GET https://kbin.spritesserver.nl/u/@Prunebutt@feddit.de/commented/2023-12-07::2023-12-07

Response
200 OK
IP
3.147.45.7
Profiled on
Token
646996

Security

Token

There is no security token.

Firewall

main Name
Security enabled
Stateless

Configuration

Key Value
provider security.user.provider.concrete.app_user_provider
context main
entry_point App\Security\KbinAuthenticator
user_checker App\Security\UserChecker
access_denied_handler (none)
access_denied_url (none)
authenticators 
[
  "two_factor"
  "remember_me"
  "App\Security\KbinAuthenticator"
  "App\Security\FacebookAuthenticator"
  "App\Security\GoogleAuthenticator"
  "App\Security\GithubAuthenticator"
  "App\Security\KeycloakAuthenticator"
]

Listeners

Listener Duration Response 
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\ChannelListener {#723
  -map: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\AccessMap {#722 …}
  -logger: Monolog\Logger {#783 …}
  -httpPort: 80
  -httpsPort: 443
}
 0.00 ms (none) 
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\ContextListener {#706
  -tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\TokenStorage {#1017 …}
  -sessionKey: "_security_main"
  -logger: Monolog\Logger {#783 …}
  -userProviders: Symfony\Component\DependencyInjection\Argument\RewindableGenerator {#705 …}
  -dispatcher: Symfony\Component\EventDispatcher\Debug\TraceableEventDispatcher {#747 …}
  -registered: false
  -trustResolver: Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authentication\AuthenticationTrustResolver {#780 …}
  -sessionTrackerEnabler: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage::enableUsageTracking(): void {#703 …}
}
 9.85 ms (none) 
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\AuthenticatorManagerListener {#584
  -authenticatorManager: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Authentication\AuthenticatorManager {#595 …}
}
 0.00 ms (none) 
Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Http\Firewall\TwoFactorAccessListener {#582
  -twoFactorFirewallConfig: Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\TwoFactor\TwoFactorFirewallConfig {#842 …}
  -tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage {#1018 …}
  -twoFactorAccessDecider: Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\TwoFactorAccessDecider {#581 …}
}
 0.05 ms (none) 
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\AccessListener {#579
  -tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage {#1018 …}
  -accessDecisionManager: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\TraceableAccessDecisionManager {#937 …}
  -map: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\AccessMap {#722 …}
}
 0.00 ms (none) 
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\LogoutListener {#786
  -tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage {#1018 …}
  -options: [
    "csrf_parameter" => "_csrf_token"
    "csrf_token_id" => "logout"
    "logout_path" => "app_logout"
  ]
  -httpUtils: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\HttpUtils {#841 …}
  -csrfTokenManager: Symfony\Component\Security\Csrf\CsrfTokenManager {#1015 …}
  -eventDispatcher: Symfony\Component\EventDispatcher\Debug\TraceableEventDispatcher {#747 …}
}
 0.00 ms (none)

Authenticators

No authenticators have been recorded. Check previous profiles on your authentication endpoint.

Access Decision

affirmative Strategy
# Voter class
1 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\AuthenticatedVoter"
2 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
3 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
4 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\ExpressionVoter"
5 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
6 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
7 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
8 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
9 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
10 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
11 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
12 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
13 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
14 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"

