Symfony Profiler

Security

Token

There is no security token.

Firewall

main Name

Security enabled

Stateless

Configuration

Key	Value
provider	security.user.provider.concrete.app_user_provider
context	main
entry_point	App\Security\KbinAuthenticator
user_checker	App\Security\UserChecker
access_denied_handler	(none)
access_denied_url	(none)
authenticators	[`"two_factor" "remember_me" "App\Security\KbinAuthenticator" "App\Security\FacebookAuthenticator" "App\Security\GoogleAuthenticator" "App\Security\GithubAuthenticator" "App\Security\KeycloakAuthenticator"`]

Listeners

Listener	Duration	Response
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\ChannelListener {#723`-map: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\AccessMap {#722 …} -logger: Monolog\Logger {#783 …} -httpPort: 80 -httpsPort: 443`}	0.00 ms	(none)
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\ContextListener {#706-tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\TokenStorage {#1017 …} -sessionKey: "_security_main" -logger: Monolog\Logger {#783 …} -userProviders: Symfony\Component\DependencyInjection\Argument\RewindableGenerator {#705 …} -dispatcher: Symfony\Component\EventDispatcher\Debug\TraceableEventDispatcher {#747 …} -registered: false -trustResolver: Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authentication\AuthenticationTrustResolver {#780 …} -sessionTrackerEnabler: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage::enableUsageTracking(): void {#703 …}}	0.27 ms	(none)
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\AuthenticatorManagerListener {#584`-authenticatorManager: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Authentication\AuthenticatorManager {#595 …}`}	0.00 ms	(none)
Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Http\Firewall\TwoFactorAccessListener {#582`-twoFactorFirewallConfig: Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\TwoFactor\TwoFactorFirewallConfig {#842 …} -tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage {#1018 …} -twoFactorAccessDecider: Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\TwoFactorAccessDecider {#581 …}`}	0.06 ms	(none)
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\AccessListener {#579`-tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage {#1018 …} -accessDecisionManager: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\TraceableAccessDecisionManager {#937 …} -map: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\AccessMap {#722 …}`}	0.00 ms	(none)
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\LogoutListener {#786`-tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage {#1018 …} -options: [ "csrf_parameter" => "_csrf_token" "csrf_token_id" => "logout" "logout_path" => "app_logout" ] -httpUtils: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\HttpUtils {#841 …} -csrfTokenManager: Symfony\Component\Security\Csrf\CsrfTokenManager {#1015 …} -eventDispatcher: Symfony\Component\EventDispatcher\Debug\TraceableEventDispatcher {#747 …}`}	0.00 ms	(none)

Authenticators

No authenticators have been recorded. Check previous profiles on your authentication endpoint.

Access Decision

affirmative Strategy


"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\AuthenticatedVoter"
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\ExpressionVoter"
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"

#	Voter class
1	"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\AuthenticatedVoter"
2	"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
3	"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
4	"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\ExpressionVoter"
5	"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
6	"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
7	"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
8	"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
9	"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
10	"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
11	"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
12	"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
13	"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
14	"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"

