Symfony Profiler

Security

Token

There is no security token.

Firewall

main Name

Security enabled

Stateless

Configuration

Key	Value
provider	security.user.provider.concrete.app_user_provider
context	main
entry_point	App\Security\KbinAuthenticator
user_checker	App\Security\UserChecker
access_denied_handler	(none)
access_denied_url	(none)
authenticators	[`"two_factor" "remember_me" "App\Security\KbinAuthenticator" "App\Security\FacebookAuthenticator" "App\Security\GoogleAuthenticator" "App\Security\GithubAuthenticator" "App\Security\KeycloakAuthenticator"`]

Listeners

Listener	Duration	Response
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\ChannelListener {#723`-map: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\AccessMap {#722 …} -logger: Monolog\Logger {#783 …} -httpPort: 80 -httpsPort: 443`}	0.00 ms	(none)
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\ContextListener {#706-tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\TokenStorage {#1017 …} -sessionKey: "_security_main" -logger: Monolog\Logger {#783 …} -userProviders: Symfony\Component\DependencyInjection\Argument\RewindableGenerator {#705 …} -dispatcher: Symfony\Component\EventDispatcher\Debug\TraceableEventDispatcher {#747 …} -registered: false -trustResolver: Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authentication\AuthenticationTrustResolver {#780 …} -sessionTrackerEnabler: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage::enableUsageTracking(): void {#703 …}}	0.78 ms	(none)
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\AuthenticatorManagerListener {#584`-authenticatorManager: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Authentication\AuthenticatorManager {#595 …}`}	0.00 ms	(none)
Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Http\Firewall\TwoFactorAccessListener {#582`-twoFactorFirewallConfig: Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\TwoFactor\TwoFactorFirewallConfig {#842 …} -tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage {#1018 …} -twoFactorAccessDecider: Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\TwoFactorAccessDecider {#581 …}`}	0.03 ms	(none)
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\AccessListener {#579`-tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage {#1018 …} -accessDecisionManager: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\TraceableAccessDecisionManager {#937 …} -map: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\AccessMap {#722 …}`}	0.00 ms	(none)
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\LogoutListener {#786`-tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage {#1018 …} -options: [ "csrf_parameter" => "_csrf_token" "csrf_token_id" => "logout" "logout_path" => "app_logout" ] -httpUtils: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\HttpUtils {#841 …} -csrfTokenManager: Symfony\Component\Security\Csrf\CsrfTokenManager {#1015 …} -eventDispatcher: Symfony\Component\EventDispatcher\Debug\TraceableEventDispatcher {#747 …}`}	0.00 ms	(none)

Authenticators

No authenticators have been recorded. Check previous profiles on your authentication endpoint.

Access Decision

affirmative Strategy


"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\AuthenticatedVoter"
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\ExpressionVoter"
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"

#	Voter class
1	"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\AuthenticatedVoter"
2	"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
3	"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
4	"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\ExpressionVoter"
5	"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
6	"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
7	"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
8	"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
9	"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
10	"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
11	"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
12	"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
13	"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
14	"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"

