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            "content": "<p>Actually that\u2019s Paul Verhoeven and Edward Neumeier writing the movie <em>Starship Troopers,<\/em> which I maintain is a dumb movie with aspirations of being a smart movie, pretending to be a dumb movie.<\/p>\n<p>Just as an example, in the scene where the guy asks why they\u2019re learning to throw knives when they have ICBMs, here\u2019s Heinlein\u2019s take:<\/p>\n<p>Once, during one of the two-minute rest periods that were scattered sparsely through each day\u2019s work,\none of the boys \u2014 a kid named Ted Hendrick \u2014 asked, \u201cSergeant? I guess this knife throwing is fun\u2026 but why do we have to learn it? What possible use is it?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>\u201cWell,\u201d answered Zim, \u201csuppose all you have is a knife? Or maybe not even a knife? What do you do?\nJust say your prayers and die? Or wade in and make him buy it anyhow? Son, this is real \u2014 it\u2019s not a\nchecker game you can concede if you find yourself too far behind.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>\u201cBut that\u2019s just what I mean, sir. Suppose you aren\u2019t armed at all? Or just one of these toadstickers, say? And the man you\u2019re up against has all sorts of dangerous weapons? There\u2019s nothing you can do about it; he\u2019s got you licked on showdown.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Zim said almost gently, &quot;You\u2019ve got it all wrong, son. There\u2019s no such thing as a \u2018dangerous weapon.\u2019 &quot;<\/p>\n<p>\u201cHuh? Sir?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>\u201cThere are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men. We\u2019re trying to teach you to be dangerous \u2014 to the enemy. Dangerous even without a knife. Deadly as long as you still have one hand or one foot and are still alive. If you don\u2019t know what I mean, go read \u2018Horatius at the Bridge\u2019 or \u2018The\nDeath of the Bon Homme Richard\u2019; they\u2019re both in the Camp library. But take the case you first\nmentioned; I\u2019m you and all you have is a knife. That target behind me \u2014 the one you\u2019ve been missing, number three \u2014 is a sentry, armed with everything but an H-bomb. You\u2019ve got to get him\u2026 quietly, at\nonce, and without letting him call for help.\u201d Zim turned slightly \u2014thunk! \u2014 a knife he hadn\u2019t even had in\nhis hand was quivering in the center of target number three. \u201cYou see? Best to carry two knives \u2014 but\nget him you must, even barehanded.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>&quot;Uh \u2014 &quot;<\/p>\n<p>\u201cSomething still troubling you? Speak up. That\u2019s what I\u2019m here for, to answer your questions.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>\u201cUh, yes, sir. You said the sentry didn\u2019t have any H-bomb. But he does have an H-bomb; that\u2019s just the point. Well, at least we have, if we\u2019re the sentry . . . and any sentry we\u2019re up against is likely to have\nthem, too. I don\u2019t mean the sentry, I mean the side he\u2019s on.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>\u201cI understood you.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>\u201cWell\u2026 you see, sir? If we can use an H-bomb \u2014 and, as you said, it\u2019s no checker game; it\u2019s real, it\u2019s\nwar and nobody is fooling around \u2014 isn\u2019t it sort of ridiculous to go crawling around in the weeds,\nthrowing knives and maybe getting yourself killed\u2026 and even losing the war\u2026 when you\u2019ve got a real\nweapon you can use to win? What\u2019s the point in a whole lot of men risking their lives with obsolete\nweapons when one professor type can do so much more just by pushing a button?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Zim didn\u2019t answer at once, which wasn\u2019t like him at all. Then he said softly, \u201cAre you happy in the\nInfantry, Hendrick? You can resign, you know.\u201d Hendrick muttered something; Zim said, \u201cSpeak up!\u201d<\/p>\n<p>\u201cI\u2019m not itching to resign, sir. I\u2019m going to sweat out my term.