GET https://kbin.spritesserver.nl/u/@lemmyvore@feddit.nl/commented/1y?p=9

Components

21 Twig Components
295 Render Count
2599 ms Render Time
24.0 MiB Memory Usage

Components

Name Metadata Render Count Render Time
date
"App\Twig\Components\DateComponent"
components/date.html.twig
39 81.94ms
user_inline
"App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent"
components/user_inline.html.twig
38 132.41ms
date_edited
"App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent"
components/date_edited.html.twig
38 22.04ms
vote
"App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent"
components/vote.html.twig
37 24.52ms
boost
"App\Twig\Components\BoostComponent"
components/boost.html.twig
37 81.33ms
entry_comment
"App\Twig\Components\EntryCommentComponent"
components/entry_comment.html.twig
25 1,548.49ms
user_avatar
"App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent"
components/user_avatar.html.twig
25 50.36ms
settings_row_switch
"App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent"
components/_settings_row_switch.html.twig
15 2.40ms
entry
"App\Twig\Components\EntryComponent"
components/_cached.html.twig
13 1,015.62ms
magazine_inline
"App\Twig\Components\MagazineInlineComponent"
components/magazine_inline.html.twig
13 16.08ms
user_settings_row_switch
"App\Twig\Components\UserSettingsRowSwitchComponent"
components/_user_settings_row_switch.html.twig
4 0.87ms
settings_row_enum
"App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowEnumComponent"
components/_settings_row_enum.html.twig
2 0.47ms
user_box
"App\Twig\Components\UserBoxComponent"
components/user_box.html.twig
1 4.65ms
user_actions
"App\Twig\Components\UserActionsComponent"
components/user_actions.html.twig
1 1.23ms
related_magazines
"App\Twig\Components\RelatedMagazinesComponent"
components/_cached.html.twig
1 2.54ms
active_users
"App\Twig\Components\ActiveUsersComponent"
components/_cached.html.twig
1 0.27ms
related_categories
"App\Twig\Components\RelatedCategoriesComponent"
components/_cached.html.twig
1 14.03ms
related_posts
"App\Twig\Components\RelatedPostsComponent"
components/_cached.html.twig
1 6.89ms
related_entries
"App\Twig\Components\RelatedEntriesComponent"
components/_cached.html.twig
1 2.15ms
support_us_block
"App\Twig\Components\SupportUsBlock"
components/_cached.html.twig
1 0.28ms
featured_magazines
"App\Twig\Components\FeaturedMagazinesComponent"
components/_cached.html.twig
1 0.96ms

Render calls

user_box App\Twig\Components\UserBoxComponent 12.0 MiB 4.65 ms
Input props
[
  "user" => App\Entity\User {#259
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +username: "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1727573233 {#267
      date: 2024-09-29 03:27:13.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: true
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: false
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
    +isVerified: false
    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#231 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#161 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#134 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#104 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#77 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#92 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1816 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1851 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1868 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1594 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1602 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1768 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1862 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1836 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1846 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1831 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2410 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1955 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2399 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1911 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1914 …}
    +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1884 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1915 …}
    -id: 5129
    -password: "$2y$13$/vteljm8CiRSKlQjOelDZefgFTbMgXd9zTn7W2zbMetE/IgF5X85q"
    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1950 …}
    +apId: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +apProfileId: "https://feddit.nl/u/lemmyvore"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://feddit.nl/u/lemmyvore"
    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://feddit.nl/inbox"
    +apDomain: "feddit.nl"
    +apPreferredUsername: "lemmyvore"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1727039733 {#272
      date: 2024-09-22 23:15:33.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687169920 {#269
      date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  "stretchedLink" => false
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserBoxComponent {#3286
  +user: App\Entity\User {#259
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +username: "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1727573233 {#267
      date: 2024-09-29 03:27:13.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: true
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: false
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
    +isVerified: false
    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#231 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#161 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#134 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#104 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#77 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#92 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1816 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1851 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1868 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1594 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1602 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1768 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1862 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1836 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1846 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1831 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2410 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1955 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2399 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1911 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1914 …}
    +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1884 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1915 …}
    -id: 5129
    -password: "$2y$13$/vteljm8CiRSKlQjOelDZefgFTbMgXd9zTn7W2zbMetE/IgF5X85q"
    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1950 …}
    +apId: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +apProfileId: "https://feddit.nl/u/lemmyvore"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://feddit.nl/u/lemmyvore"
    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://feddit.nl/inbox"
    +apDomain: "feddit.nl"
    +apPreferredUsername: "lemmyvore"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1727039733 {#272
      date: 2024-09-22 23:15:33.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687169920 {#269
      date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  +stretchedLink: false
}
user_actions App\Twig\Components\UserActionsComponent 12.0 MiB 1.23 ms
Input props
[
  "user" => App\Entity\User {#259
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +username: "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1727573233 {#267
      date: 2024-09-29 03:27:13.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: true
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: false
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
    +isVerified: false
    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#231 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#161 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#134 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#104 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#77 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#92 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1816 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1851 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1868 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1594 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1602 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1768 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1862 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1836 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1846 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1831 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2410 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1955 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2399 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1911 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1914 …}
    +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1884 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1915 …}
    -id: 5129
    -password: "$2y$13$/vteljm8CiRSKlQjOelDZefgFTbMgXd9zTn7W2zbMetE/IgF5X85q"
    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1950 …}
    +apId: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +apProfileId: "https://feddit.nl/u/lemmyvore"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://feddit.nl/u/lemmyvore"
    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://feddit.nl/inbox"
    +apDomain: "feddit.nl"
    +apPreferredUsername: "lemmyvore"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1727039733 {#272
      date: 2024-09-22 23:15:33.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687169920 {#269
      date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
    }
  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserActionsComponent {#3468
  +user: App\Entity\User {#259
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +username: "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1727573233 {#267
      date: 2024-09-29 03:27:13.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: true
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: false
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
    +isVerified: false
    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#231 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#161 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#134 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#104 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#77 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#92 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1816 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1851 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1868 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1594 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1602 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1768 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1862 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1836 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1846 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1831 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2410 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1955 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2399 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1911 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1914 …}
    +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1884 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1915 …}
    -id: 5129
    -password: "$2y$13$/vteljm8CiRSKlQjOelDZefgFTbMgXd9zTn7W2zbMetE/IgF5X85q"
    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1950 …}
    +apId: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +apProfileId: "https://feddit.nl/u/lemmyvore"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://feddit.nl/u/lemmyvore"
    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://feddit.nl/inbox"
    +apDomain: "feddit.nl"
    +apPreferredUsername: "lemmyvore"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1727039733 {#272
      date: 2024-09-22 23:15:33.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687169920 {#269
      date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
    }
  }
}
entry App\Twig\Components\EntryComponent 12.0 MiB 12.89 ms
Input props
[
  "entry" => Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1361
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2999
      +avatar: null
      +cover: null
      +email: "theshatterstone54@feddit.uk"
      +username: "@theshatterstone54@feddit.uk"
      +roles: []
      +followersCount: 0
      +homepage: "front"
      +about: null
      +lastActive: DateTime @1726513116 {#4713
        date: 2024-09-16 20:58:36.0 +02:00
      }
      +markedForDeletionAt: null
      +fields: null
      +oauthGithubId: null
      +oauthGoogleId: null
      +oauthFacebookId: null
      +oauthKeycloakId: null
      +hideAdult: true
      +showSubscribedUsers: true
      +showSubscribedMagazines: true
      +showSubscribedDomains: true
      +preferredLanguages: []
      +featuredMagazines: null
      +showProfileSubscriptions: true
      +showProfileFollowings: true
      +markNewComments: false
      +notifyOnNewEntry: false
      +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
      +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
      +notifyOnNewPost: false
      +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
      +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: false
      +addMentionsEntries: false
      +addMentionsPosts: true
      +isBanned: false
      +isVerified: false
      +isDeleted: false
      +isBot: false
      +spamProtection: true
      +customCss: null
      +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
      +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4716 …}
      +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4718 …}
      +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4720 …}
      +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4722 …}
      +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4724 …}
      +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4726 …}
      +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4728 …}
      +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4730 …}
      +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4732 …}
      +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4734 …}
      +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4736 …}
      +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4738 …}
      +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4740 …}
      +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4742 …}
      +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4744 …}
      +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4746 …}
      +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4748 …}
      +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4750 …}
      +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4752 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4754 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4756 …}
      +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4758 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4760 …}
      +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4762 …}
      +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4764 …}
      +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4766 …}
      -id: 24773
      -password: "$2y$13$SmdkWrYtnfaE6w20Vw9rAeuR27So5iybDZPh/qbSSSLamn4qV/d8K"
      -totpSecret: null
      -totpBackupCodes: []
      -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4768 …}
      +apId: "theshatterstone54@feddit.uk"
      +apProfileId: "https://feddit.uk/u/theshatterstone54"
      +apPublicUrl: "https://feddit.uk/u/theshatterstone54"
      +apFollowersUrl: null
      +apInboxUrl: "https://feddit.uk/inbox"
      +apDomain: "feddit.uk"
      +apPreferredUsername: "theshatterstone54"
      +apDiscoverable: true
      +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
      +privateKey: null
      +publicKey: null
      +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1727420130 {#4714
        date: 2024-09-27 08:55:30.0 +02:00
      }
      +apDeletedAt: null
      +apTimeoutAt: null
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1689155858 {#4715
        date: 2023-07-12 11:57:38.0 +02:00
      }
      +__isInitialized__: true
       …2
    }
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585
      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#4079 …}
      +name: "linux@lemmy.ml"
      +title: "linux"
      +description: """
        From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
        \n
        Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).\n
        \n
        Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.\n
        \n
        ### Rules\n
        \n
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    +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
    +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
    +url: null
    +body: """
      Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
      \n
      This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
      \n
      Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
      \n
      ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
      \n
      - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
      - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
      - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
      - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
      \n
      …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
      \n
      In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
      \n
      As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
      \n
      Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
      \n
      And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
      \n
      As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
      \n
      Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
      - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
      - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
      - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
      - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
      - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
      \n
      Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
      - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
      \n
      Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
      - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
      - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
      - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
      - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
      \n
      Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
      \n
      DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
      \n
      Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
      \n
      As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
      - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
      - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
      \n
      Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
      - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
      - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
      - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
      - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
      - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
      - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
      - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
      - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
      - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
      - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
      - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
      \n
      And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
      """
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        +body: """
          > You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
          \n
          All I see is a rift in the community over one side pushing software that’s beta-quality at best, and acting very arrogant and dismissive towards real adoption impediments.\n
          \n
          Which is par for the course for Linux, naturally, but “it’s happening” is wishful thinking at this stage. At this rate and with this attitude it will take at least another 5 years.\n
          \n
          Wayland’s worst enemy is its own fans.
          """
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        +body: """
          “Linux” is not an entity with well defined goals, it’s a community that mostly does whatever it wants. That has the fortunate side effect of producing labors of love in software, that prove really useful in the real world. But it also ignores things like user experience, which affect things like the desktop the most.\n
          \n
          On Linux the user is a second-class citizen, because worth in the community is determined by how much a person contributes (in code, testing, artwork, documentation etc.)\n
          \n
          The Linux mindset is best expressed by a quote from Simon Travaglia (which I paraphrase because I don’t remember it verbatim): “We’re tasked with the well-being of the servers, not the users. They’re lucky we even let them log in since users technically *upset* the smooth operation of the servers.”
          """
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          "@michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
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        +body: """
          I’m glad Wayland solves problems for you, but it creates them for others.\n
          \n
          Imagine being forced to go the other way. Could you be coerced into going back to Xorg? What would you do if a distro attempted to do that to you?
          """
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1363
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        +body: """
          You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
          \n
          Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
          """
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2312
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          > but why should AMD, Intel and NVIDIA care about Linux desktop\n
          \n
          They care because it’s free testing for their more lucrative Linux-based products. We’re their lab rats.
          """
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2325
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        +body: """
          They aren’t facts, again, they’re wishful thinking. I’m a long time contributor and developer and I can assure you that with things as complex as X and Wayland things would move slowly even if everybody was of the same mind, let alone in the “herding cats” style of FOSS.\n
          \n
          Wayland has been in development for 15 years and it’s still not ready – please, it’s not, and stomping our feet and claiming otherwise won’t make it so. Another 5 years will probably see it reach a more stable state.\n
          \n
          What do I mean by ready? Well the desktop stack [on Linux and *NIX] is extremely complex. Whenever you’re dealing with something extremely complex in software, over the years, you amass a large amount of solutions that solve real world problems. That’s what I call “ready”. Most of those solutions will be dealing with quirks and use cases which do not affect everybody equally, but they’re each crucial in their own way to a varying slice of the userbase.\n
          \n
          Whenever you rewrite something from scratch you throw away the bulk of those quirks. It’s a common fallacy for developers to look at the shiny new thing and think that it’s better. In reality it’s worthless without the quirks, and accumulating those quirks all over again takes a long time. X has been accumulating them for 40 years. Wayland is barely scratching the surface.\n
          \n
          The fact the protocol places and splits the burden over the various DE and WM teams will NOT help. We will need libraries that solve the same problem once instead of over and over, and most DE/WM will come to depend on those libraries. The end result will be eerily similar to X. Ironically, by the time Wayland will be done it will have spent a comparable time in development to X, and will have accumulated the same amount of baggage that people dislike about X.\n
          \n
          > What percentage of the Linux Desktop universe are you expecting will still be using X at the end of 2025?\n
          \n
          More or less the same that’s using X right now. GNOME, KDE and the various distros will get a bloody nose trying to force Wayland through but if that’s the only way they learn, so be it.\n
          \n
          The Steam Deck actually has one of the few use cases where Wayland actually makes sense, it’s a turnkey, highly controlled stack (both software and hardware) where users don’t have any reasons to care about what’s under the hood. I expect them to switch ASAP.\n
          \n
          Another place where Wayland can be used straightaway is the desktop graphical login screen (which is the original reason it was created for anyway). It’s a singular application with reduced requirements and simplistic interactions.
          """
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      Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
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      This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
      \n
      Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
      \n
      ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
      \n
      - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
      - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
      - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
      - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
      \n
      …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
      \n
      In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
      \n
      As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
      \n
      Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
      \n
      And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
      \n
      As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
      \n
      Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
      - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
      - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
      - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
      - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
      - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
      \n
      Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
      - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
      \n
      Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
      - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
      - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
      - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
      - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
      \n
      Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
      \n
      DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
      \n
      Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
      \n
      As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
      - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
      - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
      \n
      Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
      - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
      - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
      - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
      - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
      - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
      - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
      - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
      - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
      - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
      - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
      - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
      \n
      And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
      """
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            date: 2024-09-22 23:15:33.0 +02:00
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            date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
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        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1361 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …2}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2090 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1403 …}
        +body: """
          > You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
          \n
          All I see is a rift in the community over one side pushing software that’s beta-quality at best, and acting very arrogant and dismissive towards real adoption impediments.\n
          \n
          Which is par for the course for Linux, naturally, but “it’s happening” is wishful thinking at this stage. At this rate and with this attitude it will take at least another 5 years.\n
          \n
          Wayland’s worst enemy is its own fans.
          """
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          "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
          "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
          "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
          "@LeFantome@programming.dev"
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        -id: 141068
        -bodyTs: "'5':74 'act':33 'adopt':40 'anoth':73 'arrog':35 'attitud':67 'best':31 'beta':28 'beta-qu':27 'communiti':19 'cours':47 'dismiss':37 'enemi':79 'fan':83 'forgot':2 'happen':10,54 'impedi':41 'least':72 'linux':49 'natur':50 'one':21 'par':44 'part':4 'push':23 'qualiti':29 'rate':63 'real':39 'rift':16 'see':13 'side':22 'softwar':24 'stage':60 'take':70 'think':57 'toward':38 'wayland':76 'wish':56 'worst':78 'year':75"
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          date: 2023-11-19 22:48:05.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 141068
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      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2083
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        +body: """
          “Linux” is not an entity with well defined goals, it’s a community that mostly does whatever it wants. That has the fortunate side effect of producing labors of love in software, that prove really useful in the real world. But it also ignores things like user experience, which affect things like the desktop the most.\n
          \n
          On Linux the user is a second-class citizen, because worth in the community is determined by how much a person contributes (in code, testing, artwork, documentation etc.)\n
          \n
          The Linux mindset is best expressed by a quote from Simon Travaglia (which I paraphrase because I don’t remember it verbatim): “We’re tasked with the well-being of the servers, not the users. They’re lucky we even let them log in since users technically *upset* the smooth operation of the servers.”
          """
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          "@theshatterstone54@feddit.uk"
          "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
          "@michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
          "@LeFantome@programming.dev"
        ]
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        -bodyTs: "'affect':50 'also':43 'artwork':83 'best':90 'citizen':66 'class':65 'code':81 'communiti':13,71 'contribut':79 'defin':8 'desktop':54 'determin':73 'document':84 'effect':25 'entiti':5 'etc':85 'even':126 'experi':48 'express':91 'fortun':23 'goal':9 'ignor':44 'labor':28 'let':127 'like':46,52 'linux':1,58,87 'log':129 'love':30 'lucki':124 'mindset':88 'most':15 'much':76 'oper':137 'paraphras':100 'person':78 'produc':27 'prove':34 'quot':94 're':109,123 'real':39 'realli':35 'rememb':105 'second':64 'second-class':63 'server':118,140 'side':24 'simon':96 'sinc':131 'smooth':136 'softwar':32 'task':110 'technic':133 'test':82 'thing':45,51 'travaglia':97 'upset':134 'use':36 'user':47,60,121,132 'verbatim':107 'want':19 'well':7,114 'well-b':113 'whatev':17 'world':40 'worth':68"
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          date: 2023-11-19 22:36:06.0 +01:00
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      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2012
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1403 …}
        +body: """
          I’m glad Wayland solves problems for you, but it creates them for others.\n
          \n
          Imagine being forced to go the other way. Could you be coerced into going back to Xorg? What would you do if a distro attempted to do that to you?
          """
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          "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
          "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
          "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
        ]
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        -id: 140989
        -bodyTs: "'attempt':39 'back':29 'coerc':26 'could':23 'creat':11 'distro':38 'forc':17 'glad':3 'go':19,28 'imagin':15 'm':2 'other':14 'problem':6 'solv':5 'way':22 'wayland':4 'would':33 'xorg':31"
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          date: 2023-11-19 22:21:07.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 140989
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1363
        +user: App\Entity\User {#259}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1361 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …2}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1362 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1403 …}
        +body: """
          You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
          \n
          Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
          """
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        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-11-19 03:09:37.0 +01:00
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          "@theshatterstone54@feddit.uk"
          "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
          "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
        ]
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        -id: 138758
        -bodyTs: "'adopt':44 'better':36 'come':40 'everyth':16 'featur':14 'fine':18 'forc':43 'forgot':2 'happen':28 'let':26 'll':39 'make':47 'natur':29 'need':9 'part':4 'peopl':23,48 'push':22 'readi':34 'reduc':13 'resent':49 'stop':21 'toward':24 'tri':41 'wayland':10,25 'work':17 'xorg':20"
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2312
        +user: App\Entity\User {#259}
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        +body: """
          > but why should AMD, Intel and NVIDIA care about Linux desktop\n
          \n
          They care because it’s free testing for their more lucrative Linux-based products. We’re their lab rats.
          """
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          "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
          "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
          "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
        ]
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2325
        +user: App\Entity\User {#259}
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …2}
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        +body: """
          They aren’t facts, again, they’re wishful thinking. I’m a long time contributor and developer and I can assure you that with things as complex as X and Wayland things would move slowly even if everybody was of the same mind, let alone in the “herding cats” style of FOSS.\n
          \n
          Wayland has been in development for 15 years and it’s still not ready – please, it’s not, and stomping our feet and claiming otherwise won’t make it so. Another 5 years will probably see it reach a more stable state.\n
          \n
          What do I mean by ready? Well the desktop stack [on Linux and *NIX] is extremely complex. Whenever you’re dealing with something extremely complex in software, over the years, you amass a large amount of solutions that solve real world problems. That’s what I call “ready”. Most of those solutions will be dealing with quirks and use cases which do not affect everybody equally, but they’re each crucial in their own way to a varying slice of the userbase.\n
          \n
          Whenever you rewrite something from scratch you throw away the bulk of those quirks. It’s a common fallacy for developers to look at the shiny new thing and think that it’s better. In reality it’s worthless without the quirks, and accumulating those quirks all over again takes a long time. X has been accumulating them for 40 years. Wayland is barely scratching the surface.\n
          \n
          The fact the protocol places and splits the burden over the various DE and WM teams will NOT help. We will need libraries that solve the same problem once instead of over and over, and most DE/WM will come to depend on those libraries. The end result will be eerily similar to X. Ironically, by the time Wayland will be done it will have spent a comparable time in development to X, and will have accumulated the same amount of baggage that people dislike about X.\n
          \n
          > What percentage of the Linux Desktop universe are you expecting will still be using X at the end of 2025?\n
          \n
          More or less the same that’s using X right now. GNOME, KDE and the various distros will get a bloody nose trying to force Wayland through but if that’s the only way they learn, so be it.\n
          \n
          The Steam Deck actually has one of the few use cases where Wayland actually makes sense, it’s a turnkey, highly controlled stack (both software and hardware) where users don’t have any reasons to care about what’s under the hood. I expect them to switch ASAP.\n
          \n
          Another place where Wayland can be used straightaway is the desktop graphical login screen (which is the original reason it was created for anyway). It’s a singular application with reduced requirements and simplistic interactions.
          """
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          "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
          "@LeFantome@programming.dev"
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date App\Twig\Components\DateComponent 12.0 MiB 0.40 ms
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]
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[]
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date_edited App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent 12.0 MiB 0.20 ms
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magazine_inline App\Twig\Components\MagazineInlineComponent 12.0 MiB 0.22 ms
Input props
[
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      From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
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      \n
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      Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
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      This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
      \n
      Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
      \n
      ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
      \n
      - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
      - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
      - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
      - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
      \n
      …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
      \n
      In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
      \n
      As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
      \n
      Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
      \n
      And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
      \n
      As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
      \n
      Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
      - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
      - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
      - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
      - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
      - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
      \n
      Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
      - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
      \n
      Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
      - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
      - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
      - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
      - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
      \n
      Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
      \n
      DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
      \n
      Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
      \n
      As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
      - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
      - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
      \n
      Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
      - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
      - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
      - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
      - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
      - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
      - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
      - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
      - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
      - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
      - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
      - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
      \n
      And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
      """
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            date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
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        +body: """
          > You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
          \n
          All I see is a rift in the community over one side pushing software that’s beta-quality at best, and acting very arrogant and dismissive towards real adoption impediments.\n
          \n
          Which is par for the course for Linux, naturally, but “it’s happening” is wishful thinking at this stage. At this rate and with this attitude it will take at least another 5 years.\n
          \n
          Wayland’s worst enemy is its own fans.
          """
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          "@LeFantome@programming.dev"
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        -bodyTs: "'5':74 'act':33 'adopt':40 'anoth':73 'arrog':35 'attitud':67 'best':31 'beta':28 'beta-qu':27 'communiti':19 'cours':47 'dismiss':37 'enemi':79 'fan':83 'forgot':2 'happen':10,54 'impedi':41 'least':72 'linux':49 'natur':50 'one':21 'par':44 'part':4 'push':23 'qualiti':29 'rate':63 'real':39 'rift':16 'see':13 'side':22 'softwar':24 'stage':60 'take':70 'think':57 'toward':38 'wayland':76 'wish':56 'worst':78 'year':75"
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      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2083
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        +body: """
          “Linux” is not an entity with well defined goals, it’s a community that mostly does whatever it wants. That has the fortunate side effect of producing labors of love in software, that prove really useful in the real world. But it also ignores things like user experience, which affect things like the desktop the most.\n
          \n
          On Linux the user is a second-class citizen, because worth in the community is determined by how much a person contributes (in code, testing, artwork, documentation etc.)\n
          \n
          The Linux mindset is best expressed by a quote from Simon Travaglia (which I paraphrase because I don’t remember it verbatim): “We’re tasked with the well-being of the servers, not the users. They’re lucky we even let them log in since users technically *upset* the smooth operation of the servers.”
          """
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          "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
          "@michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
          "@LeFantome@programming.dev"
        ]
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2012
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        +body: """
          I’m glad Wayland solves problems for you, but it creates them for others.\n
          \n
          Imagine being forced to go the other way. Could you be coerced into going back to Xorg? What would you do if a distro attempted to do that to you?
          """
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          "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
          "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
          "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1363
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        +body: """
          You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
          \n
          Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
          """
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          "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
          "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2312
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        +body: """
          > but why should AMD, Intel and NVIDIA care about Linux desktop\n
          \n
          They care because it’s free testing for their more lucrative Linux-based products. We’re their lab rats.
          """
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          "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2325
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        +body: """
          They aren’t facts, again, they’re wishful thinking. I’m a long time contributor and developer and I can assure you that with things as complex as X and Wayland things would move slowly even if everybody was of the same mind, let alone in the “herding cats” style of FOSS.\n
          \n
          Wayland has been in development for 15 years and it’s still not ready – please, it’s not, and stomping our feet and claiming otherwise won’t make it so. Another 5 years will probably see it reach a more stable state.\n
          \n
          What do I mean by ready? Well the desktop stack [on Linux and *NIX] is extremely complex. Whenever you’re dealing with something extremely complex in software, over the years, you amass a large amount of solutions that solve real world problems. That’s what I call “ready”. Most of those solutions will be dealing with quirks and use cases which do not affect everybody equally, but they’re each crucial in their own way to a varying slice of the userbase.\n
          \n
          Whenever you rewrite something from scratch you throw away the bulk of those quirks. It’s a common fallacy for developers to look at the shiny new thing and think that it’s better. In reality it’s worthless without the quirks, and accumulating those quirks all over again takes a long time. X has been accumulating them for 40 years. Wayland is barely scratching the surface.\n
          \n
          The fact the protocol places and splits the burden over the various DE and WM teams will NOT help. We will need libraries that solve the same problem once instead of over and over, and most DE/WM will come to depend on those libraries. The end result will be eerily similar to X. Ironically, by the time Wayland will be done it will have spent a comparable time in development to X, and will have accumulated the same amount of baggage that people dislike about X.\n
          \n
          > What percentage of the Linux Desktop universe are you expecting will still be using X at the end of 2025?\n
          \n
          More or less the same that’s using X right now. GNOME, KDE and the various distros will get a bloody nose trying to force Wayland through but if that’s the only way they learn, so be it.\n
          \n
          The Steam Deck actually has one of the few use cases where Wayland actually makes sense, it’s a turnkey, highly controlled stack (both software and hardware) where users don’t have any reasons to care about what’s under the hood. I expect them to switch ASAP.\n
          \n
          Another place where Wayland can be used straightaway is the desktop graphical login screen (which is the original reason it was created for anyway). It’s a singular application with reduced requirements and simplistic interactions.
          """
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    +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
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    +body: """
      Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
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      This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
      \n
      Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
      \n
      ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
      \n
      - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
      - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
      - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
      - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
      \n
      …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
      \n
      In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
      \n
      As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
      \n
      Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
      \n
      And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
      \n
      As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
      \n
      Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
      - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
      - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
      - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
      - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
      - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
      \n
      Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
      - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
      \n
      Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
      - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
      - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
      - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
      - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
      \n
      Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
      \n
      DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
      \n
      Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
      \n
      As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
      - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
      - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
      \n
      Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
      - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
      - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
      - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
      - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
      - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
      - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
      - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
      - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
      - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
      - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
      - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
      \n
      And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
      """
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          > You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
          \n
          All I see is a rift in the community over one side pushing software that’s beta-quality at best, and acting very arrogant and dismissive towards real adoption impediments.\n
          \n
          Which is par for the course for Linux, naturally, but “it’s happening” is wishful thinking at this stage. At this rate and with this attitude it will take at least another 5 years.\n
          \n
          Wayland’s worst enemy is its own fans.
          """
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          “Linux” is not an entity with well defined goals, it’s a community that mostly does whatever it wants. That has the fortunate side effect of producing labors of love in software, that prove really useful in the real world. But it also ignores things like user experience, which affect things like the desktop the most.\n
          \n
          On Linux the user is a second-class citizen, because worth in the community is determined by how much a person contributes (in code, testing, artwork, documentation etc.)\n
          \n
          The Linux mindset is best expressed by a quote from Simon Travaglia (which I paraphrase because I don’t remember it verbatim): “We’re tasked with the well-being of the servers, not the users. They’re lucky we even let them log in since users technically *upset* the smooth operation of the servers.”
          """
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          I’m glad Wayland solves problems for you, but it creates them for others.\n
          \n
          Imagine being forced to go the other way. Could you be coerced into going back to Xorg? What would you do if a distro attempted to do that to you?
          """
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1363
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        +body: """
          You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
          \n
          Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
          """
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          > but why should AMD, Intel and NVIDIA care about Linux desktop\n
          \n
          They care because it’s free testing for their more lucrative Linux-based products. We’re their lab rats.
          """
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2325
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          They aren’t facts, again, they’re wishful thinking. I’m a long time contributor and developer and I can assure you that with things as complex as X and Wayland things would move slowly even if everybody was of the same mind, let alone in the “herding cats” style of FOSS.\n
          \n
          Wayland has been in development for 15 years and it’s still not ready – please, it’s not, and stomping our feet and claiming otherwise won’t make it so. Another 5 years will probably see it reach a more stable state.\n
          \n
          What do I mean by ready? Well the desktop stack [on Linux and *NIX] is extremely complex. Whenever you’re dealing with something extremely complex in software, over the years, you amass a large amount of solutions that solve real world problems. That’s what I call “ready”. Most of those solutions will be dealing with quirks and use cases which do not affect everybody equally, but they’re each crucial in their own way to a varying slice of the userbase.\n
          \n
          Whenever you rewrite something from scratch you throw away the bulk of those quirks. It’s a common fallacy for developers to look at the shiny new thing and think that it’s better. In reality it’s worthless without the quirks, and accumulating those quirks all over again takes a long time. X has been accumulating them for 40 years. Wayland is barely scratching the surface.\n
          \n
          The fact the protocol places and splits the burden over the various DE and WM teams will NOT help. We will need libraries that solve the same problem once instead of over and over, and most DE/WM will come to depend on those libraries. The end result will be eerily similar to X. Ironically, by the time Wayland will be done it will have spent a comparable time in development to X, and will have accumulated the same amount of baggage that people dislike about X.\n
          \n
          > What percentage of the Linux Desktop universe are you expecting will still be using X at the end of 2025?\n
          \n
          More or less the same that’s using X right now. GNOME, KDE and the various distros will get a bloody nose trying to force Wayland through but if that’s the only way they learn, so be it.\n
          \n
          The Steam Deck actually has one of the few use cases where Wayland actually makes sense, it’s a turnkey, highly controlled stack (both software and hardware) where users don’t have any reasons to care about what’s under the hood. I expect them to switch ASAP.\n
          \n
          Another place where Wayland can be used straightaway is the desktop graphical login screen (which is the original reason it was created for anyway). It’s a singular application with reduced requirements and simplistic interactions.
          """
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boost App\Twig\Components\BoostComponent 12.0 MiB 1.95 ms
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        From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
        \n
        Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).\n
        \n
        Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.\n
        \n
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        """
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    +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
    +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
    +url: null
    +body: """
      Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
      \n
      This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
      \n
      Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
      \n
      ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
      \n
      - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
      - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
      - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
      - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
      \n
      …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
      \n
      In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
      \n
      As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
      \n
      Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
      \n
      And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
      \n
      As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
      \n
      Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
      - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
      - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
      - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
      - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
      - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
      \n
      Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
      - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
      \n
      Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
      - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
      - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
      - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
      - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
      \n
      Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
      \n
      DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
      \n
      Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
      \n
      As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
      - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
      - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
      \n
      Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
      - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
      - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
      - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
      - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
      - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
      - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
      - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
      - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
      - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
      - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
      - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
      \n
      And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
      """
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          > You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
          \n
          All I see is a rift in the community over one side pushing software that’s beta-quality at best, and acting very arrogant and dismissive towards real adoption impediments.\n
          \n
          Which is par for the course for Linux, naturally, but “it’s happening” is wishful thinking at this stage. At this rate and with this attitude it will take at least another 5 years.\n
          \n
          Wayland’s worst enemy is its own fans.
          """
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          “Linux” is not an entity with well defined goals, it’s a community that mostly does whatever it wants. That has the fortunate side effect of producing labors of love in software, that prove really useful in the real world. But it also ignores things like user experience, which affect things like the desktop the most.\n
          \n
          On Linux the user is a second-class citizen, because worth in the community is determined by how much a person contributes (in code, testing, artwork, documentation etc.)\n
          \n
          The Linux mindset is best expressed by a quote from Simon Travaglia (which I paraphrase because I don’t remember it verbatim): “We’re tasked with the well-being of the servers, not the users. They’re lucky we even let them log in since users technically *upset* the smooth operation of the servers.”
          """
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          I’m glad Wayland solves problems for you, but it creates them for others.\n
          \n
          Imagine being forced to go the other way. Could you be coerced into going back to Xorg? What would you do if a distro attempted to do that to you?
          """
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1363
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        +body: """
          You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
          \n
          Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
          """
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2312
        +user: App\Entity\User {#259}
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        +body: """
          > but why should AMD, Intel and NVIDIA care about Linux desktop\n
          \n
          They care because it’s free testing for their more lucrative Linux-based products. We’re their lab rats.
          """
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2325
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …2}
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        +body: """
          They aren’t facts, again, they’re wishful thinking. I’m a long time contributor and developer and I can assure you that with things as complex as X and Wayland things would move slowly even if everybody was of the same mind, let alone in the “herding cats” style of FOSS.\n
          \n
          Wayland has been in development for 15 years and it’s still not ready – please, it’s not, and stomping our feet and claiming otherwise won’t make it so. Another 5 years will probably see it reach a more stable state.\n
          \n
          What do I mean by ready? Well the desktop stack [on Linux and *NIX] is extremely complex. Whenever you’re dealing with something extremely complex in software, over the years, you amass a large amount of solutions that solve real world problems. That’s what I call “ready”. Most of those solutions will be dealing with quirks and use cases which do not affect everybody equally, but they’re each crucial in their own way to a varying slice of the userbase.\n
          \n
          Whenever you rewrite something from scratch you throw away the bulk of those quirks. It’s a common fallacy for developers to look at the shiny new thing and think that it’s better. In reality it’s worthless without the quirks, and accumulating those quirks all over again takes a long time. X has been accumulating them for 40 years. Wayland is barely scratching the surface.\n
          \n
          The fact the protocol places and splits the burden over the various DE and WM teams will NOT help. We will need libraries that solve the same problem once instead of over and over, and most DE/WM will come to depend on those libraries. The end result will be eerily similar to X. Ironically, by the time Wayland will be done it will have spent a comparable time in development to X, and will have accumulated the same amount of baggage that people dislike about X.\n
          \n
          > What percentage of the Linux Desktop universe are you expecting will still be using X at the end of 2025?\n
          \n
          More or less the same that’s using X right now. GNOME, KDE and the various distros will get a bloody nose trying to force Wayland through but if that’s the only way they learn, so be it.\n
          \n
          The Steam Deck actually has one of the few use cases where Wayland actually makes sense, it’s a turnkey, highly controlled stack (both software and hardware) where users don’t have any reasons to care about what’s under the hood. I expect them to switch ASAP.\n
          \n
          Another place where Wayland can be used straightaway is the desktop graphical login screen (which is the original reason it was created for anyway). It’s a singular application with reduced requirements and simplistic interactions.
          """
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      Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
      \n
      This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
      \n
      Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
      \n
      ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
      \n
      - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
      - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
      - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
      - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
      \n
      …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
      \n
      In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
      \n
      As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
      \n
      Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
      \n
      And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
      \n
      As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
      \n
      Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
      - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
      - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
      - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
      - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
      - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
      \n
      Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
      - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
      \n
      Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
      - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
      - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
      - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
      - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
      \n
      Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
      \n
      DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
      \n
      Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
      \n
      As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
      - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
      - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
      \n
      Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
      - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
      - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
      - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
      - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
      - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
      - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
      - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
      - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
      - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
      - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
      - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
      \n
      And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
      """
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            date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …2}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1403 …}
        +body: """
          > You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
          \n
          All I see is a rift in the community over one side pushing software that’s beta-quality at best, and acting very arrogant and dismissive towards real adoption impediments.\n
          \n
          Which is par for the course for Linux, naturally, but “it’s happening” is wishful thinking at this stage. At this rate and with this attitude it will take at least another 5 years.\n
          \n
          Wayland’s worst enemy is its own fans.
          """
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        -bodyTs: "'5':74 'act':33 'adopt':40 'anoth':73 'arrog':35 'attitud':67 'best':31 'beta':28 'beta-qu':27 'communiti':19 'cours':47 'dismiss':37 'enemi':79 'fan':83 'forgot':2 'happen':10,54 'impedi':41 'least':72 'linux':49 'natur':50 'one':21 'par':44 'part':4 'push':23 'qualiti':29 'rate':63 'real':39 'rift':16 'see':13 'side':22 'softwar':24 'stage':60 'take':70 'think':57 'toward':38 'wayland':76 'wish':56 'worst':78 'year':75"
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      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2083
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        +body: """
          “Linux” is not an entity with well defined goals, it’s a community that mostly does whatever it wants. That has the fortunate side effect of producing labors of love in software, that prove really useful in the real world. But it also ignores things like user experience, which affect things like the desktop the most.\n
          \n
          On Linux the user is a second-class citizen, because worth in the community is determined by how much a person contributes (in code, testing, artwork, documentation etc.)\n
          \n
          The Linux mindset is best expressed by a quote from Simon Travaglia (which I paraphrase because I don’t remember it verbatim): “We’re tasked with the well-being of the servers, not the users. They’re lucky we even let them log in since users technically *upset* the smooth operation of the servers.”
          """
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          "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
          "@michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
          "@LeFantome@programming.dev"
        ]
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2012
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        +body: """
          I’m glad Wayland solves problems for you, but it creates them for others.\n
          \n
          Imagine being forced to go the other way. Could you be coerced into going back to Xorg? What would you do if a distro attempted to do that to you?
          """
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          "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1363
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        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1361 …2}
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        +body: """
          You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
          \n
          Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
          """
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          "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
          "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2312
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        +body: """
          > but why should AMD, Intel and NVIDIA care about Linux desktop\n
          \n
          They care because it’s free testing for their more lucrative Linux-based products. We’re their lab rats.
          """
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          "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2325
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        +body: """
          They aren’t facts, again, they’re wishful thinking. I’m a long time contributor and developer and I can assure you that with things as complex as X and Wayland things would move slowly even if everybody was of the same mind, let alone in the “herding cats” style of FOSS.\n
          \n
          Wayland has been in development for 15 years and it’s still not ready – please, it’s not, and stomping our feet and claiming otherwise won’t make it so. Another 5 years will probably see it reach a more stable state.\n
          \n
          What do I mean by ready? Well the desktop stack [on Linux and *NIX] is extremely complex. Whenever you’re dealing with something extremely complex in software, over the years, you amass a large amount of solutions that solve real world problems. That’s what I call “ready”. Most of those solutions will be dealing with quirks and use cases which do not affect everybody equally, but they’re each crucial in their own way to a varying slice of the userbase.\n
          \n
          Whenever you rewrite something from scratch you throw away the bulk of those quirks. It’s a common fallacy for developers to look at the shiny new thing and think that it’s better. In reality it’s worthless without the quirks, and accumulating those quirks all over again takes a long time. X has been accumulating them for 40 years. Wayland is barely scratching the surface.\n
          \n
          The fact the protocol places and splits the burden over the various DE and WM teams will NOT help. We will need libraries that solve the same problem once instead of over and over, and most DE/WM will come to depend on those libraries. The end result will be eerily similar to X. Ironically, by the time Wayland will be done it will have spent a comparable time in development to X, and will have accumulated the same amount of baggage that people dislike about X.\n
          \n
          > What percentage of the Linux Desktop universe are you expecting will still be using X at the end of 2025?\n
          \n
          More or less the same that’s using X right now. GNOME, KDE and the various distros will get a bloody nose trying to force Wayland through but if that’s the only way they learn, so be it.\n
          \n
          The Steam Deck actually has one of the few use cases where Wayland actually makes sense, it’s a turnkey, highly controlled stack (both software and hardware) where users don’t have any reasons to care about what’s under the hood. I expect them to switch ASAP.\n
          \n
          Another place where Wayland can be used straightaway is the desktop graphical login screen (which is the original reason it was created for anyway). It’s a singular application with reduced requirements and simplistic interactions.
          """
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entry_comment App\Twig\Components\EntryCommentComponent 12.0 MiB 6.87 ms
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          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
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          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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      +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2956 …}
      +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
      +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
        \n
        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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          +body: """
            “Linux” is not an entity with well defined goals, it’s a community that mostly does whatever it wants. That has the fortunate side effect of producing labors of love in software, that prove really useful in the real world. But it also ignores things like user experience, which affect things like the desktop the most.\n
            \n
            On Linux the user is a second-class citizen, because worth in the community is determined by how much a person contributes (in code, testing, artwork, documentation etc.)\n
            \n
            The Linux mindset is best expressed by a quote from Simon Travaglia (which I paraphrase because I don’t remember it verbatim): “We’re tasked with the well-being of the servers, not the users. They’re lucky we even let them log in since users technically *upset* the smooth operation of the servers.”
            """
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          +body: """
            I’m glad Wayland solves problems for you, but it creates them for others.\n
            \n
            Imagine being forced to go the other way. Could you be coerced into going back to Xorg? What would you do if a distro attempted to do that to you?
            """
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            date: 2023-11-19 22:21:07.0 +01:00
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          +body: """
            You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
            \n
            Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
            """
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            > but why should AMD, Intel and NVIDIA care about Linux desktop\n
            \n
            They care because it’s free testing for their more lucrative Linux-based products. We’re their lab rats.
            """
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          +body: """
            They aren’t facts, again, they’re wishful thinking. I’m a long time contributor and developer and I can assure you that with things as complex as X and Wayland things would move slowly even if everybody was of the same mind, let alone in the “herding cats” style of FOSS.\n
            \n
            Wayland has been in development for 15 years and it’s still not ready – please, it’s not, and stomping our feet and claiming otherwise won’t make it so. Another 5 years will probably see it reach a more stable state.\n
            \n
            What do I mean by ready? Well the desktop stack [on Linux and *NIX] is extremely complex. Whenever you’re dealing with something extremely complex in software, over the years, you amass a large amount of solutions that solve real world problems. That’s what I call “ready”. Most of those solutions will be dealing with quirks and use cases which do not affect everybody equally, but they’re each crucial in their own way to a varying slice of the userbase.\n
            \n
            Whenever you rewrite something from scratch you throw away the bulk of those quirks. It’s a common fallacy for developers to look at the shiny new thing and think that it’s better. In reality it’s worthless without the quirks, and accumulating those quirks all over again takes a long time. X has been accumulating them for 40 years. Wayland is barely scratching the surface.\n
            \n
            The fact the protocol places and splits the burden over the various DE and WM teams will NOT help. We will need libraries that solve the same problem once instead of over and over, and most DE/WM will come to depend on those libraries. The end result will be eerily similar to X. Ironically, by the time Wayland will be done it will have spent a comparable time in development to X, and will have accumulated the same amount of baggage that people dislike about X.\n
            \n
            > What percentage of the Linux Desktop universe are you expecting will still be using X at the end of 2025?\n
            \n
            More or less the same that’s using X right now. GNOME, KDE and the various distros will get a bloody nose trying to force Wayland through but if that’s the only way they learn, so be it.\n
            \n
            The Steam Deck actually has one of the few use cases where Wayland actually makes sense, it’s a turnkey, highly controlled stack (both software and hardware) where users don’t have any reasons to care about what’s under the hood. I expect them to switch ASAP.\n
            \n
            Another place where Wayland can be used straightaway is the desktop graphical login screen (which is the original reason it was created for anyway). It’s a singular application with reduced requirements and simplistic interactions.
            """
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      > You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
      \n
      All I see is a rift in the community over one side pushing software that’s beta-quality at best, and acting very arrogant and dismissive towards real adoption impediments.\n
      \n
      Which is par for the course for Linux, naturally, but “it’s happening” is wishful thinking at this stage. At this rate and with this attitude it will take at least another 5 years.\n
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          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
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          \n
          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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      +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
      +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
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      +body: """
        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
        \n
        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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          +body: """
            “Linux” is not an entity with well defined goals, it’s a community that mostly does whatever it wants. That has the fortunate side effect of producing labors of love in software, that prove really useful in the real world. But it also ignores things like user experience, which affect things like the desktop the most.\n
            \n
            On Linux the user is a second-class citizen, because worth in the community is determined by how much a person contributes (in code, testing, artwork, documentation etc.)\n
            \n
            The Linux mindset is best expressed by a quote from Simon Travaglia (which I paraphrase because I don’t remember it verbatim): “We’re tasked with the well-being of the servers, not the users. They’re lucky we even let them log in since users technically *upset* the smooth operation of the servers.”
            """
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            "@theshatterstone54@feddit.uk"
            "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
            "@michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
            "@LeFantome@programming.dev"
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        3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2012
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          +body: """
            I’m glad Wayland solves problems for you, but it creates them for others.\n
            \n
            Imagine being forced to go the other way. Could you be coerced into going back to Xorg? What would you do if a distro attempted to do that to you?
            """
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          +body: """
            You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
            \n
            Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
            """
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            date: 2023-11-19 03:09:37.0 +01:00
          }
          +"title": 138758
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        1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2312
          +user: App\Entity\User {#259}
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          +body: """
            > but why should AMD, Intel and NVIDIA care about Linux desktop\n
            \n
            They care because it’s free testing for their more lucrative Linux-based products. We’re their lab rats.
            """
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            "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
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            "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
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        }
        0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2325
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          +body: """
            They aren’t facts, again, they’re wishful thinking. I’m a long time contributor and developer and I can assure you that with things as complex as X and Wayland things would move slowly even if everybody was of the same mind, let alone in the “herding cats” style of FOSS.\n
            \n
            Wayland has been in development for 15 years and it’s still not ready – please, it’s not, and stomping our feet and claiming otherwise won’t make it so. Another 5 years will probably see it reach a more stable state.\n
            \n
            What do I mean by ready? Well the desktop stack [on Linux and *NIX] is extremely complex. Whenever you’re dealing with something extremely complex in software, over the years, you amass a large amount of solutions that solve real world problems. That’s what I call “ready”. Most of those solutions will be dealing with quirks and use cases which do not affect everybody equally, but they’re each crucial in their own way to a varying slice of the userbase.\n
            \n
            Whenever you rewrite something from scratch you throw away the bulk of those quirks. It’s a common fallacy for developers to look at the shiny new thing and think that it’s better. In reality it’s worthless without the quirks, and accumulating those quirks all over again takes a long time. X has been accumulating them for 40 years. Wayland is barely scratching the surface.\n
            \n
            The fact the protocol places and splits the burden over the various DE and WM teams will NOT help. We will need libraries that solve the same problem once instead of over and over, and most DE/WM will come to depend on those libraries. The end result will be eerily similar to X. Ironically, by the time Wayland will be done it will have spent a comparable time in development to X, and will have accumulated the same amount of baggage that people dislike about X.\n
            \n
            > What percentage of the Linux Desktop universe are you expecting will still be using X at the end of 2025?\n
            \n
            More or less the same that’s using X right now. GNOME, KDE and the various distros will get a bloody nose trying to force Wayland through but if that’s the only way they learn, so be it.\n
            \n
            The Steam Deck actually has one of the few use cases where Wayland actually makes sense, it’s a turnkey, highly controlled stack (both software and hardware) where users don’t have any reasons to care about what’s under the hood. I expect them to switch ASAP.\n
            \n
            Another place where Wayland can be used straightaway is the desktop graphical login screen (which is the original reason it was created for anyway). It’s a singular application with reduced requirements and simplistic interactions.
            """
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      +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700502248 {#2910
        date: 2023-11-20 18:44:08.0 +01:00
      }
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       …2
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    +body: """
      > You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
      \n
      All I see is a rift in the community over one side pushing software that’s beta-quality at best, and acting very arrogant and dismissive towards real adoption impediments.\n
      \n
      Which is par for the course for Linux, naturally, but “it’s happening” is wishful thinking at this stage. At this rate and with this attitude it will take at least another 5 years.\n
      \n
      Wayland’s worst enemy is its own fans.
      """
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    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2138 …}
    -id: 141068
    -bodyTs: "'5':74 'act':33 'adopt':40 'anoth':73 'arrog':35 'attitud':67 'best':31 'beta':28 'beta-qu':27 'communiti':19 'cours':47 'dismiss':37 'enemi':79 'fan':83 'forgot':2 'happen':10,54 'impedi':41 'least':72 'linux':49 'natur':50 'one':21 'par':44 'part':4 'push':23 'qualiti':29 'rate':63 'real':39 'rift':16 'see':13 'side':22 'softwar':24 'stage':60 'take':70 'think':57 'toward':38 'wayland':76 'wish':56 'worst':78 'year':75"
    +ranking: 0
    +commentCount: 0
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://feddit.nl/comment/4716085"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700430485 {#2091
      date: 2023-11-19 22:48:05.0 +01:00
    }
    +"title": 141068
  }
  +showMagazineName: false
  +showEntryTitle: false
  +showNested: false
  +level: 1
  +canSeeTrash: false
  +dateAsUrl: true
  -requestStack: Symfony\Component\HttpFoundation\RequestStack {#1328 …}
  -authorizationChecker: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\AuthorizationChecker {#931 …}
}
user_inline App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent 12.0 MiB 0.17 ms
Input props
[
  "user" => App\Entity\User {#259
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +username: "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1727573233 {#267
      date: 2024-09-29 03:27:13.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: true
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: false
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
    +isVerified: false
    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#231 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#161 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#134 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#104 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#77 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#92 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1816 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1851 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1868 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1594 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1602 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1768 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1862 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1836 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1846 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1831 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2410 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1955 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2399 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1911 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1914 …}
    +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1884 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1915 …}
    -id: 5129
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    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1950 …}
    +apId: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +apProfileId: "https://feddit.nl/u/lemmyvore"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://feddit.nl/u/lemmyvore"
    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://feddit.nl/inbox"
    +apDomain: "feddit.nl"
    +apPreferredUsername: "lemmyvore"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1727039733 {#272
      date: 2024-09-22 23:15:33.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687169920 {#269
      date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  "showAvatar" => false
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent {#5426
  +user: App\Entity\User {#259
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +username: "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1727573233 {#267
      date: 2024-09-29 03:27:13.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: true
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: false
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
    +isVerified: false
    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#231 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#161 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#134 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#104 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#77 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#92 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1816 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1851 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1868 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1594 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1602 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1768 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1862 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1836 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1846 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1831 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2410 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1955 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2399 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1911 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1914 …}
    +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1884 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1915 …}
    -id: 5129
    -password: "$2y$13$/vteljm8CiRSKlQjOelDZefgFTbMgXd9zTn7W2zbMetE/IgF5X85q"
    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1950 …}
    +apId: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +apProfileId: "https://feddit.nl/u/lemmyvore"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://feddit.nl/u/lemmyvore"
    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://feddit.nl/inbox"
    +apDomain: "feddit.nl"
    +apPreferredUsername: "lemmyvore"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1727039733 {#272
      date: 2024-09-22 23:15:33.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
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    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687169920 {#269
      date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  +showAvatar: false
}
date App\Twig\Components\DateComponent 12.0 MiB 0.15 ms
Input props
[
  "date" => DateTimeImmutable @1700430485 {#2091
    date: 2023-11-19 22:48:05.0 +01:00
  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateComponent {#5484
  +date: DateTimeImmutable @1700430485 {#2091
    date: 2023-11-19 22:48:05.0 +01:00
  }
}
date_edited App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent 12.0 MiB 0.14 ms
Input props
[
  "createdAt" => DateTimeImmutable @1700430485 {#2091
    date: 2023-11-19 22:48:05.0 +01:00
  }
  "editedAt" => null
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent {#5538
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700430485 {#2091
    date: 2023-11-19 22:48:05.0 +01:00
  }
  +editedAt: null
}
user_avatar App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent 12.0 MiB 0.32 ms
Input props
[
  "user" => App\Entity\User {#259
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +username: "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1727573233 {#267
      date: 2024-09-29 03:27:13.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: true
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: false
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
    +isVerified: false
    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#231 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#161 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#134 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#104 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#77 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#92 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1816 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1851 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1868 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1594 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1602 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1768 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1862 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1836 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1846 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1831 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2410 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1955 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2399 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1911 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1914 …}
    +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1884 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1915 …}
    -id: 5129
    -password: "$2y$13$/vteljm8CiRSKlQjOelDZefgFTbMgXd9zTn7W2zbMetE/IgF5X85q"
    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1950 …}
    +apId: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +apProfileId: "https://feddit.nl/u/lemmyvore"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://feddit.nl/u/lemmyvore"
    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://feddit.nl/inbox"
    +apDomain: "feddit.nl"
    +apPreferredUsername: "lemmyvore"
    +apDiscoverable: true
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    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1727039733 {#272
      date: 2024-09-22 23:15:33.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687169920 {#269
      date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  "width" => 40
  "height" => 40
  "asLink" => true
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent {#5594
  +width: 40
  +height: 40
  +user: App\Entity\User {#259
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +username: "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1727573233 {#267
      date: 2024-09-29 03:27:13.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
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    +oauthGoogleId: null
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    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
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    +featuredMagazines: null
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    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
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    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
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    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
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    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#231 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#161 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#134 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#104 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#77 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#92 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1816 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1851 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1868 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1594 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1602 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1768 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1862 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1836 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1846 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1831 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2410 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1955 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2399 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1911 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1914 …}
    +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1884 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1915 …}
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    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1950 …}
    +apId: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +apProfileId: "https://feddit.nl/u/lemmyvore"
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    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://feddit.nl/inbox"
    +apDomain: "feddit.nl"
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    +apDiscoverable: true
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    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1727039733 {#272
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    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
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    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687169920 {#269
      date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  +asLink: true
}
vote App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent 12.0 MiB 0.43 ms
Input props
[
  "subject" => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2086
    +user: App\Entity\User {#259
      +avatar: null
      +cover: null
      +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
      +username: "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
      +roles: []
      +followersCount: 0
      +homepage: "front"
      +about: null
      +lastActive: DateTime @1727573233 {#267
        date: 2024-09-29 03:27:13.0 +02:00
      }
      +markedForDeletionAt: null
      +fields: null
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      +oauthFacebookId: null
      +oauthKeycloakId: null
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      +showSubscribedUsers: true
      +showSubscribedMagazines: true
      +showSubscribedDomains: true
      +preferredLanguages: []
      +featuredMagazines: null
      +showProfileSubscriptions: true
      +showProfileFollowings: true
      +markNewComments: false
      +notifyOnNewEntry: false
      +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
      +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
      +notifyOnNewPost: false
      +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
      +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: false
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      +addMentionsPosts: true
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      +isDeleted: false
      +isBot: false
      +spamProtection: true
      +customCss: null
      +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
      +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
      +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
      +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#231 …}
      +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
      +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#161 …}
      +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#134 …}
      +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#104 …}
      +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#77 …}
      +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#92 …}
      +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1816 …}
      +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1851 …}
      +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1868 …}
      +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1594 …}
      +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1602 …}
      +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1768 …}
      +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1862 …}
      +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1836 …}
      +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1846 …}
      +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1831 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2410 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1955 …}
      +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2399 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1911 …}
      +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1914 …}
      +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1884 …}
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      -totpSecret: null
      -totpBackupCodes: []
      -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1950 …}
      +apId: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
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      +apPublicUrl: "https://feddit.nl/u/lemmyvore"
      +apFollowersUrl: null
      +apInboxUrl: "https://feddit.nl/inbox"
      +apDomain: "feddit.nl"
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      +apDiscoverable: true
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      +privateKey: null
      +publicKey: null
      +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1727039733 {#272
        date: 2024-09-22 23:15:33.0 +02:00
      }
      +apDeletedAt: null
      +apTimeoutAt: null
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687169920 {#269
        date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
      }
    }
    +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1361
      +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2999
        +avatar: null
        +cover: null
        +email: "theshatterstone54@feddit.uk"
        +username: "@theshatterstone54@feddit.uk"
        +roles: []
        +followersCount: 0
        +homepage: "front"
        +about: null
        +lastActive: DateTime @1726513116 {#4713
          date: 2024-09-16 20:58:36.0 +02:00
        }
        +markedForDeletionAt: null
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        +oauthFacebookId: null
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        +featuredMagazines: null
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          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
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          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
          \n
          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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      +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
      +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
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      +body: """
        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
        \n
        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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          +body: """
            “Linux” is not an entity with well defined goals, it’s a community that mostly does whatever it wants. That has the fortunate side effect of producing labors of love in software, that prove really useful in the real world. But it also ignores things like user experience, which affect things like the desktop the most.\n
            \n
            On Linux the user is a second-class citizen, because worth in the community is determined by how much a person contributes (in code, testing, artwork, documentation etc.)\n
            \n
            The Linux mindset is best expressed by a quote from Simon Travaglia (which I paraphrase because I don’t remember it verbatim): “We’re tasked with the well-being of the servers, not the users. They’re lucky we even let them log in since users technically *upset* the smooth operation of the servers.”
            """
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            "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
            "@michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
            "@LeFantome@programming.dev"
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        3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2012
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          +body: """
            I’m glad Wayland solves problems for you, but it creates them for others.\n
            \n
            Imagine being forced to go the other way. Could you be coerced into going back to Xorg? What would you do if a distro attempted to do that to you?
            """
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          +body: """
            You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
            \n
            Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
            """
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            date: 2023-11-19 03:09:37.0 +01:00
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        1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2312
          +user: App\Entity\User {#259}
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          +body: """
            > but why should AMD, Intel and NVIDIA care about Linux desktop\n
            \n
            They care because it’s free testing for their more lucrative Linux-based products. We’re their lab rats.
            """
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        }
        0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2325
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          +body: """
            They aren’t facts, again, they’re wishful thinking. I’m a long time contributor and developer and I can assure you that with things as complex as X and Wayland things would move slowly even if everybody was of the same mind, let alone in the “herding cats” style of FOSS.\n
            \n
            Wayland has been in development for 15 years and it’s still not ready – please, it’s not, and stomping our feet and claiming otherwise won’t make it so. Another 5 years will probably see it reach a more stable state.\n
            \n
            What do I mean by ready? Well the desktop stack [on Linux and *NIX] is extremely complex. Whenever you’re dealing with something extremely complex in software, over the years, you amass a large amount of solutions that solve real world problems. That’s what I call “ready”. Most of those solutions will be dealing with quirks and use cases which do not affect everybody equally, but they’re each crucial in their own way to a varying slice of the userbase.\n
            \n
            Whenever you rewrite something from scratch you throw away the bulk of those quirks. It’s a common fallacy for developers to look at the shiny new thing and think that it’s better. In reality it’s worthless without the quirks, and accumulating those quirks all over again takes a long time. X has been accumulating them for 40 years. Wayland is barely scratching the surface.\n
            \n
            The fact the protocol places and splits the burden over the various DE and WM teams will NOT help. We will need libraries that solve the same problem once instead of over and over, and most DE/WM will come to depend on those libraries. The end result will be eerily similar to X. Ironically, by the time Wayland will be done it will have spent a comparable time in development to X, and will have accumulated the same amount of baggage that people dislike about X.\n
            \n
            > What percentage of the Linux Desktop universe are you expecting will still be using X at the end of 2025?\n
            \n
            More or less the same that’s using X right now. GNOME, KDE and the various distros will get a bloody nose trying to force Wayland through but if that’s the only way they learn, so be it.\n
            \n
            The Steam Deck actually has one of the few use cases where Wayland actually makes sense, it’s a turnkey, highly controlled stack (both software and hardware) where users don’t have any reasons to care about what’s under the hood. I expect them to switch ASAP.\n
            \n
            Another place where Wayland can be used straightaway is the desktop graphical login screen (which is the original reason it was created for anyway). It’s a singular application with reduced requirements and simplistic interactions.
            """
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      +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700502248 {#2910
        date: 2023-11-20 18:44:08.0 +01:00
      }
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       …2
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    +body: """
      > You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
      \n
      All I see is a rift in the community over one side pushing software that’s beta-quality at best, and acting very arrogant and dismissive towards real adoption impediments.\n
      \n
      Which is par for the course for Linux, naturally, but “it’s happening” is wishful thinking at this stage. At this rate and with this attitude it will take at least another 5 years.\n
      \n
      Wayland’s worst enemy is its own fans.
      """
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        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
        \n
        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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            “Linux” is not an entity with well defined goals, it’s a community that mostly does whatever it wants. That has the fortunate side effect of producing labors of love in software, that prove really useful in the real world. But it also ignores things like user experience, which affect things like the desktop the most.\n
            \n
            On Linux the user is a second-class citizen, because worth in the community is determined by how much a person contributes (in code, testing, artwork, documentation etc.)\n
            \n
            The Linux mindset is best expressed by a quote from Simon Travaglia (which I paraphrase because I don’t remember it verbatim): “We’re tasked with the well-being of the servers, not the users. They’re lucky we even let them log in since users technically *upset* the smooth operation of the servers.”
            """
          +lang: "en"
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            date: 2023-11-19 22:36:06.0 +01:00
          }
          +ip: null
          +tags: null
          +mentions: [
            "@theshatterstone54@feddit.uk"
            "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
            "@michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
            "@LeFantome@programming.dev"
          ]
          +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2085 …}
          +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2062 …}
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          +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2063 …}
          +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2064 …}
          +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2088 …}
          -id: 141024
          -bodyTs: "'affect':50 'also':43 'artwork':83 'best':90 'citizen':66 'class':65 'code':81 'communiti':13,71 'contribut':79 'defin':8 'desktop':54 'determin':73 'document':84 'effect':25 'entiti':5 'etc':85 'even':126 'experi':48 'express':91 'fortun':23 'goal':9 'ignor':44 'labor':28 'let':127 'like':46,52 'linux':1,58,87 'log':129 'love':30 'lucki':124 'mindset':88 'most':15 'much':76 'oper':137 'paraphras':100 'person':78 'produc':27 'prove':34 'quot':94 're':109,123 'real':39 'realli':35 'rememb':105 'second':64 'second-class':63 'server':118,140 'side':24 'simon':96 'sinc':131 'smooth':136 'softwar':32 'task':110 'technic':133 'test':82 'thing':45,51 'travaglia':97 'upset':134 'use':36 'user':47,60,121,132 'verbatim':107 'want':19 'well':7,114 'well-b':113 'whatev':17 'world':40 'worth':68"
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          +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700429766 {#2097
            date: 2023-11-19 22:36:06.0 +01:00
          }
          +"title": 141024
        }
        3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2012
          +user: App\Entity\User {#259}
          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1361 …2}
          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …2}
          +image: null
          +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2020 …}
          +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1403 …}
          +body: """
            I’m glad Wayland solves problems for you, but it creates them for others.\n
            \n
            Imagine being forced to go the other way. Could you be coerced into going back to Xorg? What would you do if a distro attempted to do that to you?
            """
          +lang: "en"
          +isAdult: false
          +favouriteCount: 1
          +score: 0
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            date: 2023-11-19 22:21:07.0 +01:00
          }
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            "@theshatterstone54@feddit.uk"
            "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
            "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
            "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
          ]
          +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2013 …}
          +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2035 …}
          +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2036 …}
          +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2144 …}
          +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2061 …}
          +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2084 …}
          -id: 140989
          -bodyTs: "'attempt':39 'back':29 'coerc':26 'could':23 'creat':11 'distro':38 'forc':17 'glad':3 'go':19,28 'imagin':15 'm':2 'other':14 'problem':6 'solv':5 'way':22 'wayland':4 'would':33 'xorg':31"
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          +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700428867 {#2029
            date: 2023-11-19 22:21:07.0 +01:00
          }
          +"title": 140989
        }
        2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1363
          +user: App\Entity\User {#259}
          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1361 …2}
          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …2}
          +image: null
          +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1362 …}
          +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1403 …}
          +body: """
            You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
            \n
            Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
            """
          +lang: "en"
          +isAdult: false
          +favouriteCount: 2
          +score: 0
          +lastActive: DateTime @1700359777 {#1401
            date: 2023-11-19 03:09:37.0 +01:00
          }
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          +tags: null
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            "@theshatterstone54@feddit.uk"
            "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
            "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
          ]
          +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2019 …}
          +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2030 …}
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          +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2025 …}
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          -id: 138758
          -bodyTs: "'adopt':44 'better':36 'come':40 'everyth':16 'featur':14 'fine':18 'forc':43 'forgot':2 'happen':28 'let':26 'll':39 'make':47 'natur':29 'need':9 'part':4 'peopl':23,48 'push':22 'readi':34 'reduc':13 'resent':49 'stop':21 'toward':24 'tri':41 'wayland':10,25 'work':17 'xorg':20"
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          +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700359777 {#1404
            date: 2023-11-19 03:09:37.0 +01:00
          }
          +"title": 138758
        }
        1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2312
          +user: App\Entity\User {#259}
          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1361 …2}
          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …2}
          +image: null
          +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2310 …}
          +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1403 …}
          +body: """
            > but why should AMD, Intel and NVIDIA care about Linux desktop\n
            \n
            They care because it’s free testing for their more lucrative Linux-based products. We’re their lab rats.
            """
          +lang: "en"
          +isAdult: false
          +favouriteCount: 1
          +score: 0
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            date: 2023-11-20 18:36:50.0 +01:00
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            "@theshatterstone54@feddit.uk"
            "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
            "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
            "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
          ]
          +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2307 …}
          +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2308 …}
          +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2304 …}
          +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2319 …}
          +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2318 …}
          +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2316 …}
          -id: 143393
          -bodyTs: "'amd':4 'base':25 'care':8,13 'desktop':11 'free':17 'intel':5 'lab':30 'linux':10,24 'linux-bas':23 'lucrat':22 'nvidia':7 'product':26 'rat':31 're':28 'test':18"
          +ranking: 0
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          +apId: "https://feddit.nl/comment/4735467"
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          +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700501810 {#2321
            date: 2023-11-20 18:36:50.0 +01:00
          }
          +"title": 143393
        }
        0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2325
          +user: App\Entity\User {#259}
          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1361 …2}
          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …2}
          +image: null
          +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2327 …}
          +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1403 …}
          +body: """
            They aren’t facts, again, they’re wishful thinking. I’m a long time contributor and developer and I can assure you that with things as complex as X and Wayland things would move slowly even if everybody was of the same mind, let alone in the “herding cats” style of FOSS.\n
            \n
            Wayland has been in development for 15 years and it’s still not ready – please, it’s not, and stomping our feet and claiming otherwise won’t make it so. Another 5 years will probably see it reach a more stable state.\n
            \n
            What do I mean by ready? Well the desktop stack [on Linux and *NIX] is extremely complex. Whenever you’re dealing with something extremely complex in software, over the years, you amass a large amount of solutions that solve real world problems. That’s what I call “ready”. Most of those solutions will be dealing with quirks and use cases which do not affect everybody equally, but they’re each crucial in their own way to a varying slice of the userbase.\n
            \n
            Whenever you rewrite something from scratch you throw away the bulk of those quirks. It’s a common fallacy for developers to look at the shiny new thing and think that it’s better. In reality it’s worthless without the quirks, and accumulating those quirks all over again takes a long time. X has been accumulating them for 40 years. Wayland is barely scratching the surface.\n
            \n
            The fact the protocol places and splits the burden over the various DE and WM teams will NOT help. We will need libraries that solve the same problem once instead of over and over, and most DE/WM will come to depend on those libraries. The end result will be eerily similar to X. Ironically, by the time Wayland will be done it will have spent a comparable time in development to X, and will have accumulated the same amount of baggage that people dislike about X.\n
            \n
            > What percentage of the Linux Desktop universe are you expecting will still be using X at the end of 2025?\n
            \n
            More or less the same that’s using X right now. GNOME, KDE and the various distros will get a bloody nose trying to force Wayland through but if that’s the only way they learn, so be it.\n
            \n
            The Steam Deck actually has one of the few use cases where Wayland actually makes sense, it’s a turnkey, highly controlled stack (both software and hardware) where users don’t have any reasons to care about what’s under the hood. I expect them to switch ASAP.\n
            \n
            Another place where Wayland can be used straightaway is the desktop graphical login screen (which is the original reason it was created for anyway). It’s a singular application with reduced requirements and simplistic interactions.
            """
          +lang: "en"
          +isAdult: false
          +favouriteCount: 1
          +score: 0
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            date: 2023-11-20 09:43:35.0 +01:00
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          +ip: null
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            "@theshatterstone54@feddit.uk"
            "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
            "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
            "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
            "@LeFantome@programming.dev"
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          +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2329 …}
          +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2323 …}
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          +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2340 …}
          +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2342 …}
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      > You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
      \n
      All I see is a rift in the community over one side pushing software that’s beta-quality at best, and acting very arrogant and dismissive towards real adoption impediments.\n
      \n
      Which is par for the course for Linux, naturally, but “it’s happening” is wishful thinking at this stage. At this rate and with this attitude it will take at least another 5 years.\n
      \n
      Wayland’s worst enemy is its own fans.
      """
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          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
          \n
          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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      +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
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      +body: """
        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
        \n
        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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            “Linux” is not an entity with well defined goals, it’s a community that mostly does whatever it wants. That has the fortunate side effect of producing labors of love in software, that prove really useful in the real world. But it also ignores things like user experience, which affect things like the desktop the most.\n
            \n
            On Linux the user is a second-class citizen, because worth in the community is determined by how much a person contributes (in code, testing, artwork, documentation etc.)\n
            \n
            The Linux mindset is best expressed by a quote from Simon Travaglia (which I paraphrase because I don’t remember it verbatim): “We’re tasked with the well-being of the servers, not the users. They’re lucky we even let them log in since users technically *upset* the smooth operation of the servers.”
            """
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            I’m glad Wayland solves problems for you, but it creates them for others.\n
            \n
            Imagine being forced to go the other way. Could you be coerced into going back to Xorg? What would you do if a distro attempted to do that to you?
            """
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          +body: """
            You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
            \n
            Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
            """
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            > but why should AMD, Intel and NVIDIA care about Linux desktop\n
            \n
            They care because it’s free testing for their more lucrative Linux-based products. We’re their lab rats.
            """
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          +body: """
            They aren’t facts, again, they’re wishful thinking. I’m a long time contributor and developer and I can assure you that with things as complex as X and Wayland things would move slowly even if everybody was of the same mind, let alone in the “herding cats” style of FOSS.\n
            \n
            Wayland has been in development for 15 years and it’s still not ready – please, it’s not, and stomping our feet and claiming otherwise won’t make it so. Another 5 years will probably see it reach a more stable state.\n
            \n
            What do I mean by ready? Well the desktop stack [on Linux and *NIX] is extremely complex. Whenever you’re dealing with something extremely complex in software, over the years, you amass a large amount of solutions that solve real world problems. That’s what I call “ready”. Most of those solutions will be dealing with quirks and use cases which do not affect everybody equally, but they’re each crucial in their own way to a varying slice of the userbase.\n
            \n
            Whenever you rewrite something from scratch you throw away the bulk of those quirks. It’s a common fallacy for developers to look at the shiny new thing and think that it’s better. In reality it’s worthless without the quirks, and accumulating those quirks all over again takes a long time. X has been accumulating them for 40 years. Wayland is barely scratching the surface.\n
            \n
            The fact the protocol places and splits the burden over the various DE and WM teams will NOT help. We will need libraries that solve the same problem once instead of over and over, and most DE/WM will come to depend on those libraries. The end result will be eerily similar to X. Ironically, by the time Wayland will be done it will have spent a comparable time in development to X, and will have accumulated the same amount of baggage that people dislike about X.\n
            \n
            > What percentage of the Linux Desktop universe are you expecting will still be using X at the end of 2025?\n
            \n
            More or less the same that’s using X right now. GNOME, KDE and the various distros will get a bloody nose trying to force Wayland through but if that’s the only way they learn, so be it.\n
            \n
            The Steam Deck actually has one of the few use cases where Wayland actually makes sense, it’s a turnkey, highly controlled stack (both software and hardware) where users don’t have any reasons to care about what’s under the hood. I expect them to switch ASAP.\n
            \n
            Another place where Wayland can be used straightaway is the desktop graphical login screen (which is the original reason it was created for anyway). It’s a singular application with reduced requirements and simplistic interactions.
            """
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      > You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
      \n
      All I see is a rift in the community over one side pushing software that’s beta-quality at best, and acting very arrogant and dismissive towards real adoption impediments.\n
      \n
      Which is par for the course for Linux, naturally, but “it’s happening” is wishful thinking at this stage. At this rate and with this attitude it will take at least another 5 years.\n
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          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
          - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
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          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
          \n
          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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      +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
      +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
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      +body: """
        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
        \n
        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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        5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2086}
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          +body: """
            “Linux” is not an entity with well defined goals, it’s a community that mostly does whatever it wants. That has the fortunate side effect of producing labors of love in software, that prove really useful in the real world. But it also ignores things like user experience, which affect things like the desktop the most.\n
            \n
            On Linux the user is a second-class citizen, because worth in the community is determined by how much a person contributes (in code, testing, artwork, documentation etc.)\n
            \n
            The Linux mindset is best expressed by a quote from Simon Travaglia (which I paraphrase because I don’t remember it verbatim): “We’re tasked with the well-being of the servers, not the users. They’re lucky we even let them log in since users technically *upset* the smooth operation of the servers.”
            """
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            "@theshatterstone54@feddit.uk"
            "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
            "@michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
            "@LeFantome@programming.dev"
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        }
        3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2012
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          +body: """
            I’m glad Wayland solves problems for you, but it creates them for others.\n
            \n
            Imagine being forced to go the other way. Could you be coerced into going back to Xorg? What would you do if a distro attempted to do that to you?
            """
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          +body: """
            You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
            \n
            Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
            """
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            date: 2023-11-19 03:09:37.0 +01:00
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          +"title": 138758
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        1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2312
          +user: App\Entity\User {#259}
          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1361 …2}
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          +body: """
            > but why should AMD, Intel and NVIDIA care about Linux desktop\n
            \n
            They care because it’s free testing for their more lucrative Linux-based products. We’re their lab rats.
            """
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            "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
            "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
            "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
          ]
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          +"title": 143393
        }
        0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2325
          +user: App\Entity\User {#259}
          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1361 …2}
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          +body: """
            They aren’t facts, again, they’re wishful thinking. I’m a long time contributor and developer and I can assure you that with things as complex as X and Wayland things would move slowly even if everybody was of the same mind, let alone in the “herding cats” style of FOSS.\n
            \n
            Wayland has been in development for 15 years and it’s still not ready – please, it’s not, and stomping our feet and claiming otherwise won’t make it so. Another 5 years will probably see it reach a more stable state.\n
            \n
            What do I mean by ready? Well the desktop stack [on Linux and *NIX] is extremely complex. Whenever you’re dealing with something extremely complex in software, over the years, you amass a large amount of solutions that solve real world problems. That’s what I call “ready”. Most of those solutions will be dealing with quirks and use cases which do not affect everybody equally, but they’re each crucial in their own way to a varying slice of the userbase.\n
            \n
            Whenever you rewrite something from scratch you throw away the bulk of those quirks. It’s a common fallacy for developers to look at the shiny new thing and think that it’s better. In reality it’s worthless without the quirks, and accumulating those quirks all over again takes a long time. X has been accumulating them for 40 years. Wayland is barely scratching the surface.\n
            \n
            The fact the protocol places and splits the burden over the various DE and WM teams will NOT help. We will need libraries that solve the same problem once instead of over and over, and most DE/WM will come to depend on those libraries. The end result will be eerily similar to X. Ironically, by the time Wayland will be done it will have spent a comparable time in development to X, and will have accumulated the same amount of baggage that people dislike about X.\n
            \n
            > What percentage of the Linux Desktop universe are you expecting will still be using X at the end of 2025?\n
            \n
            More or less the same that’s using X right now. GNOME, KDE and the various distros will get a bloody nose trying to force Wayland through but if that’s the only way they learn, so be it.\n
            \n
            The Steam Deck actually has one of the few use cases where Wayland actually makes sense, it’s a turnkey, highly controlled stack (both software and hardware) where users don’t have any reasons to care about what’s under the hood. I expect them to switch ASAP.\n
            \n
            Another place where Wayland can be used straightaway is the desktop graphical login screen (which is the original reason it was created for anyway). It’s a singular application with reduced requirements and simplistic interactions.
            """
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      +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700502248 {#2910
        date: 2023-11-20 18:44:08.0 +01:00
      }
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700219396 {#2787
        date: 2023-11-17 12:09:56.0 +01:00
      }
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       …2
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    +body: """
      > You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
      \n
      All I see is a rift in the community over one side pushing software that’s beta-quality at best, and acting very arrogant and dismissive towards real adoption impediments.\n
      \n
      Which is par for the course for Linux, naturally, but “it’s happening” is wishful thinking at this stage. At this rate and with this attitude it will take at least another 5 years.\n
      \n
      Wayland’s worst enemy is its own fans.
      """
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      +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
      +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
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      +body: """
        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
        \n
        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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          +body: """
            > You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
            \n
            All I see is a rift in the community over one side pushing software that’s beta-quality at best, and acting very arrogant and dismissive towards real adoption impediments.\n
            \n
            Which is par for the course for Linux, naturally, but “it’s happening” is wishful thinking at this stage. At this rate and with this attitude it will take at least another 5 years.\n
            \n
            Wayland’s worst enemy is its own fans.
            """
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            date: 2023-11-19 22:48:05.0 +01:00
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            "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
            "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
            "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
            "@LeFantome@programming.dev"
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          +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2093 …}
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          -id: 141068
          -bodyTs: "'5':74 'act':33 'adopt':40 'anoth':73 'arrog':35 'attitud':67 'best':31 'beta':28 'beta-qu':27 'communiti':19 'cours':47 'dismiss':37 'enemi':79 'fan':83 'forgot':2 'happen':10,54 'impedi':41 'least':72 'linux':49 'natur':50 'one':21 'par':44 'part':4 'push':23 'qualiti':29 'rate':63 'real':39 'rift':16 'see':13 'side':22 'softwar':24 'stage':60 'take':70 'think':57 'toward':38 'wayland':76 'wish':56 'worst':78 'year':75"
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            date: 2023-11-19 22:48:05.0 +01:00
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        4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2083}
        3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2012
          +user: App\Entity\User {#259}
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          +body: """
            I’m glad Wayland solves problems for you, but it creates them for others.\n
            \n
            Imagine being forced to go the other way. Could you be coerced into going back to Xorg? What would you do if a distro attempted to do that to you?
            """
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            date: 2023-11-19 22:21:07.0 +01:00
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            "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
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          -id: 140989
          -bodyTs: "'attempt':39 'back':29 'coerc':26 'could':23 'creat':11 'distro':38 'forc':17 'glad':3 'go':19,28 'imagin':15 'm':2 'other':14 'problem':6 'solv':5 'way':22 'wayland':4 'would':33 'xorg':31"
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          +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700428867 {#2029
            date: 2023-11-19 22:21:07.0 +01:00
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          +"title": 140989
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        2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1363
          +user: App\Entity\User {#259}
          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1361 …2}
          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …2}
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          +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1362 …}
          +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1403 …}
          +body: """
            You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
            \n
            Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
            """
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            date: 2023-11-19 03:09:37.0 +01:00
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            date: 2023-11-19 03:09:37.0 +01:00
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          +"title": 138758
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        1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2312
          +user: App\Entity\User {#259}
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          +body: """
            > but why should AMD, Intel and NVIDIA care about Linux desktop\n
            \n
            They care because it’s free testing for their more lucrative Linux-based products. We’re their lab rats.
            """
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            "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
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            "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
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          -id: 143393
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            date: 2023-11-20 18:36:50.0 +01:00
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          +"title": 143393
        }
        0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2325
          +user: App\Entity\User {#259}
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          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …2}
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          +body: """
            They aren’t facts, again, they’re wishful thinking. I’m a long time contributor and developer and I can assure you that with things as complex as X and Wayland things would move slowly even if everybody was of the same mind, let alone in the “herding cats” style of FOSS.\n
            \n
            Wayland has been in development for 15 years and it’s still not ready – please, it’s not, and stomping our feet and claiming otherwise won’t make it so. Another 5 years will probably see it reach a more stable state.\n
            \n
            What do I mean by ready? Well the desktop stack [on Linux and *NIX] is extremely complex. Whenever you’re dealing with something extremely complex in software, over the years, you amass a large amount of solutions that solve real world problems. That’s what I call “ready”. Most of those solutions will be dealing with quirks and use cases which do not affect everybody equally, but they’re each crucial in their own way to a varying slice of the userbase.\n
            \n
            Whenever you rewrite something from scratch you throw away the bulk of those quirks. It’s a common fallacy for developers to look at the shiny new thing and think that it’s better. In reality it’s worthless without the quirks, and accumulating those quirks all over again takes a long time. X has been accumulating them for 40 years. Wayland is barely scratching the surface.\n
            \n
            The fact the protocol places and splits the burden over the various DE and WM teams will NOT help. We will need libraries that solve the same problem once instead of over and over, and most DE/WM will come to depend on those libraries. The end result will be eerily similar to X. Ironically, by the time Wayland will be done it will have spent a comparable time in development to X, and will have accumulated the same amount of baggage that people dislike about X.\n
            \n
            > What percentage of the Linux Desktop universe are you expecting will still be using X at the end of 2025?\n
            \n
            More or less the same that’s using X right now. GNOME, KDE and the various distros will get a bloody nose trying to force Wayland through but if that’s the only way they learn, so be it.\n
            \n
            The Steam Deck actually has one of the few use cases where Wayland actually makes sense, it’s a turnkey, highly controlled stack (both software and hardware) where users don’t have any reasons to care about what’s under the hood. I expect them to switch ASAP.\n
            \n
            Another place where Wayland can be used straightaway is the desktop graphical login screen (which is the original reason it was created for anyway). It’s a singular application with reduced requirements and simplistic interactions.
            """
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      “Linux” is not an entity with well defined goals, it’s a community that mostly does whatever it wants. That has the fortunate side effect of producing labors of love in software, that prove really useful in the real world. But it also ignores things like user experience, which affect things like the desktop the most.\n
      \n
      On Linux the user is a second-class citizen, because worth in the community is determined by how much a person contributes (in code, testing, artwork, documentation etc.)\n
      \n
      The Linux mindset is best expressed by a quote from Simon Travaglia (which I paraphrase because I don’t remember it verbatim): “We’re tasked with the well-being of the servers, not the users. They’re lucky we even let them log in since users technically *upset* the smooth operation of the servers.”
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          From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
          \n
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          - No misinformation\n
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          ### Related Communities\n
          \n
          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
          - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
          \n
          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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      +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
      +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
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      +body: """
        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
        \n
        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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            > You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
            \n
            All I see is a rift in the community over one side pushing software that’s beta-quality at best, and acting very arrogant and dismissive towards real adoption impediments.\n
            \n
            Which is par for the course for Linux, naturally, but “it’s happening” is wishful thinking at this stage. At this rate and with this attitude it will take at least another 5 years.\n
            \n
            Wayland’s worst enemy is its own fans.
            """
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            I’m glad Wayland solves problems for you, but it creates them for others.\n
            \n
            Imagine being forced to go the other way. Could you be coerced into going back to Xorg? What would you do if a distro attempted to do that to you?
            """
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          +body: """
            You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
            \n
            Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
            """
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            > but why should AMD, Intel and NVIDIA care about Linux desktop\n
            \n
            They care because it’s free testing for their more lucrative Linux-based products. We’re their lab rats.
            """
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          +body: """
            They aren’t facts, again, they’re wishful thinking. I’m a long time contributor and developer and I can assure you that with things as complex as X and Wayland things would move slowly even if everybody was of the same mind, let alone in the “herding cats” style of FOSS.\n
            \n
            Wayland has been in development for 15 years and it’s still not ready – please, it’s not, and stomping our feet and claiming otherwise won’t make it so. Another 5 years will probably see it reach a more stable state.\n
            \n
            What do I mean by ready? Well the desktop stack [on Linux and *NIX] is extremely complex. Whenever you’re dealing with something extremely complex in software, over the years, you amass a large amount of solutions that solve real world problems. That’s what I call “ready”. Most of those solutions will be dealing with quirks and use cases which do not affect everybody equally, but they’re each crucial in their own way to a varying slice of the userbase.\n
            \n
            Whenever you rewrite something from scratch you throw away the bulk of those quirks. It’s a common fallacy for developers to look at the shiny new thing and think that it’s better. In reality it’s worthless without the quirks, and accumulating those quirks all over again takes a long time. X has been accumulating them for 40 years. Wayland is barely scratching the surface.\n
            \n
            The fact the protocol places and splits the burden over the various DE and WM teams will NOT help. We will need libraries that solve the same problem once instead of over and over, and most DE/WM will come to depend on those libraries. The end result will be eerily similar to X. Ironically, by the time Wayland will be done it will have spent a comparable time in development to X, and will have accumulated the same amount of baggage that people dislike about X.\n
            \n
            > What percentage of the Linux Desktop universe are you expecting will still be using X at the end of 2025?\n
            \n
            More or less the same that’s using X right now. GNOME, KDE and the various distros will get a bloody nose trying to force Wayland through but if that’s the only way they learn, so be it.\n
            \n
            The Steam Deck actually has one of the few use cases where Wayland actually makes sense, it’s a turnkey, highly controlled stack (both software and hardware) where users don’t have any reasons to care about what’s under the hood. I expect them to switch ASAP.\n
            \n
            Another place where Wayland can be used straightaway is the desktop graphical login screen (which is the original reason it was created for anyway). It’s a singular application with reduced requirements and simplistic interactions.
            """
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      “Linux” is not an entity with well defined goals, it’s a community that mostly does whatever it wants. That has the fortunate side effect of producing labors of love in software, that prove really useful in the real world. But it also ignores things like user experience, which affect things like the desktop the most.\n
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      On Linux the user is a second-class citizen, because worth in the community is determined by how much a person contributes (in code, testing, artwork, documentation etc.)\n
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      The Linux mindset is best expressed by a quote from Simon Travaglia (which I paraphrase because I don’t remember it verbatim): “We’re tasked with the well-being of the servers, not the users. They’re lucky we even let them log in since users technically *upset* the smooth operation of the servers.”
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Component
App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent {#6047
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687169920 {#269
      date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
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  +showAvatar: false
}
date App\Twig\Components\DateComponent 12.0 MiB 0.15 ms
Input props
[
  "date" => DateTimeImmutable @1700429766 {#2097
    date: 2023-11-19 22:36:06.0 +01:00
  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateComponent {#6103
  +date: DateTimeImmutable @1700429766 {#2097
    date: 2023-11-19 22:36:06.0 +01:00
  }
}
date_edited App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent 12.0 MiB 0.09 ms
Input props
[
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    date: 2023-11-19 22:36:06.0 +01:00
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  "editedAt" => null
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent {#6157
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700429766 {#2097
    date: 2023-11-19 22:36:06.0 +01:00
  }
  +editedAt: null
}
user_avatar App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent 12.0 MiB 0.13 ms
Input props
[
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  "width" => 40
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  "asLink" => true
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent {#6211
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      date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
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}
vote App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent 12.0 MiB 0.42 ms
Input props
[
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    +user: App\Entity\User {#259
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      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687169920 {#269
        date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
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    +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1361
      +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2999
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          date: 2023-07-12 11:57:38.0 +02:00
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         …2
      }
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585
        +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#4079 …}
        +name: "linux@lemmy.ml"
        +title: "linux"
        +description: """
          From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
          \n
          Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).\n
          \n
          Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.\n
          \n
          ### Rules\n
          \n
          - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
          - No misinformation\n
          - No NSFW content\n
          - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
          \n
          ### Related Communities\n
          \n
          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
          - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
          \n
          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
          """
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          date: 2024-09-29 03:31:31.538658 UTC (+00:00)
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          date: 2023-11-02 13:51:08.0 +01:00
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      +image: null
      +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2956 …}
      +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
      +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
        \n
        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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            > You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
            \n
            All I see is a rift in the community over one side pushing software that’s beta-quality at best, and acting very arrogant and dismissive towards real adoption impediments.\n
            \n
            Which is par for the course for Linux, naturally, but “it’s happening” is wishful thinking at this stage. At this rate and with this attitude it will take at least another 5 years.\n
            \n
            Wayland’s worst enemy is its own fans.
            """
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            I’m glad Wayland solves problems for you, but it creates them for others.\n
            \n
            Imagine being forced to go the other way. Could you be coerced into going back to Xorg? What would you do if a distro attempted to do that to you?
            """
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          +body: """
            You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
            \n
            Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
            """
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            > but why should AMD, Intel and NVIDIA care about Linux desktop\n
            \n
            They care because it’s free testing for their more lucrative Linux-based products. We’re their lab rats.
            """
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            They aren’t facts, again, they’re wishful thinking. I’m a long time contributor and developer and I can assure you that with things as complex as X and Wayland things would move slowly even if everybody was of the same mind, let alone in the “herding cats” style of FOSS.\n
            \n
            Wayland has been in development for 15 years and it’s still not ready – please, it’s not, and stomping our feet and claiming otherwise won’t make it so. Another 5 years will probably see it reach a more stable state.\n
            \n
            What do I mean by ready? Well the desktop stack [on Linux and *NIX] is extremely complex. Whenever you’re dealing with something extremely complex in software, over the years, you amass a large amount of solutions that solve real world problems. That’s what I call “ready”. Most of those solutions will be dealing with quirks and use cases which do not affect everybody equally, but they’re each crucial in their own way to a varying slice of the userbase.\n
            \n
            Whenever you rewrite something from scratch you throw away the bulk of those quirks. It’s a common fallacy for developers to look at the shiny new thing and think that it’s better. In reality it’s worthless without the quirks, and accumulating those quirks all over again takes a long time. X has been accumulating them for 40 years. Wayland is barely scratching the surface.\n
            \n
            The fact the protocol places and splits the burden over the various DE and WM teams will NOT help. We will need libraries that solve the same problem once instead of over and over, and most DE/WM will come to depend on those libraries. The end result will be eerily similar to X. Ironically, by the time Wayland will be done it will have spent a comparable time in development to X, and will have accumulated the same amount of baggage that people dislike about X.\n
            \n
            > What percentage of the Linux Desktop universe are you expecting will still be using X at the end of 2025?\n
            \n
            More or less the same that’s using X right now. GNOME, KDE and the various distros will get a bloody nose trying to force Wayland through but if that’s the only way they learn, so be it.\n
            \n
            The Steam Deck actually has one of the few use cases where Wayland actually makes sense, it’s a turnkey, highly controlled stack (both software and hardware) where users don’t have any reasons to care about what’s under the hood. I expect them to switch ASAP.\n
            \n
            Another place where Wayland can be used straightaway is the desktop graphical login screen (which is the original reason it was created for anyway). It’s a singular application with reduced requirements and simplistic interactions.
