Symfony Profiler

Security

Token

There is no security token.

Firewall

main Name

Security enabled

Stateless

Configuration

Key	Value
provider	security.user.provider.concrete.app_user_provider
context	main
entry_point	App\Security\KbinAuthenticator
user_checker	App\Security\UserChecker
access_denied_handler	(none)
access_denied_url	(none)
authenticators	[`"two_factor" "remember_me" "App\Security\KbinAuthenticator" "App\Security\FacebookAuthenticator" "App\Security\GoogleAuthenticator" "App\Security\GithubAuthenticator" "App\Security\KeycloakAuthenticator"`]

Listeners

Listener	Duration	Response
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\ChannelListener {#723`-map: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\AccessMap {#722 …} -logger: Monolog\Logger {#783 …} -httpPort: 80 -httpsPort: 443`}	0.00 ms	(none)
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\ContextListener {#706-tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\TokenStorage {#1017 …} -sessionKey: "_security_main" -logger: Monolog\Logger {#783 …} -userProviders: Symfony\Component\DependencyInjection\Argument\RewindableGenerator {#705 …} -dispatcher: Symfony\Component\EventDispatcher\Debug\TraceableEventDispatcher {#747 …} -registered: false -trustResolver: Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authentication\AuthenticationTrustResolver {#780 …} -sessionTrackerEnabler: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage::enableUsageTracking(): void {#703 …}}	0.16 ms	(none)
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\AuthenticatorManagerListener {#584`-authenticatorManager: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Authentication\AuthenticatorManager {#595 …}`}	0.00 ms	(none)
Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Http\Firewall\TwoFactorAccessListener {#582`-twoFactorFirewallConfig: Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\TwoFactor\TwoFactorFirewallConfig {#842 …} -tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage {#1018 …} -twoFactorAccessDecider: Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\TwoFactorAccessDecider {#581 …}`}	0.06 ms	(none)
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\AccessListener {#579`-tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage {#1018 …} -accessDecisionManager: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\TraceableAccessDecisionManager {#937 …} -map: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\AccessMap {#722 …}`}	0.00 ms	(none)
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\LogoutListener {#786`-tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage {#1018 …} -options: [ "csrf_parameter" => "_csrf_token" "csrf_token_id" => "logout" "logout_path" => "app_logout" ] -httpUtils: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\HttpUtils {#841 …} -csrfTokenManager: Symfony\Component\Security\Csrf\CsrfTokenManager {#1015 …} -eventDispatcher: Symfony\Component\EventDispatcher\Debug\TraceableEventDispatcher {#747 …}`}	0.00 ms	(none)

Authenticators

No authenticators have been recorded. Check previous profiles on your authentication endpoint.

Access Decision

affirmative Strategy


"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\AuthenticatedVoter"
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\ExpressionVoter"
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"

#	Voter class
1	"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\AuthenticatedVoter"
2	"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
3	"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
4	"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\ExpressionVoter"
5	"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
6	"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
7	"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
8	"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
9	"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
10	"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
11	"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
12	"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
13	"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
14	"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"

