GET https://kbin.spritesserver.nl/u/@HelixDab@kbin.social/newest/2023-07-18::2023-07-18

Response
200 OK
IP
216.73.216.170
Profiled on
Token
13b51a

Security

Token

There is no security token.

Firewall

main Name
Security enabled
Stateless

Configuration

Key Value
provider security.user.provider.concrete.app_user_provider
context main
entry_point App\Security\KbinAuthenticator
user_checker App\Security\UserChecker
access_denied_handler (none)
access_denied_url (none)
authenticators 
[
  "two_factor"
  "remember_me"
  "App\Security\KbinAuthenticator"
  "App\Security\FacebookAuthenticator"
  "App\Security\GoogleAuthenticator"
  "App\Security\GithubAuthenticator"
  "App\Security\KeycloakAuthenticator"
]

Listeners

Listener Duration Response 
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\ChannelListener {#723
  -map: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\AccessMap {#722 …}
  -logger: Monolog\Logger {#783 …}
  -httpPort: 80
  -httpsPort: 443
}
 0.00 ms (none) 
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\ContextListener {#706
  -tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\TokenStorage {#1017 …}
  -sessionKey: "_security_main"
  -logger: Monolog\Logger {#783 …}
  -userProviders: Symfony\Component\DependencyInjection\Argument\RewindableGenerator {#705 …}
  -dispatcher: Symfony\Component\EventDispatcher\Debug\TraceableEventDispatcher {#747 …}
  -registered: false
  -trustResolver: Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authentication\AuthenticationTrustResolver {#780 …}
  -sessionTrackerEnabler: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage::enableUsageTracking(): void {#703 …}
}
 0.72 ms (none) 
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\AuthenticatorManagerListener {#584
  -authenticatorManager: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Authentication\AuthenticatorManager {#595 …}
}
 0.00 ms (none) 
Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Http\Firewall\TwoFactorAccessListener {#582
  -twoFactorFirewallConfig: Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\TwoFactor\TwoFactorFirewallConfig {#842 …}
  -tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage {#1018 …}
  -twoFactorAccessDecider: Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\TwoFactorAccessDecider {#581 …}
}
 0.04 ms (none) 
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\AccessListener {#579
  -tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage {#1018 …}
  -accessDecisionManager: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\TraceableAccessDecisionManager {#937 …}
  -map: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\AccessMap {#722 …}
}
 0.00 ms (none) 
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\LogoutListener {#786
  -tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage {#1018 …}
  -options: [
    "csrf_parameter" => "_csrf_token"
    "csrf_token_id" => "logout"
    "logout_path" => "app_logout"
  ]
  -httpUtils: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\HttpUtils {#841 …}
  -csrfTokenManager: Symfony\Component\Security\Csrf\CsrfTokenManager {#1015 …}
  -eventDispatcher: Symfony\Component\EventDispatcher\Debug\TraceableEventDispatcher {#747 …}
}
 0.00 ms (none)

Authenticators

No authenticators have been recorded. Check previous profiles on your authentication endpoint.

Access Decision

affirmative Strategy
# Voter class
1 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\AuthenticatedVoter"
2 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
3 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
4 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\ExpressionVoter"
5 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
6 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
7 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
8 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
9 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
10 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
11 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
12 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
13 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
14 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"

