GET https://kbin.spritesserver.nl/m/linux@lemmy.ml/t/25177/KDE-s-Nate-Graham-On-X11-Being-A-Bad-Platform-and-The/active?p=2

Response
200 OK
IP
18.219.44.252
Profiled on
Token
9928f9

Security

Token

There is no security token.

Firewall

main Name
Security enabled
Stateless

Configuration

Key Value
provider security.user.provider.concrete.app_user_provider
context main
entry_point App\Security\KbinAuthenticator
user_checker App\Security\UserChecker
access_denied_handler (none)
access_denied_url (none)
authenticators 
[
  "two_factor"
  "remember_me"
  "App\Security\KbinAuthenticator"
  "App\Security\FacebookAuthenticator"
  "App\Security\GoogleAuthenticator"
  "App\Security\GithubAuthenticator"
  "App\Security\KeycloakAuthenticator"
]

Listeners

Listener Duration Response 
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\ChannelListener {#723
  -map: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\AccessMap {#722 …}
  -logger: Monolog\Logger {#783 …}
  -httpPort: 80
  -httpsPort: 443
}
 0.00 ms (none) 
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\ContextListener {#706
  -tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\TokenStorage {#1017 …}
  -sessionKey: "_security_main"
  -logger: Monolog\Logger {#783 …}
  -userProviders: Symfony\Component\DependencyInjection\Argument\RewindableGenerator {#705 …}
  -dispatcher: Symfony\Component\EventDispatcher\Debug\TraceableEventDispatcher {#747 …}
  -registered: false
  -trustResolver: Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authentication\AuthenticationTrustResolver {#780 …}
  -sessionTrackerEnabler: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage::enableUsageTracking(): void {#703 …}
}
 39.77 ms (none) 
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\AuthenticatorManagerListener {#584
  -authenticatorManager: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Authentication\AuthenticatorManager {#595 …}
}
 0.00 ms (none) 
Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Http\Firewall\TwoFactorAccessListener {#582
  -twoFactorFirewallConfig: Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\TwoFactor\TwoFactorFirewallConfig {#842 …}
  -tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage {#1018 …}
  -twoFactorAccessDecider: Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\TwoFactorAccessDecider {#581 …}
}
 0.11 ms (none) 
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\AccessListener {#579
  -tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage {#1018 …}
  -accessDecisionManager: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\TraceableAccessDecisionManager {#937 …}
  -map: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\AccessMap {#722 …}
}
 0.00 ms (none) 
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\LogoutListener {#786
  -tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage {#1018 …}
  -options: [
    "csrf_parameter" => "_csrf_token"
    "csrf_token_id" => "logout"
    "logout_path" => "app_logout"
  ]
  -httpUtils: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\HttpUtils {#841 …}
  -csrfTokenManager: Symfony\Component\Security\Csrf\CsrfTokenManager {#1015 …}
  -eventDispatcher: Symfony\Component\EventDispatcher\Debug\TraceableEventDispatcher {#747 …}
}
 0.00 ms (none)

Authenticators

No authenticators have been recorded. Check previous profiles on your authentication endpoint.

Access Decision

affirmative Strategy
# Voter class
1 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\AuthenticatedVoter"
2 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
3 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
4 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\ExpressionVoter"
5 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
6 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
7 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
8 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
9 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
10 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
11 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
12 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
13 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
14 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"