Access decision log


null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2457
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2800 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
  +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2840 …}
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2784 …}
  +slug: "Sh-t-Gold"
  +title: "Sh*t Gold ."
  +url: "https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/c15bf721-a68d-4e1e-b646-2328f236b93d.jpeg"
  +body: null
  +type: "image"
  +lang: "en"
  +isOc: false
  +hasEmbed: true
  +commentCount: 99
  +favouriteCount: 532
  +score: 0
  +isAdult: false
  +sticky: false
  +lastActive: DateTime @1696978596 {#2835
    date: 2023-10-11 00:56:36.0 +02:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +adaAmount: 0
  +tags: null
  +mentions: null
  +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2842 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2844 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2846 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2848 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2850 …}
  +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2852 …}
  +children: [
    App\Entity\EntryComment {#2455
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2457 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2460 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2460 …}
      +body: "I always thought coffee already tasted like shit, so…"
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 1
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1696527884 {#1717
        date: 2023-10-05 19:44:44.0 +02:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@mod_pp@lemmy.world"
        "@Fizz@lemmy.nz"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2453 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2468 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2469 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2471 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2363 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2377 …}
      -id: 33418
      -bodyTs: "'alreadi':5 'alway':2 'coffe':4 'like':7 'shit':8 'tast':6 'thought':3"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/comment/4025642"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1696527884 {#2454
        date: 2023-10-05 19:44:44.0 +02:00
      }
      +"title": 33418
    }
  ]
  -id: 2976
  -titleTs: "'gold':3 'sh':1"
  -bodyTs: null
  +cross: false
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +ranking: 1696581587
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://lemmy.world/post/6328781"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1696495187 {#2822
    date: 2023-10-05 10:39:47.0 +02:00
  }
  +__isInitialized__: true
   …2
}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2457
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2800 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
  +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2840 …}
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2784 …}
  +slug: "Sh-t-Gold"
  +title: "Sh*t Gold ."
  +url: "https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/c15bf721-a68d-4e1e-b646-2328f236b93d.jpeg"
  +body: null
  +type: "image"
  +lang: "en"
  +isOc: false
  +hasEmbed: true
  +commentCount: 99
  +favouriteCount: 532
  +score: 0
  +isAdult: false
  +sticky: false
  +lastActive: DateTime @1696978596 {#2835
    date: 2023-10-11 00:56:36.0 +02:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +adaAmount: 0
  +tags: null
  +mentions: null
  +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2842 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2844 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2846 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2848 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2850 …}
  +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2852 …}
  +children: [
    App\Entity\EntryComment {#2455
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2457 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2460 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2460 …}
      +body: "I always thought coffee already tasted like shit, so…"
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 1
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1696527884 {#1717
        date: 2023-10-05 19:44:44.0 +02:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@mod_pp@lemmy.world"
        "@Fizz@lemmy.nz"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2453 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2468 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2469 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2471 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2363 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2377 …}
      -id: 33418
      -bodyTs: "'alreadi':5 'alway':2 'coffe':4 'like':7 'shit':8 'tast':6 'thought':3"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/comment/4025642"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1696527884 {#2454
        date: 2023-10-05 19:44:44.0 +02:00
      }
      +"title": 33418
    }
  ]
  -id: 2976
  -titleTs: "'gold':3 'sh':1"
  -bodyTs: null
  +cross: false
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +ranking: 1696581587
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://lemmy.world/post/6328781"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1696495187 {#2822
    date: 2023-10-05 10:39:47.0 +02:00
  }
  +__isInitialized__: true
   …2
}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2457
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2800 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
  +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2840 …}
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2784 …}
  +slug: "Sh-t-Gold"
  +title: "Sh*t Gold ."
  +url: "https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/c15bf721-a68d-4e1e-b646-2328f236b93d.jpeg"
  +body: null
  +type: "image"
  +lang: "en"
  +isOc: false
  +hasEmbed: true
  +commentCount: 99
  +favouriteCount: 532
  +score: 0
  +isAdult: false
  +sticky: false
  +lastActive: DateTime @1696978596 {#2835
    date: 2023-10-11 00:56:36.0 +02:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +adaAmount: 0
  +tags: null
  +mentions: null
  +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2842 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2844 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2846 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2848 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2850 …}
  +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2852 …}
  +children: [
    App\Entity\EntryComment {#2455
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2457 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2460 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2460 …}
      +body: "I always thought coffee already tasted like shit, so…"
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 1
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1696527884 {#1717
        date: 2023-10-05 19:44:44.0 +02:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@mod_pp@lemmy.world"
        "@Fizz@lemmy.nz"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2453 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2468 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2469 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2471 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2363 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2377 …}
      -id: 33418
      -bodyTs: "'alreadi':5 'alway':2 'coffe':4 'like':7 'shit':8 'tast':6 'thought':3"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/comment/4025642"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1696527884 {#2454
        date: 2023-10-05 19:44:44.0 +02:00
      }
      +"title": 33418
    }
  ]
  -id: 2976
  -titleTs: "'gold':3 'sh':1"
  -bodyTs: null
  +cross: false
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +ranking: 1696581587
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://lemmy.world/post/6328781"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1696495187 {#2822
    date: 2023-10-05 10:39:47.0 +02:00
  }
  +__isInitialized__: true
   …2
}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2455
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2457
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2800 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2840 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2784 …}
    +slug: "Sh-t-Gold"
    +title: "Sh*t Gold ."
    +url: "https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/c15bf721-a68d-4e1e-b646-2328f236b93d.jpeg"
    +body: null
    +type: "image"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: true
    +commentCount: 99
    +favouriteCount: 532
    +score: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +sticky: false
    +lastActive: DateTime @1696978596 {#2835
      date: 2023-10-11 00:56:36.0 +02:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2842 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2844 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2846 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2848 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2850 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2852 …}
    +children: [
      App\Entity\EntryComment {#2455}
    ]
    -id: 2976
    -titleTs: "'gold':3 'sh':1"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1696581587
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemmy.world/post/6328781"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1696495187 {#2822
      date: 2023-10-05 10:39:47.0 +02:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2460 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2460 …}
  +body: "I always thought coffee already tasted like shit, so…"
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 1
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1696527884 {#1717
    date: 2023-10-05 19:44:44.0 +02:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@mod_pp@lemmy.world"
    "@Fizz@lemmy.nz"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2453 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2468 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2469 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2471 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2363 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2377 …}
  -id: 33418
  -bodyTs: "'alreadi':5 'alway':2 'coffe':4 'like':7 'shit':8 'tast':6 'thought':3"
  +ranking: 0
  +commentCount: 0
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/comment/4025642"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1696527884 {#2454
    date: 2023-10-05 19:44:44.0 +02:00
  }
  +"title": 33418
}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2455
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2457
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2800 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2840 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2784 …}
    +slug: "Sh-t-Gold"
    +title: "Sh*t Gold ."
    +url: "https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/c15bf721-a68d-4e1e-b646-2328f236b93d.jpeg"
    +body: null
    +type: "image"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: true
    +commentCount: 99
    +favouriteCount: 532
    +score: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +sticky: false
    +lastActive: DateTime @1696978596 {#2835
      date: 2023-10-11 00:56:36.0 +02:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2842 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2844 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2846 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2848 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2850 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2852 …}
    +children: [
      App\Entity\EntryComment {#2455}
    ]
    -id: 2976
    -titleTs: "'gold':3 'sh':1"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1696581587
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemmy.world/post/6328781"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1696495187 {#2822
      date: 2023-10-05 10:39:47.0 +02:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2460 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2460 …}
  +body: "I always thought coffee already tasted like shit, so…"
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 1
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1696527884 {#1717
    date: 2023-10-05 19:44:44.0 +02:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@mod_pp@lemmy.world"
    "@Fizz@lemmy.nz"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2453 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2468 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2469 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2471 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2363 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2377 …}
  -id: 33418
  -bodyTs: "'alreadi':5 'alway':2 'coffe':4 'like':7 'shit':8 'tast':6 'thought':3"
  +ranking: 0
  +commentCount: 0
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/comment/4025642"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1696527884 {#2454
    date: 2023-10-05 19:44:44.0 +02:00
  }
  +"title": 33418
}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2455
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2457
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2800 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2840 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2784 …}
    +slug: "Sh-t-Gold"
    +title: "Sh*t Gold ."
    +url: "https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/c15bf721-a68d-4e1e-b646-2328f236b93d.jpeg"
    +body: null
    +type: "image"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: true
    +commentCount: 99
    +favouriteCount: 532
    +score: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +sticky: false
    +lastActive: DateTime @1696978596 {#2835
      date: 2023-10-11 00:56:36.0 +02:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2842 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2844 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2846 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2848 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2850 …}
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2448
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  +body: "I used to work retail loss prevention and had several of the exact opposite- we’d get contract security to supplement our staff as a visual deterrent and they would then think they were given carte blanche to hassle whoever the fuck they wanted. It really didn’t take long to realize that as long as I treated shoplifters with respect, more often than not they would come with, take care of the paperwork, get their ticket from the real cops and then be on their way unless the jurisdiction required they get booked. But there would always be that one fuckhead trying to steal thousands of dollars worth of shit and then act like we had no right to stop or detain them . I know it varies by where you live, but we were fully allowed to make citizens arrests and would do so daily. In 21 years I got subpoenaed four times and testified once. Never lost one case."
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  +"title": 14011
}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1687
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    +slug: "People-who-work-in-food-service-or-customer-service-What-s"
    +title: "People who work in food service or customer service: What’s the dumbest thing a customer ever insisted was “the law” or “illegal”?"
    +url: null
    +body: "Brought to you by my discovery that some people think that “the customer is always right” isn’t the slogan of a long-dead department store, but rather it’s an actual call the cops law."
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  +body: "I used to work retail loss prevention and had several of the exact opposite- we’d get contract security to supplement our staff as a visual deterrent and they would then think they were given carte blanche to hassle whoever the fuck they wanted. It really didn’t take long to realize that as long as I treated shoplifters with respect, more often than not they would come with, take care of the paperwork, get their ticket from the real cops and then be on their way unless the jurisdiction required they get booked. But there would always be that one fuckhead trying to steal thousands of dollars worth of shit and then act like we had no right to stop or detain them . I know it varies by where you live, but we were fully allowed to make citizens arrests and would do so daily. In 21 years I got subpoenaed four times and testified once. Never lost one case."
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    "@Kolanaki@yiffit.net"
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2063
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  +slug: "Buying-a-new-car-is-not-better-than-keeping-an"
  +title: "Buying a new car is not better than keeping an old one"
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          Just some points that I have not seen discussed-\n
          \n
          1. Time to refuel / practical vehicle range 1a. The cost involved in having charging installed on your property\n
          2. Weather. Snow. Effect of cold on batteries. I know everyone hates those evil SUV’s, bit when there’s 14" of snow on the ground your tesla/volt/insert your favorite EV ain’t gonna cut it\n
          3. To the “just put in mass transit” crowd, do you feel that eminent domain is justified to take property from someone to fulfill this need?\n
          \n
          Honestly not trying to troll, these are real questions that should be answered\n
          \n
          And for the record, my vehicle is a compact sedan, getting on average 34-37mpg, so I’m not in that dick-size contest over who’s truck has the bigger lift kit
          """
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        -id: 41520
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      +body: "I never said you need one. I make do without one, however there are plenty of times during our winters here the larger wheels/greater ground clearance would be extremely useful. Just because it doesn’t work for you or me doesn’t mean there are people it does work for."
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      -id: 41801
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      +"title": 41801
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    1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2098}
    2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2130
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      +body: """
        The discussion was about EV’s, you missed the point. But ill bite.\n
        \n
        1/1a. My relatively short daily commute of 20 minutes turns into 1:10. My time is more valuable than money, so no. 2. “Before the SUV” people didn’t have to commute much further than down the street for work, so no. 3. Cool. You first.
        """
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        Not to argue semantics, but moving people from cars to public transit keeps the same people on the roads, but fewer vehicles. While i get your line of reasoning, accuracy counts.\n
        \n
        If you’re willing to give up what you own to move to denser populated areas that meet your needs, great! I’m all for it. That’s YOUR choice.\n
        \n
        On the flip side, who decides who is allowed to operate a personal vehicle? To me, that seems like the opposite of a choice.\n
        \n
        But once again, the conversation was about EVs. You want dense vertical growth urbanism, be my guest, but I’m really not interested.
        """
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2063
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  +slug: "Buying-a-new-car-is-not-better-than-keeping-an"
  +title: "Buying a new car is not better than keeping an old one"
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          Just some points that I have not seen discussed-\n
          \n
          1. Time to refuel / practical vehicle range 1a. The cost involved in having charging installed on your property\n
          2. Weather. Snow. Effect of cold on batteries. I know everyone hates those evil SUV’s, bit when there’s 14" of snow on the ground your tesla/volt/insert your favorite EV ain’t gonna cut it\n
          3. To the “just put in mass transit” crowd, do you feel that eminent domain is justified to take property from someone to fulfill this need?\n
          \n
          Honestly not trying to troll, these are real questions that should be answered\n
          \n
          And for the record, my vehicle is a compact sedan, getting on average 34-37mpg, so I’m not in that dick-size contest over who’s truck has the bigger lift kit
          """
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          "@Custoslibera@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2080 …}
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        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2091 …}
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        -id: 41520
        -bodyTs: "'-37':117 '1':10 '14':48 '1a':17 '2':28 '3':64 '34':116 'ain':59 'answer':102 'averag':115 'batteri':35 'bigger':135 'bit':44 'charg':23 'cold':33 'compact':111 'contest':128 'cost':19 'crowd':72 'cut':62 'dick':126 'dick-siz':125 'discuss':9 'domain':78 'effect':31 'emin':77 'ev':58 'everyon':38 'evil':41 'favorit':57 'feel':75 'fulfil':87 'get':113 'gonna':61 'ground':53 'hate':39 'honest':90 'instal':24 'involv':20 'justifi':80 'kit':137 'know':37 'lift':136 'm':121 'mass':70 'mpg':118 'need':89 'point':3 'practic':14 'properti':27,83 'put':68 'question':98 'rang':16 'real':97 'record':106 'refuel':13 'sedan':112 'seen':8 'size':127 'snow':30,50 'someon':85 'suv':42 'take':82 'tesla/volt/insert':55 'time':11 'transit':71 'tri':92 'troll':94 'truck':132 'vehicl':15,108 'weather':29"
        +ranking: 0
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697036743 {#2077
          date: 2023-10-11 17:05:43.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41520
      }
      +body: "I never said you need one. I make do without one, however there are plenty of times during our winters here the larger wheels/greater ground clearance would be extremely useful. Just because it doesn’t work for you or me doesn’t mean there are people it does work for."
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        date: 2023-10-11 20:31:39.0 +02:00
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        "@Custoslibera@lemmy.world"
        "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        "@mriguy@lemmy.world"
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      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2072 …}
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      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2051 …}
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      -bodyTs: "'clearanc':26 'doesn':34,41 'extrem':29 'ground':25 'howev':12 'larger':23 'make':8 'mean':43 'need':5 'never':2 'one':6,11 'peopl':46 'plenti':15 'said':3 'time':17 'use':30 'wheels/greater':24 'winter':20 'without':10 'work':36,49 'would':27"
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        date: 2023-10-11 20:31:39.0 +02:00
      }
      +"title": 41801
    }
    1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2098}
    2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2130
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2063 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2133 …}
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2098}
      +body: """
        The discussion was about EV’s, you missed the point. But ill bite.\n
        \n
        1/1a. My relatively short daily commute of 20 minutes turns into 1:10. My time is more valuable than money, so no. 2. “Before the SUV” people didn’t have to commute much further than down the street for work, so no. 3. Cool. You first.
        """
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        date: 2023-10-11 17:31:27.0 +02:00
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        "@Custoslibera@lemmy.world"
        "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        "@SasquatchBanana@lemmy.world"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2129 …}
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      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697038287 {#2140
        date: 2023-10-11 17:31:27.0 +02:00
      }
      +"title": 41556
    }
    0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2108
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2063 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2111 …}
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2098}
      +body: """
        Not to argue semantics, but moving people from cars to public transit keeps the same people on the roads, but fewer vehicles. While i get your line of reasoning, accuracy counts.\n
        \n
        If you’re willing to give up what you own to move to denser populated areas that meet your needs, great! I’m all for it. That’s YOUR choice.\n
        \n
        On the flip side, who decides who is allowed to operate a personal vehicle? To me, that seems like the opposite of a choice.\n
        \n
        But once again, the conversation was about EVs. You want dense vertical growth urbanism, be my guest, but I’m really not interested.
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
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        "@Custoslibera@lemmy.world"
        "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        "@SasquatchBanana@lemmy.world"
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    date: 2023-10-11 00:15:50.0 +02:00
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   …2
}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2063
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2728 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
  +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2782 …}
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2784 …}
  +slug: "Buying-a-new-car-is-not-better-than-keeping-an"
  +title: "Buying a new car is not better than keeping an old one"
  +url: "https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/cb418898-8868-4eff-b57b-471ca95d4020.jpeg"
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    date: 2024-09-23 12:12:26.0 +02:00
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  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2793 …}
  +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2795 …}
  +children: [
    3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2073
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2063 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
      +image: null
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: null
        +root: null
        +body: """
          Just some points that I have not seen discussed-\n
          \n
          1. Time to refuel / practical vehicle range 1a. The cost involved in having charging installed on your property\n
          2. Weather. Snow. Effect of cold on batteries. I know everyone hates those evil SUV’s, bit when there’s 14" of snow on the ground your tesla/volt/insert your favorite EV ain’t gonna cut it\n
          3. To the “just put in mass transit” crowd, do you feel that eminent domain is justified to take property from someone to fulfill this need?\n
          \n
          Honestly not trying to troll, these are real questions that should be answered\n
          \n
          And for the record, my vehicle is a compact sedan, getting on average 34-37mpg, so I’m not in that dick-size contest over who’s truck has the bigger lift kit
          """
        +lang: "en"
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        }
        +ip: null
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        +mentions: [
          "@Custoslibera@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2080 …}
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        }
        +"title": 41520
      }
      +body: "I never said you need one. I make do without one, however there are plenty of times during our winters here the larger wheels/greater ground clearance would be extremely useful. Just because it doesn’t work for you or me doesn’t mean there are people it does work for."
      +lang: "en"
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        "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        "@mriguy@lemmy.world"
      ]
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      -bodyTs: "'clearanc':26 'doesn':34,41 'extrem':29 'ground':25 'howev':12 'larger':23 'make':8 'mean':43 'need':5 'never':2 'one':6,11 'peopl':46 'plenti':15 'said':3 'time':17 'use':30 'wheels/greater':24 'winter':20 'without':10 'work':36,49 'would':27"
      +ranking: 0
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        date: 2023-10-11 20:31:39.0 +02:00
      }
      +"title": 41801
    }
    1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2098}
    2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2130
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      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2063 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2133 …}
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2098}
      +body: """
        The discussion was about EV’s, you missed the point. But ill bite.\n
        \n
        1/1a. My relatively short daily commute of 20 minutes turns into 1:10. My time is more valuable than money, so no. 2. “Before the SUV” people didn’t have to commute much further than down the street for work, so no. 3. Cool. You first.
        """
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        "@Custoslibera@lemmy.world"
        "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        "@SasquatchBanana@lemmy.world"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2129 …}
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        date: 2023-10-11 17:31:27.0 +02:00
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      +"title": 41556
    }
    0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2108
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2063 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2111 …}
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2098}
      +body: """
        Not to argue semantics, but moving people from cars to public transit keeps the same people on the roads, but fewer vehicles. While i get your line of reasoning, accuracy counts.\n
        \n
        If you’re willing to give up what you own to move to denser populated areas that meet your needs, great! I’m all for it. That’s YOUR choice.\n
        \n
        On the flip side, who decides who is allowed to operate a personal vehicle? To me, that seems like the opposite of a choice.\n
        \n
        But once again, the conversation was about EVs. You want dense vertical growth urbanism, be my guest, but I’m really not interested.
        """
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        "@Custoslibera@lemmy.world"
        "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        "@SasquatchBanana@lemmy.world"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2101 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2109 …}
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        date: 2023-10-11 21:32:57.0 +02:00
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  ]
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  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1696976150 {#2749
    date: 2023-10-11 00:15:50.0 +02:00
  }
  +__isInitialized__: true
   …2
}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2073
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2063
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2728 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2782 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2784 …}
    +slug: "Buying-a-new-car-is-not-better-than-keeping-an"
    +title: "Buying a new car is not better than keeping an old one"
    +url: "https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/cb418898-8868-4eff-b57b-471ca95d4020.jpeg"
    +body: null
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    +lastActive: DateTime @1727086346 {#2777
      date: 2024-09-23 12:12:26.0 +02:00
    }
    +ip: null
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    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2785 …}
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    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2793 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2795 …}
    +children: [
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2073}
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2098
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: null
        +root: null
        +body: """
          Just some points that I have not seen discussed-\n
          \n
          1. Time to refuel / practical vehicle range 1a. The cost involved in having charging installed on your property\n
          2. Weather. Snow. Effect of cold on batteries. I know everyone hates those evil SUV’s, bit when there’s 14" of snow on the ground your tesla/volt/insert your favorite EV ain’t gonna cut it\n
          3. To the “just put in mass transit” crowd, do you feel that eminent domain is justified to take property from someone to fulfill this need?\n
          \n
          Honestly not trying to troll, these are real questions that should be answered\n
          \n
          And for the record, my vehicle is a compact sedan, getting on average 34-37mpg, so I’m not in that dick-size contest over who’s truck has the bigger lift kit
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 3
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        +lastActive: DateTime @1697052780 {#2081
          date: 2023-10-11 21:33:00.0 +02:00
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        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Custoslibera@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2080 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2089 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2095 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2091 …}
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        -id: 41520
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          date: 2023-10-11 17:05:43.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41520
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2130
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2063 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2133 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2098}
        +body: """
          The discussion was about EV’s, you missed the point. But ill bite.\n
          \n
          1/1a. My relatively short daily commute of 20 minutes turns into 1:10. My time is more valuable than money, so no. 2. “Before the SUV” people didn’t have to commute much further than down the street for work, so no. 3. Cool. You first.
          """
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        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-10-11 17:31:27.0 +02:00
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          "@Custoslibera@lemmy.world"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@SasquatchBanana@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2129 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2132 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2040 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2350 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2348 …}
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        -id: 41556
        -bodyTs: "'1':25 '1/1a':14 '10':26 '2':36 '20':21 '3':56 'bite':13 'commut':19,45 'cool':57 'daili':18 'didn':41 'discuss':2 'ev':5 'first':59 'ill':12 'minut':22 'miss':8 'money':33 'much':46 'peopl':40 'point':10 'relat':16 'short':17 'street':51 'suv':39 'time':28 'turn':23 'valuabl':31 'work':53"
        +ranking: 0
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697038287 {#2140
          date: 2023-10-11 17:31:27.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41556
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2108
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2063 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2111 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2098}
        +body: """
          Not to argue semantics, but moving people from cars to public transit keeps the same people on the roads, but fewer vehicles. While i get your line of reasoning, accuracy counts.\n
          \n
          If you’re willing to give up what you own to move to denser populated areas that meet your needs, great! I’m all for it. That’s YOUR choice.\n
          \n
          On the flip side, who decides who is allowed to operate a personal vehicle? To me, that seems like the opposite of a choice.\n
          \n
          But once again, the conversation was about EVs. You want dense vertical growth urbanism, be my guest, but I’m really not interested.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
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          date: 2023-10-11 21:32:57.0 +02:00
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        +tags: null
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          "@Custoslibera@lemmy.world"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@SasquatchBanana@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2101 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2109 …}
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        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2107 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2124 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2118 …}
        -id: 41874
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        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-10-11 21:32:57.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 41874
      }
    ]
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1696976150 {#2749
      date: 2023-10-11 00:15:50.0 +02:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2098}
  +body: "I never said you need one. I make do without one, however there are plenty of times during our winters here the larger wheels/greater ground clearance would be extremely useful. Just because it doesn’t work for you or me doesn’t mean there are people it does work for."
  +lang: "en"
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    date: 2023-10-11 20:31:39.0 +02:00
  }
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    "@Custoslibera@lemmy.world"
    "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
    "@mriguy@lemmy.world"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2072 …}
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  -id: 41801
  -bodyTs: "'clearanc':26 'doesn':34,41 'extrem':29 'ground':25 'howev':12 'larger':23 'make':8 'mean':43 'need':5 'never':2 'one':6,11 'peopl':46 'plenti':15 'said':3 'time':17 'use':30 'wheels/greater':24 'winter':20 'without':10 'work':36,49 'would':27"
  +ranking: 0
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    date: 2023-10-11 20:31:39.0 +02:00
  }
  +"title": 41801
}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2073
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2063
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    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2782 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2784 …}
    +slug: "Buying-a-new-car-is-not-better-than-keeping-an"
    +title: "Buying a new car is not better than keeping an old one"
    +url: "https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/cb418898-8868-4eff-b57b-471ca95d4020.jpeg"
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    +lastActive: DateTime @1727086346 {#2777
      date: 2024-09-23 12:12:26.0 +02:00
    }
    +ip: null
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    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2785 …}
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    +children: [
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2073}
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2098
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: null
        +root: null
        +body: """
          Just some points that I have not seen discussed-\n
          \n
          1. Time to refuel / practical vehicle range 1a. The cost involved in having charging installed on your property\n
          2. Weather. Snow. Effect of cold on batteries. I know everyone hates those evil SUV’s, bit when there’s 14" of snow on the ground your tesla/volt/insert your favorite EV ain’t gonna cut it\n
          3. To the “just put in mass transit” crowd, do you feel that eminent domain is justified to take property from someone to fulfill this need?\n
          \n
          Honestly not trying to troll, these are real questions that should be answered\n
          \n
          And for the record, my vehicle is a compact sedan, getting on average 34-37mpg, so I’m not in that dick-size contest over who’s truck has the bigger lift kit
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 3
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          date: 2023-10-11 21:33:00.0 +02:00
        }
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          "@Custoslibera@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2080 …}
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        -id: 41520
        -bodyTs: "'-37':117 '1':10 '14':48 '1a':17 '2':28 '3':64 '34':116 'ain':59 'answer':102 'averag':115 'batteri':35 'bigger':135 'bit':44 'charg':23 'cold':33 'compact':111 'contest':128 'cost':19 'crowd':72 'cut':62 'dick':126 'dick-siz':125 'discuss':9 'domain':78 'effect':31 'emin':77 'ev':58 'everyon':38 'evil':41 'favorit':57 'feel':75 'fulfil':87 'get':113 'gonna':61 'ground':53 'hate':39 'honest':90 'instal':24 'involv':20 'justifi':80 'kit':137 'know':37 'lift':136 'm':121 'mass':70 'mpg':118 'need':89 'point':3 'practic':14 'properti':27,83 'put':68 'question':98 'rang':16 'real':97 'record':106 'refuel':13 'sedan':112 'seen':8 'size':127 'snow':30,50 'someon':85 'suv':42 'take':82 'tesla/volt/insert':55 'time':11 'transit':71 'tri':92 'troll':94 'truck':132 'vehicl':15,108 'weather':29"
        +ranking: 0
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697036743 {#2077
          date: 2023-10-11 17:05:43.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41520
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2130
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        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2063 …2}
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        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2133 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2098}
        +body: """
          The discussion was about EV’s, you missed the point. But ill bite.\n
          \n
          1/1a. My relatively short daily commute of 20 minutes turns into 1:10. My time is more valuable than money, so no. 2. “Before the SUV” people didn’t have to commute much further than down the street for work, so no. 3. Cool. You first.
          """
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        +isAdult: false
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        +score: 0
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          date: 2023-10-11 17:31:27.0 +02:00
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        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Custoslibera@lemmy.world"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@SasquatchBanana@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2129 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2132 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2040 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2350 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2348 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2351 …}
        -id: 41556
        -bodyTs: "'1':25 '1/1a':14 '10':26 '2':36 '20':21 '3':56 'bite':13 'commut':19,45 'cool':57 'daili':18 'didn':41 'discuss':2 'ev':5 'first':59 'ill':12 'minut':22 'miss':8 'money':33 'much':46 'peopl':40 'point':10 'relat':16 'short':17 'street':51 'suv':39 'time':28 'turn':23 'valuabl':31 'work':53"
        +ranking: 0
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697038287 {#2140
          date: 2023-10-11 17:31:27.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41556
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2108
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2063 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2111 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2098}
        +body: """
          Not to argue semantics, but moving people from cars to public transit keeps the same people on the roads, but fewer vehicles. While i get your line of reasoning, accuracy counts.\n
          \n
          If you’re willing to give up what you own to move to denser populated areas that meet your needs, great! I’m all for it. That’s YOUR choice.\n
          \n
          On the flip side, who decides who is allowed to operate a personal vehicle? To me, that seems like the opposite of a choice.\n
          \n
          But once again, the conversation was about EVs. You want dense vertical growth urbanism, be my guest, but I’m really not interested.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
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          date: 2023-10-11 21:32:57.0 +02:00
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          "@Custoslibera@lemmy.world"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@SasquatchBanana@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2101 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2109 …}
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        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2124 …}
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        -id: 41874
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    ]
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1696976150 {#2749
      date: 2023-10-11 00:15:50.0 +02:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2068 …}
  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2098}
  +body: "I never said you need one. I make do without one, however there are plenty of times during our winters here the larger wheels/greater ground clearance would be extremely useful. Just because it doesn’t work for you or me doesn’t mean there are people it does work for."
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
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  +score: 0
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    date: 2023-10-11 20:31:39.0 +02:00
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  +ip: null
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  +mentions: [
    "@Custoslibera@lemmy.world"
    "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
    "@mriguy@lemmy.world"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2072 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2065 …}
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  -id: 41801
  -bodyTs: "'clearanc':26 'doesn':34,41 'extrem':29 'ground':25 'howev':12 'larger':23 'make':8 'mean':43 'need':5 'never':2 'one':6,11 'peopl':46 'plenti':15 'said':3 'time':17 'use':30 'wheels/greater':24 'winter':20 'without':10 'work':36,49 'would':27"
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    date: 2023-10-11 20:31:39.0 +02:00
  }
  +"title": 41801
}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2073
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    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2782 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2784 …}
    +slug: "Buying-a-new-car-is-not-better-than-keeping-an"
    +title: "Buying a new car is not better than keeping an old one"
    +url: "https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/cb418898-8868-4eff-b57b-471ca95d4020.jpeg"
    +body: null
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      date: 2024-09-23 12:12:26.0 +02:00
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    +ip: null
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    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2793 …}
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    +children: [
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2073}
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2098
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        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2063 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: null
        +root: null
        +body: """
          Just some points that I have not seen discussed-\n
          \n
          1. Time to refuel / practical vehicle range 1a. The cost involved in having charging installed on your property\n
          2. Weather. Snow. Effect of cold on batteries. I know everyone hates those evil SUV’s, bit when there’s 14" of snow on the ground your tesla/volt/insert your favorite EV ain’t gonna cut it\n
          3. To the “just put in mass transit” crowd, do you feel that eminent domain is justified to take property from someone to fulfill this need?\n
          \n
          Honestly not trying to troll, these are real questions that should be answered\n
          \n
          And for the record, my vehicle is a compact sedan, getting on average 34-37mpg, so I’m not in that dick-size contest over who’s truck has the bigger lift kit
          """
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          "@Custoslibera@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2080 …}
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          date: 2023-10-11 17:05:43.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 41520
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2130
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2133 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2098}
        +body: """
          The discussion was about EV’s, you missed the point. But ill bite.\n
          \n
          1/1a. My relatively short daily commute of 20 minutes turns into 1:10. My time is more valuable than money, so no. 2. “Before the SUV” people didn’t have to commute much further than down the street for work, so no. 3. Cool. You first.
          """
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@SasquatchBanana@lemmy.world"
        ]
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          date: 2023-10-11 17:31:27.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41556
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2108
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2063 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2111 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2098}
        +body: """
          Not to argue semantics, but moving people from cars to public transit keeps the same people on the roads, but fewer vehicles. While i get your line of reasoning, accuracy counts.\n
          \n
          If you’re willing to give up what you own to move to denser populated areas that meet your needs, great! I’m all for it. That’s YOUR choice.\n
          \n
          On the flip side, who decides who is allowed to operate a personal vehicle? To me, that seems like the opposite of a choice.\n
          \n
          But once again, the conversation was about EVs. You want dense vertical growth urbanism, be my guest, but I’m really not interested.
          """
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
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      date: 2023-10-11 00:15:50.0 +02:00
    }
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     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2098}
  +body: "I never said you need one. I make do without one, however there are plenty of times during our winters here the larger wheels/greater ground clearance would be extremely useful. Just because it doesn’t work for you or me doesn’t mean there are people it does work for."
  +lang: "en"
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    date: 2023-10-11 20:31:39.0 +02:00
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    "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
    "@mriguy@lemmy.world"
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2098
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    +slug: "Buying-a-new-car-is-not-better-than-keeping-an"
    +title: "Buying a new car is not better than keeping an old one"
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    +children: [
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2073
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2063 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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        +body: "I never said you need one. I make do without one, however there are plenty of times during our winters here the larger wheels/greater ground clearance would be extremely useful. Just because it doesn’t work for you or me doesn’t mean there are people it does work for."
        +lang: "en"
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@mriguy@lemmy.world"
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        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-10-11 20:31:39.0 +02:00
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2098}
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2130
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        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2063 …2}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2133 …}
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        +body: """
          The discussion was about EV’s, you missed the point. But ill bite.\n
          \n
          1/1a. My relatively short daily commute of 20 minutes turns into 1:10. My time is more valuable than money, so no. 2. “Before the SUV” people didn’t have to commute much further than down the street for work, so no. 3. Cool. You first.
          """
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@SasquatchBanana@lemmy.world"
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          date: 2023-10-11 17:31:27.0 +02:00
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2108
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        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2063 …2}
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        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2111 …}
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        +body: """
          Not to argue semantics, but moving people from cars to public transit keeps the same people on the roads, but fewer vehicles. While i get your line of reasoning, accuracy counts.\n
          \n
          If you’re willing to give up what you own to move to denser populated areas that meet your needs, great! I’m all for it. That’s YOUR choice.\n
          \n
          On the flip side, who decides who is allowed to operate a personal vehicle? To me, that seems like the opposite of a choice.\n
          \n
          But once again, the conversation was about EVs. You want dense vertical growth urbanism, be my guest, but I’m really not interested.
          """
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          "@Custoslibera@lemmy.world"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@SasquatchBanana@lemmy.world"
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      date: 2023-10-11 00:15:50.0 +02:00
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     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: null
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  +body: """
    Just some points that I have not seen discussed-\n
    \n
    1. Time to refuel / practical vehicle range 1a. The cost involved in having charging installed on your property\n
    2. Weather. Snow. Effect of cold on batteries. I know everyone hates those evil SUV’s, bit when there’s 14" of snow on the ground your tesla/volt/insert your favorite EV ain’t gonna cut it\n
    3. To the “just put in mass transit” crowd, do you feel that eminent domain is justified to take property from someone to fulfill this need?\n
    \n
    Honestly not trying to troll, these are real questions that should be answered\n
    \n
    And for the record, my vehicle is a compact sedan, getting on average 34-37mpg, so I’m not in that dick-size contest over who’s truck has the bigger lift kit
    """
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    "@Custoslibera@lemmy.world"
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  -id: 41520
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  +"title": 41520
}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2098
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    +slug: "Buying-a-new-car-is-not-better-than-keeping-an"
    +title: "Buying a new car is not better than keeping an old one"
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2073
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "I never said you need one. I make do without one, however there are plenty of times during our winters here the larger wheels/greater ground clearance would be extremely useful. Just because it doesn’t work for you or me doesn’t mean there are people it does work for."
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@mriguy@lemmy.world"
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          date: 2023-10-11 20:31:39.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41801
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2098}
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2130
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          The discussion was about EV’s, you missed the point. But ill bite.\n
          \n
          1/1a. My relatively short daily commute of 20 minutes turns into 1:10. My time is more valuable than money, so no. 2. “Before the SUV” people didn’t have to commute much further than down the street for work, so no. 3. Cool. You first.
          """
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          "@SasquatchBanana@lemmy.world"
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      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2108
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        +image: null
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          Not to argue semantics, but moving people from cars to public transit keeps the same people on the roads, but fewer vehicles. While i get your line of reasoning, accuracy counts.\n
          \n
          If you’re willing to give up what you own to move to denser populated areas that meet your needs, great! I’m all for it. That’s YOUR choice.\n
          \n
          On the flip side, who decides who is allowed to operate a personal vehicle? To me, that seems like the opposite of a choice.\n
          \n
          But once again, the conversation was about EVs. You want dense vertical growth urbanism, be my guest, but I’m really not interested.
          """
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          "@SasquatchBanana@lemmy.world"
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     …2
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    Just some points that I have not seen discussed-\n
    \n
    1. Time to refuel / practical vehicle range 1a. The cost involved in having charging installed on your property\n
    2. Weather. Snow. Effect of cold on batteries. I know everyone hates those evil SUV’s, bit when there’s 14" of snow on the ground your tesla/volt/insert your favorite EV ain’t gonna cut it\n
    3. To the “just put in mass transit” crowd, do you feel that eminent domain is justified to take property from someone to fulfill this need?\n
    \n
    Honestly not trying to troll, these are real questions that should be answered\n
    \n
    And for the record, my vehicle is a compact sedan, getting on average 34-37mpg, so I’m not in that dick-size contest over who’s truck has the bigger lift kit
    """
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2098
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2073
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        +body: "I never said you need one. I make do without one, however there are plenty of times during our winters here the larger wheels/greater ground clearance would be extremely useful. Just because it doesn’t work for you or me doesn’t mean there are people it does work for."
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          "@mriguy@lemmy.world"
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2098}
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2130
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        +body: """
          The discussion was about EV’s, you missed the point. But ill bite.\n
          \n
          1/1a. My relatively short daily commute of 20 minutes turns into 1:10. My time is more valuable than money, so no. 2. “Before the SUV” people didn’t have to commute much further than down the street for work, so no. 3. Cool. You first.
          """
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          "@SasquatchBanana@lemmy.world"
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2108
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        +image: null
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          Not to argue semantics, but moving people from cars to public transit keeps the same people on the roads, but fewer vehicles. While i get your line of reasoning, accuracy counts.\n
          \n
          If you’re willing to give up what you own to move to denser populated areas that meet your needs, great! I’m all for it. That’s YOUR choice.\n
          \n
          On the flip side, who decides who is allowed to operate a personal vehicle? To me, that seems like the opposite of a choice.\n
          \n
          But once again, the conversation was about EVs. You want dense vertical growth urbanism, be my guest, but I’m really not interested.
          """
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     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: null
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  +body: """
    Just some points that I have not seen discussed-\n
    \n
    1. Time to refuel / practical vehicle range 1a. The cost involved in having charging installed on your property\n
    2. Weather. Snow. Effect of cold on batteries. I know everyone hates those evil SUV’s, bit when there’s 14" of snow on the ground your tesla/volt/insert your favorite EV ain’t gonna cut it\n
    3. To the “just put in mass transit” crowd, do you feel that eminent domain is justified to take property from someone to fulfill this need?\n
    \n
    Honestly not trying to troll, these are real questions that should be answered\n
    \n
    And for the record, my vehicle is a compact sedan, getting on average 34-37mpg, so I’m not in that dick-size contest over who’s truck has the bigger lift kit
    """
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2130
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    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2784 …}
    +slug: "Buying-a-new-car-is-not-better-than-keeping-an"
    +title: "Buying a new car is not better than keeping an old one"
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2073
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            Just some points that I have not seen discussed-\n
            \n
            1. Time to refuel / practical vehicle range 1a. The cost involved in having charging installed on your property\n
            2. Weather. Snow. Effect of cold on batteries. I know everyone hates those evil SUV’s, bit when there’s 14" of snow on the ground your tesla/volt/insert your favorite EV ain’t gonna cut it\n
            3. To the “just put in mass transit” crowd, do you feel that eminent domain is justified to take property from someone to fulfill this need?\n
            \n
            Honestly not trying to troll, these are real questions that should be answered\n
            \n
            And for the record, my vehicle is a compact sedan, getting on average 34-37mpg, so I’m not in that dick-size contest over who’s truck has the bigger lift kit
            """
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            "@Custoslibera@lemmy.world"
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          +"title": 41520
        }
        +body: "I never said you need one. I make do without one, however there are plenty of times during our winters here the larger wheels/greater ground clearance would be extremely useful. Just because it doesn’t work for you or me doesn’t mean there are people it does work for."
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          date: 2023-10-11 20:31:39.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 41801
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2098}
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2130}
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2108
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        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2063 …2}
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          Not to argue semantics, but moving people from cars to public transit keeps the same people on the roads, but fewer vehicles. While i get your line of reasoning, accuracy counts.\n
          \n
          If you’re willing to give up what you own to move to denser populated areas that meet your needs, great! I’m all for it. That’s YOUR choice.\n
          \n
          On the flip side, who decides who is allowed to operate a personal vehicle? To me, that seems like the opposite of a choice.\n
          \n
          But once again, the conversation was about EVs. You want dense vertical growth urbanism, be my guest, but I’m really not interested.
          """
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@SasquatchBanana@lemmy.world"
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    The discussion was about EV’s, you missed the point. But ill bite.\n
    \n
    1/1a. My relatively short daily commute of 20 minutes turns into 1:10. My time is more valuable than money, so no. 2. “Before the SUV” people didn’t have to commute much further than down the street for work, so no. 3. Cool. You first.
    """
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    "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
    "@SasquatchBanana@lemmy.world"
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2130
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    +title: "Buying a new car is not better than keeping an old one"
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2073
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          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
          +image: null
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            Just some points that I have not seen discussed-\n
            \n
            1. Time to refuel / practical vehicle range 1a. The cost involved in having charging installed on your property\n
            2. Weather. Snow. Effect of cold on batteries. I know everyone hates those evil SUV’s, bit when there’s 14" of snow on the ground your tesla/volt/insert your favorite EV ain’t gonna cut it\n
            3. To the “just put in mass transit” crowd, do you feel that eminent domain is justified to take property from someone to fulfill this need?\n
            \n
            Honestly not trying to troll, these are real questions that should be answered\n
            \n
            And for the record, my vehicle is a compact sedan, getting on average 34-37mpg, so I’m not in that dick-size contest over who’s truck has the bigger lift kit
            """
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            "@Custoslibera@lemmy.world"
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          +"title": 41520
        }
        +body: "I never said you need one. I make do without one, however there are plenty of times during our winters here the larger wheels/greater ground clearance would be extremely useful. Just because it doesn’t work for you or me doesn’t mean there are people it does work for."
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@mriguy@lemmy.world"
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2130}
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          Not to argue semantics, but moving people from cars to public transit keeps the same people on the roads, but fewer vehicles. While i get your line of reasoning, accuracy counts.\n
          \n
          If you’re willing to give up what you own to move to denser populated areas that meet your needs, great! I’m all for it. That’s YOUR choice.\n
          \n
          On the flip side, who decides who is allowed to operate a personal vehicle? To me, that seems like the opposite of a choice.\n
          \n
          But once again, the conversation was about EVs. You want dense vertical growth urbanism, be my guest, but I’m really not interested.
          """
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@SasquatchBanana@lemmy.world"
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     …2
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    The discussion was about EV’s, you missed the point. But ill bite.\n
    \n
    1/1a. My relatively short daily commute of 20 minutes turns into 1:10. My time is more valuable than money, so no. 2. “Before the SUV” people didn’t have to commute much further than down the street for work, so no. 3. Cool. You first.
    """
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    "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2130
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    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2784 …}
    +slug: "Buying-a-new-car-is-not-better-than-keeping-an"
    +title: "Buying a new car is not better than keeping an old one"
    +url: "https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/cb418898-8868-4eff-b57b-471ca95d4020.jpeg"
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    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2793 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2795 …}
    +children: [
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2073
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2063 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2068 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2098
          +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
          +image: null
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          +body: """
            Just some points that I have not seen discussed-\n
            \n
            1. Time to refuel / practical vehicle range 1a. The cost involved in having charging installed on your property\n
            2. Weather. Snow. Effect of cold on batteries. I know everyone hates those evil SUV’s, bit when there’s 14" of snow on the ground your tesla/volt/insert your favorite EV ain’t gonna cut it\n
            3. To the “just put in mass transit” crowd, do you feel that eminent domain is justified to take property from someone to fulfill this need?\n
            \n
            Honestly not trying to troll, these are real questions that should be answered\n
            \n
            And for the record, my vehicle is a compact sedan, getting on average 34-37mpg, so I’m not in that dick-size contest over who’s truck has the bigger lift kit
            """
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            date: 2023-10-11 21:33:00.0 +02:00
          }
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            "@Custoslibera@lemmy.world"
          ]
          +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2080 …}
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            date: 2023-10-11 17:05:43.0 +02:00
          }
          +"title": 41520
        }
        +body: "I never said you need one. I make do without one, however there are plenty of times during our winters here the larger wheels/greater ground clearance would be extremely useful. Just because it doesn’t work for you or me doesn’t mean there are people it does work for."
        +lang: "en"
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@mriguy@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 41801
        -bodyTs: "'clearanc':26 'doesn':34,41 'extrem':29 'ground':25 'howev':12 'larger':23 'make':8 'mean':43 'need':5 'never':2 'one':6,11 'peopl':46 'plenti':15 'said':3 'time':17 'use':30 'wheels/greater':24 'winter':20 'without':10 'work':36,49 'would':27"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697049099 {#2137
          date: 2023-10-11 20:31:39.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41801
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2098}
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2130}
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2108
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2063 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2111 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2098}
        +body: """
          Not to argue semantics, but moving people from cars to public transit keeps the same people on the roads, but fewer vehicles. While i get your line of reasoning, accuracy counts.\n
          \n
          If you’re willing to give up what you own to move to denser populated areas that meet your needs, great! I’m all for it. That’s YOUR choice.\n
          \n
          On the flip side, who decides who is allowed to operate a personal vehicle? To me, that seems like the opposite of a choice.\n
          \n
          But once again, the conversation was about EVs. You want dense vertical growth urbanism, be my guest, but I’m really not interested.
          """
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          "@Custoslibera@lemmy.world"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@SasquatchBanana@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2101 …}
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        +"title": 41874
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    ]
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      date: 2023-10-11 00:15:50.0 +02:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2133 …}
  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2098}
  +body: """
    The discussion was about EV’s, you missed the point. But ill bite.\n
    \n
    1/1a. My relatively short daily commute of 20 minutes turns into 1:10. My time is more valuable than money, so no. 2. “Before the SUV” people didn’t have to commute much further than down the street for work, so no. 3. Cool. You first.
    """
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    date: 2023-10-11 17:31:27.0 +02:00
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    "@Custoslibera@lemmy.world"
    "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
    "@SasquatchBanana@lemmy.world"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2129 …}
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  }
  +"title": 41556
}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2108
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    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2784 …}
    +slug: "Buying-a-new-car-is-not-better-than-keeping-an"
    +title: "Buying a new car is not better than keeping an old one"
    +url: "https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/cb418898-8868-4eff-b57b-471ca95d4020.jpeg"
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    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2793 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2795 …}
    +children: [
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2073
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2063 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2068 …}
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          +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2063 …2}
          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
          +image: null
          +parent: null
          +root: null
          +body: """
            Just some points that I have not seen discussed-\n
            \n
            1. Time to refuel / practical vehicle range 1a. The cost involved in having charging installed on your property\n
            2. Weather. Snow. Effect of cold on batteries. I know everyone hates those evil SUV’s, bit when there’s 14" of snow on the ground your tesla/volt/insert your favorite EV ain’t gonna cut it\n
            3. To the “just put in mass transit” crowd, do you feel that eminent domain is justified to take property from someone to fulfill this need?\n
            \n
            Honestly not trying to troll, these are real questions that should be answered\n
            \n
            And for the record, my vehicle is a compact sedan, getting on average 34-37mpg, so I’m not in that dick-size contest over who’s truck has the bigger lift kit
            """
          +lang: "en"
          +isAdult: false
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            date: 2023-10-11 21:33:00.0 +02:00
          }
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            "@Custoslibera@lemmy.world"
          ]
          +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2080 …}
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          -id: 41520
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          +"title": 41520
        }
        +body: "I never said you need one. I make do without one, however there are plenty of times during our winters here the larger wheels/greater ground clearance would be extremely useful. Just because it doesn’t work for you or me doesn’t mean there are people it does work for."
        +lang: "en"
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@mriguy@lemmy.world"
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        -id: 41801
        -bodyTs: "'clearanc':26 'doesn':34,41 'extrem':29 'ground':25 'howev':12 'larger':23 'make':8 'mean':43 'need':5 'never':2 'one':6,11 'peopl':46 'plenti':15 'said':3 'time':17 'use':30 'wheels/greater':24 'winter':20 'without':10 'work':36,49 'would':27"
        +ranking: 0
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        }
        +"title": 41801
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2098}
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2130
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2133 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2098}
        +body: """
          The discussion was about EV’s, you missed the point. But ill bite.\n
          \n
          1/1a. My relatively short daily commute of 20 minutes turns into 1:10. My time is more valuable than money, so no. 2. “Before the SUV” people didn’t have to commute much further than down the street for work, so no. 3. Cool. You first.
          """
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          "@Custoslibera@lemmy.world"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@SasquatchBanana@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2129 …}
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        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2350 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2348 …}
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        -id: 41556
        -bodyTs: "'1':25 '1/1a':14 '10':26 '2':36 '20':21 '3':56 'bite':13 'commut':19,45 'cool':57 'daili':18 'didn':41 'discuss':2 'ev':5 'first':59 'ill':12 'minut':22 'miss':8 'money':33 'much':46 'peopl':40 'point':10 'relat':16 'short':17 'street':51 'suv':39 'time':28 'turn':23 'valuabl':31 'work':53"
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          date: 2023-10-11 17:31:27.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 41556
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2108}
    ]
    -id: 4161
    -titleTs: "'better':7 'buy':1 'car':4 'keep':9 'new':3 'old':11 'one':12"
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      date: 2023-10-11 00:15:50.0 +02:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2111 …}
  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2098}
  +body: """
    Not to argue semantics, but moving people from cars to public transit keeps the same people on the roads, but fewer vehicles. While i get your line of reasoning, accuracy counts.\n
    \n
    If you’re willing to give up what you own to move to denser populated areas that meet your needs, great! I’m all for it. That’s YOUR choice.\n
    \n
    On the flip side, who decides who is allowed to operate a personal vehicle? To me, that seems like the opposite of a choice.\n
    \n
    But once again, the conversation was about EVs. You want dense vertical growth urbanism, be my guest, but I’m really not interested.
    """
  +lang: "en"
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    "@Custoslibera@lemmy.world"
    "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
    "@SasquatchBanana@lemmy.world"
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  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2101 …}
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  -id: 41874
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  +ranking: 0
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    date: 2023-10-11 21:32:57.0 +02:00
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  +"title": 41874
}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2108
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    +slug: "Buying-a-new-car-is-not-better-than-keeping-an"
    +title: "Buying a new car is not better than keeping an old one"
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    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2795 …}
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2073
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        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2063 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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          +body: """
            Just some points that I have not seen discussed-\n
            \n
            1. Time to refuel / practical vehicle range 1a. The cost involved in having charging installed on your property\n
            2. Weather. Snow. Effect of cold on batteries. I know everyone hates those evil SUV’s, bit when there’s 14" of snow on the ground your tesla/volt/insert your favorite EV ain’t gonna cut it\n
            3. To the “just put in mass transit” crowd, do you feel that eminent domain is justified to take property from someone to fulfill this need?\n
            \n
            Honestly not trying to troll, these are real questions that should be answered\n
            \n
            And for the record, my vehicle is a compact sedan, getting on average 34-37mpg, so I’m not in that dick-size contest over who’s truck has the bigger lift kit
            """
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            "@Custoslibera@lemmy.world"
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          +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2080 …}
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          +"title": 41520
        }
        +body: "I never said you need one. I make do without one, however there are plenty of times during our winters here the larger wheels/greater ground clearance would be extremely useful. Just because it doesn’t work for you or me doesn’t mean there are people it does work for."
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@mriguy@lemmy.world"
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        -bodyTs: "'clearanc':26 'doesn':34,41 'extrem':29 'ground':25 'howev':12 'larger':23 'make':8 'mean':43 'need':5 'never':2 'one':6,11 'peopl':46 'plenti':15 'said':3 'time':17 'use':30 'wheels/greater':24 'winter':20 'without':10 'work':36,49 'would':27"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697049099 {#2137
          date: 2023-10-11 20:31:39.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41801
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2098}
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2130
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2098}
        +body: """
          The discussion was about EV’s, you missed the point. But ill bite.\n
          \n
          1/1a. My relatively short daily commute of 20 minutes turns into 1:10. My time is more valuable than money, so no. 2. “Before the SUV” people didn’t have to commute much further than down the street for work, so no. 3. Cool. You first.
          """
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@SasquatchBanana@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2129 …}
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      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2108}
    ]
    -id: 4161
    -titleTs: "'better':7 'buy':1 'car':4 'keep':9 'new':3 'old':11 'one':12"
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      date: 2023-10-11 00:15:50.0 +02:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
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  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2111 …}
  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2098}
  +body: """
    Not to argue semantics, but moving people from cars to public transit keeps the same people on the roads, but fewer vehicles. While i get your line of reasoning, accuracy counts.\n
    \n
    If you’re willing to give up what you own to move to denser populated areas that meet your needs, great! I’m all for it. That’s YOUR choice.\n
    \n
    On the flip side, who decides who is allowed to operate a personal vehicle? To me, that seems like the opposite of a choice.\n
    \n
    But once again, the conversation was about EVs. You want dense vertical growth urbanism, be my guest, but I’m really not interested.
    """
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    date: 2023-10-11 21:32:57.0 +02:00
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    "@Custoslibera@lemmy.world"
    "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
    "@SasquatchBanana@lemmy.world"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2101 …}
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  -id: 41874
  -bodyTs: "'accuraci':30 'allow':70 'area':47 'argu':3 'car':9 'choic':61,85 'convers':90 'count':31 'decid':67 'dens':96 'denser':45 'ev':93 'fewer':21 'flip':64 'get':25 'give':37 'great':52 'growth':98 'guest':102 'interest':108 'keep':13 'like':80 'line':27 'm':54,105 'meet':49 'move':6,43 'need':51 'oper':72 'opposit':82 'peopl':7,16 'person':74 'popul':46 'public':11 're':34 'realli':106 'reason':29 'road':19 'seem':79 'semant':4 'side':65 'transit':12 'urban':99 'vehicl':22,75 'vertic':97 'want':95 'will':35"
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  +"title": 41874
}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2108
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    +slug: "Buying-a-new-car-is-not-better-than-keeping-an"
    +title: "Buying a new car is not better than keeping an old one"
    +url: "https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/cb418898-8868-4eff-b57b-471ca95d4020.jpeg"
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    +children: [
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2073
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          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
          +image: null
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          +body: """
            Just some points that I have not seen discussed-\n
            \n
            1. Time to refuel / practical vehicle range 1a. The cost involved in having charging installed on your property\n
            2. Weather. Snow. Effect of cold on batteries. I know everyone hates those evil SUV’s, bit when there’s 14" of snow on the ground your tesla/volt/insert your favorite EV ain’t gonna cut it\n
            3. To the “just put in mass transit” crowd, do you feel that eminent domain is justified to take property from someone to fulfill this need?\n
            \n
            Honestly not trying to troll, these are real questions that should be answered\n
            \n
            And for the record, my vehicle is a compact sedan, getting on average 34-37mpg, so I’m not in that dick-size contest over who’s truck has the bigger lift kit
            """
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            "@Custoslibera@lemmy.world"
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        +body: "I never said you need one. I make do without one, however there are plenty of times during our winters here the larger wheels/greater ground clearance would be extremely useful. Just because it doesn’t work for you or me doesn’t mean there are people it does work for."
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        -id: 41801
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2098}
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        +body: """
          The discussion was about EV’s, you missed the point. But ill bite.\n
          \n
          1/1a. My relatively short daily commute of 20 minutes turns into 1:10. My time is more valuable than money, so no. 2. “Before the SUV” people didn’t have to commute much further than down the street for work, so no. 3. Cool. You first.
          """
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
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     …2
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  +body: """
    Not to argue semantics, but moving people from cars to public transit keeps the same people on the roads, but fewer vehicles. While i get your line of reasoning, accuracy counts.\n
    \n
    If you’re willing to give up what you own to move to denser populated areas that meet your needs, great! I’m all for it. That’s YOUR choice.\n
    \n
    On the flip side, who decides who is allowed to operate a personal vehicle? To me, that seems like the opposite of a choice.\n
    \n
    But once again, the conversation was about EVs. You want dense vertical growth urbanism, be my guest, but I’m really not interested.
    """
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    "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
    "@SasquatchBanana@lemmy.world"
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  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2101 …}
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  +ranking: 0
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    date: 2023-10-11 21:32:57.0 +02:00
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  +"title": 41874
}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2738 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
  +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2752 …}
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2751 …}
  +slug: "History"
  +title: "History"
  +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/be2234f5-922c-44d7-a193-c11380bdfa00.jpeg"
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    date: 2023-10-12 22:21:54.0 +02:00
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  +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2775 …}
  +children: [
    13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2196
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2199 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
      +body: "Explain. How is it a false equivalent? Romans controlled the city / region for over a thousand years and were later conqured, and their land stolen, to use the vernacular of this thread."
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        "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
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      -bodyTs: "'citi':11 'conqur':21 'control':9 'equival':7 'explain':1 'fals':6 'land':24 'later':20 'region':12 'roman':8 'stolen':25 'thousand':16 'thread':32 'use':27 'vernacular':29 'year':17"
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        date: 2023-10-12 15:48:16.0 +02:00
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    14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2324
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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      +body: "So by that logic, the Turks should give Constantinople back to the Romans?"
      +lang: "en"
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        "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
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        date: 2023-10-11 18:33:20.0 +02:00
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    11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2307
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
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      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: """
          For fucks sake… 1st off, whether or not this qualifies as a “meme”, it doesn’t fit the accepted norm of what most people expect to see when they click on “memes”\n
          \n
          Secondly, and this may sting a little, but peace as we know it is a relatively new thing in world history. I’ve seen a multitude of other comments here proclaiming all those other genocides were okay because they were thousands of years ago. It’s that “in my lifetime” mentality that just fucking grinds my gears. Through thousands of years of history, one genocide is cherry picked and held up as the worst ever, and the citizens who"benefitted" from it are supposed to pick up the tab? My ancestors weren’t Spanish or English, and my family has been here for about 130 years having come from Germany in 1890. How much of the tab am I supposed to pick up?\n
          \n
          Fact of the matter is, the only constant in human history is war. We’re in a (relatively) peaceful era now, and that’s taking into account Ukraine/Russia, Israel/Palestine, and probably another 20 or 30 wars I’m not up to speed on because I’m American and our media doesn’t seem to actually inform us on world events from countries we don’t buy shit from.
          """
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
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          date: 2023-10-10 19:45:38.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 40337
      }
      +body: """
        Clever.\n
        \n
        I’m going through the sourced materials in the American Holocaust book, (great title, by the way! not divisive at all!), and considering the sources, it’s pretty obvious Stannard has an agenda, he’s a “cultural materialist”, an offshoot of cultural Marxism. But you knew that, you just didn’t think I’d look 😉\n
        \n
        Anyway, with as far as I’ve gotten, I can surmise the sources, the majority of them at least, point to textbooks published by “Berkley; University of California press”. Seems a lot of anti-American sentiment comes out of Berkley. Just to appease my curiosity, I’m going to look deeper into this fellow, who, funny enough, cites his own works as well. That’s pretty douchey
        """
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        "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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    12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2349
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2042 …}
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
      +body: """
        Ah, the internet…\n
        \n
        The phrase “That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), **but it’s still very different**” effectively translates to “Even though this happened, this is worse”.\n
        \n
        If you bothered to look at that list, you’ll note the mention of the California Genocide of 1846. Reported casualties between 9,492 and 16,094, with other estimates as high as 120,000. Absolutely fucking horrible and a black mark on American history indeed. However, there are 31 other genocides on that list that are higher in number, with three of those even happening prior to California-\n
        \n
        Dzungam 1755, 480,000-600,000 Taino 1492, 68,000-968,000 Albigensian 1209, 200,000-1,000,000\n
        \n
        I guess it depends on how you define “genocide”, but since Wikipedia is generally using the accepted definition, I feel pretty safe in going with what they say.\n
        \n
        And I did lay out proof, you’re just too caught up in whatever ideology to see it. Feel free to rebut, down vote, cry or whatever makes you feel better, but my point was the world is a horrible place, and terrible things happen to all kinds of groups of people. The “meme” that started all this IS a cherry picked reference to people who were wronged (I’m not disputing they were wronged, but so were… insert any other group of people here). Throughout history, most civilizations are founded on the conquering of another. As horrible as that is, it’s a fact. And after the fact, many of the remaining conqured are treated horribly. Also a fact.\n
        \n
        Lay out some real numbers, cite an authoritative source (sources) and then we can talk. Until then, I hope the best for you and really wish we could get past this bickering bullshit. Life is too short, and trying to pin the sins of one’s father on the current generation isn’t solving shit. Work toward bettering peoples lives without having to exact revenge from people who didn’t have fuck all to do with it.
        """
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    9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2113 …}
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
      +body: "And it’s written by a person, with an agenda and bias just like everyone else. Have a tough time taking anything seriously from someone affiliated with Ward Churchill."
      +lang: "en"
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        "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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        date: 2023-10-11 21:46:08.0 +02:00
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      +"title": 41891
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    10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
      +body: "Citing one book by someone with a clear agenda isn’t a good look either. You picked the fight, feel free to drop it at your leisure."
      +lang: "en"
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        "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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        date: 2023-10-11 22:01:33.0 +02:00
      }
      +"title": 41925
    }
    7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024
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      +body: "I agree with your points, and yes it’s a better perspective, however, that’s not the world we’re living in. There are some who are hell bent on wiping out continents of people due to any number of reasons ranging from beliefs to the exploitation of natural resources merely for financial gain. I really wish we did live in a world where the word “nuclear” invoked thoughts of clean(er), abundant and cheaper energy vs it invoking dread at the prospect of total annihilation."
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      -id: 41306
      -bodyTs: "'abund':73 'agre':2 'annihil':86 'belief':44 'bent':29 'better':11 'cheaper':75 'clean':71 'contin':33 'dread':80 'due':36 'energi':76 'er':72 'exploit':47 'financi':53 'gain':54 'hell':28 'howev':13 'invok':68,79 'live':21,60 'mere':51 'natur':49 'nuclear':67 'number':39 'peopl':35 'perspect':12 'point':5 'prospect':83 'rang':42 're':20 'realli':56 'reason':41 'resourc':50 'thought':69 'total':85 'vs':77 'wipe':31 'wish':57 'word':66 'world':18,63 'yes':7"
      +ranking: 0
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        date: 2023-10-11 13:43:35.0 +02:00
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      +"title": 41306
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    1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2254
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2250 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
      +body: """
        Oh wait, my fault. I was responding to your comment “**We are still here**”\n
        \n
        Wasn’t sure which part of my anaolgy you weren’t getting. Now we can peacefully argue about that instead.\n
        \n
        **EDITED FOR TYPO
        """
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        date: 2023-10-12 20:52:28.0 +02:00
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        "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
        "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
        "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
      ]
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      -id: 43749
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        date: 2023-10-12 21:23:04.0 +02:00
      }
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697136748 {#2244
        date: 2023-10-12 20:52:28.0 +02:00
      }
      +"title": 43749
    }
    5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2189
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2299 …}
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
      +body: """
        You don’t have to apologize to me. If he’s someone who would collaborate with Ward Churchill, he’s got a clear agenda. My source for that was looking him up on Wikipedia, as I had no clue who he was. I’m not going to do the effort of sending you a direct link to the article, so feel free to do it yourself. And grant us all the fact that someone who writes a book has an implied agenda to sell the book.\n
        \n
        And every time you start a post with “Source?”, it’s a bad look.
        """
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        date: 2023-10-12 00:17:28.0 +02:00
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        "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
        "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
      ]
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      -id: 42135
      -bodyTs: "'agenda':24,82 'apolog':6 'articl':59 'bad':99 'book':78,86 'churchil':18 'clear':23 'clue':39 'collabor':15 'direct':55 'effort':50 'everi':88 'fact':72 'feel':61 'free':62 'go':46 'got':21 'grant':68 'impli':81 'link':56 'look':30,100 'm':44 'post':93 'sell':84 'send':52 'someon':12,74 'sourc':26,95 'start':91 'time':89 'us':69 'ward':17 'wikipedia':34 'would':14 'write':76"
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        date: 2023-10-12 00:17:28.0 +02:00
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      +"title": 42135
    }
    6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1402 …}
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
      +body: "While I mostly agree, I never said constant war, but where I will disagree in a sense is, the prospect of total annihilation would have been a factor millennia ago had the technology been there. Pick your era, the Romans, the various Chinese dynasties, the English, etc… if they had the means, they would have likely used it, having zero regard for the impact it would have later, mostly due to a poor understanding of the technology. I do believe, at least between “the big three”, meaning the US, Russia and China, nuclear war is an extremely potent deterrent to all out war. It’s the “kids who want to be in the club” that worry me, everyone from NK to Israel. It sucks, but the atomic cat is out of the bag in a world we’re all forced to live in, and the polarization of politics and other bullshit only work to drive that wedge deeper and push us closer to… bad shit."
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        date: 2023-10-10 22:52:49.0 +02:00
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        "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
        "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        "@ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works"
      ]
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        date: 2023-10-10 22:52:49.0 +02:00
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      +"title": 40641
    }
    4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144 …}
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
      +body: """
        As I’m too stupid and it’s to early for me to do these inline…\n
        \n
        Your 1st point, here’s one, had to scroll about 1/8 down the page for. Granted it doesn’t explicitly say it was “okay”, the point stands:\n
        \n
        > “China/Russia/Europe are largely inhabited by people whose ancestry traces back 1000s of years to the same region. That’s very different from North America, where most natives where killed (either through disease or “policy”).\n
        \n
        > That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), but it’s still very different.”\n
        \n
        As you also wanted to be pointed to a source for genocides on the same or larger scale throughout history, allow me to search Wikipedia for you:\n
        \n
        [en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides)\n
        \n
        As to point 3, who exactly determines who is responsible and who will benefit from this paln to raise up America’s indigenous population to their proper station? Are 1st generation immigrants from Ghana going to be required to pay up? How about Natives who’s ancestry dates back to a tribe that exterminated another tribe? Surely that should also qualify as genocide?\n
        \n
        And as to point 4, we, in the west, as I did point out I was American, are in a (**relatively**) peaceful time, which implies that throughout history it has not been, but I guess I need to spell it out for some people.\n
        \n
        At the end of the day, you’re not looking to be enlightened or to learn anything, your post was directed to completely discount my points, or to “*troll*” I will admit I was getting heated reading some of the off the wall bullshit I was seeing, but superlatives aside, I stand by everything I’ve posted. I apologize if you TRULY didn’t know about other genocides, or if your worldview has jaded you to the point where you don’t initially see posts that clearly illustrate what I said, at least in the abstract, and you took the time to go back and reread them and allow it to sink in.\n
        \n
        Feel free to pick apart this post, too. Nothing is more entertaining in a meme thread than for 2 idiots, myself included, to argue about genocide.🙂
        """
      +lang: "en"
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        date: 2023-10-11 14:10:25.0 +02:00
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        "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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        date: 2023-10-11 14:10:25.0 +02:00
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      +"title": 41323
    }
    3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2204
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2200 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
      +body: "Oversimplifing an empire being overthrown. Seems legit."
      +lang: "en"
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        date: 2023-10-12 18:39:26.0 +02:00
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        "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
        "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
        "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
      ]
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      -id: 43459
      -bodyTs: "'empir':3 'legit':7 'oversimplif':1 'overthrown':5 'seem':6"
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        date: 2023-10-12 18:39:26.0 +02:00
      }
      +"title": 43459
    }
    2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2281
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
      +body: "It’ll be a while before I can read further but I do intend to read all of it. In my biased opinion so far, i reads like a propaganda piece, the words seleceted in some of the passages are used to elicit a response, but maybe I’ll see differently as I continue. I do have a question, when you say “genocide”, are you also including open conflicts? It’s my understanding of the word that it would not, but I want to make sure, especially when numbers are involved, that we’re using the same metrics."
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        date: 2023-10-12 15:46:08.0 +02:00
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        "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
        "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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      -id: 43093
      -bodyTs: "'also':66 'bias':22 'conflict':69 'continu':54 'differ':51 'elicit':43 'especi':87 'far':25 'genocid':63 'includ':67 'intend':14 'involv':91 'like':28 'll':2,49 'make':85 'mayb':47 'metric':98 'number':89 'open':68 'opinion':23 'passag':39 'piec':31 'propaganda':30 'question':59 're':94 'read':9,16,27 'respons':45 'say':62 'see':50 'selecet':34 'sure':86 'understand':73 'use':41,95 'want':83 'word':33,76 'would':79"
      +ranking: 0
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      +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/comment/4352097"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697118368 {#2295
        date: 2023-10-12 15:46:08.0 +02:00
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      +"title": 43093
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    15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2263
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
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      +body: """
        People. On a land mass. Wiped out. People. On a land mass. Wiped out.\n
        \n
        Yeah, I guess I see your point.
        """
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        date: 2023-10-12 19:25:03.0 +02:00
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        "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
        "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
        "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
      ]
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      -id: 43560
      -bodyTs: "'guess':17 'land':4,11 'mass':5,12 'peopl':1,8 'point':21 'see':19 'wipe':6,13 'yeah':15"
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        date: 2023-10-12 19:25:03.0 +02:00
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      +"title": 43560
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    8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
    16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2034
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2039 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
      +body: "You too buddy! Would enjoy having rational conversations, even note elsewhere in this thread that I’m taking the time to read American Holocaust, as I told myself “why should I ask someone to do something I’m not willing to do myself?” Granted, being close to 50 years old, it likely won’t change my mind, but I reason that if I do read this book, maybe I can better understand other’s worldview, and maybe, just maybe we can have civil conversations instead of the stupid fucking bickering that’s been going on in a… wait for it… meme thread!"
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        date: 2023-10-12 22:21:54.0 +02:00
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        "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
        "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
        "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
      ]
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      -id: 43916
      -bodyTs: "'50':48 'american':23 'ask':32 'better':71 'bicker':90 'book':67 'buddi':3 'chang':55 'civil':83 'close':46 'convers':8,84 'elsewher':11 'enjoy':5 'even':9 'fuck':89 'go':94 'grant':44 'holocaust':24 'instead':85 'like':52 'm':17,38 'mayb':68,77,79 'meme':101 'mind':57 'note':10 'old':50 'ration':7 'read':22,65 'reason':60 'someon':33 'someth':36 'stupid':88 'take':18 'thread':14,102 'time':20 'told':27 'understand':72 'wait':98 'will':40 'won':53 'worldview':75 'would':4 'year':49"
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        date: 2023-10-12 22:21:54.0 +02:00
      }
      +"title": 43916
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    0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2045 …}
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
      +body: "Oh, I stand corrected. A link to a Google doc. Should probably submit that to the Wikipedia article I linked as clearly thier information is flawed. You win an internet today."
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        "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
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    date: 2023-10-09 13:23:41.0 +02:00
  }
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   …2
}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2738 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
  +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2752 …}
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2751 …}
  +slug: "History"
  +title: "History"
  +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/be2234f5-922c-44d7-a193-c11380bdfa00.jpeg"
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    date: 2023-10-12 22:21:54.0 +02:00
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  +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2775 …}
  +children: [
    13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2196
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2199 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
      +body: "Explain. How is it a false equivalent? Romans controlled the city / region for over a thousand years and were later conqured, and their land stolen, to use the vernacular of this thread."
      +lang: "en"
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        "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
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      -bodyTs: "'citi':11 'conqur':21 'control':9 'equival':7 'explain':1 'fals':6 'land':24 'later':20 'region':12 'roman':8 'stolen':25 'thousand':16 'thread':32 'use':27 'vernacular':29 'year':17"
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        date: 2023-10-12 15:48:16.0 +02:00
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      +"title": 43097
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    14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2324
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2300 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
      +body: "So by that logic, the Turks should give Constantinople back to the Romans?"
      +lang: "en"
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        "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
        "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
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        date: 2023-10-11 18:33:20.0 +02:00
      }
      +"title": 41637
    }
    11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2307
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2306 …}
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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        +body: """
          For fucks sake… 1st off, whether or not this qualifies as a “meme”, it doesn’t fit the accepted norm of what most people expect to see when they click on “memes”\n
          \n
          Secondly, and this may sting a little, but peace as we know it is a relatively new thing in world history. I’ve seen a multitude of other comments here proclaiming all those other genocides were okay because they were thousands of years ago. It’s that “in my lifetime” mentality that just fucking grinds my gears. Through thousands of years of history, one genocide is cherry picked and held up as the worst ever, and the citizens who"benefitted" from it are supposed to pick up the tab? My ancestors weren’t Spanish or English, and my family has been here for about 130 years having come from Germany in 1890. How much of the tab am I supposed to pick up?\n
          \n
          Fact of the matter is, the only constant in human history is war. We’re in a (relatively) peaceful era now, and that’s taking into account Ukraine/Russia, Israel/Palestine, and probably another 20 or 30 wars I’m not up to speed on because I’m American and our media doesn’t seem to actually inform us on world events from countries we don’t buy shit from.
          """
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        +ranking: 0
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1696959938 {#1926
          date: 2023-10-10 19:45:38.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 40337
      }
      +body: """
        Clever.\n
        \n
        I’m going through the sourced materials in the American Holocaust book, (great title, by the way! not divisive at all!), and considering the sources, it’s pretty obvious Stannard has an agenda, he’s a “cultural materialist”, an offshoot of cultural Marxism. But you knew that, you just didn’t think I’d look 😉\n
        \n
        Anyway, with as far as I’ve gotten, I can surmise the sources, the majority of them at least, point to textbooks published by “Berkley; University of California press”. Seems a lot of anti-American sentiment comes out of Berkley. Just to appease my curiosity, I’m going to look deeper into this fellow, who, funny enough, cites his own works as well. That’s pretty douchey
        """
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        "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2308 …}
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      -id: 42180
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    12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2349
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2042 …}
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
      +body: """
        Ah, the internet…\n
        \n
        The phrase “That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), **but it’s still very different**” effectively translates to “Even though this happened, this is worse”.\n
        \n
        If you bothered to look at that list, you’ll note the mention of the California Genocide of 1846. Reported casualties between 9,492 and 16,094, with other estimates as high as 120,000. Absolutely fucking horrible and a black mark on American history indeed. However, there are 31 other genocides on that list that are higher in number, with three of those even happening prior to California-\n
        \n
        Dzungam 1755, 480,000-600,000 Taino 1492, 68,000-968,000 Albigensian 1209, 200,000-1,000,000\n
        \n
        I guess it depends on how you define “genocide”, but since Wikipedia is generally using the accepted definition, I feel pretty safe in going with what they say.\n
        \n
        And I did lay out proof, you’re just too caught up in whatever ideology to see it. Feel free to rebut, down vote, cry or whatever makes you feel better, but my point was the world is a horrible place, and terrible things happen to all kinds of groups of people. The “meme” that started all this IS a cherry picked reference to people who were wronged (I’m not disputing they were wronged, but so were… insert any other group of people here). Throughout history, most civilizations are founded on the conquering of another. As horrible as that is, it’s a fact. And after the fact, many of the remaining conqured are treated horribly. Also a fact.\n
        \n
        Lay out some real numbers, cite an authoritative source (sources) and then we can talk. Until then, I hope the best for you and really wish we could get past this bickering bullshit. Life is too short, and trying to pin the sins of one’s father on the current generation isn’t solving shit. Work toward bettering peoples lives without having to exact revenge from people who didn’t have fuck all to do with it.
        """
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    9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2113 …}
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
      +body: "And it’s written by a person, with an agenda and bias just like everyone else. Have a tough time taking anything seriously from someone affiliated with Ward Churchill."
      +lang: "en"
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        "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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        date: 2023-10-11 21:46:08.0 +02:00
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      +"title": 41891
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    10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2224 …}
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
      +body: "Citing one book by someone with a clear agenda isn’t a good look either. You picked the fight, feel free to drop it at your leisure."
      +lang: "en"
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        "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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        date: 2023-10-11 22:01:33.0 +02:00
      }
      +"title": 41925
    }
    7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
      +body: "I agree with your points, and yes it’s a better perspective, however, that’s not the world we’re living in. There are some who are hell bent on wiping out continents of people due to any number of reasons ranging from beliefs to the exploitation of natural resources merely for financial gain. I really wish we did live in a world where the word “nuclear” invoked thoughts of clean(er), abundant and cheaper energy vs it invoking dread at the prospect of total annihilation."
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        "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
        "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        "@ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works"
      ]
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      -id: 41306
      -bodyTs: "'abund':73 'agre':2 'annihil':86 'belief':44 'bent':29 'better':11 'cheaper':75 'clean':71 'contin':33 'dread':80 'due':36 'energi':76 'er':72 'exploit':47 'financi':53 'gain':54 'hell':28 'howev':13 'invok':68,79 'live':21,60 'mere':51 'natur':49 'nuclear':67 'number':39 'peopl':35 'perspect':12 'point':5 'prospect':83 'rang':42 're':20 'realli':56 'reason':41 'resourc':50 'thought':69 'total':85 'vs':77 'wipe':31 'wish':57 'word':66 'world':18,63 'yes':7"
      +ranking: 0
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        date: 2023-10-11 13:43:35.0 +02:00
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      +"title": 41306
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    1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2254
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2250 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
      +body: """
        Oh wait, my fault. I was responding to your comment “**We are still here**”\n
        \n
        Wasn’t sure which part of my anaolgy you weren’t getting. Now we can peacefully argue about that instead.\n
        \n
        **EDITED FOR TYPO
        """
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        date: 2023-10-12 20:52:28.0 +02:00
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        "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
        "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
        "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
      ]
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      -id: 43749
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        date: 2023-10-12 21:23:04.0 +02:00
      }
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697136748 {#2244
        date: 2023-10-12 20:52:28.0 +02:00
      }
      +"title": 43749
    }
    5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2189
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
      +body: """
        You don’t have to apologize to me. If he’s someone who would collaborate with Ward Churchill, he’s got a clear agenda. My source for that was looking him up on Wikipedia, as I had no clue who he was. I’m not going to do the effort of sending you a direct link to the article, so feel free to do it yourself. And grant us all the fact that someone who writes a book has an implied agenda to sell the book.\n
        \n
        And every time you start a post with “Source?”, it’s a bad look.
        """
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        date: 2023-10-12 00:17:28.0 +02:00
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        "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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        date: 2023-10-12 00:17:28.0 +02:00
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    }
    6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
      +body: "While I mostly agree, I never said constant war, but where I will disagree in a sense is, the prospect of total annihilation would have been a factor millennia ago had the technology been there. Pick your era, the Romans, the various Chinese dynasties, the English, etc… if they had the means, they would have likely used it, having zero regard for the impact it would have later, mostly due to a poor understanding of the technology. I do believe, at least between “the big three”, meaning the US, Russia and China, nuclear war is an extremely potent deterrent to all out war. It’s the “kids who want to be in the club” that worry me, everyone from NK to Israel. It sucks, but the atomic cat is out of the bag in a world we’re all forced to live in, and the polarization of politics and other bullshit only work to drive that wedge deeper and push us closer to… bad shit."
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        "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        "@ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works"
      ]
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        date: 2023-10-10 22:52:49.0 +02:00
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    4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
      +body: """
        As I’m too stupid and it’s to early for me to do these inline…\n
        \n
        Your 1st point, here’s one, had to scroll about 1/8 down the page for. Granted it doesn’t explicitly say it was “okay”, the point stands:\n
        \n
        > “China/Russia/Europe are largely inhabited by people whose ancestry traces back 1000s of years to the same region. That’s very different from North America, where most natives where killed (either through disease or “policy”).\n
        \n
        > That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), but it’s still very different.”\n
        \n
        As you also wanted to be pointed to a source for genocides on the same or larger scale throughout history, allow me to search Wikipedia for you:\n
        \n
        [en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides)\n
        \n
        As to point 3, who exactly determines who is responsible and who will benefit from this paln to raise up America’s indigenous population to their proper station? Are 1st generation immigrants from Ghana going to be required to pay up? How about Natives who’s ancestry dates back to a tribe that exterminated another tribe? Surely that should also qualify as genocide?\n
        \n
        And as to point 4, we, in the west, as I did point out I was American, are in a (**relatively**) peaceful time, which implies that throughout history it has not been, but I guess I need to spell it out for some people.\n
        \n
        At the end of the day, you’re not looking to be enlightened or to learn anything, your post was directed to completely discount my points, or to “*troll*” I will admit I was getting heated reading some of the off the wall bullshit I was seeing, but superlatives aside, I stand by everything I’ve posted. I apologize if you TRULY didn’t know about other genocides, or if your worldview has jaded you to the point where you don’t initially see posts that clearly illustrate what I said, at least in the abstract, and you took the time to go back and reread them and allow it to sink in.\n
        \n
        Feel free to pick apart this post, too. Nothing is more entertaining in a meme thread than for 2 idiots, myself included, to argue about genocide.🙂
        """
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        date: 2023-10-11 14:10:25.0 +02:00
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    3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2204
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2200 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
      +body: "Oversimplifing an empire being overthrown. Seems legit."
      +lang: "en"
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        date: 2023-10-12 18:39:26.0 +02:00
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        "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
        "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
      ]
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      -bodyTs: "'empir':3 'legit':7 'oversimplif':1 'overthrown':5 'seem':6"
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        date: 2023-10-12 18:39:26.0 +02:00
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      +"title": 43459
    }
    2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2281
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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      +body: "It’ll be a while before I can read further but I do intend to read all of it. In my biased opinion so far, i reads like a propaganda piece, the words seleceted in some of the passages are used to elicit a response, but maybe I’ll see differently as I continue. I do have a question, when you say “genocide”, are you also including open conflicts? It’s my understanding of the word that it would not, but I want to make sure, especially when numbers are involved, that we’re using the same metrics."
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        date: 2023-10-12 15:46:08.0 +02:00
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        "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
        "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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      -id: 43093
      -bodyTs: "'also':66 'bias':22 'conflict':69 'continu':54 'differ':51 'elicit':43 'especi':87 'far':25 'genocid':63 'includ':67 'intend':14 'involv':91 'like':28 'll':2,49 'make':85 'mayb':47 'metric':98 'number':89 'open':68 'opinion':23 'passag':39 'piec':31 'propaganda':30 'question':59 're':94 'read':9,16,27 'respons':45 'say':62 'see':50 'selecet':34 'sure':86 'understand':73 'use':41,95 'want':83 'word':33,76 'would':79"
      +ranking: 0
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      +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/comment/4352097"
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      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697118368 {#2295
        date: 2023-10-12 15:46:08.0 +02:00
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      +"title": 43093
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    15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2263
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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      +body: """
        People. On a land mass. Wiped out. People. On a land mass. Wiped out.\n
        \n
        Yeah, I guess I see your point.
        """
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        date: 2023-10-12 19:25:03.0 +02:00
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        "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
        "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
        "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
      ]
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      -id: 43560
      -bodyTs: "'guess':17 'land':4,11 'mass':5,12 'peopl':1,8 'point':21 'see':19 'wipe':6,13 'yeah':15"
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        date: 2023-10-12 19:25:03.0 +02:00
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    8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
    16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2034
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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      +body: "You too buddy! Would enjoy having rational conversations, even note elsewhere in this thread that I’m taking the time to read American Holocaust, as I told myself “why should I ask someone to do something I’m not willing to do myself?” Granted, being close to 50 years old, it likely won’t change my mind, but I reason that if I do read this book, maybe I can better understand other’s worldview, and maybe, just maybe we can have civil conversations instead of the stupid fucking bickering that’s been going on in a… wait for it… meme thread!"
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        "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
        "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
      ]
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      +"title": 43916
    }
    0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2045 …}
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
      +body: "Oh, I stand corrected. A link to a Google doc. Should probably submit that to the Wikipedia article I linked as clearly thier information is flawed. You win an internet today."
      +lang: "en"