Access decision log


null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2221
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2557 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1573 …}
  +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2629 …}
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2651 …}
  +slug: "Let-s-goooooo"
  +title: "Let's goooooo"
  +url: "https://mander.xyz/pictrs/image/53f83f2a-fd8f-4119-b386-f49b6e97ca0f.webp"
  +body: null
  +type: "link"
  +lang: "en"
  +isOc: false
  +hasEmbed: true
  +commentCount: 72
  +favouriteCount: 956
  +score: 0
  +isAdult: false
  +sticky: false
  +lastActive: DateTime @1724364214 {#2266
    date: 2024-08-23 00:03:34.0 +02:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +adaAmount: 0
  +tags: null
  +mentions: null
  +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2650 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2648 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2645 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2679 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2675 …}
  +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2692 …}
  +children: [
    App\Entity\EntryComment {#2222
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2221 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1573 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2219 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2217 …}
      +body: """
        > Genital Reveal Party\n
        \n
        Children welcome!
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 3
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1705265987 {#2220
        date: 2024-01-14 21:59:47.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@fossilesque@mander.xyz"
        "@HiImThomasPynchon@hexbear.net"
        "@ryannathans@aussie.zone"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2196 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2194 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2193 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2205 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2202 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2210 …}
      -id: 308964
      -bodyTs: "'children':4 'genit':1 'parti':3 'reveal':2 'welcom':5"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://hexbear.net/comment/4483364"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705265987 {#2218
        date: 2024-01-14 21:59:47.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 308964
    }
  ]
  -id: 30432
  -titleTs: "'goooooo':3 'let':1"
  -bodyTs: null
  +cross: false
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +ranking: 1705334880
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://mander.xyz/post/8442900"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705248480 {#2602
    date: 2024-01-14 17:08:00.0 +01:00
  }
  +__isInitialized__: true
   …2
}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2221
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2557 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1573 …}
  +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2629 …}
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2651 …}
  +slug: "Let-s-goooooo"
  +title: "Let's goooooo"
  +url: "https://mander.xyz/pictrs/image/53f83f2a-fd8f-4119-b386-f49b6e97ca0f.webp"
  +body: null
  +type: "link"
  +lang: "en"
  +isOc: false
  +hasEmbed: true
  +commentCount: 72
  +favouriteCount: 956
  +score: 0
  +isAdult: false
  +sticky: false
  +lastActive: DateTime @1724364214 {#2266
    date: 2024-08-23 00:03:34.0 +02:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +adaAmount: 0
  +tags: null
  +mentions: null
  +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2650 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2648 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2645 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2679 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2675 …}
  +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2692 …}
  +children: [
    App\Entity\EntryComment {#2222
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2221 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1573 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2219 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2217 …}
      +body: """
        > Genital Reveal Party\n
        \n
        Children welcome!
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 3
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1705265987 {#2220
        date: 2024-01-14 21:59:47.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@fossilesque@mander.xyz"
        "@HiImThomasPynchon@hexbear.net"
        "@ryannathans@aussie.zone"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2196 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2194 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2193 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2205 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2202 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2210 …}
      -id: 308964
      -bodyTs: "'children':4 'genit':1 'parti':3 'reveal':2 'welcom':5"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://hexbear.net/comment/4483364"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705265987 {#2218
        date: 2024-01-14 21:59:47.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 308964
    }
  ]
  -id: 30432
  -titleTs: "'goooooo':3 'let':1"
  -bodyTs: null
  +cross: false
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +ranking: 1705334880
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://mander.xyz/post/8442900"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705248480 {#2602
    date: 2024-01-14 17:08:00.0 +01:00
  }
  +__isInitialized__: true
   …2
}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2221
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2557 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1573 …}
  +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2629 …}
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2651 …}
  +slug: "Let-s-goooooo"
  +title: "Let's goooooo"
  +url: "https://mander.xyz/pictrs/image/53f83f2a-fd8f-4119-b386-f49b6e97ca0f.webp"
  +body: null
  +type: "link"
  +lang: "en"
  +isOc: false
  +hasEmbed: true
  +commentCount: 72
  +favouriteCount: 956
  +score: 0
  +isAdult: false
  +sticky: false
  +lastActive: DateTime @1724364214 {#2266
    date: 2024-08-23 00:03:34.0 +02:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +adaAmount: 0
  +tags: null
  +mentions: null
  +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2650 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2648 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2645 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2679 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2675 …}
  +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2692 …}
  +children: [
    App\Entity\EntryComment {#2222
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2221 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1573 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2219 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2217 …}
      +body: """
        > Genital Reveal Party\n
        \n
        Children welcome!
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 3
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1705265987 {#2220
        date: 2024-01-14 21:59:47.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@fossilesque@mander.xyz"
        "@HiImThomasPynchon@hexbear.net"
        "@ryannathans@aussie.zone"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2196 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2194 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2193 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2205 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2202 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2210 …}
      -id: 308964
      -bodyTs: "'children':4 'genit':1 'parti':3 'reveal':2 'welcom':5"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://hexbear.net/comment/4483364"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705265987 {#2218
        date: 2024-01-14 21:59:47.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 308964
    }
  ]
  -id: 30432
  -titleTs: "'goooooo':3 'let':1"
  -bodyTs: null
  +cross: false
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +ranking: 1705334880
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://mander.xyz/post/8442900"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705248480 {#2602
    date: 2024-01-14 17:08:00.0 +01:00
  }
  +__isInitialized__: true
   …2
}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2222
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2221
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2557 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1573 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2629 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2651 …}
    +slug: "Let-s-goooooo"
    +title: "Let's goooooo"
    +url: "https://mander.xyz/pictrs/image/53f83f2a-fd8f-4119-b386-f49b6e97ca0f.webp"
    +body: null
    +type: "link"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: true
    +commentCount: 72
    +favouriteCount: 956
    +score: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +sticky: false
    +lastActive: DateTime @1724364214 {#2266
      date: 2024-08-23 00:03:34.0 +02:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2650 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2648 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2645 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2679 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2675 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2692 …}
    +children: [
      App\Entity\EntryComment {#2222}
    ]
    -id: 30432
    -titleTs: "'goooooo':3 'let':1"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1705334880
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://mander.xyz/post/8442900"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705248480 {#2602
      date: 2024-01-14 17:08:00.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1573 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2219 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2217 …}
  +body: """
    > Genital Reveal Party\n
    \n
    Children welcome!
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 3
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1705265987 {#2220
    date: 2024-01-14 21:59:47.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@fossilesque@mander.xyz"
    "@HiImThomasPynchon@hexbear.net"
    "@ryannathans@aussie.zone"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2196 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2194 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2193 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2205 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2202 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2210 …}
  -id: 308964
  -bodyTs: "'children':4 'genit':1 'parti':3 'reveal':2 'welcom':5"
  +ranking: 0
  +commentCount: 0
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://hexbear.net/comment/4483364"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705265987 {#2218
    date: 2024-01-14 21:59:47.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 308964
}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2222
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2221
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2557 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1573 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2629 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2651 …}
    +slug: "Let-s-goooooo"
    +title: "Let's goooooo"
    +url: "https://mander.xyz/pictrs/image/53f83f2a-fd8f-4119-b386-f49b6e97ca0f.webp"
    +body: null
    +type: "link"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: true
    +commentCount: 72
    +favouriteCount: 956
    +score: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +sticky: false
    +lastActive: DateTime @1724364214 {#2266
      date: 2024-08-23 00:03:34.0 +02:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2650 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2648 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2645 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2679 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2675 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2692 …}
    +children: [
      App\Entity\EntryComment {#2222}
    ]
    -id: 30432
    -titleTs: "'goooooo':3 'let':1"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1705334880
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://mander.xyz/post/8442900"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705248480 {#2602
      date: 2024-01-14 17:08:00.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1573 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2219 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2217 …}
  +body: """
    > Genital Reveal Party\n
    \n
    Children welcome!
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 3
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1705265987 {#2220
    date: 2024-01-14 21:59:47.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@fossilesque@mander.xyz"
    "@HiImThomasPynchon@hexbear.net"
    "@ryannathans@aussie.zone"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2196 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2194 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2193 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2205 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2202 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2210 …}
  -id: 308964
  -bodyTs: "'children':4 'genit':1 'parti':3 'reveal':2 'welcom':5"
  +ranking: 0
  +commentCount: 0
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://hexbear.net/comment/4483364"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705265987 {#2218
    date: 2024-01-14 21:59:47.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 308964
}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2222
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2221
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2557 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1573 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2629 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2651 …}
    +slug: "Let-s-goooooo"
    +title: "Let's goooooo"
    +url: "https://mander.xyz/pictrs/image/53f83f2a-fd8f-4119-b386-f49b6e97ca0f.webp"
    +body: null
    +type: "link"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: true
    +commentCount: 72
    +favouriteCount: 956
    +score: 0
    +isAdult: false
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    }
    +ip: null
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    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2650 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2648 …}
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    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2679 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2675 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2692 …}
    +children: [
      App\Entity\EntryComment {#2222}
    ]
    -id: 30432
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    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1573 …}
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  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2217 …}
  +body: """
    > Genital Reveal Party\n
    \n
    Children welcome!
    """
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    "@HiImThomasPynchon@hexbear.net"
    "@ryannathans@aussie.zone"
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  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2196 …}
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1691
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  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
  +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2761 …}
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2723 …}
  +slug: "Electric-cars-The-equivalent-of-switching-from-binge-drinking-whiskey"
  +title: "Electric cars: The equivalent of switching from binge drinking whiskey to binge drinking wine."
  +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/8f35eda8-136e-4266-a7b9-3f913fe65886.png"
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  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2771 …}
  +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2773 …}
  +children: [
    1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1692
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1691 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1689 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1689 …}
      +body: """
        The thing is you’re just not right. EVs serve to save the car, not the world.\n
        \n
        > It’s not like without EVs, so many people would be rushing to areas of greater density and riding public transit, so your message\n
        \n
        Correct! Which is why you should fight cars in general, cause then that happens
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 31
      +score: 0
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        date: 2023-12-31 12:07:19.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
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      +mentions: [
        "@HiddenLayer5@lemmy.ml"
        "@Floon@lemmy.ml"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1680 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1683 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1702 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1596 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1613 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1621 …}
      -id: 267127
      -bodyTs: "'area':31 'car':14,49 'caus':52 'correct':42 'densiti':34 'ev':9,23 'fight':48 'general':51 'greater':33 'happen':55 'like':21 'mani':25 'messag':41 'peopl':26 'public':37 're':5 'ride':36 'right':8 'rush':29 'save':12 'serv':10 'thing':2 'transit':38 'without':22 'world':17 'would':27"
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        date: 2023-12-31 12:07:19.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 267127
    }
    0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1725
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1691 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1723 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1722 …}
      +body: """
        > Fuck urban rents, how about that?\n
        \n
        Boy I wonder where we might be able to find lots and lots of space within a city for new construction to densify it.
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
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      +ip: null
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        "@HiddenLayer5@lemmy.ml"
        "@BestBouclettes@jlai.lu"
        "@420stalin69@hexbear.net"
        "@Floon@lemmy.ml"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1721 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1728 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1730 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1734 …}
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      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1733 …}
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  ]
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    date: 2023-12-30 19:15:44.0 +01:00
  }
  +__isInitialized__: true
   …2
}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1691
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  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
  +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2761 …}
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2723 …}
  +slug: "Electric-cars-The-equivalent-of-switching-from-binge-drinking-whiskey"
  +title: "Electric cars: The equivalent of switching from binge drinking whiskey to binge drinking wine."
  +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/8f35eda8-136e-4266-a7b9-3f913fe65886.png"
  +body: null
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    date: 2024-08-13 06:20:26.0 +02:00
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  +ip: null
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  +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2763 …}
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  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2769 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2771 …}
  +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2773 …}
  +children: [
    1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1692
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1691 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1689 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1689 …}
      +body: """
        The thing is you’re just not right. EVs serve to save the car, not the world.\n
        \n
        > It’s not like without EVs, so many people would be rushing to areas of greater density and riding public transit, so your message\n
        \n
        Correct! Which is why you should fight cars in general, cause then that happens
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
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      +score: 0
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        date: 2023-12-31 12:07:19.0 +01:00
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        "@HiddenLayer5@lemmy.ml"
        "@Floon@lemmy.ml"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1680 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1683 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1702 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1596 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1613 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1621 …}
      -id: 267127
      -bodyTs: "'area':31 'car':14,49 'caus':52 'correct':42 'densiti':34 'ev':9,23 'fight':48 'general':51 'greater':33 'happen':55 'like':21 'mani':25 'messag':41 'peopl':26 'public':37 're':5 'ride':36 'right':8 'rush':29 'save':12 'serv':10 'thing':2 'transit':38 'without':22 'world':17 'would':27"
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      +"title": 267127
    }
    0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1725
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1723 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1722 …}
      +body: """
        > Fuck urban rents, how about that?\n
        \n
        Boy I wonder where we might be able to find lots and lots of space within a city for new construction to densify it.
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
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        date: 2023-12-31 12:08:42.0 +01:00
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        "@HiddenLayer5@lemmy.ml"
        "@BestBouclettes@jlai.lu"
        "@420stalin69@hexbear.net"
        "@Floon@lemmy.ml"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1721 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1728 …}
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      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1734 …}
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    date: 2023-12-30 19:15:44.0 +01:00
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  +__isInitialized__: true
   …2
}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1691
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2719 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
  +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2761 …}
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2723 …}
  +slug: "Electric-cars-The-equivalent-of-switching-from-binge-drinking-whiskey"
  +title: "Electric cars: The equivalent of switching from binge drinking whiskey to binge drinking wine."
  +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/8f35eda8-136e-4266-a7b9-3f913fe65886.png"
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  +ip: null
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  +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2763 …}
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  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2769 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2771 …}
  +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2773 …}
  +children: [
    1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1692
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1691 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1689 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1689 …}
      +body: """
        The thing is you’re just not right. EVs serve to save the car, not the world.\n
        \n
        > It’s not like without EVs, so many people would be rushing to areas of greater density and riding public transit, so your message\n
        \n
        Correct! Which is why you should fight cars in general, cause then that happens
        """
      +lang: "en"
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        "@HiddenLayer5@lemmy.ml"
        "@Floon@lemmy.ml"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1680 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1683 …}
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      -id: 267127
      -bodyTs: "'area':31 'car':14,49 'caus':52 'correct':42 'densiti':34 'ev':9,23 'fight':48 'general':51 'greater':33 'happen':55 'like':21 'mani':25 'messag':41 'peopl':26 'public':37 're':5 'ride':36 'right':8 'rush':29 'save':12 'serv':10 'thing':2 'transit':38 'without':22 'world':17 'would':27"
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      +"title": 267127
    }
    0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1725
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1691 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1723 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1722 …}
      +body: """
        > Fuck urban rents, how about that?\n
        \n
        Boy I wonder where we might be able to find lots and lots of space within a city for new construction to densify it.
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 16
      +score: 0
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        date: 2023-12-31 12:08:42.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@HiddenLayer5@lemmy.ml"
        "@BestBouclettes@jlai.lu"
        "@420stalin69@hexbear.net"
        "@Floon@lemmy.ml"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1721 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1728 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1730 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1734 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1727 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1733 …}
      -id: 267130
      -bodyTs: "'abl':14 'boy':7 'citi':24 'construct':27 'densifi':29 'find':16 'fuck':1 'lot':17,19 'might':12 'new':26 'rent':3 'space':21 'urban':2 'within':22 'wonder':9"
      +ranking: 0
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      +"title": 267130
    }
  ]
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    date: 2023-12-30 19:15:44.0 +01:00
  }
  +__isInitialized__: true
   …2
}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1692
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1691
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2719 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2761 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2723 …}
    +slug: "Electric-cars-The-equivalent-of-switching-from-binge-drinking-whiskey"
    +title: "Electric cars: The equivalent of switching from binge drinking whiskey to binge drinking wine."
    +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/8f35eda8-136e-4266-a7b9-3f913fe65886.png"
    +body: null
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      date: 2024-08-13 06:20:26.0 +02:00
    }
    +ip: null
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    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2763 …}
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    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2771 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2773 …}
    +children: [
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1692}
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1725
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
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          > Fuck urban rents, how about that?\n
          \n
          Boy I wonder where we might be able to find lots and lots of space within a city for new construction to densify it.
          """
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    The thing is you’re just not right. EVs serve to save the car, not the world.\n
    \n
    > It’s not like without EVs, so many people would be rushing to areas of greater density and riding public transit, so your message\n
    \n
    Correct! Which is why you should fight cars in general, cause then that happens
    """
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1692
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          > Fuck urban rents, how about that?\n
          \n
          Boy I wonder where we might be able to find lots and lots of space within a city for new construction to densify it.
          """
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    The thing is you’re just not right. EVs serve to save the car, not the world.\n
    \n
    > It’s not like without EVs, so many people would be rushing to areas of greater density and riding public transit, so your message\n
    \n
    Correct! Which is why you should fight cars in general, cause then that happens
    """
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1692
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          > Fuck urban rents, how about that?\n
          \n
          Boy I wonder where we might be able to find lots and lots of space within a city for new construction to densify it.
          """
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    The thing is you’re just not right. EVs serve to save the car, not the world.\n
    \n
    > It’s not like without EVs, so many people would be rushing to areas of greater density and riding public transit, so your message\n
    \n
    Correct! Which is why you should fight cars in general, cause then that happens
    """
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
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          The thing is you’re just not right. EVs serve to save the car, not the world.\n
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          > It’s not like without EVs, so many people would be rushing to areas of greater density and riding public transit, so your message\n
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    > Fuck urban rents, how about that?\n
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    Boy I wonder where we might be able to find lots and lots of space within a city for new construction to densify it.
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          The thing is you’re just not right. EVs serve to save the car, not the world.\n
          \n
          > It’s not like without EVs, so many people would be rushing to areas of greater density and riding public transit, so your message\n
          \n
          Correct! Which is why you should fight cars in general, cause then that happens
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    > Fuck urban rents, how about that?\n
    \n
    Boy I wonder where we might be able to find lots and lots of space within a city for new construction to densify it.
    """
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1725
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          The thing is you’re just not right. EVs serve to save the car, not the world.\n
          \n
          > It’s not like without EVs, so many people would be rushing to areas of greater density and riding public transit, so your message\n
          \n
          Correct! Which is why you should fight cars in general, cause then that happens
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     …2
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    > Fuck urban rents, how about that?\n
    \n
    Boy I wonder where we might be able to find lots and lots of space within a city for new construction to densify it.
    """
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1714
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  +slug: "God-bless-the-imperial-system-and-bald-eagles-oil-too"
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  +children: [
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      +body: "Car infrastructure is just, and I do mean this seriously, unimaginably expensive. If you do not priotize the car you have such a shitton of money left over you can just put like, chandeliers in your metro stations."
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    0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2458
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      ]
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1714
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  +children: [
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    0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2458
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1714
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  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1579 …}
  +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2741 …}
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2743 …}
  +slug: "God-bless-the-imperial-system-and-bald-eagles-oil-too"
  +title: "God bless the imperial system and bald eagles 🦅🦅🦅🦅 (oil too)"
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  +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2744 …}
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  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2752 …}
  +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2754 …}
  +children: [
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    0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2458
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      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1579 …}
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        "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
      ]
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1715
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        ]
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1715
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1715
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2458
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2458
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2458
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2126
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  +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2721 …}
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2126
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2126
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  +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2721 …}
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2723 …}
  +slug: "No-context"
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2127
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    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2721 …}
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  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1579 …}
  +image: null
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    ![zizek-theory](https://www.hexbear.net/pictrs/image/70c62714-1856-49b0-8cda-fa7a0ba2bf9e.png "emoji zizek-theory")\n
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    but genuinely he has a bit about this. toilet habits are oddly politically important
    """
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2127
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    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2721 …}
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  +image: null
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    ![zizek-theory](https://www.hexbear.net/pictrs/image/70c62714-1856-49b0-8cda-fa7a0ba2bf9e.png "emoji zizek-theory")\n
    \n
    but genuinely he has a bit about this. toilet habits are oddly politically important
    """
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2127
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    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1579 …}
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    +slug: "No-context"
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  +image: null
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    ![zizek-theory](https://www.hexbear.net/pictrs/image/70c62714-1856-49b0-8cda-fa7a0ba2bf9e.png "emoji zizek-theory")\n
    \n
    but genuinely he has a bit about this. toilet habits are oddly politically important
    """
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370
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  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
  +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2694 …}
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2695 …}
  +slug: "Speed-camera-cut-down-for-second-time-in-Cornwall"
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  +children: [
    15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
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      +body: "I mean so what’s to be done then. I agree on “redesign pretty much every street or road” but like, until then, it’s just a great big free for all?"
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    14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
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        > The US, for instance, doesn’t have speed cameras\n
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        That’s just straight up wrong.
        """
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        date: 2024-01-07 12:01:02.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 288397
    }
    13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2393 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
      +body: "Speaking from germany, 33 in a 30 wouldn’t even trip the speed cams here. Earliest infraction is basically doing 6mph over on a 30mph road, which would come at 50€ fine. We apparently also have 50 times less speed cameras and it absolutely does not stop people from fucking malding over them. They have to be designed bulletproof here now and even those still get regularly blown up. None of the points you raise change anything about it, because the core issue is people are terminally car brained"
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        "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
        "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
        "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
        "@Saff@lemmy.ml"
      ]
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      -bodyTs: "'30':7 '30mph':25 '33':4 '50':31,37 '6mph':21 'absolut':44 'also':35 'anyth':77 'appar':34 'basic':19 'blown':68 'brain':89 'bulletproof':59 'cam':14 'camera':41 'car':88 'chang':76 'come':29 'core':82 'design':58 'earliest':16 'even':10,63 'fine':32 'fuck':50 'germani':3 'get':66 'infract':17 'issu':83 'less':39 'mald':51 'none':70 'peopl':48,85 'point':73 'rais':75 'regular':67 'road':26 'speak':1 'speed':13,40 'still':65 'stop':47 'termin':87 'time':38 'trip':11 'would':28 'wouldn':8"
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        date: 2024-01-07 15:15:31.0 +01:00
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      +"title": 288725
    }
    12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2030 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
      +body: "I’m not sure if you’re being serious here"
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
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        date: 2024-01-07 19:25:09.0 +01:00
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        "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
        "@Rom@hexbear.net"
        "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
        "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
      ]
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      -id: 289601
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        date: 2024-01-07 19:25:09.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 289601
    }
    11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2035 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
      +body: """
        > Why not?\n
        \n
        Because that’s hardly what can be considered a realistic solution. Again, not against it, but what, are you gonna close down like 90% of roads? Only some of them, if so, which ones, and how is stuff handled on the ones that remain open?
        """
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        date: 2024-01-07 19:42:56.0 +01:00
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        "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
        "@Rom@hexbear.net"
        "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
        "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
      ]
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        date: 2024-01-07 19:42:56.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 289649
    }
    10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
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      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2062 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
      +body: """
        > just roads that “require” speed cameras.\n
        \n
        So when’s that the case or not
        """
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        "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
        "@Rom@hexbear.net"
        "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
        "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
      ]
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        date: 2024-01-07 19:58:47.0 +01:00
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    9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2092
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2094 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
      +body: "It’s a bad TL;DR but they do lay out why it’s illegal"
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
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        date: 2024-01-07 20:56:29.0 +01:00
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        "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
        "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
        "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
        "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2241 …}
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      -id: 289800
      -bodyTs: "'bad':4 'dr':6 'illeg':15 'lay':10 'tl':5"
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        date: 2024-01-07 20:56:29.0 +01:00
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    8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2351
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2347 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
      +body: "What’s your usual transportation method?"
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 0
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        date: 2024-01-08 17:03:55.0 +01:00
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        "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
        "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
        "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
        "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
        "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
      ]
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      -id: 291985
      -bodyTs: "'method':6 'transport':5 'usual':4"
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        date: 2024-01-08 17:03:55.0 +01:00
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      +"title": 291985
    }
    7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2327
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
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      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2333 …}
      +body: """
        > You want people to actually slow down? Redesign the road.\n
        \n
        I’ve posed this question elsewhere in this thread and: what until then? Like what do you do until a good, what, 50 - 90% of road depending on criteria, is redesigned?
        """
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        "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
        "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
      ]
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      -id: 291989
      -bodyTs: "'50':33 '90':34 'actual':5 'criteria':39 'depend':37 'elsewher':16 'good':31 'like':24 'peopl':3 'pose':13 'question':15 'redesign':8,41 'road':10,36 'slow':6 'thread':19 've':12 'want':2"
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    6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2143
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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      +body: """
        > Croydon council responded to FOI request stating it costs £2.5-£3.5k to install traffic islands. The cost of a speed camera installation on the other hand is £85,000 according to Bedford Council, with a £5000 annual upkeep cost.\n
        \n
        Croydon cites average cost for roughly such an action at 2,5k - 3,5k in a denial of the FOI request which means there’s pretty much no way to know how much it actually costs depending on what they calculate the average on and if you have any idea about the cost of public works that number should strike you as very, very oddly low.\n
        \n
        Wiltshire government [here](https://www.wiltshire.gov.uk/article/1281/Costs-of-highway-works) cites about 45.000k for a traffic island narrowing a road to one lane, all in all.\n
        \n
        The source you cite for the cameras, however, puts those costs for 2 cameras, so 42,500 a pop / 2500 upkeep annual, albeit with returns via fines obviously.
        """
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        "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
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        date: 2024-01-08 17:33:32.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 291995
    }
    5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2051
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      +body: """
        > The process and length of time it takes for either option are practically the same.\n
        \n
        Sure, but you’re arguing for like instant speed camera abolishment or destruction here, aye?\n
        \n
        > Not to mention a traffic island costs like £3k while a camera costs £85k (guess why they pick the camera despite the price).\n
        \n
        Dunno if you got to that one already but I’ve did a reply pointing out where you’re a bit off there
        """
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    4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2104
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      +body: """
        You can just say yes, you don’t have to couch this shit in a good WKUK skit.\n
        \n
        Do they do harm to the poor that are on bicycles, or walking, then?
        """
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        "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
        "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
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      -id: 292004
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      +"title": 292004
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    3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2118
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      +body: """
        > Having been to court twice for online related stuff I will absolutely couch this shit.\n
        \n
        Fair, I meant it more on “don’t do it on my accord”\n
        \n
        > I do not see how that question is doing anything but attempting some sort of gotcha or accusation that these people\n
        \n
        Your these people just seems to have some very oddly drawn lines is the heart of it. It does include poor drivers, to whom speed cameras are a problem and not that much of a solution, it does not seem to include poor people not in a car, who profit from this. My FALGSOC doesn’t have speed cameras in it - who’s would - but it’s a long way from here to there.\n
        \n
        > deserve to be fucked over instead of have real designs that don’t result in their lives being made harder. It seems like spite to me.\n
        \n
        This is running on the assumption that I think people deserve to be fucked over for speeding, and that’s the main motivation. Sure, some of them, but that’s not the kind of distinction a speed cam could make on account of how it works. I’d very much be open to them not issuing fines but other punishments - as appropiate - to not make them so classist. Loss of driving license, if you really, really fuck up in a sports car that gets impounded or such, but I’ll concede, even that is far out from today, but just to point it out,\n
        \n
        My point here is that for every one it fucks over, it helps other people not being fucked over, because it does do something against speeding. My line of reasoning for speed cams is not that it fucks people over, it’s that it helps people. You wanna focus on the first part, I’m trying to get you to see the issue is more complex than that, at least if you include people outside of cars in your consideration. They’re not a good solution, by any means, again, I assume our optimal way of solving it is quite similar. For the meantime though, the fuck else do you do? Just abandon all traffic enforcement until all the roads get fixed? So what, 20 years of being vulnerable road users being even more endangered than now?
        """
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        > A negative in the short term leads to a longterm positive.\n
        \n
        I do not want to die a martyr to the fight against traffic cams.\n
        \n
        > Also I see no other method of doing this. If you go to the council and say “I want to replace this highly profitable traffic camera making hundreds of thousands per year with a traffic island that will make no money at all” the decision that any team will make internally is obvious.\n
        \n
        That kind of poses the second question as to what, in the interim, will be cut as per budget, but that’s a sidenote. I guarantee you without change far reaching enough to societally gain a new understanding of public space and roads, when the last speed cam is dismantled you’ll find all the roads still suck ass and will not be redesigned. Once you have the change so far reaching that you can reunderstand basically every road, yeah, then you don’t need the traffic cams anymore and they can be dismantled.
        """
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    1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2322
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      +body: """
        > Meanwhile, in the real world we must be concerned with actually viable change.\n
        \n
        Real Zach Brannigan hours here on account of “It might get a lot of other people killed but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make”\n
        \n
        > You are inventing a fantasy reality to suit an anti car obsession. One I share, car reduction is good. However you’re being a tit now.\n
        \n
        What part of this is fantasy. Like where do you see the political potential for a nigh nationwide road redesign.
        """
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    0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2294
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      +body: """
        > This is the weird fantasy part I was referring to. It’s like, just nonsense. It comes off like an american attitude being ported to the UK with absolutely no adaptation whatsoever to British conditions. Our conditions are nothing like america. Getting rid of cameras and getting traffic calming measures installed instead is not particularly difficult, it’s about the same. This idea of complete and widespread reinterpretation of public space? It doesn’t make sense here.\n
        \n
        I’m german tho.\n
        \n
        > By American standards it would be considered idyllic.\n
        \n
        As such, I do not believe american standards as per roads are anything to go by\n
        \n
        > Parts of the road already have traffic calming measures.\n
        \n
        That’s not really gonna stop anybody from speeding down the remaining lane(s) because they’re still very wide. It’s good for pedestrians, probably, don’t get me wrong, doesn’t really fight the speeding problem at all.\n
        \n
        > This is very easily expanded upon with the addition of chicanes, which are in wide use (hundreds of thousands) across the country.\n
        \n
        These do\n
        \n
        > There’s no “reimagining” needed here. People don’t need to develop a new consciousness of public space.\n
        \n
        Those are very much spotwork as per slowing down cars. They work for that spot, yes. It is however absolutely not hard to accelerate a car again. This is a good idea to slow people down before a busy or a school crossing or something, the third picture especially is just going to lead to slow down / wait -&gt; mash gas pedal\n
        \n
        > We do not live in a country that is utterly obsessed with cars like america.\n
        \n
        True, but also nigh about the lowest bar to clear right after like Saudi Arabia.\n
        \n
        > There are zero political barriers to this, the only barrier is the profit/revenue barrier of the traffic camera obsessed crowd.\n
        \n
        And you accuse me of living in some fantasy reality?\n
        \n
        > In every town, in every village, in every city. Outisde every school. In every residential area. All over the country.\n
        \n
        Same, could find similar features here by looking out my old apartments window. Hell, do you one better than that, we have shit like this\n
        \n
        ![](https://hexbear.net/pictrs/image/da817aa1-0f08-452f-9f76-95587ddeb3e0.png)\n
        \n
        Sorry for the grainy pictures, didn’t wanna spend that much time on google. Now that’s a road you can’t speed on, on account of many chicanes and other built up enviroments, not just the single one and then it’s open road before and after.\n
        \n
        Doesn’t mean the rest of it isn’t incredibly car brained and hostile, and as such, transportation by foot or cycling sucks major ass.\n
        \n
        If your vision of not being carbrained is “do better than the USA”, yeah, you’re there, but that shouldn’t be the end goal
        """
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   …2
}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370
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  +slug: "Speed-camera-cut-down-for-second-time-in-Cornwall"
  +title: "Speed camera cut down for second time in Cornwall"
  +url: "https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj5g1elz57qo"
  +body: "It’s insane the lengths that some people will go to save a few seconds on their commute, while also endangering others."
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    15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
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      +body: "I mean so what’s to be done then. I agree on “redesign pretty much every street or road” but like, until then, it’s just a great big free for all?"
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    14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
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      +body: """
        > The US, for instance, doesn’t have speed cameras\n
        \n
        That’s just straight up wrong.
        """
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      +body: "Speaking from germany, 33 in a 30 wouldn’t even trip the speed cams here. Earliest infraction is basically doing 6mph over on a 30mph road, which would come at 50€ fine. We apparently also have 50 times less speed cameras and it absolutely does not stop people from fucking malding over them. They have to be designed bulletproof here now and even those still get regularly blown up. None of the points you raise change anything about it, because the core issue is people are terminally car brained"
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        date: 2024-01-07 15:15:31.0 +01:00
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    12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2030 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
      +body: "I’m not sure if you’re being serious here"
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
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        date: 2024-01-07 19:25:09.0 +01:00
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        "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
        "@Rom@hexbear.net"
        "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
        "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
      ]
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      -id: 289601
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        date: 2024-01-07 19:25:09.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 289601
    }
    11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2035 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
      +body: """
        > Why not?\n
        \n
        Because that’s hardly what can be considered a realistic solution. Again, not against it, but what, are you gonna close down like 90% of roads? Only some of them, if so, which ones, and how is stuff handled on the ones that remain open?
        """
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        date: 2024-01-07 19:42:56.0 +01:00
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        "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
        "@Rom@hexbear.net"
        "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
        "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
      ]
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        date: 2024-01-07 19:42:56.0 +01:00
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      +"title": 289649
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    10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
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      +body: """
        > just roads that “require” speed cameras.\n
        \n
        So when’s that the case or not
        """
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        date: 2024-01-07 19:58:47.0 +01:00
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    9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2092
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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      +body: "It’s a bad TL;DR but they do lay out why it’s illegal"
      +lang: "en"
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        "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
        "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
      ]
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    8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2351
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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      +body: "What’s your usual transportation method?"
      +lang: "en"
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        date: 2024-01-08 17:03:55.0 +01:00
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        "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
      ]
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        date: 2024-01-08 17:03:55.0 +01:00
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      +"title": 291985
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    7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2327
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      +body: """
        > You want people to actually slow down? Redesign the road.\n
        \n
        I’ve posed this question elsewhere in this thread and: what until then? Like what do you do until a good, what, 50 - 90% of road depending on criteria, is redesigned?
        """
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    6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2143
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      +body: """
        > Croydon council responded to FOI request stating it costs £2.5-£3.5k to install traffic islands. The cost of a speed camera installation on the other hand is £85,000 according to Bedford Council, with a £5000 annual upkeep cost.\n
        \n
        Croydon cites average cost for roughly such an action at 2,5k - 3,5k in a denial of the FOI request which means there’s pretty much no way to know how much it actually costs depending on what they calculate the average on and if you have any idea about the cost of public works that number should strike you as very, very oddly low.\n
        \n
        Wiltshire government [here](https://www.wiltshire.gov.uk/article/1281/Costs-of-highway-works) cites about 45.000k for a traffic island narrowing a road to one lane, all in all.\n
        \n
        The source you cite for the cameras, however, puts those costs for 2 cameras, so 42,500 a pop / 2500 upkeep annual, albeit with returns via fines obviously.
        """
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    5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2051
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      +body: """
        > The process and length of time it takes for either option are practically the same.\n
        \n
        Sure, but you’re arguing for like instant speed camera abolishment or destruction here, aye?\n
        \n
        > Not to mention a traffic island costs like £3k while a camera costs £85k (guess why they pick the camera despite the price).\n
        \n
        Dunno if you got to that one already but I’ve did a reply pointing out where you’re a bit off there
        """
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    4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2104
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      +body: """
        You can just say yes, you don’t have to couch this shit in a good WKUK skit.\n
        \n
        Do they do harm to the poor that are on bicycles, or walking, then?
        """
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    3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2118
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      +body: """
        > Having been to court twice for online related stuff I will absolutely couch this shit.\n
        \n
        Fair, I meant it more on “don’t do it on my accord”\n
        \n
        > I do not see how that question is doing anything but attempting some sort of gotcha or accusation that these people\n
        \n
        Your these people just seems to have some very oddly drawn lines is the heart of it. It does include poor drivers, to whom speed cameras are a problem and not that much of a solution, it does not seem to include poor people not in a car, who profit from this. My FALGSOC doesn’t have speed cameras in it - who’s would - but it’s a long way from here to there.\n
        \n
        > deserve to be fucked over instead of have real designs that don’t result in their lives being made harder. It seems like spite to me.\n
        \n
        This is running on the assumption that I think people deserve to be fucked over for speeding, and that’s the main motivation. Sure, some of them, but that’s not the kind of distinction a speed cam could make on account of how it works. I’d very much be open to them not issuing fines but other punishments - as appropiate - to not make them so classist. Loss of driving license, if you really, really fuck up in a sports car that gets impounded or such, but I’ll concede, even that is far out from today, but just to point it out,\n
        \n
        My point here is that for every one it fucks over, it helps other people not being fucked over, because it does do something against speeding. My line of reasoning for speed cams is not that it fucks people over, it’s that it helps people. You wanna focus on the first part, I’m trying to get you to see the issue is more complex than that, at least if you include people outside of cars in your consideration. They’re not a good solution, by any means, again, I assume our optimal way of solving it is quite similar. For the meantime though, the fuck else do you do? Just abandon all traffic enforcement until all the roads get fixed? So what, 20 years of being vulnerable road users being even more endangered than now?
        """
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      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1704747077 {#2114
        date: 2024-01-08 21:51:17.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 292030
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    2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2229
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      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
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      +body: """
        > A negative in the short term leads to a longterm positive.\n
        \n
        I do not want to die a martyr to the fight against traffic cams.\n
        \n
        > Also I see no other method of doing this. If you go to the council and say “I want to replace this highly profitable traffic camera making hundreds of thousands per year with a traffic island that will make no money at all” the decision that any team will make internally is obvious.\n
        \n
        That kind of poses the second question as to what, in the interim, will be cut as per budget, but that’s a sidenote. I guarantee you without change far reaching enough to societally gain a new understanding of public space and roads, when the last speed cam is dismantled you’ll find all the roads still suck ass and will not be redesigned. Once you have the change so far reaching that you can reunderstand basically every road, yeah, then you don’t need the traffic cams anymore and they can be dismantled.
        """
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        "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
        "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
        "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
      ]
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        date: 2024-01-09 17:36:19.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 293739
    }
    1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2322
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      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
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      +body: """
        > Meanwhile, in the real world we must be concerned with actually viable change.\n
        \n
        Real Zach Brannigan hours here on account of “It might get a lot of other people killed but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make”\n
        \n
        > You are inventing a fantasy reality to suit an anti car obsession. One I share, car reduction is good. However you’re being a tit now.\n
        \n
        What part of this is fantasy. Like where do you see the political potential for a nigh nationwide road redesign.
        """
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        "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
        "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
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      -id: 294286
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        date: 2024-01-09 21:59:05.0 +01:00
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      +"title": 294286
    }
    0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2294
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2290 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2333 …}
      +body: """
        > This is the weird fantasy part I was referring to. It’s like, just nonsense. It comes off like an american attitude being ported to the UK with absolutely no adaptation whatsoever to British conditions. Our conditions are nothing like america. Getting rid of cameras and getting traffic calming measures installed instead is not particularly difficult, it’s about the same. This idea of complete and widespread reinterpretation of public space? It doesn’t make sense here.\n
        \n
        I’m german tho.\n
        \n
        > By American standards it would be considered idyllic.\n
        \n
        As such, I do not believe american standards as per roads are anything to go by\n
        \n
        > Parts of the road already have traffic calming measures.\n
        \n
        That’s not really gonna stop anybody from speeding down the remaining lane(s) because they’re still very wide. It’s good for pedestrians, probably, don’t get me wrong, doesn’t really fight the speeding problem at all.\n
        \n
        > This is very easily expanded upon with the addition of chicanes, which are in wide use (hundreds of thousands) across the country.\n
        \n
        These do\n
        \n
        > There’s no “reimagining” needed here. People don’t need to develop a new consciousness of public space.\n
        \n
        Those are very much spotwork as per slowing down cars. They work for that spot, yes. It is however absolutely not hard to accelerate a car again. This is a good idea to slow people down before a busy or a school crossing or something, the third picture especially is just going to lead to slow down / wait -&gt; mash gas pedal\n
        \n
        > We do not live in a country that is utterly obsessed with cars like america.\n
        \n
        True, but also nigh about the lowest bar to clear right after like Saudi Arabia.\n
        \n
        > There are zero political barriers to this, the only barrier is the profit/revenue barrier of the traffic camera obsessed crowd.\n
        \n
        And you accuse me of living in some fantasy reality?\n
        \n
        > In every town, in every village, in every city. Outisde every school. In every residential area. All over the country.\n
        \n
        Same, could find similar features here by looking out my old apartments window. Hell, do you one better than that, we have shit like this\n
        \n
        ![](https://hexbear.net/pictrs/image/da817aa1-0f08-452f-9f76-95587ddeb3e0.png)\n
        \n
        Sorry for the grainy pictures, didn’t wanna spend that much time on google. Now that’s a road you can’t speed on, on account of many chicanes and other built up enviroments, not just the single one and then it’s open road before and after.\n
        \n
        Doesn’t mean the rest of it isn’t incredibly car brained and hostile, and as such, transportation by foot or cycling sucks major ass.\n
        \n
        If your vision of not being carbrained is “do better than the USA”, yeah, you’re there, but that shouldn’t be the end goal
        """
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    date: 2024-01-06 13:45:17.0 +01:00
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   …2
}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2549 …}
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  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2695 …}
  +slug: "Speed-camera-cut-down-for-second-time-in-Cornwall"
  +title: "Speed camera cut down for second time in Cornwall"
  +url: "https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj5g1elz57qo"
  +body: "It’s insane the lengths that some people will go to save a few seconds on their commute, while also endangering others."
  +type: "link"
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  +children: [
    15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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      +body: "I mean so what’s to be done then. I agree on “redesign pretty much every street or road” but like, until then, it’s just a great big free for all?"
      +lang: "en"
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        date: 2024-01-07 11:43:26.0 +01:00
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    14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
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      +body: """
        > The US, for instance, doesn’t have speed cameras\n
        \n
        That’s just straight up wrong.
        """
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    13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
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      +body: "Speaking from germany, 33 in a 30 wouldn’t even trip the speed cams here. Earliest infraction is basically doing 6mph over on a 30mph road, which would come at 50€ fine. We apparently also have 50 times less speed cameras and it absolutely does not stop people from fucking malding over them. They have to be designed bulletproof here now and even those still get regularly blown up. None of the points you raise change anything about it, because the core issue is people are terminally car brained"
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        "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
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    12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
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      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2030 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
      +body: "I’m not sure if you’re being serious here"
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 3
      +score: 0
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        date: 2024-01-07 19:25:09.0 +01:00
      }
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        "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
        "@Rom@hexbear.net"
        "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
        "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
      ]
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      -id: 289601
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      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1704651909 {#2019
        date: 2024-01-07 19:25:09.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 289601
    }
    11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2035 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
      +body: """
        > Why not?\n
        \n
        Because that’s hardly what can be considered a realistic solution. Again, not against it, but what, are you gonna close down like 90% of roads? Only some of them, if so, which ones, and how is stuff handled on the ones that remain open?
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
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        date: 2024-01-07 19:42:56.0 +01:00
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        "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
        "@Rom@hexbear.net"
        "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
        "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2031 …}
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      -bodyTs: "'90':26 'close':23 'consid':10 'gonna':22 'handl':41 'hard':6 'like':25 'one':36,44 'open':47 'realist':12 'remain':46 'road':28 'solut':13 'stuff':40"
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      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1704652976 {#2013
        date: 2024-01-07 19:42:56.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 289649
    }
    10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
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      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2062 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
      +body: """
        > just roads that “require” speed cameras.\n
        \n
        So when’s that the case or not
        """
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        date: 2024-01-07 19:58:47.0 +01:00
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        "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
        "@Rom@hexbear.net"
        "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
        "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
      ]
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        date: 2024-01-07 19:58:47.0 +01:00
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      +"title": 289695
    }
    9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2092
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2094 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
      +body: "It’s a bad TL;DR but they do lay out why it’s illegal"
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
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        date: 2024-01-07 20:56:29.0 +01:00
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        "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
        "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
        "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
      ]
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        date: 2024-01-07 20:56:29.0 +01:00
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    }
    8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2351
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2347 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
      +body: "What’s your usual transportation method?"
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 0
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        date: 2024-01-08 17:03:55.0 +01:00
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        "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
        "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
        "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
        "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
        "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
      ]
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        date: 2024-01-08 17:03:55.0 +01:00
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      +"title": 291985
    }
    7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2327
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      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2333 …}
      +body: """
        > You want people to actually slow down? Redesign the road.\n
        \n
        I’ve posed this question elsewhere in this thread and: what until then? Like what do you do until a good, what, 50 - 90% of road depending on criteria, is redesigned?
        """
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        date: 2024-01-08 17:07:53.0 +01:00
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        "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
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      -id: 291989
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        date: 2024-01-08 17:07:53.0 +01:00
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    6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2143
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2135 …}
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      +body: """
        > Croydon council responded to FOI request stating it costs £2.5-£3.5k to install traffic islands. The cost of a speed camera installation on the other hand is £85,000 according to Bedford Council, with a £5000 annual upkeep cost.\n
        \n
        Croydon cites average cost for roughly such an action at 2,5k - 3,5k in a denial of the FOI request which means there’s pretty much no way to know how much it actually costs depending on what they calculate the average on and if you have any idea about the cost of public works that number should strike you as very, very oddly low.\n
        \n
        Wiltshire government [here](https://www.wiltshire.gov.uk/article/1281/Costs-of-highway-works) cites about 45.000k for a traffic island narrowing a road to one lane, all in all.\n
        \n
        The source you cite for the cameras, however, puts those costs for 2 cameras, so 42,500 a pop / 2500 upkeep annual, albeit with returns via fines obviously.
        """
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        date: 2024-01-08 17:33:32.0 +01:00
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        "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
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        date: 2024-01-08 17:33:32.0 +01:00
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      +"title": 291995
    }
    5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2051
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      +body: """
        > The process and length of time it takes for either option are practically the same.\n
        \n
        Sure, but you’re arguing for like instant speed camera abolishment or destruction here, aye?\n
        \n
        > Not to mention a traffic island costs like £3k while a camera costs £85k (guess why they pick the camera despite the price).\n
        \n
        Dunno if you got to that one already but I’ve did a reply pointing out where you’re a bit off there
        """
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    4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2104
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      +body: """
        You can just say yes, you don’t have to couch this shit in a good WKUK skit.\n
        \n
        Do they do harm to the poor that are on bicycles, or walking, then?
        """
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        "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
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      -id: 292004
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    3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2118
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      +body: """
        > Having been to court twice for online related stuff I will absolutely couch this shit.\n
        \n
        Fair, I meant it more on “don’t do it on my accord”\n
        \n
        > I do not see how that question is doing anything but attempting some sort of gotcha or accusation that these people\n
        \n
        Your these people just seems to have some very oddly drawn lines is the heart of it. It does include poor drivers, to whom speed cameras are a problem and not that much of a solution, it does not seem to include poor people not in a car, who profit from this. My FALGSOC doesn’t have speed cameras in it - who’s would - but it’s a long way from here to there.\n
        \n
        > deserve to be fucked over instead of have real designs that don’t result in their lives being made harder. It seems like spite to me.\n
        \n
        This is running on the assumption that I think people deserve to be fucked over for speeding, and that’s the main motivation. Sure, some of them, but that’s not the kind of distinction a speed cam could make on account of how it works. I’d very much be open to them not issuing fines but other punishments - as appropiate - to not make them so classist. Loss of driving license, if you really, really fuck up in a sports car that gets impounded or such, but I’ll concede, even that is far out from today, but just to point it out,\n
        \n
        My point here is that for every one it fucks over, it helps other people not being fucked over, because it does do something against speeding. My line of reasoning for speed cams is not that it fucks people over, it’s that it helps people. You wanna focus on the first part, I’m trying to get you to see the issue is more complex than that, at least if you include people outside of cars in your consideration. They’re not a good solution, by any means, again, I assume our optimal way of solving it is quite similar. For the meantime though, the fuck else do you do? Just abandon all traffic enforcement until all the roads get fixed? So what, 20 years of being vulnerable road users being even more endangered than now?
        """
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      +"title": 292030
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    2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2229
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      +body: """
        > A negative in the short term leads to a longterm positive.\n
        \n
        I do not want to die a martyr to the fight against traffic cams.\n
        \n
        > Also I see no other method of doing this. If you go to the council and say “I want to replace this highly profitable traffic camera making hundreds of thousands per year with a traffic island that will make no money at all” the decision that any team will make internally is obvious.\n
        \n
        That kind of poses the second question as to what, in the interim, will be cut as per budget, but that’s a sidenote. I guarantee you without change far reaching enough to societally gain a new understanding of public space and roads, when the last speed cam is dismantled you’ll find all the roads still suck ass and will not be redesigned. Once you have the change so far reaching that you can reunderstand basically every road, yeah, then you don’t need the traffic cams anymore and they can be dismantled.
        """
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        "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
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        date: 2024-01-09 17:36:19.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 293739
    }
    1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2322
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      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
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      +body: """
        > Meanwhile, in the real world we must be concerned with actually viable change.\n
        \n
        Real Zach Brannigan hours here on account of “It might get a lot of other people killed but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make”\n
        \n
        > You are inventing a fantasy reality to suit an anti car obsession. One I share, car reduction is good. However you’re being a tit now.\n
        \n
        What part of this is fantasy. Like where do you see the political potential for a nigh nationwide road redesign.
        """
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        "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
        "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
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        date: 2024-01-09 21:59:05.0 +01:00
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    }
    0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2294
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2290 …}
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      +body: """
        > This is the weird fantasy part I was referring to. It’s like, just nonsense. It comes off like an american attitude being ported to the UK with absolutely no adaptation whatsoever to British conditions. Our conditions are nothing like america. Getting rid of cameras and getting traffic calming measures installed instead is not particularly difficult, it’s about the same. This idea of complete and widespread reinterpretation of public space? It doesn’t make sense here.\n
        \n
        I’m german tho.\n
        \n
        > By American standards it would be considered idyllic.\n
        \n
        As such, I do not believe american standards as per roads are anything to go by\n
        \n
        > Parts of the road already have traffic calming measures.\n
        \n
        That’s not really gonna stop anybody from speeding down the remaining lane(s) because they’re still very wide. It’s good for pedestrians, probably, don’t get me wrong, doesn’t really fight the speeding problem at all.\n
        \n
        > This is very easily expanded upon with the addition of chicanes, which are in wide use (hundreds of thousands) across the country.\n
        \n
        These do\n
        \n
        > There’s no “reimagining” needed here. People don’t need to develop a new consciousness of public space.\n
        \n
        Those are very much spotwork as per slowing down cars. They work for that spot, yes. It is however absolutely not hard to accelerate a car again. This is a good idea to slow people down before a busy or a school crossing or something, the third picture especially is just going to lead to slow down / wait -&gt; mash gas pedal\n
        \n
        > We do not live in a country that is utterly obsessed with cars like america.\n
        \n
        True, but also nigh about the lowest bar to clear right after like Saudi Arabia.\n
        \n
        > There are zero political barriers to this, the only barrier is the profit/revenue barrier of the traffic camera obsessed crowd.\n
        \n
        And you accuse me of living in some fantasy reality?\n
        \n
        > In every town, in every village, in every city. Outisde every school. In every residential area. All over the country.\n
        \n
        Same, could find similar features here by looking out my old apartments window. Hell, do you one better than that, we have shit like this\n
        \n
        ![](https://hexbear.net/pictrs/image/da817aa1-0f08-452f-9f76-95587ddeb3e0.png)\n
        \n
        Sorry for the grainy pictures, didn’t wanna spend that much time on google. Now that’s a road you can’t speed on, on account of many chicanes and other built up enviroments, not just the single one and then it’s open road before and after.\n
        \n
        Doesn’t mean the rest of it isn’t incredibly car brained and hostile, and as such, transportation by foot or cycling sucks major ass.\n
        \n
        If your vision of not being carbrained is “do better than the USA”, yeah, you’re there, but that shouldn’t be the end goal
        """
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  ]
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    date: 2024-01-06 13:45:17.0 +01:00
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   …2
}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2549 …}
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    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2694 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2695 …}
    +slug: "Speed-camera-cut-down-for-second-time-in-Cornwall"
    +title: "Speed camera cut down for second time in Cornwall"
    +url: "https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj5g1elz57qo"
    +body: "It’s insane the lengths that some people will go to save a few seconds on their commute, while also endangering others."
    +type: "link"
    +lang: "en"
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      date: 2024-01-11 17:32:35.0 +01:00
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    +ip: null
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    +children: [
      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363}
      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
        +body: """
          > The US, for instance, doesn’t have speed cameras\n
          \n
          That’s just straight up wrong.
          """
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2024-01-07 12:01:02.0 +01:00
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
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        +body: "Speaking from germany, 33 in a 30 wouldn’t even trip the speed cams here. Earliest infraction is basically doing 6mph over on a 30mph road, which would come at 50€ fine. We apparently also have 50 times less speed cameras and it absolutely does not stop people from fucking malding over them. They have to be designed bulletproof here now and even those still get regularly blown up. None of the points you raise change anything about it, because the core issue is people are terminally car brained"
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          "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
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        +body: "I’m not sure if you’re being serious here"
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        ]
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:25:09.0 +01:00
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      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
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        +body: """
          > Why not?\n
          \n
          Because that’s hardly what can be considered a realistic solution. Again, not against it, but what, are you gonna close down like 90% of roads? Only some of them, if so, which ones, and how is stuff handled on the ones that remain open?
          """
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1704652976 {#2013
          date: 2024-01-07 19:42:56.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 289649
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2062 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: """
          > just roads that “require” speed cameras.\n
          \n
          So when’s that the case or not
          """
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        +body: "It’s a bad TL;DR but they do lay out why it’s illegal"
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          "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
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      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2351
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        +body: "What’s your usual transportation method?"
        +lang: "en"
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          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
        ]
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      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2327
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        +body: """
          > You want people to actually slow down? Redesign the road.\n
          \n
          I’ve posed this question elsewhere in this thread and: what until then? Like what do you do until a good, what, 50 - 90% of road depending on criteria, is redesigned?
          """
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        -id: 291989
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      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2143
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        +body: """
          > Croydon council responded to FOI request stating it costs £2.5-£3.5k to install traffic islands. The cost of a speed camera installation on the other hand is £85,000 according to Bedford Council, with a £5000 annual upkeep cost.\n
          \n
          Croydon cites average cost for roughly such an action at 2,5k - 3,5k in a denial of the FOI request which means there’s pretty much no way to know how much it actually costs depending on what they calculate the average on and if you have any idea about the cost of public works that number should strike you as very, very oddly low.\n
          \n
          Wiltshire government [here](https://www.wiltshire.gov.uk/article/1281/Costs-of-highway-works) cites about 45.000k for a traffic island narrowing a road to one lane, all in all.\n
          \n
          The source you cite for the cameras, however, puts those costs for 2 cameras, so 42,500 a pop / 2500 upkeep annual, albeit with returns via fines obviously.
          """
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      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2051
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        +body: """
          > The process and length of time it takes for either option are practically the same.\n
          \n
          Sure, but you’re arguing for like instant speed camera abolishment or destruction here, aye?\n
          \n
          > Not to mention a traffic island costs like £3k while a camera costs £85k (guess why they pick the camera despite the price).\n
          \n
          Dunno if you got to that one already but I’ve did a reply pointing out where you’re a bit off there
          """
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      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2104
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        +body: """
          You can just say yes, you don’t have to couch this shit in a good WKUK skit.\n
          \n
          Do they do harm to the poor that are on bicycles, or walking, then?
          """
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        -id: 292004
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2118
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        +body: """
          > Having been to court twice for online related stuff I will absolutely couch this shit.\n
          \n
          Fair, I meant it more on “don’t do it on my accord”\n
          \n
          > I do not see how that question is doing anything but attempting some sort of gotcha or accusation that these people\n
          \n
          Your these people just seems to have some very oddly drawn lines is the heart of it. It does include poor drivers, to whom speed cameras are a problem and not that much of a solution, it does not seem to include poor people not in a car, who profit from this. My FALGSOC doesn’t have speed cameras in it - who’s would - but it’s a long way from here to there.\n
          \n
          > deserve to be fucked over instead of have real designs that don’t result in their lives being made harder. It seems like spite to me.\n
          \n
          This is running on the assumption that I think people deserve to be fucked over for speeding, and that’s the main motivation. Sure, some of them, but that’s not the kind of distinction a speed cam could make on account of how it works. I’d very much be open to them not issuing fines but other punishments - as appropiate - to not make them so classist. Loss of driving license, if you really, really fuck up in a sports car that gets impounded or such, but I’ll concede, even that is far out from today, but just to point it out,\n
          \n
          My point here is that for every one it fucks over, it helps other people not being fucked over, because it does do something against speeding. My line of reasoning for speed cams is not that it fucks people over, it’s that it helps people. You wanna focus on the first part, I’m trying to get you to see the issue is more complex than that, at least if you include people outside of cars in your consideration. They’re not a good solution, by any means, again, I assume our optimal way of solving it is quite similar. For the meantime though, the fuck else do you do? Just abandon all traffic enforcement until all the roads get fixed? So what, 20 years of being vulnerable road users being even more endangered than now?
          """
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2229
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        +body: """
          > A negative in the short term leads to a longterm positive.\n
          \n
          I do not want to die a martyr to the fight against traffic cams.\n
          \n
          > Also I see no other method of doing this. If you go to the council and say “I want to replace this highly profitable traffic camera making hundreds of thousands per year with a traffic island that will make no money at all” the decision that any team will make internally is obvious.\n
          \n
          That kind of poses the second question as to what, in the interim, will be cut as per budget, but that’s a sidenote. I guarantee you without change far reaching enough to societally gain a new understanding of public space and roads, when the last speed cam is dismantled you’ll find all the roads still suck ass and will not be redesigned. Once you have the change so far reaching that you can reunderstand basically every road, yeah, then you don’t need the traffic cams anymore and they can be dismantled.
          """
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        +"title": 293739
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2322
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        +body: """
          > Meanwhile, in the real world we must be concerned with actually viable change.\n
          \n
          Real Zach Brannigan hours here on account of “It might get a lot of other people killed but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make”\n
          \n
          > You are inventing a fantasy reality to suit an anti car obsession. One I share, car reduction is good. However you’re being a tit now.\n
          \n
          What part of this is fantasy. Like where do you see the political potential for a nigh nationwide road redesign.
          """
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          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2294
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2333 …}
        +body: """
          > This is the weird fantasy part I was referring to. It’s like, just nonsense. It comes off like an american attitude being ported to the UK with absolutely no adaptation whatsoever to British conditions. Our conditions are nothing like america. Getting rid of cameras and getting traffic calming measures installed instead is not particularly difficult, it’s about the same. This idea of complete and widespread reinterpretation of public space? It doesn’t make sense here.\n
          \n
          I’m german tho.\n
          \n
          > By American standards it would be considered idyllic.\n
          \n
          As such, I do not believe american standards as per roads are anything to go by\n
          \n
          > Parts of the road already have traffic calming measures.\n
          \n
          That’s not really gonna stop anybody from speeding down the remaining lane(s) because they’re still very wide. It’s good for pedestrians, probably, don’t get me wrong, doesn’t really fight the speeding problem at all.\n
          \n
          > This is very easily expanded upon with the addition of chicanes, which are in wide use (hundreds of thousands) across the country.\n
          \n
          These do\n
          \n
          > There’s no “reimagining” needed here. People don’t need to develop a new consciousness of public space.\n
          \n
          Those are very much spotwork as per slowing down cars. They work for that spot, yes. It is however absolutely not hard to accelerate a car again. This is a good idea to slow people down before a busy or a school crossing or something, the third picture especially is just going to lead to slow down / wait -&gt; mash gas pedal\n
          \n
          > We do not live in a country that is utterly obsessed with cars like america.\n
          \n
          True, but also nigh about the lowest bar to clear right after like Saudi Arabia.\n
          \n
          > There are zero political barriers to this, the only barrier is the profit/revenue barrier of the traffic camera obsessed crowd.\n
          \n
          And you accuse me of living in some fantasy reality?\n
          \n
          > In every town, in every village, in every city. Outisde every school. In every residential area. All over the country.\n
          \n
          Same, could find similar features here by looking out my old apartments window. Hell, do you one better than that, we have shit like this\n
          \n
          ![](https://hexbear.net/pictrs/image/da817aa1-0f08-452f-9f76-95587ddeb3e0.png)\n
          \n
          Sorry for the grainy pictures, didn’t wanna spend that much time on google. Now that’s a road you can’t speed on, on account of many chicanes and other built up enviroments, not just the single one and then it’s open road before and after.\n
          \n
          Doesn’t mean the rest of it isn’t incredibly car brained and hostile, and as such, transportation by foot or cycling sucks major ass.\n
          \n
          If your vision of not being carbrained is “do better than the USA”, yeah, you’re there, but that shouldn’t be the end goal
          """
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      date: 2024-01-06 13:45:17.0 +01:00
    }
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     …2
  }
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  +body: "I mean so what’s to be done then. I agree on “redesign pretty much every street or road” but like, until then, it’s just a great big free for all?"
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
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    +slug: "Speed-camera-cut-down-for-second-time-in-Cornwall"
    +title: "Speed camera cut down for second time in Cornwall"
    +url: "https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj5g1elz57qo"
    +body: "It’s insane the lengths that some people will go to save a few seconds on their commute, while also endangering others."
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      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363}
      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: """
          > The US, for instance, doesn’t have speed cameras\n
          \n
          That’s just straight up wrong.
          """
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
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        +body: "Speaking from germany, 33 in a 30 wouldn’t even trip the speed cams here. Earliest infraction is basically doing 6mph over on a 30mph road, which would come at 50€ fine. We apparently also have 50 times less speed cameras and it absolutely does not stop people from fucking malding over them. They have to be designed bulletproof here now and even those still get regularly blown up. None of the points you raise change anything about it, because the core issue is people are terminally car brained"
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
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        +body: "I’m not sure if you’re being serious here"
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      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
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        +body: """
          > Why not?\n
          \n
          Because that’s hardly what can be considered a realistic solution. Again, not against it, but what, are you gonna close down like 90% of roads? Only some of them, if so, which ones, and how is stuff handled on the ones that remain open?
          """
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      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
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        +body: """
          > just roads that “require” speed cameras.\n
          \n
          So when’s that the case or not
          """
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2092
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        +body: "It’s a bad TL;DR but they do lay out why it’s illegal"
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          date: 2024-01-07 20:56:29.0 +01:00
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      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2351
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
        +body: "What’s your usual transportation method?"
        +lang: "en"
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          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
          "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
        ]
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      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2327
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        +body: """
          > You want people to actually slow down? Redesign the road.\n
          \n
          I’ve posed this question elsewhere in this thread and: what until then? Like what do you do until a good, what, 50 - 90% of road depending on criteria, is redesigned?
          """
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      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2143
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        +body: """
          > Croydon council responded to FOI request stating it costs £2.5-£3.5k to install traffic islands. The cost of a speed camera installation on the other hand is £85,000 according to Bedford Council, with a £5000 annual upkeep cost.\n
          \n
          Croydon cites average cost for roughly such an action at 2,5k - 3,5k in a denial of the FOI request which means there’s pretty much no way to know how much it actually costs depending on what they calculate the average on and if you have any idea about the cost of public works that number should strike you as very, very oddly low.\n
          \n
          Wiltshire government [here](https://www.wiltshire.gov.uk/article/1281/Costs-of-highway-works) cites about 45.000k for a traffic island narrowing a road to one lane, all in all.\n
          \n
          The source you cite for the cameras, however, puts those costs for 2 cameras, so 42,500 a pop / 2500 upkeep annual, albeit with returns via fines obviously.
          """
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      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2051
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          > The process and length of time it takes for either option are practically the same.\n
          \n
          Sure, but you’re arguing for like instant speed camera abolishment or destruction here, aye?\n
          \n
          > Not to mention a traffic island costs like £3k while a camera costs £85k (guess why they pick the camera despite the price).\n
          \n
          Dunno if you got to that one already but I’ve did a reply pointing out where you’re a bit off there
          """
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      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2104
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        +body: """
          You can just say yes, you don’t have to couch this shit in a good WKUK skit.\n
          \n
          Do they do harm to the poor that are on bicycles, or walking, then?
          """
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2118
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        +body: """
          > Having been to court twice for online related stuff I will absolutely couch this shit.\n
          \n
          Fair, I meant it more on “don’t do it on my accord”\n
          \n
          > I do not see how that question is doing anything but attempting some sort of gotcha or accusation that these people\n
          \n
          Your these people just seems to have some very oddly drawn lines is the heart of it. It does include poor drivers, to whom speed cameras are a problem and not that much of a solution, it does not seem to include poor people not in a car, who profit from this. My FALGSOC doesn’t have speed cameras in it - who’s would - but it’s a long way from here to there.\n
          \n
          > deserve to be fucked over instead of have real designs that don’t result in their lives being made harder. It seems like spite to me.\n
          \n
          This is running on the assumption that I think people deserve to be fucked over for speeding, and that’s the main motivation. Sure, some of them, but that’s not the kind of distinction a speed cam could make on account of how it works. I’d very much be open to them not issuing fines but other punishments - as appropiate - to not make them so classist. Loss of driving license, if you really, really fuck up in a sports car that gets impounded or such, but I’ll concede, even that is far out from today, but just to point it out,\n
          \n
          My point here is that for every one it fucks over, it helps other people not being fucked over, because it does do something against speeding. My line of reasoning for speed cams is not that it fucks people over, it’s that it helps people. You wanna focus on the first part, I’m trying to get you to see the issue is more complex than that, at least if you include people outside of cars in your consideration. They’re not a good solution, by any means, again, I assume our optimal way of solving it is quite similar. For the meantime though, the fuck else do you do? Just abandon all traffic enforcement until all the roads get fixed? So what, 20 years of being vulnerable road users being even more endangered than now?
          """
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2229
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          > A negative in the short term leads to a longterm positive.\n
          \n
          I do not want to die a martyr to the fight against traffic cams.\n
          \n
          > Also I see no other method of doing this. If you go to the council and say “I want to replace this highly profitable traffic camera making hundreds of thousands per year with a traffic island that will make no money at all” the decision that any team will make internally is obvious.\n
          \n
          That kind of poses the second question as to what, in the interim, will be cut as per budget, but that’s a sidenote. I guarantee you without change far reaching enough to societally gain a new understanding of public space and roads, when the last speed cam is dismantled you’ll find all the roads still suck ass and will not be redesigned. Once you have the change so far reaching that you can reunderstand basically every road, yeah, then you don’t need the traffic cams anymore and they can be dismantled.
          """
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2322
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          > Meanwhile, in the real world we must be concerned with actually viable change.\n
          \n
          Real Zach Brannigan hours here on account of “It might get a lot of other people killed but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make”\n
          \n
          > You are inventing a fantasy reality to suit an anti car obsession. One I share, car reduction is good. However you’re being a tit now.\n
          \n
          What part of this is fantasy. Like where do you see the political potential for a nigh nationwide road redesign.
          """
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2294
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        +body: """
          > This is the weird fantasy part I was referring to. It’s like, just nonsense. It comes off like an american attitude being ported to the UK with absolutely no adaptation whatsoever to British conditions. Our conditions are nothing like america. Getting rid of cameras and getting traffic calming measures installed instead is not particularly difficult, it’s about the same. This idea of complete and widespread reinterpretation of public space? It doesn’t make sense here.\n
          \n
          I’m german tho.\n
          \n
          > By American standards it would be considered idyllic.\n
          \n
          As such, I do not believe american standards as per roads are anything to go by\n
          \n
          > Parts of the road already have traffic calming measures.\n
          \n
          That’s not really gonna stop anybody from speeding down the remaining lane(s) because they’re still very wide. It’s good for pedestrians, probably, don’t get me wrong, doesn’t really fight the speeding problem at all.\n
          \n
          > This is very easily expanded upon with the addition of chicanes, which are in wide use (hundreds of thousands) across the country.\n
          \n
          These do\n
          \n
          > There’s no “reimagining” needed here. People don’t need to develop a new consciousness of public space.\n
          \n
          Those are very much spotwork as per slowing down cars. They work for that spot, yes. It is however absolutely not hard to accelerate a car again. This is a good idea to slow people down before a busy or a school crossing or something, the third picture especially is just going to lead to slow down / wait -&gt; mash gas pedal\n
          \n
          > We do not live in a country that is utterly obsessed with cars like america.\n
          \n
          True, but also nigh about the lowest bar to clear right after like Saudi Arabia.\n
          \n
          > There are zero political barriers to this, the only barrier is the profit/revenue barrier of the traffic camera obsessed crowd.\n
          \n
          And you accuse me of living in some fantasy reality?\n
          \n
          > In every town, in every village, in every city. Outisde every school. In every residential area. All over the country.\n
          \n
          Same, could find similar features here by looking out my old apartments window. Hell, do you one better than that, we have shit like this\n
          \n
          ![](https://hexbear.net/pictrs/image/da817aa1-0f08-452f-9f76-95587ddeb3e0.png)\n
          \n
          Sorry for the grainy pictures, didn’t wanna spend that much time on google. Now that’s a road you can’t speed on, on account of many chicanes and other built up enviroments, not just the single one and then it’s open road before and after.\n
          \n
          Doesn’t mean the rest of it isn’t incredibly car brained and hostile, and as such, transportation by foot or cycling sucks major ass.\n
          \n
          If your vision of not being carbrained is “do better than the USA”, yeah, you’re there, but that shouldn’t be the end goal
          """
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      date: 2024-01-06 13:45:17.0 +01:00
    }
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     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
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  +body: "I mean so what’s to be done then. I agree on “redesign pretty much every street or road” but like, until then, it’s just a great big free for all?"
  +lang: "en"
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
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    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2695 …}
    +slug: "Speed-camera-cut-down-for-second-time-in-Cornwall"
    +title: "Speed camera cut down for second time in Cornwall"
    +url: "https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj5g1elz57qo"
    +body: "It’s insane the lengths that some people will go to save a few seconds on their commute, while also endangering others."
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      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363}
      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
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        +body: """
          > The US, for instance, doesn’t have speed cameras\n
          \n
          That’s just straight up wrong.
          """
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        +body: "Speaking from germany, 33 in a 30 wouldn’t even trip the speed cams here. Earliest infraction is basically doing 6mph over on a 30mph road, which would come at 50€ fine. We apparently also have 50 times less speed cameras and it absolutely does not stop people from fucking malding over them. They have to be designed bulletproof here now and even those still get regularly blown up. None of the points you raise change anything about it, because the core issue is people are terminally car brained"