Access decision log

# Result Attributes Object
1 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
2 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\Entry {#2388
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1943 …}
  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#266
    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#247 …}
    +name: "linux@lemmy.ml"
    +title: "linux"
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      From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
      \n
      Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).\n
      \n
      Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.\n
      \n
      ### Rules\n
      \n
      - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
      - No misinformation\n
      - No NSFW content\n
      - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
      \n
      ### Related Communities\n
      \n
      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
      \n
      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
      """
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    +entryCount: 1406
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    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
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    +publicKey: null
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      date: 2024-10-22 09:53:16.0 +02:00
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    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1698929468 {#272
      date: 2023-11-02 13:51:08.0 +01:00
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  }
  +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#1962 …}
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#1924 …}
  +slug: "KDE-s-Nate-Graham-On-X11-Being-A-Bad-Platform-and-The"
  +title: "KDE's Nate Graham On X11 Being A Bad Platform & The Wayland Future"
  +url: "https://www.phoronix.com/news/Graham-X11-Bad-Platform"
  +body: """
    > Well known KDE developer Nate Graham is out with a blog post today outlining his latest Wayland thoughts, how X11 is a bad platform, and the recent topic of “Wayland breaking everything” isn’t really accurate.\n
    \n
    > “In this context, “breaking everything” is another perhaps less accurate way of saying “not everything is fully ported yet”. This porting is necessary because Wayland is designed to target a future that doesn’t include 100% drop-in compatibility with everything we did in the past, because it turns out that a lot of those things don’t make sense anymore. For the ones that do, a compatibility layer (XWayland) is already provided, and anything needing deeper system integration generally has a path forward (Portals and Wayland protocols and PipeWire) or is being actively worked on. It’s all happening!”\n
    \n
    [Nate’s Original Blog Post](https://pointieststick.com/2023/12/26/does-wayland-really-break-everything/)
    """
  +type: "link"
  +lang: "en"
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  +hasEmbed: false
  +commentCount: 177
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  +score: 0
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  +lastActive: DateTime @1711892999 {#2410
    date: 2024-03-31 15:49:59.0 +02:00
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  +ip: null
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  +tags: null
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  +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1886 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1973 …}
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  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2442 …}
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  +cross: false
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +ranking: 1703769948
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://lemmy.ndlug.org/post/523560"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703683548 {#1850
    date: 2023-12-27 14:25:48.0 +01:00
  }
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
3 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\Entry {#2388
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1943 …}
  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#266
    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#247 …}
    +name: "linux@lemmy.ml"
    +title: "linux"
    +description: """
      From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
      \n
      Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).\n
      \n
      Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.\n
      \n
      ### Rules\n
      \n
      - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
      - No misinformation\n
      - No NSFW content\n
      - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
      \n
      ### Related Communities\n
      \n
      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
      \n
      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
      """
    +rules: null
    +subscriptionsCount: 1
    +entryCount: 1406
    +entryCommentCount: 28632
    +postCount: 6
    +postCommentCount: 214
    +isAdult: false
    +customCss: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1729583542 {#276
      date: 2024-10-22 09:52:22.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +tags: null
    +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#238 …}
    +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#234 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#223 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#181 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#139 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#201 …}
    +bans: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#118 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#104 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#82 …}
    +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#72 …}
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    +apPreferredUsername: "linux"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1729583596 {#270
      date: 2024-10-22 09:53:16.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1698929468 {#272
      date: 2023-11-02 13:51:08.0 +01:00
