GET https://kbin.spritesserver.nl/u/@muddi@hexbear.net/newest/2023-10-13::2023-10-13

Response
200 OK
IP
3.17.156.160
Profiled on
Token
0b206e

Security

Token

There is no security token.

Firewall

main Name
Security enabled
Stateless

Configuration

Key Value
provider security.user.provider.concrete.app_user_provider
context main
entry_point App\Security\KbinAuthenticator
user_checker App\Security\UserChecker
access_denied_handler (none)
access_denied_url (none)
authenticators 
[
  "two_factor"
  "remember_me"
  "App\Security\KbinAuthenticator"
  "App\Security\FacebookAuthenticator"
  "App\Security\GoogleAuthenticator"
  "App\Security\GithubAuthenticator"
  "App\Security\KeycloakAuthenticator"
]

Listeners

Listener Duration Response 
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\ChannelListener {#723
  -map: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\AccessMap {#722 …}
  -logger: Monolog\Logger {#783 …}
  -httpPort: 80
  -httpsPort: 443
}
 0.00 ms (none) 
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\ContextListener {#706
  -tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\TokenStorage {#1017 …}
  -sessionKey: "_security_main"
  -logger: Monolog\Logger {#783 …}
  -userProviders: Symfony\Component\DependencyInjection\Argument\RewindableGenerator {#705 …}
  -dispatcher: Symfony\Component\EventDispatcher\Debug\TraceableEventDispatcher {#747 …}
  -registered: false
  -trustResolver: Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authentication\AuthenticationTrustResolver {#780 …}
  -sessionTrackerEnabler: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage::enableUsageTracking(): void {#703 …}
}
 3.12 ms (none) 
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\AuthenticatorManagerListener {#584
  -authenticatorManager: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Authentication\AuthenticatorManager {#595 …}
}
 0.00 ms (none) 
Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Http\Firewall\TwoFactorAccessListener {#582
  -twoFactorFirewallConfig: Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\TwoFactor\TwoFactorFirewallConfig {#842 …}
  -tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage {#1018 …}
  -twoFactorAccessDecider: Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\TwoFactorAccessDecider {#581 …}
}
 0.08 ms (none) 
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\AccessListener {#579
  -tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage {#1018 …}
  -accessDecisionManager: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\TraceableAccessDecisionManager {#937 …}
  -map: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\AccessMap {#722 …}
}
 0.00 ms (none) 
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\LogoutListener {#786
  -tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage {#1018 …}
  -options: [
    "csrf_parameter" => "_csrf_token"
    "csrf_token_id" => "logout"
    "logout_path" => "app_logout"
  ]
  -httpUtils: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\HttpUtils {#841 …}
  -csrfTokenManager: Symfony\Component\Security\Csrf\CsrfTokenManager {#1015 …}
  -eventDispatcher: Symfony\Component\EventDispatcher\Debug\TraceableEventDispatcher {#747 …}
}
 0.00 ms (none)

Authenticators

No authenticators have been recorded. Check previous profiles on your authentication endpoint.

Access Decision

affirmative Strategy
# Voter class
1 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\AuthenticatedVoter"
2 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
3 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
4 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\ExpressionVoter"
5 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
6 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
7 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
8 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
9 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
10 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
11 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
12 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
13 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
14 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"

