legitimately not known if we could find it. It could have been big enough that LHC would’ve failed, and then it could have taken us 50 more years to build a collider large enough (mostly due to cost, but still)\n
\n
In fact they’re only *mostly* sure still\n
\n
> Yet, the Brout-Englert-Higgs mechanism remains among the least-understood phenomena in the Standard Model. Indeed, while scientists have dropped the “-like” suffix and have understood the Higgs boson remarkably since its discovery, they still do not know if what was observed is the Higgs boson predicted by the Standard Model.\n
\n
You don’t even understand what I’m saying, how can you accuse me of walking back?\n
\n
You keep making unjustified claims even now. What if a simulator knows what you’re looking at and simply don’t mess with that? Clearly not impossible. Implausible? Absolutely, AND I KEEP SAYING SO, there’s no reason to believe it’s happening, *and yet it’s possible*. Your inability to comprehend doesn’t change the meaning of my statements.\n
\n
Your persistence in calling it meaningless because it’s unfalsifiable *with no further context* is equivalent to you calling most theoretical physics meaningless. A ton of theories like string theory is by your standard equally unfalsifiable and therefore we shall declare it impossible and stop investigating.\n
\n
Instead we develop endless hypothetical scenarios specifically so we can look for evidence when new tools for investigating fundamental physics become available.
"""
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Found via Wikipedia. From the 70’s:\n
\n
> We should perhaps finish our paper with an apology and a caution. We apologize to experimentalists for having no idea what is the mass of the Higgs boson, …, and for not being sure of its couplings to other particles, except that they are probably all very small. For these reasons, we do not want to encourage big experimental searches for the Higgs boson, but we do feel that people doing experiments vulnerable to the Higgs boson should know how it may turn up.\n
\n
— John R. Ellis, Mary K. Gaillard, and Dimitri V. Nanopoulos,\n
\n
> One of the problems was that at the time there was almost no clue to the mass of the Higgs boson. Theoretical considerations left open a very wide range somewhere between 10 GeV/c2[13] and 1000 GeV/c2[14] with no real indication where to look.[1]\n
\n
So you’re literally as wrong as you could be. It wasn’t until what once was a wild hypothesis had been explored more that they could start to make better predictions around where it might be, decades later, and after tests narrowing down where it wasn’t.\n
\n
I didn’t “walk back” either. Exploring multiple possibilities is called hedging, not walking back (since that means you retracted something which I didn’t do), and scientists does it too. I didn’t say either one option is more likely, I told you there are many possibilities and then you insisted on calling several of them impossible not because any mechanics exclude it’s possibility but because you can’t see it. That’s plainly wrong. You can definitely argue it’s improbable, but you don’t get to call it impossible without proving it impossible.
"""
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+body: "You’re conflating things. We have no reason to argue those are true with any certainty, but we still can’t exclude the possibility. It’s the difference of “justified belief” vs coherent theory. Physics have had a ton of theories postulated without evidence where decades later one option was proven true and many others proven false. Under your assumption you shouldn’t have made that theory before it could be tested."
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You’re conflating “possible” with “probable”, and refusing to address possibilities you don’t have proof of.\n
\n
When higgs bosons were predicted they were untestable. When gravity waves were predicted they were untestable. When black hole rings were predicted they were untestable.\n
\n
Then we discovered how to build the sensors and instruments to test them.\n
\n
You’re saying those scientists should’ve dropped their ideas because at that point it was still impossible to test or falsify.\n
\n
What scientists do instead is to develop many different alternative theories, then design tests and experiments, and then once data is in *then* they decide what do believe about the theories based on what the could prove or not.\n
\n
Edit: why are people like this so aggressively wrong in the dumbest ways… Not only did they pick only one of 3 examples of mine to attack and ignoring the rest, they also did so maximally incorrectly all while failing to understand the consequences of their own policy of rejecting anything you don’t know how to test.\n
\n
The core of my argument is really just “sometimes scientists works on stuff nobody knows how to test, because maybe they’ll find out how in the future”, and this dude’s argument is essentially “if you don’t know how to test something it’s literally impossible for it to be true and therefore it shall be rejected, but also scientists always knows the path forward and therefore I don’t have to reevaluate my understanding of science”
"""
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3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1723
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+body: "Besides the fact that it wasn’t actually known if those tests would work, there’s also hypothetical tests for simulation theory (eg. testing for pixelated resolution of spacetime, plus endless “consistency tests”) so doesn’t that make it all the same thing anyway? You’re making much too strong assumptions."
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2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2462
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+body: """
Physicists tends to work with precision in decimals, not multiple orders of magnitude. They didn’t know it would be there either, all they knew is the theory they had would be simpler if it was there than not.\n
\n
Your quote from the website is a bad attempt at backdating current knowledge from very recent research and experiments to the original discoverers\n
\n
[scientificamerican.com/…/how-the-higgs-boson-ruin…](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-the-higgs-boson-ruined-peter-higgss-life/)\n
\n
> The discovery of the Higgs boson came nearly 50 years after Higgs’s prediction, and he said he never expected it to be found in his lifetime.\n
\n
It’s not even known if there’s more than one Higgs boson, because the theory allows multiple variants.\n
\n
Look at that graph of how many different variants would decay differently;\n
\n
[home.cern/…/higgs-boson-revealing-natures-secrets](https://home.cern/news/series/lhc-physics-ten/higgs-boson-revealing-natures-secrets)\n
\n
They had thousands of different predictions and couldn’t know which were right until the data was in.\n
\n
> If, due to its mass, they could only observe the interplay between the Higgs boson on one hand and the W and Z bosons on the other, the puzzle of the fermion masses would remain unsolved. Discovering the particle at a convenient mass was an unexpected kindness from nature. If it were slightly more massive, above 180 GeV or so, the options to study it at the time of its discovery would have been more limited.\n
\n
> The variety of available transformation products means that data from the individual channels can be combined together through sophisticated techniques to build up a greater understanding of the particle. “Doing so is not trivial,” says Giovanni Petrucciani, co-convener of the Higgs analysis group in CMS. “You have to treat the uncertainties similarly across all the individual analyses and interpret the results carefully, once you have applied complicated statistical machinery.” Combining data from the transformation of the Higgs boson to pairs of Z bosons and pairs of photons allowed ATLAS and CMS to discover the Higgs boson in 2012.\n
\n
It was legitimately not known if we could find it. It could have been big enough that LHC would’ve failed, and then it could have taken us 50 more years to build a collider large enough (mostly due to cost, but still)\n
\n
In fact they’re only *mostly* sure still\n
\n
> Yet, the Brout-Englert-Higgs mechanism remains among the least-understood phenomena in the Standard Model. Indeed, while scientists have dropped the “-like” suffix and have understood the Higgs boson remarkably since its discovery, they still do not know if what was observed is the Higgs boson predicted by the Standard Model.\n
\n
You don’t even understand what I’m saying, how can you accuse me of walking back?\n
\n
You keep making unjustified claims even now. What if a simulator knows what you’re looking at and simply don’t mess with that? Clearly not impossible. Implausible? Absolutely, AND I KEEP SAYING SO, there’s no reason to believe it’s happening, *and yet it’s possible*. Your inability to comprehend doesn’t change the meaning of my statements.\n
\n
Your persistence in calling it meaningless because it’s unfalsifiable *with no further context* is equivalent to you calling most theoretical physics meaningless. A ton of theories like string theory is by your standard equally unfalsifiable and therefore we shall declare it impossible and stop investigating.\n
\n
Instead we develop endless hypothetical scenarios specifically so we can look for evidence when new tools for investigating fundamental physics become available.
"""
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1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1715
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+body: """
Found via Wikipedia. From the 70’s:\n
\n
> We should perhaps finish our paper with an apology and a caution. We apologize to experimentalists for having no idea what is the mass of the Higgs boson, …, and for not being sure of its couplings to other particles, except that they are probably all very small. For these reasons, we do not want to encourage big experimental searches for the Higgs boson, but we do feel that people doing experiments vulnerable to the Higgs boson should know how it may turn up.\n
\n
— John R. Ellis, Mary K. Gaillard, and Dimitri V. Nanopoulos,\n
\n
> One of the problems was that at the time there was almost no clue to the mass of the Higgs boson. Theoretical considerations left open a very wide range somewhere between 10 GeV/c2[13] and 1000 GeV/c2[14] with no real indication where to look.[1]\n
\n
So you’re literally as wrong as you could be. It wasn’t until what once was a wild hypothesis had been explored more that they could start to make better predictions around where it might be, decades later, and after tests narrowing down where it wasn’t.\n
\n
I didn’t “walk back” either. Exploring multiple possibilities is called hedging, not walking back (since that means you retracted something which I didn’t do), and scientists does it too. I didn’t say either one option is more likely, I told you there are many possibilities and then you insisted on calling several of them impossible not because any mechanics exclude it’s possibility but because you can’t see it. That’s plainly wrong. You can definitely argue it’s improbable, but you don’t get to call it impossible without proving it impossible.
"""
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0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1561
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+body: "You’re conflating things. We have no reason to argue those are true with any certainty, but we still can’t exclude the possibility. It’s the difference of “justified belief” vs coherent theory. Physics have had a ton of theories postulated without evidence where decades later one option was proven true and many others proven false. Under your assumption you shouldn’t have made that theory before it could be tested."
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+body: "I’m not arguing any specific purpose of controlling a simulation in these ways, just that the arguments saying it wouldn’t happen are too weak. A multipurpose simulation (imagine one shared by many different teams of simulation researchers) could plausibly be used like this where they mess with just about anything and then reset. Doesn’t mean it’s likely, just that it’s unreasonable to exclude the possibility"
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} |
|
Show voter details
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55 |
DENIED
|
edit
|
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1697
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+slug: "Both-beliefs-are-fine-but-please-realize-the-hypocrisy"
+title: "Both beliefs are fine, but please realize the hypocrisy"
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5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1556
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+body: "There’s an argument that because some of the physical limits we see around entropy density (due to singularities) are proportional to the area of a sphere around the volume, together with math indicating it’s possible to translate physics in a 3D volume to a 2D surface, the whole universe might be a projection from the 2D surface of a sphere"
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6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1697}
4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1795
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+body: """
You’re conflating “possible” with “probable”, and refusing to address possibilities you don’t have proof of.\n
\n
When higgs bosons were predicted they were untestable. When gravity waves were predicted they were untestable. When black hole rings were predicted they were untestable.\n
\n
Then we discovered how to build the sensors and instruments to test them.\n
\n
You’re saying those scientists should’ve dropped their ideas because at that point it was still impossible to test or falsify.\n
\n
What scientists do instead is to develop many different alternative theories, then design tests and experiments, and then once data is in *then* they decide what do believe about the theories based on what the could prove or not.\n
\n
Edit: why are people like this so aggressively wrong in the dumbest ways… Not only did they pick only one of 3 examples of mine to attack and ignoring the rest, they also did so maximally incorrectly all while failing to understand the consequences of their own policy of rejecting anything you don’t know how to test.\n
\n
The core of my argument is really just “sometimes scientists works on stuff nobody knows how to test, because maybe they’ll find out how in the future”, and this dude’s argument is essentially “if you don’t know how to test something it’s literally impossible for it to be true and therefore it shall be rejected, but also scientists always knows the path forward and therefore I don’t have to reevaluate my understanding of science”
"""
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+body: "Besides the fact that it wasn’t actually known if those tests would work, there’s also hypothetical tests for simulation theory (eg. testing for pixelated resolution of spacetime, plus endless “consistency tests”) so doesn’t that make it all the same thing anyway? You’re making much too strong assumptions."
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+body: """
Physicists tends to work with precision in decimals, not multiple orders of magnitude. They didn’t know it would be there either, all they knew is the theory they had would be simpler if it was there than not.\n
\n
Your quote from the website is a bad attempt at backdating current knowledge from very recent research and experiments to the original discoverers\n
\n
[scientificamerican.com/…/how-the-higgs-boson-ruin…](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-the-higgs-boson-ruined-peter-higgss-life/)\n
\n
> The discovery of the Higgs boson came nearly 50 years after Higgs’s prediction, and he said he never expected it to be found in his lifetime.\n
\n
It’s not even known if there’s more than one Higgs boson, because the theory allows multiple variants.\n
\n
Look at that graph of how many different variants would decay differently;\n
\n
[home.cern/…/higgs-boson-revealing-natures-secrets](https://home.cern/news/series/lhc-physics-ten/higgs-boson-revealing-natures-secrets)\n
\n
They had thousands of different predictions and couldn’t know which were right until the data was in.\n
\n
> If, due to its mass, they could only observe the interplay between the Higgs boson on one hand and the W and Z bosons on the other, the puzzle of the fermion masses would remain unsolved. Discovering the particle at a convenient mass was an unexpected kindness from nature. If it were slightly more massive, above 180 GeV or so, the options to study it at the time of its discovery would have been more limited.\n
\n
> The variety of available transformation products means that data from the individual channels can be combined together through sophisticated techniques to build up a greater understanding of the particle. “Doing so is not trivial,” says Giovanni Petrucciani, co-convener of the Higgs analysis group in CMS. “You have to treat the uncertainties similarly across all the individual analyses and interpret the results carefully, once you have applied complicated statistical machinery.” Combining data from the transformation of the Higgs boson to pairs of Z bosons and pairs of photons allowed ATLAS and CMS to discover the Higgs boson in 2012.\n
\n
It was legitimately not known if we could find it. It could have been big enough that LHC would’ve failed, and then it could have taken us 50 more years to build a collider large enough (mostly due to cost, but still)\n
\n
In fact they’re only *mostly* sure still\n
\n
> Yet, the Brout-Englert-Higgs mechanism remains among the least-understood phenomena in the Standard Model. Indeed, while scientists have dropped the “-like” suffix and have understood the Higgs boson remarkably since its discovery, they still do not know if what was observed is the Higgs boson predicted by the Standard Model.\n
\n
You don’t even understand what I’m saying, how can you accuse me of walking back?\n
\n
You keep making unjustified claims even now. What if a simulator knows what you’re looking at and simply don’t mess with that? Clearly not impossible. Implausible? Absolutely, AND I KEEP SAYING SO, there’s no reason to believe it’s happening, *and yet it’s possible*. Your inability to comprehend doesn’t change the meaning of my statements.\n
\n
Your persistence in calling it meaningless because it’s unfalsifiable *with no further context* is equivalent to you calling most theoretical physics meaningless. A ton of theories like string theory is by your standard equally unfalsifiable and therefore we shall declare it impossible and stop investigating.\n
\n
Instead we develop endless hypothetical scenarios specifically so we can look for evidence when new tools for investigating fundamental physics become available.
"""
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+body: """
Found via Wikipedia. From the 70’s:\n
\n
> We should perhaps finish our paper with an apology and a caution. We apologize to experimentalists for having no idea what is the mass of the Higgs boson, …, and for not being sure of its couplings to other particles, except that they are probably all very small. For these reasons, we do not want to encourage big experimental searches for the Higgs boson, but we do feel that people doing experiments vulnerable to the Higgs boson should know how it may turn up.\n
\n
— John R. Ellis, Mary K. Gaillard, and Dimitri V. Nanopoulos,\n
\n
> One of the problems was that at the time there was almost no clue to the mass of the Higgs boson. Theoretical considerations left open a very wide range somewhere between 10 GeV/c2[13] and 1000 GeV/c2[14] with no real indication where to look.[1]\n
\n
So you’re literally as wrong as you could be. It wasn’t until what once was a wild hypothesis had been explored more that they could start to make better predictions around where it might be, decades later, and after tests narrowing down where it wasn’t.\n
\n
I didn’t “walk back” either. Exploring multiple possibilities is called hedging, not walking back (since that means you retracted something which I didn’t do), and scientists does it too. I didn’t say either one option is more likely, I told you there are many possibilities and then you insisted on calling several of them impossible not because any mechanics exclude it’s possibility but because you can’t see it. That’s plainly wrong. You can definitely argue it’s improbable, but you don’t get to call it impossible without proving it impossible.
"""
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+body: "You’re conflating things. We have no reason to argue those are true with any certainty, but we still can’t exclude the possibility. It’s the difference of “justified belief” vs coherent theory. Physics have had a ton of theories postulated without evidence where decades later one option was proven true and many others proven false. Under your assumption you shouldn’t have made that theory before it could be tested."
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+body: "I’m not arguing any specific purpose of controlling a simulation in these ways, just that the arguments saying it wouldn’t happen are too weak. A multipurpose simulation (imagine one shared by many different teams of simulation researchers) could plausibly be used like this where they mess with just about anything and then reset. Doesn’t mean it’s likely, just that it’s unreasonable to exclude the possibility"
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|
Show voter details
|
56 |
DENIED
|
moderate
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#1697
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+slug: "Both-beliefs-are-fine-but-please-realize-the-hypocrisy"
+title: "Both beliefs are fine, but please realize the hypocrisy"
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+body: "There’s an argument that because some of the physical limits we see around entropy density (due to singularities) are proportional to the area of a sphere around the volume, together with math indicating it’s possible to translate physics in a 3D volume to a 2D surface, the whole universe might be a projection from the 2D surface of a sphere"
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6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1697}
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+body: """
You’re conflating “possible” with “probable”, and refusing to address possibilities you don’t have proof of.\n
\n
When higgs bosons were predicted they were untestable. When gravity waves were predicted they were untestable. When black hole rings were predicted they were untestable.\n
\n
Then we discovered how to build the sensors and instruments to test them.\n
\n
You’re saying those scientists should’ve dropped their ideas because at that point it was still impossible to test or falsify.\n
\n
What scientists do instead is to develop many different alternative theories, then design tests and experiments, and then once data is in *then* they decide what do believe about the theories based on what the could prove or not.\n
\n
Edit: why are people like this so aggressively wrong in the dumbest ways… Not only did they pick only one of 3 examples of mine to attack and ignoring the rest, they also did so maximally incorrectly all while failing to understand the consequences of their own policy of rejecting anything you don’t know how to test.\n
\n
The core of my argument is really just “sometimes scientists works on stuff nobody knows how to test, because maybe they’ll find out how in the future”, and this dude’s argument is essentially “if you don’t know how to test something it’s literally impossible for it to be true and therefore it shall be rejected, but also scientists always knows the path forward and therefore I don’t have to reevaluate my understanding of science”
"""
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+body: "Besides the fact that it wasn’t actually known if those tests would work, there’s also hypothetical tests for simulation theory (eg. testing for pixelated resolution of spacetime, plus endless “consistency tests”) so doesn’t that make it all the same thing anyway? You’re making much too strong assumptions."