    }
  }
  +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#1962 …}
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#1924 …}
  +slug: "KDE-s-Nate-Graham-On-X11-Being-A-Bad-Platform-and-The"
  +title: "KDE's Nate Graham On X11 Being A Bad Platform & The Wayland Future"
  +url: "https://www.phoronix.com/news/Graham-X11-Bad-Platform"
  +body: """
    > Well known KDE developer Nate Graham is out with a blog post today outlining his latest Wayland thoughts, how X11 is a bad platform, and the recent topic of “Wayland breaking everything” isn’t really accurate.\n
    \n
    > “In this context, “breaking everything” is another perhaps less accurate way of saying “not everything is fully ported yet”. This porting is necessary because Wayland is designed to target a future that doesn’t include 100% drop-in compatibility with everything we did in the past, because it turns out that a lot of those things don’t make sense anymore. For the ones that do, a compatibility layer (XWayland) is already provided, and anything needing deeper system integration generally has a path forward (Portals and Wayland protocols and PipeWire) or is being actively worked on. It’s all happening!”\n
    \n
    [Nate’s Original Blog Post](https://pointieststick.com/2023/12/26/does-wayland-really-break-everything/)
    """
  +type: "link"
  +lang: "en"
  +isOc: false
  +hasEmbed: false
  +commentCount: 177
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  +score: 0
  +isAdult: false
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  +lastActive: DateTime @1711892999 {#2410
    date: 2024-03-31 15:49:59.0 +02:00
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  +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1886 …}
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  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1927 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2442 …}
  +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2440 …}
  +children: []
  -id: 25177
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  -bodyTs: "'/2023/12/26/does-wayland-really-break-everything/)':145 '100':72 'accur':36,46 'activ':131 'alreadi':109 'anoth':43 'anymor':98 'anyth':112 'bad':23 'blog':11,141 'break':31,40 'compat':76,105 'context':39 'deeper':114 'design':63 'develop':4 'doesn':69 'drop':74 'drop-in':73 'everyth':32,41,51,78 'forward':121 'fulli':53 'futur':67 'general':117 'graham':6 'happen':137 'includ':71 'integr':116 'isn':33 'kde':3 'known':2 'latest':16 'layer':106 'less':45 'lot':90 'make':96 'nate':5,138 'necessari':59 'need':113 'one':101 'origin':140 'outlin':14 'past':83 'path':120 'perhap':44 'pipewir':127 'platform':24 'pointieststick.com':144 'pointieststick.com/2023/12/26/does-wayland-really-break-everything/)':143 'port':54,57 'portal':122 'post':12,142 'protocol':125 'provid':110 'realli':35 'recent':27 'say':49 'sens':97 'system':115 'target':65 'thing':93 'thought':18 'today':13 'topic':28 'turn':86 'way':47 'wayland':17,30,61,124 'well':1 'work':132 'x11':20 'xwayland':107 'yet':55"
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}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
4 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\Entry {#2388
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1943 …}
  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#266
    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#247 …}
    +name: "linux@lemmy.ml"
    +title: "linux"
    +description: """
      From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
      \n
      Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).\n
      \n
      Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.\n
      \n
      ### Rules\n
      \n
      - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
      - No misinformation\n
      - No NSFW content\n
      - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
      \n
      ### Related Communities\n
      \n
      - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
      - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
      - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
      - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
      \n
      Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
      """
    +rules: null
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    +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#238 …}
    +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#234 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#223 …}
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      [Nate’s Original Blog Post](https://pointieststick.com/2023/12/26/does-wayland-really-break-everything/)
      """
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        Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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      \n
      [Nate’s Original Blog Post](https://pointieststick.com/2023/12/26/does-wayland-really-break-everything/)
      """
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    Alternatively, instead of reading a Phoronix article that has a couple of short snippets from a much longer blog post, [you can read the original blog post yourself to see the full context](https://pointieststick.com/2023/12/26/does-wayland-really-break-everything/).\n
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        - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
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      > Well known KDE developer Nate Graham is out with a blog post today outlining his latest Wayland thoughts, how X11 is a bad platform, and the recent topic of “Wayland breaking everything” isn’t really accurate.\n
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      \n
      [Nate’s Original Blog Post](https://pointieststick.com/2023/12/26/does-wayland-really-break-everything/)
      """
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      Alternatively, instead of reading a Phoronix article that has a couple of short snippets from a much longer blog post, [you can read the original blog post yourself to see the full context](https://pointieststick.com/2023/12/26/does-wayland-really-break-everything/).\n
      \n
