GET https://kbin.spritesserver.nl/u/@michaelmrose@lemmy.world/comments?p=2

Components

20 Twig Components
129 Render Count
196 ms Render Time
14.0 MiB Memory Usage

Components

Name Metadata Render Count Render Time
settings_row_switch
"App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent"
components/_settings_row_switch.html.twig
15 19.23ms
date
"App\Twig\Components\DateComponent"
components/date.html.twig
12 1.90ms
entry_comment
"App\Twig\Components\EntryCommentComponent"
components/entry_comment.html.twig
11 164.74ms
user_inline
"App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent"
components/user_inline.html.twig
11 1.76ms
date_edited
"App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent"
components/date_edited.html.twig
11 1.19ms
magazine_inline
"App\Twig\Components\MagazineInlineComponent"
components/magazine_inline.html.twig
11 1.48ms
entry_inline
"App\Twig\Components\EntryInlineComponent"
components/entry_inline.html.twig
11 1.59ms
user_avatar
"App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent"
components/user_avatar.html.twig
11 1.48ms
vote
"App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent"
components/vote.html.twig
11 4.32ms
boost
"App\Twig\Components\BoostComponent"
components/boost.html.twig
11 8.84ms
user_settings_row_switch
"App\Twig\Components\UserSettingsRowSwitchComponent"
components/_user_settings_row_switch.html.twig
4 0.73ms
settings_row_enum
"App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowEnumComponent"
components/_settings_row_enum.html.twig
2 0.36ms
user_actions
"App\Twig\Components\UserActionsComponent"
components/user_actions.html.twig
1 0.44ms
related_magazines
"App\Twig\Components\RelatedMagazinesComponent"
components/_cached.html.twig
1 2.42ms
active_users
"App\Twig\Components\ActiveUsersComponent"
components/_cached.html.twig
1 0.21ms
related_categories
"App\Twig\Components\RelatedCategoriesComponent"
components/_cached.html.twig
1 3.41ms
related_posts
"App\Twig\Components\RelatedPostsComponent"
components/_cached.html.twig
1 1.34ms
related_entries
"App\Twig\Components\RelatedEntriesComponent"
components/_cached.html.twig
1 2.00ms
support_us_block
"App\Twig\Components\SupportUsBlock"
components/_cached.html.twig
1 0.38ms
featured_magazines
"App\Twig\Components\FeaturedMagazinesComponent"
components/_cached.html.twig
1 1.14ms

Render calls

entry_comment App\Twig\Components\EntryCommentComponent 14.0 MiB 15.86 ms
Input props
[
  "comment" => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2064
    +user: App\Entity\User {#261
      +avatar: null
      +cover: null
      +email: "michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
      +username: "@michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
      +roles: []
      +followersCount: 0
      +homepage: "front"
      +about: null
      +lastActive: DateTime @1719565078 {#269
        date: 2024-06-28 10:57:58.0 +02:00
      }
      +markedForDeletionAt: null
      +fields: null
      +oauthGithubId: null
      +oauthGoogleId: null
      +oauthFacebookId: null
      +oauthKeycloakId: null
      +hideAdult: true
      +showSubscribedUsers: true
      +showSubscribedMagazines: true
      +showSubscribedDomains: true
      +preferredLanguages: []
      +featuredMagazines: null
      +showProfileSubscriptions: false
      +showProfileFollowings: true
      +markNewComments: false
      +notifyOnNewEntry: false
      +notifyOnNewEntryReply: true
      +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: true
      +notifyOnNewPost: false
      +notifyOnNewPostReply: true
      +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: true
      +addMentionsEntries: false
      +addMentionsPosts: true
      +isBanned: false
      +isVerified: false
      +isDeleted: false
      +isBot: false
      +spamProtection: true
      +customCss: null
      +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
      +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#248 …}
      +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#244 …}
      +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#233 …}
      +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#191 …}
      +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#163 …}
      +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#136 …}
      +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#106 …}
      +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#79 …}
      +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#94 …}
      +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1793 …}
      +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1847 …}
      +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2478 …}
      +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1871 …}
      +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1605 …}
      +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1770 …}
      +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1844 …}
      +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1827 …}
      +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2415 …}
      +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1794 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2421 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1931 …}
      +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2401 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1885 …}
      +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1951 …}
      +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1886 …}
      +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1924 …}
      -id: 63226
      -password: "$2y$13$2sAZfN5Hpi2Nzs.wM6/Qa.K7Luw8j7/whTdYRKghYZdwNdole4.nu"
      -totpSecret: null
      -totpBackupCodes: []
      -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1896 …}
      +apId: "michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
      +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.world/u/michaelmrose"
      +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.world/u/michaelmrose"
      +apFollowersUrl: null
      +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.world/inbox"
      +apDomain: "lemmy.world"
      +apPreferredUsername: "michaelmrose"
      +apDiscoverable: true
      +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
      +privateKey: null
      +publicKey: null
      +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1705515156 {#272
        date: 2024-01-17 19:12:36.0 +01:00
      }
      +apDeletedAt: null
      +apTimeoutAt: null
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697782301 {#275
        date: 2023-10-20 08:11:41.0 +02:00
      }
    }
    +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1405
      +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2598 …}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2391
        +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2759 …}
        +name: "memes@lemmy.world"
        +title: "memes"
        +description: """
          Community rules\n
          ---------------\n
          \n
          1. Be civilNo trolling, bigotry or other insulting / annoying behaviour\n
          \n
          2. No politicsThis is non-politics community. For political memes please go to [!politicalmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/politicalmemes)\n
          \n
          3. No recent repostsCheck for reposts when posting a meme, you can only repost after 1 month\n
          \n
          4. No botsNo bots without the express approval of the mods or the admins\n
          \n
          5. No Spam/AdsNo advertisements or spam. This is an instance rule and the only way to live.\n
          \n
          \n
          \n
          Sister communities\n
          ------------------\n
          \n
          - [!tenforward@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward) : Star Trek memes, chat and shitposts\n
          - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
          - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
          - [!comicstrips@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips) : for those who love comic stories.
          """
        +rules: null
        +subscriptionsCount: 1
        +entryCount: 1112
        +entryCommentCount: 22597
        +postCount: 0
        +postCommentCount: 0
        +isAdult: false
        +customCss: null
        +lastActive: DateTime @1729581796 {#2756
          date: 2024-10-22 09:23:16.0 +02:00
        }
        +markedForDeletionAt: null
        +tags: null
        +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2760 …}
        +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2762 …}
        +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2764 …}
        +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2766 …}
        +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2768 …}
        +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2770 …}
        +bans: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2776 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2784 …}
        +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2797 …}
        +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2807 …}
        +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2789 …}
        +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2813 …}
        -id: 78
        +apId: "memes@lemmy.world"
        +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.world/c/memes"
        +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.world/c/memes"
        +apFollowersUrl: "https://lemmy.world/c/memes/followers"
        +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.world/inbox"
        +apDomain: "lemmy.world"
        +apPreferredUsername: "memes"
        +apDiscoverable: true
        +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
        +privateKey: null
        +publicKey: null
        +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1728743545 {#2757
          date: 2024-10-12 16:32:25.0 +02:00
        }
        +apDeletedAt: null
        +apTimeoutAt: null
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699084255 {#2758
          date: 2023-11-04 08:50:55.0 +01:00
        }
        +__isInitialized__: true
         …2
      }
      +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2623 …}
      +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2645 …}
      +slug: "Fuckn-UAE-government"
      +title: "Fuckn UAE government"
      +url: "https://lemmy.zip/pictrs/image/c3c30dc2-5b4f-4220-a540-2c32f137c16f.webp"
      +body: null
      +type: "link"
      +lang: "en"
      +isOc: false
      +hasEmbed: true
      +commentCount: 104
      +favouriteCount: 670
      +score: 0
      +isAdult: false
      +sticky: false
      +lastActive: DateTime @1701141722 {#2599
        date: 2023-11-28 04:22:02.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +adaAmount: 0
      +tags: null
      +mentions: null
      +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2644 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2642 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2639 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2673 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2669 …}
      +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2686 …}
      +children: []
      -id: 15686
      -titleTs: "'fuckn':1 'govern':3 'uae':2"
      -bodyTs: null
      +cross: false
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +ranking: 1700795332
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://lemmy.zip/post/5964041"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700708932 {#2596
        date: 2023-11-23 04:08:52.0 +01:00
      }
      +__isInitialized__: true
       …2
    }
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2391 …2}
    +image: null
    +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2033 …}
    +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2021 …}
    +body: "They generally don’t. All the possible benefits are very abstract and very long term. If you can get people to give a fuck its because of in your face humanity and decency not such abstractions."
    +lang: "en"
    +isAdult: false
    +favouriteCount: 0
    +score: 0
    +lastActive: DateTime @1700956142 {#2382
      date: 2023-11-26 00:49:02.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +tags: null
    +mentions: [
      "@balderdash9@lemmy.zip"
      "@yagurlreese@lemmy.world"
      "@Kusimulkku@lemm.ee"
      "@michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
    ]
    +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2029 …}
    +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2020 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2027 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2031 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1909 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1907 …}
    -id: 164332
    -bodyTs: "'abstract':11,36 'benefit':8 'decenc':33 'face':30 'fuck':24 'general':2 'get':19 'give':22 'human':31 'long':14 'peopl':20 'possibl':7 'term':15"
    +ranking: 0
    +commentCount: 0
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemmy.world/comment/5585699"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700956142 {#1363
      date: 2023-11-26 00:49:02.0 +01:00
    }
  }
  "showNested" => false
  "dateAsUrl" => true
  "showMagazineName" => true
  "showEntryTitle" => true
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\EntryCommentComponent {#1347
  +comment: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2064
    +user: App\Entity\User {#261
      +avatar: null
      +cover: null
      +email: "michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
      +username: "@michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
      +roles: []
      +followersCount: 0
      +homepage: "front"
      +about: null
      +lastActive: DateTime @1719565078 {#269
        date: 2024-06-28 10:57:58.0 +02:00
      }
      +markedForDeletionAt: null
      +fields: null
      +oauthGithubId: null
      +oauthGoogleId: null
      +oauthFacebookId: null
      +oauthKeycloakId: null
      +hideAdult: true
      +showSubscribedUsers: true
      +showSubscribedMagazines: true
      +showSubscribedDomains: true
      +preferredLanguages: []
      +featuredMagazines: null
      +showProfileSubscriptions: false
      +showProfileFollowings: true
      +markNewComments: false
      +notifyOnNewEntry: false
      +notifyOnNewEntryReply: true
      +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: true
      +notifyOnNewPost: false
      +notifyOnNewPostReply: true
      +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: true
      +addMentionsEntries: false
      +addMentionsPosts: true
      +isBanned: false
      +isVerified: false
      +isDeleted: false
      +isBot: false
      +spamProtection: true
      +customCss: null
      +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
      +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#248 …}
      +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#244 …}
      +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#233 …}
      +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#191 …}
      +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#163 …}
      +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#136 …}
      +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#106 …}
      +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#79 …}
      +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#94 …}
      +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1793 …}
      +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1847 …}
      +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2478 …}
      +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1871 …}
      +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1605 …}
      +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1770 …}
      +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1844 …}
      +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1827 …}
      +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2415 …}
      +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1794 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2421 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1931 …}
      +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2401 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1885 …}
      +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1951 …}
      +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1886 …}
      +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1924 …}
      -id: 63226
      -password: "$2y$13$2sAZfN5Hpi2Nzs.wM6/Qa.K7Luw8j7/whTdYRKghYZdwNdole4.nu"
      -totpSecret: null
      -totpBackupCodes: []
      -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1896 …}
      +apId: "michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
      +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.world/u/michaelmrose"
      +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.world/u/michaelmrose"
      +apFollowersUrl: null
      +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.world/inbox"
      +apDomain: "lemmy.world"
      +apPreferredUsername: "michaelmrose"
      +apDiscoverable: true
      +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
      +privateKey: null
      +publicKey: null
      +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1705515156 {#272
        date: 2024-01-17 19:12:36.0 +01:00
      }
      +apDeletedAt: null
      +apTimeoutAt: null
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697782301 {#275
        date: 2023-10-20 08:11:41.0 +02:00
      }
    }
    +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1405
      +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2598 …}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2391
        +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2759 …}
        +name: "memes@lemmy.world"
        +title: "memes"
        +description: """
          Community rules\n
          ---------------\n
          \n
          1. Be civilNo trolling, bigotry or other insulting / annoying behaviour\n
          \n
          2. No politicsThis is non-politics community. For political memes please go to [!politicalmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/politicalmemes)\n
          \n
          3. No recent repostsCheck for reposts when posting a meme, you can only repost after 1 month\n
          \n
          4. No botsNo bots without the express approval of the mods or the admins\n
          \n
          5. No Spam/AdsNo advertisements or spam. This is an instance rule and the only way to live.\n
          \n
          \n
          \n
          Sister communities\n
          ------------------\n
          \n
          - [!tenforward@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward) : Star Trek memes, chat and shitposts\n
          - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
          - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
          - [!comicstrips@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips) : for those who love comic stories.
          """
        +rules: null
        +subscriptionsCount: 1
        +entryCount: 1112
        +entryCommentCount: 22597
        +postCount: 0
        +postCommentCount: 0
        +isAdult: false
        +customCss: null
        +lastActive: DateTime @1729581796 {#2756
          date: 2024-10-22 09:23:16.0 +02:00
        }
        +markedForDeletionAt: null
        +tags: null
        +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2760 …}
        +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2762 …}
        +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2764 …}
        +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2766 …}
        +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2768 …}
        +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2770 …}
        +bans: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2776 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2784 …}
        +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2797 …}
        +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2807 …}
        +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2789 …}
        +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2813 …}
        -id: 78
        +apId: "memes@lemmy.world"
        +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.world/c/memes"
        +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.world/c/memes"
        +apFollowersUrl: "https://lemmy.world/c/memes/followers"
        +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.world/inbox"
        +apDomain: "lemmy.world"
        +apPreferredUsername: "memes"
        +apDiscoverable: true
        +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
        +privateKey: null
        +publicKey: null
        +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1728743545 {#2757
          date: 2024-10-12 16:32:25.0 +02:00
        }
        +apDeletedAt: null
        +apTimeoutAt: null
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699084255 {#2758
          date: 2023-11-04 08:50:55.0 +01:00
        }
        +__isInitialized__: true
         …2
      }
      +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2623 …}
      +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2645 …}
      +slug: "Fuckn-UAE-government"
      +title: "Fuckn UAE government"
      +url: "https://lemmy.zip/pictrs/image/c3c30dc2-5b4f-4220-a540-2c32f137c16f.webp"
      +body: null
      +type: "link"
      +lang: "en"
      +isOc: false
      +hasEmbed: true
      +commentCount: 104
      +favouriteCount: 670
      +score: 0
      +isAdult: false
      +sticky: false
      +lastActive: DateTime @1701141722 {#2599
        date: 2023-11-28 04:22:02.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +adaAmount: 0
      +tags: null
      +mentions: null
      +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2644 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2642 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2639 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2673 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2669 …}
      +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2686 …}
      +children: []
      -id: 15686
      -titleTs: "'fuckn':1 'govern':3 'uae':2"
      -bodyTs: null
      +cross: false
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +ranking: 1700795332
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://lemmy.zip/post/5964041"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700708932 {#2596
        date: 2023-11-23 04:08:52.0 +01:00
      }
      +__isInitialized__: true
       …2
    }
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2391 …2}
    +image: null
    +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2033 …}
    +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2021 …}
    +body: "They generally don’t. All the possible benefits are very abstract and very long term. If you can get people to give a fuck its because of in your face humanity and decency not such abstractions."
    +lang: "en"
    +isAdult: false
    +favouriteCount: 0
    +score: 0
    +lastActive: DateTime @1700956142 {#2382
      date: 2023-11-26 00:49:02.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +tags: null
    +mentions: [
      "@balderdash9@lemmy.zip"
      "@yagurlreese@lemmy.world"
      "@Kusimulkku@lemm.ee"
      "@michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
    ]
    +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2029 …}
    +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2020 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2027 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2031 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1909 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1907 …}
    -id: 164332
    -bodyTs: "'abstract':11,36 'benefit':8 'decenc':33 'face':30 'fuck':24 'general':2 'get':19 'give':22 'human':31 'long':14 'peopl':20 'possibl':7 'term':15"
    +ranking: 0
    +commentCount: 0
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemmy.world/comment/5585699"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700956142 {#1363
      date: 2023-11-26 00:49:02.0 +01:00
    }
  }
  +showMagazineName: true
  +showEntryTitle: true
  +showNested: false
  +level: 1
  +canSeeTrash: false
  +dateAsUrl: true
  -requestStack: Symfony\Component\HttpFoundation\RequestStack {#1328 …}
  -authorizationChecker: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\AuthorizationChecker {#931 …}
}
user_inline App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent 14.0 MiB 0.36 ms
Input props
[
  "user" => App\Entity\User {#261
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
    +username: "@michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1719565078 {#269
      date: 2024-06-28 10:57:58.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: false
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: true
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: true
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: true
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: true
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
    +isVerified: false
    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#248 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#244 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#233 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#191 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#163 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#136 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#106 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#79 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#94 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1793 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1847 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2478 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1871 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1605 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1770 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1844 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1827 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2415 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1794 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2421 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1931 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2401 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1885 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1951 …}
    +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1886 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1924 …}
    -id: 63226
    -password: "$2y$13$2sAZfN5Hpi2Nzs.wM6/Qa.K7Luw8j7/whTdYRKghYZdwNdole4.nu"
    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1896 …}
    +apId: "michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
    +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.world/u/michaelmrose"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.world/u/michaelmrose"
    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.world/inbox"
    +apDomain: "lemmy.world"
    +apPreferredUsername: "michaelmrose"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1705515156 {#272
      date: 2024-01-17 19:12:36.0 +01:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697782301 {#275
      date: 2023-10-20 08:11:41.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  "showAvatar" => false
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent {#2699
  +user: App\Entity\User {#261
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
    +username: "@michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1719565078 {#269
      date: 2024-06-28 10:57:58.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: false
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: true
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: true
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: true
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: true
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
    +isVerified: false
    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#248 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#244 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#233 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#191 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#163 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#136 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#106 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#79 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#94 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1793 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1847 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2478 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1871 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1605 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1770 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1844 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1827 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2415 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1794 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2421 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1931 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2401 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1885 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1951 …}
    +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1886 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1924 …}
    -id: 63226
    -password: "$2y$13$2sAZfN5Hpi2Nzs.wM6/Qa.K7Luw8j7/whTdYRKghYZdwNdole4.nu"
    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1896 …}
    +apId: "michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
    +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.world/u/michaelmrose"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.world/u/michaelmrose"
    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.world/inbox"
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    +apPreferredUsername: "michaelmrose"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1705515156 {#272
      date: 2024-01-17 19:12:36.0 +01:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
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    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697782301 {#275
      date: 2023-10-20 08:11:41.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  +showAvatar: false
}
date App\Twig\Components\DateComponent 14.0 MiB 0.41 ms
Input props
[
  "date" => DateTimeImmutable @1700956142 {#1363
    date: 2023-11-26 00:49:02.0 +01:00
  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateComponent {#2837
  +date: DateTimeImmutable @1700956142 {#1363
    date: 2023-11-26 00:49:02.0 +01:00
  }
}
date_edited App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent 14.0 MiB 0.15 ms
Input props
[
  "createdAt" => DateTimeImmutable @1700956142 {#1363
    date: 2023-11-26 00:49:02.0 +01:00
  }
  "editedAt" => null
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent {#2901
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700956142 {#1363
    date: 2023-11-26 00:49:02.0 +01:00
  }
  +editedAt: null
}
magazine_inline App\Twig\Components\MagazineInlineComponent 14.0 MiB 0.18 ms
Input props
[
  "magazine" => Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2391
    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2759 …}
    +name: "memes@lemmy.world"
    +title: "memes"
    +description: """
      Community rules\n
      ---------------\n
      \n
      1. Be civilNo trolling, bigotry or other insulting / annoying behaviour\n
      \n
      2. No politicsThis is non-politics community. For political memes please go to [!politicalmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/politicalmemes)\n
      \n
      3. No recent repostsCheck for reposts when posting a meme, you can only repost after 1 month\n
      \n
      4. No botsNo bots without the express approval of the mods or the admins\n
      \n
      5. No Spam/AdsNo advertisements or spam. This is an instance rule and the only way to live.\n
      \n
      \n
      \n
      Sister communities\n
      ------------------\n
      \n
      - [!tenforward@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward) : Star Trek memes, chat and shitposts\n
      - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
      - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
      - [!comicstrips@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips) : for those who love comic stories.
