GET https://kbin.spritesserver.nl/u/@lemmyvore@feddit.nl/newest/1y?p=9

Response
200 OK
IP
3.141.28.107
Profiled on
Token
9f225e

Security

Token

There is no security token.

Firewall

main Name
Security enabled
Stateless

Configuration

Key Value
provider security.user.provider.concrete.app_user_provider
context main
entry_point App\Security\KbinAuthenticator
user_checker App\Security\UserChecker
access_denied_handler (none)
access_denied_url (none)
authenticators 
[
  "two_factor"
  "remember_me"
  "App\Security\KbinAuthenticator"
  "App\Security\FacebookAuthenticator"
  "App\Security\GoogleAuthenticator"
  "App\Security\GithubAuthenticator"
  "App\Security\KeycloakAuthenticator"
]

Listeners

Listener Duration Response 
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\ChannelListener {#723
  -map: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\AccessMap {#722 …}
  -logger: Monolog\Logger {#783 …}
  -httpPort: 80
  -httpsPort: 443
}
 0.00 ms (none) 
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\ContextListener {#706
  -tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\TokenStorage {#1017 …}
  -sessionKey: "_security_main"
  -logger: Monolog\Logger {#783 …}
  -userProviders: Symfony\Component\DependencyInjection\Argument\RewindableGenerator {#705 …}
  -dispatcher: Symfony\Component\EventDispatcher\Debug\TraceableEventDispatcher {#747 …}
  -registered: false
  -trustResolver: Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authentication\AuthenticationTrustResolver {#780 …}
  -sessionTrackerEnabler: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage::enableUsageTracking(): void {#703 …}
}
 0.29 ms (none) 
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\AuthenticatorManagerListener {#584
  -authenticatorManager: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Authentication\AuthenticatorManager {#595 …}
}
 0.00 ms (none) 
Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Http\Firewall\TwoFactorAccessListener {#582
  -twoFactorFirewallConfig: Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\TwoFactor\TwoFactorFirewallConfig {#842 …}
  -tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage {#1018 …}
  -twoFactorAccessDecider: Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\TwoFactorAccessDecider {#581 …}
}
 0.06 ms (none) 
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\AccessListener {#579
  -tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage {#1018 …}
  -accessDecisionManager: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\TraceableAccessDecisionManager {#937 …}
  -map: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\AccessMap {#722 …}
}
 0.00 ms (none) 
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\LogoutListener {#786
  -tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage {#1018 …}
  -options: [
    "csrf_parameter" => "_csrf_token"
    "csrf_token_id" => "logout"
    "logout_path" => "app_logout"
  ]
  -httpUtils: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\HttpUtils {#841 …}
  -csrfTokenManager: Symfony\Component\Security\Csrf\CsrfTokenManager {#1015 …}
  -eventDispatcher: Symfony\Component\EventDispatcher\Debug\TraceableEventDispatcher {#747 …}
}
 0.00 ms (none)

Authenticators

No authenticators have been recorded. Check previous profiles on your authentication endpoint.

Access Decision

affirmative Strategy
# Voter class
1 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\AuthenticatedVoter"
2 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
3 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
4 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\ExpressionVoter"
5 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
6 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
7 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
8 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
9 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
10 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
11 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
12 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
13 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
14 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"