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        "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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  ]
  -id: 3914
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    date: 2023-10-09 13:23:41.0 +02:00
  }
  +__isInitialized__: true
   …2
}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2738 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
  +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2752 …}
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2751 …}
  +slug: "History"
  +title: "History"
  +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/be2234f5-922c-44d7-a193-c11380bdfa00.jpeg"
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    date: 2023-10-12 22:21:54.0 +02:00
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  +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2775 …}
  +children: [
    13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2196
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2199 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
      +body: "Explain. How is it a false equivalent? Romans controlled the city / region for over a thousand years and were later conqured, and their land stolen, to use the vernacular of this thread."
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        date: 2023-10-12 15:48:16.0 +02:00
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    14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2324
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2300 …}
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      +body: "So by that logic, the Turks should give Constantinople back to the Romans?"
      +lang: "en"
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        "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
        "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
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        date: 2023-10-11 18:33:20.0 +02:00
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      +"title": 41637
    }
    11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2307
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2306 …}
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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        +body: """
          For fucks sake… 1st off, whether or not this qualifies as a “meme”, it doesn’t fit the accepted norm of what most people expect to see when they click on “memes”\n
          \n
          Secondly, and this may sting a little, but peace as we know it is a relatively new thing in world history. I’ve seen a multitude of other comments here proclaiming all those other genocides were okay because they were thousands of years ago. It’s that “in my lifetime” mentality that just fucking grinds my gears. Through thousands of years of history, one genocide is cherry picked and held up as the worst ever, and the citizens who"benefitted" from it are supposed to pick up the tab? My ancestors weren’t Spanish or English, and my family has been here for about 130 years having come from Germany in 1890. How much of the tab am I supposed to pick up?\n
          \n
          Fact of the matter is, the only constant in human history is war. We’re in a (relatively) peaceful era now, and that’s taking into account Ukraine/Russia, Israel/Palestine, and probably another 20 or 30 wars I’m not up to speed on because I’m American and our media doesn’t seem to actually inform us on world events from countries we don’t buy shit from.
          """
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1907 …}
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        -id: 40337
        -bodyTs: "'130':137 '1890':144 '1st':4 '20':188 '30':190 'accept':19 'account':182 'actual':210 'ago':76 'american':202 'ancestor':123 'anoth':187 'benefit':112 'buy':221 'cherri':99 'citizen':110 'click':30 'come':140 'comment':61 'constant':163 'countri':217 'doesn':15,206 'english':128 'era':175 'event':215 'ever':107 'expect':25 'fact':156 'famili':131 'fit':17 'fuck':2,86 'gear':89 'genocid':67,97 'germani':142 'grind':87 'held':102 'histori':53,95,166 'human':165 'inform':211 'israel/palestine':184 'know':44 'lifetim':82 'littl':39 'm':193,201 'matter':159 'may':36 'media':205 'meme':13,32 'mental':83 'much':146 'multitud':58 'new':49 'norm':20 'okay':69 'one':96 'peac':41,174 'peopl':24 'pick':100,118,154 'probabl':186 'proclaim':63 'qualifi':10 're':170 'relat':48,173 'sake':3 'second':33 'see':27 'seem':208 'seen':56 'shit':222 'spanish':126 'speed':197 'sting':37 'suppos':116,152 'tab':121,149 'take':180 'thing':50 'thousand':73,91 'ukraine/russia':183 'us':212 've':55 'war':168,191 'weren':124 'whether':6 'world':52,214 'worst':106 'year':75,93,138"
        +ranking: 0
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1696959938 {#1926
          date: 2023-10-10 19:45:38.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 40337
      }
      +body: """
        Clever.\n
        \n
        I’m going through the sourced materials in the American Holocaust book, (great title, by the way! not divisive at all!), and considering the sources, it’s pretty obvious Stannard has an agenda, he’s a “cultural materialist”, an offshoot of cultural Marxism. But you knew that, you just didn’t think I’d look 😉\n
        \n
        Anyway, with as far as I’ve gotten, I can surmise the sources, the majority of them at least, point to textbooks published by “Berkley; University of California press”. Seems a lot of anti-American sentiment comes out of Berkley. Just to appease my curiosity, I’m going to look deeper into this fellow, who, funny enough, cites his own works as well. That’s pretty douchey
        """
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        "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2308 …}
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      -id: 42180
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      +ranking: 0
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      +"title": 42180
    }
    12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2349
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2042 …}
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
      +body: """
        Ah, the internet…\n
        \n
        The phrase “That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), **but it’s still very different**” effectively translates to “Even though this happened, this is worse”.\n
        \n
        If you bothered to look at that list, you’ll note the mention of the California Genocide of 1846. Reported casualties between 9,492 and 16,094, with other estimates as high as 120,000. Absolutely fucking horrible and a black mark on American history indeed. However, there are 31 other genocides on that list that are higher in number, with three of those even happening prior to California-\n
        \n
        Dzungam 1755, 480,000-600,000 Taino 1492, 68,000-968,000 Albigensian 1209, 200,000-1,000,000\n
        \n
        I guess it depends on how you define “genocide”, but since Wikipedia is generally using the accepted definition, I feel pretty safe in going with what they say.\n
        \n
        And I did lay out proof, you’re just too caught up in whatever ideology to see it. Feel free to rebut, down vote, cry or whatever makes you feel better, but my point was the world is a horrible place, and terrible things happen to all kinds of groups of people. The “meme” that started all this IS a cherry picked reference to people who were wronged (I’m not disputing they were wronged, but so were… insert any other group of people here). Throughout history, most civilizations are founded on the conquering of another. As horrible as that is, it’s a fact. And after the fact, many of the remaining conqured are treated horribly. Also a fact.\n
        \n
        Lay out some real numbers, cite an authoritative source (sources) and then we can talk. Until then, I hope the best for you and really wish we could get past this bickering bullshit. Life is too short, and trying to pin the sins of one’s father on the current generation isn’t solving shit. Work toward bettering peoples lives without having to exact revenge from people who didn’t have fuck all to do with it.
        """
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    9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2113 …}
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
      +body: "And it’s written by a person, with an agenda and bias just like everyone else. Have a tough time taking anything seriously from someone affiliated with Ward Churchill."
      +lang: "en"
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        "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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        date: 2023-10-11 21:46:08.0 +02:00
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      +"title": 41891
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    10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2224 …}
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
      +body: "Citing one book by someone with a clear agenda isn’t a good look either. You picked the fight, feel free to drop it at your leisure."
      +lang: "en"
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        "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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        date: 2023-10-11 22:01:33.0 +02:00
      }
      +"title": 41925
    }
    7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024
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      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2022 …}
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
      +body: "I agree with your points, and yes it’s a better perspective, however, that’s not the world we’re living in. There are some who are hell bent on wiping out continents of people due to any number of reasons ranging from beliefs to the exploitation of natural resources merely for financial gain. I really wish we did live in a world where the word “nuclear” invoked thoughts of clean(er), abundant and cheaper energy vs it invoking dread at the prospect of total annihilation."
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        date: 2023-10-11 13:43:35.0 +02:00
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        "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
        "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        "@ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works"
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      +ranking: 0
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        date: 2023-10-11 13:43:35.0 +02:00
      }
      +"title": 41306
    }
    1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2254
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
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      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2250 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
      +body: """
        Oh wait, my fault. I was responding to your comment “**We are still here**”\n
        \n
        Wasn’t sure which part of my anaolgy you weren’t getting. Now we can peacefully argue about that instead.\n
        \n
        **EDITED FOR TYPO
        """
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        date: 2023-10-12 20:52:28.0 +02:00
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        "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
        "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
        "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
      ]
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        date: 2023-10-12 21:23:04.0 +02:00
      }
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        date: 2023-10-12 20:52:28.0 +02:00
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      +"title": 43749
    }
    5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2189
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
      +body: """
        You don’t have to apologize to me. If he’s someone who would collaborate with Ward Churchill, he’s got a clear agenda. My source for that was looking him up on Wikipedia, as I had no clue who he was. I’m not going to do the effort of sending you a direct link to the article, so feel free to do it yourself. And grant us all the fact that someone who writes a book has an implied agenda to sell the book.\n
        \n
        And every time you start a post with “Source?”, it’s a bad look.
        """
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        date: 2023-10-12 00:17:28.0 +02:00
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        "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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        date: 2023-10-12 00:17:28.0 +02:00
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    }
    6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
      +body: "While I mostly agree, I never said constant war, but where I will disagree in a sense is, the prospect of total annihilation would have been a factor millennia ago had the technology been there. Pick your era, the Romans, the various Chinese dynasties, the English, etc… if they had the means, they would have likely used it, having zero regard for the impact it would have later, mostly due to a poor understanding of the technology. I do believe, at least between “the big three”, meaning the US, Russia and China, nuclear war is an extremely potent deterrent to all out war. It’s the “kids who want to be in the club” that worry me, everyone from NK to Israel. It sucks, but the atomic cat is out of the bag in a world we’re all forced to live in, and the polarization of politics and other bullshit only work to drive that wedge deeper and push us closer to… bad shit."
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        "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        "@ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works"
      ]
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        date: 2023-10-10 22:52:49.0 +02:00
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    4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144 …}
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
      +body: """
        As I’m too stupid and it’s to early for me to do these inline…\n
        \n
        Your 1st point, here’s one, had to scroll about 1/8 down the page for. Granted it doesn’t explicitly say it was “okay”, the point stands:\n
        \n
        > “China/Russia/Europe are largely inhabited by people whose ancestry traces back 1000s of years to the same region. That’s very different from North America, where most natives where killed (either through disease or “policy”).\n
        \n
        > That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), but it’s still very different.”\n
        \n
        As you also wanted to be pointed to a source for genocides on the same or larger scale throughout history, allow me to search Wikipedia for you:\n
        \n
        [en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides)\n
        \n
        As to point 3, who exactly determines who is responsible and who will benefit from this paln to raise up America’s indigenous population to their proper station? Are 1st generation immigrants from Ghana going to be required to pay up? How about Natives who’s ancestry dates back to a tribe that exterminated another tribe? Surely that should also qualify as genocide?\n
        \n
        And as to point 4, we, in the west, as I did point out I was American, are in a (**relatively**) peaceful time, which implies that throughout history it has not been, but I guess I need to spell it out for some people.\n
        \n
        At the end of the day, you’re not looking to be enlightened or to learn anything, your post was directed to completely discount my points, or to “*troll*” I will admit I was getting heated reading some of the off the wall bullshit I was seeing, but superlatives aside, I stand by everything I’ve posted. I apologize if you TRULY didn’t know about other genocides, or if your worldview has jaded you to the point where you don’t initially see posts that clearly illustrate what I said, at least in the abstract, and you took the time to go back and reread them and allow it to sink in.\n
        \n
        Feel free to pick apart this post, too. Nothing is more entertaining in a meme thread than for 2 idiots, myself included, to argue about genocide.🙂
        """
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        date: 2023-10-11 14:10:25.0 +02:00
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    3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2204
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2200 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
      +body: "Oversimplifing an empire being overthrown. Seems legit."
      +lang: "en"
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        date: 2023-10-12 18:39:26.0 +02:00
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        "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
        "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
      ]
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      -bodyTs: "'empir':3 'legit':7 'oversimplif':1 'overthrown':5 'seem':6"
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        date: 2023-10-12 18:39:26.0 +02:00
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      +"title": 43459
    }
    2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2281
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
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      +body: "It’ll be a while before I can read further but I do intend to read all of it. In my biased opinion so far, i reads like a propaganda piece, the words seleceted in some of the passages are used to elicit a response, but maybe I’ll see differently as I continue. I do have a question, when you say “genocide”, are you also including open conflicts? It’s my understanding of the word that it would not, but I want to make sure, especially when numbers are involved, that we’re using the same metrics."
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        date: 2023-10-12 15:46:08.0 +02:00
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        "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
        "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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      -bodyTs: "'also':66 'bias':22 'conflict':69 'continu':54 'differ':51 'elicit':43 'especi':87 'far':25 'genocid':63 'includ':67 'intend':14 'involv':91 'like':28 'll':2,49 'make':85 'mayb':47 'metric':98 'number':89 'open':68 'opinion':23 'passag':39 'piec':31 'propaganda':30 'question':59 're':94 'read':9,16,27 'respons':45 'say':62 'see':50 'selecet':34 'sure':86 'understand':73 'use':41,95 'want':83 'word':33,76 'would':79"
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      +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/comment/4352097"
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        date: 2023-10-12 15:46:08.0 +02:00
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      +"title": 43093
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    15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2263
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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      +body: """
        People. On a land mass. Wiped out. People. On a land mass. Wiped out.\n
        \n
        Yeah, I guess I see your point.
        """
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        date: 2023-10-12 19:25:03.0 +02:00
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        "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
        "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
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      -id: 43560
      -bodyTs: "'guess':17 'land':4,11 'mass':5,12 'peopl':1,8 'point':21 'see':19 'wipe':6,13 'yeah':15"
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        date: 2023-10-12 19:25:03.0 +02:00
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    8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
    16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2034
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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      +body: "You too buddy! Would enjoy having rational conversations, even note elsewhere in this thread that I’m taking the time to read American Holocaust, as I told myself “why should I ask someone to do something I’m not willing to do myself?” Granted, being close to 50 years old, it likely won’t change my mind, but I reason that if I do read this book, maybe I can better understand other’s worldview, and maybe, just maybe we can have civil conversations instead of the stupid fucking bickering that’s been going on in a… wait for it… meme thread!"
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        date: 2023-10-12 22:21:54.0 +02:00
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        "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
        "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
        "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
      ]
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    0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
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      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
      +body: "Oh, I stand corrected. A link to a Google doc. Should probably submit that to the Wikipedia article I linked as clearly thier information is flawed. You win an internet today."
      +lang: "en"
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   …2
}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2196
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2196}
      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2324
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        +body: "So by that logic, the Turks should give Constantinople back to the Romans?"
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      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2307
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            For fucks sake… 1st off, whether or not this qualifies as a “meme”, it doesn’t fit the accepted norm of what most people expect to see when they click on “memes”\n
            \n
            Secondly, and this may sting a little, but peace as we know it is a relatively new thing in world history. I’ve seen a multitude of other comments here proclaiming all those other genocides were okay because they were thousands of years ago. It’s that “in my lifetime” mentality that just fucking grinds my gears. Through thousands of years of history, one genocide is cherry picked and held up as the worst ever, and the citizens who"benefitted" from it are supposed to pick up the tab? My ancestors weren’t Spanish or English, and my family has been here for about 130 years having come from Germany in 1890. How much of the tab am I supposed to pick up?\n
            \n
            Fact of the matter is, the only constant in human history is war. We’re in a (relatively) peaceful era now, and that’s taking into account Ukraine/Russia, Israel/Palestine, and probably another 20 or 30 wars I’m not up to speed on because I’m American and our media doesn’t seem to actually inform us on world events from countries we don’t buy shit from.
            """
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        +body: """
          Clever.\n
          \n
          I’m going through the sourced materials in the American Holocaust book, (great title, by the way! not divisive at all!), and considering the sources, it’s pretty obvious Stannard has an agenda, he’s a “cultural materialist”, an offshoot of cultural Marxism. But you knew that, you just didn’t think I’d look 😉\n
          \n
          Anyway, with as far as I’ve gotten, I can surmise the sources, the majority of them at least, point to textbooks published by “Berkley; University of California press”. Seems a lot of anti-American sentiment comes out of Berkley. Just to appease my curiosity, I’m going to look deeper into this fellow, who, funny enough, cites his own works as well. That’s pretty douchey
          """
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2349
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: """
          Ah, the internet…\n
          \n
          The phrase “That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), **but it’s still very different**” effectively translates to “Even though this happened, this is worse”.\n
          \n
          If you bothered to look at that list, you’ll note the mention of the California Genocide of 1846. Reported casualties between 9,492 and 16,094, with other estimates as high as 120,000. Absolutely fucking horrible and a black mark on American history indeed. However, there are 31 other genocides on that list that are higher in number, with three of those even happening prior to California-\n
          \n
          Dzungam 1755, 480,000-600,000 Taino 1492, 68,000-968,000 Albigensian 1209, 200,000-1,000,000\n
          \n
          I guess it depends on how you define “genocide”, but since Wikipedia is generally using the accepted definition, I feel pretty safe in going with what they say.\n
          \n
          And I did lay out proof, you’re just too caught up in whatever ideology to see it. Feel free to rebut, down vote, cry or whatever makes you feel better, but my point was the world is a horrible place, and terrible things happen to all kinds of groups of people. The “meme” that started all this IS a cherry picked reference to people who were wronged (I’m not disputing they were wronged, but so were… insert any other group of people here). Throughout history, most civilizations are founded on the conquering of another. As horrible as that is, it’s a fact. And after the fact, many of the remaining conqured are treated horribly. Also a fact.\n
          \n
          Lay out some real numbers, cite an authoritative source (sources) and then we can talk. Until then, I hope the best for you and really wish we could get past this bickering bullshit. Life is too short, and trying to pin the sins of one’s father on the current generation isn’t solving shit. Work toward bettering peoples lives without having to exact revenge from people who didn’t have fuck all to do with it.
          """
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
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        +body: "And it’s written by a person, with an agenda and bias just like everyone else. Have a tough time taking anything seriously from someone affiliated with Ward Churchill."
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      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
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        +body: "Citing one book by someone with a clear agenda isn’t a good look either. You picked the fight, feel free to drop it at your leisure."
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        +"title": 41925
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      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024
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        +body: "I agree with your points, and yes it’s a better perspective, however, that’s not the world we’re living in. There are some who are hell bent on wiping out continents of people due to any number of reasons ranging from beliefs to the exploitation of natural resources merely for financial gain. I really wish we did live in a world where the word “nuclear” invoked thoughts of clean(er), abundant and cheaper energy vs it invoking dread at the prospect of total annihilation."
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        -id: 41306
        -bodyTs: "'abund':73 'agre':2 'annihil':86 'belief':44 'bent':29 'better':11 'cheaper':75 'clean':71 'contin':33 'dread':80 'due':36 'energi':76 'er':72 'exploit':47 'financi':53 'gain':54 'hell':28 'howev':13 'invok':68,79 'live':21,60 'mere':51 'natur':49 'nuclear':67 'number':39 'peopl':35 'perspect':12 'point':5 'prospect':83 'rang':42 're':20 'realli':56 'reason':41 'resourc':50 'thought':69 'total':85 'vs':77 'wipe':31 'wish':57 'word':66 'world':18,63 'yes':7"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-10-11 13:43:35.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41306
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2254
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2250 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +body: """
          Oh wait, my fault. I was responding to your comment “**We are still here**”\n
          \n
          Wasn’t sure which part of my anaolgy you weren’t getting. Now we can peacefully argue about that instead.\n
          \n
          **EDITED FOR TYPO
          """
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          date: 2023-10-12 20:52:28.0 +02:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        -id: 43749
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        +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/comment/4361340"
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          date: 2023-10-12 21:23:04.0 +02:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697136748 {#2244
          date: 2023-10-12 20:52:28.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 43749
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2189
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: """
          You don’t have to apologize to me. If he’s someone who would collaborate with Ward Churchill, he’s got a clear agenda. My source for that was looking him up on Wikipedia, as I had no clue who he was. I’m not going to do the effort of sending you a direct link to the article, so feel free to do it yourself. And grant us all the fact that someone who writes a book has an implied agenda to sell the book.\n
          \n
          And every time you start a post with “Source?”, it’s a bad look.
          """
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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        -id: 42135
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        +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/comment/4331392"
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          date: 2023-10-12 00:17:28.0 +02:00
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      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "While I mostly agree, I never said constant war, but where I will disagree in a sense is, the prospect of total annihilation would have been a factor millennia ago had the technology been there. Pick your era, the Romans, the various Chinese dynasties, the English, etc… if they had the means, they would have likely used it, having zero regard for the impact it would have later, mostly due to a poor understanding of the technology. I do believe, at least between “the big three”, meaning the US, Russia and China, nuclear war is an extremely potent deterrent to all out war. It’s the “kids who want to be in the club” that worry me, everyone from NK to Israel. It sucks, but the atomic cat is out of the bag in a world we’re all forced to live in, and the polarization of politics and other bullshit only work to drive that wedge deeper and push us closer to… bad shit."
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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          date: 2023-10-10 22:52:49.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 40641
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: """
          As I’m too stupid and it’s to early for me to do these inline…\n
          \n
          Your 1st point, here’s one, had to scroll about 1/8 down the page for. Granted it doesn’t explicitly say it was “okay”, the point stands:\n
          \n
          > “China/Russia/Europe are largely inhabited by people whose ancestry traces back 1000s of years to the same region. That’s very different from North America, where most natives where killed (either through disease or “policy”).\n
          \n
          > That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), but it’s still very different.”\n
          \n
          As you also wanted to be pointed to a source for genocides on the same or larger scale throughout history, allow me to search Wikipedia for you:\n
          \n
          [en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides)\n
          \n
          As to point 3, who exactly determines who is responsible and who will benefit from this paln to raise up America’s indigenous population to their proper station? Are 1st generation immigrants from Ghana going to be required to pay up? How about Natives who’s ancestry dates back to a tribe that exterminated another tribe? Surely that should also qualify as genocide?\n
          \n
          And as to point 4, we, in the west, as I did point out I was American, are in a (**relatively**) peaceful time, which implies that throughout history it has not been, but I guess I need to spell it out for some people.\n
          \n
          At the end of the day, you’re not looking to be enlightened or to learn anything, your post was directed to completely discount my points, or to “*troll*” I will admit I was getting heated reading some of the off the wall bullshit I was seeing, but superlatives aside, I stand by everything I’ve posted. I apologize if you TRULY didn’t know about other genocides, or if your worldview has jaded you to the point where you don’t initially see posts that clearly illustrate what I said, at least in the abstract, and you took the time to go back and reread them and allow it to sink in.\n
          \n
          Feel free to pick apart this post, too. Nothing is more entertaining in a meme thread than for 2 idiots, myself included, to argue about genocide.🙂
          """
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          date: 2023-10-11 14:10:25.0 +02:00
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2204
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2200 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +body: "Oversimplifing an empire being overthrown. Seems legit."
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2023-10-12 18:39:26.0 +02:00
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          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        -bodyTs: "'empir':3 'legit':7 'oversimplif':1 'overthrown':5 'seem':6"
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          date: 2023-10-12 18:39:26.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 43459
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2281
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
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        +body: "It’ll be a while before I can read further but I do intend to read all of it. In my biased opinion so far, i reads like a propaganda piece, the words seleceted in some of the passages are used to elicit a response, but maybe I’ll see differently as I continue. I do have a question, when you say “genocide”, are you also including open conflicts? It’s my understanding of the word that it would not, but I want to make sure, especially when numbers are involved, that we’re using the same metrics."
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          date: 2023-10-12 15:46:08.0 +02:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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        -id: 43093
        -bodyTs: "'also':66 'bias':22 'conflict':69 'continu':54 'differ':51 'elicit':43 'especi':87 'far':25 'genocid':63 'includ':67 'intend':14 'involv':91 'like':28 'll':2,49 'make':85 'mayb':47 'metric':98 'number':89 'open':68 'opinion':23 'passag':39 'piec':31 'propaganda':30 'question':59 're':94 'read':9,16,27 'respons':45 'say':62 'see':50 'selecet':34 'sure':86 'understand':73 'use':41,95 'want':83 'word':33,76 'would':79"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/comment/4352097"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697118368 {#2295
          date: 2023-10-12 15:46:08.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 43093
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      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2263
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: """
          People. On a land mass. Wiped out. People. On a land mass. Wiped out.\n
          \n
          Yeah, I guess I see your point.
          """
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        -id: 43560
        -bodyTs: "'guess':17 'land':4,11 'mass':5,12 'peopl':1,8 'point':21 'see':19 'wipe':6,13 'yeah':15"
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          date: 2023-10-12 19:25:03.0 +02:00
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      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
      16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2034
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "You too buddy! Would enjoy having rational conversations, even note elsewhere in this thread that I’m taking the time to read American Holocaust, as I told myself “why should I ask someone to do something I’m not willing to do myself?” Granted, being close to 50 years old, it likely won’t change my mind, but I reason that if I do read this book, maybe I can better understand other’s worldview, and maybe, just maybe we can have civil conversations instead of the stupid fucking bickering that’s been going on in a… wait for it… meme thread!"
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          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2045 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "Oh, I stand corrected. A link to a Google doc. Should probably submit that to the Wikipedia article I linked as clearly thier information is flawed. You win an internet today."
        +lang: "en"
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      date: 2023-10-09 13:23:41.0 +02:00
    }
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     …2
  }
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  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
  +body: "Explain. How is it a false equivalent? Romans controlled the city / region for over a thousand years and were later conqured, and their land stolen, to use the vernacular of this thread."
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    "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2196
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2196}
      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2324
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +body: "So by that logic, the Turks should give Constantinople back to the Romans?"
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2023-10-11 18:33:20.0 +02:00
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      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2307
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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          +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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          +body: """
            For fucks sake… 1st off, whether or not this qualifies as a “meme”, it doesn’t fit the accepted norm of what most people expect to see when they click on “memes”\n
            \n
            Secondly, and this may sting a little, but peace as we know it is a relatively new thing in world history. I’ve seen a multitude of other comments here proclaiming all those other genocides were okay because they were thousands of years ago. It’s that “in my lifetime” mentality that just fucking grinds my gears. Through thousands of years of history, one genocide is cherry picked and held up as the worst ever, and the citizens who"benefitted" from it are supposed to pick up the tab? My ancestors weren’t Spanish or English, and my family has been here for about 130 years having come from Germany in 1890. How much of the tab am I supposed to pick up?\n
            \n
            Fact of the matter is, the only constant in human history is war. We’re in a (relatively) peaceful era now, and that’s taking into account Ukraine/Russia, Israel/Palestine, and probably another 20 or 30 wars I’m not up to speed on because I’m American and our media doesn’t seem to actually inform us on world events from countries we don’t buy shit from.
            """
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        +body: """
          Clever.\n
          \n
          I’m going through the sourced materials in the American Holocaust book, (great title, by the way! not divisive at all!), and considering the sources, it’s pretty obvious Stannard has an agenda, he’s a “cultural materialist”, an offshoot of cultural Marxism. But you knew that, you just didn’t think I’d look 😉\n
          \n
          Anyway, with as far as I’ve gotten, I can surmise the sources, the majority of them at least, point to textbooks published by “Berkley; University of California press”. Seems a lot of anti-American sentiment comes out of Berkley. Just to appease my curiosity, I’m going to look deeper into this fellow, who, funny enough, cites his own works as well. That’s pretty douchey
          """
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2349
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: """
          Ah, the internet…\n
          \n
          The phrase “That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), **but it’s still very different**” effectively translates to “Even though this happened, this is worse”.\n
          \n
          If you bothered to look at that list, you’ll note the mention of the California Genocide of 1846. Reported casualties between 9,492 and 16,094, with other estimates as high as 120,000. Absolutely fucking horrible and a black mark on American history indeed. However, there are 31 other genocides on that list that are higher in number, with three of those even happening prior to California-\n
          \n
          Dzungam 1755, 480,000-600,000 Taino 1492, 68,000-968,000 Albigensian 1209, 200,000-1,000,000\n
          \n
          I guess it depends on how you define “genocide”, but since Wikipedia is generally using the accepted definition, I feel pretty safe in going with what they say.\n
          \n
          And I did lay out proof, you’re just too caught up in whatever ideology to see it. Feel free to rebut, down vote, cry or whatever makes you feel better, but my point was the world is a horrible place, and terrible things happen to all kinds of groups of people. The “meme” that started all this IS a cherry picked reference to people who were wronged (I’m not disputing they were wronged, but so were… insert any other group of people here). Throughout history, most civilizations are founded on the conquering of another. As horrible as that is, it’s a fact. And after the fact, many of the remaining conqured are treated horribly. Also a fact.\n
          \n
          Lay out some real numbers, cite an authoritative source (sources) and then we can talk. Until then, I hope the best for you and really wish we could get past this bickering bullshit. Life is too short, and trying to pin the sins of one’s father on the current generation isn’t solving shit. Work toward bettering peoples lives without having to exact revenge from people who didn’t have fuck all to do with it.
          """
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "And it’s written by a person, with an agenda and bias just like everyone else. Have a tough time taking anything seriously from someone affiliated with Ward Churchill."
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        +"title": 41891
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      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
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        +body: "Citing one book by someone with a clear agenda isn’t a good look either. You picked the fight, feel free to drop it at your leisure."
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          date: 2023-10-11 22:01:33.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41925
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "I agree with your points, and yes it’s a better perspective, however, that’s not the world we’re living in. There are some who are hell bent on wiping out continents of people due to any number of reasons ranging from beliefs to the exploitation of natural resources merely for financial gain. I really wish we did live in a world where the word “nuclear” invoked thoughts of clean(er), abundant and cheaper energy vs it invoking dread at the prospect of total annihilation."
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          date: 2023-10-11 13:43:35.0 +02:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        -id: 41306
        -bodyTs: "'abund':73 'agre':2 'annihil':86 'belief':44 'bent':29 'better':11 'cheaper':75 'clean':71 'contin':33 'dread':80 'due':36 'energi':76 'er':72 'exploit':47 'financi':53 'gain':54 'hell':28 'howev':13 'invok':68,79 'live':21,60 'mere':51 'natur':49 'nuclear':67 'number':39 'peopl':35 'perspect':12 'point':5 'prospect':83 'rang':42 're':20 'realli':56 'reason':41 'resourc':50 'thought':69 'total':85 'vs':77 'wipe':31 'wish':57 'word':66 'world':18,63 'yes':7"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-10-11 13:43:35.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41306
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2254
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2250 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +body: """
          Oh wait, my fault. I was responding to your comment “**We are still here**”\n
          \n
          Wasn’t sure which part of my anaolgy you weren’t getting. Now we can peacefully argue about that instead.\n
          \n
          **EDITED FOR TYPO
          """
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          date: 2023-10-12 20:52:28.0 +02:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        -id: 43749
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        +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/comment/4361340"
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          date: 2023-10-12 21:23:04.0 +02:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697136748 {#2244
          date: 2023-10-12 20:52:28.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 43749
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2189
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: """
          You don’t have to apologize to me. If he’s someone who would collaborate with Ward Churchill, he’s got a clear agenda. My source for that was looking him up on Wikipedia, as I had no clue who he was. I’m not going to do the effort of sending you a direct link to the article, so feel free to do it yourself. And grant us all the fact that someone who writes a book has an implied agenda to sell the book.\n
          \n
          And every time you start a post with “Source?”, it’s a bad look.
          """
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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          date: 2023-10-12 00:17:28.0 +02:00
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      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "While I mostly agree, I never said constant war, but where I will disagree in a sense is, the prospect of total annihilation would have been a factor millennia ago had the technology been there. Pick your era, the Romans, the various Chinese dynasties, the English, etc… if they had the means, they would have likely used it, having zero regard for the impact it would have later, mostly due to a poor understanding of the technology. I do believe, at least between “the big three”, meaning the US, Russia and China, nuclear war is an extremely potent deterrent to all out war. It’s the “kids who want to be in the club” that worry me, everyone from NK to Israel. It sucks, but the atomic cat is out of the bag in a world we’re all forced to live in, and the polarization of politics and other bullshit only work to drive that wedge deeper and push us closer to… bad shit."
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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          date: 2023-10-10 22:52:49.0 +02:00
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      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: """
          As I’m too stupid and it’s to early for me to do these inline…\n
          \n
          Your 1st point, here’s one, had to scroll about 1/8 down the page for. Granted it doesn’t explicitly say it was “okay”, the point stands:\n
          \n
          > “China/Russia/Europe are largely inhabited by people whose ancestry traces back 1000s of years to the same region. That’s very different from North America, where most natives where killed (either through disease or “policy”).\n
          \n
          > That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), but it’s still very different.”\n
          \n
          As you also wanted to be pointed to a source for genocides on the same or larger scale throughout history, allow me to search Wikipedia for you:\n
          \n
          [en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides)\n
          \n
          As to point 3, who exactly determines who is responsible and who will benefit from this paln to raise up America’s indigenous population to their proper station? Are 1st generation immigrants from Ghana going to be required to pay up? How about Natives who’s ancestry dates back to a tribe that exterminated another tribe? Surely that should also qualify as genocide?\n
          \n
          And as to point 4, we, in the west, as I did point out I was American, are in a (**relatively**) peaceful time, which implies that throughout history it has not been, but I guess I need to spell it out for some people.\n
          \n
          At the end of the day, you’re not looking to be enlightened or to learn anything, your post was directed to completely discount my points, or to “*troll*” I will admit I was getting heated reading some of the off the wall bullshit I was seeing, but superlatives aside, I stand by everything I’ve posted. I apologize if you TRULY didn’t know about other genocides, or if your worldview has jaded you to the point where you don’t initially see posts that clearly illustrate what I said, at least in the abstract, and you took the time to go back and reread them and allow it to sink in.\n
          \n
          Feel free to pick apart this post, too. Nothing is more entertaining in a meme thread than for 2 idiots, myself included, to argue about genocide.🙂
          """
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          date: 2023-10-11 14:10:25.0 +02:00
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2204
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2200 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +body: "Oversimplifing an empire being overthrown. Seems legit."
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2023-10-12 18:39:26.0 +02:00
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          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        -bodyTs: "'empir':3 'legit':7 'oversimplif':1 'overthrown':5 'seem':6"
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          date: 2023-10-12 18:39:26.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 43459
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2281
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "It’ll be a while before I can read further but I do intend to read all of it. In my biased opinion so far, i reads like a propaganda piece, the words seleceted in some of the passages are used to elicit a response, but maybe I’ll see differently as I continue. I do have a question, when you say “genocide”, are you also including open conflicts? It’s my understanding of the word that it would not, but I want to make sure, especially when numbers are involved, that we’re using the same metrics."
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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        -id: 43093
        -bodyTs: "'also':66 'bias':22 'conflict':69 'continu':54 'differ':51 'elicit':43 'especi':87 'far':25 'genocid':63 'includ':67 'intend':14 'involv':91 'like':28 'll':2,49 'make':85 'mayb':47 'metric':98 'number':89 'open':68 'opinion':23 'passag':39 'piec':31 'propaganda':30 'question':59 're':94 'read':9,16,27 'respons':45 'say':62 'see':50 'selecet':34 'sure':86 'understand':73 'use':41,95 'want':83 'word':33,76 'would':79"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/comment/4352097"
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          date: 2023-10-12 15:46:08.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 43093
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      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2263
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: """
          People. On a land mass. Wiped out. People. On a land mass. Wiped out.\n
          \n
          Yeah, I guess I see your point.
          """
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          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        -id: 43560
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          date: 2023-10-12 19:25:03.0 +02:00
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      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
      16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2034
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "You too buddy! Would enjoy having rational conversations, even note elsewhere in this thread that I’m taking the time to read American Holocaust, as I told myself “why should I ask someone to do something I’m not willing to do myself?” Granted, being close to 50 years old, it likely won’t change my mind, but I reason that if I do read this book, maybe I can better understand other’s worldview, and maybe, just maybe we can have civil conversations instead of the stupid fucking bickering that’s been going on in a… wait for it… meme thread!"
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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          date: 2023-10-12 22:21:54.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 43916
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "Oh, I stand corrected. A link to a Google doc. Should probably submit that to the Wikipedia article I linked as clearly thier information is flawed. You win an internet today."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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    ]
    -id: 3914
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      date: 2023-10-09 13:23:41.0 +02:00
    }
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     …2
  }
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  +body: "Explain. How is it a false equivalent? Romans controlled the city / region for over a thousand years and were later conqured, and their land stolen, to use the vernacular of this thread."
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    "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2196
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2196}
      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2324
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "So by that logic, the Turks should give Constantinople back to the Romans?"
        +lang: "en"
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      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2307
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          +body: """
            For fucks sake… 1st off, whether or not this qualifies as a “meme”, it doesn’t fit the accepted norm of what most people expect to see when they click on “memes”\n
            \n
            Secondly, and this may sting a little, but peace as we know it is a relatively new thing in world history. I’ve seen a multitude of other comments here proclaiming all those other genocides were okay because they were thousands of years ago. It’s that “in my lifetime” mentality that just fucking grinds my gears. Through thousands of years of history, one genocide is cherry picked and held up as the worst ever, and the citizens who"benefitted" from it are supposed to pick up the tab? My ancestors weren’t Spanish or English, and my family has been here for about 130 years having come from Germany in 1890. How much of the tab am I supposed to pick up?\n
            \n
            Fact of the matter is, the only constant in human history is war. We’re in a (relatively) peaceful era now, and that’s taking into account Ukraine/Russia, Israel/Palestine, and probably another 20 or 30 wars I’m not up to speed on because I’m American and our media doesn’t seem to actually inform us on world events from countries we don’t buy shit from.
            """
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            date: 2023-10-10 19:45:38.0 +02:00
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        +body: """
          Clever.\n
          \n
          I’m going through the sourced materials in the American Holocaust book, (great title, by the way! not divisive at all!), and considering the sources, it’s pretty obvious Stannard has an agenda, he’s a “cultural materialist”, an offshoot of cultural Marxism. But you knew that, you just didn’t think I’d look 😉\n
          \n
          Anyway, with as far as I’ve gotten, I can surmise the sources, the majority of them at least, point to textbooks published by “Berkley; University of California press”. Seems a lot of anti-American sentiment comes out of Berkley. Just to appease my curiosity, I’m going to look deeper into this fellow, who, funny enough, cites his own works as well. That’s pretty douchey
          """
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2349
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: """
          Ah, the internet…\n
          \n
          The phrase “That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), **but it’s still very different**” effectively translates to “Even though this happened, this is worse”.\n
          \n
          If you bothered to look at that list, you’ll note the mention of the California Genocide of 1846. Reported casualties between 9,492 and 16,094, with other estimates as high as 120,000. Absolutely fucking horrible and a black mark on American history indeed. However, there are 31 other genocides on that list that are higher in number, with three of those even happening prior to California-\n
          \n
          Dzungam 1755, 480,000-600,000 Taino 1492, 68,000-968,000 Albigensian 1209, 200,000-1,000,000\n
          \n
          I guess it depends on how you define “genocide”, but since Wikipedia is generally using the accepted definition, I feel pretty safe in going with what they say.\n
          \n
          And I did lay out proof, you’re just too caught up in whatever ideology to see it. Feel free to rebut, down vote, cry or whatever makes you feel better, but my point was the world is a horrible place, and terrible things happen to all kinds of groups of people. The “meme” that started all this IS a cherry picked reference to people who were wronged (I’m not disputing they were wronged, but so were… insert any other group of people here). Throughout history, most civilizations are founded on the conquering of another. As horrible as that is, it’s a fact. And after the fact, many of the remaining conqured are treated horribly. Also a fact.\n
          \n
          Lay out some real numbers, cite an authoritative source (sources) and then we can talk. Until then, I hope the best for you and really wish we could get past this bickering bullshit. Life is too short, and trying to pin the sins of one’s father on the current generation isn’t solving shit. Work toward bettering peoples lives without having to exact revenge from people who didn’t have fuck all to do with it.
          """
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "And it’s written by a person, with an agenda and bias just like everyone else. Have a tough time taking anything seriously from someone affiliated with Ward Churchill."
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      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
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        +body: "Citing one book by someone with a clear agenda isn’t a good look either. You picked the fight, feel free to drop it at your leisure."
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        +"title": 41925
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      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2022 …}
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        +body: "I agree with your points, and yes it’s a better perspective, however, that’s not the world we’re living in. There are some who are hell bent on wiping out continents of people due to any number of reasons ranging from beliefs to the exploitation of natural resources merely for financial gain. I really wish we did live in a world where the word “nuclear” invoked thoughts of clean(er), abundant and cheaper energy vs it invoking dread at the prospect of total annihilation."
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-10-11 13:43:35.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41306
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2254
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2250 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +body: """
          Oh wait, my fault. I was responding to your comment “**We are still here**”\n
          \n
          Wasn’t sure which part of my anaolgy you weren’t getting. Now we can peacefully argue about that instead.\n
          \n
          **EDITED FOR TYPO
          """
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          date: 2023-10-12 20:52:28.0 +02:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/comment/4361340"
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          date: 2023-10-12 21:23:04.0 +02:00
        }
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          date: 2023-10-12 20:52:28.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 43749
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2189
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: """
          You don’t have to apologize to me. If he’s someone who would collaborate with Ward Churchill, he’s got a clear agenda. My source for that was looking him up on Wikipedia, as I had no clue who he was. I’m not going to do the effort of sending you a direct link to the article, so feel free to do it yourself. And grant us all the fact that someone who writes a book has an implied agenda to sell the book.\n
          \n
          And every time you start a post with “Source?”, it’s a bad look.
          """
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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          date: 2023-10-12 00:17:28.0 +02:00
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      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "While I mostly agree, I never said constant war, but where I will disagree in a sense is, the prospect of total annihilation would have been a factor millennia ago had the technology been there. Pick your era, the Romans, the various Chinese dynasties, the English, etc… if they had the means, they would have likely used it, having zero regard for the impact it would have later, mostly due to a poor understanding of the technology. I do believe, at least between “the big three”, meaning the US, Russia and China, nuclear war is an extremely potent deterrent to all out war. It’s the “kids who want to be in the club” that worry me, everyone from NK to Israel. It sucks, but the atomic cat is out of the bag in a world we’re all forced to live in, and the polarization of politics and other bullshit only work to drive that wedge deeper and push us closer to… bad shit."
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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          date: 2023-10-10 22:52:49.0 +02:00
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      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: """
          As I’m too stupid and it’s to early for me to do these inline…\n
          \n
          Your 1st point, here’s one, had to scroll about 1/8 down the page for. Granted it doesn’t explicitly say it was “okay”, the point stands:\n
          \n
          > “China/Russia/Europe are largely inhabited by people whose ancestry traces back 1000s of years to the same region. That’s very different from North America, where most natives where killed (either through disease or “policy”).\n
          \n
          > That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), but it’s still very different.”\n
          \n
          As you also wanted to be pointed to a source for genocides on the same or larger scale throughout history, allow me to search Wikipedia for you:\n
          \n
          [en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides)\n
          \n
          As to point 3, who exactly determines who is responsible and who will benefit from this paln to raise up America’s indigenous population to their proper station? Are 1st generation immigrants from Ghana going to be required to pay up? How about Natives who’s ancestry dates back to a tribe that exterminated another tribe? Surely that should also qualify as genocide?\n
          \n
          And as to point 4, we, in the west, as I did point out I was American, are in a (**relatively**) peaceful time, which implies that throughout history it has not been, but I guess I need to spell it out for some people.\n
          \n
          At the end of the day, you’re not looking to be enlightened or to learn anything, your post was directed to completely discount my points, or to “*troll*” I will admit I was getting heated reading some of the off the wall bullshit I was seeing, but superlatives aside, I stand by everything I’ve posted. I apologize if you TRULY didn’t know about other genocides, or if your worldview has jaded you to the point where you don’t initially see posts that clearly illustrate what I said, at least in the abstract, and you took the time to go back and reread them and allow it to sink in.\n
          \n
          Feel free to pick apart this post, too. Nothing is more entertaining in a meme thread than for 2 idiots, myself included, to argue about genocide.🙂
          """
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          date: 2023-10-11 14:10:25.0 +02:00
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      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2204
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2200 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +body: "Oversimplifing an empire being overthrown. Seems legit."
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2023-10-12 18:39:26.0 +02:00
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          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        -bodyTs: "'empir':3 'legit':7 'oversimplif':1 'overthrown':5 'seem':6"
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          date: 2023-10-12 18:39:26.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 43459
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2281
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "It’ll be a while before I can read further but I do intend to read all of it. In my biased opinion so far, i reads like a propaganda piece, the words seleceted in some of the passages are used to elicit a response, but maybe I’ll see differently as I continue. I do have a question, when you say “genocide”, are you also including open conflicts? It’s my understanding of the word that it would not, but I want to make sure, especially when numbers are involved, that we’re using the same metrics."
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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        -id: 43093
        -bodyTs: "'also':66 'bias':22 'conflict':69 'continu':54 'differ':51 'elicit':43 'especi':87 'far':25 'genocid':63 'includ':67 'intend':14 'involv':91 'like':28 'll':2,49 'make':85 'mayb':47 'metric':98 'number':89 'open':68 'opinion':23 'passag':39 'piec':31 'propaganda':30 'question':59 're':94 'read':9,16,27 'respons':45 'say':62 'see':50 'selecet':34 'sure':86 'understand':73 'use':41,95 'want':83 'word':33,76 'would':79"
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        +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/comment/4352097"
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          date: 2023-10-12 15:46:08.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 43093
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      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2263
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: """
          People. On a land mass. Wiped out. People. On a land mass. Wiped out.\n
          \n
          Yeah, I guess I see your point.
          """
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          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
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          date: 2023-10-12 19:25:03.0 +02:00
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      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
      16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2034
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "You too buddy! Would enjoy having rational conversations, even note elsewhere in this thread that I’m taking the time to read American Holocaust, as I told myself “why should I ask someone to do something I’m not willing to do myself?” Granted, being close to 50 years old, it likely won’t change my mind, but I reason that if I do read this book, maybe I can better understand other’s worldview, and maybe, just maybe we can have civil conversations instead of the stupid fucking bickering that’s been going on in a… wait for it… meme thread!"
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          date: 2023-10-12 22:21:54.0 +02:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2045 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "Oh, I stand corrected. A link to a Google doc. Should probably submit that to the Wikipedia article I linked as clearly thier information is flawed. You win an internet today."
        +lang: "en"
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      date: 2023-10-09 13:23:41.0 +02:00
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     …2
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  +body: "Explain. How is it a false equivalent? Romans controlled the city / region for over a thousand years and were later conqured, and their land stolen, to use the vernacular of this thread."
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    "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2324
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2196
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "Explain. How is it a false equivalent? Romans controlled the city / region for over a thousand years and were later conqured, and their land stolen, to use the vernacular of this thread."
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2324}
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2307
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          +body: """
            For fucks sake… 1st off, whether or not this qualifies as a “meme”, it doesn’t fit the accepted norm of what most people expect to see when they click on “memes”\n
            \n
            Secondly, and this may sting a little, but peace as we know it is a relatively new thing in world history. I’ve seen a multitude of other comments here proclaiming all those other genocides were okay because they were thousands of years ago. It’s that “in my lifetime” mentality that just fucking grinds my gears. Through thousands of years of history, one genocide is cherry picked and held up as the worst ever, and the citizens who"benefitted" from it are supposed to pick up the tab? My ancestors weren’t Spanish or English, and my family has been here for about 130 years having come from Germany in 1890. How much of the tab am I supposed to pick up?\n
            \n
            Fact of the matter is, the only constant in human history is war. We’re in a (relatively) peaceful era now, and that’s taking into account Ukraine/Russia, Israel/Palestine, and probably another 20 or 30 wars I’m not up to speed on because I’m American and our media doesn’t seem to actually inform us on world events from countries we don’t buy shit from.
            """
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        +body: """
          Clever.\n
          \n
          I’m going through the sourced materials in the American Holocaust book, (great title, by the way! not divisive at all!), and considering the sources, it’s pretty obvious Stannard has an agenda, he’s a “cultural materialist”, an offshoot of cultural Marxism. But you knew that, you just didn’t think I’d look 😉\n
          \n
          Anyway, with as far as I’ve gotten, I can surmise the sources, the majority of them at least, point to textbooks published by “Berkley; University of California press”. Seems a lot of anti-American sentiment comes out of Berkley. Just to appease my curiosity, I’m going to look deeper into this fellow, who, funny enough, cites his own works as well. That’s pretty douchey
          """
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2349
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        +body: """
          Ah, the internet…\n
          \n
          The phrase “That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), **but it’s still very different**” effectively translates to “Even though this happened, this is worse”.\n
          \n
          If you bothered to look at that list, you’ll note the mention of the California Genocide of 1846. Reported casualties between 9,492 and 16,094, with other estimates as high as 120,000. Absolutely fucking horrible and a black mark on American history indeed. However, there are 31 other genocides on that list that are higher in number, with three of those even happening prior to California-\n
          \n
          Dzungam 1755, 480,000-600,000 Taino 1492, 68,000-968,000 Albigensian 1209, 200,000-1,000,000\n
          \n
          I guess it depends on how you define “genocide”, but since Wikipedia is generally using the accepted definition, I feel pretty safe in going with what they say.\n
          \n
          And I did lay out proof, you’re just too caught up in whatever ideology to see it. Feel free to rebut, down vote, cry or whatever makes you feel better, but my point was the world is a horrible place, and terrible things happen to all kinds of groups of people. The “meme” that started all this IS a cherry picked reference to people who were wronged (I’m not disputing they were wronged, but so were… insert any other group of people here). Throughout history, most civilizations are founded on the conquering of another. As horrible as that is, it’s a fact. And after the fact, many of the remaining conqured are treated horribly. Also a fact.\n
          \n
          Lay out some real numbers, cite an authoritative source (sources) and then we can talk. Until then, I hope the best for you and really wish we could get past this bickering bullshit. Life is too short, and trying to pin the sins of one’s father on the current generation isn’t solving shit. Work toward bettering peoples lives without having to exact revenge from people who didn’t have fuck all to do with it.
          """
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
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        +body: "And it’s written by a person, with an agenda and bias just like everyone else. Have a tough time taking anything seriously from someone affiliated with Ward Churchill."
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      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
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        +body: "Citing one book by someone with a clear agenda isn’t a good look either. You picked the fight, feel free to drop it at your leisure."
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        -id: 41925
        -bodyTs: "'agenda':9 'book':3 'cite':1 'clear':8 'drop':23 'either':15 'feel':20 'fight':19 'free':21 'good':13 'isn':10 'leisur':27 'look':14 'one':2 'pick':17 'someon':5"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-10-11 22:01:33.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41925
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      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "I agree with your points, and yes it’s a better perspective, however, that’s not the world we’re living in. There are some who are hell bent on wiping out continents of people due to any number of reasons ranging from beliefs to the exploitation of natural resources merely for financial gain. I really wish we did live in a world where the word “nuclear” invoked thoughts of clean(er), abundant and cheaper energy vs it invoking dread at the prospect of total annihilation."
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          date: 2023-10-11 13:43:35.0 +02:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-10-11 13:43:35.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41306
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2254
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2250 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +body: """
          Oh wait, my fault. I was responding to your comment “**We are still here**”\n
          \n
          Wasn’t sure which part of my anaolgy you weren’t getting. Now we can peacefully argue about that instead.\n
          \n
          **EDITED FOR TYPO
          """
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          date: 2023-10-12 20:52:28.0 +02:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        -id: 43749
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          date: 2023-10-12 21:23:04.0 +02:00
        }
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          date: 2023-10-12 20:52:28.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 43749
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2189
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: """
          You don’t have to apologize to me. If he’s someone who would collaborate with Ward Churchill, he’s got a clear agenda. My source for that was looking him up on Wikipedia, as I had no clue who he was. I’m not going to do the effort of sending you a direct link to the article, so feel free to do it yourself. And grant us all the fact that someone who writes a book has an implied agenda to sell the book.\n
          \n
          And every time you start a post with “Source?”, it’s a bad look.
          """
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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        -id: 42135
        -bodyTs: "'agenda':24,82 'apolog':6 'articl':59 'bad':99 'book':78,86 'churchil':18 'clear':23 'clue':39 'collabor':15 'direct':55 'effort':50 'everi':88 'fact':72 'feel':61 'free':62 'go':46 'got':21 'grant':68 'impli':81 'link':56 'look':30,100 'm':44 'post':93 'sell':84 'send':52 'someon':12,74 'sourc':26,95 'start':91 'time':89 'us':69 'ward':17 'wikipedia':34 'would':14 'write':76"
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          date: 2023-10-12 00:17:28.0 +02:00
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      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "While I mostly agree, I never said constant war, but where I will disagree in a sense is, the prospect of total annihilation would have been a factor millennia ago had the technology been there. Pick your era, the Romans, the various Chinese dynasties, the English, etc… if they had the means, they would have likely used it, having zero regard for the impact it would have later, mostly due to a poor understanding of the technology. I do believe, at least between “the big three”, meaning the US, Russia and China, nuclear war is an extremely potent deterrent to all out war. It’s the “kids who want to be in the club” that worry me, everyone from NK to Israel. It sucks, but the atomic cat is out of the bag in a world we’re all forced to live in, and the polarization of politics and other bullshit only work to drive that wedge deeper and push us closer to… bad shit."
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          "@ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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          date: 2023-10-10 22:52:49.0 +02:00
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      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: """
          As I’m too stupid and it’s to early for me to do these inline…\n
          \n
          Your 1st point, here’s one, had to scroll about 1/8 down the page for. Granted it doesn’t explicitly say it was “okay”, the point stands:\n
          \n
          > “China/Russia/Europe are largely inhabited by people whose ancestry traces back 1000s of years to the same region. That’s very different from North America, where most natives where killed (either through disease or “policy”).\n
          \n
          > That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), but it’s still very different.”\n
          \n
          As you also wanted to be pointed to a source for genocides on the same or larger scale throughout history, allow me to search Wikipedia for you:\n
          \n
          [en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides)\n
          \n
          As to point 3, who exactly determines who is responsible and who will benefit from this paln to raise up America’s indigenous population to their proper station? Are 1st generation immigrants from Ghana going to be required to pay up? How about Natives who’s ancestry dates back to a tribe that exterminated another tribe? Surely that should also qualify as genocide?\n
          \n
          And as to point 4, we, in the west, as I did point out I was American, are in a (**relatively**) peaceful time, which implies that throughout history it has not been, but I guess I need to spell it out for some people.\n
          \n
          At the end of the day, you’re not looking to be enlightened or to learn anything, your post was directed to completely discount my points, or to “*troll*” I will admit I was getting heated reading some of the off the wall bullshit I was seeing, but superlatives aside, I stand by everything I’ve posted. I apologize if you TRULY didn’t know about other genocides, or if your worldview has jaded you to the point where you don’t initially see posts that clearly illustrate what I said, at least in the abstract, and you took the time to go back and reread them and allow it to sink in.\n
          \n
          Feel free to pick apart this post, too. Nothing is more entertaining in a meme thread than for 2 idiots, myself included, to argue about genocide.🙂
          """
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          date: 2023-10-11 14:10:25.0 +02:00
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2204
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2200 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +body: "Oversimplifing an empire being overthrown. Seems legit."
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2023-10-12 18:39:26.0 +02:00
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          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        -id: 43459
        -bodyTs: "'empir':3 'legit':7 'oversimplif':1 'overthrown':5 'seem':6"
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          date: 2023-10-12 18:39:26.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 43459
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2281
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "It’ll be a while before I can read further but I do intend to read all of it. In my biased opinion so far, i reads like a propaganda piece, the words seleceted in some of the passages are used to elicit a response, but maybe I’ll see differently as I continue. I do have a question, when you say “genocide”, are you also including open conflicts? It’s my understanding of the word that it would not, but I want to make sure, especially when numbers are involved, that we’re using the same metrics."
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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        -id: 43093
        -bodyTs: "'also':66 'bias':22 'conflict':69 'continu':54 'differ':51 'elicit':43 'especi':87 'far':25 'genocid':63 'includ':67 'intend':14 'involv':91 'like':28 'll':2,49 'make':85 'mayb':47 'metric':98 'number':89 'open':68 'opinion':23 'passag':39 'piec':31 'propaganda':30 'question':59 're':94 'read':9,16,27 'respons':45 'say':62 'see':50 'selecet':34 'sure':86 'understand':73 'use':41,95 'want':83 'word':33,76 'would':79"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/comment/4352097"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697118368 {#2295
          date: 2023-10-12 15:46:08.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 43093
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      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2263
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: """
          People. On a land mass. Wiped out. People. On a land mass. Wiped out.\n
          \n
          Yeah, I guess I see your point.
          """
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        -id: 43560
        -bodyTs: "'guess':17 'land':4,11 'mass':5,12 'peopl':1,8 'point':21 'see':19 'wipe':6,13 'yeah':15"
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          date: 2023-10-12 19:25:03.0 +02:00
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      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
      16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2034
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "You too buddy! Would enjoy having rational conversations, even note elsewhere in this thread that I’m taking the time to read American Holocaust, as I told myself “why should I ask someone to do something I’m not willing to do myself?” Granted, being close to 50 years old, it likely won’t change my mind, but I reason that if I do read this book, maybe I can better understand other’s worldview, and maybe, just maybe we can have civil conversations instead of the stupid fucking bickering that’s been going on in a… wait for it… meme thread!"
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          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
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          date: 2023-10-12 22:21:54.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 43916
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
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        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2045 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "Oh, I stand corrected. A link to a Google doc. Should probably submit that to the Wikipedia article I linked as clearly thier information is flawed. You win an internet today."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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    ]
    -id: 3914
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      date: 2023-10-09 13:23:41.0 +02:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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  +body: "So by that logic, the Turks should give Constantinople back to the Romans?"
  +lang: "en"
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    "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
    "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
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  -bodyTs: "'back':10 'constantinopl':9 'give':8 'logic':4 'roman':13 'turk':6"
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  +"title": 41637
}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2324
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2738 …}
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    +slug: "History"
    +title: "History"
    +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/be2234f5-922c-44d7-a193-c11380bdfa00.jpeg"
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    +children: [
      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2196
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2199 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +body: "Explain. How is it a false equivalent? Romans controlled the city / region for over a thousand years and were later conqured, and their land stolen, to use the vernacular of this thread."
        +lang: "en"
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          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2324}
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2307
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
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          +body: """
            For fucks sake… 1st off, whether or not this qualifies as a “meme”, it doesn’t fit the accepted norm of what most people expect to see when they click on “memes”\n
            \n
            Secondly, and this may sting a little, but peace as we know it is a relatively new thing in world history. I’ve seen a multitude of other comments here proclaiming all those other genocides were okay because they were thousands of years ago. It’s that “in my lifetime” mentality that just fucking grinds my gears. Through thousands of years of history, one genocide is cherry picked and held up as the worst ever, and the citizens who"benefitted" from it are supposed to pick up the tab? My ancestors weren’t Spanish or English, and my family has been here for about 130 years having come from Germany in 1890. How much of the tab am I supposed to pick up?\n
            \n
            Fact of the matter is, the only constant in human history is war. We’re in a (relatively) peaceful era now, and that’s taking into account Ukraine/Russia, Israel/Palestine, and probably another 20 or 30 wars I’m not up to speed on because I’m American and our media doesn’t seem to actually inform us on world events from countries we don’t buy shit from.
            """
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          -id: 40337
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        +body: """
          Clever.\n
          \n
          I’m going through the sourced materials in the American Holocaust book, (great title, by the way! not divisive at all!), and considering the sources, it’s pretty obvious Stannard has an agenda, he’s a “cultural materialist”, an offshoot of cultural Marxism. But you knew that, you just didn’t think I’d look 😉\n
          \n
          Anyway, with as far as I’ve gotten, I can surmise the sources, the majority of them at least, point to textbooks published by “Berkley; University of California press”. Seems a lot of anti-American sentiment comes out of Berkley. Just to appease my curiosity, I’m going to look deeper into this fellow, who, funny enough, cites his own works as well. That’s pretty douchey
          """
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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        -id: 42180
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2349
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
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        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2042 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: """
          Ah, the internet…\n
          \n
          The phrase “That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), **but it’s still very different**” effectively translates to “Even though this happened, this is worse”.\n
          \n
          If you bothered to look at that list, you’ll note the mention of the California Genocide of 1846. Reported casualties between 9,492 and 16,094, with other estimates as high as 120,000. Absolutely fucking horrible and a black mark on American history indeed. However, there are 31 other genocides on that list that are higher in number, with three of those even happening prior to California-\n
          \n
          Dzungam 1755, 480,000-600,000 Taino 1492, 68,000-968,000 Albigensian 1209, 200,000-1,000,000\n
          \n
          I guess it depends on how you define “genocide”, but since Wikipedia is generally using the accepted definition, I feel pretty safe in going with what they say.\n
          \n
          And I did lay out proof, you’re just too caught up in whatever ideology to see it. Feel free to rebut, down vote, cry or whatever makes you feel better, but my point was the world is a horrible place, and terrible things happen to all kinds of groups of people. The “meme” that started all this IS a cherry picked reference to people who were wronged (I’m not disputing they were wronged, but so were… insert any other group of people here). Throughout history, most civilizations are founded on the conquering of another. As horrible as that is, it’s a fact. And after the fact, many of the remaining conqured are treated horribly. Also a fact.\n
          \n
          Lay out some real numbers, cite an authoritative source (sources) and then we can talk. Until then, I hope the best for you and really wish we could get past this bickering bullshit. Life is too short, and trying to pin the sins of one’s father on the current generation isn’t solving shit. Work toward bettering peoples lives without having to exact revenge from people who didn’t have fuck all to do with it.
          """
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          date: 2023-10-11 17:56:07.0 +02:00
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2113 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "And it’s written by a person, with an agenda and bias just like everyone else. Have a tough time taking anything seriously from someone affiliated with Ward Churchill."
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          date: 2023-10-11 21:46:08.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 41891
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      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "Citing one book by someone with a clear agenda isn’t a good look either. You picked the fight, feel free to drop it at your leisure."
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        }
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2198 …}
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        -id: 41925
        -bodyTs: "'agenda':9 'book':3 'cite':1 'clear':8 'drop':23 'either':15 'feel':20 'fight':19 'free':21 'good':13 'isn':10 'leisur':27 'look':14 'one':2 'pick':17 'someon':5"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-10-11 22:01:33.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41925
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2022 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "I agree with your points, and yes it’s a better perspective, however, that’s not the world we’re living in. There are some who are hell bent on wiping out continents of people due to any number of reasons ranging from beliefs to the exploitation of natural resources merely for financial gain. I really wish we did live in a world where the word “nuclear” invoked thoughts of clean(er), abundant and cheaper energy vs it invoking dread at the prospect of total annihilation."
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2023-10-11 13:43:35.0 +02:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        -id: 41306
        -bodyTs: "'abund':73 'agre':2 'annihil':86 'belief':44 'bent':29 'better':11 'cheaper':75 'clean':71 'contin':33 'dread':80 'due':36 'energi':76 'er':72 'exploit':47 'financi':53 'gain':54 'hell':28 'howev':13 'invok':68,79 'live':21,60 'mere':51 'natur':49 'nuclear':67 'number':39 'peopl':35 'perspect':12 'point':5 'prospect':83 'rang':42 're':20 'realli':56 'reason':41 'resourc':50 'thought':69 'total':85 'vs':77 'wipe':31 'wish':57 'word':66 'world':18,63 'yes':7"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-10-11 13:43:35.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41306
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2254
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2250 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +body: """
          Oh wait, my fault. I was responding to your comment “**We are still here**”\n
          \n
          Wasn’t sure which part of my anaolgy you weren’t getting. Now we can peacefully argue about that instead.\n
          \n
          **EDITED FOR TYPO
          """
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          date: 2023-10-12 20:52:28.0 +02:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        -id: 43749
        -bodyTs: "'anaolgi':22 'argu':31 'comment':10 'edit':35 'fault':4 'get':26 'instead':34 'oh':1 'part':19 'peac':30 'respond':7 'still':13 'sure':17 'typo':37 'wait':2 'wasn':15 'weren':24"
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        +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/comment/4361340"
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          date: 2023-10-12 21:23:04.0 +02:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697136748 {#2244
          date: 2023-10-12 20:52:28.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 43749
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2189
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2299 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: """
          You don’t have to apologize to me. If he’s someone who would collaborate with Ward Churchill, he’s got a clear agenda. My source for that was looking him up on Wikipedia, as I had no clue who he was. I’m not going to do the effort of sending you a direct link to the article, so feel free to do it yourself. And grant us all the fact that someone who writes a book has an implied agenda to sell the book.\n
          \n
          And every time you start a post with “Source?”, it’s a bad look.
          """
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        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-10-12 00:17:28.0 +02:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
        ]
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        -id: 42135
        -bodyTs: "'agenda':24,82 'apolog':6 'articl':59 'bad':99 'book':78,86 'churchil':18 'clear':23 'clue':39 'collabor':15 'direct':55 'effort':50 'everi':88 'fact':72 'feel':61 'free':62 'go':46 'got':21 'grant':68 'impli':81 'link':56 'look':30,100 'm':44 'post':93 'sell':84 'send':52 'someon':12,74 'sourc':26,95 'start':91 'time':89 'us':69 'ward':17 'wikipedia':34 'would':14 'write':76"
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        +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/comment/4331392"
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          date: 2023-10-12 00:17:28.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 42135
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "While I mostly agree, I never said constant war, but where I will disagree in a sense is, the prospect of total annihilation would have been a factor millennia ago had the technology been there. Pick your era, the Romans, the various Chinese dynasties, the English, etc… if they had the means, they would have likely used it, having zero regard for the impact it would have later, mostly due to a poor understanding of the technology. I do believe, at least between “the big three”, meaning the US, Russia and China, nuclear war is an extremely potent deterrent to all out war. It’s the “kids who want to be in the club” that worry me, everyone from NK to Israel. It sucks, but the atomic cat is out of the bag in a world we’re all forced to live in, and the polarization of politics and other bullshit only work to drive that wedge deeper and push us closer to… bad shit."
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        -id: 40641
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          date: 2023-10-10 22:52:49.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 40641
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: """
          As I’m too stupid and it’s to early for me to do these inline…\n
          \n
          Your 1st point, here’s one, had to scroll about 1/8 down the page for. Granted it doesn’t explicitly say it was “okay”, the point stands:\n
          \n
          > “China/Russia/Europe are largely inhabited by people whose ancestry traces back 1000s of years to the same region. That’s very different from North America, where most natives where killed (either through disease or “policy”).\n
          \n
          > That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), but it’s still very different.”\n
          \n
          As you also wanted to be pointed to a source for genocides on the same or larger scale throughout history, allow me to search Wikipedia for you:\n
          \n
          [en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides)\n
          \n
          As to point 3, who exactly determines who is responsible and who will benefit from this paln to raise up America’s indigenous population to their proper station? Are 1st generation immigrants from Ghana going to be required to pay up? How about Natives who’s ancestry dates back to a tribe that exterminated another tribe? Surely that should also qualify as genocide?\n
          \n
          And as to point 4, we, in the west, as I did point out I was American, are in a (**relatively**) peaceful time, which implies that throughout history it has not been, but I guess I need to spell it out for some people.\n
          \n
          At the end of the day, you’re not looking to be enlightened or to learn anything, your post was directed to completely discount my points, or to “*troll*” I will admit I was getting heated reading some of the off the wall bullshit I was seeing, but superlatives aside, I stand by everything I’ve posted. I apologize if you TRULY didn’t know about other genocides, or if your worldview has jaded you to the point where you don’t initially see posts that clearly illustrate what I said, at least in the abstract, and you took the time to go back and reread them and allow it to sink in.\n
          \n
          Feel free to pick apart this post, too. Nothing is more entertaining in a meme thread than for 2 idiots, myself included, to argue about genocide.🙂
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-10-11 14:10:25.0 +02:00
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
        ]
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697026225 {#2036
          date: 2023-10-11 14:10:25.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41323
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2204
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2200 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +body: "Oversimplifing an empire being overthrown. Seems legit."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
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        +lastActive: DateTime @1697128766 {#2208
          date: 2023-10-12 18:39:26.0 +02:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        -id: 43459
        -bodyTs: "'empir':3 'legit':7 'oversimplif':1 'overthrown':5 'seem':6"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697128766 {#2209
          date: 2023-10-12 18:39:26.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 43459
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2281
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2283 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "It’ll be a while before I can read further but I do intend to read all of it. In my biased opinion so far, i reads like a propaganda piece, the words seleceted in some of the passages are used to elicit a response, but maybe I’ll see differently as I continue. I do have a question, when you say “genocide”, are you also including open conflicts? It’s my understanding of the word that it would not, but I want to make sure, especially when numbers are involved, that we’re using the same metrics."
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2023-10-12 15:46:08.0 +02:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
        ]
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        -id: 43093
        -bodyTs: "'also':66 'bias':22 'conflict':69 'continu':54 'differ':51 'elicit':43 'especi':87 'far':25 'genocid':63 'includ':67 'intend':14 'involv':91 'like':28 'll':2,49 'make':85 'mayb':47 'metric':98 'number':89 'open':68 'opinion':23 'passag':39 'piec':31 'propaganda':30 'question':59 're':94 'read':9,16,27 'respons':45 'say':62 'see':50 'selecet':34 'sure':86 'understand':73 'use':41,95 'want':83 'word':33,76 'would':79"
        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/comment/4352097"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697118368 {#2295
          date: 2023-10-12 15:46:08.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 43093
      }
      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2263
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
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        +body: """
          People. On a land mass. Wiped out. People. On a land mass. Wiped out.\n
          \n
          Yeah, I guess I see your point.
          """
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          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
      16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2034
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2039 …}
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        +body: "You too buddy! Would enjoy having rational conversations, even note elsewhere in this thread that I’m taking the time to read American Holocaust, as I told myself “why should I ask someone to do something I’m not willing to do myself?” Granted, being close to 50 years old, it likely won’t change my mind, but I reason that if I do read this book, maybe I can better understand other’s worldview, and maybe, just maybe we can have civil conversations instead of the stupid fucking bickering that’s been going on in a… wait for it… meme thread!"
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          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
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        +"title": 43916
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2045 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "Oh, I stand corrected. A link to a Google doc. Should probably submit that to the Wikipedia article I linked as clearly thier information is flawed. You win an internet today."
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      date: 2023-10-09 13:23:41.0 +02:00
    }
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     …2
  }
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  +body: "So by that logic, the Turks should give Constantinople back to the Romans?"
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2324
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    +slug: "History"
    +title: "History"
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2196
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "Explain. How is it a false equivalent? Romans controlled the city / region for over a thousand years and were later conqured, and their land stolen, to use the vernacular of this thread."
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2324}
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2307
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          +body: """
            For fucks sake… 1st off, whether or not this qualifies as a “meme”, it doesn’t fit the accepted norm of what most people expect to see when they click on “memes”\n
            \n
            Secondly, and this may sting a little, but peace as we know it is a relatively new thing in world history. I’ve seen a multitude of other comments here proclaiming all those other genocides were okay because they were thousands of years ago. It’s that “in my lifetime” mentality that just fucking grinds my gears. Through thousands of years of history, one genocide is cherry picked and held up as the worst ever, and the citizens who"benefitted" from it are supposed to pick up the tab? My ancestors weren’t Spanish or English, and my family has been here for about 130 years having come from Germany in 1890. How much of the tab am I supposed to pick up?\n
            \n
            Fact of the matter is, the only constant in human history is war. We’re in a (relatively) peaceful era now, and that’s taking into account Ukraine/Russia, Israel/Palestine, and probably another 20 or 30 wars I’m not up to speed on because I’m American and our media doesn’t seem to actually inform us on world events from countries we don’t buy shit from.
            """
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        +body: """
          Clever.\n
          \n
          I’m going through the sourced materials in the American Holocaust book, (great title, by the way! not divisive at all!), and considering the sources, it’s pretty obvious Stannard has an agenda, he’s a “cultural materialist”, an offshoot of cultural Marxism. But you knew that, you just didn’t think I’d look 😉\n
          \n
          Anyway, with as far as I’ve gotten, I can surmise the sources, the majority of them at least, point to textbooks published by “Berkley; University of California press”. Seems a lot of anti-American sentiment comes out of Berkley. Just to appease my curiosity, I’m going to look deeper into this fellow, who, funny enough, cites his own works as well. That’s pretty douchey
          """
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2349
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        +body: """
          Ah, the internet…\n
          \n
          The phrase “That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), **but it’s still very different**” effectively translates to “Even though this happened, this is worse”.\n
          \n
          If you bothered to look at that list, you’ll note the mention of the California Genocide of 1846. Reported casualties between 9,492 and 16,094, with other estimates as high as 120,000. Absolutely fucking horrible and a black mark on American history indeed. However, there are 31 other genocides on that list that are higher in number, with three of those even happening prior to California-\n
          \n
          Dzungam 1755, 480,000-600,000 Taino 1492, 68,000-968,000 Albigensian 1209, 200,000-1,000,000\n
          \n
          I guess it depends on how you define “genocide”, but since Wikipedia is generally using the accepted definition, I feel pretty safe in going with what they say.\n
          \n
          And I did lay out proof, you’re just too caught up in whatever ideology to see it. Feel free to rebut, down vote, cry or whatever makes you feel better, but my point was the world is a horrible place, and terrible things happen to all kinds of groups of people. The “meme” that started all this IS a cherry picked reference to people who were wronged (I’m not disputing they were wronged, but so were… insert any other group of people here). Throughout history, most civilizations are founded on the conquering of another. As horrible as that is, it’s a fact. And after the fact, many of the remaining conqured are treated horribly. Also a fact.\n
          \n
          Lay out some real numbers, cite an authoritative source (sources) and then we can talk. Until then, I hope the best for you and really wish we could get past this bickering bullshit. Life is too short, and trying to pin the sins of one’s father on the current generation isn’t solving shit. Work toward bettering peoples lives without having to exact revenge from people who didn’t have fuck all to do with it.
          """
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
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        +body: "And it’s written by a person, with an agenda and bias just like everyone else. Have a tough time taking anything seriously from someone affiliated with Ward Churchill."
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      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2224 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "Citing one book by someone with a clear agenda isn’t a good look either. You picked the fight, feel free to drop it at your leisure."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-10-11 22:01:33.0 +02:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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        -id: 41925
        -bodyTs: "'agenda':9 'book':3 'cite':1 'clear':8 'drop':23 'either':15 'feel':20 'fight':19 'free':21 'good':13 'isn':10 'leisur':27 'look':14 'one':2 'pick':17 'someon':5"
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          date: 2023-10-11 22:01:33.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41925
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "I agree with your points, and yes it’s a better perspective, however, that’s not the world we’re living in. There are some who are hell bent on wiping out continents of people due to any number of reasons ranging from beliefs to the exploitation of natural resources merely for financial gain. I really wish we did live in a world where the word “nuclear” invoked thoughts of clean(er), abundant and cheaper energy vs it invoking dread at the prospect of total annihilation."
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          date: 2023-10-11 13:43:35.0 +02:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works"
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          date: 2023-10-11 13:43:35.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41306
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2254
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2250 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +body: """
          Oh wait, my fault. I was responding to your comment “**We are still here**”\n
          \n
          Wasn’t sure which part of my anaolgy you weren’t getting. Now we can peacefully argue about that instead.\n
          \n
          **EDITED FOR TYPO
          """
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          date: 2023-10-12 20:52:28.0 +02:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        -id: 43749
        -bodyTs: "'anaolgi':22 'argu':31 'comment':10 'edit':35 'fault':4 'get':26 'instead':34 'oh':1 'part':19 'peac':30 'respond':7 'still':13 'sure':17 'typo':37 'wait':2 'wasn':15 'weren':24"
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        +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/comment/4361340"
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          date: 2023-10-12 21:23:04.0 +02:00
        }
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          date: 2023-10-12 20:52:28.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 43749
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2189
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: """
          You don’t have to apologize to me. If he’s someone who would collaborate with Ward Churchill, he’s got a clear agenda. My source for that was looking him up on Wikipedia, as I had no clue who he was. I’m not going to do the effort of sending you a direct link to the article, so feel free to do it yourself. And grant us all the fact that someone who writes a book has an implied agenda to sell the book.\n
          \n
          And every time you start a post with “Source?”, it’s a bad look.
          """
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          date: 2023-10-12 00:17:28.0 +02:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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        -id: 42135
        -bodyTs: "'agenda':24,82 'apolog':6 'articl':59 'bad':99 'book':78,86 'churchil':18 'clear':23 'clue':39 'collabor':15 'direct':55 'effort':50 'everi':88 'fact':72 'feel':61 'free':62 'go':46 'got':21 'grant':68 'impli':81 'link':56 'look':30,100 'm':44 'post':93 'sell':84 'send':52 'someon':12,74 'sourc':26,95 'start':91 'time':89 'us':69 'ward':17 'wikipedia':34 'would':14 'write':76"
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          date: 2023-10-12 00:17:28.0 +02:00
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      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "While I mostly agree, I never said constant war, but where I will disagree in a sense is, the prospect of total annihilation would have been a factor millennia ago had the technology been there. Pick your era, the Romans, the various Chinese dynasties, the English, etc… if they had the means, they would have likely used it, having zero regard for the impact it would have later, mostly due to a poor understanding of the technology. I do believe, at least between “the big three”, meaning the US, Russia and China, nuclear war is an extremely potent deterrent to all out war. It’s the “kids who want to be in the club” that worry me, everyone from NK to Israel. It sucks, but the atomic cat is out of the bag in a world we’re all forced to live in, and the polarization of politics and other bullshit only work to drive that wedge deeper and push us closer to… bad shit."
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          "@ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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          date: 2023-10-10 22:52:49.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 40641
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: """
          As I’m too stupid and it’s to early for me to do these inline…\n
          \n
          Your 1st point, here’s one, had to scroll about 1/8 down the page for. Granted it doesn’t explicitly say it was “okay”, the point stands:\n
          \n
          > “China/Russia/Europe are largely inhabited by people whose ancestry traces back 1000s of years to the same region. That’s very different from North America, where most natives where killed (either through disease or “policy”).\n
          \n
          > That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), but it’s still very different.”\n
          \n
          As you also wanted to be pointed to a source for genocides on the same or larger scale throughout history, allow me to search Wikipedia for you:\n
          \n
          [en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides)\n
          \n
          As to point 3, who exactly determines who is responsible and who will benefit from this paln to raise up America’s indigenous population to their proper station? Are 1st generation immigrants from Ghana going to be required to pay up? How about Natives who’s ancestry dates back to a tribe that exterminated another tribe? Surely that should also qualify as genocide?\n
          \n
          And as to point 4, we, in the west, as I did point out I was American, are in a (**relatively**) peaceful time, which implies that throughout history it has not been, but I guess I need to spell it out for some people.\n
          \n
          At the end of the day, you’re not looking to be enlightened or to learn anything, your post was directed to completely discount my points, or to “*troll*” I will admit I was getting heated reading some of the off the wall bullshit I was seeing, but superlatives aside, I stand by everything I’ve posted. I apologize if you TRULY didn’t know about other genocides, or if your worldview has jaded you to the point where you don’t initially see posts that clearly illustrate what I said, at least in the abstract, and you took the time to go back and reread them and allow it to sink in.\n
          \n
          Feel free to pick apart this post, too. Nothing is more entertaining in a meme thread than for 2 idiots, myself included, to argue about genocide.🙂
          """
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          date: 2023-10-11 14:10:25.0 +02:00
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      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2204
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2200 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +body: "Oversimplifing an empire being overthrown. Seems legit."
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2023-10-12 18:39:26.0 +02:00
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          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        -bodyTs: "'empir':3 'legit':7 'oversimplif':1 'overthrown':5 'seem':6"
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          date: 2023-10-12 18:39:26.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 43459
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2281
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "It’ll be a while before I can read further but I do intend to read all of it. In my biased opinion so far, i reads like a propaganda piece, the words seleceted in some of the passages are used to elicit a response, but maybe I’ll see differently as I continue. I do have a question, when you say “genocide”, are you also including open conflicts? It’s my understanding of the word that it would not, but I want to make sure, especially when numbers are involved, that we’re using the same metrics."
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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        -id: 43093
        -bodyTs: "'also':66 'bias':22 'conflict':69 'continu':54 'differ':51 'elicit':43 'especi':87 'far':25 'genocid':63 'includ':67 'intend':14 'involv':91 'like':28 'll':2,49 'make':85 'mayb':47 'metric':98 'number':89 'open':68 'opinion':23 'passag':39 'piec':31 'propaganda':30 'question':59 're':94 'read':9,16,27 'respons':45 'say':62 'see':50 'selecet':34 'sure':86 'understand':73 'use':41,95 'want':83 'word':33,76 'would':79"
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        +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/comment/4352097"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697118368 {#2295
          date: 2023-10-12 15:46:08.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 43093
      }
      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2263
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: """
          People. On a land mass. Wiped out. People. On a land mass. Wiped out.\n
          \n
          Yeah, I guess I see your point.
          """
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
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        +body: "You too buddy! Would enjoy having rational conversations, even note elsewhere in this thread that I’m taking the time to read American Holocaust, as I told myself “why should I ask someone to do something I’m not willing to do myself?” Granted, being close to 50 years old, it likely won’t change my mind, but I reason that if I do read this book, maybe I can better understand other’s worldview, and maybe, just maybe we can have civil conversations instead of the stupid fucking bickering that’s been going on in a… wait for it… meme thread!"
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        +body: "Oh, I stand corrected. A link to a Google doc. Should probably submit that to the Wikipedia article I linked as clearly thier information is flawed. You win an internet today."
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
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        +body: "Explain. How is it a false equivalent? Romans controlled the city / region for over a thousand years and were later conqured, and their land stolen, to use the vernacular of this thread."
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            For fucks sake… 1st off, whether or not this qualifies as a “meme”, it doesn’t fit the accepted norm of what most people expect to see when they click on “memes”\n
            \n
            Secondly, and this may sting a little, but peace as we know it is a relatively new thing in world history. I’ve seen a multitude of other comments here proclaiming all those other genocides were okay because they were thousands of years ago. It’s that “in my lifetime” mentality that just fucking grinds my gears. Through thousands of years of history, one genocide is cherry picked and held up as the worst ever, and the citizens who"benefitted" from it are supposed to pick up the tab? My ancestors weren’t Spanish or English, and my family has been here for about 130 years having come from Germany in 1890. How much of the tab am I supposed to pick up?\n
            \n
            Fact of the matter is, the only constant in human history is war. We’re in a (relatively) peaceful era now, and that’s taking into account Ukraine/Russia, Israel/Palestine, and probably another 20 or 30 wars I’m not up to speed on because I’m American and our media doesn’t seem to actually inform us on world events from countries we don’t buy shit from.
            """
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          Ah, the internet…\n
          \n
          The phrase “That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), **but it’s still very different**” effectively translates to “Even though this happened, this is worse”.\n
          \n
          If you bothered to look at that list, you’ll note the mention of the California Genocide of 1846. Reported casualties between 9,492 and 16,094, with other estimates as high as 120,000. Absolutely fucking horrible and a black mark on American history indeed. However, there are 31 other genocides on that list that are higher in number, with three of those even happening prior to California-\n
          \n
          Dzungam 1755, 480,000-600,000 Taino 1492, 68,000-968,000 Albigensian 1209, 200,000-1,000,000\n
          \n
          I guess it depends on how you define “genocide”, but since Wikipedia is generally using the accepted definition, I feel pretty safe in going with what they say.\n
          \n
          And I did lay out proof, you’re just too caught up in whatever ideology to see it. Feel free to rebut, down vote, cry or whatever makes you feel better, but my point was the world is a horrible place, and terrible things happen to all kinds of groups of people. The “meme” that started all this IS a cherry picked reference to people who were wronged (I’m not disputing they were wronged, but so were… insert any other group of people here). Throughout history, most civilizations are founded on the conquering of another. As horrible as that is, it’s a fact. And after the fact, many of the remaining conqured are treated horribly. Also a fact.\n
          \n
          Lay out some real numbers, cite an authoritative source (sources) and then we can talk. Until then, I hope the best for you and really wish we could get past this bickering bullshit. Life is too short, and trying to pin the sins of one’s father on the current generation isn’t solving shit. Work toward bettering peoples lives without having to exact revenge from people who didn’t have fuck all to do with it.
          """
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        +body: "And it’s written by a person, with an agenda and bias just like everyone else. Have a tough time taking anything seriously from someone affiliated with Ward Churchill."
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        +body: "Citing one book by someone with a clear agenda isn’t a good look either. You picked the fight, feel free to drop it at your leisure."
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          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
        ]
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        -id: 41925
        -bodyTs: "'agenda':9 'book':3 'cite':1 'clear':8 'drop':23 'either':15 'feel':20 'fight':19 'free':21 'good':13 'isn':10 'leisur':27 'look':14 'one':2 'pick':17 'someon':5"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-10-11 22:01:33.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41925
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2022 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "I agree with your points, and yes it’s a better perspective, however, that’s not the world we’re living in. There are some who are hell bent on wiping out continents of people due to any number of reasons ranging from beliefs to the exploitation of natural resources merely for financial gain. I really wish we did live in a world where the word “nuclear” invoked thoughts of clean(er), abundant and cheaper energy vs it invoking dread at the prospect of total annihilation."
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2023-10-11 13:43:35.0 +02:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        -id: 41306
        -bodyTs: "'abund':73 'agre':2 'annihil':86 'belief':44 'bent':29 'better':11 'cheaper':75 'clean':71 'contin':33 'dread':80 'due':36 'energi':76 'er':72 'exploit':47 'financi':53 'gain':54 'hell':28 'howev':13 'invok':68,79 'live':21,60 'mere':51 'natur':49 'nuclear':67 'number':39 'peopl':35 'perspect':12 'point':5 'prospect':83 'rang':42 're':20 'realli':56 'reason':41 'resourc':50 'thought':69 'total':85 'vs':77 'wipe':31 'wish':57 'word':66 'world':18,63 'yes':7"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-10-11 13:43:35.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41306
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2254
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2250 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +body: """
          Oh wait, my fault. I was responding to your comment “**We are still here**”\n
          \n
          Wasn’t sure which part of my anaolgy you weren’t getting. Now we can peacefully argue about that instead.\n
          \n
          **EDITED FOR TYPO
          """
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          date: 2023-10-12 20:52:28.0 +02:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        -id: 43749
        -bodyTs: "'anaolgi':22 'argu':31 'comment':10 'edit':35 'fault':4 'get':26 'instead':34 'oh':1 'part':19 'peac':30 'respond':7 'still':13 'sure':17 'typo':37 'wait':2 'wasn':15 'weren':24"
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        +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/comment/4361340"
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          date: 2023-10-12 21:23:04.0 +02:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697136748 {#2244
          date: 2023-10-12 20:52:28.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 43749
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2189
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2299 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: """
          You don’t have to apologize to me. If he’s someone who would collaborate with Ward Churchill, he’s got a clear agenda. My source for that was looking him up on Wikipedia, as I had no clue who he was. I’m not going to do the effort of sending you a direct link to the article, so feel free to do it yourself. And grant us all the fact that someone who writes a book has an implied agenda to sell the book.\n
          \n
          And every time you start a post with “Source?”, it’s a bad look.
          """
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        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-10-12 00:17:28.0 +02:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
        ]
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        -id: 42135
        -bodyTs: "'agenda':24,82 'apolog':6 'articl':59 'bad':99 'book':78,86 'churchil':18 'clear':23 'clue':39 'collabor':15 'direct':55 'effort':50 'everi':88 'fact':72 'feel':61 'free':62 'go':46 'got':21 'grant':68 'impli':81 'link':56 'look':30,100 'm':44 'post':93 'sell':84 'send':52 'someon':12,74 'sourc':26,95 'start':91 'time':89 'us':69 'ward':17 'wikipedia':34 'would':14 'write':76"
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        +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/comment/4331392"
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          date: 2023-10-12 00:17:28.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 42135
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1402 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "While I mostly agree, I never said constant war, but where I will disagree in a sense is, the prospect of total annihilation would have been a factor millennia ago had the technology been there. Pick your era, the Romans, the various Chinese dynasties, the English, etc… if they had the means, they would have likely used it, having zero regard for the impact it would have later, mostly due to a poor understanding of the technology. I do believe, at least between “the big three”, meaning the US, Russia and China, nuclear war is an extremely potent deterrent to all out war. It’s the “kids who want to be in the club” that worry me, everyone from NK to Israel. It sucks, but the atomic cat is out of the bag in a world we’re all forced to live in, and the polarization of politics and other bullshit only work to drive that wedge deeper and push us closer to… bad shit."
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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          date: 2023-10-10 22:52:49.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 40641
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: """
          As I’m too stupid and it’s to early for me to do these inline…\n
          \n
          Your 1st point, here’s one, had to scroll about 1/8 down the page for. Granted it doesn’t explicitly say it was “okay”, the point stands:\n
          \n
          > “China/Russia/Europe are largely inhabited by people whose ancestry traces back 1000s of years to the same region. That’s very different from North America, where most natives where killed (either through disease or “policy”).\n
          \n
          > That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), but it’s still very different.”\n
          \n
          As you also wanted to be pointed to a source for genocides on the same or larger scale throughout history, allow me to search Wikipedia for you:\n
          \n
          [en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides)\n
          \n
