GET https://kbin.spritesserver.nl/u/@thesmokingman@programming.dev/active?p=1

Response
200 OK
IP
18.117.105.195
Profiled on
Token
756b12

Security

Token

There is no security token.

Firewall

main Name
Security enabled
Stateless

Configuration

Key Value
provider security.user.provider.concrete.app_user_provider
context main
entry_point App\Security\KbinAuthenticator
user_checker App\Security\UserChecker
access_denied_handler (none)
access_denied_url (none)
authenticators 
[
  "two_factor"
  "remember_me"
  "App\Security\KbinAuthenticator"
  "App\Security\FacebookAuthenticator"
  "App\Security\GoogleAuthenticator"
  "App\Security\GithubAuthenticator"
  "App\Security\KeycloakAuthenticator"
]

Listeners

Listener Duration Response 
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\ChannelListener {#723
  -map: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\AccessMap {#722 …}
  -logger: Monolog\Logger {#783 …}
  -httpPort: 80
  -httpsPort: 443
}
 0.00 ms (none) 
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\ContextListener {#706
  -tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\TokenStorage {#1017 …}
  -sessionKey: "_security_main"
  -logger: Monolog\Logger {#783 …}
  -userProviders: Symfony\Component\DependencyInjection\Argument\RewindableGenerator {#705 …}
  -dispatcher: Symfony\Component\EventDispatcher\Debug\TraceableEventDispatcher {#747 …}
  -registered: false
  -trustResolver: Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authentication\AuthenticationTrustResolver {#780 …}
  -sessionTrackerEnabler: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage::enableUsageTracking(): void {#703 …}
}
 0.26 ms (none) 
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\AuthenticatorManagerListener {#584
  -authenticatorManager: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Authentication\AuthenticatorManager {#595 …}
}
 0.00 ms (none) 
Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Http\Firewall\TwoFactorAccessListener {#582
  -twoFactorFirewallConfig: Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\TwoFactor\TwoFactorFirewallConfig {#842 …}
  -tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage {#1018 …}
  -twoFactorAccessDecider: Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\TwoFactorAccessDecider {#581 …}
}
 0.07 ms (none) 
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\AccessListener {#579
  -tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage {#1018 …}
  -accessDecisionManager: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\TraceableAccessDecisionManager {#937 …}
  -map: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\AccessMap {#722 …}
}
 0.00 ms (none) 
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\LogoutListener {#786
  -tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage {#1018 …}
  -options: [
    "csrf_parameter" => "_csrf_token"
    "csrf_token_id" => "logout"
    "logout_path" => "app_logout"
  ]
  -httpUtils: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\HttpUtils {#841 …}
  -csrfTokenManager: Symfony\Component\Security\Csrf\CsrfTokenManager {#1015 …}
  -eventDispatcher: Symfony\Component\EventDispatcher\Debug\TraceableEventDispatcher {#747 …}
}
 0.00 ms (none)

Authenticators

No authenticators have been recorded. Check previous profiles on your authentication endpoint.

Access Decision

affirmative Strategy
# Voter class
1 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\AuthenticatedVoter"
2 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
3 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
4 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\ExpressionVoter"
5 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
6 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
7 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
8 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
9 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
10 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
11 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
12 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
13 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
14 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"

Access decision log

# Result Attributes Object
1 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
2 DENIED moderate 
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2282
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2711 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2278 …}
  +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2910 …}
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2932 …}
  +slug: "OSS-Blacklist-A-blacklist-for-keeping-track-of-OSS-hostile-companies-organizations"
  +title: "OSS-Blacklist: A blacklist for keeping track of OSS hostile companies/organizations"
  +url: "https://codeberg.org/QazCetelic/OSS-Blacklist"
  +body: "Just saw the discussion around the Haier Home Assistant takedown and thought it would be good to materialize the metaphorical blacklist."
  +type: "link"
  +lang: "en"
  +isOc: false
  +hasEmbed: false
  +commentCount: 41
  +favouriteCount: 302
  +score: 0
  +isAdult: false
  +sticky: false
  +lastActive: DateTime @1728747413 {#2271
    date: 2024-10-12 17:36:53.0 +02:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +adaAmount: 0
  +tags: null
  +mentions: null
  +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2931 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2929 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2926 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2960 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2956 …}
  +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2973 …}
  +children: [
    1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2195
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2282 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2278 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2193 …}
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2280
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2282 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2278 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: null
        +root: null
        +body: """
          It’s probably a good idea to have a stronger definition and mission. Here are a few scenarios you should consider.\n
          \n
          - FSF defines anything that’s not copyleft as hostile. That’s most companies. I personally don’t think I can tell my users what to do with my software other than remove my liability so I vehemently disagree with Stallman.\n
          - Mongo wrote the SSPL and MariaDB wrote the BSL. Both licenses are seen as regressions. I personally respect the MariaDB case and have been harassed by too many Mongo salespeople to say the same about them.\n
          - Platforms like AWS are the reason companies like CockroachDB and Elastic implemented restrictive licenses.\n
          - IBM has been gutting open source through its acquisition of Red Hat. This is a common story; Oracle has been screwing *nix longer.\n
          - Protecting trademarks causes a lot of consternation from users. The Rust Foundation is the most recent example of this I remember blowing up the FOSS community.\n
          \n
          I like your idea a lot. I think it needs some definition to be very successful!
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 29
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1726916850 {#2281
          date: 2024-09-21 13:07:30.0 +02:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@qaz@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2276 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2275 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2261 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2218 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2221 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2217 …}
        -id: 322177
        -bodyTs: "'acquisit':120 'anyth':24 'aw':100 'blow':156 'bsl':70 'case':82 'caus':137 'cockroachdb':106 'common':127 'communiti':160 'compani':34,104 'consid':21 'constern':141 'copyleft':28 'defin':23 'definit':11,172 'disagre':59 'elast':108 'exampl':151 'foss':159 'foundat':146 'fsf':22 'good':5 'gut':115 'harass':86 'hat':123 'hostil':30 'ibm':112 'idea':6,164 'implement':109 'liabil':55 'licens':72,111 'like':99,105,162 'longer':134 'lot':139,166 'mani':89 'mariadb':67,81 'mission':13 'mongo':62,90 'need':170 'nix':133 'open':116 'oracl':129 'person':36,78 'platform':98 'probabl':3 'protect':135 'reason':103 'recent':150 'red':122 'regress':76 'rememb':155 'remov':53 'respect':79 'restrict':110 'rust':145 'salespeopl':91 'say':93 'scenario':18 'screw':132 'seen':74 'softwar':50 'sourc':117 'sspl':65 'stallman':61 'stori':128 'stronger':10 'success':176 'tell':42 'think':39,168 'trademark':136 'user':44,143 'vehement':58 'wrote':63,68"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://programming.dev/comment/6605464"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705659059 {#2283
          date: 2024-01-19 11:10:59.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 322177
      }
      +body: "I personally use Apache 2.0 because it’s been upheld in court. I’m not sure if MPL has been directly challenged in court. Either way, I agree with the sentiment. The legal perspective is why I moved away from MIT/ISC."
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 1
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1705676765 {#2199
        date: 2024-01-19 16:06:05.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@qaz@lemmy.world"
        "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
        "@jackpot@lemmy.ml"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2197 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2206 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2201 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2203 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2212 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2209 …}
      -id: 322918
      -bodyTs: "'2.0':5 'agre':28 'apach':4 'away':39 'challeng':22 'court':12,24 'direct':21 'either':25 'legal':33 'm':14 'mit/isc':41 'move':38 'mpl':18 'person':2 'perspect':34 'sentiment':31 'sure':16 'upheld':10 'use':3 'way':26"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://programming.dev/comment/6610419"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705676765 {#2194
        date: 2024-01-19 16:06:05.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 322918
    }
    0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2280}
  ]
  -id: 31660
  -titleTs: "'blacklist':3,5 'companies/organizations':12 'hostil':11 'keep':7 'oss':2,10 'oss-blacklist':1 'track':8"
  -bodyTs: "'around':5 'assist':9 'blacklist':21 'discuss':4 'good':16 'haier':7 'home':8 'materi':18 'metaphor':20 'saw':2 'takedown':10 'thought':12 'would':14"
  +cross: false
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +ranking: 1705736178
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://lemmy.world/post/10898511"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705649778 {#2805
    date: 2024-01-19 08:36:18.0 +01:00
  }
  +__isInitialized__: true
   …2
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
3 DENIED edit 
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2282
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2711 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2278 …}
  +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2910 …}
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2932 …}
  +slug: "OSS-Blacklist-A-blacklist-for-keeping-track-of-OSS-hostile-companies-organizations"
  +title: "OSS-Blacklist: A blacklist for keeping track of OSS hostile companies/organizations"
  +url: "https://codeberg.org/QazCetelic/OSS-Blacklist"
  +body: "Just saw the discussion around the Haier Home Assistant takedown and thought it would be good to materialize the metaphorical blacklist."
  +type: "link"
  +lang: "en"
  +isOc: false
  +hasEmbed: false
  +commentCount: 41
  +favouriteCount: 302
  +score: 0
  +isAdult: false
  +sticky: false
  +lastActive: DateTime @1728747413 {#2271
    date: 2024-10-12 17:36:53.0 +02:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +adaAmount: 0
  +tags: null
  +mentions: null
  +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2931 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2929 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2926 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2960 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2956 …}
  +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2973 …}
  +children: [
    1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2195
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2282 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2278 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2193 …}
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2280
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2282 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2278 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: null
        +root: null
        +body: """
          It’s probably a good idea to have a stronger definition and mission. Here are a few scenarios you should consider.\n
          \n
          - FSF defines anything that’s not copyleft as hostile. That’s most companies. I personally don’t think I can tell my users what to do with my software other than remove my liability so I vehemently disagree with Stallman.\n
          - Mongo wrote the SSPL and MariaDB wrote the BSL. Both licenses are seen as regressions. I personally respect the MariaDB case and have been harassed by too many Mongo salespeople to say the same about them.\n
          - Platforms like AWS are the reason companies like CockroachDB and Elastic implemented restrictive licenses.\n
          - IBM has been gutting open source through its acquisition of Red Hat. This is a common story; Oracle has been screwing *nix longer.\n
          - Protecting trademarks causes a lot of consternation from users. The Rust Foundation is the most recent example of this I remember blowing up the FOSS community.\n
          \n
          I like your idea a lot. I think it needs some definition to be very successful!
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 29
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1726916850 {#2281
          date: 2024-09-21 13:07:30.0 +02:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@qaz@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2276 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2275 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2261 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2218 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2221 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2217 …}
        -id: 322177
        -bodyTs: "'acquisit':120 'anyth':24 'aw':100 'blow':156 'bsl':70 'case':82 'caus':137 'cockroachdb':106 'common':127 'communiti':160 'compani':34,104 'consid':21 'constern':141 'copyleft':28 'defin':23 'definit':11,172 'disagre':59 'elast':108 'exampl':151 'foss':159 'foundat':146 'fsf':22 'good':5 'gut':115 'harass':86 'hat':123 'hostil':30 'ibm':112 'idea':6,164 'implement':109 'liabil':55 'licens':72,111 'like':99,105,162 'longer':134 'lot':139,166 'mani':89 'mariadb':67,81 'mission':13 'mongo':62,90 'need':170 'nix':133 'open':116 'oracl':129 'person':36,78 'platform':98 'probabl':3 'protect':135 'reason':103 'recent':150 'red':122 'regress':76 'rememb':155 'remov':53 'respect':79 'restrict':110 'rust':145 'salespeopl':91 'say':93 'scenario':18 'screw':132 'seen':74 'softwar':50 'sourc':117 'sspl':65 'stallman':61 'stori':128 'stronger':10 'success':176 'tell':42 'think':39,168 'trademark':136 'user':44,143 'vehement':58 'wrote':63,68"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://programming.dev/comment/6605464"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705659059 {#2283
          date: 2024-01-19 11:10:59.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 322177
      }
      +body: "I personally use Apache 2.0 because it’s been upheld in court. I’m not sure if MPL has been directly challenged in court. Either way, I agree with the sentiment. The legal perspective is why I moved away from MIT/ISC."
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 1
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1705676765 {#2199
        date: 2024-01-19 16:06:05.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@qaz@lemmy.world"
        "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
        "@jackpot@lemmy.ml"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2197 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2206 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2201 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2203 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2212 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2209 …}
      -id: 322918
      -bodyTs: "'2.0':5 'agre':28 'apach':4 'away':39 'challeng':22 'court':12,24 'direct':21 'either':25 'legal':33 'm':14 'mit/isc':41 'move':38 'mpl':18 'person':2 'perspect':34 'sentiment':31 'sure':16 'upheld':10 'use':3 'way':26"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://programming.dev/comment/6610419"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705676765 {#2194
        date: 2024-01-19 16:06:05.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 322918
    }
    0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2280}
  ]
  -id: 31660
  -titleTs: "'blacklist':3,5 'companies/organizations':12 'hostil':11 'keep':7 'oss':2,10 'oss-blacklist':1 'track':8"
  -bodyTs: "'around':5 'assist':9 'blacklist':21 'discuss':4 'good':16 'haier':7 'home':8 'materi':18 'metaphor':20 'saw':2 'takedown':10 'thought':12 'would':14"
  +cross: false
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +ranking: 1705736178
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://lemmy.world/post/10898511"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705649778 {#2805
    date: 2024-01-19 08:36:18.0 +01:00
  }
  +__isInitialized__: true
   …2
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
4 DENIED moderate 
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2282
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2711 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2278 …}
  +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2910 …}
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2932 …}
  +slug: "OSS-Blacklist-A-blacklist-for-keeping-track-of-OSS-hostile-companies-organizations"
  +title: "OSS-Blacklist: A blacklist for keeping track of OSS hostile companies/organizations"
  +url: "https://codeberg.org/QazCetelic/OSS-Blacklist"
  +body: "Just saw the discussion around the Haier Home Assistant takedown and thought it would be good to materialize the metaphorical blacklist."
  +type: "link"
  +lang: "en"
  +isOc: false
  +hasEmbed: false
  +commentCount: 41
  +favouriteCount: 302
  +score: 0
  +isAdult: false
  +sticky: false
  +lastActive: DateTime @1728747413 {#2271
    date: 2024-10-12 17:36:53.0 +02:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +adaAmount: 0
  +tags: null
  +mentions: null
  +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2931 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2929 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2926 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2960 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2956 …}
  +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2973 …}
  +children: [
    1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2195
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2282 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2278 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2193 …}
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2280
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2282 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2278 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: null
        +root: null
        +body: """
          It’s probably a good idea to have a stronger definition and mission. Here are a few scenarios you should consider.\n
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          - FSF defines anything that’s not copyleft as hostile. That’s most companies. I personally don’t think I can tell my users what to do with my software other than remove my liability so I vehemently disagree with Stallman.\n
          - Mongo wrote the SSPL and MariaDB wrote the BSL. Both licenses are seen as regressions. I personally respect the MariaDB case and have been harassed by too many Mongo salespeople to say the same about them.\n
          - Platforms like AWS are the reason companies like CockroachDB and Elastic implemented restrictive licenses.\n
          - IBM has been gutting open source through its acquisition of Red Hat. This is a common story; Oracle has been screwing *nix longer.\n
          - Protecting trademarks causes a lot of consternation from users. The Rust Foundation is the most recent example of this I remember blowing up the FOSS community.\n
          \n
          I like your idea a lot. I think it needs some definition to be very successful!
          """
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          date: 2024-01-19 11:10:59.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 322177
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        "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
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   …2
}
 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
5 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
6 DENIED moderate 
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          It’s probably a good idea to have a stronger definition and mission. Here are a few scenarios you should consider.\n
          \n
          - FSF defines anything that’s not copyleft as hostile. That’s most companies. I personally don’t think I can tell my users what to do with my software other than remove my liability so I vehemently disagree with Stallman.\n
          - Mongo wrote the SSPL and MariaDB wrote the BSL. Both licenses are seen as regressions. I personally respect the MariaDB case and have been harassed by too many Mongo salespeople to say the same about them.\n
          - Platforms like AWS are the reason companies like CockroachDB and Elastic implemented restrictive licenses.\n
          - IBM has been gutting open source through its acquisition of Red Hat. This is a common story; Oracle has been screwing *nix longer.\n
          - Protecting trademarks causes a lot of consternation from users. The Rust Foundation is the most recent example of this I remember blowing up the FOSS community.\n
          \n
          I like your idea a lot. I think it needs some definition to be very successful!
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     …2
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    "@qaz@lemmy.world"
    "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
7 DENIED edit 
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          It’s probably a good idea to have a stronger definition and mission. Here are a few scenarios you should consider.\n
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          - FSF defines anything that’s not copyleft as hostile. That’s most companies. I personally don’t think I can tell my users what to do with my software other than remove my liability so I vehemently disagree with Stallman.\n
          - Mongo wrote the SSPL and MariaDB wrote the BSL. Both licenses are seen as regressions. I personally respect the MariaDB case and have been harassed by too many Mongo salespeople to say the same about them.\n
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          - IBM has been gutting open source through its acquisition of Red Hat. This is a common story; Oracle has been screwing *nix longer.\n
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          I like your idea a lot. I think it needs some definition to be very successful!
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     …2
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
8 DENIED moderate 
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          It’s probably a good idea to have a stronger definition and mission. Here are a few scenarios you should consider.\n
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          - Mongo wrote the SSPL and MariaDB wrote the BSL. Both licenses are seen as regressions. I personally respect the MariaDB case and have been harassed by too many Mongo salespeople to say the same about them.\n
          - Platforms like AWS are the reason companies like CockroachDB and Elastic implemented restrictive licenses.\n
          - IBM has been gutting open source through its acquisition of Red Hat. This is a common story; Oracle has been screwing *nix longer.\n
          - Protecting trademarks causes a lot of consternation from users. The Rust Foundation is the most recent example of this I remember blowing up the FOSS community.\n
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          I like your idea a lot. I think it needs some definition to be very successful!
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     …2
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    It’s probably a good idea to have a stronger definition and mission. Here are a few scenarios you should consider.\n
    \n
    - FSF defines anything that’s not copyleft as hostile. That’s most companies. I personally don’t think I can tell my users what to do with my software other than remove my liability so I vehemently disagree with Stallman.\n
    - Mongo wrote the SSPL and MariaDB wrote the BSL. Both licenses are seen as regressions. I personally respect the MariaDB case and have been harassed by too many Mongo salespeople to say the same about them.\n
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    I like your idea a lot. I think it needs some definition to be very successful!
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Show voter details
11 DENIED edit 
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    It’s probably a good idea to have a stronger definition and mission. Here are a few scenarios you should consider.\n
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  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705659059 {#2283
    date: 2024-01-19 11:10:59.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 322177
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
12 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2280
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2282
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2711 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2278 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2910 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2932 …}
    +slug: "OSS-Blacklist-A-blacklist-for-keeping-track-of-OSS-hostile-companies-organizations"
    +title: "OSS-Blacklist: A blacklist for keeping track of OSS hostile companies/organizations"
    +url: "https://codeberg.org/QazCetelic/OSS-Blacklist"
    +body: "Just saw the discussion around the Haier Home Assistant takedown and thought it would be good to materialize the metaphorical blacklist."
    +type: "link"
    +lang: "en"
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    +children: [
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2195
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2282 …2}
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        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2193 …}
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2280}
        +body: "I personally use Apache 2.0 because it’s been upheld in court. I’m not sure if MPL has been directly challenged in court. Either way, I agree with the sentiment. The legal perspective is why I moved away from MIT/ISC."
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          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
          "@jackpot@lemmy.ml"
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        +"title": 322918
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2280}
    ]
    -id: 31660
    -titleTs: "'blacklist':3,5 'companies/organizations':12 'hostil':11 'keep':7 'oss':2,10 'oss-blacklist':1 'track':8"
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    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2278 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: null
  +root: null
  +body: """
    It’s probably a good idea to have a stronger definition and mission. Here are a few scenarios you should consider.\n
    \n
    - FSF defines anything that’s not copyleft as hostile. That’s most companies. I personally don’t think I can tell my users what to do with my software other than remove my liability so I vehemently disagree with Stallman.\n
    - Mongo wrote the SSPL and MariaDB wrote the BSL. Both licenses are seen as regressions. I personally respect the MariaDB case and have been harassed by too many Mongo salespeople to say the same about them.\n
    - Platforms like AWS are the reason companies like CockroachDB and Elastic implemented restrictive licenses.\n
    - IBM has been gutting open source through its acquisition of Red Hat. This is a common story; Oracle has been screwing *nix longer.\n
    - Protecting trademarks causes a lot of consternation from users. The Rust Foundation is the most recent example of this I remember blowing up the FOSS community.\n
    \n
    I like your idea a lot. I think it needs some definition to be very successful!
    """
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  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2276 …}
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  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705659059 {#2283
    date: 2024-01-19 11:10:59.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 322177
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
13 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
14 DENIED moderate 
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2305
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2679 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2370 …}
  +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2766 …}
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2975 …}
  +slug: "Meow"
  +title: "Meow"
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    date: 2024-09-22 06:07:46.0 +02:00
  }
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      +image: null
      +parent: null
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      +body: "You can get this [on a pin](https://www.etsy.com/listing/1286609491/) (not the seller; had problems with the seller so YMMV). The art itself is called “Flaisch Macht Flaisch.”"
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  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705648216 {#2889
    date: 2024-01-19 08:10:16.0 +01:00
  }
  +__isInitialized__: true
   …2
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
15 DENIED edit 
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2305
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2679 …}
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  +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2766 …}
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      +body: "You can get this [on a pin](https://www.etsy.com/listing/1286609491/) (not the seller; had problems with the seller so YMMV). The art itself is called “Flaisch Macht Flaisch.”"
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    date: 2024-01-19 08:10:16.0 +01:00
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   …2
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
16 DENIED moderate 
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2305
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  +apId: "https://lemmy.world/post/10897671"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705648216 {#2889
    date: 2024-01-19 08:10:16.0 +01:00
  }
  +__isInitialized__: true
   …2
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
17 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
18 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2308
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2305
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2679 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2370 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2766 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2975 …}
    +slug: "Meow"
    +title: "Meow"
    +url: "https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/543c0b04-09e0-47e8-9fe1-3e11d277bbe7.jpeg"
    +body: null
    +type: "image"
    +lang: "en"
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    +hasEmbed: true
    +commentCount: 24
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    +score: 0
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    +lastActive: DateTime @1726978066 {#2970
      date: 2024-09-22 06:07:46.0 +02:00
    }
    +ip: null
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    +tags: null
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    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2976 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2986 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2988 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2990 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2992 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2994 …}
    +children: [
      App\Entity\EntryComment {#2308}
    ]
    -id: 31657
    -titleTs: "'meow':1"
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    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1705734616
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemmy.world/post/10897671"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705648216 {#2889
      date: 2024-01-19 08:10:16.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2370 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: null
  +root: null
  +body: "You can get this [on a pin](https://www.etsy.com/listing/1286609491/) (not the seller; had problems with the seller so YMMV). The art itself is called “Flaisch Macht Flaisch.”"
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    date: 2024-09-19 00:24:42.0 +02:00
  }
  +ip: null
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  +mentions: [
    "@ObviouslyNotBanana@lemmy.world"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2304 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2319 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2318 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2316 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2294 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2296 …}
  -id: 322150
  -bodyTs: "'/listing/1286609491/)':10 'art':22 'call':25 'flaisch':26,28 'get':3 'macht':27 'pin':7 'problem':15 'seller':13,18 'www.etsy.com':9 'www.etsy.com/listing/1286609491/)':8 'ymmv':20"
  +ranking: 0
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  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705658104 {#2306
    date: 2024-01-19 10:55:04.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 322150
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
19 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2308
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2305
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2679 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2370 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2766 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2975 …}
    +slug: "Meow"
    +title: "Meow"
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    +body: null
    +type: "image"
    +lang: "en"
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    +hasEmbed: true
    +commentCount: 24
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    +score: 0
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      date: 2024-09-22 06:07:46.0 +02:00
    }
    +ip: null
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    +tags: null
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    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2976 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2986 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2988 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2990 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2992 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2994 …}
    +children: [
      App\Entity\EntryComment {#2308}
    ]
    -id: 31657
    -titleTs: "'meow':1"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1705734616
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemmy.world/post/10897671"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705648216 {#2889
      date: 2024-01-19 08:10:16.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2370 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: null
  +root: null
  +body: "You can get this [on a pin](https://www.etsy.com/listing/1286609491/) (not the seller; had problems with the seller so YMMV). The art itself is called “Flaisch Macht Flaisch.”"
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    date: 2024-09-19 00:24:42.0 +02:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@ObviouslyNotBanana@lemmy.world"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2304 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2319 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2318 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2316 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2294 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2296 …}
  -id: 322150
  -bodyTs: "'/listing/1286609491/)':10 'art':22 'call':25 'flaisch':26,28 'get':3 'macht':27 'pin':7 'problem':15 'seller':13,18 'www.etsy.com':9 'www.etsy.com/listing/1286609491/)':8 'ymmv':20"
  +ranking: 0
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  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705658104 {#2306
    date: 2024-01-19 10:55:04.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 322150
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
20 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2308
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2305
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2679 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2370 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2766 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2975 …}
    +slug: "Meow"
    +title: "Meow"
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    +body: null
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    +lang: "en"
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    +hasEmbed: true
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    +score: 0
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    +lastActive: DateTime @1726978066 {#2970
      date: 2024-09-22 06:07:46.0 +02:00
    }
    +ip: null
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    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2976 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2986 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2988 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2990 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2992 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2994 …}
    +children: [
      App\Entity\EntryComment {#2308}
    ]
    -id: 31657
    -titleTs: "'meow':1"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1705734616
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemmy.world/post/10897671"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705648216 {#2889
      date: 2024-01-19 08:10:16.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2370 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: null
  +root: null
  +body: "You can get this [on a pin](https://www.etsy.com/listing/1286609491/) (not the seller; had problems with the seller so YMMV). The art itself is called “Flaisch Macht Flaisch.”"
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    date: 2024-09-19 00:24:42.0 +02:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@ObviouslyNotBanana@lemmy.world"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2304 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2319 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2318 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2316 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2294 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2296 …}
  -id: 322150
  -bodyTs: "'/listing/1286609491/)':10 'art':22 'call':25 'flaisch':26,28 'get':3 'macht':27 'pin':7 'problem':15 'seller':13,18 'www.etsy.com':9 'www.etsy.com/listing/1286609491/)':8 'ymmv':20"
  +ranking: 0
  +commentCount: 0
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://programming.dev/comment/6605269"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705658104 {#2306
    date: 2024-01-19 10:55:04.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 322150
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
21 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
22 DENIED moderate 
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2130
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2887 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1711 …}
  +image: null
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3001 …}
  +slug: "Linux-in-the-corporate-space"
  +title: "Linux in the corporate space"
  +url: null
  +body: """
    I made this post because I am really curious if Linux is used in offices and educational centres like schools.\n
    \n
    While we all know Windows is the mac-daddy in the business space, are there any businesses you know or workplaces that actually Linux as a business replacement for Windows?\n
    \n
    I.e. Mint or Ubuntu, I am not strictly talking about the server side of things.
    """
  +type: "article"
  +lang: "en"
  +isOc: false
  +hasEmbed: false
  +commentCount: 106
  +favouriteCount: 154
  +score: 0
  +isAdult: false
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  +lastActive: DateTime @1722606537 {#2996
    date: 2024-08-02 15:48:57.0 +02:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +adaAmount: 0
  +tags: null
  +mentions: null
  +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3003 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3005 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3007 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3009 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3011 …}
  +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3013 …}
  +children: [
    App\Entity\EntryComment {#2140
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2130 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1711 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: null
      +root: null
      +body: """
        I have attended or been involved with five different state universities and a few different community colleges. For computer science, aside from one glaring exception, the default has been some flavor of Linux. The earliest for me at a school was Fedora 7. I think they had been running Solaris in the late 90s; not sure what was before that.\n
        \n
        The only glaring exception is Georgia Tech. Because of the spyware you have to install for tests, you have to use Windows. Windows in a VM can be flagged as cheating. I’m naming and shaming Georgia Tech because they push their online courses hard and then require an operating system that isn’t standard for all the other places I’ve been or audited courses.
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
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      +score: 0
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        date: 2024-06-28 20:49:47.0 +02:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@Tekkip20@lemmy.world"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2133 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2131 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2138 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2345 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2330 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2346 …}
      -id: 294262
      -bodyTs: "'7':43 '90s':54 'asid':21 'attend':3 'audit':125 'cheat':91 'colleg':17 'communiti':16 'comput':19 'cours':104,126 'default':27 'differ':9,15 'earliest':35 'except':25,64 'fedora':42 'five':8 'flag':89 'flavor':31 'georgia':66,97 'glare':24,63 'hard':105 'instal':75 'involv':6 'isn':113 'late':53 'linux':33 'm':93 'name':94 'one':23 'onlin':103 'oper':110 'place':120 'push':101 'requir':108 'run':49 'school':40 'scienc':20 'shame':96 'solari':50 'spywar':71 'standard':115 'state':10 'sure':56 'system':111 'tech':67,98 'test':77 'think':45 'univers':11 'use':81 've':122 'vm':86 'window':82,83"
      +ranking: 0
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        date: 2024-01-09 21:49:29.0 +01:00
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  ]
  -id: 28153
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  +cross: false
  +upVotes: 0
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  +ranking: 1704832613
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://lemmy.world/post/10470862"
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    date: 2024-01-08 21:36:53.0 +01:00
  }
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   …2
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
23 DENIED edit 
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2130
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2887 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1711 …}
  +image: null
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3001 …}
  +slug: "Linux-in-the-corporate-space"
  +title: "Linux in the corporate space"
  +url: null
  +body: """
    I made this post because I am really curious if Linux is used in offices and educational centres like schools.\n
    \n
    While we all know Windows is the mac-daddy in the business space, are there any businesses you know or workplaces that actually Linux as a business replacement for Windows?\n
    \n
    I.e. Mint or Ubuntu, I am not strictly talking about the server side of things.
    """
  +type: "article"
  +lang: "en"
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  +hasEmbed: false
  +commentCount: 106
  +favouriteCount: 154
  +score: 0
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    date: 2024-08-02 15:48:57.0 +02:00
  }
  +ip: null
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  +tags: null
  +mentions: null
  +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3003 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3005 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3007 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3009 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3011 …}
  +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3013 …}
  +children: [
    App\Entity\EntryComment {#2140
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2130 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1711 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: null
      +root: null
      +body: """
        I have attended or been involved with five different state universities and a few different community colleges. For computer science, aside from one glaring exception, the default has been some flavor of Linux. The earliest for me at a school was Fedora 7. I think they had been running Solaris in the late 90s; not sure what was before that.\n
        \n
        The only glaring exception is Georgia Tech. Because of the spyware you have to install for tests, you have to use Windows. Windows in a VM can be flagged as cheating. I’m naming and shaming Georgia Tech because they push their online courses hard and then require an operating system that isn’t standard for all the other places I’ve been or audited courses.
        """
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
24 DENIED moderate 
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2130
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  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1711 …}
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    While we all know Windows is the mac-daddy in the business space, are there any businesses you know or workplaces that actually Linux as a business replacement for Windows?\n
    \n
    I.e. Mint or Ubuntu, I am not strictly talking about the server side of things.
    """
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        I have attended or been involved with five different state universities and a few different community colleges. For computer science, aside from one glaring exception, the default has been some flavor of Linux. The earliest for me at a school was Fedora 7. I think they had been running Solaris in the late 90s; not sure what was before that.\n
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        The only glaring exception is Georgia Tech. Because of the spyware you have to install for tests, you have to use Windows. Windows in a VM can be flagged as cheating. I’m naming and shaming Georgia Tech because they push their online courses hard and then require an operating system that isn’t standard for all the other places I’ve been or audited courses.
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
25 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
26 DENIED moderate 
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      While we all know Windows is the mac-daddy in the business space, are there any businesses you know or workplaces that actually Linux as a business replacement for Windows?\n
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     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1711 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: null
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    I have attended or been involved with five different state universities and a few different community colleges. For computer science, aside from one glaring exception, the default has been some flavor of Linux. The earliest for me at a school was Fedora 7. I think they had been running Solaris in the late 90s; not sure what was before that.\n
    \n
    The only glaring exception is Georgia Tech. Because of the spyware you have to install for tests, you have to use Windows. Windows in a VM can be flagged as cheating. I’m naming and shaming Georgia Tech because they push their online courses hard and then require an operating system that isn’t standard for all the other places I’ve been or audited courses.
    """
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}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
27 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2140
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      I made this post because I am really curious if Linux is used in offices and educational centres like schools.\n
      \n
      While we all know Windows is the mac-daddy in the business space, are there any businesses you know or workplaces that actually Linux as a business replacement for Windows?\n
      \n
      I.e. Mint or Ubuntu, I am not strictly talking about the server side of things.
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     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1711 …}
  +image: null
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    I have attended or been involved with five different state universities and a few different community colleges. For computer science, aside from one glaring exception, the default has been some flavor of Linux. The earliest for me at a school was Fedora 7. I think they had been running Solaris in the late 90s; not sure what was before that.\n
    \n
    The only glaring exception is Georgia Tech. Because of the spyware you have to install for tests, you have to use Windows. Windows in a VM can be flagged as cheating. I’m naming and shaming Georgia Tech because they push their online courses hard and then require an operating system that isn’t standard for all the other places I’ve been or audited courses.
    """
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}
 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
28 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2140
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      I made this post because I am really curious if Linux is used in offices and educational centres like schools.\n
      \n
      While we all know Windows is the mac-daddy in the business space, are there any businesses you know or workplaces that actually Linux as a business replacement for Windows?\n
      \n
      I.e. Mint or Ubuntu, I am not strictly talking about the server side of things.
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      date: 2024-01-08 21:36:53.0 +01:00
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     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1711 …}
  +image: null
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    I have attended or been involved with five different state universities and a few different community colleges. For computer science, aside from one glaring exception, the default has been some flavor of Linux. The earliest for me at a school was Fedora 7. I think they had been running Solaris in the late 90s; not sure what was before that.\n
    \n
    The only glaring exception is Georgia Tech. Because of the spyware you have to install for tests, you have to use Windows. Windows in a VM can be flagged as cheating. I’m naming and shaming Georgia Tech because they push their online courses hard and then require an operating system that isn’t standard for all the other places I’ve been or audited courses.
    """
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    "@Tekkip20@lemmy.world"
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}
 
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Show voter details
29 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
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Show voter details
30 DENIED moderate 
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2393
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    I spent two hours today trying to figure out why Nextcloud couldn’t read my data directory. Docker wasn’t mounting my data directory. Moved everything into my data directory. Docker couldn’t even see the configuration file.\n
    \n
    Turns out the Docker Snap package only has access to files under the `/home` directory.\n
    \n
    Moral of the story: never trust a Snap package.
    """
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      +body: "The issue here is that Canonical pushed the snap install without warning about its reduced functionality. I don’t think highlighting a wildly different experience between a snap install and the Docker experience people are used to from the standard package install is “bashing it just because it’s popular to hate on snap.” For example, if you take a fresh Ubuntu server 22 install and use the snap package, not realizing that snaps have serious limitations *which are not explicitly called out when the snap is offered in the installation process*, you’re going to be confused unless you already have that knowledge. It also very helpfully masks everything so debugging is incredibly difficult if you are not already aware of the snap limitations."
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      +body: "It’s also offered as part of the installation process at least for Ubuntu server. If you don’t know better it bites you real quick."
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   …2
}
 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
31 DENIED edit 
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2393
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  +slug: "PSA-The-Docker-Snap-package-on-Ubuntu-sucks"
  +title: "PSA: The Docker Snap package on Ubuntu sucks."
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    \n
    Turns out the Docker Snap package only has access to files under the `/home` directory.\n
    \n
    Moral of the story: never trust a Snap package.
    """
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      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1384 …}
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      +body: "The issue here is that Canonical pushed the snap install without warning about its reduced functionality. I don’t think highlighting a wildly different experience between a snap install and the Docker experience people are used to from the standard package install is “bashing it just because it’s popular to hate on snap.” For example, if you take a fresh Ubuntu server 22 install and use the snap package, not realizing that snaps have serious limitations *which are not explicitly called out when the snap is offered in the installation process*, you’re going to be confused unless you already have that knowledge. It also very helpfully masks everything so debugging is incredibly difficult if you are not already aware of the snap limitations."
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        date: 2024-01-05 14:29:52.0 +01:00
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        "@krash@lemmy.ml"
      ]
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    0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2030
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}
 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
32 DENIED moderate 
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2393
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        date: 2024-01-05 14:29:52.0 +01:00
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        "@hperrin@lemmy.world"
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
36 DENIED moderate 
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        +body: "The issue here is that Canonical pushed the snap install without warning about its reduced functionality. I don’t think highlighting a wildly different experience between a snap install and the Docker experience people are used to from the standard package install is “bashing it just because it’s popular to hate on snap.” For example, if you take a fresh Ubuntu server 22 install and use the snap package, not realizing that snaps have serious limitations *which are not explicitly called out when the snap is offered in the installation process*, you’re going to be confused unless you already have that knowledge. It also very helpfully masks everything so debugging is incredibly difficult if you are not already aware of the snap limitations."
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        He added a midquel, *Port of Shadows*, in 2018, and there are some really good shorts you can find in his *Best of* collections that are also recent. I’ve found a lot of folks who read them back when have missed these!\n
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        He added a midquel, *Port of Shadows*, in 2018, and there are some really good shorts you can find in his *Best of* collections that are also recent. I’ve found a lot of folks who read them back when have missed these!\n
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        He added a midquel, *Port of Shadows*, in 2018, and there are some really good shorts you can find in his *Best of* collections that are also recent. I’ve found a lot of folks who read them back when have missed these!\n
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        I feel like this is a great rec because The Witcher is pretty grimdark and Cook is a grimdark progenitor. Good pick!
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        If you want more grimdark and it has to be fantasy, check out [Warhammer horror](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Warhammer_Horror) especially [the vampire Genevieve](https://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Drachenfels_(Novel)). If you’re okay with grimdark science military science fiction, a good chunk of the Warhammer 40k and Horus Heresy lines will fit your bill.\n
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46 DENIED moderate 
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          If you want more grimdark and it has to be fantasy, check out [Warhammer horror](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Warhammer_Horror) especially [the vampire Genevieve](https://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Drachenfels_(Novel)). If you’re okay with grimdark science military science fiction, a good chunk of the Warhammer 40k and Horus Heresy lines will fit your bill.\n
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    He added a midquel, *Port of Shadows*, in 2018, and there are some really good shorts you can find in his *Best of* collections that are also recent. I’ve found a lot of folks who read them back when have missed these!\n
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    I feel like this is a great rec because The Witcher is pretty grimdark and Cook is a grimdark progenitor. Good pick!
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          If you want more grimdark and it has to be fantasy, check out [Warhammer horror](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Warhammer_Horror) especially [the vampire Genevieve](https://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Drachenfels_(Novel)). If you’re okay with grimdark science military science fiction, a good chunk of the Warhammer 40k and Horus Heresy lines will fit your bill.\n
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    He added a midquel, *Port of Shadows*, in 2018, and there are some really good shorts you can find in his *Best of* collections that are also recent. I’ve found a lot of folks who read them back when have missed these!\n
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    I feel like this is a great rec because The Witcher is pretty grimdark and Cook is a grimdark progenitor. Good pick!
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          If you want more grimdark and it has to be fantasy, check out [Warhammer horror](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Warhammer_Horror) especially [the vampire Genevieve](https://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Drachenfels_(Novel)). If you’re okay with grimdark science military science fiction, a good chunk of the Warhammer 40k and Horus Heresy lines will fit your bill.\n
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    He added a midquel, *Port of Shadows*, in 2018, and there are some really good shorts you can find in his *Best of* collections that are also recent. I’ve found a lot of folks who read them back when have missed these!\n
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    I feel like this is a great rec because The Witcher is pretty grimdark and Cook is a grimdark progenitor. Good pick!
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          He added a midquel, *Port of Shadows*, in 2018, and there are some really good shorts you can find in his *Best of* collections that are also recent. I’ve found a lot of folks who read them back when have missed these!\n
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    If you want more grimdark and it has to be fantasy, check out [Warhammer horror](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Warhammer_Horror) especially [the vampire Genevieve](https://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Drachenfels_(Novel)). If you’re okay with grimdark science military science fiction, a good chunk of the Warhammer 40k and Horus Heresy lines will fit your bill.\n
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          "@noctisatrae@beehaw.org"
          "@Kajo@beehaw.org"
        ]
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2098}
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1704496394 {#3059
      date: 2024-01-06 00:13:14.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2037 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: null
  +root: null
  +body: """
    If you want more grimdark and it has to be fantasy, check out [Warhammer horror](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Warhammer_Horror) especially [the vampire Genevieve](https://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Drachenfels_(Novel)). If you’re okay with grimdark science military science fiction, a good chunk of the Warhammer 40k and Horus Heresy lines will fit your bill.\n
    \n
    I feel like Hobb is much lighter. For whatever reason I always think of Tad Williams and the Dragonborn Chair as connected to Hobb. I suspect it’s from the [Legends](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legends_(anthology)) anthology but they were only together in [Legends II](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legends_II_(anthology)) with a different Hobb trilogy setting and Otherland for Williams. Both are great starting points to find authors that have huge bodies of work that could hook you. They were how I found George RR Martin back in the early aughties.
    """
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  +mentions: [
    "@noctisatrae@beehaw.org"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2063 …}
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}
 
