GET https://kbin.spritesserver.nl/m/asklemmy@lemmy.world/t/4842/At-what-point-is-violence-on-a-large-scale-justified/comment/47221/votes/up

Response
200 OK
IP
3.17.5.44
Profiled on
Token
279a34

Security

Token

There is no security token.

Firewall

main Name
Security enabled
Stateless

Configuration

Key Value
provider security.user.provider.concrete.app_user_provider
context main
entry_point App\Security\KbinAuthenticator
user_checker App\Security\UserChecker
access_denied_handler (none)
access_denied_url (none)
authenticators 
[
  "two_factor"
  "remember_me"
  "App\Security\KbinAuthenticator"
  "App\Security\FacebookAuthenticator"
  "App\Security\GoogleAuthenticator"
  "App\Security\GithubAuthenticator"
  "App\Security\KeycloakAuthenticator"
]

Listeners

Listener Duration Response 
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\ChannelListener {#723
  -map: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\AccessMap {#722 …}
  -logger: Monolog\Logger {#783 …}
  -httpPort: 80
  -httpsPort: 443
}
 0.00 ms (none) 
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\ContextListener {#706
  -tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\TokenStorage {#1017 …}
  -sessionKey: "_security_main"
  -logger: Monolog\Logger {#783 …}
  -userProviders: Symfony\Component\DependencyInjection\Argument\RewindableGenerator {#705 …}
  -dispatcher: Symfony\Component\EventDispatcher\Debug\TraceableEventDispatcher {#747 …}
  -registered: false
  -trustResolver: Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authentication\AuthenticationTrustResolver {#780 …}
  -sessionTrackerEnabler: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage::enableUsageTracking(): void {#703 …}
}
 0.75 ms (none) 
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\AuthenticatorManagerListener {#584
  -authenticatorManager: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Authentication\AuthenticatorManager {#595 …}
}
 0.00 ms (none) 
Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Http\Firewall\TwoFactorAccessListener {#582
  -twoFactorFirewallConfig: Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\TwoFactor\TwoFactorFirewallConfig {#842 …}
  -tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage {#1018 …}
  -twoFactorAccessDecider: Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\TwoFactorAccessDecider {#581 …}
}
 0.04 ms (none) 
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\AccessListener {#579
  -tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage {#1018 …}
  -accessDecisionManager: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\TraceableAccessDecisionManager {#937 …}
  -map: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\AccessMap {#722 …}
}
 0.00 ms (none) 
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\LogoutListener {#786
  -tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage {#1018 …}
  -options: [
    "csrf_parameter" => "_csrf_token"
    "csrf_token_id" => "logout"
    "logout_path" => "app_logout"
  ]
  -httpUtils: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\HttpUtils {#841 …}
  -csrfTokenManager: Symfony\Component\Security\Csrf\CsrfTokenManager {#1015 …}
  -eventDispatcher: Symfony\Component\EventDispatcher\Debug\TraceableEventDispatcher {#747 …}
}
 0.00 ms (none)

Authenticators

No authenticators have been recorded. Check previous profiles on your authentication endpoint.

Access Decision

affirmative Strategy
# Voter class
1 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\AuthenticatedVoter"
2 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
3 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
4 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\ExpressionVoter"
5 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
6 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
7 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
8 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
9 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
10 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
11 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
12 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
13 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
14 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"