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  +body: """
    One of the specific issues from those who've worked with Wayland and is echoed here in Nate's other post that you mentioned.\n
    \n
    > Wayland has not been without its problems, it’s true. Because it was invented by shell-shocked X developers, in my opinion it went too far in the other direction.\n
    \n
    I tend to disagree. Had say the XDG stuff been specified in protocol, implementation of handlers for some of that XDG stuff would have been required in things that honestly wouldn't have needed them. I don't think infotainment systems need a concept of copy/paste but having to write:\n
    \n
    ```\n
    Some_Sort_Of_Return handle_copy(wl_surface *srf, wl_buffer* buf) {\n
    //Completely ignore this\n
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    }\n
    \n
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    \n
    Is really missing the point of starting fresh, is bytes in the binary that didn't need to be there, and while my example is pretty minimal for shits and giggles IRL would have been a great way to introduce "randomness" and "breakage" for those just wanting to ignore this entire aspect.\n
    \n
    But one of those agree to disagree. I think the level of hands off Wayland went was the correct amount. And now that we have things like `wlroots` even better, because if want to start there you can now start there and add what you need. XDG is XDG and if that's what you want, you can have it. But if you want your own way (because eff working nicely with GNOME and KDE, if that's your cup of tea) you've got all the rope in the world you will ever need.\n
    \n
    I get what Nate is saying, but things like XDG are just what happened with ICCCM. And when Wayland came in super lightweight, it allowed the inevitably of XDG to have lots of room to specify. ICCCM had to contort to fit around X. I don't know, but the way I like to think about it is like unsalted butter. Yes, my potato is likely going to need salt and butter. But I like unsalted butter because then if I want a pretty light salt potato, I'm not stuck with starting from salted butter's level of salt.\n
    \n
    I don't know, maybe I'm just weird like that.
    """
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        ### Related Communities\n
        \n
        - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
        - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
        - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
        - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
        \n
        Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
        """
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      > Well known KDE developer Nate Graham is out with a blog post today outlining his latest Wayland thoughts, how X11 is a bad platform, and the recent topic of “Wayland breaking everything” isn’t really accurate.\n
      \n
      > “In this context, “breaking everything” is another perhaps less accurate way of saying “not everything is fully ported yet”. This porting is necessary because Wayland is designed to target a future that doesn’t include 100% drop-in compatibility with everything we did in the past, because it turns out that a lot of those things don’t make sense anymore. For the ones that do, a compatibility layer (XWayland) is already provided, and anything needing deeper system integration generally has a path forward (Portals and Wayland protocols and PipeWire) or is being actively worked on. It’s all happening!”\n
      \n
      [Nate’s Original Blog Post](https://pointieststick.com/2023/12/26/does-wayland-really-break-everything/)
      """
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      Alternatively, instead of reading a Phoronix article that has a couple of short snippets from a much longer blog post, [you can read the original blog post yourself to see the full context](https://pointieststick.com/2023/12/26/does-wayland-really-break-everything/).\n
      \n
      Edit: Also, it is worth noting that the author of the original blog post had previously written [another relatively recent post criticizing the way in which Wayland was developed](https://pointieststick.com/2023/09/17/so-lets-talk-about-this-wayland-thing/), so it’s not like they are refusing to see its problems.
      """
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  +body: """
    One of the specific issues from those who've worked with Wayland and is echoed here in Nate's other post that you mentioned.\n
    \n
    > Wayland has not been without its problems, it’s true. Because it was invented by shell-shocked X developers, in my opinion it went too far in the other direction.\n
    \n
    I tend to disagree. Had say the XDG stuff been specified in protocol, implementation of handlers for some of that XDG stuff would have been required in things that honestly wouldn't have needed them. I don't think infotainment systems need a concept of copy/paste but having to write:\n
    \n
    ```\n
    Some_Sort_Of_Return handle_copy(wl_surface *srf, wl_buffer* buf) {\n
    //Completely ignore this\n
    return 0;\n
    }\n
    \n
    Some_Sort_Of_Return handle_paste(wl_surface *srf, wl_buffer* buf) {\n
    //Completely ignore this\n
    return 0;\n
    }\n
    \n
    ```\n
    \n
    Is really missing the point of starting fresh, is bytes in the binary that didn't need to be there, and while my example is pretty minimal for shits and giggles IRL would have been a great way to introduce "randomness" and "breakage" for those just wanting to ignore this entire aspect.\n
    \n
    But one of those agree to disagree. I think the level of hands off Wayland went was the correct amount. And now that we have things like `wlroots` even better, because if want to start there you can now start there and add what you need. XDG is XDG and if that's what you want, you can have it. But if you want your own way (because eff working nicely with GNOME and KDE, if that's your cup of tea) you've got all the rope in the world you will ever need.\n
    \n