            """
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          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
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          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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      +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
      +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
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      +body: """
        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
        \n
        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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        date: 2024-02-17 22:16:50.0 +01:00
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        5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2086
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          +body: """
            > You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
            \n
            All I see is a rift in the community over one side pushing software that’s beta-quality at best, and acting very arrogant and dismissive towards real adoption impediments.\n
            \n
            Which is par for the course for Linux, naturally, but “it’s happening” is wishful thinking at this stage. At this rate and with this attitude it will take at least another 5 years.\n
            \n
            Wayland’s worst enemy is its own fans.
            """
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            date: 2023-11-19 22:48:05.0 +01:00
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            "@theshatterstone54@feddit.uk"
            "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
            "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
            "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
            "@LeFantome@programming.dev"
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          +body: """
            I’m glad Wayland solves problems for you, but it creates them for others.\n
            \n
            Imagine being forced to go the other way. Could you be coerced into going back to Xorg? What would you do if a distro attempted to do that to you?
            """
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            You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
            \n
            Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
            """
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            > but why should AMD, Intel and NVIDIA care about Linux desktop\n
            \n
            They care because it’s free testing for their more lucrative Linux-based products. We’re their lab rats.
            """
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            They aren’t facts, again, they’re wishful thinking. I’m a long time contributor and developer and I can assure you that with things as complex as X and Wayland things would move slowly even if everybody was of the same mind, let alone in the “herding cats” style of FOSS.\n
            \n
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            \n
            What do I mean by ready? Well the desktop stack [on Linux and *NIX] is extremely complex. Whenever you’re dealing with something extremely complex in software, over the years, you amass a large amount of solutions that solve real world problems. That’s what I call “ready”. Most of those solutions will be dealing with quirks and use cases which do not affect everybody equally, but they’re each crucial in their own way to a varying slice of the userbase.\n
            \n
            Whenever you rewrite something from scratch you throw away the bulk of those quirks. It’s a common fallacy for developers to look at the shiny new thing and think that it’s better. In reality it’s worthless without the quirks, and accumulating those quirks all over again takes a long time. X has been accumulating them for 40 years. Wayland is barely scratching the surface.\n
            \n
            The fact the protocol places and splits the burden over the various DE and WM teams will NOT help. We will need libraries that solve the same problem once instead of over and over, and most DE/WM will come to depend on those libraries. The end result will be eerily similar to X. Ironically, by the time Wayland will be done it will have spent a comparable time in development to X, and will have accumulated the same amount of baggage that people dislike about X.\n
            \n
            > What percentage of the Linux Desktop universe are you expecting will still be using X at the end of 2025?\n
            \n
            More or less the same that’s using X right now. GNOME, KDE and the various distros will get a bloody nose trying to force Wayland through but if that’s the only way they learn, so be it.\n
            \n
            The Steam Deck actually has one of the few use cases where Wayland actually makes sense, it’s a turnkey, highly controlled stack (both software and hardware) where users don’t have any reasons to care about what’s under the hood. I expect them to switch ASAP.\n
            \n
            Another place where Wayland can be used straightaway is the desktop graphical login screen (which is the original reason it was created for anyway). It’s a singular application with reduced requirements and simplistic interactions.
            """
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      “Linux” is not an entity with well defined goals, it’s a community that mostly does whatever it wants. That has the fortunate side effect of producing labors of love in software, that prove really useful in the real world. But it also ignores things like user experience, which affect things like the desktop the most.\n
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          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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      +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
      +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
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      +body: """
        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
        \n
        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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        5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2086
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          +body: """
            > You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
            \n
            All I see is a rift in the community over one side pushing software that’s beta-quality at best, and acting very arrogant and dismissive towards real adoption impediments.\n
            \n
            Which is par for the course for Linux, naturally, but “it’s happening” is wishful thinking at this stage. At this rate and with this attitude it will take at least another 5 years.\n
            \n
            Wayland’s worst enemy is its own fans.
            """
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            "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
            "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
            "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
            "@LeFantome@programming.dev"
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        4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2083}
        3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2012
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          +body: """
            I’m glad Wayland solves problems for you, but it creates them for others.\n
            \n
            Imagine being forced to go the other way. Could you be coerced into going back to Xorg? What would you do if a distro attempted to do that to you?
            """
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            date: 2023-11-19 22:21:07.0 +01:00
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          -id: 140989
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            date: 2023-11-19 22:21:07.0 +01:00
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        2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1363
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          +body: """
            You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
            \n
            Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
            """
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        1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2312
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          +body: """
            > but why should AMD, Intel and NVIDIA care about Linux desktop\n
            \n
            They care because it’s free testing for their more lucrative Linux-based products. We’re their lab rats.
            """
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            date: 2023-11-20 18:36:50.0 +01:00
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        0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2325
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          +body: """
            They aren’t facts, again, they’re wishful thinking. I’m a long time contributor and developer and I can assure you that with things as complex as X and Wayland things would move slowly even if everybody was of the same mind, let alone in the “herding cats” style of FOSS.\n
            \n
            Wayland has been in development for 15 years and it’s still not ready – please, it’s not, and stomping our feet and claiming otherwise won’t make it so. Another 5 years will probably see it reach a more stable state.\n
            \n
            What do I mean by ready? Well the desktop stack [on Linux and *NIX] is extremely complex. Whenever you’re dealing with something extremely complex in software, over the years, you amass a large amount of solutions that solve real world problems. That’s what I call “ready”. Most of those solutions will be dealing with quirks and use cases which do not affect everybody equally, but they’re each crucial in their own way to a varying slice of the userbase.\n
            \n
            Whenever you rewrite something from scratch you throw away the bulk of those quirks. It’s a common fallacy for developers to look at the shiny new thing and think that it’s better. In reality it’s worthless without the quirks, and accumulating those quirks all over again takes a long time. X has been accumulating them for 40 years. Wayland is barely scratching the surface.\n
            \n
            The fact the protocol places and splits the burden over the various DE and WM teams will NOT help. We will need libraries that solve the same problem once instead of over and over, and most DE/WM will come to depend on those libraries. The end result will be eerily similar to X. Ironically, by the time Wayland will be done it will have spent a comparable time in development to X, and will have accumulated the same amount of baggage that people dislike about X.\n
            \n
            > What percentage of the Linux Desktop universe are you expecting will still be using X at the end of 2025?\n
            \n
            More or less the same that’s using X right now. GNOME, KDE and the various distros will get a bloody nose trying to force Wayland through but if that’s the only way they learn, so be it.\n
            \n
            The Steam Deck actually has one of the few use cases where Wayland actually makes sense, it’s a turnkey, highly controlled stack (both software and hardware) where users don’t have any reasons to care about what’s under the hood. I expect them to switch ASAP.\n
            \n
            Another place where Wayland can be used straightaway is the desktop graphical login screen (which is the original reason it was created for anyway). It’s a singular application with reduced requirements and simplistic interactions.
            """
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      “Linux” is not an entity with well defined goals, it’s a community that mostly does whatever it wants. That has the fortunate side effect of producing labors of love in software, that prove really useful in the real world. But it also ignores things like user experience, which affect things like the desktop the most.\n
      \n
      On Linux the user is a second-class citizen, because worth in the community is determined by how much a person contributes (in code, testing, artwork, documentation etc.)\n
      \n
      The Linux mindset is best expressed by a quote from Simon Travaglia (which I paraphrase because I don’t remember it verbatim): “We’re tasked with the well-being of the servers, not the users. They’re lucky we even let them log in since users technically *upset* the smooth operation of the servers.”
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          \n
          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
          - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
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          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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      +body: """
        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
        \n
        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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        5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2086
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          +body: """
            > You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
            \n
            All I see is a rift in the community over one side pushing software that’s beta-quality at best, and acting very arrogant and dismissive towards real adoption impediments.\n
            \n
            Which is par for the course for Linux, naturally, but “it’s happening” is wishful thinking at this stage. At this rate and with this attitude it will take at least another 5 years.\n
            \n
            Wayland’s worst enemy is its own fans.
            """
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            I’m glad Wayland solves problems for you, but it creates them for others.\n
            \n
            Imagine being forced to go the other way. Could you be coerced into going back to Xorg? What would you do if a distro attempted to do that to you?
            """
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          +body: """
            You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
            \n
            Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
            """
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            > but why should AMD, Intel and NVIDIA care about Linux desktop\n
            \n
            They care because it’s free testing for their more lucrative Linux-based products. We’re their lab rats.
            """
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          +body: """
            They aren’t facts, again, they’re wishful thinking. I’m a long time contributor and developer and I can assure you that with things as complex as X and Wayland things would move slowly even if everybody was of the same mind, let alone in the “herding cats” style of FOSS.\n
            \n
            Wayland has been in development for 15 years and it’s still not ready – please, it’s not, and stomping our feet and claiming otherwise won’t make it so. Another 5 years will probably see it reach a more stable state.\n
            \n
            What do I mean by ready? Well the desktop stack [on Linux and *NIX] is extremely complex. Whenever you’re dealing with something extremely complex in software, over the years, you amass a large amount of solutions that solve real world problems. That’s what I call “ready”. Most of those solutions will be dealing with quirks and use cases which do not affect everybody equally, but they’re each crucial in their own way to a varying slice of the userbase.\n
            \n
            Whenever you rewrite something from scratch you throw away the bulk of those quirks. It’s a common fallacy for developers to look at the shiny new thing and think that it’s better. In reality it’s worthless without the quirks, and accumulating those quirks all over again takes a long time. X has been accumulating them for 40 years. Wayland is barely scratching the surface.\n
            \n
            The fact the protocol places and splits the burden over the various DE and WM teams will NOT help. We will need libraries that solve the same problem once instead of over and over, and most DE/WM will come to depend on those libraries. The end result will be eerily similar to X. Ironically, by the time Wayland will be done it will have spent a comparable time in development to X, and will have accumulated the same amount of baggage that people dislike about X.\n
            \n
            > What percentage of the Linux Desktop universe are you expecting will still be using X at the end of 2025?\n
            \n
            More or less the same that’s using X right now. GNOME, KDE and the various distros will get a bloody nose trying to force Wayland through but if that’s the only way they learn, so be it.\n
            \n
            The Steam Deck actually has one of the few use cases where Wayland actually makes sense, it’s a turnkey, highly controlled stack (both software and hardware) where users don’t have any reasons to care about what’s under the hood. I expect them to switch ASAP.\n
            \n
            Another place where Wayland can be used straightaway is the desktop graphical login screen (which is the original reason it was created for anyway). It’s a singular application with reduced requirements and simplistic interactions.
            """
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      “Linux” is not an entity with well defined goals, it’s a community that mostly does whatever it wants. That has the fortunate side effect of producing labors of love in software, that prove really useful in the real world. But it also ignores things like user experience, which affect things like the desktop the most.\n
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          \n
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          \n
          Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.\n
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          \n
          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
          - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
          \n
          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
          """
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      +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
      +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
        \n
        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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        date: 2024-02-17 22:16:50.0 +01:00
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        5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2086
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          +body: """
            > You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
            \n
            All I see is a rift in the community over one side pushing software that’s beta-quality at best, and acting very arrogant and dismissive towards real adoption impediments.\n
            \n
            Which is par for the course for Linux, naturally, but “it’s happening” is wishful thinking at this stage. At this rate and with this attitude it will take at least another 5 years.\n
            \n
            Wayland’s worst enemy is its own fans.
            """
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            "@theshatterstone54@feddit.uk"
            "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
            "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
            "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
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            date: 2023-11-19 22:48:05.0 +01:00
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          +body: """
            “Linux” is not an entity with well defined goals, it’s a community that mostly does whatever it wants. That has the fortunate side effect of producing labors of love in software, that prove really useful in the real world. But it also ignores things like user experience, which affect things like the desktop the most.\n
            \n
            On Linux the user is a second-class citizen, because worth in the community is determined by how much a person contributes (in code, testing, artwork, documentation etc.)\n
            \n
            The Linux mindset is best expressed by a quote from Simon Travaglia (which I paraphrase because I don’t remember it verbatim): “We’re tasked with the well-being of the servers, not the users. They’re lucky we even let them log in since users technically *upset* the smooth operation of the servers.”
            """
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            "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
            "@michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
            "@LeFantome@programming.dev"
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            date: 2023-11-19 22:36:06.0 +01:00
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        }
        3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2012}
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          +body: """
            You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
            \n
            Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
            """
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            "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
            "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
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          +body: """
            > but why should AMD, Intel and NVIDIA care about Linux desktop\n
            \n
            They care because it’s free testing for their more lucrative Linux-based products. We’re their lab rats.
            """
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            "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
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            They aren’t facts, again, they’re wishful thinking. I’m a long time contributor and developer and I can assure you that with things as complex as X and Wayland things would move slowly even if everybody was of the same mind, let alone in the “herding cats” style of FOSS.\n
            \n
            Wayland has been in development for 15 years and it’s still not ready – please, it’s not, and stomping our feet and claiming otherwise won’t make it so. Another 5 years will probably see it reach a more stable state.\n
            \n
            What do I mean by ready? Well the desktop stack [on Linux and *NIX] is extremely complex. Whenever you’re dealing with something extremely complex in software, over the years, you amass a large amount of solutions that solve real world problems. That’s what I call “ready”. Most of those solutions will be dealing with quirks and use cases which do not affect everybody equally, but they’re each crucial in their own way to a varying slice of the userbase.\n
            \n
            Whenever you rewrite something from scratch you throw away the bulk of those quirks. It’s a common fallacy for developers to look at the shiny new thing and think that it’s better. In reality it’s worthless without the quirks, and accumulating those quirks all over again takes a long time. X has been accumulating them for 40 years. Wayland is barely scratching the surface.\n
            \n
            The fact the protocol places and splits the burden over the various DE and WM teams will NOT help. We will need libraries that solve the same problem once instead of over and over, and most DE/WM will come to depend on those libraries. The end result will be eerily similar to X. Ironically, by the time Wayland will be done it will have spent a comparable time in development to X, and will have accumulated the same amount of baggage that people dislike about X.\n
            \n
            > What percentage of the Linux Desktop universe are you expecting will still be using X at the end of 2025?\n
            \n
            More or less the same that’s using X right now. GNOME, KDE and the various distros will get a bloody nose trying to force Wayland through but if that’s the only way they learn, so be it.\n
            \n
            The Steam Deck actually has one of the few use cases where Wayland actually makes sense, it’s a turnkey, highly controlled stack (both software and hardware) where users don’t have any reasons to care about what’s under the hood. I expect them to switch ASAP.\n
            \n
            Another place where Wayland can be used straightaway is the desktop graphical login screen (which is the original reason it was created for anyway). It’s a singular application with reduced requirements and simplistic interactions.
            """
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      I’m glad Wayland solves problems for you, but it creates them for others.\n
      \n
      Imagine being forced to go the other way. Could you be coerced into going back to Xorg? What would you do if a distro attempted to do that to you?
      """
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          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
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          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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      +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
      +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
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      +body: """
        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
        \n
        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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          +body: """
            > You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
            \n
            All I see is a rift in the community over one side pushing software that’s beta-quality at best, and acting very arrogant and dismissive towards real adoption impediments.\n
            \n
            Which is par for the course for Linux, naturally, but “it’s happening” is wishful thinking at this stage. At this rate and with this attitude it will take at least another 5 years.\n
            \n
            Wayland’s worst enemy is its own fans.
            """
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          +body: """
            “Linux” is not an entity with well defined goals, it’s a community that mostly does whatever it wants. That has the fortunate side effect of producing labors of love in software, that prove really useful in the real world. But it also ignores things like user experience, which affect things like the desktop the most.\n
            \n
            On Linux the user is a second-class citizen, because worth in the community is determined by how much a person contributes (in code, testing, artwork, documentation etc.)\n
            \n
            The Linux mindset is best expressed by a quote from Simon Travaglia (which I paraphrase because I don’t remember it verbatim): “We’re tasked with the well-being of the servers, not the users. They’re lucky we even let them log in since users technically *upset* the smooth operation of the servers.”
            """
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            date: 2023-11-19 22:36:06.0 +01:00
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        }
        3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2012}
        2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1363
          +user: App\Entity\User {#259}
          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1361 …2}
          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …2}
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          +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1403 …}
          +body: """
            You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
            \n
            Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
            """
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        1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2312
          +user: App\Entity\User {#259}
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          +body: """
            > but why should AMD, Intel and NVIDIA care about Linux desktop\n
            \n
            They care because it’s free testing for their more lucrative Linux-based products. We’re their lab rats.
            """
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            date: 2023-11-20 18:36:50.0 +01:00
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          +"title": 143393
        }
        0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2325
          +user: App\Entity\User {#259}
          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1361 …2}
          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …2}
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          +body: """
            They aren’t facts, again, they’re wishful thinking. I’m a long time contributor and developer and I can assure you that with things as complex as X and Wayland things would move slowly even if everybody was of the same mind, let alone in the “herding cats” style of FOSS.\n
            \n
            Wayland has been in development for 15 years and it’s still not ready – please, it’s not, and stomping our feet and claiming otherwise won’t make it so. Another 5 years will probably see it reach a more stable state.\n
            \n
            What do I mean by ready? Well the desktop stack [on Linux and *NIX] is extremely complex. Whenever you’re dealing with something extremely complex in software, over the years, you amass a large amount of solutions that solve real world problems. That’s what I call “ready”. Most of those solutions will be dealing with quirks and use cases which do not affect everybody equally, but they’re each crucial in their own way to a varying slice of the userbase.\n
            \n
            Whenever you rewrite something from scratch you throw away the bulk of those quirks. It’s a common fallacy for developers to look at the shiny new thing and think that it’s better. In reality it’s worthless without the quirks, and accumulating those quirks all over again takes a long time. X has been accumulating them for 40 years. Wayland is barely scratching the surface.\n
            \n
            The fact the protocol places and splits the burden over the various DE and WM teams will NOT help. We will need libraries that solve the same problem once instead of over and over, and most DE/WM will come to depend on those libraries. The end result will be eerily similar to X. Ironically, by the time Wayland will be done it will have spent a comparable time in development to X, and will have accumulated the same amount of baggage that people dislike about X.\n
            \n
            > What percentage of the Linux Desktop universe are you expecting will still be using X at the end of 2025?\n
            \n
            More or less the same that’s using X right now. GNOME, KDE and the various distros will get a bloody nose trying to force Wayland through but if that’s the only way they learn, so be it.\n
            \n
            The Steam Deck actually has one of the few use cases where Wayland actually makes sense, it’s a turnkey, highly controlled stack (both software and hardware) where users don’t have any reasons to care about what’s under the hood. I expect them to switch ASAP.\n
            \n
            Another place where Wayland can be used straightaway is the desktop graphical login screen (which is the original reason it was created for anyway). It’s a singular application with reduced requirements and simplistic interactions.
            """
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      I’m glad Wayland solves problems for you, but it creates them for others.\n
      \n
      Imagine being forced to go the other way. Could you be coerced into going back to Xorg? What would you do if a distro attempted to do that to you?
      """
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user_inline App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent 12.0 MiB 0.17 ms
Input props
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Component
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date App\Twig\Components\DateComponent 12.0 MiB 0.15 ms
Input props
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    date: 2023-11-19 22:21:07.0 +01:00
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]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateComponent {#6703
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    date: 2023-11-19 22:21:07.0 +01:00
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}
date_edited App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent 12.0 MiB 0.09 ms
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]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent {#6757
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    date: 2023-11-19 22:21:07.0 +01:00
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}
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Input props
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Component
App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent {#6811
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vote App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent 12.0 MiB 0.36 ms
Input props
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          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
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          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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      +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
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      +body: """
        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
        \n
        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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          +body: """
            > You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
            \n
            All I see is a rift in the community over one side pushing software that’s beta-quality at best, and acting very arrogant and dismissive towards real adoption impediments.\n
            \n
            Which is par for the course for Linux, naturally, but “it’s happening” is wishful thinking at this stage. At this rate and with this attitude it will take at least another 5 years.\n
            \n
            Wayland’s worst enemy is its own fans.
            """
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            date: 2023-11-19 22:48:05.0 +01:00
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            "@theshatterstone54@feddit.uk"
            "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
            "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
            "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
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          -id: 141068
          -bodyTs: "'5':74 'act':33 'adopt':40 'anoth':73 'arrog':35 'attitud':67 'best':31 'beta':28 'beta-qu':27 'communiti':19 'cours':47 'dismiss':37 'enemi':79 'fan':83 'forgot':2 'happen':10,54 'impedi':41 'least':72 'linux':49 'natur':50 'one':21 'par':44 'part':4 'push':23 'qualiti':29 'rate':63 'real':39 'rift':16 'see':13 'side':22 'softwar':24 'stage':60 'take':70 'think':57 'toward':38 'wayland':76 'wish':56 'worst':78 'year':75"
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            date: 2023-11-19 22:48:05.0 +01:00
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          +"title": 141068
        }
        4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2083
          +user: App\Entity\User {#259}
          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1361 …2}
          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …2}
          +image: null
          +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2082 …}
          +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1403 …}
          +body: """
            “Linux” is not an entity with well defined goals, it’s a community that mostly does whatever it wants. That has the fortunate side effect of producing labors of love in software, that prove really useful in the real world. But it also ignores things like user experience, which affect things like the desktop the most.\n
            \n
            On Linux the user is a second-class citizen, because worth in the community is determined by how much a person contributes (in code, testing, artwork, documentation etc.)\n
            \n
            The Linux mindset is best expressed by a quote from Simon Travaglia (which I paraphrase because I don’t remember it verbatim): “We’re tasked with the well-being of the servers, not the users. They’re lucky we even let them log in since users technically *upset* the smooth operation of the servers.”
            """
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            "@theshatterstone54@feddit.uk"
            "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
            "@michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
            "@LeFantome@programming.dev"
          ]
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          -id: 141024
          -bodyTs: "'affect':50 'also':43 'artwork':83 'best':90 'citizen':66 'class':65 'code':81 'communiti':13,71 'contribut':79 'defin':8 'desktop':54 'determin':73 'document':84 'effect':25 'entiti':5 'etc':85 'even':126 'experi':48 'express':91 'fortun':23 'goal':9 'ignor':44 'labor':28 'let':127 'like':46,52 'linux':1,58,87 'log':129 'love':30 'lucki':124 'mindset':88 'most':15 'much':76 'oper':137 'paraphras':100 'person':78 'produc':27 'prove':34 'quot':94 're':109,123 'real':39 'realli':35 'rememb':105 'second':64 'second-class':63 'server':118,140 'side':24 'simon':96 'sinc':131 'smooth':136 'softwar':32 'task':110 'technic':133 'test':82 'thing':45,51 'travaglia':97 'upset':134 'use':36 'user':47,60,121,132 'verbatim':107 'want':19 'well':7,114 'well-b':113 'whatev':17 'world':40 'worth':68"
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          +apId: "https://feddit.nl/comment/4715830"
          +editedAt: null
          +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700429766 {#2097
            date: 2023-11-19 22:36:06.0 +01:00
          }
          +"title": 141024
        }
        3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2012}
        2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1363
          +user: App\Entity\User {#259}
          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1361 …2}
          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …2}
          +image: null
          +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1362 …}
          +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1403 …}
          +body: """
            You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
            \n
            Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
            """
          +lang: "en"
          +isAdult: false
          +favouriteCount: 2
          +score: 0
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            date: 2023-11-19 03:09:37.0 +01:00
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          +ip: null
          +tags: null
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            "@theshatterstone54@feddit.uk"
            "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
            "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
          ]
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          +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2030 …}
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          +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2025 …}
          +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2033 …}
          -id: 138758
          -bodyTs: "'adopt':44 'better':36 'come':40 'everyth':16 'featur':14 'fine':18 'forc':43 'forgot':2 'happen':28 'let':26 'll':39 'make':47 'natur':29 'need':9 'part':4 'peopl':23,48 'push':22 'readi':34 'reduc':13 'resent':49 'stop':21 'toward':24 'tri':41 'wayland':10,25 'work':17 'xorg':20"
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          +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700359777 {#1404
            date: 2023-11-19 03:09:37.0 +01:00
          }
          +"title": 138758
        }
        1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2312
          +user: App\Entity\User {#259}
          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1361 …2}
          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …2}
          +image: null
          +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2310 …}
          +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1403 …}
          +body: """
            > but why should AMD, Intel and NVIDIA care about Linux desktop\n
            \n
            They care because it’s free testing for their more lucrative Linux-based products. We’re their lab rats.
            """
          +lang: "en"
          +isAdult: false
          +favouriteCount: 1
          +score: 0
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            date: 2023-11-20 18:36:50.0 +01:00
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            "@theshatterstone54@feddit.uk"
            "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
            "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
            "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
          ]
          +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2307 …}
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          +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2319 …}
          +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2318 …}
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          -id: 143393
          -bodyTs: "'amd':4 'base':25 'care':8,13 'desktop':11 'free':17 'intel':5 'lab':30 'linux':10,24 'linux-bas':23 'lucrat':22 'nvidia':7 'product':26 'rat':31 're':28 'test':18"
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            date: 2023-11-20 18:36:50.0 +01:00
          }
          +"title": 143393
        }
        0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2325
          +user: App\Entity\User {#259}
          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1361 …2}
          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …2}
          +image: null
          +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2327 …}
          +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1403 …}
          +body: """
            They aren’t facts, again, they’re wishful thinking. I’m a long time contributor and developer and I can assure you that with things as complex as X and Wayland things would move slowly even if everybody was of the same mind, let alone in the “herding cats” style of FOSS.\n
            \n
            Wayland has been in development for 15 years and it’s still not ready – please, it’s not, and stomping our feet and claiming otherwise won’t make it so. Another 5 years will probably see it reach a more stable state.\n
            \n
            What do I mean by ready? Well the desktop stack [on Linux and *NIX] is extremely complex. Whenever you’re dealing with something extremely complex in software, over the years, you amass a large amount of solutions that solve real world problems. That’s what I call “ready”. Most of those solutions will be dealing with quirks and use cases which do not affect everybody equally, but they’re each crucial in their own way to a varying slice of the userbase.\n
            \n
            Whenever you rewrite something from scratch you throw away the bulk of those quirks. It’s a common fallacy for developers to look at the shiny new thing and think that it’s better. In reality it’s worthless without the quirks, and accumulating those quirks all over again takes a long time. X has been accumulating them for 40 years. Wayland is barely scratching the surface.\n
            \n
            The fact the protocol places and splits the burden over the various DE and WM teams will NOT help. We will need libraries that solve the same problem once instead of over and over, and most DE/WM will come to depend on those libraries. The end result will be eerily similar to X. Ironically, by the time Wayland will be done it will have spent a comparable time in development to X, and will have accumulated the same amount of baggage that people dislike about X.\n
            \n
            > What percentage of the Linux Desktop universe are you expecting will still be using X at the end of 2025?\n
            \n
            More or less the same that’s using X right now. GNOME, KDE and the various distros will get a bloody nose trying to force Wayland through but if that’s the only way they learn, so be it.\n
            \n
            The Steam Deck actually has one of the few use cases where Wayland actually makes sense, it’s a turnkey, highly controlled stack (both software and hardware) where users don’t have any reasons to care about what’s under the hood. I expect them to switch ASAP.\n
            \n
            Another place where Wayland can be used straightaway is the desktop graphical login screen (which is the original reason it was created for anyway). It’s a singular application with reduced requirements and simplistic interactions.
            """
          +lang: "en"
          +isAdult: false
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            "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
            "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
            "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
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      I’m glad Wayland solves problems for you, but it creates them for others.\n
      \n
      Imagine being forced to go the other way. Could you be coerced into going back to Xorg? What would you do if a distro attempted to do that to you?
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          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
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      +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
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      +body: """
        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
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        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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            > You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
            \n
            All I see is a rift in the community over one side pushing software that’s beta-quality at best, and acting very arrogant and dismissive towards real adoption impediments.\n
            \n
            Which is par for the course for Linux, naturally, but “it’s happening” is wishful thinking at this stage. At this rate and with this attitude it will take at least another 5 years.\n
            \n
            Wayland’s worst enemy is its own fans.
            """
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            “Linux” is not an entity with well defined goals, it’s a community that mostly does whatever it wants. That has the fortunate side effect of producing labors of love in software, that prove really useful in the real world. But it also ignores things like user experience, which affect things like the desktop the most.\n
            \n
            On Linux the user is a second-class citizen, because worth in the community is determined by how much a person contributes (in code, testing, artwork, documentation etc.)\n
            \n
            The Linux mindset is best expressed by a quote from Simon Travaglia (which I paraphrase because I don’t remember it verbatim): “We’re tasked with the well-being of the servers, not the users. They’re lucky we even let them log in since users technically *upset* the smooth operation of the servers.”
            """
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          +body: """
            You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
            \n
            Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
            """
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            > but why should AMD, Intel and NVIDIA care about Linux desktop\n
            \n
            They care because it’s free testing for their more lucrative Linux-based products. We’re their lab rats.
            """
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          +body: """
            They aren’t facts, again, they’re wishful thinking. I’m a long time contributor and developer and I can assure you that with things as complex as X and Wayland things would move slowly even if everybody was of the same mind, let alone in the “herding cats” style of FOSS.\n
            \n
            Wayland has been in development for 15 years and it’s still not ready – please, it’s not, and stomping our feet and claiming otherwise won’t make it so. Another 5 years will probably see it reach a more stable state.\n
            \n
            What do I mean by ready? Well the desktop stack [on Linux and *NIX] is extremely complex. Whenever you’re dealing with something extremely complex in software, over the years, you amass a large amount of solutions that solve real world problems. That’s what I call “ready”. Most of those solutions will be dealing with quirks and use cases which do not affect everybody equally, but they’re each crucial in their own way to a varying slice of the userbase.\n
            \n
            Whenever you rewrite something from scratch you throw away the bulk of those quirks. It’s a common fallacy for developers to look at the shiny new thing and think that it’s better. In reality it’s worthless without the quirks, and accumulating those quirks all over again takes a long time. X has been accumulating them for 40 years. Wayland is barely scratching the surface.\n
            \n
            The fact the protocol places and splits the burden over the various DE and WM teams will NOT help. We will need libraries that solve the same problem once instead of over and over, and most DE/WM will come to depend on those libraries. The end result will be eerily similar to X. Ironically, by the time Wayland will be done it will have spent a comparable time in development to X, and will have accumulated the same amount of baggage that people dislike about X.\n
            \n
            > What percentage of the Linux Desktop universe are you expecting will still be using X at the end of 2025?\n
            \n
            More or less the same that’s using X right now. GNOME, KDE and the various distros will get a bloody nose trying to force Wayland through but if that’s the only way they learn, so be it.\n
            \n
            The Steam Deck actually has one of the few use cases where Wayland actually makes sense, it’s a turnkey, highly controlled stack (both software and hardware) where users don’t have any reasons to care about what’s under the hood. I expect them to switch ASAP.\n
            \n
            Another place where Wayland can be used straightaway is the desktop graphical login screen (which is the original reason it was created for anyway). It’s a singular application with reduced requirements and simplistic interactions.
            """
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      I’m glad Wayland solves problems for you, but it creates them for others.\n
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      Imagine being forced to go the other way. Could you be coerced into going back to Xorg? What would you do if a distro attempted to do that to you?
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          \n
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          \n
          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
          - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
          \n
          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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      +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
      +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
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      +body: """
        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
        \n
        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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        date: 2024-02-17 22:16:50.0 +01:00
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        5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2086
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          +body: """
            > You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
            \n
            All I see is a rift in the community over one side pushing software that’s beta-quality at best, and acting very arrogant and dismissive towards real adoption impediments.\n
            \n
            Which is par for the course for Linux, naturally, but “it’s happening” is wishful thinking at this stage. At this rate and with this attitude it will take at least another 5 years.\n
            \n
            Wayland’s worst enemy is its own fans.
            """
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            "@theshatterstone54@feddit.uk"
            "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
            "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
            "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
            "@LeFantome@programming.dev"
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            date: 2023-11-19 22:48:05.0 +01:00
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          +body: """
            “Linux” is not an entity with well defined goals, it’s a community that mostly does whatever it wants. That has the fortunate side effect of producing labors of love in software, that prove really useful in the real world. But it also ignores things like user experience, which affect things like the desktop the most.\n
            \n
            On Linux the user is a second-class citizen, because worth in the community is determined by how much a person contributes (in code, testing, artwork, documentation etc.)\n
            \n
            The Linux mindset is best expressed by a quote from Simon Travaglia (which I paraphrase because I don’t remember it verbatim): “We’re tasked with the well-being of the servers, not the users. They’re lucky we even let them log in since users technically *upset* the smooth operation of the servers.”
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            "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
            "@michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
            "@LeFantome@programming.dev"
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        3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2012}
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          +body: """
            You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
            \n
            Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
            """
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            date: 2023-11-19 03:09:37.0 +01:00
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        1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2312
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          +body: """
            > but why should AMD, Intel and NVIDIA care about Linux desktop\n
            \n
            They care because it’s free testing for their more lucrative Linux-based products. We’re their lab rats.
            """
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            "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
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            "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
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        }
        0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2325
          +user: App\Entity\User {#259}
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          +body: """
            They aren’t facts, again, they’re wishful thinking. I’m a long time contributor and developer and I can assure you that with things as complex as X and Wayland things would move slowly even if everybody was of the same mind, let alone in the “herding cats” style of FOSS.\n
            \n
            Wayland has been in development for 15 years and it’s still not ready – please, it’s not, and stomping our feet and claiming otherwise won’t make it so. Another 5 years will probably see it reach a more stable state.\n
            \n
            What do I mean by ready? Well the desktop stack [on Linux and *NIX] is extremely complex. Whenever you’re dealing with something extremely complex in software, over the years, you amass a large amount of solutions that solve real world problems. That’s what I call “ready”. Most of those solutions will be dealing with quirks and use cases which do not affect everybody equally, but they’re each crucial in their own way to a varying slice of the userbase.\n
            \n
            Whenever you rewrite something from scratch you throw away the bulk of those quirks. It’s a common fallacy for developers to look at the shiny new thing and think that it’s better. In reality it’s worthless without the quirks, and accumulating those quirks all over again takes a long time. X has been accumulating them for 40 years. Wayland is barely scratching the surface.\n
            \n
            The fact the protocol places and splits the burden over the various DE and WM teams will NOT help. We will need libraries that solve the same problem once instead of over and over, and most DE/WM will come to depend on those libraries. The end result will be eerily similar to X. Ironically, by the time Wayland will be done it will have spent a comparable time in development to X, and will have accumulated the same amount of baggage that people dislike about X.\n
            \n
            > What percentage of the Linux Desktop universe are you expecting will still be using X at the end of 2025?\n
            \n
            More or less the same that’s using X right now. GNOME, KDE and the various distros will get a bloody nose trying to force Wayland through but if that’s the only way they learn, so be it.\n
            \n
            The Steam Deck actually has one of the few use cases where Wayland actually makes sense, it’s a turnkey, highly controlled stack (both software and hardware) where users don’t have any reasons to care about what’s under the hood. I expect them to switch ASAP.\n
            \n
            Another place where Wayland can be used straightaway is the desktop graphical login screen (which is the original reason it was created for anyway). It’s a singular application with reduced requirements and simplistic interactions.
            """
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        date: 2023-11-20 18:44:08.0 +01:00
      }
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       …2
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    +body: """
      I’m glad Wayland solves problems for you, but it creates them for others.\n
      \n
      Imagine being forced to go the other way. Could you be coerced into going back to Xorg? What would you do if a distro attempted to do that to you?
      """
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      +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
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        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
        \n
        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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          +body: """
            > You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
            \n
            All I see is a rift in the community over one side pushing software that’s beta-quality at best, and acting very arrogant and dismissive towards real adoption impediments.\n
            \n
            Which is par for the course for Linux, naturally, but “it’s happening” is wishful thinking at this stage. At this rate and with this attitude it will take at least another 5 years.\n
            \n
            Wayland’s worst enemy is its own fans.
            """
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          -id: 141068
          -bodyTs: "'5':74 'act':33 'adopt':40 'anoth':73 'arrog':35 'attitud':67 'best':31 'beta':28 'beta-qu':27 'communiti':19 'cours':47 'dismiss':37 'enemi':79 'fan':83 'forgot':2 'happen':10,54 'impedi':41 'least':72 'linux':49 'natur':50 'one':21 'par':44 'part':4 'push':23 'qualiti':29 'rate':63 'real':39 'rift':16 'see':13 'side':22 'softwar':24 'stage':60 'take':70 'think':57 'toward':38 'wayland':76 'wish':56 'worst':78 'year':75"
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          +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700430485 {#2091
            date: 2023-11-19 22:48:05.0 +01:00
          }
          +"title": 141068
        }
        4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2083
          +user: App\Entity\User {#259}
          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1361 …2}
          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …2}
          +image: null
          +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2082 …}
          +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1403 …}
          +body: """
            “Linux” is not an entity with well defined goals, it’s a community that mostly does whatever it wants. That has the fortunate side effect of producing labors of love in software, that prove really useful in the real world. But it also ignores things like user experience, which affect things like the desktop the most.\n
            \n
            On Linux the user is a second-class citizen, because worth in the community is determined by how much a person contributes (in code, testing, artwork, documentation etc.)\n
            \n
            The Linux mindset is best expressed by a quote from Simon Travaglia (which I paraphrase because I don’t remember it verbatim): “We’re tasked with the well-being of the servers, not the users. They’re lucky we even let them log in since users technically *upset* the smooth operation of the servers.”
            """
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            date: 2023-11-19 22:36:06.0 +01:00
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            "@theshatterstone54@feddit.uk"
            "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
            "@michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
            "@LeFantome@programming.dev"
          ]
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          -id: 141024
          -bodyTs: "'affect':50 'also':43 'artwork':83 'best':90 'citizen':66 'class':65 'code':81 'communiti':13,71 'contribut':79 'defin':8 'desktop':54 'determin':73 'document':84 'effect':25 'entiti':5 'etc':85 'even':126 'experi':48 'express':91 'fortun':23 'goal':9 'ignor':44 'labor':28 'let':127 'like':46,52 'linux':1,58,87 'log':129 'love':30 'lucki':124 'mindset':88 'most':15 'much':76 'oper':137 'paraphras':100 'person':78 'produc':27 'prove':34 'quot':94 're':109,123 'real':39 'realli':35 'rememb':105 'second':64 'second-class':63 'server':118,140 'side':24 'simon':96 'sinc':131 'smooth':136 'softwar':32 'task':110 'technic':133 'test':82 'thing':45,51 'travaglia':97 'upset':134 'use':36 'user':47,60,121,132 'verbatim':107 'want':19 'well':7,114 'well-b':113 'whatev':17 'world':40 'worth':68"
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          +apId: "https://feddit.nl/comment/4715830"
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          +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700429766 {#2097
            date: 2023-11-19 22:36:06.0 +01:00
          }
          +"title": 141024
        }
        3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2012}
        2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1363
          +user: App\Entity\User {#259}
          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1361 …2}
          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …2}
          +image: null
          +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1362 …}
          +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1403 …}
          +body: """
            You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
            \n
            Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
            """
          +lang: "en"
          +isAdult: false
          +favouriteCount: 2
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            date: 2023-11-19 03:09:37.0 +01:00
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            "@theshatterstone54@feddit.uk"
            "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
            "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
          ]
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          -id: 138758
          -bodyTs: "'adopt':44 'better':36 'come':40 'everyth':16 'featur':14 'fine':18 'forc':43 'forgot':2 'happen':28 'let':26 'll':39 'make':47 'natur':29 'need':9 'part':4 'peopl':23,48 'push':22 'readi':34 'reduc':13 'resent':49 'stop':21 'toward':24 'tri':41 'wayland':10,25 'work':17 'xorg':20"
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          +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700359777 {#1404
            date: 2023-11-19 03:09:37.0 +01:00
          }
          +"title": 138758
        }
        1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2312
          +user: App\Entity\User {#259}
          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1361 …2}
          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …2}
          +image: null
          +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2310 …}
          +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1403 …}
          +body: """
            > but why should AMD, Intel and NVIDIA care about Linux desktop\n
            \n
            They care because it’s free testing for their more lucrative Linux-based products. We’re their lab rats.
            """
          +lang: "en"
          +isAdult: false
          +favouriteCount: 1
          +score: 0
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            date: 2023-11-20 18:36:50.0 +01:00
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            "@theshatterstone54@feddit.uk"
            "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
            "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
            "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
          ]
          +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2307 …}
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          +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2318 …}
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          -id: 143393
          -bodyTs: "'amd':4 'base':25 'care':8,13 'desktop':11 'free':17 'intel':5 'lab':30 'linux':10,24 'linux-bas':23 'lucrat':22 'nvidia':7 'product':26 'rat':31 're':28 'test':18"
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            date: 2023-11-20 18:36:50.0 +01:00
          }
          +"title": 143393
        }
        0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2325
          +user: App\Entity\User {#259}
          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1361 …2}
          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …2}
          +image: null
          +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2327 …}
          +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1403 …}
          +body: """
            They aren’t facts, again, they’re wishful thinking. I’m a long time contributor and developer and I can assure you that with things as complex as X and Wayland things would move slowly even if everybody was of the same mind, let alone in the “herding cats” style of FOSS.\n
            \n
            Wayland has been in development for 15 years and it’s still not ready – please, it’s not, and stomping our feet and claiming otherwise won’t make it so. Another 5 years will probably see it reach a more stable state.\n
            \n
            What do I mean by ready? Well the desktop stack [on Linux and *NIX] is extremely complex. Whenever you’re dealing with something extremely complex in software, over the years, you amass a large amount of solutions that solve real world problems. That’s what I call “ready”. Most of those solutions will be dealing with quirks and use cases which do not affect everybody equally, but they’re each crucial in their own way to a varying slice of the userbase.\n
            \n
            Whenever you rewrite something from scratch you throw away the bulk of those quirks. It’s a common fallacy for developers to look at the shiny new thing and think that it’s better. In reality it’s worthless without the quirks, and accumulating those quirks all over again takes a long time. X has been accumulating them for 40 years. Wayland is barely scratching the surface.\n
            \n
            The fact the protocol places and splits the burden over the various DE and WM teams will NOT help. We will need libraries that solve the same problem once instead of over and over, and most DE/WM will come to depend on those libraries. The end result will be eerily similar to X. Ironically, by the time Wayland will be done it will have spent a comparable time in development to X, and will have accumulated the same amount of baggage that people dislike about X.\n
            \n
            > What percentage of the Linux Desktop universe are you expecting will still be using X at the end of 2025?\n
            \n
            More or less the same that’s using X right now. GNOME, KDE and the various distros will get a bloody nose trying to force Wayland through but if that’s the only way they learn, so be it.\n
            \n
            The Steam Deck actually has one of the few use cases where Wayland actually makes sense, it’s a turnkey, highly controlled stack (both software and hardware) where users don’t have any reasons to care about what’s under the hood. I expect them to switch ASAP.\n
            \n
            Another place where Wayland can be used straightaway is the desktop graphical login screen (which is the original reason it was created for anyway). It’s a singular application with reduced requirements and simplistic interactions.
            """
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            "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
            "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
            "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
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      I’m glad Wayland solves problems for you, but it creates them for others.\n
      \n
      Imagine being forced to go the other way. Could you be coerced into going back to Xorg? What would you do if a distro attempted to do that to you?
      """
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          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
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          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
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          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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      +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
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      +body: """
        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
        \n
        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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            > You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
            \n
            All I see is a rift in the community over one side pushing software that’s beta-quality at best, and acting very arrogant and dismissive towards real adoption impediments.\n
            \n
            Which is par for the course for Linux, naturally, but “it’s happening” is wishful thinking at this stage. At this rate and with this attitude it will take at least another 5 years.\n
            \n
            Wayland’s worst enemy is its own fans.
            """
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            “Linux” is not an entity with well defined goals, it’s a community that mostly does whatever it wants. That has the fortunate side effect of producing labors of love in software, that prove really useful in the real world. But it also ignores things like user experience, which affect things like the desktop the most.\n
            \n
            On Linux the user is a second-class citizen, because worth in the community is determined by how much a person contributes (in code, testing, artwork, documentation etc.)\n
            \n
            The Linux mindset is best expressed by a quote from Simon Travaglia (which I paraphrase because I don’t remember it verbatim): “We’re tasked with the well-being of the servers, not the users. They’re lucky we even let them log in since users technically *upset* the smooth operation of the servers.”
            """
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          +body: """
            I’m glad Wayland solves problems for you, but it creates them for others.\n
            \n
            Imagine being forced to go the other way. Could you be coerced into going back to Xorg? What would you do if a distro attempted to do that to you?
            """
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            > but why should AMD, Intel and NVIDIA care about Linux desktop\n
            \n
            They care because it’s free testing for their more lucrative Linux-based products. We’re their lab rats.
            """
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          +body: """
            They aren’t facts, again, they’re wishful thinking. I’m a long time contributor and developer and I can assure you that with things as complex as X and Wayland things would move slowly even if everybody was of the same mind, let alone in the “herding cats” style of FOSS.\n
            \n
            Wayland has been in development for 15 years and it’s still not ready – please, it’s not, and stomping our feet and claiming otherwise won’t make it so. Another 5 years will probably see it reach a more stable state.\n
            \n
            What do I mean by ready? Well the desktop stack [on Linux and *NIX] is extremely complex. Whenever you’re dealing with something extremely complex in software, over the years, you amass a large amount of solutions that solve real world problems. That’s what I call “ready”. Most of those solutions will be dealing with quirks and use cases which do not affect everybody equally, but they’re each crucial in their own way to a varying slice of the userbase.\n
            \n
            Whenever you rewrite something from scratch you throw away the bulk of those quirks. It’s a common fallacy for developers to look at the shiny new thing and think that it’s better. In reality it’s worthless without the quirks, and accumulating those quirks all over again takes a long time. X has been accumulating them for 40 years. Wayland is barely scratching the surface.\n
            \n
            The fact the protocol places and splits the burden over the various DE and WM teams will NOT help. We will need libraries that solve the same problem once instead of over and over, and most DE/WM will come to depend on those libraries. The end result will be eerily similar to X. Ironically, by the time Wayland will be done it will have spent a comparable time in development to X, and will have accumulated the same amount of baggage that people dislike about X.\n
            \n
            > What percentage of the Linux Desktop universe are you expecting will still be using X at the end of 2025?\n
            \n
            More or less the same that’s using X right now. GNOME, KDE and the various distros will get a bloody nose trying to force Wayland through but if that’s the only way they learn, so be it.\n
            \n
            The Steam Deck actually has one of the few use cases where Wayland actually makes sense, it’s a turnkey, highly controlled stack (both software and hardware) where users don’t have any reasons to care about what’s under the hood. I expect them to switch ASAP.\n
            \n
            Another place where Wayland can be used straightaway is the desktop graphical login screen (which is the original reason it was created for anyway). It’s a singular application with reduced requirements and simplistic interactions.
            """
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      You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
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      Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
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          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
          - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
          \n
          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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      +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
      +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
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      +body: """
        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
        \n
        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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        5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2086
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          +body: """
            > You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
            \n
            All I see is a rift in the community over one side pushing software that’s beta-quality at best, and acting very arrogant and dismissive towards real adoption impediments.\n
            \n
            Which is par for the course for Linux, naturally, but “it’s happening” is wishful thinking at this stage. At this rate and with this attitude it will take at least another 5 years.\n
            \n
            Wayland’s worst enemy is its own fans.
            """
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            “Linux” is not an entity with well defined goals, it’s a community that mostly does whatever it wants. That has the fortunate side effect of producing labors of love in software, that prove really useful in the real world. But it also ignores things like user experience, which affect things like the desktop the most.\n
            \n
            On Linux the user is a second-class citizen, because worth in the community is determined by how much a person contributes (in code, testing, artwork, documentation etc.)\n
            \n
            The Linux mindset is best expressed by a quote from Simon Travaglia (which I paraphrase because I don’t remember it verbatim): “We’re tasked with the well-being of the servers, not the users. They’re lucky we even let them log in since users technically *upset* the smooth operation of the servers.”
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            "@michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
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          +body: """
            I’m glad Wayland solves problems for you, but it creates them for others.\n
            \n
            Imagine being forced to go the other way. Could you be coerced into going back to Xorg? What would you do if a distro attempted to do that to you?
            """
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            date: 2023-11-19 22:21:07.0 +01:00
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          +"title": 140989
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        2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1363}
        1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2312
          +user: App\Entity\User {#259}
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          +body: """
            > but why should AMD, Intel and NVIDIA care about Linux desktop\n
            \n
            They care because it’s free testing for their more lucrative Linux-based products. We’re their lab rats.
            """
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            "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
            "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
            "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
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          +"title": 143393
        }
        0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2325
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          +body: """
            They aren’t facts, again, they’re wishful thinking. I’m a long time contributor and developer and I can assure you that with things as complex as X and Wayland things would move slowly even if everybody was of the same mind, let alone in the “herding cats” style of FOSS.\n
            \n
            Wayland has been in development for 15 years and it’s still not ready – please, it’s not, and stomping our feet and claiming otherwise won’t make it so. Another 5 years will probably see it reach a more stable state.\n
            \n
            What do I mean by ready? Well the desktop stack [on Linux and *NIX] is extremely complex. Whenever you’re dealing with something extremely complex in software, over the years, you amass a large amount of solutions that solve real world problems. That’s what I call “ready”. Most of those solutions will be dealing with quirks and use cases which do not affect everybody equally, but they’re each crucial in their own way to a varying slice of the userbase.\n
            \n
            Whenever you rewrite something from scratch you throw away the bulk of those quirks. It’s a common fallacy for developers to look at the shiny new thing and think that it’s better. In reality it’s worthless without the quirks, and accumulating those quirks all over again takes a long time. X has been accumulating them for 40 years. Wayland is barely scratching the surface.\n
            \n
            The fact the protocol places and splits the burden over the various DE and WM teams will NOT help. We will need libraries that solve the same problem once instead of over and over, and most DE/WM will come to depend on those libraries. The end result will be eerily similar to X. Ironically, by the time Wayland will be done it will have spent a comparable time in development to X, and will have accumulated the same amount of baggage that people dislike about X.\n
            \n
            > What percentage of the Linux Desktop universe are you expecting will still be using X at the end of 2025?\n
            \n
            More or less the same that’s using X right now. GNOME, KDE and the various distros will get a bloody nose trying to force Wayland through but if that’s the only way they learn, so be it.\n
            \n
            The Steam Deck actually has one of the few use cases where Wayland actually makes sense, it’s a turnkey, highly controlled stack (both software and hardware) where users don’t have any reasons to care about what’s under the hood. I expect them to switch ASAP.\n
            \n
            Another place where Wayland can be used straightaway is the desktop graphical login screen (which is the original reason it was created for anyway). It’s a singular application with reduced requirements and simplistic interactions.
            """
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        date: 2023-11-20 18:44:08.0 +01:00
      }
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       …2
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    +body: """
      You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
      \n
      Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
      """
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700359777 {#1404
      date: 2023-11-19 03:09:37.0 +01:00
    }
    +"title": 138758
  }
  +showMagazineName: false
  +showEntryTitle: false
  +showNested: false
  +level: 1
  +canSeeTrash: false
  +dateAsUrl: true
  -requestStack: Symfony\Component\HttpFoundation\RequestStack {#1328 …}
  -authorizationChecker: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\AuthorizationChecker {#931 …}
}
user_inline App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent 12.0 MiB 0.17 ms
Input props
[
  "user" => App\Entity\User {#259
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +username: "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1727573233 {#267
      date: 2024-09-29 03:27:13.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: true
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: false
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
    +isVerified: false
    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#231 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#161 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#134 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#104 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#77 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#92 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1816 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1851 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1868 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1594 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1602 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1768 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1862 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1836 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1846 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1831 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2410 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1955 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2399 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1911 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1914 …}
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    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1915 …}
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    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1950 …}
    +apId: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
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    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://feddit.nl/inbox"
    +apDomain: "feddit.nl"
    +apPreferredUsername: "lemmyvore"
    +apDiscoverable: true
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    +privateKey: null
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    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1727039733 {#272
      date: 2024-09-22 23:15:33.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687169920 {#269
      date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  "showAvatar" => false
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent {#7237
  +user: App\Entity\User {#259
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +username: "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1727573233 {#267
      date: 2024-09-29 03:27:13.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
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    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
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    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: true
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: false
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
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    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#231 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#161 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#134 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#104 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#77 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#92 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1816 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1851 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1868 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1594 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1602 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1768 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1862 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1836 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1846 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1831 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2410 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1955 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2399 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1911 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1914 …}
    +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1884 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1915 …}
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    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1950 …}
    +apId: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +apProfileId: "https://feddit.nl/u/lemmyvore"
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    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://feddit.nl/inbox"
    +apDomain: "feddit.nl"
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    +apDiscoverable: true
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    +privateKey: null
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    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1727039733 {#272
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    +apDeletedAt: null
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    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687169920 {#269
      date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  +showAvatar: false
}
date App\Twig\Components\DateComponent 12.0 MiB 0.15 ms
Input props
[
  "date" => DateTimeImmutable @1700359777 {#1404
    date: 2023-11-19 03:09:37.0 +01:00
  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateComponent {#7293
  +date: DateTimeImmutable @1700359777 {#1404
    date: 2023-11-19 03:09:37.0 +01:00
  }
}
date_edited App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent 12.0 MiB 0.09 ms
Input props
[
  "createdAt" => DateTimeImmutable @1700359777 {#1404
    date: 2023-11-19 03:09:37.0 +01:00
  }
  "editedAt" => null
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent {#7347
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700359777 {#1404
    date: 2023-11-19 03:09:37.0 +01:00
  }
  +editedAt: null
}
user_avatar App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent 12.0 MiB 0.16 ms
Input props
[
  "user" => App\Entity\User {#259
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +username: "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1727573233 {#267
      date: 2024-09-29 03:27:13.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
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    +featuredMagazines: null
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    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: false
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
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    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#231 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#161 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#134 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#104 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#77 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#92 …}
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    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1851 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1868 …}
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    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1602 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1768 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1862 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1836 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1846 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1831 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2410 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1955 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2399 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1911 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1914 …}
    +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1884 …}
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    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1950 …}
    +apId: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
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    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://feddit.nl/inbox"
    +apDomain: "feddit.nl"
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    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1727039733 {#272
      date: 2024-09-22 23:15:33.0 +02:00
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    +apDeletedAt: null
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    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687169920 {#269
      date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  "width" => 40
  "height" => 40
  "asLink" => true
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent {#7401
  +width: 40
  +height: 40
  +user: App\Entity\User {#259
    +avatar: null
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    +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
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    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1727573233 {#267
      date: 2024-09-29 03:27:13.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
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    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#231 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#161 …}
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    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#77 …}
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    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1836 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1846 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1831 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2410 …}
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    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2399 …}
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    -totpSecret: null
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    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1950 …}
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687169920 {#269
      date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  +asLink: true
}
vote App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent 12.0 MiB 2.61 ms
Input props
[
  "subject" => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1363
    +user: App\Entity\User {#259
      +avatar: null
      +cover: null
      +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
      +username: "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
      +roles: []
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      +homepage: "front"
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      +lastActive: DateTime @1727573233 {#267
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      }
      +markedForDeletionAt: null
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      +isBot: false
      +spamProtection: true
      +customCss: null
      +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
      +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
      +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
      +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#231 …}
      +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
      +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#161 …}
      +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#134 …}
      +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#104 …}
      +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#77 …}
      +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#92 …}
      +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1816 …}
      +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1851 …}
      +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1868 …}
      +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1594 …}
      +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1602 …}
      +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1768 …}
      +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1862 …}
      +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1836 …}
      +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1846 …}
      +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1831 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2410 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1955 …}
      +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2399 …}
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      +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1914 …}
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      -totpSecret: null
      -totpBackupCodes: []
      -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1950 …}
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      +apDomain: "feddit.nl"
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      +privateKey: null
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      +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1727039733 {#272
        date: 2024-09-22 23:15:33.0 +02:00
      }
      +apDeletedAt: null
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      +visibility: "visible             "
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687169920 {#269
        date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
      }
    }
    +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1361
      +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2999
        +avatar: null
        +cover: null
        +email: "theshatterstone54@feddit.uk"
        +username: "@theshatterstone54@feddit.uk"
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        +homepage: "front"
        +about: null
        +lastActive: DateTime @1726513116 {#4713
          date: 2024-09-16 20:58:36.0 +02:00
        }
        +markedForDeletionAt: null
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        +spamProtection: true
        +customCss: null
        +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
        +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4716 …}
        +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4718 …}
        +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4720 …}
        +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4722 …}
        +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4724 …}
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          \n
          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
          - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
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          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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      +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
      +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
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      +body: """
        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
        \n
        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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        5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2086
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          +body: """
            > You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
            \n
            All I see is a rift in the community over one side pushing software that’s beta-quality at best, and acting very arrogant and dismissive towards real adoption impediments.\n
            \n
            Which is par for the course for Linux, naturally, but “it’s happening” is wishful thinking at this stage. At this rate and with this attitude it will take at least another 5 years.\n
            \n
            Wayland’s worst enemy is its own fans.
            """
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            “Linux” is not an entity with well defined goals, it’s a community that mostly does whatever it wants. That has the fortunate side effect of producing labors of love in software, that prove really useful in the real world. But it also ignores things like user experience, which affect things like the desktop the most.\n
            \n
            On Linux the user is a second-class citizen, because worth in the community is determined by how much a person contributes (in code, testing, artwork, documentation etc.)\n
            \n
            The Linux mindset is best expressed by a quote from Simon Travaglia (which I paraphrase because I don’t remember it verbatim): “We’re tasked with the well-being of the servers, not the users. They’re lucky we even let them log in since users technically *upset* the smooth operation of the servers.”
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          +body: """
            I’m glad Wayland solves problems for you, but it creates them for others.\n
            \n
            Imagine being forced to go the other way. Could you be coerced into going back to Xorg? What would you do if a distro attempted to do that to you?
            """
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          -bodyTs: "'attempt':39 'back':29 'coerc':26 'could':23 'creat':11 'distro':38 'forc':17 'glad':3 'go':19,28 'imagin':15 'm':2 'other':14 'problem':6 'solv':5 'way':22 'wayland':4 'would':33 'xorg':31"
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            date: 2023-11-19 22:21:07.0 +01:00
          }
          +"title": 140989
        }
        2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1363}
        1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2312
          +user: App\Entity\User {#259}
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          +body: """
            > but why should AMD, Intel and NVIDIA care about Linux desktop\n
            \n
            They care because it’s free testing for their more lucrative Linux-based products. We’re their lab rats.
            """
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            "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
            "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
            "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
          ]
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            date: 2023-11-20 18:36:50.0 +01:00
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          +"title": 143393
        }
        0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2325
          +user: App\Entity\User {#259}
          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1361 …2}
          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …2}
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          +body: """
            They aren’t facts, again, they’re wishful thinking. I’m a long time contributor and developer and I can assure you that with things as complex as X and Wayland things would move slowly even if everybody was of the same mind, let alone in the “herding cats” style of FOSS.\n
            \n
            Wayland has been in development for 15 years and it’s still not ready – please, it’s not, and stomping our feet and claiming otherwise won’t make it so. Another 5 years will probably see it reach a more stable state.\n
            \n
            What do I mean by ready? Well the desktop stack [on Linux and *NIX] is extremely complex. Whenever you’re dealing with something extremely complex in software, over the years, you amass a large amount of solutions that solve real world problems. That’s what I call “ready”. Most of those solutions will be dealing with quirks and use cases which do not affect everybody equally, but they’re each crucial in their own way to a varying slice of the userbase.\n
            \n
            Whenever you rewrite something from scratch you throw away the bulk of those quirks. It’s a common fallacy for developers to look at the shiny new thing and think that it’s better. In reality it’s worthless without the quirks, and accumulating those quirks all over again takes a long time. X has been accumulating them for 40 years. Wayland is barely scratching the surface.\n
            \n
            The fact the protocol places and splits the burden over the various DE and WM teams will NOT help. We will need libraries that solve the same problem once instead of over and over, and most DE/WM will come to depend on those libraries. The end result will be eerily similar to X. Ironically, by the time Wayland will be done it will have spent a comparable time in development to X, and will have accumulated the same amount of baggage that people dislike about X.\n
            \n
            > What percentage of the Linux Desktop universe are you expecting will still be using X at the end of 2025?\n
            \n
            More or less the same that’s using X right now. GNOME, KDE and the various distros will get a bloody nose trying to force Wayland through but if that’s the only way they learn, so be it.\n
            \n
            The Steam Deck actually has one of the few use cases where Wayland actually makes sense, it’s a turnkey, highly controlled stack (both software and hardware) where users don’t have any reasons to care about what’s under the hood. I expect them to switch ASAP.\n
            \n
            Another place where Wayland can be used straightaway is the desktop graphical login screen (which is the original reason it was created for anyway). It’s a singular application with reduced requirements and simplistic interactions.
            """
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        date: 2023-11-20 18:44:08.0 +01:00
      }
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       …2
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    +body: """
      You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
      \n
      Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
      """
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      +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
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        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
        \n
        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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          +body: """
            > You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
            \n
            All I see is a rift in the community over one side pushing software that’s beta-quality at best, and acting very arrogant and dismissive towards real adoption impediments.\n
            \n
            Which is par for the course for Linux, naturally, but “it’s happening” is wishful thinking at this stage. At this rate and with this attitude it will take at least another 5 years.\n
            \n
            Wayland’s worst enemy is its own fans.
            """
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          -id: 141068
          -bodyTs: "'5':74 'act':33 'adopt':40 'anoth':73 'arrog':35 'attitud':67 'best':31 'beta':28 'beta-qu':27 'communiti':19 'cours':47 'dismiss':37 'enemi':79 'fan':83 'forgot':2 'happen':10,54 'impedi':41 'least':72 'linux':49 'natur':50 'one':21 'par':44 'part':4 'push':23 'qualiti':29 'rate':63 'real':39 'rift':16 'see':13 'side':22 'softwar':24 'stage':60 'take':70 'think':57 'toward':38 'wayland':76 'wish':56 'worst':78 'year':75"
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            date: 2023-11-19 22:48:05.0 +01:00
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          +"title": 141068
        }
        4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2083
          +user: App\Entity\User {#259}
          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1361 …2}
          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …2}
          +image: null
          +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2082 …}
          +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1403 …}
          +body: """
            “Linux” is not an entity with well defined goals, it’s a community that mostly does whatever it wants. That has the fortunate side effect of producing labors of love in software, that prove really useful in the real world. But it also ignores things like user experience, which affect things like the desktop the most.\n
            \n
            On Linux the user is a second-class citizen, because worth in the community is determined by how much a person contributes (in code, testing, artwork, documentation etc.)\n
            \n
            The Linux mindset is best expressed by a quote from Simon Travaglia (which I paraphrase because I don’t remember it verbatim): “We’re tasked with the well-being of the servers, not the users. They’re lucky we even let them log in since users technically *upset* the smooth operation of the servers.”
            """
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            "@theshatterstone54@feddit.uk"
            "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
            "@michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
            "@LeFantome@programming.dev"
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          -bodyTs: "'affect':50 'also':43 'artwork':83 'best':90 'citizen':66 'class':65 'code':81 'communiti':13,71 'contribut':79 'defin':8 'desktop':54 'determin':73 'document':84 'effect':25 'entiti':5 'etc':85 'even':126 'experi':48 'express':91 'fortun':23 'goal':9 'ignor':44 'labor':28 'let':127 'like':46,52 'linux':1,58,87 'log':129 'love':30 'lucki':124 'mindset':88 'most':15 'much':76 'oper':137 'paraphras':100 'person':78 'produc':27 'prove':34 'quot':94 're':109,123 'real':39 'realli':35 'rememb':105 'second':64 'second-class':63 'server':118,140 'side':24 'simon':96 'sinc':131 'smooth':136 'softwar':32 'task':110 'technic':133 'test':82 'thing':45,51 'travaglia':97 'upset':134 'use':36 'user':47,60,121,132 'verbatim':107 'want':19 'well':7,114 'well-b':113 'whatev':17 'world':40 'worth':68"
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          +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700429766 {#2097
            date: 2023-11-19 22:36:06.0 +01:00
          }
          +"title": 141024
        }
        3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2012
          +user: App\Entity\User {#259}
          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1361 …2}
          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …2}
          +image: null
          +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2020 …}
          +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1403 …}
          +body: """
            I’m glad Wayland solves problems for you, but it creates them for others.\n
            \n
            Imagine being forced to go the other way. Could you be coerced into going back to Xorg? What would you do if a distro attempted to do that to you?
            """
          +lang: "en"
          +isAdult: false
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            date: 2023-11-19 22:21:07.0 +01:00
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            "@theshatterstone54@feddit.uk"
            "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
            "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
            "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
          ]
          +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2013 …}
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          -id: 140989
          -bodyTs: "'attempt':39 'back':29 'coerc':26 'could':23 'creat':11 'distro':38 'forc':17 'glad':3 'go':19,28 'imagin':15 'm':2 'other':14 'problem':6 'solv':5 'way':22 'wayland':4 'would':33 'xorg':31"
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          +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700428867 {#2029
            date: 2023-11-19 22:21:07.0 +01:00
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          +"title": 140989
        }
        2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1363}
        1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2312
          +user: App\Entity\User {#259}
          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1361 …2}
          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …2}
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          +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2310 …}
          +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1403 …}
          +body: """
            > but why should AMD, Intel and NVIDIA care about Linux desktop\n
            \n
            They care because it’s free testing for their more lucrative Linux-based products. We’re their lab rats.
            """
          +lang: "en"
          +isAdult: false
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            date: 2023-11-20 18:36:50.0 +01:00
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            "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
            "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
            "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
          ]
          +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2307 …}
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          -id: 143393
          -bodyTs: "'amd':4 'base':25 'care':8,13 'desktop':11 'free':17 'intel':5 'lab':30 'linux':10,24 'linux-bas':23 'lucrat':22 'nvidia':7 'product':26 'rat':31 're':28 'test':18"
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            date: 2023-11-20 18:36:50.0 +01:00
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          +"title": 143393
        }
        0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2325
          +user: App\Entity\User {#259}
          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1361 …2}
          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …2}
          +image: null
          +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2327 …}
          +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1403 …}
          +body: """
            They aren’t facts, again, they’re wishful thinking. I’m a long time contributor and developer and I can assure you that with things as complex as X and Wayland things would move slowly even if everybody was of the same mind, let alone in the “herding cats” style of FOSS.\n
            \n
            Wayland has been in development for 15 years and it’s still not ready – please, it’s not, and stomping our feet and claiming otherwise won’t make it so. Another 5 years will probably see it reach a more stable state.\n
            \n
            What do I mean by ready? Well the desktop stack [on Linux and *NIX] is extremely complex. Whenever you’re dealing with something extremely complex in software, over the years, you amass a large amount of solutions that solve real world problems. That’s what I call “ready”. Most of those solutions will be dealing with quirks and use cases which do not affect everybody equally, but they’re each crucial in their own way to a varying slice of the userbase.\n
            \n
            Whenever you rewrite something from scratch you throw away the bulk of those quirks. It’s a common fallacy for developers to look at the shiny new thing and think that it’s better. In reality it’s worthless without the quirks, and accumulating those quirks all over again takes a long time. X has been accumulating them for 40 years. Wayland is barely scratching the surface.\n
            \n
            The fact the protocol places and splits the burden over the various DE and WM teams will NOT help. We will need libraries that solve the same problem once instead of over and over, and most DE/WM will come to depend on those libraries. The end result will be eerily similar to X. Ironically, by the time Wayland will be done it will have spent a comparable time in development to X, and will have accumulated the same amount of baggage that people dislike about X.\n
            \n
            > What percentage of the Linux Desktop universe are you expecting will still be using X at the end of 2025?\n
            \n
            More or less the same that’s using X right now. GNOME, KDE and the various distros will get a bloody nose trying to force Wayland through but if that’s the only way they learn, so be it.\n
            \n
            The Steam Deck actually has one of the few use cases where Wayland actually makes sense, it’s a turnkey, highly controlled stack (both software and hardware) where users don’t have any reasons to care about what’s under the hood. I expect them to switch ASAP.\n
            \n
            Another place where Wayland can be used straightaway is the desktop graphical login screen (which is the original reason it was created for anyway). It’s a singular application with reduced requirements and simplistic interactions.
            """
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            "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
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      You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
      \n
      Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
      """
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          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
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          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
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          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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      +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
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      +body: """
        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
        \n
        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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            > You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
            \n
            All I see is a rift in the community over one side pushing software that’s beta-quality at best, and acting very arrogant and dismissive towards real adoption impediments.\n
            \n
            Which is par for the course for Linux, naturally, but “it’s happening” is wishful thinking at this stage. At this rate and with this attitude it will take at least another 5 years.\n
            \n
            Wayland’s worst enemy is its own fans.
            """
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            “Linux” is not an entity with well defined goals, it’s a community that mostly does whatever it wants. That has the fortunate side effect of producing labors of love in software, that prove really useful in the real world. But it also ignores things like user experience, which affect things like the desktop the most.\n
            \n
            On Linux the user is a second-class citizen, because worth in the community is determined by how much a person contributes (in code, testing, artwork, documentation etc.)\n
            \n
            The Linux mindset is best expressed by a quote from Simon Travaglia (which I paraphrase because I don’t remember it verbatim): “We’re tasked with the well-being of the servers, not the users. They’re lucky we even let them log in since users technically *upset* the smooth operation of the servers.”
            """
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          +body: """
            I’m glad Wayland solves problems for you, but it creates them for others.\n
            \n
            Imagine being forced to go the other way. Could you be coerced into going back to Xorg? What would you do if a distro attempted to do that to you?
            """
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            > but why should AMD, Intel and NVIDIA care about Linux desktop\n
            \n
            They care because it’s free testing for their more lucrative Linux-based products. We’re their lab rats.
            """
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          +body: """
            They aren’t facts, again, they’re wishful thinking. I’m a long time contributor and developer and I can assure you that with things as complex as X and Wayland things would move slowly even if everybody was of the same mind, let alone in the “herding cats” style of FOSS.\n
            \n
            Wayland has been in development for 15 years and it’s still not ready – please, it’s not, and stomping our feet and claiming otherwise won’t make it so. Another 5 years will probably see it reach a more stable state.\n
            \n
            What do I mean by ready? Well the desktop stack [on Linux and *NIX] is extremely complex. Whenever you’re dealing with something extremely complex in software, over the years, you amass a large amount of solutions that solve real world problems. That’s what I call “ready”. Most of those solutions will be dealing with quirks and use cases which do not affect everybody equally, but they’re each crucial in their own way to a varying slice of the userbase.\n
            \n
            Whenever you rewrite something from scratch you throw away the bulk of those quirks. It’s a common fallacy for developers to look at the shiny new thing and think that it’s better. In reality it’s worthless without the quirks, and accumulating those quirks all over again takes a long time. X has been accumulating them for 40 years. Wayland is barely scratching the surface.\n
            \n
            The fact the protocol places and splits the burden over the various DE and WM teams will NOT help. We will need libraries that solve the same problem once instead of over and over, and most DE/WM will come to depend on those libraries. The end result will be eerily similar to X. Ironically, by the time Wayland will be done it will have spent a comparable time in development to X, and will have accumulated the same amount of baggage that people dislike about X.\n
            \n
            > What percentage of the Linux Desktop universe are you expecting will still be using X at the end of 2025?\n
            \n
            More or less the same that’s using X right now. GNOME, KDE and the various distros will get a bloody nose trying to force Wayland through but if that’s the only way they learn, so be it.\n
            \n
            The Steam Deck actually has one of the few use cases where Wayland actually makes sense, it’s a turnkey, highly controlled stack (both software and hardware) where users don’t have any reasons to care about what’s under the hood. I expect them to switch ASAP.\n
            \n
            Another place where Wayland can be used straightaway is the desktop graphical login screen (which is the original reason it was created for anyway). It’s a singular application with reduced requirements and simplistic interactions.
            """
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      You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
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      Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
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          Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.\n
          \n
          ### Rules\n
          \n
          - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
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          \n
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          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
          """
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      +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
      +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
        \n
        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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        date: 2024-02-17 22:16:50.0 +01:00
      }
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        5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2086
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          +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1403 …}
          +body: """
            > You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
            \n
            All I see is a rift in the community over one side pushing software that’s beta-quality at best, and acting very arrogant and dismissive towards real adoption impediments.\n
            \n
            Which is par for the course for Linux, naturally, but “it’s happening” is wishful thinking at this stage. At this rate and with this attitude it will take at least another 5 years.\n
            \n
            Wayland’s worst enemy is its own fans.
            """
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            date: 2023-11-19 22:48:05.0 +01:00
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          +body: """
            “Linux” is not an entity with well defined goals, it’s a community that mostly does whatever it wants. That has the fortunate side effect of producing labors of love in software, that prove really useful in the real world. But it also ignores things like user experience, which affect things like the desktop the most.\n
            \n
            On Linux the user is a second-class citizen, because worth in the community is determined by how much a person contributes (in code, testing, artwork, documentation etc.)\n
            \n
            The Linux mindset is best expressed by a quote from Simon Travaglia (which I paraphrase because I don’t remember it verbatim): “We’re tasked with the well-being of the servers, not the users. They’re lucky we even let them log in since users technically *upset* the smooth operation of the servers.”
            """
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            "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
            "@michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
            "@LeFantome@programming.dev"
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        }
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          +body: """
            I’m glad Wayland solves problems for you, but it creates them for others.\n
            \n
            Imagine being forced to go the other way. Could you be coerced into going back to Xorg? What would you do if a distro attempted to do that to you?
            """
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        2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1363}
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          +body: """
            > but why should AMD, Intel and NVIDIA care about Linux desktop\n
            \n
            They care because it’s free testing for their more lucrative Linux-based products. We’re their lab rats.
            """
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            They aren’t facts, again, they’re wishful thinking. I’m a long time contributor and developer and I can assure you that with things as complex as X and Wayland things would move slowly even if everybody was of the same mind, let alone in the “herding cats” style of FOSS.\n
            \n
            Wayland has been in development for 15 years and it’s still not ready – please, it’s not, and stomping our feet and claiming otherwise won’t make it so. Another 5 years will probably see it reach a more stable state.\n
            \n
            What do I mean by ready? Well the desktop stack [on Linux and *NIX] is extremely complex. Whenever you’re dealing with something extremely complex in software, over the years, you amass a large amount of solutions that solve real world problems. That’s what I call “ready”. Most of those solutions will be dealing with quirks and use cases which do not affect everybody equally, but they’re each crucial in their own way to a varying slice of the userbase.\n
            \n
            Whenever you rewrite something from scratch you throw away the bulk of those quirks. It’s a common fallacy for developers to look at the shiny new thing and think that it’s better. In reality it’s worthless without the quirks, and accumulating those quirks all over again takes a long time. X has been accumulating them for 40 years. Wayland is barely scratching the surface.\n
            \n
            The fact the protocol places and splits the burden over the various DE and WM teams will NOT help. We will need libraries that solve the same problem once instead of over and over, and most DE/WM will come to depend on those libraries. The end result will be eerily similar to X. Ironically, by the time Wayland will be done it will have spent a comparable time in development to X, and will have accumulated the same amount of baggage that people dislike about X.\n
            \n
            > What percentage of the Linux Desktop universe are you expecting will still be using X at the end of 2025?\n
            \n
            More or less the same that’s using X right now. GNOME, KDE and the various distros will get a bloody nose trying to force Wayland through but if that’s the only way they learn, so be it.\n
            \n
            The Steam Deck actually has one of the few use cases where Wayland actually makes sense, it’s a turnkey, highly controlled stack (both software and hardware) where users don’t have any reasons to care about what’s under the hood. I expect them to switch ASAP.\n
            \n
            Another place where Wayland can be used straightaway is the desktop graphical login screen (which is the original reason it was created for anyway). It’s a singular application with reduced requirements and simplistic interactions.
            """
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      You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
      \n
      Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
      """
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          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
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          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
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          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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      +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
      +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
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      +body: """
        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
        \n
        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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        5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2086
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          +body: """
            > You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
            \n
            All I see is a rift in the community over one side pushing software that’s beta-quality at best, and acting very arrogant and dismissive towards real adoption impediments.\n
            \n
            Which is par for the course for Linux, naturally, but “it’s happening” is wishful thinking at this stage. At this rate and with this attitude it will take at least another 5 years.\n
            \n
            Wayland’s worst enemy is its own fans.
            """
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        4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2083
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          +body: """
            “Linux” is not an entity with well defined goals, it’s a community that mostly does whatever it wants. That has the fortunate side effect of producing labors of love in software, that prove really useful in the real world. But it also ignores things like user experience, which affect things like the desktop the most.\n
            \n
            On Linux the user is a second-class citizen, because worth in the community is determined by how much a person contributes (in code, testing, artwork, documentation etc.)\n
            \n
            The Linux mindset is best expressed by a quote from Simon Travaglia (which I paraphrase because I don’t remember it verbatim): “We’re tasked with the well-being of the servers, not the users. They’re lucky we even let them log in since users technically *upset* the smooth operation of the servers.”
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            date: 2023-11-19 22:36:06.0 +01:00
          }
          +"title": 141024
        }
        3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2012
          +user: App\Entity\User {#259}
          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1361 …2}
          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …2}
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          +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1403 …}
          +body: """
            I’m glad Wayland solves problems for you, but it creates them for others.\n
            \n
            Imagine being forced to go the other way. Could you be coerced into going back to Xorg? What would you do if a distro attempted to do that to you?
            """
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            date: 2023-11-19 22:21:07.0 +01:00
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          -id: 140989
          -bodyTs: "'attempt':39 'back':29 'coerc':26 'could':23 'creat':11 'distro':38 'forc':17 'glad':3 'go':19,28 'imagin':15 'm':2 'other':14 'problem':6 'solv':5 'way':22 'wayland':4 'would':33 'xorg':31"
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            date: 2023-11-19 22:21:07.0 +01:00
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          +"title": 140989
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        2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1363
          +user: App\Entity\User {#259}
          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1361 …2}
          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …2}
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          +body: """
            You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
            \n
            Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
            """
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            date: 2023-11-19 03:09:37.0 +01:00
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          +"title": 138758
        }
        1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2312}
        0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2325
          +user: App\Entity\User {#259}
          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1361 …2}
          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …2}
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          +body: """
            They aren’t facts, again, they’re wishful thinking. I’m a long time contributor and developer and I can assure you that with things as complex as X and Wayland things would move slowly even if everybody was of the same mind, let alone in the “herding cats” style of FOSS.\n
            \n
            Wayland has been in development for 15 years and it’s still not ready – please, it’s not, and stomping our feet and claiming otherwise won’t make it so. Another 5 years will probably see it reach a more stable state.\n
            \n
            What do I mean by ready? Well the desktop stack [on Linux and *NIX] is extremely complex. Whenever you’re dealing with something extremely complex in software, over the years, you amass a large amount of solutions that solve real world problems. That’s what I call “ready”. Most of those solutions will be dealing with quirks and use cases which do not affect everybody equally, but they’re each crucial in their own way to a varying slice of the userbase.\n
            \n
            Whenever you rewrite something from scratch you throw away the bulk of those quirks. It’s a common fallacy for developers to look at the shiny new thing and think that it’s better. In reality it’s worthless without the quirks, and accumulating those quirks all over again takes a long time. X has been accumulating them for 40 years. Wayland is barely scratching the surface.\n
            \n
            The fact the protocol places and splits the burden over the various DE and WM teams will NOT help. We will need libraries that solve the same problem once instead of over and over, and most DE/WM will come to depend on those libraries. The end result will be eerily similar to X. Ironically, by the time Wayland will be done it will have spent a comparable time in development to X, and will have accumulated the same amount of baggage that people dislike about X.\n
            \n
            > What percentage of the Linux Desktop universe are you expecting will still be using X at the end of 2025?\n
            \n
            More or less the same that’s using X right now. GNOME, KDE and the various distros will get a bloody nose trying to force Wayland through but if that’s the only way they learn, so be it.\n
            \n
            The Steam Deck actually has one of the few use cases where Wayland actually makes sense, it’s a turnkey, highly controlled stack (both software and hardware) where users don’t have any reasons to care about what’s under the hood. I expect them to switch ASAP.\n
            \n
            Another place where Wayland can be used straightaway is the desktop graphical login screen (which is the original reason it was created for anyway). It’s a singular application with reduced requirements and simplistic interactions.
            """
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      > but why should AMD, Intel and NVIDIA care about Linux desktop\n
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      They care because it’s free testing for their more lucrative Linux-based products. We’re their lab rats.
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        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
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        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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        5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2086
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            > You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
            \n
            All I see is a rift in the community over one side pushing software that’s beta-quality at best, and acting very arrogant and dismissive towards real adoption impediments.\n
            \n
            Which is par for the course for Linux, naturally, but “it’s happening” is wishful thinking at this stage. At this rate and with this attitude it will take at least another 5 years.\n
            \n
            Wayland’s worst enemy is its own fans.
            """
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            “Linux” is not an entity with well defined goals, it’s a community that mostly does whatever it wants. That has the fortunate side effect of producing labors of love in software, that prove really useful in the real world. But it also ignores things like user experience, which affect things like the desktop the most.\n
            \n
            On Linux the user is a second-class citizen, because worth in the community is determined by how much a person contributes (in code, testing, artwork, documentation etc.)\n
            \n
            The Linux mindset is best expressed by a quote from Simon Travaglia (which I paraphrase because I don’t remember it verbatim): “We’re tasked with the well-being of the servers, not the users. They’re lucky we even let them log in since users technically *upset* the smooth operation of the servers.”
            """
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            I’m glad Wayland solves problems for you, but it creates them for others.\n
            \n
            Imagine being forced to go the other way. Could you be coerced into going back to Xorg? What would you do if a distro attempted to do that to you?
            """
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            You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
            \n
            Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
            """
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        1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2312}
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          +body: """
            They aren’t facts, again, they’re wishful thinking. I’m a long time contributor and developer and I can assure you that with things as complex as X and Wayland things would move slowly even if everybody was of the same mind, let alone in the “herding cats” style of FOSS.\n
            \n
            Wayland has been in development for 15 years and it’s still not ready – please, it’s not, and stomping our feet and claiming otherwise won’t make it so. Another 5 years will probably see it reach a more stable state.\n
            \n
            What do I mean by ready? Well the desktop stack [on Linux and *NIX] is extremely complex. Whenever you’re dealing with something extremely complex in software, over the years, you amass a large amount of solutions that solve real world problems. That’s what I call “ready”. Most of those solutions will be dealing with quirks and use cases which do not affect everybody equally, but they’re each crucial in their own way to a varying slice of the userbase.\n
            \n
            Whenever you rewrite something from scratch you throw away the bulk of those quirks. It’s a common fallacy for developers to look at the shiny new thing and think that it’s better. In reality it’s worthless without the quirks, and accumulating those quirks all over again takes a long time. X has been accumulating them for 40 years. Wayland is barely scratching the surface.\n
            \n
            The fact the protocol places and splits the burden over the various DE and WM teams will NOT help. We will need libraries that solve the same problem once instead of over and over, and most DE/WM will come to depend on those libraries. The end result will be eerily similar to X. Ironically, by the time Wayland will be done it will have spent a comparable time in development to X, and will have accumulated the same amount of baggage that people dislike about X.\n
            \n
            > What percentage of the Linux Desktop universe are you expecting will still be using X at the end of 2025?\n
            \n
            More or less the same that’s using X right now. GNOME, KDE and the various distros will get a bloody nose trying to force Wayland through but if that’s the only way they learn, so be it.\n
            \n
            The Steam Deck actually has one of the few use cases where Wayland actually makes sense, it’s a turnkey, highly controlled stack (both software and hardware) where users don’t have any reasons to care about what’s under the hood. I expect them to switch ASAP.\n
            \n
            Another place where Wayland can be used straightaway is the desktop graphical login screen (which is the original reason it was created for anyway). It’s a singular application with reduced requirements and simplistic interactions.
            """
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Attributes
[]
Component
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  +editedAt: null
}
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Input props
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]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent {#4553
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}
vote App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent 12.0 MiB 0.41 ms
Input props
[
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    +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1361
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      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585
        +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#4079 …}
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          From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
          \n
          Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).\n
          \n
          Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.\n
          \n
          ### Rules\n
          \n
          - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
          - No misinformation\n
          - No NSFW content\n
          - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
          \n
          ### Related Communities\n
          \n
          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
          - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
          \n
          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
          """
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      +image: null
      +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2956 …}
      +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
      +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
        \n
        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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            > You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
            \n
            All I see is a rift in the community over one side pushing software that’s beta-quality at best, and acting very arrogant and dismissive towards real adoption impediments.\n
            \n
            Which is par for the course for Linux, naturally, but “it’s happening” is wishful thinking at this stage. At this rate and with this attitude it will take at least another 5 years.\n
            \n
            Wayland’s worst enemy is its own fans.
            """
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            “Linux” is not an entity with well defined goals, it’s a community that mostly does whatever it wants. That has the fortunate side effect of producing labors of love in software, that prove really useful in the real world. But it also ignores things like user experience, which affect things like the desktop the most.\n
            \n
            On Linux the user is a second-class citizen, because worth in the community is determined by how much a person contributes (in code, testing, artwork, documentation etc.)\n
            \n
            The Linux mindset is best expressed by a quote from Simon Travaglia (which I paraphrase because I don’t remember it verbatim): “We’re tasked with the well-being of the servers, not the users. They’re lucky we even let them log in since users technically *upset* the smooth operation of the servers.”
            """
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            I’m glad Wayland solves problems for you, but it creates them for others.\n
            \n
            Imagine being forced to go the other way. Could you be coerced into going back to Xorg? What would you do if a distro attempted to do that to you?
            """
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            You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
            \n
            Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
            """
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          +body: """
            They aren’t facts, again, they’re wishful thinking. I’m a long time contributor and developer and I can assure you that with things as complex as X and Wayland things would move slowly even if everybody was of the same mind, let alone in the “herding cats” style of FOSS.\n
            \n
            Wayland has been in development for 15 years and it’s still not ready – please, it’s not, and stomping our feet and claiming otherwise won’t make it so. Another 5 years will probably see it reach a more stable state.\n
            \n
            What do I mean by ready? Well the desktop stack [on Linux and *NIX] is extremely complex. Whenever you’re dealing with something extremely complex in software, over the years, you amass a large amount of solutions that solve real world problems. That’s what I call “ready”. Most of those solutions will be dealing with quirks and use cases which do not affect everybody equally, but they’re each crucial in their own way to a varying slice of the userbase.\n
            \n
            Whenever you rewrite something from scratch you throw away the bulk of those quirks. It’s a common fallacy for developers to look at the shiny new thing and think that it’s better. In reality it’s worthless without the quirks, and accumulating those quirks all over again takes a long time. X has been accumulating them for 40 years. Wayland is barely scratching the surface.\n
            \n
            The fact the protocol places and splits the burden over the various DE and WM teams will NOT help. We will need libraries that solve the same problem once instead of over and over, and most DE/WM will come to depend on those libraries. The end result will be eerily similar to X. Ironically, by the time Wayland will be done it will have spent a comparable time in development to X, and will have accumulated the same amount of baggage that people dislike about X.\n
            \n
            > What percentage of the Linux Desktop universe are you expecting will still be using X at the end of 2025?\n
            \n
            More or less the same that’s using X right now. GNOME, KDE and the various distros will get a bloody nose trying to force Wayland through but if that’s the only way they learn, so be it.\n
            \n
            The Steam Deck actually has one of the few use cases where Wayland actually makes sense, it’s a turnkey, highly controlled stack (both software and hardware) where users don’t have any reasons to care about what’s under the hood. I expect them to switch ASAP.\n
            \n
            Another place where Wayland can be used straightaway is the desktop graphical login screen (which is the original reason it was created for anyway). It’s a singular application with reduced requirements and simplistic interactions.
            """
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      > but why should AMD, Intel and NVIDIA care about Linux desktop\n
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      They care because it’s free testing for their more lucrative Linux-based products. We’re their lab rats.
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          ### Rules\n
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      +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2956 …}
      +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
      +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
        \n
        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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        date: 2024-02-17 22:16:50.0 +01:00
      }
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        5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2086
          +user: App\Entity\User {#259}
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          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …2}
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          +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2090 …}
          +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1403 …}
          +body: """
            > You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
            \n
            All I see is a rift in the community over one side pushing software that’s beta-quality at best, and acting very arrogant and dismissive towards real adoption impediments.\n
            \n
            Which is par for the course for Linux, naturally, but “it’s happening” is wishful thinking at this stage. At this rate and with this attitude it will take at least another 5 years.\n
            \n
            Wayland’s worst enemy is its own fans.
            """
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            date: 2023-11-19 22:48:05.0 +01:00
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            "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
            "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
            "@LeFantome@programming.dev"
          ]
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            date: 2023-11-19 22:48:05.0 +01:00
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          +body: """
            “Linux” is not an entity with well defined goals, it’s a community that mostly does whatever it wants. That has the fortunate side effect of producing labors of love in software, that prove really useful in the real world. But it also ignores things like user experience, which affect things like the desktop the most.\n
            \n
            On Linux the user is a second-class citizen, because worth in the community is determined by how much a person contributes (in code, testing, artwork, documentation etc.)\n
            \n
            The Linux mindset is best expressed by a quote from Simon Travaglia (which I paraphrase because I don’t remember it verbatim): “We’re tasked with the well-being of the servers, not the users. They’re lucky we even let them log in since users technically *upset* the smooth operation of the servers.”
            """
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            "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
            "@michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
            "@LeFantome@programming.dev"
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            date: 2023-11-19 22:36:06.0 +01:00
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        }
        3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2012
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          +body: """
            I’m glad Wayland solves problems for you, but it creates them for others.\n
            \n
            Imagine being forced to go the other way. Could you be coerced into going back to Xorg? What would you do if a distro attempted to do that to you?