      """
    +rules: null
    +subscriptionsCount: 1
    +entryCount: 1112
    +entryCommentCount: 22597
    +postCount: 0
    +postCommentCount: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +customCss: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1729581796 {#2756
      date: 2024-10-22 09:23:16.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +tags: null
    +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2760 …}
    +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2762 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2764 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2766 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2768 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2770 …}
    +bans: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2776 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2784 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2797 …}
    +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2807 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2789 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2813 …}
    -id: 78
    +apId: "memes@lemmy.world"
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    +apPreferredUsername: "memes"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
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      date: 2024-10-12 16:32:25.0 +02:00
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    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699084255 {#2758
      date: 2023-11-04 08:50:55.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\MagazineInlineComponent {#2966
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2391
    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2759 …}
    +name: "memes@lemmy.world"
    +title: "memes"
    +description: """
      Community rules\n
      ---------------\n
      \n
      1. Be civilNo trolling, bigotry or other insulting / annoying behaviour\n
      \n
      2. No politicsThis is non-politics community. For political memes please go to [!politicalmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/politicalmemes)\n
      \n
      3. No recent repostsCheck for reposts when posting a meme, you can only repost after 1 month\n
      \n
      4. No botsNo bots without the express approval of the mods or the admins\n
      \n
      5. No Spam/AdsNo advertisements or spam. This is an instance rule and the only way to live.\n
      \n
      \n
      \n
      Sister communities\n
      ------------------\n
      \n
      - [!tenforward@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward) : Star Trek memes, chat and shitposts\n
      - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
      - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
      - [!comicstrips@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips) : for those who love comic stories.
      """
    +rules: null
    +subscriptionsCount: 1
    +entryCount: 1112
    +entryCommentCount: 22597
    +postCount: 0
    +postCommentCount: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +customCss: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1729581796 {#2756
      date: 2024-10-22 09:23:16.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +tags: null
    +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2760 …}
    +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2762 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2764 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2766 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2768 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2770 …}
    +bans: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2776 …}
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    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2789 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2813 …}
    -id: 78
    +apId: "memes@lemmy.world"
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    +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.world/c/memes"
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    +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.world/inbox"
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    +apPreferredUsername: "memes"
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    +privateKey: null
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      date: 2024-10-12 16:32:25.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
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    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699084255 {#2758
      date: 2023-11-04 08:50:55.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +showTitle: true
  +fullName: false
  +stretchedLink: false
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}
entry_inline App\Twig\Components\EntryInlineComponent 14.0 MiB 0.26 ms
Input props
[
  "entry" => Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1405
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2598 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2391
      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2759 …}
      +name: "memes@lemmy.world"
      +title: "memes"
      +description: """
        Community rules\n
        ---------------\n
        \n
        1. Be civilNo trolling, bigotry or other insulting / annoying behaviour\n
        \n
        2. No politicsThis is non-politics community. For political memes please go to [!politicalmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/politicalmemes)\n
        \n
        3. No recent repostsCheck for reposts when posting a meme, you can only repost after 1 month\n
        \n
        4. No botsNo bots without the express approval of the mods or the admins\n
        \n
        5. No Spam/AdsNo advertisements or spam. This is an instance rule and the only way to live.\n
        \n
        \n
        \n
        Sister communities\n
        ------------------\n
        \n
        - [!tenforward@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward) : Star Trek memes, chat and shitposts\n
        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
        - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
        - [!comicstrips@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips) : for those who love comic stories.
        """
      +rules: null
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      +entryCommentCount: 22597
      +postCount: 0
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        date: 2024-10-22 09:23:16.0 +02:00
      }
      +markedForDeletionAt: null
      +tags: null
      +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2760 …}
      +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2762 …}
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      +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2766 …}
      +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2768 …}
      +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2770 …}
      +bans: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2776 …}
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      +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2797 …}
      +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2807 …}
      +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2789 …}
      +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2813 …}
      -id: 78
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      +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.world/c/memes"
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      +apFollowersUrl: "https://lemmy.world/c/memes/followers"
      +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.world/inbox"
      +apDomain: "lemmy.world"
      +apPreferredUsername: "memes"
      +apDiscoverable: true
      +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
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      +publicKey: null
      +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1728743545 {#2757
        date: 2024-10-12 16:32:25.0 +02:00
      }
      +apDeletedAt: null
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      +visibility: "visible             "
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699084255 {#2758
        date: 2023-11-04 08:50:55.0 +01:00
      }
      +__isInitialized__: true
       …2
    }
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2623 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2645 …}
    +slug: "Fuckn-UAE-government"
    +title: "Fuckn UAE government"
    +url: "https://lemmy.zip/pictrs/image/c3c30dc2-5b4f-4220-a540-2c32f137c16f.webp"
    +body: null
    +type: "link"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: true
    +commentCount: 104
    +favouriteCount: 670
    +score: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +sticky: false
    +lastActive: DateTime @1701141722 {#2599
      date: 2023-11-28 04:22:02.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2644 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2642 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2639 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2673 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2669 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2686 …}
    +children: []
    -id: 15686
    -titleTs: "'fuckn':1 'govern':3 'uae':2"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1700795332
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemmy.zip/post/5964041"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700708932 {#2596
      date: 2023-11-23 04:08:52.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\EntryInlineComponent {#3029
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1405
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2598 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2391
      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2759 …}
      +name: "memes@lemmy.world"
      +title: "memes"
      +description: """
        Community rules\n
        ---------------\n
        \n
        1. Be civilNo trolling, bigotry or other insulting / annoying behaviour\n
        \n
        2. No politicsThis is non-politics community. For political memes please go to [!politicalmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/politicalmemes)\n
        \n
        3. No recent repostsCheck for reposts when posting a meme, you can only repost after 1 month\n
        \n
        4. No botsNo bots without the express approval of the mods or the admins\n
        \n
        5. No Spam/AdsNo advertisements or spam. This is an instance rule and the only way to live.\n
        \n
        \n
        \n
        Sister communities\n
        ------------------\n
        \n
        - [!tenforward@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward) : Star Trek memes, chat and shitposts\n
        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
        - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
        - [!comicstrips@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips) : for those who love comic stories.
        """
      +rules: null
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      +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2760 …}
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      +__isInitialized__: true
       …2
    }
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2623 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2645 …}
    +slug: "Fuckn-UAE-government"
    +title: "Fuckn UAE government"
    +url: "https://lemmy.zip/pictrs/image/c3c30dc2-5b4f-4220-a540-2c32f137c16f.webp"
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    +ip: null
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    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2644 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2642 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2639 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2673 …}
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    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2686 …}
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    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
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}
user_avatar App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent 14.0 MiB 0.22 ms
Input props
[
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    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
    +username: "@michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
    +roles: []
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    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1719565078 {#269
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    +markedForDeletionAt: null
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    +featuredMagazines: null
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    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: true
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    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#248 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#244 …}
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  "width" => 40
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  "asLink" => true
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent {#3092
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    +markedForDeletionAt: null
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  +asLink: true
}
vote App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent 14.0 MiB 0.71 ms
Input props
[
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    +user: App\Entity\User {#261
      +avatar: null
      +cover: null
      +email: "michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
      +username: "@michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
      +roles: []
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        date: 2024-06-28 10:57:58.0 +02:00
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      +markedForDeletionAt: null
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      +isBot: false
      +spamProtection: true
      +customCss: null
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      +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#244 …}
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      +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#163 …}
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      +visibility: "visible             "
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697782301 {#275
        date: 2023-10-20 08:11:41.0 +02:00
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    }
    +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1405
      +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2598 …}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2391
        +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2759 …}
        +name: "memes@lemmy.world"
        +title: "memes"
        +description: """
          Community rules\n
          ---------------\n
          \n
          1. Be civilNo trolling, bigotry or other insulting / annoying behaviour\n
          \n
          2. No politicsThis is non-politics community. For political memes please go to [!politicalmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/politicalmemes)\n
          \n
          3. No recent repostsCheck for reposts when posting a meme, you can only repost after 1 month\n
          \n
          4. No botsNo bots without the express approval of the mods or the admins\n
          \n
          5. No Spam/AdsNo advertisements or spam. This is an instance rule and the only way to live.\n
          \n
          \n
          \n
          Sister communities\n
          ------------------\n
          \n
          - [!tenforward@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward) : Star Trek memes, chat and shitposts\n
          - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
          - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
          - [!comicstrips@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips) : for those who love comic stories.
          """
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        +markedForDeletionAt: null
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      }
      +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2623 …}
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      +title: "Fuckn UAE government"
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       …2
    }
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2391 …2}
    +image: null
    +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2033 …}
    +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2021 …}
    +body: "They generally don’t. All the possible benefits are very abstract and very long term. If you can get people to give a fuck its because of in your face humanity and decency not such abstractions."
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      "@yagurlreese@lemmy.world"
      "@Kusimulkku@lemm.ee"
      "@michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
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    +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2029 …}
    +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2020 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2027 …}
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]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent {#3185
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      +spamProtection: true
      +customCss: null
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      +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#248 …}
      +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#244 …}
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        +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2759 …}
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          ---------------\n
          \n
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          \n
          \n
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          ------------------\n
          \n
          - [!tenforward@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward) : Star Trek memes, chat and shitposts\n
          - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
          - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
          - [!comicstrips@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips) : for those who love comic stories.
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        +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2760 …}
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      +ip: null
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      +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2644 …}
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    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2391 …2}
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      "@michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
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    +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2029 …}
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  +formDest: "entry_comment"
  +showDownvote: true
  -cache: Symfony\Component\Cache\Adapter\TraceableTagAwareAdapter {#600 …}
}
boost App\Twig\Components\BoostComponent 14.0 MiB 1.38 ms
Input props
[
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          \n
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          \n
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          \n
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          \n
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          \n
          \n
          \n
          Sister communities\n
          ------------------\n
          \n
          - [!tenforward@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward) : Star Trek memes, chat and shitposts\n
          - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
          - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
          - [!comicstrips@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips) : for those who love comic stories.
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      +ip: null
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      +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2644 …}
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      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2669 …}
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        date: 2023-11-23 04:08:52.0 +01:00
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    }
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2391 …2}
    +image: null
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    +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2021 …}
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      "@yagurlreese@lemmy.world"
      "@Kusimulkku@lemm.ee"
      "@michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
    ]
    +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2029 …}
    +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2020 …}
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]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\BoostComponent {#3252
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          - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
          - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
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entry_comment App\Twig\Components\EntryCommentComponent 14.0 MiB 5.31 ms
Input props
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          \n
          \n
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          ------------------\n
          \n
          - [!tenforward@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward) : Star Trek memes, chat and shitposts\n
          - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
          - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
          - [!comicstrips@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips) : for those who love comic stories.
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]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\EntryCommentComponent {#3559
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      +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#94 …}
      +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1793 …}
      +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1847 …}
      +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2478 …}
      +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1871 …}
      +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1605 …}
      +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1770 …}
      +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1844 …}
      +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1827 …}
      +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2415 …}
      +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1794 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2421 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1931 …}
      +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2401 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1885 …}
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      +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1886 …}
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      -totpSecret: null
      -totpBackupCodes: []
      -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1896 …}
      +apId: "michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
      +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.world/u/michaelmrose"
      +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.world/u/michaelmrose"
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      +apDiscoverable: true
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      +privateKey: null
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        date: 2024-01-17 19:12:36.0 +01:00
      }
      +apDeletedAt: null
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      +visibility: "visible             "
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697782301 {#275
        date: 2023-10-20 08:11:41.0 +02:00
      }
    }
    +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1405
      +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2598 …}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2391
        +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2759 …}
        +name: "memes@lemmy.world"
        +title: "memes"
        +description: """
          Community rules\n
          ---------------\n
          \n
          1. Be civilNo trolling, bigotry or other insulting / annoying behaviour\n
          \n
          2. No politicsThis is non-politics community. For political memes please go to [!politicalmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/politicalmemes)\n
          \n
          3. No recent repostsCheck for reposts when posting a meme, you can only repost after 1 month\n
          \n
          4. No botsNo bots without the express approval of the mods or the admins\n
          \n
          5. No Spam/AdsNo advertisements or spam. This is an instance rule and the only way to live.\n
          \n
          \n
          \n
          Sister communities\n
          ------------------\n
          \n
          - [!tenforward@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward) : Star Trek memes, chat and shitposts\n
          - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
          - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
          - [!comicstrips@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips) : for those who love comic stories.
          """
        +rules: null
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        +entryCommentCount: 22597
        +postCount: 0
        +postCommentCount: 0
        +isAdult: false
        +customCss: null
        +lastActive: DateTime @1729581796 {#2756
          date: 2024-10-22 09:23:16.0 +02:00
        }
        +markedForDeletionAt: null
        +tags: null
        +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2760 …}
        +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2762 …}
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        +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2766 …}
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        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2784 …}
        +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2797 …}
        +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2807 …}
        +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2789 …}
        +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2813 …}
        -id: 78
        +apId: "memes@lemmy.world"
        +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.world/c/memes"
        +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.world/c/memes"
        +apFollowersUrl: "https://lemmy.world/c/memes/followers"
        +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.world/inbox"
        +apDomain: "lemmy.world"
        +apPreferredUsername: "memes"
        +apDiscoverable: true
        +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
        +privateKey: null
        +publicKey: null
        +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1728743545 {#2757
          date: 2024-10-12 16:32:25.0 +02:00
        }
        +apDeletedAt: null
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699084255 {#2758
          date: 2023-11-04 08:50:55.0 +01:00
        }
        +__isInitialized__: true
         …2
      }
      +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2623 …}
      +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2645 …}
      +slug: "Fuckn-UAE-government"
      +title: "Fuckn UAE government"
      +url: "https://lemmy.zip/pictrs/image/c3c30dc2-5b4f-4220-a540-2c32f137c16f.webp"
      +body: null
      +type: "link"
      +lang: "en"
      +isOc: false
      +hasEmbed: true
      +commentCount: 104
      +favouriteCount: 670
      +score: 0
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      +sticky: false
      +lastActive: DateTime @1701141722 {#2599
        date: 2023-11-28 04:22:02.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +adaAmount: 0
      +tags: null
      +mentions: null
      +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2644 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2642 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2639 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2673 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2669 …}
      +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2686 …}
      +children: []
      -id: 15686
      -titleTs: "'fuckn':1 'govern':3 'uae':2"
      -bodyTs: null
      +cross: false
      +upVotes: 0
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      +ranking: 1700795332
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      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700708932 {#2596
        date: 2023-11-23 04:08:52.0 +01:00
      }
      +__isInitialized__: true
       …2
    }
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2391 …2}
    +image: null
    +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2324 …}
    +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2021 …}
    +body: "As a Finn he doesn’t personally benefit from U.S. citizens having affordable health care but the weapons they develop may be used to protect HIS homeland. Like everyone else he has personal interests."
    +lang: "en"
    +isAdult: false
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    +ip: null
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    +mentions: [
      "@balderdash9@lemmy.zip"
      "@yagurlreese@lemmy.world"
      "@Kusimulkku@lemm.ee"
    ]
    +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2143 …}
    +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2344 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2073 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2135 …}
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    -id: 159798
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    +ranking: 0
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      date: 2023-11-24 21:17:47.0 +01:00
    }
  }
  +showMagazineName: true
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  +showNested: false
  +level: 1
  +canSeeTrash: false
  +dateAsUrl: true
  -requestStack: Symfony\Component\HttpFoundation\RequestStack {#1328 …}
  -authorizationChecker: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\AuthorizationChecker {#931 …}
}
user_inline App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent 14.0 MiB 0.13 ms
Input props
[
  "user" => App\Entity\User {#261
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
    +username: "@michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1719565078 {#269
      date: 2024-06-28 10:57:58.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
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    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
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    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: false
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: true
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: true
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: true
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: true
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
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    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#248 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#244 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#233 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#191 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#163 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#136 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#106 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#79 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#94 …}
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    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2478 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1871 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1605 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1770 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1844 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1827 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2415 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1794 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2421 …}
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    +privateKey: null
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    +apDeletedAt: null
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      date: 2023-10-20 08:11:41.0 +02:00
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  "showAvatar" => false
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent {#3604
  +user: App\Entity\User {#261
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
    +username: "@michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1719565078 {#269
      date: 2024-06-28 10:57:58.0 +02:00
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    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
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    +hideAdult: true
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    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: false
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
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    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: true
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: true
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
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    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
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    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#248 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#244 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#233 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#191 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#163 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#136 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#106 …}
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    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2478 …}
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    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2415 …}
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    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2421 …}
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    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1896 …}
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date App\Twig\Components\DateComponent 14.0 MiB 0.12 ms
Input props
[
  "date" => DateTimeImmutable @1700857067 {#2378
    date: 2023-11-24 21:17:47.0 +01:00
  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateComponent {#3660
  +date: DateTimeImmutable @1700857067 {#2378
    date: 2023-11-24 21:17:47.0 +01:00
  }
}
date_edited App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent 14.0 MiB 0.08 ms
Input props
[
  "createdAt" => DateTimeImmutable @1700857067 {#2378
    date: 2023-11-24 21:17:47.0 +01:00
  }
  "editedAt" => null
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent {#3714
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700857067 {#2378
    date: 2023-11-24 21:17:47.0 +01:00
  }
  +editedAt: null
}
magazine_inline App\Twig\Components\MagazineInlineComponent 14.0 MiB 0.11 ms
Input props
[
  "magazine" => Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2391
    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2759 …}
    +name: "memes@lemmy.world"
    +title: "memes"
    +description: """
      Community rules\n
      ---------------\n
      \n
      1. Be civilNo trolling, bigotry or other insulting / annoying behaviour\n
      \n
      2. No politicsThis is non-politics community. For political memes please go to [!politicalmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/politicalmemes)\n
      \n
      3. No recent repostsCheck for reposts when posting a meme, you can only repost after 1 month\n
      \n
      4. No botsNo bots without the express approval of the mods or the admins\n
      \n
      5. No Spam/AdsNo advertisements or spam. This is an instance rule and the only way to live.\n
      \n
      \n
      \n
      Sister communities\n
      ------------------\n
      \n
      - [!tenforward@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward) : Star Trek memes, chat and shitposts\n
      - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
      - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
      - [!comicstrips@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips) : for those who love comic stories.
      """
    +rules: null
    +subscriptionsCount: 1
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    +entryCommentCount: 22597
    +postCount: 0
    +postCommentCount: 0
    +isAdult: false
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      date: 2024-10-22 09:23:16.0 +02:00
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    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +tags: null
    +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2760 …}
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    +apPreferredUsername: "memes"
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    +apDeletedAt: null
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699084255 {#2758
      date: 2023-11-04 08:50:55.0 +01:00
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     …2
  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\MagazineInlineComponent {#3768
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2391
    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2759 …}
    +name: "memes@lemmy.world"
    +title: "memes"
    +description: """
      Community rules\n
      ---------------\n
      \n
      1. Be civilNo trolling, bigotry or other insulting / annoying behaviour\n
      \n
      2. No politicsThis is non-politics community. For political memes please go to [!politicalmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/politicalmemes)\n
      \n
      3. No recent repostsCheck for reposts when posting a meme, you can only repost after 1 month\n
      \n
      4. No botsNo bots without the express approval of the mods or the admins\n
      \n
      5. No Spam/AdsNo advertisements or spam. This is an instance rule and the only way to live.\n
      \n
      \n
      \n
      Sister communities\n
      ------------------\n
      \n
      - [!tenforward@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward) : Star Trek memes, chat and shitposts\n
      - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
      - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
      - [!comicstrips@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips) : for those who love comic stories.
      """
    +rules: null
    +subscriptionsCount: 1
    +entryCount: 1112
    +entryCommentCount: 22597
    +postCount: 0
    +postCommentCount: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +customCss: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1729581796 {#2756
      date: 2024-10-22 09:23:16.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +tags: null
    +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2760 …}
    +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2762 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2764 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2766 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2768 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2770 …}
    +bans: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2776 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2784 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2797 …}
    +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2807 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2789 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2813 …}
    -id: 78
    +apId: "memes@lemmy.world"
    +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.world/c/memes"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.world/c/memes"
    +apFollowersUrl: "https://lemmy.world/c/memes/followers"
    +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.world/inbox"
    +apDomain: "lemmy.world"
    +apPreferredUsername: "memes"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1728743545 {#2757
      date: 2024-10-12 16:32:25.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699084255 {#2758
      date: 2023-11-04 08:50:55.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +showTitle: true
  +fullName: false
  +stretchedLink: false
  +showAvatar: false
}
entry_inline App\Twig\Components\EntryInlineComponent 14.0 MiB 0.16 ms
Input props
[
  "entry" => Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1405
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2598 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2391
      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2759 …}
      +name: "memes@lemmy.world"
      +title: "memes"
      +description: """
        Community rules\n
        ---------------\n
        \n
        1. Be civilNo trolling, bigotry or other insulting / annoying behaviour\n
        \n
        2. No politicsThis is non-politics community. For political memes please go to [!politicalmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/politicalmemes)\n
        \n
        3. No recent repostsCheck for reposts when posting a meme, you can only repost after 1 month\n
        \n
        4. No botsNo bots without the express approval of the mods or the admins\n
        \n
        5. No Spam/AdsNo advertisements or spam. This is an instance rule and the only way to live.\n
        \n
        \n
        \n
        Sister communities\n
        ------------------\n
        \n
        - [!tenforward@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward) : Star Trek memes, chat and shitposts\n
        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
        - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
        - [!comicstrips@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips) : for those who love comic stories.