Access decision log

# Result Attributes Object
1 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
2 DENIED moderate 
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2371 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
  +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2022 …}
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2085 …}
  +slug: "Vegan-food-The-west-vs-India"
  +title: "Vegan food: The west vs India"
  +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/5a20a8b5-c665-42a6-8155-df3afad7f5fa.jpeg"
  +body: null
  +type: "image"
  +lang: "en"
  +isOc: false
  +hasEmbed: true
  +commentCount: 429
  +favouriteCount: 1952
  +score: 0
  +isAdult: false
  +sticky: false
  +lastActive: DateTime @1699624247 {#2452
    date: 2023-11-10 14:50:47.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +adaAmount: 0
  +tags: null
  +mentions: null
  +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2082 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2097 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2084 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2345 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2131 …}
  +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2164 …}
  +children: [
    4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1709
      +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1654 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
      +body: """
        I get it but this is an emotional appeal. I’m just trying to explain the logic of what was being said here\n
        \n
        I like the fake meat stuff too, and often try to make it myself even though I’ve never had meat on purpose in my life and actually throw up if I do accidentally. I just like the kitchen chemistry aspect of it I guess\n
        \n
        I’m not saying we should stop making vegan alternatives to meat. I’m saying people should stop desiring meat or meat alternatives. Because logically that desire of meat is the cause of both meat and meat alternatives. Like how the cure to nicotine addiction isn’t nicotine patches alone
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 2
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1697148567 {#1435
        date: 2023-10-13 00:09:27.0 +02:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
        "@qjkxbmwvz@lemmy.sdf.org"
        "@muddi@hexbear.net"
        "@Saeculum@hexbear.net"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1671 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1667 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1670 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1678 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1551 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1586 …}
      -id: 44126
      -bodyTs: "'accident':57 'actual':51 'addict':113 'alon':118 'altern':78,91,106 'appeal':9 'aspect':64 'caus':100 'chemistri':63 'cure':110 'desir':87,95 'emot':8 'even':38 'explain':15 'fake':27 'get':2 'guess':68 'isn':114 'kitchen':62 'life':49 'like':25,60,107 'logic':17,93 'm':11,70,82 'make':35,76 'meat':28,44,80,88,90,97,103,105 'never':42 'nicotin':112,116 'often':32 'patch':117 'peopl':84 'purpos':46 'said':22 'say':72,83 'stop':75,86 'stuff':29 'though':39 'throw':52 'tri':13,33 've':41 'vegan':77"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://hexbear.net/comment/4091950"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697148567 {#1438
        date: 2023-10-13 00:09:27.0 +02:00
      }
      +"title": 44126
    }
    3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1548
      +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1550 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
      +body: "Okay but we aren’t there yet and the vegans who I know who have broken their mental attachment to this meat “culture” have not even been tempted to go back once compared to those others"
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 4
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1697148701 {#1579
        date: 2023-10-13 00:11:41.0 +02:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
        "@qjkxbmwvz@lemmy.sdf.org"
        "@seitanic@lemmy.sdf.org"
        "@muddi@hexbear.net"
        "@Saeculum@hexbear.net"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1561 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1564 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1563 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1565 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1558 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1557 …}
      -id: 44132
      -bodyTs: "'aren':4 'attach':19 'back':31 'broken':16 'compar':33 'cultur':23 'even':26 'go':30 'know':13 'meat':22 'mental':18 'okay':1 'other':36 'tempt':28 'vegan':10 'yet':7"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://hexbear.net/comment/4091961"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697148701 {#1559
        date: 2023-10-13 00:11:41.0 +02:00
      }
      +"title": 44132
    }
    2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1604
      +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
      +body: """
        Yeah, if they were Indian. The culture around meat is different than in the West eg. some people only eat meat on a certain day or weekend. Even then, the approach is that meat is disgusting and needs to be cooked and spiced thoroughly before consuming anyhow. And there is already a long and popular tradition of simple alternatives to meat dishes like using potatoes or paneer (or “soy paneer” aka tofu to make it vegan)\n
        \n
        Again, my point is that it is not about the individual but the social ingraining and pressure around meat as a category in itself for individuals
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 2
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1697149273 {#1621
        date: 2023-10-13 00:21:13.0 +02:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
        "@qjkxbmwvz@lemmy.sdf.org"
        "@seitanic@lemmy.sdf.org"
        "@muddi@hexbear.net"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1619 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1701 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1687 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1689 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1691 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1795 …}
      -id: 44147
      -bodyTs: "'aka':71 'alreadi':51 'altern':59 'anyhow':47 'approach':31 'around':8,94 'categori':98 'certain':24 'consum':46 'cook':41 'cultur':7 'day':25 'differ':11 'disgust':36 'dish':62 'eat':20 'eg':16 'even':28 'indian':5 'individu':87,102 'ingrain':91 'like':63 'long':53 'make':74 'meat':9,21,34,61,95 'need':38 'paneer':67,70 'peopl':18 'point':79 'popular':55 'potato':65 'pressur':93 'simpl':58 'social':90 'soy':69 'spice':43 'thorough':44 'tofu':72 'tradit':56 'use':64 'vegan':76 'weekend':27 'west':15 'yeah':1"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://hexbear.net/comment/4092025"
      +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697149411 {#1620
        date: 2023-10-13 00:23:31.0 +02:00
      }
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697149273 {#1613
        date: 2023-10-13 00:21:13.0 +02:00
      }
      +"title": 44147
    }
    1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1611
      +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1598 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1598 …}
      +body: "Hence this meme"
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 7
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1697150846 {#1711
        date: 2023-10-13 00:47:26.0 +02:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
        "@Taleya@aussie.zone"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1630 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1628 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1599 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1625 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1617 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1725 …}
      -id: 44189
      -bodyTs: "'henc':1 'meme':3"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://hexbear.net/comment/4092192"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697150846 {#1616
        date: 2023-10-13 00:47:26.0 +02:00
      }
      +"title": 44189
    }
    0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1726
      +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1728 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
      +body: """
        > No, their metaphor was not ignorant at all.\n
        \n
        I was half-joking, but yes it was ignorant? Lesbians don’t choose their sexuality, but people do choose to be vegan. There is an ignorance of sexuality and diet there. Also, people do try going vegan, eat some fake meat and cheese, and eventually go back to eating meat because they still crave meat in itself. This does happen. This is also related to those people who sneak in or revert to eating meat because of some cultural or family tradition, or peer pressure from friends. One vegan I knew who was going on for 25 years ate a steak to impress his business friends instead of speaking up to say he didn’t want to eat at a meat-only restaurant. Take a look at my other comments here, I am speaking about this topic at the social level, not how individuals like the taste of meat or fake meat.\n
        \n
        > there is nothing wrong with it at all\n
        \n
        Yeah I know, I have been saying that. This is not a moral argument. This is a rational one, and one perhaps from a medical or public health perspective: the cultural desire to obtain “meat” as a thing in itself is the cause for the demand of meat or meat alternatives. It’s great that under capitalism that solutions can be provided via the market and supply-and-demand, whatever, but it doesn’t address the reason why there is a demand in the first place.\n
        \n
        How I know it’s a cultivated desire: it doesn’t exist across cultures. Hell it doesn’t exist within the western fake meat market itself: how much fake seafood do you see engineered out there? Or exotic meats ie objects perfectly engineered to mimic dog, cat, or even human meat? I’m sure human taste buds can enjoy long pork, real or fake. Yet basically no one is asking for this right?
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 4
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1697152558 {#1722
        date: 2023-10-13 01:15:58.0 +02:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
        "@qjkxbmwvz@lemmy.sdf.org"
        "@Vegasimov@reddthat.com"
        "@muddi@hexbear.net"
        "@TheCaconym@hexbear.net"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1736 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1737 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1732 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1735 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1729 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1719 …}
      -id: 44242
      -bodyTs: "'25':106 'across':270 'address':246 'also':41,72 'altern':221 'argument':184 'ask':327 'ate':108 'back':56 'basic':323 'bud':314 'busi':114 'capit':227 'cat':304 'caus':213 'chees':52 'choos':22,28 'comment':140 'crave':63 'cultiv':264 'cultur':88,201,271 'demand':216,240,253 'desir':202,265 'didn':123 'diet':39 'doesn':244,267,274 'dog':303 'eat':47,58,83,127 'engin':291,300 'enjoy':316 'even':306 'eventu':54 'exist':269,276 'exot':295 'fake':49,161,280,286,321 'famili':90 'first':256 'friend':96,115 'go':45,55,103 'great':224 'half':12 'half-jok':11 'happen':69 'health':198 'hell':272 'human':307,312 'ie':297 'ignor':6,18,35 'impress':112 'individu':154 'instead':116 'joke':13 'knew':100 'know':173,260 'lesbian':19 'level':151 'like':155 'long':317 'look':136 'm':310 'market':235,282 'meat':50,59,64,84,131,159,162,205,218,220,281,296,308 'meat-on':130 'medic':195 'metaphor':3 'mimic':302 'moral':183 'much':285 'noth':165 'object':298 'obtain':204 'one':97,189,191,325 'peer':93 'peopl':26,42,76 'perfect':299 'perhap':192 'perspect':199 'place':257 'pork':318 'pressur':94 'provid':232 'public':197 'ration':188 'real':319 'reason':248 'relat':73 'restaur':133 'revert':81 'right':330 'say':121,177 'seafood':287 'see':290 'sexual':24,37 'sneak':78 'social':150 'solut':229 'speak':118,144 'steak':110 'still':62 'suppli':238 'supply-and-demand':237 'sure':311 'take':134 'tast':157,313 'thing':208 'topic':147 'tradit':91 'tri':44 'vegan':31,46,98 'via':233 'want':125 'western':279 'whatev':241 'within':277 'wrong':166 'yeah':171 'year':107 'yes':15 'yet':322"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://hexbear.net/comment/4092349"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697152558 {#1721
        date: 2023-10-13 01:15:58.0 +02:00
      }
      +"title": 44242
    }
  ]
  -id: 4724
  -titleTs: "'food':2 'india':6 'vegan':1 'vs':5 'west':4"
  -bodyTs: null
  +cross: false
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +ranking: 1697226439
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://lemmy.ml/post/6399513"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697140039 {#1696
    date: 2023-10-12 21:47:19.0 +02:00
  }
  +__isInitialized__: true
   …2
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
3 DENIED edit 
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2371 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
  +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2022 …}
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2085 …}
  +slug: "Vegan-food-The-west-vs-India"
  +title: "Vegan food: The west vs India"
  +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/5a20a8b5-c665-42a6-8155-df3afad7f5fa.jpeg"
  +body: null
  +type: "image"
  +lang: "en"
  +isOc: false
  +hasEmbed: true
  +commentCount: 429
  +favouriteCount: 1952
  +score: 0
  +isAdult: false
  +sticky: false
  +lastActive: DateTime @1699624247 {#2452
    date: 2023-11-10 14:50:47.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +adaAmount: 0
  +tags: null
  +mentions: null
  +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2082 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2097 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2084 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2345 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2131 …}
  +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2164 …}
  +children: [
    4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1709
      +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1654 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
      +body: """
        I get it but this is an emotional appeal. I’m just trying to explain the logic of what was being said here\n
        \n
        I like the fake meat stuff too, and often try to make it myself even though I’ve never had meat on purpose in my life and actually throw up if I do accidentally. I just like the kitchen chemistry aspect of it I guess\n
        \n
        I’m not saying we should stop making vegan alternatives to meat. I’m saying people should stop desiring meat or meat alternatives. Because logically that desire of meat is the cause of both meat and meat alternatives. Like how the cure to nicotine addiction isn’t nicotine patches alone
        """
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        date: 2023-10-13 00:09:27.0 +02:00
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        "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
        "@qjkxbmwvz@lemmy.sdf.org"
        "@muddi@hexbear.net"
        "@Saeculum@hexbear.net"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1671 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1667 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1670 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1678 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1551 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1586 …}
      -id: 44126
      -bodyTs: "'accident':57 'actual':51 'addict':113 'alon':118 'altern':78,91,106 'appeal':9 'aspect':64 'caus':100 'chemistri':63 'cure':110 'desir':87,95 'emot':8 'even':38 'explain':15 'fake':27 'get':2 'guess':68 'isn':114 'kitchen':62 'life':49 'like':25,60,107 'logic':17,93 'm':11,70,82 'make':35,76 'meat':28,44,80,88,90,97,103,105 'never':42 'nicotin':112,116 'often':32 'patch':117 'peopl':84 'purpos':46 'said':22 'say':72,83 'stop':75,86 'stuff':29 'though':39 'throw':52 'tri':13,33 've':41 'vegan':77"
      +ranking: 0
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      +downVotes: 0
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      +apId: "https://hexbear.net/comment/4091950"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697148567 {#1438
        date: 2023-10-13 00:09:27.0 +02:00
      }
      +"title": 44126
    }
    3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1548
      +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1550 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
      +body: "Okay but we aren’t there yet and the vegans who I know who have broken their mental attachment to this meat “culture” have not even been tempted to go back once compared to those others"
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 4
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        date: 2023-10-13 00:11:41.0 +02:00
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        "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
        "@qjkxbmwvz@lemmy.sdf.org"
        "@seitanic@lemmy.sdf.org"
        "@muddi@hexbear.net"
        "@Saeculum@hexbear.net"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1561 …}
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      -id: 44132
      -bodyTs: "'aren':4 'attach':19 'back':31 'broken':16 'compar':33 'cultur':23 'even':26 'go':30 'know':13 'meat':22 'mental':18 'okay':1 'other':36 'tempt':28 'vegan':10 'yet':7"
      +ranking: 0
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      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://hexbear.net/comment/4091961"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697148701 {#1559
        date: 2023-10-13 00:11:41.0 +02:00
      }
      +"title": 44132
    }
    2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1604
      +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
      +body: """
        Yeah, if they were Indian. The culture around meat is different than in the West eg. some people only eat meat on a certain day or weekend. Even then, the approach is that meat is disgusting and needs to be cooked and spiced thoroughly before consuming anyhow. And there is already a long and popular tradition of simple alternatives to meat dishes like using potatoes or paneer (or “soy paneer” aka tofu to make it vegan)\n
        \n
        Again, my point is that it is not about the individual but the social ingraining and pressure around meat as a category in itself for individuals
        """
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      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 2
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1697149273 {#1621
        date: 2023-10-13 00:21:13.0 +02:00
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        "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
        "@qjkxbmwvz@lemmy.sdf.org"
        "@seitanic@lemmy.sdf.org"
        "@muddi@hexbear.net"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1619 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1701 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1687 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1689 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1691 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1795 …}
      -id: 44147
      -bodyTs: "'aka':71 'alreadi':51 'altern':59 'anyhow':47 'approach':31 'around':8,94 'categori':98 'certain':24 'consum':46 'cook':41 'cultur':7 'day':25 'differ':11 'disgust':36 'dish':62 'eat':20 'eg':16 'even':28 'indian':5 'individu':87,102 'ingrain':91 'like':63 'long':53 'make':74 'meat':9,21,34,61,95 'need':38 'paneer':67,70 'peopl':18 'point':79 'popular':55 'potato':65 'pressur':93 'simpl':58 'social':90 'soy':69 'spice':43 'thorough':44 'tofu':72 'tradit':56 'use':64 'vegan':76 'weekend':27 'west':15 'yeah':1"
      +ranking: 0
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        date: 2023-10-13 00:23:31.0 +02:00
      }
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697149273 {#1613
        date: 2023-10-13 00:21:13.0 +02:00
      }
      +"title": 44147
    }
    1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1611
      +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1598 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1598 …}
      +body: "Hence this meme"
      +lang: "en"
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        date: 2023-10-13 00:47:26.0 +02:00
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        "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
        "@Taleya@aussie.zone"
      ]
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      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1599 …}
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      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1725 …}
      -id: 44189
      -bodyTs: "'henc':1 'meme':3"
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      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697150846 {#1616
        date: 2023-10-13 00:47:26.0 +02:00
      }
      +"title": 44189
    }
    0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1726
      +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1728 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
      +body: """
        > No, their metaphor was not ignorant at all.\n
        \n
        I was half-joking, but yes it was ignorant? Lesbians don’t choose their sexuality, but people do choose to be vegan. There is an ignorance of sexuality and diet there. Also, people do try going vegan, eat some fake meat and cheese, and eventually go back to eating meat because they still crave meat in itself. This does happen. This is also related to those people who sneak in or revert to eating meat because of some cultural or family tradition, or peer pressure from friends. One vegan I knew who was going on for 25 years ate a steak to impress his business friends instead of speaking up to say he didn’t want to eat at a meat-only restaurant. Take a look at my other comments here, I am speaking about this topic at the social level, not how individuals like the taste of meat or fake meat.\n
        \n
        > there is nothing wrong with it at all\n
        \n
        Yeah I know, I have been saying that. This is not a moral argument. This is a rational one, and one perhaps from a medical or public health perspective: the cultural desire to obtain “meat” as a thing in itself is the cause for the demand of meat or meat alternatives. It’s great that under capitalism that solutions can be provided via the market and supply-and-demand, whatever, but it doesn’t address the reason why there is a demand in the first place.\n
        \n
        How I know it’s a cultivated desire: it doesn’t exist across cultures. Hell it doesn’t exist within the western fake meat market itself: how much fake seafood do you see engineered out there? Or exotic meats ie objects perfectly engineered to mimic dog, cat, or even human meat? I’m sure human taste buds can enjoy long pork, real or fake. Yet basically no one is asking for this right?
        """
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        "@qjkxbmwvz@lemmy.sdf.org"
        "@Vegasimov@reddthat.com"
        "@muddi@hexbear.net"
        "@TheCaconym@hexbear.net"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1736 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1737 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1732 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1735 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1729 …}
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      +ranking: 0
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      +"title": 44242
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  ]
  -id: 4724
  -titleTs: "'food':2 'india':6 'vegan':1 'vs':5 'west':4"
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    date: 2023-10-12 21:47:19.0 +02:00
  }
  +__isInitialized__: true
   …2
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
4 DENIED moderate 
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2371 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
  +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2022 …}
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2085 …}
  +slug: "Vegan-food-The-west-vs-India"
  +title: "Vegan food: The west vs India"
  +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/5a20a8b5-c665-42a6-8155-df3afad7f5fa.jpeg"
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    date: 2023-11-10 14:50:47.0 +01:00
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  +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2082 …}
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  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2345 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2131 …}
  +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2164 …}
  +children: [
    4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1709
      +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1654 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
      +body: """
        I get it but this is an emotional appeal. I’m just trying to explain the logic of what was being said here\n
        \n
        I like the fake meat stuff too, and often try to make it myself even though I’ve never had meat on purpose in my life and actually throw up if I do accidentally. I just like the kitchen chemistry aspect of it I guess\n
        \n
        I’m not saying we should stop making vegan alternatives to meat. I’m saying people should stop desiring meat or meat alternatives. Because logically that desire of meat is the cause of both meat and meat alternatives. Like how the cure to nicotine addiction isn’t nicotine patches alone
        """
      +lang: "en"
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        "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
        "@qjkxbmwvz@lemmy.sdf.org"
        "@muddi@hexbear.net"
        "@Saeculum@hexbear.net"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1671 …}
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      -id: 44126
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      +ranking: 0
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      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697148567 {#1438
        date: 2023-10-13 00:09:27.0 +02:00
      }
      +"title": 44126
    }
    3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1548
      +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1550 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
      +body: "Okay but we aren’t there yet and the vegans who I know who have broken their mental attachment to this meat “culture” have not even been tempted to go back once compared to those others"
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 4
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        date: 2023-10-13 00:11:41.0 +02:00
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        "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
        "@qjkxbmwvz@lemmy.sdf.org"
        "@seitanic@lemmy.sdf.org"
        "@muddi@hexbear.net"
        "@Saeculum@hexbear.net"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1561 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1564 …}
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      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1557 …}
      -id: 44132
      -bodyTs: "'aren':4 'attach':19 'back':31 'broken':16 'compar':33 'cultur':23 'even':26 'go':30 'know':13 'meat':22 'mental':18 'okay':1 'other':36 'tempt':28 'vegan':10 'yet':7"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://hexbear.net/comment/4091961"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697148701 {#1559
        date: 2023-10-13 00:11:41.0 +02:00
      }
      +"title": 44132
    }
    2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1604
      +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
      +body: """
        Yeah, if they were Indian. The culture around meat is different than in the West eg. some people only eat meat on a certain day or weekend. Even then, the approach is that meat is disgusting and needs to be cooked and spiced thoroughly before consuming anyhow. And there is already a long and popular tradition of simple alternatives to meat dishes like using potatoes or paneer (or “soy paneer” aka tofu to make it vegan)\n
        \n
        Again, my point is that it is not about the individual but the social ingraining and pressure around meat as a category in itself for individuals
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 2
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1697149273 {#1621
        date: 2023-10-13 00:21:13.0 +02:00
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        "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
        "@qjkxbmwvz@lemmy.sdf.org"
        "@seitanic@lemmy.sdf.org"
        "@muddi@hexbear.net"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1619 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1701 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1687 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1689 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1691 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1795 …}
      -id: 44147
      -bodyTs: "'aka':71 'alreadi':51 'altern':59 'anyhow':47 'approach':31 'around':8,94 'categori':98 'certain':24 'consum':46 'cook':41 'cultur':7 'day':25 'differ':11 'disgust':36 'dish':62 'eat':20 'eg':16 'even':28 'indian':5 'individu':87,102 'ingrain':91 'like':63 'long':53 'make':74 'meat':9,21,34,61,95 'need':38 'paneer':67,70 'peopl':18 'point':79 'popular':55 'potato':65 'pressur':93 'simpl':58 'social':90 'soy':69 'spice':43 'thorough':44 'tofu':72 'tradit':56 'use':64 'vegan':76 'weekend':27 'west':15 'yeah':1"
      +ranking: 0
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      +apId: "https://hexbear.net/comment/4092025"
      +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697149411 {#1620
        date: 2023-10-13 00:23:31.0 +02:00
      }
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697149273 {#1613
        date: 2023-10-13 00:21:13.0 +02:00
      }
      +"title": 44147
    }
    1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1611
      +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1598 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1598 …}
      +body: "Hence this meme"
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
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        date: 2023-10-13 00:47:26.0 +02:00
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        "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
        "@Taleya@aussie.zone"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1630 …}
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      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1599 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1625 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1617 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1725 …}