Access decision log

# Result Attributes Object
1 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
2 DENIED moderate 
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2217
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2713 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1596 …}
  +image: null
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2938 …}
  +slug: "How-is-the-piracy-experience-on-an-iPad"
  +title: "How is the piracy experience on an iPad ?"
  +url: null
  +body: "So I am planning on buying an ipad, never owned one before. I have always been an android guy and from what I have heard Ipad os or ios is pretty restrictive in nature so I was wondering how much does it hamper the piracy experience. For example on android I can torrent files of any nature or size without any restrictions and sideload the apk’s of paid apps to enjoy them for free, can I still do all this on an ipad or should I just drop the idea and get an android tablet instead ?"
  +type: "article"
  +lang: "en"
  +isOc: false
  +hasEmbed: false
  +commentCount: 49
  +favouriteCount: 46
  +score: 0
  +isAdult: false
  +sticky: false
  +lastActive: DateTime @1700800691 {#2239
    date: 2023-11-24 05:38:11.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +adaAmount: 0
  +tags: null
  +mentions: null
  +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2937 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2935 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2932 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2966 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2962 …}
  +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2979 …}
  +children: [
    App\Entity\EntryComment {#2219
      +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2217 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1596 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: null
      +root: null
      +body: "Torrent clients are banned from the Apple Store and you can’t sideload apps. It’s a very restrictive device in many respects."
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 57
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1701182177 {#2222
        date: 2023-11-28 15:36:17.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@B3_CHAD@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2196 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2194 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2193 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2205 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2202 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2210 …}
      -id: 145441
      -bodyTs: "'app':14 'appl':7 'ban':4 'client':2 'devic':20 'mani':22 'respect':23 'restrict':19 'sideload':13 'store':8 'torrent':1"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://feddit.nl/comment/4751136"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700543471 {#2221
        date: 2023-11-21 06:11:11.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 145441
    }
  ]
  -id: 14978
  -titleTs: "'experi':5 'ipad':8 'piraci':4"
  -bodyTs: "'alway':15 'android':18,50,95 'apk':66 'app':70 'buy':6 'drop':89 'enjoy':72 'exampl':48 'experi':46 'file':54 'free':75 'get':93 'guy':19 'hamper':43 'heard':25 'idea':91 'instead':97 'io':29 'ipad':8,26,84 'much':40 'natur':34,57 'never':9 'one':11 'os':27 'own':10 'paid':69 'piraci':45 'plan':4 'pretti':31 'restrict':32,62 'sideload':64 'size':59 'still':78 'tablet':96 'torrent':53 'without':60 'wonder':38"
  +cross: false
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +ranking: 1700629190
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/8817631"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700542790 {#2818
    date: 2023-11-21 05:59:50.0 +01:00
  }
  +__isInitialized__: true
   …2
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
3 DENIED edit 
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2217
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2713 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1596 …}
  +image: null
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2938 …}
  +slug: "How-is-the-piracy-experience-on-an-iPad"
  +title: "How is the piracy experience on an iPad ?"
  +url: null
  +body: "So I am planning on buying an ipad, never owned one before. I have always been an android guy and from what I have heard Ipad os or ios is pretty restrictive in nature so I was wondering how much does it hamper the piracy experience. For example on android I can torrent files of any nature or size without any restrictions and sideload the apk’s of paid apps to enjoy them for free, can I still do all this on an ipad or should I just drop the idea and get an android tablet instead ?"
  +type: "article"
  +lang: "en"
  +isOc: false
  +hasEmbed: false
  +commentCount: 49
  +favouriteCount: 46
  +score: 0
  +isAdult: false
  +sticky: false
  +lastActive: DateTime @1700800691 {#2239
    date: 2023-11-24 05:38:11.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +adaAmount: 0
  +tags: null
  +mentions: null
  +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2937 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2935 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2932 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2966 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2962 …}
  +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2979 …}
  +children: [
    App\Entity\EntryComment {#2219
      +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2217 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1596 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: null
      +root: null
      +body: "Torrent clients are banned from the Apple Store and you can’t sideload apps. It’s a very restrictive device in many respects."
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 57
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1701182177 {#2222
        date: 2023-11-28 15:36:17.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@B3_CHAD@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2196 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2194 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2193 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2205 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2202 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2210 …}
      -id: 145441
      -bodyTs: "'app':14 'appl':7 'ban':4 'client':2 'devic':20 'mani':22 'respect':23 'restrict':19 'sideload':13 'store':8 'torrent':1"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://feddit.nl/comment/4751136"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700543471 {#2221
        date: 2023-11-21 06:11:11.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 145441
    }
  ]
  -id: 14978
  -titleTs: "'experi':5 'ipad':8 'piraci':4"
  -bodyTs: "'alway':15 'android':18,50,95 'apk':66 'app':70 'buy':6 'drop':89 'enjoy':72 'exampl':48 'experi':46 'file':54 'free':75 'get':93 'guy':19 'hamper':43 'heard':25 'idea':91 'instead':97 'io':29 'ipad':8,26,84 'much':40 'natur':34,57 'never':9 'one':11 'os':27 'own':10 'paid':69 'piraci':45 'plan':4 'pretti':31 'restrict':32,62 'sideload':64 'size':59 'still':78 'tablet':96 'torrent':53 'without':60 'wonder':38"
  +cross: false
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +ranking: 1700629190
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/8817631"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700542790 {#2818
    date: 2023-11-21 05:59:50.0 +01:00
  }
  +__isInitialized__: true
   …2
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
4 DENIED moderate 
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2217
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2713 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1596 …}
  +image: null
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2938 …}
  +slug: "How-is-the-piracy-experience-on-an-iPad"
  +title: "How is the piracy experience on an iPad ?"
  +url: null
  +body: "So I am planning on buying an ipad, never owned one before. I have always been an android guy and from what I have heard Ipad os or ios is pretty restrictive in nature so I was wondering how much does it hamper the piracy experience. For example on android I can torrent files of any nature or size without any restrictions and sideload the apk’s of paid apps to enjoy them for free, can I still do all this on an ipad or should I just drop the idea and get an android tablet instead ?"
  +type: "article"
  +lang: "en"
  +isOc: false
  +hasEmbed: false
  +commentCount: 49
  +favouriteCount: 46
  +score: 0
  +isAdult: false
  +sticky: false
  +lastActive: DateTime @1700800691 {#2239
    date: 2023-11-24 05:38:11.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +adaAmount: 0
  +tags: null
  +mentions: null
  +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2937 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2935 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2932 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2966 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2962 …}
  +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2979 …}
  +children: [
    App\Entity\EntryComment {#2219
      +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2217 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1596 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: null
      +root: null
      +body: "Torrent clients are banned from the Apple Store and you can’t sideload apps. It’s a very restrictive device in many respects."
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 57
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1701182177 {#2222
        date: 2023-11-28 15:36:17.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@B3_CHAD@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2196 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2194 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2193 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2205 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2202 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2210 …}
      -id: 145441
      -bodyTs: "'app':14 'appl':7 'ban':4 'client':2 'devic':20 'mani':22 'respect':23 'restrict':19 'sideload':13 'store':8 'torrent':1"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://feddit.nl/comment/4751136"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700543471 {#2221
        date: 2023-11-21 06:11:11.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 145441
    }
  ]
  -id: 14978
  -titleTs: "'experi':5 'ipad':8 'piraci':4"
  -bodyTs: "'alway':15 'android':18,50,95 'apk':66 'app':70 'buy':6 'drop':89 'enjoy':72 'exampl':48 'experi':46 'file':54 'free':75 'get':93 'guy':19 'hamper':43 'heard':25 'idea':91 'instead':97 'io':29 'ipad':8,26,84 'much':40 'natur':34,57 'never':9 'one':11 'os':27 'own':10 'paid':69 'piraci':45 'plan':4 'pretti':31 'restrict':32,62 'sideload':64 'size':59 'still':78 'tablet':96 'torrent':53 'without':60 'wonder':38"
  +cross: false
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +ranking: 1700629190
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/8817631"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700542790 {#2818
    date: 2023-11-21 05:59:50.0 +01:00
  }
  +__isInitialized__: true
   …2
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
5 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
6 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2219
  +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2217
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2713 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1596 …}
    +image: null
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2938 …}
    +slug: "How-is-the-piracy-experience-on-an-iPad"
    +title: "How is the piracy experience on an iPad ?"
    +url: null
    +body: "So I am planning on buying an ipad, never owned one before. I have always been an android guy and from what I have heard Ipad os or ios is pretty restrictive in nature so I was wondering how much does it hamper the piracy experience. For example on android I can torrent files of any nature or size without any restrictions and sideload the apk’s of paid apps to enjoy them for free, can I still do all this on an ipad or should I just drop the idea and get an android tablet instead ?"
    +type: "article"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: false
    +commentCount: 49
    +favouriteCount: 46
    +score: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +sticky: false
    +lastActive: DateTime @1700800691 {#2239
      date: 2023-11-24 05:38:11.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2937 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2935 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2932 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2966 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2962 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2979 …}
    +children: [
      App\Entity\EntryComment {#2219}
    ]
    -id: 14978
    -titleTs: "'experi':5 'ipad':8 'piraci':4"
    -bodyTs: "'alway':15 'android':18,50,95 'apk':66 'app':70 'buy':6 'drop':89 'enjoy':72 'exampl':48 'experi':46 'file':54 'free':75 'get':93 'guy':19 'hamper':43 'heard':25 'idea':91 'instead':97 'io':29 'ipad':8,26,84 'much':40 'natur':34,57 'never':9 'one':11 'os':27 'own':10 'paid':69 'piraci':45 'plan':4 'pretti':31 'restrict':32,62 'sideload':64 'size':59 'still':78 'tablet':96 'torrent':53 'without':60 'wonder':38"
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1700629190
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/8817631"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700542790 {#2818
      date: 2023-11-21 05:59:50.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1596 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: null
  +root: null
  +body: "Torrent clients are banned from the Apple Store and you can’t sideload apps. It’s a very restrictive device in many respects."
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 57
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1701182177 {#2222
    date: 2023-11-28 15:36:17.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@B3_CHAD@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2196 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2194 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2193 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2205 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2202 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2210 …}
  -id: 145441
  -bodyTs: "'app':14 'appl':7 'ban':4 'client':2 'devic':20 'mani':22 'respect':23 'restrict':19 'sideload':13 'store':8 'torrent':1"
  +ranking: 0
  +commentCount: 0
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://feddit.nl/comment/4751136"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700543471 {#2221
    date: 2023-11-21 06:11:11.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 145441
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
7 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2219
  +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2217
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2713 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1596 …}
    +image: null
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2938 …}
    +slug: "How-is-the-piracy-experience-on-an-iPad"
    +title: "How is the piracy experience on an iPad ?"
    +url: null
    +body: "So I am planning on buying an ipad, never owned one before. I have always been an android guy and from what I have heard Ipad os or ios is pretty restrictive in nature so I was wondering how much does it hamper the piracy experience. For example on android I can torrent files of any nature or size without any restrictions and sideload the apk’s of paid apps to enjoy them for free, can I still do all this on an ipad or should I just drop the idea and get an android tablet instead ?"
    +type: "article"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: false
    +commentCount: 49
    +favouriteCount: 46
    +score: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +sticky: false
    +lastActive: DateTime @1700800691 {#2239
      date: 2023-11-24 05:38:11.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2937 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2935 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2932 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2966 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2962 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2979 …}
    +children: [
      App\Entity\EntryComment {#2219}
    ]
    -id: 14978
    -titleTs: "'experi':5 'ipad':8 'piraci':4"
    -bodyTs: "'alway':15 'android':18,50,95 'apk':66 'app':70 'buy':6 'drop':89 'enjoy':72 'exampl':48 'experi':46 'file':54 'free':75 'get':93 'guy':19 'hamper':43 'heard':25 'idea':91 'instead':97 'io':29 'ipad':8,26,84 'much':40 'natur':34,57 'never':9 'one':11 'os':27 'own':10 'paid':69 'piraci':45 'plan':4 'pretti':31 'restrict':32,62 'sideload':64 'size':59 'still':78 'tablet':96 'torrent':53 'without':60 'wonder':38"
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1700629190
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/8817631"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700542790 {#2818
      date: 2023-11-21 05:59:50.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1596 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: null
  +root: null
  +body: "Torrent clients are banned from the Apple Store and you can’t sideload apps. It’s a very restrictive device in many respects."
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 57
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1701182177 {#2222
    date: 2023-11-28 15:36:17.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@B3_CHAD@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2196 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2194 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2193 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2205 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2202 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2210 …}
  -id: 145441
  -bodyTs: "'app':14 'appl':7 'ban':4 'client':2 'devic':20 'mani':22 'respect':23 'restrict':19 'sideload':13 'store':8 'torrent':1"
  +ranking: 0
  +commentCount: 0
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://feddit.nl/comment/4751136"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700543471 {#2221
    date: 2023-11-21 06:11:11.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 145441
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
8 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2219
  +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2217
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2713 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1596 …}
    +image: null
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2938 …}
    +slug: "How-is-the-piracy-experience-on-an-iPad"
    +title: "How is the piracy experience on an iPad ?"
    +url: null
    +body: "So I am planning on buying an ipad, never owned one before. I have always been an android guy and from what I have heard Ipad os or ios is pretty restrictive in nature so I was wondering how much does it hamper the piracy experience. For example on android I can torrent files of any nature or size without any restrictions and sideload the apk’s of paid apps to enjoy them for free, can I still do all this on an ipad or should I just drop the idea and get an android tablet instead ?"
    +type: "article"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: false
    +commentCount: 49
    +favouriteCount: 46
    +score: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +sticky: false
    +lastActive: DateTime @1700800691 {#2239
      date: 2023-11-24 05:38:11.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2937 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2935 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2932 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2966 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2962 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2979 …}
    +children: [
      App\Entity\EntryComment {#2219}
    ]
    -id: 14978
    -titleTs: "'experi':5 'ipad':8 'piraci':4"
    -bodyTs: "'alway':15 'android':18,50,95 'apk':66 'app':70 'buy':6 'drop':89 'enjoy':72 'exampl':48 'experi':46 'file':54 'free':75 'get':93 'guy':19 'hamper':43 'heard':25 'idea':91 'instead':97 'io':29 'ipad':8,26,84 'much':40 'natur':34,57 'never':9 'one':11 'os':27 'own':10 'paid':69 'piraci':45 'plan':4 'pretti':31 'restrict':32,62 'sideload':64 'size':59 'still':78 'tablet':96 'torrent':53 'without':60 'wonder':38"
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1700629190
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/8817631"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700542790 {#2818
      date: 2023-11-21 05:59:50.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1596 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: null
  +root: null
  +body: "Torrent clients are banned from the Apple Store and you can’t sideload apps. It’s a very restrictive device in many respects."
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 57
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1701182177 {#2222
    date: 2023-11-28 15:36:17.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@B3_CHAD@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2196 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2194 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2193 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2205 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2202 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2210 …}
  -id: 145441
  -bodyTs: "'app':14 'appl':7 'ban':4 'client':2 'devic':20 'mani':22 'respect':23 'restrict':19 'sideload':13 'store':8 'torrent':1"
  +ranking: 0
  +commentCount: 0
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://feddit.nl/comment/4751136"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700543471 {#2221
    date: 2023-11-21 06:11:11.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 145441
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
9 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
10 DENIED moderate 
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2191
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2541 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
  +image: null
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2938 …}
  +slug: "Package-up-and-transport-a-linux"
  +title: "Package up and transport a linux?"
  +url: null
  +body: """
    I have a simple wish, with a probably not so simple solution.\n
    \n
    I recently started with linux (Arch kde), I’m loving it, I quickly realized that this OS and almost all apps, are highly customizable, I’m laving that as well. My problem is the unavoidable reinstalls and that I have a laptop.\n
    \n
    Is there any way that I can save all my configs, apps and my apps’ configs, and transfer them over to my laptop, while almost having a very quick back-up. I realize that I could turn it into an ISO somehow, but that wouldn’t work (I think) because my laptop has vastly different hardware. I also realize the partitioning problem. So in my idealistic world, there should be a solution that requires a clean install (from scripts or manual) and some .sh file, that installs all my apps, pastes all my configs and reboots.\n
    \n
    So is this possible? and if yes, how should I go about this? did someone make a tool for this already? Or(!) can I burn it to a flash and the drivers will correct themselves/I’ll deal with them later?\n
    \n
    For final words I’d like to say that I’m far from finished configurating, but I’d like to know the proccess, to not shoot myself in the foot somewhere along the way of configing, thanks!
    """
  +type: "article"
  +lang: "en"
  +isOc: false
  +hasEmbed: false
  +commentCount: 58
  +favouriteCount: 51
  +score: 0
  +isAdult: false
  +sticky: false
  +lastActive: DateTime @1700580681 {#3054
    date: 2023-11-21 16:31:21.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +adaAmount: 0
  +tags: null
  +mentions: null
  +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3005 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3061 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3063 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3065 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3067 …}
  +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3069 …}
  +children: [
    1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2326
      +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2191 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2325 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2327 …}
      +body: """
        > if I copy my /home (someone said /etc too) over to my laptop, and back it up as well, I’m golden?\n
        \n
        /home yes., but ideally only files and dirs starting with a dot (so called “dotfiles” under your home dir. `tar cvfa homedots.tar.gz /home/username/.??*` should take care of it.\n
        \n
        Please note it will include some large stuff that’s probably not needed, like .cache, or some individual caches for other apps that don’t use .cache, like the browsers.\n
        \n
        Don’t copy /etc, it’s usually machine-specific.\n
        \n
        > would different hostnames and usernames make a problem?\n
        \n
        Hostname no (if you don’t bring etc). Username technically yes, you may want to rename the home dir. The user id and group id are important too but usually off it’s the first user on the same distro it will receive the same ids (typically 1000 nowadays). If not, you can change that manually and recursively `chown 1000:1000 -r /home/username`.
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 12
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1700462066 {#2289
        date: 2023-11-20 07:34:26.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@UnRelatedBurner@sh.itjust.works"
        "@bizdelnick@lemmy.ml"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2329 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2323 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2300 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2340 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2342 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2343 …}
      -id: 142174
      -bodyTs: "'/etc':8,84 '/home':5,23 '/home/username':45,161 '1000':146,158,159 'app':72 'back':15 'bring':105 'browser':80 'cach':65,69,77 'call':36 'care':48 'chang':152 'chown':157 'copi':3,83 'cvfa':43 'differ':92 'dir':30,41,117 'distro':138 'dot':34 'dotfil':37 'etc':106 'file':28 'first':133 'golden':22 'group':122 'home':40,116 'homedots.tar.gz':44 'hostnam':93,99 'id':120,123,144 'ideal':26 'import':125 'includ':55 'individu':68 'laptop':13 'larg':57 'like':64,78 'm':21 'machin':89 'machine-specif':88 'make':96 'manual':154 'may':111 'need':63 'note':52 'nowaday':147 'pleas':51 'probabl':61 'problem':98 'r':160 'receiv':141 'recurs':156 'renam':114 'said':7 'someon':6 'specif':90 'start':31 'stuff':58 'take':47 'tar':42 'technic':108 'typic':145 'use':76 'user':119,134 'usernam':95,107 'usual':87,128 'want':112 'well':19 'would':91 'yes':24,109"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://feddit.nl/comment/4725105"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700462066 {#2328
        date: 2023-11-20 07:34:26.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 142174
    }
    0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2049
      +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2191 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2048 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2327 …}
      +body: """
        You’re welcome.\n
        \n
        To clarify, /etc can have things that are relevant for the machine so you may want to back it up, but it’s not usually transferrable directly to another machine because it probably doesn’t play the exact same role. It has things like service configs, network configs etc.\n
        \n
        Even if you’re trying to migrate a machine to new hardware and the machine will play the same role it’s best to pick and choose files from /etc/ on a case by case basis. What I do is grab a tarball of /etc and set it aside, then if I need to redo something the same way it was on the old machine I can dig through the tarball and only use the relevant files.\n
        \n
        Like I said it’s extremely specific. For example if I want to reconfigure the SSH daemon that’s usually a couple of lines which I know by heart (turn root login and password logins off) which I can do by hand; if I want to reconfigure CUPS printing it’s best to use the CUPS admin interface to autodetect the printer, you don’t usually want to mess with its config files; for some things like /etc/fstab or NFS or RAID I *may* want to copy some stuff but edit the disk UUIDs; for some things like Samba I could in theory copy the config straight over. It varies.\n
        \n
        The list of installed packages may also be relevant when you migrate to a new machine. Different distros have different commands for obtaining a list of installed packages, and different ways of using that on the new machine to restore the same package selection. This is useful and typically can get you started much faster on the new machine.
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 3
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1700470013 {#2067
        date: 2023-11-20 09:46:53.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@UnRelatedBurner@sh.itjust.works"
        "@bizdelnick@lemmy.ml"
        "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2051 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2059 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2047 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2057 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2055 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2054 …}
      -id: 142346
      -bodyTs: "'/etc':6,82,97 '/etc/fstab':207 'admin':186 'also':246 'anoth':32 'asid':101 'autodetect':189 'back':21 'basi':88 'best':75,181 'case':85,87 'choos':79 'clarifi':5 'command':260 'config':49,51,201,235 'copi':216,233 'could':230 'coupl':151 'cup':177,185 'daemon':146 'differ':256,259,269 'dig':120 'direct':30 'disk':222 'distro':257 'doesn':37 'edit':220 'etc':52 'even':53 'exact':41 'exampl':138 'extrem':135 'faster':294 'file':80,129,202 'get':290 'grab':93 'hand':171 'hardwar':64 'heart':158 'instal':243,266 'interfac':187 'know':156 'like':47,130,206,227 'line':153 'list':241,264 'login':161,164 'machin':15,33,61,67,117,255,277,298 'may':18,213,245 'mess':198 'migrat':59,251 'much':293 'need':105 'network':50 'new':63,254,276,297 'nfs':209 'obtain':262 'old':116 'packag':244,267,282 'password':163 'pick':77 'play':39,69 'print':178 'printer':191 'probabl':36 'raid':211 're':2,56 'reconfigur':143,176 'redo':107 'relev':12,128,248 'restor':279 'role':43,72 'root':160 'said':132 'samba':228 'select':283 'servic':48 'set':99 'someth':108 'specif':136 'ssh':145 'start':292 'straight':236 'stuff':218 'tarbal':95,123 'theori':232 'thing':9,46,205,226 'transferr':29 'tri':57 'turn':159 'typic':288 'use':126,183,272,286 'usual':28,149,195 'uuid':223 'vari':239 'want':19,141,174,196,214 'way':111,270 'welcom':3"
      +ranking: 0
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      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://feddit.nl/comment/4726574"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700470013 {#2070
        date: 2023-11-20 09:46:53.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 142346
    }
  ]
  -id: 14526
  -titleTs: "'linux':6 'packag':1 'transport':4"
  -bodyTs: "'almost':31,79 'along':223 'alreadi':172 'also':113 'app':33,66,69,145 'arch':18 'back':85 'back-up':84 'burn':176 'clean':131 'config':65,70,149,227 'configur':206 'correct':185 'could':91 'customiz':36 'd':196,209 'deal':188 'differ':110 'driver':183 'far':203 'file':140 'final':193 'finish':205 'flash':180 'foot':221 'go':162 'hardwar':111 'high':35 'idealist':121 'instal':132,142 'iso':96 'kde':19 'know':212 'laptop':54,77,107 'later':191 'lave':39 'like':197,210 'linux':17 'll':187 'love':22 'm':21,38,202 'make':167 'manual':136 'os':29 'partit':116 'past':146 'possibl':155 'probabl':8 'problem':44,117 'proccess':214 'quick':25,83 'realiz':26,88,114 'reboot':151 'recent':14 'reinstal':48 'requir':129 'save':62 'say':199 'script':134 'sh':139 'shoot':217 'simpl':4,11 'solut':12,127 'somehow':97 'someon':166 'somewher':222 'start':15 'thank':228 'themselves/i':186 'think':104 'tool':169 'transfer':72 'turn':92 'unavoid':47 'vast':109 'way':58,225 'well':42 'wish':5 'word':194 'work':102 'world':122 'wouldn':100 'yes':158"
  +cross: false
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +ranking: 1700514431
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/post/9493386"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700428031 {#3043
    date: 2023-11-19 22:07:11.0 +01:00
  }
  +__isInitialized__: true
   …2
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
11 DENIED edit 
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2191
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2541 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
  +image: null
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2938 …}
  +slug: "Package-up-and-transport-a-linux"
  +title: "Package up and transport a linux?"
  +url: null
  +body: """
    I have a simple wish, with a probably not so simple solution.\n
    \n
    I recently started with linux (Arch kde), I’m loving it, I quickly realized that this OS and almost all apps, are highly customizable, I’m laving that as well. My problem is the unavoidable reinstalls and that I have a laptop.\n
    \n
    Is there any way that I can save all my configs, apps and my apps’ configs, and transfer them over to my laptop, while almost having a very quick back-up. I realize that I could turn it into an ISO somehow, but that wouldn’t work (I think) because my laptop has vastly different hardware. I also realize the partitioning problem. So in my idealistic world, there should be a solution that requires a clean install (from scripts or manual) and some .sh file, that installs all my apps, pastes all my configs and reboots.\n
    \n
    So is this possible? and if yes, how should I go about this? did someone make a tool for this already? Or(!) can I burn it to a flash and the drivers will correct themselves/I’ll deal with them later?\n
    \n
    For final words I’d like to say that I’m far from finished configurating, but I’d like to know the proccess, to not shoot myself in the foot somewhere along the way of configing, thanks!
    """
  +type: "article"
  +lang: "en"
  +isOc: false
  +hasEmbed: false
  +commentCount: 58
  +favouriteCount: 51
  +score: 0
  +isAdult: false
  +sticky: false
  +lastActive: DateTime @1700580681 {#3054
    date: 2023-11-21 16:31:21.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +adaAmount: 0
  +tags: null
  +mentions: null
  +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3005 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3061 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3063 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3065 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3067 …}
  +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3069 …}
  +children: [
    1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2326
      +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2191 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2325 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2327 …}
      +body: """
        > if I copy my /home (someone said /etc too) over to my laptop, and back it up as well, I’m golden?\n
        \n
        /home yes., but ideally only files and dirs starting with a dot (so called “dotfiles” under your home dir. `tar cvfa homedots.tar.gz /home/username/.??*` should take care of it.\n
        \n
        Please note it will include some large stuff that’s probably not needed, like .cache, or some individual caches for other apps that don’t use .cache, like the browsers.\n
        \n
        Don’t copy /etc, it’s usually machine-specific.\n
        \n
        > would different hostnames and usernames make a problem?\n
        \n
        Hostname no (if you don’t bring etc). Username technically yes, you may want to rename the home dir. The user id and group id are important too but usually off it’s the first user on the same distro it will receive the same ids (typically 1000 nowadays). If not, you can change that manually and recursively `chown 1000:1000 -r /home/username`.
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 12
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1700462066 {#2289
        date: 2023-11-20 07:34:26.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@UnRelatedBurner@sh.itjust.works"
        "@bizdelnick@lemmy.ml"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2329 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2323 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2300 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2340 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2342 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2343 …}
      -id: 142174
      -bodyTs: "'/etc':8,84 '/home':5,23 '/home/username':45,161 '1000':146,158,159 'app':72 'back':15 'bring':105 'browser':80 'cach':65,69,77 'call':36 'care':48 'chang':152 'chown':157 'copi':3,83 'cvfa':43 'differ':92 'dir':30,41,117 'distro':138 'dot':34 'dotfil':37 'etc':106 'file':28 'first':133 'golden':22 'group':122 'home':40,116 'homedots.tar.gz':44 'hostnam':93,99 'id':120,123,144 'ideal':26 'import':125 'includ':55 'individu':68 'laptop':13 'larg':57 'like':64,78 'm':21 'machin':89 'machine-specif':88 'make':96 'manual':154 'may':111 'need':63 'note':52 'nowaday':147 'pleas':51 'probabl':61 'problem':98 'r':160 'receiv':141 'recurs':156 'renam':114 'said':7 'someon':6 'specif':90 'start':31 'stuff':58 'take':47 'tar':42 'technic':108 'typic':145 'use':76 'user':119,134 'usernam':95,107 'usual':87,128 'want':112 'well':19 'would':91 'yes':24,109"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://feddit.nl/comment/4725105"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700462066 {#2328
        date: 2023-11-20 07:34:26.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 142174
    }
    0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2049
      +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2191 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2048 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2327 …}
      +body: """
        You’re welcome.\n
        \n
        To clarify, /etc can have things that are relevant for the machine so you may want to back it up, but it’s not usually transferrable directly to another machine because it probably doesn’t play the exact same role. It has things like service configs, network configs etc.\n
        \n
        Even if you’re trying to migrate a machine to new hardware and the machine will play the same role it’s best to pick and choose files from /etc/ on a case by case basis. What I do is grab a tarball of /etc and set it aside, then if I need to redo something the same way it was on the old machine I can dig through the tarball and only use the relevant files.\n
        \n
        Like I said it’s extremely specific. For example if I want to reconfigure the SSH daemon that’s usually a couple of lines which I know by heart (turn root login and password logins off) which I can do by hand; if I want to reconfigure CUPS printing it’s best to use the CUPS admin interface to autodetect the printer, you don’t usually want to mess with its config files; for some things like /etc/fstab or NFS or RAID I *may* want to copy some stuff but edit the disk UUIDs; for some things like Samba I could in theory copy the config straight over. It varies.\n
        \n
        The list of installed packages may also be relevant when you migrate to a new machine. Different distros have different commands for obtaining a list of installed packages, and different ways of using that on the new machine to restore the same package selection. This is useful and typically can get you started much faster on the new machine.
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 3
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1700470013 {#2067
        date: 2023-11-20 09:46:53.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@UnRelatedBurner@sh.itjust.works"
        "@bizdelnick@lemmy.ml"
        "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2051 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2059 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2047 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2057 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2055 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2054 …}
      -id: 142346
      -bodyTs: "'/etc':6,82,97 '/etc/fstab':207 'admin':186 'also':246 'anoth':32 'asid':101 'autodetect':189 'back':21 'basi':88 'best':75,181 'case':85,87 'choos':79 'clarifi':5 'command':260 'config':49,51,201,235 'copi':216,233 'could':230 'coupl':151 'cup':177,185 'daemon':146 'differ':256,259,269 'dig':120 'direct':30 'disk':222 'distro':257 'doesn':37 'edit':220 'etc':52 'even':53 'exact':41 'exampl':138 'extrem':135 'faster':294 'file':80,129,202 'get':290 'grab':93 'hand':171 'hardwar':64 'heart':158 'instal':243,266 'interfac':187 'know':156 'like':47,130,206,227 'line':153 'list':241,264 'login':161,164 'machin':15,33,61,67,117,255,277,298 'may':18,213,245 'mess':198 'migrat':59,251 'much':293 'need':105 'network':50 'new':63,254,276,297 'nfs':209 'obtain':262 'old':116 'packag':244,267,282 'password':163 'pick':77 'play':39,69 'print':178 'printer':191 'probabl':36 'raid':211 're':2,56 'reconfigur':143,176 'redo':107 'relev':12,128,248 'restor':279 'role':43,72 'root':160 'said':132 'samba':228 'select':283 'servic':48 'set':99 'someth':108 'specif':136 'ssh':145 'start':292 'straight':236 'stuff':218 'tarbal':95,123 'theori':232 'thing':9,46,205,226 'transferr':29 'tri':57 'turn':159 'typic':288 'use':126,183,272,286 'usual':28,149,195 'uuid':223 'vari':239 'want':19,141,174,196,214 'way':111,270 'welcom':3"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://feddit.nl/comment/4726574"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700470013 {#2070
        date: 2023-11-20 09:46:53.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 142346
    }
  ]
  -id: 14526
  -titleTs: "'linux':6 'packag':1 'transport':4"
  -bodyTs: "'almost':31,79 'along':223 'alreadi':172 'also':113 'app':33,66,69,145 'arch':18 'back':85 'back-up':84 'burn':176 'clean':131 'config':65,70,149,227 'configur':206 'correct':185 'could':91 'customiz':36 'd':196,209 'deal':188 'differ':110 'driver':183 'far':203 'file':140 'final':193 'finish':205 'flash':180 'foot':221 'go':162 'hardwar':111 'high':35 'idealist':121 'instal':132,142 'iso':96 'kde':19 'know':212 'laptop':54,77,107 'later':191 'lave':39 'like':197,210 'linux':17 'll':187 'love':22 'm':21,38,202 'make':167 'manual':136 'os':29 'partit':116 'past':146 'possibl':155 'probabl':8 'problem':44,117 'proccess':214 'quick':25,83 'realiz':26,88,114 'reboot':151 'recent':14 'reinstal':48 'requir':129 'save':62 'say':199 'script':134 'sh':139 'shoot':217 'simpl':4,11 'solut':12,127 'somehow':97 'someon':166 'somewher':222 'start':15 'thank':228 'themselves/i':186 'think':104 'tool':169 'transfer':72 'turn':92 'unavoid':47 'vast':109 'way':58,225 'well':42 'wish':5 'word':194 'work':102 'world':122 'wouldn':100 'yes':158"
  +cross: false
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +ranking: 1700514431
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/post/9493386"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700428031 {#3043
    date: 2023-11-19 22:07:11.0 +01:00
  }
  +__isInitialized__: true
   …2
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
12 DENIED moderate 
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2191
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2541 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
  +image: null
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2938 …}
  +slug: "Package-up-and-transport-a-linux"
  +title: "Package up and transport a linux?"
  +url: null
  +body: """
    I have a simple wish, with a probably not so simple solution.\n
    \n
    I recently started with linux (Arch kde), I’m loving it, I quickly realized that this OS and almost all apps, are highly customizable, I’m laving that as well. My problem is the unavoidable reinstalls and that I have a laptop.\n
    \n
    Is there any way that I can save all my configs, apps and my apps’ configs, and transfer them over to my laptop, while almost having a very quick back-up. I realize that I could turn it into an ISO somehow, but that wouldn’t work (I think) because my laptop has vastly different hardware. I also realize the partitioning problem. So in my idealistic world, there should be a solution that requires a clean install (from scripts or manual) and some .sh file, that installs all my apps, pastes all my configs and reboots.\n
    \n
    So is this possible? and if yes, how should I go about this? did someone make a tool for this already? Or(!) can I burn it to a flash and the drivers will correct themselves/I’ll deal with them later?\n
    \n
    For final words I’d like to say that I’m far from finished configurating, but I’d like to know the proccess, to not shoot myself in the foot somewhere along the way of configing, thanks!
    """
  +type: "article"
  +lang: "en"
  +isOc: false
  +hasEmbed: false
  +commentCount: 58
  +favouriteCount: 51
  +score: 0
  +isAdult: false
  +sticky: false
  +lastActive: DateTime @1700580681 {#3054
    date: 2023-11-21 16:31:21.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +adaAmount: 0
  +tags: null
  +mentions: null
  +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3005 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3061 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3063 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3065 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3067 …}
  +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3069 …}
  +children: [
    1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2326
      +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2191 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2325 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2327 …}
      +body: """
        > if I copy my /home (someone said /etc too) over to my laptop, and back it up as well, I’m golden?\n
        \n
        /home yes., but ideally only files and dirs starting with a dot (so called “dotfiles” under your home dir. `tar cvfa homedots.tar.gz /home/username/.??*` should take care of it.\n
        \n
        Please note it will include some large stuff that’s probably not needed, like .cache, or some individual caches for other apps that don’t use .cache, like the browsers.\n
        \n
        Don’t copy /etc, it’s usually machine-specific.\n
        \n
        > would different hostnames and usernames make a problem?\n
        \n
        Hostname no (if you don’t bring etc). Username technically yes, you may want to rename the home dir. The user id and group id are important too but usually off it’s the first user on the same distro it will receive the same ids (typically 1000 nowadays). If not, you can change that manually and recursively `chown 1000:1000 -r /home/username`.
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 12
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1700462066 {#2289
        date: 2023-11-20 07:34:26.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@UnRelatedBurner@sh.itjust.works"
        "@bizdelnick@lemmy.ml"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2329 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2323 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2300 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2340 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2342 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2343 …}
      -id: 142174
      -bodyTs: "'/etc':8,84 '/home':5,23 '/home/username':45,161 '1000':146,158,159 'app':72 'back':15 'bring':105 'browser':80 'cach':65,69,77 'call':36 'care':48 'chang':152 'chown':157 'copi':3,83 'cvfa':43 'differ':92 'dir':30,41,117 'distro':138 'dot':34 'dotfil':37 'etc':106 'file':28 'first':133 'golden':22 'group':122 'home':40,116 'homedots.tar.gz':44 'hostnam':93,99 'id':120,123,144 'ideal':26 'import':125 'includ':55 'individu':68 'laptop':13 'larg':57 'like':64,78 'm':21 'machin':89 'machine-specif':88 'make':96 'manual':154 'may':111 'need':63 'note':52 'nowaday':147 'pleas':51 'probabl':61 'problem':98 'r':160 'receiv':141 'recurs':156 'renam':114 'said':7 'someon':6 'specif':90 'start':31 'stuff':58 'take':47 'tar':42 'technic':108 'typic':145 'use':76 'user':119,134 'usernam':95,107 'usual':87,128 'want':112 'well':19 'would':91 'yes':24,109"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://feddit.nl/comment/4725105"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700462066 {#2328
        date: 2023-11-20 07:34:26.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 142174
    }
    0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2049
      +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2191 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2048 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2327 …}
      +body: """
        You’re welcome.\n
        \n
        To clarify, /etc can have things that are relevant for the machine so you may want to back it up, but it’s not usually transferrable directly to another machine because it probably doesn’t play the exact same role. It has things like service configs, network configs etc.\n
        \n
        Even if you’re trying to migrate a machine to new hardware and the machine will play the same role it’s best to pick and choose files from /etc/ on a case by case basis. What I do is grab a tarball of /etc and set it aside, then if I need to redo something the same way it was on the old machine I can dig through the tarball and only use the relevant files.\n
        \n
        Like I said it’s extremely specific. For example if I want to reconfigure the SSH daemon that’s usually a couple of lines which I know by heart (turn root login and password logins off) which I can do by hand; if I want to reconfigure CUPS printing it’s best to use the CUPS admin interface to autodetect the printer, you don’t usually want to mess with its config files; for some things like /etc/fstab or NFS or RAID I *may* want to copy some stuff but edit the disk UUIDs; for some things like Samba I could in theory copy the config straight over. It varies.\n
        \n
        The list of installed packages may also be relevant when you migrate to a new machine. Different distros have different commands for obtaining a list of installed packages, and different ways of using that on the new machine to restore the same package selection. This is useful and typically can get you started much faster on the new machine.
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 3
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1700470013 {#2067
        date: 2023-11-20 09:46:53.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@UnRelatedBurner@sh.itjust.works"
        "@bizdelnick@lemmy.ml"
        "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2051 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2059 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2047 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2057 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2055 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2054 …}
      -id: 142346
      -bodyTs: "'/etc':6,82,97 '/etc/fstab':207 'admin':186 'also':246 'anoth':32 'asid':101 'autodetect':189 'back':21 'basi':88 'best':75,181 'case':85,87 'choos':79 'clarifi':5 'command':260 'config':49,51,201,235 'copi':216,233 'could':230 'coupl':151 'cup':177,185 'daemon':146 'differ':256,259,269 'dig':120 'direct':30 'disk':222 'distro':257 'doesn':37 'edit':220 'etc':52 'even':53 'exact':41 'exampl':138 'extrem':135 'faster':294 'file':80,129,202 'get':290 'grab':93 'hand':171 'hardwar':64 'heart':158 'instal':243,266 'interfac':187 'know':156 'like':47,130,206,227 'line':153 'list':241,264 'login':161,164 'machin':15,33,61,67,117,255,277,298 'may':18,213,245 'mess':198 'migrat':59,251 'much':293 'need':105 'network':50 'new':63,254,276,297 'nfs':209 'obtain':262 'old':116 'packag':244,267,282 'password':163 'pick':77 'play':39,69 'print':178 'printer':191 'probabl':36 'raid':211 're':2,56 'reconfigur':143,176 'redo':107 'relev':12,128,248 'restor':279 'role':43,72 'root':160 'said':132 'samba':228 'select':283 'servic':48 'set':99 'someth':108 'specif':136 'ssh':145 'start':292 'straight':236 'stuff':218 'tarbal':95,123 'theori':232 'thing':9,46,205,226 'transferr':29 'tri':57 'turn':159 'typic':288 'use':126,183,272,286 'usual':28,149,195 'uuid':223 'vari':239 'want':19,141,174,196,214 'way':111,270 'welcom':3"
      +ranking: 0
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      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700470013 {#2070
        date: 2023-11-20 09:46:53.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 142346
    }
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  -titleTs: "'linux':6 'packag':1 'transport':4"
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  +cross: false
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
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  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/post/9493386"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700428031 {#3043
    date: 2023-11-19 22:07:11.0 +01:00
  }
  +__isInitialized__: true
   …2
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
13 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
14 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2326
  +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2191
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2541 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
    +image: null
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2938 …}
    +slug: "Package-up-and-transport-a-linux"
    +title: "Package up and transport a linux?"
    +url: null
    +body: """
      I have a simple wish, with a probably not so simple solution.\n
      \n
      I recently started with linux (Arch kde), I’m loving it, I quickly realized that this OS and almost all apps, are highly customizable, I’m laving that as well. My problem is the unavoidable reinstalls and that I have a laptop.\n
      \n
      Is there any way that I can save all my configs, apps and my apps’ configs, and transfer them over to my laptop, while almost having a very quick back-up. I realize that I could turn it into an ISO somehow, but that wouldn’t work (I think) because my laptop has vastly different hardware. I also realize the partitioning problem. So in my idealistic world, there should be a solution that requires a clean install (from scripts or manual) and some .sh file, that installs all my apps, pastes all my configs and reboots.\n
      \n
      So is this possible? and if yes, how should I go about this? did someone make a tool for this already? Or(!) can I burn it to a flash and the drivers will correct themselves/I’ll deal with them later?\n
      \n
      For final words I’d like to say that I’m far from finished configurating, but I’d like to know the proccess, to not shoot myself in the foot somewhere along the way of configing, thanks!
      """
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      date: 2023-11-21 16:31:21.0 +01:00
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2049
        +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2191 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2048 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2327 …}
        +body: """
          You’re welcome.\n
          \n
          To clarify, /etc can have things that are relevant for the machine so you may want to back it up, but it’s not usually transferrable directly to another machine because it probably doesn’t play the exact same role. It has things like service configs, network configs etc.\n
          \n
          Even if you’re trying to migrate a machine to new hardware and the machine will play the same role it’s best to pick and choose files from /etc/ on a case by case basis. What I do is grab a tarball of /etc and set it aside, then if I need to redo something the same way it was on the old machine I can dig through the tarball and only use the relevant files.\n
          \n
          Like I said it’s extremely specific. For example if I want to reconfigure the SSH daemon that’s usually a couple of lines which I know by heart (turn root login and password logins off) which I can do by hand; if I want to reconfigure CUPS printing it’s best to use the CUPS admin interface to autodetect the printer, you don’t usually want to mess with its config files; for some things like /etc/fstab or NFS or RAID I *may* want to copy some stuff but edit the disk UUIDs; for some things like Samba I could in theory copy the config straight over. It varies.\n
          \n
          The list of installed packages may also be relevant when you migrate to a new machine. Different distros have different commands for obtaining a list of installed packages, and different ways of using that on the new machine to restore the same package selection. This is useful and typically can get you started much faster on the new machine.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-20 09:46:53.0 +01:00
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          "@UnRelatedBurner@sh.itjust.works"
          "@bizdelnick@lemmy.ml"
          "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
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        -bodyTs: "'/etc':6,82,97 '/etc/fstab':207 'admin':186 'also':246 'anoth':32 'asid':101 'autodetect':189 'back':21 'basi':88 'best':75,181 'case':85,87 'choos':79 'clarifi':5 'command':260 'config':49,51,201,235 'copi':216,233 'could':230 'coupl':151 'cup':177,185 'daemon':146 'differ':256,259,269 'dig':120 'direct':30 'disk':222 'distro':257 'doesn':37 'edit':220 'etc':52 'even':53 'exact':41 'exampl':138 'extrem':135 'faster':294 'file':80,129,202 'get':290 'grab':93 'hand':171 'hardwar':64 'heart':158 'instal':243,266 'interfac':187 'know':156 'like':47,130,206,227 'line':153 'list':241,264 'login':161,164 'machin':15,33,61,67,117,255,277,298 'may':18,213,245 'mess':198 'migrat':59,251 'much':293 'need':105 'network':50 'new':63,254,276,297 'nfs':209 'obtain':262 'old':116 'packag':244,267,282 'password':163 'pick':77 'play':39,69 'print':178 'printer':191 'probabl':36 'raid':211 're':2,56 'reconfigur':143,176 'redo':107 'relev':12,128,248 'restor':279 'role':43,72 'root':160 'said':132 'samba':228 'select':283 'servic':48 'set':99 'someth':108 'specif':136 'ssh':145 'start':292 'straight':236 'stuff':218 'tarbal':95,123 'theori':232 'thing':9,46,205,226 'transferr':29 'tri':57 'turn':159 'typic':288 'use':126,183,272,286 'usual':28,149,195 'uuid':223 'vari':239 'want':19,141,174,196,214 'way':111,270 'welcom':3"
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        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.nl/comment/4726574"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700470013 {#2070
          date: 2023-11-20 09:46:53.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 142346
      }
    ]
    -id: 14526
    -titleTs: "'linux':6 'packag':1 'transport':4"
    -bodyTs: "'almost':31,79 'along':223 'alreadi':172 'also':113 'app':33,66,69,145 'arch':18 'back':85 'back-up':84 'burn':176 'clean':131 'config':65,70,149,227 'configur':206 'correct':185 'could':91 'customiz':36 'd':196,209 'deal':188 'differ':110 'driver':183 'far':203 'file':140 'final':193 'finish':205 'flash':180 'foot':221 'go':162 'hardwar':111 'high':35 'idealist':121 'instal':132,142 'iso':96 'kde':19 'know':212 'laptop':54,77,107 'later':191 'lave':39 'like':197,210 'linux':17 'll':187 'love':22 'm':21,38,202 'make':167 'manual':136 'os':29 'partit':116 'past':146 'possibl':155 'probabl':8 'problem':44,117 'proccess':214 'quick':25,83 'realiz':26,88,114 'reboot':151 'recent':14 'reinstal':48 'requir':129 'save':62 'say':199 'script':134 'sh':139 'shoot':217 'simpl':4,11 'solut':12,127 'somehow':97 'someon':166 'somewher':222 'start':15 'thank':228 'themselves/i':186 'think':104 'tool':169 'transfer':72 'turn':92 'unavoid':47 'vast':109 'way':58,225 'well':42 'wish':5 'word':194 'work':102 'world':122 'wouldn':100 'yes':158"
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1700514431
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/post/9493386"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700428031 {#3043
      date: 2023-11-19 22:07:11.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2325 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2327 …}
  +body: """
    > if I copy my /home (someone said /etc too) over to my laptop, and back it up as well, I’m golden?\n
    \n
    /home yes., but ideally only files and dirs starting with a dot (so called “dotfiles” under your home dir. `tar cvfa homedots.tar.gz /home/username/.??*` should take care of it.\n
    \n
    Please note it will include some large stuff that’s probably not needed, like .cache, or some individual caches for other apps that don’t use .cache, like the browsers.\n
    \n
    Don’t copy /etc, it’s usually machine-specific.\n
    \n
    > would different hostnames and usernames make a problem?\n
    \n
    Hostname no (if you don’t bring etc). Username technically yes, you may want to rename the home dir. The user id and group id are important too but usually off it’s the first user on the same distro it will receive the same ids (typically 1000 nowadays). If not, you can change that manually and recursively `chown 1000:1000 -r /home/username`.
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
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  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1700462066 {#2289
    date: 2023-11-20 07:34:26.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@UnRelatedBurner@sh.itjust.works"
    "@bizdelnick@lemmy.ml"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2329 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2323 …}
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  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2340 …}
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  -id: 142174