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        +body: "I’m not sure if you’re being serious here"
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        +body: """
          > Why not?\n
          \n
          Because that’s hardly what can be considered a realistic solution. Again, not against it, but what, are you gonna close down like 90% of roads? Only some of them, if so, which ones, and how is stuff handled on the ones that remain open?
          """
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        +body: """
          > just roads that “require” speed cameras.\n
          \n
          So when’s that the case or not
          """
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2092
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        +body: "It’s a bad TL;DR but they do lay out why it’s illegal"
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      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2351
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        +body: "What’s your usual transportation method?"
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          date: 2024-01-08 17:03:55.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 291985
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        +body: """
          > You want people to actually slow down? Redesign the road.\n
          \n
          I’ve posed this question elsewhere in this thread and: what until then? Like what do you do until a good, what, 50 - 90% of road depending on criteria, is redesigned?
          """
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        +body: """
          > Croydon council responded to FOI request stating it costs £2.5-£3.5k to install traffic islands. The cost of a speed camera installation on the other hand is £85,000 according to Bedford Council, with a £5000 annual upkeep cost.\n
          \n
          Croydon cites average cost for roughly such an action at 2,5k - 3,5k in a denial of the FOI request which means there’s pretty much no way to know how much it actually costs depending on what they calculate the average on and if you have any idea about the cost of public works that number should strike you as very, very oddly low.\n
          \n
          Wiltshire government [here](https://www.wiltshire.gov.uk/article/1281/Costs-of-highway-works) cites about 45.000k for a traffic island narrowing a road to one lane, all in all.\n
          \n
          The source you cite for the cameras, however, puts those costs for 2 cameras, so 42,500 a pop / 2500 upkeep annual, albeit with returns via fines obviously.
          """
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          > The process and length of time it takes for either option are practically the same.\n
          \n
          Sure, but you’re arguing for like instant speed camera abolishment or destruction here, aye?\n
          \n
          > Not to mention a traffic island costs like £3k while a camera costs £85k (guess why they pick the camera despite the price).\n
          \n
          Dunno if you got to that one already but I’ve did a reply pointing out where you’re a bit off there
          """
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          You can just say yes, you don’t have to couch this shit in a good WKUK skit.\n
          \n
          Do they do harm to the poor that are on bicycles, or walking, then?
          """
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2118
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        +body: """
          > Having been to court twice for online related stuff I will absolutely couch this shit.\n
          \n
          Fair, I meant it more on “don’t do it on my accord”\n
          \n
          > I do not see how that question is doing anything but attempting some sort of gotcha or accusation that these people\n
          \n
          Your these people just seems to have some very oddly drawn lines is the heart of it. It does include poor drivers, to whom speed cameras are a problem and not that much of a solution, it does not seem to include poor people not in a car, who profit from this. My FALGSOC doesn’t have speed cameras in it - who’s would - but it’s a long way from here to there.\n
          \n
          > deserve to be fucked over instead of have real designs that don’t result in their lives being made harder. It seems like spite to me.\n
          \n
          This is running on the assumption that I think people deserve to be fucked over for speeding, and that’s the main motivation. Sure, some of them, but that’s not the kind of distinction a speed cam could make on account of how it works. I’d very much be open to them not issuing fines but other punishments - as appropiate - to not make them so classist. Loss of driving license, if you really, really fuck up in a sports car that gets impounded or such, but I’ll concede, even that is far out from today, but just to point it out,\n
          \n
          My point here is that for every one it fucks over, it helps other people not being fucked over, because it does do something against speeding. My line of reasoning for speed cams is not that it fucks people over, it’s that it helps people. You wanna focus on the first part, I’m trying to get you to see the issue is more complex than that, at least if you include people outside of cars in your consideration. They’re not a good solution, by any means, again, I assume our optimal way of solving it is quite similar. For the meantime though, the fuck else do you do? Just abandon all traffic enforcement until all the roads get fixed? So what, 20 years of being vulnerable road users being even more endangered than now?
          """
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          > A negative in the short term leads to a longterm positive.\n
          \n
          I do not want to die a martyr to the fight against traffic cams.\n
          \n
          > Also I see no other method of doing this. If you go to the council and say “I want to replace this highly profitable traffic camera making hundreds of thousands per year with a traffic island that will make no money at all” the decision that any team will make internally is obvious.\n
          \n
          That kind of poses the second question as to what, in the interim, will be cut as per budget, but that’s a sidenote. I guarantee you without change far reaching enough to societally gain a new understanding of public space and roads, when the last speed cam is dismantled you’ll find all the roads still suck ass and will not be redesigned. Once you have the change so far reaching that you can reunderstand basically every road, yeah, then you don’t need the traffic cams anymore and they can be dismantled.
          """
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2322
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          > Meanwhile, in the real world we must be concerned with actually viable change.\n
          \n
          Real Zach Brannigan hours here on account of “It might get a lot of other people killed but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make”\n
          \n
          > You are inventing a fantasy reality to suit an anti car obsession. One I share, car reduction is good. However you’re being a tit now.\n
          \n
          What part of this is fantasy. Like where do you see the political potential for a nigh nationwide road redesign.
          """
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2294
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        +body: """
          > This is the weird fantasy part I was referring to. It’s like, just nonsense. It comes off like an american attitude being ported to the UK with absolutely no adaptation whatsoever to British conditions. Our conditions are nothing like america. Getting rid of cameras and getting traffic calming measures installed instead is not particularly difficult, it’s about the same. This idea of complete and widespread reinterpretation of public space? It doesn’t make sense here.\n
          \n
          I’m german tho.\n
          \n
          > By American standards it would be considered idyllic.\n
          \n
          As such, I do not believe american standards as per roads are anything to go by\n
          \n
          > Parts of the road already have traffic calming measures.\n
          \n
          That’s not really gonna stop anybody from speeding down the remaining lane(s) because they’re still very wide. It’s good for pedestrians, probably, don’t get me wrong, doesn’t really fight the speeding problem at all.\n
          \n
          > This is very easily expanded upon with the addition of chicanes, which are in wide use (hundreds of thousands) across the country.\n
          \n
          These do\n
          \n
          > There’s no “reimagining” needed here. People don’t need to develop a new consciousness of public space.\n
          \n
          Those are very much spotwork as per slowing down cars. They work for that spot, yes. It is however absolutely not hard to accelerate a car again. This is a good idea to slow people down before a busy or a school crossing or something, the third picture especially is just going to lead to slow down / wait -&gt; mash gas pedal\n
          \n
          > We do not live in a country that is utterly obsessed with cars like america.\n
          \n
          True, but also nigh about the lowest bar to clear right after like Saudi Arabia.\n
          \n
          > There are zero political barriers to this, the only barrier is the profit/revenue barrier of the traffic camera obsessed crowd.\n
          \n
          And you accuse me of living in some fantasy reality?\n
          \n
          > In every town, in every village, in every city. Outisde every school. In every residential area. All over the country.\n
          \n
          Same, could find similar features here by looking out my old apartments window. Hell, do you one better than that, we have shit like this\n
          \n
          ![](https://hexbear.net/pictrs/image/da817aa1-0f08-452f-9f76-95587ddeb3e0.png)\n
          \n
          Sorry for the grainy pictures, didn’t wanna spend that much time on google. Now that’s a road you can’t speed on, on account of many chicanes and other built up enviroments, not just the single one and then it’s open road before and after.\n
          \n
          Doesn’t mean the rest of it isn’t incredibly car brained and hostile, and as such, transportation by foot or cycling sucks major ass.\n
          \n
          If your vision of not being carbrained is “do better than the USA”, yeah, you’re there, but that shouldn’t be the end goal
          """
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    ]
    -id: 27607
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      date: 2024-01-06 13:45:17.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
  +body: "I mean so what’s to be done then. I agree on “redesign pretty much every street or road” but like, until then, it’s just a great big free for all?"
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
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    "@Rom@hexbear.net"
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2694 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2695 …}
    +slug: "Speed-camera-cut-down-for-second-time-in-Cornwall"
    +title: "Speed camera cut down for second time in Cornwall"
    +url: "https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj5g1elz57qo"
    +body: "It’s insane the lengths that some people will go to save a few seconds on their commute, while also endangering others."
    +type: "link"
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    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2714 …}
    +children: [
      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: "I mean so what’s to be done then. I agree on “redesign pretty much every street or road” but like, until then, it’s just a great big free for all?"
        +lang: "en"
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910}
      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "Speaking from germany, 33 in a 30 wouldn’t even trip the speed cams here. Earliest infraction is basically doing 6mph over on a 30mph road, which would come at 50€ fine. We apparently also have 50 times less speed cameras and it absolutely does not stop people from fucking malding over them. They have to be designed bulletproof here now and even those still get regularly blown up. None of the points you raise change anything about it, because the core issue is people are terminally car brained"
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          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
          "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Saff@lemmy.ml"
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2030 …}
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        +body: "I’m not sure if you’re being serious here"
        +lang: "en"
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          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
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        -id: 289601
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:25:09.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 289601
      }
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2035 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: """
          > Why not?\n
          \n
          Because that’s hardly what can be considered a realistic solution. Again, not against it, but what, are you gonna close down like 90% of roads? Only some of them, if so, which ones, and how is stuff handled on the ones that remain open?
          """
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2031 …}
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        -id: 289649
        -bodyTs: "'90':26 'close':23 'consid':10 'gonna':22 'handl':41 'hard':6 'like':25 'one':36,44 'open':47 'realist':12 'remain':46 'road':28 'solut':13 'stuff':40"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1704652976 {#2013
          date: 2024-01-07 19:42:56.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 289649
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
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        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2062 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: """
          > just roads that “require” speed cameras.\n
          \n
          So when’s that the case or not
          """
        +lang: "en"
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
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        -id: 289695
        -bodyTs: "'camera':6 'case':12 'requir':4 'road':2 'speed':5"
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:58:47.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 289695
      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2092
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2094 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
        +body: "It’s a bad TL;DR but they do lay out why it’s illegal"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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        +lastActive: DateTime @1704657389 {#2090
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          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
          "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2241 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2130 …}
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        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2132 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2040 …}
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        -id: 289800
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          date: 2024-01-07 20:56:29.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 289800
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2351
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2347 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
        +body: "What’s your usual transportation method?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2024-01-08 17:03:55.0 +01:00
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          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
          "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2332 …}
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          date: 2024-01-08 17:03:55.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 291985
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2327
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        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
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        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2329 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2333 …}
        +body: """
          > You want people to actually slow down? Redesign the road.\n
          \n
          I’ve posed this question elsewhere in this thread and: what until then? Like what do you do until a good, what, 50 - 90% of road depending on criteria, is redesigned?
          """
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2323 …}
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        -id: 291989
        -bodyTs: "'50':33 '90':34 'actual':5 'criteria':39 'depend':37 'elsewher':16 'good':31 'like':24 'peopl':3 'pose':13 'question':15 'redesign':8,41 'road':10,36 'slow':6 'thread':19 've':12 'want':2"
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        }
        +"title": 291989
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2143
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        +body: """
          > Croydon council responded to FOI request stating it costs £2.5-£3.5k to install traffic islands. The cost of a speed camera installation on the other hand is £85,000 according to Bedford Council, with a £5000 annual upkeep cost.\n
          \n
          Croydon cites average cost for roughly such an action at 2,5k - 3,5k in a denial of the FOI request which means there’s pretty much no way to know how much it actually costs depending on what they calculate the average on and if you have any idea about the cost of public works that number should strike you as very, very oddly low.\n
          \n
          Wiltshire government [here](https://www.wiltshire.gov.uk/article/1281/Costs-of-highway-works) cites about 45.000k for a traffic island narrowing a road to one lane, all in all.\n
          \n
          The source you cite for the cameras, however, puts those costs for 2 cameras, so 42,500 a pop / 2500 upkeep annual, albeit with returns via fines obviously.
          """
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      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2051
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          > The process and length of time it takes for either option are practically the same.\n
          \n
          Sure, but you’re arguing for like instant speed camera abolishment or destruction here, aye?\n
          \n
          > Not to mention a traffic island costs like £3k while a camera costs £85k (guess why they pick the camera despite the price).\n
          \n
          Dunno if you got to that one already but I’ve did a reply pointing out where you’re a bit off there
          """
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          You can just say yes, you don’t have to couch this shit in a good WKUK skit.\n
          \n
          Do they do harm to the poor that are on bicycles, or walking, then?
          """
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2118
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        +body: """
          > Having been to court twice for online related stuff I will absolutely couch this shit.\n
          \n
          Fair, I meant it more on “don’t do it on my accord”\n
          \n
          > I do not see how that question is doing anything but attempting some sort of gotcha or accusation that these people\n
          \n
          Your these people just seems to have some very oddly drawn lines is the heart of it. It does include poor drivers, to whom speed cameras are a problem and not that much of a solution, it does not seem to include poor people not in a car, who profit from this. My FALGSOC doesn’t have speed cameras in it - who’s would - but it’s a long way from here to there.\n
          \n
          > deserve to be fucked over instead of have real designs that don’t result in their lives being made harder. It seems like spite to me.\n
          \n
          This is running on the assumption that I think people deserve to be fucked over for speeding, and that’s the main motivation. Sure, some of them, but that’s not the kind of distinction a speed cam could make on account of how it works. I’d very much be open to them not issuing fines but other punishments - as appropiate - to not make them so classist. Loss of driving license, if you really, really fuck up in a sports car that gets impounded or such, but I’ll concede, even that is far out from today, but just to point it out,\n
          \n
          My point here is that for every one it fucks over, it helps other people not being fucked over, because it does do something against speeding. My line of reasoning for speed cams is not that it fucks people over, it’s that it helps people. You wanna focus on the first part, I’m trying to get you to see the issue is more complex than that, at least if you include people outside of cars in your consideration. They’re not a good solution, by any means, again, I assume our optimal way of solving it is quite similar. For the meantime though, the fuck else do you do? Just abandon all traffic enforcement until all the roads get fixed? So what, 20 years of being vulnerable road users being even more endangered than now?
          """
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2229
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          > A negative in the short term leads to a longterm positive.\n
          \n
          I do not want to die a martyr to the fight against traffic cams.\n
          \n
          > Also I see no other method of doing this. If you go to the council and say “I want to replace this highly profitable traffic camera making hundreds of thousands per year with a traffic island that will make no money at all” the decision that any team will make internally is obvious.\n
          \n
          That kind of poses the second question as to what, in the interim, will be cut as per budget, but that’s a sidenote. I guarantee you without change far reaching enough to societally gain a new understanding of public space and roads, when the last speed cam is dismantled you’ll find all the roads still suck ass and will not be redesigned. Once you have the change so far reaching that you can reunderstand basically every road, yeah, then you don’t need the traffic cams anymore and they can be dismantled.
          """
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2322
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          > Meanwhile, in the real world we must be concerned with actually viable change.\n
          \n
          Real Zach Brannigan hours here on account of “It might get a lot of other people killed but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make”\n
          \n
          > You are inventing a fantasy reality to suit an anti car obsession. One I share, car reduction is good. However you’re being a tit now.\n
          \n
          What part of this is fantasy. Like where do you see the political potential for a nigh nationwide road redesign.
          """
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2294
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        +body: """
          > This is the weird fantasy part I was referring to. It’s like, just nonsense. It comes off like an american attitude being ported to the UK with absolutely no adaptation whatsoever to British conditions. Our conditions are nothing like america. Getting rid of cameras and getting traffic calming measures installed instead is not particularly difficult, it’s about the same. This idea of complete and widespread reinterpretation of public space? It doesn’t make sense here.\n
          \n
          I’m german tho.\n
          \n
          > By American standards it would be considered idyllic.\n
          \n
          As such, I do not believe american standards as per roads are anything to go by\n
          \n
          > Parts of the road already have traffic calming measures.\n
          \n
          That’s not really gonna stop anybody from speeding down the remaining lane(s) because they’re still very wide. It’s good for pedestrians, probably, don’t get me wrong, doesn’t really fight the speeding problem at all.\n
          \n
          > This is very easily expanded upon with the addition of chicanes, which are in wide use (hundreds of thousands) across the country.\n
          \n
          These do\n
          \n
          > There’s no “reimagining” needed here. People don’t need to develop a new consciousness of public space.\n
          \n
          Those are very much spotwork as per slowing down cars. They work for that spot, yes. It is however absolutely not hard to accelerate a car again. This is a good idea to slow people down before a busy or a school crossing or something, the third picture especially is just going to lead to slow down / wait -&gt; mash gas pedal\n
          \n
          > We do not live in a country that is utterly obsessed with cars like america.\n
          \n
          True, but also nigh about the lowest bar to clear right after like Saudi Arabia.\n
          \n
          > There are zero political barriers to this, the only barrier is the profit/revenue barrier of the traffic camera obsessed crowd.\n
          \n
          And you accuse me of living in some fantasy reality?\n
          \n
          > In every town, in every village, in every city. Outisde every school. In every residential area. All over the country.\n
          \n
          Same, could find similar features here by looking out my old apartments window. Hell, do you one better than that, we have shit like this\n
          \n
          ![](https://hexbear.net/pictrs/image/da817aa1-0f08-452f-9f76-95587ddeb3e0.png)\n
          \n
          Sorry for the grainy pictures, didn’t wanna spend that much time on google. Now that’s a road you can’t speed on, on account of many chicanes and other built up enviroments, not just the single one and then it’s open road before and after.\n
          \n
          Doesn’t mean the rest of it isn’t incredibly car brained and hostile, and as such, transportation by foot or cycling sucks major ass.\n
          \n
          If your vision of not being carbrained is “do better than the USA”, yeah, you’re there, but that shouldn’t be the end goal
          """
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          date: 2024-01-11 17:32:35.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 299279
      }
    ]
    -id: 27607
    -titleTs: "'camera':2 'cornwal':9 'cut':3 'second':6 'speed':1 'time':7"
    -bodyTs: "'also':20 'commut':18 'endang':21 'go':10 'insan':3 'length':5 'other':22 'peopl':8 'save':12 'second':15"
    +cross: false
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      date: 2024-01-06 13:45:17.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
  +body: """
    > The US, for instance, doesn’t have speed cameras\n
    \n
    That’s just straight up wrong.
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
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    date: 2024-01-07 12:01:02.0 +01:00
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    "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
    "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1708 …}
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    date: 2024-01-07 12:01:02.0 +01:00
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  +"title": 288397
}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2549 …}
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    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2694 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2695 …}
    +slug: "Speed-camera-cut-down-for-second-time-in-Cornwall"
    +title: "Speed camera cut down for second time in Cornwall"
    +url: "https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj5g1elz57qo"
    +body: "It’s insane the lengths that some people will go to save a few seconds on their commute, while also endangering others."
    +type: "link"
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      date: 2024-01-11 17:32:35.0 +01:00
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    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2712 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2714 …}
    +children: [
      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: "I mean so what’s to be done then. I agree on “redesign pretty much every street or road” but like, until then, it’s just a great big free for all?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
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        -id: 288370
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          date: 2024-01-07 11:43:26.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 288370
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910}
      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2393 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
        +body: "Speaking from germany, 33 in a 30 wouldn’t even trip the speed cams here. Earliest infraction is basically doing 6mph over on a 30mph road, which would come at 50€ fine. We apparently also have 50 times less speed cameras and it absolutely does not stop people from fucking malding over them. They have to be designed bulletproof here now and even those still get regularly blown up. None of the points you raise change anything about it, because the core issue is people are terminally car brained"
        +lang: "en"
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
          "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Saff@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1384 …}
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        -bodyTs: "'30':7 '30mph':25 '33':4 '50':31,37 '6mph':21 'absolut':44 'also':35 'anyth':77 'appar':34 'basic':19 'blown':68 'brain':89 'bulletproof':59 'cam':14 'camera':41 'car':88 'chang':76 'come':29 'core':82 'design':58 'earliest':16 'even':10,63 'fine':32 'fuck':50 'germani':3 'get':66 'infract':17 'issu':83 'less':39 'mald':51 'none':70 'peopl':48,85 'point':73 'rais':75 'regular':67 'road':26 'speak':1 'speed':13,40 'still':65 'stop':47 'termin':87 'time':38 'trip':11 'would':28 'wouldn':8"
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          date: 2024-01-07 15:15:31.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 288725
      }
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2030 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: "I’m not sure if you’re being serious here"
        +lang: "en"
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        +score: 0
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:25:09.0 +01:00
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2032 …}
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        -id: 289601
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:25:09.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 289601
      }
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2035 …}
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        +body: """
          > Why not?\n
          \n
          Because that’s hardly what can be considered a realistic solution. Again, not against it, but what, are you gonna close down like 90% of roads? Only some of them, if so, which ones, and how is stuff handled on the ones that remain open?
          """
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:42:56.0 +01:00
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2031 …}
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        -id: 289649
        -bodyTs: "'90':26 'close':23 'consid':10 'gonna':22 'handl':41 'hard':6 'like':25 'one':36,44 'open':47 'realist':12 'remain':46 'road':28 'solut':13 'stuff':40"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1704652976 {#2013
          date: 2024-01-07 19:42:56.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 289649
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2062 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: """
          > just roads that “require” speed cameras.\n
          \n
          So when’s that the case or not
          """
        +lang: "en"
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2081 …}
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        -id: 289695
        -bodyTs: "'camera':6 'case':12 'requir':4 'road':2 'speed':5"
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:58:47.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 289695
      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2092
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2094 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
        +body: "It’s a bad TL;DR but they do lay out why it’s illegal"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1704657389 {#2090
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
          "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2241 …}
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        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2040 …}
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        -id: 289800
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          date: 2024-01-07 20:56:29.0 +01:00
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      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2351
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2347 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
        +body: "What’s your usual transportation method?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2024-01-08 17:03:55.0 +01:00
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
          "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2332 …}
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          date: 2024-01-08 17:03:55.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 291985
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2327
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2329 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2333 …}
        +body: """
          > You want people to actually slow down? Redesign the road.\n
          \n
          I’ve posed this question elsewhere in this thread and: what until then? Like what do you do until a good, what, 50 - 90% of road depending on criteria, is redesigned?
          """
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2024-01-08 17:07:53.0 +01:00
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
        ]
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        -id: 291989
        -bodyTs: "'50':33 '90':34 'actual':5 'criteria':39 'depend':37 'elsewher':16 'good':31 'like':24 'peopl':3 'pose':13 'question':15 'redesign':8,41 'road':10,36 'slow':6 'thread':19 've':12 'want':2"
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        +"title": 291989
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2143
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2135 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2333 …}
        +body: """
          > Croydon council responded to FOI request stating it costs £2.5-£3.5k to install traffic islands. The cost of a speed camera installation on the other hand is £85,000 according to Bedford Council, with a £5000 annual upkeep cost.\n
          \n
          Croydon cites average cost for roughly such an action at 2,5k - 3,5k in a denial of the FOI request which means there’s pretty much no way to know how much it actually costs depending on what they calculate the average on and if you have any idea about the cost of public works that number should strike you as very, very oddly low.\n
          \n
          Wiltshire government [here](https://www.wiltshire.gov.uk/article/1281/Costs-of-highway-works) cites about 45.000k for a traffic island narrowing a road to one lane, all in all.\n
          \n
          The source you cite for the cameras, however, puts those costs for 2 cameras, so 42,500 a pop / 2500 upkeep annual, albeit with returns via fines obviously.
          """
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          > The process and length of time it takes for either option are practically the same.\n
          \n
          Sure, but you’re arguing for like instant speed camera abolishment or destruction here, aye?\n
          \n
          > Not to mention a traffic island costs like £3k while a camera costs £85k (guess why they pick the camera despite the price).\n
          \n
          Dunno if you got to that one already but I’ve did a reply pointing out where you’re a bit off there
          """
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          You can just say yes, you don’t have to couch this shit in a good WKUK skit.\n
          \n
          Do they do harm to the poor that are on bicycles, or walking, then?
          """
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2118
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        +body: """
          > Having been to court twice for online related stuff I will absolutely couch this shit.\n
          \n
          Fair, I meant it more on “don’t do it on my accord”\n
          \n
          > I do not see how that question is doing anything but attempting some sort of gotcha or accusation that these people\n
          \n
          Your these people just seems to have some very oddly drawn lines is the heart of it. It does include poor drivers, to whom speed cameras are a problem and not that much of a solution, it does not seem to include poor people not in a car, who profit from this. My FALGSOC doesn’t have speed cameras in it - who’s would - but it’s a long way from here to there.\n
          \n
          > deserve to be fucked over instead of have real designs that don’t result in their lives being made harder. It seems like spite to me.\n
          \n
          This is running on the assumption that I think people deserve to be fucked over for speeding, and that’s the main motivation. Sure, some of them, but that’s not the kind of distinction a speed cam could make on account of how it works. I’d very much be open to them not issuing fines but other punishments - as appropiate - to not make them so classist. Loss of driving license, if you really, really fuck up in a sports car that gets impounded or such, but I’ll concede, even that is far out from today, but just to point it out,\n
          \n
          My point here is that for every one it fucks over, it helps other people not being fucked over, because it does do something against speeding. My line of reasoning for speed cams is not that it fucks people over, it’s that it helps people. You wanna focus on the first part, I’m trying to get you to see the issue is more complex than that, at least if you include people outside of cars in your consideration. They’re not a good solution, by any means, again, I assume our optimal way of solving it is quite similar. For the meantime though, the fuck else do you do? Just abandon all traffic enforcement until all the roads get fixed? So what, 20 years of being vulnerable road users being even more endangered than now?
          """
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          > A negative in the short term leads to a longterm positive.\n
          \n
          I do not want to die a martyr to the fight against traffic cams.\n
          \n
          > Also I see no other method of doing this. If you go to the council and say “I want to replace this highly profitable traffic camera making hundreds of thousands per year with a traffic island that will make no money at all” the decision that any team will make internally is obvious.\n
          \n
          That kind of poses the second question as to what, in the interim, will be cut as per budget, but that’s a sidenote. I guarantee you without change far reaching enough to societally gain a new understanding of public space and roads, when the last speed cam is dismantled you’ll find all the roads still suck ass and will not be redesigned. Once you have the change so far reaching that you can reunderstand basically every road, yeah, then you don’t need the traffic cams anymore and they can be dismantled.
          """
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2322
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          > Meanwhile, in the real world we must be concerned with actually viable change.\n
          \n
          Real Zach Brannigan hours here on account of “It might get a lot of other people killed but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make”\n
          \n
          > You are inventing a fantasy reality to suit an anti car obsession. One I share, car reduction is good. However you’re being a tit now.\n
          \n
          What part of this is fantasy. Like where do you see the political potential for a nigh nationwide road redesign.
          """
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2294
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          > This is the weird fantasy part I was referring to. It’s like, just nonsense. It comes off like an american attitude being ported to the UK with absolutely no adaptation whatsoever to British conditions. Our conditions are nothing like america. Getting rid of cameras and getting traffic calming measures installed instead is not particularly difficult, it’s about the same. This idea of complete and widespread reinterpretation of public space? It doesn’t make sense here.\n
          \n
          I’m german tho.\n
          \n
          > By American standards it would be considered idyllic.\n
          \n
          As such, I do not believe american standards as per roads are anything to go by\n
          \n
          > Parts of the road already have traffic calming measures.\n
          \n
          That’s not really gonna stop anybody from speeding down the remaining lane(s) because they’re still very wide. It’s good for pedestrians, probably, don’t get me wrong, doesn’t really fight the speeding problem at all.\n
          \n
          > This is very easily expanded upon with the addition of chicanes, which are in wide use (hundreds of thousands) across the country.\n
          \n
          These do\n
          \n
          > There’s no “reimagining” needed here. People don’t need to develop a new consciousness of public space.\n
          \n
          Those are very much spotwork as per slowing down cars. They work for that spot, yes. It is however absolutely not hard to accelerate a car again. This is a good idea to slow people down before a busy or a school crossing or something, the third picture especially is just going to lead to slow down / wait -&gt; mash gas pedal\n
          \n
          > We do not live in a country that is utterly obsessed with cars like america.\n
          \n
          True, but also nigh about the lowest bar to clear right after like Saudi Arabia.\n
          \n
          > There are zero political barriers to this, the only barrier is the profit/revenue barrier of the traffic camera obsessed crowd.\n
          \n
          And you accuse me of living in some fantasy reality?\n
          \n
          > In every town, in every village, in every city. Outisde every school. In every residential area. All over the country.\n
          \n
          Same, could find similar features here by looking out my old apartments window. Hell, do you one better than that, we have shit like this\n
          \n
          ![](https://hexbear.net/pictrs/image/da817aa1-0f08-452f-9f76-95587ddeb3e0.png)\n
          \n
          Sorry for the grainy pictures, didn’t wanna spend that much time on google. Now that’s a road you can’t speed on, on account of many chicanes and other built up enviroments, not just the single one and then it’s open road before and after.\n
          \n
          Doesn’t mean the rest of it isn’t incredibly car brained and hostile, and as such, transportation by foot or cycling sucks major ass.\n
          \n
          If your vision of not being carbrained is “do better than the USA”, yeah, you’re there, but that shouldn’t be the end goal
          """
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          date: 2024-01-11 17:32:35.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 299279
      }
    ]
    -id: 27607
    -titleTs: "'camera':2 'cornwal':9 'cut':3 'second':6 'speed':1 'time':7"
    -bodyTs: "'also':20 'commut':18 'endang':21 'go':10 'insan':3 'length':5 'other':22 'peopl':8 'save':12 'second':15"
    +cross: false
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      date: 2024-01-06 13:45:17.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
  +body: """
    > The US, for instance, doesn’t have speed cameras\n
    \n
    That’s just straight up wrong.
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
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    date: 2024-01-07 12:01:02.0 +01:00
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    "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
    "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1708 …}
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    date: 2024-01-07 12:01:02.0 +01:00
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  +"title": 288397
}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2549 …}
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    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2694 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2695 …}
    +slug: "Speed-camera-cut-down-for-second-time-in-Cornwall"
    +title: "Speed camera cut down for second time in Cornwall"
    +url: "https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj5g1elz57qo"
    +body: "It’s insane the lengths that some people will go to save a few seconds on their commute, while also endangering others."
    +type: "link"
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      date: 2024-01-11 17:32:35.0 +01:00
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    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2712 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2714 …}
    +children: [
      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: "I mean so what’s to be done then. I agree on “redesign pretty much every street or road” but like, until then, it’s just a great big free for all?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
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        -id: 288370
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          date: 2024-01-07 11:43:26.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 288370
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910}
      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2393 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
        +body: "Speaking from germany, 33 in a 30 wouldn’t even trip the speed cams here. Earliest infraction is basically doing 6mph over on a 30mph road, which would come at 50€ fine. We apparently also have 50 times less speed cameras and it absolutely does not stop people from fucking malding over them. They have to be designed bulletproof here now and even those still get regularly blown up. None of the points you raise change anything about it, because the core issue is people are terminally car brained"
        +lang: "en"
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
          "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Saff@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1384 …}
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        -bodyTs: "'30':7 '30mph':25 '33':4 '50':31,37 '6mph':21 'absolut':44 'also':35 'anyth':77 'appar':34 'basic':19 'blown':68 'brain':89 'bulletproof':59 'cam':14 'camera':41 'car':88 'chang':76 'come':29 'core':82 'design':58 'earliest':16 'even':10,63 'fine':32 'fuck':50 'germani':3 'get':66 'infract':17 'issu':83 'less':39 'mald':51 'none':70 'peopl':48,85 'point':73 'rais':75 'regular':67 'road':26 'speak':1 'speed':13,40 'still':65 'stop':47 'termin':87 'time':38 'trip':11 'would':28 'wouldn':8"
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          date: 2024-01-07 15:15:31.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 288725
      }
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2030 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: "I’m not sure if you’re being serious here"
        +lang: "en"
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        +score: 0
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:25:09.0 +01:00
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2032 …}
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        -id: 289601
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:25:09.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 289601
      }
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2035 …}
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        +body: """
          > Why not?\n
          \n
          Because that’s hardly what can be considered a realistic solution. Again, not against it, but what, are you gonna close down like 90% of roads? Only some of them, if so, which ones, and how is stuff handled on the ones that remain open?
          """
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:42:56.0 +01:00
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2031 …}
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        -id: 289649
        -bodyTs: "'90':26 'close':23 'consid':10 'gonna':22 'handl':41 'hard':6 'like':25 'one':36,44 'open':47 'realist':12 'remain':46 'road':28 'solut':13 'stuff':40"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1704652976 {#2013
          date: 2024-01-07 19:42:56.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 289649
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2062 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: """
          > just roads that “require” speed cameras.\n
          \n
          So when’s that the case or not
          """
        +lang: "en"
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2081 …}
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        -id: 289695
        -bodyTs: "'camera':6 'case':12 'requir':4 'road':2 'speed':5"
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:58:47.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 289695
      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2092
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2094 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
        +body: "It’s a bad TL;DR but they do lay out why it’s illegal"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1704657389 {#2090
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
          "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2241 …}
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        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2040 …}
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        -id: 289800
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          date: 2024-01-07 20:56:29.0 +01:00
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      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2351
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2347 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
        +body: "What’s your usual transportation method?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2024-01-08 17:03:55.0 +01:00
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
          "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2332 …}
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          date: 2024-01-08 17:03:55.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 291985
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2327
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2329 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2333 …}
        +body: """
          > You want people to actually slow down? Redesign the road.\n
          \n
          I’ve posed this question elsewhere in this thread and: what until then? Like what do you do until a good, what, 50 - 90% of road depending on criteria, is redesigned?
          """
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2024-01-08 17:07:53.0 +01:00
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
        ]
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        -id: 291989
        -bodyTs: "'50':33 '90':34 'actual':5 'criteria':39 'depend':37 'elsewher':16 'good':31 'like':24 'peopl':3 'pose':13 'question':15 'redesign':8,41 'road':10,36 'slow':6 'thread':19 've':12 'want':2"
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        +"title": 291989
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2143
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2135 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2333 …}
        +body: """
          > Croydon council responded to FOI request stating it costs £2.5-£3.5k to install traffic islands. The cost of a speed camera installation on the other hand is £85,000 according to Bedford Council, with a £5000 annual upkeep cost.\n
          \n
          Croydon cites average cost for roughly such an action at 2,5k - 3,5k in a denial of the FOI request which means there’s pretty much no way to know how much it actually costs depending on what they calculate the average on and if you have any idea about the cost of public works that number should strike you as very, very oddly low.\n
          \n
          Wiltshire government [here](https://www.wiltshire.gov.uk/article/1281/Costs-of-highway-works) cites about 45.000k for a traffic island narrowing a road to one lane, all in all.\n
          \n
          The source you cite for the cameras, however, puts those costs for 2 cameras, so 42,500 a pop / 2500 upkeep annual, albeit with returns via fines obviously.
          """
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          > The process and length of time it takes for either option are practically the same.\n
          \n
          Sure, but you’re arguing for like instant speed camera abolishment or destruction here, aye?\n
          \n
          > Not to mention a traffic island costs like £3k while a camera costs £85k (guess why they pick the camera despite the price).\n
          \n
          Dunno if you got to that one already but I’ve did a reply pointing out where you’re a bit off there
          """
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          You can just say yes, you don’t have to couch this shit in a good WKUK skit.\n
          \n
          Do they do harm to the poor that are on bicycles, or walking, then?
          """
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2118
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        +body: """
          > Having been to court twice for online related stuff I will absolutely couch this shit.\n
          \n
          Fair, I meant it more on “don’t do it on my accord”\n
          \n
          > I do not see how that question is doing anything but attempting some sort of gotcha or accusation that these people\n
          \n
          Your these people just seems to have some very oddly drawn lines is the heart of it. It does include poor drivers, to whom speed cameras are a problem and not that much of a solution, it does not seem to include poor people not in a car, who profit from this. My FALGSOC doesn’t have speed cameras in it - who’s would - but it’s a long way from here to there.\n
          \n
          > deserve to be fucked over instead of have real designs that don’t result in their lives being made harder. It seems like spite to me.\n
          \n
          This is running on the assumption that I think people deserve to be fucked over for speeding, and that’s the main motivation. Sure, some of them, but that’s not the kind of distinction a speed cam could make on account of how it works. I’d very much be open to them not issuing fines but other punishments - as appropiate - to not make them so classist. Loss of driving license, if you really, really fuck up in a sports car that gets impounded or such, but I’ll concede, even that is far out from today, but just to point it out,\n
          \n
          My point here is that for every one it fucks over, it helps other people not being fucked over, because it does do something against speeding. My line of reasoning for speed cams is not that it fucks people over, it’s that it helps people. You wanna focus on the first part, I’m trying to get you to see the issue is more complex than that, at least if you include people outside of cars in your consideration. They’re not a good solution, by any means, again, I assume our optimal way of solving it is quite similar. For the meantime though, the fuck else do you do? Just abandon all traffic enforcement until all the roads get fixed? So what, 20 years of being vulnerable road users being even more endangered than now?
          """
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          > A negative in the short term leads to a longterm positive.\n
          \n
          I do not want to die a martyr to the fight against traffic cams.\n
          \n
          > Also I see no other method of doing this. If you go to the council and say “I want to replace this highly profitable traffic camera making hundreds of thousands per year with a traffic island that will make no money at all” the decision that any team will make internally is obvious.\n
          \n
          That kind of poses the second question as to what, in the interim, will be cut as per budget, but that’s a sidenote. I guarantee you without change far reaching enough to societally gain a new understanding of public space and roads, when the last speed cam is dismantled you’ll find all the roads still suck ass and will not be redesigned. Once you have the change so far reaching that you can reunderstand basically every road, yeah, then you don’t need the traffic cams anymore and they can be dismantled.
          """
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2322
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          > Meanwhile, in the real world we must be concerned with actually viable change.\n
          \n
          Real Zach Brannigan hours here on account of “It might get a lot of other people killed but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make”\n
          \n
          > You are inventing a fantasy reality to suit an anti car obsession. One I share, car reduction is good. However you’re being a tit now.\n
          \n
          What part of this is fantasy. Like where do you see the political potential for a nigh nationwide road redesign.
          """
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2294
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          > This is the weird fantasy part I was referring to. It’s like, just nonsense. It comes off like an american attitude being ported to the UK with absolutely no adaptation whatsoever to British conditions. Our conditions are nothing like america. Getting rid of cameras and getting traffic calming measures installed instead is not particularly difficult, it’s about the same. This idea of complete and widespread reinterpretation of public space? It doesn’t make sense here.\n
          \n
          I’m german tho.\n
          \n
          > By American standards it would be considered idyllic.\n
          \n
          As such, I do not believe american standards as per roads are anything to go by\n
          \n
          > Parts of the road already have traffic calming measures.\n
          \n
          That’s not really gonna stop anybody from speeding down the remaining lane(s) because they’re still very wide. It’s good for pedestrians, probably, don’t get me wrong, doesn’t really fight the speeding problem at all.\n
          \n
          > This is very easily expanded upon with the addition of chicanes, which are in wide use (hundreds of thousands) across the country.\n
          \n
          These do\n
          \n
          > There’s no “reimagining” needed here. People don’t need to develop a new consciousness of public space.\n
          \n
          Those are very much spotwork as per slowing down cars. They work for that spot, yes. It is however absolutely not hard to accelerate a car again. This is a good idea to slow people down before a busy or a school crossing or something, the third picture especially is just going to lead to slow down / wait -&gt; mash gas pedal\n
          \n
          > We do not live in a country that is utterly obsessed with cars like america.\n
          \n
          True, but also nigh about the lowest bar to clear right after like Saudi Arabia.\n
          \n
          > There are zero political barriers to this, the only barrier is the profit/revenue barrier of the traffic camera obsessed crowd.\n
          \n
          And you accuse me of living in some fantasy reality?\n
          \n
          > In every town, in every village, in every city. Outisde every school. In every residential area. All over the country.\n
          \n
          Same, could find similar features here by looking out my old apartments window. Hell, do you one better than that, we have shit like this\n
          \n
          ![](https://hexbear.net/pictrs/image/da817aa1-0f08-452f-9f76-95587ddeb3e0.png)\n
          \n
          Sorry for the grainy pictures, didn’t wanna spend that much time on google. Now that’s a road you can’t speed on, on account of many chicanes and other built up enviroments, not just the single one and then it’s open road before and after.\n
          \n
          Doesn’t mean the rest of it isn’t incredibly car brained and hostile, and as such, transportation by foot or cycling sucks major ass.\n
          \n
          If your vision of not being carbrained is “do better than the USA”, yeah, you’re there, but that shouldn’t be the end goal
          """
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    ]
    -id: 27607
    -titleTs: "'camera':2 'cornwal':9 'cut':3 'second':6 'speed':1 'time':7"
    -bodyTs: "'also':20 'commut':18 'endang':21 'go':10 'insan':3 'length':5 'other':22 'peopl':8 'save':12 'second':15"
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      date: 2024-01-06 13:45:17.0 +01:00
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     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906 …}
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  +body: """
    > The US, for instance, doesn’t have speed cameras\n
    \n
    That’s just straight up wrong.
    """
  +lang: "en"
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2695 …}
    +slug: "Speed-camera-cut-down-for-second-time-in-Cornwall"
    +title: "Speed camera cut down for second time in Cornwall"
    +url: "https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj5g1elz57qo"
    +body: "It’s insane the lengths that some people will go to save a few seconds on their commute, while also endangering others."
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    +children: [
      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "I mean so what’s to be done then. I agree on “redesign pretty much every street or road” but like, until then, it’s just a great big free for all?"
        +lang: "en"
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
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        +body: """
          > The US, for instance, doesn’t have speed cameras\n
          \n
          That’s just straight up wrong.
          """
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395}
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "I’m not sure if you’re being serious here"
        +lang: "en"
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          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:25:09.0 +01:00
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      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
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        +body: """
          > Why not?\n
          \n
          Because that’s hardly what can be considered a realistic solution. Again, not against it, but what, are you gonna close down like 90% of roads? Only some of them, if so, which ones, and how is stuff handled on the ones that remain open?
          """
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          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
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        ]
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        -id: 289649
        -bodyTs: "'90':26 'close':23 'consid':10 'gonna':22 'handl':41 'hard':6 'like':25 'one':36,44 'open':47 'realist':12 'remain':46 'road':28 'solut':13 'stuff':40"
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:42:56.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 289649
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: """
          > just roads that “require” speed cameras.\n
          \n
          So when’s that the case or not
          """
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:58:47.0 +01:00
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2092
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "It’s a bad TL;DR but they do lay out why it’s illegal"
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          "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
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      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2351
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
        +body: "What’s your usual transportation method?"
        +lang: "en"
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          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
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      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2327
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        +body: """
          > You want people to actually slow down? Redesign the road.\n
          \n
          I’ve posed this question elsewhere in this thread and: what until then? Like what do you do until a good, what, 50 - 90% of road depending on criteria, is redesigned?
          """
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      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2143
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        +body: """
          > Croydon council responded to FOI request stating it costs £2.5-£3.5k to install traffic islands. The cost of a speed camera installation on the other hand is £85,000 according to Bedford Council, with a £5000 annual upkeep cost.\n
          \n
          Croydon cites average cost for roughly such an action at 2,5k - 3,5k in a denial of the FOI request which means there’s pretty much no way to know how much it actually costs depending on what they calculate the average on and if you have any idea about the cost of public works that number should strike you as very, very oddly low.\n
          \n
          Wiltshire government [here](https://www.wiltshire.gov.uk/article/1281/Costs-of-highway-works) cites about 45.000k for a traffic island narrowing a road to one lane, all in all.\n
          \n
          The source you cite for the cameras, however, puts those costs for 2 cameras, so 42,500 a pop / 2500 upkeep annual, albeit with returns via fines obviously.
          """
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          date: 2024-01-08 17:33:32.0 +01:00
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      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2051
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        +body: """
          > The process and length of time it takes for either option are practically the same.\n
          \n
          Sure, but you’re arguing for like instant speed camera abolishment or destruction here, aye?\n
          \n
          > Not to mention a traffic island costs like £3k while a camera costs £85k (guess why they pick the camera despite the price).\n
          \n
          Dunno if you got to that one already but I’ve did a reply pointing out where you’re a bit off there
          """
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        +body: """
          You can just say yes, you don’t have to couch this shit in a good WKUK skit.\n
          \n
          Do they do harm to the poor that are on bicycles, or walking, then?
          """
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          date: 2024-01-08 18:56:34.0 +01:00
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2118
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        +body: """
          > Having been to court twice for online related stuff I will absolutely couch this shit.\n
          \n
          Fair, I meant it more on “don’t do it on my accord”\n
          \n
          > I do not see how that question is doing anything but attempting some sort of gotcha or accusation that these people\n
          \n
          Your these people just seems to have some very oddly drawn lines is the heart of it. It does include poor drivers, to whom speed cameras are a problem and not that much of a solution, it does not seem to include poor people not in a car, who profit from this. My FALGSOC doesn’t have speed cameras in it - who’s would - but it’s a long way from here to there.\n
          \n
          > deserve to be fucked over instead of have real designs that don’t result in their lives being made harder. It seems like spite to me.\n
          \n
          This is running on the assumption that I think people deserve to be fucked over for speeding, and that’s the main motivation. Sure, some of them, but that’s not the kind of distinction a speed cam could make on account of how it works. I’d very much be open to them not issuing fines but other punishments - as appropiate - to not make them so classist. Loss of driving license, if you really, really fuck up in a sports car that gets impounded or such, but I’ll concede, even that is far out from today, but just to point it out,\n
          \n
          My point here is that for every one it fucks over, it helps other people not being fucked over, because it does do something against speeding. My line of reasoning for speed cams is not that it fucks people over, it’s that it helps people. You wanna focus on the first part, I’m trying to get you to see the issue is more complex than that, at least if you include people outside of cars in your consideration. They’re not a good solution, by any means, again, I assume our optimal way of solving it is quite similar. For the meantime though, the fuck else do you do? Just abandon all traffic enforcement until all the roads get fixed? So what, 20 years of being vulnerable road users being even more endangered than now?
          """
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2229
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          > A negative in the short term leads to a longterm positive.\n
          \n
          I do not want to die a martyr to the fight against traffic cams.\n
          \n
          > Also I see no other method of doing this. If you go to the council and say “I want to replace this highly profitable traffic camera making hundreds of thousands per year with a traffic island that will make no money at all” the decision that any team will make internally is obvious.\n
          \n
          That kind of poses the second question as to what, in the interim, will be cut as per budget, but that’s a sidenote. I guarantee you without change far reaching enough to societally gain a new understanding of public space and roads, when the last speed cam is dismantled you’ll find all the roads still suck ass and will not be redesigned. Once you have the change so far reaching that you can reunderstand basically every road, yeah, then you don’t need the traffic cams anymore and they can be dismantled.
          """
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2322
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        +body: """
          > Meanwhile, in the real world we must be concerned with actually viable change.\n
          \n
          Real Zach Brannigan hours here on account of “It might get a lot of other people killed but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make”\n
          \n
          > You are inventing a fantasy reality to suit an anti car obsession. One I share, car reduction is good. However you’re being a tit now.\n
          \n
          What part of this is fantasy. Like where do you see the political potential for a nigh nationwide road redesign.
          """
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2294
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        +body: """
          > This is the weird fantasy part I was referring to. It’s like, just nonsense. It comes off like an american attitude being ported to the UK with absolutely no adaptation whatsoever to British conditions. Our conditions are nothing like america. Getting rid of cameras and getting traffic calming measures installed instead is not particularly difficult, it’s about the same. This idea of complete and widespread reinterpretation of public space? It doesn’t make sense here.\n
          \n
          I’m german tho.\n
          \n
          > By American standards it would be considered idyllic.\n
          \n
          As such, I do not believe american standards as per roads are anything to go by\n
          \n
          > Parts of the road already have traffic calming measures.\n
          \n
          That’s not really gonna stop anybody from speeding down the remaining lane(s) because they’re still very wide. It’s good for pedestrians, probably, don’t get me wrong, doesn’t really fight the speeding problem at all.\n
          \n
          > This is very easily expanded upon with the addition of chicanes, which are in wide use (hundreds of thousands) across the country.\n
          \n
          These do\n
          \n
          > There’s no “reimagining” needed here. People don’t need to develop a new consciousness of public space.\n
          \n
          Those are very much spotwork as per slowing down cars. They work for that spot, yes. It is however absolutely not hard to accelerate a car again. This is a good idea to slow people down before a busy or a school crossing or something, the third picture especially is just going to lead to slow down / wait -&gt; mash gas pedal\n
          \n
          > We do not live in a country that is utterly obsessed with cars like america.\n
          \n
          True, but also nigh about the lowest bar to clear right after like Saudi Arabia.\n
          \n
          > There are zero political barriers to this, the only barrier is the profit/revenue barrier of the traffic camera obsessed crowd.\n
          \n
          And you accuse me of living in some fantasy reality?\n
          \n
          > In every town, in every village, in every city. Outisde every school. In every residential area. All over the country.\n
          \n
          Same, could find similar features here by looking out my old apartments window. Hell, do you one better than that, we have shit like this\n
          \n
          ![](https://hexbear.net/pictrs/image/da817aa1-0f08-452f-9f76-95587ddeb3e0.png)\n
          \n
          Sorry for the grainy pictures, didn’t wanna spend that much time on google. Now that’s a road you can’t speed on, on account of many chicanes and other built up enviroments, not just the single one and then it’s open road before and after.\n
          \n
          Doesn’t mean the rest of it isn’t incredibly car brained and hostile, and as such, transportation by foot or cycling sucks major ass.\n
          \n
          If your vision of not being carbrained is “do better than the USA”, yeah, you’re there, but that shouldn’t be the end goal
          """
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          date: 2024-01-11 17:32:35.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 299279
      }
    ]
    -id: 27607
    -titleTs: "'camera':2 'cornwal':9 'cut':3 'second':6 'speed':1 'time':7"
    -bodyTs: "'also':20 'commut':18 'endang':21 'go':10 'insan':3 'length':5 'other':22 'peopl':8 'save':12 'second':15"
    +cross: false
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      date: 2024-01-06 13:45:17.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2393 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
  +body: "Speaking from germany, 33 in a 30 wouldn’t even trip the speed cams here. Earliest infraction is basically doing 6mph over on a 30mph road, which would come at 50€ fine. We apparently also have 50 times less speed cameras and it absolutely does not stop people from fucking malding over them. They have to be designed bulletproof here now and even those still get regularly blown up. None of the points you raise change anything about it, because the core issue is people are terminally car brained"
  +lang: "en"
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    "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
    "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
    "@Saff@lemmy.ml"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1384 …}
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  -id: 288725
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  +"title": 288725
}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2549 …}
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    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2694 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2695 …}
    +slug: "Speed-camera-cut-down-for-second-time-in-Cornwall"
    +title: "Speed camera cut down for second time in Cornwall"
    +url: "https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj5g1elz57qo"
    +body: "It’s insane the lengths that some people will go to save a few seconds on their commute, while also endangering others."
    +type: "link"
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      date: 2024-01-11 17:32:35.0 +01:00
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    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2714 …}
    +children: [
      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: "I mean so what’s to be done then. I agree on “redesign pretty much every street or road” but like, until then, it’s just a great big free for all?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
        ]
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        -id: 288370
        -bodyTs: "'agre':11 'big':29 'done':8 'everi':16 'free':30 'great':28 'like':21 'mean':2 'much':15 'pretti':14 'redesign':13 'road':19 'street':17"
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          date: 2024-01-07 11:43:26.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 288370
      }
      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
        +body: """
          > The US, for instance, doesn’t have speed cameras\n
          \n
          That’s just straight up wrong.
          """
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2024-01-07 12:01:02.0 +01:00
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1708 …}
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          date: 2024-01-07 12:01:02.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 288397
      }
      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395}
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2030 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: "I’m not sure if you’re being serious here"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 3
        +score: 0
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:25:09.0 +01:00
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2032 …}
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        -id: 289601
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:25:09.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 289601
      }
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2035 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: """
          > Why not?\n
          \n
          Because that’s hardly what can be considered a realistic solution. Again, not against it, but what, are you gonna close down like 90% of roads? Only some of them, if so, which ones, and how is stuff handled on the ones that remain open?
          """
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:42:56.0 +01:00
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2031 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2037 …}
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        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2079 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2078 …}
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        -id: 289649
        -bodyTs: "'90':26 'close':23 'consid':10 'gonna':22 'handl':41 'hard':6 'like':25 'one':36,44 'open':47 'realist':12 'remain':46 'road':28 'solut':13 'stuff':40"
        +ranking: 0
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1704652976 {#2013
          date: 2024-01-07 19:42:56.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 289649
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2062 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: """
          > just roads that “require” speed cameras.\n
          \n
          So when’s that the case or not
          """
        +lang: "en"
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          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2081 …}
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        -id: 289695
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:58:47.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 289695
      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2092
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2094 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
        +body: "It’s a bad TL;DR but they do lay out why it’s illegal"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
          "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2241 …}
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        -id: 289800
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          date: 2024-01-07 20:56:29.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 289800
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      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2351
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2347 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
        +body: "What’s your usual transportation method?"
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2024-01-08 17:03:55.0 +01:00
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
          "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2332 …}
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        -id: 291985
        -bodyTs: "'method':6 'transport':5 'usual':4"
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          date: 2024-01-08 17:03:55.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 291985
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2327
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2333 …}
        +body: """
          > You want people to actually slow down? Redesign the road.\n
          \n
          I’ve posed this question elsewhere in this thread and: what until then? Like what do you do until a good, what, 50 - 90% of road depending on criteria, is redesigned?
          """
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
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        -id: 291989
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        +"title": 291989
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      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2143
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        +body: """
          > Croydon council responded to FOI request stating it costs £2.5-£3.5k to install traffic islands. The cost of a speed camera installation on the other hand is £85,000 according to Bedford Council, with a £5000 annual upkeep cost.\n
          \n
          Croydon cites average cost for roughly such an action at 2,5k - 3,5k in a denial of the FOI request which means there’s pretty much no way to know how much it actually costs depending on what they calculate the average on and if you have any idea about the cost of public works that number should strike you as very, very oddly low.\n
          \n
          Wiltshire government [here](https://www.wiltshire.gov.uk/article/1281/Costs-of-highway-works) cites about 45.000k for a traffic island narrowing a road to one lane, all in all.\n
          \n
          The source you cite for the cameras, however, puts those costs for 2 cameras, so 42,500 a pop / 2500 upkeep annual, albeit with returns via fines obviously.
          """
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
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        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2136 …}
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        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2024-01-08 17:33:32.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 291995
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2051
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2056 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2333 …}
        +body: """
          > The process and length of time it takes for either option are practically the same.\n
          \n
          Sure, but you’re arguing for like instant speed camera abolishment or destruction here, aye?\n
          \n
          > Not to mention a traffic island costs like £3k while a camera costs £85k (guess why they pick the camera despite the price).\n
          \n
          Dunno if you got to that one already but I’ve did a reply pointing out where you’re a bit off there
          """
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          You can just say yes, you don’t have to couch this shit in a good WKUK skit.\n
          \n
          Do they do harm to the poor that are on bicycles, or walking, then?
          """
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          date: 2024-01-08 18:56:34.0 +01:00
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        +body: """
          > Having been to court twice for online related stuff I will absolutely couch this shit.\n
          \n
          Fair, I meant it more on “don’t do it on my accord”\n
          \n
          > I do not see how that question is doing anything but attempting some sort of gotcha or accusation that these people\n
          \n
          Your these people just seems to have some very oddly drawn lines is the heart of it. It does include poor drivers, to whom speed cameras are a problem and not that much of a solution, it does not seem to include poor people not in a car, who profit from this. My FALGSOC doesn’t have speed cameras in it - who’s would - but it’s a long way from here to there.\n
          \n
          > deserve to be fucked over instead of have real designs that don’t result in their lives being made harder. It seems like spite to me.\n
          \n
          This is running on the assumption that I think people deserve to be fucked over for speeding, and that’s the main motivation. Sure, some of them, but that’s not the kind of distinction a speed cam could make on account of how it works. I’d very much be open to them not issuing fines but other punishments - as appropiate - to not make them so classist. Loss of driving license, if you really, really fuck up in a sports car that gets impounded or such, but I’ll concede, even that is far out from today, but just to point it out,\n
          \n
          My point here is that for every one it fucks over, it helps other people not being fucked over, because it does do something against speeding. My line of reasoning for speed cams is not that it fucks people over, it’s that it helps people. You wanna focus on the first part, I’m trying to get you to see the issue is more complex than that, at least if you include people outside of cars in your consideration. They’re not a good solution, by any means, again, I assume our optimal way of solving it is quite similar. For the meantime though, the fuck else do you do? Just abandon all traffic enforcement until all the roads get fixed? So what, 20 years of being vulnerable road users being even more endangered than now?
          """
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          > A negative in the short term leads to a longterm positive.\n
          \n
          I do not want to die a martyr to the fight against traffic cams.\n
          \n
          > Also I see no other method of doing this. If you go to the council and say “I want to replace this highly profitable traffic camera making hundreds of thousands per year with a traffic island that will make no money at all” the decision that any team will make internally is obvious.\n
          \n
          That kind of poses the second question as to what, in the interim, will be cut as per budget, but that’s a sidenote. I guarantee you without change far reaching enough to societally gain a new understanding of public space and roads, when the last speed cam is dismantled you’ll find all the roads still suck ass and will not be redesigned. Once you have the change so far reaching that you can reunderstand basically every road, yeah, then you don’t need the traffic cams anymore and they can be dismantled.
          """
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          > Meanwhile, in the real world we must be concerned with actually viable change.\n
          \n
          Real Zach Brannigan hours here on account of “It might get a lot of other people killed but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make”\n
          \n
          > You are inventing a fantasy reality to suit an anti car obsession. One I share, car reduction is good. However you’re being a tit now.\n
          \n
          What part of this is fantasy. Like where do you see the political potential for a nigh nationwide road redesign.
          """
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        +body: """
          > This is the weird fantasy part I was referring to. It’s like, just nonsense. It comes off like an american attitude being ported to the UK with absolutely no adaptation whatsoever to British conditions. Our conditions are nothing like america. Getting rid of cameras and getting traffic calming measures installed instead is not particularly difficult, it’s about the same. This idea of complete and widespread reinterpretation of public space? It doesn’t make sense here.\n
          \n
          I’m german tho.\n
          \n
          > By American standards it would be considered idyllic.\n
          \n
          As such, I do not believe american standards as per roads are anything to go by\n
          \n
          > Parts of the road already have traffic calming measures.\n
          \n
          That’s not really gonna stop anybody from speeding down the remaining lane(s) because they’re still very wide. It’s good for pedestrians, probably, don’t get me wrong, doesn’t really fight the speeding problem at all.\n
          \n
          > This is very easily expanded upon with the addition of chicanes, which are in wide use (hundreds of thousands) across the country.\n
          \n
          These do\n
          \n
          > There’s no “reimagining” needed here. People don’t need to develop a new consciousness of public space.\n
          \n
          Those are very much spotwork as per slowing down cars. They work for that spot, yes. It is however absolutely not hard to accelerate a car again. This is a good idea to slow people down before a busy or a school crossing or something, the third picture especially is just going to lead to slow down / wait -&gt; mash gas pedal\n
          \n
          > We do not live in a country that is utterly obsessed with cars like america.\n
          \n
          True, but also nigh about the lowest bar to clear right after like Saudi Arabia.\n
          \n
          > There are zero political barriers to this, the only barrier is the profit/revenue barrier of the traffic camera obsessed crowd.\n
          \n
          And you accuse me of living in some fantasy reality?\n
          \n
          > In every town, in every village, in every city. Outisde every school. In every residential area. All over the country.\n
          \n
          Same, could find similar features here by looking out my old apartments window. Hell, do you one better than that, we have shit like this\n
          \n
          ![](https://hexbear.net/pictrs/image/da817aa1-0f08-452f-9f76-95587ddeb3e0.png)\n
          \n
          Sorry for the grainy pictures, didn’t wanna spend that much time on google. Now that’s a road you can’t speed on, on account of many chicanes and other built up enviroments, not just the single one and then it’s open road before and after.\n
          \n
          Doesn’t mean the rest of it isn’t incredibly car brained and hostile, and as such, transportation by foot or cycling sucks major ass.\n
          \n
          If your vision of not being carbrained is “do better than the USA”, yeah, you’re there, but that shouldn’t be the end goal
          """
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  +body: "Speaking from germany, 33 in a 30 wouldn’t even trip the speed cams here. Earliest infraction is basically doing 6mph over on a 30mph road, which would come at 50€ fine. We apparently also have 50 times less speed cameras and it absolutely does not stop people from fucking malding over them. They have to be designed bulletproof here now and even those still get regularly blown up. None of the points you raise change anything about it, because the core issue is people are terminally car brained"
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  -bodyTs: "'30':7 '30mph':25 '33':4 '50':31,37 '6mph':21 'absolut':44 'also':35 'anyth':77 'appar':34 'basic':19 'blown':68 'brain':89 'bulletproof':59 'cam':14 'camera':41 'car':88 'chang':76 'come':29 'core':82 'design':58 'earliest':16 'even':10,63 'fine':32 'fuck':50 'germani':3 'get':66 'infract':17 'issu':83 'less':39 'mald':51 'none':70 'peopl':48,85 'point':73 'rais':75 'regular':67 'road':26 'speak':1 'speed':13,40 'still':65 'stop':47 'termin':87 'time':38 'trip':11 'would':28 'wouldn':8"
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    date: 2024-01-07 15:15:31.0 +01:00
  }
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2549 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2694 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2695 …}
    +slug: "Speed-camera-cut-down-for-second-time-in-Cornwall"
    +title: "Speed camera cut down for second time in Cornwall"
    +url: "https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj5g1elz57qo"
    +body: "It’s insane the lengths that some people will go to save a few seconds on their commute, while also endangering others."
    +type: "link"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: false
    +commentCount: 200
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    +lastActive: DateTime @1704990755 {#2689
      date: 2024-01-11 17:32:35.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2704 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2706 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2708 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2710 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2712 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2714 …}
    +children: [
      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: "I mean so what’s to be done then. I agree on “redesign pretty much every street or road” but like, until then, it’s just a great big free for all?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 8
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          date: 2024-01-07 11:43:26.0 +01:00
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2360 …}
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        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2386 …}
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        -bodyTs: "'agre':11 'big':29 'done':8 'everi':16 'free':30 'great':28 'like':21 'mean':2 'much':15 'pretti':14 'redesign':13 'road':19 'street':17"
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          date: 2024-01-07 11:43:26.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 288370
      }
      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
        +body: """
          > The US, for instance, doesn’t have speed cameras\n
          \n
          That’s just straight up wrong.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2024-01-07 12:01:02.0 +01:00
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1708 …}
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        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1407 …}
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        -id: 288397
        -bodyTs: "'camera':9 'doesn':5 'instanc':4 'speed':8 'straight':13 'us':2 'wrong':15"
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          date: 2024-01-07 12:01:02.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 288397
      }
      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395}
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2030 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: "I’m not sure if you’re being serious here"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 3
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1704651909 {#1403
          date: 2024-01-07 19:25:09.0 +01:00
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2032 …}
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        -id: 289601
        -bodyTs: "'m':2 're':7 'serious':9 'sure':4"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1704651909 {#2019
          date: 2024-01-07 19:25:09.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 289601
      }
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2035 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: """
          > Why not?\n
          \n
          Because that’s hardly what can be considered a realistic solution. Again, not against it, but what, are you gonna close down like 90% of roads? Only some of them, if so, which ones, and how is stuff handled on the ones that remain open?
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:42:56.0 +01:00
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2031 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2037 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2075 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2079 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2078 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2097 …}
        -id: 289649
        -bodyTs: "'90':26 'close':23 'consid':10 'gonna':22 'handl':41 'hard':6 'like':25 'one':36,44 'open':47 'realist':12 'remain':46 'road':28 'solut':13 'stuff':40"
        +ranking: 0
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1704652976 {#2013
          date: 2024-01-07 19:42:56.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 289649
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2062 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: """
          > just roads that “require” speed cameras.\n
          \n
          So when’s that the case or not
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 4
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:58:47.0 +01:00
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2081 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2098 …}
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        -id: 289695
        -bodyTs: "'camera':6 'case':12 'requir':4 'road':2 'speed':5"
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:58:47.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 289695
      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2092
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2094 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
        +body: "It’s a bad TL;DR but they do lay out why it’s illegal"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1704657389 {#2090
          date: 2024-01-07 20:56:29.0 +01:00
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
          "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2241 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2130 …}
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        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2132 …}
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        -id: 289800
        -bodyTs: "'bad':4 'dr':6 'illeg':15 'lay':10 'tl':5"
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          date: 2024-01-07 20:56:29.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 289800
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2351
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2347 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
        +body: "What’s your usual transportation method?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
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        +lastActive: DateTime @1704729835 {#2348
          date: 2024-01-08 17:03:55.0 +01:00
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
          "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2332 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2349 …}
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        -id: 291985
        -bodyTs: "'method':6 'transport':5 'usual':4"
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          date: 2024-01-08 17:03:55.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 291985
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2327
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2329 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2333 …}
        +body: """
          > You want people to actually slow down? Redesign the road.\n
          \n
          I’ve posed this question elsewhere in this thread and: what until then? Like what do you do until a good, what, 50 - 90% of road depending on criteria, is redesigned?
          """
        +lang: "en"
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
        ]
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        -id: 291989
        -bodyTs: "'50':33 '90':34 'actual':5 'criteria':39 'depend':37 'elsewher':16 'good':31 'like':24 'peopl':3 'pose':13 'question':15 'redesign':8,41 'road':10,36 'slow':6 'thread':19 've':12 'want':2"
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          date: 2024-01-08 17:07:53.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 291989
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2143
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2333 …}
        +body: """
          > Croydon council responded to FOI request stating it costs £2.5-£3.5k to install traffic islands. The cost of a speed camera installation on the other hand is £85,000 according to Bedford Council, with a £5000 annual upkeep cost.\n
          \n
          Croydon cites average cost for roughly such an action at 2,5k - 3,5k in a denial of the FOI request which means there’s pretty much no way to know how much it actually costs depending on what they calculate the average on and if you have any idea about the cost of public works that number should strike you as very, very oddly low.\n
          \n
          Wiltshire government [here](https://www.wiltshire.gov.uk/article/1281/Costs-of-highway-works) cites about 45.000k for a traffic island narrowing a road to one lane, all in all.\n
          \n
          The source you cite for the cameras, however, puts those costs for 2 cameras, so 42,500 a pop / 2500 upkeep annual, albeit with returns via fines obviously.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
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          date: 2024-01-08 17:33:32.0 +01:00
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2136 …}
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        -id: 291995
        -bodyTs: "'/article/1281/costs-of-highway-works)':112 '000':30 '2':51,142 '2.5':10 '2500':149 '3':53 '3.5':11 '42':145 '45.000':115 '500':146 '5000':37 '5k':52,54 '85':29 'accord':31 'action':49 'actual':75 'albeit':152 'annual':38,151 'averag':43,83 'bedford':33 'calcul':81 'camera':22,136,143 'cite':42,113,133 'cost':9,18,40,44,76,93,140 'council':2,34 'croydon':1,41 'denial':57 'depend':77 'fine':156 'foi':5,60 'govern':108 'hand':27 'howev':137 'idea':90 'instal':14,23 'island':16,120 'k':12,116 'know':71 'lane':126 'low':106 'mean':63 'much':67,73 'narrow':121 'number':98 'obvious':157 'odd':105 'one':125 'pop':148 'pretti':66 'public':95 'put':138 'request':6,61 'respond':3 'return':154 'road':123 'rough':46 'sourc':131 'speed':21 'state':7 'strike':100 'traffic':15,119 'upkeep':39,150 'via':155 'way':69 'wiltshir':107 'work':96 'www.wiltshire.gov.uk':111 'www.wiltshire.gov.uk/article/1281/costs-of-highway-works)':110"
        +ranking: 0
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1704731612 {#2159
          date: 2024-01-08 17:33:32.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 291995
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2051
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2056 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2333 …}
        +body: """
          > The process and length of time it takes for either option are practically the same.\n
          \n
          Sure, but you’re arguing for like instant speed camera abolishment or destruction here, aye?\n
          \n
          > Not to mention a traffic island costs like £3k while a camera costs £85k (guess why they pick the camera despite the price).\n
          \n
          Dunno if you got to that one already but I’ve did a reply pointing out where you’re a bit off there
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2024-01-08 18:26:47.0 +01:00
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2059 …}
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        -id: 292001
        -bodyTs: "'3k':39 '85k':44 'abolish':26 'alreadi':61 'argu':20 'aye':30 'bit':74 'camera':25,42,50 'cost':37,43 'despit':51 'destruct':28 'dunno':54 'either':10 'got':57 'guess':45 'instant':23 'island':36 'length':4 'like':22,38 'mention':33 'one':60 'option':11 'pick':48 'point':68 'practic':13 'price':53 'process':2 're':19,72 'repli':67 'speed':24 'sure':16 'take':8 'time':6 'traffic':35 've':64"
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          date: 2024-01-08 18:26:47.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 292001
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2104
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
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          You can just say yes, you don’t have to couch this shit in a good WKUK skit.\n
          \n
          Do they do harm to the poor that are on bicycles, or walking, then?
          """
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          date: 2024-01-08 18:56:34.0 +01:00
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        +body: """
          > Having been to court twice for online related stuff I will absolutely couch this shit.\n
          \n
          Fair, I meant it more on “don’t do it on my accord”\n
          \n
          > I do not see how that question is doing anything but attempting some sort of gotcha or accusation that these people\n
          \n
          Your these people just seems to have some very oddly drawn lines is the heart of it. It does include poor drivers, to whom speed cameras are a problem and not that much of a solution, it does not seem to include poor people not in a car, who profit from this. My FALGSOC doesn’t have speed cameras in it - who’s would - but it’s a long way from here to there.\n
          \n
          > deserve to be fucked over instead of have real designs that don’t result in their lives being made harder. It seems like spite to me.\n
          \n
          This is running on the assumption that I think people deserve to be fucked over for speeding, and that’s the main motivation. Sure, some of them, but that’s not the kind of distinction a speed cam could make on account of how it works. I’d very much be open to them not issuing fines but other punishments - as appropiate - to not make them so classist. Loss of driving license, if you really, really fuck up in a sports car that gets impounded or such, but I’ll concede, even that is far out from today, but just to point it out,\n
          \n
          My point here is that for every one it fucks over, it helps other people not being fucked over, because it does do something against speeding. My line of reasoning for speed cams is not that it fucks people over, it’s that it helps people. You wanna focus on the first part, I’m trying to get you to see the issue is more complex than that, at least if you include people outside of cars in your consideration. They’re not a good solution, by any means, again, I assume our optimal way of solving it is quite similar. For the meantime though, the fuck else do you do? Just abandon all traffic enforcement until all the roads get fixed? So what, 20 years of being vulnerable road users being even more endangered than now?
          """
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          > A negative in the short term leads to a longterm positive.\n
          \n
          I do not want to die a martyr to the fight against traffic cams.\n
          \n
          > Also I see no other method of doing this. If you go to the council and say “I want to replace this highly profitable traffic camera making hundreds of thousands per year with a traffic island that will make no money at all” the decision that any team will make internally is obvious.\n
          \n
          That kind of poses the second question as to what, in the interim, will be cut as per budget, but that’s a sidenote. I guarantee you without change far reaching enough to societally gain a new understanding of public space and roads, when the last speed cam is dismantled you’ll find all the roads still suck ass and will not be redesigned. Once you have the change so far reaching that you can reunderstand basically every road, yeah, then you don’t need the traffic cams anymore and they can be dismantled.
          """
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2322
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          > Meanwhile, in the real world we must be concerned with actually viable change.\n
          \n
          Real Zach Brannigan hours here on account of “It might get a lot of other people killed but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make”\n
          \n
          > You are inventing a fantasy reality to suit an anti car obsession. One I share, car reduction is good. However you’re being a tit now.\n
          \n
          What part of this is fantasy. Like where do you see the political potential for a nigh nationwide road redesign.
          """
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2294
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        +body: """
          > This is the weird fantasy part I was referring to. It’s like, just nonsense. It comes off like an american attitude being ported to the UK with absolutely no adaptation whatsoever to British conditions. Our conditions are nothing like america. Getting rid of cameras and getting traffic calming measures installed instead is not particularly difficult, it’s about the same. This idea of complete and widespread reinterpretation of public space? It doesn’t make sense here.\n
          \n
          I’m german tho.\n
          \n
          > By American standards it would be considered idyllic.\n
          \n
          As such, I do not believe american standards as per roads are anything to go by\n
          \n
          > Parts of the road already have traffic calming measures.\n
          \n
          That’s not really gonna stop anybody from speeding down the remaining lane(s) because they’re still very wide. It’s good for pedestrians, probably, don’t get me wrong, doesn’t really fight the speeding problem at all.\n
          \n
          > This is very easily expanded upon with the addition of chicanes, which are in wide use (hundreds of thousands) across the country.\n
          \n
          These do\n
          \n
          > There’s no “reimagining” needed here. People don’t need to develop a new consciousness of public space.\n
          \n
          Those are very much spotwork as per slowing down cars. They work for that spot, yes. It is however absolutely not hard to accelerate a car again. This is a good idea to slow people down before a busy or a school crossing or something, the third picture especially is just going to lead to slow down / wait -&gt; mash gas pedal\n
          \n
          > We do not live in a country that is utterly obsessed with cars like america.\n
          \n
          True, but also nigh about the lowest bar to clear right after like Saudi Arabia.\n
          \n
          > There are zero political barriers to this, the only barrier is the profit/revenue barrier of the traffic camera obsessed crowd.\n
          \n
          And you accuse me of living in some fantasy reality?\n
          \n
          > In every town, in every village, in every city. Outisde every school. In every residential area. All over the country.\n
          \n
          Same, could find similar features here by looking out my old apartments window. Hell, do you one better than that, we have shit like this\n
          \n
          ![](https://hexbear.net/pictrs/image/da817aa1-0f08-452f-9f76-95587ddeb3e0.png)\n
          \n
          Sorry for the grainy pictures, didn’t wanna spend that much time on google. Now that’s a road you can’t speed on, on account of many chicanes and other built up enviroments, not just the single one and then it’s open road before and after.\n
          \n
          Doesn’t mean the rest of it isn’t incredibly car brained and hostile, and as such, transportation by foot or cycling sucks major ass.\n
          \n
          If your vision of not being carbrained is “do better than the USA”, yeah, you’re there, but that shouldn’t be the end goal
          """
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  +body: "Speaking from germany, 33 in a 30 wouldn’t even trip the speed cams here. Earliest infraction is basically doing 6mph over on a 30mph road, which would come at 50€ fine. We apparently also have 50 times less speed cameras and it absolutely does not stop people from fucking malding over them. They have to be designed bulletproof here now and even those still get regularly blown up. None of the points you raise change anything about it, because the core issue is people are terminally car brained"
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
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    +slug: "Speed-camera-cut-down-for-second-time-in-Cornwall"
    +title: "Speed camera cut down for second time in Cornwall"
    +url: "https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj5g1elz57qo"
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    +children: [
      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: "I mean so what’s to be done then. I agree on “redesign pretty much every street or road” but like, until then, it’s just a great big free for all?"
        +lang: "en"
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
        ]
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        -bodyTs: "'agre':11 'big':29 'done':8 'everi':16 'free':30 'great':28 'like':21 'mean':2 'much':15 'pretti':14 'redesign':13 'road':19 'street':17"
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          date: 2024-01-07 11:43:26.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 288370
      }
      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
        +body: """
          > The US, for instance, doesn’t have speed cameras\n
          \n
          That’s just straight up wrong.
          """
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
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        -id: 288397
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          date: 2024-01-07 12:01:02.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 288397
      }
      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
        +body: "Speaking from germany, 33 in a 30 wouldn’t even trip the speed cams here. Earliest infraction is basically doing 6mph over on a 30mph road, which would come at 50€ fine. We apparently also have 50 times less speed cameras and it absolutely does not stop people from fucking malding over them. They have to be designed bulletproof here now and even those still get regularly blown up. None of the points you raise change anything about it, because the core issue is people are terminally car brained"
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
          "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Saff@lemmy.ml"
        ]
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          date: 2024-01-07 15:15:31.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 288725
      }
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023}
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2035 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: """
          > Why not?\n
          \n
          Because that’s hardly what can be considered a realistic solution. Again, not against it, but what, are you gonna close down like 90% of roads? Only some of them, if so, which ones, and how is stuff handled on the ones that remain open?
          """
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:42:56.0 +01:00
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:42:56.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 289649
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2062 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: """
          > just roads that “require” speed cameras.\n
          \n
          So when’s that the case or not
          """
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:58:47.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 289695
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2092
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
        +body: "It’s a bad TL;DR but they do lay out why it’s illegal"
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2024-01-07 20:56:29.0 +01:00
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
          "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
        ]
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        -bodyTs: "'bad':4 'dr':6 'illeg':15 'lay':10 'tl':5"
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          date: 2024-01-07 20:56:29.0 +01:00
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      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2351
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2347 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
        +body: "What’s your usual transportation method?"
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2024-01-08 17:03:55.0 +01:00
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
          "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
        ]
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        -id: 291985
        -bodyTs: "'method':6 'transport':5 'usual':4"