Access decision log


null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1502
  +user: App\Entity\User {#1660 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1848 …}
  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#307
    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#288 …}
    +name: "linux@lemmy.ml"
    +title: "linux"
    +description: """
      From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
      \n
      Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).\n
      \n
      Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.\n
      \n
      ### Rules\n
      \n
      - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
      - No misinformation\n
      - No NSFW content\n
      - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
      \n
      ### Related Communities\n
      \n
      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
      \n
      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
      """
    +rules: null
    +subscriptionsCount: 1
    +entryCount: 1406
    +entryCommentCount: 28632
    +postCount: 6
    +postCommentCount: 214
    +isAdult: false
    +customCss: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1729583542 {#315
      date: 2024-10-22 09:52:22.0 +02:00
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    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +tags: null
    +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#279 …}
    +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#275 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#264 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#222 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#180 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
    +bans: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#159 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#145 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#123 …}
    +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#113 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#102 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#89 …}
    -id: 73
    +apId: "linux@lemmy.ml"
    +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.ml/c/linux"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.ml/c/linux"
    +apFollowersUrl: "https://lemmy.ml/c/linux/followers"
    +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.ml/inbox"
    +apDomain: "lemmy.ml"
    +apPreferredUsername: "linux"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1729583596 {#316
      date: 2024-10-22 09:53:16.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1698929468 {#310
      date: 2023-11-02 13:51:08.0 +01:00
    }
  }
  +image: null
  +parent: null
  +root: null
  +body: """
    Professional software linux still doesn't support:\n
    \n
    Solidworks\n
    \n
    AutoCAD\n
    \n
    any DWG viewer
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 6
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1700911420 {#1838
    date: 2023-11-25 12:23:40.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@aldalire@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2429 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2424 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2477 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2355 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1369 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1636 …}
  -id: 162047
  -bodyTs: "'autocad':9 'doesn':5 'dwg':11 'linux':3 'profession':1 'softwar':2 'solidwork':8 'still':4 'support':7 'viewer':12"
  +ranking: 0
  +commentCount: 0
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://kbin.social/m/linux@lemmy.ml/t/654625/-/comment/3764096"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700911420 {#1396
    date: 2023-11-25 12:23:40.0 +01:00
  }
}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1502
  +user: App\Entity\User {#1660 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1848 …}
  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#307
    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#288 …}
    +name: "linux@lemmy.ml"
    +title: "linux"
    +description: """
      From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
      \n
      Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).\n
      \n
      Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.\n
      \n
      ### Rules\n
      \n
      - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
      - No misinformation\n
      - No NSFW content\n
      - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
      \n
      ### Related Communities\n
      \n
      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
      \n
      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
      """
    +rules: null
    +subscriptionsCount: 1
    +entryCount: 1406
    +entryCommentCount: 28632
    +postCount: 6
    +postCommentCount: 214
    +isAdult: false
    +customCss: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1729583542 {#315
      date: 2024-10-22 09:52:22.0 +02:00
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    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +tags: null
    +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#279 …}
    +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#275 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#264 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#222 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#180 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
    +bans: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#159 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#145 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#123 …}
    +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#113 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#102 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#89 …}
    -id: 73
    +apId: "linux@lemmy.ml"
    +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.ml/c/linux"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.ml/c/linux"
    +apFollowersUrl: "https://lemmy.ml/c/linux/followers"
    +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.ml/inbox"
    +apDomain: "lemmy.ml"
    +apPreferredUsername: "linux"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1729583596 {#316
      date: 2024-10-22 09:53:16.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1698929468 {#310
      date: 2023-11-02 13:51:08.0 +01:00
    }
  }
  +image: null
  +parent: null
  +root: null
  +body: """
    Professional software linux still doesn't support:\n
    \n
    Solidworks\n
    \n
    AutoCAD\n
    \n
    any DWG viewer
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 6
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1700911420 {#1838
    date: 2023-11-25 12:23:40.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@aldalire@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2429 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2424 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2477 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2355 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1369 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1636 …}
  -id: 162047
  -bodyTs: "'autocad':9 'doesn':5 'dwg':11 'linux':3 'profession':1 'softwar':2 'solidwork':8 'still':4 'support':7 'viewer':12"
  +ranking: 0
  +commentCount: 0
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://kbin.social/m/linux@lemmy.ml/t/654625/-/comment/3764096"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700911420 {#1396
    date: 2023-11-25 12:23:40.0 +01:00
  }
}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1502
  +user: App\Entity\User {#1660 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1848 …}
  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#307
    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#288 …}
    +name: "linux@lemmy.ml"
    +title: "linux"
    +description: """
      From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
      \n
      Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).\n
      \n
      Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.\n
      \n
      ### Rules\n
      \n
      - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
      - No misinformation\n
      - No NSFW content\n
      - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
      \n
      ### Related Communities\n
      \n
      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
      \n
      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
      """
    +rules: null
    +subscriptionsCount: 1
    +entryCount: 1406
    +entryCommentCount: 28632
    +postCount: 6
    +postCommentCount: 214
    +isAdult: false
    +customCss: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1729583542 {#315
      date: 2024-10-22 09:52:22.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +tags: null
    +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#279 …}
    +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#275 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#264 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#222 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#180 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#242 …}
    +bans: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#159 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#145 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#123 …}
    +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#113 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#102 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#89 …}
    -id: 73
    +apId: "linux@lemmy.ml"
    +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.ml/c/linux"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.ml/c/linux"
    +apFollowersUrl: "https://lemmy.ml/c/linux/followers"
    +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.ml/inbox"
    +apDomain: "lemmy.ml"
    +apPreferredUsername: "linux"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1729583596 {#316
      date: 2024-10-22 09:53:16.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1698929468 {#310
      date: 2023-11-02 13:51:08.0 +01:00
    }
  }
  +image: null
  +parent: null
  +root: null
  +body: """
    Professional software linux still doesn't support:\n
    \n
    Solidworks\n
    \n
    AutoCAD\n
    \n
    any DWG viewer
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
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  +score: 0
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    date: 2023-11-25 12:23:40.0 +01:00
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    "@aldalire@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2429 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2424 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2477 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2355 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1369 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1636 …}
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  -bodyTs: "'autocad':9 'doesn':5 'dwg':11 'linux':3 'profession':1 'softwar':2 'solidwork':8 'still':4 'support':7 'viewer':12"
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  +visibility: "visible             "
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  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700911420 {#1396
    date: 2023-11-25 12:23:40.0 +01:00
  }
}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1714
  +user: App\Entity\User {#2447 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1735 …}
  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#307
    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#288 …}
    +name: "linux@lemmy.ml"
    +title: "linux"
    +description: """
      From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
      \n
      Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).\n
      \n
      Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.\n
      \n
      ### Rules\n
      \n
      - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
      - No misinformation\n
      - No NSFW content\n
      - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
      \n
      ### Related Communities\n
      \n
      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
      \n
      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
      """
    +rules: null
    +subscriptionsCount: 1
    +entryCount: 1406
    +entryCommentCount: 28632
    +postCount: 6
    +postCommentCount: 214
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    +customCss: null
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      date: 2024-10-22 09:52:22.0 +02:00
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    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +tags: null
    +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#279 …}
    +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#275 …}
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    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#145 …}
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    +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#113 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#102 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#89 …}
    -id: 73
    +apId: "linux@lemmy.ml"
    +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.ml/c/linux"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.ml/c/linux"
    +apFollowersUrl: "https://lemmy.ml/c/linux/followers"
    +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.ml/inbox"
    +apDomain: "lemmy.ml"
    +apPreferredUsername: "linux"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
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    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1729583596 {#316
      date: 2024-10-22 09:53:16.0 +02:00
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    +apDeletedAt: null
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    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1698929468 {#310
      date: 2023-11-02 13:51:08.0 +01:00
    }
  }
  +image: null
  +parent: null
  +root: null
  +body: "I want to like nixos but the documentation is trash."
  +lang: "en"
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  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1700911324 {#1728
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  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@BastingChemina@slrpnk.net"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1720 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1717 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1741 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1707 …}
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null
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      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
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      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
      \n
      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
      """
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
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      \n
      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
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      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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      \n
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      \n
      - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
      - No misinformation\n
      - No NSFW content\n
      - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
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      \n
      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
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      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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    That is why I never switched to Linux. I mean, it is over 30 years now and it still doesn’t do everything. Sure it does some cool stuff—but not “everything” I could do before. What is taking them so long?\n
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      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
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      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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    That is why I never switched to Linux. I mean, it is over 30 years now and it still doesn’t do everything. Sure it does some cool stuff—but not “everything” I could do before. What is taking them so long?\n
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
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      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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      That is why I never switched to Linux. I mean, it is over 30 years now and it still doesn’t do everything. Sure it does some cool stuff—but not “everything” I could do before. What is taking them so long?\n
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    “Linux” is not an entity with well defined goals, it’s a community that mostly does whatever it wants. That has the fortunate side effect of producing labors of love in software, that prove really useful in the real world. But it also ignores things like user experience, which affect things like the desktop the most.\n
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      \n
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      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
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      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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      That is why I never switched to Linux. I mean, it is over 30 years now and it still doesn’t do everything. Sure it does some cool stuff—but not “everything” I could do before. What is taking them so long?\n
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    “Linux” is not an entity with well defined goals, it’s a community that mostly does whatever it wants. That has the fortunate side effect of producing labors of love in software, that prove really useful in the real world. But it also ignores things like user experience, which affect things like the desktop the most.\n
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      \n
      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
      \n
      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
      """
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          As someone with 0 investment in this whole ecosystem, I saw and perused this article like a week ago, and my immediate impression was “Why is this guy constantly saying ‘Wayland breaks XXXXX’? Wayland isn’t breaking anything, it’s new tech. Wayland has certain features, or it doesn’t or doesn’t yet. The only folks breaking anything are those swapping use of X with Wayland, within various apps or tech stacks, potentially prematurely, where Wayland doesn’t yet have the full set of features needed.”\n
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      That is why I never switched to Linux. I mean, it is over 30 years now and it still doesn’t do everything. Sure it does some cool stuff—but not “everything” I could do before. What is taking them so long?\n
      \n
      I mean, really great point.
      """
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    “Linux” is not an entity with well defined goals, it’s a community that mostly does whatever it wants. That has the fortunate side effect of producing labors of love in software, that prove really useful in the real world. But it also ignores things like user experience, which affect things like the desktop the most.\n
    \n
    On Linux the user is a second-class citizen, because worth in the community is determined by how much a person contributes (in code, testing, artwork, documentation etc.)\n
    \n
    The Linux mindset is best expressed by a quote from Simon Travaglia (which I paraphrase because I don’t remember it verbatim): “We’re tasked with the well-being of the servers, not the users. They’re lucky we even let them log in since users technically *upset* the smooth operation of the servers.”
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
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      From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
      \n
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      \n
      - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
      - No misinformation\n
      - No NSFW content\n
      - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
      \n
      ### Related Communities\n
      \n
      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
      \n
      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
      """
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          As someone with 0 investment in this whole ecosystem, I saw and perused this article like a week ago, and my immediate impression was “Why is this guy constantly saying ‘Wayland breaks XXXXX’? Wayland isn’t breaking anything, it’s new tech. Wayland has certain features, or it doesn’t or doesn’t yet. The only folks breaking anything are those swapping use of X with Wayland, within various apps or tech stacks, potentially prematurely, where Wayland doesn’t yet have the full set of features needed.”\n
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      That is why I never switched to Linux. I mean, it is over 30 years now and it still doesn’t do everything. Sure it does some cool stuff—but not “everything” I could do before. What is taking them so long?\n
      \n
      I mean, really great point.
      """
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      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
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      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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      - No misinformation\n
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      \n
      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
      \n
      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
      """
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      As someone with 0 investment in this whole ecosystem, I saw and perused this article like a week ago, and my immediate impression was “Why is this guy constantly saying ‘Wayland breaks XXXXX’? Wayland isn’t breaking anything, it’s new tech. Wayland has certain features, or it doesn’t or doesn’t yet. The only folks breaking anything are those swapping use of X with Wayland, within various apps or tech stacks, potentially prematurely, where Wayland doesn’t yet have the full set of features needed.”\n
      \n
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      """
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    It feels like “English is broken because my friend only knows German.” to me. English works just fine. Teach your friend English.\n
    \n
    English is Wayland. German is X11. Friend is software.
    """
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      \n
      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
      \n
      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
      """
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      As someone with 0 investment in this whole ecosystem, I saw and perused this article like a week ago, and my immediate impression was “Why is this guy constantly saying ‘Wayland breaks XXXXX’? Wayland isn’t breaking anything, it’s new tech. Wayland has certain features, or it doesn’t or doesn’t yet. The only folks breaking anything are those swapping use of X with Wayland, within various apps or tech stacks, potentially prematurely, where Wayland doesn’t yet have the full set of features needed.”\n
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    It feels like “English is broken because my friend only knows German.” to me. English works just fine. Teach your friend English.\n
    \n
    English is Wayland. German is X11. Friend is software.
    """
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      From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
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      \n
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      \n
      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
      \n
      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
      """
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      As someone with 0 investment in this whole ecosystem, I saw and perused this article like a week ago, and my immediate impression was “Why is this guy constantly saying ‘Wayland breaks XXXXX’? Wayland isn’t breaking anything, it’s new tech. Wayland has certain features, or it doesn’t or doesn’t yet. The only folks breaking anything are those swapping use of X with Wayland, within various apps or tech stacks, potentially prematurely, where Wayland doesn’t yet have the full set of features needed.”\n
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    It feels like “English is broken because my friend only knows German.” to me. English works just fine. Teach your friend English.\n
    \n
    English is Wayland. German is X11. Friend is software.
    """
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
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      \n
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      \n
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      \n
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      - No misinformation\n
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      \n
      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
      \n
      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
      """
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      +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#307}
      +image: null
      +parent: null
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      +body: """
        As someone with 0 investment in this whole ecosystem, I saw and perused this article like a week ago, and my immediate impression was “Why is this guy constantly saying ‘Wayland breaks XXXXX’? Wayland isn’t breaking anything, it’s new tech. Wayland has certain features, or it doesn’t or doesn’t yet. The only folks breaking anything are those swapping use of X with Wayland, within various apps or tech stacks, potentially prematurely, where Wayland doesn’t yet have the full set of features needed.”\n
        \n
        Whoever this is seems to have a really poor understanding of long-term software development, despite being way more invested in it than I am.
        """
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      It feels like “English is broken because my friend only knows German.” to me. English works just fine. Teach your friend English.\n