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52 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2098
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2036
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#3038 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2037 …}
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    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3001 …}
    +slug: "Help-me-find-a-book-series-like-The-Witcher-or"
    +title: "Help me find a book series like The Witcher or Assassin's Appentice, I need to forget this world right now! Go to town with recommendations!"
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2031
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2036 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2037 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144 …}
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        +body: """
          He added a midquel, *Port of Shadows*, in 2018, and there are some really good shorts you can find in his *Best of* collections that are also recent. I’ve found a lot of folks who read them back when have missed these!\n
          \n
          I feel like this is a great rec because The Witcher is pretty grimdark and Cook is a grimdark progenitor. Good pick!
          """
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          "@Kajo@beehaw.org"
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1704496394 {#3059
      date: 2024-01-06 00:13:14.0 +01:00
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     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2037 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: null
  +root: null
  +body: """
    If you want more grimdark and it has to be fantasy, check out [Warhammer horror](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Warhammer_Horror) especially [the vampire Genevieve](https://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Drachenfels_(Novel)). If you’re okay with grimdark science military science fiction, a good chunk of the Warhammer 40k and Horus Heresy lines will fit your bill.\n
    \n
    I feel like Hobb is much lighter. For whatever reason I always think of Tad Williams and the Dragonborn Chair as connected to Hobb. I suspect it’s from the [Legends](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legends_(anthology)) anthology but they were only together in [Legends II](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legends_II_(anthology)) with a different Hobb trilogy setting and Otherland for Williams. Both are great starting points to find authors that have huge bodies of work that could hook you. They were how I found George RR Martin back in the early aughties.
    """
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53 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
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54 DENIED moderate 
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1910
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#3073 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1906 …}
  +image: null
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3001 …}
  +slug: "Uid-gid-in-docker-containers-don-t-match-the-uid-gid-on-the"
  +title: "Uid/gid in docker containers don't match the uid/gid on the server?"
  +url: null
  +body: """
    Installed a new debian server, installed docker, but then now i have a problem with permissions on passed directories.\n
    \n
    On the previous server, the uid/gids inside the docker container match the uid/gid on the real server.\n
    \n
    Root is 0, www-data is 33, and so on.\n
    \n
    On this new server, instead, files owned by root (0) in the container are translated to 1000 on the server, www-data (33) is 100032, and so on (+1000 appended to the uid)\n
    \n
    Is this normal or did I misconfigure something? On the previous server I was running everything as root (the interactive user was root), and i would like to avoid that
    """
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    date: 2024-03-24 22:07:57.0 +01:00
  }
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  +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3110 …}
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    App\Entity\EntryComment {#2383
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      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1910 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1906 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
      +body: """
        This is really dependent on whether or not you want to interact with mounted volumes. In a production setting, containers are ephemeral and should essentially never be touched. Data is abstracted into stores like a database or object storage. If you’re interacting with mounted volumes, it’s usually through a different layer of abstraction like Kibana reading Elastic indices. In a self-hosted setting, you might be sidestepping dependency hell on a local system by containerizing. Data is often tightly coupled to the local filesystem. It is much easier to match the container user to the desired local user to avoid constant `sudo` calls.\n
        \n
        I had to check the community before responding. Since we’re talking self-hosted, your advice is largely overkill.
        """
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        "@Moonrise2473@feddit.it"
        "@Dirk@lemmy.ml"
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55 DENIED edit 
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1910
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  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3001 …}
  +slug: "Uid-gid-in-docker-containers-don-t-match-the-uid-gid-on-the"
  +title: "Uid/gid in docker containers don't match the uid/gid on the server?"
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  +body: """
    Installed a new debian server, installed docker, but then now i have a problem with permissions on passed directories.\n
    \n
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    Root is 0, www-data is 33, and so on.\n
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    \n
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    """
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        This is really dependent on whether or not you want to interact with mounted volumes. In a production setting, containers are ephemeral and should essentially never be touched. Data is abstracted into stores like a database or object storage. If you’re interacting with mounted volumes, it’s usually through a different layer of abstraction like Kibana reading Elastic indices. In a self-hosted setting, you might be sidestepping dependency hell on a local system by containerizing. Data is often tightly coupled to the local filesystem. It is much easier to match the container user to the desired local user to avoid constant `sudo` calls.\n
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        I had to check the community before responding. Since we’re talking self-hosted, your advice is largely overkill.
        """
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56 DENIED moderate 
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  +title: "Uid/gid in docker containers don't match the uid/gid on the server?"
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    Installed a new debian server, installed docker, but then now i have a problem with permissions on passed directories.\n
    \n
    On the previous server, the uid/gids inside the docker container match the uid/gid on the real server.\n
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    Root is 0, www-data is 33, and so on.\n
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        This is really dependent on whether or not you want to interact with mounted volumes. In a production setting, containers are ephemeral and should essentially never be touched. Data is abstracted into stores like a database or object storage. If you’re interacting with mounted volumes, it’s usually through a different layer of abstraction like Kibana reading Elastic indices. In a self-hosted setting, you might be sidestepping dependency hell on a local system by containerizing. Data is often tightly coupled to the local filesystem. It is much easier to match the container user to the desired local user to avoid constant `sudo` calls.\n
        \n
        I had to check the community before responding. Since we’re talking self-hosted, your advice is largely overkill.
        """
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Show voter details
57 DENIED ROLE_USER 
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58 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2383
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    +body: """
      Installed a new debian server, installed docker, but then now i have a problem with permissions on passed directories.\n
      \n
      On the previous server, the uid/gids inside the docker container match the uid/gid on the real server.\n
      \n
      Root is 0, www-data is 33, and so on.\n
      \n
      On this new server, instead, files owned by root (0) in the container are translated to 1000 on the server, www-data (33) is 100032, and so on (+1000 appended to the uid)\n
      \n
      Is this normal or did I misconfigure something? On the previous server I was running everything as root (the interactive user was root), and i would like to avoid that
      """
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      date: 2024-01-02 11:43:41.0 +01:00
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     …2
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    This is really dependent on whether or not you want to interact with mounted volumes. In a production setting, containers are ephemeral and should essentially never be touched. Data is abstracted into stores like a database or object storage. If you’re interacting with mounted volumes, it’s usually through a different layer of abstraction like Kibana reading Elastic indices. In a self-hosted setting, you might be sidestepping dependency hell on a local system by containerizing. Data is often tightly coupled to the local filesystem. It is much easier to match the container user to the desired local user to avoid constant `sudo` calls.\n
    \n
    I had to check the community before responding. Since we’re talking self-hosted, your advice is largely overkill.
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    "@Dirk@lemmy.ml"
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  +"title": 276519
}
 
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Show voter details
59 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2383
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    +body: """
      Installed a new debian server, installed docker, but then now i have a problem with permissions on passed directories.\n
      \n
      On the previous server, the uid/gids inside the docker container match the uid/gid on the real server.\n
      \n
      Root is 0, www-data is 33, and so on.\n
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      Is this normal or did I misconfigure something? On the previous server I was running everything as root (the interactive user was root), and i would like to avoid that
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     …2
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    This is really dependent on whether or not you want to interact with mounted volumes. In a production setting, containers are ephemeral and should essentially never be touched. Data is abstracted into stores like a database or object storage. If you’re interacting with mounted volumes, it’s usually through a different layer of abstraction like Kibana reading Elastic indices. In a self-hosted setting, you might be sidestepping dependency hell on a local system by containerizing. Data is often tightly coupled to the local filesystem. It is much easier to match the container user to the desired local user to avoid constant `sudo` calls.\n
    \n
    I had to check the community before responding. Since we’re talking self-hosted, your advice is largely overkill.
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    "@Moonrise2473@feddit.it"
    "@Dirk@lemmy.ml"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1708 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1410 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1907 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1407 …}
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  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2369 …}
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    date: 2024-01-03 15:31:54.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 276519
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
60 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2383
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1910
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#3073 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1906 …}
    +image: null
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3001 …}
    +slug: "Uid-gid-in-docker-containers-don-t-match-the-uid-gid-on-the"
    +title: "Uid/gid in docker containers don't match the uid/gid on the server?"
    +url: null
    +body: """
      Installed a new debian server, installed docker, but then now i have a problem with permissions on passed directories.\n
      \n
      On the previous server, the uid/gids inside the docker container match the uid/gid on the real server.\n
      \n
      Root is 0, www-data is 33, and so on.\n
      \n
      On this new server, instead, files owned by root (0) in the container are translated to 1000 on the server, www-data (33) is 100032, and so on (+1000 appended to the uid)\n
      \n
      Is this normal or did I misconfigure something? On the previous server I was running everything as root (the interactive user was root), and i would like to avoid that
      """
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      date: 2024-03-24 22:07:57.0 +01:00
    }
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    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3110 …}
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      App\Entity\EntryComment {#2383}
    ]
    -id: 26687
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    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1704278621
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://feddit.it/post/4513735"
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1704192221 {#3094
      date: 2024-01-02 11:43:41.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1906 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1909 …}
  +body: """
    This is really dependent on whether or not you want to interact with mounted volumes. In a production setting, containers are ephemeral and should essentially never be touched. Data is abstracted into stores like a database or object storage. If you’re interacting with mounted volumes, it’s usually through a different layer of abstraction like Kibana reading Elastic indices. In a self-hosted setting, you might be sidestepping dependency hell on a local system by containerizing. Data is often tightly coupled to the local filesystem. It is much easier to match the container user to the desired local user to avoid constant `sudo` calls.\n
    \n
    I had to check the community before responding. Since we’re talking self-hosted, your advice is largely overkill.
    """
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    "@Moonrise2473@feddit.it"
    "@Dirk@lemmy.ml"
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  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1708 …}
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  +"title": 276519
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
61 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
62 DENIED moderate 
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2363
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#3091 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2370 …}
  +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3128 …}
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3130 …}
  +slug: "State-flags"
  +title: "State flags"
  +url: "https://startrek.website/pictrs/image/14aa7fbf-d1a0-4d3c-8eb6-6b44b3b7289e.jpeg"
  +body: null
  +type: "image"
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    date: 2024-02-23 14:33:03.0 +01:00
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  +ip: null
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  +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3131 …}
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  +children: [
    App\Entity\EntryComment {#2371
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2363 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2370 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: null
      +root: null
      +body: "This is slightly misleading. The Kansas flag, for example, does have human toes hidden by dirt rather than shoes (or shoes if we do not assume the farmer is standing in the plowed rut). I question the selection methodology. Since there are readily visible hooves on the KS flag as well as hidden human toes, should we assume that all of the yellow states also have human toes hidden? We can’t because of, for example, California, which has bear toes and no human."
      +lang: "en"
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        "@The_Picard_Maneuver@startrek.website"
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      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2377 …}
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      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2384 …}
      -id: 241271
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        date: 2023-12-21 20:56:53.0 +01:00
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  ]
  -id: 23790
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  +ranking: 1703252396
  +visibility: "visible             "
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  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703165996 {#3111
    date: 2023-12-21 14:39:56.0 +01:00
  }
  +__isInitialized__: true
   …2
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
63 DENIED edit 
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2363
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#3091 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2370 …}
  +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3128 …}
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3130 …}
  +slug: "State-flags"
  +title: "State flags"
  +url: "https://startrek.website/pictrs/image/14aa7fbf-d1a0-4d3c-8eb6-6b44b3b7289e.jpeg"
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  +children: [
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      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2370 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: null
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      +body: "This is slightly misleading. The Kansas flag, for example, does have human toes hidden by dirt rather than shoes (or shoes if we do not assume the farmer is standing in the plowed rut). I question the selection methodology. Since there are readily visible hooves on the KS flag as well as hidden human toes, should we assume that all of the yellow states also have human toes hidden? We can’t because of, for example, California, which has bear toes and no human."
      +lang: "en"
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        "@The_Picard_Maneuver@startrek.website"
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      -id: 241271
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  ]
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  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703165996 {#3111
    date: 2023-12-21 14:39:56.0 +01:00
  }
  +__isInitialized__: true
   …2
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
64 DENIED moderate 
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2363
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#3091 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2370 …}
  +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3128 …}
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3130 …}
  +slug: "State-flags"
  +title: "State flags"
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      +image: null
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      +body: "This is slightly misleading. The Kansas flag, for example, does have human toes hidden by dirt rather than shoes (or shoes if we do not assume the farmer is standing in the plowed rut). I question the selection methodology. Since there are readily visible hooves on the KS flag as well as hidden human toes, should we assume that all of the yellow states also have human toes hidden? We can’t because of, for example, California, which has bear toes and no human."
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    date: 2023-12-21 14:39:56.0 +01:00
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  +__isInitialized__: true
   …2
}
 
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Show voter details
65 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
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66 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2371
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     …2
  }
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  +body: "This is slightly misleading. The Kansas flag, for example, does have human toes hidden by dirt rather than shoes (or shoes if we do not assume the farmer is standing in the plowed rut). I question the selection methodology. Since there are readily visible hooves on the KS flag as well as hidden human toes, should we assume that all of the yellow states also have human toes hidden? We can’t because of, for example, California, which has bear toes and no human."
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}
 
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Show voter details
67 DENIED edit 
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     …2
  }
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  +image: null
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  +body: "This is slightly misleading. The Kansas flag, for example, does have human toes hidden by dirt rather than shoes (or shoes if we do not assume the farmer is standing in the plowed rut). I question the selection methodology. Since there are readily visible hooves on the KS flag as well as hidden human toes, should we assume that all of the yellow states also have human toes hidden? We can’t because of, for example, California, which has bear toes and no human."
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  -id: 241271
  -bodyTs: "'also':65 'assum':26,58 'bear':80 'california':77 'dirt':16 'exampl':9,76 'farmer':28 'flag':7,49 'hidden':14,53,69 'hoov':45 'human':12,54,67,84 'kansa':6 'ks':48 'methodolog':39 'mislead':4 'plow':33 'question':36 'rather':17 'readili':43 'rut':34 'select':38 'shoe':19,21 'sinc':40 'slight':3 'stand':30 'state':64 'toe':13,55,68,81 'visibl':44 'well':51 'yellow':63"
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  +"title": 241271
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
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Show voter details
68 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2371
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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     …2
  }
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  +image: null
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  +body: "This is slightly misleading. The Kansas flag, for example, does have human toes hidden by dirt rather than shoes (or shoes if we do not assume the farmer is standing in the plowed rut). I question the selection methodology. Since there are readily visible hooves on the KS flag as well as hidden human toes, should we assume that all of the yellow states also have human toes hidden? We can’t because of, for example, California, which has bear toes and no human."
  +lang: "en"
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  -id: 241271
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}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
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Show voter details
69 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
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70 DENIED moderate 
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2999 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
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  +slug: "Why-in-the-year-2024-and-with-all-the-knowledge"
  +title: "Why in the year 2024 and with all the knowledge humans have now do people still believe in religion?"
  +url: null
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    7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2344
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2141 …}
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      +body: """
        This is a fundamental misunderstanding of Russell’s Teapot. If someone claims there is a teapot floating in space, cool, they need to prove its existence and the rest of us can go around as if one doesn’t exist. If someone claims there isn’t a teapot floating in space, now the burden of proof is on them. We can quickly exercise some critical thinking and realize that, while there might be a teapot in space someone brought with them and left, it’s not going to be beyond the asteroid belt.\n
        \n
        Now do every belief system with empirical evidence. You can’t, primarily because belief in the logic used to prove that empirical evidence is the best evidence is itself a belief system. Changing any one of the axioms that underpin your methodology completely changes the methodology (eg parallel lines meet at infinity turns geometry into hyperbolic geometry). Furthermore, we can extend Gödel’s incompleteness theorems to any formal system, like you’re attempting to employ, and show that they can’t prove themselves.\n
        \n
        In other words, we must take things on faith if we want to use logic and pull out statement related to logic like “burden of proof is on the positive.” You can believe whatever the fuck you want; you just can’t prove it and, in most metaphysical cases, you can’t disprove it either.
        """
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        "@return2ozma@lemmy.world"
        "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
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      +ranking: 0
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        date: 2024-01-15 19:36:52.0 +01:00
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      +"title": 311420
    }
    6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2340
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2341 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
      +body: """
        Again, fundamental misunderstanding of Russell’s Teapot. You’re attempting to talk about proof, using the language of logic, to make sweeping claims that logic cannot make.\n
        \n
        If you’re saying we can neither prove nor disprove the metaphysical, we’re on the same page.\n
        \n
        If you’re saying the metaphysical doesn’t exist because no one has proved it and they have to prove it first, you don’t understand how logic, as we understand it today, works.\n
        \n
        Edit: to highlight your issues a little, “it doesn’t exist because it doesn’t exist” isn’t logically sound. Unlike Russell’s Teapot, circular logic is an actual, provable fallacy rather than a rhetorical tool *that is not a result of logic*. More importantly, you’re depending on *logic as a system of faith*, just like religion, unless you’ve found some results that contradict Gödel and company. We’ve made all of it up and, with our understanding today, it is not objective.
        """
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        "@return2ozma@lemmy.world"
        "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
        "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
        "@return2ozma@lemmy.world"
        "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
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        date: 2024-08-22 04:21:46.0 +02:00
      }
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705351922 {#2334
        date: 2024-01-15 21:52:02.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 311745
    }
    5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2072
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2069 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
      +body: """
        You’re very focused on religion and seem to be missing all of the points about logic.\n
        \n
        > not saying that … pretty agnostic\n
        \n
        Cool, we’re on the same page.\n
        \n
        > If someone makes a claim… it needs… evidence\n
        \n
        This is problematic without a rigorous definition of evidence. I’m assuming you mean something along the lines of repeatable and independently verifiable since you won’t take a claim at face value. If you’re going to rigorously define evidence, you’re going to need to create a system that can’t contradict itself. Per your quotes, either there is a ball in my hand or there isn’t.\n
        \n
        This is called [a consistent system](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consistency). We agree on a set of axioms that we will achieve results from. If we have a consistent system and build a bunch of results on top of that, eventually we’ll run into things that are true but we cannot prove. We know this [because of a famous result I’ve already mentioned](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del%27s_incompleteness_theorems). In other words, we must take central results on faith. A common one that, several decades ago, was met with ridicule because it was “so illogical” mathematicians had “suspend reality in order for it to make any sense” is [the axiom of choice](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axiom_of_choice).\n
        \n
        In other words, you can’t use logic and reason to say those that believe in religion are idiots because you have just as much proof as they do (just faith) if we accept the basic axioms that drive our logical system.\n
        \n
        > doesn’t exist because it doesn’t exist… isn’t circular logic\n
        \n
        You’re conflating [a tautology](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tautology_(logic)) with [circular reasoning](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning). Circular reasoning boils down to “A because B; B because A;” and you’ve said “A because A” without any support for A. The lack of something in your hand is not necessary and sufficient to prove the ball’s existence. The only claim we can make is that your hand is empty.\n
        \n
        Here is a metaphysical claim for you to chew on: it is possible to know whether or not it is possible to prove a claim.
        """
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      +ranking: 0
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      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705361715 {#2068
        date: 2024-01-16 00:35:15.0 +01:00
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      +"title": 312133
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    4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2057
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2050 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
      +body: "All of this continues to go past you. You want to attack the metaphysical for its belief system yet you completely miss when you make the same logical leaps for yours. How can insurance companies prove something? Why are they *right*? If a court makes a decision, is that the *correct* one? Prove it. Only you can’t use logic or anything that comes from logical systems because, based on your attacks on religion, you’re not allowed to use the faith to prove the faith."
      +lang: "en"
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        date: 2024-01-16 06:08:38.0 +01:00
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        "@return2ozma@lemmy.world"
        "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
        "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
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      +ranking: 0
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      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705381718 {#2045
        date: 2024-01-16 06:08:38.0 +01:00
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      +"title": 312795
    }
    3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2101
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2102 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
      +body: """
        You haven’t shown that an insurance decision is correct. You also didn’t show that a court decision is right. You’re not seeing the forest for the trees.\n
        \n
        Your faith is that evidence trumps all. That is a baseless claim unless you can prove it *without the structures of evidence-based discourse*. You are using logic to prove your statements which is logically equivalent to “god said so.” You argue your beliefs trump theirs; you are equivalent using your foundation. Your religion is logic which, as I have pointed out many times without comment from you, is just as made up as any religion and more importantly has the introspective capabilities to prove so.\n
        \n
        This is a fairly straightforward epistemological argument; I’ve run out of ways to say it. Good luck!
        """
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        "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
        "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
      ]
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        date: 2024-01-16 17:22:56.0 +01:00
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      +"title": 314135
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    2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2123
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
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      +body: "You can’t explain logic so I’m not sure you have an understanding of the arguments you’re attempting to make. I’m not seeing any justification other than “I think it’s it right.” I’ve seen no counters to the quantitative philosophical propositions and a general lack of understanding of any of the things that underpin your belief system. You still haven’t explained why your system is *right*."
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        "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
        "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
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      +ranking: 0
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        date: 2024-01-16 21:30:27.0 +01:00
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    1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2198
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2223 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
      +body: """
        If it is so self-evident, you should be able to explain why your faith in evidence trumps anyone else’s faith in anything else. You don’t know why you believe what you believe and you’re completely incapable (so far, based on the evidence you’ve provided) of doing anything beyond “James Randi says it so it must be true.” You seem to blindly believe anything anyone in a position of authority states (courts, insurance always right provided they have a modicum of evidence to support their claim). You pound the “evidence trumps everything” pulpit yet can’t explain why, logically, that might make sense.\n
        \n
        You remind me of the evangelicals I’m also not a fan of.
        """
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        date: 2024-01-17 00:58:46.0 +01:00
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        "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
        "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
      ]
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      +ranking: 0
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        date: 2024-01-17 00:58:46.0 +01:00
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      +"title": 315410
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    0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2311
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2298 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
      +body: """
        Why are 1 and 3 the correct options? Why are they even correct? Why is 2 wrong? You don’t seem to realize any of the foundation you’re building on and you’ve done nothing other than say “if I provide evidence,” that’s enough.\n
        \n
        Here’s a thought experiment. I take you into a closed room, put purple film over a window, and tell you the sky is purple. You’ve now got irrefutable proof that the sky is purple. But wait, you say! I can go outside and find different evidence, so clearly *having evidence alone is not enough*. We could even sidestep the problem by saying that the sky is colorless; it’s the refraction of the light that makes the color. Different frame; different counter.\n
        \n
        So why are you right? Why is your frame correct?
        """
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        "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
        "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
      ]
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      -id: 315804
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  ]
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71 DENIED edit 
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  +slug: "Why-in-the-year-2024-and-with-all-the-knowledge"
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  +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3051 …}
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    7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2344
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2141 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
      +body: """
        This is a fundamental misunderstanding of Russell’s Teapot. If someone claims there is a teapot floating in space, cool, they need to prove its existence and the rest of us can go around as if one doesn’t exist. If someone claims there isn’t a teapot floating in space, now the burden of proof is on them. We can quickly exercise some critical thinking and realize that, while there might be a teapot in space someone brought with them and left, it’s not going to be beyond the asteroid belt.\n
        \n
        Now do every belief system with empirical evidence. You can’t, primarily because belief in the logic used to prove that empirical evidence is the best evidence is itself a belief system. Changing any one of the axioms that underpin your methodology completely changes the methodology (eg parallel lines meet at infinity turns geometry into hyperbolic geometry). Furthermore, we can extend Gödel’s incompleteness theorems to any formal system, like you’re attempting to employ, and show that they can’t prove themselves.\n
        \n
        In other words, we must take things on faith if we want to use logic and pull out statement related to logic like “burden of proof is on the positive.” You can believe whatever the fuck you want; you just can’t prove it and, in most metaphysical cases, you can’t disprove it either.
        """
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        "@return2ozma@lemmy.world"
        "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
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        date: 2024-01-15 19:36:52.0 +01:00
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    6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2340
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
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      +body: """
        Again, fundamental misunderstanding of Russell’s Teapot. You’re attempting to talk about proof, using the language of logic, to make sweeping claims that logic cannot make.\n
        \n
        If you’re saying we can neither prove nor disprove the metaphysical, we’re on the same page.\n
        \n
        If you’re saying the metaphysical doesn’t exist because no one has proved it and they have to prove it first, you don’t understand how logic, as we understand it today, works.\n
        \n
        Edit: to highlight your issues a little, “it doesn’t exist because it doesn’t exist” isn’t logically sound. Unlike Russell’s Teapot, circular logic is an actual, provable fallacy rather than a rhetorical tool *that is not a result of logic*. More importantly, you’re depending on *logic as a system of faith*, just like religion, unless you’ve found some results that contradict Gödel and company. We’ve made all of it up and, with our understanding today, it is not objective.
        """
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        "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
        "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
        "@return2ozma@lemmy.world"
        "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
        "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
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        date: 2024-08-22 04:21:46.0 +02:00
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        date: 2024-01-15 21:52:02.0 +01:00
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    5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2072
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
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      +body: """
        You’re very focused on religion and seem to be missing all of the points about logic.\n
        \n
        > not saying that … pretty agnostic\n
        \n
        Cool, we’re on the same page.\n
        \n
        > If someone makes a claim… it needs… evidence\n
        \n
        This is problematic without a rigorous definition of evidence. I’m assuming you mean something along the lines of repeatable and independently verifiable since you won’t take a claim at face value. If you’re going to rigorously define evidence, you’re going to need to create a system that can’t contradict itself. Per your quotes, either there is a ball in my hand or there isn’t.\n
        \n
        This is called [a consistent system](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consistency). We agree on a set of axioms that we will achieve results from. If we have a consistent system and build a bunch of results on top of that, eventually we’ll run into things that are true but we cannot prove. We know this [because of a famous result I’ve already mentioned](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del%27s_incompleteness_theorems). In other words, we must take central results on faith. A common one that, several decades ago, was met with ridicule because it was “so illogical” mathematicians had “suspend reality in order for it to make any sense” is [the axiom of choice](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axiom_of_choice).\n
        \n
        In other words, you can’t use logic and reason to say those that believe in religion are idiots because you have just as much proof as they do (just faith) if we accept the basic axioms that drive our logical system.\n
        \n
        > doesn’t exist because it doesn’t exist… isn’t circular logic\n
        \n
        You’re conflating [a tautology](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tautology_(logic)) with [circular reasoning](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning). Circular reasoning boils down to “A because B; B because A;” and you’ve said “A because A” without any support for A. The lack of something in your hand is not necessary and sufficient to prove the ball’s existence. The only claim we can make is that your hand is empty.\n
        \n
        Here is a metaphysical claim for you to chew on: it is possible to know whether or not it is possible to prove a claim.
        """
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        date: 2024-01-16 00:35:15.0 +01:00
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    4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2057
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2050 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
      +body: "All of this continues to go past you. You want to attack the metaphysical for its belief system yet you completely miss when you make the same logical leaps for yours. How can insurance companies prove something? Why are they *right*? If a court makes a decision, is that the *correct* one? Prove it. Only you can’t use logic or anything that comes from logical systems because, based on your attacks on religion, you’re not allowed to use the faith to prove the faith."
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        date: 2024-01-16 06:08:38.0 +01:00
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        "@return2ozma@lemmy.world"
        "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
        "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
      ]
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        date: 2024-01-16 06:08:38.0 +01:00
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      +"title": 312795
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    3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2101
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2102 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
      +body: """
        You haven’t shown that an insurance decision is correct. You also didn’t show that a court decision is right. You’re not seeing the forest for the trees.\n
        \n
        Your faith is that evidence trumps all. That is a baseless claim unless you can prove it *without the structures of evidence-based discourse*. You are using logic to prove your statements which is logically equivalent to “god said so.” You argue your beliefs trump theirs; you are equivalent using your foundation. Your religion is logic which, as I have pointed out many times without comment from you, is just as made up as any religion and more importantly has the introspective capabilities to prove so.\n
        \n
        This is a fairly straightforward epistemological argument; I’ve run out of ways to say it. Good luck!
        """
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        date: 2024-01-16 17:22:56.0 +01:00
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        "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
        "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
      ]
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        date: 2024-01-16 17:22:56.0 +01:00
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      +"title": 314135
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    2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2123
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      +body: "You can’t explain logic so I’m not sure you have an understanding of the arguments you’re attempting to make. I’m not seeing any justification other than “I think it’s it right.” I’ve seen no counters to the quantitative philosophical propositions and a general lack of understanding of any of the things that underpin your belief system. You still haven’t explained why your system is *right*."
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        "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
        "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
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        date: 2024-01-16 21:30:27.0 +01:00
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    1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2198
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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      +body: """
        If it is so self-evident, you should be able to explain why your faith in evidence trumps anyone else’s faith in anything else. You don’t know why you believe what you believe and you’re completely incapable (so far, based on the evidence you’ve provided) of doing anything beyond “James Randi says it so it must be true.” You seem to blindly believe anything anyone in a position of authority states (courts, insurance always right provided they have a modicum of evidence to support their claim). You pound the “evidence trumps everything” pulpit yet can’t explain why, logically, that might make sense.\n
        \n
        You remind me of the evangelicals I’m also not a fan of.
        """
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        "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
        "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
      ]
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      +apId: "https://programming.dev/comment/6532393"
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      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705449526 {#2224
        date: 2024-01-17 00:58:46.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 315410
    }
    0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2311
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2298 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
      +body: """
        Why are 1 and 3 the correct options? Why are they even correct? Why is 2 wrong? You don’t seem to realize any of the foundation you’re building on and you’ve done nothing other than say “if I provide evidence,” that’s enough.\n
        \n
        Here’s a thought experiment. I take you into a closed room, put purple film over a window, and tell you the sky is purple. You’ve now got irrefutable proof that the sky is purple. But wait, you say! I can go outside and find different evidence, so clearly *having evidence alone is not enough*. We could even sidestep the problem by saying that the sky is colorless; it’s the refraction of the light that makes the color. Different frame; different counter.\n
        \n
        So why are you right? Why is your frame correct?
        """
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        date: 2024-01-17 04:14:38.0 +01:00
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        "@return2ozma@lemmy.world"
        "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
        "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
      ]
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    date: 2024-01-15 10:42:04.0 +01:00
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   …2
}
 
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Show voter details
72 DENIED moderate 
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2999 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
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  +slug: "Why-in-the-year-2024-and-with-all-the-knowledge"
  +title: "Why in the year 2024 and with all the knowledge humans have now do people still believe in religion?"
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    7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2344
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2141 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
      +body: """
        This is a fundamental misunderstanding of Russell’s Teapot. If someone claims there is a teapot floating in space, cool, they need to prove its existence and the rest of us can go around as if one doesn’t exist. If someone claims there isn’t a teapot floating in space, now the burden of proof is on them. We can quickly exercise some critical thinking and realize that, while there might be a teapot in space someone brought with them and left, it’s not going to be beyond the asteroid belt.\n
        \n
        Now do every belief system with empirical evidence. You can’t, primarily because belief in the logic used to prove that empirical evidence is the best evidence is itself a belief system. Changing any one of the axioms that underpin your methodology completely changes the methodology (eg parallel lines meet at infinity turns geometry into hyperbolic geometry). Furthermore, we can extend Gödel’s incompleteness theorems to any formal system, like you’re attempting to employ, and show that they can’t prove themselves.\n
        \n
        In other words, we must take things on faith if we want to use logic and pull out statement related to logic like “burden of proof is on the positive.” You can believe whatever the fuck you want; you just can’t prove it and, in most metaphysical cases, you can’t disprove it either.
        """
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        date: 2024-01-15 19:36:52.0 +01:00
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    6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2340
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
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      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2341 …}
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      +body: """
        Again, fundamental misunderstanding of Russell’s Teapot. You’re attempting to talk about proof, using the language of logic, to make sweeping claims that logic cannot make.\n
        \n
        If you’re saying we can neither prove nor disprove the metaphysical, we’re on the same page.\n
        \n
        If you’re saying the metaphysical doesn’t exist because no one has proved it and they have to prove it first, you don’t understand how logic, as we understand it today, works.\n
        \n
        Edit: to highlight your issues a little, “it doesn’t exist because it doesn’t exist” isn’t logically sound. Unlike Russell’s Teapot, circular logic is an actual, provable fallacy rather than a rhetorical tool *that is not a result of logic*. More importantly, you’re depending on *logic as a system of faith*, just like religion, unless you’ve found some results that contradict Gödel and company. We’ve made all of it up and, with our understanding today, it is not objective.
        """
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        "@return2ozma@lemmy.world"
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        "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
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        date: 2024-08-22 04:21:46.0 +02:00
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        date: 2024-01-15 21:52:02.0 +01:00
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      +"title": 311745
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    5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2072
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2069 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
      +body: """
        You’re very focused on religion and seem to be missing all of the points about logic.\n
        \n
        > not saying that … pretty agnostic\n
        \n
        Cool, we’re on the same page.\n
        \n
        > If someone makes a claim… it needs… evidence\n
        \n
        This is problematic without a rigorous definition of evidence. I’m assuming you mean something along the lines of repeatable and independently verifiable since you won’t take a claim at face value. If you’re going to rigorously define evidence, you’re going to need to create a system that can’t contradict itself. Per your quotes, either there is a ball in my hand or there isn’t.\n
        \n
        This is called [a consistent system](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consistency). We agree on a set of axioms that we will achieve results from. If we have a consistent system and build a bunch of results on top of that, eventually we’ll run into things that are true but we cannot prove. We know this [because of a famous result I’ve already mentioned](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del%27s_incompleteness_theorems). In other words, we must take central results on faith. A common one that, several decades ago, was met with ridicule because it was “so illogical” mathematicians had “suspend reality in order for it to make any sense” is [the axiom of choice](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axiom_of_choice).\n
        \n
        In other words, you can’t use logic and reason to say those that believe in religion are idiots because you have just as much proof as they do (just faith) if we accept the basic axioms that drive our logical system.\n
        \n
        > doesn’t exist because it doesn’t exist… isn’t circular logic\n
        \n
        You’re conflating [a tautology](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tautology_(logic)) with [circular reasoning](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning). Circular reasoning boils down to “A because B; B because A;” and you’ve said “A because A” without any support for A. The lack of something in your hand is not necessary and sufficient to prove the ball’s existence. The only claim we can make is that your hand is empty.\n
        \n
        Here is a metaphysical claim for you to chew on: it is possible to know whether or not it is possible to prove a claim.
        """
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        date: 2024-01-16 00:35:15.0 +01:00
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    4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2057
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      +body: "All of this continues to go past you. You want to attack the metaphysical for its belief system yet you completely miss when you make the same logical leaps for yours. How can insurance companies prove something? Why are they *right*? If a court makes a decision, is that the *correct* one? Prove it. Only you can’t use logic or anything that comes from logical systems because, based on your attacks on religion, you’re not allowed to use the faith to prove the faith."
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        "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
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        date: 2024-01-16 06:08:38.0 +01:00
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      +"title": 312795
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    3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2101
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
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      +body: """
        You haven’t shown that an insurance decision is correct. You also didn’t show that a court decision is right. You’re not seeing the forest for the trees.\n
        \n
        Your faith is that evidence trumps all. That is a baseless claim unless you can prove it *without the structures of evidence-based discourse*. You are using logic to prove your statements which is logically equivalent to “god said so.” You argue your beliefs trump theirs; you are equivalent using your foundation. Your religion is logic which, as I have pointed out many times without comment from you, is just as made up as any religion and more importantly has the introspective capabilities to prove so.\n
        \n
        This is a fairly straightforward epistemological argument; I’ve run out of ways to say it. Good luck!
        """
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        "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
        "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
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      -id: 314135
      -bodyTs: "'also':12 'argu':73 'argument':124 'base':54 'baseless':41 'belief':75 'capabl':114 'claim':42 'comment':97 'correct':10 'court':18 'decis':8,19 'didn':13 'discours':55 'epistemolog':123 'equival':67,80 'evid':35,53 'evidence-bas':52 'fair':121 'faith':32 'forest':27 'foundat':83 'god':69 'good':134 'haven':2 'import':110 'insur':7 'introspect':113 'logic':59,66,87 'luck':135 'made':103 'mani':94 'point':92 'prove':46,61,116 're':23 'religion':85,107 'right':21 'run':127 'said':70 'say':132 'see':25 'show':15 'shown':4 'statement':63 'straightforward':122 'structur':50 'time':95 'tree':30 'trump':36,76 'unless':43 'use':58,81 've':126 'way':130 'without':48,96"
      +ranking: 0
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        date: 2024-01-16 17:22:56.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 314135
    }
    2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2123
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2119 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
      +body: "You can’t explain logic so I’m not sure you have an understanding of the arguments you’re attempting to make. I’m not seeing any justification other than “I think it’s it right.” I’ve seen no counters to the quantitative philosophical propositions and a general lack of understanding of any of the things that underpin your belief system. You still haven’t explained why your system is *right*."
      +lang: "en"
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        date: 2024-01-16 21:30:27.0 +01:00
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        "@return2ozma@lemmy.world"
        "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
        "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
      ]
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      +ranking: 0
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        date: 2024-01-16 21:30:27.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 314857
    }
    1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2198
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2223 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
      +body: """
        If it is so self-evident, you should be able to explain why your faith in evidence trumps anyone else’s faith in anything else. You don’t know why you believe what you believe and you’re completely incapable (so far, based on the evidence you’ve provided) of doing anything beyond “James Randi says it so it must be true.” You seem to blindly believe anything anyone in a position of authority states (courts, insurance always right provided they have a modicum of evidence to support their claim). You pound the “evidence trumps everything” pulpit yet can’t explain why, logically, that might make sense.\n
        \n
        You remind me of the evangelicals I’m also not a fan of.
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 0
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1705449526 {#2215
        date: 2024-01-17 00:58:46.0 +01:00
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        "@return2ozma@lemmy.world"
        "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
        "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2227 …}
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      -id: 315410
      -bodyTs: "'abl':11 'also':117 'alway':79 'anyon':20,70 'anyth':25,53,69 'author':75 'base':44 'believ':33,36,68 'beyond':54 'blind':67 'claim':91 'complet':40 'court':77 'els':21,26 'evangel':114 'everyth':97 'evid':7,18,47,87,95 'explain':13,102 'faith':16,23 'fan':120 'far':43 'incap':41 'insur':78 'jame':55 'know':30 'logic':104 'm':116 'make':107 'might':106 'modicum':85 'must':61 'posit':73 'pound':93 'provid':50,81 'pulpit':98 'randi':56 're':39 'remind':110 'right':80 'say':57 'seem':65 'self':6 'self-evid':5 'sens':108 'state':76 'support':89 'true':63 'trump':19,96 've':49 'yet':99"
      +ranking: 0
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        date: 2024-01-17 00:58:46.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 315410
    }
    0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2311
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2298 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
      +body: """
        Why are 1 and 3 the correct options? Why are they even correct? Why is 2 wrong? You don’t seem to realize any of the foundation you’re building on and you’ve done nothing other than say “if I provide evidence,” that’s enough.\n
        \n
        Here’s a thought experiment. I take you into a closed room, put purple film over a window, and tell you the sky is purple. You’ve now got irrefutable proof that the sky is purple. But wait, you say! I can go outside and find different evidence, so clearly *having evidence alone is not enough*. We could even sidestep the problem by saying that the sky is colorless; it’s the refraction of the light that makes the color. Different frame; different counter.\n
        \n
        So why are you right? Why is your frame correct?
        """
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        date: 2024-01-17 04:14:38.0 +01:00
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        "@return2ozma@lemmy.world"
        "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
        "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
        "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
      ]
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      -id: 315804
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        date: 2024-01-17 04:14:38.0 +01:00
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  ]
  -id: 30602
  -titleTs: "'2024':5 'believ':17 'human':11 'knowledg':10 'peopl':15 'religion':19 'still':16 'year':4"
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    date: 2024-01-15 10:42:04.0 +01:00
  }
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   …2
}
 