  -bodyTs: "'/etc':8,84 '/home':5,23 '/home/username':45,161 '1000':146,158,159 'app':72 'back':15 'bring':105 'browser':80 'cach':65,69,77 'call':36 'care':48 'chang':152 'chown':157 'copi':3,83 'cvfa':43 'differ':92 'dir':30,41,117 'distro':138 'dot':34 'dotfil':37 'etc':106 'file':28 'first':133 'golden':22 'group':122 'home':40,116 'homedots.tar.gz':44 'hostnam':93,99 'id':120,123,144 'ideal':26 'import':125 'includ':55 'individu':68 'laptop':13 'larg':57 'like':64,78 'm':21 'machin':89 'machine-specif':88 'make':96 'manual':154 'may':111 'need':63 'note':52 'nowaday':147 'pleas':51 'probabl':61 'problem':98 'r':160 'receiv':141 'recurs':156 'renam':114 'said':7 'someon':6 'specif':90 'start':31 'stuff':58 'take':47 'tar':42 'technic':108 'typic':145 'use':76 'user':119,134 'usernam':95,107 'usual':87,128 'want':112 'well':19 'would':91 'yes':24,109"
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  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
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  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700462066 {#2328
    date: 2023-11-20 07:34:26.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 142174
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
15 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2326
  +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2191
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2541 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
    +image: null
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2938 …}
    +slug: "Package-up-and-transport-a-linux"
    +title: "Package up and transport a linux?"
    +url: null
    +body: """
      I have a simple wish, with a probably not so simple solution.\n
      \n
      I recently started with linux (Arch kde), I’m loving it, I quickly realized that this OS and almost all apps, are highly customizable, I’m laving that as well. My problem is the unavoidable reinstalls and that I have a laptop.\n
      \n
      Is there any way that I can save all my configs, apps and my apps’ configs, and transfer them over to my laptop, while almost having a very quick back-up. I realize that I could turn it into an ISO somehow, but that wouldn’t work (I think) because my laptop has vastly different hardware. I also realize the partitioning problem. So in my idealistic world, there should be a solution that requires a clean install (from scripts or manual) and some .sh file, that installs all my apps, pastes all my configs and reboots.\n
      \n
      So is this possible? and if yes, how should I go about this? did someone make a tool for this already? Or(!) can I burn it to a flash and the drivers will correct themselves/I’ll deal with them later?\n
      \n
      For final words I’d like to say that I’m far from finished configurating, but I’d like to know the proccess, to not shoot myself in the foot somewhere along the way of configing, thanks!
      """
    +type: "article"
    +lang: "en"
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    +hasEmbed: false
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    +lastActive: DateTime @1700580681 {#3054
      date: 2023-11-21 16:31:21.0 +01:00
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    +ip: null
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    +children: [
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2049
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        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2191 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2048 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2327 …}
        +body: """
          You’re welcome.\n
          \n
          To clarify, /etc can have things that are relevant for the machine so you may want to back it up, but it’s not usually transferrable directly to another machine because it probably doesn’t play the exact same role. It has things like service configs, network configs etc.\n
          \n
          Even if you’re trying to migrate a machine to new hardware and the machine will play the same role it’s best to pick and choose files from /etc/ on a case by case basis. What I do is grab a tarball of /etc and set it aside, then if I need to redo something the same way it was on the old machine I can dig through the tarball and only use the relevant files.\n
          \n
          Like I said it’s extremely specific. For example if I want to reconfigure the SSH daemon that’s usually a couple of lines which I know by heart (turn root login and password logins off) which I can do by hand; if I want to reconfigure CUPS printing it’s best to use the CUPS admin interface to autodetect the printer, you don’t usually want to mess with its config files; for some things like /etc/fstab or NFS or RAID I *may* want to copy some stuff but edit the disk UUIDs; for some things like Samba I could in theory copy the config straight over. It varies.\n
          \n
          The list of installed packages may also be relevant when you migrate to a new machine. Different distros have different commands for obtaining a list of installed packages, and different ways of using that on the new machine to restore the same package selection. This is useful and typically can get you started much faster on the new machine.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-11-20 09:46:53.0 +01:00
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        +ip: null
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        +mentions: [
          "@UnRelatedBurner@sh.itjust.works"
          "@bizdelnick@lemmy.ml"
          "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2051 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2059 …}
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        -bodyTs: "'/etc':6,82,97 '/etc/fstab':207 'admin':186 'also':246 'anoth':32 'asid':101 'autodetect':189 'back':21 'basi':88 'best':75,181 'case':85,87 'choos':79 'clarifi':5 'command':260 'config':49,51,201,235 'copi':216,233 'could':230 'coupl':151 'cup':177,185 'daemon':146 'differ':256,259,269 'dig':120 'direct':30 'disk':222 'distro':257 'doesn':37 'edit':220 'etc':52 'even':53 'exact':41 'exampl':138 'extrem':135 'faster':294 'file':80,129,202 'get':290 'grab':93 'hand':171 'hardwar':64 'heart':158 'instal':243,266 'interfac':187 'know':156 'like':47,130,206,227 'line':153 'list':241,264 'login':161,164 'machin':15,33,61,67,117,255,277,298 'may':18,213,245 'mess':198 'migrat':59,251 'much':293 'need':105 'network':50 'new':63,254,276,297 'nfs':209 'obtain':262 'old':116 'packag':244,267,282 'password':163 'pick':77 'play':39,69 'print':178 'printer':191 'probabl':36 'raid':211 're':2,56 'reconfigur':143,176 'redo':107 'relev':12,128,248 'restor':279 'role':43,72 'root':160 'said':132 'samba':228 'select':283 'servic':48 'set':99 'someth':108 'specif':136 'ssh':145 'start':292 'straight':236 'stuff':218 'tarbal':95,123 'theori':232 'thing':9,46,205,226 'transferr':29 'tri':57 'turn':159 'typic':288 'use':126,183,272,286 'usual':28,149,195 'uuid':223 'vari':239 'want':19,141,174,196,214 'way':111,270 'welcom':3"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
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        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.nl/comment/4726574"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700470013 {#2070
          date: 2023-11-20 09:46:53.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 142346
      }
    ]
    -id: 14526
    -titleTs: "'linux':6 'packag':1 'transport':4"
    -bodyTs: "'almost':31,79 'along':223 'alreadi':172 'also':113 'app':33,66,69,145 'arch':18 'back':85 'back-up':84 'burn':176 'clean':131 'config':65,70,149,227 'configur':206 'correct':185 'could':91 'customiz':36 'd':196,209 'deal':188 'differ':110 'driver':183 'far':203 'file':140 'final':193 'finish':205 'flash':180 'foot':221 'go':162 'hardwar':111 'high':35 'idealist':121 'instal':132,142 'iso':96 'kde':19 'know':212 'laptop':54,77,107 'later':191 'lave':39 'like':197,210 'linux':17 'll':187 'love':22 'm':21,38,202 'make':167 'manual':136 'os':29 'partit':116 'past':146 'possibl':155 'probabl':8 'problem':44,117 'proccess':214 'quick':25,83 'realiz':26,88,114 'reboot':151 'recent':14 'reinstal':48 'requir':129 'save':62 'say':199 'script':134 'sh':139 'shoot':217 'simpl':4,11 'solut':12,127 'somehow':97 'someon':166 'somewher':222 'start':15 'thank':228 'themselves/i':186 'think':104 'tool':169 'transfer':72 'turn':92 'unavoid':47 'vast':109 'way':58,225 'well':42 'wish':5 'word':194 'work':102 'world':122 'wouldn':100 'yes':158"
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1700514431
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/post/9493386"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700428031 {#3043
      date: 2023-11-19 22:07:11.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2325 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2327 …}
  +body: """
    > if I copy my /home (someone said /etc too) over to my laptop, and back it up as well, I’m golden?\n
    \n
    /home yes., but ideally only files and dirs starting with a dot (so called “dotfiles” under your home dir. `tar cvfa homedots.tar.gz /home/username/.??*` should take care of it.\n
    \n
    Please note it will include some large stuff that’s probably not needed, like .cache, or some individual caches for other apps that don’t use .cache, like the browsers.\n
    \n
    Don’t copy /etc, it’s usually machine-specific.\n
    \n
    > would different hostnames and usernames make a problem?\n
    \n
    Hostname no (if you don’t bring etc). Username technically yes, you may want to rename the home dir. The user id and group id are important too but usually off it’s the first user on the same distro it will receive the same ids (typically 1000 nowadays). If not, you can change that manually and recursively `chown 1000:1000 -r /home/username`.
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 12
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1700462066 {#2289
    date: 2023-11-20 07:34:26.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@UnRelatedBurner@sh.itjust.works"
    "@bizdelnick@lemmy.ml"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2329 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2323 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2300 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2340 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2342 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2343 …}
  -id: 142174
  -bodyTs: "'/etc':8,84 '/home':5,23 '/home/username':45,161 '1000':146,158,159 'app':72 'back':15 'bring':105 'browser':80 'cach':65,69,77 'call':36 'care':48 'chang':152 'chown':157 'copi':3,83 'cvfa':43 'differ':92 'dir':30,41,117 'distro':138 'dot':34 'dotfil':37 'etc':106 'file':28 'first':133 'golden':22 'group':122 'home':40,116 'homedots.tar.gz':44 'hostnam':93,99 'id':120,123,144 'ideal':26 'import':125 'includ':55 'individu':68 'laptop':13 'larg':57 'like':64,78 'm':21 'machin':89 'machine-specif':88 'make':96 'manual':154 'may':111 'need':63 'note':52 'nowaday':147 'pleas':51 'probabl':61 'problem':98 'r':160 'receiv':141 'recurs':156 'renam':114 'said':7 'someon':6 'specif':90 'start':31 'stuff':58 'take':47 'tar':42 'technic':108 'typic':145 'use':76 'user':119,134 'usernam':95,107 'usual':87,128 'want':112 'well':19 'would':91 'yes':24,109"
  +ranking: 0
  +commentCount: 0
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://feddit.nl/comment/4725105"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700462066 {#2328
    date: 2023-11-20 07:34:26.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 142174
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
16 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2326
  +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2191
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2541 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
    +image: null
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2938 …}
    +slug: "Package-up-and-transport-a-linux"
    +title: "Package up and transport a linux?"
    +url: null
    +body: """
      I have a simple wish, with a probably not so simple solution.\n
      \n
      I recently started with linux (Arch kde), I’m loving it, I quickly realized that this OS and almost all apps, are highly customizable, I’m laving that as well. My problem is the unavoidable reinstalls and that I have a laptop.\n
      \n
      Is there any way that I can save all my configs, apps and my apps’ configs, and transfer them over to my laptop, while almost having a very quick back-up. I realize that I could turn it into an ISO somehow, but that wouldn’t work (I think) because my laptop has vastly different hardware. I also realize the partitioning problem. So in my idealistic world, there should be a solution that requires a clean install (from scripts or manual) and some .sh file, that installs all my apps, pastes all my configs and reboots.\n
      \n
      So is this possible? and if yes, how should I go about this? did someone make a tool for this already? Or(!) can I burn it to a flash and the drivers will correct themselves/I’ll deal with them later?\n
      \n
      For final words I’d like to say that I’m far from finished configurating, but I’d like to know the proccess, to not shoot myself in the foot somewhere along the way of configing, thanks!
      """
    +type: "article"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: false
    +commentCount: 58
    +favouriteCount: 51
    +score: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +sticky: false
    +lastActive: DateTime @1700580681 {#3054
      date: 2023-11-21 16:31:21.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3005 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3061 …}
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    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3065 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3067 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3069 …}
    +children: [
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2326}
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2049
        +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2191 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2048 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2327 …}
        +body: """
          You’re welcome.\n
          \n
          To clarify, /etc can have things that are relevant for the machine so you may want to back it up, but it’s not usually transferrable directly to another machine because it probably doesn’t play the exact same role. It has things like service configs, network configs etc.\n
          \n
          Even if you’re trying to migrate a machine to new hardware and the machine will play the same role it’s best to pick and choose files from /etc/ on a case by case basis. What I do is grab a tarball of /etc and set it aside, then if I need to redo something the same way it was on the old machine I can dig through the tarball and only use the relevant files.\n
          \n
          Like I said it’s extremely specific. For example if I want to reconfigure the SSH daemon that’s usually a couple of lines which I know by heart (turn root login and password logins off) which I can do by hand; if I want to reconfigure CUPS printing it’s best to use the CUPS admin interface to autodetect the printer, you don’t usually want to mess with its config files; for some things like /etc/fstab or NFS or RAID I *may* want to copy some stuff but edit the disk UUIDs; for some things like Samba I could in theory copy the config straight over. It varies.\n
          \n
          The list of installed packages may also be relevant when you migrate to a new machine. Different distros have different commands for obtaining a list of installed packages, and different ways of using that on the new machine to restore the same package selection. This is useful and typically can get you started much faster on the new machine.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1700470013 {#2067
          date: 2023-11-20 09:46:53.0 +01:00
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        +ip: null
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        +mentions: [
          "@UnRelatedBurner@sh.itjust.works"
          "@bizdelnick@lemmy.ml"
          "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2051 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2059 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2047 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2057 …}
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        -id: 142346
        -bodyTs: "'/etc':6,82,97 '/etc/fstab':207 'admin':186 'also':246 'anoth':32 'asid':101 'autodetect':189 'back':21 'basi':88 'best':75,181 'case':85,87 'choos':79 'clarifi':5 'command':260 'config':49,51,201,235 'copi':216,233 'could':230 'coupl':151 'cup':177,185 'daemon':146 'differ':256,259,269 'dig':120 'direct':30 'disk':222 'distro':257 'doesn':37 'edit':220 'etc':52 'even':53 'exact':41 'exampl':138 'extrem':135 'faster':294 'file':80,129,202 'get':290 'grab':93 'hand':171 'hardwar':64 'heart':158 'instal':243,266 'interfac':187 'know':156 'like':47,130,206,227 'line':153 'list':241,264 'login':161,164 'machin':15,33,61,67,117,255,277,298 'may':18,213,245 'mess':198 'migrat':59,251 'much':293 'need':105 'network':50 'new':63,254,276,297 'nfs':209 'obtain':262 'old':116 'packag':244,267,282 'password':163 'pick':77 'play':39,69 'print':178 'printer':191 'probabl':36 'raid':211 're':2,56 'reconfigur':143,176 'redo':107 'relev':12,128,248 'restor':279 'role':43,72 'root':160 'said':132 'samba':228 'select':283 'servic':48 'set':99 'someth':108 'specif':136 'ssh':145 'start':292 'straight':236 'stuff':218 'tarbal':95,123 'theori':232 'thing':9,46,205,226 'transferr':29 'tri':57 'turn':159 'typic':288 'use':126,183,272,286 'usual':28,149,195 'uuid':223 'vari':239 'want':19,141,174,196,214 'way':111,270 'welcom':3"
        +ranking: 0
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        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.nl/comment/4726574"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700470013 {#2070
          date: 2023-11-20 09:46:53.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 142346
      }
    ]
    -id: 14526
    -titleTs: "'linux':6 'packag':1 'transport':4"
    -bodyTs: "'almost':31,79 'along':223 'alreadi':172 'also':113 'app':33,66,69,145 'arch':18 'back':85 'back-up':84 'burn':176 'clean':131 'config':65,70,149,227 'configur':206 'correct':185 'could':91 'customiz':36 'd':196,209 'deal':188 'differ':110 'driver':183 'far':203 'file':140 'final':193 'finish':205 'flash':180 'foot':221 'go':162 'hardwar':111 'high':35 'idealist':121 'instal':132,142 'iso':96 'kde':19 'know':212 'laptop':54,77,107 'later':191 'lave':39 'like':197,210 'linux':17 'll':187 'love':22 'm':21,38,202 'make':167 'manual':136 'os':29 'partit':116 'past':146 'possibl':155 'probabl':8 'problem':44,117 'proccess':214 'quick':25,83 'realiz':26,88,114 'reboot':151 'recent':14 'reinstal':48 'requir':129 'save':62 'say':199 'script':134 'sh':139 'shoot':217 'simpl':4,11 'solut':12,127 'somehow':97 'someon':166 'somewher':222 'start':15 'thank':228 'themselves/i':186 'think':104 'tool':169 'transfer':72 'turn':92 'unavoid':47 'vast':109 'way':58,225 'well':42 'wish':5 'word':194 'work':102 'world':122 'wouldn':100 'yes':158"
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1700514431
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/post/9493386"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700428031 {#3043
      date: 2023-11-19 22:07:11.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2325 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2327 …}
  +body: """
    > if I copy my /home (someone said /etc too) over to my laptop, and back it up as well, I’m golden?\n
    \n
    /home yes., but ideally only files and dirs starting with a dot (so called “dotfiles” under your home dir. `tar cvfa homedots.tar.gz /home/username/.??*` should take care of it.\n
    \n
    Please note it will include some large stuff that’s probably not needed, like .cache, or some individual caches for other apps that don’t use .cache, like the browsers.\n
    \n
    Don’t copy /etc, it’s usually machine-specific.\n
    \n
    > would different hostnames and usernames make a problem?\n
    \n
    Hostname no (if you don’t bring etc). Username technically yes, you may want to rename the home dir. The user id and group id are important too but usually off it’s the first user on the same distro it will receive the same ids (typically 1000 nowadays). If not, you can change that manually and recursively `chown 1000:1000 -r /home/username`.
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 12
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1700462066 {#2289
    date: 2023-11-20 07:34:26.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@UnRelatedBurner@sh.itjust.works"
    "@bizdelnick@lemmy.ml"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2329 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2323 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2300 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2340 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2342 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2343 …}
  -id: 142174
  -bodyTs: "'/etc':8,84 '/home':5,23 '/home/username':45,161 '1000':146,158,159 'app':72 'back':15 'bring':105 'browser':80 'cach':65,69,77 'call':36 'care':48 'chang':152 'chown':157 'copi':3,83 'cvfa':43 'differ':92 'dir':30,41,117 'distro':138 'dot':34 'dotfil':37 'etc':106 'file':28 'first':133 'golden':22 'group':122 'home':40,116 'homedots.tar.gz':44 'hostnam':93,99 'id':120,123,144 'ideal':26 'import':125 'includ':55 'individu':68 'laptop':13 'larg':57 'like':64,78 'm':21 'machin':89 'machine-specif':88 'make':96 'manual':154 'may':111 'need':63 'note':52 'nowaday':147 'pleas':51 'probabl':61 'problem':98 'r':160 'receiv':141 'recurs':156 'renam':114 'said':7 'someon':6 'specif':90 'start':31 'stuff':58 'take':47 'tar':42 'technic':108 'typic':145 'use':76 'user':119,134 'usernam':95,107 'usual':87,128 'want':112 'well':19 'would':91 'yes':24,109"
  +ranking: 0
  +commentCount: 0
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://feddit.nl/comment/4725105"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700462066 {#2328
    date: 2023-11-20 07:34:26.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 142174
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
17 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
18 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2049
  +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2191
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2541 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
    +image: null
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2938 …}
    +slug: "Package-up-and-transport-a-linux"
    +title: "Package up and transport a linux?"
    +url: null
    +body: """
      I have a simple wish, with a probably not so simple solution.\n
      \n
      I recently started with linux (Arch kde), I’m loving it, I quickly realized that this OS and almost all apps, are highly customizable, I’m laving that as well. My problem is the unavoidable reinstalls and that I have a laptop.\n
      \n
      Is there any way that I can save all my configs, apps and my apps’ configs, and transfer them over to my laptop, while almost having a very quick back-up. I realize that I could turn it into an ISO somehow, but that wouldn’t work (I think) because my laptop has vastly different hardware. I also realize the partitioning problem. So in my idealistic world, there should be a solution that requires a clean install (from scripts or manual) and some .sh file, that installs all my apps, pastes all my configs and reboots.\n
      \n
      So is this possible? and if yes, how should I go about this? did someone make a tool for this already? Or(!) can I burn it to a flash and the drivers will correct themselves/I’ll deal with them later?\n
      \n
      For final words I’d like to say that I’m far from finished configurating, but I’d like to know the proccess, to not shoot myself in the foot somewhere along the way of configing, thanks!
      """
    +type: "article"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: false
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    +lastActive: DateTime @1700580681 {#3054
      date: 2023-11-21 16:31:21.0 +01:00
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    +ip: null
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    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3005 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3061 …}
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    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3065 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3067 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3069 …}
    +children: [
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2326
        +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2191 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2325 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2327 …}
        +body: """
          > if I copy my /home (someone said /etc too) over to my laptop, and back it up as well, I’m golden?\n
          \n
          /home yes., but ideally only files and dirs starting with a dot (so called “dotfiles” under your home dir. `tar cvfa homedots.tar.gz /home/username/.??*` should take care of it.\n
          \n
          Please note it will include some large stuff that’s probably not needed, like .cache, or some individual caches for other apps that don’t use .cache, like the browsers.\n
          \n
          Don’t copy /etc, it’s usually machine-specific.\n
          \n
          > would different hostnames and usernames make a problem?\n
          \n
          Hostname no (if you don’t bring etc). Username technically yes, you may want to rename the home dir. The user id and group id are important too but usually off it’s the first user on the same distro it will receive the same ids (typically 1000 nowadays). If not, you can change that manually and recursively `chown 1000:1000 -r /home/username`.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 12
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1700462066 {#2289
          date: 2023-11-20 07:34:26.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@UnRelatedBurner@sh.itjust.works"
          "@bizdelnick@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2329 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2323 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2300 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2340 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2342 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2343 …}
        -id: 142174
        -bodyTs: "'/etc':8,84 '/home':5,23 '/home/username':45,161 '1000':146,158,159 'app':72 'back':15 'bring':105 'browser':80 'cach':65,69,77 'call':36 'care':48 'chang':152 'chown':157 'copi':3,83 'cvfa':43 'differ':92 'dir':30,41,117 'distro':138 'dot':34 'dotfil':37 'etc':106 'file':28 'first':133 'golden':22 'group':122 'home':40,116 'homedots.tar.gz':44 'hostnam':93,99 'id':120,123,144 'ideal':26 'import':125 'includ':55 'individu':68 'laptop':13 'larg':57 'like':64,78 'm':21 'machin':89 'machine-specif':88 'make':96 'manual':154 'may':111 'need':63 'note':52 'nowaday':147 'pleas':51 'probabl':61 'problem':98 'r':160 'receiv':141 'recurs':156 'renam':114 'said':7 'someon':6 'specif':90 'start':31 'stuff':58 'take':47 'tar':42 'technic':108 'typic':145 'use':76 'user':119,134 'usernam':95,107 'usual':87,128 'want':112 'well':19 'would':91 'yes':24,109"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.nl/comment/4725105"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700462066 {#2328
          date: 2023-11-20 07:34:26.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 142174
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2049}
    ]
    -id: 14526
    -titleTs: "'linux':6 'packag':1 'transport':4"
    -bodyTs: "'almost':31,79 'along':223 'alreadi':172 'also':113 'app':33,66,69,145 'arch':18 'back':85 'back-up':84 'burn':176 'clean':131 'config':65,70,149,227 'configur':206 'correct':185 'could':91 'customiz':36 'd':196,209 'deal':188 'differ':110 'driver':183 'far':203 'file':140 'final':193 'finish':205 'flash':180 'foot':221 'go':162 'hardwar':111 'high':35 'idealist':121 'instal':132,142 'iso':96 'kde':19 'know':212 'laptop':54,77,107 'later':191 'lave':39 'like':197,210 'linux':17 'll':187 'love':22 'm':21,38,202 'make':167 'manual':136 'os':29 'partit':116 'past':146 'possibl':155 'probabl':8 'problem':44,117 'proccess':214 'quick':25,83 'realiz':26,88,114 'reboot':151 'recent':14 'reinstal':48 'requir':129 'save':62 'say':199 'script':134 'sh':139 'shoot':217 'simpl':4,11 'solut':12,127 'somehow':97 'someon':166 'somewher':222 'start':15 'thank':228 'themselves/i':186 'think':104 'tool':169 'transfer':72 'turn':92 'unavoid':47 'vast':109 'way':58,225 'well':42 'wish':5 'word':194 'work':102 'world':122 'wouldn':100 'yes':158"
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1700514431
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/post/9493386"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700428031 {#3043
      date: 2023-11-19 22:07:11.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2048 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2327 …}
  +body: """
    You’re welcome.\n
    \n
    To clarify, /etc can have things that are relevant for the machine so you may want to back it up, but it’s not usually transferrable directly to another machine because it probably doesn’t play the exact same role. It has things like service configs, network configs etc.\n
    \n
    Even if you’re trying to migrate a machine to new hardware and the machine will play the same role it’s best to pick and choose files from /etc/ on a case by case basis. What I do is grab a tarball of /etc and set it aside, then if I need to redo something the same way it was on the old machine I can dig through the tarball and only use the relevant files.\n
    \n
    Like I said it’s extremely specific. For example if I want to reconfigure the SSH daemon that’s usually a couple of lines which I know by heart (turn root login and password logins off) which I can do by hand; if I want to reconfigure CUPS printing it’s best to use the CUPS admin interface to autodetect the printer, you don’t usually want to mess with its config files; for some things like /etc/fstab or NFS or RAID I *may* want to copy some stuff but edit the disk UUIDs; for some things like Samba I could in theory copy the config straight over. It varies.\n
    \n
    The list of installed packages may also be relevant when you migrate to a new machine. Different distros have different commands for obtaining a list of installed packages, and different ways of using that on the new machine to restore the same package selection. This is useful and typically can get you started much faster on the new machine.
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 3
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1700470013 {#2067
    date: 2023-11-20 09:46:53.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@UnRelatedBurner@sh.itjust.works"
    "@bizdelnick@lemmy.ml"
    "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2051 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2059 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2047 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2057 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2055 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2054 …}
  -id: 142346
  -bodyTs: "'/etc':6,82,97 '/etc/fstab':207 'admin':186 'also':246 'anoth':32 'asid':101 'autodetect':189 'back':21 'basi':88 'best':75,181 'case':85,87 'choos':79 'clarifi':5 'command':260 'config':49,51,201,235 'copi':216,233 'could':230 'coupl':151 'cup':177,185 'daemon':146 'differ':256,259,269 'dig':120 'direct':30 'disk':222 'distro':257 'doesn':37 'edit':220 'etc':52 'even':53 'exact':41 'exampl':138 'extrem':135 'faster':294 'file':80,129,202 'get':290 'grab':93 'hand':171 'hardwar':64 'heart':158 'instal':243,266 'interfac':187 'know':156 'like':47,130,206,227 'line':153 'list':241,264 'login':161,164 'machin':15,33,61,67,117,255,277,298 'may':18,213,245 'mess':198 'migrat':59,251 'much':293 'need':105 'network':50 'new':63,254,276,297 'nfs':209 'obtain':262 'old':116 'packag':244,267,282 'password':163 'pick':77 'play':39,69 'print':178 'printer':191 'probabl':36 'raid':211 're':2,56 'reconfigur':143,176 'redo':107 'relev':12,128,248 'restor':279 'role':43,72 'root':160 'said':132 'samba':228 'select':283 'servic':48 'set':99 'someth':108 'specif':136 'ssh':145 'start':292 'straight':236 'stuff':218 'tarbal':95,123 'theori':232 'thing':9,46,205,226 'transferr':29 'tri':57 'turn':159 'typic':288 'use':126,183,272,286 'usual':28,149,195 'uuid':223 'vari':239 'want':19,141,174,196,214 'way':111,270 'welcom':3"
  +ranking: 0
  +commentCount: 0
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://feddit.nl/comment/4726574"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700470013 {#2070
    date: 2023-11-20 09:46:53.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 142346
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
19 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2049
  +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2191
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2541 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
    +image: null
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2938 …}
    +slug: "Package-up-and-transport-a-linux"
    +title: "Package up and transport a linux?"
    +url: null
    +body: """
      I have a simple wish, with a probably not so simple solution.\n
      \n
      I recently started with linux (Arch kde), I’m loving it, I quickly realized that this OS and almost all apps, are highly customizable, I’m laving that as well. My problem is the unavoidable reinstalls and that I have a laptop.\n
      \n
      Is there any way that I can save all my configs, apps and my apps’ configs, and transfer them over to my laptop, while almost having a very quick back-up. I realize that I could turn it into an ISO somehow, but that wouldn’t work (I think) because my laptop has vastly different hardware. I also realize the partitioning problem. So in my idealistic world, there should be a solution that requires a clean install (from scripts or manual) and some .sh file, that installs all my apps, pastes all my configs and reboots.\n
      \n
      So is this possible? and if yes, how should I go about this? did someone make a tool for this already? Or(!) can I burn it to a flash and the drivers will correct themselves/I’ll deal with them later?\n
      \n
      For final words I’d like to say that I’m far from finished configurating, but I’d like to know the proccess, to not shoot myself in the foot somewhere along the way of configing, thanks!
      """
    +type: "article"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: false
    +commentCount: 58
    +favouriteCount: 51
    +score: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +sticky: false
    +lastActive: DateTime @1700580681 {#3054
      date: 2023-11-21 16:31:21.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3005 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3061 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3063 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3065 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3067 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3069 …}
    +children: [
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2326
        +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2191 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2325 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2327 …}
        +body: """
          > if I copy my /home (someone said /etc too) over to my laptop, and back it up as well, I’m golden?\n
          \n
          /home yes., but ideally only files and dirs starting with a dot (so called “dotfiles” under your home dir. `tar cvfa homedots.tar.gz /home/username/.??*` should take care of it.\n
          \n
          Please note it will include some large stuff that’s probably not needed, like .cache, or some individual caches for other apps that don’t use .cache, like the browsers.\n
          \n
          Don’t copy /etc, it’s usually machine-specific.\n
          \n
          > would different hostnames and usernames make a problem?\n
          \n
          Hostname no (if you don’t bring etc). Username technically yes, you may want to rename the home dir. The user id and group id are important too but usually off it’s the first user on the same distro it will receive the same ids (typically 1000 nowadays). If not, you can change that manually and recursively `chown 1000:1000 -r /home/username`.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 12
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1700462066 {#2289
          date: 2023-11-20 07:34:26.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@UnRelatedBurner@sh.itjust.works"
          "@bizdelnick@lemmy.ml"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2329 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2323 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2300 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2340 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2342 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2343 …}
        -id: 142174
        -bodyTs: "'/etc':8,84 '/home':5,23 '/home/username':45,161 '1000':146,158,159 'app':72 'back':15 'bring':105 'browser':80 'cach':65,69,77 'call':36 'care':48 'chang':152 'chown':157 'copi':3,83 'cvfa':43 'differ':92 'dir':30,41,117 'distro':138 'dot':34 'dotfil':37 'etc':106 'file':28 'first':133 'golden':22 'group':122 'home':40,116 'homedots.tar.gz':44 'hostnam':93,99 'id':120,123,144 'ideal':26 'import':125 'includ':55 'individu':68 'laptop':13 'larg':57 'like':64,78 'm':21 'machin':89 'machine-specif':88 'make':96 'manual':154 'may':111 'need':63 'note':52 'nowaday':147 'pleas':51 'probabl':61 'problem':98 'r':160 'receiv':141 'recurs':156 'renam':114 'said':7 'someon':6 'specif':90 'start':31 'stuff':58 'take':47 'tar':42 'technic':108 'typic':145 'use':76 'user':119,134 'usernam':95,107 'usual':87,128 'want':112 'well':19 'would':91 'yes':24,109"
        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.nl/comment/4725105"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700462066 {#2328
          date: 2023-11-20 07:34:26.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 142174
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2049}
    ]
    -id: 14526
    -titleTs: "'linux':6 'packag':1 'transport':4"
    -bodyTs: "'almost':31,79 'along':223 'alreadi':172 'also':113 'app':33,66,69,145 'arch':18 'back':85 'back-up':84 'burn':176 'clean':131 'config':65,70,149,227 'configur':206 'correct':185 'could':91 'customiz':36 'd':196,209 'deal':188 'differ':110 'driver':183 'far':203 'file':140 'final':193 'finish':205 'flash':180 'foot':221 'go':162 'hardwar':111 'high':35 'idealist':121 'instal':132,142 'iso':96 'kde':19 'know':212 'laptop':54,77,107 'later':191 'lave':39 'like':197,210 'linux':17 'll':187 'love':22 'm':21,38,202 'make':167 'manual':136 'os':29 'partit':116 'past':146 'possibl':155 'probabl':8 'problem':44,117 'proccess':214 'quick':25,83 'realiz':26,88,114 'reboot':151 'recent':14 'reinstal':48 'requir':129 'save':62 'say':199 'script':134 'sh':139 'shoot':217 'simpl':4,11 'solut':12,127 'somehow':97 'someon':166 'somewher':222 'start':15 'thank':228 'themselves/i':186 'think':104 'tool':169 'transfer':72 'turn':92 'unavoid':47 'vast':109 'way':58,225 'well':42 'wish':5 'word':194 'work':102 'world':122 'wouldn':100 'yes':158"
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1700514431
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/post/9493386"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700428031 {#3043
      date: 2023-11-19 22:07:11.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2048 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2327 …}
  +body: """
    You’re welcome.\n
    \n
    To clarify, /etc can have things that are relevant for the machine so you may want to back it up, but it’s not usually transferrable directly to another machine because it probably doesn’t play the exact same role. It has things like service configs, network configs etc.\n
    \n
    Even if you’re trying to migrate a machine to new hardware and the machine will play the same role it’s best to pick and choose files from /etc/ on a case by case basis. What I do is grab a tarball of /etc and set it aside, then if I need to redo something the same way it was on the old machine I can dig through the tarball and only use the relevant files.\n
    \n
    Like I said it’s extremely specific. For example if I want to reconfigure the SSH daemon that’s usually a couple of lines which I know by heart (turn root login and password logins off) which I can do by hand; if I want to reconfigure CUPS printing it’s best to use the CUPS admin interface to autodetect the printer, you don’t usually want to mess with its config files; for some things like /etc/fstab or NFS or RAID I *may* want to copy some stuff but edit the disk UUIDs; for some things like Samba I could in theory copy the config straight over. It varies.\n
    \n
    The list of installed packages may also be relevant when you migrate to a new machine. Different distros have different commands for obtaining a list of installed packages, and different ways of using that on the new machine to restore the same package selection. This is useful and typically can get you started much faster on the new machine.
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 3
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1700470013 {#2067
    date: 2023-11-20 09:46:53.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@UnRelatedBurner@sh.itjust.works"
    "@bizdelnick@lemmy.ml"
    "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2051 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2059 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2047 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2057 …}
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  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2054 …}
  -id: 142346
  -bodyTs: "'/etc':6,82,97 '/etc/fstab':207 'admin':186 'also':246 'anoth':32 'asid':101 'autodetect':189 'back':21 'basi':88 'best':75,181 'case':85,87 'choos':79 'clarifi':5 'command':260 'config':49,51,201,235 'copi':216,233 'could':230 'coupl':151 'cup':177,185 'daemon':146 'differ':256,259,269 'dig':120 'direct':30 'disk':222 'distro':257 'doesn':37 'edit':220 'etc':52 'even':53 'exact':41 'exampl':138 'extrem':135 'faster':294 'file':80,129,202 'get':290 'grab':93 'hand':171 'hardwar':64 'heart':158 'instal':243,266 'interfac':187 'know':156 'like':47,130,206,227 'line':153 'list':241,264 'login':161,164 'machin':15,33,61,67,117,255,277,298 'may':18,213,245 'mess':198 'migrat':59,251 'much':293 'need':105 'network':50 'new':63,254,276,297 'nfs':209 'obtain':262 'old':116 'packag':244,267,282 'password':163 'pick':77 'play':39,69 'print':178 'printer':191 'probabl':36 'raid':211 're':2,56 'reconfigur':143,176 'redo':107 'relev':12,128,248 'restor':279 'role':43,72 'root':160 'said':132 'samba':228 'select':283 'servic':48 'set':99 'someth':108 'specif':136 'ssh':145 'start':292 'straight':236 'stuff':218 'tarbal':95,123 'theori':232 'thing':9,46,205,226 'transferr':29 'tri':57 'turn':159 'typic':288 'use':126,183,272,286 'usual':28,149,195 'uuid':223 'vari':239 'want':19,141,174,196,214 'way':111,270 'welcom':3"
  +ranking: 0
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  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://feddit.nl/comment/4726574"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700470013 {#2070
    date: 2023-11-20 09:46:53.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 142346
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
20 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2049
  +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2191
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2541 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
    +image: null
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2938 …}
    +slug: "Package-up-and-transport-a-linux"
    +title: "Package up and transport a linux?"
    +url: null
    +body: """
      I have a simple wish, with a probably not so simple solution.\n
      \n
      I recently started with linux (Arch kde), I’m loving it, I quickly realized that this OS and almost all apps, are highly customizable, I’m laving that as well. My problem is the unavoidable reinstalls and that I have a laptop.\n
      \n
      Is there any way that I can save all my configs, apps and my apps’ configs, and transfer them over to my laptop, while almost having a very quick back-up. I realize that I could turn it into an ISO somehow, but that wouldn’t work (I think) because my laptop has vastly different hardware. I also realize the partitioning problem. So in my idealistic world, there should be a solution that requires a clean install (from scripts or manual) and some .sh file, that installs all my apps, pastes all my configs and reboots.\n
      \n
      So is this possible? and if yes, how should I go about this? did someone make a tool for this already? Or(!) can I burn it to a flash and the drivers will correct themselves/I’ll deal with them later?\n
      \n
      For final words I’d like to say that I’m far from finished configurating, but I’d like to know the proccess, to not shoot myself in the foot somewhere along the way of configing, thanks!
      """
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        +body: """
          > if I copy my /home (someone said /etc too) over to my laptop, and back it up as well, I’m golden?\n
          \n
          /home yes., but ideally only files and dirs starting with a dot (so called “dotfiles” under your home dir. `tar cvfa homedots.tar.gz /home/username/.??*` should take care of it.\n
          \n
          Please note it will include some large stuff that’s probably not needed, like .cache, or some individual caches for other apps that don’t use .cache, like the browsers.\n
          \n
          Don’t copy /etc, it’s usually machine-specific.\n
          \n
          > would different hostnames and usernames make a problem?\n
          \n
          Hostname no (if you don’t bring etc). Username technically yes, you may want to rename the home dir. The user id and group id are important too but usually off it’s the first user on the same distro it will receive the same ids (typically 1000 nowadays). If not, you can change that manually and recursively `chown 1000:1000 -r /home/username`.
          """
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  +body: """
    You’re welcome.\n
    \n
    To clarify, /etc can have things that are relevant for the machine so you may want to back it up, but it’s not usually transferrable directly to another machine because it probably doesn’t play the exact same role. It has things like service configs, network configs etc.\n
    \n
    Even if you’re trying to migrate a machine to new hardware and the machine will play the same role it’s best to pick and choose files from /etc/ on a case by case basis. What I do is grab a tarball of /etc and set it aside, then if I need to redo something the same way it was on the old machine I can dig through the tarball and only use the relevant files.\n
    \n
    Like I said it’s extremely specific. For example if I want to reconfigure the SSH daemon that’s usually a couple of lines which I know by heart (turn root login and password logins off) which I can do by hand; if I want to reconfigure CUPS printing it’s best to use the CUPS admin interface to autodetect the printer, you don’t usually want to mess with its config files; for some things like /etc/fstab or NFS or RAID I *may* want to copy some stuff but edit the disk UUIDs; for some things like Samba I could in theory copy the config straight over. It varies.\n
    \n
    The list of installed packages may also be relevant when you migrate to a new machine. Different distros have different commands for obtaining a list of installed packages, and different ways of using that on the new machine to restore the same package selection. This is useful and typically can get you started much faster on the new machine.
    """
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    Got me thinking, cuz I’ve done my own solutions (not the popular ones, like OMV and the likes) and they work just fine, I really have no trouble managing them through the terminal, but I thought about other people (maybe people that like more managing things though a web UI) and I was like “is there something like this 🤔?”.\n
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26 DENIED moderate 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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Show voter details
27 DENIED edit 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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Show voter details
28 DENIED moderate 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
29 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
30 DENIED moderate 
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    4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2165
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      ]
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    }
    3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2118
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      +body: "Why doesn’t it start automatically anyway?"
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    2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2126
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      +image: null
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      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2139 …}
      +body: """
        Out of curiosity, what’s the point of installing Bluetooth but keeping it disabled?\n
        \n
        I imagine the opposite would be the default most people wanted (enable it by default and let power users with a bizarre use case disable it manually).
        """
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        "@pastermil@sh.itjust.works"
        "@Jumuta@sh.itjust.works"
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      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2198 …}
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        date: 2023-11-20 12:44:31.0 +01:00
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      +"title": 142593
    }
    1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2252
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      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2041 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
      +image: null
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        "@Synthead@lemmy.world"
        "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
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      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2311 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2293 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2309 …}
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      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2320 …}
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        date: 2023-11-20 14:54:28.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 142818
    }
    0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2312
      +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2041 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2310 …}
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        "@Synthead@lemmy.world"
        "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
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      ]
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    date: 2023-11-18 08:33:04.0 +01:00
  }
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   …2
}
 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
31 DENIED edit 
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2041
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2890 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
  +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3026 …}
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  +children: [
    4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2165
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      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2041 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2104 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2100 …}
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    3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2118
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        Out of curiosity, what’s the point of installing Bluetooth but keeping it disabled?\n
        \n
        I imagine the opposite would be the default most people wanted (enable it by default and let power users with a bizarre use case disable it manually).
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        date: 2023-11-20 12:44:31.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 142593
    }
    1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2252
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        "@Synthead@lemmy.world"
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      +"title": 142818
    }
    0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2312
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      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2041 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
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  ]
  -id: 14090
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    date: 2023-11-18 08:33:04.0 +01:00
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   …2
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
32 DENIED moderate 
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2041
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2890 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
  +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3026 …}
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        Out of curiosity, what’s the point of installing Bluetooth but keeping it disabled?\n
        \n
        I imagine the opposite would be the default most people wanted (enable it by default and let power users with a bizarre use case disable it manually).
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     …2
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"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
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35 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2165
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        +"title": 142591
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2126
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        +body: """
          Out of curiosity, what’s the point of installing Bluetooth but keeping it disabled?\n
          \n
          I imagine the opposite would be the default most people wanted (enable it by default and let power users with a bizarre use case disable it manually).
          """
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2252
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2312
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     …2
  }
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}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
36 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2165
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    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3026 …}
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2126
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          Out of curiosity, what’s the point of installing Bluetooth but keeping it disabled?\n
          \n
          I imagine the opposite would be the default most people wanted (enable it by default and let power users with a bizarre use case disable it manually).
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     …2
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38 DENIED moderate 
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2118}
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          Out of curiosity, what’s the point of installing Bluetooth but keeping it disabled?\n
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2252
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2312
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     …2
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
39 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2118
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2118}
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          Out of curiosity, what’s the point of installing Bluetooth but keeping it disabled?\n
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    -bodyTs: null
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    +ranking: 1700379184
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://discuss.tchncs.de/post/6470707"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700292784 {#2984
      date: 2023-11-18 08:33:04.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2117 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2117 …}
  +body: "Why doesn’t it start automatically anyway?"
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    "@petsoi@discuss.tchncs.de"
    "@Synthead@lemmy.world"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2121 …}
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  -id: 142591
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  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700480629 {#2114
    date: 2023-11-20 12:43:49.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 142591
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
40 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2118
  +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2041
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2890 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3026 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3025 …}
    +slug: "Enabling-Bluetooth-on-Arch-Linux"
    +title: "Enabling Bluetooth on Arch Linux"
    +url: "https://itsfoss.com/bluetooth-arch-linux/"
    +body: null
    +type: "link"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: false
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      date: 2023-11-21 00:42:52.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
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    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3024 …}
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    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3033 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3035 …}
    +children: [
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2165
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        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2041 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2104 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2100 …}
        +body: "What on Earth for. I don’t think I’ve used it more than a couple of times over the last 5 years, and that was for arcane stuff like enabling `rc.local` (which is something every user should probably *not* know about…)"
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          "@petsoi@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@x3i@lemmy.x3i.tech"
          "@Synthead@lemmy.world"
          "@luthis@lemmy.nz"
        ]
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        +"title": 142589
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2118}
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2126
        +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2041 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2043 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2139 …}
        +body: """
          Out of curiosity, what’s the point of installing Bluetooth but keeping it disabled?\n
          \n
          I imagine the opposite would be the default most people wanted (enable it by default and let power users with a bizarre use case disable it manually).
          """
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          date: 2023-11-25 04:20:39.0 +01:00
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          date: 2023-11-20 12:44:31.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 142593
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2252
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        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2041 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2192 …}
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        +body: "So, like, you have to manually enable every service you install?"
        +lang: "en"
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        ]
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        }
        +"title": 142818
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2312
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        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2041 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2310 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2117 …}
        +body: "Because if I install bluetooth it’s because I have some bluetooth devices I want to use?.."
        +lang: "en"
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        +favouriteCount: 0
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          date: 2023-11-20 18:32:00.0 +01:00
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          "@Synthead@lemmy.world"
          "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
          "@sederx@programming.dev"
        ]
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        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2308 …}
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      }
    ]
    -id: 14090
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      date: 2023-11-18 08:33:04.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2117 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2117 …}
  +body: "Why doesn’t it start automatically anyway?"
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  +isAdult: false
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    date: 2023-11-20 12:43:49.0 +01:00
  }
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    "@petsoi@discuss.tchncs.de"
    "@Synthead@lemmy.world"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2121 …}
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  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2123 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2116 …}
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  -id: 142591
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    date: 2023-11-20 12:43:49.0 +01:00
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  +"title": 142591