            """
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            date: 2023-11-19 22:21:07.0 +01:00
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        }
        2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1363
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          +body: """
            You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
            \n
            Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
            """
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            They aren’t facts, again, they’re wishful thinking. I’m a long time contributor and developer and I can assure you that with things as complex as X and Wayland things would move slowly even if everybody was of the same mind, let alone in the “herding cats” style of FOSS.\n
            \n
            Wayland has been in development for 15 years and it’s still not ready – please, it’s not, and stomping our feet and claiming otherwise won’t make it so. Another 5 years will probably see it reach a more stable state.\n
            \n
            What do I mean by ready? Well the desktop stack [on Linux and *NIX] is extremely complex. Whenever you’re dealing with something extremely complex in software, over the years, you amass a large amount of solutions that solve real world problems. That’s what I call “ready”. Most of those solutions will be dealing with quirks and use cases which do not affect everybody equally, but they’re each crucial in their own way to a varying slice of the userbase.\n
            \n
            Whenever you rewrite something from scratch you throw away the bulk of those quirks. It’s a common fallacy for developers to look at the shiny new thing and think that it’s better. In reality it’s worthless without the quirks, and accumulating those quirks all over again takes a long time. X has been accumulating them for 40 years. Wayland is barely scratching the surface.\n
            \n
            The fact the protocol places and splits the burden over the various DE and WM teams will NOT help. We will need libraries that solve the same problem once instead of over and over, and most DE/WM will come to depend on those libraries. The end result will be eerily similar to X. Ironically, by the time Wayland will be done it will have spent a comparable time in development to X, and will have accumulated the same amount of baggage that people dislike about X.\n
            \n
            > What percentage of the Linux Desktop universe are you expecting will still be using X at the end of 2025?\n
            \n
            More or less the same that’s using X right now. GNOME, KDE and the various distros will get a bloody nose trying to force Wayland through but if that’s the only way they learn, so be it.\n
            \n
            The Steam Deck actually has one of the few use cases where Wayland actually makes sense, it’s a turnkey, highly controlled stack (both software and hardware) where users don’t have any reasons to care about what’s under the hood. I expect them to switch ASAP.\n
            \n
            Another place where Wayland can be used straightaway is the desktop graphical login screen (which is the original reason it was created for anyway). It’s a singular application with reduced requirements and simplistic interactions.
            """
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      > but why should AMD, Intel and NVIDIA care about Linux desktop\n
      \n
      They care because it’s free testing for their more lucrative Linux-based products. We’re their lab rats.
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          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
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          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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      +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
      +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
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      +body: """
        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
        \n
        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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          +body: """
            > You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
            \n
            All I see is a rift in the community over one side pushing software that’s beta-quality at best, and acting very arrogant and dismissive towards real adoption impediments.\n
            \n
            Which is par for the course for Linux, naturally, but “it’s happening” is wishful thinking at this stage. At this rate and with this attitude it will take at least another 5 years.\n
            \n
            Wayland’s worst enemy is its own fans.
            """
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        4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2083
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          +body: """
            “Linux” is not an entity with well defined goals, it’s a community that mostly does whatever it wants. That has the fortunate side effect of producing labors of love in software, that prove really useful in the real world. But it also ignores things like user experience, which affect things like the desktop the most.\n
            \n
            On Linux the user is a second-class citizen, because worth in the community is determined by how much a person contributes (in code, testing, artwork, documentation etc.)\n
            \n
            The Linux mindset is best expressed by a quote from Simon Travaglia (which I paraphrase because I don’t remember it verbatim): “We’re tasked with the well-being of the servers, not the users. They’re lucky we even let them log in since users technically *upset* the smooth operation of the servers.”
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          -bodyTs: "'affect':50 'also':43 'artwork':83 'best':90 'citizen':66 'class':65 'code':81 'communiti':13,71 'contribut':79 'defin':8 'desktop':54 'determin':73 'document':84 'effect':25 'entiti':5 'etc':85 'even':126 'experi':48 'express':91 'fortun':23 'goal':9 'ignor':44 'labor':28 'let':127 'like':46,52 'linux':1,58,87 'log':129 'love':30 'lucki':124 'mindset':88 'most':15 'much':76 'oper':137 'paraphras':100 'person':78 'produc':27 'prove':34 'quot':94 're':109,123 'real':39 'realli':35 'rememb':105 'second':64 'second-class':63 'server':118,140 'side':24 'simon':96 'sinc':131 'smooth':136 'softwar':32 'task':110 'technic':133 'test':82 'thing':45,51 'travaglia':97 'upset':134 'use':36 'user':47,60,121,132 'verbatim':107 'want':19 'well':7,114 'well-b':113 'whatev':17 'world':40 'worth':68"
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            date: 2023-11-19 22:36:06.0 +01:00
          }
          +"title": 141024
        }
        3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2012
          +user: App\Entity\User {#259}
          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1361 …2}
          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …2}
          +image: null
          +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2020 …}
          +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1403 …}
          +body: """
            I’m glad Wayland solves problems for you, but it creates them for others.\n
            \n
            Imagine being forced to go the other way. Could you be coerced into going back to Xorg? What would you do if a distro attempted to do that to you?
            """
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          +isAdult: false
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            date: 2023-11-19 22:21:07.0 +01:00
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            "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
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            "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
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          -id: 140989
          -bodyTs: "'attempt':39 'back':29 'coerc':26 'could':23 'creat':11 'distro':38 'forc':17 'glad':3 'go':19,28 'imagin':15 'm':2 'other':14 'problem':6 'solv':5 'way':22 'wayland':4 'would':33 'xorg':31"
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            date: 2023-11-19 22:21:07.0 +01:00
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          +"title": 140989
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        2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1363
          +user: App\Entity\User {#259}
          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1361 …2}
          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …2}
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          +body: """
            You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
            \n
            Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
            """
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            date: 2023-11-19 03:09:37.0 +01:00
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          +"title": 138758
        }
        1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2312}
        0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2325
          +user: App\Entity\User {#259}
          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1361 …2}
          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …2}
          +image: null
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          +body: """
            They aren’t facts, again, they’re wishful thinking. I’m a long time contributor and developer and I can assure you that with things as complex as X and Wayland things would move slowly even if everybody was of the same mind, let alone in the “herding cats” style of FOSS.\n
            \n
            Wayland has been in development for 15 years and it’s still not ready – please, it’s not, and stomping our feet and claiming otherwise won’t make it so. Another 5 years will probably see it reach a more stable state.\n
            \n
            What do I mean by ready? Well the desktop stack [on Linux and *NIX] is extremely complex. Whenever you’re dealing with something extremely complex in software, over the years, you amass a large amount of solutions that solve real world problems. That’s what I call “ready”. Most of those solutions will be dealing with quirks and use cases which do not affect everybody equally, but they’re each crucial in their own way to a varying slice of the userbase.\n
            \n
            Whenever you rewrite something from scratch you throw away the bulk of those quirks. It’s a common fallacy for developers to look at the shiny new thing and think that it’s better. In reality it’s worthless without the quirks, and accumulating those quirks all over again takes a long time. X has been accumulating them for 40 years. Wayland is barely scratching the surface.\n
            \n
            The fact the protocol places and splits the burden over the various DE and WM teams will NOT help. We will need libraries that solve the same problem once instead of over and over, and most DE/WM will come to depend on those libraries. The end result will be eerily similar to X. Ironically, by the time Wayland will be done it will have spent a comparable time in development to X, and will have accumulated the same amount of baggage that people dislike about X.\n
            \n
            > What percentage of the Linux Desktop universe are you expecting will still be using X at the end of 2025?\n
            \n
            More or less the same that’s using X right now. GNOME, KDE and the various distros will get a bloody nose trying to force Wayland through but if that’s the only way they learn, so be it.\n
            \n
            The Steam Deck actually has one of the few use cases where Wayland actually makes sense, it’s a turnkey, highly controlled stack (both software and hardware) where users don’t have any reasons to care about what’s under the hood. I expect them to switch ASAP.\n
            \n
            Another place where Wayland can be used straightaway is the desktop graphical login screen (which is the original reason it was created for anyway). It’s a singular application with reduced requirements and simplistic interactions.
            """
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      > but why should AMD, Intel and NVIDIA care about Linux desktop\n
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      They care because it’s free testing for their more lucrative Linux-based products. We’re their lab rats.
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          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
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        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
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        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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        5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2086
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            > You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
            \n
            All I see is a rift in the community over one side pushing software that’s beta-quality at best, and acting very arrogant and dismissive towards real adoption impediments.\n
            \n
            Which is par for the course for Linux, naturally, but “it’s happening” is wishful thinking at this stage. At this rate and with this attitude it will take at least another 5 years.\n
            \n
            Wayland’s worst enemy is its own fans.
            """
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            “Linux” is not an entity with well defined goals, it’s a community that mostly does whatever it wants. That has the fortunate side effect of producing labors of love in software, that prove really useful in the real world. But it also ignores things like user experience, which affect things like the desktop the most.\n
            \n
            On Linux the user is a second-class citizen, because worth in the community is determined by how much a person contributes (in code, testing, artwork, documentation etc.)\n
            \n
            The Linux mindset is best expressed by a quote from Simon Travaglia (which I paraphrase because I don’t remember it verbatim): “We’re tasked with the well-being of the servers, not the users. They’re lucky we even let them log in since users technically *upset* the smooth operation of the servers.”
            """
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            I’m glad Wayland solves problems for you, but it creates them for others.\n
            \n
            Imagine being forced to go the other way. Could you be coerced into going back to Xorg? What would you do if a distro attempted to do that to you?
            """
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            You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
            \n
            Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
            """
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        1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2312}
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          +body: """
            They aren’t facts, again, they’re wishful thinking. I’m a long time contributor and developer and I can assure you that with things as complex as X and Wayland things would move slowly even if everybody was of the same mind, let alone in the “herding cats” style of FOSS.\n
            \n
            Wayland has been in development for 15 years and it’s still not ready – please, it’s not, and stomping our feet and claiming otherwise won’t make it so. Another 5 years will probably see it reach a more stable state.\n
            \n
            What do I mean by ready? Well the desktop stack [on Linux and *NIX] is extremely complex. Whenever you’re dealing with something extremely complex in software, over the years, you amass a large amount of solutions that solve real world problems. That’s what I call “ready”. Most of those solutions will be dealing with quirks and use cases which do not affect everybody equally, but they’re each crucial in their own way to a varying slice of the userbase.\n
            \n
            Whenever you rewrite something from scratch you throw away the bulk of those quirks. It’s a common fallacy for developers to look at the shiny new thing and think that it’s better. In reality it’s worthless without the quirks, and accumulating those quirks all over again takes a long time. X has been accumulating them for 40 years. Wayland is barely scratching the surface.\n
            \n
            The fact the protocol places and splits the burden over the various DE and WM teams will NOT help. We will need libraries that solve the same problem once instead of over and over, and most DE/WM will come to depend on those libraries. The end result will be eerily similar to X. Ironically, by the time Wayland will be done it will have spent a comparable time in development to X, and will have accumulated the same amount of baggage that people dislike about X.\n
            \n
            > What percentage of the Linux Desktop universe are you expecting will still be using X at the end of 2025?\n
            \n
            More or less the same that’s using X right now. GNOME, KDE and the various distros will get a bloody nose trying to force Wayland through but if that’s the only way they learn, so be it.\n
            \n
            The Steam Deck actually has one of the few use cases where Wayland actually makes sense, it’s a turnkey, highly controlled stack (both software and hardware) where users don’t have any reasons to care about what’s under the hood. I expect them to switch ASAP.\n
            \n
            Another place where Wayland can be used straightaway is the desktop graphical login screen (which is the original reason it was created for anyway). It’s a singular application with reduced requirements and simplistic interactions.
            """
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      > but why should AMD, Intel and NVIDIA care about Linux desktop\n
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      They care because it’s free testing for their more lucrative Linux-based products. We’re their lab rats.
      """
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          ### Rules\n
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      +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2956 …}
      +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
      +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
        \n
        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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        date: 2024-02-17 22:16:50.0 +01:00
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        5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2086
          +user: App\Entity\User {#259}
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          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …2}
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          +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2090 …}
          +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1403 …}
          +body: """
            > You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
            \n
            All I see is a rift in the community over one side pushing software that’s beta-quality at best, and acting very arrogant and dismissive towards real adoption impediments.\n
            \n
            Which is par for the course for Linux, naturally, but “it’s happening” is wishful thinking at this stage. At this rate and with this attitude it will take at least another 5 years.\n
            \n
            Wayland’s worst enemy is its own fans.
            """
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            "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
            "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
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          ]
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            date: 2023-11-19 22:48:05.0 +01:00
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          +body: """
            “Linux” is not an entity with well defined goals, it’s a community that mostly does whatever it wants. That has the fortunate side effect of producing labors of love in software, that prove really useful in the real world. But it also ignores things like user experience, which affect things like the desktop the most.\n
            \n
            On Linux the user is a second-class citizen, because worth in the community is determined by how much a person contributes (in code, testing, artwork, documentation etc.)\n
            \n
            The Linux mindset is best expressed by a quote from Simon Travaglia (which I paraphrase because I don’t remember it verbatim): “We’re tasked with the well-being of the servers, not the users. They’re lucky we even let them log in since users technically *upset* the smooth operation of the servers.”
            """
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            "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
            "@michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
            "@LeFantome@programming.dev"
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            date: 2023-11-19 22:36:06.0 +01:00
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        }
        3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2012
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          +body: """
            I’m glad Wayland solves problems for you, but it creates them for others.\n
            \n
            Imagine being forced to go the other way. Could you be coerced into going back to Xorg? What would you do if a distro attempted to do that to you?
            """
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        }
        2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1363
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          +body: """
            You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
            \n
            Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
            """
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        1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2312
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            > but why should AMD, Intel and NVIDIA care about Linux desktop\n
            \n
            They care because it’s free testing for their more lucrative Linux-based products. We’re their lab rats.
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      They aren’t facts, again, they’re wishful thinking. I’m a long time contributor and developer and I can assure you that with things as complex as X and Wayland things would move slowly even if everybody was of the same mind, let alone in the “herding cats” style of FOSS.\n
      \n
      Wayland has been in development for 15 years and it’s still not ready – please, it’s not, and stomping our feet and claiming otherwise won’t make it so. Another 5 years will probably see it reach a more stable state.\n
      \n
      What do I mean by ready? Well the desktop stack [on Linux and *NIX] is extremely complex. Whenever you’re dealing with something extremely complex in software, over the years, you amass a large amount of solutions that solve real world problems. That’s what I call “ready”. Most of those solutions will be dealing with quirks and use cases which do not affect everybody equally, but they’re each crucial in their own way to a varying slice of the userbase.\n
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      Whenever you rewrite something from scratch you throw away the bulk of those quirks. It’s a common fallacy for developers to look at the shiny new thing and think that it’s better. In reality it’s worthless without the quirks, and accumulating those quirks all over again takes a long time. X has been accumulating them for 40 years. Wayland is barely scratching the surface.\n
      \n
      The fact the protocol places and splits the burden over the various DE and WM teams will NOT help. We will need libraries that solve the same problem once instead of over and over, and most DE/WM will come to depend on those libraries. The end result will be eerily similar to X. Ironically, by the time Wayland will be done it will have spent a comparable time in development to X, and will have accumulated the same amount of baggage that people dislike about X.\n
      \n
      > What percentage of the Linux Desktop universe are you expecting will still be using X at the end of 2025?\n
      \n
      More or less the same that’s using X right now. GNOME, KDE and the various distros will get a bloody nose trying to force Wayland through but if that’s the only way they learn, so be it.\n
      \n
      The Steam Deck actually has one of the few use cases where Wayland actually makes sense, it’s a turnkey, highly controlled stack (both software and hardware) where users don’t have any reasons to care about what’s under the hood. I expect them to switch ASAP.\n
      \n
      Another place where Wayland can be used straightaway is the desktop graphical login screen (which is the original reason it was created for anyway). It’s a singular application with reduced requirements and simplistic interactions.
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          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
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          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
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          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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      +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
      +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
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      +body: """
        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
        \n
        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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        5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2086
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          +body: """
            > You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
            \n
            All I see is a rift in the community over one side pushing software that’s beta-quality at best, and acting very arrogant and dismissive towards real adoption impediments.\n
            \n
            Which is par for the course for Linux, naturally, but “it’s happening” is wishful thinking at this stage. At this rate and with this attitude it will take at least another 5 years.\n
            \n
            Wayland’s worst enemy is its own fans.
            """
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        4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2083
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          +body: """
            “Linux” is not an entity with well defined goals, it’s a community that mostly does whatever it wants. That has the fortunate side effect of producing labors of love in software, that prove really useful in the real world. But it also ignores things like user experience, which affect things like the desktop the most.\n
            \n
            On Linux the user is a second-class citizen, because worth in the community is determined by how much a person contributes (in code, testing, artwork, documentation etc.)\n
            \n
            The Linux mindset is best expressed by a quote from Simon Travaglia (which I paraphrase because I don’t remember it verbatim): “We’re tasked with the well-being of the servers, not the users. They’re lucky we even let them log in since users technically *upset* the smooth operation of the servers.”
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          -bodyTs: "'affect':50 'also':43 'artwork':83 'best':90 'citizen':66 'class':65 'code':81 'communiti':13,71 'contribut':79 'defin':8 'desktop':54 'determin':73 'document':84 'effect':25 'entiti':5 'etc':85 'even':126 'experi':48 'express':91 'fortun':23 'goal':9 'ignor':44 'labor':28 'let':127 'like':46,52 'linux':1,58,87 'log':129 'love':30 'lucki':124 'mindset':88 'most':15 'much':76 'oper':137 'paraphras':100 'person':78 'produc':27 'prove':34 'quot':94 're':109,123 'real':39 'realli':35 'rememb':105 'second':64 'second-class':63 'server':118,140 'side':24 'simon':96 'sinc':131 'smooth':136 'softwar':32 'task':110 'technic':133 'test':82 'thing':45,51 'travaglia':97 'upset':134 'use':36 'user':47,60,121,132 'verbatim':107 'want':19 'well':7,114 'well-b':113 'whatev':17 'world':40 'worth':68"
          +ranking: 0
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          +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700429766 {#2097
            date: 2023-11-19 22:36:06.0 +01:00
          }
          +"title": 141024
        }
        3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2012
          +user: App\Entity\User {#259}
          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1361 …2}
          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …2}
          +image: null
          +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2020 …}
          +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1403 …}
          +body: """
            I’m glad Wayland solves problems for you, but it creates them for others.\n
            \n
            Imagine being forced to go the other way. Could you be coerced into going back to Xorg? What would you do if a distro attempted to do that to you?
            """
          +lang: "en"
          +isAdult: false
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            date: 2023-11-19 22:21:07.0 +01:00
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            "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
            "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
            "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
          ]
          +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2013 …}
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          -id: 140989
          -bodyTs: "'attempt':39 'back':29 'coerc':26 'could':23 'creat':11 'distro':38 'forc':17 'glad':3 'go':19,28 'imagin':15 'm':2 'other':14 'problem':6 'solv':5 'way':22 'wayland':4 'would':33 'xorg':31"
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          +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700428867 {#2029
            date: 2023-11-19 22:21:07.0 +01:00
          }
          +"title": 140989
        }
        2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1363
          +user: App\Entity\User {#259}
          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1361 …2}
          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …2}
          +image: null
          +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1362 …}
          +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1403 …}
          +body: """
            You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
            \n
            Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
            """
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          +isAdult: false
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            date: 2023-11-19 03:09:37.0 +01:00
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            "@theshatterstone54@feddit.uk"
            "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
            "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
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          -id: 138758
          -bodyTs: "'adopt':44 'better':36 'come':40 'everyth':16 'featur':14 'fine':18 'forc':43 'forgot':2 'happen':28 'let':26 'll':39 'make':47 'natur':29 'need':9 'part':4 'peopl':23,48 'push':22 'readi':34 'reduc':13 'resent':49 'stop':21 'toward':24 'tri':41 'wayland':10,25 'work':17 'xorg':20"
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            date: 2023-11-19 03:09:37.0 +01:00
          }
          +"title": 138758
        }
        1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2312
          +user: App\Entity\User {#259}
          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1361 …2}
          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …2}
          +image: null
          +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2310 …}
          +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1403 …}
          +body: """
            > but why should AMD, Intel and NVIDIA care about Linux desktop\n
            \n
            They care because it’s free testing for their more lucrative Linux-based products. We’re their lab rats.
            """
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            "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
            "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
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        0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2325}
      ]
      -id: 13812
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    +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1403 …}
    +body: """
      They aren’t facts, again, they’re wishful thinking. I’m a long time contributor and developer and I can assure you that with things as complex as X and Wayland things would move slowly even if everybody was of the same mind, let alone in the “herding cats” style of FOSS.\n
      \n
      Wayland has been in development for 15 years and it’s still not ready – please, it’s not, and stomping our feet and claiming otherwise won’t make it so. Another 5 years will probably see it reach a more stable state.\n
      \n
      What do I mean by ready? Well the desktop stack [on Linux and *NIX] is extremely complex. Whenever you’re dealing with something extremely complex in software, over the years, you amass a large amount of solutions that solve real world problems. That’s what I call “ready”. Most of those solutions will be dealing with quirks and use cases which do not affect everybody equally, but they’re each crucial in their own way to a varying slice of the userbase.\n
      \n
      Whenever you rewrite something from scratch you throw away the bulk of those quirks. It’s a common fallacy for developers to look at the shiny new thing and think that it’s better. In reality it’s worthless without the quirks, and accumulating those quirks all over again takes a long time. X has been accumulating them for 40 years. Wayland is barely scratching the surface.\n
      \n
      The fact the protocol places and splits the burden over the various DE and WM teams will NOT help. We will need libraries that solve the same problem once instead of over and over, and most DE/WM will come to depend on those libraries. The end result will be eerily similar to X. Ironically, by the time Wayland will be done it will have spent a comparable time in development to X, and will have accumulated the same amount of baggage that people dislike about X.\n
      \n
      > What percentage of the Linux Desktop universe are you expecting will still be using X at the end of 2025?\n
      \n
      More or less the same that’s using X right now. GNOME, KDE and the various distros will get a bloody nose trying to force Wayland through but if that’s the only way they learn, so be it.\n
      \n
      The Steam Deck actually has one of the few use cases where Wayland actually makes sense, it’s a turnkey, highly controlled stack (both software and hardware) where users don’t have any reasons to care about what’s under the hood. I expect them to switch ASAP.\n
      \n
      Another place where Wayland can be used straightaway is the desktop graphical login screen (which is the original reason it was created for anyway). It’s a singular application with reduced requirements and simplistic interactions.
      """
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  +showMagazineName: false
  +showEntryTitle: false
  +showNested: false
  +level: 1
  +canSeeTrash: false
  +dateAsUrl: true
  -requestStack: Symfony\Component\HttpFoundation\RequestStack {#1328 …}
  -authorizationChecker: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\AuthorizationChecker {#931 …}
}
user_inline App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent 12.0 MiB 0.13 ms
Input props
[
  "user" => App\Entity\User {#259
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +username: "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1727573233 {#267
      date: 2024-09-29 03:27:13.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: true
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: false
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
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    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#231 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#161 …}
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    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#77 …}
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    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1816 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1851 …}
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    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1602 …}
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687169920 {#269
      date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
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  "showAvatar" => false
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent {#3326
  +user: App\Entity\User {#259
    +avatar: null
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      date: 2024-09-29 03:27:13.0 +02:00
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    +markedForDeletionAt: null
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    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
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    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
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date App\Twig\Components\DateComponent 12.0 MiB 0.15 ms
Input props
[
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    date: 2023-11-20 09:43:35.0 +01:00
  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateComponent {#5684
  +date: DateTimeImmutable @1700469815 {#2191
    date: 2023-11-20 09:43:35.0 +01:00
  }
}
date_edited App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent 12.0 MiB 0.09 ms
Input props
[
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    date: 2023-11-20 09:43:35.0 +01:00
  }
  "editedAt" => null
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent {#7864
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700469815 {#2191
    date: 2023-11-20 09:43:35.0 +01:00
  }
  +editedAt: null
}
user_avatar App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent 12.0 MiB 0.14 ms
Input props
[
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    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +username: "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +roles: []
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      date: 2024-09-29 03:27:13.0 +02:00
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    +markedForDeletionAt: null
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    +showSubscribedUsers: true
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    +addMentionsPosts: true
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    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
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      date: 2024-09-22 23:15:33.0 +02:00
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      date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
    }
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  "width" => 40
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  "asLink" => true
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent {#7918
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    +markedForDeletionAt: null
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    +customCss: null
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    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
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      date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
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  +asLink: true
}
vote App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent 12.0 MiB 0.53 ms
Input props
[
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      +cover: null
      +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
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          \n
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          \n
          Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.\n
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          \n
          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
          - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
          \n
          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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      +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
      +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
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      +body: """
        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
        \n
        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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        5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2086
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          +body: """
            > You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
            \n
            All I see is a rift in the community over one side pushing software that’s beta-quality at best, and acting very arrogant and dismissive towards real adoption impediments.\n
            \n
            Which is par for the course for Linux, naturally, but “it’s happening” is wishful thinking at this stage. At this rate and with this attitude it will take at least another 5 years.\n
            \n
            Wayland’s worst enemy is its own fans.
            """
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            "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
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        4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2083
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          +body: """
            “Linux” is not an entity with well defined goals, it’s a community that mostly does whatever it wants. That has the fortunate side effect of producing labors of love in software, that prove really useful in the real world. But it also ignores things like user experience, which affect things like the desktop the most.\n
            \n
            On Linux the user is a second-class citizen, because worth in the community is determined by how much a person contributes (in code, testing, artwork, documentation etc.)\n
            \n
            The Linux mindset is best expressed by a quote from Simon Travaglia (which I paraphrase because I don’t remember it verbatim): “We’re tasked with the well-being of the servers, not the users. They’re lucky we even let them log in since users technically *upset* the smooth operation of the servers.”
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          -bodyTs: "'affect':50 'also':43 'artwork':83 'best':90 'citizen':66 'class':65 'code':81 'communiti':13,71 'contribut':79 'defin':8 'desktop':54 'determin':73 'document':84 'effect':25 'entiti':5 'etc':85 'even':126 'experi':48 'express':91 'fortun':23 'goal':9 'ignor':44 'labor':28 'let':127 'like':46,52 'linux':1,58,87 'log':129 'love':30 'lucki':124 'mindset':88 'most':15 'much':76 'oper':137 'paraphras':100 'person':78 'produc':27 'prove':34 'quot':94 're':109,123 'real':39 'realli':35 'rememb':105 'second':64 'second-class':63 'server':118,140 'side':24 'simon':96 'sinc':131 'smooth':136 'softwar':32 'task':110 'technic':133 'test':82 'thing':45,51 'travaglia':97 'upset':134 'use':36 'user':47,60,121,132 'verbatim':107 'want':19 'well':7,114 'well-b':113 'whatev':17 'world':40 'worth':68"
          +ranking: 0
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          +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700429766 {#2097
            date: 2023-11-19 22:36:06.0 +01:00
          }
          +"title": 141024
        }
        3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2012
          +user: App\Entity\User {#259}
          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1361 …2}
          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …2}
          +image: null
          +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2020 …}
          +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1403 …}
          +body: """
            I’m glad Wayland solves problems for you, but it creates them for others.\n
            \n
            Imagine being forced to go the other way. Could you be coerced into going back to Xorg? What would you do if a distro attempted to do that to you?
            """
          +lang: "en"
          +isAdult: false
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            date: 2023-11-19 22:21:07.0 +01:00
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            "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
            "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
            "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
          ]
          +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2013 …}
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          -id: 140989
          -bodyTs: "'attempt':39 'back':29 'coerc':26 'could':23 'creat':11 'distro':38 'forc':17 'glad':3 'go':19,28 'imagin':15 'm':2 'other':14 'problem':6 'solv':5 'way':22 'wayland':4 'would':33 'xorg':31"
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          +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700428867 {#2029
            date: 2023-11-19 22:21:07.0 +01:00
          }
          +"title": 140989
        }
        2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1363
          +user: App\Entity\User {#259}
          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1361 …2}
          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …2}
          +image: null
          +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1362 …}
          +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1403 …}
          +body: """
            You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
            \n
            Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
            """
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          +isAdult: false
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            date: 2023-11-19 03:09:37.0 +01:00
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            "@theshatterstone54@feddit.uk"
            "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
            "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
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          -id: 138758
          -bodyTs: "'adopt':44 'better':36 'come':40 'everyth':16 'featur':14 'fine':18 'forc':43 'forgot':2 'happen':28 'let':26 'll':39 'make':47 'natur':29 'need':9 'part':4 'peopl':23,48 'push':22 'readi':34 'reduc':13 'resent':49 'stop':21 'toward':24 'tri':41 'wayland':10,25 'work':17 'xorg':20"
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            date: 2023-11-19 03:09:37.0 +01:00
          }
          +"title": 138758
        }
        1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2312
          +user: App\Entity\User {#259}
          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1361 …2}
          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …2}
          +image: null
          +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2310 …}
          +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1403 …}
          +body: """
            > but why should AMD, Intel and NVIDIA care about Linux desktop\n
            \n
            They care because it’s free testing for their more lucrative Linux-based products. We’re their lab rats.
            """
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            "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
            "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
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        0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2325}
      ]
      -id: 13812
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    +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1403 …}
    +body: """
      They aren’t facts, again, they’re wishful thinking. I’m a long time contributor and developer and I can assure you that with things as complex as X and Wayland things would move slowly even if everybody was of the same mind, let alone in the “herding cats” style of FOSS.\n
      \n
      Wayland has been in development for 15 years and it’s still not ready – please, it’s not, and stomping our feet and claiming otherwise won’t make it so. Another 5 years will probably see it reach a more stable state.\n
      \n
      What do I mean by ready? Well the desktop stack [on Linux and *NIX] is extremely complex. Whenever you’re dealing with something extremely complex in software, over the years, you amass a large amount of solutions that solve real world problems. That’s what I call “ready”. Most of those solutions will be dealing with quirks and use cases which do not affect everybody equally, but they’re each crucial in their own way to a varying slice of the userbase.\n
      \n
      Whenever you rewrite something from scratch you throw away the bulk of those quirks. It’s a common fallacy for developers to look at the shiny new thing and think that it’s better. In reality it’s worthless without the quirks, and accumulating those quirks all over again takes a long time. X has been accumulating them for 40 years. Wayland is barely scratching the surface.\n
      \n
      The fact the protocol places and splits the burden over the various DE and WM teams will NOT help. We will need libraries that solve the same problem once instead of over and over, and most DE/WM will come to depend on those libraries. The end result will be eerily similar to X. Ironically, by the time Wayland will be done it will have spent a comparable time in development to X, and will have accumulated the same amount of baggage that people dislike about X.\n
      \n
      > What percentage of the Linux Desktop universe are you expecting will still be using X at the end of 2025?\n
      \n
      More or less the same that’s using X right now. GNOME, KDE and the various distros will get a bloody nose trying to force Wayland through but if that’s the only way they learn, so be it.\n
      \n
      The Steam Deck actually has one of the few use cases where Wayland actually makes sense, it’s a turnkey, highly controlled stack (both software and hardware) where users don’t have any reasons to care about what’s under the hood. I expect them to switch ASAP.\n
      \n
      Another place where Wayland can be used straightaway is the desktop graphical login screen (which is the original reason it was created for anyway). It’s a singular application with reduced requirements and simplistic interactions.
      """
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        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
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        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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        date: 2024-02-17 22:16:50.0 +01:00
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        5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2086
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          +body: """
            > You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
            \n
            All I see is a rift in the community over one side pushing software that’s beta-quality at best, and acting very arrogant and dismissive towards real adoption impediments.\n
            \n
            Which is par for the course for Linux, naturally, but “it’s happening” is wishful thinking at this stage. At this rate and with this attitude it will take at least another 5 years.\n
            \n
            Wayland’s worst enemy is its own fans.
            """
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          -bodyTs: "'5':74 'act':33 'adopt':40 'anoth':73 'arrog':35 'attitud':67 'best':31 'beta':28 'beta-qu':27 'communiti':19 'cours':47 'dismiss':37 'enemi':79 'fan':83 'forgot':2 'happen':10,54 'impedi':41 'least':72 'linux':49 'natur':50 'one':21 'par':44 'part':4 'push':23 'qualiti':29 'rate':63 'real':39 'rift':16 'see':13 'side':22 'softwar':24 'stage':60 'take':70 'think':57 'toward':38 'wayland':76 'wish':56 'worst':78 'year':75"
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        4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2083
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          +body: """
            “Linux” is not an entity with well defined goals, it’s a community that mostly does whatever it wants. That has the fortunate side effect of producing labors of love in software, that prove really useful in the real world. But it also ignores things like user experience, which affect things like the desktop the most.\n
            \n
            On Linux the user is a second-class citizen, because worth in the community is determined by how much a person contributes (in code, testing, artwork, documentation etc.)\n
            \n
            The Linux mindset is best expressed by a quote from Simon Travaglia (which I paraphrase because I don’t remember it verbatim): “We’re tasked with the well-being of the servers, not the users. They’re lucky we even let them log in since users technically *upset* the smooth operation of the servers.”
            """
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            "@michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
            "@LeFantome@programming.dev"
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        3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2012
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          +body: """
            I’m glad Wayland solves problems for you, but it creates them for others.\n
            \n
            Imagine being forced to go the other way. Could you be coerced into going back to Xorg? What would you do if a distro attempted to do that to you?
            """
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          -id: 140989
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        2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1363
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          +body: """
            You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
            \n
            Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
            """
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          -id: 138758
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        1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2312
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          +body: """
            > but why should AMD, Intel and NVIDIA care about Linux desktop\n
            \n
            They care because it’s free testing for their more lucrative Linux-based products. We’re their lab rats.
            """
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      They aren’t facts, again, they’re wishful thinking. I’m a long time contributor and developer and I can assure you that with things as complex as X and Wayland things would move slowly even if everybody was of the same mind, let alone in the “herding cats” style of FOSS.\n
      \n
      Wayland has been in development for 15 years and it’s still not ready – please, it’s not, and stomping our feet and claiming otherwise won’t make it so. Another 5 years will probably see it reach a more stable state.\n
      \n
      What do I mean by ready? Well the desktop stack [on Linux and *NIX] is extremely complex. Whenever you’re dealing with something extremely complex in software, over the years, you amass a large amount of solutions that solve real world problems. That’s what I call “ready”. Most of those solutions will be dealing with quirks and use cases which do not affect everybody equally, but they’re each crucial in their own way to a varying slice of the userbase.\n
      \n
      Whenever you rewrite something from scratch you throw away the bulk of those quirks. It’s a common fallacy for developers to look at the shiny new thing and think that it’s better. In reality it’s worthless without the quirks, and accumulating those quirks all over again takes a long time. X has been accumulating them for 40 years. Wayland is barely scratching the surface.\n
      \n
      The fact the protocol places and splits the burden over the various DE and WM teams will NOT help. We will need libraries that solve the same problem once instead of over and over, and most DE/WM will come to depend on those libraries. The end result will be eerily similar to X. Ironically, by the time Wayland will be done it will have spent a comparable time in development to X, and will have accumulated the same amount of baggage that people dislike about X.\n
      \n
      > What percentage of the Linux Desktop universe are you expecting will still be using X at the end of 2025?\n
      \n
      More or less the same that’s using X right now. GNOME, KDE and the various distros will get a bloody nose trying to force Wayland through but if that’s the only way they learn, so be it.\n
      \n
      The Steam Deck actually has one of the few use cases where Wayland actually makes sense, it’s a turnkey, highly controlled stack (both software and hardware) where users don’t have any reasons to care about what’s under the hood. I expect them to switch ASAP.\n
      \n
      Another place where Wayland can be used straightaway is the desktop graphical login screen (which is the original reason it was created for anyway). It’s a singular application with reduced requirements and simplistic interactions.
      """
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          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
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      +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
      +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
        \n
        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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        date: 2024-02-17 22:16:50.0 +01:00
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          +body: """
            > You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
            \n
            All I see is a rift in the community over one side pushing software that’s beta-quality at best, and acting very arrogant and dismissive towards real adoption impediments.\n
            \n
            Which is par for the course for Linux, naturally, but “it’s happening” is wishful thinking at this stage. At this rate and with this attitude it will take at least another 5 years.\n
            \n
            Wayland’s worst enemy is its own fans.
            """
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          +body: """
            “Linux” is not an entity with well defined goals, it’s a community that mostly does whatever it wants. That has the fortunate side effect of producing labors of love in software, that prove really useful in the real world. But it also ignores things like user experience, which affect things like the desktop the most.\n
            \n
            On Linux the user is a second-class citizen, because worth in the community is determined by how much a person contributes (in code, testing, artwork, documentation etc.)\n
            \n
            The Linux mindset is best expressed by a quote from Simon Travaglia (which I paraphrase because I don’t remember it verbatim): “We’re tasked with the well-being of the servers, not the users. They’re lucky we even let them log in since users technically *upset* the smooth operation of the servers.”
            """
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          +body: """
            I’m glad Wayland solves problems for you, but it creates them for others.\n
            \n
            Imagine being forced to go the other way. Could you be coerced into going back to Xorg? What would you do if a distro attempted to do that to you?
            """
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          +body: """
            You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
            \n
            Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
            """
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            > but why should AMD, Intel and NVIDIA care about Linux desktop\n
            \n
            They care because it’s free testing for their more lucrative Linux-based products. We’re their lab rats.
            """
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      They aren’t facts, again, they’re wishful thinking. I’m a long time contributor and developer and I can assure you that with things as complex as X and Wayland things would move slowly even if everybody was of the same mind, let alone in the “herding cats” style of FOSS.\n
      \n
      Wayland has been in development for 15 years and it’s still not ready – please, it’s not, and stomping our feet and claiming otherwise won’t make it so. Another 5 years will probably see it reach a more stable state.\n
      \n
      What do I mean by ready? Well the desktop stack [on Linux and *NIX] is extremely complex. Whenever you’re dealing with something extremely complex in software, over the years, you amass a large amount of solutions that solve real world problems. That’s what I call “ready”. Most of those solutions will be dealing with quirks and use cases which do not affect everybody equally, but they’re each crucial in their own way to a varying slice of the userbase.\n
      \n
      Whenever you rewrite something from scratch you throw away the bulk of those quirks. It’s a common fallacy for developers to look at the shiny new thing and think that it’s better. In reality it’s worthless without the quirks, and accumulating those quirks all over again takes a long time. X has been accumulating them for 40 years. Wayland is barely scratching the surface.\n
      \n
      The fact the protocol places and splits the burden over the various DE and WM teams will NOT help. We will need libraries that solve the same problem once instead of over and over, and most DE/WM will come to depend on those libraries. The end result will be eerily similar to X. Ironically, by the time Wayland will be done it will have spent a comparable time in development to X, and will have accumulated the same amount of baggage that people dislike about X.\n
      \n
      > What percentage of the Linux Desktop universe are you expecting will still be using X at the end of 2025?\n
      \n
      More or less the same that’s using X right now. GNOME, KDE and the various distros will get a bloody nose trying to force Wayland through but if that’s the only way they learn, so be it.\n
      \n
      The Steam Deck actually has one of the few use cases where Wayland actually makes sense, it’s a turnkey, highly controlled stack (both software and hardware) where users don’t have any reasons to care about what’s under the hood. I expect them to switch ASAP.\n
      \n
      Another place where Wayland can be used straightaway is the desktop graphical login screen (which is the original reason it was created for anyway). It’s a singular application with reduced requirements and simplistic interactions.
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          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
          - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
          \n
          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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      +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
      +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
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      +body: """
        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
        \n
        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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        date: 2024-02-17 22:16:50.0 +01:00
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        5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2086
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          +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1403 …}
          +body: """
            > You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
            \n
            All I see is a rift in the community over one side pushing software that’s beta-quality at best, and acting very arrogant and dismissive towards real adoption impediments.\n
            \n
            Which is par for the course for Linux, naturally, but “it’s happening” is wishful thinking at this stage. At this rate and with this attitude it will take at least another 5 years.\n
            \n
            Wayland’s worst enemy is its own fans.
            """
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          +body: """
            “Linux” is not an entity with well defined goals, it’s a community that mostly does whatever it wants. That has the fortunate side effect of producing labors of love in software, that prove really useful in the real world. But it also ignores things like user experience, which affect things like the desktop the most.\n
            \n
            On Linux the user is a second-class citizen, because worth in the community is determined by how much a person contributes (in code, testing, artwork, documentation etc.)\n
            \n
            The Linux mindset is best expressed by a quote from Simon Travaglia (which I paraphrase because I don’t remember it verbatim): “We’re tasked with the well-being of the servers, not the users. They’re lucky we even let them log in since users technically *upset* the smooth operation of the servers.”
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            "@michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
            "@LeFantome@programming.dev"
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          +body: """
            I’m glad Wayland solves problems for you, but it creates them for others.\n
            \n
            Imagine being forced to go the other way. Could you be coerced into going back to Xorg? What would you do if a distro attempted to do that to you?
            """
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            date: 2023-11-19 22:21:07.0 +01:00
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            "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
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            "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
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          -id: 140989
          -bodyTs: "'attempt':39 'back':29 'coerc':26 'could':23 'creat':11 'distro':38 'forc':17 'glad':3 'go':19,28 'imagin':15 'm':2 'other':14 'problem':6 'solv':5 'way':22 'wayland':4 'would':33 'xorg':31"
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            date: 2023-11-19 22:21:07.0 +01:00
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          +"title": 140989
        }
        2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1363
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          +body: """
            You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
            \n
            Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
            """
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            "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
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          -id: 138758
          -bodyTs: "'adopt':44 'better':36 'come':40 'everyth':16 'featur':14 'fine':18 'forc':43 'forgot':2 'happen':28 'let':26 'll':39 'make':47 'natur':29 'need':9 'part':4 'peopl':23,48 'push':22 'readi':34 'reduc':13 'resent':49 'stop':21 'toward':24 'tri':41 'wayland':10,25 'work':17 'xorg':20"
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            date: 2023-11-19 03:09:37.0 +01:00
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          +"title": 138758
        }
        1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2312
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          +body: """
            > but why should AMD, Intel and NVIDIA care about Linux desktop\n
            \n
            They care because it’s free testing for their more lucrative Linux-based products. We’re their lab rats.
            """
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        0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2325}
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      -titleTs: "'articl':7 'boycott':5 'respons':2 'wayland':6"
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    +body: """
      They aren’t facts, again, they’re wishful thinking. I’m a long time contributor and developer and I can assure you that with things as complex as X and Wayland things would move slowly even if everybody was of the same mind, let alone in the “herding cats” style of FOSS.\n
      \n
      Wayland has been in development for 15 years and it’s still not ready – please, it’s not, and stomping our feet and claiming otherwise won’t make it so. Another 5 years will probably see it reach a more stable state.\n
      \n
      What do I mean by ready? Well the desktop stack [on Linux and *NIX] is extremely complex. Whenever you’re dealing with something extremely complex in software, over the years, you amass a large amount of solutions that solve real world problems. That’s what I call “ready”. Most of those solutions will be dealing with quirks and use cases which do not affect everybody equally, but they’re each crucial in their own way to a varying slice of the userbase.\n
      \n
      Whenever you rewrite something from scratch you throw away the bulk of those quirks. It’s a common fallacy for developers to look at the shiny new thing and think that it’s better. In reality it’s worthless without the quirks, and accumulating those quirks all over again takes a long time. X has been accumulating them for 40 years. Wayland is barely scratching the surface.\n
      \n
      The fact the protocol places and splits the burden over the various DE and WM teams will NOT help. We will need libraries that solve the same problem once instead of over and over, and most DE/WM will come to depend on those libraries. The end result will be eerily similar to X. Ironically, by the time Wayland will be done it will have spent a comparable time in development to X, and will have accumulated the same amount of baggage that people dislike about X.\n
      \n
      > What percentage of the Linux Desktop universe are you expecting will still be using X at the end of 2025?\n
      \n
      More or less the same that’s using X right now. GNOME, KDE and the various distros will get a bloody nose trying to force Wayland through but if that’s the only way they learn, so be it.\n
      \n
      The Steam Deck actually has one of the few use cases where Wayland actually makes sense, it’s a turnkey, highly controlled stack (both software and hardware) where users don’t have any reasons to care about what’s under the hood. I expect them to switch ASAP.\n
      \n
      Another place where Wayland can be used straightaway is the desktop graphical login screen (which is the original reason it was created for anyway). It’s a singular application with reduced requirements and simplistic interactions.
      """
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entry App\Twig\Components\EntryComponent 12.0 MiB 90.48 ms
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        From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
        \n
        Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).\n
        \n
        Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.\n
        \n
        ### Rules\n
        \n
        - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
        - No misinformation\n
        - No NSFW content\n
        - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
        \n
        ### Related Communities\n
        \n
        - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
        - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
        - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
        - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
        \n
        Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
        """
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    +body: """
      I have a simple wish, with a probably not so simple solution.\n
      \n
      I recently started with linux (Arch kde), I’m loving it, I quickly realized that this OS and almost all apps, are highly customizable, I’m laving that as well. My problem is the unavoidable reinstalls and that I have a laptop.\n
      \n
      Is there any way that I can save all my configs, apps and my apps’ configs, and transfer them over to my laptop, while almost having a very quick back-up. I realize that I could turn it into an ISO somehow, but that wouldn’t work (I think) because my laptop has vastly different hardware. I also realize the partitioning problem. So in my idealistic world, there should be a solution that requires a clean install (from scripts or manual) and some .sh file, that installs all my apps, pastes all my configs and reboots.\n
      \n
      So is this possible? and if yes, how should I go about this? did someone make a tool for this already? Or(!) can I burn it to a flash and the drivers will correct themselves/I’ll deal with them later?\n
      \n
      For final words I’d like to say that I’m far from finished configurating, but I’d like to know the proccess, to not shoot myself in the foot somewhere along the way of configing, thanks!
      """
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2351 …}
        +body: """
          You’re welcome.\n
          \n
          To clarify, /etc can have things that are relevant for the machine so you may want to back it up, but it’s not usually transferrable directly to another machine because it probably doesn’t play the exact same role. It has things like service configs, network configs etc.\n
          \n
          Even if you’re trying to migrate a machine to new hardware and the machine will play the same role it’s best to pick and choose files from /etc/ on a case by case basis. What I do is grab a tarball of /etc and set it aside, then if I need to redo something the same way it was on the old machine I can dig through the tarball and only use the relevant files.\n
          \n
          Like I said it’s extremely specific. For example if I want to reconfigure the SSH daemon that’s usually a couple of lines which I know by heart (turn root login and password logins off) which I can do by hand; if I want to reconfigure CUPS printing it’s best to use the CUPS admin interface to autodetect the printer, you don’t usually want to mess with its config files; for some things like /etc/fstab or NFS or RAID I *may* want to copy some stuff but edit the disk UUIDs; for some things like Samba I could in theory copy the config straight over. It varies.\n
          \n
          The list of installed packages may also be relevant when you migrate to a new machine. Different distros have different commands for obtaining a list of installed packages, and different ways of using that on the new machine to restore the same package selection. This is useful and typically can get you started much faster on the new machine.
          """
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          "@bizdelnick@lemmy.ml"
          "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
        ]
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        -bodyTs: "'/etc':6,82,97 '/etc/fstab':207 'admin':186 'also':246 'anoth':32 'asid':101 'autodetect':189 'back':21 'basi':88 'best':75,181 'case':85,87 'choos':79 'clarifi':5 'command':260 'config':49,51,201,235 'copi':216,233 'could':230 'coupl':151 'cup':177,185 'daemon':146 'differ':256,259,269 'dig':120 'direct':30 'disk':222 'distro':257 'doesn':37 'edit':220 'etc':52 'even':53 'exact':41 'exampl':138 'extrem':135 'faster':294 'file':80,129,202 'get':290 'grab':93 'hand':171 'hardwar':64 'heart':158 'instal':243,266 'interfac':187 'know':156 'like':47,130,206,227 'line':153 'list':241,264 'login':161,164 'machin':15,33,61,67,117,255,277,298 'may':18,213,245 'mess':198 'migrat':59,251 'much':293 'need':105 'network':50 'new':63,254,276,297 'nfs':209 'obtain':262 'old':116 'packag':244,267,282 'password':163 'pick':77 'play':39,69 'print':178 'printer':191 'probabl':36 'raid':211 're':2,56 'reconfigur':143,176 'redo':107 'relev':12,128,248 'restor':279 'role':43,72 'root':160 'said':132 'samba':228 'select':283 'servic':48 'set':99 'someth':108 'specif':136 'ssh':145 'start':292 'straight':236 'stuff':218 'tarbal':95,123 'theori':232 'thing':9,46,205,226 'transferr':29 'tri':57 'turn':159 'typic':288 'use':126,183,272,286 'usual':28,149,195 'uuid':223 'vari':239 'want':19,141,174,196,214 'way':111,270 'welcom':3"
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2330
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        +body: """
          > if I copy my /home (someone said /etc too) over to my laptop, and back it up as well, I’m golden?\n
          \n
          /home yes., but ideally only files and dirs starting with a dot (so called “dotfiles” under your home dir. `tar cvfa homedots.tar.gz /home/username/.??*` should take care of it.\n
          \n
          Please note it will include some large stuff that’s probably not needed, like .cache, or some individual caches for other apps that don’t use .cache, like the browsers.\n
          \n
          Don’t copy /etc, it’s usually machine-specific.\n
          \n
          > would different hostnames and usernames make a problem?\n
          \n
          Hostname no (if you don’t bring etc). Username technically yes, you may want to rename the home dir. The user id and group id are important too but usually off it’s the first user on the same distro it will receive the same ids (typically 1000 nowadays). If not, you can change that manually and recursively `chown 1000:1000 -r /home/username`.
          """
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          "@bizdelnick@lemmy.ml"
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        From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
        \n
        Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).\n
        \n
        Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.\n
        \n
        ### Rules\n
        \n
        - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
        - No misinformation\n
        - No NSFW content\n
        - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
        \n
        ### Related Communities\n
        \n
        - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
        - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
        - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
        - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
        \n
        Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
        """
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    +slug: "Package-up-and-transport-a-linux"
    +title: "Package up and transport a linux?"
    +url: null
    +body: """
      I have a simple wish, with a probably not so simple solution.\n
      \n
      I recently started with linux (Arch kde), I’m loving it, I quickly realized that this OS and almost all apps, are highly customizable, I’m laving that as well. My problem is the unavoidable reinstalls and that I have a laptop.\n
      \n
      Is there any way that I can save all my configs, apps and my apps’ configs, and transfer them over to my laptop, while almost having a very quick back-up. I realize that I could turn it into an ISO somehow, but that wouldn’t work (I think) because my laptop has vastly different hardware. I also realize the partitioning problem. So in my idealistic world, there should be a solution that requires a clean install (from scripts or manual) and some .sh file, that installs all my apps, pastes all my configs and reboots.\n
      \n
      So is this possible? and if yes, how should I go about this? did someone make a tool for this already? Or(!) can I burn it to a flash and the drivers will correct themselves/I’ll deal with them later?\n
      \n
      For final words I’d like to say that I’m far from finished configurating, but I’d like to know the proccess, to not shoot myself in the foot somewhere along the way of configing, thanks!
      """
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2338
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        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2348 …2}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2351 …}
        +body: """
          You’re welcome.\n
          \n
          To clarify, /etc can have things that are relevant for the machine so you may want to back it up, but it’s not usually transferrable directly to another machine because it probably doesn’t play the exact same role. It has things like service configs, network configs etc.\n
          \n
          Even if you’re trying to migrate a machine to new hardware and the machine will play the same role it’s best to pick and choose files from /etc/ on a case by case basis. What I do is grab a tarball of /etc and set it aside, then if I need to redo something the same way it was on the old machine I can dig through the tarball and only use the relevant files.\n
          \n
          Like I said it’s extremely specific. For example if I want to reconfigure the SSH daemon that’s usually a couple of lines which I know by heart (turn root login and password logins off) which I can do by hand; if I want to reconfigure CUPS printing it’s best to use the CUPS admin interface to autodetect the printer, you don’t usually want to mess with its config files; for some things like /etc/fstab or NFS or RAID I *may* want to copy some stuff but edit the disk UUIDs; for some things like Samba I could in theory copy the config straight over. It varies.\n
          \n
          The list of installed packages may also be relevant when you migrate to a new machine. Different distros have different commands for obtaining a list of installed packages, and different ways of using that on the new machine to restore the same package selection. This is useful and typically can get you started much faster on the new machine.
          """
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          "@UnRelatedBurner@sh.itjust.works"
          "@bizdelnick@lemmy.ml"
          "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
        ]
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        -id: 142346
        -bodyTs: "'/etc':6,82,97 '/etc/fstab':207 'admin':186 'also':246 'anoth':32 'asid':101 'autodetect':189 'back':21 'basi':88 'best':75,181 'case':85,87 'choos':79 'clarifi':5 'command':260 'config':49,51,201,235 'copi':216,233 'could':230 'coupl':151 'cup':177,185 'daemon':146 'differ':256,259,269 'dig':120 'direct':30 'disk':222 'distro':257 'doesn':37 'edit':220 'etc':52 'even':53 'exact':41 'exampl':138 'extrem':135 'faster':294 'file':80,129,202 'get':290 'grab':93 'hand':171 'hardwar':64 'heart':158 'instal':243,266 'interfac':187 'know':156 'like':47,130,206,227 'line':153 'list':241,264 'login':161,164 'machin':15,33,61,67,117,255,277,298 'may':18,213,245 'mess':198 'migrat':59,251 'much':293 'need':105 'network':50 'new':63,254,276,297 'nfs':209 'obtain':262 'old':116 'packag':244,267,282 'password':163 'pick':77 'play':39,69 'print':178 'printer':191 'probabl':36 'raid':211 're':2,56 'reconfigur':143,176 'redo':107 'relev':12,128,248 'restor':279 'role':43,72 'root':160 'said':132 'samba':228 'select':283 'servic':48 'set':99 'someth':108 'specif':136 'ssh':145 'start':292 'straight':236 'stuff':218 'tarbal':95,123 'theori':232 'thing':9,46,205,226 'transferr':29 'tri':57 'turn':159 'typic':288 'use':126,183,272,286 'usual':28,149,195 'uuid':223 'vari':239 'want':19,141,174,196,214 'way':111,270 'welcom':3"
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      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2330
        +user: App\Entity\User {#259}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2348 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …2}
        +image: null
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2351 …}
        +body: """
          > if I copy my /home (someone said /etc too) over to my laptop, and back it up as well, I’m golden?\n
          \n
          /home yes., but ideally only files and dirs starting with a dot (so called “dotfiles” under your home dir. `tar cvfa homedots.tar.gz /home/username/.??*` should take care of it.\n
          \n
          Please note it will include some large stuff that’s probably not needed, like .cache, or some individual caches for other apps that don’t use .cache, like the browsers.\n
          \n
          Don’t copy /etc, it’s usually machine-specific.\n
          \n
          > would different hostnames and usernames make a problem?\n
          \n
          Hostname no (if you don’t bring etc). Username technically yes, you may want to rename the home dir. The user id and group id are important too but usually off it’s the first user on the same distro it will receive the same ids (typically 1000 nowadays). If not, you can change that manually and recursively `chown 1000:1000 -r /home/username`.
          """
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          "@UnRelatedBurner@sh.itjust.works"
          "@bizdelnick@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2347 …}
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user_inline App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent 12.0 MiB 3.28 ms
Input props
[
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[]
Component
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date App\Twig\Components\DateComponent 12.0 MiB 0.21 ms
Input props
[
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]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateComponent {#8521
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}
date_edited App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent 12.0 MiB 0.11 ms
Input props
[
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]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent {#8575
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magazine_inline App\Twig\Components\MagazineInlineComponent 12.0 MiB 0.16 ms
Input props
[
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Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\MagazineInlineComponent {#8629
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vote App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent 12.0 MiB 0.48 ms
Input props
[
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        From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
        \n
        Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).\n
        \n
        Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.\n
        \n
        ### Rules\n
        \n
        - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
        - No misinformation\n
        - No NSFW content\n
        - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
        \n
        ### Related Communities\n
        \n
        - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
        - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
        - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
        - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
        \n
        Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
        """
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    +slug: "Package-up-and-transport-a-linux"
    +title: "Package up and transport a linux?"
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    +body: """
      I have a simple wish, with a probably not so simple solution.\n
      \n
      I recently started with linux (Arch kde), I’m loving it, I quickly realized that this OS and almost all apps, are highly customizable, I’m laving that as well. My problem is the unavoidable reinstalls and that I have a laptop.\n
      \n
      Is there any way that I can save all my configs, apps and my apps’ configs, and transfer them over to my laptop, while almost having a very quick back-up. I realize that I could turn it into an ISO somehow, but that wouldn’t work (I think) because my laptop has vastly different hardware. I also realize the partitioning problem. So in my idealistic world, there should be a solution that requires a clean install (from scripts or manual) and some .sh file, that installs all my apps, pastes all my configs and reboots.\n
      \n
      So is this possible? and if yes, how should I go about this? did someone make a tool for this already? Or(!) can I burn it to a flash and the drivers will correct themselves/I’ll deal with them later?\n
      \n
      For final words I’d like to say that I’m far from finished configurating, but I’d like to know the proccess, to not shoot myself in the foot somewhere along the way of configing, thanks!
      """
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        +body: """
          You’re welcome.\n
          \n
          To clarify, /etc can have things that are relevant for the machine so you may want to back it up, but it’s not usually transferrable directly to another machine because it probably doesn’t play the exact same role. It has things like service configs, network configs etc.\n
          \n
          Even if you’re trying to migrate a machine to new hardware and the machine will play the same role it’s best to pick and choose files from /etc/ on a case by case basis. What I do is grab a tarball of /etc and set it aside, then if I need to redo something the same way it was on the old machine I can dig through the tarball and only use the relevant files.\n
          \n
          Like I said it’s extremely specific. For example if I want to reconfigure the SSH daemon that’s usually a couple of lines which I know by heart (turn root login and password logins off) which I can do by hand; if I want to reconfigure CUPS printing it’s best to use the CUPS admin interface to autodetect the printer, you don’t usually want to mess with its config files; for some things like /etc/fstab or NFS or RAID I *may* want to copy some stuff but edit the disk UUIDs; for some things like Samba I could in theory copy the config straight over. It varies.\n
          \n
          The list of installed packages may also be relevant when you migrate to a new machine. Different distros have different commands for obtaining a list of installed packages, and different ways of using that on the new machine to restore the same package selection. This is useful and typically can get you started much faster on the new machine.
          """
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          "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
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          > if I copy my /home (someone said /etc too) over to my laptop, and back it up as well, I’m golden?\n
          \n
          /home yes., but ideally only files and dirs starting with a dot (so called “dotfiles” under your home dir. `tar cvfa homedots.tar.gz /home/username/.??*` should take care of it.\n
          \n
          Please note it will include some large stuff that’s probably not needed, like .cache, or some individual caches for other apps that don’t use .cache, like the browsers.\n
          \n
          Don’t copy /etc, it’s usually machine-specific.\n
          \n
          > would different hostnames and usernames make a problem?\n
          \n
          Hostname no (if you don’t bring etc). Username technically yes, you may want to rename the home dir. The user id and group id are important too but usually off it’s the first user on the same distro it will receive the same ids (typically 1000 nowadays). If not, you can change that manually and recursively `chown 1000:1000 -r /home/username`.
          """
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      +title: "linux"
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        From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
        \n
        Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).\n
        \n
        Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.\n
        \n
        ### Rules\n
        \n
        - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
        - No misinformation\n
        - No NSFW content\n
        - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
        \n
        ### Related Communities\n
        \n
        - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
        - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
        - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
        - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
        \n
        Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
        """
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    +slug: "Package-up-and-transport-a-linux"
    +title: "Package up and transport a linux?"
    +url: null
    +body: """
      I have a simple wish, with a probably not so simple solution.\n
      \n
      I recently started with linux (Arch kde), I’m loving it, I quickly realized that this OS and almost all apps, are highly customizable, I’m laving that as well. My problem is the unavoidable reinstalls and that I have a laptop.\n
      \n
      Is there any way that I can save all my configs, apps and my apps’ configs, and transfer them over to my laptop, while almost having a very quick back-up. I realize that I could turn it into an ISO somehow, but that wouldn’t work (I think) because my laptop has vastly different hardware. I also realize the partitioning problem. So in my idealistic world, there should be a solution that requires a clean install (from scripts or manual) and some .sh file, that installs all my apps, pastes all my configs and reboots.\n
      \n
      So is this possible? and if yes, how should I go about this? did someone make a tool for this already? Or(!) can I burn it to a flash and the drivers will correct themselves/I’ll deal with them later?\n
      \n
      For final words I’d like to say that I’m far from finished configurating, but I’d like to know the proccess, to not shoot myself in the foot somewhere along the way of configing, thanks!
      """
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2351 …}
        +body: """
          You’re welcome.\n
          \n
          To clarify, /etc can have things that are relevant for the machine so you may want to back it up, but it’s not usually transferrable directly to another machine because it probably doesn’t play the exact same role. It has things like service configs, network configs etc.\n
          \n
          Even if you’re trying to migrate a machine to new hardware and the machine will play the same role it’s best to pick and choose files from /etc/ on a case by case basis. What I do is grab a tarball of /etc and set it aside, then if I need to redo something the same way it was on the old machine I can dig through the tarball and only use the relevant files.\n
          \n
          Like I said it’s extremely specific. For example if I want to reconfigure the SSH daemon that’s usually a couple of lines which I know by heart (turn root login and password logins off) which I can do by hand; if I want to reconfigure CUPS printing it’s best to use the CUPS admin interface to autodetect the printer, you don’t usually want to mess with its config files; for some things like /etc/fstab or NFS or RAID I *may* want to copy some stuff but edit the disk UUIDs; for some things like Samba I could in theory copy the config straight over. It varies.\n
          \n
          The list of installed packages may also be relevant when you migrate to a new machine. Different distros have different commands for obtaining a list of installed packages, and different ways of using that on the new machine to restore the same package selection. This is useful and typically can get you started much faster on the new machine.
          """
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          "@bizdelnick@lemmy.ml"
          "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
        ]
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        -id: 142346
        -bodyTs: "'/etc':6,82,97 '/etc/fstab':207 'admin':186 'also':246 'anoth':32 'asid':101 'autodetect':189 'back':21 'basi':88 'best':75,181 'case':85,87 'choos':79 'clarifi':5 'command':260 'config':49,51,201,235 'copi':216,233 'could':230 'coupl':151 'cup':177,185 'daemon':146 'differ':256,259,269 'dig':120 'direct':30 'disk':222 'distro':257 'doesn':37 'edit':220 'etc':52 'even':53 'exact':41 'exampl':138 'extrem':135 'faster':294 'file':80,129,202 'get':290 'grab':93 'hand':171 'hardwar':64 'heart':158 'instal':243,266 'interfac':187 'know':156 'like':47,130,206,227 'line':153 'list':241,264 'login':161,164 'machin':15,33,61,67,117,255,277,298 'may':18,213,245 'mess':198 'migrat':59,251 'much':293 'need':105 'network':50 'new':63,254,276,297 'nfs':209 'obtain':262 'old':116 'packag':244,267,282 'password':163 'pick':77 'play':39,69 'print':178 'printer':191 'probabl':36 'raid':211 're':2,56 'reconfigur':143,176 'redo':107 'relev':12,128,248 'restor':279 'role':43,72 'root':160 'said':132 'samba':228 'select':283 'servic':48 'set':99 'someth':108 'specif':136 'ssh':145 'start':292 'straight':236 'stuff':218 'tarbal':95,123 'theori':232 'thing':9,46,205,226 'transferr':29 'tri':57 'turn':159 'typic':288 'use':126,183,272,286 'usual':28,149,195 'uuid':223 'vari':239 'want':19,141,174,196,214 'way':111,270 'welcom':3"
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2330
        +user: App\Entity\User {#259}
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        +body: """
          > if I copy my /home (someone said /etc too) over to my laptop, and back it up as well, I’m golden?\n
          \n
          /home yes., but ideally only files and dirs starting with a dot (so called “dotfiles” under your home dir. `tar cvfa homedots.tar.gz /home/username/.??*` should take care of it.\n
          \n
          Please note it will include some large stuff that’s probably not needed, like .cache, or some individual caches for other apps that don’t use .cache, like the browsers.\n
          \n
          Don’t copy /etc, it’s usually machine-specific.\n
          \n
          > would different hostnames and usernames make a problem?\n
          \n
          Hostname no (if you don’t bring etc). Username technically yes, you may want to rename the home dir. The user id and group id are important too but usually off it’s the first user on the same distro it will receive the same ids (typically 1000 nowadays). If not, you can change that manually and recursively `chown 1000:1000 -r /home/username`.
          """
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        From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
        \n
        Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).\n
        \n
        Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.\n
        \n
        ### Rules\n
        \n
        - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
        - No misinformation\n
        - No NSFW content\n
        - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
        \n
        ### Related Communities\n
        \n
        - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
        - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
        - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
        - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
        \n
        Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
        """
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    +slug: "Package-up-and-transport-a-linux"
    +title: "Package up and transport a linux?"
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    +body: """
      I have a simple wish, with a probably not so simple solution.\n
      \n
      I recently started with linux (Arch kde), I’m loving it, I quickly realized that this OS and almost all apps, are highly customizable, I’m laving that as well. My problem is the unavoidable reinstalls and that I have a laptop.\n
      \n
      Is there any way that I can save all my configs, apps and my apps’ configs, and transfer them over to my laptop, while almost having a very quick back-up. I realize that I could turn it into an ISO somehow, but that wouldn’t work (I think) because my laptop has vastly different hardware. I also realize the partitioning problem. So in my idealistic world, there should be a solution that requires a clean install (from scripts or manual) and some .sh file, that installs all my apps, pastes all my configs and reboots.\n
      \n
      So is this possible? and if yes, how should I go about this? did someone make a tool for this already? Or(!) can I burn it to a flash and the drivers will correct themselves/I’ll deal with them later?\n
      \n
      For final words I’d like to say that I’m far from finished configurating, but I’d like to know the proccess, to not shoot myself in the foot somewhere along the way of configing, thanks!
      """
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        +body: """
          You’re welcome.\n
          \n
          To clarify, /etc can have things that are relevant for the machine so you may want to back it up, but it’s not usually transferrable directly to another machine because it probably doesn’t play the exact same role. It has things like service configs, network configs etc.\n
          \n
          Even if you’re trying to migrate a machine to new hardware and the machine will play the same role it’s best to pick and choose files from /etc/ on a case by case basis. What I do is grab a tarball of /etc and set it aside, then if I need to redo something the same way it was on the old machine I can dig through the tarball and only use the relevant files.\n
          \n
          Like I said it’s extremely specific. For example if I want to reconfigure the SSH daemon that’s usually a couple of lines which I know by heart (turn root login and password logins off) which I can do by hand; if I want to reconfigure CUPS printing it’s best to use the CUPS admin interface to autodetect the printer, you don’t usually want to mess with its config files; for some things like /etc/fstab or NFS or RAID I *may* want to copy some stuff but edit the disk UUIDs; for some things like Samba I could in theory copy the config straight over. It varies.\n
          \n
          The list of installed packages may also be relevant when you migrate to a new machine. Different distros have different commands for obtaining a list of installed packages, and different ways of using that on the new machine to restore the same package selection. This is useful and typically can get you started much faster on the new machine.
          """
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          "@bizdelnick@lemmy.ml"
          "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
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        +body: """
          > if I copy my /home (someone said /etc too) over to my laptop, and back it up as well, I’m golden?\n
          \n
          /home yes., but ideally only files and dirs starting with a dot (so called “dotfiles” under your home dir. `tar cvfa homedots.tar.gz /home/username/.??*` should take care of it.\n
          \n
          Please note it will include some large stuff that’s probably not needed, like .cache, or some individual caches for other apps that don’t use .cache, like the browsers.\n
          \n
          Don’t copy /etc, it’s usually machine-specific.\n
          \n
          > would different hostnames and usernames make a problem?\n
          \n
          Hostname no (if you don’t bring etc). Username technically yes, you may want to rename the home dir. The user id and group id are important too but usually off it’s the first user on the same distro it will receive the same ids (typically 1000 nowadays). If not, you can change that manually and recursively `chown 1000:1000 -r /home/username`.
          """
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      +name: "linux@lemmy.ml"
      +title: "linux"
      +description: """
        From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
        \n
        Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).\n
        \n
        Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.\n
        \n
        ### Rules\n
        \n
        - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
        - No misinformation\n
        - No NSFW content\n
        - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
        \n
        ### Related Communities\n
        \n
        - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
        - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
        - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
        - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
        \n
        Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
        """
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    +body: """
      I have a simple wish, with a probably not so simple solution.\n
      \n
      I recently started with linux (Arch kde), I’m loving it, I quickly realized that this OS and almost all apps, are highly customizable, I’m laving that as well. My problem is the unavoidable reinstalls and that I have a laptop.\n
      \n
      Is there any way that I can save all my configs, apps and my apps’ configs, and transfer them over to my laptop, while almost having a very quick back-up. I realize that I could turn it into an ISO somehow, but that wouldn’t work (I think) because my laptop has vastly different hardware. I also realize the partitioning problem. So in my idealistic world, there should be a solution that requires a clean install (from scripts or manual) and some .sh file, that installs all my apps, pastes all my configs and reboots.\n
      \n
      So is this possible? and if yes, how should I go about this? did someone make a tool for this already? Or(!) can I burn it to a flash and the drivers will correct themselves/I’ll deal with them later?\n
      \n
      For final words I’d like to say that I’m far from finished configurating, but I’d like to know the proccess, to not shoot myself in the foot somewhere along the way of configing, thanks!
      """
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        +body: """
          You’re welcome.\n
          \n
          To clarify, /etc can have things that are relevant for the machine so you may want to back it up, but it’s not usually transferrable directly to another machine because it probably doesn’t play the exact same role. It has things like service configs, network configs etc.\n
          \n
          Even if you’re trying to migrate a machine to new hardware and the machine will play the same role it’s best to pick and choose files from /etc/ on a case by case basis. What I do is grab a tarball of /etc and set it aside, then if I need to redo something the same way it was on the old machine I can dig through the tarball and only use the relevant files.\n
          \n
          Like I said it’s extremely specific. For example if I want to reconfigure the SSH daemon that’s usually a couple of lines which I know by heart (turn root login and password logins off) which I can do by hand; if I want to reconfigure CUPS printing it’s best to use the CUPS admin interface to autodetect the printer, you don’t usually want to mess with its config files; for some things like /etc/fstab or NFS or RAID I *may* want to copy some stuff but edit the disk UUIDs; for some things like Samba I could in theory copy the config straight over. It varies.\n
          \n
          The list of installed packages may also be relevant when you migrate to a new machine. Different distros have different commands for obtaining a list of installed packages, and different ways of using that on the new machine to restore the same package selection. This is useful and typically can get you started much faster on the new machine.
          """
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        +body: """
          > if I copy my /home (someone said /etc too) over to my laptop, and back it up as well, I’m golden?\n
          \n
          /home yes., but ideally only files and dirs starting with a dot (so called “dotfiles” under your home dir. `tar cvfa homedots.tar.gz /home/username/.??*` should take care of it.\n
          \n
          Please note it will include some large stuff that’s probably not needed, like .cache, or some individual caches for other apps that don’t use .cache, like the browsers.\n
          \n
          Don’t copy /etc, it’s usually machine-specific.\n
          \n
          > would different hostnames and usernames make a problem?\n
          \n
          Hostname no (if you don’t bring etc). Username technically yes, you may want to rename the home dir. The user id and group id are important too but usually off it’s the first user on the same distro it will receive the same ids (typically 1000 nowadays). If not, you can change that manually and recursively `chown 1000:1000 -r /home/username`.
          """
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          \n
          Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).\n
          \n
          Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.\n
          \n
          ### Rules\n
          \n
          - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
          - No misinformation\n
          - No NSFW content\n
          - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
          \n
          ### Related Communities\n
          \n
          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
          - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
          \n
          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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      +slug: "Package-up-and-transport-a-linux"
      +title: "Package up and transport a linux?"
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        I have a simple wish, with a probably not so simple solution.\n
        \n
        I recently started with linux (Arch kde), I’m loving it, I quickly realized that this OS and almost all apps, are highly customizable, I’m laving that as well. My problem is the unavoidable reinstalls and that I have a laptop.\n
        \n
        Is there any way that I can save all my configs, apps and my apps’ configs, and transfer them over to my laptop, while almost having a very quick back-up. I realize that I could turn it into an ISO somehow, but that wouldn’t work (I think) because my laptop has vastly different hardware. I also realize the partitioning problem. So in my idealistic world, there should be a solution that requires a clean install (from scripts or manual) and some .sh file, that installs all my apps, pastes all my configs and reboots.\n
        \n
        So is this possible? and if yes, how should I go about this? did someone make a tool for this already? Or(!) can I burn it to a flash and the drivers will correct themselves/I’ll deal with them later?\n
        \n
        For final words I’d like to say that I’m far from finished configurating, but I’d like to know the proccess, to not shoot myself in the foot somewhere along the way of configing, thanks!
        """
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            > if I copy my /home (someone said /etc too) over to my laptop, and back it up as well, I’m golden?\n
            \n
            /home yes., but ideally only files and dirs starting with a dot (so called “dotfiles” under your home dir. `tar cvfa homedots.tar.gz /home/username/.??*` should take care of it.\n
            \n
            Please note it will include some large stuff that’s probably not needed, like .cache, or some individual caches for other apps that don’t use .cache, like the browsers.\n
            \n
            Don’t copy /etc, it’s usually machine-specific.\n
            \n
            > would different hostnames and usernames make a problem?\n
            \n
            Hostname no (if you don’t bring etc). Username technically yes, you may want to rename the home dir. The user id and group id are important too but usually off it’s the first user on the same distro it will receive the same ids (typically 1000 nowadays). If not, you can change that manually and recursively `chown 1000:1000 -r /home/username`.
            """
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    +body: """
      You’re welcome.\n
      \n
      To clarify, /etc can have things that are relevant for the machine so you may want to back it up, but it’s not usually transferrable directly to another machine because it probably doesn’t play the exact same role. It has things like service configs, network configs etc.\n
      \n
      Even if you’re trying to migrate a machine to new hardware and the machine will play the same role it’s best to pick and choose files from /etc/ on a case by case basis. What I do is grab a tarball of /etc and set it aside, then if I need to redo something the same way it was on the old machine I can dig through the tarball and only use the relevant files.\n
      \n
      Like I said it’s extremely specific. For example if I want to reconfigure the SSH daemon that’s usually a couple of lines which I know by heart (turn root login and password logins off) which I can do by hand; if I want to reconfigure CUPS printing it’s best to use the CUPS admin interface to autodetect the printer, you don’t usually want to mess with its config files; for some things like /etc/fstab or NFS or RAID I *may* want to copy some stuff but edit the disk UUIDs; for some things like Samba I could in theory copy the config straight over. It varies.\n
      \n
      The list of installed packages may also be relevant when you migrate to a new machine. Different distros have different commands for obtaining a list of installed packages, and different ways of using that on the new machine to restore the same package selection. This is useful and typically can get you started much faster on the new machine.
      """
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          From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
          \n
          Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).\n
          \n
          Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.\n
          \n
          ### Rules\n
          \n
          - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
          - No misinformation\n
          - No NSFW content\n
          - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
          \n
          ### Related Communities\n
          \n
          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
          - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
          \n
          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
          """
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      +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2956 …}
      +slug: "Package-up-and-transport-a-linux"
      +title: "Package up and transport a linux?"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        I have a simple wish, with a probably not so simple solution.\n
        \n
        I recently started with linux (Arch kde), I’m loving it, I quickly realized that this OS and almost all apps, are highly customizable, I’m laving that as well. My problem is the unavoidable reinstalls and that I have a laptop.\n
        \n
        Is there any way that I can save all my configs, apps and my apps’ configs, and transfer them over to my laptop, while almost having a very quick back-up. I realize that I could turn it into an ISO somehow, but that wouldn’t work (I think) because my laptop has vastly different hardware. I also realize the partitioning problem. So in my idealistic world, there should be a solution that requires a clean install (from scripts or manual) and some .sh file, that installs all my apps, pastes all my configs and reboots.\n
        \n
        So is this possible? and if yes, how should I go about this? did someone make a tool for this already? Or(!) can I burn it to a flash and the drivers will correct themselves/I’ll deal with them later?\n
        \n
        For final words I’d like to say that I’m far from finished configurating, but I’d like to know the proccess, to not shoot myself in the foot somewhere along the way of configing, thanks!
        """
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        1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2338}
        0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2330
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          +body: """
            > if I copy my /home (someone said /etc too) over to my laptop, and back it up as well, I’m golden?\n
            \n
            /home yes., but ideally only files and dirs starting with a dot (so called “dotfiles” under your home dir. `tar cvfa homedots.tar.gz /home/username/.??*` should take care of it.\n
            \n
            Please note it will include some large stuff that’s probably not needed, like .cache, or some individual caches for other apps that don’t use .cache, like the browsers.\n
            \n
            Don’t copy /etc, it’s usually machine-specific.\n
            \n
            > would different hostnames and usernames make a problem?\n
            \n
            Hostname no (if you don’t bring etc). Username technically yes, you may want to rename the home dir. The user id and group id are important too but usually off it’s the first user on the same distro it will receive the same ids (typically 1000 nowadays). If not, you can change that manually and recursively `chown 1000:1000 -r /home/username`.
            """
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    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …2}
    +image: null
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    +body: """
      You’re welcome.\n
      \n
      To clarify, /etc can have things that are relevant for the machine so you may want to back it up, but it’s not usually transferrable directly to another machine because it probably doesn’t play the exact same role. It has things like service configs, network configs etc.\n
      \n
      Even if you’re trying to migrate a machine to new hardware and the machine will play the same role it’s best to pick and choose files from /etc/ on a case by case basis. What I do is grab a tarball of /etc and set it aside, then if I need to redo something the same way it was on the old machine I can dig through the tarball and only use the relevant files.\n
      \n
      Like I said it’s extremely specific. For example if I want to reconfigure the SSH daemon that’s usually a couple of lines which I know by heart (turn root login and password logins off) which I can do by hand; if I want to reconfigure CUPS printing it’s best to use the CUPS admin interface to autodetect the printer, you don’t usually want to mess with its config files; for some things like /etc/fstab or NFS or RAID I *may* want to copy some stuff but edit the disk UUIDs; for some things like Samba I could in theory copy the config straight over. It varies.\n
      \n
      The list of installed packages may also be relevant when you migrate to a new machine. Different distros have different commands for obtaining a list of installed packages, and different ways of using that on the new machine to restore the same package selection. This is useful and typically can get you started much faster on the new machine.
      """
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user_inline App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent 12.0 MiB 0.20 ms
Input props
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[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent {#9038
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    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1602 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1768 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1862 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1836 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1846 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1831 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2410 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1955 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2399 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1911 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1914 …}
    +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1884 …}
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    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1950 …}
    +apId: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +apProfileId: "https://feddit.nl/u/lemmyvore"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://feddit.nl/u/lemmyvore"
    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://feddit.nl/inbox"
    +apDomain: "feddit.nl"
    +apPreferredUsername: "lemmyvore"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1727039733 {#272
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    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687169920 {#269
      date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  +showAvatar: false
}
date App\Twig\Components\DateComponent 12.0 MiB 0.18 ms
Input props
[
  "date" => DateTimeImmutable @1700470013 {#2339
    date: 2023-11-20 09:46:53.0 +01:00
  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateComponent {#9094
  +date: DateTimeImmutable @1700470013 {#2339
    date: 2023-11-20 09:46:53.0 +01:00
  }
}
date_edited App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent 12.0 MiB 0.11 ms
Input props
[
  "createdAt" => DateTimeImmutable @1700470013 {#2339
    date: 2023-11-20 09:46:53.0 +01:00
  }
  "editedAt" => null
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent {#9148
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700470013 {#2339
    date: 2023-11-20 09:46:53.0 +01:00
  }
  +editedAt: null
}
user_avatar App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent 12.0 MiB 0.18 ms
Input props
[
  "user" => App\Entity\User {#259
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +username: "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1727573233 {#267
      date: 2024-09-29 03:27:13.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
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    +oauthFacebookId: null
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    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
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    +featuredMagazines: null
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    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
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    +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
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    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
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    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#231 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#161 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#134 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#104 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#77 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#92 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1816 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1851 …}
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    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1602 …}
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    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1836 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1846 …}
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    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1950 …}
    +apId: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
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    +apInboxUrl: "https://feddit.nl/inbox"
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    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1727039733 {#272
      date: 2024-09-22 23:15:33.0 +02:00
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    +apDeletedAt: null
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    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687169920 {#269
      date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  "width" => 40
  "height" => 40
  "asLink" => true
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent {#9202
  +width: 40
  +height: 40
  +user: App\Entity\User {#259
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
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    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1727573233 {#267
      date: 2024-09-29 03:27:13.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
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    +hideAdult: true
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    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
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    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
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    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
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    -totpSecret: null
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    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1950 …}
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    +privateKey: null
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      date: 2024-09-22 23:15:33.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
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    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687169920 {#269
      date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  +asLink: true
}
vote App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent 12.0 MiB 0.64 ms
Input props
[
  "subject" => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2338
    +user: App\Entity\User {#259
      +avatar: null
      +cover: null
      +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
      +username: "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
      +roles: []
      +followersCount: 0
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      +lastActive: DateTime @1727573233 {#267
        date: 2024-09-29 03:27:13.0 +02:00
      }
      +markedForDeletionAt: null
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      +isBot: false
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      +customCss: null
      +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
      +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
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      +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
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      -totpSecret: null
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      -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1950 …}
      +apId: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
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      +privateKey: null
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      +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1727039733 {#272
        date: 2024-09-22 23:15:33.0 +02:00
      }
      +apDeletedAt: null
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      +visibility: "visible             "
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687169920 {#269
        date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
      }
    }
    +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2348
      +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2543
        +avatar: null
        +cover: null
        +email: "UnRelatedBurner@sh.itjust.works"
        +username: "@UnRelatedBurner@sh.itjust.works"
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          date: 2024-09-16 15:15:13.0 +02:00
        }
        +markedForDeletionAt: null
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        +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#8448 …}
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        +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#8456 …}
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          date: 2024-09-18 00:31:38.0 +02:00
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        +apDeletedAt: null
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          date: 2023-07-11 04:21:38.0 +02:00
        }
        +__isInitialized__: true
         …2
      }
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585
        +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#4079 …}
        +name: "linux@lemmy.ml"
        +title: "linux"
        +description: """
          From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
          \n
          Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).\n
          \n
          Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.\n
          \n
          ### Rules\n
          \n
          - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
          - No misinformation\n
          - No NSFW content\n
          - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
          \n
          ### Related Communities\n
          \n
          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
          - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
          \n
          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
          """
        +rules: null
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          date: 2024-09-29 03:21:04.643949 UTC (+00:00)
        }
        +markedForDeletionAt: null
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        -id: 73
        +apId: "linux@lemmy.ml"
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        +apDiscoverable: true
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        +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1727580691 {#4077
          date: 2024-09-29 03:31:31.538658 UTC (+00:00)
        }
        +apDeletedAt: null
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          date: 2023-11-02 13:51:08.0 +01:00
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        +__isInitialized__: true
         …2
      }
      +image: null
      +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2956 …}
      +slug: "Package-up-and-transport-a-linux"
      +title: "Package up and transport a linux?"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        I have a simple wish, with a probably not so simple solution.\n
        \n
        I recently started with linux (Arch kde), I’m loving it, I quickly realized that this OS and almost all apps, are highly customizable, I’m laving that as well. My problem is the unavoidable reinstalls and that I have a laptop.\n
        \n
        Is there any way that I can save all my configs, apps and my apps’ configs, and transfer them over to my laptop, while almost having a very quick back-up. I realize that I could turn it into an ISO somehow, but that wouldn’t work (I think) because my laptop has vastly different hardware. I also realize the partitioning problem. So in my idealistic world, there should be a solution that requires a clean install (from scripts or manual) and some .sh file, that installs all my apps, pastes all my configs and reboots.\n
        \n
        So is this possible? and if yes, how should I go about this? did someone make a tool for this already? Or(!) can I burn it to a flash and the drivers will correct themselves/I’ll deal with them later?\n
        \n
        For final words I’d like to say that I’m far from finished configurating, but I’d like to know the proccess, to not shoot myself in the foot somewhere along the way of configing, thanks!
        """
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            > if I copy my /home (someone said /etc too) over to my laptop, and back it up as well, I’m golden?\n
            \n
            /home yes., but ideally only files and dirs starting with a dot (so called “dotfiles” under your home dir. `tar cvfa homedots.tar.gz /home/username/.??*` should take care of it.\n
            \n
            Please note it will include some large stuff that’s probably not needed, like .cache, or some individual caches for other apps that don’t use .cache, like the browsers.\n
            \n
            Don’t copy /etc, it’s usually machine-specific.\n
            \n
            > would different hostnames and usernames make a problem?\n
            \n
            Hostname no (if you don’t bring etc). Username technically yes, you may want to rename the home dir. The user id and group id are important too but usually off it’s the first user on the same distro it will receive the same ids (typically 1000 nowadays). If not, you can change that manually and recursively `chown 1000:1000 -r /home/username`.
            """
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    +body: """
      You’re welcome.\n
      \n
      To clarify, /etc can have things that are relevant for the machine so you may want to back it up, but it’s not usually transferrable directly to another machine because it probably doesn’t play the exact same role. It has things like service configs, network configs etc.\n
      \n
      Even if you’re trying to migrate a machine to new hardware and the machine will play the same role it’s best to pick and choose files from /etc/ on a case by case basis. What I do is grab a tarball of /etc and set it aside, then if I need to redo something the same way it was on the old machine I can dig through the tarball and only use the relevant files.\n
      \n
      Like I said it’s extremely specific. For example if I want to reconfigure the SSH daemon that’s usually a couple of lines which I know by heart (turn root login and password logins off) which I can do by hand; if I want to reconfigure CUPS printing it’s best to use the CUPS admin interface to autodetect the printer, you don’t usually want to mess with its config files; for some things like /etc/fstab or NFS or RAID I *may* want to copy some stuff but edit the disk UUIDs; for some things like Samba I could in theory copy the config straight over. It varies.\n
      \n
      The list of installed packages may also be relevant when you migrate to a new machine. Different distros have different commands for obtaining a list of installed packages, and different ways of using that on the new machine to restore the same package selection. This is useful and typically can get you started much faster on the new machine.
      """
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          \n
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          - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
          \n
          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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      +slug: "Package-up-and-transport-a-linux"
      +title: "Package up and transport a linux?"
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      +body: """
        I have a simple wish, with a probably not so simple solution.\n
        \n
        I recently started with linux (Arch kde), I’m loving it, I quickly realized that this OS and almost all apps, are highly customizable, I’m laving that as well. My problem is the unavoidable reinstalls and that I have a laptop.\n
        \n
        Is there any way that I can save all my configs, apps and my apps’ configs, and transfer them over to my laptop, while almost having a very quick back-up. I realize that I could turn it into an ISO somehow, but that wouldn’t work (I think) because my laptop has vastly different hardware. I also realize the partitioning problem. So in my idealistic world, there should be a solution that requires a clean install (from scripts or manual) and some .sh file, that installs all my apps, pastes all my configs and reboots.\n
        \n
        So is this possible? and if yes, how should I go about this? did someone make a tool for this already? Or(!) can I burn it to a flash and the drivers will correct themselves/I’ll deal with them later?\n
        \n
        For final words I’d like to say that I’m far from finished configurating, but I’d like to know the proccess, to not shoot myself in the foot somewhere along the way of configing, thanks!
        """
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        1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2338}
        0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2330
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          +body: """
            > if I copy my /home (someone said /etc too) over to my laptop, and back it up as well, I’m golden?\n
            \n
            /home yes., but ideally only files and dirs starting with a dot (so called “dotfiles” under your home dir. `tar cvfa homedots.tar.gz /home/username/.??*` should take care of it.\n
            \n
            Please note it will include some large stuff that’s probably not needed, like .cache, or some individual caches for other apps that don’t use .cache, like the browsers.\n
            \n
            Don’t copy /etc, it’s usually machine-specific.\n
            \n
            > would different hostnames and usernames make a problem?\n
            \n
            Hostname no (if you don’t bring etc). Username technically yes, you may want to rename the home dir. The user id and group id are important too but usually off it’s the first user on the same distro it will receive the same ids (typically 1000 nowadays). If not, you can change that manually and recursively `chown 1000:1000 -r /home/username`.
            """
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    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …2}
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    +body: """
      You’re welcome.\n
      \n
      To clarify, /etc can have things that are relevant for the machine so you may want to back it up, but it’s not usually transferrable directly to another machine because it probably doesn’t play the exact same role. It has things like service configs, network configs etc.\n
      \n
      Even if you’re trying to migrate a machine to new hardware and the machine will play the same role it’s best to pick and choose files from /etc/ on a case by case basis. What I do is grab a tarball of /etc and set it aside, then if I need to redo something the same way it was on the old machine I can dig through the tarball and only use the relevant files.\n
      \n
      Like I said it’s extremely specific. For example if I want to reconfigure the SSH daemon that’s usually a couple of lines which I know by heart (turn root login and password logins off) which I can do by hand; if I want to reconfigure CUPS printing it’s best to use the CUPS admin interface to autodetect the printer, you don’t usually want to mess with its config files; for some things like /etc/fstab or NFS or RAID I *may* want to copy some stuff but edit the disk UUIDs; for some things like Samba I could in theory copy the config straight over. It varies.\n
      \n
      The list of installed packages may also be relevant when you migrate to a new machine. Different distros have different commands for obtaining a list of installed packages, and different ways of using that on the new machine to restore the same package selection. This is useful and typically can get you started much faster on the new machine.
      """
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  -cache: Symfony\Component\Cache\Adapter\TraceableTagAwareAdapter {#600 …}
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boost App\Twig\Components\BoostComponent 12.0 MiB 1.17 ms
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          From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
          \n
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          \n
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          \n
          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
          - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
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          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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      +body: """
        I have a simple wish, with a probably not so simple solution.\n
        \n
        I recently started with linux (Arch kde), I’m loving it, I quickly realized that this OS and almost all apps, are highly customizable, I’m laving that as well. My problem is the unavoidable reinstalls and that I have a laptop.\n
        \n
        Is there any way that I can save all my configs, apps and my apps’ configs, and transfer them over to my laptop, while almost having a very quick back-up. I realize that I could turn it into an ISO somehow, but that wouldn’t work (I think) because my laptop has vastly different hardware. I also realize the partitioning problem. So in my idealistic world, there should be a solution that requires a clean install (from scripts or manual) and some .sh file, that installs all my apps, pastes all my configs and reboots.\n
        \n
        So is this possible? and if yes, how should I go about this? did someone make a tool for this already? Or(!) can I burn it to a flash and the drivers will correct themselves/I’ll deal with them later?\n
        \n
        For final words I’d like to say that I’m far from finished configurating, but I’d like to know the proccess, to not shoot myself in the foot somewhere along the way of configing, thanks!
        """
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        0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2330
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          +body: """
            > if I copy my /home (someone said /etc too) over to my laptop, and back it up as well, I’m golden?\n
            \n
            /home yes., but ideally only files and dirs starting with a dot (so called “dotfiles” under your home dir. `tar cvfa homedots.tar.gz /home/username/.??*` should take care of it.\n
            \n
            Please note it will include some large stuff that’s probably not needed, like .cache, or some individual caches for other apps that don’t use .cache, like the browsers.\n
            \n
            Don’t copy /etc, it’s usually machine-specific.\n
            \n
            > would different hostnames and usernames make a problem?\n
            \n
            Hostname no (if you don’t bring etc). Username technically yes, you may want to rename the home dir. The user id and group id are important too but usually off it’s the first user on the same distro it will receive the same ids (typically 1000 nowadays). If not, you can change that manually and recursively `chown 1000:1000 -r /home/username`.