        """
      +rules: null
      +subscriptionsCount: 1
      +entryCount: 1112
      +entryCommentCount: 22597
      +postCount: 0
      +postCommentCount: 0
      +isAdult: false
      +customCss: null
      +lastActive: DateTime @1729581796 {#2756
        date: 2024-10-22 09:23:16.0 +02:00
      }
      +markedForDeletionAt: null
      +tags: null
      +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2760 …}
      +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2762 …}
      +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2764 …}
      +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2766 …}
      +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2768 …}
      +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2770 …}
      +bans: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2776 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2784 …}
      +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2797 …}
      +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2807 …}
      +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2789 …}
      +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2813 …}
      -id: 78
      +apId: "memes@lemmy.world"
      +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.world/c/memes"
      +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.world/c/memes"
      +apFollowersUrl: "https://lemmy.world/c/memes/followers"
      +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.world/inbox"
      +apDomain: "lemmy.world"
      +apPreferredUsername: "memes"
      +apDiscoverable: true
      +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
      +privateKey: null
      +publicKey: null
      +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1728743545 {#2757
        date: 2024-10-12 16:32:25.0 +02:00
      }
      +apDeletedAt: null
      +apTimeoutAt: null
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699084255 {#2758
        date: 2023-11-04 08:50:55.0 +01:00
      }
      +__isInitialized__: true
       …2
    }
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2623 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2645 …}
    +slug: "Fuckn-UAE-government"
    +title: "Fuckn UAE government"
    +url: "https://lemmy.zip/pictrs/image/c3c30dc2-5b4f-4220-a540-2c32f137c16f.webp"
    +body: null
    +type: "link"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: true
    +commentCount: 104
    +favouriteCount: 670
    +score: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +sticky: false
    +lastActive: DateTime @1701141722 {#2599
      date: 2023-11-28 04:22:02.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2644 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2642 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2639 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2673 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2669 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2686 …}
    +children: []
    -id: 15686
    -titleTs: "'fuckn':1 'govern':3 'uae':2"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
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    +ranking: 1700795332
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemmy.zip/post/5964041"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700708932 {#2596
      date: 2023-11-23 04:08:52.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\EntryInlineComponent {#3823
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1405
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2598 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2391
      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2759 …}
      +name: "memes@lemmy.world"
      +title: "memes"
      +description: """
        Community rules\n
        ---------------\n
        \n
        1. Be civilNo trolling, bigotry or other insulting / annoying behaviour\n
        \n
        2. No politicsThis is non-politics community. For political memes please go to [!politicalmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/politicalmemes)\n
        \n
        3. No recent repostsCheck for reposts when posting a meme, you can only repost after 1 month\n
        \n
        4. No botsNo bots without the express approval of the mods or the admins\n
        \n
        5. No Spam/AdsNo advertisements or spam. This is an instance rule and the only way to live.\n
        \n
        \n
        \n
        Sister communities\n
        ------------------\n
        \n
        - [!tenforward@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward) : Star Trek memes, chat and shitposts\n
        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
        - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
        - [!comicstrips@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips) : for those who love comic stories.
        """
      +rules: null
      +subscriptionsCount: 1
      +entryCount: 1112
      +entryCommentCount: 22597
      +postCount: 0
      +postCommentCount: 0
      +isAdult: false
      +customCss: null
      +lastActive: DateTime @1729581796 {#2756
        date: 2024-10-22 09:23:16.0 +02:00
      }
      +markedForDeletionAt: null
      +tags: null
      +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2760 …}
      +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2762 …}
      +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2764 …}
      +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2766 …}
      +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2768 …}
      +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2770 …}
      +bans: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2776 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2784 …}
      +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2797 …}
      +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2807 …}
      +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2789 …}
      +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2813 …}
      -id: 78
      +apId: "memes@lemmy.world"
      +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.world/c/memes"
      +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.world/c/memes"
      +apFollowersUrl: "https://lemmy.world/c/memes/followers"
      +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.world/inbox"
      +apDomain: "lemmy.world"
      +apPreferredUsername: "memes"
      +apDiscoverable: true
      +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
      +privateKey: null
      +publicKey: null
      +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1728743545 {#2757
        date: 2024-10-12 16:32:25.0 +02:00
      }
      +apDeletedAt: null
      +apTimeoutAt: null
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699084255 {#2758
        date: 2023-11-04 08:50:55.0 +01:00
      }
      +__isInitialized__: true
       …2
    }
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2623 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2645 …}
    +slug: "Fuckn-UAE-government"
    +title: "Fuckn UAE government"
    +url: "https://lemmy.zip/pictrs/image/c3c30dc2-5b4f-4220-a540-2c32f137c16f.webp"
    +body: null
    +type: "link"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: true
    +commentCount: 104
    +favouriteCount: 670
    +score: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +sticky: false
    +lastActive: DateTime @1701141722 {#2599
      date: 2023-11-28 04:22:02.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2644 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2642 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2639 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2673 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2669 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2686 …}
    +children: []
    -id: 15686
    -titleTs: "'fuckn':1 'govern':3 'uae':2"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
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    +ranking: 1700795332
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemmy.zip/post/5964041"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700708932 {#2596
      date: 2023-11-23 04:08:52.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
}
user_avatar App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent 14.0 MiB 0.12 ms
Input props
[
  "user" => App\Entity\User {#261
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
    +username: "@michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1719565078 {#269
      date: 2024-06-28 10:57:58.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: false
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: true
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: true
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: true
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: true
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
    +isVerified: false
    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#248 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#244 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#233 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#191 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#163 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#136 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#106 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#79 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#94 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1793 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1847 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2478 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1871 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1605 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1770 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1844 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1827 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2415 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1794 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2421 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1931 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2401 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1885 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1951 …}
    +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1886 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1924 …}
    -id: 63226
    -password: "$2y$13$2sAZfN5Hpi2Nzs.wM6/Qa.K7Luw8j7/whTdYRKghYZdwNdole4.nu"
    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1896 …}
    +apId: "michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
    +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.world/u/michaelmrose"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.world/u/michaelmrose"
    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.world/inbox"
    +apDomain: "lemmy.world"
    +apPreferredUsername: "michaelmrose"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1705515156 {#272
      date: 2024-01-17 19:12:36.0 +01:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697782301 {#275
      date: 2023-10-20 08:11:41.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  "width" => 40
  "height" => 40
  "asLink" => true
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent {#3878
  +width: 40
  +height: 40
  +user: App\Entity\User {#261
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
    +username: "@michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1719565078 {#269
      date: 2024-06-28 10:57:58.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: false
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: true
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: true
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: true
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: true
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
    +isVerified: false
    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#248 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#244 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#233 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#191 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#163 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#136 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#106 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#79 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#94 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1793 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1847 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2478 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1871 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1605 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1770 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1844 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1827 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2415 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1794 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2421 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1931 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2401 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1885 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1951 …}
    +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1886 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1924 …}
    -id: 63226
    -password: "$2y$13$2sAZfN5Hpi2Nzs.wM6/Qa.K7Luw8j7/whTdYRKghYZdwNdole4.nu"
    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1896 …}
    +apId: "michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
    +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.world/u/michaelmrose"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.world/u/michaelmrose"
    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.world/inbox"
    +apDomain: "lemmy.world"
    +apPreferredUsername: "michaelmrose"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1705515156 {#272
      date: 2024-01-17 19:12:36.0 +01:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697782301 {#275
      date: 2023-10-20 08:11:41.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  +asLink: true
}
vote App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent 14.0 MiB 0.31 ms
Input props
[
  "subject" => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2164
    +user: App\Entity\User {#261
      +avatar: null
      +cover: null
      +email: "michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
      +username: "@michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
      +roles: []
      +followersCount: 0
      +homepage: "front"
      +about: null
      +lastActive: DateTime @1719565078 {#269
        date: 2024-06-28 10:57:58.0 +02:00
      }
      +markedForDeletionAt: null
      +fields: null
      +oauthGithubId: null
      +oauthGoogleId: null
      +oauthFacebookId: null
      +oauthKeycloakId: null
      +hideAdult: true
      +showSubscribedUsers: true
      +showSubscribedMagazines: true
      +showSubscribedDomains: true
      +preferredLanguages: []
      +featuredMagazines: null
      +showProfileSubscriptions: false
      +showProfileFollowings: true
      +markNewComments: false
      +notifyOnNewEntry: false
      +notifyOnNewEntryReply: true
      +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: true
      +notifyOnNewPost: false
      +notifyOnNewPostReply: true
      +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: true
      +addMentionsEntries: false
      +addMentionsPosts: true
      +isBanned: false
      +isVerified: false
      +isDeleted: false
      +isBot: false
      +spamProtection: true
      +customCss: null
      +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
      +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#248 …}
      +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#244 …}
      +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#233 …}
      +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#191 …}
      +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#163 …}
      +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#136 …}
      +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#106 …}
      +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#79 …}
      +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#94 …}
      +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1793 …}
      +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1847 …}
      +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2478 …}
      +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1871 …}
      +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1605 …}
      +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1770 …}
      +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1844 …}
      +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1827 …}
      +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2415 …}
      +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1794 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2421 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1931 …}
      +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2401 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1885 …}
      +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1951 …}
      +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1886 …}
      +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1924 …}
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      -password: "$2y$13$2sAZfN5Hpi2Nzs.wM6/Qa.K7Luw8j7/whTdYRKghYZdwNdole4.nu"
      -totpSecret: null
      -totpBackupCodes: []
      -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1896 …}
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      +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.world/u/michaelmrose"
      +apFollowersUrl: null
      +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.world/inbox"
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      +apPreferredUsername: "michaelmrose"
      +apDiscoverable: true
      +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
      +privateKey: null
      +publicKey: null
      +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1705515156 {#272
        date: 2024-01-17 19:12:36.0 +01:00
      }
      +apDeletedAt: null
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      +visibility: "visible             "
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697782301 {#275
        date: 2023-10-20 08:11:41.0 +02:00
      }
    }
    +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1405
      +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2598 …}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2391
        +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2759 …}
        +name: "memes@lemmy.world"
        +title: "memes"
        +description: """
          Community rules\n
          ---------------\n
          \n
          1. Be civilNo trolling, bigotry or other insulting / annoying behaviour\n
          \n
          2. No politicsThis is non-politics community. For political memes please go to [!politicalmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/politicalmemes)\n
          \n
          3. No recent repostsCheck for reposts when posting a meme, you can only repost after 1 month\n
          \n
          4. No botsNo bots without the express approval of the mods or the admins\n
          \n
          5. No Spam/AdsNo advertisements or spam. This is an instance rule and the only way to live.\n
          \n
          \n
          \n
          Sister communities\n
          ------------------\n
          \n
          - [!tenforward@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward) : Star Trek memes, chat and shitposts\n
          - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
          - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
          - [!comicstrips@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips) : for those who love comic stories.
          """
        +rules: null
        +subscriptionsCount: 1
        +entryCount: 1112
        +entryCommentCount: 22597
        +postCount: 0
        +postCommentCount: 0
        +isAdult: false
        +customCss: null
        +lastActive: DateTime @1729581796 {#2756
          date: 2024-10-22 09:23:16.0 +02:00
        }
        +markedForDeletionAt: null
        +tags: null
        +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2760 …}
        +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2762 …}
        +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2764 …}
        +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2766 …}
        +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2768 …}
        +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2770 …}
        +bans: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2776 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2784 …}
        +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2797 …}
        +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2807 …}
        +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2789 …}
        +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2813 …}
        -id: 78
        +apId: "memes@lemmy.world"
        +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.world/c/memes"
        +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.world/c/memes"
        +apFollowersUrl: "https://lemmy.world/c/memes/followers"
        +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.world/inbox"
        +apDomain: "lemmy.world"
        +apPreferredUsername: "memes"
        +apDiscoverable: true
        +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
        +privateKey: null
        +publicKey: null
        +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1728743545 {#2757
          date: 2024-10-12 16:32:25.0 +02:00
        }
        +apDeletedAt: null
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699084255 {#2758
          date: 2023-11-04 08:50:55.0 +01:00
        }
        +__isInitialized__: true
         …2
      }
      +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2623 …}
      +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2645 …}
      +slug: "Fuckn-UAE-government"
      +title: "Fuckn UAE government"
      +url: "https://lemmy.zip/pictrs/image/c3c30dc2-5b4f-4220-a540-2c32f137c16f.webp"
      +body: null
      +type: "link"
      +lang: "en"
      +isOc: false
      +hasEmbed: true
      +commentCount: 104
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      +score: 0
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      +sticky: false
      +lastActive: DateTime @1701141722 {#2599
        date: 2023-11-28 04:22:02.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +adaAmount: 0
      +tags: null
      +mentions: null
      +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2644 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2642 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2639 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2673 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2669 …}
      +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2686 …}
      +children: []
      -id: 15686
      -titleTs: "'fuckn':1 'govern':3 'uae':2"
      -bodyTs: null
      +cross: false
      +upVotes: 0
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      +ranking: 1700795332
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      +apId: "https://lemmy.zip/post/5964041"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700708932 {#2596
        date: 2023-11-23 04:08:52.0 +01:00
      }
      +__isInitialized__: true
       …2
    }
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2391 …2}
    +image: null
    +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2324 …}
    +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2021 …}
    +body: "As a Finn he doesn’t personally benefit from U.S. citizens having affordable health care but the weapons they develop may be used to protect HIS homeland. Like everyone else he has personal interests."
    +lang: "en"
    +isAdult: false
    +favouriteCount: 3
    +score: 0
    +lastActive: DateTime @1700857067 {#2088
      date: 2023-11-24 21:17:47.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +tags: null
    +mentions: [
      "@balderdash9@lemmy.zip"
      "@yagurlreese@lemmy.world"
      "@Kusimulkku@lemm.ee"
    ]
    +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2143 …}
    +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2344 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2073 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2135 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2351 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2341 …}
    -id: 159798
    -bodyTs: "'afford':13 'benefit':8 'care':15 'citizen':11 'develop':20 'doesn':5 'els':30 'everyon':29 'finn':3 'health':14 'homeland':27 'interest':34 'like':28 'may':21 'person':7,33 'protect':25 'u.s':10 'use':23 'weapon':18"
    +ranking: 0
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    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemmy.world/comment/5557550"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700857067 {#2378
      date: 2023-11-24 21:17:47.0 +01:00
    }
  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent {#3947
  +subject: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2164
    +user: App\Entity\User {#261
      +avatar: null
      +cover: null
      +email: "michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
      +username: "@michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
      +roles: []
      +followersCount: 0
      +homepage: "front"
      +about: null
      +lastActive: DateTime @1719565078 {#269
        date: 2024-06-28 10:57:58.0 +02:00
      }
      +markedForDeletionAt: null
      +fields: null
      +oauthGithubId: null
      +oauthGoogleId: null
      +oauthFacebookId: null
      +oauthKeycloakId: null
      +hideAdult: true
      +showSubscribedUsers: true
      +showSubscribedMagazines: true
      +showSubscribedDomains: true
      +preferredLanguages: []
      +featuredMagazines: null
      +showProfileSubscriptions: false
      +showProfileFollowings: true
      +markNewComments: false
      +notifyOnNewEntry: false
      +notifyOnNewEntryReply: true
      +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: true
      +notifyOnNewPost: false
      +notifyOnNewPostReply: true
      +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: true
      +addMentionsEntries: false
      +addMentionsPosts: true
      +isBanned: false
      +isVerified: false
      +isDeleted: false
      +isBot: false
      +spamProtection: true
      +customCss: null
      +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
      +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#248 …}
      +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#244 …}
      +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#233 …}
      +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#191 …}
      +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#163 …}
      +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#136 …}
      +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#106 …}
      +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#79 …}
      +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#94 …}
      +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1793 …}
      +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1847 …}
      +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2478 …}
      +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1871 …}
      +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1605 …}
      +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1770 …}
      +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1844 …}
      +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1827 …}
      +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2415 …}
      +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1794 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2421 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1931 …}
      +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2401 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1885 …}
      +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1951 …}
      +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1886 …}
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      -totpSecret: null
      -totpBackupCodes: []
      -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1896 …}
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      +apFollowersUrl: null
      +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.world/inbox"
      +apDomain: "lemmy.world"
      +apPreferredUsername: "michaelmrose"
      +apDiscoverable: true
      +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
      +privateKey: null
      +publicKey: null
      +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1705515156 {#272
        date: 2024-01-17 19:12:36.0 +01:00
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      +apDeletedAt: null
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      +visibility: "visible             "
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697782301 {#275
        date: 2023-10-20 08:11:41.0 +02:00
      }
    }
    +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1405
      +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2598 …}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2391
        +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2759 …}
        +name: "memes@lemmy.world"
        +title: "memes"
        +description: """
          Community rules\n
          ---------------\n
          \n
          1. Be civilNo trolling, bigotry or other insulting / annoying behaviour\n
          \n
          2. No politicsThis is non-politics community. For political memes please go to [!politicalmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/politicalmemes)\n
          \n
          3. No recent repostsCheck for reposts when posting a meme, you can only repost after 1 month\n
          \n
          4. No botsNo bots without the express approval of the mods or the admins\n
          \n
          5. No Spam/AdsNo advertisements or spam. This is an instance rule and the only way to live.\n
          \n
          \n
          \n
          Sister communities\n
          ------------------\n
          \n
          - [!tenforward@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward) : Star Trek memes, chat and shitposts\n
          - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
          - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
          - [!comicstrips@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips) : for those who love comic stories.
          """
        +rules: null
        +subscriptionsCount: 1
        +entryCount: 1112
        +entryCommentCount: 22597
        +postCount: 0
        +postCommentCount: 0
        +isAdult: false
        +customCss: null
        +lastActive: DateTime @1729581796 {#2756
          date: 2024-10-22 09:23:16.0 +02:00
        }
        +markedForDeletionAt: null
        +tags: null
        +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2760 …}
        +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2762 …}
        +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2764 …}
        +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2766 …}
        +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2768 …}
        +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2770 …}
        +bans: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2776 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2784 …}
        +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2797 …}
        +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2807 …}
        +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2789 …}
        +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2813 …}
        -id: 78
        +apId: "memes@lemmy.world"
        +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.world/c/memes"
        +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.world/c/memes"
        +apFollowersUrl: "https://lemmy.world/c/memes/followers"
        +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.world/inbox"
        +apDomain: "lemmy.world"
        +apPreferredUsername: "memes"
        +apDiscoverable: true
        +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
        +privateKey: null
        +publicKey: null
        +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1728743545 {#2757
          date: 2024-10-12 16:32:25.0 +02:00
        }
        +apDeletedAt: null
        +apTimeoutAt: null
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699084255 {#2758
          date: 2023-11-04 08:50:55.0 +01:00
        }
        +__isInitialized__: true
         …2
      }
      +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2623 …}
      +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2645 …}
      +slug: "Fuckn-UAE-government"
      +title: "Fuckn UAE government"
      +url: "https://lemmy.zip/pictrs/image/c3c30dc2-5b4f-4220-a540-2c32f137c16f.webp"
      +body: null
      +type: "link"
      +lang: "en"
      +isOc: false
      +hasEmbed: true
      +commentCount: 104
      +favouriteCount: 670
      +score: 0
      +isAdult: false
      +sticky: false
      +lastActive: DateTime @1701141722 {#2599
        date: 2023-11-28 04:22:02.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +adaAmount: 0
      +tags: null
      +mentions: null
      +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2644 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2642 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2639 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2673 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2669 …}
      +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2686 …}
      +children: []
      -id: 15686
      -titleTs: "'fuckn':1 'govern':3 'uae':2"
      -bodyTs: null
      +cross: false
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +ranking: 1700795332
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://lemmy.zip/post/5964041"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700708932 {#2596
        date: 2023-11-23 04:08:52.0 +01:00
      }
      +__isInitialized__: true
       …2
    }
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2391 …2}
    +image: null
    +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2324 …}
    +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2021 …}
    +body: "As a Finn he doesn’t personally benefit from U.S. citizens having affordable health care but the weapons they develop may be used to protect HIS homeland. Like everyone else he has personal interests."