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
41 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
42 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2126
  +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2041
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2890 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3026 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3025 …}
    +slug: "Enabling-Bluetooth-on-Arch-Linux"
    +title: "Enabling Bluetooth on Arch Linux"
    +url: "https://itsfoss.com/bluetooth-arch-linux/"
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    +hasEmbed: false
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      date: 2023-11-21 00:42:52.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
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    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3033 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3035 …}
    +children: [
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2165
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2104 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2100 …}
        +body: "What on Earth for. I don’t think I’ve used it more than a couple of times over the last 5 years, and that was for arcane stuff like enabling `rc.local` (which is something every user should probably *not* know about…)"
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          "@x3i@lemmy.x3i.tech"
          "@Synthead@lemmy.world"
          "@luthis@lemmy.nz"
        ]
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          date: 2023-11-20 12:42:55.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 142589
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2118
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          "@petsoi@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Synthead@lemmy.world"
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          date: 2023-11-20 12:43:49.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 142591
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2126}
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2252
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
        +image: null
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          "@Synthead@lemmy.world"
          "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
        ]
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          date: 2023-11-20 14:54:28.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 142818
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2312
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        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2041 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2310 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2117 …}
        +body: "Because if I install bluetooth it’s because I have some bluetooth devices I want to use?.."
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          date: 2023-11-20 18:32:00.0 +01:00
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          "@petsoi@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Synthead@lemmy.world"
          "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
          "@sederx@programming.dev"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2307 …}
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    }
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     …2
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  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2043 …}
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    Out of curiosity, what’s the point of installing Bluetooth but keeping it disabled?\n
    \n
    I imagine the opposite would be the default most people wanted (enable it by default and let power users with a bizarre use case disable it manually).
    """
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Show voter details
43 DENIED edit 
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      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2165
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2118
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2126}
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     …2
  }
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  +body: """
    Out of curiosity, what’s the point of installing Bluetooth but keeping it disabled?\n
    \n
    I imagine the opposite would be the default most people wanted (enable it by default and let power users with a bizarre use case disable it manually).
    """
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}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
44 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2126
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2126}
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    Out of curiosity, what’s the point of installing Bluetooth but keeping it disabled?\n
    \n
    I imagine the opposite would be the default most people wanted (enable it by default and let power users with a bizarre use case disable it manually).
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Show voter details
45 DENIED ROLE_USER 
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46 DENIED moderate 
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2126
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          Out of curiosity, what’s the point of installing Bluetooth but keeping it disabled?\n
          \n
          I imagine the opposite would be the default most people wanted (enable it by default and let power users with a bizarre use case disable it manually).
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2252}
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     …2
  }
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
47 DENIED edit 
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          Out of curiosity, what’s the point of installing Bluetooth but keeping it disabled?\n
          \n
          I imagine the opposite would be the default most people wanted (enable it by default and let power users with a bizarre use case disable it manually).
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        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2227 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2214 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2225 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2231 …}
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        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700882439 {#2128
          date: 2023-11-25 04:20:39.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700480671 {#2127
          date: 2023-11-20 12:44:31.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 142593
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2252}
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2312
        +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2041 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2310 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2117 …}
        +body: "Because if I install bluetooth it’s because I have some bluetooth devices I want to use?.."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1700501520 {#2322
          date: 2023-11-20 18:32:00.0 +01:00
        }
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          "@petsoi@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Synthead@lemmy.world"
          "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
          "@sederx@programming.dev"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2307 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2308 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2304 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2319 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2318 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2316 …}
        -id: 143369
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          date: 2023-11-20 18:32:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 143369
      }
    ]
    -id: 14090
    -titleTs: "'arch':4 'bluetooth':2 'enabl':1 'linux':5"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1700379184
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://discuss.tchncs.de/post/6470707"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700292784 {#2984
      date: 2023-11-18 08:33:04.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2192 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2117 …}
  +body: "So, like, you have to manually enable every service you install?"
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
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    date: 2023-11-20 14:54:28.0 +01:00
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    "@petsoi@discuss.tchncs.de"
    "@Synthead@lemmy.world"
    "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2189 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2311 …}
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  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700488468 {#2228
    date: 2023-11-20 14:54:28.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 142818
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
48 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2252
  +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2041
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2890 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3026 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3025 …}
    +slug: "Enabling-Bluetooth-on-Arch-Linux"
    +title: "Enabling Bluetooth on Arch Linux"
    +url: "https://itsfoss.com/bluetooth-arch-linux/"
    +body: null
    +type: "link"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: false
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    +score: 0
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    +lastActive: DateTime @1700523772 {#3002
      date: 2023-11-21 00:42:52.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
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    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3024 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3031 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3027 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3030 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3033 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3035 …}
    +children: [
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2165
        +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2041 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2104 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2100 …}
        +body: "What on Earth for. I don’t think I’ve used it more than a couple of times over the last 5 years, and that was for arcane stuff like enabling `rc.local` (which is something every user should probably *not* know about…)"
        +lang: "en"
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          "@petsoi@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@x3i@lemmy.x3i.tech"
          "@Synthead@lemmy.world"
          "@luthis@lemmy.nz"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2099 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2108 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2101 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2109 …}
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        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2107 …}
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        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-11-20 12:42:55.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 142589
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2118
        +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2041 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2117 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2117 …}
        +body: "Why doesn’t it start automatically anyway?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1700480629 {#2124
          date: 2023-11-20 12:43:49.0 +01:00
        }
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          "@petsoi@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Synthead@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2121 …}
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        +"title": 142591
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2126
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        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2041 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2043 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2139 …}
        +body: """
          Out of curiosity, what’s the point of installing Bluetooth but keeping it disabled?\n
          \n
          I imagine the opposite would be the default most people wanted (enable it by default and let power users with a bizarre use case disable it manually).
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
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          date: 2023-11-20 12:44:31.0 +01:00
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        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@petsoi@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@pastermil@sh.itjust.works"
          "@Jumuta@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700882439 {#2128
          date: 2023-11-25 04:20:39.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700480671 {#2127
          date: 2023-11-20 12:44:31.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 142593
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2252}
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2312
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        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2041 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2310 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2117 …}
        +body: "Because if I install bluetooth it’s because I have some bluetooth devices I want to use?.."
        +lang: "en"
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          "@petsoi@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Synthead@lemmy.world"
          "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
          "@sederx@programming.dev"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2307 …}
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        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2304 …}
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          date: 2023-11-20 18:32:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 143369
      }
    ]
    -id: 14090
    -titleTs: "'arch':4 'bluetooth':2 'enabl':1 'linux':5"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
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    +ranking: 1700379184
    +visibility: "visible             "
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    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700292784 {#2984
      date: 2023-11-18 08:33:04.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2192 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2117 …}
  +body: "So, like, you have to manually enable every service you install?"
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 1
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1700488468 {#2229
    date: 2023-11-20 14:54:28.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
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  +mentions: [
    "@petsoi@discuss.tchncs.de"
    "@Synthead@lemmy.world"
    "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2189 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2311 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2293 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2309 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2302 …}
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  -id: 142818
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    date: 2023-11-20 14:54:28.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 142818
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
49 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
50 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2312
  +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2041
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2890 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3026 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3025 …}
    +slug: "Enabling-Bluetooth-on-Arch-Linux"
    +title: "Enabling Bluetooth on Arch Linux"
    +url: "https://itsfoss.com/bluetooth-arch-linux/"
    +body: null
    +type: "link"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: false
    +commentCount: 27
    +favouriteCount: 18
    +score: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +sticky: false
    +lastActive: DateTime @1700523772 {#3002
      date: 2023-11-21 00:42:52.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3024 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3031 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3027 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3030 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3033 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3035 …}
    +children: [
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2165
        +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2041 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2104 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2100 …}
        +body: "What on Earth for. I don’t think I’ve used it more than a couple of times over the last 5 years, and that was for arcane stuff like enabling `rc.local` (which is something every user should probably *not* know about…)"
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          date: 2023-11-20 12:42:55.0 +01:00
        }
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          "@petsoi@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@x3i@lemmy.x3i.tech"
          "@Synthead@lemmy.world"
          "@luthis@lemmy.nz"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2099 …}
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700480575 {#2125
          date: 2023-11-20 12:42:55.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 142589
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2118
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        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2117 …}
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        +body: "Why doesn’t it start automatically anyway?"
        +lang: "en"
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        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
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          date: 2023-11-20 12:43:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
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        +mentions: [
          "@petsoi@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Synthead@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2121 …}
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        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2123 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2116 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2161 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2163 …}
        -id: 142591
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        }
        +"title": 142591
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2126
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        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2043 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2139 …}
        +body: """
          Out of curiosity, what’s the point of installing Bluetooth but keeping it disabled?\n
          \n
          I imagine the opposite would be the default most people wanted (enable it by default and let power users with a bizarre use case disable it manually).
          """
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          "@pastermil@sh.itjust.works"
          "@Jumuta@sh.itjust.works"
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          date: 2023-11-20 12:44:31.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 142593
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2252
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        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2041 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
        +image: null
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          "@Synthead@lemmy.world"
          "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2189 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2311 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2293 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2309 …}
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        +"title": 142818
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2312}
    ]
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700292784 {#2984
      date: 2023-11-18 08:33:04.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2310 …}
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    "@Synthead@lemmy.world"
    "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    "@sederx@programming.dev"
  ]
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}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
51 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2312
  +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2041
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2890 …}
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    +slug: "Enabling-Bluetooth-on-Arch-Linux"
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    +children: [
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2165
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        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2041 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2104 …}
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          "@x3i@lemmy.x3i.tech"
          "@Synthead@lemmy.world"
          "@luthis@lemmy.nz"
        ]
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          date: 2023-11-20 12:42:55.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 142589
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2118
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        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2041 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2117 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2117 …}
        +body: "Why doesn’t it start automatically anyway?"
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          date: 2023-11-20 12:43:49.0 +01:00
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      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2126
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        +body: """
          Out of curiosity, what’s the point of installing Bluetooth but keeping it disabled?\n
          \n
          I imagine the opposite would be the default most people wanted (enable it by default and let power users with a bizarre use case disable it manually).
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
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          date: 2023-11-20 12:44:31.0 +01:00
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          "@petsoi@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@pastermil@sh.itjust.works"
          "@Jumuta@sh.itjust.works"
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          date: 2023-11-20 12:44:31.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 142593
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2252
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        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2041 …2}
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        +image: null
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        +body: "So, like, you have to manually enable every service you install?"
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          "@petsoi@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Synthead@lemmy.world"
          "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
        ]
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        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2311 …}
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        -id: 142818
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2312}
    ]
    -id: 14090
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700292784 {#2984
      date: 2023-11-18 08:33:04.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2310 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2117 …}
  +body: "Because if I install bluetooth it’s because I have some bluetooth devices I want to use?.."
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    "@Synthead@lemmy.world"
    "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    "@sederx@programming.dev"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2307 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2308 …}
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  +"title": 143369
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
52 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2312
  +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2041
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2890 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3026 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3025 …}
    +slug: "Enabling-Bluetooth-on-Arch-Linux"
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      date: 2023-11-21 00:42:52.0 +01:00
    }
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    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3024 …}
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    +children: [
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2165
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        +body: "What on Earth for. I don’t think I’ve used it more than a couple of times over the last 5 years, and that was for arcane stuff like enabling `rc.local` (which is something every user should probably *not* know about…)"
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          "@x3i@lemmy.x3i.tech"
          "@Synthead@lemmy.world"
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        +"title": 142589
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2118
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        -id: 142591
        -bodyTs: "'anyway':7 'automat':6 'doesn':2 'start':5"
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        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700480629 {#2114
          date: 2023-11-20 12:43:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 142591
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2126
        +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2041 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2043 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2139 …}
        +body: """
          Out of curiosity, what’s the point of installing Bluetooth but keeping it disabled?\n
          \n
          I imagine the opposite would be the default most people wanted (enable it by default and let power users with a bizarre use case disable it manually).
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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        +score: 0
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          date: 2023-11-20 12:44:31.0 +01:00
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          "@petsoi@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@pastermil@sh.itjust.works"
          "@Jumuta@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2215 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2198 …}
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        -bodyTs: "'bizarr':36 'bluetooth':10 'case':38 'curios':3 'default':22,29 'disabl':14,39 'enabl':26 'imagin':16 'instal':9 'keep':12 'let':31 'manual':41 'opposit':18 'peopl':24 'point':7 'power':32 'use':37 'user':33 'want':25 'would':19"
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        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700882439 {#2128
          date: 2023-11-25 04:20:39.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700480671 {#2127
          date: 2023-11-20 12:44:31.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 142593
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2252
        +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2041 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2192 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2117 …}
        +body: "So, like, you have to manually enable every service you install?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1700488468 {#2229
          date: 2023-11-20 14:54:28.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@petsoi@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Synthead@lemmy.world"
          "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2189 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2311 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2293 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2309 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2302 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2320 …}
        -id: 142818
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700488468 {#2228
          date: 2023-11-20 14:54:28.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 142818
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2312}
    ]
    -id: 14090
    -titleTs: "'arch':4 'bluetooth':2 'enabl':1 'linux':5"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
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    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://discuss.tchncs.de/post/6470707"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700292784 {#2984
      date: 2023-11-18 08:33:04.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2310 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2117 …}
  +body: "Because if I install bluetooth it’s because I have some bluetooth devices I want to use?.."
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 0
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1700501520 {#2322
    date: 2023-11-20 18:32:00.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@petsoi@discuss.tchncs.de"
    "@Synthead@lemmy.world"
    "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
    "@sederx@programming.dev"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2307 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2308 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2304 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2319 …}
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  -id: 143369
  -bodyTs: "'bluetooth':5,12 'devic':13 'instal':4 'use':17 'want':15"
  +ranking: 0
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  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700501520 {#2321
    date: 2023-11-20 18:32:00.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 143369
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
53 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
54 DENIED moderate 
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2389
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#3057 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
  +image: null
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2938 …}
  +slug: "How-to-keep-all-email-locally-in-a-useful-format"
  +title: "How to keep all email locally in a useful format that can be searched across devices?"
  +url: null
  +body: """
    I have an account on an SMTP server. The server has a storage quota. I’d like the delete stuff from the server but keep it locally in case I need it. Just in case.\n
    \n
    I’d like to be able to access the mail somehow on other computers and hopefully mobile devices on my network so that it can be searched when needed. I’m not sure what the best interface for that would be. A webmail client?\n
    \n
    One option would be to use Thunderbird or another client to download the mail once in a while but disable deleting local messages when they are removed from the server. Would Thunderbird store the messages in a format I can use readily with other applications? Or should I use something else to download the mail?\n
    \n
    What about situations where messages are moved from one folder to another on the server? Would I get a duplicate locally of the message appearing in both locations? Not sure how the storage and metadata actually are.\n
    \n
    Also, is it possible in such a situation to put a message *back* on the server if I realize it was deleted in error?\n
    \n
    Any idea would be welcome. I am a bit stuck.\n
    \n
    I can use the command line comfortably but ideally I’d have a solution that doesn’t rely on the terminal to find find messages and such. I don’t really like terminal mail clients.
    """
  +type: "article"
  +lang: "en"
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  +lastActive: DateTime @1700654753 {#3089
    date: 2023-11-22 13:05:53.0 +01:00
  }
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    App\Entity\EntryComment {#2391
      +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2389 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: null
      +root: null
      +body: """
        What I do is use Claws Mail with POP3, it has an option that allows a message to only be deleted from the server after a configurable period of time. So if you set it for 10 days for example the message will exist both locally on your PC and on the server for 10 days, after which it will only exist on the PC.\n
        \n
        It works pretty well in general. The only account giving me some trouble is Yahoo, which I suspect has some quirks, which occasionally cause the messages to be downloaded again and duplicated. Thankfully it’s easily fixed because Claws also has a feature to delete duplicates.\n
        \n
        This approach is different from IMAP, which would maintain a local offline cache of the live inbox, but you wouldn’t be able to only keep local messages — any change in one side would be reflected in both.\n
        \n
        However, Claws allows you to do both. You can have both a POP3 and an IMAP account connected to the same live box use the POP3 for offline archival, and the IMAP for when you want to put something back on the server, or if you need to look at other folders on the server besides inbox (POP3 cab only see the inbox, not trash, sent etc.)\n
        \n
        Normally I only do folders locally on the PC, on the mailbox connected with POP3, so none of the organization is reflected on the live mailbox, which is inbox only. Every once in a while I connect via IMAP to recover emails from the sent folder, which I’ve sent with webmail or from mobile (using IMAP on mobile too).\n
        \n
        If this doesn’t fit your workflow turn there are lots of IMAP syncing tools like you’ve noticed. IMAPsync is pretty good.\n
        \n
        The last step for my workflow would be to self host an IMAP server that will index the POP3 mailbox, and expose it read-only (without SMTP) through a webmail app, for archival and search only. I may have to look at Piler. The quirk here is that the Claws mailbox format is *slightly* different from IMAP, it’s very similar to mbox but not identical, will have to see if any IMAP server will accept it.\n
        \n
        Thunderbird is no go unfortunately, its main box format is to keep all messages on one big file instead of individual files, which complicates things a lot.
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 1
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1700277723 {#1407
        date: 2023-11-18 04:22:03.0 +01:00
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        "@crank@beehaw.org"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2369 …}
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      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1384 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1383 …}
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  -id: 14004
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    date: 2023-11-18 01:01:01.0 +01:00
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   …2
}
 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
55 DENIED edit 
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2389
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#3057 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
  +image: null
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2938 …}
  +slug: "How-to-keep-all-email-locally-in-a-useful-format"
  +title: "How to keep all email locally in a useful format that can be searched across devices?"
  +url: null
  +body: """
    I have an account on an SMTP server. The server has a storage quota. I’d like the delete stuff from the server but keep it locally in case I need it. Just in case.\n
    \n
    I’d like to be able to access the mail somehow on other computers and hopefully mobile devices on my network so that it can be searched when needed. I’m not sure what the best interface for that would be. A webmail client?\n
    \n
    One option would be to use Thunderbird or another client to download the mail once in a while but disable deleting local messages when they are removed from the server. Would Thunderbird store the messages in a format I can use readily with other applications? Or should I use something else to download the mail?\n
    \n
    What about situations where messages are moved from one folder to another on the server? Would I get a duplicate locally of the message appearing in both locations? Not sure how the storage and metadata actually are.\n
    \n
    Also, is it possible in such a situation to put a message *back* on the server if I realize it was deleted in error?\n
    \n
    Any idea would be welcome. I am a bit stuck.\n
    \n
    I can use the command line comfortably but ideally I’d have a solution that doesn’t rely on the terminal to find find messages and such. I don’t really like terminal mail clients.
    """
  +type: "article"
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  +lastActive: DateTime @1700654753 {#3089
    date: 2023-11-22 13:05:53.0 +01:00
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  +ip: null
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  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3103 …}
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  +children: [
    App\Entity\EntryComment {#2391
      +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2389 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: null
      +root: null
      +body: """
        What I do is use Claws Mail with POP3, it has an option that allows a message to only be deleted from the server after a configurable period of time. So if you set it for 10 days for example the message will exist both locally on your PC and on the server for 10 days, after which it will only exist on the PC.\n
        \n
        It works pretty well in general. The only account giving me some trouble is Yahoo, which I suspect has some quirks, which occasionally cause the messages to be downloaded again and duplicated. Thankfully it’s easily fixed because Claws also has a feature to delete duplicates.\n
        \n
        This approach is different from IMAP, which would maintain a local offline cache of the live inbox, but you wouldn’t be able to only keep local messages — any change in one side would be reflected in both.\n
        \n
        However, Claws allows you to do both. You can have both a POP3 and an IMAP account connected to the same live box use the POP3 for offline archival, and the IMAP for when you want to put something back on the server, or if you need to look at other folders on the server besides inbox (POP3 cab only see the inbox, not trash, sent etc.)\n
        \n
        Normally I only do folders locally on the PC, on the mailbox connected with POP3, so none of the organization is reflected on the live mailbox, which is inbox only. Every once in a while I connect via IMAP to recover emails from the sent folder, which I’ve sent with webmail or from mobile (using IMAP on mobile too).\n
        \n
        If this doesn’t fit your workflow turn there are lots of IMAP syncing tools like you’ve noticed. IMAPsync is pretty good.\n
        \n
        The last step for my workflow would be to self host an IMAP server that will index the POP3 mailbox, and expose it read-only (without SMTP) through a webmail app, for archival and search only. I may have to look at Piler. The quirk here is that the Claws mailbox format is *slightly* different from IMAP, it’s very similar to mbox but not identical, will have to see if any IMAP server will accept it.\n
        \n
        Thunderbird is no go unfortunately, its main box format is to keep all messages on one big file instead of individual files, which complicates things a lot.
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 1
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      +lastActive: DateTime @1700277723 {#1407
        date: 2023-11-18 04:22:03.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
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        "@crank@beehaw.org"
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      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2369 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2392 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2395 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1384 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1383 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1405 …}
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      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://feddit.nl/comment/4672982"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700277723 {#1883
        date: 2023-11-18 04:22:03.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 135856
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    date: 2023-11-18 01:01:01.0 +01:00
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   …2
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
56 DENIED moderate 
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2389
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#3057 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
  +image: null
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2938 …}
  +slug: "How-to-keep-all-email-locally-in-a-useful-format"
  +title: "How to keep all email locally in a useful format that can be searched across devices?"
  +url: null
  +body: """
    I have an account on an SMTP server. The server has a storage quota. I’d like the delete stuff from the server but keep it locally in case I need it. Just in case.\n
    \n
    I’d like to be able to access the mail somehow on other computers and hopefully mobile devices on my network so that it can be searched when needed. I’m not sure what the best interface for that would be. A webmail client?\n
    \n
    One option would be to use Thunderbird or another client to download the mail once in a while but disable deleting local messages when they are removed from the server. Would Thunderbird store the messages in a format I can use readily with other applications? Or should I use something else to download the mail?\n
    \n
    What about situations where messages are moved from one folder to another on the server? Would I get a duplicate locally of the message appearing in both locations? Not sure how the storage and metadata actually are.\n
    \n
    Also, is it possible in such a situation to put a message *back* on the server if I realize it was deleted in error?\n
    \n
    Any idea would be welcome. I am a bit stuck.\n
    \n
    I can use the command line comfortably but ideally I’d have a solution that doesn’t rely on the terminal to find find messages and such. I don’t really like terminal mail clients.
    """
  +type: "article"
  +lang: "en"
  +isOc: false
  +hasEmbed: false
  +commentCount: 33
  +favouriteCount: 31
  +score: 0
  +isAdult: false
  +sticky: false
  +lastActive: DateTime @1700654753 {#3089
    date: 2023-11-22 13:05:53.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +adaAmount: 0
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  +mentions: null
  +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3094 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3097 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3099 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3101 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3103 …}
  +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3105 …}
  +children: [
    App\Entity\EntryComment {#2391
      +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2389 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: null
      +root: null
      +body: """
        What I do is use Claws Mail with POP3, it has an option that allows a message to only be deleted from the server after a configurable period of time. So if you set it for 10 days for example the message will exist both locally on your PC and on the server for 10 days, after which it will only exist on the PC.\n
        \n
        It works pretty well in general. The only account giving me some trouble is Yahoo, which I suspect has some quirks, which occasionally cause the messages to be downloaded again and duplicated. Thankfully it’s easily fixed because Claws also has a feature to delete duplicates.\n
        \n
        This approach is different from IMAP, which would maintain a local offline cache of the live inbox, but you wouldn’t be able to only keep local messages — any change in one side would be reflected in both.\n
        \n
        However, Claws allows you to do both. You can have both a POP3 and an IMAP account connected to the same live box use the POP3 for offline archival, and the IMAP for when you want to put something back on the server, or if you need to look at other folders on the server besides inbox (POP3 cab only see the inbox, not trash, sent etc.)\n
        \n
        Normally I only do folders locally on the PC, on the mailbox connected with POP3, so none of the organization is reflected on the live mailbox, which is inbox only. Every once in a while I connect via IMAP to recover emails from the sent folder, which I’ve sent with webmail or from mobile (using IMAP on mobile too).\n
        \n
        If this doesn’t fit your workflow turn there are lots of IMAP syncing tools like you’ve noticed. IMAPsync is pretty good.\n
        \n
        The last step for my workflow would be to self host an IMAP server that will index the POP3 mailbox, and expose it read-only (without SMTP) through a webmail app, for archival and search only. I may have to look at Piler. The quirk here is that the Claws mailbox format is *slightly* different from IMAP, it’s very similar to mbox but not identical, will have to see if any IMAP server will accept it.\n
        \n
        Thunderbird is no go unfortunately, its main box format is to keep all messages on one big file instead of individual files, which complicates things a lot.
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 1
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1700277723 {#1407
        date: 2023-11-18 04:22:03.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@crank@beehaw.org"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2369 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2392 …}
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      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1384 …}
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      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1405 …}
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      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://feddit.nl/comment/4672982"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700277723 {#1883
        date: 2023-11-18 04:22:03.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 135856
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  -id: 14004
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  +cross: false
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  +downVotes: 0
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  +apId: "https://beehaw.org/post/9647306"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700265661 {#3077
    date: 2023-11-18 01:01:01.0 +01:00
  }
  +__isInitialized__: true
   …2
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
57 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
58 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2391
  +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2389
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#3057 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
    +image: null
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2938 …}
    +slug: "How-to-keep-all-email-locally-in-a-useful-format"
    +title: "How to keep all email locally in a useful format that can be searched across devices?"
    +url: null
    +body: """
      I have an account on an SMTP server. The server has a storage quota. I’d like the delete stuff from the server but keep it locally in case I need it. Just in case.\n
      \n
      I’d like to be able to access the mail somehow on other computers and hopefully mobile devices on my network so that it can be searched when needed. I’m not sure what the best interface for that would be. A webmail client?\n
      \n
      One option would be to use Thunderbird or another client to download the mail once in a while but disable deleting local messages when they are removed from the server. Would Thunderbird store the messages in a format I can use readily with other applications? Or should I use something else to download the mail?\n
      \n
      What about situations where messages are moved from one folder to another on the server? Would I get a duplicate locally of the message appearing in both locations? Not sure how the storage and metadata actually are.\n
      \n
      Also, is it possible in such a situation to put a message *back* on the server if I realize it was deleted in error?\n
      \n
      Any idea would be welcome. I am a bit stuck.\n
      \n
      I can use the command line comfortably but ideally I’d have a solution that doesn’t rely on the terminal to find find messages and such. I don’t really like terminal mail clients.
      """
    +type: "article"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: false
    +commentCount: 33
    +favouriteCount: 31
    +score: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +sticky: false
    +lastActive: DateTime @1700654753 {#3089
      date: 2023-11-22 13:05:53.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
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    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3094 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3097 …}
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    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3101 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3103 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3105 …}
    +children: [
      App\Entity\EntryComment {#2391}
    ]
    -id: 14004
    -titleTs: "'across':15 'devic':16 'email':5 'format':10 'keep':3 'local':6 'search':14 'use':9"
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    +cross: false
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    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1700352061
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://beehaw.org/post/9647306"
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700265661 {#3077
      date: 2023-11-18 01:01:01.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: null
  +root: null
  +body: """
    What I do is use Claws Mail with POP3, it has an option that allows a message to only be deleted from the server after a configurable period of time. So if you set it for 10 days for example the message will exist both locally on your PC and on the server for 10 days, after which it will only exist on the PC.\n
    \n
    It works pretty well in general. The only account giving me some trouble is Yahoo, which I suspect has some quirks, which occasionally cause the messages to be downloaded again and duplicated. Thankfully it’s easily fixed because Claws also has a feature to delete duplicates.\n
    \n
    This approach is different from IMAP, which would maintain a local offline cache of the live inbox, but you wouldn’t be able to only keep local messages — any change in one side would be reflected in both.\n
    \n
    However, Claws allows you to do both. You can have both a POP3 and an IMAP account connected to the same live box use the POP3 for offline archival, and the IMAP for when you want to put something back on the server, or if you need to look at other folders on the server besides inbox (POP3 cab only see the inbox, not trash, sent etc.)\n
    \n
    Normally I only do folders locally on the PC, on the mailbox connected with POP3, so none of the organization is reflected on the live mailbox, which is inbox only. Every once in a while I connect via IMAP to recover emails from the sent folder, which I’ve sent with webmail or from mobile (using IMAP on mobile too).\n
    \n
    If this doesn’t fit your workflow turn there are lots of IMAP syncing tools like you’ve noticed. IMAPsync is pretty good.\n
    \n
    The last step for my workflow would be to self host an IMAP server that will index the POP3 mailbox, and expose it read-only (without SMTP) through a webmail app, for archival and search only. I may have to look at Piler. The quirk here is that the Claws mailbox format is *slightly* different from IMAP, it’s very similar to mbox but not identical, will have to see if any IMAP server will accept it.\n
    \n
    Thunderbird is no go unfortunately, its main box format is to keep all messages on one big file instead of individual files, which complicates things a lot.
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 1
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1700277723 {#1407
    date: 2023-11-18 04:22:03.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@crank@beehaw.org"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2369 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2392 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2395 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1384 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1383 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1405 …}
  -id: 135856
  -bodyTs: "'10':37,55 'abl':134 'accept':376 'account':74,166 'allow':15,152 'also':105 'app':331 'approach':113 'archiv':178,333 'back':189 'besid':205 'big':394 'box':172,385 'cab':208 'cach':124 'caus':89 'chang':141 'claw':6,104,151,350 'complic':401 'configur':27 'connect':167,229,253 'day':38,56 'delet':21,110 'differ':115,355 'doesn':279 'download':94 'duplic':97,111 'easili':101 'email':258 'etc':216 'everi':247 'exampl':40 'exist':44,62 'expos':321 'featur':108 'file':395,399 'fit':281 'fix':102 'folder':201,221,262 'format':352,386 'general':71 'give':75 'go':381 'good':299 'host':310 'howev':150 'ident':366 'imap':117,165,181,255,273,289,312,357,373 'imapsync':296 'inbox':128,206,212,245 'index':316 'individu':398 'instead':396 'keep':137,389 'last':301 'like':292 'live':127,171,241 'local':46,122,138,222 'look':198,341 'lot':287,404 'mail':7 'mailbox':228,242,319,351 'main':384 'maintain':120 'may':338 'mbox':363 'messag':17,42,91,139,391 'mobil':271,275 'need':196 'none':233 'normal':217 'notic':295 'occasion':88 'offlin':123,177 'one':143,393 'option':13 'organ':236 'pc':49,65,225 'period':28 'piler':343 'pop3':9,162,175,207,231,318 'pretti':68,298 'put':187 'quirk':86,345 'read':324 'read-on':323 'recov':257 'reflect':147,238 'search':335 'see':210,370 'self':309 'sent':215,261,266 'server':24,53,192,204,313,374 'set':34 'side':144 'similar':361 'slight':354 'smtp':327 'someth':188 'step':302 'suspect':83 'sync':290 'thank':98 'thing':402 'thunderbird':378 'time':30 'tool':291 'trash':214 'troubl':78 'turn':284 'unfortun':382 'use':5,173,272 've':265,294 'via':254 'want':185 'webmail':268,330 'well':69 'without':326 'work':67 'workflow':283,305 'would':119,145,306 'wouldn':131 'yahoo':80"
  +ranking: 0
  +commentCount: 0
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://feddit.nl/comment/4672982"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700277723 {#1883
    date: 2023-11-18 04:22:03.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 135856
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
59 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2391
  +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2389
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#3057 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
    +image: null
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2938 …}
    +slug: "How-to-keep-all-email-locally-in-a-useful-format"
    +title: "How to keep all email locally in a useful format that can be searched across devices?"
    +url: null
    +body: """
      I have an account on an SMTP server. The server has a storage quota. I’d like the delete stuff from the server but keep it locally in case I need it. Just in case.\n
      \n
      I’d like to be able to access the mail somehow on other computers and hopefully mobile devices on my network so that it can be searched when needed. I’m not sure what the best interface for that would be. A webmail client?\n
      \n
      One option would be to use Thunderbird or another client to download the mail once in a while but disable deleting local messages when they are removed from the server. Would Thunderbird store the messages in a format I can use readily with other applications? Or should I use something else to download the mail?\n
      \n
      What about situations where messages are moved from one folder to another on the server? Would I get a duplicate locally of the message appearing in both locations? Not sure how the storage and metadata actually are.\n
      \n
      Also, is it possible in such a situation to put a message *back* on the server if I realize it was deleted in error?\n
      \n
      Any idea would be welcome. I am a bit stuck.\n
      \n
      I can use the command line comfortably but ideally I’d have a solution that doesn’t rely on the terminal to find find messages and such. I don’t really like terminal mail clients.
      """
    +type: "article"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: false
    +commentCount: 33
    +favouriteCount: 31
    +score: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +sticky: false
    +lastActive: DateTime @1700654753 {#3089
      date: 2023-11-22 13:05:53.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3094 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3097 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3099 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3101 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3103 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3105 …}
    +children: [
      App\Entity\EntryComment {#2391}
    ]
    -id: 14004
    -titleTs: "'across':15 'devic':16 'email':5 'format':10 'keep':3 'local':6 'search':14 'use':9"
    -bodyTs: "'abl':41 'access':43 'account':4 'actual':170 'also':172 'anoth':88,146 'appear':159 'applic':124 'back':184 'best':71 'bit':204 'case':29,35 'client':79,89,240 'comfort':212 'command':210 'comput':49 'd':16,37,216 'delet':19,100,193 'devic':53 'disabl':99 'doesn':221 'download':91,132 'duplic':154 'els':130 'error':195 'find':228,229 'folder':144 'format':117 'get':152 'hope':51 'idea':197 'ideal':214 'interfac':72 'keep':25 'like':17,38,237 'line':211 'local':27,101,155 'locat':162 'm':66 'mail':45,93,134,239 'messag':102,114,139,158,183,230 'metadata':169 'mobil':52 'move':141 'need':31,64 'network':56 'one':80,143 'option':81 'possibl':175 'put':181 'quota':14 'readili':121 'realiz':190 'realli':236 'reli':223 'remov':106 'search':62 'server':8,10,23,109,149,187 'situat':137,179 'smtp':7 'solut':219 'somehow':46 'someth':129 'storag':13,167 'store':112 'stuck':205 'stuff':20 'sure':68,164 'termin':226,238 'thunderbird':86,111 'use':85,120,128,208 'webmail':78 'welcom':200 'would':75,82,110,150,198"
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1700352061
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://beehaw.org/post/9647306"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700265661 {#3077
      date: 2023-11-18 01:01:01.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: null
  +root: null
  +body: """
    What I do is use Claws Mail with POP3, it has an option that allows a message to only be deleted from the server after a configurable period of time. So if you set it for 10 days for example the message will exist both locally on your PC and on the server for 10 days, after which it will only exist on the PC.\n
    \n
    It works pretty well in general. The only account giving me some trouble is Yahoo, which I suspect has some quirks, which occasionally cause the messages to be downloaded again and duplicated. Thankfully it’s easily fixed because Claws also has a feature to delete duplicates.\n
    \n
    This approach is different from IMAP, which would maintain a local offline cache of the live inbox, but you wouldn’t be able to only keep local messages — any change in one side would be reflected in both.\n
    \n
    However, Claws allows you to do both. You can have both a POP3 and an IMAP account connected to the same live box use the POP3 for offline archival, and the IMAP for when you want to put something back on the server, or if you need to look at other folders on the server besides inbox (POP3 cab only see the inbox, not trash, sent etc.)\n
    \n
    Normally I only do folders locally on the PC, on the mailbox connected with POP3, so none of the organization is reflected on the live mailbox, which is inbox only. Every once in a while I connect via IMAP to recover emails from the sent folder, which I’ve sent with webmail or from mobile (using IMAP on mobile too).\n
    \n
    If this doesn’t fit your workflow turn there are lots of IMAP syncing tools like you’ve noticed. IMAPsync is pretty good.\n
    \n
    The last step for my workflow would be to self host an IMAP server that will index the POP3 mailbox, and expose it read-only (without SMTP) through a webmail app, for archival and search only. I may have to look at Piler. The quirk here is that the Claws mailbox format is *slightly* different from IMAP, it’s very similar to mbox but not identical, will have to see if any IMAP server will accept it.\n
    \n
    Thunderbird is no go unfortunately, its main box format is to keep all messages on one big file instead of individual files, which complicates things a lot.
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 1
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1700277723 {#1407