Access decision log

# Result Attributes Object
1 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
2 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1365
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1378 …}
  +entry: App\Entity\Entry {#1810 …}
  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#313
    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#294 …}
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      A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
      -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      **Rules: (interactive)**\n
      ------------------------\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
      \n
      Partnered Communities:\n
      ----------------------\n
      \n
      [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
      """
    +rules: null
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    +entryCount: 1179
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      date: 2024-10-22 09:47:25.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +tags: null
    +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#285 …}
    +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#281 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#270 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#228 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#186 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#248 …}
    +bans: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#165 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#151 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#129 …}
    +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#119 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#108 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#95 …}
    -id: 49
    +apId: "asklemmy@lemmy.world"
    +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmy"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmy"
    +apFollowersUrl: "https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmy/followers"
    +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.world/inbox"
    +apDomain: "lemmy.world"
    +apPreferredUsername: "asklemmy"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1729583301 {#322
      date: 2024-10-22 09:48:21.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697177027 {#316
      date: 2023-10-13 08:03:47.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2356 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2476 …}
  +body: """
    Ok, let’s stay within the confines of individual self-preservation.\n
    \n
    If it is necessary for you to have a new organ to survive, but not enough are available through organ donation programs, does the fact that it is necessary to your survival mean that acquiring an organ from an unwilling donor (directly or though black market proxy) is a justified action?\n
    \n
    How about a murderer that killed someone and left witnesses? If they are caught, it would mean they are sentenced to death. So it is necessary for their continued self-preservation to minimize the chances of being caught. Does that make their murder of the witnesses of their earlier crime justified?\n
    \n
    Your pithy take on necessity = justification is BS at even a cursory examination.\n
    \n
    I’m not saying that we shouldn’t have freed the slaves. Just that neither the Union nor the Confederate killing of each other was justified. I’m not saying that the US shouldn’t have fought in WW2. Just that bombing Hiroshima wasn’t justified.\n
    \n
    You are the one conflating necessity with justification. And as such you seem to not be able to wrap your head around that while I’m saying mass violence is never justified, that doesn’t mean I’m saying the relative necessity for admirable goals means it was in the best interest of the US to have had a show of overwhelming force at the end of the WW2 conflict in mind of Stalin’s USSR post-war or that Sherman was wise to burn crops as he marched through the South to reduce supplies for Confederate opposition.\n
    \n
    Edit: Also, thank you for making my point about how the notion of justified violence is a slippery slope that can easily end up justifying atrocities by relativist moralizing there with the whole “by any means necessary.”
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 1
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1697238234 {#1605
    date: 2023-10-14 01:03:54.0 +02:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@BmeBenji@lemm.ee"
    "@kromem@lemmy.world"
    "@nyar@lemmy.world"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2355 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2167 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2424 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2440 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2490 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2409 …}
  -id: 47221
  -bodyTs: "'abl':191 'acquir':47 'action':63 'admir':218 'also':275 'around':196 'atroc':299 'avail':30 'best':225 'black':57 'bomb':170 'bs':123 'burn':260 'caught':77,102 'chanc':99 'confeder':148,272 'confin':7 'conflat':179 'conflict':244 'continu':92 'crime':114 'crop':261 'cursori':127 'death':85 'direct':54 'doesn':208 'donat':33 'donor':53 'earlier':113 'easili':295 'edit':274 'end':240,296 'enough':28 'even':125 'examin':128 'fact':37 'forc':237 'fought':165 'freed':138 'goal':219 'head':195 'hiroshima':171 'individu':9 'interest':226 'justif':121,182 'justifi':62,115,154,174,206,287,298 'kill':69,149 'left':72 'let':2 'm':130,156,200,212 'make':105,279 'march':264 'market':58 'mass':202 'mean':45,80,210,220,309 'mind':246 'minim':97 'moral':302 'murder':67,107 'necess':120,180,216 'necessari':16,41,89,310 'neither':143 'never':205 'new':22 'notion':285 'ok':1 'one':178 'opposit':273 'organ':23,32,49 'overwhelm':236 'pithi':117 'point':281 'post':252 'post-war':251 'preserv':12,95 'program':34 'proxi':59 'reduc':269 'relat':215 'relativist':301 'say':132,158,201,213 'seem':187 'self':11,94 'self-preserv':10,93 'sentenc':83 'sherman':256 'shouldn':135,162 'show':234 'slave':140 'slipperi':291 'slope':292 'someon':70 'south':267 'stalin':248 'stay':4 'suppli':270 'surviv':25,44 'take':118 'thank':276 'though':56 'union':145 'unwil':52 'us':161,229 'ussr':250 'violenc':203,288 'war':253 'wasn':172 'whole':306 'wise':258 'wit':73,110 'within':5 'would':79 'wrap':193 'ww2':167,243"
  +ranking: 0
  +commentCount: 0
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://lemmy.world/comment/4513062"
  +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697238422 {#1377
    date: 2023-10-14 01:07:02.0 +02:00
  }
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697238234 {#1927
    date: 2023-10-14 01:03:54.0 +02:00
  }
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
3 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1365
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1378 …}
  +entry: App\Entity\Entry {#1810 …}
  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#313
    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#294 …}
    +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.world"
    +title: "asklemmy"
    +description: """
      A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
      -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      **Rules: (interactive)**\n
      ------------------------\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
      \n
      Partnered Communities:\n
      ----------------------\n
      \n
      [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
      """
    +rules: null
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    +markedForDeletionAt: null
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    +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#285 …}
    +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#281 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#270 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#228 …}