      -id: 44189
      -bodyTs: "'henc':1 'meme':3"
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      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697150846 {#1616
        date: 2023-10-13 00:47:26.0 +02:00
      }
      +"title": 44189
    }
    0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1726
      +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1728 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
      +body: """
        > No, their metaphor was not ignorant at all.\n
        \n
        I was half-joking, but yes it was ignorant? Lesbians don’t choose their sexuality, but people do choose to be vegan. There is an ignorance of sexuality and diet there. Also, people do try going vegan, eat some fake meat and cheese, and eventually go back to eating meat because they still crave meat in itself. This does happen. This is also related to those people who sneak in or revert to eating meat because of some cultural or family tradition, or peer pressure from friends. One vegan I knew who was going on for 25 years ate a steak to impress his business friends instead of speaking up to say he didn’t want to eat at a meat-only restaurant. Take a look at my other comments here, I am speaking about this topic at the social level, not how individuals like the taste of meat or fake meat.\n
        \n
        > there is nothing wrong with it at all\n
        \n
        Yeah I know, I have been saying that. This is not a moral argument. This is a rational one, and one perhaps from a medical or public health perspective: the cultural desire to obtain “meat” as a thing in itself is the cause for the demand of meat or meat alternatives. It’s great that under capitalism that solutions can be provided via the market and supply-and-demand, whatever, but it doesn’t address the reason why there is a demand in the first place.\n
        \n
        How I know it’s a cultivated desire: it doesn’t exist across cultures. Hell it doesn’t exist within the western fake meat market itself: how much fake seafood do you see engineered out there? Or exotic meats ie objects perfectly engineered to mimic dog, cat, or even human meat? I’m sure human taste buds can enjoy long pork, real or fake. Yet basically no one is asking for this right?
        """
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        "@Vegasimov@reddthat.com"
        "@muddi@hexbear.net"
        "@TheCaconym@hexbear.net"
      ]
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      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1732 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1735 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1729 …}
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      -bodyTs: "'25':106 'across':270 'address':246 'also':41,72 'altern':221 'argument':184 'ask':327 'ate':108 'back':56 'basic':323 'bud':314 'busi':114 'capit':227 'cat':304 'caus':213 'chees':52 'choos':22,28 'comment':140 'crave':63 'cultiv':264 'cultur':88,201,271 'demand':216,240,253 'desir':202,265 'didn':123 'diet':39 'doesn':244,267,274 'dog':303 'eat':47,58,83,127 'engin':291,300 'enjoy':316 'even':306 'eventu':54 'exist':269,276 'exot':295 'fake':49,161,280,286,321 'famili':90 'first':256 'friend':96,115 'go':45,55,103 'great':224 'half':12 'half-jok':11 'happen':69 'health':198 'hell':272 'human':307,312 'ie':297 'ignor':6,18,35 'impress':112 'individu':154 'instead':116 'joke':13 'knew':100 'know':173,260 'lesbian':19 'level':151 'like':155 'long':317 'look':136 'm':310 'market':235,282 'meat':50,59,64,84,131,159,162,205,218,220,281,296,308 'meat-on':130 'medic':195 'metaphor':3 'mimic':302 'moral':183 'much':285 'noth':165 'object':298 'obtain':204 'one':97,189,191,325 'peer':93 'peopl':26,42,76 'perfect':299 'perhap':192 'perspect':199 'place':257 'pork':318 'pressur':94 'provid':232 'public':197 'ration':188 'real':319 'reason':248 'relat':73 'restaur':133 'revert':81 'right':330 'say':121,177 'seafood':287 'see':290 'sexual':24,37 'sneak':78 'social':150 'solut':229 'speak':118,144 'steak':110 'still':62 'suppli':238 'supply-and-demand':237 'sure':311 'take':134 'tast':157,313 'thing':208 'topic':147 'tradit':91 'tri':44 'vegan':31,46,98 'via':233 'want':125 'western':279 'whatev':241 'within':277 'wrong':166 'yeah':171 'year':107 'yes':15 'yet':322"
      +ranking: 0
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        date: 2023-10-13 01:15:58.0 +02:00
      }
      +"title": 44242
    }
  ]
  -id: 4724
  -titleTs: "'food':2 'india':6 'vegan':1 'vs':5 'west':4"
  -bodyTs: null
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    date: 2023-10-12 21:47:19.0 +02:00
  }
  +__isInitialized__: true
   …2
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
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"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
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Show voter details
5 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
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6 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1709
  +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2371 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2022 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2085 …}
    +slug: "Vegan-food-The-west-vs-India"
    +title: "Vegan food: The west vs India"
    +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/5a20a8b5-c665-42a6-8155-df3afad7f5fa.jpeg"
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      date: 2023-11-10 14:50:47.0 +01:00
    }
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    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2082 …}
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    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2164 …}
    +children: [
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1709}
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1548
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1550 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
        +body: "Okay but we aren’t there yet and the vegans who I know who have broken their mental attachment to this meat “culture” have not even been tempted to go back once compared to those others"
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2023-10-13 00:11:41.0 +02:00
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          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
          "@qjkxbmwvz@lemmy.sdf.org"
          "@seitanic@lemmy.sdf.org"
          "@muddi@hexbear.net"
          "@Saeculum@hexbear.net"
        ]
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        -id: 44132
        -bodyTs: "'aren':4 'attach':19 'back':31 'broken':16 'compar':33 'cultur':23 'even':26 'go':30 'know':13 'meat':22 'mental':18 'okay':1 'other':36 'tempt':28 'vegan':10 'yet':7"
        +ranking: 0
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        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697148701 {#1559
          date: 2023-10-13 00:11:41.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 44132
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1604
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        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
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        +body: """
          Yeah, if they were Indian. The culture around meat is different than in the West eg. some people only eat meat on a certain day or weekend. Even then, the approach is that meat is disgusting and needs to be cooked and spiced thoroughly before consuming anyhow. And there is already a long and popular tradition of simple alternatives to meat dishes like using potatoes or paneer (or “soy paneer” aka tofu to make it vegan)\n
          \n
          Again, my point is that it is not about the individual but the social ingraining and pressure around meat as a category in itself for individuals
          """
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          "@qjkxbmwvz@lemmy.sdf.org"
          "@seitanic@lemmy.sdf.org"
          "@muddi@hexbear.net"
        ]
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        -id: 44147
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        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-10-13 00:23:31.0 +02:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697149273 {#1613
          date: 2023-10-13 00:21:13.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 44147
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1611
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1598 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1598 …}
        +body: "Hence this meme"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 7
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1697150846 {#1711
          date: 2023-10-13 00:47:26.0 +02:00
        }
        +ip: null
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        +mentions: [
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
          "@Taleya@aussie.zone"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1630 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1628 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1599 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1625 …}
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        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1725 …}
        -id: 44189
        -bodyTs: "'henc':1 'meme':3"
        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
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        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697150846 {#1616
          date: 2023-10-13 00:47:26.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 44189
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1726
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1728 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
        +body: """
          > No, their metaphor was not ignorant at all.\n
          \n
          I was half-joking, but yes it was ignorant? Lesbians don’t choose their sexuality, but people do choose to be vegan. There is an ignorance of sexuality and diet there. Also, people do try going vegan, eat some fake meat and cheese, and eventually go back to eating meat because they still crave meat in itself. This does happen. This is also related to those people who sneak in or revert to eating meat because of some cultural or family tradition, or peer pressure from friends. One vegan I knew who was going on for 25 years ate a steak to impress his business friends instead of speaking up to say he didn’t want to eat at a meat-only restaurant. Take a look at my other comments here, I am speaking about this topic at the social level, not how individuals like the taste of meat or fake meat.\n
          \n
          > there is nothing wrong with it at all\n
          \n
          Yeah I know, I have been saying that. This is not a moral argument. This is a rational one, and one perhaps from a medical or public health perspective: the cultural desire to obtain “meat” as a thing in itself is the cause for the demand of meat or meat alternatives. It’s great that under capitalism that solutions can be provided via the market and supply-and-demand, whatever, but it doesn’t address the reason why there is a demand in the first place.\n
          \n
          How I know it’s a cultivated desire: it doesn’t exist across cultures. Hell it doesn’t exist within the western fake meat market itself: how much fake seafood do you see engineered out there? Or exotic meats ie objects perfectly engineered to mimic dog, cat, or even human meat? I’m sure human taste buds can enjoy long pork, real or fake. Yet basically no one is asking for this right?
          """
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        +favouriteCount: 4
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          date: 2023-10-13 01:15:58.0 +02:00
        }
        +ip: null
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        +mentions: [
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
          "@qjkxbmwvz@lemmy.sdf.org"
          "@Vegasimov@reddthat.com"
          "@muddi@hexbear.net"
          "@TheCaconym@hexbear.net"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1736 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1737 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1732 …}
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        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1729 …}
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        -id: 44242
        -bodyTs: "'25':106 'across':270 'address':246 'also':41,72 'altern':221 'argument':184 'ask':327 'ate':108 'back':56 'basic':323 'bud':314 'busi':114 'capit':227 'cat':304 'caus':213 'chees':52 'choos':22,28 'comment':140 'crave':63 'cultiv':264 'cultur':88,201,271 'demand':216,240,253 'desir':202,265 'didn':123 'diet':39 'doesn':244,267,274 'dog':303 'eat':47,58,83,127 'engin':291,300 'enjoy':316 'even':306 'eventu':54 'exist':269,276 'exot':295 'fake':49,161,280,286,321 'famili':90 'first':256 'friend':96,115 'go':45,55,103 'great':224 'half':12 'half-jok':11 'happen':69 'health':198 'hell':272 'human':307,312 'ie':297 'ignor':6,18,35 'impress':112 'individu':154 'instead':116 'joke':13 'knew':100 'know':173,260 'lesbian':19 'level':151 'like':155 'long':317 'look':136 'm':310 'market':235,282 'meat':50,59,64,84,131,159,162,205,218,220,281,296,308 'meat-on':130 'medic':195 'metaphor':3 'mimic':302 'moral':183 'much':285 'noth':165 'object':298 'obtain':204 'one':97,189,191,325 'peer':93 'peopl':26,42,76 'perfect':299 'perhap':192 'perspect':199 'place':257 'pork':318 'pressur':94 'provid':232 'public':197 'ration':188 'real':319 'reason':248 'relat':73 'restaur':133 'revert':81 'right':330 'say':121,177 'seafood':287 'see':290 'sexual':24,37 'sneak':78 'social':150 'solut':229 'speak':118,144 'steak':110 'still':62 'suppli':238 'supply-and-demand':237 'sure':311 'take':134 'tast':157,313 'thing':208 'topic':147 'tradit':91 'tri':44 'vegan':31,46,98 'via':233 'want':125 'western':279 'whatev':241 'within':277 'wrong':166 'yeah':171 'year':107 'yes':15 'yet':322"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-10-13 01:15:58.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 44242
      }
    ]
    -id: 4724
    -titleTs: "'food':2 'india':6 'vegan':1 'vs':5 'west':4"
    -bodyTs: null
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    +upVotes: 0
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    +ranking: 1697226439
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemmy.ml/post/6399513"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697140039 {#1696
      date: 2023-10-12 21:47:19.0 +02:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1654 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
  +body: """
    I get it but this is an emotional appeal. I’m just trying to explain the logic of what was being said here\n
    \n
    I like the fake meat stuff too, and often try to make it myself even though I’ve never had meat on purpose in my life and actually throw up if I do accidentally. I just like the kitchen chemistry aspect of it I guess\n
    \n
    I’m not saying we should stop making vegan alternatives to meat. I’m saying people should stop desiring meat or meat alternatives. Because logically that desire of meat is the cause of both meat and meat alternatives. Like how the cure to nicotine addiction isn’t nicotine patches alone
    """
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    date: 2023-10-13 00:09:27.0 +02:00
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    "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
    "@qjkxbmwvz@lemmy.sdf.org"
    "@muddi@hexbear.net"
    "@Saeculum@hexbear.net"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1671 …}
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}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
7 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1709
  +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2371 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2022 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2085 …}
    +slug: "Vegan-food-The-west-vs-India"
    +title: "Vegan food: The west vs India"
    +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/5a20a8b5-c665-42a6-8155-df3afad7f5fa.jpeg"
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    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2164 …}
    +children: [
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1709}
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1548
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        +body: "Okay but we aren’t there yet and the vegans who I know who have broken their mental attachment to this meat “culture” have not even been tempted to go back once compared to those others"
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          "@seitanic@lemmy.sdf.org"
          "@muddi@hexbear.net"
          "@Saeculum@hexbear.net"
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        -id: 44132
        -bodyTs: "'aren':4 'attach':19 'back':31 'broken':16 'compar':33 'cultur':23 'even':26 'go':30 'know':13 'meat':22 'mental':18 'okay':1 'other':36 'tempt':28 'vegan':10 'yet':7"
        +ranking: 0
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697148701 {#1559
          date: 2023-10-13 00:11:41.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 44132
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1604
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        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
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        +body: """
          Yeah, if they were Indian. The culture around meat is different than in the West eg. some people only eat meat on a certain day or weekend. Even then, the approach is that meat is disgusting and needs to be cooked and spiced thoroughly before consuming anyhow. And there is already a long and popular tradition of simple alternatives to meat dishes like using potatoes or paneer (or “soy paneer” aka tofu to make it vegan)\n
          \n
          Again, my point is that it is not about the individual but the social ingraining and pressure around meat as a category in itself for individuals
          """
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          "@qjkxbmwvz@lemmy.sdf.org"
          "@seitanic@lemmy.sdf.org"
          "@muddi@hexbear.net"
        ]
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        -id: 44147
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        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-10-13 00:23:31.0 +02:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697149273 {#1613
          date: 2023-10-13 00:21:13.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 44147
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1611
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1598 …}
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        +body: "Hence this meme"
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          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
          "@Taleya@aussie.zone"
        ]
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        -id: 44189
        -bodyTs: "'henc':1 'meme':3"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697150846 {#1616
          date: 2023-10-13 00:47:26.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 44189
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1726
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1728 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
        +body: """
          > No, their metaphor was not ignorant at all.\n
          \n
          I was half-joking, but yes it was ignorant? Lesbians don’t choose their sexuality, but people do choose to be vegan. There is an ignorance of sexuality and diet there. Also, people do try going vegan, eat some fake meat and cheese, and eventually go back to eating meat because they still crave meat in itself. This does happen. This is also related to those people who sneak in or revert to eating meat because of some cultural or family tradition, or peer pressure from friends. One vegan I knew who was going on for 25 years ate a steak to impress his business friends instead of speaking up to say he didn’t want to eat at a meat-only restaurant. Take a look at my other comments here, I am speaking about this topic at the social level, not how individuals like the taste of meat or fake meat.\n
          \n
          > there is nothing wrong with it at all\n
          \n
          Yeah I know, I have been saying that. This is not a moral argument. This is a rational one, and one perhaps from a medical or public health perspective: the cultural desire to obtain “meat” as a thing in itself is the cause for the demand of meat or meat alternatives. It’s great that under capitalism that solutions can be provided via the market and supply-and-demand, whatever, but it doesn’t address the reason why there is a demand in the first place.\n
          \n
          How I know it’s a cultivated desire: it doesn’t exist across cultures. Hell it doesn’t exist within the western fake meat market itself: how much fake seafood do you see engineered out there? Or exotic meats ie objects perfectly engineered to mimic dog, cat, or even human meat? I’m sure human taste buds can enjoy long pork, real or fake. Yet basically no one is asking for this right?
          """
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          date: 2023-10-13 01:15:58.0 +02:00
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          "@qjkxbmwvz@lemmy.sdf.org"
          "@Vegasimov@reddthat.com"
          "@muddi@hexbear.net"
          "@TheCaconym@hexbear.net"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1736 …}
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        +ranking: 0
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697152558 {#1721
          date: 2023-10-13 01:15:58.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 44242
      }
    ]
    -id: 4724
    -titleTs: "'food':2 'india':6 'vegan':1 'vs':5 'west':4"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1697226439
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemmy.ml/post/6399513"
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697140039 {#1696
      date: 2023-10-12 21:47:19.0 +02:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
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  +body: """
    I get it but this is an emotional appeal. I’m just trying to explain the logic of what was being said here\n
    \n
    I like the fake meat stuff too, and often try to make it myself even though I’ve never had meat on purpose in my life and actually throw up if I do accidentally. I just like the kitchen chemistry aspect of it I guess\n
    \n
    I’m not saying we should stop making vegan alternatives to meat. I’m saying people should stop desiring meat or meat alternatives. Because logically that desire of meat is the cause of both meat and meat alternatives. Like how the cure to nicotine addiction isn’t nicotine patches alone
    """
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    "@muddi@hexbear.net"
    "@Saeculum@hexbear.net"
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}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
8 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1709
  +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582
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    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2022 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2085 …}
    +slug: "Vegan-food-The-west-vs-India"
    +title: "Vegan food: The west vs India"
    +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/5a20a8b5-c665-42a6-8155-df3afad7f5fa.jpeg"
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      date: 2023-11-10 14:50:47.0 +01:00
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      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1709}
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1548
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        +body: "Okay but we aren’t there yet and the vegans who I know who have broken their mental attachment to this meat “culture” have not even been tempted to go back once compared to those others"
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          "@muddi@hexbear.net"
          "@Saeculum@hexbear.net"
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        -bodyTs: "'aren':4 'attach':19 'back':31 'broken':16 'compar':33 'cultur':23 'even':26 'go':30 'know':13 'meat':22 'mental':18 'okay':1 'other':36 'tempt':28 'vegan':10 'yet':7"
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          date: 2023-10-13 00:11:41.0 +02:00
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1604
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        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
        +body: """
          Yeah, if they were Indian. The culture around meat is different than in the West eg. some people only eat meat on a certain day or weekend. Even then, the approach is that meat is disgusting and needs to be cooked and spiced thoroughly before consuming anyhow. And there is already a long and popular tradition of simple alternatives to meat dishes like using potatoes or paneer (or “soy paneer” aka tofu to make it vegan)\n
          \n
          Again, my point is that it is not about the individual but the social ingraining and pressure around meat as a category in itself for individuals
          """
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          "@muddi@hexbear.net"
        ]
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        -id: 44147
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          date: 2023-10-13 00:23:31.0 +02:00
        }
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          date: 2023-10-13 00:21:13.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 44147
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1611
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1598 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1598 …}
        +body: "Hence this meme"
        +lang: "en"
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          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
          "@Taleya@aussie.zone"
        ]
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        -id: 44189
        -bodyTs: "'henc':1 'meme':3"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697150846 {#1616
          date: 2023-10-13 00:47:26.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 44189
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1726
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1728 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
        +body: """
          > No, their metaphor was not ignorant at all.\n
          \n
          I was half-joking, but yes it was ignorant? Lesbians don’t choose their sexuality, but people do choose to be vegan. There is an ignorance of sexuality and diet there. Also, people do try going vegan, eat some fake meat and cheese, and eventually go back to eating meat because they still crave meat in itself. This does happen. This is also related to those people who sneak in or revert to eating meat because of some cultural or family tradition, or peer pressure from friends. One vegan I knew who was going on for 25 years ate a steak to impress his business friends instead of speaking up to say he didn’t want to eat at a meat-only restaurant. Take a look at my other comments here, I am speaking about this topic at the social level, not how individuals like the taste of meat or fake meat.\n
          \n
          > there is nothing wrong with it at all\n
          \n
          Yeah I know, I have been saying that. This is not a moral argument. This is a rational one, and one perhaps from a medical or public health perspective: the cultural desire to obtain “meat” as a thing in itself is the cause for the demand of meat or meat alternatives. It’s great that under capitalism that solutions can be provided via the market and supply-and-demand, whatever, but it doesn’t address the reason why there is a demand in the first place.\n
          \n
          How I know it’s a cultivated desire: it doesn’t exist across cultures. Hell it doesn’t exist within the western fake meat market itself: how much fake seafood do you see engineered out there? Or exotic meats ie objects perfectly engineered to mimic dog, cat, or even human meat? I’m sure human taste buds can enjoy long pork, real or fake. Yet basically no one is asking for this right?
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 4
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          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
          "@qjkxbmwvz@lemmy.sdf.org"
          "@Vegasimov@reddthat.com"
          "@muddi@hexbear.net"
          "@TheCaconym@hexbear.net"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1736 …}
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        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1732 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1735 …}
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        +"title": 44242
      }
    ]
    -id: 4724
    -titleTs: "'food':2 'india':6 'vegan':1 'vs':5 'west':4"
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      date: 2023-10-12 21:47:19.0 +02:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
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  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1654 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
  +body: """
    I get it but this is an emotional appeal. I’m just trying to explain the logic of what was being said here\n
    \n
    I like the fake meat stuff too, and often try to make it myself even though I’ve never had meat on purpose in my life and actually throw up if I do accidentally. I just like the kitchen chemistry aspect of it I guess\n
    \n
    I’m not saying we should stop making vegan alternatives to meat. I’m saying people should stop desiring meat or meat alternatives. Because logically that desire of meat is the cause of both meat and meat alternatives. Like how the cure to nicotine addiction isn’t nicotine patches alone
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
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    date: 2023-10-13 00:09:27.0 +02:00
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    "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
    "@qjkxbmwvz@lemmy.sdf.org"
    "@muddi@hexbear.net"
    "@Saeculum@hexbear.net"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1671 …}
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  -id: 44126
  -bodyTs: "'accident':57 'actual':51 'addict':113 'alon':118 'altern':78,91,106 'appeal':9 'aspect':64 'caus':100 'chemistri':63 'cure':110 'desir':87,95 'emot':8 'even':38 'explain':15 'fake':27 'get':2 'guess':68 'isn':114 'kitchen':62 'life':49 'like':25,60,107 'logic':17,93 'm':11,70,82 'make':35,76 'meat':28,44,80,88,90,97,103,105 'never':42 'nicotin':112,116 'often':32 'patch':117 'peopl':84 'purpos':46 'said':22 'say':72,83 'stop':75,86 'stuff':29 'though':39 'throw':52 'tri':13,33 've':41 'vegan':77"
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    date: 2023-10-13 00:09:27.0 +02:00
  }
  +"title": 44126
}
 