          As to point 3, who exactly determines who is responsible and who will benefit from this paln to raise up America’s indigenous population to their proper station? Are 1st generation immigrants from Ghana going to be required to pay up? How about Natives who’s ancestry dates back to a tribe that exterminated another tribe? Surely that should also qualify as genocide?\n
          \n
          And as to point 4, we, in the west, as I did point out I was American, are in a (**relatively**) peaceful time, which implies that throughout history it has not been, but I guess I need to spell it out for some people.\n
          \n
          At the end of the day, you’re not looking to be enlightened or to learn anything, your post was directed to completely discount my points, or to “*troll*” I will admit I was getting heated reading some of the off the wall bullshit I was seeing, but superlatives aside, I stand by everything I’ve posted. I apologize if you TRULY didn’t know about other genocides, or if your worldview has jaded you to the point where you don’t initially see posts that clearly illustrate what I said, at least in the abstract, and you took the time to go back and reread them and allow it to sink in.\n
          \n
          Feel free to pick apart this post, too. Nothing is more entertaining in a meme thread than for 2 idiots, myself included, to argue about genocide.🙂
          """
        +lang: "en"
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697026225 {#2036
          date: 2023-10-11 14:10:25.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41323
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2204
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2200 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +body: "Oversimplifing an empire being overthrown. Seems legit."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
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        +lastActive: DateTime @1697128766 {#2208
          date: 2023-10-12 18:39:26.0 +02:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        -id: 43459
        -bodyTs: "'empir':3 'legit':7 'oversimplif':1 'overthrown':5 'seem':6"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697128766 {#2209
          date: 2023-10-12 18:39:26.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 43459
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2281
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2283 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "It’ll be a while before I can read further but I do intend to read all of it. In my biased opinion so far, i reads like a propaganda piece, the words seleceted in some of the passages are used to elicit a response, but maybe I’ll see differently as I continue. I do have a question, when you say “genocide”, are you also including open conflicts? It’s my understanding of the word that it would not, but I want to make sure, especially when numbers are involved, that we’re using the same metrics."
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          date: 2023-10-12 15:46:08.0 +02:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
        ]
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        -id: 43093
        -bodyTs: "'also':66 'bias':22 'conflict':69 'continu':54 'differ':51 'elicit':43 'especi':87 'far':25 'genocid':63 'includ':67 'intend':14 'involv':91 'like':28 'll':2,49 'make':85 'mayb':47 'metric':98 'number':89 'open':68 'opinion':23 'passag':39 'piec':31 'propaganda':30 'question':59 're':94 'read':9,16,27 'respons':45 'say':62 'see':50 'selecet':34 'sure':86 'understand':73 'use':41,95 'want':83 'word':33,76 'would':79"
        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/comment/4352097"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697118368 {#2295
          date: 2023-10-12 15:46:08.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 43093
      }
      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2263
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: """
          People. On a land mass. Wiped out. People. On a land mass. Wiped out.\n
          \n
          Yeah, I guess I see your point.
          """
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          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
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      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
      16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2034
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        +body: "You too buddy! Would enjoy having rational conversations, even note elsewhere in this thread that I’m taking the time to read American Holocaust, as I told myself “why should I ask someone to do something I’m not willing to do myself?” Granted, being close to 50 years old, it likely won’t change my mind, but I reason that if I do read this book, maybe I can better understand other’s worldview, and maybe, just maybe we can have civil conversations instead of the stupid fucking bickering that’s been going on in a… wait for it… meme thread!"
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        +body: "Oh, I stand corrected. A link to a Google doc. Should probably submit that to the Wikipedia article I linked as clearly thier information is flawed. You win an internet today."
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     …2
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  +body: """
    Clever.\n
    \n
    I’m going through the sourced materials in the American Holocaust book, (great title, by the way! not divisive at all!), and considering the sources, it’s pretty obvious Stannard has an agenda, he’s a “cultural materialist”, an offshoot of cultural Marxism. But you knew that, you just didn’t think I’d look 😉\n
    \n
    Anyway, with as far as I’ve gotten, I can surmise the sources, the majority of them at least, point to textbooks published by “Berkley; University of California press”. Seems a lot of anti-American sentiment comes out of Berkley. Just to appease my curiosity, I’m going to look deeper into this fellow, who, funny enough, cites his own works as well. That’s pretty douchey
    """
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2307
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2196
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        +body: "Explain. How is it a false equivalent? Romans controlled the city / region for over a thousand years and were later conqured, and their land stolen, to use the vernacular of this thread."
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        +body: "So by that logic, the Turks should give Constantinople back to the Romans?"
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            For fucks sake… 1st off, whether or not this qualifies as a “meme”, it doesn’t fit the accepted norm of what most people expect to see when they click on “memes”\n
            \n
            Secondly, and this may sting a little, but peace as we know it is a relatively new thing in world history. I’ve seen a multitude of other comments here proclaiming all those other genocides were okay because they were thousands of years ago. It’s that “in my lifetime” mentality that just fucking grinds my gears. Through thousands of years of history, one genocide is cherry picked and held up as the worst ever, and the citizens who"benefitted" from it are supposed to pick up the tab? My ancestors weren’t Spanish or English, and my family has been here for about 130 years having come from Germany in 1890. How much of the tab am I supposed to pick up?\n
            \n
            Fact of the matter is, the only constant in human history is war. We’re in a (relatively) peaceful era now, and that’s taking into account Ukraine/Russia, Israel/Palestine, and probably another 20 or 30 wars I’m not up to speed on because I’m American and our media doesn’t seem to actually inform us on world events from countries we don’t buy shit from.
            """
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        +body: """
          Ah, the internet…\n
          \n
          The phrase “That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), **but it’s still very different**” effectively translates to “Even though this happened, this is worse”.\n
          \n
          If you bothered to look at that list, you’ll note the mention of the California Genocide of 1846. Reported casualties between 9,492 and 16,094, with other estimates as high as 120,000. Absolutely fucking horrible and a black mark on American history indeed. However, there are 31 other genocides on that list that are higher in number, with three of those even happening prior to California-\n
          \n
          Dzungam 1755, 480,000-600,000 Taino 1492, 68,000-968,000 Albigensian 1209, 200,000-1,000,000\n
          \n
          I guess it depends on how you define “genocide”, but since Wikipedia is generally using the accepted definition, I feel pretty safe in going with what they say.\n
          \n
          And I did lay out proof, you’re just too caught up in whatever ideology to see it. Feel free to rebut, down vote, cry or whatever makes you feel better, but my point was the world is a horrible place, and terrible things happen to all kinds of groups of people. The “meme” that started all this IS a cherry picked reference to people who were wronged (I’m not disputing they were wronged, but so were… insert any other group of people here). Throughout history, most civilizations are founded on the conquering of another. As horrible as that is, it’s a fact. And after the fact, many of the remaining conqured are treated horribly. Also a fact.\n
          \n
          Lay out some real numbers, cite an authoritative source (sources) and then we can talk. Until then, I hope the best for you and really wish we could get past this bickering bullshit. Life is too short, and trying to pin the sins of one’s father on the current generation isn’t solving shit. Work toward bettering peoples lives without having to exact revenge from people who didn’t have fuck all to do with it.
          """
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        +body: "And it’s written by a person, with an agenda and bias just like everyone else. Have a tough time taking anything seriously from someone affiliated with Ward Churchill."
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        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2224 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "Citing one book by someone with a clear agenda isn’t a good look either. You picked the fight, feel free to drop it at your leisure."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-10-11 22:01:33.0 +02:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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        -id: 41925
        -bodyTs: "'agenda':9 'book':3 'cite':1 'clear':8 'drop':23 'either':15 'feel':20 'fight':19 'free':21 'good':13 'isn':10 'leisur':27 'look':14 'one':2 'pick':17 'someon':5"
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          date: 2023-10-11 22:01:33.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41925
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "I agree with your points, and yes it’s a better perspective, however, that’s not the world we’re living in. There are some who are hell bent on wiping out continents of people due to any number of reasons ranging from beliefs to the exploitation of natural resources merely for financial gain. I really wish we did live in a world where the word “nuclear” invoked thoughts of clean(er), abundant and cheaper energy vs it invoking dread at the prospect of total annihilation."
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          date: 2023-10-11 13:43:35.0 +02:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works"
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          date: 2023-10-11 13:43:35.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41306
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2254
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2250 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +body: """
          Oh wait, my fault. I was responding to your comment “**We are still here**”\n
          \n
          Wasn’t sure which part of my anaolgy you weren’t getting. Now we can peacefully argue about that instead.\n
          \n
          **EDITED FOR TYPO
          """
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          date: 2023-10-12 20:52:28.0 +02:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        -id: 43749
        -bodyTs: "'anaolgi':22 'argu':31 'comment':10 'edit':35 'fault':4 'get':26 'instead':34 'oh':1 'part':19 'peac':30 'respond':7 'still':13 'sure':17 'typo':37 'wait':2 'wasn':15 'weren':24"
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        +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/comment/4361340"
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          date: 2023-10-12 21:23:04.0 +02:00
        }
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          date: 2023-10-12 20:52:28.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 43749
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2189
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: """
          You don’t have to apologize to me. If he’s someone who would collaborate with Ward Churchill, he’s got a clear agenda. My source for that was looking him up on Wikipedia, as I had no clue who he was. I’m not going to do the effort of sending you a direct link to the article, so feel free to do it yourself. And grant us all the fact that someone who writes a book has an implied agenda to sell the book.\n
          \n
          And every time you start a post with “Source?”, it’s a bad look.
          """
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          date: 2023-10-12 00:17:28.0 +02:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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        -id: 42135
        -bodyTs: "'agenda':24,82 'apolog':6 'articl':59 'bad':99 'book':78,86 'churchil':18 'clear':23 'clue':39 'collabor':15 'direct':55 'effort':50 'everi':88 'fact':72 'feel':61 'free':62 'go':46 'got':21 'grant':68 'impli':81 'link':56 'look':30,100 'm':44 'post':93 'sell':84 'send':52 'someon':12,74 'sourc':26,95 'start':91 'time':89 'us':69 'ward':17 'wikipedia':34 'would':14 'write':76"
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          date: 2023-10-12 00:17:28.0 +02:00
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      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "While I mostly agree, I never said constant war, but where I will disagree in a sense is, the prospect of total annihilation would have been a factor millennia ago had the technology been there. Pick your era, the Romans, the various Chinese dynasties, the English, etc… if they had the means, they would have likely used it, having zero regard for the impact it would have later, mostly due to a poor understanding of the technology. I do believe, at least between “the big three”, meaning the US, Russia and China, nuclear war is an extremely potent deterrent to all out war. It’s the “kids who want to be in the club” that worry me, everyone from NK to Israel. It sucks, but the atomic cat is out of the bag in a world we’re all forced to live in, and the polarization of politics and other bullshit only work to drive that wedge deeper and push us closer to… bad shit."
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          "@ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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          date: 2023-10-10 22:52:49.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 40641
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: """
          As I’m too stupid and it’s to early for me to do these inline…\n
          \n
          Your 1st point, here’s one, had to scroll about 1/8 down the page for. Granted it doesn’t explicitly say it was “okay”, the point stands:\n
          \n
          > “China/Russia/Europe are largely inhabited by people whose ancestry traces back 1000s of years to the same region. That’s very different from North America, where most natives where killed (either through disease or “policy”).\n
          \n
          > That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), but it’s still very different.”\n
          \n
          As you also wanted to be pointed to a source for genocides on the same or larger scale throughout history, allow me to search Wikipedia for you:\n
          \n
          [en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides)\n
          \n
          As to point 3, who exactly determines who is responsible and who will benefit from this paln to raise up America’s indigenous population to their proper station? Are 1st generation immigrants from Ghana going to be required to pay up? How about Natives who’s ancestry dates back to a tribe that exterminated another tribe? Surely that should also qualify as genocide?\n
          \n
          And as to point 4, we, in the west, as I did point out I was American, are in a (**relatively**) peaceful time, which implies that throughout history it has not been, but I guess I need to spell it out for some people.\n
          \n
          At the end of the day, you’re not looking to be enlightened or to learn anything, your post was directed to completely discount my points, or to “*troll*” I will admit I was getting heated reading some of the off the wall bullshit I was seeing, but superlatives aside, I stand by everything I’ve posted. I apologize if you TRULY didn’t know about other genocides, or if your worldview has jaded you to the point where you don’t initially see posts that clearly illustrate what I said, at least in the abstract, and you took the time to go back and reread them and allow it to sink in.\n
          \n
          Feel free to pick apart this post, too. Nothing is more entertaining in a meme thread than for 2 idiots, myself included, to argue about genocide.🙂
          """
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          date: 2023-10-11 14:10:25.0 +02:00
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      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2204
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2200 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +body: "Oversimplifing an empire being overthrown. Seems legit."
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2023-10-12 18:39:26.0 +02:00
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          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        -bodyTs: "'empir':3 'legit':7 'oversimplif':1 'overthrown':5 'seem':6"
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          date: 2023-10-12 18:39:26.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 43459
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2281
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "It’ll be a while before I can read further but I do intend to read all of it. In my biased opinion so far, i reads like a propaganda piece, the words seleceted in some of the passages are used to elicit a response, but maybe I’ll see differently as I continue. I do have a question, when you say “genocide”, are you also including open conflicts? It’s my understanding of the word that it would not, but I want to make sure, especially when numbers are involved, that we’re using the same metrics."
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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        -id: 43093
        -bodyTs: "'also':66 'bias':22 'conflict':69 'continu':54 'differ':51 'elicit':43 'especi':87 'far':25 'genocid':63 'includ':67 'intend':14 'involv':91 'like':28 'll':2,49 'make':85 'mayb':47 'metric':98 'number':89 'open':68 'opinion':23 'passag':39 'piec':31 'propaganda':30 'question':59 're':94 'read':9,16,27 'respons':45 'say':62 'see':50 'selecet':34 'sure':86 'understand':73 'use':41,95 'want':83 'word':33,76 'would':79"
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        +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/comment/4352097"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697118368 {#2295
          date: 2023-10-12 15:46:08.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 43093
      }
      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2263
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: """
          People. On a land mass. Wiped out. People. On a land mass. Wiped out.\n
          \n
          Yeah, I guess I see your point.
          """
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
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        +body: "You too buddy! Would enjoy having rational conversations, even note elsewhere in this thread that I’m taking the time to read American Holocaust, as I told myself “why should I ask someone to do something I’m not willing to do myself?” Granted, being close to 50 years old, it likely won’t change my mind, but I reason that if I do read this book, maybe I can better understand other’s worldview, and maybe, just maybe we can have civil conversations instead of the stupid fucking bickering that’s been going on in a… wait for it… meme thread!"
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        +body: "Oh, I stand corrected. A link to a Google doc. Should probably submit that to the Wikipedia article I linked as clearly thier information is flawed. You win an internet today."
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     …2
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  +body: """
    Clever.\n
    \n
    I’m going through the sourced materials in the American Holocaust book, (great title, by the way! not divisive at all!), and considering the sources, it’s pretty obvious Stannard has an agenda, he’s a “cultural materialist”, an offshoot of cultural Marxism. But you knew that, you just didn’t think I’d look 😉\n
    \n
    Anyway, with as far as I’ve gotten, I can surmise the sources, the majority of them at least, point to textbooks published by “Berkley; University of California press”. Seems a lot of anti-American sentiment comes out of Berkley. Just to appease my curiosity, I’m going to look deeper into this fellow, who, funny enough, cites his own works as well. That’s pretty douchey
    """
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2196
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        +body: "Explain. How is it a false equivalent? Romans controlled the city / region for over a thousand years and were later conqured, and their land stolen, to use the vernacular of this thread."
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        +body: "So by that logic, the Turks should give Constantinople back to the Romans?"
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            For fucks sake… 1st off, whether or not this qualifies as a “meme”, it doesn’t fit the accepted norm of what most people expect to see when they click on “memes”\n
            \n
            Secondly, and this may sting a little, but peace as we know it is a relatively new thing in world history. I’ve seen a multitude of other comments here proclaiming all those other genocides were okay because they were thousands of years ago. It’s that “in my lifetime” mentality that just fucking grinds my gears. Through thousands of years of history, one genocide is cherry picked and held up as the worst ever, and the citizens who"benefitted" from it are supposed to pick up the tab? My ancestors weren’t Spanish or English, and my family has been here for about 130 years having come from Germany in 1890. How much of the tab am I supposed to pick up?\n
            \n
            Fact of the matter is, the only constant in human history is war. We’re in a (relatively) peaceful era now, and that’s taking into account Ukraine/Russia, Israel/Palestine, and probably another 20 or 30 wars I’m not up to speed on because I’m American and our media doesn’t seem to actually inform us on world events from countries we don’t buy shit from.
            """
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          Ah, the internet…\n
          \n
          The phrase “That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), **but it’s still very different**” effectively translates to “Even though this happened, this is worse”.\n
          \n
          If you bothered to look at that list, you’ll note the mention of the California Genocide of 1846. Reported casualties between 9,492 and 16,094, with other estimates as high as 120,000. Absolutely fucking horrible and a black mark on American history indeed. However, there are 31 other genocides on that list that are higher in number, with three of those even happening prior to California-\n
          \n
          Dzungam 1755, 480,000-600,000 Taino 1492, 68,000-968,000 Albigensian 1209, 200,000-1,000,000\n
          \n
          I guess it depends on how you define “genocide”, but since Wikipedia is generally using the accepted definition, I feel pretty safe in going with what they say.\n
          \n
          And I did lay out proof, you’re just too caught up in whatever ideology to see it. Feel free to rebut, down vote, cry or whatever makes you feel better, but my point was the world is a horrible place, and terrible things happen to all kinds of groups of people. The “meme” that started all this IS a cherry picked reference to people who were wronged (I’m not disputing they were wronged, but so were… insert any other group of people here). Throughout history, most civilizations are founded on the conquering of another. As horrible as that is, it’s a fact. And after the fact, many of the remaining conqured are treated horribly. Also a fact.\n
          \n
          Lay out some real numbers, cite an authoritative source (sources) and then we can talk. Until then, I hope the best for you and really wish we could get past this bickering bullshit. Life is too short, and trying to pin the sins of one’s father on the current generation isn’t solving shit. Work toward bettering peoples lives without having to exact revenge from people who didn’t have fuck all to do with it.
          """
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        +body: "And it’s written by a person, with an agenda and bias just like everyone else. Have a tough time taking anything seriously from someone affiliated with Ward Churchill."
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        +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/comment/4326785"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697053568 {#2122
          date: 2023-10-11 21:46:08.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41891
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2224 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "Citing one book by someone with a clear agenda isn’t a good look either. You picked the fight, feel free to drop it at your leisure."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-10-11 22:01:33.0 +02:00
        }
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
        ]
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        -id: 41925
        -bodyTs: "'agenda':9 'book':3 'cite':1 'clear':8 'drop':23 'either':15 'feel':20 'fight':19 'free':21 'good':13 'isn':10 'leisur':27 'look':14 'one':2 'pick':17 'someon':5"
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          date: 2023-10-11 22:01:33.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41925
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "I agree with your points, and yes it’s a better perspective, however, that’s not the world we’re living in. There are some who are hell bent on wiping out continents of people due to any number of reasons ranging from beliefs to the exploitation of natural resources merely for financial gain. I really wish we did live in a world where the word “nuclear” invoked thoughts of clean(er), abundant and cheaper energy vs it invoking dread at the prospect of total annihilation."
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          date: 2023-10-11 13:43:35.0 +02:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-10-11 13:43:35.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41306
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2254
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2250 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +body: """
          Oh wait, my fault. I was responding to your comment “**We are still here**”\n
          \n
          Wasn’t sure which part of my anaolgy you weren’t getting. Now we can peacefully argue about that instead.\n
          \n
          **EDITED FOR TYPO
          """
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          date: 2023-10-12 20:52:28.0 +02:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        -id: 43749
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        +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/comment/4361340"
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          date: 2023-10-12 21:23:04.0 +02:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697136748 {#2244
          date: 2023-10-12 20:52:28.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 43749
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2189
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: """
          You don’t have to apologize to me. If he’s someone who would collaborate with Ward Churchill, he’s got a clear agenda. My source for that was looking him up on Wikipedia, as I had no clue who he was. I’m not going to do the effort of sending you a direct link to the article, so feel free to do it yourself. And grant us all the fact that someone who writes a book has an implied agenda to sell the book.\n
          \n
          And every time you start a post with “Source?”, it’s a bad look.
          """
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          date: 2023-10-12 00:17:28.0 +02:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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        -id: 42135
        -bodyTs: "'agenda':24,82 'apolog':6 'articl':59 'bad':99 'book':78,86 'churchil':18 'clear':23 'clue':39 'collabor':15 'direct':55 'effort':50 'everi':88 'fact':72 'feel':61 'free':62 'go':46 'got':21 'grant':68 'impli':81 'link':56 'look':30,100 'm':44 'post':93 'sell':84 'send':52 'someon':12,74 'sourc':26,95 'start':91 'time':89 'us':69 'ward':17 'wikipedia':34 'would':14 'write':76"
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        +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/comment/4331392"
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          date: 2023-10-12 00:17:28.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 42135
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "While I mostly agree, I never said constant war, but where I will disagree in a sense is, the prospect of total annihilation would have been a factor millennia ago had the technology been there. Pick your era, the Romans, the various Chinese dynasties, the English, etc… if they had the means, they would have likely used it, having zero regard for the impact it would have later, mostly due to a poor understanding of the technology. I do believe, at least between “the big three”, meaning the US, Russia and China, nuclear war is an extremely potent deterrent to all out war. It’s the “kids who want to be in the club” that worry me, everyone from NK to Israel. It sucks, but the atomic cat is out of the bag in a world we’re all forced to live in, and the polarization of politics and other bullshit only work to drive that wedge deeper and push us closer to… bad shit."
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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          date: 2023-10-10 22:52:49.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 40641
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: """
          As I’m too stupid and it’s to early for me to do these inline…\n
          \n
          Your 1st point, here’s one, had to scroll about 1/8 down the page for. Granted it doesn’t explicitly say it was “okay”, the point stands:\n
          \n
          > “China/Russia/Europe are largely inhabited by people whose ancestry traces back 1000s of years to the same region. That’s very different from North America, where most natives where killed (either through disease or “policy”).\n
          \n
          > That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), but it’s still very different.”\n
          \n
          As you also wanted to be pointed to a source for genocides on the same or larger scale throughout history, allow me to search Wikipedia for you:\n
          \n
          [en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides)\n
          \n
          As to point 3, who exactly determines who is responsible and who will benefit from this paln to raise up America’s indigenous population to their proper station? Are 1st generation immigrants from Ghana going to be required to pay up? How about Natives who’s ancestry dates back to a tribe that exterminated another tribe? Surely that should also qualify as genocide?\n
          \n
          And as to point 4, we, in the west, as I did point out I was American, are in a (**relatively**) peaceful time, which implies that throughout history it has not been, but I guess I need to spell it out for some people.\n
          \n
          At the end of the day, you’re not looking to be enlightened or to learn anything, your post was directed to completely discount my points, or to “*troll*” I will admit I was getting heated reading some of the off the wall bullshit I was seeing, but superlatives aside, I stand by everything I’ve posted. I apologize if you TRULY didn’t know about other genocides, or if your worldview has jaded you to the point where you don’t initially see posts that clearly illustrate what I said, at least in the abstract, and you took the time to go back and reread them and allow it to sink in.\n
          \n
          Feel free to pick apart this post, too. Nothing is more entertaining in a meme thread than for 2 idiots, myself included, to argue about genocide.🙂
          """
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        +isAdult: false
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697026225 {#2036
          date: 2023-10-11 14:10:25.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 41323
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2204
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2200 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +body: "Oversimplifing an empire being overthrown. Seems legit."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-10-12 18:39:26.0 +02:00
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          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        -id: 43459
        -bodyTs: "'empir':3 'legit':7 'oversimplif':1 'overthrown':5 'seem':6"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697128766 {#2209
          date: 2023-10-12 18:39:26.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 43459
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2281
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "It’ll be a while before I can read further but I do intend to read all of it. In my biased opinion so far, i reads like a propaganda piece, the words seleceted in some of the passages are used to elicit a response, but maybe I’ll see differently as I continue. I do have a question, when you say “genocide”, are you also including open conflicts? It’s my understanding of the word that it would not, but I want to make sure, especially when numbers are involved, that we’re using the same metrics."
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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        -id: 43093
        -bodyTs: "'also':66 'bias':22 'conflict':69 'continu':54 'differ':51 'elicit':43 'especi':87 'far':25 'genocid':63 'includ':67 'intend':14 'involv':91 'like':28 'll':2,49 'make':85 'mayb':47 'metric':98 'number':89 'open':68 'opinion':23 'passag':39 'piec':31 'propaganda':30 'question':59 're':94 'read':9,16,27 'respons':45 'say':62 'see':50 'selecet':34 'sure':86 'understand':73 'use':41,95 'want':83 'word':33,76 'would':79"
        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/comment/4352097"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697118368 {#2295
          date: 2023-10-12 15:46:08.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 43093
      }
      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2263
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +body: """
          People. On a land mass. Wiped out. People. On a land mass. Wiped out.\n
          \n
          Yeah, I guess I see your point.
          """
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          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        -id: 43560
        -bodyTs: "'guess':17 'land':4,11 'mass':5,12 'peopl':1,8 'point':21 'see':19 'wipe':6,13 'yeah':15"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-10-12 19:25:03.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 43560
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      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
      16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2034
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "You too buddy! Would enjoy having rational conversations, even note elsewhere in this thread that I’m taking the time to read American Holocaust, as I told myself “why should I ask someone to do something I’m not willing to do myself?” Granted, being close to 50 years old, it likely won’t change my mind, but I reason that if I do read this book, maybe I can better understand other’s worldview, and maybe, just maybe we can have civil conversations instead of the stupid fucking bickering that’s been going on in a… wait for it… meme thread!"
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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          date: 2023-10-12 22:21:54.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 43916
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +image: null
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "Oh, I stand corrected. A link to a Google doc. Should probably submit that to the Wikipedia article I linked as clearly thier information is flawed. You win an internet today."
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    ]
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      date: 2023-10-09 13:23:41.0 +02:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
  +image: null
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  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
  +body: """
    Clever.\n
    \n
    I’m going through the sourced materials in the American Holocaust book, (great title, by the way! not divisive at all!), and considering the sources, it’s pretty obvious Stannard has an agenda, he’s a “cultural materialist”, an offshoot of cultural Marxism. But you knew that, you just didn’t think I’d look 😉\n
    \n
    Anyway, with as far as I’ve gotten, I can surmise the sources, the majority of them at least, point to textbooks published by “Berkley; University of California press”. Seems a lot of anti-American sentiment comes out of Berkley. Just to appease my curiosity, I’m going to look deeper into this fellow, who, funny enough, cites his own works as well. That’s pretty douchey
    """
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    "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
    "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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  +"title": 42180
}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2349
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    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2738 …}
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    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2751 …}
    +slug: "History"
    +title: "History"
    +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/be2234f5-922c-44d7-a193-c11380bdfa00.jpeg"
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    +children: [
      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2196
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +body: "Explain. How is it a false equivalent? Romans controlled the city / region for over a thousand years and were later conqured, and their land stolen, to use the vernacular of this thread."
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2324
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "So by that logic, the Turks should give Constantinople back to the Romans?"
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      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2307
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2306 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410
          +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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          +body: """
            For fucks sake… 1st off, whether or not this qualifies as a “meme”, it doesn’t fit the accepted norm of what most people expect to see when they click on “memes”\n
            \n
            Secondly, and this may sting a little, but peace as we know it is a relatively new thing in world history. I’ve seen a multitude of other comments here proclaiming all those other genocides were okay because they were thousands of years ago. It’s that “in my lifetime” mentality that just fucking grinds my gears. Through thousands of years of history, one genocide is cherry picked and held up as the worst ever, and the citizens who"benefitted" from it are supposed to pick up the tab? My ancestors weren’t Spanish or English, and my family has been here for about 130 years having come from Germany in 1890. How much of the tab am I supposed to pick up?\n
            \n
            Fact of the matter is, the only constant in human history is war. We’re in a (relatively) peaceful era now, and that’s taking into account Ukraine/Russia, Israel/Palestine, and probably another 20 or 30 wars I’m not up to speed on because I’m American and our media doesn’t seem to actually inform us on world events from countries we don’t buy shit from.
            """
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        +body: """
          Clever.\n
          \n
          I’m going through the sourced materials in the American Holocaust book, (great title, by the way! not divisive at all!), and considering the sources, it’s pretty obvious Stannard has an agenda, he’s a “cultural materialist”, an offshoot of cultural Marxism. But you knew that, you just didn’t think I’d look 😉\n
          \n
          Anyway, with as far as I’ve gotten, I can surmise the sources, the majority of them at least, point to textbooks published by “Berkley; University of California press”. Seems a lot of anti-American sentiment comes out of Berkley. Just to appease my curiosity, I’m going to look deeper into this fellow, who, funny enough, cites his own works as well. That’s pretty douchey
          """
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2308 …}
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        -id: 42180
        -bodyTs: "'agenda':34 'american':11,92 'anti':91 'anti-american':90 'anyway':57 'appeas':100 'berkley':81,97 'book':13 'california':84 'cite':115 'clever':1 'come':94 'consid':24 'cultur':38,43 'curios':102 'd':55 'deeper':108 'didn':51 'divis':20 'douchey':124 'enough':114 'far':60 'fellow':111 'funni':113 'go':4,105 'gotten':64 'great':14 'holocaust':12 'knew':47 'least':75 'look':56,107 'lot':88 'm':3,104 'major':71 'marxism':44 'materi':8 'materialist':39 'obvious':30 'offshoot':41 'point':76 'press':85 'pretti':29,123 'publish':79 'seem':86 'sentiment':93 'sourc':7,26,69 'stannard':31 'surmis':67 'textbook':78 'think':53 'titl':15 'univers':82 've':63 'way':18 'well':120 'work':118"
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      }
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2349}
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2113 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "And it’s written by a person, with an agenda and bias just like everyone else. Have a tough time taking anything seriously from someone affiliated with Ward Churchill."
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      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "Citing one book by someone with a clear agenda isn’t a good look either. You picked the fight, feel free to drop it at your leisure."
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          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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        -id: 41925
        -bodyTs: "'agenda':9 'book':3 'cite':1 'clear':8 'drop':23 'either':15 'feel':20 'fight':19 'free':21 'good':13 'isn':10 'leisur':27 'look':14 'one':2 'pick':17 'someon':5"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-10-11 22:01:33.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41925
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "I agree with your points, and yes it’s a better perspective, however, that’s not the world we’re living in. There are some who are hell bent on wiping out continents of people due to any number of reasons ranging from beliefs to the exploitation of natural resources merely for financial gain. I really wish we did live in a world where the word “nuclear” invoked thoughts of clean(er), abundant and cheaper energy vs it invoking dread at the prospect of total annihilation."
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          date: 2023-10-11 13:43:35.0 +02:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-10-11 13:43:35.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41306
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2254
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2250 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +body: """
          Oh wait, my fault. I was responding to your comment “**We are still here**”\n
          \n
          Wasn’t sure which part of my anaolgy you weren’t getting. Now we can peacefully argue about that instead.\n
          \n
          **EDITED FOR TYPO
          """
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          date: 2023-10-12 20:52:28.0 +02:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        -id: 43749
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        +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/comment/4361340"
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          date: 2023-10-12 21:23:04.0 +02:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697136748 {#2244
          date: 2023-10-12 20:52:28.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 43749
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2189
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: """
          You don’t have to apologize to me. If he’s someone who would collaborate with Ward Churchill, he’s got a clear agenda. My source for that was looking him up on Wikipedia, as I had no clue who he was. I’m not going to do the effort of sending you a direct link to the article, so feel free to do it yourself. And grant us all the fact that someone who writes a book has an implied agenda to sell the book.\n
          \n
          And every time you start a post with “Source?”, it’s a bad look.
          """
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          date: 2023-10-12 00:17:28.0 +02:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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        -id: 42135
        -bodyTs: "'agenda':24,82 'apolog':6 'articl':59 'bad':99 'book':78,86 'churchil':18 'clear':23 'clue':39 'collabor':15 'direct':55 'effort':50 'everi':88 'fact':72 'feel':61 'free':62 'go':46 'got':21 'grant':68 'impli':81 'link':56 'look':30,100 'm':44 'post':93 'sell':84 'send':52 'someon':12,74 'sourc':26,95 'start':91 'time':89 'us':69 'ward':17 'wikipedia':34 'would':14 'write':76"
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        +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/comment/4331392"
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          date: 2023-10-12 00:17:28.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 42135
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "While I mostly agree, I never said constant war, but where I will disagree in a sense is, the prospect of total annihilation would have been a factor millennia ago had the technology been there. Pick your era, the Romans, the various Chinese dynasties, the English, etc… if they had the means, they would have likely used it, having zero regard for the impact it would have later, mostly due to a poor understanding of the technology. I do believe, at least between “the big three”, meaning the US, Russia and China, nuclear war is an extremely potent deterrent to all out war. It’s the “kids who want to be in the club” that worry me, everyone from NK to Israel. It sucks, but the atomic cat is out of the bag in a world we’re all forced to live in, and the polarization of politics and other bullshit only work to drive that wedge deeper and push us closer to… bad shit."
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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          date: 2023-10-10 22:52:49.0 +02:00
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      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: """
          As I’m too stupid and it’s to early for me to do these inline…\n
          \n
          Your 1st point, here’s one, had to scroll about 1/8 down the page for. Granted it doesn’t explicitly say it was “okay”, the point stands:\n
          \n
          > “China/Russia/Europe are largely inhabited by people whose ancestry traces back 1000s of years to the same region. That’s very different from North America, where most natives where killed (either through disease or “policy”).\n
          \n
          > That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), but it’s still very different.”\n
          \n
          As you also wanted to be pointed to a source for genocides on the same or larger scale throughout history, allow me to search Wikipedia for you:\n
          \n
          [en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides)\n
          \n
          As to point 3, who exactly determines who is responsible and who will benefit from this paln to raise up America’s indigenous population to their proper station? Are 1st generation immigrants from Ghana going to be required to pay up? How about Natives who’s ancestry dates back to a tribe that exterminated another tribe? Surely that should also qualify as genocide?\n
          \n
          And as to point 4, we, in the west, as I did point out I was American, are in a (**relatively**) peaceful time, which implies that throughout history it has not been, but I guess I need to spell it out for some people.\n
          \n
          At the end of the day, you’re not looking to be enlightened or to learn anything, your post was directed to completely discount my points, or to “*troll*” I will admit I was getting heated reading some of the off the wall bullshit I was seeing, but superlatives aside, I stand by everything I’ve posted. I apologize if you TRULY didn’t know about other genocides, or if your worldview has jaded you to the point where you don’t initially see posts that clearly illustrate what I said, at least in the abstract, and you took the time to go back and reread them and allow it to sink in.\n
          \n
          Feel free to pick apart this post, too. Nothing is more entertaining in a meme thread than for 2 idiots, myself included, to argue about genocide.🙂
          """
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          date: 2023-10-11 14:10:25.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 41323
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2204
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2200 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +body: "Oversimplifing an empire being overthrown. Seems legit."
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2023-10-12 18:39:26.0 +02:00
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          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        -bodyTs: "'empir':3 'legit':7 'oversimplif':1 'overthrown':5 'seem':6"
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          date: 2023-10-12 18:39:26.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 43459
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2281
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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        +body: "It’ll be a while before I can read further but I do intend to read all of it. In my biased opinion so far, i reads like a propaganda piece, the words seleceted in some of the passages are used to elicit a response, but maybe I’ll see differently as I continue. I do have a question, when you say “genocide”, are you also including open conflicts? It’s my understanding of the word that it would not, but I want to make sure, especially when numbers are involved, that we’re using the same metrics."
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          date: 2023-10-12 15:46:08.0 +02:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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        -id: 43093
        -bodyTs: "'also':66 'bias':22 'conflict':69 'continu':54 'differ':51 'elicit':43 'especi':87 'far':25 'genocid':63 'includ':67 'intend':14 'involv':91 'like':28 'll':2,49 'make':85 'mayb':47 'metric':98 'number':89 'open':68 'opinion':23 'passag':39 'piec':31 'propaganda':30 'question':59 're':94 'read':9,16,27 'respons':45 'say':62 'see':50 'selecet':34 'sure':86 'understand':73 'use':41,95 'want':83 'word':33,76 'would':79"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/comment/4352097"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697118368 {#2295
          date: 2023-10-12 15:46:08.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 43093
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      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2263
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: """
          People. On a land mass. Wiped out. People. On a land mass. Wiped out.\n
          \n
          Yeah, I guess I see your point.
          """
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          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        -id: 43560
        -bodyTs: "'guess':17 'land':4,11 'mass':5,12 'peopl':1,8 'point':21 'see':19 'wipe':6,13 'yeah':15"
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          date: 2023-10-12 19:25:03.0 +02:00
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      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
      16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2034
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "You too buddy! Would enjoy having rational conversations, even note elsewhere in this thread that I’m taking the time to read American Holocaust, as I told myself “why should I ask someone to do something I’m not willing to do myself?” Granted, being close to 50 years old, it likely won’t change my mind, but I reason that if I do read this book, maybe I can better understand other’s worldview, and maybe, just maybe we can have civil conversations instead of the stupid fucking bickering that’s been going on in a… wait for it… meme thread!"
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          date: 2023-10-12 22:21:54.0 +02:00
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
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        +body: "Oh, I stand corrected. A link to a Google doc. Should probably submit that to the Wikipedia article I linked as clearly thier information is flawed. You win an internet today."
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     …2
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  +body: """
    Ah, the internet…\n
    \n
    The phrase “That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), **but it’s still very different**” effectively translates to “Even though this happened, this is worse”.\n
    \n
    If you bothered to look at that list, you’ll note the mention of the California Genocide of 1846. Reported casualties between 9,492 and 16,094, with other estimates as high as 120,000. Absolutely fucking horrible and a black mark on American history indeed. However, there are 31 other genocides on that list that are higher in number, with three of those even happening prior to California-\n
    \n
    Dzungam 1755, 480,000-600,000 Taino 1492, 68,000-968,000 Albigensian 1209, 200,000-1,000,000\n
    \n
    I guess it depends on how you define “genocide”, but since Wikipedia is generally using the accepted definition, I feel pretty safe in going with what they say.\n
    \n
    And I did lay out proof, you’re just too caught up in whatever ideology to see it. Feel free to rebut, down vote, cry or whatever makes you feel better, but my point was the world is a horrible place, and terrible things happen to all kinds of groups of people. The “meme” that started all this IS a cherry picked reference to people who were wronged (I’m not disputing they were wronged, but so were… insert any other group of people here). Throughout history, most civilizations are founded on the conquering of another. As horrible as that is, it’s a fact. And after the fact, many of the remaining conqured are treated horribly. Also a fact.\n
    \n
    Lay out some real numbers, cite an authoritative source (sources) and then we can talk. Until then, I hope the best for you and really wish we could get past this bickering bullshit. Life is too short, and trying to pin the sins of one’s father on the current generation isn’t solving shit. Work toward bettering peoples lives without having to exact revenge from people who didn’t have fuck all to do with it.
    """
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2349
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    +slug: "History"
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2196
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "Explain. How is it a false equivalent? Romans controlled the city / region for over a thousand years and were later conqured, and their land stolen, to use the vernacular of this thread."
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        +body: "So by that logic, the Turks should give Constantinople back to the Romans?"
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          +body: """
            For fucks sake… 1st off, whether or not this qualifies as a “meme”, it doesn’t fit the accepted norm of what most people expect to see when they click on “memes”\n
            \n
            Secondly, and this may sting a little, but peace as we know it is a relatively new thing in world history. I’ve seen a multitude of other comments here proclaiming all those other genocides were okay because they were thousands of years ago. It’s that “in my lifetime” mentality that just fucking grinds my gears. Through thousands of years of history, one genocide is cherry picked and held up as the worst ever, and the citizens who"benefitted" from it are supposed to pick up the tab? My ancestors weren’t Spanish or English, and my family has been here for about 130 years having come from Germany in 1890. How much of the tab am I supposed to pick up?\n
            \n
            Fact of the matter is, the only constant in human history is war. We’re in a (relatively) peaceful era now, and that’s taking into account Ukraine/Russia, Israel/Palestine, and probably another 20 or 30 wars I’m not up to speed on because I’m American and our media doesn’t seem to actually inform us on world events from countries we don’t buy shit from.
            """
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        +body: """
          Clever.\n
          \n
          I’m going through the sourced materials in the American Holocaust book, (great title, by the way! not divisive at all!), and considering the sources, it’s pretty obvious Stannard has an agenda, he’s a “cultural materialist”, an offshoot of cultural Marxism. But you knew that, you just didn’t think I’d look 😉\n
          \n
          Anyway, with as far as I’ve gotten, I can surmise the sources, the majority of them at least, point to textbooks published by “Berkley; University of California press”. Seems a lot of anti-American sentiment comes out of Berkley. Just to appease my curiosity, I’m going to look deeper into this fellow, who, funny enough, cites his own works as well. That’s pretty douchey
          """
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2349}
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
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        +body: "And it’s written by a person, with an agenda and bias just like everyone else. Have a tough time taking anything seriously from someone affiliated with Ward Churchill."
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      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
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        +body: "Citing one book by someone with a clear agenda isn’t a good look either. You picked the fight, feel free to drop it at your leisure."
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        -id: 41925
        -bodyTs: "'agenda':9 'book':3 'cite':1 'clear':8 'drop':23 'either':15 'feel':20 'fight':19 'free':21 'good':13 'isn':10 'leisur':27 'look':14 'one':2 'pick':17 'someon':5"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-10-11 22:01:33.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41925
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2022 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "I agree with your points, and yes it’s a better perspective, however, that’s not the world we’re living in. There are some who are hell bent on wiping out continents of people due to any number of reasons ranging from beliefs to the exploitation of natural resources merely for financial gain. I really wish we did live in a world where the word “nuclear” invoked thoughts of clean(er), abundant and cheaper energy vs it invoking dread at the prospect of total annihilation."
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          date: 2023-10-11 13:43:35.0 +02:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        -id: 41306
        -bodyTs: "'abund':73 'agre':2 'annihil':86 'belief':44 'bent':29 'better':11 'cheaper':75 'clean':71 'contin':33 'dread':80 'due':36 'energi':76 'er':72 'exploit':47 'financi':53 'gain':54 'hell':28 'howev':13 'invok':68,79 'live':21,60 'mere':51 'natur':49 'nuclear':67 'number':39 'peopl':35 'perspect':12 'point':5 'prospect':83 'rang':42 're':20 'realli':56 'reason':41 'resourc':50 'thought':69 'total':85 'vs':77 'wipe':31 'wish':57 'word':66 'world':18,63 'yes':7"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-10-11 13:43:35.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41306
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2254
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2250 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +body: """
          Oh wait, my fault. I was responding to your comment “**We are still here**”\n
          \n
          Wasn’t sure which part of my anaolgy you weren’t getting. Now we can peacefully argue about that instead.\n
          \n
          **EDITED FOR TYPO
          """
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          date: 2023-10-12 20:52:28.0 +02:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        -id: 43749
        -bodyTs: "'anaolgi':22 'argu':31 'comment':10 'edit':35 'fault':4 'get':26 'instead':34 'oh':1 'part':19 'peac':30 'respond':7 'still':13 'sure':17 'typo':37 'wait':2 'wasn':15 'weren':24"
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        +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/comment/4361340"
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          date: 2023-10-12 21:23:04.0 +02:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697136748 {#2244
          date: 2023-10-12 20:52:28.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 43749
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2189
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: """
          You don’t have to apologize to me. If he’s someone who would collaborate with Ward Churchill, he’s got a clear agenda. My source for that was looking him up on Wikipedia, as I had no clue who he was. I’m not going to do the effort of sending you a direct link to the article, so feel free to do it yourself. And grant us all the fact that someone who writes a book has an implied agenda to sell the book.\n
          \n
          And every time you start a post with “Source?”, it’s a bad look.
          """
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          date: 2023-10-12 00:17:28.0 +02:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
        ]
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        -id: 42135
        -bodyTs: "'agenda':24,82 'apolog':6 'articl':59 'bad':99 'book':78,86 'churchil':18 'clear':23 'clue':39 'collabor':15 'direct':55 'effort':50 'everi':88 'fact':72 'feel':61 'free':62 'go':46 'got':21 'grant':68 'impli':81 'link':56 'look':30,100 'm':44 'post':93 'sell':84 'send':52 'someon':12,74 'sourc':26,95 'start':91 'time':89 'us':69 'ward':17 'wikipedia':34 'would':14 'write':76"
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        +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/comment/4331392"
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          date: 2023-10-12 00:17:28.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 42135
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "While I mostly agree, I never said constant war, but where I will disagree in a sense is, the prospect of total annihilation would have been a factor millennia ago had the technology been there. Pick your era, the Romans, the various Chinese dynasties, the English, etc… if they had the means, they would have likely used it, having zero regard for the impact it would have later, mostly due to a poor understanding of the technology. I do believe, at least between “the big three”, meaning the US, Russia and China, nuclear war is an extremely potent deterrent to all out war. It’s the “kids who want to be in the club” that worry me, everyone from NK to Israel. It sucks, but the atomic cat is out of the bag in a world we’re all forced to live in, and the polarization of politics and other bullshit only work to drive that wedge deeper and push us closer to… bad shit."
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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          date: 2023-10-10 22:52:49.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 40641
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: """
          As I’m too stupid and it’s to early for me to do these inline…\n
          \n
          Your 1st point, here’s one, had to scroll about 1/8 down the page for. Granted it doesn’t explicitly say it was “okay”, the point stands:\n
          \n
          > “China/Russia/Europe are largely inhabited by people whose ancestry traces back 1000s of years to the same region. That’s very different from North America, where most natives where killed (either through disease or “policy”).\n
          \n
          > That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), but it’s still very different.”\n
          \n
          As you also wanted to be pointed to a source for genocides on the same or larger scale throughout history, allow me to search Wikipedia for you:\n
          \n
          [en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides)\n
          \n
          As to point 3, who exactly determines who is responsible and who will benefit from this paln to raise up America’s indigenous population to their proper station? Are 1st generation immigrants from Ghana going to be required to pay up? How about Natives who’s ancestry dates back to a tribe that exterminated another tribe? Surely that should also qualify as genocide?\n
          \n
          And as to point 4, we, in the west, as I did point out I was American, are in a (**relatively**) peaceful time, which implies that throughout history it has not been, but I guess I need to spell it out for some people.\n
          \n
          At the end of the day, you’re not looking to be enlightened or to learn anything, your post was directed to completely discount my points, or to “*troll*” I will admit I was getting heated reading some of the off the wall bullshit I was seeing, but superlatives aside, I stand by everything I’ve posted. I apologize if you TRULY didn’t know about other genocides, or if your worldview has jaded you to the point where you don’t initially see posts that clearly illustrate what I said, at least in the abstract, and you took the time to go back and reread them and allow it to sink in.\n
          \n
          Feel free to pick apart this post, too. Nothing is more entertaining in a meme thread than for 2 idiots, myself included, to argue about genocide.🙂
          """
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
        ]
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697026225 {#2036
          date: 2023-10-11 14:10:25.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 41323
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2204
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2200 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +body: "Oversimplifing an empire being overthrown. Seems legit."
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2023-10-12 18:39:26.0 +02:00
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          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        -id: 43459
        -bodyTs: "'empir':3 'legit':7 'oversimplif':1 'overthrown':5 'seem':6"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697128766 {#2209
          date: 2023-10-12 18:39:26.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 43459
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2281
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "It’ll be a while before I can read further but I do intend to read all of it. In my biased opinion so far, i reads like a propaganda piece, the words seleceted in some of the passages are used to elicit a response, but maybe I’ll see differently as I continue. I do have a question, when you say “genocide”, are you also including open conflicts? It’s my understanding of the word that it would not, but I want to make sure, especially when numbers are involved, that we’re using the same metrics."
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          date: 2023-10-12 15:46:08.0 +02:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
        ]
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        -id: 43093
        -bodyTs: "'also':66 'bias':22 'conflict':69 'continu':54 'differ':51 'elicit':43 'especi':87 'far':25 'genocid':63 'includ':67 'intend':14 'involv':91 'like':28 'll':2,49 'make':85 'mayb':47 'metric':98 'number':89 'open':68 'opinion':23 'passag':39 'piec':31 'propaganda':30 'question':59 're':94 'read':9,16,27 'respons':45 'say':62 'see':50 'selecet':34 'sure':86 'understand':73 'use':41,95 'want':83 'word':33,76 'would':79"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/comment/4352097"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697118368 {#2295
          date: 2023-10-12 15:46:08.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 43093
      }
      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2263
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: """
          People. On a land mass. Wiped out. People. On a land mass. Wiped out.\n
          \n
          Yeah, I guess I see your point.
          """
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          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
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      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
      16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2034
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        +body: "You too buddy! Would enjoy having rational conversations, even note elsewhere in this thread that I’m taking the time to read American Holocaust, as I told myself “why should I ask someone to do something I’m not willing to do myself?” Granted, being close to 50 years old, it likely won’t change my mind, but I reason that if I do read this book, maybe I can better understand other’s worldview, and maybe, just maybe we can have civil conversations instead of the stupid fucking bickering that’s been going on in a… wait for it… meme thread!"
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        +body: "Oh, I stand corrected. A link to a Google doc. Should probably submit that to the Wikipedia article I linked as clearly thier information is flawed. You win an internet today."
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     …2
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  +body: """
    Ah, the internet…\n
    \n
    The phrase “That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), **but it’s still very different**” effectively translates to “Even though this happened, this is worse”.\n
    \n
    If you bothered to look at that list, you’ll note the mention of the California Genocide of 1846. Reported casualties between 9,492 and 16,094, with other estimates as high as 120,000. Absolutely fucking horrible and a black mark on American history indeed. However, there are 31 other genocides on that list that are higher in number, with three of those even happening prior to California-\n
    \n
    Dzungam 1755, 480,000-600,000 Taino 1492, 68,000-968,000 Albigensian 1209, 200,000-1,000,000\n
    \n
    I guess it depends on how you define “genocide”, but since Wikipedia is generally using the accepted definition, I feel pretty safe in going with what they say.\n
    \n
    And I did lay out proof, you’re just too caught up in whatever ideology to see it. Feel free to rebut, down vote, cry or whatever makes you feel better, but my point was the world is a horrible place, and terrible things happen to all kinds of groups of people. The “meme” that started all this IS a cherry picked reference to people who were wronged (I’m not disputing they were wronged, but so were… insert any other group of people here). Throughout history, most civilizations are founded on the conquering of another. As horrible as that is, it’s a fact. And after the fact, many of the remaining conqured are treated horribly. Also a fact.\n
    \n
    Lay out some real numbers, cite an authoritative source (sources) and then we can talk. Until then, I hope the best for you and really wish we could get past this bickering bullshit. Life is too short, and trying to pin the sins of one’s father on the current generation isn’t solving shit. Work toward bettering peoples lives without having to exact revenge from people who didn’t have fuck all to do with it.
    """
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2349
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2196
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        +body: "Explain. How is it a false equivalent? Romans controlled the city / region for over a thousand years and were later conqured, and their land stolen, to use the vernacular of this thread."
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        +body: "So by that logic, the Turks should give Constantinople back to the Romans?"
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            For fucks sake… 1st off, whether or not this qualifies as a “meme”, it doesn’t fit the accepted norm of what most people expect to see when they click on “memes”\n
            \n
            Secondly, and this may sting a little, but peace as we know it is a relatively new thing in world history. I’ve seen a multitude of other comments here proclaiming all those other genocides were okay because they were thousands of years ago. It’s that “in my lifetime” mentality that just fucking grinds my gears. Through thousands of years of history, one genocide is cherry picked and held up as the worst ever, and the citizens who"benefitted" from it are supposed to pick up the tab? My ancestors weren’t Spanish or English, and my family has been here for about 130 years having come from Germany in 1890. How much of the tab am I supposed to pick up?\n
            \n
            Fact of the matter is, the only constant in human history is war. We’re in a (relatively) peaceful era now, and that’s taking into account Ukraine/Russia, Israel/Palestine, and probably another 20 or 30 wars I’m not up to speed on because I’m American and our media doesn’t seem to actually inform us on world events from countries we don’t buy shit from.
            """
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          Clever.\n
          \n
          I’m going through the sourced materials in the American Holocaust book, (great title, by the way! not divisive at all!), and considering the sources, it’s pretty obvious Stannard has an agenda, he’s a “cultural materialist”, an offshoot of cultural Marxism. But you knew that, you just didn’t think I’d look 😉\n
          \n
          Anyway, with as far as I’ve gotten, I can surmise the sources, the majority of them at least, point to textbooks published by “Berkley; University of California press”. Seems a lot of anti-American sentiment comes out of Berkley. Just to appease my curiosity, I’m going to look deeper into this fellow, who, funny enough, cites his own works as well. That’s pretty douchey
          """
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        +body: "And it’s written by a person, with an agenda and bias just like everyone else. Have a tough time taking anything seriously from someone affiliated with Ward Churchill."
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        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2224 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "Citing one book by someone with a clear agenda isn’t a good look either. You picked the fight, feel free to drop it at your leisure."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-10-11 22:01:33.0 +02:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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        -id: 41925
        -bodyTs: "'agenda':9 'book':3 'cite':1 'clear':8 'drop':23 'either':15 'feel':20 'fight':19 'free':21 'good':13 'isn':10 'leisur':27 'look':14 'one':2 'pick':17 'someon':5"
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          date: 2023-10-11 22:01:33.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41925
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "I agree with your points, and yes it’s a better perspective, however, that’s not the world we’re living in. There are some who are hell bent on wiping out continents of people due to any number of reasons ranging from beliefs to the exploitation of natural resources merely for financial gain. I really wish we did live in a world where the word “nuclear” invoked thoughts of clean(er), abundant and cheaper energy vs it invoking dread at the prospect of total annihilation."
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          date: 2023-10-11 13:43:35.0 +02:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works"
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          date: 2023-10-11 13:43:35.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41306
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2254
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2250 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +body: """
          Oh wait, my fault. I was responding to your comment “**We are still here**”\n
          \n
          Wasn’t sure which part of my anaolgy you weren’t getting. Now we can peacefully argue about that instead.\n
          \n
          **EDITED FOR TYPO
          """
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          date: 2023-10-12 20:52:28.0 +02:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        -id: 43749
        -bodyTs: "'anaolgi':22 'argu':31 'comment':10 'edit':35 'fault':4 'get':26 'instead':34 'oh':1 'part':19 'peac':30 'respond':7 'still':13 'sure':17 'typo':37 'wait':2 'wasn':15 'weren':24"
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        +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/comment/4361340"
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          date: 2023-10-12 21:23:04.0 +02:00
        }
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          date: 2023-10-12 20:52:28.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 43749
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2189
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: """
          You don’t have to apologize to me. If he’s someone who would collaborate with Ward Churchill, he’s got a clear agenda. My source for that was looking him up on Wikipedia, as I had no clue who he was. I’m not going to do the effort of sending you a direct link to the article, so feel free to do it yourself. And grant us all the fact that someone who writes a book has an implied agenda to sell the book.\n
          \n
          And every time you start a post with “Source?”, it’s a bad look.
          """
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          date: 2023-10-12 00:17:28.0 +02:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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        -id: 42135
        -bodyTs: "'agenda':24,82 'apolog':6 'articl':59 'bad':99 'book':78,86 'churchil':18 'clear':23 'clue':39 'collabor':15 'direct':55 'effort':50 'everi':88 'fact':72 'feel':61 'free':62 'go':46 'got':21 'grant':68 'impli':81 'link':56 'look':30,100 'm':44 'post':93 'sell':84 'send':52 'someon':12,74 'sourc':26,95 'start':91 'time':89 'us':69 'ward':17 'wikipedia':34 'would':14 'write':76"
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          date: 2023-10-12 00:17:28.0 +02:00
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      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "While I mostly agree, I never said constant war, but where I will disagree in a sense is, the prospect of total annihilation would have been a factor millennia ago had the technology been there. Pick your era, the Romans, the various Chinese dynasties, the English, etc… if they had the means, they would have likely used it, having zero regard for the impact it would have later, mostly due to a poor understanding of the technology. I do believe, at least between “the big three”, meaning the US, Russia and China, nuclear war is an extremely potent deterrent to all out war. It’s the “kids who want to be in the club” that worry me, everyone from NK to Israel. It sucks, but the atomic cat is out of the bag in a world we’re all forced to live in, and the polarization of politics and other bullshit only work to drive that wedge deeper and push us closer to… bad shit."
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          "@ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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          date: 2023-10-10 22:52:49.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 40641
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: """
          As I’m too stupid and it’s to early for me to do these inline…\n
          \n
          Your 1st point, here’s one, had to scroll about 1/8 down the page for. Granted it doesn’t explicitly say it was “okay”, the point stands:\n
          \n
          > “China/Russia/Europe are largely inhabited by people whose ancestry traces back 1000s of years to the same region. That’s very different from North America, where most natives where killed (either through disease or “policy”).\n
          \n
          > That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), but it’s still very different.”\n
          \n
          As you also wanted to be pointed to a source for genocides on the same or larger scale throughout history, allow me to search Wikipedia for you:\n
          \n
          [en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides)\n
          \n
          As to point 3, who exactly determines who is responsible and who will benefit from this paln to raise up America’s indigenous population to their proper station? Are 1st generation immigrants from Ghana going to be required to pay up? How about Natives who’s ancestry dates back to a tribe that exterminated another tribe? Surely that should also qualify as genocide?\n
          \n
          And as to point 4, we, in the west, as I did point out I was American, are in a (**relatively**) peaceful time, which implies that throughout history it has not been, but I guess I need to spell it out for some people.\n
          \n
          At the end of the day, you’re not looking to be enlightened or to learn anything, your post was directed to completely discount my points, or to “*troll*” I will admit I was getting heated reading some of the off the wall bullshit I was seeing, but superlatives aside, I stand by everything I’ve posted. I apologize if you TRULY didn’t know about other genocides, or if your worldview has jaded you to the point where you don’t initially see posts that clearly illustrate what I said, at least in the abstract, and you took the time to go back and reread them and allow it to sink in.\n
          \n
          Feel free to pick apart this post, too. Nothing is more entertaining in a meme thread than for 2 idiots, myself included, to argue about genocide.🙂
          """
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          date: 2023-10-11 14:10:25.0 +02:00
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      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2204
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2200 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +body: "Oversimplifing an empire being overthrown. Seems legit."
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2023-10-12 18:39:26.0 +02:00
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          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        -bodyTs: "'empir':3 'legit':7 'oversimplif':1 'overthrown':5 'seem':6"
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          date: 2023-10-12 18:39:26.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 43459
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2281
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "It’ll be a while before I can read further but I do intend to read all of it. In my biased opinion so far, i reads like a propaganda piece, the words seleceted in some of the passages are used to elicit a response, but maybe I’ll see differently as I continue. I do have a question, when you say “genocide”, are you also including open conflicts? It’s my understanding of the word that it would not, but I want to make sure, especially when numbers are involved, that we’re using the same metrics."
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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        -id: 43093
        -bodyTs: "'also':66 'bias':22 'conflict':69 'continu':54 'differ':51 'elicit':43 'especi':87 'far':25 'genocid':63 'includ':67 'intend':14 'involv':91 'like':28 'll':2,49 'make':85 'mayb':47 'metric':98 'number':89 'open':68 'opinion':23 'passag':39 'piec':31 'propaganda':30 'question':59 're':94 'read':9,16,27 'respons':45 'say':62 'see':50 'selecet':34 'sure':86 'understand':73 'use':41,95 'want':83 'word':33,76 'would':79"
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        +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/comment/4352097"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697118368 {#2295
          date: 2023-10-12 15:46:08.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 43093
      }
      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2263
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: """
          People. On a land mass. Wiped out. People. On a land mass. Wiped out.\n
          \n
          Yeah, I guess I see your point.
          """
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
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        +body: "You too buddy! Would enjoy having rational conversations, even note elsewhere in this thread that I’m taking the time to read American Holocaust, as I told myself “why should I ask someone to do something I’m not willing to do myself?” Granted, being close to 50 years old, it likely won’t change my mind, but I reason that if I do read this book, maybe I can better understand other’s worldview, and maybe, just maybe we can have civil conversations instead of the stupid fucking bickering that’s been going on in a… wait for it… meme thread!"
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        +body: "Oh, I stand corrected. A link to a Google doc. Should probably submit that to the Wikipedia article I linked as clearly thier information is flawed. You win an internet today."
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  +body: """
    Ah, the internet…\n
    \n
    The phrase “That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), **but it’s still very different**” effectively translates to “Even though this happened, this is worse”.\n
    \n
    If you bothered to look at that list, you’ll note the mention of the California Genocide of 1846. Reported casualties between 9,492 and 16,094, with other estimates as high as 120,000. Absolutely fucking horrible and a black mark on American history indeed. However, there are 31 other genocides on that list that are higher in number, with three of those even happening prior to California-\n
    \n
    Dzungam 1755, 480,000-600,000 Taino 1492, 68,000-968,000 Albigensian 1209, 200,000-1,000,000\n
    \n
    I guess it depends on how you define “genocide”, but since Wikipedia is generally using the accepted definition, I feel pretty safe in going with what they say.\n
    \n
    And I did lay out proof, you’re just too caught up in whatever ideology to see it. Feel free to rebut, down vote, cry or whatever makes you feel better, but my point was the world is a horrible place, and terrible things happen to all kinds of groups of people. The “meme” that started all this IS a cherry picked reference to people who were wronged (I’m not disputing they were wronged, but so were… insert any other group of people here). Throughout history, most civilizations are founded on the conquering of another. As horrible as that is, it’s a fact. And after the fact, many of the remaining conqured are treated horribly. Also a fact.\n
    \n
    Lay out some real numbers, cite an authoritative source (sources) and then we can talk. Until then, I hope the best for you and really wish we could get past this bickering bullshit. Life is too short, and trying to pin the sins of one’s father on the current generation isn’t solving shit. Work toward bettering peoples lives without having to exact revenge from people who didn’t have fuck all to do with it.
    """
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2196
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        +body: "Explain. How is it a false equivalent? Romans controlled the city / region for over a thousand years and were later conqured, and their land stolen, to use the vernacular of this thread."
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        +body: "So by that logic, the Turks should give Constantinople back to the Romans?"
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            For fucks sake… 1st off, whether or not this qualifies as a “meme”, it doesn’t fit the accepted norm of what most people expect to see when they click on “memes”\n
            \n
            Secondly, and this may sting a little, but peace as we know it is a relatively new thing in world history. I’ve seen a multitude of other comments here proclaiming all those other genocides were okay because they were thousands of years ago. It’s that “in my lifetime” mentality that just fucking grinds my gears. Through thousands of years of history, one genocide is cherry picked and held up as the worst ever, and the citizens who"benefitted" from it are supposed to pick up the tab? My ancestors weren’t Spanish or English, and my family has been here for about 130 years having come from Germany in 1890. How much of the tab am I supposed to pick up?\n
            \n
            Fact of the matter is, the only constant in human history is war. We’re in a (relatively) peaceful era now, and that’s taking into account Ukraine/Russia, Israel/Palestine, and probably another 20 or 30 wars I’m not up to speed on because I’m American and our media doesn’t seem to actually inform us on world events from countries we don’t buy shit from.
            """
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        +body: """
          Clever.\n
          \n
          I’m going through the sourced materials in the American Holocaust book, (great title, by the way! not divisive at all!), and considering the sources, it’s pretty obvious Stannard has an agenda, he’s a “cultural materialist”, an offshoot of cultural Marxism. But you knew that, you just didn’t think I’d look 😉\n
          \n
          Anyway, with as far as I’ve gotten, I can surmise the sources, the majority of them at least, point to textbooks published by “Berkley; University of California press”. Seems a lot of anti-American sentiment comes out of Berkley. Just to appease my curiosity, I’m going to look deeper into this fellow, who, funny enough, cites his own works as well. That’s pretty douchey
          """
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        +body: """
          Ah, the internet…\n
          \n
          The phrase “That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), **but it’s still very different**” effectively translates to “Even though this happened, this is worse”.\n
          \n
          If you bothered to look at that list, you’ll note the mention of the California Genocide of 1846. Reported casualties between 9,492 and 16,094, with other estimates as high as 120,000. Absolutely fucking horrible and a black mark on American history indeed. However, there are 31 other genocides on that list that are higher in number, with three of those even happening prior to California-\n
          \n
          Dzungam 1755, 480,000-600,000 Taino 1492, 68,000-968,000 Albigensian 1209, 200,000-1,000,000\n
          \n
          I guess it depends on how you define “genocide”, but since Wikipedia is generally using the accepted definition, I feel pretty safe in going with what they say.\n
          \n
          And I did lay out proof, you’re just too caught up in whatever ideology to see it. Feel free to rebut, down vote, cry or whatever makes you feel better, but my point was the world is a horrible place, and terrible things happen to all kinds of groups of people. The “meme” that started all this IS a cherry picked reference to people who were wronged (I’m not disputing they were wronged, but so were… insert any other group of people here). Throughout history, most civilizations are founded on the conquering of another. As horrible as that is, it’s a fact. And after the fact, many of the remaining conqured are treated horribly. Also a fact.\n
          \n
          Lay out some real numbers, cite an authoritative source (sources) and then we can talk. Until then, I hope the best for you and really wish we could get past this bickering bullshit. Life is too short, and trying to pin the sins of one’s father on the current generation isn’t solving shit. Work toward bettering peoples lives without having to exact revenge from people who didn’t have fuck all to do with it.
          """
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          date: 2023-10-11 17:56:07.0 +02:00
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115}
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2224 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "Citing one book by someone with a clear agenda isn’t a good look either. You picked the fight, feel free to drop it at your leisure."
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2023-10-11 22:01:33.0 +02:00
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        -id: 41925
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          date: 2023-10-11 22:01:33.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41925
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024
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        +body: "I agree with your points, and yes it’s a better perspective, however, that’s not the world we’re living in. There are some who are hell bent on wiping out continents of people due to any number of reasons ranging from beliefs to the exploitation of natural resources merely for financial gain. I really wish we did live in a world where the word “nuclear” invoked thoughts of clean(er), abundant and cheaper energy vs it invoking dread at the prospect of total annihilation."
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works"
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          date: 2023-10-11 13:43:35.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 41306
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2254
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: """
          Oh wait, my fault. I was responding to your comment “**We are still here**”\n
          \n
          Wasn’t sure which part of my anaolgy you weren’t getting. Now we can peacefully argue about that instead.\n
          \n
          **EDITED FOR TYPO
          """
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          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
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          date: 2023-10-12 21:23:04.0 +02:00
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      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2189
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        +body: """
          You don’t have to apologize to me. If he’s someone who would collaborate with Ward Churchill, he’s got a clear agenda. My source for that was looking him up on Wikipedia, as I had no clue who he was. I’m not going to do the effort of sending you a direct link to the article, so feel free to do it yourself. And grant us all the fact that someone who writes a book has an implied agenda to sell the book.\n
          \n
          And every time you start a post with “Source?”, it’s a bad look.
          """
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      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "While I mostly agree, I never said constant war, but where I will disagree in a sense is, the prospect of total annihilation would have been a factor millennia ago had the technology been there. Pick your era, the Romans, the various Chinese dynasties, the English, etc… if they had the means, they would have likely used it, having zero regard for the impact it would have later, mostly due to a poor understanding of the technology. I do believe, at least between “the big three”, meaning the US, Russia and China, nuclear war is an extremely potent deterrent to all out war. It’s the “kids who want to be in the club” that worry me, everyone from NK to Israel. It sucks, but the atomic cat is out of the bag in a world we’re all forced to live in, and the polarization of politics and other bullshit only work to drive that wedge deeper and push us closer to… bad shit."
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      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: """
          As I’m too stupid and it’s to early for me to do these inline…\n
          \n
          Your 1st point, here’s one, had to scroll about 1/8 down the page for. Granted it doesn’t explicitly say it was “okay”, the point stands:\n
          \n
          > “China/Russia/Europe are largely inhabited by people whose ancestry traces back 1000s of years to the same region. That’s very different from North America, where most natives where killed (either through disease or “policy”).\n
          \n
          > That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), but it’s still very different.”\n
          \n
          As you also wanted to be pointed to a source for genocides on the same or larger scale throughout history, allow me to search Wikipedia for you:\n
          \n
          [en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides)\n
          \n
          As to point 3, who exactly determines who is responsible and who will benefit from this paln to raise up America’s indigenous population to their proper station? Are 1st generation immigrants from Ghana going to be required to pay up? How about Natives who’s ancestry dates back to a tribe that exterminated another tribe? Surely that should also qualify as genocide?\n
          \n
          And as to point 4, we, in the west, as I did point out I was American, are in a (**relatively**) peaceful time, which implies that throughout history it has not been, but I guess I need to spell it out for some people.\n
          \n
          At the end of the day, you’re not looking to be enlightened or to learn anything, your post was directed to completely discount my points, or to “*troll*” I will admit I was getting heated reading some of the off the wall bullshit I was seeing, but superlatives aside, I stand by everything I’ve posted. I apologize if you TRULY didn’t know about other genocides, or if your worldview has jaded you to the point where you don’t initially see posts that clearly illustrate what I said, at least in the abstract, and you took the time to go back and reread them and allow it to sink in.\n
          \n
          Feel free to pick apart this post, too. Nothing is more entertaining in a meme thread than for 2 idiots, myself included, to argue about genocide.🙂
          """
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          date: 2023-10-11 14:10:25.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 41323
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2204
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +body: "Oversimplifing an empire being overthrown. Seems legit."
        +lang: "en"
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          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
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          date: 2023-10-12 18:39:26.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 43459
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2281
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        +body: "It’ll be a while before I can read further but I do intend to read all of it. In my biased opinion so far, i reads like a propaganda piece, the words seleceted in some of the passages are used to elicit a response, but maybe I’ll see differently as I continue. I do have a question, when you say “genocide”, are you also including open conflicts? It’s my understanding of the word that it would not, but I want to make sure, especially when numbers are involved, that we’re using the same metrics."
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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        -bodyTs: "'also':66 'bias':22 'conflict':69 'continu':54 'differ':51 'elicit':43 'especi':87 'far':25 'genocid':63 'includ':67 'intend':14 'involv':91 'like':28 'll':2,49 'make':85 'mayb':47 'metric':98 'number':89 'open':68 'opinion':23 'passag':39 'piec':31 'propaganda':30 'question':59 're':94 'read':9,16,27 'respons':45 'say':62 'see':50 'selecet':34 'sure':86 'understand':73 'use':41,95 'want':83 'word':33,76 'would':79"
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      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2263
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        +body: """
          People. On a land mass. Wiped out. People. On a land mass. Wiped out.\n
          \n
          Yeah, I guess I see your point.
          """
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      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
      16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2034
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        +body: "You too buddy! Would enjoy having rational conversations, even note elsewhere in this thread that I’m taking the time to read American Holocaust, as I told myself “why should I ask someone to do something I’m not willing to do myself?” Granted, being close to 50 years old, it likely won’t change my mind, but I reason that if I do read this book, maybe I can better understand other’s worldview, and maybe, just maybe we can have civil conversations instead of the stupid fucking bickering that’s been going on in a… wait for it… meme thread!"
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
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        +body: "Oh, I stand corrected. A link to a Google doc. Should probably submit that to the Wikipedia article I linked as clearly thier information is flawed. You win an internet today."
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      date: 2023-10-09 13:23:41.0 +02:00
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     …2
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  +body: "And it’s written by a person, with an agenda and bias just like everyone else. Have a tough time taking anything seriously from someone affiliated with Ward Churchill."
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
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    +slug: "History"
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    +children: [
      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2196
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
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        +body: "Explain. How is it a false equivalent? Romans controlled the city / region for over a thousand years and were later conqured, and their land stolen, to use the vernacular of this thread."
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2324
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        +body: "So by that logic, the Turks should give Constantinople back to the Romans?"
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      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2307
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          +body: """
            For fucks sake… 1st off, whether or not this qualifies as a “meme”, it doesn’t fit the accepted norm of what most people expect to see when they click on “memes”\n
            \n
            Secondly, and this may sting a little, but peace as we know it is a relatively new thing in world history. I’ve seen a multitude of other comments here proclaiming all those other genocides were okay because they were thousands of years ago. It’s that “in my lifetime” mentality that just fucking grinds my gears. Through thousands of years of history, one genocide is cherry picked and held up as the worst ever, and the citizens who"benefitted" from it are supposed to pick up the tab? My ancestors weren’t Spanish or English, and my family has been here for about 130 years having come from Germany in 1890. How much of the tab am I supposed to pick up?\n
            \n
            Fact of the matter is, the only constant in human history is war. We’re in a (relatively) peaceful era now, and that’s taking into account Ukraine/Russia, Israel/Palestine, and probably another 20 or 30 wars I’m not up to speed on because I’m American and our media doesn’t seem to actually inform us on world events from countries we don’t buy shit from.
            """
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        +body: """
          Clever.\n
          \n
          I’m going through the sourced materials in the American Holocaust book, (great title, by the way! not divisive at all!), and considering the sources, it’s pretty obvious Stannard has an agenda, he’s a “cultural materialist”, an offshoot of cultural Marxism. But you knew that, you just didn’t think I’d look 😉\n
          \n
          Anyway, with as far as I’ve gotten, I can surmise the sources, the majority of them at least, point to textbooks published by “Berkley; University of California press”. Seems a lot of anti-American sentiment comes out of Berkley. Just to appease my curiosity, I’m going to look deeper into this fellow, who, funny enough, cites his own works as well. That’s pretty douchey
          """
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2349
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: """
          Ah, the internet…\n
          \n
          The phrase “That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), **but it’s still very different**” effectively translates to “Even though this happened, this is worse”.\n
          \n
          If you bothered to look at that list, you’ll note the mention of the California Genocide of 1846. Reported casualties between 9,492 and 16,094, with other estimates as high as 120,000. Absolutely fucking horrible and a black mark on American history indeed. However, there are 31 other genocides on that list that are higher in number, with three of those even happening prior to California-\n
          \n
          Dzungam 1755, 480,000-600,000 Taino 1492, 68,000-968,000 Albigensian 1209, 200,000-1,000,000\n
          \n
          I guess it depends on how you define “genocide”, but since Wikipedia is generally using the accepted definition, I feel pretty safe in going with what they say.\n
          \n
          And I did lay out proof, you’re just too caught up in whatever ideology to see it. Feel free to rebut, down vote, cry or whatever makes you feel better, but my point was the world is a horrible place, and terrible things happen to all kinds of groups of people. The “meme” that started all this IS a cherry picked reference to people who were wronged (I’m not disputing they were wronged, but so were… insert any other group of people here). Throughout history, most civilizations are founded on the conquering of another. As horrible as that is, it’s a fact. And after the fact, many of the remaining conqured are treated horribly. Also a fact.\n
          \n
          Lay out some real numbers, cite an authoritative source (sources) and then we can talk. Until then, I hope the best for you and really wish we could get past this bickering bullshit. Life is too short, and trying to pin the sins of one’s father on the current generation isn’t solving shit. Work toward bettering peoples lives without having to exact revenge from people who didn’t have fuck all to do with it.
          """
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115}
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "Citing one book by someone with a clear agenda isn’t a good look either. You picked the fight, feel free to drop it at your leisure."
        +lang: "en"
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        -id: 41925
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          date: 2023-10-11 22:01:33.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 41925
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024
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        +body: "I agree with your points, and yes it’s a better perspective, however, that’s not the world we’re living in. There are some who are hell bent on wiping out continents of people due to any number of reasons ranging from beliefs to the exploitation of natural resources merely for financial gain. I really wish we did live in a world where the word “nuclear” invoked thoughts of clean(er), abundant and cheaper energy vs it invoking dread at the prospect of total annihilation."
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          "@ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works"
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          date: 2023-10-11 13:43:35.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 41306
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2254
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        +body: """
          Oh wait, my fault. I was responding to your comment “**We are still here**”\n
          \n
          Wasn’t sure which part of my anaolgy you weren’t getting. Now we can peacefully argue about that instead.\n
          \n
          **EDITED FOR TYPO
          """
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          date: 2023-10-12 21:23:04.0 +02:00
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      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2189
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        +body: """
          You don’t have to apologize to me. If he’s someone who would collaborate with Ward Churchill, he’s got a clear agenda. My source for that was looking him up on Wikipedia, as I had no clue who he was. I’m not going to do the effort of sending you a direct link to the article, so feel free to do it yourself. And grant us all the fact that someone who writes a book has an implied agenda to sell the book.\n
          \n
          And every time you start a post with “Source?”, it’s a bad look.
          """
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      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383
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        +body: "While I mostly agree, I never said constant war, but where I will disagree in a sense is, the prospect of total annihilation would have been a factor millennia ago had the technology been there. Pick your era, the Romans, the various Chinese dynasties, the English, etc… if they had the means, they would have likely used it, having zero regard for the impact it would have later, mostly due to a poor understanding of the technology. I do believe, at least between “the big three”, meaning the US, Russia and China, nuclear war is an extremely potent deterrent to all out war. It’s the “kids who want to be in the club” that worry me, everyone from NK to Israel. It sucks, but the atomic cat is out of the bag in a world we’re all forced to live in, and the polarization of politics and other bullshit only work to drive that wedge deeper and push us closer to… bad shit."
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      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037
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        +body: """
          As I’m too stupid and it’s to early for me to do these inline…\n
          \n
          Your 1st point, here’s one, had to scroll about 1/8 down the page for. Granted it doesn’t explicitly say it was “okay”, the point stands:\n
          \n
          > “China/Russia/Europe are largely inhabited by people whose ancestry traces back 1000s of years to the same region. That’s very different from North America, where most natives where killed (either through disease or “policy”).\n
          \n
          > That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), but it’s still very different.”\n
          \n
          As you also wanted to be pointed to a source for genocides on the same or larger scale throughout history, allow me to search Wikipedia for you:\n
          \n
          [en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides)\n
          \n
          As to point 3, who exactly determines who is responsible and who will benefit from this paln to raise up America’s indigenous population to their proper station? Are 1st generation immigrants from Ghana going to be required to pay up? How about Natives who’s ancestry dates back to a tribe that exterminated another tribe? Surely that should also qualify as genocide?\n
          \n
          And as to point 4, we, in the west, as I did point out I was American, are in a (**relatively**) peaceful time, which implies that throughout history it has not been, but I guess I need to spell it out for some people.\n
          \n
          At the end of the day, you’re not looking to be enlightened or to learn anything, your post was directed to completely discount my points, or to “*troll*” I will admit I was getting heated reading some of the off the wall bullshit I was seeing, but superlatives aside, I stand by everything I’ve posted. I apologize if you TRULY didn’t know about other genocides, or if your worldview has jaded you to the point where you don’t initially see posts that clearly illustrate what I said, at least in the abstract, and you took the time to go back and reread them and allow it to sink in.\n
          \n
          Feel free to pick apart this post, too. Nothing is more entertaining in a meme thread than for 2 idiots, myself included, to argue about genocide.🙂
          """
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          date: 2023-10-11 14:10:25.0 +02:00
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      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2204
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        +body: "Oversimplifing an empire being overthrown. Seems legit."
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2023-10-12 18:39:26.0 +02:00
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          date: 2023-10-12 18:39:26.0 +02:00
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2281
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        +body: "It’ll be a while before I can read further but I do intend to read all of it. In my biased opinion so far, i reads like a propaganda piece, the words seleceted in some of the passages are used to elicit a response, but maybe I’ll see differently as I continue. I do have a question, when you say “genocide”, are you also including open conflicts? It’s my understanding of the word that it would not, but I want to make sure, especially when numbers are involved, that we’re using the same metrics."
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2263
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        +body: """
          People. On a land mass. Wiped out. People. On a land mass. Wiped out.\n
          \n
          Yeah, I guess I see your point.
          """
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      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
      16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2034
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        +body: "You too buddy! Would enjoy having rational conversations, even note elsewhere in this thread that I’m taking the time to read American Holocaust, as I told myself “why should I ask someone to do something I’m not willing to do myself?” Granted, being close to 50 years old, it likely won’t change my mind, but I reason that if I do read this book, maybe I can better understand other’s worldview, and maybe, just maybe we can have civil conversations instead of the stupid fucking bickering that’s been going on in a… wait for it… meme thread!"
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
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        +body: "Oh, I stand corrected. A link to a Google doc. Should probably submit that to the Wikipedia article I linked as clearly thier information is flawed. You win an internet today."
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      date: 2023-10-09 13:23:41.0 +02:00
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     …2
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  +body: "And it’s written by a person, with an agenda and bias just like everyone else. Have a tough time taking anything seriously from someone affiliated with Ward Churchill."
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
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    +slug: "History"
    +title: "History"
    +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/be2234f5-922c-44d7-a193-c11380bdfa00.jpeg"
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    +children: [
      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2196
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +body: "Explain. How is it a false equivalent? Romans controlled the city / region for over a thousand years and were later conqured, and their land stolen, to use the vernacular of this thread."
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2324
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        +body: "So by that logic, the Turks should give Constantinople back to the Romans?"
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      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2307
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          +body: """
            For fucks sake… 1st off, whether or not this qualifies as a “meme”, it doesn’t fit the accepted norm of what most people expect to see when they click on “memes”\n
            \n
            Secondly, and this may sting a little, but peace as we know it is a relatively new thing in world history. I’ve seen a multitude of other comments here proclaiming all those other genocides were okay because they were thousands of years ago. It’s that “in my lifetime” mentality that just fucking grinds my gears. Through thousands of years of history, one genocide is cherry picked and held up as the worst ever, and the citizens who"benefitted" from it are supposed to pick up the tab? My ancestors weren’t Spanish or English, and my family has been here for about 130 years having come from Germany in 1890. How much of the tab am I supposed to pick up?\n
            \n
            Fact of the matter is, the only constant in human history is war. We’re in a (relatively) peaceful era now, and that’s taking into account Ukraine/Russia, Israel/Palestine, and probably another 20 or 30 wars I’m not up to speed on because I’m American and our media doesn’t seem to actually inform us on world events from countries we don’t buy shit from.
            """
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        +body: """
          Clever.\n
          \n
          I’m going through the sourced materials in the American Holocaust book, (great title, by the way! not divisive at all!), and considering the sources, it’s pretty obvious Stannard has an agenda, he’s a “cultural materialist”, an offshoot of cultural Marxism. But you knew that, you just didn’t think I’d look 😉\n
          \n
          Anyway, with as far as I’ve gotten, I can surmise the sources, the majority of them at least, point to textbooks published by “Berkley; University of California press”. Seems a lot of anti-American sentiment comes out of Berkley. Just to appease my curiosity, I’m going to look deeper into this fellow, who, funny enough, cites his own works as well. That’s pretty douchey
          """
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2349
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2042 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: """
          Ah, the internet…\n
          \n
          The phrase “That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), **but it’s still very different**” effectively translates to “Even though this happened, this is worse”.\n
          \n
          If you bothered to look at that list, you’ll note the mention of the California Genocide of 1846. Reported casualties between 9,492 and 16,094, with other estimates as high as 120,000. Absolutely fucking horrible and a black mark on American history indeed. However, there are 31 other genocides on that list that are higher in number, with three of those even happening prior to California-\n
          \n
          Dzungam 1755, 480,000-600,000 Taino 1492, 68,000-968,000 Albigensian 1209, 200,000-1,000,000\n
          \n
          I guess it depends on how you define “genocide”, but since Wikipedia is generally using the accepted definition, I feel pretty safe in going with what they say.\n
          \n
          And I did lay out proof, you’re just too caught up in whatever ideology to see it. Feel free to rebut, down vote, cry or whatever makes you feel better, but my point was the world is a horrible place, and terrible things happen to all kinds of groups of people. The “meme” that started all this IS a cherry picked reference to people who were wronged (I’m not disputing they were wronged, but so were… insert any other group of people here). Throughout history, most civilizations are founded on the conquering of another. As horrible as that is, it’s a fact. And after the fact, many of the remaining conqured are treated horribly. Also a fact.\n
          \n
          Lay out some real numbers, cite an authoritative source (sources) and then we can talk. Until then, I hope the best for you and really wish we could get past this bickering bullshit. Life is too short, and trying to pin the sins of one’s father on the current generation isn’t solving shit. Work toward bettering peoples lives without having to exact revenge from people who didn’t have fuck all to do with it.
          """
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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          date: 2023-10-11 17:56:07.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 41589
      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115}
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2224 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "Citing one book by someone with a clear agenda isn’t a good look either. You picked the fight, feel free to drop it at your leisure."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-10-11 22:01:33.0 +02:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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        -id: 41925
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          date: 2023-10-11 22:01:33.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41925
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "I agree with your points, and yes it’s a better perspective, however, that’s not the world we’re living in. There are some who are hell bent on wiping out continents of people due to any number of reasons ranging from beliefs to the exploitation of natural resources merely for financial gain. I really wish we did live in a world where the word “nuclear” invoked thoughts of clean(er), abundant and cheaper energy vs it invoking dread at the prospect of total annihilation."
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          date: 2023-10-11 13:43:35.0 +02:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-10-11 13:43:35.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41306
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2254
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2250 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +body: """
          Oh wait, my fault. I was responding to your comment “**We are still here**”\n
          \n
          Wasn’t sure which part of my anaolgy you weren’t getting. Now we can peacefully argue about that instead.\n
          \n
          **EDITED FOR TYPO
          """
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          date: 2023-10-12 20:52:28.0 +02:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        -id: 43749
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        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/comment/4361340"
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          date: 2023-10-12 21:23:04.0 +02:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697136748 {#2244
          date: 2023-10-12 20:52:28.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 43749
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2189
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2299 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: """
          You don’t have to apologize to me. If he’s someone who would collaborate with Ward Churchill, he’s got a clear agenda. My source for that was looking him up on Wikipedia, as I had no clue who he was. I’m not going to do the effort of sending you a direct link to the article, so feel free to do it yourself. And grant us all the fact that someone who writes a book has an implied agenda to sell the book.\n
          \n
          And every time you start a post with “Source?”, it’s a bad look.
          """
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          date: 2023-10-12 00:17:28.0 +02:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
        ]
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        -id: 42135
        -bodyTs: "'agenda':24,82 'apolog':6 'articl':59 'bad':99 'book':78,86 'churchil':18 'clear':23 'clue':39 'collabor':15 'direct':55 'effort':50 'everi':88 'fact':72 'feel':61 'free':62 'go':46 'got':21 'grant':68 'impli':81 'link':56 'look':30,100 'm':44 'post':93 'sell':84 'send':52 'someon':12,74 'sourc':26,95 'start':91 'time':89 'us':69 'ward':17 'wikipedia':34 'would':14 'write':76"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/comment/4331392"
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          date: 2023-10-12 00:17:28.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 42135
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "While I mostly agree, I never said constant war, but where I will disagree in a sense is, the prospect of total annihilation would have been a factor millennia ago had the technology been there. Pick your era, the Romans, the various Chinese dynasties, the English, etc… if they had the means, they would have likely used it, having zero regard for the impact it would have later, mostly due to a poor understanding of the technology. I do believe, at least between “the big three”, meaning the US, Russia and China, nuclear war is an extremely potent deterrent to all out war. It’s the “kids who want to be in the club” that worry me, everyone from NK to Israel. It sucks, but the atomic cat is out of the bag in a world we’re all forced to live in, and the polarization of politics and other bullshit only work to drive that wedge deeper and push us closer to… bad shit."
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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          date: 2023-10-10 22:52:49.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 40641
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: """
          As I’m too stupid and it’s to early for me to do these inline…\n
          \n
          Your 1st point, here’s one, had to scroll about 1/8 down the page for. Granted it doesn’t explicitly say it was “okay”, the point stands:\n
          \n
          > “China/Russia/Europe are largely inhabited by people whose ancestry traces back 1000s of years to the same region. That’s very different from North America, where most natives where killed (either through disease or “policy”).\n
          \n
          > That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), but it’s still very different.”\n
          \n
          As you also wanted to be pointed to a source for genocides on the same or larger scale throughout history, allow me to search Wikipedia for you:\n
          \n
          [en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides)\n
          \n
          As to point 3, who exactly determines who is responsible and who will benefit from this paln to raise up America’s indigenous population to their proper station? Are 1st generation immigrants from Ghana going to be required to pay up? How about Natives who’s ancestry dates back to a tribe that exterminated another tribe? Surely that should also qualify as genocide?\n
          \n
          And as to point 4, we, in the west, as I did point out I was American, are in a (**relatively**) peaceful time, which implies that throughout history it has not been, but I guess I need to spell it out for some people.\n
          \n
          At the end of the day, you’re not looking to be enlightened or to learn anything, your post was directed to completely discount my points, or to “*troll*” I will admit I was getting heated reading some of the off the wall bullshit I was seeing, but superlatives aside, I stand by everything I’ve posted. I apologize if you TRULY didn’t know about other genocides, or if your worldview has jaded you to the point where you don’t initially see posts that clearly illustrate what I said, at least in the abstract, and you took the time to go back and reread them and allow it to sink in.\n
          \n
          Feel free to pick apart this post, too. Nothing is more entertaining in a meme thread than for 2 idiots, myself included, to argue about genocide.🙂
          """
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          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/comment/4310786"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697026225 {#2036
          date: 2023-10-11 14:10:25.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41323
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2204
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2200 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +body: "Oversimplifing an empire being overthrown. Seems legit."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1697128766 {#2208
          date: 2023-10-12 18:39:26.0 +02:00
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          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
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        +body: "It’ll be a while before I can read further but I do intend to read all of it. In my biased opinion so far, i reads like a propaganda piece, the words seleceted in some of the passages are used to elicit a response, but maybe I’ll see differently as I continue. I do have a question, when you say “genocide”, are you also including open conflicts? It’s my understanding of the word that it would not, but I want to make sure, especially when numbers are involved, that we’re using the same metrics."
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      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2263
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        +body: """
          People. On a land mass. Wiped out. People. On a land mass. Wiped out.\n
          \n
          Yeah, I guess I see your point.
          """
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      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
      16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2034