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#2344
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349
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    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
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    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3001 …}
    +slug: "Why-in-the-year-2024-and-with-all-the-knowledge"
    +title: "Why in the year 2024 and with all the knowledge humans have now do people still believe in religion?"
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      date: 2024-01-22 02:19:07.0 +01:00
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      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2344}
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2340
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: """
          Again, fundamental misunderstanding of Russell’s Teapot. You’re attempting to talk about proof, using the language of logic, to make sweeping claims that logic cannot make.\n
          \n
          If you’re saying we can neither prove nor disprove the metaphysical, we’re on the same page.\n
          \n
          If you’re saying the metaphysical doesn’t exist because no one has proved it and they have to prove it first, you don’t understand how logic, as we understand it today, works.\n
          \n
          Edit: to highlight your issues a little, “it doesn’t exist because it doesn’t exist” isn’t logically sound. Unlike Russell’s Teapot, circular logic is an actual, provable fallacy rather than a rhetorical tool *that is not a result of logic*. More importantly, you’re depending on *logic as a system of faith*, just like religion, unless you’ve found some results that contradict Gödel and company. We’ve made all of it up and, with our understanding today, it is not objective.
          """
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          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
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          date: 2024-08-22 04:21:46.0 +02:00
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          date: 2024-01-15 21:52:02.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 311745
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      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2072
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2069 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: """
          You’re very focused on religion and seem to be missing all of the points about logic.\n
          \n
          > not saying that … pretty agnostic\n
          \n
          Cool, we’re on the same page.\n
          \n
          > If someone makes a claim… it needs… evidence\n
          \n
          This is problematic without a rigorous definition of evidence. I’m assuming you mean something along the lines of repeatable and independently verifiable since you won’t take a claim at face value. If you’re going to rigorously define evidence, you’re going to need to create a system that can’t contradict itself. Per your quotes, either there is a ball in my hand or there isn’t.\n
          \n
          This is called [a consistent system](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consistency). We agree on a set of axioms that we will achieve results from. If we have a consistent system and build a bunch of results on top of that, eventually we’ll run into things that are true but we cannot prove. We know this [because of a famous result I’ve already mentioned](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del%27s_incompleteness_theorems). In other words, we must take central results on faith. A common one that, several decades ago, was met with ridicule because it was “so illogical” mathematicians had “suspend reality in order for it to make any sense” is [the axiom of choice](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axiom_of_choice).\n
          \n
          In other words, you can’t use logic and reason to say those that believe in religion are idiots because you have just as much proof as they do (just faith) if we accept the basic axioms that drive our logical system.\n
          \n
          > doesn’t exist because it doesn’t exist… isn’t circular logic\n
          \n
          You’re conflating [a tautology](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tautology_(logic)) with [circular reasoning](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning). Circular reasoning boils down to “A because B; B because A;” and you’ve said “A because A” without any support for A. The lack of something in your hand is not necessary and sufficient to prove the ball’s existence. The only claim we can make is that your hand is empty.\n
          \n
          Here is a metaphysical claim for you to chew on: it is possible to know whether or not it is possible to prove a claim.
          """
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          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
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          date: 2024-01-16 00:35:15.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 312133
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      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2057
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        +body: "All of this continues to go past you. You want to attack the metaphysical for its belief system yet you completely miss when you make the same logical leaps for yours. How can insurance companies prove something? Why are they *right*? If a court makes a decision, is that the *correct* one? Prove it. Only you can’t use logic or anything that comes from logical systems because, based on your attacks on religion, you’re not allowed to use the faith to prove the faith."
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          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
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        -id: 312795
        -bodyTs: "'allow':78 'anyth':62 'attack':12,72 'base':69 'belief':17 'come':64 'compani':35 'complet':21 'continu':4 'correct':51 'court':44 'decis':47 'faith':82,86 'go':6 'insur':34 'leap':29 'logic':28,60,66 'make':25,45 'metaphys':14 'miss':22 'one':52 'past':7 'prove':36,53,84 're':76 'religion':74 'right':41 'someth':37 'system':18,67 'use':59,80 'want':10 'yet':19"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://programming.dev/comment/6504838"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705381718 {#2045
          date: 2024-01-16 06:08:38.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 312795
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2101
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2102 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: """
          You haven’t shown that an insurance decision is correct. You also didn’t show that a court decision is right. You’re not seeing the forest for the trees.\n
          \n
          Your faith is that evidence trumps all. That is a baseless claim unless you can prove it *without the structures of evidence-based discourse*. You are using logic to prove your statements which is logically equivalent to “god said so.” You argue your beliefs trump theirs; you are equivalent using your foundation. Your religion is logic which, as I have pointed out many times without comment from you, is just as made up as any religion and more importantly has the introspective capabilities to prove so.\n
          \n
          This is a fairly straightforward epistemological argument; I’ve run out of ways to say it. Good luck!
          """
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          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
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          date: 2024-01-16 17:22:56.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 314135
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2123
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2119 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: "You can’t explain logic so I’m not sure you have an understanding of the arguments you’re attempting to make. I’m not seeing any justification other than “I think it’s it right.” I’ve seen no counters to the quantitative philosophical propositions and a general lack of understanding of any of the things that underpin your belief system. You still haven’t explained why your system is *right*."
        +lang: "en"
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          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
        ]
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          date: 2024-01-16 21:30:27.0 +01:00
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2198
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2223 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: """
          If it is so self-evident, you should be able to explain why your faith in evidence trumps anyone else’s faith in anything else. You don’t know why you believe what you believe and you’re completely incapable (so far, based on the evidence you’ve provided) of doing anything beyond “James Randi says it so it must be true.” You seem to blindly believe anything anyone in a position of authority states (courts, insurance always right provided they have a modicum of evidence to support their claim). You pound the “evidence trumps everything” pulpit yet can’t explain why, logically, that might make sense.\n
          \n
          You remind me of the evangelicals I’m also not a fan of.
          """
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          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
        ]
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        -id: 315410
        -bodyTs: "'abl':11 'also':117 'alway':79 'anyon':20,70 'anyth':25,53,69 'author':75 'base':44 'believ':33,36,68 'beyond':54 'blind':67 'claim':91 'complet':40 'court':77 'els':21,26 'evangel':114 'everyth':97 'evid':7,18,47,87,95 'explain':13,102 'faith':16,23 'fan':120 'far':43 'incap':41 'insur':78 'jame':55 'know':30 'logic':104 'm':116 'make':107 'might':106 'modicum':85 'must':61 'posit':73 'pound':93 'provid':50,81 'pulpit':98 'randi':56 're':39 'remind':110 'right':80 'say':57 'seem':65 'self':6 'self-evid':5 'sens':108 'state':76 'support':89 'true':63 'trump':19,96 've':49 'yet':99"
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          date: 2024-01-17 00:58:46.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 315410
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2311
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2298 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: """
          Why are 1 and 3 the correct options? Why are they even correct? Why is 2 wrong? You don’t seem to realize any of the foundation you’re building on and you’ve done nothing other than say “if I provide evidence,” that’s enough.\n
          \n
          Here’s a thought experiment. I take you into a closed room, put purple film over a window, and tell you the sky is purple. You’ve now got irrefutable proof that the sky is purple. But wait, you say! I can go outside and find different evidence, so clearly *having evidence alone is not enough*. We could even sidestep the problem by saying that the sky is colorless; it’s the refraction of the light that makes the color. Different frame; different counter.\n
          \n
          So why are you right? Why is your frame correct?
          """
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          date: 2024-01-17 04:14:38.0 +01:00
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          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
        ]
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    ]
    -id: 30602
    -titleTs: "'2024':5 'believ':17 'human':11 'knowledg':10 'peopl':15 'religion':19 'still':16 'year':4"
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      date: 2024-01-15 10:42:04.0 +01:00
    }
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     …2
  }
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  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2141 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
  +body: """
    This is a fundamental misunderstanding of Russell’s Teapot. If someone claims there is a teapot floating in space, cool, they need to prove its existence and the rest of us can go around as if one doesn’t exist. If someone claims there isn’t a teapot floating in space, now the burden of proof is on them. We can quickly exercise some critical thinking and realize that, while there might be a teapot in space someone brought with them and left, it’s not going to be beyond the asteroid belt.\n
    \n
    Now do every belief system with empirical evidence. You can’t, primarily because belief in the logic used to prove that empirical evidence is the best evidence is itself a belief system. Changing any one of the axioms that underpin your methodology completely changes the methodology (eg parallel lines meet at infinity turns geometry into hyperbolic geometry). Furthermore, we can extend Gödel’s incompleteness theorems to any formal system, like you’re attempting to employ, and show that they can’t prove themselves.\n
    \n
    In other words, we must take things on faith if we want to use logic and pull out statement related to logic like “burden of proof is on the positive.” You can believe whatever the fuck you want; you just can’t prove it and, in most metaphysical cases, you can’t disprove it either.
    """
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    "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
    "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
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}
 
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75 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2344
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349
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    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3001 …}
    +slug: "Why-in-the-year-2024-and-with-all-the-knowledge"
    +title: "Why in the year 2024 and with all the knowledge humans have now do people still believe in religion?"
    +url: null
    +body: null
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      date: 2024-01-22 02:19:07.0 +01:00
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    +children: [
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2344}
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2340
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2341 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: """
          Again, fundamental misunderstanding of Russell’s Teapot. You’re attempting to talk about proof, using the language of logic, to make sweeping claims that logic cannot make.\n
          \n
          If you’re saying we can neither prove nor disprove the metaphysical, we’re on the same page.\n
          \n
          If you’re saying the metaphysical doesn’t exist because no one has proved it and they have to prove it first, you don’t understand how logic, as we understand it today, works.\n
          \n
          Edit: to highlight your issues a little, “it doesn’t exist because it doesn’t exist” isn’t logically sound. Unlike Russell’s Teapot, circular logic is an actual, provable fallacy rather than a rhetorical tool *that is not a result of logic*. More importantly, you’re depending on *logic as a system of faith*, just like religion, unless you’ve found some results that contradict Gödel and company. We’ve made all of it up and, with our understanding today, it is not objective.
          """
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          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
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          "@return2ozma@lemmy.world"
          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
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          date: 2024-08-22 04:21:46.0 +02:00
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          date: 2024-01-15 21:52:02.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 311745
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      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2072
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2069 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: """
          You’re very focused on religion and seem to be missing all of the points about logic.\n
          \n
          > not saying that … pretty agnostic\n
          \n
          Cool, we’re on the same page.\n
          \n
          > If someone makes a claim… it needs… evidence\n
          \n
          This is problematic without a rigorous definition of evidence. I’m assuming you mean something along the lines of repeatable and independently verifiable since you won’t take a claim at face value. If you’re going to rigorously define evidence, you’re going to need to create a system that can’t contradict itself. Per your quotes, either there is a ball in my hand or there isn’t.\n
          \n
          This is called [a consistent system](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consistency). We agree on a set of axioms that we will achieve results from. If we have a consistent system and build a bunch of results on top of that, eventually we’ll run into things that are true but we cannot prove. We know this [because of a famous result I’ve already mentioned](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del%27s_incompleteness_theorems). In other words, we must take central results on faith. A common one that, several decades ago, was met with ridicule because it was “so illogical” mathematicians had “suspend reality in order for it to make any sense” is [the axiom of choice](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axiom_of_choice).\n
          \n
          In other words, you can’t use logic and reason to say those that believe in religion are idiots because you have just as much proof as they do (just faith) if we accept the basic axioms that drive our logical system.\n
          \n
          > doesn’t exist because it doesn’t exist… isn’t circular logic\n
          \n
          You’re conflating [a tautology](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tautology_(logic)) with [circular reasoning](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning). Circular reasoning boils down to “A because B; B because A;” and you’ve said “A because A” without any support for A. The lack of something in your hand is not necessary and sufficient to prove the ball’s existence. The only claim we can make is that your hand is empty.\n
          \n
          Here is a metaphysical claim for you to chew on: it is possible to know whether or not it is possible to prove a claim.
          """
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        -bodyTs: "'/wiki/axiom_of_choice).':219 '/wiki/circular_reasoning).':287 '/wiki/consistency).':116 '/wiki/g%c3%b6del%27s_incompleteness_theorems).':173 '/wiki/tautology_(logic))':281 'accept':253 'achiev':127 'agnost':22 'ago':190 'agre':118 'along':53 'alreadi':169 'assum':49 'axiom':123,214,256 'b':295,296 'ball':100,326 'basic':255 'believ':234 'boil':290 'build':137 'bunch':139 'call':110 'cannot':157 'central':180 'chew':349 'choic':216 'circular':272,283,288 'claim':34,67,331,345,365 'common':185 'conflat':276 'consist':112,134 'contradict':91 'cool':23 'creat':85 'decad':189 'defin':77 'definit':44 'doesn':262,267 'drive':258 'either':96 'empti':340 'en.wikipedia.org':115,172,218,280,286 'en.wikipedia.org/wiki/axiom_of_choice).':217 'en.wikipedia.org/wiki/circular_reasoning).':285 'en.wikipedia.org/wiki/consistency).':114 'en.wikipedia.org/wiki/g%c3%b6del%27s_incompleteness_theorems).':171 'en.wikipedia.org/wiki/tautology_(logic))':279 'eventu':146 'evid':37,46,78 'exist':264,269,328 'face':69 'faith':183,250 'famous':165 'focus':4 'go':74,81 'hand':103,317,338 'idiot':238 'illog':199 'independ':59 'isn':106,270 'know':160,355 'lack':312 'line':55 'll':148 'logic':17,227,260,273 'm':48 'make':32,209,334 'mathematician':200 'mean':51 'mention':170 'met':192 'metaphys':344 'miss':11 'much':244 'must':178 'necessari':320 'need':36,83 'one':186 'order':205 'page':29 'per':93 'point':15 'possibl':353,361 'pretti':21 'problemat':40 'proof':245 'prove':158,324,363 'quot':95 're':2,25,73,80,275 'realiti':203 'reason':229,284,289 'religion':6,236 'repeat':57 'result':128,141,166,181 'ridicul':194 'rigor':43,76 'run':149 'said':302 'say':19,231 'seem':8 'sens':211 'set':121 'sever':188 'sinc':61 'someon':31 'someth':52,314 'suffici':322 'support':308 'suspend':202 'system':87,113,135,261 'take':65,179 'tautolog':278 'thing':151 'top':143 'true':154 'use':226 'valu':70 've':168,301 'verifi':60 'whether':356 'without':41,306 'won':63 'word':176,222"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705361715 {#2068
          date: 2024-01-16 00:35:15.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 312133
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2057
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2050 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: "All of this continues to go past you. You want to attack the metaphysical for its belief system yet you completely miss when you make the same logical leaps for yours. How can insurance companies prove something? Why are they *right*? If a court makes a decision, is that the *correct* one? Prove it. Only you can’t use logic or anything that comes from logical systems because, based on your attacks on religion, you’re not allowed to use the faith to prove the faith."
        +lang: "en"
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          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
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        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705381718 {#2045
          date: 2024-01-16 06:08:38.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 312795
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2101
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2102 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: """
          You haven’t shown that an insurance decision is correct. You also didn’t show that a court decision is right. You’re not seeing the forest for the trees.\n
          \n
          Your faith is that evidence trumps all. That is a baseless claim unless you can prove it *without the structures of evidence-based discourse*. You are using logic to prove your statements which is logically equivalent to “god said so.” You argue your beliefs trump theirs; you are equivalent using your foundation. Your religion is logic which, as I have pointed out many times without comment from you, is just as made up as any religion and more importantly has the introspective capabilities to prove so.\n
          \n
          This is a fairly straightforward epistemological argument; I’ve run out of ways to say it. Good luck!
          """
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          "@return2ozma@lemmy.world"
          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
        ]
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          date: 2024-01-16 17:22:56.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 314135
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2123
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2119 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: "You can’t explain logic so I’m not sure you have an understanding of the arguments you’re attempting to make. I’m not seeing any justification other than “I think it’s it right.” I’ve seen no counters to the quantitative philosophical propositions and a general lack of understanding of any of the things that underpin your belief system. You still haven’t explained why your system is *right*."
        +lang: "en"
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          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2198
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2223 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: """
          If it is so self-evident, you should be able to explain why your faith in evidence trumps anyone else’s faith in anything else. You don’t know why you believe what you believe and you’re completely incapable (so far, based on the evidence you’ve provided) of doing anything beyond “James Randi says it so it must be true.” You seem to blindly believe anything anyone in a position of authority states (courts, insurance always right provided they have a modicum of evidence to support their claim). You pound the “evidence trumps everything” pulpit yet can’t explain why, logically, that might make sense.\n
          \n
          You remind me of the evangelicals I’m also not a fan of.
          """
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          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
        ]
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        -id: 315410
        -bodyTs: "'abl':11 'also':117 'alway':79 'anyon':20,70 'anyth':25,53,69 'author':75 'base':44 'believ':33,36,68 'beyond':54 'blind':67 'claim':91 'complet':40 'court':77 'els':21,26 'evangel':114 'everyth':97 'evid':7,18,47,87,95 'explain':13,102 'faith':16,23 'fan':120 'far':43 'incap':41 'insur':78 'jame':55 'know':30 'logic':104 'm':116 'make':107 'might':106 'modicum':85 'must':61 'posit':73 'pound':93 'provid':50,81 'pulpit':98 'randi':56 're':39 'remind':110 'right':80 'say':57 'seem':65 'self':6 'self-evid':5 'sens':108 'state':76 'support':89 'true':63 'trump':19,96 've':49 'yet':99"
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          date: 2024-01-17 00:58:46.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 315410
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2311
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2298 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: """
          Why are 1 and 3 the correct options? Why are they even correct? Why is 2 wrong? You don’t seem to realize any of the foundation you’re building on and you’ve done nothing other than say “if I provide evidence,” that’s enough.\n
          \n
          Here’s a thought experiment. I take you into a closed room, put purple film over a window, and tell you the sky is purple. You’ve now got irrefutable proof that the sky is purple. But wait, you say! I can go outside and find different evidence, so clearly *having evidence alone is not enough*. We could even sidestep the problem by saying that the sky is colorless; it’s the refraction of the light that makes the color. Different frame; different counter.\n
          \n
          So why are you right? Why is your frame correct?
          """
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          "@return2ozma@lemmy.world"
          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
        ]
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        -id: 315804
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    -id: 30602
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      date: 2024-01-15 10:42:04.0 +01:00
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     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
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  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2141 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
  +body: """
    This is a fundamental misunderstanding of Russell’s Teapot. If someone claims there is a teapot floating in space, cool, they need to prove its existence and the rest of us can go around as if one doesn’t exist. If someone claims there isn’t a teapot floating in space, now the burden of proof is on them. We can quickly exercise some critical thinking and realize that, while there might be a teapot in space someone brought with them and left, it’s not going to be beyond the asteroid belt.\n
    \n
    Now do every belief system with empirical evidence. You can’t, primarily because belief in the logic used to prove that empirical evidence is the best evidence is itself a belief system. Changing any one of the axioms that underpin your methodology completely changes the methodology (eg parallel lines meet at infinity turns geometry into hyperbolic geometry). Furthermore, we can extend Gödel’s incompleteness theorems to any formal system, like you’re attempting to employ, and show that they can’t prove themselves.\n
    \n
    In other words, we must take things on faith if we want to use logic and pull out statement related to logic like “burden of proof is on the positive.” You can believe whatever the fuck you want; you just can’t prove it and, in most metaphysical cases, you can’t disprove it either.
    """
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  +"title": 311420
}
 
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76 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2344
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    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3001 …}
    +slug: "Why-in-the-year-2024-and-with-all-the-knowledge"
    +title: "Why in the year 2024 and with all the knowledge humans have now do people still believe in religion?"
    +url: null
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      date: 2024-01-22 02:19:07.0 +01:00
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      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2344}
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2340
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        +body: """
          Again, fundamental misunderstanding of Russell’s Teapot. You’re attempting to talk about proof, using the language of logic, to make sweeping claims that logic cannot make.\n
          \n
          If you’re saying we can neither prove nor disprove the metaphysical, we’re on the same page.\n
          \n
          If you’re saying the metaphysical doesn’t exist because no one has proved it and they have to prove it first, you don’t understand how logic, as we understand it today, works.\n
          \n
          Edit: to highlight your issues a little, “it doesn’t exist because it doesn’t exist” isn’t logically sound. Unlike Russell’s Teapot, circular logic is an actual, provable fallacy rather than a rhetorical tool *that is not a result of logic*. More importantly, you’re depending on *logic as a system of faith*, just like religion, unless you’ve found some results that contradict Gödel and company. We’ve made all of it up and, with our understanding today, it is not objective.
          """
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          date: 2024-08-22 04:21:46.0 +02:00
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          date: 2024-01-15 21:52:02.0 +01:00
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        +body: """
          You’re very focused on religion and seem to be missing all of the points about logic.\n
          \n
          > not saying that … pretty agnostic\n
          \n
          Cool, we’re on the same page.\n
          \n
          > If someone makes a claim… it needs… evidence\n
          \n
          This is problematic without a rigorous definition of evidence. I’m assuming you mean something along the lines of repeatable and independently verifiable since you won’t take a claim at face value. If you’re going to rigorously define evidence, you’re going to need to create a system that can’t contradict itself. Per your quotes, either there is a ball in my hand or there isn’t.\n
          \n
          This is called [a consistent system](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consistency). We agree on a set of axioms that we will achieve results from. If we have a consistent system and build a bunch of results on top of that, eventually we’ll run into things that are true but we cannot prove. We know this [because of a famous result I’ve already mentioned](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del%27s_incompleteness_theorems). In other words, we must take central results on faith. A common one that, several decades ago, was met with ridicule because it was “so illogical” mathematicians had “suspend reality in order for it to make any sense” is [the axiom of choice](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axiom_of_choice).\n
          \n
          In other words, you can’t use logic and reason to say those that believe in religion are idiots because you have just as much proof as they do (just faith) if we accept the basic axioms that drive our logical system.\n
          \n
          > doesn’t exist because it doesn’t exist… isn’t circular logic\n
          \n
          You’re conflating [a tautology](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tautology_(logic)) with [circular reasoning](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning). Circular reasoning boils down to “A because B; B because A;” and you’ve said “A because A” without any support for A. The lack of something in your hand is not necessary and sufficient to prove the ball’s existence. The only claim we can make is that your hand is empty.\n
          \n
          Here is a metaphysical claim for you to chew on: it is possible to know whether or not it is possible to prove a claim.
          """
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      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2057
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        +body: "All of this continues to go past you. You want to attack the metaphysical for its belief system yet you completely miss when you make the same logical leaps for yours. How can insurance companies prove something? Why are they *right*? If a court makes a decision, is that the *correct* one? Prove it. Only you can’t use logic or anything that comes from logical systems because, based on your attacks on religion, you’re not allowed to use the faith to prove the faith."
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2101
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        +body: """
          You haven’t shown that an insurance decision is correct. You also didn’t show that a court decision is right. You’re not seeing the forest for the trees.\n
          \n
          Your faith is that evidence trumps all. That is a baseless claim unless you can prove it *without the structures of evidence-based discourse*. You are using logic to prove your statements which is logically equivalent to “god said so.” You argue your beliefs trump theirs; you are equivalent using your foundation. Your religion is logic which, as I have pointed out many times without comment from you, is just as made up as any religion and more importantly has the introspective capabilities to prove so.\n
          \n
          This is a fairly straightforward epistemological argument; I’ve run out of ways to say it. Good luck!
          """
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        +body: "You can’t explain logic so I’m not sure you have an understanding of the arguments you’re attempting to make. I’m not seeing any justification other than “I think it’s it right.” I’ve seen no counters to the quantitative philosophical propositions and a general lack of understanding of any of the things that underpin your belief system. You still haven’t explained why your system is *right*."
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2198
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          If it is so self-evident, you should be able to explain why your faith in evidence trumps anyone else’s faith in anything else. You don’t know why you believe what you believe and you’re completely incapable (so far, based on the evidence you’ve provided) of doing anything beyond “James Randi says it so it must be true.” You seem to blindly believe anything anyone in a position of authority states (courts, insurance always right provided they have a modicum of evidence to support their claim). You pound the “evidence trumps everything” pulpit yet can’t explain why, logically, that might make sense.\n
          \n
          You remind me of the evangelicals I’m also not a fan of.
          """
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2311
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        +body: """
          Why are 1 and 3 the correct options? Why are they even correct? Why is 2 wrong? You don’t seem to realize any of the foundation you’re building on and you’ve done nothing other than say “if I provide evidence,” that’s enough.\n
          \n
          Here’s a thought experiment. I take you into a closed room, put purple film over a window, and tell you the sky is purple. You’ve now got irrefutable proof that the sky is purple. But wait, you say! I can go outside and find different evidence, so clearly *having evidence alone is not enough*. We could even sidestep the problem by saying that the sky is colorless; it’s the refraction of the light that makes the color. Different frame; different counter.\n
          \n
          So why are you right? Why is your frame correct?
          """
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705461278 {#2299
          date: 2024-01-17 04:14:38.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 315804
      }
    ]
    -id: 30602
    -titleTs: "'2024':5 'believ':17 'human':11 'knowledg':10 'peopl':15 'religion':19 'still':16 'year':4"
    -bodyTs: null
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      date: 2024-01-15 10:42:04.0 +01:00
    }
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     …2
  }
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  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2141 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
  +body: """
    This is a fundamental misunderstanding of Russell’s Teapot. If someone claims there is a teapot floating in space, cool, they need to prove its existence and the rest of us can go around as if one doesn’t exist. If someone claims there isn’t a teapot floating in space, now the burden of proof is on them. We can quickly exercise some critical thinking and realize that, while there might be a teapot in space someone brought with them and left, it’s not going to be beyond the asteroid belt.\n
    \n
    Now do every belief system with empirical evidence. You can’t, primarily because belief in the logic used to prove that empirical evidence is the best evidence is itself a belief system. Changing any one of the axioms that underpin your methodology completely changes the methodology (eg parallel lines meet at infinity turns geometry into hyperbolic geometry). Furthermore, we can extend Gödel’s incompleteness theorems to any formal system, like you’re attempting to employ, and show that they can’t prove themselves.\n
    \n
    In other words, we must take things on faith if we want to use logic and pull out statement related to logic like “burden of proof is on the positive.” You can believe whatever the fuck you want; you just can’t prove it and, in most metaphysical cases, you can’t disprove it either.
    """
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    "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
    "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#2340
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    +slug: "Why-in-the-year-2024-and-with-all-the-knowledge"
    +title: "Why in the year 2024 and with all the knowledge humans have now do people still believe in religion?"
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      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2344
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: """
          This is a fundamental misunderstanding of Russell’s Teapot. If someone claims there is a teapot floating in space, cool, they need to prove its existence and the rest of us can go around as if one doesn’t exist. If someone claims there isn’t a teapot floating in space, now the burden of proof is on them. We can quickly exercise some critical thinking and realize that, while there might be a teapot in space someone brought with them and left, it’s not going to be beyond the asteroid belt.\n
          \n
          Now do every belief system with empirical evidence. You can’t, primarily because belief in the logic used to prove that empirical evidence is the best evidence is itself a belief system. Changing any one of the axioms that underpin your methodology completely changes the methodology (eg parallel lines meet at infinity turns geometry into hyperbolic geometry). Furthermore, we can extend Gödel’s incompleteness theorems to any formal system, like you’re attempting to employ, and show that they can’t prove themselves.\n
          \n
          In other words, we must take things on faith if we want to use logic and pull out statement related to logic like “burden of proof is on the positive.” You can believe whatever the fuck you want; you just can’t prove it and, in most metaphysical cases, you can’t disprove it either.
          """
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          date: 2024-01-15 19:36:52.0 +01:00
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      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2340}
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2072
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
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        +body: """
          You’re very focused on religion and seem to be missing all of the points about logic.\n
          \n
          > not saying that … pretty agnostic\n
          \n
          Cool, we’re on the same page.\n
          \n
          > If someone makes a claim… it needs… evidence\n
          \n
          This is problematic without a rigorous definition of evidence. I’m assuming you mean something along the lines of repeatable and independently verifiable since you won’t take a claim at face value. If you’re going to rigorously define evidence, you’re going to need to create a system that can’t contradict itself. Per your quotes, either there is a ball in my hand or there isn’t.\n
          \n
          This is called [a consistent system](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consistency). We agree on a set of axioms that we will achieve results from. If we have a consistent system and build a bunch of results on top of that, eventually we’ll run into things that are true but we cannot prove. We know this [because of a famous result I’ve already mentioned](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del%27s_incompleteness_theorems). In other words, we must take central results on faith. A common one that, several decades ago, was met with ridicule because it was “so illogical” mathematicians had “suspend reality in order for it to make any sense” is [the axiom of choice](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axiom_of_choice).\n
          \n
          In other words, you can’t use logic and reason to say those that believe in religion are idiots because you have just as much proof as they do (just faith) if we accept the basic axioms that drive our logical system.\n
          \n
          > doesn’t exist because it doesn’t exist… isn’t circular logic\n
          \n
          You’re conflating [a tautology](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tautology_(logic)) with [circular reasoning](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning). Circular reasoning boils down to “A because B; B because A;” and you’ve said “A because A” without any support for A. The lack of something in your hand is not necessary and sufficient to prove the ball’s existence. The only claim we can make is that your hand is empty.\n
          \n
          Here is a metaphysical claim for you to chew on: it is possible to know whether or not it is possible to prove a claim.
          """
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          date: 2024-01-16 00:35:15.0 +01:00
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      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2057
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        +body: "All of this continues to go past you. You want to attack the metaphysical for its belief system yet you completely miss when you make the same logical leaps for yours. How can insurance companies prove something? Why are they *right*? If a court makes a decision, is that the *correct* one? Prove it. Only you can’t use logic or anything that comes from logical systems because, based on your attacks on religion, you’re not allowed to use the faith to prove the faith."
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        -bodyTs: "'allow':78 'anyth':62 'attack':12,72 'base':69 'belief':17 'come':64 'compani':35 'complet':21 'continu':4 'correct':51 'court':44 'decis':47 'faith':82,86 'go':6 'insur':34 'leap':29 'logic':28,60,66 'make':25,45 'metaphys':14 'miss':22 'one':52 'past':7 'prove':36,53,84 're':76 'religion':74 'right':41 'someth':37 'system':18,67 'use':59,80 'want':10 'yet':19"
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          date: 2024-01-16 06:08:38.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 312795
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2101
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        +body: """
          You haven’t shown that an insurance decision is correct. You also didn’t show that a court decision is right. You’re not seeing the forest for the trees.\n
          \n
          Your faith is that evidence trumps all. That is a baseless claim unless you can prove it *without the structures of evidence-based discourse*. You are using logic to prove your statements which is logically equivalent to “god said so.” You argue your beliefs trump theirs; you are equivalent using your foundation. Your religion is logic which, as I have pointed out many times without comment from you, is just as made up as any religion and more importantly has the introspective capabilities to prove so.\n
          \n
          This is a fairly straightforward epistemological argument; I’ve run out of ways to say it. Good luck!
          """
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          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
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        +body: "You can’t explain logic so I’m not sure you have an understanding of the arguments you’re attempting to make. I’m not seeing any justification other than “I think it’s it right.” I’ve seen no counters to the quantitative philosophical propositions and a general lack of understanding of any of the things that underpin your belief system. You still haven’t explained why your system is *right*."
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          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
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        -bodyTs: "'argument':17 'attempt':20 'belief':61 'counter':41 'explain':4,67 'general':49 'haven':65 'justif':28 'lack':50 'logic':5 'm':8,24 'make':22 'philosoph':45 'proposit':46 'quantit':44 're':19 'right':36,72 'see':26 'seen':39 'still':64 'sure':10 'system':62,70 'thing':57 'think':32 'underpin':59 'understand':14,52 've':38"
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          date: 2024-01-16 21:30:27.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 314857
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2198
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
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        +body: """
          If it is so self-evident, you should be able to explain why your faith in evidence trumps anyone else’s faith in anything else. You don’t know why you believe what you believe and you’re completely incapable (so far, based on the evidence you’ve provided) of doing anything beyond “James Randi says it so it must be true.” You seem to blindly believe anything anyone in a position of authority states (courts, insurance always right provided they have a modicum of evidence to support their claim). You pound the “evidence trumps everything” pulpit yet can’t explain why, logically, that might make sense.\n
          \n
          You remind me of the evangelicals I’m also not a fan of.
          """
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          date: 2024-01-17 00:58:46.0 +01:00
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2311
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: """
          Why are 1 and 3 the correct options? Why are they even correct? Why is 2 wrong? You don’t seem to realize any of the foundation you’re building on and you’ve done nothing other than say “if I provide evidence,” that’s enough.\n
          \n
          Here’s a thought experiment. I take you into a closed room, put purple film over a window, and tell you the sky is purple. You’ve now got irrefutable proof that the sky is purple. But wait, you say! I can go outside and find different evidence, so clearly *having evidence alone is not enough*. We could even sidestep the problem by saying that the sky is colorless; it’s the refraction of the light that makes the color. Different frame; different counter.\n
          \n
          So why are you right? Why is your frame correct?
          """
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          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
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      date: 2024-01-15 10:42:04.0 +01:00
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     …2
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  +body: """
    Again, fundamental misunderstanding of Russell’s Teapot. You’re attempting to talk about proof, using the language of logic, to make sweeping claims that logic cannot make.\n
    \n
    If you’re saying we can neither prove nor disprove the metaphysical, we’re on the same page.\n
    \n
    If you’re saying the metaphysical doesn’t exist because no one has proved it and they have to prove it first, you don’t understand how logic, as we understand it today, works.\n
    \n
    Edit: to highlight your issues a little, “it doesn’t exist because it doesn’t exist” isn’t logically sound. Unlike Russell’s Teapot, circular logic is an actual, provable fallacy rather than a rhetorical tool *that is not a result of logic*. More importantly, you’re depending on *logic as a system of faith*, just like religion, unless you’ve found some results that contradict Gödel and company. We’ve made all of it up and, with our understanding today, it is not objective.
    """
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79 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2340
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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    +slug: "Why-in-the-year-2024-and-with-all-the-knowledge"
    +title: "Why in the year 2024 and with all the knowledge humans have now do people still believe in religion?"
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      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2344
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
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        +body: """
          This is a fundamental misunderstanding of Russell’s Teapot. If someone claims there is a teapot floating in space, cool, they need to prove its existence and the rest of us can go around as if one doesn’t exist. If someone claims there isn’t a teapot floating in space, now the burden of proof is on them. We can quickly exercise some critical thinking and realize that, while there might be a teapot in space someone brought with them and left, it’s not going to be beyond the asteroid belt.\n
          \n
          Now do every belief system with empirical evidence. You can’t, primarily because belief in the logic used to prove that empirical evidence is the best evidence is itself a belief system. Changing any one of the axioms that underpin your methodology completely changes the methodology (eg parallel lines meet at infinity turns geometry into hyperbolic geometry). Furthermore, we can extend Gödel’s incompleteness theorems to any formal system, like you’re attempting to employ, and show that they can’t prove themselves.\n
          \n
          In other words, we must take things on faith if we want to use logic and pull out statement related to logic like “burden of proof is on the positive.” You can believe whatever the fuck you want; you just can’t prove it and, in most metaphysical cases, you can’t disprove it either.
          """
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          date: 2024-01-15 19:36:52.0 +01:00
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      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2340}
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2072
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
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        +body: """
          You’re very focused on religion and seem to be missing all of the points about logic.\n
          \n
          > not saying that … pretty agnostic\n
          \n
          Cool, we’re on the same page.\n
          \n
          > If someone makes a claim… it needs… evidence\n
          \n
          This is problematic without a rigorous definition of evidence. I’m assuming you mean something along the lines of repeatable and independently verifiable since you won’t take a claim at face value. If you’re going to rigorously define evidence, you’re going to need to create a system that can’t contradict itself. Per your quotes, either there is a ball in my hand or there isn’t.\n
          \n
          This is called [a consistent system](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consistency). We agree on a set of axioms that we will achieve results from. If we have a consistent system and build a bunch of results on top of that, eventually we’ll run into things that are true but we cannot prove. We know this [because of a famous result I’ve already mentioned](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del%27s_incompleteness_theorems). In other words, we must take central results on faith. A common one that, several decades ago, was met with ridicule because it was “so illogical” mathematicians had “suspend reality in order for it to make any sense” is [the axiom of choice](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axiom_of_choice).\n
          \n
          In other words, you can’t use logic and reason to say those that believe in religion are idiots because you have just as much proof as they do (just faith) if we accept the basic axioms that drive our logical system.\n
          \n
          > doesn’t exist because it doesn’t exist… isn’t circular logic\n
          \n
          You’re conflating [a tautology](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tautology_(logic)) with [circular reasoning](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning). Circular reasoning boils down to “A because B; B because A;” and you’ve said “A because A” without any support for A. The lack of something in your hand is not necessary and sufficient to prove the ball’s existence. The only claim we can make is that your hand is empty.\n
          \n
          Here is a metaphysical claim for you to chew on: it is possible to know whether or not it is possible to prove a claim.
          """
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      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2057
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        +body: "All of this continues to go past you. You want to attack the metaphysical for its belief system yet you completely miss when you make the same logical leaps for yours. How can insurance companies prove something? Why are they *right*? If a court makes a decision, is that the *correct* one? Prove it. Only you can’t use logic or anything that comes from logical systems because, based on your attacks on religion, you’re not allowed to use the faith to prove the faith."
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          "@return2ozma@lemmy.world"
          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
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        -id: 312795
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        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://programming.dev/comment/6504838"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705381718 {#2045
          date: 2024-01-16 06:08:38.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 312795
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2101
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2102 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: """
          You haven’t shown that an insurance decision is correct. You also didn’t show that a court decision is right. You’re not seeing the forest for the trees.\n
          \n
          Your faith is that evidence trumps all. That is a baseless claim unless you can prove it *without the structures of evidence-based discourse*. You are using logic to prove your statements which is logically equivalent to “god said so.” You argue your beliefs trump theirs; you are equivalent using your foundation. Your religion is logic which, as I have pointed out many times without comment from you, is just as made up as any religion and more importantly has the introspective capabilities to prove so.\n
          \n
          This is a fairly straightforward epistemological argument; I’ve run out of ways to say it. Good luck!
          """
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          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
        ]
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        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2024-01-16 17:22:56.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 314135
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2123
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2119 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: "You can’t explain logic so I’m not sure you have an understanding of the arguments you’re attempting to make. I’m not seeing any justification other than “I think it’s it right.” I’ve seen no counters to the quantitative philosophical propositions and a general lack of understanding of any of the things that underpin your belief system. You still haven’t explained why your system is *right*."
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2024-01-16 21:30:27.0 +01:00
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          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
        ]
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          date: 2024-01-16 21:30:27.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 314857
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2198
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2223 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: """
          If it is so self-evident, you should be able to explain why your faith in evidence trumps anyone else’s faith in anything else. You don’t know why you believe what you believe and you’re completely incapable (so far, based on the evidence you’ve provided) of doing anything beyond “James Randi says it so it must be true.” You seem to blindly believe anything anyone in a position of authority states (courts, insurance always right provided they have a modicum of evidence to support their claim). You pound the “evidence trumps everything” pulpit yet can’t explain why, logically, that might make sense.\n
          \n
          You remind me of the evangelicals I’m also not a fan of.
          """
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          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
        ]
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          date: 2024-01-17 00:58:46.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 315410
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2311
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
        +image: null
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: """
          Why are 1 and 3 the correct options? Why are they even correct? Why is 2 wrong? You don’t seem to realize any of the foundation you’re building on and you’ve done nothing other than say “if I provide evidence,” that’s enough.\n
          \n
          Here’s a thought experiment. I take you into a closed room, put purple film over a window, and tell you the sky is purple. You’ve now got irrefutable proof that the sky is purple. But wait, you say! I can go outside and find different evidence, so clearly *having evidence alone is not enough*. We could even sidestep the problem by saying that the sky is colorless; it’s the refraction of the light that makes the color. Different frame; different counter.\n
          \n
          So why are you right? Why is your frame correct?
          """
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          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
        ]
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    ]
    -id: 30602
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      date: 2024-01-15 10:42:04.0 +01:00
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     …2
  }
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  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2341 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
  +body: """
    Again, fundamental misunderstanding of Russell’s Teapot. You’re attempting to talk about proof, using the language of logic, to make sweeping claims that logic cannot make.\n
    \n
    If you’re saying we can neither prove nor disprove the metaphysical, we’re on the same page.\n
    \n
    If you’re saying the metaphysical doesn’t exist because no one has proved it and they have to prove it first, you don’t understand how logic, as we understand it today, works.\n
    \n
    Edit: to highlight your issues a little, “it doesn’t exist because it doesn’t exist” isn’t logically sound. Unlike Russell’s Teapot, circular logic is an actual, provable fallacy rather than a rhetorical tool *that is not a result of logic*. More importantly, you’re depending on *logic as a system of faith*, just like religion, unless you’ve found some results that contradict Gödel and company. We’ve made all of it up and, with our understanding today, it is not objective.
    """
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    "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
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    "@return2ozma@lemmy.world"
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    "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
    "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
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    date: 2024-08-22 04:21:46.0 +02:00
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  +"title": 311745
}
 