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Show voter details
9 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
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Show voter details
10 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1548
  +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
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    +slug: "Vegan-food-The-west-vs-India"
    +title: "Vegan food: The west vs India"
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    +children: [
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1709
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1654 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
        +body: """
          I get it but this is an emotional appeal. I’m just trying to explain the logic of what was being said here\n
          \n
          I like the fake meat stuff too, and often try to make it myself even though I’ve never had meat on purpose in my life and actually throw up if I do accidentally. I just like the kitchen chemistry aspect of it I guess\n
          \n
          I’m not saying we should stop making vegan alternatives to meat. I’m saying people should stop desiring meat or meat alternatives. Because logically that desire of meat is the cause of both meat and meat alternatives. Like how the cure to nicotine addiction isn’t nicotine patches alone
          """
        +lang: "en"
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          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
          "@qjkxbmwvz@lemmy.sdf.org"
          "@muddi@hexbear.net"
          "@Saeculum@hexbear.net"
        ]
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        -id: 44126
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        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://hexbear.net/comment/4091950"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697148567 {#1438
          date: 2023-10-13 00:09:27.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 44126
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1548}
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1604
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
        +body: """
          Yeah, if they were Indian. The culture around meat is different than in the West eg. some people only eat meat on a certain day or weekend. Even then, the approach is that meat is disgusting and needs to be cooked and spiced thoroughly before consuming anyhow. And there is already a long and popular tradition of simple alternatives to meat dishes like using potatoes or paneer (or “soy paneer” aka tofu to make it vegan)\n
          \n
          Again, my point is that it is not about the individual but the social ingraining and pressure around meat as a category in itself for individuals
          """
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          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
          "@qjkxbmwvz@lemmy.sdf.org"
          "@seitanic@lemmy.sdf.org"
          "@muddi@hexbear.net"
        ]
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        -id: 44147
        -bodyTs: "'aka':71 'alreadi':51 'altern':59 'anyhow':47 'approach':31 'around':8,94 'categori':98 'certain':24 'consum':46 'cook':41 'cultur':7 'day':25 'differ':11 'disgust':36 'dish':62 'eat':20 'eg':16 'even':28 'indian':5 'individu':87,102 'ingrain':91 'like':63 'long':53 'make':74 'meat':9,21,34,61,95 'need':38 'paneer':67,70 'peopl':18 'point':79 'popular':55 'potato':65 'pressur':93 'simpl':58 'social':90 'soy':69 'spice':43 'thorough':44 'tofu':72 'tradit':56 'use':64 'vegan':76 'weekend':27 'west':15 'yeah':1"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://hexbear.net/comment/4092025"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697149411 {#1620
          date: 2023-10-13 00:23:31.0 +02:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697149273 {#1613
          date: 2023-10-13 00:21:13.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 44147
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1611
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        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1598 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1598 …}
        +body: "Hence this meme"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 7
        +score: 0
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          date: 2023-10-13 00:47:26.0 +02:00
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          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
          "@Taleya@aussie.zone"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1630 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1628 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1599 …}
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        -id: 44189
        -bodyTs: "'henc':1 'meme':3"
        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
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        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697150846 {#1616
          date: 2023-10-13 00:47:26.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 44189
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1726
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1728 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
        +body: """
          > No, their metaphor was not ignorant at all.\n
          \n
          I was half-joking, but yes it was ignorant? Lesbians don’t choose their sexuality, but people do choose to be vegan. There is an ignorance of sexuality and diet there. Also, people do try going vegan, eat some fake meat and cheese, and eventually go back to eating meat because they still crave meat in itself. This does happen. This is also related to those people who sneak in or revert to eating meat because of some cultural or family tradition, or peer pressure from friends. One vegan I knew who was going on for 25 years ate a steak to impress his business friends instead of speaking up to say he didn’t want to eat at a meat-only restaurant. Take a look at my other comments here, I am speaking about this topic at the social level, not how individuals like the taste of meat or fake meat.\n
          \n
          > there is nothing wrong with it at all\n
          \n
          Yeah I know, I have been saying that. This is not a moral argument. This is a rational one, and one perhaps from a medical or public health perspective: the cultural desire to obtain “meat” as a thing in itself is the cause for the demand of meat or meat alternatives. It’s great that under capitalism that solutions can be provided via the market and supply-and-demand, whatever, but it doesn’t address the reason why there is a demand in the first place.\n
          \n
          How I know it’s a cultivated desire: it doesn’t exist across cultures. Hell it doesn’t exist within the western fake meat market itself: how much fake seafood do you see engineered out there? Or exotic meats ie objects perfectly engineered to mimic dog, cat, or even human meat? I’m sure human taste buds can enjoy long pork, real or fake. Yet basically no one is asking for this right?
          """
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          date: 2023-10-13 01:15:58.0 +02:00
        }
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          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
          "@qjkxbmwvz@lemmy.sdf.org"
          "@Vegasimov@reddthat.com"
          "@muddi@hexbear.net"
          "@TheCaconym@hexbear.net"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1736 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1737 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1732 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1735 …}
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        +ranking: 0
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        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697152558 {#1721
          date: 2023-10-13 01:15:58.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 44242
      }
    ]
    -id: 4724
    -titleTs: "'food':2 'india':6 'vegan':1 'vs':5 'west':4"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1697226439
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemmy.ml/post/6399513"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697140039 {#1696
      date: 2023-10-12 21:47:19.0 +02:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1550 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
  +body: "Okay but we aren’t there yet and the vegans who I know who have broken their mental attachment to this meat “culture” have not even been tempted to go back once compared to those others"
  +lang: "en"
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    "@qjkxbmwvz@lemmy.sdf.org"
    "@seitanic@lemmy.sdf.org"
    "@muddi@hexbear.net"
    "@Saeculum@hexbear.net"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1561 …}
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  +ranking: 0
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  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697148701 {#1559
    date: 2023-10-13 00:11:41.0 +02:00
  }
  +"title": 44132
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
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"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
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"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
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"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
11 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1548
  +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2371 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2022 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2085 …}
    +slug: "Vegan-food-The-west-vs-India"
    +title: "Vegan food: The west vs India"
    +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/5a20a8b5-c665-42a6-8155-df3afad7f5fa.jpeg"
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      date: 2023-11-10 14:50:47.0 +01:00
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    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2082 …}
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    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2131 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2164 …}
    +children: [
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1709
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1654 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
        +body: """
          I get it but this is an emotional appeal. I’m just trying to explain the logic of what was being said here\n
          \n
          I like the fake meat stuff too, and often try to make it myself even though I’ve never had meat on purpose in my life and actually throw up if I do accidentally. I just like the kitchen chemistry aspect of it I guess\n
          \n
          I’m not saying we should stop making vegan alternatives to meat. I’m saying people should stop desiring meat or meat alternatives. Because logically that desire of meat is the cause of both meat and meat alternatives. Like how the cure to nicotine addiction isn’t nicotine patches alone
          """
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          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
          "@qjkxbmwvz@lemmy.sdf.org"
          "@muddi@hexbear.net"
          "@Saeculum@hexbear.net"
        ]
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        +ranking: 0
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        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697148567 {#1438
          date: 2023-10-13 00:09:27.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 44126
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1548}
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1604
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
        +body: """
          Yeah, if they were Indian. The culture around meat is different than in the West eg. some people only eat meat on a certain day or weekend. Even then, the approach is that meat is disgusting and needs to be cooked and spiced thoroughly before consuming anyhow. And there is already a long and popular tradition of simple alternatives to meat dishes like using potatoes or paneer (or “soy paneer” aka tofu to make it vegan)\n
          \n
          Again, my point is that it is not about the individual but the social ingraining and pressure around meat as a category in itself for individuals
          """
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          "@qjkxbmwvz@lemmy.sdf.org"
          "@seitanic@lemmy.sdf.org"
          "@muddi@hexbear.net"
        ]
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          date: 2023-10-13 00:23:31.0 +02:00
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          date: 2023-10-13 00:21:13.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 44147
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1611
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1598 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1598 …}
        +body: "Hence this meme"
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2023-10-13 00:47:26.0 +02:00
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          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
          "@Taleya@aussie.zone"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1630 …}
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        -id: 44189
        -bodyTs: "'henc':1 'meme':3"
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        +apId: "https://hexbear.net/comment/4092192"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697150846 {#1616
          date: 2023-10-13 00:47:26.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 44189
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1726
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1728 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
        +body: """
          > No, their metaphor was not ignorant at all.\n
          \n
          I was half-joking, but yes it was ignorant? Lesbians don’t choose their sexuality, but people do choose to be vegan. There is an ignorance of sexuality and diet there. Also, people do try going vegan, eat some fake meat and cheese, and eventually go back to eating meat because they still crave meat in itself. This does happen. This is also related to those people who sneak in or revert to eating meat because of some cultural or family tradition, or peer pressure from friends. One vegan I knew who was going on for 25 years ate a steak to impress his business friends instead of speaking up to say he didn’t want to eat at a meat-only restaurant. Take a look at my other comments here, I am speaking about this topic at the social level, not how individuals like the taste of meat or fake meat.\n
          \n
          > there is nothing wrong with it at all\n
          \n
          Yeah I know, I have been saying that. This is not a moral argument. This is a rational one, and one perhaps from a medical or public health perspective: the cultural desire to obtain “meat” as a thing in itself is the cause for the demand of meat or meat alternatives. It’s great that under capitalism that solutions can be provided via the market and supply-and-demand, whatever, but it doesn’t address the reason why there is a demand in the first place.\n
          \n
          How I know it’s a cultivated desire: it doesn’t exist across cultures. Hell it doesn’t exist within the western fake meat market itself: how much fake seafood do you see engineered out there? Or exotic meats ie objects perfectly engineered to mimic dog, cat, or even human meat? I’m sure human taste buds can enjoy long pork, real or fake. Yet basically no one is asking for this right?
          """
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          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
          "@qjkxbmwvz@lemmy.sdf.org"
          "@Vegasimov@reddthat.com"
          "@muddi@hexbear.net"
          "@TheCaconym@hexbear.net"
        ]
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        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://hexbear.net/comment/4092349"
        +editedAt: null
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        +"title": 44242
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    -id: 4724
    -titleTs: "'food':2 'india':6 'vegan':1 'vs':5 'west':4"
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    +upVotes: 0
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    +ranking: 1697226439
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemmy.ml/post/6399513"
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697140039 {#1696
      date: 2023-10-12 21:47:19.0 +02:00
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     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1550 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
  +body: "Okay but we aren’t there yet and the vegans who I know who have broken their mental attachment to this meat “culture” have not even been tempted to go back once compared to those others"
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
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    "@qjkxbmwvz@lemmy.sdf.org"
    "@seitanic@lemmy.sdf.org"
    "@muddi@hexbear.net"
    "@Saeculum@hexbear.net"
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    date: 2023-10-13 00:11:41.0 +02:00
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"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
12 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1548
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    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2022 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2085 …}
    +slug: "Vegan-food-The-west-vs-India"
    +title: "Vegan food: The west vs India"
    +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/5a20a8b5-c665-42a6-8155-df3afad7f5fa.jpeg"
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    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2345 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2131 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2164 …}
    +children: [
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1709
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1654 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
        +body: """
          I get it but this is an emotional appeal. I’m just trying to explain the logic of what was being said here\n
          \n
          I like the fake meat stuff too, and often try to make it myself even though I’ve never had meat on purpose in my life and actually throw up if I do accidentally. I just like the kitchen chemistry aspect of it I guess\n
          \n
          I’m not saying we should stop making vegan alternatives to meat. I’m saying people should stop desiring meat or meat alternatives. Because logically that desire of meat is the cause of both meat and meat alternatives. Like how the cure to nicotine addiction isn’t nicotine patches alone
          """
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          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
          "@qjkxbmwvz@lemmy.sdf.org"
          "@muddi@hexbear.net"
          "@Saeculum@hexbear.net"
        ]
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        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://hexbear.net/comment/4091950"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697148567 {#1438
          date: 2023-10-13 00:09:27.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 44126
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1548}
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1604
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        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
        +body: """
          Yeah, if they were Indian. The culture around meat is different than in the West eg. some people only eat meat on a certain day or weekend. Even then, the approach is that meat is disgusting and needs to be cooked and spiced thoroughly before consuming anyhow. And there is already a long and popular tradition of simple alternatives to meat dishes like using potatoes or paneer (or “soy paneer” aka tofu to make it vegan)\n
          \n
          Again, my point is that it is not about the individual but the social ingraining and pressure around meat as a category in itself for individuals
          """
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          "@qjkxbmwvz@lemmy.sdf.org"
          "@seitanic@lemmy.sdf.org"
          "@muddi@hexbear.net"
        ]
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          date: 2023-10-13 00:23:31.0 +02:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697149273 {#1613
          date: 2023-10-13 00:21:13.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 44147
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1611
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1598 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1598 …}
        +body: "Hence this meme"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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        +score: 0
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          date: 2023-10-13 00:47:26.0 +02:00
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          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
          "@Taleya@aussie.zone"
        ]
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        -id: 44189
        -bodyTs: "'henc':1 'meme':3"
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        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697150846 {#1616
          date: 2023-10-13 00:47:26.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 44189
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1726
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1728 …}
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        +body: """
          > No, their metaphor was not ignorant at all.\n
          \n
          I was half-joking, but yes it was ignorant? Lesbians don’t choose their sexuality, but people do choose to be vegan. There is an ignorance of sexuality and diet there. Also, people do try going vegan, eat some fake meat and cheese, and eventually go back to eating meat because they still crave meat in itself. This does happen. This is also related to those people who sneak in or revert to eating meat because of some cultural or family tradition, or peer pressure from friends. One vegan I knew who was going on for 25 years ate a steak to impress his business friends instead of speaking up to say he didn’t want to eat at a meat-only restaurant. Take a look at my other comments here, I am speaking about this topic at the social level, not how individuals like the taste of meat or fake meat.\n
          \n
          > there is nothing wrong with it at all\n
          \n
          Yeah I know, I have been saying that. This is not a moral argument. This is a rational one, and one perhaps from a medical or public health perspective: the cultural desire to obtain “meat” as a thing in itself is the cause for the demand of meat or meat alternatives. It’s great that under capitalism that solutions can be provided via the market and supply-and-demand, whatever, but it doesn’t address the reason why there is a demand in the first place.\n