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        +body: "You too buddy! Would enjoy having rational conversations, even note elsewhere in this thread that I’m taking the time to read American Holocaust, as I told myself “why should I ask someone to do something I’m not willing to do myself?” Granted, being close to 50 years old, it likely won’t change my mind, but I reason that if I do read this book, maybe I can better understand other’s worldview, and maybe, just maybe we can have civil conversations instead of the stupid fucking bickering that’s been going on in a… wait for it… meme thread!"
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
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        +body: "Oh, I stand corrected. A link to a Google doc. Should probably submit that to the Wikipedia article I linked as clearly thier information is flawed. You win an internet today."
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      date: 2023-10-09 13:23:41.0 +02:00
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     …2
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  +body: "And it’s written by a person, with an agenda and bias just like everyone else. Have a tough time taking anything seriously from someone affiliated with Ward Churchill."
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2196
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "Explain. How is it a false equivalent? Romans controlled the city / region for over a thousand years and were later conqured, and their land stolen, to use the vernacular of this thread."
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        +body: "So by that logic, the Turks should give Constantinople back to the Romans?"
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          +body: """
            For fucks sake… 1st off, whether or not this qualifies as a “meme”, it doesn’t fit the accepted norm of what most people expect to see when they click on “memes”\n
            \n
            Secondly, and this may sting a little, but peace as we know it is a relatively new thing in world history. I’ve seen a multitude of other comments here proclaiming all those other genocides were okay because they were thousands of years ago. It’s that “in my lifetime” mentality that just fucking grinds my gears. Through thousands of years of history, one genocide is cherry picked and held up as the worst ever, and the citizens who"benefitted" from it are supposed to pick up the tab? My ancestors weren’t Spanish or English, and my family has been here for about 130 years having come from Germany in 1890. How much of the tab am I supposed to pick up?\n
            \n
            Fact of the matter is, the only constant in human history is war. We’re in a (relatively) peaceful era now, and that’s taking into account Ukraine/Russia, Israel/Palestine, and probably another 20 or 30 wars I’m not up to speed on because I’m American and our media doesn’t seem to actually inform us on world events from countries we don’t buy shit from.
            """
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        +body: """
          Clever.\n
          \n
          I’m going through the sourced materials in the American Holocaust book, (great title, by the way! not divisive at all!), and considering the sources, it’s pretty obvious Stannard has an agenda, he’s a “cultural materialist”, an offshoot of cultural Marxism. But you knew that, you just didn’t think I’d look 😉\n
          \n
          Anyway, with as far as I’ve gotten, I can surmise the sources, the majority of them at least, point to textbooks published by “Berkley; University of California press”. Seems a lot of anti-American sentiment comes out of Berkley. Just to appease my curiosity, I’m going to look deeper into this fellow, who, funny enough, cites his own works as well. That’s pretty douchey
          """
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697064808 {#2310
          date: 2023-10-12 00:53:28.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 42180
      }
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2349
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: """
          Ah, the internet…\n
          \n
          The phrase “That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), **but it’s still very different**” effectively translates to “Even though this happened, this is worse”.\n
          \n
          If you bothered to look at that list, you’ll note the mention of the California Genocide of 1846. Reported casualties between 9,492 and 16,094, with other estimates as high as 120,000. Absolutely fucking horrible and a black mark on American history indeed. However, there are 31 other genocides on that list that are higher in number, with three of those even happening prior to California-\n
          \n
          Dzungam 1755, 480,000-600,000 Taino 1492, 68,000-968,000 Albigensian 1209, 200,000-1,000,000\n
          \n
          I guess it depends on how you define “genocide”, but since Wikipedia is generally using the accepted definition, I feel pretty safe in going with what they say.\n
          \n
          And I did lay out proof, you’re just too caught up in whatever ideology to see it. Feel free to rebut, down vote, cry or whatever makes you feel better, but my point was the world is a horrible place, and terrible things happen to all kinds of groups of people. The “meme” that started all this IS a cherry picked reference to people who were wronged (I’m not disputing they were wronged, but so were… insert any other group of people here). Throughout history, most civilizations are founded on the conquering of another. As horrible as that is, it’s a fact. And after the fact, many of the remaining conqured are treated horribly. Also a fact.\n
          \n
          Lay out some real numbers, cite an authoritative source (sources) and then we can talk. Until then, I hope the best for you and really wish we could get past this bickering bullshit. Life is too short, and trying to pin the sins of one’s father on the current generation isn’t solving shit. Work toward bettering peoples lives without having to exact revenge from people who didn’t have fuck all to do with it.
          """
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "And it’s written by a person, with an agenda and bias just like everyone else. Have a tough time taking anything seriously from someone affiliated with Ward Churchill."
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          date: 2023-10-11 21:46:08.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 41891
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215}
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024
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        +body: "I agree with your points, and yes it’s a better perspective, however, that’s not the world we’re living in. There are some who are hell bent on wiping out continents of people due to any number of reasons ranging from beliefs to the exploitation of natural resources merely for financial gain. I really wish we did live in a world where the word “nuclear” invoked thoughts of clean(er), abundant and cheaper energy vs it invoking dread at the prospect of total annihilation."
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works"
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          date: 2023-10-11 13:43:35.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 41306
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2254
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        +body: """
          Oh wait, my fault. I was responding to your comment “**We are still here**”\n
          \n
          Wasn’t sure which part of my anaolgy you weren’t getting. Now we can peacefully argue about that instead.\n
          \n
          **EDITED FOR TYPO
          """
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      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2189
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        +body: """
          You don’t have to apologize to me. If he’s someone who would collaborate with Ward Churchill, he’s got a clear agenda. My source for that was looking him up on Wikipedia, as I had no clue who he was. I’m not going to do the effort of sending you a direct link to the article, so feel free to do it yourself. And grant us all the fact that someone who writes a book has an implied agenda to sell the book.\n
          \n
          And every time you start a post with “Source?”, it’s a bad look.
          """
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      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383
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        +body: "While I mostly agree, I never said constant war, but where I will disagree in a sense is, the prospect of total annihilation would have been a factor millennia ago had the technology been there. Pick your era, the Romans, the various Chinese dynasties, the English, etc… if they had the means, they would have likely used it, having zero regard for the impact it would have later, mostly due to a poor understanding of the technology. I do believe, at least between “the big three”, meaning the US, Russia and China, nuclear war is an extremely potent deterrent to all out war. It’s the “kids who want to be in the club” that worry me, everyone from NK to Israel. It sucks, but the atomic cat is out of the bag in a world we’re all forced to live in, and the polarization of politics and other bullshit only work to drive that wedge deeper and push us closer to… bad shit."
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      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037
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        +body: """
          As I’m too stupid and it’s to early for me to do these inline…\n
          \n
          Your 1st point, here’s one, had to scroll about 1/8 down the page for. Granted it doesn’t explicitly say it was “okay”, the point stands:\n
          \n
          > “China/Russia/Europe are largely inhabited by people whose ancestry traces back 1000s of years to the same region. That’s very different from North America, where most natives where killed (either through disease or “policy”).\n
          \n
          > That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), but it’s still very different.”\n
          \n
          As you also wanted to be pointed to a source for genocides on the same or larger scale throughout history, allow me to search Wikipedia for you:\n
          \n
          [en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides)\n
          \n
          As to point 3, who exactly determines who is responsible and who will benefit from this paln to raise up America’s indigenous population to their proper station? Are 1st generation immigrants from Ghana going to be required to pay up? How about Natives who’s ancestry dates back to a tribe that exterminated another tribe? Surely that should also qualify as genocide?\n
          \n
          And as to point 4, we, in the west, as I did point out I was American, are in a (**relatively**) peaceful time, which implies that throughout history it has not been, but I guess I need to spell it out for some people.\n
          \n
          At the end of the day, you’re not looking to be enlightened or to learn anything, your post was directed to completely discount my points, or to “*troll*” I will admit I was getting heated reading some of the off the wall bullshit I was seeing, but superlatives aside, I stand by everything I’ve posted. I apologize if you TRULY didn’t know about other genocides, or if your worldview has jaded you to the point where you don’t initially see posts that clearly illustrate what I said, at least in the abstract, and you took the time to go back and reread them and allow it to sink in.\n
          \n
          Feel free to pick apart this post, too. Nothing is more entertaining in a meme thread than for 2 idiots, myself included, to argue about genocide.🙂
          """
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2204
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +body: "Oversimplifing an empire being overthrown. Seems legit."
        +lang: "en"
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          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        -bodyTs: "'empir':3 'legit':7 'oversimplif':1 'overthrown':5 'seem':6"
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2281
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        +body: "It’ll be a while before I can read further but I do intend to read all of it. In my biased opinion so far, i reads like a propaganda piece, the words seleceted in some of the passages are used to elicit a response, but maybe I’ll see differently as I continue. I do have a question, when you say “genocide”, are you also including open conflicts? It’s my understanding of the word that it would not, but I want to make sure, especially when numbers are involved, that we’re using the same metrics."
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
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      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2263
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        +body: """
          People. On a land mass. Wiped out. People. On a land mass. Wiped out.\n
          \n
          Yeah, I guess I see your point.
          """
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
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      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
      16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2034
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "You too buddy! Would enjoy having rational conversations, even note elsewhere in this thread that I’m taking the time to read American Holocaust, as I told myself “why should I ask someone to do something I’m not willing to do myself?” Granted, being close to 50 years old, it likely won’t change my mind, but I reason that if I do read this book, maybe I can better understand other’s worldview, and maybe, just maybe we can have civil conversations instead of the stupid fucking bickering that’s been going on in a… wait for it… meme thread!"
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
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        +body: "Oh, I stand corrected. A link to a Google doc. Should probably submit that to the Wikipedia article I linked as clearly thier information is flawed. You win an internet today."
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      date: 2023-10-09 13:23:41.0 +02:00
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     …2
  }
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  +body: "Citing one book by someone with a clear agenda isn’t a good look either. You picked the fight, feel free to drop it at your leisure."
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
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    +slug: "History"
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    +children: [
      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2196
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
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        +body: "Explain. How is it a false equivalent? Romans controlled the city / region for over a thousand years and were later conqured, and their land stolen, to use the vernacular of this thread."
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2324
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        +body: "So by that logic, the Turks should give Constantinople back to the Romans?"
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      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2307
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410
          +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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          +body: """
            For fucks sake… 1st off, whether or not this qualifies as a “meme”, it doesn’t fit the accepted norm of what most people expect to see when they click on “memes”\n
            \n
            Secondly, and this may sting a little, but peace as we know it is a relatively new thing in world history. I’ve seen a multitude of other comments here proclaiming all those other genocides were okay because they were thousands of years ago. It’s that “in my lifetime” mentality that just fucking grinds my gears. Through thousands of years of history, one genocide is cherry picked and held up as the worst ever, and the citizens who"benefitted" from it are supposed to pick up the tab? My ancestors weren’t Spanish or English, and my family has been here for about 130 years having come from Germany in 1890. How much of the tab am I supposed to pick up?\n
            \n
            Fact of the matter is, the only constant in human history is war. We’re in a (relatively) peaceful era now, and that’s taking into account Ukraine/Russia, Israel/Palestine, and probably another 20 or 30 wars I’m not up to speed on because I’m American and our media doesn’t seem to actually inform us on world events from countries we don’t buy shit from.
            """
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        +body: """
          Clever.\n
          \n
          I’m going through the sourced materials in the American Holocaust book, (great title, by the way! not divisive at all!), and considering the sources, it’s pretty obvious Stannard has an agenda, he’s a “cultural materialist”, an offshoot of cultural Marxism. But you knew that, you just didn’t think I’d look 😉\n
          \n
          Anyway, with as far as I’ve gotten, I can surmise the sources, the majority of them at least, point to textbooks published by “Berkley; University of California press”. Seems a lot of anti-American sentiment comes out of Berkley. Just to appease my curiosity, I’m going to look deeper into this fellow, who, funny enough, cites his own works as well. That’s pretty douchey
          """
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2349
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: """
          Ah, the internet…\n
          \n
          The phrase “That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), **but it’s still very different**” effectively translates to “Even though this happened, this is worse”.\n
          \n
          If you bothered to look at that list, you’ll note the mention of the California Genocide of 1846. Reported casualties between 9,492 and 16,094, with other estimates as high as 120,000. Absolutely fucking horrible and a black mark on American history indeed. However, there are 31 other genocides on that list that are higher in number, with three of those even happening prior to California-\n
          \n
          Dzungam 1755, 480,000-600,000 Taino 1492, 68,000-968,000 Albigensian 1209, 200,000-1,000,000\n
          \n
          I guess it depends on how you define “genocide”, but since Wikipedia is generally using the accepted definition, I feel pretty safe in going with what they say.\n
          \n
          And I did lay out proof, you’re just too caught up in whatever ideology to see it. Feel free to rebut, down vote, cry or whatever makes you feel better, but my point was the world is a horrible place, and terrible things happen to all kinds of groups of people. The “meme” that started all this IS a cherry picked reference to people who were wronged (I’m not disputing they were wronged, but so were… insert any other group of people here). Throughout history, most civilizations are founded on the conquering of another. As horrible as that is, it’s a fact. And after the fact, many of the remaining conqured are treated horribly. Also a fact.\n
          \n
          Lay out some real numbers, cite an authoritative source (sources) and then we can talk. Until then, I hope the best for you and really wish we could get past this bickering bullshit. Life is too short, and trying to pin the sins of one’s father on the current generation isn’t solving shit. Work toward bettering peoples lives without having to exact revenge from people who didn’t have fuck all to do with it.
          """
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "And it’s written by a person, with an agenda and bias just like everyone else. Have a tough time taking anything seriously from someone affiliated with Ward Churchill."
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      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215}
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024
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        +body: "I agree with your points, and yes it’s a better perspective, however, that’s not the world we’re living in. There are some who are hell bent on wiping out continents of people due to any number of reasons ranging from beliefs to the exploitation of natural resources merely for financial gain. I really wish we did live in a world where the word “nuclear” invoked thoughts of clean(er), abundant and cheaper energy vs it invoking dread at the prospect of total annihilation."
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        +"title": 41306
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2254
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: """
          Oh wait, my fault. I was responding to your comment “**We are still here**”\n
          \n
          Wasn’t sure which part of my anaolgy you weren’t getting. Now we can peacefully argue about that instead.\n
          \n
          **EDITED FOR TYPO
          """
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      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2189
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        +body: """
          You don’t have to apologize to me. If he’s someone who would collaborate with Ward Churchill, he’s got a clear agenda. My source for that was looking him up on Wikipedia, as I had no clue who he was. I’m not going to do the effort of sending you a direct link to the article, so feel free to do it yourself. And grant us all the fact that someone who writes a book has an implied agenda to sell the book.\n
          \n
          And every time you start a post with “Source?”, it’s a bad look.
          """
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      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383
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        +body: "While I mostly agree, I never said constant war, but where I will disagree in a sense is, the prospect of total annihilation would have been a factor millennia ago had the technology been there. Pick your era, the Romans, the various Chinese dynasties, the English, etc… if they had the means, they would have likely used it, having zero regard for the impact it would have later, mostly due to a poor understanding of the technology. I do believe, at least between “the big three”, meaning the US, Russia and China, nuclear war is an extremely potent deterrent to all out war. It’s the “kids who want to be in the club” that worry me, everyone from NK to Israel. It sucks, but the atomic cat is out of the bag in a world we’re all forced to live in, and the polarization of politics and other bullshit only work to drive that wedge deeper and push us closer to… bad shit."
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      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037
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        +body: """
          As I’m too stupid and it’s to early for me to do these inline…\n
          \n
          Your 1st point, here’s one, had to scroll about 1/8 down the page for. Granted it doesn’t explicitly say it was “okay”, the point stands:\n
          \n
          > “China/Russia/Europe are largely inhabited by people whose ancestry traces back 1000s of years to the same region. That’s very different from North America, where most natives where killed (either through disease or “policy”).\n
          \n
          > That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), but it’s still very different.”\n
          \n
          As you also wanted to be pointed to a source for genocides on the same or larger scale throughout history, allow me to search Wikipedia for you:\n
          \n
          [en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides)\n
          \n
          As to point 3, who exactly determines who is responsible and who will benefit from this paln to raise up America’s indigenous population to their proper station? Are 1st generation immigrants from Ghana going to be required to pay up? How about Natives who’s ancestry dates back to a tribe that exterminated another tribe? Surely that should also qualify as genocide?\n
          \n
          And as to point 4, we, in the west, as I did point out I was American, are in a (**relatively**) peaceful time, which implies that throughout history it has not been, but I guess I need to spell it out for some people.\n
          \n
          At the end of the day, you’re not looking to be enlightened or to learn anything, your post was directed to completely discount my points, or to “*troll*” I will admit I was getting heated reading some of the off the wall bullshit I was seeing, but superlatives aside, I stand by everything I’ve posted. I apologize if you TRULY didn’t know about other genocides, or if your worldview has jaded you to the point where you don’t initially see posts that clearly illustrate what I said, at least in the abstract, and you took the time to go back and reread them and allow it to sink in.\n
          \n
          Feel free to pick apart this post, too. Nothing is more entertaining in a meme thread than for 2 idiots, myself included, to argue about genocide.🙂
          """
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          date: 2023-10-11 14:10:25.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41323
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2204
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +body: "Oversimplifing an empire being overthrown. Seems legit."
        +lang: "en"
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          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        -id: 43459
        -bodyTs: "'empir':3 'legit':7 'oversimplif':1 'overthrown':5 'seem':6"
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          date: 2023-10-12 18:39:26.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 43459
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2281
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        +body: "It’ll be a while before I can read further but I do intend to read all of it. In my biased opinion so far, i reads like a propaganda piece, the words seleceted in some of the passages are used to elicit a response, but maybe I’ll see differently as I continue. I do have a question, when you say “genocide”, are you also including open conflicts? It’s my understanding of the word that it would not, but I want to make sure, especially when numbers are involved, that we’re using the same metrics."
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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        -bodyTs: "'also':66 'bias':22 'conflict':69 'continu':54 'differ':51 'elicit':43 'especi':87 'far':25 'genocid':63 'includ':67 'intend':14 'involv':91 'like':28 'll':2,49 'make':85 'mayb':47 'metric':98 'number':89 'open':68 'opinion':23 'passag':39 'piec':31 'propaganda':30 'question':59 're':94 'read':9,16,27 'respons':45 'say':62 'see':50 'selecet':34 'sure':86 'understand':73 'use':41,95 'want':83 'word':33,76 'would':79"
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          date: 2023-10-12 15:46:08.0 +02:00
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      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2263
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        +body: """
          People. On a land mass. Wiped out. People. On a land mass. Wiped out.\n
          \n
          Yeah, I guess I see your point.
          """
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          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
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        -id: 43560
        -bodyTs: "'guess':17 'land':4,11 'mass':5,12 'peopl':1,8 'point':21 'see':19 'wipe':6,13 'yeah':15"
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          date: 2023-10-12 19:25:03.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 43560
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      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
      16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2034
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +body: "You too buddy! Would enjoy having rational conversations, even note elsewhere in this thread that I’m taking the time to read American Holocaust, as I told myself “why should I ask someone to do something I’m not willing to do myself?” Granted, being close to 50 years old, it likely won’t change my mind, but I reason that if I do read this book, maybe I can better understand other’s worldview, and maybe, just maybe we can have civil conversations instead of the stupid fucking bickering that’s been going on in a… wait for it… meme thread!"
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          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
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        +"title": 43916
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2045 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "Oh, I stand corrected. A link to a Google doc. Should probably submit that to the Wikipedia article I linked as clearly thier information is flawed. You win an internet today."
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    ]
    -id: 3914
    -titleTs: "'histori':1"
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      date: 2023-10-09 13:23:41.0 +02:00
    }
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     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
  +body: "Citing one book by someone with a clear agenda isn’t a good look either. You picked the fight, feel free to drop it at your leisure."
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  +"title": 41925
}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
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    +slug: "History"
    +title: "History"
    +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/be2234f5-922c-44d7-a193-c11380bdfa00.jpeg"
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    +children: [
      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2196
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +body: "Explain. How is it a false equivalent? Romans controlled the city / region for over a thousand years and were later conqured, and their land stolen, to use the vernacular of this thread."
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2324
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        +body: "So by that logic, the Turks should give Constantinople back to the Romans?"
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      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2307
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        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410
          +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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          +body: """
            For fucks sake… 1st off, whether or not this qualifies as a “meme”, it doesn’t fit the accepted norm of what most people expect to see when they click on “memes”\n
            \n
            Secondly, and this may sting a little, but peace as we know it is a relatively new thing in world history. I’ve seen a multitude of other comments here proclaiming all those other genocides were okay because they were thousands of years ago. It’s that “in my lifetime” mentality that just fucking grinds my gears. Through thousands of years of history, one genocide is cherry picked and held up as the worst ever, and the citizens who"benefitted" from it are supposed to pick up the tab? My ancestors weren’t Spanish or English, and my family has been here for about 130 years having come from Germany in 1890. How much of the tab am I supposed to pick up?\n
            \n
            Fact of the matter is, the only constant in human history is war. We’re in a (relatively) peaceful era now, and that’s taking into account Ukraine/Russia, Israel/Palestine, and probably another 20 or 30 wars I’m not up to speed on because I’m American and our media doesn’t seem to actually inform us on world events from countries we don’t buy shit from.
            """
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            date: 2023-10-10 19:45:38.0 +02:00
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          +"title": 40337
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        +body: """
          Clever.\n
          \n
          I’m going through the sourced materials in the American Holocaust book, (great title, by the way! not divisive at all!), and considering the sources, it’s pretty obvious Stannard has an agenda, he’s a “cultural materialist”, an offshoot of cultural Marxism. But you knew that, you just didn’t think I’d look 😉\n
          \n
          Anyway, with as far as I’ve gotten, I can surmise the sources, the majority of them at least, point to textbooks published by “Berkley; University of California press”. Seems a lot of anti-American sentiment comes out of Berkley. Just to appease my curiosity, I’m going to look deeper into this fellow, who, funny enough, cites his own works as well. That’s pretty douchey
          """
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2349
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: """
          Ah, the internet…\n
          \n
          The phrase “That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), **but it’s still very different**” effectively translates to “Even though this happened, this is worse”.\n
          \n
          If you bothered to look at that list, you’ll note the mention of the California Genocide of 1846. Reported casualties between 9,492 and 16,094, with other estimates as high as 120,000. Absolutely fucking horrible and a black mark on American history indeed. However, there are 31 other genocides on that list that are higher in number, with three of those even happening prior to California-\n
          \n
          Dzungam 1755, 480,000-600,000 Taino 1492, 68,000-968,000 Albigensian 1209, 200,000-1,000,000\n
          \n
          I guess it depends on how you define “genocide”, but since Wikipedia is generally using the accepted definition, I feel pretty safe in going with what they say.\n
          \n
          And I did lay out proof, you’re just too caught up in whatever ideology to see it. Feel free to rebut, down vote, cry or whatever makes you feel better, but my point was the world is a horrible place, and terrible things happen to all kinds of groups of people. The “meme” that started all this IS a cherry picked reference to people who were wronged (I’m not disputing they were wronged, but so were… insert any other group of people here). Throughout history, most civilizations are founded on the conquering of another. As horrible as that is, it’s a fact. And after the fact, many of the remaining conqured are treated horribly. Also a fact.\n
          \n
          Lay out some real numbers, cite an authoritative source (sources) and then we can talk. Until then, I hope the best for you and really wish we could get past this bickering bullshit. Life is too short, and trying to pin the sins of one’s father on the current generation isn’t solving shit. Work toward bettering peoples lives without having to exact revenge from people who didn’t have fuck all to do with it.
          """
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "And it’s written by a person, with an agenda and bias just like everyone else. Have a tough time taking anything seriously from someone affiliated with Ward Churchill."
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      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215}
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "I agree with your points, and yes it’s a better perspective, however, that’s not the world we’re living in. There are some who are hell bent on wiping out continents of people due to any number of reasons ranging from beliefs to the exploitation of natural resources merely for financial gain. I really wish we did live in a world where the word “nuclear” invoked thoughts of clean(er), abundant and cheaper energy vs it invoking dread at the prospect of total annihilation."
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          date: 2023-10-11 13:43:35.0 +02:00
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works"
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        +"title": 41306
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2254
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: """
          Oh wait, my fault. I was responding to your comment “**We are still here**”\n
          \n
          Wasn’t sure which part of my anaolgy you weren’t getting. Now we can peacefully argue about that instead.\n
          \n
          **EDITED FOR TYPO
          """
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      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2189
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        +body: """
          You don’t have to apologize to me. If he’s someone who would collaborate with Ward Churchill, he’s got a clear agenda. My source for that was looking him up on Wikipedia, as I had no clue who he was. I’m not going to do the effort of sending you a direct link to the article, so feel free to do it yourself. And grant us all the fact that someone who writes a book has an implied agenda to sell the book.\n
          \n
          And every time you start a post with “Source?”, it’s a bad look.
          """
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      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383
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        +body: "While I mostly agree, I never said constant war, but where I will disagree in a sense is, the prospect of total annihilation would have been a factor millennia ago had the technology been there. Pick your era, the Romans, the various Chinese dynasties, the English, etc… if they had the means, they would have likely used it, having zero regard for the impact it would have later, mostly due to a poor understanding of the technology. I do believe, at least between “the big three”, meaning the US, Russia and China, nuclear war is an extremely potent deterrent to all out war. It’s the “kids who want to be in the club” that worry me, everyone from NK to Israel. It sucks, but the atomic cat is out of the bag in a world we’re all forced to live in, and the polarization of politics and other bullshit only work to drive that wedge deeper and push us closer to… bad shit."
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      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: """
          As I’m too stupid and it’s to early for me to do these inline…\n
          \n
          Your 1st point, here’s one, had to scroll about 1/8 down the page for. Granted it doesn’t explicitly say it was “okay”, the point stands:\n
          \n
          > “China/Russia/Europe are largely inhabited by people whose ancestry traces back 1000s of years to the same region. That’s very different from North America, where most natives where killed (either through disease or “policy”).\n
          \n
          > That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), but it’s still very different.”\n
          \n
          As you also wanted to be pointed to a source for genocides on the same or larger scale throughout history, allow me to search Wikipedia for you:\n
          \n
          [en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides)\n
          \n
          As to point 3, who exactly determines who is responsible and who will benefit from this paln to raise up America’s indigenous population to their proper station? Are 1st generation immigrants from Ghana going to be required to pay up? How about Natives who’s ancestry dates back to a tribe that exterminated another tribe? Surely that should also qualify as genocide?\n
          \n
          And as to point 4, we, in the west, as I did point out I was American, are in a (**relatively**) peaceful time, which implies that throughout history it has not been, but I guess I need to spell it out for some people.\n
          \n
          At the end of the day, you’re not looking to be enlightened or to learn anything, your post was directed to completely discount my points, or to “*troll*” I will admit I was getting heated reading some of the off the wall bullshit I was seeing, but superlatives aside, I stand by everything I’ve posted. I apologize if you TRULY didn’t know about other genocides, or if your worldview has jaded you to the point where you don’t initially see posts that clearly illustrate what I said, at least in the abstract, and you took the time to go back and reread them and allow it to sink in.\n
          \n
          Feel free to pick apart this post, too. Nothing is more entertaining in a meme thread than for 2 idiots, myself included, to argue about genocide.🙂
          """
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2204
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        +body: "Oversimplifing an empire being overthrown. Seems legit."
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        +body: "It’ll be a while before I can read further but I do intend to read all of it. In my biased opinion so far, i reads like a propaganda piece, the words seleceted in some of the passages are used to elicit a response, but maybe I’ll see differently as I continue. I do have a question, when you say “genocide”, are you also including open conflicts? It’s my understanding of the word that it would not, but I want to make sure, especially when numbers are involved, that we’re using the same metrics."
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        +body: """
          People. On a land mass. Wiped out. People. On a land mass. Wiped out.\n
          \n
          Yeah, I guess I see your point.
          """
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      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
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        +body: "You too buddy! Would enjoy having rational conversations, even note elsewhere in this thread that I’m taking the time to read American Holocaust, as I told myself “why should I ask someone to do something I’m not willing to do myself?” Granted, being close to 50 years old, it likely won’t change my mind, but I reason that if I do read this book, maybe I can better understand other’s worldview, and maybe, just maybe we can have civil conversations instead of the stupid fucking bickering that’s been going on in a… wait for it… meme thread!"
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        +body: "Oh, I stand corrected. A link to a Google doc. Should probably submit that to the Wikipedia article I linked as clearly thier information is flawed. You win an internet today."
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     …2
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  +body: "Citing one book by someone with a clear agenda isn’t a good look either. You picked the fight, feel free to drop it at your leisure."
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2196
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        +body: "Explain. How is it a false equivalent? Romans controlled the city / region for over a thousand years and were later conqured, and their land stolen, to use the vernacular of this thread."
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        +body: "So by that logic, the Turks should give Constantinople back to the Romans?"
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          +body: """
            For fucks sake… 1st off, whether or not this qualifies as a “meme”, it doesn’t fit the accepted norm of what most people expect to see when they click on “memes”\n
            \n
            Secondly, and this may sting a little, but peace as we know it is a relatively new thing in world history. I’ve seen a multitude of other comments here proclaiming all those other genocides were okay because they were thousands of years ago. It’s that “in my lifetime” mentality that just fucking grinds my gears. Through thousands of years of history, one genocide is cherry picked and held up as the worst ever, and the citizens who"benefitted" from it are supposed to pick up the tab? My ancestors weren’t Spanish or English, and my family has been here for about 130 years having come from Germany in 1890. How much of the tab am I supposed to pick up?\n
            \n
            Fact of the matter is, the only constant in human history is war. We’re in a (relatively) peaceful era now, and that’s taking into account Ukraine/Russia, Israel/Palestine, and probably another 20 or 30 wars I’m not up to speed on because I’m American and our media doesn’t seem to actually inform us on world events from countries we don’t buy shit from.
            """
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            date: 2023-10-10 19:45:38.0 +02:00
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        +body: """
          Clever.\n
          \n
          I’m going through the sourced materials in the American Holocaust book, (great title, by the way! not divisive at all!), and considering the sources, it’s pretty obvious Stannard has an agenda, he’s a “cultural materialist”, an offshoot of cultural Marxism. But you knew that, you just didn’t think I’d look 😉\n
          \n
          Anyway, with as far as I’ve gotten, I can surmise the sources, the majority of them at least, point to textbooks published by “Berkley; University of California press”. Seems a lot of anti-American sentiment comes out of Berkley. Just to appease my curiosity, I’m going to look deeper into this fellow, who, funny enough, cites his own works as well. That’s pretty douchey
          """
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2349
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        +body: """
          Ah, the internet…\n
          \n
          The phrase “That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), **but it’s still very different**” effectively translates to “Even though this happened, this is worse”.\n
          \n
          If you bothered to look at that list, you’ll note the mention of the California Genocide of 1846. Reported casualties between 9,492 and 16,094, with other estimates as high as 120,000. Absolutely fucking horrible and a black mark on American history indeed. However, there are 31 other genocides on that list that are higher in number, with three of those even happening prior to California-\n
          \n
          Dzungam 1755, 480,000-600,000 Taino 1492, 68,000-968,000 Albigensian 1209, 200,000-1,000,000\n
          \n
          I guess it depends on how you define “genocide”, but since Wikipedia is generally using the accepted definition, I feel pretty safe in going with what they say.\n
          \n
          And I did lay out proof, you’re just too caught up in whatever ideology to see it. Feel free to rebut, down vote, cry or whatever makes you feel better, but my point was the world is a horrible place, and terrible things happen to all kinds of groups of people. The “meme” that started all this IS a cherry picked reference to people who were wronged (I’m not disputing they were wronged, but so were… insert any other group of people here). Throughout history, most civilizations are founded on the conquering of another. As horrible as that is, it’s a fact. And after the fact, many of the remaining conqured are treated horribly. Also a fact.\n
          \n
          Lay out some real numbers, cite an authoritative source (sources) and then we can talk. Until then, I hope the best for you and really wish we could get past this bickering bullshit. Life is too short, and trying to pin the sins of one’s father on the current generation isn’t solving shit. Work toward bettering peoples lives without having to exact revenge from people who didn’t have fuck all to do with it.
          """
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "And it’s written by a person, with an agenda and bias just like everyone else. Have a tough time taking anything seriously from someone affiliated with Ward Churchill."
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      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "Citing one book by someone with a clear agenda isn’t a good look either. You picked the fight, feel free to drop it at your leisure."
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2023-10-11 22:01:33.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 41925
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      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024}
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2254
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: """
          Oh wait, my fault. I was responding to your comment “**We are still here**”\n
          \n
          Wasn’t sure which part of my anaolgy you weren’t getting. Now we can peacefully argue about that instead.\n
          \n
          **EDITED FOR TYPO
          """
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      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2189
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          You don’t have to apologize to me. If he’s someone who would collaborate with Ward Churchill, he’s got a clear agenda. My source for that was looking him up on Wikipedia, as I had no clue who he was. I’m not going to do the effort of sending you a direct link to the article, so feel free to do it yourself. And grant us all the fact that someone who writes a book has an implied agenda to sell the book.\n
          \n
          And every time you start a post with “Source?”, it’s a bad look.
          """
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      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383
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        +body: "While I mostly agree, I never said constant war, but where I will disagree in a sense is, the prospect of total annihilation would have been a factor millennia ago had the technology been there. Pick your era, the Romans, the various Chinese dynasties, the English, etc… if they had the means, they would have likely used it, having zero regard for the impact it would have later, mostly due to a poor understanding of the technology. I do believe, at least between “the big three”, meaning the US, Russia and China, nuclear war is an extremely potent deterrent to all out war. It’s the “kids who want to be in the club” that worry me, everyone from NK to Israel. It sucks, but the atomic cat is out of the bag in a world we’re all forced to live in, and the polarization of politics and other bullshit only work to drive that wedge deeper and push us closer to… bad shit."
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          "@ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works"
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      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: """
          As I’m too stupid and it’s to early for me to do these inline…\n
          \n
          Your 1st point, here’s one, had to scroll about 1/8 down the page for. Granted it doesn’t explicitly say it was “okay”, the point stands:\n
          \n
          > “China/Russia/Europe are largely inhabited by people whose ancestry traces back 1000s of years to the same region. That’s very different from North America, where most natives where killed (either through disease or “policy”).\n
          \n
          > That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), but it’s still very different.”\n
          \n
          As you also wanted to be pointed to a source for genocides on the same or larger scale throughout history, allow me to search Wikipedia for you:\n
          \n
          [en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides)\n
          \n
          As to point 3, who exactly determines who is responsible and who will benefit from this paln to raise up America’s indigenous population to their proper station? Are 1st generation immigrants from Ghana going to be required to pay up? How about Natives who’s ancestry dates back to a tribe that exterminated another tribe? Surely that should also qualify as genocide?\n
          \n
          And as to point 4, we, in the west, as I did point out I was American, are in a (**relatively**) peaceful time, which implies that throughout history it has not been, but I guess I need to spell it out for some people.\n
          \n
          At the end of the day, you’re not looking to be enlightened or to learn anything, your post was directed to completely discount my points, or to “*troll*” I will admit I was getting heated reading some of the off the wall bullshit I was seeing, but superlatives aside, I stand by everything I’ve posted. I apologize if you TRULY didn’t know about other genocides, or if your worldview has jaded you to the point where you don’t initially see posts that clearly illustrate what I said, at least in the abstract, and you took the time to go back and reread them and allow it to sink in.\n
          \n
          Feel free to pick apart this post, too. Nothing is more entertaining in a meme thread than for 2 idiots, myself included, to argue about genocide.🙂
          """
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2204
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        +body: "Oversimplifing an empire being overthrown. Seems legit."
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        +body: "It’ll be a while before I can read further but I do intend to read all of it. In my biased opinion so far, i reads like a propaganda piece, the words seleceted in some of the passages are used to elicit a response, but maybe I’ll see differently as I continue. I do have a question, when you say “genocide”, are you also including open conflicts? It’s my understanding of the word that it would not, but I want to make sure, especially when numbers are involved, that we’re using the same metrics."
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        +body: """
          People. On a land mass. Wiped out. People. On a land mass. Wiped out.\n
          \n
          Yeah, I guess I see your point.
          """
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        +body: "You too buddy! Would enjoy having rational conversations, even note elsewhere in this thread that I’m taking the time to read American Holocaust, as I told myself “why should I ask someone to do something I’m not willing to do myself?” Granted, being close to 50 years old, it likely won’t change my mind, but I reason that if I do read this book, maybe I can better understand other’s worldview, and maybe, just maybe we can have civil conversations instead of the stupid fucking bickering that’s been going on in a… wait for it… meme thread!"
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        +body: "Oh, I stand corrected. A link to a Google doc. Should probably submit that to the Wikipedia article I linked as clearly thier information is flawed. You win an internet today."
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  +body: "I agree with your points, and yes it’s a better perspective, however, that’s not the world we’re living in. There are some who are hell bent on wiping out continents of people due to any number of reasons ranging from beliefs to the exploitation of natural resources merely for financial gain. I really wish we did live in a world where the word “nuclear” invoked thoughts of clean(er), abundant and cheaper energy vs it invoking dread at the prospect of total annihilation."
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2196
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        +body: "Explain. How is it a false equivalent? Romans controlled the city / region for over a thousand years and were later conqured, and their land stolen, to use the vernacular of this thread."
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2324
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        +body: "So by that logic, the Turks should give Constantinople back to the Romans?"
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410
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          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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          +body: """
            For fucks sake… 1st off, whether or not this qualifies as a “meme”, it doesn’t fit the accepted norm of what most people expect to see when they click on “memes”\n
            \n
            Secondly, and this may sting a little, but peace as we know it is a relatively new thing in world history. I’ve seen a multitude of other comments here proclaiming all those other genocides were okay because they were thousands of years ago. It’s that “in my lifetime” mentality that just fucking grinds my gears. Through thousands of years of history, one genocide is cherry picked and held up as the worst ever, and the citizens who"benefitted" from it are supposed to pick up the tab? My ancestors weren’t Spanish or English, and my family has been here for about 130 years having come from Germany in 1890. How much of the tab am I supposed to pick up?\n
            \n
            Fact of the matter is, the only constant in human history is war. We’re in a (relatively) peaceful era now, and that’s taking into account Ukraine/Russia, Israel/Palestine, and probably another 20 or 30 wars I’m not up to speed on because I’m American and our media doesn’t seem to actually inform us on world events from countries we don’t buy shit from.
            """
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            date: 2023-10-12 15:46:11.0 +02:00
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            "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          ]
          +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1907 …}
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          -id: 40337
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          +ranking: 0
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          +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/comment/4277341"
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          +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1696959938 {#1926
            date: 2023-10-10 19:45:38.0 +02:00
          }
          +"title": 40337
        }
        +body: """
          Clever.\n
          \n
          I’m going through the sourced materials in the American Holocaust book, (great title, by the way! not divisive at all!), and considering the sources, it’s pretty obvious Stannard has an agenda, he’s a “cultural materialist”, an offshoot of cultural Marxism. But you knew that, you just didn’t think I’d look 😉\n
          \n
          Anyway, with as far as I’ve gotten, I can surmise the sources, the majority of them at least, point to textbooks published by “Berkley; University of California press”. Seems a lot of anti-American sentiment comes out of Berkley. Just to appease my curiosity, I’m going to look deeper into this fellow, who, funny enough, cites his own works as well. That’s pretty douchey
          """
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
        ]
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        -id: 42180
        -bodyTs: "'agenda':34 'american':11,92 'anti':91 'anti-american':90 'anyway':57 'appeas':100 'berkley':81,97 'book':13 'california':84 'cite':115 'clever':1 'come':94 'consid':24 'cultur':38,43 'curios':102 'd':55 'deeper':108 'didn':51 'divis':20 'douchey':124 'enough':114 'far':60 'fellow':111 'funni':113 'go':4,105 'gotten':64 'great':14 'holocaust':12 'knew':47 'least':75 'look':56,107 'lot':88 'm':3,104 'major':71 'marxism':44 'materi':8 'materialist':39 'obvious':30 'offshoot':41 'point':76 'press':85 'pretti':29,123 'publish':79 'seem':86 'sentiment':93 'sourc':7,26,69 'stannard':31 'surmis':67 'textbook':78 'think':53 'titl':15 'univers':82 've':63 'way':18 'well':120 'work':118"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-10-12 00:53:28.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 42180
      }
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2349
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2042 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: """
          Ah, the internet…\n
          \n
          The phrase “That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), **but it’s still very different**” effectively translates to “Even though this happened, this is worse”.\n
          \n
          If you bothered to look at that list, you’ll note the mention of the California Genocide of 1846. Reported casualties between 9,492 and 16,094, with other estimates as high as 120,000. Absolutely fucking horrible and a black mark on American history indeed. However, there are 31 other genocides on that list that are higher in number, with three of those even happening prior to California-\n
          \n
          Dzungam 1755, 480,000-600,000 Taino 1492, 68,000-968,000 Albigensian 1209, 200,000-1,000,000\n
          \n
          I guess it depends on how you define “genocide”, but since Wikipedia is generally using the accepted definition, I feel pretty safe in going with what they say.\n
          \n
          And I did lay out proof, you’re just too caught up in whatever ideology to see it. Feel free to rebut, down vote, cry or whatever makes you feel better, but my point was the world is a horrible place, and terrible things happen to all kinds of groups of people. The “meme” that started all this IS a cherry picked reference to people who were wronged (I’m not disputing they were wronged, but so were… insert any other group of people here). Throughout history, most civilizations are founded on the conquering of another. As horrible as that is, it’s a fact. And after the fact, many of the remaining conqured are treated horribly. Also a fact.\n
          \n
          Lay out some real numbers, cite an authoritative source (sources) and then we can talk. Until then, I hope the best for you and really wish we could get past this bickering bullshit. Life is too short, and trying to pin the sins of one’s father on the current generation isn’t solving shit. Work toward bettering peoples lives without having to exact revenge from people who didn’t have fuck all to do with it.
          """
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
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        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/comment/4318059"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697039767 {#2344
          date: 2023-10-11 17:56:07.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41589
      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2113 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "And it’s written by a person, with an agenda and bias just like everyone else. Have a tough time taking anything seriously from someone affiliated with Ward Churchill."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
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          date: 2023-10-11 21:46:08.0 +02:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2123 …}
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        -id: 41891
        -bodyTs: "'affili':26 'agenda':10 'anyth':22 'bias':12 'churchil':29 'els':16 'everyon':15 'like':14 'person':7 'serious':23 'someon':25 'take':21 'time':20 'tough':19 'ward':28 'written':4"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-10-11 21:46:08.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41891
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2224 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "Citing one book by someone with a clear agenda isn’t a good look either. You picked the fight, feel free to drop it at your leisure."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
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          date: 2023-10-11 22:01:33.0 +02:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2198 …}
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        -id: 41925
        -bodyTs: "'agenda':9 'book':3 'cite':1 'clear':8 'drop':23 'either':15 'feel':20 'fight':19 'free':21 'good':13 'isn':10 'leisur':27 'look':14 'one':2 'pick':17 'someon':5"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/comment/4327224"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697054493 {#2139
          date: 2023-10-11 22:01:33.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41925
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024}
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2254
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2250 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +body: """
          Oh wait, my fault. I was responding to your comment “**We are still here**”\n
          \n
          Wasn’t sure which part of my anaolgy you weren’t getting. Now we can peacefully argue about that instead.\n
          \n
          **EDITED FOR TYPO
          """
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          date: 2023-10-12 20:52:28.0 +02:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/comment/4361340"
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          date: 2023-10-12 21:23:04.0 +02:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697136748 {#2244
          date: 2023-10-12 20:52:28.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 43749
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2189
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2299 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: """
          You don’t have to apologize to me. If he’s someone who would collaborate with Ward Churchill, he’s got a clear agenda. My source for that was looking him up on Wikipedia, as I had no clue who he was. I’m not going to do the effort of sending you a direct link to the article, so feel free to do it yourself. And grant us all the fact that someone who writes a book has an implied agenda to sell the book.\n
          \n
          And every time you start a post with “Source?”, it’s a bad look.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
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          date: 2023-10-12 00:17:28.0 +02:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2311 …}
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        -id: 42135
        -bodyTs: "'agenda':24,82 'apolog':6 'articl':59 'bad':99 'book':78,86 'churchil':18 'clear':23 'clue':39 'collabor':15 'direct':55 'effort':50 'everi':88 'fact':72 'feel':61 'free':62 'go':46 'got':21 'grant':68 'impli':81 'link':56 'look':30,100 'm':44 'post':93 'sell':84 'send':52 'someon':12,74 'sourc':26,95 'start':91 'time':89 'us':69 'ward':17 'wikipedia':34 'would':14 'write':76"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/comment/4331392"
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          date: 2023-10-12 00:17:28.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 42135
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1402 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "While I mostly agree, I never said constant war, but where I will disagree in a sense is, the prospect of total annihilation would have been a factor millennia ago had the technology been there. Pick your era, the Romans, the various Chinese dynasties, the English, etc… if they had the means, they would have likely used it, having zero regard for the impact it would have later, mostly due to a poor understanding of the technology. I do believe, at least between “the big three”, meaning the US, Russia and China, nuclear war is an extremely potent deterrent to all out war. It’s the “kids who want to be in the club” that worry me, everyone from NK to Israel. It sucks, but the atomic cat is out of the bag in a world we’re all forced to live in, and the polarization of politics and other bullshit only work to drive that wedge deeper and push us closer to… bad shit."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
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          date: 2023-10-10 22:52:49.0 +02:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1405 …}
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        -id: 40641
        -bodyTs: "'ago':30 'agre':4 'annihil':23 'atom':127 'bad':164 'bag':133 'believ':80 'big':85 'bullshit':151 'cat':128 'china':92 'chines':43 'closer':162 'club':114 'constant':8 'deeper':158 'deterr':99 'disagre':14 'drive':155 'due':70 'dynasti':44 'english':46 'era':38 'etc':47 'everyon':118 'extrem':97 'factor':28 'forc':140 'impact':64 'israel':122 'kid':107 'later':68 'least':82 'like':56 'live':142 'mean':52,87 'millennia':29 'most':3,69 'never':6 'nk':120 'nuclear':93 'pick':36 'polar':146 'polit':148 'poor':73 'potent':98 'prospect':20 'push':160 're':138 'regard':61 'roman':40 'russia':90 'said':7 'sens':17 'shit':165 'suck':124 'technolog':33,77 'three':86 'total':22 'understand':74 'us':89,161 'use':57 'various':42 'want':109 'war':9,94,103 'wedg':157 'work':153 'world':136 'worri':116 'would':24,54,66 'zero':60"
        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/comment/4285084"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1696971169 {#1381
          date: 2023-10-10 22:52:49.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 40641
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: """
          As I’m too stupid and it’s to early for me to do these inline…\n
          \n
          Your 1st point, here’s one, had to scroll about 1/8 down the page for. Granted it doesn’t explicitly say it was “okay”, the point stands:\n
          \n
          > “China/Russia/Europe are largely inhabited by people whose ancestry traces back 1000s of years to the same region. That’s very different from North America, where most natives where killed (either through disease or “policy”).\n
          \n
          > That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), but it’s still very different.”\n
          \n
          As you also wanted to be pointed to a source for genocides on the same or larger scale throughout history, allow me to search Wikipedia for you:\n
          \n
          [en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides)\n
          \n
          As to point 3, who exactly determines who is responsible and who will benefit from this paln to raise up America’s indigenous population to their proper station? Are 1st generation immigrants from Ghana going to be required to pay up? How about Natives who’s ancestry dates back to a tribe that exterminated another tribe? Surely that should also qualify as genocide?\n
          \n
          And as to point 4, we, in the west, as I did point out I was American, are in a (**relatively**) peaceful time, which implies that throughout history it has not been, but I guess I need to spell it out for some people.\n
          \n
          At the end of the day, you’re not looking to be enlightened or to learn anything, your post was directed to completely discount my points, or to “*troll*” I will admit I was getting heated reading some of the off the wall bullshit I was seeing, but superlatives aside, I stand by everything I’ve posted. I apologize if you TRULY didn’t know about other genocides, or if your worldview has jaded you to the point where you don’t initially see posts that clearly illustrate what I said, at least in the abstract, and you took the time to go back and reread them and allow it to sink in.\n
          \n
          Feel free to pick apart this post, too. Nothing is more entertaining in a meme thread than for 2 idiots, myself included, to argue about genocide.🙂
          """
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2204
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        +body: "Oversimplifing an empire being overthrown. Seems legit."
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        +body: "It’ll be a while before I can read further but I do intend to read all of it. In my biased opinion so far, i reads like a propaganda piece, the words seleceted in some of the passages are used to elicit a response, but maybe I’ll see differently as I continue. I do have a question, when you say “genocide”, are you also including open conflicts? It’s my understanding of the word that it would not, but I want to make sure, especially when numbers are involved, that we’re using the same metrics."
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        +body: """
          People. On a land mass. Wiped out. People. On a land mass. Wiped out.\n
          \n
          Yeah, I guess I see your point.
          """
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        +body: "You too buddy! Would enjoy having rational conversations, even note elsewhere in this thread that I’m taking the time to read American Holocaust, as I told myself “why should I ask someone to do something I’m not willing to do myself?” Granted, being close to 50 years old, it likely won’t change my mind, but I reason that if I do read this book, maybe I can better understand other’s worldview, and maybe, just maybe we can have civil conversations instead of the stupid fucking bickering that’s been going on in a… wait for it… meme thread!"
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        +body: "Oh, I stand corrected. A link to a Google doc. Should probably submit that to the Wikipedia article I linked as clearly thier information is flawed. You win an internet today."
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  +body: "I agree with your points, and yes it’s a better perspective, however, that’s not the world we’re living in. There are some who are hell bent on wiping out continents of people due to any number of reasons ranging from beliefs to the exploitation of natural resources merely for financial gain. I really wish we did live in a world where the word “nuclear” invoked thoughts of clean(er), abundant and cheaper energy vs it invoking dread at the prospect of total annihilation."
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2196
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        +body: "Explain. How is it a false equivalent? Romans controlled the city / region for over a thousand years and were later conqured, and their land stolen, to use the vernacular of this thread."
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2324
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        +body: "So by that logic, the Turks should give Constantinople back to the Romans?"
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          date: 2023-10-11 18:33:20.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41637
      }
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2307
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2306 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410
          +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
          +image: null
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          +body: """
            For fucks sake… 1st off, whether or not this qualifies as a “meme”, it doesn’t fit the accepted norm of what most people expect to see when they click on “memes”\n
            \n
            Secondly, and this may sting a little, but peace as we know it is a relatively new thing in world history. I’ve seen a multitude of other comments here proclaiming all those other genocides were okay because they were thousands of years ago. It’s that “in my lifetime” mentality that just fucking grinds my gears. Through thousands of years of history, one genocide is cherry picked and held up as the worst ever, and the citizens who"benefitted" from it are supposed to pick up the tab? My ancestors weren’t Spanish or English, and my family has been here for about 130 years having come from Germany in 1890. How much of the tab am I supposed to pick up?\n
            \n
            Fact of the matter is, the only constant in human history is war. We’re in a (relatively) peaceful era now, and that’s taking into account Ukraine/Russia, Israel/Palestine, and probably another 20 or 30 wars I’m not up to speed on because I’m American and our media doesn’t seem to actually inform us on world events from countries we don’t buy shit from.
            """
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            "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          ]
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            date: 2023-10-10 19:45:38.0 +02:00
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          +"title": 40337
        }
        +body: """
          Clever.\n
          \n
          I’m going through the sourced materials in the American Holocaust book, (great title, by the way! not divisive at all!), and considering the sources, it’s pretty obvious Stannard has an agenda, he’s a “cultural materialist”, an offshoot of cultural Marxism. But you knew that, you just didn’t think I’d look 😉\n
          \n
          Anyway, with as far as I’ve gotten, I can surmise the sources, the majority of them at least, point to textbooks published by “Berkley; University of California press”. Seems a lot of anti-American sentiment comes out of Berkley. Just to appease my curiosity, I’m going to look deeper into this fellow, who, funny enough, cites his own works as well. That’s pretty douchey
          """
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2349
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: """
          Ah, the internet…\n
          \n
          The phrase “That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), **but it’s still very different**” effectively translates to “Even though this happened, this is worse”.\n
          \n
          If you bothered to look at that list, you’ll note the mention of the California Genocide of 1846. Reported casualties between 9,492 and 16,094, with other estimates as high as 120,000. Absolutely fucking horrible and a black mark on American history indeed. However, there are 31 other genocides on that list that are higher in number, with three of those even happening prior to California-\n
          \n
          Dzungam 1755, 480,000-600,000 Taino 1492, 68,000-968,000 Albigensian 1209, 200,000-1,000,000\n
          \n
          I guess it depends on how you define “genocide”, but since Wikipedia is generally using the accepted definition, I feel pretty safe in going with what they say.\n
          \n
          And I did lay out proof, you’re just too caught up in whatever ideology to see it. Feel free to rebut, down vote, cry or whatever makes you feel better, but my point was the world is a horrible place, and terrible things happen to all kinds of groups of people. The “meme” that started all this IS a cherry picked reference to people who were wronged (I’m not disputing they were wronged, but so were… insert any other group of people here). Throughout history, most civilizations are founded on the conquering of another. As horrible as that is, it’s a fact. And after the fact, many of the remaining conqured are treated horribly. Also a fact.\n
          \n
          Lay out some real numbers, cite an authoritative source (sources) and then we can talk. Until then, I hope the best for you and really wish we could get past this bickering bullshit. Life is too short, and trying to pin the sins of one’s father on the current generation isn’t solving shit. Work toward bettering peoples lives without having to exact revenge from people who didn’t have fuck all to do with it.
          """
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          date: 2023-10-11 17:56:07.0 +02:00
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2113 …}
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        +body: "And it’s written by a person, with an agenda and bias just like everyone else. Have a tough time taking anything seriously from someone affiliated with Ward Churchill."
        +lang: "en"
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
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          date: 2023-10-11 21:46:08.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 41891
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2224 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "Citing one book by someone with a clear agenda isn’t a good look either. You picked the fight, feel free to drop it at your leisure."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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        -id: 41925
        -bodyTs: "'agenda':9 'book':3 'cite':1 'clear':8 'drop':23 'either':15 'feel':20 'fight':19 'free':21 'good':13 'isn':10 'leisur':27 'look':14 'one':2 'pick':17 'someon':5"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-10-11 22:01:33.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41925
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024}
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2254
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
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        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2250 …}
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        +body: """
          Oh wait, my fault. I was responding to your comment “**We are still here**”\n
          \n
          Wasn’t sure which part of my anaolgy you weren’t getting. Now we can peacefully argue about that instead.\n
          \n
          **EDITED FOR TYPO
          """
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          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
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          date: 2023-10-12 21:23:04.0 +02:00
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          date: 2023-10-12 20:52:28.0 +02:00
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      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2189
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
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        +body: """
          You don’t have to apologize to me. If he’s someone who would collaborate with Ward Churchill, he’s got a clear agenda. My source for that was looking him up on Wikipedia, as I had no clue who he was. I’m not going to do the effort of sending you a direct link to the article, so feel free to do it yourself. And grant us all the fact that someone who writes a book has an implied agenda to sell the book.\n
          \n
          And every time you start a post with “Source?”, it’s a bad look.
          """
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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        -id: 42135
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        +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/comment/4331392"
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          date: 2023-10-12 00:17:28.0 +02:00
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      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "While I mostly agree, I never said constant war, but where I will disagree in a sense is, the prospect of total annihilation would have been a factor millennia ago had the technology been there. Pick your era, the Romans, the various Chinese dynasties, the English, etc… if they had the means, they would have likely used it, having zero regard for the impact it would have later, mostly due to a poor understanding of the technology. I do believe, at least between “the big three”, meaning the US, Russia and China, nuclear war is an extremely potent deterrent to all out war. It’s the “kids who want to be in the club” that worry me, everyone from NK to Israel. It sucks, but the atomic cat is out of the bag in a world we’re all forced to live in, and the polarization of politics and other bullshit only work to drive that wedge deeper and push us closer to… bad shit."
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works"
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        +"title": 40641
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037
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        +body: """
          As I’m too stupid and it’s to early for me to do these inline…\n
          \n
          Your 1st point, here’s one, had to scroll about 1/8 down the page for. Granted it doesn’t explicitly say it was “okay”, the point stands:\n
          \n
          > “China/Russia/Europe are largely inhabited by people whose ancestry traces back 1000s of years to the same region. That’s very different from North America, where most natives where killed (either through disease or “policy”).\n
          \n
          > That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), but it’s still very different.”\n
          \n
          As you also wanted to be pointed to a source for genocides on the same or larger scale throughout history, allow me to search Wikipedia for you:\n
          \n
          [en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides)\n
          \n
          As to point 3, who exactly determines who is responsible and who will benefit from this paln to raise up America’s indigenous population to their proper station? Are 1st generation immigrants from Ghana going to be required to pay up? How about Natives who’s ancestry dates back to a tribe that exterminated another tribe? Surely that should also qualify as genocide?\n
          \n
          And as to point 4, we, in the west, as I did point out I was American, are in a (**relatively**) peaceful time, which implies that throughout history it has not been, but I guess I need to spell it out for some people.\n
          \n
          At the end of the day, you’re not looking to be enlightened or to learn anything, your post was directed to completely discount my points, or to “*troll*” I will admit I was getting heated reading some of the off the wall bullshit I was seeing, but superlatives aside, I stand by everything I’ve posted. I apologize if you TRULY didn’t know about other genocides, or if your worldview has jaded you to the point where you don’t initially see posts that clearly illustrate what I said, at least in the abstract, and you took the time to go back and reread them and allow it to sink in.\n
          \n
          Feel free to pick apart this post, too. Nothing is more entertaining in a meme thread than for 2 idiots, myself included, to argue about genocide.🙂
          """
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2204
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        +body: "Oversimplifing an empire being overthrown. Seems legit."
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        +body: "It’ll be a while before I can read further but I do intend to read all of it. In my biased opinion so far, i reads like a propaganda piece, the words seleceted in some of the passages are used to elicit a response, but maybe I’ll see differently as I continue. I do have a question, when you say “genocide”, are you also including open conflicts? It’s my understanding of the word that it would not, but I want to make sure, especially when numbers are involved, that we’re using the same metrics."
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        +body: """
          People. On a land mass. Wiped out. People. On a land mass. Wiped out.\n
          \n
          Yeah, I guess I see your point.
          """
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      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
      16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2034
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        +body: "You too buddy! Would enjoy having rational conversations, even note elsewhere in this thread that I’m taking the time to read American Holocaust, as I told myself “why should I ask someone to do something I’m not willing to do myself?” Granted, being close to 50 years old, it likely won’t change my mind, but I reason that if I do read this book, maybe I can better understand other’s worldview, and maybe, just maybe we can have civil conversations instead of the stupid fucking bickering that’s been going on in a… wait for it… meme thread!"
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        +body: "Oh, I stand corrected. A link to a Google doc. Should probably submit that to the Wikipedia article I linked as clearly thier information is flawed. You win an internet today."
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     …2
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  +body: "I agree with your points, and yes it’s a better perspective, however, that’s not the world we’re living in. There are some who are hell bent on wiping out continents of people due to any number of reasons ranging from beliefs to the exploitation of natural resources merely for financial gain. I really wish we did live in a world where the word “nuclear” invoked thoughts of clean(er), abundant and cheaper energy vs it invoking dread at the prospect of total annihilation."
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2254
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2196
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        +body: "Explain. How is it a false equivalent? Romans controlled the city / region for over a thousand years and were later conqured, and their land stolen, to use the vernacular of this thread."
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2324
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        +body: "So by that logic, the Turks should give Constantinople back to the Romans?"
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        -id: 41637
        -bodyTs: "'back':10 'constantinopl':9 'give':8 'logic':4 'roman':13 'turk':6"
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          date: 2023-10-11 18:33:20.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41637
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      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2307
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2306 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410
          +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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          +body: """
            For fucks sake… 1st off, whether or not this qualifies as a “meme”, it doesn’t fit the accepted norm of what most people expect to see when they click on “memes”\n
            \n
            Secondly, and this may sting a little, but peace as we know it is a relatively new thing in world history. I’ve seen a multitude of other comments here proclaiming all those other genocides were okay because they were thousands of years ago. It’s that “in my lifetime” mentality that just fucking grinds my gears. Through thousands of years of history, one genocide is cherry picked and held up as the worst ever, and the citizens who"benefitted" from it are supposed to pick up the tab? My ancestors weren’t Spanish or English, and my family has been here for about 130 years having come from Germany in 1890. How much of the tab am I supposed to pick up?\n
            \n
            Fact of the matter is, the only constant in human history is war. We’re in a (relatively) peaceful era now, and that’s taking into account Ukraine/Russia, Israel/Palestine, and probably another 20 or 30 wars I’m not up to speed on because I’m American and our media doesn’t seem to actually inform us on world events from countries we don’t buy shit from.
            """
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            "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
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            date: 2023-10-10 19:45:38.0 +02:00
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          +"title": 40337
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        +body: """
          Clever.\n
          \n
          I’m going through the sourced materials in the American Holocaust book, (great title, by the way! not divisive at all!), and considering the sources, it’s pretty obvious Stannard has an agenda, he’s a “cultural materialist”, an offshoot of cultural Marxism. But you knew that, you just didn’t think I’d look 😉\n
          \n
          Anyway, with as far as I’ve gotten, I can surmise the sources, the majority of them at least, point to textbooks published by “Berkley; University of California press”. Seems a lot of anti-American sentiment comes out of Berkley. Just to appease my curiosity, I’m going to look deeper into this fellow, who, funny enough, cites his own works as well. That’s pretty douchey
          """
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2349
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: """
          Ah, the internet…\n
          \n
          The phrase “That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), **but it’s still very different**” effectively translates to “Even though this happened, this is worse”.\n
          \n
          If you bothered to look at that list, you’ll note the mention of the California Genocide of 1846. Reported casualties between 9,492 and 16,094, with other estimates as high as 120,000. Absolutely fucking horrible and a black mark on American history indeed. However, there are 31 other genocides on that list that are higher in number, with three of those even happening prior to California-\n
          \n
          Dzungam 1755, 480,000-600,000 Taino 1492, 68,000-968,000 Albigensian 1209, 200,000-1,000,000\n
          \n
          I guess it depends on how you define “genocide”, but since Wikipedia is generally using the accepted definition, I feel pretty safe in going with what they say.\n
          \n
          And I did lay out proof, you’re just too caught up in whatever ideology to see it. Feel free to rebut, down vote, cry or whatever makes you feel better, but my point was the world is a horrible place, and terrible things happen to all kinds of groups of people. The “meme” that started all this IS a cherry picked reference to people who were wronged (I’m not disputing they were wronged, but so were… insert any other group of people here). Throughout history, most civilizations are founded on the conquering of another. As horrible as that is, it’s a fact. And after the fact, many of the remaining conqured are treated horribly. Also a fact.\n
          \n
          Lay out some real numbers, cite an authoritative source (sources) and then we can talk. Until then, I hope the best for you and really wish we could get past this bickering bullshit. Life is too short, and trying to pin the sins of one’s father on the current generation isn’t solving shit. Work toward bettering peoples lives without having to exact revenge from people who didn’t have fuck all to do with it.
          """
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "And it’s written by a person, with an agenda and bias just like everyone else. Have a tough time taking anything seriously from someone affiliated with Ward Churchill."
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      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "Citing one book by someone with a clear agenda isn’t a good look either. You picked the fight, feel free to drop it at your leisure."
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2023-10-11 22:01:33.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41925
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "I agree with your points, and yes it’s a better perspective, however, that’s not the world we’re living in. There are some who are hell bent on wiping out continents of people due to any number of reasons ranging from beliefs to the exploitation of natural resources merely for financial gain. I really wish we did live in a world where the word “nuclear” invoked thoughts of clean(er), abundant and cheaper energy vs it invoking dread at the prospect of total annihilation."
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2254}
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2189
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        +body: """
          You don’t have to apologize to me. If he’s someone who would collaborate with Ward Churchill, he’s got a clear agenda. My source for that was looking him up on Wikipedia, as I had no clue who he was. I’m not going to do the effort of sending you a direct link to the article, so feel free to do it yourself. And grant us all the fact that someone who writes a book has an implied agenda to sell the book.\n
          \n
          And every time you start a post with “Source?”, it’s a bad look.
          """
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      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383
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        +body: "While I mostly agree, I never said constant war, but where I will disagree in a sense is, the prospect of total annihilation would have been a factor millennia ago had the technology been there. Pick your era, the Romans, the various Chinese dynasties, the English, etc… if they had the means, they would have likely used it, having zero regard for the impact it would have later, mostly due to a poor understanding of the technology. I do believe, at least between “the big three”, meaning the US, Russia and China, nuclear war is an extremely potent deterrent to all out war. It’s the “kids who want to be in the club” that worry me, everyone from NK to Israel. It sucks, but the atomic cat is out of the bag in a world we’re all forced to live in, and the polarization of politics and other bullshit only work to drive that wedge deeper and push us closer to… bad shit."
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        -id: 40641
        -bodyTs: "'ago':30 'agre':4 'annihil':23 'atom':127 'bad':164 'bag':133 'believ':80 'big':85 'bullshit':151 'cat':128 'china':92 'chines':43 'closer':162 'club':114 'constant':8 'deeper':158 'deterr':99 'disagre':14 'drive':155 'due':70 'dynasti':44 'english':46 'era':38 'etc':47 'everyon':118 'extrem':97 'factor':28 'forc':140 'impact':64 'israel':122 'kid':107 'later':68 'least':82 'like':56 'live':142 'mean':52,87 'millennia':29 'most':3,69 'never':6 'nk':120 'nuclear':93 'pick':36 'polar':146 'polit':148 'poor':73 'potent':98 'prospect':20 'push':160 're':138 'regard':61 'roman':40 'russia':90 'said':7 'sens':17 'shit':165 'suck':124 'technolog':33,77 'three':86 'total':22 'understand':74 'us':89,161 'use':57 'various':42 'want':109 'war':9,94,103 'wedg':157 'work':153 'world':136 'worri':116 'would':24,54,66 'zero':60"
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          date: 2023-10-10 22:52:49.0 +02:00
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      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: """
          As I’m too stupid and it’s to early for me to do these inline…\n
          \n
          Your 1st point, here’s one, had to scroll about 1/8 down the page for. Granted it doesn’t explicitly say it was “okay”, the point stands:\n
          \n
          > “China/Russia/Europe are largely inhabited by people whose ancestry traces back 1000s of years to the same region. That’s very different from North America, where most natives where killed (either through disease or “policy”).\n
          \n
          > That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), but it’s still very different.”\n
          \n
          As you also wanted to be pointed to a source for genocides on the same or larger scale throughout history, allow me to search Wikipedia for you:\n
          \n
          [en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides)\n
          \n
          As to point 3, who exactly determines who is responsible and who will benefit from this paln to raise up America’s indigenous population to their proper station? Are 1st generation immigrants from Ghana going to be required to pay up? How about Natives who’s ancestry dates back to a tribe that exterminated another tribe? Surely that should also qualify as genocide?\n
          \n
          And as to point 4, we, in the west, as I did point out I was American, are in a (**relatively**) peaceful time, which implies that throughout history it has not been, but I guess I need to spell it out for some people.\n
          \n
          At the end of the day, you’re not looking to be enlightened or to learn anything, your post was directed to completely discount my points, or to “*troll*” I will admit I was getting heated reading some of the off the wall bullshit I was seeing, but superlatives aside, I stand by everything I’ve posted. I apologize if you TRULY didn’t know about other genocides, or if your worldview has jaded you to the point where you don’t initially see posts that clearly illustrate what I said, at least in the abstract, and you took the time to go back and reread them and allow it to sink in.\n
          \n
          Feel free to pick apart this post, too. Nothing is more entertaining in a meme thread than for 2 idiots, myself included, to argue about genocide.🙂
          """
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          date: 2023-10-11 14:10:25.0 +02:00
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2204
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +body: "Oversimplifing an empire being overthrown. Seems legit."
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
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          date: 2023-10-12 18:39:26.0 +02:00
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2281
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        +body: "It’ll be a while before I can read further but I do intend to read all of it. In my biased opinion so far, i reads like a propaganda piece, the words seleceted in some of the passages are used to elicit a response, but maybe I’ll see differently as I continue. I do have a question, when you say “genocide”, are you also including open conflicts? It’s my understanding of the word that it would not, but I want to make sure, especially when numbers are involved, that we’re using the same metrics."
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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          date: 2023-10-12 15:46:08.0 +02:00
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      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2263
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        +body: """
          People. On a land mass. Wiped out. People. On a land mass. Wiped out.\n
          \n
          Yeah, I guess I see your point.
          """
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      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
      16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2034
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "You too buddy! Would enjoy having rational conversations, even note elsewhere in this thread that I’m taking the time to read American Holocaust, as I told myself “why should I ask someone to do something I’m not willing to do myself?” Granted, being close to 50 years old, it likely won’t change my mind, but I reason that if I do read this book, maybe I can better understand other’s worldview, and maybe, just maybe we can have civil conversations instead of the stupid fucking bickering that’s been going on in a… wait for it… meme thread!"
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          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
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        +body: "Oh, I stand corrected. A link to a Google doc. Should probably submit that to the Wikipedia article I linked as clearly thier information is flawed. You win an internet today."
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      date: 2023-10-09 13:23:41.0 +02:00
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     …2
  }
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  +body: """
    Oh wait, my fault. I was responding to your comment “**We are still here**”\n
    \n
    Wasn’t sure which part of my anaolgy you weren’t getting. Now we can peacefully argue about that instead.\n
    \n
    **EDITED FOR TYPO
    """
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2254
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    +slug: "History"
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2196
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        +body: "Explain. How is it a false equivalent? Romans controlled the city / region for over a thousand years and were later conqured, and their land stolen, to use the vernacular of this thread."
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          date: 2023-10-12 15:48:16.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 43097
      }
      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2324
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "So by that logic, the Turks should give Constantinople back to the Romans?"
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          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
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          date: 2023-10-11 18:33:20.0 +02:00
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      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2307
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410
          +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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          +body: """
            For fucks sake… 1st off, whether or not this qualifies as a “meme”, it doesn’t fit the accepted norm of what most people expect to see when they click on “memes”\n
            \n
            Secondly, and this may sting a little, but peace as we know it is a relatively new thing in world history. I’ve seen a multitude of other comments here proclaiming all those other genocides were okay because they were thousands of years ago. It’s that “in my lifetime” mentality that just fucking grinds my gears. Through thousands of years of history, one genocide is cherry picked and held up as the worst ever, and the citizens who"benefitted" from it are supposed to pick up the tab? My ancestors weren’t Spanish or English, and my family has been here for about 130 years having come from Germany in 1890. How much of the tab am I supposed to pick up?\n
            \n
            Fact of the matter is, the only constant in human history is war. We’re in a (relatively) peaceful era now, and that’s taking into account Ukraine/Russia, Israel/Palestine, and probably another 20 or 30 wars I’m not up to speed on because I’m American and our media doesn’t seem to actually inform us on world events from countries we don’t buy shit from.
            """
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            date: 2023-10-10 19:45:38.0 +02:00
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        +body: """
          Clever.\n
          \n
          I’m going through the sourced materials in the American Holocaust book, (great title, by the way! not divisive at all!), and considering the sources, it’s pretty obvious Stannard has an agenda, he’s a “cultural materialist”, an offshoot of cultural Marxism. But you knew that, you just didn’t think I’d look 😉\n
          \n
          Anyway, with as far as I’ve gotten, I can surmise the sources, the majority of them at least, point to textbooks published by “Berkley; University of California press”. Seems a lot of anti-American sentiment comes out of Berkley. Just to appease my curiosity, I’m going to look deeper into this fellow, who, funny enough, cites his own works as well. That’s pretty douchey
          """
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2349
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: """
          Ah, the internet…\n
          \n
          The phrase “That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), **but it’s still very different**” effectively translates to “Even though this happened, this is worse”.\n
          \n
          If you bothered to look at that list, you’ll note the mention of the California Genocide of 1846. Reported casualties between 9,492 and 16,094, with other estimates as high as 120,000. Absolutely fucking horrible and a black mark on American history indeed. However, there are 31 other genocides on that list that are higher in number, with three of those even happening prior to California-\n
          \n
          Dzungam 1755, 480,000-600,000 Taino 1492, 68,000-968,000 Albigensian 1209, 200,000-1,000,000\n
          \n
          I guess it depends on how you define “genocide”, but since Wikipedia is generally using the accepted definition, I feel pretty safe in going with what they say.\n
          \n
          And I did lay out proof, you’re just too caught up in whatever ideology to see it. Feel free to rebut, down vote, cry or whatever makes you feel better, but my point was the world is a horrible place, and terrible things happen to all kinds of groups of people. The “meme” that started all this IS a cherry picked reference to people who were wronged (I’m not disputing they were wronged, but so were… insert any other group of people here). Throughout history, most civilizations are founded on the conquering of another. As horrible as that is, it’s a fact. And after the fact, many of the remaining conqured are treated horribly. Also a fact.\n
          \n
          Lay out some real numbers, cite an authoritative source (sources) and then we can talk. Until then, I hope the best for you and really wish we could get past this bickering bullshit. Life is too short, and trying to pin the sins of one’s father on the current generation isn’t solving shit. Work toward bettering peoples lives without having to exact revenge from people who didn’t have fuck all to do with it.
          """
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "And it’s written by a person, with an agenda and bias just like everyone else. Have a tough time taking anything seriously from someone affiliated with Ward Churchill."
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      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
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        +body: "Citing one book by someone with a clear agenda isn’t a good look either. You picked the fight, feel free to drop it at your leisure."
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2023-10-11 22:01:33.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 41925
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "I agree with your points, and yes it’s a better perspective, however, that’s not the world we’re living in. There are some who are hell bent on wiping out continents of people due to any number of reasons ranging from beliefs to the exploitation of natural resources merely for financial gain. I really wish we did live in a world where the word “nuclear” invoked thoughts of clean(er), abundant and cheaper energy vs it invoking dread at the prospect of total annihilation."
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2254}
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2189
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        +body: """
          You don’t have to apologize to me. If he’s someone who would collaborate with Ward Churchill, he’s got a clear agenda. My source for that was looking him up on Wikipedia, as I had no clue who he was. I’m not going to do the effort of sending you a direct link to the article, so feel free to do it yourself. And grant us all the fact that someone who writes a book has an implied agenda to sell the book.\n
          \n
          And every time you start a post with “Source?”, it’s a bad look.
          """
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      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383
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        +body: "While I mostly agree, I never said constant war, but where I will disagree in a sense is, the prospect of total annihilation would have been a factor millennia ago had the technology been there. Pick your era, the Romans, the various Chinese dynasties, the English, etc… if they had the means, they would have likely used it, having zero regard for the impact it would have later, mostly due to a poor understanding of the technology. I do believe, at least between “the big three”, meaning the US, Russia and China, nuclear war is an extremely potent deterrent to all out war. It’s the “kids who want to be in the club” that worry me, everyone from NK to Israel. It sucks, but the atomic cat is out of the bag in a world we’re all forced to live in, and the polarization of politics and other bullshit only work to drive that wedge deeper and push us closer to… bad shit."
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works"
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          date: 2023-10-10 22:52:49.0 +02:00
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      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037
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        +body: """
          As I’m too stupid and it’s to early for me to do these inline…\n
          \n
          Your 1st point, here’s one, had to scroll about 1/8 down the page for. Granted it doesn’t explicitly say it was “okay”, the point stands:\n
          \n
          > “China/Russia/Europe are largely inhabited by people whose ancestry traces back 1000s of years to the same region. That’s very different from North America, where most natives where killed (either through disease or “policy”).\n
          \n
          > That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), but it’s still very different.”\n
          \n
          As you also wanted to be pointed to a source for genocides on the same or larger scale throughout history, allow me to search Wikipedia for you:\n
          \n
          [en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides)\n
          \n
          As to point 3, who exactly determines who is responsible and who will benefit from this paln to raise up America’s indigenous population to their proper station? Are 1st generation immigrants from Ghana going to be required to pay up? How about Natives who’s ancestry dates back to a tribe that exterminated another tribe? Surely that should also qualify as genocide?\n
          \n
          And as to point 4, we, in the west, as I did point out I was American, are in a (**relatively**) peaceful time, which implies that throughout history it has not been, but I guess I need to spell it out for some people.\n
          \n
          At the end of the day, you’re not looking to be enlightened or to learn anything, your post was directed to completely discount my points, or to “*troll*” I will admit I was getting heated reading some of the off the wall bullshit I was seeing, but superlatives aside, I stand by everything I’ve posted. I apologize if you TRULY didn’t know about other genocides, or if your worldview has jaded you to the point where you don’t initially see posts that clearly illustrate what I said, at least in the abstract, and you took the time to go back and reread them and allow it to sink in.\n
          \n
          Feel free to pick apart this post, too. Nothing is more entertaining in a meme thread than for 2 idiots, myself included, to argue about genocide.🙂
          """
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          date: 2023-10-11 14:10:25.0 +02:00
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2204
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +body: "Oversimplifing an empire being overthrown. Seems legit."
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2281
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        +body: "It’ll be a while before I can read further but I do intend to read all of it. In my biased opinion so far, i reads like a propaganda piece, the words seleceted in some of the passages are used to elicit a response, but maybe I’ll see differently as I continue. I do have a question, when you say “genocide”, are you also including open conflicts? It’s my understanding of the word that it would not, but I want to make sure, especially when numbers are involved, that we’re using the same metrics."
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
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          date: 2023-10-12 15:46:08.0 +02:00
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      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2263
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        +body: """
          People. On a land mass. Wiped out. People. On a land mass. Wiped out.\n
          \n
          Yeah, I guess I see your point.
          """
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      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
      16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2034
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "You too buddy! Would enjoy having rational conversations, even note elsewhere in this thread that I’m taking the time to read American Holocaust, as I told myself “why should I ask someone to do something I’m not willing to do myself?” Granted, being close to 50 years old, it likely won’t change my mind, but I reason that if I do read this book, maybe I can better understand other’s worldview, and maybe, just maybe we can have civil conversations instead of the stupid fucking bickering that’s been going on in a… wait for it… meme thread!"
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          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
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        +body: "Oh, I stand corrected. A link to a Google doc. Should probably submit that to the Wikipedia article I linked as clearly thier information is flawed. You win an internet today."
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      date: 2023-10-09 13:23:41.0 +02:00
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     …2
  }
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  +body: """
    Oh wait, my fault. I was responding to your comment “**We are still here**”\n
    \n
    Wasn’t sure which part of my anaolgy you weren’t getting. Now we can peacefully argue about that instead.\n
    \n
    **EDITED FOR TYPO
    """
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2254
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    +slug: "History"
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2196
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        +body: "Explain. How is it a false equivalent? Romans controlled the city / region for over a thousand years and were later conqured, and their land stolen, to use the vernacular of this thread."
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        -bodyTs: "'citi':11 'conqur':21 'control':9 'equival':7 'explain':1 'fals':6 'land':24 'later':20 'region':12 'roman':8 'stolen':25 'thousand':16 'thread':32 'use':27 'vernacular':29 'year':17"
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          date: 2023-10-12 15:48:16.0 +02:00
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2324
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "So by that logic, the Turks should give Constantinople back to the Romans?"
        +lang: "en"
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          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
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          date: 2023-10-11 18:33:20.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 41637
      }
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2307
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410
          +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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          +body: """
            For fucks sake… 1st off, whether or not this qualifies as a “meme”, it doesn’t fit the accepted norm of what most people expect to see when they click on “memes”\n
            \n
            Secondly, and this may sting a little, but peace as we know it is a relatively new thing in world history. I’ve seen a multitude of other comments here proclaiming all those other genocides were okay because they were thousands of years ago. It’s that “in my lifetime” mentality that just fucking grinds my gears. Through thousands of years of history, one genocide is cherry picked and held up as the worst ever, and the citizens who"benefitted" from it are supposed to pick up the tab? My ancestors weren’t Spanish or English, and my family has been here for about 130 years having come from Germany in 1890. How much of the tab am I supposed to pick up?\n
            \n
            Fact of the matter is, the only constant in human history is war. We’re in a (relatively) peaceful era now, and that’s taking into account Ukraine/Russia, Israel/Palestine, and probably another 20 or 30 wars I’m not up to speed on because I’m American and our media doesn’t seem to actually inform us on world events from countries we don’t buy shit from.
            """
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            date: 2023-10-10 19:45:38.0 +02:00
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        +body: """
          Clever.\n
          \n
          I’m going through the sourced materials in the American Holocaust book, (great title, by the way! not divisive at all!), and considering the sources, it’s pretty obvious Stannard has an agenda, he’s a “cultural materialist”, an offshoot of cultural Marxism. But you knew that, you just didn’t think I’d look 😉\n
          \n
          Anyway, with as far as I’ve gotten, I can surmise the sources, the majority of them at least, point to textbooks published by “Berkley; University of California press”. Seems a lot of anti-American sentiment comes out of Berkley. Just to appease my curiosity, I’m going to look deeper into this fellow, who, funny enough, cites his own works as well. That’s pretty douchey
          """
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2349
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: """
          Ah, the internet…\n
          \n
          The phrase “That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), **but it’s still very different**” effectively translates to “Even though this happened, this is worse”.\n
          \n
          If you bothered to look at that list, you’ll note the mention of the California Genocide of 1846. Reported casualties between 9,492 and 16,094, with other estimates as high as 120,000. Absolutely fucking horrible and a black mark on American history indeed. However, there are 31 other genocides on that list that are higher in number, with three of those even happening prior to California-\n
          \n
          Dzungam 1755, 480,000-600,000 Taino 1492, 68,000-968,000 Albigensian 1209, 200,000-1,000,000\n
          \n
          I guess it depends on how you define “genocide”, but since Wikipedia is generally using the accepted definition, I feel pretty safe in going with what they say.\n
          \n
          And I did lay out proof, you’re just too caught up in whatever ideology to see it. Feel free to rebut, down vote, cry or whatever makes you feel better, but my point was the world is a horrible place, and terrible things happen to all kinds of groups of people. The “meme” that started all this IS a cherry picked reference to people who were wronged (I’m not disputing they were wronged, but so were… insert any other group of people here). Throughout history, most civilizations are founded on the conquering of another. As horrible as that is, it’s a fact. And after the fact, many of the remaining conqured are treated horribly. Also a fact.\n
          \n
          Lay out some real numbers, cite an authoritative source (sources) and then we can talk. Until then, I hope the best for you and really wish we could get past this bickering bullshit. Life is too short, and trying to pin the sins of one’s father on the current generation isn’t solving shit. Work toward bettering peoples lives without having to exact revenge from people who didn’t have fuck all to do with it.
          """
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "And it’s written by a person, with an agenda and bias just like everyone else. Have a tough time taking anything seriously from someone affiliated with Ward Churchill."
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      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
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        +body: "Citing one book by someone with a clear agenda isn’t a good look either. You picked the fight, feel free to drop it at your leisure."
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2023-10-11 22:01:33.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41925
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024
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        +body: "I agree with your points, and yes it’s a better perspective, however, that’s not the world we’re living in. There are some who are hell bent on wiping out continents of people due to any number of reasons ranging from beliefs to the exploitation of natural resources merely for financial gain. I really wish we did live in a world where the word “nuclear” invoked thoughts of clean(er), abundant and cheaper energy vs it invoking dread at the prospect of total annihilation."
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2254}
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2189
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        +body: """
          You don’t have to apologize to me. If he’s someone who would collaborate with Ward Churchill, he’s got a clear agenda. My source for that was looking him up on Wikipedia, as I had no clue who he was. I’m not going to do the effort of sending you a direct link to the article, so feel free to do it yourself. And grant us all the fact that someone who writes a book has an implied agenda to sell the book.\n
          \n
          And every time you start a post with “Source?”, it’s a bad look.
          """
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      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1402 …}
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        +body: "While I mostly agree, I never said constant war, but where I will disagree in a sense is, the prospect of total annihilation would have been a factor millennia ago had the technology been there. Pick your era, the Romans, the various Chinese dynasties, the English, etc… if they had the means, they would have likely used it, having zero regard for the impact it would have later, mostly due to a poor understanding of the technology. I do believe, at least between “the big three”, meaning the US, Russia and China, nuclear war is an extremely potent deterrent to all out war. It’s the “kids who want to be in the club” that worry me, everyone from NK to Israel. It sucks, but the atomic cat is out of the bag in a world we’re all forced to live in, and the polarization of politics and other bullshit only work to drive that wedge deeper and push us closer to… bad shit."
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      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037
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        +body: """
          As I’m too stupid and it’s to early for me to do these inline…\n
          \n
          Your 1st point, here’s one, had to scroll about 1/8 down the page for. Granted it doesn’t explicitly say it was “okay”, the point stands:\n
          \n
          > “China/Russia/Europe are largely inhabited by people whose ancestry traces back 1000s of years to the same region. That’s very different from North America, where most natives where killed (either through disease or “policy”).\n
          \n
          > That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), but it’s still very different.”\n
          \n
          As you also wanted to be pointed to a source for genocides on the same or larger scale throughout history, allow me to search Wikipedia for you:\n
          \n
          [en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides)\n
          \n
          As to point 3, who exactly determines who is responsible and who will benefit from this paln to raise up America’s indigenous population to their proper station? Are 1st generation immigrants from Ghana going to be required to pay up? How about Natives who’s ancestry dates back to a tribe that exterminated another tribe? Surely that should also qualify as genocide?\n
          \n
          And as to point 4, we, in the west, as I did point out I was American, are in a (**relatively**) peaceful time, which implies that throughout history it has not been, but I guess I need to spell it out for some people.\n
          \n
          At the end of the day, you’re not looking to be enlightened or to learn anything, your post was directed to completely discount my points, or to “*troll*” I will admit I was getting heated reading some of the off the wall bullshit I was seeing, but superlatives aside, I stand by everything I’ve posted. I apologize if you TRULY didn’t know about other genocides, or if your worldview has jaded you to the point where you don’t initially see posts that clearly illustrate what I said, at least in the abstract, and you took the time to go back and reread them and allow it to sink in.\n
          \n
          Feel free to pick apart this post, too. Nothing is more entertaining in a meme thread than for 2 idiots, myself included, to argue about genocide.🙂
          """
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2204
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +body: "Oversimplifing an empire being overthrown. Seems legit."
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2281
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        +body: "It’ll be a while before I can read further but I do intend to read all of it. In my biased opinion so far, i reads like a propaganda piece, the words seleceted in some of the passages are used to elicit a response, but maybe I’ll see differently as I continue. I do have a question, when you say “genocide”, are you also including open conflicts? It’s my understanding of the word that it would not, but I want to make sure, especially when numbers are involved, that we’re using the same metrics."
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          date: 2023-10-12 15:46:08.0 +02:00
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      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2263
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        +body: """
          People. On a land mass. Wiped out. People. On a land mass. Wiped out.\n
          \n
          Yeah, I guess I see your point.
          """
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      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
      16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2034
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        +body: "You too buddy! Would enjoy having rational conversations, even note elsewhere in this thread that I’m taking the time to read American Holocaust, as I told myself “why should I ask someone to do something I’m not willing to do myself?” Granted, being close to 50 years old, it likely won’t change my mind, but I reason that if I do read this book, maybe I can better understand other’s worldview, and maybe, just maybe we can have civil conversations instead of the stupid fucking bickering that’s been going on in a… wait for it… meme thread!"
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
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        +body: "Oh, I stand corrected. A link to a Google doc. Should probably submit that to the Wikipedia article I linked as clearly thier information is flawed. You win an internet today."
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     …2
  }
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  +body: """
    Oh wait, my fault. I was responding to your comment “**We are still here**”\n
    \n
    Wasn’t sure which part of my anaolgy you weren’t getting. Now we can peacefully argue about that instead.\n
    \n
    **EDITED FOR TYPO
    """
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2189
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2199 …}
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        +body: "Explain. How is it a false equivalent? Romans controlled the city / region for over a thousand years and were later conqured, and their land stolen, to use the vernacular of this thread."
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2324
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "So by that logic, the Turks should give Constantinople back to the Romans?"
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          date: 2023-10-11 18:33:20.0 +02:00
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      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2307
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410
          +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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          +body: """
            For fucks sake… 1st off, whether or not this qualifies as a “meme”, it doesn’t fit the accepted norm of what most people expect to see when they click on “memes”\n
            \n
            Secondly, and this may sting a little, but peace as we know it is a relatively new thing in world history. I’ve seen a multitude of other comments here proclaiming all those other genocides were okay because they were thousands of years ago. It’s that “in my lifetime” mentality that just fucking grinds my gears. Through thousands of years of history, one genocide is cherry picked and held up as the worst ever, and the citizens who"benefitted" from it are supposed to pick up the tab? My ancestors weren’t Spanish or English, and my family has been here for about 130 years having come from Germany in 1890. How much of the tab am I supposed to pick up?\n
            \n
            Fact of the matter is, the only constant in human history is war. We’re in a (relatively) peaceful era now, and that’s taking into account Ukraine/Russia, Israel/Palestine, and probably another 20 or 30 wars I’m not up to speed on because I’m American and our media doesn’t seem to actually inform us on world events from countries we don’t buy shit from.