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>\u201cI see. Well, the question you asked is one that a sergeant isn\u2019t really qualified to answer\u2026 and one that you shouldn\u2019t ask me. You\u2019re supposed to know the answer before you join up. Or you should. Did\nyour school have a course in History and Moral Philosophy?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>\u201cWhat? Sure \u2014 yes, sir.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>\u201cThen you\u2019ve heard the answer. But I\u2019ll give you my own \u2014 unofficial \u2014 views on it. If you wanted to\nteach a baby a lesson, would you cut its head off?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>\u201cWhy\u2026 no, sir!\u201d<\/p>\n<p>\u201cOf course not. You\u2019d paddle it. There can be circumstances when it\u2019s just as foolish to hit an enemy\ncity with an H-bomb as it would be to spank a baby with an ax. War is not violence and killing, pure and\nsimple; war is controlled violence, for a purpose. The purpose of war is to support your government\u2019s\ndecisions by force. The purpose is never to kill the enemy just to be killing him\u2026 but to make him do what you want him to do. Not killing\u2026 but controlled and purposeful violence. But it\u2019s not your business\nor mine to decide the purpose or the control. It\u2019s never a soldier\u2019s business to decide when or where or\nhow \u2014 or why \u2014 he fights; that belongs to the statesmen and the generals. The statesmen decide why\nand how much; the generals take it from there and tell us where and when and how. We supply the\nviolence; other people \u2014 \u2018older and wiser heads,\u2019 as they say \u2014 supply the control. Which is as it\nshould be. That\u2019s the best answer I can give you. If it doesn\u2019t satisfy you, I\u2019ll get you a chit to go talk to\nthe regimental commander. If he can\u2019t convince you \u2014 then go home and be a civilian! Because in that\ncase you will certainly never make a soldier.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>\u2026and in the movie the guy just gets a knife through the hand and Zim says \u201cTry to push a button now!\u201d They\u2019re not exactly equivalent.\n<a href=\"https:\/\/youtu.be\/y5bHLrGBUKo\" rel=\"nofollow\">This<\/a> (admittedly quite long) series discusses the issues with Verhoeven\u2019s interpretation of Heinlein, but the short of it is that Verhoeven and Heinlein were such fundamentally different people that the very idea of Verhoeven adaptating Heinlein is absurd.<\/p>\n",
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                "content": "Actually that's Paul Verhoeven and Edward Neumeier writing the movie *Starship Troopers,* which I maintain is a dumb movie with aspirations of being a smart movie, pretending to be a dumb movie.\n\nJust as an example, in the scene where the guy asks why they're learning to throw knives when they have ICBMs, here's Heinlein's take:\n\nOnce, during one of the two-minute rest periods that were scattered sparsely through each day\u2019s work,\rone of the boys \u2014 a kid named Ted Hendrick \u2014 asked, \"Sergeant? I guess this knife throwing is fun... but why do we have to learn it? What possible use is it?\"\r\n\n\"Well,\" answered Zim, \"suppose all you have is a knife? Or maybe not even a knife? What do you do?\rJust say your prayers and die? Or wade in and make him buy it anyhow? Son, this is real \u2014 it\u2019s not a\rchecker game you can concede if you find yourself too far behind.\"\n\r\n\"But that\u2019s just what I mean, sir. Suppose you aren\u2019t armed at all? Or just one of these toadstickers, say? And the man you\u2019re up against has all sorts of dangerous weapons? There\u2019s nothing you can do about it; he\u2019s got you licked on showdown.\"\n\r\nZim said almost gently, \"You\u2019ve got it all wrong, son. There\u2019s no such thing as a \u2018dangerous weapon.\u2019 \"\n\r\n\"Huh? Sir?