            """
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    +body: """
      You’re welcome.\n
      \n
      To clarify, /etc can have things that are relevant for the machine so you may want to back it up, but it’s not usually transferrable directly to another machine because it probably doesn’t play the exact same role. It has things like service configs, network configs etc.\n
      \n
      Even if you’re trying to migrate a machine to new hardware and the machine will play the same role it’s best to pick and choose files from /etc/ on a case by case basis. What I do is grab a tarball of /etc and set it aside, then if I need to redo something the same way it was on the old machine I can dig through the tarball and only use the relevant files.\n
      \n
      Like I said it’s extremely specific. For example if I want to reconfigure the SSH daemon that’s usually a couple of lines which I know by heart (turn root login and password logins off) which I can do by hand; if I want to reconfigure CUPS printing it’s best to use the CUPS admin interface to autodetect the printer, you don’t usually want to mess with its config files; for some things like /etc/fstab or NFS or RAID I *may* want to copy some stuff but edit the disk UUIDs; for some things like Samba I could in theory copy the config straight over. It varies.\n
      \n
      The list of installed packages may also be relevant when you migrate to a new machine. Different distros have different commands for obtaining a list of installed packages, and different ways of using that on the new machine to restore the same package selection. This is useful and typically can get you started much faster on the new machine.
      """
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        +description: """
          From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
          \n
          Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).\n
          \n
          Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.\n
          \n
          ### Rules\n
          \n
          - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
          - No misinformation\n
          - No NSFW content\n
          - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
          \n
          ### Related Communities\n
          \n
          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
          - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
          \n
          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
          """
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      +slug: "Package-up-and-transport-a-linux"
      +title: "Package up and transport a linux?"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        I have a simple wish, with a probably not so simple solution.\n
        \n
        I recently started with linux (Arch kde), I’m loving it, I quickly realized that this OS and almost all apps, are highly customizable, I’m laving that as well. My problem is the unavoidable reinstalls and that I have a laptop.\n
        \n
        Is there any way that I can save all my configs, apps and my apps’ configs, and transfer them over to my laptop, while almost having a very quick back-up. I realize that I could turn it into an ISO somehow, but that wouldn’t work (I think) because my laptop has vastly different hardware. I also realize the partitioning problem. So in my idealistic world, there should be a solution that requires a clean install (from scripts or manual) and some .sh file, that installs all my apps, pastes all my configs and reboots.\n
        \n
        So is this possible? and if yes, how should I go about this? did someone make a tool for this already? Or(!) can I burn it to a flash and the drivers will correct themselves/I’ll deal with them later?\n
        \n
        For final words I’d like to say that I’m far from finished configurating, but I’d like to know the proccess, to not shoot myself in the foot somewhere along the way of configing, thanks!
        """
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        1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2338}
        0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2330
          +user: App\Entity\User {#259}
          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2348 …2}
          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …2}
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          +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2346 …}
          +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2351 …}
          +body: """
            > if I copy my /home (someone said /etc too) over to my laptop, and back it up as well, I’m golden?\n
            \n
            /home yes., but ideally only files and dirs starting with a dot (so called “dotfiles” under your home dir. `tar cvfa homedots.tar.gz /home/username/.??*` should take care of it.\n
            \n
            Please note it will include some large stuff that’s probably not needed, like .cache, or some individual caches for other apps that don’t use .cache, like the browsers.\n
            \n
            Don’t copy /etc, it’s usually machine-specific.\n
            \n
            > would different hostnames and usernames make a problem?\n
            \n
            Hostname no (if you don’t bring etc). Username technically yes, you may want to rename the home dir. The user id and group id are important too but usually off it’s the first user on the same distro it will receive the same ids (typically 1000 nowadays). If not, you can change that manually and recursively `chown 1000:1000 -r /home/username`.
            """
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    +body: """
      You’re welcome.\n
      \n
      To clarify, /etc can have things that are relevant for the machine so you may want to back it up, but it’s not usually transferrable directly to another machine because it probably doesn’t play the exact same role. It has things like service configs, network configs etc.\n
      \n
      Even if you’re trying to migrate a machine to new hardware and the machine will play the same role it’s best to pick and choose files from /etc/ on a case by case basis. What I do is grab a tarball of /etc and set it aside, then if I need to redo something the same way it was on the old machine I can dig through the tarball and only use the relevant files.\n
      \n
      Like I said it’s extremely specific. For example if I want to reconfigure the SSH daemon that’s usually a couple of lines which I know by heart (turn root login and password logins off) which I can do by hand; if I want to reconfigure CUPS printing it’s best to use the CUPS admin interface to autodetect the printer, you don’t usually want to mess with its config files; for some things like /etc/fstab or NFS or RAID I *may* want to copy some stuff but edit the disk UUIDs; for some things like Samba I could in theory copy the config straight over. It varies.\n
      \n
      The list of installed packages may also be relevant when you migrate to a new machine. Different distros have different commands for obtaining a list of installed packages, and different ways of using that on the new machine to restore the same package selection. This is useful and typically can get you started much faster on the new machine.
      """
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entry_comment App\Twig\Components\EntryCommentComponent 12.0 MiB 41.64 ms
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          From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
          \n
          Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).\n
          \n
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          \n
          ### Rules\n
          \n
          - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
          - No misinformation\n
          - No NSFW content\n
          - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
          \n
          ### Related Communities\n
          \n
          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
          - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
          \n
          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
          """
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      +slug: "Package-up-and-transport-a-linux"
      +title: "Package up and transport a linux?"
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      +body: """
        I have a simple wish, with a probably not so simple solution.\n
        \n
        I recently started with linux (Arch kde), I’m loving it, I quickly realized that this OS and almost all apps, are highly customizable, I’m laving that as well. My problem is the unavoidable reinstalls and that I have a laptop.\n
        \n
        Is there any way that I can save all my configs, apps and my apps’ configs, and transfer them over to my laptop, while almost having a very quick back-up. I realize that I could turn it into an ISO somehow, but that wouldn’t work (I think) because my laptop has vastly different hardware. I also realize the partitioning problem. So in my idealistic world, there should be a solution that requires a clean install (from scripts or manual) and some .sh file, that installs all my apps, pastes all my configs and reboots.\n
        \n
        So is this possible? and if yes, how should I go about this? did someone make a tool for this already? Or(!) can I burn it to a flash and the drivers will correct themselves/I’ll deal with them later?\n
        \n
        For final words I’d like to say that I’m far from finished configurating, but I’d like to know the proccess, to not shoot myself in the foot somewhere along the way of configing, thanks!
        """
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          +body: """
            You’re welcome.\n
            \n
            To clarify, /etc can have things that are relevant for the machine so you may want to back it up, but it’s not usually transferrable directly to another machine because it probably doesn’t play the exact same role. It has things like service configs, network configs etc.\n
            \n
            Even if you’re trying to migrate a machine to new hardware and the machine will play the same role it’s best to pick and choose files from /etc/ on a case by case basis. What I do is grab a tarball of /etc and set it aside, then if I need to redo something the same way it was on the old machine I can dig through the tarball and only use the relevant files.\n
            \n
            Like I said it’s extremely specific. For example if I want to reconfigure the SSH daemon that’s usually a couple of lines which I know by heart (turn root login and password logins off) which I can do by hand; if I want to reconfigure CUPS printing it’s best to use the CUPS admin interface to autodetect the printer, you don’t usually want to mess with its config files; for some things like /etc/fstab or NFS or RAID I *may* want to copy some stuff but edit the disk UUIDs; for some things like Samba I could in theory copy the config straight over. It varies.\n
            \n
            The list of installed packages may also be relevant when you migrate to a new machine. Different distros have different commands for obtaining a list of installed packages, and different ways of using that on the new machine to restore the same package selection. This is useful and typically can get you started much faster on the new machine.
            """
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        date: 2023-11-19 22:07:11.0 +01:00
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    }
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    +body: """
      > if I copy my /home (someone said /etc too) over to my laptop, and back it up as well, I’m golden?\n
      \n
      /home yes., but ideally only files and dirs starting with a dot (so called “dotfiles” under your home dir. `tar cvfa homedots.tar.gz /home/username/.??*` should take care of it.\n
      \n
      Please note it will include some large stuff that’s probably not needed, like .cache, or some individual caches for other apps that don’t use .cache, like the browsers.\n
      \n
      Don’t copy /etc, it’s usually machine-specific.\n
      \n
      > would different hostnames and usernames make a problem?\n
      \n
      Hostname no (if you don’t bring etc). Username technically yes, you may want to rename the home dir. The user id and group id are important too but usually off it’s the first user on the same distro it will receive the same ids (typically 1000 nowadays). If not, you can change that manually and recursively `chown 1000:1000 -r /home/username`.
      """
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        +description: """
          From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
          \n
          Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).\n
          \n
          Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.\n
          \n
          ### Rules\n
          \n
          - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
          - No misinformation\n
          - No NSFW content\n
          - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
          \n
          ### Related Communities\n
          \n
          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
          - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
          \n
          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
          """
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      +slug: "Package-up-and-transport-a-linux"
      +title: "Package up and transport a linux?"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        I have a simple wish, with a probably not so simple solution.\n
        \n
        I recently started with linux (Arch kde), I’m loving it, I quickly realized that this OS and almost all apps, are highly customizable, I’m laving that as well. My problem is the unavoidable reinstalls and that I have a laptop.\n
        \n
        Is there any way that I can save all my configs, apps and my apps’ configs, and transfer them over to my laptop, while almost having a very quick back-up. I realize that I could turn it into an ISO somehow, but that wouldn’t work (I think) because my laptop has vastly different hardware. I also realize the partitioning problem. So in my idealistic world, there should be a solution that requires a clean install (from scripts or manual) and some .sh file, that installs all my apps, pastes all my configs and reboots.\n
        \n
        So is this possible? and if yes, how should I go about this? did someone make a tool for this already? Or(!) can I burn it to a flash and the drivers will correct themselves/I’ll deal with them later?\n
        \n
        For final words I’d like to say that I’m far from finished configurating, but I’d like to know the proccess, to not shoot myself in the foot somewhere along the way of configing, thanks!
        """
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        1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2338
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          +body: """
            You’re welcome.\n
            \n
            To clarify, /etc can have things that are relevant for the machine so you may want to back it up, but it’s not usually transferrable directly to another machine because it probably doesn’t play the exact same role. It has things like service configs, network configs etc.\n
            \n
            Even if you’re trying to migrate a machine to new hardware and the machine will play the same role it’s best to pick and choose files from /etc/ on a case by case basis. What I do is grab a tarball of /etc and set it aside, then if I need to redo something the same way it was on the old machine I can dig through the tarball and only use the relevant files.\n
            \n
            Like I said it’s extremely specific. For example if I want to reconfigure the SSH daemon that’s usually a couple of lines which I know by heart (turn root login and password logins off) which I can do by hand; if I want to reconfigure CUPS printing it’s best to use the CUPS admin interface to autodetect the printer, you don’t usually want to mess with its config files; for some things like /etc/fstab or NFS or RAID I *may* want to copy some stuff but edit the disk UUIDs; for some things like Samba I could in theory copy the config straight over. It varies.\n
            \n
            The list of installed packages may also be relevant when you migrate to a new machine. Different distros have different commands for obtaining a list of installed packages, and different ways of using that on the new machine to restore the same package selection. This is useful and typically can get you started much faster on the new machine.
            """
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            "@bizdelnick@lemmy.ml"
            "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
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          +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2143 …}
          +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2136 …}
          +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2073 …}
          +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2072 …}
          +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2065 …}
          +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2066 …}
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            date: 2023-11-20 09:46:53.0 +01:00
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          +"title": 142346
        }
        0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2330}
      ]
      -id: 14526
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      +downVotes: 0
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        date: 2023-11-19 22:07:11.0 +01:00
      }
      +__isInitialized__: true
       …2
    }
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …2}
    +image: null
    +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2346 …}
    +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2351 …}
    +body: """
      > if I copy my /home (someone said /etc too) over to my laptop, and back it up as well, I’m golden?\n
      \n
      /home yes., but ideally only files and dirs starting with a dot (so called “dotfiles” under your home dir. `tar cvfa homedots.tar.gz /home/username/.??*` should take care of it.\n
      \n
      Please note it will include some large stuff that’s probably not needed, like .cache, or some individual caches for other apps that don’t use .cache, like the browsers.\n
      \n
      Don’t copy /etc, it’s usually machine-specific.\n
      \n
      > would different hostnames and usernames make a problem?\n
      \n
      Hostname no (if you don’t bring etc). Username technically yes, you may want to rename the home dir. The user id and group id are important too but usually off it’s the first user on the same distro it will receive the same ids (typically 1000 nowadays). If not, you can change that manually and recursively `chown 1000:1000 -r /home/username`.
      """
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  -requestStack: Symfony\Component\HttpFoundation\RequestStack {#1328 …}
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}
user_inline App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent 12.0 MiB 0.14 ms
Input props
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]
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Component
App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent {#9646
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date App\Twig\Components\DateComponent 12.0 MiB 0.18 ms
Input props
[
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    date: 2023-11-20 07:34:26.0 +01:00
  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateComponent {#9702
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  }
}
date_edited App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent 12.0 MiB 0.10 ms
Input props
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  "editedAt" => null
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent {#9756
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    date: 2023-11-20 07:34:26.0 +01:00
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  +editedAt: null
}
user_avatar App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent 12.0 MiB 19.80 ms
Input props
[
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]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent {#9810
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vote App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent 12.0 MiB 0.51 ms
Input props
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        +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#4079 …}
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          From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
          \n
          Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).\n
          \n
          Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.\n
          \n
          ### Rules\n
          \n
          - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
          - No misinformation\n
          - No NSFW content\n
          - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
          \n
          ### Related Communities\n
          \n
          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
          - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
          \n
          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
          """
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      +slug: "Package-up-and-transport-a-linux"
      +title: "Package up and transport a linux?"
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      +body: """
        I have a simple wish, with a probably not so simple solution.\n
        \n
        I recently started with linux (Arch kde), I’m loving it, I quickly realized that this OS and almost all apps, are highly customizable, I’m laving that as well. My problem is the unavoidable reinstalls and that I have a laptop.\n
        \n
        Is there any way that I can save all my configs, apps and my apps’ configs, and transfer them over to my laptop, while almost having a very quick back-up. I realize that I could turn it into an ISO somehow, but that wouldn’t work (I think) because my laptop has vastly different hardware. I also realize the partitioning problem. So in my idealistic world, there should be a solution that requires a clean install (from scripts or manual) and some .sh file, that installs all my apps, pastes all my configs and reboots.\n
        \n
        So is this possible? and if yes, how should I go about this? did someone make a tool for this already? Or(!) can I burn it to a flash and the drivers will correct themselves/I’ll deal with them later?\n
        \n
        For final words I’d like to say that I’m far from finished configurating, but I’d like to know the proccess, to not shoot myself in the foot somewhere along the way of configing, thanks!
        """
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        1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2338
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          +body: """
            You’re welcome.\n
            \n
            To clarify, /etc can have things that are relevant for the machine so you may want to back it up, but it’s not usually transferrable directly to another machine because it probably doesn’t play the exact same role. It has things like service configs, network configs etc.\n
            \n
            Even if you’re trying to migrate a machine to new hardware and the machine will play the same role it’s best to pick and choose files from /etc/ on a case by case basis. What I do is grab a tarball of /etc and set it aside, then if I need to redo something the same way it was on the old machine I can dig through the tarball and only use the relevant files.\n
            \n
            Like I said it’s extremely specific. For example if I want to reconfigure the SSH daemon that’s usually a couple of lines which I know by heart (turn root login and password logins off) which I can do by hand; if I want to reconfigure CUPS printing it’s best to use the CUPS admin interface to autodetect the printer, you don’t usually want to mess with its config files; for some things like /etc/fstab or NFS or RAID I *may* want to copy some stuff but edit the disk UUIDs; for some things like Samba I could in theory copy the config straight over. It varies.\n
            \n
            The list of installed packages may also be relevant when you migrate to a new machine. Different distros have different commands for obtaining a list of installed packages, and different ways of using that on the new machine to restore the same package selection. This is useful and typically can get you started much faster on the new machine.
            """
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            "@bizdelnick@lemmy.ml"
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      -id: 14526
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    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …2}
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    +body: """
      > if I copy my /home (someone said /etc too) over to my laptop, and back it up as well, I’m golden?\n
      \n
      /home yes., but ideally only files and dirs starting with a dot (so called “dotfiles” under your home dir. `tar cvfa homedots.tar.gz /home/username/.??*` should take care of it.\n
      \n
      Please note it will include some large stuff that’s probably not needed, like .cache, or some individual caches for other apps that don’t use .cache, like the browsers.\n
      \n
      Don’t copy /etc, it’s usually machine-specific.\n
      \n
      > would different hostnames and usernames make a problem?\n
      \n
      Hostname no (if you don’t bring etc). Username technically yes, you may want to rename the home dir. The user id and group id are important too but usually off it’s the first user on the same distro it will receive the same ids (typically 1000 nowadays). If not, you can change that manually and recursively `chown 1000:1000 -r /home/username`.
      """
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Component
App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent {#9911
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      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585
        +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#4079 …}
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        +description: """
          From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
          \n
          Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).\n
          \n
          Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.\n
          \n
          ### Rules\n
          \n
          - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
          - No misinformation\n
          - No NSFW content\n
          - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
          \n
          ### Related Communities\n
          \n
          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
          - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
          \n
          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
          """
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      +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2956 …}
      +slug: "Package-up-and-transport-a-linux"
      +title: "Package up and transport a linux?"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        I have a simple wish, with a probably not so simple solution.\n
        \n
        I recently started with linux (Arch kde), I’m loving it, I quickly realized that this OS and almost all apps, are highly customizable, I’m laving that as well. My problem is the unavoidable reinstalls and that I have a laptop.\n
        \n
        Is there any way that I can save all my configs, apps and my apps’ configs, and transfer them over to my laptop, while almost having a very quick back-up. I realize that I could turn it into an ISO somehow, but that wouldn’t work (I think) because my laptop has vastly different hardware. I also realize the partitioning problem. So in my idealistic world, there should be a solution that requires a clean install (from scripts or manual) and some .sh file, that installs all my apps, pastes all my configs and reboots.\n
        \n
        So is this possible? and if yes, how should I go about this? did someone make a tool for this already? Or(!) can I burn it to a flash and the drivers will correct themselves/I’ll deal with them later?\n
        \n
        For final words I’d like to say that I’m far from finished configurating, but I’d like to know the proccess, to not shoot myself in the foot somewhere along the way of configing, thanks!
        """
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        1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2338
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          +body: """
            You’re welcome.\n
            \n
            To clarify, /etc can have things that are relevant for the machine so you may want to back it up, but it’s not usually transferrable directly to another machine because it probably doesn’t play the exact same role. It has things like service configs, network configs etc.\n
            \n
            Even if you’re trying to migrate a machine to new hardware and the machine will play the same role it’s best to pick and choose files from /etc/ on a case by case basis. What I do is grab a tarball of /etc and set it aside, then if I need to redo something the same way it was on the old machine I can dig through the tarball and only use the relevant files.\n
            \n
            Like I said it’s extremely specific. For example if I want to reconfigure the SSH daemon that’s usually a couple of lines which I know by heart (turn root login and password logins off) which I can do by hand; if I want to reconfigure CUPS printing it’s best to use the CUPS admin interface to autodetect the printer, you don’t usually want to mess with its config files; for some things like /etc/fstab or NFS or RAID I *may* want to copy some stuff but edit the disk UUIDs; for some things like Samba I could in theory copy the config straight over. It varies.\n
            \n
            The list of installed packages may also be relevant when you migrate to a new machine. Different distros have different commands for obtaining a list of installed packages, and different ways of using that on the new machine to restore the same package selection. This is useful and typically can get you started much faster on the new machine.
            """
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    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …2}
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    +body: """
      > if I copy my /home (someone said /etc too) over to my laptop, and back it up as well, I’m golden?\n
      \n
      /home yes., but ideally only files and dirs starting with a dot (so called “dotfiles” under your home dir. `tar cvfa homedots.tar.gz /home/username/.??*` should take care of it.\n
      \n
      Please note it will include some large stuff that’s probably not needed, like .cache, or some individual caches for other apps that don’t use .cache, like the browsers.\n
      \n
      Don’t copy /etc, it’s usually machine-specific.\n
      \n
      > would different hostnames and usernames make a problem?\n
      \n
      Hostname no (if you don’t bring etc). Username technically yes, you may want to rename the home dir. The user id and group id are important too but usually off it’s the first user on the same distro it will receive the same ids (typically 1000 nowadays). If not, you can change that manually and recursively `chown 1000:1000 -r /home/username`.
      """
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boost App\Twig\Components\BoostComponent 12.0 MiB 0.78 ms
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          From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
          \n
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          \n
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          \n
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          - No misinformation\n
          - No NSFW content\n
          - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
          \n
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          \n
          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
          - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
          \n
          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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        I have a simple wish, with a probably not so simple solution.\n
        \n
        I recently started with linux (Arch kde), I’m loving it, I quickly realized that this OS and almost all apps, are highly customizable, I’m laving that as well. My problem is the unavoidable reinstalls and that I have a laptop.\n
        \n
        Is there any way that I can save all my configs, apps and my apps’ configs, and transfer them over to my laptop, while almost having a very quick back-up. I realize that I could turn it into an ISO somehow, but that wouldn’t work (I think) because my laptop has vastly different hardware. I also realize the partitioning problem. So in my idealistic world, there should be a solution that requires a clean install (from scripts or manual) and some .sh file, that installs all my apps, pastes all my configs and reboots.\n
        \n
        So is this possible? and if yes, how should I go about this? did someone make a tool for this already? Or(!) can I burn it to a flash and the drivers will correct themselves/I’ll deal with them later?\n
        \n
        For final words I’d like to say that I’m far from finished configurating, but I’d like to know the proccess, to not shoot myself in the foot somewhere along the way of configing, thanks!
        """
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          +body: """
            You’re welcome.\n
            \n
            To clarify, /etc can have things that are relevant for the machine so you may want to back it up, but it’s not usually transferrable directly to another machine because it probably doesn’t play the exact same role. It has things like service configs, network configs etc.\n
            \n
            Even if you’re trying to migrate a machine to new hardware and the machine will play the same role it’s best to pick and choose files from /etc/ on a case by case basis. What I do is grab a tarball of /etc and set it aside, then if I need to redo something the same way it was on the old machine I can dig through the tarball and only use the relevant files.\n
            \n
            Like I said it’s extremely specific. For example if I want to reconfigure the SSH daemon that’s usually a couple of lines which I know by heart (turn root login and password logins off) which I can do by hand; if I want to reconfigure CUPS printing it’s best to use the CUPS admin interface to autodetect the printer, you don’t usually want to mess with its config files; for some things like /etc/fstab or NFS or RAID I *may* want to copy some stuff but edit the disk UUIDs; for some things like Samba I could in theory copy the config straight over. It varies.\n
            \n
            The list of installed packages may also be relevant when you migrate to a new machine. Different distros have different commands for obtaining a list of installed packages, and different ways of using that on the new machine to restore the same package selection. This is useful and typically can get you started much faster on the new machine.
            """
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    +body: """
      > if I copy my /home (someone said /etc too) over to my laptop, and back it up as well, I’m golden?\n
      \n
      /home yes., but ideally only files and dirs starting with a dot (so called “dotfiles” under your home dir. `tar cvfa homedots.tar.gz /home/username/.??*` should take care of it.\n
      \n
      Please note it will include some large stuff that’s probably not needed, like .cache, or some individual caches for other apps that don’t use .cache, like the browsers.\n
      \n
      Don’t copy /etc, it’s usually machine-specific.\n
      \n
      > would different hostnames and usernames make a problem?\n
      \n
      Hostname no (if you don’t bring etc). Username technically yes, you may want to rename the home dir. The user id and group id are important too but usually off it’s the first user on the same distro it will receive the same ids (typically 1000 nowadays). If not, you can change that manually and recursively `chown 1000:1000 -r /home/username`.
      """
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          From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
          \n
          Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).\n
          \n
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          \n
          ### Rules\n
          \n
          - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
          - No misinformation\n
          - No NSFW content\n
          - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
          \n
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          \n
          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
          - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
          \n
          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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      +slug: "Package-up-and-transport-a-linux"
      +title: "Package up and transport a linux?"
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      +body: """
        I have a simple wish, with a probably not so simple solution.\n
        \n
        I recently started with linux (Arch kde), I’m loving it, I quickly realized that this OS and almost all apps, are highly customizable, I’m laving that as well. My problem is the unavoidable reinstalls and that I have a laptop.\n
        \n
        Is there any way that I can save all my configs, apps and my apps’ configs, and transfer them over to my laptop, while almost having a very quick back-up. I realize that I could turn it into an ISO somehow, but that wouldn’t work (I think) because my laptop has vastly different hardware. I also realize the partitioning problem. So in my idealistic world, there should be a solution that requires a clean install (from scripts or manual) and some .sh file, that installs all my apps, pastes all my configs and reboots.\n
        \n
        So is this possible? and if yes, how should I go about this? did someone make a tool for this already? Or(!) can I burn it to a flash and the drivers will correct themselves/I’ll deal with them later?\n
        \n
        For final words I’d like to say that I’m far from finished configurating, but I’d like to know the proccess, to not shoot myself in the foot somewhere along the way of configing, thanks!
        """
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          +body: """
            You’re welcome.\n
            \n
            To clarify, /etc can have things that are relevant for the machine so you may want to back it up, but it’s not usually transferrable directly to another machine because it probably doesn’t play the exact same role. It has things like service configs, network configs etc.\n
            \n
            Even if you’re trying to migrate a machine to new hardware and the machine will play the same role it’s best to pick and choose files from /etc/ on a case by case basis. What I do is grab a tarball of /etc and set it aside, then if I need to redo something the same way it was on the old machine I can dig through the tarball and only use the relevant files.\n
            \n
            Like I said it’s extremely specific. For example if I want to reconfigure the SSH daemon that’s usually a couple of lines which I know by heart (turn root login and password logins off) which I can do by hand; if I want to reconfigure CUPS printing it’s best to use the CUPS admin interface to autodetect the printer, you don’t usually want to mess with its config files; for some things like /etc/fstab or NFS or RAID I *may* want to copy some stuff but edit the disk UUIDs; for some things like Samba I could in theory copy the config straight over. It varies.\n
            \n
            The list of installed packages may also be relevant when you migrate to a new machine. Different distros have different commands for obtaining a list of installed packages, and different ways of using that on the new machine to restore the same package selection. This is useful and typically can get you started much faster on the new machine.
            """
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    +body: """
      > if I copy my /home (someone said /etc too) over to my laptop, and back it up as well, I’m golden?\n
      \n
      /home yes., but ideally only files and dirs starting with a dot (so called “dotfiles” under your home dir. `tar cvfa homedots.tar.gz /home/username/.??*` should take care of it.\n
      \n
      Please note it will include some large stuff that’s probably not needed, like .cache, or some individual caches for other apps that don’t use .cache, like the browsers.\n
      \n
      Don’t copy /etc, it’s usually machine-specific.\n
      \n
      > would different hostnames and usernames make a problem?\n
      \n
      Hostname no (if you don’t bring etc). Username technically yes, you may want to rename the home dir. The user id and group id are important too but usually off it’s the first user on the same distro it will receive the same ids (typically 1000 nowadays). If not, you can change that manually and recursively `chown 1000:1000 -r /home/username`.
      """
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    -bodyTs: "'/etc':8,84 '/home':5,23 '/home/username':45,161 '1000':146,158,159 'app':72 'back':15 'bring':105 'browser':80 'cach':65,69,77 'call':36 'care':48 'chang':152 'chown':157 'copi':3,83 'cvfa':43 'differ':92 'dir':30,41,117 'distro':138 'dot':34 'dotfil':37 'etc':106 'file':28 'first':133 'golden':22 'group':122 'home':40,116 'homedots.tar.gz':44 'hostnam':93,99 'id':120,123,144 'ideal':26 'import':125 'includ':55 'individu':68 'laptop':13 'larg':57 'like':64,78 'm':21 'machin':89 'machine-specif':88 'make':96 'manual':154 'may':111 'need':63 'note':52 'nowaday':147 'pleas':51 'probabl':61 'problem':98 'r':160 'receiv':141 'recurs':156 'renam':114 'said':7 'someon':6 'specif':90 'start':31 'stuff':58 'take':47 'tar':42 'technic':108 'typic':145 'use':76 'user':119,134 'usernam':95,107 'usual':87,128 'want':112 'well':19 'would':91 'yes':24,109"
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  -cache: Symfony\Component\Cache\Adapter\TraceableTagAwareAdapter {#600 …}
}
entry App\Twig\Components\EntryComponent 12.0 MiB 190.19 ms
Input props
[
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    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2908
      +avatar: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#10308 …}
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        date: 2023-11-02 13:53:57.0 +01:00
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      +__isInitialized__: true
       …2
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    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585
      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#4079 …}
      +name: "linux@lemmy.ml"
      +title: "linux"
      +description: """
        From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
        \n
        Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).\n
        \n
        Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.\n
        \n
        ### Rules\n
        \n
        - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
        - No misinformation\n
        - No NSFW content\n
        - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
        \n
        ### Related Communities\n
        \n
        - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
        - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
        - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
        - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
        \n
        Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
        """
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      +markedForDeletionAt: null
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       …2
    }
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3075 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3114 …}
    +slug: "Rewriting-nouveau-s-Website-drivers-for-NVIDIA"
    +title: "Rewriting nouveau’s Website (drivers for NVIDIA)"
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        +user: App\Entity\User {#259
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        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1597 …2}
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        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1724 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1731 …}
        +body: """
          With other init systems you *don’t have to* write any custom config files. You just have to start docker; it already has container maintenance built-in.\n
          \n
          I’ll never understand why they had to complicate it and require every container to also have a unit of explicit management.
          """
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          "@aniki@lemm.ee"
          "@Shnog@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1719 …}
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1625
        +user: App\Entity\User {#259}
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …2}
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        +body: """
          Counterpoint: I don’t think any Linux DE will ever see mainstream adoption.\n
          \n
          It has nothing to do with how good they are. It’s not related to software support either. They could support every piece of software ever made; Linux supports 90% of games for Windows and emulators for dozens of other platforms and it still hasn’t attracted more than like 2% of gamers.\n
          \n
          It’s related to what OP said: to gain mass adoption you need to put up with a lot of bullshit. It takes a company with some financial gain to do that, and paid developers. Volunteer contributors will eventually say “screw this” or go mental like Torvalds.\n
          \n
          There’s no company that can do this. They tried and failed, because Microsoft. Apple and Google had to create their own platforms from scratch to get away from it.
          """
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          "@TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world"
          "@flashgnash@lemm.ee"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1725 …}
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2448
        +user: App\Entity\User {#259}
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …2}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1731 …}
        +body: "It is, it’s what `restart: always` does. It will restart a container on failure and start it on boot, unless explicitly stopped."
        +lang: "en"
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          "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2447 …}
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    -id: 13449
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  }
  "dateAsUrl" => true
]
Attributes
[
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]
Component
App\Twig\Components\EntryComponent {#10219
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  -newCommentMarkerCount: App\Kbin\NewCommentMarker\NewCommentMarkerCount {#4024 …}
  -cache: Symfony\Component\Cache\Adapter\TraceableTagAwareAdapter {#600 …}
  -twig: Twig\Environment {#1252 …}
  -requestStack: Symfony\Component\HttpFoundation\RequestStack {#1328 …}
  -security: Symfony\Bundle\SecurityBundle\Security {#1101 …}
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        From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
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        Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).\n
        \n
        Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.\n
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        - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
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        \n
        - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
        - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
        - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
        - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
        \n
        Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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        +body: """
          With other init systems you *don’t have to* write any custom config files. You just have to start docker; it already has container maintenance built-in.\n
          \n
          I’ll never understand why they had to complicate it and require every container to also have a unit of explicit management.
          """
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          Counterpoint: I don’t think any Linux DE will ever see mainstream adoption.\n
          \n
          It has nothing to do with how good they are. It’s not related to software support either. They could support every piece of software ever made; Linux supports 90% of games for Windows and emulators for dozens of other platforms and it still hasn’t attracted more than like 2% of gamers.\n
          \n
          It’s related to what OP said: to gain mass adoption you need to put up with a lot of bullshit. It takes a company with some financial gain to do that, and paid developers. Volunteer contributors will eventually say “screw this” or go mental like Torvalds.\n
          \n
          There’s no company that can do this. They tried and failed, because Microsoft. Apple and Google had to create their own platforms from scratch to get away from it.
          """
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App\Twig\Components\DateComponent {#10382
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date_edited App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent 12.0 MiB 0.17 ms
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Input props
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vote App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent 12.0 MiB 0.63 ms
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          With other init systems you *don’t have to* write any custom config files. You just have to start docker; it already has container maintenance built-in.\n
          \n
          I’ll never understand why they had to complicate it and require every container to also have a unit of explicit management.
          """
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          Counterpoint: I don’t think any Linux DE will ever see mainstream adoption.\n
          \n
          It has nothing to do with how good they are. It’s not related to software support either. They could support every piece of software ever made; Linux supports 90% of games for Windows and emulators for dozens of other platforms and it still hasn’t attracted more than like 2% of gamers.\n
          \n
          It’s related to what OP said: to gain mass adoption you need to put up with a lot of bullshit. It takes a company with some financial gain to do that, and paid developers. Volunteer contributors will eventually say “screw this” or go mental like Torvalds.\n
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Component
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        \n
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        \n
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        \n
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        - No NSFW content\n
        - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
        \n
        ### Related Communities\n
        \n
        - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
        - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
        - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
        - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
        \n
        Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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        +body: """
          With other init systems you *don’t have to* write any custom config files. You just have to start docker; it already has container maintenance built-in.\n
          \n
          I’ll never understand why they had to complicate it and require every container to also have a unit of explicit management.
          """
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          "@TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world"
          "@aniki@lemm.ee"
          "@Shnog@lemmy.world"
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1625
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          Counterpoint: I don’t think any Linux DE will ever see mainstream adoption.\n
          \n
          It has nothing to do with how good they are. It’s not related to software support either. They could support every piece of software ever made; Linux supports 90% of games for Windows and emulators for dozens of other platforms and it still hasn’t attracted more than like 2% of gamers.\n
          \n
          It’s related to what OP said: to gain mass adoption you need to put up with a lot of bullshit. It takes a company with some financial gain to do that, and paid developers. Volunteer contributors will eventually say “screw this” or go mental like Torvalds.\n
          \n
          There’s no company that can do this. They tried and failed, because Microsoft. Apple and Google had to create their own platforms from scratch to get away from it.
          """
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     …2
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boost App\Twig\Components\BoostComponent 12.0 MiB 0.87 ms
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        ### Rules\n
        \n
        - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
        - No misinformation\n
        - No NSFW content\n
        - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
        \n
        ### Related Communities\n
        \n
        - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
        - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
        - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
        - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
        \n
        Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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        +body: """
          With other init systems you *don’t have to* write any custom config files. You just have to start docker; it already has container maintenance built-in.\n
          \n
          I’ll never understand why they had to complicate it and require every container to also have a unit of explicit management.
          """
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          Counterpoint: I don’t think any Linux DE will ever see mainstream adoption.\n
          \n
          It has nothing to do with how good they are. It’s not related to software support either. They could support every piece of software ever made; Linux supports 90% of games for Windows and emulators for dozens of other platforms and it still hasn’t attracted more than like 2% of gamers.\n
          \n
          It’s related to what OP said: to gain mass adoption you need to put up with a lot of bullshit. It takes a company with some financial gain to do that, and paid developers. Volunteer contributors will eventually say “screw this” or go mental like Torvalds.\n
          \n
          There’s no company that can do this. They tried and failed, because Microsoft. Apple and Google had to create their own platforms from scratch to get away from it.
          """
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]
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Component
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        \n
        - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
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        +body: """
          With other init systems you *don’t have to* write any custom config files. You just have to start docker; it already has container maintenance built-in.\n
          \n
          I’ll never understand why they had to complicate it and require every container to also have a unit of explicit management.
          """
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          "@TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world"
          "@aniki@lemm.ee"
          "@Shnog@lemmy.world"
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1625
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          Counterpoint: I don’t think any Linux DE will ever see mainstream adoption.\n
          \n
          It has nothing to do with how good they are. It’s not related to software support either. They could support every piece of software ever made; Linux supports 90% of games for Windows and emulators for dozens of other platforms and it still hasn’t attracted more than like 2% of gamers.\n
          \n
          It’s related to what OP said: to gain mass adoption you need to put up with a lot of bullshit. It takes a company with some financial gain to do that, and paid developers. Volunteer contributors will eventually say “screw this” or go mental like Torvalds.\n
          \n
          There’s no company that can do this. They tried and failed, because Microsoft. Apple and Google had to create their own platforms from scratch to get away from it.
          """
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          "@TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world"
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        +body: "It is, it’s what `restart: always` does. It will restart a container on failure and start it on boot, unless explicitly stopped."
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entry_comment App\Twig\Components\EntryCommentComponent 12.0 MiB 136.53 ms
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          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
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          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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            Counterpoint: I don’t think any Linux DE will ever see mainstream adoption.\n
            \n
            It has nothing to do with how good they are. It’s not related to software support either. They could support every piece of software ever made; Linux supports 90% of games for Windows and emulators for dozens of other platforms and it still hasn’t attracted more than like 2% of gamers.\n
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            It’s related to what OP said: to gain mass adoption you need to put up with a lot of bullshit. It takes a company with some financial gain to do that, and paid developers. Volunteer contributors will eventually say “screw this” or go mental like Torvalds.\n
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          +body: "It is, it’s what `restart: always` does. It will restart a container on failure and start it on boot, unless explicitly stopped."
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      With other init systems you *don’t have to* write any custom config files. You just have to start docker; it already has container maintenance built-in.\n
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      I’ll never understand why they had to complicate it and require every container to also have a unit of explicit management.
      """
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Attributes
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Component
App\Twig\Components\EntryCommentComponent {#10863
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          From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
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          \n
          - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
          - No misinformation\n
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          \n
          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
          - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
          \n
          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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            Counterpoint: I don’t think any Linux DE will ever see mainstream adoption.\n
            \n
            It has nothing to do with how good they are. It’s not related to software support either. They could support every piece of software ever made; Linux supports 90% of games for Windows and emulators for dozens of other platforms and it still hasn’t attracted more than like 2% of gamers.\n
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          +body: "It is, it’s what `restart: always` does. It will restart a container on failure and start it on boot, unless explicitly stopped."
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      With other init systems you *don’t have to* write any custom config files. You just have to start docker; it already has container maintenance built-in.\n
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Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent {#10908
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      date: 2024-09-29 03:27:13.0 +02:00
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    +markedForDeletionAt: null
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    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687169920 {#269
      date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
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  +showAvatar: false
}
date App\Twig\Components\DateComponent 12.0 MiB 0.20 ms
Input props
[
  "date" => DateTimeImmutable @1700161010 {#1733
    date: 2023-11-16 19:56:50.0 +01:00
  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateComponent {#10964
  +date: DateTimeImmutable @1700161010 {#1733
    date: 2023-11-16 19:56:50.0 +01:00
  }
}
date_edited App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent 12.0 MiB 0.11 ms
Input props
[
  "createdAt" => DateTimeImmutable @1700161010 {#1733
    date: 2023-11-16 19:56:50.0 +01:00
  }
  "editedAt" => null
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent {#11018
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700161010 {#1733
    date: 2023-11-16 19:56:50.0 +01:00
  }
  +editedAt: null
}
user_avatar App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent 12.0 MiB 0.18 ms
Input props
[
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    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +username: "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
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      date: 2024-09-29 03:27:13.0 +02:00
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    +markedForDeletionAt: null
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    +customCss: null
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    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
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      date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
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  "width" => 40
  "height" => 40
  "asLink" => true
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent {#11072
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      date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
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}
vote App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent 12.0 MiB 0.77 ms
Input props
[
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    +user: App\Entity\User {#259
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    +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1597
      +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2908
        +avatar: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#10308 …}
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          date: 2023-11-02 13:53:57.0 +01:00
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        +__isInitialized__: true
         …2
      }
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585
        +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#4079 …}
        +name: "linux@lemmy.ml"
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        +description: """
          From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
          \n
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          \n
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          - No misinformation\n
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          \n
          ### Related Communities\n
          \n
          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
          - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
          \n
          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
          """
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            Counterpoint: I don’t think any Linux DE will ever see mainstream adoption.\n
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            It has nothing to do with how good they are. It’s not related to software support either. They could support every piece of software ever made; Linux supports 90% of games for Windows and emulators for dozens of other platforms and it still hasn’t attracted more than like 2% of gamers.\n
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      With other init systems you *don’t have to* write any custom config files. You just have to start docker; it already has container maintenance built-in.\n
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            Counterpoint: I don’t think any Linux DE will ever see mainstream adoption.\n
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            It has nothing to do with how good they are. It’s not related to software support either. They could support every piece of software ever made; Linux supports 90% of games for Windows and emulators for dozens of other platforms and it still hasn’t attracted more than like 2% of gamers.\n
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            It’s related to what OP said: to gain mass adoption you need to put up with a lot of bullshit. It takes a company with some financial gain to do that, and paid developers. Volunteer contributors will eventually say “screw this” or go mental like Torvalds.\n
            \n
            There’s no company that can do this. They tried and failed, because Microsoft. Apple and Google had to create their own platforms from scratch to get away from it.
            """
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        0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2448
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          +body: "It is, it’s what `restart: always` does. It will restart a container on failure and start it on boot, unless explicitly stopped."
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      With other init systems you *don’t have to* write any custom config files. You just have to start docker; it already has container maintenance built-in.\n
      \n
      I’ll never understand why they had to complicate it and require every container to also have a unit of explicit management.
      """
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boost App\Twig\Components\BoostComponent 12.0 MiB 0.66 ms
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          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
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            Counterpoint: I don’t think any Linux DE will ever see mainstream adoption.\n
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            It has nothing to do with how good they are. It’s not related to software support either. They could support every piece of software ever made; Linux supports 90% of games for Windows and emulators for dozens of other platforms and it still hasn’t attracted more than like 2% of gamers.\n
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            It’s related to what OP said: to gain mass adoption you need to put up with a lot of bullshit. It takes a company with some financial gain to do that, and paid developers. Volunteer contributors will eventually say “screw this” or go mental like Torvalds.\n
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      With other init systems you *don’t have to* write any custom config files. You just have to start docker; it already has container maintenance built-in.\n
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          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
          - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
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            Counterpoint: I don’t think any Linux DE will ever see mainstream adoption.\n
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            It has nothing to do with how good they are. It’s not related to software support either. They could support every piece of software ever made; Linux supports 90% of games for Windows and emulators for dozens of other platforms and it still hasn’t attracted more than like 2% of gamers.\n
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            It’s related to what OP said: to gain mass adoption you need to put up with a lot of bullshit. It takes a company with some financial gain to do that, and paid developers. Volunteer contributors will eventually say “screw this” or go mental like Torvalds.\n
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      With other init systems you *don’t have to* write any custom config files. You just have to start docker; it already has container maintenance built-in.\n
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entry_comment App\Twig\Components\EntryCommentComponent 12.0 MiB 144.80 ms
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          - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
          - No misinformation\n
          - No NSFW content\n
          - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
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          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
          - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
          \n
          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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          +body: """
            With other init systems you *don’t have to* write any custom config files. You just have to start docker; it already has container maintenance built-in.\n
            \n
            I’ll never understand why they had to complicate it and require every container to also have a unit of explicit management.
            """
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          +body: "It is, it’s what `restart: always` does. It will restart a container on failure and start it on boot, unless explicitly stopped."
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      Counterpoint: I don’t think any Linux DE will ever see mainstream adoption.\n
      \n
      It has nothing to do with how good they are. It’s not related to software support either. They could support every piece of software ever made; Linux supports 90% of games for Windows and emulators for dozens of other platforms and it still hasn’t attracted more than like 2% of gamers.\n
      \n
      It’s related to what OP said: to gain mass adoption you need to put up with a lot of bullshit. It takes a company with some financial gain to do that, and paid developers. Volunteer contributors will eventually say “screw this” or go mental like Torvalds.\n
      \n
      There’s no company that can do this. They tried and failed, because Microsoft. Apple and Google had to create their own platforms from scratch to get away from it.
      """
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Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\EntryCommentComponent {#11459
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          Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).\n
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          ### Rules\n
          \n
          - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
          - No misinformation\n
          - No NSFW content\n
          - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
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          ### Related Communities\n
          \n
          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
          - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
          \n
          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
          """
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            With other init systems you *don’t have to* write any custom config files. You just have to start docker; it already has container maintenance built-in.\n
            \n
            I’ll never understand why they had to complicate it and require every container to also have a unit of explicit management.
            """
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      Counterpoint: I don’t think any Linux DE will ever see mainstream adoption.\n
      \n
      It has nothing to do with how good they are. It’s not related to software support either. They could support every piece of software ever made; Linux supports 90% of games for Windows and emulators for dozens of other platforms and it still hasn’t attracted more than like 2% of gamers.\n
      \n
      It’s related to what OP said: to gain mass adoption you need to put up with a lot of bullshit. It takes a company with some financial gain to do that, and paid developers. Volunteer contributors will eventually say “screw this” or go mental like Torvalds.\n
      \n
      There’s no company that can do this. They tried and failed, because Microsoft. Apple and Google had to create their own platforms from scratch to get away from it.
      """
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Attributes
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Component
App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent {#11504
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    +homepage: "front"
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    +lastActive: DateTime @1727573233 {#267
      date: 2024-09-29 03:27:13.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
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    +addMentionsPosts: true
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    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
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    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687169920 {#269
      date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
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}
date App\Twig\Components\DateComponent 12.0 MiB 0.19 ms
Input props
[
  "date" => DateTimeImmutable @1700160560 {#1618
    date: 2023-11-16 19:49:20.0 +01:00
  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateComponent {#11560
  +date: DateTimeImmutable @1700160560 {#1618
    date: 2023-11-16 19:49:20.0 +01:00
  }
}
date_edited App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent 12.0 MiB 0.17 ms
Input props
[
  "createdAt" => DateTimeImmutable @1700160560 {#1618
    date: 2023-11-16 19:49:20.0 +01:00
  }
  "editedAt" => DateTimeImmutable @1700427384 {#1599
    date: 2023-11-19 21:56:24.0 +01:00
  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent {#11614
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700160560 {#1618
    date: 2023-11-16 19:49:20.0 +01:00
  }
  +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700427384 {#1599
    date: 2023-11-19 21:56:24.0 +01:00
  }
}
user_avatar App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent 12.0 MiB 0.15 ms
Input props
[
  "user" => App\Entity\User {#259
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +username: "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
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    +markedForDeletionAt: null
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    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
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    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
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      date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
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  "width" => 40
  "height" => 40
  "asLink" => true
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent {#11668
  +width: 40
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    +avatar: null
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    +markedForDeletionAt: null
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    +customCss: null
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    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
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      date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
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}
vote App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent 12.0 MiB 0.55 ms
Input props
[
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    +user: App\Entity\User {#259
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    +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1597
      +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2908
        +avatar: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#10308 …}
        +cover: null
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          date: 2023-11-02 13:53:57.0 +01:00
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        +__isInitialized__: true
         …2
      }
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585
        +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#4079 …}
        +name: "linux@lemmy.ml"
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        +description: """
          From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
          \n
          Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).\n
          \n
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          \n
          ### Rules\n
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          - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
          - No misinformation\n
          - No NSFW content\n
          - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
          \n
          ### Related Communities\n
          \n
          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
          - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
          \n
          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
          """
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            With other init systems you *don’t have to* write any custom config files. You just have to start docker; it already has container maintenance built-in.\n
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      Counterpoint: I don’t think any Linux DE will ever see mainstream adoption.\n
      \n
      It has nothing to do with how good they are. It’s not related to software support either. They could support every piece of software ever made; Linux supports 90% of games for Windows and emulators for dozens of other platforms and it still hasn’t attracted more than like 2% of gamers.\n
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            With other init systems you *don’t have to* write any custom config files. You just have to start docker; it already has container maintenance built-in.\n
            \n
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            """
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      Counterpoint: I don’t think any Linux DE will ever see mainstream adoption.\n
      \n
      It has nothing to do with how good they are. It’s not related to software support either. They could support every piece of software ever made; Linux supports 90% of games for Windows and emulators for dozens of other platforms and it still hasn’t attracted more than like 2% of gamers.\n
      \n
      It’s related to what OP said: to gain mass adoption you need to put up with a lot of bullshit. It takes a company with some financial gain to do that, and paid developers. Volunteer contributors will eventually say “screw this” or go mental like Torvalds.\n
      \n
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boost App\Twig\Components\BoostComponent 12.0 MiB 0.80 ms
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          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
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          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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            With other init systems you *don’t have to* write any custom config files. You just have to start docker; it already has container maintenance built-in.\n
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            I’ll never understand why they had to complicate it and require every container to also have a unit of explicit management.
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      Counterpoint: I don’t think any Linux DE will ever see mainstream adoption.\n
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      It has nothing to do with how good they are. It’s not related to software support either. They could support every piece of software ever made; Linux supports 90% of games for Windows and emulators for dozens of other platforms and it still hasn’t attracted more than like 2% of gamers.\n
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      \n
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          - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
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            With other init systems you *don’t have to* write any custom config files. You just have to start docker; it already has container maintenance built-in.\n
            \n
            I’ll never understand why they had to complicate it and require every container to also have a unit of explicit management.
            """
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      Counterpoint: I don’t think any Linux DE will ever see mainstream adoption.\n
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      It has nothing to do with how good they are. It’s not related to software support either. They could support every piece of software ever made; Linux supports 90% of games for Windows and emulators for dozens of other platforms and it still hasn’t attracted more than like 2% of gamers.\n
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entry_comment App\Twig\Components\EntryCommentComponent 12.0 MiB 23.14 ms
Input props
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          \n
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          \n
          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
          - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
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          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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          +body: """
            With other init systems you *don’t have to* write any custom config files. You just have to start docker; it already has container maintenance built-in.\n
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            I’ll never understand why they had to complicate it and require every container to also have a unit of explicit management.
            """
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            Counterpoint: I don’t think any Linux DE will ever see mainstream adoption.\n
            \n
            It has nothing to do with how good they are. It’s not related to software support either. They could support every piece of software ever made; Linux supports 90% of games for Windows and emulators for dozens of other platforms and it still hasn’t attracted more than like 2% of gamers.\n
            \n
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            """
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    +body: "It is, it’s what `restart: always` does. It will restart a container on failure and start it on boot, unless explicitly stopped."
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Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\EntryCommentComponent {#12057
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          From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
          \n
          Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).\n
          \n
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          \n
          ### Rules\n
          \n
          - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
          - No misinformation\n
          - No NSFW content\n
          - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
          \n
          ### Related Communities\n
          \n
          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
          - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
          \n
          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
          """
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      +slug: "Rewriting-nouveau-s-Website-drivers-for-NVIDIA"
      +title: "Rewriting nouveau’s Website (drivers for NVIDIA)"
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        1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1729
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            With other init systems you *don’t have to* write any custom config files. You just have to start docker; it already has container maintenance built-in.\n
            \n
            I’ll never understand why they had to complicate it and require every container to also have a unit of explicit management.
            """
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            Counterpoint: I don’t think any Linux DE will ever see mainstream adoption.\n
            \n
            It has nothing to do with how good they are. It’s not related to software support either. They could support every piece of software ever made; Linux supports 90% of games for Windows and emulators for dozens of other platforms and it still hasn’t attracted more than like 2% of gamers.\n
            \n
            It’s related to what OP said: to gain mass adoption you need to put up with a lot of bullshit. It takes a company with some financial gain to do that, and paid developers. Volunteer contributors will eventually say “screw this” or go mental like Torvalds.\n
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            """
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user_inline App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent 12.0 MiB 0.19 ms
Input props
[
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Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent {#12102
  +user: App\Entity\User {#259
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +username: "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1727573233 {#267
      date: 2024-09-29 03:27:13.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: true
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: false
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
    +isVerified: false
    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#231 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#161 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#134 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#104 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#77 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#92 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1816 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1851 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1868 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1594 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1602 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1768 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1862 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1836 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1846 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1831 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2410 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1955 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2399 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1911 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1914 …}
    +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1884 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1915 …}
    -id: 5129
    -password: "$2y$13$/vteljm8CiRSKlQjOelDZefgFTbMgXd9zTn7W2zbMetE/IgF5X85q"
    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1950 …}
    +apId: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +apProfileId: "https://feddit.nl/u/lemmyvore"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://feddit.nl/u/lemmyvore"
    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://feddit.nl/inbox"
    +apDomain: "feddit.nl"
    +apPreferredUsername: "lemmyvore"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1727039733 {#272
      date: 2024-09-22 23:15:33.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687169920 {#269
      date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  +showAvatar: false
}
date App\Twig\Components\DateComponent 12.0 MiB 0.16 ms
Input props
[
  "date" => DateTimeImmutable @1700180144 {#2463
    date: 2023-11-17 01:15:44.0 +01:00
  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateComponent {#12158
  +date: DateTimeImmutable @1700180144 {#2463
    date: 2023-11-17 01:15:44.0 +01:00
  }
}
date_edited App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent 12.0 MiB 0.11 ms
Input props
[
  "createdAt" => DateTimeImmutable @1700180144 {#2463
    date: 2023-11-17 01:15:44.0 +01:00
  }
  "editedAt" => null
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent {#12212
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700180144 {#2463
    date: 2023-11-17 01:15:44.0 +01:00
  }
  +editedAt: null
}
user_avatar App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent 12.0 MiB 0.19 ms
Input props
[
  "user" => App\Entity\User {#259
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +username: "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1727573233 {#267
      date: 2024-09-29 03:27:13.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: true
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: false
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
    +isVerified: false
    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#231 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#161 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#134 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#104 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#77 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#92 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1816 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1851 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1868 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1594 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1602 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1768 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1862 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1836 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1846 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1831 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2410 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1955 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2399 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1911 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1914 …}
    +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1884 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1915 …}
    -id: 5129
    -password: "$2y$13$/vteljm8CiRSKlQjOelDZefgFTbMgXd9zTn7W2zbMetE/IgF5X85q"
    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1950 …}
    +apId: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +apProfileId: "https://feddit.nl/u/lemmyvore"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://feddit.nl/u/lemmyvore"
    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://feddit.nl/inbox"
    +apDomain: "feddit.nl"
    +apPreferredUsername: "lemmyvore"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1727039733 {#272
      date: 2024-09-22 23:15:33.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687169920 {#269
      date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  "width" => 40
  "height" => 40
  "asLink" => true
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent {#12266
  +width: 40
  +height: 40
  +user: App\Entity\User {#259
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +username: "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1727573233 {#267
      date: 2024-09-29 03:27:13.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: true
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: false
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
    +isVerified: false
    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#231 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#161 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#134 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#104 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#77 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#92 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1816 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1851 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1868 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1594 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1602 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1768 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1862 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1836 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1846 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1831 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2410 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1955 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2399 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1911 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1914 …}
    +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1884 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1915 …}
    -id: 5129
    -password: "$2y$13$/vteljm8CiRSKlQjOelDZefgFTbMgXd9zTn7W2zbMetE/IgF5X85q"
    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1950 …}
    +apId: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +apProfileId: "https://feddit.nl/u/lemmyvore"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://feddit.nl/u/lemmyvore"
    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://feddit.nl/inbox"
    +apDomain: "feddit.nl"
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    +apDiscoverable: true
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    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1727039733 {#272
      date: 2024-09-22 23:15:33.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687169920 {#269
      date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  +asLink: true
}
vote App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent 12.0 MiB 0.51 ms
Input props
[
  "subject" => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2448
    +user: App\Entity\User {#259
      +avatar: null
      +cover: null
      +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
      +username: "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
      +roles: []
      +followersCount: 0
      +homepage: "front"
      +about: null
      +lastActive: DateTime @1727573233 {#267
        date: 2024-09-29 03:27:13.0 +02:00
      }
      +markedForDeletionAt: null
      +fields: null
      +oauthGithubId: null
      +oauthGoogleId: null
      +oauthFacebookId: null
      +oauthKeycloakId: null
      +hideAdult: true
      +showSubscribedUsers: true
      +showSubscribedMagazines: true
      +showSubscribedDomains: true
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      +featuredMagazines: null
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      +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
      +notifyOnNewPost: false
      +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
      +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: false
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      +addMentionsPosts: true
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      +isDeleted: false
      +isBot: false
      +spamProtection: true
      +customCss: null
      +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
      +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
      +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
      +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#231 …}
      +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
      +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#161 …}
      +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#134 …}
      +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#104 …}
      +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#77 …}
      +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#92 …}
      +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1816 …}
      +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1851 …}
      +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1868 …}
      +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1594 …}
      +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1602 …}
      +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1768 …}
      +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1862 …}
      +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1836 …}
      +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1846 …}
      +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1831 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2410 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1955 …}
      +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2399 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1911 …}
      +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1914 …}
      +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1884 …}
      +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1915 …}
      -id: 5129
      -password: "$2y$13$/vteljm8CiRSKlQjOelDZefgFTbMgXd9zTn7W2zbMetE/IgF5X85q"
      -totpSecret: null
      -totpBackupCodes: []
      -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1950 …}
      +apId: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
      +apProfileId: "https://feddit.nl/u/lemmyvore"
      +apPublicUrl: "https://feddit.nl/u/lemmyvore"
      +apFollowersUrl: null
      +apInboxUrl: "https://feddit.nl/inbox"
      +apDomain: "feddit.nl"
      +apPreferredUsername: "lemmyvore"
      +apDiscoverable: true
      +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
      +privateKey: null
      +publicKey: null
      +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1727039733 {#272
        date: 2024-09-22 23:15:33.0 +02:00
      }
      +apDeletedAt: null
      +apTimeoutAt: null
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687169920 {#269
        date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
      }
    }
    +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1597
      +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2908
        +avatar: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#10308 …}
        +cover: null
        +email: "petsoi@discuss.tchncs.de"
        +username: "@petsoi@discuss.tchncs.de"
        +roles: []
        +followersCount: 0
        +homepage: "front"
        +about: null
        +lastActive: DateTime @1727043548 {#10305
          date: 2024-09-23 00:19:08.0 +02:00
        }
        +markedForDeletionAt: null
        +fields: null
        +oauthGithubId: null
        +oauthGoogleId: null
        +oauthFacebookId: null
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        +hideAdult: true
        +showSubscribedUsers: true
        +showSubscribedMagazines: true
        +showSubscribedDomains: true
        +preferredLanguages: []
        +featuredMagazines: null
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        +showProfileFollowings: true
        +markNewComments: false
        +notifyOnNewEntry: false
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        +notifyOnNewPost: false
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        +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: true
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        +isBot: false
        +spamProtection: true
        +customCss: null
        +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
        +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10309 …}
        +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10311 …}
        +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10313 …}
        +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10315 …}
        +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10317 …}
        +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10319 …}
        +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10321 …}
        +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10323 …}
        +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10325 …}
        +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10327 …}
        +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10329 …}
        +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10331 …}
        +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10333 …}
        +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10335 …}
        +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10337 …}
        +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10339 …}
        +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10341 …}
        +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10343 …}
        +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10345 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10347 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10349 …}
        +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10351 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10353 …}
        +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10355 …}
        +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10357 …}
        +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10359 …}
        -id: 69851
        -password: "$2y$13$Z8/MeQWXFdPKxuY43jz2IO84WeCyQLNxrKarAQCQhYTYDPIhxN7vm"
        -totpSecret: null
        -totpBackupCodes: []
        -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10361 …}
        +apId: "petsoi@discuss.tchncs.de"
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        +apPreferredUsername: "petsoi"
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        +privateKey: null
        +publicKey: null
        +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1711111575 {#10306
          date: 2024-03-22 13:46:15.0 +01:00
        }
        +apDeletedAt: null
        +apTimeoutAt: null
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1698929637 {#10307
          date: 2023-11-02 13:53:57.0 +01:00
        }
        +__isInitialized__: true
         …2
      }
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585
        +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#4079 …}
        +name: "linux@lemmy.ml"
        +title: "linux"
        +description: """
          From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
          \n
          Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).\n
          \n
          Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.\n
          \n
          ### Rules\n
          \n
          - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
          - No misinformation\n
          - No NSFW content\n
          - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
          \n
          ### Related Communities\n
          \n
          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
          - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
          \n
          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
          """
        +rules: null
        +subscriptionsCount: 1
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        +entryCommentCount: 26827
        +postCount: 5
        +postCommentCount: 76
        +isAdult: false
        +customCss: null
        +lastActive: DateTime @1727580064 {#4076
          date: 2024-09-29 03:21:04.643949 UTC (+00:00)
        }
        +markedForDeletionAt: null
        +tags: null
        +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4080 …}
        +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4082 …}
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        +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4086 …}
        +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4088 …}
        +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4090 …}
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            With other init systems you *don’t have to* write any custom config files. You just have to start docker; it already has container maintenance built-in.\n
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            Counterpoint: I don’t think any Linux DE will ever see mainstream adoption.\n
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            It has nothing to do with how good they are. It’s not related to software support either. They could support every piece of software ever made; Linux supports 90% of games for Windows and emulators for dozens of other platforms and it still hasn’t attracted more than like 2% of gamers.\n
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            With other init systems you *don’t have to* write any custom config files. You just have to start docker; it already has container maintenance built-in.\n
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            Counterpoint: I don’t think any Linux DE will ever see mainstream adoption.\n
            \n
            It has nothing to do with how good they are. It’s not related to software support either. They could support every piece of software ever made; Linux supports 90% of games for Windows and emulators for dozens of other platforms and it still hasn’t attracted more than like 2% of gamers.\n
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boost App\Twig\Components\BoostComponent 12.0 MiB 0.80 ms
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          \n
          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
          - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
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          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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          +body: """
            With other init systems you *don’t have to* write any custom config files. You just have to start docker; it already has container maintenance built-in.\n
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            I’ll never understand why they had to complicate it and require every container to also have a unit of explicit management.
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            Counterpoint: I don’t think any Linux DE will ever see mainstream adoption.\n
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            It has nothing to do with how good they are. It’s not related to software support either. They could support every piece of software ever made; Linux supports 90% of games for Windows and emulators for dozens of other platforms and it still hasn’t attracted more than like 2% of gamers.\n
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          \n
          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
          - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
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          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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            With other init systems you *don’t have to* write any custom config files. You just have to start docker; it already has container maintenance built-in.\n
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            Counterpoint: I don’t think any Linux DE will ever see mainstream adoption.\n
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            It has nothing to do with how good they are. It’s not related to software support either. They could support every piece of software ever made; Linux supports 90% of games for Windows and emulators for dozens of other platforms and it still hasn’t attracted more than like 2% of gamers.\n
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      "@aniki@lemm.ee"
      "@Shnog@lemmy.world"
      "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    ]
    +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2447 …}
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    }
    +"title": 131950
  }
  -cache: Symfony\Component\Cache\Adapter\TraceableTagAwareAdapter {#600 …}
}
entry App\Twig\Components\EntryComponent 14.0 MiB 34.61 ms
Input props
[
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    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2715
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      -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12833 …}
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      +apDeletedAt: null
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        date: 2023-10-13 18:29:20.0 +02:00
      }
      +__isInitialized__: true
       …2
    }
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1548
      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#12690 …}
      +name: "piracy@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
      +title: "piracy"
      +description: """
        ##### ⚓ Community devoted to in-depth debate on topics concerning digital piracy, ethical problems, and legal advancements.\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        ### Rules • [Full Version](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
        \n
        **1**. Posts must be related to the discussion of digital piracy\n
        \n
        **2**. Don’t request invites, trade, sell, or self-promote\n
        \n
        **3**. Don’t request or link to specific pirated titles, including DMs\n
        \n
        **4**. Don’t submit low-quality posts, be entitled, or harass others\n
        \n
        **5**. Don’t post questions already answered. READ THE [WIKI](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        [![](https://a.imagem.app/oZoQ1v.png)](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
        ---------------------------------------------------------------------------\n
        \n
        ### Loot, Pillage, & Plunder\n
        \n
        - [📜 Megathread](https://rentry.co/megathread)\n
        - [🪶 FAQ](https://rentry.co/piracy-faq)\n
        - [🪶 ISP Complaints](https://rentry.co/piracy-isp-complaints)\n
        - [🪶 Rules](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        💰 Please help cover server costs.\n
        \n
        [![Ko-Fi](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/4a2f073a-3dd8-492a-942d-72bd929c9f1d.png)](https://ko-fi.com/dbzer0)[![Liberapay](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/eec4659d-39be-4fc9-bc9e-66a96285ea2c.png)](https://liberapay.com/db0/)\n
        \n
        ---
        """
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      +entryCommentCount: 19337
      +postCount: 7
      +postCommentCount: 149
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      +markedForDeletionAt: null
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        date: 2024-02-24 06:17:09.0 +01:00
      }
      +apDeletedAt: null
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       …2
    }
    +image: null
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2956 …}
    +slug: "How-is-the-piracy-experience-on-an-iPad"
    +title: "How is the piracy experience on an iPad ?"
    +url: null
    +body: "So I am planning on buying an ipad, never owned one before. I have always been an android guy and from what I have heard Ipad os or ios is pretty restrictive in nature so I was wondering how much does it hamper the piracy experience. For example on android I can torrent files of any nature or size without any restrictions and sideload the apk’s of paid apps to enjoy them for free, can I still do all this on an ipad or should I just drop the idea and get an android tablet instead ?"
    +type: "article"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: false
    +commentCount: 49
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    }
    +ip: null
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    +tags: null
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    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3194 …}
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    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3198 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3200 …}
    +children: [
      App\Entity\EntryComment {#2296
        +user: App\Entity\User {#259
          +avatar: null
          +cover: null
          +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
          +username: "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
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          }
          +markedForDeletionAt: null
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          +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
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            date: 2024-09-22 23:15:33.0 +02:00
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            date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
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        }
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2295 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1548 …2}
        +image: null
        +parent: null
        +root: null
        +body: "Torrent clients are banned from the Apple Store and you can’t sideload apps. It’s a very restrictive device in many respects."
        +lang: "en"
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        }
        +ip: null
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        +mentions: [
          "@B3_CHAD@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2281 …}
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        -id: 145441
        -bodyTs: "'app':14 'appl':7 'ban':4 'client':2 'devic':20 'mani':22 'respect':23 'restrict':19 'sideload':13 'store':8 'torrent':1"
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    -id: 14978
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    +cross: false
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    +editedAt: null
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      date: 2023-11-21 05:59:50.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  "dateAsUrl" => true
]
Attributes
[
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]
Component
App\Twig\Components\EntryComponent {#12647
  -authorizationChecker: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\AuthorizationChecker {#931 …}
  -newCommentMarkerCount: App\Kbin\NewCommentMarker\NewCommentMarkerCount {#4024 …}
  -cache: Symfony\Component\Cache\Adapter\TraceableTagAwareAdapter {#600 …}
  -twig: Twig\Environment {#1252 …}
  -requestStack: Symfony\Component\HttpFoundation\RequestStack {#1328 …}
  -security: Symfony\Bundle\SecurityBundle\Security {#1101 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2295
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2715
      +avatar: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#12779 …}
      +cover: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#12780 …}
      +email: "B3_CHAD@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
      +username: "@B3_CHAD@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
      +roles: []
      +followersCount: 0
      +homepage: "front"
      +about: null
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        date: 2024-06-23 12:56:36.0 +02:00
      }
      +markedForDeletionAt: null
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      +hideAdult: true
      +showSubscribedUsers: true
      +showSubscribedMagazines: true
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      +preferredLanguages: []
      +featuredMagazines: null
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      +showProfileFollowings: true
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      +addMentionsEntries: false
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      +isBanned: false
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      +customCss: null
      +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
      +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12781 …}
      +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12783 …}
      +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12785 …}
      +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12787 …}
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      +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12791 …}
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      +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12815 …}
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      -totpSecret: null
      -totpBackupCodes: []
      -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12833 …}
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      +apDeletedAt: null
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        date: 2023-10-13 18:29:20.0 +02:00
      }
      +__isInitialized__: true
       …2
    }
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1548
      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#12690 …}
      +name: "piracy@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
      +title: "piracy"
      +description: """
        ##### ⚓ Community devoted to in-depth debate on topics concerning digital piracy, ethical problems, and legal advancements.\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        ### Rules • [Full Version](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
        \n
        **1**. Posts must be related to the discussion of digital piracy\n
        \n
        **2**. Don’t request invites, trade, sell, or self-promote\n
        \n
        **3**. Don’t request or link to specific pirated titles, including DMs\n
        \n
        **4**. Don’t submit low-quality posts, be entitled, or harass others\n
        \n
        **5**. Don’t post questions already answered. READ THE [WIKI](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        [![](https://a.imagem.app/oZoQ1v.png)](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
        ---------------------------------------------------------------------------\n
        \n
        ### Loot, Pillage, & Plunder\n
        \n
        - [📜 Megathread](https://rentry.co/megathread)\n
        - [🪶 FAQ](https://rentry.co/piracy-faq)\n
        - [🪶 ISP Complaints](https://rentry.co/piracy-isp-complaints)\n
        - [🪶 Rules](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        💰 Please help cover server costs.\n
        \n
        [![Ko-Fi](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/4a2f073a-3dd8-492a-942d-72bd929c9f1d.png)](https://ko-fi.com/dbzer0)[![Liberapay](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/eec4659d-39be-4fc9-bc9e-66a96285ea2c.png)](https://liberapay.com/db0/)\n
        \n
        ---
        """
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      +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12691 …}
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        date: 2024-02-24 06:17:09.0 +01:00
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      +__isInitialized__: true
       …2
    }
    +image: null
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2956 …}
    +slug: "How-is-the-piracy-experience-on-an-iPad"
    +title: "How is the piracy experience on an iPad ?"
    +url: null
    +body: "So I am planning on buying an ipad, never owned one before. I have always been an android guy and from what I have heard Ipad os or ios is pretty restrictive in nature so I was wondering how much does it hamper the piracy experience. For example on android I can torrent files of any nature or size without any restrictions and sideload the apk’s of paid apps to enjoy them for free, can I still do all this on an ipad or should I just drop the idea and get an android tablet instead ?"
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    +ip: null
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    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3200 …}
    +children: [
      App\Entity\EntryComment {#2296
        +user: App\Entity\User {#259
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          +spamProtection: true
          +customCss: null
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          +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
          +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
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            date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
          }
        }
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2295 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1548 …2}
        +image: null
        +parent: null
        +root: null
        +body: "Torrent clients are banned from the Apple Store and you can’t sideload apps. It’s a very restrictive device in many respects."
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        }
        +ip: null
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        +mentions: [
          "@B3_CHAD@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2281 …}
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        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2279 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2277 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2220 …}
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        -bodyTs: "'app':14 'appl':7 'ban':4 'client':2 'devic':20 'mani':22 'respect':23 'restrict':19 'sideload':13 'store':8 'torrent':1"
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    ]
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700542790 {#3173
      date: 2023-11-21 05:59:50.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
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}
user_inline App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent 12.0 MiB 1.37 ms
Input props
[
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    +avatar: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#12779 …}
    +cover: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#12780 …}
    +email: "B3_CHAD@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
    +username: "@B3_CHAD@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
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      date: 2024-06-23 12:56:36.0 +02:00
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    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
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    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: false
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: true
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: true
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: true
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: true
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
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    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12781 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12783 …}
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    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12787 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12789 …}
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      date: 2023-10-13 18:29:20.0 +02:00
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     …2
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]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent {#12739
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2715
    +avatar: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#12779 …}
    +cover: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#12780 …}
    +email: "B3_CHAD@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
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      date: 2024-06-23 12:56:36.0 +02:00
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    +markedForDeletionAt: null
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    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12781 …}
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      date: 2023-10-13 18:29:20.0 +02:00
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     …2
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}
date App\Twig\Components\DateComponent 12.0 MiB 0.19 ms
Input props
[
  "date" => DateTimeImmutable @1700542790 {#3173
    date: 2023-11-21 05:59:50.0 +01:00
  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateComponent {#12854
  +date: DateTimeImmutable @1700542790 {#3173
    date: 2023-11-21 05:59:50.0 +01:00
  }
}
date_edited App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent 12.0 MiB 0.09 ms
Input props
[
  "createdAt" => DateTimeImmutable @1700542790 {#3173
    date: 2023-11-21 05:59:50.0 +01:00
  }
  "editedAt" => null
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent {#12908
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700542790 {#3173
    date: 2023-11-21 05:59:50.0 +01:00
  }
  +editedAt: null
}
magazine_inline App\Twig\Components\MagazineInlineComponent 14.0 MiB 0.22 ms
Input props
[
  "magazine" => Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1548
    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#12690 …}
    +name: "piracy@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
    +title: "piracy"
    +description: """
      ##### ⚓ Community devoted to in-depth debate on topics concerning digital piracy, ethical problems, and legal advancements.\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      ### Rules • [Full Version](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
      \n
      **1**. Posts must be related to the discussion of digital piracy\n
      \n
      **2**. Don’t request invites, trade, sell, or self-promote\n
      \n
      **3**. Don’t request or link to specific pirated titles, including DMs\n
      \n
      **4**. Don’t submit low-quality posts, be entitled, or harass others\n
      \n
      **5**. Don’t post questions already answered. READ THE [WIKI](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      [![](https://a.imagem.app/oZoQ1v.png)](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
      ---------------------------------------------------------------------------\n
      \n
      ### Loot, Pillage, & Plunder\n
      \n
      - [📜 Megathread](https://rentry.co/megathread)\n
      - [🪶 FAQ](https://rentry.co/piracy-faq)\n
      - [🪶 ISP Complaints](https://rentry.co/piracy-isp-complaints)\n
      - [🪶 Rules](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      💰 Please help cover server costs.\n
      \n
      [![Ko-Fi](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/4a2f073a-3dd8-492a-942d-72bd929c9f1d.png)](https://ko-fi.com/dbzer0)[![Liberapay](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/eec4659d-39be-4fc9-bc9e-66a96285ea2c.png)](https://liberapay.com/db0/)\n
      \n
      ---
      """
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    +postCount: 7
    +postCommentCount: 149
    +isAdult: false
    +customCss: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1727579107 {#12687
      date: 2024-09-29 03:05:07.944072 UTC (+00:00)
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +tags: null
    +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12691 …}
    +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12693 …}
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    +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12709 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12711 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12713 …}
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    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  "showAvatar" => false
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\MagazineInlineComponent {#12962
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    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#12690 …}
    +name: "piracy@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
    +title: "piracy"
    +description: """
      ##### ⚓ Community devoted to in-depth debate on topics concerning digital piracy, ethical problems, and legal advancements.\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      ### Rules • [Full Version](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
      \n
      **1**. Posts must be related to the discussion of digital piracy\n
      \n
      **2**. Don’t request invites, trade, sell, or self-promote\n
      \n
      **3**. Don’t request or link to specific pirated titles, including DMs\n
      \n
      **4**. Don’t submit low-quality posts, be entitled, or harass others\n
      \n
      **5**. Don’t post questions already answered. READ THE [WIKI](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      [![](https://a.imagem.app/oZoQ1v.png)](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
      ---------------------------------------------------------------------------\n
      \n
      ### Loot, Pillage, & Plunder\n
      \n
      - [📜 Megathread](https://rentry.co/megathread)\n
      - [🪶 FAQ](https://rentry.co/piracy-faq)\n
      - [🪶 ISP Complaints](https://rentry.co/piracy-isp-complaints)\n
      - [🪶 Rules](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      💰 Please help cover server costs.\n
      \n
      [![Ko-Fi](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/4a2f073a-3dd8-492a-942d-72bd929c9f1d.png)](https://ko-fi.com/dbzer0)[![Liberapay](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/eec4659d-39be-4fc9-bc9e-66a96285ea2c.png)](https://liberapay.com/db0/)\n
      \n
      ---
      """
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    +entryCommentCount: 19337
    +postCount: 7
    +postCommentCount: 149
    +isAdult: false
    +customCss: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1727579107 {#12687
      date: 2024-09-29 03:05:07.944072 UTC (+00:00)
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +tags: null
    +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12691 …}
    +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12693 …}
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    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
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      date: 2023-10-13 13:42:19.0 +02:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +showTitle: true
  +fullName: false
  +stretchedLink: false
  +showAvatar: false
}
vote App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent 14.0 MiB 0.39 ms
Input props
[
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    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2715
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      +customCss: null
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        date: 2023-10-13 18:29:20.0 +02:00
      }
      +__isInitialized__: true
       …2
    }
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1548
      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#12690 …}
      +name: "piracy@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
      +title: "piracy"
      +description: """
        ##### ⚓ Community devoted to in-depth debate on topics concerning digital piracy, ethical problems, and legal advancements.\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        ### Rules • [Full Version](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
        \n
        **1**. Posts must be related to the discussion of digital piracy\n
        \n
        **2**. Don’t request invites, trade, sell, or self-promote\n
        \n
        **3**. Don’t request or link to specific pirated titles, including DMs\n
        \n
        **4**. Don’t submit low-quality posts, be entitled, or harass others\n
        \n
        **5**. Don’t post questions already answered. READ THE [WIKI](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        [![](https://a.imagem.app/oZoQ1v.png)](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
        ---------------------------------------------------------------------------\n
        \n
        ### Loot, Pillage, & Plunder\n
        \n
        - [📜 Megathread](https://rentry.co/megathread)\n
        - [🪶 FAQ](https://rentry.co/piracy-faq)\n
        - [🪶 ISP Complaints](https://rentry.co/piracy-isp-complaints)\n
        - [🪶 Rules](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        💰 Please help cover server costs.\n
        \n
        [![Ko-Fi](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/4a2f073a-3dd8-492a-942d-72bd929c9f1d.png)](https://ko-fi.com/dbzer0)[![Liberapay](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/eec4659d-39be-4fc9-bc9e-66a96285ea2c.png)](https://liberapay.com/db0/)\n
        \n
        ---
        """
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        date: 2024-09-29 03:05:07.944072 UTC (+00:00)
      }
      +markedForDeletionAt: null
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      +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12691 …}
      +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12693 …}
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      -id: 51
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      +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1708751829 {#12688
        date: 2024-02-24 06:17:09.0 +01:00
      }
      +apDeletedAt: null
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      }
      +__isInitialized__: true
       …2
    }
    +image: null
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2956 …}
    +slug: "How-is-the-piracy-experience-on-an-iPad"
    +title: "How is the piracy experience on an iPad ?"
    +url: null
    +body: "So I am planning on buying an ipad, never owned one before. I have always been an android guy and from what I have heard Ipad os or ios is pretty restrictive in nature so I was wondering how much does it hamper the piracy experience. For example on android I can torrent files of any nature or size without any restrictions and sideload the apk’s of paid apps to enjoy them for free, can I still do all this on an ipad or should I just drop the idea and get an android tablet instead ?"
    +type: "article"
    +lang: "en"
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    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3151 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3192 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3194 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3196 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3198 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3200 …}
    +children: [
      App\Entity\EntryComment {#2296
        +user: App\Entity\User {#259
          +avatar: null
          +cover: null
          +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
          +username: "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
          +roles: []
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          }
          +markedForDeletionAt: null
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          +spamProtection: true
          +customCss: null
          +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
          +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
          +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
          +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#231 …}
          +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
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        }
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2295 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1548 …2}
        +image: null
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        +body: "Torrent clients are banned from the Apple Store and you can’t sideload apps. It’s a very restrictive device in many respects."
        +lang: "en"
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        +ip: null
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          "@B3_CHAD@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2281 …}
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        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2278 …}
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        -id: 145441
        -bodyTs: "'app':14 'appl':7 'ban':4 'client':2 'devic':20 'mani':22 'respect':23 'restrict':19 'sideload':13 'store':8 'torrent':1"
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    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent {#13018
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      +roles: []
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      +customCss: null
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    }
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      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#12690 …}
      +name: "piracy@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
      +title: "piracy"
      +description: """
        ##### ⚓ Community devoted to in-depth debate on topics concerning digital piracy, ethical problems, and legal advancements.\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        ### Rules • [Full Version](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
        \n
        **1**. Posts must be related to the discussion of digital piracy\n
        \n
        **2**. Don’t request invites, trade, sell, or self-promote\n
        \n
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        \n
        **4**. Don’t submit low-quality posts, be entitled, or harass others\n
        \n
        **5**. Don’t post questions already answered. READ THE [WIKI](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        [![](https://a.imagem.app/oZoQ1v.png)](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
        ---------------------------------------------------------------------------\n
        \n
        ### Loot, Pillage, & Plunder\n
        \n
        - [📜 Megathread](https://rentry.co/megathread)\n
        - [🪶 FAQ](https://rentry.co/piracy-faq)\n
        - [🪶 ISP Complaints](https://rentry.co/piracy-isp-complaints)\n
        - [🪶 Rules](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        💰 Please help cover server costs.\n
        \n
        [![Ko-Fi](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/4a2f073a-3dd8-492a-942d-72bd929c9f1d.png)](https://ko-fi.com/dbzer0)[![Liberapay](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/eec4659d-39be-4fc9-bc9e-66a96285ea2c.png)](https://liberapay.com/db0/)\n
        \n
        ---
        """
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    +image: null
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    +slug: "How-is-the-piracy-experience-on-an-iPad"
    +title: "How is the piracy experience on an iPad ?"
    +url: null
    +body: "So I am planning on buying an ipad, never owned one before. I have always been an android guy and from what I have heard Ipad os or ios is pretty restrictive in nature so I was wondering how much does it hamper the piracy experience. For example on android I can torrent files of any nature or size without any restrictions and sideload the apk’s of paid apps to enjoy them for free, can I still do all this on an ipad or should I just drop the idea and get an android tablet instead ?"
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boost App\Twig\Components\BoostComponent 14.0 MiB 0.65 ms
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      +description: """
        ##### ⚓ Community devoted to in-depth debate on topics concerning digital piracy, ethical problems, and legal advancements.\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        ### Rules • [Full Version](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
        \n
        **1**. Posts must be related to the discussion of digital piracy\n
        \n
        **2**. Don’t request invites, trade, sell, or self-promote\n
        \n
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        \n
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        \n
        **5**. Don’t post questions already answered. READ THE [WIKI](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        [![](https://a.imagem.app/oZoQ1v.png)](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
        ---------------------------------------------------------------------------\n
        \n
        ### Loot, Pillage, & Plunder\n
        \n
        - [📜 Megathread](https://rentry.co/megathread)\n
        - [🪶 FAQ](https://rentry.co/piracy-faq)\n
        - [🪶 ISP Complaints](https://rentry.co/piracy-isp-complaints)\n
        - [🪶 Rules](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        💰 Please help cover server costs.\n
        \n
        [![Ko-Fi](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/4a2f073a-3dd8-492a-942d-72bd929c9f1d.png)](https://ko-fi.com/dbzer0)[![Liberapay](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/eec4659d-39be-4fc9-bc9e-66a96285ea2c.png)](https://liberapay.com/db0/)\n
        \n
        ---
        """
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        ##### ⚓ Community devoted to in-depth debate on topics concerning digital piracy, ethical problems, and legal advancements.\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        ### Rules • [Full Version](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
        \n
        **1**. Posts must be related to the discussion of digital piracy\n
        \n
        **2**. Don’t request invites, trade, sell, or self-promote\n
        \n
        **3**. Don’t request or link to specific pirated titles, including DMs\n
        \n
        **4**. Don’t submit low-quality posts, be entitled, or harass others\n
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        **5**. Don’t post questions already answered. READ THE [WIKI](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        [![](https://a.imagem.app/oZoQ1v.png)](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
        ---------------------------------------------------------------------------\n
        \n
        ### Loot, Pillage, & Plunder\n
        \n
        - [📜 Megathread](https://rentry.co/megathread)\n
        - [🪶 FAQ](https://rentry.co/piracy-faq)\n
        - [🪶 ISP Complaints](https://rentry.co/piracy-isp-complaints)\n
        - [🪶 Rules](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        💰 Please help cover server costs.\n
        \n
        [![Ko-Fi](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/4a2f073a-3dd8-492a-942d-72bd929c9f1d.png)](https://ko-fi.com/dbzer0)[![Liberapay](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/eec4659d-39be-4fc9-bc9e-66a96285ea2c.png)](https://liberapay.com/db0/)\n
        \n
        ---
        """
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     …2
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  -cache: Symfony\Component\Cache\Adapter\TraceableTagAwareAdapter {#600 …}
}
entry_comment App\Twig\Components\EntryCommentComponent 14.0 MiB 192.60 ms
Input props
[
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         …2
      }
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        +description: """
          ##### ⚓ Community devoted to in-depth debate on topics concerning digital piracy, ethical problems, and legal advancements.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          ### Rules • [Full Version](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
          \n
          **1**. Posts must be related to the discussion of digital piracy\n
          \n
          **2**. Don’t request invites, trade, sell, or self-promote\n
          \n
          **3**. Don’t request or link to specific pirated titles, including DMs\n
          \n
          **4**. Don’t submit low-quality posts, be entitled, or harass others\n
          \n
          **5**. Don’t post questions already answered. READ THE [WIKI](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          [![](https://a.imagem.app/oZoQ1v.png)](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
          ---------------------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ### Loot, Pillage, & Plunder\n
          \n
          - [📜 Megathread](https://rentry.co/megathread)\n
          - [🪶 FAQ](https://rentry.co/piracy-faq)\n
          - [🪶 ISP Complaints](https://rentry.co/piracy-isp-complaints)\n
          - [🪶 Rules](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          💰 Please help cover server costs.\n
          \n
          [![Ko-Fi](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/4a2f073a-3dd8-492a-942d-72bd929c9f1d.png)](https://ko-fi.com/dbzer0)[![Liberapay](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/eec4659d-39be-4fc9-bc9e-66a96285ea2c.png)](https://liberapay.com/db0/)\n
          \n
          ---
          """
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         …2
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      +slug: "How-is-the-piracy-experience-on-an-iPad"
      +title: "How is the piracy experience on an iPad ?"
      +url: null
      +body: "So I am planning on buying an ipad, never owned one before. I have always been an android guy and from what I have heard Ipad os or ios is pretty restrictive in nature so I was wondering how much does it hamper the piracy experience. For example on android I can torrent files of any nature or size without any restrictions and sideload the apk’s of paid apps to enjoy them for free, can I still do all this on an ipad or should I just drop the idea and get an android tablet instead ?"
      +type: "article"
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       …2
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    +image: null
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    +body: "Torrent clients are banned from the Apple Store and you can’t sideload apps. It’s a very restrictive device in many respects."
    +lang: "en"
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]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\EntryCommentComponent {#13326
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        +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12781 …}
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        -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12833 …}
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          date: 2024-02-23 03:31:31.0 +01:00
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697214560 {#12778
          date: 2023-10-13 18:29:20.0 +02:00
        }
        +__isInitialized__: true
         …2
      }
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1548
        +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#12690 …}
        +name: "piracy@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        +title: "piracy"
        +description: """
          ##### ⚓ Community devoted to in-depth debate on topics concerning digital piracy, ethical problems, and legal advancements.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          ### Rules • [Full Version](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
          \n
          **1**. Posts must be related to the discussion of digital piracy\n
          \n
          **2**. Don’t request invites, trade, sell, or self-promote\n
          \n
          **3**. Don’t request or link to specific pirated titles, including DMs\n
          \n
          **4**. Don’t submit low-quality posts, be entitled, or harass others\n
          \n
          **5**. Don’t post questions already answered. READ THE [WIKI](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          [![](https://a.imagem.app/oZoQ1v.png)](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
          ---------------------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ### Loot, Pillage, & Plunder\n
          \n
          - [📜 Megathread](https://rentry.co/megathread)\n
          - [🪶 FAQ](https://rentry.co/piracy-faq)\n
          - [🪶 ISP Complaints](https://rentry.co/piracy-isp-complaints)\n
          - [🪶 Rules](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          💰 Please help cover server costs.\n
          \n
          [![Ko-Fi](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/4a2f073a-3dd8-492a-942d-72bd929c9f1d.png)](https://ko-fi.com/dbzer0)[![Liberapay](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/eec4659d-39be-4fc9-bc9e-66a96285ea2c.png)](https://liberapay.com/db0/)\n
          \n
          ---
          """
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          date: 2024-09-29 03:05:07.944072 UTC (+00:00)
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        +markedForDeletionAt: null
        +tags: null
        +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12691 …}
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        +__isInitialized__: true
         …2
      }
      +image: null
      +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2956 …}
      +slug: "How-is-the-piracy-experience-on-an-iPad"
      +title: "How is the piracy experience on an iPad ?"
      +url: null
      +body: "So I am planning on buying an ipad, never owned one before. I have always been an android guy and from what I have heard Ipad os or ios is pretty restrictive in nature so I was wondering how much does it hamper the piracy experience. For example on android I can torrent files of any nature or size without any restrictions and sideload the apk’s of paid apps to enjoy them for free, can I still do all this on an ipad or should I just drop the idea and get an android tablet instead ?"
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      +ip: null
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      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3198 …}
      +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3200 …}
      +children: [
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      ]
      -id: 14978
      -titleTs: "'experi':5 'ipad':8 'piraci':4"
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      }
      +__isInitialized__: true
       …2
    }
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1548 …2}
    +image: null
    +parent: null
    +root: null
    +body: "Torrent clients are banned from the Apple Store and you can’t sideload apps. It’s a very restrictive device in many respects."