            """
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            date: 2023-10-10 19:45:38.0 +02:00
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        +body: """
          Clever.\n
          \n
          I’m going through the sourced materials in the American Holocaust book, (great title, by the way! not divisive at all!), and considering the sources, it’s pretty obvious Stannard has an agenda, he’s a “cultural materialist”, an offshoot of cultural Marxism. But you knew that, you just didn’t think I’d look 😉\n
          \n
          Anyway, with as far as I’ve gotten, I can surmise the sources, the majority of them at least, point to textbooks published by “Berkley; University of California press”. Seems a lot of anti-American sentiment comes out of Berkley. Just to appease my curiosity, I’m going to look deeper into this fellow, who, funny enough, cites his own works as well. That’s pretty douchey
          """
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2349
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: """
          Ah, the internet…\n
          \n
          The phrase “That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), **but it’s still very different**” effectively translates to “Even though this happened, this is worse”.\n
          \n
          If you bothered to look at that list, you’ll note the mention of the California Genocide of 1846. Reported casualties between 9,492 and 16,094, with other estimates as high as 120,000. Absolutely fucking horrible and a black mark on American history indeed. However, there are 31 other genocides on that list that are higher in number, with three of those even happening prior to California-\n
          \n
          Dzungam 1755, 480,000-600,000 Taino 1492, 68,000-968,000 Albigensian 1209, 200,000-1,000,000\n
          \n
          I guess it depends on how you define “genocide”, but since Wikipedia is generally using the accepted definition, I feel pretty safe in going with what they say.\n
          \n
          And I did lay out proof, you’re just too caught up in whatever ideology to see it. Feel free to rebut, down vote, cry or whatever makes you feel better, but my point was the world is a horrible place, and terrible things happen to all kinds of groups of people. The “meme” that started all this IS a cherry picked reference to people who were wronged (I’m not disputing they were wronged, but so were… insert any other group of people here). Throughout history, most civilizations are founded on the conquering of another. As horrible as that is, it’s a fact. And after the fact, many of the remaining conqured are treated horribly. Also a fact.\n
          \n
          Lay out some real numbers, cite an authoritative source (sources) and then we can talk. Until then, I hope the best for you and really wish we could get past this bickering bullshit. Life is too short, and trying to pin the sins of one’s father on the current generation isn’t solving shit. Work toward bettering peoples lives without having to exact revenge from people who didn’t have fuck all to do with it.
          """
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "And it’s written by a person, with an agenda and bias just like everyone else. Have a tough time taking anything seriously from someone affiliated with Ward Churchill."
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      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
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        +body: "Citing one book by someone with a clear agenda isn’t a good look either. You picked the fight, feel free to drop it at your leisure."
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          date: 2023-10-11 22:01:33.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 41925
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024
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        +body: "I agree with your points, and yes it’s a better perspective, however, that’s not the world we’re living in. There are some who are hell bent on wiping out continents of people due to any number of reasons ranging from beliefs to the exploitation of natural resources merely for financial gain. I really wish we did live in a world where the word “nuclear” invoked thoughts of clean(er), abundant and cheaper energy vs it invoking dread at the prospect of total annihilation."
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          "@ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works"
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2254
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        +body: """
          Oh wait, my fault. I was responding to your comment “**We are still here**”\n
          \n
          Wasn’t sure which part of my anaolgy you weren’t getting. Now we can peacefully argue about that instead.\n
          \n
          **EDITED FOR TYPO
          """
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        +"title": 43749
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2189}
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "While I mostly agree, I never said constant war, but where I will disagree in a sense is, the prospect of total annihilation would have been a factor millennia ago had the technology been there. Pick your era, the Romans, the various Chinese dynasties, the English, etc… if they had the means, they would have likely used it, having zero regard for the impact it would have later, mostly due to a poor understanding of the technology. I do believe, at least between “the big three”, meaning the US, Russia and China, nuclear war is an extremely potent deterrent to all out war. It’s the “kids who want to be in the club” that worry me, everyone from NK to Israel. It sucks, but the atomic cat is out of the bag in a world we’re all forced to live in, and the polarization of politics and other bullshit only work to drive that wedge deeper and push us closer to… bad shit."
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      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037
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        +body: """
          As I’m too stupid and it’s to early for me to do these inline…\n
          \n
          Your 1st point, here’s one, had to scroll about 1/8 down the page for. Granted it doesn’t explicitly say it was “okay”, the point stands:\n
          \n
          > “China/Russia/Europe are largely inhabited by people whose ancestry traces back 1000s of years to the same region. That’s very different from North America, where most natives where killed (either through disease or “policy”).\n
          \n
          > That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), but it’s still very different.”\n
          \n
          As you also wanted to be pointed to a source for genocides on the same or larger scale throughout history, allow me to search Wikipedia for you:\n
          \n
          [en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides)\n
          \n
          As to point 3, who exactly determines who is responsible and who will benefit from this paln to raise up America’s indigenous population to their proper station? Are 1st generation immigrants from Ghana going to be required to pay up? How about Natives who’s ancestry dates back to a tribe that exterminated another tribe? Surely that should also qualify as genocide?\n
          \n
          And as to point 4, we, in the west, as I did point out I was American, are in a (**relatively**) peaceful time, which implies that throughout history it has not been, but I guess I need to spell it out for some people.\n
          \n
          At the end of the day, you’re not looking to be enlightened or to learn anything, your post was directed to completely discount my points, or to “*troll*” I will admit I was getting heated reading some of the off the wall bullshit I was seeing, but superlatives aside, I stand by everything I’ve posted. I apologize if you TRULY didn’t know about other genocides, or if your worldview has jaded you to the point where you don’t initially see posts that clearly illustrate what I said, at least in the abstract, and you took the time to go back and reread them and allow it to sink in.\n
          \n
          Feel free to pick apart this post, too. Nothing is more entertaining in a meme thread than for 2 idiots, myself included, to argue about genocide.🙂
          """
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2204
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +body: "Oversimplifing an empire being overthrown. Seems legit."
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2281
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        +body: "It’ll be a while before I can read further but I do intend to read all of it. In my biased opinion so far, i reads like a propaganda piece, the words seleceted in some of the passages are used to elicit a response, but maybe I’ll see differently as I continue. I do have a question, when you say “genocide”, are you also including open conflicts? It’s my understanding of the word that it would not, but I want to make sure, especially when numbers are involved, that we’re using the same metrics."
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          date: 2023-10-12 15:46:08.0 +02:00
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      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2263
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        +body: """
          People. On a land mass. Wiped out. People. On a land mass. Wiped out.\n
          \n
          Yeah, I guess I see your point.
          """
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      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
      16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2034
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        +body: "You too buddy! Would enjoy having rational conversations, even note elsewhere in this thread that I’m taking the time to read American Holocaust, as I told myself “why should I ask someone to do something I’m not willing to do myself?” Granted, being close to 50 years old, it likely won’t change my mind, but I reason that if I do read this book, maybe I can better understand other’s worldview, and maybe, just maybe we can have civil conversations instead of the stupid fucking bickering that’s been going on in a… wait for it… meme thread!"
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
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        +body: "Oh, I stand corrected. A link to a Google doc. Should probably submit that to the Wikipedia article I linked as clearly thier information is flawed. You win an internet today."
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     …2
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  +body: """
    You don’t have to apologize to me. If he’s someone who would collaborate with Ward Churchill, he’s got a clear agenda. My source for that was looking him up on Wikipedia, as I had no clue who he was. I’m not going to do the effort of sending you a direct link to the article, so feel free to do it yourself. And grant us all the fact that someone who writes a book has an implied agenda to sell the book.\n
    \n
    And every time you start a post with “Source?”, it’s a bad look.
    """
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2189
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2196
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "Explain. How is it a false equivalent? Romans controlled the city / region for over a thousand years and were later conqured, and their land stolen, to use the vernacular of this thread."
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2324
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        +body: "So by that logic, the Turks should give Constantinople back to the Romans?"
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      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2307
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          +body: """
            For fucks sake… 1st off, whether or not this qualifies as a “meme”, it doesn’t fit the accepted norm of what most people expect to see when they click on “memes”\n
            \n
            Secondly, and this may sting a little, but peace as we know it is a relatively new thing in world history. I’ve seen a multitude of other comments here proclaiming all those other genocides were okay because they were thousands of years ago. It’s that “in my lifetime” mentality that just fucking grinds my gears. Through thousands of years of history, one genocide is cherry picked and held up as the worst ever, and the citizens who"benefitted" from it are supposed to pick up the tab? My ancestors weren’t Spanish or English, and my family has been here for about 130 years having come from Germany in 1890. How much of the tab am I supposed to pick up?\n
            \n
            Fact of the matter is, the only constant in human history is war. We’re in a (relatively) peaceful era now, and that’s taking into account Ukraine/Russia, Israel/Palestine, and probably another 20 or 30 wars I’m not up to speed on because I’m American and our media doesn’t seem to actually inform us on world events from countries we don’t buy shit from.
            """
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          Clever.\n
          \n
          I’m going through the sourced materials in the American Holocaust book, (great title, by the way! not divisive at all!), and considering the sources, it’s pretty obvious Stannard has an agenda, he’s a “cultural materialist”, an offshoot of cultural Marxism. But you knew that, you just didn’t think I’d look 😉\n
          \n
          Anyway, with as far as I’ve gotten, I can surmise the sources, the majority of them at least, point to textbooks published by “Berkley; University of California press”. Seems a lot of anti-American sentiment comes out of Berkley. Just to appease my curiosity, I’m going to look deeper into this fellow, who, funny enough, cites his own works as well. That’s pretty douchey
          """
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2349
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        +body: """
          Ah, the internet…\n
          \n
          The phrase “That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), **but it’s still very different**” effectively translates to “Even though this happened, this is worse”.\n
          \n
          If you bothered to look at that list, you’ll note the mention of the California Genocide of 1846. Reported casualties between 9,492 and 16,094, with other estimates as high as 120,000. Absolutely fucking horrible and a black mark on American history indeed. However, there are 31 other genocides on that list that are higher in number, with three of those even happening prior to California-\n
          \n
          Dzungam 1755, 480,000-600,000 Taino 1492, 68,000-968,000 Albigensian 1209, 200,000-1,000,000\n
          \n
          I guess it depends on how you define “genocide”, but since Wikipedia is generally using the accepted definition, I feel pretty safe in going with what they say.\n
          \n
          And I did lay out proof, you’re just too caught up in whatever ideology to see it. Feel free to rebut, down vote, cry or whatever makes you feel better, but my point was the world is a horrible place, and terrible things happen to all kinds of groups of people. The “meme” that started all this IS a cherry picked reference to people who were wronged (I’m not disputing they were wronged, but so were… insert any other group of people here). Throughout history, most civilizations are founded on the conquering of another. As horrible as that is, it’s a fact. And after the fact, many of the remaining conqured are treated horribly. Also a fact.\n
          \n
          Lay out some real numbers, cite an authoritative source (sources) and then we can talk. Until then, I hope the best for you and really wish we could get past this bickering bullshit. Life is too short, and trying to pin the sins of one’s father on the current generation isn’t solving shit. Work toward bettering peoples lives without having to exact revenge from people who didn’t have fuck all to do with it.
          """
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
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        +body: "And it’s written by a person, with an agenda and bias just like everyone else. Have a tough time taking anything seriously from someone affiliated with Ward Churchill."
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      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
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        +body: "Citing one book by someone with a clear agenda isn’t a good look either. You picked the fight, feel free to drop it at your leisure."
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      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024
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        +body: "I agree with your points, and yes it’s a better perspective, however, that’s not the world we’re living in. There are some who are hell bent on wiping out continents of people due to any number of reasons ranging from beliefs to the exploitation of natural resources merely for financial gain. I really wish we did live in a world where the word “nuclear” invoked thoughts of clean(er), abundant and cheaper energy vs it invoking dread at the prospect of total annihilation."
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2254
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        +body: """
          Oh wait, my fault. I was responding to your comment “**We are still here**”\n
          \n
          Wasn’t sure which part of my anaolgy you weren’t getting. Now we can peacefully argue about that instead.\n
          \n
          **EDITED FOR TYPO
          """
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        +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/comment/4361340"
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          date: 2023-10-12 21:23:04.0 +02:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697136748 {#2244
          date: 2023-10-12 20:52:28.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 43749
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2189}
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "While I mostly agree, I never said constant war, but where I will disagree in a sense is, the prospect of total annihilation would have been a factor millennia ago had the technology been there. Pick your era, the Romans, the various Chinese dynasties, the English, etc… if they had the means, they would have likely used it, having zero regard for the impact it would have later, mostly due to a poor understanding of the technology. I do believe, at least between “the big three”, meaning the US, Russia and China, nuclear war is an extremely potent deterrent to all out war. It’s the “kids who want to be in the club” that worry me, everyone from NK to Israel. It sucks, but the atomic cat is out of the bag in a world we’re all forced to live in, and the polarization of politics and other bullshit only work to drive that wedge deeper and push us closer to… bad shit."
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      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037
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        +body: """
          As I’m too stupid and it’s to early for me to do these inline…\n
          \n
          Your 1st point, here’s one, had to scroll about 1/8 down the page for. Granted it doesn’t explicitly say it was “okay”, the point stands:\n
          \n
          > “China/Russia/Europe are largely inhabited by people whose ancestry traces back 1000s of years to the same region. That’s very different from North America, where most natives where killed (either through disease or “policy”).\n
          \n
          > That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), but it’s still very different.”\n
          \n
          As you also wanted to be pointed to a source for genocides on the same or larger scale throughout history, allow me to search Wikipedia for you:\n
          \n
          [en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides)\n
          \n
          As to point 3, who exactly determines who is responsible and who will benefit from this paln to raise up America’s indigenous population to their proper station? Are 1st generation immigrants from Ghana going to be required to pay up? How about Natives who’s ancestry dates back to a tribe that exterminated another tribe? Surely that should also qualify as genocide?\n
          \n
          And as to point 4, we, in the west, as I did point out I was American, are in a (**relatively**) peaceful time, which implies that throughout history it has not been, but I guess I need to spell it out for some people.\n
          \n
          At the end of the day, you’re not looking to be enlightened or to learn anything, your post was directed to completely discount my points, or to “*troll*” I will admit I was getting heated reading some of the off the wall bullshit I was seeing, but superlatives aside, I stand by everything I’ve posted. I apologize if you TRULY didn’t know about other genocides, or if your worldview has jaded you to the point where you don’t initially see posts that clearly illustrate what I said, at least in the abstract, and you took the time to go back and reread them and allow it to sink in.\n
          \n
          Feel free to pick apart this post, too. Nothing is more entertaining in a meme thread than for 2 idiots, myself included, to argue about genocide.🙂
          """
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          date: 2023-10-11 14:10:25.0 +02:00
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2204
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +body: "Oversimplifing an empire being overthrown. Seems legit."
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          date: 2023-10-12 18:39:26.0 +02:00
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2281
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        +body: "It’ll be a while before I can read further but I do intend to read all of it. In my biased opinion so far, i reads like a propaganda piece, the words seleceted in some of the passages are used to elicit a response, but maybe I’ll see differently as I continue. I do have a question, when you say “genocide”, are you also including open conflicts? It’s my understanding of the word that it would not, but I want to make sure, especially when numbers are involved, that we’re using the same metrics."
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        -id: 43093
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          date: 2023-10-12 15:46:08.0 +02:00
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      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2263
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        +body: """
          People. On a land mass. Wiped out. People. On a land mass. Wiped out.\n
          \n
          Yeah, I guess I see your point.
          """
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      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
      16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2034
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        +body: "You too buddy! Would enjoy having rational conversations, even note elsewhere in this thread that I’m taking the time to read American Holocaust, as I told myself “why should I ask someone to do something I’m not willing to do myself?” Granted, being close to 50 years old, it likely won’t change my mind, but I reason that if I do read this book, maybe I can better understand other’s worldview, and maybe, just maybe we can have civil conversations instead of the stupid fucking bickering that’s been going on in a… wait for it… meme thread!"
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
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        +body: "Oh, I stand corrected. A link to a Google doc. Should probably submit that to the Wikipedia article I linked as clearly thier information is flawed. You win an internet today."
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     …2
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  +body: """
    You don’t have to apologize to me. If he’s someone who would collaborate with Ward Churchill, he’s got a clear agenda. My source for that was looking him up on Wikipedia, as I had no clue who he was. I’m not going to do the effort of sending you a direct link to the article, so feel free to do it yourself. And grant us all the fact that someone who writes a book has an implied agenda to sell the book.\n
    \n
    And every time you start a post with “Source?”, it’s a bad look.
    """
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2189
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      date: 2023-10-12 22:21:54.0 +02:00
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2196
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "Explain. How is it a false equivalent? Romans controlled the city / region for over a thousand years and were later conqured, and their land stolen, to use the vernacular of this thread."
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2324
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        +body: "So by that logic, the Turks should give Constantinople back to the Romans?"
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      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2307
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          +body: """
            For fucks sake… 1st off, whether or not this qualifies as a “meme”, it doesn’t fit the accepted norm of what most people expect to see when they click on “memes”\n
            \n
            Secondly, and this may sting a little, but peace as we know it is a relatively new thing in world history. I’ve seen a multitude of other comments here proclaiming all those other genocides were okay because they were thousands of years ago. It’s that “in my lifetime” mentality that just fucking grinds my gears. Through thousands of years of history, one genocide is cherry picked and held up as the worst ever, and the citizens who"benefitted" from it are supposed to pick up the tab? My ancestors weren’t Spanish or English, and my family has been here for about 130 years having come from Germany in 1890. How much of the tab am I supposed to pick up?\n
            \n
            Fact of the matter is, the only constant in human history is war. We’re in a (relatively) peaceful era now, and that’s taking into account Ukraine/Russia, Israel/Palestine, and probably another 20 or 30 wars I’m not up to speed on because I’m American and our media doesn’t seem to actually inform us on world events from countries we don’t buy shit from.
            """
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            date: 2023-10-10 19:45:38.0 +02:00
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        +body: """
          Clever.\n
          \n
          I’m going through the sourced materials in the American Holocaust book, (great title, by the way! not divisive at all!), and considering the sources, it’s pretty obvious Stannard has an agenda, he’s a “cultural materialist”, an offshoot of cultural Marxism. But you knew that, you just didn’t think I’d look 😉\n
          \n
          Anyway, with as far as I’ve gotten, I can surmise the sources, the majority of them at least, point to textbooks published by “Berkley; University of California press”. Seems a lot of anti-American sentiment comes out of Berkley. Just to appease my curiosity, I’m going to look deeper into this fellow, who, funny enough, cites his own works as well. That’s pretty douchey
          """
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2349
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: """
          Ah, the internet…\n
          \n
          The phrase “That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), **but it’s still very different**” effectively translates to “Even though this happened, this is worse”.\n
          \n
          If you bothered to look at that list, you’ll note the mention of the California Genocide of 1846. Reported casualties between 9,492 and 16,094, with other estimates as high as 120,000. Absolutely fucking horrible and a black mark on American history indeed. However, there are 31 other genocides on that list that are higher in number, with three of those even happening prior to California-\n
          \n
          Dzungam 1755, 480,000-600,000 Taino 1492, 68,000-968,000 Albigensian 1209, 200,000-1,000,000\n
          \n
          I guess it depends on how you define “genocide”, but since Wikipedia is generally using the accepted definition, I feel pretty safe in going with what they say.\n
          \n
          And I did lay out proof, you’re just too caught up in whatever ideology to see it. Feel free to rebut, down vote, cry or whatever makes you feel better, but my point was the world is a horrible place, and terrible things happen to all kinds of groups of people. The “meme” that started all this IS a cherry picked reference to people who were wronged (I’m not disputing they were wronged, but so were… insert any other group of people here). Throughout history, most civilizations are founded on the conquering of another. As horrible as that is, it’s a fact. And after the fact, many of the remaining conqured are treated horribly. Also a fact.\n
          \n
          Lay out some real numbers, cite an authoritative source (sources) and then we can talk. Until then, I hope the best for you and really wish we could get past this bickering bullshit. Life is too short, and trying to pin the sins of one’s father on the current generation isn’t solving shit. Work toward bettering peoples lives without having to exact revenge from people who didn’t have fuck all to do with it.
          """
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
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        +body: "And it’s written by a person, with an agenda and bias just like everyone else. Have a tough time taking anything seriously from someone affiliated with Ward Churchill."
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      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
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        +body: "Citing one book by someone with a clear agenda isn’t a good look either. You picked the fight, feel free to drop it at your leisure."
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        +"title": 41925
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      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024
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        +body: "I agree with your points, and yes it’s a better perspective, however, that’s not the world we’re living in. There are some who are hell bent on wiping out continents of people due to any number of reasons ranging from beliefs to the exploitation of natural resources merely for financial gain. I really wish we did live in a world where the word “nuclear” invoked thoughts of clean(er), abundant and cheaper energy vs it invoking dread at the prospect of total annihilation."
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          "@ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works"
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2254
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        +body: """
          Oh wait, my fault. I was responding to your comment “**We are still here**”\n
          \n
          Wasn’t sure which part of my anaolgy you weren’t getting. Now we can peacefully argue about that instead.\n
          \n
          **EDITED FOR TYPO
          """
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        +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/comment/4361340"
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          date: 2023-10-12 21:23:04.0 +02:00
        }
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          date: 2023-10-12 20:52:28.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 43749
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2189}
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "While I mostly agree, I never said constant war, but where I will disagree in a sense is, the prospect of total annihilation would have been a factor millennia ago had the technology been there. Pick your era, the Romans, the various Chinese dynasties, the English, etc… if they had the means, they would have likely used it, having zero regard for the impact it would have later, mostly due to a poor understanding of the technology. I do believe, at least between “the big three”, meaning the US, Russia and China, nuclear war is an extremely potent deterrent to all out war. It’s the “kids who want to be in the club” that worry me, everyone from NK to Israel. It sucks, but the atomic cat is out of the bag in a world we’re all forced to live in, and the polarization of politics and other bullshit only work to drive that wedge deeper and push us closer to… bad shit."
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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        +body: """
          As I’m too stupid and it’s to early for me to do these inline…\n
          \n
          Your 1st point, here’s one, had to scroll about 1/8 down the page for. Granted it doesn’t explicitly say it was “okay”, the point stands:\n
          \n
          > “China/Russia/Europe are largely inhabited by people whose ancestry traces back 1000s of years to the same region. That’s very different from North America, where most natives where killed (either through disease or “policy”).\n
          \n
          > That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), but it’s still very different.”\n
          \n
          As you also wanted to be pointed to a source for genocides on the same or larger scale throughout history, allow me to search Wikipedia for you:\n
          \n
          [en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides)\n
          \n
          As to point 3, who exactly determines who is responsible and who will benefit from this paln to raise up America’s indigenous population to their proper station? Are 1st generation immigrants from Ghana going to be required to pay up? How about Natives who’s ancestry dates back to a tribe that exterminated another tribe? Surely that should also qualify as genocide?\n
          \n
          And as to point 4, we, in the west, as I did point out I was American, are in a (**relatively**) peaceful time, which implies that throughout history it has not been, but I guess I need to spell it out for some people.\n
          \n
          At the end of the day, you’re not looking to be enlightened or to learn anything, your post was directed to completely discount my points, or to “*troll*” I will admit I was getting heated reading some of the off the wall bullshit I was seeing, but superlatives aside, I stand by everything I’ve posted. I apologize if you TRULY didn’t know about other genocides, or if your worldview has jaded you to the point where you don’t initially see posts that clearly illustrate what I said, at least in the abstract, and you took the time to go back and reread them and allow it to sink in.\n
          \n
          Feel free to pick apart this post, too. Nothing is more entertaining in a meme thread than for 2 idiots, myself included, to argue about genocide.🙂
          """
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          date: 2023-10-11 14:10:25.0 +02:00
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2204
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +body: "Oversimplifing an empire being overthrown. Seems legit."
        +lang: "en"
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          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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          date: 2023-10-12 18:39:26.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 43459
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2281
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        +body: "It’ll be a while before I can read further but I do intend to read all of it. In my biased opinion so far, i reads like a propaganda piece, the words seleceted in some of the passages are used to elicit a response, but maybe I’ll see differently as I continue. I do have a question, when you say “genocide”, are you also including open conflicts? It’s my understanding of the word that it would not, but I want to make sure, especially when numbers are involved, that we’re using the same metrics."
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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        -id: 43093
        -bodyTs: "'also':66 'bias':22 'conflict':69 'continu':54 'differ':51 'elicit':43 'especi':87 'far':25 'genocid':63 'includ':67 'intend':14 'involv':91 'like':28 'll':2,49 'make':85 'mayb':47 'metric':98 'number':89 'open':68 'opinion':23 'passag':39 'piec':31 'propaganda':30 'question':59 're':94 'read':9,16,27 'respons':45 'say':62 'see':50 'selecet':34 'sure':86 'understand':73 'use':41,95 'want':83 'word':33,76 'would':79"
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        +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/comment/4352097"
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          date: 2023-10-12 15:46:08.0 +02:00
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      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2263
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        +body: """
          People. On a land mass. Wiped out. People. On a land mass. Wiped out.\n
          \n
          Yeah, I guess I see your point.
          """
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          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        -id: 43560
        -bodyTs: "'guess':17 'land':4,11 'mass':5,12 'peopl':1,8 'point':21 'see':19 'wipe':6,13 'yeah':15"
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      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
      16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2034
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "You too buddy! Would enjoy having rational conversations, even note elsewhere in this thread that I’m taking the time to read American Holocaust, as I told myself “why should I ask someone to do something I’m not willing to do myself?” Granted, being close to 50 years old, it likely won’t change my mind, but I reason that if I do read this book, maybe I can better understand other’s worldview, and maybe, just maybe we can have civil conversations instead of the stupid fucking bickering that’s been going on in a… wait for it… meme thread!"
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          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "Oh, I stand corrected. A link to a Google doc. Should probably submit that to the Wikipedia article I linked as clearly thier information is flawed. You win an internet today."
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      date: 2023-10-09 13:23:41.0 +02:00
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     …2
  }
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  +body: """
    You don’t have to apologize to me. If he’s someone who would collaborate with Ward Churchill, he’s got a clear agenda. My source for that was looking him up on Wikipedia, as I had no clue who he was. I’m not going to do the effort of sending you a direct link to the article, so feel free to do it yourself. And grant us all the fact that someone who writes a book has an implied agenda to sell the book.\n
    \n
    And every time you start a post with “Source?”, it’s a bad look.
    """
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2196
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "Explain. How is it a false equivalent? Romans controlled the city / region for over a thousand years and were later conqured, and their land stolen, to use the vernacular of this thread."
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        +body: "So by that logic, the Turks should give Constantinople back to the Romans?"
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      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2307
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          +body: """
            For fucks sake… 1st off, whether or not this qualifies as a “meme”, it doesn’t fit the accepted norm of what most people expect to see when they click on “memes”\n
            \n
            Secondly, and this may sting a little, but peace as we know it is a relatively new thing in world history. I’ve seen a multitude of other comments here proclaiming all those other genocides were okay because they were thousands of years ago. It’s that “in my lifetime” mentality that just fucking grinds my gears. Through thousands of years of history, one genocide is cherry picked and held up as the worst ever, and the citizens who"benefitted" from it are supposed to pick up the tab? My ancestors weren’t Spanish or English, and my family has been here for about 130 years having come from Germany in 1890. How much of the tab am I supposed to pick up?\n
            \n
            Fact of the matter is, the only constant in human history is war. We’re in a (relatively) peaceful era now, and that’s taking into account Ukraine/Russia, Israel/Palestine, and probably another 20 or 30 wars I’m not up to speed on because I’m American and our media doesn’t seem to actually inform us on world events from countries we don’t buy shit from.
            """
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        +body: """
          Clever.\n
          \n
          I’m going through the sourced materials in the American Holocaust book, (great title, by the way! not divisive at all!), and considering the sources, it’s pretty obvious Stannard has an agenda, he’s a “cultural materialist”, an offshoot of cultural Marxism. But you knew that, you just didn’t think I’d look 😉\n
          \n
          Anyway, with as far as I’ve gotten, I can surmise the sources, the majority of them at least, point to textbooks published by “Berkley; University of California press”. Seems a lot of anti-American sentiment comes out of Berkley. Just to appease my curiosity, I’m going to look deeper into this fellow, who, funny enough, cites his own works as well. That’s pretty douchey
          """
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2349
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        +body: """
          Ah, the internet…\n
          \n
          The phrase “That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), **but it’s still very different**” effectively translates to “Even though this happened, this is worse”.\n
          \n
          If you bothered to look at that list, you’ll note the mention of the California Genocide of 1846. Reported casualties between 9,492 and 16,094, with other estimates as high as 120,000. Absolutely fucking horrible and a black mark on American history indeed. However, there are 31 other genocides on that list that are higher in number, with three of those even happening prior to California-\n
          \n
          Dzungam 1755, 480,000-600,000 Taino 1492, 68,000-968,000 Albigensian 1209, 200,000-1,000,000\n
          \n
          I guess it depends on how you define “genocide”, but since Wikipedia is generally using the accepted definition, I feel pretty safe in going with what they say.\n
          \n
          And I did lay out proof, you’re just too caught up in whatever ideology to see it. Feel free to rebut, down vote, cry or whatever makes you feel better, but my point was the world is a horrible place, and terrible things happen to all kinds of groups of people. The “meme” that started all this IS a cherry picked reference to people who were wronged (I’m not disputing they were wronged, but so were… insert any other group of people here). Throughout history, most civilizations are founded on the conquering of another. As horrible as that is, it’s a fact. And after the fact, many of the remaining conqured are treated horribly. Also a fact.\n
          \n
          Lay out some real numbers, cite an authoritative source (sources) and then we can talk. Until then, I hope the best for you and really wish we could get past this bickering bullshit. Life is too short, and trying to pin the sins of one’s father on the current generation isn’t solving shit. Work toward bettering peoples lives without having to exact revenge from people who didn’t have fuck all to do with it.
          """
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
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        +body: "And it’s written by a person, with an agenda and bias just like everyone else. Have a tough time taking anything seriously from someone affiliated with Ward Churchill."
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      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
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        +body: "Citing one book by someone with a clear agenda isn’t a good look either. You picked the fight, feel free to drop it at your leisure."
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      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024
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        +body: "I agree with your points, and yes it’s a better perspective, however, that’s not the world we’re living in. There are some who are hell bent on wiping out continents of people due to any number of reasons ranging from beliefs to the exploitation of natural resources merely for financial gain. I really wish we did live in a world where the word “nuclear” invoked thoughts of clean(er), abundant and cheaper energy vs it invoking dread at the prospect of total annihilation."
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          "@ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works"
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2254
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        +body: """
          Oh wait, my fault. I was responding to your comment “**We are still here**”\n
          \n
          Wasn’t sure which part of my anaolgy you weren’t getting. Now we can peacefully argue about that instead.\n
          \n
          **EDITED FOR TYPO
          """
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
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      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2189
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        +body: """
          You don’t have to apologize to me. If he’s someone who would collaborate with Ward Churchill, he’s got a clear agenda. My source for that was looking him up on Wikipedia, as I had no clue who he was. I’m not going to do the effort of sending you a direct link to the article, so feel free to do it yourself. And grant us all the fact that someone who writes a book has an implied agenda to sell the book.\n
          \n
          And every time you start a post with “Source?”, it’s a bad look.
          """
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          date: 2023-10-12 00:17:28.0 +02:00
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      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383}
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: """
          As I’m too stupid and it’s to early for me to do these inline…\n
          \n
          Your 1st point, here’s one, had to scroll about 1/8 down the page for. Granted it doesn’t explicitly say it was “okay”, the point stands:\n
          \n
          > “China/Russia/Europe are largely inhabited by people whose ancestry traces back 1000s of years to the same region. That’s very different from North America, where most natives where killed (either through disease or “policy”).\n
          \n
          > That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), but it’s still very different.”\n
          \n
          As you also wanted to be pointed to a source for genocides on the same or larger scale throughout history, allow me to search Wikipedia for you:\n
          \n
          [en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides)\n
          \n
          As to point 3, who exactly determines who is responsible and who will benefit from this paln to raise up America’s indigenous population to their proper station? Are 1st generation immigrants from Ghana going to be required to pay up? How about Natives who’s ancestry dates back to a tribe that exterminated another tribe? Surely that should also qualify as genocide?\n
          \n
          And as to point 4, we, in the west, as I did point out I was American, are in a (**relatively**) peaceful time, which implies that throughout history it has not been, but I guess I need to spell it out for some people.\n
          \n
          At the end of the day, you’re not looking to be enlightened or to learn anything, your post was directed to completely discount my points, or to “*troll*” I will admit I was getting heated reading some of the off the wall bullshit I was seeing, but superlatives aside, I stand by everything I’ve posted. I apologize if you TRULY didn’t know about other genocides, or if your worldview has jaded you to the point where you don’t initially see posts that clearly illustrate what I said, at least in the abstract, and you took the time to go back and reread them and allow it to sink in.\n
          \n
          Feel free to pick apart this post, too. Nothing is more entertaining in a meme thread than for 2 idiots, myself included, to argue about genocide.🙂
          """
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2204
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        +body: "Oversimplifing an empire being overthrown. Seems legit."
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2281
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        +body: "It’ll be a while before I can read further but I do intend to read all of it. In my biased opinion so far, i reads like a propaganda piece, the words seleceted in some of the passages are used to elicit a response, but maybe I’ll see differently as I continue. I do have a question, when you say “genocide”, are you also including open conflicts? It’s my understanding of the word that it would not, but I want to make sure, especially when numbers are involved, that we’re using the same metrics."
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        -id: 43093
        -bodyTs: "'also':66 'bias':22 'conflict':69 'continu':54 'differ':51 'elicit':43 'especi':87 'far':25 'genocid':63 'includ':67 'intend':14 'involv':91 'like':28 'll':2,49 'make':85 'mayb':47 'metric':98 'number':89 'open':68 'opinion':23 'passag':39 'piec':31 'propaganda':30 'question':59 're':94 'read':9,16,27 'respons':45 'say':62 'see':50 'selecet':34 'sure':86 'understand':73 'use':41,95 'want':83 'word':33,76 'would':79"
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      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2263
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        +body: """
          People. On a land mass. Wiped out. People. On a land mass. Wiped out.\n
          \n
          Yeah, I guess I see your point.
          """
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      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
      16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2034
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        +body: "You too buddy! Would enjoy having rational conversations, even note elsewhere in this thread that I’m taking the time to read American Holocaust, as I told myself “why should I ask someone to do something I’m not willing to do myself?” Granted, being close to 50 years old, it likely won’t change my mind, but I reason that if I do read this book, maybe I can better understand other’s worldview, and maybe, just maybe we can have civil conversations instead of the stupid fucking bickering that’s been going on in a… wait for it… meme thread!"
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          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
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        +body: "Oh, I stand corrected. A link to a Google doc. Should probably submit that to the Wikipedia article I linked as clearly thier information is flawed. You win an internet today."
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      date: 2023-10-09 13:23:41.0 +02:00
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     …2
  }
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  +body: "While I mostly agree, I never said constant war, but where I will disagree in a sense is, the prospect of total annihilation would have been a factor millennia ago had the technology been there. Pick your era, the Romans, the various Chinese dynasties, the English, etc… if they had the means, they would have likely used it, having zero regard for the impact it would have later, mostly due to a poor understanding of the technology. I do believe, at least between “the big three”, meaning the US, Russia and China, nuclear war is an extremely potent deterrent to all out war. It’s the “kids who want to be in the club” that worry me, everyone from NK to Israel. It sucks, but the atomic cat is out of the bag in a world we’re all forced to live in, and the polarization of politics and other bullshit only work to drive that wedge deeper and push us closer to… bad shit."
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    date: 2023-10-10 22:52:49.0 +02:00
  }
  +"title": 40641
}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2738 …}
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    +slug: "History"
    +title: "History"
    +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/be2234f5-922c-44d7-a193-c11380bdfa00.jpeg"
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      date: 2023-10-12 22:21:54.0 +02:00
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2196
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "Explain. How is it a false equivalent? Romans controlled the city / region for over a thousand years and were later conqured, and their land stolen, to use the vernacular of this thread."
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2324
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "So by that logic, the Turks should give Constantinople back to the Romans?"
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      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2307
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          +body: """
            For fucks sake… 1st off, whether or not this qualifies as a “meme”, it doesn’t fit the accepted norm of what most people expect to see when they click on “memes”\n
            \n
            Secondly, and this may sting a little, but peace as we know it is a relatively new thing in world history. I’ve seen a multitude of other comments here proclaiming all those other genocides were okay because they were thousands of years ago. It’s that “in my lifetime” mentality that just fucking grinds my gears. Through thousands of years of history, one genocide is cherry picked and held up as the worst ever, and the citizens who"benefitted" from it are supposed to pick up the tab? My ancestors weren’t Spanish or English, and my family has been here for about 130 years having come from Germany in 1890. How much of the tab am I supposed to pick up?\n
            \n
            Fact of the matter is, the only constant in human history is war. We’re in a (relatively) peaceful era now, and that’s taking into account Ukraine/Russia, Israel/Palestine, and probably another 20 or 30 wars I’m not up to speed on because I’m American and our media doesn’t seem to actually inform us on world events from countries we don’t buy shit from.
            """
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            date: 2023-10-10 19:45:38.0 +02:00
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        +body: """
          Clever.\n
          \n
          I’m going through the sourced materials in the American Holocaust book, (great title, by the way! not divisive at all!), and considering the sources, it’s pretty obvious Stannard has an agenda, he’s a “cultural materialist”, an offshoot of cultural Marxism. But you knew that, you just didn’t think I’d look 😉\n
          \n
          Anyway, with as far as I’ve gotten, I can surmise the sources, the majority of them at least, point to textbooks published by “Berkley; University of California press”. Seems a lot of anti-American sentiment comes out of Berkley. Just to appease my curiosity, I’m going to look deeper into this fellow, who, funny enough, cites his own works as well. That’s pretty douchey
          """
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2349
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: """
          Ah, the internet…\n
          \n
          The phrase “That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), **but it’s still very different**” effectively translates to “Even though this happened, this is worse”.\n
          \n
          If you bothered to look at that list, you’ll note the mention of the California Genocide of 1846. Reported casualties between 9,492 and 16,094, with other estimates as high as 120,000. Absolutely fucking horrible and a black mark on American history indeed. However, there are 31 other genocides on that list that are higher in number, with three of those even happening prior to California-\n
          \n
          Dzungam 1755, 480,000-600,000 Taino 1492, 68,000-968,000 Albigensian 1209, 200,000-1,000,000\n
          \n
          I guess it depends on how you define “genocide”, but since Wikipedia is generally using the accepted definition, I feel pretty safe in going with what they say.\n
          \n
          And I did lay out proof, you’re just too caught up in whatever ideology to see it. Feel free to rebut, down vote, cry or whatever makes you feel better, but my point was the world is a horrible place, and terrible things happen to all kinds of groups of people. The “meme” that started all this IS a cherry picked reference to people who were wronged (I’m not disputing they were wronged, but so were… insert any other group of people here). Throughout history, most civilizations are founded on the conquering of another. As horrible as that is, it’s a fact. And after the fact, many of the remaining conqured are treated horribly. Also a fact.\n
          \n
          Lay out some real numbers, cite an authoritative source (sources) and then we can talk. Until then, I hope the best for you and really wish we could get past this bickering bullshit. Life is too short, and trying to pin the sins of one’s father on the current generation isn’t solving shit. Work toward bettering peoples lives without having to exact revenge from people who didn’t have fuck all to do with it.
          """
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
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        +body: "And it’s written by a person, with an agenda and bias just like everyone else. Have a tough time taking anything seriously from someone affiliated with Ward Churchill."
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        +"title": 41891
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      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
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        +body: "Citing one book by someone with a clear agenda isn’t a good look either. You picked the fight, feel free to drop it at your leisure."
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      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024
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        +body: "I agree with your points, and yes it’s a better perspective, however, that’s not the world we’re living in. There are some who are hell bent on wiping out continents of people due to any number of reasons ranging from beliefs to the exploitation of natural resources merely for financial gain. I really wish we did live in a world where the word “nuclear” invoked thoughts of clean(er), abundant and cheaper energy vs it invoking dread at the prospect of total annihilation."
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        +body: """
          Oh wait, my fault. I was responding to your comment “**We are still here**”\n
          \n
          Wasn’t sure which part of my anaolgy you weren’t getting. Now we can peacefully argue about that instead.\n
          \n
          **EDITED FOR TYPO
          """
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          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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          date: 2023-10-12 21:23:04.0 +02:00
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      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2189
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        +body: """
          You don’t have to apologize to me. If he’s someone who would collaborate with Ward Churchill, he’s got a clear agenda. My source for that was looking him up on Wikipedia, as I had no clue who he was. I’m not going to do the effort of sending you a direct link to the article, so feel free to do it yourself. And grant us all the fact that someone who writes a book has an implied agenda to sell the book.\n
          \n
          And every time you start a post with “Source?”, it’s a bad look.
          """
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          date: 2023-10-12 00:17:28.0 +02:00
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      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383}
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: """
          As I’m too stupid and it’s to early for me to do these inline…\n
          \n
          Your 1st point, here’s one, had to scroll about 1/8 down the page for. Granted it doesn’t explicitly say it was “okay”, the point stands:\n
          \n
          > “China/Russia/Europe are largely inhabited by people whose ancestry traces back 1000s of years to the same region. That’s very different from North America, where most natives where killed (either through disease or “policy”).\n
          \n
          > That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), but it’s still very different.”\n
          \n
          As you also wanted to be pointed to a source for genocides on the same or larger scale throughout history, allow me to search Wikipedia for you:\n
          \n
          [en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides)\n
          \n
          As to point 3, who exactly determines who is responsible and who will benefit from this paln to raise up America’s indigenous population to their proper station? Are 1st generation immigrants from Ghana going to be required to pay up? How about Natives who’s ancestry dates back to a tribe that exterminated another tribe? Surely that should also qualify as genocide?\n
          \n
          And as to point 4, we, in the west, as I did point out I was American, are in a (**relatively**) peaceful time, which implies that throughout history it has not been, but I guess I need to spell it out for some people.\n
          \n
          At the end of the day, you’re not looking to be enlightened or to learn anything, your post was directed to completely discount my points, or to “*troll*” I will admit I was getting heated reading some of the off the wall bullshit I was seeing, but superlatives aside, I stand by everything I’ve posted. I apologize if you TRULY didn’t know about other genocides, or if your worldview has jaded you to the point where you don’t initially see posts that clearly illustrate what I said, at least in the abstract, and you took the time to go back and reread them and allow it to sink in.\n
          \n
          Feel free to pick apart this post, too. Nothing is more entertaining in a meme thread than for 2 idiots, myself included, to argue about genocide.🙂
          """
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2204
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        +body: "Oversimplifing an empire being overthrown. Seems legit."
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2281
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        +body: "It’ll be a while before I can read further but I do intend to read all of it. In my biased opinion so far, i reads like a propaganda piece, the words seleceted in some of the passages are used to elicit a response, but maybe I’ll see differently as I continue. I do have a question, when you say “genocide”, are you also including open conflicts? It’s my understanding of the word that it would not, but I want to make sure, especially when numbers are involved, that we’re using the same metrics."
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2263
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        +body: """
          People. On a land mass. Wiped out. People. On a land mass. Wiped out.\n
          \n
          Yeah, I guess I see your point.
          """
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          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
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      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
      16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2034
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        +body: "You too buddy! Would enjoy having rational conversations, even note elsewhere in this thread that I’m taking the time to read American Holocaust, as I told myself “why should I ask someone to do something I’m not willing to do myself?” Granted, being close to 50 years old, it likely won’t change my mind, but I reason that if I do read this book, maybe I can better understand other’s worldview, and maybe, just maybe we can have civil conversations instead of the stupid fucking bickering that’s been going on in a… wait for it… meme thread!"
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          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
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        +body: "Oh, I stand corrected. A link to a Google doc. Should probably submit that to the Wikipedia article I linked as clearly thier information is flawed. You win an internet today."
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      date: 2023-10-09 13:23:41.0 +02:00
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     …2
  }
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  +body: "While I mostly agree, I never said constant war, but where I will disagree in a sense is, the prospect of total annihilation would have been a factor millennia ago had the technology been there. Pick your era, the Romans, the various Chinese dynasties, the English, etc… if they had the means, they would have likely used it, having zero regard for the impact it would have later, mostly due to a poor understanding of the technology. I do believe, at least between “the big three”, meaning the US, Russia and China, nuclear war is an extremely potent deterrent to all out war. It’s the “kids who want to be in the club” that worry me, everyone from NK to Israel. It sucks, but the atomic cat is out of the bag in a world we’re all forced to live in, and the polarization of politics and other bullshit only work to drive that wedge deeper and push us closer to… bad shit."
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2738 …}
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    +slug: "History"
    +title: "History"
    +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/be2234f5-922c-44d7-a193-c11380bdfa00.jpeg"
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      date: 2023-10-12 22:21:54.0 +02:00
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2196
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +body: "Explain. How is it a false equivalent? Romans controlled the city / region for over a thousand years and were later conqured, and their land stolen, to use the vernacular of this thread."
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2324
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "So by that logic, the Turks should give Constantinople back to the Romans?"
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      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2307
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          +body: """
            For fucks sake… 1st off, whether or not this qualifies as a “meme”, it doesn’t fit the accepted norm of what most people expect to see when they click on “memes”\n
            \n
            Secondly, and this may sting a little, but peace as we know it is a relatively new thing in world history. I’ve seen a multitude of other comments here proclaiming all those other genocides were okay because they were thousands of years ago. It’s that “in my lifetime” mentality that just fucking grinds my gears. Through thousands of years of history, one genocide is cherry picked and held up as the worst ever, and the citizens who"benefitted" from it are supposed to pick up the tab? My ancestors weren’t Spanish or English, and my family has been here for about 130 years having come from Germany in 1890. How much of the tab am I supposed to pick up?\n
            \n
            Fact of the matter is, the only constant in human history is war. We’re in a (relatively) peaceful era now, and that’s taking into account Ukraine/Russia, Israel/Palestine, and probably another 20 or 30 wars I’m not up to speed on because I’m American and our media doesn’t seem to actually inform us on world events from countries we don’t buy shit from.
            """
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            date: 2023-10-10 19:45:38.0 +02:00
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        +body: """
          Clever.\n
          \n
          I’m going through the sourced materials in the American Holocaust book, (great title, by the way! not divisive at all!), and considering the sources, it’s pretty obvious Stannard has an agenda, he’s a “cultural materialist”, an offshoot of cultural Marxism. But you knew that, you just didn’t think I’d look 😉\n
          \n
          Anyway, with as far as I’ve gotten, I can surmise the sources, the majority of them at least, point to textbooks published by “Berkley; University of California press”. Seems a lot of anti-American sentiment comes out of Berkley. Just to appease my curiosity, I’m going to look deeper into this fellow, who, funny enough, cites his own works as well. That’s pretty douchey
          """
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2349
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: """
          Ah, the internet…\n
          \n
          The phrase “That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), **but it’s still very different**” effectively translates to “Even though this happened, this is worse”.\n
          \n
          If you bothered to look at that list, you’ll note the mention of the California Genocide of 1846. Reported casualties between 9,492 and 16,094, with other estimates as high as 120,000. Absolutely fucking horrible and a black mark on American history indeed. However, there are 31 other genocides on that list that are higher in number, with three of those even happening prior to California-\n
          \n
          Dzungam 1755, 480,000-600,000 Taino 1492, 68,000-968,000 Albigensian 1209, 200,000-1,000,000\n
          \n
          I guess it depends on how you define “genocide”, but since Wikipedia is generally using the accepted definition, I feel pretty safe in going with what they say.\n
          \n
          And I did lay out proof, you’re just too caught up in whatever ideology to see it. Feel free to rebut, down vote, cry or whatever makes you feel better, but my point was the world is a horrible place, and terrible things happen to all kinds of groups of people. The “meme” that started all this IS a cherry picked reference to people who were wronged (I’m not disputing they were wronged, but so were… insert any other group of people here). Throughout history, most civilizations are founded on the conquering of another. As horrible as that is, it’s a fact. And after the fact, many of the remaining conqured are treated horribly. Also a fact.\n
          \n
          Lay out some real numbers, cite an authoritative source (sources) and then we can talk. Until then, I hope the best for you and really wish we could get past this bickering bullshit. Life is too short, and trying to pin the sins of one’s father on the current generation isn’t solving shit. Work toward bettering peoples lives without having to exact revenge from people who didn’t have fuck all to do with it.
          """
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
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        +body: "And it’s written by a person, with an agenda and bias just like everyone else. Have a tough time taking anything seriously from someone affiliated with Ward Churchill."
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      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
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        +body: "Citing one book by someone with a clear agenda isn’t a good look either. You picked the fight, feel free to drop it at your leisure."
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      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024
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        +body: "I agree with your points, and yes it’s a better perspective, however, that’s not the world we’re living in. There are some who are hell bent on wiping out continents of people due to any number of reasons ranging from beliefs to the exploitation of natural resources merely for financial gain. I really wish we did live in a world where the word “nuclear” invoked thoughts of clean(er), abundant and cheaper energy vs it invoking dread at the prospect of total annihilation."
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        -id: 41306
        -bodyTs: "'abund':73 'agre':2 'annihil':86 'belief':44 'bent':29 'better':11 'cheaper':75 'clean':71 'contin':33 'dread':80 'due':36 'energi':76 'er':72 'exploit':47 'financi':53 'gain':54 'hell':28 'howev':13 'invok':68,79 'live':21,60 'mere':51 'natur':49 'nuclear':67 'number':39 'peopl':35 'perspect':12 'point':5 'prospect':83 'rang':42 're':20 'realli':56 'reason':41 'resourc':50 'thought':69 'total':85 'vs':77 'wipe':31 'wish':57 'word':66 'world':18,63 'yes':7"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-10-11 13:43:35.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41306
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2254
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
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        +body: """
          Oh wait, my fault. I was responding to your comment “**We are still here**”\n
          \n
          Wasn’t sure which part of my anaolgy you weren’t getting. Now we can peacefully argue about that instead.\n
          \n
          **EDITED FOR TYPO
          """
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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          date: 2023-10-12 21:23:04.0 +02:00
        }
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          date: 2023-10-12 20:52:28.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 43749
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2189
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: """
          You don’t have to apologize to me. If he’s someone who would collaborate with Ward Churchill, he’s got a clear agenda. My source for that was looking him up on Wikipedia, as I had no clue who he was. I’m not going to do the effort of sending you a direct link to the article, so feel free to do it yourself. And grant us all the fact that someone who writes a book has an implied agenda to sell the book.\n
          \n
          And every time you start a post with “Source?”, it’s a bad look.
          """
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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          date: 2023-10-12 00:17:28.0 +02:00
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      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383}
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: """
          As I’m too stupid and it’s to early for me to do these inline…\n
          \n
          Your 1st point, here’s one, had to scroll about 1/8 down the page for. Granted it doesn’t explicitly say it was “okay”, the point stands:\n
          \n
          > “China/Russia/Europe are largely inhabited by people whose ancestry traces back 1000s of years to the same region. That’s very different from North America, where most natives where killed (either through disease or “policy”).\n
          \n
          > That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), but it’s still very different.”\n
          \n
          As you also wanted to be pointed to a source for genocides on the same or larger scale throughout history, allow me to search Wikipedia for you:\n
          \n
          [en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides)\n
          \n
          As to point 3, who exactly determines who is responsible and who will benefit from this paln to raise up America’s indigenous population to their proper station? Are 1st generation immigrants from Ghana going to be required to pay up? How about Natives who’s ancestry dates back to a tribe that exterminated another tribe? Surely that should also qualify as genocide?\n
          \n
          And as to point 4, we, in the west, as I did point out I was American, are in a (**relatively**) peaceful time, which implies that throughout history it has not been, but I guess I need to spell it out for some people.\n
          \n
          At the end of the day, you’re not looking to be enlightened or to learn anything, your post was directed to completely discount my points, or to “*troll*” I will admit I was getting heated reading some of the off the wall bullshit I was seeing, but superlatives aside, I stand by everything I’ve posted. I apologize if you TRULY didn’t know about other genocides, or if your worldview has jaded you to the point where you don’t initially see posts that clearly illustrate what I said, at least in the abstract, and you took the time to go back and reread them and allow it to sink in.\n
          \n
          Feel free to pick apart this post, too. Nothing is more entertaining in a meme thread than for 2 idiots, myself included, to argue about genocide.🙂
          """
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2204
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +body: "Oversimplifing an empire being overthrown. Seems legit."
        +lang: "en"
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          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        -bodyTs: "'empir':3 'legit':7 'oversimplif':1 'overthrown':5 'seem':6"
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          date: 2023-10-12 18:39:26.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 43459
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2281
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "It’ll be a while before I can read further but I do intend to read all of it. In my biased opinion so far, i reads like a propaganda piece, the words seleceted in some of the passages are used to elicit a response, but maybe I’ll see differently as I continue. I do have a question, when you say “genocide”, are you also including open conflicts? It’s my understanding of the word that it would not, but I want to make sure, especially when numbers are involved, that we’re using the same metrics."
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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        -id: 43093
        -bodyTs: "'also':66 'bias':22 'conflict':69 'continu':54 'differ':51 'elicit':43 'especi':87 'far':25 'genocid':63 'includ':67 'intend':14 'involv':91 'like':28 'll':2,49 'make':85 'mayb':47 'metric':98 'number':89 'open':68 'opinion':23 'passag':39 'piec':31 'propaganda':30 'question':59 're':94 'read':9,16,27 'respons':45 'say':62 'see':50 'selecet':34 'sure':86 'understand':73 'use':41,95 'want':83 'word':33,76 'would':79"
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          date: 2023-10-12 15:46:08.0 +02:00
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      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2263
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        +body: """
          People. On a land mass. Wiped out. People. On a land mass. Wiped out.\n
          \n
          Yeah, I guess I see your point.
          """
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          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
      16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2034
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "You too buddy! Would enjoy having rational conversations, even note elsewhere in this thread that I’m taking the time to read American Holocaust, as I told myself “why should I ask someone to do something I’m not willing to do myself?” Granted, being close to 50 years old, it likely won’t change my mind, but I reason that if I do read this book, maybe I can better understand other’s worldview, and maybe, just maybe we can have civil conversations instead of the stupid fucking bickering that’s been going on in a… wait for it… meme thread!"
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
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        +body: "Oh, I stand corrected. A link to a Google doc. Should probably submit that to the Wikipedia article I linked as clearly thier information is flawed. You win an internet today."
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    ]
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      date: 2023-10-09 13:23:41.0 +02:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
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  +body: "While I mostly agree, I never said constant war, but where I will disagree in a sense is, the prospect of total annihilation would have been a factor millennia ago had the technology been there. Pick your era, the Romans, the various Chinese dynasties, the English, etc… if they had the means, they would have likely used it, having zero regard for the impact it would have later, mostly due to a poor understanding of the technology. I do believe, at least between “the big three”, meaning the US, Russia and China, nuclear war is an extremely potent deterrent to all out war. It’s the “kids who want to be in the club” that worry me, everyone from NK to Israel. It sucks, but the atomic cat is out of the bag in a world we’re all forced to live in, and the polarization of politics and other bullshit only work to drive that wedge deeper and push us closer to… bad shit."
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037
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    +slug: "History"
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2196
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "Explain. How is it a false equivalent? Romans controlled the city / region for over a thousand years and were later conqured, and their land stolen, to use the vernacular of this thread."
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2324
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        +body: "So by that logic, the Turks should give Constantinople back to the Romans?"
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      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2307
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          +body: """
            For fucks sake… 1st off, whether or not this qualifies as a “meme”, it doesn’t fit the accepted norm of what most people expect to see when they click on “memes”\n
            \n
            Secondly, and this may sting a little, but peace as we know it is a relatively new thing in world history. I’ve seen a multitude of other comments here proclaiming all those other genocides were okay because they were thousands of years ago. It’s that “in my lifetime” mentality that just fucking grinds my gears. Through thousands of years of history, one genocide is cherry picked and held up as the worst ever, and the citizens who"benefitted" from it are supposed to pick up the tab? My ancestors weren’t Spanish or English, and my family has been here for about 130 years having come from Germany in 1890. How much of the tab am I supposed to pick up?\n
            \n
            Fact of the matter is, the only constant in human history is war. We’re in a (relatively) peaceful era now, and that’s taking into account Ukraine/Russia, Israel/Palestine, and probably another 20 or 30 wars I’m not up to speed on because I’m American and our media doesn’t seem to actually inform us on world events from countries we don’t buy shit from.
            """
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        +body: """
          Clever.\n
          \n
          I’m going through the sourced materials in the American Holocaust book, (great title, by the way! not divisive at all!), and considering the sources, it’s pretty obvious Stannard has an agenda, he’s a “cultural materialist”, an offshoot of cultural Marxism. But you knew that, you just didn’t think I’d look 😉\n
          \n
          Anyway, with as far as I’ve gotten, I can surmise the sources, the majority of them at least, point to textbooks published by “Berkley; University of California press”. Seems a lot of anti-American sentiment comes out of Berkley. Just to appease my curiosity, I’m going to look deeper into this fellow, who, funny enough, cites his own works as well. That’s pretty douchey
          """
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2349
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        +body: """
          Ah, the internet…\n
          \n
          The phrase “That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), **but it’s still very different**” effectively translates to “Even though this happened, this is worse”.\n
          \n
          If you bothered to look at that list, you’ll note the mention of the California Genocide of 1846. Reported casualties between 9,492 and 16,094, with other estimates as high as 120,000. Absolutely fucking horrible and a black mark on American history indeed. However, there are 31 other genocides on that list that are higher in number, with three of those even happening prior to California-\n
          \n
          Dzungam 1755, 480,000-600,000 Taino 1492, 68,000-968,000 Albigensian 1209, 200,000-1,000,000\n
          \n
          I guess it depends on how you define “genocide”, but since Wikipedia is generally using the accepted definition, I feel pretty safe in going with what they say.\n
          \n
          And I did lay out proof, you’re just too caught up in whatever ideology to see it. Feel free to rebut, down vote, cry or whatever makes you feel better, but my point was the world is a horrible place, and terrible things happen to all kinds of groups of people. The “meme” that started all this IS a cherry picked reference to people who were wronged (I’m not disputing they were wronged, but so were… insert any other group of people here). Throughout history, most civilizations are founded on the conquering of another. As horrible as that is, it’s a fact. And after the fact, many of the remaining conqured are treated horribly. Also a fact.\n
          \n
          Lay out some real numbers, cite an authoritative source (sources) and then we can talk. Until then, I hope the best for you and really wish we could get past this bickering bullshit. Life is too short, and trying to pin the sins of one’s father on the current generation isn’t solving shit. Work toward bettering peoples lives without having to exact revenge from people who didn’t have fuck all to do with it.
          """
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
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        +body: "And it’s written by a person, with an agenda and bias just like everyone else. Have a tough time taking anything seriously from someone affiliated with Ward Churchill."
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      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
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        +body: "Citing one book by someone with a clear agenda isn’t a good look either. You picked the fight, feel free to drop it at your leisure."
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      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024
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        +body: "I agree with your points, and yes it’s a better perspective, however, that’s not the world we’re living in. There are some who are hell bent on wiping out continents of people due to any number of reasons ranging from beliefs to the exploitation of natural resources merely for financial gain. I really wish we did live in a world where the word “nuclear” invoked thoughts of clean(er), abundant and cheaper energy vs it invoking dread at the prospect of total annihilation."
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        -bodyTs: "'abund':73 'agre':2 'annihil':86 'belief':44 'bent':29 'better':11 'cheaper':75 'clean':71 'contin':33 'dread':80 'due':36 'energi':76 'er':72 'exploit':47 'financi':53 'gain':54 'hell':28 'howev':13 'invok':68,79 'live':21,60 'mere':51 'natur':49 'nuclear':67 'number':39 'peopl':35 'perspect':12 'point':5 'prospect':83 'rang':42 're':20 'realli':56 'reason':41 'resourc':50 'thought':69 'total':85 'vs':77 'wipe':31 'wish':57 'word':66 'world':18,63 'yes':7"
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          date: 2023-10-11 13:43:35.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 41306
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2254
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
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        +body: """
          Oh wait, my fault. I was responding to your comment “**We are still here**”\n
          \n
          Wasn’t sure which part of my anaolgy you weren’t getting. Now we can peacefully argue about that instead.\n
          \n
          **EDITED FOR TYPO
          """
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          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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          date: 2023-10-12 21:23:04.0 +02:00
        }
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          date: 2023-10-12 20:52:28.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 43749
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2189
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: """
          You don’t have to apologize to me. If he’s someone who would collaborate with Ward Churchill, he’s got a clear agenda. My source for that was looking him up on Wikipedia, as I had no clue who he was. I’m not going to do the effort of sending you a direct link to the article, so feel free to do it yourself. And grant us all the fact that someone who writes a book has an implied agenda to sell the book.\n
          \n
          And every time you start a post with “Source?”, it’s a bad look.
          """
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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          date: 2023-10-12 00:17:28.0 +02:00
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      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "While I mostly agree, I never said constant war, but where I will disagree in a sense is, the prospect of total annihilation would have been a factor millennia ago had the technology been there. Pick your era, the Romans, the various Chinese dynasties, the English, etc… if they had the means, they would have likely used it, having zero regard for the impact it would have later, mostly due to a poor understanding of the technology. I do believe, at least between “the big three”, meaning the US, Russia and China, nuclear war is an extremely potent deterrent to all out war. It’s the “kids who want to be in the club” that worry me, everyone from NK to Israel. It sucks, but the atomic cat is out of the bag in a world we’re all forced to live in, and the polarization of politics and other bullshit only work to drive that wedge deeper and push us closer to… bad shit."
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037}
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2204
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +body: "Oversimplifing an empire being overthrown. Seems legit."
        +lang: "en"
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          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        -bodyTs: "'empir':3 'legit':7 'oversimplif':1 'overthrown':5 'seem':6"
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          date: 2023-10-12 18:39:26.0 +02:00
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2281
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        +body: "It’ll be a while before I can read further but I do intend to read all of it. In my biased opinion so far, i reads like a propaganda piece, the words seleceted in some of the passages are used to elicit a response, but maybe I’ll see differently as I continue. I do have a question, when you say “genocide”, are you also including open conflicts? It’s my understanding of the word that it would not, but I want to make sure, especially when numbers are involved, that we’re using the same metrics."
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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        -id: 43093
        -bodyTs: "'also':66 'bias':22 'conflict':69 'continu':54 'differ':51 'elicit':43 'especi':87 'far':25 'genocid':63 'includ':67 'intend':14 'involv':91 'like':28 'll':2,49 'make':85 'mayb':47 'metric':98 'number':89 'open':68 'opinion':23 'passag':39 'piec':31 'propaganda':30 'question':59 're':94 'read':9,16,27 'respons':45 'say':62 'see':50 'selecet':34 'sure':86 'understand':73 'use':41,95 'want':83 'word':33,76 'would':79"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/comment/4352097"
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          date: 2023-10-12 15:46:08.0 +02:00
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      }
      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2263
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: """
          People. On a land mass. Wiped out. People. On a land mass. Wiped out.\n
          \n
          Yeah, I guess I see your point.
          """
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        -id: 43560
        -bodyTs: "'guess':17 'land':4,11 'mass':5,12 'peopl':1,8 'point':21 'see':19 'wipe':6,13 'yeah':15"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-10-12 19:25:03.0 +02:00
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      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
      16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2034
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "You too buddy! Would enjoy having rational conversations, even note elsewhere in this thread that I’m taking the time to read American Holocaust, as I told myself “why should I ask someone to do something I’m not willing to do myself?” Granted, being close to 50 years old, it likely won’t change my mind, but I reason that if I do read this book, maybe I can better understand other’s worldview, and maybe, just maybe we can have civil conversations instead of the stupid fucking bickering that’s been going on in a… wait for it… meme thread!"
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          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "Oh, I stand corrected. A link to a Google doc. Should probably submit that to the Wikipedia article I linked as clearly thier information is flawed. You win an internet today."
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    ]
    -id: 3914
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      date: 2023-10-09 13:23:41.0 +02:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
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  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
  +body: """
    As I’m too stupid and it’s to early for me to do these inline…\n
    \n
    Your 1st point, here’s one, had to scroll about 1/8 down the page for. Granted it doesn’t explicitly say it was “okay”, the point stands:\n
    \n
    > “China/Russia/Europe are largely inhabited by people whose ancestry traces back 1000s of years to the same region. That’s very different from North America, where most natives where killed (either through disease or “policy”).\n
    \n
    > That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), but it’s still very different.”\n
    \n
    As you also wanted to be pointed to a source for genocides on the same or larger scale throughout history, allow me to search Wikipedia for you:\n
    \n
    [en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides)\n
    \n
    As to point 3, who exactly determines who is responsible and who will benefit from this paln to raise up America’s indigenous population to their proper station? Are 1st generation immigrants from Ghana going to be required to pay up? How about Natives who’s ancestry dates back to a tribe that exterminated another tribe? Surely that should also qualify as genocide?\n
    \n
    And as to point 4, we, in the west, as I did point out I was American, are in a (**relatively**) peaceful time, which implies that throughout history it has not been, but I guess I need to spell it out for some people.\n
    \n
    At the end of the day, you’re not looking to be enlightened or to learn anything, your post was directed to completely discount my points, or to “*troll*” I will admit I was getting heated reading some of the off the wall bullshit I was seeing, but superlatives aside, I stand by everything I’ve posted. I apologize if you TRULY didn’t know about other genocides, or if your worldview has jaded you to the point where you don’t initially see posts that clearly illustrate what I said, at least in the abstract, and you took the time to go back and reread them and allow it to sink in.\n
    \n
    Feel free to pick apart this post, too. Nothing is more entertaining in a meme thread than for 2 idiots, myself included, to argue about genocide.🙂
    """
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  +ranking: 0
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    date: 2023-10-11 14:10:25.0 +02:00
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  +"title": 41323
}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2738 …}
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    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2752 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2751 …}
    +slug: "History"
    +title: "History"
    +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/be2234f5-922c-44d7-a193-c11380bdfa00.jpeg"
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      date: 2023-10-12 22:21:54.0 +02:00
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    +children: [
      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2196
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +body: "Explain. How is it a false equivalent? Romans controlled the city / region for over a thousand years and were later conqured, and their land stolen, to use the vernacular of this thread."
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        -bodyTs: "'citi':11 'conqur':21 'control':9 'equival':7 'explain':1 'fals':6 'land':24 'later':20 'region':12 'roman':8 'stolen':25 'thousand':16 'thread':32 'use':27 'vernacular':29 'year':17"
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2324
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "So by that logic, the Turks should give Constantinople back to the Romans?"
        +lang: "en"
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      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2307
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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          +body: """
            For fucks sake… 1st off, whether or not this qualifies as a “meme”, it doesn’t fit the accepted norm of what most people expect to see when they click on “memes”\n
            \n
            Secondly, and this may sting a little, but peace as we know it is a relatively new thing in world history. I’ve seen a multitude of other comments here proclaiming all those other genocides were okay because they were thousands of years ago. It’s that “in my lifetime” mentality that just fucking grinds my gears. Through thousands of years of history, one genocide is cherry picked and held up as the worst ever, and the citizens who"benefitted" from it are supposed to pick up the tab? My ancestors weren’t Spanish or English, and my family has been here for about 130 years having come from Germany in 1890. How much of the tab am I supposed to pick up?\n
            \n
            Fact of the matter is, the only constant in human history is war. We’re in a (relatively) peaceful era now, and that’s taking into account Ukraine/Russia, Israel/Palestine, and probably another 20 or 30 wars I’m not up to speed on because I’m American and our media doesn’t seem to actually inform us on world events from countries we don’t buy shit from.
            """
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            date: 2023-10-10 19:45:38.0 +02:00
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          +"title": 40337
        }
        +body: """
          Clever.\n
          \n
          I’m going through the sourced materials in the American Holocaust book, (great title, by the way! not divisive at all!), and considering the sources, it’s pretty obvious Stannard has an agenda, he’s a “cultural materialist”, an offshoot of cultural Marxism. But you knew that, you just didn’t think I’d look 😉\n
          \n
          Anyway, with as far as I’ve gotten, I can surmise the sources, the majority of them at least, point to textbooks published by “Berkley; University of California press”. Seems a lot of anti-American sentiment comes out of Berkley. Just to appease my curiosity, I’m going to look deeper into this fellow, who, funny enough, cites his own works as well. That’s pretty douchey
          """
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2349
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2042 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: """
          Ah, the internet…\n
          \n
          The phrase “That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), **but it’s still very different**” effectively translates to “Even though this happened, this is worse”.\n
          \n
          If you bothered to look at that list, you’ll note the mention of the California Genocide of 1846. Reported casualties between 9,492 and 16,094, with other estimates as high as 120,000. Absolutely fucking horrible and a black mark on American history indeed. However, there are 31 other genocides on that list that are higher in number, with three of those even happening prior to California-\n
          \n
          Dzungam 1755, 480,000-600,000 Taino 1492, 68,000-968,000 Albigensian 1209, 200,000-1,000,000\n
          \n
          I guess it depends on how you define “genocide”, but since Wikipedia is generally using the accepted definition, I feel pretty safe in going with what they say.\n
          \n
          And I did lay out proof, you’re just too caught up in whatever ideology to see it. Feel free to rebut, down vote, cry or whatever makes you feel better, but my point was the world is a horrible place, and terrible things happen to all kinds of groups of people. The “meme” that started all this IS a cherry picked reference to people who were wronged (I’m not disputing they were wronged, but so were… insert any other group of people here). Throughout history, most civilizations are founded on the conquering of another. As horrible as that is, it’s a fact. And after the fact, many of the remaining conqured are treated horribly. Also a fact.\n
          \n
          Lay out some real numbers, cite an authoritative source (sources) and then we can talk. Until then, I hope the best for you and really wish we could get past this bickering bullshit. Life is too short, and trying to pin the sins of one’s father on the current generation isn’t solving shit. Work toward bettering peoples lives without having to exact revenge from people who didn’t have fuck all to do with it.
          """
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
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        +body: "And it’s written by a person, with an agenda and bias just like everyone else. Have a tough time taking anything seriously from someone affiliated with Ward Churchill."
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        +"title": 41891
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      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
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        +body: "Citing one book by someone with a clear agenda isn’t a good look either. You picked the fight, feel free to drop it at your leisure."
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      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024
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        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "I agree with your points, and yes it’s a better perspective, however, that’s not the world we’re living in. There are some who are hell bent on wiping out continents of people due to any number of reasons ranging from beliefs to the exploitation of natural resources merely for financial gain. I really wish we did live in a world where the word “nuclear” invoked thoughts of clean(er), abundant and cheaper energy vs it invoking dread at the prospect of total annihilation."
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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          date: 2023-10-11 13:43:35.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 41306
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2254
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
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        +body: """
          Oh wait, my fault. I was responding to your comment “**We are still here**”\n
          \n
          Wasn’t sure which part of my anaolgy you weren’t getting. Now we can peacefully argue about that instead.\n
          \n
          **EDITED FOR TYPO
          """
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          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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          date: 2023-10-12 21:23:04.0 +02:00
        }
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          date: 2023-10-12 20:52:28.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 43749
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2189
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: """
          You don’t have to apologize to me. If he’s someone who would collaborate with Ward Churchill, he’s got a clear agenda. My source for that was looking him up on Wikipedia, as I had no clue who he was. I’m not going to do the effort of sending you a direct link to the article, so feel free to do it yourself. And grant us all the fact that someone who writes a book has an implied agenda to sell the book.\n
          \n
          And every time you start a post with “Source?”, it’s a bad look.
          """
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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          date: 2023-10-12 00:17:28.0 +02:00
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      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "While I mostly agree, I never said constant war, but where I will disagree in a sense is, the prospect of total annihilation would have been a factor millennia ago had the technology been there. Pick your era, the Romans, the various Chinese dynasties, the English, etc… if they had the means, they would have likely used it, having zero regard for the impact it would have later, mostly due to a poor understanding of the technology. I do believe, at least between “the big three”, meaning the US, Russia and China, nuclear war is an extremely potent deterrent to all out war. It’s the “kids who want to be in the club” that worry me, everyone from NK to Israel. It sucks, but the atomic cat is out of the bag in a world we’re all forced to live in, and the polarization of politics and other bullshit only work to drive that wedge deeper and push us closer to… bad shit."
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works"
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      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037}
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2204
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +body: "Oversimplifing an empire being overthrown. Seems legit."
        +lang: "en"
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          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2281
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        +body: "It’ll be a while before I can read further but I do intend to read all of it. In my biased opinion so far, i reads like a propaganda piece, the words seleceted in some of the passages are used to elicit a response, but maybe I’ll see differently as I continue. I do have a question, when you say “genocide”, are you also including open conflicts? It’s my understanding of the word that it would not, but I want to make sure, especially when numbers are involved, that we’re using the same metrics."
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
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        -bodyTs: "'also':66 'bias':22 'conflict':69 'continu':54 'differ':51 'elicit':43 'especi':87 'far':25 'genocid':63 'includ':67 'intend':14 'involv':91 'like':28 'll':2,49 'make':85 'mayb':47 'metric':98 'number':89 'open':68 'opinion':23 'passag':39 'piec':31 'propaganda':30 'question':59 're':94 'read':9,16,27 'respons':45 'say':62 'see':50 'selecet':34 'sure':86 'understand':73 'use':41,95 'want':83 'word':33,76 'would':79"
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      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2263
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: """
          People. On a land mass. Wiped out. People. On a land mass. Wiped out.\n
          \n
          Yeah, I guess I see your point.
          """
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        -id: 43560
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      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
      16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2034
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "You too buddy! Would enjoy having rational conversations, even note elsewhere in this thread that I’m taking the time to read American Holocaust, as I told myself “why should I ask someone to do something I’m not willing to do myself?” Granted, being close to 50 years old, it likely won’t change my mind, but I reason that if I do read this book, maybe I can better understand other’s worldview, and maybe, just maybe we can have civil conversations instead of the stupid fucking bickering that’s been going on in a… wait for it… meme thread!"
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          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "Oh, I stand corrected. A link to a Google doc. Should probably submit that to the Wikipedia article I linked as clearly thier information is flawed. You win an internet today."
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    ]
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      date: 2023-10-09 13:23:41.0 +02:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
  +body: """
    As I’m too stupid and it’s to early for me to do these inline…\n
    \n
    Your 1st point, here’s one, had to scroll about 1/8 down the page for. Granted it doesn’t explicitly say it was “okay”, the point stands:\n
    \n
    > “China/Russia/Europe are largely inhabited by people whose ancestry traces back 1000s of years to the same region. That’s very different from North America, where most natives where killed (either through disease or “policy”).\n
    \n
    > That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), but it’s still very different.”\n
    \n
    As you also wanted to be pointed to a source for genocides on the same or larger scale throughout history, allow me to search Wikipedia for you:\n
    \n
    [en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides)\n
    \n
    As to point 3, who exactly determines who is responsible and who will benefit from this paln to raise up America’s indigenous population to their proper station? Are 1st generation immigrants from Ghana going to be required to pay up? How about Natives who’s ancestry dates back to a tribe that exterminated another tribe? Surely that should also qualify as genocide?\n
    \n
    And as to point 4, we, in the west, as I did point out I was American, are in a (**relatively**) peaceful time, which implies that throughout history it has not been, but I guess I need to spell it out for some people.\n
    \n
    At the end of the day, you’re not looking to be enlightened or to learn anything, your post was directed to completely discount my points, or to “*troll*” I will admit I was getting heated reading some of the off the wall bullshit I was seeing, but superlatives aside, I stand by everything I’ve posted. I apologize if you TRULY didn’t know about other genocides, or if your worldview has jaded you to the point where you don’t initially see posts that clearly illustrate what I said, at least in the abstract, and you took the time to go back and reread them and allow it to sink in.\n
    \n
    Feel free to pick apart this post, too. Nothing is more entertaining in a meme thread than for 2 idiots, myself included, to argue about genocide.🙂
    """
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  -id: 41323
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  +ranking: 0
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    date: 2023-10-11 14:10:25.0 +02:00
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  +"title": 41323
}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2738 …}
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    +slug: "History"
    +title: "History"
    +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/be2234f5-922c-44d7-a193-c11380bdfa00.jpeg"
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      date: 2023-10-12 22:21:54.0 +02:00
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2196
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "Explain. How is it a false equivalent? Romans controlled the city / region for over a thousand years and were later conqured, and their land stolen, to use the vernacular of this thread."
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2324
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "So by that logic, the Turks should give Constantinople back to the Romans?"
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      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2307
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          +body: """
            For fucks sake… 1st off, whether or not this qualifies as a “meme”, it doesn’t fit the accepted norm of what most people expect to see when they click on “memes”\n
            \n
            Secondly, and this may sting a little, but peace as we know it is a relatively new thing in world history. I’ve seen a multitude of other comments here proclaiming all those other genocides were okay because they were thousands of years ago. It’s that “in my lifetime” mentality that just fucking grinds my gears. Through thousands of years of history, one genocide is cherry picked and held up as the worst ever, and the citizens who"benefitted" from it are supposed to pick up the tab? My ancestors weren’t Spanish or English, and my family has been here for about 130 years having come from Germany in 1890. How much of the tab am I supposed to pick up?\n
            \n
            Fact of the matter is, the only constant in human history is war. We’re in a (relatively) peaceful era now, and that’s taking into account Ukraine/Russia, Israel/Palestine, and probably another 20 or 30 wars I’m not up to speed on because I’m American and our media doesn’t seem to actually inform us on world events from countries we don’t buy shit from.
            """
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            date: 2023-10-10 19:45:38.0 +02:00
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        +body: """
          Clever.\n
          \n
          I’m going through the sourced materials in the American Holocaust book, (great title, by the way! not divisive at all!), and considering the sources, it’s pretty obvious Stannard has an agenda, he’s a “cultural materialist”, an offshoot of cultural Marxism. But you knew that, you just didn’t think I’d look 😉\n
          \n
          Anyway, with as far as I’ve gotten, I can surmise the sources, the majority of them at least, point to textbooks published by “Berkley; University of California press”. Seems a lot of anti-American sentiment comes out of Berkley. Just to appease my curiosity, I’m going to look deeper into this fellow, who, funny enough, cites his own works as well. That’s pretty douchey
          """
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2349
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
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        +body: """
          Ah, the internet…\n
          \n
          The phrase “That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), **but it’s still very different**” effectively translates to “Even though this happened, this is worse”.\n
          \n
          If you bothered to look at that list, you’ll note the mention of the California Genocide of 1846. Reported casualties between 9,492 and 16,094, with other estimates as high as 120,000. Absolutely fucking horrible and a black mark on American history indeed. However, there are 31 other genocides on that list that are higher in number, with three of those even happening prior to California-\n
          \n
          Dzungam 1755, 480,000-600,000 Taino 1492, 68,000-968,000 Albigensian 1209, 200,000-1,000,000\n
          \n
          I guess it depends on how you define “genocide”, but since Wikipedia is generally using the accepted definition, I feel pretty safe in going with what they say.\n
          \n
          And I did lay out proof, you’re just too caught up in whatever ideology to see it. Feel free to rebut, down vote, cry or whatever makes you feel better, but my point was the world is a horrible place, and terrible things happen to all kinds of groups of people. The “meme” that started all this IS a cherry picked reference to people who were wronged (I’m not disputing they were wronged, but so were… insert any other group of people here). Throughout history, most civilizations are founded on the conquering of another. As horrible as that is, it’s a fact. And after the fact, many of the remaining conqured are treated horribly. Also a fact.\n
          \n
          Lay out some real numbers, cite an authoritative source (sources) and then we can talk. Until then, I hope the best for you and really wish we could get past this bickering bullshit. Life is too short, and trying to pin the sins of one’s father on the current generation isn’t solving shit. Work toward bettering peoples lives without having to exact revenge from people who didn’t have fuck all to do with it.
          """
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
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        +body: "And it’s written by a person, with an agenda and bias just like everyone else. Have a tough time taking anything seriously from someone affiliated with Ward Churchill."
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      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
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        +body: "Citing one book by someone with a clear agenda isn’t a good look either. You picked the fight, feel free to drop it at your leisure."
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697054493 {#2139
          date: 2023-10-11 22:01:33.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41925
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024
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        +body: "I agree with your points, and yes it’s a better perspective, however, that’s not the world we’re living in. There are some who are hell bent on wiping out continents of people due to any number of reasons ranging from beliefs to the exploitation of natural resources merely for financial gain. I really wish we did live in a world where the word “nuclear” invoked thoughts of clean(er), abundant and cheaper energy vs it invoking dread at the prospect of total annihilation."
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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          date: 2023-10-11 13:43:35.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 41306
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2254
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        +body: """
          Oh wait, my fault. I was responding to your comment “**We are still here**”\n
          \n
          Wasn’t sure which part of my anaolgy you weren’t getting. Now we can peacefully argue about that instead.\n
          \n
          **EDITED FOR TYPO
          """
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
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          date: 2023-10-12 21:23:04.0 +02:00
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      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2189
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        +body: """
          You don’t have to apologize to me. If he’s someone who would collaborate with Ward Churchill, he’s got a clear agenda. My source for that was looking him up on Wikipedia, as I had no clue who he was. I’m not going to do the effort of sending you a direct link to the article, so feel free to do it yourself. And grant us all the fact that someone who writes a book has an implied agenda to sell the book.\n
          \n
          And every time you start a post with “Source?”, it’s a bad look.
          """
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          date: 2023-10-12 00:17:28.0 +02:00
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      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383
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        +body: "While I mostly agree, I never said constant war, but where I will disagree in a sense is, the prospect of total annihilation would have been a factor millennia ago had the technology been there. Pick your era, the Romans, the various Chinese dynasties, the English, etc… if they had the means, they would have likely used it, having zero regard for the impact it would have later, mostly due to a poor understanding of the technology. I do believe, at least between “the big three”, meaning the US, Russia and China, nuclear war is an extremely potent deterrent to all out war. It’s the “kids who want to be in the club” that worry me, everyone from NK to Israel. It sucks, but the atomic cat is out of the bag in a world we’re all forced to live in, and the polarization of politics and other bullshit only work to drive that wedge deeper and push us closer to… bad shit."
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works"
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      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037}
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2204
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +body: "Oversimplifing an empire being overthrown. Seems legit."
        +lang: "en"
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          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2281
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        +body: "It’ll be a while before I can read further but I do intend to read all of it. In my biased opinion so far, i reads like a propaganda piece, the words seleceted in some of the passages are used to elicit a response, but maybe I’ll see differently as I continue. I do have a question, when you say “genocide”, are you also including open conflicts? It’s my understanding of the word that it would not, but I want to make sure, especially when numbers are involved, that we’re using the same metrics."
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      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2263
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        +body: """
          People. On a land mass. Wiped out. People. On a land mass. Wiped out.\n
          \n
          Yeah, I guess I see your point.
          """
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          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        -id: 43560
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      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
      16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2034
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        +body: "You too buddy! Would enjoy having rational conversations, even note elsewhere in this thread that I’m taking the time to read American Holocaust, as I told myself “why should I ask someone to do something I’m not willing to do myself?” Granted, being close to 50 years old, it likely won’t change my mind, but I reason that if I do read this book, maybe I can better understand other’s worldview, and maybe, just maybe we can have civil conversations instead of the stupid fucking bickering that’s been going on in a… wait for it… meme thread!"
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          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
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        +body: "Oh, I stand corrected. A link to a Google doc. Should probably submit that to the Wikipedia article I linked as clearly thier information is flawed. You win an internet today."
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      date: 2023-10-09 13:23:41.0 +02:00
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     …2
  }
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  +body: """
    As I’m too stupid and it’s to early for me to do these inline…\n
    \n
    Your 1st point, here’s one, had to scroll about 1/8 down the page for. Granted it doesn’t explicitly say it was “okay”, the point stands:\n
    \n
    > “China/Russia/Europe are largely inhabited by people whose ancestry traces back 1000s of years to the same region. That’s very different from North America, where most natives where killed (either through disease or “policy”).\n
    \n
    > That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), but it’s still very different.”\n
    \n
    As you also wanted to be pointed to a source for genocides on the same or larger scale throughout history, allow me to search Wikipedia for you:\n
    \n
    [en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides)\n
    \n
    As to point 3, who exactly determines who is responsible and who will benefit from this paln to raise up America’s indigenous population to their proper station? Are 1st generation immigrants from Ghana going to be required to pay up? How about Natives who’s ancestry dates back to a tribe that exterminated another tribe? Surely that should also qualify as genocide?\n
    \n
    And as to point 4, we, in the west, as I did point out I was American, are in a (**relatively**) peaceful time, which implies that throughout history it has not been, but I guess I need to spell it out for some people.\n
    \n
    At the end of the day, you’re not looking to be enlightened or to learn anything, your post was directed to completely discount my points, or to “*troll*” I will admit I was getting heated reading some of the off the wall bullshit I was seeing, but superlatives aside, I stand by everything I’ve posted. I apologize if you TRULY didn’t know about other genocides, or if your worldview has jaded you to the point where you don’t initially see posts that clearly illustrate what I said, at least in the abstract, and you took the time to go back and reread them and allow it to sink in.\n
    \n
    Feel free to pick apart this post, too. Nothing is more entertaining in a meme thread than for 2 idiots, myself included, to argue about genocide.🙂
    """
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2204
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2196
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "Explain. How is it a false equivalent? Romans controlled the city / region for over a thousand years and were later conqured, and their land stolen, to use the vernacular of this thread."
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        +body: "So by that logic, the Turks should give Constantinople back to the Romans?"
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          +body: """
            For fucks sake… 1st off, whether or not this qualifies as a “meme”, it doesn’t fit the accepted norm of what most people expect to see when they click on “memes”\n
            \n
            Secondly, and this may sting a little, but peace as we know it is a relatively new thing in world history. I’ve seen a multitude of other comments here proclaiming all those other genocides were okay because they were thousands of years ago. It’s that “in my lifetime” mentality that just fucking grinds my gears. Through thousands of years of history, one genocide is cherry picked and held up as the worst ever, and the citizens who"benefitted" from it are supposed to pick up the tab? My ancestors weren’t Spanish or English, and my family has been here for about 130 years having come from Germany in 1890. How much of the tab am I supposed to pick up?\n
            \n
            Fact of the matter is, the only constant in human history is war. We’re in a (relatively) peaceful era now, and that’s taking into account Ukraine/Russia, Israel/Palestine, and probably another 20 or 30 wars I’m not up to speed on because I’m American and our media doesn’t seem to actually inform us on world events from countries we don’t buy shit from.
            """
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          Clever.\n
          \n
          I’m going through the sourced materials in the American Holocaust book, (great title, by the way! not divisive at all!), and considering the sources, it’s pretty obvious Stannard has an agenda, he’s a “cultural materialist”, an offshoot of cultural Marxism. But you knew that, you just didn’t think I’d look 😉\n
          \n
          Anyway, with as far as I’ve gotten, I can surmise the sources, the majority of them at least, point to textbooks published by “Berkley; University of California press”. Seems a lot of anti-American sentiment comes out of Berkley. Just to appease my curiosity, I’m going to look deeper into this fellow, who, funny enough, cites his own works as well. That’s pretty douchey
          """
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        +body: """
          Ah, the internet…\n
          \n
          The phrase “That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), **but it’s still very different**” effectively translates to “Even though this happened, this is worse”.\n
          \n
          If you bothered to look at that list, you’ll note the mention of the California Genocide of 1846. Reported casualties between 9,492 and 16,094, with other estimates as high as 120,000. Absolutely fucking horrible and a black mark on American history indeed. However, there are 31 other genocides on that list that are higher in number, with three of those even happening prior to California-\n
          \n
          Dzungam 1755, 480,000-600,000 Taino 1492, 68,000-968,000 Albigensian 1209, 200,000-1,000,000\n
          \n
          I guess it depends on how you define “genocide”, but since Wikipedia is generally using the accepted definition, I feel pretty safe in going with what they say.\n
          \n
          And I did lay out proof, you’re just too caught up in whatever ideology to see it. Feel free to rebut, down vote, cry or whatever makes you feel better, but my point was the world is a horrible place, and terrible things happen to all kinds of groups of people. The “meme” that started all this IS a cherry picked reference to people who were wronged (I’m not disputing they were wronged, but so were… insert any other group of people here). Throughout history, most civilizations are founded on the conquering of another. As horrible as that is, it’s a fact. And after the fact, many of the remaining conqured are treated horribly. Also a fact.\n
          \n
          Lay out some real numbers, cite an authoritative source (sources) and then we can talk. Until then, I hope the best for you and really wish we could get past this bickering bullshit. Life is too short, and trying to pin the sins of one’s father on the current generation isn’t solving shit. Work toward bettering peoples lives without having to exact revenge from people who didn’t have fuck all to do with it.
          """
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
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        +body: "And it’s written by a person, with an agenda and bias just like everyone else. Have a tough time taking anything seriously from someone affiliated with Ward Churchill."
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      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