    +lang: "en"
    +isAdult: false
    +favouriteCount: 3
    +score: 0
    +lastActive: DateTime @1700857067 {#2088
      date: 2023-11-24 21:17:47.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +tags: null
    +mentions: [
      "@balderdash9@lemmy.zip"
      "@yagurlreese@lemmy.world"
      "@Kusimulkku@lemm.ee"
    ]
    +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2143 …}
    +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2344 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2073 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2135 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2351 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2341 …}
    -id: 159798
    -bodyTs: "'afford':13 'benefit':8 'care':15 'citizen':11 'develop':20 'doesn':5 'els':30 'everyon':29 'finn':3 'health':14 'homeland':27 'interest':34 'like':28 'may':21 'person':7,33 'protect':25 'u.s':10 'use':23 'weapon':18"
    +ranking: 0
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    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemmy.world/comment/5557550"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700857067 {#2378
      date: 2023-11-24 21:17:47.0 +01:00
    }
  }
  +formDest: "entry_comment"
  +showDownvote: true
  -cache: Symfony\Component\Cache\Adapter\TraceableTagAwareAdapter {#600 …}
}
boost App\Twig\Components\BoostComponent 14.0 MiB 0.58 ms
Input props
[
  "subject" => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2164
    +user: App\Entity\User {#261
      +avatar: null
      +cover: null
      +email: "michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
      +username: "@michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
      +roles: []
      +followersCount: 0
      +homepage: "front"
      +about: null
      +lastActive: DateTime @1719565078 {#269
        date: 2024-06-28 10:57:58.0 +02:00
      }
      +markedForDeletionAt: null
      +fields: null
      +oauthGithubId: null
      +oauthGoogleId: null
      +oauthFacebookId: null
      +oauthKeycloakId: null
      +hideAdult: true
      +showSubscribedUsers: true
      +showSubscribedMagazines: true
      +showSubscribedDomains: true
      +preferredLanguages: []
      +featuredMagazines: null
      +showProfileSubscriptions: false
      +showProfileFollowings: true
      +markNewComments: false
      +notifyOnNewEntry: false
      +notifyOnNewEntryReply: true
      +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: true
      +notifyOnNewPost: false
      +notifyOnNewPostReply: true
      +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: true
      +addMentionsEntries: false
      +addMentionsPosts: true
      +isBanned: false
      +isVerified: false
      +isDeleted: false
      +isBot: false
      +spamProtection: true
      +customCss: null
      +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
      +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#248 …}
      +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#244 …}
      +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#233 …}
      +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#191 …}
      +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#163 …}
      +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#136 …}
      +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#106 …}
      +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#79 …}
      +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#94 …}
      +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1793 …}
      +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1847 …}
      +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2478 …}
      +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1871 …}
      +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1605 …}
      +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1770 …}
      +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1844 …}
      +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1827 …}
      +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2415 …}
      +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1794 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2421 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1931 …}
      +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2401 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1885 …}
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      -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1896 …}
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      +apFollowersUrl: null
      +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.world/inbox"
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      +apPreferredUsername: "michaelmrose"
      +apDiscoverable: true
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      +privateKey: null
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        date: 2023-10-20 08:11:41.0 +02:00
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    +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1405
      +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2598 …}
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        +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2759 …}
        +name: "memes@lemmy.world"
        +title: "memes"
        +description: """
          Community rules\n
          ---------------\n
          \n
          1. Be civilNo trolling, bigotry or other insulting / annoying behaviour\n
          \n
          2. No politicsThis is non-politics community. For political memes please go to [!politicalmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/politicalmemes)\n
          \n
          3. No recent repostsCheck for reposts when posting a meme, you can only repost after 1 month\n
          \n
          4. No botsNo bots without the express approval of the mods or the admins\n
          \n
          5. No Spam/AdsNo advertisements or spam. This is an instance rule and the only way to live.\n
          \n
          \n
          \n
          Sister communities\n
          ------------------\n
          \n
          - [!tenforward@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward) : Star Trek memes, chat and shitposts\n
          - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
          - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
          - [!comicstrips@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips) : for those who love comic stories.
          """
        +rules: null
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        +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2760 …}
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        +privateKey: null
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        +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1728743545 {#2757
          date: 2024-10-12 16:32:25.0 +02:00
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        +apDeletedAt: null
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      +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2645 …}
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      +ip: null
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      +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2644 …}
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    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2391 …2}
    +image: null
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      "@yagurlreese@lemmy.world"
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    +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2143 …}
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  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\BoostComponent {#4004
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      +customCss: null
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      +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#248 …}
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    +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1405
      +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2598 …}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2391
        +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2759 …}
        +name: "memes@lemmy.world"
        +title: "memes"
        +description: """
          Community rules\n
          ---------------\n
          \n
          1. Be civilNo trolling, bigotry or other insulting / annoying behaviour\n
          \n
          2. No politicsThis is non-politics community. For political memes please go to [!politicalmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/politicalmemes)\n
          \n
          3. No recent repostsCheck for reposts when posting a meme, you can only repost after 1 month\n
          \n
          4. No botsNo bots without the express approval of the mods or the admins\n
          \n
          5. No Spam/AdsNo advertisements or spam. This is an instance rule and the only way to live.\n
          \n
          \n
          \n
          Sister communities\n
          ------------------\n
          \n
          - [!tenforward@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward) : Star Trek memes, chat and shitposts\n
          - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
          - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
          - [!comicstrips@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips) : for those who love comic stories.
          """
        +rules: null
        +subscriptionsCount: 1
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        +entryCommentCount: 22597
        +postCount: 0
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        }
        +markedForDeletionAt: null
        +tags: null
        +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2760 …}
        +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2762 …}
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        +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2789 …}
        +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2813 …}
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        +apId: "memes@lemmy.world"
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        +apDiscoverable: true
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          date: 2023-11-04 08:50:55.0 +01:00
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         …2
      }
      +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2623 …}
      +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2645 …}
      +slug: "Fuckn-UAE-government"
      +title: "Fuckn UAE government"
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      +ip: null
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      +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2644 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2642 …}
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      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2669 …}
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        date: 2023-11-23 04:08:52.0 +01:00
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       …2
    }
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2391 …2}
    +image: null
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    +body: "As a Finn he doesn’t personally benefit from U.S. citizens having affordable health care but the weapons they develop may be used to protect HIS homeland. Like everyone else he has personal interests."
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      "@yagurlreese@lemmy.world"
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  }
  -cache: Symfony\Component\Cache\Adapter\TraceableTagAwareAdapter {#600 …}
}
entry_comment App\Twig\Components\EntryCommentComponent 14.0 MiB 62.65 ms
Input props
[
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    +user: App\Entity\User {#261
      +avatar: null
      +cover: null
      +email: "michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
      +username: "@michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
      +roles: []
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      +customCss: null
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      +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#248 …}
      +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#244 …}
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      +apDeletedAt: null
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      +visibility: "visible             "
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        date: 2023-10-20 08:11:41.0 +02:00
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    }
    +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2340
      +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#4296 …}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2300
        +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#4368 …}
        +name: "linux@lemmy.ml"
        +title: "linux"
        +description: """
          From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
          \n
          Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).\n
          \n
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          \n
          ### Rules\n
          \n
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      +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
      +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
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      +body: """
        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
        \n
        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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      Building on top of wlroots is still a different scope of problem than writing a window manager for X. Pretending its the same thing doesn’t change the fundamentally different architecture even if it certainly makes it easier.\n
      \n
      Out of all the libraries isn’t recent KDE the only fucking one that supports proper scaling of xwayland windows without turning it into a blurry mess? KDE which nice as it is lacks most of the nice tiling features of i3wm or the per monitor workspaces? Let me rip out and throw away a highly functional Nvidia GPU and come on down!\n
      \n
      Don’t worry in another fucking 10 years all problems will be solved in the meanwhile I’ll just be fucking using non-beta software. Pardon me if I’m a little annoyed. Wayland has been the future for a while now.
      """
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      +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
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        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
        \n
        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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      Building on top of wlroots is still a different scope of problem than writing a window manager for X. Pretending its the same thing doesn’t change the fundamentally different architecture even if it certainly makes it easier.\n
      \n
      Out of all the libraries isn’t recent KDE the only fucking one that supports proper scaling of xwayland windows without turning it into a blurry mess? KDE which nice as it is lacks most of the nice tiling features of i3wm or the per monitor workspaces? Let me rip out and throw away a highly functional Nvidia GPU and come on down!\n
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      Don’t worry in another fucking 10 years all problems will be solved in the meanwhile I’ll just be fucking using non-beta software. Pardon me if I’m a little annoyed. Wayland has been the future for a while now.
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App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent {#4318
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App\Twig\Components\DateComponent {#4403
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date_edited App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent 14.0 MiB 0.15 ms
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App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent {#4457
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      \n
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Component
App\Twig\Components\MagazineInlineComponent {#4511
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    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#4368 …}
    +name: "linux@lemmy.ml"
    +title: "linux"
    +description: """
      From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
      \n
      Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).\n
      \n
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      - No misinformation\n
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      - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
      \n
      ### Related Communities\n
      \n
      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
      \n
      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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        \n
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    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#4298 …}
    +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
    +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
    +url: null
    +body: """
      Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
      \n
      This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
      \n
      Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
      \n
      ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
      \n
      - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
      - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
      - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
      - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
      \n
      …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
      \n
      In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
      \n
      As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
      \n
      Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
      \n
      And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
      \n
      As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
      \n
      Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
      - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
      - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
      - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
      - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
      - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
      \n
      Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
      - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
      \n
      Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
      - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
      - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
      - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
      - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
      \n
      Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
      \n
      DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
      \n
      Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
      \n
      As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
      - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
      - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
      \n
      Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
      - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
      - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
      - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
      - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
      - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
      - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
      - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
      - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
      - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
      - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
      - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
      \n
      And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
      """
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      Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
      \n
      This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
      \n
      Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
      \n
      ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
      \n
      - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
      - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
      - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
      - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
      \n
      …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
      \n
      In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
      \n
      As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
      \n
      Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
      \n
      And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
      \n
      As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
      \n
      Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
      - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
      - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
      - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
      - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
      - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
      \n
      Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
      - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
      \n
      Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
      - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
      - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
      - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
      - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
      \n
      Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
      \n
      DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
      \n
      Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
      \n
      As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
      - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
      - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
      \n
      Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
      - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
      - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
      - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
      - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
      - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
      - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
      - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
      - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
      - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
      - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
      - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
      \n
      And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
      """
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      +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
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        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
        \n
        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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      Building on top of wlroots is still a different scope of problem than writing a window manager for X. Pretending its the same thing doesn’t change the fundamentally different architecture even if it certainly makes it easier.\n
      \n
      Out of all the libraries isn’t recent KDE the only fucking one that supports proper scaling of xwayland windows without turning it into a blurry mess? KDE which nice as it is lacks most of the nice tiling features of i3wm or the per monitor workspaces? Let me rip out and throw away a highly functional Nvidia GPU and come on down!\n
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      Don’t worry in another fucking 10 years all problems will be solved in the meanwhile I’ll just be fucking using non-beta software. Pardon me if I’m a little annoyed. Wayland has been the future for a while now.
      """
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      +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#4298 …}
      +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
      +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
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      +body: """
        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
        \n
        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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      Building on top of wlroots is still a different scope of problem than writing a window manager for X. Pretending its the same thing doesn’t change the fundamentally different architecture even if it certainly makes it easier.\n
      \n
      Out of all the libraries isn’t recent KDE the only fucking one that supports proper scaling of xwayland windows without turning it into a blurry mess? KDE which nice as it is lacks most of the nice tiling features of i3wm or the per monitor workspaces? Let me rip out and throw away a highly functional Nvidia GPU and come on down!\n
      \n
      Don’t worry in another fucking 10 years all problems will be solved in the meanwhile I’ll just be fucking using non-beta software. Pardon me if I’m a little annoyed. Wayland has been the future for a while now.
      """
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        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
        \n
        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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      Building on top of wlroots is still a different scope of problem than writing a window manager for X. Pretending its the same thing doesn’t change the fundamentally different architecture even if it certainly makes it easier.\n
      \n
      Out of all the libraries isn’t recent KDE the only fucking one that supports proper scaling of xwayland windows without turning it into a blurry mess? KDE which nice as it is lacks most of the nice tiling features of i3wm or the per monitor workspaces? Let me rip out and throw away a highly functional Nvidia GPU and come on down!\n
      \n
      Don’t worry in another fucking 10 years all problems will be solved in the meanwhile I’ll just be fucking using non-beta software. Pardon me if I’m a little annoyed. Wayland has been the future for a while now.
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      +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#4298 …}
      +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
      +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
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      +body: """
        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
        \n
        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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      Building on top of wlroots is still a different scope of problem than writing a window manager for X. Pretending its the same thing doesn’t change the fundamentally different architecture even if it certainly makes it easier.\n
      \n
      Out of all the libraries isn’t recent KDE the only fucking one that supports proper scaling of xwayland windows without turning it into a blurry mess? KDE which nice as it is lacks most of the nice tiling features of i3wm or the per monitor workspaces? Let me rip out and throw away a highly functional Nvidia GPU and come on down!\n
      \n
      Don’t worry in another fucking 10 years all problems will be solved in the meanwhile I’ll just be fucking using non-beta software. Pardon me if I’m a little annoyed. Wayland has been the future for a while now.
      """
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        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
        \n
        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
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          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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      +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
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      +body: """
        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
        \n
        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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  -requestStack: Symfony\Component\HttpFoundation\RequestStack {#1328 …}
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}
user_inline App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent 14.0 MiB 0.12 ms
Input props
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App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent {#5049
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date App\Twig\Components\DateComponent 14.0 MiB 0.12 ms
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App\Twig\Components\DateComponent {#5105
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date_edited App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent 14.0 MiB 0.08 ms
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App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent {#5159
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magazine_inline App\Twig\Components\MagazineInlineComponent 14.0 MiB 0.12 ms
Input props
[
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      \n
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      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
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      \n
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]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\MagazineInlineComponent {#5213
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2300
    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#4368 …}
    +name: "linux@lemmy.ml"
    +title: "linux"
    +description: """
      From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
      \n
      Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).\n
      \n
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      - No NSFW content\n
      - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
      \n
      ### Related Communities\n
      \n
      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
      \n
      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
      """
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entry_inline App\Twig\Components\EntryInlineComponent 14.0 MiB 0.12 ms
Input props
[
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        - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
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        \n
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        date: 2024-10-22 09:53:16.0 +02:00
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    +image: null
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#4298 …}
    +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
    +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
    +url: null
    +body: """
      Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
      \n
      This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
      \n
      Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
      \n
      ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
      \n
      - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
      - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
      - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
      - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
      \n
      …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
      \n
      In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
      \n
      As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
      \n
      Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
      \n
      And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
      \n
      As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
      \n
      Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
      - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
      - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
      - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
      - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
      - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
      \n
      Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
      - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
      \n
      Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
      - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
      - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
      - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
      - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
      \n
      Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
      \n
      DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
      \n
      Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
      \n
      As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
      - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
      - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
      \n
      Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
      - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
      - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
      - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
      - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
      - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
      - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
      - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
      - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
      - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
      - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
      - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
      \n
      And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
      """
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    +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
    +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
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      Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
      \n
      This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
      \n
      Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
      \n
      ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
      \n
      - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
      - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
      - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
      - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
      \n
      …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
      \n
      In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
      \n
      As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
      \n
      Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
      \n
      And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
      \n
      As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
      \n
      Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
      - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
      - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
      - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
      - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
      - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
      \n
      Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
      - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
      \n
      Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
      - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
      - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
      - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
      - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
      \n
      Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
      \n
      DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
      \n
      Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
      \n
      As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
      - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
      - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
      \n
      Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
      - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
      - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
      - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
      - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
      - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
      - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
      - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
      - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
      - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
      - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
      - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
      \n
      And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
      """
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user_avatar App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent 14.0 MiB 0.12 ms
Input props
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Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent {#5323
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vote App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent 14.0 MiB 0.33 ms
Input props
[
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          \n
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          - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
          - No misinformation\n
          - No NSFW content\n
          - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
          \n
          ### Related Communities\n
          \n
          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
          - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
          \n
          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
          """
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      +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#4298 …}
      +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
      +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
        \n
        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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      +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
      +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
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        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
        \n
        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
        \n
        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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      +body: """
        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
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        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
        \n
        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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    +body: """
      X has a singular fully functional implementation into which you can slot a wide variety of components. Because everything is a component that slots into the singular X implementation forking has both a low benefit and a high cost.\n
      \n
      Wayland is just a protocol everyone must implement with a semi useless reference implementation that nobody would ever use. Nobody forks Wayland they just implement it as they must the X approach isn’t available.\n
      \n
      It’s apples to oranges. A meaningless comparison. Its more just churn than innovation on the part of desktops.
      """
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          \n
          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
          - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
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      +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
      +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
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      +body: """
        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
        \n
        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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    +body: """
      X has a singular fully functional implementation into which you can slot a wide variety of components. Because everything is a component that slots into the singular X implementation forking has both a low benefit and a high cost.\n
      \n
      Wayland is just a protocol everyone must implement with a semi useless reference implementation that nobody would ever use. Nobody forks Wayland they just implement it as they must the X approach isn’t available.\n
      \n
      It’s apples to oranges. A meaningless comparison. Its more just churn than innovation on the part of desktops.
      """
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  +showEntryTitle: true
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  -requestStack: Symfony\Component\HttpFoundation\RequestStack {#1328 …}
  -authorizationChecker: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\AuthorizationChecker {#931 …}
}
user_inline App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent 14.0 MiB 0.12 ms
Input props
[
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    +cover: null
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    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
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    +showProfileFollowings: true
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    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: true
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    +customCss: null
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    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#244 …}
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[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent {#5743
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    +customCss: null
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date App\Twig\Components\DateComponent 14.0 MiB 0.12 ms
Input props
[
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    date: 2023-11-18 10:12:36.0 +01:00
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]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateComponent {#5799
  +date: DateTimeImmutable @1700298756 {#2349
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}
date_edited App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent 14.0 MiB 0.08 ms
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[
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  "editedAt" => null
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent {#5853
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    date: 2023-11-18 10:12:36.0 +01:00
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}
magazine_inline App\Twig\Components\MagazineInlineComponent 14.0 MiB 0.11 ms
Input props
[
  "magazine" => Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2300
    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#4368 …}
    +name: "linux@lemmy.ml"
    +title: "linux"
    +description: """
      From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
      \n
      Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).\n
      \n
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      \n
      ### Rules\n
      \n
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      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
      \n
      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
      """
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]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\MagazineInlineComponent {#5907
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2300
    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#4368 …}
    +name: "linux@lemmy.ml"
    +title: "linux"
    +description: """
      From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
      \n
      Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).\n
      \n
      Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.\n
      \n
      ### Rules\n
      \n
      - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
      - No misinformation\n
      - No NSFW content\n
      - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
      \n
      ### Related Communities\n
      \n
      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
      \n
      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
      """
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entry_inline App\Twig\Components\EntryInlineComponent 14.0 MiB 0.14 ms
Input props
[
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    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2300
      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#4368 …}
      +name: "linux@lemmy.ml"
      +title: "linux"
      +description: """
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        \n
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        \n
        - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
        - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
        - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
        - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
        \n
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        """
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      +markedForDeletionAt: null
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      +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1729583596 {#4366
        date: 2024-10-22 09:53:16.0 +02:00
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        date: 2023-11-02 13:51:08.0 +01:00
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    +image: null
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#4298 …}
    +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
    +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
    +url: null
    +body: """
      Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
      \n
      This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
      \n
      Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
      \n
      ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
      \n
      - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
      - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
      - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
      - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
      \n
      …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
      \n
      In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
      \n
      As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
      \n
      Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
      \n
      And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
      \n
      As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
      \n
      Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
      - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
      - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
      - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
      - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
      - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
      \n
      Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
      - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
      \n
      Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
      - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
      - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
      - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
      - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
      \n
      Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
      \n
      DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
      \n
      Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
      \n
      As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
      - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
      - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
      \n
      Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
      - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
      - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
      - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
      - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
      - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
      - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
      - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
      - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
      - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
      - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
      - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
      \n
      And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
      """
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    +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
    +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
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    +body: """
      Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
      \n
      This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
      \n
      Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
      \n
      ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
      \n
      - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
      - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
      - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
      - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
      \n
      …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
      \n
      In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
      \n
      As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
      \n
      Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
      \n
      And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
      \n
      As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
      \n
      Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
      - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
      - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
      - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
      - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
      - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
      \n
      Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
      - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
      \n
      Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
      - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
      - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
      - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
      - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
      \n
      Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
      \n
      DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
      \n
      Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
      \n
      As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
      - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
      - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
      \n
      Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
      - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
      - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
      - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
      - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
      - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
      - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
      - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
      - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
      - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
      - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
      - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
      \n
      And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
      """
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     …2
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}
user_avatar App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent 14.0 MiB 0.12 ms
Input props
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]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent {#6017
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}
vote App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent 14.0 MiB 0.34 ms
Input props
[
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          \n
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          \n
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          \n
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          - No misinformation\n
          - No NSFW content\n
          - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
          \n
          ### Related Communities\n
          \n
          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
          - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
          \n
          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
          """
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      +image: null
      +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#4298 …}
      +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
      +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
        \n
        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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      X has a singular fully functional implementation into which you can slot a wide variety of components. Because everything is a component that slots into the singular X implementation forking has both a low benefit and a high cost.\n
      \n
      Wayland is just a protocol everyone must implement with a semi useless reference implementation that nobody would ever use. Nobody forks Wayland they just implement it as they must the X approach isn’t available.\n
      \n
      It’s apples to oranges. A meaningless comparison. Its more just churn than innovation on the part of desktops.
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      +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
      +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
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      +body: """
        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
        \n
        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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      X has a singular fully functional implementation into which you can slot a wide variety of components. Because everything is a component that slots into the singular X implementation forking has both a low benefit and a high cost.\n
      \n
      Wayland is just a protocol everyone must implement with a semi useless reference implementation that nobody would ever use. Nobody forks Wayland they just implement it as they must the X approach isn’t available.\n
      \n
      It’s apples to oranges. A meaningless comparison. Its more just churn than innovation on the part of desktops.
      """
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          \n
          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
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          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
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          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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      +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
      +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
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      +body: """
        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
        \n
        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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      X has a singular fully functional implementation into which you can slot a wide variety of components. Because everything is a component that slots into the singular X implementation forking has both a low benefit and a high cost.\n
      \n
      Wayland is just a protocol everyone must implement with a semi useless reference implementation that nobody would ever use. Nobody forks Wayland they just implement it as they must the X approach isn’t available.\n
      \n
      It’s apples to oranges. A meaningless comparison. Its more just churn than innovation on the part of desktops.