Access decision log

# Result Attributes Object
1 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
2 DENIED moderate 
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2003 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
  +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2559 …}
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2581 …}
  +slug: "Know-your-enemy"
  +title: "Know your enemy"
  +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/4e8abd58-e357-4836-88ce-d57b36597f6b.jpeg"
  +body: null
  +type: "image"
  +lang: "en"
  +isOc: false
  +hasEmbed: true
  +commentCount: 76
  +favouriteCount: 676
  +score: 0
  +isAdult: false
  +sticky: false
  +lastActive: DateTime @1702111873 {#2346
    date: 2023-12-09 09:51:13.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +adaAmount: 0
  +tags: null
  +mentions: null
  +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2580 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2578 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2575 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2609 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2605 …}
  +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2622 …}
  +children: [
    11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1604 …}
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: null
        +root: null
        +body: """
          Reminder that while the labour theory of value can be practical to understand certain aspects of society, it is still culturally biased and not “objectively” true.\n
          \n
          What creates value can only be answered in a cultural framework.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 12
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1703499828 {#1580
          date: 2023-12-25 11:23:48.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1561 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1564 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1563 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1565 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1558 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1557 …}
        -id: 206964
        -bodyTs: "'answer':33 'aspect':15 'bias':22 'certain':14 'creat':28 'cultur':21,36 'framework':37 'labour':5 'object':25 'practic':11 'remind':1 'societi':17 'still':20 'theori':6 'true':26 'understand':13 'valu':8,29"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5480766"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701964861 {#1550
          date: 2023-12-07 17:01:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 206964
      }
      +body: """
        You’re right. It’s *one* theory. There is however ongoing debate on which theory is “correct”.\n
        \n
        This vid explains it quite well and with Simpsons clips so the hour of video is bearable:\n
        \n
        [www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw)
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 2
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1701971365 {#1621
        date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
        "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
        "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1596 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1702 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1683 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1680 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1686 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1692 …}
      -id: 207387
      -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':37 'bearabl':34 'clip':27 'correct':17 'debat':12 'explain':20 'hour':30 'howev':10 'one':6 'ongo':11 'quit':22 're':2 'right':3 'simpson':26 'theori':7,15 'vid':19 'video':32 'well':23 'www.youtube.com':36 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':35"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5483715"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701971365 {#1620
        date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 207387
    }
    12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
    9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1721
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1726 …}
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
      +body: "Umm… Thanks for that unnecessarily aggressive seeming and a bit incompehensible addendum, I guess?"
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 4
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1701975001 {#1723
        date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
        "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
        "@archomrade@midwest.social"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1728 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1730 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1734 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1727 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1733 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1724 …}
      -id: 207642
      -bodyTs: "'addendum':12 'aggress':6 'bit':10 'guess':14 'incompehens':11 'seem':7 'thank':2 'umm':1 'unnecessarili':5"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485206"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975001 {#1722
        date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 207642
    }
    10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1616
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1611 …}
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
      +body: """
        I was talking about the theory, not value. Sorry if that didn’t come across.\n
        \n
        Now that I think about it: isn’t value culturally determined in many things? Why are apple products more expensive than other computers with the same specs? Why is a ticket to a Billie Eilish concert more valuable than one to my neighbor’s indie rock band?
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 2
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1701974894 {#1705
        date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
        "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
        "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1598 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1629 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1626 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1618 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1597 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1731 …}
      -id: 207637
      -bodyTs: "'across':15 'appl':32 'band':62 'billi':49 'come':14 'comput':38 'concert':51 'cultur':25 'determin':26 'didn':12 'eilish':50 'expens':35 'indi':60 'isn':22 'mani':28 'neighbor':58 'one':55 'product':33 'rock':61 'sorri':9 'spec':42 'talk':3 'theori':6 'thing':29 'think':19 'ticket':46 'valu':8,24 'valuabl':53"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485163"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701974894 {#1711
        date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 207637
    }
    7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1718
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1720 …}
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
      +body: """
        Sorry, I interpreted it as aggressive. Figuring out tone in text form is hard and all that. Sorry that I wrongly accused you.\n
        \n
        Things I didn’t get:\n
        \n
        > A reminder that the labour theory of value is not a marxist concept.\n
        \n
        Marx hasn’t been explicity brought up yet (at least not in my comment). Only implicitly in the original post. Again: thought you were attacking me and was like “umm… So what?”\n
        \n
        > When people wave their hands around and say “labor theory of value isn’t objectively true!!”, they’re shadowboxing a ghost.\n
        \n
        I thought you meant me, since that was what I was basically saying. 😅\n
        \n
        > Value != price\n
        \n
        Now, that one wasn’t even implicitly mentioned.\n
        \n
        I hope you don’t hold my misunderstanding against me.
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 3
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1701975943 {#1715
        date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
        "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
        "@archomrade@midwest.social"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1716 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1739 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1740 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2465 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2463 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2411 …}
      -id: 207711
      -bodyTs: "'accus':22 'aggress':6 'around':79 'attack':66 'basic':106 'brought':47 'comment':55 'concept':41 'didn':26 'even':115 'explic':46 'figur':7 'form':12 'get':28 'ghost':94 'hand':78 'hard':14 'hasn':43 'hold':123 'hope':119 'implicit':57,116 'interpret':3 'isn':86 'labor':82 'labour':33 'least':51 'like':70 'marx':42 'marxist':40 'meant':98 'mention':117 'misunderstand':125 'object':88 'one':112 'origin':60 'peopl':75 'post':61 'price':109 're':91 'remind':30 'say':81,107 'shadowbox':92 'sinc':100 'sorri':1,18 'text':11 'theori':34,83 'thing':24 'thought':63,96 'tone':9 'true':89 'umm':71 'valu':36,85,108 'wasn':113 'wave':76 'wrong':21 'yet':49"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485494"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975943 {#1714
        date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 207711
    }
    8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2458
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2461 …}
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
      +body: "Where?"
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 2
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1701976885 {#2422
        date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
        "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
        "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2456 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2453 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2457 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2455 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2468 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2469 …}
      -id: 207782
      -bodyTs: ""
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485802"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701976885 {#2462
        date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 207782
    }
    5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2370 …}
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
      +body: "Don’t the two correlate?"
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 1
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1701977809 {#2471
        date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
        "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
        "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        "@archomrade@midwest.social"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2377 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2359 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2364 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2380 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2382 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2384 …}
      -id: 207842
      -bodyTs: "'correl':5 'two':4"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486088"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977809 {#2371
        date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 207842
    }
    6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906 …}
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
      +body: """
        > Well now i’m confused. If ‘labor theory of value isn’t objectively true’ isn’t making an argument about the price of a commodity not being equal to the labor it embodies, I am not sure what you’re trying to say by it.\n
        \n
        A theory o value doesn’t necessarily say anything about price. As you said: “value != price”.
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 1
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1701977944 {#2379
        date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
        "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
        "@archomrade@midwest.social"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1909 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1926 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1874 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1908 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1883 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2389 …}
      -id: 207854
      -bodyTs: "'anyth':54 'argument':19 'commod':25 'confus':5 'doesn':50 'embodi':33 'equal':28 'isn':11,15 'labor':7,31 'm':4 'make':17 'necessarili':52 'o':48 'object':13 'price':22,56,61 're':40 'said':59 'say':43,53 'sure':37 'theori':8,47 'tri':41 'true':14 'valu':10,49,60 'well':1"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486136"
      +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373971 {#2381
        date: 2023-12-24 00:26:11.0 +01:00
      }
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977944 {#2383
        date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 207854
    }
    4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2030 …}
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
      +body: """
        As far as I understand: Price tries to measure value. Therefore: A price needs a value, but value doesn’t need price. They correlate but are not the same.\n
        \n
        Were am I making the mistake? Genuine question.
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 1
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1701980069 {#1403
        date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
        "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
        "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        "@archomrade@midwest.social"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2032 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2024 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2018 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2011 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2021 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2029 …}
      -id: 207987
      -bodyTs: "'correl':24 'doesn':19 'far':2 'genuin':36 'make':33 'measur':9 'mistak':35 'need':14,21 'price':6,13,22 'question':37 'therefor':11 'tri':7 'understand':5 'valu':10,16,18"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487031"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980069 {#2019
        date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 207987
    }
    3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2393 …}
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
      +body: """
        There’s not even academical consensus what value actually *is*, AFAIK. Do preasts add value to anything with their labour? If not: Do social counsellors? What if a priest acts as a counsellor? Ask different economists with their theories of value and you’ll get several answers.\n
        \n
        Economic theories aren’t as rigid as theories from the natural sciences or mathematics. They are dependent on the culture in which they are perceived. A non-capitalist society would have different theories or value (or none at all) than we do.\n
        \n
        [This guy can explain it properly](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw), I’m not an economist and kinda regret making that comment.
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 6
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1701979923 {#2387
        date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
        "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
        "@JayDee@lemmy.ml"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1384 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1383 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1405 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1382 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1404 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1361 …}
      -id: 207981
      -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':99 'academ':5 'act':30 'actual':9 'add':14 'afaik':11 'answer':47 'anyth':17 'aren':50 'ask':34 'capitalist':76 'comment':110 'consensus':6 'counsellor':25,33 'cultur':67 'depend':64 'differ':35,80 'econom':48 'economist':36,104 'even':4 'explain':94 'get':45 'guy':92 'kinda':106 'labour':20 'll':44 'm':101 'make':108 'mathemat':61 'natur':58 'non':75 'non-capitalist':74 'none':85 'perceiv':72 'preast':13 'priest':29 'proper':96 'regret':107 'rigid':53 'scienc':59 'sever':46 'social':24 'societi':77 'theori':39,49,55,81 'valu':8,15,41,83 'would':78 'www.youtube.com':98 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':97"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486914"
      +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373897 {#2392
        date: 2023-12-24 00:24:57.0 +01:00
      }
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701979923 {#2394
        date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 207981
    }
    2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2062 …}
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
      +body: "I wouldn’t have been able to write it this consise, but that’s kind of one thing I wanted to point towards in my original comment."
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 1
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1701980622 {#2082
        date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
        "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
        "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2081 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2098 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2080 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2089 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2095 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2091 …}
      -id: 208044
      -bodyTs: "'abl':6 'comment':27 'consis':11 'kind':15 'one':17 'origin':26 'point':22 'thing':18 'toward':23 'want':20 'wouldn':2 'write':8"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487230"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980622 {#2085
        date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 208044
    }
    1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2035 …}
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
      +body: """
        It’s an economic theory and therefore more to be understood as a model on how economics work.\n
        \n
        The natural sciences have a hard core. The theory of gravity depends on how matter interacts in an objective, physical framework. Economic theories basically describe human interaction which are based on psychology and sociology. Therefore they depend on the societal context they are made in.\n
        \n
        If you understand them as models that are tools on how to understand the world, they become more useful in political analysis (I know we are in a meme community here, but everything is politics and so on and so on…).\n
        \n
        I do subscribe to many conclusions the labour theory of value and especially Marx came to. But I want y’all to *remember* that the theory is a mere tool for understanding and not a sacred, holy theory.
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 0
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1701980460 {#2020
        date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
        "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
        "@archomrade@midwest.social"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2031 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2037 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2075 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2079 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2078 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2097 …}
      -id: 208027
      -bodyTs: "'analysi':85 'base':48 'basic':42 'becom':80 'came':119 'communiti':93 'conclus':110 'context':59 'core':25 'depend':30,55 'describ':43 'econom':4,17,40 'especi':117 'everyth':96 'framework':39 'graviti':29 'hard':24 'holi':141 'human':44 'interact':34,45 'know':87 'labour':112 'made':62 'mani':109 'marx':118 'matter':33 'meme':92 'mere':133 'model':14,69 'natur':20 'object':37 'physic':38 'polit':84,98 'psycholog':50 'rememb':127 'sacr':140 'scienc':21 'societ':58 'sociolog':52 'subscrib':107 'theori':5,27,41,113,130,142 'therefor':7,53 'tool':72,134 'understand':66,76,136 'understood':11 'use':82 'valu':115 'want':123 'work':18 'world':78 'y':124"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487165"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980460 {#2013
        date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 208027
    }
    0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2094
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2241 …}
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
      +body: """
        > Why the neutral language all of a sudden?\n
        \n
        I was trying to be understood a bit better.\n
        \n
        > Are you trying to say 'all economic theories and models are not objectively true"?\n
        \n
        Not explicitally, but yeah: models aren’t used for “objective truth”. They’re used to *model* (i.e. simplify) reality to make observations and guesses for the future.\n
        \n
        > Why would that be worth saying in response to the OP?\n
        \n
        I feel like a lot of leftists think that understanding economics starts and ends with “capitalists exploit the labouring class”, while not actually engaging with the subject matter. I guess most can’t even explain LTV properly before getting mad at capitalists.\n
        \n
        As I’ve written before: I agree with most conclusions of marxist analysis that I know and I probably don’t even know half of them. But I think that political analysis should use LTV as a tool to understand the world and not the end of socio-economical disgussion (because that would ignore important parts of today’s economy).\n
        \n
        > It really just seems like you disagree with the ‘your stolen labor value’ claim in the OP, and are attributing it to the ‘labor theory of value’\n
        \n
        I don’t. I wanted to remind people as to make political analysis not too easy by taking the mental shortcut of reducing current capitalism on the problems pointed out by Marx rendition of LTV.\n
        \n
        > (as opposed to dismissing it because you disagree with some portion of the theory you’ve neglected to mention)\n
        \n
        I don’t disagree. I also don’t disagree with the atomic model of Niels Bohr when it comes to calculating electron potential. When it comes to observing e.g. electron spin, that particular model will probably fall flat. That doesn’t mean I “disagree” with the model, though.\n
        \n
        > My hunch is that you don’t feel confident enough in your understanding to make any kind of firm claim and are just dancing around making vague gestures toward ‘labor’ and ‘value’ definitions as a way of avoiding it.\n
        \n
        I’m not too confident in my economic knowledge, true. But I *am* quite confident in how models should be used in soft sciences.\n
        \n
        Addendum: I’d like to kindly ask you to give me a little bit of benefit of the doubt. Otherwise, I’ll just disengage due to that accusatory tone I’m getting from you being a bit exhausting.
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 0
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1701985632 {#2090
        date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
        "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
        "@archomrade@midwest.social"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2140 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2133 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2131 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2138 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2345 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2330 …}
      -id: 208351
      -bodyTs: "'accusatori':392 'actual':92 'addendum':365 'agre':118 'also':259 'analysi':124,143,212 'aren':37 'around':326 'ask':371 'atom':265 'attribut':192 'avoid':339 'benefit':380 'better':17 'bit':16,378,401 'bohr':269 'calcul':274 'capit':224 'capitalist':85,111 'claim':186,321 'class':89 'come':272,279 'conclus':121 'confid':310,345,355 'current':223 'd':367 'danc':325 'definit':334 'disagre':179,242,257,262,297 'disengag':388 'disguss':162 'dismiss':238 'doesn':293 'doubt':383 'due':389 'e.g':282 'easi':215 'econom':24,80,161,348 'economi':172 'electron':275,283 'end':83,157 'engag':93 'enough':311 'even':103,133 'exhaust':402 'explain':104 'explicit':33 'exploit':86 'fall':290 'feel':71,309 'firm':320 'flat':291 'futur':58 'gestur':329 'get':108,396 'give':374 'guess':55,99 'half':135 'hunch':303 'i.e':48 'ignor':166 'import':167 'kind':318,370 'know':127,134 'knowledg':349 'labor':184,196,331 'labour':88 'languag':4 'leftist':76 'like':72,177,368 'littl':377 'll':386 'lot':74 'ltv':105,146,234 'm':342,395 'mad':109 'make':52,210,316,327 'marx':231 'marxist':123 'matter':97 'mean':295 'mental':219 'mention':253 'model':27,36,47,266,287,300,358 'neglect':251 'neutral':3 'niel':268 'object':30,41 'observ':53,281 'op':69,189 'oppos':236 'otherwis':384 'part':168 'particular':286 'peopl':207 'point':228 'polit':142,211 'portion':245 'potenti':276 'probabl':130,289 'problem':227 'proper':106 'quit':354 're':44 'realiti':50 'realli':174 'reduc':222 'remind':206 'rendit':232 'respons':66 'say':22,64 'scienc':364 'seem':176 'shortcut':220 'simplifi':49 'socio':160 'socio-econom':159 'soft':363 'spin':284 'start':81 'stolen':183 'subject':96 'sudden':8 'take':217 'theori':25,197,248 'think':77,140 'though':301 'today':170 'tone':393 'tool':149 'toward':330 'tri':11,20 'true':31,350 'truth':42 'understand':79,151,314 'understood':14 'use':39,45,145,361 'vagu':328 'valu':185,199,333 've':114,250 'want':204 'way':337 'world':153 'worth':63 'would':60,165 'written':115 'yeah':35"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5489133"
      +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703384328 {#2093
        date: 2023-12-24 03:18:48.0 +01:00
      }
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701985632 {#2092
        date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 208351
    }
  ]
  -id: 20852
  -titleTs: "'enemi':3 'know':1"
  -bodyTs: null
  +cross: false
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +ranking: 1702038246
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://lemmy.ml/post/8990722"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701951846 {#2506
    date: 2023-12-07 13:24:06.0 +01:00
  }
  +__isInitialized__: true
   …2
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
3 DENIED edit 
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2003 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
  +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2559 …}
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2581 …}
  +slug: "Know-your-enemy"
  +title: "Know your enemy"
  +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/4e8abd58-e357-4836-88ce-d57b36597f6b.jpeg"
  +body: null
  +type: "image"
  +lang: "en"
  +isOc: false
  +hasEmbed: true
  +commentCount: 76
  +favouriteCount: 676
  +score: 0
  +isAdult: false
  +sticky: false
  +lastActive: DateTime @1702111873 {#2346
    date: 2023-12-09 09:51:13.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +adaAmount: 0
  +tags: null
  +mentions: null
  +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2580 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2578 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2575 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2609 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2605 …}
  +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2622 …}
  +children: [
    11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1604 …}
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: null
        +root: null
        +body: """
          Reminder that while the labour theory of value can be practical to understand certain aspects of society, it is still culturally biased and not “objectively” true.\n
          \n
          What creates value can only be answered in a cultural framework.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 12
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1703499828 {#1580
          date: 2023-12-25 11:23:48.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1561 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1564 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1563 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1565 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1558 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1557 …}
        -id: 206964
        -bodyTs: "'answer':33 'aspect':15 'bias':22 'certain':14 'creat':28 'cultur':21,36 'framework':37 'labour':5 'object':25 'practic':11 'remind':1 'societi':17 'still':20 'theori':6 'true':26 'understand':13 'valu':8,29"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5480766"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701964861 {#1550
          date: 2023-12-07 17:01:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 206964
      }
      +body: """
        You’re right. It’s *one* theory. There is however ongoing debate on which theory is “correct”.\n
        \n
        This vid explains it quite well and with Simpsons clips so the hour of video is bearable:\n
        \n
        [www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw)
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 2
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1701971365 {#1621
        date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
        "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
        "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1596 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1702 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1683 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1680 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1686 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1692 …}
      -id: 207387
      -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':37 'bearabl':34 'clip':27 'correct':17 'debat':12 'explain':20 'hour':30 'howev':10 'one':6 'ongo':11 'quit':22 're':2 'right':3 'simpson':26 'theori':7,15 'vid':19 'video':32 'well':23 'www.youtube.com':36 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':35"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5483715"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701971365 {#1620
        date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 207387
    }
    12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
    9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1721
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1726 …}
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
      +body: "Umm… Thanks for that unnecessarily aggressive seeming and a bit incompehensible addendum, I guess?"
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 4
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1701975001 {#1723
        date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
        "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
        "@archomrade@midwest.social"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1728 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1730 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1734 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1727 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1733 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1724 …}
      -id: 207642
      -bodyTs: "'addendum':12 'aggress':6 'bit':10 'guess':14 'incompehens':11 'seem':7 'thank':2 'umm':1 'unnecessarili':5"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485206"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975001 {#1722
        date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 207642
    }
    10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1616
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1611 …}
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
      +body: """
        I was talking about the theory, not value. Sorry if that didn’t come across.\n
        \n
        Now that I think about it: isn’t value culturally determined in many things? Why are apple products more expensive than other computers with the same specs? Why is a ticket to a Billie Eilish concert more valuable than one to my neighbor’s indie rock band?
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 2
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1701974894 {#1705
        date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
        "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
        "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1598 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1629 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1626 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1618 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1597 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1731 …}
      -id: 207637
      -bodyTs: "'across':15 'appl':32 'band':62 'billi':49 'come':14 'comput':38 'concert':51 'cultur':25 'determin':26 'didn':12 'eilish':50 'expens':35 'indi':60 'isn':22 'mani':28 'neighbor':58 'one':55 'product':33 'rock':61 'sorri':9 'spec':42 'talk':3 'theori':6 'thing':29 'think':19 'ticket':46 'valu':8,24 'valuabl':53"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485163"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701974894 {#1711
        date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 207637
    }
    7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1718
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1720 …}
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
      +body: """
        Sorry, I interpreted it as aggressive. Figuring out tone in text form is hard and all that. Sorry that I wrongly accused you.\n
        \n
        Things I didn’t get:\n
        \n
        > A reminder that the labour theory of value is not a marxist concept.\n
        \n
        Marx hasn’t been explicity brought up yet (at least not in my comment). Only implicitly in the original post. Again: thought you were attacking me and was like “umm… So what?”\n
        \n
        > When people wave their hands around and say “labor theory of value isn’t objectively true!!”, they’re shadowboxing a ghost.\n
        \n
        I thought you meant me, since that was what I was basically saying. 😅\n
        \n
        > Value != price\n
        \n
        Now, that one wasn’t even implicitly mentioned.\n
        \n
        I hope you don’t hold my misunderstanding against me.
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 3
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1701975943 {#1715
        date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
        "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
        "@archomrade@midwest.social"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1716 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1739 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1740 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2465 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2463 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2411 …}
      -id: 207711
      -bodyTs: "'accus':22 'aggress':6 'around':79 'attack':66 'basic':106 'brought':47 'comment':55 'concept':41 'didn':26 'even':115 'explic':46 'figur':7 'form':12 'get':28 'ghost':94 'hand':78 'hard':14 'hasn':43 'hold':123 'hope':119 'implicit':57,116 'interpret':3 'isn':86 'labor':82 'labour':33 'least':51 'like':70 'marx':42 'marxist':40 'meant':98 'mention':117 'misunderstand':125 'object':88 'one':112 'origin':60 'peopl':75 'post':61 'price':109 're':91 'remind':30 'say':81,107 'shadowbox':92 'sinc':100 'sorri':1,18 'text':11 'theori':34,83 'thing':24 'thought':63,96 'tone':9 'true':89 'umm':71 'valu':36,85,108 'wasn':113 'wave':76 'wrong':21 'yet':49"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485494"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975943 {#1714
        date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 207711
    }
    8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2458
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2461 …}
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
      +body: "Where?"
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 2
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1701976885 {#2422
        date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
        "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
        "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2456 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2453 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2457 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2455 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2468 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2469 …}
      -id: 207782
      -bodyTs: ""
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485802"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701976885 {#2462
        date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 207782
    }
    5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2370 …}
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
      +body: "Don’t the two correlate?"
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 1
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1701977809 {#2471
        date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
        "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
        "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        "@archomrade@midwest.social"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2377 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2359 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2364 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2380 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2382 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2384 …}
      -id: 207842
      -bodyTs: "'correl':5 'two':4"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486088"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977809 {#2371
        date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 207842
    }
    6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906 …}
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
      +body: """
        > Well now i’m confused. If ‘labor theory of value isn’t objectively true’ isn’t making an argument about the price of a commodity not being equal to the labor it embodies, I am not sure what you’re trying to say by it.\n
        \n
        A theory o value doesn’t necessarily say anything about price. As you said: “value != price”.
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 1
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1701977944 {#2379
        date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
        "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
        "@archomrade@midwest.social"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1909 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1926 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1874 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1908 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1883 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2389 …}
      -id: 207854
      -bodyTs: "'anyth':54 'argument':19 'commod':25 'confus':5 'doesn':50 'embodi':33 'equal':28 'isn':11,15 'labor':7,31 'm':4 'make':17 'necessarili':52 'o':48 'object':13 'price':22,56,61 're':40 'said':59 'say':43,53 'sure':37 'theori':8,47 'tri':41 'true':14 'valu':10,49,60 'well':1"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486136"
      +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373971 {#2381
        date: 2023-12-24 00:26:11.0 +01:00
      }
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977944 {#2383
        date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 207854
    }
    4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2030 …}
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
      +body: """
        As far as I understand: Price tries to measure value. Therefore: A price needs a value, but value doesn’t need price. They correlate but are not the same.\n
        \n
        Were am I making the mistake? Genuine question.
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 1
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1701980069 {#1403
        date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
        "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
        "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        "@archomrade@midwest.social"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2032 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2024 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2018 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2011 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2021 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2029 …}
      -id: 207987
      -bodyTs: "'correl':24 'doesn':19 'far':2 'genuin':36 'make':33 'measur':9 'mistak':35 'need':14,21 'price':6,13,22 'question':37 'therefor':11 'tri':7 'understand':5 'valu':10,16,18"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487031"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980069 {#2019
        date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 207987
    }
    3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2393 …}
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
      +body: """
        There’s not even academical consensus what value actually *is*, AFAIK. Do preasts add value to anything with their labour? If not: Do social counsellors? What if a priest acts as a counsellor? Ask different economists with their theories of value and you’ll get several answers.\n
        \n
        Economic theories aren’t as rigid as theories from the natural sciences or mathematics. They are dependent on the culture in which they are perceived. A non-capitalist society would have different theories or value (or none at all) than we do.\n
        \n
        [This guy can explain it properly](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw), I’m not an economist and kinda regret making that comment.
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 6
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1701979923 {#2387
        date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
        "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
        "@JayDee@lemmy.ml"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1384 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1383 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1405 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1382 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1404 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1361 …}
      -id: 207981
      -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':99 'academ':5 'act':30 'actual':9 'add':14 'afaik':11 'answer':47 'anyth':17 'aren':50 'ask':34 'capitalist':76 'comment':110 'consensus':6 'counsellor':25,33 'cultur':67 'depend':64 'differ':35,80 'econom':48 'economist':36,104 'even':4 'explain':94 'get':45 'guy':92 'kinda':106 'labour':20 'll':44 'm':101 'make':108 'mathemat':61 'natur':58 'non':75 'non-capitalist':74 'none':85 'perceiv':72 'preast':13 'priest':29 'proper':96 'regret':107 'rigid':53 'scienc':59 'sever':46 'social':24 'societi':77 'theori':39,49,55,81 'valu':8,15,41,83 'would':78 'www.youtube.com':98 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':97"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486914"
      +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373897 {#2392
        date: 2023-12-24 00:24:57.0 +01:00
      }
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701979923 {#2394
        date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 207981
    }
    2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2062 …}
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
      +body: "I wouldn’t have been able to write it this consise, but that’s kind of one thing I wanted to point towards in my original comment."
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 1
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1701980622 {#2082
        date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
        "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
        "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2081 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2098 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2080 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2089 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2095 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2091 …}
      -id: 208044
      -bodyTs: "'abl':6 'comment':27 'consis':11 'kind':15 'one':17 'origin':26 'point':22 'thing':18 'toward':23 'want':20 'wouldn':2 'write':8"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487230"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980622 {#2085
        date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 208044
    }
    1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2035 …}
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
      +body: """
        It’s an economic theory and therefore more to be understood as a model on how economics work.\n
        \n
        The natural sciences have a hard core. The theory of gravity depends on how matter interacts in an objective, physical framework. Economic theories basically describe human interaction which are based on psychology and sociology. Therefore they depend on the societal context they are made in.\n
        \n
        If you understand them as models that are tools on how to understand the world, they become more useful in political analysis (I know we are in a meme community here, but everything is politics and so on and so on…).\n
        \n
        I do subscribe to many conclusions the labour theory of value and especially Marx came to. But I want y’all to *remember* that the theory is a mere tool for understanding and not a sacred, holy theory.
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 0
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1701980460 {#2020
        date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
        "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
        "@archomrade@midwest.social"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2031 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2037 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2075 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2079 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2078 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2097 …}
      -id: 208027
      -bodyTs: "'analysi':85 'base':48 'basic':42 'becom':80 'came':119 'communiti':93 'conclus':110 'context':59 'core':25 'depend':30,55 'describ':43 'econom':4,17,40 'especi':117 'everyth':96 'framework':39 'graviti':29 'hard':24 'holi':141 'human':44 'interact':34,45 'know':87 'labour':112 'made':62 'mani':109 'marx':118 'matter':33 'meme':92 'mere':133 'model':14,69 'natur':20 'object':37 'physic':38 'polit':84,98 'psycholog':50 'rememb':127 'sacr':140 'scienc':21 'societ':58 'sociolog':52 'subscrib':107 'theori':5,27,41,113,130,142 'therefor':7,53 'tool':72,134 'understand':66,76,136 'understood':11 'use':82 'valu':115 'want':123 'work':18 'world':78 'y':124"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487165"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980460 {#2013
        date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 208027
    }
    0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2094
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2241 …}
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
      +body: """
        > Why the neutral language all of a sudden?\n
        \n
        I was trying to be understood a bit better.\n
        \n
        > Are you trying to say 'all economic theories and models are not objectively true"?\n
        \n
        Not explicitally, but yeah: models aren’t used for “objective truth”. They’re used to *model* (i.e. simplify) reality to make observations and guesses for the future.\n
        \n
        > Why would that be worth saying in response to the OP?\n
        \n
        I feel like a lot of leftists think that understanding economics starts and ends with “capitalists exploit the labouring class”, while not actually engaging with the subject matter. I guess most can’t even explain LTV properly before getting mad at capitalists.\n
        \n
        As I’ve written before: I agree with most conclusions of marxist analysis that I know and I probably don’t even know half of them. But I think that political analysis should use LTV as a tool to understand the world and not the end of socio-economical disgussion (because that would ignore important parts of today’s economy).\n
        \n
        > It really just seems like you disagree with the ‘your stolen labor value’ claim in the OP, and are attributing it to the ‘labor theory of value’\n
        \n
        I don’t. I wanted to remind people as to make political analysis not too easy by taking the mental shortcut of reducing current capitalism on the problems pointed out by Marx rendition of LTV.\n
        \n
        > (as opposed to dismissing it because you disagree with some portion of the theory you’ve neglected to mention)\n
        \n
        I don’t disagree. I also don’t disagree with the atomic model of Niels Bohr when it comes to calculating electron potential. When it comes to observing e.g. electron spin, that particular model will probably fall flat. That doesn’t mean I “disagree” with the model, though.\n
        \n
        > My hunch is that you don’t feel confident enough in your understanding to make any kind of firm claim and are just dancing around making vague gestures toward ‘labor’ and ‘value’ definitions as a way of avoiding it.\n
        \n
        I’m not too confident in my economic knowledge, true. But I *am* quite confident in how models should be used in soft sciences.\n
        \n
        Addendum: I’d like to kindly ask you to give me a little bit of benefit of the doubt. Otherwise, I’ll just disengage due to that accusatory tone I’m getting from you being a bit exhausting.
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 0
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1701985632 {#2090
        date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
        "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
        "@archomrade@midwest.social"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2140 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2133 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2131 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2138 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2345 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2330 …}
      -id: 208351
      -bodyTs: "'accusatori':392 'actual':92 'addendum':365 'agre':118 'also':259 'analysi':124,143,212 'aren':37 'around':326 'ask':371 'atom':265 'attribut':192 'avoid':339 'benefit':380 'better':17 'bit':16,378,401 'bohr':269 'calcul':274 'capit':224 'capitalist':85,111 'claim':186,321 'class':89 'come':272,279 'conclus':121 'confid':310,345,355 'current':223 'd':367 'danc':325 'definit':334 'disagre':179,242,257,262,297 'disengag':388 'disguss':162 'dismiss':238 'doesn':293 'doubt':383 'due':389 'e.g':282 'easi':215 'econom':24,80,161,348 'economi':172 'electron':275,283 'end':83,157 'engag':93 'enough':311 'even':103,133 'exhaust':402 'explain':104 'explicit':33 'exploit':86 'fall':290 'feel':71,309 'firm':320 'flat':291 'futur':58 'gestur':329 'get':108,396 'give':374 'guess':55,99 'half':135 'hunch':303 'i.e':48 'ignor':166 'import':167 'kind':318,370 'know':127,134 'knowledg':349 'labor':184,196,331 'labour':88 'languag':4 'leftist':76 'like':72,177,368 'littl':377 'll':386 'lot':74 'ltv':105,146,234 'm':342,395 'mad':109 'make':52,210,316,327 'marx':231 'marxist':123 'matter':97 'mean':295 'mental':219 'mention':253 'model':27,36,47,266,287,300,358 'neglect':251 'neutral':3 'niel':268 'object':30,41 'observ':53,281 'op':69,189 'oppos':236 'otherwis':384 'part':168 'particular':286 'peopl':207 'point':228 'polit':142,211 'portion':245 'potenti':276 'probabl':130,289 'problem':227 'proper':106 'quit':354 're':44 'realiti':50 'realli':174 'reduc':222 'remind':206 'rendit':232 'respons':66 'say':22,64 'scienc':364 'seem':176 'shortcut':220 'simplifi':49 'socio':160 'socio-econom':159 'soft':363 'spin':284 'start':81 'stolen':183 'subject':96 'sudden':8 'take':217 'theori':25,197,248 'think':77,140 'though':301 'today':170 'tone':393 'tool':149 'toward':330 'tri':11,20 'true':31,350 'truth':42 'understand':79,151,314 'understood':14 'use':39,45,145,361 'vagu':328 'valu':185,199,333 've':114,250 'want':204 'way':337 'world':153 'worth':63 'would':60,165 'written':115 'yeah':35"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5489133"
      +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703384328 {#2093
        date: 2023-12-24 03:18:48.0 +01:00
      }
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701985632 {#2092
        date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 208351
    }
  ]
  -id: 20852
  -titleTs: "'enemi':3 'know':1"
  -bodyTs: null
  +cross: false
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +ranking: 1702038246
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://lemmy.ml/post/8990722"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701951846 {#2506
    date: 2023-12-07 13:24:06.0 +01:00
  }
  +__isInitialized__: true
   …2
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
4 DENIED moderate 
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2003 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
  +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2559 …}
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2581 …}
  +slug: "Know-your-enemy"
  +title: "Know your enemy"
  +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/4e8abd58-e357-4836-88ce-d57b36597f6b.jpeg"
  +body: null
  +type: "image"
  +lang: "en"
  +isOc: false
  +hasEmbed: true
  +commentCount: 76
  +favouriteCount: 676
  +score: 0
  +isAdult: false
  +sticky: false
  +lastActive: DateTime @1702111873 {#2346
    date: 2023-12-09 09:51:13.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +adaAmount: 0
  +tags: null
  +mentions: null
  +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2580 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2578 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2575 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2609 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2605 …}
  +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2622 …}
  +children: [
    11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1604 …}
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: null
        +root: null
        +body: """
          Reminder that while the labour theory of value can be practical to understand certain aspects of society, it is still culturally biased and not “objectively” true.\n
          \n
          What creates value can only be answered in a cultural framework.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 12
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1703499828 {#1580
          date: 2023-12-25 11:23:48.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1561 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1564 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1563 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1565 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1558 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1557 …}
        -id: 206964
        -bodyTs: "'answer':33 'aspect':15 'bias':22 'certain':14 'creat':28 'cultur':21,36 'framework':37 'labour':5 'object':25 'practic':11 'remind':1 'societi':17 'still':20 'theori':6 'true':26 'understand':13 'valu':8,29"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5480766"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701964861 {#1550
          date: 2023-12-07 17:01:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 206964
      }
      +body: """
        You’re right. It’s *one* theory. There is however ongoing debate on which theory is “correct”.\n
        \n
        This vid explains it quite well and with Simpsons clips so the hour of video is bearable:\n
        \n
        [www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw)
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 2
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1701971365 {#1621
        date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
        "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
        "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1596 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1702 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1683 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1680 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1686 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1692 …}
      -id: 207387
      -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':37 'bearabl':34 'clip':27 'correct':17 'debat':12 'explain':20 'hour':30 'howev':10 'one':6 'ongo':11 'quit':22 're':2 'right':3 'simpson':26 'theori':7,15 'vid':19 'video':32 'well':23 'www.youtube.com':36 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':35"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5483715"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701971365 {#1620
        date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 207387
    }
    12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
    9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1721
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1726 …}
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
      +body: "Umm… Thanks for that unnecessarily aggressive seeming and a bit incompehensible addendum, I guess?"
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 4
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1701975001 {#1723
        date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
        "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
        "@archomrade@midwest.social"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1728 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1730 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1734 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1727 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1733 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1724 …}
      -id: 207642
      -bodyTs: "'addendum':12 'aggress':6 'bit':10 'guess':14 'incompehens':11 'seem':7 'thank':2 'umm':1 'unnecessarili':5"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485206"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975001 {#1722
        date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 207642
    }
    10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1616
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1611 …}
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
      +body: """
        I was talking about the theory, not value. Sorry if that didn’t come across.\n
        \n
        Now that I think about it: isn’t value culturally determined in many things? Why are apple products more expensive than other computers with the same specs? Why is a ticket to a Billie Eilish concert more valuable than one to my neighbor’s indie rock band?
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 2
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1701974894 {#1705
        date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
        "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
        "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1598 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1629 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1626 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1618 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1597 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1731 …}
      -id: 207637
      -bodyTs: "'across':15 'appl':32 'band':62 'billi':49 'come':14 'comput':38 'concert':51 'cultur':25 'determin':26 'didn':12 'eilish':50 'expens':35 'indi':60 'isn':22 'mani':28 'neighbor':58 'one':55 'product':33 'rock':61 'sorri':9 'spec':42 'talk':3 'theori':6 'thing':29 'think':19 'ticket':46 'valu':8,24 'valuabl':53"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485163"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701974894 {#1711
        date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 207637
    }
    7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1718
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1720 …}
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
      +body: """
        Sorry, I interpreted it as aggressive. Figuring out tone in text form is hard and all that. Sorry that I wrongly accused you.\n
        \n
        Things I didn’t get:\n
        \n
        > A reminder that the labour theory of value is not a marxist concept.\n
        \n
        Marx hasn’t been explicity brought up yet (at least not in my comment). Only implicitly in the original post. Again: thought you were attacking me and was like “umm… So what?”\n
        \n
        > When people wave their hands around and say “labor theory of value isn’t objectively true!!”, they’re shadowboxing a ghost.\n
        \n
        I thought you meant me, since that was what I was basically saying. 😅\n
        \n
        > Value != price\n
        \n
        Now, that one wasn’t even implicitly mentioned.\n
        \n
        I hope you don’t hold my misunderstanding against me.
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 3
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1701975943 {#1715
        date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
        "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
        "@archomrade@midwest.social"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1716 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1739 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1740 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2465 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2463 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2411 …}
      -id: 207711
      -bodyTs: "'accus':22 'aggress':6 'around':79 'attack':66 'basic':106 'brought':47 'comment':55 'concept':41 'didn':26 'even':115 'explic':46 'figur':7 'form':12 'get':28 'ghost':94 'hand':78 'hard':14 'hasn':43 'hold':123 'hope':119 'implicit':57,116 'interpret':3 'isn':86 'labor':82 'labour':33 'least':51 'like':70 'marx':42 'marxist':40 'meant':98 'mention':117 'misunderstand':125 'object':88 'one':112 'origin':60 'peopl':75 'post':61 'price':109 're':91 'remind':30 'say':81,107 'shadowbox':92 'sinc':100 'sorri':1,18 'text':11 'theori':34,83 'thing':24 'thought':63,96 'tone':9 'true':89 'umm':71 'valu':36,85,108 'wasn':113 'wave':76 'wrong':21 'yet':49"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485494"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975943 {#1714
        date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 207711
    }
    8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2458
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2461 …}
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
      +body: "Where?"
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 2
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1701976885 {#2422
        date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
        "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
        "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2456 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2453 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2457 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2455 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2468 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2469 …}
      -id: 207782
      -bodyTs: ""
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485802"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701976885 {#2462
        date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 207782
    }
    5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2370 …}
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
      +body: "Don’t the two correlate?"
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 1
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1701977809 {#2471
        date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
        "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
        "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        "@archomrade@midwest.social"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2377 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2359 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2364 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2380 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2382 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2384 …}
      -id: 207842
      -bodyTs: "'correl':5 'two':4"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486088"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977809 {#2371
        date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 207842
    }
    6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906 …}
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
      +body: """
        > Well now i’m confused. If ‘labor theory of value isn’t objectively true’ isn’t making an argument about the price of a commodity not being equal to the labor it embodies, I am not sure what you’re trying to say by it.\n
        \n
        A theory o value doesn’t necessarily say anything about price. As you said: “value != price”.
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 1
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1701977944 {#2379
        date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
        "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
        "@archomrade@midwest.social"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1909 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1926 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1874 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1908 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1883 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2389 …}
      -id: 207854
      -bodyTs: "'anyth':54 'argument':19 'commod':25 'confus':5 'doesn':50 'embodi':33 'equal':28 'isn':11,15 'labor':7,31 'm':4 'make':17 'necessarili':52 'o':48 'object':13 'price':22,56,61 're':40 'said':59 'say':43,53 'sure':37 'theori':8,47 'tri':41 'true':14 'valu':10,49,60 'well':1"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486136"
      +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373971 {#2381
        date: 2023-12-24 00:26:11.0 +01:00
      }
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977944 {#2383
        date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 207854
    }
    4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2030 …}
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
      +body: """
        As far as I understand: Price tries to measure value. Therefore: A price needs a value, but value doesn’t need price. They correlate but are not the same.\n
        \n
        Were am I making the mistake? Genuine question.
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 1
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1701980069 {#1403
        date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
        "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
        "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        "@archomrade@midwest.social"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2032 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2024 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2018 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2011 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2021 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2029 …}
      -id: 207987
      -bodyTs: "'correl':24 'doesn':19 'far':2 'genuin':36 'make':33 'measur':9 'mistak':35 'need':14,21 'price':6,13,22 'question':37 'therefor':11 'tri':7 'understand':5 'valu':10,16,18"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487031"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980069 {#2019
        date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 207987
    }
    3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2393 …}
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
      +body: """
        There’s not even academical consensus what value actually *is*, AFAIK. Do preasts add value to anything with their labour? If not: Do social counsellors? What if a priest acts as a counsellor? Ask different economists with their theories of value and you’ll get several answers.\n
        \n
        Economic theories aren’t as rigid as theories from the natural sciences or mathematics. They are dependent on the culture in which they are perceived. A non-capitalist society would have different theories or value (or none at all) than we do.\n
        \n
        [This guy can explain it properly](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw), I’m not an economist and kinda regret making that comment.
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 6
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1701979923 {#2387
        date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
        "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
        "@JayDee@lemmy.ml"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1384 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1383 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1405 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1382 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1404 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1361 …}
      -id: 207981
      -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':99 'academ':5 'act':30 'actual':9 'add':14 'afaik':11 'answer':47 'anyth':17 'aren':50 'ask':34 'capitalist':76 'comment':110 'consensus':6 'counsellor':25,33 'cultur':67 'depend':64 'differ':35,80 'econom':48 'economist':36,104 'even':4 'explain':94 'get':45 'guy':92 'kinda':106 'labour':20 'll':44 'm':101 'make':108 'mathemat':61 'natur':58 'non':75 'non-capitalist':74 'none':85 'perceiv':72 'preast':13 'priest':29 'proper':96 'regret':107 'rigid':53 'scienc':59 'sever':46 'social':24 'societi':77 'theori':39,49,55,81 'valu':8,15,41,83 'would':78 'www.youtube.com':98 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':97"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486914"
      +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373897 {#2392
        date: 2023-12-24 00:24:57.0 +01:00
      }
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701979923 {#2394
        date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 207981
    }
    2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2062 …}
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
      +body: "I wouldn’t have been able to write it this consise, but that’s kind of one thing I wanted to point towards in my original comment."
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 1
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1701980622 {#2082
        date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
        "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
        "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2081 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2098 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2080 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2089 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2095 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2091 …}
      -id: 208044
      -bodyTs: "'abl':6 'comment':27 'consis':11 'kind':15 'one':17 'origin':26 'point':22 'thing':18 'toward':23 'want':20 'wouldn':2 'write':8"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487230"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980622 {#2085
        date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 208044
    }
    1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2035 …}
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
      +body: """
        It’s an economic theory and therefore more to be understood as a model on how economics work.\n
        \n
        The natural sciences have a hard core. The theory of gravity depends on how matter interacts in an objective, physical framework. Economic theories basically describe human interaction which are based on psychology and sociology. Therefore they depend on the societal context they are made in.\n
        \n
        If you understand them as models that are tools on how to understand the world, they become more useful in political analysis (I know we are in a meme community here, but everything is politics and so on and so on…).\n
        \n
        I do subscribe to many conclusions the labour theory of value and especially Marx came to. But I want y’all to *remember* that the theory is a mere tool for understanding and not a sacred, holy theory.
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 0
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1701980460 {#2020
        date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
        "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
        "@archomrade@midwest.social"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2031 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2037 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2075 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2079 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2078 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2097 …}
      -id: 208027
      -bodyTs: "'analysi':85 'base':48 'basic':42 'becom':80 'came':119 'communiti':93 'conclus':110 'context':59 'core':25 'depend':30,55 'describ':43 'econom':4,17,40 'especi':117 'everyth':96 'framework':39 'graviti':29 'hard':24 'holi':141 'human':44 'interact':34,45 'know':87 'labour':112 'made':62 'mani':109 'marx':118 'matter':33 'meme':92 'mere':133 'model':14,69 'natur':20 'object':37 'physic':38 'polit':84,98 'psycholog':50 'rememb':127 'sacr':140 'scienc':21 'societ':58 'sociolog':52 'subscrib':107 'theori':5,27,41,113,130,142 'therefor':7,53 'tool':72,134 'understand':66,76,136 'understood':11 'use':82 'valu':115 'want':123 'work':18 'world':78 'y':124"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487165"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980460 {#2013
        date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 208027
    }
    0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2094
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2241 …}
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
      +body: """
        > Why the neutral language all of a sudden?\n
        \n
        I was trying to be understood a bit better.\n
        \n
        > Are you trying to say 'all economic theories and models are not objectively true"?\n
        \n
        Not explicitally, but yeah: models aren’t used for “objective truth”. They’re used to *model* (i.e. simplify) reality to make observations and guesses for the future.\n
        \n
        > Why would that be worth saying in response to the OP?\n
        \n
        I feel like a lot of leftists think that understanding economics starts and ends with “capitalists exploit the labouring class”, while not actually engaging with the subject matter. I guess most can’t even explain LTV properly before getting mad at capitalists.\n
        \n
        As I’ve written before: I agree with most conclusions of marxist analysis that I know and I probably don’t even know half of them. But I think that political analysis should use LTV as a tool to understand the world and not the end of socio-economical disgussion (because that would ignore important parts of today’s economy).\n
        \n
        > It really just seems like you disagree with the ‘your stolen labor value’ claim in the OP, and are attributing it to the ‘labor theory of value’\n
        \n
        I don’t. I wanted to remind people as to make political analysis not too easy by taking the mental shortcut of reducing current capitalism on the problems pointed out by Marx rendition of LTV.\n
        \n
        > (as opposed to dismissing it because you disagree with some portion of the theory you’ve neglected to mention)\n
        \n
        I don’t disagree. I also don’t disagree with the atomic model of Niels Bohr when it comes to calculating electron potential. When it comes to observing e.g. electron spin, that particular model will probably fall flat. That doesn’t mean I “disagree” with the model, though.\n
        \n
        > My hunch is that you don’t feel confident enough in your understanding to make any kind of firm claim and are just dancing around making vague gestures toward ‘labor’ and ‘value’ definitions as a way of avoiding it.\n
        \n
        I’m not too confident in my economic knowledge, true. But I *am* quite confident in how models should be used in soft sciences.\n
        \n
        Addendum: I’d like to kindly ask you to give me a little bit of benefit of the doubt. Otherwise, I’ll just disengage due to that accusatory tone I’m getting from you being a bit exhausting.
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 0
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1701985632 {#2090
        date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
        "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
        "@archomrade@midwest.social"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2140 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2133 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2131 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2138 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2345 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2330 …}
      -id: 208351
      -bodyTs: "'accusatori':392 'actual':92 'addendum':365 'agre':118 'also':259 'analysi':124,143,212 'aren':37 'around':326 'ask':371 'atom':265 'attribut':192 'avoid':339 'benefit':380 'better':17 'bit':16,378,401 'bohr':269 'calcul':274 'capit':224 'capitalist':85,111 'claim':186,321 'class':89 'come':272,279 'conclus':121 'confid':310,345,355 'current':223 'd':367 'danc':325 'definit':334 'disagre':179,242,257,262,297 'disengag':388 'disguss':162 'dismiss':238 'doesn':293 'doubt':383 'due':389 'e.g':282 'easi':215 'econom':24,80,161,348 'economi':172 'electron':275,283 'end':83,157 'engag':93 'enough':311 'even':103,133 'exhaust':402 'explain':104 'explicit':33 'exploit':86 'fall':290 'feel':71,309 'firm':320 'flat':291 'futur':58 'gestur':329 'get':108,396 'give':374 'guess':55,99 'half':135 'hunch':303 'i.e':48 'ignor':166 'import':167 'kind':318,370 'know':127,134 'knowledg':349 'labor':184,196,331 'labour':88 'languag':4 'leftist':76 'like':72,177,368 'littl':377 'll':386 'lot':74 'ltv':105,146,234 'm':342,395 'mad':109 'make':52,210,316,327 'marx':231 'marxist':123 'matter':97 'mean':295 'mental':219 'mention':253 'model':27,36,47,266,287,300,358 'neglect':251 'neutral':3 'niel':268 'object':30,41 'observ':53,281 'op':69,189 'oppos':236 'otherwis':384 'part':168 'particular':286 'peopl':207 'point':228 'polit':142,211 'portion':245 'potenti':276 'probabl':130,289 'problem':227 'proper':106 'quit':354 're':44 'realiti':50 'realli':174 'reduc':222 'remind':206 'rendit':232 'respons':66 'say':22,64 'scienc':364 'seem':176 'shortcut':220 'simplifi':49 'socio':160 'socio-econom':159 'soft':363 'spin':284 'start':81 'stolen':183 'subject':96 'sudden':8 'take':217 'theori':25,197,248 'think':77,140 'though':301 'today':170 'tone':393 'tool':149 'toward':330 'tri':11,20 'true':31,350 'truth':42 'understand':79,151,314 'understood':14 'use':39,45,145,361 'vagu':328 'valu':185,199,333 've':114,250 'want':204 'way':337 'world':153 'worth':63 'would':60,165 'written':115 'yeah':35"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5489133"
      +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703384328 {#2093
        date: 2023-12-24 03:18:48.0 +01:00
      }
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701985632 {#2092
        date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 208351
    }
  ]
  -id: 20852
  -titleTs: "'enemi':3 'know':1"
  -bodyTs: null
  +cross: false
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +ranking: 1702038246
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://lemmy.ml/post/8990722"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701951846 {#2506
    date: 2023-12-07 13:24:06.0 +01:00
  }
  +__isInitialized__: true
   …2
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
5 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
6 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2003 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2559 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2581 …}
    +slug: "Know-your-enemy"
    +title: "Know your enemy"
    +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/4e8abd58-e357-4836-88ce-d57b36597f6b.jpeg"
    +body: null
    +type: "image"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: true
    +commentCount: 76
    +favouriteCount: 676
    +score: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +sticky: false
    +lastActive: DateTime @1702111873 {#2346
      date: 2023-12-09 09:51:13.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2580 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2578 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2575 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2609 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2605 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2622 …}
    +children: [
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613}
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: null
        +root: null
        +body: """
          Reminder that while the labour theory of value can be practical to understand certain aspects of society, it is still culturally biased and not “objectively” true.\n
          \n
          What creates value can only be answered in a cultural framework.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 12
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1703499828 {#1580
          date: 2023-12-25 11:23:48.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1561 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1564 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1563 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1565 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1558 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1557 …}
        -id: 206964
        -bodyTs: "'answer':33 'aspect':15 'bias':22 'certain':14 'creat':28 'cultur':21,36 'framework':37 'labour':5 'object':25 'practic':11 'remind':1 'societi':17 'still':20 'theori':6 'true':26 'understand':13 'valu':8,29"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5480766"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701964861 {#1550
          date: 2023-12-07 17:01:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 206964
      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1721
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1726 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Umm… Thanks for that unnecessarily aggressive seeming and a bit incompehensible addendum, I guess?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 4
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701975001 {#1723
          date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1728 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1730 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1734 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1727 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1733 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1724 …}
        -id: 207642
        -bodyTs: "'addendum':12 'aggress':6 'bit':10 'guess':14 'incompehens':11 'seem':7 'thank':2 'umm':1 'unnecessarili':5"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485206"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975001 {#1722
          date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207642
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1616
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1611 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          I was talking about the theory, not value. Sorry if that didn’t come across.\n
          \n
          Now that I think about it: isn’t value culturally determined in many things? Why are apple products more expensive than other computers with the same specs? Why is a ticket to a Billie Eilish concert more valuable than one to my neighbor’s indie rock band?
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701974894 {#1705
          date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1598 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1629 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1626 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1618 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1597 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1731 …}
        -id: 207637
        -bodyTs: "'across':15 'appl':32 'band':62 'billi':49 'come':14 'comput':38 'concert':51 'cultur':25 'determin':26 'didn':12 'eilish':50 'expens':35 'indi':60 'isn':22 'mani':28 'neighbor':58 'one':55 'product':33 'rock':61 'sorri':9 'spec':42 'talk':3 'theori':6 'thing':29 'think':19 'ticket':46 'valu':8,24 'valuabl':53"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485163"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701974894 {#1711
          date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207637
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1718
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1720 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          Sorry, I interpreted it as aggressive. Figuring out tone in text form is hard and all that. Sorry that I wrongly accused you.\n
          \n
          Things I didn’t get:\n
          \n
          > A reminder that the labour theory of value is not a marxist concept.\n
          \n
          Marx hasn’t been explicity brought up yet (at least not in my comment). Only implicitly in the original post. Again: thought you were attacking me and was like “umm… So what?”\n
          \n
          > When people wave their hands around and say “labor theory of value isn’t objectively true!!”, they’re shadowboxing a ghost.\n
          \n
          I thought you meant me, since that was what I was basically saying. 😅\n
          \n
          > Value != price\n
          \n
          Now, that one wasn’t even implicitly mentioned.\n
          \n
          I hope you don’t hold my misunderstanding against me.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 3
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701975943 {#1715
          date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1716 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1739 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1740 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2465 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2463 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2411 …}
        -id: 207711
        -bodyTs: "'accus':22 'aggress':6 'around':79 'attack':66 'basic':106 'brought':47 'comment':55 'concept':41 'didn':26 'even':115 'explic':46 'figur':7 'form':12 'get':28 'ghost':94 'hand':78 'hard':14 'hasn':43 'hold':123 'hope':119 'implicit':57,116 'interpret':3 'isn':86 'labor':82 'labour':33 'least':51 'like':70 'marx':42 'marxist':40 'meant':98 'mention':117 'misunderstand':125 'object':88 'one':112 'origin':60 'peopl':75 'post':61 'price':109 're':91 'remind':30 'say':81,107 'shadowbox':92 'sinc':100 'sorri':1,18 'text':11 'theori':34,83 'thing':24 'thought':63,96 'tone':9 'true':89 'umm':71 'valu':36,85,108 'wasn':113 'wave':76 'wrong':21 'yet':49"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485494"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975943 {#1714
          date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207711
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2458
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2461 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Where?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701976885 {#2422
          date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2456 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2453 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2457 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2455 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2468 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2469 …}
        -id: 207782
        -bodyTs: ""
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485802"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701976885 {#2462
          date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207782
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2370 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Don’t the two correlate?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701977809 {#2471
          date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2377 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2359 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2364 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2380 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2382 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2384 …}
        -id: 207842
        -bodyTs: "'correl':5 'two':4"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486088"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977809 {#2371
          date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207842
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          > Well now i’m confused. If ‘labor theory of value isn’t objectively true’ isn’t making an argument about the price of a commodity not being equal to the labor it embodies, I am not sure what you’re trying to say by it.\n
          \n
          A theory o value doesn’t necessarily say anything about price. As you said: “value != price”.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701977944 {#2379
          date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1909 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1926 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1874 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1908 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1883 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2389 …}
        -id: 207854
        -bodyTs: "'anyth':54 'argument':19 'commod':25 'confus':5 'doesn':50 'embodi':33 'equal':28 'isn':11,15 'labor':7,31 'm':4 'make':17 'necessarili':52 'o':48 'object':13 'price':22,56,61 're':40 'said':59 'say':43,53 'sure':37 'theori':8,47 'tri':41 'true':14 'valu':10,49,60 'well':1"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486136"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373971 {#2381
          date: 2023-12-24 00:26:11.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977944 {#2383
          date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207854
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2030 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          As far as I understand: Price tries to measure value. Therefore: A price needs a value, but value doesn’t need price. They correlate but are not the same.\n
          \n
          Were am I making the mistake? Genuine question.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980069 {#1403
          date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2032 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2024 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2018 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2011 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2021 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2029 …}
        -id: 207987
        -bodyTs: "'correl':24 'doesn':19 'far':2 'genuin':36 'make':33 'measur':9 'mistak':35 'need':14,21 'price':6,13,22 'question':37 'therefor':11 'tri':7 'understand':5 'valu':10,16,18"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487031"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980069 {#2019
          date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207987
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2393 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          There’s not even academical consensus what value actually *is*, AFAIK. Do preasts add value to anything with their labour? If not: Do social counsellors? What if a priest acts as a counsellor? Ask different economists with their theories of value and you’ll get several answers.\n
          \n
          Economic theories aren’t as rigid as theories from the natural sciences or mathematics. They are dependent on the culture in which they are perceived. A non-capitalist society would have different theories or value (or none at all) than we do.\n
          \n
          [This guy can explain it properly](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw), I’m not an economist and kinda regret making that comment.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 6
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701979923 {#2387
          date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@JayDee@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1384 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1383 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1405 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1382 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1404 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1361 …}
        -id: 207981
        -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':99 'academ':5 'act':30 'actual':9 'add':14 'afaik':11 'answer':47 'anyth':17 'aren':50 'ask':34 'capitalist':76 'comment':110 'consensus':6 'counsellor':25,33 'cultur':67 'depend':64 'differ':35,80 'econom':48 'economist':36,104 'even':4 'explain':94 'get':45 'guy':92 'kinda':106 'labour':20 'll':44 'm':101 'make':108 'mathemat':61 'natur':58 'non':75 'non-capitalist':74 'none':85 'perceiv':72 'preast':13 'priest':29 'proper':96 'regret':107 'rigid':53 'scienc':59 'sever':46 'social':24 'societi':77 'theori':39,49,55,81 'valu':8,15,41,83 'would':78 'www.youtube.com':98 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':97"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486914"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373897 {#2392
          date: 2023-12-24 00:24:57.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701979923 {#2394
          date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207981
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2062 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "I wouldn’t have been able to write it this consise, but that’s kind of one thing I wanted to point towards in my original comment."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980622 {#2082
          date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2081 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2098 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2080 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2089 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2095 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2091 …}
        -id: 208044
        -bodyTs: "'abl':6 'comment':27 'consis':11 'kind':15 'one':17 'origin':26 'point':22 'thing':18 'toward':23 'want':20 'wouldn':2 'write':8"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487230"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980622 {#2085
          date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208044
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2035 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          It’s an economic theory and therefore more to be understood as a model on how economics work.\n
          \n
          The natural sciences have a hard core. The theory of gravity depends on how matter interacts in an objective, physical framework. Economic theories basically describe human interaction which are based on psychology and sociology. Therefore they depend on the societal context they are made in.\n
          \n
          If you understand them as models that are tools on how to understand the world, they become more useful in political analysis (I know we are in a meme community here, but everything is politics and so on and so on…).\n
          \n
          I do subscribe to many conclusions the labour theory of value and especially Marx came to. But I want y’all to *remember* that the theory is a mere tool for understanding and not a sacred, holy theory.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980460 {#2020
          date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2031 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2037 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2075 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2079 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2078 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2097 …}
        -id: 208027
        -bodyTs: "'analysi':85 'base':48 'basic':42 'becom':80 'came':119 'communiti':93 'conclus':110 'context':59 'core':25 'depend':30,55 'describ':43 'econom':4,17,40 'especi':117 'everyth':96 'framework':39 'graviti':29 'hard':24 'holi':141 'human':44 'interact':34,45 'know':87 'labour':112 'made':62 'mani':109 'marx':118 'matter':33 'meme':92 'mere':133 'model':14,69 'natur':20 'object':37 'physic':38 'polit':84,98 'psycholog':50 'rememb':127 'sacr':140 'scienc':21 'societ':58 'sociolog':52 'subscrib':107 'theori':5,27,41,113,130,142 'therefor':7,53 'tool':72,134 'understand':66,76,136 'understood':11 'use':82 'valu':115 'want':123 'work':18 'world':78 'y':124"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487165"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980460 {#2013
          date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208027
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2094
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2241 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          > Why the neutral language all of a sudden?\n
          \n
          I was trying to be understood a bit better.\n
          \n
          > Are you trying to say 'all economic theories and models are not objectively true"?\n
          \n
          Not explicitally, but yeah: models aren’t used for “objective truth”. They’re used to *model* (i.e. simplify) reality to make observations and guesses for the future.\n
          \n
          > Why would that be worth saying in response to the OP?\n
          \n
          I feel like a lot of leftists think that understanding economics starts and ends with “capitalists exploit the labouring class”, while not actually engaging with the subject matter. I guess most can’t even explain LTV properly before getting mad at capitalists.\n
          \n
          As I’ve written before: I agree with most conclusions of marxist analysis that I know and I probably don’t even know half of them. But I think that political analysis should use LTV as a tool to understand the world and not the end of socio-economical disgussion (because that would ignore important parts of today’s economy).\n
          \n
          > It really just seems like you disagree with the ‘your stolen labor value’ claim in the OP, and are attributing it to the ‘labor theory of value’\n
          \n
          I don’t. I wanted to remind people as to make political analysis not too easy by taking the mental shortcut of reducing current capitalism on the problems pointed out by Marx rendition of LTV.\n
          \n
          > (as opposed to dismissing it because you disagree with some portion of the theory you’ve neglected to mention)\n
          \n
          I don’t disagree. I also don’t disagree with the atomic model of Niels Bohr when it comes to calculating electron potential. When it comes to observing e.g. electron spin, that particular model will probably fall flat. That doesn’t mean I “disagree” with the model, though.\n
          \n
          > My hunch is that you don’t feel confident enough in your understanding to make any kind of firm claim and are just dancing around making vague gestures toward ‘labor’ and ‘value’ definitions as a way of avoiding it.\n
          \n
          I’m not too confident in my economic knowledge, true. But I *am* quite confident in how models should be used in soft sciences.\n
          \n
          Addendum: I’d like to kindly ask you to give me a little bit of benefit of the doubt. Otherwise, I’ll just disengage due to that accusatory tone I’m getting from you being a bit exhausting.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701985632 {#2090
          date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2140 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2133 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2131 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2138 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2345 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2330 …}
        -id: 208351
        -bodyTs: "'accusatori':392 'actual':92 'addendum':365 'agre':118 'also':259 'analysi':124,143,212 'aren':37 'around':326 'ask':371 'atom':265 'attribut':192 'avoid':339 'benefit':380 'better':17 'bit':16,378,401 'bohr':269 'calcul':274 'capit':224 'capitalist':85,111 'claim':186,321 'class':89 'come':272,279 'conclus':121 'confid':310,345,355 'current':223 'd':367 'danc':325 'definit':334 'disagre':179,242,257,262,297 'disengag':388 'disguss':162 'dismiss':238 'doesn':293 'doubt':383 'due':389 'e.g':282 'easi':215 'econom':24,80,161,348 'economi':172 'electron':275,283 'end':83,157 'engag':93 'enough':311 'even':103,133 'exhaust':402 'explain':104 'explicit':33 'exploit':86 'fall':290 'feel':71,309 'firm':320 'flat':291 'futur':58 'gestur':329 'get':108,396 'give':374 'guess':55,99 'half':135 'hunch':303 'i.e':48 'ignor':166 'import':167 'kind':318,370 'know':127,134 'knowledg':349 'labor':184,196,331 'labour':88 'languag':4 'leftist':76 'like':72,177,368 'littl':377 'll':386 'lot':74 'ltv':105,146,234 'm':342,395 'mad':109 'make':52,210,316,327 'marx':231 'marxist':123 'matter':97 'mean':295 'mental':219 'mention':253 'model':27,36,47,266,287,300,358 'neglect':251 'neutral':3 'niel':268 'object':30,41 'observ':53,281 'op':69,189 'oppos':236 'otherwis':384 'part':168 'particular':286 'peopl':207 'point':228 'polit':142,211 'portion':245 'potenti':276 'probabl':130,289 'problem':227 'proper':106 'quit':354 're':44 'realiti':50 'realli':174 'reduc':222 'remind':206 'rendit':232 'respons':66 'say':22,64 'scienc':364 'seem':176 'shortcut':220 'simplifi':49 'socio':160 'socio-econom':159 'soft':363 'spin':284 'start':81 'stolen':183 'subject':96 'sudden':8 'take':217 'theori':25,197,248 'think':77,140 'though':301 'today':170 'tone':393 'tool':149 'toward':330 'tri':11,20 'true':31,350 'truth':42 'understand':79,151,314 'understood':14 'use':39,45,145,361 'vagu':328 'valu':185,199,333 've':114,250 'want':204 'way':337 'world':153 'worth':63 'would':60,165 'written':115 'yeah':35"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5489133"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703384328 {#2093
          date: 2023-12-24 03:18:48.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701985632 {#2092
          date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208351
      }
    ]
    -id: 20852
    -titleTs: "'enemi':3 'know':1"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1702038246
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemmy.ml/post/8990722"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701951846 {#2506
      date: 2023-12-07 13:24:06.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1604 …}
  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
  +body: """
    You’re right. It’s *one* theory. There is however ongoing debate on which theory is “correct”.\n
    \n
    This vid explains it quite well and with Simpsons clips so the hour of video is bearable:\n
    \n
    [www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw)
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 2
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1701971365 {#1621
    date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
    "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
    "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1596 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1702 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1683 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1680 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1686 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1692 …}
  -id: 207387
  -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':37 'bearabl':34 'clip':27 'correct':17 'debat':12 'explain':20 'hour':30 'howev':10 'one':6 'ongo':11 'quit':22 're':2 'right':3 'simpson':26 'theori':7,15 'vid':19 'video':32 'well':23 'www.youtube.com':36 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':35"
  +ranking: 0
  +commentCount: 0
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5483715"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701971365 {#1620
    date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 207387
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
7 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2003 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2559 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2581 …}
    +slug: "Know-your-enemy"
    +title: "Know your enemy"
    +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/4e8abd58-e357-4836-88ce-d57b36597f6b.jpeg"
    +body: null
    +type: "image"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: true
    +commentCount: 76
    +favouriteCount: 676
    +score: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +sticky: false
    +lastActive: DateTime @1702111873 {#2346
      date: 2023-12-09 09:51:13.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2580 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2578 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2575 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2609 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2605 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2622 …}
    +children: [
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613}
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: null
        +root: null
        +body: """
          Reminder that while the labour theory of value can be practical to understand certain aspects of society, it is still culturally biased and not “objectively” true.\n
          \n
          What creates value can only be answered in a cultural framework.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 12
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1703499828 {#1580
          date: 2023-12-25 11:23:48.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1561 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1564 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1563 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1565 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1558 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1557 …}
        -id: 206964
        -bodyTs: "'answer':33 'aspect':15 'bias':22 'certain':14 'creat':28 'cultur':21,36 'framework':37 'labour':5 'object':25 'practic':11 'remind':1 'societi':17 'still':20 'theori':6 'true':26 'understand':13 'valu':8,29"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5480766"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701964861 {#1550
          date: 2023-12-07 17:01:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 206964
      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1721
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1726 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Umm… Thanks for that unnecessarily aggressive seeming and a bit incompehensible addendum, I guess?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 4
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701975001 {#1723
          date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1728 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1730 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1734 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1727 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1733 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1724 …}
        -id: 207642
        -bodyTs: "'addendum':12 'aggress':6 'bit':10 'guess':14 'incompehens':11 'seem':7 'thank':2 'umm':1 'unnecessarili':5"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485206"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975001 {#1722
          date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207642
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1616
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1611 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          I was talking about the theory, not value. Sorry if that didn’t come across.\n
          \n
          Now that I think about it: isn’t value culturally determined in many things? Why are apple products more expensive than other computers with the same specs? Why is a ticket to a Billie Eilish concert more valuable than one to my neighbor’s indie rock band?
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701974894 {#1705
          date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1598 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1629 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1626 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1618 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1597 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1731 …}
        -id: 207637
        -bodyTs: "'across':15 'appl':32 'band':62 'billi':49 'come':14 'comput':38 'concert':51 'cultur':25 'determin':26 'didn':12 'eilish':50 'expens':35 'indi':60 'isn':22 'mani':28 'neighbor':58 'one':55 'product':33 'rock':61 'sorri':9 'spec':42 'talk':3 'theori':6 'thing':29 'think':19 'ticket':46 'valu':8,24 'valuabl':53"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485163"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701974894 {#1711
          date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207637
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1718
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1720 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          Sorry, I interpreted it as aggressive. Figuring out tone in text form is hard and all that. Sorry that I wrongly accused you.\n
          \n
          Things I didn’t get:\n
          \n
          > A reminder that the labour theory of value is not a marxist concept.\n
          \n
          Marx hasn’t been explicity brought up yet (at least not in my comment). Only implicitly in the original post. Again: thought you were attacking me and was like “umm… So what?”\n
          \n
          > When people wave their hands around and say “labor theory of value isn’t objectively true!!”, they’re shadowboxing a ghost.\n
          \n
          I thought you meant me, since that was what I was basically saying. 😅\n
          \n
          > Value != price\n
          \n
          Now, that one wasn’t even implicitly mentioned.\n
          \n
          I hope you don’t hold my misunderstanding against me.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 3
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701975943 {#1715
          date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1716 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1739 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1740 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2465 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2463 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2411 …}
        -id: 207711
        -bodyTs: "'accus':22 'aggress':6 'around':79 'attack':66 'basic':106 'brought':47 'comment':55 'concept':41 'didn':26 'even':115 'explic':46 'figur':7 'form':12 'get':28 'ghost':94 'hand':78 'hard':14 'hasn':43 'hold':123 'hope':119 'implicit':57,116 'interpret':3 'isn':86 'labor':82 'labour':33 'least':51 'like':70 'marx':42 'marxist':40 'meant':98 'mention':117 'misunderstand':125 'object':88 'one':112 'origin':60 'peopl':75 'post':61 'price':109 're':91 'remind':30 'say':81,107 'shadowbox':92 'sinc':100 'sorri':1,18 'text':11 'theori':34,83 'thing':24 'thought':63,96 'tone':9 'true':89 'umm':71 'valu':36,85,108 'wasn':113 'wave':76 'wrong':21 'yet':49"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485494"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975943 {#1714
          date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207711
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2458
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2461 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Where?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701976885 {#2422
          date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2456 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2453 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2457 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2455 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2468 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2469 …}
        -id: 207782
        -bodyTs: ""
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485802"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701976885 {#2462
          date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207782
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2370 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Don’t the two correlate?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701977809 {#2471
          date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2377 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2359 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2364 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2380 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2382 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2384 …}
        -id: 207842
        -bodyTs: "'correl':5 'two':4"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486088"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977809 {#2371
          date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207842
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          > Well now i’m confused. If ‘labor theory of value isn’t objectively true’ isn’t making an argument about the price of a commodity not being equal to the labor it embodies, I am not sure what you’re trying to say by it.\n
          \n
          A theory o value doesn’t necessarily say anything about price. As you said: “value != price”.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701977944 {#2379
          date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1909 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1926 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1874 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1908 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1883 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2389 …}
        -id: 207854
        -bodyTs: "'anyth':54 'argument':19 'commod':25 'confus':5 'doesn':50 'embodi':33 'equal':28 'isn':11,15 'labor':7,31 'm':4 'make':17 'necessarili':52 'o':48 'object':13 'price':22,56,61 're':40 'said':59 'say':43,53 'sure':37 'theori':8,47 'tri':41 'true':14 'valu':10,49,60 'well':1"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486136"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373971 {#2381
          date: 2023-12-24 00:26:11.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977944 {#2383
          date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207854
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2030 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          As far as I understand: Price tries to measure value. Therefore: A price needs a value, but value doesn’t need price. They correlate but are not the same.\n
          \n
          Were am I making the mistake? Genuine question.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980069 {#1403
          date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2032 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2024 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2018 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2011 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2021 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2029 …}
        -id: 207987
        -bodyTs: "'correl':24 'doesn':19 'far':2 'genuin':36 'make':33 'measur':9 'mistak':35 'need':14,21 'price':6,13,22 'question':37 'therefor':11 'tri':7 'understand':5 'valu':10,16,18"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487031"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980069 {#2019
          date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207987
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2393 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          There’s not even academical consensus what value actually *is*, AFAIK. Do preasts add value to anything with their labour? If not: Do social counsellors? What if a priest acts as a counsellor? Ask different economists with their theories of value and you’ll get several answers.\n
          \n
          Economic theories aren’t as rigid as theories from the natural sciences or mathematics. They are dependent on the culture in which they are perceived. A non-capitalist society would have different theories or value (or none at all) than we do.\n
          \n
          [This guy can explain it properly](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw), I’m not an economist and kinda regret making that comment.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 6
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701979923 {#2387
          date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@JayDee@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1384 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1383 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1405 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1382 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1404 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1361 …}
        -id: 207981
        -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':99 'academ':5 'act':30 'actual':9 'add':14 'afaik':11 'answer':47 'anyth':17 'aren':50 'ask':34 'capitalist':76 'comment':110 'consensus':6 'counsellor':25,33 'cultur':67 'depend':64 'differ':35,80 'econom':48 'economist':36,104 'even':4 'explain':94 'get':45 'guy':92 'kinda':106 'labour':20 'll':44 'm':101 'make':108 'mathemat':61 'natur':58 'non':75 'non-capitalist':74 'none':85 'perceiv':72 'preast':13 'priest':29 'proper':96 'regret':107 'rigid':53 'scienc':59 'sever':46 'social':24 'societi':77 'theori':39,49,55,81 'valu':8,15,41,83 'would':78 'www.youtube.com':98 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':97"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486914"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373897 {#2392
          date: 2023-12-24 00:24:57.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701979923 {#2394
          date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207981
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2062 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "I wouldn’t have been able to write it this consise, but that’s kind of one thing I wanted to point towards in my original comment."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980622 {#2082
          date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2081 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2098 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2080 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2089 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2095 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2091 …}
        -id: 208044
        -bodyTs: "'abl':6 'comment':27 'consis':11 'kind':15 'one':17 'origin':26 'point':22 'thing':18 'toward':23 'want':20 'wouldn':2 'write':8"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487230"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980622 {#2085
          date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208044
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2035 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          It’s an economic theory and therefore more to be understood as a model on how economics work.\n
          \n
          The natural sciences have a hard core. The theory of gravity depends on how matter interacts in an objective, physical framework. Economic theories basically describe human interaction which are based on psychology and sociology. Therefore they depend on the societal context they are made in.\n
          \n
          If you understand them as models that are tools on how to understand the world, they become more useful in political analysis (I know we are in a meme community here, but everything is politics and so on and so on…).\n
          \n
          I do subscribe to many conclusions the labour theory of value and especially Marx came to. But I want y’all to *remember* that the theory is a mere tool for understanding and not a sacred, holy theory.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980460 {#2020
          date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2031 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2037 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2075 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2079 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2078 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2097 …}
        -id: 208027
        -bodyTs: "'analysi':85 'base':48 'basic':42 'becom':80 'came':119 'communiti':93 'conclus':110 'context':59 'core':25 'depend':30,55 'describ':43 'econom':4,17,40 'especi':117 'everyth':96 'framework':39 'graviti':29 'hard':24 'holi':141 'human':44 'interact':34,45 'know':87 'labour':112 'made':62 'mani':109 'marx':118 'matter':33 'meme':92 'mere':133 'model':14,69 'natur':20 'object':37 'physic':38 'polit':84,98 'psycholog':50 'rememb':127 'sacr':140 'scienc':21 'societ':58 'sociolog':52 'subscrib':107 'theori':5,27,41,113,130,142 'therefor':7,53 'tool':72,134 'understand':66,76,136 'understood':11 'use':82 'valu':115 'want':123 'work':18 'world':78 'y':124"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487165"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980460 {#2013
          date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208027
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2094
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2241 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          > Why the neutral language all of a sudden?\n
          \n
          I was trying to be understood a bit better.\n
          \n
          > Are you trying to say 'all economic theories and models are not objectively true"?\n
          \n
          Not explicitally, but yeah: models aren’t used for “objective truth”. They’re used to *model* (i.e. simplify) reality to make observations and guesses for the future.\n
          \n
          > Why would that be worth saying in response to the OP?\n
          \n
          I feel like a lot of leftists think that understanding economics starts and ends with “capitalists exploit the labouring class”, while not actually engaging with the subject matter. I guess most can’t even explain LTV properly before getting mad at capitalists.\n
          \n
          As I’ve written before: I agree with most conclusions of marxist analysis that I know and I probably don’t even know half of them. But I think that political analysis should use LTV as a tool to understand the world and not the end of socio-economical disgussion (because that would ignore important parts of today’s economy).\n
          \n
          > It really just seems like you disagree with the ‘your stolen labor value’ claim in the OP, and are attributing it to the ‘labor theory of value’\n
          \n
          I don’t. I wanted to remind people as to make political analysis not too easy by taking the mental shortcut of reducing current capitalism on the problems pointed out by Marx rendition of LTV.\n
          \n
          > (as opposed to dismissing it because you disagree with some portion of the theory you’ve neglected to mention)\n
          \n
          I don’t disagree. I also don’t disagree with the atomic model of Niels Bohr when it comes to calculating electron potential. When it comes to observing e.g. electron spin, that particular model will probably fall flat. That doesn’t mean I “disagree” with the model, though.\n
          \n
          > My hunch is that you don’t feel confident enough in your understanding to make any kind of firm claim and are just dancing around making vague gestures toward ‘labor’ and ‘value’ definitions as a way of avoiding it.\n
          \n
          I’m not too confident in my economic knowledge, true. But I *am* quite confident in how models should be used in soft sciences.\n
          \n
          Addendum: I’d like to kindly ask you to give me a little bit of benefit of the doubt. Otherwise, I’ll just disengage due to that accusatory tone I’m getting from you being a bit exhausting.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701985632 {#2090
          date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2140 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2133 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2131 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2138 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2345 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2330 …}
        -id: 208351
        -bodyTs: "'accusatori':392 'actual':92 'addendum':365 'agre':118 'also':259 'analysi':124,143,212 'aren':37 'around':326 'ask':371 'atom':265 'attribut':192 'avoid':339 'benefit':380 'better':17 'bit':16,378,401 'bohr':269 'calcul':274 'capit':224 'capitalist':85,111 'claim':186,321 'class':89 'come':272,279 'conclus':121 'confid':310,345,355 'current':223 'd':367 'danc':325 'definit':334 'disagre':179,242,257,262,297 'disengag':388 'disguss':162 'dismiss':238 'doesn':293 'doubt':383 'due':389 'e.g':282 'easi':215 'econom':24,80,161,348 'economi':172 'electron':275,283 'end':83,157 'engag':93 'enough':311 'even':103,133 'exhaust':402 'explain':104 'explicit':33 'exploit':86 'fall':290 'feel':71,309 'firm':320 'flat':291 'futur':58 'gestur':329 'get':108,396 'give':374 'guess':55,99 'half':135 'hunch':303 'i.e':48 'ignor':166 'import':167 'kind':318,370 'know':127,134 'knowledg':349 'labor':184,196,331 'labour':88 'languag':4 'leftist':76 'like':72,177,368 'littl':377 'll':386 'lot':74 'ltv':105,146,234 'm':342,395 'mad':109 'make':52,210,316,327 'marx':231 'marxist':123 'matter':97 'mean':295 'mental':219 'mention':253 'model':27,36,47,266,287,300,358 'neglect':251 'neutral':3 'niel':268 'object':30,41 'observ':53,281 'op':69,189 'oppos':236 'otherwis':384 'part':168 'particular':286 'peopl':207 'point':228 'polit':142,211 'portion':245 'potenti':276 'probabl':130,289 'problem':227 'proper':106 'quit':354 're':44 'realiti':50 'realli':174 'reduc':222 'remind':206 'rendit':232 'respons':66 'say':22,64 'scienc':364 'seem':176 'shortcut':220 'simplifi':49 'socio':160 'socio-econom':159 'soft':363 'spin':284 'start':81 'stolen':183 'subject':96 'sudden':8 'take':217 'theori':25,197,248 'think':77,140 'though':301 'today':170 'tone':393 'tool':149 'toward':330 'tri':11,20 'true':31,350 'truth':42 'understand':79,151,314 'understood':14 'use':39,45,145,361 'vagu':328 'valu':185,199,333 've':114,250 'want':204 'way':337 'world':153 'worth':63 'would':60,165 'written':115 'yeah':35"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5489133"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703384328 {#2093
          date: 2023-12-24 03:18:48.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701985632 {#2092
          date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208351
      }
    ]
    -id: 20852
    -titleTs: "'enemi':3 'know':1"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1702038246
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemmy.ml/post/8990722"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701951846 {#2506
      date: 2023-12-07 13:24:06.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1604 …}
  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
  +body: """
    You’re right. It’s *one* theory. There is however ongoing debate on which theory is “correct”.\n
    \n
    This vid explains it quite well and with Simpsons clips so the hour of video is bearable:\n
    \n
    [www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw)
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 2
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1701971365 {#1621
    date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
    "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
    "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1596 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1702 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1683 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1680 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1686 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1692 …}
  -id: 207387
  -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':37 'bearabl':34 'clip':27 'correct':17 'debat':12 'explain':20 'hour':30 'howev':10 'one':6 'ongo':11 'quit':22 're':2 'right':3 'simpson':26 'theori':7,15 'vid':19 'video':32 'well':23 'www.youtube.com':36 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':35"
  +ranking: 0
  +commentCount: 0
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5483715"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701971365 {#1620
    date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 207387
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
8 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2003 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2559 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2581 …}
    +slug: "Know-your-enemy"
    +title: "Know your enemy"
    +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/4e8abd58-e357-4836-88ce-d57b36597f6b.jpeg"
    +body: null
    +type: "image"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: true
    +commentCount: 76
    +favouriteCount: 676
    +score: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +sticky: false
    +lastActive: DateTime @1702111873 {#2346
      date: 2023-12-09 09:51:13.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2580 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2578 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2575 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2609 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2605 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2622 …}
    +children: [
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613}
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: null
        +root: null
        +body: """
          Reminder that while the labour theory of value can be practical to understand certain aspects of society, it is still culturally biased and not “objectively” true.\n
          \n
          What creates value can only be answered in a cultural framework.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 12
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1703499828 {#1580
          date: 2023-12-25 11:23:48.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1561 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1564 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1563 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1565 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1558 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1557 …}
        -id: 206964
        -bodyTs: "'answer':33 'aspect':15 'bias':22 'certain':14 'creat':28 'cultur':21,36 'framework':37 'labour':5 'object':25 'practic':11 'remind':1 'societi':17 'still':20 'theori':6 'true':26 'understand':13 'valu':8,29"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5480766"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701964861 {#1550
          date: 2023-12-07 17:01:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 206964
      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1721
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1726 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Umm… Thanks for that unnecessarily aggressive seeming and a bit incompehensible addendum, I guess?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 4
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701975001 {#1723
          date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1728 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1730 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1734 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1727 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1733 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1724 …}
        -id: 207642
        -bodyTs: "'addendum':12 'aggress':6 'bit':10 'guess':14 'incompehens':11 'seem':7 'thank':2 'umm':1 'unnecessarili':5"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485206"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975001 {#1722
          date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207642
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1616
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1611 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          I was talking about the theory, not value. Sorry if that didn’t come across.\n
          \n
          Now that I think about it: isn’t value culturally determined in many things? Why are apple products more expensive than other computers with the same specs? Why is a ticket to a Billie Eilish concert more valuable than one to my neighbor’s indie rock band?
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701974894 {#1705
          date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1598 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1629 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1626 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1618 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1597 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1731 …}
        -id: 207637
        -bodyTs: "'across':15 'appl':32 'band':62 'billi':49 'come':14 'comput':38 'concert':51 'cultur':25 'determin':26 'didn':12 'eilish':50 'expens':35 'indi':60 'isn':22 'mani':28 'neighbor':58 'one':55 'product':33 'rock':61 'sorri':9 'spec':42 'talk':3 'theori':6 'thing':29 'think':19 'ticket':46 'valu':8,24 'valuabl':53"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485163"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701974894 {#1711
          date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207637
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1718
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1720 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          Sorry, I interpreted it as aggressive. Figuring out tone in text form is hard and all that. Sorry that I wrongly accused you.\n
          \n
          Things I didn’t get:\n
          \n
          > A reminder that the labour theory of value is not a marxist concept.\n
          \n
          Marx hasn’t been explicity brought up yet (at least not in my comment). Only implicitly in the original post. Again: thought you were attacking me and was like “umm… So what?”\n
          \n
          > When people wave their hands around and say “labor theory of value isn’t objectively true!!”, they’re shadowboxing a ghost.\n
          \n
          I thought you meant me, since that was what I was basically saying. 😅\n
          \n
          > Value != price\n
          \n
          Now, that one wasn’t even implicitly mentioned.\n
          \n
          I hope you don’t hold my misunderstanding against me.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 3
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701975943 {#1715
          date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1716 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1739 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1740 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2465 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2463 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2411 …}
        -id: 207711
        -bodyTs: "'accus':22 'aggress':6 'around':79 'attack':66 'basic':106 'brought':47 'comment':55 'concept':41 'didn':26 'even':115 'explic':46 'figur':7 'form':12 'get':28 'ghost':94 'hand':78 'hard':14 'hasn':43 'hold':123 'hope':119 'implicit':57,116 'interpret':3 'isn':86 'labor':82 'labour':33 'least':51 'like':70 'marx':42 'marxist':40 'meant':98 'mention':117 'misunderstand':125 'object':88 'one':112 'origin':60 'peopl':75 'post':61 'price':109 're':91 'remind':30 'say':81,107 'shadowbox':92 'sinc':100 'sorri':1,18 'text':11 'theori':34,83 'thing':24 'thought':63,96 'tone':9 'true':89 'umm':71 'valu':36,85,108 'wasn':113 'wave':76 'wrong':21 'yet':49"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485494"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975943 {#1714
          date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207711
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2458
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2461 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Where?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701976885 {#2422
          date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2456 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2453 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2457 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2455 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2468 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2469 …}
        -id: 207782
        -bodyTs: ""
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485802"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701976885 {#2462
          date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207782
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2370 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Don’t the two correlate?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701977809 {#2471
          date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2377 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2359 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2364 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2380 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2382 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2384 …}
        -id: 207842
        -bodyTs: "'correl':5 'two':4"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486088"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977809 {#2371
          date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207842
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          > Well now i’m confused. If ‘labor theory of value isn’t objectively true’ isn’t making an argument about the price of a commodity not being equal to the labor it embodies, I am not sure what you’re trying to say by it.\n
          \n
          A theory o value doesn’t necessarily say anything about price. As you said: “value != price”.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701977944 {#2379
          date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1909 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1926 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1874 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1908 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1883 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2389 …}
        -id: 207854
        -bodyTs: "'anyth':54 'argument':19 'commod':25 'confus':5 'doesn':50 'embodi':33 'equal':28 'isn':11,15 'labor':7,31 'm':4 'make':17 'necessarili':52 'o':48 'object':13 'price':22,56,61 're':40 'said':59 'say':43,53 'sure':37 'theori':8,47 'tri':41 'true':14 'valu':10,49,60 'well':1"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486136"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373971 {#2381
          date: 2023-12-24 00:26:11.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977944 {#2383
          date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207854
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2030 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          As far as I understand: Price tries to measure value. Therefore: A price needs a value, but value doesn’t need price. They correlate but are not the same.\n
          \n
          Were am I making the mistake? Genuine question.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980069 {#1403
          date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2032 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2024 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2018 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2011 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2021 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2029 …}
        -id: 207987
        -bodyTs: "'correl':24 'doesn':19 'far':2 'genuin':36 'make':33 'measur':9 'mistak':35 'need':14,21 'price':6,13,22 'question':37 'therefor':11 'tri':7 'understand':5 'valu':10,16,18"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487031"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980069 {#2019
          date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207987
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2393 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          There’s not even academical consensus what value actually *is*, AFAIK. Do preasts add value to anything with their labour? If not: Do social counsellors? What if a priest acts as a counsellor? Ask different economists with their theories of value and you’ll get several answers.\n
          \n
          Economic theories aren’t as rigid as theories from the natural sciences or mathematics. They are dependent on the culture in which they are perceived. A non-capitalist society would have different theories or value (or none at all) than we do.\n
          \n
          [This guy can explain it properly](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw), I’m not an economist and kinda regret making that comment.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 6
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701979923 {#2387
          date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@JayDee@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1384 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1383 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1405 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1382 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1404 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1361 …}
        -id: 207981
        -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':99 'academ':5 'act':30 'actual':9 'add':14 'afaik':11 'answer':47 'anyth':17 'aren':50 'ask':34 'capitalist':76 'comment':110 'consensus':6 'counsellor':25,33 'cultur':67 'depend':64 'differ':35,80 'econom':48 'economist':36,104 'even':4 'explain':94 'get':45 'guy':92 'kinda':106 'labour':20 'll':44 'm':101 'make':108 'mathemat':61 'natur':58 'non':75 'non-capitalist':74 'none':85 'perceiv':72 'preast':13 'priest':29 'proper':96 'regret':107 'rigid':53 'scienc':59 'sever':46 'social':24 'societi':77 'theori':39,49,55,81 'valu':8,15,41,83 'would':78 'www.youtube.com':98 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':97"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486914"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373897 {#2392
          date: 2023-12-24 00:24:57.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701979923 {#2394
          date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207981
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2062 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "I wouldn’t have been able to write it this consise, but that’s kind of one thing I wanted to point towards in my original comment."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980622 {#2082
          date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2081 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2098 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2080 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2089 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2095 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2091 …}
        -id: 208044
        -bodyTs: "'abl':6 'comment':27 'consis':11 'kind':15 'one':17 'origin':26 'point':22 'thing':18 'toward':23 'want':20 'wouldn':2 'write':8"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487230"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980622 {#2085
          date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208044
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2035 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          It’s an economic theory and therefore more to be understood as a model on how economics work.\n
          \n
          The natural sciences have a hard core. The theory of gravity depends on how matter interacts in an objective, physical framework. Economic theories basically describe human interaction which are based on psychology and sociology. Therefore they depend on the societal context they are made in.\n
          \n
          If you understand them as models that are tools on how to understand the world, they become more useful in political analysis (I know we are in a meme community here, but everything is politics and so on and so on…).\n
          \n
          I do subscribe to many conclusions the labour theory of value and especially Marx came to. But I want y’all to *remember* that the theory is a mere tool for understanding and not a sacred, holy theory.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980460 {#2020
          date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2031 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2037 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2075 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2079 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2078 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2097 …}
        -id: 208027
        -bodyTs: "'analysi':85 'base':48 'basic':42 'becom':80 'came':119 'communiti':93 'conclus':110 'context':59 'core':25 'depend':30,55 'describ':43 'econom':4,17,40 'especi':117 'everyth':96 'framework':39 'graviti':29 'hard':24 'holi':141 'human':44 'interact':34,45 'know':87 'labour':112 'made':62 'mani':109 'marx':118 'matter':33 'meme':92 'mere':133 'model':14,69 'natur':20 'object':37 'physic':38 'polit':84,98 'psycholog':50 'rememb':127 'sacr':140 'scienc':21 'societ':58 'sociolog':52 'subscrib':107 'theori':5,27,41,113,130,142 'therefor':7,53 'tool':72,134 'understand':66,76,136 'understood':11 'use':82 'valu':115 'want':123 'work':18 'world':78 'y':124"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487165"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980460 {#2013
          date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208027
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2094
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2241 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          > Why the neutral language all of a sudden?\n
          \n
          I was trying to be understood a bit better.\n
          \n
          > Are you trying to say 'all economic theories and models are not objectively true"?\n
          \n
          Not explicitally, but yeah: models aren’t used for “objective truth”. They’re used to *model* (i.e. simplify) reality to make observations and guesses for the future.\n
          \n
          > Why would that be worth saying in response to the OP?\n
          \n
          I feel like a lot of leftists think that understanding economics starts and ends with “capitalists exploit the labouring class”, while not actually engaging with the subject matter. I guess most can’t even explain LTV properly before getting mad at capitalists.\n
          \n
          As I’ve written before: I agree with most conclusions of marxist analysis that I know and I probably don’t even know half of them. But I think that political analysis should use LTV as a tool to understand the world and not the end of socio-economical disgussion (because that would ignore important parts of today’s economy).\n
          \n
          > It really just seems like you disagree with the ‘your stolen labor value’ claim in the OP, and are attributing it to the ‘labor theory of value’\n
          \n
          I don’t. I wanted to remind people as to make political analysis not too easy by taking the mental shortcut of reducing current capitalism on the problems pointed out by Marx rendition of LTV.\n
          \n
          > (as opposed to dismissing it because you disagree with some portion of the theory you’ve neglected to mention)\n
          \n
          I don’t disagree. I also don’t disagree with the atomic model of Niels Bohr when it comes to calculating electron potential. When it comes to observing e.g. electron spin, that particular model will probably fall flat. That doesn’t mean I “disagree” with the model, though.\n
          \n
          > My hunch is that you don’t feel confident enough in your understanding to make any kind of firm claim and are just dancing around making vague gestures toward ‘labor’ and ‘value’ definitions as a way of avoiding it.\n
          \n
          I’m not too confident in my economic knowledge, true. But I *am* quite confident in how models should be used in soft sciences.\n
          \n
          Addendum: I’d like to kindly ask you to give me a little bit of benefit of the doubt. Otherwise, I’ll just disengage due to that accusatory tone I’m getting from you being a bit exhausting.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701985632 {#2090
          date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2140 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2133 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2131 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2138 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2345 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2330 …}
        -id: 208351
        -bodyTs: "'accusatori':392 'actual':92 'addendum':365 'agre':118 'also':259 'analysi':124,143,212 'aren':37 'around':326 'ask':371 'atom':265 'attribut':192 'avoid':339 'benefit':380 'better':17 'bit':16,378,401 'bohr':269 'calcul':274 'capit':224 'capitalist':85,111 'claim':186,321 'class':89 'come':272,279 'conclus':121 'confid':310,345,355 'current':223 'd':367 'danc':325 'definit':334 'disagre':179,242,257,262,297 'disengag':388 'disguss':162 'dismiss':238 'doesn':293 'doubt':383 'due':389 'e.g':282 'easi':215 'econom':24,80,161,348 'economi':172 'electron':275,283 'end':83,157 'engag':93 'enough':311 'even':103,133 'exhaust':402 'explain':104 'explicit':33 'exploit':86 'fall':290 'feel':71,309 'firm':320 'flat':291 'futur':58 'gestur':329 'get':108,396 'give':374 'guess':55,99 'half':135 'hunch':303 'i.e':48 'ignor':166 'import':167 'kind':318,370 'know':127,134 'knowledg':349 'labor':184,196,331 'labour':88 'languag':4 'leftist':76 'like':72,177,368 'littl':377 'll':386 'lot':74 'ltv':105,146,234 'm':342,395 'mad':109 'make':52,210,316,327 'marx':231 'marxist':123 'matter':97 'mean':295 'mental':219 'mention':253 'model':27,36,47,266,287,300,358 'neglect':251 'neutral':3 'niel':268 'object':30,41 'observ':53,281 'op':69,189 'oppos':236 'otherwis':384 'part':168 'particular':286 'peopl':207 'point':228 'polit':142,211 'portion':245 'potenti':276 'probabl':130,289 'problem':227 'proper':106 'quit':354 're':44 'realiti':50 'realli':174 'reduc':222 'remind':206 'rendit':232 'respons':66 'say':22,64 'scienc':364 'seem':176 'shortcut':220 'simplifi':49 'socio':160 'socio-econom':159 'soft':363 'spin':284 'start':81 'stolen':183 'subject':96 'sudden':8 'take':217 'theori':25,197,248 'think':77,140 'though':301 'today':170 'tone':393 'tool':149 'toward':330 'tri':11,20 'true':31,350 'truth':42 'understand':79,151,314 'understood':14 'use':39,45,145,361 'vagu':328 'valu':185,199,333 've':114,250 'want':204 'way':337 'world':153 'worth':63 'would':60,165 'written':115 'yeah':35"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5489133"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703384328 {#2093
          date: 2023-12-24 03:18:48.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701985632 {#2092
          date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208351
      }
    ]
    -id: 20852
    -titleTs: "'enemi':3 'know':1"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1702038246
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemmy.ml/post/8990722"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701951846 {#2506
      date: 2023-12-07 13:24:06.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1604 …}
  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
  +body: """
    You’re right. It’s *one* theory. There is however ongoing debate on which theory is “correct”.\n
    \n
    This vid explains it quite well and with Simpsons clips so the hour of video is bearable:\n
    \n
    [www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw)
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 2
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1701971365 {#1621
    date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
    "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
    "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1596 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1702 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1683 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1680 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1686 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1692 …}
  -id: 207387
  -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':37 'bearabl':34 'clip':27 'correct':17 'debat':12 'explain':20 'hour':30 'howev':10 'one':6 'ongo':11 'quit':22 're':2 'right':3 'simpson':26 'theori':7,15 'vid':19 'video':32 'well':23 'www.youtube.com':36 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':35"
  +ranking: 0
  +commentCount: 0
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5483715"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701971365 {#1620
    date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 207387
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
9 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
10 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2003 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2559 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2581 …}