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    +ip: null
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    +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2281 …}
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    +"title": 145441
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  +showMagazineName: false
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  +level: 1
  +canSeeTrash: false
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  -requestStack: Symfony\Component\HttpFoundation\RequestStack {#1328 …}
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}
user_inline App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent 14.0 MiB 0.30 ms
Input props
[
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    +customCss: null
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    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
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]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent {#13371
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      date: 2024-09-29 03:27:13.0 +02:00
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    +markedForDeletionAt: null
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    +customCss: null
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    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
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date App\Twig\Components\DateComponent 14.0 MiB 0.24 ms
Input props
[
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    date: 2023-11-21 06:11:11.0 +01:00
  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateComponent {#13427
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}
date_edited App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent 14.0 MiB 0.17 ms
Input props
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]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent {#13481
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    date: 2023-11-21 06:11:11.0 +01:00
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  +editedAt: null
}
user_avatar App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent 14.0 MiB 0.22 ms
Input props
[
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  "asLink" => true
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent {#13535
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    +markedForDeletionAt: null
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    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#161 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#134 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#104 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#77 …}
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    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1816 …}
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    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1868 …}
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    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1846 …}
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    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2410 …}
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      date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
    }
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}
vote App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent 14.0 MiB 0.55 ms
Input props
[
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    +user: App\Entity\User {#259
      +avatar: null
      +cover: null
      +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
      +username: "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
      +roles: []
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      +markedForDeletionAt: null
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      +customCss: null
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      +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
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      +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
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    +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2295
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          date: 2023-10-13 18:29:20.0 +02:00
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        +__isInitialized__: true
         …2
      }
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1548
        +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#12690 …}
        +name: "piracy@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        +title: "piracy"
        +description: """
          ##### ⚓ Community devoted to in-depth debate on topics concerning digital piracy, ethical problems, and legal advancements.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          ### Rules • [Full Version](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
          \n
          **1**. Posts must be related to the discussion of digital piracy\n
          \n
          **2**. Don’t request invites, trade, sell, or self-promote\n
          \n
          **3**. Don’t request or link to specific pirated titles, including DMs\n
          \n
          **4**. Don’t submit low-quality posts, be entitled, or harass others\n
          \n
          **5**. Don’t post questions already answered. READ THE [WIKI](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          [![](https://a.imagem.app/oZoQ1v.png)](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
          ---------------------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ### Loot, Pillage, & Plunder\n
          \n
          - [📜 Megathread](https://rentry.co/megathread)\n
          - [🪶 FAQ](https://rentry.co/piracy-faq)\n
          - [🪶 ISP Complaints](https://rentry.co/piracy-isp-complaints)\n
          - [🪶 Rules](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          💰 Please help cover server costs.\n
          \n
          [![Ko-Fi](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/4a2f073a-3dd8-492a-942d-72bd929c9f1d.png)](https://ko-fi.com/dbzer0)[![Liberapay](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/eec4659d-39be-4fc9-bc9e-66a96285ea2c.png)](https://liberapay.com/db0/)\n
          \n
          ---
          """
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        -id: 51
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        +__isInitialized__: true
         …2
      }
      +image: null
      +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2956 …}
      +slug: "How-is-the-piracy-experience-on-an-iPad"
      +title: "How is the piracy experience on an iPad ?"
      +url: null
      +body: "So I am planning on buying an ipad, never owned one before. I have always been an android guy and from what I have heard Ipad os or ios is pretty restrictive in nature so I was wondering how much does it hamper the piracy experience. For example on android I can torrent files of any nature or size without any restrictions and sideload the apk’s of paid apps to enjoy them for free, can I still do all this on an ipad or should I just drop the idea and get an android tablet instead ?"
      +type: "article"
      +lang: "en"
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      +hasEmbed: false
      +commentCount: 49
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        date: 2023-11-24 05:38:11.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
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      +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3151 …}
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      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3198 …}
      +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3200 …}
      +children: [
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      ]
      -id: 14978
      -titleTs: "'experi':5 'ipad':8 'piraci':4"
      -bodyTs: "'alway':15 'android':18,50,95 'apk':66 'app':70 'buy':6 'drop':89 'enjoy':72 'exampl':48 'experi':46 'file':54 'free':75 'get':93 'guy':19 'hamper':43 'heard':25 'idea':91 'instead':97 'io':29 'ipad':8,26,84 'much':40 'natur':34,57 'never':9 'one':11 'os':27 'own':10 'paid':69 'piraci':45 'plan':4 'pretti':31 'restrict':32,62 'sideload':64 'size':59 'still':78 'tablet':96 'torrent':53 'without':60 'wonder':38"
      +cross: false
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        date: 2023-11-21 05:59:50.0 +01:00
      }
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       …2
    }
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1548 …2}
    +image: null
    +parent: null
    +root: null
    +body: "Torrent clients are banned from the Apple Store and you can’t sideload apps. It’s a very restrictive device in many respects."
    +lang: "en"
    +isAdult: false
    +favouriteCount: 57
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    +ip: null
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    ]
    +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2281 …}
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    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2278 …}
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    -id: 145441
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]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent {#13604
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      +customCss: null
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      +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
      +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
      +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#231 …}
      +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
      +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#161 …}
      +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#134 …}
      +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#104 …}
      +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#77 …}
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      +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1816 …}
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      +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1846 …}
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          date: 2023-10-13 18:29:20.0 +02:00
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        +__isInitialized__: true
         …2
      }
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        +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#12690 …}
        +name: "piracy@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        +title: "piracy"
        +description: """
          ##### ⚓ Community devoted to in-depth debate on topics concerning digital piracy, ethical problems, and legal advancements.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          ### Rules • [Full Version](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
          \n
          **1**. Posts must be related to the discussion of digital piracy\n
          \n
          **2**. Don’t request invites, trade, sell, or self-promote\n
          \n
          **3**. Don’t request or link to specific pirated titles, including DMs\n
          \n
          **4**. Don’t submit low-quality posts, be entitled, or harass others\n
          \n
          **5**. Don’t post questions already answered. READ THE [WIKI](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          [![](https://a.imagem.app/oZoQ1v.png)](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
          ---------------------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ### Loot, Pillage, & Plunder\n
          \n
          - [📜 Megathread](https://rentry.co/megathread)\n
          - [🪶 FAQ](https://rentry.co/piracy-faq)\n
          - [🪶 ISP Complaints](https://rentry.co/piracy-isp-complaints)\n
          - [🪶 Rules](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          💰 Please help cover server costs.\n
          \n
          [![Ko-Fi](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/4a2f073a-3dd8-492a-942d-72bd929c9f1d.png)](https://ko-fi.com/dbzer0)[![Liberapay](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/eec4659d-39be-4fc9-bc9e-66a96285ea2c.png)](https://liberapay.com/db0/)\n
          \n
          ---
          """
        +rules: null
        +subscriptionsCount: 1
        +entryCount: 826
        +entryCommentCount: 19337
        +postCount: 7
        +postCommentCount: 149
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2024-09-29 03:05:07.944072 UTC (+00:00)
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        +markedForDeletionAt: null
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        +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12691 …}
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        +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12709 …}
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        -id: 51
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        +apPreferredUsername: "piracy"
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          date: 2024-02-24 06:17:09.0 +01:00
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        +apDeletedAt: null
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        +__isInitialized__: true
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      }
      +image: null
      +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2956 …}
      +slug: "How-is-the-piracy-experience-on-an-iPad"
      +title: "How is the piracy experience on an iPad ?"
      +url: null
      +body: "So I am planning on buying an ipad, never owned one before. I have always been an android guy and from what I have heard Ipad os or ios is pretty restrictive in nature so I was wondering how much does it hamper the piracy experience. For example on android I can torrent files of any nature or size without any restrictions and sideload the apk’s of paid apps to enjoy them for free, can I still do all this on an ipad or should I just drop the idea and get an android tablet instead ?"
      +type: "article"
      +lang: "en"
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      +commentCount: 49
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        date: 2023-11-24 05:38:11.0 +01:00
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      +ip: null
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      +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3151 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3192 …}
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      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3198 …}
      +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3200 …}
      +children: [
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      ]
      -id: 14978
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      +cross: false
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        date: 2023-11-21 05:59:50.0 +01:00
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      +__isInitialized__: true
       …2
    }
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1548 …2}
    +image: null
    +parent: null
    +root: null
    +body: "Torrent clients are banned from the Apple Store and you can’t sideload apps. It’s a very restrictive device in many respects."
    +lang: "en"
    +isAdult: false
    +favouriteCount: 57
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    +ip: null
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    +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2281 …}
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    +"title": 145441
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}
boost App\Twig\Components\BoostComponent 14.0 MiB 0.84 ms
Input props
[
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        date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
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        +markedForDeletionAt: null
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        +customCss: null
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        +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12781 …}
        +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12783 …}
        +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12785 …}
        +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12787 …}
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          date: 2023-10-13 18:29:20.0 +02:00
        }
        +__isInitialized__: true
         …2
      }
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1548
        +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#12690 …}
        +name: "piracy@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        +title: "piracy"
        +description: """
          ##### ⚓ Community devoted to in-depth debate on topics concerning digital piracy, ethical problems, and legal advancements.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          ### Rules • [Full Version](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
          \n
          **1**. Posts must be related to the discussion of digital piracy\n
          \n
          **2**. Don’t request invites, trade, sell, or self-promote\n
          \n
          **3**. Don’t request or link to specific pirated titles, including DMs\n
          \n
          **4**. Don’t submit low-quality posts, be entitled, or harass others\n
          \n
          **5**. Don’t post questions already answered. READ THE [WIKI](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          [![](https://a.imagem.app/oZoQ1v.png)](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
          ---------------------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ### Loot, Pillage, & Plunder\n
          \n
          - [📜 Megathread](https://rentry.co/megathread)\n
          - [🪶 FAQ](https://rentry.co/piracy-faq)\n
          - [🪶 ISP Complaints](https://rentry.co/piracy-isp-complaints)\n
          - [🪶 Rules](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          💰 Please help cover server costs.\n
          \n
          [![Ko-Fi](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/4a2f073a-3dd8-492a-942d-72bd929c9f1d.png)](https://ko-fi.com/dbzer0)[![Liberapay](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/eec4659d-39be-4fc9-bc9e-66a96285ea2c.png)](https://liberapay.com/db0/)\n
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      +title: "How is the piracy experience on an iPad ?"
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Attributes
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Component
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         …2
      }
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1548
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        +name: "piracy@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        +title: "piracy"
        +description: """
          ##### ⚓ Community devoted to in-depth debate on topics concerning digital piracy, ethical problems, and legal advancements.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          ### Rules • [Full Version](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
          \n
          **1**. Posts must be related to the discussion of digital piracy\n
          \n
          **2**. Don’t request invites, trade, sell, or self-promote\n
          \n
          **3**. Don’t request or link to specific pirated titles, including DMs\n
          \n
          **4**. Don’t submit low-quality posts, be entitled, or harass others\n
          \n
          **5**. Don’t post questions already answered. READ THE [WIKI](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          [![](https://a.imagem.app/oZoQ1v.png)](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
          ---------------------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ### Loot, Pillage, & Plunder\n
          \n
          - [📜 Megathread](https://rentry.co/megathread)\n
          - [🪶 FAQ](https://rentry.co/piracy-faq)\n
          - [🪶 ISP Complaints](https://rentry.co/piracy-isp-complaints)\n
          - [🪶 Rules](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          💰 Please help cover server costs.\n
          \n
          [![Ko-Fi](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/4a2f073a-3dd8-492a-942d-72bd929c9f1d.png)](https://ko-fi.com/dbzer0)[![Liberapay](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/eec4659d-39be-4fc9-bc9e-66a96285ea2c.png)](https://liberapay.com/db0/)\n
          \n
          ---
          """
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       …2
    }
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}
entry App\Twig\Components\EntryComponent 14.0 MiB 170.90 ms
Input props
[
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        [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
        \n
        Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
        \n
        Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
        \n
        ##### **Rules**\n
        \n
        **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
        \n
        All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
        \n
        **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
        \n
        This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
        \n
        **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
        \n
        Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
        \n
        **4. Assume good faith.**\n
        \n
        Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
        \n
        **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
        \n
        Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
        \n
        **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
        \n
        Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
        \n
        #### **Episode Guides**\n
        \n
        The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
        \n
        - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
        - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
        - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
        - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
        """
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    +title: "Where Are All The Bicycles??"
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    +body: """
      I have an issue in general with scifi totally ignoring the existence of bicycles, but star trek is particularly fun to think about since in so many situations beaming down in an away team with electric mountain bicycles would be incredibly useful in a basic utilitarian sense. Like shuttles, bicycles could be treated as disposable if needed, you can always replicate more right?\n
      \n
      You also don’t need to build up any infrastructure on a planet for bicycles to function as transit system for huge amounts of people. A starship could arrive into a humanitarian aid situation, quickly adjust a bicycle blueprint for whatever bipedal humanoid lived on the planet, replicate a metric sh*&ton of alien bicycles and beam them down to the planet on mass. It wouldn’t require longterm maintenance, lengthy training of local aliens on how to use, or return visits to resupply complex parts. A starship could drop bicycles, spare parts and maintenance gear and then leave and the citizens of that planet would be able to benefit from that for… decades? Even more? I am sure the instruction manuals would get super long with all the alien languages though…\n
      \n
      Even if bicycles weren’t being used as tools or transportation in a far future like star trek, there is no reason humans would stop wanting to bicycle recreationally or for exercise. Also you could go on crazy mountain biking rides on the holodeck right? I can’t see how people wouldn’t be doing that all the time along with skiing, surfing and other sports that are scary but exhilarating. Further, I think it is likely most bipedal aliens would have discovered bicycles at some point along the development into advanced technological civilizations. It would be really weird if only humans discovered them.\n
      \n
      TNG in particular is egregious for not having bicycles since the NCC-1701 is so cavernous that unless you always used the turbolifts you probably are going to need a bicycle to get anywhere quickly…\n
      \n
      What do yall think? Should star trek have more bicycles?
      """
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      +title: "daystrominstitute"
      +description: """
        [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
        \n
        Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
        \n
        Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
        \n
        ##### **Rules**\n
        \n
        **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
        \n
        All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
        \n
        **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
        \n
        This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
        \n
        **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
        \n
        Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
        \n
        **4. Assume good faith.**\n
        \n
        Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
        \n
        **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
        \n
        Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
        \n
        **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
        \n
        Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
        \n
        #### **Episode Guides**\n
        \n
        The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
        \n
        - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
        - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
        - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
        - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
        """
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    +slug: "Where-Are-All-The-Bicycles"
    +title: "Where Are All The Bicycles??"
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    +body: """
      I have an issue in general with scifi totally ignoring the existence of bicycles, but star trek is particularly fun to think about since in so many situations beaming down in an away team with electric mountain bicycles would be incredibly useful in a basic utilitarian sense. Like shuttles, bicycles could be treated as disposable if needed, you can always replicate more right?\n
      \n
      You also don’t need to build up any infrastructure on a planet for bicycles to function as transit system for huge amounts of people. A starship could arrive into a humanitarian aid situation, quickly adjust a bicycle blueprint for whatever bipedal humanoid lived on the planet, replicate a metric sh*&ton of alien bicycles and beam them down to the planet on mass. It wouldn’t require longterm maintenance, lengthy training of local aliens on how to use, or return visits to resupply complex parts. A starship could drop bicycles, spare parts and maintenance gear and then leave and the citizens of that planet would be able to benefit from that for… decades? Even more? I am sure the instruction manuals would get super long with all the alien languages though…\n
      \n
      Even if bicycles weren’t being used as tools or transportation in a far future like star trek, there is no reason humans would stop wanting to bicycle recreationally or for exercise. Also you could go on crazy mountain biking rides on the holodeck right? I can’t see how people wouldn’t be doing that all the time along with skiing, surfing and other sports that are scary but exhilarating. Further, I think it is likely most bipedal aliens would have discovered bicycles at some point along the development into advanced technological civilizations. It would be really weird if only humans discovered them.\n
      \n
      TNG in particular is egregious for not having bicycles since the NCC-1701 is so cavernous that unless you always used the turbolifts you probably are going to need a bicycle to get anywhere quickly…\n
      \n
      What do yall think? Should star trek have more bicycles?
      """
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date_edited App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent 14.0 MiB 0.17 ms
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magazine_inline App\Twig\Components\MagazineInlineComponent 14.0 MiB 0.15 ms
Input props
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      \n
      Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
      \n
      Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
      \n
      ##### **Rules**\n
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      **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
      \n
      All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
      \n
      **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
      \n
      This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
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      **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
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      **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
      \n
      Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
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      #### **Episode Guides**\n
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      - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
      - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
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      - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
      - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
      - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
      - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
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      \n
      Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
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      \n
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      \n
      Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
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      #### **Episode Guides**\n
      \n
      The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
      \n
      - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
      - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
      - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
      - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
      - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
      - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
      - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
      """
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vote App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent 14.0 MiB 0.53 ms
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        [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
        \n
        Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
        \n
        Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
        \n
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        \n
        **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
        \n
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        **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
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        #### **Episode Guides**\n
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        The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
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        - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
        - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
        - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
        - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
        """
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    +body: """
      I have an issue in general with scifi totally ignoring the existence of bicycles, but star trek is particularly fun to think about since in so many situations beaming down in an away team with electric mountain bicycles would be incredibly useful in a basic utilitarian sense. Like shuttles, bicycles could be treated as disposable if needed, you can always replicate more right?\n
      \n
      You also don’t need to build up any infrastructure on a planet for bicycles to function as transit system for huge amounts of people. A starship could arrive into a humanitarian aid situation, quickly adjust a bicycle blueprint for whatever bipedal humanoid lived on the planet, replicate a metric sh*&ton of alien bicycles and beam them down to the planet on mass. It wouldn’t require longterm maintenance, lengthy training of local aliens on how to use, or return visits to resupply complex parts. A starship could drop bicycles, spare parts and maintenance gear and then leave and the citizens of that planet would be able to benefit from that for… decades? Even more? I am sure the instruction manuals would get super long with all the alien languages though…\n
      \n
      Even if bicycles weren’t being used as tools or transportation in a far future like star trek, there is no reason humans would stop wanting to bicycle recreationally or for exercise. Also you could go on crazy mountain biking rides on the holodeck right? I can’t see how people wouldn’t be doing that all the time along with skiing, surfing and other sports that are scary but exhilarating. Further, I think it is likely most bipedal aliens would have discovered bicycles at some point along the development into advanced technological civilizations. It would be really weird if only humans discovered them.\n
      \n
      TNG in particular is egregious for not having bicycles since the NCC-1701 is so cavernous that unless you always used the turbolifts you probably are going to need a bicycle to get anywhere quickly…\n
      \n
      What do yall think? Should star trek have more bicycles?
      """
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        [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
        \n
        Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
        \n
        Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
        \n
        ##### **Rules**\n
        \n
        **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
        \n
        All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
        \n
        **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
        \n
        This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
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        **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
        \n
        Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
        \n
        **4. Assume good faith.**\n
        \n
        Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
        \n
        **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
        \n
        Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
        \n
        **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
        \n
        Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
        \n
        #### **Episode Guides**\n
        \n
        The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
        \n
        - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
        - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
        - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
        - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
        """
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    +body: """
      I have an issue in general with scifi totally ignoring the existence of bicycles, but star trek is particularly fun to think about since in so many situations beaming down in an away team with electric mountain bicycles would be incredibly useful in a basic utilitarian sense. Like shuttles, bicycles could be treated as disposable if needed, you can always replicate more right?\n
      \n
      You also don’t need to build up any infrastructure on a planet for bicycles to function as transit system for huge amounts of people. A starship could arrive into a humanitarian aid situation, quickly adjust a bicycle blueprint for whatever bipedal humanoid lived on the planet, replicate a metric sh*&ton of alien bicycles and beam them down to the planet on mass. It wouldn’t require longterm maintenance, lengthy training of local aliens on how to use, or return visits to resupply complex parts. A starship could drop bicycles, spare parts and maintenance gear and then leave and the citizens of that planet would be able to benefit from that for… decades? Even more? I am sure the instruction manuals would get super long with all the alien languages though…\n
      \n
      Even if bicycles weren’t being used as tools or transportation in a far future like star trek, there is no reason humans would stop wanting to bicycle recreationally or for exercise. Also you could go on crazy mountain biking rides on the holodeck right? I can’t see how people wouldn’t be doing that all the time along with skiing, surfing and other sports that are scary but exhilarating. Further, I think it is likely most bipedal aliens would have discovered bicycles at some point along the development into advanced technological civilizations. It would be really weird if only humans discovered them.\n
      \n
      TNG in particular is egregious for not having bicycles since the NCC-1701 is so cavernous that unless you always used the turbolifts you probably are going to need a bicycle to get anywhere quickly…\n
      \n
      What do yall think? Should star trek have more bicycles?
      """
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        \n
        Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
        \n
        Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
        \n
        ##### **Rules**\n
        \n
        **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
        \n
        All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
        \n
        **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
        \n
        This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
        \n
        **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
        \n
        Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
        \n
        **4. Assume good faith.**\n
        \n
        Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
        \n
        **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
        \n
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        \n
        **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
        \n
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        \n
        #### **Episode Guides**\n
        \n
        The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
        \n
        - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
        - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
        - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
        - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
        """
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    +body: """
      I have an issue in general with scifi totally ignoring the existence of bicycles, but star trek is particularly fun to think about since in so many situations beaming down in an away team with electric mountain bicycles would be incredibly useful in a basic utilitarian sense. Like shuttles, bicycles could be treated as disposable if needed, you can always replicate more right?\n
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      You also don’t need to build up any infrastructure on a planet for bicycles to function as transit system for huge amounts of people. A starship could arrive into a humanitarian aid situation, quickly adjust a bicycle blueprint for whatever bipedal humanoid lived on the planet, replicate a metric sh*&ton of alien bicycles and beam them down to the planet on mass. It wouldn’t require longterm maintenance, lengthy training of local aliens on how to use, or return visits to resupply complex parts. A starship could drop bicycles, spare parts and maintenance gear and then leave and the citizens of that planet would be able to benefit from that for… decades? Even more? I am sure the instruction manuals would get super long with all the alien languages though…\n
      \n
      Even if bicycles weren’t being used as tools or transportation in a far future like star trek, there is no reason humans would stop wanting to bicycle recreationally or for exercise. Also you could go on crazy mountain biking rides on the holodeck right? I can’t see how people wouldn’t be doing that all the time along with skiing, surfing and other sports that are scary but exhilarating. Further, I think it is likely most bipedal aliens would have discovered bicycles at some point along the development into advanced technological civilizations. It would be really weird if only humans discovered them.\n
      \n
      TNG in particular is egregious for not having bicycles since the NCC-1701 is so cavernous that unless you always used the turbolifts you probably are going to need a bicycle to get anywhere quickly…\n
      \n
      What do yall think? Should star trek have more bicycles?
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        [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
        \n
        Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
        \n
        Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
        \n
        ##### **Rules**\n
        \n
        **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
        \n
        All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
        \n
        **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
        \n
        This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
        \n
        **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
        \n
        Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
        \n
        **4. Assume good faith.**\n
        \n
        Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
        \n
        **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
        \n
        Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
        \n
        **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
        \n
        Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
        \n
        #### **Episode Guides**\n
        \n
        The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
        \n
        - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
        - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
        - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
        - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
        """
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    +title: "Where Are All The Bicycles??"
    +url: "https://startrek.website/pictrs/image/9caf7721-4877-4e86-8043-77878f87561e.jpeg"
    +body: """
      I have an issue in general with scifi totally ignoring the existence of bicycles, but star trek is particularly fun to think about since in so many situations beaming down in an away team with electric mountain bicycles would be incredibly useful in a basic utilitarian sense. Like shuttles, bicycles could be treated as disposable if needed, you can always replicate more right?\n
      \n
      You also don’t need to build up any infrastructure on a planet for bicycles to function as transit system for huge amounts of people. A starship could arrive into a humanitarian aid situation, quickly adjust a bicycle blueprint for whatever bipedal humanoid lived on the planet, replicate a metric sh*&ton of alien bicycles and beam them down to the planet on mass. It wouldn’t require longterm maintenance, lengthy training of local aliens on how to use, or return visits to resupply complex parts. A starship could drop bicycles, spare parts and maintenance gear and then leave and the citizens of that planet would be able to benefit from that for… decades? Even more? I am sure the instruction manuals would get super long with all the alien languages though…\n
      \n
      Even if bicycles weren’t being used as tools or transportation in a far future like star trek, there is no reason humans would stop wanting to bicycle recreationally or for exercise. Also you could go on crazy mountain biking rides on the holodeck right? I can’t see how people wouldn’t be doing that all the time along with skiing, surfing and other sports that are scary but exhilarating. Further, I think it is likely most bipedal aliens would have discovered bicycles at some point along the development into advanced technological civilizations. It would be really weird if only humans discovered them.\n
      \n
      TNG in particular is egregious for not having bicycles since the NCC-1701 is so cavernous that unless you always used the turbolifts you probably are going to need a bicycle to get anywhere quickly…\n
      \n
      What do yall think? Should star trek have more bicycles?
      """
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        +body: "I’m always reminded of Star Trek when I’m watching… Bond movies. The smorgasbord of over-the-top tech he’s using and the casual manner in which he keeps pulling them out at the right moment feels like should be right at home in the Federation."
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +slug: "Where-Are-All-The-Bicycles"
      +title: "Where Are All The Bicycles??"
      +url: "https://startrek.website/pictrs/image/9caf7721-4877-4e86-8043-77878f87561e.jpeg"
      +body: """
        I have an issue in general with scifi totally ignoring the existence of bicycles, but star trek is particularly fun to think about since in so many situations beaming down in an away team with electric mountain bicycles would be incredibly useful in a basic utilitarian sense. Like shuttles, bicycles could be treated as disposable if needed, you can always replicate more right?\n
        \n
        You also don’t need to build up any infrastructure on a planet for bicycles to function as transit system for huge amounts of people. A starship could arrive into a humanitarian aid situation, quickly adjust a bicycle blueprint for whatever bipedal humanoid lived on the planet, replicate a metric sh*&ton of alien bicycles and beam them down to the planet on mass. It wouldn’t require longterm maintenance, lengthy training of local aliens on how to use, or return visits to resupply complex parts. A starship could drop bicycles, spare parts and maintenance gear and then leave and the citizens of that planet would be able to benefit from that for… decades? Even more? I am sure the instruction manuals would get super long with all the alien languages though…\n
        \n
        Even if bicycles weren’t being used as tools or transportation in a far future like star trek, there is no reason humans would stop wanting to bicycle recreationally or for exercise. Also you could go on crazy mountain biking rides on the holodeck right? I can’t see how people wouldn’t be doing that all the time along with skiing, surfing and other sports that are scary but exhilarating. Further, I think it is likely most bipedal aliens would have discovered bicycles at some point along the development into advanced technological civilizations. It would be really weird if only humans discovered them.\n
        \n
        TNG in particular is egregious for not having bicycles since the NCC-1701 is so cavernous that unless you always used the turbolifts you probably are going to need a bicycle to get anywhere quickly…\n
        \n
        What do yall think? Should star trek have more bicycles?
        """
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    +body: "I’m always reminded of Star Trek when I’m watching… Bond movies. The smorgasbord of over-the-top tech he’s using and the casual manner in which he keeps pulling them out at the right moment feels like should be right at home in the Federation."
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        +name: "daystrominstitute@startrek.website"
        +title: "daystrominstitute"
        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +slug: "Where-Are-All-The-Bicycles"
      +title: "Where Are All The Bicycles??"
      +url: "https://startrek.website/pictrs/image/9caf7721-4877-4e86-8043-77878f87561e.jpeg"
      +body: """
        I have an issue in general with scifi totally ignoring the existence of bicycles, but star trek is particularly fun to think about since in so many situations beaming down in an away team with electric mountain bicycles would be incredibly useful in a basic utilitarian sense. Like shuttles, bicycles could be treated as disposable if needed, you can always replicate more right?\n
        \n
        You also don’t need to build up any infrastructure on a planet for bicycles to function as transit system for huge amounts of people. A starship could arrive into a humanitarian aid situation, quickly adjust a bicycle blueprint for whatever bipedal humanoid lived on the planet, replicate a metric sh*&ton of alien bicycles and beam them down to the planet on mass. It wouldn’t require longterm maintenance, lengthy training of local aliens on how to use, or return visits to resupply complex parts. A starship could drop bicycles, spare parts and maintenance gear and then leave and the citizens of that planet would be able to benefit from that for… decades? Even more? I am sure the instruction manuals would get super long with all the alien languages though…\n
        \n
        Even if bicycles weren’t being used as tools or transportation in a far future like star trek, there is no reason humans would stop wanting to bicycle recreationally or for exercise. Also you could go on crazy mountain biking rides on the holodeck right? I can’t see how people wouldn’t be doing that all the time along with skiing, surfing and other sports that are scary but exhilarating. Further, I think it is likely most bipedal aliens would have discovered bicycles at some point along the development into advanced technological civilizations. It would be really weird if only humans discovered them.\n
        \n
        TNG in particular is egregious for not having bicycles since the NCC-1701 is so cavernous that unless you always used the turbolifts you probably are going to need a bicycle to get anywhere quickly…\n
        \n
        What do yall think? Should star trek have more bicycles?
        """
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       …2
    }
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    +image: null
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    +body: "I’m always reminded of Star Trek when I’m watching… Bond movies. The smorgasbord of over-the-top tech he’s using and the casual manner in which he keeps pulling them out at the right moment feels like should be right at home in the Federation."
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Component
App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent {#10702
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vote App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent 14.0 MiB 0.56 ms
Input props
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         …2
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        +name: "daystrominstitute@startrek.website"
        +title: "daystrominstitute"
        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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         …2
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      +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3133 …}
      +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3135 …}
      +slug: "Where-Are-All-The-Bicycles"
      +title: "Where Are All The Bicycles??"
      +url: "https://startrek.website/pictrs/image/9caf7721-4877-4e86-8043-77878f87561e.jpeg"
      +body: """
        I have an issue in general with scifi totally ignoring the existence of bicycles, but star trek is particularly fun to think about since in so many situations beaming down in an away team with electric mountain bicycles would be incredibly useful in a basic utilitarian sense. Like shuttles, bicycles could be treated as disposable if needed, you can always replicate more right?\n
        \n
        You also don’t need to build up any infrastructure on a planet for bicycles to function as transit system for huge amounts of people. A starship could arrive into a humanitarian aid situation, quickly adjust a bicycle blueprint for whatever bipedal humanoid lived on the planet, replicate a metric sh*&ton of alien bicycles and beam them down to the planet on mass. It wouldn’t require longterm maintenance, lengthy training of local aliens on how to use, or return visits to resupply complex parts. A starship could drop bicycles, spare parts and maintenance gear and then leave and the citizens of that planet would be able to benefit from that for… decades? Even more? I am sure the instruction manuals would get super long with all the alien languages though…\n
        \n
        Even if bicycles weren’t being used as tools or transportation in a far future like star trek, there is no reason humans would stop wanting to bicycle recreationally or for exercise. Also you could go on crazy mountain biking rides on the holodeck right? I can’t see how people wouldn’t be doing that all the time along with skiing, surfing and other sports that are scary but exhilarating. Further, I think it is likely most bipedal aliens would have discovered bicycles at some point along the development into advanced technological civilizations. It would be really weird if only humans discovered them.\n
        \n
        TNG in particular is egregious for not having bicycles since the NCC-1701 is so cavernous that unless you always used the turbolifts you probably are going to need a bicycle to get anywhere quickly…\n
        \n
        What do yall think? Should star trek have more bicycles?
        """
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
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          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
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          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +body: """
        I have an issue in general with scifi totally ignoring the existence of bicycles, but star trek is particularly fun to think about since in so many situations beaming down in an away team with electric mountain bicycles would be incredibly useful in a basic utilitarian sense. Like shuttles, bicycles could be treated as disposable if needed, you can always replicate more right?\n
        \n
        You also don’t need to build up any infrastructure on a planet for bicycles to function as transit system for huge amounts of people. A starship could arrive into a humanitarian aid situation, quickly adjust a bicycle blueprint for whatever bipedal humanoid lived on the planet, replicate a metric sh*&ton of alien bicycles and beam them down to the planet on mass. It wouldn’t require longterm maintenance, lengthy training of local aliens on how to use, or return visits to resupply complex parts. A starship could drop bicycles, spare parts and maintenance gear and then leave and the citizens of that planet would be able to benefit from that for… decades? Even more? I am sure the instruction manuals would get super long with all the alien languages though…\n
        \n
        Even if bicycles weren’t being used as tools or transportation in a far future like star trek, there is no reason humans would stop wanting to bicycle recreationally or for exercise. Also you could go on crazy mountain biking rides on the holodeck right? I can’t see how people wouldn’t be doing that all the time along with skiing, surfing and other sports that are scary but exhilarating. Further, I think it is likely most bipedal aliens would have discovered bicycles at some point along the development into advanced technological civilizations. It would be really weird if only humans discovered them.\n
        \n
        TNG in particular is egregious for not having bicycles since the NCC-1701 is so cavernous that unless you always used the turbolifts you probably are going to need a bicycle to get anywhere quickly…\n
        \n
        What do yall think? Should star trek have more bicycles?
        """
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  -cache: Symfony\Component\Cache\Adapter\TraceableTagAwareAdapter {#600 …}
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boost App\Twig\Components\BoostComponent 14.0 MiB 0.90 ms
Input props
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        +title: "daystrominstitute"
        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3133 …}
      +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3135 …}
      +slug: "Where-Are-All-The-Bicycles"
      +title: "Where Are All The Bicycles??"
      +url: "https://startrek.website/pictrs/image/9caf7721-4877-4e86-8043-77878f87561e.jpeg"
      +body: """
        I have an issue in general with scifi totally ignoring the existence of bicycles, but star trek is particularly fun to think about since in so many situations beaming down in an away team with electric mountain bicycles would be incredibly useful in a basic utilitarian sense. Like shuttles, bicycles could be treated as disposable if needed, you can always replicate more right?\n
        \n
        You also don’t need to build up any infrastructure on a planet for bicycles to function as transit system for huge amounts of people. A starship could arrive into a humanitarian aid situation, quickly adjust a bicycle blueprint for whatever bipedal humanoid lived on the planet, replicate a metric sh*&ton of alien bicycles and beam them down to the planet on mass. It wouldn’t require longterm maintenance, lengthy training of local aliens on how to use, or return visits to resupply complex parts. A starship could drop bicycles, spare parts and maintenance gear and then leave and the citizens of that planet would be able to benefit from that for… decades? Even more? I am sure the instruction manuals would get super long with all the alien languages though…\n
        \n
        Even if bicycles weren’t being used as tools or transportation in a far future like star trek, there is no reason humans would stop wanting to bicycle recreationally or for exercise. Also you could go on crazy mountain biking rides on the holodeck right? I can’t see how people wouldn’t be doing that all the time along with skiing, surfing and other sports that are scary but exhilarating. Further, I think it is likely most bipedal aliens would have discovered bicycles at some point along the development into advanced technological civilizations. It would be really weird if only humans discovered them.\n
        \n
        TNG in particular is egregious for not having bicycles since the NCC-1701 is so cavernous that unless you always used the turbolifts you probably are going to need a bicycle to get anywhere quickly…\n
        \n
        What do yall think? Should star trek have more bicycles?
        """
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      -id: 13718
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       …2
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    +body: "I’m always reminded of Star Trek when I’m watching… Bond movies. The smorgasbord of over-the-top tech he’s using and the casual manner in which he keeps pulling them out at the right moment feels like should be right at home in the Federation."
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]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\BoostComponent {#14576
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        +name: "daystrominstitute@startrek.website"
        +title: "daystrominstitute"
        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3133 …}
      +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3135 …}
      +slug: "Where-Are-All-The-Bicycles"
      +title: "Where Are All The Bicycles??"
      +url: "https://startrek.website/pictrs/image/9caf7721-4877-4e86-8043-77878f87561e.jpeg"
      +body: """
        I have an issue in general with scifi totally ignoring the existence of bicycles, but star trek is particularly fun to think about since in so many situations beaming down in an away team with electric mountain bicycles would be incredibly useful in a basic utilitarian sense. Like shuttles, bicycles could be treated as disposable if needed, you can always replicate more right?\n
        \n
        You also don’t need to build up any infrastructure on a planet for bicycles to function as transit system for huge amounts of people. A starship could arrive into a humanitarian aid situation, quickly adjust a bicycle blueprint for whatever bipedal humanoid lived on the planet, replicate a metric sh*&ton of alien bicycles and beam them down to the planet on mass. It wouldn’t require longterm maintenance, lengthy training of local aliens on how to use, or return visits to resupply complex parts. A starship could drop bicycles, spare parts and maintenance gear and then leave and the citizens of that planet would be able to benefit from that for… decades? Even more? I am sure the instruction manuals would get super long with all the alien languages though…\n
        \n
        Even if bicycles weren’t being used as tools or transportation in a far future like star trek, there is no reason humans would stop wanting to bicycle recreationally or for exercise. Also you could go on crazy mountain biking rides on the holodeck right? I can’t see how people wouldn’t be doing that all the time along with skiing, surfing and other sports that are scary but exhilarating. Further, I think it is likely most bipedal aliens would have discovered bicycles at some point along the development into advanced technological civilizations. It would be really weird if only humans discovered them.\n
        \n
        TNG in particular is egregious for not having bicycles since the NCC-1701 is so cavernous that unless you always used the turbolifts you probably are going to need a bicycle to get anywhere quickly…\n
        \n
        What do yall think? Should star trek have more bicycles?
        """
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    +body: "I’m always reminded of Star Trek when I’m watching… Bond movies. The smorgasbord of over-the-top tech he’s using and the casual manner in which he keeps pulling them out at the right moment feels like should be right at home in the Federation."
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        \n
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        \n
        ### Rules\n
        \n
        - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
        - No misinformation\n
        - No NSFW content\n
        - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
        \n
        ### Related Communities\n
        \n
        - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
        - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
        - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
        - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
        \n
        Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
        """
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      Hi all,\n
      \n
      I’m in the market for a new big desktop replacement gaming laptop, and looking at the market there are almost exclusively Nvidia powered.\n
      \n
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      """
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          I’ve been using Linux for over 20 years and I don’t get it either. I don’t know why a vocal minority get so fixated on it. It’s not like it’s the only manufacturer with proprietary drivers. As long as the drivers work and are easy to install I don’t see a problem.\n
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      Hi all,\n
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            date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
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        +image: null
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        +body: """
          I’ve been using Linux for over 20 years and I don’t get it either. I don’t know why a vocal minority get so fixated on it. It’s not like it’s the only manufacturer with proprietary drivers. As long as the drivers work and are easy to install I don’t see a problem.\n
          \n
          I’ve used ATI/AMD cards equally over the years and I’ve always ended up having more problems overall with them than with Nvidia cards & drivers. If I were inclined to generalize I could say that open source drivers are apparently lower quality, right? 🙂\n
          \n
          But that would be just as silly as the other way around. I don’t think that open or closed drivers, in itself, automatically says anything about quality.\n
          \n
          If closed source drivers really were a problem then Nvidia wouldn’t be used by 80% of Linux gamers.
          """
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        +mentions: [
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user_inline App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent 14.0 MiB 11.60 ms
Input props
[
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    +customCss: null
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    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#14950 …}
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Component
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date App\Twig\Components\DateComponent 14.0 MiB 1.34 ms
Input props
[
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]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateComponent {#15023
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}
date_edited App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent 14.0 MiB 17.24 ms
Input props
[
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Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent {#15077
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}
magazine_inline App\Twig\Components\MagazineInlineComponent 14.0 MiB 0.65 ms
Input props
[
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Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\MagazineInlineComponent {#15131
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    +name: "linux@lemmy.ml"
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    +description: """
      From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
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      - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
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      ### Related Communities\n
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      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
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      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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        - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
        - No misinformation\n
        - No NSFW content\n
        - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
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        ### Related Communities\n
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        - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
        - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
        - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
        - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
        \n
        Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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      Hi all,\n
      \n
      I’m in the market for a new big desktop replacement gaming laptop, and looking at the market there are almost exclusively Nvidia powered.\n
      \n
      I was wondering about the state of their new open-source driver. Can I run a plain vanilla kernel with only open source / upstream packages and drivers and expect to get a good experience? How is battery life, performance? Does DRI Prime and Vulkan based GPU selection “just work”?\n
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      The only alternative new for my market is a device with an Intel Arc A730M, which I currently think is going to be the one I end up buying.\n
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      **Edit 19/11**: Thanks for all the feedback everyone! Since the reactions were quite mixed - “it works perfectly for me” vs “it’s a unmaintainable mess that breaks all the time”, I’m going to err on the side of caution and look elsewhere. I found a used laptop with an AMD Radeon RX 6700M, which I’m going to check out the coming days. If not, I’ve also found Alienware sells their m16 laptop with an RX 7600M XT, which might be a good buy for me (I currently still rock an Alienware 17R1 from 2013 with an MXM card from a decomissioned industrial computer in it).
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          I’ve been using Linux for over 20 years and I don’t get it either. I don’t know why a vocal minority get so fixated on it. It’s not like it’s the only manufacturer with proprietary drivers. As long as the drivers work and are easy to install I don’t see a problem.\n
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      Hi all,\n
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      I’m in the market for a new big desktop replacement gaming laptop, and looking at the market there are almost exclusively Nvidia powered.\n
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      \n
      The only alternative new for my market is a device with an Intel Arc A730M, which I currently think is going to be the one I end up buying.\n
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      **Edit 19/11**: Thanks for all the feedback everyone! Since the reactions were quite mixed - “it works perfectly for me” vs “it’s a unmaintainable mess that breaks all the time”, I’m going to err on the side of caution and look elsewhere. I found a used laptop with an AMD Radeon RX 6700M, which I’m going to check out the coming days. If not, I’ve also found Alienware sells their m16 laptop with an RX 7600M XT, which might be a good buy for me (I currently still rock an Alienware 17R1 from 2013 with an MXM card from a decomissioned industrial computer in it).
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          I’ve been using Linux for over 20 years and I don’t get it either. I don’t know why a vocal minority get so fixated on it. It’s not like it’s the only manufacturer with proprietary drivers. As long as the drivers work and are easy to install I don’t see a problem.\n
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        Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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      **Edit 19/11**: Thanks for all the feedback everyone! Since the reactions were quite mixed - “it works perfectly for me” vs “it’s a unmaintainable mess that breaks all the time”, I’m going to err on the side of caution and look elsewhere. I found a used laptop with an AMD Radeon RX 6700M, which I’m going to check out the coming days. If not, I’ve also found Alienware sells their m16 laptop with an RX 7600M XT, which might be a good buy for me (I currently still rock an Alienware 17R1 from 2013 with an MXM card from a decomissioned industrial computer in it).
      """
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          I’ve been using Linux for over 20 years and I don’t get it either. I don’t know why a vocal minority get so fixated on it. It’s not like it’s the only manufacturer with proprietary drivers. As long as the drivers work and are easy to install I don’t see a problem.\n
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          I’ve used ATI/AMD cards equally over the years and I’ve always ended up having more problems overall with them than with Nvidia cards & drivers. If I were inclined to generalize I could say that open source drivers are apparently lower quality, right? 🙂\n
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          But that would be just as silly as the other way around. I don’t think that open or closed drivers, in itself, automatically says anything about quality.\n
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        - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
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        - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
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        Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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      Hi all,\n
      \n
      I’m in the market for a new big desktop replacement gaming laptop, and looking at the market there are almost exclusively Nvidia powered.\n
      \n
      I was wondering about the state of their new open-source driver. Can I run a plain vanilla kernel with only open source / upstream packages and drivers and expect to get a good experience? How is battery life, performance? Does DRI Prime and Vulkan based GPU selection “just work”?\n
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          I’ve been using Linux for over 20 years and I don’t get it either. I don’t know why a vocal minority get so fixated on it. It’s not like it’s the only manufacturer with proprietary drivers. As long as the drivers work and are easy to install I don’t see a problem.\n
          \n
          I’ve used ATI/AMD cards equally over the years and I’ve always ended up having more problems overall with them than with Nvidia cards & drivers. If I were inclined to generalize I could say that open source drivers are apparently lower quality, right? 🙂\n
          \n
          But that would be just as silly as the other way around. I don’t think that open or closed drivers, in itself, automatically says anything about quality.\n
          \n
          If closed source drivers really were a problem then Nvidia wouldn’t be used by 80% of Linux gamers.
          """
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          From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
          \n
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          \n
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          ### Rules\n
          \n
          - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
          - No misinformation\n
          - No NSFW content\n
          - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
          \n
          ### Related Communities\n
          \n
          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
          - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
          \n
          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
          """
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      +slug: "State-of-the-Nvidia-open-source-driver-in-late-2023"
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      +body: """
        Hi all,\n
        \n
        I’m in the market for a new big desktop replacement gaming laptop, and looking at the market there are almost exclusively Nvidia powered.\n
        \n
        I was wondering about the state of their new open-source driver. Can I run a plain vanilla kernel with only open source / upstream packages and drivers and expect to get a good experience? How is battery life, performance? Does DRI Prime and Vulkan based GPU selection “just work”?\n
        \n
        The only alternative new for my market is a device with an Intel Arc A730M, which I currently think is going to be the one I end up buying.\n
        \n
        **Edit 19/11**: Thanks for all the feedback everyone! Since the reactions were quite mixed - “it works perfectly for me” vs “it’s a unmaintainable mess that breaks all the time”, I’m going to err on the side of caution and look elsewhere. I found a used laptop with an AMD Radeon RX 6700M, which I’m going to check out the coming days. If not, I’ve also found Alienware sells their m16 laptop with an RX 7600M XT, which might be a good buy for me (I currently still rock an Alienware 17R1 from 2013 with an MXM card from a decomissioned industrial computer in it).
        """
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    +body: """
      I’ve been using Linux for over 20 years and I don’t get it either. I don’t know why a vocal minority get so fixated on it. It’s not like it’s the only manufacturer with proprietary drivers. As long as the drivers work and are easy to install I don’t see a problem.\n
      \n
      I’ve used ATI/AMD cards equally over the years and I’ve always ended up having more problems overall with them than with Nvidia cards & drivers. If I were inclined to generalize I could say that open source drivers are apparently lower quality, right? 🙂\n
      \n
      But that would be just as silly as the other way around. I don’t think that open or closed drivers, in itself, automatically says anything about quality.\n
      \n
      If closed source drivers really were a problem then Nvidia wouldn’t be used by 80% of Linux gamers.
      """
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Component
App\Twig\Components\EntryCommentComponent {#15495
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          From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
          \n
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          \n
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          \n
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          \n
          - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
          - No misinformation\n
          - No NSFW content\n
          - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
          \n
          ### Related Communities\n
          \n
          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
          - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
          \n
          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
          """
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      +url: null
      +body: """
        Hi all,\n
        \n
        I’m in the market for a new big desktop replacement gaming laptop, and looking at the market there are almost exclusively Nvidia powered.\n
        \n
        I was wondering about the state of their new open-source driver. Can I run a plain vanilla kernel with only open source / upstream packages and drivers and expect to get a good experience? How is battery life, performance? Does DRI Prime and Vulkan based GPU selection “just work”?\n
        \n
        The only alternative new for my market is a device with an Intel Arc A730M, which I currently think is going to be the one I end up buying.\n
        \n
        **Edit 19/11**: Thanks for all the feedback everyone! Since the reactions were quite mixed - “it works perfectly for me” vs “it’s a unmaintainable mess that breaks all the time”, I’m going to err on the side of caution and look elsewhere. I found a used laptop with an AMD Radeon RX 6700M, which I’m going to check out the coming days. If not, I’ve also found Alienware sells their m16 laptop with an RX 7600M XT, which might be a good buy for me (I currently still rock an Alienware 17R1 from 2013 with an MXM card from a decomissioned industrial computer in it).
        """
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    +body: """
      I’ve been using Linux for over 20 years and I don’t get it either. I don’t know why a vocal minority get so fixated on it. It’s not like it’s the only manufacturer with proprietary drivers. As long as the drivers work and are easy to install I don’t see a problem.\n
      \n
      I’ve used ATI/AMD cards equally over the years and I’ve always ended up having more problems overall with them than with Nvidia cards & drivers. If I were inclined to generalize I could say that open source drivers are apparently lower quality, right? 🙂\n
      \n
      But that would be just as silly as the other way around. I don’t think that open or closed drivers, in itself, automatically says anything about quality.\n
      \n
      If closed source drivers really were a problem then Nvidia wouldn’t be used by 80% of Linux gamers.
      """
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user_inline App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent 16.0 MiB 0.19 ms
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    +apProfileId: "https://feddit.nl/u/lemmyvore"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://feddit.nl/u/lemmyvore"
    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://feddit.nl/inbox"
    +apDomain: "feddit.nl"
    +apPreferredUsername: "lemmyvore"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1727039733 {#272
      date: 2024-09-22 23:15:33.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687169920 {#269
      date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  "showAvatar" => false
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent {#15540
  +user: App\Entity\User {#259
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +username: "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1727573233 {#267
      date: 2024-09-29 03:27:13.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: true
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: false
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
    +isVerified: false
    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#231 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#161 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#134 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#104 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#77 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#92 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1816 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1851 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1868 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1594 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1602 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1768 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1862 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1836 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1846 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1831 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2410 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1955 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2399 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1911 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1914 …}
    +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1884 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1915 …}
    -id: 5129
    -password: "$2y$13$/vteljm8CiRSKlQjOelDZefgFTbMgXd9zTn7W2zbMetE/IgF5X85q"
    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1950 …}
    +apId: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +apProfileId: "https://feddit.nl/u/lemmyvore"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://feddit.nl/u/lemmyvore"
    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://feddit.nl/inbox"
    +apDomain: "feddit.nl"
    +apPreferredUsername: "lemmyvore"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1727039733 {#272
      date: 2024-09-22 23:15:33.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687169920 {#269
      date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  +showAvatar: false
}
date App\Twig\Components\DateComponent 16.0 MiB 0.18 ms
Input props
[
  "date" => DateTimeImmutable @1700151448 {#1683
    date: 2023-11-16 17:17:28.0 +01:00
  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateComponent {#15596
  +date: DateTimeImmutable @1700151448 {#1683
    date: 2023-11-16 17:17:28.0 +01:00
  }
}
date_edited App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent 16.0 MiB 0.16 ms
Input props
[
  "createdAt" => DateTimeImmutable @1700151448 {#1683
    date: 2023-11-16 17:17:28.0 +01:00
  }
  "editedAt" => DateTimeImmutable @1700417802 {#1701
    date: 2023-11-19 19:16:42.0 +01:00
  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent {#15650
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700151448 {#1683
    date: 2023-11-16 17:17:28.0 +01:00
  }
  +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700417802 {#1701
    date: 2023-11-19 19:16:42.0 +01:00
  }
}
user_avatar App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent 16.0 MiB 0.15 ms
Input props
[
  "user" => App\Entity\User {#259
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +username: "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1727573233 {#267
      date: 2024-09-29 03:27:13.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: true
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: false
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
    +isVerified: false
    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#231 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#161 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#134 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#104 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#77 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#92 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1816 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1851 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1868 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1594 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1602 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1768 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1862 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1836 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1846 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1831 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2410 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1955 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2399 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1911 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1914 …}
    +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1884 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1915 …}
    -id: 5129
    -password: "$2y$13$/vteljm8CiRSKlQjOelDZefgFTbMgXd9zTn7W2zbMetE/IgF5X85q"
    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1950 …}
    +apId: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +apProfileId: "https://feddit.nl/u/lemmyvore"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://feddit.nl/u/lemmyvore"
    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://feddit.nl/inbox"
    +apDomain: "feddit.nl"
    +apPreferredUsername: "lemmyvore"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1727039733 {#272
      date: 2024-09-22 23:15:33.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687169920 {#269
      date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  "width" => 40
  "height" => 40
  "asLink" => true
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent {#15704
  +width: 40
  +height: 40
  +user: App\Entity\User {#259
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +username: "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1727573233 {#267
      date: 2024-09-29 03:27:13.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: true
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: false
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
    +isVerified: false
    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#231 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#161 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#134 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#104 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#77 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#92 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1816 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1851 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1868 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1594 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1602 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1768 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1862 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1836 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1846 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1831 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2410 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1955 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2399 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1911 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1914 …}
    +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1884 …}
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    -id: 5129
    -password: "$2y$13$/vteljm8CiRSKlQjOelDZefgFTbMgXd9zTn7W2zbMetE/IgF5X85q"
    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1950 …}
    +apId: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +apProfileId: "https://feddit.nl/u/lemmyvore"
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    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://feddit.nl/inbox"
    +apDomain: "feddit.nl"
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    +apDiscoverable: true
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    +privateKey: null
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    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1727039733 {#272
      date: 2024-09-22 23:15:33.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
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    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687169920 {#269
      date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  +asLink: true
}
vote App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent 16.0 MiB 0.54 ms
Input props
[
  "subject" => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1687
    +user: App\Entity\User {#259
      +avatar: null
      +cover: null
      +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
      +username: "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
      +roles: []
      +followersCount: 0
      +homepage: "front"
      +about: null
      +lastActive: DateTime @1727573233 {#267
        date: 2024-09-29 03:27:13.0 +02:00
      }
      +markedForDeletionAt: null
      +fields: null
      +oauthGithubId: null
      +oauthGoogleId: null
      +oauthFacebookId: null
      +oauthKeycloakId: null
      +hideAdult: true
      +showSubscribedUsers: true
      +showSubscribedMagazines: true
      +showSubscribedDomains: true
      +preferredLanguages: []
      +featuredMagazines: null
      +showProfileSubscriptions: true
      +showProfileFollowings: true
      +markNewComments: false
      +notifyOnNewEntry: false
      +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
      +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
      +notifyOnNewPost: false
      +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
      +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: false
      +addMentionsEntries: false
      +addMentionsPosts: true
      +isBanned: false
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      +isDeleted: false
      +isBot: false
      +spamProtection: true
      +customCss: null
      +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
      +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
      +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
      +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#231 …}
      +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
      +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#161 …}
      +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#134 …}
      +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#104 …}
      +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#77 …}
      +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#92 …}
      +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1816 …}
      +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1851 …}
      +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1868 …}
      +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1594 …}
      +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1602 …}
      +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1768 …}
      +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1862 …}
      +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1836 …}
      +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1846 …}
      +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1831 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2410 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1955 …}
      +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2399 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1911 …}
      +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1914 …}
      +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1884 …}
      +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1915 …}
      -id: 5129
      -password: "$2y$13$/vteljm8CiRSKlQjOelDZefgFTbMgXd9zTn7W2zbMetE/IgF5X85q"
      -totpSecret: null
      -totpBackupCodes: []
      -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1950 …}
      +apId: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
      +apProfileId: "https://feddit.nl/u/lemmyvore"
      +apPublicUrl: "https://feddit.nl/u/lemmyvore"
      +apFollowersUrl: null
      +apInboxUrl: "https://feddit.nl/inbox"
      +apDomain: "feddit.nl"
      +apPreferredUsername: "lemmyvore"
      +apDiscoverable: true
      +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
      +privateKey: null
      +publicKey: null
      +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1727039733 {#272
        date: 2024-09-22 23:15:33.0 +02:00
      }
      +apDeletedAt: null
      +apTimeoutAt: null
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687169920 {#269
        date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
      }
    }
    +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1680
      +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#3153
        +avatar: null
        +cover: null
        +email: "wim@lemmy.sdf.org"
        +username: "@wim@lemmy.sdf.org"
        +roles: []
        +followersCount: 0
        +homepage: "front"
        +about: null
        +lastActive: DateTime @1709476440 {#14947
          date: 2024-03-03 15:34:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +markedForDeletionAt: null
        +fields: null
        +oauthGithubId: null
        +oauthGoogleId: null
        +oauthFacebookId: null
        +oauthKeycloakId: null
        +hideAdult: true
        +showSubscribedUsers: true
        +showSubscribedMagazines: true
        +showSubscribedDomains: true
        +preferredLanguages: []
        +featuredMagazines: null
        +showProfileSubscriptions: false
        +showProfileFollowings: true
        +markNewComments: false
        +notifyOnNewEntry: false
        +notifyOnNewEntryReply: true
        +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: true
        +notifyOnNewPost: false
        +notifyOnNewPostReply: true
        +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: true
        +addMentionsEntries: false
        +addMentionsPosts: true
        +isBanned: false
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        +isDeleted: false
        +isBot: false
        +spamProtection: true
        +customCss: null
        +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
        +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#14950 …}
        +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#14952 …}
        +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#14954 …}
        +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#14956 …}
        +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#14958 …}
        +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#14960 …}
        +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#14962 …}
        +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#14964 …}
        +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#14966 …}
        +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#14968 …}
        +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#14970 …}
        +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#14972 …}
        +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#14974 …}
        +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#14976 …}
        +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#14978 …}
        +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#14980 …}
        +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#14982 …}
        +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#14984 …}
        +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#14986 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#14988 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#14990 …}
        +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#14992 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#14994 …}
        +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#14996 …}
        +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#14998 …}
        +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#15000 …}
        -id: 76963
        -password: "$2y$13$wXCXPCGkAs9LZUBas79Ht.F7RtrJvmnp3Wf5iAgx3njERCg5Ro4cO"
        -totpSecret: null
        -totpBackupCodes: []
        -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#15002 …}
        +apId: "wim@lemmy.sdf.org"
        +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.sdf.org/u/wim"
        +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.sdf.org/u/wim"
        +apFollowersUrl: null
        +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.sdf.org/inbox"
        +apDomain: "lemmy.sdf.org"
        +apPreferredUsername: "wim"
        +apDiscoverable: true
        +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
        +privateKey: null
        +publicKey: null
        +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1702047741 {#14948
          date: 2023-12-08 16:02:21.0 +01:00
        }
        +apDeletedAt: null
        +apTimeoutAt: null
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700393722 {#14949
          date: 2023-11-19 12:35:22.0 +01:00
        }
        +__isInitialized__: true
         …2
      }
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585
        +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#4079 …}
        +name: "linux@lemmy.ml"
        +title: "linux"
        +description: """
          From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
          \n
          Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).\n
          \n
          Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.\n
          \n
          ### Rules\n
          \n
          - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
          - No misinformation\n
          - No NSFW content\n
          - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
          \n
          ### Related Communities\n
          \n
          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
          - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
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          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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        Hi all,\n
        \n
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        \n
        I was wondering about the state of their new open-source driver. Can I run a plain vanilla kernel with only open source / upstream packages and drivers and expect to get a good experience? How is battery life, performance? Does DRI Prime and Vulkan based GPU selection “just work”?\n
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      I’ve been using Linux for over 20 years and I don’t get it either. I don’t know why a vocal minority get so fixated on it. It’s not like it’s the only manufacturer with proprietary drivers. As long as the drivers work and are easy to install I don’t see a problem.\n
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          - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
          \n
          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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        Hi all,\n
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        I’m in the market for a new big desktop replacement gaming laptop, and looking at the market there are almost exclusively Nvidia powered.\n
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      I’ve been using Linux for over 20 years and I don’t get it either. I don’t know why a vocal minority get so fixated on it. It’s not like it’s the only manufacturer with proprietary drivers. As long as the drivers work and are easy to install I don’t see a problem.\n
      \n
      I’ve used ATI/AMD cards equally over the years and I’ve always ended up having more problems overall with them than with Nvidia cards & drivers. If I were inclined to generalize I could say that open source drivers are apparently lower quality, right? 🙂\n
      \n
      But that would be just as silly as the other way around. I don’t think that open or closed drivers, in itself, automatically says anything about quality.\n
      \n
      If closed source drivers really were a problem then Nvidia wouldn’t be used by 80% of Linux gamers.
      """
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boost App\Twig\Components\BoostComponent 16.0 MiB 0.87 ms
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          \n
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          - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
          \n
          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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        Hi all,\n
        \n
        I’m in the market for a new big desktop replacement gaming laptop, and looking at the market there are almost exclusively Nvidia powered.\n
        \n
        I was wondering about the state of their new open-source driver. Can I run a plain vanilla kernel with only open source / upstream packages and drivers and expect to get a good experience? How is battery life, performance? Does DRI Prime and Vulkan based GPU selection “just work”?\n
        \n
        The only alternative new for my market is a device with an Intel Arc A730M, which I currently think is going to be the one I end up buying.\n
        \n
        **Edit 19/11**: Thanks for all the feedback everyone! Since the reactions were quite mixed - “it works perfectly for me” vs “it’s a unmaintainable mess that breaks all the time”, I’m going to err on the side of caution and look elsewhere. I found a used laptop with an AMD Radeon RX 6700M, which I’m going to check out the coming days. If not, I’ve also found Alienware sells their m16 laptop with an RX 7600M XT, which might be a good buy for me (I currently still rock an Alienware 17R1 from 2013 with an MXM card from a decomissioned industrial computer in it).
        """
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      I’ve been using Linux for over 20 years and I don’t get it either. I don’t know why a vocal minority get so fixated on it. It’s not like it’s the only manufacturer with proprietary drivers. As long as the drivers work and are easy to install I don’t see a problem.\n
      \n
      I’ve used ATI/AMD cards equally over the years and I’ve always ended up having more problems overall with them than with Nvidia cards & drivers. If I were inclined to generalize I could say that open source drivers are apparently lower quality, right? 🙂\n
      \n
      But that would be just as silly as the other way around. I don’t think that open or closed drivers, in itself, automatically says anything about quality.\n
      \n
      If closed source drivers really were a problem then Nvidia wouldn’t be used by 80% of Linux gamers.
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          From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
          \n
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          \n
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          \n
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          \n
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          - No misinformation\n
          - No NSFW content\n
          - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
          \n
          ### Related Communities\n
          \n
          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
          - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
          \n
          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
          """
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      +slug: "State-of-the-Nvidia-open-source-driver-in-late-2023"
      +title: "State of the Nvidia open source driver in late 2023?"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        Hi all,\n
        \n
        I’m in the market for a new big desktop replacement gaming laptop, and looking at the market there are almost exclusively Nvidia powered.\n
        \n
        I was wondering about the state of their new open-source driver. Can I run a plain vanilla kernel with only open source / upstream packages and drivers and expect to get a good experience? How is battery life, performance? Does DRI Prime and Vulkan based GPU selection “just work”?\n
        \n
        The only alternative new for my market is a device with an Intel Arc A730M, which I currently think is going to be the one I end up buying.\n
        \n
        **Edit 19/11**: Thanks for all the feedback everyone! Since the reactions were quite mixed - “it works perfectly for me” vs “it’s a unmaintainable mess that breaks all the time”, I’m going to err on the side of caution and look elsewhere. I found a used laptop with an AMD Radeon RX 6700M, which I’m going to check out the coming days. If not, I’ve also found Alienware sells their m16 laptop with an RX 7600M XT, which might be a good buy for me (I currently still rock an Alienware 17R1 from 2013 with an MXM card from a decomissioned industrial computer in it).
        """
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    +body: """
      I’ve been using Linux for over 20 years and I don’t get it either. I don’t know why a vocal minority get so fixated on it. It’s not like it’s the only manufacturer with proprietary drivers. As long as the drivers work and are easy to install I don’t see a problem.\n
      \n
      I’ve used ATI/AMD cards equally over the years and I’ve always ended up having more problems overall with them than with Nvidia cards & drivers. If I were inclined to generalize I could say that open source drivers are apparently lower quality, right? 🙂\n
      \n
      But that would be just as silly as the other way around. I don’t think that open or closed drivers, in itself, automatically says anything about quality.\n
      \n
      If closed source drivers really were a problem then Nvidia wouldn’t be used by 80% of Linux gamers.
      """
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        🎮 | Gamer\n
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        \n
        🍝 | Foodie\n
        \n
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          -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1950 …}
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            date: 2024-09-22 23:15:33.0 +02:00
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          +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687169920 {#269
            date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
          }
        }
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1579 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …2}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1653 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1651 …}
        +body: "Screen recording/screen sharing and keyboard/window automation are the big ones missing for me."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1700113877 {#1438
          date: 2023-11-16 06:51:17.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Jezebelley@lemmy.zip"
          "@TheCaconym@hexbear.net"
          "@ayaya@lemdro.id"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1655 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1654 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1679 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1668 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1528 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1549 …}
        -id: 129218
        -bodyTs: "'autom':6 'big':9 'keyboard/window':5 'miss':11 'one':10 'recording/screen':2 'screen':1 'share':3"
        +ranking: 0
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        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700113877 {#1700
          date: 2023-11-16 06:51:17.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 129218
      }
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    -id: 13403
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    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
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    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700099296 {#3208
      date: 2023-11-16 02:48:16.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +isSingle: false
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}
user_inline App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent 16.0 MiB 9.82 ms
Input props
[
  "user" => Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#3188
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "Jezebelley@lemmy.zip"
    +username: "@Jezebelley@lemmy.zip"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: """
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      \n
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      \n
      🦜 | Birder\n
      \n
      👻 | Horror Aficionado\n
      \n
      🍝 | Foodie\n
      \n
      📟 | Nostalgia Junkie\n
      \n
      [Mastodon](https://social.linux.pizza/@jezebelley)
      """
    +lastActive: DateTime @1700624775 {#16178
      date: 2023-11-22 04:46:15.0 +01:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
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    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
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    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: false
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: true
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: true
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: true
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: true
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
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    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#16182 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#16184 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#16186 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#16188 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#16190 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#16192 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#16194 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#16196 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#16198 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#16200 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#16202 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#16204 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#16206 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#16208 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#16210 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#16212 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#16214 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#16216 …}
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    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#16234 …}
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    +privateKey: null
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      date: 2023-10-31 20:48:35.0 +01:00
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    +__isInitialized__: true
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  }
  "showAvatar" => false
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent {#16141
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#3188
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "Jezebelley@lemmy.zip"
    +username: "@Jezebelley@lemmy.zip"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: """
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      \n
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      \n
      👻 | Horror Aficionado\n
      \n
      🍝 | Foodie\n
      \n
      📟 | Nostalgia Junkie\n
      \n
      [Mastodon](https://social.linux.pizza/@jezebelley)
      """
    +lastActive: DateTime @1700624775 {#16178
      date: 2023-11-22 04:46:15.0 +01:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
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    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
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    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: false
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    +markNewComments: false
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    +addMentionsEntries: false
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    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#16182 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#16184 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#16186 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#16188 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#16190 …}
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    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#16220 …}
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    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#16234 …}
    +apId: "Jezebelley@lemmy.zip"
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    +apFollowersUrl: null
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    +privateKey: null
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    +apTimeoutAt: null
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      date: 2023-10-31 20:48:35.0 +01:00
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}
date App\Twig\Components\DateComponent 16.0 MiB 0.28 ms
Input props
[
  "date" => DateTimeImmutable @1700099296 {#3208
    date: 2023-11-16 02:48:16.0 +01:00
  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateComponent {#16255
  +date: DateTimeImmutable @1700099296 {#3208
    date: 2023-11-16 02:48:16.0 +01:00
  }
}
date_edited App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent 16.0 MiB 0.17 ms
Input props
[
  "createdAt" => DateTimeImmutable @1700099296 {#3208
    date: 2023-11-16 02:48:16.0 +01:00
  }
  "editedAt" => null
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent {#16309
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700099296 {#3208
    date: 2023-11-16 02:48:16.0 +01:00
  }
  +editedAt: null
}
magazine_inline App\Twig\Components\MagazineInlineComponent 16.0 MiB 0.24 ms
Input props
[
  "magazine" => Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585
    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#4079 …}
    +name: "linux@lemmy.ml"
    +title: "linux"
    +description: """
      From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
      \n
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      \n
      Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.\n
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      ### Rules\n
      \n
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      - No misinformation\n
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      - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
      \n
      ### Related Communities\n
      \n
      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
      \n
      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
      """
    +rules: null
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    +postCount: 5
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    +isAdult: false
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      date: 2024-09-29 03:21:04.643949 UTC (+00:00)
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +tags: null
    +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4080 …}
    +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4082 …}
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    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4086 …}
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    -id: 73
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    +apPreferredUsername: "linux"
    +apDiscoverable: true
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      date: 2024-09-29 03:31:31.538658 UTC (+00:00)
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1698929468 {#4078
      date: 2023-11-02 13:51:08.0 +01:00
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    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  "showAvatar" => false
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\MagazineInlineComponent {#16363
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585
    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#4079 …}
    +name: "linux@lemmy.ml"
    +title: "linux"
    +description: """
      From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
      \n
      Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).\n
      \n
      Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.\n
      \n
      ### Rules\n
      \n
      - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
      - No misinformation\n
      - No NSFW content\n
      - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
      \n
      ### Related Communities\n
      \n
      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
      \n
      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
      """
    +rules: null
    +subscriptionsCount: 1
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    +isAdult: false
    +customCss: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1727580064 {#4076
      date: 2024-09-29 03:21:04.643949 UTC (+00:00)
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +tags: null
    +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4080 …}
    +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4082 …}
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    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4086 …}
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    +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4127 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4109 …}
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    -id: 73
    +apId: "linux@lemmy.ml"
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    +apPreferredUsername: "linux"
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      date: 2024-09-29 03:31:31.538658 UTC (+00:00)
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
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    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1698929468 {#4078
      date: 2023-11-02 13:51:08.0 +01:00
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    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +showTitle: true
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}
entry_comment App\Twig\Components\EntryCommentComponent 16.0 MiB 155.40 ms
Input props
[
  "comment" => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1614
    +user: App\Entity\User {#259
      +avatar: null
      +cover: null
      +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
      +username: "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
      +roles: []
      +followersCount: 0
      +homepage: "front"
      +about: null
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      +markedForDeletionAt: null
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      +isBot: false
      +spamProtection: true
      +customCss: null
      +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
      +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
      +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
      +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#231 …}
      +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
      +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#161 …}
      +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#134 …}
      +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#104 …}
      +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#77 …}
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      +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1851 …}
      +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1868 …}
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      +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1602 …}
      +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1768 …}
      +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1862 …}
      +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1836 …}
      +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1846 …}
      +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1831 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2410 …}
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        +description: """
          From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
          \n
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          - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
          - No misinformation\n
          - No NSFW content\n
          - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
          \n
          ### Related Communities\n
          \n
          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
          - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
          \n
          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
          """
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        +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4084 …}
        +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4086 …}
        +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4088 …}
        +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4090 …}
        +bans: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4096 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4104 …}
        +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4117 …}
        +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4127 …}
        +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4109 …}
        +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4133 …}
        -id: 73
        +apId: "linux@lemmy.ml"
        +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.ml/c/linux"
        +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.ml/c/linux"
        +apFollowersUrl: "https://lemmy.ml/c/linux/followers"
        +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.ml/inbox"
        +apDomain: "lemmy.ml"
        +apPreferredUsername: "linux"
        +apDiscoverable: true
        +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
        +privateKey: null
        +publicKey: null
        +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1727580691 {#4077
          date: 2024-09-29 03:31:31.538658 UTC (+00:00)
        }
        +apDeletedAt: null
        +apTimeoutAt: null
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1698929468 {#4078
          date: 2023-11-02 13:51:08.0 +01:00
        }
        +__isInitialized__: true
         …2
      }
      +image: null
      +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3226 …}
      +slug: "Firefox-Going-To-Ship-With-Wayland-Enabled-By-Default"
      +title: "Firefox Going To Ship With Wayland Enabled By Default"
      +url: "https://news.slashdot.org/story/23/11/15/2116232/firefox-going-to-ship-with-wayland-enabled-by-default"
      +body: null
      +type: "link"
      +lang: "en"
      +isOc: false
      +hasEmbed: false
      +commentCount: 34
      +favouriteCount: 240
      +score: 0
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      +sticky: false
      +lastActive: DateTime @1700288509 {#3219
        date: 2023-11-18 07:21:49.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +adaAmount: 0
      +tags: null
      +mentions: null
      +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3227 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3229 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3231 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3233 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3235 …}
      +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3237 …}
      +children: [
        App\Entity\EntryComment {#1614}
      ]
      -id: 13403
      -titleTs: "'default':9 'enabl':7 'firefox':1 'go':2 'ship':4 'wayland':6"
      -bodyTs: null
      +cross: false
      +upVotes: 0
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      +ranking: 1700185696
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      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700099296 {#3208
        date: 2023-11-16 02:48:16.0 +01:00
      }
      +__isInitialized__: true
       …2
    }
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …2}
    +image: null
    +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1653 …}
    +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1651 …}
    +body: "Screen recording/screen sharing and keyboard/window automation are the big ones missing for me."
    +lang: "en"
    +isAdult: false
    +favouriteCount: 0
    +score: 0
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      date: 2023-11-16 06:51:17.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
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    +mentions: [
      "@Jezebelley@lemmy.zip"
      "@TheCaconym@hexbear.net"
      "@ayaya@lemdro.id"
    ]
    +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1655 …}
    +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1654 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1679 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1668 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1528 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1549 …}
    -id: 129218
    -bodyTs: "'autom':6 'big':9 'keyboard/window':5 'miss':11 'one':10 'recording/screen':2 'screen':1 'share':3"
    +ranking: 0
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700113877 {#1700
      date: 2023-11-16 06:51:17.0 +01:00
    }
    +"title": 129218
  }
  +showMagazineName: false
  +showEntryTitle: false
  +showNested: false
  +level: 1
  +canSeeTrash: false
  +dateAsUrl: true
  -requestStack: Symfony\Component\HttpFoundation\RequestStack {#1328 …}
  -authorizationChecker: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\AuthorizationChecker {#931 …}
}
user_inline App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent 16.0 MiB 0.22 ms
Input props
[
  "user" => App\Entity\User {#259
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +username: "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1727573233 {#267
      date: 2024-09-29 03:27:13.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
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    +oauthGoogleId: null
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    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
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    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
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    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: false
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
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    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#231 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#161 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#134 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#104 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#77 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#92 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1816 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1851 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1868 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1594 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1602 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1768 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1862 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1836 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1846 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1831 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2410 …}
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    -totpSecret: null
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    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1950 …}
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    +apDeletedAt: null
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687169920 {#269
      date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
    }
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  "showAvatar" => false
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent {#16475
  +user: App\Entity\User {#259
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +username: "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1727573233 {#267
      date: 2024-09-29 03:27:13.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
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    +hideAdult: true
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    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: true
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
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    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
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    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
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    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#231 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#161 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#134 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#104 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#77 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#92 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1816 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1851 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1868 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1594 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1602 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1768 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1862 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1836 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1846 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1831 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2410 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1955 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2399 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1911 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1914 …}
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    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1950 …}
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    +apProfileId: "https://feddit.nl/u/lemmyvore"
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    +apInboxUrl: "https://feddit.nl/inbox"
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687169920 {#269
      date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
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  +showAvatar: false
}
date App\Twig\Components\DateComponent 16.0 MiB 73.47 ms
Input props
[
  "date" => DateTimeImmutable @1700113877 {#1700
    date: 2023-11-16 06:51:17.0 +01:00
  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateComponent {#16531
  +date: DateTimeImmutable @1700113877 {#1700
    date: 2023-11-16 06:51:17.0 +01:00
  }
}
date_edited App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent 16.0 MiB 0.18 ms
Input props
[
  "createdAt" => DateTimeImmutable @1700113877 {#1700
    date: 2023-11-16 06:51:17.0 +01:00
  }
  "editedAt" => null
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent {#16585
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700113877 {#1700
    date: 2023-11-16 06:51:17.0 +01:00
  }
  +editedAt: null
}
user_avatar App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent 16.0 MiB 0.26 ms
Input props
[
  "user" => App\Entity\User {#259
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +username: "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1727573233 {#267
      date: 2024-09-29 03:27:13.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
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    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
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    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
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    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
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    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
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    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
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    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#161 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#134 …}
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    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1851 …}
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    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1602 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1768 …}
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    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1836 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1846 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1831 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2410 …}
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    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1950 …}
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    +apInboxUrl: "https://feddit.nl/inbox"
    +apDomain: "feddit.nl"
    +apPreferredUsername: "lemmyvore"
    +apDiscoverable: true
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    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1727039733 {#272
      date: 2024-09-22 23:15:33.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
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    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687169920 {#269
      date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  "width" => 40
  "height" => 40
  "asLink" => true
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent {#16639
  +width: 40
  +height: 40
  +user: App\Entity\User {#259
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +username: "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1727573233 {#267
      date: 2024-09-29 03:27:13.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
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    +featuredMagazines: null
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    +showProfileFollowings: true
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    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
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    +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: false
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    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
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    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#231 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#161 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#134 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#104 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#77 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#92 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1816 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1851 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1868 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1594 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1602 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1768 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1862 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1836 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1846 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1831 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2410 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1955 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2399 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1911 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1914 …}
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    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1950 …}
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    +apDomain: "feddit.nl"
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    +apDiscoverable: true
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    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1727039733 {#272
      date: 2024-09-22 23:15:33.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687169920 {#269
      date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  +asLink: true
}
vote App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent 16.0 MiB 0.65 ms
Input props
[
  "subject" => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1614
    +user: App\Entity\User {#259
      +avatar: null
      +cover: null
      +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
      +username: "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
      +roles: []
      +followersCount: 0
      +homepage: "front"
      +about: null
      +lastActive: DateTime @1727573233 {#267
        date: 2024-09-29 03:27:13.0 +02:00
      }
      +markedForDeletionAt: null
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      +oauthFacebookId: null
      +oauthKeycloakId: null
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      +showSubscribedUsers: true
      +showSubscribedMagazines: true
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      +featuredMagazines: null
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      +showProfileFollowings: true
      +markNewComments: false
      +notifyOnNewEntry: false
      +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
      +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
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          \n
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          \n
          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
          - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
          \n
          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
          """
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boost App\Twig\Components\BoostComponent 16.0 MiB 16.29 ms
Input props
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          \n
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          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
          \n
          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
          """
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]
Attributes
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Component
App\Twig\Components\BoostComponent {#16765
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          From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
          \n
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          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
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          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
          """
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      +slug: "Firefox-Going-To-Ship-With-Wayland-Enabled-By-Default"
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entry App\Twig\Components\EntryComponent 16.0 MiB 186.61 ms
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      +description: """
        From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
        \n
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        \n
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        \n
        ### Rules\n
        \n
        - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
        - No misinformation\n
        - No NSFW content\n
        - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
        \n
        ### Related Communities\n
        \n
        - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
        - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
        - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
        - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
        \n
        Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
        """
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    }
    +image: null
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2956 …}
    +slug: "How-to-keep-all-email-locally-in-a-useful-format"
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    +url: null
    +body: """
      I have an account on an SMTP server. The server has a storage quota. I’d like the delete stuff from the server but keep it locally in case I need it. Just in case.\n
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      \n
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      \n
      What about situations where messages are moved from one folder to another on the server? Would I get a duplicate locally of the message appearing in both locations? Not sure how the storage and metadata actually are.\n
      \n
      Also, is it possible in such a situation to put a message *back* on the server if I realize it was deleted in error?\n
      \n
      Any idea would be welcome. I am a bit stuck.\n
      \n
      I can use the command line comfortably but ideally I’d have a solution that doesn’t rely on the terminal to find find messages and such. I don’t really like terminal mail clients.
      """
    +type: "article"
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        +user: App\Entity\User {#259
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        +image: null
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        +body: """
          What I do is use Claws Mail with POP3, it has an option that allows a message to only be deleted from the server after a configurable period of time. So if you set it for 10 days for example the message will exist both locally on your PC and on the server for 10 days, after which it will only exist on the PC.\n
          \n
          It works pretty well in general. The only account giving me some trouble is Yahoo, which I suspect has some quirks, which occasionally cause the messages to be downloaded again and duplicated. Thankfully it’s easily fixed because Claws also has a feature to delete duplicates.\n
          \n
          This approach is different from IMAP, which would maintain a local offline cache of the live inbox, but you wouldn’t be able to only keep local messages — any change in one side would be reflected in both.\n
          \n
          However, Claws allows you to do both. You can have both a POP3 and an IMAP account connected to the same live box use the POP3 for offline archival, and the IMAP for when you want to put something back on the server, or if you need to look at other folders on the server besides inbox (POP3 cab only see the inbox, not trash, sent etc.)\n
          \n
          Normally I only do folders locally on the PC, on the mailbox connected with POP3, so none of the organization is reflected on the live mailbox, which is inbox only. Every once in a while I connect via IMAP to recover emails from the sent folder, which I’ve sent with webmail or from mobile (using IMAP on mobile too).\n
          \n
          If this doesn’t fit your workflow turn there are lots of IMAP syncing tools like you’ve noticed. IMAPsync is pretty good.\n
          \n
          The last step for my workflow would be to self host an IMAP server that will index the POP3 mailbox, and expose it read-only (without SMTP) through a webmail app, for archival and search only. I may have to look at Piler. The quirk here is that the Claws mailbox format is *slightly* different from IMAP, it’s very similar to mbox but not identical, will have to see if any IMAP server will accept it.\n
          \n
          Thunderbird is no go unfortunately, its main box format is to keep all messages on one big file instead of individual files, which complicates things a lot.
          """
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     …2
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  "dateAsUrl" => true
]
Attributes
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]
Component
App\Twig\Components\EntryComponent {#17016
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  -security: Symfony\Bundle\SecurityBundle\Security {#1101 …}
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       …2
    }
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585
      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#4079 …}
      +name: "linux@lemmy.ml"
      +title: "linux"
      +description: """
        From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
        \n
        Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).\n
        \n
        Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.\n
        \n
        ### Rules\n
        \n
        - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
        - No misinformation\n
        - No NSFW content\n
        - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
        \n
        ### Related Communities\n
        \n
        - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
        - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
        - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
        - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
        \n
        Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
        """
      +rules: null
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        date: 2024-09-29 03:31:31.538658 UTC (+00:00)
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        date: 2023-11-02 13:51:08.0 +01:00
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       …2
    }
    +image: null
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2956 …}
    +slug: "How-to-keep-all-email-locally-in-a-useful-format"
    +title: "How to keep all email locally in a useful format that can be searched across devices?"
    +url: null
    +body: """
      I have an account on an SMTP server. The server has a storage quota. I’d like the delete stuff from the server but keep it locally in case I need it. Just in case.\n
      \n
      I’d like to be able to access the mail somehow on other computers and hopefully mobile devices on my network so that it can be searched when needed. I’m not sure what the best interface for that would be. A webmail client?\n
      \n
      One option would be to use Thunderbird or another client to download the mail once in a while but disable deleting local messages when they are removed from the server. Would Thunderbird store the messages in a format I can use readily with other applications? Or should I use something else to download the mail?\n
      \n
      What about situations where messages are moved from one folder to another on the server? Would I get a duplicate locally of the message appearing in both locations? Not sure how the storage and metadata actually are.\n
      \n
      Also, is it possible in such a situation to put a message *back* on the server if I realize it was deleted in error?\n
      \n
      Any idea would be welcome. I am a bit stuck.\n
      \n
      I can use the command line comfortably but ideally I’d have a solution that doesn’t rely on the terminal to find find messages and such. I don’t really like terminal mail clients.
      """
    +type: "article"
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          +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1846 …}
          +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1831 …}
          +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2410 …}
          +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1955 …}
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          +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1911 …}
          +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1914 …}
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          +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1915 …}
          -id: 5129
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          -totpSecret: null
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          -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1950 …}
          +apId: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
          +apProfileId: "https://feddit.nl/u/lemmyvore"
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          +privateKey: null
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            date: 2024-09-22 23:15:33.0 +02:00
          }
          +apDeletedAt: null
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          +visibility: "visible             "
          +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687169920 {#269
            date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
          }
        }
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2378 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …2}
        +image: null
        +parent: null
        +root: null
        +body: """
          What I do is use Claws Mail with POP3, it has an option that allows a message to only be deleted from the server after a configurable period of time. So if you set it for 10 days for example the message will exist both locally on your PC and on the server for 10 days, after which it will only exist on the PC.\n
          \n
          It works pretty well in general. The only account giving me some trouble is Yahoo, which I suspect has some quirks, which occasionally cause the messages to be downloaded again and duplicated. Thankfully it’s easily fixed because Claws also has a feature to delete duplicates.\n
          \n
          This approach is different from IMAP, which would maintain a local offline cache of the live inbox, but you wouldn’t be able to only keep local messages — any change in one side would be reflected in both.\n
          \n
          However, Claws allows you to do both. You can have both a POP3 and an IMAP account connected to the same live box use the POP3 for offline archival, and the IMAP for when you want to put something back on the server, or if you need to look at other folders on the server besides inbox (POP3 cab only see the inbox, not trash, sent etc.)\n
          \n
          Normally I only do folders locally on the PC, on the mailbox connected with POP3, so none of the organization is reflected on the live mailbox, which is inbox only. Every once in a while I connect via IMAP to recover emails from the sent folder, which I’ve sent with webmail or from mobile (using IMAP on mobile too).\n
          \n
          If this doesn’t fit your workflow turn there are lots of IMAP syncing tools like you’ve noticed. IMAPsync is pretty good.\n
          \n
          The last step for my workflow would be to self host an IMAP server that will index the POP3 mailbox, and expose it read-only (without SMTP) through a webmail app, for archival and search only. I may have to look at Piler. The quirk here is that the Claws mailbox format is *slightly* different from IMAP, it’s very similar to mbox but not identical, will have to see if any IMAP server will accept it.\n
          \n
          Thunderbird is no go unfortunately, its main box format is to keep all messages on one big file instead of individual files, which complicates things a lot.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1700277723 {#2382
          date: 2023-11-18 04:22:03.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@crank@beehaw.org"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2379 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2383 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1906 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1708 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1410 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1907 …}
        -id: 135856
        -bodyTs: "'10':37,55 'abl':134 'accept':376 'account':74,166 'allow':15,152 'also':105 'app':331 'approach':113 'archiv':178,333 'back':189 'besid':205 'big':394 'box':172,385 'cab':208 'cach':124 'caus':89 'chang':141 'claw':6,104,151,350 'complic':401 'configur':27 'connect':167,229,253 'day':38,56 'delet':21,110 'differ':115,355 'doesn':279 'download':94 'duplic':97,111 'easili':101 'email':258 'etc':216 'everi':247 'exampl':40 'exist':44,62 'expos':321 'featur':108 'file':395,399 'fit':281 'fix':102 'folder':201,221,262 'format':352,386 'general':71 'give':75 'go':381 'good':299 'host':310 'howev':150 'ident':366 'imap':117,165,181,255,273,289,312,357,373 'imapsync':296 'inbox':128,206,212,245 'index':316 'individu':398 'instead':396 'keep':137,389 'last':301 'like':292 'live':127,171,241 'local':46,122,138,222 'look':198,341 'lot':287,404 'mail':7 'mailbox':228,242,319,351 'main':384 'maintain':120 'may':338 'mbox':363 'messag':17,42,91,139,391 'mobil':271,275 'need':196 'none':233 'normal':217 'notic':295 'occasion':88 'offlin':123,177 'one':143,393 'option':13 'organ':236 'pc':49,65,225 'period':28 'piler':343 'pop3':9,162,175,207,231,318 'pretti':68,298 'put':187 'quirk':86,345 'read':324 'read-on':323 'recov':257 'reflect':147,238 'search':335 'see':210,370 'self':309 'sent':215,261,266 'server':24,53,192,204,313,374 'set':34 'side':144 'similar':361 'slight':354 'smtp':327 'someth':188 'step':302 'suspect':83 'sync':290 'thank':98 'thing':402 'thunderbird':378 'time':30 'tool':291 'trash':214 'troubl':78 'turn':284 'unfortun':382 'use':5,173,272 've':265,294 'via':254 'want':185 'webmail':268,330 'well':69 'without':326 'work':67 'workflow':283,305 'would':119,145,306 'wouldn':131 'yahoo':80"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.nl/comment/4672982"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700277723 {#2385
          date: 2023-11-18 04:22:03.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 135856
      }
    ]
    -id: 14004
    -titleTs: "'across':15 'devic':16 'email':5 'format':10 'keep':3 'local':6 'search':14 'use':9"
    -bodyTs: "'abl':41 'access':43 'account':4 'actual':170 'also':172 'anoth':88,146 'appear':159 'applic':124 'back':184 'best':71 'bit':204 'case':29,35 'client':79,89,240 'comfort':212 'command':210 'comput':49 'd':16,37,216 'delet':19,100,193 'devic':53 'disabl':99 'doesn':221 'download':91,132 'duplic':154 'els':130 'error':195 'find':228,229 'folder':144 'format':117 'get':152 'hope':51 'idea':197 'ideal':214 'interfac':72 'keep':25 'like':17,38,237 'line':211 'local':27,101,155 'locat':162 'm':66 'mail':45,93,134,239 'messag':102,114,139,158,183,230 'metadata':169 'mobil':52 'move':141 'need':31,64 'network':56 'one':80,143 'option':81 'possibl':175 'put':181 'quota':14 'readili':121 'realiz':190 'realli':236 'reli':223 'remov':106 'search':62 'server':8,10,23,109,149,187 'situat':137,179 'smtp':7 'solut':219 'somehow':46 'someth':129 'storag':13,167 'store':112 'stuck':205 'stuff':20 'sure':68,164 'termin':226,238 'thunderbird':86,111 'use':85,120,128,208 'webmail':78 'welcom':200 'would':75,82,110,150,198"
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
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    +ranking: 1700352061
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    +apId: "https://beehaw.org/post/9647306"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700265661 {#3078
      date: 2023-11-18 01:01:01.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +isSingle: false
  +showShortSentence: true
  +showBody: false
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  +canSeeTrash: false
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}
user_inline App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent 16.0 MiB 27.07 ms
Input props
[
  "user" => Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#3058
    +avatar: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#17149 …}
    +cover: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#17150 …}
    +email: "crank@beehaw.org"
    +username: "@crank@beehaw.org"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: "wind me up"
    +lastActive: DateTime @1702539061 {#17146
      date: 2023-12-14 08:31:01.0 +01:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: false
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: true
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: true
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: true
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: true
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
    +isVerified: false
    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#17151 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#17153 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#17155 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#17157 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#17159 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#17161 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#17163 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#17165 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#17167 …}
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    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#17173 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#17175 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#17177 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#17179 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#17181 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#17183 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#17185 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#17187 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#17189 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#17191 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#17193 …}
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    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#17197 …}
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    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#17201 …}
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    -password: "$2y$13$JDmLaVTJZwRiTdL1dIJEnOWCm.E0fRsHrIH7vggHIp13MrhASUnWu"
    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#17203 …}
    +apId: "crank@beehaw.org"
    +apProfileId: "https://beehaw.org/u/crank"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://beehaw.org/u/crank"
    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://beehaw.org/inbox"
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    +apPreferredUsername: "crank"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
    +privateKey: null
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    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1704634790 {#17147
      date: 2024-01-07 14:39:50.0 +01:00
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    +apDeletedAt: null
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    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699696390 {#17148
      date: 2023-11-11 10:53:10.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  "showAvatar" => false
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent {#17109
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#3058
    +avatar: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#17149 …}
    +cover: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#17150 …}
    +email: "crank@beehaw.org"
    +username: "@crank@beehaw.org"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: "wind me up"
    +lastActive: DateTime @1702539061 {#17146
      date: 2023-12-14 08:31:01.0 +01:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: false
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: true
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: true
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: true
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: true
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
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    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#17151 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#17153 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#17155 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#17157 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#17159 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#17161 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#17163 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#17165 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#17167 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#17169 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#17171 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#17173 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#17175 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#17177 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#17179 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#17181 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#17183 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#17185 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#17187 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#17189 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#17191 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#17193 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#17195 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#17197 …}
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    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#17201 …}
    -id: 74209
    -password: "$2y$13$JDmLaVTJZwRiTdL1dIJEnOWCm.E0fRsHrIH7vggHIp13MrhASUnWu"
    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#17203 …}
    +apId: "crank@beehaw.org"
    +apProfileId: "https://beehaw.org/u/crank"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://beehaw.org/u/crank"
    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://beehaw.org/inbox"
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    +apPreferredUsername: "crank"
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    +privateKey: null
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    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1704634790 {#17147
      date: 2024-01-07 14:39:50.0 +01:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
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    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699696390 {#17148
      date: 2023-11-11 10:53:10.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +showAvatar: false
}
date App\Twig\Components\DateComponent 16.0 MiB 0.25 ms
Input props
[
  "date" => DateTimeImmutable @1700265661 {#3078
    date: 2023-11-18 01:01:01.0 +01:00
  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateComponent {#17224
  +date: DateTimeImmutable @1700265661 {#3078
    date: 2023-11-18 01:01:01.0 +01:00
  }
}
date_edited App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent 16.0 MiB 0.16 ms
Input props
[
  "createdAt" => DateTimeImmutable @1700265661 {#3078
    date: 2023-11-18 01:01:01.0 +01:00
  }
  "editedAt" => null
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent {#17278
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700265661 {#3078
    date: 2023-11-18 01:01:01.0 +01:00
  }
  +editedAt: null
}
magazine_inline App\Twig\Components\MagazineInlineComponent 16.0 MiB 13.34 ms
Input props
[
  "magazine" => Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585
    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#4079 …}
    +name: "linux@lemmy.ml"
    +title: "linux"
    +description: """
      From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
      \n
      Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).\n
      \n
      Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.\n
      \n
      ### Rules\n
      \n
      - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
      - No misinformation\n
      - No NSFW content\n
      - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
      \n
      ### Related Communities\n
      \n
      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
      \n
      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
      """
    +rules: null
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    +postCount: 5
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    +isAdult: false
    +customCss: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1727580064 {#4076
      date: 2024-09-29 03:21:04.643949 UTC (+00:00)
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +tags: null
    +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4080 …}
    +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4082 …}
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    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4086 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4088 …}
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    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4117 …}
    +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4127 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4109 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4133 …}
    -id: 73
    +apId: "linux@lemmy.ml"
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    +apDomain: "lemmy.ml"
    +apPreferredUsername: "linux"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
    +privateKey: null
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    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1727580691 {#4077
      date: 2024-09-29 03:31:31.538658 UTC (+00:00)
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
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    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1698929468 {#4078
      date: 2023-11-02 13:51:08.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  "showAvatar" => false
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\MagazineInlineComponent {#17332
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585
    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#4079 …}
    +name: "linux@lemmy.ml"
    +title: "linux"
    +description: """
      From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
      \n
      Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).\n
      \n
      Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.\n
      \n
      ### Rules\n
      \n
      - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
      - No misinformation\n
      - No NSFW content\n
      - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
      \n
      ### Related Communities\n
      \n
      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
      \n
      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
      """
    +rules: null
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      date: 2024-09-29 03:21:04.643949 UTC (+00:00)
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
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vote App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent 16.0 MiB 0.56 ms
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        From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
        \n
        Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).\n
        \n
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        \n
        ### Rules\n
        \n
        - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
        - No misinformation\n
        - No NSFW content\n
        - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
        \n
        ### Related Communities\n
        \n
        - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
        - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
        - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
        - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
        \n
        Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
        """
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      I have an account on an SMTP server. The server has a storage quota. I’d like the delete stuff from the server but keep it locally in case I need it. Just in case.\n
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      \n
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      \n
      What about situations where messages are moved from one folder to another on the server? Would I get a duplicate locally of the message appearing in both locations? Not sure how the storage and metadata actually are.\n
      \n
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      \n
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      \n
      I can use the command line comfortably but ideally I’d have a solution that doesn’t rely on the terminal to find find messages and such. I don’t really like terminal mail clients.