      \n
      English is Wayland. German is X11. Friend is software.
      """
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  }
  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1382}
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    You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
    \n
    Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
    """
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      From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
      \n
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      \n
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      \n
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      \n
      - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
      - No misinformation\n
      - No NSFW content\n
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      \n
      ### Related Communities\n
      \n
      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
      \n
      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
      """
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        As someone with 0 investment in this whole ecosystem, I saw and perused this article like a week ago, and my immediate impression was “Why is this guy constantly saying ‘Wayland breaks XXXXX’? Wayland isn’t breaking anything, it’s new tech. Wayland has certain features, or it doesn’t or doesn’t yet. The only folks breaking anything are those swapping use of X with Wayland, within various apps or tech stacks, potentially prematurely, where Wayland doesn’t yet have the full set of features needed.”\n
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    +body: """
      It feels like “English is broken because my friend only knows German.” to me. English works just fine. Teach your friend English.\n
      \n
      English is Wayland. German is X11. Friend is software.
      """
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  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1382}
  +body: """
    You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
    \n
    Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
    """
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
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      From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
      \n
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      \n
      Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.\n
      \n
      ### Rules\n
      \n
      - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
      - No misinformation\n
      - No NSFW content\n
      - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
      \n
      ### Related Communities\n
      \n
      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
      \n
      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
      """
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        As someone with 0 investment in this whole ecosystem, I saw and perused this article like a week ago, and my immediate impression was “Why is this guy constantly saying ‘Wayland breaks XXXXX’? Wayland isn’t breaking anything, it’s new tech. Wayland has certain features, or it doesn’t or doesn’t yet. The only folks breaking anything are those swapping use of X with Wayland, within various apps or tech stacks, potentially prematurely, where Wayland doesn’t yet have the full set of features needed.”\n
        \n
        Whoever this is seems to have a really poor understanding of long-term software development, despite being way more invested in it than I am.
        """
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      It feels like “English is broken because my friend only knows German.” to me. English works just fine. Teach your friend English.\n
      \n
      English is Wayland. German is X11. Friend is software.
      """
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    You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
    \n
    Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
    """
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
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      \n
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      \n
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      - No misinformation\n
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      \n
      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
      \n
      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
      """
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          As someone with 0 investment in this whole ecosystem, I saw and perused this article like a week ago, and my immediate impression was “Why is this guy constantly saying ‘Wayland breaks XXXXX’? Wayland isn’t breaking anything, it’s new tech. Wayland has certain features, or it doesn’t or doesn’t yet. The only folks breaking anything are those swapping use of X with Wayland, within various apps or tech stacks, potentially prematurely, where Wayland doesn’t yet have the full set of features needed.”\n
          \n
          Whoever this is seems to have a really poor understanding of long-term software development, despite being way more invested in it than I am.
          """
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      +body: """
        It feels like “English is broken because my friend only knows German.” to me. English works just fine. Teach your friend English.\n
        \n
        English is Wayland. German is X11. Friend is software.
        """
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    +body: """
      You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
      \n
      Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
      """
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      "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
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  +body: """
    You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
    \n
    The Linux ecosystem is not the product of a giant corporation. It is highly distributed and both built and promoted by multiple players with many different goals and interests.\n
    \n
    The people actually building the ecosystem have aligned almost completely on Wayland. The strong implication is that X was not working for them.\n
    \n
    Distributions have been slower to move but that is happening now. You can look at this as forcing users to move. My guess is that it is more a case of pleasing some uses and frustrating others where more users want what Wayland provides than miss what it doesn’t.\n
    \n
    It is always painful to be a laggard during a technology transition. There is usually a period where the new tech becomes common before it does what you want. That is just what technology transitions look like. When that happens, the problem is that the majority is perfectly happy and maybe happier than ever. That is why things happen when they do.
    """
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
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      From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
      \n
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      \n
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      \n
      ### Rules\n
      \n
      - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
      - No misinformation\n
      - No NSFW content\n
      - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
      \n
      ### Related Communities\n
      \n
      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
      \n
      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
      """
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        +body: """
          As someone with 0 investment in this whole ecosystem, I saw and perused this article like a week ago, and my immediate impression was “Why is this guy constantly saying ‘Wayland breaks XXXXX’? Wayland isn’t breaking anything, it’s new tech. Wayland has certain features, or it doesn’t or doesn’t yet. The only folks breaking anything are those swapping use of X with Wayland, within various apps or tech stacks, potentially prematurely, where Wayland doesn’t yet have the full set of features needed.”\n
          \n
          Whoever this is seems to have a really poor understanding of long-term software development, despite being way more invested in it than I am.
          """
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        It feels like “English is broken because my friend only knows German.” to me. English works just fine. Teach your friend English.\n
        \n
        English is Wayland. German is X11. Friend is software.
        """
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      You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
      \n
      Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
      """
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    You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
    \n
    The Linux ecosystem is not the product of a giant corporation. It is highly distributed and both built and promoted by multiple players with many different goals and interests.\n
    \n
    The people actually building the ecosystem have aligned almost completely on Wayland. The strong implication is that X was not working for them.\n
    \n
    Distributions have been slower to move but that is happening now. You can look at this as forcing users to move. My guess is that it is more a case of pleasing some uses and frustrating others where more users want what Wayland provides than miss what it doesn’t.\n
    \n
    It is always painful to be a laggard during a technology transition. There is usually a period where the new tech becomes common before it does what you want. That is just what technology transitions look like. When that happens, the problem is that the majority is perfectly happy and maybe happier than ever. That is why things happen when they do.
    """
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#3258
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      From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
      \n
      Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).\n
      \n
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      \n
      ### Rules\n
      \n
      - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
      - No misinformation\n
      - No NSFW content\n
      - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
      \n
      ### Related Communities\n
      \n
      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
      \n
      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
      """
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          As someone with 0 investment in this whole ecosystem, I saw and perused this article like a week ago, and my immediate impression was “Why is this guy constantly saying ‘Wayland breaks XXXXX’? Wayland isn’t breaking anything, it’s new tech. Wayland has certain features, or it doesn’t or doesn’t yet. The only folks breaking anything are those swapping use of X with Wayland, within various apps or tech stacks, potentially prematurely, where Wayland doesn’t yet have the full set of features needed.”\n
          \n
          Whoever this is seems to have a really poor understanding of long-term software development, despite being way more invested in it than I am.
          """
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        It feels like “English is broken because my friend only knows German.” to me. English works just fine. Teach your friend English.\n
        \n
        English is Wayland. German is X11. Friend is software.
        """
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      You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
      \n
      Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
      """
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  +body: """
    You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
    \n
    The Linux ecosystem is not the product of a giant corporation. It is highly distributed and both built and promoted by multiple players with many different goals and interests.\n
    \n
    The people actually building the ecosystem have aligned almost completely on Wayland. The strong implication is that X was not working for them.\n
    \n
    Distributions have been slower to move but that is happening now. You can look at this as forcing users to move. My guess is that it is more a case of pleasing some uses and frustrating others where more users want what Wayland provides than miss what it doesn’t.\n
    \n
    It is always painful to be a laggard during a technology transition. There is usually a period where the new tech becomes common before it does what you want. That is just what technology transitions look like. When that happens, the problem is that the majority is perfectly happy and maybe happier than ever. That is why things happen when they do.
    """
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#3339
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    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#288 …}
    +name: "linux@lemmy.ml"
    +title: "linux"
    +description: """
      From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
      \n
      Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).\n
      \n
      Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.\n
      \n
      ### Rules\n
      \n
      - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
      - No misinformation\n
      - No NSFW content\n
      - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
      \n
      ### Related Communities\n
      \n
      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
      \n
      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
      """
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          +image: null
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          +body: """
            As someone with 0 investment in this whole ecosystem, I saw and perused this article like a week ago, and my immediate impression was “Why is this guy constantly saying ‘Wayland breaks XXXXX’? Wayland isn’t breaking anything, it’s new tech. Wayland has certain features, or it doesn’t or doesn’t yet. The only folks breaking anything are those swapping use of X with Wayland, within various apps or tech stacks, potentially prematurely, where Wayland doesn’t yet have the full set of features needed.”\n
            \n
            Whoever this is seems to have a really poor understanding of long-term software development, despite being way more invested in it than I am.
            """
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        +body: """
          It feels like “English is broken because my friend only knows German.” to me. English works just fine. Teach your friend English.\n
          \n
          English is Wayland. German is X11. Friend is software.
          """
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          "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
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          date: 2023-11-22 20:39:14.0 +01:00
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      +body: """
        You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
        \n
        Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
        """
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        "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
        "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
      ]
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        date: 2023-11-19 03:09:37.0 +01:00
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    +body: """
      You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
      \n
      The Linux ecosystem is not the product of a giant corporation. It is highly distributed and both built and promoted by multiple players with many different goals and interests.\n
      \n
      The people actually building the ecosystem have aligned almost completely on Wayland. The strong implication is that X was not working for them.\n
      \n
      Distributions have been slower to move but that is happening now. You can look at this as forcing users to move. My guess is that it is more a case of pleasing some uses and frustrating others where more users want what Wayland provides than miss what it doesn’t.\n
      \n
      It is always painful to be a laggard during a technology transition. There is usually a period where the new tech becomes common before it does what you want. That is just what technology transitions look like. When that happens, the problem is that the majority is perfectly happy and maybe happier than ever. That is why things happen when they do.
      """
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      date: 2023-11-19 17:18:38.0 +01:00
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  +body: """
    > You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
    \n
    All I see is a rift in the community over one side pushing software that’s beta-quality at best, and acting very arrogant and dismissive towards real adoption impediments.\n
    \n
    Which is par for the course for Linux, naturally, but “it’s happening” is wishful thinking at this stage. At this rate and with this attitude it will take at least another 5 years.\n
    \n
    Wayland’s worst enemy is its own fans.
    """
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    "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    "@LeFantome@programming.dev"
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
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      From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
      \n
      Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).\n
      \n
      Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.\n
      \n
      ### Rules\n
      \n
      - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
      - No misinformation\n
      - No NSFW content\n
      - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
      \n
      ### Related Communities\n
      \n
      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
      \n
      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
      """
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          +body: """
            As someone with 0 investment in this whole ecosystem, I saw and perused this article like a week ago, and my immediate impression was “Why is this guy constantly saying ‘Wayland breaks XXXXX’? Wayland isn’t breaking anything, it’s new tech. Wayland has certain features, or it doesn’t or doesn’t yet. The only folks breaking anything are those swapping use of X with Wayland, within various apps or tech stacks, potentially prematurely, where Wayland doesn’t yet have the full set of features needed.”\n
            \n
            Whoever this is seems to have a really poor understanding of long-term software development, despite being way more invested in it than I am.
            """
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          It feels like “English is broken because my friend only knows German.” to me. English works just fine. Teach your friend English.\n
          \n
          English is Wayland. German is X11. Friend is software.
          """
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        }
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          date: 2023-11-19 00:06:25.0 +01:00
        }
      }
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1382}
      +body: """
        You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
        \n
        Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
        """
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        "@theshatterstone54@feddit.uk"
        "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
        "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
      ]
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        date: 2023-11-19 03:09:37.0 +01:00
      }
    }
    +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1382}
    +body: """
      You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
      \n
      The Linux ecosystem is not the product of a giant corporation. It is highly distributed and both built and promoted by multiple players with many different goals and interests.\n
      \n
      The people actually building the ecosystem have aligned almost completely on Wayland. The strong implication is that X was not working for them.\n
      \n
      Distributions have been slower to move but that is happening now. You can look at this as forcing users to move. My guess is that it is more a case of pleasing some uses and frustrating others where more users want what Wayland provides than miss what it doesn’t.\n
      \n
      It is always painful to be a laggard during a technology transition. There is usually a period where the new tech becomes common before it does what you want. That is just what technology transitions look like. When that happens, the problem is that the majority is perfectly happy and maybe happier than ever. That is why things happen when they do.
      """
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      "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
      "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
      "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    ]
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      date: 2023-11-19 17:18:38.0 +01:00
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  }
  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1382}
  +body: """
    > You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
    \n
    All I see is a rift in the community over one side pushing software that’s beta-quality at best, and acting very arrogant and dismissive towards real adoption impediments.\n
    \n
    Which is par for the course for Linux, naturally, but “it’s happening” is wishful thinking at this stage. At this rate and with this attitude it will take at least another 5 years.\n
    \n
    Wayland’s worst enemy is its own fans.
    """
  +lang: "en"
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    "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
    "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
    "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    "@LeFantome@programming.dev"
  ]
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#3339
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#3187 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1401 …}
  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#307
    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#288 …}
    +name: "linux@lemmy.ml"
    +title: "linux"
    +description: """
      From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
      \n
      Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).\n
      \n
      Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.\n
      \n
      ### Rules\n
      \n
      - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
      - No misinformation\n
      - No NSFW content\n
      - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
      \n
      ### Related Communities\n
      \n
      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
      \n
      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
      """
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      date: 2024-10-22 09:52:22.0 +02:00
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      date: 2024-10-22 09:53:16.0 +02:00
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      date: 2023-11-02 13:51:08.0 +01:00
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  }
  +image: null
  +parent: App\Entity\EntryComment {#3258
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#3168 …}
    +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1401 …}
    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#307}
    +image: null
    +parent: App\Entity\EntryComment {#3186
      +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#3187 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1401 …}
      +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#307}
      +image: null
      +parent: App\Entity\EntryComment {#3054
        +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#3053 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1401 …}
        +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#307}
        +image: null
        +parent: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1382
          +user: App\Entity\User {#2018 …}
          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1401 …}
          +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#307}
          +image: null
          +parent: null
          +root: null
          +body: """
            As someone with 0 investment in this whole ecosystem, I saw and perused this article like a week ago, and my immediate impression was “Why is this guy constantly saying ‘Wayland breaks XXXXX’? Wayland isn’t breaking anything, it’s new tech. Wayland has certain features, or it doesn’t or doesn’t yet. The only folks breaking anything are those swapping use of X with Wayland, within various apps or tech stacks, potentially prematurely, where Wayland doesn’t yet have the full set of features needed.”\n
            \n
            Whoever this is seems to have a really poor understanding of long-term software development, despite being way more invested in it than I am.
            """
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            date: 2023-11-25 12:08:32.0 +01:00
          }
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            "@theshatterstone54@feddit.uk"
          ]
          +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1404 …}
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            date: 2023-11-21 00:40:35.0 +01:00
          }
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            date: 2023-11-17 17:49:20.0 +01:00
          }
        }
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1382}
        +body: """
          It feels like “English is broken because my friend only knows German.” to me. English works just fine. Teach your friend English.\n
          \n
          English is Wayland. German is X11. Friend is software.
          """
        +lang: "en"
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          "@theshatterstone54@feddit.uk"
          "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3052 …}
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        -id: 138325
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          date: 2023-11-22 20:39:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700348785 {#3055