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"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
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80 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2340
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2999 …}
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    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3001 …}
    +slug: "Why-in-the-year-2024-and-with-all-the-knowledge"
    +title: "Why in the year 2024 and with all the knowledge humans have now do people still believe in religion?"
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    +children: [
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2344
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: """
          This is a fundamental misunderstanding of Russell’s Teapot. If someone claims there is a teapot floating in space, cool, they need to prove its existence and the rest of us can go around as if one doesn’t exist. If someone claims there isn’t a teapot floating in space, now the burden of proof is on them. We can quickly exercise some critical thinking and realize that, while there might be a teapot in space someone brought with them and left, it’s not going to be beyond the asteroid belt.\n
          \n
          Now do every belief system with empirical evidence. You can’t, primarily because belief in the logic used to prove that empirical evidence is the best evidence is itself a belief system. Changing any one of the axioms that underpin your methodology completely changes the methodology (eg parallel lines meet at infinity turns geometry into hyperbolic geometry). Furthermore, we can extend Gödel’s incompleteness theorems to any formal system, like you’re attempting to employ, and show that they can’t prove themselves.\n
          \n
          In other words, we must take things on faith if we want to use logic and pull out statement related to logic like “burden of proof is on the positive.” You can believe whatever the fuck you want; you just can’t prove it and, in most metaphysical cases, you can’t disprove it either.
          """
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      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2340}
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2072
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
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        +body: """
          You’re very focused on religion and seem to be missing all of the points about logic.\n
          \n
          > not saying that … pretty agnostic\n
          \n
          Cool, we’re on the same page.\n
          \n
          > If someone makes a claim… it needs… evidence\n
          \n
          This is problematic without a rigorous definition of evidence. I’m assuming you mean something along the lines of repeatable and independently verifiable since you won’t take a claim at face value. If you’re going to rigorously define evidence, you’re going to need to create a system that can’t contradict itself. Per your quotes, either there is a ball in my hand or there isn’t.\n
          \n
          This is called [a consistent system](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consistency). We agree on a set of axioms that we will achieve results from. If we have a consistent system and build a bunch of results on top of that, eventually we’ll run into things that are true but we cannot prove. We know this [because of a famous result I’ve already mentioned](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del%27s_incompleteness_theorems). In other words, we must take central results on faith. A common one that, several decades ago, was met with ridicule because it was “so illogical” mathematicians had “suspend reality in order for it to make any sense” is [the axiom of choice](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axiom_of_choice).\n
          \n
          In other words, you can’t use logic and reason to say those that believe in religion are idiots because you have just as much proof as they do (just faith) if we accept the basic axioms that drive our logical system.\n
          \n
          > doesn’t exist because it doesn’t exist… isn’t circular logic\n
          \n
          You’re conflating [a tautology](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tautology_(logic)) with [circular reasoning](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning). Circular reasoning boils down to “A because B; B because A;” and you’ve said “A because A” without any support for A. The lack of something in your hand is not necessary and sufficient to prove the ball’s existence. The only claim we can make is that your hand is empty.\n
          \n
          Here is a metaphysical claim for you to chew on: it is possible to know whether or not it is possible to prove a claim.
          """
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          date: 2024-01-16 00:35:15.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 312133
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      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2057
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        +body: "All of this continues to go past you. You want to attack the metaphysical for its belief system yet you completely miss when you make the same logical leaps for yours. How can insurance companies prove something? Why are they *right*? If a court makes a decision, is that the *correct* one? Prove it. Only you can’t use logic or anything that comes from logical systems because, based on your attacks on religion, you’re not allowed to use the faith to prove the faith."
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705381718 {#2045
          date: 2024-01-16 06:08:38.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 312795
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2101
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        +body: """
          You haven’t shown that an insurance decision is correct. You also didn’t show that a court decision is right. You’re not seeing the forest for the trees.\n
          \n
          Your faith is that evidence trumps all. That is a baseless claim unless you can prove it *without the structures of evidence-based discourse*. You are using logic to prove your statements which is logically equivalent to “god said so.” You argue your beliefs trump theirs; you are equivalent using your foundation. Your religion is logic which, as I have pointed out many times without comment from you, is just as made up as any religion and more importantly has the introspective capabilities to prove so.\n
          \n
          This is a fairly straightforward epistemological argument; I’ve run out of ways to say it. Good luck!
          """
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          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
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        +"title": 314135
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2123
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        +body: "You can’t explain logic so I’m not sure you have an understanding of the arguments you’re attempting to make. I’m not seeing any justification other than “I think it’s it right.” I’ve seen no counters to the quantitative philosophical propositions and a general lack of understanding of any of the things that underpin your belief system. You still haven’t explained why your system is *right*."
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2198
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        +body: """
          If it is so self-evident, you should be able to explain why your faith in evidence trumps anyone else’s faith in anything else. You don’t know why you believe what you believe and you’re completely incapable (so far, based on the evidence you’ve provided) of doing anything beyond “James Randi says it so it must be true.” You seem to blindly believe anything anyone in a position of authority states (courts, insurance always right provided they have a modicum of evidence to support their claim). You pound the “evidence trumps everything” pulpit yet can’t explain why, logically, that might make sense.\n
          \n
          You remind me of the evangelicals I’m also not a fan of.
          """
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          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2311
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        +body: """
          Why are 1 and 3 the correct options? Why are they even correct? Why is 2 wrong? You don’t seem to realize any of the foundation you’re building on and you’ve done nothing other than say “if I provide evidence,” that’s enough.\n
          \n
          Here’s a thought experiment. I take you into a closed room, put purple film over a window, and tell you the sky is purple. You’ve now got irrefutable proof that the sky is purple. But wait, you say! I can go outside and find different evidence, so clearly *having evidence alone is not enough*. We could even sidestep the problem by saying that the sky is colorless; it’s the refraction of the light that makes the color. Different frame; different counter.\n
          \n
          So why are you right? Why is your frame correct?
          """
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  }
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  +body: """
    Again, fundamental misunderstanding of Russell’s Teapot. You’re attempting to talk about proof, using the language of logic, to make sweeping claims that logic cannot make.\n
    \n
    If you’re saying we can neither prove nor disprove the metaphysical, we’re on the same page.\n
    \n
    If you’re saying the metaphysical doesn’t exist because no one has proved it and they have to prove it first, you don’t understand how logic, as we understand it today, works.\n
    \n
    Edit: to highlight your issues a little, “it doesn’t exist because it doesn’t exist” isn’t logically sound. Unlike Russell’s Teapot, circular logic is an actual, provable fallacy rather than a rhetorical tool *that is not a result of logic*. More importantly, you’re depending on *logic as a system of faith*, just like religion, unless you’ve found some results that contradict Gödel and company. We’ve made all of it up and, with our understanding today, it is not objective.
    """
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82 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2072
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2999 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
    +image: null
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3001 …}
    +slug: "Why-in-the-year-2024-and-with-all-the-knowledge"
    +title: "Why in the year 2024 and with all the knowledge humans have now do people still believe in religion?"
    +url: null
    +body: null
    +type: "article"
    +lang: "en"
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      date: 2024-01-22 02:19:07.0 +01:00
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    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3047 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3049 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3051 …}
    +children: [
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2344
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2141 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: """
          This is a fundamental misunderstanding of Russell’s Teapot. If someone claims there is a teapot floating in space, cool, they need to prove its existence and the rest of us can go around as if one doesn’t exist. If someone claims there isn’t a teapot floating in space, now the burden of proof is on them. We can quickly exercise some critical thinking and realize that, while there might be a teapot in space someone brought with them and left, it’s not going to be beyond the asteroid belt.\n
          \n
          Now do every belief system with empirical evidence. You can’t, primarily because belief in the logic used to prove that empirical evidence is the best evidence is itself a belief system. Changing any one of the axioms that underpin your methodology completely changes the methodology (eg parallel lines meet at infinity turns geometry into hyperbolic geometry). Furthermore, we can extend Gödel’s incompleteness theorems to any formal system, like you’re attempting to employ, and show that they can’t prove themselves.\n
          \n
          In other words, we must take things on faith if we want to use logic and pull out statement related to logic like “burden of proof is on the positive.” You can believe whatever the fuck you want; you just can’t prove it and, in most metaphysical cases, you can’t disprove it either.
          """
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          "@return2ozma@lemmy.world"
          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
        ]
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        -bodyTs: "'around':34 'asteroid':92 'attempt':166 'axiom':131 'belief':97,107,124 'believ':209 'belt':93 'best':119 'beyond':90 'brought':79 'burden':54,200 'case':225 'chang':126,137 'claim':12,43 'complet':136 'cool':20 'critic':65 'disprov':229 'doesn':38 'eg':140 'either':231 'empir':100,115 'employ':168 'everi':96 'evid':101,116,120 'exercis':63 'exist':26,40 'extend':154 'faith':185 'float':17,49 'formal':161 'fuck':212 'fundament':4 'furthermor':151 'geometri':147,150 'go':33,87 'gödel':155 'hyperbol':149 'incomplet':157 'infin':145 'isn':45 'left':83 'like':163,199 'line':142 'logic':110,191,198 'meet':143 'metaphys':224 'methodolog':135,139 'might':72 'misunderstand':5 'must':181 'need':22 'one':37,128 'parallel':141 'posit':206 'primarili':105 'proof':56,202 'prove':24,113,175,219 'pull':193 'quick':62 're':165 'realiz':68 'relat':196 'rest':29 'russel':7 'show':170 'someon':11,42,78 'space':19,51,77 'statement':195 'system':98,125,162 'take':182 'teapot':9,16,48,75 'theorem':158 'thing':183 'think':66 'turn':146 'underpin':133 'us':31 'use':111,190 'want':188,214 'whatev':210 'word':179"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705343812 {#2332
          date: 2024-01-15 19:36:52.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 311420
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2340
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2341 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: """
          Again, fundamental misunderstanding of Russell’s Teapot. You’re attempting to talk about proof, using the language of logic, to make sweeping claims that logic cannot make.\n
          \n
          If you’re saying we can neither prove nor disprove the metaphysical, we’re on the same page.\n
          \n
          If you’re saying the metaphysical doesn’t exist because no one has proved it and they have to prove it first, you don’t understand how logic, as we understand it today, works.\n
          \n
          Edit: to highlight your issues a little, “it doesn’t exist because it doesn’t exist” isn’t logically sound. Unlike Russell’s Teapot, circular logic is an actual, provable fallacy rather than a rhetorical tool *that is not a result of logic*. More importantly, you’re depending on *logic as a system of faith*, just like religion, unless you’ve found some results that contradict Gödel and company. We’ve made all of it up and, with our understanding today, it is not objective.
          """
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          date: 2024-01-15 21:52:02.0 +01:00
        }
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        +tags: null
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          "@return2ozma@lemmy.world"
          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
          "@return2ozma@lemmy.world"
          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2342 …}
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        -id: 311745
        -bodyTs: "'actual':108 'attempt':10 'cannot':26 'circular':104 'claim':23 'compani':148 'contradict':145 'depend':127 'disprov':37 'doesn':52,88,93 'edit':80 'exist':54,90,95 'faith':134 'fallaci':110 'first':67 'found':141 'fundament':2 'gödel':146 'highlight':82 'import':124 'isn':96 'issu':84 'languag':17 'like':136 'littl':86 'logic':19,25,73,98,105,122,129 'made':151 'make':21,27 'metaphys':39,51 'misunderstand':3 'neither':34 'object':164 'one':57 'page':45 'proof':14 'provabl':109 'prove':35,59,65 'rather':111 're':9,30,41,48,126 'religion':137 'result':120,143 'rhetor':114 'russel':5,101 'say':31,49 'sound':99 'sweep':22 'system':132 'talk':12 'teapot':7,103 'today':78,160 'tool':115 'understand':71,76,159 'unless':138 'unlik':100 'use':15 've':140,150 'work':79"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://programming.dev/comment/6489470"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1724293306 {#2300
          date: 2024-08-22 04:21:46.0 +02:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705351922 {#2334
          date: 2024-01-15 21:52:02.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 311745
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2072}
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2057
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2050 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: "All of this continues to go past you. You want to attack the metaphysical for its belief system yet you completely miss when you make the same logical leaps for yours. How can insurance companies prove something? Why are they *right*? If a court makes a decision, is that the *correct* one? Prove it. Only you can’t use logic or anything that comes from logical systems because, based on your attacks on religion, you’re not allowed to use the faith to prove the faith."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 3
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        +lastActive: DateTime @1705381718 {#2047
          date: 2024-01-16 06:08:38.0 +01:00
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          "@return2ozma@lemmy.world"
          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
        ]
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        -id: 312795
        -bodyTs: "'allow':78 'anyth':62 'attack':12,72 'base':69 'belief':17 'come':64 'compani':35 'complet':21 'continu':4 'correct':51 'court':44 'decis':47 'faith':82,86 'go':6 'insur':34 'leap':29 'logic':28,60,66 'make':25,45 'metaphys':14 'miss':22 'one':52 'past':7 'prove':36,53,84 're':76 'religion':74 'right':41 'someth':37 'system':18,67 'use':59,80 'want':10 'yet':19"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
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        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://programming.dev/comment/6504838"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705381718 {#2045
          date: 2024-01-16 06:08:38.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 312795
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2101
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2102 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: """
          You haven’t shown that an insurance decision is correct. You also didn’t show that a court decision is right. You’re not seeing the forest for the trees.\n
          \n
          Your faith is that evidence trumps all. That is a baseless claim unless you can prove it *without the structures of evidence-based discourse*. You are using logic to prove your statements which is logically equivalent to “god said so.” You argue your beliefs trump theirs; you are equivalent using your foundation. Your religion is logic which, as I have pointed out many times without comment from you, is just as made up as any religion and more importantly has the introspective capabilities to prove so.\n
          \n
          This is a fairly straightforward epistemological argument; I’ve run out of ways to say it. Good luck!
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
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        +lastActive: DateTime @1705422176 {#2108
          date: 2024-01-16 17:22:56.0 +01:00
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        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@return2ozma@lemmy.world"
          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2109 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2106 …}
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        -id: 314135
        -bodyTs: "'also':12 'argu':73 'argument':124 'base':54 'baseless':41 'belief':75 'capabl':114 'claim':42 'comment':97 'correct':10 'court':18 'decis':8,19 'didn':13 'discours':55 'epistemolog':123 'equival':67,80 'evid':35,53 'evidence-bas':52 'fair':121 'faith':32 'forest':27 'foundat':83 'god':69 'good':134 'haven':2 'import':110 'insur':7 'introspect':113 'logic':59,66,87 'luck':135 'made':103 'mani':94 'point':92 'prove':46,61,116 're':23 'religion':85,107 'right':21 'run':127 'said':70 'say':132 'see':25 'show':15 'shown':4 'statement':63 'straightforward':122 'structur':50 'time':95 'tree':30 'trump':36,76 'unless':43 'use':58,81 've':126 'way':130 'without':48,96"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://programming.dev/comment/6521954"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705422176 {#2111
          date: 2024-01-16 17:22:56.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 314135
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2123
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2119 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: "You can’t explain logic so I’m not sure you have an understanding of the arguments you’re attempting to make. I’m not seeing any justification other than “I think it’s it right.” I’ve seen no counters to the quantitative philosophical propositions and a general lack of understanding of any of the things that underpin your belief system. You still haven’t explained why your system is *right*."
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2024-01-16 21:30:27.0 +01:00
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          "@return2ozma@lemmy.world"
          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
        ]
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        -id: 314857
        -bodyTs: "'argument':17 'attempt':20 'belief':61 'counter':41 'explain':4,67 'general':49 'haven':65 'justif':28 'lack':50 'logic':5 'm':8,24 'make':22 'philosoph':45 'proposit':46 'quantit':44 're':19 'right':36,72 'see':26 'seen':39 'still':64 'sure':10 'system':62,70 'thing':57 'think':32 'underpin':59 'understand':14,52 've':38"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://programming.dev/comment/6527557"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705437027 {#2113
          date: 2024-01-16 21:30:27.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 314857
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2198
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2223 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: """
          If it is so self-evident, you should be able to explain why your faith in evidence trumps anyone else’s faith in anything else. You don’t know why you believe what you believe and you’re completely incapable (so far, based on the evidence you’ve provided) of doing anything beyond “James Randi says it so it must be true.” You seem to blindly believe anything anyone in a position of authority states (courts, insurance always right provided they have a modicum of evidence to support their claim). You pound the “evidence trumps everything” pulpit yet can’t explain why, logically, that might make sense.\n
          \n
          You remind me of the evangelicals I’m also not a fan of.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1705449526 {#2215
          date: 2024-01-17 00:58:46.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@return2ozma@lemmy.world"
          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2227 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2214 …}
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        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2231 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2229 …}
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        -id: 315410
        -bodyTs: "'abl':11 'also':117 'alway':79 'anyon':20,70 'anyth':25,53,69 'author':75 'base':44 'believ':33,36,68 'beyond':54 'blind':67 'claim':91 'complet':40 'court':77 'els':21,26 'evangel':114 'everyth':97 'evid':7,18,47,87,95 'explain':13,102 'faith':16,23 'fan':120 'far':43 'incap':41 'insur':78 'jame':55 'know':30 'logic':104 'm':116 'make':107 'might':106 'modicum':85 'must':61 'posit':73 'pound':93 'provid':50,81 'pulpit':98 'randi':56 're':39 'remind':110 'right':80 'say':57 'seem':65 'self':6 'self-evid':5 'sens':108 'state':76 'support':89 'true':63 'trump':19,96 've':49 'yet':99"
        +ranking: 0
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        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://programming.dev/comment/6532393"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705449526 {#2224
          date: 2024-01-17 00:58:46.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 315410
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2311
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2298 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: """
          Why are 1 and 3 the correct options? Why are they even correct? Why is 2 wrong? You don’t seem to realize any of the foundation you’re building on and you’ve done nothing other than say “if I provide evidence,” that’s enough.\n
          \n
          Here’s a thought experiment. I take you into a closed room, put purple film over a window, and tell you the sky is purple. You’ve now got irrefutable proof that the sky is purple. But wait, you say! I can go outside and find different evidence, so clearly *having evidence alone is not enough*. We could even sidestep the problem by saying that the sky is colorless; it’s the refraction of the light that makes the color. Different frame; different counter.\n
          \n
          So why are you right? Why is your frame correct?
          """
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          "@return2ozma@lemmy.world"
          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2293 …}
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        -id: 315804
        -bodyTs: "'1':3 '2':16 '3':5 'alon':99 'build':30 'clear':96 'close':57 'color':126 'colorless':115 'correct':7,13,140 'could':104 'counter':130 'differ':93,127,129 'done':35 'enough':46,102 'even':12,105 'evid':43,94,98 'experi':51 'film':61 'find':92 'foundat':27 'frame':128,139 'go':89 'got':75 'irrefut':76 'light':122 'make':124 'noth':36 'option':8 'outsid':90 'problem':108 'proof':77 'provid':42 'purpl':60,71,82 'put':59 're':29 'realiz':23 'refract':119 'right':135 'room':58 'say':39,86,110 'seem':21 'sidestep':106 'sky':69,80,113 'take':53 'tell':66 'thought':50 've':34,73 'wait':84 'window':64 'wrong':17"
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    ]
    -id: 30602
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705311724 {#3021
      date: 2024-01-15 10:42:04.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
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  +body: """
    You’re very focused on religion and seem to be missing all of the points about logic.\n
    \n
    > not saying that … pretty agnostic\n
    \n
    Cool, we’re on the same page.\n
    \n
    > If someone makes a claim… it needs… evidence\n
    \n
    This is problematic without a rigorous definition of evidence. I’m assuming you mean something along the lines of repeatable and independently verifiable since you won’t take a claim at face value. If you’re going to rigorously define evidence, you’re going to need to create a system that can’t contradict itself. Per your quotes, either there is a ball in my hand or there isn’t.\n
    \n
    This is called [a consistent system](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consistency). We agree on a set of axioms that we will achieve results from. If we have a consistent system and build a bunch of results on top of that, eventually we’ll run into things that are true but we cannot prove. We know this [because of a famous result I’ve already mentioned](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del%27s_incompleteness_theorems). In other words, we must take central results on faith. A common one that, several decades ago, was met with ridicule because it was “so illogical” mathematicians had “suspend reality in order for it to make any sense” is [the axiom of choice](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axiom_of_choice).\n
    \n
    In other words, you can’t use logic and reason to say those that believe in religion are idiots because you have just as much proof as they do (just faith) if we accept the basic axioms that drive our logical system.\n
    \n
    > doesn’t exist because it doesn’t exist… isn’t circular logic\n
    \n
    You’re conflating [a tautology](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tautology_(logic)) with [circular reasoning](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning). Circular reasoning boils down to “A because B; B because A;” and you’ve said “A because A” without any support for A. The lack of something in your hand is not necessary and sufficient to prove the ball’s existence. The only claim we can make is that your hand is empty.\n
    \n
    Here is a metaphysical claim for you to chew on: it is possible to know whether or not it is possible to prove a claim.
    """
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83 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2072
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    +slug: "Why-in-the-year-2024-and-with-all-the-knowledge"
    +title: "Why in the year 2024 and with all the knowledge humans have now do people still believe in religion?"
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        +body: """
          This is a fundamental misunderstanding of Russell’s Teapot. If someone claims there is a teapot floating in space, cool, they need to prove its existence and the rest of us can go around as if one doesn’t exist. If someone claims there isn’t a teapot floating in space, now the burden of proof is on them. We can quickly exercise some critical thinking and realize that, while there might be a teapot in space someone brought with them and left, it’s not going to be beyond the asteroid belt.\n
          \n
          Now do every belief system with empirical evidence. You can’t, primarily because belief in the logic used to prove that empirical evidence is the best evidence is itself a belief system. Changing any one of the axioms that underpin your methodology completely changes the methodology (eg parallel lines meet at infinity turns geometry into hyperbolic geometry). Furthermore, we can extend Gödel’s incompleteness theorems to any formal system, like you’re attempting to employ, and show that they can’t prove themselves.\n
          \n
          In other words, we must take things on faith if we want to use logic and pull out statement related to logic like “burden of proof is on the positive.” You can believe whatever the fuck you want; you just can’t prove it and, in most metaphysical cases, you can’t disprove it either.
          """
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        +body: """
          Again, fundamental misunderstanding of Russell’s Teapot. You’re attempting to talk about proof, using the language of logic, to make sweeping claims that logic cannot make.\n
          \n
          If you’re saying we can neither prove nor disprove the metaphysical, we’re on the same page.\n
          \n
          If you’re saying the metaphysical doesn’t exist because no one has proved it and they have to prove it first, you don’t understand how logic, as we understand it today, works.\n
          \n
          Edit: to highlight your issues a little, “it doesn’t exist because it doesn’t exist” isn’t logically sound. Unlike Russell’s Teapot, circular logic is an actual, provable fallacy rather than a rhetorical tool *that is not a result of logic*. More importantly, you’re depending on *logic as a system of faith*, just like religion, unless you’ve found some results that contradict Gödel and company. We’ve made all of it up and, with our understanding today, it is not objective.
          """
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        +body: "All of this continues to go past you. You want to attack the metaphysical for its belief system yet you completely miss when you make the same logical leaps for yours. How can insurance companies prove something? Why are they *right*? If a court makes a decision, is that the *correct* one? Prove it. Only you can’t use logic or anything that comes from logical systems because, based on your attacks on religion, you’re not allowed to use the faith to prove the faith."
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2101
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        +body: """
          You haven’t shown that an insurance decision is correct. You also didn’t show that a court decision is right. You’re not seeing the forest for the trees.\n
          \n
          Your faith is that evidence trumps all. That is a baseless claim unless you can prove it *without the structures of evidence-based discourse*. You are using logic to prove your statements which is logically equivalent to “god said so.” You argue your beliefs trump theirs; you are equivalent using your foundation. Your religion is logic which, as I have pointed out many times without comment from you, is just as made up as any religion and more importantly has the introspective capabilities to prove so.\n
          \n
          This is a fairly straightforward epistemological argument; I’ve run out of ways to say it. Good luck!
          """
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        +body: "You can’t explain logic so I’m not sure you have an understanding of the arguments you’re attempting to make. I’m not seeing any justification other than “I think it’s it right.” I’ve seen no counters to the quantitative philosophical propositions and a general lack of understanding of any of the things that underpin your belief system. You still haven’t explained why your system is *right*."
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2198
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        +body: """
          If it is so self-evident, you should be able to explain why your faith in evidence trumps anyone else’s faith in anything else. You don’t know why you believe what you believe and you’re completely incapable (so far, based on the evidence you’ve provided) of doing anything beyond “James Randi says it so it must be true.” You seem to blindly believe anything anyone in a position of authority states (courts, insurance always right provided they have a modicum of evidence to support their claim). You pound the “evidence trumps everything” pulpit yet can’t explain why, logically, that might make sense.\n
          \n
          You remind me of the evangelicals I’m also not a fan of.
          """
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        -bodyTs: "'abl':11 'also':117 'alway':79 'anyon':20,70 'anyth':25,53,69 'author':75 'base':44 'believ':33,36,68 'beyond':54 'blind':67 'claim':91 'complet':40 'court':77 'els':21,26 'evangel':114 'everyth':97 'evid':7,18,47,87,95 'explain':13,102 'faith':16,23 'fan':120 'far':43 'incap':41 'insur':78 'jame':55 'know':30 'logic':104 'm':116 'make':107 'might':106 'modicum':85 'must':61 'posit':73 'pound':93 'provid':50,81 'pulpit':98 'randi':56 're':39 'remind':110 'right':80 'say':57 'seem':65 'self':6 'self-evid':5 'sens':108 'state':76 'support':89 'true':63 'trump':19,96 've':49 'yet':99"
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2311
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
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        +body: """
          Why are 1 and 3 the correct options? Why are they even correct? Why is 2 wrong? You don’t seem to realize any of the foundation you’re building on and you’ve done nothing other than say “if I provide evidence,” that’s enough.\n
          \n
          Here’s a thought experiment. I take you into a closed room, put purple film over a window, and tell you the sky is purple. You’ve now got irrefutable proof that the sky is purple. But wait, you say! I can go outside and find different evidence, so clearly *having evidence alone is not enough*. We could even sidestep the problem by saying that the sky is colorless; it’s the refraction of the light that makes the color. Different frame; different counter.\n
          \n
          So why are you right? Why is your frame correct?
          """
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      date: 2024-01-15 10:42:04.0 +01:00
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     …2
  }
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  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
  +body: """
    You’re very focused on religion and seem to be missing all of the points about logic.\n
    \n
    > not saying that … pretty agnostic\n
    \n
    Cool, we’re on the same page.\n
    \n
    > If someone makes a claim… it needs… evidence\n
    \n
    This is problematic without a rigorous definition of evidence. I’m assuming you mean something along the lines of repeatable and independently verifiable since you won’t take a claim at face value. If you’re going to rigorously define evidence, you’re going to need to create a system that can’t contradict itself. Per your quotes, either there is a ball in my hand or there isn’t.\n
    \n
    This is called [a consistent system](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consistency). We agree on a set of axioms that we will achieve results from. If we have a consistent system and build a bunch of results on top of that, eventually we’ll run into things that are true but we cannot prove. We know this [because of a famous result I’ve already mentioned](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del%27s_incompleteness_theorems). In other words, we must take central results on faith. A common one that, several decades ago, was met with ridicule because it was “so illogical” mathematicians had “suspend reality in order for it to make any sense” is [the axiom of choice](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axiom_of_choice).\n
    \n
    In other words, you can’t use logic and reason to say those that believe in religion are idiots because you have just as much proof as they do (just faith) if we accept the basic axioms that drive our logical system.\n
    \n
    > doesn’t exist because it doesn’t exist… isn’t circular logic\n
    \n
    You’re conflating [a tautology](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tautology_(logic)) with [circular reasoning](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning). Circular reasoning boils down to “A because B; B because A;” and you’ve said “A because A” without any support for A. The lack of something in your hand is not necessary and sufficient to prove the ball’s existence. The only claim we can make is that your hand is empty.\n
    \n
    Here is a metaphysical claim for you to chew on: it is possible to know whether or not it is possible to prove a claim.
    """
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84 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2072
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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    +slug: "Why-in-the-year-2024-and-with-all-the-knowledge"
    +title: "Why in the year 2024 and with all the knowledge humans have now do people still believe in religion?"
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      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2344
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        +body: """
          This is a fundamental misunderstanding of Russell’s Teapot. If someone claims there is a teapot floating in space, cool, they need to prove its existence and the rest of us can go around as if one doesn’t exist. If someone claims there isn’t a teapot floating in space, now the burden of proof is on them. We can quickly exercise some critical thinking and realize that, while there might be a teapot in space someone brought with them and left, it’s not going to be beyond the asteroid belt.\n
          \n
          Now do every belief system with empirical evidence. You can’t, primarily because belief in the logic used to prove that empirical evidence is the best evidence is itself a belief system. Changing any one of the axioms that underpin your methodology completely changes the methodology (eg parallel lines meet at infinity turns geometry into hyperbolic geometry). Furthermore, we can extend Gödel’s incompleteness theorems to any formal system, like you’re attempting to employ, and show that they can’t prove themselves.\n
          \n
          In other words, we must take things on faith if we want to use logic and pull out statement related to logic like “burden of proof is on the positive.” You can believe whatever the fuck you want; you just can’t prove it and, in most metaphysical cases, you can’t disprove it either.
          """
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        +body: """
          Again, fundamental misunderstanding of Russell’s Teapot. You’re attempting to talk about proof, using the language of logic, to make sweeping claims that logic cannot make.\n
          \n
          If you’re saying we can neither prove nor disprove the metaphysical, we’re on the same page.\n
          \n
          If you’re saying the metaphysical doesn’t exist because no one has proved it and they have to prove it first, you don’t understand how logic, as we understand it today, works.\n
          \n
          Edit: to highlight your issues a little, “it doesn’t exist because it doesn’t exist” isn’t logically sound. Unlike Russell’s Teapot, circular logic is an actual, provable fallacy rather than a rhetorical tool *that is not a result of logic*. More importantly, you’re depending on *logic as a system of faith*, just like religion, unless you’ve found some results that contradict Gödel and company. We’ve made all of it up and, with our understanding today, it is not objective.
          """
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          date: 2024-08-22 04:21:46.0 +02:00
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      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2072}
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2057
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        +body: "All of this continues to go past you. You want to attack the metaphysical for its belief system yet you completely miss when you make the same logical leaps for yours. How can insurance companies prove something? Why are they *right*? If a court makes a decision, is that the *correct* one? Prove it. Only you can’t use logic or anything that comes from logical systems because, based on your attacks on religion, you’re not allowed to use the faith to prove the faith."
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        -id: 312795
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          date: 2024-01-16 06:08:38.0 +01:00
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2101
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: """
          You haven’t shown that an insurance decision is correct. You also didn’t show that a court decision is right. You’re not seeing the forest for the trees.\n
          \n
          Your faith is that evidence trumps all. That is a baseless claim unless you can prove it *without the structures of evidence-based discourse*. You are using logic to prove your statements which is logically equivalent to “god said so.” You argue your beliefs trump theirs; you are equivalent using your foundation. Your religion is logic which, as I have pointed out many times without comment from you, is just as made up as any religion and more importantly has the introspective capabilities to prove so.\n
          \n
          This is a fairly straightforward epistemological argument; I’ve run out of ways to say it. Good luck!
          """
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          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
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          date: 2024-01-16 17:22:56.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 314135
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2123
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2119 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: "You can’t explain logic so I’m not sure you have an understanding of the arguments you’re attempting to make. I’m not seeing any justification other than “I think it’s it right.” I’ve seen no counters to the quantitative philosophical propositions and a general lack of understanding of any of the things that underpin your belief system. You still haven’t explained why your system is *right*."
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          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
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          date: 2024-01-16 21:30:27.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 314857
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2198
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2223 …}
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        +body: """
          If it is so self-evident, you should be able to explain why your faith in evidence trumps anyone else’s faith in anything else. You don’t know why you believe what you believe and you’re completely incapable (so far, based on the evidence you’ve provided) of doing anything beyond “James Randi says it so it must be true.” You seem to blindly believe anything anyone in a position of authority states (courts, insurance always right provided they have a modicum of evidence to support their claim). You pound the “evidence trumps everything” pulpit yet can’t explain why, logically, that might make sense.\n
          \n
          You remind me of the evangelicals I’m also not a fan of.
          """
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          "@return2ozma@lemmy.world"
          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
        ]
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          date: 2024-01-17 00:58:46.0 +01:00
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2311
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
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        +body: """
          Why are 1 and 3 the correct options? Why are they even correct? Why is 2 wrong? You don’t seem to realize any of the foundation you’re building on and you’ve done nothing other than say “if I provide evidence,” that’s enough.\n
          \n
          Here’s a thought experiment. I take you into a closed room, put purple film over a window, and tell you the sky is purple. You’ve now got irrefutable proof that the sky is purple. But wait, you say! I can go outside and find different evidence, so clearly *having evidence alone is not enough*. We could even sidestep the problem by saying that the sky is colorless; it’s the refraction of the light that makes the color. Different frame; different counter.\n
          \n
          So why are you right? Why is your frame correct?
          """
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          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
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      date: 2024-01-15 10:42:04.0 +01:00
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     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
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  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2069 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
  +body: """
    You’re very focused on religion and seem to be missing all of the points about logic.\n
    \n
    > not saying that … pretty agnostic\n
    \n
    Cool, we’re on the same page.\n
    \n
    > If someone makes a claim… it needs… evidence\n
    \n
    This is problematic without a rigorous definition of evidence. I’m assuming you mean something along the lines of repeatable and independently verifiable since you won’t take a claim at face value. If you’re going to rigorously define evidence, you’re going to need to create a system that can’t contradict itself. Per your quotes, either there is a ball in my hand or there isn’t.\n
    \n
    This is called [a consistent system](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consistency). We agree on a set of axioms that we will achieve results from. If we have a consistent system and build a bunch of results on top of that, eventually we’ll run into things that are true but we cannot prove. We know this [because of a famous result I’ve already mentioned](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del%27s_incompleteness_theorems). In other words, we must take central results on faith. A common one that, several decades ago, was met with ridicule because it was “so illogical” mathematicians had “suspend reality in order for it to make any sense” is [the axiom of choice](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axiom_of_choice).\n
    \n
    In other words, you can’t use logic and reason to say those that believe in religion are idiots because you have just as much proof as they do (just faith) if we accept the basic axioms that drive our logical system.\n
    \n
    > doesn’t exist because it doesn’t exist… isn’t circular logic\n
    \n
    You’re conflating [a tautology](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tautology_(logic)) with [circular reasoning](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning). Circular reasoning boils down to “A because B; B because A;” and you’ve said “A because A” without any support for A. The lack of something in your hand is not necessary and sufficient to prove the ball’s existence. The only claim we can make is that your hand is empty.\n
    \n
    Here is a metaphysical claim for you to chew on: it is possible to know whether or not it is possible to prove a claim.
    """
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#2057
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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    +slug: "Why-in-the-year-2024-and-with-all-the-knowledge"
    +title: "Why in the year 2024 and with all the knowledge humans have now do people still believe in religion?"
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    +children: [
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2344
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
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        +body: """
          This is a fundamental misunderstanding of Russell’s Teapot. If someone claims there is a teapot floating in space, cool, they need to prove its existence and the rest of us can go around as if one doesn’t exist. If someone claims there isn’t a teapot floating in space, now the burden of proof is on them. We can quickly exercise some critical thinking and realize that, while there might be a teapot in space someone brought with them and left, it’s not going to be beyond the asteroid belt.\n
          \n
          Now do every belief system with empirical evidence. You can’t, primarily because belief in the logic used to prove that empirical evidence is the best evidence is itself a belief system. Changing any one of the axioms that underpin your methodology completely changes the methodology (eg parallel lines meet at infinity turns geometry into hyperbolic geometry). Furthermore, we can extend Gödel’s incompleteness theorems to any formal system, like you’re attempting to employ, and show that they can’t prove themselves.\n
          \n
          In other words, we must take things on faith if we want to use logic and pull out statement related to logic like “burden of proof is on the positive.” You can believe whatever the fuck you want; you just can’t prove it and, in most metaphysical cases, you can’t disprove it either.
          """
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      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2340
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2341 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: """
          Again, fundamental misunderstanding of Russell’s Teapot. You’re attempting to talk about proof, using the language of logic, to make sweeping claims that logic cannot make.\n
          \n
          If you’re saying we can neither prove nor disprove the metaphysical, we’re on the same page.\n
          \n
          If you’re saying the metaphysical doesn’t exist because no one has proved it and they have to prove it first, you don’t understand how logic, as we understand it today, works.\n
          \n
          Edit: to highlight your issues a little, “it doesn’t exist because it doesn’t exist” isn’t logically sound. Unlike Russell’s Teapot, circular logic is an actual, provable fallacy rather than a rhetorical tool *that is not a result of logic*. More importantly, you’re depending on *logic as a system of faith*, just like religion, unless you’ve found some results that contradict Gödel and company. We’ve made all of it up and, with our understanding today, it is not objective.
          """
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          "@return2ozma@lemmy.world"
          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
          "@return2ozma@lemmy.world"
          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
        ]
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          date: 2024-08-22 04:21:46.0 +02:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705351922 {#2334
          date: 2024-01-15 21:52:02.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 311745
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2072
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2069 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: """
          You’re very focused on religion and seem to be missing all of the points about logic.\n
          \n
          > not saying that … pretty agnostic\n
          \n
          Cool, we’re on the same page.\n
          \n
          > If someone makes a claim… it needs… evidence\n
          \n
          This is problematic without a rigorous definition of evidence. I’m assuming you mean something along the lines of repeatable and independently verifiable since you won’t take a claim at face value. If you’re going to rigorously define evidence, you’re going to need to create a system that can’t contradict itself. Per your quotes, either there is a ball in my hand or there isn’t.\n
          \n
          This is called [a consistent system](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consistency). We agree on a set of axioms that we will achieve results from. If we have a consistent system and build a bunch of results on top of that, eventually we’ll run into things that are true but we cannot prove. We know this [because of a famous result I’ve already mentioned](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del%27s_incompleteness_theorems). In other words, we must take central results on faith. A common one that, several decades ago, was met with ridicule because it was “so illogical” mathematicians had “suspend reality in order for it to make any sense” is [the axiom of choice](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axiom_of_choice).\n
          \n
          In other words, you can’t use logic and reason to say those that believe in religion are idiots because you have just as much proof as they do (just faith) if we accept the basic axioms that drive our logical system.\n
          \n
          > doesn’t exist because it doesn’t exist… isn’t circular logic\n
          \n
          You’re conflating [a tautology](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tautology_(logic)) with [circular reasoning](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning). Circular reasoning boils down to “A because B; B because A;” and you’ve said “A because A” without any support for A. The lack of something in your hand is not necessary and sufficient to prove the ball’s existence. The only claim we can make is that your hand is empty.\n
          \n
          Here is a metaphysical claim for you to chew on: it is possible to know whether or not it is possible to prove a claim.
          """
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        -bodyTs: "'/wiki/axiom_of_choice).':219 '/wiki/circular_reasoning).':287 '/wiki/consistency).':116 '/wiki/g%c3%b6del%27s_incompleteness_theorems).':173 '/wiki/tautology_(logic))':281 'accept':253 'achiev':127 'agnost':22 'ago':190 'agre':118 'along':53 'alreadi':169 'assum':49 'axiom':123,214,256 'b':295,296 'ball':100,326 'basic':255 'believ':234 'boil':290 'build':137 'bunch':139 'call':110 'cannot':157 'central':180 'chew':349 'choic':216 'circular':272,283,288 'claim':34,67,331,345,365 'common':185 'conflat':276 'consist':112,134 'contradict':91 'cool':23 'creat':85 'decad':189 'defin':77 'definit':44 'doesn':262,267 'drive':258 'either':96 'empti':340 'en.wikipedia.org':115,172,218,280,286 'en.wikipedia.org/wiki/axiom_of_choice).':217 'en.wikipedia.org/wiki/circular_reasoning).':285 'en.wikipedia.org/wiki/consistency).':114 'en.wikipedia.org/wiki/g%c3%b6del%27s_incompleteness_theorems).':171 'en.wikipedia.org/wiki/tautology_(logic))':279 'eventu':146 'evid':37,46,78 'exist':264,269,328 'face':69 'faith':183,250 'famous':165 'focus':4 'go':74,81 'hand':103,317,338 'idiot':238 'illog':199 'independ':59 'isn':106,270 'know':160,355 'lack':312 'line':55 'll':148 'logic':17,227,260,273 'm':48 'make':32,209,334 'mathematician':200 'mean':51 'mention':170 'met':192 'metaphys':344 'miss':11 'much':244 'must':178 'necessari':320 'need':36,83 'one':186 'order':205 'page':29 'per':93 'point':15 'possibl':353,361 'pretti':21 'problemat':40 'proof':245 'prove':158,324,363 'quot':95 're':2,25,73,80,275 'realiti':203 'reason':229,284,289 'religion':6,236 'repeat':57 'result':128,141,166,181 'ridicul':194 'rigor':43,76 'run':149 'said':302 'say':19,231 'seem':8 'sens':211 'set':121 'sever':188 'sinc':61 'someon':31 'someth':52,314 'suffici':322 'support':308 'suspend':202 'system':87,113,135,261 'take':65,179 'tautolog':278 'thing':151 'top':143 'true':154 'use':226 'valu':70 've':168,301 'verifi':60 'whether':356 'without':41,306 'won':63 'word':176,222"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://programming.dev/comment/6494185"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705361715 {#2068
          date: 2024-01-16 00:35:15.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 312133
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2057}
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2101
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2102 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: """
          You haven’t shown that an insurance decision is correct. You also didn’t show that a court decision is right. You’re not seeing the forest for the trees.\n
          \n
          Your faith is that evidence trumps all. That is a baseless claim unless you can prove it *without the structures of evidence-based discourse*. You are using logic to prove your statements which is logically equivalent to “god said so.” You argue your beliefs trump theirs; you are equivalent using your foundation. Your religion is logic which, as I have pointed out many times without comment from you, is just as made up as any religion and more importantly has the introspective capabilities to prove so.\n
          \n
          This is a fairly straightforward epistemological argument; I’ve run out of ways to say it. Good luck!
          """
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        +ip: null
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          "@return2ozma@lemmy.world"
          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2109 …}
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        +ranking: 0
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705422176 {#2111
          date: 2024-01-16 17:22:56.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 314135
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2123
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2119 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: "You can’t explain logic so I’m not sure you have an understanding of the arguments you’re attempting to make. I’m not seeing any justification other than “I think it’s it right.” I’ve seen no counters to the quantitative philosophical propositions and a general lack of understanding of any of the things that underpin your belief system. You still haven’t explained why your system is *right*."
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          date: 2024-01-16 21:30:27.0 +01:00
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          "@return2ozma@lemmy.world"
          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
        ]
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          date: 2024-01-16 21:30:27.0 +01:00
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2198
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2223 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: """
          If it is so self-evident, you should be able to explain why your faith in evidence trumps anyone else’s faith in anything else. You don’t know why you believe what you believe and you’re completely incapable (so far, based on the evidence you’ve provided) of doing anything beyond “James Randi says it so it must be true.” You seem to blindly believe anything anyone in a position of authority states (courts, insurance always right provided they have a modicum of evidence to support their claim). You pound the “evidence trumps everything” pulpit yet can’t explain why, logically, that might make sense.\n
          \n
          You remind me of the evangelicals I’m also not a fan of.
          """
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          date: 2024-01-17 00:58:46.0 +01:00
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          "@return2ozma@lemmy.world"
          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
        ]
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        -id: 315410
        -bodyTs: "'abl':11 'also':117 'alway':79 'anyon':20,70 'anyth':25,53,69 'author':75 'base':44 'believ':33,36,68 'beyond':54 'blind':67 'claim':91 'complet':40 'court':77 'els':21,26 'evangel':114 'everyth':97 'evid':7,18,47,87,95 'explain':13,102 'faith':16,23 'fan':120 'far':43 'incap':41 'insur':78 'jame':55 'know':30 'logic':104 'm':116 'make':107 'might':106 'modicum':85 'must':61 'posit':73 'pound':93 'provid':50,81 'pulpit':98 'randi':56 're':39 'remind':110 'right':80 'say':57 'seem':65 'self':6 'self-evid':5 'sens':108 'state':76 'support':89 'true':63 'trump':19,96 've':49 'yet':99"
        +ranking: 0
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        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705449526 {#2224
          date: 2024-01-17 00:58:46.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 315410
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2311
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2298 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: """
          Why are 1 and 3 the correct options? Why are they even correct? Why is 2 wrong? You don’t seem to realize any of the foundation you’re building on and you’ve done nothing other than say “if I provide evidence,” that’s enough.\n
          \n
          Here’s a thought experiment. I take you into a closed room, put purple film over a window, and tell you the sky is purple. You’ve now got irrefutable proof that the sky is purple. But wait, you say! I can go outside and find different evidence, so clearly *having evidence alone is not enough*. We could even sidestep the problem by saying that the sky is colorless; it’s the refraction of the light that makes the color. Different frame; different counter.\n
          \n
          So why are you right? Why is your frame correct?
          """
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          "@return2ozma@lemmy.world"
          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
        ]
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    ]
    -id: 30602
    -titleTs: "'2024':5 'believ':17 'human':11 'knowledg':10 'peopl':15 'religion':19 'still':16 'year':4"
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    +apId: "https://lemmy.world/post/10734946"
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705311724 {#3021
      date: 2024-01-15 10:42:04.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2050 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
  +body: "All of this continues to go past you. You want to attack the metaphysical for its belief system yet you completely miss when you make the same logical leaps for yours. How can insurance companies prove something? Why are they *right*? If a court makes a decision, is that the *correct* one? Prove it. Only you can’t use logic or anything that comes from logical systems because, based on your attacks on religion, you’re not allowed to use the faith to prove the faith."
  +lang: "en"
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    date: 2024-01-16 06:08:38.0 +01:00
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    "@return2ozma@lemmy.world"
    "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
    "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
    "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2055 …}
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  -id: 312795
  -bodyTs: "'allow':78 'anyth':62 'attack':12,72 'base':69 'belief':17 'come':64 'compani':35 'complet':21 'continu':4 'correct':51 'court':44 'decis':47 'faith':82,86 'go':6 'insur':34 'leap':29 'logic':28,60,66 'make':25,45 'metaphys':14 'miss':22 'one':52 'past':7 'prove':36,53,84 're':76 'religion':74 'right':41 'someth':37 'system':18,67 'use':59,80 'want':10 'yet':19"
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    date: 2024-01-16 06:08:38.0 +01:00
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  +"title": 312795
}
 