Access decision log

# Result Attributes Object
1 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
2 DENIED moderate 
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1584
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2618 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1576 …}
  +image: null
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#1350 …}
  +slug: "How-do-I-learn-to-detect-logical-fallacies-in-a"
  +title: "How do I learn to detect logical fallacies in a conversation?"
  +url: null
  +body: """
    It is difficult for me to ascertain when the person I am communicating is using a logical fallacy to trick me into believing him or doubting my judgement, even when I realise it hours after the argument.\n
    \n
    I have seen countless arguments in Reddit threads and I couldn’t figure out who was in the right or wrong unless I looked at the upvote counts. Even if the person is uttering a blatant lie, they somehow make it sound in a way that is completely believable to me. If it weren’t for those people that could exactly point out the irrationality behind these arguments, my mind would have been lobotomised long ago.\n
    \n
    I do want to learn these critical thinking skills but I don’t know where to begin from. I could have all these tips and strategies memorised in theory, but they would be essentially useless if I am not able to think properly or remember them at the heat of the moment.\n
    \n
    There could be many situations I could be unprepared for, like when the other person brings up a fact or statistic to support their claim and I have no way to verify it at the moment, or when someone I know personally to be wise or well-informed bring up about such fallacies, perhaps about a topic they are not well-versed with or misinformed of by some other unreliable source, and I don’t know whether to believe them or myself.\n
    \n
    Could someone help me in this? I find this skill of distinguishing fallacies from facts to be an extremely important thing to have in this age of misinformation and would really wish to learn it well if possible. Maybe I could take inspiration from how you came about learning these critical thinking skills by your own.\n
    \n
    Edit: I do not blindly trust the upvote count in a comment thread to determine who is right or wrong. It just helps me inform that the original opinion is not inherently acceptable by everyone. It is up to me decide who is actually correct or not, which I can do at my leisure unlike in a live conversation with someone where I don’t get the time to think rationally about what the other person is saying.
    """
  +type: "article"
  +lang: "en"
  +isOc: false
  +hasEmbed: false
  +commentCount: 75
  +favouriteCount: 210
  +score: 0
  +isAdult: false
  +sticky: false
  +lastActive: DateTime @1689744657 {#2613
    date: 2023-07-19 07:30:57.0 +02:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +adaAmount: 0
  +tags: null
  +mentions: null
  +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2619 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2629 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2631 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2633 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2635 …}
  +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2637 …}
  +children: [
    1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1612
      +user: App\Entity\User {#260 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1584 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1576 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1656 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1656 …}
      +body: "That seems like a dangerous approach to not care if you disagree with people. Shouldn't you know if your disagreement with them is based on sound reasoning?"
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 0
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1689674929 {#1429
        date: 2023-07-18 12:08:49.0 +02:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@Datman2020@lemmy.fmhy.ml"
        "@anotherlemmyuser@lemmy.ml"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1653 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1655 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1654 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1679 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1526 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1568 …}
      -id: 21615
      -bodyTs: "'approach':6 'base':25 'care':9 'danger':5 'disagr':21 'disagre':12 'know':18 'like':3 'peopl':14 'reason':28 'seem':2 'shouldn':15 'sound':27"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://kbin.social/m/asklemmy@lemmy.ml/t/214803/-/comment/904348"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1689674929 {#1693
        date: 2023-07-18 12:08:49.0 +02:00
      }
      +"title": 21615
    }
    0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1565
      +user: App\Entity\User {#260 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1584 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1576 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1563 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1563 …}
      +body: ""Truth" is a matter of conclusions and meaning, not of facts. Factual information would be something like--and this is an intentionally racist argument--53% of the murder arrests in the US come from a racial group that makes up 14% of the population. This is a fact, and it can be clearly seen in FBI statistics. But your conclusions from that fact--what that fact *means*--that's the point of rhetoric and logic. Faulty logic would make multiple leaps and say, well, obvs. this means that black people are more prone to commit murder. A more logically sound approach would look at things like whether there where different patterns in law enforcement based on racial groups, what factors were leading to murder rates in racial groups and whether those factors were present across all demographics, and so on."
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 1
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1689675472 {#1574
        date: 2023-07-18 12:17:52.0 +02:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@Datman2020@lemmy.fmhy.ml"
        "@nonstopshirtflutter@lemmy.fmhy.ml"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1548 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1554 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1556 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1555 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1620 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1604 …}
      -id: 21623
      -bodyTs: "'-53':25 '14':41 'across':135 'approach':101 'argument':24 'arrest':29 'base':115 'black':89 'clear':53 'come':33 'commit':95 'conclus':6,60 'demograph':137 'differ':110 'enforc':114 'fact':11,48,63,66 'factor':120,132 'factual':12 'faulti':76 'fbi':56 'group':37,118,128 'inform':13 'intent':22 'law':113 'lead':122 'leap':81 'like':17,106 'logic':75,77,99 'look':103 'make':39,79 'matter':4 'mean':8,67,87 'multipl':80 'murder':28,96,124 'obv':85 'pattern':111 'peopl':90 'point':71 'popul':44 'present':134 'prone':93 'racial':36,117,127 'racist':23 'rate':125 'rhetor':73 'say':83 'seen':54 'someth':16 'sound':100 'statist':57 'thing':105 'truth':1 'us':32 'well':84 'whether':107,130 'would':14,78,102"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://kbin.social/m/asklemmy@lemmy.ml/t/214803/-/comment/904490"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1689675472 {#1562
        date: 2023-07-18 12:17:52.0 +02:00
      }
      +"title": 21623
    }
  ]
  -id: 1418
  -titleTs: "'convers':11 'detect':6 'fallaci':8 'learn':4 'logic':7"
  -bodyTs: "'abl':153 'accept':338 'actual':349 'age':275 'ago':113 'argument':37,42,105 'ascertain':7 'begin':130 'behind':103 'believ':23,86,246 'blatant':73 'blind':310 'bring':181,215 'came':296 'claim':190 'comment':317 'communic':13 'complet':85 'convers':364 'correct':350 'could':97,133,167,172,250,290 'couldn':48 'count':65,314 'countless':41 'critic':120,300 'decid':346 'determin':320 'difficult':3 'distinguish':261 'doubt':26 'edit':306 'essenti':147 'even':29,66 'everyon':340 'exact':98 'extrem':268 'fact':184,264 'fallaci':18,219,262 'figur':50 'find':257 'get':371 'heat':162 'help':252,328 'hour':34 'import':269 'inform':214,330 'inher':337 'inspir':292 'irrat':102 'judgement':28 'know':127,206,243 'learn':118,283,298 'leisur':359 'lie':74 'like':176 'live':363 'lobotomis':111 'logic':17 'long':112 'look':61 'make':77 'mani':169 'mayb':288 'memoris':140 'mind':107 'misinform':232,277 'moment':165,201 'opinion':334 'origin':333 'peopl':95 'perhap':220 'person':10,69,180,207,381 'point':99 'possibl':287 'proper':156 'ration':376 'realis':32 'realli':280 'reddit':44 'rememb':158 'right':56,323 'say':383 'seen':40 'situat':170 'skill':122,259,302 'somehow':76 'someon':204,251,366 'sound':79 'sourc':238 'statist':186 'strategi':139 'support':188 'take':291 'theori':142 'thing':270 'think':121,155,301,375 'thread':45,318 'time':373 'tip':137 'topic':223 'trick':20 'trust':311 'unless':59 'unlik':360 'unprepar':174 'unreli':237 'upvot':64,313 'use':15 'useless':148 'utter':71 'verifi':197 'vers':229 'want':116 'way':82,195 'well':213,228,285 'well-inform':212 'well-vers':227 'weren':91 'whether':244 'wise':210 'wish':281 'would':108,145,279 'wrong':58,325"
  +cross: false
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +ranking: 1689749127
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://lemmy.fmhy.ml/post/1175396"
  +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1689666749 {#2197
    date: 2023-07-18 09:52:29.0 +02:00
  }
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1689662727 {#2097
    date: 2023-07-18 08:45:27.0 +02:00
  }
  +__isInitialized__: true
   …2
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
3 DENIED edit 
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1584
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2618 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1576 …}
  +image: null
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#1350 …}
  +slug: "How-do-I-learn-to-detect-logical-fallacies-in-a"