          date: 2023-11-19 00:06:25.0 +01:00
        }
      }
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1382}
      +body: """
        You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
        \n
        Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
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        date: 2023-11-19 03:09:37.0 +01:00
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        "@theshatterstone54@feddit.uk"
        "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
        "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3188 …}
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        date: 2023-11-19 03:09:37.0 +01:00
      }
    }
    +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1382}
    +body: """
      You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
      \n
      The Linux ecosystem is not the product of a giant corporation. It is highly distributed and both built and promoted by multiple players with many different goals and interests.\n
      \n
      The people actually building the ecosystem have aligned almost completely on Wayland. The strong implication is that X was not working for them.\n
      \n
      Distributions have been slower to move but that is happening now. You can look at this as forcing users to move. My guess is that it is more a case of pleasing some uses and frustrating others where more users want what Wayland provides than miss what it doesn’t.\n
      \n
      It is always painful to be a laggard during a technology transition. There is usually a period where the new tech becomes common before it does what you want. That is just what technology transitions look like. When that happens, the problem is that the majority is perfectly happy and maybe happier than ever. That is why things happen when they do.
      """
    +lang: "en"
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      date: 2023-11-19 17:18:38.0 +01:00
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      "@theshatterstone54@feddit.uk"
      "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
      "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
      "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    ]
    +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3254 …}
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    +ranking: 0
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    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700410718 {#3262
      date: 2023-11-19 17:18:38.0 +01:00
    }
  }
  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1382}
  +body: """
    > You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
    \n
    All I see is a rift in the community over one side pushing software that’s beta-quality at best, and acting very arrogant and dismissive towards real adoption impediments.\n
    \n
    Which is par for the course for Linux, naturally, but “it’s happening” is wishful thinking at this stage. At this rate and with this attitude it will take at least another 5 years.\n
    \n
    Wayland’s worst enemy is its own fans.
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
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    date: 2023-11-19 22:48:05.0 +01:00
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    "@theshatterstone54@feddit.uk"
    "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
    "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
    "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    "@LeFantome@programming.dev"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3340 …}
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#3376
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#3168 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1401 …}
  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#307
    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#288 …}
    +name: "linux@lemmy.ml"
    +title: "linux"
    +description: """
      From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
      \n
      Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).\n
      \n
      Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.\n
      \n
      ### Rules\n
      \n
      - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
      - No misinformation\n
      - No NSFW content\n
      - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
      \n
      ### Related Communities\n
      \n
      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
      \n
      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
      """
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            +body: """
              As someone with 0 investment in this whole ecosystem, I saw and perused this article like a week ago, and my immediate impression was “Why is this guy constantly saying ‘Wayland breaks XXXXX’? Wayland isn’t breaking anything, it’s new tech. Wayland has certain features, or it doesn’t or doesn’t yet. The only folks breaking anything are those swapping use of X with Wayland, within various apps or tech stacks, potentially prematurely, where Wayland doesn’t yet have the full set of features needed.”\n
              \n
              Whoever this is seems to have a really poor understanding of long-term software development, despite being way more invested in it than I am.
              """
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          +body: """
            It feels like “English is broken because my friend only knows German.” to me. English works just fine. Teach your friend English.\n
            \n
            English is Wayland. German is X11. Friend is software.
            """
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        +body: """
          You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
          \n
          Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
          """
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        You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
        \n
        The Linux ecosystem is not the product of a giant corporation. It is highly distributed and both built and promoted by multiple players with many different goals and interests.\n
        \n
        The people actually building the ecosystem have aligned almost completely on Wayland. The strong implication is that X was not working for them.\n
        \n
        Distributions have been slower to move but that is happening now. You can look at this as forcing users to move. My guess is that it is more a case of pleasing some uses and frustrating others where more users want what Wayland provides than miss what it doesn’t.\n
        \n
        It is always painful to be a laggard during a technology transition. There is usually a period where the new tech becomes common before it does what you want. That is just what technology transitions look like. When that happens, the problem is that the majority is perfectly happy and maybe happier than ever. That is why things happen when they do.
        """
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    +body: """
      > You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
      \n
      All I see is a rift in the community over one side pushing software that’s beta-quality at best, and acting very arrogant and dismissive towards real adoption impediments.\n
      \n
      Which is par for the course for Linux, naturally, but “it’s happening” is wishful thinking at this stage. At this rate and with this attitude it will take at least another 5 years.\n
      \n
      Wayland’s worst enemy is its own fans.
      """
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      "@LeFantome@programming.dev"
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  +body: """
    As I like to stay evidence driven, I should say that I use XFCE mostly and, as such, am not typically a Wayland user on most of my machines. I will let other readers decide how that impacts the indictment “Wayland’s worst enemy is its fans”.\n
    \n
    I am not sure what the “sides” are here either. If I was to try to draw that line, it seems to be between people providing software and those using it. Because the people writing the software are moving to Wayland.\n
    \n
    Which leads us to “at this rate”. GNOME and KDE will both be Wayland only next year. What percentage of the Linux Desktop population do we think that represents right there? Enlightenment has already moved. Ubuntu uses Wayland. Red Hat uses Wayland. The Steam Deck uses Wayland. XFCE and Cinnamon will move next year. Wayland only window managers are appearing and gaining in popularity. What percentage of the Linux Desktop universe are you expecting will still be using X at the end of 2025?\n
    \n
    Some people may wait 5 years. Then again, Ref Hat will have stopped contribute to X by then and, as I said, nobody is rushing in to dev X. How long is running X going to stay viable?\n
    \n
    I would say that BSD may take a little longer but they are starting to move too.\n
    \n
    Liking Wayland or not has nothing to do with any of these facts.
    """
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      \n
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      \n
      Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.\n
      \n
      ### Rules\n
      \n
      - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
      - No misinformation\n
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      - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
      \n
      ### Related Communities\n
      \n
      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
      \n
      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
      """
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            +body: """
              As someone with 0 investment in this whole ecosystem, I saw and perused this article like a week ago, and my immediate impression was “Why is this guy constantly saying ‘Wayland breaks XXXXX’? Wayland isn’t breaking anything, it’s new tech. Wayland has certain features, or it doesn’t or doesn’t yet. The only folks breaking anything are those swapping use of X with Wayland, within various apps or tech stacks, potentially prematurely, where Wayland doesn’t yet have the full set of features needed.”\n
              \n
              Whoever this is seems to have a really poor understanding of long-term software development, despite being way more invested in it than I am.
              """
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              date: 2023-11-21 00:40:35.0 +01:00
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          +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1382}
          +body: """
            It feels like “English is broken because my friend only knows German.” to me. English works just fine. Teach your friend English.\n
            \n
            English is Wayland. German is X11. Friend is software.
            """
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            "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
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            date: 2023-11-22 20:39:14.0 +01:00
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            date: 2023-11-19 00:06:25.0 +01:00
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        +body: """
          You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
          \n
          Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
          """
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          "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
          "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
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          date: 2023-11-19 03:09:37.0 +01:00
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      +body: """
        You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
        \n
        The Linux ecosystem is not the product of a giant corporation. It is highly distributed and both built and promoted by multiple players with many different goals and interests.\n
        \n
        The people actually building the ecosystem have aligned almost completely on Wayland. The strong implication is that X was not working for them.\n
        \n
        Distributions have been slower to move but that is happening now. You can look at this as forcing users to move. My guess is that it is more a case of pleasing some uses and frustrating others where more users want what Wayland provides than miss what it doesn’t.\n
        \n
        It is always painful to be a laggard during a technology transition. There is usually a period where the new tech becomes common before it does what you want. That is just what technology transitions look like. When that happens, the problem is that the majority is perfectly happy and maybe happier than ever. That is why things happen when they do.
        """
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        "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
        "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
        "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
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        date: 2023-11-19 17:18:38.0 +01:00
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    +body: """
      > You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
      \n
      All I see is a rift in the community over one side pushing software that’s beta-quality at best, and acting very arrogant and dismissive towards real adoption impediments.\n
      \n
      Which is par for the course for Linux, naturally, but “it’s happening” is wishful thinking at this stage. At this rate and with this attitude it will take at least another 5 years.\n
      \n
      Wayland’s worst enemy is its own fans.
      """
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      "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
      "@LeFantome@programming.dev"
    ]
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  +body: """
    As I like to stay evidence driven, I should say that I use XFCE mostly and, as such, am not typically a Wayland user on most of my machines. I will let other readers decide how that impacts the indictment “Wayland’s worst enemy is its fans”.\n
    \n
    I am not sure what the “sides” are here either. If I was to try to draw that line, it seems to be between people providing software and those using it. Because the people writing the software are moving to Wayland.\n
    \n
    Which leads us to “at this rate”. GNOME and KDE will both be Wayland only next year. What percentage of the Linux Desktop population do we think that represents right there? Enlightenment has already moved. Ubuntu uses Wayland. Red Hat uses Wayland. The Steam Deck uses Wayland. XFCE and Cinnamon will move next year. Wayland only window managers are appearing and gaining in popularity. What percentage of the Linux Desktop universe are you expecting will still be using X at the end of 2025?\n
    \n
    Some people may wait 5 years. Then again, Ref Hat will have stopped contribute to X by then and, as I said, nobody is rushing in to dev X. How long is running X going to stay viable?\n
    \n
    I would say that BSD may take a little longer but they are starting to move too.\n
    \n
    Liking Wayland or not has nothing to do with any of these facts.
    """
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
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    +title: "linux"
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      From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
      \n
      Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).\n
      \n
      Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.\n
      \n
      ### Rules\n
      \n
      - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
      - No misinformation\n
      - No NSFW content\n
      - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
      \n
      ### Related Communities\n
      \n
      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
      \n
      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
      """
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            +body: """
              As someone with 0 investment in this whole ecosystem, I saw and perused this article like a week ago, and my immediate impression was “Why is this guy constantly saying ‘Wayland breaks XXXXX’? Wayland isn’t breaking anything, it’s new tech. Wayland has certain features, or it doesn’t or doesn’t yet. The only folks breaking anything are those swapping use of X with Wayland, within various apps or tech stacks, potentially prematurely, where Wayland doesn’t yet have the full set of features needed.”\n
              \n
              Whoever this is seems to have a really poor understanding of long-term software development, despite being way more invested in it than I am.
              """
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          +body: """
            It feels like “English is broken because my friend only knows German.” to me. English works just fine. Teach your friend English.\n
            \n
            English is Wayland. German is X11. Friend is software.
            """
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1382}
        +body: """
          You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
          \n
          Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
          """
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          "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
          "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
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          date: 2023-11-19 03:09:37.0 +01:00
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      +body: """
        You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
        \n
        The Linux ecosystem is not the product of a giant corporation. It is highly distributed and both built and promoted by multiple players with many different goals and interests.\n
        \n
        The people actually building the ecosystem have aligned almost completely on Wayland. The strong implication is that X was not working for them.\n
        \n
        Distributions have been slower to move but that is happening now. You can look at this as forcing users to move. My guess is that it is more a case of pleasing some uses and frustrating others where more users want what Wayland provides than miss what it doesn’t.\n
        \n
        It is always painful to be a laggard during a technology transition. There is usually a period where the new tech becomes common before it does what you want. That is just what technology transitions look like. When that happens, the problem is that the majority is perfectly happy and maybe happier than ever. That is why things happen when they do.
        """
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        "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
        "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
        "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
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        date: 2023-11-19 17:18:38.0 +01:00
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    +body: """
      > You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
      \n
      All I see is a rift in the community over one side pushing software that’s beta-quality at best, and acting very arrogant and dismissive towards real adoption impediments.\n
      \n
      Which is par for the course for Linux, naturally, but “it’s happening” is wishful thinking at this stage. At this rate and with this attitude it will take at least another 5 years.\n
      \n
      Wayland’s worst enemy is its own fans.
      """
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      "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
      "@LeFantome@programming.dev"
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  +body: """
    As I like to stay evidence driven, I should say that I use XFCE mostly and, as such, am not typically a Wayland user on most of my machines. I will let other readers decide how that impacts the indictment “Wayland’s worst enemy is its fans”.\n
    \n
    I am not sure what the “sides” are here either. If I was to try to draw that line, it seems to be between people providing software and those using it. Because the people writing the software are moving to Wayland.\n
    \n
    Which leads us to “at this rate”. GNOME and KDE will both be Wayland only next year. What percentage of the Linux Desktop population do we think that represents right there? Enlightenment has already moved. Ubuntu uses Wayland. Red Hat uses Wayland. The Steam Deck uses Wayland. XFCE and Cinnamon will move next year. Wayland only window managers are appearing and gaining in popularity. What percentage of the Linux Desktop universe are you expecting will still be using X at the end of 2025?\n
    \n
    Some people may wait 5 years. Then again, Ref Hat will have stopped contribute to X by then and, as I said, nobody is rushing in to dev X. How long is running X going to stay viable?\n
    \n
    I would say that BSD may take a little longer but they are starting to move too.\n
    \n
    Liking Wayland or not has nothing to do with any of these facts.
    """
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
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    +description: """
      From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
      \n
      Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).\n
      \n
      Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.\n
      \n
      ### Rules\n
      \n
      - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
      - No misinformation\n
      - No NSFW content\n
      - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
      \n
      ### Related Communities\n
      \n
      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
      \n
      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
      """
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              +image: null
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              +body: """
                As someone with 0 investment in this whole ecosystem, I saw and perused this article like a week ago, and my immediate impression was “Why is this guy constantly saying ‘Wayland breaks XXXXX’? Wayland isn’t breaking anything, it’s new tech. Wayland has certain features, or it doesn’t or doesn’t yet. The only folks breaking anything are those swapping use of X with Wayland, within various apps or tech stacks, potentially prematurely, where Wayland doesn’t yet have the full set of features needed.”\n
                \n
                Whoever this is seems to have a really poor understanding of long-term software development, despite being way more invested in it than I am.
                """
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            +body: """
              It feels like “English is broken because my friend only knows German.” to me. English works just fine. Teach your friend English.\n
              \n
              English is Wayland. German is X11. Friend is software.
              """
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          +body: """
            You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
            \n
            Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
            """
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        +body: """
          You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
          \n
          The Linux ecosystem is not the product of a giant corporation. It is highly distributed and both built and promoted by multiple players with many different goals and interests.\n
          \n
          The people actually building the ecosystem have aligned almost completely on Wayland. The strong implication is that X was not working for them.\n
          \n
          Distributions have been slower to move but that is happening now. You can look at this as forcing users to move. My guess is that it is more a case of pleasing some uses and frustrating others where more users want what Wayland provides than miss what it doesn’t.\n
          \n
          It is always painful to be a laggard during a technology transition. There is usually a period where the new tech becomes common before it does what you want. That is just what technology transitions look like. When that happens, the problem is that the majority is perfectly happy and maybe happier than ever. That is why things happen when they do.
          """
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          "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
          "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
          "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
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          date: 2023-11-19 17:18:38.0 +01:00
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      +body: """
        > You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
        \n
        All I see is a rift in the community over one side pushing software that’s beta-quality at best, and acting very arrogant and dismissive towards real adoption impediments.\n
        \n
        Which is par for the course for Linux, naturally, but “it’s happening” is wishful thinking at this stage. At this rate and with this attitude it will take at least another 5 years.\n
        \n
        Wayland’s worst enemy is its own fans.
        """
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        "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
        "@LeFantome@programming.dev"
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    +body: """
      As I like to stay evidence driven, I should say that I use XFCE mostly and, as such, am not typically a Wayland user on most of my machines. I will let other readers decide how that impacts the indictment “Wayland’s worst enemy is its fans”.\n
      \n
      I am not sure what the “sides” are here either. If I was to try to draw that line, it seems to be between people providing software and those using it. Because the people writing the software are moving to Wayland.\n
      \n
      Which leads us to “at this rate”. GNOME and KDE will both be Wayland only next year. What percentage of the Linux Desktop population do we think that represents right there? Enlightenment has already moved. Ubuntu uses Wayland. Red Hat uses Wayland. The Steam Deck uses Wayland. XFCE and Cinnamon will move next year. Wayland only window managers are appearing and gaining in popularity. What percentage of the Linux Desktop universe are you expecting will still be using X at the end of 2025?\n
      \n