      """
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        +image: null
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        +body: """
          What I do is use Claws Mail with POP3, it has an option that allows a message to only be deleted from the server after a configurable period of time. So if you set it for 10 days for example the message will exist both locally on your PC and on the server for 10 days, after which it will only exist on the PC.\n
          \n
          It works pretty well in general. The only account giving me some trouble is Yahoo, which I suspect has some quirks, which occasionally cause the messages to be downloaded again and duplicated. Thankfully it’s easily fixed because Claws also has a feature to delete duplicates.\n
          \n
          This approach is different from IMAP, which would maintain a local offline cache of the live inbox, but you wouldn’t be able to only keep local messages — any change in one side would be reflected in both.\n
          \n
          However, Claws allows you to do both. You can have both a POP3 and an IMAP account connected to the same live box use the POP3 for offline archival, and the IMAP for when you want to put something back on the server, or if you need to look at other folders on the server besides inbox (POP3 cab only see the inbox, not trash, sent etc.)\n
          \n
          Normally I only do folders locally on the PC, on the mailbox connected with POP3, so none of the organization is reflected on the live mailbox, which is inbox only. Every once in a while I connect via IMAP to recover emails from the sent folder, which I’ve sent with webmail or from mobile (using IMAP on mobile too).\n
          \n
          If this doesn’t fit your workflow turn there are lots of IMAP syncing tools like you’ve noticed. IMAPsync is pretty good.\n
          \n
          The last step for my workflow would be to self host an IMAP server that will index the POP3 mailbox, and expose it read-only (without SMTP) through a webmail app, for archival and search only. I may have to look at Piler. The quirk here is that the Claws mailbox format is *slightly* different from IMAP, it’s very similar to mbox but not identical, will have to see if any IMAP server will accept it.\n
          \n
          Thunderbird is no go unfortunately, its main box format is to keep all messages on one big file instead of individual files, which complicates things a lot.
          """
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     …2
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]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent {#17388
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        From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
        \n
        Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).\n
        \n
        Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.\n
        \n
        ### Rules\n
        \n
        - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
        - No misinformation\n
        - No NSFW content\n
        - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
        \n
        ### Related Communities\n
        \n
        - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
        - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
        - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
        - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
        \n
        Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
        """
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    +image: null
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2956 …}
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    +body: """
      I have an account on an SMTP server. The server has a storage quota. I’d like the delete stuff from the server but keep it locally in case I need it. Just in case.\n
      \n
      I’d like to be able to access the mail somehow on other computers and hopefully mobile devices on my network so that it can be searched when needed. I’m not sure what the best interface for that would be. A webmail client?\n
      \n
      One option would be to use Thunderbird or another client to download the mail once in a while but disable deleting local messages when they are removed from the server. Would Thunderbird store the messages in a format I can use readily with other applications? Or should I use something else to download the mail?\n
      \n
      What about situations where messages are moved from one folder to another on the server? Would I get a duplicate locally of the message appearing in both locations? Not sure how the storage and metadata actually are.\n
      \n
      Also, is it possible in such a situation to put a message *back* on the server if I realize it was deleted in error?\n
      \n
      Any idea would be welcome. I am a bit stuck.\n
      \n
      I can use the command line comfortably but ideally I’d have a solution that doesn’t rely on the terminal to find find messages and such. I don’t really like terminal mail clients.
      """
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        +user: App\Entity\User {#259
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        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2378 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …2}
        +image: null
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        +body: """
          What I do is use Claws Mail with POP3, it has an option that allows a message to only be deleted from the server after a configurable period of time. So if you set it for 10 days for example the message will exist both locally on your PC and on the server for 10 days, after which it will only exist on the PC.\n
          \n
          It works pretty well in general. The only account giving me some trouble is Yahoo, which I suspect has some quirks, which occasionally cause the messages to be downloaded again and duplicated. Thankfully it’s easily fixed because Claws also has a feature to delete duplicates.\n
          \n
          This approach is different from IMAP, which would maintain a local offline cache of the live inbox, but you wouldn’t be able to only keep local messages — any change in one side would be reflected in both.\n
          \n
          However, Claws allows you to do both. You can have both a POP3 and an IMAP account connected to the same live box use the POP3 for offline archival, and the IMAP for when you want to put something back on the server, or if you need to look at other folders on the server besides inbox (POP3 cab only see the inbox, not trash, sent etc.)\n
          \n
          Normally I only do folders locally on the PC, on the mailbox connected with POP3, so none of the organization is reflected on the live mailbox, which is inbox only. Every once in a while I connect via IMAP to recover emails from the sent folder, which I’ve sent with webmail or from mobile (using IMAP on mobile too).\n
          \n
          If this doesn’t fit your workflow turn there are lots of IMAP syncing tools like you’ve noticed. IMAPsync is pretty good.\n
          \n
          The last step for my workflow would be to self host an IMAP server that will index the POP3 mailbox, and expose it read-only (without SMTP) through a webmail app, for archival and search only. I may have to look at Piler. The quirk here is that the Claws mailbox format is *slightly* different from IMAP, it’s very similar to mbox but not identical, will have to see if any IMAP server will accept it.\n
          \n
          Thunderbird is no go unfortunately, its main box format is to keep all messages on one big file instead of individual files, which complicates things a lot.
          """
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        +ip: null
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        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2379 …}
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        -id: 135856
        -bodyTs: "'10':37,55 'abl':134 'accept':376 'account':74,166 'allow':15,152 'also':105 'app':331 'approach':113 'archiv':178,333 'back':189 'besid':205 'big':394 'box':172,385 'cab':208 'cach':124 'caus':89 'chang':141 'claw':6,104,151,350 'complic':401 'configur':27 'connect':167,229,253 'day':38,56 'delet':21,110 'differ':115,355 'doesn':279 'download':94 'duplic':97,111 'easili':101 'email':258 'etc':216 'everi':247 'exampl':40 'exist':44,62 'expos':321 'featur':108 'file':395,399 'fit':281 'fix':102 'folder':201,221,262 'format':352,386 'general':71 'give':75 'go':381 'good':299 'host':310 'howev':150 'ident':366 'imap':117,165,181,255,273,289,312,357,373 'imapsync':296 'inbox':128,206,212,245 'index':316 'individu':398 'instead':396 'keep':137,389 'last':301 'like':292 'live':127,171,241 'local':46,122,138,222 'look':198,341 'lot':287,404 'mail':7 'mailbox':228,242,319,351 'main':384 'maintain':120 'may':338 'mbox':363 'messag':17,42,91,139,391 'mobil':271,275 'need':196 'none':233 'normal':217 'notic':295 'occasion':88 'offlin':123,177 'one':143,393 'option':13 'organ':236 'pc':49,65,225 'period':28 'piler':343 'pop3':9,162,175,207,231,318 'pretti':68,298 'put':187 'quirk':86,345 'read':324 'read-on':323 'recov':257 'reflect':147,238 'search':335 'see':210,370 'self':309 'sent':215,261,266 'server':24,53,192,204,313,374 'set':34 'side':144 'similar':361 'slight':354 'smtp':327 'someth':188 'step':302 'suspect':83 'sync':290 'thank':98 'thing':402 'thunderbird':378 'time':30 'tool':291 'trash':214 'troubl':78 'turn':284 'unfortun':382 'use':5,173,272 've':265,294 'via':254 'want':185 'webmail':268,330 'well':69 'without':326 'work':67 'workflow':283,305 'would':119,145,306 'wouldn':131 'yahoo':80"
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  }
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  -cache: Symfony\Component\Cache\Adapter\TraceableTagAwareAdapter {#600 …}
}
boost App\Twig\Components\BoostComponent 16.0 MiB 0.94 ms
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      +title: "linux"
      +description: """
        From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
        \n
        Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).\n
        \n
        Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.\n
        \n
        ### Rules\n
        \n
        - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
        - No misinformation\n
        - No NSFW content\n
        - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
        \n
        ### Related Communities\n
        \n
        - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
        - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
        - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
        - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
        \n
        Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
        """
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        date: 2024-09-29 03:31:31.538658 UTC (+00:00)
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        date: 2023-11-02 13:51:08.0 +01:00
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    }
    +image: null
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    +slug: "How-to-keep-all-email-locally-in-a-useful-format"
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    +url: null
    +body: """
      I have an account on an SMTP server. The server has a storage quota. I’d like the delete stuff from the server but keep it locally in case I need it. Just in case.\n
      \n
      I’d like to be able to access the mail somehow on other computers and hopefully mobile devices on my network so that it can be searched when needed. I’m not sure what the best interface for that would be. A webmail client?\n
      \n
      One option would be to use Thunderbird or another client to download the mail once in a while but disable deleting local messages when they are removed from the server. Would Thunderbird store the messages in a format I can use readily with other applications? Or should I use something else to download the mail?\n
      \n
      What about situations where messages are moved from one folder to another on the server? Would I get a duplicate locally of the message appearing in both locations? Not sure how the storage and metadata actually are.\n
      \n
      Also, is it possible in such a situation to put a message *back* on the server if I realize it was deleted in error?\n
      \n
      Any idea would be welcome. I am a bit stuck.\n
      \n
      I can use the command line comfortably but ideally I’d have a solution that doesn’t rely on the terminal to find find messages and such. I don’t really like terminal mail clients.
      """
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            date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
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        }
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2378 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …2}
        +image: null
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        +body: """
          What I do is use Claws Mail with POP3, it has an option that allows a message to only be deleted from the server after a configurable period of time. So if you set it for 10 days for example the message will exist both locally on your PC and on the server for 10 days, after which it will only exist on the PC.\n
          \n
          It works pretty well in general. The only account giving me some trouble is Yahoo, which I suspect has some quirks, which occasionally cause the messages to be downloaded again and duplicated. Thankfully it’s easily fixed because Claws also has a feature to delete duplicates.\n
          \n
          This approach is different from IMAP, which would maintain a local offline cache of the live inbox, but you wouldn’t be able to only keep local messages — any change in one side would be reflected in both.\n
          \n
          However, Claws allows you to do both. You can have both a POP3 and an IMAP account connected to the same live box use the POP3 for offline archival, and the IMAP for when you want to put something back on the server, or if you need to look at other folders on the server besides inbox (POP3 cab only see the inbox, not trash, sent etc.)\n
          \n
          Normally I only do folders locally on the PC, on the mailbox connected with POP3, so none of the organization is reflected on the live mailbox, which is inbox only. Every once in a while I connect via IMAP to recover emails from the sent folder, which I’ve sent with webmail or from mobile (using IMAP on mobile too).\n
          \n
          If this doesn’t fit your workflow turn there are lots of IMAP syncing tools like you’ve noticed. IMAPsync is pretty good.\n
          \n
          The last step for my workflow would be to self host an IMAP server that will index the POP3 mailbox, and expose it read-only (without SMTP) through a webmail app, for archival and search only. I may have to look at Piler. The quirk here is that the Claws mailbox format is *slightly* different from IMAP, it’s very similar to mbox but not identical, will have to see if any IMAP server will accept it.\n
          \n
          Thunderbird is no go unfortunately, its main box format is to keep all messages on one big file instead of individual files, which complicates things a lot.
          """
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          "@crank@beehaw.org"
        ]
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     …2
  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\BoostComponent {#17445
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    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#3058
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        From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
        \n
        Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).\n
        \n
        Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.\n
        \n
        ### Rules\n
        \n
        - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
        - No misinformation\n
        - No NSFW content\n
        - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
        \n
        ### Related Communities\n
        \n
        - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
        - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
        - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
        - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
        \n
        Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
        """
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      }
      +__isInitialized__: true
       …2
    }
    +image: null
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2956 …}
    +slug: "How-to-keep-all-email-locally-in-a-useful-format"
    +title: "How to keep all email locally in a useful format that can be searched across devices?"
    +url: null
    +body: """
      I have an account on an SMTP server. The server has a storage quota. I’d like the delete stuff from the server but keep it locally in case I need it. Just in case.\n
      \n
      I’d like to be able to access the mail somehow on other computers and hopefully mobile devices on my network so that it can be searched when needed. I’m not sure what the best interface for that would be. A webmail client?\n
      \n
      One option would be to use Thunderbird or another client to download the mail once in a while but disable deleting local messages when they are removed from the server. Would Thunderbird store the messages in a format I can use readily with other applications? Or should I use something else to download the mail?\n
      \n
      What about situations where messages are moved from one folder to another on the server? Would I get a duplicate locally of the message appearing in both locations? Not sure how the storage and metadata actually are.\n
      \n
      Also, is it possible in such a situation to put a message *back* on the server if I realize it was deleted in error?\n
      \n
      Any idea would be welcome. I am a bit stuck.\n
      \n
      I can use the command line comfortably but ideally I’d have a solution that doesn’t rely on the terminal to find find messages and such. I don’t really like terminal mail clients.
      """
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      App\Entity\EntryComment {#2384
        +user: App\Entity\User {#259
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            date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
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        }
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2378 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …2}
        +image: null
        +parent: null
        +root: null
        +body: """
          What I do is use Claws Mail with POP3, it has an option that allows a message to only be deleted from the server after a configurable period of time. So if you set it for 10 days for example the message will exist both locally on your PC and on the server for 10 days, after which it will only exist on the PC.\n
          \n
          It works pretty well in general. The only account giving me some trouble is Yahoo, which I suspect has some quirks, which occasionally cause the messages to be downloaded again and duplicated. Thankfully it’s easily fixed because Claws also has a feature to delete duplicates.\n
          \n
          This approach is different from IMAP, which would maintain a local offline cache of the live inbox, but you wouldn’t be able to only keep local messages — any change in one side would be reflected in both.\n
          \n
          However, Claws allows you to do both. You can have both a POP3 and an IMAP account connected to the same live box use the POP3 for offline archival, and the IMAP for when you want to put something back on the server, or if you need to look at other folders on the server besides inbox (POP3 cab only see the inbox, not trash, sent etc.)\n
          \n
          Normally I only do folders locally on the PC, on the mailbox connected with POP3, so none of the organization is reflected on the live mailbox, which is inbox only. Every once in a while I connect via IMAP to recover emails from the sent folder, which I’ve sent with webmail or from mobile (using IMAP on mobile too).\n
          \n
          If this doesn’t fit your workflow turn there are lots of IMAP syncing tools like you’ve noticed. IMAPsync is pretty good.\n
          \n
          The last step for my workflow would be to self host an IMAP server that will index the POP3 mailbox, and expose it read-only (without SMTP) through a webmail app, for archival and search only. I may have to look at Piler. The quirk here is that the Claws mailbox format is *slightly* different from IMAP, it’s very similar to mbox but not identical, will have to see if any IMAP server will accept it.\n
          \n
          Thunderbird is no go unfortunately, its main box format is to keep all messages on one big file instead of individual files, which complicates things a lot.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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        +ip: null
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          "@crank@beehaw.org"
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        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2379 …}
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        -bodyTs: "'10':37,55 'abl':134 'accept':376 'account':74,166 'allow':15,152 'also':105 'app':331 'approach':113 'archiv':178,333 'back':189 'besid':205 'big':394 'box':172,385 'cab':208 'cach':124 'caus':89 'chang':141 'claw':6,104,151,350 'complic':401 'configur':27 'connect':167,229,253 'day':38,56 'delet':21,110 'differ':115,355 'doesn':279 'download':94 'duplic':97,111 'easili':101 'email':258 'etc':216 'everi':247 'exampl':40 'exist':44,62 'expos':321 'featur':108 'file':395,399 'fit':281 'fix':102 'folder':201,221,262 'format':352,386 'general':71 'give':75 'go':381 'good':299 'host':310 'howev':150 'ident':366 'imap':117,165,181,255,273,289,312,357,373 'imapsync':296 'inbox':128,206,212,245 'index':316 'individu':398 'instead':396 'keep':137,389 'last':301 'like':292 'live':127,171,241 'local':46,122,138,222 'look':198,341 'lot':287,404 'mail':7 'mailbox':228,242,319,351 'main':384 'maintain':120 'may':338 'mbox':363 'messag':17,42,91,139,391 'mobil':271,275 'need':196 'none':233 'normal':217 'notic':295 'occasion':88 'offlin':123,177 'one':143,393 'option':13 'organ':236 'pc':49,65,225 'period':28 'piler':343 'pop3':9,162,175,207,231,318 'pretti':68,298 'put':187 'quirk':86,345 'read':324 'read-on':323 'recov':257 'reflect':147,238 'search':335 'see':210,370 'self':309 'sent':215,261,266 'server':24,53,192,204,313,374 'set':34 'side':144 'similar':361 'slight':354 'smtp':327 'someth':188 'step':302 'suspect':83 'sync':290 'thank':98 'thing':402 'thunderbird':378 'time':30 'tool':291 'trash':214 'troubl':78 'turn':284 'unfortun':382 'use':5,173,272 've':265,294 'via':254 'want':185 'webmail':268,330 'well':69 'without':326 'work':67 'workflow':283,305 'would':119,145,306 'wouldn':131 'yahoo':80"
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    -bodyTs: "'abl':41 'access':43 'account':4 'actual':170 'also':172 'anoth':88,146 'appear':159 'applic':124 'back':184 'best':71 'bit':204 'case':29,35 'client':79,89,240 'comfort':212 'command':210 'comput':49 'd':16,37,216 'delet':19,100,193 'devic':53 'disabl':99 'doesn':221 'download':91,132 'duplic':154 'els':130 'error':195 'find':228,229 'folder':144 'format':117 'get':152 'hope':51 'idea':197 'ideal':214 'interfac':72 'keep':25 'like':17,38,237 'line':211 'local':27,101,155 'locat':162 'm':66 'mail':45,93,134,239 'messag':102,114,139,158,183,230 'metadata':169 'mobil':52 'move':141 'need':31,64 'network':56 'one':80,143 'option':81 'possibl':175 'put':181 'quota':14 'readili':121 'realiz':190 'realli':236 'reli':223 'remov':106 'search':62 'server':8,10,23,109,149,187 'situat':137,179 'smtp':7 'solut':219 'somehow':46 'someth':129 'storag':13,167 'store':112 'stuck':205 'stuff':20 'sure':68,164 'termin':226,238 'thunderbird':86,111 'use':85,120,128,208 'webmail':78 'welcom':200 'would':75,82,110,150,198"
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     …2
  }
  -cache: Symfony\Component\Cache\Adapter\TraceableTagAwareAdapter {#600 …}
}
entry_comment App\Twig\Components\EntryCommentComponent 16.0 MiB 291.09 ms
Input props
[
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    +user: App\Entity\User {#259
      +avatar: null
      +cover: null
      +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
      +username: "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
      +roles: []
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         …2
      }
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        +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#4079 …}
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        +description: """
          From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
          \n
          Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).\n
          \n
          Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.\n
          \n
          ### Rules\n
          \n
          - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
          - No misinformation\n
          - No NSFW content\n
          - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
          \n
          ### Related Communities\n
          \n
          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
          - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
          \n
          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
          """
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      +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2956 …}
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      +title: "How to keep all email locally in a useful format that can be searched across devices?"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        I have an account on an SMTP server. The server has a storage quota. I’d like the delete stuff from the server but keep it locally in case I need it. Just in case.\n
        \n
        I’d like to be able to access the mail somehow on other computers and hopefully mobile devices on my network so that it can be searched when needed. I’m not sure what the best interface for that would be. A webmail client?\n
        \n
        One option would be to use Thunderbird or another client to download the mail once in a while but disable deleting local messages when they are removed from the server. Would Thunderbird store the messages in a format I can use readily with other applications? Or should I use something else to download the mail?\n
        \n
        What about situations where messages are moved from one folder to another on the server? Would I get a duplicate locally of the message appearing in both locations? Not sure how the storage and metadata actually are.\n
        \n
        Also, is it possible in such a situation to put a message *back* on the server if I realize it was deleted in error?\n
        \n
        Any idea would be welcome. I am a bit stuck.\n
        \n
        I can use the command line comfortably but ideally I’d have a solution that doesn’t rely on the terminal to find find messages and such. I don’t really like terminal mail clients.
        """
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    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …2}
    +image: null
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    +body: """
      What I do is use Claws Mail with POP3, it has an option that allows a message to only be deleted from the server after a configurable period of time. So if you set it for 10 days for example the message will exist both locally on your PC and on the server for 10 days, after which it will only exist on the PC.\n
      \n
      It works pretty well in general. The only account giving me some trouble is Yahoo, which I suspect has some quirks, which occasionally cause the messages to be downloaded again and duplicated. Thankfully it’s easily fixed because Claws also has a feature to delete duplicates.\n
      \n
      This approach is different from IMAP, which would maintain a local offline cache of the live inbox, but you wouldn’t be able to only keep local messages — any change in one side would be reflected in both.\n
      \n
      However, Claws allows you to do both. You can have both a POP3 and an IMAP account connected to the same live box use the POP3 for offline archival, and the IMAP for when you want to put something back on the server, or if you need to look at other folders on the server besides inbox (POP3 cab only see the inbox, not trash, sent etc.)\n
      \n
      Normally I only do folders locally on the PC, on the mailbox connected with POP3, so none of the organization is reflected on the live mailbox, which is inbox only. Every once in a while I connect via IMAP to recover emails from the sent folder, which I’ve sent with webmail or from mobile (using IMAP on mobile too).\n
      \n
      If this doesn’t fit your workflow turn there are lots of IMAP syncing tools like you’ve noticed. IMAPsync is pretty good.\n
      \n
      The last step for my workflow would be to self host an IMAP server that will index the POP3 mailbox, and expose it read-only (without SMTP) through a webmail app, for archival and search only. I may have to look at Piler. The quirk here is that the Claws mailbox format is *slightly* different from IMAP, it’s very similar to mbox but not identical, will have to see if any IMAP server will accept it.\n
      \n
      Thunderbird is no go unfortunately, its main box format is to keep all messages on one big file instead of individual files, which complicates things a lot.
      """
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        +title: "linux"
        +description: """
          From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
          \n
          Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).\n
          \n
          Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.\n
          \n
          ### Rules\n
          \n
          - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
          - No misinformation\n
          - No NSFW content\n
          - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
          \n
          ### Related Communities\n
          \n
          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
          - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
          \n
          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
          """
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          date: 2023-11-02 13:51:08.0 +01:00
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      }
      +image: null
      +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2956 …}
      +slug: "How-to-keep-all-email-locally-in-a-useful-format"
      +title: "How to keep all email locally in a useful format that can be searched across devices?"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        I have an account on an SMTP server. The server has a storage quota. I’d like the delete stuff from the server but keep it locally in case I need it. Just in case.\n
        \n
        I’d like to be able to access the mail somehow on other computers and hopefully mobile devices on my network so that it can be searched when needed. I’m not sure what the best interface for that would be. A webmail client?\n
        \n
        One option would be to use Thunderbird or another client to download the mail once in a while but disable deleting local messages when they are removed from the server. Would Thunderbird store the messages in a format I can use readily with other applications? Or should I use something else to download the mail?\n
        \n
        What about situations where messages are moved from one folder to another on the server? Would I get a duplicate locally of the message appearing in both locations? Not sure how the storage and metadata actually are.\n
        \n
        Also, is it possible in such a situation to put a message *back* on the server if I realize it was deleted in error?\n
        \n
        Any idea would be welcome. I am a bit stuck.\n
        \n
        I can use the command line comfortably but ideally I’d have a solution that doesn’t rely on the terminal to find find messages and such. I don’t really like terminal mail clients.
        """
      +type: "article"
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      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3105 …}
      +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3107 …}
      +children: [
        App\Entity\EntryComment {#2384}
      ]
      -id: 14004
      -titleTs: "'across':15 'devic':16 'email':5 'format':10 'keep':3 'local':6 'search':14 'use':9"
      -bodyTs: "'abl':41 'access':43 'account':4 'actual':170 'also':172 'anoth':88,146 'appear':159 'applic':124 'back':184 'best':71 'bit':204 'case':29,35 'client':79,89,240 'comfort':212 'command':210 'comput':49 'd':16,37,216 'delet':19,100,193 'devic':53 'disabl':99 'doesn':221 'download':91,132 'duplic':154 'els':130 'error':195 'find':228,229 'folder':144 'format':117 'get':152 'hope':51 'idea':197 'ideal':214 'interfac':72 'keep':25 'like':17,38,237 'line':211 'local':27,101,155 'locat':162 'm':66 'mail':45,93,134,239 'messag':102,114,139,158,183,230 'metadata':169 'mobil':52 'move':141 'need':31,64 'network':56 'one':80,143 'option':81 'possibl':175 'put':181 'quota':14 'readili':121 'realiz':190 'realli':236 'reli':223 'remov':106 'search':62 'server':8,10,23,109,149,187 'situat':137,179 'smtp':7 'solut':219 'somehow':46 'someth':129 'storag':13,167 'store':112 'stuck':205 'stuff':20 'sure':68,164 'termin':226,238 'thunderbird':86,111 'use':85,120,128,208 'webmail':78 'welcom':200 'would':75,82,110,150,198"
      +cross: false
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +ranking: 1700352061
      +visibility: "visible             "
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      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700265661 {#3078
        date: 2023-11-18 01:01:01.0 +01:00
      }
      +__isInitialized__: true
       …2
    }
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …2}
    +image: null
    +parent: null
    +root: null
    +body: """
      What I do is use Claws Mail with POP3, it has an option that allows a message to only be deleted from the server after a configurable period of time. So if you set it for 10 days for example the message will exist both locally on your PC and on the server for 10 days, after which it will only exist on the PC.\n
      \n
      It works pretty well in general. The only account giving me some trouble is Yahoo, which I suspect has some quirks, which occasionally cause the messages to be downloaded again and duplicated. Thankfully it’s easily fixed because Claws also has a feature to delete duplicates.\n
      \n
      This approach is different from IMAP, which would maintain a local offline cache of the live inbox, but you wouldn’t be able to only keep local messages — any change in one side would be reflected in both.\n
      \n
      However, Claws allows you to do both. You can have both a POP3 and an IMAP account connected to the same live box use the POP3 for offline archival, and the IMAP for when you want to put something back on the server, or if you need to look at other folders on the server besides inbox (POP3 cab only see the inbox, not trash, sent etc.)\n
      \n
      Normally I only do folders locally on the PC, on the mailbox connected with POP3, so none of the organization is reflected on the live mailbox, which is inbox only. Every once in a while I connect via IMAP to recover emails from the sent folder, which I’ve sent with webmail or from mobile (using IMAP on mobile too).\n
      \n
      If this doesn’t fit your workflow turn there are lots of IMAP syncing tools like you’ve noticed. IMAPsync is pretty good.\n
      \n
      The last step for my workflow would be to self host an IMAP server that will index the POP3 mailbox, and expose it read-only (without SMTP) through a webmail app, for archival and search only. I may have to look at Piler. The quirk here is that the Claws mailbox format is *slightly* different from IMAP, it’s very similar to mbox but not identical, will have to see if any IMAP server will accept it.\n
      \n
      Thunderbird is no go unfortunately, its main box format is to keep all messages on one big file instead of individual files, which complicates things a lot.
      """
    +lang: "en"
    +isAdult: false
    +favouriteCount: 1
    +score: 0
    +lastActive: DateTime @1700277723 {#2382
      date: 2023-11-18 04:22:03.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +tags: null
    +mentions: [
      "@crank@beehaw.org"
    ]
    +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2379 …}
    +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2383 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1906 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1708 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1410 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1907 …}
    -id: 135856
    -bodyTs: "'10':37,55 'abl':134 'accept':376 'account':74,166 'allow':15,152 'also':105 'app':331 'approach':113 'archiv':178,333 'back':189 'besid':205 'big':394 'box':172,385 'cab':208 'cach':124 'caus':89 'chang':141 'claw':6,104,151,350 'complic':401 'configur':27 'connect':167,229,253 'day':38,56 'delet':21,110 'differ':115,355 'doesn':279 'download':94 'duplic':97,111 'easili':101 'email':258 'etc':216 'everi':247 'exampl':40 'exist':44,62 'expos':321 'featur':108 'file':395,399 'fit':281 'fix':102 'folder':201,221,262 'format':352,386 'general':71 'give':75 'go':381 'good':299 'host':310 'howev':150 'ident':366 'imap':117,165,181,255,273,289,312,357,373 'imapsync':296 'inbox':128,206,212,245 'index':316 'individu':398 'instead':396 'keep':137,389 'last':301 'like':292 'live':127,171,241 'local':46,122,138,222 'look':198,341 'lot':287,404 'mail':7 'mailbox':228,242,319,351 'main':384 'maintain':120 'may':338 'mbox':363 'messag':17,42,91,139,391 'mobil':271,275 'need':196 'none':233 'normal':217 'notic':295 'occasion':88 'offlin':123,177 'one':143,393 'option':13 'organ':236 'pc':49,65,225 'period':28 'piler':343 'pop3':9,162,175,207,231,318 'pretti':68,298 'put':187 'quirk':86,345 'read':324 'read-on':323 'recov':257 'reflect':147,238 'search':335 'see':210,370 'self':309 'sent':215,261,266 'server':24,53,192,204,313,374 'set':34 'side':144 'similar':361 'slight':354 'smtp':327 'someth':188 'step':302 'suspect':83 'sync':290 'thank':98 'thing':402 'thunderbird':378 'time':30 'tool':291 'trash':214 'troubl':78 'turn':284 'unfortun':382 'use':5,173,272 've':265,294 'via':254 'want':185 'webmail':268,330 'well':69 'without':326 'work':67 'workflow':283,305 'would':119,145,306 'wouldn':131 'yahoo':80"
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    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700277723 {#2385
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    }
    +"title": 135856
  }
  +showMagazineName: false
  +showEntryTitle: false
  +showNested: false
  +level: 1
  +canSeeTrash: false
  +dateAsUrl: true
  -requestStack: Symfony\Component\HttpFoundation\RequestStack {#1328 …}
  -authorizationChecker: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\AuthorizationChecker {#931 …}
}
user_inline App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent 16.0 MiB 0.21 ms
Input props
[
  "user" => App\Entity\User {#259
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +username: "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1727573233 {#267
      date: 2024-09-29 03:27:13.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
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    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
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    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
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    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
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    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1950 …}
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    +apInboxUrl: "https://feddit.nl/inbox"
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      date: 2024-09-22 23:15:33.0 +02:00
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    +apDeletedAt: null
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687169920 {#269
      date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
    }
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  "showAvatar" => false
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent {#17741
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    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +username: "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
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      date: 2024-09-29 03:27:13.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
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    +hideAdult: true
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    +featuredMagazines: null
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    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
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    -totpSecret: null
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    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1950 …}
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    +apProfileId: "https://feddit.nl/u/lemmyvore"
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    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://feddit.nl/inbox"
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    +apPreferredUsername: "lemmyvore"
    +apDiscoverable: true
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    +privateKey: null
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      date: 2024-09-22 23:15:33.0 +02:00
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    +apDeletedAt: null
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687169920 {#269
      date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  +showAvatar: false
}
date App\Twig\Components\DateComponent 16.0 MiB 0.20 ms
Input props
[
  "date" => DateTimeImmutable @1700277723 {#2385
    date: 2023-11-18 04:22:03.0 +01:00
  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateComponent {#17797
  +date: DateTimeImmutable @1700277723 {#2385
    date: 2023-11-18 04:22:03.0 +01:00
  }
}
date_edited App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent 16.0 MiB 0.12 ms
Input props
[
  "createdAt" => DateTimeImmutable @1700277723 {#2385
    date: 2023-11-18 04:22:03.0 +01:00
  }
  "editedAt" => null
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent {#17851
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700277723 {#2385
    date: 2023-11-18 04:22:03.0 +01:00
  }
  +editedAt: null
}
user_avatar App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent 16.0 MiB 0.35 ms
Input props
[
  "user" => App\Entity\User {#259
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +username: "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +roles: []
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    +markedForDeletionAt: null
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    +customCss: null
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    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
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    +privateKey: null
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    +apDeletedAt: null
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      date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  "width" => 40
  "height" => 40
  "asLink" => true
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent {#17905
  +width: 40
  +height: 40
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    +avatar: null
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    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
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    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
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      date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  +asLink: true
}
vote App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent 16.0 MiB 0.55 ms
Input props
[
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    +user: App\Entity\User {#259
      +avatar: null
      +cover: null
      +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
      +username: "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
      +roles: []
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      +markedForDeletionAt: null
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      +hideAdult: true
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      +showSubscribedMagazines: true
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      +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
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      +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#3058
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      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585
        +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#4079 …}
        +name: "linux@lemmy.ml"
        +title: "linux"
        +description: """
          From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
          \n
          Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).\n
          \n
          Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.\n
          \n
          ### Rules\n
          \n
          - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
          - No misinformation\n
          - No NSFW content\n
          - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
          \n
          ### Related Communities\n
          \n
          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
          - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
          \n
          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
          """
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      +image: null
      +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2956 …}
      +slug: "How-to-keep-all-email-locally-in-a-useful-format"
      +title: "How to keep all email locally in a useful format that can be searched across devices?"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        I have an account on an SMTP server. The server has a storage quota. I’d like the delete stuff from the server but keep it locally in case I need it. Just in case.\n
        \n
        I’d like to be able to access the mail somehow on other computers and hopefully mobile devices on my network so that it can be searched when needed. I’m not sure what the best interface for that would be. A webmail client?\n
        \n
        One option would be to use Thunderbird or another client to download the mail once in a while but disable deleting local messages when they are removed from the server. Would Thunderbird store the messages in a format I can use readily with other applications? Or should I use something else to download the mail?\n
        \n
        What about situations where messages are moved from one folder to another on the server? Would I get a duplicate locally of the message appearing in both locations? Not sure how the storage and metadata actually are.\n
        \n
        Also, is it possible in such a situation to put a message *back* on the server if I realize it was deleted in error?\n
        \n
        Any idea would be welcome. I am a bit stuck.\n
        \n
        I can use the command line comfortably but ideally I’d have a solution that doesn’t rely on the terminal to find find messages and such. I don’t really like terminal mail clients.
        """
      +type: "article"
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      +ip: null
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      ]
      -id: 14004
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      +cross: false
      +upVotes: 0
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        date: 2023-11-18 01:01:01.0 +01:00
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       …2
    }
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …2}
    +image: null
    +parent: null
    +root: null
    +body: """
      What I do is use Claws Mail with POP3, it has an option that allows a message to only be deleted from the server after a configurable period of time. So if you set it for 10 days for example the message will exist both locally on your PC and on the server for 10 days, after which it will only exist on the PC.\n
      \n
      It works pretty well in general. The only account giving me some trouble is Yahoo, which I suspect has some quirks, which occasionally cause the messages to be downloaded again and duplicated. Thankfully it’s easily fixed because Claws also has a feature to delete duplicates.\n
      \n
      This approach is different from IMAP, which would maintain a local offline cache of the live inbox, but you wouldn’t be able to only keep local messages — any change in one side would be reflected in both.\n
      \n
      However, Claws allows you to do both. You can have both a POP3 and an IMAP account connected to the same live box use the POP3 for offline archival, and the IMAP for when you want to put something back on the server, or if you need to look at other folders on the server besides inbox (POP3 cab only see the inbox, not trash, sent etc.)\n
      \n
      Normally I only do folders locally on the PC, on the mailbox connected with POP3, so none of the organization is reflected on the live mailbox, which is inbox only. Every once in a while I connect via IMAP to recover emails from the sent folder, which I’ve sent with webmail or from mobile (using IMAP on mobile too).\n
      \n
      If this doesn’t fit your workflow turn there are lots of IMAP syncing tools like you’ve noticed. IMAPsync is pretty good.\n
      \n
      The last step for my workflow would be to self host an IMAP server that will index the POP3 mailbox, and expose it read-only (without SMTP) through a webmail app, for archival and search only. I may have to look at Piler. The quirk here is that the Claws mailbox format is *slightly* different from IMAP, it’s very similar to mbox but not identical, will have to see if any IMAP server will accept it.\n
      \n
      Thunderbird is no go unfortunately, its main box format is to keep all messages on one big file instead of individual files, which complicates things a lot.
      """
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    ]
    +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2379 …}
    +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2383 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1906 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1708 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1410 …}
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    -id: 135856
    -bodyTs: "'10':37,55 'abl':134 'accept':376 'account':74,166 'allow':15,152 'also':105 'app':331 'approach':113 'archiv':178,333 'back':189 'besid':205 'big':394 'box':172,385 'cab':208 'cach':124 'caus':89 'chang':141 'claw':6,104,151,350 'complic':401 'configur':27 'connect':167,229,253 'day':38,56 'delet':21,110 'differ':115,355 'doesn':279 'download':94 'duplic':97,111 'easili':101 'email':258 'etc':216 'everi':247 'exampl':40 'exist':44,62 'expos':321 'featur':108 'file':395,399 'fit':281 'fix':102 'folder':201,221,262 'format':352,386 'general':71 'give':75 'go':381 'good':299 'host':310 'howev':150 'ident':366 'imap':117,165,181,255,273,289,312,357,373 'imapsync':296 'inbox':128,206,212,245 'index':316 'individu':398 'instead':396 'keep':137,389 'last':301 'like':292 'live':127,171,241 'local':46,122,138,222 'look':198,341 'lot':287,404 'mail':7 'mailbox':228,242,319,351 'main':384 'maintain':120 'may':338 'mbox':363 'messag':17,42,91,139,391 'mobil':271,275 'need':196 'none':233 'normal':217 'notic':295 'occasion':88 'offlin':123,177 'one':143,393 'option':13 'organ':236 'pc':49,65,225 'period':28 'piler':343 'pop3':9,162,175,207,231,318 'pretti':68,298 'put':187 'quirk':86,345 'read':324 'read-on':323 'recov':257 'reflect':147,238 'search':335 'see':210,370 'self':309 'sent':215,261,266 'server':24,53,192,204,313,374 'set':34 'side':144 'similar':361 'slight':354 'smtp':327 'someth':188 'step':302 'suspect':83 'sync':290 'thank':98 'thing':402 'thunderbird':378 'time':30 'tool':291 'trash':214 'troubl':78 'turn':284 'unfortun':382 'use':5,173,272 've':265,294 'via':254 'want':185 'webmail':268,330 'well':69 'without':326 'work':67 'workflow':283,305 'would':119,145,306 'wouldn':131 'yahoo':80"
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    +"title": 135856
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]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent {#18008
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    +user: App\Entity\User {#259
      +avatar: null
      +cover: null
      +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
      +username: "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
      +roles: []
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      +homepage: "front"
      +about: null
      +lastActive: DateTime @1727573233 {#267
        date: 2024-09-29 03:27:13.0 +02:00
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      +markedForDeletionAt: null
      +fields: null
      +oauthGithubId: null
      +oauthGoogleId: null
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      +hideAdult: true
      +showSubscribedUsers: true
      +showSubscribedMagazines: true
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      +preferredLanguages: []
      +featuredMagazines: null
      +showProfileSubscriptions: true
      +showProfileFollowings: true
      +markNewComments: false
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      +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
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      +isBanned: false
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      +spamProtection: true
      +customCss: null
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      +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
      +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
      +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#231 …}
      +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
      +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#161 …}
      +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#134 …}
      +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#104 …}
      +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#77 …}
      +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#92 …}
      +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1816 …}
      +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1851 …}
      +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1868 …}
      +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1594 …}
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      +apId: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
      +apProfileId: "https://feddit.nl/u/lemmyvore"
      +apPublicUrl: "https://feddit.nl/u/lemmyvore"
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      +apDiscoverable: true
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      +privateKey: null
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        date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
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    +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2378
      +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#3058
        +avatar: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#17149 …}
        +cover: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#17150 …}
        +email: "crank@beehaw.org"
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        +markedForDeletionAt: null
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        +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#17157 …}
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          date: 2024-01-07 14:39:50.0 +01:00
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          date: 2023-11-11 10:53:10.0 +01:00
        }
        +__isInitialized__: true
         …2
      }
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585
        +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#4079 …}
        +name: "linux@lemmy.ml"
        +title: "linux"
        +description: """
          From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
          \n
          Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).\n
          \n
          Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.\n
          \n
          ### Rules\n
          \n
          - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
          - No misinformation\n
          - No NSFW content\n
          - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
          \n
          ### Related Communities\n
          \n
          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
          - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
          \n
          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
          """
        +rules: null
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          date: 2024-09-29 03:21:04.643949 UTC (+00:00)
        }
        +markedForDeletionAt: null
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        +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4080 …}
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        +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4109 …}
        +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4133 …}
        -id: 73
        +apId: "linux@lemmy.ml"
        +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.ml/c/linux"
        +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.ml/c/linux"
        +apFollowersUrl: "https://lemmy.ml/c/linux/followers"
        +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.ml/inbox"
        +apDomain: "lemmy.ml"
        +apPreferredUsername: "linux"
        +apDiscoverable: true
        +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
        +privateKey: null
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        +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1727580691 {#4077
          date: 2024-09-29 03:31:31.538658 UTC (+00:00)
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        +apDeletedAt: null
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1698929468 {#4078
          date: 2023-11-02 13:51:08.0 +01:00
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        +__isInitialized__: true
         …2
      }
      +image: null
      +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2956 …}
      +slug: "How-to-keep-all-email-locally-in-a-useful-format"
      +title: "How to keep all email locally in a useful format that can be searched across devices?"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        I have an account on an SMTP server. The server has a storage quota. I’d like the delete stuff from the server but keep it locally in case I need it. Just in case.\n
        \n
        I’d like to be able to access the mail somehow on other computers and hopefully mobile devices on my network so that it can be searched when needed. I’m not sure what the best interface for that would be. A webmail client?\n
        \n
        One option would be to use Thunderbird or another client to download the mail once in a while but disable deleting local messages when they are removed from the server. Would Thunderbird store the messages in a format I can use readily with other applications? Or should I use something else to download the mail?\n
        \n
        What about situations where messages are moved from one folder to another on the server? Would I get a duplicate locally of the message appearing in both locations? Not sure how the storage and metadata actually are.\n
        \n
        Also, is it possible in such a situation to put a message *back* on the server if I realize it was deleted in error?\n
        \n
        Any idea would be welcome. I am a bit stuck.\n
        \n
        I can use the command line comfortably but ideally I’d have a solution that doesn’t rely on the terminal to find find messages and such. I don’t really like terminal mail clients.
        """
      +type: "article"
      +lang: "en"
      +isOc: false
      +hasEmbed: false
      +commentCount: 33
      +favouriteCount: 31
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      +lastActive: DateTime @1700654753 {#3091
        date: 2023-11-22 13:05:53.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +adaAmount: 0
      +tags: null
      +mentions: null
      +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3096 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3099 …}
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      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3103 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3105 …}
      +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3107 …}
      +children: [
        App\Entity\EntryComment {#2384}
      ]
      -id: 14004
      -titleTs: "'across':15 'devic':16 'email':5 'format':10 'keep':3 'local':6 'search':14 'use':9"
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      +cross: false
      +upVotes: 0
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      +ranking: 1700352061
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      +apId: "https://beehaw.org/post/9647306"
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        date: 2023-11-18 01:01:01.0 +01:00
      }
      +__isInitialized__: true
       …2
    }
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …2}
    +image: null
    +parent: null
    +root: null
    +body: """
      What I do is use Claws Mail with POP3, it has an option that allows a message to only be deleted from the server after a configurable period of time. So if you set it for 10 days for example the message will exist both locally on your PC and on the server for 10 days, after which it will only exist on the PC.\n
      \n
      It works pretty well in general. The only account giving me some trouble is Yahoo, which I suspect has some quirks, which occasionally cause the messages to be downloaded again and duplicated. Thankfully it’s easily fixed because Claws also has a feature to delete duplicates.\n
      \n
      This approach is different from IMAP, which would maintain a local offline cache of the live inbox, but you wouldn’t be able to only keep local messages — any change in one side would be reflected in both.\n
      \n
      However, Claws allows you to do both. You can have both a POP3 and an IMAP account connected to the same live box use the POP3 for offline archival, and the IMAP for when you want to put something back on the server, or if you need to look at other folders on the server besides inbox (POP3 cab only see the inbox, not trash, sent etc.)\n
      \n
      Normally I only do folders locally on the PC, on the mailbox connected with POP3, so none of the organization is reflected on the live mailbox, which is inbox only. Every once in a while I connect via IMAP to recover emails from the sent folder, which I’ve sent with webmail or from mobile (using IMAP on mobile too).\n
      \n
      If this doesn’t fit your workflow turn there are lots of IMAP syncing tools like you’ve noticed. IMAPsync is pretty good.\n
      \n
      The last step for my workflow would be to self host an IMAP server that will index the POP3 mailbox, and expose it read-only (without SMTP) through a webmail app, for archival and search only. I may have to look at Piler. The quirk here is that the Claws mailbox format is *slightly* different from IMAP, it’s very similar to mbox but not identical, will have to see if any IMAP server will accept it.\n
      \n
      Thunderbird is no go unfortunately, its main box format is to keep all messages on one big file instead of individual files, which complicates things a lot.
      """
    +lang: "en"
    +isAdult: false
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    }
    +ip: null
    +tags: null
    +mentions: [
      "@crank@beehaw.org"
    ]
    +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2379 …}
    +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2383 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1906 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1708 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1410 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1907 …}
    -id: 135856
    -bodyTs: "'10':37,55 'abl':134 'accept':376 'account':74,166 'allow':15,152 'also':105 'app':331 'approach':113 'archiv':178,333 'back':189 'besid':205 'big':394 'box':172,385 'cab':208 'cach':124 'caus':89 'chang':141 'claw':6,104,151,350 'complic':401 'configur':27 'connect':167,229,253 'day':38,56 'delet':21,110 'differ':115,355 'doesn':279 'download':94 'duplic':97,111 'easili':101 'email':258 'etc':216 'everi':247 'exampl':40 'exist':44,62 'expos':321 'featur':108 'file':395,399 'fit':281 'fix':102 'folder':201,221,262 'format':352,386 'general':71 'give':75 'go':381 'good':299 'host':310 'howev':150 'ident':366 'imap':117,165,181,255,273,289,312,357,373 'imapsync':296 'inbox':128,206,212,245 'index':316 'individu':398 'instead':396 'keep':137,389 'last':301 'like':292 'live':127,171,241 'local':46,122,138,222 'look':198,341 'lot':287,404 'mail':7 'mailbox':228,242,319,351 'main':384 'maintain':120 'may':338 'mbox':363 'messag':17,42,91,139,391 'mobil':271,275 'need':196 'none':233 'normal':217 'notic':295 'occasion':88 'offlin':123,177 'one':143,393 'option':13 'organ':236 'pc':49,65,225 'period':28 'piler':343 'pop3':9,162,175,207,231,318 'pretti':68,298 'put':187 'quirk':86,345 'read':324 'read-on':323 'recov':257 'reflect':147,238 'search':335 'see':210,370 'self':309 'sent':215,261,266 'server':24,53,192,204,313,374 'set':34 'side':144 'similar':361 'slight':354 'smtp':327 'someth':188 'step':302 'suspect':83 'sync':290 'thank':98 'thing':402 'thunderbird':378 'time':30 'tool':291 'trash':214 'troubl':78 'turn':284 'unfortun':382 'use':5,173,272 've':265,294 'via':254 'want':185 'webmail':268,330 'well':69 'without':326 'work':67 'workflow':283,305 'would':119,145,306 'wouldn':131 'yahoo':80"
    +ranking: 0
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    +"title": 135856
  }
  +formDest: "entry_comment"
  +showDownvote: true
  -cache: Symfony\Component\Cache\Adapter\TraceableTagAwareAdapter {#600 …}
}
boost App\Twig\Components\BoostComponent 16.0 MiB 1.11 ms
Input props
[
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      +avatar: null
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      +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
      +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
      +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#231 …}
      +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
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      +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#134 …}
      +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#104 …}
      +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#77 …}
      +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#92 …}
      +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1816 …}
      +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1851 …}
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      +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1846 …}
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      -totpSecret: null
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      -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1950 …}
      +apId: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
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      +apInboxUrl: "https://feddit.nl/inbox"
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      +apDiscoverable: true
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      +privateKey: null
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      +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1727039733 {#272
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      +apDeletedAt: null
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      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687169920 {#269
        date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
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    }
    +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2378
      +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#3058
        +avatar: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#17149 …}
        +cover: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#17150 …}
        +email: "crank@beehaw.org"
        +username: "@crank@beehaw.org"
        +roles: []
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        +markedForDeletionAt: null
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        +name: "linux@lemmy.ml"
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        +description: """
          From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
          \n
          Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).\n
          \n
          Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.\n
          \n
          ### Rules\n
          \n
          - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
          - No misinformation\n
          - No NSFW content\n
          - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
          \n
          ### Related Communities\n
          \n
          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
          - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
          \n
          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
          """
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      +slug: "How-to-keep-all-email-locally-in-a-useful-format"
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        I have an account on an SMTP server. The server has a storage quota. I’d like the delete stuff from the server but keep it locally in case I need it. Just in case.\n
        \n
        I’d like to be able to access the mail somehow on other computers and hopefully mobile devices on my network so that it can be searched when needed. I’m not sure what the best interface for that would be. A webmail client?\n
        \n
        One option would be to use Thunderbird or another client to download the mail once in a while but disable deleting local messages when they are removed from the server. Would Thunderbird store the messages in a format I can use readily with other applications? Or should I use something else to download the mail?\n
        \n
        What about situations where messages are moved from one folder to another on the server? Would I get a duplicate locally of the message appearing in both locations? Not sure how the storage and metadata actually are.\n
        \n
        Also, is it possible in such a situation to put a message *back* on the server if I realize it was deleted in error?\n
        \n
        Any idea would be welcome. I am a bit stuck.\n
        \n
        I can use the command line comfortably but ideally I’d have a solution that doesn’t rely on the terminal to find find messages and such. I don’t really like terminal mail clients.
        """
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    +image: null
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    +body: """
      What I do is use Claws Mail with POP3, it has an option that allows a message to only be deleted from the server after a configurable period of time. So if you set it for 10 days for example the message will exist both locally on your PC and on the server for 10 days, after which it will only exist on the PC.\n
      \n
      It works pretty well in general. The only account giving me some trouble is Yahoo, which I suspect has some quirks, which occasionally cause the messages to be downloaded again and duplicated. Thankfully it’s easily fixed because Claws also has a feature to delete duplicates.\n
      \n
      This approach is different from IMAP, which would maintain a local offline cache of the live inbox, but you wouldn’t be able to only keep local messages — any change in one side would be reflected in both.\n
      \n
      However, Claws allows you to do both. You can have both a POP3 and an IMAP account connected to the same live box use the POP3 for offline archival, and the IMAP for when you want to put something back on the server, or if you need to look at other folders on the server besides inbox (POP3 cab only see the inbox, not trash, sent etc.)\n
      \n
      Normally I only do folders locally on the PC, on the mailbox connected with POP3, so none of the organization is reflected on the live mailbox, which is inbox only. Every once in a while I connect via IMAP to recover emails from the sent folder, which I’ve sent with webmail or from mobile (using IMAP on mobile too).\n
      \n
      If this doesn’t fit your workflow turn there are lots of IMAP syncing tools like you’ve noticed. IMAPsync is pretty good.\n
      \n
      The last step for my workflow would be to self host an IMAP server that will index the POP3 mailbox, and expose it read-only (without SMTP) through a webmail app, for archival and search only. I may have to look at Piler. The quirk here is that the Claws mailbox format is *slightly* different from IMAP, it’s very similar to mbox but not identical, will have to see if any IMAP server will accept it.\n
      \n
      Thunderbird is no go unfortunately, its main box format is to keep all messages on one big file instead of individual files, which complicates things a lot.
      """
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]
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Component
App\Twig\Components\BoostComponent {#18065
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      }
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585
        +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#4079 …}
        +name: "linux@lemmy.ml"
        +title: "linux"
        +description: """
          From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
          \n
          Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).\n
          \n
          Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.\n
          \n
          ### Rules\n
          \n
          - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
          - No misinformation\n
          - No NSFW content\n
          - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
          \n
          ### Related Communities\n
          \n
          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
          - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
          \n
          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
          """
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      +slug: "How-to-keep-all-email-locally-in-a-useful-format"
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      +url: null
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        I have an account on an SMTP server. The server has a storage quota. I’d like the delete stuff from the server but keep it locally in case I need it. Just in case.\n
        \n
        I’d like to be able to access the mail somehow on other computers and hopefully mobile devices on my network so that it can be searched when needed. I’m not sure what the best interface for that would be. A webmail client?\n
        \n
        One option would be to use Thunderbird or another client to download the mail once in a while but disable deleting local messages when they are removed from the server. Would Thunderbird store the messages in a format I can use readily with other applications? Or should I use something else to download the mail?\n
        \n
        What about situations where messages are moved from one folder to another on the server? Would I get a duplicate locally of the message appearing in both locations? Not sure how the storage and metadata actually are.\n
        \n
        Also, is it possible in such a situation to put a message *back* on the server if I realize it was deleted in error?\n
        \n
        Any idea would be welcome. I am a bit stuck.\n
        \n
        I can use the command line comfortably but ideally I’d have a solution that doesn’t rely on the terminal to find find messages and such. I don’t really like terminal mail clients.
        """
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    +image: null
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    +body: """
      What I do is use Claws Mail with POP3, it has an option that allows a message to only be deleted from the server after a configurable period of time. So if you set it for 10 days for example the message will exist both locally on your PC and on the server for 10 days, after which it will only exist on the PC.\n
      \n
      It works pretty well in general. The only account giving me some trouble is Yahoo, which I suspect has some quirks, which occasionally cause the messages to be downloaded again and duplicated. Thankfully it’s easily fixed because Claws also has a feature to delete duplicates.\n
      \n
      This approach is different from IMAP, which would maintain a local offline cache of the live inbox, but you wouldn’t be able to only keep local messages — any change in one side would be reflected in both.\n
      \n
      However, Claws allows you to do both. You can have both a POP3 and an IMAP account connected to the same live box use the POP3 for offline archival, and the IMAP for when you want to put something back on the server, or if you need to look at other folders on the server besides inbox (POP3 cab only see the inbox, not trash, sent etc.)\n
      \n
      Normally I only do folders locally on the PC, on the mailbox connected with POP3, so none of the organization is reflected on the live mailbox, which is inbox only. Every once in a while I connect via IMAP to recover emails from the sent folder, which I’ve sent with webmail or from mobile (using IMAP on mobile too).\n
      \n
      If this doesn’t fit your workflow turn there are lots of IMAP syncing tools like you’ve noticed. IMAPsync is pretty good.\n
      \n
      The last step for my workflow would be to self host an IMAP server that will index the POP3 mailbox, and expose it read-only (without SMTP) through a webmail app, for archival and search only. I may have to look at Piler. The quirk here is that the Claws mailbox format is *slightly* different from IMAP, it’s very similar to mbox but not identical, will have to see if any IMAP server will accept it.\n
      \n
      Thunderbird is no go unfortunately, its main box format is to keep all messages on one big file instead of individual files, which complicates things a lot.
      """
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      +description: """
        From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
        \n
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        - No misinformation\n
        - No NSFW content\n
        - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
        \n
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        \n
        - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
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        - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
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        \n
        Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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        +body: "Because if I install bluetooth it’s because I have some bluetooth devices I want to use?.."
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2117
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          Out of curiosity, what’s the point of installing Bluetooth but keeping it disabled?\n
          \n
          I imagine the opposite would be the default most people wanted (enable it by default and let power users with a bizarre use case disable it manually).
          """
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     …2
  }
  "dateAsUrl" => true
]
Attributes
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]
Component
App\Twig\Components\EntryComponent {#18316
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        \n
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        \n
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        \n
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        - No misinformation\n
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        \n
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        \n
        - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
        - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
        - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
        - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
        \n
        Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
        """
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          -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1950 …}
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            date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
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        }
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2048 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …2}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2192 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2100 …}
        +body: "Because if I install bluetooth it’s because I have some bluetooth devices I want to use?.."
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          "@Synthead@lemmy.world"
          "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
          "@sederx@programming.dev"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2189 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2311 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2293 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2309 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2302 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2320 …}
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        }
        +"title": 143369
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2117
        +user: App\Entity\User {#259}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2048 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …2}
        +image: null
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2122 …}
        +body: """
          Out of curiosity, what’s the point of installing Bluetooth but keeping it disabled?\n
          \n
          I imagine the opposite would be the default most people wanted (enable it by default and let power users with a bizarre use case disable it manually).
          """
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          "@petsoi@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@pastermil@sh.itjust.works"
          "@Jumuta@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2115 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2123 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2116 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2161 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2163 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2044 …}
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        -bodyTs: "'bizarr':36 'bluetooth':10 'case':38 'curios':3 'default':22,29 'disabl':14,39 'enabl':26 'imagin':16 'instal':9 'keep':12 'let':31 'manual':41 'opposit':18 'peopl':24 'point':7 'power':32 'use':37 'user':33 'want':25 'would':19"
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          date: 2023-11-20 12:44:31.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 142593
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2104
        +user: App\Entity\User {#259}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2048 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …2}
        +image: null
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2100 …}
        +body: "Why doesn’t it start automatically anyway?"
        +lang: "en"
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          "@Synthead@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2099 …}
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          date: 2023-11-20 12:43:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 142591
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2049
        +user: App\Entity\User {#259}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2048 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …2}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2051 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2056 …}
        +body: "What on Earth for. I don’t think I’ve used it more than a couple of times over the last 5 years, and that was for arcane stuff like enabling `rc.local` (which is something every user should probably *not* know about…)"
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2023-11-20 12:42:55.0 +01:00
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          "@Synthead@lemmy.world"
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        ]
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          date: 2023-11-20 12:42:55.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 142589
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2043
        +user: App\Entity\User {#259}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2048 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …2}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2139 …}
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        +body: "So, like, you have to manually enable every service you install?"
        +lang: "en"
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          "@petsoi@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Synthead@lemmy.world"
          "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2215 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2198 …}
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        -bodyTs: "'enabl':7 'everi':8 'instal':11 'like':2 'manual':6 'servic':9"
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    -id: 14090
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     …2
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}
user_inline App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent 16.0 MiB 0.21 ms
Input props
[
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    +avatar: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#10308 …}
    +cover: null
    +email: "petsoi@discuss.tchncs.de"
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    +markedForDeletionAt: null
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    +customCss: null
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    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10309 …}
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     …2
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]
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[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent {#18365
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    +markedForDeletionAt: null
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    +addMentionsEntries: false
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    +customCss: null
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    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10311 …}
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}
date App\Twig\Components\DateComponent 16.0 MiB 0.21 ms
Input props
[
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    date: 2023-11-18 08:33:04.0 +01:00
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]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateComponent {#18420
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    date: 2023-11-18 08:33:04.0 +01:00
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}
date_edited App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent 16.0 MiB 0.13 ms
Input props
[
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  "editedAt" => null
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent {#18474
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    date: 2023-11-18 08:33:04.0 +01:00
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  +editedAt: null
}
magazine_inline App\Twig\Components\MagazineInlineComponent 16.0 MiB 0.18 ms
Input props
[
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    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#4079 …}
    +name: "linux@lemmy.ml"
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    +description: """
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      \n
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      \n
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      \n
      ### Rules\n
      \n
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      - No misinformation\n
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      - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
      \n
      ### Related Communities\n
      \n
      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
      \n
      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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    +rules: null
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        +body: "What on Earth for. I don’t think I’ve used it more than a couple of times over the last 5 years, and that was for arcane stuff like enabling `rc.local` (which is something every user should probably *not* know about…)"
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Component
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          Out of curiosity, what’s the point of installing Bluetooth but keeping it disabled?\n
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        +body: "What on Earth for. I don’t think I’ve used it more than a couple of times over the last 5 years, and that was for arcane stuff like enabling `rc.local` (which is something every user should probably *not* know about…)"
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        +body: "What on Earth for. I don’t think I’ve used it more than a couple of times over the last 5 years, and that was for arcane stuff like enabling `rc.local` (which is something every user should probably *not* know about…)"
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        +body: "What on Earth for. I don’t think I’ve used it more than a couple of times over the last 5 years, and that was for arcane stuff like enabling `rc.local` (which is something every user should probably *not* know about…)"
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entry_comment App\Twig\Components\EntryCommentComponent 18.0 MiB 155.48 ms
Input props
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          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
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          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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      +children: [
        4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2252}
        3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2117
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          +body: """
            Out of curiosity, what’s the point of installing Bluetooth but keeping it disabled?\n
            \n
            I imagine the opposite would be the default most people wanted (enable it by default and let power users with a bizarre use case disable it manually).
            """
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        1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2104
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        2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2049
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          +body: "What on Earth for. I don’t think I’ve used it more than a couple of times over the last 5 years, and that was for arcane stuff like enabling `rc.local` (which is something every user should probably *not* know about…)"
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        0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2043
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          +body: "So, like, you have to manually enable every service you install?"
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    +body: "Because if I install bluetooth it’s because I have some bluetooth devices I want to use?.."
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]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\EntryCommentComponent {#18901
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    +user: App\Entity\User {#259
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      +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
      +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
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      +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
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    +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2048
      +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2908
        +avatar: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#10308 …}
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        +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10309 …}
        +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10311 …}
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        +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10315 …}
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        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10347 …}
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        +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10351 …}
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        -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10361 …}
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          date: 2023-11-02 13:53:57.0 +01:00
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        +__isInitialized__: true
         …2
      }
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585
        +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#4079 …}
        +name: "linux@lemmy.ml"
        +title: "linux"
        +description: """
          From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
          \n
          Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).\n
          \n
          Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.\n
          \n
          ### Rules\n
          \n
          - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
          - No misinformation\n
          - No NSFW content\n
          - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
          \n
          ### Related Communities\n
          \n
          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
          - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
          \n
          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
          """
        +rules: null
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        +markedForDeletionAt: null
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        +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4080 …}
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        -id: 73
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      }
      +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3023 …}
      +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3077 …}
      +slug: "Enabling-Bluetooth-on-Arch-Linux"
      +title: "Enabling Bluetooth on Arch Linux"
      +url: "https://itsfoss.com/bluetooth-arch-linux/"
      +body: null
      +type: "link"
      +lang: "en"
      +isOc: false
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      +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3079 …}
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      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3087 …}
      +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3089 …}
      +children: [
        4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2252}
        3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2117
          +user: App\Entity\User {#259}
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          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …2}
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          +body: """
            Out of curiosity, what’s the point of installing Bluetooth but keeping it disabled?\n
            \n
            I imagine the opposite would be the default most people wanted (enable it by default and let power users with a bizarre use case disable it manually).
            """
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            "@pastermil@sh.itjust.works"
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        1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2104
          +user: App\Entity\User {#259}
          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2048 …2}
          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …2}
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          +body: "Why doesn’t it start automatically anyway?"
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        2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2049
          +user: App\Entity\User {#259}
          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2048 …2}
          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …2}
          +image: null
          +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2051 …}
          +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2056 …}
          +body: "What on Earth for. I don’t think I’ve used it more than a couple of times over the last 5 years, and that was for arcane stuff like enabling `rc.local` (which is something every user should probably *not* know about…)"
          +lang: "en"
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          -id: 142589
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          +"title": 142589
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        0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2043
          +user: App\Entity\User {#259}
          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2048 …2}
          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …2}
          +image: null
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          +body: "So, like, you have to manually enable every service you install?"
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            "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
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      ]
      -id: 14090
      -titleTs: "'arch':4 'bluetooth':2 'enabl':1 'linux':5"
      -bodyTs: null
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       …2
    }
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …2}
    +image: null
    +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2192 …}
    +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2100 …}
    +body: "Because if I install bluetooth it’s because I have some bluetooth devices I want to use?.."
    +lang: "en"
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      "@Synthead@lemmy.world"
      "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
      "@sederx@programming.dev"
    ]
    +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2189 …}
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  -requestStack: Symfony\Component\HttpFoundation\RequestStack {#1328 …}
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}
user_inline App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent 18.0 MiB 0.21 ms
Input props
[
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    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: true
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: false
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
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    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#231 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#161 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#134 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#104 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#77 …}
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    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1816 …}
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    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1868 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1594 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1602 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1768 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1862 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1836 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1846 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1831 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2410 …}
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    -totpSecret: null
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    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1950 …}
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    +privateKey: null
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687169920 {#269
      date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
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  }
  "showAvatar" => false
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent {#18946
  +user: App\Entity\User {#259
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +username: "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1727573233 {#267
      date: 2024-09-29 03:27:13.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
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    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: true
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
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    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: false
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
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    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#231 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#161 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#134 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#104 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#77 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#92 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1816 …}
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    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1602 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1768 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1862 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1836 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1846 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1831 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2410 …}
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    -totpSecret: null
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    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1950 …}
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    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://feddit.nl/inbox"
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    +apDiscoverable: true
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    +privateKey: null
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    +apDeletedAt: null
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687169920 {#269
      date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
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  +showAvatar: false
}
date App\Twig\Components\DateComponent 18.0 MiB 0.18 ms
Input props
[
  "date" => DateTimeImmutable @1700501520 {#2228
    date: 2023-11-20 18:32:00.0 +01:00
  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateComponent {#19002
  +date: DateTimeImmutable @1700501520 {#2228
    date: 2023-11-20 18:32:00.0 +01:00
  }
}
date_edited App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent 18.0 MiB 0.11 ms
Input props
[
  "createdAt" => DateTimeImmutable @1700501520 {#2228
    date: 2023-11-20 18:32:00.0 +01:00
  }
  "editedAt" => null
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent {#19056
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700501520 {#2228
    date: 2023-11-20 18:32:00.0 +01:00
  }
  +editedAt: null
}
user_avatar App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent 18.0 MiB 0.26 ms
Input props
[
  "user" => App\Entity\User {#259
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +username: "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1727573233 {#267
      date: 2024-09-29 03:27:13.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
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    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
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    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
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    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
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    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
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    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#161 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#134 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#104 …}
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    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1602 …}
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    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1836 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1846 …}
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    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1950 …}
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687169920 {#269
      date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  "width" => 40
  "height" => 40
  "asLink" => true
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent {#19110
  +width: 40
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    +markedForDeletionAt: null
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    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
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    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#161 …}
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      date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
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}
vote App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent 18.0 MiB 0.57 ms
Input props
[
  "subject" => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2252
    +user: App\Entity\User {#259
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      +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
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      +isBot: false
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      +customCss: null
      +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
      +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
      +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
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      +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
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      +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1602 …}
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      +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1862 …}
      +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1836 …}
      +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1846 …}
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      -totpBackupCodes: []
      -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1950 …}
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      +privateKey: null
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      +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1727039733 {#272
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      +apDeletedAt: null
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      +visibility: "visible             "
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687169920 {#269
        date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
      }
    }
    +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2048
      +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2908
        +avatar: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#10308 …}
        +cover: null
        +email: "petsoi@discuss.tchncs.de"
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        +customCss: null
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        +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10309 …}
        +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10311 …}
        +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10313 …}
        +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10315 …}
        +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10317 …}
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        +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10321 …}
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        +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10325 …}
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          \n
          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
          - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
          \n
          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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            Out of curiosity, what’s the point of installing Bluetooth but keeping it disabled?\n
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          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
          - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
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          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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            Out of curiosity, what’s the point of installing Bluetooth but keeping it disabled?\n
            \n
            I imagine the opposite would be the default most people wanted (enable it by default and let power users with a bizarre use case disable it manually).
            """
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boost App\Twig\Components\BoostComponent 18.0 MiB 0.93 ms
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          Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).\n
          \n
          Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.\n
          \n
          ### Rules\n
          \n
          - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
          - No misinformation\n
          - No NSFW content\n
          - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
          \n
          ### Related Communities\n
          \n
          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
          - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
          \n
          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
          """
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      +slug: "Enabling-Bluetooth-on-Arch-Linux"
      +title: "Enabling Bluetooth on Arch Linux"
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          +body: """
            Out of curiosity, what’s the point of installing Bluetooth but keeping it disabled?\n
            \n
            I imagine the opposite would be the default most people wanted (enable it by default and let power users with a bizarre use case disable it manually).
            """
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          +body: "What on Earth for. I don’t think I’ve used it more than a couple of times over the last 5 years, and that was for arcane stuff like enabling `rc.local` (which is something every user should probably *not* know about…)"
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    +body: "Because if I install bluetooth it’s because I have some bluetooth devices I want to use?.."
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        +description: """
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          \n
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          \n
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          ### Rules\n
          \n
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          - No misinformation\n
          - No NSFW content\n
          - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
          \n
          ### Related Communities\n
          \n
          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
          - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
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          +body: """
            Out of curiosity, what’s the point of installing Bluetooth but keeping it disabled?\n
            \n
            I imagine the opposite would be the default most people wanted (enable it by default and let power users with a bizarre use case disable it manually).
            """
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          +body: "What on Earth for. I don’t think I’ve used it more than a couple of times over the last 5 years, and that was for arcane stuff like enabling `rc.local` (which is something every user should probably *not* know about…)"
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entry_comment App\Twig\Components\EntryCommentComponent 18.0 MiB 29.76 ms
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          \n
          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
          - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
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          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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          +body: "Because if I install bluetooth it’s because I have some bluetooth devices I want to use?.."
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      Out of curiosity, what’s the point of installing Bluetooth but keeping it disabled?\n
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      """
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      }
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      +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3077 …}
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        4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2252
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          +body: "Because if I install bluetooth it’s because I have some bluetooth devices I want to use?.."
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          +body: "What on Earth for. I don’t think I’ve used it more than a couple of times over the last 5 years, and that was for arcane stuff like enabling `rc.local` (which is something every user should probably *not* know about…)"
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      Out of curiosity, what’s the point of installing Bluetooth but keeping it disabled?\n
      \n
      I imagine the opposite would be the default most people wanted (enable it by default and let power users with a bizarre use case disable it manually).
      """
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user_inline App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent 18.0 MiB 0.17 ms
Input props
[
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[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent {#19532
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date App\Twig\Components\DateComponent 18.0 MiB 0.16 ms
Input props
[
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]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateComponent {#19588
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}
date_edited App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent 18.0 MiB 0.19 ms
Input props
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Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent {#19642
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}
user_avatar App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent 18.0 MiB 0.25 ms
Input props
[
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  }
  "width" => 40
  "height" => 40
  "asLink" => true
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent {#19696
  +width: 40
  +height: 40
  +user: App\Entity\User {#259
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +username: "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1727573233 {#267
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    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
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    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: true
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    +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
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    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#231 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#161 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#134 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#104 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#77 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#92 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1816 …}
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    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1868 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1594 …}
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    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1836 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1846 …}
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    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2410 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1955 …}
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    +apDeletedAt: null
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      date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
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  }
  +asLink: true
}
vote App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent 18.0 MiB 0.43 ms
Input props
[
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    +user: App\Entity\User {#259
      +avatar: null
      +cover: null
      +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
      +username: "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
      +roles: []
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      +markedForDeletionAt: null
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      +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
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      +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
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      +isBot: false
      +spamProtection: true
      +customCss: null
      +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
      +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
      +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
      +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#231 …}
      +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
      +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#161 …}
      +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#134 …}
      +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#104 …}
      +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#77 …}
      +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#92 …}
      +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1816 …}
      +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1851 …}
      +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1868 …}
      +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1594 …}
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      +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1836 …}
      +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1846 …}
      +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1831 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2410 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1955 …}
      +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2399 …}
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      -totpSecret: null
      -totpBackupCodes: []
      -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1950 …}
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    }
    +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2048
      +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2908
        +avatar: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#10308 …}
        +cover: null
        +email: "petsoi@discuss.tchncs.de"
        +username: "@petsoi@discuss.tchncs.de"
        +roles: []
        +followersCount: 0
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        +markedForDeletionAt: null
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        +isBot: false
        +spamProtection: true
        +customCss: null
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        +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10309 …}
        +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10311 …}
        +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10313 …}
        +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10315 …}
        +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10317 …}
        +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10319 …}
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        +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10339 …}
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        +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10343 …}
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        }
        +__isInitialized__: true
         …2
      }
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585
        +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#4079 …}
        +name: "linux@lemmy.ml"
        +title: "linux"
        +description: """
          From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
          \n
          Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).\n
          \n
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          \n
          ### Rules\n
          \n
          - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
          - No misinformation\n
          - No NSFW content\n
          - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
          \n
          ### Related Communities\n
          \n
          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
          - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
          \n
          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
          """
        +rules: null
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        }
        +markedForDeletionAt: null
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        +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4082 …}
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        +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4090 …}
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        +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4109 …}
        +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4133 …}
        -id: 73
        +apId: "linux@lemmy.ml"
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          date: 2023-11-02 13:51:08.0 +01:00
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        +__isInitialized__: true
         …2
      }
      +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3023 …}
      +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3077 …}
      +slug: "Enabling-Bluetooth-on-Arch-Linux"
      +title: "Enabling Bluetooth on Arch Linux"
      +url: "https://itsfoss.com/bluetooth-arch-linux/"
      +body: null
      +type: "link"
      +lang: "en"
      +isOc: false
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      +lastActive: DateTime @1700523772 {#3072
        date: 2023-11-21 00:42:52.0 +01:00
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      +ip: null
      +adaAmount: 0
      +tags: null
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      +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3079 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3081 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3083 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3085 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3087 …}
      +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3089 …}
      +children: [
        4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2252
          +user: App\Entity\User {#259}
          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2048 …2}
          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …2}
          +image: null
          +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2192 …}
          +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2100 …}
          +body: "Because if I install bluetooth it’s because I have some bluetooth devices I want to use?.."
          +lang: "en"
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          +favouriteCount: 0
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            "@Synthead@lemmy.world"
            "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
            "@sederx@programming.dev"
          ]
          +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2189 …}
          +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2311 …}
          +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2293 …}
          +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2309 …}
          +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2302 …}
          +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2320 …}
          -id: 143369
          -bodyTs: "'bluetooth':5,12 'devic':13 'instal':4 'use':17 'want':15"
          +ranking: 0
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          +upVotes: 0
          +downVotes: 0
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            date: 2023-11-20 18:32:00.0 +01:00
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        }
        3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2117}
        1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2104
          +user: App\Entity\User {#259}
          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2048 …2}
          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …2}
          +image: null
          +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2100 …}
          +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2100 …}
          +body: "Why doesn’t it start automatically anyway?"
          +lang: "en"
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            "@petsoi@discuss.tchncs.de"
            "@Synthead@lemmy.world"
          ]
          +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2099 …}
          +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2108 …}
          +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2101 …}
          +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2109 …}
          +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2106 …}
          +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2107 …}
          -id: 142591
          -bodyTs: "'anyway':7 'automat':6 'doesn':2 'start':5"
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          +"title": 142591
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        2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2049
          +user: App\Entity\User {#259}
          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2048 …2}
          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …2}
          +image: null
          +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2051 …}
          +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2056 …}
          +body: "What on Earth for. I don’t think I’ve used it more than a couple of times over the last 5 years, and that was for arcane stuff like enabling `rc.local` (which is something every user should probably *not* know about…)"
          +lang: "en"
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            "@petsoi@discuss.tchncs.de"
            "@x3i@lemmy.x3i.tech"
            "@Synthead@lemmy.world"
            "@luthis@lemmy.nz"
          ]
          +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2059 …}
          +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2047 …}
          +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2057 …}
          +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2055 …}
          +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2054 …}
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      Out of curiosity, what’s the point of installing Bluetooth but keeping it disabled?\n
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      Out of curiosity, what’s the point of installing Bluetooth but keeping it disabled?\n
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boost App\Twig\Components\BoostComponent 18.0 MiB 0.83 ms
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          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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      Out of curiosity, what’s the point of installing Bluetooth but keeping it disabled?\n
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      Out of curiosity, what’s the point of installing Bluetooth but keeping it disabled?\n
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      """
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entry_comment App\Twig\Components\EntryCommentComponent 18.0 MiB 5.91 ms
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          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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            Out of curiosity, what’s the point of installing Bluetooth but keeping it disabled?\n
            \n
            I imagine the opposite would be the default most people wanted (enable it by default and let power users with a bizarre use case disable it manually).
            """
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          +body: "Because if I install bluetooth it’s because I have some bluetooth devices I want to use?.."
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            Out of curiosity, what’s the point of installing Bluetooth but keeping it disabled?\n
            \n
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            """
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    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2101 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2109 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2106 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2107 …}
    -id: 142591
    -bodyTs: "'anyway':7 'automat':6 'doesn':2 'start':5"
    +ranking: 0
    +commentCount: 0
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://feddit.nl/comment/4728575"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700480629 {#2041
      date: 2023-11-20 12:43:49.0 +01:00
    }
    +"title": 142591
  }
  +showMagazineName: false
  +showEntryTitle: false
  +showNested: false
  +level: 1
  +canSeeTrash: false
  +dateAsUrl: true
  -requestStack: Symfony\Component\HttpFoundation\RequestStack {#1328 …}
  -authorizationChecker: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\AuthorizationChecker {#931 …}
}
user_inline App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent 18.0 MiB 0.17 ms
Input props
[
  "user" => App\Entity\User {#259
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +username: "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1727573233 {#267
      date: 2024-09-29 03:27:13.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: true
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: false
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
    +isVerified: false
    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#231 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#161 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#134 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#104 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#77 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#92 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1816 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1851 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1868 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1594 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1602 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1768 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1862 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1836 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1846 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1831 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2410 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1955 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2399 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1911 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1914 …}
    +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1884 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1915 …}
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    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1950 …}
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    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://feddit.nl/inbox"
    +apDomain: "feddit.nl"
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    +apDiscoverable: true
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    +privateKey: null
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    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1727039733 {#272
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    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
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    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687169920 {#269
      date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  "showAvatar" => false
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent {#20122
  +user: App\Entity\User {#259
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +username: "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1727573233 {#267
      date: 2024-09-29 03:27:13.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
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    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
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    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: true
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
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    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
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    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#231 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#161 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#134 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#104 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#77 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#92 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1816 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1851 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1868 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1594 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1602 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1768 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1862 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1836 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1846 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1831 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2410 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1955 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2399 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1911 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1914 …}
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    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1950 …}
    +apId: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +apProfileId: "https://feddit.nl/u/lemmyvore"
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    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://feddit.nl/inbox"
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    +apDiscoverable: true
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    +privateKey: null
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    +apDeletedAt: null
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687169920 {#269
      date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
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  +showAvatar: false
}
date App\Twig\Components\DateComponent 18.0 MiB 0.16 ms
Input props
[
  "date" => DateTimeImmutable @1700480629 {#2041
    date: 2023-11-20 12:43:49.0 +01:00
  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateComponent {#20178
  +date: DateTimeImmutable @1700480629 {#2041
    date: 2023-11-20 12:43:49.0 +01:00
  }
}
date_edited App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent 18.0 MiB 0.09 ms
Input props
[
  "createdAt" => DateTimeImmutable @1700480629 {#2041
    date: 2023-11-20 12:43:49.0 +01:00
  }
  "editedAt" => null
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent {#20232
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700480629 {#2041
    date: 2023-11-20 12:43:49.0 +01:00
  }
  +editedAt: null
}
user_avatar App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent 18.0 MiB 0.17 ms
Input props
[
  "user" => App\Entity\User {#259
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +username: "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1727573233 {#267
      date: 2024-09-29 03:27:13.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
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    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
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    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
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    +showProfileFollowings: true
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    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: false
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
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    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#231 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#161 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#134 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#104 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#77 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#92 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1816 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1851 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1868 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1594 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1602 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1768 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1862 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1836 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1846 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1831 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2410 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1955 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2399 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1911 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1914 …}
    +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1884 …}
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    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1950 …}
    +apId: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
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    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://feddit.nl/inbox"
    +apDomain: "feddit.nl"
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    +apDiscoverable: true
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    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1727039733 {#272
      date: 2024-09-22 23:15:33.0 +02:00
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    +apDeletedAt: null
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    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687169920 {#269
      date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  "width" => 40
  "height" => 40
  "asLink" => true
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent {#20286
  +width: 40
  +height: 40
  +user: App\Entity\User {#259
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
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    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1727573233 {#267
      date: 2024-09-29 03:27:13.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
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    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#231 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#161 …}
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    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#77 …}
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    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1846 …}
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    -totpSecret: null
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    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1950 …}
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687169920 {#269
      date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  +asLink: true
}
vote App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent 18.0 MiB 0.42 ms
Input props
[
  "subject" => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2104
    +user: App\Entity\User {#259
      +avatar: null
      +cover: null
      +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
      +username: "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
      +roles: []
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      +lastActive: DateTime @1727573233 {#267
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      }
      +markedForDeletionAt: null
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      +isBot: false
      +spamProtection: true
      +customCss: null
      +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
      +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
      +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
      +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#231 …}
      +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
      +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#161 …}
      +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#134 …}
      +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#104 …}
      +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#77 …}
      +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#92 …}
      +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1816 …}
      +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1851 …}
      +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1868 …}
      +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1594 …}
      +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1602 …}
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      +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1862 …}
      +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1836 …}
      +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1846 …}
      +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1831 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2410 …}
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      -totpSecret: null
      -totpBackupCodes: []
      -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1950 …}
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      +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1727039733 {#272
        date: 2024-09-22 23:15:33.0 +02:00
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      +apDeletedAt: null
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      +visibility: "visible             "
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687169920 {#269
        date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
      }
    }
    +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2048
      +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2908
        +avatar: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#10308 …}
        +cover: null
        +email: "petsoi@discuss.tchncs.de"
        +username: "@petsoi@discuss.tchncs.de"
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          date: 2024-09-23 00:19:08.0 +02:00
        }
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          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
          - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
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          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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          +body: "Because if I install bluetooth it’s because I have some bluetooth devices I want to use?.."
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            Out of curiosity, what’s the point of installing Bluetooth but keeping it disabled?\n
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          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
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            Out of curiosity, what’s the point of installing Bluetooth but keeping it disabled?\n
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            I imagine the opposite would be the default most people wanted (enable it by default and let power users with a bizarre use case disable it manually).
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boost App\Twig\Components\BoostComponent 18.0 MiB 0.79 ms
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          \n
          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
          - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
          \n
          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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          +body: "Because if I install bluetooth it’s because I have some bluetooth devices I want to use?.."
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            Out of curiosity, what’s the point of installing Bluetooth but keeping it disabled?\n
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          \n
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          \n
          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
          - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
          \n
          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
          """
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          +body: "Because if I install bluetooth it’s because I have some bluetooth devices I want to use?.."
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        3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2117
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            Out of curiosity, what’s the point of installing Bluetooth but keeping it disabled?\n
            \n
            I imagine the opposite would be the default most people wanted (enable it by default and let power users with a bizarre use case disable it manually).
            """
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entry_comment App\Twig\Components\EntryCommentComponent 18.0 MiB 10.77 ms
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          Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).\n
          \n
          Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.\n
          \n
          ### Rules\n
          \n
          - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
          - No misinformation\n
          - No NSFW content\n
          - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
          \n
          ### Related Communities\n
          \n
          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
          - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
          \n
          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
          """
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          +body: "Because if I install bluetooth it’s because I have some bluetooth devices I want to use?.."
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          +body: """
            Out of curiosity, what’s the point of installing Bluetooth but keeping it disabled?\n
            \n
            I imagine the opposite would be the default most people wanted (enable it by default and let power users with a bizarre use case disable it manually).
            """
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          \n
          ### Rules\n
          \n
          - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
          - No misinformation\n
          - No NSFW content\n
          - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
          \n
          ### Related Communities\n
          \n
          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
          - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
          \n
          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
          """
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      +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3077 …}
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            Out of curiosity, what’s the point of installing Bluetooth but keeping it disabled?\n
            \n
            I imagine the opposite would be the default most people wanted (enable it by default and let power users with a bizarre use case disable it manually).
            """
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user_inline App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent 18.0 MiB 0.18 ms
Input props
[
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[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent {#20708
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date App\Twig\Components\DateComponent 18.0 MiB 0.14 ms
Input props
[
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    date: 2023-11-20 12:42:55.0 +01:00
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]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateComponent {#20764
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}
date_edited App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent 18.0 MiB 0.09 ms
Input props
[
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    date: 2023-11-20 12:42:55.0 +01:00
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]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent {#20818
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}
user_avatar App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent 18.0 MiB 0.13 ms
Input props
[
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    +customCss: null
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    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
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  "width" => 40
  "height" => 40
  "asLink" => true
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent {#20872
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  +height: 40
  +user: App\Entity\User {#259
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
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    +markedForDeletionAt: null
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    +apDeletedAt: null
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      date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  +asLink: true
}
vote App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent 18.0 MiB 0.50 ms
Input props
[
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      +avatar: null
      +cover: null
      +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
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      +markedForDeletionAt: null
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      +customCss: null
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      +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
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      +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
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    +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2048
      +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2908
        +avatar: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#10308 …}
        +cover: null
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        +markedForDeletionAt: null
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        +__isInitialized__: true
         …2
      }
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585
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        +description: """
          From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
          \n
          Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).\n
          \n
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          \n
          ### Rules\n
          \n
          - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
          - No misinformation\n
          - No NSFW content\n
          - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
          \n
          ### Related Communities\n
          \n
          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
          - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
          \n
          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
          """
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         …2
      }
      +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3023 …}
      +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3077 …}
      +slug: "Enabling-Bluetooth-on-Arch-Linux"
      +title: "Enabling Bluetooth on Arch Linux"
      +url: "https://itsfoss.com/bluetooth-arch-linux/"
      +body: null
      +type: "link"
      +lang: "en"
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        date: 2023-11-21 00:42:52.0 +01:00
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      +ip: null
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      +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3079 …}
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      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3087 …}
      +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3089 …}
      +children: [
        4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2252
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          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2048 …2}
          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …2}
          +image: null
          +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2192 …}
          +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2100 …}
          +body: "Because if I install bluetooth it’s because I have some bluetooth devices I want to use?.."
          +lang: "en"
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            "@Synthead@lemmy.world"
            "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
            "@sederx@programming.dev"
          ]
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          -id: 143369
          -bodyTs: "'bluetooth':5,12 'devic':13 'instal':4 'use':17 'want':15"
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          +"title": 143369
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        3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2117
          +user: App\Entity\User {#259}
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          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …2}
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          +body: """
            Out of curiosity, what’s the point of installing Bluetooth but keeping it disabled?\n
            \n
            I imagine the opposite would be the default most people wanted (enable it by default and let power users with a bizarre use case disable it manually).
            """
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            "@pastermil@sh.itjust.works"
            "@Jumuta@sh.itjust.works"
          ]
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          +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2123 …}
          +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2116 …}
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]
Attributes
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          \n
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          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
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            Out of curiosity, what’s the point of installing Bluetooth but keeping it disabled?\n
            \n
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boost App\Twig\Components\BoostComponent 18.0 MiB 0.74 ms
Input props
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            Out of curiosity, what’s the point of installing Bluetooth but keeping it disabled?\n
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            Out of curiosity, what’s the point of installing Bluetooth but keeping it disabled?\n
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entry_comment App\Twig\Components\EntryCommentComponent 18.0 MiB 15.43 ms
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          +body: "Because if I install bluetooth it’s because I have some bluetooth devices I want to use?.."
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            Out of curiosity, what’s the point of installing Bluetooth but keeping it disabled?\n
            \n
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            """
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      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +ranking: 1700379184
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://discuss.tchncs.de/post/6470707"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700292784 {#3061
        date: 2023-11-18 08:33:04.0 +01:00
      }
      +__isInitialized__: true
       …2
    }
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …2}
    +image: null
    +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2139 …}
    +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2100 …}
    +body: "So, like, you have to manually enable every service you install?"