  +title: "How do I learn to detect logical fallacies in a conversation?"
  +url: null
  +body: """
    It is difficult for me to ascertain when the person I am communicating is using a logical fallacy to trick me into believing him or doubting my judgement, even when I realise it hours after the argument.\n
    \n
    I have seen countless arguments in Reddit threads and I couldn’t figure out who was in the right or wrong unless I looked at the upvote counts. Even if the person is uttering a blatant lie, they somehow make it sound in a way that is completely believable to me. If it weren’t for those people that could exactly point out the irrationality behind these arguments, my mind would have been lobotomised long ago.\n
    \n
    I do want to learn these critical thinking skills but I don’t know where to begin from. I could have all these tips and strategies memorised in theory, but they would be essentially useless if I am not able to think properly or remember them at the heat of the moment.\n
    \n
    There could be many situations I could be unprepared for, like when the other person brings up a fact or statistic to support their claim and I have no way to verify it at the moment, or when someone I know personally to be wise or well-informed bring up about such fallacies, perhaps about a topic they are not well-versed with or misinformed of by some other unreliable source, and I don’t know whether to believe them or myself.\n
    \n
    Could someone help me in this? I find this skill of distinguishing fallacies from facts to be an extremely important thing to have in this age of misinformation and would really wish to learn it well if possible. Maybe I could take inspiration from how you came about learning these critical thinking skills by your own.\n
    \n
    Edit: I do not blindly trust the upvote count in a comment thread to determine who is right or wrong. It just helps me inform that the original opinion is not inherently acceptable by everyone. It is up to me decide who is actually correct or not, which I can do at my leisure unlike in a live conversation with someone where I don’t get the time to think rationally about what the other person is saying.
    """
  +type: "article"
  +lang: "en"
  +isOc: false
  +hasEmbed: false
  +commentCount: 75
  +favouriteCount: 210
  +score: 0
  +isAdult: false
  +sticky: false
  +lastActive: DateTime @1689744657 {#2613
    date: 2023-07-19 07:30:57.0 +02:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +adaAmount: 0
  +tags: null
  +mentions: null
  +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2619 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2629 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2631 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2633 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2635 …}
  +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2637 …}
  +children: [
    1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1612
      +user: App\Entity\User {#260 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1584 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1576 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1656 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1656 …}
      +body: "That seems like a dangerous approach to not care if you disagree with people. Shouldn't you know if your disagreement with them is based on sound reasoning?"
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 0
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1689674929 {#1429
        date: 2023-07-18 12:08:49.0 +02:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@Datman2020@lemmy.fmhy.ml"
        "@anotherlemmyuser@lemmy.ml"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1653 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1655 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1654 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1679 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1526 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1568 …}
      -id: 21615
      -bodyTs: "'approach':6 'base':25 'care':9 'danger':5 'disagr':21 'disagre':12 'know':18 'like':3 'peopl':14 'reason':28 'seem':2 'shouldn':15 'sound':27"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://kbin.social/m/asklemmy@lemmy.ml/t/214803/-/comment/904348"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1689674929 {#1693
        date: 2023-07-18 12:08:49.0 +02:00
      }
      +"title": 21615
    }
    0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1565
      +user: App\Entity\User {#260 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1584 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1576 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1563 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1563 …}
      +body: ""Truth" is a matter of conclusions and meaning, not of facts. Factual information would be something like--and this is an intentionally racist argument--53% of the murder arrests in the US come from a racial group that makes up 14% of the population. This is a fact, and it can be clearly seen in FBI statistics. But your conclusions from that fact--what that fact *means*--that's the point of rhetoric and logic. Faulty logic would make multiple leaps and say, well, obvs. this means that black people are more prone to commit murder. A more logically sound approach would look at things like whether there where different patterns in law enforcement based on racial groups, what factors were leading to murder rates in racial groups and whether those factors were present across all demographics, and so on."
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 1
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1689675472 {#1574
        date: 2023-07-18 12:17:52.0 +02:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@Datman2020@lemmy.fmhy.ml"
        "@nonstopshirtflutter@lemmy.fmhy.ml"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1548 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1554 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1556 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1555 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1620 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1604 …}
      -id: 21623
      -bodyTs: "'-53':25 '14':41 'across':135 'approach':101 'argument':24 'arrest':29 'base':115 'black':89 'clear':53 'come':33 'commit':95 'conclus':6,60 'demograph':137 'differ':110 'enforc':114 'fact':11,48,63,66 'factor':120,132 'factual':12 'faulti':76 'fbi':56 'group':37,118,128 'inform':13 'intent':22 'law':113 'lead':122 'leap':81 'like':17,106 'logic':75,77,99 'look':103 'make':39,79 'matter':4 'mean':8,67,87 'multipl':80 'murder':28,96,124 'obv':85 'pattern':111 'peopl':90 'point':71 'popul':44 'present':134 'prone':93 'racial':36,117,127 'racist':23 'rate':125 'rhetor':73 'say':83 'seen':54 'someth':16 'sound':100 'statist':57 'thing':105 'truth':1 'us':32 'well':84 'whether':107,130 'would':14,78,102"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://kbin.social/m/asklemmy@lemmy.ml/t/214803/-/comment/904490"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1689675472 {#1562
        date: 2023-07-18 12:17:52.0 +02:00
      }
      +"title": 21623
    }
  ]
  -id: 1418
  -titleTs: "'convers':11 'detect':6 'fallaci':8 'learn':4 'logic':7"
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    It is difficult for me to ascertain when the person I am communicating is using a logical fallacy to trick me into believing him or doubting my judgement, even when I realise it hours after the argument.\n
    \n
    I have seen countless arguments in Reddit threads and I couldn’t figure out who was in the right or wrong unless I looked at the upvote counts. Even if the person is uttering a blatant lie, they somehow make it sound in a way that is completely believable to me. If it weren’t for those people that could exactly point out the irrationality behind these arguments, my mind would have been lobotomised long ago.\n
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    I do want to learn these critical thinking skills but I don’t know where to begin from. I could have all these tips and strategies memorised in theory, but they would be essentially useless if I am not able to think properly or remember them at the heat of the moment.\n
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    There could be many situations I could be unprepared for, like when the other person brings up a fact or statistic to support their claim and I have no way to verify it at the moment, or when someone I know personally to be wise or well-informed bring up about such fallacies, perhaps about a topic they are not well-versed with or misinformed of by some other unreliable source, and I don’t know whether to believe them or myself.\n
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    Could someone help me in this? I find this skill of distinguishing fallacies from facts to be an extremely important thing to have in this age of misinformation and would really wish to learn it well if possible. Maybe I could take inspiration from how you came about learning these critical thinking skills by your own.\n
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      +body: "That seems like a dangerous approach to not care if you disagree with people. Shouldn't you know if your disagreement with them is based on sound reasoning?"
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      +body: ""Truth" is a matter of conclusions and meaning, not of facts. Factual information would be something like--and this is an intentionally racist argument--53% of the murder arrests in the US come from a racial group that makes up 14% of the population. This is a fact, and it can be clearly seen in FBI statistics. But your conclusions from that fact--what that fact *means*--that's the point of rhetoric and logic. Faulty logic would make multiple leaps and say, well, obvs. this means that black people are more prone to commit murder. A more logically sound approach would look at things like whether there where different patterns in law enforcement based on racial groups, what factors were leading to murder rates in racial groups and whether those factors were present across all demographics, and so on."