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          date: 2024-01-08 17:03:55.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 291985
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2327
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2333 …}
        +body: """
          > You want people to actually slow down? Redesign the road.\n
          \n
          I’ve posed this question elsewhere in this thread and: what until then? Like what do you do until a good, what, 50 - 90% of road depending on criteria, is redesigned?
          """
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
        ]
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        -id: 291989
        -bodyTs: "'50':33 '90':34 'actual':5 'criteria':39 'depend':37 'elsewher':16 'good':31 'like':24 'peopl':3 'pose':13 'question':15 'redesign':8,41 'road':10,36 'slow':6 'thread':19 've':12 'want':2"
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        +"title": 291989
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2143
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        +body: """
          > Croydon council responded to FOI request stating it costs £2.5-£3.5k to install traffic islands. The cost of a speed camera installation on the other hand is £85,000 according to Bedford Council, with a £5000 annual upkeep cost.\n
          \n
          Croydon cites average cost for roughly such an action at 2,5k - 3,5k in a denial of the FOI request which means there’s pretty much no way to know how much it actually costs depending on what they calculate the average on and if you have any idea about the cost of public works that number should strike you as very, very oddly low.\n
          \n
          Wiltshire government [here](https://www.wiltshire.gov.uk/article/1281/Costs-of-highway-works) cites about 45.000k for a traffic island narrowing a road to one lane, all in all.\n
          \n
          The source you cite for the cameras, however, puts those costs for 2 cameras, so 42,500 a pop / 2500 upkeep annual, albeit with returns via fines obviously.
          """
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
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          date: 2024-01-08 17:33:32.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 291995
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2051
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: """
          > The process and length of time it takes for either option are practically the same.\n
          \n
          Sure, but you’re arguing for like instant speed camera abolishment or destruction here, aye?\n
          \n
          > Not to mention a traffic island costs like £3k while a camera costs £85k (guess why they pick the camera despite the price).\n
          \n
          Dunno if you got to that one already but I’ve did a reply pointing out where you’re a bit off there
          """
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
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        -id: 292001
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          date: 2024-01-08 18:26:47.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 292001
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2104
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        +body: """
          You can just say yes, you don’t have to couch this shit in a good WKUK skit.\n
          \n
          Do they do harm to the poor that are on bicycles, or walking, then?
          """
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          date: 2024-01-08 18:56:34.0 +01:00
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
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        -id: 292004
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        +apId: "https://hexbear.net/comment/4458942"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1704736594 {#2041
          date: 2024-01-08 18:56:34.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 292004
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2118
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          > Having been to court twice for online related stuff I will absolutely couch this shit.\n
          \n
          Fair, I meant it more on “don’t do it on my accord”\n
          \n
          > I do not see how that question is doing anything but attempting some sort of gotcha or accusation that these people\n
          \n
          Your these people just seems to have some very oddly drawn lines is the heart of it. It does include poor drivers, to whom speed cameras are a problem and not that much of a solution, it does not seem to include poor people not in a car, who profit from this. My FALGSOC doesn’t have speed cameras in it - who’s would - but it’s a long way from here to there.\n
          \n
          > deserve to be fucked over instead of have real designs that don’t result in their lives being made harder. It seems like spite to me.\n
          \n
          This is running on the assumption that I think people deserve to be fucked over for speeding, and that’s the main motivation. Sure, some of them, but that’s not the kind of distinction a speed cam could make on account of how it works. I’d very much be open to them not issuing fines but other punishments - as appropiate - to not make them so classist. Loss of driving license, if you really, really fuck up in a sports car that gets impounded or such, but I’ll concede, even that is far out from today, but just to point it out,\n
          \n
          My point here is that for every one it fucks over, it helps other people not being fucked over, because it does do something against speeding. My line of reasoning for speed cams is not that it fucks people over, it’s that it helps people. You wanna focus on the first part, I’m trying to get you to see the issue is more complex than that, at least if you include people outside of cars in your consideration. They’re not a good solution, by any means, again, I assume our optimal way of solving it is quite similar. For the meantime though, the fuck else do you do? Just abandon all traffic enforcement until all the roads get fixed? So what, 20 years of being vulnerable road users being even more endangered than now?
          """
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          > A negative in the short term leads to a longterm positive.\n
          \n
          I do not want to die a martyr to the fight against traffic cams.\n
          \n
          > Also I see no other method of doing this. If you go to the council and say “I want to replace this highly profitable traffic camera making hundreds of thousands per year with a traffic island that will make no money at all” the decision that any team will make internally is obvious.\n
          \n
          That kind of poses the second question as to what, in the interim, will be cut as per budget, but that’s a sidenote. I guarantee you without change far reaching enough to societally gain a new understanding of public space and roads, when the last speed cam is dismantled you’ll find all the roads still suck ass and will not be redesigned. Once you have the change so far reaching that you can reunderstand basically every road, yeah, then you don’t need the traffic cams anymore and they can be dismantled.
          """
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          > Meanwhile, in the real world we must be concerned with actually viable change.\n
          \n
          Real Zach Brannigan hours here on account of “It might get a lot of other people killed but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make”\n
          \n
          > You are inventing a fantasy reality to suit an anti car obsession. One I share, car reduction is good. However you’re being a tit now.\n
          \n
          What part of this is fantasy. Like where do you see the political potential for a nigh nationwide road redesign.
          """
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        +body: """
          > This is the weird fantasy part I was referring to. It’s like, just nonsense. It comes off like an american attitude being ported to the UK with absolutely no adaptation whatsoever to British conditions. Our conditions are nothing like america. Getting rid of cameras and getting traffic calming measures installed instead is not particularly difficult, it’s about the same. This idea of complete and widespread reinterpretation of public space? It doesn’t make sense here.\n
          \n
          I’m german tho.\n
          \n
          > By American standards it would be considered idyllic.\n
          \n
          As such, I do not believe american standards as per roads are anything to go by\n
          \n
          > Parts of the road already have traffic calming measures.\n
          \n
          That’s not really gonna stop anybody from speeding down the remaining lane(s) because they’re still very wide. It’s good for pedestrians, probably, don’t get me wrong, doesn’t really fight the speeding problem at all.\n
          \n
          > This is very easily expanded upon with the addition of chicanes, which are in wide use (hundreds of thousands) across the country.\n
          \n
          These do\n
          \n
          > There’s no “reimagining” needed here. People don’t need to develop a new consciousness of public space.\n
          \n
          Those are very much spotwork as per slowing down cars. They work for that spot, yes. It is however absolutely not hard to accelerate a car again. This is a good idea to slow people down before a busy or a school crossing or something, the third picture especially is just going to lead to slow down / wait -&gt; mash gas pedal\n
          \n
          > We do not live in a country that is utterly obsessed with cars like america.\n
          \n
          True, but also nigh about the lowest bar to clear right after like Saudi Arabia.\n
          \n
          > There are zero political barriers to this, the only barrier is the profit/revenue barrier of the traffic camera obsessed crowd.\n
          \n
          And you accuse me of living in some fantasy reality?\n
          \n
          > In every town, in every village, in every city. Outisde every school. In every residential area. All over the country.\n
          \n
          Same, could find similar features here by looking out my old apartments window. Hell, do you one better than that, we have shit like this\n
          \n
          ![](https://hexbear.net/pictrs/image/da817aa1-0f08-452f-9f76-95587ddeb3e0.png)\n
          \n
          Sorry for the grainy pictures, didn’t wanna spend that much time on google. Now that’s a road you can’t speed on, on account of many chicanes and other built up enviroments, not just the single one and then it’s open road before and after.\n
          \n
          Doesn’t mean the rest of it isn’t incredibly car brained and hostile, and as such, transportation by foot or cycling sucks major ass.\n
          \n
          If your vision of not being carbrained is “do better than the USA”, yeah, you’re there, but that shouldn’t be the end goal
          """
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
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    +slug: "Speed-camera-cut-down-for-second-time-in-Cornwall"
    +title: "Speed camera cut down for second time in Cornwall"
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    +body: "It’s insane the lengths that some people will go to save a few seconds on their commute, while also endangering others."
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        +body: "I mean so what’s to be done then. I agree on “redesign pretty much every street or road” but like, until then, it’s just a great big free for all?"
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
        +body: """
          > The US, for instance, doesn’t have speed cameras\n
          \n
          That’s just straight up wrong.
          """
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
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          date: 2024-01-07 12:01:02.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 288397
      }
      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2393 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
        +body: "Speaking from germany, 33 in a 30 wouldn’t even trip the speed cams here. Earliest infraction is basically doing 6mph over on a 30mph road, which would come at 50€ fine. We apparently also have 50 times less speed cameras and it absolutely does not stop people from fucking malding over them. They have to be designed bulletproof here now and even those still get regularly blown up. None of the points you raise change anything about it, because the core issue is people are terminally car brained"
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
          "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Saff@lemmy.ml"
        ]
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          date: 2024-01-07 15:15:31.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 288725
      }
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023}
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2035 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: """
          > Why not?\n
          \n
          Because that’s hardly what can be considered a realistic solution. Again, not against it, but what, are you gonna close down like 90% of roads? Only some of them, if so, which ones, and how is stuff handled on the ones that remain open?
          """
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:42:56.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 289649
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: """
          > just roads that “require” speed cameras.\n
          \n
          So when’s that the case or not
          """
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:58:47.0 +01:00
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2092
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
        +body: "It’s a bad TL;DR but they do lay out why it’s illegal"
        +lang: "en"
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          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
          "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
        ]
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          date: 2024-01-07 20:56:29.0 +01:00
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      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2351
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2347 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
        +body: "What’s your usual transportation method?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2024-01-08 17:03:55.0 +01:00
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
          "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
        ]
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        -id: 291985
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          date: 2024-01-08 17:03:55.0 +01:00
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      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2327
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2333 …}
        +body: """
          > You want people to actually slow down? Redesign the road.\n
          \n
          I’ve posed this question elsewhere in this thread and: what until then? Like what do you do until a good, what, 50 - 90% of road depending on criteria, is redesigned?
          """
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          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
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        -id: 291989
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      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2143
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        +body: """
          > Croydon council responded to FOI request stating it costs £2.5-£3.5k to install traffic islands. The cost of a speed camera installation on the other hand is £85,000 according to Bedford Council, with a £5000 annual upkeep cost.\n
          \n
          Croydon cites average cost for roughly such an action at 2,5k - 3,5k in a denial of the FOI request which means there’s pretty much no way to know how much it actually costs depending on what they calculate the average on and if you have any idea about the cost of public works that number should strike you as very, very oddly low.\n
          \n
          Wiltshire government [here](https://www.wiltshire.gov.uk/article/1281/Costs-of-highway-works) cites about 45.000k for a traffic island narrowing a road to one lane, all in all.\n
          \n
          The source you cite for the cameras, however, puts those costs for 2 cameras, so 42,500 a pop / 2500 upkeep annual, albeit with returns via fines obviously.
          """
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
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        +"title": 291995
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2051
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        +body: """
          > The process and length of time it takes for either option are practically the same.\n
          \n
          Sure, but you’re arguing for like instant speed camera abolishment or destruction here, aye?\n
          \n
          > Not to mention a traffic island costs like £3k while a camera costs £85k (guess why they pick the camera despite the price).\n
          \n
          Dunno if you got to that one already but I’ve did a reply pointing out where you’re a bit off there
          """
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      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2104
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        +body: """
          You can just say yes, you don’t have to couch this shit in a good WKUK skit.\n
          \n
          Do they do harm to the poor that are on bicycles, or walking, then?
          """
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
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        -id: 292004
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        +"title": 292004
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2118
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        +body: """
          > Having been to court twice for online related stuff I will absolutely couch this shit.\n
          \n
          Fair, I meant it more on “don’t do it on my accord”\n
          \n
          > I do not see how that question is doing anything but attempting some sort of gotcha or accusation that these people\n
          \n
          Your these people just seems to have some very oddly drawn lines is the heart of it. It does include poor drivers, to whom speed cameras are a problem and not that much of a solution, it does not seem to include poor people not in a car, who profit from this. My FALGSOC doesn’t have speed cameras in it - who’s would - but it’s a long way from here to there.\n
          \n
          > deserve to be fucked over instead of have real designs that don’t result in their lives being made harder. It seems like spite to me.\n
          \n
          This is running on the assumption that I think people deserve to be fucked over for speeding, and that’s the main motivation. Sure, some of them, but that’s not the kind of distinction a speed cam could make on account of how it works. I’d very much be open to them not issuing fines but other punishments - as appropiate - to not make them so classist. Loss of driving license, if you really, really fuck up in a sports car that gets impounded or such, but I’ll concede, even that is far out from today, but just to point it out,\n
          \n
          My point here is that for every one it fucks over, it helps other people not being fucked over, because it does do something against speeding. My line of reasoning for speed cams is not that it fucks people over, it’s that it helps people. You wanna focus on the first part, I’m trying to get you to see the issue is more complex than that, at least if you include people outside of cars in your consideration. They’re not a good solution, by any means, again, I assume our optimal way of solving it is quite similar. For the meantime though, the fuck else do you do? Just abandon all traffic enforcement until all the roads get fixed? So what, 20 years of being vulnerable road users being even more endangered than now?
          """
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          date: 2024-01-08 21:51:17.0 +01:00
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          > A negative in the short term leads to a longterm positive.\n
          \n
          I do not want to die a martyr to the fight against traffic cams.\n
          \n
          > Also I see no other method of doing this. If you go to the council and say “I want to replace this highly profitable traffic camera making hundreds of thousands per year with a traffic island that will make no money at all” the decision that any team will make internally is obvious.\n
          \n
          That kind of poses the second question as to what, in the interim, will be cut as per budget, but that’s a sidenote. I guarantee you without change far reaching enough to societally gain a new understanding of public space and roads, when the last speed cam is dismantled you’ll find all the roads still suck ass and will not be redesigned. Once you have the change so far reaching that you can reunderstand basically every road, yeah, then you don’t need the traffic cams anymore and they can be dismantled.
          """
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        +"title": 293739
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2322
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        +body: """
          > Meanwhile, in the real world we must be concerned with actually viable change.\n
          \n
          Real Zach Brannigan hours here on account of “It might get a lot of other people killed but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make”\n
          \n
          > You are inventing a fantasy reality to suit an anti car obsession. One I share, car reduction is good. However you’re being a tit now.\n
          \n
          What part of this is fantasy. Like where do you see the political potential for a nigh nationwide road redesign.
          """
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2294
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        +body: """
          > This is the weird fantasy part I was referring to. It’s like, just nonsense. It comes off like an american attitude being ported to the UK with absolutely no adaptation whatsoever to British conditions. Our conditions are nothing like america. Getting rid of cameras and getting traffic calming measures installed instead is not particularly difficult, it’s about the same. This idea of complete and widespread reinterpretation of public space? It doesn’t make sense here.\n
          \n
          I’m german tho.\n
          \n
          > By American standards it would be considered idyllic.\n
          \n
          As such, I do not believe american standards as per roads are anything to go by\n
          \n
          > Parts of the road already have traffic calming measures.\n
          \n
          That’s not really gonna stop anybody from speeding down the remaining lane(s) because they’re still very wide. It’s good for pedestrians, probably, don’t get me wrong, doesn’t really fight the speeding problem at all.\n
          \n
          > This is very easily expanded upon with the addition of chicanes, which are in wide use (hundreds of thousands) across the country.\n
          \n
          These do\n
          \n
          > There’s no “reimagining” needed here. People don’t need to develop a new consciousness of public space.\n
          \n
          Those are very much spotwork as per slowing down cars. They work for that spot, yes. It is however absolutely not hard to accelerate a car again. This is a good idea to slow people down before a busy or a school crossing or something, the third picture especially is just going to lead to slow down / wait -&gt; mash gas pedal\n
          \n
          > We do not live in a country that is utterly obsessed with cars like america.\n
          \n
          True, but also nigh about the lowest bar to clear right after like Saudi Arabia.\n
          \n
          > There are zero political barriers to this, the only barrier is the profit/revenue barrier of the traffic camera obsessed crowd.\n
          \n
          And you accuse me of living in some fantasy reality?\n
          \n
          > In every town, in every village, in every city. Outisde every school. In every residential area. All over the country.\n
          \n
          Same, could find similar features here by looking out my old apartments window. Hell, do you one better than that, we have shit like this\n
          \n
          ![](https://hexbear.net/pictrs/image/da817aa1-0f08-452f-9f76-95587ddeb3e0.png)\n
          \n
          Sorry for the grainy pictures, didn’t wanna spend that much time on google. Now that’s a road you can’t speed on, on account of many chicanes and other built up enviroments, not just the single one and then it’s open road before and after.\n
          \n
          Doesn’t mean the rest of it isn’t incredibly car brained and hostile, and as such, transportation by foot or cycling sucks major ass.\n
          \n
          If your vision of not being carbrained is “do better than the USA”, yeah, you’re there, but that shouldn’t be the end goal
          """
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     …2
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  +body: "I’m not sure if you’re being serious here"
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
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    +slug: "Speed-camera-cut-down-for-second-time-in-Cornwall"
    +title: "Speed camera cut down for second time in Cornwall"
    +url: "https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj5g1elz57qo"
    +body: "It’s insane the lengths that some people will go to save a few seconds on their commute, while also endangering others."
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    +children: [
      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
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        +body: "I mean so what’s to be done then. I agree on “redesign pretty much every street or road” but like, until then, it’s just a great big free for all?"
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
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        +body: """
          > The US, for instance, doesn’t have speed cameras\n
          \n
          That’s just straight up wrong.
          """
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2393 …}
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        +body: "Speaking from germany, 33 in a 30 wouldn’t even trip the speed cams here. Earliest infraction is basically doing 6mph over on a 30mph road, which would come at 50€ fine. We apparently also have 50 times less speed cameras and it absolutely does not stop people from fucking malding over them. They have to be designed bulletproof here now and even those still get regularly blown up. None of the points you raise change anything about it, because the core issue is people are terminally car brained"
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          date: 2024-01-07 15:15:31.0 +01:00
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
          "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Saff@lemmy.ml"
        ]
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          date: 2024-01-07 15:15:31.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 288725
      }
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023}
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2035 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: """
          > Why not?\n
          \n
          Because that’s hardly what can be considered a realistic solution. Again, not against it, but what, are you gonna close down like 90% of roads? Only some of them, if so, which ones, and how is stuff handled on the ones that remain open?
          """
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:42:56.0 +01:00
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:42:56.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 289649
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: """
          > just roads that “require” speed cameras.\n
          \n
          So when’s that the case or not
          """
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          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:58:47.0 +01:00
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2092
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
        +body: "It’s a bad TL;DR but they do lay out why it’s illegal"
        +lang: "en"
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          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
          "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
        ]
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          date: 2024-01-07 20:56:29.0 +01:00
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      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2351
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2347 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
        +body: "What’s your usual transportation method?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2024-01-08 17:03:55.0 +01:00
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
          "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
        ]
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          date: 2024-01-08 17:03:55.0 +01:00
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      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2327
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2333 …}
        +body: """
          > You want people to actually slow down? Redesign the road.\n
          \n
          I’ve posed this question elsewhere in this thread and: what until then? Like what do you do until a good, what, 50 - 90% of road depending on criteria, is redesigned?
          """
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        -id: 291989
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          date: 2024-01-08 17:07:53.0 +01:00
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      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2143
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        +body: """
          > Croydon council responded to FOI request stating it costs £2.5-£3.5k to install traffic islands. The cost of a speed camera installation on the other hand is £85,000 according to Bedford Council, with a £5000 annual upkeep cost.\n
          \n
          Croydon cites average cost for roughly such an action at 2,5k - 3,5k in a denial of the FOI request which means there’s pretty much no way to know how much it actually costs depending on what they calculate the average on and if you have any idea about the cost of public works that number should strike you as very, very oddly low.\n
          \n
          Wiltshire government [here](https://www.wiltshire.gov.uk/article/1281/Costs-of-highway-works) cites about 45.000k for a traffic island narrowing a road to one lane, all in all.\n
          \n
          The source you cite for the cameras, however, puts those costs for 2 cameras, so 42,500 a pop / 2500 upkeep annual, albeit with returns via fines obviously.
          """
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        +"title": 291995
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2051
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        +body: """
          > The process and length of time it takes for either option are practically the same.\n
          \n
          Sure, but you’re arguing for like instant speed camera abolishment or destruction here, aye?\n
          \n
          > Not to mention a traffic island costs like £3k while a camera costs £85k (guess why they pick the camera despite the price).\n
          \n
          Dunno if you got to that one already but I’ve did a reply pointing out where you’re a bit off there
          """
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      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2104
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        +body: """
          You can just say yes, you don’t have to couch this shit in a good WKUK skit.\n
          \n
          Do they do harm to the poor that are on bicycles, or walking, then?
          """
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2118
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        +body: """
          > Having been to court twice for online related stuff I will absolutely couch this shit.\n
          \n
          Fair, I meant it more on “don’t do it on my accord”\n
          \n
          > I do not see how that question is doing anything but attempting some sort of gotcha or accusation that these people\n
          \n
          Your these people just seems to have some very oddly drawn lines is the heart of it. It does include poor drivers, to whom speed cameras are a problem and not that much of a solution, it does not seem to include poor people not in a car, who profit from this. My FALGSOC doesn’t have speed cameras in it - who’s would - but it’s a long way from here to there.\n
          \n
          > deserve to be fucked over instead of have real designs that don’t result in their lives being made harder. It seems like spite to me.\n
          \n
          This is running on the assumption that I think people deserve to be fucked over for speeding, and that’s the main motivation. Sure, some of them, but that’s not the kind of distinction a speed cam could make on account of how it works. I’d very much be open to them not issuing fines but other punishments - as appropiate - to not make them so classist. Loss of driving license, if you really, really fuck up in a sports car that gets impounded or such, but I’ll concede, even that is far out from today, but just to point it out,\n
          \n
          My point here is that for every one it fucks over, it helps other people not being fucked over, because it does do something against speeding. My line of reasoning for speed cams is not that it fucks people over, it’s that it helps people. You wanna focus on the first part, I’m trying to get you to see the issue is more complex than that, at least if you include people outside of cars in your consideration. They’re not a good solution, by any means, again, I assume our optimal way of solving it is quite similar. For the meantime though, the fuck else do you do? Just abandon all traffic enforcement until all the roads get fixed? So what, 20 years of being vulnerable road users being even more endangered than now?
          """
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          date: 2024-01-08 21:51:17.0 +01:00
        }
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2229
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          > A negative in the short term leads to a longterm positive.\n
          \n
          I do not want to die a martyr to the fight against traffic cams.\n
          \n
          > Also I see no other method of doing this. If you go to the council and say “I want to replace this highly profitable traffic camera making hundreds of thousands per year with a traffic island that will make no money at all” the decision that any team will make internally is obvious.\n
          \n
          That kind of poses the second question as to what, in the interim, will be cut as per budget, but that’s a sidenote. I guarantee you without change far reaching enough to societally gain a new understanding of public space and roads, when the last speed cam is dismantled you’ll find all the roads still suck ass and will not be redesigned. Once you have the change so far reaching that you can reunderstand basically every road, yeah, then you don’t need the traffic cams anymore and they can be dismantled.
          """
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2322
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        +body: """
          > Meanwhile, in the real world we must be concerned with actually viable change.\n
          \n
          Real Zach Brannigan hours here on account of “It might get a lot of other people killed but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make”\n
          \n
          > You are inventing a fantasy reality to suit an anti car obsession. One I share, car reduction is good. However you’re being a tit now.\n
          \n
          What part of this is fantasy. Like where do you see the political potential for a nigh nationwide road redesign.
          """
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2294
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        +body: """
          > This is the weird fantasy part I was referring to. It’s like, just nonsense. It comes off like an american attitude being ported to the UK with absolutely no adaptation whatsoever to British conditions. Our conditions are nothing like america. Getting rid of cameras and getting traffic calming measures installed instead is not particularly difficult, it’s about the same. This idea of complete and widespread reinterpretation of public space? It doesn’t make sense here.\n
          \n
          I’m german tho.\n
          \n
          > By American standards it would be considered idyllic.\n
          \n
          As such, I do not believe american standards as per roads are anything to go by\n
          \n
          > Parts of the road already have traffic calming measures.\n
          \n
          That’s not really gonna stop anybody from speeding down the remaining lane(s) because they’re still very wide. It’s good for pedestrians, probably, don’t get me wrong, doesn’t really fight the speeding problem at all.\n
          \n
          > This is very easily expanded upon with the addition of chicanes, which are in wide use (hundreds of thousands) across the country.\n
          \n
          These do\n
          \n
          > There’s no “reimagining” needed here. People don’t need to develop a new consciousness of public space.\n
          \n
          Those are very much spotwork as per slowing down cars. They work for that spot, yes. It is however absolutely not hard to accelerate a car again. This is a good idea to slow people down before a busy or a school crossing or something, the third picture especially is just going to lead to slow down / wait -&gt; mash gas pedal\n
          \n
          > We do not live in a country that is utterly obsessed with cars like america.\n
          \n
          True, but also nigh about the lowest bar to clear right after like Saudi Arabia.\n
          \n
          > There are zero political barriers to this, the only barrier is the profit/revenue barrier of the traffic camera obsessed crowd.\n
          \n
          And you accuse me of living in some fantasy reality?\n
          \n
          > In every town, in every village, in every city. Outisde every school. In every residential area. All over the country.\n
          \n
          Same, could find similar features here by looking out my old apartments window. Hell, do you one better than that, we have shit like this\n
          \n
          ![](https://hexbear.net/pictrs/image/da817aa1-0f08-452f-9f76-95587ddeb3e0.png)\n
          \n
          Sorry for the grainy pictures, didn’t wanna spend that much time on google. Now that’s a road you can’t speed on, on account of many chicanes and other built up enviroments, not just the single one and then it’s open road before and after.\n
          \n
          Doesn’t mean the rest of it isn’t incredibly car brained and hostile, and as such, transportation by foot or cycling sucks major ass.\n
          \n
          If your vision of not being carbrained is “do better than the USA”, yeah, you’re there, but that shouldn’t be the end goal
          """
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     …2
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  +body: "I’m not sure if you’re being serious here"
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
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    +slug: "Speed-camera-cut-down-for-second-time-in-Cornwall"
    +title: "Speed camera cut down for second time in Cornwall"
    +url: "https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj5g1elz57qo"
    +body: "It’s insane the lengths that some people will go to save a few seconds on their commute, while also endangering others."
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      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
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        +body: "I mean so what’s to be done then. I agree on “redesign pretty much every street or road” but like, until then, it’s just a great big free for all?"
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
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        +body: """
          > The US, for instance, doesn’t have speed cameras\n
          \n
          That’s just straight up wrong.
          """
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
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        +body: "Speaking from germany, 33 in a 30 wouldn’t even trip the speed cams here. Earliest infraction is basically doing 6mph over on a 30mph road, which would come at 50€ fine. We apparently also have 50 times less speed cameras and it absolutely does not stop people from fucking malding over them. They have to be designed bulletproof here now and even those still get regularly blown up. None of the points you raise change anything about it, because the core issue is people are terminally car brained"
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        -bodyTs: "'30':7 '30mph':25 '33':4 '50':31,37 '6mph':21 'absolut':44 'also':35 'anyth':77 'appar':34 'basic':19 'blown':68 'brain':89 'bulletproof':59 'cam':14 'camera':41 'car':88 'chang':76 'come':29 'core':82 'design':58 'earliest':16 'even':10,63 'fine':32 'fuck':50 'germani':3 'get':66 'infract':17 'issu':83 'less':39 'mald':51 'none':70 'peopl':48,85 'point':73 'rais':75 'regular':67 'road':26 'speak':1 'speed':13,40 'still':65 'stop':47 'termin':87 'time':38 'trip':11 'would':28 'wouldn':8"
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          date: 2024-01-07 15:15:31.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 288725
      }
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2030 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: "I’m not sure if you’re being serious here"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 3
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1704651909 {#1403
          date: 2024-01-07 19:25:09.0 +01:00
        }
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2032 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2024 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2018 …}
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        -id: 289601
        -bodyTs: "'m':2 're':7 'serious':9 'sure':4"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1704651909 {#2019
          date: 2024-01-07 19:25:09.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 289601
      }
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027}
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2062 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: """
          > just roads that “require” speed cameras.\n
          \n
          So when’s that the case or not
          """
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2081 …}
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:58:47.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 289695
      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2092
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2094 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
        +body: "It’s a bad TL;DR but they do lay out why it’s illegal"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
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          date: 2024-01-07 20:56:29.0 +01:00
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
          "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2241 …}
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        -id: 289800
        -bodyTs: "'bad':4 'dr':6 'illeg':15 'lay':10 'tl':5"
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          date: 2024-01-07 20:56:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 289800
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2351
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2347 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
        +body: "What’s your usual transportation method?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
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        +lastActive: DateTime @1704729835 {#2348
          date: 2024-01-08 17:03:55.0 +01:00
        }
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
          "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2332 …}
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        -id: 291985
        -bodyTs: "'method':6 'transport':5 'usual':4"
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          date: 2024-01-08 17:03:55.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 291985
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2327
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2329 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2333 …}
        +body: """
          > You want people to actually slow down? Redesign the road.\n
          \n
          I’ve posed this question elsewhere in this thread and: what until then? Like what do you do until a good, what, 50 - 90% of road depending on criteria, is redesigned?
          """
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
        ]
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        -id: 291989
        -bodyTs: "'50':33 '90':34 'actual':5 'criteria':39 'depend':37 'elsewher':16 'good':31 'like':24 'peopl':3 'pose':13 'question':15 'redesign':8,41 'road':10,36 'slow':6 'thread':19 've':12 'want':2"
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          date: 2024-01-08 17:07:53.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 291989
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2143
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2135 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2333 …}
        +body: """
          > Croydon council responded to FOI request stating it costs £2.5-£3.5k to install traffic islands. The cost of a speed camera installation on the other hand is £85,000 according to Bedford Council, with a £5000 annual upkeep cost.\n
          \n
          Croydon cites average cost for roughly such an action at 2,5k - 3,5k in a denial of the FOI request which means there’s pretty much no way to know how much it actually costs depending on what they calculate the average on and if you have any idea about the cost of public works that number should strike you as very, very oddly low.\n
          \n
          Wiltshire government [here](https://www.wiltshire.gov.uk/article/1281/Costs-of-highway-works) cites about 45.000k for a traffic island narrowing a road to one lane, all in all.\n
          \n
          The source you cite for the cameras, however, puts those costs for 2 cameras, so 42,500 a pop / 2500 upkeep annual, albeit with returns via fines obviously.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2024-01-08 17:33:32.0 +01:00
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
        ]
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        -id: 291995
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          date: 2024-01-08 17:33:32.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 291995
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2051
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2056 …}
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        +body: """
          > The process and length of time it takes for either option are practically the same.\n
          \n
          Sure, but you’re arguing for like instant speed camera abolishment or destruction here, aye?\n
          \n
          > Not to mention a traffic island costs like £3k while a camera costs £85k (guess why they pick the camera despite the price).\n
          \n
          Dunno if you got to that one already but I’ve did a reply pointing out where you’re a bit off there
          """
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
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        -id: 292001
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          date: 2024-01-08 18:26:47.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 292001
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2104
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: """
          You can just say yes, you don’t have to couch this shit in a good WKUK skit.\n
          \n
          Do they do harm to the poor that are on bicycles, or walking, then?
          """
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          date: 2024-01-08 18:56:34.0 +01:00
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
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        -id: 292004
        -bodyTs: "'bicycl':29 'couch':11 'good':16 'harm':22 'poor':25 'say':4 'shit':13 'skit':18 'walk':31 'wkuk':17 'yes':5"
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          date: 2024-01-08 18:56:34.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 292004
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2118
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2117 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2333 …}
        +body: """
          > Having been to court twice for online related stuff I will absolutely couch this shit.\n
          \n
          Fair, I meant it more on “don’t do it on my accord”\n
          \n
          > I do not see how that question is doing anything but attempting some sort of gotcha or accusation that these people\n
          \n
          Your these people just seems to have some very oddly drawn lines is the heart of it. It does include poor drivers, to whom speed cameras are a problem and not that much of a solution, it does not seem to include poor people not in a car, who profit from this. My FALGSOC doesn’t have speed cameras in it - who’s would - but it’s a long way from here to there.\n
          \n
          > deserve to be fucked over instead of have real designs that don’t result in their lives being made harder. It seems like spite to me.\n
          \n
          This is running on the assumption that I think people deserve to be fucked over for speeding, and that’s the main motivation. Sure, some of them, but that’s not the kind of distinction a speed cam could make on account of how it works. I’d very much be open to them not issuing fines but other punishments - as appropiate - to not make them so classist. Loss of driving license, if you really, really fuck up in a sports car that gets impounded or such, but I’ll concede, even that is far out from today, but just to point it out,\n
          \n
          My point here is that for every one it fucks over, it helps other people not being fucked over, because it does do something against speeding. My line of reasoning for speed cams is not that it fucks people over, it’s that it helps people. You wanna focus on the first part, I’m trying to get you to see the issue is more complex than that, at least if you include people outside of cars in your consideration. They’re not a good solution, by any means, again, I assume our optimal way of solving it is quite similar. For the meantime though, the fuck else do you do? Just abandon all traffic enforcement until all the roads get fixed? So what, 20 years of being vulnerable road users being even more endangered than now?
          """
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
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        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2121 …}
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        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://hexbear.net/comment/4459534"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1704747077 {#2114
          date: 2024-01-08 21:51:17.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 292030
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2229
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2228 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2333 …}
        +body: """
          > A negative in the short term leads to a longterm positive.\n
          \n
          I do not want to die a martyr to the fight against traffic cams.\n
          \n
          > Also I see no other method of doing this. If you go to the council and say “I want to replace this highly profitable traffic camera making hundreds of thousands per year with a traffic island that will make no money at all” the decision that any team will make internally is obvious.\n
          \n
          That kind of poses the second question as to what, in the interim, will be cut as per budget, but that’s a sidenote. I guarantee you without change far reaching enough to societally gain a new understanding of public space and roads, when the last speed cam is dismantled you’ll find all the roads still suck ass and will not be redesigned. Once you have the change so far reaching that you can reunderstand basically every road, yeah, then you don’t need the traffic cams anymore and they can be dismantled.
          """
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2322
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          > Meanwhile, in the real world we must be concerned with actually viable change.\n
          \n
          Real Zach Brannigan hours here on account of “It might get a lot of other people killed but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make”\n
          \n
          > You are inventing a fantasy reality to suit an anti car obsession. One I share, car reduction is good. However you’re being a tit now.\n
          \n
          What part of this is fantasy. Like where do you see the political potential for a nigh nationwide road redesign.
          """
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        +body: """
          > This is the weird fantasy part I was referring to. It’s like, just nonsense. It comes off like an american attitude being ported to the UK with absolutely no adaptation whatsoever to British conditions. Our conditions are nothing like america. Getting rid of cameras and getting traffic calming measures installed instead is not particularly difficult, it’s about the same. This idea of complete and widespread reinterpretation of public space? It doesn’t make sense here.\n
          \n
          I’m german tho.\n
          \n
          > By American standards it would be considered idyllic.\n
          \n
          As such, I do not believe american standards as per roads are anything to go by\n
          \n
          > Parts of the road already have traffic calming measures.\n
          \n
          That’s not really gonna stop anybody from speeding down the remaining lane(s) because they’re still very wide. It’s good for pedestrians, probably, don’t get me wrong, doesn’t really fight the speeding problem at all.\n
          \n
          > This is very easily expanded upon with the addition of chicanes, which are in wide use (hundreds of thousands) across the country.\n
          \n
          These do\n
          \n
          > There’s no “reimagining” needed here. People don’t need to develop a new consciousness of public space.\n
          \n
          Those are very much spotwork as per slowing down cars. They work for that spot, yes. It is however absolutely not hard to accelerate a car again. This is a good idea to slow people down before a busy or a school crossing or something, the third picture especially is just going to lead to slow down / wait -&gt; mash gas pedal\n
          \n
          > We do not live in a country that is utterly obsessed with cars like america.\n
          \n
          True, but also nigh about the lowest bar to clear right after like Saudi Arabia.\n
          \n
          > There are zero political barriers to this, the only barrier is the profit/revenue barrier of the traffic camera obsessed crowd.\n
          \n
          And you accuse me of living in some fantasy reality?\n
          \n
          > In every town, in every village, in every city. Outisde every school. In every residential area. All over the country.\n
          \n
          Same, could find similar features here by looking out my old apartments window. Hell, do you one better than that, we have shit like this\n
          \n
          ![](https://hexbear.net/pictrs/image/da817aa1-0f08-452f-9f76-95587ddeb3e0.png)\n
          \n
          Sorry for the grainy pictures, didn’t wanna spend that much time on google. Now that’s a road you can’t speed on, on account of many chicanes and other built up enviroments, not just the single one and then it’s open road before and after.\n
          \n
          Doesn’t mean the rest of it isn’t incredibly car brained and hostile, and as such, transportation by foot or cycling sucks major ass.\n
          \n
          If your vision of not being carbrained is “do better than the USA”, yeah, you’re there, but that shouldn’t be the end goal
          """
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    > Why not?\n
    \n
    Because that’s hardly what can be considered a realistic solution. Again, not against it, but what, are you gonna close down like 90% of roads? Only some of them, if so, which ones, and how is stuff handled on the ones that remain open?
    """
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
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    +slug: "Speed-camera-cut-down-for-second-time-in-Cornwall"
    +title: "Speed camera cut down for second time in Cornwall"
    +url: "https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj5g1elz57qo"
    +body: "It’s insane the lengths that some people will go to save a few seconds on their commute, while also endangering others."
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      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
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        +body: "I mean so what’s to be done then. I agree on “redesign pretty much every street or road” but like, until then, it’s just a great big free for all?"
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
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        +body: """
          > The US, for instance, doesn’t have speed cameras\n
          \n
          That’s just straight up wrong.
          """
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        +body: "Speaking from germany, 33 in a 30 wouldn’t even trip the speed cams here. Earliest infraction is basically doing 6mph over on a 30mph road, which would come at 50€ fine. We apparently also have 50 times less speed cameras and it absolutely does not stop people from fucking malding over them. They have to be designed bulletproof here now and even those still get regularly blown up. None of the points you raise change anything about it, because the core issue is people are terminally car brained"
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        +body: "I’m not sure if you’re being serious here"
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:25:09.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 289601
      }
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027}
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
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        +body: """
          > just roads that “require” speed cameras.\n
          \n
          So when’s that the case or not
          """
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          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2092
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        +body: "It’s a bad TL;DR but they do lay out why it’s illegal"
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          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
          "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
        ]
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      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2351
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        +body: "What’s your usual transportation method?"
        +lang: "en"
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          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
        ]
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      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2327
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        +body: """
          > You want people to actually slow down? Redesign the road.\n
          \n
          I’ve posed this question elsewhere in this thread and: what until then? Like what do you do until a good, what, 50 - 90% of road depending on criteria, is redesigned?
          """
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      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2143
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        +body: """
          > Croydon council responded to FOI request stating it costs £2.5-£3.5k to install traffic islands. The cost of a speed camera installation on the other hand is £85,000 according to Bedford Council, with a £5000 annual upkeep cost.\n
          \n
          Croydon cites average cost for roughly such an action at 2,5k - 3,5k in a denial of the FOI request which means there’s pretty much no way to know how much it actually costs depending on what they calculate the average on and if you have any idea about the cost of public works that number should strike you as very, very oddly low.\n
          \n
          Wiltshire government [here](https://www.wiltshire.gov.uk/article/1281/Costs-of-highway-works) cites about 45.000k for a traffic island narrowing a road to one lane, all in all.\n
          \n
          The source you cite for the cameras, however, puts those costs for 2 cameras, so 42,500 a pop / 2500 upkeep annual, albeit with returns via fines obviously.
          """
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      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2051
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          > The process and length of time it takes for either option are practically the same.\n
          \n
          Sure, but you’re arguing for like instant speed camera abolishment or destruction here, aye?\n
          \n
          > Not to mention a traffic island costs like £3k while a camera costs £85k (guess why they pick the camera despite the price).\n
          \n
          Dunno if you got to that one already but I’ve did a reply pointing out where you’re a bit off there
          """
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      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2104
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        +body: """
          You can just say yes, you don’t have to couch this shit in a good WKUK skit.\n
          \n
          Do they do harm to the poor that are on bicycles, or walking, then?
          """
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2118
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        +body: """
          > Having been to court twice for online related stuff I will absolutely couch this shit.\n
          \n
          Fair, I meant it more on “don’t do it on my accord”\n
          \n
          > I do not see how that question is doing anything but attempting some sort of gotcha or accusation that these people\n
          \n
          Your these people just seems to have some very oddly drawn lines is the heart of it. It does include poor drivers, to whom speed cameras are a problem and not that much of a solution, it does not seem to include poor people not in a car, who profit from this. My FALGSOC doesn’t have speed cameras in it - who’s would - but it’s a long way from here to there.\n
          \n
          > deserve to be fucked over instead of have real designs that don’t result in their lives being made harder. It seems like spite to me.\n
          \n
          This is running on the assumption that I think people deserve to be fucked over for speeding, and that’s the main motivation. Sure, some of them, but that’s not the kind of distinction a speed cam could make on account of how it works. I’d very much be open to them not issuing fines but other punishments - as appropiate - to not make them so classist. Loss of driving license, if you really, really fuck up in a sports car that gets impounded or such, but I’ll concede, even that is far out from today, but just to point it out,\n
          \n
          My point here is that for every one it fucks over, it helps other people not being fucked over, because it does do something against speeding. My line of reasoning for speed cams is not that it fucks people over, it’s that it helps people. You wanna focus on the first part, I’m trying to get you to see the issue is more complex than that, at least if you include people outside of cars in your consideration. They’re not a good solution, by any means, again, I assume our optimal way of solving it is quite similar. For the meantime though, the fuck else do you do? Just abandon all traffic enforcement until all the roads get fixed? So what, 20 years of being vulnerable road users being even more endangered than now?
          """
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2229
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        +body: """
          > A negative in the short term leads to a longterm positive.\n
          \n
          I do not want to die a martyr to the fight against traffic cams.\n
          \n
          > Also I see no other method of doing this. If you go to the council and say “I want to replace this highly profitable traffic camera making hundreds of thousands per year with a traffic island that will make no money at all” the decision that any team will make internally is obvious.\n
          \n
          That kind of poses the second question as to what, in the interim, will be cut as per budget, but that’s a sidenote. I guarantee you without change far reaching enough to societally gain a new understanding of public space and roads, when the last speed cam is dismantled you’ll find all the roads still suck ass and will not be redesigned. Once you have the change so far reaching that you can reunderstand basically every road, yeah, then you don’t need the traffic cams anymore and they can be dismantled.
          """
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          date: 2024-01-09 17:36:19.0 +01:00
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2322
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        +body: """
          > Meanwhile, in the real world we must be concerned with actually viable change.\n
          \n
          Real Zach Brannigan hours here on account of “It might get a lot of other people killed but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make”\n
          \n
          > You are inventing a fantasy reality to suit an anti car obsession. One I share, car reduction is good. However you’re being a tit now.\n
          \n
          What part of this is fantasy. Like where do you see the political potential for a nigh nationwide road redesign.
          """
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2294
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        +body: """
          > This is the weird fantasy part I was referring to. It’s like, just nonsense. It comes off like an american attitude being ported to the UK with absolutely no adaptation whatsoever to British conditions. Our conditions are nothing like america. Getting rid of cameras and getting traffic calming measures installed instead is not particularly difficult, it’s about the same. This idea of complete and widespread reinterpretation of public space? It doesn’t make sense here.\n
          \n
          I’m german tho.\n
          \n
          > By American standards it would be considered idyllic.\n
          \n
          As such, I do not believe american standards as per roads are anything to go by\n
          \n
          > Parts of the road already have traffic calming measures.\n
          \n
          That’s not really gonna stop anybody from speeding down the remaining lane(s) because they’re still very wide. It’s good for pedestrians, probably, don’t get me wrong, doesn’t really fight the speeding problem at all.\n
          \n
          > This is very easily expanded upon with the addition of chicanes, which are in wide use (hundreds of thousands) across the country.\n
          \n
          These do\n
          \n
          > There’s no “reimagining” needed here. People don’t need to develop a new consciousness of public space.\n
          \n
          Those are very much spotwork as per slowing down cars. They work for that spot, yes. It is however absolutely not hard to accelerate a car again. This is a good idea to slow people down before a busy or a school crossing or something, the third picture especially is just going to lead to slow down / wait -&gt; mash gas pedal\n
          \n
          > We do not live in a country that is utterly obsessed with cars like america.\n
          \n
          True, but also nigh about the lowest bar to clear right after like Saudi Arabia.\n
          \n
          > There are zero political barriers to this, the only barrier is the profit/revenue barrier of the traffic camera obsessed crowd.\n
          \n
          And you accuse me of living in some fantasy reality?\n
          \n
          > In every town, in every village, in every city. Outisde every school. In every residential area. All over the country.\n
          \n
          Same, could find similar features here by looking out my old apartments window. Hell, do you one better than that, we have shit like this\n
          \n
          ![](https://hexbear.net/pictrs/image/da817aa1-0f08-452f-9f76-95587ddeb3e0.png)\n
          \n
          Sorry for the grainy pictures, didn’t wanna spend that much time on google. Now that’s a road you can’t speed on, on account of many chicanes and other built up enviroments, not just the single one and then it’s open road before and after.\n
          \n
          Doesn’t mean the rest of it isn’t incredibly car brained and hostile, and as such, transportation by foot or cycling sucks major ass.\n
          \n
          If your vision of not being carbrained is “do better than the USA”, yeah, you’re there, but that shouldn’t be the end goal
          """
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      date: 2024-01-06 13:45:17.0 +01:00
    }
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     …2
  }
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  +body: """
    > Why not?\n
    \n
    Because that’s hardly what can be considered a realistic solution. Again, not against it, but what, are you gonna close down like 90% of roads? Only some of them, if so, which ones, and how is stuff handled on the ones that remain open?
    """
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
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    +slug: "Speed-camera-cut-down-for-second-time-in-Cornwall"
    +title: "Speed camera cut down for second time in Cornwall"
    +url: "https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj5g1elz57qo"
    +body: "It’s insane the lengths that some people will go to save a few seconds on their commute, while also endangering others."
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    +children: [
      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "I mean so what’s to be done then. I agree on “redesign pretty much every street or road” but like, until then, it’s just a great big free for all?"
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2024-01-07 11:43:26.0 +01:00
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
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        +body: """
          > The US, for instance, doesn’t have speed cameras\n
          \n
          That’s just straight up wrong.
          """
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
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        +body: "Speaking from germany, 33 in a 30 wouldn’t even trip the speed cams here. Earliest infraction is basically doing 6mph over on a 30mph road, which would come at 50€ fine. We apparently also have 50 times less speed cameras and it absolutely does not stop people from fucking malding over them. They have to be designed bulletproof here now and even those still get regularly blown up. None of the points you raise change anything about it, because the core issue is people are terminally car brained"
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
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        +body: "I’m not sure if you’re being serious here"
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      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027}
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
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        +body: """
          > just roads that “require” speed cameras.\n
          \n
          So when’s that the case or not
          """
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        +body: "It’s a bad TL;DR but they do lay out why it’s illegal"
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          "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
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      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2351
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        +body: "What’s your usual transportation method?"
        +lang: "en"
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          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
        ]
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      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2327
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        +body: """
          > You want people to actually slow down? Redesign the road.\n
          \n
          I’ve posed this question elsewhere in this thread and: what until then? Like what do you do until a good, what, 50 - 90% of road depending on criteria, is redesigned?
          """
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      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2143
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        +body: """
          > Croydon council responded to FOI request stating it costs £2.5-£3.5k to install traffic islands. The cost of a speed camera installation on the other hand is £85,000 according to Bedford Council, with a £5000 annual upkeep cost.\n
          \n
          Croydon cites average cost for roughly such an action at 2,5k - 3,5k in a denial of the FOI request which means there’s pretty much no way to know how much it actually costs depending on what they calculate the average on and if you have any idea about the cost of public works that number should strike you as very, very oddly low.\n
          \n
          Wiltshire government [here](https://www.wiltshire.gov.uk/article/1281/Costs-of-highway-works) cites about 45.000k for a traffic island narrowing a road to one lane, all in all.\n
          \n
          The source you cite for the cameras, however, puts those costs for 2 cameras, so 42,500 a pop / 2500 upkeep annual, albeit with returns via fines obviously.
          """
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      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2051
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        +body: """
          > The process and length of time it takes for either option are practically the same.\n
          \n
          Sure, but you’re arguing for like instant speed camera abolishment or destruction here, aye?\n
          \n
          > Not to mention a traffic island costs like £3k while a camera costs £85k (guess why they pick the camera despite the price).\n
          \n
          Dunno if you got to that one already but I’ve did a reply pointing out where you’re a bit off there
          """
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      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2104
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        +body: """
          You can just say yes, you don’t have to couch this shit in a good WKUK skit.\n
          \n
          Do they do harm to the poor that are on bicycles, or walking, then?
          """
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2118
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        +body: """
          > Having been to court twice for online related stuff I will absolutely couch this shit.\n
          \n
          Fair, I meant it more on “don’t do it on my accord”\n
          \n
          > I do not see how that question is doing anything but attempting some sort of gotcha or accusation that these people\n
          \n
          Your these people just seems to have some very oddly drawn lines is the heart of it. It does include poor drivers, to whom speed cameras are a problem and not that much of a solution, it does not seem to include poor people not in a car, who profit from this. My FALGSOC doesn’t have speed cameras in it - who’s would - but it’s a long way from here to there.\n
          \n
          > deserve to be fucked over instead of have real designs that don’t result in their lives being made harder. It seems like spite to me.\n
          \n
          This is running on the assumption that I think people deserve to be fucked over for speeding, and that’s the main motivation. Sure, some of them, but that’s not the kind of distinction a speed cam could make on account of how it works. I’d very much be open to them not issuing fines but other punishments - as appropiate - to not make them so classist. Loss of driving license, if you really, really fuck up in a sports car that gets impounded or such, but I’ll concede, even that is far out from today, but just to point it out,\n
          \n
          My point here is that for every one it fucks over, it helps other people not being fucked over, because it does do something against speeding. My line of reasoning for speed cams is not that it fucks people over, it’s that it helps people. You wanna focus on the first part, I’m trying to get you to see the issue is more complex than that, at least if you include people outside of cars in your consideration. They’re not a good solution, by any means, again, I assume our optimal way of solving it is quite similar. For the meantime though, the fuck else do you do? Just abandon all traffic enforcement until all the roads get fixed? So what, 20 years of being vulnerable road users being even more endangered than now?
          """
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2229
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        +body: """
          > A negative in the short term leads to a longterm positive.\n
          \n
          I do not want to die a martyr to the fight against traffic cams.\n
          \n
          > Also I see no other method of doing this. If you go to the council and say “I want to replace this highly profitable traffic camera making hundreds of thousands per year with a traffic island that will make no money at all” the decision that any team will make internally is obvious.\n
          \n
          That kind of poses the second question as to what, in the interim, will be cut as per budget, but that’s a sidenote. I guarantee you without change far reaching enough to societally gain a new understanding of public space and roads, when the last speed cam is dismantled you’ll find all the roads still suck ass and will not be redesigned. Once you have the change so far reaching that you can reunderstand basically every road, yeah, then you don’t need the traffic cams anymore and they can be dismantled.
          """
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2322
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        +body: """
          > Meanwhile, in the real world we must be concerned with actually viable change.\n
          \n
          Real Zach Brannigan hours here on account of “It might get a lot of other people killed but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make”\n
          \n
          > You are inventing a fantasy reality to suit an anti car obsession. One I share, car reduction is good. However you’re being a tit now.\n
          \n
          What part of this is fantasy. Like where do you see the political potential for a nigh nationwide road redesign.
          """
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2294
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        +body: """
          > This is the weird fantasy part I was referring to. It’s like, just nonsense. It comes off like an american attitude being ported to the UK with absolutely no adaptation whatsoever to British conditions. Our conditions are nothing like america. Getting rid of cameras and getting traffic calming measures installed instead is not particularly difficult, it’s about the same. This idea of complete and widespread reinterpretation of public space? It doesn’t make sense here.\n
          \n
          I’m german tho.\n
          \n
          > By American standards it would be considered idyllic.\n
          \n
          As such, I do not believe american standards as per roads are anything to go by\n
          \n
          > Parts of the road already have traffic calming measures.\n
          \n
          That’s not really gonna stop anybody from speeding down the remaining lane(s) because they’re still very wide. It’s good for pedestrians, probably, don’t get me wrong, doesn’t really fight the speeding problem at all.\n
          \n
          > This is very easily expanded upon with the addition of chicanes, which are in wide use (hundreds of thousands) across the country.\n
          \n
          These do\n
          \n
          > There’s no “reimagining” needed here. People don’t need to develop a new consciousness of public space.\n
          \n
          Those are very much spotwork as per slowing down cars. They work for that spot, yes. It is however absolutely not hard to accelerate a car again. This is a good idea to slow people down before a busy or a school crossing or something, the third picture especially is just going to lead to slow down / wait -&gt; mash gas pedal\n
          \n
          > We do not live in a country that is utterly obsessed with cars like america.\n
          \n
          True, but also nigh about the lowest bar to clear right after like Saudi Arabia.\n
          \n
          > There are zero political barriers to this, the only barrier is the profit/revenue barrier of the traffic camera obsessed crowd.\n
          \n
          And you accuse me of living in some fantasy reality?\n
          \n
          > In every town, in every village, in every city. Outisde every school. In every residential area. All over the country.\n
          \n
          Same, could find similar features here by looking out my old apartments window. Hell, do you one better than that, we have shit like this\n
          \n
          ![](https://hexbear.net/pictrs/image/da817aa1-0f08-452f-9f76-95587ddeb3e0.png)\n
          \n
          Sorry for the grainy pictures, didn’t wanna spend that much time on google. Now that’s a road you can’t speed on, on account of many chicanes and other built up enviroments, not just the single one and then it’s open road before and after.\n
          \n
          Doesn’t mean the rest of it isn’t incredibly car brained and hostile, and as such, transportation by foot or cycling sucks major ass.\n
          \n
          If your vision of not being carbrained is “do better than the USA”, yeah, you’re there, but that shouldn’t be the end goal
          """
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     …2
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    > Why not?\n
    \n
    Because that’s hardly what can be considered a realistic solution. Again, not against it, but what, are you gonna close down like 90% of roads? Only some of them, if so, which ones, and how is stuff handled on the ones that remain open?
    """
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
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    +slug: "Speed-camera-cut-down-for-second-time-in-Cornwall"
    +title: "Speed camera cut down for second time in Cornwall"
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    +body: "It’s insane the lengths that some people will go to save a few seconds on their commute, while also endangering others."
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      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
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        +body: "I mean so what’s to be done then. I agree on “redesign pretty much every street or road” but like, until then, it’s just a great big free for all?"
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
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          > The US, for instance, doesn’t have speed cameras\n
          \n
          That’s just straight up wrong.
          """
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        +body: "Speaking from germany, 33 in a 30 wouldn’t even trip the speed cams here. Earliest infraction is basically doing 6mph over on a 30mph road, which would come at 50€ fine. We apparently also have 50 times less speed cameras and it absolutely does not stop people from fucking malding over them. They have to be designed bulletproof here now and even those still get regularly blown up. None of the points you raise change anything about it, because the core issue is people are terminally car brained"
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          > Why not?\n
          \n
          Because that’s hardly what can be considered a realistic solution. Again, not against it, but what, are you gonna close down like 90% of roads? Only some of them, if so, which ones, and how is stuff handled on the ones that remain open?
          """
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      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096}
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        +body: "It’s a bad TL;DR but they do lay out why it’s illegal"
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      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2351
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
        +body: "What’s your usual transportation method?"
        +lang: "en"
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          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
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          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
        ]
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      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2327
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        +body: """
          > You want people to actually slow down? Redesign the road.\n
          \n
          I’ve posed this question elsewhere in this thread and: what until then? Like what do you do until a good, what, 50 - 90% of road depending on criteria, is redesigned?
          """
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      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2143
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        +body: """
          > Croydon council responded to FOI request stating it costs £2.5-£3.5k to install traffic islands. The cost of a speed camera installation on the other hand is £85,000 according to Bedford Council, with a £5000 annual upkeep cost.\n
          \n
          Croydon cites average cost for roughly such an action at 2,5k - 3,5k in a denial of the FOI request which means there’s pretty much no way to know how much it actually costs depending on what they calculate the average on and if you have any idea about the cost of public works that number should strike you as very, very oddly low.\n
          \n
          Wiltshire government [here](https://www.wiltshire.gov.uk/article/1281/Costs-of-highway-works) cites about 45.000k for a traffic island narrowing a road to one lane, all in all.\n
          \n
          The source you cite for the cameras, however, puts those costs for 2 cameras, so 42,500 a pop / 2500 upkeep annual, albeit with returns via fines obviously.
          """
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      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2051
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          > The process and length of time it takes for either option are practically the same.\n
          \n
          Sure, but you’re arguing for like instant speed camera abolishment or destruction here, aye?\n
          \n
          > Not to mention a traffic island costs like £3k while a camera costs £85k (guess why they pick the camera despite the price).\n
          \n
          Dunno if you got to that one already but I’ve did a reply pointing out where you’re a bit off there
          """
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      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2104
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        +body: """
          You can just say yes, you don’t have to couch this shit in a good WKUK skit.\n
          \n
          Do they do harm to the poor that are on bicycles, or walking, then?
          """
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2118
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        +body: """
          > Having been to court twice for online related stuff I will absolutely couch this shit.\n
          \n
          Fair, I meant it more on “don’t do it on my accord”\n
          \n
          > I do not see how that question is doing anything but attempting some sort of gotcha or accusation that these people\n
          \n
          Your these people just seems to have some very oddly drawn lines is the heart of it. It does include poor drivers, to whom speed cameras are a problem and not that much of a solution, it does not seem to include poor people not in a car, who profit from this. My FALGSOC doesn’t have speed cameras in it - who’s would - but it’s a long way from here to there.\n
          \n
          > deserve to be fucked over instead of have real designs that don’t result in their lives being made harder. It seems like spite to me.\n
          \n
          This is running on the assumption that I think people deserve to be fucked over for speeding, and that’s the main motivation. Sure, some of them, but that’s not the kind of distinction a speed cam could make on account of how it works. I’d very much be open to them not issuing fines but other punishments - as appropiate - to not make them so classist. Loss of driving license, if you really, really fuck up in a sports car that gets impounded or such, but I’ll concede, even that is far out from today, but just to point it out,\n
          \n
          My point here is that for every one it fucks over, it helps other people not being fucked over, because it does do something against speeding. My line of reasoning for speed cams is not that it fucks people over, it’s that it helps people. You wanna focus on the first part, I’m trying to get you to see the issue is more complex than that, at least if you include people outside of cars in your consideration. They’re not a good solution, by any means, again, I assume our optimal way of solving it is quite similar. For the meantime though, the fuck else do you do? Just abandon all traffic enforcement until all the roads get fixed? So what, 20 years of being vulnerable road users being even more endangered than now?
          """
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2229
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          > A negative in the short term leads to a longterm positive.\n
          \n
          I do not want to die a martyr to the fight against traffic cams.\n
          \n
          > Also I see no other method of doing this. If you go to the council and say “I want to replace this highly profitable traffic camera making hundreds of thousands per year with a traffic island that will make no money at all” the decision that any team will make internally is obvious.\n
          \n
          That kind of poses the second question as to what, in the interim, will be cut as per budget, but that’s a sidenote. I guarantee you without change far reaching enough to societally gain a new understanding of public space and roads, when the last speed cam is dismantled you’ll find all the roads still suck ass and will not be redesigned. Once you have the change so far reaching that you can reunderstand basically every road, yeah, then you don’t need the traffic cams anymore and they can be dismantled.
          """
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2322
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          > Meanwhile, in the real world we must be concerned with actually viable change.\n
          \n
          Real Zach Brannigan hours here on account of “It might get a lot of other people killed but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make”\n
          \n
          > You are inventing a fantasy reality to suit an anti car obsession. One I share, car reduction is good. However you’re being a tit now.\n
          \n
          What part of this is fantasy. Like where do you see the political potential for a nigh nationwide road redesign.
          """
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2294
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        +body: """
          > This is the weird fantasy part I was referring to. It’s like, just nonsense. It comes off like an american attitude being ported to the UK with absolutely no adaptation whatsoever to British conditions. Our conditions are nothing like america. Getting rid of cameras and getting traffic calming measures installed instead is not particularly difficult, it’s about the same. This idea of complete and widespread reinterpretation of public space? It doesn’t make sense here.\n
          \n
          I’m german tho.\n
          \n
          > By American standards it would be considered idyllic.\n
          \n
          As such, I do not believe american standards as per roads are anything to go by\n
          \n
          > Parts of the road already have traffic calming measures.\n
          \n
          That’s not really gonna stop anybody from speeding down the remaining lane(s) because they’re still very wide. It’s good for pedestrians, probably, don’t get me wrong, doesn’t really fight the speeding problem at all.\n
          \n
          > This is very easily expanded upon with the addition of chicanes, which are in wide use (hundreds of thousands) across the country.\n
          \n
          These do\n
          \n
          > There’s no “reimagining” needed here. People don’t need to develop a new consciousness of public space.\n
          \n
          Those are very much spotwork as per slowing down cars. They work for that spot, yes. It is however absolutely not hard to accelerate a car again. This is a good idea to slow people down before a busy or a school crossing or something, the third picture especially is just going to lead to slow down / wait -&gt; mash gas pedal\n
          \n
          > We do not live in a country that is utterly obsessed with cars like america.\n
          \n
          True, but also nigh about the lowest bar to clear right after like Saudi Arabia.\n
          \n
          > There are zero political barriers to this, the only barrier is the profit/revenue barrier of the traffic camera obsessed crowd.\n
          \n
          And you accuse me of living in some fantasy reality?\n
          \n
          > In every town, in every village, in every city. Outisde every school. In every residential area. All over the country.\n
          \n
          Same, could find similar features here by looking out my old apartments window. Hell, do you one better than that, we have shit like this\n
          \n
          ![](https://hexbear.net/pictrs/image/da817aa1-0f08-452f-9f76-95587ddeb3e0.png)\n
          \n
          Sorry for the grainy pictures, didn’t wanna spend that much time on google. Now that’s a road you can’t speed on, on account of many chicanes and other built up enviroments, not just the single one and then it’s open road before and after.\n
          \n
          Doesn’t mean the rest of it isn’t incredibly car brained and hostile, and as such, transportation by foot or cycling sucks major ass.\n
          \n
          If your vision of not being carbrained is “do better than the USA”, yeah, you’re there, but that shouldn’t be the end goal
          """
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  +body: """
    > just roads that “require” speed cameras.\n
    \n
    So when’s that the case or not
    """
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
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    +slug: "Speed-camera-cut-down-for-second-time-in-Cornwall"
    +title: "Speed camera cut down for second time in Cornwall"
    +url: "https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj5g1elz57qo"
    +body: "It’s insane the lengths that some people will go to save a few seconds on their commute, while also endangering others."
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      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
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        +body: "I mean so what’s to be done then. I agree on “redesign pretty much every street or road” but like, until then, it’s just a great big free for all?"
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        +body: """
          > The US, for instance, doesn’t have speed cameras\n
          \n
          That’s just straight up wrong.
          """
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        +body: "Speaking from germany, 33 in a 30 wouldn’t even trip the speed cams here. Earliest infraction is basically doing 6mph over on a 30mph road, which would come at 50€ fine. We apparently also have 50 times less speed cameras and it absolutely does not stop people from fucking malding over them. They have to be designed bulletproof here now and even those still get regularly blown up. None of the points you raise change anything about it, because the core issue is people are terminally car brained"
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        +body: "I’m not sure if you’re being serious here"
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          > Why not?\n
          \n
          Because that’s hardly what can be considered a realistic solution. Again, not against it, but what, are you gonna close down like 90% of roads? Only some of them, if so, which ones, and how is stuff handled on the ones that remain open?
          """
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      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096}
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        +body: "It’s a bad TL;DR but they do lay out why it’s illegal"
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      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2351
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        +body: "What’s your usual transportation method?"
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          date: 2024-01-08 17:03:55.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 291985
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        +body: """
          > You want people to actually slow down? Redesign the road.\n
          \n
          I’ve posed this question elsewhere in this thread and: what until then? Like what do you do until a good, what, 50 - 90% of road depending on criteria, is redesigned?
          """
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        +body: """
          > Croydon council responded to FOI request stating it costs £2.5-£3.5k to install traffic islands. The cost of a speed camera installation on the other hand is £85,000 according to Bedford Council, with a £5000 annual upkeep cost.\n
          \n
          Croydon cites average cost for roughly such an action at 2,5k - 3,5k in a denial of the FOI request which means there’s pretty much no way to know how much it actually costs depending on what they calculate the average on and if you have any idea about the cost of public works that number should strike you as very, very oddly low.\n
          \n
          Wiltshire government [here](https://www.wiltshire.gov.uk/article/1281/Costs-of-highway-works) cites about 45.000k for a traffic island narrowing a road to one lane, all in all.\n
          \n
          The source you cite for the cameras, however, puts those costs for 2 cameras, so 42,500 a pop / 2500 upkeep annual, albeit with returns via fines obviously.
          """
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          > The process and length of time it takes for either option are practically the same.\n
          \n
          Sure, but you’re arguing for like instant speed camera abolishment or destruction here, aye?\n
          \n
          > Not to mention a traffic island costs like £3k while a camera costs £85k (guess why they pick the camera despite the price).\n
          \n
          Dunno if you got to that one already but I’ve did a reply pointing out where you’re a bit off there
          """
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          You can just say yes, you don’t have to couch this shit in a good WKUK skit.\n
          \n
          Do they do harm to the poor that are on bicycles, or walking, then?
          """
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2118
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        +body: """
          > Having been to court twice for online related stuff I will absolutely couch this shit.\n
          \n
          Fair, I meant it more on “don’t do it on my accord”\n
          \n
          > I do not see how that question is doing anything but attempting some sort of gotcha or accusation that these people\n
          \n
          Your these people just seems to have some very oddly drawn lines is the heart of it. It does include poor drivers, to whom speed cameras are a problem and not that much of a solution, it does not seem to include poor people not in a car, who profit from this. My FALGSOC doesn’t have speed cameras in it - who’s would - but it’s a long way from here to there.\n
          \n
          > deserve to be fucked over instead of have real designs that don’t result in their lives being made harder. It seems like spite to me.\n
          \n
          This is running on the assumption that I think people deserve to be fucked over for speeding, and that’s the main motivation. Sure, some of them, but that’s not the kind of distinction a speed cam could make on account of how it works. I’d very much be open to them not issuing fines but other punishments - as appropiate - to not make them so classist. Loss of driving license, if you really, really fuck up in a sports car that gets impounded or such, but I’ll concede, even that is far out from today, but just to point it out,\n
          \n
          My point here is that for every one it fucks over, it helps other people not being fucked over, because it does do something against speeding. My line of reasoning for speed cams is not that it fucks people over, it’s that it helps people. You wanna focus on the first part, I’m trying to get you to see the issue is more complex than that, at least if you include people outside of cars in your consideration. They’re not a good solution, by any means, again, I assume our optimal way of solving it is quite similar. For the meantime though, the fuck else do you do? Just abandon all traffic enforcement until all the roads get fixed? So what, 20 years of being vulnerable road users being even more endangered than now?
          """
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          > A negative in the short term leads to a longterm positive.\n
          \n
          I do not want to die a martyr to the fight against traffic cams.\n
          \n
          > Also I see no other method of doing this. If you go to the council and say “I want to replace this highly profitable traffic camera making hundreds of thousands per year with a traffic island that will make no money at all” the decision that any team will make internally is obvious.\n
          \n
          That kind of poses the second question as to what, in the interim, will be cut as per budget, but that’s a sidenote. I guarantee you without change far reaching enough to societally gain a new understanding of public space and roads, when the last speed cam is dismantled you’ll find all the roads still suck ass and will not be redesigned. Once you have the change so far reaching that you can reunderstand basically every road, yeah, then you don’t need the traffic cams anymore and they can be dismantled.
          """
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2322
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          > Meanwhile, in the real world we must be concerned with actually viable change.\n
          \n
          Real Zach Brannigan hours here on account of “It might get a lot of other people killed but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make”\n
          \n
          > You are inventing a fantasy reality to suit an anti car obsession. One I share, car reduction is good. However you’re being a tit now.\n
          \n
          What part of this is fantasy. Like where do you see the political potential for a nigh nationwide road redesign.
          """
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2294
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        +body: """
          > This is the weird fantasy part I was referring to. It’s like, just nonsense. It comes off like an american attitude being ported to the UK with absolutely no adaptation whatsoever to British conditions. Our conditions are nothing like america. Getting rid of cameras and getting traffic calming measures installed instead is not particularly difficult, it’s about the same. This idea of complete and widespread reinterpretation of public space? It doesn’t make sense here.\n
          \n
          I’m german tho.\n
          \n
          > By American standards it would be considered idyllic.\n
          \n
          As such, I do not believe american standards as per roads are anything to go by\n
          \n
          > Parts of the road already have traffic calming measures.\n
          \n
          That’s not really gonna stop anybody from speeding down the remaining lane(s) because they’re still very wide. It’s good for pedestrians, probably, don’t get me wrong, doesn’t really fight the speeding problem at all.\n
          \n
          > This is very easily expanded upon with the addition of chicanes, which are in wide use (hundreds of thousands) across the country.\n
          \n
          These do\n
          \n
          > There’s no “reimagining” needed here. People don’t need to develop a new consciousness of public space.\n
          \n
          Those are very much spotwork as per slowing down cars. They work for that spot, yes. It is however absolutely not hard to accelerate a car again. This is a good idea to slow people down before a busy or a school crossing or something, the third picture especially is just going to lead to slow down / wait -&gt; mash gas pedal\n
          \n
          > We do not live in a country that is utterly obsessed with cars like america.\n
          \n
          True, but also nigh about the lowest bar to clear right after like Saudi Arabia.\n
          \n
          > There are zero political barriers to this, the only barrier is the profit/revenue barrier of the traffic camera obsessed crowd.\n
          \n
          And you accuse me of living in some fantasy reality?\n
          \n
          > In every town, in every village, in every city. Outisde every school. In every residential area. All over the country.\n
          \n
          Same, could find similar features here by looking out my old apartments window. Hell, do you one better than that, we have shit like this\n
          \n
          ![](https://hexbear.net/pictrs/image/da817aa1-0f08-452f-9f76-95587ddeb3e0.png)\n
          \n
          Sorry for the grainy pictures, didn’t wanna spend that much time on google. Now that’s a road you can’t speed on, on account of many chicanes and other built up enviroments, not just the single one and then it’s open road before and after.\n
          \n
          Doesn’t mean the rest of it isn’t incredibly car brained and hostile, and as such, transportation by foot or cycling sucks major ass.\n
          \n
          If your vision of not being carbrained is “do better than the USA”, yeah, you’re there, but that shouldn’t be the end goal
          """
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
        ]
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        }
        +"title": 299279
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    ]
    -id: 27607
    -titleTs: "'camera':2 'cornwal':9 'cut':3 'second':6 'speed':1 'time':7"
    -bodyTs: "'also':20 'commut':18 'endang':21 'go':10 'insan':3 'length':5 'other':22 'peopl':8 'save':12 'second':15"
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1704545117 {#2598
      date: 2024-01-06 13:45:17.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2062 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
  +body: """
    > just roads that “require” speed cameras.\n
    \n
    So when’s that the case or not
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 4
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    date: 2024-01-07 19:58:47.0 +01:00
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    "@Rom@hexbear.net"
    "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
    "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2081 …}
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    date: 2024-01-07 19:58:47.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 289695
}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2549 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2694 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2695 …}
    +slug: "Speed-camera-cut-down-for-second-time-in-Cornwall"
    +title: "Speed camera cut down for second time in Cornwall"
    +url: "https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj5g1elz57qo"
    +body: "It’s insane the lengths that some people will go to save a few seconds on their commute, while also endangering others."
    +type: "link"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: false
    +commentCount: 200
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      date: 2024-01-11 17:32:35.0 +01:00
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    +ip: null
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    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2704 …}
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    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2712 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2714 …}
    +children: [
      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: "I mean so what’s to be done then. I agree on “redesign pretty much every street or road” but like, until then, it’s just a great big free for all?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 8
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2360 …}
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        -id: 288370
        -bodyTs: "'agre':11 'big':29 'done':8 'everi':16 'free':30 'great':28 'like':21 'mean':2 'much':15 'pretti':14 'redesign':13 'road':19 'street':17"
        +ranking: 0
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1704624206 {#2371
          date: 2024-01-07 11:43:26.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 288370
      }
      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
        +body: """
          > The US, for instance, doesn’t have speed cameras\n
          \n
          That’s just straight up wrong.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 10
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          date: 2024-01-07 12:01:02.0 +01:00
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1708 …}
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        -id: 288397
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          date: 2024-01-07 12:01:02.0 +01:00
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2393 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
        +body: "Speaking from germany, 33 in a 30 wouldn’t even trip the speed cams here. Earliest infraction is basically doing 6mph over on a 30mph road, which would come at 50€ fine. We apparently also have 50 times less speed cameras and it absolutely does not stop people from fucking malding over them. They have to be designed bulletproof here now and even those still get regularly blown up. None of the points you raise change anything about it, because the core issue is people are terminally car brained"
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          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
          "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Saff@lemmy.ml"
        ]
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        -bodyTs: "'30':7 '30mph':25 '33':4 '50':31,37 '6mph':21 'absolut':44 'also':35 'anyth':77 'appar':34 'basic':19 'blown':68 'brain':89 'bulletproof':59 'cam':14 'camera':41 'car':88 'chang':76 'come':29 'core':82 'design':58 'earliest':16 'even':10,63 'fine':32 'fuck':50 'germani':3 'get':66 'infract':17 'issu':83 'less':39 'mald':51 'none':70 'peopl':48,85 'point':73 'rais':75 'regular':67 'road':26 'speak':1 'speed':13,40 'still':65 'stop':47 'termin':87 'time':38 'trip':11 'would':28 'wouldn':8"
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          date: 2024-01-07 15:15:31.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 288725
      }
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2030 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: "I’m not sure if you’re being serious here"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 3
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1704651909 {#1403
          date: 2024-01-07 19:25:09.0 +01:00
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2032 …}
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        -id: 289601
        -bodyTs: "'m':2 're':7 'serious':9 'sure':4"
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:25:09.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 289601
      }
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2035 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: """
          > Why not?\n
          \n
          Because that’s hardly what can be considered a realistic solution. Again, not against it, but what, are you gonna close down like 90% of roads? Only some of them, if so, which ones, and how is stuff handled on the ones that remain open?
          """
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:42:56.0 +01:00
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2031 …}
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        -id: 289649
        -bodyTs: "'90':26 'close':23 'consid':10 'gonna':22 'handl':41 'hard':6 'like':25 'one':36,44 'open':47 'realist':12 'remain':46 'road':28 'solut':13 'stuff':40"
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:42:56.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 289649
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096}
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2092
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2094 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
        +body: "It’s a bad TL;DR but they do lay out why it’s illegal"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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        +lastActive: DateTime @1704657389 {#2090
          date: 2024-01-07 20:56:29.0 +01:00
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
          "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2241 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2130 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2129 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2132 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2040 …}
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        -id: 289800
        -bodyTs: "'bad':4 'dr':6 'illeg':15 'lay':10 'tl':5"
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          date: 2024-01-07 20:56:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 289800
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2351
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2347 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
        +body: "What’s your usual transportation method?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
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          date: 2024-01-08 17:03:55.0 +01:00
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
          "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2332 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2349 …}
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        -id: 291985
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          date: 2024-01-08 17:03:55.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 291985
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2327
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2329 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2333 …}
        +body: """
          > You want people to actually slow down? Redesign the road.\n
          \n
          I’ve posed this question elsewhere in this thread and: what until then? Like what do you do until a good, what, 50 - 90% of road depending on criteria, is redesigned?
          """
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2024-01-08 17:07:53.0 +01:00
        }
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2323 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2300 …}
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        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2342 …}
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        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2335 …}
        -id: 291989
        -bodyTs: "'50':33 '90':34 'actual':5 'criteria':39 'depend':37 'elsewher':16 'good':31 'like':24 'peopl':3 'pose':13 'question':15 'redesign':8,41 'road':10,36 'slow':6 'thread':19 've':12 'want':2"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1704730073 {#2325
          date: 2024-01-08 17:07:53.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 291989
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2143
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          > Croydon council responded to FOI request stating it costs £2.5-£3.5k to install traffic islands. The cost of a speed camera installation on the other hand is £85,000 according to Bedford Council, with a £5000 annual upkeep cost.\n
          \n
          Croydon cites average cost for roughly such an action at 2,5k - 3,5k in a denial of the FOI request which means there’s pretty much no way to know how much it actually costs depending on what they calculate the average on and if you have any idea about the cost of public works that number should strike you as very, very oddly low.\n