    date: 2023-11-18 04:22:03.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@crank@beehaw.org"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2369 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2392 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2395 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1384 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1383 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1405 …}
  -id: 135856
  -bodyTs: "'10':37,55 'abl':134 'accept':376 'account':74,166 'allow':15,152 'also':105 'app':331 'approach':113 'archiv':178,333 'back':189 'besid':205 'big':394 'box':172,385 'cab':208 'cach':124 'caus':89 'chang':141 'claw':6,104,151,350 'complic':401 'configur':27 'connect':167,229,253 'day':38,56 'delet':21,110 'differ':115,355 'doesn':279 'download':94 'duplic':97,111 'easili':101 'email':258 'etc':216 'everi':247 'exampl':40 'exist':44,62 'expos':321 'featur':108 'file':395,399 'fit':281 'fix':102 'folder':201,221,262 'format':352,386 'general':71 'give':75 'go':381 'good':299 'host':310 'howev':150 'ident':366 'imap':117,165,181,255,273,289,312,357,373 'imapsync':296 'inbox':128,206,212,245 'index':316 'individu':398 'instead':396 'keep':137,389 'last':301 'like':292 'live':127,171,241 'local':46,122,138,222 'look':198,341 'lot':287,404 'mail':7 'mailbox':228,242,319,351 'main':384 'maintain':120 'may':338 'mbox':363 'messag':17,42,91,139,391 'mobil':271,275 'need':196 'none':233 'normal':217 'notic':295 'occasion':88 'offlin':123,177 'one':143,393 'option':13 'organ':236 'pc':49,65,225 'period':28 'piler':343 'pop3':9,162,175,207,231,318 'pretti':68,298 'put':187 'quirk':86,345 'read':324 'read-on':323 'recov':257 'reflect':147,238 'search':335 'see':210,370 'self':309 'sent':215,261,266 'server':24,53,192,204,313,374 'set':34 'side':144 'similar':361 'slight':354 'smtp':327 'someth':188 'step':302 'suspect':83 'sync':290 'thank':98 'thing':402 'thunderbird':378 'time':30 'tool':291 'trash':214 'troubl':78 'turn':284 'unfortun':382 'use':5,173,272 've':265,294 'via':254 'want':185 'webmail':268,330 'well':69 'without':326 'work':67 'workflow':283,305 'would':119,145,306 'wouldn':131 'yahoo':80"
  +ranking: 0
  +commentCount: 0
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://feddit.nl/comment/4672982"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700277723 {#1883
    date: 2023-11-18 04:22:03.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 135856
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
60 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2391
  +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2389
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#3057 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
    +image: null
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2938 …}
    +slug: "How-to-keep-all-email-locally-in-a-useful-format"
    +title: "How to keep all email locally in a useful format that can be searched across devices?"
    +url: null
    +body: """
      I have an account on an SMTP server. The server has a storage quota. I’d like the delete stuff from the server but keep it locally in case I need it. Just in case.\n
      \n
      I’d like to be able to access the mail somehow on other computers and hopefully mobile devices on my network so that it can be searched when needed. I’m not sure what the best interface for that would be. A webmail client?\n
      \n
      One option would be to use Thunderbird or another client to download the mail once in a while but disable deleting local messages when they are removed from the server. Would Thunderbird store the messages in a format I can use readily with other applications? Or should I use something else to download the mail?\n
      \n
      What about situations where messages are moved from one folder to another on the server? Would I get a duplicate locally of the message appearing in both locations? Not sure how the storage and metadata actually are.\n
      \n
      Also, is it possible in such a situation to put a message *back* on the server if I realize it was deleted in error?\n
      \n
      Any idea would be welcome. I am a bit stuck.\n
      \n
      I can use the command line comfortably but ideally I’d have a solution that doesn’t rely on the terminal to find find messages and such. I don’t really like terminal mail clients.
      """
    +type: "article"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: false
    +commentCount: 33
    +favouriteCount: 31
    +score: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +sticky: false
    +lastActive: DateTime @1700654753 {#3089
      date: 2023-11-22 13:05:53.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3094 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3097 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3099 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3101 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3103 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3105 …}
    +children: [
      App\Entity\EntryComment {#2391}
    ]
    -id: 14004
    -titleTs: "'across':15 'devic':16 'email':5 'format':10 'keep':3 'local':6 'search':14 'use':9"
    -bodyTs: "'abl':41 'access':43 'account':4 'actual':170 'also':172 'anoth':88,146 'appear':159 'applic':124 'back':184 'best':71 'bit':204 'case':29,35 'client':79,89,240 'comfort':212 'command':210 'comput':49 'd':16,37,216 'delet':19,100,193 'devic':53 'disabl':99 'doesn':221 'download':91,132 'duplic':154 'els':130 'error':195 'find':228,229 'folder':144 'format':117 'get':152 'hope':51 'idea':197 'ideal':214 'interfac':72 'keep':25 'like':17,38,237 'line':211 'local':27,101,155 'locat':162 'm':66 'mail':45,93,134,239 'messag':102,114,139,158,183,230 'metadata':169 'mobil':52 'move':141 'need':31,64 'network':56 'one':80,143 'option':81 'possibl':175 'put':181 'quota':14 'readili':121 'realiz':190 'realli':236 'reli':223 'remov':106 'search':62 'server':8,10,23,109,149,187 'situat':137,179 'smtp':7 'solut':219 'somehow':46 'someth':129 'storag':13,167 'store':112 'stuck':205 'stuff':20 'sure':68,164 'termin':226,238 'thunderbird':86,111 'use':85,120,128,208 'webmail':78 'welcom':200 'would':75,82,110,150,198"
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1700352061
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://beehaw.org/post/9647306"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700265661 {#3077
      date: 2023-11-18 01:01:01.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: null
  +root: null
  +body: """
    What I do is use Claws Mail with POP3, it has an option that allows a message to only be deleted from the server after a configurable period of time. So if you set it for 10 days for example the message will exist both locally on your PC and on the server for 10 days, after which it will only exist on the PC.\n
    \n
    It works pretty well in general. The only account giving me some trouble is Yahoo, which I suspect has some quirks, which occasionally cause the messages to be downloaded again and duplicated. Thankfully it’s easily fixed because Claws also has a feature to delete duplicates.\n
    \n
    This approach is different from IMAP, which would maintain a local offline cache of the live inbox, but you wouldn’t be able to only keep local messages — any change in one side would be reflected in both.\n
    \n
    However, Claws allows you to do both. You can have both a POP3 and an IMAP account connected to the same live box use the POP3 for offline archival, and the IMAP for when you want to put something back on the server, or if you need to look at other folders on the server besides inbox (POP3 cab only see the inbox, not trash, sent etc.)\n
    \n
    Normally I only do folders locally on the PC, on the mailbox connected with POP3, so none of the organization is reflected on the live mailbox, which is inbox only. Every once in a while I connect via IMAP to recover emails from the sent folder, which I’ve sent with webmail or from mobile (using IMAP on mobile too).\n
    \n
    If this doesn’t fit your workflow turn there are lots of IMAP syncing tools like you’ve noticed. IMAPsync is pretty good.\n
    \n
    The last step for my workflow would be to self host an IMAP server that will index the POP3 mailbox, and expose it read-only (without SMTP) through a webmail app, for archival and search only. I may have to look at Piler. The quirk here is that the Claws mailbox format is *slightly* different from IMAP, it’s very similar to mbox but not identical, will have to see if any IMAP server will accept it.\n
    \n
    Thunderbird is no go unfortunately, its main box format is to keep all messages on one big file instead of individual files, which complicates things a lot.
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 1
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1700277723 {#1407
    date: 2023-11-18 04:22:03.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@crank@beehaw.org"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2369 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2392 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2395 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1384 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1383 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1405 …}
  -id: 135856
  -bodyTs: "'10':37,55 'abl':134 'accept':376 'account':74,166 'allow':15,152 'also':105 'app':331 'approach':113 'archiv':178,333 'back':189 'besid':205 'big':394 'box':172,385 'cab':208 'cach':124 'caus':89 'chang':141 'claw':6,104,151,350 'complic':401 'configur':27 'connect':167,229,253 'day':38,56 'delet':21,110 'differ':115,355 'doesn':279 'download':94 'duplic':97,111 'easili':101 'email':258 'etc':216 'everi':247 'exampl':40 'exist':44,62 'expos':321 'featur':108 'file':395,399 'fit':281 'fix':102 'folder':201,221,262 'format':352,386 'general':71 'give':75 'go':381 'good':299 'host':310 'howev':150 'ident':366 'imap':117,165,181,255,273,289,312,357,373 'imapsync':296 'inbox':128,206,212,245 'index':316 'individu':398 'instead':396 'keep':137,389 'last':301 'like':292 'live':127,171,241 'local':46,122,138,222 'look':198,341 'lot':287,404 'mail':7 'mailbox':228,242,319,351 'main':384 'maintain':120 'may':338 'mbox':363 'messag':17,42,91,139,391 'mobil':271,275 'need':196 'none':233 'normal':217 'notic':295 'occasion':88 'offlin':123,177 'one':143,393 'option':13 'organ':236 'pc':49,65,225 'period':28 'piler':343 'pop3':9,162,175,207,231,318 'pretti':68,298 'put':187 'quirk':86,345 'read':324 'read-on':323 'recov':257 'reflect':147,238 'search':335 'see':210,370 'self':309 'sent':215,261,266 'server':24,53,192,204,313,374 'set':34 'side':144 'similar':361 'slight':354 'smtp':327 'someth':188 'step':302 'suspect':83 'sync':290 'thank':98 'thing':402 'thunderbird':378 'time':30 'tool':291 'trash':214 'troubl':78 'turn':284 'unfortun':382 'use':5,173,272 've':265,294 'via':254 'want':185 'webmail':268,330 'well':69 'without':326 'work':67 'workflow':283,305 'would':119,145,306 'wouldn':131 'yahoo':80"
  +ranking: 0
  +commentCount: 0
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://feddit.nl/comment/4672982"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700277723 {#1883
    date: 2023-11-18 04:22:03.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 135856
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
61 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
62 DENIED moderate 
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2029
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  +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
  +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
  +url: null
  +body: """
    Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
    \n
    This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
    \n
    Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
    \n
    ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
    \n
    - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
    - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
    - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
    - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
    \n
    …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
    \n
    - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
    \n
    In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
    \n
    - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
    \n
    As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
    \n
    Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
    \n
    And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
    \n
    - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
    \n
    As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
    \n
    Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
    \n
    - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
    - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
    - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
    - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
    - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
    - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
    \n
    Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
    \n
    - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
    - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
    \n
    Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
    \n
    - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
    - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
    - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
    - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
    - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
    \n
    Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
    \n
    DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
    \n
    Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
    \n
    As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
    \n
    - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
    - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
    - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
    \n
    Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
    \n
    - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
    - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
    - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
    - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
    - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
    - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
    - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
    - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
    - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
    - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
    - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
    - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
    \n
    And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
    """
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      +body: """
        You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
        \n
        Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
        """
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      +body: """
        I’m glad Wayland solves problems for you, but it creates them for others.\n
        \n
        Imagine being forced to go the other way. Could you be coerced into going back to Xorg? What would you do if a distro attempted to do that to you?
        """
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      +body: """
        “Linux” is not an entity with well defined goals, it’s a community that mostly does whatever it wants. That has the fortunate side effect of producing labors of love in software, that prove really useful in the real world. But it also ignores things like user experience, which affect things like the desktop the most.\n
        \n
        On Linux the user is a second-class citizen, because worth in the community is determined by how much a person contributes (in code, testing, artwork, documentation etc.)\n
        \n
        The Linux mindset is best expressed by a quote from Simon Travaglia (which I paraphrase because I don’t remember it verbatim): “We’re tasked with the well-being of the servers, not the users. They’re lucky we even let them log in since users technically *upset* the smooth operation of the servers.”
        """
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        "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
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      +body: """
        > You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
        \n
        All I see is a rift in the community over one side pushing software that’s beta-quality at best, and acting very arrogant and dismissive towards real adoption impediments.\n
        \n
        Which is par for the course for Linux, naturally, but “it’s happening” is wishful thinking at this stage. At this rate and with this attitude it will take at least another 5 years.\n
        \n
        Wayland’s worst enemy is its own fans.
        """
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      +body: """
        They aren’t facts, again, they’re wishful thinking. I’m a long time contributor and developer and I can assure you that with things as complex as X and Wayland things would move slowly even if everybody was of the same mind, let alone in the “herding cats” style of FOSS.\n
        \n
        Wayland has been in development for 15 years and it’s still not ready – please, it’s not, and stomping our feet and claiming otherwise won’t make it so. Another 5 years will probably see it reach a more stable state.\n
        \n
        What do I mean by ready? Well the desktop stack [on Linux and *NIX] is extremely complex. Whenever you’re dealing with something extremely complex in software, over the years, you amass a large amount of solutions that solve real world problems. That’s what I call “ready”. Most of those solutions will be dealing with quirks and use cases which do not affect everybody equally, but they’re each crucial in their own way to a varying slice of the userbase.\n
        \n
        Whenever you rewrite something from scratch you throw away the bulk of those quirks. It’s a common fallacy for developers to look at the shiny new thing and think that it’s better. In reality it’s worthless without the quirks, and accumulating those quirks all over again takes a long time. X has been accumulating them for 40 years. Wayland is barely scratching the surface.\n
        \n
        The fact the protocol places and splits the burden over the various DE and WM teams will NOT help. We will need libraries that solve the same problem once instead of over and over, and most DE/WM will come to depend on those libraries. The end result will be eerily similar to X. Ironically, by the time Wayland will be done it will have spent a comparable time in development to X, and will have accumulated the same amount of baggage that people dislike about X.\n
        \n
        > What percentage of the Linux Desktop universe are you expecting will still be using X at the end of 2025?\n
        \n
        More or less the same that’s using X right now. GNOME, KDE and the various distros will get a bloody nose trying to force Wayland through but if that’s the only way they learn, so be it.\n
        \n
        The Steam Deck actually has one of the few use cases where Wayland actually makes sense, it’s a turnkey, highly controlled stack (both software and hardware) where users don’t have any reasons to care about what’s under the hood. I expect them to switch ASAP.\n
        \n
        Another place where Wayland can be used straightaway is the desktop graphical login screen (which is the original reason it was created for anyway). It’s a singular application with reduced requirements and simplistic interactions.
        """
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        date: 2023-11-20 09:43:35.0 +01:00
      }
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    0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2296
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      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2029 …2}
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      +body: """
        > but why should AMD, Intel and NVIDIA care about Linux desktop\n
        \n
        They care because it’s free testing for their more lucrative Linux-based products. We’re their lab rats.
        """
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Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2029
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2981 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
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  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2938 …}
  +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
  +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
  +url: null
  +body: """
    Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
    \n
    This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
    \n
    Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
    \n
    ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
    \n
    - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
    - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
    - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
    - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
    \n
    …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
    \n
    - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
    \n
    In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
    \n
    - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
    \n
    As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
    \n
    Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
    \n
    And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
    \n
    - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
    \n
    As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
    \n
    Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
    \n
    - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
    - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
    - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
    - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
    - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
    - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
    \n
    Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
    \n
    - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
    - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
    \n
    Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
    \n
    - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
    - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
    - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
    - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
    - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
    \n
    Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
    \n
    DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
    \n
    Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
    \n
    As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
    \n
    - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
    - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
    - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
    \n
    Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
    \n
    - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
    - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
    - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
    - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
    - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
    - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
    - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
    - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
    - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
    - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
    - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
    - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
    \n
    And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
    """
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      +body: """
        You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
        \n
        Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
        """
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        date: 2023-11-19 03:09:37.0 +01:00
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    4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2083
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      +body: """
        I’m glad Wayland solves problems for you, but it creates them for others.\n
        \n
        Imagine being forced to go the other way. Could you be coerced into going back to Xorg? What would you do if a distro attempted to do that to you?
        """
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    3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2086
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      +body: """
        “Linux” is not an entity with well defined goals, it’s a community that mostly does whatever it wants. That has the fortunate side effect of producing labors of love in software, that prove really useful in the real world. But it also ignores things like user experience, which affect things like the desktop the most.\n
        \n
        On Linux the user is a second-class citizen, because worth in the community is determined by how much a person contributes (in code, testing, artwork, documentation etc.)\n
        \n
        The Linux mindset is best expressed by a quote from Simon Travaglia (which I paraphrase because I don’t remember it verbatim): “We’re tasked with the well-being of the servers, not the users. They’re lucky we even let them log in since users technically *upset* the smooth operation of the servers.”
        """
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        "@LeFantome@programming.dev"
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        > You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
        \n
        All I see is a rift in the community over one side pushing software that’s beta-quality at best, and acting very arrogant and dismissive towards real adoption impediments.\n
        \n
        Which is par for the course for Linux, naturally, but “it’s happening” is wishful thinking at this stage. At this rate and with this attitude it will take at least another 5 years.\n
        \n
        Wayland’s worst enemy is its own fans.
        """
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    1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2338
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      +body: """
        They aren’t facts, again, they’re wishful thinking. I’m a long time contributor and developer and I can assure you that with things as complex as X and Wayland things would move slowly even if everybody was of the same mind, let alone in the “herding cats” style of FOSS.\n
        \n
        Wayland has been in development for 15 years and it’s still not ready – please, it’s not, and stomping our feet and claiming otherwise won’t make it so. Another 5 years will probably see it reach a more stable state.\n
        \n
        What do I mean by ready? Well the desktop stack [on Linux and *NIX] is extremely complex. Whenever you’re dealing with something extremely complex in software, over the years, you amass a large amount of solutions that solve real world problems. That’s what I call “ready”. Most of those solutions will be dealing with quirks and use cases which do not affect everybody equally, but they’re each crucial in their own way to a varying slice of the userbase.\n
        \n
        Whenever you rewrite something from scratch you throw away the bulk of those quirks. It’s a common fallacy for developers to look at the shiny new thing and think that it’s better. In reality it’s worthless without the quirks, and accumulating those quirks all over again takes a long time. X has been accumulating them for 40 years. Wayland is barely scratching the surface.\n
        \n
        The fact the protocol places and splits the burden over the various DE and WM teams will NOT help. We will need libraries that solve the same problem once instead of over and over, and most DE/WM will come to depend on those libraries. The end result will be eerily similar to X. Ironically, by the time Wayland will be done it will have spent a comparable time in development to X, and will have accumulated the same amount of baggage that people dislike about X.\n
        \n
        > What percentage of the Linux Desktop universe are you expecting will still be using X at the end of 2025?\n
        \n
        More or less the same that’s using X right now. GNOME, KDE and the various distros will get a bloody nose trying to force Wayland through but if that’s the only way they learn, so be it.\n
        \n
        The Steam Deck actually has one of the few use cases where Wayland actually makes sense, it’s a turnkey, highly controlled stack (both software and hardware) where users don’t have any reasons to care about what’s under the hood. I expect them to switch ASAP.\n
        \n
        Another place where Wayland can be used straightaway is the desktop graphical login screen (which is the original reason it was created for anyway). It’s a singular application with reduced requirements and simplistic interactions.
        """
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    0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2296
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      +body: """
        > but why should AMD, Intel and NVIDIA care about Linux desktop\n
        \n
        They care because it’s free testing for their more lucrative Linux-based products. We’re their lab rats.
        """
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64 DENIED moderate 
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2029
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  +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
  +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
  +url: null
  +body: """
    Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
    \n
    This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
    \n
    Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
    \n
    ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
    \n
    - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
    - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
    - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
    - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
    \n
    …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
    \n
    - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
    \n
    In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
    \n
    - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
    \n
    As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
    \n
    Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
    \n
    And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
    \n
    - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
    \n
    As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
    \n
    Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
    \n
    - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
    - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
    - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
    - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
    - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
    - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
    \n
    Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
    \n
    - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
    - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
    \n
    Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
    \n
    - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
    - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
    - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
    - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
    - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
    \n
    Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
    \n
    DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
    \n
    Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
    \n
    As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
    \n
    - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
    - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
    - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
    \n
    Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
    \n
    - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
    - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
    - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
    - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
    - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
    - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
    - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
    - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
    - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
    - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
    - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
    - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
    \n
    And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
    """
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    date: 2024-02-17 22:16:50.0 +01:00
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    5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2028
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      +body: """
        You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
        \n
        Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
        """
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        date: 2023-11-19 03:09:37.0 +01:00
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    4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2083
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      +body: """
        I’m glad Wayland solves problems for you, but it creates them for others.\n
        \n
        Imagine being forced to go the other way. Could you be coerced into going back to Xorg? What would you do if a distro attempted to do that to you?
        """
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        date: 2023-11-19 22:21:07.0 +01:00
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    3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2086
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      +body: """
        “Linux” is not an entity with well defined goals, it’s a community that mostly does whatever it wants. That has the fortunate side effect of producing labors of love in software, that prove really useful in the real world. But it also ignores things like user experience, which affect things like the desktop the most.\n
        \n
        On Linux the user is a second-class citizen, because worth in the community is determined by how much a person contributes (in code, testing, artwork, documentation etc.)\n
        \n
        The Linux mindset is best expressed by a quote from Simon Travaglia (which I paraphrase because I don’t remember it verbatim): “We’re tasked with the well-being of the servers, not the users. They’re lucky we even let them log in since users technically *upset* the smooth operation of the servers.”
        """
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        "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
        "@michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
        "@LeFantome@programming.dev"
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        date: 2023-11-19 22:36:06.0 +01:00
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    2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2330
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      +body: """
        > You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
        \n
        All I see is a rift in the community over one side pushing software that’s beta-quality at best, and acting very arrogant and dismissive towards real adoption impediments.\n
        \n
        Which is par for the course for Linux, naturally, but “it’s happening” is wishful thinking at this stage. At this rate and with this attitude it will take at least another 5 years.\n
        \n
        Wayland’s worst enemy is its own fans.
        """
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        "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
        "@LeFantome@programming.dev"
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    1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2338
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      +body: """
        They aren’t facts, again, they’re wishful thinking. I’m a long time contributor and developer and I can assure you that with things as complex as X and Wayland things would move slowly even if everybody was of the same mind, let alone in the “herding cats” style of FOSS.\n
        \n
        Wayland has been in development for 15 years and it’s still not ready – please, it’s not, and stomping our feet and claiming otherwise won’t make it so. Another 5 years will probably see it reach a more stable state.\n
        \n
        What do I mean by ready? Well the desktop stack [on Linux and *NIX] is extremely complex. Whenever you’re dealing with something extremely complex in software, over the years, you amass a large amount of solutions that solve real world problems. That’s what I call “ready”. Most of those solutions will be dealing with quirks and use cases which do not affect everybody equally, but they’re each crucial in their own way to a varying slice of the userbase.\n
        \n
        Whenever you rewrite something from scratch you throw away the bulk of those quirks. It’s a common fallacy for developers to look at the shiny new thing and think that it’s better. In reality it’s worthless without the quirks, and accumulating those quirks all over again takes a long time. X has been accumulating them for 40 years. Wayland is barely scratching the surface.\n
        \n
        The fact the protocol places and splits the burden over the various DE and WM teams will NOT help. We will need libraries that solve the same problem once instead of over and over, and most DE/WM will come to depend on those libraries. The end result will be eerily similar to X. Ironically, by the time Wayland will be done it will have spent a comparable time in development to X, and will have accumulated the same amount of baggage that people dislike about X.\n
        \n
        > What percentage of the Linux Desktop universe are you expecting will still be using X at the end of 2025?\n
        \n
        More or less the same that’s using X right now. GNOME, KDE and the various distros will get a bloody nose trying to force Wayland through but if that’s the only way they learn, so be it.\n
        \n
        The Steam Deck actually has one of the few use cases where Wayland actually makes sense, it’s a turnkey, highly controlled stack (both software and hardware) where users don’t have any reasons to care about what’s under the hood. I expect them to switch ASAP.\n
        \n
        Another place where Wayland can be used straightaway is the desktop graphical login screen (which is the original reason it was created for anyway). It’s a singular application with reduced requirements and simplistic interactions.
        """
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    0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2296
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      +body: """
        > but why should AMD, Intel and NVIDIA care about Linux desktop\n
        \n
        They care because it’s free testing for their more lucrative Linux-based products. We’re their lab rats.
        """
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#2028
  +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2029
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2981 …}
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    +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
    +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
    +url: null
    +body: """
      Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
      \n
      This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
      \n
      Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
      \n
      ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
      \n
      - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
      - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
      - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
      - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
      \n
      …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
      \n
      In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
      \n
      As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
      \n
      Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
      \n
      And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
      \n
      As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
      \n
      Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
      - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
      - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
      - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
      - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
      - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
      \n
      Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
      - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
      \n
      Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
      - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
      - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
      - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
      - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
      \n
      Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
      \n
      DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
      \n
      Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
      \n
      As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
      - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
      - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
      \n
      Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
      - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
      - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
      - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
      - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
      - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
      - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
      - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
      - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
      - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
      - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
      - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
      \n
      And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
      """
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      date: 2024-02-17 22:16:50.0 +01:00
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      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2028}
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2083
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          I’m glad Wayland solves problems for you, but it creates them for others.\n
          \n
          Imagine being forced to go the other way. Could you be coerced into going back to Xorg? What would you do if a distro attempted to do that to you?
          """
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2086
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        +body: """
          “Linux” is not an entity with well defined goals, it’s a community that mostly does whatever it wants. That has the fortunate side effect of producing labors of love in software, that prove really useful in the real world. But it also ignores things like user experience, which affect things like the desktop the most.\n
          \n
          On Linux the user is a second-class citizen, because worth in the community is determined by how much a person contributes (in code, testing, artwork, documentation etc.)\n
          \n
          The Linux mindset is best expressed by a quote from Simon Travaglia (which I paraphrase because I don’t remember it verbatim): “We’re tasked with the well-being of the servers, not the users. They’re lucky we even let them log in since users technically *upset* the smooth operation of the servers.”
          """
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          "@LeFantome@programming.dev"
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        +body: """
          > You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
          \n
          All I see is a rift in the community over one side pushing software that’s beta-quality at best, and acting very arrogant and dismissive towards real adoption impediments.\n
          \n
          Which is par for the course for Linux, naturally, but “it’s happening” is wishful thinking at this stage. At this rate and with this attitude it will take at least another 5 years.\n
          \n
          Wayland’s worst enemy is its own fans.
          """
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2338
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        +body: """
          They aren’t facts, again, they’re wishful thinking. I’m a long time contributor and developer and I can assure you that with things as complex as X and Wayland things would move slowly even if everybody was of the same mind, let alone in the “herding cats” style of FOSS.\n
          \n
          Wayland has been in development for 15 years and it’s still not ready – please, it’s not, and stomping our feet and claiming otherwise won’t make it so. Another 5 years will probably see it reach a more stable state.\n
          \n
          What do I mean by ready? Well the desktop stack [on Linux and *NIX] is extremely complex. Whenever you’re dealing with something extremely complex in software, over the years, you amass a large amount of solutions that solve real world problems. That’s what I call “ready”. Most of those solutions will be dealing with quirks and use cases which do not affect everybody equally, but they’re each crucial in their own way to a varying slice of the userbase.\n
          \n
          Whenever you rewrite something from scratch you throw away the bulk of those quirks. It’s a common fallacy for developers to look at the shiny new thing and think that it’s better. In reality it’s worthless without the quirks, and accumulating those quirks all over again takes a long time. X has been accumulating them for 40 years. Wayland is barely scratching the surface.\n
          \n
          The fact the protocol places and splits the burden over the various DE and WM teams will NOT help. We will need libraries that solve the same problem once instead of over and over, and most DE/WM will come to depend on those libraries. The end result will be eerily similar to X. Ironically, by the time Wayland will be done it will have spent a comparable time in development to X, and will have accumulated the same amount of baggage that people dislike about X.\n
          \n
          > What percentage of the Linux Desktop universe are you expecting will still be using X at the end of 2025?\n
          \n
          More or less the same that’s using X right now. GNOME, KDE and the various distros will get a bloody nose trying to force Wayland through but if that’s the only way they learn, so be it.\n
          \n
          The Steam Deck actually has one of the few use cases where Wayland actually makes sense, it’s a turnkey, highly controlled stack (both software and hardware) where users don’t have any reasons to care about what’s under the hood. I expect them to switch ASAP.\n
          \n
          Another place where Wayland can be used straightaway is the desktop graphical login screen (which is the original reason it was created for anyway). It’s a singular application with reduced requirements and simplistic interactions.
          """
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2296
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        +body: """
          > but why should AMD, Intel and NVIDIA care about Linux desktop\n
          \n
          They care because it’s free testing for their more lucrative Linux-based products. We’re their lab rats.
          """
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  +body: """
    You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
    \n
    Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
    """
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67 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2028
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    +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
    +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
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    +body: """
      Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
      \n
      This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
      \n
      Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
      \n
      ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
      \n
      - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
      - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
      - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
      - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
      \n
      …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
      \n
      In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
      \n
      As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
      \n
      Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
      \n
      And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
      \n
      As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
      \n
      Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
      - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
      - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
      - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
      - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
      - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
      \n
      Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
      - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
      \n
      Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
      - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
      - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
      - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
      - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
      \n
      Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
      \n
      DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
      \n
      Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
      \n
      As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
      - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
      - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
      \n
      Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
      - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
      - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
      - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
      - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
      - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
      - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
      - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
      - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
      - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
      - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
      - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
      \n
      And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
      """
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      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2028}
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2083
        +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2029 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2082 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2020 …}
        +body: """
          I’m glad Wayland solves problems for you, but it creates them for others.\n
          \n
          Imagine being forced to go the other way. Could you be coerced into going back to Xorg? What would you do if a distro attempted to do that to you?
          """
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        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-11-19 22:21:07.0 +01:00
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          "@theshatterstone54@feddit.uk"
          "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
          "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
          "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
        ]
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        -id: 140989
        -bodyTs: "'attempt':39 'back':29 'coerc':26 'could':23 'creat':11 'distro':38 'forc':17 'glad':3 'go':19,28 'imagin':15 'm':2 'other':14 'problem':6 'solv':5 'way':22 'wayland':4 'would':33 'xorg':31"
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          date: 2023-11-19 22:21:07.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 140989
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2086
        +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2029 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2090 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2020 …}
        +body: """
          “Linux” is not an entity with well defined goals, it’s a community that mostly does whatever it wants. That has the fortunate side effect of producing labors of love in software, that prove really useful in the real world. But it also ignores things like user experience, which affect things like the desktop the most.\n
          \n
          On Linux the user is a second-class citizen, because worth in the community is determined by how much a person contributes (in code, testing, artwork, documentation etc.)\n
          \n
          The Linux mindset is best expressed by a quote from Simon Travaglia (which I paraphrase because I don’t remember it verbatim): “We’re tasked with the well-being of the servers, not the users. They’re lucky we even let them log in since users technically *upset* the smooth operation of the servers.”
          """
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          "@theshatterstone54@feddit.uk"
          "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
          "@michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
          "@LeFantome@programming.dev"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2093 …}
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700429766 {#2091
          date: 2023-11-19 22:36:06.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 141024
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2330
        +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2029 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2348 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2020 …}
        +body: """
          > You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
          \n
          All I see is a rift in the community over one side pushing software that’s beta-quality at best, and acting very arrogant and dismissive towards real adoption impediments.\n
          \n
          Which is par for the course for Linux, naturally, but “it’s happening” is wishful thinking at this stage. At this rate and with this attitude it will take at least another 5 years.\n
          \n
          Wayland’s worst enemy is its own fans.
          """
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          "@theshatterstone54@feddit.uk"
          "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
          "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
          "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
          "@LeFantome@programming.dev"
        ]
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          date: 2023-11-19 22:48:05.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 141068
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2338
        +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2029 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2159 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2020 …}
        +body: """
          They aren’t facts, again, they’re wishful thinking. I’m a long time contributor and developer and I can assure you that with things as complex as X and Wayland things would move slowly even if everybody was of the same mind, let alone in the “herding cats” style of FOSS.\n
          \n
          Wayland has been in development for 15 years and it’s still not ready – please, it’s not, and stomping our feet and claiming otherwise won’t make it so. Another 5 years will probably see it reach a more stable state.\n
          \n
          What do I mean by ready? Well the desktop stack [on Linux and *NIX] is extremely complex. Whenever you’re dealing with something extremely complex in software, over the years, you amass a large amount of solutions that solve real world problems. That’s what I call “ready”. Most of those solutions will be dealing with quirks and use cases which do not affect everybody equally, but they’re each crucial in their own way to a varying slice of the userbase.\n
          \n
          Whenever you rewrite something from scratch you throw away the bulk of those quirks. It’s a common fallacy for developers to look at the shiny new thing and think that it’s better. In reality it’s worthless without the quirks, and accumulating those quirks all over again takes a long time. X has been accumulating them for 40 years. Wayland is barely scratching the surface.\n
          \n
          The fact the protocol places and splits the burden over the various DE and WM teams will NOT help. We will need libraries that solve the same problem once instead of over and over, and most DE/WM will come to depend on those libraries. The end result will be eerily similar to X. Ironically, by the time Wayland will be done it will have spent a comparable time in development to X, and will have accumulated the same amount of baggage that people dislike about X.\n
          \n
          > What percentage of the Linux Desktop universe are you expecting will still be using X at the end of 2025?\n
          \n
          More or less the same that’s using X right now. GNOME, KDE and the various distros will get a bloody nose trying to force Wayland through but if that’s the only way they learn, so be it.\n
          \n
          The Steam Deck actually has one of the few use cases where Wayland actually makes sense, it’s a turnkey, highly controlled stack (both software and hardware) where users don’t have any reasons to care about what’s under the hood. I expect them to switch ASAP.\n
          \n
          Another place where Wayland can be used straightaway is the desktop graphical login screen (which is the original reason it was created for anyway). It’s a singular application with reduced requirements and simplistic interactions.
          """
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          "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
          "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
          "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
          "@LeFantome@programming.dev"
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          date: 2023-11-20 09:43:35.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 142343
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2296
        +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2029 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2295 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2020 …}
        +body: """
          > but why should AMD, Intel and NVIDIA care about Linux desktop\n
          \n
          They care because it’s free testing for their more lucrative Linux-based products. We’re their lab rats.
          """
        +lang: "en"
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          "@theshatterstone54@feddit.uk"
          "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
          "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
          "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2281 …}
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        -id: 143393
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  +body: """
    You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
    \n
    Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
    """
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68 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2028
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    +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
    +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
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    +body: """
      Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
      \n
      This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
      \n
      Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
      \n
      ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
      \n
      - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
      - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
      - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
      - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
      \n
      …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
      \n
      In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
      \n
      As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
      \n
      Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
      \n
      And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
      \n
      As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
      \n
      Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
      - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
      - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
      - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
      - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
      - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
      \n
      Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
      - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
      \n
      Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
      - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
      - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
      - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
      - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
      \n
      Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
      \n
      DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
      \n
      Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
      \n
      As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
      - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
      - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
      \n
      Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
      - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
      - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
      - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
      - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
      - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
      - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
      - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
      - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
      - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
      - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
      - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
      \n
      And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
      """
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      date: 2024-02-17 22:16:50.0 +01:00
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        +body: """
          I’m glad Wayland solves problems for you, but it creates them for others.\n
          \n
          Imagine being forced to go the other way. Could you be coerced into going back to Xorg? What would you do if a distro attempted to do that to you?
          """
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        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2085 …}
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        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2077 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2063 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2064 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2088 …}
        -id: 140989
        -bodyTs: "'attempt':39 'back':29 'coerc':26 'could':23 'creat':11 'distro':38 'forc':17 'glad':3 'go':19,28 'imagin':15 'm':2 'other':14 'problem':6 'solv':5 'way':22 'wayland':4 'would':33 'xorg':31"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://feddit.nl/comment/4715554"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700428867 {#2097
          date: 2023-11-19 22:21:07.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 140989
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2086
        +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2029 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2090 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2020 …}
        +body: """
          “Linux” is not an entity with well defined goals, it’s a community that mostly does whatever it wants. That has the fortunate side effect of producing labors of love in software, that prove really useful in the real world. But it also ignores things like user experience, which affect things like the desktop the most.\n
          \n
          On Linux the user is a second-class citizen, because worth in the community is determined by how much a person contributes (in code, testing, artwork, documentation etc.)\n
          \n
          The Linux mindset is best expressed by a quote from Simon Travaglia (which I paraphrase because I don’t remember it verbatim): “We’re tasked with the well-being of the servers, not the users. They’re lucky we even let them log in since users technically *upset* the smooth operation of the servers.”
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1700429766 {#2087
          date: 2023-11-19 22:36:06.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@theshatterstone54@feddit.uk"
          "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
          "@michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
          "@LeFantome@programming.dev"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2093 …}
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        -id: 141024
        -bodyTs: "'affect':50 'also':43 'artwork':83 'best':90 'citizen':66 'class':65 'code':81 'communiti':13,71 'contribut':79 'defin':8 'desktop':54 'determin':73 'document':84 'effect':25 'entiti':5 'etc':85 'even':126 'experi':48 'express':91 'fortun':23 'goal':9 'ignor':44 'labor':28 'let':127 'like':46,52 'linux':1,58,87 'log':129 'love':30 'lucki':124 'mindset':88 'most':15 'much':76 'oper':137 'paraphras':100 'person':78 'produc':27 'prove':34 'quot':94 're':109,123 'real':39 'realli':35 'rememb':105 'second':64 'second-class':63 'server':118,140 'side':24 'simon':96 'sinc':131 'smooth':136 'softwar':32 'task':110 'technic':133 'test':82 'thing':45,51 'travaglia':97 'upset':134 'use':36 'user':47,60,121,132 'verbatim':107 'want':19 'well':7,114 'well-b':113 'whatev':17 'world':40 'worth':68"
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        +apId: "https://feddit.nl/comment/4715830"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700429766 {#2091
          date: 2023-11-19 22:36:06.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 141024
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2330
        +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2029 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2348 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2020 …}
        +body: """
          > You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
          \n
          All I see is a rift in the community over one side pushing software that’s beta-quality at best, and acting very arrogant and dismissive towards real adoption impediments.\n
          \n
          Which is par for the course for Linux, naturally, but “it’s happening” is wishful thinking at this stage. At this rate and with this attitude it will take at least another 5 years.\n
          \n
          Wayland’s worst enemy is its own fans.
          """
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        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
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          date: 2023-11-19 22:48:05.0 +01:00
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          "@theshatterstone54@feddit.uk"
          "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
          "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
          "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
          "@LeFantome@programming.dev"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2346 …}
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        -id: 141068
        -bodyTs: "'5':74 'act':33 'adopt':40 'anoth':73 'arrog':35 'attitud':67 'best':31 'beta':28 'beta-qu':27 'communiti':19 'cours':47 'dismiss':37 'enemi':79 'fan':83 'forgot':2 'happen':10,54 'impedi':41 'least':72 'linux':49 'natur':50 'one':21 'par':44 'part':4 'push':23 'qualiti':29 'rate':63 'real':39 'rift':16 'see':13 'side':22 'softwar':24 'stage':60 'take':70 'think':57 'toward':38 'wayland':76 'wish':56 'worst':78 'year':75"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700430485 {#2350
          date: 2023-11-19 22:48:05.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 141068
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2338
        +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2029 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2159 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2020 …}
        +body: """
          They aren’t facts, again, they’re wishful thinking. I’m a long time contributor and developer and I can assure you that with things as complex as X and Wayland things would move slowly even if everybody was of the same mind, let alone in the “herding cats” style of FOSS.\n
          \n
          Wayland has been in development for 15 years and it’s still not ready – please, it’s not, and stomping our feet and claiming otherwise won’t make it so. Another 5 years will probably see it reach a more stable state.\n
          \n
          What do I mean by ready? Well the desktop stack [on Linux and *NIX] is extremely complex. Whenever you’re dealing with something extremely complex in software, over the years, you amass a large amount of solutions that solve real world problems. That’s what I call “ready”. Most of those solutions will be dealing with quirks and use cases which do not affect everybody equally, but they’re each crucial in their own way to a varying slice of the userbase.\n
          \n
          Whenever you rewrite something from scratch you throw away the bulk of those quirks. It’s a common fallacy for developers to look at the shiny new thing and think that it’s better. In reality it’s worthless without the quirks, and accumulating those quirks all over again takes a long time. X has been accumulating them for 40 years. Wayland is barely scratching the surface.\n
          \n
          The fact the protocol places and splits the burden over the various DE and WM teams will NOT help. We will need libraries that solve the same problem once instead of over and over, and most DE/WM will come to depend on those libraries. The end result will be eerily similar to X. Ironically, by the time Wayland will be done it will have spent a comparable time in development to X, and will have accumulated the same amount of baggage that people dislike about X.\n
          \n
          > What percentage of the Linux Desktop universe are you expecting will still be using X at the end of 2025?\n
          \n
          More or less the same that’s using X right now. GNOME, KDE and the various distros will get a bloody nose trying to force Wayland through but if that’s the only way they learn, so be it.\n
          \n
          The Steam Deck actually has one of the few use cases where Wayland actually makes sense, it’s a turnkey, highly controlled stack (both software and hardware) where users don’t have any reasons to care about what’s under the hood. I expect them to switch ASAP.\n
          \n
          Another place where Wayland can be used straightaway is the desktop graphical login screen (which is the original reason it was created for anyway). It’s a singular application with reduced requirements and simplistic interactions.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-11-20 09:43:35.0 +01:00
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          "@theshatterstone54@feddit.uk"
          "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
          "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
          "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
          "@LeFantome@programming.dev"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2143 …}
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        -id: 142343
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700469815 {#2339
          date: 2023-11-20 09:43:35.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 142343
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2296
        +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2029 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2295 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2020 …}
        +body: """
          > but why should AMD, Intel and NVIDIA care about Linux desktop\n
          \n
          They care because it’s free testing for their more lucrative Linux-based products. We’re their lab rats.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
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          date: 2023-11-20 18:36:50.0 +01:00
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        +mentions: [
          "@theshatterstone54@feddit.uk"
          "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
          "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
          "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2281 …}
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        -id: 143393
        -bodyTs: "'amd':4 'base':25 'care':8,13 'desktop':11 'free':17 'intel':5 'lab':30 'linux':10,24 'linux-bas':23 'lucrat':22 'nvidia':7 'product':26 'rat':31 're':28 'test':18"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-11-20 18:36:50.0 +01:00
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    ]
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  +body: """
    You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
    \n
    Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
    """
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#2083
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    +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
    +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
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    +body: """
      Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
      \n
      This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
      \n
      Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
      \n
      ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
      \n
      - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
      - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
      - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
      - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
      \n
      …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
      \n
      In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
      \n
      As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
      \n
      Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
      \n
      And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
      \n
      As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
      \n
      Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
      - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
      - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
      - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
      - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
      - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
      \n
      Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
      - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
      \n
      Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
      - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
      - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
      - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
      - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
      \n
      Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
      \n
      DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
      \n
      Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
      \n
      As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
      - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
      - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
      \n
      Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
      - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
      - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
      - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
      - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
      - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
      - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
      - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
      - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
      - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
      - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
      - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
      \n
      And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
      """
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        +body: """
          You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
          \n
          Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
          """
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        -id: 138758
        -bodyTs: "'adopt':44 'better':36 'come':40 'everyth':16 'featur':14 'fine':18 'forc':43 'forgot':2 'happen':28 'let':26 'll':39 'make':47 'natur':29 'need':9 'part':4 'peopl':23,48 'push':22 'readi':34 'reduc':13 'resent':49 'stop':21 'toward':24 'tri':41 'wayland':10,25 'work':17 'xorg':20"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.nl/comment/4697578"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700359777 {#2021
          date: 2023-11-19 03:09:37.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 138758
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2083}
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2086
        +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2029 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2090 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2020 …}
        +body: """
          “Linux” is not an entity with well defined goals, it’s a community that mostly does whatever it wants. That has the fortunate side effect of producing labors of love in software, that prove really useful in the real world. But it also ignores things like user experience, which affect things like the desktop the most.\n
          \n
          On Linux the user is a second-class citizen, because worth in the community is determined by how much a person contributes (in code, testing, artwork, documentation etc.)\n
          \n
          The Linux mindset is best expressed by a quote from Simon Travaglia (which I paraphrase because I don’t remember it verbatim): “We’re tasked with the well-being of the servers, not the users. They’re lucky we even let them log in since users technically *upset* the smooth operation of the servers.”
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1700429766 {#2087
          date: 2023-11-19 22:36:06.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@theshatterstone54@feddit.uk"
          "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
          "@michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
          "@LeFantome@programming.dev"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2093 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2094 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2140 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2133 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2131 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2138 …}
        -id: 141024
        -bodyTs: "'affect':50 'also':43 'artwork':83 'best':90 'citizen':66 'class':65 'code':81 'communiti':13,71 'contribut':79 'defin':8 'desktop':54 'determin':73 'document':84 'effect':25 'entiti':5 'etc':85 'even':126 'experi':48 'express':91 'fortun':23 'goal':9 'ignor':44 'labor':28 'let':127 'like':46,52 'linux':1,58,87 'log':129 'love':30 'lucki':124 'mindset':88 'most':15 'much':76 'oper':137 'paraphras':100 'person':78 'produc':27 'prove':34 'quot':94 're':109,123 'real':39 'realli':35 'rememb':105 'second':64 'second-class':63 'server':118,140 'side':24 'simon':96 'sinc':131 'smooth':136 'softwar':32 'task':110 'technic':133 'test':82 'thing':45,51 'travaglia':97 'upset':134 'use':36 'user':47,60,121,132 'verbatim':107 'want':19 'well':7,114 'well-b':113 'whatev':17 'world':40 'worth':68"
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        +downVotes: 0
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        +apId: "https://feddit.nl/comment/4715830"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700429766 {#2091
          date: 2023-11-19 22:36:06.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 141024
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2330
        +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2029 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2348 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2020 …}
        +body: """
          > You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
          \n
          All I see is a rift in the community over one side pushing software that’s beta-quality at best, and acting very arrogant and dismissive towards real adoption impediments.\n
          \n
          Which is par for the course for Linux, naturally, but “it’s happening” is wishful thinking at this stage. At this rate and with this attitude it will take at least another 5 years.\n
          \n
          Wayland’s worst enemy is its own fans.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1700430485 {#2345
          date: 2023-11-19 22:48:05.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
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        +mentions: [
          "@theshatterstone54@feddit.uk"
          "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
          "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
          "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
          "@LeFantome@programming.dev"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2346 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2347 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2344 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2042 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2060 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2331 …}
        -id: 141068
        -bodyTs: "'5':74 'act':33 'adopt':40 'anoth':73 'arrog':35 'attitud':67 'best':31 'beta':28 'beta-qu':27 'communiti':19 'cours':47 'dismiss':37 'enemi':79 'fan':83 'forgot':2 'happen':10,54 'impedi':41 'least':72 'linux':49 'natur':50 'one':21 'par':44 'part':4 'push':23 'qualiti':29 'rate':63 'real':39 'rift':16 'see':13 'side':22 'softwar':24 'stage':60 'take':70 'think':57 'toward':38 'wayland':76 'wish':56 'worst':78 'year':75"
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        +apId: "https://feddit.nl/comment/4716085"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700430485 {#2350
          date: 2023-11-19 22:48:05.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 141068
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2338
        +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2029 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2159 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2020 …}
        +body: """
          They aren’t facts, again, they’re wishful thinking. I’m a long time contributor and developer and I can assure you that with things as complex as X and Wayland things would move slowly even if everybody was of the same mind, let alone in the “herding cats” style of FOSS.\n
          \n
          Wayland has been in development for 15 years and it’s still not ready – please, it’s not, and stomping our feet and claiming otherwise won’t make it so. Another 5 years will probably see it reach a more stable state.\n
          \n
          What do I mean by ready? Well the desktop stack [on Linux and *NIX] is extremely complex. Whenever you’re dealing with something extremely complex in software, over the years, you amass a large amount of solutions that solve real world problems. That’s what I call “ready”. Most of those solutions will be dealing with quirks and use cases which do not affect everybody equally, but they’re each crucial in their own way to a varying slice of the userbase.\n
          \n
          Whenever you rewrite something from scratch you throw away the bulk of those quirks. It’s a common fallacy for developers to look at the shiny new thing and think that it’s better. In reality it’s worthless without the quirks, and accumulating those quirks all over again takes a long time. X has been accumulating them for 40 years. Wayland is barely scratching the surface.\n
          \n
          The fact the protocol places and splits the burden over the various DE and WM teams will NOT help. We will need libraries that solve the same problem once instead of over and over, and most DE/WM will come to depend on those libraries. The end result will be eerily similar to X. Ironically, by the time Wayland will be done it will have spent a comparable time in development to X, and will have accumulated the same amount of baggage that people dislike about X.\n
          \n
          > What percentage of the Linux Desktop universe are you expecting will still be using X at the end of 2025?\n
          \n
          More or less the same that’s using X right now. GNOME, KDE and the various distros will get a bloody nose trying to force Wayland through but if that’s the only way they learn, so be it.\n
          \n
          The Steam Deck actually has one of the few use cases where Wayland actually makes sense, it’s a turnkey, highly controlled stack (both software and hardware) where users don’t have any reasons to care about what’s under the hood. I expect them to switch ASAP.\n
          \n
          Another place where Wayland can be used straightaway is the desktop graphical login screen (which is the original reason it was created for anyway). It’s a singular application with reduced requirements and simplistic interactions.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
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          date: 2023-11-20 09:43:35.0 +01:00
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        +ip: null
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          "@theshatterstone54@feddit.uk"
          "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
          "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
          "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
          "@LeFantome@programming.dev"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2143 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2136 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2073 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2072 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2065 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2066 …}
        -id: 142343
        -bodyTs: "'15':59 '2025':349 '40':236 '5':84 'accumul':220,233,319 'actual':392,402 'affect':158 'alon':45 'amass':126 'amount':129,322 'anoth':83,437 'anyway':460 'applic':465 'aren':2 'asap':436 'assur':21 'away':185 'baggag':324 'bare':240 'better':210 'bloodi':370 'bulk':187 'burden':252 'call':141 'care':424 'case':154,399 'cat':49 'claim':76 'come':282 'common':194 'compar':310 'complex':27,111,119 'contributor':15 'control':410 'creat':458 'crucial':165 'de':256 'de/wm':280 'deal':115,149 'deck':391 'depend':284 'desktop':103,335,447 'develop':17,57,197,313 'dislik':327 'distro':366 'done':304 'eerili':293 'end':289,347 'equal':160 'even':36 'everybodi':38,159 'expect':339,432 'extrem':110,118 'fact':4,245 'fallaci':195 'feet':74 'forc':374 'foss':52 'get':368 'gnome':361 'graphic':448 'hardwar':415 'help':262 'herd':48 'high':409 'hood':430 'instead':273 'interact':471 'iron':297 'kde':362 'larg':128 'learn':385 'less':352 'let':44 'librari':266,287 'linux':106,334 'login':449 'long':13,228 'look':199 'm':11 'make':80,403 'mean':98 'mind':43 'move':34 'need':265 'new':203 'nix':108 'nose':371 'one':394 'origin':454 'otherwis':77 'peopl':326 'percentag':331 'place':248,438 'pleas':67 'probabl':87 'problem':136,271 'protocol':247 'quirk':151,190,218,222 're':7,114,163 'reach':90 'readi':66,100,142 'real':134 'realiti':212 'reason':422,455 'reduc':467 'requir':468 'result':290 'rewrit':179 'right':359 'scratch':182,241 'screen':450 'see':88 'sens':404 'shini':202 'similar':294 'simplist':470 'singular':464 'slice':173 'slowli':35 'softwar':121,413 'solut':131,146 'solv':133,268 'someth':117,180 'spent':308 'split':250 'stabl':93 'stack':104,411 'state':94 'steam':390 'still':64,341 'stomp':72 'straightaway':444 'style':50 'surfac':243 'switch':435 'take':226 'team':259 'thing':25,32,204 'think':9,206 'throw':184 'time':14,229,300,311 'tri':372 'turnkey':408 'univers':336 'use':153,343,357,398,443 'user':417 'userbas':176 'vari':172 'various':255,365 'way':169,383 'wayland':31,53,238,301,375,401,440 'well':101 'whenev':112,177 'wish':8 'without':216 'wm':258 'won':78 'world':135 'worthless':215 'would':33 'x':29,230,296,315,329,344,358 'year':60,85,124,237"
        +ranking: 0
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        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.nl/comment/4726542"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700469815 {#2339
          date: 2023-11-20 09:43:35.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 142343
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2296
        +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2029 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2295 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2020 …}
        +body: """
          > but why should AMD, Intel and NVIDIA care about Linux desktop\n
          \n
          They care because it’s free testing for their more lucrative Linux-based products. We’re their lab rats.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1700501810 {#2294
          date: 2023-11-20 18:36:50.0 +01:00
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        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@theshatterstone54@feddit.uk"
          "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
          "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
          "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2281 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2280 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2278 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2279 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2277 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2220 …}
        -id: 143393
        -bodyTs: "'amd':4 'base':25 'care':8,13 'desktop':11 'free':17 'intel':5 'lab':30 'linux':10,24 'linux-bas':23 'lucrat':22 'nvidia':7 'product':26 'rat':31 're':28 'test':18"
        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
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          date: 2023-11-20 18:36:50.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 143393
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    ]
    -id: 13812
    -titleTs: "'articl':7 'boycott':5 'respons':2 'wayland':6"
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    I’m glad Wayland solves problems for you, but it creates them for others.\n
    \n
    Imagine being forced to go the other way. Could you be coerced into going back to Xorg? What would you do if a distro attempted to do that to you?
    """
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71 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2083
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    +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
    +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
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    +body: """
      Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
      \n
      This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
      \n
      Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
      \n
      ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
      \n
      - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
      - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
      - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
      - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
      \n
      …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
      \n
      In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
      \n
      As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
      \n
      Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
      \n
      And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
      \n
      As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
      \n
      Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
      - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
      - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
      - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
      - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
      - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
      \n
      Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
      - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
      \n
      Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
      - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
      - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
      - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
      - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
      \n
      Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
      \n
      DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
      \n
      Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
      \n
      As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
      - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
      - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
      \n
      Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
      - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
      - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
      - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
      - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
      - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
      - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
      - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
      - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
      - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
      - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
      - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
      \n
      And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
      """
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      date: 2024-02-17 22:16:50.0 +01:00
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          You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
          \n
          Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
          """
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2090 …}
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        +body: """
          “Linux” is not an entity with well defined goals, it’s a community that mostly does whatever it wants. That has the fortunate side effect of producing labors of love in software, that prove really useful in the real world. But it also ignores things like user experience, which affect things like the desktop the most.\n
          \n
          On Linux the user is a second-class citizen, because worth in the community is determined by how much a person contributes (in code, testing, artwork, documentation etc.)\n
          \n
          The Linux mindset is best expressed by a quote from Simon Travaglia (which I paraphrase because I don’t remember it verbatim): “We’re tasked with the well-being of the servers, not the users. They’re lucky we even let them log in since users technically *upset* the smooth operation of the servers.”
          """
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          date: 2023-11-19 22:36:06.0 +01:00
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          "@theshatterstone54@feddit.uk"
          "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
          "@michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
          "@LeFantome@programming.dev"
        ]
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        +apId: "https://feddit.nl/comment/4715830"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700429766 {#2091
          date: 2023-11-19 22:36:06.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 141024
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2330
        +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2029 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2348 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2020 …}
        +body: """
          > You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
          \n
          All I see is a rift in the community over one side pushing software that’s beta-quality at best, and acting very arrogant and dismissive towards real adoption impediments.\n
          \n
          Which is par for the course for Linux, naturally, but “it’s happening” is wishful thinking at this stage. At this rate and with this attitude it will take at least another 5 years.\n
          \n
          Wayland’s worst enemy is its own fans.
          """
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          "@theshatterstone54@feddit.uk"
          "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
          "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
          "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
          "@LeFantome@programming.dev"
        ]
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          date: 2023-11-19 22:48:05.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 141068
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2338
        +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2029 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2159 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2020 …}
        +body: """
          They aren’t facts, again, they’re wishful thinking. I’m a long time contributor and developer and I can assure you that with things as complex as X and Wayland things would move slowly even if everybody was of the same mind, let alone in the “herding cats” style of FOSS.\n
          \n
          Wayland has been in development for 15 years and it’s still not ready – please, it’s not, and stomping our feet and claiming otherwise won’t make it so. Another 5 years will probably see it reach a more stable state.\n
          \n
          What do I mean by ready? Well the desktop stack [on Linux and *NIX] is extremely complex. Whenever you’re dealing with something extremely complex in software, over the years, you amass a large amount of solutions that solve real world problems. That’s what I call “ready”. Most of those solutions will be dealing with quirks and use cases which do not affect everybody equally, but they’re each crucial in their own way to a varying slice of the userbase.\n
          \n
          Whenever you rewrite something from scratch you throw away the bulk of those quirks. It’s a common fallacy for developers to look at the shiny new thing and think that it’s better. In reality it’s worthless without the quirks, and accumulating those quirks all over again takes a long time. X has been accumulating them for 40 years. Wayland is barely scratching the surface.\n
          \n
          The fact the protocol places and splits the burden over the various DE and WM teams will NOT help. We will need libraries that solve the same problem once instead of over and over, and most DE/WM will come to depend on those libraries. The end result will be eerily similar to X. Ironically, by the time Wayland will be done it will have spent a comparable time in development to X, and will have accumulated the same amount of baggage that people dislike about X.\n
          \n
          > What percentage of the Linux Desktop universe are you expecting will still be using X at the end of 2025?\n
          \n
          More or less the same that’s using X right now. GNOME, KDE and the various distros will get a bloody nose trying to force Wayland through but if that’s the only way they learn, so be it.\n
          \n
          The Steam Deck actually has one of the few use cases where Wayland actually makes sense, it’s a turnkey, highly controlled stack (both software and hardware) where users don’t have any reasons to care about what’s under the hood. I expect them to switch ASAP.\n
          \n
          Another place where Wayland can be used straightaway is the desktop graphical login screen (which is the original reason it was created for anyway). It’s a singular application with reduced requirements and simplistic interactions.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-20 09:43:35.0 +01:00
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          "@theshatterstone54@feddit.uk"
          "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
          "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
          "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
          "@LeFantome@programming.dev"
        ]
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          date: 2023-11-20 09:43:35.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 142343
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2296
        +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2029 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2295 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2020 …}
        +body: """
          > but why should AMD, Intel and NVIDIA care about Linux desktop\n
          \n
          They care because it’s free testing for their more lucrative Linux-based products. We’re their lab rats.
          """
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          "@theshatterstone54@feddit.uk"
          "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
          "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
          "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
        ]
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        -id: 143393
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  +body: """
    I’m glad Wayland solves problems for you, but it creates them for others.\n
    \n
    Imagine being forced to go the other way. Could you be coerced into going back to Xorg? What would you do if a distro attempted to do that to you?
    """
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72 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2083
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    +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
    +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
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    +body: """
      Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
      \n
      This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
      \n
      Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
      \n
      ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
      \n
      - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
      - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
      - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
      - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
      \n
      …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
      \n
      In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
      \n
      As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
      \n
      Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
      \n
      And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
      \n
      As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
      \n
      Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
      - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
      - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
      - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
      - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
      - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
      \n
      Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
      - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
      \n
      Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
      - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
      - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
      - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
      - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
      \n
      Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
      \n
      DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
      \n
      Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
      \n
      As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
      - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
      - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
      \n
      Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
      - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
      - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
      - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
      - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
      - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
      - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
      - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
      - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
      - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
      - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
      - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
      \n
      And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
      """
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      date: 2024-02-17 22:16:50.0 +01:00
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        +body: """
          You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
          \n
          Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-19 03:09:37.0 +01:00
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      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2083}
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        +body: """
          “Linux” is not an entity with well defined goals, it’s a community that mostly does whatever it wants. That has the fortunate side effect of producing labors of love in software, that prove really useful in the real world. But it also ignores things like user experience, which affect things like the desktop the most.\n
          \n
          On Linux the user is a second-class citizen, because worth in the community is determined by how much a person contributes (in code, testing, artwork, documentation etc.)\n
          \n
          The Linux mindset is best expressed by a quote from Simon Travaglia (which I paraphrase because I don’t remember it verbatim): “We’re tasked with the well-being of the servers, not the users. They’re lucky we even let them log in since users technically *upset* the smooth operation of the servers.”
          """
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        -id: 141024
        -bodyTs: "'affect':50 'also':43 'artwork':83 'best':90 'citizen':66 'class':65 'code':81 'communiti':13,71 'contribut':79 'defin':8 'desktop':54 'determin':73 'document':84 'effect':25 'entiti':5 'etc':85 'even':126 'experi':48 'express':91 'fortun':23 'goal':9 'ignor':44 'labor':28 'let':127 'like':46,52 'linux':1,58,87 'log':129 'love':30 'lucki':124 'mindset':88 'most':15 'much':76 'oper':137 'paraphras':100 'person':78 'produc':27 'prove':34 'quot':94 're':109,123 'real':39 'realli':35 'rememb':105 'second':64 'second-class':63 'server':118,140 'side':24 'simon':96 'sinc':131 'smooth':136 'softwar':32 'task':110 'technic':133 'test':82 'thing':45,51 'travaglia':97 'upset':134 'use':36 'user':47,60,121,132 'verbatim':107 'want':19 'well':7,114 'well-b':113 'whatev':17 'world':40 'worth':68"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700429766 {#2091
          date: 2023-11-19 22:36:06.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 141024
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2330
        +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2029 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2348 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2020 …}
        +body: """
          > You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
          \n
          All I see is a rift in the community over one side pushing software that’s beta-quality at best, and acting very arrogant and dismissive towards real adoption impediments.\n
          \n
          Which is par for the course for Linux, naturally, but “it’s happening” is wishful thinking at this stage. At this rate and with this attitude it will take at least another 5 years.\n
          \n
          Wayland’s worst enemy is its own fans.
          """
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          "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
          "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
          "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
          "@LeFantome@programming.dev"
        ]
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          date: 2023-11-19 22:48:05.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 141068
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2338
        +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2029 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2159 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2020 …}
        +body: """
          They aren’t facts, again, they’re wishful thinking. I’m a long time contributor and developer and I can assure you that with things as complex as X and Wayland things would move slowly even if everybody was of the same mind, let alone in the “herding cats” style of FOSS.\n
          \n
          Wayland has been in development for 15 years and it’s still not ready – please, it’s not, and stomping our feet and claiming otherwise won’t make it so. Another 5 years will probably see it reach a more stable state.\n
          \n
          What do I mean by ready? Well the desktop stack [on Linux and *NIX] is extremely complex. Whenever you’re dealing with something extremely complex in software, over the years, you amass a large amount of solutions that solve real world problems. That’s what I call “ready”. Most of those solutions will be dealing with quirks and use cases which do not affect everybody equally, but they’re each crucial in their own way to a varying slice of the userbase.\n
          \n
          Whenever you rewrite something from scratch you throw away the bulk of those quirks. It’s a common fallacy for developers to look at the shiny new thing and think that it’s better. In reality it’s worthless without the quirks, and accumulating those quirks all over again takes a long time. X has been accumulating them for 40 years. Wayland is barely scratching the surface.\n
          \n
          The fact the protocol places and splits the burden over the various DE and WM teams will NOT help. We will need libraries that solve the same problem once instead of over and over, and most DE/WM will come to depend on those libraries. The end result will be eerily similar to X. Ironically, by the time Wayland will be done it will have spent a comparable time in development to X, and will have accumulated the same amount of baggage that people dislike about X.\n
          \n
          > What percentage of the Linux Desktop universe are you expecting will still be using X at the end of 2025?\n
          \n
          More or less the same that’s using X right now. GNOME, KDE and the various distros will get a bloody nose trying to force Wayland through but if that’s the only way they learn, so be it.\n
          \n
          The Steam Deck actually has one of the few use cases where Wayland actually makes sense, it’s a turnkey, highly controlled stack (both software and hardware) where users don’t have any reasons to care about what’s under the hood. I expect them to switch ASAP.\n
          \n
          Another place where Wayland can be used straightaway is the desktop graphical login screen (which is the original reason it was created for anyway). It’s a singular application with reduced requirements and simplistic interactions.
          """
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          "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
          "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
          "@LeFantome@programming.dev"
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          date: 2023-11-20 09:43:35.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 142343
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2296
        +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2029 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2295 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2020 …}
        +body: """
          > but why should AMD, Intel and NVIDIA care about Linux desktop\n
          \n
          They care because it’s free testing for their more lucrative Linux-based products. We’re their lab rats.
          """
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          "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
          "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
          "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
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      date: 2023-11-20 18:44:08.0 +01:00
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  +body: """
    I’m glad Wayland solves problems for you, but it creates them for others.\n
    \n
    Imagine being forced to go the other way. Could you be coerced into going back to Xorg? What would you do if a distro attempted to do that to you?
    """
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#2086
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    +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
    +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
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    +body: """
      Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
      \n
      This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
      \n
      Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
      \n
      ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
      \n
      - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
      - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
      - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
      - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
      \n
      …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
      \n
      In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
      \n
      As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
      \n
      Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
      \n
      And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
      \n
      As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
      \n
      Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
      - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
      - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
      - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
      - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
      - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
      \n
      Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
      - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
      \n
      Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
      - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
      - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
      - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
      - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
      \n
      Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
      \n
      DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
      \n
      Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
      \n
      As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
      - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
      - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
      \n
      Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
      - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
      - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
      - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
      - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
      - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
      - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
      - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
      - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
      - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
      - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
      - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
      \n
      And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
      """
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      date: 2024-02-17 22:16:50.0 +01:00
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        +body: """
          You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
          \n
          Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
          """
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      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2083
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        +body: """
          I’m glad Wayland solves problems for you, but it creates them for others.\n
          \n
          Imagine being forced to go the other way. Could you be coerced into going back to Xorg? What would you do if a distro attempted to do that to you?
          """
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2086}
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2330
        +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2029 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2348 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2020 …}
        +body: """
          > You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
          \n
          All I see is a rift in the community over one side pushing software that’s beta-quality at best, and acting very arrogant and dismissive towards real adoption impediments.\n
          \n
          Which is par for the course for Linux, naturally, but “it’s happening” is wishful thinking at this stage. At this rate and with this attitude it will take at least another 5 years.\n
          \n
          Wayland’s worst enemy is its own fans.
          """
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          "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
          "@LeFantome@programming.dev"
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          date: 2023-11-19 22:48:05.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 141068
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2338
        +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2029 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2159 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2020 …}
        +body: """
          They aren’t facts, again, they’re wishful thinking. I’m a long time contributor and developer and I can assure you that with things as complex as X and Wayland things would move slowly even if everybody was of the same mind, let alone in the “herding cats” style of FOSS.\n
          \n
          Wayland has been in development for 15 years and it’s still not ready – please, it’s not, and stomping our feet and claiming otherwise won’t make it so. Another 5 years will probably see it reach a more stable state.\n
          \n
          What do I mean by ready? Well the desktop stack [on Linux and *NIX] is extremely complex. Whenever you’re dealing with something extremely complex in software, over the years, you amass a large amount of solutions that solve real world problems. That’s what I call “ready”. Most of those solutions will be dealing with quirks and use cases which do not affect everybody equally, but they’re each crucial in their own way to a varying slice of the userbase.\n
          \n
          Whenever you rewrite something from scratch you throw away the bulk of those quirks. It’s a common fallacy for developers to look at the shiny new thing and think that it’s better. In reality it’s worthless without the quirks, and accumulating those quirks all over again takes a long time. X has been accumulating them for 40 years. Wayland is barely scratching the surface.\n
          \n
          The fact the protocol places and splits the burden over the various DE and WM teams will NOT help. We will need libraries that solve the same problem once instead of over and over, and most DE/WM will come to depend on those libraries. The end result will be eerily similar to X. Ironically, by the time Wayland will be done it will have spent a comparable time in development to X, and will have accumulated the same amount of baggage that people dislike about X.\n
          \n
          > What percentage of the Linux Desktop universe are you expecting will still be using X at the end of 2025?\n
          \n
          More or less the same that’s using X right now. GNOME, KDE and the various distros will get a bloody nose trying to force Wayland through but if that’s the only way they learn, so be it.\n
          \n
          The Steam Deck actually has one of the few use cases where Wayland actually makes sense, it’s a turnkey, highly controlled stack (both software and hardware) where users don’t have any reasons to care about what’s under the hood. I expect them to switch ASAP.\n
          \n
          Another place where Wayland can be used straightaway is the desktop graphical login screen (which is the original reason it was created for anyway). It’s a singular application with reduced requirements and simplistic interactions.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-20 09:43:35.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 142343
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2296
        +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2029 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2295 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2020 …}
        +body: """
          > but why should AMD, Intel and NVIDIA care about Linux desktop\n
          \n
          They care because it’s free testing for their more lucrative Linux-based products. We’re their lab rats.
          """
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  +body: """
    “Linux” is not an entity with well defined goals, it’s a community that mostly does whatever it wants. That has the fortunate side effect of producing labors of love in software, that prove really useful in the real world. But it also ignores things like user experience, which affect things like the desktop the most.\n
    \n
    On Linux the user is a second-class citizen, because worth in the community is determined by how much a person contributes (in code, testing, artwork, documentation etc.)\n
    \n
    The Linux mindset is best expressed by a quote from Simon Travaglia (which I paraphrase because I don’t remember it verbatim): “We’re tasked with the well-being of the servers, not the users. They’re lucky we even let them log in since users technically *upset* the smooth operation of the servers.”
    """
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}
 