    +slug: "Know-your-enemy"
    +title: "Know your enemy"
    +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/4e8abd58-e357-4836-88ce-d57b36597f6b.jpeg"
    +body: null
    +type: "image"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: true
    +commentCount: 76
    +favouriteCount: 676
    +score: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +sticky: false
    +lastActive: DateTime @1702111873 {#2346
      date: 2023-12-09 09:51:13.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2580 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2578 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2575 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2609 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2605 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2622 …}
    +children: [
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1604 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          You’re right. It’s *one* theory. There is however ongoing debate on which theory is “correct”.\n
          \n
          This vid explains it quite well and with Simpsons clips so the hour of video is bearable:\n
          \n
          [www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw)
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701971365 {#1621
          date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1596 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1702 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1683 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1680 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1686 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1692 …}
        -id: 207387
        -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':37 'bearabl':34 'clip':27 'correct':17 'debat':12 'explain':20 'hour':30 'howev':10 'one':6 'ongo':11 'quit':22 're':2 'right':3 'simpson':26 'theori':7,15 'vid':19 'video':32 'well':23 'www.youtube.com':36 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':35"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5483715"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701971365 {#1620
          date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207387
      }
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1721
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1726 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Umm… Thanks for that unnecessarily aggressive seeming and a bit incompehensible addendum, I guess?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 4
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701975001 {#1723
          date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1728 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1730 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1734 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1727 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1733 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1724 …}
        -id: 207642
        -bodyTs: "'addendum':12 'aggress':6 'bit':10 'guess':14 'incompehens':11 'seem':7 'thank':2 'umm':1 'unnecessarili':5"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485206"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975001 {#1722
          date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207642
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1616
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1611 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          I was talking about the theory, not value. Sorry if that didn’t come across.\n
          \n
          Now that I think about it: isn’t value culturally determined in many things? Why are apple products more expensive than other computers with the same specs? Why is a ticket to a Billie Eilish concert more valuable than one to my neighbor’s indie rock band?
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701974894 {#1705
          date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1598 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1629 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1626 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1618 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1597 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1731 …}
        -id: 207637
        -bodyTs: "'across':15 'appl':32 'band':62 'billi':49 'come':14 'comput':38 'concert':51 'cultur':25 'determin':26 'didn':12 'eilish':50 'expens':35 'indi':60 'isn':22 'mani':28 'neighbor':58 'one':55 'product':33 'rock':61 'sorri':9 'spec':42 'talk':3 'theori':6 'thing':29 'think':19 'ticket':46 'valu':8,24 'valuabl':53"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485163"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701974894 {#1711
          date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207637
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1718
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1720 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          Sorry, I interpreted it as aggressive. Figuring out tone in text form is hard and all that. Sorry that I wrongly accused you.\n
          \n
          Things I didn’t get:\n
          \n
          > A reminder that the labour theory of value is not a marxist concept.\n
          \n
          Marx hasn’t been explicity brought up yet (at least not in my comment). Only implicitly in the original post. Again: thought you were attacking me and was like “umm… So what?”\n
          \n
          > When people wave their hands around and say “labor theory of value isn’t objectively true!!”, they’re shadowboxing a ghost.\n
          \n
          I thought you meant me, since that was what I was basically saying. 😅\n
          \n
          > Value != price\n
          \n
          Now, that one wasn’t even implicitly mentioned.\n
          \n
          I hope you don’t hold my misunderstanding against me.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 3
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701975943 {#1715
          date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1716 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1739 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1740 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2465 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2463 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2411 …}
        -id: 207711
        -bodyTs: "'accus':22 'aggress':6 'around':79 'attack':66 'basic':106 'brought':47 'comment':55 'concept':41 'didn':26 'even':115 'explic':46 'figur':7 'form':12 'get':28 'ghost':94 'hand':78 'hard':14 'hasn':43 'hold':123 'hope':119 'implicit':57,116 'interpret':3 'isn':86 'labor':82 'labour':33 'least':51 'like':70 'marx':42 'marxist':40 'meant':98 'mention':117 'misunderstand':125 'object':88 'one':112 'origin':60 'peopl':75 'post':61 'price':109 're':91 'remind':30 'say':81,107 'shadowbox':92 'sinc':100 'sorri':1,18 'text':11 'theori':34,83 'thing':24 'thought':63,96 'tone':9 'true':89 'umm':71 'valu':36,85,108 'wasn':113 'wave':76 'wrong':21 'yet':49"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485494"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975943 {#1714
          date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207711
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2458
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2461 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Where?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701976885 {#2422
          date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2456 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2453 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2457 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2455 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2468 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2469 …}
        -id: 207782
        -bodyTs: ""
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485802"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701976885 {#2462
          date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207782
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2370 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Don’t the two correlate?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701977809 {#2471
          date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2377 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2359 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2364 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2380 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2382 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2384 …}
        -id: 207842
        -bodyTs: "'correl':5 'two':4"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486088"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977809 {#2371
          date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207842
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          > Well now i’m confused. If ‘labor theory of value isn’t objectively true’ isn’t making an argument about the price of a commodity not being equal to the labor it embodies, I am not sure what you’re trying to say by it.\n
          \n
          A theory o value doesn’t necessarily say anything about price. As you said: “value != price”.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701977944 {#2379
          date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1909 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1926 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1874 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1908 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1883 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2389 …}
        -id: 207854
        -bodyTs: "'anyth':54 'argument':19 'commod':25 'confus':5 'doesn':50 'embodi':33 'equal':28 'isn':11,15 'labor':7,31 'm':4 'make':17 'necessarili':52 'o':48 'object':13 'price':22,56,61 're':40 'said':59 'say':43,53 'sure':37 'theori':8,47 'tri':41 'true':14 'valu':10,49,60 'well':1"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486136"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373971 {#2381
          date: 2023-12-24 00:26:11.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977944 {#2383
          date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207854
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2030 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          As far as I understand: Price tries to measure value. Therefore: A price needs a value, but value doesn’t need price. They correlate but are not the same.\n
          \n
          Were am I making the mistake? Genuine question.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980069 {#1403
          date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2032 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2024 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2018 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2011 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2021 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2029 …}
        -id: 207987
        -bodyTs: "'correl':24 'doesn':19 'far':2 'genuin':36 'make':33 'measur':9 'mistak':35 'need':14,21 'price':6,13,22 'question':37 'therefor':11 'tri':7 'understand':5 'valu':10,16,18"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487031"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980069 {#2019
          date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207987
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2393 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          There’s not even academical consensus what value actually *is*, AFAIK. Do preasts add value to anything with their labour? If not: Do social counsellors? What if a priest acts as a counsellor? Ask different economists with their theories of value and you’ll get several answers.\n
          \n
          Economic theories aren’t as rigid as theories from the natural sciences or mathematics. They are dependent on the culture in which they are perceived. A non-capitalist society would have different theories or value (or none at all) than we do.\n
          \n
          [This guy can explain it properly](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw), I’m not an economist and kinda regret making that comment.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 6
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701979923 {#2387
          date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@JayDee@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1384 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1383 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1405 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1382 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1404 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1361 …}
        -id: 207981
        -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':99 'academ':5 'act':30 'actual':9 'add':14 'afaik':11 'answer':47 'anyth':17 'aren':50 'ask':34 'capitalist':76 'comment':110 'consensus':6 'counsellor':25,33 'cultur':67 'depend':64 'differ':35,80 'econom':48 'economist':36,104 'even':4 'explain':94 'get':45 'guy':92 'kinda':106 'labour':20 'll':44 'm':101 'make':108 'mathemat':61 'natur':58 'non':75 'non-capitalist':74 'none':85 'perceiv':72 'preast':13 'priest':29 'proper':96 'regret':107 'rigid':53 'scienc':59 'sever':46 'social':24 'societi':77 'theori':39,49,55,81 'valu':8,15,41,83 'would':78 'www.youtube.com':98 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':97"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486914"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373897 {#2392
          date: 2023-12-24 00:24:57.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701979923 {#2394
          date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207981
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2062 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "I wouldn’t have been able to write it this consise, but that’s kind of one thing I wanted to point towards in my original comment."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980622 {#2082
          date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2081 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2098 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2080 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2089 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2095 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2091 …}
        -id: 208044
        -bodyTs: "'abl':6 'comment':27 'consis':11 'kind':15 'one':17 'origin':26 'point':22 'thing':18 'toward':23 'want':20 'wouldn':2 'write':8"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487230"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980622 {#2085
          date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208044
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2035 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          It’s an economic theory and therefore more to be understood as a model on how economics work.\n
          \n
          The natural sciences have a hard core. The theory of gravity depends on how matter interacts in an objective, physical framework. Economic theories basically describe human interaction which are based on psychology and sociology. Therefore they depend on the societal context they are made in.\n
          \n
          If you understand them as models that are tools on how to understand the world, they become more useful in political analysis (I know we are in a meme community here, but everything is politics and so on and so on…).\n
          \n
          I do subscribe to many conclusions the labour theory of value and especially Marx came to. But I want y’all to *remember* that the theory is a mere tool for understanding and not a sacred, holy theory.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980460 {#2020
          date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2031 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2037 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2075 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2079 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2078 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2097 …}
        -id: 208027
        -bodyTs: "'analysi':85 'base':48 'basic':42 'becom':80 'came':119 'communiti':93 'conclus':110 'context':59 'core':25 'depend':30,55 'describ':43 'econom':4,17,40 'especi':117 'everyth':96 'framework':39 'graviti':29 'hard':24 'holi':141 'human':44 'interact':34,45 'know':87 'labour':112 'made':62 'mani':109 'marx':118 'matter':33 'meme':92 'mere':133 'model':14,69 'natur':20 'object':37 'physic':38 'polit':84,98 'psycholog':50 'rememb':127 'sacr':140 'scienc':21 'societ':58 'sociolog':52 'subscrib':107 'theori':5,27,41,113,130,142 'therefor':7,53 'tool':72,134 'understand':66,76,136 'understood':11 'use':82 'valu':115 'want':123 'work':18 'world':78 'y':124"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487165"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980460 {#2013
          date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208027
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2094
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2241 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          > Why the neutral language all of a sudden?\n
          \n
          I was trying to be understood a bit better.\n
          \n
          > Are you trying to say 'all economic theories and models are not objectively true"?\n
          \n
          Not explicitally, but yeah: models aren’t used for “objective truth”. They’re used to *model* (i.e. simplify) reality to make observations and guesses for the future.\n
          \n
          > Why would that be worth saying in response to the OP?\n
          \n
          I feel like a lot of leftists think that understanding economics starts and ends with “capitalists exploit the labouring class”, while not actually engaging with the subject matter. I guess most can’t even explain LTV properly before getting mad at capitalists.\n
          \n
          As I’ve written before: I agree with most conclusions of marxist analysis that I know and I probably don’t even know half of them. But I think that political analysis should use LTV as a tool to understand the world and not the end of socio-economical disgussion (because that would ignore important parts of today’s economy).\n
          \n
          > It really just seems like you disagree with the ‘your stolen labor value’ claim in the OP, and are attributing it to the ‘labor theory of value’\n
          \n
          I don’t. I wanted to remind people as to make political analysis not too easy by taking the mental shortcut of reducing current capitalism on the problems pointed out by Marx rendition of LTV.\n
          \n
          > (as opposed to dismissing it because you disagree with some portion of the theory you’ve neglected to mention)\n
          \n
          I don’t disagree. I also don’t disagree with the atomic model of Niels Bohr when it comes to calculating electron potential. When it comes to observing e.g. electron spin, that particular model will probably fall flat. That doesn’t mean I “disagree” with the model, though.\n
          \n
          > My hunch is that you don’t feel confident enough in your understanding to make any kind of firm claim and are just dancing around making vague gestures toward ‘labor’ and ‘value’ definitions as a way of avoiding it.\n
          \n
          I’m not too confident in my economic knowledge, true. But I *am* quite confident in how models should be used in soft sciences.\n
          \n
          Addendum: I’d like to kindly ask you to give me a little bit of benefit of the doubt. Otherwise, I’ll just disengage due to that accusatory tone I’m getting from you being a bit exhausting.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701985632 {#2090
          date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2140 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2133 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2131 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2138 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2345 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2330 …}
        -id: 208351
        -bodyTs: "'accusatori':392 'actual':92 'addendum':365 'agre':118 'also':259 'analysi':124,143,212 'aren':37 'around':326 'ask':371 'atom':265 'attribut':192 'avoid':339 'benefit':380 'better':17 'bit':16,378,401 'bohr':269 'calcul':274 'capit':224 'capitalist':85,111 'claim':186,321 'class':89 'come':272,279 'conclus':121 'confid':310,345,355 'current':223 'd':367 'danc':325 'definit':334 'disagre':179,242,257,262,297 'disengag':388 'disguss':162 'dismiss':238 'doesn':293 'doubt':383 'due':389 'e.g':282 'easi':215 'econom':24,80,161,348 'economi':172 'electron':275,283 'end':83,157 'engag':93 'enough':311 'even':103,133 'exhaust':402 'explain':104 'explicit':33 'exploit':86 'fall':290 'feel':71,309 'firm':320 'flat':291 'futur':58 'gestur':329 'get':108,396 'give':374 'guess':55,99 'half':135 'hunch':303 'i.e':48 'ignor':166 'import':167 'kind':318,370 'know':127,134 'knowledg':349 'labor':184,196,331 'labour':88 'languag':4 'leftist':76 'like':72,177,368 'littl':377 'll':386 'lot':74 'ltv':105,146,234 'm':342,395 'mad':109 'make':52,210,316,327 'marx':231 'marxist':123 'matter':97 'mean':295 'mental':219 'mention':253 'model':27,36,47,266,287,300,358 'neglect':251 'neutral':3 'niel':268 'object':30,41 'observ':53,281 'op':69,189 'oppos':236 'otherwis':384 'part':168 'particular':286 'peopl':207 'point':228 'polit':142,211 'portion':245 'potenti':276 'probabl':130,289 'problem':227 'proper':106 'quit':354 're':44 'realiti':50 'realli':174 'reduc':222 'remind':206 'rendit':232 'respons':66 'say':22,64 'scienc':364 'seem':176 'shortcut':220 'simplifi':49 'socio':160 'socio-econom':159 'soft':363 'spin':284 'start':81 'stolen':183 'subject':96 'sudden':8 'take':217 'theori':25,197,248 'think':77,140 'though':301 'today':170 'tone':393 'tool':149 'toward':330 'tri':11,20 'true':31,350 'truth':42 'understand':79,151,314 'understood':14 'use':39,45,145,361 'vagu':328 'valu':185,199,333 've':114,250 'want':204 'way':337 'world':153 'worth':63 'would':60,165 'written':115 'yeah':35"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5489133"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703384328 {#2093
          date: 2023-12-24 03:18:48.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701985632 {#2092
          date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208351
      }
    ]
    -id: 20852
    -titleTs: "'enemi':3 'know':1"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1702038246
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemmy.ml/post/8990722"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701951846 {#2506
      date: 2023-12-07 13:24:06.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: null
  +root: null
  +body: """
    Reminder that while the labour theory of value can be practical to understand certain aspects of society, it is still culturally biased and not “objectively” true.\n
    \n
    What creates value can only be answered in a cultural framework.
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 12
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1703499828 {#1580
    date: 2023-12-25 11:23:48.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1561 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1564 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1563 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1565 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1558 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1557 …}
  -id: 206964
  -bodyTs: "'answer':33 'aspect':15 'bias':22 'certain':14 'creat':28 'cultur':21,36 'framework':37 'labour':5 'object':25 'practic':11 'remind':1 'societi':17 'still':20 'theori':6 'true':26 'understand':13 'valu':8,29"
  +ranking: 0
  +commentCount: 0
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5480766"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701964861 {#1550
    date: 2023-12-07 17:01:01.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 206964
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
11 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2003 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2559 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2581 …}
    +slug: "Know-your-enemy"
    +title: "Know your enemy"
    +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/4e8abd58-e357-4836-88ce-d57b36597f6b.jpeg"
    +body: null
    +type: "image"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: true
    +commentCount: 76
    +favouriteCount: 676
    +score: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +sticky: false
    +lastActive: DateTime @1702111873 {#2346
      date: 2023-12-09 09:51:13.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2580 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2578 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2575 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2609 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2605 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2622 …}
    +children: [
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1604 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          You’re right. It’s *one* theory. There is however ongoing debate on which theory is “correct”.\n
          \n
          This vid explains it quite well and with Simpsons clips so the hour of video is bearable:\n
          \n
          [www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw)
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701971365 {#1621
          date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1596 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1702 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1683 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1680 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1686 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1692 …}
        -id: 207387
        -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':37 'bearabl':34 'clip':27 'correct':17 'debat':12 'explain':20 'hour':30 'howev':10 'one':6 'ongo':11 'quit':22 're':2 'right':3 'simpson':26 'theori':7,15 'vid':19 'video':32 'well':23 'www.youtube.com':36 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':35"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5483715"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701971365 {#1620
          date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207387
      }
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1721
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1726 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Umm… Thanks for that unnecessarily aggressive seeming and a bit incompehensible addendum, I guess?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 4
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701975001 {#1723
          date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1728 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1730 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1734 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1727 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1733 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1724 …}
        -id: 207642
        -bodyTs: "'addendum':12 'aggress':6 'bit':10 'guess':14 'incompehens':11 'seem':7 'thank':2 'umm':1 'unnecessarili':5"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485206"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975001 {#1722
          date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207642
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1616
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1611 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          I was talking about the theory, not value. Sorry if that didn’t come across.\n
          \n
          Now that I think about it: isn’t value culturally determined in many things? Why are apple products more expensive than other computers with the same specs? Why is a ticket to a Billie Eilish concert more valuable than one to my neighbor’s indie rock band?
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701974894 {#1705
          date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1598 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1629 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1626 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1618 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1597 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1731 …}
        -id: 207637
        -bodyTs: "'across':15 'appl':32 'band':62 'billi':49 'come':14 'comput':38 'concert':51 'cultur':25 'determin':26 'didn':12 'eilish':50 'expens':35 'indi':60 'isn':22 'mani':28 'neighbor':58 'one':55 'product':33 'rock':61 'sorri':9 'spec':42 'talk':3 'theori':6 'thing':29 'think':19 'ticket':46 'valu':8,24 'valuabl':53"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485163"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701974894 {#1711
          date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207637
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1718
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1720 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          Sorry, I interpreted it as aggressive. Figuring out tone in text form is hard and all that. Sorry that I wrongly accused you.\n
          \n
          Things I didn’t get:\n
          \n
          > A reminder that the labour theory of value is not a marxist concept.\n
          \n
          Marx hasn’t been explicity brought up yet (at least not in my comment). Only implicitly in the original post. Again: thought you were attacking me and was like “umm… So what?”\n
          \n
          > When people wave their hands around and say “labor theory of value isn’t objectively true!!”, they’re shadowboxing a ghost.\n
          \n
          I thought you meant me, since that was what I was basically saying. 😅\n
          \n
          > Value != price\n
          \n
          Now, that one wasn’t even implicitly mentioned.\n
          \n
          I hope you don’t hold my misunderstanding against me.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 3
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701975943 {#1715
          date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1716 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1739 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1740 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2465 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2463 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2411 …}
        -id: 207711
        -bodyTs: "'accus':22 'aggress':6 'around':79 'attack':66 'basic':106 'brought':47 'comment':55 'concept':41 'didn':26 'even':115 'explic':46 'figur':7 'form':12 'get':28 'ghost':94 'hand':78 'hard':14 'hasn':43 'hold':123 'hope':119 'implicit':57,116 'interpret':3 'isn':86 'labor':82 'labour':33 'least':51 'like':70 'marx':42 'marxist':40 'meant':98 'mention':117 'misunderstand':125 'object':88 'one':112 'origin':60 'peopl':75 'post':61 'price':109 're':91 'remind':30 'say':81,107 'shadowbox':92 'sinc':100 'sorri':1,18 'text':11 'theori':34,83 'thing':24 'thought':63,96 'tone':9 'true':89 'umm':71 'valu':36,85,108 'wasn':113 'wave':76 'wrong':21 'yet':49"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485494"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975943 {#1714
          date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207711
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2458
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2461 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Where?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701976885 {#2422
          date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2456 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2453 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2457 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2455 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2468 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2469 …}
        -id: 207782
        -bodyTs: ""
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485802"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701976885 {#2462
          date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207782
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2370 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Don’t the two correlate?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701977809 {#2471
          date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2377 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2359 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2364 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2380 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2382 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2384 …}
        -id: 207842
        -bodyTs: "'correl':5 'two':4"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486088"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977809 {#2371
          date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207842
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          > Well now i’m confused. If ‘labor theory of value isn’t objectively true’ isn’t making an argument about the price of a commodity not being equal to the labor it embodies, I am not sure what you’re trying to say by it.\n
          \n
          A theory o value doesn’t necessarily say anything about price. As you said: “value != price”.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701977944 {#2379
          date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1909 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1926 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1874 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1908 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1883 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2389 …}
        -id: 207854
        -bodyTs: "'anyth':54 'argument':19 'commod':25 'confus':5 'doesn':50 'embodi':33 'equal':28 'isn':11,15 'labor':7,31 'm':4 'make':17 'necessarili':52 'o':48 'object':13 'price':22,56,61 're':40 'said':59 'say':43,53 'sure':37 'theori':8,47 'tri':41 'true':14 'valu':10,49,60 'well':1"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486136"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373971 {#2381
          date: 2023-12-24 00:26:11.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977944 {#2383
          date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207854
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2030 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          As far as I understand: Price tries to measure value. Therefore: A price needs a value, but value doesn’t need price. They correlate but are not the same.\n
          \n
          Were am I making the mistake? Genuine question.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980069 {#1403
          date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2032 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2024 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2018 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2011 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2021 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2029 …}
        -id: 207987
        -bodyTs: "'correl':24 'doesn':19 'far':2 'genuin':36 'make':33 'measur':9 'mistak':35 'need':14,21 'price':6,13,22 'question':37 'therefor':11 'tri':7 'understand':5 'valu':10,16,18"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487031"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980069 {#2019
          date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207987
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2393 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          There’s not even academical consensus what value actually *is*, AFAIK. Do preasts add value to anything with their labour? If not: Do social counsellors? What if a priest acts as a counsellor? Ask different economists with their theories of value and you’ll get several answers.\n
          \n
          Economic theories aren’t as rigid as theories from the natural sciences or mathematics. They are dependent on the culture in which they are perceived. A non-capitalist society would have different theories or value (or none at all) than we do.\n
          \n
          [This guy can explain it properly](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw), I’m not an economist and kinda regret making that comment.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 6
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701979923 {#2387
          date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@JayDee@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1384 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1383 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1405 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1382 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1404 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1361 …}
        -id: 207981
        -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':99 'academ':5 'act':30 'actual':9 'add':14 'afaik':11 'answer':47 'anyth':17 'aren':50 'ask':34 'capitalist':76 'comment':110 'consensus':6 'counsellor':25,33 'cultur':67 'depend':64 'differ':35,80 'econom':48 'economist':36,104 'even':4 'explain':94 'get':45 'guy':92 'kinda':106 'labour':20 'll':44 'm':101 'make':108 'mathemat':61 'natur':58 'non':75 'non-capitalist':74 'none':85 'perceiv':72 'preast':13 'priest':29 'proper':96 'regret':107 'rigid':53 'scienc':59 'sever':46 'social':24 'societi':77 'theori':39,49,55,81 'valu':8,15,41,83 'would':78 'www.youtube.com':98 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':97"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486914"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373897 {#2392
          date: 2023-12-24 00:24:57.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701979923 {#2394
          date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207981
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2062 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "I wouldn’t have been able to write it this consise, but that’s kind of one thing I wanted to point towards in my original comment."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980622 {#2082
          date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2081 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2098 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2080 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2089 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2095 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2091 …}
        -id: 208044
        -bodyTs: "'abl':6 'comment':27 'consis':11 'kind':15 'one':17 'origin':26 'point':22 'thing':18 'toward':23 'want':20 'wouldn':2 'write':8"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487230"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980622 {#2085
          date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208044
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2035 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          It’s an economic theory and therefore more to be understood as a model on how economics work.\n
          \n
          The natural sciences have a hard core. The theory of gravity depends on how matter interacts in an objective, physical framework. Economic theories basically describe human interaction which are based on psychology and sociology. Therefore they depend on the societal context they are made in.\n
          \n
          If you understand them as models that are tools on how to understand the world, they become more useful in political analysis (I know we are in a meme community here, but everything is politics and so on and so on…).\n
          \n
          I do subscribe to many conclusions the labour theory of value and especially Marx came to. But I want y’all to *remember* that the theory is a mere tool for understanding and not a sacred, holy theory.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980460 {#2020
          date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2031 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2037 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2075 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2079 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2078 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2097 …}
        -id: 208027
        -bodyTs: "'analysi':85 'base':48 'basic':42 'becom':80 'came':119 'communiti':93 'conclus':110 'context':59 'core':25 'depend':30,55 'describ':43 'econom':4,17,40 'especi':117 'everyth':96 'framework':39 'graviti':29 'hard':24 'holi':141 'human':44 'interact':34,45 'know':87 'labour':112 'made':62 'mani':109 'marx':118 'matter':33 'meme':92 'mere':133 'model':14,69 'natur':20 'object':37 'physic':38 'polit':84,98 'psycholog':50 'rememb':127 'sacr':140 'scienc':21 'societ':58 'sociolog':52 'subscrib':107 'theori':5,27,41,113,130,142 'therefor':7,53 'tool':72,134 'understand':66,76,136 'understood':11 'use':82 'valu':115 'want':123 'work':18 'world':78 'y':124"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487165"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980460 {#2013
          date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208027
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2094
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2241 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          > Why the neutral language all of a sudden?\n
          \n
          I was trying to be understood a bit better.\n
          \n
          > Are you trying to say 'all economic theories and models are not objectively true"?\n
          \n
          Not explicitally, but yeah: models aren’t used for “objective truth”. They’re used to *model* (i.e. simplify) reality to make observations and guesses for the future.\n
          \n
          > Why would that be worth saying in response to the OP?\n
          \n
          I feel like a lot of leftists think that understanding economics starts and ends with “capitalists exploit the labouring class”, while not actually engaging with the subject matter. I guess most can’t even explain LTV properly before getting mad at capitalists.\n
          \n
          As I’ve written before: I agree with most conclusions of marxist analysis that I know and I probably don’t even know half of them. But I think that political analysis should use LTV as a tool to understand the world and not the end of socio-economical disgussion (because that would ignore important parts of today’s economy).\n
          \n
          > It really just seems like you disagree with the ‘your stolen labor value’ claim in the OP, and are attributing it to the ‘labor theory of value’\n
          \n
          I don’t. I wanted to remind people as to make political analysis not too easy by taking the mental shortcut of reducing current capitalism on the problems pointed out by Marx rendition of LTV.\n
          \n
          > (as opposed to dismissing it because you disagree with some portion of the theory you’ve neglected to mention)\n
          \n
          I don’t disagree. I also don’t disagree with the atomic model of Niels Bohr when it comes to calculating electron potential. When it comes to observing e.g. electron spin, that particular model will probably fall flat. That doesn’t mean I “disagree” with the model, though.\n
          \n
          > My hunch is that you don’t feel confident enough in your understanding to make any kind of firm claim and are just dancing around making vague gestures toward ‘labor’ and ‘value’ definitions as a way of avoiding it.\n
          \n
          I’m not too confident in my economic knowledge, true. But I *am* quite confident in how models should be used in soft sciences.\n
          \n
          Addendum: I’d like to kindly ask you to give me a little bit of benefit of the doubt. Otherwise, I’ll just disengage due to that accusatory tone I’m getting from you being a bit exhausting.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701985632 {#2090
          date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2140 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2133 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2131 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2138 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2345 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2330 …}
        -id: 208351
        -bodyTs: "'accusatori':392 'actual':92 'addendum':365 'agre':118 'also':259 'analysi':124,143,212 'aren':37 'around':326 'ask':371 'atom':265 'attribut':192 'avoid':339 'benefit':380 'better':17 'bit':16,378,401 'bohr':269 'calcul':274 'capit':224 'capitalist':85,111 'claim':186,321 'class':89 'come':272,279 'conclus':121 'confid':310,345,355 'current':223 'd':367 'danc':325 'definit':334 'disagre':179,242,257,262,297 'disengag':388 'disguss':162 'dismiss':238 'doesn':293 'doubt':383 'due':389 'e.g':282 'easi':215 'econom':24,80,161,348 'economi':172 'electron':275,283 'end':83,157 'engag':93 'enough':311 'even':103,133 'exhaust':402 'explain':104 'explicit':33 'exploit':86 'fall':290 'feel':71,309 'firm':320 'flat':291 'futur':58 'gestur':329 'get':108,396 'give':374 'guess':55,99 'half':135 'hunch':303 'i.e':48 'ignor':166 'import':167 'kind':318,370 'know':127,134 'knowledg':349 'labor':184,196,331 'labour':88 'languag':4 'leftist':76 'like':72,177,368 'littl':377 'll':386 'lot':74 'ltv':105,146,234 'm':342,395 'mad':109 'make':52,210,316,327 'marx':231 'marxist':123 'matter':97 'mean':295 'mental':219 'mention':253 'model':27,36,47,266,287,300,358 'neglect':251 'neutral':3 'niel':268 'object':30,41 'observ':53,281 'op':69,189 'oppos':236 'otherwis':384 'part':168 'particular':286 'peopl':207 'point':228 'polit':142,211 'portion':245 'potenti':276 'probabl':130,289 'problem':227 'proper':106 'quit':354 're':44 'realiti':50 'realli':174 'reduc':222 'remind':206 'rendit':232 'respons':66 'say':22,64 'scienc':364 'seem':176 'shortcut':220 'simplifi':49 'socio':160 'socio-econom':159 'soft':363 'spin':284 'start':81 'stolen':183 'subject':96 'sudden':8 'take':217 'theori':25,197,248 'think':77,140 'though':301 'today':170 'tone':393 'tool':149 'toward':330 'tri':11,20 'true':31,350 'truth':42 'understand':79,151,314 'understood':14 'use':39,45,145,361 'vagu':328 'valu':185,199,333 've':114,250 'want':204 'way':337 'world':153 'worth':63 'would':60,165 'written':115 'yeah':35"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5489133"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703384328 {#2093
          date: 2023-12-24 03:18:48.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701985632 {#2092
          date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208351
      }
    ]
    -id: 20852
    -titleTs: "'enemi':3 'know':1"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1702038246
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemmy.ml/post/8990722"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701951846 {#2506
      date: 2023-12-07 13:24:06.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: null
  +root: null
  +body: """
    Reminder that while the labour theory of value can be practical to understand certain aspects of society, it is still culturally biased and not “objectively” true.\n
    \n
    What creates value can only be answered in a cultural framework.
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 12
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1703499828 {#1580
    date: 2023-12-25 11:23:48.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1561 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1564 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1563 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1565 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1558 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1557 …}
  -id: 206964
  -bodyTs: "'answer':33 'aspect':15 'bias':22 'certain':14 'creat':28 'cultur':21,36 'framework':37 'labour':5 'object':25 'practic':11 'remind':1 'societi':17 'still':20 'theori':6 'true':26 'understand':13 'valu':8,29"
  +ranking: 0
  +commentCount: 0
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5480766"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701964861 {#1550
    date: 2023-12-07 17:01:01.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 206964
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
12 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2003 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2559 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2581 …}
    +slug: "Know-your-enemy"
    +title: "Know your enemy"
    +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/4e8abd58-e357-4836-88ce-d57b36597f6b.jpeg"
    +body: null
    +type: "image"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: true
    +commentCount: 76
    +favouriteCount: 676
    +score: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +sticky: false
    +lastActive: DateTime @1702111873 {#2346
      date: 2023-12-09 09:51:13.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2580 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2578 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2575 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2609 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2605 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2622 …}
    +children: [
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1604 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          You’re right. It’s *one* theory. There is however ongoing debate on which theory is “correct”.\n
          \n
          This vid explains it quite well and with Simpsons clips so the hour of video is bearable:\n
          \n
          [www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw)
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701971365 {#1621
          date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1596 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1702 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1683 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1680 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1686 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1692 …}
        -id: 207387
        -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':37 'bearabl':34 'clip':27 'correct':17 'debat':12 'explain':20 'hour':30 'howev':10 'one':6 'ongo':11 'quit':22 're':2 'right':3 'simpson':26 'theori':7,15 'vid':19 'video':32 'well':23 'www.youtube.com':36 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':35"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5483715"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701971365 {#1620
          date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207387
      }
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1721
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1726 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Umm… Thanks for that unnecessarily aggressive seeming and a bit incompehensible addendum, I guess?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 4
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701975001 {#1723
          date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1728 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1730 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1734 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1727 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1733 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1724 …}
        -id: 207642
        -bodyTs: "'addendum':12 'aggress':6 'bit':10 'guess':14 'incompehens':11 'seem':7 'thank':2 'umm':1 'unnecessarili':5"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485206"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975001 {#1722
          date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207642
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1616
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1611 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          I was talking about the theory, not value. Sorry if that didn’t come across.\n
          \n
          Now that I think about it: isn’t value culturally determined in many things? Why are apple products more expensive than other computers with the same specs? Why is a ticket to a Billie Eilish concert more valuable than one to my neighbor’s indie rock band?
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701974894 {#1705
          date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1598 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1629 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1626 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1618 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1597 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1731 …}
        -id: 207637
        -bodyTs: "'across':15 'appl':32 'band':62 'billi':49 'come':14 'comput':38 'concert':51 'cultur':25 'determin':26 'didn':12 'eilish':50 'expens':35 'indi':60 'isn':22 'mani':28 'neighbor':58 'one':55 'product':33 'rock':61 'sorri':9 'spec':42 'talk':3 'theori':6 'thing':29 'think':19 'ticket':46 'valu':8,24 'valuabl':53"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485163"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701974894 {#1711
          date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207637
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1718
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1720 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          Sorry, I interpreted it as aggressive. Figuring out tone in text form is hard and all that. Sorry that I wrongly accused you.\n
          \n
          Things I didn’t get:\n
          \n
          > A reminder that the labour theory of value is not a marxist concept.\n
          \n
          Marx hasn’t been explicity brought up yet (at least not in my comment). Only implicitly in the original post. Again: thought you were attacking me and was like “umm… So what?”\n
          \n
          > When people wave their hands around and say “labor theory of value isn’t objectively true!!”, they’re shadowboxing a ghost.\n
          \n
          I thought you meant me, since that was what I was basically saying. 😅\n
          \n
          > Value != price\n
          \n
          Now, that one wasn’t even implicitly mentioned.\n
          \n
          I hope you don’t hold my misunderstanding against me.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 3
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701975943 {#1715
          date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1716 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1739 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1740 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2465 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2463 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2411 …}
        -id: 207711
        -bodyTs: "'accus':22 'aggress':6 'around':79 'attack':66 'basic':106 'brought':47 'comment':55 'concept':41 'didn':26 'even':115 'explic':46 'figur':7 'form':12 'get':28 'ghost':94 'hand':78 'hard':14 'hasn':43 'hold':123 'hope':119 'implicit':57,116 'interpret':3 'isn':86 'labor':82 'labour':33 'least':51 'like':70 'marx':42 'marxist':40 'meant':98 'mention':117 'misunderstand':125 'object':88 'one':112 'origin':60 'peopl':75 'post':61 'price':109 're':91 'remind':30 'say':81,107 'shadowbox':92 'sinc':100 'sorri':1,18 'text':11 'theori':34,83 'thing':24 'thought':63,96 'tone':9 'true':89 'umm':71 'valu':36,85,108 'wasn':113 'wave':76 'wrong':21 'yet':49"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485494"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975943 {#1714
          date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207711
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2458
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2461 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Where?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701976885 {#2422
          date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2456 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2453 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2457 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2455 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2468 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2469 …}
        -id: 207782
        -bodyTs: ""
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485802"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701976885 {#2462
          date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207782
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2370 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Don’t the two correlate?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701977809 {#2471
          date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2377 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2359 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2364 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2380 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2382 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2384 …}
        -id: 207842
        -bodyTs: "'correl':5 'two':4"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486088"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977809 {#2371
          date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207842
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          > Well now i’m confused. If ‘labor theory of value isn’t objectively true’ isn’t making an argument about the price of a commodity not being equal to the labor it embodies, I am not sure what you’re trying to say by it.\n
          \n
          A theory o value doesn’t necessarily say anything about price. As you said: “value != price”.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701977944 {#2379
          date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1909 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1926 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1874 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1908 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1883 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2389 …}
        -id: 207854
        -bodyTs: "'anyth':54 'argument':19 'commod':25 'confus':5 'doesn':50 'embodi':33 'equal':28 'isn':11,15 'labor':7,31 'm':4 'make':17 'necessarili':52 'o':48 'object':13 'price':22,56,61 're':40 'said':59 'say':43,53 'sure':37 'theori':8,47 'tri':41 'true':14 'valu':10,49,60 'well':1"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486136"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373971 {#2381
          date: 2023-12-24 00:26:11.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977944 {#2383
          date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207854
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2030 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          As far as I understand: Price tries to measure value. Therefore: A price needs a value, but value doesn’t need price. They correlate but are not the same.\n
          \n
          Were am I making the mistake? Genuine question.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980069 {#1403
          date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2032 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2024 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2018 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2011 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2021 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2029 …}
        -id: 207987
        -bodyTs: "'correl':24 'doesn':19 'far':2 'genuin':36 'make':33 'measur':9 'mistak':35 'need':14,21 'price':6,13,22 'question':37 'therefor':11 'tri':7 'understand':5 'valu':10,16,18"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487031"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980069 {#2019
          date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207987
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2393 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          There’s not even academical consensus what value actually *is*, AFAIK. Do preasts add value to anything with their labour? If not: Do social counsellors? What if a priest acts as a counsellor? Ask different economists with their theories of value and you’ll get several answers.\n
          \n
          Economic theories aren’t as rigid as theories from the natural sciences or mathematics. They are dependent on the culture in which they are perceived. A non-capitalist society would have different theories or value (or none at all) than we do.\n
          \n
          [This guy can explain it properly](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw), I’m not an economist and kinda regret making that comment.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 6
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701979923 {#2387
          date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@JayDee@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1384 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1383 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1405 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1382 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1404 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1361 …}
        -id: 207981
        -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':99 'academ':5 'act':30 'actual':9 'add':14 'afaik':11 'answer':47 'anyth':17 'aren':50 'ask':34 'capitalist':76 'comment':110 'consensus':6 'counsellor':25,33 'cultur':67 'depend':64 'differ':35,80 'econom':48 'economist':36,104 'even':4 'explain':94 'get':45 'guy':92 'kinda':106 'labour':20 'll':44 'm':101 'make':108 'mathemat':61 'natur':58 'non':75 'non-capitalist':74 'none':85 'perceiv':72 'preast':13 'priest':29 'proper':96 'regret':107 'rigid':53 'scienc':59 'sever':46 'social':24 'societi':77 'theori':39,49,55,81 'valu':8,15,41,83 'would':78 'www.youtube.com':98 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':97"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486914"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373897 {#2392
          date: 2023-12-24 00:24:57.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701979923 {#2394
          date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207981
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2062 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "I wouldn’t have been able to write it this consise, but that’s kind of one thing I wanted to point towards in my original comment."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980622 {#2082
          date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2081 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2098 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2080 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2089 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2095 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2091 …}
        -id: 208044
        -bodyTs: "'abl':6 'comment':27 'consis':11 'kind':15 'one':17 'origin':26 'point':22 'thing':18 'toward':23 'want':20 'wouldn':2 'write':8"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487230"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980622 {#2085
          date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208044
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2035 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          It’s an economic theory and therefore more to be understood as a model on how economics work.\n
          \n
          The natural sciences have a hard core. The theory of gravity depends on how matter interacts in an objective, physical framework. Economic theories basically describe human interaction which are based on psychology and sociology. Therefore they depend on the societal context they are made in.\n
          \n
          If you understand them as models that are tools on how to understand the world, they become more useful in political analysis (I know we are in a meme community here, but everything is politics and so on and so on…).\n
          \n
          I do subscribe to many conclusions the labour theory of value and especially Marx came to. But I want y’all to *remember* that the theory is a mere tool for understanding and not a sacred, holy theory.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980460 {#2020
          date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2031 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2037 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2075 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2079 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2078 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2097 …}
        -id: 208027
        -bodyTs: "'analysi':85 'base':48 'basic':42 'becom':80 'came':119 'communiti':93 'conclus':110 'context':59 'core':25 'depend':30,55 'describ':43 'econom':4,17,40 'especi':117 'everyth':96 'framework':39 'graviti':29 'hard':24 'holi':141 'human':44 'interact':34,45 'know':87 'labour':112 'made':62 'mani':109 'marx':118 'matter':33 'meme':92 'mere':133 'model':14,69 'natur':20 'object':37 'physic':38 'polit':84,98 'psycholog':50 'rememb':127 'sacr':140 'scienc':21 'societ':58 'sociolog':52 'subscrib':107 'theori':5,27,41,113,130,142 'therefor':7,53 'tool':72,134 'understand':66,76,136 'understood':11 'use':82 'valu':115 'want':123 'work':18 'world':78 'y':124"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487165"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980460 {#2013
          date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208027
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2094
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2241 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          > Why the neutral language all of a sudden?\n
          \n
          I was trying to be understood a bit better.\n
          \n
          > Are you trying to say 'all economic theories and models are not objectively true"?\n
          \n
          Not explicitally, but yeah: models aren’t used for “objective truth”. They’re used to *model* (i.e. simplify) reality to make observations and guesses for the future.\n
          \n
          > Why would that be worth saying in response to the OP?\n
          \n
          I feel like a lot of leftists think that understanding economics starts and ends with “capitalists exploit the labouring class”, while not actually engaging with the subject matter. I guess most can’t even explain LTV properly before getting mad at capitalists.\n
          \n
          As I’ve written before: I agree with most conclusions of marxist analysis that I know and I probably don’t even know half of them. But I think that political analysis should use LTV as a tool to understand the world and not the end of socio-economical disgussion (because that would ignore important parts of today’s economy).\n
          \n
          > It really just seems like you disagree with the ‘your stolen labor value’ claim in the OP, and are attributing it to the ‘labor theory of value’\n
          \n
          I don’t. I wanted to remind people as to make political analysis not too easy by taking the mental shortcut of reducing current capitalism on the problems pointed out by Marx rendition of LTV.\n
          \n
          > (as opposed to dismissing it because you disagree with some portion of the theory you’ve neglected to mention)\n
          \n
          I don’t disagree. I also don’t disagree with the atomic model of Niels Bohr when it comes to calculating electron potential. When it comes to observing e.g. electron spin, that particular model will probably fall flat. That doesn’t mean I “disagree” with the model, though.\n
          \n
          > My hunch is that you don’t feel confident enough in your understanding to make any kind of firm claim and are just dancing around making vague gestures toward ‘labor’ and ‘value’ definitions as a way of avoiding it.\n
          \n
          I’m not too confident in my economic knowledge, true. But I *am* quite confident in how models should be used in soft sciences.\n
          \n
          Addendum: I’d like to kindly ask you to give me a little bit of benefit of the doubt. Otherwise, I’ll just disengage due to that accusatory tone I’m getting from you being a bit exhausting.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701985632 {#2090
          date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2140 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2133 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2131 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2138 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2345 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2330 …}
        -id: 208351
        -bodyTs: "'accusatori':392 'actual':92 'addendum':365 'agre':118 'also':259 'analysi':124,143,212 'aren':37 'around':326 'ask':371 'atom':265 'attribut':192 'avoid':339 'benefit':380 'better':17 'bit':16,378,401 'bohr':269 'calcul':274 'capit':224 'capitalist':85,111 'claim':186,321 'class':89 'come':272,279 'conclus':121 'confid':310,345,355 'current':223 'd':367 'danc':325 'definit':334 'disagre':179,242,257,262,297 'disengag':388 'disguss':162 'dismiss':238 'doesn':293 'doubt':383 'due':389 'e.g':282 'easi':215 'econom':24,80,161,348 'economi':172 'electron':275,283 'end':83,157 'engag':93 'enough':311 'even':103,133 'exhaust':402 'explain':104 'explicit':33 'exploit':86 'fall':290 'feel':71,309 'firm':320 'flat':291 'futur':58 'gestur':329 'get':108,396 'give':374 'guess':55,99 'half':135 'hunch':303 'i.e':48 'ignor':166 'import':167 'kind':318,370 'know':127,134 'knowledg':349 'labor':184,196,331 'labour':88 'languag':4 'leftist':76 'like':72,177,368 'littl':377 'll':386 'lot':74 'ltv':105,146,234 'm':342,395 'mad':109 'make':52,210,316,327 'marx':231 'marxist':123 'matter':97 'mean':295 'mental':219 'mention':253 'model':27,36,47,266,287,300,358 'neglect':251 'neutral':3 'niel':268 'object':30,41 'observ':53,281 'op':69,189 'oppos':236 'otherwis':384 'part':168 'particular':286 'peopl':207 'point':228 'polit':142,211 'portion':245 'potenti':276 'probabl':130,289 'problem':227 'proper':106 'quit':354 're':44 'realiti':50 'realli':174 'reduc':222 'remind':206 'rendit':232 'respons':66 'say':22,64 'scienc':364 'seem':176 'shortcut':220 'simplifi':49 'socio':160 'socio-econom':159 'soft':363 'spin':284 'start':81 'stolen':183 'subject':96 'sudden':8 'take':217 'theori':25,197,248 'think':77,140 'though':301 'today':170 'tone':393 'tool':149 'toward':330 'tri':11,20 'true':31,350 'truth':42 'understand':79,151,314 'understood':14 'use':39,45,145,361 'vagu':328 'valu':185,199,333 've':114,250 'want':204 'way':337 'world':153 'worth':63 'would':60,165 'written':115 'yeah':35"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5489133"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703384328 {#2093
          date: 2023-12-24 03:18:48.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701985632 {#2092
          date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208351
      }
    ]
    -id: 20852
    -titleTs: "'enemi':3 'know':1"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1702038246
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemmy.ml/post/8990722"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701951846 {#2506
      date: 2023-12-07 13:24:06.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: null
  +root: null
  +body: """
    Reminder that while the labour theory of value can be practical to understand certain aspects of society, it is still culturally biased and not “objectively” true.\n
    \n
    What creates value can only be answered in a cultural framework.
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 12
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1703499828 {#1580
    date: 2023-12-25 11:23:48.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1561 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1564 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1563 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1565 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1558 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1557 …}
  -id: 206964
  -bodyTs: "'answer':33 'aspect':15 'bias':22 'certain':14 'creat':28 'cultur':21,36 'framework':37 'labour':5 'object':25 'practic':11 'remind':1 'societi':17 'still':20 'theori':6 'true':26 'understand':13 'valu':8,29"
  +ranking: 0
  +commentCount: 0
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5480766"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701964861 {#1550
    date: 2023-12-07 17:01:01.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 206964
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
13 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
14 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1721
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2003 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2559 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2581 …}
    +slug: "Know-your-enemy"
    +title: "Know your enemy"
    +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/4e8abd58-e357-4836-88ce-d57b36597f6b.jpeg"
    +body: null
    +type: "image"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: true
    +commentCount: 76
    +favouriteCount: 676
    +score: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +sticky: false
    +lastActive: DateTime @1702111873 {#2346
      date: 2023-12-09 09:51:13.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2580 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2578 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2575 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2609 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2605 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2622 …}
    +children: [
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1604 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
          +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
          +image: null
          +parent: null
          +root: null
          +body: """
            Reminder that while the labour theory of value can be practical to understand certain aspects of society, it is still culturally biased and not “objectively” true.\n
            \n
            What creates value can only be answered in a cultural framework.
            """
          +lang: "en"
          +isAdult: false
          +favouriteCount: 12
          +score: 0
          +lastActive: DateTime @1703499828 {#1580
            date: 2023-12-25 11:23:48.0 +01:00
          }
          +ip: null
          +tags: null
          +mentions: [
            "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          ]
          +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1561 …}
          +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1564 …}
          +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1563 …}
          +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1565 …}
          +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1558 …}
          +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1557 …}
          -id: 206964
          -bodyTs: "'answer':33 'aspect':15 'bias':22 'certain':14 'creat':28 'cultur':21,36 'framework':37 'labour':5 'object':25 'practic':11 'remind':1 'societi':17 'still':20 'theori':6 'true':26 'understand':13 'valu':8,29"
          +ranking: 0
          +commentCount: 0
          +upVotes: 0
          +downVotes: 0
          +visibility: "visible             "
          +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5480766"
          +editedAt: null
          +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701964861 {#1550
            date: 2023-12-07 17:01:01.0 +01:00
          }
          +"title": 206964
        }
        +body: """
          You’re right. It’s *one* theory. There is however ongoing debate on which theory is “correct”.\n
          \n
          This vid explains it quite well and with Simpsons clips so the hour of video is bearable:\n
          \n
          [www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw)
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701971365 {#1621
          date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1596 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1702 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1683 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1680 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1686 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1692 …}
        -id: 207387
        -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':37 'bearabl':34 'clip':27 'correct':17 'debat':12 'explain':20 'hour':30 'howev':10 'one':6 'ongo':11 'quit':22 're':2 'right':3 'simpson':26 'theori':7,15 'vid':19 'video':32 'well':23 'www.youtube.com':36 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':35"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5483715"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701971365 {#1620
          date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207387
      }
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1721}
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1616
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1611 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          I was talking about the theory, not value. Sorry if that didn’t come across.\n
          \n
          Now that I think about it: isn’t value culturally determined in many things? Why are apple products more expensive than other computers with the same specs? Why is a ticket to a Billie Eilish concert more valuable than one to my neighbor’s indie rock band?
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701974894 {#1705
          date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1598 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1629 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1626 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1618 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1597 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1731 …}
        -id: 207637
        -bodyTs: "'across':15 'appl':32 'band':62 'billi':49 'come':14 'comput':38 'concert':51 'cultur':25 'determin':26 'didn':12 'eilish':50 'expens':35 'indi':60 'isn':22 'mani':28 'neighbor':58 'one':55 'product':33 'rock':61 'sorri':9 'spec':42 'talk':3 'theori':6 'thing':29 'think':19 'ticket':46 'valu':8,24 'valuabl':53"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485163"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701974894 {#1711
          date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207637
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1718
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1720 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          Sorry, I interpreted it as aggressive. Figuring out tone in text form is hard and all that. Sorry that I wrongly accused you.\n
          \n
          Things I didn’t get:\n
          \n
          > A reminder that the labour theory of value is not a marxist concept.\n
          \n
          Marx hasn’t been explicity brought up yet (at least not in my comment). Only implicitly in the original post. Again: thought you were attacking me and was like “umm… So what?”\n
          \n
          > When people wave their hands around and say “labor theory of value isn’t objectively true!!”, they’re shadowboxing a ghost.\n
          \n
          I thought you meant me, since that was what I was basically saying. 😅\n
          \n
          > Value != price\n
          \n
          Now, that one wasn’t even implicitly mentioned.\n
          \n
          I hope you don’t hold my misunderstanding against me.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 3
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701975943 {#1715
          date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1716 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1739 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1740 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2465 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2463 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2411 …}
        -id: 207711
        -bodyTs: "'accus':22 'aggress':6 'around':79 'attack':66 'basic':106 'brought':47 'comment':55 'concept':41 'didn':26 'even':115 'explic':46 'figur':7 'form':12 'get':28 'ghost':94 'hand':78 'hard':14 'hasn':43 'hold':123 'hope':119 'implicit':57,116 'interpret':3 'isn':86 'labor':82 'labour':33 'least':51 'like':70 'marx':42 'marxist':40 'meant':98 'mention':117 'misunderstand':125 'object':88 'one':112 'origin':60 'peopl':75 'post':61 'price':109 're':91 'remind':30 'say':81,107 'shadowbox':92 'sinc':100 'sorri':1,18 'text':11 'theori':34,83 'thing':24 'thought':63,96 'tone':9 'true':89 'umm':71 'valu':36,85,108 'wasn':113 'wave':76 'wrong':21 'yet':49"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485494"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975943 {#1714
          date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207711
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2458
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2461 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Where?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701976885 {#2422
          date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2456 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2453 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2457 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2455 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2468 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2469 …}
        -id: 207782
        -bodyTs: ""
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485802"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701976885 {#2462
          date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207782
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2370 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Don’t the two correlate?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701977809 {#2471
          date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2377 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2359 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2364 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2380 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2382 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2384 …}
        -id: 207842
        -bodyTs: "'correl':5 'two':4"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486088"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977809 {#2371
          date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207842
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          > Well now i’m confused. If ‘labor theory of value isn’t objectively true’ isn’t making an argument about the price of a commodity not being equal to the labor it embodies, I am not sure what you’re trying to say by it.\n
          \n
          A theory o value doesn’t necessarily say anything about price. As you said: “value != price”.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701977944 {#2379
          date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1909 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1926 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1874 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1908 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1883 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2389 …}
        -id: 207854
        -bodyTs: "'anyth':54 'argument':19 'commod':25 'confus':5 'doesn':50 'embodi':33 'equal':28 'isn':11,15 'labor':7,31 'm':4 'make':17 'necessarili':52 'o':48 'object':13 'price':22,56,61 're':40 'said':59 'say':43,53 'sure':37 'theori':8,47 'tri':41 'true':14 'valu':10,49,60 'well':1"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486136"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373971 {#2381
          date: 2023-12-24 00:26:11.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977944 {#2383
          date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207854
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2030 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          As far as I understand: Price tries to measure value. Therefore: A price needs a value, but value doesn’t need price. They correlate but are not the same.\n
          \n
          Were am I making the mistake? Genuine question.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980069 {#1403
          date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2032 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2024 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2018 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2011 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2021 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2029 …}
        -id: 207987
        -bodyTs: "'correl':24 'doesn':19 'far':2 'genuin':36 'make':33 'measur':9 'mistak':35 'need':14,21 'price':6,13,22 'question':37 'therefor':11 'tri':7 'understand':5 'valu':10,16,18"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487031"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980069 {#2019
          date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207987
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2393 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          There’s not even academical consensus what value actually *is*, AFAIK. Do preasts add value to anything with their labour? If not: Do social counsellors? What if a priest acts as a counsellor? Ask different economists with their theories of value and you’ll get several answers.\n
          \n
          Economic theories aren’t as rigid as theories from the natural sciences or mathematics. They are dependent on the culture in which they are perceived. A non-capitalist society would have different theories or value (or none at all) than we do.\n
          \n
          [This guy can explain it properly](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw), I’m not an economist and kinda regret making that comment.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 6
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701979923 {#2387
          date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@JayDee@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1384 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1383 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1405 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1382 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1404 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1361 …}
        -id: 207981
        -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':99 'academ':5 'act':30 'actual':9 'add':14 'afaik':11 'answer':47 'anyth':17 'aren':50 'ask':34 'capitalist':76 'comment':110 'consensus':6 'counsellor':25,33 'cultur':67 'depend':64 'differ':35,80 'econom':48 'economist':36,104 'even':4 'explain':94 'get':45 'guy':92 'kinda':106 'labour':20 'll':44 'm':101 'make':108 'mathemat':61 'natur':58 'non':75 'non-capitalist':74 'none':85 'perceiv':72 'preast':13 'priest':29 'proper':96 'regret':107 'rigid':53 'scienc':59 'sever':46 'social':24 'societi':77 'theori':39,49,55,81 'valu':8,15,41,83 'would':78 'www.youtube.com':98 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':97"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486914"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373897 {#2392
          date: 2023-12-24 00:24:57.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701979923 {#2394
          date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207981
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2062 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "I wouldn’t have been able to write it this consise, but that’s kind of one thing I wanted to point towards in my original comment."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980622 {#2082
          date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2081 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2098 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2080 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2089 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2095 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2091 …}
        -id: 208044
        -bodyTs: "'abl':6 'comment':27 'consis':11 'kind':15 'one':17 'origin':26 'point':22 'thing':18 'toward':23 'want':20 'wouldn':2 'write':8"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487230"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980622 {#2085
          date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208044
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2035 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          It’s an economic theory and therefore more to be understood as a model on how economics work.\n
          \n
          The natural sciences have a hard core. The theory of gravity depends on how matter interacts in an objective, physical framework. Economic theories basically describe human interaction which are based on psychology and sociology. Therefore they depend on the societal context they are made in.\n
          \n
          If you understand them as models that are tools on how to understand the world, they become more useful in political analysis (I know we are in a meme community here, but everything is politics and so on and so on…).\n
          \n
          I do subscribe to many conclusions the labour theory of value and especially Marx came to. But I want y’all to *remember* that the theory is a mere tool for understanding and not a sacred, holy theory.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980460 {#2020
          date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2031 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2037 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2075 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2079 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2078 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2097 …}
        -id: 208027
        -bodyTs: "'analysi':85 'base':48 'basic':42 'becom':80 'came':119 'communiti':93 'conclus':110 'context':59 'core':25 'depend':30,55 'describ':43 'econom':4,17,40 'especi':117 'everyth':96 'framework':39 'graviti':29 'hard':24 'holi':141 'human':44 'interact':34,45 'know':87 'labour':112 'made':62 'mani':109 'marx':118 'matter':33 'meme':92 'mere':133 'model':14,69 'natur':20 'object':37 'physic':38 'polit':84,98 'psycholog':50 'rememb':127 'sacr':140 'scienc':21 'societ':58 'sociolog':52 'subscrib':107 'theori':5,27,41,113,130,142 'therefor':7,53 'tool':72,134 'understand':66,76,136 'understood':11 'use':82 'valu':115 'want':123 'work':18 'world':78 'y':124"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487165"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980460 {#2013
          date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208027
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2094
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2241 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          > Why the neutral language all of a sudden?\n
          \n
          I was trying to be understood a bit better.\n
          \n
          > Are you trying to say 'all economic theories and models are not objectively true"?\n
          \n
          Not explicitally, but yeah: models aren’t used for “objective truth”. They’re used to *model* (i.e. simplify) reality to make observations and guesses for the future.\n
          \n
          > Why would that be worth saying in response to the OP?\n
          \n
          I feel like a lot of leftists think that understanding economics starts and ends with “capitalists exploit the labouring class”, while not actually engaging with the subject matter. I guess most can’t even explain LTV properly before getting mad at capitalists.\n
          \n
          As I’ve written before: I agree with most conclusions of marxist analysis that I know and I probably don’t even know half of them. But I think that political analysis should use LTV as a tool to understand the world and not the end of socio-economical disgussion (because that would ignore important parts of today’s economy).\n
          \n
          > It really just seems like you disagree with the ‘your stolen labor value’ claim in the OP, and are attributing it to the ‘labor theory of value’\n
          \n
          I don’t. I wanted to remind people as to make political analysis not too easy by taking the mental shortcut of reducing current capitalism on the problems pointed out by Marx rendition of LTV.\n
          \n
          > (as opposed to dismissing it because you disagree with some portion of the theory you’ve neglected to mention)\n
          \n
          I don’t disagree. I also don’t disagree with the atomic model of Niels Bohr when it comes to calculating electron potential. When it comes to observing e.g. electron spin, that particular model will probably fall flat. That doesn’t mean I “disagree” with the model, though.\n
          \n
          > My hunch is that you don’t feel confident enough in your understanding to make any kind of firm claim and are just dancing around making vague gestures toward ‘labor’ and ‘value’ definitions as a way of avoiding it.\n
          \n
          I’m not too confident in my economic knowledge, true. But I *am* quite confident in how models should be used in soft sciences.\n
          \n
          Addendum: I’d like to kindly ask you to give me a little bit of benefit of the doubt. Otherwise, I’ll just disengage due to that accusatory tone I’m getting from you being a bit exhausting.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701985632 {#2090
          date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2140 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2133 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2131 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2138 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2345 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2330 …}
        -id: 208351
        -bodyTs: "'accusatori':392 'actual':92 'addendum':365 'agre':118 'also':259 'analysi':124,143,212 'aren':37 'around':326 'ask':371 'atom':265 'attribut':192 'avoid':339 'benefit':380 'better':17 'bit':16,378,401 'bohr':269 'calcul':274 'capit':224 'capitalist':85,111 'claim':186,321 'class':89 'come':272,279 'conclus':121 'confid':310,345,355 'current':223 'd':367 'danc':325 'definit':334 'disagre':179,242,257,262,297 'disengag':388 'disguss':162 'dismiss':238 'doesn':293 'doubt':383 'due':389 'e.g':282 'easi':215 'econom':24,80,161,348 'economi':172 'electron':275,283 'end':83,157 'engag':93 'enough':311 'even':103,133 'exhaust':402 'explain':104 'explicit':33 'exploit':86 'fall':290 'feel':71,309 'firm':320 'flat':291 'futur':58 'gestur':329 'get':108,396 'give':374 'guess':55,99 'half':135 'hunch':303 'i.e':48 'ignor':166 'import':167 'kind':318,370 'know':127,134 'knowledg':349 'labor':184,196,331 'labour':88 'languag':4 'leftist':76 'like':72,177,368 'littl':377 'll':386 'lot':74 'ltv':105,146,234 'm':342,395 'mad':109 'make':52,210,316,327 'marx':231 'marxist':123 'matter':97 'mean':295 'mental':219 'mention':253 'model':27,36,47,266,287,300,358 'neglect':251 'neutral':3 'niel':268 'object':30,41 'observ':53,281 'op':69,189 'oppos':236 'otherwis':384 'part':168 'particular':286 'peopl':207 'point':228 'polit':142,211 'portion':245 'potenti':276 'probabl':130,289 'problem':227 'proper':106 'quit':354 're':44 'realiti':50 'realli':174 'reduc':222 'remind':206 'rendit':232 'respons':66 'say':22,64 'scienc':364 'seem':176 'shortcut':220 'simplifi':49 'socio':160 'socio-econom':159 'soft':363 'spin':284 'start':81 'stolen':183 'subject':96 'sudden':8 'take':217 'theori':25,197,248 'think':77,140 'though':301 'today':170 'tone':393 'tool':149 'toward':330 'tri':11,20 'true':31,350 'truth':42 'understand':79,151,314 'understood':14 'use':39,45,145,361 'vagu':328 'valu':185,199,333 've':114,250 'want':204 'way':337 'world':153 'worth':63 'would':60,165 'written':115 'yeah':35"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5489133"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703384328 {#2093
          date: 2023-12-24 03:18:48.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701985632 {#2092
          date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208351
      }
    ]
    -id: 20852
    -titleTs: "'enemi':3 'know':1"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1702038246
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemmy.ml/post/8990722"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701951846 {#2506
      date: 2023-12-07 13:24:06.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1726 …}
  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
  +body: "Umm… Thanks for that unnecessarily aggressive seeming and a bit incompehensible addendum, I guess?"
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 4
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1701975001 {#1723
    date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
    "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
    "@archomrade@midwest.social"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1728 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1730 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1734 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1727 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1733 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1724 …}
  -id: 207642
  -bodyTs: "'addendum':12 'aggress':6 'bit':10 'guess':14 'incompehens':11 'seem':7 'thank':2 'umm':1 'unnecessarili':5"
  +ranking: 0
  +commentCount: 0
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485206"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975001 {#1722
    date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 207642
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
15 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1721
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2003 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2559 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2581 …}
    +slug: "Know-your-enemy"
    +title: "Know your enemy"
    +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/4e8abd58-e357-4836-88ce-d57b36597f6b.jpeg"
    +body: null
    +type: "image"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: true
    +commentCount: 76
    +favouriteCount: 676
    +score: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +sticky: false
    +lastActive: DateTime @1702111873 {#2346
      date: 2023-12-09 09:51:13.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2580 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2578 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2575 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2609 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2605 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2622 …}
    +children: [
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1604 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
          +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
          +image: null
          +parent: null
          +root: null
          +body: """
            Reminder that while the labour theory of value can be practical to understand certain aspects of society, it is still culturally biased and not “objectively” true.\n
            \n
            What creates value can only be answered in a cultural framework.
            """
          +lang: "en"
          +isAdult: false
          +favouriteCount: 12
          +score: 0
          +lastActive: DateTime @1703499828 {#1580
            date: 2023-12-25 11:23:48.0 +01:00
          }
          +ip: null
          +tags: null
          +mentions: [
            "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          ]
          +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1561 …}
          +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1564 …}
          +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1563 …}
          +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1565 …}
          +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1558 …}
          +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1557 …}
          -id: 206964
          -bodyTs: "'answer':33 'aspect':15 'bias':22 'certain':14 'creat':28 'cultur':21,36 'framework':37 'labour':5 'object':25 'practic':11 'remind':1 'societi':17 'still':20 'theori':6 'true':26 'understand':13 'valu':8,29"
          +ranking: 0
          +commentCount: 0
          +upVotes: 0
          +downVotes: 0
          +visibility: "visible             "
          +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5480766"
          +editedAt: null
          +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701964861 {#1550
            date: 2023-12-07 17:01:01.0 +01:00
          }
          +"title": 206964
        }
        +body: """
          You’re right. It’s *one* theory. There is however ongoing debate on which theory is “correct”.\n
          \n
          This vid explains it quite well and with Simpsons clips so the hour of video is bearable:\n
          \n
          [www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw)
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701971365 {#1621
          date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1596 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1702 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1683 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1680 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1686 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1692 …}
        -id: 207387
        -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':37 'bearabl':34 'clip':27 'correct':17 'debat':12 'explain':20 'hour':30 'howev':10 'one':6 'ongo':11 'quit':22 're':2 'right':3 'simpson':26 'theori':7,15 'vid':19 'video':32 'well':23 'www.youtube.com':36 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':35"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5483715"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701971365 {#1620
          date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207387
      }
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1721}
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1616
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1611 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          I was talking about the theory, not value. Sorry if that didn’t come across.\n
          \n
          Now that I think about it: isn’t value culturally determined in many things? Why are apple products more expensive than other computers with the same specs? Why is a ticket to a Billie Eilish concert more valuable than one to my neighbor’s indie rock band?
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701974894 {#1705
          date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1598 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1629 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1626 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1618 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1597 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1731 …}
        -id: 207637
        -bodyTs: "'across':15 'appl':32 'band':62 'billi':49 'come':14 'comput':38 'concert':51 'cultur':25 'determin':26 'didn':12 'eilish':50 'expens':35 'indi':60 'isn':22 'mani':28 'neighbor':58 'one':55 'product':33 'rock':61 'sorri':9 'spec':42 'talk':3 'theori':6 'thing':29 'think':19 'ticket':46 'valu':8,24 'valuabl':53"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485163"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701974894 {#1711
          date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207637
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1718
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1720 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          Sorry, I interpreted it as aggressive. Figuring out tone in text form is hard and all that. Sorry that I wrongly accused you.\n
          \n
          Things I didn’t get:\n
          \n
          > A reminder that the labour theory of value is not a marxist concept.\n
          \n
          Marx hasn’t been explicity brought up yet (at least not in my comment). Only implicitly in the original post. Again: thought you were attacking me and was like “umm… So what?”\n
          \n
          > When people wave their hands around and say “labor theory of value isn’t objectively true!!”, they’re shadowboxing a ghost.\n
          \n
          I thought you meant me, since that was what I was basically saying. 😅\n
          \n
          > Value != price\n
          \n
          Now, that one wasn’t even implicitly mentioned.\n
          \n
          I hope you don’t hold my misunderstanding against me.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 3
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701975943 {#1715
          date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1716 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1739 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1740 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2465 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2463 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2411 …}
        -id: 207711
        -bodyTs: "'accus':22 'aggress':6 'around':79 'attack':66 'basic':106 'brought':47 'comment':55 'concept':41 'didn':26 'even':115 'explic':46 'figur':7 'form':12 'get':28 'ghost':94 'hand':78 'hard':14 'hasn':43 'hold':123 'hope':119 'implicit':57,116 'interpret':3 'isn':86 'labor':82 'labour':33 'least':51 'like':70 'marx':42 'marxist':40 'meant':98 'mention':117 'misunderstand':125 'object':88 'one':112 'origin':60 'peopl':75 'post':61 'price':109 're':91 'remind':30 'say':81,107 'shadowbox':92 'sinc':100 'sorri':1,18 'text':11 'theori':34,83 'thing':24 'thought':63,96 'tone':9 'true':89 'umm':71 'valu':36,85,108 'wasn':113 'wave':76 'wrong':21 'yet':49"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485494"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975943 {#1714
          date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207711
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2458
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2461 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Where?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701976885 {#2422
          date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2456 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2453 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2457 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2455 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2468 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2469 …}
        -id: 207782
        -bodyTs: ""
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485802"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701976885 {#2462
          date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207782
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2370 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Don’t the two correlate?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701977809 {#2471
          date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2377 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2359 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2364 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2380 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2382 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2384 …}
        -id: 207842
        -bodyTs: "'correl':5 'two':4"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486088"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977809 {#2371
          date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207842
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          > Well now i’m confused. If ‘labor theory of value isn’t objectively true’ isn’t making an argument about the price of a commodity not being equal to the labor it embodies, I am not sure what you’re trying to say by it.\n
          \n
          A theory o value doesn’t necessarily say anything about price. As you said: “value != price”.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701977944 {#2379
          date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1909 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1926 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1874 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1908 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1883 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2389 …}
        -id: 207854
        -bodyTs: "'anyth':54 'argument':19 'commod':25 'confus':5 'doesn':50 'embodi':33 'equal':28 'isn':11,15 'labor':7,31 'm':4 'make':17 'necessarili':52 'o':48 'object':13 'price':22,56,61 're':40 'said':59 'say':43,53 'sure':37 'theori':8,47 'tri':41 'true':14 'valu':10,49,60 'well':1"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486136"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373971 {#2381
          date: 2023-12-24 00:26:11.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977944 {#2383
          date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207854
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2030 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          As far as I understand: Price tries to measure value. Therefore: A price needs a value, but value doesn’t need price. They correlate but are not the same.\n
          \n
          Were am I making the mistake? Genuine question.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980069 {#1403
          date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2032 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2024 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2018 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2011 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2021 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2029 …}
        -id: 207987
        -bodyTs: "'correl':24 'doesn':19 'far':2 'genuin':36 'make':33 'measur':9 'mistak':35 'need':14,21 'price':6,13,22 'question':37 'therefor':11 'tri':7 'understand':5 'valu':10,16,18"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487031"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980069 {#2019
          date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207987
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2393 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          There’s not even academical consensus what value actually *is*, AFAIK. Do preasts add value to anything with their labour? If not: Do social counsellors? What if a priest acts as a counsellor? Ask different economists with their theories of value and you’ll get several answers.\n
          \n
          Economic theories aren’t as rigid as theories from the natural sciences or mathematics. They are dependent on the culture in which they are perceived. A non-capitalist society would have different theories or value (or none at all) than we do.\n
          \n
          [This guy can explain it properly](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw), I’m not an economist and kinda regret making that comment.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 6
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701979923 {#2387
          date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@JayDee@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1384 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1383 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1405 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1382 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1404 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1361 …}
        -id: 207981
        -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':99 'academ':5 'act':30 'actual':9 'add':14 'afaik':11 'answer':47 'anyth':17 'aren':50 'ask':34 'capitalist':76 'comment':110 'consensus':6 'counsellor':25,33 'cultur':67 'depend':64 'differ':35,80 'econom':48 'economist':36,104 'even':4 'explain':94 'get':45 'guy':92 'kinda':106 'labour':20 'll':44 'm':101 'make':108 'mathemat':61 'natur':58 'non':75 'non-capitalist':74 'none':85 'perceiv':72 'preast':13 'priest':29 'proper':96 'regret':107 'rigid':53 'scienc':59 'sever':46 'social':24 'societi':77 'theori':39,49,55,81 'valu':8,15,41,83 'would':78 'www.youtube.com':98 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':97"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486914"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373897 {#2392
          date: 2023-12-24 00:24:57.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701979923 {#2394
          date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207981
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2062 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "I wouldn’t have been able to write it this consise, but that’s kind of one thing I wanted to point towards in my original comment."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980622 {#2082
          date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2081 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2098 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2080 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2089 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2095 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2091 …}
        -id: 208044
        -bodyTs: "'abl':6 'comment':27 'consis':11 'kind':15 'one':17 'origin':26 'point':22 'thing':18 'toward':23 'want':20 'wouldn':2 'write':8"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487230"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980622 {#2085
          date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208044
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2035 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          It’s an economic theory and therefore more to be understood as a model on how economics work.\n
          \n
          The natural sciences have a hard core. The theory of gravity depends on how matter interacts in an objective, physical framework. Economic theories basically describe human interaction which are based on psychology and sociology. Therefore they depend on the societal context they are made in.\n
          \n
          If you understand them as models that are tools on how to understand the world, they become more useful in political analysis (I know we are in a meme community here, but everything is politics and so on and so on…).\n
          \n
          I do subscribe to many conclusions the labour theory of value and especially Marx came to. But I want y’all to *remember* that the theory is a mere tool for understanding and not a sacred, holy theory.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980460 {#2020
          date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2031 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2037 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2075 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2079 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2078 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2097 …}
        -id: 208027
        -bodyTs: "'analysi':85 'base':48 'basic':42 'becom':80 'came':119 'communiti':93 'conclus':110 'context':59 'core':25 'depend':30,55 'describ':43 'econom':4,17,40 'especi':117 'everyth':96 'framework':39 'graviti':29 'hard':24 'holi':141 'human':44 'interact':34,45 'know':87 'labour':112 'made':62 'mani':109 'marx':118 'matter':33 'meme':92 'mere':133 'model':14,69 'natur':20 'object':37 'physic':38 'polit':84,98 'psycholog':50 'rememb':127 'sacr':140 'scienc':21 'societ':58 'sociolog':52 'subscrib':107 'theori':5,27,41,113,130,142 'therefor':7,53 'tool':72,134 'understand':66,76,136 'understood':11 'use':82 'valu':115 'want':123 'work':18 'world':78 'y':124"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487165"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980460 {#2013
          date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208027
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2094
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2241 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          > Why the neutral language all of a sudden?\n
          \n
          I was trying to be understood a bit better.\n
          \n
          > Are you trying to say 'all economic theories and models are not objectively true"?\n
          \n
          Not explicitally, but yeah: models aren’t used for “objective truth”. They’re used to *model* (i.e. simplify) reality to make observations and guesses for the future.\n
          \n
          > Why would that be worth saying in response to the OP?\n
          \n
          I feel like a lot of leftists think that understanding economics starts and ends with “capitalists exploit the labouring class”, while not actually engaging with the subject matter. I guess most can’t even explain LTV properly before getting mad at capitalists.\n
          \n
          As I’ve written before: I agree with most conclusions of marxist analysis that I know and I probably don’t even know half of them. But I think that political analysis should use LTV as a tool to understand the world and not the end of socio-economical disgussion (because that would ignore important parts of today’s economy).\n
          \n
          > It really just seems like you disagree with the ‘your stolen labor value’ claim in the OP, and are attributing it to the ‘labor theory of value’\n
          \n
          I don’t. I wanted to remind people as to make political analysis not too easy by taking the mental shortcut of reducing current capitalism on the problems pointed out by Marx rendition of LTV.\n
          \n
          > (as opposed to dismissing it because you disagree with some portion of the theory you’ve neglected to mention)\n
          \n
          I don’t disagree. I also don’t disagree with the atomic model of Niels Bohr when it comes to calculating electron potential. When it comes to observing e.g. electron spin, that particular model will probably fall flat. That doesn’t mean I “disagree” with the model, though.\n
          \n
          > My hunch is that you don’t feel confident enough in your understanding to make any kind of firm claim and are just dancing around making vague gestures toward ‘labor’ and ‘value’ definitions as a way of avoiding it.\n
          \n
          I’m not too confident in my economic knowledge, true. But I *am* quite confident in how models should be used in soft sciences.\n
          \n
          Addendum: I’d like to kindly ask you to give me a little bit of benefit of the doubt. Otherwise, I’ll just disengage due to that accusatory tone I’m getting from you being a bit exhausting.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701985632 {#2090
          date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2140 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2133 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2131 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2138 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2345 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2330 …}
        -id: 208351
        -bodyTs: "'accusatori':392 'actual':92 'addendum':365 'agre':118 'also':259 'analysi':124,143,212 'aren':37 'around':326 'ask':371 'atom':265 'attribut':192 'avoid':339 'benefit':380 'better':17 'bit':16,378,401 'bohr':269 'calcul':274 'capit':224 'capitalist':85,111 'claim':186,321 'class':89 'come':272,279 'conclus':121 'confid':310,345,355 'current':223 'd':367 'danc':325 'definit':334 'disagre':179,242,257,262,297 'disengag':388 'disguss':162 'dismiss':238 'doesn':293 'doubt':383 'due':389 'e.g':282 'easi':215 'econom':24,80,161,348 'economi':172 'electron':275,283 'end':83,157 'engag':93 'enough':311 'even':103,133 'exhaust':402 'explain':104 'explicit':33 'exploit':86 'fall':290 'feel':71,309 'firm':320 'flat':291 'futur':58 'gestur':329 'get':108,396 'give':374 'guess':55,99 'half':135 'hunch':303 'i.e':48 'ignor':166 'import':167 'kind':318,370 'know':127,134 'knowledg':349 'labor':184,196,331 'labour':88 'languag':4 'leftist':76 'like':72,177,368 'littl':377 'll':386 'lot':74 'ltv':105,146,234 'm':342,395 'mad':109 'make':52,210,316,327 'marx':231 'marxist':123 'matter':97 'mean':295 'mental':219 'mention':253 'model':27,36,47,266,287,300,358 'neglect':251 'neutral':3 'niel':268 'object':30,41 'observ':53,281 'op':69,189 'oppos':236 'otherwis':384 'part':168 'particular':286 'peopl':207 'point':228 'polit':142,211 'portion':245 'potenti':276 'probabl':130,289 'problem':227 'proper':106 'quit':354 're':44 'realiti':50 'realli':174 'reduc':222 'remind':206 'rendit':232 'respons':66 'say':22,64 'scienc':364 'seem':176 'shortcut':220 'simplifi':49 'socio':160 'socio-econom':159 'soft':363 'spin':284 'start':81 'stolen':183 'subject':96 'sudden':8 'take':217 'theori':25,197,248 'think':77,140 'though':301 'today':170 'tone':393 'tool':149 'toward':330 'tri':11,20 'true':31,350 'truth':42 'understand':79,151,314 'understood':14 'use':39,45,145,361 'vagu':328 'valu':185,199,333 've':114,250 'want':204 'way':337 'world':153 'worth':63 'would':60,165 'written':115 'yeah':35"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5489133"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703384328 {#2093
          date: 2023-12-24 03:18:48.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701985632 {#2092
          date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208351
      }
    ]
    -id: 20852
    -titleTs: "'enemi':3 'know':1"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1702038246
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemmy.ml/post/8990722"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701951846 {#2506
      date: 2023-12-07 13:24:06.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1726 …}
  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
  +body: "Umm… Thanks for that unnecessarily aggressive seeming and a bit incompehensible addendum, I guess?"
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 4
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1701975001 {#1723
    date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
    "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
    "@archomrade@midwest.social"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1728 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1730 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1734 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1727 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1733 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1724 …}
  -id: 207642
  -bodyTs: "'addendum':12 'aggress':6 'bit':10 'guess':14 'incompehens':11 'seem':7 'thank':2 'umm':1 'unnecessarili':5"
  +ranking: 0
  +commentCount: 0
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485206"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975001 {#1722
    date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 207642
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
16 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1721
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2003 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2559 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2581 …}
    +slug: "Know-your-enemy"
    +title: "Know your enemy"
    +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/4e8abd58-e357-4836-88ce-d57b36597f6b.jpeg"
    +body: null
    +type: "image"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: true
    +commentCount: 76
    +favouriteCount: 676
    +score: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +sticky: false
    +lastActive: DateTime @1702111873 {#2346
      date: 2023-12-09 09:51:13.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2580 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2578 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2575 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2609 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2605 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2622 …}
    +children: [
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1604 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
          +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
          +image: null
          +parent: null
          +root: null
          +body: """
            Reminder that while the labour theory of value can be practical to understand certain aspects of society, it is still culturally biased and not “objectively” true.\n
            \n
            What creates value can only be answered in a cultural framework.
            """
          +lang: "en"
          +isAdult: false
          +favouriteCount: 12
          +score: 0
          +lastActive: DateTime @1703499828 {#1580
            date: 2023-12-25 11:23:48.0 +01:00
          }
          +ip: null
          +tags: null
          +mentions: [
            "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          ]
          +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1561 …}
          +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1564 …}
          +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1563 …}
          +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1565 …}
          +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1558 …}
          +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1557 …}
          -id: 206964
          -bodyTs: "'answer':33 'aspect':15 'bias':22 'certain':14 'creat':28 'cultur':21,36 'framework':37 'labour':5 'object':25 'practic':11 'remind':1 'societi':17 'still':20 'theori':6 'true':26 'understand':13 'valu':8,29"
          +ranking: 0
          +commentCount: 0
          +upVotes: 0
          +downVotes: 0
          +visibility: "visible             "
          +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5480766"
          +editedAt: null
          +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701964861 {#1550
            date: 2023-12-07 17:01:01.0 +01:00
          }
          +"title": 206964
        }
        +body: """
          You’re right. It’s *one* theory. There is however ongoing debate on which theory is “correct”.\n
          \n
          This vid explains it quite well and with Simpsons clips so the hour of video is bearable:\n
          \n
          [www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw)
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701971365 {#1621
          date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1596 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1702 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1683 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1680 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1686 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1692 …}
        -id: 207387
        -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':37 'bearabl':34 'clip':27 'correct':17 'debat':12 'explain':20 'hour':30 'howev':10 'one':6 'ongo':11 'quit':22 're':2 'right':3 'simpson':26 'theori':7,15 'vid':19 'video':32 'well':23 'www.youtube.com':36 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':35"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5483715"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701971365 {#1620
          date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207387
      }
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1721}
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1616
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1611 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          I was talking about the theory, not value. Sorry if that didn’t come across.\n
          \n
          Now that I think about it: isn’t value culturally determined in many things? Why are apple products more expensive than other computers with the same specs? Why is a ticket to a Billie Eilish concert more valuable than one to my neighbor’s indie rock band?
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701974894 {#1705
          date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1598 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1629 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1626 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1618 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1597 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1731 …}
        -id: 207637
        -bodyTs: "'across':15 'appl':32 'band':62 'billi':49 'come':14 'comput':38 'concert':51 'cultur':25 'determin':26 'didn':12 'eilish':50 'expens':35 'indi':60 'isn':22 'mani':28 'neighbor':58 'one':55 'product':33 'rock':61 'sorri':9 'spec':42 'talk':3 'theori':6 'thing':29 'think':19 'ticket':46 'valu':8,24 'valuabl':53"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485163"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701974894 {#1711
          date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207637
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1718
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1720 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          Sorry, I interpreted it as aggressive. Figuring out tone in text form is hard and all that. Sorry that I wrongly accused you.\n
          \n
          Things I didn’t get:\n
          \n
          > A reminder that the labour theory of value is not a marxist concept.\n
          \n
          Marx hasn’t been explicity brought up yet (at least not in my comment). Only implicitly in the original post. Again: thought you were attacking me and was like “umm… So what?”\n
          \n
          > When people wave their hands around and say “labor theory of value isn’t objectively true!!”, they’re shadowboxing a ghost.\n
          \n
          I thought you meant me, since that was what I was basically saying. 😅\n
          \n
          > Value != price\n
          \n
          Now, that one wasn’t even implicitly mentioned.\n
          \n
          I hope you don’t hold my misunderstanding against me.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 3
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701975943 {#1715
          date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1716 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1739 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1740 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2465 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2463 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2411 …}
        -id: 207711
        -bodyTs: "'accus':22 'aggress':6 'around':79 'attack':66 'basic':106 'brought':47 'comment':55 'concept':41 'didn':26 'even':115 'explic':46 'figur':7 'form':12 'get':28 'ghost':94 'hand':78 'hard':14 'hasn':43 'hold':123 'hope':119 'implicit':57,116 'interpret':3 'isn':86 'labor':82 'labour':33 'least':51 'like':70 'marx':42 'marxist':40 'meant':98 'mention':117 'misunderstand':125 'object':88 'one':112 'origin':60 'peopl':75 'post':61 'price':109 're':91 'remind':30 'say':81,107 'shadowbox':92 'sinc':100 'sorri':1,18 'text':11 'theori':34,83 'thing':24 'thought':63,96 'tone':9 'true':89 'umm':71 'valu':36,85,108 'wasn':113 'wave':76 'wrong':21 'yet':49"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485494"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975943 {#1714
          date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207711
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2458
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2461 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Where?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701976885 {#2422
          date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2456 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2453 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2457 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2455 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2468 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2469 …}
        -id: 207782
        -bodyTs: ""
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485802"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701976885 {#2462
          date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207782
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2370 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Don’t the two correlate?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701977809 {#2471
          date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2377 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2359 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2364 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2380 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2382 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2384 …}
        -id: 207842
        -bodyTs: "'correl':5 'two':4"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486088"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977809 {#2371
          date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207842
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          > Well now i’m confused. If ‘labor theory of value isn’t objectively true’ isn’t making an argument about the price of a commodity not being equal to the labor it embodies, I am not sure what you’re trying to say by it.\n
          \n
          A theory o value doesn’t necessarily say anything about price. As you said: “value != price”.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701977944 {#2379
          date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1909 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1926 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1874 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1908 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1883 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2389 …}
        -id: 207854
        -bodyTs: "'anyth':54 'argument':19 'commod':25 'confus':5 'doesn':50 'embodi':33 'equal':28 'isn':11,15 'labor':7,31 'm':4 'make':17 'necessarili':52 'o':48 'object':13 'price':22,56,61 're':40 'said':59 'say':43,53 'sure':37 'theori':8,47 'tri':41 'true':14 'valu':10,49,60 'well':1"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486136"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373971 {#2381
          date: 2023-12-24 00:26:11.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977944 {#2383
          date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207854
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2030 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          As far as I understand: Price tries to measure value. Therefore: A price needs a value, but value doesn’t need price. They correlate but are not the same.\n
          \n
          Were am I making the mistake? Genuine question.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980069 {#1403
          date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2032 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2024 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2018 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2011 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2021 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2029 …}
        -id: 207987
        -bodyTs: "'correl':24 'doesn':19 'far':2 'genuin':36 'make':33 'measur':9 'mistak':35 'need':14,21 'price':6,13,22 'question':37 'therefor':11 'tri':7 'understand':5 'valu':10,16,18"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487031"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980069 {#2019
          date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207987
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2393 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          There’s not even academical consensus what value actually *is*, AFAIK. Do preasts add value to anything with their labour? If not: Do social counsellors? What if a priest acts as a counsellor? Ask different economists with their theories of value and you’ll get several answers.\n
          \n
          Economic theories aren’t as rigid as theories from the natural sciences or mathematics. They are dependent on the culture in which they are perceived. A non-capitalist society would have different theories or value (or none at all) than we do.\n
          \n
          [This guy can explain it properly](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw), I’m not an economist and kinda regret making that comment.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 6
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701979923 {#2387
          date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@JayDee@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1384 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1383 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1405 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1382 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1404 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1361 …}
        -id: 207981
        -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':99 'academ':5 'act':30 'actual':9 'add':14 'afaik':11 'answer':47 'anyth':17 'aren':50 'ask':34 'capitalist':76 'comment':110 'consensus':6 'counsellor':25,33 'cultur':67 'depend':64 'differ':35,80 'econom':48 'economist':36,104 'even':4 'explain':94 'get':45 'guy':92 'kinda':106 'labour':20 'll':44 'm':101 'make':108 'mathemat':61 'natur':58 'non':75 'non-capitalist':74 'none':85 'perceiv':72 'preast':13 'priest':29 'proper':96 'regret':107 'rigid':53 'scienc':59 'sever':46 'social':24 'societi':77 'theori':39,49,55,81 'valu':8,15,41,83 'would':78 'www.youtube.com':98 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':97"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486914"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373897 {#2392
          date: 2023-12-24 00:24:57.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701979923 {#2394
          date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207981
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2062 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "I wouldn’t have been able to write it this consise, but that’s kind of one thing I wanted to point towards in my original comment."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980622 {#2082
          date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2081 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2098 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2080 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2089 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2095 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2091 …}
        -id: 208044
        -bodyTs: "'abl':6 'comment':27 'consis':11 'kind':15 'one':17 'origin':26 'point':22 'thing':18 'toward':23 'want':20 'wouldn':2 'write':8"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487230"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980622 {#2085
          date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208044
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2035 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          It’s an economic theory and therefore more to be understood as a model on how economics work.\n
          \n
          The natural sciences have a hard core. The theory of gravity depends on how matter interacts in an objective, physical framework. Economic theories basically describe human interaction which are based on psychology and sociology. Therefore they depend on the societal context they are made in.\n
          \n
          If you understand them as models that are tools on how to understand the world, they become more useful in political analysis (I know we are in a meme community here, but everything is politics and so on and so on…).\n
          \n
          I do subscribe to many conclusions the labour theory of value and especially Marx came to. But I want y’all to *remember* that the theory is a mere tool for understanding and not a sacred, holy theory.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980460 {#2020
          date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2031 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2037 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2075 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2079 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2078 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2097 …}
        -id: 208027
        -bodyTs: "'analysi':85 'base':48 'basic':42 'becom':80 'came':119 'communiti':93 'conclus':110 'context':59 'core':25 'depend':30,55 'describ':43 'econom':4,17,40 'especi':117 'everyth':96 'framework':39 'graviti':29 'hard':24 'holi':141 'human':44 'interact':34,45 'know':87 'labour':112 'made':62 'mani':109 'marx':118 'matter':33 'meme':92 'mere':133 'model':14,69 'natur':20 'object':37 'physic':38 'polit':84,98 'psycholog':50 'rememb':127 'sacr':140 'scienc':21 'societ':58 'sociolog':52 'subscrib':107 'theori':5,27,41,113,130,142 'therefor':7,53 'tool':72,134 'understand':66,76,136 'understood':11 'use':82 'valu':115 'want':123 'work':18 'world':78 'y':124"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487165"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980460 {#2013
          date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208027
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2094
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2241 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          > Why the neutral language all of a sudden?\n
          \n
          I was trying to be understood a bit better.\n
          \n
          > Are you trying to say 'all economic theories and models are not objectively true"?\n
          \n
          Not explicitally, but yeah: models aren’t used for “objective truth”. They’re used to *model* (i.e. simplify) reality to make observations and guesses for the future.\n
          \n
          > Why would that be worth saying in response to the OP?\n
          \n
          I feel like a lot of leftists think that understanding economics starts and ends with “capitalists exploit the labouring class”, while not actually engaging with the subject matter. I guess most can’t even explain LTV properly before getting mad at capitalists.\n
          \n
          As I’ve written before: I agree with most conclusions of marxist analysis that I know and I probably don’t even know half of them. But I think that political analysis should use LTV as a tool to understand the world and not the end of socio-economical disgussion (because that would ignore important parts of today’s economy).\n
          \n
          > It really just seems like you disagree with the ‘your stolen labor value’ claim in the OP, and are attributing it to the ‘labor theory of value’\n
          \n
          I don’t. I wanted to remind people as to make political analysis not too easy by taking the mental shortcut of reducing current capitalism on the problems pointed out by Marx rendition of LTV.\n
          \n
          > (as opposed to dismissing it because you disagree with some portion of the theory you’ve neglected to mention)\n
          \n
          I don’t disagree. I also don’t disagree with the atomic model of Niels Bohr when it comes to calculating electron potential. When it comes to observing e.g. electron spin, that particular model will probably fall flat. That doesn’t mean I “disagree” with the model, though.\n
          \n
          > My hunch is that you don’t feel confident enough in your understanding to make any kind of firm claim and are just dancing around making vague gestures toward ‘labor’ and ‘value’ definitions as a way of avoiding it.\n
          \n
          I’m not too confident in my economic knowledge, true. But I *am* quite confident in how models should be used in soft sciences.\n
          \n
          Addendum: I’d like to kindly ask you to give me a little bit of benefit of the doubt. Otherwise, I’ll just disengage due to that accusatory tone I’m getting from you being a bit exhausting.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701985632 {#2090
          date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2140 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2133 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2131 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2138 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2345 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2330 …}
        -id: 208351
        -bodyTs: "'accusatori':392 'actual':92 'addendum':365 'agre':118 'also':259 'analysi':124,143,212 'aren':37 'around':326 'ask':371 'atom':265 'attribut':192 'avoid':339 'benefit':380 'better':17 'bit':16,378,401 'bohr':269 'calcul':274 'capit':224 'capitalist':85,111 'claim':186,321 'class':89 'come':272,279 'conclus':121 'confid':310,345,355 'current':223 'd':367 'danc':325 'definit':334 'disagre':179,242,257,262,297 'disengag':388 'disguss':162 'dismiss':238 'doesn':293 'doubt':383 'due':389 'e.g':282 'easi':215 'econom':24,80,161,348 'economi':172 'electron':275,283 'end':83,157 'engag':93 'enough':311 'even':103,133 'exhaust':402 'explain':104 'explicit':33 'exploit':86 'fall':290 'feel':71,309 'firm':320 'flat':291 'futur':58 'gestur':329 'get':108,396 'give':374 'guess':55,99 'half':135 'hunch':303 'i.e':48 'ignor':166 'import':167 'kind':318,370 'know':127,134 'knowledg':349 'labor':184,196,331 'labour':88 'languag':4 'leftist':76 'like':72,177,368 'littl':377 'll':386 'lot':74 'ltv':105,146,234 'm':342,395 'mad':109 'make':52,210,316,327 'marx':231 'marxist':123 'matter':97 'mean':295 'mental':219 'mention':253 'model':27,36,47,266,287,300,358 'neglect':251 'neutral':3 'niel':268 'object':30,41 'observ':53,281 'op':69,189 'oppos':236 'otherwis':384 'part':168 'particular':286 'peopl':207 'point':228 'polit':142,211 'portion':245 'potenti':276 'probabl':130,289 'problem':227 'proper':106 'quit':354 're':44 'realiti':50 'realli':174 'reduc':222 'remind':206 'rendit':232 'respons':66 'say':22,64 'scienc':364 'seem':176 'shortcut':220 'simplifi':49 'socio':160 'socio-econom':159 'soft':363 'spin':284 'start':81 'stolen':183 'subject':96 'sudden':8 'take':217 'theori':25,197,248 'think':77,140 'though':301 'today':170 'tone':393 'tool':149 'toward':330 'tri':11,20 'true':31,350 'truth':42 'understand':79,151,314 'understood':14 'use':39,45,145,361 'vagu':328 'valu':185,199,333 've':114,250 'want':204 'way':337 'world':153 'worth':63 'would':60,165 'written':115 'yeah':35"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5489133"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703384328 {#2093
          date: 2023-12-24 03:18:48.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701985632 {#2092
          date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208351
      }
    ]
    -id: 20852
    -titleTs: "'enemi':3 'know':1"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1702038246
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemmy.ml/post/8990722"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701951846 {#2506
      date: 2023-12-07 13:24:06.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1726 …}
  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
  +body: "Umm… Thanks for that unnecessarily aggressive seeming and a bit incompehensible addendum, I guess?"
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 4
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1701975001 {#1723
    date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
    "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
    "@archomrade@midwest.social"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1728 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1730 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1734 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1727 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1733 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1724 …}
  -id: 207642
  -bodyTs: "'addendum':12 'aggress':6 'bit':10 'guess':14 'incompehens':11 'seem':7 'thank':2 'umm':1 'unnecessarili':5"
  +ranking: 0
  +commentCount: 0
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485206"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975001 {#1722
    date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 207642
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
17 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
18 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1616
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2003 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2559 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2581 …}
    +slug: "Know-your-enemy"
    +title: "Know your enemy"
    +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/4e8abd58-e357-4836-88ce-d57b36597f6b.jpeg"
    +body: null
    +type: "image"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: true
    +commentCount: 76
    +favouriteCount: 676
    +score: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +sticky: false
    +lastActive: DateTime @1702111873 {#2346
      date: 2023-12-09 09:51:13.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2580 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2578 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2575 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2609 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2605 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2622 …}
    +children: [
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1604 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
          +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
          +image: null
          +parent: null
          +root: null
          +body: """
            Reminder that while the labour theory of value can be practical to understand certain aspects of society, it is still culturally biased and not “objectively” true.\n
            \n
            What creates value can only be answered in a cultural framework.
            """
          +lang: "en"
          +isAdult: false
          +favouriteCount: 12
          +score: 0
          +lastActive: DateTime @1703499828 {#1580
            date: 2023-12-25 11:23:48.0 +01:00
          }
          +ip: null
          +tags: null
          +mentions: [
            "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          ]
          +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1561 …}
          +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1564 …}
          +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1563 …}
          +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1565 …}
          +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1558 …}
          +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1557 …}
          -id: 206964
          -bodyTs: "'answer':33 'aspect':15 'bias':22 'certain':14 'creat':28 'cultur':21,36 'framework':37 'labour':5 'object':25 'practic':11 'remind':1 'societi':17 'still':20 'theori':6 'true':26 'understand':13 'valu':8,29"
          +ranking: 0
          +commentCount: 0
          +upVotes: 0
          +downVotes: 0
          +visibility: "visible             "
          +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5480766"
          +editedAt: null
          +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701964861 {#1550
            date: 2023-12-07 17:01:01.0 +01:00
          }
          +"title": 206964
        }
        +body: """
          You’re right. It’s *one* theory. There is however ongoing debate on which theory is “correct”.\n
          \n
          This vid explains it quite well and with Simpsons clips so the hour of video is bearable:\n
          \n
          [www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw)
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701971365 {#1621
          date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1596 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1702 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1683 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1680 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1686 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1692 …}
        -id: 207387
        -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':37 'bearabl':34 'clip':27 'correct':17 'debat':12 'explain':20 'hour':30 'howev':10 'one':6 'ongo':11 'quit':22 're':2 'right':3 'simpson':26 'theori':7,15 'vid':19 'video':32 'well':23 'www.youtube.com':36 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':35"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5483715"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701971365 {#1620
          date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207387
      }
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1721
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1726 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Umm… Thanks for that unnecessarily aggressive seeming and a bit incompehensible addendum, I guess?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 4
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701975001 {#1723
          date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1728 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1730 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1734 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1727 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1733 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1724 …}
        -id: 207642
        -bodyTs: "'addendum':12 'aggress':6 'bit':10 'guess':14 'incompehens':11 'seem':7 'thank':2 'umm':1 'unnecessarili':5"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485206"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975001 {#1722
          date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207642
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1616}
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1718
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1720 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          Sorry, I interpreted it as aggressive. Figuring out tone in text form is hard and all that. Sorry that I wrongly accused you.\n
          \n
          Things I didn’t get:\n
          \n
          > A reminder that the labour theory of value is not a marxist concept.\n
          \n
          Marx hasn’t been explicity brought up yet (at least not in my comment). Only implicitly in the original post. Again: thought you were attacking me and was like “umm… So what?”\n
          \n
          > When people wave their hands around and say “labor theory of value isn’t objectively true!!”, they’re shadowboxing a ghost.\n
          \n
          I thought you meant me, since that was what I was basically saying. 😅\n
          \n
          > Value != price\n
          \n
          Now, that one wasn’t even implicitly mentioned.\n
          \n
          I hope you don’t hold my misunderstanding against me.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 3
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701975943 {#1715
          date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1716 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1739 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1740 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2465 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2463 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2411 …}
        -id: 207711