    I get what Nate is saying, but things like XDG are just what happened with ICCCM. And when Wayland came in super lightweight, it allowed the inevitably of XDG to have lots of room to specify. ICCCM had to contort to fit around X. I don't know, but the way I like to think about it is like unsalted butter. Yes, my potato is likely going to need salt and butter. But I like unsalted butter because then if I want a pretty light salt potato, I'm not stuck with starting from salted butter's level of salt.\n
    \n
    I don't know, maybe I'm just weird like that.
    """
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        From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
        \n
        Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).\n
        \n
        Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.\n
        \n
        ### Rules\n
        \n
        - Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.\n
        - No misinformation\n
        - No NSFW content\n
        - No hate speech, bigotry, etc\n
        \n
        ### Related Communities\n
        \n
        - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
        - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
        - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
        - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
        \n
        Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
        """
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    +body: """
      > Well known KDE developer Nate Graham is out with a blog post today outlining his latest Wayland thoughts, how X11 is a bad platform, and the recent topic of “Wayland breaking everything” isn’t really accurate.\n
      \n
      > “In this context, “breaking everything” is another perhaps less accurate way of saying “not everything is fully ported yet”. This porting is necessary because Wayland is designed to target a future that doesn’t include 100% drop-in compatibility with everything we did in the past, because it turns out that a lot of those things don’t make sense anymore. For the ones that do, a compatibility layer (XWayland) is already provided, and anything needing deeper system integration generally has a path forward (Portals and Wayland protocols and PipeWire) or is being actively worked on. It’s all happening!”\n
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      [Nate’s Original Blog Post](https://pointieststick.com/2023/12/26/does-wayland-really-break-everything/)
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      Alternatively, instead of reading a Phoronix article that has a couple of short snippets from a much longer blog post, [you can read the original blog post yourself to see the full context](https://pointieststick.com/2023/12/26/does-wayland-really-break-everything/).\n
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  +body: """
    One of the specific issues from those who've worked with Wayland and is echoed here in Nate's other post that you mentioned.\n
    \n
    > Wayland has not been without its problems, it’s true. Because it was invented by shell-shocked X developers, in my opinion it went too far in the other direction.\n
    \n
    I tend to disagree. Had say the XDG stuff been specified in protocol, implementation of handlers for some of that XDG stuff would have been required in things that honestly wouldn't have needed them. I don't think infotainment systems need a concept of copy/paste but having to write:\n
    \n
    ```\n
    Some_Sort_Of_Return handle_copy(wl_surface *srf, wl_buffer* buf) {\n
    //Completely ignore this\n
    return 0;\n
    }\n
    \n
    Some_Sort_Of_Return handle_paste(wl_surface *srf, wl_buffer* buf) {\n
    //Completely ignore this\n
    return 0;\n
    }\n
    \n
    ```\n
    \n
    Is really missing the point of starting fresh, is bytes in the binary that didn't need to be there, and while my example is pretty minimal for shits and giggles IRL would have been a great way to introduce "randomness" and "breakage" for those just wanting to ignore this entire aspect.\n
    \n
    But one of those agree to disagree. I think the level of hands off Wayland went was the correct amount. And now that we have things like `wlroots` even better, because if want to start there you can now start there and add what you need. XDG is XDG and if that's what you want, you can have it. But if you want your own way (because eff working nicely with GNOME and KDE, if that's your cup of tea) you've got all the rope in the world you will ever need.\n
    \n
    I get what Nate is saying, but things like XDG are just what happened with ICCCM. And when Wayland came in super lightweight, it allowed the inevitably of XDG to have lots of room to specify. ICCCM had to contort to fit around X. I don't know, but the way I like to think about it is like unsalted butter. Yes, my potato is likely going to need salt and butter. But I like unsalted butter because then if I want a pretty light salt potato, I'm not stuck with starting from salted butter's level of salt.\n
    \n
    I don't know, maybe I'm just weird like that.
    """
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        From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\n
        \n
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        \n
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        - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
        - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
        - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
        \n
        Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
        """
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    +slug: "KDE-s-Nate-Graham-On-X11-Being-A-Bad-Platform-and-The"
    +title: "KDE's Nate Graham On X11 Being A Bad Platform & The Wayland Future"
    +url: "https://www.phoronix.com/news/Graham-X11-Bad-Platform"
    +body: """
      > Well known KDE developer Nate Graham is out with a blog post today outlining his latest Wayland thoughts, how X11 is a bad platform, and the recent topic of “Wayland breaking everything” isn’t really accurate.\n
      \n