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5 DENIED ROLE_USER 
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      It is difficult for me to ascertain when the person I am communicating is using a logical fallacy to trick me into believing him or doubting my judgement, even when I realise it hours after the argument.\n
      \n
      I have seen countless arguments in Reddit threads and I couldn’t figure out who was in the right or wrong unless I looked at the upvote counts. Even if the person is uttering a blatant lie, they somehow make it sound in a way that is completely believable to me. If it weren’t for those people that could exactly point out the irrationality behind these arguments, my mind would have been lobotomised long ago.\n
      \n
      I do want to learn these critical thinking skills but I don’t know where to begin from. I could have all these tips and strategies memorised in theory, but they would be essentially useless if I am not able to think properly or remember them at the heat of the moment.\n
      \n
      There could be many situations I could be unprepared for, like when the other person brings up a fact or statistic to support their claim and I have no way to verify it at the moment, or when someone I know personally to be wise or well-informed bring up about such fallacies, perhaps about a topic they are not well-versed with or misinformed of by some other unreliable source, and I don’t know whether to believe them or myself.\n
      \n
      Could someone help me in this? I find this skill of distinguishing fallacies from facts to be an extremely important thing to have in this age of misinformation and would really wish to learn it well if possible. Maybe I could take inspiration from how you came about learning these critical thinking skills by your own.\n
      \n
      Edit: I do not blindly trust the upvote count in a comment thread to determine who is right or wrong. It just helps me inform that the original opinion is not inherently acceptable by everyone. It is up to me decide who is actually correct or not, which I can do at my leisure unlike in a live conversation with someone where I don’t get the time to think rationally about what the other person is saying.
      """
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        +body: ""Truth" is a matter of conclusions and meaning, not of facts. Factual information would be something like--and this is an intentionally racist argument--53% of the murder arrests in the US come from a racial group that makes up 14% of the population. This is a fact, and it can be clearly seen in FBI statistics. But your conclusions from that fact--what that fact *means*--that's the point of rhetoric and logic. Faulty logic would make multiple leaps and say, well, obvs. this means that black people are more prone to commit murder. A more logically sound approach would look at things like whether there where different patterns in law enforcement based on racial groups, what factors were leading to murder rates in racial groups and whether those factors were present across all demographics, and so on."
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      It is difficult for me to ascertain when the person I am communicating is using a logical fallacy to trick me into believing him or doubting my judgement, even when I realise it hours after the argument.\n
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      Could someone help me in this? I find this skill of distinguishing fallacies from facts to be an extremely important thing to have in this age of misinformation and would really wish to learn it well if possible. Maybe I could take inspiration from how you came about learning these critical thinking skills by your own.\n
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        +body: ""Truth" is a matter of conclusions and meaning, not of facts. Factual information would be something like--and this is an intentionally racist argument--53% of the murder arrests in the US come from a racial group that makes up 14% of the population. This is a fact, and it can be clearly seen in FBI statistics. But your conclusions from that fact--what that fact *means*--that's the point of rhetoric and logic. Faulty logic would make multiple leaps and say, well, obvs. this means that black people are more prone to commit murder. A more logically sound approach would look at things like whether there where different patterns in law enforcement based on racial groups, what factors were leading to murder rates in racial groups and whether those factors were present across all demographics, and so on."
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      It is difficult for me to ascertain when the person I am communicating is using a logical fallacy to trick me into believing him or doubting my judgement, even when I realise it hours after the argument.\n
      \n
      I have seen countless arguments in Reddit threads and I couldn’t figure out who was in the right or wrong unless I looked at the upvote counts. Even if the person is uttering a blatant lie, they somehow make it sound in a way that is completely believable to me. If it weren’t for those people that could exactly point out the irrationality behind these arguments, my mind would have been lobotomised long ago.\n
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      There could be many situations I could be unprepared for, like when the other person brings up a fact or statistic to support their claim and I have no way to verify it at the moment, or when someone I know personally to be wise or well-informed bring up about such fallacies, perhaps about a topic they are not well-versed with or misinformed of by some other unreliable source, and I don’t know whether to believe them or myself.\n
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        +body: ""Truth" is a matter of conclusions and meaning, not of facts. Factual information would be something like--and this is an intentionally racist argument--53% of the murder arrests in the US come from a racial group that makes up 14% of the population. This is a fact, and it can be clearly seen in FBI statistics. But your conclusions from that fact--what that fact *means*--that's the point of rhetoric and logic. Faulty logic would make multiple leaps and say, well, obvs. this means that black people are more prone to commit murder. A more logically sound approach would look at things like whether there where different patterns in law enforcement based on racial groups, what factors were leading to murder rates in racial groups and whether those factors were present across all demographics, and so on."
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      It is difficult for me to ascertain when the person I am communicating is using a logical fallacy to trick me into believing him or doubting my judgement, even when I realise it hours after the argument.\n
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  +body: ""Truth" is a matter of conclusions and meaning, not of facts. Factual information would be something like--and this is an intentionally racist argument--53% of the murder arrests in the US come from a racial group that makes up 14% of the population. This is a fact, and it can be clearly seen in FBI statistics. But your conclusions from that fact--what that fact *means*--that's the point of rhetoric and logic. Faulty logic would make multiple leaps and say, well, obvs. this means that black people are more prone to commit murder. A more logically sound approach would look at things like whether there where different patterns in law enforcement based on racial groups, what factors were leading to murder rates in racial groups and whether those factors were present across all demographics, and so on."
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      It is difficult for me to ascertain when the person I am communicating is using a logical fallacy to trick me into believing him or doubting my judgement, even when I realise it hours after the argument.\n
      \n
      I have seen countless arguments in Reddit threads and I couldn’t figure out who was in the right or wrong unless I looked at the upvote counts. Even if the person is uttering a blatant lie, they somehow make it sound in a way that is completely believable to me. If it weren’t for those people that could exactly point out the irrationality behind these arguments, my mind would have been lobotomised long ago.\n
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      I do want to learn these critical thinking skills but I don’t know where to begin from. I could have all these tips and strategies memorised in theory, but they would be essentially useless if I am not able to think properly or remember them at the heat of the moment.\n
      \n
      There could be many situations I could be unprepared for, like when the other person brings up a fact or statistic to support their claim and I have no way to verify it at the moment, or when someone I know personally to be wise or well-informed bring up about such fallacies, perhaps about a topic they are not well-versed with or misinformed of by some other unreliable source, and I don’t know whether to believe them or myself.\n
      \n
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      \n
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12 DENIED moderate 
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      I do want to learn these critical thinking skills but I don’t know where to begin from. I could have all these tips and strategies memorised in theory, but they would be essentially useless if I am not able to think properly or remember them at the heat of the moment.\n
      \n
      There could be many situations I could be unprepared for, like when the other person brings up a fact or statistic to support their claim and I have no way to verify it at the moment, or when someone I know personally to be wise or well-informed bring up about such fallacies, perhaps about a topic they are not well-versed with or misinformed of by some other unreliable source, and I don’t know whether to believe them or myself.\n
      \n