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2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2462
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+body: """
Physicists tends to work with precision in decimals, not multiple orders of magnitude. They didn’t know it would be there either, all they knew is the theory they had would be simpler if it was there than not.\n
\n
Your quote from the website is a bad attempt at backdating current knowledge from very recent research and experiments to the original discoverers\n
\n
[scientificamerican.com/…/how-the-higgs-boson-ruin…](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-the-higgs-boson-ruined-peter-higgss-life/)\n
\n
> The discovery of the Higgs boson came nearly 50 years after Higgs’s prediction, and he said he never expected it to be found in his lifetime.\n
\n
It’s not even known if there’s more than one Higgs boson, because the theory allows multiple variants.\n
\n
Look at that graph of how many different variants would decay differently;\n
\n
[home.cern/…/higgs-boson-revealing-natures-secrets](https://home.cern/news/series/lhc-physics-ten/higgs-boson-revealing-natures-secrets)\n
\n
They had thousands of different predictions and couldn’t know which were right until the data was in.\n
\n
> If, due to its mass, they could only observe the interplay between the Higgs boson on one hand and the W and Z bosons on the other, the puzzle of the fermion masses would remain unsolved. Discovering the particle at a convenient mass was an unexpected kindness from nature. If it were slightly more massive, above 180 GeV or so, the options to study it at the time of its discovery would have been more limited.\n
\n
> The variety of available transformation products means that data from the individual channels can be combined together through sophisticated techniques to build up a greater understanding of the particle. “Doing so is not trivial,” says Giovanni Petrucciani, co-convener of the Higgs analysis group in CMS. “You have to treat the uncertainties similarly across all the individual analyses and interpret the results carefully, once you have applied complicated statistical machinery.” Combining data from the transformation of the Higgs boson to pairs of Z bosons and pairs of photons allowed ATLAS and CMS to discover the Higgs boson in 2012.\n
\n
It was legitimately not known if we could find it. It could have been big enough that LHC would’ve failed, and then it could have taken us 50 more years to build a collider large enough (mostly due to cost, but still)\n
\n
In fact they’re only *mostly* sure still\n
\n
> Yet, the Brout-Englert-Higgs mechanism remains among the least-understood phenomena in the Standard Model. Indeed, while scientists have dropped the “-like” suffix and have understood the Higgs boson remarkably since its discovery, they still do not know if what was observed is the Higgs boson predicted by the Standard Model.\n
\n
You don’t even understand what I’m saying, how can you accuse me of walking back?\n
\n
You keep making unjustified claims even now. What if a simulator knows what you’re looking at and simply don’t mess with that? Clearly not impossible. Implausible? Absolutely, AND I KEEP SAYING SO, there’s no reason to believe it’s happening, *and yet it’s possible*. Your inability to comprehend doesn’t change the meaning of my statements.\n
\n
Your persistence in calling it meaningless because it’s unfalsifiable *with no further context* is equivalent to you calling most theoretical physics meaningless. A ton of theories like string theory is by your standard equally unfalsifiable and therefore we shall declare it impossible and stop investigating.\n
\n
Instead we develop endless hypothetical scenarios specifically so we can look for evidence when new tools for investigating fundamental physics become available.
"""
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1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1715
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+body: """
Found via Wikipedia. From the 70’s:\n
\n
> We should perhaps finish our paper with an apology and a caution. We apologize to experimentalists for having no idea what is the mass of the Higgs boson, …, and for not being sure of its couplings to other particles, except that they are probably all very small. For these reasons, we do not want to encourage big experimental searches for the Higgs boson, but we do feel that people doing experiments vulnerable to the Higgs boson should know how it may turn up.\n
\n
— John R. Ellis, Mary K. Gaillard, and Dimitri V. Nanopoulos,\n
\n
> One of the problems was that at the time there was almost no clue to the mass of the Higgs boson. Theoretical considerations left open a very wide range somewhere between 10 GeV/c2[13] and 1000 GeV/c2[14] with no real indication where to look.[1]\n
\n
So you’re literally as wrong as you could be. It wasn’t until what once was a wild hypothesis had been explored more that they could start to make better predictions around where it might be, decades later, and after tests narrowing down where it wasn’t.\n
\n
I didn’t “walk back” either. Exploring multiple possibilities is called hedging, not walking back (since that means you retracted something which I didn’t do), and scientists does it too. I didn’t say either one option is more likely, I told you there are many possibilities and then you insisted on calling several of them impossible not because any mechanics exclude it’s possibility but because you can’t see it. That’s plainly wrong. You can definitely argue it’s improbable, but you don’t get to call it impossible without proving it impossible.
"""
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+body: "You’re conflating things. We have no reason to argue those are true with any certainty, but we still can’t exclude the possibility. It’s the difference of “justified belief” vs coherent theory. Physics have had a ton of theories postulated without evidence where decades later one option was proven true and many others proven false. Under your assumption you shouldn’t have made that theory before it could be tested."
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+body: "I’m not arguing any specific purpose of controlling a simulation in these ways, just that the arguments saying it wouldn’t happen are too weak. A multipurpose simulation (imagine one shared by many different teams of simulation researchers) could plausibly be used like this where they mess with just about anything and then reset. Doesn’t mean it’s likely, just that it’s unreasonable to exclude the possibility"
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+body: "There’s an argument that because some of the physical limits we see around entropy density (due to singularities) are proportional to the area of a sphere around the volume, together with math indicating it’s possible to translate physics in a 3D volume to a 2D surface, the whole universe might be a projection from the 2D surface of a sphere"
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+body: "I’m not arguing any specific purpose of controlling a simulation in these ways, just that the arguments saying it wouldn’t happen are too weak. A multipurpose simulation (imagine one shared by many different teams of simulation researchers) could plausibly be used like this where they mess with just about anything and then reset. Doesn’t mean it’s likely, just that it’s unreasonable to exclude the possibility"
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+body: "Besides the fact that it wasn’t actually known if those tests would work, there’s also hypothetical tests for simulation theory (eg. testing for pixelated resolution of spacetime, plus endless “consistency tests”) so doesn’t that make it all the same thing anyway? You’re making much too strong assumptions."
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+body: """
Physicists tends to work with precision in decimals, not multiple orders of magnitude. They didn’t know it would be there either, all they knew is the theory they had would be simpler if it was there than not.\n
\n
Your quote from the website is a bad attempt at backdating current knowledge from very recent research and experiments to the original discoverers\n
\n
[scientificamerican.com/…/how-the-higgs-boson-ruin…](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-the-higgs-boson-ruined-peter-higgss-life/)\n
\n
> The discovery of the Higgs boson came nearly 50 years after Higgs’s prediction, and he said he never expected it to be found in his lifetime.\n
\n
It’s not even known if there’s more than one Higgs boson, because the theory allows multiple variants.\n
\n
Look at that graph of how many different variants would decay differently;\n
\n
[home.cern/…/higgs-boson-revealing-natures-secrets](https://home.cern/news/series/lhc-physics-ten/higgs-boson-revealing-natures-secrets)\n
\n
They had thousands of different predictions and couldn’t know which were right until the data was in.\n
\n
> If, due to its mass, they could only observe the interplay between the Higgs boson on one hand and the W and Z bosons on the other, the puzzle of the fermion masses would remain unsolved. Discovering the particle at a convenient mass was an unexpected kindness from nature. If it were slightly more massive, above 180 GeV or so, the options to study it at the time of its discovery would have been more limited.\n
\n
> The variety of available transformation products means that data from the individual channels can be combined together through sophisticated techniques to build up a greater understanding of the particle. “Doing so is not trivial,” says Giovanni Petrucciani, co-convener of the Higgs analysis group in CMS. “You have to treat the uncertainties similarly across all the individual analyses and interpret the results carefully, once you have applied complicated statistical machinery.” Combining data from the transformation of the Higgs boson to pairs of Z bosons and pairs of photons allowed ATLAS and CMS to discover the Higgs boson in 2012.\n
\n
It was legitimately not known if we could find it. It could have been big enough that LHC would’ve failed, and then it could have taken us 50 more years to build a collider large enough (mostly due to cost, but still)\n
\n
In fact they’re only *mostly* sure still\n
\n
> Yet, the Brout-Englert-Higgs mechanism remains among the least-understood phenomena in the Standard Model. Indeed, while scientists have dropped the “-like” suffix and have understood the Higgs boson remarkably since its discovery, they still do not know if what was observed is the Higgs boson predicted by the Standard Model.\n
\n
You don’t even understand what I’m saying, how can you accuse me of walking back?\n
\n
You keep making unjustified claims even now. What if a simulator knows what you’re looking at and simply don’t mess with that? Clearly not impossible. Implausible? Absolutely, AND I KEEP SAYING SO, there’s no reason to believe it’s happening, *and yet it’s possible*. Your inability to comprehend doesn’t change the meaning of my statements.\n
\n
Your persistence in calling it meaningless because it’s unfalsifiable *with no further context* is equivalent to you calling most theoretical physics meaningless. A ton of theories like string theory is by your standard equally unfalsifiable and therefore we shall declare it impossible and stop investigating.\n
\n
Instead we develop endless hypothetical scenarios specifically so we can look for evidence when new tools for investigating fundamental physics become available.
"""
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+body: """
Found via Wikipedia. From the 70’s:\n
\n
> We should perhaps finish our paper with an apology and a caution. We apologize to experimentalists for having no idea what is the mass of the Higgs boson, …, and for not being sure of its couplings to other particles, except that they are probably all very small. For these reasons, we do not want to encourage big experimental searches for the Higgs boson, but we do feel that people doing experiments vulnerable to the Higgs boson should know how it may turn up.\n
\n
— John R. Ellis, Mary K. Gaillard, and Dimitri V. Nanopoulos,\n
\n
> One of the problems was that at the time there was almost no clue to the mass of the Higgs boson. Theoretical considerations left open a very wide range somewhere between 10 GeV/c2[13] and 1000 GeV/c2[14] with no real indication where to look.[1]\n
\n
So you’re literally as wrong as you could be. It wasn’t until what once was a wild hypothesis had been explored more that they could start to make better predictions around where it might be, decades later, and after tests narrowing down where it wasn’t.\n
\n
I didn’t “walk back” either. Exploring multiple possibilities is called hedging, not walking back (since that means you retracted something which I didn’t do), and scientists does it too. I didn’t say either one option is more likely, I told you there are many possibilities and then you insisted on calling several of them impossible not because any mechanics exclude it’s possibility but because you can’t see it. That’s plainly wrong. You can definitely argue it’s improbable, but you don’t get to call it impossible without proving it impossible.
"""
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+body: "You’re conflating things. We have no reason to argue those are true with any certainty, but we still can’t exclude the possibility. It’s the difference of “justified belief” vs coherent theory. Physics have had a ton of theories postulated without evidence where decades later one option was proven true and many others proven false. Under your assumption you shouldn’t have made that theory before it could be tested."
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+body: """
You’re conflating “possible” with “probable”, and refusing to address possibilities you don’t have proof of.\n
\n
When higgs bosons were predicted they were untestable. When gravity waves were predicted they were untestable. When black hole rings were predicted they were untestable.\n
\n
Then we discovered how to build the sensors and instruments to test them.\n
\n
You’re saying those scientists should’ve dropped their ideas because at that point it was still impossible to test or falsify.\n
\n
What scientists do instead is to develop many different alternative theories, then design tests and experiments, and then once data is in *then* they decide what do believe about the theories based on what the could prove or not.\n
\n
Edit: why are people like this so aggressively wrong in the dumbest ways… Not only did they pick only one of 3 examples of mine to attack and ignoring the rest, they also did so maximally incorrectly all while failing to understand the consequences of their own policy of rejecting anything you don’t know how to test.\n
\n
The core of my argument is really just “sometimes scientists works on stuff nobody knows how to test, because maybe they’ll find out how in the future”, and this dude’s argument is essentially “if you don’t know how to test something it’s literally impossible for it to be true and therefore it shall be rejected, but also scientists always knows the path forward and therefore I don’t have to reevaluate my understanding of science”
"""
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|
Show voter details
|
59 |
DENIED
|
edit
|
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1795
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+slug: "Both-beliefs-are-fine-but-please-realize-the-hypocrisy"
+title: "Both beliefs are fine, but please realize the hypocrisy"
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5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1556
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+body: "There’s an argument that because some of the physical limits we see around entropy density (due to singularities) are proportional to the area of a sphere around the volume, together with math indicating it’s possible to translate physics in a 3D volume to a 2D surface, the whole universe might be a projection from the 2D surface of a sphere"
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+body: "I’m not arguing any specific purpose of controlling a simulation in these ways, just that the arguments saying it wouldn’t happen are too weak. A multipurpose simulation (imagine one shared by many different teams of simulation researchers) could plausibly be used like this where they mess with just about anything and then reset. Doesn’t mean it’s likely, just that it’s unreasonable to exclude the possibility"
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+body: "Besides the fact that it wasn’t actually known if those tests would work, there’s also hypothetical tests for simulation theory (eg. testing for pixelated resolution of spacetime, plus endless “consistency tests”) so doesn’t that make it all the same thing anyway? You’re making much too strong assumptions."
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+body: """
Physicists tends to work with precision in decimals, not multiple orders of magnitude. They didn’t know it would be there either, all they knew is the theory they had would be simpler if it was there than not.\n
\n
Your quote from the website is a bad attempt at backdating current knowledge from very recent research and experiments to the original discoverers\n
\n
[scientificamerican.com/…/how-the-higgs-boson-ruin…](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-the-higgs-boson-ruined-peter-higgss-life/)\n
\n
> The discovery of the Higgs boson came nearly 50 years after Higgs’s prediction, and he said he never expected it to be found in his lifetime.\n
\n
It’s not even known if there’s more than one Higgs boson, because the theory allows multiple variants.\n
\n
Look at that graph of how many different variants would decay differently;\n
\n
[home.cern/…/higgs-boson-revealing-natures-secrets](https://home.cern/news/series/lhc-physics-ten/higgs-boson-revealing-natures-secrets)\n
\n
They had thousands of different predictions and couldn’t know which were right until the data was in.\n
\n
> If, due to its mass, they could only observe the interplay between the Higgs boson on one hand and the W and Z bosons on the other, the puzzle of the fermion masses would remain unsolved. Discovering the particle at a convenient mass was an unexpected kindness from nature. If it were slightly more massive, above 180 GeV or so, the options to study it at the time of its discovery would have been more limited.\n
\n
> The variety of available transformation products means that data from the individual channels can be combined together through sophisticated techniques to build up a greater understanding of the particle. “Doing so is not trivial,” says Giovanni Petrucciani, co-convener of the Higgs analysis group in CMS. “You have to treat the uncertainties similarly across all the individual analyses and interpret the results carefully, once you have applied complicated statistical machinery.” Combining data from the transformation of the Higgs boson to pairs of Z bosons and pairs of photons allowed ATLAS and CMS to discover the Higgs boson in 2012.\n
\n
It was legitimately not known if we could find it. It could have been big enough that LHC would’ve failed, and then it could have taken us 50 more years to build a collider large enough (mostly due to cost, but still)\n
\n
In fact they’re only *mostly* sure still\n
\n
> Yet, the Brout-Englert-Higgs mechanism remains among the least-understood phenomena in the Standard Model. Indeed, while scientists have dropped the “-like” suffix and have understood the Higgs boson remarkably since its discovery, they still do not know if what was observed is the Higgs boson predicted by the Standard Model.\n
\n
You don’t even understand what I’m saying, how can you accuse me of walking back?\n
\n
You keep making unjustified claims even now. What if a simulator knows what you’re looking at and simply don’t mess with that? Clearly not impossible. Implausible? Absolutely, AND I KEEP SAYING SO, there’s no reason to believe it’s happening, *and yet it’s possible*. Your inability to comprehend doesn’t change the meaning of my statements.\n
\n
Your persistence in calling it meaningless because it’s unfalsifiable *with no further context* is equivalent to you calling most theoretical physics meaningless. A ton of theories like string theory is by your standard equally unfalsifiable and therefore we shall declare it impossible and stop investigating.\n
\n
Instead we develop endless hypothetical scenarios specifically so we can look for evidence when new tools for investigating fundamental physics become available.