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      +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
      +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
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        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
        \n
        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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      X has a singular fully functional implementation into which you can slot a wide variety of components. Because everything is a component that slots into the singular X implementation forking has both a low benefit and a high cost.\n
      \n
      Wayland is just a protocol everyone must implement with a semi useless reference implementation that nobody would ever use. Nobody forks Wayland they just implement it as they must the X approach isn’t available.\n
      \n
      It’s apples to oranges. A meaningless comparison. Its more just churn than innovation on the part of desktops.
      """
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          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
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          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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      +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
      +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
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      +body: """
        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
        \n
        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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      +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
      +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
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      +body: """
        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
        \n
        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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    +body: "The article is 3 years old and some things are only presently being fixed NOW and due to filter down to stable distros in 2024. Furthermore wayland proponents have been claiming its totally ready for prime time and not broken at all since 2015 while promoting AMD GPUs that at that point in time still sucked hairy balls."
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      Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
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      This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
      \n
      Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
      \n
      ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
      \n
      - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
      - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
      - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
      - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
      \n
      …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
      \n
      In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
      \n
      As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
      \n
      Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
      \n
      And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
      \n
      As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
      \n
      Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
      - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
      - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
      - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
      - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
      - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
      \n
      Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
      - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
      \n
      Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
      - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
      - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
      - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
      - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
      \n
      Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
      \n
      DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
      \n
      Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
      \n
      As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
      - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
      - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
      \n
      Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
      - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
      - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
      - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
      - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
      - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
      - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
      - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
      - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
      - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
      - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
      - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
      \n
      And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
      """
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    +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
    +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
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    +body: """
      Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
      \n
      This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
      \n
      Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
      \n
      ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
      \n
      - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
      - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
      - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
      - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
      \n
      …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
      \n
      In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
      \n
      As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
      \n
      Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
      \n
      And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
      \n
      As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
      \n
      Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
      - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
      - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
      - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
      - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
      - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
      \n
      Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
      - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
      \n
      Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
      - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
      - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
      - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
      - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
      \n
      Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
      \n
      DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
      \n
      Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
      \n
      As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
      - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
      - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
      \n
      Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
      - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
      - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
      - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
      - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
      - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
      - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
      - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
      - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
      - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
      - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
      - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
      \n
      And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
      """
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user_avatar App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent 14.0 MiB 0.12 ms
Input props
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Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent {#6719
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vote App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent 14.0 MiB 0.34 ms
Input props
[
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      +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
      +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
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      +body: """
        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
        \n
        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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    +body: "The article is 3 years old and some things are only presently being fixed NOW and due to filter down to stable distros in 2024. Furthermore wayland proponents have been claiming its totally ready for prime time and not broken at all since 2015 while promoting AMD GPUs that at that point in time still sucked hairy balls."
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      +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
      +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
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        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
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        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
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      +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
      +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
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      +body: """
        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
        \n
        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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    +body: "The article is 3 years old and some things are only presently being fixed NOW and due to filter down to stable distros in 2024. Furthermore wayland proponents have been claiming its totally ready for prime time and not broken at all since 2015 while promoting AMD GPUs that at that point in time still sucked hairy balls."
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        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
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        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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      +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
      +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
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      +body: """
        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
        \n
        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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    +body: "For most of its 15 year history implementations have been woefully and obviously insufficient. Nobody forked X because nobody needed to. Its feature complete and has been for a long time and there was nothing wrong with using X while Wayland implementations see progressive improvement."
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      +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
      +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
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        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
        \n
        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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      Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
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      This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
      \n
      Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
      \n
      ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
      \n
      - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
      - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
      - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
      - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
      \n
      …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
      \n
      In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
      \n
      As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
      \n
      Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
      \n
      And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
      \n
      As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
      \n
      Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
      - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
      - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
      - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
      - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
      - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
      \n
      Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
      - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
      \n
      Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
      - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
      - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
      - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
      - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
      \n
      Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
      \n
      DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
      \n
      Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
      \n
      As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
      - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
      - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
      \n
      Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
      - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
      - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
      - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
      - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
      - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
      - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
      - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
      - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
      - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
      - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
      - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
      \n
      And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
      """
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      Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
      \n
      This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
      \n
      Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
      \n
      ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
      \n
      - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
      - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
      - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
      - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
      \n
      …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
      \n
      In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
      \n
      As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
      \n
      Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
      \n
      And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
      \n
      As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
      \n
      Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
      - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
      - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
      - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
      - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
      - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
      \n
      Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
      - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
      \n
      Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
      - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
      - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
      - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
      - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
      \n
      Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
      \n
      DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
      \n
      Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
      \n
      As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
      - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
      - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
      \n
      Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
      - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
      - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
      - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
      - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
      - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
      - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
      - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
      - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
      - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
      - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
      - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
      \n
      And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
      """
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        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
        \n
        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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    +body: "For most of its 15 year history implementations have been woefully and obviously insufficient. Nobody forked X because nobody needed to. Its feature complete and has been for a long time and there was nothing wrong with using X while Wayland implementations see progressive improvement."
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      +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
      +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
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      +body: """
        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
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        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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    +body: "For most of its 15 year history implementations have been woefully and obviously insufficient. Nobody forked X because nobody needed to. Its feature complete and has been for a long time and there was nothing wrong with using X while Wayland implementations see progressive improvement."
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        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
        \n
        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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    +body: "For most of its 15 year history implementations have been woefully and obviously insufficient. Nobody forked X because nobody needed to. Its feature complete and has been for a long time and there was nothing wrong with using X while Wayland implementations see progressive improvement."
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          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
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      +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
      +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
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      +body: """
        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
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        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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      +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
      +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
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        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
        \n
        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
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        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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App\Twig\Components\MagazineInlineComponent {#7817
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    +description: """
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    +body: """
      Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
      \n
      This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
      \n
      Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
      \n
      ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
      \n
      - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
      - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
      - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
      - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
      \n
      …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
      \n
      In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
      \n
      As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
      \n
      Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
      \n
      And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
      \n
      As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
      \n
      Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
      - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
      - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
      - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
      - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
      - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
      \n
      Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
      - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
      \n
      Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
      - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
      - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
      - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
      - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
      \n
      Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
      \n
      DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
      \n
      Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
      \n
      As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
      - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
      - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
      \n
      Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
      - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
      - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
      - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
      - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
      - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
      - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
      - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
      - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
      - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
      - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
      - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
      \n
      And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
      """
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    +body: """
      Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
      \n
      This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
      \n
      Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
      \n
      ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
      \n
      - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
      - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
      - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
      - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
      \n
      …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
      \n
      In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
      \n
      As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
      \n
      Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
      \n
      And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
      \n
      As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
      \n
      Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
      - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
      - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
      - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
      - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
      - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
      \n
      Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
      - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
      \n
      Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
      - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
      - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
      - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
      - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
      \n
      Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
      \n
      DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
      \n
      Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
      \n
      As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
      - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
      - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
      \n
      Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
      - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
      - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
      - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
      - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
      - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
      - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
      - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
      - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
      - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
      - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
      - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
      \n
      And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
      """
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      +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
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        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
        \n
        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
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        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
        \n
        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
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        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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      +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
      +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
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      +body: """
        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
        \n
        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
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        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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    +body: """
      Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
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      This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
      \n
      Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
      \n
      ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
      \n
      - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
      - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
      - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
      - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
      \n
      …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
      \n
      In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
      \n
      As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
      \n
      Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
      \n
      And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
      \n
      As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
      \n
      Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
      - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
      - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
      - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
      - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
      - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
      \n
      Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
      - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
      \n
      Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
      - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
      - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
      - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
      - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
      \n
      Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
      \n
      DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
      \n
      Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
      \n
      As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
      - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
      - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
      \n
      Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
      - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
      - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
      - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
      - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
      - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
      - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
      - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
      - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
      - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
      - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
      - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
      \n
      And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
      """
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      Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
      \n
      This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
      \n
      Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
      \n
      ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
      \n
      - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
      - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
      - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
      - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
      \n
      …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
      \n
      In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
      \n
      As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
      \n
      Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
      \n
      And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
      \n
      As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
      \n
      Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
      - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
      - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
      - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
      - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
      - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
      \n
      Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
      - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
      \n
      Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
      - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
      - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
      - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
      - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
      \n
      Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
      \n
      DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
      \n
      Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
      \n
      As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
      - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
      - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
      \n
      Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
      - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
      - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
      - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
      - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
      - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
      - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
      - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
      - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
      - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
      - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
      - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
      \n
      And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
      """
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        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
        \n
        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
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        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
        \n
        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
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        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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      +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
      +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
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      +body: """
        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
        \n
        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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      Nvidia appeared fairly buggy as of nvidia 535 and kernel 6.3 with both sway and Plasma 5.27. Notably of all the possible choices for Wayland support ONLY KDE in relatively recent releases supports proper scaling of apps using xwayland which are apt to be a thing for a while now. This is a huge point in KDE’s favor despite loving the idea of an i3 like experience with sway.\n
      \n
      If prior experience bears out plasma 6.0 will be buggy as fuck and 6.2 will be excellent.\n
      \n
      Nouveau has NEVER been a particularly good choice and its primary developer just resigned [www.phoronix.com/news/Nouveau-Maintainer-Resigns](https://www.phoronix.com/news/Nouveau-Maintainer-Resigns) I wouldn’t pin my hopes on it in the future becoming usable. I sure as hell wouldn’t say its a useful choice NOW because you suppose it may become so in the future. I’d rather look at nvidias official open source effort.\n
      \n
      If I had a crystal ball to look in I bet it would say a lot of folks with existing Nvidia hardware are best off sticking with X11 in 2023 but looking again at KDE’s wayland session in 2024.\n
      \n
      Although do bear in mind people using stable distros like Ubuntu/Mint/Debian will be a lot longer seeing new useful features pushed out.
      """
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          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
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          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
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          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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      +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
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        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
        \n
        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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    +body: """
      Nvidia appeared fairly buggy as of nvidia 535 and kernel 6.3 with both sway and Plasma 5.27. Notably of all the possible choices for Wayland support ONLY KDE in relatively recent releases supports proper scaling of apps using xwayland which are apt to be a thing for a while now. This is a huge point in KDE’s favor despite loving the idea of an i3 like experience with sway.\n
      \n
      If prior experience bears out plasma 6.0 will be buggy as fuck and 6.2 will be excellent.\n
      \n
      Nouveau has NEVER been a particularly good choice and its primary developer just resigned [www.phoronix.com/news/Nouveau-Maintainer-Resigns](https://www.phoronix.com/news/Nouveau-Maintainer-Resigns) I wouldn’t pin my hopes on it in the future becoming usable. I sure as hell wouldn’t say its a useful choice NOW because you suppose it may become so in the future. I’d rather look at nvidias official open source effort.\n
      \n
      If I had a crystal ball to look in I bet it would say a lot of folks with existing Nvidia hardware are best off sticking with X11 in 2023 but looking again at KDE’s wayland session in 2024.\n
      \n
      Although do bear in mind people using stable distros like Ubuntu/Mint/Debian will be a lot longer seeing new useful features pushed out.
      """
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  -requestStack: Symfony\Component\HttpFoundation\RequestStack {#1328 …}
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}
user_inline App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent 14.0 MiB 0.11 ms
Input props
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Component
App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent {#9041
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date App\Twig\Components\DateComponent 14.0 MiB 0.12 ms
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[
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[]
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App\Twig\Components\DateComponent {#9097
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date_edited App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent 14.0 MiB 0.16 ms
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App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent {#9151
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magazine_inline App\Twig\Components\MagazineInlineComponent 14.0 MiB 0.12 ms
Input props
[
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    +description: """
      From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
      \n
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      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
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      \n
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]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\MagazineInlineComponent {#9205
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2300
    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#4368 …}
    +name: "linux@lemmy.ml"
    +title: "linux"
    +description: """
      From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
      \n
      Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).\n
      \n
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      \n
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      - No misinformation\n
      - No NSFW content\n
      - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
      \n
      ### Related Communities\n
      \n
      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
      \n
      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
      """
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entry_inline App\Twig\Components\EntryInlineComponent 14.0 MiB 0.15 ms
Input props
[
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      +title: "linux"
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        - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
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        \n
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        date: 2024-10-22 09:53:16.0 +02:00
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    +image: null
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#4298 …}
    +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
    +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
    +url: null
    +body: """
      Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
      \n
      This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
      \n
      Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
      \n
      ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
      \n
      - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
      - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
      - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
      - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
      \n
      …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
      \n
      In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
      \n
      As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
      \n
      Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
      \n
      And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
      \n
      As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
      \n
      Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
      - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
      - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
      - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
      - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
      - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
      \n
      Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
      - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
      \n
      Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
      - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
      - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
      - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
      - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
      \n
      Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
      \n
      DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
      \n
      Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
      \n
      As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
      - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
      - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
      \n
      Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
      - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
      - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
      - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
      - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
      - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
      - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
      - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
      - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
      - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
      - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
      - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
      \n
      And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
      """
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    +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
    +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
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      Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
      \n
      This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
      \n
      Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
      \n
      ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
      \n
      - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
      - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
      - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
      - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
      \n
      …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
      \n
      In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
      \n
      As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
      \n
      Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
      \n
      And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
      \n
      As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
      \n
      Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
      - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
      - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
      - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
      - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
      - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
      \n
      Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
      - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
      \n
      Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
      - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
      - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
      - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
      - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
      \n
      Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
      \n
      DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
      \n
      Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
      \n
      As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
      - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
      - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
      \n
      Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
      - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
      - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
      - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
      - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
      - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
      - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
      - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
      - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
      - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
      - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
      - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
      \n
      And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
      """
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user_avatar App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent 14.0 MiB 0.13 ms
Input props
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Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent {#9315
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vote App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent 14.0 MiB 0.35 ms
Input props
[
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          \n
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          ### Rules\n
          \n
          - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
          - No misinformation\n
          - No NSFW content\n
          - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
          \n
          ### Related Communities\n
          \n
          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
          - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
          \n
          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
          """
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      +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#4298 …}
      +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
      +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
        \n
        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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      Nvidia appeared fairly buggy as of nvidia 535 and kernel 6.3 with both sway and Plasma 5.27. Notably of all the possible choices for Wayland support ONLY KDE in relatively recent releases supports proper scaling of apps using xwayland which are apt to be a thing for a while now. This is a huge point in KDE’s favor despite loving the idea of an i3 like experience with sway.\n
      \n
      If prior experience bears out plasma 6.0 will be buggy as fuck and 6.2 will be excellent.\n
      \n
      Nouveau has NEVER been a particularly good choice and its primary developer just resigned [www.phoronix.com/news/Nouveau-Maintainer-Resigns](https://www.phoronix.com/news/Nouveau-Maintainer-Resigns) I wouldn’t pin my hopes on it in the future becoming usable. I sure as hell wouldn’t say its a useful choice NOW because you suppose it may become so in the future. I’d rather look at nvidias official open source effort.\n
      \n
      If I had a crystal ball to look in I bet it would say a lot of folks with existing Nvidia hardware are best off sticking with X11 in 2023 but looking again at KDE’s wayland session in 2024.\n
      \n
      Although do bear in mind people using stable distros like Ubuntu/Mint/Debian will be a lot longer seeing new useful features pushed out.
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      +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
      +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
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      +body: """
        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
        \n
        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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      Nvidia appeared fairly buggy as of nvidia 535 and kernel 6.3 with both sway and Plasma 5.27. Notably of all the possible choices for Wayland support ONLY KDE in relatively recent releases supports proper scaling of apps using xwayland which are apt to be a thing for a while now. This is a huge point in KDE’s favor despite loving the idea of an i3 like experience with sway.\n
      \n
      If prior experience bears out plasma 6.0 will be buggy as fuck and 6.2 will be excellent.\n
      \n
      Nouveau has NEVER been a particularly good choice and its primary developer just resigned [www.phoronix.com/news/Nouveau-Maintainer-Resigns](https://www.phoronix.com/news/Nouveau-Maintainer-Resigns) I wouldn’t pin my hopes on it in the future becoming usable. I sure as hell wouldn’t say its a useful choice NOW because you suppose it may become so in the future. I’d rather look at nvidias official open source effort.\n
      \n
      If I had a crystal ball to look in I bet it would say a lot of folks with existing Nvidia hardware are best off sticking with X11 in 2023 but looking again at KDE’s wayland session in 2024.\n
      \n
      Although do bear in mind people using stable distros like Ubuntu/Mint/Debian will be a lot longer seeing new useful features pushed out.
      """
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          - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
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          - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
          - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
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          Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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      +body: """
        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
        \n
        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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      Nvidia appeared fairly buggy as of nvidia 535 and kernel 6.3 with both sway and Plasma 5.27. Notably of all the possible choices for Wayland support ONLY KDE in relatively recent releases supports proper scaling of apps using xwayland which are apt to be a thing for a while now. This is a huge point in KDE’s favor despite loving the idea of an i3 like experience with sway.\n
      \n
      If prior experience bears out plasma 6.0 will be buggy as fuck and 6.2 will be excellent.\n
      \n
      Nouveau has NEVER been a particularly good choice and its primary developer just resigned [www.phoronix.com/news/Nouveau-Maintainer-Resigns](https://www.phoronix.com/news/Nouveau-Maintainer-Resigns) I wouldn’t pin my hopes on it in the future becoming usable. I sure as hell wouldn’t say its a useful choice NOW because you suppose it may become so in the future. I’d rather look at nvidias official open source effort.\n
      \n
      If I had a crystal ball to look in I bet it would say a lot of folks with existing Nvidia hardware are best off sticking with X11 in 2023 but looking again at KDE’s wayland session in 2024.\n
      \n
      Although do bear in mind people using stable distros like Ubuntu/Mint/Debian will be a lot longer seeing new useful features pushed out.
      """
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      +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
      +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
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        Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
        \n
        This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
        \n
        Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
        \n
        ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
        \n
        - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
        - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
        - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
        - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
        \n
        …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
        \n
        In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
        \n
        As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
        \n
        Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
        \n
        And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
        \n
        As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
        \n
        Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
        - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
        - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
        - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
        - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
        \n
        Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
        - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
        \n
        Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
        - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
        - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
        \n
        Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
        \n
        DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
        \n
        Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
        \n
        As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
        - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
        - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
        \n
        Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
        \n
        - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
        - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
        - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
        - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
        - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
        - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
        - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
        - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
        - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
        - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
        - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
        \n
        And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
        """
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    +body: """
      Nvidia appeared fairly buggy as of nvidia 535 and kernel 6.3 with both sway and Plasma 5.27. Notably of all the possible choices for Wayland support ONLY KDE in relatively recent releases supports proper scaling of apps using xwayland which are apt to be a thing for a while now. This is a huge point in KDE’s favor despite loving the idea of an i3 like experience with sway.\n
      \n
      If prior experience bears out plasma 6.0 will be buggy as fuck and 6.2 will be excellent.\n
      \n
      Nouveau has NEVER been a particularly good choice and its primary developer just resigned [www.phoronix.com/news/Nouveau-Maintainer-Resigns](https://www.phoronix.com/news/Nouveau-Maintainer-Resigns) I wouldn’t pin my hopes on it in the future becoming usable. I sure as hell wouldn’t say its a useful choice NOW because you suppose it may become so in the future. I’d rather look at nvidias official open source effort.\n
      \n
      If I had a crystal ball to look in I bet it would say a lot of folks with existing Nvidia hardware are best off sticking with X11 in 2023 but looking again at KDE’s wayland session in 2024.\n
      \n
      Although do bear in mind people using stable distros like Ubuntu/Mint/Debian will be a lot longer seeing new useful features pushed out.
      """
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    +body: "It’s funny that you offer correction. UK English makes this distinction, US English doesn’t and uses practice for both. Internationally where many English speakers mix neither usage can really be said to be incorrect. Pedantry fail."