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87 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2057
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2999 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
    +image: null
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3001 …}
    +slug: "Why-in-the-year-2024-and-with-all-the-knowledge"
    +title: "Why in the year 2024 and with all the knowledge humans have now do people still believe in religion?"
    +url: null
    +body: null
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      date: 2024-01-22 02:19:07.0 +01:00
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    +children: [
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2344
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2141 …}
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        +body: """
          This is a fundamental misunderstanding of Russell’s Teapot. If someone claims there is a teapot floating in space, cool, they need to prove its existence and the rest of us can go around as if one doesn’t exist. If someone claims there isn’t a teapot floating in space, now the burden of proof is on them. We can quickly exercise some critical thinking and realize that, while there might be a teapot in space someone brought with them and left, it’s not going to be beyond the asteroid belt.\n
          \n
          Now do every belief system with empirical evidence. You can’t, primarily because belief in the logic used to prove that empirical evidence is the best evidence is itself a belief system. Changing any one of the axioms that underpin your methodology completely changes the methodology (eg parallel lines meet at infinity turns geometry into hyperbolic geometry). Furthermore, we can extend Gödel’s incompleteness theorems to any formal system, like you’re attempting to employ, and show that they can’t prove themselves.\n
          \n
          In other words, we must take things on faith if we want to use logic and pull out statement related to logic like “burden of proof is on the positive.” You can believe whatever the fuck you want; you just can’t prove it and, in most metaphysical cases, you can’t disprove it either.
          """
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          date: 2024-01-15 19:36:52.0 +01:00
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      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2340
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
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        +body: """
          Again, fundamental misunderstanding of Russell’s Teapot. You’re attempting to talk about proof, using the language of logic, to make sweeping claims that logic cannot make.\n
          \n
          If you’re saying we can neither prove nor disprove the metaphysical, we’re on the same page.\n
          \n
          If you’re saying the metaphysical doesn’t exist because no one has proved it and they have to prove it first, you don’t understand how logic, as we understand it today, works.\n
          \n
          Edit: to highlight your issues a little, “it doesn’t exist because it doesn’t exist” isn’t logically sound. Unlike Russell’s Teapot, circular logic is an actual, provable fallacy rather than a rhetorical tool *that is not a result of logic*. More importantly, you’re depending on *logic as a system of faith*, just like religion, unless you’ve found some results that contradict Gödel and company. We’ve made all of it up and, with our understanding today, it is not objective.
          """
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          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
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          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
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        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1724293306 {#2300
          date: 2024-08-22 04:21:46.0 +02:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705351922 {#2334
          date: 2024-01-15 21:52:02.0 +01:00
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      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2072
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2069 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: """
          You’re very focused on religion and seem to be missing all of the points about logic.\n
          \n
          > not saying that … pretty agnostic\n
          \n
          Cool, we’re on the same page.\n
          \n
          > If someone makes a claim… it needs… evidence\n
          \n
          This is problematic without a rigorous definition of evidence. I’m assuming you mean something along the lines of repeatable and independently verifiable since you won’t take a claim at face value. If you’re going to rigorously define evidence, you’re going to need to create a system that can’t contradict itself. Per your quotes, either there is a ball in my hand or there isn’t.\n
          \n
          This is called [a consistent system](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consistency). We agree on a set of axioms that we will achieve results from. If we have a consistent system and build a bunch of results on top of that, eventually we’ll run into things that are true but we cannot prove. We know this [because of a famous result I’ve already mentioned](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del%27s_incompleteness_theorems). In other words, we must take central results on faith. A common one that, several decades ago, was met with ridicule because it was “so illogical” mathematicians had “suspend reality in order for it to make any sense” is [the axiom of choice](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axiom_of_choice).\n
          \n
          In other words, you can’t use logic and reason to say those that believe in religion are idiots because you have just as much proof as they do (just faith) if we accept the basic axioms that drive our logical system.\n
          \n
          > doesn’t exist because it doesn’t exist… isn’t circular logic\n
          \n
          You’re conflating [a tautology](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tautology_(logic)) with [circular reasoning](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning). Circular reasoning boils down to “A because B; B because A;” and you’ve said “A because A” without any support for A. The lack of something in your hand is not necessary and sufficient to prove the ball’s existence. The only claim we can make is that your hand is empty.\n
          \n
          Here is a metaphysical claim for you to chew on: it is possible to know whether or not it is possible to prove a claim.
          """
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        +ranking: 0
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705361715 {#2068
          date: 2024-01-16 00:35:15.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 312133
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2057}
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2101
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2102 …}
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        +body: """
          You haven’t shown that an insurance decision is correct. You also didn’t show that a court decision is right. You’re not seeing the forest for the trees.\n
          \n
          Your faith is that evidence trumps all. That is a baseless claim unless you can prove it *without the structures of evidence-based discourse*. You are using logic to prove your statements which is logically equivalent to “god said so.” You argue your beliefs trump theirs; you are equivalent using your foundation. Your religion is logic which, as I have pointed out many times without comment from you, is just as made up as any religion and more importantly has the introspective capabilities to prove so.\n
          \n
          This is a fairly straightforward epistemological argument; I’ve run out of ways to say it. Good luck!
          """
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          "@return2ozma@lemmy.world"
          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
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          date: 2024-01-16 17:22:56.0 +01:00
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2123
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "You can’t explain logic so I’m not sure you have an understanding of the arguments you’re attempting to make. I’m not seeing any justification other than “I think it’s it right.” I’ve seen no counters to the quantitative philosophical propositions and a general lack of understanding of any of the things that underpin your belief system. You still haven’t explained why your system is *right*."
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          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2198
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        +body: """
          If it is so self-evident, you should be able to explain why your faith in evidence trumps anyone else’s faith in anything else. You don’t know why you believe what you believe and you’re completely incapable (so far, based on the evidence you’ve provided) of doing anything beyond “James Randi says it so it must be true.” You seem to blindly believe anything anyone in a position of authority states (courts, insurance always right provided they have a modicum of evidence to support their claim). You pound the “evidence trumps everything” pulpit yet can’t explain why, logically, that might make sense.\n
          \n
          You remind me of the evangelicals I’m also not a fan of.
          """
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          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
        ]
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          date: 2024-01-17 00:58:46.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 315410
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2311
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2298 …}
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        +body: """
          Why are 1 and 3 the correct options? Why are they even correct? Why is 2 wrong? You don’t seem to realize any of the foundation you’re building on and you’ve done nothing other than say “if I provide evidence,” that’s enough.\n
          \n
          Here’s a thought experiment. I take you into a closed room, put purple film over a window, and tell you the sky is purple. You’ve now got irrefutable proof that the sky is purple. But wait, you say! I can go outside and find different evidence, so clearly *having evidence alone is not enough*. We could even sidestep the problem by saying that the sky is colorless; it’s the refraction of the light that makes the color. Different frame; different counter.\n
          \n
          So why are you right? Why is your frame correct?
          """
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    ]
    -id: 30602
    -titleTs: "'2024':5 'believ':17 'human':11 'knowledg':10 'peopl':15 'religion':19 'still':16 'year':4"
    -bodyTs: null
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    +apId: "https://lemmy.world/post/10734946"
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705311724 {#3021
      date: 2024-01-15 10:42:04.0 +01:00
    }
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     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
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  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
  +body: "All of this continues to go past you. You want to attack the metaphysical for its belief system yet you completely miss when you make the same logical leaps for yours. How can insurance companies prove something? Why are they *right*? If a court makes a decision, is that the *correct* one? Prove it. Only you can’t use logic or anything that comes from logical systems because, based on your attacks on religion, you’re not allowed to use the faith to prove the faith."
  +lang: "en"
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    "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
    "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
    "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
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88 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2057
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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    +slug: "Why-in-the-year-2024-and-with-all-the-knowledge"
    +title: "Why in the year 2024 and with all the knowledge humans have now do people still believe in religion?"
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      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2344
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: """
          This is a fundamental misunderstanding of Russell’s Teapot. If someone claims there is a teapot floating in space, cool, they need to prove its existence and the rest of us can go around as if one doesn’t exist. If someone claims there isn’t a teapot floating in space, now the burden of proof is on them. We can quickly exercise some critical thinking and realize that, while there might be a teapot in space someone brought with them and left, it’s not going to be beyond the asteroid belt.\n
          \n
          Now do every belief system with empirical evidence. You can’t, primarily because belief in the logic used to prove that empirical evidence is the best evidence is itself a belief system. Changing any one of the axioms that underpin your methodology completely changes the methodology (eg parallel lines meet at infinity turns geometry into hyperbolic geometry). Furthermore, we can extend Gödel’s incompleteness theorems to any formal system, like you’re attempting to employ, and show that they can’t prove themselves.\n
          \n
          In other words, we must take things on faith if we want to use logic and pull out statement related to logic like “burden of proof is on the positive.” You can believe whatever the fuck you want; you just can’t prove it and, in most metaphysical cases, you can’t disprove it either.
          """
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      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2340
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        +body: """
          Again, fundamental misunderstanding of Russell’s Teapot. You’re attempting to talk about proof, using the language of logic, to make sweeping claims that logic cannot make.\n
          \n
          If you’re saying we can neither prove nor disprove the metaphysical, we’re on the same page.\n
          \n
          If you’re saying the metaphysical doesn’t exist because no one has proved it and they have to prove it first, you don’t understand how logic, as we understand it today, works.\n
          \n
          Edit: to highlight your issues a little, “it doesn’t exist because it doesn’t exist” isn’t logically sound. Unlike Russell’s Teapot, circular logic is an actual, provable fallacy rather than a rhetorical tool *that is not a result of logic*. More importantly, you’re depending on *logic as a system of faith*, just like religion, unless you’ve found some results that contradict Gödel and company. We’ve made all of it up and, with our understanding today, it is not objective.
          """
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          date: 2024-08-22 04:21:46.0 +02:00
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          date: 2024-01-15 21:52:02.0 +01:00
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      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2072
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
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        +body: """
          You’re very focused on religion and seem to be missing all of the points about logic.\n
          \n
          > not saying that … pretty agnostic\n
          \n
          Cool, we’re on the same page.\n
          \n
          > If someone makes a claim… it needs… evidence\n
          \n
          This is problematic without a rigorous definition of evidence. I’m assuming you mean something along the lines of repeatable and independently verifiable since you won’t take a claim at face value. If you’re going to rigorously define evidence, you’re going to need to create a system that can’t contradict itself. Per your quotes, either there is a ball in my hand or there isn’t.\n
          \n
          This is called [a consistent system](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consistency). We agree on a set of axioms that we will achieve results from. If we have a consistent system and build a bunch of results on top of that, eventually we’ll run into things that are true but we cannot prove. We know this [because of a famous result I’ve already mentioned](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del%27s_incompleteness_theorems). In other words, we must take central results on faith. A common one that, several decades ago, was met with ridicule because it was “so illogical” mathematicians had “suspend reality in order for it to make any sense” is [the axiom of choice](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axiom_of_choice).\n
          \n
          In other words, you can’t use logic and reason to say those that believe in religion are idiots because you have just as much proof as they do (just faith) if we accept the basic axioms that drive our logical system.\n
          \n
          > doesn’t exist because it doesn’t exist… isn’t circular logic\n
          \n
          You’re conflating [a tautology](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tautology_(logic)) with [circular reasoning](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning). Circular reasoning boils down to “A because B; B because A;” and you’ve said “A because A” without any support for A. The lack of something in your hand is not necessary and sufficient to prove the ball’s existence. The only claim we can make is that your hand is empty.\n
          \n
          Here is a metaphysical claim for you to chew on: it is possible to know whether or not it is possible to prove a claim.
          """
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        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
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        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705361715 {#2068
          date: 2024-01-16 00:35:15.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 312133
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2057}
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2101
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
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        +body: """
          You haven’t shown that an insurance decision is correct. You also didn’t show that a court decision is right. You’re not seeing the forest for the trees.\n
          \n
          Your faith is that evidence trumps all. That is a baseless claim unless you can prove it *without the structures of evidence-based discourse*. You are using logic to prove your statements which is logically equivalent to “god said so.” You argue your beliefs trump theirs; you are equivalent using your foundation. Your religion is logic which, as I have pointed out many times without comment from you, is just as made up as any religion and more importantly has the introspective capabilities to prove so.\n
          \n
          This is a fairly straightforward epistemological argument; I’ve run out of ways to say it. Good luck!
          """
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          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
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        }
        +"title": 314135
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2123
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2119 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: "You can’t explain logic so I’m not sure you have an understanding of the arguments you’re attempting to make. I’m not seeing any justification other than “I think it’s it right.” I’ve seen no counters to the quantitative philosophical propositions and a general lack of understanding of any of the things that underpin your belief system. You still haven’t explained why your system is *right*."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2024-01-16 21:30:27.0 +01:00
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          "@return2ozma@lemmy.world"
          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
        ]
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        -bodyTs: "'argument':17 'attempt':20 'belief':61 'counter':41 'explain':4,67 'general':49 'haven':65 'justif':28 'lack':50 'logic':5 'm':8,24 'make':22 'philosoph':45 'proposit':46 'quantit':44 're':19 'right':36,72 'see':26 'seen':39 'still':64 'sure':10 'system':62,70 'thing':57 'think':32 'underpin':59 'understand':14,52 've':38"
        +ranking: 0
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        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705437027 {#2113
          date: 2024-01-16 21:30:27.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 314857
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2198
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2223 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: """
          If it is so self-evident, you should be able to explain why your faith in evidence trumps anyone else’s faith in anything else. You don’t know why you believe what you believe and you’re completely incapable (so far, based on the evidence you’ve provided) of doing anything beyond “James Randi says it so it must be true.” You seem to blindly believe anything anyone in a position of authority states (courts, insurance always right provided they have a modicum of evidence to support their claim). You pound the “evidence trumps everything” pulpit yet can’t explain why, logically, that might make sense.\n
          \n
          You remind me of the evangelicals I’m also not a fan of.
          """
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          "@return2ozma@lemmy.world"
          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2227 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2214 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2225 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2231 …}
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        -id: 315410
        -bodyTs: "'abl':11 'also':117 'alway':79 'anyon':20,70 'anyth':25,53,69 'author':75 'base':44 'believ':33,36,68 'beyond':54 'blind':67 'claim':91 'complet':40 'court':77 'els':21,26 'evangel':114 'everyth':97 'evid':7,18,47,87,95 'explain':13,102 'faith':16,23 'fan':120 'far':43 'incap':41 'insur':78 'jame':55 'know':30 'logic':104 'm':116 'make':107 'might':106 'modicum':85 'must':61 'posit':73 'pound':93 'provid':50,81 'pulpit':98 'randi':56 're':39 'remind':110 'right':80 'say':57 'seem':65 'self':6 'self-evid':5 'sens':108 'state':76 'support':89 'true':63 'trump':19,96 've':49 'yet':99"
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          date: 2024-01-17 00:58:46.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 315410
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2311
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2298 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: """
          Why are 1 and 3 the correct options? Why are they even correct? Why is 2 wrong? You don’t seem to realize any of the foundation you’re building on and you’ve done nothing other than say “if I provide evidence,” that’s enough.\n
          \n
          Here’s a thought experiment. I take you into a closed room, put purple film over a window, and tell you the sky is purple. You’ve now got irrefutable proof that the sky is purple. But wait, you say! I can go outside and find different evidence, so clearly *having evidence alone is not enough*. We could even sidestep the problem by saying that the sky is colorless; it’s the refraction of the light that makes the color. Different frame; different counter.\n
          \n
          So why are you right? Why is your frame correct?
          """
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          date: 2024-01-17 04:14:38.0 +01:00
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          "@return2ozma@lemmy.world"
          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
        ]
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        -id: 315804
        -bodyTs: "'1':3 '2':16 '3':5 'alon':99 'build':30 'clear':96 'close':57 'color':126 'colorless':115 'correct':7,13,140 'could':104 'counter':130 'differ':93,127,129 'done':35 'enough':46,102 'even':12,105 'evid':43,94,98 'experi':51 'film':61 'find':92 'foundat':27 'frame':128,139 'go':89 'got':75 'irrefut':76 'light':122 'make':124 'noth':36 'option':8 'outsid':90 'problem':108 'proof':77 'provid':42 'purpl':60,71,82 'put':59 're':29 'realiz':23 'refract':119 'right':135 'room':58 'say':39,86,110 'seem':21 'sidestep':106 'sky':69,80,113 'take':53 'tell':66 'thought':50 've':34,73 'wait':84 'window':64 'wrong':17"
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    ]
    -id: 30602
    -titleTs: "'2024':5 'believ':17 'human':11 'knowledg':10 'peopl':15 'religion':19 'still':16 'year':4"
    -bodyTs: null
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    +upVotes: 0
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    +apId: "https://lemmy.world/post/10734946"
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705311724 {#3021
      date: 2024-01-15 10:42:04.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2050 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
  +body: "All of this continues to go past you. You want to attack the metaphysical for its belief system yet you completely miss when you make the same logical leaps for yours. How can insurance companies prove something? Why are they *right*? If a court makes a decision, is that the *correct* one? Prove it. Only you can’t use logic or anything that comes from logical systems because, based on your attacks on religion, you’re not allowed to use the faith to prove the faith."
  +lang: "en"
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    date: 2024-01-16 06:08:38.0 +01:00
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    "@return2ozma@lemmy.world"
    "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
    "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
    "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2055 …}
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  -id: 312795
  -bodyTs: "'allow':78 'anyth':62 'attack':12,72 'base':69 'belief':17 'come':64 'compani':35 'complet':21 'continu':4 'correct':51 'court':44 'decis':47 'faith':82,86 'go':6 'insur':34 'leap':29 'logic':28,60,66 'make':25,45 'metaphys':14 'miss':22 'one':52 'past':7 'prove':36,53,84 're':76 'religion':74 'right':41 'someth':37 'system':18,67 'use':59,80 'want':10 'yet':19"
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    date: 2024-01-16 06:08:38.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 312795
}
 
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#2101
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2999 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
    +image: null
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3001 …}
    +slug: "Why-in-the-year-2024-and-with-all-the-knowledge"
    +title: "Why in the year 2024 and with all the knowledge humans have now do people still believe in religion?"
    +url: null
    +body: null
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      date: 2024-01-22 02:19:07.0 +01:00
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    +children: [
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2344
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2141 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: """
          This is a fundamental misunderstanding of Russell’s Teapot. If someone claims there is a teapot floating in space, cool, they need to prove its existence and the rest of us can go around as if one doesn’t exist. If someone claims there isn’t a teapot floating in space, now the burden of proof is on them. We can quickly exercise some critical thinking and realize that, while there might be a teapot in space someone brought with them and left, it’s not going to be beyond the asteroid belt.\n
          \n
          Now do every belief system with empirical evidence. You can’t, primarily because belief in the logic used to prove that empirical evidence is the best evidence is itself a belief system. Changing any one of the axioms that underpin your methodology completely changes the methodology (eg parallel lines meet at infinity turns geometry into hyperbolic geometry). Furthermore, we can extend Gödel’s incompleteness theorems to any formal system, like you’re attempting to employ, and show that they can’t prove themselves.\n
          \n
          In other words, we must take things on faith if we want to use logic and pull out statement related to logic like “burden of proof is on the positive.” You can believe whatever the fuck you want; you just can’t prove it and, in most metaphysical cases, you can’t disprove it either.
          """
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          "@return2ozma@lemmy.world"
          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
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          date: 2024-01-15 19:36:52.0 +01:00
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      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2340
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2341 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: """
          Again, fundamental misunderstanding of Russell’s Teapot. You’re attempting to talk about proof, using the language of logic, to make sweeping claims that logic cannot make.\n
          \n
          If you’re saying we can neither prove nor disprove the metaphysical, we’re on the same page.\n
          \n
          If you’re saying the metaphysical doesn’t exist because no one has proved it and they have to prove it first, you don’t understand how logic, as we understand it today, works.\n
          \n
          Edit: to highlight your issues a little, “it doesn’t exist because it doesn’t exist” isn’t logically sound. Unlike Russell’s Teapot, circular logic is an actual, provable fallacy rather than a rhetorical tool *that is not a result of logic*. More importantly, you’re depending on *logic as a system of faith*, just like religion, unless you’ve found some results that contradict Gödel and company. We’ve made all of it up and, with our understanding today, it is not objective.
          """
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          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
          "@return2ozma@lemmy.world"
          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
        ]
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          date: 2024-08-22 04:21:46.0 +02:00
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          date: 2024-01-15 21:52:02.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 311745
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2072
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2069 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: """
          You’re very focused on religion and seem to be missing all of the points about logic.\n
          \n
          > not saying that … pretty agnostic\n
          \n
          Cool, we’re on the same page.\n
          \n
          > If someone makes a claim… it needs… evidence\n
          \n
          This is problematic without a rigorous definition of evidence. I’m assuming you mean something along the lines of repeatable and independently verifiable since you won’t take a claim at face value. If you’re going to rigorously define evidence, you’re going to need to create a system that can’t contradict itself. Per your quotes, either there is a ball in my hand or there isn’t.\n
          \n
          This is called [a consistent system](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consistency). We agree on a set of axioms that we will achieve results from. If we have a consistent system and build a bunch of results on top of that, eventually we’ll run into things that are true but we cannot prove. We know this [because of a famous result I’ve already mentioned](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del%27s_incompleteness_theorems). In other words, we must take central results on faith. A common one that, several decades ago, was met with ridicule because it was “so illogical” mathematicians had “suspend reality in order for it to make any sense” is [the axiom of choice](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axiom_of_choice).\n
          \n
          In other words, you can’t use logic and reason to say those that believe in religion are idiots because you have just as much proof as they do (just faith) if we accept the basic axioms that drive our logical system.\n
          \n
          > doesn’t exist because it doesn’t exist… isn’t circular logic\n
          \n
          You’re conflating [a tautology](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tautology_(logic)) with [circular reasoning](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning). Circular reasoning boils down to “A because B; B because A;” and you’ve said “A because A” without any support for A. The lack of something in your hand is not necessary and sufficient to prove the ball’s existence. The only claim we can make is that your hand is empty.\n
          \n
          Here is a metaphysical claim for you to chew on: it is possible to know whether or not it is possible to prove a claim.
          """
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        +isAdult: false
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        -id: 312133
        -bodyTs: "'/wiki/axiom_of_choice).':219 '/wiki/circular_reasoning).':287 '/wiki/consistency).':116 '/wiki/g%c3%b6del%27s_incompleteness_theorems).':173 '/wiki/tautology_(logic))':281 'accept':253 'achiev':127 'agnost':22 'ago':190 'agre':118 'along':53 'alreadi':169 'assum':49 'axiom':123,214,256 'b':295,296 'ball':100,326 'basic':255 'believ':234 'boil':290 'build':137 'bunch':139 'call':110 'cannot':157 'central':180 'chew':349 'choic':216 'circular':272,283,288 'claim':34,67,331,345,365 'common':185 'conflat':276 'consist':112,134 'contradict':91 'cool':23 'creat':85 'decad':189 'defin':77 'definit':44 'doesn':262,267 'drive':258 'either':96 'empti':340 'en.wikipedia.org':115,172,218,280,286 'en.wikipedia.org/wiki/axiom_of_choice).':217 'en.wikipedia.org/wiki/circular_reasoning).':285 'en.wikipedia.org/wiki/consistency).':114 'en.wikipedia.org/wiki/g%c3%b6del%27s_incompleteness_theorems).':171 'en.wikipedia.org/wiki/tautology_(logic))':279 'eventu':146 'evid':37,46,78 'exist':264,269,328 'face':69 'faith':183,250 'famous':165 'focus':4 'go':74,81 'hand':103,317,338 'idiot':238 'illog':199 'independ':59 'isn':106,270 'know':160,355 'lack':312 'line':55 'll':148 'logic':17,227,260,273 'm':48 'make':32,209,334 'mathematician':200 'mean':51 'mention':170 'met':192 'metaphys':344 'miss':11 'much':244 'must':178 'necessari':320 'need':36,83 'one':186 'order':205 'page':29 'per':93 'point':15 'possibl':353,361 'pretti':21 'problemat':40 'proof':245 'prove':158,324,363 'quot':95 're':2,25,73,80,275 'realiti':203 'reason':229,284,289 'religion':6,236 'repeat':57 'result':128,141,166,181 'ridicul':194 'rigor':43,76 'run':149 'said':302 'say':19,231 'seem':8 'sens':211 'set':121 'sever':188 'sinc':61 'someon':31 'someth':52,314 'suffici':322 'support':308 'suspend':202 'system':87,113,135,261 'take':65,179 'tautolog':278 'thing':151 'top':143 'true':154 'use':226 'valu':70 've':168,301 'verifi':60 'whether':356 'without':41,306 'won':63 'word':176,222"
        +ranking: 0
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705361715 {#2068
          date: 2024-01-16 00:35:15.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 312133
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2057
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2050 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: "All of this continues to go past you. You want to attack the metaphysical for its belief system yet you completely miss when you make the same logical leaps for yours. How can insurance companies prove something? Why are they *right*? If a court makes a decision, is that the *correct* one? Prove it. Only you can’t use logic or anything that comes from logical systems because, based on your attacks on religion, you’re not allowed to use the faith to prove the faith."
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          date: 2024-01-16 06:08:38.0 +01:00
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          "@return2ozma@lemmy.world"
          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
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        -bodyTs: "'allow':78 'anyth':62 'attack':12,72 'base':69 'belief':17 'come':64 'compani':35 'complet':21 'continu':4 'correct':51 'court':44 'decis':47 'faith':82,86 'go':6 'insur':34 'leap':29 'logic':28,60,66 'make':25,45 'metaphys':14 'miss':22 'one':52 'past':7 'prove':36,53,84 're':76 'religion':74 'right':41 'someth':37 'system':18,67 'use':59,80 'want':10 'yet':19"
        +ranking: 0
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705381718 {#2045
          date: 2024-01-16 06:08:38.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 312795
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2101}
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2123
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
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        +body: "You can’t explain logic so I’m not sure you have an understanding of the arguments you’re attempting to make. I’m not seeing any justification other than “I think it’s it right.” I’ve seen no counters to the quantitative philosophical propositions and a general lack of understanding of any of the things that underpin your belief system. You still haven’t explained why your system is *right*."
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          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
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          date: 2024-01-16 21:30:27.0 +01:00
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2198
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
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        +body: """
          If it is so self-evident, you should be able to explain why your faith in evidence trumps anyone else’s faith in anything else. You don’t know why you believe what you believe and you’re completely incapable (so far, based on the evidence you’ve provided) of doing anything beyond “James Randi says it so it must be true.” You seem to blindly believe anything anyone in a position of authority states (courts, insurance always right provided they have a modicum of evidence to support their claim). You pound the “evidence trumps everything” pulpit yet can’t explain why, logically, that might make sense.\n
          \n
          You remind me of the evangelicals I’m also not a fan of.
          """
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          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
        ]
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          date: 2024-01-17 00:58:46.0 +01:00
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2311
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        +body: """
          Why are 1 and 3 the correct options? Why are they even correct? Why is 2 wrong? You don’t seem to realize any of the foundation you’re building on and you’ve done nothing other than say “if I provide evidence,” that’s enough.\n
          \n
          Here’s a thought experiment. I take you into a closed room, put purple film over a window, and tell you the sky is purple. You’ve now got irrefutable proof that the sky is purple. But wait, you say! I can go outside and find different evidence, so clearly *having evidence alone is not enough*. We could even sidestep the problem by saying that the sky is colorless; it’s the refraction of the light that makes the color. Different frame; different counter.\n
          \n
          So why are you right? Why is your frame correct?
          """
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    -id: 30602
    -titleTs: "'2024':5 'believ':17 'human':11 'knowledg':10 'peopl':15 'religion':19 'still':16 'year':4"
    -bodyTs: null
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    +apId: "https://lemmy.world/post/10734946"
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705311724 {#3021
      date: 2024-01-15 10:42:04.0 +01:00
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    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
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  +body: """
    You haven’t shown that an insurance decision is correct. You also didn’t show that a court decision is right. You’re not seeing the forest for the trees.\n
    \n
    Your faith is that evidence trumps all. That is a baseless claim unless you can prove it *without the structures of evidence-based discourse*. You are using logic to prove your statements which is logically equivalent to “god said so.” You argue your beliefs trump theirs; you are equivalent using your foundation. Your religion is logic which, as I have pointed out many times without comment from you, is just as made up as any religion and more importantly has the introspective capabilities to prove so.\n
    \n
    This is a fairly straightforward epistemological argument; I’ve run out of ways to say it. Good luck!
    """
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}
 