          \n
          How I know it’s a cultivated desire: it doesn’t exist across cultures. Hell it doesn’t exist within the western fake meat market itself: how much fake seafood do you see engineered out there? Or exotic meats ie objects perfectly engineered to mimic dog, cat, or even human meat? I’m sure human taste buds can enjoy long pork, real or fake. Yet basically no one is asking for this right?
          """
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          "@qjkxbmwvz@lemmy.sdf.org"
          "@Vegasimov@reddthat.com"
          "@muddi@hexbear.net"
          "@TheCaconym@hexbear.net"
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    ]
    -id: 4724
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      date: 2023-10-12 21:47:19.0 +02:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
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  +body: "Okay but we aren’t there yet and the vegans who I know who have broken their mental attachment to this meat “culture” have not even been tempted to go back once compared to those others"
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    "@seitanic@lemmy.sdf.org"
    "@muddi@hexbear.net"
    "@Saeculum@hexbear.net"
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#1604
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    +slug: "Vegan-food-The-west-vs-India"
    +title: "Vegan food: The west vs India"
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          I get it but this is an emotional appeal. I’m just trying to explain the logic of what was being said here\n
          \n
          I like the fake meat stuff too, and often try to make it myself even though I’ve never had meat on purpose in my life and actually throw up if I do accidentally. I just like the kitchen chemistry aspect of it I guess\n
          \n
          I’m not saying we should stop making vegan alternatives to meat. I’m saying people should stop desiring meat or meat alternatives. Because logically that desire of meat is the cause of both meat and meat alternatives. Like how the cure to nicotine addiction isn’t nicotine patches alone
          """
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          "@Saeculum@hexbear.net"
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          date: 2023-10-13 00:09:27.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 44126
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1548
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1550 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
        +body: "Okay but we aren’t there yet and the vegans who I know who have broken their mental attachment to this meat “culture” have not even been tempted to go back once compared to those others"
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          "@muddi@hexbear.net"
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        -id: 44132
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          date: 2023-10-13 00:11:41.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 44132
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1604}
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1611
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          "@Taleya@aussie.zone"
        ]
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        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1628 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1599 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1625 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1617 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1725 …}
        -id: 44189
        -bodyTs: "'henc':1 'meme':3"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://hexbear.net/comment/4092192"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697150846 {#1616
          date: 2023-10-13 00:47:26.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 44189
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1726
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1728 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
        +body: """
          > No, their metaphor was not ignorant at all.\n
          \n
          I was half-joking, but yes it was ignorant? Lesbians don’t choose their sexuality, but people do choose to be vegan. There is an ignorance of sexuality and diet there. Also, people do try going vegan, eat some fake meat and cheese, and eventually go back to eating meat because they still crave meat in itself. This does happen. This is also related to those people who sneak in or revert to eating meat because of some cultural or family tradition, or peer pressure from friends. One vegan I knew who was going on for 25 years ate a steak to impress his business friends instead of speaking up to say he didn’t want to eat at a meat-only restaurant. Take a look at my other comments here, I am speaking about this topic at the social level, not how individuals like the taste of meat or fake meat.\n
          \n
          > there is nothing wrong with it at all\n
          \n
          Yeah I know, I have been saying that. This is not a moral argument. This is a rational one, and one perhaps from a medical or public health perspective: the cultural desire to obtain “meat” as a thing in itself is the cause for the demand of meat or meat alternatives. It’s great that under capitalism that solutions can be provided via the market and supply-and-demand, whatever, but it doesn’t address the reason why there is a demand in the first place.\n
          \n
          How I know it’s a cultivated desire: it doesn’t exist across cultures. Hell it doesn’t exist within the western fake meat market itself: how much fake seafood do you see engineered out there? Or exotic meats ie objects perfectly engineered to mimic dog, cat, or even human meat? I’m sure human taste buds can enjoy long pork, real or fake. Yet basically no one is asking for this right?
          """
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          date: 2023-10-13 01:15:58.0 +02:00
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          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
          "@qjkxbmwvz@lemmy.sdf.org"
          "@Vegasimov@reddthat.com"
          "@muddi@hexbear.net"
          "@TheCaconym@hexbear.net"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1736 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1737 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1732 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1735 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1729 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1719 …}
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        -bodyTs: "'25':106 'across':270 'address':246 'also':41,72 'altern':221 'argument':184 'ask':327 'ate':108 'back':56 'basic':323 'bud':314 'busi':114 'capit':227 'cat':304 'caus':213 'chees':52 'choos':22,28 'comment':140 'crave':63 'cultiv':264 'cultur':88,201,271 'demand':216,240,253 'desir':202,265 'didn':123 'diet':39 'doesn':244,267,274 'dog':303 'eat':47,58,83,127 'engin':291,300 'enjoy':316 'even':306 'eventu':54 'exist':269,276 'exot':295 'fake':49,161,280,286,321 'famili':90 'first':256 'friend':96,115 'go':45,55,103 'great':224 'half':12 'half-jok':11 'happen':69 'health':198 'hell':272 'human':307,312 'ie':297 'ignor':6,18,35 'impress':112 'individu':154 'instead':116 'joke':13 'knew':100 'know':173,260 'lesbian':19 'level':151 'like':155 'long':317 'look':136 'm':310 'market':235,282 'meat':50,59,64,84,131,159,162,205,218,220,281,296,308 'meat-on':130 'medic':195 'metaphor':3 'mimic':302 'moral':183 'much':285 'noth':165 'object':298 'obtain':204 'one':97,189,191,325 'peer':93 'peopl':26,42,76 'perfect':299 'perhap':192 'perspect':199 'place':257 'pork':318 'pressur':94 'provid':232 'public':197 'ration':188 'real':319 'reason':248 'relat':73 'restaur':133 'revert':81 'right':330 'say':121,177 'seafood':287 'see':290 'sexual':24,37 'sneak':78 'social':150 'solut':229 'speak':118,144 'steak':110 'still':62 'suppli':238 'supply-and-demand':237 'sure':311 'take':134 'tast':157,313 'thing':208 'topic':147 'tradit':91 'tri':44 'vegan':31,46,98 'via':233 'want':125 'western':279 'whatev':241 'within':277 'wrong':166 'yeah':171 'year':107 'yes':15 'yet':322"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697152558 {#1721
          date: 2023-10-13 01:15:58.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 44242
      }
    ]
    -id: 4724
    -titleTs: "'food':2 'india':6 'vegan':1 'vs':5 'west':4"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1697226439
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemmy.ml/post/6399513"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697140039 {#1696
      date: 2023-10-12 21:47:19.0 +02:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
  +body: """
    Yeah, if they were Indian. The culture around meat is different than in the West eg. some people only eat meat on a certain day or weekend. Even then, the approach is that meat is disgusting and needs to be cooked and spiced thoroughly before consuming anyhow. And there is already a long and popular tradition of simple alternatives to meat dishes like using potatoes or paneer (or “soy paneer” aka tofu to make it vegan)\n
    \n
    Again, my point is that it is not about the individual but the social ingraining and pressure around meat as a category in itself for individuals
    """
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  +isAdult: false
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    date: 2023-10-13 00:21:13.0 +02:00
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    "@qjkxbmwvz@lemmy.sdf.org"
    "@seitanic@lemmy.sdf.org"
    "@muddi@hexbear.net"
  ]
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  -id: 44147
  -bodyTs: "'aka':71 'alreadi':51 'altern':59 'anyhow':47 'approach':31 'around':8,94 'categori':98 'certain':24 'consum':46 'cook':41 'cultur':7 'day':25 'differ':11 'disgust':36 'dish':62 'eat':20 'eg':16 'even':28 'indian':5 'individu':87,102 'ingrain':91 'like':63 'long':53 'make':74 'meat':9,21,34,61,95 'need':38 'paneer':67,70 'peopl':18 'point':79 'popular':55 'potato':65 'pressur':93 'simpl':58 'social':90 'soy':69 'spice':43 'thorough':44 'tofu':72 'tradit':56 'use':64 'vegan':76 'weekend':27 'west':15 'yeah':1"
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    date: 2023-10-13 00:23:31.0 +02:00
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    date: 2023-10-13 00:21:13.0 +02:00
  }
  +"title": 44147
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
15 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1604
  +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2371 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2022 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2085 …}
    +slug: "Vegan-food-The-west-vs-India"
    +title: "Vegan food: The west vs India"
    +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/5a20a8b5-c665-42a6-8155-df3afad7f5fa.jpeg"
    +body: null
    +type: "image"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: true
    +commentCount: 429
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    +score: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +sticky: false
    +lastActive: DateTime @1699624247 {#2452
      date: 2023-11-10 14:50:47.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2082 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2097 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2084 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2345 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2131 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2164 …}
    +children: [
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1709
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1654 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
        +body: """
          I get it but this is an emotional appeal. I’m just trying to explain the logic of what was being said here\n
          \n
          I like the fake meat stuff too, and often try to make it myself even though I’ve never had meat on purpose in my life and actually throw up if I do accidentally. I just like the kitchen chemistry aspect of it I guess\n
          \n
          I’m not saying we should stop making vegan alternatives to meat. I’m saying people should stop desiring meat or meat alternatives. Because logically that desire of meat is the cause of both meat and meat alternatives. Like how the cure to nicotine addiction isn’t nicotine patches alone
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-10-13 00:09:27.0 +02:00
        }
        +ip: null
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        +mentions: [
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
          "@qjkxbmwvz@lemmy.sdf.org"
          "@muddi@hexbear.net"
          "@Saeculum@hexbear.net"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1671 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1667 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1670 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1678 …}
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        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1586 …}
        -id: 44126
        -bodyTs: "'accident':57 'actual':51 'addict':113 'alon':118 'altern':78,91,106 'appeal':9 'aspect':64 'caus':100 'chemistri':63 'cure':110 'desir':87,95 'emot':8 'even':38 'explain':15 'fake':27 'get':2 'guess':68 'isn':114 'kitchen':62 'life':49 'like':25,60,107 'logic':17,93 'm':11,70,82 'make':35,76 'meat':28,44,80,88,90,97,103,105 'never':42 'nicotin':112,116 'often':32 'patch':117 'peopl':84 'purpos':46 'said':22 'say':72,83 'stop':75,86 'stuff':29 'though':39 'throw':52 'tri':13,33 've':41 'vegan':77"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://hexbear.net/comment/4091950"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697148567 {#1438
          date: 2023-10-13 00:09:27.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 44126
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1548
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1550 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
        +body: "Okay but we aren’t there yet and the vegans who I know who have broken their mental attachment to this meat “culture” have not even been tempted to go back once compared to those others"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 4
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          date: 2023-10-13 00:11:41.0 +02:00
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          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
          "@qjkxbmwvz@lemmy.sdf.org"
          "@seitanic@lemmy.sdf.org"
          "@muddi@hexbear.net"
          "@Saeculum@hexbear.net"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1561 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1564 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1563 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1565 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1558 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1557 …}
        -id: 44132
        -bodyTs: "'aren':4 'attach':19 'back':31 'broken':16 'compar':33 'cultur':23 'even':26 'go':30 'know':13 'meat':22 'mental':18 'okay':1 'other':36 'tempt':28 'vegan':10 'yet':7"
        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://hexbear.net/comment/4091961"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697148701 {#1559
          date: 2023-10-13 00:11:41.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 44132
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1604}
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1611
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1598 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1598 …}
        +body: "Hence this meme"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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        +score: 0
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          date: 2023-10-13 00:47:26.0 +02:00
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          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
          "@Taleya@aussie.zone"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1630 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1628 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1599 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1625 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1617 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1725 …}
        -id: 44189
        -bodyTs: "'henc':1 'meme':3"
        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://hexbear.net/comment/4092192"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697150846 {#1616
          date: 2023-10-13 00:47:26.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 44189
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1726
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1728 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
        +body: """
          > No, their metaphor was not ignorant at all.\n
          \n
          I was half-joking, but yes it was ignorant? Lesbians don’t choose their sexuality, but people do choose to be vegan. There is an ignorance of sexuality and diet there. Also, people do try going vegan, eat some fake meat and cheese, and eventually go back to eating meat because they still crave meat in itself. This does happen. This is also related to those people who sneak in or revert to eating meat because of some cultural or family tradition, or peer pressure from friends. One vegan I knew who was going on for 25 years ate a steak to impress his business friends instead of speaking up to say he didn’t want to eat at a meat-only restaurant. Take a look at my other comments here, I am speaking about this topic at the social level, not how individuals like the taste of meat or fake meat.\n
          \n
          > there is nothing wrong with it at all\n
          \n
          Yeah I know, I have been saying that. This is not a moral argument. This is a rational one, and one perhaps from a medical or public health perspective: the cultural desire to obtain “meat” as a thing in itself is the cause for the demand of meat or meat alternatives. It’s great that under capitalism that solutions can be provided via the market and supply-and-demand, whatever, but it doesn’t address the reason why there is a demand in the first place.\n
          \n
          How I know it’s a cultivated desire: it doesn’t exist across cultures. Hell it doesn’t exist within the western fake meat market itself: how much fake seafood do you see engineered out there? Or exotic meats ie objects perfectly engineered to mimic dog, cat, or even human meat? I’m sure human taste buds can enjoy long pork, real or fake. Yet basically no one is asking for this right?
          """
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2023-10-13 01:15:58.0 +02:00
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          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
          "@qjkxbmwvz@lemmy.sdf.org"
          "@Vegasimov@reddthat.com"
          "@muddi@hexbear.net"
          "@TheCaconym@hexbear.net"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1736 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1737 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1732 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1735 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1729 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1719 …}
        -id: 44242
        -bodyTs: "'25':106 'across':270 'address':246 'also':41,72 'altern':221 'argument':184 'ask':327 'ate':108 'back':56 'basic':323 'bud':314 'busi':114 'capit':227 'cat':304 'caus':213 'chees':52 'choos':22,28 'comment':140 'crave':63 'cultiv':264 'cultur':88,201,271 'demand':216,240,253 'desir':202,265 'didn':123 'diet':39 'doesn':244,267,274 'dog':303 'eat':47,58,83,127 'engin':291,300 'enjoy':316 'even':306 'eventu':54 'exist':269,276 'exot':295 'fake':49,161,280,286,321 'famili':90 'first':256 'friend':96,115 'go':45,55,103 'great':224 'half':12 'half-jok':11 'happen':69 'health':198 'hell':272 'human':307,312 'ie':297 'ignor':6,18,35 'impress':112 'individu':154 'instead':116 'joke':13 'knew':100 'know':173,260 'lesbian':19 'level':151 'like':155 'long':317 'look':136 'm':310 'market':235,282 'meat':50,59,64,84,131,159,162,205,218,220,281,296,308 'meat-on':130 'medic':195 'metaphor':3 'mimic':302 'moral':183 'much':285 'noth':165 'object':298 'obtain':204 'one':97,189,191,325 'peer':93 'peopl':26,42,76 'perfect':299 'perhap':192 'perspect':199 'place':257 'pork':318 'pressur':94 'provid':232 'public':197 'ration':188 'real':319 'reason':248 'relat':73 'restaur':133 'revert':81 'right':330 'say':121,177 'seafood':287 'see':290 'sexual':24,37 'sneak':78 'social':150 'solut':229 'speak':118,144 'steak':110 'still':62 'suppli':238 'supply-and-demand':237 'sure':311 'take':134 'tast':157,313 'thing':208 'topic':147 'tradit':91 'tri':44 'vegan':31,46,98 'via':233 'want':125 'western':279 'whatev':241 'within':277 'wrong':166 'yeah':171 'year':107 'yes':15 'yet':322"
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          date: 2023-10-13 01:15:58.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 44242
      }
    ]
    -id: 4724
    -titleTs: "'food':2 'india':6 'vegan':1 'vs':5 'west':4"
    -bodyTs: null
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    +upVotes: 0
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    +ranking: 1697226439
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemmy.ml/post/6399513"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697140039 {#1696
      date: 2023-10-12 21:47:19.0 +02:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
  +body: """
    Yeah, if they were Indian. The culture around meat is different than in the West eg. some people only eat meat on a certain day or weekend. Even then, the approach is that meat is disgusting and needs to be cooked and spiced thoroughly before consuming anyhow. And there is already a long and popular tradition of simple alternatives to meat dishes like using potatoes or paneer (or “soy paneer” aka tofu to make it vegan)\n
    \n
    Again, my point is that it is not about the individual but the social ingraining and pressure around meat as a category in itself for individuals
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 2
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    "@qjkxbmwvz@lemmy.sdf.org"
    "@seitanic@lemmy.sdf.org"
    "@muddi@hexbear.net"
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    date: 2023-10-13 00:21:13.0 +02:00
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  +"title": 44147
}
 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
16 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1604
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    +slug: "Vegan-food-The-west-vs-India"
    +title: "Vegan food: The west vs India"
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          I get it but this is an emotional appeal. I’m just trying to explain the logic of what was being said here\n
          \n
          I like the fake meat stuff too, and often try to make it myself even though I’ve never had meat on purpose in my life and actually throw up if I do accidentally. I just like the kitchen chemistry aspect of it I guess\n
          \n