      Some people may wait 5 years. Then again, Ref Hat will have stopped contribute to X by then and, as I said, nobody is rushing in to dev X. How long is running X going to stay viable?\n
      \n
      I would say that BSD may take a little longer but they are starting to move too.\n
      \n
      Liking Wayland or not has nothing to do with any of these facts.
      """
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  +body: """
    They aren’t facts, again, they’re wishful thinking. I’m a long time contributor and developer and I can assure you that with things as complex as X and Wayland things would move slowly even if everybody was of the same mind, let alone in the “herding cats” style of FOSS.\n
    \n
    Wayland has been in development for 15 years and it’s still not ready – please, it’s not, and stomping our feet and claiming otherwise won’t make it so. Another 5 years will probably see it reach a more stable state.\n
    \n
    What do I mean by ready? Well the desktop stack [on Linux and *NIX] is extremely complex. Whenever you’re dealing with something extremely complex in software, over the years, you amass a large amount of solutions that solve real world problems. That’s what I call “ready”. Most of those solutions will be dealing with quirks and use cases which do not affect everybody equally, but they’re each crucial in their own way to a varying slice of the userbase.\n
    \n
    Whenever you rewrite something from scratch you throw away the bulk of those quirks. It’s a common fallacy for developers to look at the shiny new thing and think that it’s better. In reality it’s worthless without the quirks, and accumulating those quirks all over again takes a long time. X has been accumulating them for 40 years. Wayland is barely scratching the surface.\n
    \n
    The fact the protocol places and splits the burden over the various DE and WM teams will NOT help. We will need libraries that solve the same problem once instead of over and over, and most DE/WM will come to depend on those libraries. The end result will be eerily similar to X. Ironically, by the time Wayland will be done it will have spent a comparable time in development to X, and will have accumulated the same amount of baggage that people dislike about X.\n
    \n
    > What percentage of the Linux Desktop universe are you expecting will still be using X at the end of 2025?\n
    \n
    More or less the same that’s using X right now. GNOME, KDE and the various distros will get a bloody nose trying to force Wayland through but if that’s the only way they learn, so be it.\n
    \n
    The Steam Deck actually has one of the few use cases where Wayland actually makes sense, it’s a turnkey, highly controlled stack (both software and hardware) where users don’t have any reasons to care about what’s under the hood. I expect them to switch ASAP.\n
    \n
    Another place where Wayland can be used straightaway is the desktop graphical login screen (which is the original reason it was created for anyway). It’s a singular application with reduced requirements and simplistic interactions.
    """
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
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      From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
      \n
      Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).\n
      \n
      Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.\n
      \n
      ### Rules\n
      \n
      - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
      - No misinformation\n
      - No NSFW content\n
      - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
      \n
      ### Related Communities\n
      \n
      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
      \n
      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
      """
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              +body: """
                As someone with 0 investment in this whole ecosystem, I saw and perused this article like a week ago, and my immediate impression was “Why is this guy constantly saying ‘Wayland breaks XXXXX’? Wayland isn’t breaking anything, it’s new tech. Wayland has certain features, or it doesn’t or doesn’t yet. The only folks breaking anything are those swapping use of X with Wayland, within various apps or tech stacks, potentially prematurely, where Wayland doesn’t yet have the full set of features needed.”\n
                \n
                Whoever this is seems to have a really poor understanding of long-term software development, despite being way more invested in it than I am.
                """
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            +body: """
              It feels like “English is broken because my friend only knows German.” to me. English works just fine. Teach your friend English.\n
              \n
              English is Wayland. German is X11. Friend is software.
              """
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          +body: """
            You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
            \n
            Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
            """
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            date: 2023-11-19 03:09:37.0 +01:00
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        +body: """
          You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
          \n
          The Linux ecosystem is not the product of a giant corporation. It is highly distributed and both built and promoted by multiple players with many different goals and interests.\n
          \n
          The people actually building the ecosystem have aligned almost completely on Wayland. The strong implication is that X was not working for them.\n
          \n
          Distributions have been slower to move but that is happening now. You can look at this as forcing users to move. My guess is that it is more a case of pleasing some uses and frustrating others where more users want what Wayland provides than miss what it doesn’t.\n
          \n
          It is always painful to be a laggard during a technology transition. There is usually a period where the new tech becomes common before it does what you want. That is just what technology transitions look like. When that happens, the problem is that the majority is perfectly happy and maybe happier than ever. That is why things happen when they do.
          """
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      +body: """
        > You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
        \n
        All I see is a rift in the community over one side pushing software that’s beta-quality at best, and acting very arrogant and dismissive towards real adoption impediments.\n
        \n
        Which is par for the course for Linux, naturally, but “it’s happening” is wishful thinking at this stage. At this rate and with this attitude it will take at least another 5 years.\n
        \n
        Wayland’s worst enemy is its own fans.
        """
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        "@LeFantome@programming.dev"
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    +body: """
      As I like to stay evidence driven, I should say that I use XFCE mostly and, as such, am not typically a Wayland user on most of my machines. I will let other readers decide how that impacts the indictment “Wayland’s worst enemy is its fans”.\n
      \n
      I am not sure what the “sides” are here either. If I was to try to draw that line, it seems to be between people providing software and those using it. Because the people writing the software are moving to Wayland.\n
      \n
      Which leads us to “at this rate”. GNOME and KDE will both be Wayland only next year. What percentage of the Linux Desktop population do we think that represents right there? Enlightenment has already moved. Ubuntu uses Wayland. Red Hat uses Wayland. The Steam Deck uses Wayland. XFCE and Cinnamon will move next year. Wayland only window managers are appearing and gaining in popularity. What percentage of the Linux Desktop universe are you expecting will still be using X at the end of 2025?\n
      \n
      Some people may wait 5 years. Then again, Ref Hat will have stopped contribute to X by then and, as I said, nobody is rushing in to dev X. How long is running X going to stay viable?\n
      \n
      I would say that BSD may take a little longer but they are starting to move too.\n
      \n
      Liking Wayland or not has nothing to do with any of these facts.
      """
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  +body: """
    They aren’t facts, again, they’re wishful thinking. I’m a long time contributor and developer and I can assure you that with things as complex as X and Wayland things would move slowly even if everybody was of the same mind, let alone in the “herding cats” style of FOSS.\n
    \n
    Wayland has been in development for 15 years and it’s still not ready – please, it’s not, and stomping our feet and claiming otherwise won’t make it so. Another 5 years will probably see it reach a more stable state.\n
    \n
    What do I mean by ready? Well the desktop stack [on Linux and *NIX] is extremely complex. Whenever you’re dealing with something extremely complex in software, over the years, you amass a large amount of solutions that solve real world problems. That’s what I call “ready”. Most of those solutions will be dealing with quirks and use cases which do not affect everybody equally, but they’re each crucial in their own way to a varying slice of the userbase.\n
    \n
    Whenever you rewrite something from scratch you throw away the bulk of those quirks. It’s a common fallacy for developers to look at the shiny new thing and think that it’s better. In reality it’s worthless without the quirks, and accumulating those quirks all over again takes a long time. X has been accumulating them for 40 years. Wayland is barely scratching the surface.\n
    \n
    The fact the protocol places and splits the burden over the various DE and WM teams will NOT help. We will need libraries that solve the same problem once instead of over and over, and most DE/WM will come to depend on those libraries. The end result will be eerily similar to X. Ironically, by the time Wayland will be done it will have spent a comparable time in development to X, and will have accumulated the same amount of baggage that people dislike about X.\n
    \n
    > What percentage of the Linux Desktop universe are you expecting will still be using X at the end of 2025?\n
    \n
    More or less the same that’s using X right now. GNOME, KDE and the various distros will get a bloody nose trying to force Wayland through but if that’s the only way they learn, so be it.\n
    \n
    The Steam Deck actually has one of the few use cases where Wayland actually makes sense, it’s a turnkey, highly controlled stack (both software and hardware) where users don’t have any reasons to care about what’s under the hood. I expect them to switch ASAP.\n
    \n
    Another place where Wayland can be used straightaway is the desktop graphical login screen (which is the original reason it was created for anyway). It’s a singular application with reduced requirements and simplistic interactions.
    """
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
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      \n
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      \n
      Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.\n
      \n
      ### Rules\n
      \n
      - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
      - No misinformation\n
      - No NSFW content\n
      - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
      \n
      ### Related Communities\n
      \n
      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
      \n
      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
      """
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              +body: """
                As someone with 0 investment in this whole ecosystem, I saw and perused this article like a week ago, and my immediate impression was “Why is this guy constantly saying ‘Wayland breaks XXXXX’? Wayland isn’t breaking anything, it’s new tech. Wayland has certain features, or it doesn’t or doesn’t yet. The only folks breaking anything are those swapping use of X with Wayland, within various apps or tech stacks, potentially prematurely, where Wayland doesn’t yet have the full set of features needed.”\n
                \n
                Whoever this is seems to have a really poor understanding of long-term software development, despite being way more invested in it than I am.
                """
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              It feels like “English is broken because my friend only knows German.” to me. English works just fine. Teach your friend English.\n
              \n
              English is Wayland. German is X11. Friend is software.
              """
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              date: 2023-11-22 20:39:14.0 +01:00
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          +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1382}
          +body: """
            You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
            \n
            Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
            """
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        +body: """
          You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
          \n
          The Linux ecosystem is not the product of a giant corporation. It is highly distributed and both built and promoted by multiple players with many different goals and interests.\n
          \n
          The people actually building the ecosystem have aligned almost completely on Wayland. The strong implication is that X was not working for them.\n
          \n
          Distributions have been slower to move but that is happening now. You can look at this as forcing users to move. My guess is that it is more a case of pleasing some uses and frustrating others where more users want what Wayland provides than miss what it doesn’t.\n
          \n
          It is always painful to be a laggard during a technology transition. There is usually a period where the new tech becomes common before it does what you want. That is just what technology transitions look like. When that happens, the problem is that the majority is perfectly happy and maybe happier than ever. That is why things happen when they do.
          """
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        > You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
        \n
        All I see is a rift in the community over one side pushing software that’s beta-quality at best, and acting very arrogant and dismissive towards real adoption impediments.\n
        \n
        Which is par for the course for Linux, naturally, but “it’s happening” is wishful thinking at this stage. At this rate and with this attitude it will take at least another 5 years.\n
        \n
        Wayland’s worst enemy is its own fans.
        """
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    +body: """
      As I like to stay evidence driven, I should say that I use XFCE mostly and, as such, am not typically a Wayland user on most of my machines. I will let other readers decide how that impacts the indictment “Wayland’s worst enemy is its fans”.\n
      \n
      I am not sure what the “sides” are here either. If I was to try to draw that line, it seems to be between people providing software and those using it. Because the people writing the software are moving to Wayland.\n
      \n
      Which leads us to “at this rate”. GNOME and KDE will both be Wayland only next year. What percentage of the Linux Desktop population do we think that represents right there? Enlightenment has already moved. Ubuntu uses Wayland. Red Hat uses Wayland. The Steam Deck uses Wayland. XFCE and Cinnamon will move next year. Wayland only window managers are appearing and gaining in popularity. What percentage of the Linux Desktop universe are you expecting will still be using X at the end of 2025?\n
      \n
      Some people may wait 5 years. Then again, Ref Hat will have stopped contribute to X by then and, as I said, nobody is rushing in to dev X. How long is running X going to stay viable?\n
      \n
      I would say that BSD may take a little longer but they are starting to move too.\n
      \n
      Liking Wayland or not has nothing to do with any of these facts.
      """
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  +body: """
    They aren’t facts, again, they’re wishful thinking. I’m a long time contributor and developer and I can assure you that with things as complex as X and Wayland things would move slowly even if everybody was of the same mind, let alone in the “herding cats” style of FOSS.\n
    \n
    Wayland has been in development for 15 years and it’s still not ready – please, it’s not, and stomping our feet and claiming otherwise won’t make it so. Another 5 years will probably see it reach a more stable state.\n
    \n
    What do I mean by ready? Well the desktop stack [on Linux and *NIX] is extremely complex. Whenever you’re dealing with something extremely complex in software, over the years, you amass a large amount of solutions that solve real world problems. That’s what I call “ready”. Most of those solutions will be dealing with quirks and use cases which do not affect everybody equally, but they’re each crucial in their own way to a varying slice of the userbase.\n
    \n
    Whenever you rewrite something from scratch you throw away the bulk of those quirks. It’s a common fallacy for developers to look at the shiny new thing and think that it’s better. In reality it’s worthless without the quirks, and accumulating those quirks all over again takes a long time. X has been accumulating them for 40 years. Wayland is barely scratching the surface.\n
    \n
    The fact the protocol places and splits the burden over the various DE and WM teams will NOT help. We will need libraries that solve the same problem once instead of over and over, and most DE/WM will come to depend on those libraries. The end result will be eerily similar to X. Ironically, by the time Wayland will be done it will have spent a comparable time in development to X, and will have accumulated the same amount of baggage that people dislike about X.\n
    \n
    > What percentage of the Linux Desktop universe are you expecting will still be using X at the end of 2025?\n
    \n
    More or less the same that’s using X right now. GNOME, KDE and the various distros will get a bloody nose trying to force Wayland through but if that’s the only way they learn, so be it.\n
    \n
    The Steam Deck actually has one of the few use cases where Wayland actually makes sense, it’s a turnkey, highly controlled stack (both software and hardware) where users don’t have any reasons to care about what’s under the hood. I expect them to switch ASAP.\n
    \n
    Another place where Wayland can be used straightaway is the desktop graphical login screen (which is the original reason it was created for anyway). It’s a singular application with reduced requirements and simplistic interactions.
    """
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
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      From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
      \n
      Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).\n
      \n
      Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.\n
      \n
      ### Rules\n
      \n
      - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
      - No misinformation\n
      - No NSFW content\n
      - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
      \n
      ### Related Communities\n
      \n
      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
      \n
      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
      """
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      date: 2023-11-02 13:51:08.0 +01:00
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    +parent: App\Entity\EntryComment {#3054
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        +body: """
          As someone with 0 investment in this whole ecosystem, I saw and perused this article like a week ago, and my immediate impression was “Why is this guy constantly saying ‘Wayland breaks XXXXX’? Wayland isn’t breaking anything, it’s new tech. Wayland has certain features, or it doesn’t or doesn’t yet. The only folks breaking anything are those swapping use of X with Wayland, within various apps or tech stacks, potentially prematurely, where Wayland doesn’t yet have the full set of features needed.”\n
          \n
          Whoever this is seems to have a really poor understanding of long-term software development, despite being way more invested in it than I am.
          """
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      +body: """
        It feels like “English is broken because my friend only knows German.” to me. English works just fine. Teach your friend English.\n
        \n
        English is Wayland. German is X11. Friend is software.
        """
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        "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
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      You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
      \n
      Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
      """
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      "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
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  +body: """
    > because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
    \n
    … for *you*. I got the honor to try to find the correct match of specific NVIDIA driver version, desktop environment and compositor to get anything even remotely usable back when NVIDIA only supported Xorg. I was greeted with either an entire crash, black screen, graphical glitches, and/or screen flickering if I forgot to pin package versions. Connecting displays from right to left crashed everything, so I was forced to change my display setup to left to right. Of course, waking up displays from sleep never worked either. So don’t pretend that Wayland is a broken mess while abandonware Xorg is our Lord and savior.\n
    \n
    > Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.\n
    \n
    Software vendors drag their feet to adopt Wayland as nobody forces them to adopt Wayland. Again, Wayland works fine. X11 features don’t work in Wayland. But Wayland isn’t X11. Xwayland solves a lot of these problems. Software vendors back then didn’t port their Windows software to OS/2 due to OS/2’s Windows compatibility. Video game publishers today don’t port their games to Linux in part due to Steam Proton. Software vendors today don’t port their X11 software to Wayland due to Xwayland. So the ideal solution is to force a critical mass to adopt Wayland, drop Xwayland, and let software vendors suffer from the consequences of ignoring 16 years of Linux desktop protocol innovation.
    """
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    "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
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    "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#3272
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      From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
      \n
      Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).\n
      \n
      Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.\n
      \n
      ### Rules\n
      \n
      - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
      - No misinformation\n
      - No NSFW content\n
      - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
      \n
      ### Related Communities\n
      \n
      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
      \n
      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
      """
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      date: 2023-11-02 13:51:08.0 +01:00
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    +parent: App\Entity\EntryComment {#3054
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      +parent: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1382
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        +body: """
          As someone with 0 investment in this whole ecosystem, I saw and perused this article like a week ago, and my immediate impression was “Why is this guy constantly saying ‘Wayland breaks XXXXX’? Wayland isn’t breaking anything, it’s new tech. Wayland has certain features, or it doesn’t or doesn’t yet. The only folks breaking anything are those swapping use of X with Wayland, within various apps or tech stacks, potentially prematurely, where Wayland doesn’t yet have the full set of features needed.”\n
          \n
          Whoever this is seems to have a really poor understanding of long-term software development, despite being way more invested in it than I am.
          """
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      +body: """
        It feels like “English is broken because my friend only knows German.” to me. English works just fine. Teach your friend English.\n
        \n
        English is Wayland. German is X11. Friend is software.
        """
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        date: 2023-11-19 00:06:25.0 +01:00
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    +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1382}
    +body: """
      You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
      \n
      Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
      """
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      "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
      "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
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  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1382}
  +body: """
    > because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
    \n
    … for *you*. I got the honor to try to find the correct match of specific NVIDIA driver version, desktop environment and compositor to get anything even remotely usable back when NVIDIA only supported Xorg. I was greeted with either an entire crash, black screen, graphical glitches, and/or screen flickering if I forgot to pin package versions. Connecting displays from right to left crashed everything, so I was forced to change my display setup to left to right. Of course, waking up displays from sleep never worked either. So don’t pretend that Wayland is a broken mess while abandonware Xorg is our Lord and savior.\n
    \n
    > Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.\n
    \n