      Could someone help me in this? I find this skill of distinguishing fallacies from facts to be an extremely important thing to have in this age of misinformation and would really wish to learn it well if possible. Maybe I could take inspiration from how you came about learning these critical thinking skills by your own.\n
      \n
      Edit: I do not blindly trust the upvote count in a comment thread to determine who is right or wrong. It just helps me inform that the original opinion is not inherently acceptable by everyone. It is up to me decide who is actually correct or not, which I can do at my leisure unlike in a live conversation with someone where I don’t get the time to think rationally about what the other person is saying.
      """
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        +body: "That seems like a dangerous approach to not care if you disagree with people. Shouldn't you know if your disagreement with them is based on sound reasoning?"
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  +body: ""Truth" is a matter of conclusions and meaning, not of facts. Factual information would be something like--and this is an intentionally racist argument--53% of the murder arrests in the US come from a racial group that makes up 14% of the population. This is a fact, and it can be clearly seen in FBI statistics. But your conclusions from that fact--what that fact *means*--that's the point of rhetoric and logic. Faulty logic would make multiple leaps and say, well, obvs. this means that black people are more prone to commit murder. A more logically sound approach would look at things like whether there where different patterns in law enforcement based on racial groups, what factors were leading to murder rates in racial groups and whether those factors were present across all demographics, and so on."
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        ...And how exactly do you think people are going to be able to eat meat otherwise? Or have dairy, eggs, wool, etc.? Do you think that people should e.g., raise chickens in the city?\n
        \n
        And that's ignoring the small obligate carnivores that make up most of the pets in the world.\n
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        Hey, I'd rather hunt my own food too, but we no longer live in tribal or feudal societies where you can reasonably expect to engage in animal husbandry yourself.
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        First: How do you reconcile that view with the idea that animals also experience the world as people do with the idea that animals kill and eat other animals? Bears, for instance, are roughly as intelligent as a kindergartener, and yet happily kill and eat any other animals that they can. Pigs and crows are also omnivorous, and will eat any source of meat that they come across. They can all likewise avoid killing if they choose, yet they don't. Are they immoral? Or does morality only apply to humans? (Even animals that we traditionally think of as herbivorous are opportunistic meat eaters.)\n
        \n
        Second: What would you propose replacing animal products with, when there are no alternatives that function as well? What about when the alternative products also cause greater environmental harms?\n
        \n
        Third: So you would not have a problem with, for instance, hunting and eating invasive species, since those species cause more harm to existing ecosystems than *not* eradicating them would? What about when those invasive species are also highly intelligent, e.g. feral pigs? Or is it better to let them wreck existing ecosystems so that humans aren't causing harm? To drill down on that further, should humans allow harm to happen by failing to act, or should we cause harm to prevent greater harm?\n
        \n
        Fourth: "Exploiting" is such an interesting claim. Vegans are typically opposed to honey, since they view it as an exploitative product. Are you aware that without commercial apiaries, agriculture would collapse? That is, without exploiting honey bees, we are not capable of pollinating crops?\n
        \n
        Would you agree, given that all food production for humans causes environmental harm, that the only rational approach to eliminate that harm is the eradication of humanity?
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        ...And how exactly do you think people are going to be able to eat meat otherwise? Or have dairy, eggs, wool, etc.? Do you think that people should e.g., raise chickens in the city?\n
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        And that's ignoring the small obligate carnivores that make up most of the pets in the world.\n
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        Hey, I'd rather hunt my own food too, but we no longer live in tribal or feudal societies where you can reasonably expect to engage in animal husbandry yourself.
        """
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      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1689676779 {#1702
        date: 2023-07-18 12:39:39.0 +02:00
      }
      +"title": 21640
    }
    0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1626
      +user: App\Entity\User {#260 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1683 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1576 …}
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      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1687 …}
      +body: """
        First: How do you reconcile that view with the idea that animals also experience the world as people do with the idea that animals kill and eat other animals? Bears, for instance, are roughly as intelligent as a kindergartener, and yet happily kill and eat any other animals that they can. Pigs and crows are also omnivorous, and will eat any source of meat that they come across. They can all likewise avoid killing if they choose, yet they don't. Are they immoral? Or does morality only apply to humans? (Even animals that we traditionally think of as herbivorous are opportunistic meat eaters.)\n
        \n
        Second: What would you propose replacing animal products with, when there are no alternatives that function as well? What about when the alternative products also cause greater environmental harms?\n
        \n
        Third: So you would not have a problem with, for instance, hunting and eating invasive species, since those species cause more harm to existing ecosystems than *not* eradicating them would? What about when those invasive species are also highly intelligent, e.g. feral pigs? Or is it better to let them wreck existing ecosystems so that humans aren't causing harm? To drill down on that further, should humans allow harm to happen by failing to act, or should we cause harm to prevent greater harm?\n
        \n
        Fourth: "Exploiting" is such an interesting claim. Vegans are typically opposed to honey, since they view it as an exploitative product. Are you aware that without commercial apiaries, agriculture would collapse? That is, without exploiting honey bees, we are not capable of pollinating crops?\n
        \n
        Would you agree, given that all food production for humans causes environmental harm, that the only rational approach to eliminate that harm is the eradication of humanity?
        """
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        "@sociablefish@lemm.ee"
        "@NotAPenguin@kbin.social"
        "@HelixDab@kbin.social"
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      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1618 …}
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        date: 2023-07-18 14:14:09.0 +02:00
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    date: 2023-07-18 08:09:09.0 +02:00
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   …2
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
16 DENIED moderate 
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1683
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2098 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1576 …}
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  +slug: "What-s-the-worst-company-ever-Period"
  +title: "What's the worst company ever. Period."
  +url: null
  +body: "Nestle? Spectrum? Some random company nobody knows about?"
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      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1687 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1687 …}
      +body: """
        ...And how exactly do you think people are going to be able to eat meat otherwise? Or have dairy, eggs, wool, etc.? Do you think that people should e.g., raise chickens in the city?\n
        \n
        And that's ignoring the small obligate carnivores that make up most of the pets in the world.\n
        \n
        Hey, I'd rather hunt my own food too, but we no longer live in tribal or feudal societies where you can reasonably expect to engage in animal husbandry yourself.
        """
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        date: 2023-07-18 12:39:39.0 +02:00
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      +"title": 21640
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    0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1626
      +user: App\Entity\User {#260 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1683 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1576 …}
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      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1687 …}
      +body: """
        First: How do you reconcile that view with the idea that animals also experience the world as people do with the idea that animals kill and eat other animals? Bears, for instance, are roughly as intelligent as a kindergartener, and yet happily kill and eat any other animals that they can. Pigs and crows are also omnivorous, and will eat any source of meat that they come across. They can all likewise avoid killing if they choose, yet they don't. Are they immoral? Or does morality only apply to humans? (Even animals that we traditionally think of as herbivorous are opportunistic meat eaters.)\n
        \n