\"\n\r\n\"There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men. We\u2019re trying to teach you to be dangerous \u2014 to the enemy. Dangerous even without a knife. Deadly as long as you still have one hand or one foot and are still alive. If you don\u2019t know what I mean, go read \u2018Horatius at the Bridge\u2019 or \u2018The\rDeath of the Bon Homme Richard\u2019; they\u2019re both in the Camp library. But take the case you first\rmentioned; I\u2019m you and all you have is a knife. That target behind me \u2014 the one you\u2019ve been missing, number three \u2014 is a sentry, armed with everything but an H-bomb. You\u2019ve got to get him... quietly, at\ronce, and without letting him call for help.\" Zim turned slightly \u2014thunk! \u2014 a knife he hadn\u2019t even had in\rhis hand was quivering in the center of target number three. \"You see? Best to carry two knives \u2014 but\rget him you must, even barehanded.\"\n\r\n\"Uh \u2014 \"\n\r\n\"Something still troubling you? Speak up. That\u2019s what I\u2019m here for, to answer your questions.\"\n\r\n\"Uh, yes, sir. You said the sentry didn\u2019t have any H-bomb. But he does have an H-bomb; that\u2019s just the point. Well, at least we have, if we\u2019re the sentry . . . and any sentry we\u2019re up against is likely to have\r\nthem, too. I don\u2019t mean the sentry, I mean the side he\u2019s on.\"\r\n\n\"I understood you.\"\r\n\n\"Well... you see, sir? If we can use an H-bomb \u2014 and, as you said, it\u2019s no checker game; it\u2019s real, it\u2019s\rwar and nobody is fooling around \u2014 isn\u2019t it sort of ridiculous to go crawling around in the weeds,\rthrowing knives and maybe getting yourself killed... and even losing the war... when you\u2019ve got a real\rweapon you can use to win? What\u2019s the point in a whole lot of men risking their lives with obsolete\rweapons when one professor type can do so much more just by pushing a button?\"\r\n\nZim didn\u2019t answer at once, which wasn\u2019t like him at all. Then he said softly, \"Are you happy in the\rInfantry, Hendrick? You can resign, you know.\" Hendrick muttered something; Zim said, \"Speak up!\"\r\n\n\"I\u2019m not itching to resign, sir. I\u2019m going to sweat out my term.\"\r\n\n\"I see. Well, the question you asked is one that a sergeant isn\u2019t really qualified to answer... and one that you shouldn\u2019t ask me. You\u2019re supposed to know the answer before you join up. Or you should. Did\ryour school have a course in History and Moral Philosophy?\"\n\r\n\"What? Sure \u2014 yes, sir.\"\r\n\n\"Then you\u2019ve heard the answer. But I\u2019ll give you my own \u2014 unofficial \u2014 views on it. If you wanted to\rteach a baby a lesson, would you cut its head off?\"\r\n\n\"Why... no, sir!\"\r\n\n\"Of course not. You\u2019d paddle it. There can be circumstances when it\u2019s just as foolish to hit an enemy\rcity with an H-bomb as it would be to spank a baby with an ax. War is not violence and killing, pure and\rsimple; war is controlled violence, for a purpose. The purpose of war is to support your government\u2019s\r\ndecisions by force. The purpose is never to kill the enemy just to be killing him... but to make him do what you want him to do. Not killing... but controlled and purposeful violence. But it\u2019s not your business\r\nor mine to decide the purpose or the control. It\u2019s never a soldier\u2019s business to decide when or where or\rhow \u2014 or why \u2014 he fights; that belongs to the statesmen and the generals. The statesmen decide why\rand how much; the generals take it from there and tell us where and when and how. We supply the\rviolence; other people \u2014 \u2018older and wiser heads,\u2019 as they say \u2014 supply the control. Which is as it\rshould be. That\u2019s the best answer I can give you. If it doesn\u2019t satisfy you, I\u2019ll get you a chit to go talk to\rthe regimental commander. If he can\u2019t convince you \u2014 then go home and be a civilian! Because in that\rcase you will certainly never make a soldier.\" \n\n...and in the movie the guy just gets a knife through the hand and Zim says \"Try to push a button now!\" They're not exactly equivalent. \n [This](https:\/\/youtu.be\/y5bHLrGBUKo) (admittedly quite long) series discusses the issues with Verhoeven's interpretation of Heinlein, but the short of it is that Verhoeven and Heinlein were such fundamentally different people that the very idea of Verhoeven adaptating Heinlein is absurd.\n\n",