          \n
          Wiltshire government [here](https://www.wiltshire.gov.uk/article/1281/Costs-of-highway-works) cites about 45.000k for a traffic island narrowing a road to one lane, all in all.\n
          \n
          The source you cite for the cameras, however, puts those costs for 2 cameras, so 42,500 a pop / 2500 upkeep annual, albeit with returns via fines obviously.
          """
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          > The process and length of time it takes for either option are practically the same.\n
          \n
          Sure, but you’re arguing for like instant speed camera abolishment or destruction here, aye?\n
          \n
          > Not to mention a traffic island costs like £3k while a camera costs £85k (guess why they pick the camera despite the price).\n
          \n
          Dunno if you got to that one already but I’ve did a reply pointing out where you’re a bit off there
          """
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          You can just say yes, you don’t have to couch this shit in a good WKUK skit.\n
          \n
          Do they do harm to the poor that are on bicycles, or walking, then?
          """
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2118
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        +body: """
          > Having been to court twice for online related stuff I will absolutely couch this shit.\n
          \n
          Fair, I meant it more on “don’t do it on my accord”\n
          \n
          > I do not see how that question is doing anything but attempting some sort of gotcha or accusation that these people\n
          \n
          Your these people just seems to have some very oddly drawn lines is the heart of it. It does include poor drivers, to whom speed cameras are a problem and not that much of a solution, it does not seem to include poor people not in a car, who profit from this. My FALGSOC doesn’t have speed cameras in it - who’s would - but it’s a long way from here to there.\n
          \n
          > deserve to be fucked over instead of have real designs that don’t result in their lives being made harder. It seems like spite to me.\n
          \n
          This is running on the assumption that I think people deserve to be fucked over for speeding, and that’s the main motivation. Sure, some of them, but that’s not the kind of distinction a speed cam could make on account of how it works. I’d very much be open to them not issuing fines but other punishments - as appropiate - to not make them so classist. Loss of driving license, if you really, really fuck up in a sports car that gets impounded or such, but I’ll concede, even that is far out from today, but just to point it out,\n
          \n
          My point here is that for every one it fucks over, it helps other people not being fucked over, because it does do something against speeding. My line of reasoning for speed cams is not that it fucks people over, it’s that it helps people. You wanna focus on the first part, I’m trying to get you to see the issue is more complex than that, at least if you include people outside of cars in your consideration. They’re not a good solution, by any means, again, I assume our optimal way of solving it is quite similar. For the meantime though, the fuck else do you do? Just abandon all traffic enforcement until all the roads get fixed? So what, 20 years of being vulnerable road users being even more endangered than now?
          """
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          > A negative in the short term leads to a longterm positive.\n
          \n
          I do not want to die a martyr to the fight against traffic cams.\n
          \n
          > Also I see no other method of doing this. If you go to the council and say “I want to replace this highly profitable traffic camera making hundreds of thousands per year with a traffic island that will make no money at all” the decision that any team will make internally is obvious.\n
          \n
          That kind of poses the second question as to what, in the interim, will be cut as per budget, but that’s a sidenote. I guarantee you without change far reaching enough to societally gain a new understanding of public space and roads, when the last speed cam is dismantled you’ll find all the roads still suck ass and will not be redesigned. Once you have the change so far reaching that you can reunderstand basically every road, yeah, then you don’t need the traffic cams anymore and they can be dismantled.
          """
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2322
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          > Meanwhile, in the real world we must be concerned with actually viable change.\n
          \n
          Real Zach Brannigan hours here on account of “It might get a lot of other people killed but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make”\n
          \n
          > You are inventing a fantasy reality to suit an anti car obsession. One I share, car reduction is good. However you’re being a tit now.\n
          \n
          What part of this is fantasy. Like where do you see the political potential for a nigh nationwide road redesign.
          """
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2294
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        +body: """
          > This is the weird fantasy part I was referring to. It’s like, just nonsense. It comes off like an american attitude being ported to the UK with absolutely no adaptation whatsoever to British conditions. Our conditions are nothing like america. Getting rid of cameras and getting traffic calming measures installed instead is not particularly difficult, it’s about the same. This idea of complete and widespread reinterpretation of public space? It doesn’t make sense here.\n
          \n
          I’m german tho.\n
          \n
          > By American standards it would be considered idyllic.\n
          \n
          As such, I do not believe american standards as per roads are anything to go by\n
          \n
          > Parts of the road already have traffic calming measures.\n
          \n
          That’s not really gonna stop anybody from speeding down the remaining lane(s) because they’re still very wide. It’s good for pedestrians, probably, don’t get me wrong, doesn’t really fight the speeding problem at all.\n
          \n
          > This is very easily expanded upon with the addition of chicanes, which are in wide use (hundreds of thousands) across the country.\n
          \n
          These do\n
          \n
          > There’s no “reimagining” needed here. People don’t need to develop a new consciousness of public space.\n
          \n
          Those are very much spotwork as per slowing down cars. They work for that spot, yes. It is however absolutely not hard to accelerate a car again. This is a good idea to slow people down before a busy or a school crossing or something, the third picture especially is just going to lead to slow down / wait -&gt; mash gas pedal\n
          \n
          > We do not live in a country that is utterly obsessed with cars like america.\n
          \n
          True, but also nigh about the lowest bar to clear right after like Saudi Arabia.\n
          \n
          > There are zero political barriers to this, the only barrier is the profit/revenue barrier of the traffic camera obsessed crowd.\n
          \n
          And you accuse me of living in some fantasy reality?\n
          \n
          > In every town, in every village, in every city. Outisde every school. In every residential area. All over the country.\n
          \n
          Same, could find similar features here by looking out my old apartments window. Hell, do you one better than that, we have shit like this\n
          \n
          ![](https://hexbear.net/pictrs/image/da817aa1-0f08-452f-9f76-95587ddeb3e0.png)\n
          \n
          Sorry for the grainy pictures, didn’t wanna spend that much time on google. Now that’s a road you can’t speed on, on account of many chicanes and other built up enviroments, not just the single one and then it’s open road before and after.\n
          \n
          Doesn’t mean the rest of it isn’t incredibly car brained and hostile, and as such, transportation by foot or cycling sucks major ass.\n
          \n
          If your vision of not being carbrained is “do better than the USA”, yeah, you’re there, but that shouldn’t be the end goal
          """
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    ]
    -id: 27607
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      date: 2024-01-06 13:45:17.0 +01:00
    }
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     …2
  }
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  +body: """
    > just roads that “require” speed cameras.\n
    \n
    So when’s that the case or not
    """
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2092
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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    +slug: "Speed-camera-cut-down-for-second-time-in-Cornwall"
    +title: "Speed camera cut down for second time in Cornwall"
    +url: "https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj5g1elz57qo"
    +body: "It’s insane the lengths that some people will go to save a few seconds on their commute, while also endangering others."
    +type: "link"
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    +children: [
      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
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        +body: "I mean so what’s to be done then. I agree on “redesign pretty much every street or road” but like, until then, it’s just a great big free for all?"
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2024-01-07 11:43:26.0 +01:00
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
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        +body: """
          > The US, for instance, doesn’t have speed cameras\n
          \n
          That’s just straight up wrong.
          """
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
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        +body: "Speaking from germany, 33 in a 30 wouldn’t even trip the speed cams here. Earliest infraction is basically doing 6mph over on a 30mph road, which would come at 50€ fine. We apparently also have 50 times less speed cameras and it absolutely does not stop people from fucking malding over them. They have to be designed bulletproof here now and even those still get regularly blown up. None of the points you raise change anything about it, because the core issue is people are terminally car brained"
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          "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Saff@lemmy.ml"
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        -bodyTs: "'30':7 '30mph':25 '33':4 '50':31,37 '6mph':21 'absolut':44 'also':35 'anyth':77 'appar':34 'basic':19 'blown':68 'brain':89 'bulletproof':59 'cam':14 'camera':41 'car':88 'chang':76 'come':29 'core':82 'design':58 'earliest':16 'even':10,63 'fine':32 'fuck':50 'germani':3 'get':66 'infract':17 'issu':83 'less':39 'mald':51 'none':70 'peopl':48,85 'point':73 'rais':75 'regular':67 'road':26 'speak':1 'speed':13,40 'still':65 'stop':47 'termin':87 'time':38 'trip':11 'would':28 'wouldn':8"
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
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        +body: "I’m not sure if you’re being serious here"
        +lang: "en"
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
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        -id: 289601
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      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
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        +body: """
          > Why not?\n
          \n
          Because that’s hardly what can be considered a realistic solution. Again, not against it, but what, are you gonna close down like 90% of roads? Only some of them, if so, which ones, and how is stuff handled on the ones that remain open?
          """
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      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
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        +body: """
          > just roads that “require” speed cameras.\n
          \n
          So when’s that the case or not
          """
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          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
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        -id: 289695
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2092}
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2351
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
        +body: "What’s your usual transportation method?"
        +lang: "en"
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          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
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      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2327
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2333 …}
        +body: """
          > You want people to actually slow down? Redesign the road.\n
          \n
          I’ve posed this question elsewhere in this thread and: what until then? Like what do you do until a good, what, 50 - 90% of road depending on criteria, is redesigned?
          """
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        -id: 291989
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      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2143
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        +body: """
          > Croydon council responded to FOI request stating it costs £2.5-£3.5k to install traffic islands. The cost of a speed camera installation on the other hand is £85,000 according to Bedford Council, with a £5000 annual upkeep cost.\n
          \n
          Croydon cites average cost for roughly such an action at 2,5k - 3,5k in a denial of the FOI request which means there’s pretty much no way to know how much it actually costs depending on what they calculate the average on and if you have any idea about the cost of public works that number should strike you as very, very oddly low.\n
          \n
          Wiltshire government [here](https://www.wiltshire.gov.uk/article/1281/Costs-of-highway-works) cites about 45.000k for a traffic island narrowing a road to one lane, all in all.\n
          \n
          The source you cite for the cameras, however, puts those costs for 2 cameras, so 42,500 a pop / 2500 upkeep annual, albeit with returns via fines obviously.
          """
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          > The process and length of time it takes for either option are practically the same.\n
          \n
          Sure, but you’re arguing for like instant speed camera abolishment or destruction here, aye?\n
          \n
          > Not to mention a traffic island costs like £3k while a camera costs £85k (guess why they pick the camera despite the price).\n
          \n
          Dunno if you got to that one already but I’ve did a reply pointing out where you’re a bit off there
          """
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          You can just say yes, you don’t have to couch this shit in a good WKUK skit.\n
          \n
          Do they do harm to the poor that are on bicycles, or walking, then?
          """
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2118
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        +body: """
          > Having been to court twice for online related stuff I will absolutely couch this shit.\n
          \n
          Fair, I meant it more on “don’t do it on my accord”\n
          \n
          > I do not see how that question is doing anything but attempting some sort of gotcha or accusation that these people\n
          \n
          Your these people just seems to have some very oddly drawn lines is the heart of it. It does include poor drivers, to whom speed cameras are a problem and not that much of a solution, it does not seem to include poor people not in a car, who profit from this. My FALGSOC doesn’t have speed cameras in it - who’s would - but it’s a long way from here to there.\n
          \n
          > deserve to be fucked over instead of have real designs that don’t result in their lives being made harder. It seems like spite to me.\n
          \n
          This is running on the assumption that I think people deserve to be fucked over for speeding, and that’s the main motivation. Sure, some of them, but that’s not the kind of distinction a speed cam could make on account of how it works. I’d very much be open to them not issuing fines but other punishments - as appropiate - to not make them so classist. Loss of driving license, if you really, really fuck up in a sports car that gets impounded or such, but I’ll concede, even that is far out from today, but just to point it out,\n
          \n
          My point here is that for every one it fucks over, it helps other people not being fucked over, because it does do something against speeding. My line of reasoning for speed cams is not that it fucks people over, it’s that it helps people. You wanna focus on the first part, I’m trying to get you to see the issue is more complex than that, at least if you include people outside of cars in your consideration. They’re not a good solution, by any means, again, I assume our optimal way of solving it is quite similar. For the meantime though, the fuck else do you do? Just abandon all traffic enforcement until all the roads get fixed? So what, 20 years of being vulnerable road users being even more endangered than now?
          """
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          > A negative in the short term leads to a longterm positive.\n
          \n
          I do not want to die a martyr to the fight against traffic cams.\n
          \n
          > Also I see no other method of doing this. If you go to the council and say “I want to replace this highly profitable traffic camera making hundreds of thousands per year with a traffic island that will make no money at all” the decision that any team will make internally is obvious.\n
          \n
          That kind of poses the second question as to what, in the interim, will be cut as per budget, but that’s a sidenote. I guarantee you without change far reaching enough to societally gain a new understanding of public space and roads, when the last speed cam is dismantled you’ll find all the roads still suck ass and will not be redesigned. Once you have the change so far reaching that you can reunderstand basically every road, yeah, then you don’t need the traffic cams anymore and they can be dismantled.
          """
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2322
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          > Meanwhile, in the real world we must be concerned with actually viable change.\n
          \n
          Real Zach Brannigan hours here on account of “It might get a lot of other people killed but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make”\n
          \n
          > You are inventing a fantasy reality to suit an anti car obsession. One I share, car reduction is good. However you’re being a tit now.\n
          \n
          What part of this is fantasy. Like where do you see the political potential for a nigh nationwide road redesign.
          """
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2294
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          > This is the weird fantasy part I was referring to. It’s like, just nonsense. It comes off like an american attitude being ported to the UK with absolutely no adaptation whatsoever to British conditions. Our conditions are nothing like america. Getting rid of cameras and getting traffic calming measures installed instead is not particularly difficult, it’s about the same. This idea of complete and widespread reinterpretation of public space? It doesn’t make sense here.\n
          \n
          I’m german tho.\n
          \n
          > By American standards it would be considered idyllic.\n
          \n
          As such, I do not believe american standards as per roads are anything to go by\n
          \n
          > Parts of the road already have traffic calming measures.\n
          \n
          That’s not really gonna stop anybody from speeding down the remaining lane(s) because they’re still very wide. It’s good for pedestrians, probably, don’t get me wrong, doesn’t really fight the speeding problem at all.\n
          \n
          > This is very easily expanded upon with the addition of chicanes, which are in wide use (hundreds of thousands) across the country.\n
          \n
          These do\n
          \n
          > There’s no “reimagining” needed here. People don’t need to develop a new consciousness of public space.\n
          \n
          Those are very much spotwork as per slowing down cars. They work for that spot, yes. It is however absolutely not hard to accelerate a car again. This is a good idea to slow people down before a busy or a school crossing or something, the third picture especially is just going to lead to slow down / wait -&gt; mash gas pedal\n
          \n
          > We do not live in a country that is utterly obsessed with cars like america.\n
          \n
          True, but also nigh about the lowest bar to clear right after like Saudi Arabia.\n
          \n
          > There are zero political barriers to this, the only barrier is the profit/revenue barrier of the traffic camera obsessed crowd.\n
          \n
          And you accuse me of living in some fantasy reality?\n
          \n
          > In every town, in every village, in every city. Outisde every school. In every residential area. All over the country.\n
          \n
          Same, could find similar features here by looking out my old apartments window. Hell, do you one better than that, we have shit like this\n
          \n
          ![](https://hexbear.net/pictrs/image/da817aa1-0f08-452f-9f76-95587ddeb3e0.png)\n
          \n
          Sorry for the grainy pictures, didn’t wanna spend that much time on google. Now that’s a road you can’t speed on, on account of many chicanes and other built up enviroments, not just the single one and then it’s open road before and after.\n
          \n
          Doesn’t mean the rest of it isn’t incredibly car brained and hostile, and as such, transportation by foot or cycling sucks major ass.\n
          \n
          If your vision of not being carbrained is “do better than the USA”, yeah, you’re there, but that shouldn’t be the end goal
          """
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    ]
    -id: 27607
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      date: 2024-01-06 13:45:17.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2094 …}
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  +body: "It’s a bad TL;DR but they do lay out why it’s illegal"
  +lang: "en"
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    "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
    "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
    "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
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    date: 2024-01-07 20:56:29.0 +01:00
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2092
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2549 …}
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    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2694 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2695 …}
    +slug: "Speed-camera-cut-down-for-second-time-in-Cornwall"
    +title: "Speed camera cut down for second time in Cornwall"
    +url: "https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj5g1elz57qo"
    +body: "It’s insane the lengths that some people will go to save a few seconds on their commute, while also endangering others."
    +type: "link"
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    +isOc: false
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    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2714 …}
    +children: [
      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: "I mean so what’s to be done then. I agree on “redesign pretty much every street or road” but like, until then, it’s just a great big free for all?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
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        -id: 288370
        -bodyTs: "'agre':11 'big':29 'done':8 'everi':16 'free':30 'great':28 'like':21 'mean':2 'much':15 'pretti':14 'redesign':13 'road':19 'street':17"
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          date: 2024-01-07 11:43:26.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 288370
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
        +body: """
          > The US, for instance, doesn’t have speed cameras\n
          \n
          That’s just straight up wrong.
          """
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2024-01-07 12:01:02.0 +01:00
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          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1708 …}
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        -id: 288397
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          date: 2024-01-07 12:01:02.0 +01:00
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
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        +body: "Speaking from germany, 33 in a 30 wouldn’t even trip the speed cams here. Earliest infraction is basically doing 6mph over on a 30mph road, which would come at 50€ fine. We apparently also have 50 times less speed cameras and it absolutely does not stop people from fucking malding over them. They have to be designed bulletproof here now and even those still get regularly blown up. None of the points you raise change anything about it, because the core issue is people are terminally car brained"
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          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
          "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Saff@lemmy.ml"
        ]
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        -bodyTs: "'30':7 '30mph':25 '33':4 '50':31,37 '6mph':21 'absolut':44 'also':35 'anyth':77 'appar':34 'basic':19 'blown':68 'brain':89 'bulletproof':59 'cam':14 'camera':41 'car':88 'chang':76 'come':29 'core':82 'design':58 'earliest':16 'even':10,63 'fine':32 'fuck':50 'germani':3 'get':66 'infract':17 'issu':83 'less':39 'mald':51 'none':70 'peopl':48,85 'point':73 'rais':75 'regular':67 'road':26 'speak':1 'speed':13,40 'still':65 'stop':47 'termin':87 'time':38 'trip':11 'would':28 'wouldn':8"
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          date: 2024-01-07 15:15:31.0 +01:00
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: "I’m not sure if you’re being serious here"
        +lang: "en"
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2032 …}
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        -id: 289601
        -bodyTs: "'m':2 're':7 'serious':9 'sure':4"
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:25:09.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 289601
      }
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2035 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: """
          > Why not?\n
          \n
          Because that’s hardly what can be considered a realistic solution. Again, not against it, but what, are you gonna close down like 90% of roads? Only some of them, if so, which ones, and how is stuff handled on the ones that remain open?
          """
        +lang: "en"
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2031 …}
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        -bodyTs: "'90':26 'close':23 'consid':10 'gonna':22 'handl':41 'hard':6 'like':25 'one':36,44 'open':47 'realist':12 'remain':46 'road':28 'solut':13 'stuff':40"
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:42:56.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 289649
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: """
          > just roads that “require” speed cameras.\n
          \n
          So when’s that the case or not
          """
        +lang: "en"
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2081 …}
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        -id: 289695
        -bodyTs: "'camera':6 'case':12 'requir':4 'road':2 'speed':5"
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:58:47.0 +01:00
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2092}
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2351
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
        +body: "What’s your usual transportation method?"
        +lang: "en"
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          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
          "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
        ]
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        +"title": 291985
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      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2327
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2329 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2333 …}
        +body: """
          > You want people to actually slow down? Redesign the road.\n
          \n
          I’ve posed this question elsewhere in this thread and: what until then? Like what do you do until a good, what, 50 - 90% of road depending on criteria, is redesigned?
          """
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
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        -id: 291989
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        +"title": 291989
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2143
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        +body: """
          > Croydon council responded to FOI request stating it costs £2.5-£3.5k to install traffic islands. The cost of a speed camera installation on the other hand is £85,000 according to Bedford Council, with a £5000 annual upkeep cost.\n
          \n
          Croydon cites average cost for roughly such an action at 2,5k - 3,5k in a denial of the FOI request which means there’s pretty much no way to know how much it actually costs depending on what they calculate the average on and if you have any idea about the cost of public works that number should strike you as very, very oddly low.\n
          \n
          Wiltshire government [here](https://www.wiltshire.gov.uk/article/1281/Costs-of-highway-works) cites about 45.000k for a traffic island narrowing a road to one lane, all in all.\n
          \n
          The source you cite for the cameras, however, puts those costs for 2 cameras, so 42,500 a pop / 2500 upkeep annual, albeit with returns via fines obviously.
          """
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          > The process and length of time it takes for either option are practically the same.\n
          \n
          Sure, but you’re arguing for like instant speed camera abolishment or destruction here, aye?\n
          \n
          > Not to mention a traffic island costs like £3k while a camera costs £85k (guess why they pick the camera despite the price).\n
          \n
          Dunno if you got to that one already but I’ve did a reply pointing out where you’re a bit off there
          """
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          You can just say yes, you don’t have to couch this shit in a good WKUK skit.\n
          \n
          Do they do harm to the poor that are on bicycles, or walking, then?
          """
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2118
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        +body: """
          > Having been to court twice for online related stuff I will absolutely couch this shit.\n
          \n
          Fair, I meant it more on “don’t do it on my accord”\n
          \n
          > I do not see how that question is doing anything but attempting some sort of gotcha or accusation that these people\n
          \n
          Your these people just seems to have some very oddly drawn lines is the heart of it. It does include poor drivers, to whom speed cameras are a problem and not that much of a solution, it does not seem to include poor people not in a car, who profit from this. My FALGSOC doesn’t have speed cameras in it - who’s would - but it’s a long way from here to there.\n
          \n
          > deserve to be fucked over instead of have real designs that don’t result in their lives being made harder. It seems like spite to me.\n
          \n
          This is running on the assumption that I think people deserve to be fucked over for speeding, and that’s the main motivation. Sure, some of them, but that’s not the kind of distinction a speed cam could make on account of how it works. I’d very much be open to them not issuing fines but other punishments - as appropiate - to not make them so classist. Loss of driving license, if you really, really fuck up in a sports car that gets impounded or such, but I’ll concede, even that is far out from today, but just to point it out,\n
          \n
          My point here is that for every one it fucks over, it helps other people not being fucked over, because it does do something against speeding. My line of reasoning for speed cams is not that it fucks people over, it’s that it helps people. You wanna focus on the first part, I’m trying to get you to see the issue is more complex than that, at least if you include people outside of cars in your consideration. They’re not a good solution, by any means, again, I assume our optimal way of solving it is quite similar. For the meantime though, the fuck else do you do? Just abandon all traffic enforcement until all the roads get fixed? So what, 20 years of being vulnerable road users being even more endangered than now?
          """
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          > A negative in the short term leads to a longterm positive.\n
          \n
          I do not want to die a martyr to the fight against traffic cams.\n
          \n
          > Also I see no other method of doing this. If you go to the council and say “I want to replace this highly profitable traffic camera making hundreds of thousands per year with a traffic island that will make no money at all” the decision that any team will make internally is obvious.\n
          \n
          That kind of poses the second question as to what, in the interim, will be cut as per budget, but that’s a sidenote. I guarantee you without change far reaching enough to societally gain a new understanding of public space and roads, when the last speed cam is dismantled you’ll find all the roads still suck ass and will not be redesigned. Once you have the change so far reaching that you can reunderstand basically every road, yeah, then you don’t need the traffic cams anymore and they can be dismantled.
          """
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2322
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          > Meanwhile, in the real world we must be concerned with actually viable change.\n
          \n
          Real Zach Brannigan hours here on account of “It might get a lot of other people killed but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make”\n
          \n
          > You are inventing a fantasy reality to suit an anti car obsession. One I share, car reduction is good. However you’re being a tit now.\n
          \n
          What part of this is fantasy. Like where do you see the political potential for a nigh nationwide road redesign.
          """
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2294
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          > This is the weird fantasy part I was referring to. It’s like, just nonsense. It comes off like an american attitude being ported to the UK with absolutely no adaptation whatsoever to British conditions. Our conditions are nothing like america. Getting rid of cameras and getting traffic calming measures installed instead is not particularly difficult, it’s about the same. This idea of complete and widespread reinterpretation of public space? It doesn’t make sense here.\n
          \n
          I’m german tho.\n
          \n
          > By American standards it would be considered idyllic.\n
          \n
          As such, I do not believe american standards as per roads are anything to go by\n
          \n
          > Parts of the road already have traffic calming measures.\n
          \n
          That’s not really gonna stop anybody from speeding down the remaining lane(s) because they’re still very wide. It’s good for pedestrians, probably, don’t get me wrong, doesn’t really fight the speeding problem at all.\n
          \n
          > This is very easily expanded upon with the addition of chicanes, which are in wide use (hundreds of thousands) across the country.\n
          \n
          These do\n
          \n
          > There’s no “reimagining” needed here. People don’t need to develop a new consciousness of public space.\n
          \n
          Those are very much spotwork as per slowing down cars. They work for that spot, yes. It is however absolutely not hard to accelerate a car again. This is a good idea to slow people down before a busy or a school crossing or something, the third picture especially is just going to lead to slow down / wait -&gt; mash gas pedal\n
          \n
          > We do not live in a country that is utterly obsessed with cars like america.\n
          \n
          True, but also nigh about the lowest bar to clear right after like Saudi Arabia.\n
          \n
          > There are zero political barriers to this, the only barrier is the profit/revenue barrier of the traffic camera obsessed crowd.\n
          \n
          And you accuse me of living in some fantasy reality?\n
          \n
          > In every town, in every village, in every city. Outisde every school. In every residential area. All over the country.\n
          \n
          Same, could find similar features here by looking out my old apartments window. Hell, do you one better than that, we have shit like this\n
          \n
          ![](https://hexbear.net/pictrs/image/da817aa1-0f08-452f-9f76-95587ddeb3e0.png)\n
          \n
          Sorry for the grainy pictures, didn’t wanna spend that much time on google. Now that’s a road you can’t speed on, on account of many chicanes and other built up enviroments, not just the single one and then it’s open road before and after.\n
          \n
          Doesn’t mean the rest of it isn’t incredibly car brained and hostile, and as such, transportation by foot or cycling sucks major ass.\n
          \n
          If your vision of not being carbrained is “do better than the USA”, yeah, you’re there, but that shouldn’t be the end goal
          """
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    ]
    -id: 27607
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      date: 2024-01-06 13:45:17.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2094 …}
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  +body: "It’s a bad TL;DR but they do lay out why it’s illegal"
  +lang: "en"
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    "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
    "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
    "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
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    date: 2024-01-07 20:56:29.0 +01:00
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2092
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2549 …}
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    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2694 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2695 …}
    +slug: "Speed-camera-cut-down-for-second-time-in-Cornwall"
    +title: "Speed camera cut down for second time in Cornwall"
    +url: "https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj5g1elz57qo"
    +body: "It’s insane the lengths that some people will go to save a few seconds on their commute, while also endangering others."
    +type: "link"
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    +isOc: false
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    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2714 …}
    +children: [
      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: "I mean so what’s to be done then. I agree on “redesign pretty much every street or road” but like, until then, it’s just a great big free for all?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
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        -id: 288370
        -bodyTs: "'agre':11 'big':29 'done':8 'everi':16 'free':30 'great':28 'like':21 'mean':2 'much':15 'pretti':14 'redesign':13 'road':19 'street':17"
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          date: 2024-01-07 11:43:26.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 288370
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
        +body: """
          > The US, for instance, doesn’t have speed cameras\n
          \n
          That’s just straight up wrong.
          """
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2024-01-07 12:01:02.0 +01:00
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          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1708 …}
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        -id: 288397
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          date: 2024-01-07 12:01:02.0 +01:00
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
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        +body: "Speaking from germany, 33 in a 30 wouldn’t even trip the speed cams here. Earliest infraction is basically doing 6mph over on a 30mph road, which would come at 50€ fine. We apparently also have 50 times less speed cameras and it absolutely does not stop people from fucking malding over them. They have to be designed bulletproof here now and even those still get regularly blown up. None of the points you raise change anything about it, because the core issue is people are terminally car brained"
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          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
          "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Saff@lemmy.ml"
        ]
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        -bodyTs: "'30':7 '30mph':25 '33':4 '50':31,37 '6mph':21 'absolut':44 'also':35 'anyth':77 'appar':34 'basic':19 'blown':68 'brain':89 'bulletproof':59 'cam':14 'camera':41 'car':88 'chang':76 'come':29 'core':82 'design':58 'earliest':16 'even':10,63 'fine':32 'fuck':50 'germani':3 'get':66 'infract':17 'issu':83 'less':39 'mald':51 'none':70 'peopl':48,85 'point':73 'rais':75 'regular':67 'road':26 'speak':1 'speed':13,40 'still':65 'stop':47 'termin':87 'time':38 'trip':11 'would':28 'wouldn':8"
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          date: 2024-01-07 15:15:31.0 +01:00
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: "I’m not sure if you’re being serious here"
        +lang: "en"
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2032 …}
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        -id: 289601
        -bodyTs: "'m':2 're':7 'serious':9 'sure':4"
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:25:09.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 289601
      }
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2035 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: """
          > Why not?\n
          \n
          Because that’s hardly what can be considered a realistic solution. Again, not against it, but what, are you gonna close down like 90% of roads? Only some of them, if so, which ones, and how is stuff handled on the ones that remain open?
          """
        +lang: "en"
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2031 …}
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        -bodyTs: "'90':26 'close':23 'consid':10 'gonna':22 'handl':41 'hard':6 'like':25 'one':36,44 'open':47 'realist':12 'remain':46 'road':28 'solut':13 'stuff':40"
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:42:56.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 289649
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: """
          > just roads that “require” speed cameras.\n
          \n
          So when’s that the case or not
          """
        +lang: "en"
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2081 …}
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        -id: 289695
        -bodyTs: "'camera':6 'case':12 'requir':4 'road':2 'speed':5"
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:58:47.0 +01:00
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2092}
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2351
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
        +body: "What’s your usual transportation method?"
        +lang: "en"
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          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
          "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
        ]
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        +"title": 291985
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      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2327
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2329 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2333 …}
        +body: """
          > You want people to actually slow down? Redesign the road.\n
          \n
          I’ve posed this question elsewhere in this thread and: what until then? Like what do you do until a good, what, 50 - 90% of road depending on criteria, is redesigned?
          """
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
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        -id: 291989
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        +"title": 291989
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2143
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        +body: """
          > Croydon council responded to FOI request stating it costs £2.5-£3.5k to install traffic islands. The cost of a speed camera installation on the other hand is £85,000 according to Bedford Council, with a £5000 annual upkeep cost.\n
          \n
          Croydon cites average cost for roughly such an action at 2,5k - 3,5k in a denial of the FOI request which means there’s pretty much no way to know how much it actually costs depending on what they calculate the average on and if you have any idea about the cost of public works that number should strike you as very, very oddly low.\n
          \n
          Wiltshire government [here](https://www.wiltshire.gov.uk/article/1281/Costs-of-highway-works) cites about 45.000k for a traffic island narrowing a road to one lane, all in all.\n
          \n
          The source you cite for the cameras, however, puts those costs for 2 cameras, so 42,500 a pop / 2500 upkeep annual, albeit with returns via fines obviously.
          """
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          > The process and length of time it takes for either option are practically the same.\n
          \n
          Sure, but you’re arguing for like instant speed camera abolishment or destruction here, aye?\n
          \n
          > Not to mention a traffic island costs like £3k while a camera costs £85k (guess why they pick the camera despite the price).\n
          \n
          Dunno if you got to that one already but I’ve did a reply pointing out where you’re a bit off there
          """
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          You can just say yes, you don’t have to couch this shit in a good WKUK skit.\n
          \n
          Do they do harm to the poor that are on bicycles, or walking, then?
          """
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2118
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        +body: """
          > Having been to court twice for online related stuff I will absolutely couch this shit.\n
          \n
          Fair, I meant it more on “don’t do it on my accord”\n
          \n
          > I do not see how that question is doing anything but attempting some sort of gotcha or accusation that these people\n
          \n
          Your these people just seems to have some very oddly drawn lines is the heart of it. It does include poor drivers, to whom speed cameras are a problem and not that much of a solution, it does not seem to include poor people not in a car, who profit from this. My FALGSOC doesn’t have speed cameras in it - who’s would - but it’s a long way from here to there.\n
          \n
          > deserve to be fucked over instead of have real designs that don’t result in their lives being made harder. It seems like spite to me.\n
          \n
          This is running on the assumption that I think people deserve to be fucked over for speeding, and that’s the main motivation. Sure, some of them, but that’s not the kind of distinction a speed cam could make on account of how it works. I’d very much be open to them not issuing fines but other punishments - as appropiate - to not make them so classist. Loss of driving license, if you really, really fuck up in a sports car that gets impounded or such, but I’ll concede, even that is far out from today, but just to point it out,\n
          \n
          My point here is that for every one it fucks over, it helps other people not being fucked over, because it does do something against speeding. My line of reasoning for speed cams is not that it fucks people over, it’s that it helps people. You wanna focus on the first part, I’m trying to get you to see the issue is more complex than that, at least if you include people outside of cars in your consideration. They’re not a good solution, by any means, again, I assume our optimal way of solving it is quite similar. For the meantime though, the fuck else do you do? Just abandon all traffic enforcement until all the roads get fixed? So what, 20 years of being vulnerable road users being even more endangered than now?
          """
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          > A negative in the short term leads to a longterm positive.\n
          \n
          I do not want to die a martyr to the fight against traffic cams.\n
          \n
          > Also I see no other method of doing this. If you go to the council and say “I want to replace this highly profitable traffic camera making hundreds of thousands per year with a traffic island that will make no money at all” the decision that any team will make internally is obvious.\n
          \n
          That kind of poses the second question as to what, in the interim, will be cut as per budget, but that’s a sidenote. I guarantee you without change far reaching enough to societally gain a new understanding of public space and roads, when the last speed cam is dismantled you’ll find all the roads still suck ass and will not be redesigned. Once you have the change so far reaching that you can reunderstand basically every road, yeah, then you don’t need the traffic cams anymore and they can be dismantled.
          """
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2322
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          > Meanwhile, in the real world we must be concerned with actually viable change.\n
          \n
          Real Zach Brannigan hours here on account of “It might get a lot of other people killed but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make”\n
          \n
          > You are inventing a fantasy reality to suit an anti car obsession. One I share, car reduction is good. However you’re being a tit now.\n
          \n
          What part of this is fantasy. Like where do you see the political potential for a nigh nationwide road redesign.
          """
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2294
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          > This is the weird fantasy part I was referring to. It’s like, just nonsense. It comes off like an american attitude being ported to the UK with absolutely no adaptation whatsoever to British conditions. Our conditions are nothing like america. Getting rid of cameras and getting traffic calming measures installed instead is not particularly difficult, it’s about the same. This idea of complete and widespread reinterpretation of public space? It doesn’t make sense here.\n
          \n
          I’m german tho.\n
          \n
          > By American standards it would be considered idyllic.\n
          \n
          As such, I do not believe american standards as per roads are anything to go by\n
          \n
          > Parts of the road already have traffic calming measures.\n
          \n
          That’s not really gonna stop anybody from speeding down the remaining lane(s) because they’re still very wide. It’s good for pedestrians, probably, don’t get me wrong, doesn’t really fight the speeding problem at all.\n
          \n
          > This is very easily expanded upon with the addition of chicanes, which are in wide use (hundreds of thousands) across the country.\n
          \n
          These do\n
          \n
          > There’s no “reimagining” needed here. People don’t need to develop a new consciousness of public space.\n
          \n
          Those are very much spotwork as per slowing down cars. They work for that spot, yes. It is however absolutely not hard to accelerate a car again. This is a good idea to slow people down before a busy or a school crossing or something, the third picture especially is just going to lead to slow down / wait -&gt; mash gas pedal\n
          \n
          > We do not live in a country that is utterly obsessed with cars like america.\n
          \n
          True, but also nigh about the lowest bar to clear right after like Saudi Arabia.\n
          \n
          > There are zero political barriers to this, the only barrier is the profit/revenue barrier of the traffic camera obsessed crowd.\n
          \n
          And you accuse me of living in some fantasy reality?\n
          \n
          > In every town, in every village, in every city. Outisde every school. In every residential area. All over the country.\n
          \n
          Same, could find similar features here by looking out my old apartments window. Hell, do you one better than that, we have shit like this\n
          \n
          ![](https://hexbear.net/pictrs/image/da817aa1-0f08-452f-9f76-95587ddeb3e0.png)\n
          \n
          Sorry for the grainy pictures, didn’t wanna spend that much time on google. Now that’s a road you can’t speed on, on account of many chicanes and other built up enviroments, not just the single one and then it’s open road before and after.\n
          \n
          Doesn’t mean the rest of it isn’t incredibly car brained and hostile, and as such, transportation by foot or cycling sucks major ass.\n
          \n
          If your vision of not being carbrained is “do better than the USA”, yeah, you’re there, but that shouldn’t be the end goal
          """
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    ]
    -id: 27607
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      date: 2024-01-06 13:45:17.0 +01:00
    }
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     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
  +image: null
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  +body: "It’s a bad TL;DR but they do lay out why it’s illegal"
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    "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
    "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2351
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2549 …}
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    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2695 …}
    +slug: "Speed-camera-cut-down-for-second-time-in-Cornwall"
    +title: "Speed camera cut down for second time in Cornwall"
    +url: "https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj5g1elz57qo"
    +body: "It’s insane the lengths that some people will go to save a few seconds on their commute, while also endangering others."
    +type: "link"
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    +children: [
      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "I mean so what’s to be done then. I agree on “redesign pretty much every street or road” but like, until then, it’s just a great big free for all?"
        +lang: "en"
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          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
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        -bodyTs: "'agre':11 'big':29 'done':8 'everi':16 'free':30 'great':28 'like':21 'mean':2 'much':15 'pretti':14 'redesign':13 'road':19 'street':17"
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          date: 2024-01-07 11:43:26.0 +01:00
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
        +body: """
          > The US, for instance, doesn’t have speed cameras\n
          \n
          That’s just straight up wrong.
          """
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          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
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        +body: "Speaking from germany, 33 in a 30 wouldn’t even trip the speed cams here. Earliest infraction is basically doing 6mph over on a 30mph road, which would come at 50€ fine. We apparently also have 50 times less speed cameras and it absolutely does not stop people from fucking malding over them. They have to be designed bulletproof here now and even those still get regularly blown up. None of the points you raise change anything about it, because the core issue is people are terminally car brained"
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          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
          "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Saff@lemmy.ml"
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        -bodyTs: "'30':7 '30mph':25 '33':4 '50':31,37 '6mph':21 'absolut':44 'also':35 'anyth':77 'appar':34 'basic':19 'blown':68 'brain':89 'bulletproof':59 'cam':14 'camera':41 'car':88 'chang':76 'come':29 'core':82 'design':58 'earliest':16 'even':10,63 'fine':32 'fuck':50 'germani':3 'get':66 'infract':17 'issu':83 'less':39 'mald':51 'none':70 'peopl':48,85 'point':73 'rais':75 'regular':67 'road':26 'speak':1 'speed':13,40 'still':65 'stop':47 'termin':87 'time':38 'trip':11 'would':28 'wouldn':8"
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: "I’m not sure if you’re being serious here"
        +lang: "en"
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
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        -id: 289601
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:25:09.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 289601
      }
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
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        +body: """
          > Why not?\n
          \n
          Because that’s hardly what can be considered a realistic solution. Again, not against it, but what, are you gonna close down like 90% of roads? Only some of them, if so, which ones, and how is stuff handled on the ones that remain open?
          """
        +lang: "en"
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
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      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
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        +body: """
          > just roads that “require” speed cameras.\n
          \n
          So when’s that the case or not
          """
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          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2092
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        +body: "It’s a bad TL;DR but they do lay out why it’s illegal"
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          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
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      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2351}
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2327
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2333 …}
        +body: """
          > You want people to actually slow down? Redesign the road.\n
          \n
          I’ve posed this question elsewhere in this thread and: what until then? Like what do you do until a good, what, 50 - 90% of road depending on criteria, is redesigned?
          """
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          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
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        -id: 291989
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      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2143
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        +body: """
          > Croydon council responded to FOI request stating it costs £2.5-£3.5k to install traffic islands. The cost of a speed camera installation on the other hand is £85,000 according to Bedford Council, with a £5000 annual upkeep cost.\n
          \n
          Croydon cites average cost for roughly such an action at 2,5k - 3,5k in a denial of the FOI request which means there’s pretty much no way to know how much it actually costs depending on what they calculate the average on and if you have any idea about the cost of public works that number should strike you as very, very oddly low.\n
          \n
          Wiltshire government [here](https://www.wiltshire.gov.uk/article/1281/Costs-of-highway-works) cites about 45.000k for a traffic island narrowing a road to one lane, all in all.\n
          \n
          The source you cite for the cameras, however, puts those costs for 2 cameras, so 42,500 a pop / 2500 upkeep annual, albeit with returns via fines obviously.
          """
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          > The process and length of time it takes for either option are practically the same.\n
          \n
          Sure, but you’re arguing for like instant speed camera abolishment or destruction here, aye?\n
          \n
          > Not to mention a traffic island costs like £3k while a camera costs £85k (guess why they pick the camera despite the price).\n
          \n
          Dunno if you got to that one already but I’ve did a reply pointing out where you’re a bit off there
          """
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          You can just say yes, you don’t have to couch this shit in a good WKUK skit.\n
          \n
          Do they do harm to the poor that are on bicycles, or walking, then?
          """
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2118
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        +body: """
          > Having been to court twice for online related stuff I will absolutely couch this shit.\n
          \n
          Fair, I meant it more on “don’t do it on my accord”\n
          \n
          > I do not see how that question is doing anything but attempting some sort of gotcha or accusation that these people\n
          \n
          Your these people just seems to have some very oddly drawn lines is the heart of it. It does include poor drivers, to whom speed cameras are a problem and not that much of a solution, it does not seem to include poor people not in a car, who profit from this. My FALGSOC doesn’t have speed cameras in it - who’s would - but it’s a long way from here to there.\n
          \n
          > deserve to be fucked over instead of have real designs that don’t result in their lives being made harder. It seems like spite to me.\n
          \n
          This is running on the assumption that I think people deserve to be fucked over for speeding, and that’s the main motivation. Sure, some of them, but that’s not the kind of distinction a speed cam could make on account of how it works. I’d very much be open to them not issuing fines but other punishments - as appropiate - to not make them so classist. Loss of driving license, if you really, really fuck up in a sports car that gets impounded or such, but I’ll concede, even that is far out from today, but just to point it out,\n
          \n
          My point here is that for every one it fucks over, it helps other people not being fucked over, because it does do something against speeding. My line of reasoning for speed cams is not that it fucks people over, it’s that it helps people. You wanna focus on the first part, I’m trying to get you to see the issue is more complex than that, at least if you include people outside of cars in your consideration. They’re not a good solution, by any means, again, I assume our optimal way of solving it is quite similar. For the meantime though, the fuck else do you do? Just abandon all traffic enforcement until all the roads get fixed? So what, 20 years of being vulnerable road users being even more endangered than now?
          """
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          > A negative in the short term leads to a longterm positive.\n
          \n
          I do not want to die a martyr to the fight against traffic cams.\n
          \n
          > Also I see no other method of doing this. If you go to the council and say “I want to replace this highly profitable traffic camera making hundreds of thousands per year with a traffic island that will make no money at all” the decision that any team will make internally is obvious.\n
          \n
          That kind of poses the second question as to what, in the interim, will be cut as per budget, but that’s a sidenote. I guarantee you without change far reaching enough to societally gain a new understanding of public space and roads, when the last speed cam is dismantled you’ll find all the roads still suck ass and will not be redesigned. Once you have the change so far reaching that you can reunderstand basically every road, yeah, then you don’t need the traffic cams anymore and they can be dismantled.
          """
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2322
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          > Meanwhile, in the real world we must be concerned with actually viable change.\n
          \n
          Real Zach Brannigan hours here on account of “It might get a lot of other people killed but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make”\n
          \n
          > You are inventing a fantasy reality to suit an anti car obsession. One I share, car reduction is good. However you’re being a tit now.\n
          \n
          What part of this is fantasy. Like where do you see the political potential for a nigh nationwide road redesign.
          """
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2294
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          > This is the weird fantasy part I was referring to. It’s like, just nonsense. It comes off like an american attitude being ported to the UK with absolutely no adaptation whatsoever to British conditions. Our conditions are nothing like america. Getting rid of cameras and getting traffic calming measures installed instead is not particularly difficult, it’s about the same. This idea of complete and widespread reinterpretation of public space? It doesn’t make sense here.\n
          \n
          I’m german tho.\n
          \n
          > By American standards it would be considered idyllic.\n
          \n
          As such, I do not believe american standards as per roads are anything to go by\n
          \n
          > Parts of the road already have traffic calming measures.\n
          \n
          That’s not really gonna stop anybody from speeding down the remaining lane(s) because they’re still very wide. It’s good for pedestrians, probably, don’t get me wrong, doesn’t really fight the speeding problem at all.\n
          \n
          > This is very easily expanded upon with the addition of chicanes, which are in wide use (hundreds of thousands) across the country.\n
          \n
          These do\n
          \n
          > There’s no “reimagining” needed here. People don’t need to develop a new consciousness of public space.\n
          \n
          Those are very much spotwork as per slowing down cars. They work for that spot, yes. It is however absolutely not hard to accelerate a car again. This is a good idea to slow people down before a busy or a school crossing or something, the third picture especially is just going to lead to slow down / wait -&gt; mash gas pedal\n
          \n
          > We do not live in a country that is utterly obsessed with cars like america.\n
          \n
          True, but also nigh about the lowest bar to clear right after like Saudi Arabia.\n
          \n
          > There are zero political barriers to this, the only barrier is the profit/revenue barrier of the traffic camera obsessed crowd.\n
          \n
          And you accuse me of living in some fantasy reality?\n
          \n
          > In every town, in every village, in every city. Outisde every school. In every residential area. All over the country.\n
          \n
          Same, could find similar features here by looking out my old apartments window. Hell, do you one better than that, we have shit like this\n
          \n
          ![](https://hexbear.net/pictrs/image/da817aa1-0f08-452f-9f76-95587ddeb3e0.png)\n
          \n
          Sorry for the grainy pictures, didn’t wanna spend that much time on google. Now that’s a road you can’t speed on, on account of many chicanes and other built up enviroments, not just the single one and then it’s open road before and after.\n
          \n
          Doesn’t mean the rest of it isn’t incredibly car brained and hostile, and as such, transportation by foot or cycling sucks major ass.\n
          \n
          If your vision of not being carbrained is “do better than the USA”, yeah, you’re there, but that shouldn’t be the end goal
          """
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    ]
    -id: 27607
    -titleTs: "'camera':2 'cornwal':9 'cut':3 'second':6 'speed':1 'time':7"
    -bodyTs: "'also':20 'commut':18 'endang':21 'go':10 'insan':3 'length':5 'other':22 'peopl':8 'save':12 'second':15"
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      date: 2024-01-06 13:45:17.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2347 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
  +body: "What’s your usual transportation method?"
  +lang: "en"
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    date: 2024-01-08 17:03:55.0 +01:00
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    "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
    "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
    "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2332 …}
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    date: 2024-01-08 17:03:55.0 +01:00
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2351
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2549 …}
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    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2694 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2695 …}
    +slug: "Speed-camera-cut-down-for-second-time-in-Cornwall"
    +title: "Speed camera cut down for second time in Cornwall"
    +url: "https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj5g1elz57qo"
    +body: "It’s insane the lengths that some people will go to save a few seconds on their commute, while also endangering others."
    +type: "link"
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    +isOc: false
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    +children: [
      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: "I mean so what’s to be done then. I agree on “redesign pretty much every street or road” but like, until then, it’s just a great big free for all?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
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        -id: 288370
        -bodyTs: "'agre':11 'big':29 'done':8 'everi':16 'free':30 'great':28 'like':21 'mean':2 'much':15 'pretti':14 'redesign':13 'road':19 'street':17"
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          date: 2024-01-07 11:43:26.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 288370
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
        +body: """
          > The US, for instance, doesn’t have speed cameras\n
          \n
          That’s just straight up wrong.
          """
        +lang: "en"
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          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
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        -id: 288397
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          date: 2024-01-07 12:01:02.0 +01:00
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
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        +body: "Speaking from germany, 33 in a 30 wouldn’t even trip the speed cams here. Earliest infraction is basically doing 6mph over on a 30mph road, which would come at 50€ fine. We apparently also have 50 times less speed cameras and it absolutely does not stop people from fucking malding over them. They have to be designed bulletproof here now and even those still get regularly blown up. None of the points you raise change anything about it, because the core issue is people are terminally car brained"
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          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
          "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Saff@lemmy.ml"
        ]
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        -id: 288725
        -bodyTs: "'30':7 '30mph':25 '33':4 '50':31,37 '6mph':21 'absolut':44 'also':35 'anyth':77 'appar':34 'basic':19 'blown':68 'brain':89 'bulletproof':59 'cam':14 'camera':41 'car':88 'chang':76 'come':29 'core':82 'design':58 'earliest':16 'even':10,63 'fine':32 'fuck':50 'germani':3 'get':66 'infract':17 'issu':83 'less':39 'mald':51 'none':70 'peopl':48,85 'point':73 'rais':75 'regular':67 'road':26 'speak':1 'speed':13,40 'still':65 'stop':47 'termin':87 'time':38 'trip':11 'would':28 'wouldn':8"
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          date: 2024-01-07 15:15:31.0 +01:00
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2030 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: "I’m not sure if you’re being serious here"
        +lang: "en"
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2032 …}
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        -id: 289601
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:25:09.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 289601
      }
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2035 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: """
          > Why not?\n
          \n
          Because that’s hardly what can be considered a realistic solution. Again, not against it, but what, are you gonna close down like 90% of roads? Only some of them, if so, which ones, and how is stuff handled on the ones that remain open?
          """
        +lang: "en"
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2031 …}
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        -bodyTs: "'90':26 'close':23 'consid':10 'gonna':22 'handl':41 'hard':6 'like':25 'one':36,44 'open':47 'realist':12 'remain':46 'road':28 'solut':13 'stuff':40"
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:42:56.0 +01:00
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      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2062 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: """
          > just roads that “require” speed cameras.\n
          \n
          So when’s that the case or not
          """
        +lang: "en"
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2081 …}
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        -id: 289695
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:58:47.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 289695
      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2092
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "It’s a bad TL;DR but they do lay out why it’s illegal"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
          "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
        ]
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      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2351}
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2327
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2329 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2333 …}
        +body: """
          > You want people to actually slow down? Redesign the road.\n
          \n
          I’ve posed this question elsewhere in this thread and: what until then? Like what do you do until a good, what, 50 - 90% of road depending on criteria, is redesigned?
          """
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
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        -id: 291989
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        }
        +"title": 291989
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2143
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        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2333 …}
        +body: """
          > Croydon council responded to FOI request stating it costs £2.5-£3.5k to install traffic islands. The cost of a speed camera installation on the other hand is £85,000 according to Bedford Council, with a £5000 annual upkeep cost.\n
          \n
          Croydon cites average cost for roughly such an action at 2,5k - 3,5k in a denial of the FOI request which means there’s pretty much no way to know how much it actually costs depending on what they calculate the average on and if you have any idea about the cost of public works that number should strike you as very, very oddly low.\n
          \n
          Wiltshire government [here](https://www.wiltshire.gov.uk/article/1281/Costs-of-highway-works) cites about 45.000k for a traffic island narrowing a road to one lane, all in all.\n
          \n
          The source you cite for the cameras, however, puts those costs for 2 cameras, so 42,500 a pop / 2500 upkeep annual, albeit with returns via fines obviously.
          """
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          > The process and length of time it takes for either option are practically the same.\n
          \n
          Sure, but you’re arguing for like instant speed camera abolishment or destruction here, aye?\n
          \n
          > Not to mention a traffic island costs like £3k while a camera costs £85k (guess why they pick the camera despite the price).\n
          \n
          Dunno if you got to that one already but I’ve did a reply pointing out where you’re a bit off there
          """
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          You can just say yes, you don’t have to couch this shit in a good WKUK skit.\n
          \n
          Do they do harm to the poor that are on bicycles, or walking, then?
          """
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2118
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        +body: """
          > Having been to court twice for online related stuff I will absolutely couch this shit.\n
          \n
          Fair, I meant it more on “don’t do it on my accord”\n
          \n
          > I do not see how that question is doing anything but attempting some sort of gotcha or accusation that these people\n
          \n
          Your these people just seems to have some very oddly drawn lines is the heart of it. It does include poor drivers, to whom speed cameras are a problem and not that much of a solution, it does not seem to include poor people not in a car, who profit from this. My FALGSOC doesn’t have speed cameras in it - who’s would - but it’s a long way from here to there.\n
          \n
          > deserve to be fucked over instead of have real designs that don’t result in their lives being made harder. It seems like spite to me.\n
          \n
          This is running on the assumption that I think people deserve to be fucked over for speeding, and that’s the main motivation. Sure, some of them, but that’s not the kind of distinction a speed cam could make on account of how it works. I’d very much be open to them not issuing fines but other punishments - as appropiate - to not make them so classist. Loss of driving license, if you really, really fuck up in a sports car that gets impounded or such, but I’ll concede, even that is far out from today, but just to point it out,\n
          \n
          My point here is that for every one it fucks over, it helps other people not being fucked over, because it does do something against speeding. My line of reasoning for speed cams is not that it fucks people over, it’s that it helps people. You wanna focus on the first part, I’m trying to get you to see the issue is more complex than that, at least if you include people outside of cars in your consideration. They’re not a good solution, by any means, again, I assume our optimal way of solving it is quite similar. For the meantime though, the fuck else do you do? Just abandon all traffic enforcement until all the roads get fixed? So what, 20 years of being vulnerable road users being even more endangered than now?
          """
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          > A negative in the short term leads to a longterm positive.\n
          \n
          I do not want to die a martyr to the fight against traffic cams.\n
          \n
          > Also I see no other method of doing this. If you go to the council and say “I want to replace this highly profitable traffic camera making hundreds of thousands per year with a traffic island that will make no money at all” the decision that any team will make internally is obvious.\n
          \n
          That kind of poses the second question as to what, in the interim, will be cut as per budget, but that’s a sidenote. I guarantee you without change far reaching enough to societally gain a new understanding of public space and roads, when the last speed cam is dismantled you’ll find all the roads still suck ass and will not be redesigned. Once you have the change so far reaching that you can reunderstand basically every road, yeah, then you don’t need the traffic cams anymore and they can be dismantled.
          """
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2322
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          > Meanwhile, in the real world we must be concerned with actually viable change.\n
          \n
          Real Zach Brannigan hours here on account of “It might get a lot of other people killed but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make”\n
          \n
          > You are inventing a fantasy reality to suit an anti car obsession. One I share, car reduction is good. However you’re being a tit now.\n
          \n
          What part of this is fantasy. Like where do you see the political potential for a nigh nationwide road redesign.
          """
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2294
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          > This is the weird fantasy part I was referring to. It’s like, just nonsense. It comes off like an american attitude being ported to the UK with absolutely no adaptation whatsoever to British conditions. Our conditions are nothing like america. Getting rid of cameras and getting traffic calming measures installed instead is not particularly difficult, it’s about the same. This idea of complete and widespread reinterpretation of public space? It doesn’t make sense here.\n
          \n
          I’m german tho.\n
          \n
          > By American standards it would be considered idyllic.\n
          \n
          As such, I do not believe american standards as per roads are anything to go by\n
          \n
          > Parts of the road already have traffic calming measures.\n
          \n
          That’s not really gonna stop anybody from speeding down the remaining lane(s) because they’re still very wide. It’s good for pedestrians, probably, don’t get me wrong, doesn’t really fight the speeding problem at all.\n
          \n
          > This is very easily expanded upon with the addition of chicanes, which are in wide use (hundreds of thousands) across the country.\n
          \n
          These do\n
          \n
          > There’s no “reimagining” needed here. People don’t need to develop a new consciousness of public space.\n
          \n
          Those are very much spotwork as per slowing down cars. They work for that spot, yes. It is however absolutely not hard to accelerate a car again. This is a good idea to slow people down before a busy or a school crossing or something, the third picture especially is just going to lead to slow down / wait -&gt; mash gas pedal\n
          \n
          > We do not live in a country that is utterly obsessed with cars like america.\n
          \n
          True, but also nigh about the lowest bar to clear right after like Saudi Arabia.\n
          \n
          > There are zero political barriers to this, the only barrier is the profit/revenue barrier of the traffic camera obsessed crowd.\n
          \n
          And you accuse me of living in some fantasy reality?\n
          \n
          > In every town, in every village, in every city. Outisde every school. In every residential area. All over the country.\n
          \n
          Same, could find similar features here by looking out my old apartments window. Hell, do you one better than that, we have shit like this\n
          \n
          ![](https://hexbear.net/pictrs/image/da817aa1-0f08-452f-9f76-95587ddeb3e0.png)\n
          \n
          Sorry for the grainy pictures, didn’t wanna spend that much time on google. Now that’s a road you can’t speed on, on account of many chicanes and other built up enviroments, not just the single one and then it’s open road before and after.\n
          \n
          Doesn’t mean the rest of it isn’t incredibly car brained and hostile, and as such, transportation by foot or cycling sucks major ass.\n
          \n
          If your vision of not being carbrained is “do better than the USA”, yeah, you’re there, but that shouldn’t be the end goal
          """
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    ]
    -id: 27607
    -titleTs: "'camera':2 'cornwal':9 'cut':3 'second':6 'speed':1 'time':7"
    -bodyTs: "'also':20 'commut':18 'endang':21 'go':10 'insan':3 'length':5 'other':22 'peopl':8 'save':12 'second':15"
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      date: 2024-01-06 13:45:17.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2347 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
  +body: "What’s your usual transportation method?"
  +lang: "en"
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    date: 2024-01-08 17:03:55.0 +01:00
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    "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
    "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
    "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2332 …}
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    date: 2024-01-08 17:03:55.0 +01:00
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2351
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2549 …}
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    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2694 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2695 …}
    +slug: "Speed-camera-cut-down-for-second-time-in-Cornwall"
    +title: "Speed camera cut down for second time in Cornwall"
    +url: "https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj5g1elz57qo"
    +body: "It’s insane the lengths that some people will go to save a few seconds on their commute, while also endangering others."
    +type: "link"
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    +isOc: false
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    +children: [
      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: "I mean so what’s to be done then. I agree on “redesign pretty much every street or road” but like, until then, it’s just a great big free for all?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
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        -id: 288370
        -bodyTs: "'agre':11 'big':29 'done':8 'everi':16 'free':30 'great':28 'like':21 'mean':2 'much':15 'pretti':14 'redesign':13 'road':19 'street':17"
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          date: 2024-01-07 11:43:26.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 288370
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
        +body: """
          > The US, for instance, doesn’t have speed cameras\n
          \n
          That’s just straight up wrong.
          """
        +lang: "en"
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          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
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        -id: 288397
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          date: 2024-01-07 12:01:02.0 +01:00
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
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        +body: "Speaking from germany, 33 in a 30 wouldn’t even trip the speed cams here. Earliest infraction is basically doing 6mph over on a 30mph road, which would come at 50€ fine. We apparently also have 50 times less speed cameras and it absolutely does not stop people from fucking malding over them. They have to be designed bulletproof here now and even those still get regularly blown up. None of the points you raise change anything about it, because the core issue is people are terminally car brained"
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          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
          "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Saff@lemmy.ml"
        ]
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        -id: 288725
        -bodyTs: "'30':7 '30mph':25 '33':4 '50':31,37 '6mph':21 'absolut':44 'also':35 'anyth':77 'appar':34 'basic':19 'blown':68 'brain':89 'bulletproof':59 'cam':14 'camera':41 'car':88 'chang':76 'come':29 'core':82 'design':58 'earliest':16 'even':10,63 'fine':32 'fuck':50 'germani':3 'get':66 'infract':17 'issu':83 'less':39 'mald':51 'none':70 'peopl':48,85 'point':73 'rais':75 'regular':67 'road':26 'speak':1 'speed':13,40 'still':65 'stop':47 'termin':87 'time':38 'trip':11 'would':28 'wouldn':8"
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          date: 2024-01-07 15:15:31.0 +01:00
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2030 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: "I’m not sure if you’re being serious here"
        +lang: "en"
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2032 …}
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        -id: 289601
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:25:09.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 289601
      }
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2035 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: """
          > Why not?\n
          \n
          Because that’s hardly what can be considered a realistic solution. Again, not against it, but what, are you gonna close down like 90% of roads? Only some of them, if so, which ones, and how is stuff handled on the ones that remain open?
          """
        +lang: "en"
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2031 …}
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        -bodyTs: "'90':26 'close':23 'consid':10 'gonna':22 'handl':41 'hard':6 'like':25 'one':36,44 'open':47 'realist':12 'remain':46 'road':28 'solut':13 'stuff':40"
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:42:56.0 +01:00
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      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2062 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: """
          > just roads that “require” speed cameras.\n
          \n
          So when’s that the case or not
          """
        +lang: "en"
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2081 …}
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        -id: 289695
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:58:47.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 289695
      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2092
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "It’s a bad TL;DR but they do lay out why it’s illegal"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
          "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
        ]
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      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2351}
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2327
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2329 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2333 …}
        +body: """
          > You want people to actually slow down? Redesign the road.\n
          \n
          I’ve posed this question elsewhere in this thread and: what until then? Like what do you do until a good, what, 50 - 90% of road depending on criteria, is redesigned?
          """
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
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        -id: 291989
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        }
        +"title": 291989
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2143
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        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2333 …}
        +body: """
          > Croydon council responded to FOI request stating it costs £2.5-£3.5k to install traffic islands. The cost of a speed camera installation on the other hand is £85,000 according to Bedford Council, with a £5000 annual upkeep cost.\n
          \n
          Croydon cites average cost for roughly such an action at 2,5k - 3,5k in a denial of the FOI request which means there’s pretty much no way to know how much it actually costs depending on what they calculate the average on and if you have any idea about the cost of public works that number should strike you as very, very oddly low.\n
          \n
          Wiltshire government [here](https://www.wiltshire.gov.uk/article/1281/Costs-of-highway-works) cites about 45.000k for a traffic island narrowing a road to one lane, all in all.\n
          \n
          The source you cite for the cameras, however, puts those costs for 2 cameras, so 42,500 a pop / 2500 upkeep annual, albeit with returns via fines obviously.
          """
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          > The process and length of time it takes for either option are practically the same.\n
          \n
          Sure, but you’re arguing for like instant speed camera abolishment or destruction here, aye?\n
          \n
          > Not to mention a traffic island costs like £3k while a camera costs £85k (guess why they pick the camera despite the price).\n
          \n
          Dunno if you got to that one already but I’ve did a reply pointing out where you’re a bit off there
          """
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          You can just say yes, you don’t have to couch this shit in a good WKUK skit.\n
          \n
          Do they do harm to the poor that are on bicycles, or walking, then?
          """
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2118
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        +body: """
          > Having been to court twice for online related stuff I will absolutely couch this shit.\n
          \n
          Fair, I meant it more on “don’t do it on my accord”\n
          \n
          > I do not see how that question is doing anything but attempting some sort of gotcha or accusation that these people\n
          \n
          Your these people just seems to have some very oddly drawn lines is the heart of it. It does include poor drivers, to whom speed cameras are a problem and not that much of a solution, it does not seem to include poor people not in a car, who profit from this. My FALGSOC doesn’t have speed cameras in it - who’s would - but it’s a long way from here to there.\n
          \n
          > deserve to be fucked over instead of have real designs that don’t result in their lives being made harder. It seems like spite to me.\n
          \n
          This is running on the assumption that I think people deserve to be fucked over for speeding, and that’s the main motivation. Sure, some of them, but that’s not the kind of distinction a speed cam could make on account of how it works. I’d very much be open to them not issuing fines but other punishments - as appropiate - to not make them so classist. Loss of driving license, if you really, really fuck up in a sports car that gets impounded or such, but I’ll concede, even that is far out from today, but just to point it out,\n
          \n
          My point here is that for every one it fucks over, it helps other people not being fucked over, because it does do something against speeding. My line of reasoning for speed cams is not that it fucks people over, it’s that it helps people. You wanna focus on the first part, I’m trying to get you to see the issue is more complex than that, at least if you include people outside of cars in your consideration. They’re not a good solution, by any means, again, I assume our optimal way of solving it is quite similar. For the meantime though, the fuck else do you do? Just abandon all traffic enforcement until all the roads get fixed? So what, 20 years of being vulnerable road users being even more endangered than now?
          """
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          > A negative in the short term leads to a longterm positive.\n
          \n
          I do not want to die a martyr to the fight against traffic cams.\n
          \n
          > Also I see no other method of doing this. If you go to the council and say “I want to replace this highly profitable traffic camera making hundreds of thousands per year with a traffic island that will make no money at all” the decision that any team will make internally is obvious.\n
          \n
          That kind of poses the second question as to what, in the interim, will be cut as per budget, but that’s a sidenote. I guarantee you without change far reaching enough to societally gain a new understanding of public space and roads, when the last speed cam is dismantled you’ll find all the roads still suck ass and will not be redesigned. Once you have the change so far reaching that you can reunderstand basically every road, yeah, then you don’t need the traffic cams anymore and they can be dismantled.
          """
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2322
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          > Meanwhile, in the real world we must be concerned with actually viable change.\n
          \n
          Real Zach Brannigan hours here on account of “It might get a lot of other people killed but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make”\n
          \n
          > You are inventing a fantasy reality to suit an anti car obsession. One I share, car reduction is good. However you’re being a tit now.\n
          \n
          What part of this is fantasy. Like where do you see the political potential for a nigh nationwide road redesign.
          """
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2294
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          > This is the weird fantasy part I was referring to. It’s like, just nonsense. It comes off like an american attitude being ported to the UK with absolutely no adaptation whatsoever to British conditions. Our conditions are nothing like america. Getting rid of cameras and getting traffic calming measures installed instead is not particularly difficult, it’s about the same. This idea of complete and widespread reinterpretation of public space? It doesn’t make sense here.\n
          \n
          I’m german tho.\n
          \n
          > By American standards it would be considered idyllic.\n
          \n
          As such, I do not believe american standards as per roads are anything to go by\n
          \n
          > Parts of the road already have traffic calming measures.\n
          \n
          That’s not really gonna stop anybody from speeding down the remaining lane(s) because they’re still very wide. It’s good for pedestrians, probably, don’t get me wrong, doesn’t really fight the speeding problem at all.\n
          \n
          > This is very easily expanded upon with the addition of chicanes, which are in wide use (hundreds of thousands) across the country.\n
          \n
          These do\n
          \n
          > There’s no “reimagining” needed here. People don’t need to develop a new consciousness of public space.\n
          \n
          Those are very much spotwork as per slowing down cars. They work for that spot, yes. It is however absolutely not hard to accelerate a car again. This is a good idea to slow people down before a busy or a school crossing or something, the third picture especially is just going to lead to slow down / wait -&gt; mash gas pedal\n
          \n
          > We do not live in a country that is utterly obsessed with cars like america.\n
          \n
          True, but also nigh about the lowest bar to clear right after like Saudi Arabia.\n
          \n
          > There are zero political barriers to this, the only barrier is the profit/revenue barrier of the traffic camera obsessed crowd.\n
          \n
          And you accuse me of living in some fantasy reality?\n
          \n
          > In every town, in every village, in every city. Outisde every school. In every residential area. All over the country.\n
          \n
          Same, could find similar features here by looking out my old apartments window. Hell, do you one better than that, we have shit like this\n
          \n
          ![](https://hexbear.net/pictrs/image/da817aa1-0f08-452f-9f76-95587ddeb3e0.png)\n
          \n
          Sorry for the grainy pictures, didn’t wanna spend that much time on google. Now that’s a road you can’t speed on, on account of many chicanes and other built up enviroments, not just the single one and then it’s open road before and after.\n
          \n
          Doesn’t mean the rest of it isn’t incredibly car brained and hostile, and as such, transportation by foot or cycling sucks major ass.\n
          \n
          If your vision of not being carbrained is “do better than the USA”, yeah, you’re there, but that shouldn’t be the end goal
          """
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        +ranking: 0
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    ]
    -id: 27607
    -titleTs: "'camera':2 'cornwal':9 'cut':3 'second':6 'speed':1 'time':7"
    -bodyTs: "'also':20 'commut':18 'endang':21 'go':10 'insan':3 'length':5 'other':22 'peopl':8 'save':12 'second':15"
    +cross: false
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      date: 2024-01-06 13:45:17.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2347 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
  +body: "What’s your usual transportation method?"
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
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    date: 2024-01-08 17:03:55.0 +01:00
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    "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
    "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
    "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2332 …}
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2327
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2549 …}
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    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2694 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2695 …}
    +slug: "Speed-camera-cut-down-for-second-time-in-Cornwall"
    +title: "Speed camera cut down for second time in Cornwall"
    +url: "https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj5g1elz57qo"
    +body: "It’s insane the lengths that some people will go to save a few seconds on their commute, while also endangering others."
    +type: "link"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: false
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      date: 2024-01-11 17:32:35.0 +01:00
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    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2714 …}
    +children: [
      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: "I mean so what’s to be done then. I agree on “redesign pretty much every street or road” but like, until then, it’s just a great big free for all?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
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        -id: 288370
        -bodyTs: "'agre':11 'big':29 'done':8 'everi':16 'free':30 'great':28 'like':21 'mean':2 'much':15 'pretti':14 'redesign':13 'road':19 'street':17"
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          date: 2024-01-07 11:43:26.0 +01:00
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
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        +body: """
          > The US, for instance, doesn’t have speed cameras\n
          \n
          That’s just straight up wrong.
          """
        +lang: "en"
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          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
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        +body: "Speaking from germany, 33 in a 30 wouldn’t even trip the speed cams here. Earliest infraction is basically doing 6mph over on a 30mph road, which would come at 50€ fine. We apparently also have 50 times less speed cameras and it absolutely does not stop people from fucking malding over them. They have to be designed bulletproof here now and even those still get regularly blown up. None of the points you raise change anything about it, because the core issue is people are terminally car brained"
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          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
          "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Saff@lemmy.ml"
        ]
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        -bodyTs: "'30':7 '30mph':25 '33':4 '50':31,37 '6mph':21 'absolut':44 'also':35 'anyth':77 'appar':34 'basic':19 'blown':68 'brain':89 'bulletproof':59 'cam':14 'camera':41 'car':88 'chang':76 'come':29 'core':82 'design':58 'earliest':16 'even':10,63 'fine':32 'fuck':50 'germani':3 'get':66 'infract':17 'issu':83 'less':39 'mald':51 'none':70 'peopl':48,85 'point':73 'rais':75 'regular':67 'road':26 'speak':1 'speed':13,40 'still':65 'stop':47 'termin':87 'time':38 'trip':11 'would':28 'wouldn':8"
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: "I’m not sure if you’re being serious here"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 3
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2032 …}
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        -id: 289601
        -bodyTs: "'m':2 're':7 'serious':9 'sure':4"
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:25:09.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 289601
      }
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2035 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: """
          > Why not?\n
          \n
          Because that’s hardly what can be considered a realistic solution. Again, not against it, but what, are you gonna close down like 90% of roads? Only some of them, if so, which ones, and how is stuff handled on the ones that remain open?
          """
        +lang: "en"
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2031 …}
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        -bodyTs: "'90':26 'close':23 'consid':10 'gonna':22 'handl':41 'hard':6 'like':25 'one':36,44 'open':47 'realist':12 'remain':46 'road':28 'solut':13 'stuff':40"
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:42:56.0 +01:00
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      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2062 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: """
          > just roads that “require” speed cameras.\n
          \n
          So when’s that the case or not
          """
        +lang: "en"
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
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        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2081 …}
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:58:47.0 +01:00
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2092
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        +body: "It’s a bad TL;DR but they do lay out why it’s illegal"
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          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
          "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
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      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2351
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
        +body: "What’s your usual transportation method?"
        +lang: "en"
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          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
        ]
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      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2327}
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2143
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2135 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2333 …}
        +body: """
          > Croydon council responded to FOI request stating it costs £2.5-£3.5k to install traffic islands. The cost of a speed camera installation on the other hand is £85,000 according to Bedford Council, with a £5000 annual upkeep cost.\n
          \n
          Croydon cites average cost for roughly such an action at 2,5k - 3,5k in a denial of the FOI request which means there’s pretty much no way to know how much it actually costs depending on what they calculate the average on and if you have any idea about the cost of public works that number should strike you as very, very oddly low.\n
          \n
          Wiltshire government [here](https://www.wiltshire.gov.uk/article/1281/Costs-of-highway-works) cites about 45.000k for a traffic island narrowing a road to one lane, all in all.\n
          \n
          The source you cite for the cameras, however, puts those costs for 2 cameras, so 42,500 a pop / 2500 upkeep annual, albeit with returns via fines obviously.
          """
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          > The process and length of time it takes for either option are practically the same.\n
          \n
          Sure, but you’re arguing for like instant speed camera abolishment or destruction here, aye?\n
          \n
          > Not to mention a traffic island costs like £3k while a camera costs £85k (guess why they pick the camera despite the price).\n
          \n
          Dunno if you got to that one already but I’ve did a reply pointing out where you’re a bit off there
          """
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          You can just say yes, you don’t have to couch this shit in a good WKUK skit.\n
          \n
          Do they do harm to the poor that are on bicycles, or walking, then?
          """
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2118
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        +body: """
          > Having been to court twice for online related stuff I will absolutely couch this shit.\n
          \n
          Fair, I meant it more on “don’t do it on my accord”\n
          \n
          > I do not see how that question is doing anything but attempting some sort of gotcha or accusation that these people\n
          \n
          Your these people just seems to have some very oddly drawn lines is the heart of it. It does include poor drivers, to whom speed cameras are a problem and not that much of a solution, it does not seem to include poor people not in a car, who profit from this. My FALGSOC doesn’t have speed cameras in it - who’s would - but it’s a long way from here to there.\n
          \n
          > deserve to be fucked over instead of have real designs that don’t result in their lives being made harder. It seems like spite to me.\n
          \n
          This is running on the assumption that I think people deserve to be fucked over for speeding, and that’s the main motivation. Sure, some of them, but that’s not the kind of distinction a speed cam could make on account of how it works. I’d very much be open to them not issuing fines but other punishments - as appropiate - to not make them so classist. Loss of driving license, if you really, really fuck up in a sports car that gets impounded or such, but I’ll concede, even that is far out from today, but just to point it out,\n
          \n
          My point here is that for every one it fucks over, it helps other people not being fucked over, because it does do something against speeding. My line of reasoning for speed cams is not that it fucks people over, it’s that it helps people. You wanna focus on the first part, I’m trying to get you to see the issue is more complex than that, at least if you include people outside of cars in your consideration. They’re not a good solution, by any means, again, I assume our optimal way of solving it is quite similar. For the meantime though, the fuck else do you do? Just abandon all traffic enforcement until all the roads get fixed? So what, 20 years of being vulnerable road users being even more endangered than now?
          """
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          > A negative in the short term leads to a longterm positive.\n
          \n
          I do not want to die a martyr to the fight against traffic cams.\n
          \n
          > Also I see no other method of doing this. If you go to the council and say “I want to replace this highly profitable traffic camera making hundreds of thousands per year with a traffic island that will make no money at all” the decision that any team will make internally is obvious.\n
          \n
          That kind of poses the second question as to what, in the interim, will be cut as per budget, but that’s a sidenote. I guarantee you without change far reaching enough to societally gain a new understanding of public space and roads, when the last speed cam is dismantled you’ll find all the roads still suck ass and will not be redesigned. Once you have the change so far reaching that you can reunderstand basically every road, yeah, then you don’t need the traffic cams anymore and they can be dismantled.
          """
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2322
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          > Meanwhile, in the real world we must be concerned with actually viable change.\n
          \n
          Real Zach Brannigan hours here on account of “It might get a lot of other people killed but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make”\n
          \n
          > You are inventing a fantasy reality to suit an anti car obsession. One I share, car reduction is good. However you’re being a tit now.\n
          \n
          What part of this is fantasy. Like where do you see the political potential for a nigh nationwide road redesign.
          """
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2294
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          > This is the weird fantasy part I was referring to. It’s like, just nonsense. It comes off like an american attitude being ported to the UK with absolutely no adaptation whatsoever to British conditions. Our conditions are nothing like america. Getting rid of cameras and getting traffic calming measures installed instead is not particularly difficult, it’s about the same. This idea of complete and widespread reinterpretation of public space? It doesn’t make sense here.\n
          \n
          I’m german tho.\n
          \n
          > By American standards it would be considered idyllic.\n
          \n
          As such, I do not believe american standards as per roads are anything to go by\n
          \n
          > Parts of the road already have traffic calming measures.\n
          \n
          That’s not really gonna stop anybody from speeding down the remaining lane(s) because they’re still very wide. It’s good for pedestrians, probably, don’t get me wrong, doesn’t really fight the speeding problem at all.\n
          \n
          > This is very easily expanded upon with the addition of chicanes, which are in wide use (hundreds of thousands) across the country.\n
          \n
          These do\n
          \n
          > There’s no “reimagining” needed here. People don’t need to develop a new consciousness of public space.\n
          \n
          Those are very much spotwork as per slowing down cars. They work for that spot, yes. It is however absolutely not hard to accelerate a car again. This is a good idea to slow people down before a busy or a school crossing or something, the third picture especially is just going to lead to slow down / wait -&gt; mash gas pedal\n
          \n
          > We do not live in a country that is utterly obsessed with cars like america.\n
          \n
          True, but also nigh about the lowest bar to clear right after like Saudi Arabia.\n
          \n
          > There are zero political barriers to this, the only barrier is the profit/revenue barrier of the traffic camera obsessed crowd.\n
          \n
          And you accuse me of living in some fantasy reality?\n
          \n
          > In every town, in every village, in every city. Outisde every school. In every residential area. All over the country.\n
          \n
          Same, could find similar features here by looking out my old apartments window. Hell, do you one better than that, we have shit like this\n
          \n
          ![](https://hexbear.net/pictrs/image/da817aa1-0f08-452f-9f76-95587ddeb3e0.png)\n
          \n
          Sorry for the grainy pictures, didn’t wanna spend that much time on google. Now that’s a road you can’t speed on, on account of many chicanes and other built up enviroments, not just the single one and then it’s open road before and after.\n
          \n
          Doesn’t mean the rest of it isn’t incredibly car brained and hostile, and as such, transportation by foot or cycling sucks major ass.\n
          \n
          If your vision of not being carbrained is “do better than the USA”, yeah, you’re there, but that shouldn’t be the end goal
          """
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    ]
    -id: 27607
    -titleTs: "'camera':2 'cornwal':9 'cut':3 'second':6 'speed':1 'time':7"
    -bodyTs: "'also':20 'commut':18 'endang':21 'go':10 'insan':3 'length':5 'other':22 'peopl':8 'save':12 'second':15"
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
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      date: 2024-01-06 13:45:17.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2329 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2333 …}
  +body: """
    > You want people to actually slow down? Redesign the road.\n
    \n
    I’ve posed this question elsewhere in this thread and: what until then? Like what do you do until a good, what, 50 - 90% of road depending on criteria, is redesigned?
    """
  +lang: "en"
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    "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