        -bodyTs: "'accus':22 'aggress':6 'around':79 'attack':66 'basic':106 'brought':47 'comment':55 'concept':41 'didn':26 'even':115 'explic':46 'figur':7 'form':12 'get':28 'ghost':94 'hand':78 'hard':14 'hasn':43 'hold':123 'hope':119 'implicit':57,116 'interpret':3 'isn':86 'labor':82 'labour':33 'least':51 'like':70 'marx':42 'marxist':40 'meant':98 'mention':117 'misunderstand':125 'object':88 'one':112 'origin':60 'peopl':75 'post':61 'price':109 're':91 'remind':30 'say':81,107 'shadowbox':92 'sinc':100 'sorri':1,18 'text':11 'theori':34,83 'thing':24 'thought':63,96 'tone':9 'true':89 'umm':71 'valu':36,85,108 'wasn':113 'wave':76 'wrong':21 'yet':49"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485494"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975943 {#1714
          date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207711
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2458
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2461 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Where?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701976885 {#2422
          date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2456 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2453 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2457 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2455 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2468 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2469 …}
        -id: 207782
        -bodyTs: ""
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485802"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701976885 {#2462
          date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207782
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2370 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Don’t the two correlate?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701977809 {#2471
          date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2377 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2359 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2364 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2380 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2382 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2384 …}
        -id: 207842
        -bodyTs: "'correl':5 'two':4"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486088"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977809 {#2371
          date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207842
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          > Well now i’m confused. If ‘labor theory of value isn’t objectively true’ isn’t making an argument about the price of a commodity not being equal to the labor it embodies, I am not sure what you’re trying to say by it.\n
          \n
          A theory o value doesn’t necessarily say anything about price. As you said: “value != price”.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701977944 {#2379
          date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1909 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1926 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1874 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1908 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1883 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2389 …}
        -id: 207854
        -bodyTs: "'anyth':54 'argument':19 'commod':25 'confus':5 'doesn':50 'embodi':33 'equal':28 'isn':11,15 'labor':7,31 'm':4 'make':17 'necessarili':52 'o':48 'object':13 'price':22,56,61 're':40 'said':59 'say':43,53 'sure':37 'theori':8,47 'tri':41 'true':14 'valu':10,49,60 'well':1"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486136"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373971 {#2381
          date: 2023-12-24 00:26:11.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977944 {#2383
          date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207854
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2030 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          As far as I understand: Price tries to measure value. Therefore: A price needs a value, but value doesn’t need price. They correlate but are not the same.\n
          \n
          Were am I making the mistake? Genuine question.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980069 {#1403
          date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2032 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2024 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2018 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2011 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2021 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2029 …}
        -id: 207987
        -bodyTs: "'correl':24 'doesn':19 'far':2 'genuin':36 'make':33 'measur':9 'mistak':35 'need':14,21 'price':6,13,22 'question':37 'therefor':11 'tri':7 'understand':5 'valu':10,16,18"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487031"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980069 {#2019
          date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207987
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2393 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          There’s not even academical consensus what value actually *is*, AFAIK. Do preasts add value to anything with their labour? If not: Do social counsellors? What if a priest acts as a counsellor? Ask different economists with their theories of value and you’ll get several answers.\n
          \n
          Economic theories aren’t as rigid as theories from the natural sciences or mathematics. They are dependent on the culture in which they are perceived. A non-capitalist society would have different theories or value (or none at all) than we do.\n
          \n
          [This guy can explain it properly](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw), I’m not an economist and kinda regret making that comment.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 6
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701979923 {#2387
          date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@JayDee@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1384 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1383 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1405 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1382 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1404 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1361 …}
        -id: 207981
        -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':99 'academ':5 'act':30 'actual':9 'add':14 'afaik':11 'answer':47 'anyth':17 'aren':50 'ask':34 'capitalist':76 'comment':110 'consensus':6 'counsellor':25,33 'cultur':67 'depend':64 'differ':35,80 'econom':48 'economist':36,104 'even':4 'explain':94 'get':45 'guy':92 'kinda':106 'labour':20 'll':44 'm':101 'make':108 'mathemat':61 'natur':58 'non':75 'non-capitalist':74 'none':85 'perceiv':72 'preast':13 'priest':29 'proper':96 'regret':107 'rigid':53 'scienc':59 'sever':46 'social':24 'societi':77 'theori':39,49,55,81 'valu':8,15,41,83 'would':78 'www.youtube.com':98 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':97"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486914"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373897 {#2392
          date: 2023-12-24 00:24:57.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701979923 {#2394
          date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207981
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2062 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "I wouldn’t have been able to write it this consise, but that’s kind of one thing I wanted to point towards in my original comment."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980622 {#2082
          date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2081 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2098 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2080 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2089 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2095 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2091 …}
        -id: 208044
        -bodyTs: "'abl':6 'comment':27 'consis':11 'kind':15 'one':17 'origin':26 'point':22 'thing':18 'toward':23 'want':20 'wouldn':2 'write':8"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487230"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980622 {#2085
          date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208044
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2035 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          It’s an economic theory and therefore more to be understood as a model on how economics work.\n
          \n
          The natural sciences have a hard core. The theory of gravity depends on how matter interacts in an objective, physical framework. Economic theories basically describe human interaction which are based on psychology and sociology. Therefore they depend on the societal context they are made in.\n
          \n
          If you understand them as models that are tools on how to understand the world, they become more useful in political analysis (I know we are in a meme community here, but everything is politics and so on and so on…).\n
          \n
          I do subscribe to many conclusions the labour theory of value and especially Marx came to. But I want y’all to *remember* that the theory is a mere tool for understanding and not a sacred, holy theory.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980460 {#2020
          date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2031 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2037 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2075 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2079 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2078 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2097 …}
        -id: 208027
        -bodyTs: "'analysi':85 'base':48 'basic':42 'becom':80 'came':119 'communiti':93 'conclus':110 'context':59 'core':25 'depend':30,55 'describ':43 'econom':4,17,40 'especi':117 'everyth':96 'framework':39 'graviti':29 'hard':24 'holi':141 'human':44 'interact':34,45 'know':87 'labour':112 'made':62 'mani':109 'marx':118 'matter':33 'meme':92 'mere':133 'model':14,69 'natur':20 'object':37 'physic':38 'polit':84,98 'psycholog':50 'rememb':127 'sacr':140 'scienc':21 'societ':58 'sociolog':52 'subscrib':107 'theori':5,27,41,113,130,142 'therefor':7,53 'tool':72,134 'understand':66,76,136 'understood':11 'use':82 'valu':115 'want':123 'work':18 'world':78 'y':124"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487165"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980460 {#2013
          date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208027
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2094
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2241 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          > Why the neutral language all of a sudden?\n
          \n
          I was trying to be understood a bit better.\n
          \n
          > Are you trying to say 'all economic theories and models are not objectively true"?\n
          \n
          Not explicitally, but yeah: models aren’t used for “objective truth”. They’re used to *model* (i.e. simplify) reality to make observations and guesses for the future.\n
          \n
          > Why would that be worth saying in response to the OP?\n
          \n
          I feel like a lot of leftists think that understanding economics starts and ends with “capitalists exploit the labouring class”, while not actually engaging with the subject matter. I guess most can’t even explain LTV properly before getting mad at capitalists.\n
          \n
          As I’ve written before: I agree with most conclusions of marxist analysis that I know and I probably don’t even know half of them. But I think that political analysis should use LTV as a tool to understand the world and not the end of socio-economical disgussion (because that would ignore important parts of today’s economy).\n
          \n
          > It really just seems like you disagree with the ‘your stolen labor value’ claim in the OP, and are attributing it to the ‘labor theory of value’\n
          \n
          I don’t. I wanted to remind people as to make political analysis not too easy by taking the mental shortcut of reducing current capitalism on the problems pointed out by Marx rendition of LTV.\n
          \n
          > (as opposed to dismissing it because you disagree with some portion of the theory you’ve neglected to mention)\n
          \n
          I don’t disagree. I also don’t disagree with the atomic model of Niels Bohr when it comes to calculating electron potential. When it comes to observing e.g. electron spin, that particular model will probably fall flat. That doesn’t mean I “disagree” with the model, though.\n
          \n
          > My hunch is that you don’t feel confident enough in your understanding to make any kind of firm claim and are just dancing around making vague gestures toward ‘labor’ and ‘value’ definitions as a way of avoiding it.\n
          \n
          I’m not too confident in my economic knowledge, true. But I *am* quite confident in how models should be used in soft sciences.\n
          \n
          Addendum: I’d like to kindly ask you to give me a little bit of benefit of the doubt. Otherwise, I’ll just disengage due to that accusatory tone I’m getting from you being a bit exhausting.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701985632 {#2090
          date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2140 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2133 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2131 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2138 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2345 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2330 …}
        -id: 208351
        -bodyTs: "'accusatori':392 'actual':92 'addendum':365 'agre':118 'also':259 'analysi':124,143,212 'aren':37 'around':326 'ask':371 'atom':265 'attribut':192 'avoid':339 'benefit':380 'better':17 'bit':16,378,401 'bohr':269 'calcul':274 'capit':224 'capitalist':85,111 'claim':186,321 'class':89 'come':272,279 'conclus':121 'confid':310,345,355 'current':223 'd':367 'danc':325 'definit':334 'disagre':179,242,257,262,297 'disengag':388 'disguss':162 'dismiss':238 'doesn':293 'doubt':383 'due':389 'e.g':282 'easi':215 'econom':24,80,161,348 'economi':172 'electron':275,283 'end':83,157 'engag':93 'enough':311 'even':103,133 'exhaust':402 'explain':104 'explicit':33 'exploit':86 'fall':290 'feel':71,309 'firm':320 'flat':291 'futur':58 'gestur':329 'get':108,396 'give':374 'guess':55,99 'half':135 'hunch':303 'i.e':48 'ignor':166 'import':167 'kind':318,370 'know':127,134 'knowledg':349 'labor':184,196,331 'labour':88 'languag':4 'leftist':76 'like':72,177,368 'littl':377 'll':386 'lot':74 'ltv':105,146,234 'm':342,395 'mad':109 'make':52,210,316,327 'marx':231 'marxist':123 'matter':97 'mean':295 'mental':219 'mention':253 'model':27,36,47,266,287,300,358 'neglect':251 'neutral':3 'niel':268 'object':30,41 'observ':53,281 'op':69,189 'oppos':236 'otherwis':384 'part':168 'particular':286 'peopl':207 'point':228 'polit':142,211 'portion':245 'potenti':276 'probabl':130,289 'problem':227 'proper':106 'quit':354 're':44 'realiti':50 'realli':174 'reduc':222 'remind':206 'rendit':232 'respons':66 'say':22,64 'scienc':364 'seem':176 'shortcut':220 'simplifi':49 'socio':160 'socio-econom':159 'soft':363 'spin':284 'start':81 'stolen':183 'subject':96 'sudden':8 'take':217 'theori':25,197,248 'think':77,140 'though':301 'today':170 'tone':393 'tool':149 'toward':330 'tri':11,20 'true':31,350 'truth':42 'understand':79,151,314 'understood':14 'use':39,45,145,361 'vagu':328 'valu':185,199,333 've':114,250 'want':204 'way':337 'world':153 'worth':63 'would':60,165 'written':115 'yeah':35"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5489133"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703384328 {#2093
          date: 2023-12-24 03:18:48.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701985632 {#2092
          date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208351
      }
    ]
    -id: 20852
    -titleTs: "'enemi':3 'know':1"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1702038246
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemmy.ml/post/8990722"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701951846 {#2506
      date: 2023-12-07 13:24:06.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1611 …}
  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
  +body: """
    I was talking about the theory, not value. Sorry if that didn’t come across.\n
    \n
    Now that I think about it: isn’t value culturally determined in many things? Why are apple products more expensive than other computers with the same specs? Why is a ticket to a Billie Eilish concert more valuable than one to my neighbor’s indie rock band?
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 2
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1701974894 {#1705
    date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
    "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
    "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1598 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1629 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1626 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1618 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1597 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1731 …}
  -id: 207637
  -bodyTs: "'across':15 'appl':32 'band':62 'billi':49 'come':14 'comput':38 'concert':51 'cultur':25 'determin':26 'didn':12 'eilish':50 'expens':35 'indi':60 'isn':22 'mani':28 'neighbor':58 'one':55 'product':33 'rock':61 'sorri':9 'spec':42 'talk':3 'theori':6 'thing':29 'think':19 'ticket':46 'valu':8,24 'valuabl':53"
  +ranking: 0
  +commentCount: 0
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485163"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701974894 {#1711
    date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 207637
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
19 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1616
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2003 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2559 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2581 …}
    +slug: "Know-your-enemy"
    +title: "Know your enemy"
    +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/4e8abd58-e357-4836-88ce-d57b36597f6b.jpeg"
    +body: null
    +type: "image"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: true
    +commentCount: 76
    +favouriteCount: 676
    +score: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +sticky: false
    +lastActive: DateTime @1702111873 {#2346
      date: 2023-12-09 09:51:13.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2580 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2578 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2575 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2609 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2605 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2622 …}
    +children: [
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1604 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
          +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
          +image: null
          +parent: null
          +root: null
          +body: """
            Reminder that while the labour theory of value can be practical to understand certain aspects of society, it is still culturally biased and not “objectively” true.\n
            \n
            What creates value can only be answered in a cultural framework.
            """
          +lang: "en"
          +isAdult: false
          +favouriteCount: 12
          +score: 0
          +lastActive: DateTime @1703499828 {#1580
            date: 2023-12-25 11:23:48.0 +01:00
          }
          +ip: null
          +tags: null
          +mentions: [
            "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          ]
          +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1561 …}
          +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1564 …}
          +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1563 …}
          +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1565 …}
          +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1558 …}
          +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1557 …}
          -id: 206964
          -bodyTs: "'answer':33 'aspect':15 'bias':22 'certain':14 'creat':28 'cultur':21,36 'framework':37 'labour':5 'object':25 'practic':11 'remind':1 'societi':17 'still':20 'theori':6 'true':26 'understand':13 'valu':8,29"
          +ranking: 0
          +commentCount: 0
          +upVotes: 0
          +downVotes: 0
          +visibility: "visible             "
          +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5480766"
          +editedAt: null
          +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701964861 {#1550
            date: 2023-12-07 17:01:01.0 +01:00
          }
          +"title": 206964
        }
        +body: """
          You’re right. It’s *one* theory. There is however ongoing debate on which theory is “correct”.\n
          \n
          This vid explains it quite well and with Simpsons clips so the hour of video is bearable:\n
          \n
          [www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw)
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701971365 {#1621
          date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1596 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1702 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1683 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1680 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1686 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1692 …}
        -id: 207387
        -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':37 'bearabl':34 'clip':27 'correct':17 'debat':12 'explain':20 'hour':30 'howev':10 'one':6 'ongo':11 'quit':22 're':2 'right':3 'simpson':26 'theori':7,15 'vid':19 'video':32 'well':23 'www.youtube.com':36 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':35"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5483715"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701971365 {#1620
          date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207387
      }
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1721
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1726 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Umm… Thanks for that unnecessarily aggressive seeming and a bit incompehensible addendum, I guess?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 4
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701975001 {#1723
          date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1728 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1730 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1734 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1727 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1733 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1724 …}
        -id: 207642
        -bodyTs: "'addendum':12 'aggress':6 'bit':10 'guess':14 'incompehens':11 'seem':7 'thank':2 'umm':1 'unnecessarili':5"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485206"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975001 {#1722
          date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207642
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1616}
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1718
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1720 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          Sorry, I interpreted it as aggressive. Figuring out tone in text form is hard and all that. Sorry that I wrongly accused you.\n
          \n
          Things I didn’t get:\n
          \n
          > A reminder that the labour theory of value is not a marxist concept.\n
          \n
          Marx hasn’t been explicity brought up yet (at least not in my comment). Only implicitly in the original post. Again: thought you were attacking me and was like “umm… So what?”\n
          \n
          > When people wave their hands around and say “labor theory of value isn’t objectively true!!”, they’re shadowboxing a ghost.\n
          \n
          I thought you meant me, since that was what I was basically saying. 😅\n
          \n
          > Value != price\n
          \n
          Now, that one wasn’t even implicitly mentioned.\n
          \n
          I hope you don’t hold my misunderstanding against me.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 3
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701975943 {#1715
          date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1716 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1739 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1740 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2465 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2463 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2411 …}
        -id: 207711
        -bodyTs: "'accus':22 'aggress':6 'around':79 'attack':66 'basic':106 'brought':47 'comment':55 'concept':41 'didn':26 'even':115 'explic':46 'figur':7 'form':12 'get':28 'ghost':94 'hand':78 'hard':14 'hasn':43 'hold':123 'hope':119 'implicit':57,116 'interpret':3 'isn':86 'labor':82 'labour':33 'least':51 'like':70 'marx':42 'marxist':40 'meant':98 'mention':117 'misunderstand':125 'object':88 'one':112 'origin':60 'peopl':75 'post':61 'price':109 're':91 'remind':30 'say':81,107 'shadowbox':92 'sinc':100 'sorri':1,18 'text':11 'theori':34,83 'thing':24 'thought':63,96 'tone':9 'true':89 'umm':71 'valu':36,85,108 'wasn':113 'wave':76 'wrong':21 'yet':49"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485494"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975943 {#1714
          date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207711
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2458
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2461 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Where?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701976885 {#2422
          date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2456 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2453 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2457 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2455 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2468 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2469 …}
        -id: 207782
        -bodyTs: ""
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485802"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701976885 {#2462
          date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207782
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2370 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Don’t the two correlate?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701977809 {#2471
          date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2377 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2359 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2364 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2380 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2382 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2384 …}
        -id: 207842
        -bodyTs: "'correl':5 'two':4"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486088"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977809 {#2371
          date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207842
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          > Well now i’m confused. If ‘labor theory of value isn’t objectively true’ isn’t making an argument about the price of a commodity not being equal to the labor it embodies, I am not sure what you’re trying to say by it.\n
          \n
          A theory o value doesn’t necessarily say anything about price. As you said: “value != price”.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701977944 {#2379
          date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1909 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1926 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1874 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1908 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1883 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2389 …}
        -id: 207854
        -bodyTs: "'anyth':54 'argument':19 'commod':25 'confus':5 'doesn':50 'embodi':33 'equal':28 'isn':11,15 'labor':7,31 'm':4 'make':17 'necessarili':52 'o':48 'object':13 'price':22,56,61 're':40 'said':59 'say':43,53 'sure':37 'theori':8,47 'tri':41 'true':14 'valu':10,49,60 'well':1"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486136"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373971 {#2381
          date: 2023-12-24 00:26:11.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977944 {#2383
          date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207854
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2030 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          As far as I understand: Price tries to measure value. Therefore: A price needs a value, but value doesn’t need price. They correlate but are not the same.\n
          \n
          Were am I making the mistake? Genuine question.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980069 {#1403
          date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2032 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2024 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2018 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2011 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2021 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2029 …}
        -id: 207987
        -bodyTs: "'correl':24 'doesn':19 'far':2 'genuin':36 'make':33 'measur':9 'mistak':35 'need':14,21 'price':6,13,22 'question':37 'therefor':11 'tri':7 'understand':5 'valu':10,16,18"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487031"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980069 {#2019
          date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207987
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2393 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          There’s not even academical consensus what value actually *is*, AFAIK. Do preasts add value to anything with their labour? If not: Do social counsellors? What if a priest acts as a counsellor? Ask different economists with their theories of value and you’ll get several answers.\n
          \n
          Economic theories aren’t as rigid as theories from the natural sciences or mathematics. They are dependent on the culture in which they are perceived. A non-capitalist society would have different theories or value (or none at all) than we do.\n
          \n
          [This guy can explain it properly](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw), I’m not an economist and kinda regret making that comment.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 6
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701979923 {#2387
          date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@JayDee@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1384 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1383 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1405 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1382 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1404 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1361 …}
        -id: 207981
        -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':99 'academ':5 'act':30 'actual':9 'add':14 'afaik':11 'answer':47 'anyth':17 'aren':50 'ask':34 'capitalist':76 'comment':110 'consensus':6 'counsellor':25,33 'cultur':67 'depend':64 'differ':35,80 'econom':48 'economist':36,104 'even':4 'explain':94 'get':45 'guy':92 'kinda':106 'labour':20 'll':44 'm':101 'make':108 'mathemat':61 'natur':58 'non':75 'non-capitalist':74 'none':85 'perceiv':72 'preast':13 'priest':29 'proper':96 'regret':107 'rigid':53 'scienc':59 'sever':46 'social':24 'societi':77 'theori':39,49,55,81 'valu':8,15,41,83 'would':78 'www.youtube.com':98 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':97"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486914"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373897 {#2392
          date: 2023-12-24 00:24:57.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701979923 {#2394
          date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207981
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2062 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "I wouldn’t have been able to write it this consise, but that’s kind of one thing I wanted to point towards in my original comment."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980622 {#2082
          date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2081 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2098 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2080 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2089 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2095 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2091 …}
        -id: 208044
        -bodyTs: "'abl':6 'comment':27 'consis':11 'kind':15 'one':17 'origin':26 'point':22 'thing':18 'toward':23 'want':20 'wouldn':2 'write':8"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487230"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980622 {#2085
          date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208044
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2035 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          It’s an economic theory and therefore more to be understood as a model on how economics work.\n
          \n
          The natural sciences have a hard core. The theory of gravity depends on how matter interacts in an objective, physical framework. Economic theories basically describe human interaction which are based on psychology and sociology. Therefore they depend on the societal context they are made in.\n
          \n
          If you understand them as models that are tools on how to understand the world, they become more useful in political analysis (I know we are in a meme community here, but everything is politics and so on and so on…).\n
          \n
          I do subscribe to many conclusions the labour theory of value and especially Marx came to. But I want y’all to *remember* that the theory is a mere tool for understanding and not a sacred, holy theory.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980460 {#2020
          date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2031 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2037 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2075 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2079 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2078 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2097 …}
        -id: 208027
        -bodyTs: "'analysi':85 'base':48 'basic':42 'becom':80 'came':119 'communiti':93 'conclus':110 'context':59 'core':25 'depend':30,55 'describ':43 'econom':4,17,40 'especi':117 'everyth':96 'framework':39 'graviti':29 'hard':24 'holi':141 'human':44 'interact':34,45 'know':87 'labour':112 'made':62 'mani':109 'marx':118 'matter':33 'meme':92 'mere':133 'model':14,69 'natur':20 'object':37 'physic':38 'polit':84,98 'psycholog':50 'rememb':127 'sacr':140 'scienc':21 'societ':58 'sociolog':52 'subscrib':107 'theori':5,27,41,113,130,142 'therefor':7,53 'tool':72,134 'understand':66,76,136 'understood':11 'use':82 'valu':115 'want':123 'work':18 'world':78 'y':124"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487165"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980460 {#2013
          date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208027
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2094
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2241 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          > Why the neutral language all of a sudden?\n
          \n
          I was trying to be understood a bit better.\n
          \n
          > Are you trying to say 'all economic theories and models are not objectively true"?\n
          \n
          Not explicitally, but yeah: models aren’t used for “objective truth”. They’re used to *model* (i.e. simplify) reality to make observations and guesses for the future.\n
          \n
          > Why would that be worth saying in response to the OP?\n
          \n
          I feel like a lot of leftists think that understanding economics starts and ends with “capitalists exploit the labouring class”, while not actually engaging with the subject matter. I guess most can’t even explain LTV properly before getting mad at capitalists.\n
          \n
          As I’ve written before: I agree with most conclusions of marxist analysis that I know and I probably don’t even know half of them. But I think that political analysis should use LTV as a tool to understand the world and not the end of socio-economical disgussion (because that would ignore important parts of today’s economy).\n
          \n
          > It really just seems like you disagree with the ‘your stolen labor value’ claim in the OP, and are attributing it to the ‘labor theory of value’\n
          \n
          I don’t. I wanted to remind people as to make political analysis not too easy by taking the mental shortcut of reducing current capitalism on the problems pointed out by Marx rendition of LTV.\n
          \n
          > (as opposed to dismissing it because you disagree with some portion of the theory you’ve neglected to mention)\n
          \n
          I don’t disagree. I also don’t disagree with the atomic model of Niels Bohr when it comes to calculating electron potential. When it comes to observing e.g. electron spin, that particular model will probably fall flat. That doesn’t mean I “disagree” with the model, though.\n
          \n
          > My hunch is that you don’t feel confident enough in your understanding to make any kind of firm claim and are just dancing around making vague gestures toward ‘labor’ and ‘value’ definitions as a way of avoiding it.\n
          \n
          I’m not too confident in my economic knowledge, true. But I *am* quite confident in how models should be used in soft sciences.\n
          \n
          Addendum: I’d like to kindly ask you to give me a little bit of benefit of the doubt. Otherwise, I’ll just disengage due to that accusatory tone I’m getting from you being a bit exhausting.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701985632 {#2090
          date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2140 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2133 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2131 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2138 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2345 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2330 …}
        -id: 208351
        -bodyTs: "'accusatori':392 'actual':92 'addendum':365 'agre':118 'also':259 'analysi':124,143,212 'aren':37 'around':326 'ask':371 'atom':265 'attribut':192 'avoid':339 'benefit':380 'better':17 'bit':16,378,401 'bohr':269 'calcul':274 'capit':224 'capitalist':85,111 'claim':186,321 'class':89 'come':272,279 'conclus':121 'confid':310,345,355 'current':223 'd':367 'danc':325 'definit':334 'disagre':179,242,257,262,297 'disengag':388 'disguss':162 'dismiss':238 'doesn':293 'doubt':383 'due':389 'e.g':282 'easi':215 'econom':24,80,161,348 'economi':172 'electron':275,283 'end':83,157 'engag':93 'enough':311 'even':103,133 'exhaust':402 'explain':104 'explicit':33 'exploit':86 'fall':290 'feel':71,309 'firm':320 'flat':291 'futur':58 'gestur':329 'get':108,396 'give':374 'guess':55,99 'half':135 'hunch':303 'i.e':48 'ignor':166 'import':167 'kind':318,370 'know':127,134 'knowledg':349 'labor':184,196,331 'labour':88 'languag':4 'leftist':76 'like':72,177,368 'littl':377 'll':386 'lot':74 'ltv':105,146,234 'm':342,395 'mad':109 'make':52,210,316,327 'marx':231 'marxist':123 'matter':97 'mean':295 'mental':219 'mention':253 'model':27,36,47,266,287,300,358 'neglect':251 'neutral':3 'niel':268 'object':30,41 'observ':53,281 'op':69,189 'oppos':236 'otherwis':384 'part':168 'particular':286 'peopl':207 'point':228 'polit':142,211 'portion':245 'potenti':276 'probabl':130,289 'problem':227 'proper':106 'quit':354 're':44 'realiti':50 'realli':174 'reduc':222 'remind':206 'rendit':232 'respons':66 'say':22,64 'scienc':364 'seem':176 'shortcut':220 'simplifi':49 'socio':160 'socio-econom':159 'soft':363 'spin':284 'start':81 'stolen':183 'subject':96 'sudden':8 'take':217 'theori':25,197,248 'think':77,140 'though':301 'today':170 'tone':393 'tool':149 'toward':330 'tri':11,20 'true':31,350 'truth':42 'understand':79,151,314 'understood':14 'use':39,45,145,361 'vagu':328 'valu':185,199,333 've':114,250 'want':204 'way':337 'world':153 'worth':63 'would':60,165 'written':115 'yeah':35"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5489133"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703384328 {#2093
          date: 2023-12-24 03:18:48.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701985632 {#2092
          date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208351
      }
    ]
    -id: 20852
    -titleTs: "'enemi':3 'know':1"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1702038246
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemmy.ml/post/8990722"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701951846 {#2506
      date: 2023-12-07 13:24:06.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1611 …}
  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
  +body: """
    I was talking about the theory, not value. Sorry if that didn’t come across.\n
    \n
    Now that I think about it: isn’t value culturally determined in many things? Why are apple products more expensive than other computers with the same specs? Why is a ticket to a Billie Eilish concert more valuable than one to my neighbor’s indie rock band?
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 2
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1701974894 {#1705
    date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
    "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
    "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1598 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1629 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1626 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1618 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1597 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1731 …}
  -id: 207637
  -bodyTs: "'across':15 'appl':32 'band':62 'billi':49 'come':14 'comput':38 'concert':51 'cultur':25 'determin':26 'didn':12 'eilish':50 'expens':35 'indi':60 'isn':22 'mani':28 'neighbor':58 'one':55 'product':33 'rock':61 'sorri':9 'spec':42 'talk':3 'theori':6 'thing':29 'think':19 'ticket':46 'valu':8,24 'valuabl':53"
  +ranking: 0
  +commentCount: 0
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485163"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701974894 {#1711
    date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 207637
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
20 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1616
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2003 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2559 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2581 …}
    +slug: "Know-your-enemy"
    +title: "Know your enemy"
    +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/4e8abd58-e357-4836-88ce-d57b36597f6b.jpeg"
    +body: null
    +type: "image"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: true
    +commentCount: 76
    +favouriteCount: 676
    +score: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +sticky: false
    +lastActive: DateTime @1702111873 {#2346
      date: 2023-12-09 09:51:13.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2580 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2578 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2575 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2609 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2605 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2622 …}
    +children: [
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1604 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
          +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
          +image: null
          +parent: null
          +root: null
          +body: """
            Reminder that while the labour theory of value can be practical to understand certain aspects of society, it is still culturally biased and not “objectively” true.\n
            \n
            What creates value can only be answered in a cultural framework.
            """
          +lang: "en"
          +isAdult: false
          +favouriteCount: 12
          +score: 0
          +lastActive: DateTime @1703499828 {#1580
            date: 2023-12-25 11:23:48.0 +01:00
          }
          +ip: null
          +tags: null
          +mentions: [
            "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          ]
          +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1561 …}
          +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1564 …}
          +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1563 …}
          +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1565 …}
          +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1558 …}
          +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1557 …}
          -id: 206964
          -bodyTs: "'answer':33 'aspect':15 'bias':22 'certain':14 'creat':28 'cultur':21,36 'framework':37 'labour':5 'object':25 'practic':11 'remind':1 'societi':17 'still':20 'theori':6 'true':26 'understand':13 'valu':8,29"
          +ranking: 0
          +commentCount: 0
          +upVotes: 0
          +downVotes: 0
          +visibility: "visible             "
          +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5480766"
          +editedAt: null
          +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701964861 {#1550
            date: 2023-12-07 17:01:01.0 +01:00
          }
          +"title": 206964
        }
        +body: """
          You’re right. It’s *one* theory. There is however ongoing debate on which theory is “correct”.\n
          \n
          This vid explains it quite well and with Simpsons clips so the hour of video is bearable:\n
          \n
          [www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw)
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701971365 {#1621
          date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1596 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1702 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1683 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1680 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1686 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1692 …}
        -id: 207387
        -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':37 'bearabl':34 'clip':27 'correct':17 'debat':12 'explain':20 'hour':30 'howev':10 'one':6 'ongo':11 'quit':22 're':2 'right':3 'simpson':26 'theori':7,15 'vid':19 'video':32 'well':23 'www.youtube.com':36 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':35"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5483715"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701971365 {#1620
          date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207387
      }
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1721
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1726 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Umm… Thanks for that unnecessarily aggressive seeming and a bit incompehensible addendum, I guess?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 4
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701975001 {#1723
          date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1728 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1730 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1734 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1727 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1733 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1724 …}
        -id: 207642
        -bodyTs: "'addendum':12 'aggress':6 'bit':10 'guess':14 'incompehens':11 'seem':7 'thank':2 'umm':1 'unnecessarili':5"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485206"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975001 {#1722
          date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207642
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1616}
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1718
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1720 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          Sorry, I interpreted it as aggressive. Figuring out tone in text form is hard and all that. Sorry that I wrongly accused you.\n
          \n
          Things I didn’t get:\n
          \n
          > A reminder that the labour theory of value is not a marxist concept.\n
          \n
          Marx hasn’t been explicity brought up yet (at least not in my comment). Only implicitly in the original post. Again: thought you were attacking me and was like “umm… So what?”\n
          \n
          > When people wave their hands around and say “labor theory of value isn’t objectively true!!”, they’re shadowboxing a ghost.\n
          \n
          I thought you meant me, since that was what I was basically saying. 😅\n
          \n
          > Value != price\n
          \n
          Now, that one wasn’t even implicitly mentioned.\n
          \n
          I hope you don’t hold my misunderstanding against me.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 3
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701975943 {#1715
          date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1716 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1739 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1740 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2465 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2463 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2411 …}
        -id: 207711
        -bodyTs: "'accus':22 'aggress':6 'around':79 'attack':66 'basic':106 'brought':47 'comment':55 'concept':41 'didn':26 'even':115 'explic':46 'figur':7 'form':12 'get':28 'ghost':94 'hand':78 'hard':14 'hasn':43 'hold':123 'hope':119 'implicit':57,116 'interpret':3 'isn':86 'labor':82 'labour':33 'least':51 'like':70 'marx':42 'marxist':40 'meant':98 'mention':117 'misunderstand':125 'object':88 'one':112 'origin':60 'peopl':75 'post':61 'price':109 're':91 'remind':30 'say':81,107 'shadowbox':92 'sinc':100 'sorri':1,18 'text':11 'theori':34,83 'thing':24 'thought':63,96 'tone':9 'true':89 'umm':71 'valu':36,85,108 'wasn':113 'wave':76 'wrong':21 'yet':49"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485494"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975943 {#1714
          date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207711
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2458
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2461 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Where?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701976885 {#2422
          date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2456 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2453 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2457 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2455 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2468 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2469 …}
        -id: 207782
        -bodyTs: ""
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485802"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701976885 {#2462
          date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207782
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2370 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Don’t the two correlate?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701977809 {#2471
          date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2377 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2359 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2364 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2380 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2382 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2384 …}
        -id: 207842
        -bodyTs: "'correl':5 'two':4"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486088"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977809 {#2371
          date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207842
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          > Well now i’m confused. If ‘labor theory of value isn’t objectively true’ isn’t making an argument about the price of a commodity not being equal to the labor it embodies, I am not sure what you’re trying to say by it.\n
          \n
          A theory o value doesn’t necessarily say anything about price. As you said: “value != price”.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701977944 {#2379
          date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1909 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1926 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1874 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1908 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1883 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2389 …}
        -id: 207854
        -bodyTs: "'anyth':54 'argument':19 'commod':25 'confus':5 'doesn':50 'embodi':33 'equal':28 'isn':11,15 'labor':7,31 'm':4 'make':17 'necessarili':52 'o':48 'object':13 'price':22,56,61 're':40 'said':59 'say':43,53 'sure':37 'theori':8,47 'tri':41 'true':14 'valu':10,49,60 'well':1"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486136"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373971 {#2381
          date: 2023-12-24 00:26:11.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977944 {#2383
          date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207854
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2030 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          As far as I understand: Price tries to measure value. Therefore: A price needs a value, but value doesn’t need price. They correlate but are not the same.\n
          \n
          Were am I making the mistake? Genuine question.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980069 {#1403
          date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2032 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2024 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2018 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2011 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2021 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2029 …}
        -id: 207987
        -bodyTs: "'correl':24 'doesn':19 'far':2 'genuin':36 'make':33 'measur':9 'mistak':35 'need':14,21 'price':6,13,22 'question':37 'therefor':11 'tri':7 'understand':5 'valu':10,16,18"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487031"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980069 {#2019
          date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207987
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2393 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          There’s not even academical consensus what value actually *is*, AFAIK. Do preasts add value to anything with their labour? If not: Do social counsellors? What if a priest acts as a counsellor? Ask different economists with their theories of value and you’ll get several answers.\n
          \n
          Economic theories aren’t as rigid as theories from the natural sciences or mathematics. They are dependent on the culture in which they are perceived. A non-capitalist society would have different theories or value (or none at all) than we do.\n
          \n
          [This guy can explain it properly](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw), I’m not an economist and kinda regret making that comment.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 6
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701979923 {#2387
          date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@JayDee@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1384 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1383 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1405 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1382 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1404 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1361 …}
        -id: 207981
        -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':99 'academ':5 'act':30 'actual':9 'add':14 'afaik':11 'answer':47 'anyth':17 'aren':50 'ask':34 'capitalist':76 'comment':110 'consensus':6 'counsellor':25,33 'cultur':67 'depend':64 'differ':35,80 'econom':48 'economist':36,104 'even':4 'explain':94 'get':45 'guy':92 'kinda':106 'labour':20 'll':44 'm':101 'make':108 'mathemat':61 'natur':58 'non':75 'non-capitalist':74 'none':85 'perceiv':72 'preast':13 'priest':29 'proper':96 'regret':107 'rigid':53 'scienc':59 'sever':46 'social':24 'societi':77 'theori':39,49,55,81 'valu':8,15,41,83 'would':78 'www.youtube.com':98 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':97"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486914"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373897 {#2392
          date: 2023-12-24 00:24:57.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701979923 {#2394
          date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207981
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2062 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "I wouldn’t have been able to write it this consise, but that’s kind of one thing I wanted to point towards in my original comment."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980622 {#2082
          date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2081 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2098 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2080 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2089 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2095 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2091 …}
        -id: 208044
        -bodyTs: "'abl':6 'comment':27 'consis':11 'kind':15 'one':17 'origin':26 'point':22 'thing':18 'toward':23 'want':20 'wouldn':2 'write':8"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487230"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980622 {#2085
          date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208044
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2035 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          It’s an economic theory and therefore more to be understood as a model on how economics work.\n
          \n
          The natural sciences have a hard core. The theory of gravity depends on how matter interacts in an objective, physical framework. Economic theories basically describe human interaction which are based on psychology and sociology. Therefore they depend on the societal context they are made in.\n
          \n
          If you understand them as models that are tools on how to understand the world, they become more useful in political analysis (I know we are in a meme community here, but everything is politics and so on and so on…).\n
          \n
          I do subscribe to many conclusions the labour theory of value and especially Marx came to. But I want y’all to *remember* that the theory is a mere tool for understanding and not a sacred, holy theory.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980460 {#2020
          date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2031 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2037 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2075 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2079 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2078 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2097 …}
        -id: 208027
        -bodyTs: "'analysi':85 'base':48 'basic':42 'becom':80 'came':119 'communiti':93 'conclus':110 'context':59 'core':25 'depend':30,55 'describ':43 'econom':4,17,40 'especi':117 'everyth':96 'framework':39 'graviti':29 'hard':24 'holi':141 'human':44 'interact':34,45 'know':87 'labour':112 'made':62 'mani':109 'marx':118 'matter':33 'meme':92 'mere':133 'model':14,69 'natur':20 'object':37 'physic':38 'polit':84,98 'psycholog':50 'rememb':127 'sacr':140 'scienc':21 'societ':58 'sociolog':52 'subscrib':107 'theori':5,27,41,113,130,142 'therefor':7,53 'tool':72,134 'understand':66,76,136 'understood':11 'use':82 'valu':115 'want':123 'work':18 'world':78 'y':124"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487165"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980460 {#2013
          date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208027
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2094
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2241 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          > Why the neutral language all of a sudden?\n
          \n
          I was trying to be understood a bit better.\n
          \n
          > Are you trying to say 'all economic theories and models are not objectively true"?\n
          \n
          Not explicitally, but yeah: models aren’t used for “objective truth”. They’re used to *model* (i.e. simplify) reality to make observations and guesses for the future.\n
          \n
          > Why would that be worth saying in response to the OP?\n
          \n
          I feel like a lot of leftists think that understanding economics starts and ends with “capitalists exploit the labouring class”, while not actually engaging with the subject matter. I guess most can’t even explain LTV properly before getting mad at capitalists.\n
          \n
          As I’ve written before: I agree with most conclusions of marxist analysis that I know and I probably don’t even know half of them. But I think that political analysis should use LTV as a tool to understand the world and not the end of socio-economical disgussion (because that would ignore important parts of today’s economy).\n
          \n
          > It really just seems like you disagree with the ‘your stolen labor value’ claim in the OP, and are attributing it to the ‘labor theory of value’\n
          \n
          I don’t. I wanted to remind people as to make political analysis not too easy by taking the mental shortcut of reducing current capitalism on the problems pointed out by Marx rendition of LTV.\n
          \n
          > (as opposed to dismissing it because you disagree with some portion of the theory you’ve neglected to mention)\n
          \n
          I don’t disagree. I also don’t disagree with the atomic model of Niels Bohr when it comes to calculating electron potential. When it comes to observing e.g. electron spin, that particular model will probably fall flat. That doesn’t mean I “disagree” with the model, though.\n
          \n
          > My hunch is that you don’t feel confident enough in your understanding to make any kind of firm claim and are just dancing around making vague gestures toward ‘labor’ and ‘value’ definitions as a way of avoiding it.\n
          \n
          I’m not too confident in my economic knowledge, true. But I *am* quite confident in how models should be used in soft sciences.\n
          \n
          Addendum: I’d like to kindly ask you to give me a little bit of benefit of the doubt. Otherwise, I’ll just disengage due to that accusatory tone I’m getting from you being a bit exhausting.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701985632 {#2090
          date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2140 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2133 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2131 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2138 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2345 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2330 …}
        -id: 208351
        -bodyTs: "'accusatori':392 'actual':92 'addendum':365 'agre':118 'also':259 'analysi':124,143,212 'aren':37 'around':326 'ask':371 'atom':265 'attribut':192 'avoid':339 'benefit':380 'better':17 'bit':16,378,401 'bohr':269 'calcul':274 'capit':224 'capitalist':85,111 'claim':186,321 'class':89 'come':272,279 'conclus':121 'confid':310,345,355 'current':223 'd':367 'danc':325 'definit':334 'disagre':179,242,257,262,297 'disengag':388 'disguss':162 'dismiss':238 'doesn':293 'doubt':383 'due':389 'e.g':282 'easi':215 'econom':24,80,161,348 'economi':172 'electron':275,283 'end':83,157 'engag':93 'enough':311 'even':103,133 'exhaust':402 'explain':104 'explicit':33 'exploit':86 'fall':290 'feel':71,309 'firm':320 'flat':291 'futur':58 'gestur':329 'get':108,396 'give':374 'guess':55,99 'half':135 'hunch':303 'i.e':48 'ignor':166 'import':167 'kind':318,370 'know':127,134 'knowledg':349 'labor':184,196,331 'labour':88 'languag':4 'leftist':76 'like':72,177,368 'littl':377 'll':386 'lot':74 'ltv':105,146,234 'm':342,395 'mad':109 'make':52,210,316,327 'marx':231 'marxist':123 'matter':97 'mean':295 'mental':219 'mention':253 'model':27,36,47,266,287,300,358 'neglect':251 'neutral':3 'niel':268 'object':30,41 'observ':53,281 'op':69,189 'oppos':236 'otherwis':384 'part':168 'particular':286 'peopl':207 'point':228 'polit':142,211 'portion':245 'potenti':276 'probabl':130,289 'problem':227 'proper':106 'quit':354 're':44 'realiti':50 'realli':174 'reduc':222 'remind':206 'rendit':232 'respons':66 'say':22,64 'scienc':364 'seem':176 'shortcut':220 'simplifi':49 'socio':160 'socio-econom':159 'soft':363 'spin':284 'start':81 'stolen':183 'subject':96 'sudden':8 'take':217 'theori':25,197,248 'think':77,140 'though':301 'today':170 'tone':393 'tool':149 'toward':330 'tri':11,20 'true':31,350 'truth':42 'understand':79,151,314 'understood':14 'use':39,45,145,361 'vagu':328 'valu':185,199,333 've':114,250 'want':204 'way':337 'world':153 'worth':63 'would':60,165 'written':115 'yeah':35"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5489133"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703384328 {#2093
          date: 2023-12-24 03:18:48.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701985632 {#2092
          date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208351
      }
    ]
    -id: 20852
    -titleTs: "'enemi':3 'know':1"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1702038246
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemmy.ml/post/8990722"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701951846 {#2506
      date: 2023-12-07 13:24:06.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1611 …}
  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
  +body: """
    I was talking about the theory, not value. Sorry if that didn’t come across.\n
    \n
    Now that I think about it: isn’t value culturally determined in many things? Why are apple products more expensive than other computers with the same specs? Why is a ticket to a Billie Eilish concert more valuable than one to my neighbor’s indie rock band?
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 2
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1701974894 {#1705
    date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
    "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
    "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1598 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1629 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1626 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1618 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1597 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1731 …}
  -id: 207637
  -bodyTs: "'across':15 'appl':32 'band':62 'billi':49 'come':14 'comput':38 'concert':51 'cultur':25 'determin':26 'didn':12 'eilish':50 'expens':35 'indi':60 'isn':22 'mani':28 'neighbor':58 'one':55 'product':33 'rock':61 'sorri':9 'spec':42 'talk':3 'theori':6 'thing':29 'think':19 'ticket':46 'valu':8,24 'valuabl':53"
  +ranking: 0
  +commentCount: 0
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485163"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701974894 {#1711
    date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 207637
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
21 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
22 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1718
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2003 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2559 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2581 …}
    +slug: "Know-your-enemy"
    +title: "Know your enemy"
    +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/4e8abd58-e357-4836-88ce-d57b36597f6b.jpeg"
    +body: null
    +type: "image"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: true
    +commentCount: 76
    +favouriteCount: 676
    +score: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +sticky: false
    +lastActive: DateTime @1702111873 {#2346
      date: 2023-12-09 09:51:13.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2580 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2578 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2575 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2609 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2605 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2622 …}
    +children: [
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1604 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
          +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
          +image: null
          +parent: null
          +root: null
          +body: """
            Reminder that while the labour theory of value can be practical to understand certain aspects of society, it is still culturally biased and not “objectively” true.\n
            \n
            What creates value can only be answered in a cultural framework.
            """
          +lang: "en"
          +isAdult: false
          +favouriteCount: 12
          +score: 0
          +lastActive: DateTime @1703499828 {#1580
            date: 2023-12-25 11:23:48.0 +01:00
          }
          +ip: null
          +tags: null
          +mentions: [
            "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          ]
          +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1561 …}
          +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1564 …}
          +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1563 …}
          +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1565 …}
          +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1558 …}
          +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1557 …}
          -id: 206964
          -bodyTs: "'answer':33 'aspect':15 'bias':22 'certain':14 'creat':28 'cultur':21,36 'framework':37 'labour':5 'object':25 'practic':11 'remind':1 'societi':17 'still':20 'theori':6 'true':26 'understand':13 'valu':8,29"
          +ranking: 0
          +commentCount: 0
          +upVotes: 0
          +downVotes: 0
          +visibility: "visible             "
          +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5480766"
          +editedAt: null
          +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701964861 {#1550
            date: 2023-12-07 17:01:01.0 +01:00
          }
          +"title": 206964
        }
        +body: """
          You’re right. It’s *one* theory. There is however ongoing debate on which theory is “correct”.\n
          \n
          This vid explains it quite well and with Simpsons clips so the hour of video is bearable:\n
          \n
          [www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw)
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701971365 {#1621
          date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1596 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1702 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1683 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1680 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1686 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1692 …}
        -id: 207387
        -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':37 'bearabl':34 'clip':27 'correct':17 'debat':12 'explain':20 'hour':30 'howev':10 'one':6 'ongo':11 'quit':22 're':2 'right':3 'simpson':26 'theori':7,15 'vid':19 'video':32 'well':23 'www.youtube.com':36 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':35"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5483715"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701971365 {#1620
          date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207387
      }
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1721
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1726 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Umm… Thanks for that unnecessarily aggressive seeming and a bit incompehensible addendum, I guess?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 4
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701975001 {#1723
          date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1728 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1730 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1734 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1727 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1733 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1724 …}
        -id: 207642
        -bodyTs: "'addendum':12 'aggress':6 'bit':10 'guess':14 'incompehens':11 'seem':7 'thank':2 'umm':1 'unnecessarili':5"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485206"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975001 {#1722
          date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207642
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1616
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1611 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          I was talking about the theory, not value. Sorry if that didn’t come across.\n
          \n
          Now that I think about it: isn’t value culturally determined in many things? Why are apple products more expensive than other computers with the same specs? Why is a ticket to a Billie Eilish concert more valuable than one to my neighbor’s indie rock band?
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701974894 {#1705
          date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1598 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1629 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1626 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1618 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1597 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1731 …}
        -id: 207637
        -bodyTs: "'across':15 'appl':32 'band':62 'billi':49 'come':14 'comput':38 'concert':51 'cultur':25 'determin':26 'didn':12 'eilish':50 'expens':35 'indi':60 'isn':22 'mani':28 'neighbor':58 'one':55 'product':33 'rock':61 'sorri':9 'spec':42 'talk':3 'theori':6 'thing':29 'think':19 'ticket':46 'valu':8,24 'valuabl':53"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485163"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701974894 {#1711
          date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207637
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1718}
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2458
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2461 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Where?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701976885 {#2422
          date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2456 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2453 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2457 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2455 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2468 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2469 …}
        -id: 207782
        -bodyTs: ""
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485802"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701976885 {#2462
          date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207782
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2370 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Don’t the two correlate?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701977809 {#2471
          date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2377 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2359 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2364 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2380 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2382 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2384 …}
        -id: 207842
        -bodyTs: "'correl':5 'two':4"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486088"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977809 {#2371
          date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207842
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          > Well now i’m confused. If ‘labor theory of value isn’t objectively true’ isn’t making an argument about the price of a commodity not being equal to the labor it embodies, I am not sure what you’re trying to say by it.\n
          \n
          A theory o value doesn’t necessarily say anything about price. As you said: “value != price”.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701977944 {#2379
          date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1909 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1926 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1874 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1908 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1883 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2389 …}
        -id: 207854
        -bodyTs: "'anyth':54 'argument':19 'commod':25 'confus':5 'doesn':50 'embodi':33 'equal':28 'isn':11,15 'labor':7,31 'm':4 'make':17 'necessarili':52 'o':48 'object':13 'price':22,56,61 're':40 'said':59 'say':43,53 'sure':37 'theori':8,47 'tri':41 'true':14 'valu':10,49,60 'well':1"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486136"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373971 {#2381
          date: 2023-12-24 00:26:11.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977944 {#2383
          date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207854
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2030 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          As far as I understand: Price tries to measure value. Therefore: A price needs a value, but value doesn’t need price. They correlate but are not the same.\n
          \n
          Were am I making the mistake? Genuine question.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980069 {#1403
          date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2032 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2024 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2018 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2011 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2021 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2029 …}
        -id: 207987
        -bodyTs: "'correl':24 'doesn':19 'far':2 'genuin':36 'make':33 'measur':9 'mistak':35 'need':14,21 'price':6,13,22 'question':37 'therefor':11 'tri':7 'understand':5 'valu':10,16,18"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487031"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980069 {#2019
          date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207987
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2393 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          There’s not even academical consensus what value actually *is*, AFAIK. Do preasts add value to anything with their labour? If not: Do social counsellors? What if a priest acts as a counsellor? Ask different economists with their theories of value and you’ll get several answers.\n
          \n
          Economic theories aren’t as rigid as theories from the natural sciences or mathematics. They are dependent on the culture in which they are perceived. A non-capitalist society would have different theories or value (or none at all) than we do.\n
          \n
          [This guy can explain it properly](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw), I’m not an economist and kinda regret making that comment.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 6
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701979923 {#2387
          date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@JayDee@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1384 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1383 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1405 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1382 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1404 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1361 …}
        -id: 207981
        -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':99 'academ':5 'act':30 'actual':9 'add':14 'afaik':11 'answer':47 'anyth':17 'aren':50 'ask':34 'capitalist':76 'comment':110 'consensus':6 'counsellor':25,33 'cultur':67 'depend':64 'differ':35,80 'econom':48 'economist':36,104 'even':4 'explain':94 'get':45 'guy':92 'kinda':106 'labour':20 'll':44 'm':101 'make':108 'mathemat':61 'natur':58 'non':75 'non-capitalist':74 'none':85 'perceiv':72 'preast':13 'priest':29 'proper':96 'regret':107 'rigid':53 'scienc':59 'sever':46 'social':24 'societi':77 'theori':39,49,55,81 'valu':8,15,41,83 'would':78 'www.youtube.com':98 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':97"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486914"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373897 {#2392
          date: 2023-12-24 00:24:57.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701979923 {#2394
          date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207981
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2062 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "I wouldn’t have been able to write it this consise, but that’s kind of one thing I wanted to point towards in my original comment."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980622 {#2082
          date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2081 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2098 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2080 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2089 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2095 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2091 …}
        -id: 208044
        -bodyTs: "'abl':6 'comment':27 'consis':11 'kind':15 'one':17 'origin':26 'point':22 'thing':18 'toward':23 'want':20 'wouldn':2 'write':8"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487230"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980622 {#2085
          date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208044
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2035 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          It’s an economic theory and therefore more to be understood as a model on how economics work.\n
          \n
          The natural sciences have a hard core. The theory of gravity depends on how matter interacts in an objective, physical framework. Economic theories basically describe human interaction which are based on psychology and sociology. Therefore they depend on the societal context they are made in.\n
          \n
          If you understand them as models that are tools on how to understand the world, they become more useful in political analysis (I know we are in a meme community here, but everything is politics and so on and so on…).\n
          \n
          I do subscribe to many conclusions the labour theory of value and especially Marx came to. But I want y’all to *remember* that the theory is a mere tool for understanding and not a sacred, holy theory.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980460 {#2020
          date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2031 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2037 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2075 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2079 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2078 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2097 …}
        -id: 208027
        -bodyTs: "'analysi':85 'base':48 'basic':42 'becom':80 'came':119 'communiti':93 'conclus':110 'context':59 'core':25 'depend':30,55 'describ':43 'econom':4,17,40 'especi':117 'everyth':96 'framework':39 'graviti':29 'hard':24 'holi':141 'human':44 'interact':34,45 'know':87 'labour':112 'made':62 'mani':109 'marx':118 'matter':33 'meme':92 'mere':133 'model':14,69 'natur':20 'object':37 'physic':38 'polit':84,98 'psycholog':50 'rememb':127 'sacr':140 'scienc':21 'societ':58 'sociolog':52 'subscrib':107 'theori':5,27,41,113,130,142 'therefor':7,53 'tool':72,134 'understand':66,76,136 'understood':11 'use':82 'valu':115 'want':123 'work':18 'world':78 'y':124"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487165"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980460 {#2013
          date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208027
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2094
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2241 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          > Why the neutral language all of a sudden?\n
          \n
          I was trying to be understood a bit better.\n
          \n
          > Are you trying to say 'all economic theories and models are not objectively true"?\n
          \n
          Not explicitally, but yeah: models aren’t used for “objective truth”. They’re used to *model* (i.e. simplify) reality to make observations and guesses for the future.\n
          \n
          > Why would that be worth saying in response to the OP?\n
          \n
          I feel like a lot of leftists think that understanding economics starts and ends with “capitalists exploit the labouring class”, while not actually engaging with the subject matter. I guess most can’t even explain LTV properly before getting mad at capitalists.\n
          \n
          As I’ve written before: I agree with most conclusions of marxist analysis that I know and I probably don’t even know half of them. But I think that political analysis should use LTV as a tool to understand the world and not the end of socio-economical disgussion (because that would ignore important parts of today’s economy).\n
          \n
          > It really just seems like you disagree with the ‘your stolen labor value’ claim in the OP, and are attributing it to the ‘labor theory of value’\n
          \n
          I don’t. I wanted to remind people as to make political analysis not too easy by taking the mental shortcut of reducing current capitalism on the problems pointed out by Marx rendition of LTV.\n
          \n
          > (as opposed to dismissing it because you disagree with some portion of the theory you’ve neglected to mention)\n
          \n
          I don’t disagree. I also don’t disagree with the atomic model of Niels Bohr when it comes to calculating electron potential. When it comes to observing e.g. electron spin, that particular model will probably fall flat. That doesn’t mean I “disagree” with the model, though.\n
          \n
          > My hunch is that you don’t feel confident enough in your understanding to make any kind of firm claim and are just dancing around making vague gestures toward ‘labor’ and ‘value’ definitions as a way of avoiding it.\n
          \n
          I’m not too confident in my economic knowledge, true. But I *am* quite confident in how models should be used in soft sciences.\n
          \n
          Addendum: I’d like to kindly ask you to give me a little bit of benefit of the doubt. Otherwise, I’ll just disengage due to that accusatory tone I’m getting from you being a bit exhausting.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701985632 {#2090
          date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2140 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2133 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2131 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2138 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2345 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2330 …}
        -id: 208351
        -bodyTs: "'accusatori':392 'actual':92 'addendum':365 'agre':118 'also':259 'analysi':124,143,212 'aren':37 'around':326 'ask':371 'atom':265 'attribut':192 'avoid':339 'benefit':380 'better':17 'bit':16,378,401 'bohr':269 'calcul':274 'capit':224 'capitalist':85,111 'claim':186,321 'class':89 'come':272,279 'conclus':121 'confid':310,345,355 'current':223 'd':367 'danc':325 'definit':334 'disagre':179,242,257,262,297 'disengag':388 'disguss':162 'dismiss':238 'doesn':293 'doubt':383 'due':389 'e.g':282 'easi':215 'econom':24,80,161,348 'economi':172 'electron':275,283 'end':83,157 'engag':93 'enough':311 'even':103,133 'exhaust':402 'explain':104 'explicit':33 'exploit':86 'fall':290 'feel':71,309 'firm':320 'flat':291 'futur':58 'gestur':329 'get':108,396 'give':374 'guess':55,99 'half':135 'hunch':303 'i.e':48 'ignor':166 'import':167 'kind':318,370 'know':127,134 'knowledg':349 'labor':184,196,331 'labour':88 'languag':4 'leftist':76 'like':72,177,368 'littl':377 'll':386 'lot':74 'ltv':105,146,234 'm':342,395 'mad':109 'make':52,210,316,327 'marx':231 'marxist':123 'matter':97 'mean':295 'mental':219 'mention':253 'model':27,36,47,266,287,300,358 'neglect':251 'neutral':3 'niel':268 'object':30,41 'observ':53,281 'op':69,189 'oppos':236 'otherwis':384 'part':168 'particular':286 'peopl':207 'point':228 'polit':142,211 'portion':245 'potenti':276 'probabl':130,289 'problem':227 'proper':106 'quit':354 're':44 'realiti':50 'realli':174 'reduc':222 'remind':206 'rendit':232 'respons':66 'say':22,64 'scienc':364 'seem':176 'shortcut':220 'simplifi':49 'socio':160 'socio-econom':159 'soft':363 'spin':284 'start':81 'stolen':183 'subject':96 'sudden':8 'take':217 'theori':25,197,248 'think':77,140 'though':301 'today':170 'tone':393 'tool':149 'toward':330 'tri':11,20 'true':31,350 'truth':42 'understand':79,151,314 'understood':14 'use':39,45,145,361 'vagu':328 'valu':185,199,333 've':114,250 'want':204 'way':337 'world':153 'worth':63 'would':60,165 'written':115 'yeah':35"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5489133"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703384328 {#2093
          date: 2023-12-24 03:18:48.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701985632 {#2092
          date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208351
      }
    ]
    -id: 20852
    -titleTs: "'enemi':3 'know':1"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1702038246
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemmy.ml/post/8990722"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701951846 {#2506
      date: 2023-12-07 13:24:06.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1720 …}
  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
  +body: """
    Sorry, I interpreted it as aggressive. Figuring out tone in text form is hard and all that. Sorry that I wrongly accused you.\n
    \n
    Things I didn’t get:\n
    \n
    > A reminder that the labour theory of value is not a marxist concept.\n
    \n
    Marx hasn’t been explicity brought up yet (at least not in my comment). Only implicitly in the original post. Again: thought you were attacking me and was like “umm… So what?”\n
    \n
    > When people wave their hands around and say “labor theory of value isn’t objectively true!!”, they’re shadowboxing a ghost.\n
    \n
    I thought you meant me, since that was what I was basically saying. 😅\n
    \n
    > Value != price\n
    \n
    Now, that one wasn’t even implicitly mentioned.\n
    \n
    I hope you don’t hold my misunderstanding against me.
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 3
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1701975943 {#1715
    date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
    "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
    "@archomrade@midwest.social"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1716 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1739 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1740 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2465 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2463 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2411 …}
  -id: 207711
  -bodyTs: "'accus':22 'aggress':6 'around':79 'attack':66 'basic':106 'brought':47 'comment':55 'concept':41 'didn':26 'even':115 'explic':46 'figur':7 'form':12 'get':28 'ghost':94 'hand':78 'hard':14 'hasn':43 'hold':123 'hope':119 'implicit':57,116 'interpret':3 'isn':86 'labor':82 'labour':33 'least':51 'like':70 'marx':42 'marxist':40 'meant':98 'mention':117 'misunderstand':125 'object':88 'one':112 'origin':60 'peopl':75 'post':61 'price':109 're':91 'remind':30 'say':81,107 'shadowbox':92 'sinc':100 'sorri':1,18 'text':11 'theori':34,83 'thing':24 'thought':63,96 'tone':9 'true':89 'umm':71 'valu':36,85,108 'wasn':113 'wave':76 'wrong':21 'yet':49"
  +ranking: 0
  +commentCount: 0
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485494"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975943 {#1714
    date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 207711
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
23 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1718
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2003 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2559 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2581 …}
    +slug: "Know-your-enemy"
    +title: "Know your enemy"
    +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/4e8abd58-e357-4836-88ce-d57b36597f6b.jpeg"
    +body: null
    +type: "image"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: true
    +commentCount: 76
    +favouriteCount: 676
    +score: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +sticky: false
    +lastActive: DateTime @1702111873 {#2346
      date: 2023-12-09 09:51:13.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2580 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2578 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2575 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2609 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2605 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2622 …}
    +children: [
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1604 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
          +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
          +image: null
          +parent: null
          +root: null
          +body: """
            Reminder that while the labour theory of value can be practical to understand certain aspects of society, it is still culturally biased and not “objectively” true.\n
            \n
            What creates value can only be answered in a cultural framework.
            """
          +lang: "en"
          +isAdult: false
          +favouriteCount: 12
          +score: 0
          +lastActive: DateTime @1703499828 {#1580
            date: 2023-12-25 11:23:48.0 +01:00
          }
          +ip: null
          +tags: null
          +mentions: [
            "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          ]
          +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1561 …}
          +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1564 …}
          +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1563 …}
          +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1565 …}
          +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1558 …}
          +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1557 …}
          -id: 206964
          -bodyTs: "'answer':33 'aspect':15 'bias':22 'certain':14 'creat':28 'cultur':21,36 'framework':37 'labour':5 'object':25 'practic':11 'remind':1 'societi':17 'still':20 'theori':6 'true':26 'understand':13 'valu':8,29"
          +ranking: 0
          +commentCount: 0
          +upVotes: 0
          +downVotes: 0
          +visibility: "visible             "
          +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5480766"
          +editedAt: null
          +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701964861 {#1550
            date: 2023-12-07 17:01:01.0 +01:00
          }
          +"title": 206964
        }
        +body: """
          You’re right. It’s *one* theory. There is however ongoing debate on which theory is “correct”.\n
          \n
          This vid explains it quite well and with Simpsons clips so the hour of video is bearable:\n
          \n
          [www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw)
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701971365 {#1621
          date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1596 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1702 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1683 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1680 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1686 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1692 …}
        -id: 207387
        -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':37 'bearabl':34 'clip':27 'correct':17 'debat':12 'explain':20 'hour':30 'howev':10 'one':6 'ongo':11 'quit':22 're':2 'right':3 'simpson':26 'theori':7,15 'vid':19 'video':32 'well':23 'www.youtube.com':36 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':35"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5483715"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701971365 {#1620
          date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207387
      }
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1721
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1726 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Umm… Thanks for that unnecessarily aggressive seeming and a bit incompehensible addendum, I guess?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 4
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701975001 {#1723
          date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1728 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1730 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1734 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1727 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1733 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1724 …}
        -id: 207642
        -bodyTs: "'addendum':12 'aggress':6 'bit':10 'guess':14 'incompehens':11 'seem':7 'thank':2 'umm':1 'unnecessarili':5"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485206"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975001 {#1722
          date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207642
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1616
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1611 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          I was talking about the theory, not value. Sorry if that didn’t come across.\n
          \n
          Now that I think about it: isn’t value culturally determined in many things? Why are apple products more expensive than other computers with the same specs? Why is a ticket to a Billie Eilish concert more valuable than one to my neighbor’s indie rock band?
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701974894 {#1705
          date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1598 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1629 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1626 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1618 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1597 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1731 …}
        -id: 207637
        -bodyTs: "'across':15 'appl':32 'band':62 'billi':49 'come':14 'comput':38 'concert':51 'cultur':25 'determin':26 'didn':12 'eilish':50 'expens':35 'indi':60 'isn':22 'mani':28 'neighbor':58 'one':55 'product':33 'rock':61 'sorri':9 'spec':42 'talk':3 'theori':6 'thing':29 'think':19 'ticket':46 'valu':8,24 'valuabl':53"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485163"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701974894 {#1711
          date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207637
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1718}
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2458
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2461 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Where?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701976885 {#2422
          date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2456 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2453 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2457 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2455 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2468 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2469 …}
        -id: 207782
        -bodyTs: ""
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485802"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701976885 {#2462
          date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207782
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2370 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Don’t the two correlate?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701977809 {#2471
          date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2377 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2359 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2364 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2380 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2382 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2384 …}
        -id: 207842
        -bodyTs: "'correl':5 'two':4"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486088"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977809 {#2371
          date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207842
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          > Well now i’m confused. If ‘labor theory of value isn’t objectively true’ isn’t making an argument about the price of a commodity not being equal to the labor it embodies, I am not sure what you’re trying to say by it.\n
          \n
          A theory o value doesn’t necessarily say anything about price. As you said: “value != price”.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701977944 {#2379
          date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1909 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1926 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1874 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1908 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1883 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2389 …}
        -id: 207854
        -bodyTs: "'anyth':54 'argument':19 'commod':25 'confus':5 'doesn':50 'embodi':33 'equal':28 'isn':11,15 'labor':7,31 'm':4 'make':17 'necessarili':52 'o':48 'object':13 'price':22,56,61 're':40 'said':59 'say':43,53 'sure':37 'theori':8,47 'tri':41 'true':14 'valu':10,49,60 'well':1"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486136"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373971 {#2381
          date: 2023-12-24 00:26:11.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977944 {#2383
          date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207854
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2030 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          As far as I understand: Price tries to measure value. Therefore: A price needs a value, but value doesn’t need price. They correlate but are not the same.\n
          \n
          Were am I making the mistake? Genuine question.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980069 {#1403
          date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2032 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2024 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2018 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2011 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2021 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2029 …}
        -id: 207987
        -bodyTs: "'correl':24 'doesn':19 'far':2 'genuin':36 'make':33 'measur':9 'mistak':35 'need':14,21 'price':6,13,22 'question':37 'therefor':11 'tri':7 'understand':5 'valu':10,16,18"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487031"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980069 {#2019
          date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207987
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2393 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          There’s not even academical consensus what value actually *is*, AFAIK. Do preasts add value to anything with their labour? If not: Do social counsellors? What if a priest acts as a counsellor? Ask different economists with their theories of value and you’ll get several answers.\n
          \n
          Economic theories aren’t as rigid as theories from the natural sciences or mathematics. They are dependent on the culture in which they are perceived. A non-capitalist society would have different theories or value (or none at all) than we do.\n
          \n
          [This guy can explain it properly](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw), I’m not an economist and kinda regret making that comment.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 6
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701979923 {#2387
          date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@JayDee@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1384 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1383 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1405 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1382 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1404 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1361 …}
        -id: 207981
        -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':99 'academ':5 'act':30 'actual':9 'add':14 'afaik':11 'answer':47 'anyth':17 'aren':50 'ask':34 'capitalist':76 'comment':110 'consensus':6 'counsellor':25,33 'cultur':67 'depend':64 'differ':35,80 'econom':48 'economist':36,104 'even':4 'explain':94 'get':45 'guy':92 'kinda':106 'labour':20 'll':44 'm':101 'make':108 'mathemat':61 'natur':58 'non':75 'non-capitalist':74 'none':85 'perceiv':72 'preast':13 'priest':29 'proper':96 'regret':107 'rigid':53 'scienc':59 'sever':46 'social':24 'societi':77 'theori':39,49,55,81 'valu':8,15,41,83 'would':78 'www.youtube.com':98 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':97"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486914"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373897 {#2392
          date: 2023-12-24 00:24:57.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701979923 {#2394
          date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207981
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2062 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "I wouldn’t have been able to write it this consise, but that’s kind of one thing I wanted to point towards in my original comment."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980622 {#2082
          date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2081 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2098 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2080 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2089 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2095 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2091 …}
        -id: 208044
        -bodyTs: "'abl':6 'comment':27 'consis':11 'kind':15 'one':17 'origin':26 'point':22 'thing':18 'toward':23 'want':20 'wouldn':2 'write':8"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487230"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980622 {#2085
          date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208044
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2035 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          It’s an economic theory and therefore more to be understood as a model on how economics work.\n
          \n
          The natural sciences have a hard core. The theory of gravity depends on how matter interacts in an objective, physical framework. Economic theories basically describe human interaction which are based on psychology and sociology. Therefore they depend on the societal context they are made in.\n
          \n
          If you understand them as models that are tools on how to understand the world, they become more useful in political analysis (I know we are in a meme community here, but everything is politics and so on and so on…).\n
          \n
          I do subscribe to many conclusions the labour theory of value and especially Marx came to. But I want y’all to *remember* that the theory is a mere tool for understanding and not a sacred, holy theory.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980460 {#2020
          date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2031 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2037 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2075 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2079 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2078 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2097 …}
        -id: 208027
        -bodyTs: "'analysi':85 'base':48 'basic':42 'becom':80 'came':119 'communiti':93 'conclus':110 'context':59 'core':25 'depend':30,55 'describ':43 'econom':4,17,40 'especi':117 'everyth':96 'framework':39 'graviti':29 'hard':24 'holi':141 'human':44 'interact':34,45 'know':87 'labour':112 'made':62 'mani':109 'marx':118 'matter':33 'meme':92 'mere':133 'model':14,69 'natur':20 'object':37 'physic':38 'polit':84,98 'psycholog':50 'rememb':127 'sacr':140 'scienc':21 'societ':58 'sociolog':52 'subscrib':107 'theori':5,27,41,113,130,142 'therefor':7,53 'tool':72,134 'understand':66,76,136 'understood':11 'use':82 'valu':115 'want':123 'work':18 'world':78 'y':124"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487165"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980460 {#2013
          date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208027
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2094
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2241 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          > Why the neutral language all of a sudden?\n
          \n
          I was trying to be understood a bit better.\n
          \n
          > Are you trying to say 'all economic theories and models are not objectively true"?\n
          \n
          Not explicitally, but yeah: models aren’t used for “objective truth”. They’re used to *model* (i.e. simplify) reality to make observations and guesses for the future.\n
          \n
          > Why would that be worth saying in response to the OP?\n
          \n
          I feel like a lot of leftists think that understanding economics starts and ends with “capitalists exploit the labouring class”, while not actually engaging with the subject matter. I guess most can’t even explain LTV properly before getting mad at capitalists.\n
          \n
          As I’ve written before: I agree with most conclusions of marxist analysis that I know and I probably don’t even know half of them. But I think that political analysis should use LTV as a tool to understand the world and not the end of socio-economical disgussion (because that would ignore important parts of today’s economy).\n
          \n
          > It really just seems like you disagree with the ‘your stolen labor value’ claim in the OP, and are attributing it to the ‘labor theory of value’\n
          \n
          I don’t. I wanted to remind people as to make political analysis not too easy by taking the mental shortcut of reducing current capitalism on the problems pointed out by Marx rendition of LTV.\n
          \n
          > (as opposed to dismissing it because you disagree with some portion of the theory you’ve neglected to mention)\n
          \n
          I don’t disagree. I also don’t disagree with the atomic model of Niels Bohr when it comes to calculating electron potential. When it comes to observing e.g. electron spin, that particular model will probably fall flat. That doesn’t mean I “disagree” with the model, though.\n
          \n
          > My hunch is that you don’t feel confident enough in your understanding to make any kind of firm claim and are just dancing around making vague gestures toward ‘labor’ and ‘value’ definitions as a way of avoiding it.\n
          \n
          I’m not too confident in my economic knowledge, true. But I *am* quite confident in how models should be used in soft sciences.\n
          \n
          Addendum: I’d like to kindly ask you to give me a little bit of benefit of the doubt. Otherwise, I’ll just disengage due to that accusatory tone I’m getting from you being a bit exhausting.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701985632 {#2090
          date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2140 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2133 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2131 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2138 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2345 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2330 …}
        -id: 208351
        -bodyTs: "'accusatori':392 'actual':92 'addendum':365 'agre':118 'also':259 'analysi':124,143,212 'aren':37 'around':326 'ask':371 'atom':265 'attribut':192 'avoid':339 'benefit':380 'better':17 'bit':16,378,401 'bohr':269 'calcul':274 'capit':224 'capitalist':85,111 'claim':186,321 'class':89 'come':272,279 'conclus':121 'confid':310,345,355 'current':223 'd':367 'danc':325 'definit':334 'disagre':179,242,257,262,297 'disengag':388 'disguss':162 'dismiss':238 'doesn':293 'doubt':383 'due':389 'e.g':282 'easi':215 'econom':24,80,161,348 'economi':172 'electron':275,283 'end':83,157 'engag':93 'enough':311 'even':103,133 'exhaust':402 'explain':104 'explicit':33 'exploit':86 'fall':290 'feel':71,309 'firm':320 'flat':291 'futur':58 'gestur':329 'get':108,396 'give':374 'guess':55,99 'half':135 'hunch':303 'i.e':48 'ignor':166 'import':167 'kind':318,370 'know':127,134 'knowledg':349 'labor':184,196,331 'labour':88 'languag':4 'leftist':76 'like':72,177,368 'littl':377 'll':386 'lot':74 'ltv':105,146,234 'm':342,395 'mad':109 'make':52,210,316,327 'marx':231 'marxist':123 'matter':97 'mean':295 'mental':219 'mention':253 'model':27,36,47,266,287,300,358 'neglect':251 'neutral':3 'niel':268 'object':30,41 'observ':53,281 'op':69,189 'oppos':236 'otherwis':384 'part':168 'particular':286 'peopl':207 'point':228 'polit':142,211 'portion':245 'potenti':276 'probabl':130,289 'problem':227 'proper':106 'quit':354 're':44 'realiti':50 'realli':174 'reduc':222 'remind':206 'rendit':232 'respons':66 'say':22,64 'scienc':364 'seem':176 'shortcut':220 'simplifi':49 'socio':160 'socio-econom':159 'soft':363 'spin':284 'start':81 'stolen':183 'subject':96 'sudden':8 'take':217 'theori':25,197,248 'think':77,140 'though':301 'today':170 'tone':393 'tool':149 'toward':330 'tri':11,20 'true':31,350 'truth':42 'understand':79,151,314 'understood':14 'use':39,45,145,361 'vagu':328 'valu':185,199,333 've':114,250 'want':204 'way':337 'world':153 'worth':63 'would':60,165 'written':115 'yeah':35"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5489133"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703384328 {#2093
          date: 2023-12-24 03:18:48.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701985632 {#2092
          date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208351
      }
    ]
    -id: 20852
    -titleTs: "'enemi':3 'know':1"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1702038246
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemmy.ml/post/8990722"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701951846 {#2506
      date: 2023-12-07 13:24:06.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1720 …}
  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
  +body: """
    Sorry, I interpreted it as aggressive. Figuring out tone in text form is hard and all that. Sorry that I wrongly accused you.\n
    \n
    Things I didn’t get:\n
    \n
    > A reminder that the labour theory of value is not a marxist concept.\n
    \n
    Marx hasn’t been explicity brought up yet (at least not in my comment). Only implicitly in the original post. Again: thought you were attacking me and was like “umm… So what?”\n
    \n
    > When people wave their hands around and say “labor theory of value isn’t objectively true!!”, they’re shadowboxing a ghost.\n
    \n
    I thought you meant me, since that was what I was basically saying. 😅\n
    \n
    > Value != price\n
    \n
    Now, that one wasn’t even implicitly mentioned.\n
    \n
    I hope you don’t hold my misunderstanding against me.
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 3
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1701975943 {#1715
    date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
    "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
    "@archomrade@midwest.social"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1716 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1739 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1740 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2465 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2463 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2411 …}
  -id: 207711
  -bodyTs: "'accus':22 'aggress':6 'around':79 'attack':66 'basic':106 'brought':47 'comment':55 'concept':41 'didn':26 'even':115 'explic':46 'figur':7 'form':12 'get':28 'ghost':94 'hand':78 'hard':14 'hasn':43 'hold':123 'hope':119 'implicit':57,116 'interpret':3 'isn':86 'labor':82 'labour':33 'least':51 'like':70 'marx':42 'marxist':40 'meant':98 'mention':117 'misunderstand':125 'object':88 'one':112 'origin':60 'peopl':75 'post':61 'price':109 're':91 'remind':30 'say':81,107 'shadowbox':92 'sinc':100 'sorri':1,18 'text':11 'theori':34,83 'thing':24 'thought':63,96 'tone':9 'true':89 'umm':71 'valu':36,85,108 'wasn':113 'wave':76 'wrong':21 'yet':49"
  +ranking: 0
  +commentCount: 0
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485494"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975943 {#1714
    date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 207711
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
24 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1718
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2003 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2559 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2581 …}
    +slug: "Know-your-enemy"
    +title: "Know your enemy"
    +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/4e8abd58-e357-4836-88ce-d57b36597f6b.jpeg"
    +body: null
    +type: "image"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: true
    +commentCount: 76
    +favouriteCount: 676
    +score: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +sticky: false
    +lastActive: DateTime @1702111873 {#2346
      date: 2023-12-09 09:51:13.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2580 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2578 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2575 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2609 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2605 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2622 …}
    +children: [
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1604 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
          +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
          +image: null
          +parent: null
          +root: null
          +body: """
            Reminder that while the labour theory of value can be practical to understand certain aspects of society, it is still culturally biased and not “objectively” true.\n
            \n
            What creates value can only be answered in a cultural framework.
            """
          +lang: "en"
          +isAdult: false
          +favouriteCount: 12
          +score: 0
          +lastActive: DateTime @1703499828 {#1580
            date: 2023-12-25 11:23:48.0 +01:00
          }
          +ip: null
          +tags: null
          +mentions: [
            "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          ]
          +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1561 …}
          +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1564 …}
          +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1563 …}
          +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1565 …}
          +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1558 …}
          +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1557 …}
          -id: 206964
          -bodyTs: "'answer':33 'aspect':15 'bias':22 'certain':14 'creat':28 'cultur':21,36 'framework':37 'labour':5 'object':25 'practic':11 'remind':1 'societi':17 'still':20 'theori':6 'true':26 'understand':13 'valu':8,29"
          +ranking: 0
          +commentCount: 0
          +upVotes: 0
          +downVotes: 0
          +visibility: "visible             "
          +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5480766"
          +editedAt: null
          +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701964861 {#1550
            date: 2023-12-07 17:01:01.0 +01:00
          }
          +"title": 206964
        }
        +body: """
          You’re right. It’s *one* theory. There is however ongoing debate on which theory is “correct”.\n
          \n
          This vid explains it quite well and with Simpsons clips so the hour of video is bearable:\n
          \n
          [www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw)
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701971365 {#1621
          date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1596 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1702 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1683 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1680 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1686 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1692 …}
        -id: 207387
        -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':37 'bearabl':34 'clip':27 'correct':17 'debat':12 'explain':20 'hour':30 'howev':10 'one':6 'ongo':11 'quit':22 're':2 'right':3 'simpson':26 'theori':7,15 'vid':19 'video':32 'well':23 'www.youtube.com':36 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':35"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5483715"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701971365 {#1620
          date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207387
      }
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1721
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1726 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Umm… Thanks for that unnecessarily aggressive seeming and a bit incompehensible addendum, I guess?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 4
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701975001 {#1723
          date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1728 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1730 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1734 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1727 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1733 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1724 …}
        -id: 207642
        -bodyTs: "'addendum':12 'aggress':6 'bit':10 'guess':14 'incompehens':11 'seem':7 'thank':2 'umm':1 'unnecessarili':5"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485206"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975001 {#1722
          date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207642
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1616
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1611 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          I was talking about the theory, not value. Sorry if that didn’t come across.\n
          \n
          Now that I think about it: isn’t value culturally determined in many things? Why are apple products more expensive than other computers with the same specs? Why is a ticket to a Billie Eilish concert more valuable than one to my neighbor’s indie rock band?
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701974894 {#1705
          date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1598 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1629 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1626 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1618 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1597 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1731 …}
        -id: 207637
        -bodyTs: "'across':15 'appl':32 'band':62 'billi':49 'come':14 'comput':38 'concert':51 'cultur':25 'determin':26 'didn':12 'eilish':50 'expens':35 'indi':60 'isn':22 'mani':28 'neighbor':58 'one':55 'product':33 'rock':61 'sorri':9 'spec':42 'talk':3 'theori':6 'thing':29 'think':19 'ticket':46 'valu':8,24 'valuabl':53"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485163"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701974894 {#1711
          date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207637
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1718}
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2458
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2461 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Where?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701976885 {#2422
          date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2456 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2453 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2457 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2455 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2468 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2469 …}
        -id: 207782
        -bodyTs: ""
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485802"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701976885 {#2462
          date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207782
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2370 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Don’t the two correlate?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701977809 {#2471
          date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2377 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2359 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2364 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2380 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2382 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2384 …}
        -id: 207842
        -bodyTs: "'correl':5 'two':4"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486088"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977809 {#2371
          date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207842
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          > Well now i’m confused. If ‘labor theory of value isn’t objectively true’ isn’t making an argument about the price of a commodity not being equal to the labor it embodies, I am not sure what you’re trying to say by it.\n
          \n
          A theory o value doesn’t necessarily say anything about price. As you said: “value != price”.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701977944 {#2379
          date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1909 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1926 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1874 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1908 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1883 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2389 …}
        -id: 207854
        -bodyTs: "'anyth':54 'argument':19 'commod':25 'confus':5 'doesn':50 'embodi':33 'equal':28 'isn':11,15 'labor':7,31 'm':4 'make':17 'necessarili':52 'o':48 'object':13 'price':22,56,61 're':40 'said':59 'say':43,53 'sure':37 'theori':8,47 'tri':41 'true':14 'valu':10,49,60 'well':1"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486136"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373971 {#2381
          date: 2023-12-24 00:26:11.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977944 {#2383
          date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207854
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2030 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          As far as I understand: Price tries to measure value. Therefore: A price needs a value, but value doesn’t need price. They correlate but are not the same.\n
          \n
          Were am I making the mistake? Genuine question.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980069 {#1403
          date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2032 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2024 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2018 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2011 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2021 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2029 …}
        -id: 207987
        -bodyTs: "'correl':24 'doesn':19 'far':2 'genuin':36 'make':33 'measur':9 'mistak':35 'need':14,21 'price':6,13,22 'question':37 'therefor':11 'tri':7 'understand':5 'valu':10,16,18"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487031"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980069 {#2019
          date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207987
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2393 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          There’s not even academical consensus what value actually *is*, AFAIK. Do preasts add value to anything with their labour? If not: Do social counsellors? What if a priest acts as a counsellor? Ask different economists with their theories of value and you’ll get several answers.\n
          \n
          Economic theories aren’t as rigid as theories from the natural sciences or mathematics. They are dependent on the culture in which they are perceived. A non-capitalist society would have different theories or value (or none at all) than we do.\n
          \n
          [This guy can explain it properly](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw), I’m not an economist and kinda regret making that comment.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 6
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701979923 {#2387
          date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@JayDee@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1384 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1383 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1405 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1382 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1404 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1361 …}
        -id: 207981
        -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':99 'academ':5 'act':30 'actual':9 'add':14 'afaik':11 'answer':47 'anyth':17 'aren':50 'ask':34 'capitalist':76 'comment':110 'consensus':6 'counsellor':25,33 'cultur':67 'depend':64 'differ':35,80 'econom':48 'economist':36,104 'even':4 'explain':94 'get':45 'guy':92 'kinda':106 'labour':20 'll':44 'm':101 'make':108 'mathemat':61 'natur':58 'non':75 'non-capitalist':74 'none':85 'perceiv':72 'preast':13 'priest':29 'proper':96 'regret':107 'rigid':53 'scienc':59 'sever':46 'social':24 'societi':77 'theori':39,49,55,81 'valu':8,15,41,83 'would':78 'www.youtube.com':98 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':97"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486914"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373897 {#2392
          date: 2023-12-24 00:24:57.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701979923 {#2394
          date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207981
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2062 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "I wouldn’t have been able to write it this consise, but that’s kind of one thing I wanted to point towards in my original comment."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980622 {#2082
          date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2081 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2098 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2080 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2089 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2095 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2091 …}
        -id: 208044
        -bodyTs: "'abl':6 'comment':27 'consis':11 'kind':15 'one':17 'origin':26 'point':22 'thing':18 'toward':23 'want':20 'wouldn':2 'write':8"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487230"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980622 {#2085
          date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208044
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2035 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          It’s an economic theory and therefore more to be understood as a model on how economics work.\n
          \n
          The natural sciences have a hard core. The theory of gravity depends on how matter interacts in an objective, physical framework. Economic theories basically describe human interaction which are based on psychology and sociology. Therefore they depend on the societal context they are made in.\n
          \n
          If you understand them as models that are tools on how to understand the world, they become more useful in political analysis (I know we are in a meme community here, but everything is politics and so on and so on…).\n
          \n
          I do subscribe to many conclusions the labour theory of value and especially Marx came to. But I want y’all to *remember* that the theory is a mere tool for understanding and not a sacred, holy theory.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980460 {#2020
          date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2031 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2037 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2075 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2079 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2078 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2097 …}
        -id: 208027
        -bodyTs: "'analysi':85 'base':48 'basic':42 'becom':80 'came':119 'communiti':93 'conclus':110 'context':59 'core':25 'depend':30,55 'describ':43 'econom':4,17,40 'especi':117 'everyth':96 'framework':39 'graviti':29 'hard':24 'holi':141 'human':44 'interact':34,45 'know':87 'labour':112 'made':62 'mani':109 'marx':118 'matter':33 'meme':92 'mere':133 'model':14,69 'natur':20 'object':37 'physic':38 'polit':84,98 'psycholog':50 'rememb':127 'sacr':140 'scienc':21 'societ':58 'sociolog':52 'subscrib':107 'theori':5,27,41,113,130,142 'therefor':7,53 'tool':72,134 'understand':66,76,136 'understood':11 'use':82 'valu':115 'want':123 'work':18 'world':78 'y':124"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487165"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980460 {#2013
          date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208027
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2094
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2241 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          > Why the neutral language all of a sudden?\n
          \n
          I was trying to be understood a bit better.\n
          \n
          > Are you trying to say 'all economic theories and models are not objectively true"?\n
          \n
          Not explicitally, but yeah: models aren’t used for “objective truth”. They’re used to *model* (i.e. simplify) reality to make observations and guesses for the future.\n
          \n
          > Why would that be worth saying in response to the OP?\n
          \n
          I feel like a lot of leftists think that understanding economics starts and ends with “capitalists exploit the labouring class”, while not actually engaging with the subject matter. I guess most can’t even explain LTV properly before getting mad at capitalists.\n
          \n
          As I’ve written before: I agree with most conclusions of marxist analysis that I know and I probably don’t even know half of them. But I think that political analysis should use LTV as a tool to understand the world and not the end of socio-economical disgussion (because that would ignore important parts of today’s economy).\n
          \n
          > It really just seems like you disagree with the ‘your stolen labor value’ claim in the OP, and are attributing it to the ‘labor theory of value’\n
          \n
          I don’t. I wanted to remind people as to make political analysis not too easy by taking the mental shortcut of reducing current capitalism on the problems pointed out by Marx rendition of LTV.\n
          \n
          > (as opposed to dismissing it because you disagree with some portion of the theory you’ve neglected to mention)\n
          \n
          I don’t disagree. I also don’t disagree with the atomic model of Niels Bohr when it comes to calculating electron potential. When it comes to observing e.g. electron spin, that particular model will probably fall flat. That doesn’t mean I “disagree” with the model, though.\n
          \n
          > My hunch is that you don’t feel confident enough in your understanding to make any kind of firm claim and are just dancing around making vague gestures toward ‘labor’ and ‘value’ definitions as a way of avoiding it.\n
          \n
          I’m not too confident in my economic knowledge, true. But I *am* quite confident in how models should be used in soft sciences.\n
          \n
          Addendum: I’d like to kindly ask you to give me a little bit of benefit of the doubt. Otherwise, I’ll just disengage due to that accusatory tone I’m getting from you being a bit exhausting.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701985632 {#2090
          date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2140 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2133 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2131 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2138 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2345 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2330 …}
        -id: 208351
        -bodyTs: "'accusatori':392 'actual':92 'addendum':365 'agre':118 'also':259 'analysi':124,143,212 'aren':37 'around':326 'ask':371 'atom':265 'attribut':192 'avoid':339 'benefit':380 'better':17 'bit':16,378,401 'bohr':269 'calcul':274 'capit':224 'capitalist':85,111 'claim':186,321 'class':89 'come':272,279 'conclus':121 'confid':310,345,355 'current':223 'd':367 'danc':325 'definit':334 'disagre':179,242,257,262,297 'disengag':388 'disguss':162 'dismiss':238 'doesn':293 'doubt':383 'due':389 'e.g':282 'easi':215 'econom':24,80,161,348 'economi':172 'electron':275,283 'end':83,157 'engag':93 'enough':311 'even':103,133 'exhaust':402 'explain':104 'explicit':33 'exploit':86 'fall':290 'feel':71,309 'firm':320 'flat':291 'futur':58 'gestur':329 'get':108,396 'give':374 'guess':55,99 'half':135 'hunch':303 'i.e':48 'ignor':166 'import':167 'kind':318,370 'know':127,134 'knowledg':349 'labor':184,196,331 'labour':88 'languag':4 'leftist':76 'like':72,177,368 'littl':377 'll':386 'lot':74 'ltv':105,146,234 'm':342,395 'mad':109 'make':52,210,316,327 'marx':231 'marxist':123 'matter':97 'mean':295 'mental':219 'mention':253 'model':27,36,47,266,287,300,358 'neglect':251 'neutral':3 'niel':268 'object':30,41 'observ':53,281 'op':69,189 'oppos':236 'otherwis':384 'part':168 'particular':286 'peopl':207 'point':228 'polit':142,211 'portion':245 'potenti':276 'probabl':130,289 'problem':227 'proper':106 'quit':354 're':44 'realiti':50 'realli':174 'reduc':222 'remind':206 'rendit':232 'respons':66 'say':22,64 'scienc':364 'seem':176 'shortcut':220 'simplifi':49 'socio':160 'socio-econom':159 'soft':363 'spin':284 'start':81 'stolen':183 'subject':96 'sudden':8 'take':217 'theori':25,197,248 'think':77,140 'though':301 'today':170 'tone':393 'tool':149 'toward':330 'tri':11,20 'true':31,350 'truth':42 'understand':79,151,314 'understood':14 'use':39,45,145,361 'vagu':328 'valu':185,199,333 've':114,250 'want':204 'way':337 'world':153 'worth':63 'would':60,165 'written':115 'yeah':35"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5489133"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703384328 {#2093
          date: 2023-12-24 03:18:48.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701985632 {#2092
          date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208351
      }
    ]
    -id: 20852
    -titleTs: "'enemi':3 'know':1"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1702038246
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemmy.ml/post/8990722"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701951846 {#2506
      date: 2023-12-07 13:24:06.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1720 …}
  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
  +body: """
    Sorry, I interpreted it as aggressive. Figuring out tone in text form is hard and all that. Sorry that I wrongly accused you.\n
    \n
    Things I didn’t get:\n
    \n
    > A reminder that the labour theory of value is not a marxist concept.\n
    \n
    Marx hasn’t been explicity brought up yet (at least not in my comment). Only implicitly in the original post. Again: thought you were attacking me and was like “umm… So what?”\n
    \n
    > When people wave their hands around and say “labor theory of value isn’t objectively true!!”, they’re shadowboxing a ghost.\n
    \n
    I thought you meant me, since that was what I was basically saying. 😅\n
    \n
    > Value != price\n
    \n
    Now, that one wasn’t even implicitly mentioned.\n
    \n
    I hope you don’t hold my misunderstanding against me.
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 3
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1701975943 {#1715
    date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
    "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
    "@archomrade@midwest.social"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1716 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1739 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1740 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2465 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2463 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2411 …}
  -id: 207711
  -bodyTs: "'accus':22 'aggress':6 'around':79 'attack':66 'basic':106 'brought':47 'comment':55 'concept':41 'didn':26 'even':115 'explic':46 'figur':7 'form':12 'get':28 'ghost':94 'hand':78 'hard':14 'hasn':43 'hold':123 'hope':119 'implicit':57,116 'interpret':3 'isn':86 'labor':82 'labour':33 'least':51 'like':70 'marx':42 'marxist':40 'meant':98 'mention':117 'misunderstand':125 'object':88 'one':112 'origin':60 'peopl':75 'post':61 'price':109 're':91 'remind':30 'say':81,107 'shadowbox':92 'sinc':100 'sorri':1,18 'text':11 'theori':34,83 'thing':24 'thought':63,96 'tone':9 'true':89 'umm':71 'valu':36,85,108 'wasn':113 'wave':76 'wrong':21 'yet':49"
  +ranking: 0
  +commentCount: 0
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485494"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975943 {#1714
    date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 207711
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
25 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
26 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2458
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2003 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2559 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2581 …}
    +slug: "Know-your-enemy"
    +title: "Know your enemy"
    +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/4e8abd58-e357-4836-88ce-d57b36597f6b.jpeg"
    +body: null
    +type: "image"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: true
    +commentCount: 76
    +favouriteCount: 676
    +score: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +sticky: false
    +lastActive: DateTime @1702111873 {#2346
      date: 2023-12-09 09:51:13.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2580 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2578 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2575 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2609 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2605 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2622 …}
    +children: [
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1604 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
          +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
          +image: null
          +parent: null
          +root: null
          +body: """
            Reminder that while the labour theory of value can be practical to understand certain aspects of society, it is still culturally biased and not “objectively” true.\n
            \n
            What creates value can only be answered in a cultural framework.
            """
          +lang: "en"
          +isAdult: false
          +favouriteCount: 12
          +score: 0
          +lastActive: DateTime @1703499828 {#1580
            date: 2023-12-25 11:23:48.0 +01:00
          }
          +ip: null
          +tags: null
          +mentions: [
            "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          ]
          +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1561 …}
          +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1564 …}
          +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1563 …}
          +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1565 …}
          +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1558 …}
          +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1557 …}
          -id: 206964
          -bodyTs: "'answer':33 'aspect':15 'bias':22 'certain':14 'creat':28 'cultur':21,36 'framework':37 'labour':5 'object':25 'practic':11 'remind':1 'societi':17 'still':20 'theori':6 'true':26 'understand':13 'valu':8,29"
          +ranking: 0
          +commentCount: 0
          +upVotes: 0
          +downVotes: 0
          +visibility: "visible             "
          +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5480766"
          +editedAt: null
          +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701964861 {#1550
            date: 2023-12-07 17:01:01.0 +01:00
          }
          +"title": 206964
        }
        +body: """
          You’re right. It’s *one* theory. There is however ongoing debate on which theory is “correct”.\n
          \n
          This vid explains it quite well and with Simpsons clips so the hour of video is bearable:\n
          \n
          [www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw)
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701971365 {#1621
          date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1596 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1702 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1683 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1680 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1686 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1692 …}
        -id: 207387
        -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':37 'bearabl':34 'clip':27 'correct':17 'debat':12 'explain':20 'hour':30 'howev':10 'one':6 'ongo':11 'quit':22 're':2 'right':3 'simpson':26 'theori':7,15 'vid':19 'video':32 'well':23 'www.youtube.com':36 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':35"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5483715"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701971365 {#1620
          date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207387
      }
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1721
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1726 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Umm… Thanks for that unnecessarily aggressive seeming and a bit incompehensible addendum, I guess?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 4
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701975001 {#1723
          date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1728 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1730 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1734 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1727 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1733 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1724 …}
        -id: 207642
        -bodyTs: "'addendum':12 'aggress':6 'bit':10 'guess':14 'incompehens':11 'seem':7 'thank':2 'umm':1 'unnecessarili':5"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485206"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975001 {#1722
          date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207642
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1616
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1611 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          I was talking about the theory, not value. Sorry if that didn’t come across.\n
          \n
          Now that I think about it: isn’t value culturally determined in many things? Why are apple products more expensive than other computers with the same specs? Why is a ticket to a Billie Eilish concert more valuable than one to my neighbor’s indie rock band?
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701974894 {#1705
          date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1598 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1629 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1626 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1618 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1597 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1731 …}
        -id: 207637
        -bodyTs: "'across':15 'appl':32 'band':62 'billi':49 'come':14 'comput':38 'concert':51 'cultur':25 'determin':26 'didn':12 'eilish':50 'expens':35 'indi':60 'isn':22 'mani':28 'neighbor':58 'one':55 'product':33 'rock':61 'sorri':9 'spec':42 'talk':3 'theori':6 'thing':29 'think':19 'ticket':46 'valu':8,24 'valuabl':53"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485163"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701974894 {#1711
          date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207637
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1718
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1720 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          Sorry, I interpreted it as aggressive. Figuring out tone in text form is hard and all that. Sorry that I wrongly accused you.\n
          \n
          Things I didn’t get:\n
          \n
          > A reminder that the labour theory of value is not a marxist concept.\n
          \n
          Marx hasn’t been explicity brought up yet (at least not in my comment). Only implicitly in the original post. Again: thought you were attacking me and was like “umm… So what?”\n
          \n
          > When people wave their hands around and say “labor theory of value isn’t objectively true!!”, they’re shadowboxing a ghost.\n
          \n
          I thought you meant me, since that was what I was basically saying. 😅\n
          \n
          > Value != price\n
          \n
          Now, that one wasn’t even implicitly mentioned.\n
          \n
          I hope you don’t hold my misunderstanding against me.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 3
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701975943 {#1715
          date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1716 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1739 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1740 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2465 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2463 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2411 …}
        -id: 207711
        -bodyTs: "'accus':22 'aggress':6 'around':79 'attack':66 'basic':106 'brought':47 'comment':55 'concept':41 'didn':26 'even':115 'explic':46 'figur':7 'form':12 'get':28 'ghost':94 'hand':78 'hard':14 'hasn':43 'hold':123 'hope':119 'implicit':57,116 'interpret':3 'isn':86 'labor':82 'labour':33 'least':51 'like':70 'marx':42 'marxist':40 'meant':98 'mention':117 'misunderstand':125 'object':88 'one':112 'origin':60 'peopl':75 'post':61 'price':109 're':91 'remind':30 'say':81,107 'shadowbox':92 'sinc':100 'sorri':1,18 'text':11 'theori':34,83 'thing':24 'thought':63,96 'tone':9 'true':89 'umm':71 'valu':36,85,108 'wasn':113 'wave':76 'wrong':21 'yet':49"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485494"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975943 {#1714
          date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207711
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2458}
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2370 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Don’t the two correlate?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701977809 {#2471
          date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2377 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2359 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2364 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2380 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2382 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2384 …}
        -id: 207842
        -bodyTs: "'correl':5 'two':4"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486088"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977809 {#2371
          date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207842
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          > Well now i’m confused. If ‘labor theory of value isn’t objectively true’ isn’t making an argument about the price of a commodity not being equal to the labor it embodies, I am not sure what you’re trying to say by it.\n
          \n
          A theory o value doesn’t necessarily say anything about price. As you said: “value != price”.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701977944 {#2379
          date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1909 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1926 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1874 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1908 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1883 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2389 …}
        -id: 207854
        -bodyTs: "'anyth':54 'argument':19 'commod':25 'confus':5 'doesn':50 'embodi':33 'equal':28 'isn':11,15 'labor':7,31 'm':4 'make':17 'necessarili':52 'o':48 'object':13 'price':22,56,61 're':40 'said':59 'say':43,53 'sure':37 'theori':8,47 'tri':41 'true':14 'valu':10,49,60 'well':1"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486136"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373971 {#2381
          date: 2023-12-24 00:26:11.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977944 {#2383
          date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207854
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2030 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          As far as I understand: Price tries to measure value. Therefore: A price needs a value, but value doesn’t need price. They correlate but are not the same.\n