"""
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date: 2024-02-10 14:25:21.0 +01:00
}
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date: 2023-12-24 23:00:12.0 +01:00
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+"title": 249569
}
1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1715
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+body: """
Found via Wikipedia. From the 70’s:\n
\n
> We should perhaps finish our paper with an apology and a caution. We apologize to experimentalists for having no idea what is the mass of the Higgs boson, …, and for not being sure of its couplings to other particles, except that they are probably all very small. For these reasons, we do not want to encourage big experimental searches for the Higgs boson, but we do feel that people doing experiments vulnerable to the Higgs boson should know how it may turn up.\n
\n
— John R. Ellis, Mary K. Gaillard, and Dimitri V. Nanopoulos,\n
\n
> One of the problems was that at the time there was almost no clue to the mass of the Higgs boson. Theoretical considerations left open a very wide range somewhere between 10 GeV/c2[13] and 1000 GeV/c2[14] with no real indication where to look.[1]\n
\n
So you’re literally as wrong as you could be. It wasn’t until what once was a wild hypothesis had been explored more that they could start to make better predictions around where it might be, decades later, and after tests narrowing down where it wasn’t.\n
\n
I didn’t “walk back” either. Exploring multiple possibilities is called hedging, not walking back (since that means you retracted something which I didn’t do), and scientists does it too. I didn’t say either one option is more likely, I told you there are many possibilities and then you insisted on calling several of them impossible not because any mechanics exclude it’s possibility but because you can’t see it. That’s plainly wrong. You can definitely argue it’s improbable, but you don’t get to call it impossible without proving it impossible.
"""
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"@dpkonofa@lemmy.world"
"@ExLisper@linux.community"
"@Natanael@slrpnk.net"
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0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1561
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+body: "You’re conflating things. We have no reason to argue those are true with any certainty, but we still can’t exclude the possibility. It’s the difference of “justified belief” vs coherent theory. Physics have had a ton of theories postulated without evidence where decades later one option was proven true and many others proven false. Under your assumption you shouldn’t have made that theory before it could be tested."
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…2
}
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+body: """
You’re conflating “possible” with “probable”, and refusing to address possibilities you don’t have proof of.\n
\n
When higgs bosons were predicted they were untestable. When gravity waves were predicted they were untestable. When black hole rings were predicted they were untestable.\n
\n
Then we discovered how to build the sensors and instruments to test them.\n
\n
You’re saying those scientists should’ve dropped their ideas because at that point it was still impossible to test or falsify.\n
\n
What scientists do instead is to develop many different alternative theories, then design tests and experiments, and then once data is in *then* they decide what do believe about the theories based on what the could prove or not.\n
\n
Edit: why are people like this so aggressively wrong in the dumbest ways… Not only did they pick only one of 3 examples of mine to attack and ignoring the rest, they also did so maximally incorrectly all while failing to understand the consequences of their own policy of rejecting anything you don’t know how to test.\n
\n
The core of my argument is really just “sometimes scientists works on stuff nobody knows how to test, because maybe they’ll find out how in the future”, and this dude’s argument is essentially “if you don’t know how to test something it’s literally impossible for it to be true and therefore it shall be rejected, but also scientists always knows the path forward and therefore I don’t have to reevaluate my understanding of science”
"""
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|
Show voter details
|
60 |
DENIED
|
moderate
|
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1795
+user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1592
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+slug: "Both-beliefs-are-fine-but-please-realize-the-hypocrisy"
+title: "Both beliefs are fine, but please realize the hypocrisy"
+url: "https://sh.itjust.works/pictrs/image/7c20a1be-a2cc-4078-881c-894db994be19.jpeg"
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5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1556
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+body: "There’s an argument that because some of the physical limits we see around entropy density (due to singularities) are proportional to the area of a sphere around the volume, together with math indicating it’s possible to translate physics in a 3D volume to a 2D surface, the whole universe might be a projection from the 2D surface of a sphere"
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6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1697
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+body: "I’m not arguing any specific purpose of controlling a simulation in these ways, just that the arguments saying it wouldn’t happen are too weak. A multipurpose simulation (imagine one shared by many different teams of simulation researchers) could plausibly be used like this where they mess with just about anything and then reset. Doesn’t mean it’s likely, just that it’s unreasonable to exclude the possibility"
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4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1795}
3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1723
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+body: "Besides the fact that it wasn’t actually known if those tests would work, there’s also hypothetical tests for simulation theory (eg. testing for pixelated resolution of spacetime, plus endless “consistency tests”) so doesn’t that make it all the same thing anyway? You’re making much too strong assumptions."
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2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2462
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Physicists tends to work with precision in decimals, not multiple orders of magnitude. They didn’t know it would be there either, all they knew is the theory they had would be simpler if it was there than not.\n
\n
Your quote from the website is a bad attempt at backdating current knowledge from very recent research and experiments to the original discoverers\n
\n
[scientificamerican.com/…/how-the-higgs-boson-ruin…](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-the-higgs-boson-ruined-peter-higgss-life/)\n
\n
> The discovery of the Higgs boson came nearly 50 years after Higgs’s prediction, and he said he never expected it to be found in his lifetime.\n
\n
It’s not even known if there’s more than one Higgs boson, because the theory allows multiple variants.\n
\n
Look at that graph of how many different variants would decay differently;\n
\n
[home.cern/…/higgs-boson-revealing-natures-secrets](https://home.cern/news/series/lhc-physics-ten/higgs-boson-revealing-natures-secrets)\n
\n
They had thousands of different predictions and couldn’t know which were right until the data was in.\n
\n
> If, due to its mass, they could only observe the interplay between the Higgs boson on one hand and the W and Z bosons on the other, the puzzle of the fermion masses would remain unsolved. Discovering the particle at a convenient mass was an unexpected kindness from nature. If it were slightly more massive, above 180 GeV or so, the options to study it at the time of its discovery would have been more limited.\n
\n
> The variety of available transformation products means that data from the individual channels can be combined together through sophisticated techniques to build up a greater understanding of the particle. “Doing so is not trivial,” says Giovanni Petrucciani, co-convener of the Higgs analysis group in CMS. “You have to treat the uncertainties similarly across all the individual analyses and interpret the results carefully, once you have applied complicated statistical machinery.” Combining data from the transformation of the Higgs boson to pairs of Z bosons and pairs of photons allowed ATLAS and CMS to discover the Higgs boson in 2012.\n
\n
It was legitimately not known if we could find it. It could have been big enough that LHC would’ve failed, and then it could have taken us 50 more years to build a collider large enough (mostly due to cost, but still)\n
\n
In fact they’re only *mostly* sure still\n
\n
> Yet, the Brout-Englert-Higgs mechanism remains among the least-understood phenomena in the Standard Model. Indeed, while scientists have dropped the “-like” suffix and have understood the Higgs boson remarkably since its discovery, they still do not know if what was observed is the Higgs boson predicted by the Standard Model.\n
\n
You don’t even understand what I’m saying, how can you accuse me of walking back?\n
\n
You keep making unjustified claims even now. What if a simulator knows what you’re looking at and simply don’t mess with that? Clearly not impossible. Implausible? Absolutely, AND I KEEP SAYING SO, there’s no reason to believe it’s happening, *and yet it’s possible*. Your inability to comprehend doesn’t change the meaning of my statements.\n
\n
Your persistence in calling it meaningless because it’s unfalsifiable *with no further context* is equivalent to you calling most theoretical physics meaningless. A ton of theories like string theory is by your standard equally unfalsifiable and therefore we shall declare it impossible and stop investigating.\n
\n
Instead we develop endless hypothetical scenarios specifically so we can look for evidence when new tools for investigating fundamental physics become available.
"""
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Found via Wikipedia. From the 70’s:\n
\n
> We should perhaps finish our paper with an apology and a caution. We apologize to experimentalists for having no idea what is the mass of the Higgs boson, …, and for not being sure of its couplings to other particles, except that they are probably all very small. For these reasons, we do not want to encourage big experimental searches for the Higgs boson, but we do feel that people doing experiments vulnerable to the Higgs boson should know how it may turn up.\n
\n
— John R. Ellis, Mary K. Gaillard, and Dimitri V. Nanopoulos,\n
\n
> One of the problems was that at the time there was almost no clue to the mass of the Higgs boson. Theoretical considerations left open a very wide range somewhere between 10 GeV/c2[13] and 1000 GeV/c2[14] with no real indication where to look.[1]\n
\n
So you’re literally as wrong as you could be. It wasn’t until what once was a wild hypothesis had been explored more that they could start to make better predictions around where it might be, decades later, and after tests narrowing down where it wasn’t.\n
\n
I didn’t “walk back” either. Exploring multiple possibilities is called hedging, not walking back (since that means you retracted something which I didn’t do), and scientists does it too. I didn’t say either one option is more likely, I told you there are many possibilities and then you insisted on calling several of them impossible not because any mechanics exclude it’s possibility but because you can’t see it. That’s plainly wrong. You can definitely argue it’s improbable, but you don’t get to call it impossible without proving it impossible.
"""
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+body: "You’re conflating things. We have no reason to argue those are true with any certainty, but we still can’t exclude the possibility. It’s the difference of “justified belief” vs coherent theory. Physics have had a ton of theories postulated without evidence where decades later one option was proven true and many others proven false. Under your assumption you shouldn’t have made that theory before it could be tested."
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You’re conflating “possible” with “probable”, and refusing to address possibilities you don’t have proof of.\n
\n
When higgs bosons were predicted they were untestable. When gravity waves were predicted they were untestable. When black hole rings were predicted they were untestable.\n
\n
Then we discovered how to build the sensors and instruments to test them.\n
\n
You’re saying those scientists should’ve dropped their ideas because at that point it was still impossible to test or falsify.\n
\n
What scientists do instead is to develop many different alternative theories, then design tests and experiments, and then once data is in *then* they decide what do believe about the theories based on what the could prove or not.\n
\n
Edit: why are people like this so aggressively wrong in the dumbest ways… Not only did they pick only one of 3 examples of mine to attack and ignoring the rest, they also did so maximally incorrectly all while failing to understand the consequences of their own policy of rejecting anything you don’t know how to test.\n
\n
The core of my argument is really just “sometimes scientists works on stuff nobody knows how to test, because maybe they’ll find out how in the future”, and this dude’s argument is essentially “if you don’t know how to test something it’s literally impossible for it to be true and therefore it shall be rejected, but also scientists always knows the path forward and therefore I don’t have to reevaluate my understanding of science”
"""
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#1723
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+body: "There’s an argument that because some of the physical limits we see around entropy density (due to singularities) are proportional to the area of a sphere around the volume, together with math indicating it’s possible to translate physics in a 3D volume to a 2D surface, the whole universe might be a projection from the 2D surface of a sphere"
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+body: "I’m not arguing any specific purpose of controlling a simulation in these ways, just that the arguments saying it wouldn’t happen are too weak. A multipurpose simulation (imagine one shared by many different teams of simulation researchers) could plausibly be used like this where they mess with just about anything and then reset. Doesn’t mean it’s likely, just that it’s unreasonable to exclude the possibility"
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4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1795
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+body: """
You’re conflating “possible” with “probable”, and refusing to address possibilities you don’t have proof of.\n
\n
When higgs bosons were predicted they were untestable. When gravity waves were predicted they were untestable. When black hole rings were predicted they were untestable.\n
\n
Then we discovered how to build the sensors and instruments to test them.\n
\n
You’re saying those scientists should’ve dropped their ideas because at that point it was still impossible to test or falsify.\n
\n
What scientists do instead is to develop many different alternative theories, then design tests and experiments, and then once data is in *then* they decide what do believe about the theories based on what the could prove or not.\n
\n
Edit: why are people like this so aggressively wrong in the dumbest ways… Not only did they pick only one of 3 examples of mine to attack and ignoring the rest, they also did so maximally incorrectly all while failing to understand the consequences of their own policy of rejecting anything you don’t know how to test.\n
\n
The core of my argument is really just “sometimes scientists works on stuff nobody knows how to test, because maybe they’ll find out how in the future”, and this dude’s argument is essentially “if you don’t know how to test something it’s literally impossible for it to be true and therefore it shall be rejected, but also scientists always knows the path forward and therefore I don’t have to reevaluate my understanding of science”
"""
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+body: """
Physicists tends to work with precision in decimals, not multiple orders of magnitude. They didn’t know it would be there either, all they knew is the theory they had would be simpler if it was there than not.\n
\n
Your quote from the website is a bad attempt at backdating current knowledge from very recent research and experiments to the original discoverers\n
\n
[scientificamerican.com/…/how-the-higgs-boson-ruin…](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-the-higgs-boson-ruined-peter-higgss-life/)\n
\n
> The discovery of the Higgs boson came nearly 50 years after Higgs’s prediction, and he said he never expected it to be found in his lifetime.\n
\n
It’s not even known if there’s more than one Higgs boson, because the theory allows multiple variants.\n
\n
Look at that graph of how many different variants would decay differently;\n
\n
[home.cern/…/higgs-boson-revealing-natures-secrets](https://home.cern/news/series/lhc-physics-ten/higgs-boson-revealing-natures-secrets)\n
\n
They had thousands of different predictions and couldn’t know which were right until the data was in.\n
\n
> If, due to its mass, they could only observe the interplay between the Higgs boson on one hand and the W and Z bosons on the other, the puzzle of the fermion masses would remain unsolved. Discovering the particle at a convenient mass was an unexpected kindness from nature. If it were slightly more massive, above 180 GeV or so, the options to study it at the time of its discovery would have been more limited.\n
\n
> The variety of available transformation products means that data from the individual channels can be combined together through sophisticated techniques to build up a greater understanding of the particle. “Doing so is not trivial,” says Giovanni Petrucciani, co-convener of the Higgs analysis group in CMS. “You have to treat the uncertainties similarly across all the individual analyses and interpret the results carefully, once you have applied complicated statistical machinery.” Combining data from the transformation of the Higgs boson to pairs of Z bosons and pairs of photons allowed ATLAS and CMS to discover the Higgs boson in 2012.\n
\n
It was legitimately not known if we could find it. It could have been big enough that LHC would’ve failed, and then it could have taken us 50 more years to build a collider large enough (mostly due to cost, but still)\n
\n
In fact they’re only *mostly* sure still\n
\n
> Yet, the Brout-Englert-Higgs mechanism remains among the least-understood phenomena in the Standard Model. Indeed, while scientists have dropped the “-like” suffix and have understood the Higgs boson remarkably since its discovery, they still do not know if what was observed is the Higgs boson predicted by the Standard Model.\n
\n
You don’t even understand what I’m saying, how can you accuse me of walking back?\n
\n
You keep making unjustified claims even now. What if a simulator knows what you’re looking at and simply don’t mess with that? Clearly not impossible. Implausible? Absolutely, AND I KEEP SAYING SO, there’s no reason to believe it’s happening, *and yet it’s possible*. Your inability to comprehend doesn’t change the meaning of my statements.\n
\n
Your persistence in calling it meaningless because it’s unfalsifiable *with no further context* is equivalent to you calling most theoretical physics meaningless. A ton of theories like string theory is by your standard equally unfalsifiable and therefore we shall declare it impossible and stop investigating.\n
\n
Instead we develop endless hypothetical scenarios specifically so we can look for evidence when new tools for investigating fundamental physics become available.
"""
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+body: """
Found via Wikipedia. From the 70’s:\n
\n
> We should perhaps finish our paper with an apology and a caution. We apologize to experimentalists for having no idea what is the mass of the Higgs boson, …, and for not being sure of its couplings to other particles, except that they are probably all very small. For these reasons, we do not want to encourage big experimental searches for the Higgs boson, but we do feel that people doing experiments vulnerable to the Higgs boson should know how it may turn up.\n
\n
— John R. Ellis, Mary K. Gaillard, and Dimitri V. Nanopoulos,\n
\n
> One of the problems was that at the time there was almost no clue to the mass of the Higgs boson. Theoretical considerations left open a very wide range somewhere between 10 GeV/c2[13] and 1000 GeV/c2[14] with no real indication where to look.[1]\n
\n
So you’re literally as wrong as you could be. It wasn’t until what once was a wild hypothesis had been explored more that they could start to make better predictions around where it might be, decades later, and after tests narrowing down where it wasn’t.\n
\n
I didn’t “walk back” either. Exploring multiple possibilities is called hedging, not walking back (since that means you retracted something which I didn’t do), and scientists does it too. I didn’t say either one option is more likely, I told you there are many possibilities and then you insisted on calling several of them impossible not because any mechanics exclude it’s possibility but because you can’t see it. That’s plainly wrong. You can definitely argue it’s improbable, but you don’t get to call it impossible without proving it impossible.
"""
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+body: "You’re conflating things. We have no reason to argue those are true with any certainty, but we still can’t exclude the possibility. It’s the difference of “justified belief” vs coherent theory. Physics have had a ton of theories postulated without evidence where decades later one option was proven true and many others proven false. Under your assumption you shouldn’t have made that theory before it could be tested."
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+body: "Besides the fact that it wasn’t actually known if those tests would work, there’s also hypothetical tests for simulation theory (eg. testing for pixelated resolution of spacetime, plus endless “consistency tests”) so doesn’t that make it all the same thing anyway? You’re making much too strong assumptions."