    Software vendors drag their feet to adopt Wayland as nobody forces them to adopt Wayland. Again, Wayland works fine. X11 features don’t work in Wayland. But Wayland isn’t X11. Xwayland solves a lot of these problems. Software vendors back then didn’t port their Windows software to OS/2 due to OS/2’s Windows compatibility. Video game publishers today don’t port their games to Linux in part due to Steam Proton. Software vendors today don’t port their X11 software to Wayland due to Xwayland. So the ideal solution is to force a critical mass to adopt Wayland, drop Xwayland, and let software vendors suffer from the consequences of ignoring 16 years of Linux desktop protocol innovation.
    """
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    "@theshatterstone54@feddit.uk"
    "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
    "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
    "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
  ]
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#3272
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    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#288 …}
    +name: "linux@lemmy.ml"
    +title: "linux"
    +description: """
      From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
      \n
      Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).\n
      \n
      Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.\n
      \n
      ### Rules\n
      \n
      - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
      - No misinformation\n
      - No NSFW content\n
      - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
      \n
      ### Related Communities\n
      \n
      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
      \n
      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
      """
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        +body: """
          As someone with 0 investment in this whole ecosystem, I saw and perused this article like a week ago, and my immediate impression was “Why is this guy constantly saying ‘Wayland breaks XXXXX’? Wayland isn’t breaking anything, it’s new tech. Wayland has certain features, or it doesn’t or doesn’t yet. The only folks breaking anything are those swapping use of X with Wayland, within various apps or tech stacks, potentially prematurely, where Wayland doesn’t yet have the full set of features needed.”\n
          \n
          Whoever this is seems to have a really poor understanding of long-term software development, despite being way more invested in it than I am.
          """
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      +body: """
        It feels like “English is broken because my friend only knows German.” to me. English works just fine. Teach your friend English.\n
        \n
        English is Wayland. German is X11. Friend is software.
        """
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        "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
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        date: 2023-11-22 20:39:14.0 +01:00
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        date: 2023-11-19 00:06:25.0 +01:00
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    +body: """
      You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
      \n
      Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
      """
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      date: 2023-11-19 03:09:37.0 +01:00
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  +body: """
    > because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
    \n
    … for *you*. I got the honor to try to find the correct match of specific NVIDIA driver version, desktop environment and compositor to get anything even remotely usable back when NVIDIA only supported Xorg. I was greeted with either an entire crash, black screen, graphical glitches, and/or screen flickering if I forgot to pin package versions. Connecting displays from right to left crashed everything, so I was forced to change my display setup to left to right. Of course, waking up displays from sleep never worked either. So don’t pretend that Wayland is a broken mess while abandonware Xorg is our Lord and savior.\n
    \n
    > Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.\n
    \n
    Software vendors drag their feet to adopt Wayland as nobody forces them to adopt Wayland. Again, Wayland works fine. X11 features don’t work in Wayland. But Wayland isn’t X11. Xwayland solves a lot of these problems. Software vendors back then didn’t port their Windows software to OS/2 due to OS/2’s Windows compatibility. Video game publishers today don’t port their games to Linux in part due to Steam Proton. Software vendors today don’t port their X11 software to Wayland due to Xwayland. So the ideal solution is to force a critical mass to adopt Wayland, drop Xwayland, and let software vendors suffer from the consequences of ignoring 16 years of Linux desktop protocol innovation.
    """
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
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      From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
      \n
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      \n
      Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.\n
      \n
      ### Rules\n
      \n
      - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
      - No misinformation\n
      - No NSFW content\n
      - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
      \n
      ### Related Communities\n
      \n
      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
      \n
      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
      """
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      +parent: App\Entity\EntryComment {#3054
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          +body: """
            As someone with 0 investment in this whole ecosystem, I saw and perused this article like a week ago, and my immediate impression was “Why is this guy constantly saying ‘Wayland breaks XXXXX’? Wayland isn’t breaking anything, it’s new tech. Wayland has certain features, or it doesn’t or doesn’t yet. The only folks breaking anything are those swapping use of X with Wayland, within various apps or tech stacks, potentially prematurely, where Wayland doesn’t yet have the full set of features needed.”\n
            \n
            Whoever this is seems to have a really poor understanding of long-term software development, despite being way more invested in it than I am.
            """
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          It feels like “English is broken because my friend only knows German.” to me. English works just fine. Teach your friend English.\n
          \n
          English is Wayland. German is X11. Friend is software.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-22 20:39:14.0 +01:00
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          date: 2023-11-19 00:06:25.0 +01:00
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      }
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1382}
      +body: """
        You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
        \n
        Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
        """
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        "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
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        date: 2023-11-19 03:09:37.0 +01:00
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    +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1382}
    +body: """
      > because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
      \n
      … for *you*. I got the honor to try to find the correct match of specific NVIDIA driver version, desktop environment and compositor to get anything even remotely usable back when NVIDIA only supported Xorg. I was greeted with either an entire crash, black screen, graphical glitches, and/or screen flickering if I forgot to pin package versions. Connecting displays from right to left crashed everything, so I was forced to change my display setup to left to right. Of course, waking up displays from sleep never worked either. So don’t pretend that Wayland is a broken mess while abandonware Xorg is our Lord and savior.\n
      \n
      > Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.\n
      \n
      Software vendors drag their feet to adopt Wayland as nobody forces them to adopt Wayland. Again, Wayland works fine. X11 features don’t work in Wayland. But Wayland isn’t X11. Xwayland solves a lot of these problems. Software vendors back then didn’t port their Windows software to OS/2 due to OS/2’s Windows compatibility. Video game publishers today don’t port their games to Linux in part due to Steam Proton. Software vendors today don’t port their X11 software to Wayland due to Xwayland. So the ideal solution is to force a critical mass to adopt Wayland, drop Xwayland, and let software vendors suffer from the consequences of ignoring 16 years of Linux desktop protocol innovation.
      """
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      "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
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      date: 2023-11-19 15:48:17.0 +01:00
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  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1382}
  +body: """
    I’m glad Wayland solves problems for you, but it creates them for others.\n
    \n
    Imagine being forced to go the other way. Could you be coerced into going back to Xorg? What would you do if a distro attempted to do that to you?
    """
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#3321
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    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#288 …}
    +name: "linux@lemmy.ml"
    +title: "linux"
    +description: """
      From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
      \n
      Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).\n
      \n
      Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.\n
      \n
      ### Rules\n
      \n
      - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
      - No misinformation\n
      - No NSFW content\n
      - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
      \n
      ### Related Communities\n
      \n
      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
      \n
      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
      """
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      date: 2023-11-02 13:51:08.0 +01:00
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  +parent: App\Entity\EntryComment {#3272
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    +image: null
    +parent: App\Entity\EntryComment {#3186
      +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#3187 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1401 …}
      +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#307}
      +image: null
      +parent: App\Entity\EntryComment {#3054
        +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#3053 …}
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        +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#307}
        +image: null
        +parent: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1382
          +user: App\Entity\User {#2018 …}
          +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1401 …}
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          +image: null
          +parent: null
          +root: null
          +body: """
            As someone with 0 investment in this whole ecosystem, I saw and perused this article like a week ago, and my immediate impression was “Why is this guy constantly saying ‘Wayland breaks XXXXX’? Wayland isn’t breaking anything, it’s new tech. Wayland has certain features, or it doesn’t or doesn’t yet. The only folks breaking anything are those swapping use of X with Wayland, within various apps or tech stacks, potentially prematurely, where Wayland doesn’t yet have the full set of features needed.”\n
            \n
            Whoever this is seems to have a really poor understanding of long-term software development, despite being way more invested in it than I am.
            """
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            "@theshatterstone54@feddit.uk"
          ]
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            date: 2023-11-21 00:40:35.0 +01:00
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            date: 2023-11-17 17:49:20.0 +01:00
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        }
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1382}
        +body: """
          It feels like “English is broken because my friend only knows German.” to me. English works just fine. Teach your friend English.\n
          \n
          English is Wayland. German is X11. Friend is software.
          """
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          "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
        ]
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          date: 2023-11-22 20:39:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700348785 {#3055
          date: 2023-11-19 00:06:25.0 +01:00
        }
      }
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1382}
      +body: """
        You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
        \n
        Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
        """
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      +isAdult: false
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        "@theshatterstone54@feddit.uk"
        "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
        "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3188 …}
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        date: 2023-11-19 03:09:37.0 +01:00
      }
    }
    +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1382}
    +body: """
      > because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
      \n
      … for *you*. I got the honor to try to find the correct match of specific NVIDIA driver version, desktop environment and compositor to get anything even remotely usable back when NVIDIA only supported Xorg. I was greeted with either an entire crash, black screen, graphical glitches, and/or screen flickering if I forgot to pin package versions. Connecting displays from right to left crashed everything, so I was forced to change my display setup to left to right. Of course, waking up displays from sleep never worked either. So don’t pretend that Wayland is a broken mess while abandonware Xorg is our Lord and savior.\n
      \n
      > Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.\n
      \n
      Software vendors drag their feet to adopt Wayland as nobody forces them to adopt Wayland. Again, Wayland works fine. X11 features don’t work in Wayland. But Wayland isn’t X11. Xwayland solves a lot of these problems. Software vendors back then didn’t port their Windows software to OS/2 due to OS/2’s Windows compatibility. Video game publishers today don’t port their games to Linux in part due to Steam Proton. Software vendors today don’t port their X11 software to Wayland due to Xwayland. So the ideal solution is to force a critical mass to adopt Wayland, drop Xwayland, and let software vendors suffer from the consequences of ignoring 16 years of Linux desktop protocol innovation.
      """
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      "@theshatterstone54@feddit.uk"
      "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
      "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
      "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    ]
    +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3273 …}
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    +ranking: 0
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    +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700760108 {#3270
      date: 2023-11-23 18:21:48.0 +01:00
    }
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700405297 {#3271
      date: 2023-11-19 15:48:17.0 +01:00
    }
  }
  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1382}
  +body: """
    I’m glad Wayland solves problems for you, but it creates them for others.\n
    \n
    Imagine being forced to go the other way. Could you be coerced into going back to Xorg? What would you do if a distro attempted to do that to you?
    """
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    "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
    "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
    "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3324 …}
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    date: 2023-11-19 22:21:07.0 +01:00
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#3321
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#3187 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1401 …}
  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#307
    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#288 …}
    +name: "linux@lemmy.ml"
    +title: "linux"
    +description: """
      From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
      \n
      Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).\n
      \n
      Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.\n
      \n
      ### Rules\n
      \n
      - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
      - No misinformation\n
      - No NSFW content\n
      - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
      \n
      ### Related Communities\n
      \n
      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
      \n
      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
      """
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          +body: """
            As someone with 0 investment in this whole ecosystem, I saw and perused this article like a week ago, and my immediate impression was “Why is this guy constantly saying ‘Wayland breaks XXXXX’? Wayland isn’t breaking anything, it’s new tech. Wayland has certain features, or it doesn’t or doesn’t yet. The only folks breaking anything are those swapping use of X with Wayland, within various apps or tech stacks, potentially prematurely, where Wayland doesn’t yet have the full set of features needed.”\n
            \n
            Whoever this is seems to have a really poor understanding of long-term software development, despite being way more invested in it than I am.
            """
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          It feels like “English is broken because my friend only knows German.” to me. English works just fine. Teach your friend English.\n
          \n
          English is Wayland. German is X11. Friend is software.
          """
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      +body: """
        You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
        \n
        Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
        """
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        date: 2023-11-19 03:09:37.0 +01:00
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    +body: """
      > because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
      \n
      … for *you*. I got the honor to try to find the correct match of specific NVIDIA driver version, desktop environment and compositor to get anything even remotely usable back when NVIDIA only supported Xorg. I was greeted with either an entire crash, black screen, graphical glitches, and/or screen flickering if I forgot to pin package versions. Connecting displays from right to left crashed everything, so I was forced to change my display setup to left to right. Of course, waking up displays from sleep never worked either. So don’t pretend that Wayland is a broken mess while abandonware Xorg is our Lord and savior.\n
      \n
      > Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.\n
      \n
      Software vendors drag their feet to adopt Wayland as nobody forces them to adopt Wayland. Again, Wayland works fine. X11 features don’t work in Wayland. But Wayland isn’t X11. Xwayland solves a lot of these problems. Software vendors back then didn’t port their Windows software to OS/2 due to OS/2’s Windows compatibility. Video game publishers today don’t port their games to Linux in part due to Steam Proton. Software vendors today don’t port their X11 software to Wayland due to Xwayland. So the ideal solution is to force a critical mass to adopt Wayland, drop Xwayland, and let software vendors suffer from the consequences of ignoring 16 years of Linux desktop protocol innovation.
      """
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    I’m glad Wayland solves problems for you, but it creates them for others.\n
    \n
    Imagine being forced to go the other way. Could you be coerced into going back to Xorg? What would you do if a distro attempted to do that to you?
    """
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
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      \n
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      \n
      Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.\n
      \n
      ### Rules\n
      \n
      - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
      - No misinformation\n
      - No NSFW content\n
      - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
      \n
      ### Related Communities\n
      \n
      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
      \n
      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
      """
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              As someone with 0 investment in this whole ecosystem, I saw and perused this article like a week ago, and my immediate impression was “Why is this guy constantly saying ‘Wayland breaks XXXXX’? Wayland isn’t breaking anything, it’s new tech. Wayland has certain features, or it doesn’t or doesn’t yet. The only folks breaking anything are those swapping use of X with Wayland, within various apps or tech stacks, potentially prematurely, where Wayland doesn’t yet have the full set of features needed.”\n
              \n
              Whoever this is seems to have a really poor understanding of long-term software development, despite being way more invested in it than I am.
              """
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            It feels like “English is broken because my friend only knows German.” to me. English works just fine. Teach your friend English.\n
            \n
            English is Wayland. German is X11. Friend is software.
            """
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          You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
          \n
          Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
          """
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      +body: """
        > because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
        \n
        … for *you*. I got the honor to try to find the correct match of specific NVIDIA driver version, desktop environment and compositor to get anything even remotely usable back when NVIDIA only supported Xorg. I was greeted with either an entire crash, black screen, graphical glitches, and/or screen flickering if I forgot to pin package versions. Connecting displays from right to left crashed everything, so I was forced to change my display setup to left to right. Of course, waking up displays from sleep never worked either. So don’t pretend that Wayland is a broken mess while abandonware Xorg is our Lord and savior.\n
        \n
        > Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.\n
        \n
        Software vendors drag their feet to adopt Wayland as nobody forces them to adopt Wayland. Again, Wayland works fine. X11 features don’t work in Wayland. But Wayland isn’t X11. Xwayland solves a lot of these problems. Software vendors back then didn’t port their Windows software to OS/2 due to OS/2’s Windows compatibility. Video game publishers today don’t port their games to Linux in part due to Steam Proton. Software vendors today don’t port their X11 software to Wayland due to Xwayland. So the ideal solution is to force a critical mass to adopt Wayland, drop Xwayland, and let software vendors suffer from the consequences of ignoring 16 years of Linux desktop protocol innovation.
        """
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      I’m glad Wayland solves problems for you, but it creates them for others.\n
      \n
      Imagine being forced to go the other way. Could you be coerced into going back to Xorg? What would you do if a distro attempted to do that to you?
      """
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    If people give up on maintainable solutions like Wayland, then there’s no way in hell anyone picks up Xorg ever again. My Xorg issues remain wontfix. Wayland issues are now wontfix. Nobody works on Wayland and Xorg. Linux desktop is officially dead. I either switch back to Windows or buy a MacBook. I won’t invest time into an ecosystem that’s destined to die a slow, but guaranteed death.\n
    \n
    I’m sure a lot of people try to hold onto their beloved abandonware to keep their Linux desktop alive, but why should AMD, Intel and NVIDIA care about Linux desktop now that the Linux community doesn’t have enough fucks to give to maintain Linux desktop? May as well save driver development costs and drop Wayland and Xorg support from future graphics cards.
    """
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      From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
      \n
      Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).\n
      \n
      Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.\n
      \n
      ### Rules\n
      \n
      - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
      - No misinformation\n
      - No NSFW content\n
      - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
      \n
      ### Related Communities\n
      \n
      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
      \n
      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
      """
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            +body: """
              As someone with 0 investment in this whole ecosystem, I saw and perused this article like a week ago, and my immediate impression was “Why is this guy constantly saying ‘Wayland breaks XXXXX’? Wayland isn’t breaking anything, it’s new tech. Wayland has certain features, or it doesn’t or doesn’t yet. The only folks breaking anything are those swapping use of X with Wayland, within various apps or tech stacks, potentially prematurely, where Wayland doesn’t yet have the full set of features needed.”\n
              \n