      > “In this context, “breaking everything” is another perhaps less accurate way of saying “not everything is fully ported yet”. This porting is necessary because Wayland is designed to target a future that doesn’t include 100% drop-in compatibility with everything we did in the past, because it turns out that a lot of those things don’t make sense anymore. For the ones that do, a compatibility layer (XWayland) is already provided, and anything needing deeper system integration generally has a path forward (Portals and Wayland protocols and PipeWire) or is being actively worked on. It’s all happening!”\n
      \n
      [Nate’s Original Blog Post](https://pointieststick.com/2023/12/26/does-wayland-really-break-everything/)
      """
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      +body: """
        Alternatively, instead of reading a Phoronix article that has a couple of short snippets from a much longer blog post, [you can read the original blog post yourself to see the full context](https://pointieststick.com/2023/12/26/does-wayland-really-break-everything/).\n
        \n
        Edit: Also, it is worth noting that the author of the original blog post had previously written [another relatively recent post criticizing the way in which Wayland was developed](https://pointieststick.com/2023/09/17/so-lets-talk-about-this-wayland-thing/), so it’s not like they are refusing to see its problems.
        """
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    +body: """
      One of the specific issues from those who've worked with Wayland and is echoed here in Nate's other post that you mentioned.\n
      \n
      > Wayland has not been without its problems, it’s true. Because it was invented by shell-shocked X developers, in my opinion it went too far in the other direction.\n
      \n
      I tend to disagree. Had say the XDG stuff been specified in protocol, implementation of handlers for some of that XDG stuff would have been required in things that honestly wouldn't have needed them. I don't think infotainment systems need a concept of copy/paste but having to write:\n
      \n
      ```\n
      Some_Sort_Of_Return handle_copy(wl_surface *srf, wl_buffer* buf) {\n
      //Completely ignore this\n
      return 0;\n
      }\n
      \n
      Some_Sort_Of_Return handle_paste(wl_surface *srf, wl_buffer* buf) {\n
      //Completely ignore this\n
      return 0;\n
      }\n
      \n
      ```\n
      \n
      Is really missing the point of starting fresh, is bytes in the binary that didn't need to be there, and while my example is pretty minimal for shits and giggles IRL would have been a great way to introduce "randomness" and "breakage" for those just wanting to ignore this entire aspect.\n
      \n
      But one of those agree to disagree. I think the level of hands off Wayland went was the correct amount. And now that we have things like `wlroots` even better, because if want to start there you can now start there and add what you need. XDG is XDG and if that's what you want, you can have it. But if you want your own way (because eff working nicely with GNOME and KDE, if that's your cup of tea) you've got all the rope in the world you will ever need.\n
      \n
      I get what Nate is saying, but things like XDG are just what happened with ICCCM. And when Wayland came in super lightweight, it allowed the inevitably of XDG to have lots of room to specify. ICCCM had to contort to fit around X. I don't know, but the way I like to think about it is like unsalted butter. Yes, my potato is likely going to need salt and butter. But I like unsalted butter because then if I want a pretty light salt potato, I'm not stuck with starting from salted butter's level of salt.\n
      \n
      I don't know, maybe I'm just weird like that.
      """
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  +body: """
    > I don’t think infotainment systems need a concept of copy/paste but having to write:\n
    \n
    Having lived through the whole “phones don’t need copy and paste debate”, which fortunately got solved by now having it everywhere I’m in the camp “just stick that everywhere, just in case somebody might use it one day”
    """
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        - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
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    +title: "KDE's Nate Graham On X11 Being A Bad Platform & The Wayland Future"
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      [Nate’s Original Blog Post](https://pointieststick.com/2023/12/26/does-wayland-really-break-everything/)
      """
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      +body: """
        Alternatively, instead of reading a Phoronix article that has a couple of short snippets from a much longer blog post, [you can read the original blog post yourself to see the full context](https://pointieststick.com/2023/12/26/does-wayland-really-break-everything/).\n
        \n
        Edit: Also, it is worth noting that the author of the original blog post had previously written [another relatively recent post criticizing the way in which Wayland was developed](https://pointieststick.com/2023/09/17/so-lets-talk-about-this-wayland-thing/), so it’s not like they are refusing to see its problems.
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    +body: """
      One of the specific issues from those who've worked with Wayland and is echoed here in Nate's other post that you mentioned.\n
      \n
      > Wayland has not been without its problems, it’s true. Because it was invented by shell-shocked X developers, in my opinion it went too far in the other direction.\n
      \n
      I tend to disagree. Had say the XDG stuff been specified in protocol, implementation of handlers for some of that XDG stuff would have been required in things that honestly wouldn't have needed them. I don't think infotainment systems need a concept of copy/paste but having to write:\n
      \n
      ```\n
      Some_Sort_Of_Return handle_copy(wl_surface *srf, wl_buffer* buf) {\n
      //Completely ignore this\n
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      \n
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      \n
      Is really missing the point of starting fresh, is bytes in the binary that didn't need to be there, and while my example is pretty minimal for shits and giggles IRL would have been a great way to introduce "randomness" and "breakage" for those just wanting to ignore this entire aspect.\n