    +lang: "en"
    +isAdult: false
    +favouriteCount: 5
    +score: 0
    +lastActive: DateTime @1697782299 {#2298
      date: 2023-10-20 08:11:39.0 +02:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +tags: null
    +mentions: [
      "@sag@lemm.ee"
      "@tfw_no_toiletpaper@feddit.de"
      "@snausagesinablanket@lemmy.world"
      "@DillyDaily@lemmy.world"
    ]
    +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2313 …}
    +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2292 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2290 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2295 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2283 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2282 …}
    -id: 60721
    -bodyTs: "'correct':7 'distinct':12 'doesn':15 'english':9,14,25 'fail':38 'funni':3 'incorrect':36 'intern':22 'make':10 'mani':24 'mix':27 'neither':28 'offer':6 'pedantri':37 'practic':19 'realli':31 'said':33 'speaker':26 'uk':8 'us':13 'usag':29 'use':18"
    +ranking: 0
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    +visibility: "visible             "
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    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697782299 {#2311
      date: 2023-10-20 08:11:39.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  "showNested" => false
  "dateAsUrl" => true
  "showMagazineName" => true
  "showEntryTitle" => true
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\EntryCommentComponent {#9712
  +comment: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2304
    +user: App\Entity\User {#261
      +avatar: null
      +cover: null
      +email: "michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
      +username: "@michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
      +roles: []
      +followersCount: 0
      +homepage: "front"
      +about: null
      +lastActive: DateTime @1719565078 {#269
        date: 2024-06-28 10:57:58.0 +02:00
      }
      +markedForDeletionAt: null
      +fields: null
      +oauthGithubId: null
      +oauthGoogleId: null
      +oauthFacebookId: null
      +oauthKeycloakId: null
      +hideAdult: true
      +showSubscribedUsers: true
      +showSubscribedMagazines: true
      +showSubscribedDomains: true
      +preferredLanguages: []
      +featuredMagazines: null
      +showProfileSubscriptions: false
      +showProfileFollowings: true
      +markNewComments: false
      +notifyOnNewEntry: false
      +notifyOnNewEntryReply: true
      +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: true
      +notifyOnNewPost: false
      +notifyOnNewPostReply: true
      +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: true
      +addMentionsEntries: false
      +addMentionsPosts: true
      +isBanned: false
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      +isDeleted: false
      +isBot: false
      +spamProtection: true
      +customCss: null
      +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
      +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#248 …}
      +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#244 …}
      +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#233 …}
      +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#191 …}
      +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#163 …}
      +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#136 …}
      +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#106 …}
      +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#79 …}
      +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#94 …}
      +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1793 …}
      +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1847 …}
      +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2478 …}
      +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1871 …}
      +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1605 …}
      +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1770 …}
      +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1844 …}
      +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1827 …}
      +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2415 …}
      +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1794 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2421 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1931 …}
      +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2401 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1885 …}
      +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1951 …}
      +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1886 …}
      +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1924 …}
      -id: 63226
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      -totpSecret: null
      -totpBackupCodes: []
      -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1896 …}
      +apId: "michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
      +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.world/u/michaelmrose"
      +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.world/u/michaelmrose"
      +apFollowersUrl: null
      +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.world/inbox"
      +apDomain: "lemmy.world"
      +apPreferredUsername: "michaelmrose"
      +apDiscoverable: true
      +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
      +privateKey: null
      +publicKey: null
      +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1705515156 {#272
        date: 2024-01-17 19:12:36.0 +01:00
      }
      +apDeletedAt: null
      +apTimeoutAt: null
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697782301 {#275
        date: 2023-10-20 08:11:41.0 +02:00
      }
    }
    +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2303
      +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#9755 …}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2319
        +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#9828 …}
        +name: "comicstrips@lemmy.world"
        +title: "comicstrips"
        +description: """
          **Comic Strips** is a community for those who love comic stories.\n
          \n
          The rules are simple:\n
          \n
          - The post can be a single image, an image gallery, or a link to a specific comic hosted on another site (the author’s website, for instance).\n
          - The comic must be a complete story.\n
          - If it is an external link, it must be to a specific story, not to the root of the site.\n
          - You may post comics from others or your own.\n
          - If you are posting a comic of your own, a maximum of one per week is allowed (I know, your comics are great, but this rule helps avoid spam).\n
          - The comic can be in any language, but if it’s not in English, OP must include an English translation in the post’s ‘body’ field (note: you don’t need to select a specific language when posting a comic).\n
          - Politeness.\n
          - Adult content is not allowed. This community aims to be fun for people of all ages.\n
          \n
          **Web of links**\n
          \n
          - !linuxmemes@lemmy.world: “I use Arch btw”\n
          - !memes@lemmy.world: memes (you don’t say!)
          """
        +rules: null
        +subscriptionsCount: 1
        +entryCount: 1101
        +entryCommentCount: 12482
        +postCount: 0
        +postCommentCount: 0
        +isAdult: false
        +customCss: null
        +lastActive: DateTime @1729550237 {#9825
          date: 2024-10-22 00:37:17.0 +02:00
        }
        +markedForDeletionAt: null
        +tags: null
        +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9829 …}
        +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9831 …}
        +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9833 …}
        +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9835 …}
        +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9837 …}
        +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9839 …}
        +bans: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9841 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9843 …}
        +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9845 …}
        +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9847 …}
        +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9849 …}
        +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9851 …}
        -id: 45
        +apId: "comicstrips@lemmy.world"
        +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips"
        +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips"
        +apFollowersUrl: "https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips/followers"
        +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.world/inbox"
        +apDomain: "lemmy.world"
        +apPreferredUsername: "comicstrips"
        +apDiscoverable: true
        +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
        +privateKey: null
        +publicKey: null
        +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1727428112 {#9826
          date: 2024-09-27 11:08:32.0 +02:00
        }
        +apDeletedAt: null
        +apTimeoutAt: null
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1696957401 {#9827
          date: 2023-10-10 19:03:21.0 +02:00
        }
        +__isInitialized__: true
         …2
      }
      +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#9757 …}
      +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#9758 …}
      +slug: "Just-Season-It-by-Mr-Lovenstein"
      +title: ""Just Season It" by Mr.Lovenstein"
      +url: "https://telegra.ph/file/b4d3f3329b34794fb3c4c.jpg"
      +body: """
        - Source: [Mastodon](https://mastodon.social/@MrLovenstein/111256100937899359) - [RSS](https://mastodon.social/@MrLovenstein.rss)\n
        - [Tapas](https://tapas.io/episode/1590600) - (Secret Panel) - [RSS](https://tapas.io/rss/series/3346)
        """
      +type: "image"
      +lang: "en"
      +isOc: false
      +hasEmbed: true
      +commentCount: 256
      +favouriteCount: 1532
      +score: 0
      +isAdult: false
      +sticky: false
      +lastActive: DateTime @1700244507 {#9750
        date: 2023-11-17 19:08:27.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +adaAmount: 0
      +tags: null
      +mentions: null
      +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9759 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9761 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9763 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9765 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9767 …}
      +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9769 …}
      +children: []
      -id: 6411
      -titleTs: "'mr.lovenstein':5 'season':2"
      -bodyTs: "'/@mrlovenstein.rss)':9 '/@mrlovenstein/111256100937899359)':5 '/episode/1590600)':13 '/rss/series/3346)':19 'mastodon':2 'mastodon.social':4,8 'mastodon.social/@mrlovenstein.rss)':7 'mastodon.social/@mrlovenstein/111256100937899359)':3 'panel':15 'rss':6,16 'secret':14 'sourc':1 'tapa':10 'tapas.io':12,18 'tapas.io/episode/1590600)':11 'tapas.io/rss/series/3346)':17"
      +cross: false
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +ranking: 1697814168
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://lemm.ee/post/12028713"
      +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697729832 {#9747
        date: 2023-10-19 17:37:12.0 +02:00
      }
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697727768 {#9749
        date: 2023-10-19 17:02:48.0 +02:00
      }
      +__isInitialized__: true
       …2
    }
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2319 …2}
    +image: null
    +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2317 …}
    +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2318 …}
    +body: "It’s funny that you offer correction. UK English makes this distinction, US English doesn’t and uses practice for both. Internationally where many English speakers mix neither usage can really be said to be incorrect. Pedantry fail."
    +lang: "en"
    +isAdult: false
    +favouriteCount: 5
    +score: 0
    +lastActive: DateTime @1697782299 {#2298
      date: 2023-10-20 08:11:39.0 +02:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +tags: null
    +mentions: [
      "@sag@lemm.ee"
      "@tfw_no_toiletpaper@feddit.de"
      "@snausagesinablanket@lemmy.world"
      "@DillyDaily@lemmy.world"
    ]
    +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2313 …}
    +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2292 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2290 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2295 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2283 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2282 …}
    -id: 60721
    -bodyTs: "'correct':7 'distinct':12 'doesn':15 'english':9,14,25 'fail':38 'funni':3 'incorrect':36 'intern':22 'make':10 'mani':24 'mix':27 'neither':28 'offer':6 'pedantri':37 'practic':19 'realli':31 'said':33 'speaker':26 'uk':8 'us':13 'usag':29 'use':18"
    +ranking: 0
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    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemmy.world/comment/4670208"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697782299 {#2311
      date: 2023-10-20 08:11:39.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  +showMagazineName: true
  +showEntryTitle: true
  +showNested: false
  +level: 1
  +canSeeTrash: false
  +dateAsUrl: true
  -requestStack: Symfony\Component\HttpFoundation\RequestStack {#1328 …}
  -authorizationChecker: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\AuthorizationChecker {#931 …}
}
user_inline App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent 14.0 MiB 0.21 ms
Input props
[
  "user" => App\Entity\User {#261
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
    +username: "@michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1719565078 {#269
      date: 2024-06-28 10:57:58.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: false
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: true
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: true
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: true
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: true
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
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    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#248 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#244 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#233 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#191 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#163 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#136 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#106 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#79 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#94 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1793 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1847 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2478 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1871 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1605 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1770 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1844 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1827 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2415 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1794 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2421 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1931 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2401 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1885 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1951 …}
    +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1886 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1924 …}
    -id: 63226
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    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1896 …}
    +apId: "michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
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    +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.world/u/michaelmrose"
    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.world/inbox"
    +apDomain: "lemmy.world"
    +apPreferredUsername: "michaelmrose"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1705515156 {#272
      date: 2024-01-17 19:12:36.0 +01:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
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    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697782301 {#275
      date: 2023-10-20 08:11:41.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  "showAvatar" => false
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent {#9778
  +user: App\Entity\User {#261
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
    +username: "@michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1719565078 {#269
      date: 2024-06-28 10:57:58.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: false
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: true
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: true
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: true
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: true
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
    +isVerified: false
    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#248 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#244 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#233 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#191 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#163 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#136 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#106 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#79 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#94 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1793 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1847 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2478 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1871 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1605 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1770 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1844 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1827 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2415 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1794 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2421 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1931 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2401 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1885 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1951 …}
    +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1886 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1924 …}
    -id: 63226
    -password: "$2y$13$2sAZfN5Hpi2Nzs.wM6/Qa.K7Luw8j7/whTdYRKghYZdwNdole4.nu"
    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1896 …}
    +apId: "michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
    +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.world/u/michaelmrose"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.world/u/michaelmrose"
    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.world/inbox"
    +apDomain: "lemmy.world"
    +apPreferredUsername: "michaelmrose"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1705515156 {#272
      date: 2024-01-17 19:12:36.0 +01:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697782301 {#275
      date: 2023-10-20 08:11:41.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  +showAvatar: false
}
date App\Twig\Components\DateComponent 14.0 MiB 0.17 ms
Input props
[
  "date" => DateTimeImmutable @1697782299 {#2311
    date: 2023-10-20 08:11:39.0 +02:00
  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateComponent {#9863
  +date: DateTimeImmutable @1697782299 {#2311
    date: 2023-10-20 08:11:39.0 +02:00
  }
}
date_edited App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent 14.0 MiB 0.09 ms
Input props
[
  "createdAt" => DateTimeImmutable @1697782299 {#2311
    date: 2023-10-20 08:11:39.0 +02:00
  }
  "editedAt" => null
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent {#9917
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697782299 {#2311
    date: 2023-10-20 08:11:39.0 +02:00
  }
  +editedAt: null
}
magazine_inline App\Twig\Components\MagazineInlineComponent 14.0 MiB 0.13 ms
Input props
[
  "magazine" => Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2319
    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#9828 …}
    +name: "comicstrips@lemmy.world"
    +title: "comicstrips"
    +description: """
      **Comic Strips** is a community for those who love comic stories.\n
      \n
      The rules are simple:\n
      \n
      - The post can be a single image, an image gallery, or a link to a specific comic hosted on another site (the author’s website, for instance).\n
      - The comic must be a complete story.\n
      - If it is an external link, it must be to a specific story, not to the root of the site.\n
      - You may post comics from others or your own.\n
      - If you are posting a comic of your own, a maximum of one per week is allowed (I know, your comics are great, but this rule helps avoid spam).\n
      - The comic can be in any language, but if it’s not in English, OP must include an English translation in the post’s ‘body’ field (note: you don’t need to select a specific language when posting a comic).\n
      - Politeness.\n
      - Adult content is not allowed. This community aims to be fun for people of all ages.\n
      \n
      **Web of links**\n
      \n
      - !linuxmemes@lemmy.world: “I use Arch btw”\n
      - !memes@lemmy.world: memes (you don’t say!)
      """
    +rules: null
    +subscriptionsCount: 1
    +entryCount: 1101
    +entryCommentCount: 12482
    +postCount: 0
    +postCommentCount: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +customCss: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1729550237 {#9825
      date: 2024-10-22 00:37:17.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +tags: null
    +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9829 …}
    +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9831 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9833 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9835 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9837 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9839 …}
    +bans: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9841 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9843 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9845 …}
    +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9847 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9849 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9851 …}
    -id: 45
    +apId: "comicstrips@lemmy.world"
    +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips"
    +apFollowersUrl: "https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips/followers"
    +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.world/inbox"
    +apDomain: "lemmy.world"
    +apPreferredUsername: "comicstrips"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1727428112 {#9826
      date: 2024-09-27 11:08:32.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1696957401 {#9827
      date: 2023-10-10 19:03:21.0 +02:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\MagazineInlineComponent {#9971
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2319
    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#9828 …}
    +name: "comicstrips@lemmy.world"
    +title: "comicstrips"
    +description: """
      **Comic Strips** is a community for those who love comic stories.\n
      \n
      The rules are simple:\n
      \n
      - The post can be a single image, an image gallery, or a link to a specific comic hosted on another site (the author’s website, for instance).\n
      - The comic must be a complete story.\n
      - If it is an external link, it must be to a specific story, not to the root of the site.\n
      - You may post comics from others or your own.\n
      - If you are posting a comic of your own, a maximum of one per week is allowed (I know, your comics are great, but this rule helps avoid spam).\n
      - The comic can be in any language, but if it’s not in English, OP must include an English translation in the post’s ‘body’ field (note: you don’t need to select a specific language when posting a comic).\n
      - Politeness.\n
      - Adult content is not allowed. This community aims to be fun for people of all ages.\n
      \n
      **Web of links**\n
      \n
      - !linuxmemes@lemmy.world: “I use Arch btw”\n
      - !memes@lemmy.world: memes (you don’t say!)
      """
    +rules: null
    +subscriptionsCount: 1
    +entryCount: 1101
    +entryCommentCount: 12482
    +postCount: 0
    +postCommentCount: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +customCss: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1729550237 {#9825
      date: 2024-10-22 00:37:17.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +tags: null
    +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9829 …}
    +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9831 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9833 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9835 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9837 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9839 …}
    +bans: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9841 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9843 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9845 …}
    +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9847 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9849 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9851 …}
    -id: 45
    +apId: "comicstrips@lemmy.world"
    +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips"
    +apFollowersUrl: "https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips/followers"
    +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.world/inbox"
    +apDomain: "lemmy.world"
    +apPreferredUsername: "comicstrips"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1727428112 {#9826
      date: 2024-09-27 11:08:32.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1696957401 {#9827
      date: 2023-10-10 19:03:21.0 +02:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +showTitle: true
  +fullName: false
  +stretchedLink: false
  +showAvatar: false
}
entry_inline App\Twig\Components\EntryInlineComponent 14.0 MiB 0.13 ms
Input props
[
  "entry" => Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2303
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#9755 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2319
      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#9828 …}
      +name: "comicstrips@lemmy.world"
      +title: "comicstrips"
      +description: """
        **Comic Strips** is a community for those who love comic stories.\n
        \n
        The rules are simple:\n
        \n
        - The post can be a single image, an image gallery, or a link to a specific comic hosted on another site (the author’s website, for instance).\n
        - The comic must be a complete story.\n
        - If it is an external link, it must be to a specific story, not to the root of the site.\n
        - You may post comics from others or your own.\n
        - If you are posting a comic of your own, a maximum of one per week is allowed (I know, your comics are great, but this rule helps avoid spam).\n
        - The comic can be in any language, but if it’s not in English, OP must include an English translation in the post’s ‘body’ field (note: you don’t need to select a specific language when posting a comic).\n
        - Politeness.\n
        - Adult content is not allowed. This community aims to be fun for people of all ages.\n
        \n
        **Web of links**\n
        \n
        - !linuxmemes@lemmy.world: “I use Arch btw”\n
        - !memes@lemmy.world: memes (you don’t say!)
        """
      +rules: null
      +subscriptionsCount: 1
      +entryCount: 1101
      +entryCommentCount: 12482
      +postCount: 0
      +postCommentCount: 0
      +isAdult: false
      +customCss: null
      +lastActive: DateTime @1729550237 {#9825
        date: 2024-10-22 00:37:17.0 +02:00
      }
      +markedForDeletionAt: null
      +tags: null
      +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9829 …}
      +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9831 …}
      +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9833 …}
      +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9835 …}
      +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9837 …}
      +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9839 …}
      +bans: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9841 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9843 …}
      +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9845 …}
      +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9847 …}
      +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9849 …}
      +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9851 …}
      -id: 45
      +apId: "comicstrips@lemmy.world"
      +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips"
      +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips"
      +apFollowersUrl: "https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips/followers"
      +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.world/inbox"
      +apDomain: "lemmy.world"
      +apPreferredUsername: "comicstrips"
      +apDiscoverable: true
      +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
      +privateKey: null
      +publicKey: null
      +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1727428112 {#9826
        date: 2024-09-27 11:08:32.0 +02:00
      }
      +apDeletedAt: null
      +apTimeoutAt: null
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1696957401 {#9827
        date: 2023-10-10 19:03:21.0 +02:00
      }
      +__isInitialized__: true
       …2
    }
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#9757 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#9758 …}
    +slug: "Just-Season-It-by-Mr-Lovenstein"
    +title: ""Just Season It" by Mr.Lovenstein"
    +url: "https://telegra.ph/file/b4d3f3329b34794fb3c4c.jpg"
    +body: """
      - Source: [Mastodon](https://mastodon.social/@MrLovenstein/111256100937899359) - [RSS](https://mastodon.social/@MrLovenstein.rss)\n
      - [Tapas](https://tapas.io/episode/1590600) - (Secret Panel) - [RSS](https://tapas.io/rss/series/3346)
      """
    +type: "image"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: true
    +commentCount: 256
    +favouriteCount: 1532
    +score: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +sticky: false
    +lastActive: DateTime @1700244507 {#9750
      date: 2023-11-17 19:08:27.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9759 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9761 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9763 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9765 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9767 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9769 …}
    +children: []
    -id: 6411
    -titleTs: "'mr.lovenstein':5 'season':2"
    -bodyTs: "'/@mrlovenstein.rss)':9 '/@mrlovenstein/111256100937899359)':5 '/episode/1590600)':13 '/rss/series/3346)':19 'mastodon':2 'mastodon.social':4,8 'mastodon.social/@mrlovenstein.rss)':7 'mastodon.social/@mrlovenstein/111256100937899359)':3 'panel':15 'rss':6,16 'secret':14 'sourc':1 'tapa':10 'tapas.io':12,18 'tapas.io/episode/1590600)':11 'tapas.io/rss/series/3346)':17"
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1697814168
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemm.ee/post/12028713"
    +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697729832 {#9747
      date: 2023-10-19 17:37:12.0 +02:00
    }
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697727768 {#9749
      date: 2023-10-19 17:02:48.0 +02:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\EntryInlineComponent {#10026
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2303
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#9755 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2319
      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#9828 …}
      +name: "comicstrips@lemmy.world"
      +title: "comicstrips"
      +description: """
        **Comic Strips** is a community for those who love comic stories.\n
        \n
        The rules are simple:\n
        \n
        - The post can be a single image, an image gallery, or a link to a specific comic hosted on another site (the author’s website, for instance).\n
        - The comic must be a complete story.\n
        - If it is an external link, it must be to a specific story, not to the root of the site.\n
        - You may post comics from others or your own.\n
        - If you are posting a comic of your own, a maximum of one per week is allowed (I know, your comics are great, but this rule helps avoid spam).\n
        - The comic can be in any language, but if it’s not in English, OP must include an English translation in the post’s ‘body’ field (note: you don’t need to select a specific language when posting a comic).\n
        - Politeness.\n
        - Adult content is not allowed. This community aims to be fun for people of all ages.\n
        \n
        **Web of links**\n
        \n
        - !linuxmemes@lemmy.world: “I use Arch btw”\n
        - !memes@lemmy.world: memes (you don’t say!)