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    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#248 …}
    +bans: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#165 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#151 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#129 …}
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    -id: 49
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    +apFollowersUrl: "https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmy/followers"
    +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.world/inbox"
    +apDomain: "lemmy.world"
    +apPreferredUsername: "asklemmy"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
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    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1729583301 {#322
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    +apDeletedAt: null
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    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697177027 {#316
      date: 2023-10-13 08:03:47.0 +02:00
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  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2356 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2476 …}
  +body: """
    Ok, let’s stay within the confines of individual self-preservation.\n
    \n
    If it is necessary for you to have a new organ to survive, but not enough are available through organ donation programs, does the fact that it is necessary to your survival mean that acquiring an organ from an unwilling donor (directly or though black market proxy) is a justified action?\n
    \n
    How about a murderer that killed someone and left witnesses? If they are caught, it would mean they are sentenced to death. So it is necessary for their continued self-preservation to minimize the chances of being caught. Does that make their murder of the witnesses of their earlier crime justified?\n
    \n
    Your pithy take on necessity = justification is BS at even a cursory examination.\n
    \n
    I’m not saying that we shouldn’t have freed the slaves. Just that neither the Union nor the Confederate killing of each other was justified. I’m not saying that the US shouldn’t have fought in WW2. Just that bombing Hiroshima wasn’t justified.\n
    \n
    You are the one conflating necessity with justification. And as such you seem to not be able to wrap your head around that while I’m saying mass violence is never justified, that doesn’t mean I’m saying the relative necessity for admirable goals means it was in the best interest of the US to have had a show of overwhelming force at the end of the WW2 conflict in mind of Stalin’s USSR post-war or that Sherman was wise to burn crops as he marched through the South to reduce supplies for Confederate opposition.\n
    \n
    Edit: Also, thank you for making my point about how the notion of justified violence is a slippery slope that can easily end up justifying atrocities by relativist moralizing there with the whole “by any means necessary.”
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 1
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1697238234 {#1605
    date: 2023-10-14 01:03:54.0 +02:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@BmeBenji@lemm.ee"
    "@kromem@lemmy.world"
    "@nyar@lemmy.world"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2355 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2167 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2424 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2440 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2490 …}
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4 DENIED moderate 
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      ---\n
      \n
      **Rules: (interactive)**\n
      ------------------------\n
      \n
      ---\n
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      1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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      4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
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      ---\n
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      5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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      ---\n
      \n
      Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
      \n
      Partnered Communities:\n
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      \n
      [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
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      [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
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      [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
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      [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
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      ---\n
      \n
      Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      ---\n
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  +body: """
    Ok, let’s stay within the confines of individual self-preservation.\n
    \n
    If it is necessary for you to have a new organ to survive, but not enough are available through organ donation programs, does the fact that it is necessary to your survival mean that acquiring an organ from an unwilling donor (directly or though black market proxy) is a justified action?\n
    \n
    How about a murderer that killed someone and left witnesses? If they are caught, it would mean they are sentenced to death. So it is necessary for their continued self-preservation to minimize the chances of being caught. Does that make their murder of the witnesses of their earlier crime justified?\n
    \n
    Your pithy take on necessity = justification is BS at even a cursory examination.\n
    \n
    I’m not saying that we shouldn’t have freed the slaves. Just that neither the Union nor the Confederate killing of each other was justified. I’m not saying that the US shouldn’t have fought in WW2. Just that bombing Hiroshima wasn’t justified.\n
    \n
    You are the one conflating necessity with justification. And as such you seem to not be able to wrap your head around that while I’m saying mass violence is never justified, that doesn’t mean I’m saying the relative necessity for admirable goals means it was in the best interest of the US to have had a show of overwhelming force at the end of the WW2 conflict in mind of Stalin’s USSR post-war or that Sherman was wise to burn crops as he marched through the South to reduce supplies for Confederate opposition.\n
    \n
    Edit: Also, thank you for making my point about how the notion of justified violence is a slippery slope that can easily end up justifying atrocities by relativist moralizing there with the whole “by any means necessary.”
    """
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Show voter details
5 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\Magazine {#313
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    A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
    -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
    \n
    ---\n
    \n
    **Rules: (interactive)**\n
    ------------------------\n
    \n
    ---\n
    \n
    1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
    \n
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    \n
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    \n
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    \n
    [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
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    [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
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    [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
    \n
    ---\n
    \n
    Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
    \n
    ---\n
    \n
    ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
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Show voter details