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91 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2101
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3001 …}
    +slug: "Why-in-the-year-2024-and-with-all-the-knowledge"
    +title: "Why in the year 2024 and with all the knowledge humans have now do people still believe in religion?"
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    +children: [
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2344
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: """
          This is a fundamental misunderstanding of Russell’s Teapot. If someone claims there is a teapot floating in space, cool, they need to prove its existence and the rest of us can go around as if one doesn’t exist. If someone claims there isn’t a teapot floating in space, now the burden of proof is on them. We can quickly exercise some critical thinking and realize that, while there might be a teapot in space someone brought with them and left, it’s not going to be beyond the asteroid belt.\n
          \n
          Now do every belief system with empirical evidence. You can’t, primarily because belief in the logic used to prove that empirical evidence is the best evidence is itself a belief system. Changing any one of the axioms that underpin your methodology completely changes the methodology (eg parallel lines meet at infinity turns geometry into hyperbolic geometry). Furthermore, we can extend Gödel’s incompleteness theorems to any formal system, like you’re attempting to employ, and show that they can’t prove themselves.\n
          \n
          In other words, we must take things on faith if we want to use logic and pull out statement related to logic like “burden of proof is on the positive.” You can believe whatever the fuck you want; you just can’t prove it and, in most metaphysical cases, you can’t disprove it either.
          """
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2341 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: """
          Again, fundamental misunderstanding of Russell’s Teapot. You’re attempting to talk about proof, using the language of logic, to make sweeping claims that logic cannot make.\n
          \n
          If you’re saying we can neither prove nor disprove the metaphysical, we’re on the same page.\n
          \n
          If you’re saying the metaphysical doesn’t exist because no one has proved it and they have to prove it first, you don’t understand how logic, as we understand it today, works.\n
          \n
          Edit: to highlight your issues a little, “it doesn’t exist because it doesn’t exist” isn’t logically sound. Unlike Russell’s Teapot, circular logic is an actual, provable fallacy rather than a rhetorical tool *that is not a result of logic*. More importantly, you’re depending on *logic as a system of faith*, just like religion, unless you’ve found some results that contradict Gödel and company. We’ve made all of it up and, with our understanding today, it is not objective.
          """
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          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
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          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
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          date: 2024-08-22 04:21:46.0 +02:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705351922 {#2334
          date: 2024-01-15 21:52:02.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 311745
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2072
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2069 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: """
          You’re very focused on religion and seem to be missing all of the points about logic.\n
          \n
          > not saying that … pretty agnostic\n
          \n
          Cool, we’re on the same page.\n
          \n
          > If someone makes a claim… it needs… evidence\n
          \n
          This is problematic without a rigorous definition of evidence. I’m assuming you mean something along the lines of repeatable and independently verifiable since you won’t take a claim at face value. If you’re going to rigorously define evidence, you’re going to need to create a system that can’t contradict itself. Per your quotes, either there is a ball in my hand or there isn’t.\n
          \n
          This is called [a consistent system](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consistency). We agree on a set of axioms that we will achieve results from. If we have a consistent system and build a bunch of results on top of that, eventually we’ll run into things that are true but we cannot prove. We know this [because of a famous result I’ve already mentioned](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del%27s_incompleteness_theorems). In other words, we must take central results on faith. A common one that, several decades ago, was met with ridicule because it was “so illogical” mathematicians had “suspend reality in order for it to make any sense” is [the axiom of choice](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axiom_of_choice).\n
          \n
          In other words, you can’t use logic and reason to say those that believe in religion are idiots because you have just as much proof as they do (just faith) if we accept the basic axioms that drive our logical system.\n
          \n
          > doesn’t exist because it doesn’t exist… isn’t circular logic\n
          \n
          You’re conflating [a tautology](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tautology_(logic)) with [circular reasoning](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning). Circular reasoning boils down to “A because B; B because A;” and you’ve said “A because A” without any support for A. The lack of something in your hand is not necessary and sufficient to prove the ball’s existence. The only claim we can make is that your hand is empty.\n
          \n
          Here is a metaphysical claim for you to chew on: it is possible to know whether or not it is possible to prove a claim.
          """
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        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://programming.dev/comment/6494185"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705361715 {#2068
          date: 2024-01-16 00:35:15.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 312133
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      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2057
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2050 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: "All of this continues to go past you. You want to attack the metaphysical for its belief system yet you completely miss when you make the same logical leaps for yours. How can insurance companies prove something? Why are they *right*? If a court makes a decision, is that the *correct* one? Prove it. Only you can’t use logic or anything that comes from logical systems because, based on your attacks on religion, you’re not allowed to use the faith to prove the faith."
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          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
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        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2024-01-16 06:08:38.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 312795
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2101}
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2123
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2119 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: "You can’t explain logic so I’m not sure you have an understanding of the arguments you’re attempting to make. I’m not seeing any justification other than “I think it’s it right.” I’ve seen no counters to the quantitative philosophical propositions and a general lack of understanding of any of the things that underpin your belief system. You still haven’t explained why your system is *right*."
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          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
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          date: 2024-01-16 21:30:27.0 +01:00
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2198
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2223 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: """
          If it is so self-evident, you should be able to explain why your faith in evidence trumps anyone else’s faith in anything else. You don’t know why you believe what you believe and you’re completely incapable (so far, based on the evidence you’ve provided) of doing anything beyond “James Randi says it so it must be true.” You seem to blindly believe anything anyone in a position of authority states (courts, insurance always right provided they have a modicum of evidence to support their claim). You pound the “evidence trumps everything” pulpit yet can’t explain why, logically, that might make sense.\n
          \n
          You remind me of the evangelicals I’m also not a fan of.
          """
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          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
        ]
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        -id: 315410
        -bodyTs: "'abl':11 'also':117 'alway':79 'anyon':20,70 'anyth':25,53,69 'author':75 'base':44 'believ':33,36,68 'beyond':54 'blind':67 'claim':91 'complet':40 'court':77 'els':21,26 'evangel':114 'everyth':97 'evid':7,18,47,87,95 'explain':13,102 'faith':16,23 'fan':120 'far':43 'incap':41 'insur':78 'jame':55 'know':30 'logic':104 'm':116 'make':107 'might':106 'modicum':85 'must':61 'posit':73 'pound':93 'provid':50,81 'pulpit':98 'randi':56 're':39 'remind':110 'right':80 'say':57 'seem':65 'self':6 'self-evid':5 'sens':108 'state':76 'support':89 'true':63 'trump':19,96 've':49 'yet':99"
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          date: 2024-01-17 00:58:46.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 315410
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2311
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2298 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: """
          Why are 1 and 3 the correct options? Why are they even correct? Why is 2 wrong? You don’t seem to realize any of the foundation you’re building on and you’ve done nothing other than say “if I provide evidence,” that’s enough.\n
          \n
          Here’s a thought experiment. I take you into a closed room, put purple film over a window, and tell you the sky is purple. You’ve now got irrefutable proof that the sky is purple. But wait, you say! I can go outside and find different evidence, so clearly *having evidence alone is not enough*. We could even sidestep the problem by saying that the sky is colorless; it’s the refraction of the light that makes the color. Different frame; different counter.\n
          \n
          So why are you right? Why is your frame correct?
          """
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          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
        ]
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      date: 2024-01-15 10:42:04.0 +01:00
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     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2102 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
  +body: """
    You haven’t shown that an insurance decision is correct. You also didn’t show that a court decision is right. You’re not seeing the forest for the trees.\n
    \n
    Your faith is that evidence trumps all. That is a baseless claim unless you can prove it *without the structures of evidence-based discourse*. You are using logic to prove your statements which is logically equivalent to “god said so.” You argue your beliefs trump theirs; you are equivalent using your foundation. Your religion is logic which, as I have pointed out many times without comment from you, is just as made up as any religion and more importantly has the introspective capabilities to prove so.\n
    \n
    This is a fairly straightforward epistemological argument; I’ve run out of ways to say it. Good luck!
    """
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    "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
    "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
    "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
  ]
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    date: 2024-01-16 17:22:56.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 314135
}
 
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"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
92 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2101
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349
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    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
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    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3001 …}
    +slug: "Why-in-the-year-2024-and-with-all-the-knowledge"
    +title: "Why in the year 2024 and with all the knowledge humans have now do people still believe in religion?"
    +url: null
    +body: null
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      date: 2024-01-22 02:19:07.0 +01:00
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      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2344
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: """
          This is a fundamental misunderstanding of Russell’s Teapot. If someone claims there is a teapot floating in space, cool, they need to prove its existence and the rest of us can go around as if one doesn’t exist. If someone claims there isn’t a teapot floating in space, now the burden of proof is on them. We can quickly exercise some critical thinking and realize that, while there might be a teapot in space someone brought with them and left, it’s not going to be beyond the asteroid belt.\n
          \n
          Now do every belief system with empirical evidence. You can’t, primarily because belief in the logic used to prove that empirical evidence is the best evidence is itself a belief system. Changing any one of the axioms that underpin your methodology completely changes the methodology (eg parallel lines meet at infinity turns geometry into hyperbolic geometry). Furthermore, we can extend Gödel’s incompleteness theorems to any formal system, like you’re attempting to employ, and show that they can’t prove themselves.\n
          \n
          In other words, we must take things on faith if we want to use logic and pull out statement related to logic like “burden of proof is on the positive.” You can believe whatever the fuck you want; you just can’t prove it and, in most metaphysical cases, you can’t disprove it either.
          """
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          date: 2024-01-15 19:36:52.0 +01:00
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      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2340
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
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        +body: """
          Again, fundamental misunderstanding of Russell’s Teapot. You’re attempting to talk about proof, using the language of logic, to make sweeping claims that logic cannot make.\n
          \n
          If you’re saying we can neither prove nor disprove the metaphysical, we’re on the same page.\n
          \n
          If you’re saying the metaphysical doesn’t exist because no one has proved it and they have to prove it first, you don’t understand how logic, as we understand it today, works.\n
          \n
          Edit: to highlight your issues a little, “it doesn’t exist because it doesn’t exist” isn’t logically sound. Unlike Russell’s Teapot, circular logic is an actual, provable fallacy rather than a rhetorical tool *that is not a result of logic*. More importantly, you’re depending on *logic as a system of faith*, just like religion, unless you’ve found some results that contradict Gödel and company. We’ve made all of it up and, with our understanding today, it is not objective.
          """
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          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
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          date: 2024-08-22 04:21:46.0 +02:00
        }
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          date: 2024-01-15 21:52:02.0 +01:00
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      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2072
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
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        +body: """
          You’re very focused on religion and seem to be missing all of the points about logic.\n
          \n
          > not saying that … pretty agnostic\n
          \n
          Cool, we’re on the same page.\n
          \n
          > If someone makes a claim… it needs… evidence\n
          \n
          This is problematic without a rigorous definition of evidence. I’m assuming you mean something along the lines of repeatable and independently verifiable since you won’t take a claim at face value. If you’re going to rigorously define evidence, you’re going to need to create a system that can’t contradict itself. Per your quotes, either there is a ball in my hand or there isn’t.\n
          \n
          This is called [a consistent system](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consistency). We agree on a set of axioms that we will achieve results from. If we have a consistent system and build a bunch of results on top of that, eventually we’ll run into things that are true but we cannot prove. We know this [because of a famous result I’ve already mentioned](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del%27s_incompleteness_theorems). In other words, we must take central results on faith. A common one that, several decades ago, was met with ridicule because it was “so illogical” mathematicians had “suspend reality in order for it to make any sense” is [the axiom of choice](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axiom_of_choice).\n
          \n
          In other words, you can’t use logic and reason to say those that believe in religion are idiots because you have just as much proof as they do (just faith) if we accept the basic axioms that drive our logical system.\n
          \n
          > doesn’t exist because it doesn’t exist… isn’t circular logic\n
          \n
          You’re conflating [a tautology](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tautology_(logic)) with [circular reasoning](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning). Circular reasoning boils down to “A because B; B because A;” and you’ve said “A because A” without any support for A. The lack of something in your hand is not necessary and sufficient to prove the ball’s existence. The only claim we can make is that your hand is empty.\n
          \n
          Here is a metaphysical claim for you to chew on: it is possible to know whether or not it is possible to prove a claim.
          """
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      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2057
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        +body: "All of this continues to go past you. You want to attack the metaphysical for its belief system yet you completely miss when you make the same logical leaps for yours. How can insurance companies prove something? Why are they *right*? If a court makes a decision, is that the *correct* one? Prove it. Only you can’t use logic or anything that comes from logical systems because, based on your attacks on religion, you’re not allowed to use the faith to prove the faith."
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          "@return2ozma@lemmy.world"
          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
        ]
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        +"title": 312795
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2101}
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2123
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
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        +body: "You can’t explain logic so I’m not sure you have an understanding of the arguments you’re attempting to make. I’m not seeing any justification other than “I think it’s it right.” I’ve seen no counters to the quantitative philosophical propositions and a general lack of understanding of any of the things that underpin your belief system. You still haven’t explained why your system is *right*."
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          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2198
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
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        +body: """
          If it is so self-evident, you should be able to explain why your faith in evidence trumps anyone else’s faith in anything else. You don’t know why you believe what you believe and you’re completely incapable (so far, based on the evidence you’ve provided) of doing anything beyond “James Randi says it so it must be true.” You seem to blindly believe anything anyone in a position of authority states (courts, insurance always right provided they have a modicum of evidence to support their claim). You pound the “evidence trumps everything” pulpit yet can’t explain why, logically, that might make sense.\n
          \n
          You remind me of the evangelicals I’m also not a fan of.
          """
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          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
        ]
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        -id: 315410
        -bodyTs: "'abl':11 'also':117 'alway':79 'anyon':20,70 'anyth':25,53,69 'author':75 'base':44 'believ':33,36,68 'beyond':54 'blind':67 'claim':91 'complet':40 'court':77 'els':21,26 'evangel':114 'everyth':97 'evid':7,18,47,87,95 'explain':13,102 'faith':16,23 'fan':120 'far':43 'incap':41 'insur':78 'jame':55 'know':30 'logic':104 'm':116 'make':107 'might':106 'modicum':85 'must':61 'posit':73 'pound':93 'provid':50,81 'pulpit':98 'randi':56 're':39 'remind':110 'right':80 'say':57 'seem':65 'self':6 'self-evid':5 'sens':108 'state':76 'support':89 'true':63 'trump':19,96 've':49 'yet':99"
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2311
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
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        +body: """
          Why are 1 and 3 the correct options? Why are they even correct? Why is 2 wrong? You don’t seem to realize any of the foundation you’re building on and you’ve done nothing other than say “if I provide evidence,” that’s enough.\n
          \n
          Here’s a thought experiment. I take you into a closed room, put purple film over a window, and tell you the sky is purple. You’ve now got irrefutable proof that the sky is purple. But wait, you say! I can go outside and find different evidence, so clearly *having evidence alone is not enough*. We could even sidestep the problem by saying that the sky is colorless; it’s the refraction of the light that makes the color. Different frame; different counter.\n
          \n
          So why are you right? Why is your frame correct?
          """
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          date: 2024-01-17 04:14:38.0 +01:00
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      date: 2024-01-15 10:42:04.0 +01:00
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     …2
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  +body: """
    You haven’t shown that an insurance decision is correct. You also didn’t show that a court decision is right. You’re not seeing the forest for the trees.\n
    \n
    Your faith is that evidence trumps all. That is a baseless claim unless you can prove it *without the structures of evidence-based discourse*. You are using logic to prove your statements which is logically equivalent to “god said so.” You argue your beliefs trump theirs; you are equivalent using your foundation. Your religion is logic which, as I have pointed out many times without comment from you, is just as made up as any religion and more importantly has the introspective capabilities to prove so.\n
    \n
    This is a fairly straightforward epistemological argument; I’ve run out of ways to say it. Good luck!
    """
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    "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
    "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
    "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
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}
 
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#2123
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    +slug: "Why-in-the-year-2024-and-with-all-the-knowledge"
    +title: "Why in the year 2024 and with all the knowledge humans have now do people still believe in religion?"
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        +body: """
          This is a fundamental misunderstanding of Russell’s Teapot. If someone claims there is a teapot floating in space, cool, they need to prove its existence and the rest of us can go around as if one doesn’t exist. If someone claims there isn’t a teapot floating in space, now the burden of proof is on them. We can quickly exercise some critical thinking and realize that, while there might be a teapot in space someone brought with them and left, it’s not going to be beyond the asteroid belt.\n
          \n
          Now do every belief system with empirical evidence. You can’t, primarily because belief in the logic used to prove that empirical evidence is the best evidence is itself a belief system. Changing any one of the axioms that underpin your methodology completely changes the methodology (eg parallel lines meet at infinity turns geometry into hyperbolic geometry). Furthermore, we can extend Gödel’s incompleteness theorems to any formal system, like you’re attempting to employ, and show that they can’t prove themselves.\n
          \n
          In other words, we must take things on faith if we want to use logic and pull out statement related to logic like “burden of proof is on the positive.” You can believe whatever the fuck you want; you just can’t prove it and, in most metaphysical cases, you can’t disprove it either.
          """
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      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2340
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          Again, fundamental misunderstanding of Russell’s Teapot. You’re attempting to talk about proof, using the language of logic, to make sweeping claims that logic cannot make.\n
          \n
          If you’re saying we can neither prove nor disprove the metaphysical, we’re on the same page.\n
          \n
          If you’re saying the metaphysical doesn’t exist because no one has proved it and they have to prove it first, you don’t understand how logic, as we understand it today, works.\n
          \n
          Edit: to highlight your issues a little, “it doesn’t exist because it doesn’t exist” isn’t logically sound. Unlike Russell’s Teapot, circular logic is an actual, provable fallacy rather than a rhetorical tool *that is not a result of logic*. More importantly, you’re depending on *logic as a system of faith*, just like religion, unless you’ve found some results that contradict Gödel and company. We’ve made all of it up and, with our understanding today, it is not objective.
          """
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          date: 2024-01-15 21:52:02.0 +01:00
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      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2072
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        +body: """
          You’re very focused on religion and seem to be missing all of the points about logic.\n
          \n
          > not saying that … pretty agnostic\n
          \n
          Cool, we’re on the same page.\n
          \n
          > If someone makes a claim… it needs… evidence\n
          \n
          This is problematic without a rigorous definition of evidence. I’m assuming you mean something along the lines of repeatable and independently verifiable since you won’t take a claim at face value. If you’re going to rigorously define evidence, you’re going to need to create a system that can’t contradict itself. Per your quotes, either there is a ball in my hand or there isn’t.\n
          \n
          This is called [a consistent system](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consistency). We agree on a set of axioms that we will achieve results from. If we have a consistent system and build a bunch of results on top of that, eventually we’ll run into things that are true but we cannot prove. We know this [because of a famous result I’ve already mentioned](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del%27s_incompleteness_theorems). In other words, we must take central results on faith. A common one that, several decades ago, was met with ridicule because it was “so illogical” mathematicians had “suspend reality in order for it to make any sense” is [the axiom of choice](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axiom_of_choice).\n
          \n
          In other words, you can’t use logic and reason to say those that believe in religion are idiots because you have just as much proof as they do (just faith) if we accept the basic axioms that drive our logical system.\n
          \n
          > doesn’t exist because it doesn’t exist… isn’t circular logic\n
          \n
          You’re conflating [a tautology](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tautology_(logic)) with [circular reasoning](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning). Circular reasoning boils down to “A because B; B because A;” and you’ve said “A because A” without any support for A. The lack of something in your hand is not necessary and sufficient to prove the ball’s existence. The only claim we can make is that your hand is empty.\n
          \n
          Here is a metaphysical claim for you to chew on: it is possible to know whether or not it is possible to prove a claim.
          """
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        +body: "All of this continues to go past you. You want to attack the metaphysical for its belief system yet you completely miss when you make the same logical leaps for yours. How can insurance companies prove something? Why are they *right*? If a court makes a decision, is that the *correct* one? Prove it. Only you can’t use logic or anything that comes from logical systems because, based on your attacks on religion, you’re not allowed to use the faith to prove the faith."
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2101
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        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2102 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: """
          You haven’t shown that an insurance decision is correct. You also didn’t show that a court decision is right. You’re not seeing the forest for the trees.\n
          \n
          Your faith is that evidence trumps all. That is a baseless claim unless you can prove it *without the structures of evidence-based discourse*. You are using logic to prove your statements which is logically equivalent to “god said so.” You argue your beliefs trump theirs; you are equivalent using your foundation. Your religion is logic which, as I have pointed out many times without comment from you, is just as made up as any religion and more importantly has the introspective capabilities to prove so.\n
          \n
          This is a fairly straightforward epistemological argument; I’ve run out of ways to say it. Good luck!
          """
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          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
        ]
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          date: 2024-01-16 17:22:56.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 314135
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2123}
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2198
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2223 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: """
          If it is so self-evident, you should be able to explain why your faith in evidence trumps anyone else’s faith in anything else. You don’t know why you believe what you believe and you’re completely incapable (so far, based on the evidence you’ve provided) of doing anything beyond “James Randi says it so it must be true.” You seem to blindly believe anything anyone in a position of authority states (courts, insurance always right provided they have a modicum of evidence to support their claim). You pound the “evidence trumps everything” pulpit yet can’t explain why, logically, that might make sense.\n
          \n
          You remind me of the evangelicals I’m also not a fan of.
          """
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          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
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          date: 2024-01-17 00:58:46.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 315410
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2311
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2298 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: """
          Why are 1 and 3 the correct options? Why are they even correct? Why is 2 wrong? You don’t seem to realize any of the foundation you’re building on and you’ve done nothing other than say “if I provide evidence,” that’s enough.\n
          \n
          Here’s a thought experiment. I take you into a closed room, put purple film over a window, and tell you the sky is purple. You’ve now got irrefutable proof that the sky is purple. But wait, you say! I can go outside and find different evidence, so clearly *having evidence alone is not enough*. We could even sidestep the problem by saying that the sky is colorless; it’s the refraction of the light that makes the color. Different frame; different counter.\n
          \n
          So why are you right? Why is your frame correct?
          """
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          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
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    ]
    -id: 30602
    -titleTs: "'2024':5 'believ':17 'human':11 'knowledg':10 'peopl':15 'religion':19 'still':16 'year':4"
    -bodyTs: null
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    +apId: "https://lemmy.world/post/10734946"
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705311724 {#3021
      date: 2024-01-15 10:42:04.0 +01:00
    }
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     …2
  }
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  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
  +body: "You can’t explain logic so I’m not sure you have an understanding of the arguments you’re attempting to make. I’m not seeing any justification other than “I think it’s it right.” I’ve seen no counters to the quantitative philosophical propositions and a general lack of understanding of any of the things that underpin your belief system. You still haven’t explained why your system is *right*."
  +lang: "en"
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    "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
    "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
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    date: 2024-01-16 21:30:27.0 +01:00
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  +"title": 314857
}
 
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95 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2123
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2999 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
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    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3001 …}
    +slug: "Why-in-the-year-2024-and-with-all-the-knowledge"
    +title: "Why in the year 2024 and with all the knowledge humans have now do people still believe in religion?"
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      date: 2024-01-22 02:19:07.0 +01:00
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    +children: [
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2344
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2141 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: """
          This is a fundamental misunderstanding of Russell’s Teapot. If someone claims there is a teapot floating in space, cool, they need to prove its existence and the rest of us can go around as if one doesn’t exist. If someone claims there isn’t a teapot floating in space, now the burden of proof is on them. We can quickly exercise some critical thinking and realize that, while there might be a teapot in space someone brought with them and left, it’s not going to be beyond the asteroid belt.\n
          \n
          Now do every belief system with empirical evidence. You can’t, primarily because belief in the logic used to prove that empirical evidence is the best evidence is itself a belief system. Changing any one of the axioms that underpin your methodology completely changes the methodology (eg parallel lines meet at infinity turns geometry into hyperbolic geometry). Furthermore, we can extend Gödel’s incompleteness theorems to any formal system, like you’re attempting to employ, and show that they can’t prove themselves.\n
          \n
          In other words, we must take things on faith if we want to use logic and pull out statement related to logic like “burden of proof is on the positive.” You can believe whatever the fuck you want; you just can’t prove it and, in most metaphysical cases, you can’t disprove it either.
          """
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          date: 2024-01-15 19:36:52.0 +01:00
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      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2340
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2341 …}
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        +body: """
          Again, fundamental misunderstanding of Russell’s Teapot. You’re attempting to talk about proof, using the language of logic, to make sweeping claims that logic cannot make.\n
          \n
          If you’re saying we can neither prove nor disprove the metaphysical, we’re on the same page.\n
          \n
          If you’re saying the metaphysical doesn’t exist because no one has proved it and they have to prove it first, you don’t understand how logic, as we understand it today, works.\n
          \n
          Edit: to highlight your issues a little, “it doesn’t exist because it doesn’t exist” isn’t logically sound. Unlike Russell’s Teapot, circular logic is an actual, provable fallacy rather than a rhetorical tool *that is not a result of logic*. More importantly, you’re depending on *logic as a system of faith*, just like religion, unless you’ve found some results that contradict Gödel and company. We’ve made all of it up and, with our understanding today, it is not objective.
          """
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          "@return2ozma@lemmy.world"
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          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
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          date: 2024-08-22 04:21:46.0 +02:00
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          date: 2024-01-15 21:52:02.0 +01:00
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      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2072
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2069 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: """
          You’re very focused on religion and seem to be missing all of the points about logic.\n
          \n
          > not saying that … pretty agnostic\n
          \n
          Cool, we’re on the same page.\n
          \n
          > If someone makes a claim… it needs… evidence\n
          \n
          This is problematic without a rigorous definition of evidence. I’m assuming you mean something along the lines of repeatable and independently verifiable since you won’t take a claim at face value. If you’re going to rigorously define evidence, you’re going to need to create a system that can’t contradict itself. Per your quotes, either there is a ball in my hand or there isn’t.\n
          \n
          This is called [a consistent system](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consistency). We agree on a set of axioms that we will achieve results from. If we have a consistent system and build a bunch of results on top of that, eventually we’ll run into things that are true but we cannot prove. We know this [because of a famous result I’ve already mentioned](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del%27s_incompleteness_theorems). In other words, we must take central results on faith. A common one that, several decades ago, was met with ridicule because it was “so illogical” mathematicians had “suspend reality in order for it to make any sense” is [the axiom of choice](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axiom_of_choice).\n
          \n
          In other words, you can’t use logic and reason to say those that believe in religion are idiots because you have just as much proof as they do (just faith) if we accept the basic axioms that drive our logical system.\n
          \n
          > doesn’t exist because it doesn’t exist… isn’t circular logic\n
          \n
          You’re conflating [a tautology](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tautology_(logic)) with [circular reasoning](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning). Circular reasoning boils down to “A because B; B because A;” and you’ve said “A because A” without any support for A. The lack of something in your hand is not necessary and sufficient to prove the ball’s existence. The only claim we can make is that your hand is empty.\n
          \n
          Here is a metaphysical claim for you to chew on: it is possible to know whether or not it is possible to prove a claim.
          """
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        -id: 312133
        -bodyTs: "'/wiki/axiom_of_choice).':219 '/wiki/circular_reasoning).':287 '/wiki/consistency).':116 '/wiki/g%c3%b6del%27s_incompleteness_theorems).':173 '/wiki/tautology_(logic))':281 'accept':253 'achiev':127 'agnost':22 'ago':190 'agre':118 'along':53 'alreadi':169 'assum':49 'axiom':123,214,256 'b':295,296 'ball':100,326 'basic':255 'believ':234 'boil':290 'build':137 'bunch':139 'call':110 'cannot':157 'central':180 'chew':349 'choic':216 'circular':272,283,288 'claim':34,67,331,345,365 'common':185 'conflat':276 'consist':112,134 'contradict':91 'cool':23 'creat':85 'decad':189 'defin':77 'definit':44 'doesn':262,267 'drive':258 'either':96 'empti':340 'en.wikipedia.org':115,172,218,280,286 'en.wikipedia.org/wiki/axiom_of_choice).':217 'en.wikipedia.org/wiki/circular_reasoning).':285 'en.wikipedia.org/wiki/consistency).':114 'en.wikipedia.org/wiki/g%c3%b6del%27s_incompleteness_theorems).':171 'en.wikipedia.org/wiki/tautology_(logic))':279 'eventu':146 'evid':37,46,78 'exist':264,269,328 'face':69 'faith':183,250 'famous':165 'focus':4 'go':74,81 'hand':103,317,338 'idiot':238 'illog':199 'independ':59 'isn':106,270 'know':160,355 'lack':312 'line':55 'll':148 'logic':17,227,260,273 'm':48 'make':32,209,334 'mathematician':200 'mean':51 'mention':170 'met':192 'metaphys':344 'miss':11 'much':244 'must':178 'necessari':320 'need':36,83 'one':186 'order':205 'page':29 'per':93 'point':15 'possibl':353,361 'pretti':21 'problemat':40 'proof':245 'prove':158,324,363 'quot':95 're':2,25,73,80,275 'realiti':203 'reason':229,284,289 'religion':6,236 'repeat':57 'result':128,141,166,181 'ridicul':194 'rigor':43,76 'run':149 'said':302 'say':19,231 'seem':8 'sens':211 'set':121 'sever':188 'sinc':61 'someon':31 'someth':52,314 'suffici':322 'support':308 'suspend':202 'system':87,113,135,261 'take':65,179 'tautolog':278 'thing':151 'top':143 'true':154 'use':226 'valu':70 've':168,301 'verifi':60 'whether':356 'without':41,306 'won':63 'word':176,222"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://programming.dev/comment/6494185"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705361715 {#2068
          date: 2024-01-16 00:35:15.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 312133
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2057
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2050 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: "All of this continues to go past you. You want to attack the metaphysical for its belief system yet you completely miss when you make the same logical leaps for yours. How can insurance companies prove something? Why are they *right*? If a court makes a decision, is that the *correct* one? Prove it. Only you can’t use logic or anything that comes from logical systems because, based on your attacks on religion, you’re not allowed to use the faith to prove the faith."
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          date: 2024-01-16 06:08:38.0 +01:00
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          "@return2ozma@lemmy.world"
          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
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        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705381718 {#2045
          date: 2024-01-16 06:08:38.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 312795
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2101
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2102 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: """
          You haven’t shown that an insurance decision is correct. You also didn’t show that a court decision is right. You’re not seeing the forest for the trees.\n
          \n
          Your faith is that evidence trumps all. That is a baseless claim unless you can prove it *without the structures of evidence-based discourse*. You are using logic to prove your statements which is logically equivalent to “god said so.” You argue your beliefs trump theirs; you are equivalent using your foundation. Your religion is logic which, as I have pointed out many times without comment from you, is just as made up as any religion and more importantly has the introspective capabilities to prove so.\n
          \n
          This is a fairly straightforward epistemological argument; I’ve run out of ways to say it. Good luck!
          """
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          "@return2ozma@lemmy.world"
          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
        ]
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          date: 2024-01-16 17:22:56.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 314135
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2123}
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2198
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2223 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: """
          If it is so self-evident, you should be able to explain why your faith in evidence trumps anyone else’s faith in anything else. You don’t know why you believe what you believe and you’re completely incapable (so far, based on the evidence you’ve provided) of doing anything beyond “James Randi says it so it must be true.” You seem to blindly believe anything anyone in a position of authority states (courts, insurance always right provided they have a modicum of evidence to support their claim). You pound the “evidence trumps everything” pulpit yet can’t explain why, logically, that might make sense.\n
          \n
          You remind me of the evangelicals I’m also not a fan of.
          """
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          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
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          date: 2024-01-17 00:58:46.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 315410
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2311
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2298 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: """
          Why are 1 and 3 the correct options? Why are they even correct? Why is 2 wrong? You don’t seem to realize any of the foundation you’re building on and you’ve done nothing other than say “if I provide evidence,” that’s enough.\n
          \n
          Here’s a thought experiment. I take you into a closed room, put purple film over a window, and tell you the sky is purple. You’ve now got irrefutable proof that the sky is purple. But wait, you say! I can go outside and find different evidence, so clearly *having evidence alone is not enough*. We could even sidestep the problem by saying that the sky is colorless; it’s the refraction of the light that makes the color. Different frame; different counter.\n
          \n
          So why are you right? Why is your frame correct?
          """
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          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
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    ]
    -id: 30602
    -titleTs: "'2024':5 'believ':17 'human':11 'knowledg':10 'peopl':15 'religion':19 'still':16 'year':4"
    -bodyTs: null
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    +apId: "https://lemmy.world/post/10734946"
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      date: 2024-01-15 10:42:04.0 +01:00
    }
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     …2
  }
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  +body: "You can’t explain logic so I’m not sure you have an understanding of the arguments you’re attempting to make. I’m not seeing any justification other than “I think it’s it right.” I’ve seen no counters to the quantitative philosophical propositions and a general lack of understanding of any of the things that underpin your belief system. You still haven’t explained why your system is *right*."
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    "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
    "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
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    date: 2024-01-16 21:30:27.0 +01:00
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  +"title": 314857
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
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"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
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"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
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Show voter details
96 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2123
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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    +slug: "Why-in-the-year-2024-and-with-all-the-knowledge"
    +title: "Why in the year 2024 and with all the knowledge humans have now do people still believe in religion?"
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    +children: [
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2344
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
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        +body: """
          This is a fundamental misunderstanding of Russell’s Teapot. If someone claims there is a teapot floating in space, cool, they need to prove its existence and the rest of us can go around as if one doesn’t exist. If someone claims there isn’t a teapot floating in space, now the burden of proof is on them. We can quickly exercise some critical thinking and realize that, while there might be a teapot in space someone brought with them and left, it’s not going to be beyond the asteroid belt.\n
          \n
          Now do every belief system with empirical evidence. You can’t, primarily because belief in the logic used to prove that empirical evidence is the best evidence is itself a belief system. Changing any one of the axioms that underpin your methodology completely changes the methodology (eg parallel lines meet at infinity turns geometry into hyperbolic geometry). Furthermore, we can extend Gödel’s incompleteness theorems to any formal system, like you’re attempting to employ, and show that they can’t prove themselves.\n
          \n
          In other words, we must take things on faith if we want to use logic and pull out statement related to logic like “burden of proof is on the positive.” You can believe whatever the fuck you want; you just can’t prove it and, in most metaphysical cases, you can’t disprove it either.
          """
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          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
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          date: 2024-01-15 19:36:52.0 +01:00
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      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2340
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2341 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: """
          Again, fundamental misunderstanding of Russell’s Teapot. You’re attempting to talk about proof, using the language of logic, to make sweeping claims that logic cannot make.\n
          \n
          If you’re saying we can neither prove nor disprove the metaphysical, we’re on the same page.\n
          \n
          If you’re saying the metaphysical doesn’t exist because no one has proved it and they have to prove it first, you don’t understand how logic, as we understand it today, works.\n
          \n
          Edit: to highlight your issues a little, “it doesn’t exist because it doesn’t exist” isn’t logically sound. Unlike Russell’s Teapot, circular logic is an actual, provable fallacy rather than a rhetorical tool *that is not a result of logic*. More importantly, you’re depending on *logic as a system of faith*, just like religion, unless you’ve found some results that contradict Gödel and company. We’ve made all of it up and, with our understanding today, it is not objective.
          """
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          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
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          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
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          date: 2024-08-22 04:21:46.0 +02:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705351922 {#2334
          date: 2024-01-15 21:52:02.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 311745
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2072
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2069 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: """
          You’re very focused on religion and seem to be missing all of the points about logic.\n
          \n
          > not saying that … pretty agnostic\n
          \n
          Cool, we’re on the same page.\n
          \n
          > If someone makes a claim… it needs… evidence\n
          \n
          This is problematic without a rigorous definition of evidence. I’m assuming you mean something along the lines of repeatable and independently verifiable since you won’t take a claim at face value. If you’re going to rigorously define evidence, you’re going to need to create a system that can’t contradict itself. Per your quotes, either there is a ball in my hand or there isn’t.\n
          \n
          This is called [a consistent system](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consistency). We agree on a set of axioms that we will achieve results from. If we have a consistent system and build a bunch of results on top of that, eventually we’ll run into things that are true but we cannot prove. We know this [because of a famous result I’ve already mentioned](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del%27s_incompleteness_theorems). In other words, we must take central results on faith. A common one that, several decades ago, was met with ridicule because it was “so illogical” mathematicians had “suspend reality in order for it to make any sense” is [the axiom of choice](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axiom_of_choice).\n
          \n
          In other words, you can’t use logic and reason to say those that believe in religion are idiots because you have just as much proof as they do (just faith) if we accept the basic axioms that drive our logical system.\n
          \n
          > doesn’t exist because it doesn’t exist… isn’t circular logic\n
          \n
          You’re conflating [a tautology](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tautology_(logic)) with [circular reasoning](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning). Circular reasoning boils down to “A because B; B because A;” and you’ve said “A because A” without any support for A. The lack of something in your hand is not necessary and sufficient to prove the ball’s existence. The only claim we can make is that your hand is empty.\n
          \n
          Here is a metaphysical claim for you to chew on: it is possible to know whether or not it is possible to prove a claim.
          """
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        -id: 312133
        -bodyTs: "'/wiki/axiom_of_choice).':219 '/wiki/circular_reasoning).':287 '/wiki/consistency).':116 '/wiki/g%c3%b6del%27s_incompleteness_theorems).':173 '/wiki/tautology_(logic))':281 'accept':253 'achiev':127 'agnost':22 'ago':190 'agre':118 'along':53 'alreadi':169 'assum':49 'axiom':123,214,256 'b':295,296 'ball':100,326 'basic':255 'believ':234 'boil':290 'build':137 'bunch':139 'call':110 'cannot':157 'central':180 'chew':349 'choic':216 'circular':272,283,288 'claim':34,67,331,345,365 'common':185 'conflat':276 'consist':112,134 'contradict':91 'cool':23 'creat':85 'decad':189 'defin':77 'definit':44 'doesn':262,267 'drive':258 'either':96 'empti':340 'en.wikipedia.org':115,172,218,280,286 'en.wikipedia.org/wiki/axiom_of_choice).':217 'en.wikipedia.org/wiki/circular_reasoning).':285 'en.wikipedia.org/wiki/consistency).':114 'en.wikipedia.org/wiki/g%c3%b6del%27s_incompleteness_theorems).':171 'en.wikipedia.org/wiki/tautology_(logic))':279 'eventu':146 'evid':37,46,78 'exist':264,269,328 'face':69 'faith':183,250 'famous':165 'focus':4 'go':74,81 'hand':103,317,338 'idiot':238 'illog':199 'independ':59 'isn':106,270 'know':160,355 'lack':312 'line':55 'll':148 'logic':17,227,260,273 'm':48 'make':32,209,334 'mathematician':200 'mean':51 'mention':170 'met':192 'metaphys':344 'miss':11 'much':244 'must':178 'necessari':320 'need':36,83 'one':186 'order':205 'page':29 'per':93 'point':15 'possibl':353,361 'pretti':21 'problemat':40 'proof':245 'prove':158,324,363 'quot':95 're':2,25,73,80,275 'realiti':203 'reason':229,284,289 'religion':6,236 'repeat':57 'result':128,141,166,181 'ridicul':194 'rigor':43,76 'run':149 'said':302 'say':19,231 'seem':8 'sens':211 'set':121 'sever':188 'sinc':61 'someon':31 'someth':52,314 'suffici':322 'support':308 'suspend':202 'system':87,113,135,261 'take':65,179 'tautolog':278 'thing':151 'top':143 'true':154 'use':226 'valu':70 've':168,301 'verifi':60 'whether':356 'without':41,306 'won':63 'word':176,222"
        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://programming.dev/comment/6494185"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705361715 {#2068
          date: 2024-01-16 00:35:15.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 312133
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2057
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2050 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: "All of this continues to go past you. You want to attack the metaphysical for its belief system yet you completely miss when you make the same logical leaps for yours. How can insurance companies prove something? Why are they *right*? If a court makes a decision, is that the *correct* one? Prove it. Only you can’t use logic or anything that comes from logical systems because, based on your attacks on religion, you’re not allowed to use the faith to prove the faith."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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        +lastActive: DateTime @1705381718 {#2047
          date: 2024-01-16 06:08:38.0 +01:00
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          "@return2ozma@lemmy.world"
          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
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        -id: 312795
        -bodyTs: "'allow':78 'anyth':62 'attack':12,72 'base':69 'belief':17 'come':64 'compani':35 'complet':21 'continu':4 'correct':51 'court':44 'decis':47 'faith':82,86 'go':6 'insur':34 'leap':29 'logic':28,60,66 'make':25,45 'metaphys':14 'miss':22 'one':52 'past':7 'prove':36,53,84 're':76 'religion':74 'right':41 'someth':37 'system':18,67 'use':59,80 'want':10 'yet':19"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://programming.dev/comment/6504838"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705381718 {#2045
          date: 2024-01-16 06:08:38.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 312795
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2101
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2102 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: """
          You haven’t shown that an insurance decision is correct. You also didn’t show that a court decision is right. You’re not seeing the forest for the trees.\n
          \n
          Your faith is that evidence trumps all. That is a baseless claim unless you can prove it *without the structures of evidence-based discourse*. You are using logic to prove your statements which is logically equivalent to “god said so.” You argue your beliefs trump theirs; you are equivalent using your foundation. Your religion is logic which, as I have pointed out many times without comment from you, is just as made up as any religion and more importantly has the introspective capabilities to prove so.\n
          \n
          This is a fairly straightforward epistemological argument; I’ve run out of ways to say it. Good luck!
          """
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          "@return2ozma@lemmy.world"
          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
        ]
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        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2024-01-16 17:22:56.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 314135
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2123}
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2198
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2223 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: """
          If it is so self-evident, you should be able to explain why your faith in evidence trumps anyone else’s faith in anything else. You don’t know why you believe what you believe and you’re completely incapable (so far, based on the evidence you’ve provided) of doing anything beyond “James Randi says it so it must be true.” You seem to blindly believe anything anyone in a position of authority states (courts, insurance always right provided they have a modicum of evidence to support their claim). You pound the “evidence trumps everything” pulpit yet can’t explain why, logically, that might make sense.\n
          \n
          You remind me of the evangelicals I’m also not a fan of.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1705449526 {#2215
          date: 2024-01-17 00:58:46.0 +01:00
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        +mentions: [
          "@return2ozma@lemmy.world"
          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2227 …}
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        -id: 315410
        -bodyTs: "'abl':11 'also':117 'alway':79 'anyon':20,70 'anyth':25,53,69 'author':75 'base':44 'believ':33,36,68 'beyond':54 'blind':67 'claim':91 'complet':40 'court':77 'els':21,26 'evangel':114 'everyth':97 'evid':7,18,47,87,95 'explain':13,102 'faith':16,23 'fan':120 'far':43 'incap':41 'insur':78 'jame':55 'know':30 'logic':104 'm':116 'make':107 'might':106 'modicum':85 'must':61 'posit':73 'pound':93 'provid':50,81 'pulpit':98 'randi':56 're':39 'remind':110 'right':80 'say':57 'seem':65 'self':6 'self-evid':5 'sens':108 'state':76 'support':89 'true':63 'trump':19,96 've':49 'yet':99"
        +ranking: 0
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        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705449526 {#2224
          date: 2024-01-17 00:58:46.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 315410
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2311
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2298 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: """
          Why are 1 and 3 the correct options? Why are they even correct? Why is 2 wrong? You don’t seem to realize any of the foundation you’re building on and you’ve done nothing other than say “if I provide evidence,” that’s enough.\n
          \n
          Here’s a thought experiment. I take you into a closed room, put purple film over a window, and tell you the sky is purple. You’ve now got irrefutable proof that the sky is purple. But wait, you say! I can go outside and find different evidence, so clearly *having evidence alone is not enough*. We could even sidestep the problem by saying that the sky is colorless; it’s the refraction of the light that makes the color. Different frame; different counter.\n
          \n
          So why are you right? Why is your frame correct?
          """
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          "@return2ozma@lemmy.world"
          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
        ]
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    ]
    -id: 30602
    -titleTs: "'2024':5 'believ':17 'human':11 'knowledg':10 'peopl':15 'religion':19 'still':16 'year':4"
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    +apId: "https://lemmy.world/post/10734946"
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705311724 {#3021
      date: 2024-01-15 10:42:04.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2119 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
  +body: "You can’t explain logic so I’m not sure you have an understanding of the arguments you’re attempting to make. I’m not seeing any justification other than “I think it’s it right.” I’ve seen no counters to the quantitative philosophical propositions and a general lack of understanding of any of the things that underpin your belief system. You still haven’t explained why your system is *right*."
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    date: 2024-01-16 21:30:27.0 +01:00
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    "@return2ozma@lemmy.world"
    "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
    "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
    "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2116 …}
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    date: 2024-01-16 21:30:27.0 +01:00
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  +"title": 314857
}
 