          I’m not saying we should stop making vegan alternatives to meat. I’m saying people should stop desiring meat or meat alternatives. Because logically that desire of meat is the cause of both meat and meat alternatives. Like how the cure to nicotine addiction isn’t nicotine patches alone
          """
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          "@qjkxbmwvz@lemmy.sdf.org"
          "@muddi@hexbear.net"
          "@Saeculum@hexbear.net"
        ]
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          date: 2023-10-13 00:09:27.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 44126
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1548
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
        +body: "Okay but we aren’t there yet and the vegans who I know who have broken their mental attachment to this meat “culture” have not even been tempted to go back once compared to those others"
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          "@muddi@hexbear.net"
          "@Saeculum@hexbear.net"
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          date: 2023-10-13 00:11:41.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 44132
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1604}
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1611
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
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        +body: "Hence this meme"
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          "@Taleya@aussie.zone"
        ]
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        -id: 44189
        -bodyTs: "'henc':1 'meme':3"
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        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697150846 {#1616
          date: 2023-10-13 00:47:26.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 44189
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1726
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
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        +body: """
          > No, their metaphor was not ignorant at all.\n
          \n
          I was half-joking, but yes it was ignorant? Lesbians don’t choose their sexuality, but people do choose to be vegan. There is an ignorance of sexuality and diet there. Also, people do try going vegan, eat some fake meat and cheese, and eventually go back to eating meat because they still crave meat in itself. This does happen. This is also related to those people who sneak in or revert to eating meat because of some cultural or family tradition, or peer pressure from friends. One vegan I knew who was going on for 25 years ate a steak to impress his business friends instead of speaking up to say he didn’t want to eat at a meat-only restaurant. Take a look at my other comments here, I am speaking about this topic at the social level, not how individuals like the taste of meat or fake meat.\n
          \n
          > there is nothing wrong with it at all\n
          \n
          Yeah I know, I have been saying that. This is not a moral argument. This is a rational one, and one perhaps from a medical or public health perspective: the cultural desire to obtain “meat” as a thing in itself is the cause for the demand of meat or meat alternatives. It’s great that under capitalism that solutions can be provided via the market and supply-and-demand, whatever, but it doesn’t address the reason why there is a demand in the first place.\n
          \n
          How I know it’s a cultivated desire: it doesn’t exist across cultures. Hell it doesn’t exist within the western fake meat market itself: how much fake seafood do you see engineered out there? Or exotic meats ie objects perfectly engineered to mimic dog, cat, or even human meat? I’m sure human taste buds can enjoy long pork, real or fake. Yet basically no one is asking for this right?
          """
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          "@muddi@hexbear.net"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697152558 {#1721
          date: 2023-10-13 01:15:58.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 44242
      }
    ]
    -id: 4724
    -titleTs: "'food':2 'india':6 'vegan':1 'vs':5 'west':4"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1697226439
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemmy.ml/post/6399513"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697140039 {#1696
      date: 2023-10-12 21:47:19.0 +02:00
    }
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     …2
  }
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  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
  +body: """
    Yeah, if they were Indian. The culture around meat is different than in the West eg. some people only eat meat on a certain day or weekend. Even then, the approach is that meat is disgusting and needs to be cooked and spiced thoroughly before consuming anyhow. And there is already a long and popular tradition of simple alternatives to meat dishes like using potatoes or paneer (or “soy paneer” aka tofu to make it vegan)\n
    \n
    Again, my point is that it is not about the individual but the social ingraining and pressure around meat as a category in itself for individuals
    """
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    "@seitanic@lemmy.sdf.org"
    "@muddi@hexbear.net"
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    date: 2023-10-13 00:23:31.0 +02:00
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    date: 2023-10-13 00:21:13.0 +02:00
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  +"title": 44147
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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Show voter details
17 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
18 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1611
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    +title: "Vegan food: The west vs India"
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      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1709
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1654 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
        +body: """
          I get it but this is an emotional appeal. I’m just trying to explain the logic of what was being said here\n
          \n
          I like the fake meat stuff too, and often try to make it myself even though I’ve never had meat on purpose in my life and actually throw up if I do accidentally. I just like the kitchen chemistry aspect of it I guess\n
          \n
          I’m not saying we should stop making vegan alternatives to meat. I’m saying people should stop desiring meat or meat alternatives. Because logically that desire of meat is the cause of both meat and meat alternatives. Like how the cure to nicotine addiction isn’t nicotine patches alone
          """
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          "@qjkxbmwvz@lemmy.sdf.org"
          "@muddi@hexbear.net"
          "@Saeculum@hexbear.net"
        ]
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        -id: 44126
        -bodyTs: "'accident':57 'actual':51 'addict':113 'alon':118 'altern':78,91,106 'appeal':9 'aspect':64 'caus':100 'chemistri':63 'cure':110 'desir':87,95 'emot':8 'even':38 'explain':15 'fake':27 'get':2 'guess':68 'isn':114 'kitchen':62 'life':49 'like':25,60,107 'logic':17,93 'm':11,70,82 'make':35,76 'meat':28,44,80,88,90,97,103,105 'never':42 'nicotin':112,116 'often':32 'patch':117 'peopl':84 'purpos':46 'said':22 'say':72,83 'stop':75,86 'stuff':29 'though':39 'throw':52 'tri':13,33 've':41 'vegan':77"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
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        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://hexbear.net/comment/4091950"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697148567 {#1438
          date: 2023-10-13 00:09:27.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 44126
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1548
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1550 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
        +body: "Okay but we aren’t there yet and the vegans who I know who have broken their mental attachment to this meat “culture” have not even been tempted to go back once compared to those others"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 4
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          date: 2023-10-13 00:11:41.0 +02:00
        }
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          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
          "@qjkxbmwvz@lemmy.sdf.org"
          "@seitanic@lemmy.sdf.org"
          "@muddi@hexbear.net"
          "@Saeculum@hexbear.net"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1561 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1564 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1563 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1565 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1558 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1557 …}
        -id: 44132
        -bodyTs: "'aren':4 'attach':19 'back':31 'broken':16 'compar':33 'cultur':23 'even':26 'go':30 'know':13 'meat':22 'mental':18 'okay':1 'other':36 'tempt':28 'vegan':10 'yet':7"
        +ranking: 0
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        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://hexbear.net/comment/4091961"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697148701 {#1559
          date: 2023-10-13 00:11:41.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 44132
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1604
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
        +body: """
          Yeah, if they were Indian. The culture around meat is different than in the West eg. some people only eat meat on a certain day or weekend. Even then, the approach is that meat is disgusting and needs to be cooked and spiced thoroughly before consuming anyhow. And there is already a long and popular tradition of simple alternatives to meat dishes like using potatoes or paneer (or “soy paneer” aka tofu to make it vegan)\n
          \n
          Again, my point is that it is not about the individual but the social ingraining and pressure around meat as a category in itself for individuals
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
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          date: 2023-10-13 00:21:13.0 +02:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
          "@qjkxbmwvz@lemmy.sdf.org"
          "@seitanic@lemmy.sdf.org"
          "@muddi@hexbear.net"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1619 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1701 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1687 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1689 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1691 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1795 …}
        -id: 44147
        -bodyTs: "'aka':71 'alreadi':51 'altern':59 'anyhow':47 'approach':31 'around':8,94 'categori':98 'certain':24 'consum':46 'cook':41 'cultur':7 'day':25 'differ':11 'disgust':36 'dish':62 'eat':20 'eg':16 'even':28 'indian':5 'individu':87,102 'ingrain':91 'like':63 'long':53 'make':74 'meat':9,21,34,61,95 'need':38 'paneer':67,70 'peopl':18 'point':79 'popular':55 'potato':65 'pressur':93 'simpl':58 'social':90 'soy':69 'spice':43 'thorough':44 'tofu':72 'tradit':56 'use':64 'vegan':76 'weekend':27 'west':15 'yeah':1"
        +ranking: 0
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        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://hexbear.net/comment/4092025"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697149411 {#1620
          date: 2023-10-13 00:23:31.0 +02:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697149273 {#1613
          date: 2023-10-13 00:21:13.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 44147
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1611}
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1726
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1728 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
        +body: """
          > No, their metaphor was not ignorant at all.\n
          \n
          I was half-joking, but yes it was ignorant? Lesbians don’t choose their sexuality, but people do choose to be vegan. There is an ignorance of sexuality and diet there. Also, people do try going vegan, eat some fake meat and cheese, and eventually go back to eating meat because they still crave meat in itself. This does happen. This is also related to those people who sneak in or revert to eating meat because of some cultural or family tradition, or peer pressure from friends. One vegan I knew who was going on for 25 years ate a steak to impress his business friends instead of speaking up to say he didn’t want to eat at a meat-only restaurant. Take a look at my other comments here, I am speaking about this topic at the social level, not how individuals like the taste of meat or fake meat.\n
          \n
          > there is nothing wrong with it at all\n
          \n
          Yeah I know, I have been saying that. This is not a moral argument. This is a rational one, and one perhaps from a medical or public health perspective: the cultural desire to obtain “meat” as a thing in itself is the cause for the demand of meat or meat alternatives. It’s great that under capitalism that solutions can be provided via the market and supply-and-demand, whatever, but it doesn’t address the reason why there is a demand in the first place.\n
          \n
          How I know it’s a cultivated desire: it doesn’t exist across cultures. Hell it doesn’t exist within the western fake meat market itself: how much fake seafood do you see engineered out there? Or exotic meats ie objects perfectly engineered to mimic dog, cat, or even human meat? I’m sure human taste buds can enjoy long pork, real or fake. Yet basically no one is asking for this right?
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 4
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1697152558 {#1722
          date: 2023-10-13 01:15:58.0 +02:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
          "@qjkxbmwvz@lemmy.sdf.org"
          "@Vegasimov@reddthat.com"
          "@muddi@hexbear.net"
          "@TheCaconym@hexbear.net"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1736 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1737 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1732 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1735 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1729 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1719 …}
        -id: 44242
        -bodyTs: "'25':106 'across':270 'address':246 'also':41,72 'altern':221 'argument':184 'ask':327 'ate':108 'back':56 'basic':323 'bud':314 'busi':114 'capit':227 'cat':304 'caus':213 'chees':52 'choos':22,28 'comment':140 'crave':63 'cultiv':264 'cultur':88,201,271 'demand':216,240,253 'desir':202,265 'didn':123 'diet':39 'doesn':244,267,274 'dog':303 'eat':47,58,83,127 'engin':291,300 'enjoy':316 'even':306 'eventu':54 'exist':269,276 'exot':295 'fake':49,161,280,286,321 'famili':90 'first':256 'friend':96,115 'go':45,55,103 'great':224 'half':12 'half-jok':11 'happen':69 'health':198 'hell':272 'human':307,312 'ie':297 'ignor':6,18,35 'impress':112 'individu':154 'instead':116 'joke':13 'knew':100 'know':173,260 'lesbian':19 'level':151 'like':155 'long':317 'look':136 'm':310 'market':235,282 'meat':50,59,64,84,131,159,162,205,218,220,281,296,308 'meat-on':130 'medic':195 'metaphor':3 'mimic':302 'moral':183 'much':285 'noth':165 'object':298 'obtain':204 'one':97,189,191,325 'peer':93 'peopl':26,42,76 'perfect':299 'perhap':192 'perspect':199 'place':257 'pork':318 'pressur':94 'provid':232 'public':197 'ration':188 'real':319 'reason':248 'relat':73 'restaur':133 'revert':81 'right':330 'say':121,177 'seafood':287 'see':290 'sexual':24,37 'sneak':78 'social':150 'solut':229 'speak':118,144 'steak':110 'still':62 'suppli':238 'supply-and-demand':237 'sure':311 'take':134 'tast':157,313 'thing':208 'topic':147 'tradit':91 'tri':44 'vegan':31,46,98 'via':233 'want':125 'western':279 'whatev':241 'within':277 'wrong':166 'yeah':171 'year':107 'yes':15 'yet':322"
        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
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        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697152558 {#1721
          date: 2023-10-13 01:15:58.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 44242
      }
    ]
    -id: 4724
    -titleTs: "'food':2 'india':6 'vegan':1 'vs':5 'west':4"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
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    +ranking: 1697226439
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    +apId: "https://lemmy.ml/post/6399513"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697140039 {#1696
      date: 2023-10-12 21:47:19.0 +02:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1598 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1598 …}
  +body: "Hence this meme"
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 7
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1697150846 {#1711
    date: 2023-10-13 00:47:26.0 +02:00
  }
  +ip: null
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  +mentions: [
    "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
    "@Taleya@aussie.zone"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1630 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1628 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1599 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1625 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1617 …}
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  -id: 44189
  -bodyTs: "'henc':1 'meme':3"
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    date: 2023-10-13 00:47:26.0 +02:00
  }
  +"title": 44189
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
19 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1611
  +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2371 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2022 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2085 …}
    +slug: "Vegan-food-The-west-vs-India"
    +title: "Vegan food: The west vs India"
    +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/5a20a8b5-c665-42a6-8155-df3afad7f5fa.jpeg"
    +body: null
    +type: "image"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: true
    +commentCount: 429
    +favouriteCount: 1952
    +score: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +sticky: false
    +lastActive: DateTime @1699624247 {#2452
      date: 2023-11-10 14:50:47.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2082 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2097 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2084 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2345 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2131 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2164 …}
    +children: [
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1709
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1654 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
        +body: """
          I get it but this is an emotional appeal. I’m just trying to explain the logic of what was being said here\n
          \n
          I like the fake meat stuff too, and often try to make it myself even though I’ve never had meat on purpose in my life and actually throw up if I do accidentally. I just like the kitchen chemistry aspect of it I guess\n
          \n
          I’m not saying we should stop making vegan alternatives to meat. I’m saying people should stop desiring meat or meat alternatives. Because logically that desire of meat is the cause of both meat and meat alternatives. Like how the cure to nicotine addiction isn’t nicotine patches alone
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
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          date: 2023-10-13 00:09:27.0 +02:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
          "@qjkxbmwvz@lemmy.sdf.org"
          "@muddi@hexbear.net"
          "@Saeculum@hexbear.net"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1671 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1667 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1670 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1678 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1551 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1586 …}
        -id: 44126
        -bodyTs: "'accident':57 'actual':51 'addict':113 'alon':118 'altern':78,91,106 'appeal':9 'aspect':64 'caus':100 'chemistri':63 'cure':110 'desir':87,95 'emot':8 'even':38 'explain':15 'fake':27 'get':2 'guess':68 'isn':114 'kitchen':62 'life':49 'like':25,60,107 'logic':17,93 'm':11,70,82 'make':35,76 'meat':28,44,80,88,90,97,103,105 'never':42 'nicotin':112,116 'often':32 'patch':117 'peopl':84 'purpos':46 'said':22 'say':72,83 'stop':75,86 'stuff':29 'though':39 'throw':52 'tri':13,33 've':41 'vegan':77"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://hexbear.net/comment/4091950"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697148567 {#1438
          date: 2023-10-13 00:09:27.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 44126
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1548
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1550 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
        +body: "Okay but we aren’t there yet and the vegans who I know who have broken their mental attachment to this meat “culture” have not even been tempted to go back once compared to those others"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 4
        +score: 0
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          date: 2023-10-13 00:11:41.0 +02:00
        }
        +ip: null
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        +mentions: [
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
          "@qjkxbmwvz@lemmy.sdf.org"
          "@seitanic@lemmy.sdf.org"
          "@muddi@hexbear.net"
          "@Saeculum@hexbear.net"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1561 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1564 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1563 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1565 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1558 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1557 …}
        -id: 44132
        -bodyTs: "'aren':4 'attach':19 'back':31 'broken':16 'compar':33 'cultur':23 'even':26 'go':30 'know':13 'meat':22 'mental':18 'okay':1 'other':36 'tempt':28 'vegan':10 'yet':7"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://hexbear.net/comment/4091961"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697148701 {#1559
          date: 2023-10-13 00:11:41.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 44132
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1604
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
        +body: """
          Yeah, if they were Indian. The culture around meat is different than in the West eg. some people only eat meat on a certain day or weekend. Even then, the approach is that meat is disgusting and needs to be cooked and spiced thoroughly before consuming anyhow. And there is already a long and popular tradition of simple alternatives to meat dishes like using potatoes or paneer (or “soy paneer” aka tofu to make it vegan)\n