        """
      +rules: null
      +subscriptionsCount: 1
      +entryCount: 1101
      +entryCommentCount: 12482
      +postCount: 0
      +postCommentCount: 0
      +isAdult: false
      +customCss: null
      +lastActive: DateTime @1729550237 {#9825
        date: 2024-10-22 00:37:17.0 +02:00
      }
      +markedForDeletionAt: null
      +tags: null
      +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9829 …}
      +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9831 …}
      +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9833 …}
      +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9835 …}
      +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9837 …}
      +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9839 …}
      +bans: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9841 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9843 …}
      +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9845 …}
      +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9847 …}
      +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9849 …}
      +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9851 …}
      -id: 45
      +apId: "comicstrips@lemmy.world"
      +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips"
      +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips"
      +apFollowersUrl: "https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips/followers"
      +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.world/inbox"
      +apDomain: "lemmy.world"
      +apPreferredUsername: "comicstrips"
      +apDiscoverable: true
      +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
      +privateKey: null
      +publicKey: null
      +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1727428112 {#9826
        date: 2024-09-27 11:08:32.0 +02:00
      }
      +apDeletedAt: null
      +apTimeoutAt: null
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1696957401 {#9827
        date: 2023-10-10 19:03:21.0 +02:00
      }
      +__isInitialized__: true
       …2
    }
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#9757 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#9758 …}
    +slug: "Just-Season-It-by-Mr-Lovenstein"
    +title: ""Just Season It" by Mr.Lovenstein"
    +url: "https://telegra.ph/file/b4d3f3329b34794fb3c4c.jpg"
    +body: """
      - Source: [Mastodon](https://mastodon.social/@MrLovenstein/111256100937899359) - [RSS](https://mastodon.social/@MrLovenstein.rss)\n
      - [Tapas](https://tapas.io/episode/1590600) - (Secret Panel) - [RSS](https://tapas.io/rss/series/3346)
      """
    +type: "image"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: true
    +commentCount: 256
    +favouriteCount: 1532
    +score: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +sticky: false
    +lastActive: DateTime @1700244507 {#9750
      date: 2023-11-17 19:08:27.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9759 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9761 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9763 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9765 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9767 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9769 …}
    +children: []
    -id: 6411
    -titleTs: "'mr.lovenstein':5 'season':2"
    -bodyTs: "'/@mrlovenstein.rss)':9 '/@mrlovenstein/111256100937899359)':5 '/episode/1590600)':13 '/rss/series/3346)':19 'mastodon':2 'mastodon.social':4,8 'mastodon.social/@mrlovenstein.rss)':7 'mastodon.social/@mrlovenstein/111256100937899359)':3 'panel':15 'rss':6,16 'secret':14 'sourc':1 'tapa':10 'tapas.io':12,18 'tapas.io/episode/1590600)':11 'tapas.io/rss/series/3346)':17"
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
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    +ranking: 1697814168
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemm.ee/post/12028713"
    +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697729832 {#9747
      date: 2023-10-19 17:37:12.0 +02:00
    }
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697727768 {#9749
      date: 2023-10-19 17:02:48.0 +02:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
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}
user_avatar App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent 14.0 MiB 0.13 ms
Input props
[
  "user" => App\Entity\User {#261
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
    +username: "@michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1719565078 {#269
      date: 2024-06-28 10:57:58.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: false
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: true
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: true
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: true
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: true
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
    +isVerified: false
    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#248 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#244 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#233 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#191 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#163 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#136 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#106 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#79 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#94 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1793 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1847 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2478 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1871 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1605 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1770 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1844 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1827 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2415 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1794 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2421 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1931 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2401 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1885 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1951 …}
    +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1886 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1924 …}
    -id: 63226
    -password: "$2y$13$2sAZfN5Hpi2Nzs.wM6/Qa.K7Luw8j7/whTdYRKghYZdwNdole4.nu"
    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1896 …}
    +apId: "michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
    +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.world/u/michaelmrose"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.world/u/michaelmrose"
    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.world/inbox"
    +apDomain: "lemmy.world"
    +apPreferredUsername: "michaelmrose"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1705515156 {#272
      date: 2024-01-17 19:12:36.0 +01:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697782301 {#275
      date: 2023-10-20 08:11:41.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  "width" => 40
  "height" => 40
  "asLink" => true
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent {#10081
  +width: 40
  +height: 40
  +user: App\Entity\User {#261
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
    +username: "@michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1719565078 {#269
      date: 2024-06-28 10:57:58.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: false
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: true
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: true
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: true
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: true
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    +isBanned: false
    +isVerified: false
    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#248 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#244 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#233 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#191 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#163 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#136 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#106 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#79 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#94 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1793 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1847 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2478 …}
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    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1605 …}
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    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1827 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2415 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1794 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2421 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1931 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2401 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1885 …}
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    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1896 …}
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    }
  }
  +asLink: true
}
vote App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent 14.0 MiB 0.37 ms
Input props
[
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    +user: App\Entity\User {#261
      +avatar: null
      +cover: null
      +email: "michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
      +username: "@michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
      +roles: []
      +followersCount: 0
      +homepage: "front"
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      +lastActive: DateTime @1719565078 {#269
        date: 2024-06-28 10:57:58.0 +02:00
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      +markedForDeletionAt: null
      +fields: null
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      +oauthGoogleId: null
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      +addMentionsEntries: false
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      +spamProtection: true
      +customCss: null
      +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
      +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#248 …}
      +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#244 …}
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      +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#191 …}
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      -totpBackupCodes: []
      -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1896 …}
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      +privateKey: null
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      +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1705515156 {#272
        date: 2024-01-17 19:12:36.0 +01:00
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      +apDeletedAt: null
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      +visibility: "visible             "
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697782301 {#275
        date: 2023-10-20 08:11:41.0 +02:00
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    }
    +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2303
      +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#9755 …}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2319
        +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#9828 …}
        +name: "comicstrips@lemmy.world"
        +title: "comicstrips"
        +description: """
          **Comic Strips** is a community for those who love comic stories.\n
          \n
          The rules are simple:\n
          \n
          - The post can be a single image, an image gallery, or a link to a specific comic hosted on another site (the author’s website, for instance).\n
          - The comic must be a complete story.\n
          - If it is an external link, it must be to a specific story, not to the root of the site.\n
          - You may post comics from others or your own.\n
          - If you are posting a comic of your own, a maximum of one per week is allowed (I know, your comics are great, but this rule helps avoid spam).\n
          - The comic can be in any language, but if it’s not in English, OP must include an English translation in the post’s ‘body’ field (note: you don’t need to select a specific language when posting a comic).\n
          - Politeness.\n
          - Adult content is not allowed. This community aims to be fun for people of all ages.\n
          \n
          **Web of links**\n
          \n
          - !linuxmemes@lemmy.world: “I use Arch btw”\n
          - !memes@lemmy.world: memes (you don’t say!)
          """
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        }
        +markedForDeletionAt: null
        +tags: null
        +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9829 …}
        +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9831 …}
        +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9833 …}
        +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9835 …}
        +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9837 …}
        +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9839 …}
        +bans: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9841 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9843 …}
        +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9845 …}
        +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9847 …}
        +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9849 …}
        +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9851 …}
        -id: 45
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        +apFollowersUrl: "https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips/followers"
        +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.world/inbox"
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        +apDiscoverable: true
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        +privateKey: null
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        +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1727428112 {#9826
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        +apDeletedAt: null
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        +visibility: "visible             "
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        +__isInitialized__: true
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      }
      +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#9757 …}
      +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#9758 …}
      +slug: "Just-Season-It-by-Mr-Lovenstein"
      +title: ""Just Season It" by Mr.Lovenstein"
      +url: "https://telegra.ph/file/b4d3f3329b34794fb3c4c.jpg"
      +body: """
        - Source: [Mastodon](https://mastodon.social/@MrLovenstein/111256100937899359) - [RSS](https://mastodon.social/@MrLovenstein.rss)\n
        - [Tapas](https://tapas.io/episode/1590600) - (Secret Panel) - [RSS](https://tapas.io/rss/series/3346)
        """
      +type: "image"
      +lang: "en"
      +isOc: false
      +hasEmbed: true
      +commentCount: 256
      +favouriteCount: 1532
      +score: 0
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      +lastActive: DateTime @1700244507 {#9750
        date: 2023-11-17 19:08:27.0 +01:00
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      +ip: null
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      +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9759 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9761 …}
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      +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9769 …}
      +children: []
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       …2
    }
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2319 …2}
    +image: null
    +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2317 …}
    +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2318 …}
    +body: "It’s funny that you offer correction. UK English makes this distinction, US English doesn’t and uses practice for both. Internationally where many English speakers mix neither usage can really be said to be incorrect. Pedantry fail."
    +lang: "en"
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      "@snausagesinablanket@lemmy.world"
      "@DillyDaily@lemmy.world"
    ]
    +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2313 …}
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]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent {#10150
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      +email: "michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
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      +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#248 …}
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      +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#191 …}
      +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#163 …}
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      +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1793 …}
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        +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#9828 …}
        +name: "comicstrips@lemmy.world"
        +title: "comicstrips"
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          **Comic Strips** is a community for those who love comic stories.\n
          \n
          The rules are simple:\n
          \n
          - The post can be a single image, an image gallery, or a link to a specific comic hosted on another site (the author’s website, for instance).\n
          - The comic must be a complete story.\n
          - If it is an external link, it must be to a specific story, not to the root of the site.\n
          - You may post comics from others or your own.\n
          - If you are posting a comic of your own, a maximum of one per week is allowed (I know, your comics are great, but this rule helps avoid spam).\n
          - The comic can be in any language, but if it’s not in English, OP must include an English translation in the post’s ‘body’ field (note: you don’t need to select a specific language when posting a comic).\n
          - Politeness.\n
          - Adult content is not allowed. This community aims to be fun for people of all ages.\n
          \n
          **Web of links**\n
          \n
          - !linuxmemes@lemmy.world: “I use Arch btw”\n
          - !memes@lemmy.world: memes (you don’t say!)
          """
        +rules: null
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        }
        +markedForDeletionAt: null
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        +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9829 …}
        +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9831 …}
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        +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9835 …}
        +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9837 …}
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        +bans: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9841 …}
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        +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9847 …}
        +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9849 …}
        +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9851 …}
        -id: 45
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        +apDiscoverable: true
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        +privateKey: null
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        +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1727428112 {#9826
          date: 2024-09-27 11:08:32.0 +02:00
        }
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1696957401 {#9827
          date: 2023-10-10 19:03:21.0 +02:00
        }
        +__isInitialized__: true
         …2
      }
      +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#9757 …}
      +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#9758 …}
      +slug: "Just-Season-It-by-Mr-Lovenstein"
      +title: ""Just Season It" by Mr.Lovenstein"
      +url: "https://telegra.ph/file/b4d3f3329b34794fb3c4c.jpg"
      +body: """
        - Source: [Mastodon](https://mastodon.social/@MrLovenstein/111256100937899359) - [RSS](https://mastodon.social/@MrLovenstein.rss)\n
        - [Tapas](https://tapas.io/episode/1590600) - (Secret Panel) - [RSS](https://tapas.io/rss/series/3346)
        """
      +type: "image"
      +lang: "en"
      +isOc: false
      +hasEmbed: true
      +commentCount: 256
      +favouriteCount: 1532
      +score: 0
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      +lastActive: DateTime @1700244507 {#9750
        date: 2023-11-17 19:08:27.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +adaAmount: 0
      +tags: null
      +mentions: null
      +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9759 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9761 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9763 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9765 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9767 …}
      +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9769 …}
      +children: []
      -id: 6411
      -titleTs: "'mr.lovenstein':5 'season':2"
      -bodyTs: "'/@mrlovenstein.rss)':9 '/@mrlovenstein/111256100937899359)':5 '/episode/1590600)':13 '/rss/series/3346)':19 'mastodon':2 'mastodon.social':4,8 'mastodon.social/@mrlovenstein.rss)':7 'mastodon.social/@mrlovenstein/111256100937899359)':3 'panel':15 'rss':6,16 'secret':14 'sourc':1 'tapa':10 'tapas.io':12,18 'tapas.io/episode/1590600)':11 'tapas.io/rss/series/3346)':17"
      +cross: false
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +ranking: 1697814168
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://lemm.ee/post/12028713"
      +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697729832 {#9747
        date: 2023-10-19 17:37:12.0 +02:00
      }
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697727768 {#9749
        date: 2023-10-19 17:02:48.0 +02:00
      }
      +__isInitialized__: true
       …2
    }
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2319 …2}
    +image: null
    +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2317 …}
    +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2318 …}
    +body: "It’s funny that you offer correction. UK English makes this distinction, US English doesn’t and uses practice for both. Internationally where many English speakers mix neither usage can really be said to be incorrect. Pedantry fail."
    +lang: "en"
    +isAdult: false
    +favouriteCount: 5
    +score: 0
    +lastActive: DateTime @1697782299 {#2298
      date: 2023-10-20 08:11:39.0 +02:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +tags: null
    +mentions: [
      "@sag@lemm.ee"
      "@tfw_no_toiletpaper@feddit.de"
      "@snausagesinablanket@lemmy.world"
      "@DillyDaily@lemmy.world"
    ]
    +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2313 …}
    +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2292 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2290 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2295 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2283 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2282 …}
    -id: 60721
    -bodyTs: "'correct':7 'distinct':12 'doesn':15 'english':9,14,25 'fail':38 'funni':3 'incorrect':36 'intern':22 'make':10 'mani':24 'mix':27 'neither':28 'offer':6 'pedantri':37 'practic':19 'realli':31 'said':33 'speaker':26 'uk':8 'us':13 'usag':29 'use':18"
    +ranking: 0
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    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemmy.world/comment/4670208"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697782299 {#2311
      date: 2023-10-20 08:11:39.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  +formDest: "entry_comment"
  +showDownvote: true
  -cache: Symfony\Component\Cache\Adapter\TraceableTagAwareAdapter {#600 …}
}
boost App\Twig\Components\BoostComponent 14.0 MiB 0.66 ms
Input props
[
  "subject" => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2304
    +user: App\Entity\User {#261
      +avatar: null
      +cover: null
      +email: "michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
      +username: "@michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
      +roles: []
      +followersCount: 0
      +homepage: "front"
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      +lastActive: DateTime @1719565078 {#269
        date: 2024-06-28 10:57:58.0 +02:00
      }
      +markedForDeletionAt: null
      +fields: null
      +oauthGithubId: null
      +oauthGoogleId: null
      +oauthFacebookId: null
      +oauthKeycloakId: null
      +hideAdult: true
      +showSubscribedUsers: true
      +showSubscribedMagazines: true
      +showSubscribedDomains: true
      +preferredLanguages: []
      +featuredMagazines: null
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      +showProfileFollowings: true
      +markNewComments: false
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      +notifyOnNewEntryReply: true
      +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: true
      +notifyOnNewPost: false
      +notifyOnNewPostReply: true
      +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: true
      +addMentionsEntries: false
      +addMentionsPosts: true
      +isBanned: false
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      +isDeleted: false
      +isBot: false
      +spamProtection: true
      +customCss: null
      +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
      +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#248 …}
      +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#244 …}
      +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#233 …}
      +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#191 …}
      +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#163 …}
      +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#136 …}
      +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#106 …}
      +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#79 …}
      +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#94 …}
      +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1793 …}
      +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1847 …}
      +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2478 …}
      +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1871 …}
      +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1605 …}
      +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1770 …}
      +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1844 …}
      +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1827 …}
      +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2415 …}
      +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1794 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2421 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1931 …}
      +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2401 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1885 …}
      +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1951 …}
      +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1886 …}
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      -id: 63226
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      -totpSecret: null
      -totpBackupCodes: []
      -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1896 …}
      +apId: "michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
      +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.world/u/michaelmrose"
      +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.world/u/michaelmrose"
      +apFollowersUrl: null
      +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.world/inbox"
      +apDomain: "lemmy.world"
      +apPreferredUsername: "michaelmrose"
      +apDiscoverable: true
      +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
      +privateKey: null
      +publicKey: null
      +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1705515156 {#272
        date: 2024-01-17 19:12:36.0 +01:00
      }
      +apDeletedAt: null
      +apTimeoutAt: null
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697782301 {#275
        date: 2023-10-20 08:11:41.0 +02:00
      }
    }
    +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2303
      +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#9755 …}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2319
        +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#9828 …}
        +name: "comicstrips@lemmy.world"
        +title: "comicstrips"
        +description: """
          **Comic Strips** is a community for those who love comic stories.\n
          \n
          The rules are simple:\n
          \n
          - The post can be a single image, an image gallery, or a link to a specific comic hosted on another site (the author’s website, for instance).\n
          - The comic must be a complete story.\n
          - If it is an external link, it must be to a specific story, not to the root of the site.\n
          - You may post comics from others or your own.\n
          - If you are posting a comic of your own, a maximum of one per week is allowed (I know, your comics are great, but this rule helps avoid spam).\n
          - The comic can be in any language, but if it’s not in English, OP must include an English translation in the post’s ‘body’ field (note: you don’t need to select a specific language when posting a comic).\n
          - Politeness.\n
          - Adult content is not allowed. This community aims to be fun for people of all ages.\n
          \n
          **Web of links**\n
          \n
          - !linuxmemes@lemmy.world: “I use Arch btw”\n
          - !memes@lemmy.world: memes (you don’t say!)
          """
        +rules: null
        +subscriptionsCount: 1
        +entryCount: 1101
        +entryCommentCount: 12482
        +postCount: 0
        +postCommentCount: 0
        +isAdult: false
        +customCss: null
        +lastActive: DateTime @1729550237 {#9825
          date: 2024-10-22 00:37:17.0 +02:00
        }
        +markedForDeletionAt: null
        +tags: null
        +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9829 …}
        +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9831 …}
        +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9833 …}
        +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9835 …}
        +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9837 …}
        +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9839 …}
        +bans: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9841 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9843 …}
        +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9845 …}
        +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9847 …}
        +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9849 …}
        +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9851 …}
        -id: 45
        +apId: "comicstrips@lemmy.world"
        +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips"
        +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips"
        +apFollowersUrl: "https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips/followers"
        +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.world/inbox"
        +apDomain: "lemmy.world"
        +apPreferredUsername: "comicstrips"
        +apDiscoverable: true
        +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
        +privateKey: null
        +publicKey: null
        +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1727428112 {#9826
          date: 2024-09-27 11:08:32.0 +02:00
        }
        +apDeletedAt: null
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1696957401 {#9827
          date: 2023-10-10 19:03:21.0 +02:00
        }
        +__isInitialized__: true
         …2
      }
      +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#9757 …}
      +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#9758 …}
      +slug: "Just-Season-It-by-Mr-Lovenstein"
      +title: ""Just Season It" by Mr.Lovenstein"
      +url: "https://telegra.ph/file/b4d3f3329b34794fb3c4c.jpg"
      +body: """
        - Source: [Mastodon](https://mastodon.social/@MrLovenstein/111256100937899359) - [RSS](https://mastodon.social/@MrLovenstein.rss)\n
        - [Tapas](https://tapas.io/episode/1590600) - (Secret Panel) - [RSS](https://tapas.io/rss/series/3346)
        """
      +type: "image"
      +lang: "en"
      +isOc: false
      +hasEmbed: true
      +commentCount: 256
      +favouriteCount: 1532
      +score: 0
      +isAdult: false
      +sticky: false
      +lastActive: DateTime @1700244507 {#9750
        date: 2023-11-17 19:08:27.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +adaAmount: 0
      +tags: null
      +mentions: null
      +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9759 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9761 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9763 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9765 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9767 …}
      +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9769 …}
      +children: []
      -id: 6411
      -titleTs: "'mr.lovenstein':5 'season':2"
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      +cross: false
      +upVotes: 0
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      +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697729832 {#9747
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      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697727768 {#9749
        date: 2023-10-19 17:02:48.0 +02:00
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      +__isInitialized__: true
       …2
    }
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2319 …2}
    +image: null
    +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2317 …}
    +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2318 …}
    +body: "It’s funny that you offer correction. UK English makes this distinction, US English doesn’t and uses practice for both. Internationally where many English speakers mix neither usage can really be said to be incorrect. Pedantry fail."
    +lang: "en"
    +isAdult: false
    +favouriteCount: 5
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      date: 2023-10-20 08:11:39.0 +02:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +tags: null
    +mentions: [
      "@sag@lemm.ee"
      "@tfw_no_toiletpaper@feddit.de"
      "@snausagesinablanket@lemmy.world"
      "@DillyDaily@lemmy.world"
    ]
    +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2313 …}
    +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2292 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2290 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2295 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2283 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2282 …}
    -id: 60721
    -bodyTs: "'correct':7 'distinct':12 'doesn':15 'english':9,14,25 'fail':38 'funni':3 'incorrect':36 'intern':22 'make':10 'mani':24 'mix':27 'neither':28 'offer':6 'pedantri':37 'practic':19 'realli':31 'said':33 'speaker':26 'uk':8 'us':13 'usag':29 'use':18"
    +ranking: 0
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697782299 {#2311
      date: 2023-10-20 08:11:39.0 +02:00
    }
  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\BoostComponent {#10207
  +formDest: "entry_comment"
  +subject: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2304
    +user: App\Entity\User {#261
      +avatar: null
      +cover: null
      +email: "michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
      +username: "@michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
      +roles: []
      +followersCount: 0
      +homepage: "front"
      +about: null
      +lastActive: DateTime @1719565078 {#269
        date: 2024-06-28 10:57:58.0 +02:00
      }
      +markedForDeletionAt: null
      +fields: null
      +oauthGithubId: null
      +oauthGoogleId: null
      +oauthFacebookId: null
      +oauthKeycloakId: null
      +hideAdult: true
      +showSubscribedUsers: true
      +showSubscribedMagazines: true
      +showSubscribedDomains: true
      +preferredLanguages: []
      +featuredMagazines: null
      +showProfileSubscriptions: false
      +showProfileFollowings: true
      +markNewComments: false
      +notifyOnNewEntry: false
      +notifyOnNewEntryReply: true
      +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: true
      +notifyOnNewPost: false
      +notifyOnNewPostReply: true
      +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: true
      +addMentionsEntries: false
      +addMentionsPosts: true
      +isBanned: false
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      +isDeleted: false
      +isBot: false
      +spamProtection: true
      +customCss: null
      +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
      +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#248 …}
      +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#244 …}
      +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#233 …}
      +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#191 …}
      +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#163 …}
      +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#136 …}
      +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#106 …}
      +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#79 …}
      +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#94 …}
      +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1793 …}
      +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1847 …}
      +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2478 …}
      +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1871 …}
      +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1605 …}
      +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1770 …}
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      +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1827 …}
      +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2415 …}
      +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1794 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2421 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1931 …}
      +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2401 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1885 …}
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      -totpSecret: null
      -totpBackupCodes: []
      -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1896 …}
      +apId: "michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
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      +privateKey: null
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        date: 2024-01-17 19:12:36.0 +01:00
      }
      +apDeletedAt: null
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      +visibility: "visible             "
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697782301 {#275
        date: 2023-10-20 08:11:41.0 +02:00
      }
    }
    +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2303
      +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#9755 …}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2319
        +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#9828 …}
        +name: "comicstrips@lemmy.world"
        +title: "comicstrips"
        +description: """
          **Comic Strips** is a community for those who love comic stories.\n
          \n
          The rules are simple:\n
          \n
          - The post can be a single image, an image gallery, or a link to a specific comic hosted on another site (the author’s website, for instance).\n
          - The comic must be a complete story.\n
          - If it is an external link, it must be to a specific story, not to the root of the site.\n
          - You may post comics from others or your own.\n
          - If you are posting a comic of your own, a maximum of one per week is allowed (I know, your comics are great, but this rule helps avoid spam).\n
          - The comic can be in any language, but if it’s not in English, OP must include an English translation in the post’s ‘body’ field (note: you don’t need to select a specific language when posting a comic).\n
          - Politeness.\n
          - Adult content is not allowed. This community aims to be fun for people of all ages.\n
          \n
          **Web of links**\n
          \n
          - !linuxmemes@lemmy.world: “I use Arch btw”\n
          - !memes@lemmy.world: memes (you don’t say!)