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            "published": "2025-04-03T15:21:16.682088Z",
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{"@context":["https://join-lemmy.org/context.json","https://www.w3.org/ns/activitystreams"],"actor":"https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips","to":["https://www.w3.org/ns/activitystreams#Public"],"object":{"id":"https://lemmy.world/activities/update/fe68d621-8cce-471d-8923-e06a3f1b8bab","actor":"https://lemmy.world/u/GraniteM","to":["https://www.w3.org/ns/activitystreams#Public"],"object":{"type":"Note","id":"https://lemmy.world/comment/16213159","attributedTo":"https://lemmy.world/u/GraniteM","to":["https://www.w3.org/ns/activitystreams#Public"],"cc":["https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips","https://lemmy.world/u/FauxLiving"],"content":"<p>Actually that’s Paul Verhoeven and Edward Neumeier writing the movie <em>Starship Troopers,</em> which I maintain is a dumb movie with aspirations of being a smart movie, pretending to be a dumb movie.</p>\n<p>Just as an example, in the scene where the guy asks why they’re learning to throw knives when they have ICBMs, here’s Heinlein’s take:</p>\n<p>Once, during one of the two-minute rest periods that were scattered sparsely through each day’s work,\none of the boys — a kid named Ted Hendrick — asked, “Sergeant? I guess this knife throwing is fun… but why do we have to learn it? What possible use is it?”</p>\n<p>“Well,” answered Zim, “suppose all you have is a knife? Or maybe not even a knife? What do you do?\nJust say your prayers and die? Or wade in and make him buy it anyhow? Son, this is real — it’s not a\nchecker game you can concede if you find yourself too far behind.”</p>\n<p>“But that’s just what I mean, sir. Suppose you aren’t armed at all? Or just one of these toadstickers, say? And the man you’re up against has all sorts of dangerous weapons? There’s nothing you can do about it; he’s got you licked on showdown.”</p>\n<p>Zim said almost gently, &quot;You’ve got it all wrong, son. There’s no such thing as a ‘dangerous weapon.’ &quot;</p>\n<p>“Huh? Sir?”</p>\n<p>“There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men. We’re trying to teach you to be dangerous — to the enemy. Dangerous even without a knife. Deadly as long as you still have one hand or one foot and are still alive. If you don’t know what I mean, go read ‘Horatius at the Bridge’ or ‘The\nDeath of the Bon Homme Richard’; they’re both in the Camp library. But take the case you first\nmentioned; I’m you and all you have is a knife. That target behind me — the one you’ve been missing, number three — is a sentry, armed with everything but an H-bomb. You’ve got to get him… quietly, at\nonce, and without letting him call for help.” Zim turned slightly —thunk! — a knife he hadn’t even had in\nhis hand was quivering in the center of target number three. “You see? Best to carry two knives — but\nget him you must, even barehanded.”</p>\n<p>&quot;Uh — &quot;</p>\n<p>“Something still troubling you? Speak up. That’s what I’m here for, to answer your questions.”</p>\n<p>“Uh, yes, sir. You said the sentry didn’t have any H-bomb. But he does have an H-bomb; that’s just the point. Well, at least we have, if we’re the sentry . . . and any sentry we’re up against is likely to have\nthem, too. I don’t mean the sentry, I mean the side he’s on.”</p>\n<p>“I understood you.”</p>\n<p>“Well… you see, sir? If we can use an H-bomb — and, as you said, it’s no checker game; it’s real, it’s\nwar and nobody is fooling around — isn’t it sort of ridiculous to go crawling around in the weeds,\nthrowing knives and maybe getting yourself killed… and even losing the war… when you’ve got a real\nweapon you can use to win? What’s the point in a whole lot of men risking their lives with obsolete\nweapons when one professor type can do so much more just by pushing a button?”</p>\n<p>Zim didn’t answer at once, which wasn’t like him at all. Then he said softly, “Are you happy in the\nInfantry, Hendrick? You can resign, you know.” Hendrick muttered something; Zim said, “Speak up!”</p>\n<p>“I’m not itching to resign, sir. I’m going to sweat out my term.”