          \n
          Again, my point is that it is not about the individual but the social ingraining and pressure around meat as a category in itself for individuals
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
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          date: 2023-10-13 00:21:13.0 +02:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
          "@qjkxbmwvz@lemmy.sdf.org"
          "@seitanic@lemmy.sdf.org"
          "@muddi@hexbear.net"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1619 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1701 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1687 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1689 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1691 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1795 …}
        -id: 44147
        -bodyTs: "'aka':71 'alreadi':51 'altern':59 'anyhow':47 'approach':31 'around':8,94 'categori':98 'certain':24 'consum':46 'cook':41 'cultur':7 'day':25 'differ':11 'disgust':36 'dish':62 'eat':20 'eg':16 'even':28 'indian':5 'individu':87,102 'ingrain':91 'like':63 'long':53 'make':74 'meat':9,21,34,61,95 'need':38 'paneer':67,70 'peopl':18 'point':79 'popular':55 'potato':65 'pressur':93 'simpl':58 'social':90 'soy':69 'spice':43 'thorough':44 'tofu':72 'tradit':56 'use':64 'vegan':76 'weekend':27 'west':15 'yeah':1"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
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        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://hexbear.net/comment/4092025"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697149411 {#1620
          date: 2023-10-13 00:23:31.0 +02:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697149273 {#1613
          date: 2023-10-13 00:21:13.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 44147
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1611}
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1726
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1728 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
        +body: """
          > No, their metaphor was not ignorant at all.\n
          \n
          I was half-joking, but yes it was ignorant? Lesbians don’t choose their sexuality, but people do choose to be vegan. There is an ignorance of sexuality and diet there. Also, people do try going vegan, eat some fake meat and cheese, and eventually go back to eating meat because they still crave meat in itself. This does happen. This is also related to those people who sneak in or revert to eating meat because of some cultural or family tradition, or peer pressure from friends. One vegan I knew who was going on for 25 years ate a steak to impress his business friends instead of speaking up to say he didn’t want to eat at a meat-only restaurant. Take a look at my other comments here, I am speaking about this topic at the social level, not how individuals like the taste of meat or fake meat.\n
          \n
          > there is nothing wrong with it at all\n
          \n
          Yeah I know, I have been saying that. This is not a moral argument. This is a rational one, and one perhaps from a medical or public health perspective: the cultural desire to obtain “meat” as a thing in itself is the cause for the demand of meat or meat alternatives. It’s great that under capitalism that solutions can be provided via the market and supply-and-demand, whatever, but it doesn’t address the reason why there is a demand in the first place.\n
          \n
          How I know it’s a cultivated desire: it doesn’t exist across cultures. Hell it doesn’t exist within the western fake meat market itself: how much fake seafood do you see engineered out there? Or exotic meats ie objects perfectly engineered to mimic dog, cat, or even human meat? I’m sure human taste buds can enjoy long pork, real or fake. Yet basically no one is asking for this right?
          """
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          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
          "@qjkxbmwvz@lemmy.sdf.org"
          "@Vegasimov@reddthat.com"
          "@muddi@hexbear.net"
          "@TheCaconym@hexbear.net"
        ]
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        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1732 …}
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697152558 {#1721
          date: 2023-10-13 01:15:58.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 44242
      }
    ]
    -id: 4724
    -titleTs: "'food':2 'india':6 'vegan':1 'vs':5 'west':4"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
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    +ranking: 1697226439
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    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697140039 {#1696
      date: 2023-10-12 21:47:19.0 +02:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1598 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1598 …}
  +body: "Hence this meme"
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
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  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1697150846 {#1711
    date: 2023-10-13 00:47:26.0 +02:00
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    "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
    "@Taleya@aussie.zone"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1630 …}
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  -id: 44189
  -bodyTs: "'henc':1 'meme':3"
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    date: 2023-10-13 00:47:26.0 +02:00
  }
  +"title": 44189
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
20 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1611
  +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2371 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2022 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2085 …}
    +slug: "Vegan-food-The-west-vs-India"
    +title: "Vegan food: The west vs India"
    +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/5a20a8b5-c665-42a6-8155-df3afad7f5fa.jpeg"
    +body: null
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      date: 2023-11-10 14:50:47.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2082 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2097 …}
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    +children: [
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1709
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1654 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
        +body: """
          I get it but this is an emotional appeal. I’m just trying to explain the logic of what was being said here\n
          \n
          I like the fake meat stuff too, and often try to make it myself even though I’ve never had meat on purpose in my life and actually throw up if I do accidentally. I just like the kitchen chemistry aspect of it I guess\n
          \n
          I’m not saying we should stop making vegan alternatives to meat. I’m saying people should stop desiring meat or meat alternatives. Because logically that desire of meat is the cause of both meat and meat alternatives. Like how the cure to nicotine addiction isn’t nicotine patches alone
          """
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          date: 2023-10-13 00:09:27.0 +02:00
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          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
          "@qjkxbmwvz@lemmy.sdf.org"
          "@muddi@hexbear.net"
          "@Saeculum@hexbear.net"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1671 …}
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        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://hexbear.net/comment/4091950"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697148567 {#1438
          date: 2023-10-13 00:09:27.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 44126
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1548
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1550 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
        +body: "Okay but we aren’t there yet and the vegans who I know who have broken their mental attachment to this meat “culture” have not even been tempted to go back once compared to those others"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 4
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          date: 2023-10-13 00:11:41.0 +02:00
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          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
          "@qjkxbmwvz@lemmy.sdf.org"
          "@seitanic@lemmy.sdf.org"
          "@muddi@hexbear.net"
          "@Saeculum@hexbear.net"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1561 …}
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        -id: 44132
        -bodyTs: "'aren':4 'attach':19 'back':31 'broken':16 'compar':33 'cultur':23 'even':26 'go':30 'know':13 'meat':22 'mental':18 'okay':1 'other':36 'tempt':28 'vegan':10 'yet':7"
        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
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        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697148701 {#1559
          date: 2023-10-13 00:11:41.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 44132
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1604
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
        +body: """
          Yeah, if they were Indian. The culture around meat is different than in the West eg. some people only eat meat on a certain day or weekend. Even then, the approach is that meat is disgusting and needs to be cooked and spiced thoroughly before consuming anyhow. And there is already a long and popular tradition of simple alternatives to meat dishes like using potatoes or paneer (or “soy paneer” aka tofu to make it vegan)\n
          \n
          Again, my point is that it is not about the individual but the social ingraining and pressure around meat as a category in itself for individuals
          """
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          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
          "@qjkxbmwvz@lemmy.sdf.org"
          "@seitanic@lemmy.sdf.org"
          "@muddi@hexbear.net"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1619 …}
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        -id: 44147
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        +apId: "https://hexbear.net/comment/4092025"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697149411 {#1620
          date: 2023-10-13 00:23:31.0 +02:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697149273 {#1613
          date: 2023-10-13 00:21:13.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 44147
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1611}
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1726
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1728 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
        +body: """
          > No, their metaphor was not ignorant at all.\n
          \n
          I was half-joking, but yes it was ignorant? Lesbians don’t choose their sexuality, but people do choose to be vegan. There is an ignorance of sexuality and diet there. Also, people do try going vegan, eat some fake meat and cheese, and eventually go back to eating meat because they still crave meat in itself. This does happen. This is also related to those people who sneak in or revert to eating meat because of some cultural or family tradition, or peer pressure from friends. One vegan I knew who was going on for 25 years ate a steak to impress his business friends instead of speaking up to say he didn’t want to eat at a meat-only restaurant. Take a look at my other comments here, I am speaking about this topic at the social level, not how individuals like the taste of meat or fake meat.\n
          \n
          > there is nothing wrong with it at all\n
          \n
          Yeah I know, I have been saying that. This is not a moral argument. This is a rational one, and one perhaps from a medical or public health perspective: the cultural desire to obtain “meat” as a thing in itself is the cause for the demand of meat or meat alternatives. It’s great that under capitalism that solutions can be provided via the market and supply-and-demand, whatever, but it doesn’t address the reason why there is a demand in the first place.\n
          \n
          How I know it’s a cultivated desire: it doesn’t exist across cultures. Hell it doesn’t exist within the western fake meat market itself: how much fake seafood do you see engineered out there? Or exotic meats ie objects perfectly engineered to mimic dog, cat, or even human meat? I’m sure human taste buds can enjoy long pork, real or fake. Yet basically no one is asking for this right?
          """
        +lang: "en"
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        +lastActive: DateTime @1697152558 {#1722
          date: 2023-10-13 01:15:58.0 +02:00
        }
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          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
          "@qjkxbmwvz@lemmy.sdf.org"
          "@Vegasimov@reddthat.com"
          "@muddi@hexbear.net"
          "@TheCaconym@hexbear.net"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1736 …}
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        +"title": 44242
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    ]
    -id: 4724
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    +ranking: 1697226439
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697140039 {#1696
      date: 2023-10-12 21:47:19.0 +02:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1598 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1598 …}
  +body: "Hence this meme"
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  +isAdult: false
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    date: 2023-10-13 00:47:26.0 +02:00
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    "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
    "@Taleya@aussie.zone"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1630 …}
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  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1599 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1625 …}
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  +editedAt: null
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    date: 2023-10-13 00:47:26.0 +02:00
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  +"title": 44189
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
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Show voter details
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"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
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Show voter details
22 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1726
  +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2371 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2022 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2085 …}
    +slug: "Vegan-food-The-west-vs-India"
    +title: "Vegan food: The west vs India"
    +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/5a20a8b5-c665-42a6-8155-df3afad7f5fa.jpeg"
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      date: 2023-11-10 14:50:47.0 +01:00
    }
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    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2082 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2097 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2084 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2345 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2131 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2164 …}
    +children: [
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1709
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1654 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
        +body: """
          I get it but this is an emotional appeal. I’m just trying to explain the logic of what was being said here\n
          \n
          I like the fake meat stuff too, and often try to make it myself even though I’ve never had meat on purpose in my life and actually throw up if I do accidentally. I just like the kitchen chemistry aspect of it I guess\n
          \n
          I’m not saying we should stop making vegan alternatives to meat. I’m saying people should stop desiring meat or meat alternatives. Because logically that desire of meat is the cause of both meat and meat alternatives. Like how the cure to nicotine addiction isn’t nicotine patches alone
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
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        +mentions: [
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
          "@qjkxbmwvz@lemmy.sdf.org"
          "@muddi@hexbear.net"
          "@Saeculum@hexbear.net"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1671 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1667 …}
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        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1678 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1551 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1586 …}
        -id: 44126
        -bodyTs: "'accident':57 'actual':51 'addict':113 'alon':118 'altern':78,91,106 'appeal':9 'aspect':64 'caus':100 'chemistri':63 'cure':110 'desir':87,95 'emot':8 'even':38 'explain':15 'fake':27 'get':2 'guess':68 'isn':114 'kitchen':62 'life':49 'like':25,60,107 'logic':17,93 'm':11,70,82 'make':35,76 'meat':28,44,80,88,90,97,103,105 'never':42 'nicotin':112,116 'often':32 'patch':117 'peopl':84 'purpos':46 'said':22 'say':72,83 'stop':75,86 'stuff':29 'though':39 'throw':52 'tri':13,33 've':41 'vegan':77"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://hexbear.net/comment/4091950"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697148567 {#1438
          date: 2023-10-13 00:09:27.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 44126
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1548
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1550 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
        +body: "Okay but we aren’t there yet and the vegans who I know who have broken their mental attachment to this meat “culture” have not even been tempted to go back once compared to those others"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 4
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          date: 2023-10-13 00:11:41.0 +02:00
        }
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          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
          "@qjkxbmwvz@lemmy.sdf.org"
          "@seitanic@lemmy.sdf.org"
          "@muddi@hexbear.net"
          "@Saeculum@hexbear.net"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1561 …}
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        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1558 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1557 …}
        -id: 44132
        -bodyTs: "'aren':4 'attach':19 'back':31 'broken':16 'compar':33 'cultur':23 'even':26 'go':30 'know':13 'meat':22 'mental':18 'okay':1 'other':36 'tempt':28 'vegan':10 'yet':7"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://hexbear.net/comment/4091961"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697148701 {#1559
          date: 2023-10-13 00:11:41.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 44132
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1604
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
        +body: """
          Yeah, if they were Indian. The culture around meat is different than in the West eg. some people only eat meat on a certain day or weekend. Even then, the approach is that meat is disgusting and needs to be cooked and spiced thoroughly before consuming anyhow. And there is already a long and popular tradition of simple alternatives to meat dishes like using potatoes or paneer (or “soy paneer” aka tofu to make it vegan)\n
          \n
          Again, my point is that it is not about the individual but the social ingraining and pressure around meat as a category in itself for individuals
          """
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        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1697149273 {#1621
          date: 2023-10-13 00:21:13.0 +02:00
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          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
          "@qjkxbmwvz@lemmy.sdf.org"
          "@seitanic@lemmy.sdf.org"
          "@muddi@hexbear.net"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1619 …}
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        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1687 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1689 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1691 …}
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        -id: 44147
        -bodyTs: "'aka':71 'alreadi':51 'altern':59 'anyhow':47 'approach':31 'around':8,94 'categori':98 'certain':24 'consum':46 'cook':41 'cultur':7 'day':25 'differ':11 'disgust':36 'dish':62 'eat':20 'eg':16 'even':28 'indian':5 'individu':87,102 'ingrain':91 'like':63 'long':53 'make':74 'meat':9,21,34,61,95 'need':38 'paneer':67,70 'peopl':18 'point':79 'popular':55 'potato':65 'pressur':93 'simpl':58 'social':90 'soy':69 'spice':43 'thorough':44 'tofu':72 'tradit':56 'use':64 'vegan':76 'weekend':27 'west':15 'yeah':1"
        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://hexbear.net/comment/4092025"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697149411 {#1620
          date: 2023-10-13 00:23:31.0 +02:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697149273 {#1613
          date: 2023-10-13 00:21:13.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 44147
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1611
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1598 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1598 …}
        +body: "Hence this meme"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 7
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1697150846 {#1711
          date: 2023-10-13 00:47:26.0 +02:00
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          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
          "@Taleya@aussie.zone"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1630 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1628 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1599 …}
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        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1617 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1725 …}
        -id: 44189
        -bodyTs: "'henc':1 'meme':3"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://hexbear.net/comment/4092192"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697150846 {#1616
          date: 2023-10-13 00:47:26.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 44189
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1726}
    ]
    -id: 4724