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|
Show voter details
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edit
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+slug: "Both-beliefs-are-fine-but-please-realize-the-hypocrisy"
+title: "Both beliefs are fine, but please realize the hypocrisy"
+url: "https://sh.itjust.works/pictrs/image/7c20a1be-a2cc-4078-881c-894db994be19.jpeg"
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+body: "There’s an argument that because some of the physical limits we see around entropy density (due to singularities) are proportional to the area of a sphere around the volume, together with math indicating it’s possible to translate physics in a 3D volume to a 2D surface, the whole universe might be a projection from the 2D surface of a sphere"
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+body: "I’m not arguing any specific purpose of controlling a simulation in these ways, just that the arguments saying it wouldn’t happen are too weak. A multipurpose simulation (imagine one shared by many different teams of simulation researchers) could plausibly be used like this where they mess with just about anything and then reset. Doesn’t mean it’s likely, just that it’s unreasonable to exclude the possibility"
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+body: """
You’re conflating “possible” with “probable”, and refusing to address possibilities you don’t have proof of.\n
\n
When higgs bosons were predicted they were untestable. When gravity waves were predicted they were untestable. When black hole rings were predicted they were untestable.\n
\n
Then we discovered how to build the sensors and instruments to test them.\n
\n
You’re saying those scientists should’ve dropped their ideas because at that point it was still impossible to test or falsify.\n
\n
What scientists do instead is to develop many different alternative theories, then design tests and experiments, and then once data is in *then* they decide what do believe about the theories based on what the could prove or not.\n
\n
Edit: why are people like this so aggressively wrong in the dumbest ways… Not only did they pick only one of 3 examples of mine to attack and ignoring the rest, they also did so maximally incorrectly all while failing to understand the consequences of their own policy of rejecting anything you don’t know how to test.\n
\n
The core of my argument is really just “sometimes scientists works on stuff nobody knows how to test, because maybe they’ll find out how in the future”, and this dude’s argument is essentially “if you don’t know how to test something it’s literally impossible for it to be true and therefore it shall be rejected, but also scientists always knows the path forward and therefore I don’t have to reevaluate my understanding of science”
"""
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+body: """
Physicists tends to work with precision in decimals, not multiple orders of magnitude. They didn’t know it would be there either, all they knew is the theory they had would be simpler if it was there than not.\n
\n
Your quote from the website is a bad attempt at backdating current knowledge from very recent research and experiments to the original discoverers\n
\n
[scientificamerican.com/…/how-the-higgs-boson-ruin…](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-the-higgs-boson-ruined-peter-higgss-life/)\n
\n
> The discovery of the Higgs boson came nearly 50 years after Higgs’s prediction, and he said he never expected it to be found in his lifetime.\n
\n
It’s not even known if there’s more than one Higgs boson, because the theory allows multiple variants.\n
\n
Look at that graph of how many different variants would decay differently;\n
\n
[home.cern/…/higgs-boson-revealing-natures-secrets](https://home.cern/news/series/lhc-physics-ten/higgs-boson-revealing-natures-secrets)\n
\n
They had thousands of different predictions and couldn’t know which were right until the data was in.\n
\n
> If, due to its mass, they could only observe the interplay between the Higgs boson on one hand and the W and Z bosons on the other, the puzzle of the fermion masses would remain unsolved. Discovering the particle at a convenient mass was an unexpected kindness from nature. If it were slightly more massive, above 180 GeV or so, the options to study it at the time of its discovery would have been more limited.\n
\n
> The variety of available transformation products means that data from the individual channels can be combined together through sophisticated techniques to build up a greater understanding of the particle. “Doing so is not trivial,” says Giovanni Petrucciani, co-convener of the Higgs analysis group in CMS. “You have to treat the uncertainties similarly across all the individual analyses and interpret the results carefully, once you have applied complicated statistical machinery.” Combining data from the transformation of the Higgs boson to pairs of Z bosons and pairs of photons allowed ATLAS and CMS to discover the Higgs boson in 2012.\n
\n
It was legitimately not known if we could find it. It could have been big enough that LHC would’ve failed, and then it could have taken us 50 more years to build a collider large enough (mostly due to cost, but still)\n
\n
In fact they’re only *mostly* sure still\n
\n
> Yet, the Brout-Englert-Higgs mechanism remains among the least-understood phenomena in the Standard Model. Indeed, while scientists have dropped the “-like” suffix and have understood the Higgs boson remarkably since its discovery, they still do not know if what was observed is the Higgs boson predicted by the Standard Model.\n
\n
You don’t even understand what I’m saying, how can you accuse me of walking back?\n
\n
You keep making unjustified claims even now. What if a simulator knows what you’re looking at and simply don’t mess with that? Clearly not impossible. Implausible? Absolutely, AND I KEEP SAYING SO, there’s no reason to believe it’s happening, *and yet it’s possible*. Your inability to comprehend doesn’t change the meaning of my statements.\n
\n
Your persistence in calling it meaningless because it’s unfalsifiable *with no further context* is equivalent to you calling most theoretical physics meaningless. A ton of theories like string theory is by your standard equally unfalsifiable and therefore we shall declare it impossible and stop investigating.\n
\n
Instead we develop endless hypothetical scenarios specifically so we can look for evidence when new tools for investigating fundamental physics become available.
"""
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+body: """
Found via Wikipedia. From the 70’s:\n
\n
> We should perhaps finish our paper with an apology and a caution. We apologize to experimentalists for having no idea what is the mass of the Higgs boson, …, and for not being sure of its couplings to other particles, except that they are probably all very small. For these reasons, we do not want to encourage big experimental searches for the Higgs boson, but we do feel that people doing experiments vulnerable to the Higgs boson should know how it may turn up.\n
\n
— John R. Ellis, Mary K. Gaillard, and Dimitri V. Nanopoulos,\n
\n
> One of the problems was that at the time there was almost no clue to the mass of the Higgs boson. Theoretical considerations left open a very wide range somewhere between 10 GeV/c2[13] and 1000 GeV/c2[14] with no real indication where to look.[1]\n
\n
So you’re literally as wrong as you could be. It wasn’t until what once was a wild hypothesis had been explored more that they could start to make better predictions around where it might be, decades later, and after tests narrowing down where it wasn’t.\n
\n
I didn’t “walk back” either. Exploring multiple possibilities is called hedging, not walking back (since that means you retracted something which I didn’t do), and scientists does it too. I didn’t say either one option is more likely, I told you there are many possibilities and then you insisted on calling several of them impossible not because any mechanics exclude it’s possibility but because you can’t see it. That’s plainly wrong. You can definitely argue it’s improbable, but you don’t get to call it impossible without proving it impossible.
"""
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+body: "You’re conflating things. We have no reason to argue those are true with any certainty, but we still can’t exclude the possibility. It’s the difference of “justified belief” vs coherent theory. Physics have had a ton of theories postulated without evidence where decades later one option was proven true and many others proven false. Under your assumption you shouldn’t have made that theory before it could be tested."
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date: 2023-12-23 00:56:37.0 +01:00
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…2
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+body: "Besides the fact that it wasn’t actually known if those tests would work, there’s also hypothetical tests for simulation theory (eg. testing for pixelated resolution of spacetime, plus endless “consistency tests”) so doesn’t that make it all the same thing anyway? You’re making much too strong assumptions."
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|
Show voter details
|
64 |
DENIED
|
moderate
|
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1723
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+title: "Both beliefs are fine, but please realize the hypocrisy"
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+body: "There’s an argument that because some of the physical limits we see around entropy density (due to singularities) are proportional to the area of a sphere around the volume, together with math indicating it’s possible to translate physics in a 3D volume to a 2D surface, the whole universe might be a projection from the 2D surface of a sphere"
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+body: "I’m not arguing any specific purpose of controlling a simulation in these ways, just that the arguments saying it wouldn’t happen are too weak. A multipurpose simulation (imagine one shared by many different teams of simulation researchers) could plausibly be used like this where they mess with just about anything and then reset. Doesn’t mean it’s likely, just that it’s unreasonable to exclude the possibility"
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+body: """
You’re conflating “possible” with “probable”, and refusing to address possibilities you don’t have proof of.\n
\n
When higgs bosons were predicted they were untestable. When gravity waves were predicted they were untestable. When black hole rings were predicted they were untestable.\n
\n
Then we discovered how to build the sensors and instruments to test them.\n
\n
You’re saying those scientists should’ve dropped their ideas because at that point it was still impossible to test or falsify.\n
\n
What scientists do instead is to develop many different alternative theories, then design tests and experiments, and then once data is in *then* they decide what do believe about the theories based on what the could prove or not.\n
\n
Edit: why are people like this so aggressively wrong in the dumbest ways… Not only did they pick only one of 3 examples of mine to attack and ignoring the rest, they also did so maximally incorrectly all while failing to understand the consequences of their own policy of rejecting anything you don’t know how to test.\n
\n
The core of my argument is really just “sometimes scientists works on stuff nobody knows how to test, because maybe they’ll find out how in the future”, and this dude’s argument is essentially “if you don’t know how to test something it’s literally impossible for it to be true and therefore it shall be rejected, but also scientists always knows the path forward and therefore I don’t have to reevaluate my understanding of science”
"""
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2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2462
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Physicists tends to work with precision in decimals, not multiple orders of magnitude. They didn’t know it would be there either, all they knew is the theory they had would be simpler if it was there than not.\n
\n
Your quote from the website is a bad attempt at backdating current knowledge from very recent research and experiments to the original discoverers\n
\n
[scientificamerican.com/…/how-the-higgs-boson-ruin…](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-the-higgs-boson-ruined-peter-higgss-life/)\n
\n
> The discovery of the Higgs boson came nearly 50 years after Higgs’s prediction, and he said he never expected it to be found in his lifetime.\n
\n
It’s not even known if there’s more than one Higgs boson, because the theory allows multiple variants.\n
\n
Look at that graph of how many different variants would decay differently;\n
\n
[home.cern/…/higgs-boson-revealing-natures-secrets](https://home.cern/news/series/lhc-physics-ten/higgs-boson-revealing-natures-secrets)\n
\n
They had thousands of different predictions and couldn’t know which were right until the data was in.\n
\n
> If, due to its mass, they could only observe the interplay between the Higgs boson on one hand and the W and Z bosons on the other, the puzzle of the fermion masses would remain unsolved. Discovering the particle at a convenient mass was an unexpected kindness from nature. If it were slightly more massive, above 180 GeV or so, the options to study it at the time of its discovery would have been more limited.\n
\n
> The variety of available transformation products means that data from the individual channels can be combined together through sophisticated techniques to build up a greater understanding of the particle. “Doing so is not trivial,” says Giovanni Petrucciani, co-convener of the Higgs analysis group in CMS. “You have to treat the uncertainties similarly across all the individual analyses and interpret the results carefully, once you have applied complicated statistical machinery.” Combining data from the transformation of the Higgs boson to pairs of Z bosons and pairs of photons allowed ATLAS and CMS to discover the Higgs boson in 2012.\n
\n
It was legitimately not known if we could find it. It could have been big enough that LHC would’ve failed, and then it could have taken us 50 more years to build a collider large enough (mostly due to cost, but still)\n
\n
In fact they’re only *mostly* sure still\n
\n
> Yet, the Brout-Englert-Higgs mechanism remains among the least-understood phenomena in the Standard Model. Indeed, while scientists have dropped the “-like” suffix and have understood the Higgs boson remarkably since its discovery, they still do not know if what was observed is the Higgs boson predicted by the Standard Model.\n
\n
You don’t even understand what I’m saying, how can you accuse me of walking back?\n
\n
You keep making unjustified claims even now. What if a simulator knows what you’re looking at and simply don’t mess with that? Clearly not impossible. Implausible? Absolutely, AND I KEEP SAYING SO, there’s no reason to believe it’s happening, *and yet it’s possible*. Your inability to comprehend doesn’t change the meaning of my statements.\n
\n
Your persistence in calling it meaningless because it’s unfalsifiable *with no further context* is equivalent to you calling most theoretical physics meaningless. A ton of theories like string theory is by your standard equally unfalsifiable and therefore we shall declare it impossible and stop investigating.\n
\n
Instead we develop endless hypothetical scenarios specifically so we can look for evidence when new tools for investigating fundamental physics become available.
"""
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1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1715
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+body: """
Found via Wikipedia. From the 70’s:\n
\n
> We should perhaps finish our paper with an apology and a caution. We apologize to experimentalists for having no idea what is the mass of the Higgs boson, …, and for not being sure of its couplings to other particles, except that they are probably all very small. For these reasons, we do not want to encourage big experimental searches for the Higgs boson, but we do feel that people doing experiments vulnerable to the Higgs boson should know how it may turn up.\n
\n
— John R. Ellis, Mary K. Gaillard, and Dimitri V. Nanopoulos,\n
\n
> One of the problems was that at the time there was almost no clue to the mass of the Higgs boson. Theoretical considerations left open a very wide range somewhere between 10 GeV/c2[13] and 1000 GeV/c2[14] with no real indication where to look.[1]\n
\n
So you’re literally as wrong as you could be. It wasn’t until what once was a wild hypothesis had been explored more that they could start to make better predictions around where it might be, decades later, and after tests narrowing down where it wasn’t.\n
\n
I didn’t “walk back” either. Exploring multiple possibilities is called hedging, not walking back (since that means you retracted something which I didn’t do), and scientists does it too. I didn’t say either one option is more likely, I told you there are many possibilities and then you insisted on calling several of them impossible not because any mechanics exclude it’s possibility but because you can’t see it. That’s plainly wrong. You can definitely argue it’s improbable, but you don’t get to call it impossible without proving it impossible.
"""
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0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1561
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+body: "You’re conflating things. We have no reason to argue those are true with any certainty, but we still can’t exclude the possibility. It’s the difference of “justified belief” vs coherent theory. Physics have had a ton of theories postulated without evidence where decades later one option was proven true and many others proven false. Under your assumption you shouldn’t have made that theory before it could be tested."
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+body: "Besides the fact that it wasn’t actually known if those tests would work, there’s also hypothetical tests for simulation theory (eg. testing for pixelated resolution of spacetime, plus endless “consistency tests”) so doesn’t that make it all the same thing anyway? You’re making much too strong assumptions."
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#2462
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5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1556
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+body: "There’s an argument that because some of the physical limits we see around entropy density (due to singularities) are proportional to the area of a sphere around the volume, together with math indicating it’s possible to translate physics in a 3D volume to a 2D surface, the whole universe might be a projection from the 2D surface of a sphere"
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+body: "I’m not arguing any specific purpose of controlling a simulation in these ways, just that the arguments saying it wouldn’t happen are too weak. A multipurpose simulation (imagine one shared by many different teams of simulation researchers) could plausibly be used like this where they mess with just about anything and then reset. Doesn’t mean it’s likely, just that it’s unreasonable to exclude the possibility"
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+body: """
You’re conflating “possible” with “probable”, and refusing to address possibilities you don’t have proof of.\n
\n
When higgs bosons were predicted they were untestable. When gravity waves were predicted they were untestable. When black hole rings were predicted they were untestable.\n
\n
Then we discovered how to build the sensors and instruments to test them.\n
\n
You’re saying those scientists should’ve dropped their ideas because at that point it was still impossible to test or falsify.\n
\n
What scientists do instead is to develop many different alternative theories, then design tests and experiments, and then once data is in *then* they decide what do believe about the theories based on what the could prove or not.\n
\n
Edit: why are people like this so aggressively wrong in the dumbest ways… Not only did they pick only one of 3 examples of mine to attack and ignoring the rest, they also did so maximally incorrectly all while failing to understand the consequences of their own policy of rejecting anything you don’t know how to test.\n
\n
The core of my argument is really just “sometimes scientists works on stuff nobody knows how to test, because maybe they’ll find out how in the future”, and this dude’s argument is essentially “if you don’t know how to test something it’s literally impossible for it to be true and therefore it shall be rejected, but also scientists always knows the path forward and therefore I don’t have to reevaluate my understanding of science”
"""
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3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1723
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+body: "Besides the fact that it wasn’t actually known if those tests would work, there’s also hypothetical tests for simulation theory (eg. testing for pixelated resolution of spacetime, plus endless “consistency tests”) so doesn’t that make it all the same thing anyway? You’re making much too strong assumptions."
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2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2462}
1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1715
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+body: """
Found via Wikipedia. From the 70’s:\n
\n
> We should perhaps finish our paper with an apology and a caution. We apologize to experimentalists for having no idea what is the mass of the Higgs boson, …, and for not being sure of its couplings to other particles, except that they are probably all very small. For these reasons, we do not want to encourage big experimental searches for the Higgs boson, but we do feel that people doing experiments vulnerable to the Higgs boson should know how it may turn up.\n
\n
— John R. Ellis, Mary K. Gaillard, and Dimitri V. Nanopoulos,\n
\n
> One of the problems was that at the time there was almost no clue to the mass of the Higgs boson. Theoretical considerations left open a very wide range somewhere between 10 GeV/c2[13] and 1000 GeV/c2[14] with no real indication where to look.[1]\n
\n
So you’re literally as wrong as you could be. It wasn’t until what once was a wild hypothesis had been explored more that they could start to make better predictions around where it might be, decades later, and after tests narrowing down where it wasn’t.\n
\n
I didn’t “walk back” either. Exploring multiple possibilities is called hedging, not walking back (since that means you retracted something which I didn’t do), and scientists does it too. I didn’t say either one option is more likely, I told you there are many possibilities and then you insisted on calling several of them impossible not because any mechanics exclude it’s possibility but because you can’t see it. That’s plainly wrong. You can definitely argue it’s improbable, but you don’t get to call it impossible without proving it impossible.
"""
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+body: "You’re conflating things. We have no reason to argue those are true with any certainty, but we still can’t exclude the possibility. It’s the difference of “justified belief” vs coherent theory. Physics have had a ton of theories postulated without evidence where decades later one option was proven true and many others proven false. Under your assumption you shouldn’t have made that theory before it could be tested."