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        +body: "Citing one book by someone with a clear agenda isn’t a good look either. You picked the fight, feel free to drop it at your leisure."
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
        ]
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        -id: 41925
        -bodyTs: "'agenda':9 'book':3 'cite':1 'clear':8 'drop':23 'either':15 'feel':20 'fight':19 'free':21 'good':13 'isn':10 'leisur':27 'look':14 'one':2 'pick':17 'someon':5"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-10-11 22:01:33.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41925
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "I agree with your points, and yes it’s a better perspective, however, that’s not the world we’re living in. There are some who are hell bent on wiping out continents of people due to any number of reasons ranging from beliefs to the exploitation of natural resources merely for financial gain. I really wish we did live in a world where the word “nuclear” invoked thoughts of clean(er), abundant and cheaper energy vs it invoking dread at the prospect of total annihilation."
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          date: 2023-10-11 13:43:35.0 +02:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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          date: 2023-10-11 13:43:35.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41306
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2254
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2250 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +body: """
          Oh wait, my fault. I was responding to your comment “**We are still here**”\n
          \n
          Wasn’t sure which part of my anaolgy you weren’t getting. Now we can peacefully argue about that instead.\n
          \n
          **EDITED FOR TYPO
          """
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          date: 2023-10-12 20:52:28.0 +02:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        -id: 43749
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          date: 2023-10-12 21:23:04.0 +02:00
        }
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          date: 2023-10-12 20:52:28.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 43749
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2189
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: """
          You don’t have to apologize to me. If he’s someone who would collaborate with Ward Churchill, he’s got a clear agenda. My source for that was looking him up on Wikipedia, as I had no clue who he was. I’m not going to do the effort of sending you a direct link to the article, so feel free to do it yourself. And grant us all the fact that someone who writes a book has an implied agenda to sell the book.\n
          \n
          And every time you start a post with “Source?”, it’s a bad look.
          """
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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        -id: 42135
        -bodyTs: "'agenda':24,82 'apolog':6 'articl':59 'bad':99 'book':78,86 'churchil':18 'clear':23 'clue':39 'collabor':15 'direct':55 'effort':50 'everi':88 'fact':72 'feel':61 'free':62 'go':46 'got':21 'grant':68 'impli':81 'link':56 'look':30,100 'm':44 'post':93 'sell':84 'send':52 'someon':12,74 'sourc':26,95 'start':91 'time':89 'us':69 'ward':17 'wikipedia':34 'would':14 'write':76"
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          date: 2023-10-12 00:17:28.0 +02:00
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      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "While I mostly agree, I never said constant war, but where I will disagree in a sense is, the prospect of total annihilation would have been a factor millennia ago had the technology been there. Pick your era, the Romans, the various Chinese dynasties, the English, etc… if they had the means, they would have likely used it, having zero regard for the impact it would have later, mostly due to a poor understanding of the technology. I do believe, at least between “the big three”, meaning the US, Russia and China, nuclear war is an extremely potent deterrent to all out war. It’s the “kids who want to be in the club” that worry me, everyone from NK to Israel. It sucks, but the atomic cat is out of the bag in a world we’re all forced to live in, and the polarization of politics and other bullshit only work to drive that wedge deeper and push us closer to… bad shit."
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          "@ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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          date: 2023-10-10 22:52:49.0 +02:00
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      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: """
          As I’m too stupid and it’s to early for me to do these inline…\n
          \n
          Your 1st point, here’s one, had to scroll about 1/8 down the page for. Granted it doesn’t explicitly say it was “okay”, the point stands:\n
          \n
          > “China/Russia/Europe are largely inhabited by people whose ancestry traces back 1000s of years to the same region. That’s very different from North America, where most natives where killed (either through disease or “policy”).\n
          \n
          > That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), but it’s still very different.”\n
          \n
          As you also wanted to be pointed to a source for genocides on the same or larger scale throughout history, allow me to search Wikipedia for you:\n
          \n
          [en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides)\n
          \n
          As to point 3, who exactly determines who is responsible and who will benefit from this paln to raise up America’s indigenous population to their proper station? Are 1st generation immigrants from Ghana going to be required to pay up? How about Natives who’s ancestry dates back to a tribe that exterminated another tribe? Surely that should also qualify as genocide?\n
          \n
          And as to point 4, we, in the west, as I did point out I was American, are in a (**relatively**) peaceful time, which implies that throughout history it has not been, but I guess I need to spell it out for some people.\n
          \n
          At the end of the day, you’re not looking to be enlightened or to learn anything, your post was directed to completely discount my points, or to “*troll*” I will admit I was getting heated reading some of the off the wall bullshit I was seeing, but superlatives aside, I stand by everything I’ve posted. I apologize if you TRULY didn’t know about other genocides, or if your worldview has jaded you to the point where you don’t initially see posts that clearly illustrate what I said, at least in the abstract, and you took the time to go back and reread them and allow it to sink in.\n
          \n
          Feel free to pick apart this post, too. Nothing is more entertaining in a meme thread than for 2 idiots, myself included, to argue about genocide.🙂
          """
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          date: 2023-10-11 14:10:25.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 41323
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2204}
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2281
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "It’ll be a while before I can read further but I do intend to read all of it. In my biased opinion so far, i reads like a propaganda piece, the words seleceted in some of the passages are used to elicit a response, but maybe I’ll see differently as I continue. I do have a question, when you say “genocide”, are you also including open conflicts? It’s my understanding of the word that it would not, but I want to make sure, especially when numbers are involved, that we’re using the same metrics."
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
        ]
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        -id: 43093
        -bodyTs: "'also':66 'bias':22 'conflict':69 'continu':54 'differ':51 'elicit':43 'especi':87 'far':25 'genocid':63 'includ':67 'intend':14 'involv':91 'like':28 'll':2,49 'make':85 'mayb':47 'metric':98 'number':89 'open':68 'opinion':23 'passag':39 'piec':31 'propaganda':30 'question':59 're':94 'read':9,16,27 'respons':45 'say':62 'see':50 'selecet':34 'sure':86 'understand':73 'use':41,95 'want':83 'word':33,76 'would':79"
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          date: 2023-10-12 15:46:08.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 43093
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      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2263
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +body: """
          People. On a land mass. Wiped out. People. On a land mass. Wiped out.\n
          \n
          Yeah, I guess I see your point.
          """
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          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
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        -id: 43560
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          date: 2023-10-12 19:25:03.0 +02:00
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      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
      16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2034
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        +body: "You too buddy! Would enjoy having rational conversations, even note elsewhere in this thread that I’m taking the time to read American Holocaust, as I told myself “why should I ask someone to do something I’m not willing to do myself?” Granted, being close to 50 years old, it likely won’t change my mind, but I reason that if I do read this book, maybe I can better understand other’s worldview, and maybe, just maybe we can have civil conversations instead of the stupid fucking bickering that’s been going on in a… wait for it… meme thread!"
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
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          date: 2023-10-12 22:21:54.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 43916
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "Oh, I stand corrected. A link to a Google doc. Should probably submit that to the Wikipedia article I linked as clearly thier information is flawed. You win an internet today."
        +lang: "en"
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      date: 2023-10-09 13:23:41.0 +02:00
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     …2
  }
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  +body: "Oversimplifing an empire being overthrown. Seems legit."
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2204
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    +slug: "History"
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2196
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "Explain. How is it a false equivalent? Romans controlled the city / region for over a thousand years and were later conqured, and their land stolen, to use the vernacular of this thread."
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2324
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        +body: "So by that logic, the Turks should give Constantinople back to the Romans?"
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      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2307
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          +body: """
            For fucks sake… 1st off, whether or not this qualifies as a “meme”, it doesn’t fit the accepted norm of what most people expect to see when they click on “memes”\n
            \n
            Secondly, and this may sting a little, but peace as we know it is a relatively new thing in world history. I’ve seen a multitude of other comments here proclaiming all those other genocides were okay because they were thousands of years ago. It’s that “in my lifetime” mentality that just fucking grinds my gears. Through thousands of years of history, one genocide is cherry picked and held up as the worst ever, and the citizens who"benefitted" from it are supposed to pick up the tab? My ancestors weren’t Spanish or English, and my family has been here for about 130 years having come from Germany in 1890. How much of the tab am I supposed to pick up?\n
            \n
            Fact of the matter is, the only constant in human history is war. We’re in a (relatively) peaceful era now, and that’s taking into account Ukraine/Russia, Israel/Palestine, and probably another 20 or 30 wars I’m not up to speed on because I’m American and our media doesn’t seem to actually inform us on world events from countries we don’t buy shit from.
            """
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        +body: """
          Clever.\n
          \n
          I’m going through the sourced materials in the American Holocaust book, (great title, by the way! not divisive at all!), and considering the sources, it’s pretty obvious Stannard has an agenda, he’s a “cultural materialist”, an offshoot of cultural Marxism. But you knew that, you just didn’t think I’d look 😉\n
          \n
          Anyway, with as far as I’ve gotten, I can surmise the sources, the majority of them at least, point to textbooks published by “Berkley; University of California press”. Seems a lot of anti-American sentiment comes out of Berkley. Just to appease my curiosity, I’m going to look deeper into this fellow, who, funny enough, cites his own works as well. That’s pretty douchey
          """
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2349
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        +body: """
          Ah, the internet…\n
          \n
          The phrase “That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), **but it’s still very different**” effectively translates to “Even though this happened, this is worse”.\n
          \n
          If you bothered to look at that list, you’ll note the mention of the California Genocide of 1846. Reported casualties between 9,492 and 16,094, with other estimates as high as 120,000. Absolutely fucking horrible and a black mark on American history indeed. However, there are 31 other genocides on that list that are higher in number, with three of those even happening prior to California-\n
          \n
          Dzungam 1755, 480,000-600,000 Taino 1492, 68,000-968,000 Albigensian 1209, 200,000-1,000,000\n
          \n
          I guess it depends on how you define “genocide”, but since Wikipedia is generally using the accepted definition, I feel pretty safe in going with what they say.\n
          \n
          And I did lay out proof, you’re just too caught up in whatever ideology to see it. Feel free to rebut, down vote, cry or whatever makes you feel better, but my point was the world is a horrible place, and terrible things happen to all kinds of groups of people. The “meme” that started all this IS a cherry picked reference to people who were wronged (I’m not disputing they were wronged, but so were… insert any other group of people here). Throughout history, most civilizations are founded on the conquering of another. As horrible as that is, it’s a fact. And after the fact, many of the remaining conqured are treated horribly. Also a fact.\n
          \n
          Lay out some real numbers, cite an authoritative source (sources) and then we can talk. Until then, I hope the best for you and really wish we could get past this bickering bullshit. Life is too short, and trying to pin the sins of one’s father on the current generation isn’t solving shit. Work toward bettering peoples lives without having to exact revenge from people who didn’t have fuck all to do with it.
          """
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
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        +body: "And it’s written by a person, with an agenda and bias just like everyone else. Have a tough time taking anything seriously from someone affiliated with Ward Churchill."
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      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2224 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "Citing one book by someone with a clear agenda isn’t a good look either. You picked the fight, feel free to drop it at your leisure."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-10-11 22:01:33.0 +02:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
        ]
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        -id: 41925
        -bodyTs: "'agenda':9 'book':3 'cite':1 'clear':8 'drop':23 'either':15 'feel':20 'fight':19 'free':21 'good':13 'isn':10 'leisur':27 'look':14 'one':2 'pick':17 'someon':5"
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          date: 2023-10-11 22:01:33.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41925
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "I agree with your points, and yes it’s a better perspective, however, that’s not the world we’re living in. There are some who are hell bent on wiping out continents of people due to any number of reasons ranging from beliefs to the exploitation of natural resources merely for financial gain. I really wish we did live in a world where the word “nuclear” invoked thoughts of clean(er), abundant and cheaper energy vs it invoking dread at the prospect of total annihilation."
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          date: 2023-10-11 13:43:35.0 +02:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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          date: 2023-10-11 13:43:35.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41306
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2254
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2250 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +body: """
          Oh wait, my fault. I was responding to your comment “**We are still here**”\n
          \n
          Wasn’t sure which part of my anaolgy you weren’t getting. Now we can peacefully argue about that instead.\n
          \n
          **EDITED FOR TYPO
          """
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          date: 2023-10-12 20:52:28.0 +02:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/comment/4361340"
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          date: 2023-10-12 21:23:04.0 +02:00
        }
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          date: 2023-10-12 20:52:28.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 43749
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2189
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: """
          You don’t have to apologize to me. If he’s someone who would collaborate with Ward Churchill, he’s got a clear agenda. My source for that was looking him up on Wikipedia, as I had no clue who he was. I’m not going to do the effort of sending you a direct link to the article, so feel free to do it yourself. And grant us all the fact that someone who writes a book has an implied agenda to sell the book.\n
          \n
          And every time you start a post with “Source?”, it’s a bad look.
          """
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          date: 2023-10-12 00:17:28.0 +02:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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        -id: 42135
        -bodyTs: "'agenda':24,82 'apolog':6 'articl':59 'bad':99 'book':78,86 'churchil':18 'clear':23 'clue':39 'collabor':15 'direct':55 'effort':50 'everi':88 'fact':72 'feel':61 'free':62 'go':46 'got':21 'grant':68 'impli':81 'link':56 'look':30,100 'm':44 'post':93 'sell':84 'send':52 'someon':12,74 'sourc':26,95 'start':91 'time':89 'us':69 'ward':17 'wikipedia':34 'would':14 'write':76"
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          date: 2023-10-12 00:17:28.0 +02:00
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      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "While I mostly agree, I never said constant war, but where I will disagree in a sense is, the prospect of total annihilation would have been a factor millennia ago had the technology been there. Pick your era, the Romans, the various Chinese dynasties, the English, etc… if they had the means, they would have likely used it, having zero regard for the impact it would have later, mostly due to a poor understanding of the technology. I do believe, at least between “the big three”, meaning the US, Russia and China, nuclear war is an extremely potent deterrent to all out war. It’s the “kids who want to be in the club” that worry me, everyone from NK to Israel. It sucks, but the atomic cat is out of the bag in a world we’re all forced to live in, and the polarization of politics and other bullshit only work to drive that wedge deeper and push us closer to… bad shit."
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          "@ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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          date: 2023-10-10 22:52:49.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 40641
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: """
          As I’m too stupid and it’s to early for me to do these inline…\n
          \n
          Your 1st point, here’s one, had to scroll about 1/8 down the page for. Granted it doesn’t explicitly say it was “okay”, the point stands:\n
          \n
          > “China/Russia/Europe are largely inhabited by people whose ancestry traces back 1000s of years to the same region. That’s very different from North America, where most natives where killed (either through disease or “policy”).\n
          \n
          > That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), but it’s still very different.”\n
          \n
          As you also wanted to be pointed to a source for genocides on the same or larger scale throughout history, allow me to search Wikipedia for you:\n
          \n
          [en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides)\n
          \n
          As to point 3, who exactly determines who is responsible and who will benefit from this paln to raise up America’s indigenous population to their proper station? Are 1st generation immigrants from Ghana going to be required to pay up? How about Natives who’s ancestry dates back to a tribe that exterminated another tribe? Surely that should also qualify as genocide?\n
          \n
          And as to point 4, we, in the west, as I did point out I was American, are in a (**relatively**) peaceful time, which implies that throughout history it has not been, but I guess I need to spell it out for some people.\n
          \n
          At the end of the day, you’re not looking to be enlightened or to learn anything, your post was directed to completely discount my points, or to “*troll*” I will admit I was getting heated reading some of the off the wall bullshit I was seeing, but superlatives aside, I stand by everything I’ve posted. I apologize if you TRULY didn’t know about other genocides, or if your worldview has jaded you to the point where you don’t initially see posts that clearly illustrate what I said, at least in the abstract, and you took the time to go back and reread them and allow it to sink in.\n
          \n
          Feel free to pick apart this post, too. Nothing is more entertaining in a meme thread than for 2 idiots, myself included, to argue about genocide.🙂
          """
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          date: 2023-10-11 14:10:25.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 41323
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2204}
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2281
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "It’ll be a while before I can read further but I do intend to read all of it. In my biased opinion so far, i reads like a propaganda piece, the words seleceted in some of the passages are used to elicit a response, but maybe I’ll see differently as I continue. I do have a question, when you say “genocide”, are you also including open conflicts? It’s my understanding of the word that it would not, but I want to make sure, especially when numbers are involved, that we’re using the same metrics."
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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        -id: 43093
        -bodyTs: "'also':66 'bias':22 'conflict':69 'continu':54 'differ':51 'elicit':43 'especi':87 'far':25 'genocid':63 'includ':67 'intend':14 'involv':91 'like':28 'll':2,49 'make':85 'mayb':47 'metric':98 'number':89 'open':68 'opinion':23 'passag':39 'piec':31 'propaganda':30 'question':59 're':94 'read':9,16,27 'respons':45 'say':62 'see':50 'selecet':34 'sure':86 'understand':73 'use':41,95 'want':83 'word':33,76 'would':79"
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          date: 2023-10-12 15:46:08.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 43093
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      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2263
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +body: """
          People. On a land mass. Wiped out. People. On a land mass. Wiped out.\n
          \n
          Yeah, I guess I see your point.
          """
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          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
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        -id: 43560
        -bodyTs: "'guess':17 'land':4,11 'mass':5,12 'peopl':1,8 'point':21 'see':19 'wipe':6,13 'yeah':15"
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          date: 2023-10-12 19:25:03.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 43560
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      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
      16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2034
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "You too buddy! Would enjoy having rational conversations, even note elsewhere in this thread that I’m taking the time to read American Holocaust, as I told myself “why should I ask someone to do something I’m not willing to do myself?” Granted, being close to 50 years old, it likely won’t change my mind, but I reason that if I do read this book, maybe I can better understand other’s worldview, and maybe, just maybe we can have civil conversations instead of the stupid fucking bickering that’s been going on in a… wait for it… meme thread!"
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          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        +"title": 43916
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2045 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "Oh, I stand corrected. A link to a Google doc. Should probably submit that to the Wikipedia article I linked as clearly thier information is flawed. You win an internet today."
        +lang: "en"
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      date: 2023-10-09 13:23:41.0 +02:00
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     …2
  }
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  +body: "Oversimplifing an empire being overthrown. Seems legit."
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    "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2204
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    +slug: "History"
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2196
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "Explain. How is it a false equivalent? Romans controlled the city / region for over a thousand years and were later conqured, and their land stolen, to use the vernacular of this thread."
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2324
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        +body: "So by that logic, the Turks should give Constantinople back to the Romans?"
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      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2307
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          +body: """
            For fucks sake… 1st off, whether or not this qualifies as a “meme”, it doesn’t fit the accepted norm of what most people expect to see when they click on “memes”\n
            \n
            Secondly, and this may sting a little, but peace as we know it is a relatively new thing in world history. I’ve seen a multitude of other comments here proclaiming all those other genocides were okay because they were thousands of years ago. It’s that “in my lifetime” mentality that just fucking grinds my gears. Through thousands of years of history, one genocide is cherry picked and held up as the worst ever, and the citizens who"benefitted" from it are supposed to pick up the tab? My ancestors weren’t Spanish or English, and my family has been here for about 130 years having come from Germany in 1890. How much of the tab am I supposed to pick up?\n
            \n
            Fact of the matter is, the only constant in human history is war. We’re in a (relatively) peaceful era now, and that’s taking into account Ukraine/Russia, Israel/Palestine, and probably another 20 or 30 wars I’m not up to speed on because I’m American and our media doesn’t seem to actually inform us on world events from countries we don’t buy shit from.
            """
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        +body: """
          Clever.\n
          \n
          I’m going through the sourced materials in the American Holocaust book, (great title, by the way! not divisive at all!), and considering the sources, it’s pretty obvious Stannard has an agenda, he’s a “cultural materialist”, an offshoot of cultural Marxism. But you knew that, you just didn’t think I’d look 😉\n
          \n
          Anyway, with as far as I’ve gotten, I can surmise the sources, the majority of them at least, point to textbooks published by “Berkley; University of California press”. Seems a lot of anti-American sentiment comes out of Berkley. Just to appease my curiosity, I’m going to look deeper into this fellow, who, funny enough, cites his own works as well. That’s pretty douchey
          """
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2349
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        +body: """
          Ah, the internet…\n
          \n
          The phrase “That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), **but it’s still very different**” effectively translates to “Even though this happened, this is worse”.\n
          \n
          If you bothered to look at that list, you’ll note the mention of the California Genocide of 1846. Reported casualties between 9,492 and 16,094, with other estimates as high as 120,000. Absolutely fucking horrible and a black mark on American history indeed. However, there are 31 other genocides on that list that are higher in number, with three of those even happening prior to California-\n
          \n
          Dzungam 1755, 480,000-600,000 Taino 1492, 68,000-968,000 Albigensian 1209, 200,000-1,000,000\n
          \n
          I guess it depends on how you define “genocide”, but since Wikipedia is generally using the accepted definition, I feel pretty safe in going with what they say.\n
          \n
          And I did lay out proof, you’re just too caught up in whatever ideology to see it. Feel free to rebut, down vote, cry or whatever makes you feel better, but my point was the world is a horrible place, and terrible things happen to all kinds of groups of people. The “meme” that started all this IS a cherry picked reference to people who were wronged (I’m not disputing they were wronged, but so were… insert any other group of people here). Throughout history, most civilizations are founded on the conquering of another. As horrible as that is, it’s a fact. And after the fact, many of the remaining conqured are treated horribly. Also a fact.\n
          \n
          Lay out some real numbers, cite an authoritative source (sources) and then we can talk. Until then, I hope the best for you and really wish we could get past this bickering bullshit. Life is too short, and trying to pin the sins of one’s father on the current generation isn’t solving shit. Work toward bettering peoples lives without having to exact revenge from people who didn’t have fuck all to do with it.
          """
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
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        +body: "And it’s written by a person, with an agenda and bias just like everyone else. Have a tough time taking anything seriously from someone affiliated with Ward Churchill."
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/comment/4326785"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697053568 {#2122
          date: 2023-10-11 21:46:08.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41891
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2224 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "Citing one book by someone with a clear agenda isn’t a good look either. You picked the fight, feel free to drop it at your leisure."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-10-11 22:01:33.0 +02:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
        ]
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        -id: 41925
        -bodyTs: "'agenda':9 'book':3 'cite':1 'clear':8 'drop':23 'either':15 'feel':20 'fight':19 'free':21 'good':13 'isn':10 'leisur':27 'look':14 'one':2 'pick':17 'someon':5"
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          date: 2023-10-11 22:01:33.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41925
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "I agree with your points, and yes it’s a better perspective, however, that’s not the world we’re living in. There are some who are hell bent on wiping out continents of people due to any number of reasons ranging from beliefs to the exploitation of natural resources merely for financial gain. I really wish we did live in a world where the word “nuclear” invoked thoughts of clean(er), abundant and cheaper energy vs it invoking dread at the prospect of total annihilation."
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          date: 2023-10-11 13:43:35.0 +02:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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          date: 2023-10-11 13:43:35.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41306
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2254
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +body: """
          Oh wait, my fault. I was responding to your comment “**We are still here**”\n
          \n
          Wasn’t sure which part of my anaolgy you weren’t getting. Now we can peacefully argue about that instead.\n
          \n
          **EDITED FOR TYPO
          """
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          date: 2023-10-12 20:52:28.0 +02:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/comment/4361340"
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          date: 2023-10-12 21:23:04.0 +02:00
        }
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          date: 2023-10-12 20:52:28.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 43749
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2189
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        +body: """
          You don’t have to apologize to me. If he’s someone who would collaborate with Ward Churchill, he’s got a clear agenda. My source for that was looking him up on Wikipedia, as I had no clue who he was. I’m not going to do the effort of sending you a direct link to the article, so feel free to do it yourself. And grant us all the fact that someone who writes a book has an implied agenda to sell the book.\n
          \n
          And every time you start a post with “Source?”, it’s a bad look.
          """
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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        -id: 42135
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        +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/comment/4331392"
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          date: 2023-10-12 00:17:28.0 +02:00
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      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "While I mostly agree, I never said constant war, but where I will disagree in a sense is, the prospect of total annihilation would have been a factor millennia ago had the technology been there. Pick your era, the Romans, the various Chinese dynasties, the English, etc… if they had the means, they would have likely used it, having zero regard for the impact it would have later, mostly due to a poor understanding of the technology. I do believe, at least between “the big three”, meaning the US, Russia and China, nuclear war is an extremely potent deterrent to all out war. It’s the “kids who want to be in the club” that worry me, everyone from NK to Israel. It sucks, but the atomic cat is out of the bag in a world we’re all forced to live in, and the polarization of politics and other bullshit only work to drive that wedge deeper and push us closer to… bad shit."
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          "@ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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          date: 2023-10-10 22:52:49.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 40641
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: """
          As I’m too stupid and it’s to early for me to do these inline…\n
          \n
          Your 1st point, here’s one, had to scroll about 1/8 down the page for. Granted it doesn’t explicitly say it was “okay”, the point stands:\n
          \n
          > “China/Russia/Europe are largely inhabited by people whose ancestry traces back 1000s of years to the same region. That’s very different from North America, where most natives where killed (either through disease or “policy”).\n
          \n
          > That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), but it’s still very different.”\n
          \n
          As you also wanted to be pointed to a source for genocides on the same or larger scale throughout history, allow me to search Wikipedia for you:\n
          \n
          [en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides)\n
          \n
          As to point 3, who exactly determines who is responsible and who will benefit from this paln to raise up America’s indigenous population to their proper station? Are 1st generation immigrants from Ghana going to be required to pay up? How about Natives who’s ancestry dates back to a tribe that exterminated another tribe? Surely that should also qualify as genocide?\n
          \n
          And as to point 4, we, in the west, as I did point out I was American, are in a (**relatively**) peaceful time, which implies that throughout history it has not been, but I guess I need to spell it out for some people.\n
          \n
          At the end of the day, you’re not looking to be enlightened or to learn anything, your post was directed to completely discount my points, or to “*troll*” I will admit I was getting heated reading some of the off the wall bullshit I was seeing, but superlatives aside, I stand by everything I’ve posted. I apologize if you TRULY didn’t know about other genocides, or if your worldview has jaded you to the point where you don’t initially see posts that clearly illustrate what I said, at least in the abstract, and you took the time to go back and reread them and allow it to sink in.\n
          \n
          Feel free to pick apart this post, too. Nothing is more entertaining in a meme thread than for 2 idiots, myself included, to argue about genocide.🙂
          """
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          date: 2023-10-11 14:10:25.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41323
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2204}
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2281
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "It’ll be a while before I can read further but I do intend to read all of it. In my biased opinion so far, i reads like a propaganda piece, the words seleceted in some of the passages are used to elicit a response, but maybe I’ll see differently as I continue. I do have a question, when you say “genocide”, are you also including open conflicts? It’s my understanding of the word that it would not, but I want to make sure, especially when numbers are involved, that we’re using the same metrics."
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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        -id: 43093
        -bodyTs: "'also':66 'bias':22 'conflict':69 'continu':54 'differ':51 'elicit':43 'especi':87 'far':25 'genocid':63 'includ':67 'intend':14 'involv':91 'like':28 'll':2,49 'make':85 'mayb':47 'metric':98 'number':89 'open':68 'opinion':23 'passag':39 'piec':31 'propaganda':30 'question':59 're':94 'read':9,16,27 'respons':45 'say':62 'see':50 'selecet':34 'sure':86 'understand':73 'use':41,95 'want':83 'word':33,76 'would':79"
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          date: 2023-10-12 15:46:08.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 43093
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      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2263
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        +body: """
          People. On a land mass. Wiped out. People. On a land mass. Wiped out.\n
          \n
          Yeah, I guess I see your point.
          """
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          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
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        -id: 43560
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          date: 2023-10-12 19:25:03.0 +02:00
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      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
      16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2034
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        +body: "You too buddy! Would enjoy having rational conversations, even note elsewhere in this thread that I’m taking the time to read American Holocaust, as I told myself “why should I ask someone to do something I’m not willing to do myself?” Granted, being close to 50 years old, it likely won’t change my mind, but I reason that if I do read this book, maybe I can better understand other’s worldview, and maybe, just maybe we can have civil conversations instead of the stupid fucking bickering that’s been going on in a… wait for it… meme thread!"
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
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        +"title": 43916
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "Oh, I stand corrected. A link to a Google doc. Should probably submit that to the Wikipedia article I linked as clearly thier information is flawed. You win an internet today."
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      date: 2023-10-09 13:23:41.0 +02:00
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     …2
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  +body: "Oversimplifing an empire being overthrown. Seems legit."
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2281
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2196
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "Explain. How is it a false equivalent? Romans controlled the city / region for over a thousand years and were later conqured, and their land stolen, to use the vernacular of this thread."
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2324
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        +body: "So by that logic, the Turks should give Constantinople back to the Romans?"
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      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2307
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          +body: """
            For fucks sake… 1st off, whether or not this qualifies as a “meme”, it doesn’t fit the accepted norm of what most people expect to see when they click on “memes”\n
            \n
            Secondly, and this may sting a little, but peace as we know it is a relatively new thing in world history. I’ve seen a multitude of other comments here proclaiming all those other genocides were okay because they were thousands of years ago. It’s that “in my lifetime” mentality that just fucking grinds my gears. Through thousands of years of history, one genocide is cherry picked and held up as the worst ever, and the citizens who"benefitted" from it are supposed to pick up the tab? My ancestors weren’t Spanish or English, and my family has been here for about 130 years having come from Germany in 1890. How much of the tab am I supposed to pick up?\n
            \n
            Fact of the matter is, the only constant in human history is war. We’re in a (relatively) peaceful era now, and that’s taking into account Ukraine/Russia, Israel/Palestine, and probably another 20 or 30 wars I’m not up to speed on because I’m American and our media doesn’t seem to actually inform us on world events from countries we don’t buy shit from.
            """
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        +body: """
          Clever.\n
          \n
          I’m going through the sourced materials in the American Holocaust book, (great title, by the way! not divisive at all!), and considering the sources, it’s pretty obvious Stannard has an agenda, he’s a “cultural materialist”, an offshoot of cultural Marxism. But you knew that, you just didn’t think I’d look 😉\n
          \n
          Anyway, with as far as I’ve gotten, I can surmise the sources, the majority of them at least, point to textbooks published by “Berkley; University of California press”. Seems a lot of anti-American sentiment comes out of Berkley. Just to appease my curiosity, I’m going to look deeper into this fellow, who, funny enough, cites his own works as well. That’s pretty douchey
          """
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2349
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: """
          Ah, the internet…\n
          \n
          The phrase “That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), **but it’s still very different**” effectively translates to “Even though this happened, this is worse”.\n
          \n
          If you bothered to look at that list, you’ll note the mention of the California Genocide of 1846. Reported casualties between 9,492 and 16,094, with other estimates as high as 120,000. Absolutely fucking horrible and a black mark on American history indeed. However, there are 31 other genocides on that list that are higher in number, with three of those even happening prior to California-\n
          \n
          Dzungam 1755, 480,000-600,000 Taino 1492, 68,000-968,000 Albigensian 1209, 200,000-1,000,000\n
          \n
          I guess it depends on how you define “genocide”, but since Wikipedia is generally using the accepted definition, I feel pretty safe in going with what they say.\n
          \n
          And I did lay out proof, you’re just too caught up in whatever ideology to see it. Feel free to rebut, down vote, cry or whatever makes you feel better, but my point was the world is a horrible place, and terrible things happen to all kinds of groups of people. The “meme” that started all this IS a cherry picked reference to people who were wronged (I’m not disputing they were wronged, but so were… insert any other group of people here). Throughout history, most civilizations are founded on the conquering of another. As horrible as that is, it’s a fact. And after the fact, many of the remaining conqured are treated horribly. Also a fact.\n
          \n
          Lay out some real numbers, cite an authoritative source (sources) and then we can talk. Until then, I hope the best for you and really wish we could get past this bickering bullshit. Life is too short, and trying to pin the sins of one’s father on the current generation isn’t solving shit. Work toward bettering peoples lives without having to exact revenge from people who didn’t have fuck all to do with it.
          """
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
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        +body: "And it’s written by a person, with an agenda and bias just like everyone else. Have a tough time taking anything seriously from someone affiliated with Ward Churchill."
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        -id: 41891
        -bodyTs: "'affili':26 'agenda':10 'anyth':22 'bias':12 'churchil':29 'els':16 'everyon':15 'like':14 'person':7 'serious':23 'someon':25 'take':21 'time':20 'tough':19 'ward':28 'written':4"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-10-11 21:46:08.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41891
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2224 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "Citing one book by someone with a clear agenda isn’t a good look either. You picked the fight, feel free to drop it at your leisure."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-10-11 22:01:33.0 +02:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
        ]
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        -id: 41925
        -bodyTs: "'agenda':9 'book':3 'cite':1 'clear':8 'drop':23 'either':15 'feel':20 'fight':19 'free':21 'good':13 'isn':10 'leisur':27 'look':14 'one':2 'pick':17 'someon':5"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697054493 {#2139
          date: 2023-10-11 22:01:33.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41925
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "I agree with your points, and yes it’s a better perspective, however, that’s not the world we’re living in. There are some who are hell bent on wiping out continents of people due to any number of reasons ranging from beliefs to the exploitation of natural resources merely for financial gain. I really wish we did live in a world where the word “nuclear” invoked thoughts of clean(er), abundant and cheaper energy vs it invoking dread at the prospect of total annihilation."
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          date: 2023-10-11 13:43:35.0 +02:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-10-11 13:43:35.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41306
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2254
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2250 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +body: """
          Oh wait, my fault. I was responding to your comment “**We are still here**”\n
          \n
          Wasn’t sure which part of my anaolgy you weren’t getting. Now we can peacefully argue about that instead.\n
          \n
          **EDITED FOR TYPO
          """
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          date: 2023-10-12 20:52:28.0 +02:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/comment/4361340"
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          date: 2023-10-12 21:23:04.0 +02:00
        }
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          date: 2023-10-12 20:52:28.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 43749
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2189
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: """
          You don’t have to apologize to me. If he’s someone who would collaborate with Ward Churchill, he’s got a clear agenda. My source for that was looking him up on Wikipedia, as I had no clue who he was. I’m not going to do the effort of sending you a direct link to the article, so feel free to do it yourself. And grant us all the fact that someone who writes a book has an implied agenda to sell the book.\n
          \n
          And every time you start a post with “Source?”, it’s a bad look.
          """
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          date: 2023-10-12 00:17:28.0 +02:00
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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        -id: 42135
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        +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/comment/4331392"
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          date: 2023-10-12 00:17:28.0 +02:00
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      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "While I mostly agree, I never said constant war, but where I will disagree in a sense is, the prospect of total annihilation would have been a factor millennia ago had the technology been there. Pick your era, the Romans, the various Chinese dynasties, the English, etc… if they had the means, they would have likely used it, having zero regard for the impact it would have later, mostly due to a poor understanding of the technology. I do believe, at least between “the big three”, meaning the US, Russia and China, nuclear war is an extremely potent deterrent to all out war. It’s the “kids who want to be in the club” that worry me, everyone from NK to Israel. It sucks, but the atomic cat is out of the bag in a world we’re all forced to live in, and the polarization of politics and other bullshit only work to drive that wedge deeper and push us closer to… bad shit."
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          date: 2023-10-10 22:52:49.0 +02:00
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      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: """
          As I’m too stupid and it’s to early for me to do these inline…\n
          \n
          Your 1st point, here’s one, had to scroll about 1/8 down the page for. Granted it doesn’t explicitly say it was “okay”, the point stands:\n
          \n
          > “China/Russia/Europe are largely inhabited by people whose ancestry traces back 1000s of years to the same region. That’s very different from North America, where most natives where killed (either through disease or “policy”).\n
          \n
          > That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), but it’s still very different.”\n
          \n
          As you also wanted to be pointed to a source for genocides on the same or larger scale throughout history, allow me to search Wikipedia for you:\n
          \n
          [en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides)\n
          \n
          As to point 3, who exactly determines who is responsible and who will benefit from this paln to raise up America’s indigenous population to their proper station? Are 1st generation immigrants from Ghana going to be required to pay up? How about Natives who’s ancestry dates back to a tribe that exterminated another tribe? Surely that should also qualify as genocide?\n
          \n
          And as to point 4, we, in the west, as I did point out I was American, are in a (**relatively**) peaceful time, which implies that throughout history it has not been, but I guess I need to spell it out for some people.\n
          \n
          At the end of the day, you’re not looking to be enlightened or to learn anything, your post was directed to completely discount my points, or to “*troll*” I will admit I was getting heated reading some of the off the wall bullshit I was seeing, but superlatives aside, I stand by everything I’ve posted. I apologize if you TRULY didn’t know about other genocides, or if your worldview has jaded you to the point where you don’t initially see posts that clearly illustrate what I said, at least in the abstract, and you took the time to go back and reread them and allow it to sink in.\n
          \n
          Feel free to pick apart this post, too. Nothing is more entertaining in a meme thread than for 2 idiots, myself included, to argue about genocide.🙂
          """
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          date: 2023-10-11 14:10:25.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41323
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2204
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +body: "Oversimplifing an empire being overthrown. Seems legit."
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2023-10-12 18:39:26.0 +02:00
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          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        -id: 43459
        -bodyTs: "'empir':3 'legit':7 'oversimplif':1 'overthrown':5 'seem':6"
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          date: 2023-10-12 18:39:26.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 43459
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2281}
      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2263
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
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        +body: """
          People. On a land mass. Wiped out. People. On a land mass. Wiped out.\n
          \n
          Yeah, I guess I see your point.
          """
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          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
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        -id: 43560
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          date: 2023-10-12 19:25:03.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 43560
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
      16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2034
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "You too buddy! Would enjoy having rational conversations, even note elsewhere in this thread that I’m taking the time to read American Holocaust, as I told myself “why should I ask someone to do something I’m not willing to do myself?” Granted, being close to 50 years old, it likely won’t change my mind, but I reason that if I do read this book, maybe I can better understand other’s worldview, and maybe, just maybe we can have civil conversations instead of the stupid fucking bickering that’s been going on in a… wait for it… meme thread!"
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          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "Oh, I stand corrected. A link to a Google doc. Should probably submit that to the Wikipedia article I linked as clearly thier information is flawed. You win an internet today."
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      date: 2023-10-09 13:23:41.0 +02:00
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     …2
  }
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  +body: "It’ll be a while before I can read further but I do intend to read all of it. In my biased opinion so far, i reads like a propaganda piece, the words seleceted in some of the passages are used to elicit a response, but maybe I’ll see differently as I continue. I do have a question, when you say “genocide”, are you also including open conflicts? It’s my understanding of the word that it would not, but I want to make sure, especially when numbers are involved, that we’re using the same metrics."
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2281
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    +slug: "History"
    +title: "History"
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2196
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "Explain. How is it a false equivalent? Romans controlled the city / region for over a thousand years and were later conqured, and their land stolen, to use the vernacular of this thread."
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2324
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "So by that logic, the Turks should give Constantinople back to the Romans?"
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      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2307
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          +body: """
            For fucks sake… 1st off, whether or not this qualifies as a “meme”, it doesn’t fit the accepted norm of what most people expect to see when they click on “memes”\n
            \n
            Secondly, and this may sting a little, but peace as we know it is a relatively new thing in world history. I’ve seen a multitude of other comments here proclaiming all those other genocides were okay because they were thousands of years ago. It’s that “in my lifetime” mentality that just fucking grinds my gears. Through thousands of years of history, one genocide is cherry picked and held up as the worst ever, and the citizens who"benefitted" from it are supposed to pick up the tab? My ancestors weren’t Spanish or English, and my family has been here for about 130 years having come from Germany in 1890. How much of the tab am I supposed to pick up?\n
            \n
            Fact of the matter is, the only constant in human history is war. We’re in a (relatively) peaceful era now, and that’s taking into account Ukraine/Russia, Israel/Palestine, and probably another 20 or 30 wars I’m not up to speed on because I’m American and our media doesn’t seem to actually inform us on world events from countries we don’t buy shit from.
            """
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        +body: """
          Clever.\n
          \n
          I’m going through the sourced materials in the American Holocaust book, (great title, by the way! not divisive at all!), and considering the sources, it’s pretty obvious Stannard has an agenda, he’s a “cultural materialist”, an offshoot of cultural Marxism. But you knew that, you just didn’t think I’d look 😉\n
          \n
          Anyway, with as far as I’ve gotten, I can surmise the sources, the majority of them at least, point to textbooks published by “Berkley; University of California press”. Seems a lot of anti-American sentiment comes out of Berkley. Just to appease my curiosity, I’m going to look deeper into this fellow, who, funny enough, cites his own works as well. That’s pretty douchey
          """
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2349
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: """
          Ah, the internet…\n
          \n
          The phrase “That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), **but it’s still very different**” effectively translates to “Even though this happened, this is worse”.\n
          \n
          If you bothered to look at that list, you’ll note the mention of the California Genocide of 1846. Reported casualties between 9,492 and 16,094, with other estimates as high as 120,000. Absolutely fucking horrible and a black mark on American history indeed. However, there are 31 other genocides on that list that are higher in number, with three of those even happening prior to California-\n
          \n
          Dzungam 1755, 480,000-600,000 Taino 1492, 68,000-968,000 Albigensian 1209, 200,000-1,000,000\n
          \n
          I guess it depends on how you define “genocide”, but since Wikipedia is generally using the accepted definition, I feel pretty safe in going with what they say.\n
          \n
          And I did lay out proof, you’re just too caught up in whatever ideology to see it. Feel free to rebut, down vote, cry or whatever makes you feel better, but my point was the world is a horrible place, and terrible things happen to all kinds of groups of people. The “meme” that started all this IS a cherry picked reference to people who were wronged (I’m not disputing they were wronged, but so were… insert any other group of people here). Throughout history, most civilizations are founded on the conquering of another. As horrible as that is, it’s a fact. And after the fact, many of the remaining conqured are treated horribly. Also a fact.\n
          \n
          Lay out some real numbers, cite an authoritative source (sources) and then we can talk. Until then, I hope the best for you and really wish we could get past this bickering bullshit. Life is too short, and trying to pin the sins of one’s father on the current generation isn’t solving shit. Work toward bettering peoples lives without having to exact revenge from people who didn’t have fuck all to do with it.
          """
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
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        +body: "And it’s written by a person, with an agenda and bias just like everyone else. Have a tough time taking anything seriously from someone affiliated with Ward Churchill."
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          date: 2023-10-11 21:46:08.0 +02:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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        -id: 41891
        -bodyTs: "'affili':26 'agenda':10 'anyth':22 'bias':12 'churchil':29 'els':16 'everyon':15 'like':14 'person':7 'serious':23 'someon':25 'take':21 'time':20 'tough':19 'ward':28 'written':4"
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          date: 2023-10-11 21:46:08.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41891
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2224 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "Citing one book by someone with a clear agenda isn’t a good look either. You picked the fight, feel free to drop it at your leisure."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-10-11 22:01:33.0 +02:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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        -id: 41925
        -bodyTs: "'agenda':9 'book':3 'cite':1 'clear':8 'drop':23 'either':15 'feel':20 'fight':19 'free':21 'good':13 'isn':10 'leisur':27 'look':14 'one':2 'pick':17 'someon':5"
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          date: 2023-10-11 22:01:33.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41925
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "I agree with your points, and yes it’s a better perspective, however, that’s not the world we’re living in. There are some who are hell bent on wiping out continents of people due to any number of reasons ranging from beliefs to the exploitation of natural resources merely for financial gain. I really wish we did live in a world where the word “nuclear” invoked thoughts of clean(er), abundant and cheaper energy vs it invoking dread at the prospect of total annihilation."
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          date: 2023-10-11 13:43:35.0 +02:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-10-11 13:43:35.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41306
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2254
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2250 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +body: """
          Oh wait, my fault. I was responding to your comment “**We are still here**”\n
          \n
          Wasn’t sure which part of my anaolgy you weren’t getting. Now we can peacefully argue about that instead.\n
          \n
          **EDITED FOR TYPO
          """
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          date: 2023-10-12 20:52:28.0 +02:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        -id: 43749
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        +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/comment/4361340"
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          date: 2023-10-12 21:23:04.0 +02:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697136748 {#2244
          date: 2023-10-12 20:52:28.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 43749
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2189
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: """
          You don’t have to apologize to me. If he’s someone who would collaborate with Ward Churchill, he’s got a clear agenda. My source for that was looking him up on Wikipedia, as I had no clue who he was. I’m not going to do the effort of sending you a direct link to the article, so feel free to do it yourself. And grant us all the fact that someone who writes a book has an implied agenda to sell the book.\n
          \n
          And every time you start a post with “Source?”, it’s a bad look.
          """
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          date: 2023-10-12 00:17:28.0 +02:00
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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        -id: 42135
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        +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/comment/4331392"
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          date: 2023-10-12 00:17:28.0 +02:00
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      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "While I mostly agree, I never said constant war, but where I will disagree in a sense is, the prospect of total annihilation would have been a factor millennia ago had the technology been there. Pick your era, the Romans, the various Chinese dynasties, the English, etc… if they had the means, they would have likely used it, having zero regard for the impact it would have later, mostly due to a poor understanding of the technology. I do believe, at least between “the big three”, meaning the US, Russia and China, nuclear war is an extremely potent deterrent to all out war. It’s the “kids who want to be in the club” that worry me, everyone from NK to Israel. It sucks, but the atomic cat is out of the bag in a world we’re all forced to live in, and the polarization of politics and other bullshit only work to drive that wedge deeper and push us closer to… bad shit."
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          "@ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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          date: 2023-10-10 22:52:49.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 40641
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: """
          As I’m too stupid and it’s to early for me to do these inline…\n
          \n
          Your 1st point, here’s one, had to scroll about 1/8 down the page for. Granted it doesn’t explicitly say it was “okay”, the point stands:\n
          \n
          > “China/Russia/Europe are largely inhabited by people whose ancestry traces back 1000s of years to the same region. That’s very different from North America, where most natives where killed (either through disease or “policy”).\n
          \n
          > That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), but it’s still very different.”\n
          \n
          As you also wanted to be pointed to a source for genocides on the same or larger scale throughout history, allow me to search Wikipedia for you:\n
          \n
          [en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides)\n
          \n
          As to point 3, who exactly determines who is responsible and who will benefit from this paln to raise up America’s indigenous population to their proper station? Are 1st generation immigrants from Ghana going to be required to pay up? How about Natives who’s ancestry dates back to a tribe that exterminated another tribe? Surely that should also qualify as genocide?\n
          \n
          And as to point 4, we, in the west, as I did point out I was American, are in a (**relatively**) peaceful time, which implies that throughout history it has not been, but I guess I need to spell it out for some people.\n
          \n
          At the end of the day, you’re not looking to be enlightened or to learn anything, your post was directed to completely discount my points, or to “*troll*” I will admit I was getting heated reading some of the off the wall bullshit I was seeing, but superlatives aside, I stand by everything I’ve posted. I apologize if you TRULY didn’t know about other genocides, or if your worldview has jaded you to the point where you don’t initially see posts that clearly illustrate what I said, at least in the abstract, and you took the time to go back and reread them and allow it to sink in.\n
          \n
          Feel free to pick apart this post, too. Nothing is more entertaining in a meme thread than for 2 idiots, myself included, to argue about genocide.🙂
          """
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697026225 {#2036
          date: 2023-10-11 14:10:25.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41323
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2204
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2200 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +body: "Oversimplifing an empire being overthrown. Seems legit."
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2023-10-12 18:39:26.0 +02:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        -id: 43459
        -bodyTs: "'empir':3 'legit':7 'oversimplif':1 'overthrown':5 'seem':6"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697128766 {#2209
          date: 2023-10-12 18:39:26.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 43459
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2281}
      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2263
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
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        +body: """
          People. On a land mass. Wiped out. People. On a land mass. Wiped out.\n
          \n
          Yeah, I guess I see your point.
          """
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          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        -id: 43560
        -bodyTs: "'guess':17 'land':4,11 'mass':5,12 'peopl':1,8 'point':21 'see':19 'wipe':6,13 'yeah':15"
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          date: 2023-10-12 19:25:03.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 43560
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
      16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2034
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +body: "You too buddy! Would enjoy having rational conversations, even note elsewhere in this thread that I’m taking the time to read American Holocaust, as I told myself “why should I ask someone to do something I’m not willing to do myself?” Granted, being close to 50 years old, it likely won’t change my mind, but I reason that if I do read this book, maybe I can better understand other’s worldview, and maybe, just maybe we can have civil conversations instead of the stupid fucking bickering that’s been going on in a… wait for it… meme thread!"
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "Oh, I stand corrected. A link to a Google doc. Should probably submit that to the Wikipedia article I linked as clearly thier information is flawed. You win an internet today."
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      date: 2023-10-09 13:23:41.0 +02:00
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     …2
  }
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  +body: "It’ll be a while before I can read further but I do intend to read all of it. In my biased opinion so far, i reads like a propaganda piece, the words seleceted in some of the passages are used to elicit a response, but maybe I’ll see differently as I continue. I do have a question, when you say “genocide”, are you also including open conflicts? It’s my understanding of the word that it would not, but I want to make sure, especially when numbers are involved, that we’re using the same metrics."
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2281
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    +slug: "History"
    +title: "History"
    +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/be2234f5-922c-44d7-a193-c11380bdfa00.jpeg"
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2196
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "Explain. How is it a false equivalent? Romans controlled the city / region for over a thousand years and were later conqured, and their land stolen, to use the vernacular of this thread."
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2324
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        +body: "So by that logic, the Turks should give Constantinople back to the Romans?"
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      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2307
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          +body: """
            For fucks sake… 1st off, whether or not this qualifies as a “meme”, it doesn’t fit the accepted norm of what most people expect to see when they click on “memes”\n
            \n
            Secondly, and this may sting a little, but peace as we know it is a relatively new thing in world history. I’ve seen a multitude of other comments here proclaiming all those other genocides were okay because they were thousands of years ago. It’s that “in my lifetime” mentality that just fucking grinds my gears. Through thousands of years of history, one genocide is cherry picked and held up as the worst ever, and the citizens who"benefitted" from it are supposed to pick up the tab? My ancestors weren’t Spanish or English, and my family has been here for about 130 years having come from Germany in 1890. How much of the tab am I supposed to pick up?\n
            \n
            Fact of the matter is, the only constant in human history is war. We’re in a (relatively) peaceful era now, and that’s taking into account Ukraine/Russia, Israel/Palestine, and probably another 20 or 30 wars I’m not up to speed on because I’m American and our media doesn’t seem to actually inform us on world events from countries we don’t buy shit from.
            """
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        +body: """
          Clever.\n
          \n
          I’m going through the sourced materials in the American Holocaust book, (great title, by the way! not divisive at all!), and considering the sources, it’s pretty obvious Stannard has an agenda, he’s a “cultural materialist”, an offshoot of cultural Marxism. But you knew that, you just didn’t think I’d look 😉\n
          \n
          Anyway, with as far as I’ve gotten, I can surmise the sources, the majority of them at least, point to textbooks published by “Berkley; University of California press”. Seems a lot of anti-American sentiment comes out of Berkley. Just to appease my curiosity, I’m going to look deeper into this fellow, who, funny enough, cites his own works as well. That’s pretty douchey
          """
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2349
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: """
          Ah, the internet…\n
          \n
          The phrase “That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), **but it’s still very different**” effectively translates to “Even though this happened, this is worse”.\n
          \n
          If you bothered to look at that list, you’ll note the mention of the California Genocide of 1846. Reported casualties between 9,492 and 16,094, with other estimates as high as 120,000. Absolutely fucking horrible and a black mark on American history indeed. However, there are 31 other genocides on that list that are higher in number, with three of those even happening prior to California-\n
          \n
          Dzungam 1755, 480,000-600,000 Taino 1492, 68,000-968,000 Albigensian 1209, 200,000-1,000,000\n
          \n
          I guess it depends on how you define “genocide”, but since Wikipedia is generally using the accepted definition, I feel pretty safe in going with what they say.\n
          \n
          And I did lay out proof, you’re just too caught up in whatever ideology to see it. Feel free to rebut, down vote, cry or whatever makes you feel better, but my point was the world is a horrible place, and terrible things happen to all kinds of groups of people. The “meme” that started all this IS a cherry picked reference to people who were wronged (I’m not disputing they were wronged, but so were… insert any other group of people here). Throughout history, most civilizations are founded on the conquering of another. As horrible as that is, it’s a fact. And after the fact, many of the remaining conqured are treated horribly. Also a fact.\n
          \n
          Lay out some real numbers, cite an authoritative source (sources) and then we can talk. Until then, I hope the best for you and really wish we could get past this bickering bullshit. Life is too short, and trying to pin the sins of one’s father on the current generation isn’t solving shit. Work toward bettering peoples lives without having to exact revenge from people who didn’t have fuck all to do with it.
          """
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2113 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "And it’s written by a person, with an agenda and bias just like everyone else. Have a tough time taking anything seriously from someone affiliated with Ward Churchill."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-10-11 21:46:08.0 +02:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
        ]
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        -id: 41891
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          date: 2023-10-11 21:46:08.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41891
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2224 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "Citing one book by someone with a clear agenda isn’t a good look either. You picked the fight, feel free to drop it at your leisure."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
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          date: 2023-10-11 22:01:33.0 +02:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
        ]
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        -id: 41925
        -bodyTs: "'agenda':9 'book':3 'cite':1 'clear':8 'drop':23 'either':15 'feel':20 'fight':19 'free':21 'good':13 'isn':10 'leisur':27 'look':14 'one':2 'pick':17 'someon':5"
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          date: 2023-10-11 22:01:33.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41925
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2022 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "I agree with your points, and yes it’s a better perspective, however, that’s not the world we’re living in. There are some who are hell bent on wiping out continents of people due to any number of reasons ranging from beliefs to the exploitation of natural resources merely for financial gain. I really wish we did live in a world where the word “nuclear” invoked thoughts of clean(er), abundant and cheaper energy vs it invoking dread at the prospect of total annihilation."
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          date: 2023-10-11 13:43:35.0 +02:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        -bodyTs: "'abund':73 'agre':2 'annihil':86 'belief':44 'bent':29 'better':11 'cheaper':75 'clean':71 'contin':33 'dread':80 'due':36 'energi':76 'er':72 'exploit':47 'financi':53 'gain':54 'hell':28 'howev':13 'invok':68,79 'live':21,60 'mere':51 'natur':49 'nuclear':67 'number':39 'peopl':35 'perspect':12 'point':5 'prospect':83 'rang':42 're':20 'realli':56 'reason':41 'resourc':50 'thought':69 'total':85 'vs':77 'wipe':31 'wish':57 'word':66 'world':18,63 'yes':7"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-10-11 13:43:35.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41306
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2254
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2250 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +body: """
          Oh wait, my fault. I was responding to your comment “**We are still here**”\n
          \n
          Wasn’t sure which part of my anaolgy you weren’t getting. Now we can peacefully argue about that instead.\n
          \n
          **EDITED FOR TYPO
          """
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          date: 2023-10-12 20:52:28.0 +02:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        -id: 43749
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        +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/comment/4361340"
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          date: 2023-10-12 21:23:04.0 +02:00
        }
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          date: 2023-10-12 20:52:28.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 43749
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2189
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: """
          You don’t have to apologize to me. If he’s someone who would collaborate with Ward Churchill, he’s got a clear agenda. My source for that was looking him up on Wikipedia, as I had no clue who he was. I’m not going to do the effort of sending you a direct link to the article, so feel free to do it yourself. And grant us all the fact that someone who writes a book has an implied agenda to sell the book.\n
          \n
          And every time you start a post with “Source?”, it’s a bad look.
          """
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          date: 2023-10-12 00:17:28.0 +02:00
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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        -id: 42135
        -bodyTs: "'agenda':24,82 'apolog':6 'articl':59 'bad':99 'book':78,86 'churchil':18 'clear':23 'clue':39 'collabor':15 'direct':55 'effort':50 'everi':88 'fact':72 'feel':61 'free':62 'go':46 'got':21 'grant':68 'impli':81 'link':56 'look':30,100 'm':44 'post':93 'sell':84 'send':52 'someon':12,74 'sourc':26,95 'start':91 'time':89 'us':69 'ward':17 'wikipedia':34 'would':14 'write':76"
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        +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/comment/4331392"
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          date: 2023-10-12 00:17:28.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 42135
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1402 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "While I mostly agree, I never said constant war, but where I will disagree in a sense is, the prospect of total annihilation would have been a factor millennia ago had the technology been there. Pick your era, the Romans, the various Chinese dynasties, the English, etc… if they had the means, they would have likely used it, having zero regard for the impact it would have later, mostly due to a poor understanding of the technology. I do believe, at least between “the big three”, meaning the US, Russia and China, nuclear war is an extremely potent deterrent to all out war. It’s the “kids who want to be in the club” that worry me, everyone from NK to Israel. It sucks, but the atomic cat is out of the bag in a world we’re all forced to live in, and the polarization of politics and other bullshit only work to drive that wedge deeper and push us closer to… bad shit."
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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          date: 2023-10-10 22:52:49.0 +02:00
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      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: """
          As I’m too stupid and it’s to early for me to do these inline…\n
          \n
          Your 1st point, here’s one, had to scroll about 1/8 down the page for. Granted it doesn’t explicitly say it was “okay”, the point stands:\n
          \n
          > “China/Russia/Europe are largely inhabited by people whose ancestry traces back 1000s of years to the same region. That’s very different from North America, where most natives where killed (either through disease or “policy”).\n
          \n
          > That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), but it’s still very different.”\n
          \n
          As you also wanted to be pointed to a source for genocides on the same or larger scale throughout history, allow me to search Wikipedia for you:\n
          \n
          [en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides)\n
          \n
          As to point 3, who exactly determines who is responsible and who will benefit from this paln to raise up America’s indigenous population to their proper station? Are 1st generation immigrants from Ghana going to be required to pay up? How about Natives who’s ancestry dates back to a tribe that exterminated another tribe? Surely that should also qualify as genocide?\n
          \n
          And as to point 4, we, in the west, as I did point out I was American, are in a (**relatively**) peaceful time, which implies that throughout history it has not been, but I guess I need to spell it out for some people.\n
          \n
          At the end of the day, you’re not looking to be enlightened or to learn anything, your post was directed to completely discount my points, or to “*troll*” I will admit I was getting heated reading some of the off the wall bullshit I was seeing, but superlatives aside, I stand by everything I’ve posted. I apologize if you TRULY didn’t know about other genocides, or if your worldview has jaded you to the point where you don’t initially see posts that clearly illustrate what I said, at least in the abstract, and you took the time to go back and reread them and allow it to sink in.\n
          \n
          Feel free to pick apart this post, too. Nothing is more entertaining in a meme thread than for 2 idiots, myself included, to argue about genocide.🙂
          """
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697026225 {#2036
          date: 2023-10-11 14:10:25.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 41323
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2204
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2200 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +body: "Oversimplifing an empire being overthrown. Seems legit."
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2023-10-12 18:39:26.0 +02:00
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          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        -id: 43459
        -bodyTs: "'empir':3 'legit':7 'oversimplif':1 'overthrown':5 'seem':6"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697128766 {#2209
          date: 2023-10-12 18:39:26.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 43459
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2281}
      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2263
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
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        +body: """
          People. On a land mass. Wiped out. People. On a land mass. Wiped out.\n
          \n
          Yeah, I guess I see your point.
          """
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          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
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      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
      16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2034
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        +body: "You too buddy! Would enjoy having rational conversations, even note elsewhere in this thread that I’m taking the time to read American Holocaust, as I told myself “why should I ask someone to do something I’m not willing to do myself?” Granted, being close to 50 years old, it likely won’t change my mind, but I reason that if I do read this book, maybe I can better understand other’s worldview, and maybe, just maybe we can have civil conversations instead of the stupid fucking bickering that’s been going on in a… wait for it… meme thread!"
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
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        +body: "Oh, I stand corrected. A link to a Google doc. Should probably submit that to the Wikipedia article I linked as clearly thier information is flawed. You win an internet today."
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     …2
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  +body: "It’ll be a while before I can read further but I do intend to read all of it. In my biased opinion so far, i reads like a propaganda piece, the words seleceted in some of the passages are used to elicit a response, but maybe I’ll see differently as I continue. I do have a question, when you say “genocide”, are you also including open conflicts? It’s my understanding of the word that it would not, but I want to make sure, especially when numbers are involved, that we’re using the same metrics."
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2263
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2196
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        +body: "Explain. How is it a false equivalent? Romans controlled the city / region for over a thousand years and were later conqured, and their land stolen, to use the vernacular of this thread."
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        +body: "So by that logic, the Turks should give Constantinople back to the Romans?"
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            For fucks sake… 1st off, whether or not this qualifies as a “meme”, it doesn’t fit the accepted norm of what most people expect to see when they click on “memes”\n
            \n
            Secondly, and this may sting a little, but peace as we know it is a relatively new thing in world history. I’ve seen a multitude of other comments here proclaiming all those other genocides were okay because they were thousands of years ago. It’s that “in my lifetime” mentality that just fucking grinds my gears. Through thousands of years of history, one genocide is cherry picked and held up as the worst ever, and the citizens who"benefitted" from it are supposed to pick up the tab? My ancestors weren’t Spanish or English, and my family has been here for about 130 years having come from Germany in 1890. How much of the tab am I supposed to pick up?\n
            \n
            Fact of the matter is, the only constant in human history is war. We’re in a (relatively) peaceful era now, and that’s taking into account Ukraine/Russia, Israel/Palestine, and probably another 20 or 30 wars I’m not up to speed on because I’m American and our media doesn’t seem to actually inform us on world events from countries we don’t buy shit from.
            """
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          Clever.\n
          \n
          I’m going through the sourced materials in the American Holocaust book, (great title, by the way! not divisive at all!), and considering the sources, it’s pretty obvious Stannard has an agenda, he’s a “cultural materialist”, an offshoot of cultural Marxism. But you knew that, you just didn’t think I’d look 😉\n
          \n
          Anyway, with as far as I’ve gotten, I can surmise the sources, the majority of them at least, point to textbooks published by “Berkley; University of California press”. Seems a lot of anti-American sentiment comes out of Berkley. Just to appease my curiosity, I’m going to look deeper into this fellow, who, funny enough, cites his own works as well. That’s pretty douchey
          """
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        +body: """
          Ah, the internet…\n
          \n
          The phrase “That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), **but it’s still very different**” effectively translates to “Even though this happened, this is worse”.\n
          \n
          If you bothered to look at that list, you’ll note the mention of the California Genocide of 1846. Reported casualties between 9,492 and 16,094, with other estimates as high as 120,000. Absolutely fucking horrible and a black mark on American history indeed. However, there are 31 other genocides on that list that are higher in number, with three of those even happening prior to California-\n
          \n
          Dzungam 1755, 480,000-600,000 Taino 1492, 68,000-968,000 Albigensian 1209, 200,000-1,000,000\n
          \n
          I guess it depends on how you define “genocide”, but since Wikipedia is generally using the accepted definition, I feel pretty safe in going with what they say.\n
          \n
          And I did lay out proof, you’re just too caught up in whatever ideology to see it. Feel free to rebut, down vote, cry or whatever makes you feel better, but my point was the world is a horrible place, and terrible things happen to all kinds of groups of people. The “meme” that started all this IS a cherry picked reference to people who were wronged (I’m not disputing they were wronged, but so were… insert any other group of people here). Throughout history, most civilizations are founded on the conquering of another. As horrible as that is, it’s a fact. And after the fact, many of the remaining conqured are treated horribly. Also a fact.\n
          \n
          Lay out some real numbers, cite an authoritative source (sources) and then we can talk. Until then, I hope the best for you and really wish we could get past this bickering bullshit. Life is too short, and trying to pin the sins of one’s father on the current generation isn’t solving shit. Work toward bettering peoples lives without having to exact revenge from people who didn’t have fuck all to do with it.
          """
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          date: 2023-10-11 17:56:07.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41589
      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2113 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "And it’s written by a person, with an agenda and bias just like everyone else. Have a tough time taking anything seriously from someone affiliated with Ward Churchill."
        +lang: "en"
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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        -id: 41891
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          date: 2023-10-11 21:46:08.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 41891
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "Citing one book by someone with a clear agenda isn’t a good look either. You picked the fight, feel free to drop it at your leisure."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-10-11 22:01:33.0 +02:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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        -id: 41925
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          date: 2023-10-11 22:01:33.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41925
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "I agree with your points, and yes it’s a better perspective, however, that’s not the world we’re living in. There are some who are hell bent on wiping out continents of people due to any number of reasons ranging from beliefs to the exploitation of natural resources merely for financial gain. I really wish we did live in a world where the word “nuclear” invoked thoughts of clean(er), abundant and cheaper energy vs it invoking dread at the prospect of total annihilation."
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works"
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          date: 2023-10-11 13:43:35.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 41306
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2254
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: """
          Oh wait, my fault. I was responding to your comment “**We are still here**”\n
          \n
          Wasn’t sure which part of my anaolgy you weren’t getting. Now we can peacefully argue about that instead.\n
          \n
          **EDITED FOR TYPO
          """
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          date: 2023-10-12 20:52:28.0 +02:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
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          date: 2023-10-12 21:23:04.0 +02:00
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          date: 2023-10-12 20:52:28.0 +02:00
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      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2189
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        +body: """
          You don’t have to apologize to me. If he’s someone who would collaborate with Ward Churchill, he’s got a clear agenda. My source for that was looking him up on Wikipedia, as I had no clue who he was. I’m not going to do the effort of sending you a direct link to the article, so feel free to do it yourself. And grant us all the fact that someone who writes a book has an implied agenda to sell the book.\n
          \n
          And every time you start a post with “Source?”, it’s a bad look.
          """
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        -id: 42135
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          date: 2023-10-12 00:17:28.0 +02:00
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      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "While I mostly agree, I never said constant war, but where I will disagree in a sense is, the prospect of total annihilation would have been a factor millennia ago had the technology been there. Pick your era, the Romans, the various Chinese dynasties, the English, etc… if they had the means, they would have likely used it, having zero regard for the impact it would have later, mostly due to a poor understanding of the technology. I do believe, at least between “the big three”, meaning the US, Russia and China, nuclear war is an extremely potent deterrent to all out war. It’s the “kids who want to be in the club” that worry me, everyone from NK to Israel. It sucks, but the atomic cat is out of the bag in a world we’re all forced to live in, and the polarization of politics and other bullshit only work to drive that wedge deeper and push us closer to… bad shit."
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          "@ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works"
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      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: """
          As I’m too stupid and it’s to early for me to do these inline…\n
          \n
          Your 1st point, here’s one, had to scroll about 1/8 down the page for. Granted it doesn’t explicitly say it was “okay”, the point stands:\n
          \n
          > “China/Russia/Europe are largely inhabited by people whose ancestry traces back 1000s of years to the same region. That’s very different from North America, where most natives where killed (either through disease or “policy”).\n
          \n
          > That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), but it’s still very different.”\n
          \n
          As you also wanted to be pointed to a source for genocides on the same or larger scale throughout history, allow me to search Wikipedia for you:\n
          \n
          [en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides)\n
          \n
          As to point 3, who exactly determines who is responsible and who will benefit from this paln to raise up America’s indigenous population to their proper station? Are 1st generation immigrants from Ghana going to be required to pay up? How about Natives who’s ancestry dates back to a tribe that exterminated another tribe? Surely that should also qualify as genocide?\n
          \n
          And as to point 4, we, in the west, as I did point out I was American, are in a (**relatively**) peaceful time, which implies that throughout history it has not been, but I guess I need to spell it out for some people.\n
          \n
          At the end of the day, you’re not looking to be enlightened or to learn anything, your post was directed to completely discount my points, or to “*troll*” I will admit I was getting heated reading some of the off the wall bullshit I was seeing, but superlatives aside, I stand by everything I’ve posted. I apologize if you TRULY didn’t know about other genocides, or if your worldview has jaded you to the point where you don’t initially see posts that clearly illustrate what I said, at least in the abstract, and you took the time to go back and reread them and allow it to sink in.\n
          \n
          Feel free to pick apart this post, too. Nothing is more entertaining in a meme thread than for 2 idiots, myself included, to argue about genocide.🙂
          """
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697026225 {#2036
          date: 2023-10-11 14:10:25.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 41323
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2204
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +body: "Oversimplifing an empire being overthrown. Seems legit."
        +lang: "en"
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
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          date: 2023-10-12 18:39:26.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 43459
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2281
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        +body: "It’ll be a while before I can read further but I do intend to read all of it. In my biased opinion so far, i reads like a propaganda piece, the words seleceted in some of the passages are used to elicit a response, but maybe I’ll see differently as I continue. I do have a question, when you say “genocide”, are you also including open conflicts? It’s my understanding of the word that it would not, but I want to make sure, especially when numbers are involved, that we’re using the same metrics."
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      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
      16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2034
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        +body: "You too buddy! Would enjoy having rational conversations, even note elsewhere in this thread that I’m taking the time to read American Holocaust, as I told myself “why should I ask someone to do something I’m not willing to do myself?” Granted, being close to 50 years old, it likely won’t change my mind, but I reason that if I do read this book, maybe I can better understand other’s worldview, and maybe, just maybe we can have civil conversations instead of the stupid fucking bickering that’s been going on in a… wait for it… meme thread!"
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
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        +body: "Oh, I stand corrected. A link to a Google doc. Should probably submit that to the Wikipedia article I linked as clearly thier information is flawed. You win an internet today."
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      date: 2023-10-09 13:23:41.0 +02:00
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     …2
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  +body: """
    People. On a land mass. Wiped out. People. On a land mass. Wiped out.\n
    \n
    Yeah, I guess I see your point.
    """
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2263
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2196
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        +body: "Explain. How is it a false equivalent? Romans controlled the city / region for over a thousand years and were later conqured, and their land stolen, to use the vernacular of this thread."
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2324
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        +body: "So by that logic, the Turks should give Constantinople back to the Romans?"
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          +body: """
            For fucks sake… 1st off, whether or not this qualifies as a “meme”, it doesn’t fit the accepted norm of what most people expect to see when they click on “memes”\n
            \n
            Secondly, and this may sting a little, but peace as we know it is a relatively new thing in world history. I’ve seen a multitude of other comments here proclaiming all those other genocides were okay because they were thousands of years ago. It’s that “in my lifetime” mentality that just fucking grinds my gears. Through thousands of years of history, one genocide is cherry picked and held up as the worst ever, and the citizens who"benefitted" from it are supposed to pick up the tab? My ancestors weren’t Spanish or English, and my family has been here for about 130 years having come from Germany in 1890. How much of the tab am I supposed to pick up?\n
            \n
            Fact of the matter is, the only constant in human history is war. We’re in a (relatively) peaceful era now, and that’s taking into account Ukraine/Russia, Israel/Palestine, and probably another 20 or 30 wars I’m not up to speed on because I’m American and our media doesn’t seem to actually inform us on world events from countries we don’t buy shit from.
            """
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        +body: """
          Clever.\n
          \n
          I’m going through the sourced materials in the American Holocaust book, (great title, by the way! not divisive at all!), and considering the sources, it’s pretty obvious Stannard has an agenda, he’s a “cultural materialist”, an offshoot of cultural Marxism. But you knew that, you just didn’t think I’d look 😉\n
          \n
          Anyway, with as far as I’ve gotten, I can surmise the sources, the majority of them at least, point to textbooks published by “Berkley; University of California press”. Seems a lot of anti-American sentiment comes out of Berkley. Just to appease my curiosity, I’m going to look deeper into this fellow, who, funny enough, cites his own works as well. That’s pretty douchey
          """
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2349
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        +body: """
          Ah, the internet…\n
          \n
          The phrase “That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), **but it’s still very different**” effectively translates to “Even though this happened, this is worse”.\n
          \n
          If you bothered to look at that list, you’ll note the mention of the California Genocide of 1846. Reported casualties between 9,492 and 16,094, with other estimates as high as 120,000. Absolutely fucking horrible and a black mark on American history indeed. However, there are 31 other genocides on that list that are higher in number, with three of those even happening prior to California-\n
          \n
          Dzungam 1755, 480,000-600,000 Taino 1492, 68,000-968,000 Albigensian 1209, 200,000-1,000,000\n
          \n
          I guess it depends on how you define “genocide”, but since Wikipedia is generally using the accepted definition, I feel pretty safe in going with what they say.\n
          \n
          And I did lay out proof, you’re just too caught up in whatever ideology to see it. Feel free to rebut, down vote, cry or whatever makes you feel better, but my point was the world is a horrible place, and terrible things happen to all kinds of groups of people. The “meme” that started all this IS a cherry picked reference to people who were wronged (I’m not disputing they were wronged, but so were… insert any other group of people here). Throughout history, most civilizations are founded on the conquering of another. As horrible as that is, it’s a fact. And after the fact, many of the remaining conqured are treated horribly. Also a fact.\n
          \n
          Lay out some real numbers, cite an authoritative source (sources) and then we can talk. Until then, I hope the best for you and really wish we could get past this bickering bullshit. Life is too short, and trying to pin the sins of one’s father on the current generation isn’t solving shit. Work toward bettering peoples lives without having to exact revenge from people who didn’t have fuck all to do with it.
          """
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          date: 2023-10-11 17:56:07.0 +02:00
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2113 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "And it’s written by a person, with an agenda and bias just like everyone else. Have a tough time taking anything seriously from someone affiliated with Ward Churchill."
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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          date: 2023-10-11 21:46:08.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 41891
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "Citing one book by someone with a clear agenda isn’t a good look either. You picked the fight, feel free to drop it at your leisure."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-10-11 22:01:33.0 +02:00
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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        -id: 41925
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          date: 2023-10-11 22:01:33.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41925
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "I agree with your points, and yes it’s a better perspective, however, that’s not the world we’re living in. There are some who are hell bent on wiping out continents of people due to any number of reasons ranging from beliefs to the exploitation of natural resources merely for financial gain. I really wish we did live in a world where the word “nuclear” invoked thoughts of clean(er), abundant and cheaper energy vs it invoking dread at the prospect of total annihilation."
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works"
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          date: 2023-10-11 13:43:35.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 41306
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2254
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: """
          Oh wait, my fault. I was responding to your comment “**We are still here**”\n
          \n
          Wasn’t sure which part of my anaolgy you weren’t getting. Now we can peacefully argue about that instead.\n
          \n
          **EDITED FOR TYPO
          """
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          date: 2023-10-12 20:52:28.0 +02:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
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          date: 2023-10-12 21:23:04.0 +02:00
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      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2189
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        +body: """
          You don’t have to apologize to me. If he’s someone who would collaborate with Ward Churchill, he’s got a clear agenda. My source for that was looking him up on Wikipedia, as I had no clue who he was. I’m not going to do the effort of sending you a direct link to the article, so feel free to do it yourself. And grant us all the fact that someone who writes a book has an implied agenda to sell the book.\n
          \n
          And every time you start a post with “Source?”, it’s a bad look.
          """
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        -id: 42135
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          date: 2023-10-12 00:17:28.0 +02:00
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      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "While I mostly agree, I never said constant war, but where I will disagree in a sense is, the prospect of total annihilation would have been a factor millennia ago had the technology been there. Pick your era, the Romans, the various Chinese dynasties, the English, etc… if they had the means, they would have likely used it, having zero regard for the impact it would have later, mostly due to a poor understanding of the technology. I do believe, at least between “the big three”, meaning the US, Russia and China, nuclear war is an extremely potent deterrent to all out war. It’s the “kids who want to be in the club” that worry me, everyone from NK to Israel. It sucks, but the atomic cat is out of the bag in a world we’re all forced to live in, and the polarization of politics and other bullshit only work to drive that wedge deeper and push us closer to… bad shit."
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          "@ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works"
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      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: """
          As I’m too stupid and it’s to early for me to do these inline…\n
          \n
          Your 1st point, here’s one, had to scroll about 1/8 down the page for. Granted it doesn’t explicitly say it was “okay”, the point stands:\n
          \n
          > “China/Russia/Europe are largely inhabited by people whose ancestry traces back 1000s of years to the same region. That’s very different from North America, where most natives where killed (either through disease or “policy”).\n
          \n
          > That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), but it’s still very different.”\n
          \n
          As you also wanted to be pointed to a source for genocides on the same or larger scale throughout history, allow me to search Wikipedia for you:\n
          \n
          [en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides)\n
          \n
          As to point 3, who exactly determines who is responsible and who will benefit from this paln to raise up America’s indigenous population to their proper station? Are 1st generation immigrants from Ghana going to be required to pay up? How about Natives who’s ancestry dates back to a tribe that exterminated another tribe? Surely that should also qualify as genocide?\n
          \n
          And as to point 4, we, in the west, as I did point out I was American, are in a (**relatively**) peaceful time, which implies that throughout history it has not been, but I guess I need to spell it out for some people.\n
          \n
          At the end of the day, you’re not looking to be enlightened or to learn anything, your post was directed to completely discount my points, or to “*troll*” I will admit I was getting heated reading some of the off the wall bullshit I was seeing, but superlatives aside, I stand by everything I’ve posted. I apologize if you TRULY didn’t know about other genocides, or if your worldview has jaded you to the point where you don’t initially see posts that clearly illustrate what I said, at least in the abstract, and you took the time to go back and reread them and allow it to sink in.\n
          \n
          Feel free to pick apart this post, too. Nothing is more entertaining in a meme thread than for 2 idiots, myself included, to argue about genocide.🙂
          """
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697026225 {#2036
          date: 2023-10-11 14:10:25.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 41323
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2204
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "Oversimplifing an empire being overthrown. Seems legit."
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2023-10-12 18:39:26.0 +02:00
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
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          date: 2023-10-12 18:39:26.0 +02:00
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2281
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        +body: "It’ll be a while before I can read further but I do intend to read all of it. In my biased opinion so far, i reads like a propaganda piece, the words seleceted in some of the passages are used to elicit a response, but maybe I’ll see differently as I continue. I do have a question, when you say “genocide”, are you also including open conflicts? It’s my understanding of the word that it would not, but I want to make sure, especially when numbers are involved, that we’re using the same metrics."
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      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2263}
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
      16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2034
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        +body: "You too buddy! Would enjoy having rational conversations, even note elsewhere in this thread that I’m taking the time to read American Holocaust, as I told myself “why should I ask someone to do something I’m not willing to do myself?” Granted, being close to 50 years old, it likely won’t change my mind, but I reason that if I do read this book, maybe I can better understand other’s worldview, and maybe, just maybe we can have civil conversations instead of the stupid fucking bickering that’s been going on in a… wait for it… meme thread!"
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "Oh, I stand corrected. A link to a Google doc. Should probably submit that to the Wikipedia article I linked as clearly thier information is flawed. You win an internet today."
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      date: 2023-10-09 13:23:41.0 +02:00
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     …2
  }
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  +body: """
    People. On a land mass. Wiped out. People. On a land mass. Wiped out.\n
    \n
    Yeah, I guess I see your point.
    """
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2263
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2196
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        +body: "Explain. How is it a false equivalent? Romans controlled the city / region for over a thousand years and were later conqured, and their land stolen, to use the vernacular of this thread."
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2324
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        +body: "So by that logic, the Turks should give Constantinople back to the Romans?"
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          +body: """
            For fucks sake… 1st off, whether or not this qualifies as a “meme”, it doesn’t fit the accepted norm of what most people expect to see when they click on “memes”\n
            \n
            Secondly, and this may sting a little, but peace as we know it is a relatively new thing in world history. I’ve seen a multitude of other comments here proclaiming all those other genocides were okay because they were thousands of years ago. It’s that “in my lifetime” mentality that just fucking grinds my gears. Through thousands of years of history, one genocide is cherry picked and held up as the worst ever, and the citizens who"benefitted" from it are supposed to pick up the tab? My ancestors weren’t Spanish or English, and my family has been here for about 130 years having come from Germany in 1890. How much of the tab am I supposed to pick up?\n
            \n
            Fact of the matter is, the only constant in human history is war. We’re in a (relatively) peaceful era now, and that’s taking into account Ukraine/Russia, Israel/Palestine, and probably another 20 or 30 wars I’m not up to speed on because I’m American and our media doesn’t seem to actually inform us on world events from countries we don’t buy shit from.
            """
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        +body: """
          Clever.\n
          \n
          I’m going through the sourced materials in the American Holocaust book, (great title, by the way! not divisive at all!), and considering the sources, it’s pretty obvious Stannard has an agenda, he’s a “cultural materialist”, an offshoot of cultural Marxism. But you knew that, you just didn’t think I’d look 😉\n
          \n
          Anyway, with as far as I’ve gotten, I can surmise the sources, the majority of them at least, point to textbooks published by “Berkley; University of California press”. Seems a lot of anti-American sentiment comes out of Berkley. Just to appease my curiosity, I’m going to look deeper into this fellow, who, funny enough, cites his own works as well. That’s pretty douchey
          """
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2349
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        +body: """
          Ah, the internet…\n
          \n
          The phrase “That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), **but it’s still very different**” effectively translates to “Even though this happened, this is worse”.\n
          \n
          If you bothered to look at that list, you’ll note the mention of the California Genocide of 1846. Reported casualties between 9,492 and 16,094, with other estimates as high as 120,000. Absolutely fucking horrible and a black mark on American history indeed. However, there are 31 other genocides on that list that are higher in number, with three of those even happening prior to California-\n
          \n
          Dzungam 1755, 480,000-600,000 Taino 1492, 68,000-968,000 Albigensian 1209, 200,000-1,000,000\n
          \n
          I guess it depends on how you define “genocide”, but since Wikipedia is generally using the accepted definition, I feel pretty safe in going with what they say.\n
          \n
          And I did lay out proof, you’re just too caught up in whatever ideology to see it. Feel free to rebut, down vote, cry or whatever makes you feel better, but my point was the world is a horrible place, and terrible things happen to all kinds of groups of people. The “meme” that started all this IS a cherry picked reference to people who were wronged (I’m not disputing they were wronged, but so were… insert any other group of people here). Throughout history, most civilizations are founded on the conquering of another. As horrible as that is, it’s a fact. And after the fact, many of the remaining conqured are treated horribly. Also a fact.\n
          \n
          Lay out some real numbers, cite an authoritative source (sources) and then we can talk. Until then, I hope the best for you and really wish we could get past this bickering bullshit. Life is too short, and trying to pin the sins of one’s father on the current generation isn’t solving shit. Work toward bettering peoples lives without having to exact revenge from people who didn’t have fuck all to do with it.
          """
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          date: 2023-10-11 17:56:07.0 +02:00
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2113 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "And it’s written by a person, with an agenda and bias just like everyone else. Have a tough time taking anything seriously from someone affiliated with Ward Churchill."
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          date: 2023-10-11 21:46:08.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 41891
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "Citing one book by someone with a clear agenda isn’t a good look either. You picked the fight, feel free to drop it at your leisure."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-10-11 22:01:33.0 +02:00
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        -id: 41925
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          date: 2023-10-11 22:01:33.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41925
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "I agree with your points, and yes it’s a better perspective, however, that’s not the world we’re living in. There are some who are hell bent on wiping out continents of people due to any number of reasons ranging from beliefs to the exploitation of natural resources merely for financial gain. I really wish we did live in a world where the word “nuclear” invoked thoughts of clean(er), abundant and cheaper energy vs it invoking dread at the prospect of total annihilation."
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works"
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          date: 2023-10-11 13:43:35.0 +02:00
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2254
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: """
          Oh wait, my fault. I was responding to your comment “**We are still here**”\n
          \n
          Wasn’t sure which part of my anaolgy you weren’t getting. Now we can peacefully argue about that instead.\n
          \n
          **EDITED FOR TYPO
          """
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
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          date: 2023-10-12 21:23:04.0 +02:00
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      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2189
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        +body: """
          You don’t have to apologize to me. If he’s someone who would collaborate with Ward Churchill, he’s got a clear agenda. My source for that was looking him up on Wikipedia, as I had no clue who he was. I’m not going to do the effort of sending you a direct link to the article, so feel free to do it yourself. And grant us all the fact that someone who writes a book has an implied agenda to sell the book.\n
          \n
          And every time you start a post with “Source?”, it’s a bad look.
          """
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        -id: 42135
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          date: 2023-10-12 00:17:28.0 +02:00
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      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "While I mostly agree, I never said constant war, but where I will disagree in a sense is, the prospect of total annihilation would have been a factor millennia ago had the technology been there. Pick your era, the Romans, the various Chinese dynasties, the English, etc… if they had the means, they would have likely used it, having zero regard for the impact it would have later, mostly due to a poor understanding of the technology. I do believe, at least between “the big three”, meaning the US, Russia and China, nuclear war is an extremely potent deterrent to all out war. It’s the “kids who want to be in the club” that worry me, everyone from NK to Israel. It sucks, but the atomic cat is out of the bag in a world we’re all forced to live in, and the polarization of politics and other bullshit only work to drive that wedge deeper and push us closer to… bad shit."
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          "@ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works"
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      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: """
          As I’m too stupid and it’s to early for me to do these inline…\n
          \n
          Your 1st point, here’s one, had to scroll about 1/8 down the page for. Granted it doesn’t explicitly say it was “okay”, the point stands:\n
          \n
          > “China/Russia/Europe are largely inhabited by people whose ancestry traces back 1000s of years to the same region. That’s very different from North America, where most natives where killed (either through disease or “policy”).\n
          \n
          > That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), but it’s still very different.”\n
          \n
          As you also wanted to be pointed to a source for genocides on the same or larger scale throughout history, allow me to search Wikipedia for you:\n
          \n
          [en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides)\n
          \n
          As to point 3, who exactly determines who is responsible and who will benefit from this paln to raise up America’s indigenous population to their proper station? Are 1st generation immigrants from Ghana going to be required to pay up? How about Natives who’s ancestry dates back to a tribe that exterminated another tribe? Surely that should also qualify as genocide?\n
          \n
          And as to point 4, we, in the west, as I did point out I was American, are in a (**relatively**) peaceful time, which implies that throughout history it has not been, but I guess I need to spell it out for some people.\n
          \n
          At the end of the day, you’re not looking to be enlightened or to learn anything, your post was directed to completely discount my points, or to “*troll*” I will admit I was getting heated reading some of the off the wall bullshit I was seeing, but superlatives aside, I stand by everything I’ve posted. I apologize if you TRULY didn’t know about other genocides, or if your worldview has jaded you to the point where you don’t initially see posts that clearly illustrate what I said, at least in the abstract, and you took the time to go back and reread them and allow it to sink in.\n
          \n
          Feel free to pick apart this post, too. Nothing is more entertaining in a meme thread than for 2 idiots, myself included, to argue about genocide.🙂
          """
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697026225 {#2036
          date: 2023-10-11 14:10:25.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 41323
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2204
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2200 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +body: "Oversimplifing an empire being overthrown. Seems legit."
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2023-10-12 18:39:26.0 +02:00
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        +body: "It’ll be a while before I can read further but I do intend to read all of it. In my biased opinion so far, i reads like a propaganda piece, the words seleceted in some of the passages are used to elicit a response, but maybe I’ll see differently as I continue. I do have a question, when you say “genocide”, are you also including open conflicts? It’s my understanding of the word that it would not, but I want to make sure, especially when numbers are involved, that we’re using the same metrics."
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      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
      16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2034
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        +body: "You too buddy! Would enjoy having rational conversations, even note elsewhere in this thread that I’m taking the time to read American Holocaust, as I told myself “why should I ask someone to do something I’m not willing to do myself?” Granted, being close to 50 years old, it likely won’t change my mind, but I reason that if I do read this book, maybe I can better understand other’s worldview, and maybe, just maybe we can have civil conversations instead of the stupid fucking bickering that’s been going on in a… wait for it… meme thread!"
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