</p>\n<p>“I see. Well, the question you asked is one that a sergeant isn’t really qualified to answer… and one that you shouldn’t ask me. You’re supposed to know the answer before you join up. Or you should. Did\nyour school have a course in History and Moral Philosophy?”</p>\n<p>“What? Sure — yes, sir.”</p>\n<p>“Then you’ve heard the answer. But I’ll give you my own — unofficial — views on it. If you wanted to\nteach a baby a lesson, would you cut its head off?”</p>\n<p>“Why… no, sir!”</p>\n<p>“Of course not. You’d paddle it. There can be circumstances when it’s just as foolish to hit an enemy\ncity with an H-bomb as it would be to spank a baby with an ax. War is not violence and killing, pure and\nsimple; war is controlled violence, for a purpose. The purpose of war is to support your government’s\ndecisions by force. The purpose is never to kill the enemy just to be killing him… but to make him do what you want him to do. Not killing… but controlled and purposeful violence. But it’s not your business\nor mine to decide the purpose or the control. It’s never a soldier’s business to decide when or where or\nhow — or why — he fights; that belongs to the statesmen and the generals. The statesmen decide why\nand how much; the generals take it from there and tell us where and when and how. We supply the\nviolence; other people — ‘older and wiser heads,’ as they say — supply the control. Which is as it\nshould be. That’s the best answer I can give you. If it doesn’t satisfy you, I’ll get you a chit to go talk to\nthe regimental commander. If he can’t convince you — then go home and be a civilian! Because in that\ncase you will certainly never make a soldier.”</p>\n<p>…and in the movie the guy just gets a knife through the hand and Zim says “Try to push a button now!” They’re not exactly equivalent.\n<a href=\"https://youtu.be/y5bHLrGBUKo\" rel=\"nofollow\">This</a> (admittedly quite long) series discusses the issues with Verhoeven’s interpretation of Heinlein, but the short of it is that Verhoeven and Heinlein were such fundamentally different people that the very idea of Verhoeven adaptating Heinlein is absurd.</p>\n","inReplyTo":"https://lemmy.world/comment/16212732","mediaType":"text/html","source":{"content":"Actually that's Paul Verhoeven and Edward Neumeier writing the movie *Starship Troopers,* which I maintain is a dumb movie with aspirations of being a smart movie, pretending to be a dumb movie.\n\nJust as an example, in the scene where the guy asks why they're learning to throw knives when they have ICBMs, here's Heinlein's take:\n\nOnce, during one of the two-minute rest periods that were scattered sparsely through each day’s work,\rone of the boys — a kid named Ted Hendrick — asked, \"Sergeant? I guess this knife throwing is fun... but why do we have to learn it? What possible use is it?\"\r\n\n\"Well,\" answered Zim, \"suppose all you have is a knife? Or maybe not even a knife? What do you do?\rJust say your prayers and die? Or wade in and make him buy it anyhow? Son, this is real — it’s not a\rchecker game you can concede if you find yourself too far behind.\"\n\r\n\"But that’s just what I mean, sir. Suppose you aren’t armed at all? Or just one of these toadstickers, say? And the man you’re up against has all sorts of dangerous weapons? There’s nothing you can do about it; he’s got you licked on showdown.\"\n\r\nZim said almost gently, \"You’ve got it all wrong, son. There’s no such thing as a ‘dangerous weapon.’ \"\n\r\n\"Huh? Sir?\"\n\r\n\"There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men. We’re trying to teach you to be dangerous — to the enemy. Dangerous even without a knife. Deadly as long as you still have one hand or one foot and are still alive. If you don’t know what I mean, go read ‘Horatius at the Bridge’ or ‘The\rDeath of the Bon Homme Richard’; they’re both in the Camp library. But take the case you first\rmentioned; I’m you and all you have is a knife. That target behind me — the one you’ve been missing, number three — is a sentry, armed with everything but an H-bomb. You’ve got to get him... quietly, at\ronce, and without letting him call for help.\" Zim turned slightly —thunk! — a knife he hadn’t even had in\rhis hand was quivering in the center of target number three. \"You see? Best to carry two knives — but\rget him you must, even barehanded.