    +lang: "en"
    +isAdult: false
    +favouriteCount: 1
    +score: 0
    +lastActive: DateTime @1700488468 {#2127
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    }
    +ip: null
    +tags: null
    +mentions: [
      "@petsoi@discuss.tchncs.de"
      "@Synthead@lemmy.world"
      "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    ]
    +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2215 …}
    +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2198 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2227 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2214 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2225 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2231 …}
    -id: 142818
    -bodyTs: "'enabl':7 'everi':8 'instal':11 'like':2 'manual':6 'servic':9"
    +ranking: 0
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700488468 {#2126
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    }
    +"title": 142818
  }
  +showMagazineName: false
  +showEntryTitle: false
  +showNested: false
  +level: 1
  +canSeeTrash: false
  +dateAsUrl: true
  -requestStack: Symfony\Component\HttpFoundation\RequestStack {#1328 …}
  -authorizationChecker: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\AuthorizationChecker {#931 …}
}
user_inline App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent 18.0 MiB 0.18 ms
Input props
[
  "user" => App\Entity\User {#259
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +username: "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1727573233 {#267
      date: 2024-09-29 03:27:13.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
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    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: true
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: false
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
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    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#231 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#161 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#134 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#104 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#77 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#92 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1816 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1851 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1868 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1594 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1602 …}
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    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1862 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1836 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1846 …}
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    -totpSecret: null
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    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1950 …}
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    +privateKey: null
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    +apDeletedAt: null
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687169920 {#269
      date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
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  "showAvatar" => false
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent {#21304
  +user: App\Entity\User {#259
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +username: "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1727573233 {#267
      date: 2024-09-29 03:27:13.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
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    +featuredMagazines: null
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    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
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    +addMentionsPosts: true
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    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#231 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#161 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#134 …}
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    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#77 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#92 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1816 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1851 …}
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    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1836 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1846 …}
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687169920 {#269
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}
date App\Twig\Components\DateComponent 18.0 MiB 0.16 ms
Input props
[
  "date" => DateTimeImmutable @1700488468 {#2126
    date: 2023-11-20 14:54:28.0 +01:00
  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateComponent {#21360
  +date: DateTimeImmutable @1700488468 {#2126
    date: 2023-11-20 14:54:28.0 +01:00
  }
}
date_edited App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent 18.0 MiB 0.10 ms
Input props
[
  "createdAt" => DateTimeImmutable @1700488468 {#2126
    date: 2023-11-20 14:54:28.0 +01:00
  }
  "editedAt" => null
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent {#21414
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700488468 {#2126
    date: 2023-11-20 14:54:28.0 +01:00
  }
  +editedAt: null
}
user_avatar App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent 18.0 MiB 0.28 ms
Input props
[
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    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +username: "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1727573233 {#267
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    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
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    +showSubscribedUsers: true
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    +addMentionsPosts: true
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    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
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    +apDeletedAt: null
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      date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  "width" => 40
  "height" => 40
  "asLink" => true
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent {#21468
  +width: 40
  +height: 40
  +user: App\Entity\User {#259
    +avatar: null
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    +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
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    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1727573233 {#267
      date: 2024-09-29 03:27:13.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
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    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
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    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687169920 {#269
      date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  +asLink: true
}
vote App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent 18.0 MiB 0.43 ms
Input props
[
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    +user: App\Entity\User {#259
      +avatar: null
      +cover: null
      +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
      +username: "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
      +roles: []
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      +homepage: "front"
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      +lastActive: DateTime @1727573233 {#267
        date: 2024-09-29 03:27:13.0 +02:00
      }
      +markedForDeletionAt: null
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      +isBot: false
      +spamProtection: true
      +customCss: null
      +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
      +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
      +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
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      +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
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      +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#134 …}
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      +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1816 …}
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      +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1846 …}
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      -totpSecret: null
      -totpBackupCodes: []
      -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1950 …}
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        date: 2024-09-22 23:15:33.0 +02:00
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      +apDeletedAt: null
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      +visibility: "visible             "
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687169920 {#269
        date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
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          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
          \n
          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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          +body: "Because if I install bluetooth it’s because I have some bluetooth devices I want to use?.."
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            Out of curiosity, what’s the point of installing Bluetooth but keeping it disabled?\n
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          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
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            Out of curiosity, what’s the point of installing Bluetooth but keeping it disabled?\n
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            I imagine the opposite would be the default most people wanted (enable it by default and let power users with a bizarre use case disable it manually).
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boost App\Twig\Components\BoostComponent 18.0 MiB 0.71 ms
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          \n
          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
          - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
          \n
          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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          +body: "Because if I install bluetooth it’s because I have some bluetooth devices I want to use?.."
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            Out of curiosity, what’s the point of installing Bluetooth but keeping it disabled?\n
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          \n
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          \n
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          \n
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          \n
          - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
          - No misinformation\n
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          - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
          \n
          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
          """
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      }
      +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3023 …}
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      +slug: "Enabling-Bluetooth-on-Arch-Linux"
      +title: "Enabling Bluetooth on Arch Linux"
      +url: "https://itsfoss.com/bluetooth-arch-linux/"
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      +ip: null
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      +children: [
        4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2252
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          +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2192 …}
          +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2100 …}
          +body: "Because if I install bluetooth it’s because I have some bluetooth devices I want to use?.."
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        3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2117
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          +body: """
            Out of curiosity, what’s the point of installing Bluetooth but keeping it disabled?\n
            \n
            I imagine the opposite would be the default most people wanted (enable it by default and let power users with a bizarre use case disable it manually).
            """
          +lang: "en"
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        1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2104
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        2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2049
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          +body: "What on Earth for. I don’t think I’ve used it more than a couple of times over the last 5 years, and that was for arcane stuff like enabling `rc.local` (which is something every user should probably *not* know about…)"
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      -id: 14090
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       …2
    }
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    +body: "So, like, you have to manually enable every service you install?"
    +lang: "en"
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    +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2215 …}
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  -cache: Symfony\Component\Cache\Adapter\TraceableTagAwareAdapter {#600 …}
}
entry App\Twig\Components\EntryComponent 20.0 MiB 9.94 ms
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        \n
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        \n
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        \n
        ### Rules\n
        \n
        - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
        - No misinformation\n
        - No NSFW content\n
        - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
        \n
        ### Related Communities\n
        \n
        - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
        - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
        - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
        - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
        \n
        Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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Component
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user_inline App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent 18.0 MiB 0.17 ms
Input props
[
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[]
Component
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date App\Twig\Components\DateComponent 18.0 MiB 0.17 ms
Input props
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]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateComponent {#21634
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date_edited App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent 18.0 MiB 0.15 ms
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[
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Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent {#21688
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magazine_inline App\Twig\Components\MagazineInlineComponent 18.0 MiB 0.28 ms
Input props
[
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[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\MagazineInlineComponent {#21742
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vote App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent 18.0 MiB 0.56 ms
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[
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        - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
        - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
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Component
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entry_comment App\Twig\Components\EntryCommentComponent 20.0 MiB 7.77 ms
Input props
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          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
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      ]
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  "showEntryTitle" => false
  "dateAsUrl" => true
  "showMagazineName" => false
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\EntryCommentComponent {#22115
  +comment: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2219
    +user: App\Entity\User {#259
      +avatar: null
      +cover: null
      +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
      +username: "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
      +roles: []
      +followersCount: 0
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      +lastActive: DateTime @1727573233 {#267
        date: 2024-09-29 03:27:13.0 +02:00
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      +markedForDeletionAt: null
      +fields: null
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      +isDeleted: false
      +isBot: false
      +spamProtection: true
      +customCss: null
      +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
      +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
      +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
      +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#231 …}
      +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
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      +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#134 …}
      +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#104 …}
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      -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1950 …}
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      +privateKey: null
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      +apDeletedAt: null
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      +visibility: "visible             "
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687169920 {#269
        date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
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    }
    +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2217
      +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2908
        +avatar: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#10308 …}
        +cover: null
        +email: "petsoi@discuss.tchncs.de"
        +username: "@petsoi@discuss.tchncs.de"
        +roles: []
        +followersCount: 0
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        +lastActive: DateTime @1727043548 {#10305
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        }
        +markedForDeletionAt: null
        +fields: null
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        +customCss: null
        +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
        +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10309 …}
        +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10311 …}
        +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10313 …}
        +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10315 …}
        +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10317 …}
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        +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10343 …}
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        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10349 …}
        +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10351 …}
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        +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10355 …}
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        -totpSecret: null
        -totpBackupCodes: []
        -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10361 …}
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        +privateKey: null
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          date: 2024-03-22 13:46:15.0 +01:00
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        +apDeletedAt: null
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1698929637 {#10307
          date: 2023-11-02 13:53:57.0 +01:00
        }
        +__isInitialized__: true
         …2
      }
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585
        +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#4079 …}
        +name: "linux@lemmy.ml"
        +title: "linux"
        +description: """
          From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
          \n
          Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).\n
          \n
          Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.\n
          \n
          ### Rules\n
          \n
          - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
          - No misinformation\n
          - No NSFW content\n
          - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
          \n
          ### Related Communities\n
          \n
          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
          - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
          \n
          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
          """
        +rules: null
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        }
        +markedForDeletionAt: null
        +tags: null
        +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4080 …}
        +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4082 …}
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        +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4086 …}
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        -id: 73
        +apId: "linux@lemmy.ml"
        +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.ml/c/linux"
        +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.ml/c/linux"
        +apFollowersUrl: "https://lemmy.ml/c/linux/followers"
        +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.ml/inbox"
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        +apPreferredUsername: "linux"
        +apDiscoverable: true
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          date: 2024-09-29 03:31:31.538658 UTC (+00:00)
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          date: 2023-11-02 13:51:08.0 +01:00
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         …2
      }
      +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3044 …}
      +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3043 …}
      +slug: "Mozilla-Firefox-120-Is-Now-Available-for-Download-Here-s-What-s"
      +title: "Mozilla Firefox 120 Is Now Available for Download, Here's What's New"
      +url: "https://9to5linux.com/mozilla-firefox-120-is-now-available-for-download-heres-whats-new"
      +body: null
      +type: "link"
      +lang: "en"
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        date: 2023-11-21 18:30:22.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
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      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3051 …}
      +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3053 …}
      +children: [
        App\Entity\EntryComment {#2219}
      ]
      -id: 14991
      -titleTs: "'120':3 'avail':6 'download':8 'firefox':2 'mozilla':1 'new':13"
      -bodyTs: null
      +cross: false
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      }
      +__isInitialized__: true
       …2
    }
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …2}
    +image: null
    +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2196 …}
    +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2199 …}
    +body: "I *think* (and hope) tha the logical conclusion of the DNT lawsuit v LinkedIn will be that DNT will be deemed necessary and sufficient, and that this setting will replace all the cookie banners. But even if that comes to pass it will be years before all the banners will be gone."
    +lang: "en"
    +isAdult: false
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    +score: 0
    +lastActive: DateTime @1700555300 {#2222
      date: 2023-11-21 09:28:20.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
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    +mentions: [
      "@petsoi@discuss.tchncs.de"
      "@mintycactus@lemmy.world"
      "@Mon0@lemmy.world"
    ]
    +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2194 …}
    +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2193 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2205 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2202 …}
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    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2207 …}
    -id: 145889
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    +ranking: 0
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    +"title": 145889
  }
  +showMagazineName: false
  +showEntryTitle: false
  +showNested: false
  +level: 1
  +canSeeTrash: false
  +dateAsUrl: true
  -requestStack: Symfony\Component\HttpFoundation\RequestStack {#1328 …}
  -authorizationChecker: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\AuthorizationChecker {#931 …}
}
user_inline App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent 20.0 MiB 0.21 ms
Input props
[
  "user" => App\Entity\User {#259
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +username: "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1727573233 {#267
      date: 2024-09-29 03:27:13.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
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    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
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    +showProfileFollowings: true
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    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
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    +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
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    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#231 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#161 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#134 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#104 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#77 …}
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    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1816 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1851 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1868 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1594 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1602 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1768 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1862 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1836 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1846 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1831 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2410 …}
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    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1950 …}
    +apId: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
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    +apDeletedAt: null
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      date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
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  "showAvatar" => false
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent {#22160
  +user: App\Entity\User {#259
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +username: "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1727573233 {#267
      date: 2024-09-29 03:27:13.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: true
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    +markNewComments: false
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    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
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    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: false
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
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    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#231 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#161 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#134 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#104 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#77 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#92 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1816 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1851 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1868 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1594 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1602 …}
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    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1846 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1831 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2410 …}
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    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1950 …}
    +apId: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +apProfileId: "https://feddit.nl/u/lemmyvore"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://feddit.nl/u/lemmyvore"
    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://feddit.nl/inbox"
    +apDomain: "feddit.nl"
    +apPreferredUsername: "lemmyvore"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1727039733 {#272
      date: 2024-09-22 23:15:33.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687169920 {#269
      date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  +showAvatar: false
}
date App\Twig\Components\DateComponent 20.0 MiB 0.22 ms
Input props
[
  "date" => DateTimeImmutable @1700555300 {#2221
    date: 2023-11-21 09:28:20.0 +01:00
  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateComponent {#22216
  +date: DateTimeImmutable @1700555300 {#2221
    date: 2023-11-21 09:28:20.0 +01:00
  }
}
date_edited App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent 20.0 MiB 0.13 ms
Input props
[
  "createdAt" => DateTimeImmutable @1700555300 {#2221
    date: 2023-11-21 09:28:20.0 +01:00
  }
  "editedAt" => null
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent {#22270
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700555300 {#2221
    date: 2023-11-21 09:28:20.0 +01:00
  }
  +editedAt: null
}
user_avatar App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent 20.0 MiB 0.43 ms
Input props
[
  "user" => App\Entity\User {#259
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +username: "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1727573233 {#267
      date: 2024-09-29 03:27:13.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
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    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
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    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
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    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
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    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
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    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
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    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#231 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#161 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#134 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#104 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#77 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#92 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1816 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1851 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1868 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1594 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1602 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1768 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1862 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1836 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1846 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1831 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2410 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1955 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2399 …}
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    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1914 …}
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    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1950 …}
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    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://feddit.nl/inbox"
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    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1727039733 {#272
      date: 2024-09-22 23:15:33.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
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    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687169920 {#269
      date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  "width" => 40
  "height" => 40
  "asLink" => true
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent {#22324
  +width: 40
  +height: 40
  +user: App\Entity\User {#259
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +username: "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1727573233 {#267
      date: 2024-09-29 03:27:13.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: true
    +showProfileFollowings: true
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    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
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    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#231 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#161 …}
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    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#77 …}
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    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1816 …}
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    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1836 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1846 …}
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    -totpSecret: null
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    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1950 …}
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    +apDiscoverable: true
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    +privateKey: null
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    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1727039733 {#272
      date: 2024-09-22 23:15:33.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
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    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687169920 {#269
      date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  +asLink: true
}
vote App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent 20.0 MiB 0.54 ms
Input props
[
  "subject" => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2219
    +user: App\Entity\User {#259
      +avatar: null
      +cover: null
      +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
      +username: "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
      +roles: []
      +followersCount: 0
      +homepage: "front"
      +about: null
      +lastActive: DateTime @1727573233 {#267
        date: 2024-09-29 03:27:13.0 +02:00
      }
      +markedForDeletionAt: null
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      +addMentionsPosts: true
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      +isBot: false
      +spamProtection: true
      +customCss: null
      +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
      +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
      +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
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      +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
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      -totpSecret: null
      -totpBackupCodes: []
      -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1950 …}
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        date: 2024-09-22 23:15:33.0 +02:00
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      +apDeletedAt: null
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      +visibility: "visible             "
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687169920 {#269
        date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
      }
    }
    +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2217
      +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2908
        +avatar: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#10308 …}
        +cover: null
        +email: "petsoi@discuss.tchncs.de"
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        +markedForDeletionAt: null
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        +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10315 …}
        +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10317 …}
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        +privateKey: null
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        +apDeletedAt: null
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1698929637 {#10307
          date: 2023-11-02 13:53:57.0 +01:00
        }
        +__isInitialized__: true
         …2
      }
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585
        +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#4079 …}
        +name: "linux@lemmy.ml"
        +title: "linux"
        +description: """
          From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
          \n
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          \n
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          \n
          ### Rules\n
          \n
          - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
          - No misinformation\n
          - No NSFW content\n
          - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
          \n
          ### Related Communities\n
          \n
          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
          - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
          \n
          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
          """
        +rules: null
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          date: 2024-09-29 03:21:04.643949 UTC (+00:00)
        }
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        -id: 73
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          date: 2024-09-29 03:31:31.538658 UTC (+00:00)
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        +apDeletedAt: null
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          date: 2023-11-02 13:51:08.0 +01:00
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        +__isInitialized__: true
         …2
      }
      +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3044 …}
      +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3043 …}
      +slug: "Mozilla-Firefox-120-Is-Now-Available-for-Download-Here-s-What-s"
      +title: "Mozilla Firefox 120 Is Now Available for Download, Here's What's New"
      +url: "https://9to5linux.com/mozilla-firefox-120-is-now-available-for-download-heres-whats-new"
      +body: null
      +type: "link"
      +lang: "en"
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        date: 2023-11-21 18:30:22.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +adaAmount: 0
      +tags: null
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      +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3042 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3049 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3045 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3048 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3051 …}
      +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3053 …}
      +children: [
        App\Entity\EntryComment {#2219}
      ]
      -id: 14991
      -titleTs: "'120':3 'avail':6 'download':8 'firefox':2 'mozilla':1 'new':13"
      -bodyTs: null
      +cross: false
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        date: 2023-11-21 06:58:07.0 +01:00
      }
      +__isInitialized__: true
       …2
    }
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …2}
    +image: null
    +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2196 …}
    +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2199 …}
    +body: "I *think* (and hope) tha the logical conclusion of the DNT lawsuit v LinkedIn will be that DNT will be deemed necessary and sufficient, and that this setting will replace all the cookie banners. But even if that comes to pass it will be years before all the banners will be gone."
    +lang: "en"
    +isAdult: false
    +favouriteCount: 10
    +score: 0
    +lastActive: DateTime @1700555300 {#2222
      date: 2023-11-21 09:28:20.0 +01:00
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    +ip: null
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    +mentions: [
      "@petsoi@discuss.tchncs.de"
      "@mintycactus@lemmy.world"
      "@Mon0@lemmy.world"
    ]
    +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2194 …}
    +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2193 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2205 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2202 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2210 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2207 …}
    -id: 145889
    -bodyTs: "'banner':34,49 'come':39 'conclus':8 'cooki':33 'deem':21 'dnt':11,18 'even':36 'gone':52 'hope':4 'lawsuit':12 'linkedin':14 'logic':7 'necessari':22 'pass':41 'replac':30 'set':28 'suffici':24 'tha':5 'think':2 'v':13 'year':45"
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      date: 2023-11-21 09:28:20.0 +01:00
    }
    +"title": 145889
  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent {#22399
  +subject: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2219
    +user: App\Entity\User {#259
      +avatar: null
      +cover: null
      +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
      +username: "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
      +roles: []
      +followersCount: 0
      +homepage: "front"
      +about: null
      +lastActive: DateTime @1727573233 {#267
        date: 2024-09-29 03:27:13.0 +02:00
      }
      +markedForDeletionAt: null
      +fields: null
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      +oauthGoogleId: null
      +oauthFacebookId: null
      +oauthKeycloakId: null
      +hideAdult: true
      +showSubscribedUsers: true
      +showSubscribedMagazines: true
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      +markNewComments: false
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      +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
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      +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
      +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: false
      +addMentionsEntries: false
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      +isBanned: false
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      +isDeleted: false
      +isBot: false
      +spamProtection: true
      +customCss: null
      +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
      +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
      +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
      +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#231 …}
      +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
      +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#161 …}
      +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#134 …}
      +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#104 …}
      +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#77 …}
      +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#92 …}
      +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1816 …}
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      +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1594 …}
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      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2410 …}
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      +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1914 …}
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      -totpSecret: null
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      -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1950 …}
      +apId: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
      +apProfileId: "https://feddit.nl/u/lemmyvore"
      +apPublicUrl: "https://feddit.nl/u/lemmyvore"
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      +apInboxUrl: "https://feddit.nl/inbox"
      +apDomain: "feddit.nl"
      +apPreferredUsername: "lemmyvore"
      +apDiscoverable: true
      +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
      +privateKey: null
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      +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1727039733 {#272
        date: 2024-09-22 23:15:33.0 +02:00
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      +apDeletedAt: null
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      +visibility: "visible             "
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687169920 {#269
        date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
      }
    }
    +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2217
      +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2908
        +avatar: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#10308 …}
        +cover: null
        +email: "petsoi@discuss.tchncs.de"
        +username: "@petsoi@discuss.tchncs.de"
        +roles: []
        +followersCount: 0
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        }
        +markedForDeletionAt: null
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        +markNewComments: false
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        +notifyOnNewEntryReply: true
        +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: true
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        +notifyOnNewPostReply: true
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        +isDeleted: false
        +isBot: false
        +spamProtection: true
        +customCss: null
        +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
        +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10309 …}
        +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10311 …}
        +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10313 …}
        +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10315 …}
        +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10317 …}
        +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10319 …}
        +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10321 …}
        +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10323 …}
        +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10325 …}
        +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10327 …}
        +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10329 …}
        +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10331 …}
        +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10333 …}
        +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10335 …}
        +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10337 …}
        +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10339 …}
        +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10341 …}
        +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10343 …}
        +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10345 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10347 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10349 …}
        +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10351 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10353 …}
        +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10355 …}
        +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10357 …}
        +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10359 …}
        -id: 69851
        -password: "$2y$13$Z8/MeQWXFdPKxuY43jz2IO84WeCyQLNxrKarAQCQhYTYDPIhxN7vm"
        -totpSecret: null
        -totpBackupCodes: []
        -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10361 …}
        +apId: "petsoi@discuss.tchncs.de"
        +apProfileId: "https://discuss.tchncs.de/u/petsoi"
        +apPublicUrl: "https://discuss.tchncs.de/u/petsoi"
        +apFollowersUrl: null
        +apInboxUrl: "https://discuss.tchncs.de/inbox"
        +apDomain: "discuss.tchncs.de"
        +apPreferredUsername: "petsoi"
        +apDiscoverable: true
        +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
        +privateKey: null
        +publicKey: null
        +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1711111575 {#10306
          date: 2024-03-22 13:46:15.0 +01:00
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        +apDeletedAt: null
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1698929637 {#10307
          date: 2023-11-02 13:53:57.0 +01:00
        }
        +__isInitialized__: true
         …2
      }
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585
        +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#4079 …}
        +name: "linux@lemmy.ml"
        +title: "linux"
        +description: """
          From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
          \n
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          \n
          Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.\n
          \n
          ### Rules\n
          \n
          - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
          - No misinformation\n
          - No NSFW content\n
          - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
          \n
          ### Related Communities\n
          \n
          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
          - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
          \n
          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
          """
        +rules: null
        +subscriptionsCount: 1
        +entryCount: 1304
        +entryCommentCount: 26827
        +postCount: 5
        +postCommentCount: 76
        +isAdult: false
        +customCss: null
        +lastActive: DateTime @1727580064 {#4076
          date: 2024-09-29 03:21:04.643949 UTC (+00:00)
        }
        +markedForDeletionAt: null
        +tags: null
        +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4080 …}
        +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4082 …}
        +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4084 …}
        +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4086 …}
        +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4088 …}
        +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4090 …}
        +bans: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4096 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4104 …}
        +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4117 …}
        +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4127 …}
        +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4109 …}
        +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4133 …}
        -id: 73
        +apId: "linux@lemmy.ml"
        +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.ml/c/linux"
        +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.ml/c/linux"
        +apFollowersUrl: "https://lemmy.ml/c/linux/followers"
        +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.ml/inbox"
        +apDomain: "lemmy.ml"
        +apPreferredUsername: "linux"
        +apDiscoverable: true
        +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
        +privateKey: null
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        +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1727580691 {#4077
          date: 2024-09-29 03:31:31.538658 UTC (+00:00)
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        +apDeletedAt: null
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          date: 2023-11-02 13:51:08.0 +01:00
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        +__isInitialized__: true
         …2
      }
      +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3044 …}
      +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3043 …}
      +slug: "Mozilla-Firefox-120-Is-Now-Available-for-Download-Here-s-What-s"
      +title: "Mozilla Firefox 120 Is Now Available for Download, Here's What's New"
      +url: "https://9to5linux.com/mozilla-firefox-120-is-now-available-for-download-heres-whats-new"
      +body: null
      +type: "link"
      +lang: "en"
      +isOc: false
      +hasEmbed: false
      +commentCount: 25
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        date: 2023-11-21 18:30:22.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +adaAmount: 0
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      +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3042 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3049 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3045 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3048 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3051 …}
      +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3053 …}
      +children: [
        App\Entity\EntryComment {#2219}
      ]
      -id: 14991
      -titleTs: "'120':3 'avail':6 'download':8 'firefox':2 'mozilla':1 'new':13"
      -bodyTs: null
      +cross: false
      +upVotes: 0
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      +ranking: 1700632687
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://discuss.tchncs.de/post/6618177"
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        date: 2023-11-21 06:58:07.0 +01:00
      }
      +__isInitialized__: true
       …2
    }
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …2}
    +image: null
    +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2196 …}
    +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2199 …}
    +body: "I *think* (and hope) tha the logical conclusion of the DNT lawsuit v LinkedIn will be that DNT will be deemed necessary and sufficient, and that this setting will replace all the cookie banners. But even if that comes to pass it will be years before all the banners will be gone."
    +lang: "en"
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      date: 2023-11-21 09:28:20.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
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    +mentions: [
      "@petsoi@discuss.tchncs.de"
      "@mintycactus@lemmy.world"
      "@Mon0@lemmy.world"
    ]
    +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2194 …}
    +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2193 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2205 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2202 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2210 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2207 …}
    -id: 145889
    -bodyTs: "'banner':34,49 'come':39 'conclus':8 'cooki':33 'deem':21 'dnt':11,18 'even':36 'gone':52 'hope':4 'lawsuit':12 'linkedin':14 'logic':7 'necessari':22 'pass':41 'replac':30 'set':28 'suffici':24 'tha':5 'think':2 'v':13 'year':45"
    +ranking: 0
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    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +visibility: "visible             "
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    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700555300 {#2221
      date: 2023-11-21 09:28:20.0 +01:00
    }
    +"title": 145889
  }
  +formDest: "entry_comment"
  +showDownvote: true
  -cache: Symfony\Component\Cache\Adapter\TraceableTagAwareAdapter {#600 …}
}
boost App\Twig\Components\BoostComponent 20.0 MiB 1.21 ms
Input props
[
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    +user: App\Entity\User {#259
      +avatar: null
      +cover: null
      +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
      +username: "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
      +roles: []
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      +markedForDeletionAt: null
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      +spamProtection: true
      +customCss: null
      +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
      +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
      +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
      +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#231 …}
      +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
      +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#161 …}
      +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#134 …}
      +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#104 …}
      +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#77 …}
      +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#92 …}
      +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1816 …}
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      +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1594 …}
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      +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1846 …}
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      +apDeletedAt: null
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      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687169920 {#269
        date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
      }
    }
    +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2217
      +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2908
        +avatar: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#10308 …}
        +cover: null
        +email: "petsoi@discuss.tchncs.de"
        +username: "@petsoi@discuss.tchncs.de"
        +roles: []
        +followersCount: 0
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        +markedForDeletionAt: null
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        +customCss: null
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        +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#10309 …}
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          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
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    +body: "I *think* (and hope) tha the logical conclusion of the DNT lawsuit v LinkedIn will be that DNT will be deemed necessary and sufficient, and that this setting will replace all the cookie banners. But even if that comes to pass it will be years before all the banners will be gone."
    +lang: "en"
    +isAdult: false
    +favouriteCount: 10
    +score: 0
    +lastActive: DateTime @1700555300 {#2222
      date: 2023-11-21 09:28:20.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +tags: null
    +mentions: [
      "@petsoi@discuss.tchncs.de"
      "@mintycactus@lemmy.world"
      "@Mon0@lemmy.world"
    ]
    +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2194 …}
    +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2193 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2205 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2202 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2210 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2207 …}
    -id: 145889
    -bodyTs: "'banner':34,49 'come':39 'conclus':8 'cooki':33 'deem':21 'dnt':11,18 'even':36 'gone':52 'hope':4 'lawsuit':12 'linkedin':14 'logic':7 'necessari':22 'pass':41 'replac':30 'set':28 'suffici':24 'tha':5 'think':2 'v':13 'year':45"
    +ranking: 0
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    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://feddit.nl/comment/4753974"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700555300 {#2221
      date: 2023-11-21 09:28:20.0 +01:00
    }
    +"title": 145889
  }
  -cache: Symfony\Component\Cache\Adapter\TraceableTagAwareAdapter {#600 …}
}
entry App\Twig\Components\EntryComponent 20.0 MiB 7.34 ms
Input props
[
  "entry" => Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2389
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#3131
      +avatar: null
      +cover: null
      +email: "gunpachi@lemmings.world"
      +username: "@gunpachi@lemmings.world"
      +roles: []
      +followersCount: 0
      +homepage: "front"
      +about: null
      +lastActive: DateTime @1725934758 {#22815
        date: 2024-09-10 04:19:18.0 +02:00
      }
      +markedForDeletionAt: null
      +fields: null
      +oauthGithubId: null
      +oauthGoogleId: null
      +oauthFacebookId: null
      +oauthKeycloakId: null
      +hideAdult: true
      +showSubscribedUsers: true
      +showSubscribedMagazines: true
      +showSubscribedDomains: true
      +preferredLanguages: []
      +featuredMagazines: null
      +showProfileSubscriptions: false
      +showProfileFollowings: true
      +markNewComments: false
      +notifyOnNewEntry: false
      +notifyOnNewEntryReply: true
      +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: true
      +notifyOnNewPost: false
      +notifyOnNewPostReply: true
      +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: true
      +addMentionsEntries: false
      +addMentionsPosts: true
      +isBanned: false
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      +isDeleted: false
      +isBot: false
      +spamProtection: true
      +customCss: null
      +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
      +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22818 …}
      +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22820 …}
      +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22822 …}
      +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22824 …}
      +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22826 …}
      +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22828 …}
      +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22830 …}
      +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22832 …}
      +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22834 …}
      +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22836 …}
      +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22838 …}
      +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22840 …}
      +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22842 …}
      +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22844 …}
      +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22846 …}
      +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22848 …}
      +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22850 …}
      +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22852 …}
      +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22854 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22856 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22858 …}
      +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22860 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22862 …}
      +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22864 …}
      +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22866 …}
      +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22868 …}
      -id: 39634
      -password: "$2y$13$RofWE4f.irwOdnR3XgcOsOkAQDq7I3Psz9iehfYzgbBPKOCxLyEji"
      -totpSecret: null
      -totpBackupCodes: []
      -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22870 …}
      +apId: "gunpachi@lemmings.world"
      +apProfileId: "https://lemmings.world/u/gunpachi"
      +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmings.world/u/gunpachi"
      +apFollowersUrl: null
      +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmings.world/inbox"
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      +apPreferredUsername: "gunpachi"
      +apDiscoverable: true
      +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
      +privateKey: null
      +publicKey: null
      +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1727214202 {#22816
        date: 2024-09-24 23:43:22.0 +02:00
      }
      +apDeletedAt: null
      +apTimeoutAt: null
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1691557223 {#22817
        date: 2023-08-09 07:00:23.0 +02:00
      }
      +__isInitialized__: true
       …2
    }
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1548
      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#12690 …}
      +name: "piracy@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
      +title: "piracy"
      +description: """
        ##### ⚓ Community devoted to in-depth debate on topics concerning digital piracy, ethical problems, and legal advancements.\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        ### Rules • [Full Version](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
        \n
        **1**. Posts must be related to the discussion of digital piracy\n
        \n
        **2**. Don’t request invites, trade, sell, or self-promote\n
        \n
        **3**. Don’t request or link to specific pirated titles, including DMs\n
        \n
        **4**. Don’t submit low-quality posts, be entitled, or harass others\n
        \n
        **5**. Don’t post questions already answered. READ THE [WIKI](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        [![](https://a.imagem.app/oZoQ1v.png)](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
        ---------------------------------------------------------------------------\n
        \n
        ### Loot, Pillage, & Plunder\n
        \n
        - [📜 Megathread](https://rentry.co/megathread)\n
        - [🪶 FAQ](https://rentry.co/piracy-faq)\n
        - [🪶 ISP Complaints](https://rentry.co/piracy-isp-complaints)\n
        - [🪶 Rules](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        💰 Please help cover server costs.\n
        \n
        [![Ko-Fi](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/4a2f073a-3dd8-492a-942d-72bd929c9f1d.png)](https://ko-fi.com/dbzer0)[![Liberapay](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/eec4659d-39be-4fc9-bc9e-66a96285ea2c.png)](https://liberapay.com/db0/)\n
        \n
        ---
        """
      +rules: null
      +subscriptionsCount: 1
      +entryCount: 826
      +entryCommentCount: 19337
      +postCount: 7
      +postCommentCount: 149
      +isAdult: false
      +customCss: null
      +lastActive: DateTime @1727579107 {#12687
        date: 2024-09-29 03:05:07.944072 UTC (+00:00)
      }
      +markedForDeletionAt: null
      +tags: null
      +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12691 …}
      +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12693 …}
      +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12695 …}
      +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12697 …}
      +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12699 …}
      +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12701 …}
      +bans: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12703 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12705 …}
      +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12707 …}
      +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12709 …}
      +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12711 …}
      +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12713 …}
      -id: 51
      +apId: "piracy@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
      +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/piracy"
      +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/piracy"
      +apFollowersUrl: "https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/piracy/followers"
      +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/inbox"
      +apDomain: "lemmy.dbzer0.com"
      +apPreferredUsername: "piracy"
      +apDiscoverable: true
      +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
      +privateKey: null
      +publicKey: null
      +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1708751829 {#12688
        date: 2024-02-24 06:17:09.0 +01:00
      }
      +apDeletedAt: null
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      +visibility: "visible             "
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697197339 {#12689
        date: 2023-10-13 13:42:19.0 +02:00
      }
      +__isInitialized__: true
       …2
    }
    +image: null
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2956 …}
    +slug: "Has-anyone-had-any-luck-with-Dodi-repacks-on-Linux"
    +title: "Has anyone had any luck with Dodi repacks on Linux ?"
    +url: null
    +body: """
      So I downloaded Dodi’s Sekiro repack and installed it through bottles, but the game does not launch.\n
      \n
      Also tried adding the exe file to Heroic, gave me the same result as Bottles.\n
      \n
      On windows, I remember this exact repack working perfectly. So maybe they way I installed it in Linux is causing the issue ?
      """
    +type: "article"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: false
    +commentCount: 14
    +favouriteCount: 56
    +score: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +sticky: false
    +lastActive: DateTime @1700316823 {#3167
      date: 2023-11-18 15:13:43.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3172 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3175 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3177 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3179 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3181 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3183 …}
    +children: [
      App\Entity\EntryComment {#2391
        +user: App\Entity\User {#259
          +avatar: null
          +cover: null
          +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
          +username: "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
          +roles: []
          +followersCount: 0
          +homepage: "front"
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          +lastActive: DateTime @1727573233 {#267
            date: 2024-09-29 03:27:13.0 +02:00
          }
          +markedForDeletionAt: null
          +fields: null
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          +hideAdult: true
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          +showSubscribedMagazines: true
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          +markNewComments: false
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          +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
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          +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
          +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: false
          +addMentionsEntries: false
          +addMentionsPosts: true
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          +isDeleted: false
          +isBot: false
          +spamProtection: true
          +customCss: null
          +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
          +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
          +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
          +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#231 …}
          +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
          +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#161 …}
          +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#134 …}
          +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#104 …}
          +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#77 …}
          +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#92 …}
          +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1816 …}
          +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1851 …}
          +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1868 …}
          +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1594 …}
          +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1602 …}
          +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1768 …}
          +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1862 …}
          +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1836 …}
          +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1846 …}
          +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1831 …}
          +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2410 …}
          +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1955 …}
          +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2399 …}
          +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1911 …}
          +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1914 …}
          +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1884 …}
          +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1915 …}
          -id: 5129
          -password: "$2y$13$/vteljm8CiRSKlQjOelDZefgFTbMgXd9zTn7W2zbMetE/IgF5X85q"
          -totpSecret: null
          -totpBackupCodes: []
          -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1950 …}
          +apId: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
          +apProfileId: "https://feddit.nl/u/lemmyvore"
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          +apDiscoverable: true
          +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
          +privateKey: null
          +publicKey: null
          +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1727039733 {#272
            date: 2024-09-22 23:15:33.0 +02:00
          }
          +apDeletedAt: null
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          +visibility: "visible             "
          +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687169920 {#269
            date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
          }
        }
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2389 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1548 …2}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2369 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2369 …}
        +body: "What are the dependencies? I always have trouble figuring those out. It could be any obscure combination of stuff to install, with specific versions. Yeah bottles makes it easy to install them but what’s the use of you don’t know which."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1700289472 {#1407
          date: 2023-11-18 07:37:52.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@gunpachi@lemmings.world"
          "@plague_sapiens@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2387 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2394 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2393 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1381 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1402 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1385 …}
        -id: 136194
        -bodyTs: "'alway':6 'bottl':26 'combin':17 'could':13 'depend':4 'easi':29 'figur':9 'instal':21,31 'know':42 'make':27 'obscur':16 'specif':23 'stuff':19 'troubl':8 'use':37 'version':24 'yeah':25"
        +ranking: 0
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        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700289472 {#1883
          date: 2023-11-18 07:37:52.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 136194
      }
    ]
    -id: 13806
    -titleTs: "'anyon':2 'dodi':7 'linux':10 'luck':5 'repack':8"
    -bodyTs: "'ad':21 'also':19 'bottl':12,33 'caus':53 'dodi':4 'download':3 'exact':39 'exe':23 'file':24 'game':15 'gave':27 'heroic':26 'instal':9,48 'issu':55 'launch':18 'linux':51 'mayb':44 'perfect':42 'rememb':37 'repack':7,40 'result':31 'sekiro':6 'tri':20 'way':46 'window':35 'work':41"
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1700300958
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemmings.world/post/2910464"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700214558 {#3154
      date: 2023-11-17 10:49:18.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  "dateAsUrl" => true
]
Attributes
[
  "dateAsUrl" => true
]
Component
App\Twig\Components\EntryComponent {#22707
  -authorizationChecker: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\AuthorizationChecker {#931 …}
  -newCommentMarkerCount: App\Kbin\NewCommentMarker\NewCommentMarkerCount {#4024 …}
  -cache: Symfony\Component\Cache\Adapter\TraceableTagAwareAdapter {#600 …}
  -twig: Twig\Environment {#1252 …}
  -requestStack: Symfony\Component\HttpFoundation\RequestStack {#1328 …}
  -security: Symfony\Bundle\SecurityBundle\Security {#1101 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2389
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#3131
      +avatar: null
      +cover: null
      +email: "gunpachi@lemmings.world"
      +username: "@gunpachi@lemmings.world"
      +roles: []
      +followersCount: 0
      +homepage: "front"
      +about: null
      +lastActive: DateTime @1725934758 {#22815
        date: 2024-09-10 04:19:18.0 +02:00
      }
      +markedForDeletionAt: null
      +fields: null
      +oauthGithubId: null
      +oauthGoogleId: null
      +oauthFacebookId: null
      +oauthKeycloakId: null
      +hideAdult: true
      +showSubscribedUsers: true
      +showSubscribedMagazines: true
      +showSubscribedDomains: true
      +preferredLanguages: []
      +featuredMagazines: null
      +showProfileSubscriptions: false
      +showProfileFollowings: true
      +markNewComments: false
      +notifyOnNewEntry: false
      +notifyOnNewEntryReply: true
      +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: true
      +notifyOnNewPost: false
      +notifyOnNewPostReply: true
      +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: true
      +addMentionsEntries: false
      +addMentionsPosts: true
      +isBanned: false
      +isVerified: false
      +isDeleted: false
      +isBot: false
      +spamProtection: true
      +customCss: null
      +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
      +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22818 …}
      +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22820 …}
      +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22822 …}
      +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22824 …}
      +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22826 …}
      +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22828 …}
      +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22830 …}
      +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22832 …}
      +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22834 …}
      +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22836 …}
      +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22838 …}
      +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22840 …}
      +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22842 …}
      +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22844 …}
      +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22846 …}
      +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22848 …}
      +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22850 …}
      +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22852 …}
      +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22854 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22856 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22858 …}
      +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22860 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22862 …}
      +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22864 …}
      +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22866 …}
      +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22868 …}
      -id: 39634
      -password: "$2y$13$RofWE4f.irwOdnR3XgcOsOkAQDq7I3Psz9iehfYzgbBPKOCxLyEji"
      -totpSecret: null
      -totpBackupCodes: []
      -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22870 …}
      +apId: "gunpachi@lemmings.world"
      +apProfileId: "https://lemmings.world/u/gunpachi"
      +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmings.world/u/gunpachi"
      +apFollowersUrl: null
      +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmings.world/inbox"
      +apDomain: "lemmings.world"
      +apPreferredUsername: "gunpachi"
      +apDiscoverable: true
      +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
      +privateKey: null
      +publicKey: null
      +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1727214202 {#22816
        date: 2024-09-24 23:43:22.0 +02:00
      }
      +apDeletedAt: null
      +apTimeoutAt: null
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1691557223 {#22817
        date: 2023-08-09 07:00:23.0 +02:00
      }
      +__isInitialized__: true
       …2
    }
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1548
      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#12690 …}
      +name: "piracy@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
      +title: "piracy"
      +description: """
        ##### ⚓ Community devoted to in-depth debate on topics concerning digital piracy, ethical problems, and legal advancements.\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        ### Rules • [Full Version](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
        \n
        **1**. Posts must be related to the discussion of digital piracy\n
        \n
        **2**. Don’t request invites, trade, sell, or self-promote\n
        \n
        **3**. Don’t request or link to specific pirated titles, including DMs\n
        \n
        **4**. Don’t submit low-quality posts, be entitled, or harass others\n
        \n
        **5**. Don’t post questions already answered. READ THE [WIKI](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        [![](https://a.imagem.app/oZoQ1v.png)](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
        ---------------------------------------------------------------------------\n
        \n
        ### Loot, Pillage, & Plunder\n
        \n
        - [📜 Megathread](https://rentry.co/megathread)\n
        - [🪶 FAQ](https://rentry.co/piracy-faq)\n
        - [🪶 ISP Complaints](https://rentry.co/piracy-isp-complaints)\n
        - [🪶 Rules](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        💰 Please help cover server costs.\n
        \n
        [![Ko-Fi](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/4a2f073a-3dd8-492a-942d-72bd929c9f1d.png)](https://ko-fi.com/dbzer0)[![Liberapay](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/eec4659d-39be-4fc9-bc9e-66a96285ea2c.png)](https://liberapay.com/db0/)\n
        \n
        ---
        """
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      +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12691 …}
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      -id: 51
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      }
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      +__isInitialized__: true
       …2
    }
    +image: null
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2956 …}
    +slug: "Has-anyone-had-any-luck-with-Dodi-repacks-on-Linux"
    +title: "Has anyone had any luck with Dodi repacks on Linux ?"
    +url: null
    +body: """
      So I downloaded Dodi’s Sekiro repack and installed it through bottles, but the game does not launch.\n
      \n
      Also tried adding the exe file to Heroic, gave me the same result as Bottles.\n
      \n
      On windows, I remember this exact repack working perfectly. So maybe they way I installed it in Linux is causing the issue ?
      """
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    +ip: null
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    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3181 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3183 …}
    +children: [
      App\Entity\EntryComment {#2391
        +user: App\Entity\User {#259
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          +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
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            date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
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        }
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2389 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1548 …2}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2369 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2369 …}
        +body: "What are the dependencies? I always have trouble figuring those out. It could be any obscure combination of stuff to install, with specific versions. Yeah bottles makes it easy to install them but what’s the use of you don’t know which."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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        }
        +ip: null
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        +mentions: [
          "@gunpachi@lemmings.world"
          "@plague_sapiens@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2387 …}
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        -bodyTs: "'alway':6 'bottl':26 'combin':17 'could':13 'depend':4 'easi':29 'figur':9 'instal':21,31 'know':42 'make':27 'obscur':16 'specif':23 'stuff':19 'troubl':8 'use':37 'version':24 'yeah':25"
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      date: 2023-11-17 10:49:18.0 +01:00
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     …2
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  +isSingle: false
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}
user_inline App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent 20.0 MiB 0.59 ms
Input props
[
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    +cover: null
    +email: "gunpachi@lemmings.world"
    +username: "@gunpachi@lemmings.world"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1725934758 {#22815
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    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
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    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
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    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: true
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: true
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    +addMentionsEntries: false
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    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22818 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22820 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22822 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22824 …}
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      date: 2023-08-09 07:00:23.0 +02:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  "showAvatar" => false
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent {#22778
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    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "gunpachi@lemmings.world"
    +username: "@gunpachi@lemmings.world"
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    +followersCount: 0
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      date: 2024-09-10 04:19:18.0 +02:00
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    +markedForDeletionAt: null
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    +customCss: null
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    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22818 …}
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      date: 2023-08-09 07:00:23.0 +02:00
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}
date App\Twig\Components\DateComponent 20.0 MiB 0.16 ms
Input props
[
  "date" => DateTimeImmutable @1700214558 {#3154
    date: 2023-11-17 10:49:18.0 +01:00
  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateComponent {#22891
  +date: DateTimeImmutable @1700214558 {#3154
    date: 2023-11-17 10:49:18.0 +01:00
  }
}
date_edited App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent 20.0 MiB 0.11 ms
Input props
[
  "createdAt" => DateTimeImmutable @1700214558 {#3154
    date: 2023-11-17 10:49:18.0 +01:00
  }
  "editedAt" => null
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent {#22945
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700214558 {#3154
    date: 2023-11-17 10:49:18.0 +01:00
  }
  +editedAt: null
}
magazine_inline App\Twig\Components\MagazineInlineComponent 20.0 MiB 0.15 ms
Input props
[
  "magazine" => Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1548
    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#12690 …}
    +name: "piracy@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
    +title: "piracy"
    +description: """
      ##### ⚓ Community devoted to in-depth debate on topics concerning digital piracy, ethical problems, and legal advancements.\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      ### Rules • [Full Version](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
      \n
      **1**. Posts must be related to the discussion of digital piracy\n
      \n
      **2**. Don’t request invites, trade, sell, or self-promote\n
      \n
      **3**. Don’t request or link to specific pirated titles, including DMs\n
      \n
      **4**. Don’t submit low-quality posts, be entitled, or harass others\n
      \n
      **5**. Don’t post questions already answered. READ THE [WIKI](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      [![](https://a.imagem.app/oZoQ1v.png)](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
      ---------------------------------------------------------------------------\n
      \n
      ### Loot, Pillage, & Plunder\n
      \n
      - [📜 Megathread](https://rentry.co/megathread)\n
      - [🪶 FAQ](https://rentry.co/piracy-faq)\n
      - [🪶 ISP Complaints](https://rentry.co/piracy-isp-complaints)\n
      - [🪶 Rules](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      💰 Please help cover server costs.\n
      \n
      [![Ko-Fi](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/4a2f073a-3dd8-492a-942d-72bd929c9f1d.png)](https://ko-fi.com/dbzer0)[![Liberapay](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/eec4659d-39be-4fc9-bc9e-66a96285ea2c.png)](https://liberapay.com/db0/)\n
      \n
      ---
      """
    +rules: null
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    +entryCommentCount: 19337
    +postCount: 7
    +postCommentCount: 149
    +isAdult: false
    +customCss: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1727579107 {#12687
      date: 2024-09-29 03:05:07.944072 UTC (+00:00)
    }
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    +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12709 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12711 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12713 …}
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    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  "showAvatar" => false
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\MagazineInlineComponent {#22999
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    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#12690 …}
    +name: "piracy@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
    +title: "piracy"
    +description: """
      ##### ⚓ Community devoted to in-depth debate on topics concerning digital piracy, ethical problems, and legal advancements.\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      ### Rules • [Full Version](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
      \n
      **1**. Posts must be related to the discussion of digital piracy\n
      \n
      **2**. Don’t request invites, trade, sell, or self-promote\n
      \n
      **3**. Don’t request or link to specific pirated titles, including DMs\n
      \n
      **4**. Don’t submit low-quality posts, be entitled, or harass others\n
      \n
      **5**. Don’t post questions already answered. READ THE [WIKI](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      [![](https://a.imagem.app/oZoQ1v.png)](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
      ---------------------------------------------------------------------------\n
      \n
      ### Loot, Pillage, & Plunder\n
      \n
      - [📜 Megathread](https://rentry.co/megathread)\n
      - [🪶 FAQ](https://rentry.co/piracy-faq)\n
      - [🪶 ISP Complaints](https://rentry.co/piracy-isp-complaints)\n
      - [🪶 Rules](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      💰 Please help cover server costs.\n
      \n
      [![Ko-Fi](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/4a2f073a-3dd8-492a-942d-72bd929c9f1d.png)](https://ko-fi.com/dbzer0)[![Liberapay](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/eec4659d-39be-4fc9-bc9e-66a96285ea2c.png)](https://liberapay.com/db0/)\n
      \n
      ---
      """
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    +entryCommentCount: 19337
    +postCount: 7
    +postCommentCount: 149
    +isAdult: false
    +customCss: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1727579107 {#12687
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    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +tags: null
    +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12691 …}
    +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12693 …}
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    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1708751829 {#12688
      date: 2024-02-24 06:17:09.0 +01:00
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    +apDeletedAt: null
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697197339 {#12689
      date: 2023-10-13 13:42:19.0 +02:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +showTitle: true
  +fullName: false
  +stretchedLink: false
  +showAvatar: false
}
vote App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent 20.0 MiB 0.42 ms
Input props
[
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    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#3131
      +avatar: null
      +cover: null
      +email: "gunpachi@lemmings.world"
      +username: "@gunpachi@lemmings.world"
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      +markedForDeletionAt: null
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      +spamProtection: true
      +customCss: null
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      +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22820 …}
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      +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22824 …}
      +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22826 …}
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      +apDeletedAt: null
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        date: 2023-08-09 07:00:23.0 +02:00
      }
      +__isInitialized__: true
       …2
    }
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1548
      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#12690 …}
      +name: "piracy@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
      +title: "piracy"
      +description: """
        ##### ⚓ Community devoted to in-depth debate on topics concerning digital piracy, ethical problems, and legal advancements.\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        ### Rules • [Full Version](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
        \n
        **1**. Posts must be related to the discussion of digital piracy\n
        \n
        **2**. Don’t request invites, trade, sell, or self-promote\n
        \n
        **3**. Don’t request or link to specific pirated titles, including DMs\n
        \n
        **4**. Don’t submit low-quality posts, be entitled, or harass others\n
        \n
        **5**. Don’t post questions already answered. READ THE [WIKI](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        [![](https://a.imagem.app/oZoQ1v.png)](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
        ---------------------------------------------------------------------------\n
        \n
        ### Loot, Pillage, & Plunder\n
        \n
        - [📜 Megathread](https://rentry.co/megathread)\n
        - [🪶 FAQ](https://rentry.co/piracy-faq)\n
        - [🪶 ISP Complaints](https://rentry.co/piracy-isp-complaints)\n
        - [🪶 Rules](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        💰 Please help cover server costs.\n
        \n
        [![Ko-Fi](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/4a2f073a-3dd8-492a-942d-72bd929c9f1d.png)](https://ko-fi.com/dbzer0)[![Liberapay](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/eec4659d-39be-4fc9-bc9e-66a96285ea2c.png)](https://liberapay.com/db0/)\n
        \n
        ---
        """
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      +lastActive: DateTime @1727579107 {#12687
        date: 2024-09-29 03:05:07.944072 UTC (+00:00)
      }
      +markedForDeletionAt: null
      +tags: null
      +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12691 …}
      +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12693 …}
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      -id: 51
      +apId: "piracy@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
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      +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
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      +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1708751829 {#12688
        date: 2024-02-24 06:17:09.0 +01:00
      }
      +apDeletedAt: null
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      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697197339 {#12689
        date: 2023-10-13 13:42:19.0 +02:00
      }
      +__isInitialized__: true
       …2
    }
    +image: null
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2956 …}
    +slug: "Has-anyone-had-any-luck-with-Dodi-repacks-on-Linux"
    +title: "Has anyone had any luck with Dodi repacks on Linux ?"
    +url: null
    +body: """
      So I downloaded Dodi’s Sekiro repack and installed it through bottles, but the game does not launch.\n
      \n
      Also tried adding the exe file to Heroic, gave me the same result as Bottles.\n
      \n
      On windows, I remember this exact repack working perfectly. So maybe they way I installed it in Linux is causing the issue ?
      """
    +type: "article"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: false
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    +lastActive: DateTime @1700316823 {#3167
      date: 2023-11-18 15:13:43.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
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    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3172 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3175 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3177 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3179 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3181 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3183 …}
    +children: [
      App\Entity\EntryComment {#2391
        +user: App\Entity\User {#259
          +avatar: null
          +cover: null
          +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
          +username: "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
          +roles: []
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          }
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          +isBot: false
          +spamProtection: true
          +customCss: null
          +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
          +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
          +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
          +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#231 …}
          +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
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          +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1868 …}
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          +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2410 …}
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          -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1950 …}
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          }
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          +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687169920 {#269
            date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
          }
        }
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2389 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1548 …2}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2369 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2369 …}
        +body: "What are the dependencies? I always have trouble figuring those out. It could be any obscure combination of stuff to install, with specific versions. Yeah bottles makes it easy to install them but what’s the use of you don’t know which."
        +lang: "en"
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        }
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          "@plague_sapiens@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2387 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2394 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2393 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1381 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1402 …}
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        -id: 136194
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    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent {#23055
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      +spamProtection: true
      +customCss: null
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      +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22818 …}
      +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22820 …}
      +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22822 …}
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        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        ### Rules • [Full Version](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
        \n
        **1**. Posts must be related to the discussion of digital piracy\n
        \n
        **2**. Don’t request invites, trade, sell, or self-promote\n
        \n
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        \n
        **4**. Don’t submit low-quality posts, be entitled, or harass others\n
        \n
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        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        [![](https://a.imagem.app/oZoQ1v.png)](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
        ---------------------------------------------------------------------------\n
        \n
        ### Loot, Pillage, & Plunder\n
        \n
        - [📜 Megathread](https://rentry.co/megathread)\n
        - [🪶 FAQ](https://rentry.co/piracy-faq)\n
        - [🪶 ISP Complaints](https://rentry.co/piracy-isp-complaints)\n
        - [🪶 Rules](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        💰 Please help cover server costs.\n
        \n
        [![Ko-Fi](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/4a2f073a-3dd8-492a-942d-72bd929c9f1d.png)](https://ko-fi.com/dbzer0)[![Liberapay](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/eec4659d-39be-4fc9-bc9e-66a96285ea2c.png)](https://liberapay.com/db0/)\n
        \n
        ---
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    +image: null
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    +title: "Has anyone had any luck with Dodi repacks on Linux ?"
    +url: null
    +body: """
      So I downloaded Dodi’s Sekiro repack and installed it through bottles, but the game does not launch.\n
      \n
      Also tried adding the exe file to Heroic, gave me the same result as Bottles.\n
      \n
      On windows, I remember this exact repack working perfectly. So maybe they way I installed it in Linux is causing the issue ?
      """
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boost App\Twig\Components\BoostComponent 20.0 MiB 0.97 ms
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      +description: """
        ##### ⚓ Community devoted to in-depth debate on topics concerning digital piracy, ethical problems, and legal advancements.\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        ### Rules • [Full Version](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
        \n
        **1**. Posts must be related to the discussion of digital piracy\n
        \n
        **2**. Don’t request invites, trade, sell, or self-promote\n
        \n
        **3**. Don’t request or link to specific pirated titles, including DMs\n
        \n
        **4**. Don’t submit low-quality posts, be entitled, or harass others\n
        \n
        **5**. Don’t post questions already answered. READ THE [WIKI](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        [![](https://a.imagem.app/oZoQ1v.png)](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
        ---------------------------------------------------------------------------\n
        \n
        ### Loot, Pillage, & Plunder\n
        \n
        - [📜 Megathread](https://rentry.co/megathread)\n
        - [🪶 FAQ](https://rentry.co/piracy-faq)\n
        - [🪶 ISP Complaints](https://rentry.co/piracy-isp-complaints)\n
        - [🪶 Rules](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        💰 Please help cover server costs.\n
        \n
        [![Ko-Fi](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/4a2f073a-3dd8-492a-942d-72bd929c9f1d.png)](https://ko-fi.com/dbzer0)[![Liberapay](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/eec4659d-39be-4fc9-bc9e-66a96285ea2c.png)](https://liberapay.com/db0/)\n
        \n
        ---
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      So I downloaded Dodi’s Sekiro repack and installed it through bottles, but the game does not launch.\n
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      Also tried adding the exe file to Heroic, gave me the same result as Bottles.\n
      \n
      On windows, I remember this exact repack working perfectly. So maybe they way I installed it in Linux is causing the issue ?
      """
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        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        ### Rules • [Full Version](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
        \n
        **1**. Posts must be related to the discussion of digital piracy\n
        \n
        **2**. Don’t request invites, trade, sell, or self-promote\n
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        **4**. Don’t submit low-quality posts, be entitled, or harass others\n
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        **5**. Don’t post questions already answered. READ THE [WIKI](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        [![](https://a.imagem.app/oZoQ1v.png)](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
        ---------------------------------------------------------------------------\n
        \n
        ### Loot, Pillage, & Plunder\n
        \n
        - [📜 Megathread](https://rentry.co/megathread)\n
        - [🪶 FAQ](https://rentry.co/piracy-faq)\n
        - [🪶 ISP Complaints](https://rentry.co/piracy-isp-complaints)\n
        - [🪶 Rules](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        💰 Please help cover server costs.\n
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        [![Ko-Fi](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/4a2f073a-3dd8-492a-942d-72bd929c9f1d.png)](https://ko-fi.com/dbzer0)[![Liberapay](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/eec4659d-39be-4fc9-bc9e-66a96285ea2c.png)](https://liberapay.com/db0/)\n
        \n
        ---
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      So I downloaded Dodi’s Sekiro repack and installed it through bottles, but the game does not launch.\n
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      On windows, I remember this exact repack working perfectly. So maybe they way I installed it in Linux is causing the issue ?
      """
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      date: 2023-11-17 10:49:18.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  -cache: Symfony\Component\Cache\Adapter\TraceableTagAwareAdapter {#600 …}
}
entry_comment App\Twig\Components\EntryCommentComponent 20.0 MiB 11.64 ms
Input props
[
  "comment" => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2391
    +user: App\Entity\User {#259
      +avatar: null
      +cover: null
      +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
      +username: "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
      +roles: []
      +followersCount: 0
      +homepage: "front"
      +about: null
      +lastActive: DateTime @1727573233 {#267
        date: 2024-09-29 03:27:13.0 +02:00
      }
      +markedForDeletionAt: null
      +fields: null
      +oauthGithubId: null
      +oauthGoogleId: null
      +oauthFacebookId: null
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      +hideAdult: true
      +showSubscribedUsers: true
      +showSubscribedMagazines: true
      +showSubscribedDomains: true
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      +featuredMagazines: null
      +showProfileSubscriptions: true
      +showProfileFollowings: true
      +markNewComments: false
      +notifyOnNewEntry: false
      +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
      +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
      +notifyOnNewPost: false
      +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
      +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: false
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      +isDeleted: false
      +isBot: false
      +spamProtection: true
      +customCss: null
      +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
      +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
      +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
      +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#231 …}
      +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
      +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#161 …}
      +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#134 …}
      +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#104 …}
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      +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1816 …}
      +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1851 …}
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        date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
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    }
    +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2389
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        +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22824 …}
        +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22826 …}
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1691557223 {#22817
          date: 2023-08-09 07:00:23.0 +02:00
        }
        +__isInitialized__: true
         …2
      }
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1548
        +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#12690 …}
        +name: "piracy@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        +title: "piracy"
        +description: """
          ##### ⚓ Community devoted to in-depth debate on topics concerning digital piracy, ethical problems, and legal advancements.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          ### Rules • [Full Version](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
          \n
          **1**. Posts must be related to the discussion of digital piracy\n
          \n
          **2**. Don’t request invites, trade, sell, or self-promote\n
          \n
          **3**. Don’t request or link to specific pirated titles, including DMs\n
          \n
          **4**. Don’t submit low-quality posts, be entitled, or harass others\n
          \n
          **5**. Don’t post questions already answered. READ THE [WIKI](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          [![](https://a.imagem.app/oZoQ1v.png)](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
          ---------------------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ### Loot, Pillage, & Plunder\n
          \n
          - [📜 Megathread](https://rentry.co/megathread)\n
          - [🪶 FAQ](https://rentry.co/piracy-faq)\n
          - [🪶 ISP Complaints](https://rentry.co/piracy-isp-complaints)\n
          - [🪶 Rules](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          💰 Please help cover server costs.\n
          \n
          [![Ko-Fi](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/4a2f073a-3dd8-492a-942d-72bd929c9f1d.png)](https://ko-fi.com/dbzer0)[![Liberapay](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/eec4659d-39be-4fc9-bc9e-66a96285ea2c.png)](https://liberapay.com/db0/)\n
          \n
          ---
          """
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        +entryCommentCount: 19337
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        +postCommentCount: 149
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        +lastActive: DateTime @1727579107 {#12687
          date: 2024-09-29 03:05:07.944072 UTC (+00:00)
        }
        +markedForDeletionAt: null
        +tags: null
        +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12691 …}
        +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12693 …}
        +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12695 …}
        +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12697 …}
        +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12699 …}
        +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12701 …}
        +bans: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12703 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12705 …}
        +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12707 …}
        +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12709 …}
        +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12711 …}
        +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12713 …}
        -id: 51
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          date: 2024-02-24 06:17:09.0 +01:00
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        +__isInitialized__: true
         …2
      }
      +image: null
      +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2956 …}
      +slug: "Has-anyone-had-any-luck-with-Dodi-repacks-on-Linux"
      +title: "Has anyone had any luck with Dodi repacks on Linux ?"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        So I downloaded Dodi’s Sekiro repack and installed it through bottles, but the game does not launch.\n
        \n
        Also tried adding the exe file to Heroic, gave me the same result as Bottles.\n
        \n
        On windows, I remember this exact repack working perfectly. So maybe they way I installed it in Linux is causing the issue ?
        """
      +type: "article"
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      +ip: null
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      +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3183 …}
      +children: [
        App\Entity\EntryComment {#2391}
      ]
      -id: 13806
      -titleTs: "'anyon':2 'dodi':7 'linux':10 'luck':5 'repack':8"
      -bodyTs: "'ad':21 'also':19 'bottl':12,33 'caus':53 'dodi':4 'download':3 'exact':39 'exe':23 'file':24 'game':15 'gave':27 'heroic':26 'instal':9,48 'issu':55 'launch':18 'linux':51 'mayb':44 'perfect':42 'rememb':37 'repack':7,40 'result':31 'sekiro':6 'tri':20 'way':46 'window':35 'work':41"
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        date: 2023-11-17 10:49:18.0 +01:00
      }
      +__isInitialized__: true
       …2
    }
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1548 …2}
    +image: null
    +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2369 …}
    +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2369 …}
    +body: "What are the dependencies? I always have trouble figuring those out. It could be any obscure combination of stuff to install, with specific versions. Yeah bottles makes it easy to install them but what’s the use of you don’t know which."
    +lang: "en"
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    }
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      "@gunpachi@lemmings.world"
      "@plague_sapiens@lemmy.world"
    ]
    +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2387 …}
    +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2394 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2393 …}
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    }
    +"title": 136194
  }
  "showEntryTitle" => false
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  "showMagazineName" => false
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\EntryCommentComponent {#23363
  +comment: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2391
    +user: App\Entity\User {#259
      +avatar: null
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      +customCss: null
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      +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
      +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
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      +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
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        date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
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    }
    +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2389
      +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#3131
        +avatar: null
        +cover: null
        +email: "gunpachi@lemmings.world"
        +username: "@gunpachi@lemmings.world"
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          date: 2024-09-10 04:19:18.0 +02:00
        }
        +markedForDeletionAt: null
        +fields: null
        +oauthGithubId: null
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        +preferredLanguages: []
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        +markNewComments: false
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        +notifyOnNewEntryReply: true
        +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: true
        +notifyOnNewPost: false
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        +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: true
        +addMentionsEntries: false
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        +isBanned: false
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        +isBot: false
        +spamProtection: true
        +customCss: null
        +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
        +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22818 …}
        +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22820 …}
        +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22822 …}
        +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22824 …}
        +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22826 …}
        +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22828 …}
        +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22830 …}
        +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22832 …}
        +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22834 …}
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        +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22838 …}
        +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22840 …}
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        +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22846 …}
        +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22848 …}
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        +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22852 …}
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        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22858 …}
        +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22860 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22862 …}
        +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22864 …}
        +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22866 …}
        +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22868 …}
        -id: 39634
        -password: "$2y$13$RofWE4f.irwOdnR3XgcOsOkAQDq7I3Psz9iehfYzgbBPKOCxLyEji"
        -totpSecret: null
        -totpBackupCodes: []
        -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22870 …}
        +apId: "gunpachi@lemmings.world"
        +apProfileId: "https://lemmings.world/u/gunpachi"
        +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmings.world/u/gunpachi"
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        +apDiscoverable: true
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        +privateKey: null
        +publicKey: null
        +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1727214202 {#22816
          date: 2024-09-24 23:43:22.0 +02:00
        }
        +apDeletedAt: null
        +apTimeoutAt: null
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1691557223 {#22817
          date: 2023-08-09 07:00:23.0 +02:00
        }
        +__isInitialized__: true
         …2
      }
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1548
        +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#12690 …}
        +name: "piracy@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        +title: "piracy"
        +description: """
          ##### ⚓ Community devoted to in-depth debate on topics concerning digital piracy, ethical problems, and legal advancements.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          ### Rules • [Full Version](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
          \n
          **1**. Posts must be related to the discussion of digital piracy\n
          \n
          **2**. Don’t request invites, trade, sell, or self-promote\n
          \n
          **3**. Don’t request or link to specific pirated titles, including DMs\n
          \n
          **4**. Don’t submit low-quality posts, be entitled, or harass others\n
          \n
          **5**. Don’t post questions already answered. READ THE [WIKI](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          [![](https://a.imagem.app/oZoQ1v.png)](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
          ---------------------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ### Loot, Pillage, & Plunder\n
          \n
          - [📜 Megathread](https://rentry.co/megathread)\n
          - [🪶 FAQ](https://rentry.co/piracy-faq)\n
          - [🪶 ISP Complaints](https://rentry.co/piracy-isp-complaints)\n
          - [🪶 Rules](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          💰 Please help cover server costs.\n
          \n
          [![Ko-Fi](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/4a2f073a-3dd8-492a-942d-72bd929c9f1d.png)](https://ko-fi.com/dbzer0)[![Liberapay](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/eec4659d-39be-4fc9-bc9e-66a96285ea2c.png)](https://liberapay.com/db0/)\n
          \n
          ---
          """
        +rules: null
        +subscriptionsCount: 1
        +entryCount: 826
        +entryCommentCount: 19337
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        +postCommentCount: 149
        +isAdult: false
        +customCss: null
        +lastActive: DateTime @1727579107 {#12687
          date: 2024-09-29 03:05:07.944072 UTC (+00:00)
        }
        +markedForDeletionAt: null
        +tags: null
        +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12691 …}
        +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12693 …}
        +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12695 …}
        +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12697 …}
        +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12699 …}
        +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12701 …}
        +bans: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12703 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12705 …}
        +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12707 …}
        +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12709 …}
        +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12711 …}
        +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12713 …}
        -id: 51
        +apId: "piracy@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/piracy"
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        +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/inbox"
        +apDomain: "lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        +apPreferredUsername: "piracy"
        +apDiscoverable: true
        +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
        +privateKey: null
        +publicKey: null
        +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1708751829 {#12688
          date: 2024-02-24 06:17:09.0 +01:00
        }
        +apDeletedAt: null
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697197339 {#12689
          date: 2023-10-13 13:42:19.0 +02:00
        }
        +__isInitialized__: true
         …2
      }
      +image: null
      +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2956 …}
      +slug: "Has-anyone-had-any-luck-with-Dodi-repacks-on-Linux"
      +title: "Has anyone had any luck with Dodi repacks on Linux ?"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        So I downloaded Dodi’s Sekiro repack and installed it through bottles, but the game does not launch.\n
        \n
        Also tried adding the exe file to Heroic, gave me the same result as Bottles.\n
        \n
        On windows, I remember this exact repack working perfectly. So maybe they way I installed it in Linux is causing the issue ?
        """
      +type: "article"
      +lang: "en"
      +isOc: false
      +hasEmbed: false
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      +lastActive: DateTime @1700316823 {#3167
        date: 2023-11-18 15:13:43.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +adaAmount: 0
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      +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3172 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3175 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3177 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3179 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3181 …}
      +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3183 …}
      +children: [
        App\Entity\EntryComment {#2391}
      ]
      -id: 13806
      -titleTs: "'anyon':2 'dodi':7 'linux':10 'luck':5 'repack':8"
      -bodyTs: "'ad':21 'also':19 'bottl':12,33 'caus':53 'dodi':4 'download':3 'exact':39 'exe':23 'file':24 'game':15 'gave':27 'heroic':26 'instal':9,48 'issu':55 'launch':18 'linux':51 'mayb':44 'perfect':42 'rememb':37 'repack':7,40 'result':31 'sekiro':6 'tri':20 'way':46 'window':35 'work':41"
      +cross: false
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        date: 2023-11-17 10:49:18.0 +01:00
      }
      +__isInitialized__: true
       …2
    }
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1548 …2}
    +image: null
    +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2369 …}
    +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2369 …}
    +body: "What are the dependencies? I always have trouble figuring those out. It could be any obscure combination of stuff to install, with specific versions. Yeah bottles makes it easy to install them but what’s the use of you don’t know which."
    +lang: "en"
    +isAdult: false
    +favouriteCount: 0
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    +lastActive: DateTime @1700289472 {#1407
      date: 2023-11-18 07:37:52.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
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    +mentions: [
      "@gunpachi@lemmings.world"
      "@plague_sapiens@lemmy.world"
    ]
    +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2387 …}
    +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2394 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2393 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1381 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1402 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1385 …}
    -id: 136194
    -bodyTs: "'alway':6 'bottl':26 'combin':17 'could':13 'depend':4 'easi':29 'figur':9 'instal':21,31 'know':42 'make':27 'obscur':16 'specif':23 'stuff':19 'troubl':8 'use':37 'version':24 'yeah':25"
    +ranking: 0
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700289472 {#1883
      date: 2023-11-18 07:37:52.0 +01:00
    }
    +"title": 136194
  }
  +showMagazineName: false
  +showEntryTitle: false
  +showNested: false
  +level: 1
  +canSeeTrash: false
  +dateAsUrl: true
  -requestStack: Symfony\Component\HttpFoundation\RequestStack {#1328 …}
  -authorizationChecker: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\AuthorizationChecker {#931 …}
}
user_inline App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent 20.0 MiB 0.21 ms
Input props
[
  "user" => App\Entity\User {#259
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +username: "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1727573233 {#267
      date: 2024-09-29 03:27:13.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
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    +hideAdult: true
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    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
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    +preferredLanguages: []
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    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
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    +notifyOnNewPost: false
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    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: false
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
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    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
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    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#161 …}
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    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#77 …}
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    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1816 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1851 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1868 …}
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    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1602 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1768 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1862 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1836 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1846 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1831 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2410 …}
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    -totpSecret: null
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    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1950 …}
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    +apDiscoverable: true
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    +privateKey: null
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      date: 2024-09-22 23:15:33.0 +02:00
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    +apDeletedAt: null
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    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687169920 {#269
      date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  "showAvatar" => false
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent {#23408
  +user: App\Entity\User {#259
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +username: "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1727573233 {#267
      date: 2024-09-29 03:27:13.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: true
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
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    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
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    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#231 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#161 …}
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    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#77 …}
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    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1868 …}
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    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1768 …}
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    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1846 …}
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    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1950 …}
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    +apDeletedAt: null
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687169920 {#269
      date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
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  +showAvatar: false
}
date App\Twig\Components\DateComponent 20.0 MiB 0.18 ms
Input props
[
  "date" => DateTimeImmutable @1700289472 {#1883
    date: 2023-11-18 07:37:52.0 +01:00
  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateComponent {#23464
  +date: DateTimeImmutable @1700289472 {#1883
    date: 2023-11-18 07:37:52.0 +01:00
  }
}
date_edited App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent 20.0 MiB 0.13 ms
Input props
[
  "createdAt" => DateTimeImmutable @1700289472 {#1883
    date: 2023-11-18 07:37:52.0 +01:00
  }
  "editedAt" => null
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent {#23518
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700289472 {#1883
    date: 2023-11-18 07:37:52.0 +01:00
  }
  +editedAt: null
}
user_avatar App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent 20.0 MiB 0.18 ms
Input props
[
  "user" => App\Entity\User {#259
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +username: "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1727573233 {#267
      date: 2024-09-29 03:27:13.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
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    +hideAdult: true
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    +featuredMagazines: null
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    +addMentionsPosts: true
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    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
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    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#161 …}
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    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1950 …}
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    +apDiscoverable: true
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    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1727039733 {#272
      date: 2024-09-22 23:15:33.0 +02:00
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    +apDeletedAt: null
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687169920 {#269
      date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  "width" => 40
  "height" => 40
  "asLink" => true
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent {#23572
  +width: 40
  +height: 40
  +user: App\Entity\User {#259
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +username: "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +roles: []
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    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1727573233 {#267
      date: 2024-09-29 03:27:13.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
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    +oauthGoogleId: null
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  }
  +asLink: true
}
vote App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent 20.0 MiB 0.50 ms
Input props
[
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      +cover: null
      +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
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          ##### ⚓ Community devoted to in-depth debate on topics concerning digital piracy, ethical problems, and legal advancements.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          ### Rules • [Full Version](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
          \n
          **1**. Posts must be related to the discussion of digital piracy\n
          \n
          **2**. Don’t request invites, trade, sell, or self-promote\n
          \n
          **3**. Don’t request or link to specific pirated titles, including DMs\n
          \n
          **4**. Don’t submit low-quality posts, be entitled, or harass others\n
          \n
          **5**. Don’t post questions already answered. READ THE [WIKI](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          [![](https://a.imagem.app/oZoQ1v.png)](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
          ---------------------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ### Loot, Pillage, & Plunder\n
          \n
          - [📜 Megathread](https://rentry.co/megathread)\n
          - [🪶 FAQ](https://rentry.co/piracy-faq)\n
          - [🪶 ISP Complaints](https://rentry.co/piracy-isp-complaints)\n
          - [🪶 Rules](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          💰 Please help cover server costs.\n
          \n
          [![Ko-Fi](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/4a2f073a-3dd8-492a-942d-72bd929c9f1d.png)](https://ko-fi.com/dbzer0)[![Liberapay](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/eec4659d-39be-4fc9-bc9e-66a96285ea2c.png)](https://liberapay.com/db0/)\n
          \n
          ---
          """
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      +image: null
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      +slug: "Has-anyone-had-any-luck-with-Dodi-repacks-on-Linux"
      +title: "Has anyone had any luck with Dodi repacks on Linux ?"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        So I downloaded Dodi’s Sekiro repack and installed it through bottles, but the game does not launch.\n
        \n
        Also tried adding the exe file to Heroic, gave me the same result as Bottles.\n
        \n
        On windows, I remember this exact repack working perfectly. So maybe they way I installed it in Linux is causing the issue ?
        """
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      ]
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       …2
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    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1548 …2}
    +image: null
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    +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2369 …}
    +body: "What are the dependencies? I always have trouble figuring those out. It could be any obscure combination of stuff to install, with specific versions. Yeah bottles makes it easy to install them but what’s the use of you don’t know which."
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]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent {#23641
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    +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2389
      +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#3131
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      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1548
        +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#12690 …}
        +name: "piracy@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        +title: "piracy"
        +description: """
          ##### ⚓ Community devoted to in-depth debate on topics concerning digital piracy, ethical problems, and legal advancements.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          ### Rules • [Full Version](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
          \n
          **1**. Posts must be related to the discussion of digital piracy\n
          \n
          **2**. Don’t request invites, trade, sell, or self-promote\n
          \n
          **3**. Don’t request or link to specific pirated titles, including DMs\n
          \n
          **4**. Don’t submit low-quality posts, be entitled, or harass others\n
          \n
          **5**. Don’t post questions already answered. READ THE [WIKI](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          [![](https://a.imagem.app/oZoQ1v.png)](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
          ---------------------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ### Loot, Pillage, & Plunder\n
          \n
          - [📜 Megathread](https://rentry.co/megathread)\n
          - [🪶 FAQ](https://rentry.co/piracy-faq)\n
          - [🪶 ISP Complaints](https://rentry.co/piracy-isp-complaints)\n
          - [🪶 Rules](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          💰 Please help cover server costs.\n
          \n
          [![Ko-Fi](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/4a2f073a-3dd8-492a-942d-72bd929c9f1d.png)](https://ko-fi.com/dbzer0)[![Liberapay](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/eec4659d-39be-4fc9-bc9e-66a96285ea2c.png)](https://liberapay.com/db0/)\n
          \n
          ---
          """
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        +entryCommentCount: 19337
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        +markedForDeletionAt: null
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        -id: 51
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        +__isInitialized__: true
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      }
      +image: null
      +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2956 …}
      +slug: "Has-anyone-had-any-luck-with-Dodi-repacks-on-Linux"
      +title: "Has anyone had any luck with Dodi repacks on Linux ?"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        So I downloaded Dodi’s Sekiro repack and installed it through bottles, but the game does not launch.\n
        \n
        Also tried adding the exe file to Heroic, gave me the same result as Bottles.\n
        \n
        On windows, I remember this exact repack working perfectly. So maybe they way I installed it in Linux is causing the issue ?
        """
      +type: "article"
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      +ip: null
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      +children: [
        App\Entity\EntryComment {#2391}
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      -id: 13806
      -titleTs: "'anyon':2 'dodi':7 'linux':10 'luck':5 'repack':8"
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      +cross: false
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       …2
    }
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1548 …2}
    +image: null
    +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2369 …}
    +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2369 …}
    +body: "What are the dependencies? I always have trouble figuring those out. It could be any obscure combination of stuff to install, with specific versions. Yeah bottles makes it easy to install them but what’s the use of you don’t know which."
    +lang: "en"
    +isAdult: false
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    +ip: null
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      "@plague_sapiens@lemmy.world"
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    +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2387 …}
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    +"title": 136194
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  +formDest: "entry_comment"
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  -cache: Symfony\Component\Cache\Adapter\TraceableTagAwareAdapter {#600 …}
}
boost App\Twig\Components\BoostComponent 20.0 MiB 0.97 ms
Input props
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         …2
      }
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        +name: "piracy@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        +title: "piracy"
        +description: """
          ##### ⚓ Community devoted to in-depth debate on topics concerning digital piracy, ethical problems, and legal advancements.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          ### Rules • [Full Version](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
          \n
          **1**. Posts must be related to the discussion of digital piracy\n
          \n
          **2**. Don’t request invites, trade, sell, or self-promote\n
          \n
          **3**. Don’t request or link to specific pirated titles, including DMs\n
          \n
          **4**. Don’t submit low-quality posts, be entitled, or harass others\n
          \n
          **5**. Don’t post questions already answered. READ THE [WIKI](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          [![](https://a.imagem.app/oZoQ1v.png)](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
          ---------------------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ### Loot, Pillage, & Plunder\n
          \n
          - [📜 Megathread](https://rentry.co/megathread)\n
          - [🪶 FAQ](https://rentry.co/piracy-faq)\n
          - [🪶 ISP Complaints](https://rentry.co/piracy-isp-complaints)\n
          - [🪶 Rules](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          💰 Please help cover server costs.\n
          \n
          [![Ko-Fi](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/4a2f073a-3dd8-492a-942d-72bd929c9f1d.png)](https://ko-fi.com/dbzer0)[![Liberapay](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/eec4659d-39be-4fc9-bc9e-66a96285ea2c.png)](https://liberapay.com/db0/)\n
          \n
          ---
          """
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      +url: null
      +body: """
        So I downloaded Dodi’s Sekiro repack and installed it through bottles, but the game does not launch.\n
        \n
        Also tried adding the exe file to Heroic, gave me the same result as Bottles.\n
        \n
        On windows, I remember this exact repack working perfectly. So maybe they way I installed it in Linux is causing the issue ?
        """
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]
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App\Twig\Components\BoostComponent {#23698
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        +title: "piracy"
        +description: """
          ##### ⚓ Community devoted to in-depth debate on topics concerning digital piracy, ethical problems, and legal advancements.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          ### Rules • [Full Version](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
          \n
          **1**. Posts must be related to the discussion of digital piracy\n
          \n
          **2**. Don’t request invites, trade, sell, or self-promote\n
          \n
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          **4**. Don’t submit low-quality posts, be entitled, or harass others\n
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          **5**. Don’t post questions already answered. READ THE [WIKI](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          [![](https://a.imagem.app/oZoQ1v.png)](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
          ---------------------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ### Loot, Pillage, & Plunder\n
          \n
          - [📜 Megathread](https://rentry.co/megathread)\n
          - [🪶 FAQ](https://rentry.co/piracy-faq)\n
          - [🪶 ISP Complaints](https://rentry.co/piracy-isp-complaints)\n
          - [🪶 Rules](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          💰 Please help cover server costs.\n
          \n
          [![Ko-Fi](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/4a2f073a-3dd8-492a-942d-72bd929c9f1d.png)](https://ko-fi.com/dbzer0)[![Liberapay](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/eec4659d-39be-4fc9-bc9e-66a96285ea2c.png)](https://liberapay.com/db0/)\n
          \n
          ---
          """
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        So I downloaded Dodi’s Sekiro repack and installed it through bottles, but the game does not launch.\n
        \n
        Also tried adding the exe file to Heroic, gave me the same result as Bottles.\n
        \n
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        """
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    +body: "What are the dependencies? I always have trouble figuring those out. It could be any obscure combination of stuff to install, with specific versions. Yeah bottles makes it easy to install them but what’s the use of you don’t know which."
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entry App\Twig\Components\EntryComponent 20.0 MiB 8.28 ms
Input props
[
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    }
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      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#12690 …}
      +name: "piracy@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
      +title: "piracy"
      +description: """
        ##### ⚓ Community devoted to in-depth debate on topics concerning digital piracy, ethical problems, and legal advancements.\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        ### Rules • [Full Version](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
        \n
        **1**. Posts must be related to the discussion of digital piracy\n
        \n
        **2**. Don’t request invites, trade, sell, or self-promote\n
        \n
        **3**. Don’t request or link to specific pirated titles, including DMs\n
        \n
        **4**. Don’t submit low-quality posts, be entitled, or harass others\n
        \n
        **5**. Don’t post questions already answered. READ THE [WIKI](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        [![](https://a.imagem.app/oZoQ1v.png)](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
        ---------------------------------------------------------------------------\n
        \n
        ### Loot, Pillage, & Plunder\n
        \n
        - [📜 Megathread](https://rentry.co/megathread)\n
        - [🪶 FAQ](https://rentry.co/piracy-faq)\n
        - [🪶 ISP Complaints](https://rentry.co/piracy-isp-complaints)\n
        - [🪶 Rules](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        💰 Please help cover server costs.\n
        \n
        [![Ko-Fi](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/4a2f073a-3dd8-492a-942d-72bd929c9f1d.png)](https://ko-fi.com/dbzer0)[![Liberapay](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/eec4659d-39be-4fc9-bc9e-66a96285ea2c.png)](https://liberapay.com/db0/)\n
        \n
        ---
        """
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      +__isInitialized__: true
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    }
    +image: null
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2956 …}
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    +title: "Is there an iOS app that can download YouTube music songs to mp3 like InnerTune can for Android?"
    +url: null
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            date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
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        }
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1563 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1548 …2}
        +image: null
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        +body: "[getvideo.at](https://getvideo.at/)"
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2023-11-19 11:05:50.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
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          "@JackGreenEarth@lemm.ee"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1564 …}
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        -bodyTs: "'/)':4 'getvideo.at':1,3 'getvideo.at/)':2"
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    ]
    -id: 13365
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    +cross: false
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      date: 2023-11-16 00:12:07.0 +01:00
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     …2
  }
  "dateAsUrl" => true
]
Attributes
[
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]
Component
App\Twig\Components\EntryComponent {#23949
  -authorizationChecker: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\AuthorizationChecker {#931 …}
  -newCommentMarkerCount: App\Kbin\NewCommentMarker\NewCommentMarkerCount {#4024 …}
  -cache: Symfony\Component\Cache\Adapter\TraceableTagAwareAdapter {#600 …}
  -twig: Twig\Environment {#1252 …}
  -requestStack: Symfony\Component\HttpFoundation\RequestStack {#1328 …}
  -security: Symfony\Bundle\SecurityBundle\Security {#1101 …}
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    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1997
      +avatar: null
      +cover: null
      +email: "JackGreenEarth@lemm.ee"
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      +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24052 …}
      +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24054 …}
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      +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24058 …}
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      +apDeletedAt: null
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      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1689117186 {#24051
        date: 2023-07-12 01:13:06.0 +02:00
      }
      +__isInitialized__: true
       …2
    }
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1548
      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#12690 …}
      +name: "piracy@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
      +title: "piracy"
      +description: """
        ##### ⚓ Community devoted to in-depth debate on topics concerning digital piracy, ethical problems, and legal advancements.\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        ### Rules • [Full Version](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
        \n
        **1**. Posts must be related to the discussion of digital piracy\n
        \n
        **2**. Don’t request invites, trade, sell, or self-promote\n
        \n
        **3**. Don’t request or link to specific pirated titles, including DMs\n
        \n
        **4**. Don’t submit low-quality posts, be entitled, or harass others\n
        \n
        **5**. Don’t post questions already answered. READ THE [WIKI](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        [![](https://a.imagem.app/oZoQ1v.png)](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
        ---------------------------------------------------------------------------\n
        \n
        ### Loot, Pillage, & Plunder\n
        \n
        - [📜 Megathread](https://rentry.co/megathread)\n
        - [🪶 FAQ](https://rentry.co/piracy-faq)\n
        - [🪶 ISP Complaints](https://rentry.co/piracy-isp-complaints)\n
        - [🪶 Rules](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        💰 Please help cover server costs.\n
        \n
        [![Ko-Fi](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/4a2f073a-3dd8-492a-942d-72bd929c9f1d.png)](https://ko-fi.com/dbzer0)[![Liberapay](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/eec4659d-39be-4fc9-bc9e-66a96285ea2c.png)](https://liberapay.com/db0/)\n
        \n
        ---
        """
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      }
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      +__isInitialized__: true
       …2
    }
    +image: null
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2956 …}
    +slug: "Is-there-an-iOS-app-that-can-download-YouTube-music"
    +title: "Is there an iOS app that can download YouTube music songs to mp3 like InnerTune can for Android?"
    +url: null
    +body: "Obviously Android is clearly a superior platform, but the only device someone I know has is an iPhone, and I want to know if I can recommend them an app to easily do this for them."