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+body: """
Physicists tends to work with precision in decimals, not multiple orders of magnitude. They didn’t know it would be there either, all they knew is the theory they had would be simpler if it was there than not.\n
\n
Your quote from the website is a bad attempt at backdating current knowledge from very recent research and experiments to the original discoverers\n
\n
[scientificamerican.com/…/how-the-higgs-boson-ruin…](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-the-higgs-boson-ruined-peter-higgss-life/)\n
\n
> The discovery of the Higgs boson came nearly 50 years after Higgs’s prediction, and he said he never expected it to be found in his lifetime.\n
\n
It’s not even known if there’s more than one Higgs boson, because the theory allows multiple variants.\n
\n
Look at that graph of how many different variants would decay differently;\n
\n
[home.cern/…/higgs-boson-revealing-natures-secrets](https://home.cern/news/series/lhc-physics-ten/higgs-boson-revealing-natures-secrets)\n
\n
They had thousands of different predictions and couldn’t know which were right until the data was in.\n
\n
> If, due to its mass, they could only observe the interplay between the Higgs boson on one hand and the W and Z bosons on the other, the puzzle of the fermion masses would remain unsolved. Discovering the particle at a convenient mass was an unexpected kindness from nature. If it were slightly more massive, above 180 GeV or so, the options to study it at the time of its discovery would have been more limited.\n
\n
> The variety of available transformation products means that data from the individual channels can be combined together through sophisticated techniques to build up a greater understanding of the particle. “Doing so is not trivial,” says Giovanni Petrucciani, co-convener of the Higgs analysis group in CMS. “You have to treat the uncertainties similarly across all the individual analyses and interpret the results carefully, once you have applied complicated statistical machinery.” Combining data from the transformation of the Higgs boson to pairs of Z bosons and pairs of photons allowed ATLAS and CMS to discover the Higgs boson in 2012.\n
\n
It was legitimately not known if we could find it. It could have been big enough that LHC would’ve failed, and then it could have taken us 50 more years to build a collider large enough (mostly due to cost, but still)\n
\n
In fact they’re only *mostly* sure still\n
\n
> Yet, the Brout-Englert-Higgs mechanism remains among the least-understood phenomena in the Standard Model. Indeed, while scientists have dropped the “-like” suffix and have understood the Higgs boson remarkably since its discovery, they still do not know if what was observed is the Higgs boson predicted by the Standard Model.\n
\n
You don’t even understand what I’m saying, how can you accuse me of walking back?\n
\n
You keep making unjustified claims even now. What if a simulator knows what you’re looking at and simply don’t mess with that? Clearly not impossible. Implausible? Absolutely, AND I KEEP SAYING SO, there’s no reason to believe it’s happening, *and yet it’s possible*. Your inability to comprehend doesn’t change the meaning of my statements.\n
\n
Your persistence in calling it meaningless because it’s unfalsifiable *with no further context* is equivalent to you calling most theoretical physics meaningless. A ton of theories like string theory is by your standard equally unfalsifiable and therefore we shall declare it impossible and stop investigating.\n
\n
Instead we develop endless hypothetical scenarios specifically so we can look for evidence when new tools for investigating fundamental physics become available.
"""
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|
Show voter details
|
67 |
DENIED
|
edit
|
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2462
+user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1592
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+slug: "Both-beliefs-are-fine-but-please-realize-the-hypocrisy"
+title: "Both beliefs are fine, but please realize the hypocrisy"
+url: "https://sh.itjust.works/pictrs/image/7c20a1be-a2cc-4078-881c-894db994be19.jpeg"
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5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1556
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+body: "There’s an argument that because some of the physical limits we see around entropy density (due to singularities) are proportional to the area of a sphere around the volume, together with math indicating it’s possible to translate physics in a 3D volume to a 2D surface, the whole universe might be a projection from the 2D surface of a sphere"
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6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1697
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+body: "I’m not arguing any specific purpose of controlling a simulation in these ways, just that the arguments saying it wouldn’t happen are too weak. A multipurpose simulation (imagine one shared by many different teams of simulation researchers) could plausibly be used like this where they mess with just about anything and then reset. Doesn’t mean it’s likely, just that it’s unreasonable to exclude the possibility"
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4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1795
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+body: """
You’re conflating “possible” with “probable”, and refusing to address possibilities you don’t have proof of.\n
\n
When higgs bosons were predicted they were untestable. When gravity waves were predicted they were untestable. When black hole rings were predicted they were untestable.\n
\n
Then we discovered how to build the sensors and instruments to test them.\n
\n
You’re saying those scientists should’ve dropped their ideas because at that point it was still impossible to test or falsify.\n
\n
What scientists do instead is to develop many different alternative theories, then design tests and experiments, and then once data is in *then* they decide what do believe about the theories based on what the could prove or not.\n
\n
Edit: why are people like this so aggressively wrong in the dumbest ways… Not only did they pick only one of 3 examples of mine to attack and ignoring the rest, they also did so maximally incorrectly all while failing to understand the consequences of their own policy of rejecting anything you don’t know how to test.\n
\n
The core of my argument is really just “sometimes scientists works on stuff nobody knows how to test, because maybe they’ll find out how in the future”, and this dude’s argument is essentially “if you don’t know how to test something it’s literally impossible for it to be true and therefore it shall be rejected, but also scientists always knows the path forward and therefore I don’t have to reevaluate my understanding of science”
"""
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3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1723
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+body: "Besides the fact that it wasn’t actually known if those tests would work, there’s also hypothetical tests for simulation theory (eg. testing for pixelated resolution of spacetime, plus endless “consistency tests”) so doesn’t that make it all the same thing anyway? You’re making much too strong assumptions."
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+body: """
Found via Wikipedia. From the 70’s:\n
\n
> We should perhaps finish our paper with an apology and a caution. We apologize to experimentalists for having no idea what is the mass of the Higgs boson, …, and for not being sure of its couplings to other particles, except that they are probably all very small. For these reasons, we do not want to encourage big experimental searches for the Higgs boson, but we do feel that people doing experiments vulnerable to the Higgs boson should know how it may turn up.\n
\n
— John R. Ellis, Mary K. Gaillard, and Dimitri V. Nanopoulos,\n
\n
> One of the problems was that at the time there was almost no clue to the mass of the Higgs boson. Theoretical considerations left open a very wide range somewhere between 10 GeV/c2[13] and 1000 GeV/c2[14] with no real indication where to look.[1]\n
\n
So you’re literally as wrong as you could be. It wasn’t until what once was a wild hypothesis had been explored more that they could start to make better predictions around where it might be, decades later, and after tests narrowing down where it wasn’t.\n
\n
I didn’t “walk back” either. Exploring multiple possibilities is called hedging, not walking back (since that means you retracted something which I didn’t do), and scientists does it too. I didn’t say either one option is more likely, I told you there are many possibilities and then you insisted on calling several of them impossible not because any mechanics exclude it’s possibility but because you can’t see it. That’s plainly wrong. You can definitely argue it’s improbable, but you don’t get to call it impossible without proving it impossible.
"""
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+body: "You’re conflating things. We have no reason to argue those are true with any certainty, but we still can’t exclude the possibility. It’s the difference of “justified belief” vs coherent theory. Physics have had a ton of theories postulated without evidence where decades later one option was proven true and many others proven false. Under your assumption you shouldn’t have made that theory before it could be tested."
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+body: """
Physicists tends to work with precision in decimals, not multiple orders of magnitude. They didn’t know it would be there either, all they knew is the theory they had would be simpler if it was there than not.\n
\n
Your quote from the website is a bad attempt at backdating current knowledge from very recent research and experiments to the original discoverers\n
\n
[scientificamerican.com/…/how-the-higgs-boson-ruin…](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-the-higgs-boson-ruined-peter-higgss-life/)\n
\n
> The discovery of the Higgs boson came nearly 50 years after Higgs’s prediction, and he said he never expected it to be found in his lifetime.\n
\n
It’s not even known if there’s more than one Higgs boson, because the theory allows multiple variants.\n
\n
Look at that graph of how many different variants would decay differently;\n
\n
[home.cern/…/higgs-boson-revealing-natures-secrets](https://home.cern/news/series/lhc-physics-ten/higgs-boson-revealing-natures-secrets)\n
\n
They had thousands of different predictions and couldn’t know which were right until the data was in.\n
\n
> If, due to its mass, they could only observe the interplay between the Higgs boson on one hand and the W and Z bosons on the other, the puzzle of the fermion masses would remain unsolved. Discovering the particle at a convenient mass was an unexpected kindness from nature. If it were slightly more massive, above 180 GeV or so, the options to study it at the time of its discovery would have been more limited.\n
\n
> The variety of available transformation products means that data from the individual channels can be combined together through sophisticated techniques to build up a greater understanding of the particle. “Doing so is not trivial,” says Giovanni Petrucciani, co-convener of the Higgs analysis group in CMS. “You have to treat the uncertainties similarly across all the individual analyses and interpret the results carefully, once you have applied complicated statistical machinery.” Combining data from the transformation of the Higgs boson to pairs of Z bosons and pairs of photons allowed ATLAS and CMS to discover the Higgs boson in 2012.\n
\n
It was legitimately not known if we could find it. It could have been big enough that LHC would’ve failed, and then it could have taken us 50 more years to build a collider large enough (mostly due to cost, but still)\n
\n
In fact they’re only *mostly* sure still\n
\n
> Yet, the Brout-Englert-Higgs mechanism remains among the least-understood phenomena in the Standard Model. Indeed, while scientists have dropped the “-like” suffix and have understood the Higgs boson remarkably since its discovery, they still do not know if what was observed is the Higgs boson predicted by the Standard Model.\n
\n
You don’t even understand what I’m saying, how can you accuse me of walking back?\n
\n
You keep making unjustified claims even now. What if a simulator knows what you’re looking at and simply don’t mess with that? Clearly not impossible. Implausible? Absolutely, AND I KEEP SAYING SO, there’s no reason to believe it’s happening, *and yet it’s possible*. Your inability to comprehend doesn’t change the meaning of my statements.\n
\n
Your persistence in calling it meaningless because it’s unfalsifiable *with no further context* is equivalent to you calling most theoretical physics meaningless. A ton of theories like string theory is by your standard equally unfalsifiable and therefore we shall declare it impossible and stop investigating.\n
\n
Instead we develop endless hypothetical scenarios specifically so we can look for evidence when new tools for investigating fundamental physics become available.
"""
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|
Show voter details
|
68 |
DENIED
|
moderate
|
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2462
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+title: "Both beliefs are fine, but please realize the hypocrisy"
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+body: "There’s an argument that because some of the physical limits we see around entropy density (due to singularities) are proportional to the area of a sphere around the volume, together with math indicating it’s possible to translate physics in a 3D volume to a 2D surface, the whole universe might be a projection from the 2D surface of a sphere"
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+body: "I’m not arguing any specific purpose of controlling a simulation in these ways, just that the arguments saying it wouldn’t happen are too weak. A multipurpose simulation (imagine one shared by many different teams of simulation researchers) could plausibly be used like this where they mess with just about anything and then reset. Doesn’t mean it’s likely, just that it’s unreasonable to exclude the possibility"
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+body: """
You’re conflating “possible” with “probable”, and refusing to address possibilities you don’t have proof of.\n
\n
When higgs bosons were predicted they were untestable. When gravity waves were predicted they were untestable. When black hole rings were predicted they were untestable.\n
\n
Then we discovered how to build the sensors and instruments to test them.\n
\n
You’re saying those scientists should’ve dropped their ideas because at that point it was still impossible to test or falsify.\n
\n
What scientists do instead is to develop many different alternative theories, then design tests and experiments, and then once data is in *then* they decide what do believe about the theories based on what the could prove or not.\n
\n
Edit: why are people like this so aggressively wrong in the dumbest ways… Not only did they pick only one of 3 examples of mine to attack and ignoring the rest, they also did so maximally incorrectly all while failing to understand the consequences of their own policy of rejecting anything you don’t know how to test.\n
\n
The core of my argument is really just “sometimes scientists works on stuff nobody knows how to test, because maybe they’ll find out how in the future”, and this dude’s argument is essentially “if you don’t know how to test something it’s literally impossible for it to be true and therefore it shall be rejected, but also scientists always knows the path forward and therefore I don’t have to reevaluate my understanding of science”
"""
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+body: "Besides the fact that it wasn’t actually known if those tests would work, there’s also hypothetical tests for simulation theory (eg. testing for pixelated resolution of spacetime, plus endless “consistency tests”) so doesn’t that make it all the same thing anyway? You’re making much too strong assumptions."
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+body: """
Found via Wikipedia. From the 70’s:\n
\n
> We should perhaps finish our paper with an apology and a caution. We apologize to experimentalists for having no idea what is the mass of the Higgs boson, …, and for not being sure of its couplings to other particles, except that they are probably all very small. For these reasons, we do not want to encourage big experimental searches for the Higgs boson, but we do feel that people doing experiments vulnerable to the Higgs boson should know how it may turn up.\n
\n
— John R. Ellis, Mary K. Gaillard, and Dimitri V. Nanopoulos,\n
\n
> One of the problems was that at the time there was almost no clue to the mass of the Higgs boson. Theoretical considerations left open a very wide range somewhere between 10 GeV/c2[13] and 1000 GeV/c2[14] with no real indication where to look.[1]\n
\n
So you’re literally as wrong as you could be. It wasn’t until what once was a wild hypothesis had been explored more that they could start to make better predictions around where it might be, decades later, and after tests narrowing down where it wasn’t.\n
\n
I didn’t “walk back” either. Exploring multiple possibilities is called hedging, not walking back (since that means you retracted something which I didn’t do), and scientists does it too. I didn’t say either one option is more likely, I told you there are many possibilities and then you insisted on calling several of them impossible not because any mechanics exclude it’s possibility but because you can’t see it. That’s plainly wrong. You can definitely argue it’s improbable, but you don’t get to call it impossible without proving it impossible.
"""
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+body: "You’re conflating things. We have no reason to argue those are true with any certainty, but we still can’t exclude the possibility. It’s the difference of “justified belief” vs coherent theory. Physics have had a ton of theories postulated without evidence where decades later one option was proven true and many others proven false. Under your assumption you shouldn’t have made that theory before it could be tested."
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+body: """
Physicists tends to work with precision in decimals, not multiple orders of magnitude. They didn’t know it would be there either, all they knew is the theory they had would be simpler if it was there than not.\n
\n
Your quote from the website is a bad attempt at backdating current knowledge from very recent research and experiments to the original discoverers\n
\n
[scientificamerican.com/…/how-the-higgs-boson-ruin…](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-the-higgs-boson-ruined-peter-higgss-life/)\n
\n
> The discovery of the Higgs boson came nearly 50 years after Higgs’s prediction, and he said he never expected it to be found in his lifetime.\n
\n
It’s not even known if there’s more than one Higgs boson, because the theory allows multiple variants.\n
\n
Look at that graph of how many different variants would decay differently;\n
\n
[home.cern/…/higgs-boson-revealing-natures-secrets](https://home.cern/news/series/lhc-physics-ten/higgs-boson-revealing-natures-secrets)\n
\n
They had thousands of different predictions and couldn’t know which were right until the data was in.\n
\n
> If, due to its mass, they could only observe the interplay between the Higgs boson on one hand and the W and Z bosons on the other, the puzzle of the fermion masses would remain unsolved. Discovering the particle at a convenient mass was an unexpected kindness from nature. If it were slightly more massive, above 180 GeV or so, the options to study it at the time of its discovery would have been more limited.\n
\n
> The variety of available transformation products means that data from the individual channels can be combined together through sophisticated techniques to build up a greater understanding of the particle. “Doing so is not trivial,” says Giovanni Petrucciani, co-convener of the Higgs analysis group in CMS. “You have to treat the uncertainties similarly across all the individual analyses and interpret the results carefully, once you have applied complicated statistical machinery.” Combining data from the transformation of the Higgs boson to pairs of Z bosons and pairs of photons allowed ATLAS and CMS to discover the Higgs boson in 2012.\n
\n
It was legitimately not known if we could find it. It could have been big enough that LHC would’ve failed, and then it could have taken us 50 more years to build a collider large enough (mostly due to cost, but still)\n
\n
In fact they’re only *mostly* sure still\n
\n
> Yet, the Brout-Englert-Higgs mechanism remains among the least-understood phenomena in the Standard Model. Indeed, while scientists have dropped the “-like” suffix and have understood the Higgs boson remarkably since its discovery, they still do not know if what was observed is the Higgs boson predicted by the Standard Model.\n
\n
You don’t even understand what I’m saying, how can you accuse me of walking back?\n
\n
You keep making unjustified claims even now. What if a simulator knows what you’re looking at and simply don’t mess with that? Clearly not impossible. Implausible? Absolutely, AND I KEEP SAYING SO, there’s no reason to believe it’s happening, *and yet it’s possible*. Your inability to comprehend doesn’t change the meaning of my statements.\n
\n
Your persistence in calling it meaningless because it’s unfalsifiable *with no further context* is equivalent to you calling most theoretical physics meaningless. A ton of theories like string theory is by your standard equally unfalsifiable and therefore we shall declare it impossible and stop investigating.\n
\n
Instead we develop endless hypothetical scenarios specifically so we can look for evidence when new tools for investigating fundamental physics become available.