      \n
      But one of those agree to disagree. I think the level of hands off Wayland went was the correct amount. And now that we have things like `wlroots` even better, because if want to start there you can now start there and add what you need. XDG is XDG and if that's what you want, you can have it. But if you want your own way (because eff working nicely with GNOME and KDE, if that's your cup of tea) you've got all the rope in the world you will ever need.\n
      \n
      I get what Nate is saying, but things like XDG are just what happened with ICCCM. And when Wayland came in super lightweight, it allowed the inevitably of XDG to have lots of room to specify. ICCCM had to contort to fit around X. I don't know, but the way I like to think about it is like unsalted butter. Yes, my potato is likely going to need salt and butter. But I like unsalted butter because then if I want a pretty light salt potato, I'm not stuck with starting from salted butter's level of salt.\n
      \n
      I don't know, maybe I'm just weird like that.
      """
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    > I don’t think infotainment systems need a concept of copy/paste but having to write:\n
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    Having lived through the whole “phones don’t need copy and paste debate”, which fortunately got solved by now having it everywhere I’m in the camp “just stick that everywhere, just in case somebody might use it one day”
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        Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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    +title: "KDE's Nate Graham On X11 Being A Bad Platform & The Wayland Future"
    +url: "https://www.phoronix.com/news/Graham-X11-Bad-Platform"
    +body: """
      > Well known KDE developer Nate Graham is out with a blog post today outlining his latest Wayland thoughts, how X11 is a bad platform, and the recent topic of “Wayland breaking everything” isn’t really accurate.\n
      \n
      > “In this context, “breaking everything” is another perhaps less accurate way of saying “not everything is fully ported yet”. This porting is necessary because Wayland is designed to target a future that doesn’t include 100% drop-in compatibility with everything we did in the past, because it turns out that a lot of those things don’t make sense anymore. For the ones that do, a compatibility layer (XWayland) is already provided, and anything needing deeper system integration generally has a path forward (Portals and Wayland protocols and PipeWire) or is being actively worked on. It’s all happening!”\n
      \n
      [Nate’s Original Blog Post](https://pointieststick.com/2023/12/26/does-wayland-really-break-everything/)
      """
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      +body: """
        Alternatively, instead of reading a Phoronix article that has a couple of short snippets from a much longer blog post, [you can read the original blog post yourself to see the full context](https://pointieststick.com/2023/12/26/does-wayland-really-break-everything/).\n
        \n
        Edit: Also, it is worth noting that the author of the original blog post had previously written [another relatively recent post criticizing the way in which Wayland was developed](https://pointieststick.com/2023/09/17/so-lets-talk-about-this-wayland-thing/), so it’s not like they are refusing to see its problems.
        """
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    +body: """
      One of the specific issues from those who've worked with Wayland and is echoed here in Nate's other post that you mentioned.\n
      \n
      > Wayland has not been without its problems, it’s true. Because it was invented by shell-shocked X developers, in my opinion it went too far in the other direction.\n
      \n
      I tend to disagree. Had say the XDG stuff been specified in protocol, implementation of handlers for some of that XDG stuff would have been required in things that honestly wouldn't have needed them. I don't think infotainment systems need a concept of copy/paste but having to write:\n
      \n
      ```\n
      Some_Sort_Of_Return handle_copy(wl_surface *srf, wl_buffer* buf) {\n
      //Completely ignore this\n
      return 0;\n
      }\n
      \n
      Some_Sort_Of_Return handle_paste(wl_surface *srf, wl_buffer* buf) {\n
      //Completely ignore this\n
      return 0;\n
      }\n
      \n
      ```\n
      \n
      Is really missing the point of starting fresh, is bytes in the binary that didn't need to be there, and while my example is pretty minimal for shits and giggles IRL would have been a great way to introduce "randomness" and "breakage" for those just wanting to ignore this entire aspect.\n
      \n
      But one of those agree to disagree. I think the level of hands off Wayland went was the correct amount. And now that we have things like `wlroots` even better, because if want to start there you can now start there and add what you need. XDG is XDG and if that's what you want, you can have it. But if you want your own way (because eff working nicely with GNOME and KDE, if that's your cup of tea) you've got all the rope in the world you will ever need.\n
      \n
      I get what Nate is saying, but things like XDG are just what happened with ICCCM. And when Wayland came in super lightweight, it allowed the inevitably of XDG to have lots of room to specify. ICCCM had to contort to fit around X. I don't know, but the way I like to think about it is like unsalted butter. Yes, my potato is likely going to need salt and butter. But I like unsalted butter because then if I want a pretty light salt potato, I'm not stuck with starting from salted butter's level of salt.\n
      \n
      I don't know, maybe I'm just weird like that.
      """
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    > I don’t think infotainment systems need a concept of copy/paste but having to write:\n
    \n
    Having lived through the whole “phones don’t need copy and paste debate”, which fortunately got solved by now having it everywhere I’m in the camp “just stick that everywhere, just in case somebody might use it one day”