          \n
          Were am I making the mistake? Genuine question.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980069 {#1403
          date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2032 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2024 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2018 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2011 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2021 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2029 …}
        -id: 207987
        -bodyTs: "'correl':24 'doesn':19 'far':2 'genuin':36 'make':33 'measur':9 'mistak':35 'need':14,21 'price':6,13,22 'question':37 'therefor':11 'tri':7 'understand':5 'valu':10,16,18"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487031"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980069 {#2019
          date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207987
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2393 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          There’s not even academical consensus what value actually *is*, AFAIK. Do preasts add value to anything with their labour? If not: Do social counsellors? What if a priest acts as a counsellor? Ask different economists with their theories of value and you’ll get several answers.\n
          \n
          Economic theories aren’t as rigid as theories from the natural sciences or mathematics. They are dependent on the culture in which they are perceived. A non-capitalist society would have different theories or value (or none at all) than we do.\n
          \n
          [This guy can explain it properly](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw), I’m not an economist and kinda regret making that comment.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 6
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701979923 {#2387
          date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@JayDee@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1384 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1383 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1405 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1382 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1404 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1361 …}
        -id: 207981
        -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':99 'academ':5 'act':30 'actual':9 'add':14 'afaik':11 'answer':47 'anyth':17 'aren':50 'ask':34 'capitalist':76 'comment':110 'consensus':6 'counsellor':25,33 'cultur':67 'depend':64 'differ':35,80 'econom':48 'economist':36,104 'even':4 'explain':94 'get':45 'guy':92 'kinda':106 'labour':20 'll':44 'm':101 'make':108 'mathemat':61 'natur':58 'non':75 'non-capitalist':74 'none':85 'perceiv':72 'preast':13 'priest':29 'proper':96 'regret':107 'rigid':53 'scienc':59 'sever':46 'social':24 'societi':77 'theori':39,49,55,81 'valu':8,15,41,83 'would':78 'www.youtube.com':98 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':97"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486914"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373897 {#2392
          date: 2023-12-24 00:24:57.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701979923 {#2394
          date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207981
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2062 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "I wouldn’t have been able to write it this consise, but that’s kind of one thing I wanted to point towards in my original comment."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980622 {#2082
          date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2081 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2098 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2080 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2089 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2095 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2091 …}
        -id: 208044
        -bodyTs: "'abl':6 'comment':27 'consis':11 'kind':15 'one':17 'origin':26 'point':22 'thing':18 'toward':23 'want':20 'wouldn':2 'write':8"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487230"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980622 {#2085
          date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208044
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2035 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          It’s an economic theory and therefore more to be understood as a model on how economics work.\n
          \n
          The natural sciences have a hard core. The theory of gravity depends on how matter interacts in an objective, physical framework. Economic theories basically describe human interaction which are based on psychology and sociology. Therefore they depend on the societal context they are made in.\n
          \n
          If you understand them as models that are tools on how to understand the world, they become more useful in political analysis (I know we are in a meme community here, but everything is politics and so on and so on…).\n
          \n
          I do subscribe to many conclusions the labour theory of value and especially Marx came to. But I want y’all to *remember* that the theory is a mere tool for understanding and not a sacred, holy theory.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980460 {#2020
          date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2031 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2037 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2075 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2079 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2078 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2097 …}
        -id: 208027
        -bodyTs: "'analysi':85 'base':48 'basic':42 'becom':80 'came':119 'communiti':93 'conclus':110 'context':59 'core':25 'depend':30,55 'describ':43 'econom':4,17,40 'especi':117 'everyth':96 'framework':39 'graviti':29 'hard':24 'holi':141 'human':44 'interact':34,45 'know':87 'labour':112 'made':62 'mani':109 'marx':118 'matter':33 'meme':92 'mere':133 'model':14,69 'natur':20 'object':37 'physic':38 'polit':84,98 'psycholog':50 'rememb':127 'sacr':140 'scienc':21 'societ':58 'sociolog':52 'subscrib':107 'theori':5,27,41,113,130,142 'therefor':7,53 'tool':72,134 'understand':66,76,136 'understood':11 'use':82 'valu':115 'want':123 'work':18 'world':78 'y':124"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487165"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980460 {#2013
          date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208027
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2094
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2241 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          > Why the neutral language all of a sudden?\n
          \n
          I was trying to be understood a bit better.\n
          \n
          > Are you trying to say 'all economic theories and models are not objectively true"?\n
          \n
          Not explicitally, but yeah: models aren’t used for “objective truth”. They’re used to *model* (i.e. simplify) reality to make observations and guesses for the future.\n
          \n
          > Why would that be worth saying in response to the OP?\n
          \n
          I feel like a lot of leftists think that understanding economics starts and ends with “capitalists exploit the labouring class”, while not actually engaging with the subject matter. I guess most can’t even explain LTV properly before getting mad at capitalists.\n
          \n
          As I’ve written before: I agree with most conclusions of marxist analysis that I know and I probably don’t even know half of them. But I think that political analysis should use LTV as a tool to understand the world and not the end of socio-economical disgussion (because that would ignore important parts of today’s economy).\n
          \n
          > It really just seems like you disagree with the ‘your stolen labor value’ claim in the OP, and are attributing it to the ‘labor theory of value’\n
          \n
          I don’t. I wanted to remind people as to make political analysis not too easy by taking the mental shortcut of reducing current capitalism on the problems pointed out by Marx rendition of LTV.\n
          \n
          > (as opposed to dismissing it because you disagree with some portion of the theory you’ve neglected to mention)\n
          \n
          I don’t disagree. I also don’t disagree with the atomic model of Niels Bohr when it comes to calculating electron potential. When it comes to observing e.g. electron spin, that particular model will probably fall flat. That doesn’t mean I “disagree” with the model, though.\n
          \n
          > My hunch is that you don’t feel confident enough in your understanding to make any kind of firm claim and are just dancing around making vague gestures toward ‘labor’ and ‘value’ definitions as a way of avoiding it.\n
          \n
          I’m not too confident in my economic knowledge, true. But I *am* quite confident in how models should be used in soft sciences.\n
          \n
          Addendum: I’d like to kindly ask you to give me a little bit of benefit of the doubt. Otherwise, I’ll just disengage due to that accusatory tone I’m getting from you being a bit exhausting.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701985632 {#2090
          date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2140 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2133 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2131 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2138 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2345 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2330 …}
        -id: 208351
        -bodyTs: "'accusatori':392 'actual':92 'addendum':365 'agre':118 'also':259 'analysi':124,143,212 'aren':37 'around':326 'ask':371 'atom':265 'attribut':192 'avoid':339 'benefit':380 'better':17 'bit':16,378,401 'bohr':269 'calcul':274 'capit':224 'capitalist':85,111 'claim':186,321 'class':89 'come':272,279 'conclus':121 'confid':310,345,355 'current':223 'd':367 'danc':325 'definit':334 'disagre':179,242,257,262,297 'disengag':388 'disguss':162 'dismiss':238 'doesn':293 'doubt':383 'due':389 'e.g':282 'easi':215 'econom':24,80,161,348 'economi':172 'electron':275,283 'end':83,157 'engag':93 'enough':311 'even':103,133 'exhaust':402 'explain':104 'explicit':33 'exploit':86 'fall':290 'feel':71,309 'firm':320 'flat':291 'futur':58 'gestur':329 'get':108,396 'give':374 'guess':55,99 'half':135 'hunch':303 'i.e':48 'ignor':166 'import':167 'kind':318,370 'know':127,134 'knowledg':349 'labor':184,196,331 'labour':88 'languag':4 'leftist':76 'like':72,177,368 'littl':377 'll':386 'lot':74 'ltv':105,146,234 'm':342,395 'mad':109 'make':52,210,316,327 'marx':231 'marxist':123 'matter':97 'mean':295 'mental':219 'mention':253 'model':27,36,47,266,287,300,358 'neglect':251 'neutral':3 'niel':268 'object':30,41 'observ':53,281 'op':69,189 'oppos':236 'otherwis':384 'part':168 'particular':286 'peopl':207 'point':228 'polit':142,211 'portion':245 'potenti':276 'probabl':130,289 'problem':227 'proper':106 'quit':354 're':44 'realiti':50 'realli':174 'reduc':222 'remind':206 'rendit':232 'respons':66 'say':22,64 'scienc':364 'seem':176 'shortcut':220 'simplifi':49 'socio':160 'socio-econom':159 'soft':363 'spin':284 'start':81 'stolen':183 'subject':96 'sudden':8 'take':217 'theori':25,197,248 'think':77,140 'though':301 'today':170 'tone':393 'tool':149 'toward':330 'tri':11,20 'true':31,350 'truth':42 'understand':79,151,314 'understood':14 'use':39,45,145,361 'vagu':328 'valu':185,199,333 've':114,250 'want':204 'way':337 'world':153 'worth':63 'would':60,165 'written':115 'yeah':35"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5489133"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703384328 {#2093
          date: 2023-12-24 03:18:48.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701985632 {#2092
          date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208351
      }
    ]
    -id: 20852
    -titleTs: "'enemi':3 'know':1"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1702038246
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemmy.ml/post/8990722"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701951846 {#2506
      date: 2023-12-07 13:24:06.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2461 …}
  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
  +body: "Where?"
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 2
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1701976885 {#2422
    date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
    "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
    "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2456 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2453 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2457 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2455 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2468 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2469 …}
  -id: 207782
  -bodyTs: ""
  +ranking: 0
  +commentCount: 0
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485802"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701976885 {#2462
    date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 207782
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
27 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2458
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2003 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2559 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2581 …}
    +slug: "Know-your-enemy"
    +title: "Know your enemy"
    +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/4e8abd58-e357-4836-88ce-d57b36597f6b.jpeg"
    +body: null
    +type: "image"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: true
    +commentCount: 76
    +favouriteCount: 676
    +score: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +sticky: false
    +lastActive: DateTime @1702111873 {#2346
      date: 2023-12-09 09:51:13.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2580 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2578 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2575 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2609 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2605 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2622 …}
    +children: [
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1604 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
          +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
          +image: null
          +parent: null
          +root: null
          +body: """
            Reminder that while the labour theory of value can be practical to understand certain aspects of society, it is still culturally biased and not “objectively” true.\n
            \n
            What creates value can only be answered in a cultural framework.
            """
          +lang: "en"
          +isAdult: false
          +favouriteCount: 12
          +score: 0
          +lastActive: DateTime @1703499828 {#1580
            date: 2023-12-25 11:23:48.0 +01:00
          }
          +ip: null
          +tags: null
          +mentions: [
            "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          ]
          +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1561 …}
          +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1564 …}
          +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1563 …}
          +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1565 …}
          +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1558 …}
          +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1557 …}
          -id: 206964
          -bodyTs: "'answer':33 'aspect':15 'bias':22 'certain':14 'creat':28 'cultur':21,36 'framework':37 'labour':5 'object':25 'practic':11 'remind':1 'societi':17 'still':20 'theori':6 'true':26 'understand':13 'valu':8,29"
          +ranking: 0
          +commentCount: 0
          +upVotes: 0
          +downVotes: 0
          +visibility: "visible             "
          +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5480766"
          +editedAt: null
          +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701964861 {#1550
            date: 2023-12-07 17:01:01.0 +01:00
          }
          +"title": 206964
        }
        +body: """
          You’re right. It’s *one* theory. There is however ongoing debate on which theory is “correct”.\n
          \n
          This vid explains it quite well and with Simpsons clips so the hour of video is bearable:\n
          \n
          [www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw)
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701971365 {#1621
          date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1596 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1702 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1683 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1680 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1686 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1692 …}
        -id: 207387
        -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':37 'bearabl':34 'clip':27 'correct':17 'debat':12 'explain':20 'hour':30 'howev':10 'one':6 'ongo':11 'quit':22 're':2 'right':3 'simpson':26 'theori':7,15 'vid':19 'video':32 'well':23 'www.youtube.com':36 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':35"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5483715"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701971365 {#1620
          date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207387
      }
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1721
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1726 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Umm… Thanks for that unnecessarily aggressive seeming and a bit incompehensible addendum, I guess?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 4
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701975001 {#1723
          date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1728 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1730 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1734 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1727 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1733 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1724 …}
        -id: 207642
        -bodyTs: "'addendum':12 'aggress':6 'bit':10 'guess':14 'incompehens':11 'seem':7 'thank':2 'umm':1 'unnecessarili':5"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485206"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975001 {#1722
          date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207642
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1616
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1611 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          I was talking about the theory, not value. Sorry if that didn’t come across.\n
          \n
          Now that I think about it: isn’t value culturally determined in many things? Why are apple products more expensive than other computers with the same specs? Why is a ticket to a Billie Eilish concert more valuable than one to my neighbor’s indie rock band?
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701974894 {#1705
          date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1598 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1629 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1626 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1618 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1597 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1731 …}
        -id: 207637
        -bodyTs: "'across':15 'appl':32 'band':62 'billi':49 'come':14 'comput':38 'concert':51 'cultur':25 'determin':26 'didn':12 'eilish':50 'expens':35 'indi':60 'isn':22 'mani':28 'neighbor':58 'one':55 'product':33 'rock':61 'sorri':9 'spec':42 'talk':3 'theori':6 'thing':29 'think':19 'ticket':46 'valu':8,24 'valuabl':53"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485163"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701974894 {#1711
          date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207637
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1718
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1720 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          Sorry, I interpreted it as aggressive. Figuring out tone in text form is hard and all that. Sorry that I wrongly accused you.\n
          \n
          Things I didn’t get:\n
          \n
          > A reminder that the labour theory of value is not a marxist concept.\n
          \n
          Marx hasn’t been explicity brought up yet (at least not in my comment). Only implicitly in the original post. Again: thought you were attacking me and was like “umm… So what?”\n
          \n
          > When people wave their hands around and say “labor theory of value isn’t objectively true!!”, they’re shadowboxing a ghost.\n
          \n
          I thought you meant me, since that was what I was basically saying. 😅\n
          \n
          > Value != price\n
          \n
          Now, that one wasn’t even implicitly mentioned.\n
          \n
          I hope you don’t hold my misunderstanding against me.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 3
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701975943 {#1715
          date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1716 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1739 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1740 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2465 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2463 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2411 …}
        -id: 207711
        -bodyTs: "'accus':22 'aggress':6 'around':79 'attack':66 'basic':106 'brought':47 'comment':55 'concept':41 'didn':26 'even':115 'explic':46 'figur':7 'form':12 'get':28 'ghost':94 'hand':78 'hard':14 'hasn':43 'hold':123 'hope':119 'implicit':57,116 'interpret':3 'isn':86 'labor':82 'labour':33 'least':51 'like':70 'marx':42 'marxist':40 'meant':98 'mention':117 'misunderstand':125 'object':88 'one':112 'origin':60 'peopl':75 'post':61 'price':109 're':91 'remind':30 'say':81,107 'shadowbox':92 'sinc':100 'sorri':1,18 'text':11 'theori':34,83 'thing':24 'thought':63,96 'tone':9 'true':89 'umm':71 'valu':36,85,108 'wasn':113 'wave':76 'wrong':21 'yet':49"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485494"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975943 {#1714
          date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207711
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2458}
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2370 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Don’t the two correlate?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701977809 {#2471
          date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2377 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2359 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2364 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2380 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2382 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2384 …}
        -id: 207842
        -bodyTs: "'correl':5 'two':4"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486088"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977809 {#2371
          date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207842
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          > Well now i’m confused. If ‘labor theory of value isn’t objectively true’ isn’t making an argument about the price of a commodity not being equal to the labor it embodies, I am not sure what you’re trying to say by it.\n
          \n
          A theory o value doesn’t necessarily say anything about price. As you said: “value != price”.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701977944 {#2379
          date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1909 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1926 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1874 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1908 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1883 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2389 …}
        -id: 207854
        -bodyTs: "'anyth':54 'argument':19 'commod':25 'confus':5 'doesn':50 'embodi':33 'equal':28 'isn':11,15 'labor':7,31 'm':4 'make':17 'necessarili':52 'o':48 'object':13 'price':22,56,61 're':40 'said':59 'say':43,53 'sure':37 'theori':8,47 'tri':41 'true':14 'valu':10,49,60 'well':1"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486136"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373971 {#2381
          date: 2023-12-24 00:26:11.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977944 {#2383
          date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207854
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2030 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          As far as I understand: Price tries to measure value. Therefore: A price needs a value, but value doesn’t need price. They correlate but are not the same.\n
          \n
          Were am I making the mistake? Genuine question.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980069 {#1403
          date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2032 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2024 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2018 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2011 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2021 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2029 …}
        -id: 207987
        -bodyTs: "'correl':24 'doesn':19 'far':2 'genuin':36 'make':33 'measur':9 'mistak':35 'need':14,21 'price':6,13,22 'question':37 'therefor':11 'tri':7 'understand':5 'valu':10,16,18"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487031"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980069 {#2019
          date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207987
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2393 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          There’s not even academical consensus what value actually *is*, AFAIK. Do preasts add value to anything with their labour? If not: Do social counsellors? What if a priest acts as a counsellor? Ask different economists with their theories of value and you’ll get several answers.\n
          \n
          Economic theories aren’t as rigid as theories from the natural sciences or mathematics. They are dependent on the culture in which they are perceived. A non-capitalist society would have different theories or value (or none at all) than we do.\n
          \n
          [This guy can explain it properly](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw), I’m not an economist and kinda regret making that comment.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 6
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701979923 {#2387
          date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@JayDee@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1384 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1383 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1405 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1382 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1404 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1361 …}
        -id: 207981
        -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':99 'academ':5 'act':30 'actual':9 'add':14 'afaik':11 'answer':47 'anyth':17 'aren':50 'ask':34 'capitalist':76 'comment':110 'consensus':6 'counsellor':25,33 'cultur':67 'depend':64 'differ':35,80 'econom':48 'economist':36,104 'even':4 'explain':94 'get':45 'guy':92 'kinda':106 'labour':20 'll':44 'm':101 'make':108 'mathemat':61 'natur':58 'non':75 'non-capitalist':74 'none':85 'perceiv':72 'preast':13 'priest':29 'proper':96 'regret':107 'rigid':53 'scienc':59 'sever':46 'social':24 'societi':77 'theori':39,49,55,81 'valu':8,15,41,83 'would':78 'www.youtube.com':98 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':97"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486914"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373897 {#2392
          date: 2023-12-24 00:24:57.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701979923 {#2394
          date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207981
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2062 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "I wouldn’t have been able to write it this consise, but that’s kind of one thing I wanted to point towards in my original comment."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980622 {#2082
          date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2081 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2098 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2080 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2089 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2095 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2091 …}
        -id: 208044
        -bodyTs: "'abl':6 'comment':27 'consis':11 'kind':15 'one':17 'origin':26 'point':22 'thing':18 'toward':23 'want':20 'wouldn':2 'write':8"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487230"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980622 {#2085
          date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208044
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2035 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          It’s an economic theory and therefore more to be understood as a model on how economics work.\n
          \n
          The natural sciences have a hard core. The theory of gravity depends on how matter interacts in an objective, physical framework. Economic theories basically describe human interaction which are based on psychology and sociology. Therefore they depend on the societal context they are made in.\n
          \n
          If you understand them as models that are tools on how to understand the world, they become more useful in political analysis (I know we are in a meme community here, but everything is politics and so on and so on…).\n
          \n
          I do subscribe to many conclusions the labour theory of value and especially Marx came to. But I want y’all to *remember* that the theory is a mere tool for understanding and not a sacred, holy theory.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980460 {#2020
          date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2031 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2037 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2075 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2079 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2078 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2097 …}
        -id: 208027
        -bodyTs: "'analysi':85 'base':48 'basic':42 'becom':80 'came':119 'communiti':93 'conclus':110 'context':59 'core':25 'depend':30,55 'describ':43 'econom':4,17,40 'especi':117 'everyth':96 'framework':39 'graviti':29 'hard':24 'holi':141 'human':44 'interact':34,45 'know':87 'labour':112 'made':62 'mani':109 'marx':118 'matter':33 'meme':92 'mere':133 'model':14,69 'natur':20 'object':37 'physic':38 'polit':84,98 'psycholog':50 'rememb':127 'sacr':140 'scienc':21 'societ':58 'sociolog':52 'subscrib':107 'theori':5,27,41,113,130,142 'therefor':7,53 'tool':72,134 'understand':66,76,136 'understood':11 'use':82 'valu':115 'want':123 'work':18 'world':78 'y':124"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487165"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980460 {#2013
          date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208027
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2094
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2241 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          > Why the neutral language all of a sudden?\n
          \n
          I was trying to be understood a bit better.\n
          \n
          > Are you trying to say 'all economic theories and models are not objectively true"?\n
          \n
          Not explicitally, but yeah: models aren’t used for “objective truth”. They’re used to *model* (i.e. simplify) reality to make observations and guesses for the future.\n
          \n
          > Why would that be worth saying in response to the OP?\n
          \n
          I feel like a lot of leftists think that understanding economics starts and ends with “capitalists exploit the labouring class”, while not actually engaging with the subject matter. I guess most can’t even explain LTV properly before getting mad at capitalists.\n
          \n
          As I’ve written before: I agree with most conclusions of marxist analysis that I know and I probably don’t even know half of them. But I think that political analysis should use LTV as a tool to understand the world and not the end of socio-economical disgussion (because that would ignore important parts of today’s economy).\n
          \n
          > It really just seems like you disagree with the ‘your stolen labor value’ claim in the OP, and are attributing it to the ‘labor theory of value’\n
          \n
          I don’t. I wanted to remind people as to make political analysis not too easy by taking the mental shortcut of reducing current capitalism on the problems pointed out by Marx rendition of LTV.\n
          \n
          > (as opposed to dismissing it because you disagree with some portion of the theory you’ve neglected to mention)\n
          \n
          I don’t disagree. I also don’t disagree with the atomic model of Niels Bohr when it comes to calculating electron potential. When it comes to observing e.g. electron spin, that particular model will probably fall flat. That doesn’t mean I “disagree” with the model, though.\n
          \n
          > My hunch is that you don’t feel confident enough in your understanding to make any kind of firm claim and are just dancing around making vague gestures toward ‘labor’ and ‘value’ definitions as a way of avoiding it.\n
          \n
          I’m not too confident in my economic knowledge, true. But I *am* quite confident in how models should be used in soft sciences.\n
          \n
          Addendum: I’d like to kindly ask you to give me a little bit of benefit of the doubt. Otherwise, I’ll just disengage due to that accusatory tone I’m getting from you being a bit exhausting.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701985632 {#2090
          date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2140 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2133 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2131 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2138 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2345 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2330 …}
        -id: 208351
        -bodyTs: "'accusatori':392 'actual':92 'addendum':365 'agre':118 'also':259 'analysi':124,143,212 'aren':37 'around':326 'ask':371 'atom':265 'attribut':192 'avoid':339 'benefit':380 'better':17 'bit':16,378,401 'bohr':269 'calcul':274 'capit':224 'capitalist':85,111 'claim':186,321 'class':89 'come':272,279 'conclus':121 'confid':310,345,355 'current':223 'd':367 'danc':325 'definit':334 'disagre':179,242,257,262,297 'disengag':388 'disguss':162 'dismiss':238 'doesn':293 'doubt':383 'due':389 'e.g':282 'easi':215 'econom':24,80,161,348 'economi':172 'electron':275,283 'end':83,157 'engag':93 'enough':311 'even':103,133 'exhaust':402 'explain':104 'explicit':33 'exploit':86 'fall':290 'feel':71,309 'firm':320 'flat':291 'futur':58 'gestur':329 'get':108,396 'give':374 'guess':55,99 'half':135 'hunch':303 'i.e':48 'ignor':166 'import':167 'kind':318,370 'know':127,134 'knowledg':349 'labor':184,196,331 'labour':88 'languag':4 'leftist':76 'like':72,177,368 'littl':377 'll':386 'lot':74 'ltv':105,146,234 'm':342,395 'mad':109 'make':52,210,316,327 'marx':231 'marxist':123 'matter':97 'mean':295 'mental':219 'mention':253 'model':27,36,47,266,287,300,358 'neglect':251 'neutral':3 'niel':268 'object':30,41 'observ':53,281 'op':69,189 'oppos':236 'otherwis':384 'part':168 'particular':286 'peopl':207 'point':228 'polit':142,211 'portion':245 'potenti':276 'probabl':130,289 'problem':227 'proper':106 'quit':354 're':44 'realiti':50 'realli':174 'reduc':222 'remind':206 'rendit':232 'respons':66 'say':22,64 'scienc':364 'seem':176 'shortcut':220 'simplifi':49 'socio':160 'socio-econom':159 'soft':363 'spin':284 'start':81 'stolen':183 'subject':96 'sudden':8 'take':217 'theori':25,197,248 'think':77,140 'though':301 'today':170 'tone':393 'tool':149 'toward':330 'tri':11,20 'true':31,350 'truth':42 'understand':79,151,314 'understood':14 'use':39,45,145,361 'vagu':328 'valu':185,199,333 've':114,250 'want':204 'way':337 'world':153 'worth':63 'would':60,165 'written':115 'yeah':35"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5489133"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703384328 {#2093
          date: 2023-12-24 03:18:48.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701985632 {#2092
          date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208351
      }
    ]
    -id: 20852
    -titleTs: "'enemi':3 'know':1"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1702038246
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemmy.ml/post/8990722"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701951846 {#2506
      date: 2023-12-07 13:24:06.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2461 …}
  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
  +body: "Where?"
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 2
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1701976885 {#2422
    date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
    "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
    "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2456 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2453 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2457 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2455 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2468 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2469 …}
  -id: 207782
  -bodyTs: ""
  +ranking: 0
  +commentCount: 0
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485802"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701976885 {#2462
    date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 207782
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
28 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2458
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2003 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2559 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2581 …}
    +slug: "Know-your-enemy"
    +title: "Know your enemy"
    +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/4e8abd58-e357-4836-88ce-d57b36597f6b.jpeg"
    +body: null
    +type: "image"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: true
    +commentCount: 76
    +favouriteCount: 676
    +score: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +sticky: false
    +lastActive: DateTime @1702111873 {#2346
      date: 2023-12-09 09:51:13.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2580 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2578 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2575 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2609 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2605 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2622 …}
    +children: [
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1604 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
          +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
          +image: null
          +parent: null
          +root: null
          +body: """
            Reminder that while the labour theory of value can be practical to understand certain aspects of society, it is still culturally biased and not “objectively” true.\n
            \n
            What creates value can only be answered in a cultural framework.
            """
          +lang: "en"
          +isAdult: false
          +favouriteCount: 12
          +score: 0
          +lastActive: DateTime @1703499828 {#1580
            date: 2023-12-25 11:23:48.0 +01:00
          }
          +ip: null
          +tags: null
          +mentions: [
            "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          ]
          +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1561 …}
          +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1564 …}
          +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1563 …}
          +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1565 …}
          +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1558 …}
          +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1557 …}
          -id: 206964
          -bodyTs: "'answer':33 'aspect':15 'bias':22 'certain':14 'creat':28 'cultur':21,36 'framework':37 'labour':5 'object':25 'practic':11 'remind':1 'societi':17 'still':20 'theori':6 'true':26 'understand':13 'valu':8,29"
          +ranking: 0
          +commentCount: 0
          +upVotes: 0
          +downVotes: 0
          +visibility: "visible             "
          +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5480766"
          +editedAt: null
          +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701964861 {#1550
            date: 2023-12-07 17:01:01.0 +01:00
          }
          +"title": 206964
        }
        +body: """
          You’re right. It’s *one* theory. There is however ongoing debate on which theory is “correct”.\n
          \n
          This vid explains it quite well and with Simpsons clips so the hour of video is bearable:\n
          \n
          [www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw)
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701971365 {#1621
          date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1596 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1702 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1683 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1680 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1686 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1692 …}
        -id: 207387
        -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':37 'bearabl':34 'clip':27 'correct':17 'debat':12 'explain':20 'hour':30 'howev':10 'one':6 'ongo':11 'quit':22 're':2 'right':3 'simpson':26 'theori':7,15 'vid':19 'video':32 'well':23 'www.youtube.com':36 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':35"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5483715"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701971365 {#1620
          date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207387
      }
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1721
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1726 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Umm… Thanks for that unnecessarily aggressive seeming and a bit incompehensible addendum, I guess?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 4
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701975001 {#1723
          date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1728 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1730 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1734 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1727 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1733 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1724 …}
        -id: 207642
        -bodyTs: "'addendum':12 'aggress':6 'bit':10 'guess':14 'incompehens':11 'seem':7 'thank':2 'umm':1 'unnecessarili':5"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485206"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975001 {#1722
          date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207642
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1616
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1611 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          I was talking about the theory, not value. Sorry if that didn’t come across.\n
          \n
          Now that I think about it: isn’t value culturally determined in many things? Why are apple products more expensive than other computers with the same specs? Why is a ticket to a Billie Eilish concert more valuable than one to my neighbor’s indie rock band?
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701974894 {#1705
          date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1598 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1629 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1626 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1618 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1597 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1731 …}
        -id: 207637
        -bodyTs: "'across':15 'appl':32 'band':62 'billi':49 'come':14 'comput':38 'concert':51 'cultur':25 'determin':26 'didn':12 'eilish':50 'expens':35 'indi':60 'isn':22 'mani':28 'neighbor':58 'one':55 'product':33 'rock':61 'sorri':9 'spec':42 'talk':3 'theori':6 'thing':29 'think':19 'ticket':46 'valu':8,24 'valuabl':53"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485163"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701974894 {#1711
          date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207637
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1718
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1720 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          Sorry, I interpreted it as aggressive. Figuring out tone in text form is hard and all that. Sorry that I wrongly accused you.\n
          \n
          Things I didn’t get:\n
          \n
          > A reminder that the labour theory of value is not a marxist concept.\n
          \n
          Marx hasn’t been explicity brought up yet (at least not in my comment). Only implicitly in the original post. Again: thought you were attacking me and was like “umm… So what?”\n
          \n
          > When people wave their hands around and say “labor theory of value isn’t objectively true!!”, they’re shadowboxing a ghost.\n
          \n
          I thought you meant me, since that was what I was basically saying. 😅\n
          \n
          > Value != price\n
          \n
          Now, that one wasn’t even implicitly mentioned.\n
          \n
          I hope you don’t hold my misunderstanding against me.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 3
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701975943 {#1715
          date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1716 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1739 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1740 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2465 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2463 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2411 …}
        -id: 207711
        -bodyTs: "'accus':22 'aggress':6 'around':79 'attack':66 'basic':106 'brought':47 'comment':55 'concept':41 'didn':26 'even':115 'explic':46 'figur':7 'form':12 'get':28 'ghost':94 'hand':78 'hard':14 'hasn':43 'hold':123 'hope':119 'implicit':57,116 'interpret':3 'isn':86 'labor':82 'labour':33 'least':51 'like':70 'marx':42 'marxist':40 'meant':98 'mention':117 'misunderstand':125 'object':88 'one':112 'origin':60 'peopl':75 'post':61 'price':109 're':91 'remind':30 'say':81,107 'shadowbox':92 'sinc':100 'sorri':1,18 'text':11 'theori':34,83 'thing':24 'thought':63,96 'tone':9 'true':89 'umm':71 'valu':36,85,108 'wasn':113 'wave':76 'wrong':21 'yet':49"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485494"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975943 {#1714
          date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207711
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2458}
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2370 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Don’t the two correlate?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701977809 {#2471
          date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2377 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2359 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2364 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2380 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2382 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2384 …}
        -id: 207842
        -bodyTs: "'correl':5 'two':4"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486088"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977809 {#2371
          date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207842
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          > Well now i’m confused. If ‘labor theory of value isn’t objectively true’ isn’t making an argument about the price of a commodity not being equal to the labor it embodies, I am not sure what you’re trying to say by it.\n
          \n
          A theory o value doesn’t necessarily say anything about price. As you said: “value != price”.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701977944 {#2379
          date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1909 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1926 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1874 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1908 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1883 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2389 …}
        -id: 207854
        -bodyTs: "'anyth':54 'argument':19 'commod':25 'confus':5 'doesn':50 'embodi':33 'equal':28 'isn':11,15 'labor':7,31 'm':4 'make':17 'necessarili':52 'o':48 'object':13 'price':22,56,61 're':40 'said':59 'say':43,53 'sure':37 'theori':8,47 'tri':41 'true':14 'valu':10,49,60 'well':1"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486136"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373971 {#2381
          date: 2023-12-24 00:26:11.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977944 {#2383
          date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207854
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2030 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          As far as I understand: Price tries to measure value. Therefore: A price needs a value, but value doesn’t need price. They correlate but are not the same.\n
          \n
          Were am I making the mistake? Genuine question.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980069 {#1403
          date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2032 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2024 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2018 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2011 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2021 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2029 …}
        -id: 207987
        -bodyTs: "'correl':24 'doesn':19 'far':2 'genuin':36 'make':33 'measur':9 'mistak':35 'need':14,21 'price':6,13,22 'question':37 'therefor':11 'tri':7 'understand':5 'valu':10,16,18"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487031"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980069 {#2019
          date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207987
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2393 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          There’s not even academical consensus what value actually *is*, AFAIK. Do preasts add value to anything with their labour? If not: Do social counsellors? What if a priest acts as a counsellor? Ask different economists with their theories of value and you’ll get several answers.\n
          \n
          Economic theories aren’t as rigid as theories from the natural sciences or mathematics. They are dependent on the culture in which they are perceived. A non-capitalist society would have different theories or value (or none at all) than we do.\n
          \n
          [This guy can explain it properly](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw), I’m not an economist and kinda regret making that comment.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 6
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701979923 {#2387
          date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@JayDee@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1384 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1383 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1405 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1382 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1404 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1361 …}
        -id: 207981
        -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':99 'academ':5 'act':30 'actual':9 'add':14 'afaik':11 'answer':47 'anyth':17 'aren':50 'ask':34 'capitalist':76 'comment':110 'consensus':6 'counsellor':25,33 'cultur':67 'depend':64 'differ':35,80 'econom':48 'economist':36,104 'even':4 'explain':94 'get':45 'guy':92 'kinda':106 'labour':20 'll':44 'm':101 'make':108 'mathemat':61 'natur':58 'non':75 'non-capitalist':74 'none':85 'perceiv':72 'preast':13 'priest':29 'proper':96 'regret':107 'rigid':53 'scienc':59 'sever':46 'social':24 'societi':77 'theori':39,49,55,81 'valu':8,15,41,83 'would':78 'www.youtube.com':98 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':97"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486914"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373897 {#2392
          date: 2023-12-24 00:24:57.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701979923 {#2394
          date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207981
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2062 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "I wouldn’t have been able to write it this consise, but that’s kind of one thing I wanted to point towards in my original comment."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980622 {#2082
          date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2081 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2098 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2080 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2089 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2095 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2091 …}
        -id: 208044
        -bodyTs: "'abl':6 'comment':27 'consis':11 'kind':15 'one':17 'origin':26 'point':22 'thing':18 'toward':23 'want':20 'wouldn':2 'write':8"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487230"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980622 {#2085
          date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208044
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2035 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          It’s an economic theory and therefore more to be understood as a model on how economics work.\n
          \n
          The natural sciences have a hard core. The theory of gravity depends on how matter interacts in an objective, physical framework. Economic theories basically describe human interaction which are based on psychology and sociology. Therefore they depend on the societal context they are made in.\n
          \n
          If you understand them as models that are tools on how to understand the world, they become more useful in political analysis (I know we are in a meme community here, but everything is politics and so on and so on…).\n
          \n
          I do subscribe to many conclusions the labour theory of value and especially Marx came to. But I want y’all to *remember* that the theory is a mere tool for understanding and not a sacred, holy theory.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980460 {#2020
          date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2031 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2037 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2075 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2079 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2078 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2097 …}
        -id: 208027
        -bodyTs: "'analysi':85 'base':48 'basic':42 'becom':80 'came':119 'communiti':93 'conclus':110 'context':59 'core':25 'depend':30,55 'describ':43 'econom':4,17,40 'especi':117 'everyth':96 'framework':39 'graviti':29 'hard':24 'holi':141 'human':44 'interact':34,45 'know':87 'labour':112 'made':62 'mani':109 'marx':118 'matter':33 'meme':92 'mere':133 'model':14,69 'natur':20 'object':37 'physic':38 'polit':84,98 'psycholog':50 'rememb':127 'sacr':140 'scienc':21 'societ':58 'sociolog':52 'subscrib':107 'theori':5,27,41,113,130,142 'therefor':7,53 'tool':72,134 'understand':66,76,136 'understood':11 'use':82 'valu':115 'want':123 'work':18 'world':78 'y':124"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487165"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980460 {#2013
          date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208027
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2094
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2241 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          > Why the neutral language all of a sudden?\n
          \n
          I was trying to be understood a bit better.\n
          \n
          > Are you trying to say 'all economic theories and models are not objectively true"?\n
          \n
          Not explicitally, but yeah: models aren’t used for “objective truth”. They’re used to *model* (i.e. simplify) reality to make observations and guesses for the future.\n
          \n
          > Why would that be worth saying in response to the OP?\n
          \n
          I feel like a lot of leftists think that understanding economics starts and ends with “capitalists exploit the labouring class”, while not actually engaging with the subject matter. I guess most can’t even explain LTV properly before getting mad at capitalists.\n
          \n
          As I’ve written before: I agree with most conclusions of marxist analysis that I know and I probably don’t even know half of them. But I think that political analysis should use LTV as a tool to understand the world and not the end of socio-economical disgussion (because that would ignore important parts of today’s economy).\n
          \n
          > It really just seems like you disagree with the ‘your stolen labor value’ claim in the OP, and are attributing it to the ‘labor theory of value’\n
          \n
          I don’t. I wanted to remind people as to make political analysis not too easy by taking the mental shortcut of reducing current capitalism on the problems pointed out by Marx rendition of LTV.\n
          \n
          > (as opposed to dismissing it because you disagree with some portion of the theory you’ve neglected to mention)\n
          \n
          I don’t disagree. I also don’t disagree with the atomic model of Niels Bohr when it comes to calculating electron potential. When it comes to observing e.g. electron spin, that particular model will probably fall flat. That doesn’t mean I “disagree” with the model, though.\n
          \n
          > My hunch is that you don’t feel confident enough in your understanding to make any kind of firm claim and are just dancing around making vague gestures toward ‘labor’ and ‘value’ definitions as a way of avoiding it.\n
          \n
          I’m not too confident in my economic knowledge, true. But I *am* quite confident in how models should be used in soft sciences.\n
          \n
          Addendum: I’d like to kindly ask you to give me a little bit of benefit of the doubt. Otherwise, I’ll just disengage due to that accusatory tone I’m getting from you being a bit exhausting.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701985632 {#2090
          date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2140 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2133 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2131 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2138 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2345 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2330 …}
        -id: 208351
        -bodyTs: "'accusatori':392 'actual':92 'addendum':365 'agre':118 'also':259 'analysi':124,143,212 'aren':37 'around':326 'ask':371 'atom':265 'attribut':192 'avoid':339 'benefit':380 'better':17 'bit':16,378,401 'bohr':269 'calcul':274 'capit':224 'capitalist':85,111 'claim':186,321 'class':89 'come':272,279 'conclus':121 'confid':310,345,355 'current':223 'd':367 'danc':325 'definit':334 'disagre':179,242,257,262,297 'disengag':388 'disguss':162 'dismiss':238 'doesn':293 'doubt':383 'due':389 'e.g':282 'easi':215 'econom':24,80,161,348 'economi':172 'electron':275,283 'end':83,157 'engag':93 'enough':311 'even':103,133 'exhaust':402 'explain':104 'explicit':33 'exploit':86 'fall':290 'feel':71,309 'firm':320 'flat':291 'futur':58 'gestur':329 'get':108,396 'give':374 'guess':55,99 'half':135 'hunch':303 'i.e':48 'ignor':166 'import':167 'kind':318,370 'know':127,134 'knowledg':349 'labor':184,196,331 'labour':88 'languag':4 'leftist':76 'like':72,177,368 'littl':377 'll':386 'lot':74 'ltv':105,146,234 'm':342,395 'mad':109 'make':52,210,316,327 'marx':231 'marxist':123 'matter':97 'mean':295 'mental':219 'mention':253 'model':27,36,47,266,287,300,358 'neglect':251 'neutral':3 'niel':268 'object':30,41 'observ':53,281 'op':69,189 'oppos':236 'otherwis':384 'part':168 'particular':286 'peopl':207 'point':228 'polit':142,211 'portion':245 'potenti':276 'probabl':130,289 'problem':227 'proper':106 'quit':354 're':44 'realiti':50 'realli':174 'reduc':222 'remind':206 'rendit':232 'respons':66 'say':22,64 'scienc':364 'seem':176 'shortcut':220 'simplifi':49 'socio':160 'socio-econom':159 'soft':363 'spin':284 'start':81 'stolen':183 'subject':96 'sudden':8 'take':217 'theori':25,197,248 'think':77,140 'though':301 'today':170 'tone':393 'tool':149 'toward':330 'tri':11,20 'true':31,350 'truth':42 'understand':79,151,314 'understood':14 'use':39,45,145,361 'vagu':328 'valu':185,199,333 've':114,250 'want':204 'way':337 'world':153 'worth':63 'would':60,165 'written':115 'yeah':35"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5489133"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703384328 {#2093
          date: 2023-12-24 03:18:48.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701985632 {#2092
          date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208351
      }
    ]
    -id: 20852
    -titleTs: "'enemi':3 'know':1"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1702038246
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemmy.ml/post/8990722"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701951846 {#2506
      date: 2023-12-07 13:24:06.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2461 …}
  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
  +body: "Where?"
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 2
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1701976885 {#2422
    date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
    "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
    "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2456 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2453 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2457 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2455 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2468 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2469 …}
  -id: 207782
  -bodyTs: ""
  +ranking: 0
  +commentCount: 0
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485802"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701976885 {#2462
    date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 207782
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
29 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
30 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2003 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2559 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2581 …}
    +slug: "Know-your-enemy"
    +title: "Know your enemy"
    +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/4e8abd58-e357-4836-88ce-d57b36597f6b.jpeg"
    +body: null
    +type: "image"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: true
    +commentCount: 76
    +favouriteCount: 676
    +score: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +sticky: false
    +lastActive: DateTime @1702111873 {#2346
      date: 2023-12-09 09:51:13.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2580 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2578 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2575 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2609 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2605 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2622 …}
    +children: [
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1604 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
          +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
          +image: null
          +parent: null
          +root: null
          +body: """
            Reminder that while the labour theory of value can be practical to understand certain aspects of society, it is still culturally biased and not “objectively” true.\n
            \n
            What creates value can only be answered in a cultural framework.
            """
          +lang: "en"
          +isAdult: false
          +favouriteCount: 12
          +score: 0
          +lastActive: DateTime @1703499828 {#1580
            date: 2023-12-25 11:23:48.0 +01:00
          }
          +ip: null
          +tags: null
          +mentions: [
            "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          ]
          +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1561 …}
          +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1564 …}
          +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1563 …}
          +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1565 …}
          +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1558 …}
          +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1557 …}
          -id: 206964
          -bodyTs: "'answer':33 'aspect':15 'bias':22 'certain':14 'creat':28 'cultur':21,36 'framework':37 'labour':5 'object':25 'practic':11 'remind':1 'societi':17 'still':20 'theori':6 'true':26 'understand':13 'valu':8,29"
          +ranking: 0
          +commentCount: 0
          +upVotes: 0
          +downVotes: 0
          +visibility: "visible             "
          +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5480766"
          +editedAt: null
          +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701964861 {#1550
            date: 2023-12-07 17:01:01.0 +01:00
          }
          +"title": 206964
        }
        +body: """
          You’re right. It’s *one* theory. There is however ongoing debate on which theory is “correct”.\n
          \n
          This vid explains it quite well and with Simpsons clips so the hour of video is bearable:\n
          \n
          [www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw)
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701971365 {#1621
          date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1596 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1702 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1683 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1680 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1686 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1692 …}
        -id: 207387
        -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':37 'bearabl':34 'clip':27 'correct':17 'debat':12 'explain':20 'hour':30 'howev':10 'one':6 'ongo':11 'quit':22 're':2 'right':3 'simpson':26 'theori':7,15 'vid':19 'video':32 'well':23 'www.youtube.com':36 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':35"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5483715"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701971365 {#1620
          date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207387
      }
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1721
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1726 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Umm… Thanks for that unnecessarily aggressive seeming and a bit incompehensible addendum, I guess?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 4
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701975001 {#1723
          date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1728 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1730 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1734 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1727 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1733 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1724 …}
        -id: 207642
        -bodyTs: "'addendum':12 'aggress':6 'bit':10 'guess':14 'incompehens':11 'seem':7 'thank':2 'umm':1 'unnecessarili':5"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485206"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975001 {#1722
          date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207642
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1616
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1611 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          I was talking about the theory, not value. Sorry if that didn’t come across.\n
          \n
          Now that I think about it: isn’t value culturally determined in many things? Why are apple products more expensive than other computers with the same specs? Why is a ticket to a Billie Eilish concert more valuable than one to my neighbor’s indie rock band?
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701974894 {#1705
          date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1598 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1629 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1626 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1618 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1597 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1731 …}
        -id: 207637
        -bodyTs: "'across':15 'appl':32 'band':62 'billi':49 'come':14 'comput':38 'concert':51 'cultur':25 'determin':26 'didn':12 'eilish':50 'expens':35 'indi':60 'isn':22 'mani':28 'neighbor':58 'one':55 'product':33 'rock':61 'sorri':9 'spec':42 'talk':3 'theori':6 'thing':29 'think':19 'ticket':46 'valu':8,24 'valuabl':53"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485163"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701974894 {#1711
          date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207637
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1718
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1720 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          Sorry, I interpreted it as aggressive. Figuring out tone in text form is hard and all that. Sorry that I wrongly accused you.\n
          \n
          Things I didn’t get:\n
          \n
          > A reminder that the labour theory of value is not a marxist concept.\n
          \n
          Marx hasn’t been explicity brought up yet (at least not in my comment). Only implicitly in the original post. Again: thought you were attacking me and was like “umm… So what?”\n
          \n
          > When people wave their hands around and say “labor theory of value isn’t objectively true!!”, they’re shadowboxing a ghost.\n
          \n
          I thought you meant me, since that was what I was basically saying. 😅\n
          \n
          > Value != price\n
          \n
          Now, that one wasn’t even implicitly mentioned.\n
          \n
          I hope you don’t hold my misunderstanding against me.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 3
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701975943 {#1715
          date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1716 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1739 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1740 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2465 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2463 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2411 …}
        -id: 207711
        -bodyTs: "'accus':22 'aggress':6 'around':79 'attack':66 'basic':106 'brought':47 'comment':55 'concept':41 'didn':26 'even':115 'explic':46 'figur':7 'form':12 'get':28 'ghost':94 'hand':78 'hard':14 'hasn':43 'hold':123 'hope':119 'implicit':57,116 'interpret':3 'isn':86 'labor':82 'labour':33 'least':51 'like':70 'marx':42 'marxist':40 'meant':98 'mention':117 'misunderstand':125 'object':88 'one':112 'origin':60 'peopl':75 'post':61 'price':109 're':91 'remind':30 'say':81,107 'shadowbox':92 'sinc':100 'sorri':1,18 'text':11 'theori':34,83 'thing':24 'thought':63,96 'tone':9 'true':89 'umm':71 'valu':36,85,108 'wasn':113 'wave':76 'wrong':21 'yet':49"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485494"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975943 {#1714
          date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207711
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2458
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2461 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Where?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701976885 {#2422
          date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2456 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2453 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2457 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2455 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2468 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2469 …}
        -id: 207782
        -bodyTs: ""
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485802"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701976885 {#2462
          date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207782
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363}
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          > Well now i’m confused. If ‘labor theory of value isn’t objectively true’ isn’t making an argument about the price of a commodity not being equal to the labor it embodies, I am not sure what you’re trying to say by it.\n
          \n
          A theory o value doesn’t necessarily say anything about price. As you said: “value != price”.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701977944 {#2379
          date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1909 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1926 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1874 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1908 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1883 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2389 …}
        -id: 207854
        -bodyTs: "'anyth':54 'argument':19 'commod':25 'confus':5 'doesn':50 'embodi':33 'equal':28 'isn':11,15 'labor':7,31 'm':4 'make':17 'necessarili':52 'o':48 'object':13 'price':22,56,61 're':40 'said':59 'say':43,53 'sure':37 'theori':8,47 'tri':41 'true':14 'valu':10,49,60 'well':1"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486136"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373971 {#2381
          date: 2023-12-24 00:26:11.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977944 {#2383
          date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207854
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2030 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          As far as I understand: Price tries to measure value. Therefore: A price needs a value, but value doesn’t need price. They correlate but are not the same.\n
          \n
          Were am I making the mistake? Genuine question.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980069 {#1403
          date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2032 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2024 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2018 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2011 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2021 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2029 …}
        -id: 207987
        -bodyTs: "'correl':24 'doesn':19 'far':2 'genuin':36 'make':33 'measur':9 'mistak':35 'need':14,21 'price':6,13,22 'question':37 'therefor':11 'tri':7 'understand':5 'valu':10,16,18"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487031"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980069 {#2019
          date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207987
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2393 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          There’s not even academical consensus what value actually *is*, AFAIK. Do preasts add value to anything with their labour? If not: Do social counsellors? What if a priest acts as a counsellor? Ask different economists with their theories of value and you’ll get several answers.\n
          \n
          Economic theories aren’t as rigid as theories from the natural sciences or mathematics. They are dependent on the culture in which they are perceived. A non-capitalist society would have different theories or value (or none at all) than we do.\n
          \n
          [This guy can explain it properly](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw), I’m not an economist and kinda regret making that comment.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 6
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701979923 {#2387
          date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@JayDee@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1384 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1383 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1405 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1382 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1404 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1361 …}
        -id: 207981
        -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':99 'academ':5 'act':30 'actual':9 'add':14 'afaik':11 'answer':47 'anyth':17 'aren':50 'ask':34 'capitalist':76 'comment':110 'consensus':6 'counsellor':25,33 'cultur':67 'depend':64 'differ':35,80 'econom':48 'economist':36,104 'even':4 'explain':94 'get':45 'guy':92 'kinda':106 'labour':20 'll':44 'm':101 'make':108 'mathemat':61 'natur':58 'non':75 'non-capitalist':74 'none':85 'perceiv':72 'preast':13 'priest':29 'proper':96 'regret':107 'rigid':53 'scienc':59 'sever':46 'social':24 'societi':77 'theori':39,49,55,81 'valu':8,15,41,83 'would':78 'www.youtube.com':98 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':97"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486914"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373897 {#2392
          date: 2023-12-24 00:24:57.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701979923 {#2394
          date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207981
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2062 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "I wouldn’t have been able to write it this consise, but that’s kind of one thing I wanted to point towards in my original comment."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980622 {#2082
          date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2081 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2098 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2080 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2089 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2095 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2091 …}
        -id: 208044
        -bodyTs: "'abl':6 'comment':27 'consis':11 'kind':15 'one':17 'origin':26 'point':22 'thing':18 'toward':23 'want':20 'wouldn':2 'write':8"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487230"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980622 {#2085
          date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208044
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2035 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          It’s an economic theory and therefore more to be understood as a model on how economics work.\n
          \n
          The natural sciences have a hard core. The theory of gravity depends on how matter interacts in an objective, physical framework. Economic theories basically describe human interaction which are based on psychology and sociology. Therefore they depend on the societal context they are made in.\n
          \n
          If you understand them as models that are tools on how to understand the world, they become more useful in political analysis (I know we are in a meme community here, but everything is politics and so on and so on…).\n
          \n
          I do subscribe to many conclusions the labour theory of value and especially Marx came to. But I want y’all to *remember* that the theory is a mere tool for understanding and not a sacred, holy theory.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980460 {#2020
          date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2031 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2037 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2075 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2079 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2078 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2097 …}
        -id: 208027
        -bodyTs: "'analysi':85 'base':48 'basic':42 'becom':80 'came':119 'communiti':93 'conclus':110 'context':59 'core':25 'depend':30,55 'describ':43 'econom':4,17,40 'especi':117 'everyth':96 'framework':39 'graviti':29 'hard':24 'holi':141 'human':44 'interact':34,45 'know':87 'labour':112 'made':62 'mani':109 'marx':118 'matter':33 'meme':92 'mere':133 'model':14,69 'natur':20 'object':37 'physic':38 'polit':84,98 'psycholog':50 'rememb':127 'sacr':140 'scienc':21 'societ':58 'sociolog':52 'subscrib':107 'theori':5,27,41,113,130,142 'therefor':7,53 'tool':72,134 'understand':66,76,136 'understood':11 'use':82 'valu':115 'want':123 'work':18 'world':78 'y':124"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487165"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980460 {#2013
          date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208027
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2094
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2241 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          > Why the neutral language all of a sudden?\n
          \n
          I was trying to be understood a bit better.\n
          \n
          > Are you trying to say 'all economic theories and models are not objectively true"?\n
          \n
          Not explicitally, but yeah: models aren’t used for “objective truth”. They’re used to *model* (i.e. simplify) reality to make observations and guesses for the future.\n
          \n
          > Why would that be worth saying in response to the OP?\n
          \n
          I feel like a lot of leftists think that understanding economics starts and ends with “capitalists exploit the labouring class”, while not actually engaging with the subject matter. I guess most can’t even explain LTV properly before getting mad at capitalists.\n
          \n
          As I’ve written before: I agree with most conclusions of marxist analysis that I know and I probably don’t even know half of them. But I think that political analysis should use LTV as a tool to understand the world and not the end of socio-economical disgussion (because that would ignore important parts of today’s economy).\n
          \n
          > It really just seems like you disagree with the ‘your stolen labor value’ claim in the OP, and are attributing it to the ‘labor theory of value’\n
          \n
          I don’t. I wanted to remind people as to make political analysis not too easy by taking the mental shortcut of reducing current capitalism on the problems pointed out by Marx rendition of LTV.\n
          \n
          > (as opposed to dismissing it because you disagree with some portion of the theory you’ve neglected to mention)\n
          \n
          I don’t disagree. I also don’t disagree with the atomic model of Niels Bohr when it comes to calculating electron potential. When it comes to observing e.g. electron spin, that particular model will probably fall flat. That doesn’t mean I “disagree” with the model, though.\n
          \n
          > My hunch is that you don’t feel confident enough in your understanding to make any kind of firm claim and are just dancing around making vague gestures toward ‘labor’ and ‘value’ definitions as a way of avoiding it.\n
          \n
          I’m not too confident in my economic knowledge, true. But I *am* quite confident in how models should be used in soft sciences.\n
          \n
          Addendum: I’d like to kindly ask you to give me a little bit of benefit of the doubt. Otherwise, I’ll just disengage due to that accusatory tone I’m getting from you being a bit exhausting.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701985632 {#2090
          date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2140 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2133 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2131 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2138 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2345 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2330 …}
        -id: 208351
        -bodyTs: "'accusatori':392 'actual':92 'addendum':365 'agre':118 'also':259 'analysi':124,143,212 'aren':37 'around':326 'ask':371 'atom':265 'attribut':192 'avoid':339 'benefit':380 'better':17 'bit':16,378,401 'bohr':269 'calcul':274 'capit':224 'capitalist':85,111 'claim':186,321 'class':89 'come':272,279 'conclus':121 'confid':310,345,355 'current':223 'd':367 'danc':325 'definit':334 'disagre':179,242,257,262,297 'disengag':388 'disguss':162 'dismiss':238 'doesn':293 'doubt':383 'due':389 'e.g':282 'easi':215 'econom':24,80,161,348 'economi':172 'electron':275,283 'end':83,157 'engag':93 'enough':311 'even':103,133 'exhaust':402 'explain':104 'explicit':33 'exploit':86 'fall':290 'feel':71,309 'firm':320 'flat':291 'futur':58 'gestur':329 'get':108,396 'give':374 'guess':55,99 'half':135 'hunch':303 'i.e':48 'ignor':166 'import':167 'kind':318,370 'know':127,134 'knowledg':349 'labor':184,196,331 'labour':88 'languag':4 'leftist':76 'like':72,177,368 'littl':377 'll':386 'lot':74 'ltv':105,146,234 'm':342,395 'mad':109 'make':52,210,316,327 'marx':231 'marxist':123 'matter':97 'mean':295 'mental':219 'mention':253 'model':27,36,47,266,287,300,358 'neglect':251 'neutral':3 'niel':268 'object':30,41 'observ':53,281 'op':69,189 'oppos':236 'otherwis':384 'part':168 'particular':286 'peopl':207 'point':228 'polit':142,211 'portion':245 'potenti':276 'probabl':130,289 'problem':227 'proper':106 'quit':354 're':44 'realiti':50 'realli':174 'reduc':222 'remind':206 'rendit':232 'respons':66 'say':22,64 'scienc':364 'seem':176 'shortcut':220 'simplifi':49 'socio':160 'socio-econom':159 'soft':363 'spin':284 'start':81 'stolen':183 'subject':96 'sudden':8 'take':217 'theori':25,197,248 'think':77,140 'though':301 'today':170 'tone':393 'tool':149 'toward':330 'tri':11,20 'true':31,350 'truth':42 'understand':79,151,314 'understood':14 'use':39,45,145,361 'vagu':328 'valu':185,199,333 've':114,250 'want':204 'way':337 'world':153 'worth':63 'would':60,165 'written':115 'yeah':35"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5489133"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703384328 {#2093
          date: 2023-12-24 03:18:48.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701985632 {#2092
          date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208351
      }
    ]
    -id: 20852
    -titleTs: "'enemi':3 'know':1"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1702038246
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemmy.ml/post/8990722"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701951846 {#2506
      date: 2023-12-07 13:24:06.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2370 …}
  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
  +body: "Don’t the two correlate?"
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 1
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1701977809 {#2471
    date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
    "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
    "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
    "@archomrade@midwest.social"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2377 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2359 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2364 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2380 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2382 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2384 …}
  -id: 207842
  -bodyTs: "'correl':5 'two':4"
  +ranking: 0
  +commentCount: 0
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486088"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977809 {#2371
    date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 207842
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
31 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2003 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2559 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2581 …}
    +slug: "Know-your-enemy"
    +title: "Know your enemy"
    +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/4e8abd58-e357-4836-88ce-d57b36597f6b.jpeg"
    +body: null
    +type: "image"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: true
    +commentCount: 76
    +favouriteCount: 676
    +score: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +sticky: false
    +lastActive: DateTime @1702111873 {#2346
      date: 2023-12-09 09:51:13.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2580 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2578 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2575 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2609 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2605 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2622 …}
    +children: [
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1604 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
          +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
          +image: null
          +parent: null
          +root: null
          +body: """
            Reminder that while the labour theory of value can be practical to understand certain aspects of society, it is still culturally biased and not “objectively” true.\n
            \n
            What creates value can only be answered in a cultural framework.
            """
          +lang: "en"
          +isAdult: false
          +favouriteCount: 12
          +score: 0
          +lastActive: DateTime @1703499828 {#1580
            date: 2023-12-25 11:23:48.0 +01:00
          }
          +ip: null
          +tags: null
          +mentions: [
            "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          ]
          +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1561 …}
          +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1564 …}
          +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1563 …}
          +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1565 …}
          +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1558 …}
          +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1557 …}
          -id: 206964
          -bodyTs: "'answer':33 'aspect':15 'bias':22 'certain':14 'creat':28 'cultur':21,36 'framework':37 'labour':5 'object':25 'practic':11 'remind':1 'societi':17 'still':20 'theori':6 'true':26 'understand':13 'valu':8,29"
          +ranking: 0
          +commentCount: 0
          +upVotes: 0
          +downVotes: 0
          +visibility: "visible             "
          +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5480766"
          +editedAt: null
          +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701964861 {#1550
            date: 2023-12-07 17:01:01.0 +01:00
          }
          +"title": 206964
        }
        +body: """
          You’re right. It’s *one* theory. There is however ongoing debate on which theory is “correct”.\n
          \n
          This vid explains it quite well and with Simpsons clips so the hour of video is bearable:\n
          \n
          [www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw)
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701971365 {#1621
          date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1596 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1702 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1683 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1680 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1686 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1692 …}
        -id: 207387
        -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':37 'bearabl':34 'clip':27 'correct':17 'debat':12 'explain':20 'hour':30 'howev':10 'one':6 'ongo':11 'quit':22 're':2 'right':3 'simpson':26 'theori':7,15 'vid':19 'video':32 'well':23 'www.youtube.com':36 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':35"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5483715"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701971365 {#1620
          date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207387
      }
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1721
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1726 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Umm… Thanks for that unnecessarily aggressive seeming and a bit incompehensible addendum, I guess?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 4
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701975001 {#1723
          date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1728 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1730 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1734 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1727 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1733 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1724 …}
        -id: 207642
        -bodyTs: "'addendum':12 'aggress':6 'bit':10 'guess':14 'incompehens':11 'seem':7 'thank':2 'umm':1 'unnecessarili':5"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485206"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975001 {#1722
          date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207642
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1616
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1611 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          I was talking about the theory, not value. Sorry if that didn’t come across.\n
          \n
          Now that I think about it: isn’t value culturally determined in many things? Why are apple products more expensive than other computers with the same specs? Why is a ticket to a Billie Eilish concert more valuable than one to my neighbor’s indie rock band?
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701974894 {#1705
          date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1598 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1629 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1626 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1618 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1597 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1731 …}
        -id: 207637
        -bodyTs: "'across':15 'appl':32 'band':62 'billi':49 'come':14 'comput':38 'concert':51 'cultur':25 'determin':26 'didn':12 'eilish':50 'expens':35 'indi':60 'isn':22 'mani':28 'neighbor':58 'one':55 'product':33 'rock':61 'sorri':9 'spec':42 'talk':3 'theori':6 'thing':29 'think':19 'ticket':46 'valu':8,24 'valuabl':53"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485163"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701974894 {#1711
          date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207637
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1718
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1720 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          Sorry, I interpreted it as aggressive. Figuring out tone in text form is hard and all that. Sorry that I wrongly accused you.\n
          \n
          Things I didn’t get:\n
          \n
          > A reminder that the labour theory of value is not a marxist concept.\n
          \n
          Marx hasn’t been explicity brought up yet (at least not in my comment). Only implicitly in the original post. Again: thought you were attacking me and was like “umm… So what?”\n
          \n
          > When people wave their hands around and say “labor theory of value isn’t objectively true!!”, they’re shadowboxing a ghost.\n
          \n
          I thought you meant me, since that was what I was basically saying. 😅\n
          \n
          > Value != price\n
          \n
          Now, that one wasn’t even implicitly mentioned.\n
          \n
          I hope you don’t hold my misunderstanding against me.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 3
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701975943 {#1715
          date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1716 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1739 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1740 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2465 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2463 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2411 …}
        -id: 207711
        -bodyTs: "'accus':22 'aggress':6 'around':79 'attack':66 'basic':106 'brought':47 'comment':55 'concept':41 'didn':26 'even':115 'explic':46 'figur':7 'form':12 'get':28 'ghost':94 'hand':78 'hard':14 'hasn':43 'hold':123 'hope':119 'implicit':57,116 'interpret':3 'isn':86 'labor':82 'labour':33 'least':51 'like':70 'marx':42 'marxist':40 'meant':98 'mention':117 'misunderstand':125 'object':88 'one':112 'origin':60 'peopl':75 'post':61 'price':109 're':91 'remind':30 'say':81,107 'shadowbox':92 'sinc':100 'sorri':1,18 'text':11 'theori':34,83 'thing':24 'thought':63,96 'tone':9 'true':89 'umm':71 'valu':36,85,108 'wasn':113 'wave':76 'wrong':21 'yet':49"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485494"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975943 {#1714
          date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207711
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2458
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2461 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Where?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701976885 {#2422
          date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2456 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2453 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2457 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2455 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2468 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2469 …}
        -id: 207782
        -bodyTs: ""
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485802"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701976885 {#2462
          date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207782
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363}
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          > Well now i’m confused. If ‘labor theory of value isn’t objectively true’ isn’t making an argument about the price of a commodity not being equal to the labor it embodies, I am not sure what you’re trying to say by it.\n
          \n
          A theory o value doesn’t necessarily say anything about price. As you said: “value != price”.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701977944 {#2379
          date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1909 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1926 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1874 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1908 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1883 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2389 …}
        -id: 207854
        -bodyTs: "'anyth':54 'argument':19 'commod':25 'confus':5 'doesn':50 'embodi':33 'equal':28 'isn':11,15 'labor':7,31 'm':4 'make':17 'necessarili':52 'o':48 'object':13 'price':22,56,61 're':40 'said':59 'say':43,53 'sure':37 'theori':8,47 'tri':41 'true':14 'valu':10,49,60 'well':1"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486136"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373971 {#2381
          date: 2023-12-24 00:26:11.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977944 {#2383
          date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207854
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2030 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          As far as I understand: Price tries to measure value. Therefore: A price needs a value, but value doesn’t need price. They correlate but are not the same.\n
          \n
          Were am I making the mistake? Genuine question.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980069 {#1403
          date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2032 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2024 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2018 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2011 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2021 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2029 …}
        -id: 207987
        -bodyTs: "'correl':24 'doesn':19 'far':2 'genuin':36 'make':33 'measur':9 'mistak':35 'need':14,21 'price':6,13,22 'question':37 'therefor':11 'tri':7 'understand':5 'valu':10,16,18"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487031"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980069 {#2019
          date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207987
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2393 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          There’s not even academical consensus what value actually *is*, AFAIK. Do preasts add value to anything with their labour? If not: Do social counsellors? What if a priest acts as a counsellor? Ask different economists with their theories of value and you’ll get several answers.\n
          \n
          Economic theories aren’t as rigid as theories from the natural sciences or mathematics. They are dependent on the culture in which they are perceived. A non-capitalist society would have different theories or value (or none at all) than we do.\n
          \n
          [This guy can explain it properly](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw), I’m not an economist and kinda regret making that comment.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 6
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701979923 {#2387
          date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@JayDee@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1384 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1383 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1405 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1382 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1404 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1361 …}
        -id: 207981
        -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':99 'academ':5 'act':30 'actual':9 'add':14 'afaik':11 'answer':47 'anyth':17 'aren':50 'ask':34 'capitalist':76 'comment':110 'consensus':6 'counsellor':25,33 'cultur':67 'depend':64 'differ':35,80 'econom':48 'economist':36,104 'even':4 'explain':94 'get':45 'guy':92 'kinda':106 'labour':20 'll':44 'm':101 'make':108 'mathemat':61 'natur':58 'non':75 'non-capitalist':74 'none':85 'perceiv':72 'preast':13 'priest':29 'proper':96 'regret':107 'rigid':53 'scienc':59 'sever':46 'social':24 'societi':77 'theori':39,49,55,81 'valu':8,15,41,83 'would':78 'www.youtube.com':98 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':97"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486914"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373897 {#2392
          date: 2023-12-24 00:24:57.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701979923 {#2394
          date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207981
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2062 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "I wouldn’t have been able to write it this consise, but that’s kind of one thing I wanted to point towards in my original comment."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980622 {#2082
          date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2081 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2098 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2080 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2089 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2095 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2091 …}
        -id: 208044
        -bodyTs: "'abl':6 'comment':27 'consis':11 'kind':15 'one':17 'origin':26 'point':22 'thing':18 'toward':23 'want':20 'wouldn':2 'write':8"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487230"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980622 {#2085
          date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208044
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2035 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          It’s an economic theory and therefore more to be understood as a model on how economics work.\n
          \n
          The natural sciences have a hard core. The theory of gravity depends on how matter interacts in an objective, physical framework. Economic theories basically describe human interaction which are based on psychology and sociology. Therefore they depend on the societal context they are made in.\n
          \n
          If you understand them as models that are tools on how to understand the world, they become more useful in political analysis (I know we are in a meme community here, but everything is politics and so on and so on…).\n
          \n
          I do subscribe to many conclusions the labour theory of value and especially Marx came to. But I want y’all to *remember* that the theory is a mere tool for understanding and not a sacred, holy theory.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980460 {#2020
          date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2031 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2037 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2075 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2079 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2078 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2097 …}
        -id: 208027
        -bodyTs: "'analysi':85 'base':48 'basic':42 'becom':80 'came':119 'communiti':93 'conclus':110 'context':59 'core':25 'depend':30,55 'describ':43 'econom':4,17,40 'especi':117 'everyth':96 'framework':39 'graviti':29 'hard':24 'holi':141 'human':44 'interact':34,45 'know':87 'labour':112 'made':62 'mani':109 'marx':118 'matter':33 'meme':92 'mere':133 'model':14,69 'natur':20 'object':37 'physic':38 'polit':84,98 'psycholog':50 'rememb':127 'sacr':140 'scienc':21 'societ':58 'sociolog':52 'subscrib':107 'theori':5,27,41,113,130,142 'therefor':7,53 'tool':72,134 'understand':66,76,136 'understood':11 'use':82 'valu':115 'want':123 'work':18 'world':78 'y':124"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487165"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980460 {#2013
          date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208027
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2094
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2241 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          > Why the neutral language all of a sudden?\n
          \n
          I was trying to be understood a bit better.\n
          \n
          > Are you trying to say 'all economic theories and models are not objectively true"?\n
          \n
          Not explicitally, but yeah: models aren’t used for “objective truth”. They’re used to *model* (i.e. simplify) reality to make observations and guesses for the future.\n
          \n
          > Why would that be worth saying in response to the OP?\n
          \n
          I feel like a lot of leftists think that understanding economics starts and ends with “capitalists exploit the labouring class”, while not actually engaging with the subject matter. I guess most can’t even explain LTV properly before getting mad at capitalists.\n
          \n
          As I’ve written before: I agree with most conclusions of marxist analysis that I know and I probably don’t even know half of them. But I think that political analysis should use LTV as a tool to understand the world and not the end of socio-economical disgussion (because that would ignore important parts of today’s economy).\n
          \n
          > It really just seems like you disagree with the ‘your stolen labor value’ claim in the OP, and are attributing it to the ‘labor theory of value’\n
          \n
          I don’t. I wanted to remind people as to make political analysis not too easy by taking the mental shortcut of reducing current capitalism on the problems pointed out by Marx rendition of LTV.\n
          \n
          > (as opposed to dismissing it because you disagree with some portion of the theory you’ve neglected to mention)\n
          \n
          I don’t disagree. I also don’t disagree with the atomic model of Niels Bohr when it comes to calculating electron potential. When it comes to observing e.g. electron spin, that particular model will probably fall flat. That doesn’t mean I “disagree” with the model, though.\n
          \n
          > My hunch is that you don’t feel confident enough in your understanding to make any kind of firm claim and are just dancing around making vague gestures toward ‘labor’ and ‘value’ definitions as a way of avoiding it.\n
          \n
          I’m not too confident in my economic knowledge, true. But I *am* quite confident in how models should be used in soft sciences.\n
          \n
          Addendum: I’d like to kindly ask you to give me a little bit of benefit of the doubt. Otherwise, I’ll just disengage due to that accusatory tone I’m getting from you being a bit exhausting.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701985632 {#2090
          date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2140 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2133 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2131 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2138 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2345 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2330 …}
        -id: 208351
        -bodyTs: "'accusatori':392 'actual':92 'addendum':365 'agre':118 'also':259 'analysi':124,143,212 'aren':37 'around':326 'ask':371 'atom':265 'attribut':192 'avoid':339 'benefit':380 'better':17 'bit':16,378,401 'bohr':269 'calcul':274 'capit':224 'capitalist':85,111 'claim':186,321 'class':89 'come':272,279 'conclus':121 'confid':310,345,355 'current':223 'd':367 'danc':325 'definit':334 'disagre':179,242,257,262,297 'disengag':388 'disguss':162 'dismiss':238 'doesn':293 'doubt':383 'due':389 'e.g':282 'easi':215 'econom':24,80,161,348 'economi':172 'electron':275,283 'end':83,157 'engag':93 'enough':311 'even':103,133 'exhaust':402 'explain':104 'explicit':33 'exploit':86 'fall':290 'feel':71,309 'firm':320 'flat':291 'futur':58 'gestur':329 'get':108,396 'give':374 'guess':55,99 'half':135 'hunch':303 'i.e':48 'ignor':166 'import':167 'kind':318,370 'know':127,134 'knowledg':349 'labor':184,196,331 'labour':88 'languag':4 'leftist':76 'like':72,177,368 'littl':377 'll':386 'lot':74 'ltv':105,146,234 'm':342,395 'mad':109 'make':52,210,316,327 'marx':231 'marxist':123 'matter':97 'mean':295 'mental':219 'mention':253 'model':27,36,47,266,287,300,358 'neglect':251 'neutral':3 'niel':268 'object':30,41 'observ':53,281 'op':69,189 'oppos':236 'otherwis':384 'part':168 'particular':286 'peopl':207 'point':228 'polit':142,211 'portion':245 'potenti':276 'probabl':130,289 'problem':227 'proper':106 'quit':354 're':44 'realiti':50 'realli':174 'reduc':222 'remind':206 'rendit':232 'respons':66 'say':22,64 'scienc':364 'seem':176 'shortcut':220 'simplifi':49 'socio':160 'socio-econom':159 'soft':363 'spin':284 'start':81 'stolen':183 'subject':96 'sudden':8 'take':217 'theori':25,197,248 'think':77,140 'though':301 'today':170 'tone':393 'tool':149 'toward':330 'tri':11,20 'true':31,350 'truth':42 'understand':79,151,314 'understood':14 'use':39,45,145,361 'vagu':328 'valu':185,199,333 've':114,250 'want':204 'way':337 'world':153 'worth':63 'would':60,165 'written':115 'yeah':35"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5489133"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703384328 {#2093
          date: 2023-12-24 03:18:48.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701985632 {#2092
          date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208351
      }
    ]
    -id: 20852
    -titleTs: "'enemi':3 'know':1"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1702038246
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemmy.ml/post/8990722"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701951846 {#2506
      date: 2023-12-07 13:24:06.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2370 …}
  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
  +body: "Don’t the two correlate?"
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 1
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1701977809 {#2471
    date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
    "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
    "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
    "@archomrade@midwest.social"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2377 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2359 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2364 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2380 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2382 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2384 …}
  -id: 207842
  -bodyTs: "'correl':5 'two':4"
  +ranking: 0
  +commentCount: 0
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486088"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977809 {#2371
    date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 207842
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
32 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2003 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2559 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2581 …}
    +slug: "Know-your-enemy"
    +title: "Know your enemy"
    +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/4e8abd58-e357-4836-88ce-d57b36597f6b.jpeg"
    +body: null
    +type: "image"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: true
    +commentCount: 76
    +favouriteCount: 676
    +score: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +sticky: false
    +lastActive: DateTime @1702111873 {#2346
      date: 2023-12-09 09:51:13.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2580 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2578 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2575 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2609 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2605 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2622 …}
    +children: [
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1604 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
          +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
          +image: null
          +parent: null
          +root: null
          +body: """
            Reminder that while the labour theory of value can be practical to understand certain aspects of society, it is still culturally biased and not “objectively” true.\n
            \n
            What creates value can only be answered in a cultural framework.
            """
          +lang: "en"
          +isAdult: false
          +favouriteCount: 12
          +score: 0
          +lastActive: DateTime @1703499828 {#1580
            date: 2023-12-25 11:23:48.0 +01:00
          }
          +ip: null
          +tags: null
          +mentions: [
            "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          ]
          +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1561 …}
          +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1564 …}
          +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1563 …}
          +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1565 …}
          +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1558 …}
          +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1557 …}
          -id: 206964
          -bodyTs: "'answer':33 'aspect':15 'bias':22 'certain':14 'creat':28 'cultur':21,36 'framework':37 'labour':5 'object':25 'practic':11 'remind':1 'societi':17 'still':20 'theori':6 'true':26 'understand':13 'valu':8,29"
          +ranking: 0
          +commentCount: 0
          +upVotes: 0
          +downVotes: 0
          +visibility: "visible             "
          +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5480766"
          +editedAt: null
          +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701964861 {#1550
            date: 2023-12-07 17:01:01.0 +01:00
          }
          +"title": 206964
        }
        +body: """
          You’re right. It’s *one* theory. There is however ongoing debate on which theory is “correct”.\n
          \n
          This vid explains it quite well and with Simpsons clips so the hour of video is bearable:\n
          \n
          [www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw)
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701971365 {#1621
          date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1596 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1702 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1683 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1680 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1686 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1692 …}
        -id: 207387
        -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':37 'bearabl':34 'clip':27 'correct':17 'debat':12 'explain':20 'hour':30 'howev':10 'one':6 'ongo':11 'quit':22 're':2 'right':3 'simpson':26 'theori':7,15 'vid':19 'video':32 'well':23 'www.youtube.com':36 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':35"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5483715"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701971365 {#1620
          date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207387
      }
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1721
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1726 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Umm… Thanks for that unnecessarily aggressive seeming and a bit incompehensible addendum, I guess?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 4
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701975001 {#1723
          date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1728 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1730 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1734 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1727 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1733 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1724 …}
        -id: 207642
        -bodyTs: "'addendum':12 'aggress':6 'bit':10 'guess':14 'incompehens':11 'seem':7 'thank':2 'umm':1 'unnecessarili':5"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485206"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975001 {#1722
          date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207642
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1616
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1611 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          I was talking about the theory, not value. Sorry if that didn’t come across.\n
          \n
          Now that I think about it: isn’t value culturally determined in many things? Why are apple products more expensive than other computers with the same specs? Why is a ticket to a Billie Eilish concert more valuable than one to my neighbor’s indie rock band?
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701974894 {#1705
          date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1598 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1629 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1626 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1618 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1597 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1731 …}
        -id: 207637
        -bodyTs: "'across':15 'appl':32 'band':62 'billi':49 'come':14 'comput':38 'concert':51 'cultur':25 'determin':26 'didn':12 'eilish':50 'expens':35 'indi':60 'isn':22 'mani':28 'neighbor':58 'one':55 'product':33 'rock':61 'sorri':9 'spec':42 'talk':3 'theori':6 'thing':29 'think':19 'ticket':46 'valu':8,24 'valuabl':53"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485163"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701974894 {#1711
          date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207637
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1718
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1720 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          Sorry, I interpreted it as aggressive. Figuring out tone in text form is hard and all that. Sorry that I wrongly accused you.\n
          \n
          Things I didn’t get:\n
          \n
          > A reminder that the labour theory of value is not a marxist concept.\n
          \n
          Marx hasn’t been explicity brought up yet (at least not in my comment). Only implicitly in the original post. Again: thought you were attacking me and was like “umm… So what?”\n
          \n
          > When people wave their hands around and say “labor theory of value isn’t objectively true!!”, they’re shadowboxing a ghost.\n
          \n
          I thought you meant me, since that was what I was basically saying. 😅\n
          \n
          > Value != price\n
          \n
          Now, that one wasn’t even implicitly mentioned.\n
          \n
          I hope you don’t hold my misunderstanding against me.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 3
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701975943 {#1715
          date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1716 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1739 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1740 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2465 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2463 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2411 …}
        -id: 207711
        -bodyTs: "'accus':22 'aggress':6 'around':79 'attack':66 'basic':106 'brought':47 'comment':55 'concept':41 'didn':26 'even':115 'explic':46 'figur':7 'form':12 'get':28 'ghost':94 'hand':78 'hard':14 'hasn':43 'hold':123 'hope':119 'implicit':57,116 'interpret':3 'isn':86 'labor':82 'labour':33 'least':51 'like':70 'marx':42 'marxist':40 'meant':98 'mention':117 'misunderstand':125 'object':88 'one':112 'origin':60 'peopl':75 'post':61 'price':109 're':91 'remind':30 'say':81,107 'shadowbox':92 'sinc':100 'sorri':1,18 'text':11 'theori':34,83 'thing':24 'thought':63,96 'tone':9 'true':89 'umm':71 'valu':36,85,108 'wasn':113 'wave':76 'wrong':21 'yet':49"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485494"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975943 {#1714
          date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207711
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2458
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2461 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Where?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701976885 {#2422
          date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2456 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2453 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2457 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2455 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2468 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2469 …}
        -id: 207782
        -bodyTs: ""
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485802"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701976885 {#2462
          date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207782
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363}
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          > Well now i’m confused. If ‘labor theory of value isn’t objectively true’ isn’t making an argument about the price of a commodity not being equal to the labor it embodies, I am not sure what you’re trying to say by it.\n
          \n
          A theory o value doesn’t necessarily say anything about price. As you said: “value != price”.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701977944 {#2379
          date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1909 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1926 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1874 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1908 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1883 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2389 …}
        -id: 207854
        -bodyTs: "'anyth':54 'argument':19 'commod':25 'confus':5 'doesn':50 'embodi':33 'equal':28 'isn':11,15 'labor':7,31 'm':4 'make':17 'necessarili':52 'o':48 'object':13 'price':22,56,61 're':40 'said':59 'say':43,53 'sure':37 'theori':8,47 'tri':41 'true':14 'valu':10,49,60 'well':1"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486136"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373971 {#2381
          date: 2023-12-24 00:26:11.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977944 {#2383
          date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207854
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2030 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          As far as I understand: Price tries to measure value. Therefore: A price needs a value, but value doesn’t need price. They correlate but are not the same.\n
          \n
          Were am I making the mistake? Genuine question.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980069 {#1403
          date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2032 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2024 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2018 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2011 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2021 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2029 …}
        -id: 207987
        -bodyTs: "'correl':24 'doesn':19 'far':2 'genuin':36 'make':33 'measur':9 'mistak':35 'need':14,21 'price':6,13,22 'question':37 'therefor':11 'tri':7 'understand':5 'valu':10,16,18"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487031"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980069 {#2019
          date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207987
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2393 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          There’s not even academical consensus what value actually *is*, AFAIK. Do preasts add value to anything with their labour? If not: Do social counsellors? What if a priest acts as a counsellor? Ask different economists with their theories of value and you’ll get several answers.\n
          \n
          Economic theories aren’t as rigid as theories from the natural sciences or mathematics. They are dependent on the culture in which they are perceived. A non-capitalist society would have different theories or value (or none at all) than we do.\n
          \n
          [This guy can explain it properly](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw), I’m not an economist and kinda regret making that comment.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 6
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701979923 {#2387
          date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@JayDee@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1384 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1383 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1405 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1382 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1404 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1361 …}
        -id: 207981
        -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':99 'academ':5 'act':30 'actual':9 'add':14 'afaik':11 'answer':47 'anyth':17 'aren':50 'ask':34 'capitalist':76 'comment':110 'consensus':6 'counsellor':25,33 'cultur':67 'depend':64 'differ':35,80 'econom':48 'economist':36,104 'even':4 'explain':94 'get':45 'guy':92 'kinda':106 'labour':20 'll':44 'm':101 'make':108 'mathemat':61 'natur':58 'non':75 'non-capitalist':74 'none':85 'perceiv':72 'preast':13 'priest':29 'proper':96 'regret':107 'rigid':53 'scienc':59 'sever':46 'social':24 'societi':77 'theori':39,49,55,81 'valu':8,15,41,83 'would':78 'www.youtube.com':98 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':97"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486914"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373897 {#2392
          date: 2023-12-24 00:24:57.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701979923 {#2394
          date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207981
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2062 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "I wouldn’t have been able to write it this consise, but that’s kind of one thing I wanted to point towards in my original comment."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980622 {#2082
          date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2081 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2098 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2080 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2089 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2095 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2091 …}
        -id: 208044
        -bodyTs: "'abl':6 'comment':27 'consis':11 'kind':15 'one':17 'origin':26 'point':22 'thing':18 'toward':23 'want':20 'wouldn':2 'write':8"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487230"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980622 {#2085
          date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208044
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2035 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          It’s an economic theory and therefore more to be understood as a model on how economics work.\n
          \n
          The natural sciences have a hard core. The theory of gravity depends on how matter interacts in an objective, physical framework. Economic theories basically describe human interaction which are based on psychology and sociology. Therefore they depend on the societal context they are made in.\n
          \n
          If you understand them as models that are tools on how to understand the world, they become more useful in political analysis (I know we are in a meme community here, but everything is politics and so on and so on…).\n
          \n
          I do subscribe to many conclusions the labour theory of value and especially Marx came to. But I want y’all to *remember* that the theory is a mere tool for understanding and not a sacred, holy theory.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980460 {#2020
          date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2031 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2037 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2075 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2079 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2078 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2097 …}
        -id: 208027
        -bodyTs: "'analysi':85 'base':48 'basic':42 'becom':80 'came':119 'communiti':93 'conclus':110 'context':59 'core':25 'depend':30,55 'describ':43 'econom':4,17,40 'especi':117 'everyth':96 'framework':39 'graviti':29 'hard':24 'holi':141 'human':44 'interact':34,45 'know':87 'labour':112 'made':62 'mani':109 'marx':118 'matter':33 'meme':92 'mere':133 'model':14,69 'natur':20 'object':37 'physic':38 'polit':84,98 'psycholog':50 'rememb':127 'sacr':140 'scienc':21 'societ':58 'sociolog':52 'subscrib':107 'theori':5,27,41,113,130,142 'therefor':7,53 'tool':72,134 'understand':66,76,136 'understood':11 'use':82 'valu':115 'want':123 'work':18 'world':78 'y':124"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487165"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980460 {#2013
          date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208027
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2094
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2241 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          > Why the neutral language all of a sudden?\n
          \n
          I was trying to be understood a bit better.\n
          \n
          > Are you trying to say 'all economic theories and models are not objectively true"?\n
          \n
          Not explicitally, but yeah: models aren’t used for “objective truth”. They’re used to *model* (i.e. simplify) reality to make observations and guesses for the future.\n
          \n
          > Why would that be worth saying in response to the OP?\n
          \n
          I feel like a lot of leftists think that understanding economics starts and ends with “capitalists exploit the labouring class”, while not actually engaging with the subject matter. I guess most can’t even explain LTV properly before getting mad at capitalists.\n
          \n
          As I’ve written before: I agree with most conclusions of marxist analysis that I know and I probably don’t even know half of them. But I think that political analysis should use LTV as a tool to understand the world and not the end of socio-economical disgussion (because that would ignore important parts of today’s economy).\n
          \n
          > It really just seems like you disagree with the ‘your stolen labor value’ claim in the OP, and are attributing it to the ‘labor theory of value’\n
          \n
          I don’t. I wanted to remind people as to make political analysis not too easy by taking the mental shortcut of reducing current capitalism on the problems pointed out by Marx rendition of LTV.\n
          \n
          > (as opposed to dismissing it because you disagree with some portion of the theory you’ve neglected to mention)\n
          \n
          I don’t disagree. I also don’t disagree with the atomic model of Niels Bohr when it comes to calculating electron potential. When it comes to observing e.g. electron spin, that particular model will probably fall flat. That doesn’t mean I “disagree” with the model, though.\n
          \n
          > My hunch is that you don’t feel confident enough in your understanding to make any kind of firm claim and are just dancing around making vague gestures toward ‘labor’ and ‘value’ definitions as a way of avoiding it.\n
          \n
          I’m not too confident in my economic knowledge, true. But I *am* quite confident in how models should be used in soft sciences.\n
          \n
          Addendum: I’d like to kindly ask you to give me a little bit of benefit of the doubt. Otherwise, I’ll just disengage due to that accusatory tone I’m getting from you being a bit exhausting.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701985632 {#2090
          date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2140 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2133 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2131 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2138 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2345 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2330 …}
        -id: 208351
        -bodyTs: "'accusatori':392 'actual':92 'addendum':365 'agre':118 'also':259 'analysi':124,143,212 'aren':37 'around':326 'ask':371 'atom':265 'attribut':192 'avoid':339 'benefit':380 'better':17 'bit':16,378,401 'bohr':269 'calcul':274 'capit':224 'capitalist':85,111 'claim':186,321 'class':89 'come':272,279 'conclus':121 'confid':310,345,355 'current':223 'd':367 'danc':325 'definit':334 'disagre':179,242,257,262,297 'disengag':388 'disguss':162 'dismiss':238 'doesn':293 'doubt':383 'due':389 'e.g':282 'easi':215 'econom':24,80,161,348 'economi':172 'electron':275,283 'end':83,157 'engag':93 'enough':311 'even':103,133 'exhaust':402 'explain':104 'explicit':33 'exploit':86 'fall':290 'feel':71,309 'firm':320 'flat':291 'futur':58 'gestur':329 'get':108,396 'give':374 'guess':55,99 'half':135 'hunch':303 'i.e':48 'ignor':166 'import':167 'kind':318,370 'know':127,134 'knowledg':349 'labor':184,196,331 'labour':88 'languag':4 'leftist':76 'like':72,177,368 'littl':377 'll':386 'lot':74 'ltv':105,146,234 'm':342,395 'mad':109 'make':52,210,316,327 'marx':231 'marxist':123 'matter':97 'mean':295 'mental':219 'mention':253 'model':27,36,47,266,287,300,358 'neglect':251 'neutral':3 'niel':268 'object':30,41 'observ':53,281 'op':69,189 'oppos':236 'otherwis':384 'part':168 'particular':286 'peopl':207 'point':228 'polit':142,211 'portion':245 'potenti':276 'probabl':130,289 'problem':227 'proper':106 'quit':354 're':44 'realiti':50 'realli':174 'reduc':222 'remind':206 'rendit':232 'respons':66 'say':22,64 'scienc':364 'seem':176 'shortcut':220 'simplifi':49 'socio':160 'socio-econom':159 'soft':363 'spin':284 'start':81 'stolen':183 'subject':96 'sudden':8 'take':217 'theori':25,197,248 'think':77,140 'though':301 'today':170 'tone':393 'tool':149 'toward':330 'tri':11,20 'true':31,350 'truth':42 'understand':79,151,314 'understood':14 'use':39,45,145,361 'vagu':328 'valu':185,199,333 've':114,250 'want':204 'way':337 'world':153 'worth':63 'would':60,165 'written':115 'yeah':35"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5489133"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703384328 {#2093
          date: 2023-12-24 03:18:48.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701985632 {#2092
          date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208351
      }
    ]
    -id: 20852
    -titleTs: "'enemi':3 'know':1"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1702038246
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemmy.ml/post/8990722"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701951846 {#2506
      date: 2023-12-07 13:24:06.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2370 …}
  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
  +body: "Don’t the two correlate?"
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 1
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1701977809 {#2471
    date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
    "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
    "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
    "@archomrade@midwest.social"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2377 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2359 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2364 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2380 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2382 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2384 …}
  -id: 207842
  -bodyTs: "'correl':5 'two':4"
  +ranking: 0
  +commentCount: 0
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486088"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977809 {#2371
    date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 207842
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
33 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
34 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2003 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2559 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2581 …}
    +slug: "Know-your-enemy"
    +title: "Know your enemy"
    +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/4e8abd58-e357-4836-88ce-d57b36597f6b.jpeg"
    +body: null
    +type: "image"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: true
    +commentCount: 76
    +favouriteCount: 676
    +score: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +sticky: false
    +lastActive: DateTime @1702111873 {#2346
      date: 2023-12-09 09:51:13.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2580 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2578 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2575 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2609 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2605 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2622 …}
    +children: [
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1604 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
          +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
          +image: null
          +parent: null
          +root: null
          +body: """
            Reminder that while the labour theory of value can be practical to understand certain aspects of society, it is still culturally biased and not “objectively” true.\n
            \n
            What creates value can only be answered in a cultural framework.
            """
          +lang: "en"
          +isAdult: false
          +favouriteCount: 12
          +score: 0
          +lastActive: DateTime @1703499828 {#1580
            date: 2023-12-25 11:23:48.0 +01:00
          }
          +ip: null
          +tags: null
          +mentions: [
            "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          ]
          +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1561 …}
          +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1564 …}
          +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1563 …}
          +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1565 …}
          +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1558 …}
          +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1557 …}
          -id: 206964
          -bodyTs: "'answer':33 'aspect':15 'bias':22 'certain':14 'creat':28 'cultur':21,36 'framework':37 'labour':5 'object':25 'practic':11 'remind':1 'societi':17 'still':20 'theori':6 'true':26 'understand':13 'valu':8,29"
          +ranking: 0
          +commentCount: 0
          +upVotes: 0
          +downVotes: 0
          +visibility: "visible             "
          +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5480766"
          +editedAt: null
          +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701964861 {#1550
            date: 2023-12-07 17:01:01.0 +01:00
          }
          +"title": 206964
        }
        +body: """
          You’re right. It’s *one* theory. There is however ongoing debate on which theory is “correct”.\n
          \n
          This vid explains it quite well and with Simpsons clips so the hour of video is bearable:\n
          \n
          [www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw)
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701971365 {#1621
          date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1596 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1702 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1683 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1680 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1686 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1692 …}
        -id: 207387
        -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':37 'bearabl':34 'clip':27 'correct':17 'debat':12 'explain':20 'hour':30 'howev':10 'one':6 'ongo':11 'quit':22 're':2 'right':3 'simpson':26 'theori':7,15 'vid':19 'video':32 'well':23 'www.youtube.com':36 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':35"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5483715"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701971365 {#1620
          date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207387
      }
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1721
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1726 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Umm… Thanks for that unnecessarily aggressive seeming and a bit incompehensible addendum, I guess?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 4
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701975001 {#1723
          date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1728 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1730 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1734 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1727 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1733 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1724 …}
        -id: 207642
        -bodyTs: "'addendum':12 'aggress':6 'bit':10 'guess':14 'incompehens':11 'seem':7 'thank':2 'umm':1 'unnecessarili':5"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485206"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975001 {#1722
          date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207642
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1616
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1611 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          I was talking about the theory, not value. Sorry if that didn’t come across.\n
          \n
          Now that I think about it: isn’t value culturally determined in many things? Why are apple products more expensive than other computers with the same specs? Why is a ticket to a Billie Eilish concert more valuable than one to my neighbor’s indie rock band?
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701974894 {#1705
          date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1598 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1629 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1626 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1618 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1597 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1731 …}
        -id: 207637
        -bodyTs: "'across':15 'appl':32 'band':62 'billi':49 'come':14 'comput':38 'concert':51 'cultur':25 'determin':26 'didn':12 'eilish':50 'expens':35 'indi':60 'isn':22 'mani':28 'neighbor':58 'one':55 'product':33 'rock':61 'sorri':9 'spec':42 'talk':3 'theori':6 'thing':29 'think':19 'ticket':46 'valu':8,24 'valuabl':53"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485163"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701974894 {#1711
          date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207637
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1718
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1720 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          Sorry, I interpreted it as aggressive. Figuring out tone in text form is hard and all that. Sorry that I wrongly accused you.\n
          \n
          Things I didn’t get:\n
          \n
          > A reminder that the labour theory of value is not a marxist concept.\n
          \n
          Marx hasn’t been explicity brought up yet (at least not in my comment). Only implicitly in the original post. Again: thought you were attacking me and was like “umm… So what?”\n
          \n
          > When people wave their hands around and say “labor theory of value isn’t objectively true!!”, they’re shadowboxing a ghost.\n
          \n
          I thought you meant me, since that was what I was basically saying. 😅\n
          \n
          > Value != price\n
          \n
          Now, that one wasn’t even implicitly mentioned.\n
          \n
          I hope you don’t hold my misunderstanding against me.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 3
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701975943 {#1715
          date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1716 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1739 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1740 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2465 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2463 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2411 …}
        -id: 207711
        -bodyTs: "'accus':22 'aggress':6 'around':79 'attack':66 'basic':106 'brought':47 'comment':55 'concept':41 'didn':26 'even':115 'explic':46 'figur':7 'form':12 'get':28 'ghost':94 'hand':78 'hard':14 'hasn':43 'hold':123 'hope':119 'implicit':57,116 'interpret':3 'isn':86 'labor':82 'labour':33 'least':51 'like':70 'marx':42 'marxist':40 'meant':98 'mention':117 'misunderstand':125 'object':88 'one':112 'origin':60 'peopl':75 'post':61 'price':109 're':91 'remind':30 'say':81,107 'shadowbox':92 'sinc':100 'sorri':1,18 'text':11 'theori':34,83 'thing':24 'thought':63,96 'tone':9 'true':89 'umm':71 'valu':36,85,108 'wasn':113 'wave':76 'wrong':21 'yet':49"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485494"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975943 {#1714
          date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207711
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2458
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2461 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Where?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701976885 {#2422
          date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2456 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2453 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2457 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2455 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2468 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2469 …}
        -id: 207782
        -bodyTs: ""
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485802"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701976885 {#2462
          date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207782
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2370 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Don’t the two correlate?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701977809 {#2471
          date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2377 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2359 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2364 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2380 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2382 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2384 …}
        -id: 207842
        -bodyTs: "'correl':5 'two':4"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486088"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977809 {#2371
          date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207842
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910}
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2030 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          As far as I understand: Price tries to measure value. Therefore: A price needs a value, but value doesn’t need price. They correlate but are not the same.\n
          \n
          Were am I making the mistake? Genuine question.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980069 {#1403
          date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2032 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2024 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2018 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2011 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2021 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2029 …}
        -id: 207987
        -bodyTs: "'correl':24 'doesn':19 'far':2 'genuin':36 'make':33 'measur':9 'mistak':35 'need':14,21 'price':6,13,22 'question':37 'therefor':11 'tri':7 'understand':5 'valu':10,16,18"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487031"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980069 {#2019
          date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207987
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2393 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          There’s not even academical consensus what value actually *is*, AFAIK. Do preasts add value to anything with their labour? If not: Do social counsellors? What if a priest acts as a counsellor? Ask different economists with their theories of value and you’ll get several answers.\n
          \n
          Economic theories aren’t as rigid as theories from the natural sciences or mathematics. They are dependent on the culture in which they are perceived. A non-capitalist society would have different theories or value (or none at all) than we do.\n
          \n
          [This guy can explain it properly](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw), I’m not an economist and kinda regret making that comment.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 6
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701979923 {#2387
          date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@JayDee@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1384 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1383 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1405 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1382 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1404 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1361 …}
        -id: 207981
        -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':99 'academ':5 'act':30 'actual':9 'add':14 'afaik':11 'answer':47 'anyth':17 'aren':50 'ask':34 'capitalist':76 'comment':110 'consensus':6 'counsellor':25,33 'cultur':67 'depend':64 'differ':35,80 'econom':48 'economist':36,104 'even':4 'explain':94 'get':45 'guy':92 'kinda':106 'labour':20 'll':44 'm':101 'make':108 'mathemat':61 'natur':58 'non':75 'non-capitalist':74 'none':85 'perceiv':72 'preast':13 'priest':29 'proper':96 'regret':107 'rigid':53 'scienc':59 'sever':46 'social':24 'societi':77 'theori':39,49,55,81 'valu':8,15,41,83 'would':78 'www.youtube.com':98 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':97"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486914"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373897 {#2392
          date: 2023-12-24 00:24:57.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701979923 {#2394
          date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207981
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2062 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "I wouldn’t have been able to write it this consise, but that’s kind of one thing I wanted to point towards in my original comment."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980622 {#2082
          date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2081 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2098 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2080 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2089 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2095 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2091 …}
        -id: 208044
        -bodyTs: "'abl':6 'comment':27 'consis':11 'kind':15 'one':17 'origin':26 'point':22 'thing':18 'toward':23 'want':20 'wouldn':2 'write':8"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487230"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980622 {#2085
          date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208044
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2035 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          It’s an economic theory and therefore more to be understood as a model on how economics work.\n
          \n