              Whoever this is seems to have a really poor understanding of long-term software development, despite being way more invested in it than I am.
              """
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            It feels like “English is broken because my friend only knows German.” to me. English works just fine. Teach your friend English.\n
            \n
            English is Wayland. German is X11. Friend is software.
            """
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          You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
          \n
          Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
          """
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      +body: """
        > because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
        \n
        … for *you*. I got the honor to try to find the correct match of specific NVIDIA driver version, desktop environment and compositor to get anything even remotely usable back when NVIDIA only supported Xorg. I was greeted with either an entire crash, black screen, graphical glitches, and/or screen flickering if I forgot to pin package versions. Connecting displays from right to left crashed everything, so I was forced to change my display setup to left to right. Of course, waking up displays from sleep never worked either. So don’t pretend that Wayland is a broken mess while abandonware Xorg is our Lord and savior.\n
        \n
        > Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.\n
        \n
        Software vendors drag their feet to adopt Wayland as nobody forces them to adopt Wayland. Again, Wayland works fine. X11 features don’t work in Wayland. But Wayland isn’t X11. Xwayland solves a lot of these problems. Software vendors back then didn’t port their Windows software to OS/2 due to OS/2’s Windows compatibility. Video game publishers today don’t port their games to Linux in part due to Steam Proton. Software vendors today don’t port their X11 software to Wayland due to Xwayland. So the ideal solution is to force a critical mass to adopt Wayland, drop Xwayland, and let software vendors suffer from the consequences of ignoring 16 years of Linux desktop protocol innovation.
        """
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        "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
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        date: 2023-11-23 18:21:48.0 +01:00
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    +body: """
      I’m glad Wayland solves problems for you, but it creates them for others.\n
      \n
      Imagine being forced to go the other way. Could you be coerced into going back to Xorg? What would you do if a distro attempted to do that to you?
      """
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  +body: """
    If people give up on maintainable solutions like Wayland, then there’s no way in hell anyone picks up Xorg ever again. My Xorg issues remain wontfix. Wayland issues are now wontfix. Nobody works on Wayland and Xorg. Linux desktop is officially dead. I either switch back to Windows or buy a MacBook. I won’t invest time into an ecosystem that’s destined to die a slow, but guaranteed death.\n
    \n
    I’m sure a lot of people try to hold onto their beloved abandonware to keep their Linux desktop alive, but why should AMD, Intel and NVIDIA care about Linux desktop now that the Linux community doesn’t have enough fucks to give to maintain Linux desktop? May as well save driver development costs and drop Wayland and Xorg support from future graphics cards.
    """
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#3353
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    +title: "linux"
    +description: """
      From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
      \n
      Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).\n
      \n
      Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.\n
      \n
      ### Rules\n
      \n
      - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
      - No misinformation\n
      - No NSFW content\n
      - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
      \n
      ### Related Communities\n
      \n
      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
      \n
      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
      """
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            +body: """
              As someone with 0 investment in this whole ecosystem, I saw and perused this article like a week ago, and my immediate impression was “Why is this guy constantly saying ‘Wayland breaks XXXXX’? Wayland isn’t breaking anything, it’s new tech. Wayland has certain features, or it doesn’t or doesn’t yet. The only folks breaking anything are those swapping use of X with Wayland, within various apps or tech stacks, potentially prematurely, where Wayland doesn’t yet have the full set of features needed.”\n
              \n
              Whoever this is seems to have a really poor understanding of long-term software development, despite being way more invested in it than I am.
              """
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          +body: """
            It feels like “English is broken because my friend only knows German.” to me. English works just fine. Teach your friend English.\n
            \n
            English is Wayland. German is X11. Friend is software.
            """
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        +body: """
          You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
          \n
          Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
          """
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          "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
          "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
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      +body: """
        > because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
        \n
        … for *you*. I got the honor to try to find the correct match of specific NVIDIA driver version, desktop environment and compositor to get anything even remotely usable back when NVIDIA only supported Xorg. I was greeted with either an entire crash, black screen, graphical glitches, and/or screen flickering if I forgot to pin package versions. Connecting displays from right to left crashed everything, so I was forced to change my display setup to left to right. Of course, waking up displays from sleep never worked either. So don’t pretend that Wayland is a broken mess while abandonware Xorg is our Lord and savior.\n
        \n
        > Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.\n
        \n
        Software vendors drag their feet to adopt Wayland as nobody forces them to adopt Wayland. Again, Wayland works fine. X11 features don’t work in Wayland. But Wayland isn’t X11. Xwayland solves a lot of these problems. Software vendors back then didn’t port their Windows software to OS/2 due to OS/2’s Windows compatibility. Video game publishers today don’t port their games to Linux in part due to Steam Proton. Software vendors today don’t port their X11 software to Wayland due to Xwayland. So the ideal solution is to force a critical mass to adopt Wayland, drop Xwayland, and let software vendors suffer from the consequences of ignoring 16 years of Linux desktop protocol innovation.
        """
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        "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
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      I’m glad Wayland solves problems for you, but it creates them for others.\n
      \n
      Imagine being forced to go the other way. Could you be coerced into going back to Xorg? What would you do if a distro attempted to do that to you?
      """
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  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1382}
  +body: """
    If people give up on maintainable solutions like Wayland, then there’s no way in hell anyone picks up Xorg ever again. My Xorg issues remain wontfix. Wayland issues are now wontfix. Nobody works on Wayland and Xorg. Linux desktop is officially dead. I either switch back to Windows or buy a MacBook. I won’t invest time into an ecosystem that’s destined to die a slow, but guaranteed death.\n
    \n
    I’m sure a lot of people try to hold onto their beloved abandonware to keep their Linux desktop alive, but why should AMD, Intel and NVIDIA care about Linux desktop now that the Linux community doesn’t have enough fucks to give to maintain Linux desktop? May as well save driver development costs and drop Wayland and Xorg support from future graphics cards.
    """
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    "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#3413
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    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#288 …}
    +name: "linux@lemmy.ml"
    +title: "linux"
    +description: """
      From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
      \n
      Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).\n
      \n
      Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.\n
      \n
      ### Rules\n
      \n
      - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
      - No misinformation\n
      - No NSFW content\n
      - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
      \n
      ### Related Communities\n
      \n
      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
      \n
      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
      """
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      date: 2023-11-02 13:51:08.0 +01:00
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    +parent: App\Entity\EntryComment {#3321
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      +parent: App\Entity\EntryComment {#3272
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          +parent: App\Entity\EntryComment {#3054
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              +image: null
              +parent: null
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              +body: """
                As someone with 0 investment in this whole ecosystem, I saw and perused this article like a week ago, and my immediate impression was “Why is this guy constantly saying ‘Wayland breaks XXXXX’? Wayland isn’t breaking anything, it’s new tech. Wayland has certain features, or it doesn’t or doesn’t yet. The only folks breaking anything are those swapping use of X with Wayland, within various apps or tech stacks, potentially prematurely, where Wayland doesn’t yet have the full set of features needed.”\n
                \n
                Whoever this is seems to have a really poor understanding of long-term software development, despite being way more invested in it than I am.
                """
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              ]
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            +body: """
              It feels like “English is broken because my friend only knows German.” to me. English works just fine. Teach your friend English.\n
              \n
              English is Wayland. German is X11. Friend is software.
              """
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              "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
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              date: 2023-11-22 20:39:14.0 +01:00
            }
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              date: 2023-11-19 00:06:25.0 +01:00
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          }
          +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1382}
          +body: """
            You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
            \n
            Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
            """
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            "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
            "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
          ]
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            date: 2023-11-19 03:09:37.0 +01:00
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        }
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1382}
        +body: """
          > because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
          \n
          … for *you*. I got the honor to try to find the correct match of specific NVIDIA driver version, desktop environment and compositor to get anything even remotely usable back when NVIDIA only supported Xorg. I was greeted with either an entire crash, black screen, graphical glitches, and/or screen flickering if I forgot to pin package versions. Connecting displays from right to left crashed everything, so I was forced to change my display setup to left to right. Of course, waking up displays from sleep never worked either. So don’t pretend that Wayland is a broken mess while abandonware Xorg is our Lord and savior.\n
          \n
          > Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.\n
          \n
          Software vendors drag their feet to adopt Wayland as nobody forces them to adopt Wayland. Again, Wayland works fine. X11 features don’t work in Wayland. But Wayland isn’t X11. Xwayland solves a lot of these problems. Software vendors back then didn’t port their Windows software to OS/2 due to OS/2’s Windows compatibility. Video game publishers today don’t port their games to Linux in part due to Steam Proton. Software vendors today don’t port their X11 software to Wayland due to Xwayland. So the ideal solution is to force a critical mass to adopt Wayland, drop Xwayland, and let software vendors suffer from the consequences of ignoring 16 years of Linux desktop protocol innovation.
          """
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          "@theshatterstone54@feddit.uk"
          "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
          "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
          "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
        ]
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      +body: """
        I’m glad Wayland solves problems for you, but it creates them for others.\n
        \n
        Imagine being forced to go the other way. Could you be coerced into going back to Xorg? What would you do if a distro attempted to do that to you?
        """
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        "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
        "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
        "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
      ]
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    +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1382}
    +body: """
      If people give up on maintainable solutions like Wayland, then there’s no way in hell anyone picks up Xorg ever again. My Xorg issues remain wontfix. Wayland issues are now wontfix. Nobody works on Wayland and Xorg. Linux desktop is officially dead. I either switch back to Windows or buy a MacBook. I won’t invest time into an ecosystem that’s destined to die a slow, but guaranteed death.\n
      \n
      I’m sure a lot of people try to hold onto their beloved abandonware to keep their Linux desktop alive, but why should AMD, Intel and NVIDIA care about Linux desktop now that the Linux community doesn’t have enough fucks to give to maintain Linux desktop? May as well save driver development costs and drop Wayland and Xorg support from future graphics cards.
      """
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      "@theshatterstone54@feddit.uk"
      "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
      "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
      "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    ]
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  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1382}
  +body: """
    > but why should AMD, Intel and NVIDIA care about Linux desktop\n
    \n
    They care because it’s free testing for their more lucrative Linux-based products. We’re their lab rats.
    """
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    "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#3413
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    +title: "linux"
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      From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
      \n
      Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).\n
      \n
      Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.\n
      \n
      ### Rules\n
      \n
      - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
      - No misinformation\n
      - No NSFW content\n
      - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
      \n
      ### Related Communities\n
      \n
      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
      \n
      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
      """
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      +parent: App\Entity\EntryComment {#3272
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          +parent: App\Entity\EntryComment {#3054
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            +parent: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1382
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              +image: null
              +parent: null
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              +body: """
                As someone with 0 investment in this whole ecosystem, I saw and perused this article like a week ago, and my immediate impression was “Why is this guy constantly saying ‘Wayland breaks XXXXX’? Wayland isn’t breaking anything, it’s new tech. Wayland has certain features, or it doesn’t or doesn’t yet. The only folks breaking anything are those swapping use of X with Wayland, within various apps or tech stacks, potentially prematurely, where Wayland doesn’t yet have the full set of features needed.”\n
                \n
                Whoever this is seems to have a really poor understanding of long-term software development, despite being way more invested in it than I am.
                """
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                date: 2023-11-21 00:40:35.0 +01:00
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            +body: """
              It feels like “English is broken because my friend only knows German.” to me. English works just fine. Teach your friend English.\n
              \n
              English is Wayland. German is X11. Friend is software.
              """
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              "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
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              date: 2023-11-22 20:39:14.0 +01:00
            }
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              date: 2023-11-19 00:06:25.0 +01:00
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          }
          +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1382}
          +body: """
            You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
            \n
            Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
            """
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            "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
            "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
          ]
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            date: 2023-11-19 03:09:37.0 +01:00
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        }
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1382}
        +body: """
          > because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
          \n
          … for *you*. I got the honor to try to find the correct match of specific NVIDIA driver version, desktop environment and compositor to get anything even remotely usable back when NVIDIA only supported Xorg. I was greeted with either an entire crash, black screen, graphical glitches, and/or screen flickering if I forgot to pin package versions. Connecting displays from right to left crashed everything, so I was forced to change my display setup to left to right. Of course, waking up displays from sleep never worked either. So don’t pretend that Wayland is a broken mess while abandonware Xorg is our Lord and savior.\n
          \n
          > Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.\n
          \n
          Software vendors drag their feet to adopt Wayland as nobody forces them to adopt Wayland. Again, Wayland works fine. X11 features don’t work in Wayland. But Wayland isn’t X11. Xwayland solves a lot of these problems. Software vendors back then didn’t port their Windows software to OS/2 due to OS/2’s Windows compatibility. Video game publishers today don’t port their games to Linux in part due to Steam Proton. Software vendors today don’t port their X11 software to Wayland due to Xwayland. So the ideal solution is to force a critical mass to adopt Wayland, drop Xwayland, and let software vendors suffer from the consequences of ignoring 16 years of Linux desktop protocol innovation.
          """
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          "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
          "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
          "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
        ]
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      +body: """
        I’m glad Wayland solves problems for you, but it creates them for others.\n
        \n
        Imagine being forced to go the other way. Could you be coerced into going back to Xorg? What would you do if a distro attempted to do that to you?
        """
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        "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
        "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
        "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
      ]
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        date: 2023-11-19 22:21:07.0 +01:00
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    }
    +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1382}
    +body: """
      If people give up on maintainable solutions like Wayland, then there’s no way in hell anyone picks up Xorg ever again. My Xorg issues remain wontfix. Wayland issues are now wontfix. Nobody works on Wayland and Xorg. Linux desktop is officially dead. I either switch back to Windows or buy a MacBook. I won’t invest time into an ecosystem that’s destined to die a slow, but guaranteed death.\n
      \n
      I’m sure a lot of people try to hold onto their beloved abandonware to keep their Linux desktop alive, but why should AMD, Intel and NVIDIA care about Linux desktop now that the Linux community doesn’t have enough fucks to give to maintain Linux desktop? May as well save driver development costs and drop Wayland and Xorg support from future graphics cards.
      """
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      "@theshatterstone54@feddit.uk"
      "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
      "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
      "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    ]
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  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1382}
  +body: """
    > but why should AMD, Intel and NVIDIA care about Linux desktop\n
    \n
    They care because it’s free testing for their more lucrative Linux-based products. We’re their lab rats.
    """
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#3413
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    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#288 …}
    +name: "linux@lemmy.ml"
    +title: "linux"
    +description: """
      From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
      \n
      Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).\n
      \n
      Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.\n
      \n
      ### Rules\n
      \n
      - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
      - No misinformation\n
      - No NSFW content\n
      - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
      \n
      ### Related Communities\n
      \n
      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
      \n
      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
      """
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              +body: """
                As someone with 0 investment in this whole ecosystem, I saw and perused this article like a week ago, and my immediate impression was “Why is this guy constantly saying ‘Wayland breaks XXXXX’? Wayland isn’t breaking anything, it’s new tech. Wayland has certain features, or it doesn’t or doesn’t yet. The only folks breaking anything are those swapping use of X with Wayland, within various apps or tech stacks, potentially prematurely, where Wayland doesn’t yet have the full set of features needed.”\n
                \n
                Whoever this is seems to have a really poor understanding of long-term software development, despite being way more invested in it than I am.
                """
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            +body: """
              It feels like “English is broken because my friend only knows German.” to me. English works just fine. Teach your friend English.\n
              \n
              English is Wayland. German is X11. Friend is software.
              """
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              date: 2023-11-22 20:39:14.0 +01:00
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          +body: """
            You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
            \n
            Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
            """
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            "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
            "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
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            date: 2023-11-19 03:09:37.0 +01:00
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        +body: """
          > because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
          \n
          … for *you*. I got the honor to try to find the correct match of specific NVIDIA driver version, desktop environment and compositor to get anything even remotely usable back when NVIDIA only supported Xorg. I was greeted with either an entire crash, black screen, graphical glitches, and/or screen flickering if I forgot to pin package versions. Connecting displays from right to left crashed everything, so I was forced to change my display setup to left to right. Of course, waking up displays from sleep never worked either. So don’t pretend that Wayland is a broken mess while abandonware Xorg is our Lord and savior.\n