    -titleTs: "'food':2 'india':6 'vegan':1 'vs':5 'west':4"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1697226439
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemmy.ml/post/6399513"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697140039 {#1696
      date: 2023-10-12 21:47:19.0 +02:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1728 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
  +body: """
    > No, their metaphor was not ignorant at all.\n
    \n
    I was half-joking, but yes it was ignorant? Lesbians don’t choose their sexuality, but people do choose to be vegan. There is an ignorance of sexuality and diet there. Also, people do try going vegan, eat some fake meat and cheese, and eventually go back to eating meat because they still crave meat in itself. This does happen. This is also related to those people who sneak in or revert to eating meat because of some cultural or family tradition, or peer pressure from friends. One vegan I knew who was going on for 25 years ate a steak to impress his business friends instead of speaking up to say he didn’t want to eat at a meat-only restaurant. Take a look at my other comments here, I am speaking about this topic at the social level, not how individuals like the taste of meat or fake meat.\n
    \n
    > there is nothing wrong with it at all\n
    \n
    Yeah I know, I have been saying that. This is not a moral argument. This is a rational one, and one perhaps from a medical or public health perspective: the cultural desire to obtain “meat” as a thing in itself is the cause for the demand of meat or meat alternatives. It’s great that under capitalism that solutions can be provided via the market and supply-and-demand, whatever, but it doesn’t address the reason why there is a demand in the first place.\n
    \n
    How I know it’s a cultivated desire: it doesn’t exist across cultures. Hell it doesn’t exist within the western fake meat market itself: how much fake seafood do you see engineered out there? Or exotic meats ie objects perfectly engineered to mimic dog, cat, or even human meat? I’m sure human taste buds can enjoy long pork, real or fake. Yet basically no one is asking for this right?
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 4
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  +lastActive: DateTime @1697152558 {#1722
    date: 2023-10-13 01:15:58.0 +02:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
    "@qjkxbmwvz@lemmy.sdf.org"
    "@Vegasimov@reddthat.com"
    "@muddi@hexbear.net"
    "@TheCaconym@hexbear.net"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1736 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1737 …}
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  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1729 …}
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  -id: 44242
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  +ranking: 0
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  +apId: "https://hexbear.net/comment/4092349"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697152558 {#1721
    date: 2023-10-13 01:15:58.0 +02:00
  }
  +"title": 44242
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
23 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1726
  +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2371 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2022 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2085 …}
    +slug: "Vegan-food-The-west-vs-India"
    +title: "Vegan food: The west vs India"
    +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/5a20a8b5-c665-42a6-8155-df3afad7f5fa.jpeg"
    +body: null
    +type: "image"
    +lang: "en"
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    +commentCount: 429
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      date: 2023-11-10 14:50:47.0 +01:00
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    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2082 …}
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    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2164 …}
    +children: [
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1709
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1654 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
        +body: """
          I get it but this is an emotional appeal. I’m just trying to explain the logic of what was being said here\n
          \n
          I like the fake meat stuff too, and often try to make it myself even though I’ve never had meat on purpose in my life and actually throw up if I do accidentally. I just like the kitchen chemistry aspect of it I guess\n
          \n
          I’m not saying we should stop making vegan alternatives to meat. I’m saying people should stop desiring meat or meat alternatives. Because logically that desire of meat is the cause of both meat and meat alternatives. Like how the cure to nicotine addiction isn’t nicotine patches alone
          """
        +lang: "en"
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          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
          "@qjkxbmwvz@lemmy.sdf.org"
          "@muddi@hexbear.net"
          "@Saeculum@hexbear.net"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1671 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1667 …}
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        -id: 44126
        -bodyTs: "'accident':57 'actual':51 'addict':113 'alon':118 'altern':78,91,106 'appeal':9 'aspect':64 'caus':100 'chemistri':63 'cure':110 'desir':87,95 'emot':8 'even':38 'explain':15 'fake':27 'get':2 'guess':68 'isn':114 'kitchen':62 'life':49 'like':25,60,107 'logic':17,93 'm':11,70,82 'make':35,76 'meat':28,44,80,88,90,97,103,105 'never':42 'nicotin':112,116 'often':32 'patch':117 'peopl':84 'purpos':46 'said':22 'say':72,83 'stop':75,86 'stuff':29 'though':39 'throw':52 'tri':13,33 've':41 'vegan':77"
        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://hexbear.net/comment/4091950"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697148567 {#1438
          date: 2023-10-13 00:09:27.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 44126
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1548
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1550 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
        +body: "Okay but we aren’t there yet and the vegans who I know who have broken their mental attachment to this meat “culture” have not even been tempted to go back once compared to those others"
        +lang: "en"
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        +favouriteCount: 4
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          "@qjkxbmwvz@lemmy.sdf.org"
          "@seitanic@lemmy.sdf.org"
          "@muddi@hexbear.net"
          "@Saeculum@hexbear.net"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1561 …}
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        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1557 …}
        -id: 44132
        -bodyTs: "'aren':4 'attach':19 'back':31 'broken':16 'compar':33 'cultur':23 'even':26 'go':30 'know':13 'meat':22 'mental':18 'okay':1 'other':36 'tempt':28 'vegan':10 'yet':7"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://hexbear.net/comment/4091961"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697148701 {#1559
          date: 2023-10-13 00:11:41.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 44132
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1604
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
        +body: """
          Yeah, if they were Indian. The culture around meat is different than in the West eg. some people only eat meat on a certain day or weekend. Even then, the approach is that meat is disgusting and needs to be cooked and spiced thoroughly before consuming anyhow. And there is already a long and popular tradition of simple alternatives to meat dishes like using potatoes or paneer (or “soy paneer” aka tofu to make it vegan)\n
          \n
          Again, my point is that it is not about the individual but the social ingraining and pressure around meat as a category in itself for individuals
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
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          date: 2023-10-13 00:21:13.0 +02:00
        }
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          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
          "@qjkxbmwvz@lemmy.sdf.org"
          "@seitanic@lemmy.sdf.org"
          "@muddi@hexbear.net"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1619 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1701 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1687 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1689 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1691 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1795 …}
        -id: 44147
        -bodyTs: "'aka':71 'alreadi':51 'altern':59 'anyhow':47 'approach':31 'around':8,94 'categori':98 'certain':24 'consum':46 'cook':41 'cultur':7 'day':25 'differ':11 'disgust':36 'dish':62 'eat':20 'eg':16 'even':28 'indian':5 'individu':87,102 'ingrain':91 'like':63 'long':53 'make':74 'meat':9,21,34,61,95 'need':38 'paneer':67,70 'peopl':18 'point':79 'popular':55 'potato':65 'pressur':93 'simpl':58 'social':90 'soy':69 'spice':43 'thorough':44 'tofu':72 'tradit':56 'use':64 'vegan':76 'weekend':27 'west':15 'yeah':1"
        +ranking: 0
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        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697149411 {#1620
          date: 2023-10-13 00:23:31.0 +02:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697149273 {#1613
          date: 2023-10-13 00:21:13.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 44147
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1611
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1598 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1598 …}
        +body: "Hence this meme"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 7
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1697150846 {#1711
          date: 2023-10-13 00:47:26.0 +02:00
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          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
          "@Taleya@aussie.zone"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1630 …}
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        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1599 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1625 …}
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        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1725 …}
        -id: 44189
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          date: 2023-10-13 00:47:26.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 44189
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1726}
    ]
    -id: 4724
    -titleTs: "'food':2 'india':6 'vegan':1 'vs':5 'west':4"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1697226439
    +visibility: "visible             "
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    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697140039 {#1696
      date: 2023-10-12 21:47:19.0 +02:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1728 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
  +body: """
    > No, their metaphor was not ignorant at all.\n
    \n
    I was half-joking, but yes it was ignorant? Lesbians don’t choose their sexuality, but people do choose to be vegan. There is an ignorance of sexuality and diet there. Also, people do try going vegan, eat some fake meat and cheese, and eventually go back to eating meat because they still crave meat in itself. This does happen. This is also related to those people who sneak in or revert to eating meat because of some cultural or family tradition, or peer pressure from friends. One vegan I knew who was going on for 25 years ate a steak to impress his business friends instead of speaking up to say he didn’t want to eat at a meat-only restaurant. Take a look at my other comments here, I am speaking about this topic at the social level, not how individuals like the taste of meat or fake meat.\n
    \n
    > there is nothing wrong with it at all\n
    \n
    Yeah I know, I have been saying that. This is not a moral argument. This is a rational one, and one perhaps from a medical or public health perspective: the cultural desire to obtain “meat” as a thing in itself is the cause for the demand of meat or meat alternatives. It’s great that under capitalism that solutions can be provided via the market and supply-and-demand, whatever, but it doesn’t address the reason why there is a demand in the first place.\n
    \n
    How I know it’s a cultivated desire: it doesn’t exist across cultures. Hell it doesn’t exist within the western fake meat market itself: how much fake seafood do you see engineered out there? Or exotic meats ie objects perfectly engineered to mimic dog, cat, or even human meat? I’m sure human taste buds can enjoy long pork, real or fake. Yet basically no one is asking for this right?
    """
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    date: 2023-10-13 01:15:58.0 +02:00
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    "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
    "@qjkxbmwvz@lemmy.sdf.org"
    "@Vegasimov@reddthat.com"
    "@muddi@hexbear.net"
    "@TheCaconym@hexbear.net"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1736 …}
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  +ranking: 0
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  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697152558 {#1721
    date: 2023-10-13 01:15:58.0 +02:00
  }
  +"title": 44242
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
24 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1726
  +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2371 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2022 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2085 …}
    +slug: "Vegan-food-The-west-vs-India"
    +title: "Vegan food: The west vs India"
    +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/5a20a8b5-c665-42a6-8155-df3afad7f5fa.jpeg"
    +body: null
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      date: 2023-11-10 14:50:47.0 +01:00
    }
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    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2082 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2097 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2084 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2345 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2131 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2164 …}
    +children: [
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1709
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1654 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
        +body: """
          I get it but this is an emotional appeal. I’m just trying to explain the logic of what was being said here\n
          \n
          I like the fake meat stuff too, and often try to make it myself even though I’ve never had meat on purpose in my life and actually throw up if I do accidentally. I just like the kitchen chemistry aspect of it I guess\n
          \n
          I’m not saying we should stop making vegan alternatives to meat. I’m saying people should stop desiring meat or meat alternatives. Because logically that desire of meat is the cause of both meat and meat alternatives. Like how the cure to nicotine addiction isn’t nicotine patches alone
          """
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          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
          "@qjkxbmwvz@lemmy.sdf.org"
          "@muddi@hexbear.net"
          "@Saeculum@hexbear.net"
        ]
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        -id: 44126
        -bodyTs: "'accident':57 'actual':51 'addict':113 'alon':118 'altern':78,91,106 'appeal':9 'aspect':64 'caus':100 'chemistri':63 'cure':110 'desir':87,95 'emot':8 'even':38 'explain':15 'fake':27 'get':2 'guess':68 'isn':114 'kitchen':62 'life':49 'like':25,60,107 'logic':17,93 'm':11,70,82 'make':35,76 'meat':28,44,80,88,90,97,103,105 'never':42 'nicotin':112,116 'often':32 'patch':117 'peopl':84 'purpos':46 'said':22 'say':72,83 'stop':75,86 'stuff':29 'though':39 'throw':52 'tri':13,33 've':41 'vegan':77"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-10-13 00:09:27.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 44126
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1548
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1550 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
        +body: "Okay but we aren’t there yet and the vegans who I know who have broken their mental attachment to this meat “culture” have not even been tempted to go back once compared to those others"
        +lang: "en"
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        +favouriteCount: 4
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          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
          "@qjkxbmwvz@lemmy.sdf.org"
          "@seitanic@lemmy.sdf.org"
          "@muddi@hexbear.net"
          "@Saeculum@hexbear.net"
        ]
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        -id: 44132
        -bodyTs: "'aren':4 'attach':19 'back':31 'broken':16 'compar':33 'cultur':23 'even':26 'go':30 'know':13 'meat':22 'mental':18 'okay':1 'other':36 'tempt':28 'vegan':10 'yet':7"
        +ranking: 0
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        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://hexbear.net/comment/4091961"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697148701 {#1559
          date: 2023-10-13 00:11:41.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 44132
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1604
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
        +body: """
          Yeah, if they were Indian. The culture around meat is different than in the West eg. some people only eat meat on a certain day or weekend. Even then, the approach is that meat is disgusting and needs to be cooked and spiced thoroughly before consuming anyhow. And there is already a long and popular tradition of simple alternatives to meat dishes like using potatoes or paneer (or “soy paneer” aka tofu to make it vegan)\n
          \n
          Again, my point is that it is not about the individual but the social ingraining and pressure around meat as a category in itself for individuals
          """
        +lang: "en"
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          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
          "@qjkxbmwvz@lemmy.sdf.org"
          "@seitanic@lemmy.sdf.org"
          "@muddi@hexbear.net"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1619 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1701 …}
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        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1689 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1691 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1795 …}
        -id: 44147
        -bodyTs: "'aka':71 'alreadi':51 'altern':59 'anyhow':47 'approach':31 'around':8,94 'categori':98 'certain':24 'consum':46 'cook':41 'cultur':7 'day':25 'differ':11 'disgust':36 'dish':62 'eat':20 'eg':16 'even':28 'indian':5 'individu':87,102 'ingrain':91 'like':63 'long':53 'make':74 'meat':9,21,34,61,95 'need':38 'paneer':67,70 'peopl':18 'point':79 'popular':55 'potato':65 'pressur':93 'simpl':58 'social':90 'soy':69 'spice':43 'thorough':44 'tofu':72 'tradit':56 'use':64 'vegan':76 'weekend':27 'west':15 'yeah':1"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-10-13 00:23:31.0 +02:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697149273 {#1613
          date: 2023-10-13 00:21:13.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 44147
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1611
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
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        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1598 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1598 …}
        +body: "Hence this meme"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 7
        +score: 0
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          date: 2023-10-13 00:47:26.0 +02:00
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          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
          "@Taleya@aussie.zone"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1630 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1628 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1599 …}
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        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1725 …}
        -id: 44189
        -bodyTs: "'henc':1 'meme':3"
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          date: 2023-10-13 00:47:26.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 44189
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1726}
    ]
    -id: 4724
    -titleTs: "'food':2 'india':6 'vegan':1 'vs':5 'west':4"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1697226439
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemmy.ml/post/6399513"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697140039 {#1696
      date: 2023-10-12 21:47:19.0 +02:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1728 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
  +body: """
    > No, their metaphor was not ignorant at all.\n
    \n
    I was half-joking, but yes it was ignorant? Lesbians don’t choose their sexuality, but people do choose to be vegan. There is an ignorance of sexuality and diet there. Also, people do try going vegan, eat some fake meat and cheese, and eventually go back to eating meat because they still crave meat in itself. This does happen. This is also related to those people who sneak in or revert to eating meat because of some cultural or family tradition, or peer pressure from friends. One vegan I knew who was going on for 25 years ate a steak to impress his business friends instead of speaking up to say he didn’t want to eat at a meat-only restaurant. Take a look at my other comments here, I am speaking about this topic at the social level, not how individuals like the taste of meat or fake meat.\n
    \n
    > there is nothing wrong with it at all\n
    \n
    Yeah I know, I have been saying that. This is not a moral argument. This is a rational one, and one perhaps from a medical or public health perspective: the cultural desire to obtain “meat” as a thing in itself is the cause for the demand of meat or meat alternatives. It’s great that under capitalism that solutions can be provided via the market and supply-and-demand, whatever, but it doesn’t address the reason why there is a demand in the first place.\n
    \n
    How I know it’s a cultivated desire: it doesn’t exist across cultures. Hell it doesn’t exist within the western fake meat market itself: how much fake seafood do you see engineered out there? Or exotic meats ie objects perfectly engineered to mimic dog, cat, or even human meat? I’m sure human taste buds can enjoy long pork, real or fake. Yet basically no one is asking for this right?
    """
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