    """
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        - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
        - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
        - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
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    +body: """
      > Well known KDE developer Nate Graham is out with a blog post today outlining his latest Wayland thoughts, how X11 is a bad platform, and the recent topic of “Wayland breaking everything” isn’t really accurate.\n
      \n
      > “In this context, “breaking everything” is another perhaps less accurate way of saying “not everything is fully ported yet”. This porting is necessary because Wayland is designed to target a future that doesn’t include 100% drop-in compatibility with everything we did in the past, because it turns out that a lot of those things don’t make sense anymore. For the ones that do, a compatibility layer (XWayland) is already provided, and anything needing deeper system integration generally has a path forward (Portals and Wayland protocols and PipeWire) or is being actively worked on. It’s all happening!”\n
      \n
      [Nate’s Original Blog Post](https://pointieststick.com/2023/12/26/does-wayland-really-break-everything/)
      """
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      \n
      [Nate’s Original Blog Post](https://pointieststick.com/2023/12/26/does-wayland-really-break-everything/)
      """
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    Undoubtedly Wayland is the way forward and I think it’s a good thing. However I wouldn’t piss all over X because it served us well for many years. My LMDE 6 still runs X and probably will for the next 2 years at least because both the Mint Team and Debian team don’t rush into things. They are taking it slow, testing Wayland to make sure no-one’s system breaks when they switch to Wayland.\n
    \n
    This is the best approach. Eventually it will all be Wayland but I never understood why this is such an issue. Like any tech it’s progress, no need for heated debates. It’s just a windowing system after all.
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        \n
        - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
        - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
        - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
        - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
        \n
        Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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      \n
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      \n
      [Nate’s Original Blog Post](https://pointieststick.com/2023/12/26/does-wayland-really-break-everything/)
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        - [!opensource@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/opensource)\n
        - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
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        Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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        - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
        - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
        - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
        \n
        Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
        """
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    +body: """
      > Well known KDE developer Nate Graham is out with a blog post today outlining his latest Wayland thoughts, how X11 is a bad platform, and the recent topic of “Wayland breaking everything” isn’t really accurate.\n
      \n
      > “In this context, “breaking everything” is another perhaps less accurate way of saying “not everything is fully ported yet”. This porting is necessary because Wayland is designed to target a future that doesn’t include 100% drop-in compatibility with everything we did in the past, because it turns out that a lot of those things don’t make sense anymore. For the ones that do, a compatibility layer (XWayland) is already provided, and anything needing deeper system integration generally has a path forward (Portals and Wayland protocols and PipeWire) or is being actively worked on. It’s all happening!”\n
      \n
      [Nate’s Original Blog Post](https://pointieststick.com/2023/12/26/does-wayland-really-break-everything/)
      """
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    Eh, I always discredit people when they say X is bad.\n
    \n
    It’s been around for over 20 years. That kind of longevity should be praised.
    """
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        \n
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        - [!libre_culture@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_culture)\n
        - [!technology@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/technology)\n
        - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
        \n
        Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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      \n
      [Nate’s Original Blog Post](https://pointieststick.com/2023/12/26/does-wayland-really-break-everything/)
      """
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  +body: "I love Wayland until I don’t. I honestly don’t think about it, it gets out of my way and my system is stable, until I go to use something like scrcpy that just doesn’t work at all. Luckily, the amount of things that straight up don’t work is shrinking."
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        \n
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        - [!libre_hardware@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/libre_hardware)\n
        \n
        Community icon by [Alpár-Etele Méder](https://www.iconfinder.com/pocike), licensed under [CC BY 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
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      """
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    Because Wayland is only a protocol and you write the platform yourself (be it badly or not).\n
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