        Second: What would you propose replacing animal products with, when there are no alternatives that function as well? What about when the alternative products also cause greater environmental harms?\n
        \n
        Third: So you would not have a problem with, for instance, hunting and eating invasive species, since those species cause more harm to existing ecosystems than *not* eradicating them would? What about when those invasive species are also highly intelligent, e.g. feral pigs? Or is it better to let them wreck existing ecosystems so that humans aren't causing harm? To drill down on that further, should humans allow harm to happen by failing to act, or should we cause harm to prevent greater harm?\n
        \n
        Fourth: "Exploiting" is such an interesting claim. Vegans are typically opposed to honey, since they view it as an exploitative product. Are you aware that without commercial apiaries, agriculture would collapse? That is, without exploiting honey bees, we are not capable of pollinating crops?\n
        \n
        Would you agree, given that all food production for humans causes environmental harm, that the only rational approach to eliminate that harm is the eradication of humanity?
        """
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}
 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
17 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
18 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1701
  +user: App\Entity\User {#260 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1683
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2098 …}
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    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#1350 …}
    +slug: "What-s-the-worst-company-ever-Period"
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        +body: """
          First: How do you reconcile that view with the idea that animals also experience the world as people do with the idea that animals kill and eat other animals? Bears, for instance, are roughly as intelligent as a kindergartener, and yet happily kill and eat any other animals that they can. Pigs and crows are also omnivorous, and will eat any source of meat that they come across. They can all likewise avoid killing if they choose, yet they don't. Are they immoral? Or does morality only apply to humans? (Even animals that we traditionally think of as herbivorous are opportunistic meat eaters.)\n
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          Second: What would you propose replacing animal products with, when there are no alternatives that function as well? What about when the alternative products also cause greater environmental harms?\n
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          Third: So you would not have a problem with, for instance, hunting and eating invasive species, since those species cause more harm to existing ecosystems than *not* eradicating them would? What about when those invasive species are also highly intelligent, e.g. feral pigs? Or is it better to let them wreck existing ecosystems so that humans aren't causing harm? To drill down on that further, should humans allow harm to happen by failing to act, or should we cause harm to prevent greater harm?\n
          \n
          Fourth: "Exploiting" is such an interesting claim. Vegans are typically opposed to honey, since they view it as an exploitative product. Are you aware that without commercial apiaries, agriculture would collapse? That is, without exploiting honey bees, we are not capable of pollinating crops?\n
          \n
          Would you agree, given that all food production for humans causes environmental harm, that the only rational approach to eliminate that harm is the eradication of humanity?
          """
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      date: 2023-07-18 08:09:09.0 +02:00
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    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1576 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1687 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1687 …}
  +body: """
    ...And how exactly do you think people are going to be able to eat meat otherwise? Or have dairy, eggs, wool, etc.? Do you think that people should e.g., raise chickens in the city?\n
    \n
    And that's ignoring the small obligate carnivores that make up most of the pets in the world.\n
    \n
    Hey, I'd rather hunt my own food too, but we no longer live in tribal or feudal societies where you can reasonably expect to engage in animal husbandry yourself.
    """
  +lang: "en"
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    "@sociablefish@lemm.ee"
    "@NotAPenguin@kbin.social"
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  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1680 …}
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  -id: 21640
  -bodyTs: "'abl':12 'anim':80 'carnivor':42 'chicken':31 'citi':34 'd':55 'dairi':19 'e.g':29 'eat':14 'egg':20 'engag':78 'etc':22 'exact':3 'expect':76 'feudal':70 'food':60 'go':9 'hey':53 'hunt':57 'husbandri':81 'ignor':38 'live':66 'longer':65 'make':44 'meat':15 'oblig':41 'otherwis':16 'peopl':7,27 'pet':49 'rais':30 'rather':56 'reason':75 'small':40 'societi':71 'think':6,25 'tribal':68 'wool':21 'world':52"
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    date: 2023-07-18 12:39:39.0 +02:00
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  +"title": 21640
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
19 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1701
  +user: App\Entity\User {#260 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1683
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2098 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1576 …}
    +image: null
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#1350 …}
    +slug: "What-s-the-worst-company-ever-Period"
    +title: "What's the worst company ever. Period."
    +url: null
    +body: "Nestle? Spectrum? Some random company nobody knows about?"
    +type: "article"
    +lang: "en"
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    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2366 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2367 …}
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    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2603 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2600 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2616 …}
    +children: [
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1701}
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1626
        +user: App\Entity\User {#260 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1683 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1576 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1599 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1687 …}
        +body: """
          First: How do you reconcile that view with the idea that animals also experience the world as people do with the idea that animals kill and eat other animals? Bears, for instance, are roughly as intelligent as a kindergartener, and yet happily kill and eat any other animals that they can. Pigs and crows are also omnivorous, and will eat any source of meat that they come across. They can all likewise avoid killing if they choose, yet they don't. Are they immoral? Or does morality only apply to humans? (Even animals that we traditionally think of as herbivorous are opportunistic meat eaters.)\n
          \n
          Second: What would you propose replacing animal products with, when there are no alternatives that function as well? What about when the alternative products also cause greater environmental harms?\n
          \n
          Third: So you would not have a problem with, for instance, hunting and eating invasive species, since those species cause more harm to existing ecosystems than *not* eradicating them would? What about when those invasive species are also highly intelligent, e.g. feral pigs? Or is it better to let them wreck existing ecosystems so that humans aren't causing harm? To drill down on that further, should humans allow harm to happen by failing to act, or should we cause harm to prevent greater harm?\n
          \n
          Fourth: "Exploiting" is such an interesting claim. Vegans are typically opposed to honey, since they view it as an exploitative product. Are you aware that without commercial apiaries, agriculture would collapse? That is, without exploiting honey bees, we are not capable of pollinating crops?\n
          \n
          Would you agree, given that all food production for humans causes environmental harm, that the only rational approach to eliminate that harm is the eradication of humanity?
          """
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        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 6
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          "@sociablefish@lemm.ee"
          "@NotAPenguin@kbin.social"
          "@HelixDab@kbin.social"
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        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1618 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1597 …}
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        -id: 21710
        -bodyTs: "'across':68 'act':209 'agre':265 'agricultur':247 'allow':202 'also':13,56,129,171 'altern':118,127 'anim':12,24,29,48,93,111 'apiari':246 'appli':89 'approach':280 'aren':190 'avoid':73 'awar':242 'bear':30 'bee':255 'better':180 'capabl':259 'caus':130,153,192,213,273 'choos':77 'claim':225 'collaps':249 'come':67 'commerci':245 'crop':262 'crow':54 'drill':195 'e.g':174 'eat':27,45,60,147 'eater':104 'ecosystem':158,186 'elimin':282 'environment':132,274 'erad':161,287 'even':92 'exist':157,185 'experi':14 'exploit':220,238,253 'fail':207 'feral':175 'first':1 'food':269 'fourth':219 'function':120 'given':266 'greater':131,217 'happen':205 'happili':42 'harm':133,155,193,203,214,218,275,284 'herbivor':100 'high':172 'honey':231,254 'human':91,189,201,272,289 'hunt':145 'idea':10,22 'immor':84 'instanc':32,144 'intellig':36,173 'interest':224 'invas':148,168 'kill':25,43,74 'kindergarten':39 'let':182 'likewis':72 'meat':64,103 'moral':87 'omnivor':57 'opportunist':102 'oppos':229 'peopl':18 'pig':52,176 'pollin':261 'prevent':216 'problem':141 'product':112,128,239,270 'propos':109 'ration':279 'reconcil':5 'replac':110 'rough':34 'second':105 'sinc':150,232 'sourc':62 'speci':149,152,169 'think':97 'third':134 'tradit':96 'typic':228 'vegan':226 'view':7,234 'well':122 'without':244,252 'world':16 'would':107,137,163,248,263 'wreck':184 'yet':41,78"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1689682449 {#1628