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  -id: 291989
  -bodyTs: "'50':33 '90':34 'actual':5 'criteria':39 'depend':37 'elsewher':16 'good':31 'like':24 'peopl':3 'pose':13 'question':15 'redesign':8,41 'road':10,36 'slow':6 'thread':19 've':12 'want':2"
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    date: 2024-01-08 17:07:53.0 +01:00
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  +"title": 291989
}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2327
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2549 …}
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    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2694 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2695 …}
    +slug: "Speed-camera-cut-down-for-second-time-in-Cornwall"
    +title: "Speed camera cut down for second time in Cornwall"
    +url: "https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj5g1elz57qo"
    +body: "It’s insane the lengths that some people will go to save a few seconds on their commute, while also endangering others."
    +type: "link"
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    +children: [
      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: "I mean so what’s to be done then. I agree on “redesign pretty much every street or road” but like, until then, it’s just a great big free for all?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
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          date: 2024-01-07 11:43:26.0 +01:00
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
        +body: """
          > The US, for instance, doesn’t have speed cameras\n
          \n
          That’s just straight up wrong.
          """
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2024-01-07 12:01:02.0 +01:00
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          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
        +body: "Speaking from germany, 33 in a 30 wouldn’t even trip the speed cams here. Earliest infraction is basically doing 6mph over on a 30mph road, which would come at 50€ fine. We apparently also have 50 times less speed cameras and it absolutely does not stop people from fucking malding over them. They have to be designed bulletproof here now and even those still get regularly blown up. None of the points you raise change anything about it, because the core issue is people are terminally car brained"
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          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
          "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Saff@lemmy.ml"
        ]
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        -bodyTs: "'30':7 '30mph':25 '33':4 '50':31,37 '6mph':21 'absolut':44 'also':35 'anyth':77 'appar':34 'basic':19 'blown':68 'brain':89 'bulletproof':59 'cam':14 'camera':41 'car':88 'chang':76 'come':29 'core':82 'design':58 'earliest':16 'even':10,63 'fine':32 'fuck':50 'germani':3 'get':66 'infract':17 'issu':83 'less':39 'mald':51 'none':70 'peopl':48,85 'point':73 'rais':75 'regular':67 'road':26 'speak':1 'speed':13,40 'still':65 'stop':47 'termin':87 'time':38 'trip':11 'would':28 'wouldn':8"
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "I’m not sure if you’re being serious here"
        +lang: "en"
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2032 …}
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        -id: 289601
        -bodyTs: "'m':2 're':7 'serious':9 'sure':4"
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:25:09.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 289601
      }
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2035 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: """
          > Why not?\n
          \n
          Because that’s hardly what can be considered a realistic solution. Again, not against it, but what, are you gonna close down like 90% of roads? Only some of them, if so, which ones, and how is stuff handled on the ones that remain open?
          """
        +lang: "en"
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2031 …}
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        -bodyTs: "'90':26 'close':23 'consid':10 'gonna':22 'handl':41 'hard':6 'like':25 'one':36,44 'open':47 'realist':12 'remain':46 'road':28 'solut':13 'stuff':40"
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:42:56.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 289649
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2062 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: """
          > just roads that “require” speed cameras.\n
          \n
          So when’s that the case or not
          """
        +lang: "en"
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2081 …}
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      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2092
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "It’s a bad TL;DR but they do lay out why it’s illegal"
        +lang: "en"
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          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
          "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
        ]
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      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2351
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2347 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
        +body: "What’s your usual transportation method?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2024-01-08 17:03:55.0 +01:00
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          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
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          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2332 …}
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        -id: 291985
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        +"title": 291985
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2327}
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2143
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
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        +body: """
          > Croydon council responded to FOI request stating it costs £2.5-£3.5k to install traffic islands. The cost of a speed camera installation on the other hand is £85,000 according to Bedford Council, with a £5000 annual upkeep cost.\n
          \n
          Croydon cites average cost for roughly such an action at 2,5k - 3,5k in a denial of the FOI request which means there’s pretty much no way to know how much it actually costs depending on what they calculate the average on and if you have any idea about the cost of public works that number should strike you as very, very oddly low.\n
          \n
          Wiltshire government [here](https://www.wiltshire.gov.uk/article/1281/Costs-of-highway-works) cites about 45.000k for a traffic island narrowing a road to one lane, all in all.\n
          \n
          The source you cite for the cameras, however, puts those costs for 2 cameras, so 42,500 a pop / 2500 upkeep annual, albeit with returns via fines obviously.
          """
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          > The process and length of time it takes for either option are practically the same.\n
          \n
          Sure, but you’re arguing for like instant speed camera abolishment or destruction here, aye?\n
          \n
          > Not to mention a traffic island costs like £3k while a camera costs £85k (guess why they pick the camera despite the price).\n
          \n
          Dunno if you got to that one already but I’ve did a reply pointing out where you’re a bit off there
          """
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          You can just say yes, you don’t have to couch this shit in a good WKUK skit.\n
          \n
          Do they do harm to the poor that are on bicycles, or walking, then?
          """
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2118
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        +body: """
          > Having been to court twice for online related stuff I will absolutely couch this shit.\n
          \n
          Fair, I meant it more on “don’t do it on my accord”\n
          \n
          > I do not see how that question is doing anything but attempting some sort of gotcha or accusation that these people\n
          \n
          Your these people just seems to have some very oddly drawn lines is the heart of it. It does include poor drivers, to whom speed cameras are a problem and not that much of a solution, it does not seem to include poor people not in a car, who profit from this. My FALGSOC doesn’t have speed cameras in it - who’s would - but it’s a long way from here to there.\n
          \n
          > deserve to be fucked over instead of have real designs that don’t result in their lives being made harder. It seems like spite to me.\n
          \n
          This is running on the assumption that I think people deserve to be fucked over for speeding, and that’s the main motivation. Sure, some of them, but that’s not the kind of distinction a speed cam could make on account of how it works. I’d very much be open to them not issuing fines but other punishments - as appropiate - to not make them so classist. Loss of driving license, if you really, really fuck up in a sports car that gets impounded or such, but I’ll concede, even that is far out from today, but just to point it out,\n
          \n
          My point here is that for every one it fucks over, it helps other people not being fucked over, because it does do something against speeding. My line of reasoning for speed cams is not that it fucks people over, it’s that it helps people. You wanna focus on the first part, I’m trying to get you to see the issue is more complex than that, at least if you include people outside of cars in your consideration. They’re not a good solution, by any means, again, I assume our optimal way of solving it is quite similar. For the meantime though, the fuck else do you do? Just abandon all traffic enforcement until all the roads get fixed? So what, 20 years of being vulnerable road users being even more endangered than now?
          """
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          > A negative in the short term leads to a longterm positive.\n
          \n
          I do not want to die a martyr to the fight against traffic cams.\n
          \n
          > Also I see no other method of doing this. If you go to the council and say “I want to replace this highly profitable traffic camera making hundreds of thousands per year with a traffic island that will make no money at all” the decision that any team will make internally is obvious.\n
          \n
          That kind of poses the second question as to what, in the interim, will be cut as per budget, but that’s a sidenote. I guarantee you without change far reaching enough to societally gain a new understanding of public space and roads, when the last speed cam is dismantled you’ll find all the roads still suck ass and will not be redesigned. Once you have the change so far reaching that you can reunderstand basically every road, yeah, then you don’t need the traffic cams anymore and they can be dismantled.
          """
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2322
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          > Meanwhile, in the real world we must be concerned with actually viable change.\n
          \n
          Real Zach Brannigan hours here on account of “It might get a lot of other people killed but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make”\n
          \n
          > You are inventing a fantasy reality to suit an anti car obsession. One I share, car reduction is good. However you’re being a tit now.\n
          \n
          What part of this is fantasy. Like where do you see the political potential for a nigh nationwide road redesign.
          """
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2294
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          > This is the weird fantasy part I was referring to. It’s like, just nonsense. It comes off like an american attitude being ported to the UK with absolutely no adaptation whatsoever to British conditions. Our conditions are nothing like america. Getting rid of cameras and getting traffic calming measures installed instead is not particularly difficult, it’s about the same. This idea of complete and widespread reinterpretation of public space? It doesn’t make sense here.\n
          \n
          I’m german tho.\n
          \n
          > By American standards it would be considered idyllic.\n
          \n
          As such, I do not believe american standards as per roads are anything to go by\n
          \n
          > Parts of the road already have traffic calming measures.\n
          \n
          That’s not really gonna stop anybody from speeding down the remaining lane(s) because they’re still very wide. It’s good for pedestrians, probably, don’t get me wrong, doesn’t really fight the speeding problem at all.\n
          \n
          > This is very easily expanded upon with the addition of chicanes, which are in wide use (hundreds of thousands) across the country.\n
          \n
          These do\n
          \n
          > There’s no “reimagining” needed here. People don’t need to develop a new consciousness of public space.\n
          \n
          Those are very much spotwork as per slowing down cars. They work for that spot, yes. It is however absolutely not hard to accelerate a car again. This is a good idea to slow people down before a busy or a school crossing or something, the third picture especially is just going to lead to slow down / wait -&gt; mash gas pedal\n
          \n
          > We do not live in a country that is utterly obsessed with cars like america.\n
          \n
          True, but also nigh about the lowest bar to clear right after like Saudi Arabia.\n
          \n
          > There are zero political barriers to this, the only barrier is the profit/revenue barrier of the traffic camera obsessed crowd.\n
          \n
          And you accuse me of living in some fantasy reality?\n
          \n
          > In every town, in every village, in every city. Outisde every school. In every residential area. All over the country.\n
          \n
          Same, could find similar features here by looking out my old apartments window. Hell, do you one better than that, we have shit like this\n
          \n
          ![](https://hexbear.net/pictrs/image/da817aa1-0f08-452f-9f76-95587ddeb3e0.png)\n
          \n
          Sorry for the grainy pictures, didn’t wanna spend that much time on google. Now that’s a road you can’t speed on, on account of many chicanes and other built up enviroments, not just the single one and then it’s open road before and after.\n
          \n
          Doesn’t mean the rest of it isn’t incredibly car brained and hostile, and as such, transportation by foot or cycling sucks major ass.\n
          \n
          If your vision of not being carbrained is “do better than the USA”, yeah, you’re there, but that shouldn’t be the end goal
          """
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    ]
    -id: 27607
    -titleTs: "'camera':2 'cornwal':9 'cut':3 'second':6 'speed':1 'time':7"
    -bodyTs: "'also':20 'commut':18 'endang':21 'go':10 'insan':3 'length':5 'other':22 'peopl':8 'save':12 'second':15"
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
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      date: 2024-01-06 13:45:17.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2329 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2333 …}
  +body: """
    > You want people to actually slow down? Redesign the road.\n
    \n
    I’ve posed this question elsewhere in this thread and: what until then? Like what do you do until a good, what, 50 - 90% of road depending on criteria, is redesigned?
    """
  +lang: "en"
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    "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
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  -id: 291989
  -bodyTs: "'50':33 '90':34 'actual':5 'criteria':39 'depend':37 'elsewher':16 'good':31 'like':24 'peopl':3 'pose':13 'question':15 'redesign':8,41 'road':10,36 'slow':6 'thread':19 've':12 'want':2"
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    date: 2024-01-08 17:07:53.0 +01:00
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  +"title": 291989
}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2327
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2549 …}
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    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2694 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2695 …}
    +slug: "Speed-camera-cut-down-for-second-time-in-Cornwall"
    +title: "Speed camera cut down for second time in Cornwall"
    +url: "https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj5g1elz57qo"
    +body: "It’s insane the lengths that some people will go to save a few seconds on their commute, while also endangering others."
    +type: "link"
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    +children: [
      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: "I mean so what’s to be done then. I agree on “redesign pretty much every street or road” but like, until then, it’s just a great big free for all?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
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          date: 2024-01-07 11:43:26.0 +01:00
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
        +body: """
          > The US, for instance, doesn’t have speed cameras\n
          \n
          That’s just straight up wrong.
          """
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2024-01-07 12:01:02.0 +01:00
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          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
        +body: "Speaking from germany, 33 in a 30 wouldn’t even trip the speed cams here. Earliest infraction is basically doing 6mph over on a 30mph road, which would come at 50€ fine. We apparently also have 50 times less speed cameras and it absolutely does not stop people from fucking malding over them. They have to be designed bulletproof here now and even those still get regularly blown up. None of the points you raise change anything about it, because the core issue is people are terminally car brained"
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          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
          "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Saff@lemmy.ml"
        ]
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        -bodyTs: "'30':7 '30mph':25 '33':4 '50':31,37 '6mph':21 'absolut':44 'also':35 'anyth':77 'appar':34 'basic':19 'blown':68 'brain':89 'bulletproof':59 'cam':14 'camera':41 'car':88 'chang':76 'come':29 'core':82 'design':58 'earliest':16 'even':10,63 'fine':32 'fuck':50 'germani':3 'get':66 'infract':17 'issu':83 'less':39 'mald':51 'none':70 'peopl':48,85 'point':73 'rais':75 'regular':67 'road':26 'speak':1 'speed':13,40 'still':65 'stop':47 'termin':87 'time':38 'trip':11 'would':28 'wouldn':8"
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "I’m not sure if you’re being serious here"
        +lang: "en"
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2032 …}
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        -id: 289601
        -bodyTs: "'m':2 're':7 'serious':9 'sure':4"
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:25:09.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 289601
      }
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2035 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: """
          > Why not?\n
          \n
          Because that’s hardly what can be considered a realistic solution. Again, not against it, but what, are you gonna close down like 90% of roads? Only some of them, if so, which ones, and how is stuff handled on the ones that remain open?
          """
        +lang: "en"
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2031 …}
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        -bodyTs: "'90':26 'close':23 'consid':10 'gonna':22 'handl':41 'hard':6 'like':25 'one':36,44 'open':47 'realist':12 'remain':46 'road':28 'solut':13 'stuff':40"
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:42:56.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 289649
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2062 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: """
          > just roads that “require” speed cameras.\n
          \n
          So when’s that the case or not
          """
        +lang: "en"
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2081 …}
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      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2092
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "It’s a bad TL;DR but they do lay out why it’s illegal"
        +lang: "en"
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          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
          "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
        ]
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      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2351
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2347 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
        +body: "What’s your usual transportation method?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2024-01-08 17:03:55.0 +01:00
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          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
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          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2332 …}
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        -id: 291985
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        +"title": 291985
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2327}
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2143
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
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        +body: """
          > Croydon council responded to FOI request stating it costs £2.5-£3.5k to install traffic islands. The cost of a speed camera installation on the other hand is £85,000 according to Bedford Council, with a £5000 annual upkeep cost.\n
          \n
          Croydon cites average cost for roughly such an action at 2,5k - 3,5k in a denial of the FOI request which means there’s pretty much no way to know how much it actually costs depending on what they calculate the average on and if you have any idea about the cost of public works that number should strike you as very, very oddly low.\n
          \n
          Wiltshire government [here](https://www.wiltshire.gov.uk/article/1281/Costs-of-highway-works) cites about 45.000k for a traffic island narrowing a road to one lane, all in all.\n
          \n
          The source you cite for the cameras, however, puts those costs for 2 cameras, so 42,500 a pop / 2500 upkeep annual, albeit with returns via fines obviously.
          """
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          > The process and length of time it takes for either option are practically the same.\n
          \n
          Sure, but you’re arguing for like instant speed camera abolishment or destruction here, aye?\n
          \n
          > Not to mention a traffic island costs like £3k while a camera costs £85k (guess why they pick the camera despite the price).\n
          \n
          Dunno if you got to that one already but I’ve did a reply pointing out where you’re a bit off there
          """
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          You can just say yes, you don’t have to couch this shit in a good WKUK skit.\n
          \n
          Do they do harm to the poor that are on bicycles, or walking, then?
          """
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2118
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        +body: """
          > Having been to court twice for online related stuff I will absolutely couch this shit.\n
          \n
          Fair, I meant it more on “don’t do it on my accord”\n
          \n
          > I do not see how that question is doing anything but attempting some sort of gotcha or accusation that these people\n
          \n
          Your these people just seems to have some very oddly drawn lines is the heart of it. It does include poor drivers, to whom speed cameras are a problem and not that much of a solution, it does not seem to include poor people not in a car, who profit from this. My FALGSOC doesn’t have speed cameras in it - who’s would - but it’s a long way from here to there.\n
          \n
          > deserve to be fucked over instead of have real designs that don’t result in their lives being made harder. It seems like spite to me.\n
          \n
          This is running on the assumption that I think people deserve to be fucked over for speeding, and that’s the main motivation. Sure, some of them, but that’s not the kind of distinction a speed cam could make on account of how it works. I’d very much be open to them not issuing fines but other punishments - as appropiate - to not make them so classist. Loss of driving license, if you really, really fuck up in a sports car that gets impounded or such, but I’ll concede, even that is far out from today, but just to point it out,\n
          \n
          My point here is that for every one it fucks over, it helps other people not being fucked over, because it does do something against speeding. My line of reasoning for speed cams is not that it fucks people over, it’s that it helps people. You wanna focus on the first part, I’m trying to get you to see the issue is more complex than that, at least if you include people outside of cars in your consideration. They’re not a good solution, by any means, again, I assume our optimal way of solving it is quite similar. For the meantime though, the fuck else do you do? Just abandon all traffic enforcement until all the roads get fixed? So what, 20 years of being vulnerable road users being even more endangered than now?
          """
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          > A negative in the short term leads to a longterm positive.\n
          \n
          I do not want to die a martyr to the fight against traffic cams.\n
          \n
          > Also I see no other method of doing this. If you go to the council and say “I want to replace this highly profitable traffic camera making hundreds of thousands per year with a traffic island that will make no money at all” the decision that any team will make internally is obvious.\n
          \n
          That kind of poses the second question as to what, in the interim, will be cut as per budget, but that’s a sidenote. I guarantee you without change far reaching enough to societally gain a new understanding of public space and roads, when the last speed cam is dismantled you’ll find all the roads still suck ass and will not be redesigned. Once you have the change so far reaching that you can reunderstand basically every road, yeah, then you don’t need the traffic cams anymore and they can be dismantled.
          """
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2322
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          > Meanwhile, in the real world we must be concerned with actually viable change.\n
          \n
          Real Zach Brannigan hours here on account of “It might get a lot of other people killed but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make”\n
          \n
          > You are inventing a fantasy reality to suit an anti car obsession. One I share, car reduction is good. However you’re being a tit now.\n
          \n
          What part of this is fantasy. Like where do you see the political potential for a nigh nationwide road redesign.
          """
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2294
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          > This is the weird fantasy part I was referring to. It’s like, just nonsense. It comes off like an american attitude being ported to the UK with absolutely no adaptation whatsoever to British conditions. Our conditions are nothing like america. Getting rid of cameras and getting traffic calming measures installed instead is not particularly difficult, it’s about the same. This idea of complete and widespread reinterpretation of public space? It doesn’t make sense here.\n
          \n
          I’m german tho.\n
          \n
          > By American standards it would be considered idyllic.\n
          \n
          As such, I do not believe american standards as per roads are anything to go by\n
          \n
          > Parts of the road already have traffic calming measures.\n
          \n
          That’s not really gonna stop anybody from speeding down the remaining lane(s) because they’re still very wide. It’s good for pedestrians, probably, don’t get me wrong, doesn’t really fight the speeding problem at all.\n
          \n
          > This is very easily expanded upon with the addition of chicanes, which are in wide use (hundreds of thousands) across the country.\n
          \n
          These do\n
          \n
          > There’s no “reimagining” needed here. People don’t need to develop a new consciousness of public space.\n
          \n
          Those are very much spotwork as per slowing down cars. They work for that spot, yes. It is however absolutely not hard to accelerate a car again. This is a good idea to slow people down before a busy or a school crossing or something, the third picture especially is just going to lead to slow down / wait -&gt; mash gas pedal\n
          \n
          > We do not live in a country that is utterly obsessed with cars like america.\n
          \n
          True, but also nigh about the lowest bar to clear right after like Saudi Arabia.\n
          \n
          > There are zero political barriers to this, the only barrier is the profit/revenue barrier of the traffic camera obsessed crowd.\n
          \n
          And you accuse me of living in some fantasy reality?\n
          \n
          > In every town, in every village, in every city. Outisde every school. In every residential area. All over the country.\n
          \n
          Same, could find similar features here by looking out my old apartments window. Hell, do you one better than that, we have shit like this\n
          \n
          ![](https://hexbear.net/pictrs/image/da817aa1-0f08-452f-9f76-95587ddeb3e0.png)\n
          \n
          Sorry for the grainy pictures, didn’t wanna spend that much time on google. Now that’s a road you can’t speed on, on account of many chicanes and other built up enviroments, not just the single one and then it’s open road before and after.\n
          \n
          Doesn’t mean the rest of it isn’t incredibly car brained and hostile, and as such, transportation by foot or cycling sucks major ass.\n
          \n
          If your vision of not being carbrained is “do better than the USA”, yeah, you’re there, but that shouldn’t be the end goal
          """
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    ]
    -id: 27607
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    -bodyTs: "'also':20 'commut':18 'endang':21 'go':10 'insan':3 'length':5 'other':22 'peopl':8 'save':12 'second':15"
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      date: 2024-01-06 13:45:17.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
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  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2333 …}
  +body: """
    > You want people to actually slow down? Redesign the road.\n
    \n
    I’ve posed this question elsewhere in this thread and: what until then? Like what do you do until a good, what, 50 - 90% of road depending on criteria, is redesigned?
    """
  +lang: "en"
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  -id: 291989
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2143
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2549 …}
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    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2694 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2695 …}
    +slug: "Speed-camera-cut-down-for-second-time-in-Cornwall"
    +title: "Speed camera cut down for second time in Cornwall"
    +url: "https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj5g1elz57qo"
    +body: "It’s insane the lengths that some people will go to save a few seconds on their commute, while also endangering others."
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    +children: [
      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: "I mean so what’s to be done then. I agree on “redesign pretty much every street or road” but like, until then, it’s just a great big free for all?"
        +lang: "en"
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          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
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          date: 2024-01-07 11:43:26.0 +01:00
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
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        +body: """
          > The US, for instance, doesn’t have speed cameras\n
          \n
          That’s just straight up wrong.
          """
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
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        +body: "Speaking from germany, 33 in a 30 wouldn’t even trip the speed cams here. Earliest infraction is basically doing 6mph over on a 30mph road, which would come at 50€ fine. We apparently also have 50 times less speed cameras and it absolutely does not stop people from fucking malding over them. They have to be designed bulletproof here now and even those still get regularly blown up. None of the points you raise change anything about it, because the core issue is people are terminally car brained"
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          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
          "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Saff@lemmy.ml"
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        -bodyTs: "'30':7 '30mph':25 '33':4 '50':31,37 '6mph':21 'absolut':44 'also':35 'anyth':77 'appar':34 'basic':19 'blown':68 'brain':89 'bulletproof':59 'cam':14 'camera':41 'car':88 'chang':76 'come':29 'core':82 'design':58 'earliest':16 'even':10,63 'fine':32 'fuck':50 'germani':3 'get':66 'infract':17 'issu':83 'less':39 'mald':51 'none':70 'peopl':48,85 'point':73 'rais':75 'regular':67 'road':26 'speak':1 'speed':13,40 'still':65 'stop':47 'termin':87 'time':38 'trip':11 'would':28 'wouldn':8"
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
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        +body: "I’m not sure if you’re being serious here"
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          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:25:09.0 +01:00
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      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
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        +body: """
          > Why not?\n
          \n
          Because that’s hardly what can be considered a realistic solution. Again, not against it, but what, are you gonna close down like 90% of roads? Only some of them, if so, which ones, and how is stuff handled on the ones that remain open?
          """
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
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        -bodyTs: "'90':26 'close':23 'consid':10 'gonna':22 'handl':41 'hard':6 'like':25 'one':36,44 'open':47 'realist':12 'remain':46 'road':28 'solut':13 'stuff':40"
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      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2062 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: """
          > just roads that “require” speed cameras.\n
          \n
          So when’s that the case or not
          """
        +lang: "en"
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2092
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        +body: "It’s a bad TL;DR but they do lay out why it’s illegal"
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      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2351
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        +body: "What’s your usual transportation method?"
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          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
        ]
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      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2327
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        +body: """
          > You want people to actually slow down? Redesign the road.\n
          \n
          I’ve posed this question elsewhere in this thread and: what until then? Like what do you do until a good, what, 50 - 90% of road depending on criteria, is redesigned?
          """
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          date: 2024-01-08 17:07:53.0 +01:00
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      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2143}
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2051
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        +body: """
          > The process and length of time it takes for either option are practically the same.\n
          \n
          Sure, but you’re arguing for like instant speed camera abolishment or destruction here, aye?\n
          \n
          > Not to mention a traffic island costs like £3k while a camera costs £85k (guess why they pick the camera despite the price).\n
          \n
          Dunno if you got to that one already but I’ve did a reply pointing out where you’re a bit off there
          """
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        +body: """
          You can just say yes, you don’t have to couch this shit in a good WKUK skit.\n
          \n
          Do they do harm to the poor that are on bicycles, or walking, then?
          """
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          date: 2024-01-08 18:56:34.0 +01:00
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2118
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        +body: """
          > Having been to court twice for online related stuff I will absolutely couch this shit.\n
          \n
          Fair, I meant it more on “don’t do it on my accord”\n
          \n
          > I do not see how that question is doing anything but attempting some sort of gotcha or accusation that these people\n
          \n
          Your these people just seems to have some very oddly drawn lines is the heart of it. It does include poor drivers, to whom speed cameras are a problem and not that much of a solution, it does not seem to include poor people not in a car, who profit from this. My FALGSOC doesn’t have speed cameras in it - who’s would - but it’s a long way from here to there.\n
          \n
          > deserve to be fucked over instead of have real designs that don’t result in their lives being made harder. It seems like spite to me.\n
          \n
          This is running on the assumption that I think people deserve to be fucked over for speeding, and that’s the main motivation. Sure, some of them, but that’s not the kind of distinction a speed cam could make on account of how it works. I’d very much be open to them not issuing fines but other punishments - as appropiate - to not make them so classist. Loss of driving license, if you really, really fuck up in a sports car that gets impounded or such, but I’ll concede, even that is far out from today, but just to point it out,\n
          \n
          My point here is that for every one it fucks over, it helps other people not being fucked over, because it does do something against speeding. My line of reasoning for speed cams is not that it fucks people over, it’s that it helps people. You wanna focus on the first part, I’m trying to get you to see the issue is more complex than that, at least if you include people outside of cars in your consideration. They’re not a good solution, by any means, again, I assume our optimal way of solving it is quite similar. For the meantime though, the fuck else do you do? Just abandon all traffic enforcement until all the roads get fixed? So what, 20 years of being vulnerable road users being even more endangered than now?
          """
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          > A negative in the short term leads to a longterm positive.\n
          \n
          I do not want to die a martyr to the fight against traffic cams.\n
          \n
          > Also I see no other method of doing this. If you go to the council and say “I want to replace this highly profitable traffic camera making hundreds of thousands per year with a traffic island that will make no money at all” the decision that any team will make internally is obvious.\n
          \n
          That kind of poses the second question as to what, in the interim, will be cut as per budget, but that’s a sidenote. I guarantee you without change far reaching enough to societally gain a new understanding of public space and roads, when the last speed cam is dismantled you’ll find all the roads still suck ass and will not be redesigned. Once you have the change so far reaching that you can reunderstand basically every road, yeah, then you don’t need the traffic cams anymore and they can be dismantled.
          """
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2322
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        +body: """
          > Meanwhile, in the real world we must be concerned with actually viable change.\n
          \n
          Real Zach Brannigan hours here on account of “It might get a lot of other people killed but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make”\n
          \n
          > You are inventing a fantasy reality to suit an anti car obsession. One I share, car reduction is good. However you’re being a tit now.\n
          \n
          What part of this is fantasy. Like where do you see the political potential for a nigh nationwide road redesign.
          """
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2294
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        +body: """
          > This is the weird fantasy part I was referring to. It’s like, just nonsense. It comes off like an american attitude being ported to the UK with absolutely no adaptation whatsoever to British conditions. Our conditions are nothing like america. Getting rid of cameras and getting traffic calming measures installed instead is not particularly difficult, it’s about the same. This idea of complete and widespread reinterpretation of public space? It doesn’t make sense here.\n
          \n
          I’m german tho.\n
          \n
          > By American standards it would be considered idyllic.\n
          \n
          As such, I do not believe american standards as per roads are anything to go by\n
          \n
          > Parts of the road already have traffic calming measures.\n
          \n
          That’s not really gonna stop anybody from speeding down the remaining lane(s) because they’re still very wide. It’s good for pedestrians, probably, don’t get me wrong, doesn’t really fight the speeding problem at all.\n
          \n
          > This is very easily expanded upon with the addition of chicanes, which are in wide use (hundreds of thousands) across the country.\n
          \n
          These do\n
          \n
          > There’s no “reimagining” needed here. People don’t need to develop a new consciousness of public space.\n
          \n
          Those are very much spotwork as per slowing down cars. They work for that spot, yes. It is however absolutely not hard to accelerate a car again. This is a good idea to slow people down before a busy or a school crossing or something, the third picture especially is just going to lead to slow down / wait -&gt; mash gas pedal\n
          \n
          > We do not live in a country that is utterly obsessed with cars like america.\n
          \n
          True, but also nigh about the lowest bar to clear right after like Saudi Arabia.\n
          \n
          > There are zero political barriers to this, the only barrier is the profit/revenue barrier of the traffic camera obsessed crowd.\n
          \n
          And you accuse me of living in some fantasy reality?\n
          \n
          > In every town, in every village, in every city. Outisde every school. In every residential area. All over the country.\n
          \n
          Same, could find similar features here by looking out my old apartments window. Hell, do you one better than that, we have shit like this\n
          \n
          ![](https://hexbear.net/pictrs/image/da817aa1-0f08-452f-9f76-95587ddeb3e0.png)\n
          \n
          Sorry for the grainy pictures, didn’t wanna spend that much time on google. Now that’s a road you can’t speed on, on account of many chicanes and other built up enviroments, not just the single one and then it’s open road before and after.\n
          \n
          Doesn’t mean the rest of it isn’t incredibly car brained and hostile, and as such, transportation by foot or cycling sucks major ass.\n
          \n
          If your vision of not being carbrained is “do better than the USA”, yeah, you’re there, but that shouldn’t be the end goal
          """
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      date: 2024-01-06 13:45:17.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
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  +body: """
    > Croydon council responded to FOI request stating it costs £2.5-£3.5k to install traffic islands. The cost of a speed camera installation on the other hand is £85,000 according to Bedford Council, with a £5000 annual upkeep cost.\n
    \n
    Croydon cites average cost for roughly such an action at 2,5k - 3,5k in a denial of the FOI request which means there’s pretty much no way to know how much it actually costs depending on what they calculate the average on and if you have any idea about the cost of public works that number should strike you as very, very oddly low.\n
    \n
    Wiltshire government [here](https://www.wiltshire.gov.uk/article/1281/Costs-of-highway-works) cites about 45.000k for a traffic island narrowing a road to one lane, all in all.\n
    \n
    The source you cite for the cameras, however, puts those costs for 2 cameras, so 42,500 a pop / 2500 upkeep annual, albeit with returns via fines obviously.
    """
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    date: 2024-01-08 17:33:32.0 +01:00
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  +"title": 291995
}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2143
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2549 …}
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    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2694 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2695 …}
    +slug: "Speed-camera-cut-down-for-second-time-in-Cornwall"
    +title: "Speed camera cut down for second time in Cornwall"
    +url: "https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj5g1elz57qo"
    +body: "It’s insane the lengths that some people will go to save a few seconds on their commute, while also endangering others."
    +type: "link"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
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      date: 2024-01-11 17:32:35.0 +01:00
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    +children: [
      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: "I mean so what’s to be done then. I agree on “redesign pretty much every street or road” but like, until then, it’s just a great big free for all?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
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        -bodyTs: "'agre':11 'big':29 'done':8 'everi':16 'free':30 'great':28 'like':21 'mean':2 'much':15 'pretti':14 'redesign':13 'road':19 'street':17"
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          date: 2024-01-07 11:43:26.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 288370
      }
      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
        +body: """
          > The US, for instance, doesn’t have speed cameras\n
          \n
          That’s just straight up wrong.
          """
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2024-01-07 12:01:02.0 +01:00
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
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          date: 2024-01-07 12:01:02.0 +01:00
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
        +body: "Speaking from germany, 33 in a 30 wouldn’t even trip the speed cams here. Earliest infraction is basically doing 6mph over on a 30mph road, which would come at 50€ fine. We apparently also have 50 times less speed cameras and it absolutely does not stop people from fucking malding over them. They have to be designed bulletproof here now and even those still get regularly blown up. None of the points you raise change anything about it, because the core issue is people are terminally car brained"
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          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
          "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Saff@lemmy.ml"
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2030 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: "I’m not sure if you’re being serious here"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 3
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:25:09.0 +01:00
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
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        -id: 289601
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:25:09.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 289601
      }
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2035 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: """
          > Why not?\n
          \n
          Because that’s hardly what can be considered a realistic solution. Again, not against it, but what, are you gonna close down like 90% of roads? Only some of them, if so, which ones, and how is stuff handled on the ones that remain open?
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:42:56.0 +01:00
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2031 …}
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        -bodyTs: "'90':26 'close':23 'consid':10 'gonna':22 'handl':41 'hard':6 'like':25 'one':36,44 'open':47 'realist':12 'remain':46 'road':28 'solut':13 'stuff':40"
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:42:56.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 289649
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2062 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: """
          > just roads that “require” speed cameras.\n
          \n
          So when’s that the case or not
          """
        +lang: "en"
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2081 …}
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:58:47.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 289695
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2092
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "It’s a bad TL;DR but they do lay out why it’s illegal"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
          "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2241 …}
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      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2351
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2347 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
        +body: "What’s your usual transportation method?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
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          date: 2024-01-08 17:03:55.0 +01:00
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
          "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2332 …}
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        -id: 291985
        -bodyTs: "'method':6 'transport':5 'usual':4"
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          date: 2024-01-08 17:03:55.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 291985
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2327
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2329 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2333 …}
        +body: """
          > You want people to actually slow down? Redesign the road.\n
          \n
          I’ve posed this question elsewhere in this thread and: what until then? Like what do you do until a good, what, 50 - 90% of road depending on criteria, is redesigned?
          """
        +lang: "en"
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
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        -id: 291989
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          date: 2024-01-08 17:07:53.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 291989
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2143}
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2051
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2056 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2333 …}
        +body: """
          > The process and length of time it takes for either option are practically the same.\n
          \n
          Sure, but you’re arguing for like instant speed camera abolishment or destruction here, aye?\n
          \n
          > Not to mention a traffic island costs like £3k while a camera costs £85k (guess why they pick the camera despite the price).\n
          \n
          Dunno if you got to that one already but I’ve did a reply pointing out where you’re a bit off there
          """
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
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        +body: """
          You can just say yes, you don’t have to couch this shit in a good WKUK skit.\n
          \n
          Do they do harm to the poor that are on bicycles, or walking, then?
          """
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          date: 2024-01-08 18:56:34.0 +01:00
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        +body: """
          > Having been to court twice for online related stuff I will absolutely couch this shit.\n
          \n
          Fair, I meant it more on “don’t do it on my accord”\n
          \n
          > I do not see how that question is doing anything but attempting some sort of gotcha or accusation that these people\n
          \n
          Your these people just seems to have some very oddly drawn lines is the heart of it. It does include poor drivers, to whom speed cameras are a problem and not that much of a solution, it does not seem to include poor people not in a car, who profit from this. My FALGSOC doesn’t have speed cameras in it - who’s would - but it’s a long way from here to there.\n
          \n
          > deserve to be fucked over instead of have real designs that don’t result in their lives being made harder. It seems like spite to me.\n
          \n
          This is running on the assumption that I think people deserve to be fucked over for speeding, and that’s the main motivation. Sure, some of them, but that’s not the kind of distinction a speed cam could make on account of how it works. I’d very much be open to them not issuing fines but other punishments - as appropiate - to not make them so classist. Loss of driving license, if you really, really fuck up in a sports car that gets impounded or such, but I’ll concede, even that is far out from today, but just to point it out,\n
          \n
          My point here is that for every one it fucks over, it helps other people not being fucked over, because it does do something against speeding. My line of reasoning for speed cams is not that it fucks people over, it’s that it helps people. You wanna focus on the first part, I’m trying to get you to see the issue is more complex than that, at least if you include people outside of cars in your consideration. They’re not a good solution, by any means, again, I assume our optimal way of solving it is quite similar. For the meantime though, the fuck else do you do? Just abandon all traffic enforcement until all the roads get fixed? So what, 20 years of being vulnerable road users being even more endangered than now?
          """
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          > A negative in the short term leads to a longterm positive.\n
          \n
          I do not want to die a martyr to the fight against traffic cams.\n
          \n
          > Also I see no other method of doing this. If you go to the council and say “I want to replace this highly profitable traffic camera making hundreds of thousands per year with a traffic island that will make no money at all” the decision that any team will make internally is obvious.\n
          \n
          That kind of poses the second question as to what, in the interim, will be cut as per budget, but that’s a sidenote. I guarantee you without change far reaching enough to societally gain a new understanding of public space and roads, when the last speed cam is dismantled you’ll find all the roads still suck ass and will not be redesigned. Once you have the change so far reaching that you can reunderstand basically every road, yeah, then you don’t need the traffic cams anymore and they can be dismantled.
          """
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          > Meanwhile, in the real world we must be concerned with actually viable change.\n
          \n
          Real Zach Brannigan hours here on account of “It might get a lot of other people killed but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make”\n
          \n
          > You are inventing a fantasy reality to suit an anti car obsession. One I share, car reduction is good. However you’re being a tit now.\n
          \n
          What part of this is fantasy. Like where do you see the political potential for a nigh nationwide road redesign.
          """
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2294
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        +body: """
          > This is the weird fantasy part I was referring to. It’s like, just nonsense. It comes off like an american attitude being ported to the UK with absolutely no adaptation whatsoever to British conditions. Our conditions are nothing like america. Getting rid of cameras and getting traffic calming measures installed instead is not particularly difficult, it’s about the same. This idea of complete and widespread reinterpretation of public space? It doesn’t make sense here.\n
          \n
          I’m german tho.\n
          \n
          > By American standards it would be considered idyllic.\n
          \n
          As such, I do not believe american standards as per roads are anything to go by\n
          \n
          > Parts of the road already have traffic calming measures.\n
          \n
          That’s not really gonna stop anybody from speeding down the remaining lane(s) because they’re still very wide. It’s good for pedestrians, probably, don’t get me wrong, doesn’t really fight the speeding problem at all.\n
          \n
          > This is very easily expanded upon with the addition of chicanes, which are in wide use (hundreds of thousands) across the country.\n
          \n
          These do\n
          \n
          > There’s no “reimagining” needed here. People don’t need to develop a new consciousness of public space.\n
          \n
          Those are very much spotwork as per slowing down cars. They work for that spot, yes. It is however absolutely not hard to accelerate a car again. This is a good idea to slow people down before a busy or a school crossing or something, the third picture especially is just going to lead to slow down / wait -&gt; mash gas pedal\n
          \n
          > We do not live in a country that is utterly obsessed with cars like america.\n
          \n
          True, but also nigh about the lowest bar to clear right after like Saudi Arabia.\n
          \n
          > There are zero political barriers to this, the only barrier is the profit/revenue barrier of the traffic camera obsessed crowd.\n
          \n
          And you accuse me of living in some fantasy reality?\n
          \n
          > In every town, in every village, in every city. Outisde every school. In every residential area. All over the country.\n
          \n
          Same, could find similar features here by looking out my old apartments window. Hell, do you one better than that, we have shit like this\n
          \n
          ![](https://hexbear.net/pictrs/image/da817aa1-0f08-452f-9f76-95587ddeb3e0.png)\n
          \n
          Sorry for the grainy pictures, didn’t wanna spend that much time on google. Now that’s a road you can’t speed on, on account of many chicanes and other built up enviroments, not just the single one and then it’s open road before and after.\n
          \n
          Doesn’t mean the rest of it isn’t incredibly car brained and hostile, and as such, transportation by foot or cycling sucks major ass.\n
          \n
          If your vision of not being carbrained is “do better than the USA”, yeah, you’re there, but that shouldn’t be the end goal
          """
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    > Croydon council responded to FOI request stating it costs £2.5-£3.5k to install traffic islands. The cost of a speed camera installation on the other hand is £85,000 according to Bedford Council, with a £5000 annual upkeep cost.\n
    \n
    Croydon cites average cost for roughly such an action at 2,5k - 3,5k in a denial of the FOI request which means there’s pretty much no way to know how much it actually costs depending on what they calculate the average on and if you have any idea about the cost of public works that number should strike you as very, very oddly low.\n
    \n
    Wiltshire government [here](https://www.wiltshire.gov.uk/article/1281/Costs-of-highway-works) cites about 45.000k for a traffic island narrowing a road to one lane, all in all.\n
    \n
    The source you cite for the cameras, however, puts those costs for 2 cameras, so 42,500 a pop / 2500 upkeep annual, albeit with returns via fines obviously.
    """
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  -bodyTs: "'/article/1281/costs-of-highway-works)':112 '000':30 '2':51,142 '2.5':10 '2500':149 '3':53 '3.5':11 '42':145 '45.000':115 '500':146 '5000':37 '5k':52,54 '85':29 'accord':31 'action':49 'actual':75 'albeit':152 'annual':38,151 'averag':43,83 'bedford':33 'calcul':81 'camera':22,136,143 'cite':42,113,133 'cost':9,18,40,44,76,93,140 'council':2,34 'croydon':1,41 'denial':57 'depend':77 'fine':156 'foi':5,60 'govern':108 'hand':27 'howev':137 'idea':90 'instal':14,23 'island':16,120 'k':12,116 'know':71 'lane':126 'low':106 'mean':63 'much':67,73 'narrow':121 'number':98 'obvious':157 'odd':105 'one':125 'pop':148 'pretti':66 'public':95 'put':138 'request':6,61 'respond':3 'return':154 'road':123 'rough':46 'sourc':131 'speed':21 'state':7 'strike':100 'traffic':15,119 'upkeep':39,150 'via':155 'way':69 'wiltshir':107 'work':96 'www.wiltshire.gov.uk':111 'www.wiltshire.gov.uk/article/1281/costs-of-highway-works)':110"
  +ranking: 0
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  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1704731612 {#2159
    date: 2024-01-08 17:33:32.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 291995
}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2143
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2549 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2694 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2695 …}
    +slug: "Speed-camera-cut-down-for-second-time-in-Cornwall"
    +title: "Speed camera cut down for second time in Cornwall"
    +url: "https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj5g1elz57qo"
    +body: "It’s insane the lengths that some people will go to save a few seconds on their commute, while also endangering others."
    +type: "link"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: false
    +commentCount: 200
    +favouriteCount: 259
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    +sticky: false
    +lastActive: DateTime @1704990755 {#2689
      date: 2024-01-11 17:32:35.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2704 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2706 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2708 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2710 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2712 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2714 …}
    +children: [
      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: "I mean so what’s to be done then. I agree on “redesign pretty much every street or road” but like, until then, it’s just a great big free for all?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 8
        +score: 0
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          date: 2024-01-07 11:43:26.0 +01:00
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2360 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2361 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2372 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2386 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2385 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2378 …}
        -id: 288370
        -bodyTs: "'agre':11 'big':29 'done':8 'everi':16 'free':30 'great':28 'like':21 'mean':2 'much':15 'pretti':14 'redesign':13 'road':19 'street':17"
        +ranking: 0
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1704624206 {#2371
          date: 2024-01-07 11:43:26.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 288370
      }
      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
        +body: """
          > The US, for instance, doesn’t have speed cameras\n
          \n
          That’s just straight up wrong.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 10
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1704625262 {#2381
          date: 2024-01-07 12:01:02.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1708 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1410 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1907 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1407 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2391 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2369 …}
        -id: 288397
        -bodyTs: "'camera':9 'doesn':5 'instanc':4 'speed':8 'straight':13 'us':2 'wrong':15"
        +ranking: 0
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1704625262 {#2383
          date: 2024-01-07 12:01:02.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 288397
      }
      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2393 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
        +body: "Speaking from germany, 33 in a 30 wouldn’t even trip the speed cams here. Earliest infraction is basically doing 6mph over on a 30mph road, which would come at 50€ fine. We apparently also have 50 times less speed cameras and it absolutely does not stop people from fucking malding over them. They have to be designed bulletproof here now and even those still get regularly blown up. None of the points you raise change anything about it, because the core issue is people are terminally car brained"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1704636931 {#2392
          date: 2024-01-07 15:15:31.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
          "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Saff@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1384 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1383 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1405 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1382 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1404 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1361 …}
        -id: 288725
        -bodyTs: "'30':7 '30mph':25 '33':4 '50':31,37 '6mph':21 'absolut':44 'also':35 'anyth':77 'appar':34 'basic':19 'blown':68 'brain':89 'bulletproof':59 'cam':14 'camera':41 'car':88 'chang':76 'come':29 'core':82 'design':58 'earliest':16 'even':10,63 'fine':32 'fuck':50 'germani':3 'get':66 'infract':17 'issu':83 'less':39 'mald':51 'none':70 'peopl':48,85 'point':73 'rais':75 'regular':67 'road':26 'speak':1 'speed':13,40 'still':65 'stop':47 'termin':87 'time':38 'trip':11 'would':28 'wouldn':8"
        +ranking: 0
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1704636931 {#2394
          date: 2024-01-07 15:15:31.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 288725
      }
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2030 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: "I’m not sure if you’re being serious here"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 3
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1704651909 {#1403
          date: 2024-01-07 19:25:09.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2032 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2024 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2018 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2011 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2021 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2029 …}
        -id: 289601
        -bodyTs: "'m':2 're':7 'serious':9 'sure':4"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
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        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1704651909 {#2019
          date: 2024-01-07 19:25:09.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 289601
      }
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2035 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: """
          > Why not?\n
          \n
          Because that’s hardly what can be considered a realistic solution. Again, not against it, but what, are you gonna close down like 90% of roads? Only some of them, if so, which ones, and how is stuff handled on the ones that remain open?
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 5
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1704652976 {#2020
          date: 2024-01-07 19:42:56.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2031 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2037 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2075 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2079 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2078 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2097 …}
        -id: 289649
        -bodyTs: "'90':26 'close':23 'consid':10 'gonna':22 'handl':41 'hard':6 'like':25 'one':36,44 'open':47 'realist':12 'remain':46 'road':28 'solut':13 'stuff':40"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://hexbear.net/comment/4455805"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1704652976 {#2013
          date: 2024-01-07 19:42:56.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 289649
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2062 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: """
          > just roads that “require” speed cameras.\n
          \n
          So when’s that the case or not
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 4
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1704653927 {#2082
          date: 2024-01-07 19:58:47.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2081 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2098 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2080 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2089 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2095 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2091 …}
        -id: 289695
        -bodyTs: "'camera':6 'case':12 'requir':4 'road':2 'speed':5"
        +ranking: 0
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        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1704653927 {#2085
          date: 2024-01-07 19:58:47.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 289695
      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2092
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2094 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
        +body: "It’s a bad TL;DR but they do lay out why it’s illegal"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1704657389 {#2090
          date: 2024-01-07 20:56:29.0 +01:00
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        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
          "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2241 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2130 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2129 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2132 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2040 …}
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        -id: 289800
        -bodyTs: "'bad':4 'dr':6 'illeg':15 'lay':10 'tl':5"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1704657389 {#2093
          date: 2024-01-07 20:56:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 289800
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2351
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2347 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
        +body: "What’s your usual transportation method?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1704729835 {#2348
          date: 2024-01-08 17:03:55.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
          "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2332 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2349 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2141 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2164 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2314 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2328 …}
        -id: 291985
        -bodyTs: "'method':6 'transport':5 'usual':4"
        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1704729835 {#2346
          date: 2024-01-08 17:03:55.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 291985
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2327
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2329 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2333 …}
        +body: """
          > You want people to actually slow down? Redesign the road.\n
          \n
          I’ve posed this question elsewhere in this thread and: what until then? Like what do you do until a good, what, 50 - 90% of road depending on criteria, is redesigned?
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
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          date: 2024-01-08 17:07:53.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
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        +mentions: [
          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2323 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2300 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2340 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2342 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2343 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2335 …}
        -id: 291989
        -bodyTs: "'50':33 '90':34 'actual':5 'criteria':39 'depend':37 'elsewher':16 'good':31 'like':24 'peopl':3 'pose':13 'question':15 'redesign':8,41 'road':10,36 'slow':6 'thread':19 've':12 'want':2"
        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
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        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1704730073 {#2325
          date: 2024-01-08 17:07:53.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 291989
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2143}
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2051
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2056 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2333 …}
        +body: """
          > The process and length of time it takes for either option are practically the same.\n
          \n
          Sure, but you’re arguing for like instant speed camera abolishment or destruction here, aye?\n
          \n
          > Not to mention a traffic island costs like £3k while a camera costs £85k (guess why they pick the camera despite the price).\n
          \n
          Dunno if you got to that one already but I’ve did a reply pointing out where you’re a bit off there
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
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          date: 2024-01-08 18:26:47.0 +01:00
        }
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        +mentions: [
          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2059 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2047 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2057 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2055 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2054 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2053 …}
        -id: 292001
        -bodyTs: "'3k':39 '85k':44 'abolish':26 'alreadi':61 'argu':20 'aye':30 'bit':74 'camera':25,42,50 'cost':37,43 'despit':51 'destruct':28 'dunno':54 'either':10 'got':57 'guess':45 'instant':23 'island':36 'length':4 'like':22,38 'mention':33 'one':60 'option':11 'pick':48 'point':68 'practic':13 'price':53 'process':2 're':19,72 'repli':67 'speed':24 'sure':16 'take':8 'time':6 'traffic':35 've':64"
        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://hexbear.net/comment/4458879"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1704734807 {#2048
          date: 2024-01-08 18:26:47.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 292001
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2104
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2100 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2333 …}
        +body: """
          You can just say yes, you don’t have to couch this shit in a good WKUK skit.\n
          \n
          Do they do harm to the poor that are on bicycles, or walking, then?
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2024-01-08 18:56:34.0 +01:00
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          > Having been to court twice for online related stuff I will absolutely couch this shit.\n
          \n
          Fair, I meant it more on “don’t do it on my accord”\n
          \n
          > I do not see how that question is doing anything but attempting some sort of gotcha or accusation that these people\n
          \n
          Your these people just seems to have some very oddly drawn lines is the heart of it. It does include poor drivers, to whom speed cameras are a problem and not that much of a solution, it does not seem to include poor people not in a car, who profit from this. My FALGSOC doesn’t have speed cameras in it - who’s would - but it’s a long way from here to there.\n
          \n
          > deserve to be fucked over instead of have real designs that don’t result in their lives being made harder. It seems like spite to me.\n
          \n
          This is running on the assumption that I think people deserve to be fucked over for speeding, and that’s the main motivation. Sure, some of them, but that’s not the kind of distinction a speed cam could make on account of how it works. I’d very much be open to them not issuing fines but other punishments - as appropiate - to not make them so classist. Loss of driving license, if you really, really fuck up in a sports car that gets impounded or such, but I’ll concede, even that is far out from today, but just to point it out,\n
          \n
          My point here is that for every one it fucks over, it helps other people not being fucked over, because it does do something against speeding. My line of reasoning for speed cams is not that it fucks people over, it’s that it helps people. You wanna focus on the first part, I’m trying to get you to see the issue is more complex than that, at least if you include people outside of cars in your consideration. They’re not a good solution, by any means, again, I assume our optimal way of solving it is quite similar. For the meantime though, the fuck else do you do? Just abandon all traffic enforcement until all the roads get fixed? So what, 20 years of being vulnerable road users being even more endangered than now?
          """
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          > A negative in the short term leads to a longterm positive.\n
          \n
          I do not want to die a martyr to the fight against traffic cams.\n
          \n
          > Also I see no other method of doing this. If you go to the council and say “I want to replace this highly profitable traffic camera making hundreds of thousands per year with a traffic island that will make no money at all” the decision that any team will make internally is obvious.\n
          \n
          That kind of poses the second question as to what, in the interim, will be cut as per budget, but that’s a sidenote. I guarantee you without change far reaching enough to societally gain a new understanding of public space and roads, when the last speed cam is dismantled you’ll find all the roads still suck ass and will not be redesigned. Once you have the change so far reaching that you can reunderstand basically every road, yeah, then you don’t need the traffic cams anymore and they can be dismantled.
          """
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          > Meanwhile, in the real world we must be concerned with actually viable change.\n
          \n
          Real Zach Brannigan hours here on account of “It might get a lot of other people killed but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make”\n
          \n
          > You are inventing a fantasy reality to suit an anti car obsession. One I share, car reduction is good. However you’re being a tit now.\n
          \n
          What part of this is fantasy. Like where do you see the political potential for a nigh nationwide road redesign.
          """
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        +body: """
          > This is the weird fantasy part I was referring to. It’s like, just nonsense. It comes off like an american attitude being ported to the UK with absolutely no adaptation whatsoever to British conditions. Our conditions are nothing like america. Getting rid of cameras and getting traffic calming measures installed instead is not particularly difficult, it’s about the same. This idea of complete and widespread reinterpretation of public space? It doesn’t make sense here.\n
          \n
          I’m german tho.\n
          \n
          > By American standards it would be considered idyllic.\n
          \n
          As such, I do not believe american standards as per roads are anything to go by\n
          \n
          > Parts of the road already have traffic calming measures.\n
          \n
          That’s not really gonna stop anybody from speeding down the remaining lane(s) because they’re still very wide. It’s good for pedestrians, probably, don’t get me wrong, doesn’t really fight the speeding problem at all.\n
          \n
          > This is very easily expanded upon with the addition of chicanes, which are in wide use (hundreds of thousands) across the country.\n
          \n
          These do\n
          \n
          > There’s no “reimagining” needed here. People don’t need to develop a new consciousness of public space.\n
          \n
          Those are very much spotwork as per slowing down cars. They work for that spot, yes. It is however absolutely not hard to accelerate a car again. This is a good idea to slow people down before a busy or a school crossing or something, the third picture especially is just going to lead to slow down / wait -&gt; mash gas pedal\n
          \n
          > We do not live in a country that is utterly obsessed with cars like america.\n
          \n
          True, but also nigh about the lowest bar to clear right after like Saudi Arabia.\n
          \n
          > There are zero political barriers to this, the only barrier is the profit/revenue barrier of the traffic camera obsessed crowd.\n
          \n
          And you accuse me of living in some fantasy reality?\n
          \n
          > In every town, in every village, in every city. Outisde every school. In every residential area. All over the country.\n
          \n
          Same, could find similar features here by looking out my old apartments window. Hell, do you one better than that, we have shit like this\n
          \n
          ![](https://hexbear.net/pictrs/image/da817aa1-0f08-452f-9f76-95587ddeb3e0.png)\n
          \n
          Sorry for the grainy pictures, didn’t wanna spend that much time on google. Now that’s a road you can’t speed on, on account of many chicanes and other built up enviroments, not just the single one and then it’s open road before and after.\n
          \n
          Doesn’t mean the rest of it isn’t incredibly car brained and hostile, and as such, transportation by foot or cycling sucks major ass.\n
          \n
          If your vision of not being carbrained is “do better than the USA”, yeah, you’re there, but that shouldn’t be the end goal
          """
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  +body: """
    > Croydon council responded to FOI request stating it costs £2.5-£3.5k to install traffic islands. The cost of a speed camera installation on the other hand is £85,000 according to Bedford Council, with a £5000 annual upkeep cost.\n
    \n
    Croydon cites average cost for roughly such an action at 2,5k - 3,5k in a denial of the FOI request which means there’s pretty much no way to know how much it actually costs depending on what they calculate the average on and if you have any idea about the cost of public works that number should strike you as very, very oddly low.\n
    \n
    Wiltshire government [here](https://www.wiltshire.gov.uk/article/1281/Costs-of-highway-works) cites about 45.000k for a traffic island narrowing a road to one lane, all in all.\n
    \n
    The source you cite for the cameras, however, puts those costs for 2 cameras, so 42,500 a pop / 2500 upkeep annual, albeit with returns via fines obviously.
    """
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    +slug: "Speed-camera-cut-down-for-second-time-in-Cornwall"
    +title: "Speed camera cut down for second time in Cornwall"
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    +body: "It’s insane the lengths that some people will go to save a few seconds on their commute, while also endangering others."
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      date: 2024-01-11 17:32:35.0 +01:00
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      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "I mean so what’s to be done then. I agree on “redesign pretty much every street or road” but like, until then, it’s just a great big free for all?"
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          date: 2024-01-07 11:43:26.0 +01:00
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
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        +body: """
          > The US, for instance, doesn’t have speed cameras\n
          \n
          That’s just straight up wrong.
          """
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          date: 2024-01-07 12:01:02.0 +01:00
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
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        +body: "Speaking from germany, 33 in a 30 wouldn’t even trip the speed cams here. Earliest infraction is basically doing 6mph over on a 30mph road, which would come at 50€ fine. We apparently also have 50 times less speed cameras and it absolutely does not stop people from fucking malding over them. They have to be designed bulletproof here now and even those still get regularly blown up. None of the points you raise change anything about it, because the core issue is people are terminally car brained"
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          "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Saff@lemmy.ml"
        ]
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
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        +body: "I’m not sure if you’re being serious here"
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
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          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:25:09.0 +01:00
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      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
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        +body: """
          > Why not?\n
          \n
          Because that’s hardly what can be considered a realistic solution. Again, not against it, but what, are you gonna close down like 90% of roads? Only some of them, if so, which ones, and how is stuff handled on the ones that remain open?
          """
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:42:56.0 +01:00
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      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
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        +body: """
          > just roads that “require” speed cameras.\n
          \n
          So when’s that the case or not
          """
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2092
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        +body: "It’s a bad TL;DR but they do lay out why it’s illegal"
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          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
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      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2351
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
        +body: "What’s your usual transportation method?"
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2024-01-08 17:03:55.0 +01:00
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          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
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      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2327
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        +body: """
          > You want people to actually slow down? Redesign the road.\n
          \n
          I’ve posed this question elsewhere in this thread and: what until then? Like what do you do until a good, what, 50 - 90% of road depending on criteria, is redesigned?
          """
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      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2143
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        +body: """
          > Croydon council responded to FOI request stating it costs £2.5-£3.5k to install traffic islands. The cost of a speed camera installation on the other hand is £85,000 according to Bedford Council, with a £5000 annual upkeep cost.\n
          \n
          Croydon cites average cost for roughly such an action at 2,5k - 3,5k in a denial of the FOI request which means there’s pretty much no way to know how much it actually costs depending on what they calculate the average on and if you have any idea about the cost of public works that number should strike you as very, very oddly low.\n
          \n
          Wiltshire government [here](https://www.wiltshire.gov.uk/article/1281/Costs-of-highway-works) cites about 45.000k for a traffic island narrowing a road to one lane, all in all.\n
          \n
          The source you cite for the cameras, however, puts those costs for 2 cameras, so 42,500 a pop / 2500 upkeep annual, albeit with returns via fines obviously.
          """
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        }
        +"title": 291995
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2051}
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2104
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        +body: """
          You can just say yes, you don’t have to couch this shit in a good WKUK skit.\n
          \n
          Do they do harm to the poor that are on bicycles, or walking, then?
          """
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        +"title": 292004
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2118
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        +body: """
          > Having been to court twice for online related stuff I will absolutely couch this shit.\n
          \n
          Fair, I meant it more on “don’t do it on my accord”\n
          \n
          > I do not see how that question is doing anything but attempting some sort of gotcha or accusation that these people\n
          \n
          Your these people just seems to have some very oddly drawn lines is the heart of it. It does include poor drivers, to whom speed cameras are a problem and not that much of a solution, it does not seem to include poor people not in a car, who profit from this. My FALGSOC doesn’t have speed cameras in it - who’s would - but it’s a long way from here to there.\n
          \n
          > deserve to be fucked over instead of have real designs that don’t result in their lives being made harder. It seems like spite to me.\n
          \n
          This is running on the assumption that I think people deserve to be fucked over for speeding, and that’s the main motivation. Sure, some of them, but that’s not the kind of distinction a speed cam could make on account of how it works. I’d very much be open to them not issuing fines but other punishments - as appropiate - to not make them so classist. Loss of driving license, if you really, really fuck up in a sports car that gets impounded or such, but I’ll concede, even that is far out from today, but just to point it out,\n
          \n
          My point here is that for every one it fucks over, it helps other people not being fucked over, because it does do something against speeding. My line of reasoning for speed cams is not that it fucks people over, it’s that it helps people. You wanna focus on the first part, I’m trying to get you to see the issue is more complex than that, at least if you include people outside of cars in your consideration. They’re not a good solution, by any means, again, I assume our optimal way of solving it is quite similar. For the meantime though, the fuck else do you do? Just abandon all traffic enforcement until all the roads get fixed? So what, 20 years of being vulnerable road users being even more endangered than now?
          """
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          > A negative in the short term leads to a longterm positive.\n
          \n
          I do not want to die a martyr to the fight against traffic cams.\n
          \n
          > Also I see no other method of doing this. If you go to the council and say “I want to replace this highly profitable traffic camera making hundreds of thousands per year with a traffic island that will make no money at all” the decision that any team will make internally is obvious.\n
          \n
          That kind of poses the second question as to what, in the interim, will be cut as per budget, but that’s a sidenote. I guarantee you without change far reaching enough to societally gain a new understanding of public space and roads, when the last speed cam is dismantled you’ll find all the roads still suck ass and will not be redesigned. Once you have the change so far reaching that you can reunderstand basically every road, yeah, then you don’t need the traffic cams anymore and they can be dismantled.
          """
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2322
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          > Meanwhile, in the real world we must be concerned with actually viable change.\n
          \n
          Real Zach Brannigan hours here on account of “It might get a lot of other people killed but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make”\n
          \n
          > You are inventing a fantasy reality to suit an anti car obsession. One I share, car reduction is good. However you’re being a tit now.\n
          \n
          What part of this is fantasy. Like where do you see the political potential for a nigh nationwide road redesign.
          """
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2294
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        +body: """
          > This is the weird fantasy part I was referring to. It’s like, just nonsense. It comes off like an american attitude being ported to the UK with absolutely no adaptation whatsoever to British conditions. Our conditions are nothing like america. Getting rid of cameras and getting traffic calming measures installed instead is not particularly difficult, it’s about the same. This idea of complete and widespread reinterpretation of public space? It doesn’t make sense here.\n
          \n
          I’m german tho.\n
          \n
          > By American standards it would be considered idyllic.\n
          \n
          As such, I do not believe american standards as per roads are anything to go by\n
          \n
          > Parts of the road already have traffic calming measures.\n
          \n
          That’s not really gonna stop anybody from speeding down the remaining lane(s) because they’re still very wide. It’s good for pedestrians, probably, don’t get me wrong, doesn’t really fight the speeding problem at all.\n
          \n
          > This is very easily expanded upon with the addition of chicanes, which are in wide use (hundreds of thousands) across the country.\n
          \n
          These do\n
          \n
          > There’s no “reimagining” needed here. People don’t need to develop a new consciousness of public space.\n
          \n
          Those are very much spotwork as per slowing down cars. They work for that spot, yes. It is however absolutely not hard to accelerate a car again. This is a good idea to slow people down before a busy or a school crossing or something, the third picture especially is just going to lead to slow down / wait -&gt; mash gas pedal\n
          \n
          > We do not live in a country that is utterly obsessed with cars like america.\n
          \n
          True, but also nigh about the lowest bar to clear right after like Saudi Arabia.\n
          \n
          > There are zero political barriers to this, the only barrier is the profit/revenue barrier of the traffic camera obsessed crowd.\n
          \n
          And you accuse me of living in some fantasy reality?\n
          \n
          > In every town, in every village, in every city. Outisde every school. In every residential area. All over the country.\n
          \n
          Same, could find similar features here by looking out my old apartments window. Hell, do you one better than that, we have shit like this\n
          \n
          ![](https://hexbear.net/pictrs/image/da817aa1-0f08-452f-9f76-95587ddeb3e0.png)\n
          \n
          Sorry for the grainy pictures, didn’t wanna spend that much time on google. Now that’s a road you can’t speed on, on account of many chicanes and other built up enviroments, not just the single one and then it’s open road before and after.\n
          \n
          Doesn’t mean the rest of it isn’t incredibly car brained and hostile, and as such, transportation by foot or cycling sucks major ass.\n
          \n
          If your vision of not being carbrained is “do better than the USA”, yeah, you’re there, but that shouldn’t be the end goal
          """
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     …2
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    > The process and length of time it takes for either option are practically the same.\n
    \n
    Sure, but you’re arguing for like instant speed camera abolishment or destruction here, aye?\n
    \n
    > Not to mention a traffic island costs like £3k while a camera costs £85k (guess why they pick the camera despite the price).\n
    \n
    Dunno if you got to that one already but I’ve did a reply pointing out where you’re a bit off there
    """
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2051
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    +slug: "Speed-camera-cut-down-for-second-time-in-Cornwall"
    +title: "Speed camera cut down for second time in Cornwall"
    +url: "https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj5g1elz57qo"
    +body: "It’s insane the lengths that some people will go to save a few seconds on their commute, while also endangering others."
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        +body: "I mean so what’s to be done then. I agree on “redesign pretty much every street or road” but like, until then, it’s just a great big free for all?"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1704624206 {#2371
          date: 2024-01-07 11:43:26.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 288370
      }
      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
        +body: """
          > The US, for instance, doesn’t have speed cameras\n
          \n
          That’s just straight up wrong.
          """
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          date: 2024-01-07 12:01:02.0 +01:00
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
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          date: 2024-01-07 12:01:02.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 288397
      }
      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2393 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
        +body: "Speaking from germany, 33 in a 30 wouldn’t even trip the speed cams here. Earliest infraction is basically doing 6mph over on a 30mph road, which would come at 50€ fine. We apparently also have 50 times less speed cameras and it absolutely does not stop people from fucking malding over them. They have to be designed bulletproof here now and even those still get regularly blown up. None of the points you raise change anything about it, because the core issue is people are terminally car brained"
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
          "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Saff@lemmy.ml"
        ]
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        -bodyTs: "'30':7 '30mph':25 '33':4 '50':31,37 '6mph':21 'absolut':44 'also':35 'anyth':77 'appar':34 'basic':19 'blown':68 'brain':89 'bulletproof':59 'cam':14 'camera':41 'car':88 'chang':76 'come':29 'core':82 'design':58 'earliest':16 'even':10,63 'fine':32 'fuck':50 'germani':3 'get':66 'infract':17 'issu':83 'less':39 'mald':51 'none':70 'peopl':48,85 'point':73 'rais':75 'regular':67 'road':26 'speak':1 'speed':13,40 'still':65 'stop':47 'termin':87 'time':38 'trip':11 'would':28 'wouldn':8"
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          date: 2024-01-07 15:15:31.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 288725
      }
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2030 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: "I’m not sure if you’re being serious here"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 3
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:25:09.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 289601
      }
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2035 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: """
          > Why not?\n
          \n
          Because that’s hardly what can be considered a realistic solution. Again, not against it, but what, are you gonna close down like 90% of roads? Only some of them, if so, which ones, and how is stuff handled on the ones that remain open?
          """
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        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:42:56.0 +01:00
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:42:56.0 +01:00
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      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: """
          > just roads that “require” speed cameras.\n
          \n
          So when’s that the case or not
          """
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          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:58:47.0 +01:00
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2092
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
        +body: "It’s a bad TL;DR but they do lay out why it’s illegal"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
          "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
        ]
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      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2351
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
        +body: "What’s your usual transportation method?"
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2024-01-08 17:03:55.0 +01:00
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          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
        ]
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        -id: 291985
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        +"title": 291985
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      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2327
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        +body: """
          > You want people to actually slow down? Redesign the road.\n
          \n
          I’ve posed this question elsewhere in this thread and: what until then? Like what do you do until a good, what, 50 - 90% of road depending on criteria, is redesigned?
          """
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        -id: 291989
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      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2143
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        +body: """
          > Croydon council responded to FOI request stating it costs £2.5-£3.5k to install traffic islands. The cost of a speed camera installation on the other hand is £85,000 according to Bedford Council, with a £5000 annual upkeep cost.\n
          \n
          Croydon cites average cost for roughly such an action at 2,5k - 3,5k in a denial of the FOI request which means there’s pretty much no way to know how much it actually costs depending on what they calculate the average on and if you have any idea about the cost of public works that number should strike you as very, very oddly low.\n
          \n
          Wiltshire government [here](https://www.wiltshire.gov.uk/article/1281/Costs-of-highway-works) cites about 45.000k for a traffic island narrowing a road to one lane, all in all.\n
          \n
          The source you cite for the cameras, however, puts those costs for 2 cameras, so 42,500 a pop / 2500 upkeep annual, albeit with returns via fines obviously.
          """
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      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2051}
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2104
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        +body: """
          You can just say yes, you don’t have to couch this shit in a good WKUK skit.\n
          \n
          Do they do harm to the poor that are on bicycles, or walking, then?
          """
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        +"title": 292004
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2118
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        +body: """
          > Having been to court twice for online related stuff I will absolutely couch this shit.\n
          \n
          Fair, I meant it more on “don’t do it on my accord”\n
          \n
          > I do not see how that question is doing anything but attempting some sort of gotcha or accusation that these people\n
          \n
          Your these people just seems to have some very oddly drawn lines is the heart of it. It does include poor drivers, to whom speed cameras are a problem and not that much of a solution, it does not seem to include poor people not in a car, who profit from this. My FALGSOC doesn’t have speed cameras in it - who’s would - but it’s a long way from here to there.\n
          \n
          > deserve to be fucked over instead of have real designs that don’t result in their lives being made harder. It seems like spite to me.\n
          \n
          This is running on the assumption that I think people deserve to be fucked over for speeding, and that’s the main motivation. Sure, some of them, but that’s not the kind of distinction a speed cam could make on account of how it works. I’d very much be open to them not issuing fines but other punishments - as appropiate - to not make them so classist. Loss of driving license, if you really, really fuck up in a sports car that gets impounded or such, but I’ll concede, even that is far out from today, but just to point it out,\n
          \n
          My point here is that for every one it fucks over, it helps other people not being fucked over, because it does do something against speeding. My line of reasoning for speed cams is not that it fucks people over, it’s that it helps people. You wanna focus on the first part, I’m trying to get you to see the issue is more complex than that, at least if you include people outside of cars in your consideration. They’re not a good solution, by any means, again, I assume our optimal way of solving it is quite similar. For the meantime though, the fuck else do you do? Just abandon all traffic enforcement until all the roads get fixed? So what, 20 years of being vulnerable road users being even more endangered than now?
          """
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          date: 2024-01-08 21:51:17.0 +01:00
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          > A negative in the short term leads to a longterm positive.\n
          \n
          I do not want to die a martyr to the fight against traffic cams.\n
          \n
          > Also I see no other method of doing this. If you go to the council and say “I want to replace this highly profitable traffic camera making hundreds of thousands per year with a traffic island that will make no money at all” the decision that any team will make internally is obvious.\n
          \n
          That kind of poses the second question as to what, in the interim, will be cut as per budget, but that’s a sidenote. I guarantee you without change far reaching enough to societally gain a new understanding of public space and roads, when the last speed cam is dismantled you’ll find all the roads still suck ass and will not be redesigned. Once you have the change so far reaching that you can reunderstand basically every road, yeah, then you don’t need the traffic cams anymore and they can be dismantled.
          """
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2322
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        +body: """
          > Meanwhile, in the real world we must be concerned with actually viable change.\n
          \n
          Real Zach Brannigan hours here on account of “It might get a lot of other people killed but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make”\n
          \n
          > You are inventing a fantasy reality to suit an anti car obsession. One I share, car reduction is good. However you’re being a tit now.\n
          \n
          What part of this is fantasy. Like where do you see the political potential for a nigh nationwide road redesign.
          """
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2294
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        +body: """
          > This is the weird fantasy part I was referring to. It’s like, just nonsense. It comes off like an american attitude being ported to the UK with absolutely no adaptation whatsoever to British conditions. Our conditions are nothing like america. Getting rid of cameras and getting traffic calming measures installed instead is not particularly difficult, it’s about the same. This idea of complete and widespread reinterpretation of public space? It doesn’t make sense here.\n
          \n
          I’m german tho.\n
          \n
          > By American standards it would be considered idyllic.\n
          \n
          As such, I do not believe american standards as per roads are anything to go by\n
          \n
          > Parts of the road already have traffic calming measures.\n
          \n
          That’s not really gonna stop anybody from speeding down the remaining lane(s) because they’re still very wide. It’s good for pedestrians, probably, don’t get me wrong, doesn’t really fight the speeding problem at all.\n
          \n
          > This is very easily expanded upon with the addition of chicanes, which are in wide use (hundreds of thousands) across the country.\n
          \n
          These do\n
          \n
          > There’s no “reimagining” needed here. People don’t need to develop a new consciousness of public space.\n
          \n
          Those are very much spotwork as per slowing down cars. They work for that spot, yes. It is however absolutely not hard to accelerate a car again. This is a good idea to slow people down before a busy or a school crossing or something, the third picture especially is just going to lead to slow down / wait -&gt; mash gas pedal\n
          \n
          > We do not live in a country that is utterly obsessed with cars like america.\n
          \n
          True, but also nigh about the lowest bar to clear right after like Saudi Arabia.\n
          \n
          > There are zero political barriers to this, the only barrier is the profit/revenue barrier of the traffic camera obsessed crowd.\n
          \n
          And you accuse me of living in some fantasy reality?\n
          \n
          > In every town, in every village, in every city. Outisde every school. In every residential area. All over the country.\n
          \n
          Same, could find similar features here by looking out my old apartments window. Hell, do you one better than that, we have shit like this\n
          \n
          ![](https://hexbear.net/pictrs/image/da817aa1-0f08-452f-9f76-95587ddeb3e0.png)\n
          \n
          Sorry for the grainy pictures, didn’t wanna spend that much time on google. Now that’s a road you can’t speed on, on account of many chicanes and other built up enviroments, not just the single one and then it’s open road before and after.\n
          \n
          Doesn’t mean the rest of it isn’t incredibly car brained and hostile, and as such, transportation by foot or cycling sucks major ass.\n
          \n
          If your vision of not being carbrained is “do better than the USA”, yeah, you’re there, but that shouldn’t be the end goal
          """
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     …2
  }
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  +body: """
    > The process and length of time it takes for either option are practically the same.\n
    \n
    Sure, but you’re arguing for like instant speed camera abolishment or destruction here, aye?\n
    \n
    > Not to mention a traffic island costs like £3k while a camera costs £85k (guess why they pick the camera despite the price).\n
    \n
    Dunno if you got to that one already but I’ve did a reply pointing out where you’re a bit off there
    """
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2051
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    +slug: "Speed-camera-cut-down-for-second-time-in-Cornwall"
    +title: "Speed camera cut down for second time in Cornwall"
    +url: "https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj5g1elz57qo"
    +body: "It’s insane the lengths that some people will go to save a few seconds on their commute, while also endangering others."
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      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
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        +body: "I mean so what’s to be done then. I agree on “redesign pretty much every street or road” but like, until then, it’s just a great big free for all?"
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
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        +body: """
          > The US, for instance, doesn’t have speed cameras\n
          \n
          That’s just straight up wrong.
          """
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
        +body: "Speaking from germany, 33 in a 30 wouldn’t even trip the speed cams here. Earliest infraction is basically doing 6mph over on a 30mph road, which would come at 50€ fine. We apparently also have 50 times less speed cameras and it absolutely does not stop people from fucking malding over them. They have to be designed bulletproof here now and even those still get regularly blown up. None of the points you raise change anything about it, because the core issue is people are terminally car brained"
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        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2024-01-07 15:15:31.0 +01:00
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
          "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Saff@lemmy.ml"
        ]
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          date: 2024-01-07 15:15:31.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 288725
      }
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2030 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: "I’m not sure if you’re being serious here"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 3
        +score: 0
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:25:09.0 +01:00
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
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        -id: 289601
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:25:09.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 289601
      }
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2035 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: """
          > Why not?\n
          \n
          Because that’s hardly what can be considered a realistic solution. Again, not against it, but what, are you gonna close down like 90% of roads? Only some of them, if so, which ones, and how is stuff handled on the ones that remain open?
          """
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        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:42:56.0 +01:00
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
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        -bodyTs: "'90':26 'close':23 'consid':10 'gonna':22 'handl':41 'hard':6 'like':25 'one':36,44 'open':47 'realist':12 'remain':46 'road':28 'solut':13 'stuff':40"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1704652976 {#2013
          date: 2024-01-07 19:42:56.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 289649
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
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        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2062 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: """
          > just roads that “require” speed cameras.\n
          \n
          So when’s that the case or not
          """
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:58:47.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 289695
      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2092
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2094 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
        +body: "It’s a bad TL;DR but they do lay out why it’s illegal"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2024-01-07 20:56:29.0 +01:00
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
          "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