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#2086
  +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
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    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2981 …}
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    +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
    +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
    +url: null
    +body: """
      Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
      \n
      This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
      \n
      Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
      \n
      ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
      \n
      - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
      - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
      - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
      - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
      \n
      …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
      \n
      In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
      \n
      As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
      \n
      Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
      \n
      And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
      \n
      As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
      \n
      Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
      - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
      - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
      - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
      - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
      - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
      \n
      Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
      - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
      \n
      Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
      - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
      - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
      - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
      - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
      \n
      Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
      \n
      DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
      \n
      Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
      \n
      As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
      - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
      - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
      \n
      Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
      - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
      - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
      - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
      - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
      - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
      - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
      - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
      - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
      - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
      - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
      - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
      \n
      And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
      """
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      date: 2024-02-17 22:16:50.0 +01:00
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      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2028
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2020 …}
        +body: """
          You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
          \n
          Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-19 03:09:37.0 +01:00
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          "@theshatterstone54@feddit.uk"
          "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
          "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
        ]
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        -id: 138758
        -bodyTs: "'adopt':44 'better':36 'come':40 'everyth':16 'featur':14 'fine':18 'forc':43 'forgot':2 'happen':28 'let':26 'll':39 'make':47 'natur':29 'need':9 'part':4 'peopl':23,48 'push':22 'readi':34 'reduc':13 'resent':49 'stop':21 'toward':24 'tri':41 'wayland':10,25 'work':17 'xorg':20"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700359777 {#2021
          date: 2023-11-19 03:09:37.0 +01:00
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2020 …}
        +body: """
          I’m glad Wayland solves problems for you, but it creates them for others.\n
          \n
          Imagine being forced to go the other way. Could you be coerced into going back to Xorg? What would you do if a distro attempted to do that to you?
          """
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          date: 2023-11-19 22:21:07.0 +01:00
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          "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
          "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
          "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
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        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-11-19 22:21:07.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 140989
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        +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
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        +body: """
          > You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
          \n
          All I see is a rift in the community over one side pushing software that’s beta-quality at best, and acting very arrogant and dismissive towards real adoption impediments.\n
          \n
          Which is par for the course for Linux, naturally, but “it’s happening” is wishful thinking at this stage. At this rate and with this attitude it will take at least another 5 years.\n
          \n
          Wayland’s worst enemy is its own fans.
          """
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          "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
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          "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
          "@LeFantome@programming.dev"
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          date: 2023-11-19 22:48:05.0 +01:00
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        +body: """
          They aren’t facts, again, they’re wishful thinking. I’m a long time contributor and developer and I can assure you that with things as complex as X and Wayland things would move slowly even if everybody was of the same mind, let alone in the “herding cats” style of FOSS.\n
          \n
          Wayland has been in development for 15 years and it’s still not ready – please, it’s not, and stomping our feet and claiming otherwise won’t make it so. Another 5 years will probably see it reach a more stable state.\n
          \n
          What do I mean by ready? Well the desktop stack [on Linux and *NIX] is extremely complex. Whenever you’re dealing with something extremely complex in software, over the years, you amass a large amount of solutions that solve real world problems. That’s what I call “ready”. Most of those solutions will be dealing with quirks and use cases which do not affect everybody equally, but they’re each crucial in their own way to a varying slice of the userbase.\n
          \n
          Whenever you rewrite something from scratch you throw away the bulk of those quirks. It’s a common fallacy for developers to look at the shiny new thing and think that it’s better. In reality it’s worthless without the quirks, and accumulating those quirks all over again takes a long time. X has been accumulating them for 40 years. Wayland is barely scratching the surface.\n
          \n
          The fact the protocol places and splits the burden over the various DE and WM teams will NOT help. We will need libraries that solve the same problem once instead of over and over, and most DE/WM will come to depend on those libraries. The end result will be eerily similar to X. Ironically, by the time Wayland will be done it will have spent a comparable time in development to X, and will have accumulated the same amount of baggage that people dislike about X.\n
          \n
          > What percentage of the Linux Desktop universe are you expecting will still be using X at the end of 2025?\n
          \n
          More or less the same that’s using X right now. GNOME, KDE and the various distros will get a bloody nose trying to force Wayland through but if that’s the only way they learn, so be it.\n
          \n
          The Steam Deck actually has one of the few use cases where Wayland actually makes sense, it’s a turnkey, highly controlled stack (both software and hardware) where users don’t have any reasons to care about what’s under the hood. I expect them to switch ASAP.\n
          \n
          Another place where Wayland can be used straightaway is the desktop graphical login screen (which is the original reason it was created for anyway). It’s a singular application with reduced requirements and simplistic interactions.
          """
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2296
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          > but why should AMD, Intel and NVIDIA care about Linux desktop\n
          \n
          They care because it’s free testing for their more lucrative Linux-based products. We’re their lab rats.
          """
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  +body: """
    “Linux” is not an entity with well defined goals, it’s a community that mostly does whatever it wants. That has the fortunate side effect of producing labors of love in software, that prove really useful in the real world. But it also ignores things like user experience, which affect things like the desktop the most.\n
    \n
    On Linux the user is a second-class citizen, because worth in the community is determined by how much a person contributes (in code, testing, artwork, documentation etc.)\n
    \n
    The Linux mindset is best expressed by a quote from Simon Travaglia (which I paraphrase because I don’t remember it verbatim): “We’re tasked with the well-being of the servers, not the users. They’re lucky we even let them log in since users technically *upset* the smooth operation of the servers.”
    """
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    "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
    "@michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
    "@LeFantome@programming.dev"
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}
 