          \n
          > Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.\n
          \n
          Software vendors drag their feet to adopt Wayland as nobody forces them to adopt Wayland. Again, Wayland works fine. X11 features don’t work in Wayland. But Wayland isn’t X11. Xwayland solves a lot of these problems. Software vendors back then didn’t port their Windows software to OS/2 due to OS/2’s Windows compatibility. Video game publishers today don’t port their games to Linux in part due to Steam Proton. Software vendors today don’t port their X11 software to Wayland due to Xwayland. So the ideal solution is to force a critical mass to adopt Wayland, drop Xwayland, and let software vendors suffer from the consequences of ignoring 16 years of Linux desktop protocol innovation.
          """
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          "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
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      +body: """
        I’m glad Wayland solves problems for you, but it creates them for others.\n
        \n
        Imagine being forced to go the other way. Could you be coerced into going back to Xorg? What would you do if a distro attempted to do that to you?
        """
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        "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
      ]
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    +body: """
      If people give up on maintainable solutions like Wayland, then there’s no way in hell anyone picks up Xorg ever again. My Xorg issues remain wontfix. Wayland issues are now wontfix. Nobody works on Wayland and Xorg. Linux desktop is officially dead. I either switch back to Windows or buy a MacBook. I won’t invest time into an ecosystem that’s destined to die a slow, but guaranteed death.\n
      \n
      I’m sure a lot of people try to hold onto their beloved abandonware to keep their Linux desktop alive, but why should AMD, Intel and NVIDIA care about Linux desktop now that the Linux community doesn’t have enough fucks to give to maintain Linux desktop? May as well save driver development costs and drop Wayland and Xorg support from future graphics cards.
      """
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      "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
      "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
      "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
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    > but why should AMD, Intel and NVIDIA care about Linux desktop\n
    \n
    They care because it’s free testing for their more lucrative Linux-based products. We’re their lab rats.
    """
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null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
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      \n
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      \n
      Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.\n
      \n
      ### Rules\n
      \n
      - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
      - No misinformation\n
      - No NSFW content\n
      - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
      \n
      ### Related Communities\n
      \n
      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
      \n
      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
      """
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  +body: """
    According to the manpage ` --Yay --clean` is the thought behind it, its a Yay specific shortcut for `pacman -Rs $(pacman -Qqdt)` `R`emove recur`s`ive what the `Q`uery `q`uiet (short names) on the `d`atabase lists as unrequired `t`\n
    \n
    Now ` -Yc` does not sound that bad.\n
    \n
    It is still good to learn the verbose commands for pacman/paru/yay from the manpages, once you are familiar with them its easy to build more advanced commands for special use-cases.
    """
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
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      From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
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      \n
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      - No misinformation\n
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      - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
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      \n
      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
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      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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    According to the manpage ` --Yay --clean` is the thought behind it, its a Yay specific shortcut for `pacman -Rs $(pacman -Qqdt)` `R`emove recur`s`ive what the `Q`uery `q`uiet (short names) on the `d`atabase lists as unrequired `t`\n
    \n
    Now ` -Yc` does not sound that bad.\n
    \n
    It is still good to learn the verbose commands for pacman/paru/yay from the manpages, once you are familiar with them its easy to build more advanced commands for special use-cases.
    """
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      \n
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      \n
      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
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      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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    According to the manpage ` --Yay --clean` is the thought behind it, its a Yay specific shortcut for `pacman -Rs $(pacman -Qqdt)` `R`emove recur`s`ive what the `Q`uery `q`uiet (short names) on the `d`atabase lists as unrequired `t`\n
    \n
    Now ` -Yc` does not sound that bad.\n
    \n
    It is still good to learn the verbose commands for pacman/paru/yay from the manpages, once you are familiar with them its easy to build more advanced commands for special use-cases.
    """
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2110
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      From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
      \n
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      \n
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      ### Rules\n
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      - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
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      ### Related Communities\n
      \n
      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
      \n
      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
      """
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
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      From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
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      \n
      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
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      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
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      From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
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      \n
      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
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      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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    There’s a distro called NixOS that is created for this purpose. It also has a tool called home manager that will manage your dot files for you. Once you back up like two or three configuration files you can recreate your system (minus any actual data)\n
    \n
    When you do this in Arch there’s no guarantee you get the same package versions and there’s no guarantee everything works
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      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
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      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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    There’s a distro called NixOS that is created for this purpose. It also has a tool called home manager that will manage your dot files for you. Once you back up like two or three configuration files you can recreate your system (minus any actual data)\n
    \n
    When you do this in Arch there’s no guarantee you get the same package versions and there’s no guarantee everything works
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      \n
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      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
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      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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      \n
      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
      \n
      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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      \n
      When you do this in Arch there’s no guarantee you get the same package versions and there’s no guarantee everything works
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    To add to this, another viable path is using Nix, the package manager, on its own. That way you can get Home Manager to manage your applications and dotfiles independently of your base system, as long as you are able to install Nix.\n
    \n
    It’s my general workflow, run [Determinate Nix Installer](https://determinate.systems/posts/determinate-nix-installer), install Home Manager, clone my config and I’m off to the races. Been sharing that config between Debian, Ubuntu on WSL and Bazzite for a while and it’s served me well so far.
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      From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
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      \n
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      - No misinformation\n
      - No NSFW content\n
      - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
      \n
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      \n
      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
      \n
      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
      """
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      \n
      When you do this in Arch there’s no guarantee you get the same package versions and there’s no guarantee everything works
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      From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
      \n
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      \n
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      \n
      - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
      - No misinformation\n
      - No NSFW content\n
      - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
      \n
      ### Related Communities\n
      \n
      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
      \n
      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
      """
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      \n
      When you do this in Arch there’s no guarantee you get the same package versions and there’s no guarantee everything works
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    To add to this, another viable path is using Nix, the package manager, on its own. That way you can get Home Manager to manage your applications and dotfiles independently of your base system, as long as you are able to install Nix.\n
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2199
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      From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
      \n
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      \n
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      - No misinformation\n
      - No NSFW content\n
      - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
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      \n
      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
      \n
      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
      """
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      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2150
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      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
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      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2150
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      \n
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      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
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      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
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      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2150
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      \n
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      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
      \n
      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
      """
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2550
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null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
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      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
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      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
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      From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
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      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
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      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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null
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      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
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      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
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      - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
      \n
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      \n
      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
      \n
      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
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      From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
      \n
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      \n
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      \n
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      - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
      - No misinformation\n
      - No NSFW content\n
      - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
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      \n
      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
      \n
      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
      """
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#3022
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      From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
      \n
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      \n
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      \n
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      \n
      - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
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      - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
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      \n
      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
      \n
      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
      """
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#3022
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  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#307
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      From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
      \n
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      \n
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      \n
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      \n
      - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
      - No misinformation\n
      - No NSFW content\n
      - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
      \n
      ### Related Communities\n
      \n
      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
      \n
      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
      """
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#3219
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      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2624
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    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#288 …}
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      From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
      \n
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      \n
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      - No misinformation\n
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      \n
      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
      \n
      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
      """
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
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      \n
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      \n
      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
      \n
      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
      """
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2624
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      \n
      Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.\n
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      \n
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      \n
      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
      \n
      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
      """
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2699
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    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#288 …}
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      From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
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      \n
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      ### Rules\n
      \n
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      - No misinformation\n
      - No NSFW content\n
      - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
      \n
      ### Related Communities\n
      \n
      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
      \n
      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
      """
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2699
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      \n
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      \n
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      - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
      \n
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      \n
      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
      \n
      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
      """
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      \n
      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
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      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
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      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
      """
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
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      From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
      \n
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      \n
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      - No misinformation\n
      - No NSFW content\n
      - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
      \n
      ### Related Communities\n
      \n
      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
      \n
      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
      """
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    Exactly. A backup isn’t safe until it’s tested.\n
    \n
    I’ve been avoiding btrfs for reasons like that.
    """
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#3234
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      From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
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      \n
      Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.\n
      \n
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      \n
      - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
      - No misinformation\n
      - No NSFW content\n
      - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
      \n
      ### Related Communities\n
      \n
      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
      \n
      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
      """
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    Exactly. A backup isn’t safe until it’s tested.\n
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    I’ve been avoiding btrfs for reasons like that.
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
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      - No misinformation\n
      - No NSFW content\n
      - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
      \n
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      \n
      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
      \n
      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
      """
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    +body: "Make sure you test out those images every so often too. I recently got a new computer and used clonezilla to copy a system over, only to find btrfs restores fail spectacularly without warning until you boot into them."
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      "@PlasticExistence@lemmy.world"
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  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2699}
  +body: """
    Exactly. A backup isn’t safe until it’s tested.\n
    \n
    I’ve been avoiding btrfs for reasons like that.
    """
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2772
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      \n
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      \n
      Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.\n
      \n
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      - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
      - No misinformation\n
      - No NSFW content\n
      - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
      \n
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      \n
      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
      \n
      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
      """
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2772
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      \n
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      \n
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      - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
      - No misinformation\n
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      \n
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      \n
      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
      \n
      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
      """
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2772
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      From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
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      \n
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      ### Rules\n
      \n
      - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
      - No misinformation\n
      - No NSFW content\n
      - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
      \n
      ### Related Communities\n
      \n
      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
      \n
      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
      """
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2846
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      \n
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      - No misinformation\n
      - No NSFW content\n
      - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
      \n
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      \n
      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
      \n
      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
      """
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  +body: """
    I have a T480 and the battery will last me 2 days on a charge for my typical use. Since it has two batteries, I can swap the external one without having to plug in or shut down. There are lots of parts available and you can find used or refurbished laptops at a reasonable price.\n
    \n
    The downside with the T480 is a lack of PCIe lanes. The thunderbolt only has 2 lanes, which is not so good for an external GPU. The NVMe SSD is also only 2 lanes, but I still get around 1.5GB/s, which is plenty fast for me.
    """
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2919
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      From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
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      \n
      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
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      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2919
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      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
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      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
      """
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
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    - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
    - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
    - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
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    Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"

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