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97 DENIED ROLE_USER 
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98 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2198
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349
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    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3001 …}
    +slug: "Why-in-the-year-2024-and-with-all-the-knowledge"
    +title: "Why in the year 2024 and with all the knowledge humans have now do people still believe in religion?"
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      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2344
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
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        +body: """
          This is a fundamental misunderstanding of Russell’s Teapot. If someone claims there is a teapot floating in space, cool, they need to prove its existence and the rest of us can go around as if one doesn’t exist. If someone claims there isn’t a teapot floating in space, now the burden of proof is on them. We can quickly exercise some critical thinking and realize that, while there might be a teapot in space someone brought with them and left, it’s not going to be beyond the asteroid belt.\n
          \n
          Now do every belief system with empirical evidence. You can’t, primarily because belief in the logic used to prove that empirical evidence is the best evidence is itself a belief system. Changing any one of the axioms that underpin your methodology completely changes the methodology (eg parallel lines meet at infinity turns geometry into hyperbolic geometry). Furthermore, we can extend Gödel’s incompleteness theorems to any formal system, like you’re attempting to employ, and show that they can’t prove themselves.\n
          \n
          In other words, we must take things on faith if we want to use logic and pull out statement related to logic like “burden of proof is on the positive.” You can believe whatever the fuck you want; you just can’t prove it and, in most metaphysical cases, you can’t disprove it either.
          """
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          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
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          date: 2024-01-15 19:36:52.0 +01:00
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      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2340
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
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        +body: """
          Again, fundamental misunderstanding of Russell’s Teapot. You’re attempting to talk about proof, using the language of logic, to make sweeping claims that logic cannot make.\n
          \n
          If you’re saying we can neither prove nor disprove the metaphysical, we’re on the same page.\n
          \n
          If you’re saying the metaphysical doesn’t exist because no one has proved it and they have to prove it first, you don’t understand how logic, as we understand it today, works.\n
          \n
          Edit: to highlight your issues a little, “it doesn’t exist because it doesn’t exist” isn’t logically sound. Unlike Russell’s Teapot, circular logic is an actual, provable fallacy rather than a rhetorical tool *that is not a result of logic*. More importantly, you’re depending on *logic as a system of faith*, just like religion, unless you’ve found some results that contradict Gödel and company. We’ve made all of it up and, with our understanding today, it is not objective.
          """
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          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
          "@return2ozma@lemmy.world"
          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
        ]
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          date: 2024-08-22 04:21:46.0 +02:00
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          date: 2024-01-15 21:52:02.0 +01:00
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      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2072
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2069 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: """
          You’re very focused on religion and seem to be missing all of the points about logic.\n
          \n
          > not saying that … pretty agnostic\n
          \n
          Cool, we’re on the same page.\n
          \n
          > If someone makes a claim… it needs… evidence\n
          \n
          This is problematic without a rigorous definition of evidence. I’m assuming you mean something along the lines of repeatable and independently verifiable since you won’t take a claim at face value. If you’re going to rigorously define evidence, you’re going to need to create a system that can’t contradict itself. Per your quotes, either there is a ball in my hand or there isn’t.\n
          \n
          This is called [a consistent system](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consistency). We agree on a set of axioms that we will achieve results from. If we have a consistent system and build a bunch of results on top of that, eventually we’ll run into things that are true but we cannot prove. We know this [because of a famous result I’ve already mentioned](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del%27s_incompleteness_theorems). In other words, we must take central results on faith. A common one that, several decades ago, was met with ridicule because it was “so illogical” mathematicians had “suspend reality in order for it to make any sense” is [the axiom of choice](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axiom_of_choice).\n
          \n
          In other words, you can’t use logic and reason to say those that believe in religion are idiots because you have just as much proof as they do (just faith) if we accept the basic axioms that drive our logical system.\n
          \n
          > doesn’t exist because it doesn’t exist… isn’t circular logic\n
          \n
          You’re conflating [a tautology](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tautology_(logic)) with [circular reasoning](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning). Circular reasoning boils down to “A because B; B because A;” and you’ve said “A because A” without any support for A. The lack of something in your hand is not necessary and sufficient to prove the ball’s existence. The only claim we can make is that your hand is empty.\n
          \n
          Here is a metaphysical claim for you to chew on: it is possible to know whether or not it is possible to prove a claim.
          """
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          date: 2024-01-16 00:35:15.0 +01:00
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      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2057
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: "All of this continues to go past you. You want to attack the metaphysical for its belief system yet you completely miss when you make the same logical leaps for yours. How can insurance companies prove something? Why are they *right*? If a court makes a decision, is that the *correct* one? Prove it. Only you can’t use logic or anything that comes from logical systems because, based on your attacks on religion, you’re not allowed to use the faith to prove the faith."
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          date: 2024-01-16 06:08:38.0 +01:00
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          "@return2ozma@lemmy.world"
          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
        ]
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        +apId: "https://programming.dev/comment/6504838"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705381718 {#2045
          date: 2024-01-16 06:08:38.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 312795
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2101
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2102 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: """
          You haven’t shown that an insurance decision is correct. You also didn’t show that a court decision is right. You’re not seeing the forest for the trees.\n
          \n
          Your faith is that evidence trumps all. That is a baseless claim unless you can prove it *without the structures of evidence-based discourse*. You are using logic to prove your statements which is logically equivalent to “god said so.” You argue your beliefs trump theirs; you are equivalent using your foundation. Your religion is logic which, as I have pointed out many times without comment from you, is just as made up as any religion and more importantly has the introspective capabilities to prove so.\n
          \n
          This is a fairly straightforward epistemological argument; I’ve run out of ways to say it. Good luck!
          """
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          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
        ]
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          date: 2024-01-16 17:22:56.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 314135
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2123
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        +body: "You can’t explain logic so I’m not sure you have an understanding of the arguments you’re attempting to make. I’m not seeing any justification other than “I think it’s it right.” I’ve seen no counters to the quantitative philosophical propositions and a general lack of understanding of any of the things that underpin your belief system. You still haven’t explained why your system is *right*."
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          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
        ]
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          date: 2024-01-16 21:30:27.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 314857
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2198}
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2311
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
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        +body: """
          Why are 1 and 3 the correct options? Why are they even correct? Why is 2 wrong? You don’t seem to realize any of the foundation you’re building on and you’ve done nothing other than say “if I provide evidence,” that’s enough.\n
          \n
          Here’s a thought experiment. I take you into a closed room, put purple film over a window, and tell you the sky is purple. You’ve now got irrefutable proof that the sky is purple. But wait, you say! I can go outside and find different evidence, so clearly *having evidence alone is not enough*. We could even sidestep the problem by saying that the sky is colorless; it’s the refraction of the light that makes the color. Different frame; different counter.\n
          \n
          So why are you right? Why is your frame correct?
          """
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    ]
    -id: 30602
    -titleTs: "'2024':5 'believ':17 'human':11 'knowledg':10 'peopl':15 'religion':19 'still':16 'year':4"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1705398124
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemmy.world/post/10734946"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705311724 {#3021
      date: 2024-01-15 10:42:04.0 +01:00
    }
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     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2223 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
  +body: """
    If it is so self-evident, you should be able to explain why your faith in evidence trumps anyone else’s faith in anything else. You don’t know why you believe what you believe and you’re completely incapable (so far, based on the evidence you’ve provided) of doing anything beyond “James Randi says it so it must be true.” You seem to blindly believe anything anyone in a position of authority states (courts, insurance always right provided they have a modicum of evidence to support their claim). You pound the “evidence trumps everything” pulpit yet can’t explain why, logically, that might make sense.\n
    \n
    You remind me of the evangelicals I’m also not a fan of.
    """
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    "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
    "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
    "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
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"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
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"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
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Show voter details
99 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2198
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349
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    +slug: "Why-in-the-year-2024-and-with-all-the-knowledge"
    +title: "Why in the year 2024 and with all the knowledge humans have now do people still believe in religion?"
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      date: 2024-01-22 02:19:07.0 +01:00
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      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2344
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
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        +body: """
          This is a fundamental misunderstanding of Russell’s Teapot. If someone claims there is a teapot floating in space, cool, they need to prove its existence and the rest of us can go around as if one doesn’t exist. If someone claims there isn’t a teapot floating in space, now the burden of proof is on them. We can quickly exercise some critical thinking and realize that, while there might be a teapot in space someone brought with them and left, it’s not going to be beyond the asteroid belt.\n
          \n
          Now do every belief system with empirical evidence. You can’t, primarily because belief in the logic used to prove that empirical evidence is the best evidence is itself a belief system. Changing any one of the axioms that underpin your methodology completely changes the methodology (eg parallel lines meet at infinity turns geometry into hyperbolic geometry). Furthermore, we can extend Gödel’s incompleteness theorems to any formal system, like you’re attempting to employ, and show that they can’t prove themselves.\n
          \n
          In other words, we must take things on faith if we want to use logic and pull out statement related to logic like “burden of proof is on the positive.” You can believe whatever the fuck you want; you just can’t prove it and, in most metaphysical cases, you can’t disprove it either.
          """
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          date: 2024-01-15 19:36:52.0 +01:00
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      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2340
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        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
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        +body: """
          Again, fundamental misunderstanding of Russell’s Teapot. You’re attempting to talk about proof, using the language of logic, to make sweeping claims that logic cannot make.\n
          \n
          If you’re saying we can neither prove nor disprove the metaphysical, we’re on the same page.\n
          \n
          If you’re saying the metaphysical doesn’t exist because no one has proved it and they have to prove it first, you don’t understand how logic, as we understand it today, works.\n
          \n
          Edit: to highlight your issues a little, “it doesn’t exist because it doesn’t exist” isn’t logically sound. Unlike Russell’s Teapot, circular logic is an actual, provable fallacy rather than a rhetorical tool *that is not a result of logic*. More importantly, you’re depending on *logic as a system of faith*, just like religion, unless you’ve found some results that contradict Gödel and company. We’ve made all of it up and, with our understanding today, it is not objective.
          """
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          date: 2024-08-22 04:21:46.0 +02:00
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          date: 2024-01-15 21:52:02.0 +01:00
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      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2072
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
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        +body: """
          You’re very focused on religion and seem to be missing all of the points about logic.\n
          \n
          > not saying that … pretty agnostic\n
          \n
          Cool, we’re on the same page.\n
          \n
          > If someone makes a claim… it needs… evidence\n
          \n
          This is problematic without a rigorous definition of evidence. I’m assuming you mean something along the lines of repeatable and independently verifiable since you won’t take a claim at face value. If you’re going to rigorously define evidence, you’re going to need to create a system that can’t contradict itself. Per your quotes, either there is a ball in my hand or there isn’t.\n
          \n
          This is called [a consistent system](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consistency). We agree on a set of axioms that we will achieve results from. If we have a consistent system and build a bunch of results on top of that, eventually we’ll run into things that are true but we cannot prove. We know this [because of a famous result I’ve already mentioned](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del%27s_incompleteness_theorems). In other words, we must take central results on faith. A common one that, several decades ago, was met with ridicule because it was “so illogical” mathematicians had “suspend reality in order for it to make any sense” is [the axiom of choice](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axiom_of_choice).\n
          \n
          In other words, you can’t use logic and reason to say those that believe in religion are idiots because you have just as much proof as they do (just faith) if we accept the basic axioms that drive our logical system.\n
          \n
          > doesn’t exist because it doesn’t exist… isn’t circular logic\n
          \n
          You’re conflating [a tautology](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tautology_(logic)) with [circular reasoning](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning). Circular reasoning boils down to “A because B; B because A;” and you’ve said “A because A” without any support for A. The lack of something in your hand is not necessary and sufficient to prove the ball’s existence. The only claim we can make is that your hand is empty.\n
          \n
          Here is a metaphysical claim for you to chew on: it is possible to know whether or not it is possible to prove a claim.
          """
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          date: 2024-01-16 00:35:15.0 +01:00
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      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2057
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        +body: "All of this continues to go past you. You want to attack the metaphysical for its belief system yet you completely miss when you make the same logical leaps for yours. How can insurance companies prove something? Why are they *right*? If a court makes a decision, is that the *correct* one? Prove it. Only you can’t use logic or anything that comes from logical systems because, based on your attacks on religion, you’re not allowed to use the faith to prove the faith."
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        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2102 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: """
          You haven’t shown that an insurance decision is correct. You also didn’t show that a court decision is right. You’re not seeing the forest for the trees.\n
          \n
          Your faith is that evidence trumps all. That is a baseless claim unless you can prove it *without the structures of evidence-based discourse*. You are using logic to prove your statements which is logically equivalent to “god said so.” You argue your beliefs trump theirs; you are equivalent using your foundation. Your religion is logic which, as I have pointed out many times without comment from you, is just as made up as any religion and more importantly has the introspective capabilities to prove so.\n
          \n
          This is a fairly straightforward epistemological argument; I’ve run out of ways to say it. Good luck!
          """
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          date: 2024-01-16 17:22:56.0 +01:00
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          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
        ]
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          date: 2024-01-16 17:22:56.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 314135
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2123
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2119 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: "You can’t explain logic so I’m not sure you have an understanding of the arguments you’re attempting to make. I’m not seeing any justification other than “I think it’s it right.” I’ve seen no counters to the quantitative philosophical propositions and a general lack of understanding of any of the things that underpin your belief system. You still haven’t explained why your system is *right*."
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          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
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          date: 2024-01-16 21:30:27.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 314857
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2198}
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2311
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2298 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: """
          Why are 1 and 3 the correct options? Why are they even correct? Why is 2 wrong? You don’t seem to realize any of the foundation you’re building on and you’ve done nothing other than say “if I provide evidence,” that’s enough.\n
          \n
          Here’s a thought experiment. I take you into a closed room, put purple film over a window, and tell you the sky is purple. You’ve now got irrefutable proof that the sky is purple. But wait, you say! I can go outside and find different evidence, so clearly *having evidence alone is not enough*. We could even sidestep the problem by saying that the sky is colorless; it’s the refraction of the light that makes the color. Different frame; different counter.\n
          \n
          So why are you right? Why is your frame correct?
          """
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          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
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    ]
    -id: 30602
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    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1705398124
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemmy.world/post/10734946"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705311724 {#3021
      date: 2024-01-15 10:42:04.0 +01:00
    }
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     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2223 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
  +body: """
    If it is so self-evident, you should be able to explain why your faith in evidence trumps anyone else’s faith in anything else. You don’t know why you believe what you believe and you’re completely incapable (so far, based on the evidence you’ve provided) of doing anything beyond “James Randi says it so it must be true.” You seem to blindly believe anything anyone in a position of authority states (courts, insurance always right provided they have a modicum of evidence to support their claim). You pound the “evidence trumps everything” pulpit yet can’t explain why, logically, that might make sense.\n
    \n
    You remind me of the evangelicals I’m also not a fan of.
    """
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    "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
    "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
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  +"title": 315410
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
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100 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2198
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349
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    +slug: "Why-in-the-year-2024-and-with-all-the-knowledge"
    +title: "Why in the year 2024 and with all the knowledge humans have now do people still believe in religion?"
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      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2344
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
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        +body: """
          This is a fundamental misunderstanding of Russell’s Teapot. If someone claims there is a teapot floating in space, cool, they need to prove its existence and the rest of us can go around as if one doesn’t exist. If someone claims there isn’t a teapot floating in space, now the burden of proof is on them. We can quickly exercise some critical thinking and realize that, while there might be a teapot in space someone brought with them and left, it’s not going to be beyond the asteroid belt.\n
          \n
          Now do every belief system with empirical evidence. You can’t, primarily because belief in the logic used to prove that empirical evidence is the best evidence is itself a belief system. Changing any one of the axioms that underpin your methodology completely changes the methodology (eg parallel lines meet at infinity turns geometry into hyperbolic geometry). Furthermore, we can extend Gödel’s incompleteness theorems to any formal system, like you’re attempting to employ, and show that they can’t prove themselves.\n
          \n
          In other words, we must take things on faith if we want to use logic and pull out statement related to logic like “burden of proof is on the positive.” You can believe whatever the fuck you want; you just can’t prove it and, in most metaphysical cases, you can’t disprove it either.
          """
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          date: 2024-01-15 19:36:52.0 +01:00
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      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2340
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: """
          Again, fundamental misunderstanding of Russell’s Teapot. You’re attempting to talk about proof, using the language of logic, to make sweeping claims that logic cannot make.\n
          \n
          If you’re saying we can neither prove nor disprove the metaphysical, we’re on the same page.\n
          \n
          If you’re saying the metaphysical doesn’t exist because no one has proved it and they have to prove it first, you don’t understand how logic, as we understand it today, works.\n
          \n
          Edit: to highlight your issues a little, “it doesn’t exist because it doesn’t exist” isn’t logically sound. Unlike Russell’s Teapot, circular logic is an actual, provable fallacy rather than a rhetorical tool *that is not a result of logic*. More importantly, you’re depending on *logic as a system of faith*, just like religion, unless you’ve found some results that contradict Gödel and company. We’ve made all of it up and, with our understanding today, it is not objective.
          """
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          date: 2024-08-22 04:21:46.0 +02:00
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          date: 2024-01-15 21:52:02.0 +01:00
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      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2072
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
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        +body: """
          You’re very focused on religion and seem to be missing all of the points about logic.\n
          \n
          > not saying that … pretty agnostic\n
          \n
          Cool, we’re on the same page.\n
          \n
          > If someone makes a claim… it needs… evidence\n
          \n
          This is problematic without a rigorous definition of evidence. I’m assuming you mean something along the lines of repeatable and independently verifiable since you won’t take a claim at face value. If you’re going to rigorously define evidence, you’re going to need to create a system that can’t contradict itself. Per your quotes, either there is a ball in my hand or there isn’t.\n
          \n
          This is called [a consistent system](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consistency). We agree on a set of axioms that we will achieve results from. If we have a consistent system and build a bunch of results on top of that, eventually we’ll run into things that are true but we cannot prove. We know this [because of a famous result I’ve already mentioned](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del%27s_incompleteness_theorems). In other words, we must take central results on faith. A common one that, several decades ago, was met with ridicule because it was “so illogical” mathematicians had “suspend reality in order for it to make any sense” is [the axiom of choice](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axiom_of_choice).\n
          \n
          In other words, you can’t use logic and reason to say those that believe in religion are idiots because you have just as much proof as they do (just faith) if we accept the basic axioms that drive our logical system.\n
          \n
          > doesn’t exist because it doesn’t exist… isn’t circular logic\n
          \n
          You’re conflating [a tautology](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tautology_(logic)) with [circular reasoning](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning). Circular reasoning boils down to “A because B; B because A;” and you’ve said “A because A” without any support for A. The lack of something in your hand is not necessary and sufficient to prove the ball’s existence. The only claim we can make is that your hand is empty.\n
          \n
          Here is a metaphysical claim for you to chew on: it is possible to know whether or not it is possible to prove a claim.
          """
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        -bodyTs: "'/wiki/axiom_of_choice).':219 '/wiki/circular_reasoning).':287 '/wiki/consistency).':116 '/wiki/g%c3%b6del%27s_incompleteness_theorems).':173 '/wiki/tautology_(logic))':281 'accept':253 'achiev':127 'agnost':22 'ago':190 'agre':118 'along':53 'alreadi':169 'assum':49 'axiom':123,214,256 'b':295,296 'ball':100,326 'basic':255 'believ':234 'boil':290 'build':137 'bunch':139 'call':110 'cannot':157 'central':180 'chew':349 'choic':216 'circular':272,283,288 'claim':34,67,331,345,365 'common':185 'conflat':276 'consist':112,134 'contradict':91 'cool':23 'creat':85 'decad':189 'defin':77 'definit':44 'doesn':262,267 'drive':258 'either':96 'empti':340 'en.wikipedia.org':115,172,218,280,286 'en.wikipedia.org/wiki/axiom_of_choice).':217 'en.wikipedia.org/wiki/circular_reasoning).':285 'en.wikipedia.org/wiki/consistency).':114 'en.wikipedia.org/wiki/g%c3%b6del%27s_incompleteness_theorems).':171 'en.wikipedia.org/wiki/tautology_(logic))':279 'eventu':146 'evid':37,46,78 'exist':264,269,328 'face':69 'faith':183,250 'famous':165 'focus':4 'go':74,81 'hand':103,317,338 'idiot':238 'illog':199 'independ':59 'isn':106,270 'know':160,355 'lack':312 'line':55 'll':148 'logic':17,227,260,273 'm':48 'make':32,209,334 'mathematician':200 'mean':51 'mention':170 'met':192 'metaphys':344 'miss':11 'much':244 'must':178 'necessari':320 'need':36,83 'one':186 'order':205 'page':29 'per':93 'point':15 'possibl':353,361 'pretti':21 'problemat':40 'proof':245 'prove':158,324,363 'quot':95 're':2,25,73,80,275 'realiti':203 'reason':229,284,289 'religion':6,236 'repeat':57 'result':128,141,166,181 'ridicul':194 'rigor':43,76 'run':149 'said':302 'say':19,231 'seem':8 'sens':211 'set':121 'sever':188 'sinc':61 'someon':31 'someth':52,314 'suffici':322 'support':308 'suspend':202 'system':87,113,135,261 'take':65,179 'tautolog':278 'thing':151 'top':143 'true':154 'use':226 'valu':70 've':168,301 'verifi':60 'whether':356 'without':41,306 'won':63 'word':176,222"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://programming.dev/comment/6494185"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705361715 {#2068
          date: 2024-01-16 00:35:15.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 312133
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2057
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2050 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: "All of this continues to go past you. You want to attack the metaphysical for its belief system yet you completely miss when you make the same logical leaps for yours. How can insurance companies prove something? Why are they *right*? If a court makes a decision, is that the *correct* one? Prove it. Only you can’t use logic or anything that comes from logical systems because, based on your attacks on religion, you’re not allowed to use the faith to prove the faith."
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2024-01-16 06:08:38.0 +01:00
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          "@return2ozma@lemmy.world"
          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
        ]
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        -id: 312795
        -bodyTs: "'allow':78 'anyth':62 'attack':12,72 'base':69 'belief':17 'come':64 'compani':35 'complet':21 'continu':4 'correct':51 'court':44 'decis':47 'faith':82,86 'go':6 'insur':34 'leap':29 'logic':28,60,66 'make':25,45 'metaphys':14 'miss':22 'one':52 'past':7 'prove':36,53,84 're':76 'religion':74 'right':41 'someth':37 'system':18,67 'use':59,80 'want':10 'yet':19"
        +ranking: 0
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705381718 {#2045
          date: 2024-01-16 06:08:38.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 312795
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2101
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2102 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: """
          You haven’t shown that an insurance decision is correct. You also didn’t show that a court decision is right. You’re not seeing the forest for the trees.\n
          \n
          Your faith is that evidence trumps all. That is a baseless claim unless you can prove it *without the structures of evidence-based discourse*. You are using logic to prove your statements which is logically equivalent to “god said so.” You argue your beliefs trump theirs; you are equivalent using your foundation. Your religion is logic which, as I have pointed out many times without comment from you, is just as made up as any religion and more importantly has the introspective capabilities to prove so.\n
          \n
          This is a fairly straightforward epistemological argument; I’ve run out of ways to say it. Good luck!
          """
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          "@return2ozma@lemmy.world"
          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
        ]
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          date: 2024-01-16 17:22:56.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 314135
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2123
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2119 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: "You can’t explain logic so I’m not sure you have an understanding of the arguments you’re attempting to make. I’m not seeing any justification other than “I think it’s it right.” I’ve seen no counters to the quantitative philosophical propositions and a general lack of understanding of any of the things that underpin your belief system. You still haven’t explained why your system is *right*."
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          date: 2024-01-16 21:30:27.0 +01:00
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          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
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          date: 2024-01-16 21:30:27.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 314857
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2198}
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2311
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2298 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: """
          Why are 1 and 3 the correct options? Why are they even correct? Why is 2 wrong? You don’t seem to realize any of the foundation you’re building on and you’ve done nothing other than say “if I provide evidence,” that’s enough.\n
          \n
          Here’s a thought experiment. I take you into a closed room, put purple film over a window, and tell you the sky is purple. You’ve now got irrefutable proof that the sky is purple. But wait, you say! I can go outside and find different evidence, so clearly *having evidence alone is not enough*. We could even sidestep the problem by saying that the sky is colorless; it’s the refraction of the light that makes the color. Different frame; different counter.\n
          \n
          So why are you right? Why is your frame correct?
          """
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          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
        ]
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    ]
    -id: 30602
    -titleTs: "'2024':5 'believ':17 'human':11 'knowledg':10 'peopl':15 'religion':19 'still':16 'year':4"
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    +ranking: 1705398124
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    +apId: "https://lemmy.world/post/10734946"
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705311724 {#3021
      date: 2024-01-15 10:42:04.0 +01:00
    }
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     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2223 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
  +body: """
    If it is so self-evident, you should be able to explain why your faith in evidence trumps anyone else’s faith in anything else. You don’t know why you believe what you believe and you’re completely incapable (so far, based on the evidence you’ve provided) of doing anything beyond “James Randi says it so it must be true.” You seem to blindly believe anything anyone in a position of authority states (courts, insurance always right provided they have a modicum of evidence to support their claim). You pound the “evidence trumps everything” pulpit yet can’t explain why, logically, that might make sense.\n
    \n
    You remind me of the evangelicals I’m also not a fan of.
    """
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    "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
    "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
    "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
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  +"title": 315410
}
 