          The natural sciences have a hard core. The theory of gravity depends on how matter interacts in an objective, physical framework. Economic theories basically describe human interaction which are based on psychology and sociology. Therefore they depend on the societal context they are made in.\n
          \n
          If you understand them as models that are tools on how to understand the world, they become more useful in political analysis (I know we are in a meme community here, but everything is politics and so on and so on…).\n
          \n
          I do subscribe to many conclusions the labour theory of value and especially Marx came to. But I want y’all to *remember* that the theory is a mere tool for understanding and not a sacred, holy theory.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980460 {#2020
          date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2031 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2037 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2075 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2079 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2078 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2097 …}
        -id: 208027
        -bodyTs: "'analysi':85 'base':48 'basic':42 'becom':80 'came':119 'communiti':93 'conclus':110 'context':59 'core':25 'depend':30,55 'describ':43 'econom':4,17,40 'especi':117 'everyth':96 'framework':39 'graviti':29 'hard':24 'holi':141 'human':44 'interact':34,45 'know':87 'labour':112 'made':62 'mani':109 'marx':118 'matter':33 'meme':92 'mere':133 'model':14,69 'natur':20 'object':37 'physic':38 'polit':84,98 'psycholog':50 'rememb':127 'sacr':140 'scienc':21 'societ':58 'sociolog':52 'subscrib':107 'theori':5,27,41,113,130,142 'therefor':7,53 'tool':72,134 'understand':66,76,136 'understood':11 'use':82 'valu':115 'want':123 'work':18 'world':78 'y':124"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487165"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980460 {#2013
          date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208027
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2094
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2241 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          > Why the neutral language all of a sudden?\n
          \n
          I was trying to be understood a bit better.\n
          \n
          > Are you trying to say 'all economic theories and models are not objectively true"?\n
          \n
          Not explicitally, but yeah: models aren’t used for “objective truth”. They’re used to *model* (i.e. simplify) reality to make observations and guesses for the future.\n
          \n
          > Why would that be worth saying in response to the OP?\n
          \n
          I feel like a lot of leftists think that understanding economics starts and ends with “capitalists exploit the labouring class”, while not actually engaging with the subject matter. I guess most can’t even explain LTV properly before getting mad at capitalists.\n
          \n
          As I’ve written before: I agree with most conclusions of marxist analysis that I know and I probably don’t even know half of them. But I think that political analysis should use LTV as a tool to understand the world and not the end of socio-economical disgussion (because that would ignore important parts of today’s economy).\n
          \n
          > It really just seems like you disagree with the ‘your stolen labor value’ claim in the OP, and are attributing it to the ‘labor theory of value’\n
          \n
          I don’t. I wanted to remind people as to make political analysis not too easy by taking the mental shortcut of reducing current capitalism on the problems pointed out by Marx rendition of LTV.\n
          \n
          > (as opposed to dismissing it because you disagree with some portion of the theory you’ve neglected to mention)\n
          \n
          I don’t disagree. I also don’t disagree with the atomic model of Niels Bohr when it comes to calculating electron potential. When it comes to observing e.g. electron spin, that particular model will probably fall flat. That doesn’t mean I “disagree” with the model, though.\n
          \n
          > My hunch is that you don’t feel confident enough in your understanding to make any kind of firm claim and are just dancing around making vague gestures toward ‘labor’ and ‘value’ definitions as a way of avoiding it.\n
          \n
          I’m not too confident in my economic knowledge, true. But I *am* quite confident in how models should be used in soft sciences.\n
          \n
          Addendum: I’d like to kindly ask you to give me a little bit of benefit of the doubt. Otherwise, I’ll just disengage due to that accusatory tone I’m getting from you being a bit exhausting.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701985632 {#2090
          date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2140 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2133 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2131 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2138 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2345 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2330 …}
        -id: 208351
        -bodyTs: "'accusatori':392 'actual':92 'addendum':365 'agre':118 'also':259 'analysi':124,143,212 'aren':37 'around':326 'ask':371 'atom':265 'attribut':192 'avoid':339 'benefit':380 'better':17 'bit':16,378,401 'bohr':269 'calcul':274 'capit':224 'capitalist':85,111 'claim':186,321 'class':89 'come':272,279 'conclus':121 'confid':310,345,355 'current':223 'd':367 'danc':325 'definit':334 'disagre':179,242,257,262,297 'disengag':388 'disguss':162 'dismiss':238 'doesn':293 'doubt':383 'due':389 'e.g':282 'easi':215 'econom':24,80,161,348 'economi':172 'electron':275,283 'end':83,157 'engag':93 'enough':311 'even':103,133 'exhaust':402 'explain':104 'explicit':33 'exploit':86 'fall':290 'feel':71,309 'firm':320 'flat':291 'futur':58 'gestur':329 'get':108,396 'give':374 'guess':55,99 'half':135 'hunch':303 'i.e':48 'ignor':166 'import':167 'kind':318,370 'know':127,134 'knowledg':349 'labor':184,196,331 'labour':88 'languag':4 'leftist':76 'like':72,177,368 'littl':377 'll':386 'lot':74 'ltv':105,146,234 'm':342,395 'mad':109 'make':52,210,316,327 'marx':231 'marxist':123 'matter':97 'mean':295 'mental':219 'mention':253 'model':27,36,47,266,287,300,358 'neglect':251 'neutral':3 'niel':268 'object':30,41 'observ':53,281 'op':69,189 'oppos':236 'otherwis':384 'part':168 'particular':286 'peopl':207 'point':228 'polit':142,211 'portion':245 'potenti':276 'probabl':130,289 'problem':227 'proper':106 'quit':354 're':44 'realiti':50 'realli':174 'reduc':222 'remind':206 'rendit':232 'respons':66 'say':22,64 'scienc':364 'seem':176 'shortcut':220 'simplifi':49 'socio':160 'socio-econom':159 'soft':363 'spin':284 'start':81 'stolen':183 'subject':96 'sudden':8 'take':217 'theori':25,197,248 'think':77,140 'though':301 'today':170 'tone':393 'tool':149 'toward':330 'tri':11,20 'true':31,350 'truth':42 'understand':79,151,314 'understood':14 'use':39,45,145,361 'vagu':328 'valu':185,199,333 've':114,250 'want':204 'way':337 'world':153 'worth':63 'would':60,165 'written':115 'yeah':35"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5489133"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703384328 {#2093
          date: 2023-12-24 03:18:48.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701985632 {#2092
          date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208351
      }
    ]
    -id: 20852
    -titleTs: "'enemi':3 'know':1"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1702038246
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemmy.ml/post/8990722"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701951846 {#2506
      date: 2023-12-07 13:24:06.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906 …}
  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
  +body: """
    > Well now i’m confused. If ‘labor theory of value isn’t objectively true’ isn’t making an argument about the price of a commodity not being equal to the labor it embodies, I am not sure what you’re trying to say by it.\n
    \n
    A theory o value doesn’t necessarily say anything about price. As you said: “value != price”.
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 1
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1701977944 {#2379
    date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
    "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
    "@archomrade@midwest.social"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1909 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1926 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1874 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1908 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1883 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2389 …}
  -id: 207854
  -bodyTs: "'anyth':54 'argument':19 'commod':25 'confus':5 'doesn':50 'embodi':33 'equal':28 'isn':11,15 'labor':7,31 'm':4 'make':17 'necessarili':52 'o':48 'object':13 'price':22,56,61 're':40 'said':59 'say':43,53 'sure':37 'theori':8,47 'tri':41 'true':14 'valu':10,49,60 'well':1"
  +ranking: 0
  +commentCount: 0
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486136"
  +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373971 {#2381
    date: 2023-12-24 00:26:11.0 +01:00
  }
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977944 {#2383
    date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 207854
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
35 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2003 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2559 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2581 …}
    +slug: "Know-your-enemy"
    +title: "Know your enemy"
    +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/4e8abd58-e357-4836-88ce-d57b36597f6b.jpeg"
    +body: null
    +type: "image"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: true
    +commentCount: 76
    +favouriteCount: 676
    +score: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +sticky: false
    +lastActive: DateTime @1702111873 {#2346
      date: 2023-12-09 09:51:13.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2580 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2578 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2575 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2609 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2605 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2622 …}
    +children: [
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1604 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
          +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
          +image: null
          +parent: null
          +root: null
          +body: """
            Reminder that while the labour theory of value can be practical to understand certain aspects of society, it is still culturally biased and not “objectively” true.\n
            \n
            What creates value can only be answered in a cultural framework.
            """
          +lang: "en"
          +isAdult: false
          +favouriteCount: 12
          +score: 0
          +lastActive: DateTime @1703499828 {#1580
            date: 2023-12-25 11:23:48.0 +01:00
          }
          +ip: null
          +tags: null
          +mentions: [
            "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          ]
          +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1561 …}
          +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1564 …}
          +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1563 …}
          +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1565 …}
          +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1558 …}
          +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1557 …}
          -id: 206964
          -bodyTs: "'answer':33 'aspect':15 'bias':22 'certain':14 'creat':28 'cultur':21,36 'framework':37 'labour':5 'object':25 'practic':11 'remind':1 'societi':17 'still':20 'theori':6 'true':26 'understand':13 'valu':8,29"
          +ranking: 0
          +commentCount: 0
          +upVotes: 0
          +downVotes: 0
          +visibility: "visible             "
          +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5480766"
          +editedAt: null
          +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701964861 {#1550
            date: 2023-12-07 17:01:01.0 +01:00
          }
          +"title": 206964
        }
        +body: """
          You’re right. It’s *one* theory. There is however ongoing debate on which theory is “correct”.\n
          \n
          This vid explains it quite well and with Simpsons clips so the hour of video is bearable:\n
          \n
          [www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw)
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701971365 {#1621
          date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1596 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1702 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1683 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1680 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1686 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1692 …}
        -id: 207387
        -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':37 'bearabl':34 'clip':27 'correct':17 'debat':12 'explain':20 'hour':30 'howev':10 'one':6 'ongo':11 'quit':22 're':2 'right':3 'simpson':26 'theori':7,15 'vid':19 'video':32 'well':23 'www.youtube.com':36 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':35"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5483715"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701971365 {#1620
          date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207387
      }
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1721
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1726 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Umm… Thanks for that unnecessarily aggressive seeming and a bit incompehensible addendum, I guess?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 4
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701975001 {#1723
          date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1728 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1730 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1734 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1727 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1733 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1724 …}
        -id: 207642
        -bodyTs: "'addendum':12 'aggress':6 'bit':10 'guess':14 'incompehens':11 'seem':7 'thank':2 'umm':1 'unnecessarili':5"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485206"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975001 {#1722
          date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207642
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1616
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1611 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          I was talking about the theory, not value. Sorry if that didn’t come across.\n
          \n
          Now that I think about it: isn’t value culturally determined in many things? Why are apple products more expensive than other computers with the same specs? Why is a ticket to a Billie Eilish concert more valuable than one to my neighbor’s indie rock band?
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701974894 {#1705
          date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1598 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1629 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1626 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1618 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1597 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1731 …}
        -id: 207637
        -bodyTs: "'across':15 'appl':32 'band':62 'billi':49 'come':14 'comput':38 'concert':51 'cultur':25 'determin':26 'didn':12 'eilish':50 'expens':35 'indi':60 'isn':22 'mani':28 'neighbor':58 'one':55 'product':33 'rock':61 'sorri':9 'spec':42 'talk':3 'theori':6 'thing':29 'think':19 'ticket':46 'valu':8,24 'valuabl':53"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485163"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701974894 {#1711
          date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207637
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1718
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1720 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          Sorry, I interpreted it as aggressive. Figuring out tone in text form is hard and all that. Sorry that I wrongly accused you.\n
          \n
          Things I didn’t get:\n
          \n
          > A reminder that the labour theory of value is not a marxist concept.\n
          \n
          Marx hasn’t been explicity brought up yet (at least not in my comment). Only implicitly in the original post. Again: thought you were attacking me and was like “umm… So what?”\n
          \n
          > When people wave their hands around and say “labor theory of value isn’t objectively true!!”, they’re shadowboxing a ghost.\n
          \n
          I thought you meant me, since that was what I was basically saying. 😅\n
          \n
          > Value != price\n
          \n
          Now, that one wasn’t even implicitly mentioned.\n
          \n
          I hope you don’t hold my misunderstanding against me.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 3
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701975943 {#1715
          date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1716 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1739 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1740 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2465 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2463 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2411 …}
        -id: 207711
        -bodyTs: "'accus':22 'aggress':6 'around':79 'attack':66 'basic':106 'brought':47 'comment':55 'concept':41 'didn':26 'even':115 'explic':46 'figur':7 'form':12 'get':28 'ghost':94 'hand':78 'hard':14 'hasn':43 'hold':123 'hope':119 'implicit':57,116 'interpret':3 'isn':86 'labor':82 'labour':33 'least':51 'like':70 'marx':42 'marxist':40 'meant':98 'mention':117 'misunderstand':125 'object':88 'one':112 'origin':60 'peopl':75 'post':61 'price':109 're':91 'remind':30 'say':81,107 'shadowbox':92 'sinc':100 'sorri':1,18 'text':11 'theori':34,83 'thing':24 'thought':63,96 'tone':9 'true':89 'umm':71 'valu':36,85,108 'wasn':113 'wave':76 'wrong':21 'yet':49"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485494"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975943 {#1714
          date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207711
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2458
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2461 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Where?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701976885 {#2422
          date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2456 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2453 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2457 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2455 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2468 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2469 …}
        -id: 207782
        -bodyTs: ""
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485802"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701976885 {#2462
          date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207782
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2370 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Don’t the two correlate?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701977809 {#2471
          date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2377 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2359 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2364 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2380 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2382 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2384 …}
        -id: 207842
        -bodyTs: "'correl':5 'two':4"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486088"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977809 {#2371
          date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207842
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910}
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2030 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          As far as I understand: Price tries to measure value. Therefore: A price needs a value, but value doesn’t need price. They correlate but are not the same.\n
          \n
          Were am I making the mistake? Genuine question.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980069 {#1403
          date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2032 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2024 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2018 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2011 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2021 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2029 …}
        -id: 207987
        -bodyTs: "'correl':24 'doesn':19 'far':2 'genuin':36 'make':33 'measur':9 'mistak':35 'need':14,21 'price':6,13,22 'question':37 'therefor':11 'tri':7 'understand':5 'valu':10,16,18"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487031"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980069 {#2019
          date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207987
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2393 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          There’s not even academical consensus what value actually *is*, AFAIK. Do preasts add value to anything with their labour? If not: Do social counsellors? What if a priest acts as a counsellor? Ask different economists with their theories of value and you’ll get several answers.\n
          \n
          Economic theories aren’t as rigid as theories from the natural sciences or mathematics. They are dependent on the culture in which they are perceived. A non-capitalist society would have different theories or value (or none at all) than we do.\n
          \n
          [This guy can explain it properly](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw), I’m not an economist and kinda regret making that comment.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 6
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701979923 {#2387
          date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@JayDee@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1384 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1383 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1405 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1382 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1404 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1361 …}
        -id: 207981
        -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':99 'academ':5 'act':30 'actual':9 'add':14 'afaik':11 'answer':47 'anyth':17 'aren':50 'ask':34 'capitalist':76 'comment':110 'consensus':6 'counsellor':25,33 'cultur':67 'depend':64 'differ':35,80 'econom':48 'economist':36,104 'even':4 'explain':94 'get':45 'guy':92 'kinda':106 'labour':20 'll':44 'm':101 'make':108 'mathemat':61 'natur':58 'non':75 'non-capitalist':74 'none':85 'perceiv':72 'preast':13 'priest':29 'proper':96 'regret':107 'rigid':53 'scienc':59 'sever':46 'social':24 'societi':77 'theori':39,49,55,81 'valu':8,15,41,83 'would':78 'www.youtube.com':98 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':97"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486914"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373897 {#2392
          date: 2023-12-24 00:24:57.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701979923 {#2394
          date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207981
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2062 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "I wouldn’t have been able to write it this consise, but that’s kind of one thing I wanted to point towards in my original comment."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980622 {#2082
          date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2081 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2098 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2080 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2089 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2095 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2091 …}
        -id: 208044
        -bodyTs: "'abl':6 'comment':27 'consis':11 'kind':15 'one':17 'origin':26 'point':22 'thing':18 'toward':23 'want':20 'wouldn':2 'write':8"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487230"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980622 {#2085
          date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208044
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2035 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          It’s an economic theory and therefore more to be understood as a model on how economics work.\n
          \n
          The natural sciences have a hard core. The theory of gravity depends on how matter interacts in an objective, physical framework. Economic theories basically describe human interaction which are based on psychology and sociology. Therefore they depend on the societal context they are made in.\n
          \n
          If you understand them as models that are tools on how to understand the world, they become more useful in political analysis (I know we are in a meme community here, but everything is politics and so on and so on…).\n
          \n
          I do subscribe to many conclusions the labour theory of value and especially Marx came to. But I want y’all to *remember* that the theory is a mere tool for understanding and not a sacred, holy theory.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980460 {#2020
          date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2031 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2037 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2075 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2079 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2078 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2097 …}
        -id: 208027
        -bodyTs: "'analysi':85 'base':48 'basic':42 'becom':80 'came':119 'communiti':93 'conclus':110 'context':59 'core':25 'depend':30,55 'describ':43 'econom':4,17,40 'especi':117 'everyth':96 'framework':39 'graviti':29 'hard':24 'holi':141 'human':44 'interact':34,45 'know':87 'labour':112 'made':62 'mani':109 'marx':118 'matter':33 'meme':92 'mere':133 'model':14,69 'natur':20 'object':37 'physic':38 'polit':84,98 'psycholog':50 'rememb':127 'sacr':140 'scienc':21 'societ':58 'sociolog':52 'subscrib':107 'theori':5,27,41,113,130,142 'therefor':7,53 'tool':72,134 'understand':66,76,136 'understood':11 'use':82 'valu':115 'want':123 'work':18 'world':78 'y':124"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487165"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980460 {#2013
          date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208027
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2094
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2241 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          > Why the neutral language all of a sudden?\n
          \n
          I was trying to be understood a bit better.\n
          \n
          > Are you trying to say 'all economic theories and models are not objectively true"?\n
          \n
          Not explicitally, but yeah: models aren’t used for “objective truth”. They’re used to *model* (i.e. simplify) reality to make observations and guesses for the future.\n
          \n
          > Why would that be worth saying in response to the OP?\n
          \n
          I feel like a lot of leftists think that understanding economics starts and ends with “capitalists exploit the labouring class”, while not actually engaging with the subject matter. I guess most can’t even explain LTV properly before getting mad at capitalists.\n
          \n
          As I’ve written before: I agree with most conclusions of marxist analysis that I know and I probably don’t even know half of them. But I think that political analysis should use LTV as a tool to understand the world and not the end of socio-economical disgussion (because that would ignore important parts of today’s economy).\n
          \n
          > It really just seems like you disagree with the ‘your stolen labor value’ claim in the OP, and are attributing it to the ‘labor theory of value’\n
          \n
          I don’t. I wanted to remind people as to make political analysis not too easy by taking the mental shortcut of reducing current capitalism on the problems pointed out by Marx rendition of LTV.\n
          \n
          > (as opposed to dismissing it because you disagree with some portion of the theory you’ve neglected to mention)\n
          \n
          I don’t disagree. I also don’t disagree with the atomic model of Niels Bohr when it comes to calculating electron potential. When it comes to observing e.g. electron spin, that particular model will probably fall flat. That doesn’t mean I “disagree” with the model, though.\n
          \n
          > My hunch is that you don’t feel confident enough in your understanding to make any kind of firm claim and are just dancing around making vague gestures toward ‘labor’ and ‘value’ definitions as a way of avoiding it.\n
          \n
          I’m not too confident in my economic knowledge, true. But I *am* quite confident in how models should be used in soft sciences.\n
          \n
          Addendum: I’d like to kindly ask you to give me a little bit of benefit of the doubt. Otherwise, I’ll just disengage due to that accusatory tone I’m getting from you being a bit exhausting.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701985632 {#2090
          date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2140 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2133 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2131 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2138 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2345 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2330 …}
        -id: 208351
        -bodyTs: "'accusatori':392 'actual':92 'addendum':365 'agre':118 'also':259 'analysi':124,143,212 'aren':37 'around':326 'ask':371 'atom':265 'attribut':192 'avoid':339 'benefit':380 'better':17 'bit':16,378,401 'bohr':269 'calcul':274 'capit':224 'capitalist':85,111 'claim':186,321 'class':89 'come':272,279 'conclus':121 'confid':310,345,355 'current':223 'd':367 'danc':325 'definit':334 'disagre':179,242,257,262,297 'disengag':388 'disguss':162 'dismiss':238 'doesn':293 'doubt':383 'due':389 'e.g':282 'easi':215 'econom':24,80,161,348 'economi':172 'electron':275,283 'end':83,157 'engag':93 'enough':311 'even':103,133 'exhaust':402 'explain':104 'explicit':33 'exploit':86 'fall':290 'feel':71,309 'firm':320 'flat':291 'futur':58 'gestur':329 'get':108,396 'give':374 'guess':55,99 'half':135 'hunch':303 'i.e':48 'ignor':166 'import':167 'kind':318,370 'know':127,134 'knowledg':349 'labor':184,196,331 'labour':88 'languag':4 'leftist':76 'like':72,177,368 'littl':377 'll':386 'lot':74 'ltv':105,146,234 'm':342,395 'mad':109 'make':52,210,316,327 'marx':231 'marxist':123 'matter':97 'mean':295 'mental':219 'mention':253 'model':27,36,47,266,287,300,358 'neglect':251 'neutral':3 'niel':268 'object':30,41 'observ':53,281 'op':69,189 'oppos':236 'otherwis':384 'part':168 'particular':286 'peopl':207 'point':228 'polit':142,211 'portion':245 'potenti':276 'probabl':130,289 'problem':227 'proper':106 'quit':354 're':44 'realiti':50 'realli':174 'reduc':222 'remind':206 'rendit':232 'respons':66 'say':22,64 'scienc':364 'seem':176 'shortcut':220 'simplifi':49 'socio':160 'socio-econom':159 'soft':363 'spin':284 'start':81 'stolen':183 'subject':96 'sudden':8 'take':217 'theori':25,197,248 'think':77,140 'though':301 'today':170 'tone':393 'tool':149 'toward':330 'tri':11,20 'true':31,350 'truth':42 'understand':79,151,314 'understood':14 'use':39,45,145,361 'vagu':328 'valu':185,199,333 've':114,250 'want':204 'way':337 'world':153 'worth':63 'would':60,165 'written':115 'yeah':35"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5489133"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703384328 {#2093
          date: 2023-12-24 03:18:48.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701985632 {#2092
          date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208351
      }
    ]
    -id: 20852
    -titleTs: "'enemi':3 'know':1"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1702038246
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemmy.ml/post/8990722"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701951846 {#2506
      date: 2023-12-07 13:24:06.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906 …}
  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
  +body: """
    > Well now i’m confused. If ‘labor theory of value isn’t objectively true’ isn’t making an argument about the price of a commodity not being equal to the labor it embodies, I am not sure what you’re trying to say by it.\n
    \n
    A theory o value doesn’t necessarily say anything about price. As you said: “value != price”.
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 1
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1701977944 {#2379
    date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
    "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
    "@archomrade@midwest.social"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1909 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1926 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1874 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1908 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1883 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2389 …}
  -id: 207854
  -bodyTs: "'anyth':54 'argument':19 'commod':25 'confus':5 'doesn':50 'embodi':33 'equal':28 'isn':11,15 'labor':7,31 'm':4 'make':17 'necessarili':52 'o':48 'object':13 'price':22,56,61 're':40 'said':59 'say':43,53 'sure':37 'theori':8,47 'tri':41 'true':14 'valu':10,49,60 'well':1"
  +ranking: 0
  +commentCount: 0
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486136"
  +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373971 {#2381
    date: 2023-12-24 00:26:11.0 +01:00
  }
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977944 {#2383
    date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 207854
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
36 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2003 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2559 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2581 …}
    +slug: "Know-your-enemy"
    +title: "Know your enemy"
    +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/4e8abd58-e357-4836-88ce-d57b36597f6b.jpeg"
    +body: null
    +type: "image"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: true
    +commentCount: 76
    +favouriteCount: 676
    +score: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +sticky: false
    +lastActive: DateTime @1702111873 {#2346
      date: 2023-12-09 09:51:13.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2580 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2578 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2575 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2609 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2605 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2622 …}
    +children: [
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1604 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
          +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
          +image: null
          +parent: null
          +root: null
          +body: """
            Reminder that while the labour theory of value can be practical to understand certain aspects of society, it is still culturally biased and not “objectively” true.\n
            \n
            What creates value can only be answered in a cultural framework.
            """
          +lang: "en"
          +isAdult: false
          +favouriteCount: 12
          +score: 0
          +lastActive: DateTime @1703499828 {#1580
            date: 2023-12-25 11:23:48.0 +01:00
          }
          +ip: null
          +tags: null
          +mentions: [
            "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          ]
          +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1561 …}
          +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1564 …}
          +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1563 …}
          +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1565 …}
          +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1558 …}
          +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1557 …}
          -id: 206964
          -bodyTs: "'answer':33 'aspect':15 'bias':22 'certain':14 'creat':28 'cultur':21,36 'framework':37 'labour':5 'object':25 'practic':11 'remind':1 'societi':17 'still':20 'theori':6 'true':26 'understand':13 'valu':8,29"
          +ranking: 0
          +commentCount: 0
          +upVotes: 0
          +downVotes: 0
          +visibility: "visible             "
          +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5480766"
          +editedAt: null
          +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701964861 {#1550
            date: 2023-12-07 17:01:01.0 +01:00
          }
          +"title": 206964
        }
        +body: """
          You’re right. It’s *one* theory. There is however ongoing debate on which theory is “correct”.\n
          \n
          This vid explains it quite well and with Simpsons clips so the hour of video is bearable:\n
          \n
          [www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw)
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701971365 {#1621
          date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1596 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1702 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1683 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1680 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1686 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1692 …}
        -id: 207387
        -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':37 'bearabl':34 'clip':27 'correct':17 'debat':12 'explain':20 'hour':30 'howev':10 'one':6 'ongo':11 'quit':22 're':2 'right':3 'simpson':26 'theori':7,15 'vid':19 'video':32 'well':23 'www.youtube.com':36 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':35"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5483715"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701971365 {#1620
          date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207387
      }
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1721
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1726 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Umm… Thanks for that unnecessarily aggressive seeming and a bit incompehensible addendum, I guess?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 4
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701975001 {#1723
          date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1728 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1730 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1734 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1727 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1733 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1724 …}
        -id: 207642
        -bodyTs: "'addendum':12 'aggress':6 'bit':10 'guess':14 'incompehens':11 'seem':7 'thank':2 'umm':1 'unnecessarili':5"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485206"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975001 {#1722
          date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207642
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1616
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1611 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          I was talking about the theory, not value. Sorry if that didn’t come across.\n
          \n
          Now that I think about it: isn’t value culturally determined in many things? Why are apple products more expensive than other computers with the same specs? Why is a ticket to a Billie Eilish concert more valuable than one to my neighbor’s indie rock band?
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701974894 {#1705
          date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1598 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1629 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1626 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1618 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1597 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1731 …}
        -id: 207637
        -bodyTs: "'across':15 'appl':32 'band':62 'billi':49 'come':14 'comput':38 'concert':51 'cultur':25 'determin':26 'didn':12 'eilish':50 'expens':35 'indi':60 'isn':22 'mani':28 'neighbor':58 'one':55 'product':33 'rock':61 'sorri':9 'spec':42 'talk':3 'theori':6 'thing':29 'think':19 'ticket':46 'valu':8,24 'valuabl':53"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485163"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701974894 {#1711
          date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207637
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1718
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1720 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          Sorry, I interpreted it as aggressive. Figuring out tone in text form is hard and all that. Sorry that I wrongly accused you.\n
          \n
          Things I didn’t get:\n
          \n
          > A reminder that the labour theory of value is not a marxist concept.\n
          \n
          Marx hasn’t been explicity brought up yet (at least not in my comment). Only implicitly in the original post. Again: thought you were attacking me and was like “umm… So what?”\n
          \n
          > When people wave their hands around and say “labor theory of value isn’t objectively true!!”, they’re shadowboxing a ghost.\n
          \n
          I thought you meant me, since that was what I was basically saying. 😅\n
          \n
          > Value != price\n
          \n
          Now, that one wasn’t even implicitly mentioned.\n
          \n
          I hope you don’t hold my misunderstanding against me.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 3
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701975943 {#1715
          date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1716 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1739 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1740 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2465 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2463 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2411 …}
        -id: 207711
        -bodyTs: "'accus':22 'aggress':6 'around':79 'attack':66 'basic':106 'brought':47 'comment':55 'concept':41 'didn':26 'even':115 'explic':46 'figur':7 'form':12 'get':28 'ghost':94 'hand':78 'hard':14 'hasn':43 'hold':123 'hope':119 'implicit':57,116 'interpret':3 'isn':86 'labor':82 'labour':33 'least':51 'like':70 'marx':42 'marxist':40 'meant':98 'mention':117 'misunderstand':125 'object':88 'one':112 'origin':60 'peopl':75 'post':61 'price':109 're':91 'remind':30 'say':81,107 'shadowbox':92 'sinc':100 'sorri':1,18 'text':11 'theori':34,83 'thing':24 'thought':63,96 'tone':9 'true':89 'umm':71 'valu':36,85,108 'wasn':113 'wave':76 'wrong':21 'yet':49"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485494"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975943 {#1714
          date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207711
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2458
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2461 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Where?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701976885 {#2422
          date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2456 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2453 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2457 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2455 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2468 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2469 …}
        -id: 207782
        -bodyTs: ""
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485802"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701976885 {#2462
          date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207782
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2370 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Don’t the two correlate?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701977809 {#2471
          date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2377 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2359 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2364 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2380 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2382 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2384 …}
        -id: 207842
        -bodyTs: "'correl':5 'two':4"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486088"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977809 {#2371
          date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207842
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910}
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2030 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          As far as I understand: Price tries to measure value. Therefore: A price needs a value, but value doesn’t need price. They correlate but are not the same.\n
          \n
          Were am I making the mistake? Genuine question.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980069 {#1403
          date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2032 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2024 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2018 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2011 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2021 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2029 …}
        -id: 207987
        -bodyTs: "'correl':24 'doesn':19 'far':2 'genuin':36 'make':33 'measur':9 'mistak':35 'need':14,21 'price':6,13,22 'question':37 'therefor':11 'tri':7 'understand':5 'valu':10,16,18"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487031"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980069 {#2019
          date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207987
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2393 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          There’s not even academical consensus what value actually *is*, AFAIK. Do preasts add value to anything with their labour? If not: Do social counsellors? What if a priest acts as a counsellor? Ask different economists with their theories of value and you’ll get several answers.\n
          \n
          Economic theories aren’t as rigid as theories from the natural sciences or mathematics. They are dependent on the culture in which they are perceived. A non-capitalist society would have different theories or value (or none at all) than we do.\n
          \n
          [This guy can explain it properly](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw), I’m not an economist and kinda regret making that comment.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 6
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701979923 {#2387
          date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@JayDee@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1384 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1383 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1405 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1382 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1404 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1361 …}
        -id: 207981
        -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':99 'academ':5 'act':30 'actual':9 'add':14 'afaik':11 'answer':47 'anyth':17 'aren':50 'ask':34 'capitalist':76 'comment':110 'consensus':6 'counsellor':25,33 'cultur':67 'depend':64 'differ':35,80 'econom':48 'economist':36,104 'even':4 'explain':94 'get':45 'guy':92 'kinda':106 'labour':20 'll':44 'm':101 'make':108 'mathemat':61 'natur':58 'non':75 'non-capitalist':74 'none':85 'perceiv':72 'preast':13 'priest':29 'proper':96 'regret':107 'rigid':53 'scienc':59 'sever':46 'social':24 'societi':77 'theori':39,49,55,81 'valu':8,15,41,83 'would':78 'www.youtube.com':98 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':97"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486914"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373897 {#2392
          date: 2023-12-24 00:24:57.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701979923 {#2394
          date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207981
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2062 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "I wouldn’t have been able to write it this consise, but that’s kind of one thing I wanted to point towards in my original comment."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980622 {#2082
          date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2081 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2098 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2080 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2089 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2095 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2091 …}
        -id: 208044
        -bodyTs: "'abl':6 'comment':27 'consis':11 'kind':15 'one':17 'origin':26 'point':22 'thing':18 'toward':23 'want':20 'wouldn':2 'write':8"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487230"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980622 {#2085
          date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208044
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2035 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          It’s an economic theory and therefore more to be understood as a model on how economics work.\n
          \n
          The natural sciences have a hard core. The theory of gravity depends on how matter interacts in an objective, physical framework. Economic theories basically describe human interaction which are based on psychology and sociology. Therefore they depend on the societal context they are made in.\n
          \n
          If you understand them as models that are tools on how to understand the world, they become more useful in political analysis (I know we are in a meme community here, but everything is politics and so on and so on…).\n
          \n
          I do subscribe to many conclusions the labour theory of value and especially Marx came to. But I want y’all to *remember* that the theory is a mere tool for understanding and not a sacred, holy theory.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980460 {#2020
          date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2031 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2037 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2075 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2079 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2078 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2097 …}
        -id: 208027
        -bodyTs: "'analysi':85 'base':48 'basic':42 'becom':80 'came':119 'communiti':93 'conclus':110 'context':59 'core':25 'depend':30,55 'describ':43 'econom':4,17,40 'especi':117 'everyth':96 'framework':39 'graviti':29 'hard':24 'holi':141 'human':44 'interact':34,45 'know':87 'labour':112 'made':62 'mani':109 'marx':118 'matter':33 'meme':92 'mere':133 'model':14,69 'natur':20 'object':37 'physic':38 'polit':84,98 'psycholog':50 'rememb':127 'sacr':140 'scienc':21 'societ':58 'sociolog':52 'subscrib':107 'theori':5,27,41,113,130,142 'therefor':7,53 'tool':72,134 'understand':66,76,136 'understood':11 'use':82 'valu':115 'want':123 'work':18 'world':78 'y':124"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487165"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980460 {#2013
          date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208027
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2094
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2241 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          > Why the neutral language all of a sudden?\n
          \n
          I was trying to be understood a bit better.\n
          \n
          > Are you trying to say 'all economic theories and models are not objectively true"?\n
          \n
          Not explicitally, but yeah: models aren’t used for “objective truth”. They’re used to *model* (i.e. simplify) reality to make observations and guesses for the future.\n
          \n
          > Why would that be worth saying in response to the OP?\n
          \n
          I feel like a lot of leftists think that understanding economics starts and ends with “capitalists exploit the labouring class”, while not actually engaging with the subject matter. I guess most can’t even explain LTV properly before getting mad at capitalists.\n
          \n
          As I’ve written before: I agree with most conclusions of marxist analysis that I know and I probably don’t even know half of them. But I think that political analysis should use LTV as a tool to understand the world and not the end of socio-economical disgussion (because that would ignore important parts of today’s economy).\n
          \n
          > It really just seems like you disagree with the ‘your stolen labor value’ claim in the OP, and are attributing it to the ‘labor theory of value’\n
          \n
          I don’t. I wanted to remind people as to make political analysis not too easy by taking the mental shortcut of reducing current capitalism on the problems pointed out by Marx rendition of LTV.\n
          \n
          > (as opposed to dismissing it because you disagree with some portion of the theory you’ve neglected to mention)\n
          \n
          I don’t disagree. I also don’t disagree with the atomic model of Niels Bohr when it comes to calculating electron potential. When it comes to observing e.g. electron spin, that particular model will probably fall flat. That doesn’t mean I “disagree” with the model, though.\n
          \n
          > My hunch is that you don’t feel confident enough in your understanding to make any kind of firm claim and are just dancing around making vague gestures toward ‘labor’ and ‘value’ definitions as a way of avoiding it.\n
          \n
          I’m not too confident in my economic knowledge, true. But I *am* quite confident in how models should be used in soft sciences.\n
          \n
          Addendum: I’d like to kindly ask you to give me a little bit of benefit of the doubt. Otherwise, I’ll just disengage due to that accusatory tone I’m getting from you being a bit exhausting.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701985632 {#2090
          date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2140 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2133 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2131 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2138 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2345 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2330 …}
        -id: 208351
        -bodyTs: "'accusatori':392 'actual':92 'addendum':365 'agre':118 'also':259 'analysi':124,143,212 'aren':37 'around':326 'ask':371 'atom':265 'attribut':192 'avoid':339 'benefit':380 'better':17 'bit':16,378,401 'bohr':269 'calcul':274 'capit':224 'capitalist':85,111 'claim':186,321 'class':89 'come':272,279 'conclus':121 'confid':310,345,355 'current':223 'd':367 'danc':325 'definit':334 'disagre':179,242,257,262,297 'disengag':388 'disguss':162 'dismiss':238 'doesn':293 'doubt':383 'due':389 'e.g':282 'easi':215 'econom':24,80,161,348 'economi':172 'electron':275,283 'end':83,157 'engag':93 'enough':311 'even':103,133 'exhaust':402 'explain':104 'explicit':33 'exploit':86 'fall':290 'feel':71,309 'firm':320 'flat':291 'futur':58 'gestur':329 'get':108,396 'give':374 'guess':55,99 'half':135 'hunch':303 'i.e':48 'ignor':166 'import':167 'kind':318,370 'know':127,134 'knowledg':349 'labor':184,196,331 'labour':88 'languag':4 'leftist':76 'like':72,177,368 'littl':377 'll':386 'lot':74 'ltv':105,146,234 'm':342,395 'mad':109 'make':52,210,316,327 'marx':231 'marxist':123 'matter':97 'mean':295 'mental':219 'mention':253 'model':27,36,47,266,287,300,358 'neglect':251 'neutral':3 'niel':268 'object':30,41 'observ':53,281 'op':69,189 'oppos':236 'otherwis':384 'part':168 'particular':286 'peopl':207 'point':228 'polit':142,211 'portion':245 'potenti':276 'probabl':130,289 'problem':227 'proper':106 'quit':354 're':44 'realiti':50 'realli':174 'reduc':222 'remind':206 'rendit':232 'respons':66 'say':22,64 'scienc':364 'seem':176 'shortcut':220 'simplifi':49 'socio':160 'socio-econom':159 'soft':363 'spin':284 'start':81 'stolen':183 'subject':96 'sudden':8 'take':217 'theori':25,197,248 'think':77,140 'though':301 'today':170 'tone':393 'tool':149 'toward':330 'tri':11,20 'true':31,350 'truth':42 'understand':79,151,314 'understood':14 'use':39,45,145,361 'vagu':328 'valu':185,199,333 've':114,250 'want':204 'way':337 'world':153 'worth':63 'would':60,165 'written':115 'yeah':35"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5489133"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703384328 {#2093
          date: 2023-12-24 03:18:48.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701985632 {#2092
          date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208351
      }
    ]
    -id: 20852
    -titleTs: "'enemi':3 'know':1"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1702038246
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemmy.ml/post/8990722"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701951846 {#2506
      date: 2023-12-07 13:24:06.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906 …}
  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
  +body: """
    > Well now i’m confused. If ‘labor theory of value isn’t objectively true’ isn’t making an argument about the price of a commodity not being equal to the labor it embodies, I am not sure what you’re trying to say by it.\n
    \n
    A theory o value doesn’t necessarily say anything about price. As you said: “value != price”.
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 1
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1701977944 {#2379
    date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
    "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
    "@archomrade@midwest.social"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1909 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1926 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1874 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1908 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1883 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2389 …}
  -id: 207854
  -bodyTs: "'anyth':54 'argument':19 'commod':25 'confus':5 'doesn':50 'embodi':33 'equal':28 'isn':11,15 'labor':7,31 'm':4 'make':17 'necessarili':52 'o':48 'object':13 'price':22,56,61 're':40 'said':59 'say':43,53 'sure':37 'theori':8,47 'tri':41 'true':14 'valu':10,49,60 'well':1"
  +ranking: 0
  +commentCount: 0
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486136"
  +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373971 {#2381
    date: 2023-12-24 00:26:11.0 +01:00
  }
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977944 {#2383
    date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 207854
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
37 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
38 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2003 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2559 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2581 …}
    +slug: "Know-your-enemy"
    +title: "Know your enemy"
    +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/4e8abd58-e357-4836-88ce-d57b36597f6b.jpeg"
    +body: null
    +type: "image"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: true
    +commentCount: 76
    +favouriteCount: 676
    +score: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +sticky: false
    +lastActive: DateTime @1702111873 {#2346
      date: 2023-12-09 09:51:13.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2580 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2578 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2575 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2609 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2605 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2622 …}
    +children: [
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1604 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
          +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
          +image: null
          +parent: null
          +root: null
          +body: """
            Reminder that while the labour theory of value can be practical to understand certain aspects of society, it is still culturally biased and not “objectively” true.\n
            \n
            What creates value can only be answered in a cultural framework.
            """
          +lang: "en"
          +isAdult: false
          +favouriteCount: 12
          +score: 0
          +lastActive: DateTime @1703499828 {#1580
            date: 2023-12-25 11:23:48.0 +01:00
          }
          +ip: null
          +tags: null
          +mentions: [
            "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          ]
          +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1561 …}
          +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1564 …}
          +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1563 …}
          +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1565 …}
          +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1558 …}
          +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1557 …}
          -id: 206964
          -bodyTs: "'answer':33 'aspect':15 'bias':22 'certain':14 'creat':28 'cultur':21,36 'framework':37 'labour':5 'object':25 'practic':11 'remind':1 'societi':17 'still':20 'theori':6 'true':26 'understand':13 'valu':8,29"
          +ranking: 0
          +commentCount: 0
          +upVotes: 0
          +downVotes: 0
          +visibility: "visible             "
          +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5480766"
          +editedAt: null
          +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701964861 {#1550
            date: 2023-12-07 17:01:01.0 +01:00
          }
          +"title": 206964
        }
        +body: """
          You’re right. It’s *one* theory. There is however ongoing debate on which theory is “correct”.\n
          \n
          This vid explains it quite well and with Simpsons clips so the hour of video is bearable:\n
          \n
          [www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw)
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701971365 {#1621
          date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1596 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1702 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1683 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1680 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1686 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1692 …}
        -id: 207387
        -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':37 'bearabl':34 'clip':27 'correct':17 'debat':12 'explain':20 'hour':30 'howev':10 'one':6 'ongo':11 'quit':22 're':2 'right':3 'simpson':26 'theori':7,15 'vid':19 'video':32 'well':23 'www.youtube.com':36 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':35"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5483715"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701971365 {#1620
          date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207387
      }
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1721
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1726 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Umm… Thanks for that unnecessarily aggressive seeming and a bit incompehensible addendum, I guess?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 4
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701975001 {#1723
          date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1728 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1730 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1734 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1727 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1733 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1724 …}
        -id: 207642
        -bodyTs: "'addendum':12 'aggress':6 'bit':10 'guess':14 'incompehens':11 'seem':7 'thank':2 'umm':1 'unnecessarili':5"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485206"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975001 {#1722
          date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207642
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1616
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1611 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          I was talking about the theory, not value. Sorry if that didn’t come across.\n
          \n
          Now that I think about it: isn’t value culturally determined in many things? Why are apple products more expensive than other computers with the same specs? Why is a ticket to a Billie Eilish concert more valuable than one to my neighbor’s indie rock band?
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701974894 {#1705
          date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1598 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1629 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1626 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1618 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1597 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1731 …}
        -id: 207637
        -bodyTs: "'across':15 'appl':32 'band':62 'billi':49 'come':14 'comput':38 'concert':51 'cultur':25 'determin':26 'didn':12 'eilish':50 'expens':35 'indi':60 'isn':22 'mani':28 'neighbor':58 'one':55 'product':33 'rock':61 'sorri':9 'spec':42 'talk':3 'theori':6 'thing':29 'think':19 'ticket':46 'valu':8,24 'valuabl':53"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485163"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701974894 {#1711
          date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207637
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1718
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1720 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          Sorry, I interpreted it as aggressive. Figuring out tone in text form is hard and all that. Sorry that I wrongly accused you.\n
          \n
          Things I didn’t get:\n
          \n
          > A reminder that the labour theory of value is not a marxist concept.\n
          \n
          Marx hasn’t been explicity brought up yet (at least not in my comment). Only implicitly in the original post. Again: thought you were attacking me and was like “umm… So what?”\n
          \n
          > When people wave their hands around and say “labor theory of value isn’t objectively true!!”, they’re shadowboxing a ghost.\n
          \n
          I thought you meant me, since that was what I was basically saying. 😅\n
          \n
          > Value != price\n
          \n
          Now, that one wasn’t even implicitly mentioned.\n
          \n
          I hope you don’t hold my misunderstanding against me.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 3
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701975943 {#1715
          date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1716 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1739 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1740 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2465 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2463 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2411 …}
        -id: 207711
        -bodyTs: "'accus':22 'aggress':6 'around':79 'attack':66 'basic':106 'brought':47 'comment':55 'concept':41 'didn':26 'even':115 'explic':46 'figur':7 'form':12 'get':28 'ghost':94 'hand':78 'hard':14 'hasn':43 'hold':123 'hope':119 'implicit':57,116 'interpret':3 'isn':86 'labor':82 'labour':33 'least':51 'like':70 'marx':42 'marxist':40 'meant':98 'mention':117 'misunderstand':125 'object':88 'one':112 'origin':60 'peopl':75 'post':61 'price':109 're':91 'remind':30 'say':81,107 'shadowbox':92 'sinc':100 'sorri':1,18 'text':11 'theori':34,83 'thing':24 'thought':63,96 'tone':9 'true':89 'umm':71 'valu':36,85,108 'wasn':113 'wave':76 'wrong':21 'yet':49"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485494"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975943 {#1714
          date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207711
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2458
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2461 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Where?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701976885 {#2422
          date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2456 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2453 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2457 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2455 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2468 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2469 …}
        -id: 207782
        -bodyTs: ""
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485802"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701976885 {#2462
          date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207782
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2370 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Don’t the two correlate?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701977809 {#2471
          date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2377 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2359 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2364 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2380 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2382 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2384 …}
        -id: 207842
        -bodyTs: "'correl':5 'two':4"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486088"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977809 {#2371
          date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207842
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          > Well now i’m confused. If ‘labor theory of value isn’t objectively true’ isn’t making an argument about the price of a commodity not being equal to the labor it embodies, I am not sure what you’re trying to say by it.\n
          \n
          A theory o value doesn’t necessarily say anything about price. As you said: “value != price”.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701977944 {#2379
          date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1909 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1926 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1874 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1908 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1883 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2389 …}
        -id: 207854
        -bodyTs: "'anyth':54 'argument':19 'commod':25 'confus':5 'doesn':50 'embodi':33 'equal':28 'isn':11,15 'labor':7,31 'm':4 'make':17 'necessarili':52 'o':48 'object':13 'price':22,56,61 're':40 'said':59 'say':43,53 'sure':37 'theori':8,47 'tri':41 'true':14 'valu':10,49,60 'well':1"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486136"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373971 {#2381
          date: 2023-12-24 00:26:11.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977944 {#2383
          date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207854
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023}
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2393 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          There’s not even academical consensus what value actually *is*, AFAIK. Do preasts add value to anything with their labour? If not: Do social counsellors? What if a priest acts as a counsellor? Ask different economists with their theories of value and you’ll get several answers.\n
          \n
          Economic theories aren’t as rigid as theories from the natural sciences or mathematics. They are dependent on the culture in which they are perceived. A non-capitalist society would have different theories or value (or none at all) than we do.\n
          \n
          [This guy can explain it properly](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw), I’m not an economist and kinda regret making that comment.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 6
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701979923 {#2387
          date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@JayDee@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1384 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1383 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1405 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1382 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1404 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1361 …}
        -id: 207981
        -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':99 'academ':5 'act':30 'actual':9 'add':14 'afaik':11 'answer':47 'anyth':17 'aren':50 'ask':34 'capitalist':76 'comment':110 'consensus':6 'counsellor':25,33 'cultur':67 'depend':64 'differ':35,80 'econom':48 'economist':36,104 'even':4 'explain':94 'get':45 'guy':92 'kinda':106 'labour':20 'll':44 'm':101 'make':108 'mathemat':61 'natur':58 'non':75 'non-capitalist':74 'none':85 'perceiv':72 'preast':13 'priest':29 'proper':96 'regret':107 'rigid':53 'scienc':59 'sever':46 'social':24 'societi':77 'theori':39,49,55,81 'valu':8,15,41,83 'would':78 'www.youtube.com':98 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':97"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486914"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373897 {#2392
          date: 2023-12-24 00:24:57.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701979923 {#2394
          date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207981
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2062 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "I wouldn’t have been able to write it this consise, but that’s kind of one thing I wanted to point towards in my original comment."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980622 {#2082
          date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2081 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2098 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2080 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2089 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2095 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2091 …}
        -id: 208044
        -bodyTs: "'abl':6 'comment':27 'consis':11 'kind':15 'one':17 'origin':26 'point':22 'thing':18 'toward':23 'want':20 'wouldn':2 'write':8"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487230"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980622 {#2085
          date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208044
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2035 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          It’s an economic theory and therefore more to be understood as a model on how economics work.\n
          \n
          The natural sciences have a hard core. The theory of gravity depends on how matter interacts in an objective, physical framework. Economic theories basically describe human interaction which are based on psychology and sociology. Therefore they depend on the societal context they are made in.\n
          \n
          If you understand them as models that are tools on how to understand the world, they become more useful in political analysis (I know we are in a meme community here, but everything is politics and so on and so on…).\n
          \n
          I do subscribe to many conclusions the labour theory of value and especially Marx came to. But I want y’all to *remember* that the theory is a mere tool for understanding and not a sacred, holy theory.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980460 {#2020
          date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2031 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2037 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2075 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2079 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2078 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2097 …}
        -id: 208027
        -bodyTs: "'analysi':85 'base':48 'basic':42 'becom':80 'came':119 'communiti':93 'conclus':110 'context':59 'core':25 'depend':30,55 'describ':43 'econom':4,17,40 'especi':117 'everyth':96 'framework':39 'graviti':29 'hard':24 'holi':141 'human':44 'interact':34,45 'know':87 'labour':112 'made':62 'mani':109 'marx':118 'matter':33 'meme':92 'mere':133 'model':14,69 'natur':20 'object':37 'physic':38 'polit':84,98 'psycholog':50 'rememb':127 'sacr':140 'scienc':21 'societ':58 'sociolog':52 'subscrib':107 'theori':5,27,41,113,130,142 'therefor':7,53 'tool':72,134 'understand':66,76,136 'understood':11 'use':82 'valu':115 'want':123 'work':18 'world':78 'y':124"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487165"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980460 {#2013
          date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208027
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2094
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2241 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          > Why the neutral language all of a sudden?\n
          \n
          I was trying to be understood a bit better.\n
          \n
          > Are you trying to say 'all economic theories and models are not objectively true"?\n
          \n
          Not explicitally, but yeah: models aren’t used for “objective truth”. They’re used to *model* (i.e. simplify) reality to make observations and guesses for the future.\n
          \n
          > Why would that be worth saying in response to the OP?\n
          \n
          I feel like a lot of leftists think that understanding economics starts and ends with “capitalists exploit the labouring class”, while not actually engaging with the subject matter. I guess most can’t even explain LTV properly before getting mad at capitalists.\n
          \n
          As I’ve written before: I agree with most conclusions of marxist analysis that I know and I probably don’t even know half of them. But I think that political analysis should use LTV as a tool to understand the world and not the end of socio-economical disgussion (because that would ignore important parts of today’s economy).\n
          \n
          > It really just seems like you disagree with the ‘your stolen labor value’ claim in the OP, and are attributing it to the ‘labor theory of value’\n
          \n
          I don’t. I wanted to remind people as to make political analysis not too easy by taking the mental shortcut of reducing current capitalism on the problems pointed out by Marx rendition of LTV.\n
          \n
          > (as opposed to dismissing it because you disagree with some portion of the theory you’ve neglected to mention)\n
          \n
          I don’t disagree. I also don’t disagree with the atomic model of Niels Bohr when it comes to calculating electron potential. When it comes to observing e.g. electron spin, that particular model will probably fall flat. That doesn’t mean I “disagree” with the model, though.\n
          \n
          > My hunch is that you don’t feel confident enough in your understanding to make any kind of firm claim and are just dancing around making vague gestures toward ‘labor’ and ‘value’ definitions as a way of avoiding it.\n
          \n
          I’m not too confident in my economic knowledge, true. But I *am* quite confident in how models should be used in soft sciences.\n
          \n
          Addendum: I’d like to kindly ask you to give me a little bit of benefit of the doubt. Otherwise, I’ll just disengage due to that accusatory tone I’m getting from you being a bit exhausting.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701985632 {#2090
          date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2140 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2133 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2131 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2138 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2345 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2330 …}
        -id: 208351
        -bodyTs: "'accusatori':392 'actual':92 'addendum':365 'agre':118 'also':259 'analysi':124,143,212 'aren':37 'around':326 'ask':371 'atom':265 'attribut':192 'avoid':339 'benefit':380 'better':17 'bit':16,378,401 'bohr':269 'calcul':274 'capit':224 'capitalist':85,111 'claim':186,321 'class':89 'come':272,279 'conclus':121 'confid':310,345,355 'current':223 'd':367 'danc':325 'definit':334 'disagre':179,242,257,262,297 'disengag':388 'disguss':162 'dismiss':238 'doesn':293 'doubt':383 'due':389 'e.g':282 'easi':215 'econom':24,80,161,348 'economi':172 'electron':275,283 'end':83,157 'engag':93 'enough':311 'even':103,133 'exhaust':402 'explain':104 'explicit':33 'exploit':86 'fall':290 'feel':71,309 'firm':320 'flat':291 'futur':58 'gestur':329 'get':108,396 'give':374 'guess':55,99 'half':135 'hunch':303 'i.e':48 'ignor':166 'import':167 'kind':318,370 'know':127,134 'knowledg':349 'labor':184,196,331 'labour':88 'languag':4 'leftist':76 'like':72,177,368 'littl':377 'll':386 'lot':74 'ltv':105,146,234 'm':342,395 'mad':109 'make':52,210,316,327 'marx':231 'marxist':123 'matter':97 'mean':295 'mental':219 'mention':253 'model':27,36,47,266,287,300,358 'neglect':251 'neutral':3 'niel':268 'object':30,41 'observ':53,281 'op':69,189 'oppos':236 'otherwis':384 'part':168 'particular':286 'peopl':207 'point':228 'polit':142,211 'portion':245 'potenti':276 'probabl':130,289 'problem':227 'proper':106 'quit':354 're':44 'realiti':50 'realli':174 'reduc':222 'remind':206 'rendit':232 'respons':66 'say':22,64 'scienc':364 'seem':176 'shortcut':220 'simplifi':49 'socio':160 'socio-econom':159 'soft':363 'spin':284 'start':81 'stolen':183 'subject':96 'sudden':8 'take':217 'theori':25,197,248 'think':77,140 'though':301 'today':170 'tone':393 'tool':149 'toward':330 'tri':11,20 'true':31,350 'truth':42 'understand':79,151,314 'understood':14 'use':39,45,145,361 'vagu':328 'valu':185,199,333 've':114,250 'want':204 'way':337 'world':153 'worth':63 'would':60,165 'written':115 'yeah':35"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5489133"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703384328 {#2093
          date: 2023-12-24 03:18:48.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701985632 {#2092
          date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208351
      }
    ]
    -id: 20852
    -titleTs: "'enemi':3 'know':1"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1702038246
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemmy.ml/post/8990722"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701951846 {#2506
      date: 2023-12-07 13:24:06.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2030 …}
  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
  +body: """
    As far as I understand: Price tries to measure value. Therefore: A price needs a value, but value doesn’t need price. They correlate but are not the same.\n
    \n
    Were am I making the mistake? Genuine question.
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 1
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1701980069 {#1403
    date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
    "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
    "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
    "@archomrade@midwest.social"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2032 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2024 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2018 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2011 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2021 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2029 …}
  -id: 207987
  -bodyTs: "'correl':24 'doesn':19 'far':2 'genuin':36 'make':33 'measur':9 'mistak':35 'need':14,21 'price':6,13,22 'question':37 'therefor':11 'tri':7 'understand':5 'valu':10,16,18"
  +ranking: 0
  +commentCount: 0
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487031"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980069 {#2019
    date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 207987
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
39 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2003 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2559 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2581 …}
    +slug: "Know-your-enemy"
    +title: "Know your enemy"
    +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/4e8abd58-e357-4836-88ce-d57b36597f6b.jpeg"
    +body: null
    +type: "image"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: true
    +commentCount: 76
    +favouriteCount: 676
    +score: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +sticky: false
    +lastActive: DateTime @1702111873 {#2346
      date: 2023-12-09 09:51:13.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2580 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2578 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2575 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2609 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2605 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2622 …}
    +children: [
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1604 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
          +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
          +image: null
          +parent: null
          +root: null
          +body: """
            Reminder that while the labour theory of value can be practical to understand certain aspects of society, it is still culturally biased and not “objectively” true.\n
            \n
            What creates value can only be answered in a cultural framework.
            """
          +lang: "en"
          +isAdult: false
          +favouriteCount: 12
          +score: 0
          +lastActive: DateTime @1703499828 {#1580
            date: 2023-12-25 11:23:48.0 +01:00
          }
          +ip: null
          +tags: null
          +mentions: [
            "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          ]
          +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1561 …}
          +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1564 …}
          +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1563 …}
          +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1565 …}
          +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1558 …}
          +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1557 …}
          -id: 206964
          -bodyTs: "'answer':33 'aspect':15 'bias':22 'certain':14 'creat':28 'cultur':21,36 'framework':37 'labour':5 'object':25 'practic':11 'remind':1 'societi':17 'still':20 'theori':6 'true':26 'understand':13 'valu':8,29"
          +ranking: 0
          +commentCount: 0
          +upVotes: 0
          +downVotes: 0
          +visibility: "visible             "
          +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5480766"
          +editedAt: null
          +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701964861 {#1550
            date: 2023-12-07 17:01:01.0 +01:00
          }
          +"title": 206964
        }
        +body: """
          You’re right. It’s *one* theory. There is however ongoing debate on which theory is “correct”.\n
          \n
          This vid explains it quite well and with Simpsons clips so the hour of video is bearable:\n
          \n
          [www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw)
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701971365 {#1621
          date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1596 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1702 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1683 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1680 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1686 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1692 …}
        -id: 207387
        -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':37 'bearabl':34 'clip':27 'correct':17 'debat':12 'explain':20 'hour':30 'howev':10 'one':6 'ongo':11 'quit':22 're':2 'right':3 'simpson':26 'theori':7,15 'vid':19 'video':32 'well':23 'www.youtube.com':36 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':35"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5483715"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701971365 {#1620
          date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207387
      }
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1721
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1726 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Umm… Thanks for that unnecessarily aggressive seeming and a bit incompehensible addendum, I guess?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 4
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701975001 {#1723
          date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1728 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1730 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1734 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1727 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1733 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1724 …}
        -id: 207642
        -bodyTs: "'addendum':12 'aggress':6 'bit':10 'guess':14 'incompehens':11 'seem':7 'thank':2 'umm':1 'unnecessarili':5"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485206"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975001 {#1722
          date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207642
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1616
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1611 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          I was talking about the theory, not value. Sorry if that didn’t come across.\n
          \n
          Now that I think about it: isn’t value culturally determined in many things? Why are apple products more expensive than other computers with the same specs? Why is a ticket to a Billie Eilish concert more valuable than one to my neighbor’s indie rock band?
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701974894 {#1705
          date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1598 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1629 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1626 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1618 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1597 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1731 …}
        -id: 207637
        -bodyTs: "'across':15 'appl':32 'band':62 'billi':49 'come':14 'comput':38 'concert':51 'cultur':25 'determin':26 'didn':12 'eilish':50 'expens':35 'indi':60 'isn':22 'mani':28 'neighbor':58 'one':55 'product':33 'rock':61 'sorri':9 'spec':42 'talk':3 'theori':6 'thing':29 'think':19 'ticket':46 'valu':8,24 'valuabl':53"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485163"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701974894 {#1711
          date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207637
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1718
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1720 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          Sorry, I interpreted it as aggressive. Figuring out tone in text form is hard and all that. Sorry that I wrongly accused you.\n
          \n
          Things I didn’t get:\n
          \n
          > A reminder that the labour theory of value is not a marxist concept.\n
          \n
          Marx hasn’t been explicity brought up yet (at least not in my comment). Only implicitly in the original post. Again: thought you were attacking me and was like “umm… So what?”\n
          \n
          > When people wave their hands around and say “labor theory of value isn’t objectively true!!”, they’re shadowboxing a ghost.\n
          \n
          I thought you meant me, since that was what I was basically saying. 😅\n
          \n
          > Value != price\n
          \n
          Now, that one wasn’t even implicitly mentioned.\n
          \n
          I hope you don’t hold my misunderstanding against me.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 3
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701975943 {#1715
          date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1716 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1739 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1740 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2465 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2463 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2411 …}
        -id: 207711
        -bodyTs: "'accus':22 'aggress':6 'around':79 'attack':66 'basic':106 'brought':47 'comment':55 'concept':41 'didn':26 'even':115 'explic':46 'figur':7 'form':12 'get':28 'ghost':94 'hand':78 'hard':14 'hasn':43 'hold':123 'hope':119 'implicit':57,116 'interpret':3 'isn':86 'labor':82 'labour':33 'least':51 'like':70 'marx':42 'marxist':40 'meant':98 'mention':117 'misunderstand':125 'object':88 'one':112 'origin':60 'peopl':75 'post':61 'price':109 're':91 'remind':30 'say':81,107 'shadowbox':92 'sinc':100 'sorri':1,18 'text':11 'theori':34,83 'thing':24 'thought':63,96 'tone':9 'true':89 'umm':71 'valu':36,85,108 'wasn':113 'wave':76 'wrong':21 'yet':49"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485494"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975943 {#1714
          date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207711
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2458
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2461 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Where?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701976885 {#2422
          date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2456 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2453 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2457 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2455 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2468 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2469 …}
        -id: 207782
        -bodyTs: ""
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485802"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701976885 {#2462
          date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207782
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2370 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Don’t the two correlate?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701977809 {#2471
          date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2377 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2359 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2364 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2380 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2382 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2384 …}
        -id: 207842
        -bodyTs: "'correl':5 'two':4"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486088"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977809 {#2371
          date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207842
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          > Well now i’m confused. If ‘labor theory of value isn’t objectively true’ isn’t making an argument about the price of a commodity not being equal to the labor it embodies, I am not sure what you’re trying to say by it.\n
          \n
          A theory o value doesn’t necessarily say anything about price. As you said: “value != price”.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701977944 {#2379
          date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1909 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1926 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1874 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1908 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1883 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2389 …}
        -id: 207854
        -bodyTs: "'anyth':54 'argument':19 'commod':25 'confus':5 'doesn':50 'embodi':33 'equal':28 'isn':11,15 'labor':7,31 'm':4 'make':17 'necessarili':52 'o':48 'object':13 'price':22,56,61 're':40 'said':59 'say':43,53 'sure':37 'theori':8,47 'tri':41 'true':14 'valu':10,49,60 'well':1"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486136"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373971 {#2381
          date: 2023-12-24 00:26:11.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977944 {#2383
          date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207854
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023}
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2393 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          There’s not even academical consensus what value actually *is*, AFAIK. Do preasts add value to anything with their labour? If not: Do social counsellors? What if a priest acts as a counsellor? Ask different economists with their theories of value and you’ll get several answers.\n
          \n
          Economic theories aren’t as rigid as theories from the natural sciences or mathematics. They are dependent on the culture in which they are perceived. A non-capitalist society would have different theories or value (or none at all) than we do.\n
          \n
          [This guy can explain it properly](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw), I’m not an economist and kinda regret making that comment.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 6
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701979923 {#2387
          date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@JayDee@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1384 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1383 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1405 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1382 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1404 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1361 …}
        -id: 207981
        -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':99 'academ':5 'act':30 'actual':9 'add':14 'afaik':11 'answer':47 'anyth':17 'aren':50 'ask':34 'capitalist':76 'comment':110 'consensus':6 'counsellor':25,33 'cultur':67 'depend':64 'differ':35,80 'econom':48 'economist':36,104 'even':4 'explain':94 'get':45 'guy':92 'kinda':106 'labour':20 'll':44 'm':101 'make':108 'mathemat':61 'natur':58 'non':75 'non-capitalist':74 'none':85 'perceiv':72 'preast':13 'priest':29 'proper':96 'regret':107 'rigid':53 'scienc':59 'sever':46 'social':24 'societi':77 'theori':39,49,55,81 'valu':8,15,41,83 'would':78 'www.youtube.com':98 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':97"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486914"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373897 {#2392
          date: 2023-12-24 00:24:57.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701979923 {#2394
          date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207981
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2062 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "I wouldn’t have been able to write it this consise, but that’s kind of one thing I wanted to point towards in my original comment."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980622 {#2082
          date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2081 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2098 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2080 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2089 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2095 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2091 …}
        -id: 208044
        -bodyTs: "'abl':6 'comment':27 'consis':11 'kind':15 'one':17 'origin':26 'point':22 'thing':18 'toward':23 'want':20 'wouldn':2 'write':8"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487230"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980622 {#2085
          date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208044
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2035 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          It’s an economic theory and therefore more to be understood as a model on how economics work.\n
          \n
          The natural sciences have a hard core. The theory of gravity depends on how matter interacts in an objective, physical framework. Economic theories basically describe human interaction which are based on psychology and sociology. Therefore they depend on the societal context they are made in.\n
          \n
          If you understand them as models that are tools on how to understand the world, they become more useful in political analysis (I know we are in a meme community here, but everything is politics and so on and so on…).\n
          \n
          I do subscribe to many conclusions the labour theory of value and especially Marx came to. But I want y’all to *remember* that the theory is a mere tool for understanding and not a sacred, holy theory.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980460 {#2020
          date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2031 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2037 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2075 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2079 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2078 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2097 …}
        -id: 208027
        -bodyTs: "'analysi':85 'base':48 'basic':42 'becom':80 'came':119 'communiti':93 'conclus':110 'context':59 'core':25 'depend':30,55 'describ':43 'econom':4,17,40 'especi':117 'everyth':96 'framework':39 'graviti':29 'hard':24 'holi':141 'human':44 'interact':34,45 'know':87 'labour':112 'made':62 'mani':109 'marx':118 'matter':33 'meme':92 'mere':133 'model':14,69 'natur':20 'object':37 'physic':38 'polit':84,98 'psycholog':50 'rememb':127 'sacr':140 'scienc':21 'societ':58 'sociolog':52 'subscrib':107 'theori':5,27,41,113,130,142 'therefor':7,53 'tool':72,134 'understand':66,76,136 'understood':11 'use':82 'valu':115 'want':123 'work':18 'world':78 'y':124"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487165"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980460 {#2013
          date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208027
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2094
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2241 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          > Why the neutral language all of a sudden?\n
          \n
          I was trying to be understood a bit better.\n
          \n
          > Are you trying to say 'all economic theories and models are not objectively true"?\n
          \n
          Not explicitally, but yeah: models aren’t used for “objective truth”. They’re used to *model* (i.e. simplify) reality to make observations and guesses for the future.\n
          \n
          > Why would that be worth saying in response to the OP?\n
          \n
          I feel like a lot of leftists think that understanding economics starts and ends with “capitalists exploit the labouring class”, while not actually engaging with the subject matter. I guess most can’t even explain LTV properly before getting mad at capitalists.\n
          \n
          As I’ve written before: I agree with most conclusions of marxist analysis that I know and I probably don’t even know half of them. But I think that political analysis should use LTV as a tool to understand the world and not the end of socio-economical disgussion (because that would ignore important parts of today’s economy).\n
          \n
          > It really just seems like you disagree with the ‘your stolen labor value’ claim in the OP, and are attributing it to the ‘labor theory of value’\n
          \n
          I don’t. I wanted to remind people as to make political analysis not too easy by taking the mental shortcut of reducing current capitalism on the problems pointed out by Marx rendition of LTV.\n
          \n
          > (as opposed to dismissing it because you disagree with some portion of the theory you’ve neglected to mention)\n
          \n
          I don’t disagree. I also don’t disagree with the atomic model of Niels Bohr when it comes to calculating electron potential. When it comes to observing e.g. electron spin, that particular model will probably fall flat. That doesn’t mean I “disagree” with the model, though.\n
          \n
          > My hunch is that you don’t feel confident enough in your understanding to make any kind of firm claim and are just dancing around making vague gestures toward ‘labor’ and ‘value’ definitions as a way of avoiding it.\n
          \n
          I’m not too confident in my economic knowledge, true. But I *am* quite confident in how models should be used in soft sciences.\n
          \n
          Addendum: I’d like to kindly ask you to give me a little bit of benefit of the doubt. Otherwise, I’ll just disengage due to that accusatory tone I’m getting from you being a bit exhausting.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701985632 {#2090
          date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2140 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2133 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2131 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2138 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2345 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2330 …}
        -id: 208351
        -bodyTs: "'accusatori':392 'actual':92 'addendum':365 'agre':118 'also':259 'analysi':124,143,212 'aren':37 'around':326 'ask':371 'atom':265 'attribut':192 'avoid':339 'benefit':380 'better':17 'bit':16,378,401 'bohr':269 'calcul':274 'capit':224 'capitalist':85,111 'claim':186,321 'class':89 'come':272,279 'conclus':121 'confid':310,345,355 'current':223 'd':367 'danc':325 'definit':334 'disagre':179,242,257,262,297 'disengag':388 'disguss':162 'dismiss':238 'doesn':293 'doubt':383 'due':389 'e.g':282 'easi':215 'econom':24,80,161,348 'economi':172 'electron':275,283 'end':83,157 'engag':93 'enough':311 'even':103,133 'exhaust':402 'explain':104 'explicit':33 'exploit':86 'fall':290 'feel':71,309 'firm':320 'flat':291 'futur':58 'gestur':329 'get':108,396 'give':374 'guess':55,99 'half':135 'hunch':303 'i.e':48 'ignor':166 'import':167 'kind':318,370 'know':127,134 'knowledg':349 'labor':184,196,331 'labour':88 'languag':4 'leftist':76 'like':72,177,368 'littl':377 'll':386 'lot':74 'ltv':105,146,234 'm':342,395 'mad':109 'make':52,210,316,327 'marx':231 'marxist':123 'matter':97 'mean':295 'mental':219 'mention':253 'model':27,36,47,266,287,300,358 'neglect':251 'neutral':3 'niel':268 'object':30,41 'observ':53,281 'op':69,189 'oppos':236 'otherwis':384 'part':168 'particular':286 'peopl':207 'point':228 'polit':142,211 'portion':245 'potenti':276 'probabl':130,289 'problem':227 'proper':106 'quit':354 're':44 'realiti':50 'realli':174 'reduc':222 'remind':206 'rendit':232 'respons':66 'say':22,64 'scienc':364 'seem':176 'shortcut':220 'simplifi':49 'socio':160 'socio-econom':159 'soft':363 'spin':284 'start':81 'stolen':183 'subject':96 'sudden':8 'take':217 'theori':25,197,248 'think':77,140 'though':301 'today':170 'tone':393 'tool':149 'toward':330 'tri':11,20 'true':31,350 'truth':42 'understand':79,151,314 'understood':14 'use':39,45,145,361 'vagu':328 'valu':185,199,333 've':114,250 'want':204 'way':337 'world':153 'worth':63 'would':60,165 'written':115 'yeah':35"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5489133"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703384328 {#2093
          date: 2023-12-24 03:18:48.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701985632 {#2092
          date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208351
      }
    ]
    -id: 20852
    -titleTs: "'enemi':3 'know':1"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1702038246
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemmy.ml/post/8990722"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701951846 {#2506
      date: 2023-12-07 13:24:06.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2030 …}
  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
  +body: """
    As far as I understand: Price tries to measure value. Therefore: A price needs a value, but value doesn’t need price. They correlate but are not the same.\n
    \n
    Were am I making the mistake? Genuine question.
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 1
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1701980069 {#1403
    date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
    "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
    "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
    "@archomrade@midwest.social"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2032 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2024 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2018 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2011 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2021 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2029 …}
  -id: 207987
  -bodyTs: "'correl':24 'doesn':19 'far':2 'genuin':36 'make':33 'measur':9 'mistak':35 'need':14,21 'price':6,13,22 'question':37 'therefor':11 'tri':7 'understand':5 'valu':10,16,18"
  +ranking: 0
  +commentCount: 0
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487031"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980069 {#2019
    date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 207987
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
40 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2003 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2559 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2581 …}
    +slug: "Know-your-enemy"
    +title: "Know your enemy"
    +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/4e8abd58-e357-4836-88ce-d57b36597f6b.jpeg"
    +body: null
    +type: "image"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: true
    +commentCount: 76
    +favouriteCount: 676
    +score: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +sticky: false
    +lastActive: DateTime @1702111873 {#2346
      date: 2023-12-09 09:51:13.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2580 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2578 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2575 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2609 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2605 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2622 …}
    +children: [
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1604 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
          +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
          +image: null
          +parent: null
          +root: null
          +body: """
            Reminder that while the labour theory of value can be practical to understand certain aspects of society, it is still culturally biased and not “objectively” true.\n
            \n
            What creates value can only be answered in a cultural framework.
            """
          +lang: "en"
          +isAdult: false
          +favouriteCount: 12
          +score: 0
          +lastActive: DateTime @1703499828 {#1580
            date: 2023-12-25 11:23:48.0 +01:00
          }
          +ip: null
          +tags: null
          +mentions: [
            "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          ]
          +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1561 …}
          +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1564 …}
          +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1563 …}
          +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1565 …}
          +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1558 …}
          +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1557 …}
          -id: 206964
          -bodyTs: "'answer':33 'aspect':15 'bias':22 'certain':14 'creat':28 'cultur':21,36 'framework':37 'labour':5 'object':25 'practic':11 'remind':1 'societi':17 'still':20 'theori':6 'true':26 'understand':13 'valu':8,29"
          +ranking: 0
          +commentCount: 0
          +upVotes: 0
          +downVotes: 0
          +visibility: "visible             "
          +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5480766"
          +editedAt: null
          +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701964861 {#1550
            date: 2023-12-07 17:01:01.0 +01:00
          }
          +"title": 206964
        }
        +body: """
          You’re right. It’s *one* theory. There is however ongoing debate on which theory is “correct”.\n
          \n
          This vid explains it quite well and with Simpsons clips so the hour of video is bearable:\n
          \n
          [www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw)
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701971365 {#1621
          date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1596 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1702 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1683 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1680 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1686 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1692 …}
        -id: 207387
        -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':37 'bearabl':34 'clip':27 'correct':17 'debat':12 'explain':20 'hour':30 'howev':10 'one':6 'ongo':11 'quit':22 're':2 'right':3 'simpson':26 'theori':7,15 'vid':19 'video':32 'well':23 'www.youtube.com':36 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':35"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5483715"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701971365 {#1620
          date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207387
      }
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1721
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1726 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Umm… Thanks for that unnecessarily aggressive seeming and a bit incompehensible addendum, I guess?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 4
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701975001 {#1723
          date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1728 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1730 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1734 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1727 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1733 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1724 …}
        -id: 207642
        -bodyTs: "'addendum':12 'aggress':6 'bit':10 'guess':14 'incompehens':11 'seem':7 'thank':2 'umm':1 'unnecessarili':5"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485206"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975001 {#1722
          date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207642
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1616
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1611 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          I was talking about the theory, not value. Sorry if that didn’t come across.\n
          \n
          Now that I think about it: isn’t value culturally determined in many things? Why are apple products more expensive than other computers with the same specs? Why is a ticket to a Billie Eilish concert more valuable than one to my neighbor’s indie rock band?
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701974894 {#1705
          date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1598 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1629 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1626 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1618 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1597 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1731 …}
        -id: 207637
        -bodyTs: "'across':15 'appl':32 'band':62 'billi':49 'come':14 'comput':38 'concert':51 'cultur':25 'determin':26 'didn':12 'eilish':50 'expens':35 'indi':60 'isn':22 'mani':28 'neighbor':58 'one':55 'product':33 'rock':61 'sorri':9 'spec':42 'talk':3 'theori':6 'thing':29 'think':19 'ticket':46 'valu':8,24 'valuabl':53"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485163"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701974894 {#1711
          date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207637
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1718
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1720 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          Sorry, I interpreted it as aggressive. Figuring out tone in text form is hard and all that. Sorry that I wrongly accused you.\n
          \n
          Things I didn’t get:\n
          \n
          > A reminder that the labour theory of value is not a marxist concept.\n
          \n
          Marx hasn’t been explicity brought up yet (at least not in my comment). Only implicitly in the original post. Again: thought you were attacking me and was like “umm… So what?”\n
          \n
          > When people wave their hands around and say “labor theory of value isn’t objectively true!!”, they’re shadowboxing a ghost.\n
          \n
          I thought you meant me, since that was what I was basically saying. 😅\n
          \n
          > Value != price\n
          \n
          Now, that one wasn’t even implicitly mentioned.\n
          \n
          I hope you don’t hold my misunderstanding against me.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 3
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701975943 {#1715
          date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1716 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1739 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1740 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2465 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2463 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2411 …}
        -id: 207711
        -bodyTs: "'accus':22 'aggress':6 'around':79 'attack':66 'basic':106 'brought':47 'comment':55 'concept':41 'didn':26 'even':115 'explic':46 'figur':7 'form':12 'get':28 'ghost':94 'hand':78 'hard':14 'hasn':43 'hold':123 'hope':119 'implicit':57,116 'interpret':3 'isn':86 'labor':82 'labour':33 'least':51 'like':70 'marx':42 'marxist':40 'meant':98 'mention':117 'misunderstand':125 'object':88 'one':112 'origin':60 'peopl':75 'post':61 'price':109 're':91 'remind':30 'say':81,107 'shadowbox':92 'sinc':100 'sorri':1,18 'text':11 'theori':34,83 'thing':24 'thought':63,96 'tone':9 'true':89 'umm':71 'valu':36,85,108 'wasn':113 'wave':76 'wrong':21 'yet':49"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485494"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975943 {#1714
          date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207711
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2458
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2461 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Where?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701976885 {#2422
          date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2456 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2453 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2457 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2455 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2468 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2469 …}
        -id: 207782
        -bodyTs: ""
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485802"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701976885 {#2462
          date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207782
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2370 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Don’t the two correlate?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701977809 {#2471
          date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2377 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2359 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2364 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2380 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2382 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2384 …}
        -id: 207842
        -bodyTs: "'correl':5 'two':4"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486088"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977809 {#2371
          date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207842
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          > Well now i’m confused. If ‘labor theory of value isn’t objectively true’ isn’t making an argument about the price of a commodity not being equal to the labor it embodies, I am not sure what you’re trying to say by it.\n
          \n
          A theory o value doesn’t necessarily say anything about price. As you said: “value != price”.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701977944 {#2379
          date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1909 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1926 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1874 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1908 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1883 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2389 …}
        -id: 207854
        -bodyTs: "'anyth':54 'argument':19 'commod':25 'confus':5 'doesn':50 'embodi':33 'equal':28 'isn':11,15 'labor':7,31 'm':4 'make':17 'necessarili':52 'o':48 'object':13 'price':22,56,61 're':40 'said':59 'say':43,53 'sure':37 'theori':8,47 'tri':41 'true':14 'valu':10,49,60 'well':1"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486136"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373971 {#2381
          date: 2023-12-24 00:26:11.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977944 {#2383
          date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207854
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023}
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2393 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          There’s not even academical consensus what value actually *is*, AFAIK. Do preasts add value to anything with their labour? If not: Do social counsellors? What if a priest acts as a counsellor? Ask different economists with their theories of value and you’ll get several answers.\n
          \n
          Economic theories aren’t as rigid as theories from the natural sciences or mathematics. They are dependent on the culture in which they are perceived. A non-capitalist society would have different theories or value (or none at all) than we do.\n
          \n
          [This guy can explain it properly](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw), I’m not an economist and kinda regret making that comment.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 6
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701979923 {#2387
          date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@JayDee@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1384 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1383 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1405 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1382 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1404 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1361 …}
        -id: 207981
        -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':99 'academ':5 'act':30 'actual':9 'add':14 'afaik':11 'answer':47 'anyth':17 'aren':50 'ask':34 'capitalist':76 'comment':110 'consensus':6 'counsellor':25,33 'cultur':67 'depend':64 'differ':35,80 'econom':48 'economist':36,104 'even':4 'explain':94 'get':45 'guy':92 'kinda':106 'labour':20 'll':44 'm':101 'make':108 'mathemat':61 'natur':58 'non':75 'non-capitalist':74 'none':85 'perceiv':72 'preast':13 'priest':29 'proper':96 'regret':107 'rigid':53 'scienc':59 'sever':46 'social':24 'societi':77 'theori':39,49,55,81 'valu':8,15,41,83 'would':78 'www.youtube.com':98 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':97"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486914"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373897 {#2392
          date: 2023-12-24 00:24:57.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701979923 {#2394
          date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207981
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2062 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "I wouldn’t have been able to write it this consise, but that’s kind of one thing I wanted to point towards in my original comment."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980622 {#2082
          date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2081 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2098 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2080 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2089 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2095 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2091 …}
        -id: 208044
        -bodyTs: "'abl':6 'comment':27 'consis':11 'kind':15 'one':17 'origin':26 'point':22 'thing':18 'toward':23 'want':20 'wouldn':2 'write':8"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487230"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980622 {#2085
          date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208044
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2035 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          It’s an economic theory and therefore more to be understood as a model on how economics work.\n
          \n
          The natural sciences have a hard core. The theory of gravity depends on how matter interacts in an objective, physical framework. Economic theories basically describe human interaction which are based on psychology and sociology. Therefore they depend on the societal context they are made in.\n
          \n
          If you understand them as models that are tools on how to understand the world, they become more useful in political analysis (I know we are in a meme community here, but everything is politics and so on and so on…).\n
          \n
          I do subscribe to many conclusions the labour theory of value and especially Marx came to. But I want y’all to *remember* that the theory is a mere tool for understanding and not a sacred, holy theory.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980460 {#2020
          date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2031 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2037 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2075 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2079 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2078 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2097 …}
        -id: 208027
        -bodyTs: "'analysi':85 'base':48 'basic':42 'becom':80 'came':119 'communiti':93 'conclus':110 'context':59 'core':25 'depend':30,55 'describ':43 'econom':4,17,40 'especi':117 'everyth':96 'framework':39 'graviti':29 'hard':24 'holi':141 'human':44 'interact':34,45 'know':87 'labour':112 'made':62 'mani':109 'marx':118 'matter':33 'meme':92 'mere':133 'model':14,69 'natur':20 'object':37 'physic':38 'polit':84,98 'psycholog':50 'rememb':127 'sacr':140 'scienc':21 'societ':58 'sociolog':52 'subscrib':107 'theori':5,27,41,113,130,142 'therefor':7,53 'tool':72,134 'understand':66,76,136 'understood':11 'use':82 'valu':115 'want':123 'work':18 'world':78 'y':124"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487165"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980460 {#2013
          date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208027
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2094
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2241 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          > Why the neutral language all of a sudden?\n
          \n
          I was trying to be understood a bit better.\n
          \n
          > Are you trying to say 'all economic theories and models are not objectively true"?\n
          \n
          Not explicitally, but yeah: models aren’t used for “objective truth”. They’re used to *model* (i.e. simplify) reality to make observations and guesses for the future.\n
          \n
          > Why would that be worth saying in response to the OP?\n
          \n
          I feel like a lot of leftists think that understanding economics starts and ends with “capitalists exploit the labouring class”, while not actually engaging with the subject matter. I guess most can’t even explain LTV properly before getting mad at capitalists.\n
          \n
          As I’ve written before: I agree with most conclusions of marxist analysis that I know and I probably don’t even know half of them. But I think that political analysis should use LTV as a tool to understand the world and not the end of socio-economical disgussion (because that would ignore important parts of today’s economy).\n
          \n
          > It really just seems like you disagree with the ‘your stolen labor value’ claim in the OP, and are attributing it to the ‘labor theory of value’\n
          \n
          I don’t. I wanted to remind people as to make political analysis not too easy by taking the mental shortcut of reducing current capitalism on the problems pointed out by Marx rendition of LTV.\n
          \n
          > (as opposed to dismissing it because you disagree with some portion of the theory you’ve neglected to mention)\n
          \n
          I don’t disagree. I also don’t disagree with the atomic model of Niels Bohr when it comes to calculating electron potential. When it comes to observing e.g. electron spin, that particular model will probably fall flat. That doesn’t mean I “disagree” with the model, though.\n
          \n
          > My hunch is that you don’t feel confident enough in your understanding to make any kind of firm claim and are just dancing around making vague gestures toward ‘labor’ and ‘value’ definitions as a way of avoiding it.\n
          \n
          I’m not too confident in my economic knowledge, true. But I *am* quite confident in how models should be used in soft sciences.\n
          \n
          Addendum: I’d like to kindly ask you to give me a little bit of benefit of the doubt. Otherwise, I’ll just disengage due to that accusatory tone I’m getting from you being a bit exhausting.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701985632 {#2090
          date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2140 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2133 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2131 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2138 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2345 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2330 …}
        -id: 208351
        -bodyTs: "'accusatori':392 'actual':92 'addendum':365 'agre':118 'also':259 'analysi':124,143,212 'aren':37 'around':326 'ask':371 'atom':265 'attribut':192 'avoid':339 'benefit':380 'better':17 'bit':16,378,401 'bohr':269 'calcul':274 'capit':224 'capitalist':85,111 'claim':186,321 'class':89 'come':272,279 'conclus':121 'confid':310,345,355 'current':223 'd':367 'danc':325 'definit':334 'disagre':179,242,257,262,297 'disengag':388 'disguss':162 'dismiss':238 'doesn':293 'doubt':383 'due':389 'e.g':282 'easi':215 'econom':24,80,161,348 'economi':172 'electron':275,283 'end':83,157 'engag':93 'enough':311 'even':103,133 'exhaust':402 'explain':104 'explicit':33 'exploit':86 'fall':290 'feel':71,309 'firm':320 'flat':291 'futur':58 'gestur':329 'get':108,396 'give':374 'guess':55,99 'half':135 'hunch':303 'i.e':48 'ignor':166 'import':167 'kind':318,370 'know':127,134 'knowledg':349 'labor':184,196,331 'labour':88 'languag':4 'leftist':76 'like':72,177,368 'littl':377 'll':386 'lot':74 'ltv':105,146,234 'm':342,395 'mad':109 'make':52,210,316,327 'marx':231 'marxist':123 'matter':97 'mean':295 'mental':219 'mention':253 'model':27,36,47,266,287,300,358 'neglect':251 'neutral':3 'niel':268 'object':30,41 'observ':53,281 'op':69,189 'oppos':236 'otherwis':384 'part':168 'particular':286 'peopl':207 'point':228 'polit':142,211 'portion':245 'potenti':276 'probabl':130,289 'problem':227 'proper':106 'quit':354 're':44 'realiti':50 'realli':174 'reduc':222 'remind':206 'rendit':232 'respons':66 'say':22,64 'scienc':364 'seem':176 'shortcut':220 'simplifi':49 'socio':160 'socio-econom':159 'soft':363 'spin':284 'start':81 'stolen':183 'subject':96 'sudden':8 'take':217 'theori':25,197,248 'think':77,140 'though':301 'today':170 'tone':393 'tool':149 'toward':330 'tri':11,20 'true':31,350 'truth':42 'understand':79,151,314 'understood':14 'use':39,45,145,361 'vagu':328 'valu':185,199,333 've':114,250 'want':204 'way':337 'world':153 'worth':63 'would':60,165 'written':115 'yeah':35"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5489133"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703384328 {#2093
          date: 2023-12-24 03:18:48.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701985632 {#2092
          date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208351
      }
    ]
    -id: 20852
    -titleTs: "'enemi':3 'know':1"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1702038246
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemmy.ml/post/8990722"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701951846 {#2506
      date: 2023-12-07 13:24:06.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2030 …}
  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
  +body: """
    As far as I understand: Price tries to measure value. Therefore: A price needs a value, but value doesn’t need price. They correlate but are not the same.\n
    \n
    Were am I making the mistake? Genuine question.
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 1
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1701980069 {#1403
    date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
    "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
    "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
    "@archomrade@midwest.social"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2032 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2024 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2018 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2011 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2021 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2029 …}
  -id: 207987
  -bodyTs: "'correl':24 'doesn':19 'far':2 'genuin':36 'make':33 'measur':9 'mistak':35 'need':14,21 'price':6,13,22 'question':37 'therefor':11 'tri':7 'understand':5 'valu':10,16,18"
  +ranking: 0
  +commentCount: 0
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487031"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980069 {#2019
    date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 207987
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
41 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
42 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2003 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2559 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2581 …}
    +slug: "Know-your-enemy"
    +title: "Know your enemy"
    +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/4e8abd58-e357-4836-88ce-d57b36597f6b.jpeg"
    +body: null
    +type: "image"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: true
    +commentCount: 76
    +favouriteCount: 676
    +score: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +sticky: false
    +lastActive: DateTime @1702111873 {#2346
      date: 2023-12-09 09:51:13.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2580 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2578 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2575 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2609 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2605 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2622 …}
    +children: [
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1604 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
          +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
          +image: null
          +parent: null
          +root: null
          +body: """
            Reminder that while the labour theory of value can be practical to understand certain aspects of society, it is still culturally biased and not “objectively” true.\n
            \n
            What creates value can only be answered in a cultural framework.
            """
          +lang: "en"
          +isAdult: false
          +favouriteCount: 12
          +score: 0
          +lastActive: DateTime @1703499828 {#1580
            date: 2023-12-25 11:23:48.0 +01:00
          }
          +ip: null
          +tags: null
          +mentions: [
            "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          ]
          +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1561 …}
          +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1564 …}
          +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1563 …}
          +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1565 …}
          +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1558 …}
          +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1557 …}
          -id: 206964
          -bodyTs: "'answer':33 'aspect':15 'bias':22 'certain':14 'creat':28 'cultur':21,36 'framework':37 'labour':5 'object':25 'practic':11 'remind':1 'societi':17 'still':20 'theori':6 'true':26 'understand':13 'valu':8,29"
          +ranking: 0
          +commentCount: 0
          +upVotes: 0
          +downVotes: 0
          +visibility: "visible             "
          +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5480766"
          +editedAt: null
          +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701964861 {#1550
            date: 2023-12-07 17:01:01.0 +01:00
          }
          +"title": 206964
        }
        +body: """
          You’re right. It’s *one* theory. There is however ongoing debate on which theory is “correct”.\n
          \n
          This vid explains it quite well and with Simpsons clips so the hour of video is bearable:\n
          \n
          [www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw)
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701971365 {#1621
          date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1596 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1702 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1683 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1680 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1686 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1692 …}
        -id: 207387
        -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':37 'bearabl':34 'clip':27 'correct':17 'debat':12 'explain':20 'hour':30 'howev':10 'one':6 'ongo':11 'quit':22 're':2 'right':3 'simpson':26 'theori':7,15 'vid':19 'video':32 'well':23 'www.youtube.com':36 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':35"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5483715"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701971365 {#1620
          date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207387
      }
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1721
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1726 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Umm… Thanks for that unnecessarily aggressive seeming and a bit incompehensible addendum, I guess?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 4
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701975001 {#1723
          date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1728 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1730 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1734 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1727 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1733 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1724 …}
        -id: 207642
        -bodyTs: "'addendum':12 'aggress':6 'bit':10 'guess':14 'incompehens':11 'seem':7 'thank':2 'umm':1 'unnecessarili':5"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485206"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975001 {#1722
          date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207642
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1616
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1611 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          I was talking about the theory, not value. Sorry if that didn’t come across.\n
          \n
          Now that I think about it: isn’t value culturally determined in many things? Why are apple products more expensive than other computers with the same specs? Why is a ticket to a Billie Eilish concert more valuable than one to my neighbor’s indie rock band?
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701974894 {#1705
          date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1598 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1629 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1626 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1618 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1597 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1731 …}
        -id: 207637
        -bodyTs: "'across':15 'appl':32 'band':62 'billi':49 'come':14 'comput':38 'concert':51 'cultur':25 'determin':26 'didn':12 'eilish':50 'expens':35 'indi':60 'isn':22 'mani':28 'neighbor':58 'one':55 'product':33 'rock':61 'sorri':9 'spec':42 'talk':3 'theori':6 'thing':29 'think':19 'ticket':46 'valu':8,24 'valuabl':53"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485163"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701974894 {#1711
          date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207637
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1718
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1720 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          Sorry, I interpreted it as aggressive. Figuring out tone in text form is hard and all that. Sorry that I wrongly accused you.\n
          \n
          Things I didn’t get:\n
          \n
          > A reminder that the labour theory of value is not a marxist concept.\n
          \n
          Marx hasn’t been explicity brought up yet (at least not in my comment). Only implicitly in the original post. Again: thought you were attacking me and was like “umm… So what?”\n
          \n
          > When people wave their hands around and say “labor theory of value isn’t objectively true!!”, they’re shadowboxing a ghost.\n
          \n
          I thought you meant me, since that was what I was basically saying. 😅\n
          \n
          > Value != price\n
          \n
          Now, that one wasn’t even implicitly mentioned.\n
          \n
          I hope you don’t hold my misunderstanding against me.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 3
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701975943 {#1715
          date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1716 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1739 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1740 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2465 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2463 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2411 …}
        -id: 207711
        -bodyTs: "'accus':22 'aggress':6 'around':79 'attack':66 'basic':106 'brought':47 'comment':55 'concept':41 'didn':26 'even':115 'explic':46 'figur':7 'form':12 'get':28 'ghost':94 'hand':78 'hard':14 'hasn':43 'hold':123 'hope':119 'implicit':57,116 'interpret':3 'isn':86 'labor':82 'labour':33 'least':51 'like':70 'marx':42 'marxist':40 'meant':98 'mention':117 'misunderstand':125 'object':88 'one':112 'origin':60 'peopl':75 'post':61 'price':109 're':91 'remind':30 'say':81,107 'shadowbox':92 'sinc':100 'sorri':1,18 'text':11 'theori':34,83 'thing':24 'thought':63,96 'tone':9 'true':89 'umm':71 'valu':36,85,108 'wasn':113 'wave':76 'wrong':21 'yet':49"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485494"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975943 {#1714
          date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207711
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2458
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2461 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Where?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701976885 {#2422
          date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2456 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2453 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2457 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2455 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2468 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2469 …}
        -id: 207782
        -bodyTs: ""
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485802"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701976885 {#2462
          date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207782
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2370 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Don’t the two correlate?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701977809 {#2471
          date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2377 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2359 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2364 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2380 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2382 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2384 …}
        -id: 207842
        -bodyTs: "'correl':5 'two':4"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486088"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977809 {#2371
          date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207842
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          > Well now i’m confused. If ‘labor theory of value isn’t objectively true’ isn’t making an argument about the price of a commodity not being equal to the labor it embodies, I am not sure what you’re trying to say by it.\n
          \n
          A theory o value doesn’t necessarily say anything about price. As you said: “value != price”.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701977944 {#2379
          date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1909 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1926 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1874 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1908 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1883 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2389 …}
        -id: 207854
        -bodyTs: "'anyth':54 'argument':19 'commod':25 'confus':5 'doesn':50 'embodi':33 'equal':28 'isn':11,15 'labor':7,31 'm':4 'make':17 'necessarili':52 'o':48 'object':13 'price':22,56,61 're':40 'said':59 'say':43,53 'sure':37 'theori':8,47 'tri':41 'true':14 'valu':10,49,60 'well':1"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486136"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373971 {#2381
          date: 2023-12-24 00:26:11.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977944 {#2383
          date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207854
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2030 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          As far as I understand: Price tries to measure value. Therefore: A price needs a value, but value doesn’t need price. They correlate but are not the same.\n
          \n
          Were am I making the mistake? Genuine question.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980069 {#1403
          date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2032 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2024 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2018 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2011 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2021 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2029 …}
        -id: 207987
        -bodyTs: "'correl':24 'doesn':19 'far':2 'genuin':36 'make':33 'measur':9 'mistak':35 'need':14,21 'price':6,13,22 'question':37 'therefor':11 'tri':7 'understand':5 'valu':10,16,18"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487031"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980069 {#2019
          date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207987
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395}
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2062 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "I wouldn’t have been able to write it this consise, but that’s kind of one thing I wanted to point towards in my original comment."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980622 {#2082
          date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2081 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2098 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2080 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2089 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2095 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2091 …}
        -id: 208044
        -bodyTs: "'abl':6 'comment':27 'consis':11 'kind':15 'one':17 'origin':26 'point':22 'thing':18 'toward':23 'want':20 'wouldn':2 'write':8"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487230"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980622 {#2085
          date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208044
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2035 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          It’s an economic theory and therefore more to be understood as a model on how economics work.\n
          \n
          The natural sciences have a hard core. The theory of gravity depends on how matter interacts in an objective, physical framework. Economic theories basically describe human interaction which are based on psychology and sociology. Therefore they depend on the societal context they are made in.\n
          \n
          If you understand them as models that are tools on how to understand the world, they become more useful in political analysis (I know we are in a meme community here, but everything is politics and so on and so on…).\n
          \n
          I do subscribe to many conclusions the labour theory of value and especially Marx came to. But I want y’all to *remember* that the theory is a mere tool for understanding and not a sacred, holy theory.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980460 {#2020
          date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2031 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2037 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2075 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2079 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2078 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2097 …}
        -id: 208027
        -bodyTs: "'analysi':85 'base':48 'basic':42 'becom':80 'came':119 'communiti':93 'conclus':110 'context':59 'core':25 'depend':30,55 'describ':43 'econom':4,17,40 'especi':117 'everyth':96 'framework':39 'graviti':29 'hard':24 'holi':141 'human':44 'interact':34,45 'know':87 'labour':112 'made':62 'mani':109 'marx':118 'matter':33 'meme':92 'mere':133 'model':14,69 'natur':20 'object':37 'physic':38 'polit':84,98 'psycholog':50 'rememb':127 'sacr':140 'scienc':21 'societ':58 'sociolog':52 'subscrib':107 'theori':5,27,41,113,130,142 'therefor':7,53 'tool':72,134 'understand':66,76,136 'understood':11 'use':82 'valu':115 'want':123 'work':18 'world':78 'y':124"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487165"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980460 {#2013
          date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208027
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2094
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2241 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          > Why the neutral language all of a sudden?\n
          \n
          I was trying to be understood a bit better.\n
          \n
          > Are you trying to say 'all economic theories and models are not objectively true"?\n
          \n
          Not explicitally, but yeah: models aren’t used for “objective truth”. They’re used to *model* (i.e. simplify) reality to make observations and guesses for the future.\n
          \n
          > Why would that be worth saying in response to the OP?\n
          \n
          I feel like a lot of leftists think that understanding economics starts and ends with “capitalists exploit the labouring class”, while not actually engaging with the subject matter. I guess most can’t even explain LTV properly before getting mad at capitalists.\n
          \n
          As I’ve written before: I agree with most conclusions of marxist analysis that I know and I probably don’t even know half of them. But I think that political analysis should use LTV as a tool to understand the world and not the end of socio-economical disgussion (because that would ignore important parts of today’s economy).\n
          \n
          > It really just seems like you disagree with the ‘your stolen labor value’ claim in the OP, and are attributing it to the ‘labor theory of value’\n
          \n
          I don’t. I wanted to remind people as to make political analysis not too easy by taking the mental shortcut of reducing current capitalism on the problems pointed out by Marx rendition of LTV.\n
          \n
          > (as opposed to dismissing it because you disagree with some portion of the theory you’ve neglected to mention)\n
          \n
          I don’t disagree. I also don’t disagree with the atomic model of Niels Bohr when it comes to calculating electron potential. When it comes to observing e.g. electron spin, that particular model will probably fall flat. That doesn’t mean I “disagree” with the model, though.\n
          \n
          > My hunch is that you don’t feel confident enough in your understanding to make any kind of firm claim and are just dancing around making vague gestures toward ‘labor’ and ‘value’ definitions as a way of avoiding it.\n
          \n
          I’m not too confident in my economic knowledge, true. But I *am* quite confident in how models should be used in soft sciences.\n
          \n
          Addendum: I’d like to kindly ask you to give me a little bit of benefit of the doubt. Otherwise, I’ll just disengage due to that accusatory tone I’m getting from you being a bit exhausting.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701985632 {#2090