        ]
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          date: 2024-01-07 20:56:29.0 +01:00
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      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2351
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2347 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
        +body: "What’s your usual transportation method?"
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2024-01-08 17:03:55.0 +01:00
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          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
        ]
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        -id: 291985
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          date: 2024-01-08 17:03:55.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 291985
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2327
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2333 …}
        +body: """
          > You want people to actually slow down? Redesign the road.\n
          \n
          I’ve posed this question elsewhere in this thread and: what until then? Like what do you do until a good, what, 50 - 90% of road depending on criteria, is redesigned?
          """
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          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
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        -id: 291989
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      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2143
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        +body: """
          > Croydon council responded to FOI request stating it costs £2.5-£3.5k to install traffic islands. The cost of a speed camera installation on the other hand is £85,000 according to Bedford Council, with a £5000 annual upkeep cost.\n
          \n
          Croydon cites average cost for roughly such an action at 2,5k - 3,5k in a denial of the FOI request which means there’s pretty much no way to know how much it actually costs depending on what they calculate the average on and if you have any idea about the cost of public works that number should strike you as very, very oddly low.\n
          \n
          Wiltshire government [here](https://www.wiltshire.gov.uk/article/1281/Costs-of-highway-works) cites about 45.000k for a traffic island narrowing a road to one lane, all in all.\n
          \n
          The source you cite for the cameras, however, puts those costs for 2 cameras, so 42,500 a pop / 2500 upkeep annual, albeit with returns via fines obviously.
          """
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        +"title": 291995
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      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2051}
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2104
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        +body: """
          You can just say yes, you don’t have to couch this shit in a good WKUK skit.\n
          \n
          Do they do harm to the poor that are on bicycles, or walking, then?
          """
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          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
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          date: 2024-01-08 18:56:34.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 292004
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2118
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        +body: """
          > Having been to court twice for online related stuff I will absolutely couch this shit.\n
          \n
          Fair, I meant it more on “don’t do it on my accord”\n
          \n
          > I do not see how that question is doing anything but attempting some sort of gotcha or accusation that these people\n
          \n
          Your these people just seems to have some very oddly drawn lines is the heart of it. It does include poor drivers, to whom speed cameras are a problem and not that much of a solution, it does not seem to include poor people not in a car, who profit from this. My FALGSOC doesn’t have speed cameras in it - who’s would - but it’s a long way from here to there.\n
          \n
          > deserve to be fucked over instead of have real designs that don’t result in their lives being made harder. It seems like spite to me.\n
          \n
          This is running on the assumption that I think people deserve to be fucked over for speeding, and that’s the main motivation. Sure, some of them, but that’s not the kind of distinction a speed cam could make on account of how it works. I’d very much be open to them not issuing fines but other punishments - as appropiate - to not make them so classist. Loss of driving license, if you really, really fuck up in a sports car that gets impounded or such, but I’ll concede, even that is far out from today, but just to point it out,\n
          \n
          My point here is that for every one it fucks over, it helps other people not being fucked over, because it does do something against speeding. My line of reasoning for speed cams is not that it fucks people over, it’s that it helps people. You wanna focus on the first part, I’m trying to get you to see the issue is more complex than that, at least if you include people outside of cars in your consideration. They’re not a good solution, by any means, again, I assume our optimal way of solving it is quite similar. For the meantime though, the fuck else do you do? Just abandon all traffic enforcement until all the roads get fixed? So what, 20 years of being vulnerable road users being even more endangered than now?
          """
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          date: 2024-01-08 21:51:17.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 292030
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2229
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        +body: """
          > A negative in the short term leads to a longterm positive.\n
          \n
          I do not want to die a martyr to the fight against traffic cams.\n
          \n
          > Also I see no other method of doing this. If you go to the council and say “I want to replace this highly profitable traffic camera making hundreds of thousands per year with a traffic island that will make no money at all” the decision that any team will make internally is obvious.\n
          \n
          That kind of poses the second question as to what, in the interim, will be cut as per budget, but that’s a sidenote. I guarantee you without change far reaching enough to societally gain a new understanding of public space and roads, when the last speed cam is dismantled you’ll find all the roads still suck ass and will not be redesigned. Once you have the change so far reaching that you can reunderstand basically every road, yeah, then you don’t need the traffic cams anymore and they can be dismantled.
          """
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          date: 2024-01-09 17:36:19.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 293739
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2322
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        +body: """
          > Meanwhile, in the real world we must be concerned with actually viable change.\n
          \n
          Real Zach Brannigan hours here on account of “It might get a lot of other people killed but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make”\n
          \n
          > You are inventing a fantasy reality to suit an anti car obsession. One I share, car reduction is good. However you’re being a tit now.\n
          \n
          What part of this is fantasy. Like where do you see the political potential for a nigh nationwide road redesign.
          """
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2294
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        +body: """
          > This is the weird fantasy part I was referring to. It’s like, just nonsense. It comes off like an american attitude being ported to the UK with absolutely no adaptation whatsoever to British conditions. Our conditions are nothing like america. Getting rid of cameras and getting traffic calming measures installed instead is not particularly difficult, it’s about the same. This idea of complete and widespread reinterpretation of public space? It doesn’t make sense here.\n
          \n
          I’m german tho.\n
          \n
          > By American standards it would be considered idyllic.\n
          \n
          As such, I do not believe american standards as per roads are anything to go by\n
          \n
          > Parts of the road already have traffic calming measures.\n
          \n
          That’s not really gonna stop anybody from speeding down the remaining lane(s) because they’re still very wide. It’s good for pedestrians, probably, don’t get me wrong, doesn’t really fight the speeding problem at all.\n
          \n
          > This is very easily expanded upon with the addition of chicanes, which are in wide use (hundreds of thousands) across the country.\n
          \n
          These do\n
          \n
          > There’s no “reimagining” needed here. People don’t need to develop a new consciousness of public space.\n
          \n
          Those are very much spotwork as per slowing down cars. They work for that spot, yes. It is however absolutely not hard to accelerate a car again. This is a good idea to slow people down before a busy or a school crossing or something, the third picture especially is just going to lead to slow down / wait -&gt; mash gas pedal\n
          \n
          > We do not live in a country that is utterly obsessed with cars like america.\n
          \n
          True, but also nigh about the lowest bar to clear right after like Saudi Arabia.\n
          \n
          > There are zero political barriers to this, the only barrier is the profit/revenue barrier of the traffic camera obsessed crowd.\n
          \n
          And you accuse me of living in some fantasy reality?\n
          \n
          > In every town, in every village, in every city. Outisde every school. In every residential area. All over the country.\n
          \n
          Same, could find similar features here by looking out my old apartments window. Hell, do you one better than that, we have shit like this\n
          \n
          ![](https://hexbear.net/pictrs/image/da817aa1-0f08-452f-9f76-95587ddeb3e0.png)\n
          \n
          Sorry for the grainy pictures, didn’t wanna spend that much time on google. Now that’s a road you can’t speed on, on account of many chicanes and other built up enviroments, not just the single one and then it’s open road before and after.\n
          \n
          Doesn’t mean the rest of it isn’t incredibly car brained and hostile, and as such, transportation by foot or cycling sucks major ass.\n
          \n
          If your vision of not being carbrained is “do better than the USA”, yeah, you’re there, but that shouldn’t be the end goal
          """
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     …2
  }
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  +body: """
    > The process and length of time it takes for either option are practically the same.\n
    \n
    Sure, but you’re arguing for like instant speed camera abolishment or destruction here, aye?\n
    \n
    > Not to mention a traffic island costs like £3k while a camera costs £85k (guess why they pick the camera despite the price).\n
    \n
    Dunno if you got to that one already but I’ve did a reply pointing out where you’re a bit off there
    """
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2104
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    +slug: "Speed-camera-cut-down-for-second-time-in-Cornwall"
    +title: "Speed camera cut down for second time in Cornwall"
    +url: "https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj5g1elz57qo"
    +body: "It’s insane the lengths that some people will go to save a few seconds on their commute, while also endangering others."
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    +children: [
      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "I mean so what’s to be done then. I agree on “redesign pretty much every street or road” but like, until then, it’s just a great big free for all?"
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
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        +body: """
          > The US, for instance, doesn’t have speed cameras\n
          \n
          That’s just straight up wrong.
          """
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
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        +body: "Speaking from germany, 33 in a 30 wouldn’t even trip the speed cams here. Earliest infraction is basically doing 6mph over on a 30mph road, which would come at 50€ fine. We apparently also have 50 times less speed cameras and it absolutely does not stop people from fucking malding over them. They have to be designed bulletproof here now and even those still get regularly blown up. None of the points you raise change anything about it, because the core issue is people are terminally car brained"
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2030 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: "I’m not sure if you’re being serious here"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 3
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:25:09.0 +01:00
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
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        -id: 289601
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1704651909 {#2019
          date: 2024-01-07 19:25:09.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 289601
      }
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2035 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: """
          > Why not?\n
          \n
          Because that’s hardly what can be considered a realistic solution. Again, not against it, but what, are you gonna close down like 90% of roads? Only some of them, if so, which ones, and how is stuff handled on the ones that remain open?
          """
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:42:56.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 289649
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
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        +body: """
          > just roads that “require” speed cameras.\n
          \n
          So when’s that the case or not
          """
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        ]
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:58:47.0 +01:00
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      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2092
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "It’s a bad TL;DR but they do lay out why it’s illegal"
        +lang: "en"
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          "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
        ]
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          date: 2024-01-07 20:56:29.0 +01:00
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      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2351
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
        +body: "What’s your usual transportation method?"
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2024-01-08 17:03:55.0 +01:00
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
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          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
        ]
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          date: 2024-01-08 17:03:55.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 291985
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2327
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        +body: """
          > You want people to actually slow down? Redesign the road.\n
          \n
          I’ve posed this question elsewhere in this thread and: what until then? Like what do you do until a good, what, 50 - 90% of road depending on criteria, is redesigned?
          """
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
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        -id: 291989
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      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2143
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        +body: """
          > Croydon council responded to FOI request stating it costs £2.5-£3.5k to install traffic islands. The cost of a speed camera installation on the other hand is £85,000 according to Bedford Council, with a £5000 annual upkeep cost.\n
          \n
          Croydon cites average cost for roughly such an action at 2,5k - 3,5k in a denial of the FOI request which means there’s pretty much no way to know how much it actually costs depending on what they calculate the average on and if you have any idea about the cost of public works that number should strike you as very, very oddly low.\n
          \n
          Wiltshire government [here](https://www.wiltshire.gov.uk/article/1281/Costs-of-highway-works) cites about 45.000k for a traffic island narrowing a road to one lane, all in all.\n
          \n
          The source you cite for the cameras, however, puts those costs for 2 cameras, so 42,500 a pop / 2500 upkeep annual, albeit with returns via fines obviously.
          """
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        +"title": 291995
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2051
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        +body: """
          > The process and length of time it takes for either option are practically the same.\n
          \n
          Sure, but you’re arguing for like instant speed camera abolishment or destruction here, aye?\n
          \n
          > Not to mention a traffic island costs like £3k while a camera costs £85k (guess why they pick the camera despite the price).\n
          \n
          Dunno if you got to that one already but I’ve did a reply pointing out where you’re a bit off there
          """
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      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2104}
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2118
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        +body: """
          > Having been to court twice for online related stuff I will absolutely couch this shit.\n
          \n
          Fair, I meant it more on “don’t do it on my accord”\n
          \n
          > I do not see how that question is doing anything but attempting some sort of gotcha or accusation that these people\n
          \n
          Your these people just seems to have some very oddly drawn lines is the heart of it. It does include poor drivers, to whom speed cameras are a problem and not that much of a solution, it does not seem to include poor people not in a car, who profit from this. My FALGSOC doesn’t have speed cameras in it - who’s would - but it’s a long way from here to there.\n
          \n
          > deserve to be fucked over instead of have real designs that don’t result in their lives being made harder. It seems like spite to me.\n
          \n
          This is running on the assumption that I think people deserve to be fucked over for speeding, and that’s the main motivation. Sure, some of them, but that’s not the kind of distinction a speed cam could make on account of how it works. I’d very much be open to them not issuing fines but other punishments - as appropiate - to not make them so classist. Loss of driving license, if you really, really fuck up in a sports car that gets impounded or such, but I’ll concede, even that is far out from today, but just to point it out,\n
          \n
          My point here is that for every one it fucks over, it helps other people not being fucked over, because it does do something against speeding. My line of reasoning for speed cams is not that it fucks people over, it’s that it helps people. You wanna focus on the first part, I’m trying to get you to see the issue is more complex than that, at least if you include people outside of cars in your consideration. They’re not a good solution, by any means, again, I assume our optimal way of solving it is quite similar. For the meantime though, the fuck else do you do? Just abandon all traffic enforcement until all the roads get fixed? So what, 20 years of being vulnerable road users being even more endangered than now?
          """
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        +"title": 292030
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2229
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        +body: """
          > A negative in the short term leads to a longterm positive.\n
          \n
          I do not want to die a martyr to the fight against traffic cams.\n
          \n
          > Also I see no other method of doing this. If you go to the council and say “I want to replace this highly profitable traffic camera making hundreds of thousands per year with a traffic island that will make no money at all” the decision that any team will make internally is obvious.\n
          \n
          That kind of poses the second question as to what, in the interim, will be cut as per budget, but that’s a sidenote. I guarantee you without change far reaching enough to societally gain a new understanding of public space and roads, when the last speed cam is dismantled you’ll find all the roads still suck ass and will not be redesigned. Once you have the change so far reaching that you can reunderstand basically every road, yeah, then you don’t need the traffic cams anymore and they can be dismantled.
          """
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          date: 2024-01-09 17:36:19.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 293739
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2322
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        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
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        +body: """
          > Meanwhile, in the real world we must be concerned with actually viable change.\n
          \n
          Real Zach Brannigan hours here on account of “It might get a lot of other people killed but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make”\n
          \n
          > You are inventing a fantasy reality to suit an anti car obsession. One I share, car reduction is good. However you’re being a tit now.\n
          \n
          What part of this is fantasy. Like where do you see the political potential for a nigh nationwide road redesign.
          """
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          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2294
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2333 …}
        +body: """
          > This is the weird fantasy part I was referring to. It’s like, just nonsense. It comes off like an american attitude being ported to the UK with absolutely no adaptation whatsoever to British conditions. Our conditions are nothing like america. Getting rid of cameras and getting traffic calming measures installed instead is not particularly difficult, it’s about the same. This idea of complete and widespread reinterpretation of public space? It doesn’t make sense here.\n
          \n
          I’m german tho.\n
          \n
          > By American standards it would be considered idyllic.\n
          \n
          As such, I do not believe american standards as per roads are anything to go by\n
          \n
          > Parts of the road already have traffic calming measures.\n
          \n
          That’s not really gonna stop anybody from speeding down the remaining lane(s) because they’re still very wide. It’s good for pedestrians, probably, don’t get me wrong, doesn’t really fight the speeding problem at all.\n
          \n
          > This is very easily expanded upon with the addition of chicanes, which are in wide use (hundreds of thousands) across the country.\n
          \n
          These do\n
          \n
          > There’s no “reimagining” needed here. People don’t need to develop a new consciousness of public space.\n
          \n
          Those are very much spotwork as per slowing down cars. They work for that spot, yes. It is however absolutely not hard to accelerate a car again. This is a good idea to slow people down before a busy or a school crossing or something, the third picture especially is just going to lead to slow down / wait -&gt; mash gas pedal\n
          \n
          > We do not live in a country that is utterly obsessed with cars like america.\n
          \n
          True, but also nigh about the lowest bar to clear right after like Saudi Arabia.\n
          \n
          > There are zero political barriers to this, the only barrier is the profit/revenue barrier of the traffic camera obsessed crowd.\n
          \n
          And you accuse me of living in some fantasy reality?\n
          \n
          > In every town, in every village, in every city. Outisde every school. In every residential area. All over the country.\n
          \n
          Same, could find similar features here by looking out my old apartments window. Hell, do you one better than that, we have shit like this\n
          \n
          ![](https://hexbear.net/pictrs/image/da817aa1-0f08-452f-9f76-95587ddeb3e0.png)\n
          \n
          Sorry for the grainy pictures, didn’t wanna spend that much time on google. Now that’s a road you can’t speed on, on account of many chicanes and other built up enviroments, not just the single one and then it’s open road before and after.\n
          \n
          Doesn’t mean the rest of it isn’t incredibly car brained and hostile, and as such, transportation by foot or cycling sucks major ass.\n
          \n
          If your vision of not being carbrained is “do better than the USA”, yeah, you’re there, but that shouldn’t be the end goal
          """
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    ]
    -id: 27607
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      date: 2024-01-06 13:45:17.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
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  +body: """
    You can just say yes, you don’t have to couch this shit in a good WKUK skit.\n
    \n
    Do they do harm to the poor that are on bicycles, or walking, then?
    """
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    "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
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    date: 2024-01-08 18:56:34.0 +01:00
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2104
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2695 …}
    +slug: "Speed-camera-cut-down-for-second-time-in-Cornwall"
    +title: "Speed camera cut down for second time in Cornwall"
    +url: "https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj5g1elz57qo"
    +body: "It’s insane the lengths that some people will go to save a few seconds on their commute, while also endangering others."
    +type: "link"
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    +children: [
      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "I mean so what’s to be done then. I agree on “redesign pretty much every street or road” but like, until then, it’s just a great big free for all?"
        +lang: "en"
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
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          date: 2024-01-07 11:43:26.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 288370
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
        +body: """
          > The US, for instance, doesn’t have speed cameras\n
          \n
          That’s just straight up wrong.
          """
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          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
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        +body: "Speaking from germany, 33 in a 30 wouldn’t even trip the speed cams here. Earliest infraction is basically doing 6mph over on a 30mph road, which would come at 50€ fine. We apparently also have 50 times less speed cameras and it absolutely does not stop people from fucking malding over them. They have to be designed bulletproof here now and even those still get regularly blown up. None of the points you raise change anything about it, because the core issue is people are terminally car brained"
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          "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Saff@lemmy.ml"
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "I’m not sure if you’re being serious here"
        +lang: "en"
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          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
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        -id: 289601
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:25:09.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 289601
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      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: """
          > Why not?\n
          \n
          Because that’s hardly what can be considered a realistic solution. Again, not against it, but what, are you gonna close down like 90% of roads? Only some of them, if so, which ones, and how is stuff handled on the ones that remain open?
          """
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:42:56.0 +01:00
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        +body: """
          > just roads that “require” speed cameras.\n
          \n
          So when’s that the case or not
          """
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2092
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        +body: "It’s a bad TL;DR but they do lay out why it’s illegal"
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      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2351
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        +body: "What’s your usual transportation method?"
        +lang: "en"
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      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2327
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        +body: """
          > You want people to actually slow down? Redesign the road.\n
          \n
          I’ve posed this question elsewhere in this thread and: what until then? Like what do you do until a good, what, 50 - 90% of road depending on criteria, is redesigned?
          """
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      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2143
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        +body: """
          > Croydon council responded to FOI request stating it costs £2.5-£3.5k to install traffic islands. The cost of a speed camera installation on the other hand is £85,000 according to Bedford Council, with a £5000 annual upkeep cost.\n
          \n
          Croydon cites average cost for roughly such an action at 2,5k - 3,5k in a denial of the FOI request which means there’s pretty much no way to know how much it actually costs depending on what they calculate the average on and if you have any idea about the cost of public works that number should strike you as very, very oddly low.\n
          \n
          Wiltshire government [here](https://www.wiltshire.gov.uk/article/1281/Costs-of-highway-works) cites about 45.000k for a traffic island narrowing a road to one lane, all in all.\n
          \n
          The source you cite for the cameras, however, puts those costs for 2 cameras, so 42,500 a pop / 2500 upkeep annual, albeit with returns via fines obviously.
          """
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      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2051
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          > The process and length of time it takes for either option are practically the same.\n
          \n
          Sure, but you’re arguing for like instant speed camera abolishment or destruction here, aye?\n
          \n
          > Not to mention a traffic island costs like £3k while a camera costs £85k (guess why they pick the camera despite the price).\n
          \n
          Dunno if you got to that one already but I’ve did a reply pointing out where you’re a bit off there
          """
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      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2104}
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2118
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        +body: """
          > Having been to court twice for online related stuff I will absolutely couch this shit.\n
          \n
          Fair, I meant it more on “don’t do it on my accord”\n
          \n
          > I do not see how that question is doing anything but attempting some sort of gotcha or accusation that these people\n
          \n
          Your these people just seems to have some very oddly drawn lines is the heart of it. It does include poor drivers, to whom speed cameras are a problem and not that much of a solution, it does not seem to include poor people not in a car, who profit from this. My FALGSOC doesn’t have speed cameras in it - who’s would - but it’s a long way from here to there.\n
          \n
          > deserve to be fucked over instead of have real designs that don’t result in their lives being made harder. It seems like spite to me.\n
          \n
          This is running on the assumption that I think people deserve to be fucked over for speeding, and that’s the main motivation. Sure, some of them, but that’s not the kind of distinction a speed cam could make on account of how it works. I’d very much be open to them not issuing fines but other punishments - as appropiate - to not make them so classist. Loss of driving license, if you really, really fuck up in a sports car that gets impounded or such, but I’ll concede, even that is far out from today, but just to point it out,\n
          \n
          My point here is that for every one it fucks over, it helps other people not being fucked over, because it does do something against speeding. My line of reasoning for speed cams is not that it fucks people over, it’s that it helps people. You wanna focus on the first part, I’m trying to get you to see the issue is more complex than that, at least if you include people outside of cars in your consideration. They’re not a good solution, by any means, again, I assume our optimal way of solving it is quite similar. For the meantime though, the fuck else do you do? Just abandon all traffic enforcement until all the roads get fixed? So what, 20 years of being vulnerable road users being even more endangered than now?
          """
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2229
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        +body: """
          > A negative in the short term leads to a longterm positive.\n
          \n
          I do not want to die a martyr to the fight against traffic cams.\n
          \n
          > Also I see no other method of doing this. If you go to the council and say “I want to replace this highly profitable traffic camera making hundreds of thousands per year with a traffic island that will make no money at all” the decision that any team will make internally is obvious.\n
          \n
          That kind of poses the second question as to what, in the interim, will be cut as per budget, but that’s a sidenote. I guarantee you without change far reaching enough to societally gain a new understanding of public space and roads, when the last speed cam is dismantled you’ll find all the roads still suck ass and will not be redesigned. Once you have the change so far reaching that you can reunderstand basically every road, yeah, then you don’t need the traffic cams anymore and they can be dismantled.
          """
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2322
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        +body: """
          > Meanwhile, in the real world we must be concerned with actually viable change.\n
          \n
          Real Zach Brannigan hours here on account of “It might get a lot of other people killed but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make”\n
          \n
          > You are inventing a fantasy reality to suit an anti car obsession. One I share, car reduction is good. However you’re being a tit now.\n
          \n
          What part of this is fantasy. Like where do you see the political potential for a nigh nationwide road redesign.
          """
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2294
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        +body: """
          > This is the weird fantasy part I was referring to. It’s like, just nonsense. It comes off like an american attitude being ported to the UK with absolutely no adaptation whatsoever to British conditions. Our conditions are nothing like america. Getting rid of cameras and getting traffic calming measures installed instead is not particularly difficult, it’s about the same. This idea of complete and widespread reinterpretation of public space? It doesn’t make sense here.\n
          \n
          I’m german tho.\n
          \n
          > By American standards it would be considered idyllic.\n
          \n
          As such, I do not believe american standards as per roads are anything to go by\n
          \n
          > Parts of the road already have traffic calming measures.\n
          \n
          That’s not really gonna stop anybody from speeding down the remaining lane(s) because they’re still very wide. It’s good for pedestrians, probably, don’t get me wrong, doesn’t really fight the speeding problem at all.\n
          \n
          > This is very easily expanded upon with the addition of chicanes, which are in wide use (hundreds of thousands) across the country.\n
          \n
          These do\n
          \n
          > There’s no “reimagining” needed here. People don’t need to develop a new consciousness of public space.\n
          \n
          Those are very much spotwork as per slowing down cars. They work for that spot, yes. It is however absolutely not hard to accelerate a car again. This is a good idea to slow people down before a busy or a school crossing or something, the third picture especially is just going to lead to slow down / wait -&gt; mash gas pedal\n
          \n
          > We do not live in a country that is utterly obsessed with cars like america.\n
          \n
          True, but also nigh about the lowest bar to clear right after like Saudi Arabia.\n
          \n
          > There are zero political barriers to this, the only barrier is the profit/revenue barrier of the traffic camera obsessed crowd.\n
          \n
          And you accuse me of living in some fantasy reality?\n
          \n
          > In every town, in every village, in every city. Outisde every school. In every residential area. All over the country.\n
          \n
          Same, could find similar features here by looking out my old apartments window. Hell, do you one better than that, we have shit like this\n
          \n
          ![](https://hexbear.net/pictrs/image/da817aa1-0f08-452f-9f76-95587ddeb3e0.png)\n
          \n
          Sorry for the grainy pictures, didn’t wanna spend that much time on google. Now that’s a road you can’t speed on, on account of many chicanes and other built up enviroments, not just the single one and then it’s open road before and after.\n
          \n
          Doesn’t mean the rest of it isn’t incredibly car brained and hostile, and as such, transportation by foot or cycling sucks major ass.\n
          \n
          If your vision of not being carbrained is “do better than the USA”, yeah, you’re there, but that shouldn’t be the end goal
          """
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     …2
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  +body: """
    You can just say yes, you don’t have to couch this shit in a good WKUK skit.\n
    \n
    Do they do harm to the poor that are on bicycles, or walking, then?
    """
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2104
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    +slug: "Speed-camera-cut-down-for-second-time-in-Cornwall"
    +title: "Speed camera cut down for second time in Cornwall"
    +url: "https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj5g1elz57qo"
    +body: "It’s insane the lengths that some people will go to save a few seconds on their commute, while also endangering others."
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      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
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        +body: "I mean so what’s to be done then. I agree on “redesign pretty much every street or road” but like, until then, it’s just a great big free for all?"
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
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        +body: """
          > The US, for instance, doesn’t have speed cameras\n
          \n
          That’s just straight up wrong.
          """
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        +body: "Speaking from germany, 33 in a 30 wouldn’t even trip the speed cams here. Earliest infraction is basically doing 6mph over on a 30mph road, which would come at 50€ fine. We apparently also have 50 times less speed cameras and it absolutely does not stop people from fucking malding over them. They have to be designed bulletproof here now and even those still get regularly blown up. None of the points you raise change anything about it, because the core issue is people are terminally car brained"
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        +body: "I’m not sure if you’re being serious here"
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      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
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        +body: """
          > Why not?\n
          \n
          Because that’s hardly what can be considered a realistic solution. Again, not against it, but what, are you gonna close down like 90% of roads? Only some of them, if so, which ones, and how is stuff handled on the ones that remain open?
          """
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      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
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        +body: """
          > just roads that “require” speed cameras.\n
          \n
          So when’s that the case or not
          """
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        +body: "It’s a bad TL;DR but they do lay out why it’s illegal"
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          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
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      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2351
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        +body: "What’s your usual transportation method?"
        +lang: "en"
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          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
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      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2327
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        +body: """
          > You want people to actually slow down? Redesign the road.\n
          \n
          I’ve posed this question elsewhere in this thread and: what until then? Like what do you do until a good, what, 50 - 90% of road depending on criteria, is redesigned?
          """
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      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2143
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        +body: """
          > Croydon council responded to FOI request stating it costs £2.5-£3.5k to install traffic islands. The cost of a speed camera installation on the other hand is £85,000 according to Bedford Council, with a £5000 annual upkeep cost.\n
          \n
          Croydon cites average cost for roughly such an action at 2,5k - 3,5k in a denial of the FOI request which means there’s pretty much no way to know how much it actually costs depending on what they calculate the average on and if you have any idea about the cost of public works that number should strike you as very, very oddly low.\n
          \n
          Wiltshire government [here](https://www.wiltshire.gov.uk/article/1281/Costs-of-highway-works) cites about 45.000k for a traffic island narrowing a road to one lane, all in all.\n
          \n
          The source you cite for the cameras, however, puts those costs for 2 cameras, so 42,500 a pop / 2500 upkeep annual, albeit with returns via fines obviously.
          """
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          > The process and length of time it takes for either option are practically the same.\n
          \n
          Sure, but you’re arguing for like instant speed camera abolishment or destruction here, aye?\n
          \n
          > Not to mention a traffic island costs like £3k while a camera costs £85k (guess why they pick the camera despite the price).\n
          \n
          Dunno if you got to that one already but I’ve did a reply pointing out where you’re a bit off there
          """
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      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2104}
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2118
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        +body: """
          > Having been to court twice for online related stuff I will absolutely couch this shit.\n
          \n
          Fair, I meant it more on “don’t do it on my accord”\n
          \n
          > I do not see how that question is doing anything but attempting some sort of gotcha or accusation that these people\n
          \n
          Your these people just seems to have some very oddly drawn lines is the heart of it. It does include poor drivers, to whom speed cameras are a problem and not that much of a solution, it does not seem to include poor people not in a car, who profit from this. My FALGSOC doesn’t have speed cameras in it - who’s would - but it’s a long way from here to there.\n
          \n
          > deserve to be fucked over instead of have real designs that don’t result in their lives being made harder. It seems like spite to me.\n
          \n
          This is running on the assumption that I think people deserve to be fucked over for speeding, and that’s the main motivation. Sure, some of them, but that’s not the kind of distinction a speed cam could make on account of how it works. I’d very much be open to them not issuing fines but other punishments - as appropiate - to not make them so classist. Loss of driving license, if you really, really fuck up in a sports car that gets impounded or such, but I’ll concede, even that is far out from today, but just to point it out,\n
          \n
          My point here is that for every one it fucks over, it helps other people not being fucked over, because it does do something against speeding. My line of reasoning for speed cams is not that it fucks people over, it’s that it helps people. You wanna focus on the first part, I’m trying to get you to see the issue is more complex than that, at least if you include people outside of cars in your consideration. They’re not a good solution, by any means, again, I assume our optimal way of solving it is quite similar. For the meantime though, the fuck else do you do? Just abandon all traffic enforcement until all the roads get fixed? So what, 20 years of being vulnerable road users being even more endangered than now?
          """
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2229
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          > A negative in the short term leads to a longterm positive.\n
          \n
          I do not want to die a martyr to the fight against traffic cams.\n
          \n
          > Also I see no other method of doing this. If you go to the council and say “I want to replace this highly profitable traffic camera making hundreds of thousands per year with a traffic island that will make no money at all” the decision that any team will make internally is obvious.\n
          \n
          That kind of poses the second question as to what, in the interim, will be cut as per budget, but that’s a sidenote. I guarantee you without change far reaching enough to societally gain a new understanding of public space and roads, when the last speed cam is dismantled you’ll find all the roads still suck ass and will not be redesigned. Once you have the change so far reaching that you can reunderstand basically every road, yeah, then you don’t need the traffic cams anymore and they can be dismantled.
          """
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2322
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          > Meanwhile, in the real world we must be concerned with actually viable change.\n
          \n
          Real Zach Brannigan hours here on account of “It might get a lot of other people killed but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make”\n
          \n
          > You are inventing a fantasy reality to suit an anti car obsession. One I share, car reduction is good. However you’re being a tit now.\n
          \n
          What part of this is fantasy. Like where do you see the political potential for a nigh nationwide road redesign.
          """
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2294
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        +body: """
          > This is the weird fantasy part I was referring to. It’s like, just nonsense. It comes off like an american attitude being ported to the UK with absolutely no adaptation whatsoever to British conditions. Our conditions are nothing like america. Getting rid of cameras and getting traffic calming measures installed instead is not particularly difficult, it’s about the same. This idea of complete and widespread reinterpretation of public space? It doesn’t make sense here.\n
          \n
          I’m german tho.\n
          \n
          > By American standards it would be considered idyllic.\n
          \n
          As such, I do not believe american standards as per roads are anything to go by\n
          \n
          > Parts of the road already have traffic calming measures.\n
          \n
          That’s not really gonna stop anybody from speeding down the remaining lane(s) because they’re still very wide. It’s good for pedestrians, probably, don’t get me wrong, doesn’t really fight the speeding problem at all.\n
          \n
          > This is very easily expanded upon with the addition of chicanes, which are in wide use (hundreds of thousands) across the country.\n
          \n
          These do\n
          \n
          > There’s no “reimagining” needed here. People don’t need to develop a new consciousness of public space.\n
          \n
          Those are very much spotwork as per slowing down cars. They work for that spot, yes. It is however absolutely not hard to accelerate a car again. This is a good idea to slow people down before a busy or a school crossing or something, the third picture especially is just going to lead to slow down / wait -&gt; mash gas pedal\n
          \n
          > We do not live in a country that is utterly obsessed with cars like america.\n
          \n
          True, but also nigh about the lowest bar to clear right after like Saudi Arabia.\n
          \n
          > There are zero political barriers to this, the only barrier is the profit/revenue barrier of the traffic camera obsessed crowd.\n
          \n
          And you accuse me of living in some fantasy reality?\n
          \n
          > In every town, in every village, in every city. Outisde every school. In every residential area. All over the country.\n
          \n
          Same, could find similar features here by looking out my old apartments window. Hell, do you one better than that, we have shit like this\n
          \n
          ![](https://hexbear.net/pictrs/image/da817aa1-0f08-452f-9f76-95587ddeb3e0.png)\n
          \n
          Sorry for the grainy pictures, didn’t wanna spend that much time on google. Now that’s a road you can’t speed on, on account of many chicanes and other built up enviroments, not just the single one and then it’s open road before and after.\n
          \n
          Doesn’t mean the rest of it isn’t incredibly car brained and hostile, and as such, transportation by foot or cycling sucks major ass.\n
          \n
          If your vision of not being carbrained is “do better than the USA”, yeah, you’re there, but that shouldn’t be the end goal
          """
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      date: 2024-01-06 13:45:17.0 +01:00
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     …2
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  +body: """
    You can just say yes, you don’t have to couch this shit in a good WKUK skit.\n
    \n
    Do they do harm to the poor that are on bicycles, or walking, then?
    """
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2118
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    +slug: "Speed-camera-cut-down-for-second-time-in-Cornwall"
    +title: "Speed camera cut down for second time in Cornwall"
    +url: "https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj5g1elz57qo"
    +body: "It’s insane the lengths that some people will go to save a few seconds on their commute, while also endangering others."
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      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
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        +body: "I mean so what’s to be done then. I agree on “redesign pretty much every street or road” but like, until then, it’s just a great big free for all?"
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
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        +body: """
          > The US, for instance, doesn’t have speed cameras\n
          \n
          That’s just straight up wrong.
          """
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        +body: "Speaking from germany, 33 in a 30 wouldn’t even trip the speed cams here. Earliest infraction is basically doing 6mph over on a 30mph road, which would come at 50€ fine. We apparently also have 50 times less speed cameras and it absolutely does not stop people from fucking malding over them. They have to be designed bulletproof here now and even those still get regularly blown up. None of the points you raise change anything about it, because the core issue is people are terminally car brained"
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
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        +body: "I’m not sure if you’re being serious here"
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      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
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        +body: """
          > Why not?\n
          \n
          Because that’s hardly what can be considered a realistic solution. Again, not against it, but what, are you gonna close down like 90% of roads? Only some of them, if so, which ones, and how is stuff handled on the ones that remain open?
          """
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      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
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        +body: """
          > just roads that “require” speed cameras.\n
          \n
          So when’s that the case or not
          """
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2092
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        +body: "It’s a bad TL;DR but they do lay out why it’s illegal"
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          date: 2024-01-07 20:56:29.0 +01:00
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      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2351
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        +body: "What’s your usual transportation method?"
        +lang: "en"
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          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
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      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2327
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        +body: """
          > You want people to actually slow down? Redesign the road.\n
          \n
          I’ve posed this question elsewhere in this thread and: what until then? Like what do you do until a good, what, 50 - 90% of road depending on criteria, is redesigned?
          """
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      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2143
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          > Croydon council responded to FOI request stating it costs £2.5-£3.5k to install traffic islands. The cost of a speed camera installation on the other hand is £85,000 according to Bedford Council, with a £5000 annual upkeep cost.\n
          \n
          Croydon cites average cost for roughly such an action at 2,5k - 3,5k in a denial of the FOI request which means there’s pretty much no way to know how much it actually costs depending on what they calculate the average on and if you have any idea about the cost of public works that number should strike you as very, very oddly low.\n
          \n
          Wiltshire government [here](https://www.wiltshire.gov.uk/article/1281/Costs-of-highway-works) cites about 45.000k for a traffic island narrowing a road to one lane, all in all.\n
          \n
          The source you cite for the cameras, however, puts those costs for 2 cameras, so 42,500 a pop / 2500 upkeep annual, albeit with returns via fines obviously.
          """
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      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2051
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          > The process and length of time it takes for either option are practically the same.\n
          \n
          Sure, but you’re arguing for like instant speed camera abolishment or destruction here, aye?\n
          \n
          > Not to mention a traffic island costs like £3k while a camera costs £85k (guess why they pick the camera despite the price).\n
          \n
          Dunno if you got to that one already but I’ve did a reply pointing out where you’re a bit off there
          """
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      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2104
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        +body: """
          You can just say yes, you don’t have to couch this shit in a good WKUK skit.\n
          \n
          Do they do harm to the poor that are on bicycles, or walking, then?
          """
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2118}
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        +body: """
          > A negative in the short term leads to a longterm positive.\n
          \n
          I do not want to die a martyr to the fight against traffic cams.\n
          \n
          > Also I see no other method of doing this. If you go to the council and say “I want to replace this highly profitable traffic camera making hundreds of thousands per year with a traffic island that will make no money at all” the decision that any team will make internally is obvious.\n
          \n
          That kind of poses the second question as to what, in the interim, will be cut as per budget, but that’s a sidenote. I guarantee you without change far reaching enough to societally gain a new understanding of public space and roads, when the last speed cam is dismantled you’ll find all the roads still suck ass and will not be redesigned. Once you have the change so far reaching that you can reunderstand basically every road, yeah, then you don’t need the traffic cams anymore and they can be dismantled.
          """
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2322
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          > Meanwhile, in the real world we must be concerned with actually viable change.\n
          \n
          Real Zach Brannigan hours here on account of “It might get a lot of other people killed but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make”\n
          \n
          > You are inventing a fantasy reality to suit an anti car obsession. One I share, car reduction is good. However you’re being a tit now.\n
          \n
          What part of this is fantasy. Like where do you see the political potential for a nigh nationwide road redesign.
          """
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2294
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        +body: """
          > This is the weird fantasy part I was referring to. It’s like, just nonsense. It comes off like an american attitude being ported to the UK with absolutely no adaptation whatsoever to British conditions. Our conditions are nothing like america. Getting rid of cameras and getting traffic calming measures installed instead is not particularly difficult, it’s about the same. This idea of complete and widespread reinterpretation of public space? It doesn’t make sense here.\n
          \n
          I’m german tho.\n
          \n
          > By American standards it would be considered idyllic.\n
          \n
          As such, I do not believe american standards as per roads are anything to go by\n
          \n
          > Parts of the road already have traffic calming measures.\n
          \n
          That’s not really gonna stop anybody from speeding down the remaining lane(s) because they’re still very wide. It’s good for pedestrians, probably, don’t get me wrong, doesn’t really fight the speeding problem at all.\n
          \n
          > This is very easily expanded upon with the addition of chicanes, which are in wide use (hundreds of thousands) across the country.\n
          \n
          These do\n
          \n
          > There’s no “reimagining” needed here. People don’t need to develop a new consciousness of public space.\n
          \n
          Those are very much spotwork as per slowing down cars. They work for that spot, yes. It is however absolutely not hard to accelerate a car again. This is a good idea to slow people down before a busy or a school crossing or something, the third picture especially is just going to lead to slow down / wait -&gt; mash gas pedal\n
          \n
          > We do not live in a country that is utterly obsessed with cars like america.\n
          \n
          True, but also nigh about the lowest bar to clear right after like Saudi Arabia.\n
          \n
          > There are zero political barriers to this, the only barrier is the profit/revenue barrier of the traffic camera obsessed crowd.\n
          \n
          And you accuse me of living in some fantasy reality?\n
          \n
          > In every town, in every village, in every city. Outisde every school. In every residential area. All over the country.\n
          \n
          Same, could find similar features here by looking out my old apartments window. Hell, do you one better than that, we have shit like this\n
          \n
          ![](https://hexbear.net/pictrs/image/da817aa1-0f08-452f-9f76-95587ddeb3e0.png)\n
          \n
          Sorry for the grainy pictures, didn’t wanna spend that much time on google. Now that’s a road you can’t speed on, on account of many chicanes and other built up enviroments, not just the single one and then it’s open road before and after.\n
          \n
          Doesn’t mean the rest of it isn’t incredibly car brained and hostile, and as such, transportation by foot or cycling sucks major ass.\n
          \n
          If your vision of not being carbrained is “do better than the USA”, yeah, you’re there, but that shouldn’t be the end goal
          """
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          date: 2024-01-11 17:32:35.0 +01:00
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    ]
    -id: 27607
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    -bodyTs: "'also':20 'commut':18 'endang':21 'go':10 'insan':3 'length':5 'other':22 'peopl':8 'save':12 'second':15"
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      date: 2024-01-06 13:45:17.0 +01:00
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     …2
  }
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  +body: """
    > Having been to court twice for online related stuff I will absolutely couch this shit.\n
    \n
    Fair, I meant it more on “don’t do it on my accord”\n
    \n
    > I do not see how that question is doing anything but attempting some sort of gotcha or accusation that these people\n
    \n
    Your these people just seems to have some very oddly drawn lines is the heart of it. It does include poor drivers, to whom speed cameras are a problem and not that much of a solution, it does not seem to include poor people not in a car, who profit from this. My FALGSOC doesn’t have speed cameras in it - who’s would - but it’s a long way from here to there.\n
    \n
    > deserve to be fucked over instead of have real designs that don’t result in their lives being made harder. It seems like spite to me.\n
    \n
    This is running on the assumption that I think people deserve to be fucked over for speeding, and that’s the main motivation. Sure, some of them, but that’s not the kind of distinction a speed cam could make on account of how it works. I’d very much be open to them not issuing fines but other punishments - as appropiate - to not make them so classist. Loss of driving license, if you really, really fuck up in a sports car that gets impounded or such, but I’ll concede, even that is far out from today, but just to point it out,\n
    \n
    My point here is that for every one it fucks over, it helps other people not being fucked over, because it does do something against speeding. My line of reasoning for speed cams is not that it fucks people over, it’s that it helps people. You wanna focus on the first part, I’m trying to get you to see the issue is more complex than that, at least if you include people outside of cars in your consideration. They’re not a good solution, by any means, again, I assume our optimal way of solving it is quite similar. For the meantime though, the fuck else do you do? Just abandon all traffic enforcement until all the roads get fixed? So what, 20 years of being vulnerable road users being even more endangered than now?
    """
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2118
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    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2549 …}
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    +slug: "Speed-camera-cut-down-for-second-time-in-Cornwall"
    +title: "Speed camera cut down for second time in Cornwall"
    +url: "https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj5g1elz57qo"
    +body: "It’s insane the lengths that some people will go to save a few seconds on their commute, while also endangering others."
    +type: "link"
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    +children: [
      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "I mean so what’s to be done then. I agree on “redesign pretty much every street or road” but like, until then, it’s just a great big free for all?"
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          date: 2024-01-07 11:43:26.0 +01:00
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
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        +body: """
          > The US, for instance, doesn’t have speed cameras\n
          \n
          That’s just straight up wrong.
          """
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          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
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        +body: "Speaking from germany, 33 in a 30 wouldn’t even trip the speed cams here. Earliest infraction is basically doing 6mph over on a 30mph road, which would come at 50€ fine. We apparently also have 50 times less speed cameras and it absolutely does not stop people from fucking malding over them. They have to be designed bulletproof here now and even those still get regularly blown up. None of the points you raise change anything about it, because the core issue is people are terminally car brained"
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
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        +body: "I’m not sure if you’re being serious here"
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        ]
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        -id: 289601
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:25:09.0 +01:00
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      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
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        +body: """
          > Why not?\n
          \n
          Because that’s hardly what can be considered a realistic solution. Again, not against it, but what, are you gonna close down like 90% of roads? Only some of them, if so, which ones, and how is stuff handled on the ones that remain open?
          """
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      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
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        +body: """
          > just roads that “require” speed cameras.\n
          \n
          So when’s that the case or not
          """
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2092
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        +body: "It’s a bad TL;DR but they do lay out why it’s illegal"
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          date: 2024-01-07 20:56:29.0 +01:00
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      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2351
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        +body: "What’s your usual transportation method?"
        +lang: "en"
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      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2327
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        +body: """
          > You want people to actually slow down? Redesign the road.\n
          \n
          I’ve posed this question elsewhere in this thread and: what until then? Like what do you do until a good, what, 50 - 90% of road depending on criteria, is redesigned?
          """
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      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2143
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          > Croydon council responded to FOI request stating it costs £2.5-£3.5k to install traffic islands. The cost of a speed camera installation on the other hand is £85,000 according to Bedford Council, with a £5000 annual upkeep cost.\n
          \n
          Croydon cites average cost for roughly such an action at 2,5k - 3,5k in a denial of the FOI request which means there’s pretty much no way to know how much it actually costs depending on what they calculate the average on and if you have any idea about the cost of public works that number should strike you as very, very oddly low.\n
          \n
          Wiltshire government [here](https://www.wiltshire.gov.uk/article/1281/Costs-of-highway-works) cites about 45.000k for a traffic island narrowing a road to one lane, all in all.\n
          \n
          The source you cite for the cameras, however, puts those costs for 2 cameras, so 42,500 a pop / 2500 upkeep annual, albeit with returns via fines obviously.
          """
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      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2051
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          > The process and length of time it takes for either option are practically the same.\n
          \n
          Sure, but you’re arguing for like instant speed camera abolishment or destruction here, aye?\n
          \n
          > Not to mention a traffic island costs like £3k while a camera costs £85k (guess why they pick the camera despite the price).\n
          \n
          Dunno if you got to that one already but I’ve did a reply pointing out where you’re a bit off there
          """
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      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2104
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        +body: """
          You can just say yes, you don’t have to couch this shit in a good WKUK skit.\n
          \n
          Do they do harm to the poor that are on bicycles, or walking, then?
          """
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2118}
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2229
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        +body: """
          > A negative in the short term leads to a longterm positive.\n
          \n
          I do not want to die a martyr to the fight against traffic cams.\n
          \n
          > Also I see no other method of doing this. If you go to the council and say “I want to replace this highly profitable traffic camera making hundreds of thousands per year with a traffic island that will make no money at all” the decision that any team will make internally is obvious.\n
          \n
          That kind of poses the second question as to what, in the interim, will be cut as per budget, but that’s a sidenote. I guarantee you without change far reaching enough to societally gain a new understanding of public space and roads, when the last speed cam is dismantled you’ll find all the roads still suck ass and will not be redesigned. Once you have the change so far reaching that you can reunderstand basically every road, yeah, then you don’t need the traffic cams anymore and they can be dismantled.
          """
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2322
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        +body: """
          > Meanwhile, in the real world we must be concerned with actually viable change.\n
          \n
          Real Zach Brannigan hours here on account of “It might get a lot of other people killed but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make”\n
          \n
          > You are inventing a fantasy reality to suit an anti car obsession. One I share, car reduction is good. However you’re being a tit now.\n
          \n
          What part of this is fantasy. Like where do you see the political potential for a nigh nationwide road redesign.
          """
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2294
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        +body: """
          > This is the weird fantasy part I was referring to. It’s like, just nonsense. It comes off like an american attitude being ported to the UK with absolutely no adaptation whatsoever to British conditions. Our conditions are nothing like america. Getting rid of cameras and getting traffic calming measures installed instead is not particularly difficult, it’s about the same. This idea of complete and widespread reinterpretation of public space? It doesn’t make sense here.\n
          \n
          I’m german tho.\n
          \n
          > By American standards it would be considered idyllic.\n
          \n
          As such, I do not believe american standards as per roads are anything to go by\n
          \n
          > Parts of the road already have traffic calming measures.\n
          \n
          That’s not really gonna stop anybody from speeding down the remaining lane(s) because they’re still very wide. It’s good for pedestrians, probably, don’t get me wrong, doesn’t really fight the speeding problem at all.\n
          \n
          > This is very easily expanded upon with the addition of chicanes, which are in wide use (hundreds of thousands) across the country.\n
          \n
          These do\n
          \n
          > There’s no “reimagining” needed here. People don’t need to develop a new consciousness of public space.\n
          \n
          Those are very much spotwork as per slowing down cars. They work for that spot, yes. It is however absolutely not hard to accelerate a car again. This is a good idea to slow people down before a busy or a school crossing or something, the third picture especially is just going to lead to slow down / wait -&gt; mash gas pedal\n
          \n
          > We do not live in a country that is utterly obsessed with cars like america.\n
          \n
          True, but also nigh about the lowest bar to clear right after like Saudi Arabia.\n
          \n
          > There are zero political barriers to this, the only barrier is the profit/revenue barrier of the traffic camera obsessed crowd.\n
          \n
          And you accuse me of living in some fantasy reality?\n
          \n
          > In every town, in every village, in every city. Outisde every school. In every residential area. All over the country.\n
          \n
          Same, could find similar features here by looking out my old apartments window. Hell, do you one better than that, we have shit like this\n
          \n
          ![](https://hexbear.net/pictrs/image/da817aa1-0f08-452f-9f76-95587ddeb3e0.png)\n
          \n
          Sorry for the grainy pictures, didn’t wanna spend that much time on google. Now that’s a road you can’t speed on, on account of many chicanes and other built up enviroments, not just the single one and then it’s open road before and after.\n
          \n
          Doesn’t mean the rest of it isn’t incredibly car brained and hostile, and as such, transportation by foot or cycling sucks major ass.\n
          \n
          If your vision of not being carbrained is “do better than the USA”, yeah, you’re there, but that shouldn’t be the end goal
          """
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          date: 2024-01-11 17:32:35.0 +01:00
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    ]
    -id: 27607
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    -bodyTs: "'also':20 'commut':18 'endang':21 'go':10 'insan':3 'length':5 'other':22 'peopl':8 'save':12 'second':15"
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      date: 2024-01-06 13:45:17.0 +01:00
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     …2
  }
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  +body: """
    > Having been to court twice for online related stuff I will absolutely couch this shit.\n
    \n
    Fair, I meant it more on “don’t do it on my accord”\n
    \n
    > I do not see how that question is doing anything but attempting some sort of gotcha or accusation that these people\n
    \n
    Your these people just seems to have some very oddly drawn lines is the heart of it. It does include poor drivers, to whom speed cameras are a problem and not that much of a solution, it does not seem to include poor people not in a car, who profit from this. My FALGSOC doesn’t have speed cameras in it - who’s would - but it’s a long way from here to there.\n
    \n
    > deserve to be fucked over instead of have real designs that don’t result in their lives being made harder. It seems like spite to me.\n
    \n
    This is running on the assumption that I think people deserve to be fucked over for speeding, and that’s the main motivation. Sure, some of them, but that’s not the kind of distinction a speed cam could make on account of how it works. I’d very much be open to them not issuing fines but other punishments - as appropiate - to not make them so classist. Loss of driving license, if you really, really fuck up in a sports car that gets impounded or such, but I’ll concede, even that is far out from today, but just to point it out,\n
    \n
    My point here is that for every one it fucks over, it helps other people not being fucked over, because it does do something against speeding. My line of reasoning for speed cams is not that it fucks people over, it’s that it helps people. You wanna focus on the first part, I’m trying to get you to see the issue is more complex than that, at least if you include people outside of cars in your consideration. They’re not a good solution, by any means, again, I assume our optimal way of solving it is quite similar. For the meantime though, the fuck else do you do? Just abandon all traffic enforcement until all the roads get fixed? So what, 20 years of being vulnerable road users being even more endangered than now?
    """
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2118
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    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2549 …}
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    +slug: "Speed-camera-cut-down-for-second-time-in-Cornwall"
    +title: "Speed camera cut down for second time in Cornwall"
    +url: "https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj5g1elz57qo"
    +body: "It’s insane the lengths that some people will go to save a few seconds on their commute, while also endangering others."
    +type: "link"
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    +children: [
      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "I mean so what’s to be done then. I agree on “redesign pretty much every street or road” but like, until then, it’s just a great big free for all?"
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          date: 2024-01-07 11:43:26.0 +01:00
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
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        +body: """
          > The US, for instance, doesn’t have speed cameras\n
          \n
          That’s just straight up wrong.
          """
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          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
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        +body: "Speaking from germany, 33 in a 30 wouldn’t even trip the speed cams here. Earliest infraction is basically doing 6mph over on a 30mph road, which would come at 50€ fine. We apparently also have 50 times less speed cameras and it absolutely does not stop people from fucking malding over them. They have to be designed bulletproof here now and even those still get regularly blown up. None of the points you raise change anything about it, because the core issue is people are terminally car brained"
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
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        +body: "I’m not sure if you’re being serious here"
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        ]
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        -id: 289601
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:25:09.0 +01:00
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      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
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        +body: """
          > Why not?\n
          \n
          Because that’s hardly what can be considered a realistic solution. Again, not against it, but what, are you gonna close down like 90% of roads? Only some of them, if so, which ones, and how is stuff handled on the ones that remain open?
          """
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      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
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        +body: """
          > just roads that “require” speed cameras.\n
          \n
          So when’s that the case or not
          """
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2092
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        +body: "It’s a bad TL;DR but they do lay out why it’s illegal"
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          date: 2024-01-07 20:56:29.0 +01:00
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      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2351
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        +body: "What’s your usual transportation method?"
        +lang: "en"
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      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2327
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        +body: """
          > You want people to actually slow down? Redesign the road.\n
          \n
          I’ve posed this question elsewhere in this thread and: what until then? Like what do you do until a good, what, 50 - 90% of road depending on criteria, is redesigned?
          """
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      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2143
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          > Croydon council responded to FOI request stating it costs £2.5-£3.5k to install traffic islands. The cost of a speed camera installation on the other hand is £85,000 according to Bedford Council, with a £5000 annual upkeep cost.\n
          \n
          Croydon cites average cost for roughly such an action at 2,5k - 3,5k in a denial of the FOI request which means there’s pretty much no way to know how much it actually costs depending on what they calculate the average on and if you have any idea about the cost of public works that number should strike you as very, very oddly low.\n
          \n
          Wiltshire government [here](https://www.wiltshire.gov.uk/article/1281/Costs-of-highway-works) cites about 45.000k for a traffic island narrowing a road to one lane, all in all.\n
          \n
          The source you cite for the cameras, however, puts those costs for 2 cameras, so 42,500 a pop / 2500 upkeep annual, albeit with returns via fines obviously.
          """
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      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2051
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          > The process and length of time it takes for either option are practically the same.\n
          \n
          Sure, but you’re arguing for like instant speed camera abolishment or destruction here, aye?\n
          \n
          > Not to mention a traffic island costs like £3k while a camera costs £85k (guess why they pick the camera despite the price).\n
          \n
          Dunno if you got to that one already but I’ve did a reply pointing out where you’re a bit off there
          """
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      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2104
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        +body: """
          You can just say yes, you don’t have to couch this shit in a good WKUK skit.\n
          \n
          Do they do harm to the poor that are on bicycles, or walking, then?
          """
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2118}
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2229
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        +body: """
          > A negative in the short term leads to a longterm positive.\n
          \n
          I do not want to die a martyr to the fight against traffic cams.\n
          \n
          > Also I see no other method of doing this. If you go to the council and say “I want to replace this highly profitable traffic camera making hundreds of thousands per year with a traffic island that will make no money at all” the decision that any team will make internally is obvious.\n
          \n
          That kind of poses the second question as to what, in the interim, will be cut as per budget, but that’s a sidenote. I guarantee you without change far reaching enough to societally gain a new understanding of public space and roads, when the last speed cam is dismantled you’ll find all the roads still suck ass and will not be redesigned. Once you have the change so far reaching that you can reunderstand basically every road, yeah, then you don’t need the traffic cams anymore and they can be dismantled.
          """
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2322
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        +body: """
          > Meanwhile, in the real world we must be concerned with actually viable change.\n
          \n
          Real Zach Brannigan hours here on account of “It might get a lot of other people killed but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make”\n
          \n
          > You are inventing a fantasy reality to suit an anti car obsession. One I share, car reduction is good. However you’re being a tit now.\n
          \n
          What part of this is fantasy. Like where do you see the political potential for a nigh nationwide road redesign.
          """
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2294
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        +body: """
          > This is the weird fantasy part I was referring to. It’s like, just nonsense. It comes off like an american attitude being ported to the UK with absolutely no adaptation whatsoever to British conditions. Our conditions are nothing like america. Getting rid of cameras and getting traffic calming measures installed instead is not particularly difficult, it’s about the same. This idea of complete and widespread reinterpretation of public space? It doesn’t make sense here.\n
          \n
          I’m german tho.\n
          \n
          > By American standards it would be considered idyllic.\n
          \n
          As such, I do not believe american standards as per roads are anything to go by\n
          \n
          > Parts of the road already have traffic calming measures.\n
          \n
          That’s not really gonna stop anybody from speeding down the remaining lane(s) because they’re still very wide. It’s good for pedestrians, probably, don’t get me wrong, doesn’t really fight the speeding problem at all.\n
          \n
          > This is very easily expanded upon with the addition of chicanes, which are in wide use (hundreds of thousands) across the country.\n
          \n
          These do\n
          \n
          > There’s no “reimagining” needed here. People don’t need to develop a new consciousness of public space.\n
          \n
          Those are very much spotwork as per slowing down cars. They work for that spot, yes. It is however absolutely not hard to accelerate a car again. This is a good idea to slow people down before a busy or a school crossing or something, the third picture especially is just going to lead to slow down / wait -&gt; mash gas pedal\n
          \n
          > We do not live in a country that is utterly obsessed with cars like america.\n
          \n
          True, but also nigh about the lowest bar to clear right after like Saudi Arabia.\n
          \n
          > There are zero political barriers to this, the only barrier is the profit/revenue barrier of the traffic camera obsessed crowd.\n
          \n
          And you accuse me of living in some fantasy reality?\n
          \n
          > In every town, in every village, in every city. Outisde every school. In every residential area. All over the country.\n
          \n
          Same, could find similar features here by looking out my old apartments window. Hell, do you one better than that, we have shit like this\n
          \n
          ![](https://hexbear.net/pictrs/image/da817aa1-0f08-452f-9f76-95587ddeb3e0.png)\n
          \n
          Sorry for the grainy pictures, didn’t wanna spend that much time on google. Now that’s a road you can’t speed on, on account of many chicanes and other built up enviroments, not just the single one and then it’s open road before and after.\n
          \n
          Doesn’t mean the rest of it isn’t incredibly car brained and hostile, and as such, transportation by foot or cycling sucks major ass.\n
          \n
          If your vision of not being carbrained is “do better than the USA”, yeah, you’re there, but that shouldn’t be the end goal
          """
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    ]
    -id: 27607
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      date: 2024-01-06 13:45:17.0 +01:00
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     …2
  }
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  +body: """
    > Having been to court twice for online related stuff I will absolutely couch this shit.\n
    \n
    Fair, I meant it more on “don’t do it on my accord”\n
    \n
    > I do not see how that question is doing anything but attempting some sort of gotcha or accusation that these people\n
    \n
    Your these people just seems to have some very oddly drawn lines is the heart of it. It does include poor drivers, to whom speed cameras are a problem and not that much of a solution, it does not seem to include poor people not in a car, who profit from this. My FALGSOC doesn’t have speed cameras in it - who’s would - but it’s a long way from here to there.\n
    \n
    > deserve to be fucked over instead of have real designs that don’t result in their lives being made harder. It seems like spite to me.\n
    \n
    This is running on the assumption that I think people deserve to be fucked over for speeding, and that’s the main motivation. Sure, some of them, but that’s not the kind of distinction a speed cam could make on account of how it works. I’d very much be open to them not issuing fines but other punishments - as appropiate - to not make them so classist. Loss of driving license, if you really, really fuck up in a sports car that gets impounded or such, but I’ll concede, even that is far out from today, but just to point it out,\n
    \n
    My point here is that for every one it fucks over, it helps other people not being fucked over, because it does do something against speeding. My line of reasoning for speed cams is not that it fucks people over, it’s that it helps people. You wanna focus on the first part, I’m trying to get you to see the issue is more complex than that, at least if you include people outside of cars in your consideration. They’re not a good solution, by any means, again, I assume our optimal way of solving it is quite similar. For the meantime though, the fuck else do you do? Just abandon all traffic enforcement until all the roads get fixed? So what, 20 years of being vulnerable road users being even more endangered than now?
    """
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2229
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    +slug: "Speed-camera-cut-down-for-second-time-in-Cornwall"
    +title: "Speed camera cut down for second time in Cornwall"
    +url: "https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj5g1elz57qo"
    +body: "It’s insane the lengths that some people will go to save a few seconds on their commute, while also endangering others."
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    +children: [
      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
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        +body: "I mean so what’s to be done then. I agree on “redesign pretty much every street or road” but like, until then, it’s just a great big free for all?"
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          date: 2024-01-07 11:43:26.0 +01:00
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
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        +body: """
          > The US, for instance, doesn’t have speed cameras\n
          \n
          That’s just straight up wrong.
          """
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
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        +body: "Speaking from germany, 33 in a 30 wouldn’t even trip the speed cams here. Earliest infraction is basically doing 6mph over on a 30mph road, which would come at 50€ fine. We apparently also have 50 times less speed cameras and it absolutely does not stop people from fucking malding over them. They have to be designed bulletproof here now and even those still get regularly blown up. None of the points you raise change anything about it, because the core issue is people are terminally car brained"
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
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        +body: "I’m not sure if you’re being serious here"
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      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
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        +body: """
          > Why not?\n
          \n
          Because that’s hardly what can be considered a realistic solution. Again, not against it, but what, are you gonna close down like 90% of roads? Only some of them, if so, which ones, and how is stuff handled on the ones that remain open?
          """
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      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
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        +body: """
          > just roads that “require” speed cameras.\n
          \n
          So when’s that the case or not
          """
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2092
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        +body: "It’s a bad TL;DR but they do lay out why it’s illegal"
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          date: 2024-01-07 20:56:29.0 +01:00
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        +body: "What’s your usual transportation method?"
        +lang: "en"
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        +body: """
          > You want people to actually slow down? Redesign the road.\n
          \n
          I’ve posed this question elsewhere in this thread and: what until then? Like what do you do until a good, what, 50 - 90% of road depending on criteria, is redesigned?
          """
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          > Croydon council responded to FOI request stating it costs £2.5-£3.5k to install traffic islands. The cost of a speed camera installation on the other hand is £85,000 according to Bedford Council, with a £5000 annual upkeep cost.\n
          \n
          Croydon cites average cost for roughly such an action at 2,5k - 3,5k in a denial of the FOI request which means there’s pretty much no way to know how much it actually costs depending on what they calculate the average on and if you have any idea about the cost of public works that number should strike you as very, very oddly low.\n
          \n
          Wiltshire government [here](https://www.wiltshire.gov.uk/article/1281/Costs-of-highway-works) cites about 45.000k for a traffic island narrowing a road to one lane, all in all.\n
          \n
          The source you cite for the cameras, however, puts those costs for 2 cameras, so 42,500 a pop / 2500 upkeep annual, albeit with returns via fines obviously.
          """
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          > The process and length of time it takes for either option are practically the same.\n
          \n
          Sure, but you’re arguing for like instant speed camera abolishment or destruction here, aye?\n
          \n
          > Not to mention a traffic island costs like £3k while a camera costs £85k (guess why they pick the camera despite the price).\n
          \n
          Dunno if you got to that one already but I’ve did a reply pointing out where you’re a bit off there
          """
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        +body: """
          You can just say yes, you don’t have to couch this shit in a good WKUK skit.\n
          \n
          Do they do harm to the poor that are on bicycles, or walking, then?
          """
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2118
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        +body: """
          > Having been to court twice for online related stuff I will absolutely couch this shit.\n
          \n
          Fair, I meant it more on “don’t do it on my accord”\n
          \n
          > I do not see how that question is doing anything but attempting some sort of gotcha or accusation that these people\n
          \n
          Your these people just seems to have some very oddly drawn lines is the heart of it. It does include poor drivers, to whom speed cameras are a problem and not that much of a solution, it does not seem to include poor people not in a car, who profit from this. My FALGSOC doesn’t have speed cameras in it - who’s would - but it’s a long way from here to there.\n
          \n
          > deserve to be fucked over instead of have real designs that don’t result in their lives being made harder. It seems like spite to me.\n
          \n
          This is running on the assumption that I think people deserve to be fucked over for speeding, and that’s the main motivation. Sure, some of them, but that’s not the kind of distinction a speed cam could make on account of how it works. I’d very much be open to them not issuing fines but other punishments - as appropiate - to not make them so classist. Loss of driving license, if you really, really fuck up in a sports car that gets impounded or such, but I’ll concede, even that is far out from today, but just to point it out,\n
          \n
          My point here is that for every one it fucks over, it helps other people not being fucked over, because it does do something against speeding. My line of reasoning for speed cams is not that it fucks people over, it’s that it helps people. You wanna focus on the first part, I’m trying to get you to see the issue is more complex than that, at least if you include people outside of cars in your consideration. They’re not a good solution, by any means, again, I assume our optimal way of solving it is quite similar. For the meantime though, the fuck else do you do? Just abandon all traffic enforcement until all the roads get fixed? So what, 20 years of being vulnerable road users being even more endangered than now?
          """
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2229}
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          > Meanwhile, in the real world we must be concerned with actually viable change.\n
          \n
          Real Zach Brannigan hours here on account of “It might get a lot of other people killed but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make”\n
          \n
          > You are inventing a fantasy reality to suit an anti car obsession. One I share, car reduction is good. However you’re being a tit now.\n
          \n
          What part of this is fantasy. Like where do you see the political potential for a nigh nationwide road redesign.
          """
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2294
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        +body: """
          > This is the weird fantasy part I was referring to. It’s like, just nonsense. It comes off like an american attitude being ported to the UK with absolutely no adaptation whatsoever to British conditions. Our conditions are nothing like america. Getting rid of cameras and getting traffic calming measures installed instead is not particularly difficult, it’s about the same. This idea of complete and widespread reinterpretation of public space? It doesn’t make sense here.\n
          \n
          I’m german tho.\n
          \n
          > By American standards it would be considered idyllic.\n
          \n
          As such, I do not believe american standards as per roads are anything to go by\n
          \n
          > Parts of the road already have traffic calming measures.\n
          \n
          That’s not really gonna stop anybody from speeding down the remaining lane(s) because they’re still very wide. It’s good for pedestrians, probably, don’t get me wrong, doesn’t really fight the speeding problem at all.\n
          \n
          > This is very easily expanded upon with the addition of chicanes, which are in wide use (hundreds of thousands) across the country.\n
          \n
          These do\n
          \n
          > There’s no “reimagining” needed here. People don’t need to develop a new consciousness of public space.\n
          \n
          Those are very much spotwork as per slowing down cars. They work for that spot, yes. It is however absolutely not hard to accelerate a car again. This is a good idea to slow people down before a busy or a school crossing or something, the third picture especially is just going to lead to slow down / wait -&gt; mash gas pedal\n
          \n
          > We do not live in a country that is utterly obsessed with cars like america.\n
          \n
          True, but also nigh about the lowest bar to clear right after like Saudi Arabia.\n
          \n
          > There are zero political barriers to this, the only barrier is the profit/revenue barrier of the traffic camera obsessed crowd.\n
          \n
          And you accuse me of living in some fantasy reality?\n
          \n
          > In every town, in every village, in every city. Outisde every school. In every residential area. All over the country.\n
          \n
          Same, could find similar features here by looking out my old apartments window. Hell, do you one better than that, we have shit like this\n
          \n
          ![](https://hexbear.net/pictrs/image/da817aa1-0f08-452f-9f76-95587ddeb3e0.png)\n
          \n
          Sorry for the grainy pictures, didn’t wanna spend that much time on google. Now that’s a road you can’t speed on, on account of many chicanes and other built up enviroments, not just the single one and then it’s open road before and after.\n
          \n
          Doesn’t mean the rest of it isn’t incredibly car brained and hostile, and as such, transportation by foot or cycling sucks major ass.\n
          \n
          If your vision of not being carbrained is “do better than the USA”, yeah, you’re there, but that shouldn’t be the end goal
          """
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    ]
    -id: 27607
    -titleTs: "'camera':2 'cornwal':9 'cut':3 'second':6 'speed':1 'time':7"
    -bodyTs: "'also':20 'commut':18 'endang':21 'go':10 'insan':3 'length':5 'other':22 'peopl':8 'save':12 'second':15"
    +cross: false
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      date: 2024-01-06 13:45:17.0 +01:00
    }
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     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2228 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2333 …}
  +body: """
    > A negative in the short term leads to a longterm positive.\n
    \n
    I do not want to die a martyr to the fight against traffic cams.\n
    \n
    > Also I see no other method of doing this. If you go to the council and say “I want to replace this highly profitable traffic camera making hundreds of thousands per year with a traffic island that will make no money at all” the decision that any team will make internally is obvious.\n
    \n
    That kind of poses the second question as to what, in the interim, will be cut as per budget, but that’s a sidenote. I guarantee you without change far reaching enough to societally gain a new understanding of public space and roads, when the last speed cam is dismantled you’ll find all the roads still suck ass and will not be redesigned. Once you have the change so far reaching that you can reunderstand basically every road, yeah, then you don’t need the traffic cams anymore and they can be dismantled.
    """
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2229
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2549 …}
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    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2694 …}
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    +slug: "Speed-camera-cut-down-for-second-time-in-Cornwall"
    +title: "Speed camera cut down for second time in Cornwall"
    +url: "https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj5g1elz57qo"
    +body: "It’s insane the lengths that some people will go to save a few seconds on their commute, while also endangering others."
    +type: "link"
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    +children: [
      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
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        +body: "I mean so what’s to be done then. I agree on “redesign pretty much every street or road” but like, until then, it’s just a great big free for all?"
        +lang: "en"
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
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        +body: """
          > The US, for instance, doesn’t have speed cameras\n
          \n
          That’s just straight up wrong.
          """
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
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        +body: "Speaking from germany, 33 in a 30 wouldn’t even trip the speed cams here. Earliest infraction is basically doing 6mph over on a 30mph road, which would come at 50€ fine. We apparently also have 50 times less speed cameras and it absolutely does not stop people from fucking malding over them. They have to be designed bulletproof here now and even those still get regularly blown up. None of the points you raise change anything about it, because the core issue is people are terminally car brained"
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
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        +body: "I’m not sure if you’re being serious here"
        +lang: "en"
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        -id: 289601
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:25:09.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 289601
      }
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
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        +body: """
          > Why not?\n
          \n
          Because that’s hardly what can be considered a realistic solution. Again, not against it, but what, are you gonna close down like 90% of roads? Only some of them, if so, which ones, and how is stuff handled on the ones that remain open?
          """
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          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
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      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
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        +body: """
          > just roads that “require” speed cameras.\n
          \n
          So when’s that the case or not
          """
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2092
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        +body: "It’s a bad TL;DR but they do lay out why it’s illegal"
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      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2351
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        +body: "What’s your usual transportation method?"
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          date: 2024-01-08 17:03:55.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 291985
      }
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        +body: """
          > You want people to actually slow down? Redesign the road.\n
          \n
          I’ve posed this question elsewhere in this thread and: what until then? Like what do you do until a good, what, 50 - 90% of road depending on criteria, is redesigned?
          """
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          > Croydon council responded to FOI request stating it costs £2.5-£3.5k to install traffic islands. The cost of a speed camera installation on the other hand is £85,000 according to Bedford Council, with a £5000 annual upkeep cost.\n
          \n
          Croydon cites average cost for roughly such an action at 2,5k - 3,5k in a denial of the FOI request which means there’s pretty much no way to know how much it actually costs depending on what they calculate the average on and if you have any idea about the cost of public works that number should strike you as very, very oddly low.\n
          \n
          Wiltshire government [here](https://www.wiltshire.gov.uk/article/1281/Costs-of-highway-works) cites about 45.000k for a traffic island narrowing a road to one lane, all in all.\n
          \n
          The source you cite for the cameras, however, puts those costs for 2 cameras, so 42,500 a pop / 2500 upkeep annual, albeit with returns via fines obviously.
          """
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          > The process and length of time it takes for either option are practically the same.\n
          \n
          Sure, but you’re arguing for like instant speed camera abolishment or destruction here, aye?\n
          \n
          > Not to mention a traffic island costs like £3k while a camera costs £85k (guess why they pick the camera despite the price).\n
          \n
          Dunno if you got to that one already but I’ve did a reply pointing out where you’re a bit off there
          """
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          You can just say yes, you don’t have to couch this shit in a good WKUK skit.\n
          \n
          Do they do harm to the poor that are on bicycles, or walking, then?
          """
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2118
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        +body: """
          > Having been to court twice for online related stuff I will absolutely couch this shit.\n
          \n
          Fair, I meant it more on “don’t do it on my accord”\n
          \n
          > I do not see how that question is doing anything but attempting some sort of gotcha or accusation that these people\n
          \n
          Your these people just seems to have some very oddly drawn lines is the heart of it. It does include poor drivers, to whom speed cameras are a problem and not that much of a solution, it does not seem to include poor people not in a car, who profit from this. My FALGSOC doesn’t have speed cameras in it - who’s would - but it’s a long way from here to there.\n
          \n
          > deserve to be fucked over instead of have real designs that don’t result in their lives being made harder. It seems like spite to me.\n
          \n
          This is running on the assumption that I think people deserve to be fucked over for speeding, and that’s the main motivation. Sure, some of them, but that’s not the kind of distinction a speed cam could make on account of how it works. I’d very much be open to them not issuing fines but other punishments - as appropiate - to not make them so classist. Loss of driving license, if you really, really fuck up in a sports car that gets impounded or such, but I’ll concede, even that is far out from today, but just to point it out,\n
          \n
          My point here is that for every one it fucks over, it helps other people not being fucked over, because it does do something against speeding. My line of reasoning for speed cams is not that it fucks people over, it’s that it helps people. You wanna focus on the first part, I’m trying to get you to see the issue is more complex than that, at least if you include people outside of cars in your consideration. They’re not a good solution, by any means, again, I assume our optimal way of solving it is quite similar. For the meantime though, the fuck else do you do? Just abandon all traffic enforcement until all the roads get fixed? So what, 20 years of being vulnerable road users being even more endangered than now?
          """
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2229}
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          > Meanwhile, in the real world we must be concerned with actually viable change.\n
          \n
          Real Zach Brannigan hours here on account of “It might get a lot of other people killed but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make”\n
          \n
          > You are inventing a fantasy reality to suit an anti car obsession. One I share, car reduction is good. However you’re being a tit now.\n
          \n
          What part of this is fantasy. Like where do you see the political potential for a nigh nationwide road redesign.
          """
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2294
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          > This is the weird fantasy part I was referring to. It’s like, just nonsense. It comes off like an american attitude being ported to the UK with absolutely no adaptation whatsoever to British conditions. Our conditions are nothing like america. Getting rid of cameras and getting traffic calming measures installed instead is not particularly difficult, it’s about the same. This idea of complete and widespread reinterpretation of public space? It doesn’t make sense here.\n
          \n
          I’m german tho.\n
          \n
          > By American standards it would be considered idyllic.\n
          \n
          As such, I do not believe american standards as per roads are anything to go by\n
          \n
          > Parts of the road already have traffic calming measures.\n
          \n
          That’s not really gonna stop anybody from speeding down the remaining lane(s) because they’re still very wide. It’s good for pedestrians, probably, don’t get me wrong, doesn’t really fight the speeding problem at all.\n
          \n
          > This is very easily expanded upon with the addition of chicanes, which are in wide use (hundreds of thousands) across the country.\n
          \n
          These do\n
          \n
          > There’s no “reimagining” needed here. People don’t need to develop a new consciousness of public space.\n
          \n
          Those are very much spotwork as per slowing down cars. They work for that spot, yes. It is however absolutely not hard to accelerate a car again. This is a good idea to slow people down before a busy or a school crossing or something, the third picture especially is just going to lead to slow down / wait -&gt; mash gas pedal\n
          \n
          > We do not live in a country that is utterly obsessed with cars like america.\n
          \n
          True, but also nigh about the lowest bar to clear right after like Saudi Arabia.\n
          \n
          > There are zero political barriers to this, the only barrier is the profit/revenue barrier of the traffic camera obsessed crowd.\n
          \n
          And you accuse me of living in some fantasy reality?\n
          \n
          > In every town, in every village, in every city. Outisde every school. In every residential area. All over the country.\n
          \n
          Same, could find similar features here by looking out my old apartments window. Hell, do you one better than that, we have shit like this\n
          \n
          ![](https://hexbear.net/pictrs/image/da817aa1-0f08-452f-9f76-95587ddeb3e0.png)\n
          \n
          Sorry for the grainy pictures, didn’t wanna spend that much time on google. Now that’s a road you can’t speed on, on account of many chicanes and other built up enviroments, not just the single one and then it’s open road before and after.\n
          \n
          Doesn’t mean the rest of it isn’t incredibly car brained and hostile, and as such, transportation by foot or cycling sucks major ass.\n
          \n
          If your vision of not being carbrained is “do better than the USA”, yeah, you’re there, but that shouldn’t be the end goal
          """
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    ]
    -id: 27607
    -titleTs: "'camera':2 'cornwal':9 'cut':3 'second':6 'speed':1 'time':7"
    -bodyTs: "'also':20 'commut':18 'endang':21 'go':10 'insan':3 'length':5 'other':22 'peopl':8 'save':12 'second':15"
    +cross: false
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      date: 2024-01-06 13:45:17.0 +01:00
    }
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     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2228 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2333 …}
  +body: """
    > A negative in the short term leads to a longterm positive.\n