"""
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#1715
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+title: "Both beliefs are fine, but please realize the hypocrisy"
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+body: "There’s an argument that because some of the physical limits we see around entropy density (due to singularities) are proportional to the area of a sphere around the volume, together with math indicating it’s possible to translate physics in a 3D volume to a 2D surface, the whole universe might be a projection from the 2D surface of a sphere"
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-id: 248782
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6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1697
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+body: "I’m not arguing any specific purpose of controlling a simulation in these ways, just that the arguments saying it wouldn’t happen are too weak. A multipurpose simulation (imagine one shared by many different teams of simulation researchers) could plausibly be used like this where they mess with just about anything and then reset. Doesn’t mean it’s likely, just that it’s unreasonable to exclude the possibility"
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4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1795
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+body: """
You’re conflating “possible” with “probable”, and refusing to address possibilities you don’t have proof of.\n
\n
When higgs bosons were predicted they were untestable. When gravity waves were predicted they were untestable. When black hole rings were predicted they were untestable.\n
\n
Then we discovered how to build the sensors and instruments to test them.\n
\n
You’re saying those scientists should’ve dropped their ideas because at that point it was still impossible to test or falsify.\n
\n
What scientists do instead is to develop many different alternative theories, then design tests and experiments, and then once data is in *then* they decide what do believe about the theories based on what the could prove or not.\n
\n
Edit: why are people like this so aggressively wrong in the dumbest ways… Not only did they pick only one of 3 examples of mine to attack and ignoring the rest, they also did so maximally incorrectly all while failing to understand the consequences of their own policy of rejecting anything you don’t know how to test.\n
\n
The core of my argument is really just “sometimes scientists works on stuff nobody knows how to test, because maybe they’ll find out how in the future”, and this dude’s argument is essentially “if you don’t know how to test something it’s literally impossible for it to be true and therefore it shall be rejected, but also scientists always knows the path forward and therefore I don’t have to reevaluate my understanding of science”
"""
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+body: "Besides the fact that it wasn’t actually known if those tests would work, there’s also hypothetical tests for simulation theory (eg. testing for pixelated resolution of spacetime, plus endless “consistency tests”) so doesn’t that make it all the same thing anyway? You’re making much too strong assumptions."
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+body: """
Physicists tends to work with precision in decimals, not multiple orders of magnitude. They didn’t know it would be there either, all they knew is the theory they had would be simpler if it was there than not.\n
\n
Your quote from the website is a bad attempt at backdating current knowledge from very recent research and experiments to the original discoverers\n
\n
[scientificamerican.com/…/how-the-higgs-boson-ruin…](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-the-higgs-boson-ruined-peter-higgss-life/)\n
\n
> The discovery of the Higgs boson came nearly 50 years after Higgs’s prediction, and he said he never expected it to be found in his lifetime.\n
\n
It’s not even known if there’s more than one Higgs boson, because the theory allows multiple variants.\n
\n
Look at that graph of how many different variants would decay differently;\n
\n
[home.cern/…/higgs-boson-revealing-natures-secrets](https://home.cern/news/series/lhc-physics-ten/higgs-boson-revealing-natures-secrets)\n
\n
They had thousands of different predictions and couldn’t know which were right until the data was in.\n
\n
> If, due to its mass, they could only observe the interplay between the Higgs boson on one hand and the W and Z bosons on the other, the puzzle of the fermion masses would remain unsolved. Discovering the particle at a convenient mass was an unexpected kindness from nature. If it were slightly more massive, above 180 GeV or so, the options to study it at the time of its discovery would have been more limited.\n
\n
> The variety of available transformation products means that data from the individual channels can be combined together through sophisticated techniques to build up a greater understanding of the particle. “Doing so is not trivial,” says Giovanni Petrucciani, co-convener of the Higgs analysis group in CMS. “You have to treat the uncertainties similarly across all the individual analyses and interpret the results carefully, once you have applied complicated statistical machinery.” Combining data from the transformation of the Higgs boson to pairs of Z bosons and pairs of photons allowed ATLAS and CMS to discover the Higgs boson in 2012.\n
\n
It was legitimately not known if we could find it. It could have been big enough that LHC would’ve failed, and then it could have taken us 50 more years to build a collider large enough (mostly due to cost, but still)\n
\n
In fact they’re only *mostly* sure still\n
\n
> Yet, the Brout-Englert-Higgs mechanism remains among the least-understood phenomena in the Standard Model. Indeed, while scientists have dropped the “-like” suffix and have understood the Higgs boson remarkably since its discovery, they still do not know if what was observed is the Higgs boson predicted by the Standard Model.\n
\n
You don’t even understand what I’m saying, how can you accuse me of walking back?\n
\n
You keep making unjustified claims even now. What if a simulator knows what you’re looking at and simply don’t mess with that? Clearly not impossible. Implausible? Absolutely, AND I KEEP SAYING SO, there’s no reason to believe it’s happening, *and yet it’s possible*. Your inability to comprehend doesn’t change the meaning of my statements.\n
\n
Your persistence in calling it meaningless because it’s unfalsifiable *with no further context* is equivalent to you calling most theoretical physics meaningless. A ton of theories like string theory is by your standard equally unfalsifiable and therefore we shall declare it impossible and stop investigating.\n
\n
Instead we develop endless hypothetical scenarios specifically so we can look for evidence when new tools for investigating fundamental physics become available.
"""
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+body: "You’re conflating things. We have no reason to argue those are true with any certainty, but we still can’t exclude the possibility. It’s the difference of “justified belief” vs coherent theory. Physics have had a ton of theories postulated without evidence where decades later one option was proven true and many others proven false. Under your assumption you shouldn’t have made that theory before it could be tested."
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Found via Wikipedia. From the 70’s:\n
\n
> We should perhaps finish our paper with an apology and a caution. We apologize to experimentalists for having no idea what is the mass of the Higgs boson, …, and for not being sure of its couplings to other particles, except that they are probably all very small. For these reasons, we do not want to encourage big experimental searches for the Higgs boson, but we do feel that people doing experiments vulnerable to the Higgs boson should know how it may turn up.\n
\n
— John R. Ellis, Mary K. Gaillard, and Dimitri V. Nanopoulos,\n
\n
> One of the problems was that at the time there was almost no clue to the mass of the Higgs boson. Theoretical considerations left open a very wide range somewhere between 10 GeV/c2[13] and 1000 GeV/c2[14] with no real indication where to look.[1]\n
\n
So you’re literally as wrong as you could be. It wasn’t until what once was a wild hypothesis had been explored more that they could start to make better predictions around where it might be, decades later, and after tests narrowing down where it wasn’t.\n
\n
I didn’t “walk back” either. Exploring multiple possibilities is called hedging, not walking back (since that means you retracted something which I didn’t do), and scientists does it too. I didn’t say either one option is more likely, I told you there are many possibilities and then you insisted on calling several of them impossible not because any mechanics exclude it’s possibility but because you can’t see it. That’s plainly wrong. You can definitely argue it’s improbable, but you don’t get to call it impossible without proving it impossible.
"""
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|
Show voter details
|
71 |
DENIED
|
edit
|
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1715
+user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1592
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+domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2843 …}
+slug: "Both-beliefs-are-fine-but-please-realize-the-hypocrisy"
+title: "Both beliefs are fine, but please realize the hypocrisy"
+url: "https://sh.itjust.works/pictrs/image/7c20a1be-a2cc-4078-881c-894db994be19.jpeg"
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date: 2024-03-27 19:01:23.0 +01:00
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+comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2844 …}
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+children: [
5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1556
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+parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1557 …}
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+body: "There’s an argument that because some of the physical limits we see around entropy density (due to singularities) are proportional to the area of a sphere around the volume, together with math indicating it’s possible to translate physics in a 3D volume to a 2D surface, the whole universe might be a projection from the 2D surface of a sphere"
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-id: 248782
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6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1697
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+body: "I’m not arguing any specific purpose of controlling a simulation in these ways, just that the arguments saying it wouldn’t happen are too weak. A multipurpose simulation (imagine one shared by many different teams of simulation researchers) could plausibly be used like this where they mess with just about anything and then reset. Doesn’t mean it’s likely, just that it’s unreasonable to exclude the possibility"
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"@darcy@sh.itjust.works"
"@dpkonofa@lemmy.world"
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date: 2023-12-24 02:50:31.0 +01:00
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4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1795
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+body: """
You’re conflating “possible” with “probable”, and refusing to address possibilities you don’t have proof of.\n
\n
When higgs bosons were predicted they were untestable. When gravity waves were predicted they were untestable. When black hole rings were predicted they were untestable.\n
\n
Then we discovered how to build the sensors and instruments to test them.\n
\n
You’re saying those scientists should’ve dropped their ideas because at that point it was still impossible to test or falsify.\n
\n
What scientists do instead is to develop many different alternative theories, then design tests and experiments, and then once data is in *then* they decide what do believe about the theories based on what the could prove or not.\n
\n
Edit: why are people like this so aggressively wrong in the dumbest ways… Not only did they pick only one of 3 examples of mine to attack and ignoring the rest, they also did so maximally incorrectly all while failing to understand the consequences of their own policy of rejecting anything you don’t know how to test.\n
\n
The core of my argument is really just “sometimes scientists works on stuff nobody knows how to test, because maybe they’ll find out how in the future”, and this dude’s argument is essentially “if you don’t know how to test something it’s literally impossible for it to be true and therefore it shall be rejected, but also scientists always knows the path forward and therefore I don’t have to reevaluate my understanding of science”
"""
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date: 2024-02-10 17:21:03.0 +01:00
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3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1723
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+body: "Besides the fact that it wasn’t actually known if those tests would work, there’s also hypothetical tests for simulation theory (eg. testing for pixelated resolution of spacetime, plus endless “consistency tests”) so doesn’t that make it all the same thing anyway? You’re making much too strong assumptions."
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2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2462
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+body: """
Physicists tends to work with precision in decimals, not multiple orders of magnitude. They didn’t know it would be there either, all they knew is the theory they had would be simpler if it was there than not.\n
\n
Your quote from the website is a bad attempt at backdating current knowledge from very recent research and experiments to the original discoverers\n
\n
[scientificamerican.com/…/how-the-higgs-boson-ruin…](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-the-higgs-boson-ruined-peter-higgss-life/)\n
\n
> The discovery of the Higgs boson came nearly 50 years after Higgs’s prediction, and he said he never expected it to be found in his lifetime.\n
\n
It’s not even known if there’s more than one Higgs boson, because the theory allows multiple variants.\n
\n
Look at that graph of how many different variants would decay differently;\n
\n
[home.cern/…/higgs-boson-revealing-natures-secrets](https://home.cern/news/series/lhc-physics-ten/higgs-boson-revealing-natures-secrets)\n
\n
They had thousands of different predictions and couldn’t know which were right until the data was in.\n
\n
> If, due to its mass, they could only observe the interplay between the Higgs boson on one hand and the W and Z bosons on the other, the puzzle of the fermion masses would remain unsolved. Discovering the particle at a convenient mass was an unexpected kindness from nature. If it were slightly more massive, above 180 GeV or so, the options to study it at the time of its discovery would have been more limited.\n
\n
> The variety of available transformation products means that data from the individual channels can be combined together through sophisticated techniques to build up a greater understanding of the particle. “Doing so is not trivial,” says Giovanni Petrucciani, co-convener of the Higgs analysis group in CMS. “You have to treat the uncertainties similarly across all the individual analyses and interpret the results carefully, once you have applied complicated statistical machinery.” Combining data from the transformation of the Higgs boson to pairs of Z bosons and pairs of photons allowed ATLAS and CMS to discover the Higgs boson in 2012.\n
\n
It was legitimately not known if we could find it. It could have been big enough that LHC would’ve failed, and then it could have taken us 50 more years to build a collider large enough (mostly due to cost, but still)\n
\n
In fact they’re only *mostly* sure still\n
\n
> Yet, the Brout-Englert-Higgs mechanism remains among the least-understood phenomena in the Standard Model. Indeed, while scientists have dropped the “-like” suffix and have understood the Higgs boson remarkably since its discovery, they still do not know if what was observed is the Higgs boson predicted by the Standard Model.\n
\n
You don’t even understand what I’m saying, how can you accuse me of walking back?\n
\n
You keep making unjustified claims even now. What if a simulator knows what you’re looking at and simply don’t mess with that? Clearly not impossible. Implausible? Absolutely, AND I KEEP SAYING SO, there’s no reason to believe it’s happening, *and yet it’s possible*. Your inability to comprehend doesn’t change the meaning of my statements.\n
\n
Your persistence in calling it meaningless because it’s unfalsifiable *with no further context* is equivalent to you calling most theoretical physics meaningless. A ton of theories like string theory is by your standard equally unfalsifiable and therefore we shall declare it impossible and stop investigating.\n
\n
Instead we develop endless hypothetical scenarios specifically so we can look for evidence when new tools for investigating fundamental physics become available.
"""
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date: 2024-02-10 14:25:21.0 +01:00
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date: 2023-12-24 23:00:12.0 +01:00
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1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1715}
0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1561
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+body: "You’re conflating things. We have no reason to argue those are true with any certainty, but we still can’t exclude the possibility. It’s the difference of “justified belief” vs coherent theory. Physics have had a ton of theories postulated without evidence where decades later one option was proven true and many others proven false. Under your assumption you shouldn’t have made that theory before it could be tested."
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+body: """
Found via Wikipedia. From the 70’s:\n
\n
> We should perhaps finish our paper with an apology and a caution. We apologize to experimentalists for having no idea what is the mass of the Higgs boson, …, and for not being sure of its couplings to other particles, except that they are probably all very small. For these reasons, we do not want to encourage big experimental searches for the Higgs boson, but we do feel that people doing experiments vulnerable to the Higgs boson should know how it may turn up.\n
\n
— John R. Ellis, Mary K. Gaillard, and Dimitri V. Nanopoulos,\n
\n
> One of the problems was that at the time there was almost no clue to the mass of the Higgs boson. Theoretical considerations left open a very wide range somewhere between 10 GeV/c2[13] and 1000 GeV/c2[14] with no real indication where to look.[1]\n
\n
So you’re literally as wrong as you could be. It wasn’t until what once was a wild hypothesis had been explored more that they could start to make better predictions around where it might be, decades later, and after tests narrowing down where it wasn’t.\n
\n
I didn’t “walk back” either. Exploring multiple possibilities is called hedging, not walking back (since that means you retracted something which I didn’t do), and scientists does it too. I didn’t say either one option is more likely, I told you there are many possibilities and then you insisted on calling several of them impossible not because any mechanics exclude it’s possibility but because you can’t see it. That’s plainly wrong. You can definitely argue it’s improbable, but you don’t get to call it impossible without proving it impossible.
"""
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|
Show voter details
|
72 |
DENIED
|
moderate
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#1715
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+slug: "Both-beliefs-are-fine-but-please-realize-the-hypocrisy"
+title: "Both beliefs are fine, but please realize the hypocrisy"
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5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1556
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+body: "There’s an argument that because some of the physical limits we see around entropy density (due to singularities) are proportional to the area of a sphere around the volume, together with math indicating it’s possible to translate physics in a 3D volume to a 2D surface, the whole universe might be a projection from the 2D surface of a sphere"
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+body: "I’m not arguing any specific purpose of controlling a simulation in these ways, just that the arguments saying it wouldn’t happen are too weak. A multipurpose simulation (imagine one shared by many different teams of simulation researchers) could plausibly be used like this where they mess with just about anything and then reset. Doesn’t mean it’s likely, just that it’s unreasonable to exclude the possibility"
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You’re conflating “possible” with “probable”, and refusing to address possibilities you don’t have proof of.\n
\n
When higgs bosons were predicted they were untestable. When gravity waves were predicted they were untestable. When black hole rings were predicted they were untestable.\n
\n
Then we discovered how to build the sensors and instruments to test them.\n
\n
You’re saying those scientists should’ve dropped their ideas because at that point it was still impossible to test or falsify.\n
\n
What scientists do instead is to develop many different alternative theories, then design tests and experiments, and then once data is in *then* they decide what do believe about the theories based on what the could prove or not.\n
\n
Edit: why are people like this so aggressively wrong in the dumbest ways… Not only did they pick only one of 3 examples of mine to attack and ignoring the rest, they also did so maximally incorrectly all while failing to understand the consequences of their own policy of rejecting anything you don’t know how to test.\n
\n
The core of my argument is really just “sometimes scientists works on stuff nobody knows how to test, because maybe they’ll find out how in the future”, and this dude’s argument is essentially “if you don’t know how to test something it’s literally impossible for it to be true and therefore it shall be rejected, but also scientists always knows the path forward and therefore I don’t have to reevaluate my understanding of science”
"""
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+body: "Besides the fact that it wasn’t actually known if those tests would work, there’s also hypothetical tests for simulation theory (eg. testing for pixelated resolution of spacetime, plus endless “consistency tests”) so doesn’t that make it all the same thing anyway? You’re making much too strong assumptions."