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#2311
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349
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    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3001 …}
    +slug: "Why-in-the-year-2024-and-with-all-the-knowledge"
    +title: "Why in the year 2024 and with all the knowledge humans have now do people still believe in religion?"
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      date: 2024-01-22 02:19:07.0 +01:00
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      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2344
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2141 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: """
          This is a fundamental misunderstanding of Russell’s Teapot. If someone claims there is a teapot floating in space, cool, they need to prove its existence and the rest of us can go around as if one doesn’t exist. If someone claims there isn’t a teapot floating in space, now the burden of proof is on them. We can quickly exercise some critical thinking and realize that, while there might be a teapot in space someone brought with them and left, it’s not going to be beyond the asteroid belt.\n
          \n
          Now do every belief system with empirical evidence. You can’t, primarily because belief in the logic used to prove that empirical evidence is the best evidence is itself a belief system. Changing any one of the axioms that underpin your methodology completely changes the methodology (eg parallel lines meet at infinity turns geometry into hyperbolic geometry). Furthermore, we can extend Gödel’s incompleteness theorems to any formal system, like you’re attempting to employ, and show that they can’t prove themselves.\n
          \n
          In other words, we must take things on faith if we want to use logic and pull out statement related to logic like “burden of proof is on the positive.” You can believe whatever the fuck you want; you just can’t prove it and, in most metaphysical cases, you can’t disprove it either.
          """
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        +apId: "https://programming.dev/comment/6485442"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705343812 {#2332
          date: 2024-01-15 19:36:52.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 311420
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2340
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2341 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: """
          Again, fundamental misunderstanding of Russell’s Teapot. You’re attempting to talk about proof, using the language of logic, to make sweeping claims that logic cannot make.\n
          \n
          If you’re saying we can neither prove nor disprove the metaphysical, we’re on the same page.\n
          \n
          If you’re saying the metaphysical doesn’t exist because no one has proved it and they have to prove it first, you don’t understand how logic, as we understand it today, works.\n
          \n
          Edit: to highlight your issues a little, “it doesn’t exist because it doesn’t exist” isn’t logically sound. Unlike Russell’s Teapot, circular logic is an actual, provable fallacy rather than a rhetorical tool *that is not a result of logic*. More importantly, you’re depending on *logic as a system of faith*, just like religion, unless you’ve found some results that contradict Gödel and company. We’ve made all of it up and, with our understanding today, it is not objective.
          """
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          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
          "@return2ozma@lemmy.world"
          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
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          date: 2024-08-22 04:21:46.0 +02:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705351922 {#2334
          date: 2024-01-15 21:52:02.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 311745
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2072
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2069 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: """
          You’re very focused on religion and seem to be missing all of the points about logic.\n
          \n
          > not saying that … pretty agnostic\n
          \n
          Cool, we’re on the same page.\n
          \n
          > If someone makes a claim… it needs… evidence\n
          \n
          This is problematic without a rigorous definition of evidence. I’m assuming you mean something along the lines of repeatable and independently verifiable since you won’t take a claim at face value. If you’re going to rigorously define evidence, you’re going to need to create a system that can’t contradict itself. Per your quotes, either there is a ball in my hand or there isn’t.\n
          \n
          This is called [a consistent system](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consistency). We agree on a set of axioms that we will achieve results from. If we have a consistent system and build a bunch of results on top of that, eventually we’ll run into things that are true but we cannot prove. We know this [because of a famous result I’ve already mentioned](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del%27s_incompleteness_theorems). In other words, we must take central results on faith. A common one that, several decades ago, was met with ridicule because it was “so illogical” mathematicians had “suspend reality in order for it to make any sense” is [the axiom of choice](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axiom_of_choice).\n
          \n
          In other words, you can’t use logic and reason to say those that believe in religion are idiots because you have just as much proof as they do (just faith) if we accept the basic axioms that drive our logical system.\n
          \n
          > doesn’t exist because it doesn’t exist… isn’t circular logic\n
          \n
          You’re conflating [a tautology](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tautology_(logic)) with [circular reasoning](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning). Circular reasoning boils down to “A because B; B because A;” and you’ve said “A because A” without any support for A. The lack of something in your hand is not necessary and sufficient to prove the ball’s existence. The only claim we can make is that your hand is empty.\n
          \n
          Here is a metaphysical claim for you to chew on: it is possible to know whether or not it is possible to prove a claim.
          """
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          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705361715 {#2068
          date: 2024-01-16 00:35:15.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 312133
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2057
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2050 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: "All of this continues to go past you. You want to attack the metaphysical for its belief system yet you completely miss when you make the same logical leaps for yours. How can insurance companies prove something? Why are they *right*? If a court makes a decision, is that the *correct* one? Prove it. Only you can’t use logic or anything that comes from logical systems because, based on your attacks on religion, you’re not allowed to use the faith to prove the faith."
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2024-01-16 06:08:38.0 +01:00
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          "@return2ozma@lemmy.world"
          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705381718 {#2045
          date: 2024-01-16 06:08:38.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 312795
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2101
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2102 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: """
          You haven’t shown that an insurance decision is correct. You also didn’t show that a court decision is right. You’re not seeing the forest for the trees.\n
          \n
          Your faith is that evidence trumps all. That is a baseless claim unless you can prove it *without the structures of evidence-based discourse*. You are using logic to prove your statements which is logically equivalent to “god said so.” You argue your beliefs trump theirs; you are equivalent using your foundation. Your religion is logic which, as I have pointed out many times without comment from you, is just as made up as any religion and more importantly has the introspective capabilities to prove so.\n
          \n
          This is a fairly straightforward epistemological argument; I’ve run out of ways to say it. Good luck!
          """
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          date: 2024-01-16 17:22:56.0 +01:00
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          "@return2ozma@lemmy.world"
          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
        ]
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          date: 2024-01-16 17:22:56.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 314135
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2123
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        +body: "You can’t explain logic so I’m not sure you have an understanding of the arguments you’re attempting to make. I’m not seeing any justification other than “I think it’s it right.” I’ve seen no counters to the quantitative philosophical propositions and a general lack of understanding of any of the things that underpin your belief system. You still haven’t explained why your system is *right*."
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          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
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          date: 2024-01-16 21:30:27.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 314857
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2198
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
        +image: null
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        +body: """
          If it is so self-evident, you should be able to explain why your faith in evidence trumps anyone else’s faith in anything else. You don’t know why you believe what you believe and you’re completely incapable (so far, based on the evidence you’ve provided) of doing anything beyond “James Randi says it so it must be true.” You seem to blindly believe anything anyone in a position of authority states (courts, insurance always right provided they have a modicum of evidence to support their claim). You pound the “evidence trumps everything” pulpit yet can’t explain why, logically, that might make sense.\n
          \n
          You remind me of the evangelicals I’m also not a fan of.
          """
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          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
        ]
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        -id: 315410
        -bodyTs: "'abl':11 'also':117 'alway':79 'anyon':20,70 'anyth':25,53,69 'author':75 'base':44 'believ':33,36,68 'beyond':54 'blind':67 'claim':91 'complet':40 'court':77 'els':21,26 'evangel':114 'everyth':97 'evid':7,18,47,87,95 'explain':13,102 'faith':16,23 'fan':120 'far':43 'incap':41 'insur':78 'jame':55 'know':30 'logic':104 'm':116 'make':107 'might':106 'modicum':85 'must':61 'posit':73 'pound':93 'provid':50,81 'pulpit':98 'randi':56 're':39 'remind':110 'right':80 'say':57 'seem':65 'self':6 'self-evid':5 'sens':108 'state':76 'support':89 'true':63 'trump':19,96 've':49 'yet':99"
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    ]
    -id: 30602
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      date: 2024-01-15 10:42:04.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
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  +body: """
    Why are 1 and 3 the correct options? Why are they even correct? Why is 2 wrong? You don’t seem to realize any of the foundation you’re building on and you’ve done nothing other than say “if I provide evidence,” that’s enough.\n
    \n
    Here’s a thought experiment. I take you into a closed room, put purple film over a window, and tell you the sky is purple. You’ve now got irrefutable proof that the sky is purple. But wait, you say! I can go outside and find different evidence, so clearly *having evidence alone is not enough*. We could even sidestep the problem by saying that the sky is colorless; it’s the refraction of the light that makes the color. Different frame; different counter.\n
    \n
    So why are you right? Why is your frame correct?
    """
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    "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
    "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
    "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
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  -id: 315804
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  +"title": 315804
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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103 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2311
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2999 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
    +image: null
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3001 …}
    +slug: "Why-in-the-year-2024-and-with-all-the-knowledge"
    +title: "Why in the year 2024 and with all the knowledge humans have now do people still believe in religion?"
    +url: null
    +body: null
    +type: "article"
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      date: 2024-01-22 02:19:07.0 +01:00
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    +children: [
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2344
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
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        +body: """
          This is a fundamental misunderstanding of Russell’s Teapot. If someone claims there is a teapot floating in space, cool, they need to prove its existence and the rest of us can go around as if one doesn’t exist. If someone claims there isn’t a teapot floating in space, now the burden of proof is on them. We can quickly exercise some critical thinking and realize that, while there might be a teapot in space someone brought with them and left, it’s not going to be beyond the asteroid belt.\n
          \n
          Now do every belief system with empirical evidence. You can’t, primarily because belief in the logic used to prove that empirical evidence is the best evidence is itself a belief system. Changing any one of the axioms that underpin your methodology completely changes the methodology (eg parallel lines meet at infinity turns geometry into hyperbolic geometry). Furthermore, we can extend Gödel’s incompleteness theorems to any formal system, like you’re attempting to employ, and show that they can’t prove themselves.\n
          \n
          In other words, we must take things on faith if we want to use logic and pull out statement related to logic like “burden of proof is on the positive.” You can believe whatever the fuck you want; you just can’t prove it and, in most metaphysical cases, you can’t disprove it either.
          """
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          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
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          date: 2024-01-15 19:36:52.0 +01:00
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      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2340
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2341 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: """
          Again, fundamental misunderstanding of Russell’s Teapot. You’re attempting to talk about proof, using the language of logic, to make sweeping claims that logic cannot make.\n
          \n
          If you’re saying we can neither prove nor disprove the metaphysical, we’re on the same page.\n
          \n
          If you’re saying the metaphysical doesn’t exist because no one has proved it and they have to prove it first, you don’t understand how logic, as we understand it today, works.\n
          \n
          Edit: to highlight your issues a little, “it doesn’t exist because it doesn’t exist” isn’t logically sound. Unlike Russell’s Teapot, circular logic is an actual, provable fallacy rather than a rhetorical tool *that is not a result of logic*. More importantly, you’re depending on *logic as a system of faith*, just like religion, unless you’ve found some results that contradict Gödel and company. We’ve made all of it up and, with our understanding today, it is not objective.
          """
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          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
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          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
          "@return2ozma@lemmy.world"
          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
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        +apId: "https://programming.dev/comment/6489470"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1724293306 {#2300
          date: 2024-08-22 04:21:46.0 +02:00
        }
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          date: 2024-01-15 21:52:02.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 311745
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2072
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2069 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: """
          You’re very focused on religion and seem to be missing all of the points about logic.\n
          \n
          > not saying that … pretty agnostic\n
          \n
          Cool, we’re on the same page.\n
          \n
          > If someone makes a claim… it needs… evidence\n
          \n
          This is problematic without a rigorous definition of evidence. I’m assuming you mean something along the lines of repeatable and independently verifiable since you won’t take a claim at face value. If you’re going to rigorously define evidence, you’re going to need to create a system that can’t contradict itself. Per your quotes, either there is a ball in my hand or there isn’t.\n
          \n
          This is called [a consistent system](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consistency). We agree on a set of axioms that we will achieve results from. If we have a consistent system and build a bunch of results on top of that, eventually we’ll run into things that are true but we cannot prove. We know this [because of a famous result I’ve already mentioned](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del%27s_incompleteness_theorems). In other words, we must take central results on faith. A common one that, several decades ago, was met with ridicule because it was “so illogical” mathematicians had “suspend reality in order for it to make any sense” is [the axiom of choice](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axiom_of_choice).\n
          \n
          In other words, you can’t use logic and reason to say those that believe in religion are idiots because you have just as much proof as they do (just faith) if we accept the basic axioms that drive our logical system.\n
          \n
          > doesn’t exist because it doesn’t exist… isn’t circular logic\n
          \n
          You’re conflating [a tautology](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tautology_(logic)) with [circular reasoning](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning). Circular reasoning boils down to “A because B; B because A;” and you’ve said “A because A” without any support for A. The lack of something in your hand is not necessary and sufficient to prove the ball’s existence. The only claim we can make is that your hand is empty.\n
          \n
          Here is a metaphysical claim for you to chew on: it is possible to know whether or not it is possible to prove a claim.
          """
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          date: 2024-01-16 00:35:15.0 +01:00
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      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2057
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: "All of this continues to go past you. You want to attack the metaphysical for its belief system yet you completely miss when you make the same logical leaps for yours. How can insurance companies prove something? Why are they *right*? If a court makes a decision, is that the *correct* one? Prove it. Only you can’t use logic or anything that comes from logical systems because, based on your attacks on religion, you’re not allowed to use the faith to prove the faith."
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          date: 2024-01-16 06:08:38.0 +01:00
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          "@return2ozma@lemmy.world"
          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
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          date: 2024-01-16 06:08:38.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 312795
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2101
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
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        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2102 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: """
          You haven’t shown that an insurance decision is correct. You also didn’t show that a court decision is right. You’re not seeing the forest for the trees.\n
          \n
          Your faith is that evidence trumps all. That is a baseless claim unless you can prove it *without the structures of evidence-based discourse*. You are using logic to prove your statements which is logically equivalent to “god said so.” You argue your beliefs trump theirs; you are equivalent using your foundation. Your religion is logic which, as I have pointed out many times without comment from you, is just as made up as any religion and more importantly has the introspective capabilities to prove so.\n
          \n
          This is a fairly straightforward epistemological argument; I’ve run out of ways to say it. Good luck!
          """
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          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
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        +"title": 314135
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2123
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        +body: "You can’t explain logic so I’m not sure you have an understanding of the arguments you’re attempting to make. I’m not seeing any justification other than “I think it’s it right.” I’ve seen no counters to the quantitative philosophical propositions and a general lack of understanding of any of the things that underpin your belief system. You still haven’t explained why your system is *right*."
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          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2198
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: """
          If it is so self-evident, you should be able to explain why your faith in evidence trumps anyone else’s faith in anything else. You don’t know why you believe what you believe and you’re completely incapable (so far, based on the evidence you’ve provided) of doing anything beyond “James Randi says it so it must be true.” You seem to blindly believe anything anyone in a position of authority states (courts, insurance always right provided they have a modicum of evidence to support their claim). You pound the “evidence trumps everything” pulpit yet can’t explain why, logically, that might make sense.\n
          \n
          You remind me of the evangelicals I’m also not a fan of.
          """
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          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
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        -bodyTs: "'abl':11 'also':117 'alway':79 'anyon':20,70 'anyth':25,53,69 'author':75 'base':44 'believ':33,36,68 'beyond':54 'blind':67 'claim':91 'complet':40 'court':77 'els':21,26 'evangel':114 'everyth':97 'evid':7,18,47,87,95 'explain':13,102 'faith':16,23 'fan':120 'far':43 'incap':41 'insur':78 'jame':55 'know':30 'logic':104 'm':116 'make':107 'might':106 'modicum':85 'must':61 'posit':73 'pound':93 'provid':50,81 'pulpit':98 'randi':56 're':39 'remind':110 'right':80 'say':57 'seem':65 'self':6 'self-evid':5 'sens':108 'state':76 'support':89 'true':63 'trump':19,96 've':49 'yet':99"
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2311}
    ]
    -id: 30602
    -titleTs: "'2024':5 'believ':17 'human':11 'knowledg':10 'peopl':15 'religion':19 'still':16 'year':4"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1705398124
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemmy.world/post/10734946"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705311724 {#3021
      date: 2024-01-15 10:42:04.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2298 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
  +body: """
    Why are 1 and 3 the correct options? Why are they even correct? Why is 2 wrong? You don’t seem to realize any of the foundation you’re building on and you’ve done nothing other than say “if I provide evidence,” that’s enough.\n
    \n
    Here’s a thought experiment. I take you into a closed room, put purple film over a window, and tell you the sky is purple. You’ve now got irrefutable proof that the sky is purple. But wait, you say! I can go outside and find different evidence, so clearly *having evidence alone is not enough*. We could even sidestep the problem by saying that the sky is colorless; it’s the refraction of the light that makes the color. Different frame; different counter.\n
    \n
    So why are you right? Why is your frame correct?
    """
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    "@return2ozma@lemmy.world"
    "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
    "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
    "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
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    date: 2024-01-17 04:14:38.0 +01:00
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}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
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"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
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Show voter details
104 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2311
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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    +slug: "Why-in-the-year-2024-and-with-all-the-knowledge"
    +title: "Why in the year 2024 and with all the knowledge humans have now do people still believe in religion?"
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      date: 2024-01-22 02:19:07.0 +01:00
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      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2344
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +body: """
          This is a fundamental misunderstanding of Russell’s Teapot. If someone claims there is a teapot floating in space, cool, they need to prove its existence and the rest of us can go around as if one doesn’t exist. If someone claims there isn’t a teapot floating in space, now the burden of proof is on them. We can quickly exercise some critical thinking and realize that, while there might be a teapot in space someone brought with them and left, it’s not going to be beyond the asteroid belt.\n
          \n
          Now do every belief system with empirical evidence. You can’t, primarily because belief in the logic used to prove that empirical evidence is the best evidence is itself a belief system. Changing any one of the axioms that underpin your methodology completely changes the methodology (eg parallel lines meet at infinity turns geometry into hyperbolic geometry). Furthermore, we can extend Gödel’s incompleteness theorems to any formal system, like you’re attempting to employ, and show that they can’t prove themselves.\n
          \n
          In other words, we must take things on faith if we want to use logic and pull out statement related to logic like “burden of proof is on the positive.” You can believe whatever the fuck you want; you just can’t prove it and, in most metaphysical cases, you can’t disprove it either.
          """
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          date: 2024-01-15 19:36:52.0 +01:00
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      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2340
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        +body: """
          Again, fundamental misunderstanding of Russell’s Teapot. You’re attempting to talk about proof, using the language of logic, to make sweeping claims that logic cannot make.\n
          \n
          If you’re saying we can neither prove nor disprove the metaphysical, we’re on the same page.\n
          \n
          If you’re saying the metaphysical doesn’t exist because no one has proved it and they have to prove it first, you don’t understand how logic, as we understand it today, works.\n
          \n
          Edit: to highlight your issues a little, “it doesn’t exist because it doesn’t exist” isn’t logically sound. Unlike Russell’s Teapot, circular logic is an actual, provable fallacy rather than a rhetorical tool *that is not a result of logic*. More importantly, you’re depending on *logic as a system of faith*, just like religion, unless you’ve found some results that contradict Gödel and company. We’ve made all of it up and, with our understanding today, it is not objective.
          """
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          date: 2024-08-22 04:21:46.0 +02:00
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          date: 2024-01-15 21:52:02.0 +01:00
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      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2072
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
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        +body: """
          You’re very focused on religion and seem to be missing all of the points about logic.\n
          \n
          > not saying that … pretty agnostic\n
          \n
          Cool, we’re on the same page.\n
          \n
          > If someone makes a claim… it needs… evidence\n
          \n
          This is problematic without a rigorous definition of evidence. I’m assuming you mean something along the lines of repeatable and independently verifiable since you won’t take a claim at face value. If you’re going to rigorously define evidence, you’re going to need to create a system that can’t contradict itself. Per your quotes, either there is a ball in my hand or there isn’t.\n
          \n
          This is called [a consistent system](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consistency). We agree on a set of axioms that we will achieve results from. If we have a consistent system and build a bunch of results on top of that, eventually we’ll run into things that are true but we cannot prove. We know this [because of a famous result I’ve already mentioned](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del%27s_incompleteness_theorems). In other words, we must take central results on faith. A common one that, several decades ago, was met with ridicule because it was “so illogical” mathematicians had “suspend reality in order for it to make any sense” is [the axiom of choice](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axiom_of_choice).\n
          \n
          In other words, you can’t use logic and reason to say those that believe in religion are idiots because you have just as much proof as they do (just faith) if we accept the basic axioms that drive our logical system.\n
          \n
          > doesn’t exist because it doesn’t exist… isn’t circular logic\n
          \n
          You’re conflating [a tautology](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tautology_(logic)) with [circular reasoning](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning). Circular reasoning boils down to “A because B; B because A;” and you’ve said “A because A” without any support for A. The lack of something in your hand is not necessary and sufficient to prove the ball’s existence. The only claim we can make is that your hand is empty.\n
          \n
          Here is a metaphysical claim for you to chew on: it is possible to know whether or not it is possible to prove a claim.
          """
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          date: 2024-01-16 00:35:15.0 +01:00
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      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2057
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        +body: "All of this continues to go past you. You want to attack the metaphysical for its belief system yet you completely miss when you make the same logical leaps for yours. How can insurance companies prove something? Why are they *right*? If a court makes a decision, is that the *correct* one? Prove it. Only you can’t use logic or anything that comes from logical systems because, based on your attacks on religion, you’re not allowed to use the faith to prove the faith."
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2101
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2102 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: """
          You haven’t shown that an insurance decision is correct. You also didn’t show that a court decision is right. You’re not seeing the forest for the trees.\n
          \n
          Your faith is that evidence trumps all. That is a baseless claim unless you can prove it *without the structures of evidence-based discourse*. You are using logic to prove your statements which is logically equivalent to “god said so.” You argue your beliefs trump theirs; you are equivalent using your foundation. Your religion is logic which, as I have pointed out many times without comment from you, is just as made up as any religion and more importantly has the introspective capabilities to prove so.\n
          \n
          This is a fairly straightforward epistemological argument; I’ve run out of ways to say it. Good luck!
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1705422176 {#2108
          date: 2024-01-16 17:22:56.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@return2ozma@lemmy.world"
          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2109 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2106 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2107 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2124 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2118 …}
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        -id: 314135
        -bodyTs: "'also':12 'argu':73 'argument':124 'base':54 'baseless':41 'belief':75 'capabl':114 'claim':42 'comment':97 'correct':10 'court':18 'decis':8,19 'didn':13 'discours':55 'epistemolog':123 'equival':67,80 'evid':35,53 'evidence-bas':52 'fair':121 'faith':32 'forest':27 'foundat':83 'god':69 'good':134 'haven':2 'import':110 'insur':7 'introspect':113 'logic':59,66,87 'luck':135 'made':103 'mani':94 'point':92 'prove':46,61,116 're':23 'religion':85,107 'right':21 'run':127 'said':70 'say':132 'see':25 'show':15 'shown':4 'statement':63 'straightforward':122 'structur':50 'time':95 'tree':30 'trump':36,76 'unless':43 'use':58,81 've':126 'way':130 'without':48,96"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://programming.dev/comment/6521954"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705422176 {#2111
          date: 2024-01-16 17:22:56.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 314135
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2123
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2119 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: "You can’t explain logic so I’m not sure you have an understanding of the arguments you’re attempting to make. I’m not seeing any justification other than “I think it’s it right.” I’ve seen no counters to the quantitative philosophical propositions and a general lack of understanding of any of the things that underpin your belief system. You still haven’t explained why your system is *right*."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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        +lastActive: DateTime @1705437027 {#2115
          date: 2024-01-16 21:30:27.0 +01:00
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        +ip: null
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          "@return2ozma@lemmy.world"
          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2116 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2161 …}
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        -id: 314857
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        +ranking: 0
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705437027 {#2113
          date: 2024-01-16 21:30:27.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 314857
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2198
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2349 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2223 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
        +body: """
          If it is so self-evident, you should be able to explain why your faith in evidence trumps anyone else’s faith in anything else. You don’t know why you believe what you believe and you’re completely incapable (so far, based on the evidence you’ve provided) of doing anything beyond “James Randi says it so it must be true.” You seem to blindly believe anything anyone in a position of authority states (courts, insurance always right provided they have a modicum of evidence to support their claim). You pound the “evidence trumps everything” pulpit yet can’t explain why, logically, that might make sense.\n
          \n
          You remind me of the evangelicals I’m also not a fan of.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
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          date: 2024-01-17 00:58:46.0 +01:00
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          "@return2ozma@lemmy.world"
          "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
          "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
          "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2227 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2214 …}
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        -id: 315410
        -bodyTs: "'abl':11 'also':117 'alway':79 'anyon':20,70 'anyth':25,53,69 'author':75 'base':44 'believ':33,36,68 'beyond':54 'blind':67 'claim':91 'complet':40 'court':77 'els':21,26 'evangel':114 'everyth':97 'evid':7,18,47,87,95 'explain':13,102 'faith':16,23 'fan':120 'far':43 'incap':41 'insur':78 'jame':55 'know':30 'logic':104 'm':116 'make':107 'might':106 'modicum':85 'must':61 'posit':73 'pound':93 'provid':50,81 'pulpit':98 'randi':56 're':39 'remind':110 'right':80 'say':57 'seem':65 'self':6 'self-evid':5 'sens':108 'state':76 'support':89 'true':63 'trump':19,96 've':49 'yet':99"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705449526 {#2224
          date: 2024-01-17 00:58:46.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 315410
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2311}
    ]
    -id: 30602
    -titleTs: "'2024':5 'believ':17 'human':11 'knowledg':10 'peopl':15 'religion':19 'still':16 'year':4"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1705398124
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemmy.world/post/10734946"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705311724 {#3021
      date: 2024-01-15 10:42:04.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2042 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2298 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2060 …}
  +body: """
    Why are 1 and 3 the correct options? Why are they even correct? Why is 2 wrong? You don’t seem to realize any of the foundation you’re building on and you’ve done nothing other than say “if I provide evidence,” that’s enough.\n
    \n
    Here’s a thought experiment. I take you into a closed room, put purple film over a window, and tell you the sky is purple. You’ve now got irrefutable proof that the sky is purple. But wait, you say! I can go outside and find different evidence, so clearly *having evidence alone is not enough*. We could even sidestep the problem by saying that the sky is colorless; it’s the refraction of the light that makes the color. Different frame; different counter.\n
    \n
    So why are you right? Why is your frame correct?
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 0
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1705461278 {#2189
    date: 2024-01-17 04:14:38.0 +01:00
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  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@return2ozma@lemmy.world"
    "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
    "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
    "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2293 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2309 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2302 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2320 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2322 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2312 …}
  -id: 315804
  -bodyTs: "'1':3 '2':16 '3':5 'alon':99 'build':30 'clear':96 'close':57 'color':126 'colorless':115 'correct':7,13,140 'could':104 'counter':130 'differ':93,127,129 'done':35 'enough':46,102 'even':12,105 'evid':43,94,98 'experi':51 'film':61 'find':92 'foundat':27 'frame':128,139 'go':89 'got':75 'irrefut':76 'light':122 'make':124 'noth':36 'option':8 'outsid':90 'problem':108 'proof':77 'provid':42 'purpl':60,71,82 'put':59 're':29 'realiz':23 'refract':119 'right':135 'room':58 'say':39,86,110 'seem':21 'sidestep':106 'sky':69,80,113 'take':53 'tell':66 'thought':50 've':34,73 'wait':84 'window':64 'wrong':17"
  +ranking: 0
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  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705461278 {#2299
    date: 2024-01-17 04:14:38.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 315804
}
 
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105 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
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106 DENIED moderate 
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1705
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2981 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1711 …}
  +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3020 …}
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3022 …}
  +slug: "Canonical-changes-the-license-of-LXD-to-AGPL"
  +title: "Canonical changes the license of LXD to AGPL"
  +url: "https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/lxd-5-20-has-been-released/40865"
  +body: null
  +type: "link"
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  +isOc: false
  +hasEmbed: false
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  +sticky: false
  +lastActive: DateTime @1703342592 {#3015
    date: 2023-12-23 15:43:12.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +adaAmount: 0
  +tags: null
  +mentions: null
  +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3023 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3025 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3027 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3029 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3031 …}
  +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3033 …}
  +children: [
    3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1723
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1705 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1711 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1722 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1721 …}
      +body: "They would have used a license like SSPL or the newer BSL for that. AGPL keeps it open. They got that going for them and about nothing else."
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
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        "@wiki_me@lemmy.ml"
        "@woelkchen@lemmy.world"
        "@bear@slrpnk.net"
      ]
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      -id: 239025
      -bodyTs: "'agpl':15 'bsl':12 'els':28 'go':22 'got':20 'keep':16 'licens':6 'like':7 'newer':11 'noth':27 'open':18 'sspl':8 'use':4 'would':2"
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      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703114841 {#1725
        date: 2023-12-21 00:27:21.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 239025
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    2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1714
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1705 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1711 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1718 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1721 …}
      +body: "I don’t understand how AGPL allows Canonical to make and sell proprietary copies of this software without violating their license. That’s the only way your scenario could happen. If you’re aware of a situation where a company can do this, I’d love to learn."
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        "@woelkchen@lemmy.world"
        "@bear@slrpnk.net"
        "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
      ]
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      +"title": 240818
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    1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2462
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1705 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1711 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2458 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1721 …}
      +body: "Wow! I learned something. To return the favor, life would be better for you if you were less rude in the way you convey information."
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        "@woelkchen@lemmy.world"
        "@bear@slrpnk.net"
        "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
      ]
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      +"title": 241032
    }
    0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1795
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1705 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1711 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: null
      +root: null
      +body: "No other company will contribute to LXD now. This is 100% a Canonical tool. Were the big clouds looking at deploying LXD so Canonical tried to block them?"
      +lang: "en"
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      +favouriteCount: 6
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  ]
  -id: 23586
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   …2
}
 
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2462
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"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
111 DENIED edit 
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"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
112 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1723
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1795
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    -id: 23586
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  }
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  +body: "They would have used a license like SSPL or the newer BSL for that. AGPL keeps it open. They got that going for them and about nothing else."
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}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
113 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
114 DENIED moderate 
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1714}
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      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1795
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     …2
  }
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  +body: "I don’t understand how AGPL allows Canonical to make and sell proprietary copies of this software without violating their license. That’s the only way your scenario could happen. If you’re aware of a situation where a company can do this, I’d love to learn."
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"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
115 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1714
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1714}
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        +"title": 241032
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1795
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    -id: 23586
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      date: 2023-12-20 15:40:08.0 +01:00
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     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1711 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1718 …}
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  +body: "I don’t understand how AGPL allows Canonical to make and sell proprietary copies of this software without violating their license. That’s the only way your scenario could happen. If you’re aware of a situation where a company can do this, I’d love to learn."
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"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
116 DENIED moderate 
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1714}
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      }
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    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
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"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
117 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
118 DENIED moderate 
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    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3020 …}
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1723
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1714
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        +"title": 240818
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2462}
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1795
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          "@wiki_me@lemmy.ml"
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        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1616 …}
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        -id: 239012
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     …2
  }
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"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
119 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2462
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1705
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2981 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1711 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3020 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3022 …}
    +slug: "Canonical-changes-the-license-of-LXD-to-AGPL"
    +title: "Canonical changes the license of LXD to AGPL"
    +url: "https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/lxd-5-20-has-been-released/40865"
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    }
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    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3023 …}
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    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3031 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3033 …}
    +children: [
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1723
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        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1705 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1711 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1722 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1721 …}
        +body: "They would have used a license like SSPL or the newer BSL for that. AGPL keeps it open. They got that going for them and about nothing else."
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          "@woelkchen@lemmy.world"
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          date: 2023-12-21 00:27:21.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 239025
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1714
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        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1705 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1711 …}
        +image: null
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        +body: "I don’t understand how AGPL allows Canonical to make and sell proprietary copies of this software without violating their license. That’s the only way your scenario could happen. If you’re aware of a situation where a company can do this, I’d love to learn."
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          "@woelkchen@lemmy.world"
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        }
        +"title": 240818
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2462}
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1795
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1705 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1711 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: null
        +root: null
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          "@wiki_me@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1616 …}
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        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1629 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1626 …}
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        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1597 …}
        -id: 239012
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          date: 2023-12-21 00:23:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 239012
      }
    ]
    -id: 23586
    -titleTs: "'agpl':8 'canon':1 'chang':2 'licens':4 'lxd':6"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
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    +ranking: 1703169608
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703083208 {#3002
      date: 2023-12-20 15:40:08.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1711 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2458 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1721 …}
  +body: "Wow! I learned something. To return the favor, life would be better for you if you were less rude in the way you convey information."
  +lang: "en"
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    "@woelkchen@lemmy.world"
    "@bear@slrpnk.net"
    "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2461 …}
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}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
120 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2462
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1705
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2981 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1711 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3020 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3022 …}
    +slug: "Canonical-changes-the-license-of-LXD-to-AGPL"
    +title: "Canonical changes the license of LXD to AGPL"
    +url: "https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/lxd-5-20-has-been-released/40865"
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    }
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    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3023 …}
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1723
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        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1722 …}
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        +"title": 239025
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1714
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          "@woelkchen@lemmy.world"
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        }
        +"title": 240818
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2462}
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1795
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        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1705 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1711 …}
        +image: null
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          "@wiki_me@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1616 …}
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          date: 2023-12-21 00:23:29.0 +01:00
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      }
    ]
    -id: 23586
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    +ranking: 1703169608
    +visibility: "visible             "
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703083208 {#3002
      date: 2023-12-20 15:40:08.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1711 …}
  +image: null
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    "@woelkchen@lemmy.world"
    "@bear@slrpnk.net"
    "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
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  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2461 …}
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"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
121 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
122 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1795
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          date: 2023-12-21 17:54:12.0 +01:00
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2462
        +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1711 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1721 …}
        +body: "Wow! I learned something. To return the favor, life would be better for you if you were less rude in the way you convey information."
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          "@woelkchen@lemmy.world"
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1795}
    ]
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     …2
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  +body: "No other company will contribute to LXD now. This is 100% a Canonical tool. Were the big clouds looking at deploying LXD so Canonical tried to block them?"
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}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
125 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
126 DENIED moderate 
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1558
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  +slug: "Apps-that-shouldn-t-be-Subscriptions"
  +title: "Apps that shouldn't be Subscriptions"
  +url: null
  +body: """
    What is the most useless app that you have seen being given as a *subscription*?\n
    \n
    For me, I tried a ‘minimalist’ launcher app for Android that had a 7 day trial or something and they had a yearly subscription based model for it. I was aghast. I would literally expect the app to blow my mind and do everything one can assume to go that way. In a world, where Nova Launcher (Yes, I know it has been acquired by Branch folks but it still is a sturdy one) or Niagara exist plus many alternatives including minimalist ones on F Droid, the dev must be releasing revolutionary stuff to factor in a subscription service.\n
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    \n
    Also, what are your views on one time purchase vs subscriptions? Personally, I find it much easier to purchase, if it’s good enough even if it was piratable, something if it is a one time purchase rather than repetitive.
    """
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      +image: null
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        In all fairness to Pocket Casts, the yearly cost in the US is $40, which is about the monthly cost of the three things you mentioned together. If your country gives you yearly Google Play Pass, YouTube Premium, and Spotify Premium for less than $40 US, that’s a fucking steal.\n
        \n
        In all fuck you to Pocket Casts, Basic App functionality like folders shouldn’t be behind a subscription. I can understand a one-time unlock fee for app functionality or ongoing subscription costs to cover cloud storage and sync capabilities. I cannot fucking understand why *folders* would cost me $40 US a year.
        """
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   …2
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
127 DENIED edit 
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1558
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  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1554 …}
  +image: null
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  +slug: "Apps-that-shouldn-t-be-Subscriptions"
  +title: "Apps that shouldn't be Subscriptions"
  +url: null
  +body: """
    What is the most useless app that you have seen being given as a *subscription*?\n
    \n
    For me, I tried a ‘minimalist’ launcher app for Android that had a 7 day trial or something and they had a yearly subscription based model for it. I was aghast. I would literally expect the app to blow my mind and do everything one can assume to go that way. In a world, where Nova Launcher (Yes, I know it has been acquired by Branch folks but it still is a sturdy one) or Niagara exist plus many alternatives including minimalist ones on F Droid, the dev must be releasing revolutionary stuff to factor in a subscription service.\n
    \n
    Second, is a controversial choice, since it’s free tier is quite good and people like it so much. But, *Pocketcasts*. I checked it’s yearly price the other day, and boy, in my country, I can subscribe to *Google Play Pass*, *YouTube Premium* and *Spotify* and still have money left before I hit the ceiling what Pocketcasts is asking for paid upgrade.\n
    \n
    Also, what are your views on one time purchase vs subscriptions? Personally, I find it much easier to purchase, if it’s good enough even if it was piratable, something if it is a one time purchase rather than repetitive.
    """
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      +image: null
      +parent: null
      +root: null
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        In all fairness to Pocket Casts, the yearly cost in the US is $40, which is about the monthly cost of the three things you mentioned together. If your country gives you yearly Google Play Pass, YouTube Premium, and Spotify Premium for less than $40 US, that’s a fucking steal.\n
        \n
        In all fuck you to Pocket Casts, Basic App functionality like folders shouldn’t be behind a subscription. I can understand a one-time unlock fee for app functionality or ongoing subscription costs to cover cloud storage and sync capabilities. I cannot fucking understand why *folders* would cost me $40 US a year.
        """
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   …2
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"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
128 DENIED moderate 
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1558
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  +image: null
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3001 …}
  +slug: "Apps-that-shouldn-t-be-Subscriptions"
  +title: "Apps that shouldn't be Subscriptions"
  +url: null
  +body: """
    What is the most useless app that you have seen being given as a *subscription*?\n
    \n
    For me, I tried a ‘minimalist’ launcher app for Android that had a 7 day trial or something and they had a yearly subscription based model for it. I was aghast. I would literally expect the app to blow my mind and do everything one can assume to go that way. In a world, where Nova Launcher (Yes, I know it has been acquired by Branch folks but it still is a sturdy one) or Niagara exist plus many alternatives including minimalist ones on F Droid, the dev must be releasing revolutionary stuff to factor in a subscription service.\n
    \n
    Second, is a controversial choice, since it’s free tier is quite good and people like it so much. But, *Pocketcasts*. I checked it’s yearly price the other day, and boy, in my country, I can subscribe to *Google Play Pass*, *YouTube Premium* and *Spotify* and still have money left before I hit the ceiling what Pocketcasts is asking for paid upgrade.\n
    \n
    Also, what are your views on one time purchase vs subscriptions? Personally, I find it much easier to purchase, if it’s good enough even if it was piratable, something if it is a one time purchase rather than repetitive.
    """
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      +image: null
      +parent: null
      +root: null
      +body: """
        In all fairness to Pocket Casts, the yearly cost in the US is $40, which is about the monthly cost of the three things you mentioned together. If your country gives you yearly Google Play Pass, YouTube Premium, and Spotify Premium for less than $40 US, that’s a fucking steal.\n
        \n
        In all fuck you to Pocket Casts, Basic App functionality like folders shouldn’t be behind a subscription. I can understand a one-time unlock fee for app functionality or ongoing subscription costs to cover cloud storage and sync capabilities. I cannot fucking understand why *folders* would cost me $40 US a year.
        """
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
129 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
130 DENIED moderate 
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      What is the most useless app that you have seen being given as a *subscription*?\n
      \n
      For me, I tried a ‘minimalist’ launcher app for Android that had a 7 day trial or something and they had a yearly subscription based model for it. I was aghast. I would literally expect the app to blow my mind and do everything one can assume to go that way. In a world, where Nova Launcher (Yes, I know it has been acquired by Branch folks but it still is a sturdy one) or Niagara exist plus many alternatives including minimalist ones on F Droid, the dev must be releasing revolutionary stuff to factor in a subscription service.\n
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      \n
      Also, what are your views on one time purchase vs subscriptions? Personally, I find it much easier to purchase, if it’s good enough even if it was piratable, something if it is a one time purchase rather than repetitive.
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    In all fairness to Pocket Casts, the yearly cost in the US is $40, which is about the monthly cost of the three things you mentioned together. If your country gives you yearly Google Play Pass, YouTube Premium, and Spotify Premium for less than $40 US, that’s a fucking steal.\n
    \n
    In all fuck you to Pocket Casts, Basic App functionality like folders shouldn’t be behind a subscription. I can understand a one-time unlock fee for app functionality or ongoing subscription costs to cover cloud storage and sync capabilities. I cannot fucking understand why *folders* would cost me $40 US a year.
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
131 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1556
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      What is the most useless app that you have seen being given as a *subscription*?\n
      \n
      For me, I tried a ‘minimalist’ launcher app for Android that had a 7 day trial or something and they had a yearly subscription based model for it. I was aghast. I would literally expect the app to blow my mind and do everything one can assume to go that way. In a world, where Nova Launcher (Yes, I know it has been acquired by Branch folks but it still is a sturdy one) or Niagara exist plus many alternatives including minimalist ones on F Droid, the dev must be releasing revolutionary stuff to factor in a subscription service.\n
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      \n
      Also, what are your views on one time purchase vs subscriptions? Personally, I find it much easier to purchase, if it’s good enough even if it was piratable, something if it is a one time purchase rather than repetitive.
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     …2
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    In all fairness to Pocket Casts, the yearly cost in the US is $40, which is about the monthly cost of the three things you mentioned together. If your country gives you yearly Google Play Pass, YouTube Premium, and Spotify Premium for less than $40 US, that’s a fucking steal.\n
    \n
    In all fuck you to Pocket Casts, Basic App functionality like folders shouldn’t be behind a subscription. I can understand a one-time unlock fee for app functionality or ongoing subscription costs to cover cloud storage and sync capabilities. I cannot fucking understand why *folders* would cost me $40 US a year.
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"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
132 DENIED moderate 
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      \n
      For me, I tried a ‘minimalist’ launcher app for Android that had a 7 day trial or something and they had a yearly subscription based model for it. I was aghast. I would literally expect the app to blow my mind and do everything one can assume to go that way. In a world, where Nova Launcher (Yes, I know it has been acquired by Branch folks but it still is a sturdy one) or Niagara exist plus many alternatives including minimalist ones on F Droid, the dev must be releasing revolutionary stuff to factor in a subscription service.\n
      \n
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      \n
      Also, what are your views on one time purchase vs subscriptions? Personally, I find it much easier to purchase, if it’s good enough even if it was piratable, something if it is a one time purchase rather than repetitive.
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    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1702733354
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://discuss.tchncs.de/post/7825639"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1702646954 {#3041
      date: 2023-12-15 14:29:14.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1554 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: null
  +root: null
  +body: """
    In all fairness to Pocket Casts, the yearly cost in the US is $40, which is about the monthly cost of the three things you mentioned together. If your country gives you yearly Google Play Pass, YouTube Premium, and Spotify Premium for less than $40 US, that’s a fucking steal.\n
    \n
    In all fuck you to Pocket Casts, Basic App functionality like folders shouldn’t be behind a subscription. I can understand a one-time unlock fee for app functionality or ongoing subscription costs to cover cloud storage and sync capabilities. I cannot fucking understand why *folders* would cost me $40 US a year.
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
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    date: 2024-01-13 05:38:22.0 +01:00
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    "@kirk782@discuss.tchncs.de"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1565 …}
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  -id: 224402
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    date: 2023-12-15 14:59:34.0 +01:00
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  +"title": 224402
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
133 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
134 DENIED moderate 
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   …2
}
 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
135 DENIED edit 
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1551
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    date: 2023-12-07 19:31:19.0 +01:00
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   …2
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
136 DENIED moderate 
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1551
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  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1573 …}
  +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3166 …}
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   …2
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
137 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
138 DENIED moderate 
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     …2
  }
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  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1687 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1701 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1619 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1604 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1620 …}
  -id: 210719
  -bodyTs: "'anyth':20 'attempt':6 'bad':21,30 'faith':31 'flesh':8 'good':28,32 'ignor':3 'link':15 'list':18 'luck':33 'point':11 'question':5 'refus':13 'specif':17 'think':25 'understand':27 've':2"
  +ranking: 0
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  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://programming.dev/comment/5533242"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701998985 {#1549
    date: 2023-12-08 02:29:45.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 210719
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
139 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1560
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1551
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#3126 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1573 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3166 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3168 …}
    +slug: "Proton-domains-blocked-as-disposable-in-disposable-filter"
    +title: "Proton domains blocked as disposable in disposable filter"
    +url: "https://github.com/wesbos/burner-email-providers/issues/422"
    +body: "I hope it is a way to solve this…"
    +type: "link"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: false
    +commentCount: 34
    +favouriteCount: 127
    +score: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +sticky: false
    +lastActive: DateTime @1702034728 {#3161
      date: 2023-12-08 12:25:28.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3169 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3171 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3173 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3175 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3177 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3179 …}
    +children: [
      App\Entity\EntryComment {#1560}
    ]
    -id: 20936
    -titleTs: "'block':3 'dispos':5,7 'domain':2 'filter':8 'proton':1"
    -bodyTs: "'hope':2 'solv':8 'way':6"
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1702060279
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://discuss.online/post/3488962"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701973879 {#3149
      date: 2023-12-07 19:31:19.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1573 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1692 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1691 …}
  +body: "You’ve ignored my questions attempting to flesh out your point and refuse to link this specific list to anything bad. I don’t think you understand good or bad faith. Good luck with that!"
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 3
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    date: 2023-12-08 02:29:45.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
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  +mentions: [
    "@privacyfighter@discuss.online"
    "@ono@lemmy.ca"
    "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1689 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1687 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1701 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1619 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1604 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1620 …}
  -id: 210719
  -bodyTs: "'anyth':20 'attempt':6 'bad':21,30 'faith':31 'flesh':8 'good':28,32 'ignor':3 'link':15 'list':18 'luck':33 'point':11 'question':5 'refus':13 'specif':17 'think':25 'understand':27 've':2"
  +ranking: 0
  +commentCount: 0
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
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  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701998985 {#1549
    date: 2023-12-08 02:29:45.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 210719
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
140 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1560
  +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1551
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#3126 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1573 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3166 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3168 …}
    +slug: "Proton-domains-blocked-as-disposable-in-disposable-filter"
    +title: "Proton domains blocked as disposable in disposable filter"
    +url: "https://github.com/wesbos/burner-email-providers/issues/422"
    +body: "I hope it is a way to solve this…"
    +type: "link"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: false
    +commentCount: 34
    +favouriteCount: 127
    +score: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +sticky: false
    +lastActive: DateTime @1702034728 {#3161
      date: 2023-12-08 12:25:28.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3169 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3171 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3173 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3175 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3177 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3179 …}
    +children: [
      App\Entity\EntryComment {#1560}
    ]
    -id: 20936
    -titleTs: "'block':3 'dispos':5,7 'domain':2 'filter':8 'proton':1"
    -bodyTs: "'hope':2 'solv':8 'way':6"
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1702060279
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://discuss.online/post/3488962"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701973879 {#3149
      date: 2023-12-07 19:31:19.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1573 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1692 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1691 …}
  +body: "You’ve ignored my questions attempting to flesh out your point and refuse to link this specific list to anything bad. I don’t think you understand good or bad faith. Good luck with that!"
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 3
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1701998985 {#1672
    date: 2023-12-08 02:29:45.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@privacyfighter@discuss.online"
    "@ono@lemmy.ca"
    "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1689 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1687 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1701 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1619 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1604 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1620 …}
  -id: 210719
  -bodyTs: "'anyth':20 'attempt':6 'bad':21,30 'faith':31 'flesh':8 'good':28,32 'ignor':3 'link':15 'list':18 'luck':33 'point':11 'question':5 'refus':13 'specif':17 'think':25 'understand':27 've':2"
  +ranking: 0
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  +visibility: "visible             "
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  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701998985 {#1549
    date: 2023-12-08 02:29:45.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 210719
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
141 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
142 DENIED moderate 
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1592
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2184 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1579 …}
  +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3108 …}
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2975 …}
  +slug: "Welcome-to-Capitalism"
  +title: "Welcome to Capitalism"
  +url: "https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/3b284e67-e8b0-4e79-8574-47fc904f481b.jpeg"
  +body: null
  +type: "image"
  +lang: "en"
  +isOc: false
  +hasEmbed: true
  +commentCount: 37
  +favouriteCount: 756
  +score: 0
  +isAdult: false
  +sticky: false
  +lastActive: DateTime @1701449118 {#3143
    date: 2023-12-01 17:45:18.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +adaAmount: 0
  +tags: null
  +mentions: null
  +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3148 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3151 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3153 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3155 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3157 …}
  +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3159 …}
  +children: [
    App\Entity\EntryComment {#1697
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1592 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1579 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: null
      +root: null
      +body: "[Context](https://www.cnbc.com/2023/11/29/elon-musk-to-advertisers-who-are-trying-to-blackmail-him-go-f----yourself.html) for anyone also confused"
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 51
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1702259861 {#1439
        date: 2023-12-11 02:57:41.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@kismattic@lemmy.world"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1580 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1583 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1582 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1589 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1572 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1666 …}
      -id: 179278
      -bodyTs: "'/2023/11/29/elon-musk-to-advertisers-who-are-trying-to-blackmail-him-go-f----yourself.html)':4 'also':7 'anyon':6 'confus':8 'context':1 'www.cnbc.com':3 'www.cnbc.com/2023/11/29/elon-musk-to-advertisers-who-are-trying-to-blackmail-him-go-f----yourself.html)':2"
      +ranking: 0
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      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
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      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701308308 {#1435
        date: 2023-11-30 02:38:28.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 179278
    }
  ]
  -id: 18385
  -titleTs: "'capit':3 'welcom':1"
  -bodyTs: null
  +cross: false
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +ranking: 1701392117
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://lemmy.world/post/8944736"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701305717 {#3129
    date: 2023-11-30 01:55:17.0 +01:00
  }
  +__isInitialized__: true
   …2
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
143 DENIED edit 
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1592
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2184 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1579 …}
  +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3108 …}
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2975 …}
  +slug: "Welcome-to-Capitalism"
  +title: "Welcome to Capitalism"
  +url: "https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/3b284e67-e8b0-4e79-8574-47fc904f481b.jpeg"
  +body: null
  +type: "image"
  +lang: "en"
  +isOc: false
  +hasEmbed: true
  +commentCount: 37
  +favouriteCount: 756
  +score: 0
  +isAdult: false
  +sticky: false
  +lastActive: DateTime @1701449118 {#3143
    date: 2023-12-01 17:45:18.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +adaAmount: 0
  +tags: null
  +mentions: null
  +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3148 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3151 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3153 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3155 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3157 …}
  +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3159 …}
  +children: [
    App\Entity\EntryComment {#1697
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1592 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1579 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: null
      +root: null
      +body: "[Context](https://www.cnbc.com/2023/11/29/elon-musk-to-advertisers-who-are-trying-to-blackmail-him-go-f----yourself.html) for anyone also confused"
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 51
      +score: 0
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        date: 2023-12-11 02:57:41.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
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      +mentions: [
        "@kismattic@lemmy.world"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1580 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1583 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1582 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1589 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1572 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1666 …}
      -id: 179278
      -bodyTs: "'/2023/11/29/elon-musk-to-advertisers-who-are-trying-to-blackmail-him-go-f----yourself.html)':4 'also':7 'anyon':6 'confus':8 'context':1 'www.cnbc.com':3 'www.cnbc.com/2023/11/29/elon-musk-to-advertisers-who-are-trying-to-blackmail-him-go-f----yourself.html)':2"
      +ranking: 0
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      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://programming.dev/comment/5298067"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701308308 {#1435
        date: 2023-11-30 02:38:28.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 179278
    }
  ]
  -id: 18385
  -titleTs: "'capit':3 'welcom':1"
  -bodyTs: null
  +cross: false
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +ranking: 1701392117
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://lemmy.world/post/8944736"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701305717 {#3129
    date: 2023-11-30 01:55:17.0 +01:00
  }
  +__isInitialized__: true
   …2
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
144 DENIED moderate 
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1592
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2184 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1579 …}
  +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3108 …}
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2975 …}
  +slug: "Welcome-to-Capitalism"
  +title: "Welcome to Capitalism"
  +url: "https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/3b284e67-e8b0-4e79-8574-47fc904f481b.jpeg"
  +body: null
  +type: "image"
  +lang: "en"
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  +hasEmbed: true
  +commentCount: 37
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  +score: 0
  +isAdult: false
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  +lastActive: DateTime @1701449118 {#3143
    date: 2023-12-01 17:45:18.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +adaAmount: 0
  +tags: null
  +mentions: null
  +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3148 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3151 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3153 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3155 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3157 …}
  +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3159 …}
  +children: [
    App\Entity\EntryComment {#1697
      +user: App\Entity\User {#265 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1592 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1579 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: null
      +root: null
      +body: "[Context](https://www.cnbc.com/2023/11/29/elon-musk-to-advertisers-who-are-trying-to-blackmail-him-go-f----yourself.html) for anyone also confused"
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
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      +score: 0
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        date: 2023-12-11 02:57:41.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
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      +mentions: [
        "@kismattic@lemmy.world"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1580 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1583 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1582 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1589 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1572 …}
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"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
145 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
146 DENIED moderate 
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"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
147 DENIED edit 
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"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
148 DENIED moderate 
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"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
149 DENIED ROLE_ADMIN 
null
 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
150 DENIED ROLE_MODERATOR 
null
 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details