          """
        +rules: null
        +subscriptionsCount: 1
        +entryCount: 1101
        +entryCommentCount: 12482
        +postCount: 0
        +postCommentCount: 0
        +isAdult: false
        +customCss: null
        +lastActive: DateTime @1729550237 {#9825
          date: 2024-10-22 00:37:17.0 +02:00
        }
        +markedForDeletionAt: null
        +tags: null
        +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9829 …}
        +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9831 …}
        +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9833 …}
        +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9835 …}
        +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9837 …}
        +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9839 …}
        +bans: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9841 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9843 …}
        +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9845 …}
        +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9847 …}
        +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9849 …}
        +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9851 …}
        -id: 45
        +apId: "comicstrips@lemmy.world"
        +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips"
        +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips"
        +apFollowersUrl: "https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips/followers"
        +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.world/inbox"
        +apDomain: "lemmy.world"
        +apPreferredUsername: "comicstrips"
        +apDiscoverable: true
        +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
        +privateKey: null
        +publicKey: null
        +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1727428112 {#9826
          date: 2024-09-27 11:08:32.0 +02:00
        }
        +apDeletedAt: null
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1696957401 {#9827
          date: 2023-10-10 19:03:21.0 +02:00
        }
        +__isInitialized__: true
         …2
      }
      +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#9757 …}
      +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#9758 …}
      +slug: "Just-Season-It-by-Mr-Lovenstein"
      +title: ""Just Season It" by Mr.Lovenstein"
      +url: "https://telegra.ph/file/b4d3f3329b34794fb3c4c.jpg"
      +body: """
        - Source: [Mastodon](https://mastodon.social/@MrLovenstein/111256100937899359) - [RSS](https://mastodon.social/@MrLovenstein.rss)\n
        - [Tapas](https://tapas.io/episode/1590600) - (Secret Panel) - [RSS](https://tapas.io/rss/series/3346)
        """
      +type: "image"
      +lang: "en"
      +isOc: false
      +hasEmbed: true
      +commentCount: 256
      +favouriteCount: 1532
      +score: 0
      +isAdult: false
      +sticky: false
      +lastActive: DateTime @1700244507 {#9750
        date: 2023-11-17 19:08:27.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +adaAmount: 0
      +tags: null
      +mentions: null
      +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9759 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9761 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9763 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9765 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9767 …}
      +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9769 …}
      +children: []
      -id: 6411
      -titleTs: "'mr.lovenstein':5 'season':2"
      -bodyTs: "'/@mrlovenstein.rss)':9 '/@mrlovenstein/111256100937899359)':5 '/episode/1590600)':13 '/rss/series/3346)':19 'mastodon':2 'mastodon.social':4,8 'mastodon.social/@mrlovenstein.rss)':7 'mastodon.social/@mrlovenstein/111256100937899359)':3 'panel':15 'rss':6,16 'secret':14 'sourc':1 'tapa':10 'tapas.io':12,18 'tapas.io/episode/1590600)':11 'tapas.io/rss/series/3346)':17"
      +cross: false
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +ranking: 1697814168
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://lemm.ee/post/12028713"
      +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697729832 {#9747
        date: 2023-10-19 17:37:12.0 +02:00
      }
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697727768 {#9749
        date: 2023-10-19 17:02:48.0 +02:00
      }
      +__isInitialized__: true
       …2
    }
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2319 …2}
    +image: null
    +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2317 …}
    +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2318 …}
    +body: "It’s funny that you offer correction. UK English makes this distinction, US English doesn’t and uses practice for both. Internationally where many English speakers mix neither usage can really be said to be incorrect. Pedantry fail."
    +lang: "en"
    +isAdult: false
    +favouriteCount: 5
    +score: 0
    +lastActive: DateTime @1697782299 {#2298
      date: 2023-10-20 08:11:39.0 +02:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +tags: null
    +mentions: [
      "@sag@lemm.ee"
      "@tfw_no_toiletpaper@feddit.de"
      "@snausagesinablanket@lemmy.world"
      "@DillyDaily@lemmy.world"
    ]
    +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2313 …}
    +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2292 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2290 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2295 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2283 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2282 …}
    -id: 60721
    -bodyTs: "'correct':7 'distinct':12 'doesn':15 'english':9,14,25 'fail':38 'funni':3 'incorrect':36 'intern':22 'make':10 'mani':24 'mix':27 'neither':28 'offer':6 'pedantri':37 'practic':19 'realli':31 'said':33 'speaker':26 'uk':8 'us':13 'usag':29 'use':18"
    +ranking: 0
    +commentCount: 0
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemmy.world/comment/4670208"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697782299 {#2311
      date: 2023-10-20 08:11:39.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  -cache: Symfony\Component\Cache\Adapter\TraceableTagAwareAdapter {#600 …}
}
settings_row_enum App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowEnumComponent 14.0 MiB 0.21 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Sidebar position"
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_GENERAL_SIDEBAR_POSITION"
  "values" => [
    [
      "name" => "Left"
      "value" => "LEFT"
    ]
    [
      "name" => "Right"
      "value" => "RIGHT"
    ]
  ]
  "defaultValue" => "RIGHT"
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowEnumComponent {#10508
  +label: "Sidebar position"
  +help: ""
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_GENERAL_SIDEBAR_POSITION"
  +values: [
    [
      "name" => "Left"
      "value" => "LEFT"
    ]
    [
      "name" => "Right"
      "value" => "RIGHT"
    ]
  ]
  +defaultValue: "RIGHT"
  +reloadRequired: true
}
settings_row_switch App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent 14.0 MiB 0.22 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Dynamic lists"
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_GENERAL_DYNAMIC_LISTS"
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent {#10580
  +label: "Dynamic lists"
  +help: ""
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_GENERAL_DYNAMIC_LISTS"
  +defaultValue: false
  +reloadRequired: true
}
settings_row_switch App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent 14.0 MiB 0.12 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Rounded edges"
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_GENERAL_ROUNDED_EDGES"
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent {#10643
  +label: "Rounded edges"
  +help: ""
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_GENERAL_ROUNDED_EDGES"
  +defaultValue: false
  +reloadRequired: true
}
settings_row_switch App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent 14.0 MiB 0.12 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Infinite scrolling"
  "help" => "Automatically load more content when you reach the bottom of the page."
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_GENERAL_INFINITE_SCROLL"
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent {#10699
  +label: "Infinite scrolling"
  +help: "Automatically load more content when you reach the bottom of the page."
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_GENERAL_INFINITE_SCROLL"
  +defaultValue: false
  +reloadRequired: true
}
settings_row_switch App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent 14.0 MiB 0.12 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Sticky navbar"
  "help" => "The navbar will stick to the top of the page when you scroll down."
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_GENERAL_FIXED_NAVBAR"
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent {#10758
  +label: "Sticky navbar"
  +help: "The navbar will stick to the top of the page when you scroll down."
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_GENERAL_FIXED_NAVBAR"
  +defaultValue: false
  +reloadRequired: true
}
settings_row_switch App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent 14.0 MiB 0.12 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Show top bar"
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_GENERAL_TOPBAR"
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent {#10814
  +label: "Show top bar"
  +help: ""
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_GENERAL_TOPBAR"
  +defaultValue: false
  +reloadRequired: true
}
settings_row_switch App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent 14.0 MiB 0.12 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Turbo mode (experimental)"
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_GENERAL_TURBO"
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent {#10870
  +label: "Turbo mode (experimental)"
  +help: ""
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_GENERAL_TURBO"
  +defaultValue: false
  +reloadRequired: true
}
user_settings_row_switch App\Twig\Components\UserSettingsRowSwitchComponent 14.0 MiB 0.24 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Mark new comments"
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_MARK_NEW_COMMENTS"
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserSettingsRowSwitchComponent {#10928
  +label: "Mark new comments"
  +help: ""
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_MARK_NEW_COMMENTS"
  +defaultValue: false
  +reloadRequired: true
}
settings_row_switch App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent 14.0 MiB 0.14 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Show "Support Us" block"
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_GENERAL_SUPPORT_US_BLOCK"
  "defaultValue" => true
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent {#10991
  +label: "Show "Support Us" block"
  +help: ""
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_GENERAL_SUPPORT_US_BLOCK"
  +defaultValue: true
  +reloadRequired: true
}
user_settings_row_switch App\Twig\Components\UserSettingsRowSwitchComponent 14.0 MiB 0.17 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Show subscribed users"
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_SUB_CHANNEL_USERS"
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserSettingsRowSwitchComponent {#11049
  +label: "Show subscribed users"
  +help: ""
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_SUB_CHANNEL_USERS"
  +defaultValue: false
  +reloadRequired: true
}
user_settings_row_switch App\Twig\Components\UserSettingsRowSwitchComponent 14.0 MiB 0.19 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Show subscribed magazines"
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_SUB_CHANNEL_MAGAZINES"
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserSettingsRowSwitchComponent {#11105
  +label: "Show subscribed magazines"
  +help: ""
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_SUB_CHANNEL_MAGAZINES"
  +defaultValue: false
  +reloadRequired: true
}
user_settings_row_switch App\Twig\Components\UserSettingsRowSwitchComponent 14.0 MiB 0.13 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Show subscribed domains"
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_SUB_CHANNEL_DOMAINS"
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserSettingsRowSwitchComponent {#11161
  +label: "Show subscribed domains"
  +help: ""
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_SUB_CHANNEL_DOMAINS"
  +defaultValue: false
  +reloadRequired: true
}
settings_row_switch App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent 14.0 MiB 0.12 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Auto media preview"
  "help" => "Automatically expand media previews."
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_ENTRIES_SHOW_PREVIEW"
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent {#11217
  +label: "Auto media preview"
  +help: "Automatically expand media previews."
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_ENTRIES_SHOW_PREVIEW"
  +defaultValue: false
  +reloadRequired: true
}
settings_row_switch App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent 14.0 MiB 0.13 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Compact view"
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_ENTRIES_COMPACT"
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent {#11273
  +label: "Compact view"
  +help: ""
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_ENTRIES_COMPACT"
  +defaultValue: false
  +reloadRequired: true
}
settings_row_switch App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent 14.0 MiB 0.12 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Show users’ avatars"
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_ENTRIES_SHOW_USERS_AVATARS"
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent {#11329
  +label: "Show users’ avatars"
  +help: ""
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_ENTRIES_SHOW_USERS_AVATARS"
  +defaultValue: false
  +reloadRequired: true
}
settings_row_switch App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent 14.0 MiB 0.12 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Show magazines’ icons"
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_ENTRIES_SHOW_MAGAZINES_ICONS"
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent {#11385
  +label: "Show magazines’ icons"
  +help: ""
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_ENTRIES_SHOW_MAGAZINES_ICONS"
  +defaultValue: false
  +reloadRequired: true
}
settings_row_switch App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent 14.0 MiB 0.12 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Show thumbnails"
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_ENTRIES_SHOW_THUMBNAILS"
  "defaultValue" => true
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent {#11441
  +label: "Show thumbnails"
  +help: ""
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_ENTRIES_SHOW_THUMBNAILS"
  +defaultValue: true
  +reloadRequired: true
}
settings_row_switch App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent 14.0 MiB 17.39 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Auto media preview"
  "help" => "Automatically expand media previews."
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_POSTS_SHOW_PREVIEW"
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent {#11497
  +label: "Auto media preview"
  +help: "Automatically expand media previews."
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_POSTS_SHOW_PREVIEW"
  +defaultValue: false
  +reloadRequired: true
}
settings_row_switch App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent 14.0 MiB 0.16 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Show users’ avatars"
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_POSTS_SHOW_USERS_AVATARS"
  "defaultValue" => true
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent {#11553
  +label: "Show users’ avatars"
  +help: ""
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_POSTS_SHOW_USERS_AVATARS"
  +defaultValue: true
  +reloadRequired: true
}
settings_row_enum App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowEnumComponent 14.0 MiB 0.15 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Comment reply position"
  "help" => "Display the comment reply form either at the top or bottom of the page. When 'infinite scroll' is enabled the position will always appear at the top."
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_COMMENTS_REPLY_POSITION"
  "values" => [
    [
      "name" => "top"
      "value" => "TOP"
    ]
    [
      "name" => "bottom"
      "value" => "BOTTOM"
    ]
  ]
  "defaultValue" => "TOP"
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowEnumComponent {#11609
  +label: "Comment reply position"
  +help: "Display the comment reply form either at the top or bottom of the page. When 'infinite scroll' is enabled the position will always appear at the top."
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_COMMENTS_REPLY_POSITION"
  +values: [
    [
      "name" => "top"
      "value" => "TOP"
    ]
    [
      "name" => "bottom"
      "value" => "BOTTOM"
    ]
  ]
  +defaultValue: "TOP"
  +reloadRequired: true
}
settings_row_switch App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent 14.0 MiB 0.12 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Show Comment Avatars"
  "help" => "Display/hide user avatars when viewing comments on a single thread or post."
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_COMMENTS_SHOW_USER_AVATAR"
  "defaultValue" => true
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent {#11667
  +label: "Show Comment Avatars"
  +help: "Display/hide user avatars when viewing comments on a single thread or post."
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_COMMENTS_SHOW_USER_AVATAR"
  +defaultValue: true
  +reloadRequired: true
}
user_actions App\Twig\Components\UserActionsComponent 14.0 MiB 0.44 ms
Input props
[
  "user" => App\Entity\User {#261
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
    +username: "@michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1719565078 {#269
      date: 2024-06-28 10:57:58.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: false
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: true
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: true
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: true
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: true
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
    +isVerified: false
    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#248 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#244 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#233 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#191 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#163 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#136 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#106 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#79 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#94 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1793 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1847 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2478 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1871 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1605 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1770 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1844 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1827 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2415 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1794 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2421 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1931 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2401 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1885 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1951 …}
    +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1886 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1924 …}
    -id: 63226
    -password: "$2y$13$2sAZfN5Hpi2Nzs.wM6/Qa.K7Luw8j7/whTdYRKghYZdwNdole4.nu"
    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1896 …}
    +apId: "michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
    +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.world/u/michaelmrose"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.world/u/michaelmrose"
    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.world/inbox"
    +apDomain: "lemmy.world"
    +apPreferredUsername: "michaelmrose"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1705515156 {#272
      date: 2024-01-17 19:12:36.0 +01:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697782301 {#275
      date: 2023-10-20 08:11:41.0 +02:00
    }
  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserActionsComponent {#11743
  +user: App\Entity\User {#261
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
    +username: "@michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1719565078 {#269
      date: 2024-06-28 10:57:58.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: false
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: true
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: true
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: true
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: true
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
    +isVerified: false
    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#248 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#244 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#233 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#191 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#163 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#136 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#106 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#79 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#94 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1793 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1847 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2478 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1871 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1605 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1770 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1844 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1827 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2415 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1794 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2421 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1931 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2401 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1885 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1951 …}
    +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1886 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1924 …}
    -id: 63226
    -password: "$2y$13$2sAZfN5Hpi2Nzs.wM6/Qa.K7Luw8j7/whTdYRKghYZdwNdole4.nu"
    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1896 …}
    +apId: "michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
    +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.world/u/michaelmrose"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.world/u/michaelmrose"
    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.world/inbox"
    +apDomain: "lemmy.world"
    +apPreferredUsername: "michaelmrose"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1705515156 {#272
      date: 2024-01-17 19:12:36.0 +01:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697782301 {#275
      date: 2023-10-20 08:11:41.0 +02:00
    }
  }
}
date App\Twig\Components\DateComponent 14.0 MiB 0.13 ms
Input props
[
  "date" => DateTimeImmutable @1697782301 {#275
    date: 2023-10-20 08:11:41.0 +02:00
  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateComponent {#11804
  +date: DateTimeImmutable @1697782301 {#275
    date: 2023-10-20 08:11:41.0 +02:00
  }
}
related_magazines App\Twig\Components\RelatedMagazinesComponent 14.0 MiB 2.42 ms
Input props
[
  "magazine" => null
  "tag" => null
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\RelatedMagazinesComponent {#11891
  +limit: 4
  +tag: null
  +magazine: null
  +type: "random"
  +title: "random_magazines"
  +refreshedRandom: false
  -repository: App\Repository\MagazineRepository {#2438 …}
  -cache: Symfony\Component\Cache\Adapter\TraceableTagAwareAdapter {#600 …}
  -twig: Twig\Environment {#1252 …}
  -requestStack: Symfony\Component\HttpFoundation\RequestStack {#1328 …}
}
active_users App\Twig\Components\ActiveUsersComponent 14.0 MiB 0.21 ms
Input props
[
  "magazine" => null
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\ActiveUsersComponent {#11959
  +magazine: null
  -userRepository: App\Repository\UserRepository {#603 …}
  -cache: Symfony\Component\Cache\Adapter\TraceableTagAwareAdapter {#600 …}
  -twig: Twig\Environment {#1252 …}
  -requestStack: Symfony\Component\HttpFoundation\RequestStack {#1328 …}
}
related_categories App\Twig\Components\RelatedCategoriesComponent 14.0 MiB 3.41 ms
Input props
[
  "magazine" => null
  "tag" => null
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\RelatedCategoriesComponent {#12018
  +limit: 4
  +tag: null
  +magazine: null
  +type: "random"
  +title: "random_categories"
  +refreshedRandom: false
  -repository: App\Repository\CategoryRepository {#12019 …}
  -cache: Symfony\Component\Cache\Adapter\TraceableTagAwareAdapter {#600 …}
  -twig: Twig\Environment {#1252 …}
  -requestStack: Symfony\Component\HttpFoundation\RequestStack {#1328 …}
}
related_posts App\Twig\Components\RelatedPostsComponent 14.0 MiB 1.34 ms
Input props
[
  "magazine" => null
  "tag" => null
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\RelatedPostsComponent {#12089
  +limit: 4
  +tag: null
  +magazine: null
  +type: "random"
  +post: null
  +title: "random_posts"
  +refreshedRandom: false
  -repository: App\Repository\PostRepository {#12088 …}
  -cache: Symfony\Component\Cache\Adapter\TraceableTagAwareAdapter {#600 …}
  -twig: Twig\Environment {#1252 …}
  -requestStack: Symfony\Component\HttpFoundation\RequestStack {#1328 …}
  -mentionManager: App\Service\MentionManager {#1539 …}
}
related_entries App\Twig\Components\RelatedEntriesComponent 14.0 MiB 2.00 ms
Input props
[
  "magazine" => null
  "tag" => null
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\RelatedEntriesComponent {#12159
  +limit: 4
  +tag: null
  +magazine: null
  +type: "random"
  +entry: null
  +title: "random_entries"
  +refreshedRandom: false
  -repository: App\Repository\EntryRepository {#12158 …}
  -cache: Symfony\Component\Cache\Adapter\TraceableTagAwareAdapter {#600 …}
  -twig: Twig\Environment {#1252 …}
  -requestStack: Symfony\Component\HttpFoundation\RequestStack {#1328 …}
  -mentionManager: App\Service\MentionManager {#1539 …}
}
support_us_block App\Twig\Components\SupportUsBlock 14.0 MiB 0.38 ms
Input props
[]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\SupportUsBlock {#12228
  +subject: ? App\Entity\Contracts\VotableInterface
  +url: ? string
  -twig: Twig\Environment {#1252 …}
  -cache: Symfony\Component\Cache\Adapter\TraceableTagAwareAdapter {#600 …}
  -requestStack: Symfony\Component\HttpFoundation\RequestStack {#1328 …}
  -partnerBlockRepository: App\Repository\PartnerBlockRepository {#12229 …}
}
featured_magazines App\Twig\Components\FeaturedMagazinesComponent 14.0 MiB 1.14 ms
Input props
[
  "magazine" => null
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\FeaturedMagazinesComponent {#12321
  +magazine: null
  -twig: Twig\Environment {#1252 …}
  -repository: App\Repository\MagazineRepository {#2438 …}
}