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+body: """
Physicists tends to work with precision in decimals, not multiple orders of magnitude. They didn’t know it would be there either, all they knew is the theory they had would be simpler if it was there than not.\n
\n
Your quote from the website is a bad attempt at backdating current knowledge from very recent research and experiments to the original discoverers\n
\n
[scientificamerican.com/…/how-the-higgs-boson-ruin…](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-the-higgs-boson-ruined-peter-higgss-life/)\n
\n
> The discovery of the Higgs boson came nearly 50 years after Higgs’s prediction, and he said he never expected it to be found in his lifetime.\n
\n
It’s not even known if there’s more than one Higgs boson, because the theory allows multiple variants.\n
\n
Look at that graph of how many different variants would decay differently;\n
\n
[home.cern/…/higgs-boson-revealing-natures-secrets](https://home.cern/news/series/lhc-physics-ten/higgs-boson-revealing-natures-secrets)\n
\n
They had thousands of different predictions and couldn’t know which were right until the data was in.\n
\n
> If, due to its mass, they could only observe the interplay between the Higgs boson on one hand and the W and Z bosons on the other, the puzzle of the fermion masses would remain unsolved. Discovering the particle at a convenient mass was an unexpected kindness from nature. If it were slightly more massive, above 180 GeV or so, the options to study it at the time of its discovery would have been more limited.\n
\n
> The variety of available transformation products means that data from the individual channels can be combined together through sophisticated techniques to build up a greater understanding of the particle. “Doing so is not trivial,” says Giovanni Petrucciani, co-convener of the Higgs analysis group in CMS. “You have to treat the uncertainties similarly across all the individual analyses and interpret the results carefully, once you have applied complicated statistical machinery.” Combining data from the transformation of the Higgs boson to pairs of Z bosons and pairs of photons allowed ATLAS and CMS to discover the Higgs boson in 2012.\n
\n
It was legitimately not known if we could find it. It could have been big enough that LHC would’ve failed, and then it could have taken us 50 more years to build a collider large enough (mostly due to cost, but still)\n
\n
In fact they’re only *mostly* sure still\n
\n
> Yet, the Brout-Englert-Higgs mechanism remains among the least-understood phenomena in the Standard Model. Indeed, while scientists have dropped the “-like” suffix and have understood the Higgs boson remarkably since its discovery, they still do not know if what was observed is the Higgs boson predicted by the Standard Model.\n
\n
You don’t even understand what I’m saying, how can you accuse me of walking back?\n
\n
You keep making unjustified claims even now. What if a simulator knows what you’re looking at and simply don’t mess with that? Clearly not impossible. Implausible? Absolutely, AND I KEEP SAYING SO, there’s no reason to believe it’s happening, *and yet it’s possible*. Your inability to comprehend doesn’t change the meaning of my statements.\n
\n
Your persistence in calling it meaningless because it’s unfalsifiable *with no further context* is equivalent to you calling most theoretical physics meaningless. A ton of theories like string theory is by your standard equally unfalsifiable and therefore we shall declare it impossible and stop investigating.\n
\n
Instead we develop endless hypothetical scenarios specifically so we can look for evidence when new tools for investigating fundamental physics become available.
"""
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date: 2024-02-10 14:25:21.0 +01:00
}
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date: 2023-12-24 23:00:12.0 +01:00
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}
1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1715}
0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1561
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+body: "You’re conflating things. We have no reason to argue those are true with any certainty, but we still can’t exclude the possibility. It’s the difference of “justified belief” vs coherent theory. Physics have had a ton of theories postulated without evidence where decades later one option was proven true and many others proven false. Under your assumption you shouldn’t have made that theory before it could be tested."
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…2
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+body: """
Found via Wikipedia. From the 70’s:\n
\n
> We should perhaps finish our paper with an apology and a caution. We apologize to experimentalists for having no idea what is the mass of the Higgs boson, …, and for not being sure of its couplings to other particles, except that they are probably all very small. For these reasons, we do not want to encourage big experimental searches for the Higgs boson, but we do feel that people doing experiments vulnerable to the Higgs boson should know how it may turn up.\n
\n
— John R. Ellis, Mary K. Gaillard, and Dimitri V. Nanopoulos,\n
\n
> One of the problems was that at the time there was almost no clue to the mass of the Higgs boson. Theoretical considerations left open a very wide range somewhere between 10 GeV/c2[13] and 1000 GeV/c2[14] with no real indication where to look.[1]\n
\n
So you’re literally as wrong as you could be. It wasn’t until what once was a wild hypothesis had been explored more that they could start to make better predictions around where it might be, decades later, and after tests narrowing down where it wasn’t.\n
\n
I didn’t “walk back” either. Exploring multiple possibilities is called hedging, not walking back (since that means you retracted something which I didn’t do), and scientists does it too. I didn’t say either one option is more likely, I told you there are many possibilities and then you insisted on calling several of them impossible not because any mechanics exclude it’s possibility but because you can’t see it. That’s plainly wrong. You can definitely argue it’s improbable, but you don’t get to call it impossible without proving it impossible.
"""
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#1561
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+slug: "Both-beliefs-are-fine-but-please-realize-the-hypocrisy"
+title: "Both beliefs are fine, but please realize the hypocrisy"
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5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1556
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+body: "There’s an argument that because some of the physical limits we see around entropy density (due to singularities) are proportional to the area of a sphere around the volume, together with math indicating it’s possible to translate physics in a 3D volume to a 2D surface, the whole universe might be a projection from the 2D surface of a sphere"
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6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1697
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+body: "I’m not arguing any specific purpose of controlling a simulation in these ways, just that the arguments saying it wouldn’t happen are too weak. A multipurpose simulation (imagine one shared by many different teams of simulation researchers) could plausibly be used like this where they mess with just about anything and then reset. Doesn’t mean it’s likely, just that it’s unreasonable to exclude the possibility"
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4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1795
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+body: """
You’re conflating “possible” with “probable”, and refusing to address possibilities you don’t have proof of.\n
\n
When higgs bosons were predicted they were untestable. When gravity waves were predicted they were untestable. When black hole rings were predicted they were untestable.\n
\n
Then we discovered how to build the sensors and instruments to test them.\n
\n
You’re saying those scientists should’ve dropped their ideas because at that point it was still impossible to test or falsify.\n
\n
What scientists do instead is to develop many different alternative theories, then design tests and experiments, and then once data is in *then* they decide what do believe about the theories based on what the could prove or not.\n
\n
Edit: why are people like this so aggressively wrong in the dumbest ways… Not only did they pick only one of 3 examples of mine to attack and ignoring the rest, they also did so maximally incorrectly all while failing to understand the consequences of their own policy of rejecting anything you don’t know how to test.\n
\n
The core of my argument is really just “sometimes scientists works on stuff nobody knows how to test, because maybe they’ll find out how in the future”, and this dude’s argument is essentially “if you don’t know how to test something it’s literally impossible for it to be true and therefore it shall be rejected, but also scientists always knows the path forward and therefore I don’t have to reevaluate my understanding of science”
"""
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3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1723
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+body: "Besides the fact that it wasn’t actually known if those tests would work, there’s also hypothetical tests for simulation theory (eg. testing for pixelated resolution of spacetime, plus endless “consistency tests”) so doesn’t that make it all the same thing anyway? You’re making much too strong assumptions."
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2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2462
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Physicists tends to work with precision in decimals, not multiple orders of magnitude. They didn’t know it would be there either, all they knew is the theory they had would be simpler if it was there than not.\n
\n
Your quote from the website is a bad attempt at backdating current knowledge from very recent research and experiments to the original discoverers\n
\n
[scientificamerican.com/…/how-the-higgs-boson-ruin…](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-the-higgs-boson-ruined-peter-higgss-life/)\n
\n
> The discovery of the Higgs boson came nearly 50 years after Higgs’s prediction, and he said he never expected it to be found in his lifetime.\n
\n
It’s not even known if there’s more than one Higgs boson, because the theory allows multiple variants.\n
\n
Look at that graph of how many different variants would decay differently;\n
\n
[home.cern/…/higgs-boson-revealing-natures-secrets](https://home.cern/news/series/lhc-physics-ten/higgs-boson-revealing-natures-secrets)\n
\n
They had thousands of different predictions and couldn’t know which were right until the data was in.\n
\n
> If, due to its mass, they could only observe the interplay between the Higgs boson on one hand and the W and Z bosons on the other, the puzzle of the fermion masses would remain unsolved. Discovering the particle at a convenient mass was an unexpected kindness from nature. If it were slightly more massive, above 180 GeV or so, the options to study it at the time of its discovery would have been more limited.\n
\n
> The variety of available transformation products means that data from the individual channels can be combined together through sophisticated techniques to build up a greater understanding of the particle. “Doing so is not trivial,” says Giovanni Petrucciani, co-convener of the Higgs analysis group in CMS. “You have to treat the uncertainties similarly across all the individual analyses and interpret the results carefully, once you have applied complicated statistical machinery.” Combining data from the transformation of the Higgs boson to pairs of Z bosons and pairs of photons allowed ATLAS and CMS to discover the Higgs boson in 2012.\n
\n
It was legitimately not known if we could find it. It could have been big enough that LHC would’ve failed, and then it could have taken us 50 more years to build a collider large enough (mostly due to cost, but still)\n
\n
In fact they’re only *mostly* sure still\n
\n
> Yet, the Brout-Englert-Higgs mechanism remains among the least-understood phenomena in the Standard Model. Indeed, while scientists have dropped the “-like” suffix and have understood the Higgs boson remarkably since its discovery, they still do not know if what was observed is the Higgs boson predicted by the Standard Model.\n
\n
You don’t even understand what I’m saying, how can you accuse me of walking back?\n
\n
You keep making unjustified claims even now. What if a simulator knows what you’re looking at and simply don’t mess with that? Clearly not impossible. Implausible? Absolutely, AND I KEEP SAYING SO, there’s no reason to believe it’s happening, *and yet it’s possible*. Your inability to comprehend doesn’t change the meaning of my statements.\n
\n
Your persistence in calling it meaningless because it’s unfalsifiable *with no further context* is equivalent to you calling most theoretical physics meaningless. A ton of theories like string theory is by your standard equally unfalsifiable and therefore we shall declare it impossible and stop investigating.\n
\n
Instead we develop endless hypothetical scenarios specifically so we can look for evidence when new tools for investigating fundamental physics become available.
"""
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+body: """
Found via Wikipedia. From the 70’s:\n
\n
> We should perhaps finish our paper with an apology and a caution. We apologize to experimentalists for having no idea what is the mass of the Higgs boson, …, and for not being sure of its couplings to other particles, except that they are probably all very small. For these reasons, we do not want to encourage big experimental searches for the Higgs boson, but we do feel that people doing experiments vulnerable to the Higgs boson should know how it may turn up.\n
\n
— John R. Ellis, Mary K. Gaillard, and Dimitri V. Nanopoulos,\n
\n
> One of the problems was that at the time there was almost no clue to the mass of the Higgs boson. Theoretical considerations left open a very wide range somewhere between 10 GeV/c2[13] and 1000 GeV/c2[14] with no real indication where to look.[1]\n
\n
So you’re literally as wrong as you could be. It wasn’t until what once was a wild hypothesis had been explored more that they could start to make better predictions around where it might be, decades later, and after tests narrowing down where it wasn’t.\n
\n
I didn’t “walk back” either. Exploring multiple possibilities is called hedging, not walking back (since that means you retracted something which I didn’t do), and scientists does it too. I didn’t say either one option is more likely, I told you there are many possibilities and then you insisted on calling several of them impossible not because any mechanics exclude it’s possibility but because you can’t see it. That’s plainly wrong. You can definitely argue it’s improbable, but you don’t get to call it impossible without proving it impossible.
"""
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0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1561}
]
-id: 24127
-titleTs: "'belief':2 'fine':4 'hypocrisi':9 'pleas':6 'realiz':7"
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+body: "You’re conflating things. We have no reason to argue those are true with any certainty, but we still can’t exclude the possibility. It’s the difference of “justified belief” vs coherent theory. Physics have had a ton of theories postulated without evidence where decades later one option was proven true and many others proven false. Under your assumption you shouldn’t have made that theory before it could be tested."
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|
Show voter details
|
75 |
DENIED
|
edit
|
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1561
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+slug: "Both-beliefs-are-fine-but-please-realize-the-hypocrisy"
+title: "Both beliefs are fine, but please realize the hypocrisy"
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5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1556
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+body: "There’s an argument that because some of the physical limits we see around entropy density (due to singularities) are proportional to the area of a sphere around the volume, together with math indicating it’s possible to translate physics in a 3D volume to a 2D surface, the whole universe might be a projection from the 2D surface of a sphere"
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+body: "I’m not arguing any specific purpose of controlling a simulation in these ways, just that the arguments saying it wouldn’t happen are too weak. A multipurpose simulation (imagine one shared by many different teams of simulation researchers) could plausibly be used like this where they mess with just about anything and then reset. Doesn’t mean it’s likely, just that it’s unreasonable to exclude the possibility"
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+body: """
You’re conflating “possible” with “probable”, and refusing to address possibilities you don’t have proof of.\n
\n
When higgs bosons were predicted they were untestable. When gravity waves were predicted they were untestable. When black hole rings were predicted they were untestable.\n
\n
Then we discovered how to build the sensors and instruments to test them.\n
\n
You’re saying those scientists should’ve dropped their ideas because at that point it was still impossible to test or falsify.\n
\n
What scientists do instead is to develop many different alternative theories, then design tests and experiments, and then once data is in *then* they decide what do believe about the theories based on what the could prove or not.\n
\n
Edit: why are people like this so aggressively wrong in the dumbest ways… Not only did they pick only one of 3 examples of mine to attack and ignoring the rest, they also did so maximally incorrectly all while failing to understand the consequences of their own policy of rejecting anything you don’t know how to test.\n
\n
The core of my argument is really just “sometimes scientists works on stuff nobody knows how to test, because maybe they’ll find out how in the future”, and this dude’s argument is essentially “if you don’t know how to test something it’s literally impossible for it to be true and therefore it shall be rejected, but also scientists always knows the path forward and therefore I don’t have to reevaluate my understanding of science”
"""
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3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1723
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+body: "Besides the fact that it wasn’t actually known if those tests would work, there’s also hypothetical tests for simulation theory (eg. testing for pixelated resolution of spacetime, plus endless “consistency tests”) so doesn’t that make it all the same thing anyway? You’re making much too strong assumptions."
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2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2462
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+body: """
Physicists tends to work with precision in decimals, not multiple orders of magnitude. They didn’t know it would be there either, all they knew is the theory they had would be simpler if it was there than not.\n
\n
Your quote from the website is a bad attempt at backdating current knowledge from very recent research and experiments to the original discoverers\n
\n
[scientificamerican.com/…/how-the-higgs-boson-ruin…](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-the-higgs-boson-ruined-peter-higgss-life/)\n
\n
> The discovery of the Higgs boson came nearly 50 years after Higgs’s prediction, and he said he never expected it to be found in his lifetime.\n
\n
It’s not even known if there’s more than one Higgs boson, because the theory allows multiple variants.\n
\n
Look at that graph of how many different variants would decay differently;\n
\n
[home.cern/…/higgs-boson-revealing-natures-secrets](https://home.cern/news/series/lhc-physics-ten/higgs-boson-revealing-natures-secrets)\n
\n
They had thousands of different predictions and couldn’t know which were right until the data was in.\n
\n
> If, due to its mass, they could only observe the interplay between the Higgs boson on one hand and the W and Z bosons on the other, the puzzle of the fermion masses would remain unsolved. Discovering the particle at a convenient mass was an unexpected kindness from nature. If it were slightly more massive, above 180 GeV or so, the options to study it at the time of its discovery would have been more limited.\n
\n
> The variety of available transformation products means that data from the individual channels can be combined together through sophisticated techniques to build up a greater understanding of the particle. “Doing so is not trivial,” says Giovanni Petrucciani, co-convener of the Higgs analysis group in CMS. “You have to treat the uncertainties similarly across all the individual analyses and interpret the results carefully, once you have applied complicated statistical machinery.” Combining data from the transformation of the Higgs boson to pairs of Z bosons and pairs of photons allowed ATLAS and CMS to discover the Higgs boson in 2012.\n
\n
It was legitimately not known if we could find it. It could have been big enough that LHC would’ve failed, and then it could have taken us 50 more years to build a collider large enough (mostly due to cost, but still)\n
\n
In fact they’re only *mostly* sure still\n
\n
> Yet, the Brout-Englert-Higgs mechanism remains among the least-understood phenomena in the Standard Model. Indeed, while scientists have dropped the “-like” suffix and have understood the Higgs boson remarkably since its discovery, they still do not know if what was observed is the Higgs boson predicted by the Standard Model.\n
\n
You don’t even understand what I’m saying, how can you accuse me of walking back?\n
\n
You keep making unjustified claims even now. What if a simulator knows what you’re looking at and simply don’t mess with that? Clearly not impossible. Implausible? Absolutely, AND I KEEP SAYING SO, there’s no reason to believe it’s happening, *and yet it’s possible*. Your inability to comprehend doesn’t change the meaning of my statements.\n
\n
Your persistence in calling it meaningless because it’s unfalsifiable *with no further context* is equivalent to you calling most theoretical physics meaningless. A ton of theories like string theory is by your standard equally unfalsifiable and therefore we shall declare it impossible and stop investigating.\n
\n
Instead we develop endless hypothetical scenarios specifically so we can look for evidence when new tools for investigating fundamental physics become available.
"""
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1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1715
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+body: """
Found via Wikipedia. From the 70’s:\n
\n
> We should perhaps finish our paper with an apology and a caution. We apologize to experimentalists for having no idea what is the mass of the Higgs boson, …, and for not being sure of its couplings to other particles, except that they are probably all very small. For these reasons, we do not want to encourage big experimental searches for the Higgs boson, but we do feel that people doing experiments vulnerable to the Higgs boson should know how it may turn up.\n
\n
— John R. Ellis, Mary K. Gaillard, and Dimitri V. Nanopoulos,\n
\n
> One of the problems was that at the time there was almost no clue to the mass of the Higgs boson. Theoretical considerations left open a very wide range somewhere between 10 GeV/c2[13] and 1000 GeV/c2[14] with no real indication where to look.[1]\n
\n
So you’re literally as wrong as you could be. It wasn’t until what once was a wild hypothesis had been explored more that they could start to make better predictions around where it might be, decades later, and after tests narrowing down where it wasn’t.\n
\n
I didn’t “walk back” either. Exploring multiple possibilities is called hedging, not walking back (since that means you retracted something which I didn’t do), and scientists does it too. I didn’t say either one option is more likely, I told you there are many possibilities and then you insisted on calling several of them impossible not because any mechanics exclude it’s possibility but because you can’t see it. That’s plainly wrong. You can definitely argue it’s improbable, but you don’t get to call it impossible without proving it impossible.