          date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2140 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2133 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2131 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2138 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2345 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2330 …}
        -id: 208351
        -bodyTs: "'accusatori':392 'actual':92 'addendum':365 'agre':118 'also':259 'analysi':124,143,212 'aren':37 'around':326 'ask':371 'atom':265 'attribut':192 'avoid':339 'benefit':380 'better':17 'bit':16,378,401 'bohr':269 'calcul':274 'capit':224 'capitalist':85,111 'claim':186,321 'class':89 'come':272,279 'conclus':121 'confid':310,345,355 'current':223 'd':367 'danc':325 'definit':334 'disagre':179,242,257,262,297 'disengag':388 'disguss':162 'dismiss':238 'doesn':293 'doubt':383 'due':389 'e.g':282 'easi':215 'econom':24,80,161,348 'economi':172 'electron':275,283 'end':83,157 'engag':93 'enough':311 'even':103,133 'exhaust':402 'explain':104 'explicit':33 'exploit':86 'fall':290 'feel':71,309 'firm':320 'flat':291 'futur':58 'gestur':329 'get':108,396 'give':374 'guess':55,99 'half':135 'hunch':303 'i.e':48 'ignor':166 'import':167 'kind':318,370 'know':127,134 'knowledg':349 'labor':184,196,331 'labour':88 'languag':4 'leftist':76 'like':72,177,368 'littl':377 'll':386 'lot':74 'ltv':105,146,234 'm':342,395 'mad':109 'make':52,210,316,327 'marx':231 'marxist':123 'matter':97 'mean':295 'mental':219 'mention':253 'model':27,36,47,266,287,300,358 'neglect':251 'neutral':3 'niel':268 'object':30,41 'observ':53,281 'op':69,189 'oppos':236 'otherwis':384 'part':168 'particular':286 'peopl':207 'point':228 'polit':142,211 'portion':245 'potenti':276 'probabl':130,289 'problem':227 'proper':106 'quit':354 're':44 'realiti':50 'realli':174 'reduc':222 'remind':206 'rendit':232 'respons':66 'say':22,64 'scienc':364 'seem':176 'shortcut':220 'simplifi':49 'socio':160 'socio-econom':159 'soft':363 'spin':284 'start':81 'stolen':183 'subject':96 'sudden':8 'take':217 'theori':25,197,248 'think':77,140 'though':301 'today':170 'tone':393 'tool':149 'toward':330 'tri':11,20 'true':31,350 'truth':42 'understand':79,151,314 'understood':14 'use':39,45,145,361 'vagu':328 'valu':185,199,333 've':114,250 'want':204 'way':337 'world':153 'worth':63 'would':60,165 'written':115 'yeah':35"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5489133"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703384328 {#2093
          date: 2023-12-24 03:18:48.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701985632 {#2092
          date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208351
      }
    ]
    -id: 20852
    -titleTs: "'enemi':3 'know':1"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1702038246
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemmy.ml/post/8990722"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701951846 {#2506
      date: 2023-12-07 13:24:06.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2393 …}
  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
  +body: """
    There’s not even academical consensus what value actually *is*, AFAIK. Do preasts add value to anything with their labour? If not: Do social counsellors? What if a priest acts as a counsellor? Ask different economists with their theories of value and you’ll get several answers.\n
    \n
    Economic theories aren’t as rigid as theories from the natural sciences or mathematics. They are dependent on the culture in which they are perceived. A non-capitalist society would have different theories or value (or none at all) than we do.\n
    \n
    [This guy can explain it properly](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw), I’m not an economist and kinda regret making that comment.
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 6
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1701979923 {#2387
    date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
    "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
    "@JayDee@lemmy.ml"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1384 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1383 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1405 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1382 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1404 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1361 …}
  -id: 207981
  -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':99 'academ':5 'act':30 'actual':9 'add':14 'afaik':11 'answer':47 'anyth':17 'aren':50 'ask':34 'capitalist':76 'comment':110 'consensus':6 'counsellor':25,33 'cultur':67 'depend':64 'differ':35,80 'econom':48 'economist':36,104 'even':4 'explain':94 'get':45 'guy':92 'kinda':106 'labour':20 'll':44 'm':101 'make':108 'mathemat':61 'natur':58 'non':75 'non-capitalist':74 'none':85 'perceiv':72 'preast':13 'priest':29 'proper':96 'regret':107 'rigid':53 'scienc':59 'sever':46 'social':24 'societi':77 'theori':39,49,55,81 'valu':8,15,41,83 'would':78 'www.youtube.com':98 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':97"
  +ranking: 0
  +commentCount: 0
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486914"
  +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373897 {#2392
    date: 2023-12-24 00:24:57.0 +01:00
  }
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701979923 {#2394
    date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 207981
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
43 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2003 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2559 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2581 …}
    +slug: "Know-your-enemy"
    +title: "Know your enemy"
    +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/4e8abd58-e357-4836-88ce-d57b36597f6b.jpeg"
    +body: null
    +type: "image"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: true
    +commentCount: 76
    +favouriteCount: 676
    +score: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +sticky: false
    +lastActive: DateTime @1702111873 {#2346
      date: 2023-12-09 09:51:13.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2580 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2578 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2575 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2609 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2605 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2622 …}
    +children: [
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1604 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
          +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
          +image: null
          +parent: null
          +root: null
          +body: """
            Reminder that while the labour theory of value can be practical to understand certain aspects of society, it is still culturally biased and not “objectively” true.\n
            \n
            What creates value can only be answered in a cultural framework.
            """
          +lang: "en"
          +isAdult: false
          +favouriteCount: 12
          +score: 0
          +lastActive: DateTime @1703499828 {#1580
            date: 2023-12-25 11:23:48.0 +01:00
          }
          +ip: null
          +tags: null
          +mentions: [
            "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          ]
          +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1561 …}
          +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1564 …}
          +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1563 …}
          +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1565 …}
          +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1558 …}
          +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1557 …}
          -id: 206964
          -bodyTs: "'answer':33 'aspect':15 'bias':22 'certain':14 'creat':28 'cultur':21,36 'framework':37 'labour':5 'object':25 'practic':11 'remind':1 'societi':17 'still':20 'theori':6 'true':26 'understand':13 'valu':8,29"
          +ranking: 0
          +commentCount: 0
          +upVotes: 0
          +downVotes: 0
          +visibility: "visible             "
          +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5480766"
          +editedAt: null
          +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701964861 {#1550
            date: 2023-12-07 17:01:01.0 +01:00
          }
          +"title": 206964
        }
        +body: """
          You’re right. It’s *one* theory. There is however ongoing debate on which theory is “correct”.\n
          \n
          This vid explains it quite well and with Simpsons clips so the hour of video is bearable:\n
          \n
          [www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw)
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701971365 {#1621
          date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1596 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1702 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1683 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1680 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1686 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1692 …}
        -id: 207387
        -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':37 'bearabl':34 'clip':27 'correct':17 'debat':12 'explain':20 'hour':30 'howev':10 'one':6 'ongo':11 'quit':22 're':2 'right':3 'simpson':26 'theori':7,15 'vid':19 'video':32 'well':23 'www.youtube.com':36 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':35"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5483715"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701971365 {#1620
          date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207387
      }
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1721
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1726 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Umm… Thanks for that unnecessarily aggressive seeming and a bit incompehensible addendum, I guess?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 4
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701975001 {#1723
          date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1728 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1730 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1734 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1727 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1733 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1724 …}
        -id: 207642
        -bodyTs: "'addendum':12 'aggress':6 'bit':10 'guess':14 'incompehens':11 'seem':7 'thank':2 'umm':1 'unnecessarili':5"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485206"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975001 {#1722
          date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207642
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1616
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1611 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          I was talking about the theory, not value. Sorry if that didn’t come across.\n
          \n
          Now that I think about it: isn’t value culturally determined in many things? Why are apple products more expensive than other computers with the same specs? Why is a ticket to a Billie Eilish concert more valuable than one to my neighbor’s indie rock band?
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701974894 {#1705
          date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1598 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1629 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1626 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1618 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1597 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1731 …}
        -id: 207637
        -bodyTs: "'across':15 'appl':32 'band':62 'billi':49 'come':14 'comput':38 'concert':51 'cultur':25 'determin':26 'didn':12 'eilish':50 'expens':35 'indi':60 'isn':22 'mani':28 'neighbor':58 'one':55 'product':33 'rock':61 'sorri':9 'spec':42 'talk':3 'theori':6 'thing':29 'think':19 'ticket':46 'valu':8,24 'valuabl':53"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485163"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701974894 {#1711
          date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207637
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1718
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1720 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          Sorry, I interpreted it as aggressive. Figuring out tone in text form is hard and all that. Sorry that I wrongly accused you.\n
          \n
          Things I didn’t get:\n
          \n
          > A reminder that the labour theory of value is not a marxist concept.\n
          \n
          Marx hasn’t been explicity brought up yet (at least not in my comment). Only implicitly in the original post. Again: thought you were attacking me and was like “umm… So what?”\n
          \n
          > When people wave their hands around and say “labor theory of value isn’t objectively true!!”, they’re shadowboxing a ghost.\n
          \n
          I thought you meant me, since that was what I was basically saying. 😅\n
          \n
          > Value != price\n
          \n
          Now, that one wasn’t even implicitly mentioned.\n
          \n
          I hope you don’t hold my misunderstanding against me.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 3
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701975943 {#1715
          date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1716 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1739 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1740 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2465 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2463 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2411 …}
        -id: 207711
        -bodyTs: "'accus':22 'aggress':6 'around':79 'attack':66 'basic':106 'brought':47 'comment':55 'concept':41 'didn':26 'even':115 'explic':46 'figur':7 'form':12 'get':28 'ghost':94 'hand':78 'hard':14 'hasn':43 'hold':123 'hope':119 'implicit':57,116 'interpret':3 'isn':86 'labor':82 'labour':33 'least':51 'like':70 'marx':42 'marxist':40 'meant':98 'mention':117 'misunderstand':125 'object':88 'one':112 'origin':60 'peopl':75 'post':61 'price':109 're':91 'remind':30 'say':81,107 'shadowbox':92 'sinc':100 'sorri':1,18 'text':11 'theori':34,83 'thing':24 'thought':63,96 'tone':9 'true':89 'umm':71 'valu':36,85,108 'wasn':113 'wave':76 'wrong':21 'yet':49"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485494"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975943 {#1714
          date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207711
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2458
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2461 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Where?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701976885 {#2422
          date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2456 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2453 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2457 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2455 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2468 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2469 …}
        -id: 207782
        -bodyTs: ""
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485802"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701976885 {#2462
          date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207782
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2370 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Don’t the two correlate?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701977809 {#2471
          date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2377 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2359 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2364 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2380 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2382 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2384 …}
        -id: 207842
        -bodyTs: "'correl':5 'two':4"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486088"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977809 {#2371
          date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207842
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          > Well now i’m confused. If ‘labor theory of value isn’t objectively true’ isn’t making an argument about the price of a commodity not being equal to the labor it embodies, I am not sure what you’re trying to say by it.\n
          \n
          A theory o value doesn’t necessarily say anything about price. As you said: “value != price”.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701977944 {#2379
          date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1909 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1926 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1874 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1908 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1883 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2389 …}
        -id: 207854
        -bodyTs: "'anyth':54 'argument':19 'commod':25 'confus':5 'doesn':50 'embodi':33 'equal':28 'isn':11,15 'labor':7,31 'm':4 'make':17 'necessarili':52 'o':48 'object':13 'price':22,56,61 're':40 'said':59 'say':43,53 'sure':37 'theori':8,47 'tri':41 'true':14 'valu':10,49,60 'well':1"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486136"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373971 {#2381
          date: 2023-12-24 00:26:11.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977944 {#2383
          date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207854
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2030 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          As far as I understand: Price tries to measure value. Therefore: A price needs a value, but value doesn’t need price. They correlate but are not the same.\n
          \n
          Were am I making the mistake? Genuine question.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980069 {#1403
          date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2032 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2024 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2018 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2011 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2021 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2029 …}
        -id: 207987
        -bodyTs: "'correl':24 'doesn':19 'far':2 'genuin':36 'make':33 'measur':9 'mistak':35 'need':14,21 'price':6,13,22 'question':37 'therefor':11 'tri':7 'understand':5 'valu':10,16,18"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487031"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980069 {#2019
          date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207987
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395}
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2062 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "I wouldn’t have been able to write it this consise, but that’s kind of one thing I wanted to point towards in my original comment."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980622 {#2082
          date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2081 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2098 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2080 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2089 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2095 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2091 …}
        -id: 208044
        -bodyTs: "'abl':6 'comment':27 'consis':11 'kind':15 'one':17 'origin':26 'point':22 'thing':18 'toward':23 'want':20 'wouldn':2 'write':8"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487230"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980622 {#2085
          date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208044
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2035 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          It’s an economic theory and therefore more to be understood as a model on how economics work.\n
          \n
          The natural sciences have a hard core. The theory of gravity depends on how matter interacts in an objective, physical framework. Economic theories basically describe human interaction which are based on psychology and sociology. Therefore they depend on the societal context they are made in.\n
          \n
          If you understand them as models that are tools on how to understand the world, they become more useful in political analysis (I know we are in a meme community here, but everything is politics and so on and so on…).\n
          \n
          I do subscribe to many conclusions the labour theory of value and especially Marx came to. But I want y’all to *remember* that the theory is a mere tool for understanding and not a sacred, holy theory.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980460 {#2020
          date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2031 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2037 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2075 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2079 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2078 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2097 …}
        -id: 208027
        -bodyTs: "'analysi':85 'base':48 'basic':42 'becom':80 'came':119 'communiti':93 'conclus':110 'context':59 'core':25 'depend':30,55 'describ':43 'econom':4,17,40 'especi':117 'everyth':96 'framework':39 'graviti':29 'hard':24 'holi':141 'human':44 'interact':34,45 'know':87 'labour':112 'made':62 'mani':109 'marx':118 'matter':33 'meme':92 'mere':133 'model':14,69 'natur':20 'object':37 'physic':38 'polit':84,98 'psycholog':50 'rememb':127 'sacr':140 'scienc':21 'societ':58 'sociolog':52 'subscrib':107 'theori':5,27,41,113,130,142 'therefor':7,53 'tool':72,134 'understand':66,76,136 'understood':11 'use':82 'valu':115 'want':123 'work':18 'world':78 'y':124"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487165"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980460 {#2013
          date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208027
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2094
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2241 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          > Why the neutral language all of a sudden?\n
          \n
          I was trying to be understood a bit better.\n
          \n
          > Are you trying to say 'all economic theories and models are not objectively true"?\n
          \n
          Not explicitally, but yeah: models aren’t used for “objective truth”. They’re used to *model* (i.e. simplify) reality to make observations and guesses for the future.\n
          \n
          > Why would that be worth saying in response to the OP?\n
          \n
          I feel like a lot of leftists think that understanding economics starts and ends with “capitalists exploit the labouring class”, while not actually engaging with the subject matter. I guess most can’t even explain LTV properly before getting mad at capitalists.\n
          \n
          As I’ve written before: I agree with most conclusions of marxist analysis that I know and I probably don’t even know half of them. But I think that political analysis should use LTV as a tool to understand the world and not the end of socio-economical disgussion (because that would ignore important parts of today’s economy).\n
          \n
          > It really just seems like you disagree with the ‘your stolen labor value’ claim in the OP, and are attributing it to the ‘labor theory of value’\n
          \n
          I don’t. I wanted to remind people as to make political analysis not too easy by taking the mental shortcut of reducing current capitalism on the problems pointed out by Marx rendition of LTV.\n
          \n
          > (as opposed to dismissing it because you disagree with some portion of the theory you’ve neglected to mention)\n
          \n
          I don’t disagree. I also don’t disagree with the atomic model of Niels Bohr when it comes to calculating electron potential. When it comes to observing e.g. electron spin, that particular model will probably fall flat. That doesn’t mean I “disagree” with the model, though.\n
          \n
          > My hunch is that you don’t feel confident enough in your understanding to make any kind of firm claim and are just dancing around making vague gestures toward ‘labor’ and ‘value’ definitions as a way of avoiding it.\n
          \n
          I’m not too confident in my economic knowledge, true. But I *am* quite confident in how models should be used in soft sciences.\n
          \n
          Addendum: I’d like to kindly ask you to give me a little bit of benefit of the doubt. Otherwise, I’ll just disengage due to that accusatory tone I’m getting from you being a bit exhausting.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701985632 {#2090
          date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2140 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2133 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2131 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2138 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2345 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2330 …}
        -id: 208351
        -bodyTs: "'accusatori':392 'actual':92 'addendum':365 'agre':118 'also':259 'analysi':124,143,212 'aren':37 'around':326 'ask':371 'atom':265 'attribut':192 'avoid':339 'benefit':380 'better':17 'bit':16,378,401 'bohr':269 'calcul':274 'capit':224 'capitalist':85,111 'claim':186,321 'class':89 'come':272,279 'conclus':121 'confid':310,345,355 'current':223 'd':367 'danc':325 'definit':334 'disagre':179,242,257,262,297 'disengag':388 'disguss':162 'dismiss':238 'doesn':293 'doubt':383 'due':389 'e.g':282 'easi':215 'econom':24,80,161,348 'economi':172 'electron':275,283 'end':83,157 'engag':93 'enough':311 'even':103,133 'exhaust':402 'explain':104 'explicit':33 'exploit':86 'fall':290 'feel':71,309 'firm':320 'flat':291 'futur':58 'gestur':329 'get':108,396 'give':374 'guess':55,99 'half':135 'hunch':303 'i.e':48 'ignor':166 'import':167 'kind':318,370 'know':127,134 'knowledg':349 'labor':184,196,331 'labour':88 'languag':4 'leftist':76 'like':72,177,368 'littl':377 'll':386 'lot':74 'ltv':105,146,234 'm':342,395 'mad':109 'make':52,210,316,327 'marx':231 'marxist':123 'matter':97 'mean':295 'mental':219 'mention':253 'model':27,36,47,266,287,300,358 'neglect':251 'neutral':3 'niel':268 'object':30,41 'observ':53,281 'op':69,189 'oppos':236 'otherwis':384 'part':168 'particular':286 'peopl':207 'point':228 'polit':142,211 'portion':245 'potenti':276 'probabl':130,289 'problem':227 'proper':106 'quit':354 're':44 'realiti':50 'realli':174 'reduc':222 'remind':206 'rendit':232 'respons':66 'say':22,64 'scienc':364 'seem':176 'shortcut':220 'simplifi':49 'socio':160 'socio-econom':159 'soft':363 'spin':284 'start':81 'stolen':183 'subject':96 'sudden':8 'take':217 'theori':25,197,248 'think':77,140 'though':301 'today':170 'tone':393 'tool':149 'toward':330 'tri':11,20 'true':31,350 'truth':42 'understand':79,151,314 'understood':14 'use':39,45,145,361 'vagu':328 'valu':185,199,333 've':114,250 'want':204 'way':337 'world':153 'worth':63 'would':60,165 'written':115 'yeah':35"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5489133"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703384328 {#2093
          date: 2023-12-24 03:18:48.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701985632 {#2092
          date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208351
      }
    ]
    -id: 20852
    -titleTs: "'enemi':3 'know':1"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1702038246
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemmy.ml/post/8990722"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701951846 {#2506
      date: 2023-12-07 13:24:06.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2393 …}
  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
  +body: """
    There’s not even academical consensus what value actually *is*, AFAIK. Do preasts add value to anything with their labour? If not: Do social counsellors? What if a priest acts as a counsellor? Ask different economists with their theories of value and you’ll get several answers.\n
    \n
    Economic theories aren’t as rigid as theories from the natural sciences or mathematics. They are dependent on the culture in which they are perceived. A non-capitalist society would have different theories or value (or none at all) than we do.\n
    \n
    [This guy can explain it properly](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw), I’m not an economist and kinda regret making that comment.
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 6
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1701979923 {#2387
    date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
    "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
    "@JayDee@lemmy.ml"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1384 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1383 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1405 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1382 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1404 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1361 …}
  -id: 207981
  -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':99 'academ':5 'act':30 'actual':9 'add':14 'afaik':11 'answer':47 'anyth':17 'aren':50 'ask':34 'capitalist':76 'comment':110 'consensus':6 'counsellor':25,33 'cultur':67 'depend':64 'differ':35,80 'econom':48 'economist':36,104 'even':4 'explain':94 'get':45 'guy':92 'kinda':106 'labour':20 'll':44 'm':101 'make':108 'mathemat':61 'natur':58 'non':75 'non-capitalist':74 'none':85 'perceiv':72 'preast':13 'priest':29 'proper':96 'regret':107 'rigid':53 'scienc':59 'sever':46 'social':24 'societi':77 'theori':39,49,55,81 'valu':8,15,41,83 'would':78 'www.youtube.com':98 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':97"
  +ranking: 0
  +commentCount: 0
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486914"
  +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373897 {#2392
    date: 2023-12-24 00:24:57.0 +01:00
  }
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701979923 {#2394
    date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 207981
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
44 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2003 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2559 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2581 …}
    +slug: "Know-your-enemy"
    +title: "Know your enemy"
    +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/4e8abd58-e357-4836-88ce-d57b36597f6b.jpeg"
    +body: null
    +type: "image"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: true
    +commentCount: 76
    +favouriteCount: 676
    +score: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +sticky: false
    +lastActive: DateTime @1702111873 {#2346
      date: 2023-12-09 09:51:13.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2580 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2578 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2575 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2609 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2605 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2622 …}
    +children: [
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1604 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
          +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
          +image: null
          +parent: null
          +root: null
          +body: """
            Reminder that while the labour theory of value can be practical to understand certain aspects of society, it is still culturally biased and not “objectively” true.\n
            \n
            What creates value can only be answered in a cultural framework.
            """
          +lang: "en"
          +isAdult: false
          +favouriteCount: 12
          +score: 0
          +lastActive: DateTime @1703499828 {#1580
            date: 2023-12-25 11:23:48.0 +01:00
          }
          +ip: null
          +tags: null
          +mentions: [
            "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          ]
          +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1561 …}
          +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1564 …}
          +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1563 …}
          +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1565 …}
          +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1558 …}
          +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1557 …}
          -id: 206964
          -bodyTs: "'answer':33 'aspect':15 'bias':22 'certain':14 'creat':28 'cultur':21,36 'framework':37 'labour':5 'object':25 'practic':11 'remind':1 'societi':17 'still':20 'theori':6 'true':26 'understand':13 'valu':8,29"
          +ranking: 0
          +commentCount: 0
          +upVotes: 0
          +downVotes: 0
          +visibility: "visible             "
          +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5480766"
          +editedAt: null
          +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701964861 {#1550
            date: 2023-12-07 17:01:01.0 +01:00
          }
          +"title": 206964
        }
        +body: """
          You’re right. It’s *one* theory. There is however ongoing debate on which theory is “correct”.\n
          \n
          This vid explains it quite well and with Simpsons clips so the hour of video is bearable:\n
          \n
          [www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw)
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701971365 {#1621
          date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1596 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1702 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1683 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1680 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1686 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1692 …}
        -id: 207387
        -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':37 'bearabl':34 'clip':27 'correct':17 'debat':12 'explain':20 'hour':30 'howev':10 'one':6 'ongo':11 'quit':22 're':2 'right':3 'simpson':26 'theori':7,15 'vid':19 'video':32 'well':23 'www.youtube.com':36 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':35"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5483715"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701971365 {#1620
          date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207387
      }
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1721
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1726 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Umm… Thanks for that unnecessarily aggressive seeming and a bit incompehensible addendum, I guess?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 4
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701975001 {#1723
          date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1728 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1730 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1734 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1727 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1733 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1724 …}
        -id: 207642
        -bodyTs: "'addendum':12 'aggress':6 'bit':10 'guess':14 'incompehens':11 'seem':7 'thank':2 'umm':1 'unnecessarili':5"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485206"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975001 {#1722
          date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207642
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1616
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1611 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          I was talking about the theory, not value. Sorry if that didn’t come across.\n
          \n
          Now that I think about it: isn’t value culturally determined in many things? Why are apple products more expensive than other computers with the same specs? Why is a ticket to a Billie Eilish concert more valuable than one to my neighbor’s indie rock band?
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701974894 {#1705
          date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1598 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1629 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1626 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1618 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1597 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1731 …}
        -id: 207637
        -bodyTs: "'across':15 'appl':32 'band':62 'billi':49 'come':14 'comput':38 'concert':51 'cultur':25 'determin':26 'didn':12 'eilish':50 'expens':35 'indi':60 'isn':22 'mani':28 'neighbor':58 'one':55 'product':33 'rock':61 'sorri':9 'spec':42 'talk':3 'theori':6 'thing':29 'think':19 'ticket':46 'valu':8,24 'valuabl':53"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485163"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701974894 {#1711
          date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207637
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1718
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1720 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          Sorry, I interpreted it as aggressive. Figuring out tone in text form is hard and all that. Sorry that I wrongly accused you.\n
          \n
          Things I didn’t get:\n
          \n
          > A reminder that the labour theory of value is not a marxist concept.\n
          \n
          Marx hasn’t been explicity brought up yet (at least not in my comment). Only implicitly in the original post. Again: thought you were attacking me and was like “umm… So what?”\n
          \n
          > When people wave their hands around and say “labor theory of value isn’t objectively true!!”, they’re shadowboxing a ghost.\n
          \n
          I thought you meant me, since that was what I was basically saying. 😅\n
          \n
          > Value != price\n
          \n
          Now, that one wasn’t even implicitly mentioned.\n
          \n
          I hope you don’t hold my misunderstanding against me.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 3
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701975943 {#1715
          date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1716 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1739 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1740 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2465 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2463 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2411 …}
        -id: 207711
        -bodyTs: "'accus':22 'aggress':6 'around':79 'attack':66 'basic':106 'brought':47 'comment':55 'concept':41 'didn':26 'even':115 'explic':46 'figur':7 'form':12 'get':28 'ghost':94 'hand':78 'hard':14 'hasn':43 'hold':123 'hope':119 'implicit':57,116 'interpret':3 'isn':86 'labor':82 'labour':33 'least':51 'like':70 'marx':42 'marxist':40 'meant':98 'mention':117 'misunderstand':125 'object':88 'one':112 'origin':60 'peopl':75 'post':61 'price':109 're':91 'remind':30 'say':81,107 'shadowbox':92 'sinc':100 'sorri':1,18 'text':11 'theori':34,83 'thing':24 'thought':63,96 'tone':9 'true':89 'umm':71 'valu':36,85,108 'wasn':113 'wave':76 'wrong':21 'yet':49"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485494"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975943 {#1714
          date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207711
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2458
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2461 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Where?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701976885 {#2422
          date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2456 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2453 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2457 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2455 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2468 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2469 …}
        -id: 207782
        -bodyTs: ""
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485802"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701976885 {#2462
          date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207782
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2370 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Don’t the two correlate?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701977809 {#2471
          date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2377 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2359 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2364 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2380 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2382 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2384 …}
        -id: 207842
        -bodyTs: "'correl':5 'two':4"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486088"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977809 {#2371
          date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207842
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          > Well now i’m confused. If ‘labor theory of value isn’t objectively true’ isn’t making an argument about the price of a commodity not being equal to the labor it embodies, I am not sure what you’re trying to say by it.\n
          \n
          A theory o value doesn’t necessarily say anything about price. As you said: “value != price”.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701977944 {#2379
          date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1909 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1926 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1874 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1908 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1883 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2389 …}
        -id: 207854
        -bodyTs: "'anyth':54 'argument':19 'commod':25 'confus':5 'doesn':50 'embodi':33 'equal':28 'isn':11,15 'labor':7,31 'm':4 'make':17 'necessarili':52 'o':48 'object':13 'price':22,56,61 're':40 'said':59 'say':43,53 'sure':37 'theori':8,47 'tri':41 'true':14 'valu':10,49,60 'well':1"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486136"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373971 {#2381
          date: 2023-12-24 00:26:11.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977944 {#2383
          date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207854
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2030 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          As far as I understand: Price tries to measure value. Therefore: A price needs a value, but value doesn’t need price. They correlate but are not the same.\n
          \n
          Were am I making the mistake? Genuine question.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980069 {#1403
          date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2032 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2024 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2018 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2011 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2021 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2029 …}
        -id: 207987
        -bodyTs: "'correl':24 'doesn':19 'far':2 'genuin':36 'make':33 'measur':9 'mistak':35 'need':14,21 'price':6,13,22 'question':37 'therefor':11 'tri':7 'understand':5 'valu':10,16,18"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487031"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980069 {#2019
          date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207987
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395}
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2062 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "I wouldn’t have been able to write it this consise, but that’s kind of one thing I wanted to point towards in my original comment."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980622 {#2082
          date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2081 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2098 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2080 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2089 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2095 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2091 …}
        -id: 208044
        -bodyTs: "'abl':6 'comment':27 'consis':11 'kind':15 'one':17 'origin':26 'point':22 'thing':18 'toward':23 'want':20 'wouldn':2 'write':8"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487230"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980622 {#2085
          date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208044
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2035 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          It’s an economic theory and therefore more to be understood as a model on how economics work.\n
          \n
          The natural sciences have a hard core. The theory of gravity depends on how matter interacts in an objective, physical framework. Economic theories basically describe human interaction which are based on psychology and sociology. Therefore they depend on the societal context they are made in.\n
          \n
          If you understand them as models that are tools on how to understand the world, they become more useful in political analysis (I know we are in a meme community here, but everything is politics and so on and so on…).\n
          \n
          I do subscribe to many conclusions the labour theory of value and especially Marx came to. But I want y’all to *remember* that the theory is a mere tool for understanding and not a sacred, holy theory.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980460 {#2020
          date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2031 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2037 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2075 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2079 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2078 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2097 …}
        -id: 208027
        -bodyTs: "'analysi':85 'base':48 'basic':42 'becom':80 'came':119 'communiti':93 'conclus':110 'context':59 'core':25 'depend':30,55 'describ':43 'econom':4,17,40 'especi':117 'everyth':96 'framework':39 'graviti':29 'hard':24 'holi':141 'human':44 'interact':34,45 'know':87 'labour':112 'made':62 'mani':109 'marx':118 'matter':33 'meme':92 'mere':133 'model':14,69 'natur':20 'object':37 'physic':38 'polit':84,98 'psycholog':50 'rememb':127 'sacr':140 'scienc':21 'societ':58 'sociolog':52 'subscrib':107 'theori':5,27,41,113,130,142 'therefor':7,53 'tool':72,134 'understand':66,76,136 'understood':11 'use':82 'valu':115 'want':123 'work':18 'world':78 'y':124"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487165"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980460 {#2013
          date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208027
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2094
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2241 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          > Why the neutral language all of a sudden?\n
          \n
          I was trying to be understood a bit better.\n
          \n
          > Are you trying to say 'all economic theories and models are not objectively true"?\n
          \n
          Not explicitally, but yeah: models aren’t used for “objective truth”. They’re used to *model* (i.e. simplify) reality to make observations and guesses for the future.\n
          \n
          > Why would that be worth saying in response to the OP?\n
          \n
          I feel like a lot of leftists think that understanding economics starts and ends with “capitalists exploit the labouring class”, while not actually engaging with the subject matter. I guess most can’t even explain LTV properly before getting mad at capitalists.\n
          \n
          As I’ve written before: I agree with most conclusions of marxist analysis that I know and I probably don’t even know half of them. But I think that political analysis should use LTV as a tool to understand the world and not the end of socio-economical disgussion (because that would ignore important parts of today’s economy).\n
          \n
          > It really just seems like you disagree with the ‘your stolen labor value’ claim in the OP, and are attributing it to the ‘labor theory of value’\n
          \n
          I don’t. I wanted to remind people as to make political analysis not too easy by taking the mental shortcut of reducing current capitalism on the problems pointed out by Marx rendition of LTV.\n
          \n
          > (as opposed to dismissing it because you disagree with some portion of the theory you’ve neglected to mention)\n
          \n
          I don’t disagree. I also don’t disagree with the atomic model of Niels Bohr when it comes to calculating electron potential. When it comes to observing e.g. electron spin, that particular model will probably fall flat. That doesn’t mean I “disagree” with the model, though.\n
          \n
          > My hunch is that you don’t feel confident enough in your understanding to make any kind of firm claim and are just dancing around making vague gestures toward ‘labor’ and ‘value’ definitions as a way of avoiding it.\n
          \n
          I’m not too confident in my economic knowledge, true. But I *am* quite confident in how models should be used in soft sciences.\n
          \n
          Addendum: I’d like to kindly ask you to give me a little bit of benefit of the doubt. Otherwise, I’ll just disengage due to that accusatory tone I’m getting from you being a bit exhausting.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701985632 {#2090
          date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2140 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2133 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2131 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2138 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2345 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2330 …}
        -id: 208351
        -bodyTs: "'accusatori':392 'actual':92 'addendum':365 'agre':118 'also':259 'analysi':124,143,212 'aren':37 'around':326 'ask':371 'atom':265 'attribut':192 'avoid':339 'benefit':380 'better':17 'bit':16,378,401 'bohr':269 'calcul':274 'capit':224 'capitalist':85,111 'claim':186,321 'class':89 'come':272,279 'conclus':121 'confid':310,345,355 'current':223 'd':367 'danc':325 'definit':334 'disagre':179,242,257,262,297 'disengag':388 'disguss':162 'dismiss':238 'doesn':293 'doubt':383 'due':389 'e.g':282 'easi':215 'econom':24,80,161,348 'economi':172 'electron':275,283 'end':83,157 'engag':93 'enough':311 'even':103,133 'exhaust':402 'explain':104 'explicit':33 'exploit':86 'fall':290 'feel':71,309 'firm':320 'flat':291 'futur':58 'gestur':329 'get':108,396 'give':374 'guess':55,99 'half':135 'hunch':303 'i.e':48 'ignor':166 'import':167 'kind':318,370 'know':127,134 'knowledg':349 'labor':184,196,331 'labour':88 'languag':4 'leftist':76 'like':72,177,368 'littl':377 'll':386 'lot':74 'ltv':105,146,234 'm':342,395 'mad':109 'make':52,210,316,327 'marx':231 'marxist':123 'matter':97 'mean':295 'mental':219 'mention':253 'model':27,36,47,266,287,300,358 'neglect':251 'neutral':3 'niel':268 'object':30,41 'observ':53,281 'op':69,189 'oppos':236 'otherwis':384 'part':168 'particular':286 'peopl':207 'point':228 'polit':142,211 'portion':245 'potenti':276 'probabl':130,289 'problem':227 'proper':106 'quit':354 're':44 'realiti':50 'realli':174 'reduc':222 'remind':206 'rendit':232 'respons':66 'say':22,64 'scienc':364 'seem':176 'shortcut':220 'simplifi':49 'socio':160 'socio-econom':159 'soft':363 'spin':284 'start':81 'stolen':183 'subject':96 'sudden':8 'take':217 'theori':25,197,248 'think':77,140 'though':301 'today':170 'tone':393 'tool':149 'toward':330 'tri':11,20 'true':31,350 'truth':42 'understand':79,151,314 'understood':14 'use':39,45,145,361 'vagu':328 'valu':185,199,333 've':114,250 'want':204 'way':337 'world':153 'worth':63 'would':60,165 'written':115 'yeah':35"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5489133"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703384328 {#2093
          date: 2023-12-24 03:18:48.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701985632 {#2092
          date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208351
      }
    ]
    -id: 20852
    -titleTs: "'enemi':3 'know':1"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1702038246
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemmy.ml/post/8990722"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701951846 {#2506
      date: 2023-12-07 13:24:06.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2393 …}
  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
  +body: """
    There’s not even academical consensus what value actually *is*, AFAIK. Do preasts add value to anything with their labour? If not: Do social counsellors? What if a priest acts as a counsellor? Ask different economists with their theories of value and you’ll get several answers.\n
    \n
    Economic theories aren’t as rigid as theories from the natural sciences or mathematics. They are dependent on the culture in which they are perceived. A non-capitalist society would have different theories or value (or none at all) than we do.\n
    \n
    [This guy can explain it properly](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw), I’m not an economist and kinda regret making that comment.
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 6
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1701979923 {#2387
    date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
    "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
    "@JayDee@lemmy.ml"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1384 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1383 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1405 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1382 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1404 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1361 …}
  -id: 207981
  -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':99 'academ':5 'act':30 'actual':9 'add':14 'afaik':11 'answer':47 'anyth':17 'aren':50 'ask':34 'capitalist':76 'comment':110 'consensus':6 'counsellor':25,33 'cultur':67 'depend':64 'differ':35,80 'econom':48 'economist':36,104 'even':4 'explain':94 'get':45 'guy':92 'kinda':106 'labour':20 'll':44 'm':101 'make':108 'mathemat':61 'natur':58 'non':75 'non-capitalist':74 'none':85 'perceiv':72 'preast':13 'priest':29 'proper':96 'regret':107 'rigid':53 'scienc':59 'sever':46 'social':24 'societi':77 'theori':39,49,55,81 'valu':8,15,41,83 'would':78 'www.youtube.com':98 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':97"
  +ranking: 0
  +commentCount: 0
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486914"
  +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373897 {#2392
    date: 2023-12-24 00:24:57.0 +01:00
  }
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701979923 {#2394
    date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 207981
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
45 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
46 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2003 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2559 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2581 …}
    +slug: "Know-your-enemy"
    +title: "Know your enemy"
    +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/4e8abd58-e357-4836-88ce-d57b36597f6b.jpeg"
    +body: null
    +type: "image"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: true
    +commentCount: 76
    +favouriteCount: 676
    +score: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +sticky: false
    +lastActive: DateTime @1702111873 {#2346
      date: 2023-12-09 09:51:13.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2580 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2578 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2575 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2609 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2605 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2622 …}
    +children: [
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1604 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
          +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
          +image: null
          +parent: null
          +root: null
          +body: """
            Reminder that while the labour theory of value can be practical to understand certain aspects of society, it is still culturally biased and not “objectively” true.\n
            \n
            What creates value can only be answered in a cultural framework.
            """
          +lang: "en"
          +isAdult: false
          +favouriteCount: 12
          +score: 0
          +lastActive: DateTime @1703499828 {#1580
            date: 2023-12-25 11:23:48.0 +01:00
          }
          +ip: null
          +tags: null
          +mentions: [
            "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          ]
          +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1561 …}
          +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1564 …}
          +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1563 …}
          +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1565 …}
          +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1558 …}
          +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1557 …}
          -id: 206964
          -bodyTs: "'answer':33 'aspect':15 'bias':22 'certain':14 'creat':28 'cultur':21,36 'framework':37 'labour':5 'object':25 'practic':11 'remind':1 'societi':17 'still':20 'theori':6 'true':26 'understand':13 'valu':8,29"
          +ranking: 0
          +commentCount: 0
          +upVotes: 0
          +downVotes: 0
          +visibility: "visible             "
          +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5480766"
          +editedAt: null
          +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701964861 {#1550
            date: 2023-12-07 17:01:01.0 +01:00
          }
          +"title": 206964
        }
        +body: """
          You’re right. It’s *one* theory. There is however ongoing debate on which theory is “correct”.\n
          \n
          This vid explains it quite well and with Simpsons clips so the hour of video is bearable:\n
          \n
          [www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw)
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701971365 {#1621
          date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1596 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1702 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1683 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1680 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1686 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1692 …}
        -id: 207387
        -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':37 'bearabl':34 'clip':27 'correct':17 'debat':12 'explain':20 'hour':30 'howev':10 'one':6 'ongo':11 'quit':22 're':2 'right':3 'simpson':26 'theori':7,15 'vid':19 'video':32 'well':23 'www.youtube.com':36 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':35"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5483715"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701971365 {#1620
          date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207387
      }
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1721
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1726 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Umm… Thanks for that unnecessarily aggressive seeming and a bit incompehensible addendum, I guess?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 4
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701975001 {#1723
          date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1728 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1730 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1734 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1727 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1733 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1724 …}
        -id: 207642
        -bodyTs: "'addendum':12 'aggress':6 'bit':10 'guess':14 'incompehens':11 'seem':7 'thank':2 'umm':1 'unnecessarili':5"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485206"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975001 {#1722
          date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207642
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1616
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1611 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          I was talking about the theory, not value. Sorry if that didn’t come across.\n
          \n
          Now that I think about it: isn’t value culturally determined in many things? Why are apple products more expensive than other computers with the same specs? Why is a ticket to a Billie Eilish concert more valuable than one to my neighbor’s indie rock band?
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701974894 {#1705
          date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1598 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1629 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1626 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1618 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1597 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1731 …}
        -id: 207637
        -bodyTs: "'across':15 'appl':32 'band':62 'billi':49 'come':14 'comput':38 'concert':51 'cultur':25 'determin':26 'didn':12 'eilish':50 'expens':35 'indi':60 'isn':22 'mani':28 'neighbor':58 'one':55 'product':33 'rock':61 'sorri':9 'spec':42 'talk':3 'theori':6 'thing':29 'think':19 'ticket':46 'valu':8,24 'valuabl':53"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485163"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701974894 {#1711
          date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207637
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1718
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1720 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          Sorry, I interpreted it as aggressive. Figuring out tone in text form is hard and all that. Sorry that I wrongly accused you.\n
          \n
          Things I didn’t get:\n
          \n
          > A reminder that the labour theory of value is not a marxist concept.\n
          \n
          Marx hasn’t been explicity brought up yet (at least not in my comment). Only implicitly in the original post. Again: thought you were attacking me and was like “umm… So what?”\n
          \n
          > When people wave their hands around and say “labor theory of value isn’t objectively true!!”, they’re shadowboxing a ghost.\n
          \n
          I thought you meant me, since that was what I was basically saying. 😅\n
          \n
          > Value != price\n
          \n
          Now, that one wasn’t even implicitly mentioned.\n
          \n
          I hope you don’t hold my misunderstanding against me.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 3
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701975943 {#1715
          date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1716 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1739 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1740 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2465 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2463 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2411 …}
        -id: 207711
        -bodyTs: "'accus':22 'aggress':6 'around':79 'attack':66 'basic':106 'brought':47 'comment':55 'concept':41 'didn':26 'even':115 'explic':46 'figur':7 'form':12 'get':28 'ghost':94 'hand':78 'hard':14 'hasn':43 'hold':123 'hope':119 'implicit':57,116 'interpret':3 'isn':86 'labor':82 'labour':33 'least':51 'like':70 'marx':42 'marxist':40 'meant':98 'mention':117 'misunderstand':125 'object':88 'one':112 'origin':60 'peopl':75 'post':61 'price':109 're':91 'remind':30 'say':81,107 'shadowbox':92 'sinc':100 'sorri':1,18 'text':11 'theori':34,83 'thing':24 'thought':63,96 'tone':9 'true':89 'umm':71 'valu':36,85,108 'wasn':113 'wave':76 'wrong':21 'yet':49"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485494"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975943 {#1714
          date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207711
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2458
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2461 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Where?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701976885 {#2422
          date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2456 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2453 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2457 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2455 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2468 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2469 …}
        -id: 207782
        -bodyTs: ""
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485802"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701976885 {#2462
          date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207782
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2370 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Don’t the two correlate?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701977809 {#2471
          date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2377 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2359 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2364 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2380 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2382 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2384 …}
        -id: 207842
        -bodyTs: "'correl':5 'two':4"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486088"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977809 {#2371
          date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207842
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          > Well now i’m confused. If ‘labor theory of value isn’t objectively true’ isn’t making an argument about the price of a commodity not being equal to the labor it embodies, I am not sure what you’re trying to say by it.\n
          \n
          A theory o value doesn’t necessarily say anything about price. As you said: “value != price”.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701977944 {#2379
          date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1909 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1926 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1874 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1908 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1883 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2389 …}
        -id: 207854
        -bodyTs: "'anyth':54 'argument':19 'commod':25 'confus':5 'doesn':50 'embodi':33 'equal':28 'isn':11,15 'labor':7,31 'm':4 'make':17 'necessarili':52 'o':48 'object':13 'price':22,56,61 're':40 'said':59 'say':43,53 'sure':37 'theori':8,47 'tri':41 'true':14 'valu':10,49,60 'well':1"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486136"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373971 {#2381
          date: 2023-12-24 00:26:11.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977944 {#2383
          date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207854
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2030 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          As far as I understand: Price tries to measure value. Therefore: A price needs a value, but value doesn’t need price. They correlate but are not the same.\n
          \n
          Were am I making the mistake? Genuine question.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980069 {#1403
          date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2032 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2024 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2018 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2011 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2021 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2029 …}
        -id: 207987
        -bodyTs: "'correl':24 'doesn':19 'far':2 'genuin':36 'make':33 'measur':9 'mistak':35 'need':14,21 'price':6,13,22 'question':37 'therefor':11 'tri':7 'understand':5 'valu':10,16,18"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487031"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980069 {#2019
          date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207987
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2393 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          There’s not even academical consensus what value actually *is*, AFAIK. Do preasts add value to anything with their labour? If not: Do social counsellors? What if a priest acts as a counsellor? Ask different economists with their theories of value and you’ll get several answers.\n
          \n
          Economic theories aren’t as rigid as theories from the natural sciences or mathematics. They are dependent on the culture in which they are perceived. A non-capitalist society would have different theories or value (or none at all) than we do.\n
          \n
          [This guy can explain it properly](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw), I’m not an economist and kinda regret making that comment.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 6
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701979923 {#2387
          date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@JayDee@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1384 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1383 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1405 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1382 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1404 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1361 …}
        -id: 207981
        -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':99 'academ':5 'act':30 'actual':9 'add':14 'afaik':11 'answer':47 'anyth':17 'aren':50 'ask':34 'capitalist':76 'comment':110 'consensus':6 'counsellor':25,33 'cultur':67 'depend':64 'differ':35,80 'econom':48 'economist':36,104 'even':4 'explain':94 'get':45 'guy':92 'kinda':106 'labour':20 'll':44 'm':101 'make':108 'mathemat':61 'natur':58 'non':75 'non-capitalist':74 'none':85 'perceiv':72 'preast':13 'priest':29 'proper':96 'regret':107 'rigid':53 'scienc':59 'sever':46 'social':24 'societi':77 'theori':39,49,55,81 'valu':8,15,41,83 'would':78 'www.youtube.com':98 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':97"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486914"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373897 {#2392
          date: 2023-12-24 00:24:57.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701979923 {#2394
          date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207981
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096}
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2035 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          It’s an economic theory and therefore more to be understood as a model on how economics work.\n
          \n
          The natural sciences have a hard core. The theory of gravity depends on how matter interacts in an objective, physical framework. Economic theories basically describe human interaction which are based on psychology and sociology. Therefore they depend on the societal context they are made in.\n
          \n
          If you understand them as models that are tools on how to understand the world, they become more useful in political analysis (I know we are in a meme community here, but everything is politics and so on and so on…).\n
          \n
          I do subscribe to many conclusions the labour theory of value and especially Marx came to. But I want y’all to *remember* that the theory is a mere tool for understanding and not a sacred, holy theory.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980460 {#2020
          date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2031 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2037 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2075 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2079 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2078 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2097 …}
        -id: 208027
        -bodyTs: "'analysi':85 'base':48 'basic':42 'becom':80 'came':119 'communiti':93 'conclus':110 'context':59 'core':25 'depend':30,55 'describ':43 'econom':4,17,40 'especi':117 'everyth':96 'framework':39 'graviti':29 'hard':24 'holi':141 'human':44 'interact':34,45 'know':87 'labour':112 'made':62 'mani':109 'marx':118 'matter':33 'meme':92 'mere':133 'model':14,69 'natur':20 'object':37 'physic':38 'polit':84,98 'psycholog':50 'rememb':127 'sacr':140 'scienc':21 'societ':58 'sociolog':52 'subscrib':107 'theori':5,27,41,113,130,142 'therefor':7,53 'tool':72,134 'understand':66,76,136 'understood':11 'use':82 'valu':115 'want':123 'work':18 'world':78 'y':124"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487165"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980460 {#2013
          date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208027
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2094
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2241 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          > Why the neutral language all of a sudden?\n
          \n
          I was trying to be understood a bit better.\n
          \n
          > Are you trying to say 'all economic theories and models are not objectively true"?\n
          \n
          Not explicitally, but yeah: models aren’t used for “objective truth”. They’re used to *model* (i.e. simplify) reality to make observations and guesses for the future.\n
          \n
          > Why would that be worth saying in response to the OP?\n
          \n
          I feel like a lot of leftists think that understanding economics starts and ends with “capitalists exploit the labouring class”, while not actually engaging with the subject matter. I guess most can’t even explain LTV properly before getting mad at capitalists.\n
          \n
          As I’ve written before: I agree with most conclusions of marxist analysis that I know and I probably don’t even know half of them. But I think that political analysis should use LTV as a tool to understand the world and not the end of socio-economical disgussion (because that would ignore important parts of today’s economy).\n
          \n
          > It really just seems like you disagree with the ‘your stolen labor value’ claim in the OP, and are attributing it to the ‘labor theory of value’\n
          \n
          I don’t. I wanted to remind people as to make political analysis not too easy by taking the mental shortcut of reducing current capitalism on the problems pointed out by Marx rendition of LTV.\n
          \n
          > (as opposed to dismissing it because you disagree with some portion of the theory you’ve neglected to mention)\n
          \n
          I don’t disagree. I also don’t disagree with the atomic model of Niels Bohr when it comes to calculating electron potential. When it comes to observing e.g. electron spin, that particular model will probably fall flat. That doesn’t mean I “disagree” with the model, though.\n
          \n
          > My hunch is that you don’t feel confident enough in your understanding to make any kind of firm claim and are just dancing around making vague gestures toward ‘labor’ and ‘value’ definitions as a way of avoiding it.\n
          \n
          I’m not too confident in my economic knowledge, true. But I *am* quite confident in how models should be used in soft sciences.\n
          \n
          Addendum: I’d like to kindly ask you to give me a little bit of benefit of the doubt. Otherwise, I’ll just disengage due to that accusatory tone I’m getting from you being a bit exhausting.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701985632 {#2090
          date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2140 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2133 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2131 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2138 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2345 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2330 …}
        -id: 208351
        -bodyTs: "'accusatori':392 'actual':92 'addendum':365 'agre':118 'also':259 'analysi':124,143,212 'aren':37 'around':326 'ask':371 'atom':265 'attribut':192 'avoid':339 'benefit':380 'better':17 'bit':16,378,401 'bohr':269 'calcul':274 'capit':224 'capitalist':85,111 'claim':186,321 'class':89 'come':272,279 'conclus':121 'confid':310,345,355 'current':223 'd':367 'danc':325 'definit':334 'disagre':179,242,257,262,297 'disengag':388 'disguss':162 'dismiss':238 'doesn':293 'doubt':383 'due':389 'e.g':282 'easi':215 'econom':24,80,161,348 'economi':172 'electron':275,283 'end':83,157 'engag':93 'enough':311 'even':103,133 'exhaust':402 'explain':104 'explicit':33 'exploit':86 'fall':290 'feel':71,309 'firm':320 'flat':291 'futur':58 'gestur':329 'get':108,396 'give':374 'guess':55,99 'half':135 'hunch':303 'i.e':48 'ignor':166 'import':167 'kind':318,370 'know':127,134 'knowledg':349 'labor':184,196,331 'labour':88 'languag':4 'leftist':76 'like':72,177,368 'littl':377 'll':386 'lot':74 'ltv':105,146,234 'm':342,395 'mad':109 'make':52,210,316,327 'marx':231 'marxist':123 'matter':97 'mean':295 'mental':219 'mention':253 'model':27,36,47,266,287,300,358 'neglect':251 'neutral':3 'niel':268 'object':30,41 'observ':53,281 'op':69,189 'oppos':236 'otherwis':384 'part':168 'particular':286 'peopl':207 'point':228 'polit':142,211 'portion':245 'potenti':276 'probabl':130,289 'problem':227 'proper':106 'quit':354 're':44 'realiti':50 'realli':174 'reduc':222 'remind':206 'rendit':232 'respons':66 'say':22,64 'scienc':364 'seem':176 'shortcut':220 'simplifi':49 'socio':160 'socio-econom':159 'soft':363 'spin':284 'start':81 'stolen':183 'subject':96 'sudden':8 'take':217 'theori':25,197,248 'think':77,140 'though':301 'today':170 'tone':393 'tool':149 'toward':330 'tri':11,20 'true':31,350 'truth':42 'understand':79,151,314 'understood':14 'use':39,45,145,361 'vagu':328 'valu':185,199,333 've':114,250 'want':204 'way':337 'world':153 'worth':63 'would':60,165 'written':115 'yeah':35"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5489133"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703384328 {#2093
          date: 2023-12-24 03:18:48.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701985632 {#2092
          date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208351
      }
    ]
    -id: 20852
    -titleTs: "'enemi':3 'know':1"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1702038246
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemmy.ml/post/8990722"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701951846 {#2506
      date: 2023-12-07 13:24:06.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2062 …}
  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
  +body: "I wouldn’t have been able to write it this consise, but that’s kind of one thing I wanted to point towards in my original comment."
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 1
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1701980622 {#2082
    date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
    "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
    "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2081 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2098 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2080 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2089 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2095 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2091 …}
  -id: 208044
  -bodyTs: "'abl':6 'comment':27 'consis':11 'kind':15 'one':17 'origin':26 'point':22 'thing':18 'toward':23 'want':20 'wouldn':2 'write':8"
  +ranking: 0
  +commentCount: 0
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487230"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980622 {#2085
    date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 208044
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
47 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2003 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2559 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2581 …}
    +slug: "Know-your-enemy"
    +title: "Know your enemy"
    +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/4e8abd58-e357-4836-88ce-d57b36597f6b.jpeg"
    +body: null
    +type: "image"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: true
    +commentCount: 76
    +favouriteCount: 676
    +score: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +sticky: false
    +lastActive: DateTime @1702111873 {#2346
      date: 2023-12-09 09:51:13.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2580 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2578 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2575 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2609 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2605 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2622 …}
    +children: [
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1604 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
          +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
          +image: null
          +parent: null
          +root: null
          +body: """
            Reminder that while the labour theory of value can be practical to understand certain aspects of society, it is still culturally biased and not “objectively” true.\n
            \n
            What creates value can only be answered in a cultural framework.
            """
          +lang: "en"
          +isAdult: false
          +favouriteCount: 12
          +score: 0
          +lastActive: DateTime @1703499828 {#1580
            date: 2023-12-25 11:23:48.0 +01:00
          }
          +ip: null
          +tags: null
          +mentions: [
            "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          ]
          +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1561 …}
          +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1564 …}
          +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1563 …}
          +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1565 …}
          +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1558 …}
          +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1557 …}
          -id: 206964
          -bodyTs: "'answer':33 'aspect':15 'bias':22 'certain':14 'creat':28 'cultur':21,36 'framework':37 'labour':5 'object':25 'practic':11 'remind':1 'societi':17 'still':20 'theori':6 'true':26 'understand':13 'valu':8,29"
          +ranking: 0
          +commentCount: 0
          +upVotes: 0
          +downVotes: 0
          +visibility: "visible             "
          +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5480766"
          +editedAt: null
          +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701964861 {#1550
            date: 2023-12-07 17:01:01.0 +01:00
          }
          +"title": 206964
        }
        +body: """
          You’re right. It’s *one* theory. There is however ongoing debate on which theory is “correct”.\n
          \n
          This vid explains it quite well and with Simpsons clips so the hour of video is bearable:\n
          \n
          [www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw)
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701971365 {#1621
          date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1596 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1702 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1683 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1680 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1686 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1692 …}
        -id: 207387
        -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':37 'bearabl':34 'clip':27 'correct':17 'debat':12 'explain':20 'hour':30 'howev':10 'one':6 'ongo':11 'quit':22 're':2 'right':3 'simpson':26 'theori':7,15 'vid':19 'video':32 'well':23 'www.youtube.com':36 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':35"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5483715"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701971365 {#1620
          date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207387
      }
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1721
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1726 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Umm… Thanks for that unnecessarily aggressive seeming and a bit incompehensible addendum, I guess?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 4
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701975001 {#1723
          date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1728 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1730 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1734 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1727 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1733 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1724 …}
        -id: 207642
        -bodyTs: "'addendum':12 'aggress':6 'bit':10 'guess':14 'incompehens':11 'seem':7 'thank':2 'umm':1 'unnecessarili':5"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485206"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975001 {#1722
          date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207642
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1616
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1611 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          I was talking about the theory, not value. Sorry if that didn’t come across.\n
          \n
          Now that I think about it: isn’t value culturally determined in many things? Why are apple products more expensive than other computers with the same specs? Why is a ticket to a Billie Eilish concert more valuable than one to my neighbor’s indie rock band?
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701974894 {#1705
          date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1598 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1629 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1626 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1618 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1597 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1731 …}
        -id: 207637
        -bodyTs: "'across':15 'appl':32 'band':62 'billi':49 'come':14 'comput':38 'concert':51 'cultur':25 'determin':26 'didn':12 'eilish':50 'expens':35 'indi':60 'isn':22 'mani':28 'neighbor':58 'one':55 'product':33 'rock':61 'sorri':9 'spec':42 'talk':3 'theori':6 'thing':29 'think':19 'ticket':46 'valu':8,24 'valuabl':53"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485163"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701974894 {#1711
          date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207637
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1718
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1720 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          Sorry, I interpreted it as aggressive. Figuring out tone in text form is hard and all that. Sorry that I wrongly accused you.\n
          \n
          Things I didn’t get:\n
          \n
          > A reminder that the labour theory of value is not a marxist concept.\n
          \n
          Marx hasn’t been explicity brought up yet (at least not in my comment). Only implicitly in the original post. Again: thought you were attacking me and was like “umm… So what?”\n
          \n
          > When people wave their hands around and say “labor theory of value isn’t objectively true!!”, they’re shadowboxing a ghost.\n
          \n
          I thought you meant me, since that was what I was basically saying. 😅\n
          \n
          > Value != price\n
          \n
          Now, that one wasn’t even implicitly mentioned.\n
          \n
          I hope you don’t hold my misunderstanding against me.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 3
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701975943 {#1715
          date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1716 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1739 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1740 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2465 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2463 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2411 …}
        -id: 207711
        -bodyTs: "'accus':22 'aggress':6 'around':79 'attack':66 'basic':106 'brought':47 'comment':55 'concept':41 'didn':26 'even':115 'explic':46 'figur':7 'form':12 'get':28 'ghost':94 'hand':78 'hard':14 'hasn':43 'hold':123 'hope':119 'implicit':57,116 'interpret':3 'isn':86 'labor':82 'labour':33 'least':51 'like':70 'marx':42 'marxist':40 'meant':98 'mention':117 'misunderstand':125 'object':88 'one':112 'origin':60 'peopl':75 'post':61 'price':109 're':91 'remind':30 'say':81,107 'shadowbox':92 'sinc':100 'sorri':1,18 'text':11 'theori':34,83 'thing':24 'thought':63,96 'tone':9 'true':89 'umm':71 'valu':36,85,108 'wasn':113 'wave':76 'wrong':21 'yet':49"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485494"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975943 {#1714
          date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207711
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2458
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2461 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Where?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701976885 {#2422
          date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2456 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2453 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2457 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2455 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2468 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2469 …}
        -id: 207782
        -bodyTs: ""
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485802"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701976885 {#2462
          date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207782
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2370 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Don’t the two correlate?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701977809 {#2471
          date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2377 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2359 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2364 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2380 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2382 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2384 …}
        -id: 207842
        -bodyTs: "'correl':5 'two':4"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486088"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977809 {#2371
          date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207842
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          > Well now i’m confused. If ‘labor theory of value isn’t objectively true’ isn’t making an argument about the price of a commodity not being equal to the labor it embodies, I am not sure what you’re trying to say by it.\n
          \n
          A theory o value doesn’t necessarily say anything about price. As you said: “value != price”.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701977944 {#2379
          date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1909 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1926 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1874 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1908 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1883 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2389 …}
        -id: 207854
        -bodyTs: "'anyth':54 'argument':19 'commod':25 'confus':5 'doesn':50 'embodi':33 'equal':28 'isn':11,15 'labor':7,31 'm':4 'make':17 'necessarili':52 'o':48 'object':13 'price':22,56,61 're':40 'said':59 'say':43,53 'sure':37 'theori':8,47 'tri':41 'true':14 'valu':10,49,60 'well':1"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486136"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373971 {#2381
          date: 2023-12-24 00:26:11.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977944 {#2383
          date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207854
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2030 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          As far as I understand: Price tries to measure value. Therefore: A price needs a value, but value doesn’t need price. They correlate but are not the same.\n
          \n
          Were am I making the mistake? Genuine question.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980069 {#1403
          date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2032 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2024 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2018 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2011 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2021 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2029 …}
        -id: 207987
        -bodyTs: "'correl':24 'doesn':19 'far':2 'genuin':36 'make':33 'measur':9 'mistak':35 'need':14,21 'price':6,13,22 'question':37 'therefor':11 'tri':7 'understand':5 'valu':10,16,18"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487031"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980069 {#2019
          date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207987
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2393 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          There’s not even academical consensus what value actually *is*, AFAIK. Do preasts add value to anything with their labour? If not: Do social counsellors? What if a priest acts as a counsellor? Ask different economists with their theories of value and you’ll get several answers.\n
          \n
          Economic theories aren’t as rigid as theories from the natural sciences or mathematics. They are dependent on the culture in which they are perceived. A non-capitalist society would have different theories or value (or none at all) than we do.\n
          \n
          [This guy can explain it properly](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw), I’m not an economist and kinda regret making that comment.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 6
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701979923 {#2387
          date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@JayDee@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1384 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1383 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1405 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1382 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1404 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1361 …}
        -id: 207981
        -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':99 'academ':5 'act':30 'actual':9 'add':14 'afaik':11 'answer':47 'anyth':17 'aren':50 'ask':34 'capitalist':76 'comment':110 'consensus':6 'counsellor':25,33 'cultur':67 'depend':64 'differ':35,80 'econom':48 'economist':36,104 'even':4 'explain':94 'get':45 'guy':92 'kinda':106 'labour':20 'll':44 'm':101 'make':108 'mathemat':61 'natur':58 'non':75 'non-capitalist':74 'none':85 'perceiv':72 'preast':13 'priest':29 'proper':96 'regret':107 'rigid':53 'scienc':59 'sever':46 'social':24 'societi':77 'theori':39,49,55,81 'valu':8,15,41,83 'would':78 'www.youtube.com':98 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':97"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486914"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373897 {#2392
          date: 2023-12-24 00:24:57.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701979923 {#2394
          date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207981
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096}
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2035 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          It’s an economic theory and therefore more to be understood as a model on how economics work.\n
          \n
          The natural sciences have a hard core. The theory of gravity depends on how matter interacts in an objective, physical framework. Economic theories basically describe human interaction which are based on psychology and sociology. Therefore they depend on the societal context they are made in.\n
          \n
          If you understand them as models that are tools on how to understand the world, they become more useful in political analysis (I know we are in a meme community here, but everything is politics and so on and so on…).\n
          \n
          I do subscribe to many conclusions the labour theory of value and especially Marx came to. But I want y’all to *remember* that the theory is a mere tool for understanding and not a sacred, holy theory.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980460 {#2020
          date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2031 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2037 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2075 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2079 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2078 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2097 …}
        -id: 208027
        -bodyTs: "'analysi':85 'base':48 'basic':42 'becom':80 'came':119 'communiti':93 'conclus':110 'context':59 'core':25 'depend':30,55 'describ':43 'econom':4,17,40 'especi':117 'everyth':96 'framework':39 'graviti':29 'hard':24 'holi':141 'human':44 'interact':34,45 'know':87 'labour':112 'made':62 'mani':109 'marx':118 'matter':33 'meme':92 'mere':133 'model':14,69 'natur':20 'object':37 'physic':38 'polit':84,98 'psycholog':50 'rememb':127 'sacr':140 'scienc':21 'societ':58 'sociolog':52 'subscrib':107 'theori':5,27,41,113,130,142 'therefor':7,53 'tool':72,134 'understand':66,76,136 'understood':11 'use':82 'valu':115 'want':123 'work':18 'world':78 'y':124"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487165"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980460 {#2013
          date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208027
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2094
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2241 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          > Why the neutral language all of a sudden?\n
          \n
          I was trying to be understood a bit better.\n
          \n
          > Are you trying to say 'all economic theories and models are not objectively true"?\n
          \n
          Not explicitally, but yeah: models aren’t used for “objective truth”. They’re used to *model* (i.e. simplify) reality to make observations and guesses for the future.\n
          \n
          > Why would that be worth saying in response to the OP?\n
          \n
          I feel like a lot of leftists think that understanding economics starts and ends with “capitalists exploit the labouring class”, while not actually engaging with the subject matter. I guess most can’t even explain LTV properly before getting mad at capitalists.\n
          \n
          As I’ve written before: I agree with most conclusions of marxist analysis that I know and I probably don’t even know half of them. But I think that political analysis should use LTV as a tool to understand the world and not the end of socio-economical disgussion (because that would ignore important parts of today’s economy).\n
          \n
          > It really just seems like you disagree with the ‘your stolen labor value’ claim in the OP, and are attributing it to the ‘labor theory of value’\n
          \n
          I don’t. I wanted to remind people as to make political analysis not too easy by taking the mental shortcut of reducing current capitalism on the problems pointed out by Marx rendition of LTV.\n
          \n
          > (as opposed to dismissing it because you disagree with some portion of the theory you’ve neglected to mention)\n
          \n
          I don’t disagree. I also don’t disagree with the atomic model of Niels Bohr when it comes to calculating electron potential. When it comes to observing e.g. electron spin, that particular model will probably fall flat. That doesn’t mean I “disagree” with the model, though.\n
          \n
          > My hunch is that you don’t feel confident enough in your understanding to make any kind of firm claim and are just dancing around making vague gestures toward ‘labor’ and ‘value’ definitions as a way of avoiding it.\n
          \n
          I’m not too confident in my economic knowledge, true. But I *am* quite confident in how models should be used in soft sciences.\n
          \n
          Addendum: I’d like to kindly ask you to give me a little bit of benefit of the doubt. Otherwise, I’ll just disengage due to that accusatory tone I’m getting from you being a bit exhausting.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701985632 {#2090
          date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2140 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2133 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2131 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2138 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2345 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2330 …}
        -id: 208351
        -bodyTs: "'accusatori':392 'actual':92 'addendum':365 'agre':118 'also':259 'analysi':124,143,212 'aren':37 'around':326 'ask':371 'atom':265 'attribut':192 'avoid':339 'benefit':380 'better':17 'bit':16,378,401 'bohr':269 'calcul':274 'capit':224 'capitalist':85,111 'claim':186,321 'class':89 'come':272,279 'conclus':121 'confid':310,345,355 'current':223 'd':367 'danc':325 'definit':334 'disagre':179,242,257,262,297 'disengag':388 'disguss':162 'dismiss':238 'doesn':293 'doubt':383 'due':389 'e.g':282 'easi':215 'econom':24,80,161,348 'economi':172 'electron':275,283 'end':83,157 'engag':93 'enough':311 'even':103,133 'exhaust':402 'explain':104 'explicit':33 'exploit':86 'fall':290 'feel':71,309 'firm':320 'flat':291 'futur':58 'gestur':329 'get':108,396 'give':374 'guess':55,99 'half':135 'hunch':303 'i.e':48 'ignor':166 'import':167 'kind':318,370 'know':127,134 'knowledg':349 'labor':184,196,331 'labour':88 'languag':4 'leftist':76 'like':72,177,368 'littl':377 'll':386 'lot':74 'ltv':105,146,234 'm':342,395 'mad':109 'make':52,210,316,327 'marx':231 'marxist':123 'matter':97 'mean':295 'mental':219 'mention':253 'model':27,36,47,266,287,300,358 'neglect':251 'neutral':3 'niel':268 'object':30,41 'observ':53,281 'op':69,189 'oppos':236 'otherwis':384 'part':168 'particular':286 'peopl':207 'point':228 'polit':142,211 'portion':245 'potenti':276 'probabl':130,289 'problem':227 'proper':106 'quit':354 're':44 'realiti':50 'realli':174 'reduc':222 'remind':206 'rendit':232 'respons':66 'say':22,64 'scienc':364 'seem':176 'shortcut':220 'simplifi':49 'socio':160 'socio-econom':159 'soft':363 'spin':284 'start':81 'stolen':183 'subject':96 'sudden':8 'take':217 'theori':25,197,248 'think':77,140 'though':301 'today':170 'tone':393 'tool':149 'toward':330 'tri':11,20 'true':31,350 'truth':42 'understand':79,151,314 'understood':14 'use':39,45,145,361 'vagu':328 'valu':185,199,333 've':114,250 'want':204 'way':337 'world':153 'worth':63 'would':60,165 'written':115 'yeah':35"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5489133"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703384328 {#2093
          date: 2023-12-24 03:18:48.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701985632 {#2092
          date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208351
      }
    ]
    -id: 20852
    -titleTs: "'enemi':3 'know':1"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1702038246
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemmy.ml/post/8990722"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701951846 {#2506
      date: 2023-12-07 13:24:06.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2062 …}
  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
  +body: "I wouldn’t have been able to write it this consise, but that’s kind of one thing I wanted to point towards in my original comment."
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 1
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1701980622 {#2082
    date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
    "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
    "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2081 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2098 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2080 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2089 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2095 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2091 …}
  -id: 208044
  -bodyTs: "'abl':6 'comment':27 'consis':11 'kind':15 'one':17 'origin':26 'point':22 'thing':18 'toward':23 'want':20 'wouldn':2 'write':8"
  +ranking: 0
  +commentCount: 0
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487230"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980622 {#2085
    date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 208044
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
48 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2003 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2559 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2581 …}
    +slug: "Know-your-enemy"
    +title: "Know your enemy"
    +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/4e8abd58-e357-4836-88ce-d57b36597f6b.jpeg"
    +body: null
    +type: "image"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: true
    +commentCount: 76
    +favouriteCount: 676
    +score: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +sticky: false
    +lastActive: DateTime @1702111873 {#2346
      date: 2023-12-09 09:51:13.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2580 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2578 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2575 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2609 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2605 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2622 …}
    +children: [
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1604 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
          +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
          +image: null
          +parent: null
          +root: null
          +body: """
            Reminder that while the labour theory of value can be practical to understand certain aspects of society, it is still culturally biased and not “objectively” true.\n
            \n
            What creates value can only be answered in a cultural framework.
            """
          +lang: "en"
          +isAdult: false
          +favouriteCount: 12
          +score: 0
          +lastActive: DateTime @1703499828 {#1580
            date: 2023-12-25 11:23:48.0 +01:00
          }
          +ip: null
          +tags: null
          +mentions: [
            "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          ]
          +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1561 …}
          +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1564 …}
          +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1563 …}
          +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1565 …}
          +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1558 …}
          +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1557 …}
          -id: 206964
          -bodyTs: "'answer':33 'aspect':15 'bias':22 'certain':14 'creat':28 'cultur':21,36 'framework':37 'labour':5 'object':25 'practic':11 'remind':1 'societi':17 'still':20 'theori':6 'true':26 'understand':13 'valu':8,29"
          +ranking: 0
          +commentCount: 0
          +upVotes: 0
          +downVotes: 0
          +visibility: "visible             "
          +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5480766"
          +editedAt: null
          +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701964861 {#1550
            date: 2023-12-07 17:01:01.0 +01:00
          }
          +"title": 206964
        }
        +body: """
          You’re right. It’s *one* theory. There is however ongoing debate on which theory is “correct”.\n
          \n
          This vid explains it quite well and with Simpsons clips so the hour of video is bearable:\n
          \n
          [www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw)
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701971365 {#1621
          date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1596 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1702 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1683 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1680 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1686 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1692 …}
        -id: 207387
        -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':37 'bearabl':34 'clip':27 'correct':17 'debat':12 'explain':20 'hour':30 'howev':10 'one':6 'ongo':11 'quit':22 're':2 'right':3 'simpson':26 'theori':7,15 'vid':19 'video':32 'well':23 'www.youtube.com':36 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':35"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5483715"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701971365 {#1620
          date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207387
      }
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1721
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1726 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Umm… Thanks for that unnecessarily aggressive seeming and a bit incompehensible addendum, I guess?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 4
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701975001 {#1723
          date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1728 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1730 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1734 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1727 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1733 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1724 …}
        -id: 207642
        -bodyTs: "'addendum':12 'aggress':6 'bit':10 'guess':14 'incompehens':11 'seem':7 'thank':2 'umm':1 'unnecessarili':5"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485206"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975001 {#1722
          date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207642
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1616
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1611 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          I was talking about the theory, not value. Sorry if that didn’t come across.\n
          \n
          Now that I think about it: isn’t value culturally determined in many things? Why are apple products more expensive than other computers with the same specs? Why is a ticket to a Billie Eilish concert more valuable than one to my neighbor’s indie rock band?
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701974894 {#1705
          date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1598 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1629 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1626 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1618 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1597 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1731 …}
        -id: 207637
        -bodyTs: "'across':15 'appl':32 'band':62 'billi':49 'come':14 'comput':38 'concert':51 'cultur':25 'determin':26 'didn':12 'eilish':50 'expens':35 'indi':60 'isn':22 'mani':28 'neighbor':58 'one':55 'product':33 'rock':61 'sorri':9 'spec':42 'talk':3 'theori':6 'thing':29 'think':19 'ticket':46 'valu':8,24 'valuabl':53"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485163"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701974894 {#1711
          date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207637
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1718
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1720 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          Sorry, I interpreted it as aggressive. Figuring out tone in text form is hard and all that. Sorry that I wrongly accused you.\n
          \n
          Things I didn’t get:\n
          \n
          > A reminder that the labour theory of value is not a marxist concept.\n
          \n
          Marx hasn’t been explicity brought up yet (at least not in my comment). Only implicitly in the original post. Again: thought you were attacking me and was like “umm… So what?”\n
          \n
          > When people wave their hands around and say “labor theory of value isn’t objectively true!!”, they’re shadowboxing a ghost.\n
          \n
          I thought you meant me, since that was what I was basically saying. 😅\n
          \n
          > Value != price\n
          \n
          Now, that one wasn’t even implicitly mentioned.\n
          \n
          I hope you don’t hold my misunderstanding against me.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 3
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701975943 {#1715
          date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1716 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1739 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1740 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2465 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2463 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2411 …}
        -id: 207711
        -bodyTs: "'accus':22 'aggress':6 'around':79 'attack':66 'basic':106 'brought':47 'comment':55 'concept':41 'didn':26 'even':115 'explic':46 'figur':7 'form':12 'get':28 'ghost':94 'hand':78 'hard':14 'hasn':43 'hold':123 'hope':119 'implicit':57,116 'interpret':3 'isn':86 'labor':82 'labour':33 'least':51 'like':70 'marx':42 'marxist':40 'meant':98 'mention':117 'misunderstand':125 'object':88 'one':112 'origin':60 'peopl':75 'post':61 'price':109 're':91 'remind':30 'say':81,107 'shadowbox':92 'sinc':100 'sorri':1,18 'text':11 'theori':34,83 'thing':24 'thought':63,96 'tone':9 'true':89 'umm':71 'valu':36,85,108 'wasn':113 'wave':76 'wrong':21 'yet':49"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485494"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975943 {#1714
          date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207711
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2458
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2461 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Where?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701976885 {#2422
          date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2456 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2453 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2457 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2455 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2468 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2469 …}
        -id: 207782
        -bodyTs: ""
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485802"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701976885 {#2462
          date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207782
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2370 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Don’t the two correlate?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701977809 {#2471
          date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2377 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2359 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2364 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2380 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2382 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2384 …}
        -id: 207842
        -bodyTs: "'correl':5 'two':4"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486088"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977809 {#2371
          date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207842
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          > Well now i’m confused. If ‘labor theory of value isn’t objectively true’ isn’t making an argument about the price of a commodity not being equal to the labor it embodies, I am not sure what you’re trying to say by it.\n
          \n
          A theory o value doesn’t necessarily say anything about price. As you said: “value != price”.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701977944 {#2379
          date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1909 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1926 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1874 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1908 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1883 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2389 …}
        -id: 207854
        -bodyTs: "'anyth':54 'argument':19 'commod':25 'confus':5 'doesn':50 'embodi':33 'equal':28 'isn':11,15 'labor':7,31 'm':4 'make':17 'necessarili':52 'o':48 'object':13 'price':22,56,61 're':40 'said':59 'say':43,53 'sure':37 'theori':8,47 'tri':41 'true':14 'valu':10,49,60 'well':1"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486136"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373971 {#2381
          date: 2023-12-24 00:26:11.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977944 {#2383
          date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207854
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2030 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          As far as I understand: Price tries to measure value. Therefore: A price needs a value, but value doesn’t need price. They correlate but are not the same.\n
          \n
          Were am I making the mistake? Genuine question.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980069 {#1403
          date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2032 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2024 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2018 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2011 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2021 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2029 …}
        -id: 207987
        -bodyTs: "'correl':24 'doesn':19 'far':2 'genuin':36 'make':33 'measur':9 'mistak':35 'need':14,21 'price':6,13,22 'question':37 'therefor':11 'tri':7 'understand':5 'valu':10,16,18"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487031"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980069 {#2019
          date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207987
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2393 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          There’s not even academical consensus what value actually *is*, AFAIK. Do preasts add value to anything with their labour? If not: Do social counsellors? What if a priest acts as a counsellor? Ask different economists with their theories of value and you’ll get several answers.\n
          \n
          Economic theories aren’t as rigid as theories from the natural sciences or mathematics. They are dependent on the culture in which they are perceived. A non-capitalist society would have different theories or value (or none at all) than we do.\n
          \n
          [This guy can explain it properly](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw), I’m not an economist and kinda regret making that comment.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 6
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701979923 {#2387
          date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@JayDee@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1384 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1383 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1405 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1382 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1404 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1361 …}
        -id: 207981
        -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':99 'academ':5 'act':30 'actual':9 'add':14 'afaik':11 'answer':47 'anyth':17 'aren':50 'ask':34 'capitalist':76 'comment':110 'consensus':6 'counsellor':25,33 'cultur':67 'depend':64 'differ':35,80 'econom':48 'economist':36,104 'even':4 'explain':94 'get':45 'guy':92 'kinda':106 'labour':20 'll':44 'm':101 'make':108 'mathemat':61 'natur':58 'non':75 'non-capitalist':74 'none':85 'perceiv':72 'preast':13 'priest':29 'proper':96 'regret':107 'rigid':53 'scienc':59 'sever':46 'social':24 'societi':77 'theori':39,49,55,81 'valu':8,15,41,83 'would':78 'www.youtube.com':98 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':97"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486914"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373897 {#2392
          date: 2023-12-24 00:24:57.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701979923 {#2394
          date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207981
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096}
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2035 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          It’s an economic theory and therefore more to be understood as a model on how economics work.\n
          \n
          The natural sciences have a hard core. The theory of gravity depends on how matter interacts in an objective, physical framework. Economic theories basically describe human interaction which are based on psychology and sociology. Therefore they depend on the societal context they are made in.\n
          \n
          If you understand them as models that are tools on how to understand the world, they become more useful in political analysis (I know we are in a meme community here, but everything is politics and so on and so on…).\n
          \n
          I do subscribe to many conclusions the labour theory of value and especially Marx came to. But I want y’all to *remember* that the theory is a mere tool for understanding and not a sacred, holy theory.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980460 {#2020
          date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2031 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2037 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2075 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2079 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2078 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2097 …}
        -id: 208027
        -bodyTs: "'analysi':85 'base':48 'basic':42 'becom':80 'came':119 'communiti':93 'conclus':110 'context':59 'core':25 'depend':30,55 'describ':43 'econom':4,17,40 'especi':117 'everyth':96 'framework':39 'graviti':29 'hard':24 'holi':141 'human':44 'interact':34,45 'know':87 'labour':112 'made':62 'mani':109 'marx':118 'matter':33 'meme':92 'mere':133 'model':14,69 'natur':20 'object':37 'physic':38 'polit':84,98 'psycholog':50 'rememb':127 'sacr':140 'scienc':21 'societ':58 'sociolog':52 'subscrib':107 'theori':5,27,41,113,130,142 'therefor':7,53 'tool':72,134 'understand':66,76,136 'understood':11 'use':82 'valu':115 'want':123 'work':18 'world':78 'y':124"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487165"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980460 {#2013
          date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208027
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2094
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2241 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          > Why the neutral language all of a sudden?\n
          \n
          I was trying to be understood a bit better.\n
          \n
          > Are you trying to say 'all economic theories and models are not objectively true"?\n
          \n
          Not explicitally, but yeah: models aren’t used for “objective truth”. They’re used to *model* (i.e. simplify) reality to make observations and guesses for the future.\n
          \n
          > Why would that be worth saying in response to the OP?\n
          \n
          I feel like a lot of leftists think that understanding economics starts and ends with “capitalists exploit the labouring class”, while not actually engaging with the subject matter. I guess most can’t even explain LTV properly before getting mad at capitalists.\n
          \n
          As I’ve written before: I agree with most conclusions of marxist analysis that I know and I probably don’t even know half of them. But I think that political analysis should use LTV as a tool to understand the world and not the end of socio-economical disgussion (because that would ignore important parts of today’s economy).\n
          \n
          > It really just seems like you disagree with the ‘your stolen labor value’ claim in the OP, and are attributing it to the ‘labor theory of value’\n
          \n
          I don’t. I wanted to remind people as to make political analysis not too easy by taking the mental shortcut of reducing current capitalism on the problems pointed out by Marx rendition of LTV.\n
          \n
          > (as opposed to dismissing it because you disagree with some portion of the theory you’ve neglected to mention)\n
          \n
          I don’t disagree. I also don’t disagree with the atomic model of Niels Bohr when it comes to calculating electron potential. When it comes to observing e.g. electron spin, that particular model will probably fall flat. That doesn’t mean I “disagree” with the model, though.\n
          \n
          > My hunch is that you don’t feel confident enough in your understanding to make any kind of firm claim and are just dancing around making vague gestures toward ‘labor’ and ‘value’ definitions as a way of avoiding it.\n
          \n
          I’m not too confident in my economic knowledge, true. But I *am* quite confident in how models should be used in soft sciences.\n
          \n
          Addendum: I’d like to kindly ask you to give me a little bit of benefit of the doubt. Otherwise, I’ll just disengage due to that accusatory tone I’m getting from you being a bit exhausting.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701985632 {#2090
          date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2140 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2133 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2131 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2138 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2345 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2330 …}
        -id: 208351
        -bodyTs: "'accusatori':392 'actual':92 'addendum':365 'agre':118 'also':259 'analysi':124,143,212 'aren':37 'around':326 'ask':371 'atom':265 'attribut':192 'avoid':339 'benefit':380 'better':17 'bit':16,378,401 'bohr':269 'calcul':274 'capit':224 'capitalist':85,111 'claim':186,321 'class':89 'come':272,279 'conclus':121 'confid':310,345,355 'current':223 'd':367 'danc':325 'definit':334 'disagre':179,242,257,262,297 'disengag':388 'disguss':162 'dismiss':238 'doesn':293 'doubt':383 'due':389 'e.g':282 'easi':215 'econom':24,80,161,348 'economi':172 'electron':275,283 'end':83,157 'engag':93 'enough':311 'even':103,133 'exhaust':402 'explain':104 'explicit':33 'exploit':86 'fall':290 'feel':71,309 'firm':320 'flat':291 'futur':58 'gestur':329 'get':108,396 'give':374 'guess':55,99 'half':135 'hunch':303 'i.e':48 'ignor':166 'import':167 'kind':318,370 'know':127,134 'knowledg':349 'labor':184,196,331 'labour':88 'languag':4 'leftist':76 'like':72,177,368 'littl':377 'll':386 'lot':74 'ltv':105,146,234 'm':342,395 'mad':109 'make':52,210,316,327 'marx':231 'marxist':123 'matter':97 'mean':295 'mental':219 'mention':253 'model':27,36,47,266,287,300,358 'neglect':251 'neutral':3 'niel':268 'object':30,41 'observ':53,281 'op':69,189 'oppos':236 'otherwis':384 'part':168 'particular':286 'peopl':207 'point':228 'polit':142,211 'portion':245 'potenti':276 'probabl':130,289 'problem':227 'proper':106 'quit':354 're':44 'realiti':50 'realli':174 'reduc':222 'remind':206 'rendit':232 'respons':66 'say':22,64 'scienc':364 'seem':176 'shortcut':220 'simplifi':49 'socio':160 'socio-econom':159 'soft':363 'spin':284 'start':81 'stolen':183 'subject':96 'sudden':8 'take':217 'theori':25,197,248 'think':77,140 'though':301 'today':170 'tone':393 'tool':149 'toward':330 'tri':11,20 'true':31,350 'truth':42 'understand':79,151,314 'understood':14 'use':39,45,145,361 'vagu':328 'valu':185,199,333 've':114,250 'want':204 'way':337 'world':153 'worth':63 'would':60,165 'written':115 'yeah':35"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5489133"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703384328 {#2093
          date: 2023-12-24 03:18:48.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701985632 {#2092
          date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208351
      }
    ]
    -id: 20852
    -titleTs: "'enemi':3 'know':1"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1702038246
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemmy.ml/post/8990722"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701951846 {#2506
      date: 2023-12-07 13:24:06.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2062 …}
  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
  +body: "I wouldn’t have been able to write it this consise, but that’s kind of one thing I wanted to point towards in my original comment."
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 1
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1701980622 {#2082
    date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
    "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
    "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2081 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2098 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2080 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2089 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2095 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2091 …}
  -id: 208044
  -bodyTs: "'abl':6 'comment':27 'consis':11 'kind':15 'one':17 'origin':26 'point':22 'thing':18 'toward':23 'want':20 'wouldn':2 'write':8"
  +ranking: 0
  +commentCount: 0
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487230"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980622 {#2085
    date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 208044
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
49 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
50 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2003 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2559 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2581 …}
    +slug: "Know-your-enemy"
    +title: "Know your enemy"
    +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/4e8abd58-e357-4836-88ce-d57b36597f6b.jpeg"
    +body: null
    +type: "image"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: true
    +commentCount: 76
    +favouriteCount: 676
    +score: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +sticky: false
    +lastActive: DateTime @1702111873 {#2346
      date: 2023-12-09 09:51:13.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2580 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2578 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2575 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2609 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2605 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2622 …}
    +children: [
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1604 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
          +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
          +image: null
          +parent: null
          +root: null
          +body: """
            Reminder that while the labour theory of value can be practical to understand certain aspects of society, it is still culturally biased and not “objectively” true.\n
            \n
            What creates value can only be answered in a cultural framework.
            """
          +lang: "en"
          +isAdult: false
          +favouriteCount: 12
          +score: 0
          +lastActive: DateTime @1703499828 {#1580
            date: 2023-12-25 11:23:48.0 +01:00
          }
          +ip: null
          +tags: null
          +mentions: [
            "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          ]
          +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1561 …}
          +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1564 …}
          +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1563 …}
          +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1565 …}
          +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1558 …}
          +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1557 …}
          -id: 206964
          -bodyTs: "'answer':33 'aspect':15 'bias':22 'certain':14 'creat':28 'cultur':21,36 'framework':37 'labour':5 'object':25 'practic':11 'remind':1 'societi':17 'still':20 'theori':6 'true':26 'understand':13 'valu':8,29"
          +ranking: 0
          +commentCount: 0
          +upVotes: 0
          +downVotes: 0
          +visibility: "visible             "
          +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5480766"
          +editedAt: null
          +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701964861 {#1550
            date: 2023-12-07 17:01:01.0 +01:00
          }
          +"title": 206964
        }
        +body: """
          You’re right. It’s *one* theory. There is however ongoing debate on which theory is “correct”.\n
          \n
          This vid explains it quite well and with Simpsons clips so the hour of video is bearable:\n
          \n
          [www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw)
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701971365 {#1621
          date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1596 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1702 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1683 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1680 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1686 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1692 …}
        -id: 207387
        -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':37 'bearabl':34 'clip':27 'correct':17 'debat':12 'explain':20 'hour':30 'howev':10 'one':6 'ongo':11 'quit':22 're':2 'right':3 'simpson':26 'theori':7,15 'vid':19 'video':32 'well':23 'www.youtube.com':36 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':35"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5483715"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701971365 {#1620
          date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207387
      }
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1721
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1726 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Umm… Thanks for that unnecessarily aggressive seeming and a bit incompehensible addendum, I guess?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 4
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701975001 {#1723
          date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1728 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1730 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1734 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1727 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1733 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1724 …}
        -id: 207642
        -bodyTs: "'addendum':12 'aggress':6 'bit':10 'guess':14 'incompehens':11 'seem':7 'thank':2 'umm':1 'unnecessarili':5"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485206"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975001 {#1722
          date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207642
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1616
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1611 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          I was talking about the theory, not value. Sorry if that didn’t come across.\n
          \n
          Now that I think about it: isn’t value culturally determined in many things? Why are apple products more expensive than other computers with the same specs? Why is a ticket to a Billie Eilish concert more valuable than one to my neighbor’s indie rock band?
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701974894 {#1705
          date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1598 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1629 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1626 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1618 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1597 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1731 …}
        -id: 207637
        -bodyTs: "'across':15 'appl':32 'band':62 'billi':49 'come':14 'comput':38 'concert':51 'cultur':25 'determin':26 'didn':12 'eilish':50 'expens':35 'indi':60 'isn':22 'mani':28 'neighbor':58 'one':55 'product':33 'rock':61 'sorri':9 'spec':42 'talk':3 'theori':6 'thing':29 'think':19 'ticket':46 'valu':8,24 'valuabl':53"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485163"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701974894 {#1711
          date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207637
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1718
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1720 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          Sorry, I interpreted it as aggressive. Figuring out tone in text form is hard and all that. Sorry that I wrongly accused you.\n
          \n
          Things I didn’t get:\n
          \n
          > A reminder that the labour theory of value is not a marxist concept.\n
          \n
          Marx hasn’t been explicity brought up yet (at least not in my comment). Only implicitly in the original post. Again: thought you were attacking me and was like “umm… So what?”\n
          \n
          > When people wave their hands around and say “labor theory of value isn’t objectively true!!”, they’re shadowboxing a ghost.\n
          \n
          I thought you meant me, since that was what I was basically saying. 😅\n
          \n
          > Value != price\n
          \n
          Now, that one wasn’t even implicitly mentioned.\n
          \n
          I hope you don’t hold my misunderstanding against me.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 3
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701975943 {#1715
          date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1716 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1739 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1740 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2465 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2463 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2411 …}
        -id: 207711
        -bodyTs: "'accus':22 'aggress':6 'around':79 'attack':66 'basic':106 'brought':47 'comment':55 'concept':41 'didn':26 'even':115 'explic':46 'figur':7 'form':12 'get':28 'ghost':94 'hand':78 'hard':14 'hasn':43 'hold':123 'hope':119 'implicit':57,116 'interpret':3 'isn':86 'labor':82 'labour':33 'least':51 'like':70 'marx':42 'marxist':40 'meant':98 'mention':117 'misunderstand':125 'object':88 'one':112 'origin':60 'peopl':75 'post':61 'price':109 're':91 'remind':30 'say':81,107 'shadowbox':92 'sinc':100 'sorri':1,18 'text':11 'theori':34,83 'thing':24 'thought':63,96 'tone':9 'true':89 'umm':71 'valu':36,85,108 'wasn':113 'wave':76 'wrong':21 'yet':49"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485494"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975943 {#1714
          date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207711
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2458
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2461 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Where?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701976885 {#2422
          date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2456 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2453 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2457 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2455 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2468 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2469 …}
        -id: 207782
        -bodyTs: ""
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485802"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701976885 {#2462
          date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207782
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2370 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Don’t the two correlate?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701977809 {#2471
          date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2377 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2359 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2364 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2380 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2382 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2384 …}
        -id: 207842
        -bodyTs: "'correl':5 'two':4"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486088"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977809 {#2371
          date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207842
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          > Well now i’m confused. If ‘labor theory of value isn’t objectively true’ isn’t making an argument about the price of a commodity not being equal to the labor it embodies, I am not sure what you’re trying to say by it.\n
          \n
          A theory o value doesn’t necessarily say anything about price. As you said: “value != price”.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701977944 {#2379
          date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1909 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1926 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1874 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1908 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1883 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2389 …}
        -id: 207854
        -bodyTs: "'anyth':54 'argument':19 'commod':25 'confus':5 'doesn':50 'embodi':33 'equal':28 'isn':11,15 'labor':7,31 'm':4 'make':17 'necessarili':52 'o':48 'object':13 'price':22,56,61 're':40 'said':59 'say':43,53 'sure':37 'theori':8,47 'tri':41 'true':14 'valu':10,49,60 'well':1"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486136"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373971 {#2381
          date: 2023-12-24 00:26:11.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977944 {#2383
          date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207854
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2030 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          As far as I understand: Price tries to measure value. Therefore: A price needs a value, but value doesn’t need price. They correlate but are not the same.\n
          \n
          Were am I making the mistake? Genuine question.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980069 {#1403
          date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2032 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2024 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2018 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2011 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2021 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2029 …}
        -id: 207987
        -bodyTs: "'correl':24 'doesn':19 'far':2 'genuin':36 'make':33 'measur':9 'mistak':35 'need':14,21 'price':6,13,22 'question':37 'therefor':11 'tri':7 'understand':5 'valu':10,16,18"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487031"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980069 {#2019
          date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207987
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2393 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          There’s not even academical consensus what value actually *is*, AFAIK. Do preasts add value to anything with their labour? If not: Do social counsellors? What if a priest acts as a counsellor? Ask different economists with their theories of value and you’ll get several answers.\n
          \n
          Economic theories aren’t as rigid as theories from the natural sciences or mathematics. They are dependent on the culture in which they are perceived. A non-capitalist society would have different theories or value (or none at all) than we do.\n
          \n
          [This guy can explain it properly](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw), I’m not an economist and kinda regret making that comment.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 6
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701979923 {#2387
          date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@JayDee@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1384 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1383 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1405 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1382 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1404 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1361 …}
        -id: 207981
        -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':99 'academ':5 'act':30 'actual':9 'add':14 'afaik':11 'answer':47 'anyth':17 'aren':50 'ask':34 'capitalist':76 'comment':110 'consensus':6 'counsellor':25,33 'cultur':67 'depend':64 'differ':35,80 'econom':48 'economist':36,104 'even':4 'explain':94 'get':45 'guy':92 'kinda':106 'labour':20 'll':44 'm':101 'make':108 'mathemat':61 'natur':58 'non':75 'non-capitalist':74 'none':85 'perceiv':72 'preast':13 'priest':29 'proper':96 'regret':107 'rigid':53 'scienc':59 'sever':46 'social':24 'societi':77 'theori':39,49,55,81 'valu':8,15,41,83 'would':78 'www.youtube.com':98 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':97"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486914"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373897 {#2392
          date: 2023-12-24 00:24:57.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701979923 {#2394
          date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207981
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2062 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "I wouldn’t have been able to write it this consise, but that’s kind of one thing I wanted to point towards in my original comment."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980622 {#2082
          date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2081 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2098 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2080 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2089 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2095 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2091 …}
        -id: 208044
        -bodyTs: "'abl':6 'comment':27 'consis':11 'kind':15 'one':17 'origin':26 'point':22 'thing':18 'toward':23 'want':20 'wouldn':2 'write':8"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487230"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980622 {#2085
          date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208044
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027}
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2094
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2241 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          > Why the neutral language all of a sudden?\n
          \n
          I was trying to be understood a bit better.\n
          \n
          > Are you trying to say 'all economic theories and models are not objectively true"?\n
          \n
          Not explicitally, but yeah: models aren’t used for “objective truth”. They’re used to *model* (i.e. simplify) reality to make observations and guesses for the future.\n
          \n
          > Why would that be worth saying in response to the OP?\n
          \n
          I feel like a lot of leftists think that understanding economics starts and ends with “capitalists exploit the labouring class”, while not actually engaging with the subject matter. I guess most can’t even explain LTV properly before getting mad at capitalists.\n
          \n
          As I’ve written before: I agree with most conclusions of marxist analysis that I know and I probably don’t even know half of them. But I think that political analysis should use LTV as a tool to understand the world and not the end of socio-economical disgussion (because that would ignore important parts of today’s economy).\n
          \n
          > It really just seems like you disagree with the ‘your stolen labor value’ claim in the OP, and are attributing it to the ‘labor theory of value’\n
          \n
          I don’t. I wanted to remind people as to make political analysis not too easy by taking the mental shortcut of reducing current capitalism on the problems pointed out by Marx rendition of LTV.\n
          \n
          > (as opposed to dismissing it because you disagree with some portion of the theory you’ve neglected to mention)\n
          \n
          I don’t disagree. I also don’t disagree with the atomic model of Niels Bohr when it comes to calculating electron potential. When it comes to observing e.g. electron spin, that particular model will probably fall flat. That doesn’t mean I “disagree” with the model, though.\n
          \n
          > My hunch is that you don’t feel confident enough in your understanding to make any kind of firm claim and are just dancing around making vague gestures toward ‘labor’ and ‘value’ definitions as a way of avoiding it.\n
          \n
          I’m not too confident in my economic knowledge, true. But I *am* quite confident in how models should be used in soft sciences.\n
          \n
          Addendum: I’d like to kindly ask you to give me a little bit of benefit of the doubt. Otherwise, I’ll just disengage due to that accusatory tone I’m getting from you being a bit exhausting.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701985632 {#2090
          date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2140 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2133 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2131 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2138 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2345 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2330 …}
        -id: 208351
        -bodyTs: "'accusatori':392 'actual':92 'addendum':365 'agre':118 'also':259 'analysi':124,143,212 'aren':37 'around':326 'ask':371 'atom':265 'attribut':192 'avoid':339 'benefit':380 'better':17 'bit':16,378,401 'bohr':269 'calcul':274 'capit':224 'capitalist':85,111 'claim':186,321 'class':89 'come':272,279 'conclus':121 'confid':310,345,355 'current':223 'd':367 'danc':325 'definit':334 'disagre':179,242,257,262,297 'disengag':388 'disguss':162 'dismiss':238 'doesn':293 'doubt':383 'due':389 'e.g':282 'easi':215 'econom':24,80,161,348 'economi':172 'electron':275,283 'end':83,157 'engag':93 'enough':311 'even':103,133 'exhaust':402 'explain':104 'explicit':33 'exploit':86 'fall':290 'feel':71,309 'firm':320 'flat':291 'futur':58 'gestur':329 'get':108,396 'give':374 'guess':55,99 'half':135 'hunch':303 'i.e':48 'ignor':166 'import':167 'kind':318,370 'know':127,134 'knowledg':349 'labor':184,196,331 'labour':88 'languag':4 'leftist':76 'like':72,177,368 'littl':377 'll':386 'lot':74 'ltv':105,146,234 'm':342,395 'mad':109 'make':52,210,316,327 'marx':231 'marxist':123 'matter':97 'mean':295 'mental':219 'mention':253 'model':27,36,47,266,287,300,358 'neglect':251 'neutral':3 'niel':268 'object':30,41 'observ':53,281 'op':69,189 'oppos':236 'otherwis':384 'part':168 'particular':286 'peopl':207 'point':228 'polit':142,211 'portion':245 'potenti':276 'probabl':130,289 'problem':227 'proper':106 'quit':354 're':44 'realiti':50 'realli':174 'reduc':222 'remind':206 'rendit':232 'respons':66 'say':22,64 'scienc':364 'seem':176 'shortcut':220 'simplifi':49 'socio':160 'socio-econom':159 'soft':363 'spin':284 'start':81 'stolen':183 'subject':96 'sudden':8 'take':217 'theori':25,197,248 'think':77,140 'though':301 'today':170 'tone':393 'tool':149 'toward':330 'tri':11,20 'true':31,350 'truth':42 'understand':79,151,314 'understood':14 'use':39,45,145,361 'vagu':328 'valu':185,199,333 've':114,250 'want':204 'way':337 'world':153 'worth':63 'would':60,165 'written':115 'yeah':35"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5489133"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703384328 {#2093
          date: 2023-12-24 03:18:48.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701985632 {#2092
          date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208351
      }
    ]
    -id: 20852
    -titleTs: "'enemi':3 'know':1"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1702038246
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemmy.ml/post/8990722"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701951846 {#2506
      date: 2023-12-07 13:24:06.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2035 …}
  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
  +body: """
    It’s an economic theory and therefore more to be understood as a model on how economics work.\n
    \n
    The natural sciences have a hard core. The theory of gravity depends on how matter interacts in an objective, physical framework. Economic theories basically describe human interaction which are based on psychology and sociology. Therefore they depend on the societal context they are made in.\n
    \n
    If you understand them as models that are tools on how to understand the world, they become more useful in political analysis (I know we are in a meme community here, but everything is politics and so on and so on…).\n
    \n
    I do subscribe to many conclusions the labour theory of value and especially Marx came to. But I want y’all to *remember* that the theory is a mere tool for understanding and not a sacred, holy theory.
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 0
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1701980460 {#2020
    date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
    "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
    "@archomrade@midwest.social"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2031 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2037 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2075 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2079 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2078 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2097 …}
  -id: 208027