          date: 2023-07-18 14:14:09.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 21710
      }
    ]
    -id: 1416
    -titleTs: "'compani':5 'ever':6 'period':7 'worst':4"
    -bodyTs: "'compani':5 'know':7 'nestl':1 'nobodi':6 'random':4 'spectrum':2"
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1689746949
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    +apId: "https://lemm.ee/post/1435002"
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1689660549 {#2074
      date: 2023-07-18 08:09:09.0 +02:00
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    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1576 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1687 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1687 …}
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    ...And how exactly do you think people are going to be able to eat meat otherwise? Or have dairy, eggs, wool, etc.? Do you think that people should e.g., raise chickens in the city?\n
    \n
    And that's ignoring the small obligate carnivores that make up most of the pets in the world.\n
    \n
    Hey, I'd rather hunt my own food too, but we no longer live in tribal or feudal societies where you can reasonably expect to engage in animal husbandry yourself.
    """
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    "@NotAPenguin@kbin.social"
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  -id: 21640
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    date: 2023-07-18 12:39:39.0 +02:00
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  +"title": 21640
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
20 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1701
  +user: App\Entity\User {#260 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1683
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2098 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1576 …}
    +image: null
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#1350 …}
    +slug: "What-s-the-worst-company-ever-Period"
    +title: "What's the worst company ever. Period."
    +url: null
    +body: "Nestle? Spectrum? Some random company nobody knows about?"
    +type: "article"
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    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2366 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2367 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1990 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2603 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2600 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2616 …}
    +children: [
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1701}
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1626
        +user: App\Entity\User {#260 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1683 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1576 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1599 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1687 …}
        +body: """
          First: How do you reconcile that view with the idea that animals also experience the world as people do with the idea that animals kill and eat other animals? Bears, for instance, are roughly as intelligent as a kindergartener, and yet happily kill and eat any other animals that they can. Pigs and crows are also omnivorous, and will eat any source of meat that they come across. They can all likewise avoid killing if they choose, yet they don't. Are they immoral? Or does morality only apply to humans? (Even animals that we traditionally think of as herbivorous are opportunistic meat eaters.)\n
          \n
          Second: What would you propose replacing animal products with, when there are no alternatives that function as well? What about when the alternative products also cause greater environmental harms?\n
          \n
          Third: So you would not have a problem with, for instance, hunting and eating invasive species, since those species cause more harm to existing ecosystems than *not* eradicating them would? What about when those invasive species are also highly intelligent, e.g. feral pigs? Or is it better to let them wreck existing ecosystems so that humans aren't causing harm? To drill down on that further, should humans allow harm to happen by failing to act, or should we cause harm to prevent greater harm?\n
          \n
          Fourth: "Exploiting" is such an interesting claim. Vegans are typically opposed to honey, since they view it as an exploitative product. Are you aware that without commercial apiaries, agriculture would collapse? That is, without exploiting honey bees, we are not capable of pollinating crops?\n
          \n
          Would you agree, given that all food production for humans causes environmental harm, that the only rational approach to eliminate that harm is the eradication of humanity?
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 6
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          "@sociablefish@lemm.ee"
          "@NotAPenguin@kbin.social"
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        -id: 21710
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        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-07-18 14:14:09.0 +02:00
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        +"title": 21710
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    ]
    -id: 1416
    -titleTs: "'compani':5 'ever':6 'period':7 'worst':4"
    -bodyTs: "'compani':5 'know':7 'nestl':1 'nobodi':6 'random':4 'spectrum':2"
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
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    +ranking: 1689746949
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    +apId: "https://lemm.ee/post/1435002"
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1689660549 {#2074
      date: 2023-07-18 08:09:09.0 +02:00
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    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1576 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1687 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1687 …}
  +body: """
    ...And how exactly do you think people are going to be able to eat meat otherwise? Or have dairy, eggs, wool, etc.? Do you think that people should e.g., raise chickens in the city?\n
    \n
    And that's ignoring the small obligate carnivores that make up most of the pets in the world.\n
    \n
    Hey, I'd rather hunt my own food too, but we no longer live in tribal or feudal societies where you can reasonably expect to engage in animal husbandry yourself.
    """
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    "@sociablefish@lemm.ee"
    "@NotAPenguin@kbin.social"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1680 …}
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  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1692 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1705 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1616 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1598 …}
  -id: 21640
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    date: 2023-07-18 12:39:39.0 +02:00
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}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
21 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
22 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1626
  +user: App\Entity\User {#260 …}
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    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1576 …}
    +image: null
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#1350 …}
    +slug: "What-s-the-worst-company-ever-Period"
    +title: "What's the worst company ever. Period."
    +url: null
    +body: "Nestle? Spectrum? Some random company nobody knows about?"
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      date: 2023-07-19 08:11:41.0 +02:00
    }
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    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2366 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2367 …}
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    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2600 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2616 …}
    +children: [
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1701
        +user: App\Entity\User {#260 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1683 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1576 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1687 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1687 …}
        +body: """
          ...And how exactly do you think people are going to be able to eat meat otherwise? Or have dairy, eggs, wool, etc.? Do you think that people should e.g., raise chickens in the city?\n
          \n
          And that's ignoring the small obligate carnivores that make up most of the pets in the world.\n
          \n
          Hey, I'd rather hunt my own food too, but we no longer live in tribal or feudal societies where you can reasonably expect to engage in animal husbandry yourself.
          """
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        +isAdult: false
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          "@sociablefish@lemm.ee"
          "@NotAPenguin@kbin.social"
        ]
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1689676779 {#1702
          date: 2023-07-18 12:39:39.0 +02:00
        }
        +"title": 21640
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1626}
    ]
    -id: 1416
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1689660549 {#2074
      date: 2023-07-18 08:09:09.0 +02:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1576 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1599 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1687 …}