    \n
    I do not want to die a martyr to the fight against traffic cams.\n
    \n
    > Also I see no other method of doing this. If you go to the council and say “I want to replace this highly profitable traffic camera making hundreds of thousands per year with a traffic island that will make no money at all” the decision that any team will make internally is obvious.\n
    \n
    That kind of poses the second question as to what, in the interim, will be cut as per budget, but that’s a sidenote. I guarantee you without change far reaching enough to societally gain a new understanding of public space and roads, when the last speed cam is dismantled you’ll find all the roads still suck ass and will not be redesigned. Once you have the change so far reaching that you can reunderstand basically every road, yeah, then you don’t need the traffic cams anymore and they can be dismantled.
    """
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2229
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2549 …}
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    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2694 …}
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    +slug: "Speed-camera-cut-down-for-second-time-in-Cornwall"
    +title: "Speed camera cut down for second time in Cornwall"
    +url: "https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj5g1elz57qo"
    +body: "It’s insane the lengths that some people will go to save a few seconds on their commute, while also endangering others."
    +type: "link"
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    +children: [
      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
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        +body: "I mean so what’s to be done then. I agree on “redesign pretty much every street or road” but like, until then, it’s just a great big free for all?"
        +lang: "en"
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
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        +body: """
          > The US, for instance, doesn’t have speed cameras\n
          \n
          That’s just straight up wrong.
          """
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
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        +body: "Speaking from germany, 33 in a 30 wouldn’t even trip the speed cams here. Earliest infraction is basically doing 6mph over on a 30mph road, which would come at 50€ fine. We apparently also have 50 times less speed cameras and it absolutely does not stop people from fucking malding over them. They have to be designed bulletproof here now and even those still get regularly blown up. None of the points you raise change anything about it, because the core issue is people are terminally car brained"
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
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        +body: "I’m not sure if you’re being serious here"
        +lang: "en"
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        -id: 289601
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:25:09.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 289601
      }
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
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        +body: """
          > Why not?\n
          \n
          Because that’s hardly what can be considered a realistic solution. Again, not against it, but what, are you gonna close down like 90% of roads? Only some of them, if so, which ones, and how is stuff handled on the ones that remain open?
          """
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          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
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      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
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        +body: """
          > just roads that “require” speed cameras.\n
          \n
          So when’s that the case or not
          """
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2092
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        +body: "It’s a bad TL;DR but they do lay out why it’s illegal"
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      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2351
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        +body: "What’s your usual transportation method?"
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          date: 2024-01-08 17:03:55.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 291985
      }
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        +body: """
          > You want people to actually slow down? Redesign the road.\n
          \n
          I’ve posed this question elsewhere in this thread and: what until then? Like what do you do until a good, what, 50 - 90% of road depending on criteria, is redesigned?
          """
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          > Croydon council responded to FOI request stating it costs £2.5-£3.5k to install traffic islands. The cost of a speed camera installation on the other hand is £85,000 according to Bedford Council, with a £5000 annual upkeep cost.\n
          \n
          Croydon cites average cost for roughly such an action at 2,5k - 3,5k in a denial of the FOI request which means there’s pretty much no way to know how much it actually costs depending on what they calculate the average on and if you have any idea about the cost of public works that number should strike you as very, very oddly low.\n
          \n
          Wiltshire government [here](https://www.wiltshire.gov.uk/article/1281/Costs-of-highway-works) cites about 45.000k for a traffic island narrowing a road to one lane, all in all.\n
          \n
          The source you cite for the cameras, however, puts those costs for 2 cameras, so 42,500 a pop / 2500 upkeep annual, albeit with returns via fines obviously.
          """
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          > The process and length of time it takes for either option are practically the same.\n
          \n
          Sure, but you’re arguing for like instant speed camera abolishment or destruction here, aye?\n
          \n
          > Not to mention a traffic island costs like £3k while a camera costs £85k (guess why they pick the camera despite the price).\n
          \n
          Dunno if you got to that one already but I’ve did a reply pointing out where you’re a bit off there
          """
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          You can just say yes, you don’t have to couch this shit in a good WKUK skit.\n
          \n
          Do they do harm to the poor that are on bicycles, or walking, then?
          """
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2118
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        +body: """
          > Having been to court twice for online related stuff I will absolutely couch this shit.\n
          \n
          Fair, I meant it more on “don’t do it on my accord”\n
          \n
          > I do not see how that question is doing anything but attempting some sort of gotcha or accusation that these people\n
          \n
          Your these people just seems to have some very oddly drawn lines is the heart of it. It does include poor drivers, to whom speed cameras are a problem and not that much of a solution, it does not seem to include poor people not in a car, who profit from this. My FALGSOC doesn’t have speed cameras in it - who’s would - but it’s a long way from here to there.\n
          \n
          > deserve to be fucked over instead of have real designs that don’t result in their lives being made harder. It seems like spite to me.\n
          \n
          This is running on the assumption that I think people deserve to be fucked over for speeding, and that’s the main motivation. Sure, some of them, but that’s not the kind of distinction a speed cam could make on account of how it works. I’d very much be open to them not issuing fines but other punishments - as appropiate - to not make them so classist. Loss of driving license, if you really, really fuck up in a sports car that gets impounded or such, but I’ll concede, even that is far out from today, but just to point it out,\n
          \n
          My point here is that for every one it fucks over, it helps other people not being fucked over, because it does do something against speeding. My line of reasoning for speed cams is not that it fucks people over, it’s that it helps people. You wanna focus on the first part, I’m trying to get you to see the issue is more complex than that, at least if you include people outside of cars in your consideration. They’re not a good solution, by any means, again, I assume our optimal way of solving it is quite similar. For the meantime though, the fuck else do you do? Just abandon all traffic enforcement until all the roads get fixed? So what, 20 years of being vulnerable road users being even more endangered than now?
          """
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2229}
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          > Meanwhile, in the real world we must be concerned with actually viable change.\n
          \n
          Real Zach Brannigan hours here on account of “It might get a lot of other people killed but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make”\n
          \n
          > You are inventing a fantasy reality to suit an anti car obsession. One I share, car reduction is good. However you’re being a tit now.\n
          \n
          What part of this is fantasy. Like where do you see the political potential for a nigh nationwide road redesign.
          """
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2294
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          > This is the weird fantasy part I was referring to. It’s like, just nonsense. It comes off like an american attitude being ported to the UK with absolutely no adaptation whatsoever to British conditions. Our conditions are nothing like america. Getting rid of cameras and getting traffic calming measures installed instead is not particularly difficult, it’s about the same. This idea of complete and widespread reinterpretation of public space? It doesn’t make sense here.\n
          \n
          I’m german tho.\n
          \n
          > By American standards it would be considered idyllic.\n
          \n
          As such, I do not believe american standards as per roads are anything to go by\n
          \n
          > Parts of the road already have traffic calming measures.\n
          \n
          That’s not really gonna stop anybody from speeding down the remaining lane(s) because they’re still very wide. It’s good for pedestrians, probably, don’t get me wrong, doesn’t really fight the speeding problem at all.\n
          \n
          > This is very easily expanded upon with the addition of chicanes, which are in wide use (hundreds of thousands) across the country.\n
          \n
          These do\n
          \n
          > There’s no “reimagining” needed here. People don’t need to develop a new consciousness of public space.\n
          \n
          Those are very much spotwork as per slowing down cars. They work for that spot, yes. It is however absolutely not hard to accelerate a car again. This is a good idea to slow people down before a busy or a school crossing or something, the third picture especially is just going to lead to slow down / wait -&gt; mash gas pedal\n
          \n
          > We do not live in a country that is utterly obsessed with cars like america.\n
          \n
          True, but also nigh about the lowest bar to clear right after like Saudi Arabia.\n
          \n
          > There are zero political barriers to this, the only barrier is the profit/revenue barrier of the traffic camera obsessed crowd.\n
          \n
          And you accuse me of living in some fantasy reality?\n
          \n
          > In every town, in every village, in every city. Outisde every school. In every residential area. All over the country.\n
          \n
          Same, could find similar features here by looking out my old apartments window. Hell, do you one better than that, we have shit like this\n
          \n
          ![](https://hexbear.net/pictrs/image/da817aa1-0f08-452f-9f76-95587ddeb3e0.png)\n
          \n
          Sorry for the grainy pictures, didn’t wanna spend that much time on google. Now that’s a road you can’t speed on, on account of many chicanes and other built up enviroments, not just the single one and then it’s open road before and after.\n
          \n
          Doesn’t mean the rest of it isn’t incredibly car brained and hostile, and as such, transportation by foot or cycling sucks major ass.\n
          \n
          If your vision of not being carbrained is “do better than the USA”, yeah, you’re there, but that shouldn’t be the end goal
          """
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    ]
    -id: 27607
    -titleTs: "'camera':2 'cornwal':9 'cut':3 'second':6 'speed':1 'time':7"
    -bodyTs: "'also':20 'commut':18 'endang':21 'go':10 'insan':3 'length':5 'other':22 'peopl':8 'save':12 'second':15"
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      date: 2024-01-06 13:45:17.0 +01:00
    }
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     …2
  }
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  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2228 …}
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  +body: """
    > A negative in the short term leads to a longterm positive.\n
    \n
    I do not want to die a martyr to the fight against traffic cams.\n
    \n
    > Also I see no other method of doing this. If you go to the council and say “I want to replace this highly profitable traffic camera making hundreds of thousands per year with a traffic island that will make no money at all” the decision that any team will make internally is obvious.\n
    \n
    That kind of poses the second question as to what, in the interim, will be cut as per budget, but that’s a sidenote. I guarantee you without change far reaching enough to societally gain a new understanding of public space and roads, when the last speed cam is dismantled you’ll find all the roads still suck ass and will not be redesigned. Once you have the change so far reaching that you can reunderstand basically every road, yeah, then you don’t need the traffic cams anymore and they can be dismantled.
    """
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2322
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2549 …}
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    +slug: "Speed-camera-cut-down-for-second-time-in-Cornwall"
    +title: "Speed camera cut down for second time in Cornwall"
    +url: "https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj5g1elz57qo"
    +body: "It’s insane the lengths that some people will go to save a few seconds on their commute, while also endangering others."
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    +children: [
      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
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        +body: "I mean so what’s to be done then. I agree on “redesign pretty much every street or road” but like, until then, it’s just a great big free for all?"
        +lang: "en"
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
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        +body: """
          > The US, for instance, doesn’t have speed cameras\n
          \n
          That’s just straight up wrong.
          """
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
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        +body: "Speaking from germany, 33 in a 30 wouldn’t even trip the speed cams here. Earliest infraction is basically doing 6mph over on a 30mph road, which would come at 50€ fine. We apparently also have 50 times less speed cameras and it absolutely does not stop people from fucking malding over them. They have to be designed bulletproof here now and even those still get regularly blown up. None of the points you raise change anything about it, because the core issue is people are terminally car brained"
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
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        +body: "I’m not sure if you’re being serious here"
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:25:09.0 +01:00
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      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
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        +body: """
          > Why not?\n
          \n
          Because that’s hardly what can be considered a realistic solution. Again, not against it, but what, are you gonna close down like 90% of roads? Only some of them, if so, which ones, and how is stuff handled on the ones that remain open?
          """
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      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
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        +body: """
          > just roads that “require” speed cameras.\n
          \n
          So when’s that the case or not
          """
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2092
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        +body: "It’s a bad TL;DR but they do lay out why it’s illegal"
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        +body: "What’s your usual transportation method?"
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          date: 2024-01-08 17:03:55.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 291985
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        +body: """
          > You want people to actually slow down? Redesign the road.\n
          \n
          I’ve posed this question elsewhere in this thread and: what until then? Like what do you do until a good, what, 50 - 90% of road depending on criteria, is redesigned?
          """
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      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2143
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        +body: """
          > Croydon council responded to FOI request stating it costs £2.5-£3.5k to install traffic islands. The cost of a speed camera installation on the other hand is £85,000 according to Bedford Council, with a £5000 annual upkeep cost.\n
          \n
          Croydon cites average cost for roughly such an action at 2,5k - 3,5k in a denial of the FOI request which means there’s pretty much no way to know how much it actually costs depending on what they calculate the average on and if you have any idea about the cost of public works that number should strike you as very, very oddly low.\n
          \n
          Wiltshire government [here](https://www.wiltshire.gov.uk/article/1281/Costs-of-highway-works) cites about 45.000k for a traffic island narrowing a road to one lane, all in all.\n
          \n
          The source you cite for the cameras, however, puts those costs for 2 cameras, so 42,500 a pop / 2500 upkeep annual, albeit with returns via fines obviously.
          """
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          > The process and length of time it takes for either option are practically the same.\n
          \n
          Sure, but you’re arguing for like instant speed camera abolishment or destruction here, aye?\n
          \n
          > Not to mention a traffic island costs like £3k while a camera costs £85k (guess why they pick the camera despite the price).\n
          \n
          Dunno if you got to that one already but I’ve did a reply pointing out where you’re a bit off there
          """
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          You can just say yes, you don’t have to couch this shit in a good WKUK skit.\n
          \n
          Do they do harm to the poor that are on bicycles, or walking, then?
          """
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2118
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        +body: """
          > Having been to court twice for online related stuff I will absolutely couch this shit.\n
          \n
          Fair, I meant it more on “don’t do it on my accord”\n
          \n
          > I do not see how that question is doing anything but attempting some sort of gotcha or accusation that these people\n
          \n
          Your these people just seems to have some very oddly drawn lines is the heart of it. It does include poor drivers, to whom speed cameras are a problem and not that much of a solution, it does not seem to include poor people not in a car, who profit from this. My FALGSOC doesn’t have speed cameras in it - who’s would - but it’s a long way from here to there.\n
          \n
          > deserve to be fucked over instead of have real designs that don’t result in their lives being made harder. It seems like spite to me.\n
          \n
          This is running on the assumption that I think people deserve to be fucked over for speeding, and that’s the main motivation. Sure, some of them, but that’s not the kind of distinction a speed cam could make on account of how it works. I’d very much be open to them not issuing fines but other punishments - as appropiate - to not make them so classist. Loss of driving license, if you really, really fuck up in a sports car that gets impounded or such, but I’ll concede, even that is far out from today, but just to point it out,\n
          \n
          My point here is that for every one it fucks over, it helps other people not being fucked over, because it does do something against speeding. My line of reasoning for speed cams is not that it fucks people over, it’s that it helps people. You wanna focus on the first part, I’m trying to get you to see the issue is more complex than that, at least if you include people outside of cars in your consideration. They’re not a good solution, by any means, again, I assume our optimal way of solving it is quite similar. For the meantime though, the fuck else do you do? Just abandon all traffic enforcement until all the roads get fixed? So what, 20 years of being vulnerable road users being even more endangered than now?
          """
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          > A negative in the short term leads to a longterm positive.\n
          \n
          I do not want to die a martyr to the fight against traffic cams.\n
          \n
          > Also I see no other method of doing this. If you go to the council and say “I want to replace this highly profitable traffic camera making hundreds of thousands per year with a traffic island that will make no money at all” the decision that any team will make internally is obvious.\n
          \n
          That kind of poses the second question as to what, in the interim, will be cut as per budget, but that’s a sidenote. I guarantee you without change far reaching enough to societally gain a new understanding of public space and roads, when the last speed cam is dismantled you’ll find all the roads still suck ass and will not be redesigned. Once you have the change so far reaching that you can reunderstand basically every road, yeah, then you don’t need the traffic cams anymore and they can be dismantled.
          """
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2322}
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        +body: """
          > This is the weird fantasy part I was referring to. It’s like, just nonsense. It comes off like an american attitude being ported to the UK with absolutely no adaptation whatsoever to British conditions. Our conditions are nothing like america. Getting rid of cameras and getting traffic calming measures installed instead is not particularly difficult, it’s about the same. This idea of complete and widespread reinterpretation of public space? It doesn’t make sense here.\n
          \n
          I’m german tho.\n
          \n
          > By American standards it would be considered idyllic.\n
          \n
          As such, I do not believe american standards as per roads are anything to go by\n
          \n
          > Parts of the road already have traffic calming measures.\n
          \n
          That’s not really gonna stop anybody from speeding down the remaining lane(s) because they’re still very wide. It’s good for pedestrians, probably, don’t get me wrong, doesn’t really fight the speeding problem at all.\n
          \n
          > This is very easily expanded upon with the addition of chicanes, which are in wide use (hundreds of thousands) across the country.\n
          \n
          These do\n
          \n
          > There’s no “reimagining” needed here. People don’t need to develop a new consciousness of public space.\n
          \n
          Those are very much spotwork as per slowing down cars. They work for that spot, yes. It is however absolutely not hard to accelerate a car again. This is a good idea to slow people down before a busy or a school crossing or something, the third picture especially is just going to lead to slow down / wait -&gt; mash gas pedal\n
          \n
          > We do not live in a country that is utterly obsessed with cars like america.\n
          \n
          True, but also nigh about the lowest bar to clear right after like Saudi Arabia.\n
          \n
          > There are zero political barriers to this, the only barrier is the profit/revenue barrier of the traffic camera obsessed crowd.\n
          \n
          And you accuse me of living in some fantasy reality?\n
          \n
          > In every town, in every village, in every city. Outisde every school. In every residential area. All over the country.\n
          \n
          Same, could find similar features here by looking out my old apartments window. Hell, do you one better than that, we have shit like this\n
          \n
          ![](https://hexbear.net/pictrs/image/da817aa1-0f08-452f-9f76-95587ddeb3e0.png)\n
          \n
          Sorry for the grainy pictures, didn’t wanna spend that much time on google. Now that’s a road you can’t speed on, on account of many chicanes and other built up enviroments, not just the single one and then it’s open road before and after.\n
          \n
          Doesn’t mean the rest of it isn’t incredibly car brained and hostile, and as such, transportation by foot or cycling sucks major ass.\n
          \n
          If your vision of not being carbrained is “do better than the USA”, yeah, you’re there, but that shouldn’t be the end goal
          """
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        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2024-01-11 17:32:35.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 299279
      }
    ]
    -id: 27607
    -titleTs: "'camera':2 'cornwal':9 'cut':3 'second':6 'speed':1 'time':7"
    -bodyTs: "'also':20 'commut':18 'endang':21 'go':10 'insan':3 'length':5 'other':22 'peopl':8 'save':12 'second':15"
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1704545117 {#2598
      date: 2024-01-06 13:45:17.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2321 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2333 …}
  +body: """
    > Meanwhile, in the real world we must be concerned with actually viable change.\n
    \n
    Real Zach Brannigan hours here on account of “It might get a lot of other people killed but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make”\n
    \n
    > You are inventing a fantasy reality to suit an anti car obsession. One I share, car reduction is good. However you’re being a tit now.\n
    \n
    What part of this is fantasy. Like where do you see the political potential for a nigh nationwide road redesign.
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
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    date: 2024-01-09 21:59:05.0 +01:00
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    "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
    "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
    "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2312 …}
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    date: 2024-01-09 21:59:05.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 294286
}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2322
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2549 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2694 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2695 …}
    +slug: "Speed-camera-cut-down-for-second-time-in-Cornwall"
    +title: "Speed camera cut down for second time in Cornwall"
    +url: "https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj5g1elz57qo"
    +body: "It’s insane the lengths that some people will go to save a few seconds on their commute, while also endangering others."
    +type: "link"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: false
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    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2704 …}
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    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2712 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2714 …}
    +children: [
      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: "I mean so what’s to be done then. I agree on “redesign pretty much every street or road” but like, until then, it’s just a great big free for all?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 8
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          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
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        -id: 288370
        -bodyTs: "'agre':11 'big':29 'done':8 'everi':16 'free':30 'great':28 'like':21 'mean':2 'much':15 'pretti':14 'redesign':13 'road':19 'street':17"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2024-01-07 11:43:26.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 288370
      }
      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
        +body: """
          > The US, for instance, doesn’t have speed cameras\n
          \n
          That’s just straight up wrong.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2024-01-07 12:01:02.0 +01:00
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          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1708 …}
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        -id: 288397
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          date: 2024-01-07 12:01:02.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 288397
      }
      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2393 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
        +body: "Speaking from germany, 33 in a 30 wouldn’t even trip the speed cams here. Earliest infraction is basically doing 6mph over on a 30mph road, which would come at 50€ fine. We apparently also have 50 times less speed cameras and it absolutely does not stop people from fucking malding over them. They have to be designed bulletproof here now and even those still get regularly blown up. None of the points you raise change anything about it, because the core issue is people are terminally car brained"
        +lang: "en"
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          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
          "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Saff@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1384 …}
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        -id: 288725
        -bodyTs: "'30':7 '30mph':25 '33':4 '50':31,37 '6mph':21 'absolut':44 'also':35 'anyth':77 'appar':34 'basic':19 'blown':68 'brain':89 'bulletproof':59 'cam':14 'camera':41 'car':88 'chang':76 'come':29 'core':82 'design':58 'earliest':16 'even':10,63 'fine':32 'fuck':50 'germani':3 'get':66 'infract':17 'issu':83 'less':39 'mald':51 'none':70 'peopl':48,85 'point':73 'rais':75 'regular':67 'road':26 'speak':1 'speed':13,40 'still':65 'stop':47 'termin':87 'time':38 'trip':11 'would':28 'wouldn':8"
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          date: 2024-01-07 15:15:31.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 288725
      }
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2030 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: "I’m not sure if you’re being serious here"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 3
        +score: 0
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:25:09.0 +01:00
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2032 …}
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        -id: 289601
        -bodyTs: "'m':2 're':7 'serious':9 'sure':4"
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:25:09.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 289601
      }
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2035 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: """
          > Why not?\n
          \n
          Because that’s hardly what can be considered a realistic solution. Again, not against it, but what, are you gonna close down like 90% of roads? Only some of them, if so, which ones, and how is stuff handled on the ones that remain open?
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:42:56.0 +01:00
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2031 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2037 …}
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        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2097 …}
        -id: 289649
        -bodyTs: "'90':26 'close':23 'consid':10 'gonna':22 'handl':41 'hard':6 'like':25 'one':36,44 'open':47 'realist':12 'remain':46 'road':28 'solut':13 'stuff':40"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1704652976 {#2013
          date: 2024-01-07 19:42:56.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 289649
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2062 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: """
          > just roads that “require” speed cameras.\n
          \n
          So when’s that the case or not
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 4
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:58:47.0 +01:00
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2081 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2098 …}
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        -id: 289695
        -bodyTs: "'camera':6 'case':12 'requir':4 'road':2 'speed':5"
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:58:47.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 289695
      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2092
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2094 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
        +body: "It’s a bad TL;DR but they do lay out why it’s illegal"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
          "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2241 …}
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          date: 2024-01-07 20:56:29.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 289800
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2351
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2347 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
        +body: "What’s your usual transportation method?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
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          date: 2024-01-08 17:03:55.0 +01:00
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          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
          "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2332 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2349 …}
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        -id: 291985
        -bodyTs: "'method':6 'transport':5 'usual':4"
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          date: 2024-01-08 17:03:55.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 291985
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2327
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
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          > You want people to actually slow down? Redesign the road.\n
          \n
          I’ve posed this question elsewhere in this thread and: what until then? Like what do you do until a good, what, 50 - 90% of road depending on criteria, is redesigned?
          """
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      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2143
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        +body: """
          > Croydon council responded to FOI request stating it costs £2.5-£3.5k to install traffic islands. The cost of a speed camera installation on the other hand is £85,000 according to Bedford Council, with a £5000 annual upkeep cost.\n
          \n
          Croydon cites average cost for roughly such an action at 2,5k - 3,5k in a denial of the FOI request which means there’s pretty much no way to know how much it actually costs depending on what they calculate the average on and if you have any idea about the cost of public works that number should strike you as very, very oddly low.\n
          \n
          Wiltshire government [here](https://www.wiltshire.gov.uk/article/1281/Costs-of-highway-works) cites about 45.000k for a traffic island narrowing a road to one lane, all in all.\n
          \n
          The source you cite for the cameras, however, puts those costs for 2 cameras, so 42,500 a pop / 2500 upkeep annual, albeit with returns via fines obviously.
          """
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          > The process and length of time it takes for either option are practically the same.\n
          \n
          Sure, but you’re arguing for like instant speed camera abolishment or destruction here, aye?\n
          \n
          > Not to mention a traffic island costs like £3k while a camera costs £85k (guess why they pick the camera despite the price).\n
          \n
          Dunno if you got to that one already but I’ve did a reply pointing out where you’re a bit off there
          """
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          You can just say yes, you don’t have to couch this shit in a good WKUK skit.\n
          \n
          Do they do harm to the poor that are on bicycles, or walking, then?
          """
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2118
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        +body: """
          > Having been to court twice for online related stuff I will absolutely couch this shit.\n
          \n
          Fair, I meant it more on “don’t do it on my accord”\n
          \n
          > I do not see how that question is doing anything but attempting some sort of gotcha or accusation that these people\n
          \n
          Your these people just seems to have some very oddly drawn lines is the heart of it. It does include poor drivers, to whom speed cameras are a problem and not that much of a solution, it does not seem to include poor people not in a car, who profit from this. My FALGSOC doesn’t have speed cameras in it - who’s would - but it’s a long way from here to there.\n
          \n
          > deserve to be fucked over instead of have real designs that don’t result in their lives being made harder. It seems like spite to me.\n
          \n
          This is running on the assumption that I think people deserve to be fucked over for speeding, and that’s the main motivation. Sure, some of them, but that’s not the kind of distinction a speed cam could make on account of how it works. I’d very much be open to them not issuing fines but other punishments - as appropiate - to not make them so classist. Loss of driving license, if you really, really fuck up in a sports car that gets impounded or such, but I’ll concede, even that is far out from today, but just to point it out,\n
          \n
          My point here is that for every one it fucks over, it helps other people not being fucked over, because it does do something against speeding. My line of reasoning for speed cams is not that it fucks people over, it’s that it helps people. You wanna focus on the first part, I’m trying to get you to see the issue is more complex than that, at least if you include people outside of cars in your consideration. They’re not a good solution, by any means, again, I assume our optimal way of solving it is quite similar. For the meantime though, the fuck else do you do? Just abandon all traffic enforcement until all the roads get fixed? So what, 20 years of being vulnerable road users being even more endangered than now?
          """
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          > A negative in the short term leads to a longterm positive.\n
          \n
          I do not want to die a martyr to the fight against traffic cams.\n
          \n
          > Also I see no other method of doing this. If you go to the council and say “I want to replace this highly profitable traffic camera making hundreds of thousands per year with a traffic island that will make no money at all” the decision that any team will make internally is obvious.\n
          \n
          That kind of poses the second question as to what, in the interim, will be cut as per budget, but that’s a sidenote. I guarantee you without change far reaching enough to societally gain a new understanding of public space and roads, when the last speed cam is dismantled you’ll find all the roads still suck ass and will not be redesigned. Once you have the change so far reaching that you can reunderstand basically every road, yeah, then you don’t need the traffic cams anymore and they can be dismantled.
          """
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2322}
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        +body: """
          > This is the weird fantasy part I was referring to. It’s like, just nonsense. It comes off like an american attitude being ported to the UK with absolutely no adaptation whatsoever to British conditions. Our conditions are nothing like america. Getting rid of cameras and getting traffic calming measures installed instead is not particularly difficult, it’s about the same. This idea of complete and widespread reinterpretation of public space? It doesn’t make sense here.\n
          \n
          I’m german tho.\n
          \n
          > By American standards it would be considered idyllic.\n
          \n
          As such, I do not believe american standards as per roads are anything to go by\n
          \n
          > Parts of the road already have traffic calming measures.\n
          \n
          That’s not really gonna stop anybody from speeding down the remaining lane(s) because they’re still very wide. It’s good for pedestrians, probably, don’t get me wrong, doesn’t really fight the speeding problem at all.\n
          \n
          > This is very easily expanded upon with the addition of chicanes, which are in wide use (hundreds of thousands) across the country.\n
          \n
          These do\n
          \n
          > There’s no “reimagining” needed here. People don’t need to develop a new consciousness of public space.\n
          \n
          Those are very much spotwork as per slowing down cars. They work for that spot, yes. It is however absolutely not hard to accelerate a car again. This is a good idea to slow people down before a busy or a school crossing or something, the third picture especially is just going to lead to slow down / wait -&gt; mash gas pedal\n
          \n
          > We do not live in a country that is utterly obsessed with cars like america.\n
          \n
          True, but also nigh about the lowest bar to clear right after like Saudi Arabia.\n
          \n
          > There are zero political barriers to this, the only barrier is the profit/revenue barrier of the traffic camera obsessed crowd.\n
          \n
          And you accuse me of living in some fantasy reality?\n
          \n
          > In every town, in every village, in every city. Outisde every school. In every residential area. All over the country.\n
          \n
          Same, could find similar features here by looking out my old apartments window. Hell, do you one better than that, we have shit like this\n
          \n
          ![](https://hexbear.net/pictrs/image/da817aa1-0f08-452f-9f76-95587ddeb3e0.png)\n
          \n
          Sorry for the grainy pictures, didn’t wanna spend that much time on google. Now that’s a road you can’t speed on, on account of many chicanes and other built up enviroments, not just the single one and then it’s open road before and after.\n
          \n
          Doesn’t mean the rest of it isn’t incredibly car brained and hostile, and as such, transportation by foot or cycling sucks major ass.\n
          \n
          If your vision of not being carbrained is “do better than the USA”, yeah, you’re there, but that shouldn’t be the end goal
          """
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        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2024-01-11 17:32:35.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 299279
      }
    ]
    -id: 27607
    -titleTs: "'camera':2 'cornwal':9 'cut':3 'second':6 'speed':1 'time':7"
    -bodyTs: "'also':20 'commut':18 'endang':21 'go':10 'insan':3 'length':5 'other':22 'peopl':8 'save':12 'second':15"
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1704545117 {#2598
      date: 2024-01-06 13:45:17.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2321 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2333 …}
  +body: """
    > Meanwhile, in the real world we must be concerned with actually viable change.\n
    \n
    Real Zach Brannigan hours here on account of “It might get a lot of other people killed but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make”\n
    \n
    > You are inventing a fantasy reality to suit an anti car obsession. One I share, car reduction is good. However you’re being a tit now.\n
    \n
    What part of this is fantasy. Like where do you see the political potential for a nigh nationwide road redesign.
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
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    date: 2024-01-09 21:59:05.0 +01:00
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    "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
    "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
    "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2312 …}
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    date: 2024-01-09 21:59:05.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 294286
}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2322
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2549 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2694 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2695 …}
    +slug: "Speed-camera-cut-down-for-second-time-in-Cornwall"
    +title: "Speed camera cut down for second time in Cornwall"
    +url: "https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj5g1elz57qo"
    +body: "It’s insane the lengths that some people will go to save a few seconds on their commute, while also endangering others."
    +type: "link"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: false
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    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2704 …}
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    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2712 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2714 …}
    +children: [
      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: "I mean so what’s to be done then. I agree on “redesign pretty much every street or road” but like, until then, it’s just a great big free for all?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 8
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          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
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        -id: 288370
        -bodyTs: "'agre':11 'big':29 'done':8 'everi':16 'free':30 'great':28 'like':21 'mean':2 'much':15 'pretti':14 'redesign':13 'road':19 'street':17"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2024-01-07 11:43:26.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 288370
      }
      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
        +body: """
          > The US, for instance, doesn’t have speed cameras\n
          \n
          That’s just straight up wrong.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2024-01-07 12:01:02.0 +01:00
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          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1708 …}
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        -id: 288397
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          date: 2024-01-07 12:01:02.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 288397
      }
      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2393 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
        +body: "Speaking from germany, 33 in a 30 wouldn’t even trip the speed cams here. Earliest infraction is basically doing 6mph over on a 30mph road, which would come at 50€ fine. We apparently also have 50 times less speed cameras and it absolutely does not stop people from fucking malding over them. They have to be designed bulletproof here now and even those still get regularly blown up. None of the points you raise change anything about it, because the core issue is people are terminally car brained"
        +lang: "en"
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          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
          "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Saff@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1384 …}
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        -id: 288725
        -bodyTs: "'30':7 '30mph':25 '33':4 '50':31,37 '6mph':21 'absolut':44 'also':35 'anyth':77 'appar':34 'basic':19 'blown':68 'brain':89 'bulletproof':59 'cam':14 'camera':41 'car':88 'chang':76 'come':29 'core':82 'design':58 'earliest':16 'even':10,63 'fine':32 'fuck':50 'germani':3 'get':66 'infract':17 'issu':83 'less':39 'mald':51 'none':70 'peopl':48,85 'point':73 'rais':75 'regular':67 'road':26 'speak':1 'speed':13,40 'still':65 'stop':47 'termin':87 'time':38 'trip':11 'would':28 'wouldn':8"
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          date: 2024-01-07 15:15:31.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 288725
      }
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2030 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: "I’m not sure if you’re being serious here"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 3
        +score: 0
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:25:09.0 +01:00
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2032 …}
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        -id: 289601
        -bodyTs: "'m':2 're':7 'serious':9 'sure':4"
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:25:09.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 289601
      }
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2035 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: """
          > Why not?\n
          \n
          Because that’s hardly what can be considered a realistic solution. Again, not against it, but what, are you gonna close down like 90% of roads? Only some of them, if so, which ones, and how is stuff handled on the ones that remain open?
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:42:56.0 +01:00
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2031 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2037 …}
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        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2097 …}
        -id: 289649
        -bodyTs: "'90':26 'close':23 'consid':10 'gonna':22 'handl':41 'hard':6 'like':25 'one':36,44 'open':47 'realist':12 'remain':46 'road':28 'solut':13 'stuff':40"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1704652976 {#2013
          date: 2024-01-07 19:42:56.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 289649
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2062 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: """
          > just roads that “require” speed cameras.\n
          \n
          So when’s that the case or not
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 4
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:58:47.0 +01:00
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2081 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2098 …}
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        -id: 289695
        -bodyTs: "'camera':6 'case':12 'requir':4 'road':2 'speed':5"
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:58:47.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 289695
      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2092
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2094 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
        +body: "It’s a bad TL;DR but they do lay out why it’s illegal"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
          "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2241 …}
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          date: 2024-01-07 20:56:29.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 289800
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2351
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2347 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
        +body: "What’s your usual transportation method?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
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          date: 2024-01-08 17:03:55.0 +01:00
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          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
          "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2332 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2349 …}
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        -id: 291985
        -bodyTs: "'method':6 'transport':5 'usual':4"
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          date: 2024-01-08 17:03:55.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 291985
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2327
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
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          > You want people to actually slow down? Redesign the road.\n
          \n
          I’ve posed this question elsewhere in this thread and: what until then? Like what do you do until a good, what, 50 - 90% of road depending on criteria, is redesigned?
          """
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      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2143
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        +body: """
          > Croydon council responded to FOI request stating it costs £2.5-£3.5k to install traffic islands. The cost of a speed camera installation on the other hand is £85,000 according to Bedford Council, with a £5000 annual upkeep cost.\n
          \n
          Croydon cites average cost for roughly such an action at 2,5k - 3,5k in a denial of the FOI request which means there’s pretty much no way to know how much it actually costs depending on what they calculate the average on and if you have any idea about the cost of public works that number should strike you as very, very oddly low.\n
          \n
          Wiltshire government [here](https://www.wiltshire.gov.uk/article/1281/Costs-of-highway-works) cites about 45.000k for a traffic island narrowing a road to one lane, all in all.\n
          \n
          The source you cite for the cameras, however, puts those costs for 2 cameras, so 42,500 a pop / 2500 upkeep annual, albeit with returns via fines obviously.
          """
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          > The process and length of time it takes for either option are practically the same.\n
          \n
          Sure, but you’re arguing for like instant speed camera abolishment or destruction here, aye?\n
          \n
          > Not to mention a traffic island costs like £3k while a camera costs £85k (guess why they pick the camera despite the price).\n
          \n
          Dunno if you got to that one already but I’ve did a reply pointing out where you’re a bit off there
          """
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          You can just say yes, you don’t have to couch this shit in a good WKUK skit.\n
          \n
          Do they do harm to the poor that are on bicycles, or walking, then?
          """
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2118
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        +body: """
          > Having been to court twice for online related stuff I will absolutely couch this shit.\n
          \n
          Fair, I meant it more on “don’t do it on my accord”\n
          \n
          > I do not see how that question is doing anything but attempting some sort of gotcha or accusation that these people\n
          \n
          Your these people just seems to have some very oddly drawn lines is the heart of it. It does include poor drivers, to whom speed cameras are a problem and not that much of a solution, it does not seem to include poor people not in a car, who profit from this. My FALGSOC doesn’t have speed cameras in it - who’s would - but it’s a long way from here to there.\n
          \n
          > deserve to be fucked over instead of have real designs that don’t result in their lives being made harder. It seems like spite to me.\n
          \n
          This is running on the assumption that I think people deserve to be fucked over for speeding, and that’s the main motivation. Sure, some of them, but that’s not the kind of distinction a speed cam could make on account of how it works. I’d very much be open to them not issuing fines but other punishments - as appropiate - to not make them so classist. Loss of driving license, if you really, really fuck up in a sports car that gets impounded or such, but I’ll concede, even that is far out from today, but just to point it out,\n
          \n
          My point here is that for every one it fucks over, it helps other people not being fucked over, because it does do something against speeding. My line of reasoning for speed cams is not that it fucks people over, it’s that it helps people. You wanna focus on the first part, I’m trying to get you to see the issue is more complex than that, at least if you include people outside of cars in your consideration. They’re not a good solution, by any means, again, I assume our optimal way of solving it is quite similar. For the meantime though, the fuck else do you do? Just abandon all traffic enforcement until all the roads get fixed? So what, 20 years of being vulnerable road users being even more endangered than now?
          """
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          > A negative in the short term leads to a longterm positive.\n
          \n
          I do not want to die a martyr to the fight against traffic cams.\n
          \n
          > Also I see no other method of doing this. If you go to the council and say “I want to replace this highly profitable traffic camera making hundreds of thousands per year with a traffic island that will make no money at all” the decision that any team will make internally is obvious.\n
          \n
          That kind of poses the second question as to what, in the interim, will be cut as per budget, but that’s a sidenote. I guarantee you without change far reaching enough to societally gain a new understanding of public space and roads, when the last speed cam is dismantled you’ll find all the roads still suck ass and will not be redesigned. Once you have the change so far reaching that you can reunderstand basically every road, yeah, then you don’t need the traffic cams anymore and they can be dismantled.
          """
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2322}
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        +body: """
          > This is the weird fantasy part I was referring to. It’s like, just nonsense. It comes off like an american attitude being ported to the UK with absolutely no adaptation whatsoever to British conditions. Our conditions are nothing like america. Getting rid of cameras and getting traffic calming measures installed instead is not particularly difficult, it’s about the same. This idea of complete and widespread reinterpretation of public space? It doesn’t make sense here.\n
          \n
          I’m german tho.\n
          \n
          > By American standards it would be considered idyllic.\n
          \n
          As such, I do not believe american standards as per roads are anything to go by\n
          \n
          > Parts of the road already have traffic calming measures.\n
          \n
          That’s not really gonna stop anybody from speeding down the remaining lane(s) because they’re still very wide. It’s good for pedestrians, probably, don’t get me wrong, doesn’t really fight the speeding problem at all.\n
          \n
          > This is very easily expanded upon with the addition of chicanes, which are in wide use (hundreds of thousands) across the country.\n
          \n
          These do\n
          \n
          > There’s no “reimagining” needed here. People don’t need to develop a new consciousness of public space.\n
          \n
          Those are very much spotwork as per slowing down cars. They work for that spot, yes. It is however absolutely not hard to accelerate a car again. This is a good idea to slow people down before a busy or a school crossing or something, the third picture especially is just going to lead to slow down / wait -&gt; mash gas pedal\n
          \n
          > We do not live in a country that is utterly obsessed with cars like america.\n
          \n
          True, but also nigh about the lowest bar to clear right after like Saudi Arabia.\n
          \n
          > There are zero political barriers to this, the only barrier is the profit/revenue barrier of the traffic camera obsessed crowd.\n
          \n
          And you accuse me of living in some fantasy reality?\n
          \n
          > In every town, in every village, in every city. Outisde every school. In every residential area. All over the country.\n
          \n
          Same, could find similar features here by looking out my old apartments window. Hell, do you one better than that, we have shit like this\n
          \n
          ![](https://hexbear.net/pictrs/image/da817aa1-0f08-452f-9f76-95587ddeb3e0.png)\n
          \n
          Sorry for the grainy pictures, didn’t wanna spend that much time on google. Now that’s a road you can’t speed on, on account of many chicanes and other built up enviroments, not just the single one and then it’s open road before and after.\n
          \n
          Doesn’t mean the rest of it isn’t incredibly car brained and hostile, and as such, transportation by foot or cycling sucks major ass.\n
          \n
          If your vision of not being carbrained is “do better than the USA”, yeah, you’re there, but that shouldn’t be the end goal
          """
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          date: 2024-01-11 17:32:35.0 +01:00
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    ]
    -id: 27607
    -titleTs: "'camera':2 'cornwal':9 'cut':3 'second':6 'speed':1 'time':7"
    -bodyTs: "'also':20 'commut':18 'endang':21 'go':10 'insan':3 'length':5 'other':22 'peopl':8 'save':12 'second':15"
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      date: 2024-01-06 13:45:17.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2321 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2333 …}
  +body: """
    > Meanwhile, in the real world we must be concerned with actually viable change.\n
    \n
    Real Zach Brannigan hours here on account of “It might get a lot of other people killed but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make”\n
    \n
    > You are inventing a fantasy reality to suit an anti car obsession. One I share, car reduction is good. However you’re being a tit now.\n
    \n
    What part of this is fantasy. Like where do you see the political potential for a nigh nationwide road redesign.
    """
  +lang: "en"
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    date: 2024-01-09 21:59:05.0 +01:00
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    "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
    "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
    "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2312 …}
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    date: 2024-01-09 21:59:05.0 +01:00
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  +"title": 294286
}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2294
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2549 …}
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    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2694 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2695 …}
    +slug: "Speed-camera-cut-down-for-second-time-in-Cornwall"
    +title: "Speed camera cut down for second time in Cornwall"
    +url: "https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj5g1elz57qo"
    +body: "It’s insane the lengths that some people will go to save a few seconds on their commute, while also endangering others."
    +type: "link"
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    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2714 …}
    +children: [
      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +image: null
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: "I mean so what’s to be done then. I agree on “redesign pretty much every street or road” but like, until then, it’s just a great big free for all?"
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2024-01-07 11:43:26.0 +01:00
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
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        +body: """
          > The US, for instance, doesn’t have speed cameras\n
          \n
          That’s just straight up wrong.
          """
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
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        +body: "Speaking from germany, 33 in a 30 wouldn’t even trip the speed cams here. Earliest infraction is basically doing 6mph over on a 30mph road, which would come at 50€ fine. We apparently also have 50 times less speed cameras and it absolutely does not stop people from fucking malding over them. They have to be designed bulletproof here now and even those still get regularly blown up. None of the points you raise change anything about it, because the core issue is people are terminally car brained"
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          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
          "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Saff@lemmy.ml"
        ]
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        -bodyTs: "'30':7 '30mph':25 '33':4 '50':31,37 '6mph':21 'absolut':44 'also':35 'anyth':77 'appar':34 'basic':19 'blown':68 'brain':89 'bulletproof':59 'cam':14 'camera':41 'car':88 'chang':76 'come':29 'core':82 'design':58 'earliest':16 'even':10,63 'fine':32 'fuck':50 'germani':3 'get':66 'infract':17 'issu':83 'less':39 'mald':51 'none':70 'peopl':48,85 'point':73 'rais':75 'regular':67 'road':26 'speak':1 'speed':13,40 'still':65 'stop':47 'termin':87 'time':38 'trip':11 'would':28 'wouldn':8"
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "I’m not sure if you’re being serious here"
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
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        -id: 289601
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:25:09.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 289601
      }
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2035 …}
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        +body: """
          > Why not?\n
          \n
          Because that’s hardly what can be considered a realistic solution. Again, not against it, but what, are you gonna close down like 90% of roads? Only some of them, if so, which ones, and how is stuff handled on the ones that remain open?
          """
        +lang: "en"
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
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      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2062 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: """
          > just roads that “require” speed cameras.\n
          \n
          So when’s that the case or not
          """
        +lang: "en"
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          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
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        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2081 …}
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:58:47.0 +01:00
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2092
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        +body: "It’s a bad TL;DR but they do lay out why it’s illegal"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
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      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2351
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        +body: "What’s your usual transportation method?"
        +lang: "en"
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          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2332 …}
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        -id: 291985
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        +"title": 291985
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      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2327
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        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
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          > You want people to actually slow down? Redesign the road.\n
          \n
          I’ve posed this question elsewhere in this thread and: what until then? Like what do you do until a good, what, 50 - 90% of road depending on criteria, is redesigned?
          """
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        +body: """
          > Croydon council responded to FOI request stating it costs £2.5-£3.5k to install traffic islands. The cost of a speed camera installation on the other hand is £85,000 according to Bedford Council, with a £5000 annual upkeep cost.\n
          \n
          Croydon cites average cost for roughly such an action at 2,5k - 3,5k in a denial of the FOI request which means there’s pretty much no way to know how much it actually costs depending on what they calculate the average on and if you have any idea about the cost of public works that number should strike you as very, very oddly low.\n
          \n
          Wiltshire government [here](https://www.wiltshire.gov.uk/article/1281/Costs-of-highway-works) cites about 45.000k for a traffic island narrowing a road to one lane, all in all.\n
          \n
          The source you cite for the cameras, however, puts those costs for 2 cameras, so 42,500 a pop / 2500 upkeep annual, albeit with returns via fines obviously.
          """
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          > The process and length of time it takes for either option are practically the same.\n
          \n
          Sure, but you’re arguing for like instant speed camera abolishment or destruction here, aye?\n
          \n
          > Not to mention a traffic island costs like £3k while a camera costs £85k (guess why they pick the camera despite the price).\n
          \n
          Dunno if you got to that one already but I’ve did a reply pointing out where you’re a bit off there
          """
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          You can just say yes, you don’t have to couch this shit in a good WKUK skit.\n
          \n
          Do they do harm to the poor that are on bicycles, or walking, then?
          """
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        +body: """
          > Having been to court twice for online related stuff I will absolutely couch this shit.\n
          \n
          Fair, I meant it more on “don’t do it on my accord”\n
          \n
          > I do not see how that question is doing anything but attempting some sort of gotcha or accusation that these people\n
          \n
          Your these people just seems to have some very oddly drawn lines is the heart of it. It does include poor drivers, to whom speed cameras are a problem and not that much of a solution, it does not seem to include poor people not in a car, who profit from this. My FALGSOC doesn’t have speed cameras in it - who’s would - but it’s a long way from here to there.\n
          \n
          > deserve to be fucked over instead of have real designs that don’t result in their lives being made harder. It seems like spite to me.\n
          \n
          This is running on the assumption that I think people deserve to be fucked over for speeding, and that’s the main motivation. Sure, some of them, but that’s not the kind of distinction a speed cam could make on account of how it works. I’d very much be open to them not issuing fines but other punishments - as appropiate - to not make them so classist. Loss of driving license, if you really, really fuck up in a sports car that gets impounded or such, but I’ll concede, even that is far out from today, but just to point it out,\n
          \n
          My point here is that for every one it fucks over, it helps other people not being fucked over, because it does do something against speeding. My line of reasoning for speed cams is not that it fucks people over, it’s that it helps people. You wanna focus on the first part, I’m trying to get you to see the issue is more complex than that, at least if you include people outside of cars in your consideration. They’re not a good solution, by any means, again, I assume our optimal way of solving it is quite similar. For the meantime though, the fuck else do you do? Just abandon all traffic enforcement until all the roads get fixed? So what, 20 years of being vulnerable road users being even more endangered than now?
          """
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          > A negative in the short term leads to a longterm positive.\n
          \n
          I do not want to die a martyr to the fight against traffic cams.\n
          \n
          > Also I see no other method of doing this. If you go to the council and say “I want to replace this highly profitable traffic camera making hundreds of thousands per year with a traffic island that will make no money at all” the decision that any team will make internally is obvious.\n
          \n
          That kind of poses the second question as to what, in the interim, will be cut as per budget, but that’s a sidenote. I guarantee you without change far reaching enough to societally gain a new understanding of public space and roads, when the last speed cam is dismantled you’ll find all the roads still suck ass and will not be redesigned. Once you have the change so far reaching that you can reunderstand basically every road, yeah, then you don’t need the traffic cams anymore and they can be dismantled.
          """
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          > Meanwhile, in the real world we must be concerned with actually viable change.\n
          \n
          Real Zach Brannigan hours here on account of “It might get a lot of other people killed but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make”\n
          \n
          > You are inventing a fantasy reality to suit an anti car obsession. One I share, car reduction is good. However you’re being a tit now.\n
          \n
          What part of this is fantasy. Like where do you see the political potential for a nigh nationwide road redesign.
          """
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  +body: """
    > This is the weird fantasy part I was referring to. It’s like, just nonsense. It comes off like an american attitude being ported to the UK with absolutely no adaptation whatsoever to British conditions. Our conditions are nothing like america. Getting rid of cameras and getting traffic calming measures installed instead is not particularly difficult, it’s about the same. This idea of complete and widespread reinterpretation of public space? It doesn’t make sense here.\n
    \n
    I’m german tho.\n
    \n
    > By American standards it would be considered idyllic.\n
    \n
    As such, I do not believe american standards as per roads are anything to go by\n
    \n
    > Parts of the road already have traffic calming measures.\n
    \n
    That’s not really gonna stop anybody from speeding down the remaining lane(s) because they’re still very wide. It’s good for pedestrians, probably, don’t get me wrong, doesn’t really fight the speeding problem at all.\n
    \n
    > This is very easily expanded upon with the addition of chicanes, which are in wide use (hundreds of thousands) across the country.\n
    \n
    These do\n
    \n
    > There’s no “reimagining” needed here. People don’t need to develop a new consciousness of public space.\n
    \n
    Those are very much spotwork as per slowing down cars. They work for that spot, yes. It is however absolutely not hard to accelerate a car again. This is a good idea to slow people down before a busy or a school crossing or something, the third picture especially is just going to lead to slow down / wait -&gt; mash gas pedal\n
    \n
    > We do not live in a country that is utterly obsessed with cars like america.\n
    \n
    True, but also nigh about the lowest bar to clear right after like Saudi Arabia.\n
    \n
    > There are zero political barriers to this, the only barrier is the profit/revenue barrier of the traffic camera obsessed crowd.\n
    \n
    And you accuse me of living in some fantasy reality?\n
    \n
    > In every town, in every village, in every city. Outisde every school. In every residential area. All over the country.\n
    \n
    Same, could find similar features here by looking out my old apartments window. Hell, do you one better than that, we have shit like this\n
    \n
    ![](https://hexbear.net/pictrs/image/da817aa1-0f08-452f-9f76-95587ddeb3e0.png)\n
    \n
    Sorry for the grainy pictures, didn’t wanna spend that much time on google. Now that’s a road you can’t speed on, on account of many chicanes and other built up enviroments, not just the single one and then it’s open road before and after.\n
    \n
    Doesn’t mean the rest of it isn’t incredibly car brained and hostile, and as such, transportation by foot or cycling sucks major ass.\n
    \n
    If your vision of not being carbrained is “do better than the USA”, yeah, you’re there, but that shouldn’t be the end goal
    """
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    date: 2024-01-11 17:32:35.0 +01:00
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2294
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2549 …}
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    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2694 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2695 …}
    +slug: "Speed-camera-cut-down-for-second-time-in-Cornwall"
    +title: "Speed camera cut down for second time in Cornwall"
    +url: "https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj5g1elz57qo"
    +body: "It’s insane the lengths that some people will go to save a few seconds on their commute, while also endangering others."
    +type: "link"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: false
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      date: 2024-01-11 17:32:35.0 +01:00
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    +children: [
      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: "I mean so what’s to be done then. I agree on “redesign pretty much every street or road” but like, until then, it’s just a great big free for all?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
        ]
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        -id: 288370
        -bodyTs: "'agre':11 'big':29 'done':8 'everi':16 'free':30 'great':28 'like':21 'mean':2 'much':15 'pretti':14 'redesign':13 'road':19 'street':17"
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          date: 2024-01-07 11:43:26.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 288370
      }
      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
        +body: """
          > The US, for instance, doesn’t have speed cameras\n
          \n
          That’s just straight up wrong.
          """
        +lang: "en"
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          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
        ]
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          date: 2024-01-07 12:01:02.0 +01:00
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
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        +body: "Speaking from germany, 33 in a 30 wouldn’t even trip the speed cams here. Earliest infraction is basically doing 6mph over on a 30mph road, which would come at 50€ fine. We apparently also have 50 times less speed cameras and it absolutely does not stop people from fucking malding over them. They have to be designed bulletproof here now and even those still get regularly blown up. None of the points you raise change anything about it, because the core issue is people are terminally car brained"
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          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
          "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Saff@lemmy.ml"
        ]
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        -bodyTs: "'30':7 '30mph':25 '33':4 '50':31,37 '6mph':21 'absolut':44 'also':35 'anyth':77 'appar':34 'basic':19 'blown':68 'brain':89 'bulletproof':59 'cam':14 'camera':41 'car':88 'chang':76 'come':29 'core':82 'design':58 'earliest':16 'even':10,63 'fine':32 'fuck':50 'germani':3 'get':66 'infract':17 'issu':83 'less':39 'mald':51 'none':70 'peopl':48,85 'point':73 'rais':75 'regular':67 'road':26 'speak':1 'speed':13,40 'still':65 'stop':47 'termin':87 'time':38 'trip':11 'would':28 'wouldn':8"
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2030 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: "I’m not sure if you’re being serious here"
        +lang: "en"
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
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        -id: 289601
        -bodyTs: "'m':2 're':7 'serious':9 'sure':4"
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:25:09.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 289601
      }
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2035 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: """
          > Why not?\n
          \n
          Because that’s hardly what can be considered a realistic solution. Again, not against it, but what, are you gonna close down like 90% of roads? Only some of them, if so, which ones, and how is stuff handled on the ones that remain open?
          """
        +lang: "en"
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
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        -bodyTs: "'90':26 'close':23 'consid':10 'gonna':22 'handl':41 'hard':6 'like':25 'one':36,44 'open':47 'realist':12 'remain':46 'road':28 'solut':13 'stuff':40"
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:42:56.0 +01:00
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      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: """
          > just roads that “require” speed cameras.\n
          \n
          So when’s that the case or not
          """
        +lang: "en"
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
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        -id: 289695
        -bodyTs: "'camera':6 'case':12 'requir':4 'road':2 'speed':5"
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:58:47.0 +01:00
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2092
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "It’s a bad TL;DR but they do lay out why it’s illegal"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
          "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
        ]
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      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2351
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2347 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
        +body: "What’s your usual transportation method?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2024-01-08 17:03:55.0 +01:00
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
          "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2332 …}
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        -id: 291985
        -bodyTs: "'method':6 'transport':5 'usual':4"
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          date: 2024-01-08 17:03:55.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 291985
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      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2327
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        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2333 …}
        +body: """
          > You want people to actually slow down? Redesign the road.\n
          \n
          I’ve posed this question elsewhere in this thread and: what until then? Like what do you do until a good, what, 50 - 90% of road depending on criteria, is redesigned?
          """
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
        ]
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        -id: 291989
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        +"title": 291989
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2143
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
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        +body: """
          > Croydon council responded to FOI request stating it costs £2.5-£3.5k to install traffic islands. The cost of a speed camera installation on the other hand is £85,000 according to Bedford Council, with a £5000 annual upkeep cost.\n
          \n
          Croydon cites average cost for roughly such an action at 2,5k - 3,5k in a denial of the FOI request which means there’s pretty much no way to know how much it actually costs depending on what they calculate the average on and if you have any idea about the cost of public works that number should strike you as very, very oddly low.\n
          \n
          Wiltshire government [here](https://www.wiltshire.gov.uk/article/1281/Costs-of-highway-works) cites about 45.000k for a traffic island narrowing a road to one lane, all in all.\n
          \n
          The source you cite for the cameras, however, puts those costs for 2 cameras, so 42,500 a pop / 2500 upkeep annual, albeit with returns via fines obviously.
          """
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          > The process and length of time it takes for either option are practically the same.\n
          \n
          Sure, but you’re arguing for like instant speed camera abolishment or destruction here, aye?\n
          \n
          > Not to mention a traffic island costs like £3k while a camera costs £85k (guess why they pick the camera despite the price).\n
          \n
          Dunno if you got to that one already but I’ve did a reply pointing out where you’re a bit off there
          """
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          You can just say yes, you don’t have to couch this shit in a good WKUK skit.\n
          \n
          Do they do harm to the poor that are on bicycles, or walking, then?
          """
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          > Having been to court twice for online related stuff I will absolutely couch this shit.\n
          \n
          Fair, I meant it more on “don’t do it on my accord”\n
          \n
          > I do not see how that question is doing anything but attempting some sort of gotcha or accusation that these people\n
          \n
          Your these people just seems to have some very oddly drawn lines is the heart of it. It does include poor drivers, to whom speed cameras are a problem and not that much of a solution, it does not seem to include poor people not in a car, who profit from this. My FALGSOC doesn’t have speed cameras in it - who’s would - but it’s a long way from here to there.\n
          \n
          > deserve to be fucked over instead of have real designs that don’t result in their lives being made harder. It seems like spite to me.\n
          \n
          This is running on the assumption that I think people deserve to be fucked over for speeding, and that’s the main motivation. Sure, some of them, but that’s not the kind of distinction a speed cam could make on account of how it works. I’d very much be open to them not issuing fines but other punishments - as appropiate - to not make them so classist. Loss of driving license, if you really, really fuck up in a sports car that gets impounded or such, but I’ll concede, even that is far out from today, but just to point it out,\n
          \n
          My point here is that for every one it fucks over, it helps other people not being fucked over, because it does do something against speeding. My line of reasoning for speed cams is not that it fucks people over, it’s that it helps people. You wanna focus on the first part, I’m trying to get you to see the issue is more complex than that, at least if you include people outside of cars in your consideration. They’re not a good solution, by any means, again, I assume our optimal way of solving it is quite similar. For the meantime though, the fuck else do you do? Just abandon all traffic enforcement until all the roads get fixed? So what, 20 years of being vulnerable road users being even more endangered than now?
          """
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          > A negative in the short term leads to a longterm positive.\n
          \n
          I do not want to die a martyr to the fight against traffic cams.\n
          \n
          > Also I see no other method of doing this. If you go to the council and say “I want to replace this highly profitable traffic camera making hundreds of thousands per year with a traffic island that will make no money at all” the decision that any team will make internally is obvious.\n
          \n
          That kind of poses the second question as to what, in the interim, will be cut as per budget, but that’s a sidenote. I guarantee you without change far reaching enough to societally gain a new understanding of public space and roads, when the last speed cam is dismantled you’ll find all the roads still suck ass and will not be redesigned. Once you have the change so far reaching that you can reunderstand basically every road, yeah, then you don’t need the traffic cams anymore and they can be dismantled.
          """
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          > Meanwhile, in the real world we must be concerned with actually viable change.\n
          \n
          Real Zach Brannigan hours here on account of “It might get a lot of other people killed but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make”\n
          \n
          > You are inventing a fantasy reality to suit an anti car obsession. One I share, car reduction is good. However you’re being a tit now.\n
          \n
          What part of this is fantasy. Like where do you see the political potential for a nigh nationwide road redesign.
          """
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  +body: """
    > This is the weird fantasy part I was referring to. It’s like, just nonsense. It comes off like an american attitude being ported to the UK with absolutely no adaptation whatsoever to British conditions. Our conditions are nothing like america. Getting rid of cameras and getting traffic calming measures installed instead is not particularly difficult, it’s about the same. This idea of complete and widespread reinterpretation of public space? It doesn’t make sense here.\n
    \n
    I’m german tho.\n
    \n
    > By American standards it would be considered idyllic.\n
    \n
    As such, I do not believe american standards as per roads are anything to go by\n
    \n
    > Parts of the road already have traffic calming measures.\n
    \n
    That’s not really gonna stop anybody from speeding down the remaining lane(s) because they’re still very wide. It’s good for pedestrians, probably, don’t get me wrong, doesn’t really fight the speeding problem at all.\n
    \n
    > This is very easily expanded upon with the addition of chicanes, which are in wide use (hundreds of thousands) across the country.\n
    \n
    These do\n
    \n
    > There’s no “reimagining” needed here. People don’t need to develop a new consciousness of public space.\n
    \n
    Those are very much spotwork as per slowing down cars. They work for that spot, yes. It is however absolutely not hard to accelerate a car again. This is a good idea to slow people down before a busy or a school crossing or something, the third picture especially is just going to lead to slow down / wait -&gt; mash gas pedal\n
    \n
    > We do not live in a country that is utterly obsessed with cars like america.\n
    \n
    True, but also nigh about the lowest bar to clear right after like Saudi Arabia.\n
    \n
    > There are zero political barriers to this, the only barrier is the profit/revenue barrier of the traffic camera obsessed crowd.\n
    \n
    And you accuse me of living in some fantasy reality?\n
    \n
    > In every town, in every village, in every city. Outisde every school. In every residential area. All over the country.\n
    \n
    Same, could find similar features here by looking out my old apartments window. Hell, do you one better than that, we have shit like this\n
    \n
    ![](https://hexbear.net/pictrs/image/da817aa1-0f08-452f-9f76-95587ddeb3e0.png)\n
    \n
    Sorry for the grainy pictures, didn’t wanna spend that much time on google. Now that’s a road you can’t speed on, on account of many chicanes and other built up enviroments, not just the single one and then it’s open road before and after.\n
    \n
    Doesn’t mean the rest of it isn’t incredibly car brained and hostile, and as such, transportation by foot or cycling sucks major ass.\n
    \n
    If your vision of not being carbrained is “do better than the USA”, yeah, you’re there, but that shouldn’t be the end goal
    """
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  +ranking: 0
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    date: 2024-01-11 17:32:35.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 299279
}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2294
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2549 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2694 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2695 …}
    +slug: "Speed-camera-cut-down-for-second-time-in-Cornwall"
    +title: "Speed camera cut down for second time in Cornwall"
    +url: "https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj5g1elz57qo"
    +body: "It’s insane the lengths that some people will go to save a few seconds on their commute, while also endangering others."
    +type: "link"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: false
    +commentCount: 200
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      date: 2024-01-11 17:32:35.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
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    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2704 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2706 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2708 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2710 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2712 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2714 …}
    +children: [
      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2363
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: "I mean so what’s to be done then. I agree on “redesign pretty much every street or road” but like, until then, it’s just a great big free for all?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 8
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          date: 2024-01-07 11:43:26.0 +01:00
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
        ]
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        -id: 288370
        -bodyTs: "'agre':11 'big':29 'done':8 'everi':16 'free':30 'great':28 'like':21 'mean':2 'much':15 'pretti':14 'redesign':13 'road':19 'street':17"
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          date: 2024-01-07 11:43:26.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 288370
      }
      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1910
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1906 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
        +body: """
          > The US, for instance, doesn’t have speed cameras\n
          \n
          That’s just straight up wrong.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2024-01-07 12:01:02.0 +01:00
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1708 …}
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        -id: 288397
        -bodyTs: "'camera':9 'doesn':5 'instanc':4 'speed':8 'straight':13 'us':2 'wrong':15"
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          date: 2024-01-07 12:01:02.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 288397
      }
      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2395
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2393 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
        +body: "Speaking from germany, 33 in a 30 wouldn’t even trip the speed cams here. Earliest infraction is basically doing 6mph over on a 30mph road, which would come at 50€ fine. We apparently also have 50 times less speed cameras and it absolutely does not stop people from fucking malding over them. They have to be designed bulletproof here now and even those still get regularly blown up. None of the points you raise change anything about it, because the core issue is people are terminally car brained"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2024-01-07 15:15:31.0 +01:00
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
          "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Saff@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1384 …}
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        -id: 288725
        -bodyTs: "'30':7 '30mph':25 '33':4 '50':31,37 '6mph':21 'absolut':44 'also':35 'anyth':77 'appar':34 'basic':19 'blown':68 'brain':89 'bulletproof':59 'cam':14 'camera':41 'car':88 'chang':76 'come':29 'core':82 'design':58 'earliest':16 'even':10,63 'fine':32 'fuck':50 'germani':3 'get':66 'infract':17 'issu':83 'less':39 'mald':51 'none':70 'peopl':48,85 'point':73 'rais':75 'regular':67 'road':26 'speak':1 'speed':13,40 'still':65 'stop':47 'termin':87 'time':38 'trip':11 'would':28 'wouldn':8"
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          date: 2024-01-07 15:15:31.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 288725
      }
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2023
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2030 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: "I’m not sure if you’re being serious here"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 3
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1704651909 {#1403
          date: 2024-01-07 19:25:09.0 +01:00
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2032 …}
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        -id: 289601
        -bodyTs: "'m':2 're':7 'serious':9 'sure':4"
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:25:09.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 289601
      }
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2027
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2035 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: """
          > Why not?\n
          \n
          Because that’s hardly what can be considered a realistic solution. Again, not against it, but what, are you gonna close down like 90% of roads? Only some of them, if so, which ones, and how is stuff handled on the ones that remain open?
          """
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:42:56.0 +01:00
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2031 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2037 …}
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        -id: 289649
        -bodyTs: "'90':26 'close':23 'consid':10 'gonna':22 'handl':41 'hard':6 'like':25 'one':36,44 'open':47 'realist':12 'remain':46 'road':28 'solut':13 'stuff':40"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1704652976 {#2013
          date: 2024-01-07 19:42:56.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 289649
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2096
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2062 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2377 …}
        +body: """
          > just roads that “require” speed cameras.\n
          \n
          So when’s that the case or not
          """
        +lang: "en"
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        +favouriteCount: 4
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:58:47.0 +01:00
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Rom@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
          "@PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2081 …}
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        -id: 289695
        -bodyTs: "'camera':6 'case':12 'requir':4 'road':2 'speed':5"
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          date: 2024-01-07 19:58:47.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 289695
      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2092
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
        +image: null
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
        +body: "It’s a bad TL;DR but they do lay out why it’s illegal"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2024-01-07 20:56:29.0 +01:00
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
          "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2241 …}
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      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2351
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2347 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
        +body: "What’s your usual transportation method?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
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          date: 2024-01-08 17:03:55.0 +01:00
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@unmagical@lemmy.ml"
          "@CommodoreSixtyFour_@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
          "@7bicycles@hexbear.net"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2332 …}
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        -id: 291985
        -bodyTs: "'method':6 'transport':5 'usual':4"
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          date: 2024-01-08 17:03:55.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 291985
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2327
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        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2329 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2333 …}
        +body: """
          > You want people to actually slow down? Redesign the road.\n
          \n
          I’ve posed this question elsewhere in this thread and: what until then? Like what do you do until a good, what, 50 - 90% of road depending on criteria, is redesigned?
          """
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          "@mondoman712@lemmy.ml"
          "@Awoo@hexbear.net"
        ]
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        -id: 291989
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          date: 2024-01-08 17:07:53.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 291989
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2143
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2370 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1686 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2333 …}
        +body: """
          > Croydon council responded to FOI request stating it costs £2.5-£3.5k to install traffic islands. The cost of a speed camera installation on the other hand is £85,000 according to Bedford Council, with a £5000 annual upkeep cost.\n
          \n
          Croydon cites average cost for roughly such an action at 2,5k - 3,5k in a denial of the FOI request which means there’s pretty much no way to know how much it actually costs depending on what they calculate the average on and if you have any idea about the cost of public works that number should strike you as very, very oddly low.\n
          \n
          Wiltshire government [here](https://www.wiltshire.gov.uk/article/1281/Costs-of-highway-works) cites about 45.000k for a traffic island narrowing a road to one lane, all in all.\n
          \n
          The source you cite for the cameras, however, puts those costs for 2 cameras, so 42,500 a pop / 2500 upkeep annual, albeit with returns via fines obviously.
          """
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          date: 2024-01-08 17:33:32.0 +01:00
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          > The process and length of time it takes for either option are practically the same.\n
          \n
          Sure, but you’re arguing for like instant speed camera abolishment or destruction here, aye?\n
          \n
          > Not to mention a traffic island costs like £3k while a camera costs £85k (guess why they pick the camera despite the price).\n
          \n
          Dunno if you got to that one already but I’ve did a reply pointing out where you’re a bit off there
          """
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          You can just say yes, you don’t have to couch this shit in a good WKUK skit.\n
          \n
          Do they do harm to the poor that are on bicycles, or walking, then?
          """
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          date: 2024-01-08 18:56:34.0 +01:00
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2118
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        +body: """
          > Having been to court twice for online related stuff I will absolutely couch this shit.\n
          \n
          Fair, I meant it more on “don’t do it on my accord”\n
          \n
          > I do not see how that question is doing anything but attempting some sort of gotcha or accusation that these people\n
          \n
          Your these people just seems to have some very oddly drawn lines is the heart of it. It does include poor drivers, to whom speed cameras are a problem and not that much of a solution, it does not seem to include poor people not in a car, who profit from this. My FALGSOC doesn’t have speed cameras in it - who’s would - but it’s a long way from here to there.\n
          \n
          > deserve to be fucked over instead of have real designs that don’t result in their lives being made harder. It seems like spite to me.\n
          \n
          This is running on the assumption that I think people deserve to be fucked over for speeding, and that’s the main motivation. Sure, some of them, but that’s not the kind of distinction a speed cam could make on account of how it works. I’d very much be open to them not issuing fines but other punishments - as appropiate - to not make them so classist. Loss of driving license, if you really, really fuck up in a sports car that gets impounded or such, but I’ll concede, even that is far out from today, but just to point it out,\n
          \n
          My point here is that for every one it fucks over, it helps other people not being fucked over, because it does do something against speeding. My line of reasoning for speed cams is not that it fucks people over, it’s that it helps people. You wanna focus on the first part, I’m trying to get you to see the issue is more complex than that, at least if you include people outside of cars in your consideration. They’re not a good solution, by any means, again, I assume our optimal way of solving it is quite similar. For the meantime though, the fuck else do you do? Just abandon all traffic enforcement until all the roads get fixed? So what, 20 years of being vulnerable road users being even more endangered than now?
          """
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2229
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          > A negative in the short term leads to a longterm positive.\n
          \n
          I do not want to die a martyr to the fight against traffic cams.\n
          \n
          > Also I see no other method of doing this. If you go to the council and say “I want to replace this highly profitable traffic camera making hundreds of thousands per year with a traffic island that will make no money at all” the decision that any team will make internally is obvious.\n
          \n
          That kind of poses the second question as to what, in the interim, will be cut as per budget, but that’s a sidenote. I guarantee you without change far reaching enough to societally gain a new understanding of public space and roads, when the last speed cam is dismantled you’ll find all the roads still suck ass and will not be redesigned. Once you have the change so far reaching that you can reunderstand basically every road, yeah, then you don’t need the traffic cams anymore and they can be dismantled.
          """
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2322
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          > Meanwhile, in the real world we must be concerned with actually viable change.\n
          \n
          Real Zach Brannigan hours here on account of “It might get a lot of other people killed but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make”\n
          \n
          > You are inventing a fantasy reality to suit an anti car obsession. One I share, car reduction is good. However you’re being a tit now.\n
          \n
          What part of this is fantasy. Like where do you see the political potential for a nigh nationwide road redesign.
          """
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  +body: """
    > This is the weird fantasy part I was referring to. It’s like, just nonsense. It comes off like an american attitude being ported to the UK with absolutely no adaptation whatsoever to British conditions. Our conditions are nothing like america. Getting rid of cameras and getting traffic calming measures installed instead is not particularly difficult, it’s about the same. This idea of complete and widespread reinterpretation of public space? It doesn’t make sense here.\n
    \n
    I’m german tho.\n
    \n
    > By American standards it would be considered idyllic.\n
    \n
    As such, I do not believe american standards as per roads are anything to go by\n
    \n
    > Parts of the road already have traffic calming measures.\n
    \n
    That’s not really gonna stop anybody from speeding down the remaining lane(s) because they’re still very wide. It’s good for pedestrians, probably, don’t get me wrong, doesn’t really fight the speeding problem at all.\n
    \n
    > This is very easily expanded upon with the addition of chicanes, which are in wide use (hundreds of thousands) across the country.\n
    \n
    These do\n
    \n
    > There’s no “reimagining” needed here. People don’t need to develop a new consciousness of public space.\n
    \n
    Those are very much spotwork as per slowing down cars. They work for that spot, yes. It is however absolutely not hard to accelerate a car again. This is a good idea to slow people down before a busy or a school crossing or something, the third picture especially is just going to lead to slow down / wait -&gt; mash gas pedal\n
    \n
    > We do not live in a country that is utterly obsessed with cars like america.\n
    \n
    True, but also nigh about the lowest bar to clear right after like Saudi Arabia.\n
    \n
    > There are zero political barriers to this, the only barrier is the profit/revenue barrier of the traffic camera obsessed crowd.\n
    \n
    And you accuse me of living in some fantasy reality?\n
    \n
    > In every town, in every village, in every city. Outisde every school. In every residential area. All over the country.\n
    \n
    Same, could find similar features here by looking out my old apartments window. Hell, do you one better than that, we have shit like this\n
    \n
    ![](https://hexbear.net/pictrs/image/da817aa1-0f08-452f-9f76-95587ddeb3e0.png)\n
    \n
    Sorry for the grainy pictures, didn’t wanna spend that much time on google. Now that’s a road you can’t speed on, on account of many chicanes and other built up enviroments, not just the single one and then it’s open road before and after.\n
    \n
    Doesn’t mean the rest of it isn’t incredibly car brained and hostile, and as such, transportation by foot or cycling sucks major ass.\n
    \n
    If your vision of not being carbrained is “do better than the USA”, yeah, you’re there, but that shouldn’t be the end goal
    """
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null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1592
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      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1592 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1579 …}
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1592
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  +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2778 …}
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  +ip: null
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  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2828 …}
  +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2830 …}
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      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1592 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1579 …}
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      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1582 …}
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  -titleTs: "'help':2 'pleas':3 'send':1"
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1592
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  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1579 …}
  +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2778 …}
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2818 …}
  +slug: "Send-help-please"
  +title: "Send help please 🥺"
  +url: "https://fanaticus.social/pictrs/image/8c826a70-a1c9-4407-b7a9-59a0ac5a90e0.jpeg"
  +body: null
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  +hasEmbed: true
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  +ip: null
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  +tags: null
  +mentions: null
  +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2820 …}
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  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2828 …}
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      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1592 …2}
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      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1580 …}
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      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1582 …}
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1697
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  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1592
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2176 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1579 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2778 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2818 …}
    +slug: "Send-help-please"
    +title: "Send help please 🥺"
    +url: "https://fanaticus.social/pictrs/image/8c826a70-a1c9-4407-b7a9-59a0ac5a90e0.jpeg"
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    +hasEmbed: true
    +commentCount: 4
    +favouriteCount: 44
    +score: 0
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    +lastActive: DateTime @1699986123 {#2813
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    +ip: null
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    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2820 …}
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    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2826 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2828 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2830 …}
    +children: [
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    ]
    -id: 12996
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    +apId: "https://fanaticus.social/post/879898"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699982003 {#2801
      date: 2023-11-14 18:13:23.0 +01:00
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    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
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  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1579 …}
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  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1580 …}
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  +"title": 124063
}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1697
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  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1592
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2176 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1579 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2778 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2818 …}
    +slug: "Send-help-please"
    +title: "Send help please 🥺"
    +url: "https://fanaticus.social/pictrs/image/8c826a70-a1c9-4407-b7a9-59a0ac5a90e0.jpeg"
    +body: null
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    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2820 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2822 …}
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    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2830 …}
    +children: [
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    -titleTs: "'help':2 'pleas':3 'send':1"
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699982003 {#2801
      date: 2023-11-14 18:13:23.0 +01:00
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  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1579 …}
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1697
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  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1592
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    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1579 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2778 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2818 …}
    +slug: "Send-help-please"
    +title: "Send help please 🥺"
    +url: "https://fanaticus.social/pictrs/image/8c826a70-a1c9-4407-b7a9-59a0ac5a90e0.jpeg"
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699982003 {#2801
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  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1580 …}
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"

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