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          +lastActive: DateTime @1727573233 {#267
            date: 2024-09-29 03:27:13.0 +02:00
          }
          +markedForDeletionAt: null
          +fields: null
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          +preferredLanguages: []
          +featuredMagazines: null
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          +markNewComments: false
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          +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
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          +isBot: false
          +spamProtection: true
          +customCss: null
          +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
          +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
          +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
          +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#231 …}
          +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
          +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#161 …}
          +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#134 …}
          +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#104 …}
          +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#77 …}
          +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#92 …}
          +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1816 …}
          +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1851 …}
          +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1868 …}
          +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1594 …}
          +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1602 …}
          +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1768 …}
          +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1862 …}
          +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1836 …}
          +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1846 …}
          +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1831 …}
          +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2410 …}
          +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1955 …}
          +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2399 …}
          +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1911 …}
          +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1914 …}
          +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1884 …}
          +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1915 …}
          -id: 5129
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          -totpSecret: null
          -totpBackupCodes: []
          -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1950 …}
          +apId: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
          +apProfileId: "https://feddit.nl/u/lemmyvore"
          +apPublicUrl: "https://feddit.nl/u/lemmyvore"
          +apFollowersUrl: null
          +apInboxUrl: "https://feddit.nl/inbox"
          +apDomain: "feddit.nl"
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          +apDiscoverable: true
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          +privateKey: null
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          +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1727039733 {#272
            date: 2024-09-22 23:15:33.0 +02:00
          }
          +apDeletedAt: null
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          +visibility: "visible             "
          +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687169920 {#269
            date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
          }
        }
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1563 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1548 …2}
        +image: null
        +parent: null
        +root: null
        +body: "[getvideo.at](https://getvideo.at/)"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 3
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1700388350 {#1574
          date: 2023-11-19 11:05:50.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@JackGreenEarth@lemm.ee"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1564 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1558 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1557 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1621 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1613 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1596 …}
        -id: 129253
        -bodyTs: "'/)':4 'getvideo.at':1,3 'getvideo.at/)':2"
        +ranking: 0
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        +upVotes: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.nl/comment/4621026"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700114679 {#1562
          date: 2023-11-16 07:04:39.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 129253
      }
    ]
    -id: 13365
    -titleTs: "'android':18 'app':5 'download':8 'innertun':15 'io':4 'like':14 'mp3':13 'music':10 'song':11 'youtub':9"
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    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
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    +ranking: 1700176327
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemm.ee/post/15033654"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700089927 {#3026
      date: 2023-11-16 00:12:07.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +isSingle: false
  +showShortSentence: true
  +showBody: false
  +showMagazineName: true
  +canSeeTrash: false
  +newComments: 0
}
user_inline App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent 20.0 MiB 0.63 ms
Input props
[
  "user" => Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1997
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "JackGreenEarth@lemm.ee"
    +username: "@JackGreenEarth@lemm.ee"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1727458492 {#24049
      date: 2024-09-27 19:34:52.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: true
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
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    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
    +isVerified: false
    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24052 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24054 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24056 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24058 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24060 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24062 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24064 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24066 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24068 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24070 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24072 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24074 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24076 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24078 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24080 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24082 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24084 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24086 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24088 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24090 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24092 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24094 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24096 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24098 …}
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    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24104 …}
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    +apDiscoverable: true
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    +privateKey: null
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      date: 2024-09-27 23:43:18.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
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    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1689117186 {#24051
      date: 2023-07-12 01:13:06.0 +02:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  "showAvatar" => false
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent {#24012
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1997
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "JackGreenEarth@lemm.ee"
    +username: "@JackGreenEarth@lemm.ee"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1727458492 {#24049
      date: 2024-09-27 19:34:52.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
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    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: true
    +showProfileFollowings: true
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    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
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    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24052 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24054 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24056 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24058 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24060 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24062 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24064 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24066 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24068 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24070 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24072 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24074 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24076 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24078 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24080 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24082 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24084 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24086 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24088 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24090 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24092 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24094 …}
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    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24098 …}
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    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24104 …}
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    }
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      date: 2023-07-12 01:13:06.0 +02:00
    }
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     …2
  }
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}
date App\Twig\Components\DateComponent 20.0 MiB 0.18 ms
Input props
[
  "date" => DateTimeImmutable @1700089927 {#3026
    date: 2023-11-16 00:12:07.0 +01:00
  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateComponent {#24125
  +date: DateTimeImmutable @1700089927 {#3026
    date: 2023-11-16 00:12:07.0 +01:00
  }
}
date_edited App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent 20.0 MiB 0.09 ms
Input props
[
  "createdAt" => DateTimeImmutable @1700089927 {#3026
    date: 2023-11-16 00:12:07.0 +01:00
  }
  "editedAt" => null
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent {#24179
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700089927 {#3026
    date: 2023-11-16 00:12:07.0 +01:00
  }
  +editedAt: null
}
magazine_inline App\Twig\Components\MagazineInlineComponent 20.0 MiB 0.14 ms
Input props
[
  "magazine" => Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1548
    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#12690 …}
    +name: "piracy@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
    +title: "piracy"
    +description: """
      ##### ⚓ Community devoted to in-depth debate on topics concerning digital piracy, ethical problems, and legal advancements.\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      ### Rules • [Full Version](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
      \n
      **1**. Posts must be related to the discussion of digital piracy\n
      \n
      **2**. Don’t request invites, trade, sell, or self-promote\n
      \n
      **3**. Don’t request or link to specific pirated titles, including DMs\n
      \n
      **4**. Don’t submit low-quality posts, be entitled, or harass others\n
      \n
      **5**. Don’t post questions already answered. READ THE [WIKI](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      [![](https://a.imagem.app/oZoQ1v.png)](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
      ---------------------------------------------------------------------------\n
      \n
      ### Loot, Pillage, & Plunder\n
      \n
      - [📜 Megathread](https://rentry.co/megathread)\n
      - [🪶 FAQ](https://rentry.co/piracy-faq)\n
      - [🪶 ISP Complaints](https://rentry.co/piracy-isp-complaints)\n
      - [🪶 Rules](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      💰 Please help cover server costs.\n
      \n
      [![Ko-Fi](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/4a2f073a-3dd8-492a-942d-72bd929c9f1d.png)](https://ko-fi.com/dbzer0)[![Liberapay](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/eec4659d-39be-4fc9-bc9e-66a96285ea2c.png)](https://liberapay.com/db0/)\n
      \n
      ---
      """
    +rules: null
    +subscriptionsCount: 1
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    +entryCommentCount: 19337
    +postCount: 7
    +postCommentCount: 149
    +isAdult: false
    +customCss: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1727579107 {#12687
      date: 2024-09-29 03:05:07.944072 UTC (+00:00)
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +tags: null
    +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12691 …}
    +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12693 …}
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    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12701 …}
    +bans: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12703 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12705 …}
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    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12711 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12713 …}
    -id: 51
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    +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/piracy"
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    +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/inbox"
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    +apPreferredUsername: "piracy"
    +apDiscoverable: true
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    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1708751829 {#12688
      date: 2024-02-24 06:17:09.0 +01:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697197339 {#12689
      date: 2023-10-13 13:42:19.0 +02:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  "showAvatar" => false
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\MagazineInlineComponent {#24233
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1548
    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#12690 …}
    +name: "piracy@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
    +title: "piracy"
    +description: """
      ##### ⚓ Community devoted to in-depth debate on topics concerning digital piracy, ethical problems, and legal advancements.\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      ### Rules • [Full Version](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
      \n
      **1**. Posts must be related to the discussion of digital piracy\n
      \n
      **2**. Don’t request invites, trade, sell, or self-promote\n
      \n
      **3**. Don’t request or link to specific pirated titles, including DMs\n
      \n
      **4**. Don’t submit low-quality posts, be entitled, or harass others\n
      \n
      **5**. Don’t post questions already answered. READ THE [WIKI](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      [![](https://a.imagem.app/oZoQ1v.png)](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
      ---------------------------------------------------------------------------\n
      \n
      ### Loot, Pillage, & Plunder\n
      \n
      - [📜 Megathread](https://rentry.co/megathread)\n
      - [🪶 FAQ](https://rentry.co/piracy-faq)\n
      - [🪶 ISP Complaints](https://rentry.co/piracy-isp-complaints)\n
      - [🪶 Rules](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      💰 Please help cover server costs.\n
      \n
      [![Ko-Fi](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/4a2f073a-3dd8-492a-942d-72bd929c9f1d.png)](https://ko-fi.com/dbzer0)[![Liberapay](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/eec4659d-39be-4fc9-bc9e-66a96285ea2c.png)](https://liberapay.com/db0/)\n
      \n
      ---
      """
    +rules: null
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    +entryCommentCount: 19337
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    +postCommentCount: 149
    +isAdult: false
    +customCss: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1727579107 {#12687
      date: 2024-09-29 03:05:07.944072 UTC (+00:00)
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +tags: null
    +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12691 …}
    +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12693 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12695 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12697 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12699 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12701 …}
    +bans: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12703 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12705 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12707 …}
    +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12709 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12711 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12713 …}
    -id: 51
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    +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/piracy"
    +apFollowersUrl: "https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/piracy/followers"
    +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/inbox"
    +apDomain: "lemmy.dbzer0.com"
    +apPreferredUsername: "piracy"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1708751829 {#12688
      date: 2024-02-24 06:17:09.0 +01:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
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    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697197339 {#12689
      date: 2023-10-13 13:42:19.0 +02:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +showTitle: true
  +fullName: false
  +stretchedLink: false
  +showAvatar: false
}
vote App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent 20.0 MiB 0.39 ms
Input props
[
  "subject" => Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1563
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1997
      +avatar: null
      +cover: null
      +email: "JackGreenEarth@lemm.ee"
      +username: "@JackGreenEarth@lemm.ee"
      +roles: []
      +followersCount: 0
      +homepage: "front"
      +about: null
      +lastActive: DateTime @1727458492 {#24049
        date: 2024-09-27 19:34:52.0 +02:00
      }
      +markedForDeletionAt: null
      +fields: null
      +oauthGithubId: null
      +oauthGoogleId: null
      +oauthFacebookId: null
      +oauthKeycloakId: null
      +hideAdult: true
      +showSubscribedUsers: true
      +showSubscribedMagazines: true
      +showSubscribedDomains: true
      +preferredLanguages: []
      +featuredMagazines: null
      +showProfileSubscriptions: true
      +showProfileFollowings: true
      +markNewComments: false
      +notifyOnNewEntry: false
      +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
      +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
      +notifyOnNewPost: false
      +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
      +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: false
      +addMentionsEntries: false
      +addMentionsPosts: true
      +isBanned: false
      +isVerified: false
      +isDeleted: false
      +isBot: false
      +spamProtection: true
      +customCss: null
      +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
      +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24052 …}
      +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24054 …}
      +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24056 …}
      +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24058 …}
      +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24060 …}
      +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24062 …}
      +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24064 …}
      +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24066 …}
      +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24068 …}
      +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24070 …}
      +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24072 …}
      +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24074 …}
      +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24076 …}
      +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24078 …}
      +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24080 …}
      +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24082 …}
      +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24084 …}
      +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24086 …}
      +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24088 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24090 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24092 …}
      +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24094 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24096 …}
      +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24098 …}
      +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24100 …}
      +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24102 …}
      -id: 23899
      -password: "$2y$13$/0clvxKSHjIcijOQuN8Hse.VwwqlQLXf.917xP6U2QtEcot2HL8ia"
      -totpSecret: null
      -totpBackupCodes: []
      -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24104 …}
      +apId: "JackGreenEarth@lemm.ee"
      +apProfileId: "https://lemm.ee/u/JackGreenEarth"
      +apPublicUrl: "https://lemm.ee/u/JackGreenEarth"
      +apFollowersUrl: null
      +apInboxUrl: "https://lemm.ee/inbox"
      +apDomain: "lemm.ee"
      +apPreferredUsername: "JackGreenEarth"
      +apDiscoverable: true
      +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
      +privateKey: null
      +publicKey: null
      +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1727473398 {#24050
        date: 2024-09-27 23:43:18.0 +02:00
      }
      +apDeletedAt: null
      +apTimeoutAt: null
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1689117186 {#24051
        date: 2023-07-12 01:13:06.0 +02:00
      }
      +__isInitialized__: true
       …2
    }
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1548
      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#12690 …}
      +name: "piracy@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
      +title: "piracy"
      +description: """
        ##### ⚓ Community devoted to in-depth debate on topics concerning digital piracy, ethical problems, and legal advancements.\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        ### Rules • [Full Version](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
        \n
        **1**. Posts must be related to the discussion of digital piracy\n
        \n
        **2**. Don’t request invites, trade, sell, or self-promote\n
        \n
        **3**. Don’t request or link to specific pirated titles, including DMs\n
        \n
        **4**. Don’t submit low-quality posts, be entitled, or harass others\n
        \n
        **5**. Don’t post questions already answered. READ THE [WIKI](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        [![](https://a.imagem.app/oZoQ1v.png)](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
        ---------------------------------------------------------------------------\n
        \n
        ### Loot, Pillage, & Plunder\n
        \n
        - [📜 Megathread](https://rentry.co/megathread)\n
        - [🪶 FAQ](https://rentry.co/piracy-faq)\n
        - [🪶 ISP Complaints](https://rentry.co/piracy-isp-complaints)\n
        - [🪶 Rules](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        💰 Please help cover server costs.\n
        \n
        [![Ko-Fi](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/4a2f073a-3dd8-492a-942d-72bd929c9f1d.png)](https://ko-fi.com/dbzer0)[![Liberapay](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/eec4659d-39be-4fc9-bc9e-66a96285ea2c.png)](https://liberapay.com/db0/)\n
        \n
        ---
        """
      +rules: null
      +subscriptionsCount: 1
      +entryCount: 826
      +entryCommentCount: 19337
      +postCount: 7
      +postCommentCount: 149
      +isAdult: false
      +customCss: null
      +lastActive: DateTime @1727579107 {#12687
        date: 2024-09-29 03:05:07.944072 UTC (+00:00)
      }
      +markedForDeletionAt: null
      +tags: null
      +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12691 …}
      +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12693 …}
      +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12695 …}
      +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12697 …}
      +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12699 …}
      +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12701 …}
      +bans: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12703 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12705 …}
      +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12707 …}
      +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12709 …}
      +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12711 …}
      +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12713 …}
      -id: 51
      +apId: "piracy@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
      +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/piracy"
      +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/piracy"
      +apFollowersUrl: "https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/piracy/followers"
      +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/inbox"
      +apDomain: "lemmy.dbzer0.com"
      +apPreferredUsername: "piracy"
      +apDiscoverable: true
      +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
      +privateKey: null
      +publicKey: null
      +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1708751829 {#12688
        date: 2024-02-24 06:17:09.0 +01:00
      }
      +apDeletedAt: null
      +apTimeoutAt: null
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697197339 {#12689
        date: 2023-10-13 13:42:19.0 +02:00
      }
      +__isInitialized__: true
       …2
    }
    +image: null
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2956 …}
    +slug: "Is-there-an-iOS-app-that-can-download-YouTube-music"
    +title: "Is there an iOS app that can download YouTube music songs to mp3 like InnerTune can for Android?"
    +url: null
    +body: "Obviously Android is clearly a superior platform, but the only device someone I know has is an iPhone, and I want to know if I can recommend them an app to easily do this for them."
    +type: "article"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: false
    +commentCount: 10
    +favouriteCount: 34
    +score: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +sticky: false
    +lastActive: DateTime @1700149354 {#3055
      date: 2023-11-16 16:42:34.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3005 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3062 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3064 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3066 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3068 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3070 …}
    +children: [
      App\Entity\EntryComment {#1565
        +user: App\Entity\User {#259
          +avatar: null
          +cover: null
          +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
          +username: "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
          +roles: []
          +followersCount: 0
          +homepage: "front"
          +about: null
          +lastActive: DateTime @1727573233 {#267
            date: 2024-09-29 03:27:13.0 +02:00
          }
          +markedForDeletionAt: null
          +fields: null
          +oauthGithubId: null
          +oauthGoogleId: null
          +oauthFacebookId: null
          +oauthKeycloakId: null
          +hideAdult: true
          +showSubscribedUsers: true
          +showSubscribedMagazines: true
          +showSubscribedDomains: true
          +preferredLanguages: []
          +featuredMagazines: null
          +showProfileSubscriptions: true
          +showProfileFollowings: true
          +markNewComments: false
          +notifyOnNewEntry: false
          +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
          +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
          +notifyOnNewPost: false
          +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
          +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: false
          +addMentionsEntries: false
          +addMentionsPosts: true
          +isBanned: false
          +isVerified: false
          +isDeleted: false
          +isBot: false
          +spamProtection: true
          +customCss: null
          +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
          +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
          +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
          +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#231 …}
          +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
          +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#161 …}
          +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#134 …}
          +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#104 …}
          +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#77 …}
          +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#92 …}
          +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1816 …}
          +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1851 …}
          +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1868 …}
          +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1594 …}
          +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1602 …}
          +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1768 …}
          +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1862 …}
          +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1836 …}
          +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1846 …}
          +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1831 …}
          +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2410 …}
          +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1955 …}
          +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2399 …}
          +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1911 …}
          +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1914 …}
          +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1884 …}
          +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1915 …}
          -id: 5129
          -password: "$2y$13$/vteljm8CiRSKlQjOelDZefgFTbMgXd9zTn7W2zbMetE/IgF5X85q"
          -totpSecret: null
          -totpBackupCodes: []
          -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1950 …}
          +apId: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
          +apProfileId: "https://feddit.nl/u/lemmyvore"
          +apPublicUrl: "https://feddit.nl/u/lemmyvore"
          +apFollowersUrl: null
          +apInboxUrl: "https://feddit.nl/inbox"
          +apDomain: "feddit.nl"
          +apPreferredUsername: "lemmyvore"
          +apDiscoverable: true
          +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
          +privateKey: null
          +publicKey: null
          +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1727039733 {#272
            date: 2024-09-22 23:15:33.0 +02:00
          }
          +apDeletedAt: null
          +apTimeoutAt: null
          +visibility: "visible             "
          +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687169920 {#269
            date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
          }
        }
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1563 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1548 …2}
        +image: null
        +parent: null
        +root: null
        +body: "[getvideo.at](https://getvideo.at/)"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 3
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1700388350 {#1574
          date: 2023-11-19 11:05:50.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@JackGreenEarth@lemm.ee"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1564 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1558 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1557 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1621 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1613 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1596 …}
        -id: 129253
        -bodyTs: "'/)':4 'getvideo.at':1,3 'getvideo.at/)':2"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.nl/comment/4621026"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700114679 {#1562
          date: 2023-11-16 07:04:39.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 129253
      }
    ]
    -id: 13365
    -titleTs: "'android':18 'app':5 'download':8 'innertun':15 'io':4 'like':14 'mp3':13 'music':10 'song':11 'youtub':9"
    -bodyTs: "'android':2 'app':30 'clear':4 'devic':11 'easili':32 'iphon':18 'know':14,23 'obvious':1 'platform':7 'recommend':27 'someon':12 'superior':6 'want':21"
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1700176327
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemm.ee/post/15033654"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700089927 {#3026
      date: 2023-11-16 00:12:07.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent {#24289
  +subject: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1563
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1997
      +avatar: null
      +cover: null
      +email: "JackGreenEarth@lemm.ee"
      +username: "@JackGreenEarth@lemm.ee"
      +roles: []
      +followersCount: 0
      +homepage: "front"
      +about: null
      +lastActive: DateTime @1727458492 {#24049
        date: 2024-09-27 19:34:52.0 +02:00
      }
      +markedForDeletionAt: null
      +fields: null
      +oauthGithubId: null
      +oauthGoogleId: null
      +oauthFacebookId: null
      +oauthKeycloakId: null
      +hideAdult: true
      +showSubscribedUsers: true
      +showSubscribedMagazines: true
      +showSubscribedDomains: true
      +preferredLanguages: []
      +featuredMagazines: null
      +showProfileSubscriptions: true
      +showProfileFollowings: true
      +markNewComments: false
      +notifyOnNewEntry: false
      +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
      +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
      +notifyOnNewPost: false
      +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
      +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: false
      +addMentionsEntries: false
      +addMentionsPosts: true
      +isBanned: false
      +isVerified: false
      +isDeleted: false
      +isBot: false
      +spamProtection: true
      +customCss: null
      +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
      +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24052 …}
      +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24054 …}
      +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24056 …}
      +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24058 …}
      +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24060 …}
      +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24062 …}
      +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24064 …}
      +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24066 …}
      +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24068 …}
      +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24070 …}
      +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24072 …}
      +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24074 …}
      +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24076 …}
      +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24078 …}
      +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24080 …}
      +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24082 …}
      +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24084 …}
      +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24086 …}
      +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24088 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24090 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24092 …}
      +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24094 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24096 …}
      +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24098 …}
      +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24100 …}
      +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24102 …}
      -id: 23899
      -password: "$2y$13$/0clvxKSHjIcijOQuN8Hse.VwwqlQLXf.917xP6U2QtEcot2HL8ia"
      -totpSecret: null
      -totpBackupCodes: []
      -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24104 …}
      +apId: "JackGreenEarth@lemm.ee"
      +apProfileId: "https://lemm.ee/u/JackGreenEarth"
      +apPublicUrl: "https://lemm.ee/u/JackGreenEarth"
      +apFollowersUrl: null
      +apInboxUrl: "https://lemm.ee/inbox"
      +apDomain: "lemm.ee"
      +apPreferredUsername: "JackGreenEarth"
      +apDiscoverable: true
      +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
      +privateKey: null
      +publicKey: null
      +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1727473398 {#24050
        date: 2024-09-27 23:43:18.0 +02:00
      }
      +apDeletedAt: null
      +apTimeoutAt: null
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1689117186 {#24051
        date: 2023-07-12 01:13:06.0 +02:00
      }
      +__isInitialized__: true
       …2
    }
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1548
      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#12690 …}
      +name: "piracy@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
      +title: "piracy"
      +description: """
        ##### ⚓ Community devoted to in-depth debate on topics concerning digital piracy, ethical problems, and legal advancements.\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        ### Rules • [Full Version](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
        \n
        **1**. Posts must be related to the discussion of digital piracy\n
        \n
        **2**. Don’t request invites, trade, sell, or self-promote\n
        \n
        **3**. Don’t request or link to specific pirated titles, including DMs\n
        \n
        **4**. Don’t submit low-quality posts, be entitled, or harass others\n
        \n
        **5**. Don’t post questions already answered. READ THE [WIKI](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        [![](https://a.imagem.app/oZoQ1v.png)](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
        ---------------------------------------------------------------------------\n
        \n
        ### Loot, Pillage, & Plunder\n
        \n
        - [📜 Megathread](https://rentry.co/megathread)\n
        - [🪶 FAQ](https://rentry.co/piracy-faq)\n
        - [🪶 ISP Complaints](https://rentry.co/piracy-isp-complaints)\n
        - [🪶 Rules](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        💰 Please help cover server costs.\n
        \n
        [![Ko-Fi](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/4a2f073a-3dd8-492a-942d-72bd929c9f1d.png)](https://ko-fi.com/dbzer0)[![Liberapay](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/eec4659d-39be-4fc9-bc9e-66a96285ea2c.png)](https://liberapay.com/db0/)\n
        \n
        ---
        """
      +rules: null
      +subscriptionsCount: 1
      +entryCount: 826
      +entryCommentCount: 19337
      +postCount: 7
      +postCommentCount: 149
      +isAdult: false
      +customCss: null
      +lastActive: DateTime @1727579107 {#12687
        date: 2024-09-29 03:05:07.944072 UTC (+00:00)
      }
      +markedForDeletionAt: null
      +tags: null
      +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12691 …}
      +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12693 …}
      +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12695 …}
      +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12697 …}
      +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12699 …}
      +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12701 …}
      +bans: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12703 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12705 …}
      +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12707 …}
      +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12709 …}
      +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12711 …}
      +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12713 …}
      -id: 51
      +apId: "piracy@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
      +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/piracy"
      +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/piracy"
      +apFollowersUrl: "https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/piracy/followers"
      +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/inbox"
      +apDomain: "lemmy.dbzer0.com"
      +apPreferredUsername: "piracy"
      +apDiscoverable: true
      +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
      +privateKey: null
      +publicKey: null
      +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1708751829 {#12688
        date: 2024-02-24 06:17:09.0 +01:00
      }
      +apDeletedAt: null
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      +visibility: "visible             "
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697197339 {#12689
        date: 2023-10-13 13:42:19.0 +02:00
      }
      +__isInitialized__: true
       …2
    }
    +image: null
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2956 …}
    +slug: "Is-there-an-iOS-app-that-can-download-YouTube-music"
    +title: "Is there an iOS app that can download YouTube music songs to mp3 like InnerTune can for Android?"
    +url: null
    +body: "Obviously Android is clearly a superior platform, but the only device someone I know has is an iPhone, and I want to know if I can recommend them an app to easily do this for them."
    +type: "article"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: false
    +commentCount: 10
    +favouriteCount: 34
    +score: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +sticky: false
    +lastActive: DateTime @1700149354 {#3055
      date: 2023-11-16 16:42:34.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3005 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3062 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3064 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3066 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3068 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3070 …}
    +children: [
      App\Entity\EntryComment {#1565
        +user: App\Entity\User {#259
          +avatar: null
          +cover: null
          +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
          +username: "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
          +roles: []
          +followersCount: 0
          +homepage: "front"
          +about: null
          +lastActive: DateTime @1727573233 {#267
            date: 2024-09-29 03:27:13.0 +02:00
          }
          +markedForDeletionAt: null
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          +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
          +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
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          +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
          +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: false
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          +isBot: false
          +spamProtection: true
          +customCss: null
          +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
          +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
          +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
          +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#231 …}
          +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
          +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#161 …}
          +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#134 …}
          +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#104 …}
          +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#77 …}
          +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#92 …}
          +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1816 …}
          +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1851 …}
          +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1868 …}
          +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1594 …}
          +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1602 …}
          +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1768 …}
          +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1862 …}
          +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1836 …}
          +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1846 …}
          +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1831 …}
          +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2410 …}
          +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1955 …}
          +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2399 …}
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          +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1914 …}
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          +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1915 …}
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          -totpSecret: null
          -totpBackupCodes: []
          -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1950 …}
          +apId: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
          +apProfileId: "https://feddit.nl/u/lemmyvore"
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          +apDiscoverable: true
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          +privateKey: null
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          +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1727039733 {#272
            date: 2024-09-22 23:15:33.0 +02:00
          }
          +apDeletedAt: null
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          +visibility: "visible             "
          +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687169920 {#269
            date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
          }
        }
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1563 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1548 …2}
        +image: null
        +parent: null
        +root: null
        +body: "[getvideo.at](https://getvideo.at/)"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 3
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1700388350 {#1574
          date: 2023-11-19 11:05:50.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@JackGreenEarth@lemm.ee"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1564 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1558 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1557 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1621 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1613 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1596 …}
        -id: 129253
        -bodyTs: "'/)':4 'getvideo.at':1,3 'getvideo.at/)':2"
        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
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        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700114679 {#1562
          date: 2023-11-16 07:04:39.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 129253
      }
    ]
    -id: 13365
    -titleTs: "'android':18 'app':5 'download':8 'innertun':15 'io':4 'like':14 'mp3':13 'music':10 'song':11 'youtub':9"
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    +cross: false
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    +ranking: 1700176327
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemm.ee/post/15033654"
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700089927 {#3026
      date: 2023-11-16 00:12:07.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +formDest: "entry"
  +showDownvote: true
  -cache: Symfony\Component\Cache\Adapter\TraceableTagAwareAdapter {#600 …}
}
boost App\Twig\Components\BoostComponent 20.0 MiB 0.71 ms
Input props
[
  "subject" => Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1563
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1997
      +avatar: null
      +cover: null
      +email: "JackGreenEarth@lemm.ee"
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        date: 2024-09-27 19:34:52.0 +02:00
      }
      +markedForDeletionAt: null
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      +isBot: false
      +spamProtection: true
      +customCss: null
      +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
      +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24052 …}
      +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24054 …}
      +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24056 …}
      +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24058 …}
      +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24060 …}
      +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24062 …}
      +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24064 …}
      +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24066 …}
      +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24068 …}
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      +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24074 …}
      +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24076 …}
      +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24078 …}
      +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24080 …}
      +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24082 …}
      +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24084 …}
      +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24086 …}
      +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24088 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24090 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24092 …}
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      -totpSecret: null
      -totpBackupCodes: []
      -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24104 …}
      +apId: "JackGreenEarth@lemm.ee"
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        date: 2024-09-27 23:43:18.0 +02:00
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      +apDeletedAt: null
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      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1689117186 {#24051
        date: 2023-07-12 01:13:06.0 +02:00
      }
      +__isInitialized__: true
       …2
    }
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1548
      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#12690 …}
      +name: "piracy@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
      +title: "piracy"
      +description: """
        ##### ⚓ Community devoted to in-depth debate on topics concerning digital piracy, ethical problems, and legal advancements.\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        ### Rules • [Full Version](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
        \n
        **1**. Posts must be related to the discussion of digital piracy\n
        \n
        **2**. Don’t request invites, trade, sell, or self-promote\n
        \n
        **3**. Don’t request or link to specific pirated titles, including DMs\n
        \n
        **4**. Don’t submit low-quality posts, be entitled, or harass others\n
        \n
        **5**. Don’t post questions already answered. READ THE [WIKI](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        [![](https://a.imagem.app/oZoQ1v.png)](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
        ---------------------------------------------------------------------------\n
        \n
        ### Loot, Pillage, & Plunder\n
        \n
        - [📜 Megathread](https://rentry.co/megathread)\n
        - [🪶 FAQ](https://rentry.co/piracy-faq)\n
        - [🪶 ISP Complaints](https://rentry.co/piracy-isp-complaints)\n
        - [🪶 Rules](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        💰 Please help cover server costs.\n
        \n
        [![Ko-Fi](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/4a2f073a-3dd8-492a-942d-72bd929c9f1d.png)](https://ko-fi.com/dbzer0)[![Liberapay](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/eec4659d-39be-4fc9-bc9e-66a96285ea2c.png)](https://liberapay.com/db0/)\n
        \n
        ---
        """
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        date: 2024-09-29 03:05:07.944072 UTC (+00:00)
      }
      +markedForDeletionAt: null
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      +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12691 …}
      +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12693 …}
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      -id: 51
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        date: 2024-02-24 06:17:09.0 +01:00
      }
      +apDeletedAt: null
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        date: 2023-10-13 13:42:19.0 +02:00
      }
      +__isInitialized__: true
       …2
    }
    +image: null
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2956 …}
    +slug: "Is-there-an-iOS-app-that-can-download-YouTube-music"
    +title: "Is there an iOS app that can download YouTube music songs to mp3 like InnerTune can for Android?"
    +url: null
    +body: "Obviously Android is clearly a superior platform, but the only device someone I know has is an iPhone, and I want to know if I can recommend them an app to easily do this for them."
    +type: "article"
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    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: false
    +commentCount: 10
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      date: 2023-11-16 16:42:34.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
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    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3005 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3062 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3064 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3066 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3068 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3070 …}
    +children: [
      App\Entity\EntryComment {#1565
        +user: App\Entity\User {#259
          +avatar: null
          +cover: null
          +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
          +username: "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
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            date: 2024-09-29 03:27:13.0 +02:00
          }
          +markedForDeletionAt: null
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          +spamProtection: true
          +customCss: null
          +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
          +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
          +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
          +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#231 …}
          +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
          +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#161 …}
          +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#134 …}
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          +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1816 …}
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          -totpSecret: null
          -totpBackupCodes: []
          -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1950 …}
          +apId: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
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          +privateKey: null
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          +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1727039733 {#272
            date: 2024-09-22 23:15:33.0 +02:00
          }
          +apDeletedAt: null
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          +visibility: "visible             "
          +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687169920 {#269
            date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
          }
        }
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1563 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1548 …2}
        +image: null
        +parent: null
        +root: null
        +body: "[getvideo.at](https://getvideo.at/)"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 3
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1700388350 {#1574
          date: 2023-11-19 11:05:50.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@JackGreenEarth@lemm.ee"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1564 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1558 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1557 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1621 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1613 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1596 …}
        -id: 129253
        -bodyTs: "'/)':4 'getvideo.at':1,3 'getvideo.at/)':2"
        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
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        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700114679 {#1562
          date: 2023-11-16 07:04:39.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 129253
      }
    ]
    -id: 13365
    -titleTs: "'android':18 'app':5 'download':8 'innertun':15 'io':4 'like':14 'mp3':13 'music':10 'song':11 'youtub':9"
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    +cross: false
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    +ranking: 1700176327
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemm.ee/post/15033654"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700089927 {#3026
      date: 2023-11-16 00:12:07.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\BoostComponent {#24346
  +formDest: "entry"
  +subject: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1563
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1997
      +avatar: null
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      +title: "piracy"
      +description: """
        ##### ⚓ Community devoted to in-depth debate on topics concerning digital piracy, ethical problems, and legal advancements.\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        ### Rules • [Full Version](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
        \n
        **1**. Posts must be related to the discussion of digital piracy\n
        \n
        **2**. Don’t request invites, trade, sell, or self-promote\n
        \n
        **3**. Don’t request or link to specific pirated titles, including DMs\n
        \n
        **4**. Don’t submit low-quality posts, be entitled, or harass others\n
        \n
        **5**. Don’t post questions already answered. READ THE [WIKI](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        [![](https://a.imagem.app/oZoQ1v.png)](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
        ---------------------------------------------------------------------------\n
        \n
        ### Loot, Pillage, & Plunder\n
        \n
        - [📜 Megathread](https://rentry.co/megathread)\n
        - [🪶 FAQ](https://rentry.co/piracy-faq)\n
        - [🪶 ISP Complaints](https://rentry.co/piracy-isp-complaints)\n
        - [🪶 Rules](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        💰 Please help cover server costs.\n
        \n
        [![Ko-Fi](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/4a2f073a-3dd8-492a-942d-72bd929c9f1d.png)](https://ko-fi.com/dbzer0)[![Liberapay](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/eec4659d-39be-4fc9-bc9e-66a96285ea2c.png)](https://liberapay.com/db0/)\n
        \n
        ---
        """
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     …2
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}
entry_comment App\Twig\Components\EntryCommentComponent 22.0 MiB 10.08 ms
Input props
[
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      }
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1548
        +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#12690 …}
        +name: "piracy@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        +title: "piracy"
        +description: """
          ##### ⚓ Community devoted to in-depth debate on topics concerning digital piracy, ethical problems, and legal advancements.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          ### Rules • [Full Version](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
          \n
          **1**. Posts must be related to the discussion of digital piracy\n
          \n
          **2**. Don’t request invites, trade, sell, or self-promote\n
          \n
          **3**. Don’t request or link to specific pirated titles, including DMs\n
          \n
          **4**. Don’t submit low-quality posts, be entitled, or harass others\n
          \n
          **5**. Don’t post questions already answered. READ THE [WIKI](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          [![](https://a.imagem.app/oZoQ1v.png)](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
          ---------------------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ### Loot, Pillage, & Plunder\n
          \n
          - [📜 Megathread](https://rentry.co/megathread)\n
          - [🪶 FAQ](https://rentry.co/piracy-faq)\n
          - [🪶 ISP Complaints](https://rentry.co/piracy-isp-complaints)\n
          - [🪶 Rules](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          💰 Please help cover server costs.\n
          \n
          [![Ko-Fi](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/4a2f073a-3dd8-492a-942d-72bd929c9f1d.png)](https://ko-fi.com/dbzer0)[![Liberapay](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/eec4659d-39be-4fc9-bc9e-66a96285ea2c.png)](https://liberapay.com/db0/)\n
          \n
          ---
          """
        +rules: null
        +subscriptionsCount: 1
        +entryCount: 826
        +entryCommentCount: 19337
        +postCount: 7
        +postCommentCount: 149
        +isAdult: false
        +customCss: null
        +lastActive: DateTime @1727579107 {#12687
          date: 2024-09-29 03:05:07.944072 UTC (+00:00)
        }
        +markedForDeletionAt: null
        +tags: null
        +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12691 …}
        +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12693 …}
        +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12695 …}
        +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12697 …}
        +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12699 …}
        +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12701 …}
        +bans: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12703 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12705 …}
        +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12707 …}
        +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12709 …}
        +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12711 …}
        +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12713 …}
        -id: 51
        +apId: "piracy@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/piracy"
        +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/piracy"
        +apFollowersUrl: "https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/piracy/followers"
        +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/inbox"
        +apDomain: "lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        +apPreferredUsername: "piracy"
        +apDiscoverable: true
        +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
        +privateKey: null
        +publicKey: null
        +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1708751829 {#12688
          date: 2024-02-24 06:17:09.0 +01:00
        }
        +apDeletedAt: null
        +apTimeoutAt: null
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697197339 {#12689
          date: 2023-10-13 13:42:19.0 +02:00
        }
        +__isInitialized__: true
         …2
      }
      +image: null
      +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2956 …}
      +slug: "Is-there-an-iOS-app-that-can-download-YouTube-music"
      +title: "Is there an iOS app that can download YouTube music songs to mp3 like InnerTune can for Android?"
      +url: null
      +body: "Obviously Android is clearly a superior platform, but the only device someone I know has is an iPhone, and I want to know if I can recommend them an app to easily do this for them."
      +type: "article"
      +lang: "en"
      +isOc: false
      +hasEmbed: false
      +commentCount: 10
      +favouriteCount: 34
      +score: 0
      +isAdult: false
      +sticky: false
      +lastActive: DateTime @1700149354 {#3055
        date: 2023-11-16 16:42:34.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +adaAmount: 0
      +tags: null
      +mentions: null
      +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3005 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3062 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3064 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3066 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3068 …}
      +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3070 …}
      +children: [
        App\Entity\EntryComment {#1565}
      ]
      -id: 13365
      -titleTs: "'android':18 'app':5 'download':8 'innertun':15 'io':4 'like':14 'mp3':13 'music':10 'song':11 'youtub':9"
      -bodyTs: "'android':2 'app':30 'clear':4 'devic':11 'easili':32 'iphon':18 'know':14,23 'obvious':1 'platform':7 'recommend':27 'someon':12 'superior':6 'want':21"
      +cross: false
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +ranking: 1700176327
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://lemm.ee/post/15033654"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700089927 {#3026
        date: 2023-11-16 00:12:07.0 +01:00
      }
      +__isInitialized__: true
       …2
    }
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1548 …2}
    +image: null
    +parent: null
    +root: null
    +body: "[getvideo.at](https://getvideo.at/)"
    +lang: "en"
    +isAdult: false
    +favouriteCount: 3
    +score: 0
    +lastActive: DateTime @1700388350 {#1574
      date: 2023-11-19 11:05:50.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +tags: null
    +mentions: [
      "@JackGreenEarth@lemm.ee"
    ]
    +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1564 …}
    +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1558 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1557 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1621 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1613 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1596 …}
    -id: 129253
    -bodyTs: "'/)':4 'getvideo.at':1,3 'getvideo.at/)':2"
    +ranking: 0
    +commentCount: 0
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://feddit.nl/comment/4621026"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700114679 {#1562
      date: 2023-11-16 07:04:39.0 +01:00
    }
    +"title": 129253
  }
  "showEntryTitle" => false
  "dateAsUrl" => true
  "showMagazineName" => false
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\EntryCommentComponent {#24597
  +comment: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1565
    +user: App\Entity\User {#259
      +avatar: null
      +cover: null
      +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
      +username: "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
      +roles: []
      +followersCount: 0
      +homepage: "front"
      +about: null
      +lastActive: DateTime @1727573233 {#267
        date: 2024-09-29 03:27:13.0 +02:00
      }
      +markedForDeletionAt: null
      +fields: null
      +oauthGithubId: null
      +oauthGoogleId: null
      +oauthFacebookId: null
      +oauthKeycloakId: null
      +hideAdult: true
      +showSubscribedUsers: true
      +showSubscribedMagazines: true
      +showSubscribedDomains: true
      +preferredLanguages: []
      +featuredMagazines: null
      +showProfileSubscriptions: true
      +showProfileFollowings: true
      +markNewComments: false
      +notifyOnNewEntry: false
      +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
      +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
      +notifyOnNewPost: false
      +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
      +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: false
      +addMentionsEntries: false
      +addMentionsPosts: true
      +isBanned: false
      +isVerified: false
      +isDeleted: false
      +isBot: false
      +spamProtection: true
      +customCss: null
      +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
      +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
      +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
      +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#231 …}
      +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
      +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#161 …}
      +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#134 …}
      +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#104 …}
      +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#77 …}
      +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#92 …}
      +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1816 …}
      +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1851 …}
      +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1868 …}
      +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1594 …}
      +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1602 …}
      +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1768 …}
      +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1862 …}
      +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1836 …}
      +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1846 …}
      +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1831 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2410 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1955 …}
      +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2399 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1911 …}
      +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1914 …}
      +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1884 …}
      +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1915 …}
      -id: 5129
      -password: "$2y$13$/vteljm8CiRSKlQjOelDZefgFTbMgXd9zTn7W2zbMetE/IgF5X85q"
      -totpSecret: null
      -totpBackupCodes: []
      -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1950 …}
      +apId: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
      +apProfileId: "https://feddit.nl/u/lemmyvore"
      +apPublicUrl: "https://feddit.nl/u/lemmyvore"
      +apFollowersUrl: null
      +apInboxUrl: "https://feddit.nl/inbox"
      +apDomain: "feddit.nl"
      +apPreferredUsername: "lemmyvore"
      +apDiscoverable: true
      +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
      +privateKey: null
      +publicKey: null
      +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1727039733 {#272
        date: 2024-09-22 23:15:33.0 +02:00
      }
      +apDeletedAt: null
      +apTimeoutAt: null
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687169920 {#269
        date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
      }
    }
    +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1563
      +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1997
        +avatar: null
        +cover: null
        +email: "JackGreenEarth@lemm.ee"
        +username: "@JackGreenEarth@lemm.ee"
        +roles: []
        +followersCount: 0
        +homepage: "front"
        +about: null
        +lastActive: DateTime @1727458492 {#24049
          date: 2024-09-27 19:34:52.0 +02:00
        }
        +markedForDeletionAt: null
        +fields: null
        +oauthGithubId: null
        +oauthGoogleId: null
        +oauthFacebookId: null
        +oauthKeycloakId: null
        +hideAdult: true
        +showSubscribedUsers: true
        +showSubscribedMagazines: true
        +showSubscribedDomains: true
        +preferredLanguages: []
        +featuredMagazines: null
        +showProfileSubscriptions: true
        +showProfileFollowings: true
        +markNewComments: false
        +notifyOnNewEntry: false
        +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
        +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
        +notifyOnNewPost: false
        +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
        +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: false
        +addMentionsEntries: false
        +addMentionsPosts: true
        +isBanned: false
        +isVerified: false
        +isDeleted: false
        +isBot: false
        +spamProtection: true
        +customCss: null
        +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
        +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24052 …}
        +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24054 …}
        +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24056 …}
        +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24058 …}
        +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24060 …}
        +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24062 …}
        +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24064 …}
        +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24066 …}
        +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24068 …}
        +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24070 …}
        +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24072 …}
        +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24074 …}
        +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24076 …}
        +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24078 …}
        +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24080 …}
        +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24082 …}
        +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24084 …}
        +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24086 …}
        +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24088 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24090 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24092 …}
        +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24094 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24096 …}
        +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24098 …}
        +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24100 …}
        +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24102 …}
        -id: 23899
        -password: "$2y$13$/0clvxKSHjIcijOQuN8Hse.VwwqlQLXf.917xP6U2QtEcot2HL8ia"
        -totpSecret: null
        -totpBackupCodes: []
        -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24104 …}
        +apId: "JackGreenEarth@lemm.ee"
        +apProfileId: "https://lemm.ee/u/JackGreenEarth"
        +apPublicUrl: "https://lemm.ee/u/JackGreenEarth"
        +apFollowersUrl: null
        +apInboxUrl: "https://lemm.ee/inbox"
        +apDomain: "lemm.ee"
        +apPreferredUsername: "JackGreenEarth"
        +apDiscoverable: true
        +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
        +privateKey: null
        +publicKey: null
        +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1727473398 {#24050
          date: 2024-09-27 23:43:18.0 +02:00
        }
        +apDeletedAt: null
        +apTimeoutAt: null
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1689117186 {#24051
          date: 2023-07-12 01:13:06.0 +02:00
        }
        +__isInitialized__: true
         …2
      }
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1548
        +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#12690 …}
        +name: "piracy@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        +title: "piracy"
        +description: """
          ##### ⚓ Community devoted to in-depth debate on topics concerning digital piracy, ethical problems, and legal advancements.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          ### Rules • [Full Version](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
          \n
          **1**. Posts must be related to the discussion of digital piracy\n
          \n
          **2**. Don’t request invites, trade, sell, or self-promote\n
          \n
          **3**. Don’t request or link to specific pirated titles, including DMs\n
          \n
          **4**. Don’t submit low-quality posts, be entitled, or harass others\n
          \n
          **5**. Don’t post questions already answered. READ THE [WIKI](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          [![](https://a.imagem.app/oZoQ1v.png)](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
          ---------------------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ### Loot, Pillage, & Plunder\n
          \n
          - [📜 Megathread](https://rentry.co/megathread)\n
          - [🪶 FAQ](https://rentry.co/piracy-faq)\n
          - [🪶 ISP Complaints](https://rentry.co/piracy-isp-complaints)\n
          - [🪶 Rules](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          💰 Please help cover server costs.\n
          \n
          [![Ko-Fi](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/4a2f073a-3dd8-492a-942d-72bd929c9f1d.png)](https://ko-fi.com/dbzer0)[![Liberapay](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/eec4659d-39be-4fc9-bc9e-66a96285ea2c.png)](https://liberapay.com/db0/)\n
          \n
          ---
          """
        +rules: null
        +subscriptionsCount: 1
        +entryCount: 826
        +entryCommentCount: 19337
        +postCount: 7
        +postCommentCount: 149
        +isAdult: false
        +customCss: null
        +lastActive: DateTime @1727579107 {#12687
          date: 2024-09-29 03:05:07.944072 UTC (+00:00)
        }
        +markedForDeletionAt: null
        +tags: null
        +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12691 …}
        +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12693 …}
        +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12695 …}
        +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12697 …}
        +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12699 …}
        +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12701 …}
        +bans: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12703 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12705 …}
        +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12707 …}
        +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12709 …}
        +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12711 …}
        +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12713 …}
        -id: 51
        +apId: "piracy@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/piracy"
        +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/piracy"
        +apFollowersUrl: "https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/piracy/followers"
        +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/inbox"
        +apDomain: "lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        +apPreferredUsername: "piracy"
        +apDiscoverable: true
        +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
        +privateKey: null
        +publicKey: null
        +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1708751829 {#12688
          date: 2024-02-24 06:17:09.0 +01:00
        }
        +apDeletedAt: null
        +apTimeoutAt: null
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697197339 {#12689
          date: 2023-10-13 13:42:19.0 +02:00
        }
        +__isInitialized__: true
         …2
      }
      +image: null
      +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2956 …}
      +slug: "Is-there-an-iOS-app-that-can-download-YouTube-music"
      +title: "Is there an iOS app that can download YouTube music songs to mp3 like InnerTune can for Android?"
      +url: null
      +body: "Obviously Android is clearly a superior platform, but the only device someone I know has is an iPhone, and I want to know if I can recommend them an app to easily do this for them."
      +type: "article"
      +lang: "en"
      +isOc: false
      +hasEmbed: false
      +commentCount: 10
      +favouriteCount: 34
      +score: 0
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      +sticky: false
      +lastActive: DateTime @1700149354 {#3055
        date: 2023-11-16 16:42:34.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +adaAmount: 0
      +tags: null
      +mentions: null
      +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3005 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3062 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3064 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3066 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3068 …}
      +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3070 …}
      +children: [
        App\Entity\EntryComment {#1565}
      ]
      -id: 13365
      -titleTs: "'android':18 'app':5 'download':8 'innertun':15 'io':4 'like':14 'mp3':13 'music':10 'song':11 'youtub':9"
      -bodyTs: "'android':2 'app':30 'clear':4 'devic':11 'easili':32 'iphon':18 'know':14,23 'obvious':1 'platform':7 'recommend':27 'someon':12 'superior':6 'want':21"
      +cross: false
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +ranking: 1700176327
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://lemm.ee/post/15033654"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700089927 {#3026
        date: 2023-11-16 00:12:07.0 +01:00
      }
      +__isInitialized__: true
       …2
    }
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1548 …2}
    +image: null
    +parent: null
    +root: null
    +body: "[getvideo.at](https://getvideo.at/)"
    +lang: "en"
    +isAdult: false
    +favouriteCount: 3
    +score: 0
    +lastActive: DateTime @1700388350 {#1574
      date: 2023-11-19 11:05:50.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +tags: null
    +mentions: [
      "@JackGreenEarth@lemm.ee"
    ]
    +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1564 …}
    +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1558 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1557 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1621 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1613 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1596 …}
    -id: 129253
    -bodyTs: "'/)':4 'getvideo.at':1,3 'getvideo.at/)':2"
    +ranking: 0
    +commentCount: 0
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://feddit.nl/comment/4621026"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700114679 {#1562
      date: 2023-11-16 07:04:39.0 +01:00
    }
    +"title": 129253
  }
  +showMagazineName: false
  +showEntryTitle: false
  +showNested: false
  +level: 1
  +canSeeTrash: false
  +dateAsUrl: true
  -requestStack: Symfony\Component\HttpFoundation\RequestStack {#1328 …}
  -authorizationChecker: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\AuthorizationChecker {#931 …}
}
user_inline App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent 20.0 MiB 0.24 ms
Input props
[
  "user" => App\Entity\User {#259
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +username: "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1727573233 {#267
      date: 2024-09-29 03:27:13.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: true
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: false
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
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    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#231 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#161 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#134 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#104 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#77 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#92 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1816 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1851 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1868 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1594 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1602 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1768 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1862 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1836 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1846 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1831 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2410 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1955 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2399 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1911 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1914 …}
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    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1915 …}
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    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1950 …}
    +apId: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +apProfileId: "https://feddit.nl/u/lemmyvore"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://feddit.nl/u/lemmyvore"
    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://feddit.nl/inbox"
    +apDomain: "feddit.nl"
    +apPreferredUsername: "lemmyvore"
    +apDiscoverable: true
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    +privateKey: null
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    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1727039733 {#272
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    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687169920 {#269
      date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  "showAvatar" => false
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent {#24642
  +user: App\Entity\User {#259
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +username: "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1727573233 {#267
      date: 2024-09-29 03:27:13.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: true
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: false
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
    +isVerified: false
    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#231 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#161 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#134 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#104 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#77 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#92 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1816 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1851 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1868 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1594 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1602 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1768 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1862 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1836 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1846 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1831 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2410 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1955 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2399 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1911 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1914 …}
    +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1884 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1915 …}
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    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1950 …}
    +apId: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +apProfileId: "https://feddit.nl/u/lemmyvore"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://feddit.nl/u/lemmyvore"
    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://feddit.nl/inbox"
    +apDomain: "feddit.nl"
    +apPreferredUsername: "lemmyvore"
    +apDiscoverable: true
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    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1727039733 {#272
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    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
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    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687169920 {#269
      date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  +showAvatar: false
}
date App\Twig\Components\DateComponent 20.0 MiB 0.25 ms
Input props
[
  "date" => DateTimeImmutable @1700114679 {#1562
    date: 2023-11-16 07:04:39.0 +01:00
  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateComponent {#24698
  +date: DateTimeImmutable @1700114679 {#1562
    date: 2023-11-16 07:04:39.0 +01:00
  }
}
date_edited App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent 20.0 MiB 0.14 ms
Input props
[
  "createdAt" => DateTimeImmutable @1700114679 {#1562
    date: 2023-11-16 07:04:39.0 +01:00
  }
  "editedAt" => null
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent {#24752
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700114679 {#1562
    date: 2023-11-16 07:04:39.0 +01:00
  }
  +editedAt: null
}
user_avatar App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent 20.0 MiB 0.19 ms
Input props
[
  "user" => App\Entity\User {#259
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +username: "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1727573233 {#267
      date: 2024-09-29 03:27:13.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: true
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: false
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
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    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#231 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#161 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#134 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#104 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#77 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#92 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1816 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1851 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1868 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1594 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1602 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1768 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1862 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1836 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1846 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1831 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2410 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1955 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2399 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1911 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1914 …}
    +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1884 …}
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    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1950 …}
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    +apInboxUrl: "https://feddit.nl/inbox"
    +apDomain: "feddit.nl"
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    +privateKey: null
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    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1727039733 {#272
      date: 2024-09-22 23:15:33.0 +02:00
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    +apDeletedAt: null
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    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687169920 {#269
      date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  "width" => 40
  "height" => 40
  "asLink" => true
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent {#24806
  +width: 40
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  +user: App\Entity\User {#259
    +avatar: null
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    +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
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    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1727573233 {#267
      date: 2024-09-29 03:27:13.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
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    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
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    +featuredMagazines: null
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    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#231 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#161 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#134 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#104 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#77 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#92 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1816 …}
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    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1602 …}
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    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1862 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1836 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1846 …}
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    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2410 …}
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    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1950 …}
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    +apDeletedAt: null
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      date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  +asLink: true
}
vote App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent 20.0 MiB 0.58 ms
Input props
[
  "subject" => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1565
    +user: App\Entity\User {#259
      +avatar: null
      +cover: null
      +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
      +username: "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
      +roles: []
      +followersCount: 0
      +homepage: "front"
      +about: null
      +lastActive: DateTime @1727573233 {#267
        date: 2024-09-29 03:27:13.0 +02:00
      }
      +markedForDeletionAt: null
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      +addMentionsEntries: false
      +addMentionsPosts: true
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      +isBot: false
      +spamProtection: true
      +customCss: null
      +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
      +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
      +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
      +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#231 …}
      +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
      +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#161 …}
      +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#134 …}
      +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#104 …}
      +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#77 …}
      +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#92 …}
      +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1816 …}
      +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1851 …}
      +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1868 …}
      +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1594 …}
      +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1602 …}
      +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1768 …}
      +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1862 …}
      +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1836 …}
      +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1846 …}
      +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1831 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2410 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1955 …}
      +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2399 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1911 …}
      +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1914 …}
      +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1884 …}
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      -totpSecret: null
      -totpBackupCodes: []
      -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1950 …}
      +apId: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
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      +apPublicUrl: "https://feddit.nl/u/lemmyvore"
      +apFollowersUrl: null
      +apInboxUrl: "https://feddit.nl/inbox"
      +apDomain: "feddit.nl"
      +apPreferredUsername: "lemmyvore"
      +apDiscoverable: true
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      +privateKey: null
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      +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1727039733 {#272
        date: 2024-09-22 23:15:33.0 +02:00
      }
      +apDeletedAt: null
      +apTimeoutAt: null
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687169920 {#269
        date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
      }
    }
    +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1563
      +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1997
        +avatar: null
        +cover: null
        +email: "JackGreenEarth@lemm.ee"
        +username: "@JackGreenEarth@lemm.ee"
        +roles: []
        +followersCount: 0
        +homepage: "front"
        +about: null
        +lastActive: DateTime @1727458492 {#24049
          date: 2024-09-27 19:34:52.0 +02:00
        }
        +markedForDeletionAt: null
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        +spamProtection: true
        +customCss: null
        +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
        +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24052 …}
        +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24054 …}
        +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24056 …}
        +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24058 …}
        +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24060 …}
        +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24062 …}
        +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24064 …}
        +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24066 …}
        +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24068 …}
        +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24070 …}
        +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24072 …}
        +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24074 …}
        +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24076 …}
        +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24078 …}
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        +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24082 …}
        +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24084 …}
        +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24086 …}
        +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24088 …}
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      }
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        +title: "piracy"
        +description: """
          ##### ⚓ Community devoted to in-depth debate on topics concerning digital piracy, ethical problems, and legal advancements.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          ### Rules • [Full Version](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
          \n
          **1**. Posts must be related to the discussion of digital piracy\n
          \n
          **2**. Don’t request invites, trade, sell, or self-promote\n
          \n
          **3**. Don’t request or link to specific pirated titles, including DMs\n
          \n
          **4**. Don’t submit low-quality posts, be entitled, or harass others\n
          \n
          **5**. Don’t post questions already answered. READ THE [WIKI](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          [![](https://a.imagem.app/oZoQ1v.png)](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
          ---------------------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ### Loot, Pillage, & Plunder\n
          \n
          - [📜 Megathread](https://rentry.co/megathread)\n
          - [🪶 FAQ](https://rentry.co/piracy-faq)\n
          - [🪶 ISP Complaints](https://rentry.co/piracy-isp-complaints)\n
          - [🪶 Rules](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          💰 Please help cover server costs.\n
          \n
          [![Ko-Fi](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/4a2f073a-3dd8-492a-942d-72bd929c9f1d.png)](https://ko-fi.com/dbzer0)[![Liberapay](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/eec4659d-39be-4fc9-bc9e-66a96285ea2c.png)](https://liberapay.com/db0/)\n
          \n
          ---
          """
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]
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[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent {#24877
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      }
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1548
        +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#12690 …}
        +name: "piracy@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        +title: "piracy"
        +description: """
          ##### ⚓ Community devoted to in-depth debate on topics concerning digital piracy, ethical problems, and legal advancements.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          ### Rules • [Full Version](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
          \n
          **1**. Posts must be related to the discussion of digital piracy\n
          \n
          **2**. Don’t request invites, trade, sell, or self-promote\n
          \n
          **3**. Don’t request or link to specific pirated titles, including DMs\n
          \n
          **4**. Don’t submit low-quality posts, be entitled, or harass others\n
          \n
          **5**. Don’t post questions already answered. READ THE [WIKI](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          [![](https://a.imagem.app/oZoQ1v.png)](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
          ---------------------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ### Loot, Pillage, & Plunder\n
          \n
          - [📜 Megathread](https://rentry.co/megathread)\n
          - [🪶 FAQ](https://rentry.co/piracy-faq)\n
          - [🪶 ISP Complaints](https://rentry.co/piracy-isp-complaints)\n
          - [🪶 Rules](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          💰 Please help cover server costs.\n
          \n
          [![Ko-Fi](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/4a2f073a-3dd8-492a-942d-72bd929c9f1d.png)](https://ko-fi.com/dbzer0)[![Liberapay](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/eec4659d-39be-4fc9-bc9e-66a96285ea2c.png)](https://liberapay.com/db0/)\n
          \n
          ---
          """
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      }
      +image: null
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      +title: "Is there an iOS app that can download YouTube music songs to mp3 like InnerTune can for Android?"
      +url: null
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    }
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    +tags: null
    +mentions: [
      "@JackGreenEarth@lemm.ee"
    ]
    +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1564 …}
    +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1558 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1557 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1621 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1613 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1596 …}
    -id: 129253
    -bodyTs: "'/)':4 'getvideo.at':1,3 'getvideo.at/)':2"
    +ranking: 0
    +commentCount: 0
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://feddit.nl/comment/4621026"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700114679 {#1562
      date: 2023-11-16 07:04:39.0 +01:00
    }
    +"title": 129253
  }
  +formDest: "entry_comment"
  +showDownvote: true
  -cache: Symfony\Component\Cache\Adapter\TraceableTagAwareAdapter {#600 …}
}
boost App\Twig\Components\BoostComponent 22.0 MiB 3.36 ms
Input props
[
  "subject" => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1565
    +user: App\Entity\User {#259
      +avatar: null
      +cover: null
      +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
      +username: "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
      +roles: []
      +followersCount: 0
      +homepage: "front"
      +about: null
      +lastActive: DateTime @1727573233 {#267
        date: 2024-09-29 03:27:13.0 +02:00
      }
      +markedForDeletionAt: null
      +fields: null
      +oauthGithubId: null
      +oauthGoogleId: null
      +oauthFacebookId: null
      +oauthKeycloakId: null
      +hideAdult: true
      +showSubscribedUsers: true
      +showSubscribedMagazines: true
      +showSubscribedDomains: true
      +preferredLanguages: []
      +featuredMagazines: null
      +showProfileSubscriptions: true
      +showProfileFollowings: true
      +markNewComments: false
      +notifyOnNewEntry: false
      +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
      +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
      +notifyOnNewPost: false
      +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
      +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: false
      +addMentionsEntries: false
      +addMentionsPosts: true
      +isBanned: false
      +isVerified: false
      +isDeleted: false
      +isBot: false
      +spamProtection: true
      +customCss: null
      +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
      +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
      +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
      +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#231 …}
      +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
      +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#161 …}
      +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#134 …}
      +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#104 …}
      +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#77 …}
      +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#92 …}
      +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1816 …}
      +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1851 …}
      +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1868 …}
      +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1594 …}
      +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1602 …}
      +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1768 …}
      +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1862 …}
      +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1836 …}
      +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1846 …}
      +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1831 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2410 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1955 …}
      +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2399 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1911 …}
      +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1914 …}
      +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1884 …}
      +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1915 …}
      -id: 5129
      -password: "$2y$13$/vteljm8CiRSKlQjOelDZefgFTbMgXd9zTn7W2zbMetE/IgF5X85q"
      -totpSecret: null
      -totpBackupCodes: []
      -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1950 …}
      +apId: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
      +apProfileId: "https://feddit.nl/u/lemmyvore"
      +apPublicUrl: "https://feddit.nl/u/lemmyvore"
      +apFollowersUrl: null
      +apInboxUrl: "https://feddit.nl/inbox"
      +apDomain: "feddit.nl"
      +apPreferredUsername: "lemmyvore"
      +apDiscoverable: true
      +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
      +privateKey: null
      +publicKey: null
      +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1727039733 {#272
        date: 2024-09-22 23:15:33.0 +02:00
      }
      +apDeletedAt: null
      +apTimeoutAt: null
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687169920 {#269
        date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
      }
    }
    +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1563
      +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1997
        +avatar: null
        +cover: null
        +email: "JackGreenEarth@lemm.ee"
        +username: "@JackGreenEarth@lemm.ee"
        +roles: []
        +followersCount: 0
        +homepage: "front"
        +about: null
        +lastActive: DateTime @1727458492 {#24049
          date: 2024-09-27 19:34:52.0 +02:00
        }
        +markedForDeletionAt: null
        +fields: null
        +oauthGithubId: null
        +oauthGoogleId: null
        +oauthFacebookId: null
        +oauthKeycloakId: null
        +hideAdult: true
        +showSubscribedUsers: true
        +showSubscribedMagazines: true
        +showSubscribedDomains: true
        +preferredLanguages: []
        +featuredMagazines: null
        +showProfileSubscriptions: true
        +showProfileFollowings: true
        +markNewComments: false
        +notifyOnNewEntry: false
        +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
        +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
        +notifyOnNewPost: false
        +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
        +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: false
        +addMentionsEntries: false
        +addMentionsPosts: true
        +isBanned: false
        +isVerified: false
        +isDeleted: false
        +isBot: false
        +spamProtection: true
        +customCss: null
        +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
        +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24052 …}
        +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24054 …}
        +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24056 …}
        +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24058 …}
        +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24060 …}
        +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24062 …}
        +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24064 …}
        +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24066 …}
        +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24068 …}
        +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24070 …}
        +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24072 …}
        +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24074 …}
        +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24076 …}
        +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24078 …}
        +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24080 …}
        +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24082 …}
        +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24084 …}
        +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24086 …}
        +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24088 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24090 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24092 …}
        +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24094 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24096 …}
        +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24098 …}
        +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24100 …}
        +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24102 …}
        -id: 23899
        -password: "$2y$13$/0clvxKSHjIcijOQuN8Hse.VwwqlQLXf.917xP6U2QtEcot2HL8ia"
        -totpSecret: null
        -totpBackupCodes: []
        -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24104 …}
        +apId: "JackGreenEarth@lemm.ee"
        +apProfileId: "https://lemm.ee/u/JackGreenEarth"
        +apPublicUrl: "https://lemm.ee/u/JackGreenEarth"
        +apFollowersUrl: null
        +apInboxUrl: "https://lemm.ee/inbox"
        +apDomain: "lemm.ee"
        +apPreferredUsername: "JackGreenEarth"
        +apDiscoverable: true
        +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
        +privateKey: null
        +publicKey: null
        +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1727473398 {#24050
          date: 2024-09-27 23:43:18.0 +02:00
        }
        +apDeletedAt: null
        +apTimeoutAt: null
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1689117186 {#24051
          date: 2023-07-12 01:13:06.0 +02:00
        }
        +__isInitialized__: true
         …2
      }
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1548
        +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#12690 …}
        +name: "piracy@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        +title: "piracy"
        +description: """
          ##### ⚓ Community devoted to in-depth debate on topics concerning digital piracy, ethical problems, and legal advancements.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          ### Rules • [Full Version](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
          \n
          **1**. Posts must be related to the discussion of digital piracy\n
          \n
          **2**. Don’t request invites, trade, sell, or self-promote\n
          \n
          **3**. Don’t request or link to specific pirated titles, including DMs\n
          \n
          **4**. Don’t submit low-quality posts, be entitled, or harass others\n
          \n
          **5**. Don’t post questions already answered. READ THE [WIKI](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          [![](https://a.imagem.app/oZoQ1v.png)](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
          ---------------------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ### Loot, Pillage, & Plunder\n
          \n
          - [📜 Megathread](https://rentry.co/megathread)\n
          - [🪶 FAQ](https://rentry.co/piracy-faq)\n
          - [🪶 ISP Complaints](https://rentry.co/piracy-isp-complaints)\n
          - [🪶 Rules](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          💰 Please help cover server costs.\n
          \n
          [![Ko-Fi](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/4a2f073a-3dd8-492a-942d-72bd929c9f1d.png)](https://ko-fi.com/dbzer0)[![Liberapay](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/eec4659d-39be-4fc9-bc9e-66a96285ea2c.png)](https://liberapay.com/db0/)\n
          \n
          ---
          """
        +rules: null
        +subscriptionsCount: 1
        +entryCount: 826
        +entryCommentCount: 19337
        +postCount: 7
        +postCommentCount: 149
        +isAdult: false
        +customCss: null
        +lastActive: DateTime @1727579107 {#12687
          date: 2024-09-29 03:05:07.944072 UTC (+00:00)
        }
        +markedForDeletionAt: null
        +tags: null
        +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12691 …}
        +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12693 …}
        +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12695 …}
        +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12697 …}
        +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12699 …}
        +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12701 …}
        +bans: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12703 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12705 …}
        +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12707 …}
        +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12709 …}
        +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12711 …}
        +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#12713 …}
        -id: 51
        +apId: "piracy@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/piracy"
        +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/piracy"
        +apFollowersUrl: "https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/piracy/followers"
        +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/inbox"
        +apDomain: "lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        +apPreferredUsername: "piracy"
        +apDiscoverable: true
        +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
        +privateKey: null
        +publicKey: null
        +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1708751829 {#12688
          date: 2024-02-24 06:17:09.0 +01:00
        }
        +apDeletedAt: null
        +apTimeoutAt: null
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697197339 {#12689
          date: 2023-10-13 13:42:19.0 +02:00
        }
        +__isInitialized__: true
         …2
      }
      +image: null
      +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2956 …}
      +slug: "Is-there-an-iOS-app-that-can-download-YouTube-music"
      +title: "Is there an iOS app that can download YouTube music songs to mp3 like InnerTune can for Android?"
      +url: null
      +body: "Obviously Android is clearly a superior platform, but the only device someone I know has is an iPhone, and I want to know if I can recommend them an app to easily do this for them."
      +type: "article"
      +lang: "en"
      +isOc: false
      +hasEmbed: false
      +commentCount: 10
      +favouriteCount: 34
      +score: 0
      +isAdult: false
      +sticky: false
      +lastActive: DateTime @1700149354 {#3055
        date: 2023-11-16 16:42:34.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +adaAmount: 0
      +tags: null
      +mentions: null
      +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3005 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3062 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3064 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3066 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3068 …}
      +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3070 …}
      +children: [
        App\Entity\EntryComment {#1565}
      ]
      -id: 13365
      -titleTs: "'android':18 'app':5 'download':8 'innertun':15 'io':4 'like':14 'mp3':13 'music':10 'song':11 'youtub':9"
      -bodyTs: "'android':2 'app':30 'clear':4 'devic':11 'easili':32 'iphon':18 'know':14,23 'obvious':1 'platform':7 'recommend':27 'someon':12 'superior':6 'want':21"
      +cross: false
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +ranking: 1700176327
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://lemm.ee/post/15033654"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700089927 {#3026
        date: 2023-11-16 00:12:07.0 +01:00
      }
      +__isInitialized__: true
       …2
    }
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1548 …2}
    +image: null
    +parent: null
    +root: null
    +body: "[getvideo.at](https://getvideo.at/)"
    +lang: "en"
    +isAdult: false
    +favouriteCount: 3
    +score: 0
    +lastActive: DateTime @1700388350 {#1574
      date: 2023-11-19 11:05:50.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +tags: null
    +mentions: [
      "@JackGreenEarth@lemm.ee"
    ]
    +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1564 …}
    +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1558 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1557 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1621 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1613 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1596 …}
    -id: 129253
    -bodyTs: "'/)':4 'getvideo.at':1,3 'getvideo.at/)':2"
    +ranking: 0
    +commentCount: 0
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://feddit.nl/comment/4621026"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700114679 {#1562
      date: 2023-11-16 07:04:39.0 +01:00
    }
    +"title": 129253
  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\BoostComponent {#24934
  +formDest: "entry_comment"
  +subject: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1565
    +user: App\Entity\User {#259
      +avatar: null
      +cover: null
      +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
      +username: "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
      +roles: []
      +followersCount: 0
      +homepage: "front"
      +about: null
      +lastActive: DateTime @1727573233 {#267
        date: 2024-09-29 03:27:13.0 +02:00
      }
      +markedForDeletionAt: null
      +fields: null
      +oauthGithubId: null
      +oauthGoogleId: null
      +oauthFacebookId: null
      +oauthKeycloakId: null
      +hideAdult: true
      +showSubscribedUsers: true
      +showSubscribedMagazines: true
      +showSubscribedDomains: true
      +preferredLanguages: []
      +featuredMagazines: null
      +showProfileSubscriptions: true
      +showProfileFollowings: true
      +markNewComments: false
      +notifyOnNewEntry: false
      +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
      +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
      +notifyOnNewPost: false
      +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
      +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: false
      +addMentionsEntries: false
      +addMentionsPosts: true
      +isBanned: false
      +isVerified: false
      +isDeleted: false
      +isBot: false
      +spamProtection: true
      +customCss: null
      +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
      +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
      +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
      +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#231 …}
      +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#189 …}
      +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#161 …}
      +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#134 …}
      +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#104 …}
      +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#77 …}
      +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#92 …}
      +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1816 …}
      +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1851 …}
      +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1868 …}
      +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1594 …}
      +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1602 …}
      +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1768 …}
      +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1862 …}
      +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1836 …}
      +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1846 …}
      +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1831 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2410 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1955 …}
      +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2399 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1911 …}
      +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1914 …}
      +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1884 …}
      +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1915 …}
      -id: 5129
      -password: "$2y$13$/vteljm8CiRSKlQjOelDZefgFTbMgXd9zTn7W2zbMetE/IgF5X85q"
      -totpSecret: null
      -totpBackupCodes: []
      -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1950 …}
      +apId: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
      +apProfileId: "https://feddit.nl/u/lemmyvore"
      +apPublicUrl: "https://feddit.nl/u/lemmyvore"
      +apFollowersUrl: null
      +apInboxUrl: "https://feddit.nl/inbox"
      +apDomain: "feddit.nl"
      +apPreferredUsername: "lemmyvore"
      +apDiscoverable: true
      +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
      +privateKey: null
      +publicKey: null
      +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1727039733 {#272
        date: 2024-09-22 23:15:33.0 +02:00
      }
      +apDeletedAt: null
      +apTimeoutAt: null
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687169920 {#269
        date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
      }
    }
    +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1563
      +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1997
        +avatar: null
        +cover: null
        +email: "JackGreenEarth@lemm.ee"
        +username: "@JackGreenEarth@lemm.ee"
        +roles: []
        +followersCount: 0
        +homepage: "front"
        +about: null
        +lastActive: DateTime @1727458492 {#24049
          date: 2024-09-27 19:34:52.0 +02:00
        }
        +markedForDeletionAt: null
        +fields: null
        +oauthGithubId: null
        +oauthGoogleId: null
        +oauthFacebookId: null
        +oauthKeycloakId: null
        +hideAdult: true
        +showSubscribedUsers: true
        +showSubscribedMagazines: true
        +showSubscribedDomains: true
        +preferredLanguages: []
        +featuredMagazines: null
        +showProfileSubscriptions: true
        +showProfileFollowings: true
        +markNewComments: false
        +notifyOnNewEntry: false
        +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
        +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
        +notifyOnNewPost: false
        +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
        +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: false
        +addMentionsEntries: false
        +addMentionsPosts: true
        +isBanned: false
        +isVerified: false
        +isDeleted: false
        +isBot: false
        +spamProtection: true
        +customCss: null
        +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
        +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24052 …}
        +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24054 …}
        +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24056 …}
        +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24058 …}
        +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24060 …}
        +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24062 …}
        +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24064 …}
        +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24066 …}
        +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24068 …}
        +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24070 …}
        +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24072 …}
        +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24074 …}
        +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24076 …}
        +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24078 …}
        +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24080 …}
        +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24082 …}
        +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24084 …}
        +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24086 …}
        +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24088 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24090 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24092 …}
        +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24094 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24096 …}
        +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24098 …}
        +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24100 …}
        +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#24102 …}
        -id: 23899
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      }
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1548
        +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#12690 …}
        +name: "piracy@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        +title: "piracy"
        +description: """
          ##### ⚓ Community devoted to in-depth debate on topics concerning digital piracy, ethical problems, and legal advancements.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          ### Rules • [Full Version](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
          \n
          **1**. Posts must be related to the discussion of digital piracy\n
          \n
          **2**. Don’t request invites, trade, sell, or self-promote\n
          \n
          **3**. Don’t request or link to specific pirated titles, including DMs\n
          \n
          **4**. Don’t submit low-quality posts, be entitled, or harass others\n
          \n
          **5**. Don’t post questions already answered. READ THE [WIKI](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          [![](https://a.imagem.app/oZoQ1v.png)](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10901)\n
          ---------------------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ### Loot, Pillage, & Plunder\n
          \n
          - [📜 Megathread](https://rentry.co/megathread)\n
          - [🪶 FAQ](https://rentry.co/piracy-faq)\n
          - [🪶 ISP Complaints](https://rentry.co/piracy-isp-complaints)\n
          - [🪶 Rules](https://rentry.co/piracy-rules)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          💰 Please help cover server costs.\n
          \n
          [![Ko-Fi](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/4a2f073a-3dd8-492a-942d-72bd929c9f1d.png)](https://ko-fi.com/dbzer0)[![Liberapay](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/eec4659d-39be-4fc9-bc9e-66a96285ea2c.png)](https://liberapay.com/db0/)\n
          \n
          ---
          """
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      +title: "Is there an iOS app that can download YouTube music songs to mp3 like InnerTune can for Android?"
      +url: null
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      -id: 13365
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entry App\Twig\Components\EntryComponent 22.0 MiB 7.11 ms
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      +description: """
        From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
        \n
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        \n
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        \n
        ### Rules\n
        \n
        - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
        - No misinformation\n
        - No NSFW content\n
        - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
        \n
        ### Related Communities\n
        \n
        - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
        - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
        - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
        - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
        \n
        Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
        """
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      \n
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        \n
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        - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
        - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
        - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
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        Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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      Got me thinking, cuz I’ve done my own solutions (not the popular ones, like OMV and the likes) and they work just fine, I really have no trouble managing them through the terminal, but I thought about other people (maybe people that like more managing things though a web UI) and I was like “is there something like this 🤔?”.\n
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user_inline App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent 22.0 MiB 0.63 ms
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Component
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[]
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App\Twig\Components\DateComponent {#25365
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date_edited App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent 22.0 MiB 0.12 ms
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magazine_inline App\Twig\Components\MagazineInlineComponent 22.0 MiB 0.18 ms
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vote App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent 22.0 MiB 0.45 ms
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boost App\Twig\Components\BoostComponent 22.0 MiB 0.87 ms
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entry_comment App\Twig\Components\EntryCommentComponent 22.0 MiB 8.51 ms
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      }
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585
        +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#4079 …}
        +name: "linux@lemmy.ml"
        +title: "linux"
        +description: """
          From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
          \n
          Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).\n
          \n
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          \n
          ### Rules\n
          \n
          - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
          - No misinformation\n
          - No NSFW content\n
          - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
          \n
          ### Related Communities\n
          \n
          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
          - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
          \n
          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
          """
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        +markedForDeletionAt: null
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      +title: "Is there a "universal" web UI for custom Linux NASes?"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        Got me thinking, cuz I’ve done my own solutions (not the popular ones, like OMV and the likes) and they work just fine, I really have no trouble managing them through the terminal, but I thought about other people (maybe people that like more managing things though a web UI) and I was like “is there something like this 🤔?”.\n
        \n
        The other reason I’m asking is because I also freelance as IT solution/support and sometimes I do custom solutions for clients, like a NAS, and I would like to ease things a little user side. Sure, that will cut down on my fees, but I like client satisfaction and I think they will appreciate it ☺️.
        """
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       …2
    }
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …2}
    +image: null
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    +body: "There’s things like Unraid and Synology that have their own UI. But they have some limitations, for example Synology requires one of their devices, doesn’t run on generic ones."
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    +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2211 …}
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user_inline App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent 22.0 MiB 0.18 ms
Input props
[
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Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent {#25882
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    +markedForDeletionAt: null
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    +customCss: null
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    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#246 …}
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}
date App\Twig\Components\DateComponent 22.0 MiB 0.17 ms
Input props
[
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    date: 2023-11-20 11:13:54.0 +01:00
  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateComponent {#25938
  +date: DateTimeImmutable @1700475234 {#2209
    date: 2023-11-20 11:13:54.0 +01:00
  }
}
date_edited App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent 22.0 MiB 0.14 ms
Input props
[
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    date: 2023-11-20 11:13:54.0 +01:00
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  "editedAt" => null
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent {#25992
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    date: 2023-11-20 11:13:54.0 +01:00
  }
  +editedAt: null
}
user_avatar App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent 22.0 MiB 0.17 ms
Input props
[
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  "width" => 40
  "height" => 40
  "asLink" => true
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent {#26046
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    +avatar: null
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    +markedForDeletionAt: null
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      date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
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  +asLink: true
}
vote App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent 22.0 MiB 2.45 ms
Input props
[
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      +avatar: null
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      +email: "lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
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      +markedForDeletionAt: null
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      +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
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      +customCss: null
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    +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2200
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      }
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585
        +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#4079 …}
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        +description: """
          From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
          \n
          Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).\n
          \n
          Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.\n
          \n
          ### Rules\n
          \n
          - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
          - No misinformation\n
          - No NSFW content\n
          - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
          \n
          ### Related Communities\n
          \n
          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
          - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
          \n
          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
          """
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        -id: 73
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         …2
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      +image: null
      +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2956 …}
      +slug: "Is-there-a-universal-web-UI-for-custom-Linux-NASes"
      +title: "Is there a "universal" web UI for custom Linux NASes?"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        Got me thinking, cuz I’ve done my own solutions (not the popular ones, like OMV and the likes) and they work just fine, I really have no trouble managing them through the terminal, but I thought about other people (maybe people that like more managing things though a web UI) and I was like “is there something like this 🤔?”.\n
        \n
        The other reason I’m asking is because I also freelance as IT solution/support and sometimes I do custom solutions for clients, like a NAS, and I would like to ease things a little user side. Sure, that will cut down on my fees, but I like client satisfaction and I think they will appreciate it ☺️.
        """
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      }
      +ip: null
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      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3215 …}
      +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3217 …}
      +children: [
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      ]
      -id: 16691
      -titleTs: "'custom':8 'linux':9 'nase':10 'ui':6 'univers':4 'web':5"
      -bodyTs: "'also':70 'appreci':115 'ask':66 'client':82,108 'custom':79 'cut':100 'cuz':4 'done':7 'eas':91 'fee':104 'fine':24 'freelanc':71 'got':1 'like':15,19,44,55,59,83,89,107 'littl':94 'm':65 'manag':30,46 'mayb':41 'nas':85 'omv':16 'one':14 'peopl':40,42 'popular':13 'realli':26 'reason':63 'satisfact':109 'side':96 'solut':10,80 'solution/support':74 'someth':58 'sometim':76 'sure':97 'termin':34 'thing':47,92 'think':3,112 'though':48 'thought':37 'troubl':29 'ui':51 'user':95 've':6 'web':50 'work':22 'would':88"
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       …2
    }
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …2}
    +image: null
    +parent: null
    +root: null
    +body: "There’s things like Unraid and Synology that have their own UI. But they have some limitations, for example Synology requires one of their devices, doesn’t run on generic ones."
    +lang: "en"
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    +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2211 …}
    +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2266 …}
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]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent {#26115
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          \n
          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
          - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
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          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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        Got me thinking, cuz I’ve done my own solutions (not the popular ones, like OMV and the likes) and they work just fine, I really have no trouble managing them through the terminal, but I thought about other people (maybe people that like more managing things though a web UI) and I was like “is there something like this 🤔?”.\n
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    +downVotes: 0
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://feddit.nl/comment/4727497"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700475234 {#2209
      date: 2023-11-20 11:13:54.0 +01:00
    }
    +"title": 221004
  }
  -cache: Symfony\Component\Cache\Adapter\TraceableTagAwareAdapter {#600 …}
}
settings_row_enum App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowEnumComponent 22.0 MiB 0.25 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Sidebar position"
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_GENERAL_SIDEBAR_POSITION"
  "values" => [
    [
      "name" => "Left"
      "value" => "LEFT"
    ]
    [
      "name" => "Right"
      "value" => "RIGHT"
    ]
  ]
  "defaultValue" => "RIGHT"
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowEnumComponent {#26579
  +label: "Sidebar position"
  +help: ""
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_GENERAL_SIDEBAR_POSITION"
  +values: [
    [
      "name" => "Left"
      "value" => "LEFT"
    ]
    [
      "name" => "Right"
      "value" => "RIGHT"
    ]
  ]
  +defaultValue: "RIGHT"
  +reloadRequired: true
}
settings_row_switch App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent 22.0 MiB 0.21 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Dynamic lists"
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_GENERAL_DYNAMIC_LISTS"
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent {#26651
  +label: "Dynamic lists"
  +help: ""
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_GENERAL_DYNAMIC_LISTS"
  +defaultValue: false
  +reloadRequired: true
}
settings_row_switch App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent 22.0 MiB 0.14 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Rounded edges"
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_GENERAL_ROUNDED_EDGES"
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent {#26714
  +label: "Rounded edges"
  +help: ""
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_GENERAL_ROUNDED_EDGES"
  +defaultValue: false
  +reloadRequired: true
}
settings_row_switch App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent 22.0 MiB 0.16 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Infinite scrolling"
  "help" => "Automatically load more content when you reach the bottom of the page."
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_GENERAL_INFINITE_SCROLL"
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent {#26770
  +label: "Infinite scrolling"
  +help: "Automatically load more content when you reach the bottom of the page."
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_GENERAL_INFINITE_SCROLL"
  +defaultValue: false
  +reloadRequired: true
}
settings_row_switch App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent 22.0 MiB 0.15 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Sticky navbar"
  "help" => "The navbar will stick to the top of the page when you scroll down."
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_GENERAL_FIXED_NAVBAR"
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent {#26829
  +label: "Sticky navbar"
  +help: "The navbar will stick to the top of the page when you scroll down."
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_GENERAL_FIXED_NAVBAR"
  +defaultValue: false
  +reloadRequired: true
}
settings_row_switch App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent 22.0 MiB 0.17 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Show top bar"
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_GENERAL_TOPBAR"
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent {#26885
  +label: "Show top bar"
  +help: ""
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_GENERAL_TOPBAR"
  +defaultValue: false
  +reloadRequired: true
}
settings_row_switch App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent 22.0 MiB 0.17 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Turbo mode (experimental)"
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_GENERAL_TURBO"
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent {#26941
  +label: "Turbo mode (experimental)"
  +help: ""
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_GENERAL_TURBO"
  +defaultValue: false
  +reloadRequired: true
}
user_settings_row_switch App\Twig\Components\UserSettingsRowSwitchComponent 22.0 MiB 0.28 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Mark new comments"
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_MARK_NEW_COMMENTS"
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserSettingsRowSwitchComponent {#26999
  +label: "Mark new comments"
  +help: ""
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_MARK_NEW_COMMENTS"
  +defaultValue: false
  +reloadRequired: true
}
settings_row_switch App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent 22.0 MiB 0.19 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Show "Support Us" block"
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_GENERAL_SUPPORT_US_BLOCK"
  "defaultValue" => true
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent {#27062
  +label: "Show "Support Us" block"
  +help: ""
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_GENERAL_SUPPORT_US_BLOCK"
  +defaultValue: true
  +reloadRequired: true
}
user_settings_row_switch App\Twig\Components\UserSettingsRowSwitchComponent 22.0 MiB 0.19 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Show subscribed users"
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_SUB_CHANNEL_USERS"
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserSettingsRowSwitchComponent {#27120
  +label: "Show subscribed users"
  +help: ""
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_SUB_CHANNEL_USERS"
  +defaultValue: false
  +reloadRequired: true
}
user_settings_row_switch App\Twig\Components\UserSettingsRowSwitchComponent 22.0 MiB 0.21 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Show subscribed magazines"
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_SUB_CHANNEL_MAGAZINES"
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserSettingsRowSwitchComponent {#27176
  +label: "Show subscribed magazines"
  +help: ""
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_SUB_CHANNEL_MAGAZINES"
  +defaultValue: false
  +reloadRequired: true
}
user_settings_row_switch App\Twig\Components\UserSettingsRowSwitchComponent 22.0 MiB 0.18 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Show subscribed domains"
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_SUB_CHANNEL_DOMAINS"
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserSettingsRowSwitchComponent {#27232
  +label: "Show subscribed domains"
  +help: ""
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_SUB_CHANNEL_DOMAINS"
  +defaultValue: false
  +reloadRequired: true
}
settings_row_switch App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent 24.0 MiB 0.15 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Auto media preview"
  "help" => "Automatically expand media previews."
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_ENTRIES_SHOW_PREVIEW"
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent {#27288
  +label: "Auto media preview"
  +help: "Automatically expand media previews."
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_ENTRIES_SHOW_PREVIEW"
  +defaultValue: false
  +reloadRequired: true
}
settings_row_switch App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent 24.0 MiB 0.16 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Compact view"
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_ENTRIES_COMPACT"
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent {#27344
  +label: "Compact view"
  +help: ""
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_ENTRIES_COMPACT"
  +defaultValue: false
  +reloadRequired: true
}
settings_row_switch App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent 24.0 MiB 0.15 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Show users’ avatars"
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_ENTRIES_SHOW_USERS_AVATARS"
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent {#27400
  +label: "Show users’ avatars"
  +help: ""
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_ENTRIES_SHOW_USERS_AVATARS"
  +defaultValue: false
  +reloadRequired: true
}
settings_row_switch App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent 24.0 MiB 0.14 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Show magazines’ icons"
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_ENTRIES_SHOW_MAGAZINES_ICONS"
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent {#27456
  +label: "Show magazines’ icons"
  +help: ""
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_ENTRIES_SHOW_MAGAZINES_ICONS"
  +defaultValue: false
  +reloadRequired: true
}
settings_row_switch App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent 24.0 MiB 0.13 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Show thumbnails"
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_ENTRIES_SHOW_THUMBNAILS"
  "defaultValue" => true
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent {#27512
  +label: "Show thumbnails"
  +help: ""
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_ENTRIES_SHOW_THUMBNAILS"
  +defaultValue: true
  +reloadRequired: true
}
settings_row_switch App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent 24.0 MiB 0.13 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Auto media preview"
  "help" => "Automatically expand media previews."
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_POSTS_SHOW_PREVIEW"
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent {#27568
  +label: "Auto media preview"
  +help: "Automatically expand media previews."
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_POSTS_SHOW_PREVIEW"
  +defaultValue: false
  +reloadRequired: true
}
settings_row_switch App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent 24.0 MiB 0.13 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Show users’ avatars"
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_POSTS_SHOW_USERS_AVATARS"
  "defaultValue" => true
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent {#27624
  +label: "Show users’ avatars"
  +help: ""
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_POSTS_SHOW_USERS_AVATARS"
  +defaultValue: true
  +reloadRequired: true
}
settings_row_enum App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowEnumComponent 24.0 MiB 0.22 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Comment reply position"
  "help" => "Display the comment reply form either at the top or bottom of the page. When 'infinite scroll' is enabled the position will always appear at the top."
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_COMMENTS_REPLY_POSITION"
  "values" => [
    [
      "name" => "top"
      "value" => "TOP"
    ]
    [
      "name" => "bottom"
      "value" => "BOTTOM"
    ]
  ]
  "defaultValue" => "TOP"
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowEnumComponent {#27680
  +label: "Comment reply position"
  +help: "Display the comment reply form either at the top or bottom of the page. When 'infinite scroll' is enabled the position will always appear at the top."
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_COMMENTS_REPLY_POSITION"
  +values: [
    [
      "name" => "top"
      "value" => "TOP"
    ]
    [
      "name" => "bottom"
      "value" => "BOTTOM"
    ]
  ]
  +defaultValue: "TOP"
  +reloadRequired: true
}
settings_row_switch App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent 24.0 MiB 0.21 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Show Comment Avatars"
  "help" => "Display/hide user avatars when viewing comments on a single thread or post."
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_COMMENTS_SHOW_USER_AVATAR"
  "defaultValue" => true
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent {#27738
  +label: "Show Comment Avatars"
  +help: "Display/hide user avatars when viewing comments on a single thread or post."
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_COMMENTS_SHOW_USER_AVATAR"
  +defaultValue: true
  +reloadRequired: true
}
date App\Twig\Components\DateComponent 24.0 MiB 0.17 ms
Input props
[
  "date" => DateTimeImmutable @1687169920 {#269
    date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateComponent {#27811
  +date: DateTimeImmutable @1687169920 {#269
    date: 2023-06-19 12:18:40.0 +02:00
  }
}
related_magazines App\Twig\Components\RelatedMagazinesComponent 24.0 MiB 2.54 ms
Input props
[
  "magazine" => null
  "tag" => null
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\RelatedMagazinesComponent {#27898
  +limit: 4
  +tag: null
  +magazine: null
  +type: "random"
  +title: "random_magazines"
  +refreshedRandom: false
  -repository: App\Repository\MagazineRepository {#2438 …}
  -cache: Symfony\Component\Cache\Adapter\TraceableTagAwareAdapter {#600 …}
  -twig: Twig\Environment {#1252 …}
  -requestStack: Symfony\Component\HttpFoundation\RequestStack {#1328 …}
}
active_users App\Twig\Components\ActiveUsersComponent 24.0 MiB 0.27 ms
Input props
[
  "magazine" => null
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\ActiveUsersComponent {#27963
  +magazine: null
  -userRepository: App\Repository\UserRepository {#603 …}
  -cache: Symfony\Component\Cache\Adapter\TraceableTagAwareAdapter {#600 …}
  -twig: Twig\Environment {#1252 …}
  -requestStack: Symfony\Component\HttpFoundation\RequestStack {#1328 …}
}
related_categories App\Twig\Components\RelatedCategoriesComponent 24.0 MiB 14.03 ms
Input props
[
  "magazine" => null
  "tag" => null
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\RelatedCategoriesComponent {#28022
  +limit: 4
  +tag: null
  +magazine: null
  +type: "random"
  +title: "random_categories"
  +refreshedRandom: false
  -repository: App\Repository\CategoryRepository {#28023 …}
  -cache: Symfony\Component\Cache\Adapter\TraceableTagAwareAdapter {#600 …}
  -twig: Twig\Environment {#1252 …}
  -requestStack: Symfony\Component\HttpFoundation\RequestStack {#1328 …}
}
related_posts App\Twig\Components\RelatedPostsComponent 24.0 MiB 6.89 ms
Input props
[
  "magazine" => null
  "tag" => null
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\RelatedPostsComponent {#22768
  +limit: 4
  +tag: null
  +magazine: null
  +type: "random"
  +post: null
  +title: "random_posts"
  +refreshedRandom: false
  -repository: App\Repository\PostRepository {#1638 …}
  -cache: Symfony\Component\Cache\Adapter\TraceableTagAwareAdapter {#600 …}
  -twig: Twig\Environment {#1252 …}
  -requestStack: Symfony\Component\HttpFoundation\RequestStack {#1328 …}
  -mentionManager: App\Service\MentionManager {#1539 …}
}
related_entries App\Twig\Components\RelatedEntriesComponent 24.0 MiB 2.15 ms
Input props
[
  "magazine" => null
  "tag" => null
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\RelatedEntriesComponent {#22380
  +limit: 4
  +tag: null
  +magazine: null
  +type: "random"
  +entry: null
  +title: "random_entries"
  +refreshedRandom: false
  -repository: App\Repository\EntryRepository {#1777 …}
  -cache: Symfony\Component\Cache\Adapter\TraceableTagAwareAdapter {#600 …}
  -twig: Twig\Environment {#1252 …}
  -requestStack: Symfony\Component\HttpFoundation\RequestStack {#1328 …}
  -mentionManager: App\Service\MentionManager {#1539 …}
}
support_us_block App\Twig\Components\SupportUsBlock 24.0 MiB 0.28 ms
Input props
[]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\SupportUsBlock {#25028
  +subject: ? App\Entity\Contracts\VotableInterface
  +url: ? string
  -twig: Twig\Environment {#1252 …}
  -cache: Symfony\Component\Cache\Adapter\TraceableTagAwareAdapter {#600 …}
  -requestStack: Symfony\Component\HttpFoundation\RequestStack {#1328 …}
  -partnerBlockRepository: App\Repository\PartnerBlockRepository {#25029 …}
}
featured_magazines App\Twig\Components\FeaturedMagazinesComponent 24.0 MiB 0.96 ms
Input props
[
  "magazine" => null
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\FeaturedMagazinesComponent {#27773
  +magazine: null
  -twig: Twig\Environment {#1252 …}
  -repository: App\Repository\MagazineRepository {#2438 …}
}