"""
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0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1561}
]
-id: 24127
-titleTs: "'belief':2 'fine':4 'hypocrisi':9 'pleas':6 'realiz':7"
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…2
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+body: "You’re conflating things. We have no reason to argue those are true with any certainty, but we still can’t exclude the possibility. It’s the difference of “justified belief” vs coherent theory. Physics have had a ton of theories postulated without evidence where decades later one option was proven true and many others proven false. Under your assumption you shouldn’t have made that theory before it could be tested."
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} |
|
Show voter details
|
76 |
DENIED
|
moderate
|
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1561
+user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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+slug: "Both-beliefs-are-fine-but-please-realize-the-hypocrisy"
+title: "Both beliefs are fine, but please realize the hypocrisy"
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5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1556
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+body: "There’s an argument that because some of the physical limits we see around entropy density (due to singularities) are proportional to the area of a sphere around the volume, together with math indicating it’s possible to translate physics in a 3D volume to a 2D surface, the whole universe might be a projection from the 2D surface of a sphere"
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6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1697
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+body: "I’m not arguing any specific purpose of controlling a simulation in these ways, just that the arguments saying it wouldn’t happen are too weak. A multipurpose simulation (imagine one shared by many different teams of simulation researchers) could plausibly be used like this where they mess with just about anything and then reset. Doesn’t mean it’s likely, just that it’s unreasonable to exclude the possibility"
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4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1795
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+body: """
You’re conflating “possible” with “probable”, and refusing to address possibilities you don’t have proof of.\n
\n
When higgs bosons were predicted they were untestable. When gravity waves were predicted they were untestable. When black hole rings were predicted they were untestable.\n
\n
Then we discovered how to build the sensors and instruments to test them.\n
\n
You’re saying those scientists should’ve dropped their ideas because at that point it was still impossible to test or falsify.\n
\n
What scientists do instead is to develop many different alternative theories, then design tests and experiments, and then once data is in *then* they decide what do believe about the theories based on what the could prove or not.\n
\n
Edit: why are people like this so aggressively wrong in the dumbest ways… Not only did they pick only one of 3 examples of mine to attack and ignoring the rest, they also did so maximally incorrectly all while failing to understand the consequences of their own policy of rejecting anything you don’t know how to test.\n
\n
The core of my argument is really just “sometimes scientists works on stuff nobody knows how to test, because maybe they’ll find out how in the future”, and this dude’s argument is essentially “if you don’t know how to test something it’s literally impossible for it to be true and therefore it shall be rejected, but also scientists always knows the path forward and therefore I don’t have to reevaluate my understanding of science”
"""
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3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1723
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+body: "Besides the fact that it wasn’t actually known if those tests would work, there’s also hypothetical tests for simulation theory (eg. testing for pixelated resolution of spacetime, plus endless “consistency tests”) so doesn’t that make it all the same thing anyway? You’re making much too strong assumptions."
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2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2462
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+body: """
Physicists tends to work with precision in decimals, not multiple orders of magnitude. They didn’t know it would be there either, all they knew is the theory they had would be simpler if it was there than not.\n
\n
Your quote from the website is a bad attempt at backdating current knowledge from very recent research and experiments to the original discoverers\n
\n
[scientificamerican.com/…/how-the-higgs-boson-ruin…](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-the-higgs-boson-ruined-peter-higgss-life/)\n
\n
> The discovery of the Higgs boson came nearly 50 years after Higgs’s prediction, and he said he never expected it to be found in his lifetime.\n
\n
It’s not even known if there’s more than one Higgs boson, because the theory allows multiple variants.\n
\n
Look at that graph of how many different variants would decay differently;\n
\n
[home.cern/…/higgs-boson-revealing-natures-secrets](https://home.cern/news/series/lhc-physics-ten/higgs-boson-revealing-natures-secrets)\n
\n
They had thousands of different predictions and couldn’t know which were right until the data was in.\n
\n
> If, due to its mass, they could only observe the interplay between the Higgs boson on one hand and the W and Z bosons on the other, the puzzle of the fermion masses would remain unsolved. Discovering the particle at a convenient mass was an unexpected kindness from nature. If it were slightly more massive, above 180 GeV or so, the options to study it at the time of its discovery would have been more limited.\n
\n
> The variety of available transformation products means that data from the individual channels can be combined together through sophisticated techniques to build up a greater understanding of the particle. “Doing so is not trivial,” says Giovanni Petrucciani, co-convener of the Higgs analysis group in CMS. “You have to treat the uncertainties similarly across all the individual analyses and interpret the results carefully, once you have applied complicated statistical machinery.” Combining data from the transformation of the Higgs boson to pairs of Z bosons and pairs of photons allowed ATLAS and CMS to discover the Higgs boson in 2012.\n
\n
It was legitimately not known if we could find it. It could have been big enough that LHC would’ve failed, and then it could have taken us 50 more years to build a collider large enough (mostly due to cost, but still)\n
\n
In fact they’re only *mostly* sure still\n
\n
> Yet, the Brout-Englert-Higgs mechanism remains among the least-understood phenomena in the Standard Model. Indeed, while scientists have dropped the “-like” suffix and have understood the Higgs boson remarkably since its discovery, they still do not know if what was observed is the Higgs boson predicted by the Standard Model.\n
\n
You don’t even understand what I’m saying, how can you accuse me of walking back?\n
\n
You keep making unjustified claims even now. What if a simulator knows what you’re looking at and simply don’t mess with that? Clearly not impossible. Implausible? Absolutely, AND I KEEP SAYING SO, there’s no reason to believe it’s happening, *and yet it’s possible*. Your inability to comprehend doesn’t change the meaning of my statements.\n
\n
Your persistence in calling it meaningless because it’s unfalsifiable *with no further context* is equivalent to you calling most theoretical physics meaningless. A ton of theories like string theory is by your standard equally unfalsifiable and therefore we shall declare it impossible and stop investigating.\n
\n
Instead we develop endless hypothetical scenarios specifically so we can look for evidence when new tools for investigating fundamental physics become available.
"""
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1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1715
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+body: """
Found via Wikipedia. From the 70’s:\n
\n
> We should perhaps finish our paper with an apology and a caution. We apologize to experimentalists for having no idea what is the mass of the Higgs boson, …, and for not being sure of its couplings to other particles, except that they are probably all very small. For these reasons, we do not want to encourage big experimental searches for the Higgs boson, but we do feel that people doing experiments vulnerable to the Higgs boson should know how it may turn up.\n
\n
— John R. Ellis, Mary K. Gaillard, and Dimitri V. Nanopoulos,\n
\n
> One of the problems was that at the time there was almost no clue to the mass of the Higgs boson. Theoretical considerations left open a very wide range somewhere between 10 GeV/c2[13] and 1000 GeV/c2[14] with no real indication where to look.[1]\n
\n
So you’re literally as wrong as you could be. It wasn’t until what once was a wild hypothesis had been explored more that they could start to make better predictions around where it might be, decades later, and after tests narrowing down where it wasn’t.\n
\n
I didn’t “walk back” either. Exploring multiple possibilities is called hedging, not walking back (since that means you retracted something which I didn’t do), and scientists does it too. I didn’t say either one option is more likely, I told you there are many possibilities and then you insisted on calling several of them impossible not because any mechanics exclude it’s possibility but because you can’t see it. That’s plainly wrong. You can definitely argue it’s improbable, but you don’t get to call it impossible without proving it impossible.
"""
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0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1561}
]
-id: 24127
-titleTs: "'belief':2 'fine':4 'hypocrisi':9 'pleas':6 'realiz':7"
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+body: "You’re conflating things. We have no reason to argue those are true with any certainty, but we still can’t exclude the possibility. It’s the difference of “justified belief” vs coherent theory. Physics have had a ton of theories postulated without evidence where decades later one option was proven true and many others proven false. Under your assumption you shouldn’t have made that theory before it could be tested."
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Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2160
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date: 2024-07-30 21:54:57.0 +02:00
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+comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2864 …}
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#2161
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+body: """
Depends on implementation.\n
\n
There’s a hierarchy called cardinality, and any two infinitives that can be cleanly mapped 1:1 are considered equal even if one “looks” bigger, like in the example from OP where you can map 100x 1 dollar bills to each 100 dollar bill into infinity and not encounter any “unmappable” units, etc.\n
\n
So filling an infinite 3D volume with paper bills is practically equivalent to filling a line within the volume, because you can map an infinite line onto a growing spiral or cube where you keep adding more units to fill one surface. If you OTOH assumed bills with zero thickness you can have some fun with cardinalities and have different sized of infinities!
"""
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date: 2024-01-06 18:07:31.0 +01:00
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…2
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|
Show voter details
|
79 |
DENIED
|
edit
|
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2160
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+parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2163 …}
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+body: """
Depends on implementation.\n
\n
There’s a hierarchy called cardinality, and any two infinitives that can be cleanly mapped 1:1 are considered equal even if one “looks” bigger, like in the example from OP where you can map 100x 1 dollar bills to each 100 dollar bill into infinity and not encounter any “unmappable” units, etc.\n
\n
So filling an infinite 3D volume with paper bills is practically equivalent to filling a line within the volume, because you can map an infinite line onto a growing spiral or cube where you keep adding more units to fill one surface. If you OTOH assumed bills with zero thickness you can have some fun with cardinalities and have different sized of infinities!
"""
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date: 2024-01-06 18:07:31.0 +01:00
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…2
} |
|
Show voter details
|
80 |
DENIED
|
moderate
|
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2160
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}
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+parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2163 …}
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+body: """
Depends on implementation.\n
\n
There’s a hierarchy called cardinality, and any two infinitives that can be cleanly mapped 1:1 are considered equal even if one “looks” bigger, like in the example from OP where you can map 100x 1 dollar bills to each 100 dollar bill into infinity and not encounter any “unmappable” units, etc.\n
\n
So filling an infinite 3D volume with paper bills is practically equivalent to filling a line within the volume, because you can map an infinite line onto a growing spiral or cube where you keep adding more units to fill one surface. If you OTOH assumed bills with zero thickness you can have some fun with cardinalities and have different sized of infinities!
"""
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date: 2024-01-06 18:07:31.0 +01:00
}
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…2
} |
|
Show voter details
|
81 |
DENIED
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ROLE_USER
|
null |
|
Show voter details
|
82 |
DENIED
|
moderate
|
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2161
+user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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date: 2024-01-06 18:07:31.0 +01:00
}
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…2
}
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+body: """
Depends on implementation.\n
\n
There’s a hierarchy called cardinality, and any two infinitives that can be cleanly mapped 1:1 are considered equal even if one “looks” bigger, like in the example from OP where you can map 100x 1 dollar bills to each 100 dollar bill into infinity and not encounter any “unmappable” units, etc.\n
\n
So filling an infinite 3D volume with paper bills is practically equivalent to filling a line within the volume, because you can map an infinite line onto a growing spiral or cube where you keep adding more units to fill one surface. If you OTOH assumed bills with zero thickness you can have some fun with cardinalities and have different sized of infinities!
"""
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}
+"title": 288275
} |
|
Show voter details
|
83 |
DENIED
|
edit
|
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2161
+user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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date: 2024-01-06 18:07:31.0 +01:00
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}
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Depends on implementation.\n
\n
There’s a hierarchy called cardinality, and any two infinitives that can be cleanly mapped 1:1 are considered equal even if one “looks” bigger, like in the example from OP where you can map 100x 1 dollar bills to each 100 dollar bill into infinity and not encounter any “unmappable” units, etc.\n
\n
So filling an infinite 3D volume with paper bills is practically equivalent to filling a line within the volume, because you can map an infinite line onto a growing spiral or cube where you keep adding more units to fill one surface. If you OTOH assumed bills with zero thickness you can have some fun with cardinalities and have different sized of infinities!
"""
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Show voter details
|
84 |
DENIED
|
moderate
|
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2161
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Depends on implementation.\n
\n
There’s a hierarchy called cardinality, and any two infinitives that can be cleanly mapped 1:1 are considered equal even if one “looks” bigger, like in the example from OP where you can map 100x 1 dollar bills to each 100 dollar bill into infinity and not encounter any “unmappable” units, etc.\n
\n
So filling an infinite 3D volume with paper bills is practically equivalent to filling a line within the volume, because you can map an infinite line onto a growing spiral or cube where you keep adding more units to fill one surface. If you OTOH assumed bills with zero thickness you can have some fun with cardinalities and have different sized of infinities!
"""
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Show voter details
|
85 |
DENIED
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ROLE_USER
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null |
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Show voter details
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86 |
DENIED
|
moderate
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Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2221
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> Timothée Besset, a software engineer who works on the Steam client for Valve, took to Mastodon this week to reveal: “Valve is seeing an increasing number of bug reports for issues caused by Canonical’s repackaging of the Steam client through snap”.\n
\n
> “We are not involved with the snap repackaging. It has a lot of issues”, Besset adds, noting that “the best way to install Steam on Debian and derivative operating systems is to […] use the official .deb”.\n
\n
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Show voter details
|
87 |
DENIED
|
edit
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Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2221
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|
Show voter details
|
88 |
DENIED
|
moderate
|
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2221
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} |
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Show voter details
|
89 |
DENIED
|
ROLE_USER
|
null |
|
Show voter details
|
90 |
DENIED
|
moderate
|
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2222
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91 |
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\n
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92 |
DENIED
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#2222
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93 |
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Show voter details
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Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2050
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95 |
DENIED
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edit
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Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2050
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96 |
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Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2050
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97 |
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99 |
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Show voter details
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100 |
DENIED
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moderate
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#2057
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Show voter details
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101 |
DENIED
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ROLE_USER
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null |
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Show voter details
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102 |
DENIED
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moderate
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Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2300
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You can always drag out the signal to frequency shift it or something similar. It’s done all the time in astronomy as an example to create visualizations.\n
\n
Waveform example here;\n
\n
[ques10.com/…/sketch-composite-video-signal-wavefo…](https://www.ques10.com/p/26463/sketch-composite-video-signal-waveform-for-at-leas/)\n
\n
[wla.berkeley.edu/~cs150/sp99/…/compvideo.htm](http://wla.berkeley.edu/~cs150/sp99/sp99/project/compvideo.htm)
"""
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Show voter details
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103 |
DENIED
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edit
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Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2300
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You can always drag out the signal to frequency shift it or something similar. It’s done all the time in astronomy as an example to create visualizations.\n
\n
Waveform example here;\n
\n
[ques10.com/…/sketch-composite-video-signal-wavefo…](https://www.ques10.com/p/26463/sketch-composite-video-signal-waveform-for-at-leas/)\n
\n
[wla.berkeley.edu/~cs150/sp99/…/compvideo.htm](http://wla.berkeley.edu/~cs150/sp99/sp99/project/compvideo.htm)
"""
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Show voter details
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104 |
DENIED
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moderate
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Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2300
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You can always drag out the signal to frequency shift it or something similar. It’s done all the time in astronomy as an example to create visualizations.\n
\n
Waveform example here;\n
\n
[ques10.com/…/sketch-composite-video-signal-wavefo…](https://www.ques10.com/p/26463/sketch-composite-video-signal-waveform-for-at-leas/)\n
\n
[wla.berkeley.edu/~cs150/sp99/…/compvideo.htm](http://wla.berkeley.edu/~cs150/sp99/sp99/project/compvideo.htm)
"""
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105 |
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Show voter details
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#2324
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You can always drag out the signal to frequency shift it or something similar. It’s done all the time in astronomy as an example to create visualizations.\n
\n
Waveform example here;\n
\n
[ques10.com/…/sketch-composite-video-signal-wavefo…](https://www.ques10.com/p/26463/sketch-composite-video-signal-waveform-for-at-leas/)\n
\n
[wla.berkeley.edu/~cs150/sp99/…/compvideo.htm](http://wla.berkeley.edu/~cs150/sp99/sp99/project/compvideo.htm)
"""
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107 |
DENIED
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edit
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#2324
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+body: """
You can always drag out the signal to frequency shift it or something similar. It’s done all the time in astronomy as an example to create visualizations.\n
\n
Waveform example here;\n
\n
[ques10.com/…/sketch-composite-video-signal-wavefo…](https://www.ques10.com/p/26463/sketch-composite-video-signal-waveform-for-at-leas/)\n
\n
[wla.berkeley.edu/~cs150/sp99/…/compvideo.htm](http://wla.berkeley.edu/~cs150/sp99/sp99/project/compvideo.htm)
"""
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Show voter details
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108 |
DENIED
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moderate
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#2324
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+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2300
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You can always drag out the signal to frequency shift it or something similar. It’s done all the time in astronomy as an example to create visualizations.\n
\n
Waveform example here;\n
\n
[ques10.com/…/sketch-composite-video-signal-wavefo…](https://www.ques10.com/p/26463/sketch-composite-video-signal-waveform-for-at-leas/)\n
\n
[wla.berkeley.edu/~cs150/sp99/…/compvideo.htm](http://wla.berkeley.edu/~cs150/sp99/sp99/project/compvideo.htm)
"""
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Show voter details
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109 |
DENIED
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ROLE_USER
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null |
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Show voter details
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110 |
DENIED
|
moderate
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Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2320
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2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2212
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|
Show voter details
|
111 |
DENIED
|
edit
|
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2320
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112 |
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113 |
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Show voter details
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115 |
DENIED
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116 |
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117 |
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Show voter details
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DENIED
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119 |
DENIED
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Show voter details
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120 |
DENIED
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moderate
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#2212
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123 |
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124 |
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131 |
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132 |
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Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2363
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135 |
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edit
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Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2363
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136 |
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moderate
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Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2363
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137 |
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Show voter details
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138 |
DENIED
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moderate
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#2371
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139 |
DENIED
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edit
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#2371
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Show voter details
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140 |
DENIED
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moderate
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#2371
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141 |
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142 |
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