  -bodyTs: "'analysi':85 'base':48 'basic':42 'becom':80 'came':119 'communiti':93 'conclus':110 'context':59 'core':25 'depend':30,55 'describ':43 'econom':4,17,40 'especi':117 'everyth':96 'framework':39 'graviti':29 'hard':24 'holi':141 'human':44 'interact':34,45 'know':87 'labour':112 'made':62 'mani':109 'marx':118 'matter':33 'meme':92 'mere':133 'model':14,69 'natur':20 'object':37 'physic':38 'polit':84,98 'psycholog':50 'rememb':127 'sacr':140 'scienc':21 'societ':58 'sociolog':52 'subscrib':107 'theori':5,27,41,113,130,142 'therefor':7,53 'tool':72,134 'understand':66,76,136 'understood':11 'use':82 'valu':115 'want':123 'work':18 'world':78 'y':124"
  +ranking: 0
  +commentCount: 0
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487165"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980460 {#2013
    date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 208027
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
51 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2003 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2559 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2581 …}
    +slug: "Know-your-enemy"
    +title: "Know your enemy"
    +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/4e8abd58-e357-4836-88ce-d57b36597f6b.jpeg"
    +body: null
    +type: "image"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: true
    +commentCount: 76
    +favouriteCount: 676
    +score: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +sticky: false
    +lastActive: DateTime @1702111873 {#2346
      date: 2023-12-09 09:51:13.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2580 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2578 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2575 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2609 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2605 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2622 …}
    +children: [
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1604 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
          +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
          +image: null
          +parent: null
          +root: null
          +body: """
            Reminder that while the labour theory of value can be practical to understand certain aspects of society, it is still culturally biased and not “objectively” true.\n
            \n
            What creates value can only be answered in a cultural framework.
            """
          +lang: "en"
          +isAdult: false
          +favouriteCount: 12
          +score: 0
          +lastActive: DateTime @1703499828 {#1580
            date: 2023-12-25 11:23:48.0 +01:00
          }
          +ip: null
          +tags: null
          +mentions: [
            "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          ]
          +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1561 …}
          +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1564 …}
          +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1563 …}
          +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1565 …}
          +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1558 …}
          +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1557 …}
          -id: 206964
          -bodyTs: "'answer':33 'aspect':15 'bias':22 'certain':14 'creat':28 'cultur':21,36 'framework':37 'labour':5 'object':25 'practic':11 'remind':1 'societi':17 'still':20 'theori':6 'true':26 'understand':13 'valu':8,29"
          +ranking: 0
          +commentCount: 0
          +upVotes: 0
          +downVotes: 0
          +visibility: "visible             "
          +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5480766"
          +editedAt: null
          +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701964861 {#1550
            date: 2023-12-07 17:01:01.0 +01:00
          }
          +"title": 206964
        }
        +body: """
          You’re right. It’s *one* theory. There is however ongoing debate on which theory is “correct”.\n
          \n
          This vid explains it quite well and with Simpsons clips so the hour of video is bearable:\n
          \n
          [www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw)
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701971365 {#1621
          date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1596 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1702 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1683 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1680 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1686 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1692 …}
        -id: 207387
        -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':37 'bearabl':34 'clip':27 'correct':17 'debat':12 'explain':20 'hour':30 'howev':10 'one':6 'ongo':11 'quit':22 're':2 'right':3 'simpson':26 'theori':7,15 'vid':19 'video':32 'well':23 'www.youtube.com':36 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':35"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5483715"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701971365 {#1620
          date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207387
      }
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1721
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1726 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Umm… Thanks for that unnecessarily aggressive seeming and a bit incompehensible addendum, I guess?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 4
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701975001 {#1723
          date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1728 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1730 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1734 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1727 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1733 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1724 …}
        -id: 207642
        -bodyTs: "'addendum':12 'aggress':6 'bit':10 'guess':14 'incompehens':11 'seem':7 'thank':2 'umm':1 'unnecessarili':5"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485206"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975001 {#1722
          date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207642
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1616
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1611 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          I was talking about the theory, not value. Sorry if that didn’t come across.\n
          \n
          Now that I think about it: isn’t value culturally determined in many things? Why are apple products more expensive than other computers with the same specs? Why is a ticket to a Billie Eilish concert more valuable than one to my neighbor’s indie rock band?
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701974894 {#1705
          date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1598 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1629 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1626 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1618 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1597 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1731 …}
        -id: 207637
        -bodyTs: "'across':15 'appl':32 'band':62 'billi':49 'come':14 'comput':38 'concert':51 'cultur':25 'determin':26 'didn':12 'eilish':50 'expens':35 'indi':60 'isn':22 'mani':28 'neighbor':58 'one':55 'product':33 'rock':61 'sorri':9 'spec':42 'talk':3 'theori':6 'thing':29 'think':19 'ticket':46 'valu':8,24 'valuabl':53"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485163"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701974894 {#1711
          date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207637
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1718
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1720 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          Sorry, I interpreted it as aggressive. Figuring out tone in text form is hard and all that. Sorry that I wrongly accused you.\n
          \n
          Things I didn’t get:\n
          \n
          > A reminder that the labour theory of value is not a marxist concept.\n
          \n
          Marx hasn’t been explicity brought up yet (at least not in my comment). Only implicitly in the original post. Again: thought you were attacking me and was like “umm… So what?”\n
          \n
          > When people wave their hands around and say “labor theory of value isn’t objectively true!!”, they’re shadowboxing a ghost.\n
          \n
          I thought you meant me, since that was what I was basically saying. 😅\n
          \n
          > Value != price\n
          \n
          Now, that one wasn’t even implicitly mentioned.\n
          \n
          I hope you don’t hold my misunderstanding against me.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 3
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701975943 {#1715
          date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1716 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1739 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1740 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2465 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2463 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2411 …}
        -id: 207711
        -bodyTs: "'accus':22 'aggress':6 'around':79 'attack':66 'basic':106 'brought':47 'comment':55 'concept':41 'didn':26 'even':115 'explic':46 'figur':7 'form':12 'get':28 'ghost':94 'hand':78 'hard':14 'hasn':43 'hold':123 'hope':119 'implicit':57,116 'interpret':3 'isn':86 'labor':82 'labour':33 'least':51 'like':70 'marx':42 'marxist':40 'meant':98 'mention':117 'misunderstand':125 'object':88 'one':112 'origin':60 'peopl':75 'post':61 'price':109 're':91 'remind':30 'say':81,107 'shadowbox':92 'sinc':100 'sorri':1,18 'text':11 'theori':34,83 'thing':24 'thought':63,96 'tone':9 'true':89 'umm':71 'valu':36,85,108 'wasn':113 'wave':76 'wrong':21 'yet':49"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485494"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975943 {#1714
          date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207711
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2458
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2461 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Where?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701976885 {#2422
          date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2456 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2453 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2457 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2455 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2468 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2469 …}
        -id: 207782
        -bodyTs: ""
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485802"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701976885 {#2462
          date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207782
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2370 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Don’t the two correlate?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701977809 {#2471
          date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2377 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2359 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2364 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2380 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2382 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2384 …}
        -id: 207842
        -bodyTs: "'correl':5 'two':4"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486088"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977809 {#2371
          date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207842
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          > Well now i’m confused. If ‘labor theory of value isn’t objectively true’ isn’t making an argument about the price of a commodity not being equal to the labor it embodies, I am not sure what you’re trying to say by it.\n
          \n
          A theory o value doesn’t necessarily say anything about price. As you said: “value != price”.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701977944 {#2379
          date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1909 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1926 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1874 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1908 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1883 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2389 …}
        -id: 207854
        -bodyTs: "'anyth':54 'argument':19 'commod':25 'confus':5 'doesn':50 'embodi':33 'equal':28 'isn':11,15 'labor':7,31 'm':4 'make':17 'necessarili':52 'o':48 'object':13 'price':22,56,61 're':40 'said':59 'say':43,53 'sure':37 'theori':8,47 'tri':41 'true':14 'valu':10,49,60 'well':1"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486136"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373971 {#2381
          date: 2023-12-24 00:26:11.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977944 {#2383
          date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207854
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2030 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          As far as I understand: Price tries to measure value. Therefore: A price needs a value, but value doesn’t need price. They correlate but are not the same.\n
          \n
          Were am I making the mistake? Genuine question.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980069 {#1403
          date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2032 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2024 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2018 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2011 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2021 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2029 …}
        -id: 207987
        -bodyTs: "'correl':24 'doesn':19 'far':2 'genuin':36 'make':33 'measur':9 'mistak':35 'need':14,21 'price':6,13,22 'question':37 'therefor':11 'tri':7 'understand':5 'valu':10,16,18"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487031"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980069 {#2019
          date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207987
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2393 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          There’s not even academical consensus what value actually *is*, AFAIK. Do preasts add value to anything with their labour? If not: Do social counsellors? What if a priest acts as a counsellor? Ask different economists with their theories of value and you’ll get several answers.\n
          \n
          Economic theories aren’t as rigid as theories from the natural sciences or mathematics. They are dependent on the culture in which they are perceived. A non-capitalist society would have different theories or value (or none at all) than we do.\n
          \n
          [This guy can explain it properly](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw), I’m not an economist and kinda regret making that comment.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 6
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701979923 {#2387
          date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@JayDee@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1384 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1383 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1405 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1382 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1404 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1361 …}
        -id: 207981
        -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':99 'academ':5 'act':30 'actual':9 'add':14 'afaik':11 'answer':47 'anyth':17 'aren':50 'ask':34 'capitalist':76 'comment':110 'consensus':6 'counsellor':25,33 'cultur':67 'depend':64 'differ':35,80 'econom':48 'economist':36,104 'even':4 'explain':94 'get':45 'guy':92 'kinda':106 'labour':20 'll':44 'm':101 'make':108 'mathemat':61 'natur':58 'non':75 'non-capitalist':74 'none':85 'perceiv':72 'preast':13 'priest':29 'proper':96 'regret':107 'rigid':53 'scienc':59 'sever':46 'social':24 'societi':77 'theori':39,49,55,81 'valu':8,15,41,83 'would':78 'www.youtube.com':98 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':97"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486914"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373897 {#2392
          date: 2023-12-24 00:24:57.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701979923 {#2394
          date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207981
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2062 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "I wouldn’t have been able to write it this consise, but that’s kind of one thing I wanted to point towards in my original comment."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980622 {#2082
          date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2081 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2098 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2080 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2089 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2095 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2091 …}
        -id: 208044
        -bodyTs: "'abl':6 'comment':27 'consis':11 'kind':15 'one':17 'origin':26 'point':22 'thing':18 'toward':23 'want':20 'wouldn':2 'write':8"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487230"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980622 {#2085
          date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208044
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027}
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2094
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2241 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          > Why the neutral language all of a sudden?\n
          \n
          I was trying to be understood a bit better.\n
          \n
          > Are you trying to say 'all economic theories and models are not objectively true"?\n
          \n
          Not explicitally, but yeah: models aren’t used for “objective truth”. They’re used to *model* (i.e. simplify) reality to make observations and guesses for the future.\n
          \n
          > Why would that be worth saying in response to the OP?\n
          \n
          I feel like a lot of leftists think that understanding economics starts and ends with “capitalists exploit the labouring class”, while not actually engaging with the subject matter. I guess most can’t even explain LTV properly before getting mad at capitalists.\n
          \n
          As I’ve written before: I agree with most conclusions of marxist analysis that I know and I probably don’t even know half of them. But I think that political analysis should use LTV as a tool to understand the world and not the end of socio-economical disgussion (because that would ignore important parts of today’s economy).\n
          \n
          > It really just seems like you disagree with the ‘your stolen labor value’ claim in the OP, and are attributing it to the ‘labor theory of value’\n
          \n
          I don’t. I wanted to remind people as to make political analysis not too easy by taking the mental shortcut of reducing current capitalism on the problems pointed out by Marx rendition of LTV.\n
          \n
          > (as opposed to dismissing it because you disagree with some portion of the theory you’ve neglected to mention)\n
          \n
          I don’t disagree. I also don’t disagree with the atomic model of Niels Bohr when it comes to calculating electron potential. When it comes to observing e.g. electron spin, that particular model will probably fall flat. That doesn’t mean I “disagree” with the model, though.\n
          \n
          > My hunch is that you don’t feel confident enough in your understanding to make any kind of firm claim and are just dancing around making vague gestures toward ‘labor’ and ‘value’ definitions as a way of avoiding it.\n
          \n
          I’m not too confident in my economic knowledge, true. But I *am* quite confident in how models should be used in soft sciences.\n
          \n
          Addendum: I’d like to kindly ask you to give me a little bit of benefit of the doubt. Otherwise, I’ll just disengage due to that accusatory tone I’m getting from you being a bit exhausting.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701985632 {#2090
          date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2140 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2133 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2131 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2138 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2345 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2330 …}
        -id: 208351
        -bodyTs: "'accusatori':392 'actual':92 'addendum':365 'agre':118 'also':259 'analysi':124,143,212 'aren':37 'around':326 'ask':371 'atom':265 'attribut':192 'avoid':339 'benefit':380 'better':17 'bit':16,378,401 'bohr':269 'calcul':274 'capit':224 'capitalist':85,111 'claim':186,321 'class':89 'come':272,279 'conclus':121 'confid':310,345,355 'current':223 'd':367 'danc':325 'definit':334 'disagre':179,242,257,262,297 'disengag':388 'disguss':162 'dismiss':238 'doesn':293 'doubt':383 'due':389 'e.g':282 'easi':215 'econom':24,80,161,348 'economi':172 'electron':275,283 'end':83,157 'engag':93 'enough':311 'even':103,133 'exhaust':402 'explain':104 'explicit':33 'exploit':86 'fall':290 'feel':71,309 'firm':320 'flat':291 'futur':58 'gestur':329 'get':108,396 'give':374 'guess':55,99 'half':135 'hunch':303 'i.e':48 'ignor':166 'import':167 'kind':318,370 'know':127,134 'knowledg':349 'labor':184,196,331 'labour':88 'languag':4 'leftist':76 'like':72,177,368 'littl':377 'll':386 'lot':74 'ltv':105,146,234 'm':342,395 'mad':109 'make':52,210,316,327 'marx':231 'marxist':123 'matter':97 'mean':295 'mental':219 'mention':253 'model':27,36,47,266,287,300,358 'neglect':251 'neutral':3 'niel':268 'object':30,41 'observ':53,281 'op':69,189 'oppos':236 'otherwis':384 'part':168 'particular':286 'peopl':207 'point':228 'polit':142,211 'portion':245 'potenti':276 'probabl':130,289 'problem':227 'proper':106 'quit':354 're':44 'realiti':50 'realli':174 'reduc':222 'remind':206 'rendit':232 'respons':66 'say':22,64 'scienc':364 'seem':176 'shortcut':220 'simplifi':49 'socio':160 'socio-econom':159 'soft':363 'spin':284 'start':81 'stolen':183 'subject':96 'sudden':8 'take':217 'theori':25,197,248 'think':77,140 'though':301 'today':170 'tone':393 'tool':149 'toward':330 'tri':11,20 'true':31,350 'truth':42 'understand':79,151,314 'understood':14 'use':39,45,145,361 'vagu':328 'valu':185,199,333 've':114,250 'want':204 'way':337 'world':153 'worth':63 'would':60,165 'written':115 'yeah':35"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5489133"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703384328 {#2093
          date: 2023-12-24 03:18:48.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701985632 {#2092
          date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208351
      }
    ]
    -id: 20852
    -titleTs: "'enemi':3 'know':1"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1702038246
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemmy.ml/post/8990722"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701951846 {#2506
      date: 2023-12-07 13:24:06.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2035 …}
  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
  +body: """
    It’s an economic theory and therefore more to be understood as a model on how economics work.\n
    \n
    The natural sciences have a hard core. The theory of gravity depends on how matter interacts in an objective, physical framework. Economic theories basically describe human interaction which are based on psychology and sociology. Therefore they depend on the societal context they are made in.\n
    \n
    If you understand them as models that are tools on how to understand the world, they become more useful in political analysis (I know we are in a meme community here, but everything is politics and so on and so on…).\n
    \n
    I do subscribe to many conclusions the labour theory of value and especially Marx came to. But I want y’all to *remember* that the theory is a mere tool for understanding and not a sacred, holy theory.
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 0
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1701980460 {#2020
    date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
    "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
    "@archomrade@midwest.social"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2031 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2037 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2075 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2079 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2078 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2097 …}
  -id: 208027
  -bodyTs: "'analysi':85 'base':48 'basic':42 'becom':80 'came':119 'communiti':93 'conclus':110 'context':59 'core':25 'depend':30,55 'describ':43 'econom':4,17,40 'especi':117 'everyth':96 'framework':39 'graviti':29 'hard':24 'holi':141 'human':44 'interact':34,45 'know':87 'labour':112 'made':62 'mani':109 'marx':118 'matter':33 'meme':92 'mere':133 'model':14,69 'natur':20 'object':37 'physic':38 'polit':84,98 'psycholog':50 'rememb':127 'sacr':140 'scienc':21 'societ':58 'sociolog':52 'subscrib':107 'theori':5,27,41,113,130,142 'therefor':7,53 'tool':72,134 'understand':66,76,136 'understood':11 'use':82 'valu':115 'want':123 'work':18 'world':78 'y':124"
  +ranking: 0
  +commentCount: 0
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487165"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980460 {#2013
    date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 208027
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
52 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2003 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2559 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2581 …}
    +slug: "Know-your-enemy"
    +title: "Know your enemy"
    +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/4e8abd58-e357-4836-88ce-d57b36597f6b.jpeg"
    +body: null
    +type: "image"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: true
    +commentCount: 76
    +favouriteCount: 676
    +score: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +sticky: false
    +lastActive: DateTime @1702111873 {#2346
      date: 2023-12-09 09:51:13.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2580 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2578 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2575 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2609 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2605 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2622 …}
    +children: [
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1604 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
          +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
          +image: null
          +parent: null
          +root: null
          +body: """
            Reminder that while the labour theory of value can be practical to understand certain aspects of society, it is still culturally biased and not “objectively” true.\n
            \n
            What creates value can only be answered in a cultural framework.
            """
          +lang: "en"
          +isAdult: false
          +favouriteCount: 12
          +score: 0
          +lastActive: DateTime @1703499828 {#1580
            date: 2023-12-25 11:23:48.0 +01:00
          }
          +ip: null
          +tags: null
          +mentions: [
            "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          ]
          +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1561 …}
          +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1564 …}
          +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1563 …}
          +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1565 …}
          +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1558 …}
          +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1557 …}
          -id: 206964
          -bodyTs: "'answer':33 'aspect':15 'bias':22 'certain':14 'creat':28 'cultur':21,36 'framework':37 'labour':5 'object':25 'practic':11 'remind':1 'societi':17 'still':20 'theori':6 'true':26 'understand':13 'valu':8,29"
          +ranking: 0
          +commentCount: 0
          +upVotes: 0
          +downVotes: 0
          +visibility: "visible             "
          +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5480766"
          +editedAt: null
          +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701964861 {#1550
            date: 2023-12-07 17:01:01.0 +01:00
          }
          +"title": 206964
        }
        +body: """
          You’re right. It’s *one* theory. There is however ongoing debate on which theory is “correct”.\n
          \n
          This vid explains it quite well and with Simpsons clips so the hour of video is bearable:\n
          \n
          [www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw)
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701971365 {#1621
          date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1596 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1702 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1683 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1680 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1686 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1692 …}
        -id: 207387
        -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':37 'bearabl':34 'clip':27 'correct':17 'debat':12 'explain':20 'hour':30 'howev':10 'one':6 'ongo':11 'quit':22 're':2 'right':3 'simpson':26 'theori':7,15 'vid':19 'video':32 'well':23 'www.youtube.com':36 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':35"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5483715"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701971365 {#1620
          date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207387
      }
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1721
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1726 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Umm… Thanks for that unnecessarily aggressive seeming and a bit incompehensible addendum, I guess?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 4
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701975001 {#1723
          date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1728 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1730 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1734 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1727 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1733 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1724 …}
        -id: 207642
        -bodyTs: "'addendum':12 'aggress':6 'bit':10 'guess':14 'incompehens':11 'seem':7 'thank':2 'umm':1 'unnecessarili':5"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485206"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975001 {#1722
          date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207642
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1616
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1611 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          I was talking about the theory, not value. Sorry if that didn’t come across.\n
          \n
          Now that I think about it: isn’t value culturally determined in many things? Why are apple products more expensive than other computers with the same specs? Why is a ticket to a Billie Eilish concert more valuable than one to my neighbor’s indie rock band?
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701974894 {#1705
          date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1598 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1629 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1626 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1618 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1597 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1731 …}
        -id: 207637
        -bodyTs: "'across':15 'appl':32 'band':62 'billi':49 'come':14 'comput':38 'concert':51 'cultur':25 'determin':26 'didn':12 'eilish':50 'expens':35 'indi':60 'isn':22 'mani':28 'neighbor':58 'one':55 'product':33 'rock':61 'sorri':9 'spec':42 'talk':3 'theori':6 'thing':29 'think':19 'ticket':46 'valu':8,24 'valuabl':53"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485163"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701974894 {#1711
          date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207637
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1718
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1720 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          Sorry, I interpreted it as aggressive. Figuring out tone in text form is hard and all that. Sorry that I wrongly accused you.\n
          \n
          Things I didn’t get:\n
          \n
          > A reminder that the labour theory of value is not a marxist concept.\n
          \n
          Marx hasn’t been explicity brought up yet (at least not in my comment). Only implicitly in the original post. Again: thought you were attacking me and was like “umm… So what?”\n
          \n
          > When people wave their hands around and say “labor theory of value isn’t objectively true!!”, they’re shadowboxing a ghost.\n
          \n
          I thought you meant me, since that was what I was basically saying. 😅\n
          \n
          > Value != price\n
          \n
          Now, that one wasn’t even implicitly mentioned.\n
          \n
          I hope you don’t hold my misunderstanding against me.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 3
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701975943 {#1715
          date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1716 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1739 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1740 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2465 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2463 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2411 …}
        -id: 207711
        -bodyTs: "'accus':22 'aggress':6 'around':79 'attack':66 'basic':106 'brought':47 'comment':55 'concept':41 'didn':26 'even':115 'explic':46 'figur':7 'form':12 'get':28 'ghost':94 'hand':78 'hard':14 'hasn':43 'hold':123 'hope':119 'implicit':57,116 'interpret':3 'isn':86 'labor':82 'labour':33 'least':51 'like':70 'marx':42 'marxist':40 'meant':98 'mention':117 'misunderstand':125 'object':88 'one':112 'origin':60 'peopl':75 'post':61 'price':109 're':91 'remind':30 'say':81,107 'shadowbox':92 'sinc':100 'sorri':1,18 'text':11 'theori':34,83 'thing':24 'thought':63,96 'tone':9 'true':89 'umm':71 'valu':36,85,108 'wasn':113 'wave':76 'wrong':21 'yet':49"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485494"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975943 {#1714
          date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207711
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2458
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2461 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Where?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701976885 {#2422
          date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2456 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2453 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2457 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2455 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2468 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2469 …}
        -id: 207782
        -bodyTs: ""
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485802"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701976885 {#2462
          date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207782
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2370 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Don’t the two correlate?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701977809 {#2471
          date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2377 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2359 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2364 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2380 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2382 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2384 …}
        -id: 207842
        -bodyTs: "'correl':5 'two':4"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486088"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977809 {#2371
          date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207842
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          > Well now i’m confused. If ‘labor theory of value isn’t objectively true’ isn’t making an argument about the price of a commodity not being equal to the labor it embodies, I am not sure what you’re trying to say by it.\n
          \n
          A theory o value doesn’t necessarily say anything about price. As you said: “value != price”.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701977944 {#2379
          date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1909 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1926 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1874 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1908 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1883 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2389 …}
        -id: 207854
        -bodyTs: "'anyth':54 'argument':19 'commod':25 'confus':5 'doesn':50 'embodi':33 'equal':28 'isn':11,15 'labor':7,31 'm':4 'make':17 'necessarili':52 'o':48 'object':13 'price':22,56,61 're':40 'said':59 'say':43,53 'sure':37 'theori':8,47 'tri':41 'true':14 'valu':10,49,60 'well':1"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486136"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373971 {#2381
          date: 2023-12-24 00:26:11.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977944 {#2383
          date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207854
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2030 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          As far as I understand: Price tries to measure value. Therefore: A price needs a value, but value doesn’t need price. They correlate but are not the same.\n
          \n
          Were am I making the mistake? Genuine question.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980069 {#1403
          date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2032 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2024 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2018 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2011 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2021 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2029 …}
        -id: 207987
        -bodyTs: "'correl':24 'doesn':19 'far':2 'genuin':36 'make':33 'measur':9 'mistak':35 'need':14,21 'price':6,13,22 'question':37 'therefor':11 'tri':7 'understand':5 'valu':10,16,18"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487031"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980069 {#2019
          date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207987
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2393 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          There’s not even academical consensus what value actually *is*, AFAIK. Do preasts add value to anything with their labour? If not: Do social counsellors? What if a priest acts as a counsellor? Ask different economists with their theories of value and you’ll get several answers.\n
          \n
          Economic theories aren’t as rigid as theories from the natural sciences or mathematics. They are dependent on the culture in which they are perceived. A non-capitalist society would have different theories or value (or none at all) than we do.\n
          \n
          [This guy can explain it properly](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw), I’m not an economist and kinda regret making that comment.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 6
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701979923 {#2387
          date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@JayDee@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1384 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1383 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1405 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1382 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1404 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1361 …}
        -id: 207981
        -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':99 'academ':5 'act':30 'actual':9 'add':14 'afaik':11 'answer':47 'anyth':17 'aren':50 'ask':34 'capitalist':76 'comment':110 'consensus':6 'counsellor':25,33 'cultur':67 'depend':64 'differ':35,80 'econom':48 'economist':36,104 'even':4 'explain':94 'get':45 'guy':92 'kinda':106 'labour':20 'll':44 'm':101 'make':108 'mathemat':61 'natur':58 'non':75 'non-capitalist':74 'none':85 'perceiv':72 'preast':13 'priest':29 'proper':96 'regret':107 'rigid':53 'scienc':59 'sever':46 'social':24 'societi':77 'theori':39,49,55,81 'valu':8,15,41,83 'would':78 'www.youtube.com':98 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':97"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486914"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373897 {#2392
          date: 2023-12-24 00:24:57.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701979923 {#2394
          date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207981
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2062 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "I wouldn’t have been able to write it this consise, but that’s kind of one thing I wanted to point towards in my original comment."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980622 {#2082
          date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2081 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2098 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2080 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2089 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2095 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2091 …}
        -id: 208044
        -bodyTs: "'abl':6 'comment':27 'consis':11 'kind':15 'one':17 'origin':26 'point':22 'thing':18 'toward':23 'want':20 'wouldn':2 'write':8"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487230"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980622 {#2085
          date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208044
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027}
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2094
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2241 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          > Why the neutral language all of a sudden?\n
          \n
          I was trying to be understood a bit better.\n
          \n
          > Are you trying to say 'all economic theories and models are not objectively true"?\n
          \n
          Not explicitally, but yeah: models aren’t used for “objective truth”. They’re used to *model* (i.e. simplify) reality to make observations and guesses for the future.\n
          \n
          > Why would that be worth saying in response to the OP?\n
          \n
          I feel like a lot of leftists think that understanding economics starts and ends with “capitalists exploit the labouring class”, while not actually engaging with the subject matter. I guess most can’t even explain LTV properly before getting mad at capitalists.\n
          \n
          As I’ve written before: I agree with most conclusions of marxist analysis that I know and I probably don’t even know half of them. But I think that political analysis should use LTV as a tool to understand the world and not the end of socio-economical disgussion (because that would ignore important parts of today’s economy).\n
          \n
          > It really just seems like you disagree with the ‘your stolen labor value’ claim in the OP, and are attributing it to the ‘labor theory of value’\n
          \n
          I don’t. I wanted to remind people as to make political analysis not too easy by taking the mental shortcut of reducing current capitalism on the problems pointed out by Marx rendition of LTV.\n
          \n
          > (as opposed to dismissing it because you disagree with some portion of the theory you’ve neglected to mention)\n
          \n
          I don’t disagree. I also don’t disagree with the atomic model of Niels Bohr when it comes to calculating electron potential. When it comes to observing e.g. electron spin, that particular model will probably fall flat. That doesn’t mean I “disagree” with the model, though.\n
          \n
          > My hunch is that you don’t feel confident enough in your understanding to make any kind of firm claim and are just dancing around making vague gestures toward ‘labor’ and ‘value’ definitions as a way of avoiding it.\n
          \n
          I’m not too confident in my economic knowledge, true. But I *am* quite confident in how models should be used in soft sciences.\n
          \n
          Addendum: I’d like to kindly ask you to give me a little bit of benefit of the doubt. Otherwise, I’ll just disengage due to that accusatory tone I’m getting from you being a bit exhausting.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701985632 {#2090
          date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2140 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2133 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2131 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2138 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2345 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2330 …}
        -id: 208351
        -bodyTs: "'accusatori':392 'actual':92 'addendum':365 'agre':118 'also':259 'analysi':124,143,212 'aren':37 'around':326 'ask':371 'atom':265 'attribut':192 'avoid':339 'benefit':380 'better':17 'bit':16,378,401 'bohr':269 'calcul':274 'capit':224 'capitalist':85,111 'claim':186,321 'class':89 'come':272,279 'conclus':121 'confid':310,345,355 'current':223 'd':367 'danc':325 'definit':334 'disagre':179,242,257,262,297 'disengag':388 'disguss':162 'dismiss':238 'doesn':293 'doubt':383 'due':389 'e.g':282 'easi':215 'econom':24,80,161,348 'economi':172 'electron':275,283 'end':83,157 'engag':93 'enough':311 'even':103,133 'exhaust':402 'explain':104 'explicit':33 'exploit':86 'fall':290 'feel':71,309 'firm':320 'flat':291 'futur':58 'gestur':329 'get':108,396 'give':374 'guess':55,99 'half':135 'hunch':303 'i.e':48 'ignor':166 'import':167 'kind':318,370 'know':127,134 'knowledg':349 'labor':184,196,331 'labour':88 'languag':4 'leftist':76 'like':72,177,368 'littl':377 'll':386 'lot':74 'ltv':105,146,234 'm':342,395 'mad':109 'make':52,210,316,327 'marx':231 'marxist':123 'matter':97 'mean':295 'mental':219 'mention':253 'model':27,36,47,266,287,300,358 'neglect':251 'neutral':3 'niel':268 'object':30,41 'observ':53,281 'op':69,189 'oppos':236 'otherwis':384 'part':168 'particular':286 'peopl':207 'point':228 'polit':142,211 'portion':245 'potenti':276 'probabl':130,289 'problem':227 'proper':106 'quit':354 're':44 'realiti':50 'realli':174 'reduc':222 'remind':206 'rendit':232 'respons':66 'say':22,64 'scienc':364 'seem':176 'shortcut':220 'simplifi':49 'socio':160 'socio-econom':159 'soft':363 'spin':284 'start':81 'stolen':183 'subject':96 'sudden':8 'take':217 'theori':25,197,248 'think':77,140 'though':301 'today':170 'tone':393 'tool':149 'toward':330 'tri':11,20 'true':31,350 'truth':42 'understand':79,151,314 'understood':14 'use':39,45,145,361 'vagu':328 'valu':185,199,333 've':114,250 'want':204 'way':337 'world':153 'worth':63 'would':60,165 'written':115 'yeah':35"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5489133"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703384328 {#2093
          date: 2023-12-24 03:18:48.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701985632 {#2092
          date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208351
      }
    ]
    -id: 20852
    -titleTs: "'enemi':3 'know':1"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1702038246
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemmy.ml/post/8990722"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701951846 {#2506
      date: 2023-12-07 13:24:06.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2035 …}
  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
  +body: """
    It’s an economic theory and therefore more to be understood as a model on how economics work.\n
    \n
    The natural sciences have a hard core. The theory of gravity depends on how matter interacts in an objective, physical framework. Economic theories basically describe human interaction which are based on psychology and sociology. Therefore they depend on the societal context they are made in.\n
    \n
    If you understand them as models that are tools on how to understand the world, they become more useful in political analysis (I know we are in a meme community here, but everything is politics and so on and so on…).\n
    \n
    I do subscribe to many conclusions the labour theory of value and especially Marx came to. But I want y’all to *remember* that the theory is a mere tool for understanding and not a sacred, holy theory.
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 0
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1701980460 {#2020
    date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
    "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
    "@archomrade@midwest.social"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2031 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2037 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2075 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2079 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2078 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2097 …}
  -id: 208027
  -bodyTs: "'analysi':85 'base':48 'basic':42 'becom':80 'came':119 'communiti':93 'conclus':110 'context':59 'core':25 'depend':30,55 'describ':43 'econom':4,17,40 'especi':117 'everyth':96 'framework':39 'graviti':29 'hard':24 'holi':141 'human':44 'interact':34,45 'know':87 'labour':112 'made':62 'mani':109 'marx':118 'matter':33 'meme':92 'mere':133 'model':14,69 'natur':20 'object':37 'physic':38 'polit':84,98 'psycholog':50 'rememb':127 'sacr':140 'scienc':21 'societ':58 'sociolog':52 'subscrib':107 'theori':5,27,41,113,130,142 'therefor':7,53 'tool':72,134 'understand':66,76,136 'understood':11 'use':82 'valu':115 'want':123 'work':18 'world':78 'y':124"
  +ranking: 0
  +commentCount: 0
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487165"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980460 {#2013
    date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 208027
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
53 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
54 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2094
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2003 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2559 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2581 …}
    +slug: "Know-your-enemy"
    +title: "Know your enemy"
    +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/4e8abd58-e357-4836-88ce-d57b36597f6b.jpeg"
    +body: null
    +type: "image"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: true
    +commentCount: 76
    +favouriteCount: 676
    +score: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +sticky: false
    +lastActive: DateTime @1702111873 {#2346
      date: 2023-12-09 09:51:13.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2580 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2578 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2575 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2609 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2605 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2622 …}
    +children: [
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1604 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
          +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
          +image: null
          +parent: null
          +root: null
          +body: """
            Reminder that while the labour theory of value can be practical to understand certain aspects of society, it is still culturally biased and not “objectively” true.\n
            \n
            What creates value can only be answered in a cultural framework.
            """
          +lang: "en"
          +isAdult: false
          +favouriteCount: 12
          +score: 0
          +lastActive: DateTime @1703499828 {#1580
            date: 2023-12-25 11:23:48.0 +01:00
          }
          +ip: null
          +tags: null
          +mentions: [
            "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          ]
          +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1561 …}
          +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1564 …}
          +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1563 …}
          +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1565 …}
          +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1558 …}
          +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1557 …}
          -id: 206964
          -bodyTs: "'answer':33 'aspect':15 'bias':22 'certain':14 'creat':28 'cultur':21,36 'framework':37 'labour':5 'object':25 'practic':11 'remind':1 'societi':17 'still':20 'theori':6 'true':26 'understand':13 'valu':8,29"
          +ranking: 0
          +commentCount: 0
          +upVotes: 0
          +downVotes: 0
          +visibility: "visible             "
          +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5480766"
          +editedAt: null
          +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701964861 {#1550
            date: 2023-12-07 17:01:01.0 +01:00
          }
          +"title": 206964
        }
        +body: """
          You’re right. It’s *one* theory. There is however ongoing debate on which theory is “correct”.\n
          \n
          This vid explains it quite well and with Simpsons clips so the hour of video is bearable:\n
          \n
          [www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw)
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701971365 {#1621
          date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1596 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1702 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1683 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1680 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1686 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1692 …}
        -id: 207387
        -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':37 'bearabl':34 'clip':27 'correct':17 'debat':12 'explain':20 'hour':30 'howev':10 'one':6 'ongo':11 'quit':22 're':2 'right':3 'simpson':26 'theori':7,15 'vid':19 'video':32 'well':23 'www.youtube.com':36 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':35"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5483715"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701971365 {#1620
          date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207387
      }
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1721
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1726 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Umm… Thanks for that unnecessarily aggressive seeming and a bit incompehensible addendum, I guess?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 4
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701975001 {#1723
          date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1728 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1730 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1734 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1727 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1733 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1724 …}
        -id: 207642
        -bodyTs: "'addendum':12 'aggress':6 'bit':10 'guess':14 'incompehens':11 'seem':7 'thank':2 'umm':1 'unnecessarili':5"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485206"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975001 {#1722
          date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207642
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1616
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1611 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          I was talking about the theory, not value. Sorry if that didn’t come across.\n
          \n
          Now that I think about it: isn’t value culturally determined in many things? Why are apple products more expensive than other computers with the same specs? Why is a ticket to a Billie Eilish concert more valuable than one to my neighbor’s indie rock band?
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701974894 {#1705
          date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1598 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1629 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1626 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1618 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1597 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1731 …}
        -id: 207637
        -bodyTs: "'across':15 'appl':32 'band':62 'billi':49 'come':14 'comput':38 'concert':51 'cultur':25 'determin':26 'didn':12 'eilish':50 'expens':35 'indi':60 'isn':22 'mani':28 'neighbor':58 'one':55 'product':33 'rock':61 'sorri':9 'spec':42 'talk':3 'theori':6 'thing':29 'think':19 'ticket':46 'valu':8,24 'valuabl':53"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485163"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701974894 {#1711
          date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207637
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1718
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1720 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          Sorry, I interpreted it as aggressive. Figuring out tone in text form is hard and all that. Sorry that I wrongly accused you.\n
          \n
          Things I didn’t get:\n
          \n
          > A reminder that the labour theory of value is not a marxist concept.\n
          \n
          Marx hasn’t been explicity brought up yet (at least not in my comment). Only implicitly in the original post. Again: thought you were attacking me and was like “umm… So what?”\n
          \n
          > When people wave their hands around and say “labor theory of value isn’t objectively true!!”, they’re shadowboxing a ghost.\n
          \n
          I thought you meant me, since that was what I was basically saying. 😅\n
          \n
          > Value != price\n
          \n
          Now, that one wasn’t even implicitly mentioned.\n
          \n
          I hope you don’t hold my misunderstanding against me.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 3
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701975943 {#1715
          date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1716 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1739 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1740 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2465 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2463 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2411 …}
        -id: 207711
        -bodyTs: "'accus':22 'aggress':6 'around':79 'attack':66 'basic':106 'brought':47 'comment':55 'concept':41 'didn':26 'even':115 'explic':46 'figur':7 'form':12 'get':28 'ghost':94 'hand':78 'hard':14 'hasn':43 'hold':123 'hope':119 'implicit':57,116 'interpret':3 'isn':86 'labor':82 'labour':33 'least':51 'like':70 'marx':42 'marxist':40 'meant':98 'mention':117 'misunderstand':125 'object':88 'one':112 'origin':60 'peopl':75 'post':61 'price':109 're':91 'remind':30 'say':81,107 'shadowbox':92 'sinc':100 'sorri':1,18 'text':11 'theori':34,83 'thing':24 'thought':63,96 'tone':9 'true':89 'umm':71 'valu':36,85,108 'wasn':113 'wave':76 'wrong':21 'yet':49"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485494"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975943 {#1714
          date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207711
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2458
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2461 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Where?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701976885 {#2422
          date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2456 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2453 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2457 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2455 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2468 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2469 …}
        -id: 207782
        -bodyTs: ""
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485802"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701976885 {#2462
          date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207782
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2370 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Don’t the two correlate?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701977809 {#2471
          date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2377 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2359 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2364 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2380 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2382 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2384 …}
        -id: 207842
        -bodyTs: "'correl':5 'two':4"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486088"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977809 {#2371
          date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207842
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          > Well now i’m confused. If ‘labor theory of value isn’t objectively true’ isn’t making an argument about the price of a commodity not being equal to the labor it embodies, I am not sure what you’re trying to say by it.\n
          \n
          A theory o value doesn’t necessarily say anything about price. As you said: “value != price”.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701977944 {#2379
          date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1909 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1926 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1874 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1908 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1883 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2389 …}
        -id: 207854
        -bodyTs: "'anyth':54 'argument':19 'commod':25 'confus':5 'doesn':50 'embodi':33 'equal':28 'isn':11,15 'labor':7,31 'm':4 'make':17 'necessarili':52 'o':48 'object':13 'price':22,56,61 're':40 'said':59 'say':43,53 'sure':37 'theori':8,47 'tri':41 'true':14 'valu':10,49,60 'well':1"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486136"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373971 {#2381
          date: 2023-12-24 00:26:11.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977944 {#2383
          date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207854
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2030 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          As far as I understand: Price tries to measure value. Therefore: A price needs a value, but value doesn’t need price. They correlate but are not the same.\n
          \n
          Were am I making the mistake? Genuine question.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980069 {#1403
          date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2032 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2024 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2018 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2011 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2021 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2029 …}
        -id: 207987
        -bodyTs: "'correl':24 'doesn':19 'far':2 'genuin':36 'make':33 'measur':9 'mistak':35 'need':14,21 'price':6,13,22 'question':37 'therefor':11 'tri':7 'understand':5 'valu':10,16,18"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487031"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980069 {#2019
          date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207987
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2393 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          There’s not even academical consensus what value actually *is*, AFAIK. Do preasts add value to anything with their labour? If not: Do social counsellors? What if a priest acts as a counsellor? Ask different economists with their theories of value and you’ll get several answers.\n
          \n
          Economic theories aren’t as rigid as theories from the natural sciences or mathematics. They are dependent on the culture in which they are perceived. A non-capitalist society would have different theories or value (or none at all) than we do.\n
          \n
          [This guy can explain it properly](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw), I’m not an economist and kinda regret making that comment.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 6
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701979923 {#2387
          date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@JayDee@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1384 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1383 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1405 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1382 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1404 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1361 …}
        -id: 207981
        -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':99 'academ':5 'act':30 'actual':9 'add':14 'afaik':11 'answer':47 'anyth':17 'aren':50 'ask':34 'capitalist':76 'comment':110 'consensus':6 'counsellor':25,33 'cultur':67 'depend':64 'differ':35,80 'econom':48 'economist':36,104 'even':4 'explain':94 'get':45 'guy':92 'kinda':106 'labour':20 'll':44 'm':101 'make':108 'mathemat':61 'natur':58 'non':75 'non-capitalist':74 'none':85 'perceiv':72 'preast':13 'priest':29 'proper':96 'regret':107 'rigid':53 'scienc':59 'sever':46 'social':24 'societi':77 'theori':39,49,55,81 'valu':8,15,41,83 'would':78 'www.youtube.com':98 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':97"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486914"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373897 {#2392
          date: 2023-12-24 00:24:57.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701979923 {#2394
          date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207981
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2062 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "I wouldn’t have been able to write it this consise, but that’s kind of one thing I wanted to point towards in my original comment."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980622 {#2082
          date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2081 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2098 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2080 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2089 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2095 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2091 …}
        -id: 208044
        -bodyTs: "'abl':6 'comment':27 'consis':11 'kind':15 'one':17 'origin':26 'point':22 'thing':18 'toward':23 'want':20 'wouldn':2 'write':8"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487230"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980622 {#2085
          date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208044
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2035 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          It’s an economic theory and therefore more to be understood as a model on how economics work.\n
          \n
          The natural sciences have a hard core. The theory of gravity depends on how matter interacts in an objective, physical framework. Economic theories basically describe human interaction which are based on psychology and sociology. Therefore they depend on the societal context they are made in.\n
          \n
          If you understand them as models that are tools on how to understand the world, they become more useful in political analysis (I know we are in a meme community here, but everything is politics and so on and so on…).\n
          \n
          I do subscribe to many conclusions the labour theory of value and especially Marx came to. But I want y’all to *remember* that the theory is a mere tool for understanding and not a sacred, holy theory.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980460 {#2020
          date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2031 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2037 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2075 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2079 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2078 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2097 …}
        -id: 208027
        -bodyTs: "'analysi':85 'base':48 'basic':42 'becom':80 'came':119 'communiti':93 'conclus':110 'context':59 'core':25 'depend':30,55 'describ':43 'econom':4,17,40 'especi':117 'everyth':96 'framework':39 'graviti':29 'hard':24 'holi':141 'human':44 'interact':34,45 'know':87 'labour':112 'made':62 'mani':109 'marx':118 'matter':33 'meme':92 'mere':133 'model':14,69 'natur':20 'object':37 'physic':38 'polit':84,98 'psycholog':50 'rememb':127 'sacr':140 'scienc':21 'societ':58 'sociolog':52 'subscrib':107 'theori':5,27,41,113,130,142 'therefor':7,53 'tool':72,134 'understand':66,76,136 'understood':11 'use':82 'valu':115 'want':123 'work':18 'world':78 'y':124"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487165"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980460 {#2013
          date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208027
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2094}
    ]
    -id: 20852
    -titleTs: "'enemi':3 'know':1"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1702038246
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemmy.ml/post/8990722"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701951846 {#2506
      date: 2023-12-07 13:24:06.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2241 …}
  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
  +body: """
    > Why the neutral language all of a sudden?\n
    \n
    I was trying to be understood a bit better.\n
    \n
    > Are you trying to say 'all economic theories and models are not objectively true"?\n
    \n
    Not explicitally, but yeah: models aren’t used for “objective truth”. They’re used to *model* (i.e. simplify) reality to make observations and guesses for the future.\n
    \n
    > Why would that be worth saying in response to the OP?\n
    \n
    I feel like a lot of leftists think that understanding economics starts and ends with “capitalists exploit the labouring class”, while not actually engaging with the subject matter. I guess most can’t even explain LTV properly before getting mad at capitalists.\n
    \n
    As I’ve written before: I agree with most conclusions of marxist analysis that I know and I probably don’t even know half of them. But I think that political analysis should use LTV as a tool to understand the world and not the end of socio-economical disgussion (because that would ignore important parts of today’s economy).\n
    \n
    > It really just seems like you disagree with the ‘your stolen labor value’ claim in the OP, and are attributing it to the ‘labor theory of value’\n
    \n
    I don’t. I wanted to remind people as to make political analysis not too easy by taking the mental shortcut of reducing current capitalism on the problems pointed out by Marx rendition of LTV.\n
    \n
    > (as opposed to dismissing it because you disagree with some portion of the theory you’ve neglected to mention)\n
    \n
    I don’t disagree. I also don’t disagree with the atomic model of Niels Bohr when it comes to calculating electron potential. When it comes to observing e.g. electron spin, that particular model will probably fall flat. That doesn’t mean I “disagree” with the model, though.\n
    \n
    > My hunch is that you don’t feel confident enough in your understanding to make any kind of firm claim and are just dancing around making vague gestures toward ‘labor’ and ‘value’ definitions as a way of avoiding it.\n
    \n
    I’m not too confident in my economic knowledge, true. But I *am* quite confident in how models should be used in soft sciences.\n
    \n
    Addendum: I’d like to kindly ask you to give me a little bit of benefit of the doubt. Otherwise, I’ll just disengage due to that accusatory tone I’m getting from you being a bit exhausting.
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 0
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1701985632 {#2090
    date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
    "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
    "@archomrade@midwest.social"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2140 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2133 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2131 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2138 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2345 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2330 …}
  -id: 208351
  -bodyTs: "'accusatori':392 'actual':92 'addendum':365 'agre':118 'also':259 'analysi':124,143,212 'aren':37 'around':326 'ask':371 'atom':265 'attribut':192 'avoid':339 'benefit':380 'better':17 'bit':16,378,401 'bohr':269 'calcul':274 'capit':224 'capitalist':85,111 'claim':186,321 'class':89 'come':272,279 'conclus':121 'confid':310,345,355 'current':223 'd':367 'danc':325 'definit':334 'disagre':179,242,257,262,297 'disengag':388 'disguss':162 'dismiss':238 'doesn':293 'doubt':383 'due':389 'e.g':282 'easi':215 'econom':24,80,161,348 'economi':172 'electron':275,283 'end':83,157 'engag':93 'enough':311 'even':103,133 'exhaust':402 'explain':104 'explicit':33 'exploit':86 'fall':290 'feel':71,309 'firm':320 'flat':291 'futur':58 'gestur':329 'get':108,396 'give':374 'guess':55,99 'half':135 'hunch':303 'i.e':48 'ignor':166 'import':167 'kind':318,370 'know':127,134 'knowledg':349 'labor':184,196,331 'labour':88 'languag':4 'leftist':76 'like':72,177,368 'littl':377 'll':386 'lot':74 'ltv':105,146,234 'm':342,395 'mad':109 'make':52,210,316,327 'marx':231 'marxist':123 'matter':97 'mean':295 'mental':219 'mention':253 'model':27,36,47,266,287,300,358 'neglect':251 'neutral':3 'niel':268 'object':30,41 'observ':53,281 'op':69,189 'oppos':236 'otherwis':384 'part':168 'particular':286 'peopl':207 'point':228 'polit':142,211 'portion':245 'potenti':276 'probabl':130,289 'problem':227 'proper':106 'quit':354 're':44 'realiti':50 'realli':174 'reduc':222 'remind':206 'rendit':232 'respons':66 'say':22,64 'scienc':364 'seem':176 'shortcut':220 'simplifi':49 'socio':160 'socio-econom':159 'soft':363 'spin':284 'start':81 'stolen':183 'subject':96 'sudden':8 'take':217 'theori':25,197,248 'think':77,140 'though':301 'today':170 'tone':393 'tool':149 'toward':330 'tri':11,20 'true':31,350 'truth':42 'understand':79,151,314 'understood':14 'use':39,45,145,361 'vagu':328 'valu':185,199,333 've':114,250 'want':204 'way':337 'world':153 'worth':63 'would':60,165 'written':115 'yeah':35"
  +ranking: 0
  +commentCount: 0
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5489133"
  +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703384328 {#2093
    date: 2023-12-24 03:18:48.0 +01:00
  }
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701985632 {#2092
    date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 208351
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
55 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2094
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2003 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2559 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2581 …}
    +slug: "Know-your-enemy"
    +title: "Know your enemy"
    +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/4e8abd58-e357-4836-88ce-d57b36597f6b.jpeg"
    +body: null
    +type: "image"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: true
    +commentCount: 76
    +favouriteCount: 676
    +score: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +sticky: false
    +lastActive: DateTime @1702111873 {#2346
      date: 2023-12-09 09:51:13.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2580 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2578 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2575 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2609 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2605 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2622 …}
    +children: [
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1604 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
          +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
          +image: null
          +parent: null
          +root: null
          +body: """
            Reminder that while the labour theory of value can be practical to understand certain aspects of society, it is still culturally biased and not “objectively” true.\n
            \n
            What creates value can only be answered in a cultural framework.
            """
          +lang: "en"
          +isAdult: false
          +favouriteCount: 12
          +score: 0
          +lastActive: DateTime @1703499828 {#1580
            date: 2023-12-25 11:23:48.0 +01:00
          }
          +ip: null
          +tags: null
          +mentions: [
            "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          ]
          +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1561 …}
          +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1564 …}
          +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1563 …}
          +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1565 …}
          +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1558 …}
          +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1557 …}
          -id: 206964
          -bodyTs: "'answer':33 'aspect':15 'bias':22 'certain':14 'creat':28 'cultur':21,36 'framework':37 'labour':5 'object':25 'practic':11 'remind':1 'societi':17 'still':20 'theori':6 'true':26 'understand':13 'valu':8,29"
          +ranking: 0
          +commentCount: 0
          +upVotes: 0
          +downVotes: 0
          +visibility: "visible             "
          +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5480766"
          +editedAt: null
          +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701964861 {#1550
            date: 2023-12-07 17:01:01.0 +01:00
          }
          +"title": 206964
        }
        +body: """
          You’re right. It’s *one* theory. There is however ongoing debate on which theory is “correct”.\n
          \n
          This vid explains it quite well and with Simpsons clips so the hour of video is bearable:\n
          \n
          [www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw)
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701971365 {#1621
          date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1596 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1702 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1683 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1680 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1686 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1692 …}
        -id: 207387
        -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':37 'bearabl':34 'clip':27 'correct':17 'debat':12 'explain':20 'hour':30 'howev':10 'one':6 'ongo':11 'quit':22 're':2 'right':3 'simpson':26 'theori':7,15 'vid':19 'video':32 'well':23 'www.youtube.com':36 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':35"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5483715"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701971365 {#1620
          date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207387
      }
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1721
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1726 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Umm… Thanks for that unnecessarily aggressive seeming and a bit incompehensible addendum, I guess?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 4
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701975001 {#1723
          date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1728 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1730 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1734 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1727 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1733 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1724 …}
        -id: 207642
        -bodyTs: "'addendum':12 'aggress':6 'bit':10 'guess':14 'incompehens':11 'seem':7 'thank':2 'umm':1 'unnecessarili':5"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485206"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975001 {#1722
          date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207642
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1616
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1611 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          I was talking about the theory, not value. Sorry if that didn’t come across.\n
          \n
          Now that I think about it: isn’t value culturally determined in many things? Why are apple products more expensive than other computers with the same specs? Why is a ticket to a Billie Eilish concert more valuable than one to my neighbor’s indie rock band?
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701974894 {#1705
          date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1598 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1629 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1626 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1618 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1597 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1731 …}
        -id: 207637
        -bodyTs: "'across':15 'appl':32 'band':62 'billi':49 'come':14 'comput':38 'concert':51 'cultur':25 'determin':26 'didn':12 'eilish':50 'expens':35 'indi':60 'isn':22 'mani':28 'neighbor':58 'one':55 'product':33 'rock':61 'sorri':9 'spec':42 'talk':3 'theori':6 'thing':29 'think':19 'ticket':46 'valu':8,24 'valuabl':53"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485163"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701974894 {#1711
          date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207637
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1718
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1720 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          Sorry, I interpreted it as aggressive. Figuring out tone in text form is hard and all that. Sorry that I wrongly accused you.\n
          \n
          Things I didn’t get:\n
          \n
          > A reminder that the labour theory of value is not a marxist concept.\n
          \n
          Marx hasn’t been explicity brought up yet (at least not in my comment). Only implicitly in the original post. Again: thought you were attacking me and was like “umm… So what?”\n
          \n
          > When people wave their hands around and say “labor theory of value isn’t objectively true!!”, they’re shadowboxing a ghost.\n
          \n
          I thought you meant me, since that was what I was basically saying. 😅\n
          \n
          > Value != price\n
          \n
          Now, that one wasn’t even implicitly mentioned.\n
          \n
          I hope you don’t hold my misunderstanding against me.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 3
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701975943 {#1715
          date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1716 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1739 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1740 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2465 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2463 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2411 …}
        -id: 207711
        -bodyTs: "'accus':22 'aggress':6 'around':79 'attack':66 'basic':106 'brought':47 'comment':55 'concept':41 'didn':26 'even':115 'explic':46 'figur':7 'form':12 'get':28 'ghost':94 'hand':78 'hard':14 'hasn':43 'hold':123 'hope':119 'implicit':57,116 'interpret':3 'isn':86 'labor':82 'labour':33 'least':51 'like':70 'marx':42 'marxist':40 'meant':98 'mention':117 'misunderstand':125 'object':88 'one':112 'origin':60 'peopl':75 'post':61 'price':109 're':91 'remind':30 'say':81,107 'shadowbox':92 'sinc':100 'sorri':1,18 'text':11 'theori':34,83 'thing':24 'thought':63,96 'tone':9 'true':89 'umm':71 'valu':36,85,108 'wasn':113 'wave':76 'wrong':21 'yet':49"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485494"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975943 {#1714
          date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207711
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2458
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2461 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Where?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701976885 {#2422
          date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2456 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2453 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2457 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2455 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2468 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2469 …}
        -id: 207782
        -bodyTs: ""
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485802"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701976885 {#2462
          date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207782
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2370 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Don’t the two correlate?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701977809 {#2471
          date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2377 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2359 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2364 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2380 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2382 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2384 …}
        -id: 207842
        -bodyTs: "'correl':5 'two':4"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486088"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977809 {#2371
          date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207842
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          > Well now i’m confused. If ‘labor theory of value isn’t objectively true’ isn’t making an argument about the price of a commodity not being equal to the labor it embodies, I am not sure what you’re trying to say by it.\n
          \n
          A theory o value doesn’t necessarily say anything about price. As you said: “value != price”.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701977944 {#2379
          date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1909 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1926 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1874 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1908 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1883 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2389 …}
        -id: 207854
        -bodyTs: "'anyth':54 'argument':19 'commod':25 'confus':5 'doesn':50 'embodi':33 'equal':28 'isn':11,15 'labor':7,31 'm':4 'make':17 'necessarili':52 'o':48 'object':13 'price':22,56,61 're':40 'said':59 'say':43,53 'sure':37 'theori':8,47 'tri':41 'true':14 'valu':10,49,60 'well':1"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486136"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373971 {#2381
          date: 2023-12-24 00:26:11.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977944 {#2383
          date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207854
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2030 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          As far as I understand: Price tries to measure value. Therefore: A price needs a value, but value doesn’t need price. They correlate but are not the same.\n
          \n
          Were am I making the mistake? Genuine question.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980069 {#1403
          date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2032 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2024 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2018 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2011 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2021 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2029 …}
        -id: 207987
        -bodyTs: "'correl':24 'doesn':19 'far':2 'genuin':36 'make':33 'measur':9 'mistak':35 'need':14,21 'price':6,13,22 'question':37 'therefor':11 'tri':7 'understand':5 'valu':10,16,18"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487031"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980069 {#2019
          date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207987
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2393 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          There’s not even academical consensus what value actually *is*, AFAIK. Do preasts add value to anything with their labour? If not: Do social counsellors? What if a priest acts as a counsellor? Ask different economists with their theories of value and you’ll get several answers.\n
          \n
          Economic theories aren’t as rigid as theories from the natural sciences or mathematics. They are dependent on the culture in which they are perceived. A non-capitalist society would have different theories or value (or none at all) than we do.\n
          \n
          [This guy can explain it properly](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw), I’m not an economist and kinda regret making that comment.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 6
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701979923 {#2387
          date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@JayDee@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1384 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1383 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1405 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1382 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1404 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1361 …}
        -id: 207981
        -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':99 'academ':5 'act':30 'actual':9 'add':14 'afaik':11 'answer':47 'anyth':17 'aren':50 'ask':34 'capitalist':76 'comment':110 'consensus':6 'counsellor':25,33 'cultur':67 'depend':64 'differ':35,80 'econom':48 'economist':36,104 'even':4 'explain':94 'get':45 'guy':92 'kinda':106 'labour':20 'll':44 'm':101 'make':108 'mathemat':61 'natur':58 'non':75 'non-capitalist':74 'none':85 'perceiv':72 'preast':13 'priest':29 'proper':96 'regret':107 'rigid':53 'scienc':59 'sever':46 'social':24 'societi':77 'theori':39,49,55,81 'valu':8,15,41,83 'would':78 'www.youtube.com':98 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':97"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486914"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373897 {#2392
          date: 2023-12-24 00:24:57.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701979923 {#2394
          date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207981
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2062 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "I wouldn’t have been able to write it this consise, but that’s kind of one thing I wanted to point towards in my original comment."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980622 {#2082
          date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2081 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2098 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2080 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2089 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2095 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2091 …}
        -id: 208044
        -bodyTs: "'abl':6 'comment':27 'consis':11 'kind':15 'one':17 'origin':26 'point':22 'thing':18 'toward':23 'want':20 'wouldn':2 'write':8"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487230"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980622 {#2085
          date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208044
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2035 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          It’s an economic theory and therefore more to be understood as a model on how economics work.\n
          \n
          The natural sciences have a hard core. The theory of gravity depends on how matter interacts in an objective, physical framework. Economic theories basically describe human interaction which are based on psychology and sociology. Therefore they depend on the societal context they are made in.\n
          \n
          If you understand them as models that are tools on how to understand the world, they become more useful in political analysis (I know we are in a meme community here, but everything is politics and so on and so on…).\n
          \n
          I do subscribe to many conclusions the labour theory of value and especially Marx came to. But I want y’all to *remember* that the theory is a mere tool for understanding and not a sacred, holy theory.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980460 {#2020
          date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2031 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2037 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2075 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2079 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2078 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2097 …}
        -id: 208027
        -bodyTs: "'analysi':85 'base':48 'basic':42 'becom':80 'came':119 'communiti':93 'conclus':110 'context':59 'core':25 'depend':30,55 'describ':43 'econom':4,17,40 'especi':117 'everyth':96 'framework':39 'graviti':29 'hard':24 'holi':141 'human':44 'interact':34,45 'know':87 'labour':112 'made':62 'mani':109 'marx':118 'matter':33 'meme':92 'mere':133 'model':14,69 'natur':20 'object':37 'physic':38 'polit':84,98 'psycholog':50 'rememb':127 'sacr':140 'scienc':21 'societ':58 'sociolog':52 'subscrib':107 'theori':5,27,41,113,130,142 'therefor':7,53 'tool':72,134 'understand':66,76,136 'understood':11 'use':82 'valu':115 'want':123 'work':18 'world':78 'y':124"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487165"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980460 {#2013
          date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208027
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2094}
    ]
    -id: 20852
    -titleTs: "'enemi':3 'know':1"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1702038246
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemmy.ml/post/8990722"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701951846 {#2506
      date: 2023-12-07 13:24:06.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2241 …}
  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
  +body: """
    > Why the neutral language all of a sudden?\n
    \n
    I was trying to be understood a bit better.\n
    \n
    > Are you trying to say 'all economic theories and models are not objectively true"?\n
    \n
    Not explicitally, but yeah: models aren’t used for “objective truth”. They’re used to *model* (i.e. simplify) reality to make observations and guesses for the future.\n
    \n
    > Why would that be worth saying in response to the OP?\n
    \n
    I feel like a lot of leftists think that understanding economics starts and ends with “capitalists exploit the labouring class”, while not actually engaging with the subject matter. I guess most can’t even explain LTV properly before getting mad at capitalists.\n
    \n
    As I’ve written before: I agree with most conclusions of marxist analysis that I know and I probably don’t even know half of them. But I think that political analysis should use LTV as a tool to understand the world and not the end of socio-economical disgussion (because that would ignore important parts of today’s economy).\n
    \n
    > It really just seems like you disagree with the ‘your stolen labor value’ claim in the OP, and are attributing it to the ‘labor theory of value’\n
    \n
    I don’t. I wanted to remind people as to make political analysis not too easy by taking the mental shortcut of reducing current capitalism on the problems pointed out by Marx rendition of LTV.\n
    \n
    > (as opposed to dismissing it because you disagree with some portion of the theory you’ve neglected to mention)\n
    \n
    I don’t disagree. I also don’t disagree with the atomic model of Niels Bohr when it comes to calculating electron potential. When it comes to observing e.g. electron spin, that particular model will probably fall flat. That doesn’t mean I “disagree” with the model, though.\n
    \n
    > My hunch is that you don’t feel confident enough in your understanding to make any kind of firm claim and are just dancing around making vague gestures toward ‘labor’ and ‘value’ definitions as a way of avoiding it.\n
    \n
    I’m not too confident in my economic knowledge, true. But I *am* quite confident in how models should be used in soft sciences.\n
    \n
    Addendum: I’d like to kindly ask you to give me a little bit of benefit of the doubt. Otherwise, I’ll just disengage due to that accusatory tone I’m getting from you being a bit exhausting.
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 0
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1701985632 {#2090
    date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
    "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
    "@archomrade@midwest.social"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2140 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2133 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2131 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2138 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2345 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2330 …}
  -id: 208351
  -bodyTs: "'accusatori':392 'actual':92 'addendum':365 'agre':118 'also':259 'analysi':124,143,212 'aren':37 'around':326 'ask':371 'atom':265 'attribut':192 'avoid':339 'benefit':380 'better':17 'bit':16,378,401 'bohr':269 'calcul':274 'capit':224 'capitalist':85,111 'claim':186,321 'class':89 'come':272,279 'conclus':121 'confid':310,345,355 'current':223 'd':367 'danc':325 'definit':334 'disagre':179,242,257,262,297 'disengag':388 'disguss':162 'dismiss':238 'doesn':293 'doubt':383 'due':389 'e.g':282 'easi':215 'econom':24,80,161,348 'economi':172 'electron':275,283 'end':83,157 'engag':93 'enough':311 'even':103,133 'exhaust':402 'explain':104 'explicit':33 'exploit':86 'fall':290 'feel':71,309 'firm':320 'flat':291 'futur':58 'gestur':329 'get':108,396 'give':374 'guess':55,99 'half':135 'hunch':303 'i.e':48 'ignor':166 'import':167 'kind':318,370 'know':127,134 'knowledg':349 'labor':184,196,331 'labour':88 'languag':4 'leftist':76 'like':72,177,368 'littl':377 'll':386 'lot':74 'ltv':105,146,234 'm':342,395 'mad':109 'make':52,210,316,327 'marx':231 'marxist':123 'matter':97 'mean':295 'mental':219 'mention':253 'model':27,36,47,266,287,300,358 'neglect':251 'neutral':3 'niel':268 'object':30,41 'observ':53,281 'op':69,189 'oppos':236 'otherwis':384 'part':168 'particular':286 'peopl':207 'point':228 'polit':142,211 'portion':245 'potenti':276 'probabl':130,289 'problem':227 'proper':106 'quit':354 're':44 'realiti':50 'realli':174 'reduc':222 'remind':206 'rendit':232 'respons':66 'say':22,64 'scienc':364 'seem':176 'shortcut':220 'simplifi':49 'socio':160 'socio-econom':159 'soft':363 'spin':284 'start':81 'stolen':183 'subject':96 'sudden':8 'take':217 'theori':25,197,248 'think':77,140 'though':301 'today':170 'tone':393 'tool':149 'toward':330 'tri':11,20 'true':31,350 'truth':42 'understand':79,151,314 'understood':14 'use':39,45,145,361 'vagu':328 'valu':185,199,333 've':114,250 'want':204 'way':337 'world':153 'worth':63 'would':60,165 'written':115 'yeah':35"
  +ranking: 0
  +commentCount: 0
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5489133"
  +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703384328 {#2093
    date: 2023-12-24 03:18:48.0 +01:00
  }
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701985632 {#2092
    date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 208351
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
56 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2094
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2003 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2559 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2581 …}
    +slug: "Know-your-enemy"
    +title: "Know your enemy"
    +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/4e8abd58-e357-4836-88ce-d57b36597f6b.jpeg"
    +body: null
    +type: "image"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: true
    +commentCount: 76
    +favouriteCount: 676
    +score: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +sticky: false
    +lastActive: DateTime @1702111873 {#2346
      date: 2023-12-09 09:51:13.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2580 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2578 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2575 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2609 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2605 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2622 …}
    +children: [
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1604 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
          +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
          +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
          +image: null
          +parent: null
          +root: null
          +body: """
            Reminder that while the labour theory of value can be practical to understand certain aspects of society, it is still culturally biased and not “objectively” true.\n
            \n
            What creates value can only be answered in a cultural framework.
            """
          +lang: "en"
          +isAdult: false
          +favouriteCount: 12
          +score: 0
          +lastActive: DateTime @1703499828 {#1580
            date: 2023-12-25 11:23:48.0 +01:00
          }
          +ip: null
          +tags: null
          +mentions: [
            "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          ]
          +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1561 …}
          +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1564 …}
          +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1563 …}
          +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1565 …}
          +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1558 …}
          +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1557 …}
          -id: 206964
          -bodyTs: "'answer':33 'aspect':15 'bias':22 'certain':14 'creat':28 'cultur':21,36 'framework':37 'labour':5 'object':25 'practic':11 'remind':1 'societi':17 'still':20 'theori':6 'true':26 'understand':13 'valu':8,29"
          +ranking: 0
          +commentCount: 0
          +upVotes: 0
          +downVotes: 0
          +visibility: "visible             "
          +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5480766"
          +editedAt: null
          +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701964861 {#1550
            date: 2023-12-07 17:01:01.0 +01:00
          }
          +"title": 206964
        }
        +body: """
          You’re right. It’s *one* theory. There is however ongoing debate on which theory is “correct”.\n
          \n
          This vid explains it quite well and with Simpsons clips so the hour of video is bearable:\n
          \n
          [www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw)
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701971365 {#1621
          date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1596 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1702 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1683 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1680 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1686 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1692 …}
        -id: 207387
        -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':37 'bearabl':34 'clip':27 'correct':17 'debat':12 'explain':20 'hour':30 'howev':10 'one':6 'ongo':11 'quit':22 're':2 'right':3 'simpson':26 'theori':7,15 'vid':19 'video':32 'well':23 'www.youtube.com':36 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw)':35"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5483715"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701971365 {#1620
          date: 2023-12-07 18:49:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207387
      }
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1721
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1726 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Umm… Thanks for that unnecessarily aggressive seeming and a bit incompehensible addendum, I guess?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 4
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701975001 {#1723
          date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1728 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1730 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1734 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1727 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1733 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1724 …}
        -id: 207642
        -bodyTs: "'addendum':12 'aggress':6 'bit':10 'guess':14 'incompehens':11 'seem':7 'thank':2 'umm':1 'unnecessarili':5"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485206"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975001 {#1722
          date: 2023-12-07 19:50:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207642
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1616
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1611 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          I was talking about the theory, not value. Sorry if that didn’t come across.\n
          \n
          Now that I think about it: isn’t value culturally determined in many things? Why are apple products more expensive than other computers with the same specs? Why is a ticket to a Billie Eilish concert more valuable than one to my neighbor’s indie rock band?
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701974894 {#1705
          date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1598 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1629 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1626 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1618 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1597 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1731 …}
        -id: 207637
        -bodyTs: "'across':15 'appl':32 'band':62 'billi':49 'come':14 'comput':38 'concert':51 'cultur':25 'determin':26 'didn':12 'eilish':50 'expens':35 'indi':60 'isn':22 'mani':28 'neighbor':58 'one':55 'product':33 'rock':61 'sorri':9 'spec':42 'talk':3 'theori':6 'thing':29 'think':19 'ticket':46 'valu':8,24 'valuabl':53"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485163"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701974894 {#1711
          date: 2023-12-07 19:48:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207637
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1718
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1720 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          Sorry, I interpreted it as aggressive. Figuring out tone in text form is hard and all that. Sorry that I wrongly accused you.\n
          \n
          Things I didn’t get:\n
          \n
          > A reminder that the labour theory of value is not a marxist concept.\n
          \n
          Marx hasn’t been explicity brought up yet (at least not in my comment). Only implicitly in the original post. Again: thought you were attacking me and was like “umm… So what?”\n
          \n
          > When people wave their hands around and say “labor theory of value isn’t objectively true!!”, they’re shadowboxing a ghost.\n
          \n
          I thought you meant me, since that was what I was basically saying. 😅\n
          \n
          > Value != price\n
          \n
          Now, that one wasn’t even implicitly mentioned.\n
          \n
          I hope you don’t hold my misunderstanding against me.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 3
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701975943 {#1715
          date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1716 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1739 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1740 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2465 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2463 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2411 …}
        -id: 207711
        -bodyTs: "'accus':22 'aggress':6 'around':79 'attack':66 'basic':106 'brought':47 'comment':55 'concept':41 'didn':26 'even':115 'explic':46 'figur':7 'form':12 'get':28 'ghost':94 'hand':78 'hard':14 'hasn':43 'hold':123 'hope':119 'implicit':57,116 'interpret':3 'isn':86 'labor':82 'labour':33 'least':51 'like':70 'marx':42 'marxist':40 'meant':98 'mention':117 'misunderstand':125 'object':88 'one':112 'origin':60 'peopl':75 'post':61 'price':109 're':91 'remind':30 'say':81,107 'shadowbox':92 'sinc':100 'sorri':1,18 'text':11 'theori':34,83 'thing':24 'thought':63,96 'tone':9 'true':89 'umm':71 'valu':36,85,108 'wasn':113 'wave':76 'wrong':21 'yet':49"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485494"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701975943 {#1714
          date: 2023-12-07 20:05:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207711
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2458
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2461 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Where?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701976885 {#2422
          date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2456 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2453 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2457 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2455 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2468 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2469 …}
        -id: 207782
        -bodyTs: ""
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5485802"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701976885 {#2462
          date: 2023-12-07 20:21:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207782
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2370 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "Don’t the two correlate?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701977809 {#2471
          date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2377 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2359 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2364 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2380 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2382 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2384 …}
        -id: 207842
        -bodyTs: "'correl':5 'two':4"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486088"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977809 {#2371
          date: 2023-12-07 20:36:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207842
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          > Well now i’m confused. If ‘labor theory of value isn’t objectively true’ isn’t making an argument about the price of a commodity not being equal to the labor it embodies, I am not sure what you’re trying to say by it.\n
          \n
          A theory o value doesn’t necessarily say anything about price. As you said: “value != price”.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701977944 {#2379
          date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1909 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1926 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1874 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1908 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1883 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2389 …}
        -id: 207854
        -bodyTs: "'anyth':54 'argument':19 'commod':25 'confus':5 'doesn':50 'embodi':33 'equal':28 'isn':11,15 'labor':7,31 'm':4 'make':17 'necessarili':52 'o':48 'object':13 'price':22,56,61 're':40 'said':59 'say':43,53 'sure':37 'theori':8,47 'tri':41 'true':14 'valu':10,49,60 'well':1"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486136"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373971 {#2381
          date: 2023-12-24 00:26:11.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701977944 {#2383
          date: 2023-12-07 20:39:04.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207854
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2030 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          As far as I understand: Price tries to measure value. Therefore: A price needs a value, but value doesn’t need price. They correlate but are not the same.\n
          \n
          Were am I making the mistake? Genuine question.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980069 {#1403
          date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2032 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2024 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2018 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2011 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2021 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2029 …}
        -id: 207987
        -bodyTs: "'correl':24 'doesn':19 'far':2 'genuin':36 'make':33 'measur':9 'mistak':35 'need':14,21 'price':6,13,22 'question':37 'therefor':11 'tri':7 'understand':5 'valu':10,16,18"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487031"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980069 {#2019
          date: 2023-12-07 21:14:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207987
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2393 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          There’s not even academical consensus what value actually *is*, AFAIK. Do preasts add value to anything with their labour? If not: Do social counsellors? What if a priest acts as a counsellor? Ask different economists with their theories of value and you’ll get several answers.\n
          \n
          Economic theories aren’t as rigid as theories from the natural sciences or mathematics. They are dependent on the culture in which they are perceived. A non-capitalist society would have different theories or value (or none at all) than we do.\n
          \n
          [This guy can explain it properly](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2LCNAVfMw), I’m not an economist and kinda regret making that comment.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 6
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701979923 {#2387
          date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@JayDee@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1384 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1383 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1405 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1382 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1404 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1361 …}
        -id: 207981
        -bodyTs: "'/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':99 'academ':5 'act':30 'actual':9 'add':14 'afaik':11 'answer':47 'anyth':17 'aren':50 'ask':34 'capitalist':76 'comment':110 'consensus':6 'counsellor':25,33 'cultur':67 'depend':64 'differ':35,80 'econom':48 'economist':36,104 'even':4 'explain':94 'get':45 'guy':92 'kinda':106 'labour':20 'll':44 'm':101 'make':108 'mathemat':61 'natur':58 'non':75 'non-capitalist':74 'none':85 'perceiv':72 'preast':13 'priest':29 'proper':96 'regret':107 'rigid':53 'scienc':59 'sever':46 'social':24 'societi':77 'theori':39,49,55,81 'valu':8,15,41,83 'would':78 'www.youtube.com':98 'www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2lcnavfmw),':97"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5486914"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703373897 {#2392
          date: 2023-12-24 00:24:57.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701979923 {#2394
          date: 2023-12-07 21:12:03.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 207981
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2062 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: "I wouldn’t have been able to write it this consise, but that’s kind of one thing I wanted to point towards in my original comment."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980622 {#2082
          date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2081 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2098 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2080 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2089 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2095 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2091 …}
        -id: 208044
        -bodyTs: "'abl':6 'comment':27 'consis':11 'kind':15 'one':17 'origin':26 'point':22 'thing':18 'toward':23 'want':20 'wouldn':2 'write':8"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487230"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980622 {#2085
          date: 2023-12-07 21:23:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208044
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1567 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2035 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
        +body: """
          It’s an economic theory and therefore more to be understood as a model on how economics work.\n
          \n
          The natural sciences have a hard core. The theory of gravity depends on how matter interacts in an objective, physical framework. Economic theories basically describe human interaction which are based on psychology and sociology. Therefore they depend on the societal context they are made in.\n
          \n
          If you understand them as models that are tools on how to understand the world, they become more useful in political analysis (I know we are in a meme community here, but everything is politics and so on and so on…).\n
          \n
          I do subscribe to many conclusions the labour theory of value and especially Marx came to. But I want y’all to *remember* that the theory is a mere tool for understanding and not a sacred, holy theory.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701980460 {#2020
          date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
          "@archomrade@midwest.social"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2031 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2037 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2075 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2079 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2078 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2097 …}
        -id: 208027
        -bodyTs: "'analysi':85 'base':48 'basic':42 'becom':80 'came':119 'communiti':93 'conclus':110 'context':59 'core':25 'depend':30,55 'describ':43 'econom':4,17,40 'especi':117 'everyth':96 'framework':39 'graviti':29 'hard':24 'holi':141 'human':44 'interact':34,45 'know':87 'labour':112 'made':62 'mani':109 'marx':118 'matter':33 'meme':92 'mere':133 'model':14,69 'natur':20 'object':37 'physic':38 'polit':84,98 'psycholog':50 'rememb':127 'sacr':140 'scienc':21 'societ':58 'sociolog':52 'subscrib':107 'theori':5,27,41,113,130,142 'therefor':7,53 'tool':72,134 'understand':66,76,136 'understood':11 'use':82 'valu':115 'want':123 'work':18 'world':78 'y':124"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5487165"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701980460 {#2013
          date: 2023-12-07 21:21:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 208027
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2094}
    ]
    -id: 20852
    -titleTs: "'enemi':3 'know':1"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1702038246
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemmy.ml/post/8990722"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701951846 {#2506
      date: 2023-12-07 13:24:06.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1527 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2241 …}
  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
  +body: """
    > Why the neutral language all of a sudden?\n
    \n
    I was trying to be understood a bit better.\n
    \n
    > Are you trying to say 'all economic theories and models are not objectively true"?\n
    \n
    Not explicitally, but yeah: models aren’t used for “objective truth”. They’re used to *model* (i.e. simplify) reality to make observations and guesses for the future.\n
    \n
    > Why would that be worth saying in response to the OP?\n
    \n
    I feel like a lot of leftists think that understanding economics starts and ends with “capitalists exploit the labouring class”, while not actually engaging with the subject matter. I guess most can’t even explain LTV properly before getting mad at capitalists.\n
    \n
    As I’ve written before: I agree with most conclusions of marxist analysis that I know and I probably don’t even know half of them. But I think that political analysis should use LTV as a tool to understand the world and not the end of socio-economical disgussion (because that would ignore important parts of today’s economy).\n
    \n
    > It really just seems like you disagree with the ‘your stolen labor value’ claim in the OP, and are attributing it to the ‘labor theory of value’\n
    \n
    I don’t. I wanted to remind people as to make political analysis not too easy by taking the mental shortcut of reducing current capitalism on the problems pointed out by Marx rendition of LTV.\n
    \n
    > (as opposed to dismissing it because you disagree with some portion of the theory you’ve neglected to mention)\n
    \n
    I don’t disagree. I also don’t disagree with the atomic model of Niels Bohr when it comes to calculating electron potential. When it comes to observing e.g. electron spin, that particular model will probably fall flat. That doesn’t mean I “disagree” with the model, though.\n
    \n
    > My hunch is that you don’t feel confident enough in your understanding to make any kind of firm claim and are just dancing around making vague gestures toward ‘labor’ and ‘value’ definitions as a way of avoiding it.\n
    \n
    I’m not too confident in my economic knowledge, true. But I *am* quite confident in how models should be used in soft sciences.\n
    \n
    Addendum: I’d like to kindly ask you to give me a little bit of benefit of the doubt. Otherwise, I’ll just disengage due to that accusatory tone I’m getting from you being a bit exhausting.
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 0
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1701985632 {#2090
    date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
    "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
    "@archomrade@midwest.social"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2140 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2133 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2131 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2138 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2345 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2330 …}
  -id: 208351
  -bodyTs: "'accusatori':392 'actual':92 'addendum':365 'agre':118 'also':259 'analysi':124,143,212 'aren':37 'around':326 'ask':371 'atom':265 'attribut':192 'avoid':339 'benefit':380 'better':17 'bit':16,378,401 'bohr':269 'calcul':274 'capit':224 'capitalist':85,111 'claim':186,321 'class':89 'come':272,279 'conclus':121 'confid':310,345,355 'current':223 'd':367 'danc':325 'definit':334 'disagre':179,242,257,262,297 'disengag':388 'disguss':162 'dismiss':238 'doesn':293 'doubt':383 'due':389 'e.g':282 'easi':215 'econom':24,80,161,348 'economi':172 'electron':275,283 'end':83,157 'engag':93 'enough':311 'even':103,133 'exhaust':402 'explain':104 'explicit':33 'exploit':86 'fall':290 'feel':71,309 'firm':320 'flat':291 'futur':58 'gestur':329 'get':108,396 'give':374 'guess':55,99 'half':135 'hunch':303 'i.e':48 'ignor':166 'import':167 'kind':318,370 'know':127,134 'knowledg':349 'labor':184,196,331 'labour':88 'languag':4 'leftist':76 'like':72,177,368 'littl':377 'll':386 'lot':74 'ltv':105,146,234 'm':342,395 'mad':109 'make':52,210,316,327 'marx':231 'marxist':123 'matter':97 'mean':295 'mental':219 'mention':253 'model':27,36,47,266,287,300,358 'neglect':251 'neutral':3 'niel':268 'object':30,41 'observ':53,281 'op':69,189 'oppos':236 'otherwis':384 'part':168 'particular':286 'peopl':207 'point':228 'polit':142,211 'portion':245 'potenti':276 'probabl':130,289 'problem':227 'proper':106 'quit':354 're':44 'realiti':50 'realli':174 'reduc':222 'remind':206 'rendit':232 'respons':66 'say':22,64 'scienc':364 'seem':176 'shortcut':220 'simplifi':49 'socio':160 'socio-econom':159 'soft':363 'spin':284 'start':81 'stolen':183 'subject':96 'sudden':8 'take':217 'theori':25,197,248 'think':77,140 'though':301 'today':170 'tone':393 'tool':149 'toward':330 'tri':11,20 'true':31,350 'truth':42 'understand':79,151,314 'understood':14 'use':39,45,145,361 'vagu':328 'valu':185,199,333 've':114,250 'want':204 'way':337 'world':153 'worth':63 'would':60,165 'written':115 'yeah':35"
  +ranking: 0
  +commentCount: 0
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5489133"
  +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703384328 {#2093
    date: 2023-12-24 03:18:48.0 +01:00
  }
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701985632 {#2092
    date: 2023-12-07 22:47:12.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 208351
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
57 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
58 DENIED moderate 
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
  +image: null
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2168 …}
  +slug: "Surface-Go-2-with-4GB-Ram-and-4425Y-worth-it"
  +title: "Surface Go 2 with 4GB Ram and 4425Y worth it?"
  +url: null
  +body: """
    Hi! There’s no Surface on Linux Lemmy community (yet), but I didn’t feel like asking on reddit, so I thought that this community is my best bet.\n
    \n
    I was thinking about getting a surface go, since I really like the form factor and have fond memories of my old Surface Pro 3 in Uni.\n
    \n
    Now, there’s a deal going on, where they’re selling the tablet for under 300€, but it’s the low-spec one with 4GB RAM and the weakest processor. I was wondering if I would be doing myself a favor by getting a tablet with these low-end specs.\n
    \n
    My usecases would be: Note taking with rnote/xournalpp, surfing, reading, youtube and maybe some light coding.\n
    \n
    A FOSS system with encrypted home directory is essential for me, which is why I’m not even considering Android/Apple tablets.\n
    \n
    I think I’d give Fedora Silverblue a shot, because Gnome is supposedly great for tablets and it seems more stable to fuck-ups. But maybe the meager storage space (64GB) makes this infeasible\n
    \n
    Do any of you have any experiences with these low specs? Or even with a Surface Go 2 in 2023 daily use?
    """
  +type: "article"
  +lang: "en"
  +isOc: false
  +hasEmbed: false
  +commentCount: 45
  +favouriteCount: 35
  +score: 0
  +isAdult: false
  +sticky: false
  +lastActive: DateTime @1701963384 {#2619
    date: 2023-12-07 16:36:24.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +adaAmount: 0
  +tags: null
  +mentions: null
  +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2624 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2634 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2636 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2638 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2640 …}
  +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2642 …}
  +children: [
    App\Entity\EntryComment {#1696
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1679 …}
      +body: "The SSD is still soldered to the motherboard."
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 0
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1701963384 {#1428
        date: 2023-12-07 16:36:24.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
        "@cmnybo@discuss.tchncs.de"
        "@Blisterexe@lemmy.zip"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1668 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1666 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1669 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1677 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1576 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1587 …}
      -id: 206859
      -bodyTs: "'motherboard':8 'solder':5 'ssd':2 'still':4"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5479996"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701963384 {#1440
        date: 2023-12-07 16:36:24.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 206859
    }
  ]
  -id: 20200
  -titleTs: "'2':3 '4425y':8 '4gb':5 'go':2 'ram':6 'surfac':1 'worth':9"
  -bodyTs: "'2':198 '2023':200 '3':54 '300':72 '4gb':82 '64gb':177 'android/apple':144 'ask':17 'best':28 'bet':29 'code':124 'communiti':9,25 'consid':143 'd':149 'daili':201 'deal':61 'didn':13 'directori':131 'encrypt':129 'end':107 'essenti':133 'even':142,193 'experi':187 'factor':44 'favor':98 'fedora':151 'feel':15 'fond':47 'form':43 'foss':126 'fuck':169 'fuck-up':168 'get':34,100 'give':150 'gnome':156 'go':37,62,197 'great':159 'hi':1 'home':130 'infeas':180 'lemmi':8 'light':123 'like':16,41 'linux':7 'low':78,106,190 'low-end':105 'low-spec':77 'm':140 'make':178 'mayb':121,172 'meager':174 'memori':48 'note':113 'old':51 'one':80 'pro':53 'processor':87 'ram':83 're':66 'read':118 'realli':40 'reddit':19 'rnote/xournalpp':116 'seem':164 'sell':67 'shot':154 'silverblu':152 'sinc':38 'space':176 'spec':79,108,191 'stabl':166 'storag':175 'suppos':158 'surf':117 'surfac':5,36,52,196 'system':127 'tablet':69,102,145,161 'take':114 'think':32,147 'thought':22 'uni':56 'up':170 'use':202 'usecas':110 'weakest':86 'wonder':90 'would':93,111 'yet':10 'youtub':119"
  +cross: false
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +ranking: 1701852421
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://feddit.de/post/6384239"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701766021 {#2540
    date: 2023-12-05 09:47:01.0 +01:00
  }
  +__isInitialized__: true
   …2
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
59 DENIED edit 
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
  +image: null
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2168 …}
  +slug: "Surface-Go-2-with-4GB-Ram-and-4425Y-worth-it"
  +title: "Surface Go 2 with 4GB Ram and 4425Y worth it?"
  +url: null
  +body: """
    Hi! There’s no Surface on Linux Lemmy community (yet), but I didn’t feel like asking on reddit, so I thought that this community is my best bet.\n
    \n
    I was thinking about getting a surface go, since I really like the form factor and have fond memories of my old Surface Pro 3 in Uni.\n
    \n
    Now, there’s a deal going on, where they’re selling the tablet for under 300€, but it’s the low-spec one with 4GB RAM and the weakest processor. I was wondering if I would be doing myself a favor by getting a tablet with these low-end specs.\n
    \n
    My usecases would be: Note taking with rnote/xournalpp, surfing, reading, youtube and maybe some light coding.\n
    \n
    A FOSS system with encrypted home directory is essential for me, which is why I’m not even considering Android/Apple tablets.\n
    \n
    I think I’d give Fedora Silverblue a shot, because Gnome is supposedly great for tablets and it seems more stable to fuck-ups. But maybe the meager storage space (64GB) makes this infeasible\n
    \n
    Do any of you have any experiences with these low specs? Or even with a Surface Go 2 in 2023 daily use?
    """
  +type: "article"
  +lang: "en"
  +isOc: false
  +hasEmbed: false
  +commentCount: 45
  +favouriteCount: 35
  +score: 0
  +isAdult: false
  +sticky: false
  +lastActive: DateTime @1701963384 {#2619
    date: 2023-12-07 16:36:24.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +adaAmount: 0
  +tags: null
  +mentions: null
  +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2624 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2634 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2636 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2638 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2640 …}
  +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2642 …}
  +children: [
    App\Entity\EntryComment {#1696
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1679 …}
      +body: "The SSD is still soldered to the motherboard."
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 0
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1701963384 {#1428
        date: 2023-12-07 16:36:24.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
        "@cmnybo@discuss.tchncs.de"
        "@Blisterexe@lemmy.zip"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1668 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1666 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1669 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1677 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1576 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1587 …}
      -id: 206859
      -bodyTs: "'motherboard':8 'solder':5 'ssd':2 'still':4"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5479996"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701963384 {#1440
        date: 2023-12-07 16:36:24.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 206859
    }
  ]
  -id: 20200
  -titleTs: "'2':3 '4425y':8 '4gb':5 'go':2 'ram':6 'surfac':1 'worth':9"
  -bodyTs: "'2':198 '2023':200 '3':54 '300':72 '4gb':82 '64gb':177 'android/apple':144 'ask':17 'best':28 'bet':29 'code':124 'communiti':9,25 'consid':143 'd':149 'daili':201 'deal':61 'didn':13 'directori':131 'encrypt':129 'end':107 'essenti':133 'even':142,193 'experi':187 'factor':44 'favor':98 'fedora':151 'feel':15 'fond':47 'form':43 'foss':126 'fuck':169 'fuck-up':168 'get':34,100 'give':150 'gnome':156 'go':37,62,197 'great':159 'hi':1 'home':130 'infeas':180 'lemmi':8 'light':123 'like':16,41 'linux':7 'low':78,106,190 'low-end':105 'low-spec':77 'm':140 'make':178 'mayb':121,172 'meager':174 'memori':48 'note':113 'old':51 'one':80 'pro':53 'processor':87 'ram':83 're':66 'read':118 'realli':40 'reddit':19 'rnote/xournalpp':116 'seem':164 'sell':67 'shot':154 'silverblu':152 'sinc':38 'space':176 'spec':79,108,191 'stabl':166 'storag':175 'suppos':158 'surf':117 'surfac':5,36,52,196 'system':127 'tablet':69,102,145,161 'take':114 'think':32,147 'thought':22 'uni':56 'up':170 'use':202 'usecas':110 'weakest':86 'wonder':90 'would':93,111 'yet':10 'youtub':119"
  +cross: false
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +ranking: 1701852421
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://feddit.de/post/6384239"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701766021 {#2540
    date: 2023-12-05 09:47:01.0 +01:00
  }
  +__isInitialized__: true
   …2
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
60 DENIED moderate 
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
  +image: null
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2168 …}
  +slug: "Surface-Go-2-with-4GB-Ram-and-4425Y-worth-it"
  +title: "Surface Go 2 with 4GB Ram and 4425Y worth it?"
  +url: null
  +body: """
    Hi! There’s no Surface on Linux Lemmy community (yet), but I didn’t feel like asking on reddit, so I thought that this community is my best bet.\n
    \n
    I was thinking about getting a surface go, since I really like the form factor and have fond memories of my old Surface Pro 3 in Uni.\n
    \n
    Now, there’s a deal going on, where they’re selling the tablet for under 300€, but it’s the low-spec one with 4GB RAM and the weakest processor. I was wondering if I would be doing myself a favor by getting a tablet with these low-end specs.\n
    \n
    My usecases would be: Note taking with rnote/xournalpp, surfing, reading, youtube and maybe some light coding.\n
    \n
    A FOSS system with encrypted home directory is essential for me, which is why I’m not even considering Android/Apple tablets.\n
    \n
    I think I’d give Fedora Silverblue a shot, because Gnome is supposedly great for tablets and it seems more stable to fuck-ups. But maybe the meager storage space (64GB) makes this infeasible\n
    \n
    Do any of you have any experiences with these low specs? Or even with a Surface Go 2 in 2023 daily use?
    """
  +type: "article"
  +lang: "en"
  +isOc: false
  +hasEmbed: false
  +commentCount: 45
  +favouriteCount: 35
  +score: 0
  +isAdult: false
  +sticky: false
  +lastActive: DateTime @1701963384 {#2619
    date: 2023-12-07 16:36:24.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +adaAmount: 0
  +tags: null
  +mentions: null
  +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2624 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2634 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2636 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2638 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2640 …}
  +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2642 …}
  +children: [
    App\Entity\EntryComment {#1696
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1679 …}
      +body: "The SSD is still soldered to the motherboard."
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 0
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1701963384 {#1428
        date: 2023-12-07 16:36:24.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
        "@cmnybo@discuss.tchncs.de"
        "@Blisterexe@lemmy.zip"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1668 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1666 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1669 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1677 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1576 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1587 …}
      -id: 206859
      -bodyTs: "'motherboard':8 'solder':5 'ssd':2 'still':4"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5479996"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701963384 {#1440
        date: 2023-12-07 16:36:24.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 206859
    }
  ]
  -id: 20200
  -titleTs: "'2':3 '4425y':8 '4gb':5 'go':2 'ram':6 'surfac':1 'worth':9"
  -bodyTs: "'2':198 '2023':200 '3':54 '300':72 '4gb':82 '64gb':177 'android/apple':144 'ask':17 'best':28 'bet':29 'code':124 'communiti':9,25 'consid':143 'd':149 'daili':201 'deal':61 'didn':13 'directori':131 'encrypt':129 'end':107 'essenti':133 'even':142,193 'experi':187 'factor':44 'favor':98 'fedora':151 'feel':15 'fond':47 'form':43 'foss':126 'fuck':169 'fuck-up':168 'get':34,100 'give':150 'gnome':156 'go':37,62,197 'great':159 'hi':1 'home':130 'infeas':180 'lemmi':8 'light':123 'like':16,41 'linux':7 'low':78,106,190 'low-end':105 'low-spec':77 'm':140 'make':178 'mayb':121,172 'meager':174 'memori':48 'note':113 'old':51 'one':80 'pro':53 'processor':87 'ram':83 're':66 'read':118 'realli':40 'reddit':19 'rnote/xournalpp':116 'seem':164 'sell':67 'shot':154 'silverblu':152 'sinc':38 'space':176 'spec':79,108,191 'stabl':166 'storag':175 'suppos':158 'surf':117 'surfac':5,36,52,196 'system':127 'tablet':69,102,145,161 'take':114 'think':32,147 'thought':22 'uni':56 'up':170 'use':202 'usecas':110 'weakest':86 'wonder':90 'would':93,111 'yet':10 'youtub':119"
  +cross: false
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +ranking: 1701852421
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://feddit.de/post/6384239"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701766021 {#2540
    date: 2023-12-05 09:47:01.0 +01:00
  }
  +__isInitialized__: true
   …2
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
61 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
62 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1696
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571
    +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
    +image: null
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2168 …}
    +slug: "Surface-Go-2-with-4GB-Ram-and-4425Y-worth-it"
    +title: "Surface Go 2 with 4GB Ram and 4425Y worth it?"
    +url: null
    +body: """
      Hi! There’s no Surface on Linux Lemmy community (yet), but I didn’t feel like asking on reddit, so I thought that this community is my best bet.\n
      \n
      I was thinking about getting a surface go, since I really like the form factor and have fond memories of my old Surface Pro 3 in Uni.\n
      \n
      Now, there’s a deal going on, where they’re selling the tablet for under 300€, but it’s the low-spec one with 4GB RAM and the weakest processor. I was wondering if I would be doing myself a favor by getting a tablet with these low-end specs.\n
      \n
      My usecases would be: Note taking with rnote/xournalpp, surfing, reading, youtube and maybe some light coding.\n
      \n
      A FOSS system with encrypted home directory is essential for me, which is why I’m not even considering Android/Apple tablets.\n
      \n
      I think I’d give Fedora Silverblue a shot, because Gnome is supposedly great for tablets and it seems more stable to fuck-ups. But maybe the meager storage space (64GB) makes this infeasible\n
      \n
      Do any of you have any experiences with these low specs? Or even with a Surface Go 2 in 2023 daily use?
      """
    +type: "article"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: false
    +commentCount: 45
    +favouriteCount: 35
    +score: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +sticky: false
    +lastActive: DateTime @1701963384 {#2619
      date: 2023-12-07 16:36:24.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2624 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2634 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2636 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2638 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2640 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2642 …}
    +children: [
      App\Entity\EntryComment {#1696}
    ]
    -id: 20200
    -titleTs: "'2':3 '4425y':8 '4gb':5 'go':2 'ram':6 'surfac':1 'worth':9"
    -bodyTs: "'2':198 '2023':200 '3':54 '300':72 '4gb':82 '64gb':177 'android/apple':144 'ask':17 'best':28 'bet':29 'code':124 'communiti':9,25 'consid':143 'd':149 'daili':201 'deal':61 'didn':13 'directori':131 'encrypt':129 'end':107 'essenti':133 'even':142,193 'experi':187 'factor':44 'favor':98 'fedora':151 'feel':15 'fond':47 'form':43 'foss':126 'fuck':169 'fuck-up':168 'get':34,100 'give':150 'gnome':156 'go':37,62,197 'great':159 'hi':1 'home':130 'infeas':180 'lemmi':8 'light':123 'like':16,41 'linux':7 'low':78,106,190 'low-end':105 'low-spec':77 'm':140 'make':178 'mayb':121,172 'meager':174 'memori':48 'note':113 'old':51 'one':80 'pro':53 'processor':87 'ram':83 're':66 'read':118 'realli':40 'reddit':19 'rnote/xournalpp':116 'seem':164 'sell':67 'shot':154 'silverblu':152 'sinc':38 'space':176 'spec':79,108,191 'stabl':166 'storag':175 'suppos':158 'surf':117 'surfac':5,36,52,196 'system':127 'tablet':69,102,145,161 'take':114 'think':32,147 'thought':22 'uni':56 'up':170 'use':202 'usecas':110 'weakest':86 'wonder':90 'would':93,111 'yet':10 'youtub':119"
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1701852421
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://feddit.de/post/6384239"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701766021 {#2540
      date: 2023-12-05 09:47:01.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1679 …}
  +body: "The SSD is still soldered to the motherboard."
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 0
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1701963384 {#1428
    date: 2023-12-07 16:36:24.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
    "@cmnybo@discuss.tchncs.de"
    "@Blisterexe@lemmy.zip"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1668 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1666 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1669 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1677 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1576 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1587 …}
  -id: 206859
  -bodyTs: "'motherboard':8 'solder':5 'ssd':2 'still':4"
  +ranking: 0
  +commentCount: 0
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5479996"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701963384 {#1440
    date: 2023-12-07 16:36:24.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 206859
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
63 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1696
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571
    +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
    +image: null
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2168 …}
    +slug: "Surface-Go-2-with-4GB-Ram-and-4425Y-worth-it"
    +title: "Surface Go 2 with 4GB Ram and 4425Y worth it?"
    +url: null
    +body: """
      Hi! There’s no Surface on Linux Lemmy community (yet), but I didn’t feel like asking on reddit, so I thought that this community is my best bet.\n
      \n
      I was thinking about getting a surface go, since I really like the form factor and have fond memories of my old Surface Pro 3 in Uni.\n
      \n
      Now, there’s a deal going on, where they’re selling the tablet for under 300€, but it’s the low-spec one with 4GB RAM and the weakest processor. I was wondering if I would be doing myself a favor by getting a tablet with these low-end specs.\n
      \n
      My usecases would be: Note taking with rnote/xournalpp, surfing, reading, youtube and maybe some light coding.\n
      \n
      A FOSS system with encrypted home directory is essential for me, which is why I’m not even considering Android/Apple tablets.\n
      \n
      I think I’d give Fedora Silverblue a shot, because Gnome is supposedly great for tablets and it seems more stable to fuck-ups. But maybe the meager storage space (64GB) makes this infeasible\n
      \n
      Do any of you have any experiences with these low specs? Or even with a Surface Go 2 in 2023 daily use?
      """
    +type: "article"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: false
    +commentCount: 45
    +favouriteCount: 35
    +score: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +sticky: false
    +lastActive: DateTime @1701963384 {#2619
      date: 2023-12-07 16:36:24.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2624 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2634 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2636 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2638 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2640 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2642 …}
    +children: [
      App\Entity\EntryComment {#1696}
    ]
    -id: 20200
    -titleTs: "'2':3 '4425y':8 '4gb':5 'go':2 'ram':6 'surfac':1 'worth':9"
    -bodyTs: "'2':198 '2023':200 '3':54 '300':72 '4gb':82 '64gb':177 'android/apple':144 'ask':17 'best':28 'bet':29 'code':124 'communiti':9,25 'consid':143 'd':149 'daili':201 'deal':61 'didn':13 'directori':131 'encrypt':129 'end':107 'essenti':133 'even':142,193 'experi':187 'factor':44 'favor':98 'fedora':151 'feel':15 'fond':47 'form':43 'foss':126 'fuck':169 'fuck-up':168 'get':34,100 'give':150 'gnome':156 'go':37,62,197 'great':159 'hi':1 'home':130 'infeas':180 'lemmi':8 'light':123 'like':16,41 'linux':7 'low':78,106,190 'low-end':105 'low-spec':77 'm':140 'make':178 'mayb':121,172 'meager':174 'memori':48 'note':113 'old':51 'one':80 'pro':53 'processor':87 'ram':83 're':66 'read':118 'realli':40 'reddit':19 'rnote/xournalpp':116 'seem':164 'sell':67 'shot':154 'silverblu':152 'sinc':38 'space':176 'spec':79,108,191 'stabl':166 'storag':175 'suppos':158 'surf':117 'surfac':5,36,52,196 'system':127 'tablet':69,102,145,161 'take':114 'think':32,147 'thought':22 'uni':56 'up':170 'use':202 'usecas':110 'weakest':86 'wonder':90 'would':93,111 'yet':10 'youtub':119"
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1701852421
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://feddit.de/post/6384239"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701766021 {#2540
      date: 2023-12-05 09:47:01.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1679 …}
  +body: "The SSD is still soldered to the motherboard."
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 0
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1701963384 {#1428
    date: 2023-12-07 16:36:24.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
    "@cmnybo@discuss.tchncs.de"
    "@Blisterexe@lemmy.zip"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1668 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1666 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1669 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1677 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1576 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1587 …}
  -id: 206859
  -bodyTs: "'motherboard':8 'solder':5 'ssd':2 'still':4"
  +ranking: 0
  +commentCount: 0
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5479996"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701963384 {#1440
    date: 2023-12-07 16:36:24.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 206859
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
64 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1696
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571
    +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
    +image: null
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2168 …}
    +slug: "Surface-Go-2-with-4GB-Ram-and-4425Y-worth-it"
    +title: "Surface Go 2 with 4GB Ram and 4425Y worth it?"
    +url: null
    +body: """
      Hi! There’s no Surface on Linux Lemmy community (yet), but I didn’t feel like asking on reddit, so I thought that this community is my best bet.\n
      \n
      I was thinking about getting a surface go, since I really like the form factor and have fond memories of my old Surface Pro 3 in Uni.\n
      \n
      Now, there’s a deal going on, where they’re selling the tablet for under 300€, but it’s the low-spec one with 4GB RAM and the weakest processor. I was wondering if I would be doing myself a favor by getting a tablet with these low-end specs.\n
      \n
      My usecases would be: Note taking with rnote/xournalpp, surfing, reading, youtube and maybe some light coding.\n
      \n
      A FOSS system with encrypted home directory is essential for me, which is why I’m not even considering Android/Apple tablets.\n
      \n
      I think I’d give Fedora Silverblue a shot, because Gnome is supposedly great for tablets and it seems more stable to fuck-ups. But maybe the meager storage space (64GB) makes this infeasible\n
      \n
      Do any of you have any experiences with these low specs? Or even with a Surface Go 2 in 2023 daily use?
      """
    +type: "article"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: false
    +commentCount: 45
    +favouriteCount: 35
    +score: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +sticky: false
    +lastActive: DateTime @1701963384 {#2619
      date: 2023-12-07 16:36:24.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2624 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2634 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2636 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2638 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2640 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2642 …}
    +children: [
      App\Entity\EntryComment {#1696}
    ]
    -id: 20200
    -titleTs: "'2':3 '4425y':8 '4gb':5 'go':2 'ram':6 'surfac':1 'worth':9"
    -bodyTs: "'2':198 '2023':200 '3':54 '300':72 '4gb':82 '64gb':177 'android/apple':144 'ask':17 'best':28 'bet':29 'code':124 'communiti':9,25 'consid':143 'd':149 'daili':201 'deal':61 'didn':13 'directori':131 'encrypt':129 'end':107 'essenti':133 'even':142,193 'experi':187 'factor':44 'favor':98 'fedora':151 'feel':15 'fond':47 'form':43 'foss':126 'fuck':169 'fuck-up':168 'get':34,100 'give':150 'gnome':156 'go':37,62,197 'great':159 'hi':1 'home':130 'infeas':180 'lemmi':8 'light':123 'like':16,41 'linux':7 'low':78,106,190 'low-end':105 'low-spec':77 'm':140 'make':178 'mayb':121,172 'meager':174 'memori':48 'note':113 'old':51 'one':80 'pro':53 'processor':87 'ram':83 're':66 'read':118 'realli':40 'reddit':19 'rnote/xournalpp':116 'seem':164 'sell':67 'shot':154 'silverblu':152 'sinc':38 'space':176 'spec':79,108,191 'stabl':166 'storag':175 'suppos':158 'surf':117 'surfac':5,36,52,196 'system':127 'tablet':69,102,145,161 'take':114 'think':32,147 'thought':22 'uni':56 'up':170 'use':202 'usecas':110 'weakest':86 'wonder':90 'would':93,111 'yet':10 'youtub':119"
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1701852421
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://feddit.de/post/6384239"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701766021 {#2540
      date: 2023-12-05 09:47:01.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1679 …}
  +body: "The SSD is still soldered to the motherboard."
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 0
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1701963384 {#1428
    date: 2023-12-07 16:36:24.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@Prunebutt@feddit.de"
    "@cmnybo@discuss.tchncs.de"
    "@Blisterexe@lemmy.zip"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1668 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1666 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1669 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1677 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1576 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1587 …}
  -id: 206859
  -bodyTs: "'motherboard':8 'solder':5 'ssd':2 'still':4"
  +ranking: 0
  +commentCount: 0
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/5479996"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701963384 {#1440
    date: 2023-12-07 16:36:24.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 206859
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
65 DENIED ROLE_ADMIN 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
66 DENIED ROLE_MODERATOR 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details