  +body: """
    First: How do you reconcile that view with the idea that animals also experience the world as people do with the idea that animals kill and eat other animals? Bears, for instance, are roughly as intelligent as a kindergartener, and yet happily kill and eat any other animals that they can. Pigs and crows are also omnivorous, and will eat any source of meat that they come across. They can all likewise avoid killing if they choose, yet they don't. Are they immoral? Or does morality only apply to humans? (Even animals that we traditionally think of as herbivorous are opportunistic meat eaters.)\n
    \n
    Second: What would you propose replacing animal products with, when there are no alternatives that function as well? What about when the alternative products also cause greater environmental harms?\n
    \n
    Third: So you would not have a problem with, for instance, hunting and eating invasive species, since those species cause more harm to existing ecosystems than *not* eradicating them would? What about when those invasive species are also highly intelligent, e.g. feral pigs? Or is it better to let them wreck existing ecosystems so that humans aren't causing harm? To drill down on that further, should humans allow harm to happen by failing to act, or should we cause harm to prevent greater harm?\n
    \n
    Fourth: "Exploiting" is such an interesting claim. Vegans are typically opposed to honey, since they view it as an exploitative product. Are you aware that without commercial apiaries, agriculture would collapse? That is, without exploiting honey bees, we are not capable of pollinating crops?\n
    \n
    Would you agree, given that all food production for humans causes environmental harm, that the only rational approach to eliminate that harm is the eradication of humanity?
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
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    "@sociablefish@lemm.ee"
    "@NotAPenguin@kbin.social"
    "@HelixDab@kbin.social"
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  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1618 …}
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    date: 2023-07-18 14:14:09.0 +02:00
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  +"title": 21710
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
23 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1626
  +user: App\Entity\User {#260 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1683
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2098 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1576 …}
    +image: null
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#1350 …}
    +slug: "What-s-the-worst-company-ever-Period"
    +title: "What's the worst company ever. Period."
    +url: null
    +body: "Nestle? Spectrum? Some random company nobody knows about?"
    +type: "article"
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    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2366 …}
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    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2600 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2616 …}
    +children: [
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1701
        +user: App\Entity\User {#260 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1683 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1576 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1687 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1687 …}
        +body: """
          ...And how exactly do you think people are going to be able to eat meat otherwise? Or have dairy, eggs, wool, etc.? Do you think that people should e.g., raise chickens in the city?\n
          \n
          And that's ignoring the small obligate carnivores that make up most of the pets in the world.\n
          \n
          Hey, I'd rather hunt my own food too, but we no longer live in tribal or feudal societies where you can reasonably expect to engage in animal husbandry yourself.
          """
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          "@sociablefish@lemm.ee"
          "@NotAPenguin@kbin.social"
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        -id: 21640
        -bodyTs: "'abl':12 'anim':80 'carnivor':42 'chicken':31 'citi':34 'd':55 'dairi':19 'e.g':29 'eat':14 'egg':20 'engag':78 'etc':22 'exact':3 'expect':76 'feudal':70 'food':60 'go':9 'hey':53 'hunt':57 'husbandri':81 'ignor':38 'live':66 'longer':65 'make':44 'meat':15 'oblig':41 'otherwis':16 'peopl':7,27 'pet':49 'rais':30 'rather':56 'reason':75 'small':40 'societi':71 'think':6,25 'tribal':68 'wool':21 'world':52"
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          date: 2023-07-18 12:39:39.0 +02:00
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1626}
    ]
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      date: 2023-07-18 08:09:09.0 +02:00
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    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
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  +image: null
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  +body: """
    First: How do you reconcile that view with the idea that animals also experience the world as people do with the idea that animals kill and eat other animals? Bears, for instance, are roughly as intelligent as a kindergartener, and yet happily kill and eat any other animals that they can. Pigs and crows are also omnivorous, and will eat any source of meat that they come across. They can all likewise avoid killing if they choose, yet they don't. Are they immoral? Or does morality only apply to humans? (Even animals that we traditionally think of as herbivorous are opportunistic meat eaters.)\n
    \n
    Second: What would you propose replacing animal products with, when there are no alternatives that function as well? What about when the alternative products also cause greater environmental harms?\n
    \n
    Third: So you would not have a problem with, for instance, hunting and eating invasive species, since those species cause more harm to existing ecosystems than *not* eradicating them would? What about when those invasive species are also highly intelligent, e.g. feral pigs? Or is it better to let them wreck existing ecosystems so that humans aren't causing harm? To drill down on that further, should humans allow harm to happen by failing to act, or should we cause harm to prevent greater harm?\n
    \n
    Fourth: "Exploiting" is such an interesting claim. Vegans are typically opposed to honey, since they view it as an exploitative product. Are you aware that without commercial apiaries, agriculture would collapse? That is, without exploiting honey bees, we are not capable of pollinating crops?\n
    \n
    Would you agree, given that all food production for humans causes environmental harm, that the only rational approach to eliminate that harm is the eradication of humanity?
    """
  +lang: "en"
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    "@NotAPenguin@kbin.social"
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}
 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
24 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1626
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    +image: null
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    +slug: "What-s-the-worst-company-ever-Period"
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        +body: """
          ...And how exactly do you think people are going to be able to eat meat otherwise? Or have dairy, eggs, wool, etc.? Do you think that people should e.g., raise chickens in the city?\n
          \n
          And that's ignoring the small obligate carnivores that make up most of the pets in the world.\n
          \n
          Hey, I'd rather hunt my own food too, but we no longer live in tribal or feudal societies where you can reasonably expect to engage in animal husbandry yourself.
          """
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      date: 2023-07-18 08:09:09.0 +02:00
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    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
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  +image: null
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  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1687 …}
  +body: """
    First: How do you reconcile that view with the idea that animals also experience the world as people do with the idea that animals kill and eat other animals? Bears, for instance, are roughly as intelligent as a kindergartener, and yet happily kill and eat any other animals that they can. Pigs and crows are also omnivorous, and will eat any source of meat that they come across. They can all likewise avoid killing if they choose, yet they don't. Are they immoral? Or does morality only apply to humans? (Even animals that we traditionally think of as herbivorous are opportunistic meat eaters.)\n
    \n
    Second: What would you propose replacing animal products with, when there are no alternatives that function as well? What about when the alternative products also cause greater environmental harms?\n
    \n
    Third: So you would not have a problem with, for instance, hunting and eating invasive species, since those species cause more harm to existing ecosystems than *not* eradicating them would? What about when those invasive species are also highly intelligent, e.g. feral pigs? Or is it better to let them wreck existing ecosystems so that humans aren't causing harm? To drill down on that further, should humans allow harm to happen by failing to act, or should we cause harm to prevent greater harm?\n
    \n
    Fourth: "Exploiting" is such an interesting claim. Vegans are typically opposed to honey, since they view it as an exploitative product. Are you aware that without commercial apiaries, agriculture would collapse? That is, without exploiting honey bees, we are not capable of pollinating crops?\n
    \n
    Would you agree, given that all food production for humans causes environmental harm, that the only rational approach to eliminate that harm is the eradication of humanity?
    """
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