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        +body: "Oh, I stand corrected. A link to a Google doc. Should probably submit that to the Wikipedia article I linked as clearly thier information is flawed. You win an internet today."
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     …2
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  +body: """
    People. On a land mass. Wiped out. People. On a land mass. Wiped out.\n
    \n
    Yeah, I guess I see your point.
    """
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2196
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "Explain. How is it a false equivalent? Romans controlled the city / region for over a thousand years and were later conqured, and their land stolen, to use the vernacular of this thread."
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        +body: "So by that logic, the Turks should give Constantinople back to the Romans?"
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        +body: """
          Clever.\n
          \n
          I’m going through the sourced materials in the American Holocaust book, (great title, by the way! not divisive at all!), and considering the sources, it’s pretty obvious Stannard has an agenda, he’s a “cultural materialist”, an offshoot of cultural Marxism. But you knew that, you just didn’t think I’d look 😉\n
          \n
          Anyway, with as far as I’ve gotten, I can surmise the sources, the majority of them at least, point to textbooks published by “Berkley; University of California press”. Seems a lot of anti-American sentiment comes out of Berkley. Just to appease my curiosity, I’m going to look deeper into this fellow, who, funny enough, cites his own works as well. That’s pretty douchey
          """
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2349
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        +body: """
          Ah, the internet…\n
          \n
          The phrase “That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), **but it’s still very different**” effectively translates to “Even though this happened, this is worse”.\n
          \n
          If you bothered to look at that list, you’ll note the mention of the California Genocide of 1846. Reported casualties between 9,492 and 16,094, with other estimates as high as 120,000. Absolutely fucking horrible and a black mark on American history indeed. However, there are 31 other genocides on that list that are higher in number, with three of those even happening prior to California-\n
          \n
          Dzungam 1755, 480,000-600,000 Taino 1492, 68,000-968,000 Albigensian 1209, 200,000-1,000,000\n
          \n
          I guess it depends on how you define “genocide”, but since Wikipedia is generally using the accepted definition, I feel pretty safe in going with what they say.\n
          \n
          And I did lay out proof, you’re just too caught up in whatever ideology to see it. Feel free to rebut, down vote, cry or whatever makes you feel better, but my point was the world is a horrible place, and terrible things happen to all kinds of groups of people. The “meme” that started all this IS a cherry picked reference to people who were wronged (I’m not disputing they were wronged, but so were… insert any other group of people here). Throughout history, most civilizations are founded on the conquering of another. As horrible as that is, it’s a fact. And after the fact, many of the remaining conqured are treated horribly. Also a fact.\n
          \n
          Lay out some real numbers, cite an authoritative source (sources) and then we can talk. Until then, I hope the best for you and really wish we could get past this bickering bullshit. Life is too short, and trying to pin the sins of one’s father on the current generation isn’t solving shit. Work toward bettering peoples lives without having to exact revenge from people who didn’t have fuck all to do with it.
          """
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        +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/comment/4318059"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697039767 {#2344
          date: 2023-10-11 17:56:07.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41589
      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2113 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "And it’s written by a person, with an agenda and bias just like everyone else. Have a tough time taking anything seriously from someone affiliated with Ward Churchill."
        +lang: "en"
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
        ]
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          date: 2023-10-11 21:46:08.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41891
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2224 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "Citing one book by someone with a clear agenda isn’t a good look either. You picked the fight, feel free to drop it at your leisure."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-10-11 22:01:33.0 +02:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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        -id: 41925
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          date: 2023-10-11 22:01:33.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41925
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "I agree with your points, and yes it’s a better perspective, however, that’s not the world we’re living in. There are some who are hell bent on wiping out continents of people due to any number of reasons ranging from beliefs to the exploitation of natural resources merely for financial gain. I really wish we did live in a world where the word “nuclear” invoked thoughts of clean(er), abundant and cheaper energy vs it invoking dread at the prospect of total annihilation."
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          date: 2023-10-11 13:43:35.0 +02:00
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works"
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          date: 2023-10-11 13:43:35.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 41306
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2254
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: """
          Oh wait, my fault. I was responding to your comment “**We are still here**”\n
          \n
          Wasn’t sure which part of my anaolgy you weren’t getting. Now we can peacefully argue about that instead.\n
          \n
          **EDITED FOR TYPO
          """
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
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          date: 2023-10-12 21:23:04.0 +02:00
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          date: 2023-10-12 20:52:28.0 +02:00
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      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2189
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        +body: """
          You don’t have to apologize to me. If he’s someone who would collaborate with Ward Churchill, he’s got a clear agenda. My source for that was looking him up on Wikipedia, as I had no clue who he was. I’m not going to do the effort of sending you a direct link to the article, so feel free to do it yourself. And grant us all the fact that someone who writes a book has an implied agenda to sell the book.\n
          \n
          And every time you start a post with “Source?”, it’s a bad look.
          """
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          date: 2023-10-12 00:17:28.0 +02:00
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      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "While I mostly agree, I never said constant war, but where I will disagree in a sense is, the prospect of total annihilation would have been a factor millennia ago had the technology been there. Pick your era, the Romans, the various Chinese dynasties, the English, etc… if they had the means, they would have likely used it, having zero regard for the impact it would have later, mostly due to a poor understanding of the technology. I do believe, at least between “the big three”, meaning the US, Russia and China, nuclear war is an extremely potent deterrent to all out war. It’s the “kids who want to be in the club” that worry me, everyone from NK to Israel. It sucks, but the atomic cat is out of the bag in a world we’re all forced to live in, and the polarization of politics and other bullshit only work to drive that wedge deeper and push us closer to… bad shit."
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      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: """
          As I’m too stupid and it’s to early for me to do these inline…\n
          \n
          Your 1st point, here’s one, had to scroll about 1/8 down the page for. Granted it doesn’t explicitly say it was “okay”, the point stands:\n
          \n
          > “China/Russia/Europe are largely inhabited by people whose ancestry traces back 1000s of years to the same region. That’s very different from North America, where most natives where killed (either through disease or “policy”).\n
          \n
          > That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), but it’s still very different.”\n
          \n
          As you also wanted to be pointed to a source for genocides on the same or larger scale throughout history, allow me to search Wikipedia for you:\n
          \n
          [en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides)\n
          \n
          As to point 3, who exactly determines who is responsible and who will benefit from this paln to raise up America’s indigenous population to their proper station? Are 1st generation immigrants from Ghana going to be required to pay up? How about Natives who’s ancestry dates back to a tribe that exterminated another tribe? Surely that should also qualify as genocide?\n
          \n
          And as to point 4, we, in the west, as I did point out I was American, are in a (**relatively**) peaceful time, which implies that throughout history it has not been, but I guess I need to spell it out for some people.\n
          \n
          At the end of the day, you’re not looking to be enlightened or to learn anything, your post was directed to completely discount my points, or to “*troll*” I will admit I was getting heated reading some of the off the wall bullshit I was seeing, but superlatives aside, I stand by everything I’ve posted. I apologize if you TRULY didn’t know about other genocides, or if your worldview has jaded you to the point where you don’t initially see posts that clearly illustrate what I said, at least in the abstract, and you took the time to go back and reread them and allow it to sink in.\n
          \n
          Feel free to pick apart this post, too. Nothing is more entertaining in a meme thread than for 2 idiots, myself included, to argue about genocide.🙂
          """
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          date: 2023-10-11 14:10:25.0 +02:00
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2204
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2200 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +body: "Oversimplifing an empire being overthrown. Seems legit."
        +lang: "en"
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          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
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        -bodyTs: "'empir':3 'legit':7 'oversimplif':1 'overthrown':5 'seem':6"
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          date: 2023-10-12 18:39:26.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 43459
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2281
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
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        +body: "It’ll be a while before I can read further but I do intend to read all of it. In my biased opinion so far, i reads like a propaganda piece, the words seleceted in some of the passages are used to elicit a response, but maybe I’ll see differently as I continue. I do have a question, when you say “genocide”, are you also including open conflicts? It’s my understanding of the word that it would not, but I want to make sure, especially when numbers are involved, that we’re using the same metrics."
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        -id: 43093
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          date: 2023-10-12 15:46:08.0 +02:00
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        +body: """
          People. On a land mass. Wiped out. People. On a land mass. Wiped out.\n
          \n
          Yeah, I guess I see your point.
          """
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
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        +body: "You too buddy! Would enjoy having rational conversations, even note elsewhere in this thread that I’m taking the time to read American Holocaust, as I told myself “why should I ask someone to do something I’m not willing to do myself?” Granted, being close to 50 years old, it likely won’t change my mind, but I reason that if I do read this book, maybe I can better understand other’s worldview, and maybe, just maybe we can have civil conversations instead of the stupid fucking bickering that’s been going on in a… wait for it… meme thread!"
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
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        +body: "Oh, I stand corrected. A link to a Google doc. Should probably submit that to the Wikipedia article I linked as clearly thier information is flawed. You win an internet today."
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      date: 2023-10-09 13:23:41.0 +02:00
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     …2
  }
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  +body: """
    For fucks sake… 1st off, whether or not this qualifies as a “meme”, it doesn’t fit the accepted norm of what most people expect to see when they click on “memes”\n
    \n
    Secondly, and this may sting a little, but peace as we know it is a relatively new thing in world history. I’ve seen a multitude of other comments here proclaiming all those other genocides were okay because they were thousands of years ago. It’s that “in my lifetime” mentality that just fucking grinds my gears. Through thousands of years of history, one genocide is cherry picked and held up as the worst ever, and the citizens who"benefitted" from it are supposed to pick up the tab? My ancestors weren’t Spanish or English, and my family has been here for about 130 years having come from Germany in 1890. How much of the tab am I supposed to pick up?\n
    \n
    Fact of the matter is, the only constant in human history is war. We’re in a (relatively) peaceful era now, and that’s taking into account Ukraine/Russia, Israel/Palestine, and probably another 20 or 30 wars I’m not up to speed on because I’m American and our media doesn’t seem to actually inform us on world events from countries we don’t buy shit from.
    """
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410
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    +slug: "History"
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2196
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "Explain. How is it a false equivalent? Romans controlled the city / region for over a thousand years and were later conqured, and their land stolen, to use the vernacular of this thread."
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2324
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        +body: "So by that logic, the Turks should give Constantinople back to the Romans?"
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        +body: """
          Clever.\n
          \n
          I’m going through the sourced materials in the American Holocaust book, (great title, by the way! not divisive at all!), and considering the sources, it’s pretty obvious Stannard has an agenda, he’s a “cultural materialist”, an offshoot of cultural Marxism. But you knew that, you just didn’t think I’d look 😉\n
          \n
          Anyway, with as far as I’ve gotten, I can surmise the sources, the majority of them at least, point to textbooks published by “Berkley; University of California press”. Seems a lot of anti-American sentiment comes out of Berkley. Just to appease my curiosity, I’m going to look deeper into this fellow, who, funny enough, cites his own works as well. That’s pretty douchey
          """
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2349
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        +body: """
          Ah, the internet…\n
          \n
          The phrase “That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), **but it’s still very different**” effectively translates to “Even though this happened, this is worse”.\n
          \n
          If you bothered to look at that list, you’ll note the mention of the California Genocide of 1846. Reported casualties between 9,492 and 16,094, with other estimates as high as 120,000. Absolutely fucking horrible and a black mark on American history indeed. However, there are 31 other genocides on that list that are higher in number, with three of those even happening prior to California-\n
          \n
          Dzungam 1755, 480,000-600,000 Taino 1492, 68,000-968,000 Albigensian 1209, 200,000-1,000,000\n
          \n
          I guess it depends on how you define “genocide”, but since Wikipedia is generally using the accepted definition, I feel pretty safe in going with what they say.\n
          \n
          And I did lay out proof, you’re just too caught up in whatever ideology to see it. Feel free to rebut, down vote, cry or whatever makes you feel better, but my point was the world is a horrible place, and terrible things happen to all kinds of groups of people. The “meme” that started all this IS a cherry picked reference to people who were wronged (I’m not disputing they were wronged, but so were… insert any other group of people here). Throughout history, most civilizations are founded on the conquering of another. As horrible as that is, it’s a fact. And after the fact, many of the remaining conqured are treated horribly. Also a fact.\n
          \n
          Lay out some real numbers, cite an authoritative source (sources) and then we can talk. Until then, I hope the best for you and really wish we could get past this bickering bullshit. Life is too short, and trying to pin the sins of one’s father on the current generation isn’t solving shit. Work toward bettering peoples lives without having to exact revenge from people who didn’t have fuck all to do with it.
          """
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          date: 2023-10-11 17:56:07.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41589
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2113 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "And it’s written by a person, with an agenda and bias just like everyone else. Have a tough time taking anything seriously from someone affiliated with Ward Churchill."
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2023-10-11 21:46:08.0 +02:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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          date: 2023-10-11 21:46:08.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41891
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2224 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "Citing one book by someone with a clear agenda isn’t a good look either. You picked the fight, feel free to drop it at your leisure."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-10-11 22:01:33.0 +02:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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        -id: 41925
        -bodyTs: "'agenda':9 'book':3 'cite':1 'clear':8 'drop':23 'either':15 'feel':20 'fight':19 'free':21 'good':13 'isn':10 'leisur':27 'look':14 'one':2 'pick':17 'someon':5"
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          date: 2023-10-11 22:01:33.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41925
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "I agree with your points, and yes it’s a better perspective, however, that’s not the world we’re living in. There are some who are hell bent on wiping out continents of people due to any number of reasons ranging from beliefs to the exploitation of natural resources merely for financial gain. I really wish we did live in a world where the word “nuclear” invoked thoughts of clean(er), abundant and cheaper energy vs it invoking dread at the prospect of total annihilation."
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works"
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          date: 2023-10-11 13:43:35.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 41306
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2254
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +body: """
          Oh wait, my fault. I was responding to your comment “**We are still here**”\n
          \n
          Wasn’t sure which part of my anaolgy you weren’t getting. Now we can peacefully argue about that instead.\n
          \n
          **EDITED FOR TYPO
          """
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          date: 2023-10-12 20:52:28.0 +02:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
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          date: 2023-10-12 21:23:04.0 +02:00
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          date: 2023-10-12 20:52:28.0 +02:00
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      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2189
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: """
          You don’t have to apologize to me. If he’s someone who would collaborate with Ward Churchill, he’s got a clear agenda. My source for that was looking him up on Wikipedia, as I had no clue who he was. I’m not going to do the effort of sending you a direct link to the article, so feel free to do it yourself. And grant us all the fact that someone who writes a book has an implied agenda to sell the book.\n
          \n
          And every time you start a post with “Source?”, it’s a bad look.
          """
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        -id: 42135
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          date: 2023-10-12 00:17:28.0 +02:00
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      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "While I mostly agree, I never said constant war, but where I will disagree in a sense is, the prospect of total annihilation would have been a factor millennia ago had the technology been there. Pick your era, the Romans, the various Chinese dynasties, the English, etc… if they had the means, they would have likely used it, having zero regard for the impact it would have later, mostly due to a poor understanding of the technology. I do believe, at least between “the big three”, meaning the US, Russia and China, nuclear war is an extremely potent deterrent to all out war. It’s the “kids who want to be in the club” that worry me, everyone from NK to Israel. It sucks, but the atomic cat is out of the bag in a world we’re all forced to live in, and the polarization of politics and other bullshit only work to drive that wedge deeper and push us closer to… bad shit."
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          "@ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: """
          As I’m too stupid and it’s to early for me to do these inline…\n
          \n
          Your 1st point, here’s one, had to scroll about 1/8 down the page for. Granted it doesn’t explicitly say it was “okay”, the point stands:\n
          \n
          > “China/Russia/Europe are largely inhabited by people whose ancestry traces back 1000s of years to the same region. That’s very different from North America, where most natives where killed (either through disease or “policy”).\n
          \n
          > That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), but it’s still very different.”\n
          \n
          As you also wanted to be pointed to a source for genocides on the same or larger scale throughout history, allow me to search Wikipedia for you:\n
          \n
          [en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides)\n
          \n
          As to point 3, who exactly determines who is responsible and who will benefit from this paln to raise up America’s indigenous population to their proper station? Are 1st generation immigrants from Ghana going to be required to pay up? How about Natives who’s ancestry dates back to a tribe that exterminated another tribe? Surely that should also qualify as genocide?\n
          \n
          And as to point 4, we, in the west, as I did point out I was American, are in a (**relatively**) peaceful time, which implies that throughout history it has not been, but I guess I need to spell it out for some people.\n
          \n
          At the end of the day, you’re not looking to be enlightened or to learn anything, your post was directed to completely discount my points, or to “*troll*” I will admit I was getting heated reading some of the off the wall bullshit I was seeing, but superlatives aside, I stand by everything I’ve posted. I apologize if you TRULY didn’t know about other genocides, or if your worldview has jaded you to the point where you don’t initially see posts that clearly illustrate what I said, at least in the abstract, and you took the time to go back and reread them and allow it to sink in.\n
          \n
          Feel free to pick apart this post, too. Nothing is more entertaining in a meme thread than for 2 idiots, myself included, to argue about genocide.🙂
          """
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          date: 2023-10-11 14:10:25.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 41323
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2204
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2200 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +body: "Oversimplifing an empire being overthrown. Seems legit."
        +lang: "en"
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697128766 {#2209
          date: 2023-10-12 18:39:26.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 43459
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2281
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        +body: "It’ll be a while before I can read further but I do intend to read all of it. In my biased opinion so far, i reads like a propaganda piece, the words seleceted in some of the passages are used to elicit a response, but maybe I’ll see differently as I continue. I do have a question, when you say “genocide”, are you also including open conflicts? It’s my understanding of the word that it would not, but I want to make sure, especially when numbers are involved, that we’re using the same metrics."
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      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2263
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        +body: """
          People. On a land mass. Wiped out. People. On a land mass. Wiped out.\n
          \n
          Yeah, I guess I see your point.
          """
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        +body: "You too buddy! Would enjoy having rational conversations, even note elsewhere in this thread that I’m taking the time to read American Holocaust, as I told myself “why should I ask someone to do something I’m not willing to do myself?” Granted, being close to 50 years old, it likely won’t change my mind, but I reason that if I do read this book, maybe I can better understand other’s worldview, and maybe, just maybe we can have civil conversations instead of the stupid fucking bickering that’s been going on in a… wait for it… meme thread!"
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
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        +body: "Oh, I stand corrected. A link to a Google doc. Should probably submit that to the Wikipedia article I linked as clearly thier information is flawed. You win an internet today."
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      date: 2023-10-09 13:23:41.0 +02:00
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     …2
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    For fucks sake… 1st off, whether or not this qualifies as a “meme”, it doesn’t fit the accepted norm of what most people expect to see when they click on “memes”\n
    \n
    Secondly, and this may sting a little, but peace as we know it is a relatively new thing in world history. I’ve seen a multitude of other comments here proclaiming all those other genocides were okay because they were thousands of years ago. It’s that “in my lifetime” mentality that just fucking grinds my gears. Through thousands of years of history, one genocide is cherry picked and held up as the worst ever, and the citizens who"benefitted" from it are supposed to pick up the tab? My ancestors weren’t Spanish or English, and my family has been here for about 130 years having come from Germany in 1890. How much of the tab am I supposed to pick up?\n
    \n
    Fact of the matter is, the only constant in human history is war. We’re in a (relatively) peaceful era now, and that’s taking into account Ukraine/Russia, Israel/Palestine, and probably another 20 or 30 wars I’m not up to speed on because I’m American and our media doesn’t seem to actually inform us on world events from countries we don’t buy shit from.
    """
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410
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    +slug: "History"
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2196
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "Explain. How is it a false equivalent? Romans controlled the city / region for over a thousand years and were later conqured, and their land stolen, to use the vernacular of this thread."
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2324
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        +body: "So by that logic, the Turks should give Constantinople back to the Romans?"
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        +body: """
          Clever.\n
          \n
          I’m going through the sourced materials in the American Holocaust book, (great title, by the way! not divisive at all!), and considering the sources, it’s pretty obvious Stannard has an agenda, he’s a “cultural materialist”, an offshoot of cultural Marxism. But you knew that, you just didn’t think I’d look 😉\n
          \n
          Anyway, with as far as I’ve gotten, I can surmise the sources, the majority of them at least, point to textbooks published by “Berkley; University of California press”. Seems a lot of anti-American sentiment comes out of Berkley. Just to appease my curiosity, I’m going to look deeper into this fellow, who, funny enough, cites his own works as well. That’s pretty douchey
          """
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2349
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        +body: """
          Ah, the internet…\n
          \n
          The phrase “That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), **but it’s still very different**” effectively translates to “Even though this happened, this is worse”.\n
          \n
          If you bothered to look at that list, you’ll note the mention of the California Genocide of 1846. Reported casualties between 9,492 and 16,094, with other estimates as high as 120,000. Absolutely fucking horrible and a black mark on American history indeed. However, there are 31 other genocides on that list that are higher in number, with three of those even happening prior to California-\n
          \n
          Dzungam 1755, 480,000-600,000 Taino 1492, 68,000-968,000 Albigensian 1209, 200,000-1,000,000\n
          \n
          I guess it depends on how you define “genocide”, but since Wikipedia is generally using the accepted definition, I feel pretty safe in going with what they say.\n
          \n
          And I did lay out proof, you’re just too caught up in whatever ideology to see it. Feel free to rebut, down vote, cry or whatever makes you feel better, but my point was the world is a horrible place, and terrible things happen to all kinds of groups of people. The “meme” that started all this IS a cherry picked reference to people who were wronged (I’m not disputing they were wronged, but so were… insert any other group of people here). Throughout history, most civilizations are founded on the conquering of another. As horrible as that is, it’s a fact. And after the fact, many of the remaining conqured are treated horribly. Also a fact.\n
          \n
          Lay out some real numbers, cite an authoritative source (sources) and then we can talk. Until then, I hope the best for you and really wish we could get past this bickering bullshit. Life is too short, and trying to pin the sins of one’s father on the current generation isn’t solving shit. Work toward bettering peoples lives without having to exact revenge from people who didn’t have fuck all to do with it.
          """
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          date: 2023-10-11 17:56:07.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 41589
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2113 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "And it’s written by a person, with an agenda and bias just like everyone else. Have a tough time taking anything seriously from someone affiliated with Ward Churchill."
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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          date: 2023-10-11 21:46:08.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 41891
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "Citing one book by someone with a clear agenda isn’t a good look either. You picked the fight, feel free to drop it at your leisure."
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2023-10-11 22:01:33.0 +02:00
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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        -id: 41925
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          date: 2023-10-11 22:01:33.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41925
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "I agree with your points, and yes it’s a better perspective, however, that’s not the world we’re living in. There are some who are hell bent on wiping out continents of people due to any number of reasons ranging from beliefs to the exploitation of natural resources merely for financial gain. I really wish we did live in a world where the word “nuclear” invoked thoughts of clean(er), abundant and cheaper energy vs it invoking dread at the prospect of total annihilation."
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works"
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          date: 2023-10-11 13:43:35.0 +02:00
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      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2254
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: """
          Oh wait, my fault. I was responding to your comment “**We are still here**”\n
          \n
          Wasn’t sure which part of my anaolgy you weren’t getting. Now we can peacefully argue about that instead.\n
          \n
          **EDITED FOR TYPO
          """
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          date: 2023-10-12 20:52:28.0 +02:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
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          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
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          date: 2023-10-12 21:23:04.0 +02:00
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      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2189
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        +body: """
          You don’t have to apologize to me. If he’s someone who would collaborate with Ward Churchill, he’s got a clear agenda. My source for that was looking him up on Wikipedia, as I had no clue who he was. I’m not going to do the effort of sending you a direct link to the article, so feel free to do it yourself. And grant us all the fact that someone who writes a book has an implied agenda to sell the book.\n
          \n
          And every time you start a post with “Source?”, it’s a bad look.
          """
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        -id: 42135
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          date: 2023-10-12 00:17:28.0 +02:00
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      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "While I mostly agree, I never said constant war, but where I will disagree in a sense is, the prospect of total annihilation would have been a factor millennia ago had the technology been there. Pick your era, the Romans, the various Chinese dynasties, the English, etc… if they had the means, they would have likely used it, having zero regard for the impact it would have later, mostly due to a poor understanding of the technology. I do believe, at least between “the big three”, meaning the US, Russia and China, nuclear war is an extremely potent deterrent to all out war. It’s the “kids who want to be in the club” that worry me, everyone from NK to Israel. It sucks, but the atomic cat is out of the bag in a world we’re all forced to live in, and the polarization of politics and other bullshit only work to drive that wedge deeper and push us closer to… bad shit."
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          "@ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works"
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      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: """
          As I’m too stupid and it’s to early for me to do these inline…\n
          \n
          Your 1st point, here’s one, had to scroll about 1/8 down the page for. Granted it doesn’t explicitly say it was “okay”, the point stands:\n
          \n
          > “China/Russia/Europe are largely inhabited by people whose ancestry traces back 1000s of years to the same region. That’s very different from North America, where most natives where killed (either through disease or “policy”).\n
          \n
          > That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), but it’s still very different.”\n
          \n
          As you also wanted to be pointed to a source for genocides on the same or larger scale throughout history, allow me to search Wikipedia for you:\n
          \n
          [en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides)\n
          \n
          As to point 3, who exactly determines who is responsible and who will benefit from this paln to raise up America’s indigenous population to their proper station? Are 1st generation immigrants from Ghana going to be required to pay up? How about Natives who’s ancestry dates back to a tribe that exterminated another tribe? Surely that should also qualify as genocide?\n
          \n
          And as to point 4, we, in the west, as I did point out I was American, are in a (**relatively**) peaceful time, which implies that throughout history it has not been, but I guess I need to spell it out for some people.\n
          \n
          At the end of the day, you’re not looking to be enlightened or to learn anything, your post was directed to completely discount my points, or to “*troll*” I will admit I was getting heated reading some of the off the wall bullshit I was seeing, but superlatives aside, I stand by everything I’ve posted. I apologize if you TRULY didn’t know about other genocides, or if your worldview has jaded you to the point where you don’t initially see posts that clearly illustrate what I said, at least in the abstract, and you took the time to go back and reread them and allow it to sink in.\n
          \n
          Feel free to pick apart this post, too. Nothing is more entertaining in a meme thread than for 2 idiots, myself included, to argue about genocide.🙂
          """
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          date: 2023-10-11 14:10:25.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 41323
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2204
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "Oversimplifing an empire being overthrown. Seems legit."
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2023-10-12 18:39:26.0 +02:00
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
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          date: 2023-10-12 18:39:26.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 43459
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2281
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        +body: "It’ll be a while before I can read further but I do intend to read all of it. In my biased opinion so far, i reads like a propaganda piece, the words seleceted in some of the passages are used to elicit a response, but maybe I’ll see differently as I continue. I do have a question, when you say “genocide”, are you also including open conflicts? It’s my understanding of the word that it would not, but I want to make sure, especially when numbers are involved, that we’re using the same metrics."
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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        -bodyTs: "'also':66 'bias':22 'conflict':69 'continu':54 'differ':51 'elicit':43 'especi':87 'far':25 'genocid':63 'includ':67 'intend':14 'involv':91 'like':28 'll':2,49 'make':85 'mayb':47 'metric':98 'number':89 'open':68 'opinion':23 'passag':39 'piec':31 'propaganda':30 'question':59 're':94 'read':9,16,27 'respons':45 'say':62 'see':50 'selecet':34 'sure':86 'understand':73 'use':41,95 'want':83 'word':33,76 'would':79"
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          date: 2023-10-12 15:46:08.0 +02:00
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      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2263
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
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        +body: """
          People. On a land mass. Wiped out. People. On a land mass. Wiped out.\n
          \n
          Yeah, I guess I see your point.
          """
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          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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          date: 2023-10-12 19:25:03.0 +02:00
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      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
      16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2034
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        +body: "You too buddy! Would enjoy having rational conversations, even note elsewhere in this thread that I’m taking the time to read American Holocaust, as I told myself “why should I ask someone to do something I’m not willing to do myself?” Granted, being close to 50 years old, it likely won’t change my mind, but I reason that if I do read this book, maybe I can better understand other’s worldview, and maybe, just maybe we can have civil conversations instead of the stupid fucking bickering that’s been going on in a… wait for it… meme thread!"
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
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        +body: "Oh, I stand corrected. A link to a Google doc. Should probably submit that to the Wikipedia article I linked as clearly thier information is flawed. You win an internet today."
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      date: 2023-10-09 13:23:41.0 +02:00
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     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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    For fucks sake… 1st off, whether or not this qualifies as a “meme”, it doesn’t fit the accepted norm of what most people expect to see when they click on “memes”\n
    \n
    Secondly, and this may sting a little, but peace as we know it is a relatively new thing in world history. I’ve seen a multitude of other comments here proclaiming all those other genocides were okay because they were thousands of years ago. It’s that “in my lifetime” mentality that just fucking grinds my gears. Through thousands of years of history, one genocide is cherry picked and held up as the worst ever, and the citizens who"benefitted" from it are supposed to pick up the tab? My ancestors weren’t Spanish or English, and my family has been here for about 130 years having come from Germany in 1890. How much of the tab am I supposed to pick up?\n
    \n
    Fact of the matter is, the only constant in human history is war. We’re in a (relatively) peaceful era now, and that’s taking into account Ukraine/Russia, Israel/Palestine, and probably another 20 or 30 wars I’m not up to speed on because I’m American and our media doesn’t seem to actually inform us on world events from countries we don’t buy shit from.
    """
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2034
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    +slug: "History"
    +title: "History"
    +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/be2234f5-922c-44d7-a193-c11380bdfa00.jpeg"
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    +children: [
      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2196
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +body: "Explain. How is it a false equivalent? Romans controlled the city / region for over a thousand years and were later conqured, and their land stolen, to use the vernacular of this thread."
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
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        -id: 43097
        -bodyTs: "'citi':11 'conqur':21 'control':9 'equival':7 'explain':1 'fals':6 'land':24 'later':20 'region':12 'roman':8 'stolen':25 'thousand':16 'thread':32 'use':27 'vernacular':29 'year':17"
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2324
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        +body: "So by that logic, the Turks should give Constantinople back to the Romans?"
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      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2307
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          +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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            For fucks sake… 1st off, whether or not this qualifies as a “meme”, it doesn’t fit the accepted norm of what most people expect to see when they click on “memes”\n
            \n
            Secondly, and this may sting a little, but peace as we know it is a relatively new thing in world history. I’ve seen a multitude of other comments here proclaiming all those other genocides were okay because they were thousands of years ago. It’s that “in my lifetime” mentality that just fucking grinds my gears. Through thousands of years of history, one genocide is cherry picked and held up as the worst ever, and the citizens who"benefitted" from it are supposed to pick up the tab? My ancestors weren’t Spanish or English, and my family has been here for about 130 years having come from Germany in 1890. How much of the tab am I supposed to pick up?\n
            \n
            Fact of the matter is, the only constant in human history is war. We’re in a (relatively) peaceful era now, and that’s taking into account Ukraine/Russia, Israel/Palestine, and probably another 20 or 30 wars I’m not up to speed on because I’m American and our media doesn’t seem to actually inform us on world events from countries we don’t buy shit from.
            """
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        +body: """
          Clever.\n
          \n
          I’m going through the sourced materials in the American Holocaust book, (great title, by the way! not divisive at all!), and considering the sources, it’s pretty obvious Stannard has an agenda, he’s a “cultural materialist”, an offshoot of cultural Marxism. But you knew that, you just didn’t think I’d look 😉\n
          \n
          Anyway, with as far as I’ve gotten, I can surmise the sources, the majority of them at least, point to textbooks published by “Berkley; University of California press”. Seems a lot of anti-American sentiment comes out of Berkley. Just to appease my curiosity, I’m going to look deeper into this fellow, who, funny enough, cites his own works as well. That’s pretty douchey
          """
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2349
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: """
          Ah, the internet…\n
          \n
          The phrase “That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), **but it’s still very different**” effectively translates to “Even though this happened, this is worse”.\n
          \n
          If you bothered to look at that list, you’ll note the mention of the California Genocide of 1846. Reported casualties between 9,492 and 16,094, with other estimates as high as 120,000. Absolutely fucking horrible and a black mark on American history indeed. However, there are 31 other genocides on that list that are higher in number, with three of those even happening prior to California-\n
          \n
          Dzungam 1755, 480,000-600,000 Taino 1492, 68,000-968,000 Albigensian 1209, 200,000-1,000,000\n
          \n
          I guess it depends on how you define “genocide”, but since Wikipedia is generally using the accepted definition, I feel pretty safe in going with what they say.\n
          \n
          And I did lay out proof, you’re just too caught up in whatever ideology to see it. Feel free to rebut, down vote, cry or whatever makes you feel better, but my point was the world is a horrible place, and terrible things happen to all kinds of groups of people. The “meme” that started all this IS a cherry picked reference to people who were wronged (I’m not disputing they were wronged, but so were… insert any other group of people here). Throughout history, most civilizations are founded on the conquering of another. As horrible as that is, it’s a fact. And after the fact, many of the remaining conqured are treated horribly. Also a fact.\n
          \n
          Lay out some real numbers, cite an authoritative source (sources) and then we can talk. Until then, I hope the best for you and really wish we could get past this bickering bullshit. Life is too short, and trying to pin the sins of one’s father on the current generation isn’t solving shit. Work toward bettering peoples lives without having to exact revenge from people who didn’t have fuck all to do with it.
          """
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "And it’s written by a person, with an agenda and bias just like everyone else. Have a tough time taking anything seriously from someone affiliated with Ward Churchill."
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      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "Citing one book by someone with a clear agenda isn’t a good look either. You picked the fight, feel free to drop it at your leisure."
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2023-10-11 22:01:33.0 +02:00
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      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "I agree with your points, and yes it’s a better perspective, however, that’s not the world we’re living in. There are some who are hell bent on wiping out continents of people due to any number of reasons ranging from beliefs to the exploitation of natural resources merely for financial gain. I really wish we did live in a world where the word “nuclear” invoked thoughts of clean(er), abundant and cheaper energy vs it invoking dread at the prospect of total annihilation."
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2254
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        +body: """
          Oh wait, my fault. I was responding to your comment “**We are still here**”\n
          \n
          Wasn’t sure which part of my anaolgy you weren’t getting. Now we can peacefully argue about that instead.\n
          \n
          **EDITED FOR TYPO
          """
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      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2189
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        +body: """
          You don’t have to apologize to me. If he’s someone who would collaborate with Ward Churchill, he’s got a clear agenda. My source for that was looking him up on Wikipedia, as I had no clue who he was. I’m not going to do the effort of sending you a direct link to the article, so feel free to do it yourself. And grant us all the fact that someone who writes a book has an implied agenda to sell the book.\n
          \n
          And every time you start a post with “Source?”, it’s a bad look.
          """
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      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383
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        +body: "While I mostly agree, I never said constant war, but where I will disagree in a sense is, the prospect of total annihilation would have been a factor millennia ago had the technology been there. Pick your era, the Romans, the various Chinese dynasties, the English, etc… if they had the means, they would have likely used it, having zero regard for the impact it would have later, mostly due to a poor understanding of the technology. I do believe, at least between “the big three”, meaning the US, Russia and China, nuclear war is an extremely potent deterrent to all out war. It’s the “kids who want to be in the club” that worry me, everyone from NK to Israel. It sucks, but the atomic cat is out of the bag in a world we’re all forced to live in, and the polarization of politics and other bullshit only work to drive that wedge deeper and push us closer to… bad shit."
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      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037
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        +body: """
          As I’m too stupid and it’s to early for me to do these inline…\n
          \n
          Your 1st point, here’s one, had to scroll about 1/8 down the page for. Granted it doesn’t explicitly say it was “okay”, the point stands:\n
          \n
          > “China/Russia/Europe are largely inhabited by people whose ancestry traces back 1000s of years to the same region. That’s very different from North America, where most natives where killed (either through disease or “policy”).\n
          \n
          > That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), but it’s still very different.”\n
          \n
          As you also wanted to be pointed to a source for genocides on the same or larger scale throughout history, allow me to search Wikipedia for you:\n
          \n
          [en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides)\n
          \n
          As to point 3, who exactly determines who is responsible and who will benefit from this paln to raise up America’s indigenous population to their proper station? Are 1st generation immigrants from Ghana going to be required to pay up? How about Natives who’s ancestry dates back to a tribe that exterminated another tribe? Surely that should also qualify as genocide?\n
          \n
          And as to point 4, we, in the west, as I did point out I was American, are in a (**relatively**) peaceful time, which implies that throughout history it has not been, but I guess I need to spell it out for some people.\n
          \n
          At the end of the day, you’re not looking to be enlightened or to learn anything, your post was directed to completely discount my points, or to “*troll*” I will admit I was getting heated reading some of the off the wall bullshit I was seeing, but superlatives aside, I stand by everything I’ve posted. I apologize if you TRULY didn’t know about other genocides, or if your worldview has jaded you to the point where you don’t initially see posts that clearly illustrate what I said, at least in the abstract, and you took the time to go back and reread them and allow it to sink in.\n
          \n
          Feel free to pick apart this post, too. Nothing is more entertaining in a meme thread than for 2 idiots, myself included, to argue about genocide.🙂
          """
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          date: 2023-10-11 14:10:25.0 +02:00
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2204
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        +body: "Oversimplifing an empire being overthrown. Seems legit."
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          date: 2023-10-12 18:39:26.0 +02:00
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2281
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        +body: "It’ll be a while before I can read further but I do intend to read all of it. In my biased opinion so far, i reads like a propaganda piece, the words seleceted in some of the passages are used to elicit a response, but maybe I’ll see differently as I continue. I do have a question, when you say “genocide”, are you also including open conflicts? It’s my understanding of the word that it would not, but I want to make sure, especially when numbers are involved, that we’re using the same metrics."
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      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2263
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        +body: """
          People. On a land mass. Wiped out. People. On a land mass. Wiped out.\n
          \n
          Yeah, I guess I see your point.
          """
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      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
      16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2034}
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
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        +body: "Oh, I stand corrected. A link to a Google doc. Should probably submit that to the Wikipedia article I linked as clearly thier information is flawed. You win an internet today."
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      date: 2023-10-09 13:23:41.0 +02:00
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     …2
  }
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  +body: "You too buddy! Would enjoy having rational conversations, even note elsewhere in this thread that I’m taking the time to read American Holocaust, as I told myself “why should I ask someone to do something I’m not willing to do myself?” Granted, being close to 50 years old, it likely won’t change my mind, but I reason that if I do read this book, maybe I can better understand other’s worldview, and maybe, just maybe we can have civil conversations instead of the stupid fucking bickering that’s been going on in a… wait for it… meme thread!"
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2034
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    +slug: "History"
    +title: "History"
    +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/be2234f5-922c-44d7-a193-c11380bdfa00.jpeg"
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    +children: [
      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2196
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
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        +body: "Explain. How is it a false equivalent? Romans controlled the city / region for over a thousand years and were later conqured, and their land stolen, to use the vernacular of this thread."
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2324
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        +body: "So by that logic, the Turks should give Constantinople back to the Romans?"
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      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2307
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          +body: """
            For fucks sake… 1st off, whether or not this qualifies as a “meme”, it doesn’t fit the accepted norm of what most people expect to see when they click on “memes”\n
            \n
            Secondly, and this may sting a little, but peace as we know it is a relatively new thing in world history. I’ve seen a multitude of other comments here proclaiming all those other genocides were okay because they were thousands of years ago. It’s that “in my lifetime” mentality that just fucking grinds my gears. Through thousands of years of history, one genocide is cherry picked and held up as the worst ever, and the citizens who"benefitted" from it are supposed to pick up the tab? My ancestors weren’t Spanish or English, and my family has been here for about 130 years having come from Germany in 1890. How much of the tab am I supposed to pick up?\n
            \n
            Fact of the matter is, the only constant in human history is war. We’re in a (relatively) peaceful era now, and that’s taking into account Ukraine/Russia, Israel/Palestine, and probably another 20 or 30 wars I’m not up to speed on because I’m American and our media doesn’t seem to actually inform us on world events from countries we don’t buy shit from.
            """
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        +body: """
          Clever.\n
          \n
          I’m going through the sourced materials in the American Holocaust book, (great title, by the way! not divisive at all!), and considering the sources, it’s pretty obvious Stannard has an agenda, he’s a “cultural materialist”, an offshoot of cultural Marxism. But you knew that, you just didn’t think I’d look 😉\n
          \n
          Anyway, with as far as I’ve gotten, I can surmise the sources, the majority of them at least, point to textbooks published by “Berkley; University of California press”. Seems a lot of anti-American sentiment comes out of Berkley. Just to appease my curiosity, I’m going to look deeper into this fellow, who, funny enough, cites his own works as well. That’s pretty douchey
          """
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2349
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        +body: """
          Ah, the internet…\n
          \n
          The phrase “That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), **but it’s still very different**” effectively translates to “Even though this happened, this is worse”.\n
          \n
          If you bothered to look at that list, you’ll note the mention of the California Genocide of 1846. Reported casualties between 9,492 and 16,094, with other estimates as high as 120,000. Absolutely fucking horrible and a black mark on American history indeed. However, there are 31 other genocides on that list that are higher in number, with three of those even happening prior to California-\n
          \n
          Dzungam 1755, 480,000-600,000 Taino 1492, 68,000-968,000 Albigensian 1209, 200,000-1,000,000\n
          \n
          I guess it depends on how you define “genocide”, but since Wikipedia is generally using the accepted definition, I feel pretty safe in going with what they say.\n
          \n
          And I did lay out proof, you’re just too caught up in whatever ideology to see it. Feel free to rebut, down vote, cry or whatever makes you feel better, but my point was the world is a horrible place, and terrible things happen to all kinds of groups of people. The “meme” that started all this IS a cherry picked reference to people who were wronged (I’m not disputing they were wronged, but so were… insert any other group of people here). Throughout history, most civilizations are founded on the conquering of another. As horrible as that is, it’s a fact. And after the fact, many of the remaining conqured are treated horribly. Also a fact.\n
          \n
          Lay out some real numbers, cite an authoritative source (sources) and then we can talk. Until then, I hope the best for you and really wish we could get past this bickering bullshit. Life is too short, and trying to pin the sins of one’s father on the current generation isn’t solving shit. Work toward bettering peoples lives without having to exact revenge from people who didn’t have fuck all to do with it.
          """
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "And it’s written by a person, with an agenda and bias just like everyone else. Have a tough time taking anything seriously from someone affiliated with Ward Churchill."
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      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
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        +body: "Citing one book by someone with a clear agenda isn’t a good look either. You picked the fight, feel free to drop it at your leisure."
        +lang: "en"
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      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "I agree with your points, and yes it’s a better perspective, however, that’s not the world we’re living in. There are some who are hell bent on wiping out continents of people due to any number of reasons ranging from beliefs to the exploitation of natural resources merely for financial gain. I really wish we did live in a world where the word “nuclear” invoked thoughts of clean(er), abundant and cheaper energy vs it invoking dread at the prospect of total annihilation."
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2254
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        +body: """
          Oh wait, my fault. I was responding to your comment “**We are still here**”\n
          \n
          Wasn’t sure which part of my anaolgy you weren’t getting. Now we can peacefully argue about that instead.\n
          \n
          **EDITED FOR TYPO
          """
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      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2189
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          You don’t have to apologize to me. If he’s someone who would collaborate with Ward Churchill, he’s got a clear agenda. My source for that was looking him up on Wikipedia, as I had no clue who he was. I’m not going to do the effort of sending you a direct link to the article, so feel free to do it yourself. And grant us all the fact that someone who writes a book has an implied agenda to sell the book.\n
          \n
          And every time you start a post with “Source?”, it’s a bad look.
          """
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      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383
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        +body: "While I mostly agree, I never said constant war, but where I will disagree in a sense is, the prospect of total annihilation would have been a factor millennia ago had the technology been there. Pick your era, the Romans, the various Chinese dynasties, the English, etc… if they had the means, they would have likely used it, having zero regard for the impact it would have later, mostly due to a poor understanding of the technology. I do believe, at least between “the big three”, meaning the US, Russia and China, nuclear war is an extremely potent deterrent to all out war. It’s the “kids who want to be in the club” that worry me, everyone from NK to Israel. It sucks, but the atomic cat is out of the bag in a world we’re all forced to live in, and the polarization of politics and other bullshit only work to drive that wedge deeper and push us closer to… bad shit."
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      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: """
          As I’m too stupid and it’s to early for me to do these inline…\n
          \n
          Your 1st point, here’s one, had to scroll about 1/8 down the page for. Granted it doesn’t explicitly say it was “okay”, the point stands:\n
          \n
          > “China/Russia/Europe are largely inhabited by people whose ancestry traces back 1000s of years to the same region. That’s very different from North America, where most natives where killed (either through disease or “policy”).\n
          \n
          > That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), but it’s still very different.”\n
          \n
          As you also wanted to be pointed to a source for genocides on the same or larger scale throughout history, allow me to search Wikipedia for you:\n
          \n
          [en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides)\n
          \n
          As to point 3, who exactly determines who is responsible and who will benefit from this paln to raise up America’s indigenous population to their proper station? Are 1st generation immigrants from Ghana going to be required to pay up? How about Natives who’s ancestry dates back to a tribe that exterminated another tribe? Surely that should also qualify as genocide?\n
          \n
          And as to point 4, we, in the west, as I did point out I was American, are in a (**relatively**) peaceful time, which implies that throughout history it has not been, but I guess I need to spell it out for some people.\n
          \n
          At the end of the day, you’re not looking to be enlightened or to learn anything, your post was directed to completely discount my points, or to “*troll*” I will admit I was getting heated reading some of the off the wall bullshit I was seeing, but superlatives aside, I stand by everything I’ve posted. I apologize if you TRULY didn’t know about other genocides, or if your worldview has jaded you to the point where you don’t initially see posts that clearly illustrate what I said, at least in the abstract, and you took the time to go back and reread them and allow it to sink in.\n
          \n
          Feel free to pick apart this post, too. Nothing is more entertaining in a meme thread than for 2 idiots, myself included, to argue about genocide.🙂
          """
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        +body: "Oversimplifing an empire being overthrown. Seems legit."
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        +body: "It’ll be a while before I can read further but I do intend to read all of it. In my biased opinion so far, i reads like a propaganda piece, the words seleceted in some of the passages are used to elicit a response, but maybe I’ll see differently as I continue. I do have a question, when you say “genocide”, are you also including open conflicts? It’s my understanding of the word that it would not, but I want to make sure, especially when numbers are involved, that we’re using the same metrics."
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        +body: """
          People. On a land mass. Wiped out. People. On a land mass. Wiped out.\n
          \n
          Yeah, I guess I see your point.
          """
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      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
      16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2034}
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
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        +body: "Oh, I stand corrected. A link to a Google doc. Should probably submit that to the Wikipedia article I linked as clearly thier information is flawed. You win an internet today."
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     …2
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  +body: "You too buddy! Would enjoy having rational conversations, even note elsewhere in this thread that I’m taking the time to read American Holocaust, as I told myself “why should I ask someone to do something I’m not willing to do myself?” Granted, being close to 50 years old, it likely won’t change my mind, but I reason that if I do read this book, maybe I can better understand other’s worldview, and maybe, just maybe we can have civil conversations instead of the stupid fucking bickering that’s been going on in a… wait for it… meme thread!"
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2034
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2196
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        +body: "Explain. How is it a false equivalent? Romans controlled the city / region for over a thousand years and were later conqured, and their land stolen, to use the vernacular of this thread."
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        +body: "So by that logic, the Turks should give Constantinople back to the Romans?"
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      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2307
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            For fucks sake… 1st off, whether or not this qualifies as a “meme”, it doesn’t fit the accepted norm of what most people expect to see when they click on “memes”\n
            \n
            Secondly, and this may sting a little, but peace as we know it is a relatively new thing in world history. I’ve seen a multitude of other comments here proclaiming all those other genocides were okay because they were thousands of years ago. It’s that “in my lifetime” mentality that just fucking grinds my gears. Through thousands of years of history, one genocide is cherry picked and held up as the worst ever, and the citizens who"benefitted" from it are supposed to pick up the tab? My ancestors weren’t Spanish or English, and my family has been here for about 130 years having come from Germany in 1890. How much of the tab am I supposed to pick up?\n
            \n
            Fact of the matter is, the only constant in human history is war. We’re in a (relatively) peaceful era now, and that’s taking into account Ukraine/Russia, Israel/Palestine, and probably another 20 or 30 wars I’m not up to speed on because I’m American and our media doesn’t seem to actually inform us on world events from countries we don’t buy shit from.
            """
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          -id: 40337
          -bodyTs: "'130':137 '1890':144 '1st':4 '20':188 '30':190 'accept':19 'account':182 'actual':210 'ago':76 'american':202 'ancestor':123 'anoth':187 'benefit':112 'buy':221 'cherri':99 'citizen':110 'click':30 'come':140 'comment':61 'constant':163 'countri':217 'doesn':15,206 'english':128 'era':175 'event':215 'ever':107 'expect':25 'fact':156 'famili':131 'fit':17 'fuck':2,86 'gear':89 'genocid':67,97 'germani':142 'grind':87 'held':102 'histori':53,95,166 'human':165 'inform':211 'israel/palestine':184 'know':44 'lifetim':82 'littl':39 'm':193,201 'matter':159 'may':36 'media':205 'meme':13,32 'mental':83 'much':146 'multitud':58 'new':49 'norm':20 'okay':69 'one':96 'peac':41,174 'peopl':24 'pick':100,118,154 'probabl':186 'proclaim':63 'qualifi':10 're':170 'relat':48,173 'sake':3 'second':33 'see':27 'seem':208 'seen':56 'shit':222 'spanish':126 'speed':197 'sting':37 'suppos':116,152 'tab':121,149 'take':180 'thing':50 'thousand':73,91 'ukraine/russia':183 'us':212 've':55 'war':168,191 'weren':124 'whether':6 'world':52,214 'worst':106 'year':75,93,138"
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          +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1696959938 {#1926
            date: 2023-10-10 19:45:38.0 +02:00
          }
          +"title": 40337
        }
        +body: """
          Clever.\n
          \n
          I’m going through the sourced materials in the American Holocaust book, (great title, by the way! not divisive at all!), and considering the sources, it’s pretty obvious Stannard has an agenda, he’s a “cultural materialist”, an offshoot of cultural Marxism. But you knew that, you just didn’t think I’d look 😉\n
          \n
          Anyway, with as far as I’ve gotten, I can surmise the sources, the majority of them at least, point to textbooks published by “Berkley; University of California press”. Seems a lot of anti-American sentiment comes out of Berkley. Just to appease my curiosity, I’m going to look deeper into this fellow, who, funny enough, cites his own works as well. That’s pretty douchey
          """
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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        -id: 42180
        -bodyTs: "'agenda':34 'american':11,92 'anti':91 'anti-american':90 'anyway':57 'appeas':100 'berkley':81,97 'book':13 'california':84 'cite':115 'clever':1 'come':94 'consid':24 'cultur':38,43 'curios':102 'd':55 'deeper':108 'didn':51 'divis':20 'douchey':124 'enough':114 'far':60 'fellow':111 'funni':113 'go':4,105 'gotten':64 'great':14 'holocaust':12 'knew':47 'least':75 'look':56,107 'lot':88 'm':3,104 'major':71 'marxism':44 'materi':8 'materialist':39 'obvious':30 'offshoot':41 'point':76 'press':85 'pretti':29,123 'publish':79 'seem':86 'sentiment':93 'sourc':7,26,69 'stannard':31 'surmis':67 'textbook':78 'think':53 'titl':15 'univers':82 've':63 'way':18 'well':120 'work':118"
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          date: 2023-10-12 00:53:28.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 42180
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2349
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2042 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: """
          Ah, the internet…\n
          \n
          The phrase “That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), **but it’s still very different**” effectively translates to “Even though this happened, this is worse”.\n
          \n
          If you bothered to look at that list, you’ll note the mention of the California Genocide of 1846. Reported casualties between 9,492 and 16,094, with other estimates as high as 120,000. Absolutely fucking horrible and a black mark on American history indeed. However, there are 31 other genocides on that list that are higher in number, with three of those even happening prior to California-\n
          \n
          Dzungam 1755, 480,000-600,000 Taino 1492, 68,000-968,000 Albigensian 1209, 200,000-1,000,000\n
          \n
          I guess it depends on how you define “genocide”, but since Wikipedia is generally using the accepted definition, I feel pretty safe in going with what they say.\n
          \n
          And I did lay out proof, you’re just too caught up in whatever ideology to see it. Feel free to rebut, down vote, cry or whatever makes you feel better, but my point was the world is a horrible place, and terrible things happen to all kinds of groups of people. The “meme” that started all this IS a cherry picked reference to people who were wronged (I’m not disputing they were wronged, but so were… insert any other group of people here). Throughout history, most civilizations are founded on the conquering of another. As horrible as that is, it’s a fact. And after the fact, many of the remaining conqured are treated horribly. Also a fact.\n
          \n
          Lay out some real numbers, cite an authoritative source (sources) and then we can talk. Until then, I hope the best for you and really wish we could get past this bickering bullshit. Life is too short, and trying to pin the sins of one’s father on the current generation isn’t solving shit. Work toward bettering peoples lives without having to exact revenge from people who didn’t have fuck all to do with it.
          """
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          date: 2023-10-11 17:56:07.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 41589
      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2113 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "And it’s written by a person, with an agenda and bias just like everyone else. Have a tough time taking anything seriously from someone affiliated with Ward Churchill."
        +lang: "en"
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
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        -id: 41891
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          date: 2023-10-11 21:46:08.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 41891
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2224 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "Citing one book by someone with a clear agenda isn’t a good look either. You picked the fight, feel free to drop it at your leisure."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
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          date: 2023-10-11 22:01:33.0 +02:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2198 …}
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        -id: 41925
        -bodyTs: "'agenda':9 'book':3 'cite':1 'clear':8 'drop':23 'either':15 'feel':20 'fight':19 'free':21 'good':13 'isn':10 'leisur':27 'look':14 'one':2 'pick':17 'someon':5"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-10-11 22:01:33.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41925
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2022 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "I agree with your points, and yes it’s a better perspective, however, that’s not the world we’re living in. There are some who are hell bent on wiping out continents of people due to any number of reasons ranging from beliefs to the exploitation of natural resources merely for financial gain. I really wish we did live in a world where the word “nuclear” invoked thoughts of clean(er), abundant and cheaper energy vs it invoking dread at the prospect of total annihilation."
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2023-10-11 13:43:35.0 +02:00
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works"
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          date: 2023-10-11 13:43:35.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 41306
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2254
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
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        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2250 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +body: """
          Oh wait, my fault. I was responding to your comment “**We are still here**”\n
          \n
          Wasn’t sure which part of my anaolgy you weren’t getting. Now we can peacefully argue about that instead.\n
          \n
          **EDITED FOR TYPO
          """
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          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        -id: 43749
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        +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/comment/4361340"
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          date: 2023-10-12 21:23:04.0 +02:00
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697136748 {#2244
          date: 2023-10-12 20:52:28.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 43749
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2189
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2299 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: """
          You don’t have to apologize to me. If he’s someone who would collaborate with Ward Churchill, he’s got a clear agenda. My source for that was looking him up on Wikipedia, as I had no clue who he was. I’m not going to do the effort of sending you a direct link to the article, so feel free to do it yourself. And grant us all the fact that someone who writes a book has an implied agenda to sell the book.\n
          \n
          And every time you start a post with “Source?”, it’s a bad look.
          """
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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        -id: 42135
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        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/comment/4331392"
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          date: 2023-10-12 00:17:28.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 42135
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
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        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1402 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "While I mostly agree, I never said constant war, but where I will disagree in a sense is, the prospect of total annihilation would have been a factor millennia ago had the technology been there. Pick your era, the Romans, the various Chinese dynasties, the English, etc… if they had the means, they would have likely used it, having zero regard for the impact it would have later, mostly due to a poor understanding of the technology. I do believe, at least between “the big three”, meaning the US, Russia and China, nuclear war is an extremely potent deterrent to all out war. It’s the “kids who want to be in the club” that worry me, everyone from NK to Israel. It sucks, but the atomic cat is out of the bag in a world we’re all forced to live in, and the polarization of politics and other bullshit only work to drive that wedge deeper and push us closer to… bad shit."
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1405 …}
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        -id: 40641
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          date: 2023-10-10 22:52:49.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 40641
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037
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        +body: """
          As I’m too stupid and it’s to early for me to do these inline…\n
          \n
          Your 1st point, here’s one, had to scroll about 1/8 down the page for. Granted it doesn’t explicitly say it was “okay”, the point stands:\n
          \n
          > “China/Russia/Europe are largely inhabited by people whose ancestry traces back 1000s of years to the same region. That’s very different from North America, where most natives where killed (either through disease or “policy”).\n
          \n
          > That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), but it’s still very different.”\n
          \n
          As you also wanted to be pointed to a source for genocides on the same or larger scale throughout history, allow me to search Wikipedia for you:\n
          \n
          [en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides)\n
          \n
          As to point 3, who exactly determines who is responsible and who will benefit from this paln to raise up America’s indigenous population to their proper station? Are 1st generation immigrants from Ghana going to be required to pay up? How about Natives who’s ancestry dates back to a tribe that exterminated another tribe? Surely that should also qualify as genocide?\n
          \n
          And as to point 4, we, in the west, as I did point out I was American, are in a (**relatively**) peaceful time, which implies that throughout history it has not been, but I guess I need to spell it out for some people.\n
          \n
          At the end of the day, you’re not looking to be enlightened or to learn anything, your post was directed to completely discount my points, or to “*troll*” I will admit I was getting heated reading some of the off the wall bullshit I was seeing, but superlatives aside, I stand by everything I’ve posted. I apologize if you TRULY didn’t know about other genocides, or if your worldview has jaded you to the point where you don’t initially see posts that clearly illustrate what I said, at least in the abstract, and you took the time to go back and reread them and allow it to sink in.\n
          \n
          Feel free to pick apart this post, too. Nothing is more entertaining in a meme thread than for 2 idiots, myself included, to argue about genocide.🙂
          """
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2204
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        +body: "Oversimplifing an empire being overthrown. Seems legit."
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2281
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        +body: "It’ll be a while before I can read further but I do intend to read all of it. In my biased opinion so far, i reads like a propaganda piece, the words seleceted in some of the passages are used to elicit a response, but maybe I’ll see differently as I continue. I do have a question, when you say “genocide”, are you also including open conflicts? It’s my understanding of the word that it would not, but I want to make sure, especially when numbers are involved, that we’re using the same metrics."
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      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2263
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        +body: """
          People. On a land mass. Wiped out. People. On a land mass. Wiped out.\n
          \n
          Yeah, I guess I see your point.
          """
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      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
      16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2034}
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
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        +body: "Oh, I stand corrected. A link to a Google doc. Should probably submit that to the Wikipedia article I linked as clearly thier information is flawed. You win an internet today."
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     …2
  }
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  +body: "You too buddy! Would enjoy having rational conversations, even note elsewhere in this thread that I’m taking the time to read American Holocaust, as I told myself “why should I ask someone to do something I’m not willing to do myself?” Granted, being close to 50 years old, it likely won’t change my mind, but I reason that if I do read this book, maybe I can better understand other’s worldview, and maybe, just maybe we can have civil conversations instead of the stupid fucking bickering that’s been going on in a… wait for it… meme thread!"
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2196
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "Explain. How is it a false equivalent? Romans controlled the city / region for over a thousand years and were later conqured, and their land stolen, to use the vernacular of this thread."
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        +body: "So by that logic, the Turks should give Constantinople back to the Romans?"
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      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2307
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          +body: """
            For fucks sake… 1st off, whether or not this qualifies as a “meme”, it doesn’t fit the accepted norm of what most people expect to see when they click on “memes”\n
            \n
            Secondly, and this may sting a little, but peace as we know it is a relatively new thing in world history. I’ve seen a multitude of other comments here proclaiming all those other genocides were okay because they were thousands of years ago. It’s that “in my lifetime” mentality that just fucking grinds my gears. Through thousands of years of history, one genocide is cherry picked and held up as the worst ever, and the citizens who"benefitted" from it are supposed to pick up the tab? My ancestors weren’t Spanish or English, and my family has been here for about 130 years having come from Germany in 1890. How much of the tab am I supposed to pick up?\n
            \n
            Fact of the matter is, the only constant in human history is war. We’re in a (relatively) peaceful era now, and that’s taking into account Ukraine/Russia, Israel/Palestine, and probably another 20 or 30 wars I’m not up to speed on because I’m American and our media doesn’t seem to actually inform us on world events from countries we don’t buy shit from.
            """
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          -bodyTs: "'130':137 '1890':144 '1st':4 '20':188 '30':190 'accept':19 'account':182 'actual':210 'ago':76 'american':202 'ancestor':123 'anoth':187 'benefit':112 'buy':221 'cherri':99 'citizen':110 'click':30 'come':140 'comment':61 'constant':163 'countri':217 'doesn':15,206 'english':128 'era':175 'event':215 'ever':107 'expect':25 'fact':156 'famili':131 'fit':17 'fuck':2,86 'gear':89 'genocid':67,97 'germani':142 'grind':87 'held':102 'histori':53,95,166 'human':165 'inform':211 'israel/palestine':184 'know':44 'lifetim':82 'littl':39 'm':193,201 'matter':159 'may':36 'media':205 'meme':13,32 'mental':83 'much':146 'multitud':58 'new':49 'norm':20 'okay':69 'one':96 'peac':41,174 'peopl':24 'pick':100,118,154 'probabl':186 'proclaim':63 'qualifi':10 're':170 'relat':48,173 'sake':3 'second':33 'see':27 'seem':208 'seen':56 'shit':222 'spanish':126 'speed':197 'sting':37 'suppos':116,152 'tab':121,149 'take':180 'thing':50 'thousand':73,91 'ukraine/russia':183 'us':212 've':55 'war':168,191 'weren':124 'whether':6 'world':52,214 'worst':106 'year':75,93,138"
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            date: 2023-10-10 19:45:38.0 +02:00
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          +"title": 40337
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        +body: """
          Clever.\n
          \n
          I’m going through the sourced materials in the American Holocaust book, (great title, by the way! not divisive at all!), and considering the sources, it’s pretty obvious Stannard has an agenda, he’s a “cultural materialist”, an offshoot of cultural Marxism. But you knew that, you just didn’t think I’d look 😉\n
          \n
          Anyway, with as far as I’ve gotten, I can surmise the sources, the majority of them at least, point to textbooks published by “Berkley; University of California press”. Seems a lot of anti-American sentiment comes out of Berkley. Just to appease my curiosity, I’m going to look deeper into this fellow, who, funny enough, cites his own works as well. That’s pretty douchey
          """
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2349
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: """
          Ah, the internet…\n
          \n
          The phrase “That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), **but it’s still very different**” effectively translates to “Even though this happened, this is worse”.\n
          \n
          If you bothered to look at that list, you’ll note the mention of the California Genocide of 1846. Reported casualties between 9,492 and 16,094, with other estimates as high as 120,000. Absolutely fucking horrible and a black mark on American history indeed. However, there are 31 other genocides on that list that are higher in number, with three of those even happening prior to California-\n
          \n
          Dzungam 1755, 480,000-600,000 Taino 1492, 68,000-968,000 Albigensian 1209, 200,000-1,000,000\n
          \n
          I guess it depends on how you define “genocide”, but since Wikipedia is generally using the accepted definition, I feel pretty safe in going with what they say.\n
          \n
          And I did lay out proof, you’re just too caught up in whatever ideology to see it. Feel free to rebut, down vote, cry or whatever makes you feel better, but my point was the world is a horrible place, and terrible things happen to all kinds of groups of people. The “meme” that started all this IS a cherry picked reference to people who were wronged (I’m not disputing they were wronged, but so were… insert any other group of people here). Throughout history, most civilizations are founded on the conquering of another. As horrible as that is, it’s a fact. And after the fact, many of the remaining conqured are treated horribly. Also a fact.\n
          \n
          Lay out some real numbers, cite an authoritative source (sources) and then we can talk. Until then, I hope the best for you and really wish we could get past this bickering bullshit. Life is too short, and trying to pin the sins of one’s father on the current generation isn’t solving shit. Work toward bettering peoples lives without having to exact revenge from people who didn’t have fuck all to do with it.
          """
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          date: 2023-10-11 17:56:07.0 +02:00
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2113 …}
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        +body: "And it’s written by a person, with an agenda and bias just like everyone else. Have a tough time taking anything seriously from someone affiliated with Ward Churchill."
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        +"title": 41891
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "Citing one book by someone with a clear agenda isn’t a good look either. You picked the fight, feel free to drop it at your leisure."
        +lang: "en"
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        -id: 41925
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          date: 2023-10-11 22:01:33.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 41925
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "I agree with your points, and yes it’s a better perspective, however, that’s not the world we’re living in. There are some who are hell bent on wiping out continents of people due to any number of reasons ranging from beliefs to the exploitation of natural resources merely for financial gain. I really wish we did live in a world where the word “nuclear” invoked thoughts of clean(er), abundant and cheaper energy vs it invoking dread at the prospect of total annihilation."
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          "@ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works"
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2254
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        +body: """
          Oh wait, my fault. I was responding to your comment “**We are still here**”\n
          \n
          Wasn’t sure which part of my anaolgy you weren’t getting. Now we can peacefully argue about that instead.\n
          \n
          **EDITED FOR TYPO
          """
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          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
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          date: 2023-10-12 21:23:04.0 +02:00
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      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2189
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: """
          You don’t have to apologize to me. If he’s someone who would collaborate with Ward Churchill, he’s got a clear agenda. My source for that was looking him up on Wikipedia, as I had no clue who he was. I’m not going to do the effort of sending you a direct link to the article, so feel free to do it yourself. And grant us all the fact that someone who writes a book has an implied agenda to sell the book.\n
          \n
          And every time you start a post with “Source?”, it’s a bad look.
          """
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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        +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/comment/4331392"
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          date: 2023-10-12 00:17:28.0 +02:00
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      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "While I mostly agree, I never said constant war, but where I will disagree in a sense is, the prospect of total annihilation would have been a factor millennia ago had the technology been there. Pick your era, the Romans, the various Chinese dynasties, the English, etc… if they had the means, they would have likely used it, having zero regard for the impact it would have later, mostly due to a poor understanding of the technology. I do believe, at least between “the big three”, meaning the US, Russia and China, nuclear war is an extremely potent deterrent to all out war. It’s the “kids who want to be in the club” that worry me, everyone from NK to Israel. It sucks, but the atomic cat is out of the bag in a world we’re all forced to live in, and the polarization of politics and other bullshit only work to drive that wedge deeper and push us closer to… bad shit."
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1405 …}
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          date: 2023-10-10 22:52:49.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 40641
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037
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        +body: """
          As I’m too stupid and it’s to early for me to do these inline…\n
          \n
          Your 1st point, here’s one, had to scroll about 1/8 down the page for. Granted it doesn’t explicitly say it was “okay”, the point stands:\n
          \n
          > “China/Russia/Europe are largely inhabited by people whose ancestry traces back 1000s of years to the same region. That’s very different from North America, where most natives where killed (either through disease or “policy”).\n
          \n
          > That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), but it’s still very different.”\n
          \n
          As you also wanted to be pointed to a source for genocides on the same or larger scale throughout history, allow me to search Wikipedia for you:\n
          \n
          [en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides)\n
          \n
          As to point 3, who exactly determines who is responsible and who will benefit from this paln to raise up America’s indigenous population to their proper station? Are 1st generation immigrants from Ghana going to be required to pay up? How about Natives who’s ancestry dates back to a tribe that exterminated another tribe? Surely that should also qualify as genocide?\n
          \n
          And as to point 4, we, in the west, as I did point out I was American, are in a (**relatively**) peaceful time, which implies that throughout history it has not been, but I guess I need to spell it out for some people.\n
          \n
          At the end of the day, you’re not looking to be enlightened or to learn anything, your post was directed to completely discount my points, or to “*troll*” I will admit I was getting heated reading some of the off the wall bullshit I was seeing, but superlatives aside, I stand by everything I’ve posted. I apologize if you TRULY didn’t know about other genocides, or if your worldview has jaded you to the point where you don’t initially see posts that clearly illustrate what I said, at least in the abstract, and you took the time to go back and reread them and allow it to sink in.\n
          \n
          Feel free to pick apart this post, too. Nothing is more entertaining in a meme thread than for 2 idiots, myself included, to argue about genocide.🙂
          """
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        +body: "Oversimplifing an empire being overthrown. Seems legit."
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        +body: "It’ll be a while before I can read further but I do intend to read all of it. In my biased opinion so far, i reads like a propaganda piece, the words seleceted in some of the passages are used to elicit a response, but maybe I’ll see differently as I continue. I do have a question, when you say “genocide”, are you also including open conflicts? It’s my understanding of the word that it would not, but I want to make sure, especially when numbers are involved, that we’re using the same metrics."
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      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2263
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        +body: """
          People. On a land mass. Wiped out. People. On a land mass. Wiped out.\n
          \n
          Yeah, I guess I see your point.
          """
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      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
      16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2034
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        +body: "You too buddy! Would enjoy having rational conversations, even note elsewhere in this thread that I’m taking the time to read American Holocaust, as I told myself “why should I ask someone to do something I’m not willing to do myself?” Granted, being close to 50 years old, it likely won’t change my mind, but I reason that if I do read this book, maybe I can better understand other’s worldview, and maybe, just maybe we can have civil conversations instead of the stupid fucking bickering that’s been going on in a… wait for it… meme thread!"
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     …2
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  +body: "Oh, I stand corrected. A link to a Google doc. Should probably submit that to the Wikipedia article I linked as clearly thier information is flawed. You win an internet today."
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2196
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        +body: "Explain. How is it a false equivalent? Romans controlled the city / region for over a thousand years and were later conqured, and their land stolen, to use the vernacular of this thread."
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        +body: "So by that logic, the Turks should give Constantinople back to the Romans?"
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          +body: """
            For fucks sake… 1st off, whether or not this qualifies as a “meme”, it doesn’t fit the accepted norm of what most people expect to see when they click on “memes”\n
            \n
            Secondly, and this may sting a little, but peace as we know it is a relatively new thing in world history. I’ve seen a multitude of other comments here proclaiming all those other genocides were okay because they were thousands of years ago. It’s that “in my lifetime” mentality that just fucking grinds my gears. Through thousands of years of history, one genocide is cherry picked and held up as the worst ever, and the citizens who"benefitted" from it are supposed to pick up the tab? My ancestors weren’t Spanish or English, and my family has been here for about 130 years having come from Germany in 1890. How much of the tab am I supposed to pick up?\n
            \n
            Fact of the matter is, the only constant in human history is war. We’re in a (relatively) peaceful era now, and that’s taking into account Ukraine/Russia, Israel/Palestine, and probably another 20 or 30 wars I’m not up to speed on because I’m American and our media doesn’t seem to actually inform us on world events from countries we don’t buy shit from.
            """
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            "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
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            date: 2023-10-10 19:45:38.0 +02:00
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          +"title": 40337
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        +body: """
          Clever.\n
          \n
          I’m going through the sourced materials in the American Holocaust book, (great title, by the way! not divisive at all!), and considering the sources, it’s pretty obvious Stannard has an agenda, he’s a “cultural materialist”, an offshoot of cultural Marxism. But you knew that, you just didn’t think I’d look 😉\n
          \n
          Anyway, with as far as I’ve gotten, I can surmise the sources, the majority of them at least, point to textbooks published by “Berkley; University of California press”. Seems a lot of anti-American sentiment comes out of Berkley. Just to appease my curiosity, I’m going to look deeper into this fellow, who, funny enough, cites his own works as well. That’s pretty douchey
          """
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2349
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        +body: """
          Ah, the internet…\n
          \n
          The phrase “That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), **but it’s still very different**” effectively translates to “Even though this happened, this is worse”.\n
          \n
          If you bothered to look at that list, you’ll note the mention of the California Genocide of 1846. Reported casualties between 9,492 and 16,094, with other estimates as high as 120,000. Absolutely fucking horrible and a black mark on American history indeed. However, there are 31 other genocides on that list that are higher in number, with three of those even happening prior to California-\n
          \n
          Dzungam 1755, 480,000-600,000 Taino 1492, 68,000-968,000 Albigensian 1209, 200,000-1,000,000\n
          \n
          I guess it depends on how you define “genocide”, but since Wikipedia is generally using the accepted definition, I feel pretty safe in going with what they say.\n
          \n
          And I did lay out proof, you’re just too caught up in whatever ideology to see it. Feel free to rebut, down vote, cry or whatever makes you feel better, but my point was the world is a horrible place, and terrible things happen to all kinds of groups of people. The “meme” that started all this IS a cherry picked reference to people who were wronged (I’m not disputing they were wronged, but so were… insert any other group of people here). Throughout history, most civilizations are founded on the conquering of another. As horrible as that is, it’s a fact. And after the fact, many of the remaining conqured are treated horribly. Also a fact.\n
          \n
          Lay out some real numbers, cite an authoritative source (sources) and then we can talk. Until then, I hope the best for you and really wish we could get past this bickering bullshit. Life is too short, and trying to pin the sins of one’s father on the current generation isn’t solving shit. Work toward bettering peoples lives without having to exact revenge from people who didn’t have fuck all to do with it.
          """
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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        +body: "And it’s written by a person, with an agenda and bias just like everyone else. Have a tough time taking anything seriously from someone affiliated with Ward Churchill."
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        +"title": 41891
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      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "Citing one book by someone with a clear agenda isn’t a good look either. You picked the fight, feel free to drop it at your leisure."
        +lang: "en"
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        -id: 41925
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          date: 2023-10-11 22:01:33.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41925
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "I agree with your points, and yes it’s a better perspective, however, that’s not the world we’re living in. There are some who are hell bent on wiping out continents of people due to any number of reasons ranging from beliefs to the exploitation of natural resources merely for financial gain. I really wish we did live in a world where the word “nuclear” invoked thoughts of clean(er), abundant and cheaper energy vs it invoking dread at the prospect of total annihilation."
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          "@ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works"
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2254
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        +body: """
          Oh wait, my fault. I was responding to your comment “**We are still here**”\n
          \n
          Wasn’t sure which part of my anaolgy you weren’t getting. Now we can peacefully argue about that instead.\n
          \n
          **EDITED FOR TYPO
          """
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          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
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          date: 2023-10-12 21:23:04.0 +02:00
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      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2189
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: """
          You don’t have to apologize to me. If he’s someone who would collaborate with Ward Churchill, he’s got a clear agenda. My source for that was looking him up on Wikipedia, as I had no clue who he was. I’m not going to do the effort of sending you a direct link to the article, so feel free to do it yourself. And grant us all the fact that someone who writes a book has an implied agenda to sell the book.\n
          \n
          And every time you start a post with “Source?”, it’s a bad look.
          """
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/comment/4331392"
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          date: 2023-10-12 00:17:28.0 +02:00
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      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1402 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "While I mostly agree, I never said constant war, but where I will disagree in a sense is, the prospect of total annihilation would have been a factor millennia ago had the technology been there. Pick your era, the Romans, the various Chinese dynasties, the English, etc… if they had the means, they would have likely used it, having zero regard for the impact it would have later, mostly due to a poor understanding of the technology. I do believe, at least between “the big three”, meaning the US, Russia and China, nuclear war is an extremely potent deterrent to all out war. It’s the “kids who want to be in the club” that worry me, everyone from NK to Israel. It sucks, but the atomic cat is out of the bag in a world we’re all forced to live in, and the polarization of politics and other bullshit only work to drive that wedge deeper and push us closer to… bad shit."
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works"
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      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037
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        +body: """
          As I’m too stupid and it’s to early for me to do these inline…\n
          \n
          Your 1st point, here’s one, had to scroll about 1/8 down the page for. Granted it doesn’t explicitly say it was “okay”, the point stands:\n
          \n
          > “China/Russia/Europe are largely inhabited by people whose ancestry traces back 1000s of years to the same region. That’s very different from North America, where most natives where killed (either through disease or “policy”).\n
          \n
          > That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), but it’s still very different.”\n
          \n
          As you also wanted to be pointed to a source for genocides on the same or larger scale throughout history, allow me to search Wikipedia for you:\n
          \n
          [en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides)\n
          \n
          As to point 3, who exactly determines who is responsible and who will benefit from this paln to raise up America’s indigenous population to their proper station? Are 1st generation immigrants from Ghana going to be required to pay up? How about Natives who’s ancestry dates back to a tribe that exterminated another tribe? Surely that should also qualify as genocide?\n
          \n
          And as to point 4, we, in the west, as I did point out I was American, are in a (**relatively**) peaceful time, which implies that throughout history it has not been, but I guess I need to spell it out for some people.\n
          \n
          At the end of the day, you’re not looking to be enlightened or to learn anything, your post was directed to completely discount my points, or to “*troll*” I will admit I was getting heated reading some of the off the wall bullshit I was seeing, but superlatives aside, I stand by everything I’ve posted. I apologize if you TRULY didn’t know about other genocides, or if your worldview has jaded you to the point where you don’t initially see posts that clearly illustrate what I said, at least in the abstract, and you took the time to go back and reread them and allow it to sink in.\n
          \n
          Feel free to pick apart this post, too. Nothing is more entertaining in a meme thread than for 2 idiots, myself included, to argue about genocide.🙂
          """
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2204
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        +body: "Oversimplifing an empire being overthrown. Seems legit."
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        +body: "It’ll be a while before I can read further but I do intend to read all of it. In my biased opinion so far, i reads like a propaganda piece, the words seleceted in some of the passages are used to elicit a response, but maybe I’ll see differently as I continue. I do have a question, when you say “genocide”, are you also including open conflicts? It’s my understanding of the word that it would not, but I want to make sure, especially when numbers are involved, that we’re using the same metrics."
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      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2263
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        +body: """
          People. On a land mass. Wiped out. People. On a land mass. Wiped out.\n
          \n
          Yeah, I guess I see your point.
          """
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      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
      16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2034
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        +body: "You too buddy! Would enjoy having rational conversations, even note elsewhere in this thread that I’m taking the time to read American Holocaust, as I told myself “why should I ask someone to do something I’m not willing to do myself?” Granted, being close to 50 years old, it likely won’t change my mind, but I reason that if I do read this book, maybe I can better understand other’s worldview, and maybe, just maybe we can have civil conversations instead of the stupid fucking bickering that’s been going on in a… wait for it… meme thread!"
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     …2
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  +body: "Oh, I stand corrected. A link to a Google doc. Should probably submit that to the Wikipedia article I linked as clearly thier information is flawed. You win an internet today."
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2196
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        +body: "Explain. How is it a false equivalent? Romans controlled the city / region for over a thousand years and were later conqured, and their land stolen, to use the vernacular of this thread."
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        +body: "So by that logic, the Turks should give Constantinople back to the Romans?"
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        +"title": 41637
      }
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2307
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2306 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410
          +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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          +body: """
            For fucks sake… 1st off, whether or not this qualifies as a “meme”, it doesn’t fit the accepted norm of what most people expect to see when they click on “memes”\n
            \n
            Secondly, and this may sting a little, but peace as we know it is a relatively new thing in world history. I’ve seen a multitude of other comments here proclaiming all those other genocides were okay because they were thousands of years ago. It’s that “in my lifetime” mentality that just fucking grinds my gears. Through thousands of years of history, one genocide is cherry picked and held up as the worst ever, and the citizens who"benefitted" from it are supposed to pick up the tab? My ancestors weren’t Spanish or English, and my family has been here for about 130 years having come from Germany in 1890. How much of the tab am I supposed to pick up?\n
            \n
            Fact of the matter is, the only constant in human history is war. We’re in a (relatively) peaceful era now, and that’s taking into account Ukraine/Russia, Israel/Palestine, and probably another 20 or 30 wars I’m not up to speed on because I’m American and our media doesn’t seem to actually inform us on world events from countries we don’t buy shit from.
            """
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            "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
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            date: 2023-10-10 19:45:38.0 +02:00
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          +"title": 40337
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        +body: """
          Clever.\n
          \n
          I’m going through the sourced materials in the American Holocaust book, (great title, by the way! not divisive at all!), and considering the sources, it’s pretty obvious Stannard has an agenda, he’s a “cultural materialist”, an offshoot of cultural Marxism. But you knew that, you just didn’t think I’d look 😉\n
          \n
          Anyway, with as far as I’ve gotten, I can surmise the sources, the majority of them at least, point to textbooks published by “Berkley; University of California press”. Seems a lot of anti-American sentiment comes out of Berkley. Just to appease my curiosity, I’m going to look deeper into this fellow, who, funny enough, cites his own works as well. That’s pretty douchey
          """
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2349
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: """
          Ah, the internet…\n
          \n
          The phrase “That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), **but it’s still very different**” effectively translates to “Even though this happened, this is worse”.\n
          \n
          If you bothered to look at that list, you’ll note the mention of the California Genocide of 1846. Reported casualties between 9,492 and 16,094, with other estimates as high as 120,000. Absolutely fucking horrible and a black mark on American history indeed. However, there are 31 other genocides on that list that are higher in number, with three of those even happening prior to California-\n
          \n
          Dzungam 1755, 480,000-600,000 Taino 1492, 68,000-968,000 Albigensian 1209, 200,000-1,000,000\n
          \n
          I guess it depends on how you define “genocide”, but since Wikipedia is generally using the accepted definition, I feel pretty safe in going with what they say.\n
          \n
          And I did lay out proof, you’re just too caught up in whatever ideology to see it. Feel free to rebut, down vote, cry or whatever makes you feel better, but my point was the world is a horrible place, and terrible things happen to all kinds of groups of people. The “meme” that started all this IS a cherry picked reference to people who were wronged (I’m not disputing they were wronged, but so were… insert any other group of people here). Throughout history, most civilizations are founded on the conquering of another. As horrible as that is, it’s a fact. And after the fact, many of the remaining conqured are treated horribly. Also a fact.\n
          \n
          Lay out some real numbers, cite an authoritative source (sources) and then we can talk. Until then, I hope the best for you and really wish we could get past this bickering bullshit. Life is too short, and trying to pin the sins of one’s father on the current generation isn’t solving shit. Work toward bettering peoples lives without having to exact revenge from people who didn’t have fuck all to do with it.
          """
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          date: 2023-10-11 17:56:07.0 +02:00
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2113 …}
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        +body: "And it’s written by a person, with an agenda and bias just like everyone else. Have a tough time taking anything seriously from someone affiliated with Ward Churchill."
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2023-10-11 21:46:08.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 41891
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1650 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2224 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "Citing one book by someone with a clear agenda isn’t a good look either. You picked the fight, feel free to drop it at your leisure."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2198 …}
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        -id: 41925
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          date: 2023-10-11 22:01:33.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 41925
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "I agree with your points, and yes it’s a better perspective, however, that’s not the world we’re living in. There are some who are hell bent on wiping out continents of people due to any number of reasons ranging from beliefs to the exploitation of natural resources merely for financial gain. I really wish we did live in a world where the word “nuclear” invoked thoughts of clean(er), abundant and cheaper energy vs it invoking dread at the prospect of total annihilation."
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          date: 2023-10-11 13:43:35.0 +02:00
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works"
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          date: 2023-10-11 13:43:35.0 +02:00
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2254
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        +body: """
          Oh wait, my fault. I was responding to your comment “**We are still here**”\n
          \n
          Wasn’t sure which part of my anaolgy you weren’t getting. Now we can peacefully argue about that instead.\n
          \n
          **EDITED FOR TYPO
          """
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          "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
          "@nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
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        -id: 43749
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          date: 2023-10-12 21:23:04.0 +02:00
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697136748 {#2244
          date: 2023-10-12 20:52:28.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 43749
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2189
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: """
          You don’t have to apologize to me. If he’s someone who would collaborate with Ward Churchill, he’s got a clear agenda. My source for that was looking him up on Wikipedia, as I had no clue who he was. I’m not going to do the effort of sending you a direct link to the article, so feel free to do it yourself. And grant us all the fact that someone who writes a book has an implied agenda to sell the book.\n
          \n
          And every time you start a post with “Source?”, it’s a bad look.
          """
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          "@rug_burn@sh.itjust.works"
          "@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml"
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        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/comment/4331392"
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          date: 2023-10-12 00:17:28.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 42135
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1874 …2}
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        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1402 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
        +body: "While I mostly agree, I never said constant war, but where I will disagree in a sense is, the prospect of total annihilation would have been a factor millennia ago had the technology been there. Pick your era, the Romans, the various Chinese dynasties, the English, etc… if they had the means, they would have likely used it, having zero regard for the impact it would have later, mostly due to a poor understanding of the technology. I do believe, at least between “the big three”, meaning the US, Russia and China, nuclear war is an extremely potent deterrent to all out war. It’s the “kids who want to be in the club” that worry me, everyone from NK to Israel. It sucks, but the atomic cat is out of the bag in a world we’re all forced to live in, and the polarization of politics and other bullshit only work to drive that wedge deeper and push us closer to… bad shit."
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          "@ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works"
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      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037
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        +body: """
          As I’m too stupid and it’s to early for me to do these inline…\n
          \n
          Your 1st point, here’s one, had to scroll about 1/8 down the page for. Granted it doesn’t explicitly say it was “okay”, the point stands:\n
          \n
          > “China/Russia/Europe are largely inhabited by people whose ancestry traces back 1000s of years to the same region. That’s very different from North America, where most natives where killed (either through disease or “policy”).\n
          \n
          > That’s not to excuse their past behaviour (Europeans started the genocide in North America), but it’s still very different.”\n
          \n
          As you also wanted to be pointed to a source for genocides on the same or larger scale throughout history, allow me to search Wikipedia for you:\n
          \n
          [en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides)\n
          \n
          As to point 3, who exactly determines who is responsible and who will benefit from this paln to raise up America’s indigenous population to their proper station? Are 1st generation immigrants from Ghana going to be required to pay up? How about Natives who’s ancestry dates back to a tribe that exterminated another tribe? Surely that should also qualify as genocide?\n
          \n
          And as to point 4, we, in the west, as I did point out I was American, are in a (**relatively**) peaceful time, which implies that throughout history it has not been, but I guess I need to spell it out for some people.\n
          \n
          At the end of the day, you’re not looking to be enlightened or to learn anything, your post was directed to completely discount my points, or to “*troll*” I will admit I was getting heated reading some of the off the wall bullshit I was seeing, but superlatives aside, I stand by everything I’ve posted. I apologize if you TRULY didn’t know about other genocides, or if your worldview has jaded you to the point where you don’t initially see posts that clearly illustrate what I said, at least in the abstract, and you took the time to go back and reread them and allow it to sink in.\n
          \n
          Feel free to pick apart this post, too. Nothing is more entertaining in a meme thread than for 2 idiots, myself included, to argue about genocide.🙂
          """
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2204
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        +body: "Oversimplifing an empire being overthrown. Seems legit."
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2281
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        +body: "It’ll be a while before I can read further but I do intend to read all of it. In my biased opinion so far, i reads like a propaganda piece, the words seleceted in some of the passages are used to elicit a response, but maybe I’ll see differently as I continue. I do have a question, when you say “genocide”, are you also including open conflicts? It’s my understanding of the word that it would not, but I want to make sure, especially when numbers are involved, that we’re using the same metrics."
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      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2263
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        +body: """
          People. On a land mass. Wiped out. People. On a land mass. Wiped out.\n
          \n
          Yeah, I guess I see your point.
          """
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      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410}
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        +body: "You too buddy! Would enjoy having rational conversations, even note elsewhere in this thread that I’m taking the time to read American Holocaust, as I told myself “why should I ask someone to do something I’m not willing to do myself?” Granted, being close to 50 years old, it likely won’t change my mind, but I reason that if I do read this book, maybe I can better understand other’s worldview, and maybe, just maybe we can have civil conversations instead of the stupid fucking bickering that’s been going on in a… wait for it… meme thread!"
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     …2
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  +body: "Oh, I stand corrected. A link to a Google doc. Should probably submit that to the Wikipedia article I linked as clearly thier information is flawed. You win an internet today."
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
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  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1586 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1572 …}
  +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1567 …}
  +children: []
  -id: 13849
  -titleTs: "'hungri':4 'm':3"
  -bodyTs: null
  +cross: false
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +ranking: 1688180659
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/post/618377"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1688180659 {#1444
    date: 2023-07-01 05:04:19.0 +02:00
  }
}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"

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