\"\n\r\n\"Uh — \"\n\r\n\"Something still troubling you? Speak up. That’s what I’m here for, to answer your questions.\"\n\r\n\"Uh, yes, sir. You said the sentry didn’t have any H-bomb. But he does have an H-bomb; that’s just the point. Well, at least we have, if we’re the sentry . . . and any sentry we’re up against is likely to have\r\nthem, too. I don’t mean the sentry, I mean the side he’s on.\"\r\n\n\"I understood you.\"\r\n\n\"Well... you see, sir? If we can use an H-bomb — and, as you said, it’s no checker game; it’s real, it’s\rwar and nobody is fooling around — isn’t it sort of ridiculous to go crawling around in the weeds,\rthrowing knives and maybe getting yourself killed... and even losing the war... when you’ve got a real\rweapon you can use to win? What’s the point in a whole lot of men risking their lives with obsolete\rweapons when one professor type can do so much more just by pushing a button?\"\r\n\nZim didn’t answer at once, which wasn’t like him at all. Then he said softly, \"Are you happy in the\rInfantry, Hendrick? You can resign, you know.\" Hendrick muttered something; Zim said, \"Speak up!\"\r\n\n\"I’m not itching to resign, sir. I’m going to sweat out my term.\"\r\n\n\"I see. Well, the question you asked is one that a sergeant isn’t really qualified to answer... and one that you shouldn’t ask me. You’re supposed to know the answer before you join up. Or you should. Did\ryour school have a course in History and Moral Philosophy?\"\n\r\n\"What? Sure — yes, sir.\"\r\n\n\"Then you’ve heard the answer. But I’ll give you my own — unofficial — views on it. If you wanted to\rteach a baby a lesson, would you cut its head off?\"\r\n\n\"Why... no, sir!\"\r\n\n\"Of course not. You’d paddle it. There can be circumstances when it’s just as foolish to hit an enemy\rcity with an H-bomb as it would be to spank a baby with an ax. War is not violence and killing, pure and\rsimple; war is controlled violence, for a purpose. The purpose of war is to support your government’s\r\ndecisions by force. The purpose is never to kill the enemy just to be killing him... but to make him do what you want him to do. Not killing... but controlled and purposeful violence. But it’s not your business\r\nor mine to decide the purpose or the control. It’s never a soldier’s business to decide when or where or\rhow — or why — he fights; that belongs to the statesmen and the generals. The statesmen decide why\rand how much; the generals take it from there and tell us where and when and how. We supply the\rviolence; other people — ‘older and wiser heads,’ as they say — supply the control. Which is as it\rshould be. That’s the best answer I can give you. If it doesn’t satisfy you, I’ll get you a chit to go talk to\rthe regimental commander. If he can’t convince you — then go home and be a civilian! Because in that\rcase you will certainly never make a soldier.\" \n\n...and in the movie the guy just gets a knife through the hand and Zim says \"Try to push a button now!\" They're not exactly equivalent. \n [This](https://youtu.be/y5bHLrGBUKo) (admittedly quite long) series discusses the issues with Verhoeven's interpretation of Heinlein, but the short of it is that Verhoeven and Heinlein were such fundamentally different people that the very idea of Verhoeven adaptating Heinlein is absurd.\n\n","mediaType":"text/markdown"},"published":"2025-04-03T15:21:16.682088Z","updated":"2025-04-03T15:28:21.641653Z","tag":[{"href":"https://lemmy.world/u/FauxLiving","name":"@FauxLiving@lemmy.world","type":"Mention"}],"distinguished":false,"audience":"https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips","attachment":[]},"cc":["https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips","https://lemmy.world/u/FauxLiving"],"tag":[{"href":"https://lemmy.world/u/FauxLiving","name":"@FauxLiving@lemmy.world","type":"Mention"}],"type":"Update","audience":"https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips"},"cc":["https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips/followers"],"type":"Announce","id":"https://lemmy.world/activities/announce/update/5fcb6f2a-58aa-46fb-bd86-d6dfa459341a"}