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76 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2086
  +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2029
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2981 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
    +image: null
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2938 …}
    +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
    +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
    +url: null
    +body: """
      Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
      \n
      This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
      \n
      Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
      \n
      ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
      \n
      - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
      - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
      - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
      - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
      \n
      …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
      \n
      In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
      \n
      As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
      \n
      Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
      \n
      And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
      \n
      As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
      \n
      Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
      - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
      - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
      - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
      - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
      - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
      \n
      Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
      - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
      \n
      Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
      - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
      - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
      - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
      - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
      \n
      Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
      \n
      DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
      \n
      Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
      \n
      As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
      - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
      - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
      \n
      Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
      - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
      - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
      - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
      - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
      - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
      - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
      - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
      - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
      - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
      - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
      - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
      \n
      And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
      """
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        +body: """
          You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
          \n
          Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
          """
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        +body: """
          I’m glad Wayland solves problems for you, but it creates them for others.\n
          \n
          Imagine being forced to go the other way. Could you be coerced into going back to Xorg? What would you do if a distro attempted to do that to you?
          """
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          > You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
          \n
          All I see is a rift in the community over one side pushing software that’s beta-quality at best, and acting very arrogant and dismissive towards real adoption impediments.\n
          \n
          Which is par for the course for Linux, naturally, but “it’s happening” is wishful thinking at this stage. At this rate and with this attitude it will take at least another 5 years.\n
          \n
          Wayland’s worst enemy is its own fans.
          """
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          They aren’t facts, again, they’re wishful thinking. I’m a long time contributor and developer and I can assure you that with things as complex as X and Wayland things would move slowly even if everybody was of the same mind, let alone in the “herding cats” style of FOSS.\n
          \n
          Wayland has been in development for 15 years and it’s still not ready – please, it’s not, and stomping our feet and claiming otherwise won’t make it so. Another 5 years will probably see it reach a more stable state.\n
          \n
          What do I mean by ready? Well the desktop stack [on Linux and *NIX] is extremely complex. Whenever you’re dealing with something extremely complex in software, over the years, you amass a large amount of solutions that solve real world problems. That’s what I call “ready”. Most of those solutions will be dealing with quirks and use cases which do not affect everybody equally, but they’re each crucial in their own way to a varying slice of the userbase.\n
          \n
          Whenever you rewrite something from scratch you throw away the bulk of those quirks. It’s a common fallacy for developers to look at the shiny new thing and think that it’s better. In reality it’s worthless without the quirks, and accumulating those quirks all over again takes a long time. X has been accumulating them for 40 years. Wayland is barely scratching the surface.\n
          \n
          The fact the protocol places and splits the burden over the various DE and WM teams will NOT help. We will need libraries that solve the same problem once instead of over and over, and most DE/WM will come to depend on those libraries. The end result will be eerily similar to X. Ironically, by the time Wayland will be done it will have spent a comparable time in development to X, and will have accumulated the same amount of baggage that people dislike about X.\n
          \n
          > What percentage of the Linux Desktop universe are you expecting will still be using X at the end of 2025?\n
          \n
          More or less the same that’s using X right now. GNOME, KDE and the various distros will get a bloody nose trying to force Wayland through but if that’s the only way they learn, so be it.\n
          \n
          The Steam Deck actually has one of the few use cases where Wayland actually makes sense, it’s a turnkey, highly controlled stack (both software and hardware) where users don’t have any reasons to care about what’s under the hood. I expect them to switch ASAP.\n
          \n
          Another place where Wayland can be used straightaway is the desktop graphical login screen (which is the original reason it was created for anyway). It’s a singular application with reduced requirements and simplistic interactions.
          """
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2296
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        +body: """
          > but why should AMD, Intel and NVIDIA care about Linux desktop\n
          \n
          They care because it’s free testing for their more lucrative Linux-based products. We’re their lab rats.
          """
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    “Linux” is not an entity with well defined goals, it’s a community that mostly does whatever it wants. That has the fortunate side effect of producing labors of love in software, that prove really useful in the real world. But it also ignores things like user experience, which affect things like the desktop the most.\n
    \n
    On Linux the user is a second-class citizen, because worth in the community is determined by how much a person contributes (in code, testing, artwork, documentation etc.)\n
    \n
    The Linux mindset is best expressed by a quote from Simon Travaglia (which I paraphrase because I don’t remember it verbatim): “We’re tasked with the well-being of the servers, not the users. They’re lucky we even let them log in since users technically *upset* the smooth operation of the servers.”
    """
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#2330
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    +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
    +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
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    +body: """
      Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
      \n
      This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
      \n
      Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
      \n
      ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
      \n
      - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
      - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
      - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
      - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
      \n
      …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
      \n
      In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
      \n
      As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
      \n
      Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
      \n
      And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
      \n
      As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
      \n
      Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
      - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
      - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
      - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
      - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
      - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
      \n
      Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
      - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
      \n
      Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
      - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
      - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
      - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
      - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
      \n
      Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
      \n
      DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
      \n
      Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
      \n
      As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
      - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
      - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
      \n
      Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
      - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
      - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
      - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
      - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
      - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
      - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
      - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
      - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
      - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
      - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
      - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
      \n
      And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
      """
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        +body: """
          You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
          \n
          Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
          """
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          I’m glad Wayland solves problems for you, but it creates them for others.\n
          \n
          Imagine being forced to go the other way. Could you be coerced into going back to Xorg? What would you do if a distro attempted to do that to you?
          """
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          “Linux” is not an entity with well defined goals, it’s a community that mostly does whatever it wants. That has the fortunate side effect of producing labors of love in software, that prove really useful in the real world. But it also ignores things like user experience, which affect things like the desktop the most.\n
          \n
          On Linux the user is a second-class citizen, because worth in the community is determined by how much a person contributes (in code, testing, artwork, documentation etc.)\n
          \n
          The Linux mindset is best expressed by a quote from Simon Travaglia (which I paraphrase because I don’t remember it verbatim): “We’re tasked with the well-being of the servers, not the users. They’re lucky we even let them log in since users technically *upset* the smooth operation of the servers.”
          """
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2338
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        +body: """
          They aren’t facts, again, they’re wishful thinking. I’m a long time contributor and developer and I can assure you that with things as complex as X and Wayland things would move slowly even if everybody was of the same mind, let alone in the “herding cats” style of FOSS.\n
          \n
          Wayland has been in development for 15 years and it’s still not ready – please, it’s not, and stomping our feet and claiming otherwise won’t make it so. Another 5 years will probably see it reach a more stable state.\n
          \n
          What do I mean by ready? Well the desktop stack [on Linux and *NIX] is extremely complex. Whenever you’re dealing with something extremely complex in software, over the years, you amass a large amount of solutions that solve real world problems. That’s what I call “ready”. Most of those solutions will be dealing with quirks and use cases which do not affect everybody equally, but they’re each crucial in their own way to a varying slice of the userbase.\n
          \n
          Whenever you rewrite something from scratch you throw away the bulk of those quirks. It’s a common fallacy for developers to look at the shiny new thing and think that it’s better. In reality it’s worthless without the quirks, and accumulating those quirks all over again takes a long time. X has been accumulating them for 40 years. Wayland is barely scratching the surface.\n
          \n
          The fact the protocol places and splits the burden over the various DE and WM teams will NOT help. We will need libraries that solve the same problem once instead of over and over, and most DE/WM will come to depend on those libraries. The end result will be eerily similar to X. Ironically, by the time Wayland will be done it will have spent a comparable time in development to X, and will have accumulated the same amount of baggage that people dislike about X.\n
          \n
          > What percentage of the Linux Desktop universe are you expecting will still be using X at the end of 2025?\n
          \n
          More or less the same that’s using X right now. GNOME, KDE and the various distros will get a bloody nose trying to force Wayland through but if that’s the only way they learn, so be it.\n
          \n
          The Steam Deck actually has one of the few use cases where Wayland actually makes sense, it’s a turnkey, highly controlled stack (both software and hardware) where users don’t have any reasons to care about what’s under the hood. I expect them to switch ASAP.\n
          \n
          Another place where Wayland can be used straightaway is the desktop graphical login screen (which is the original reason it was created for anyway). It’s a singular application with reduced requirements and simplistic interactions.
          """
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2296
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        +body: """
          > but why should AMD, Intel and NVIDIA care about Linux desktop\n
          \n
          They care because it’s free testing for their more lucrative Linux-based products. We’re their lab rats.
          """
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    +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700502248 {#2892
      date: 2023-11-20 18:44:08.0 +01:00
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  +body: """
    > You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
    \n
    All I see is a rift in the community over one side pushing software that’s beta-quality at best, and acting very arrogant and dismissive towards real adoption impediments.\n
    \n
    Which is par for the course for Linux, naturally, but “it’s happening” is wishful thinking at this stage. At this rate and with this attitude it will take at least another 5 years.\n
    \n
    Wayland’s worst enemy is its own fans.
    """
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79 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2330
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    +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
    +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
    +url: null
    +body: """
      Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
      \n
      This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
      \n
      Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
      \n
      ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
      \n
      - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
      - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
      - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
      - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
      \n
      …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
      \n
      In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
      \n
      As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
      \n
      Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
      \n
      And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
      \n
      As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
      \n
      Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
      - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
      - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
      - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
      - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
      - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
      \n
      Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
      - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
      \n
      Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
      - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
      - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
      - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
      - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
      \n
      Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
      \n
      DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
      \n
      Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
      \n
      As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
      - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
      - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
      \n
      Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
      - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
      - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
      - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
      - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
      - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
      - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
      - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
      - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
      - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
      - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
      - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
      \n
      And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
      """
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      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2028
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        +body: """
          You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
          \n
          Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
          """
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          I’m glad Wayland solves problems for you, but it creates them for others.\n
          \n
          Imagine being forced to go the other way. Could you be coerced into going back to Xorg? What would you do if a distro attempted to do that to you?
          """
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2086
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        +body: """
          “Linux” is not an entity with well defined goals, it’s a community that mostly does whatever it wants. That has the fortunate side effect of producing labors of love in software, that prove really useful in the real world. But it also ignores things like user experience, which affect things like the desktop the most.\n
          \n
          On Linux the user is a second-class citizen, because worth in the community is determined by how much a person contributes (in code, testing, artwork, documentation etc.)\n
          \n
          The Linux mindset is best expressed by a quote from Simon Travaglia (which I paraphrase because I don’t remember it verbatim): “We’re tasked with the well-being of the servers, not the users. They’re lucky we even let them log in since users technically *upset* the smooth operation of the servers.”
          """
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2330}
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2338
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        +body: """
          They aren’t facts, again, they’re wishful thinking. I’m a long time contributor and developer and I can assure you that with things as complex as X and Wayland things would move slowly even if everybody was of the same mind, let alone in the “herding cats” style of FOSS.\n
          \n
          Wayland has been in development for 15 years and it’s still not ready – please, it’s not, and stomping our feet and claiming otherwise won’t make it so. Another 5 years will probably see it reach a more stable state.\n
          \n
          What do I mean by ready? Well the desktop stack [on Linux and *NIX] is extremely complex. Whenever you’re dealing with something extremely complex in software, over the years, you amass a large amount of solutions that solve real world problems. That’s what I call “ready”. Most of those solutions will be dealing with quirks and use cases which do not affect everybody equally, but they’re each crucial in their own way to a varying slice of the userbase.\n
          \n
          Whenever you rewrite something from scratch you throw away the bulk of those quirks. It’s a common fallacy for developers to look at the shiny new thing and think that it’s better. In reality it’s worthless without the quirks, and accumulating those quirks all over again takes a long time. X has been accumulating them for 40 years. Wayland is barely scratching the surface.\n
          \n
          The fact the protocol places and splits the burden over the various DE and WM teams will NOT help. We will need libraries that solve the same problem once instead of over and over, and most DE/WM will come to depend on those libraries. The end result will be eerily similar to X. Ironically, by the time Wayland will be done it will have spent a comparable time in development to X, and will have accumulated the same amount of baggage that people dislike about X.\n
          \n
          > What percentage of the Linux Desktop universe are you expecting will still be using X at the end of 2025?\n
          \n
          More or less the same that’s using X right now. GNOME, KDE and the various distros will get a bloody nose trying to force Wayland through but if that’s the only way they learn, so be it.\n
          \n
          The Steam Deck actually has one of the few use cases where Wayland actually makes sense, it’s a turnkey, highly controlled stack (both software and hardware) where users don’t have any reasons to care about what’s under the hood. I expect them to switch ASAP.\n
          \n
          Another place where Wayland can be used straightaway is the desktop graphical login screen (which is the original reason it was created for anyway). It’s a singular application with reduced requirements and simplistic interactions.
          """
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2296
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          > but why should AMD, Intel and NVIDIA care about Linux desktop\n
          \n
          They care because it’s free testing for their more lucrative Linux-based products. We’re their lab rats.
          """
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      date: 2023-11-20 18:44:08.0 +01:00
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  +body: """
    > You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
    \n
    All I see is a rift in the community over one side pushing software that’s beta-quality at best, and acting very arrogant and dismissive towards real adoption impediments.\n
    \n
    Which is par for the course for Linux, naturally, but “it’s happening” is wishful thinking at this stage. At this rate and with this attitude it will take at least another 5 years.\n
    \n
    Wayland’s worst enemy is its own fans.
    """
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#2330
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    +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
    +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
    +url: null
    +body: """
      Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
      \n
      This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
      \n
      Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
      \n
      ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
      \n
      - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
      - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
      - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
      - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
      \n
      …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
      \n
      In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
      \n
      As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
      \n
      Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
      \n
      And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
      \n
      As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
      \n
      Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
      - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
      - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
      - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
      - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
      - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
      \n
      Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
      - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
      \n
      Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
      - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
      - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
      - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
      - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
      \n
      Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
      \n
      DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
      \n
      Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
      \n
      As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
      - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
      - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
      \n
      Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
      - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
      - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
      - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
      - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
      - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
      - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
      - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
      - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
      - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
      - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
      - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
      \n
      And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
      """
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      date: 2024-02-17 22:16:50.0 +01:00
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      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2028
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        +body: """
          You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
          \n
          Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
          """
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      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2083
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        +body: """
          I’m glad Wayland solves problems for you, but it creates them for others.\n
          \n
          Imagine being forced to go the other way. Could you be coerced into going back to Xorg? What would you do if a distro attempted to do that to you?
          """
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2086
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        +body: """
          “Linux” is not an entity with well defined goals, it’s a community that mostly does whatever it wants. That has the fortunate side effect of producing labors of love in software, that prove really useful in the real world. But it also ignores things like user experience, which affect things like the desktop the most.\n
          \n
          On Linux the user is a second-class citizen, because worth in the community is determined by how much a person contributes (in code, testing, artwork, documentation etc.)\n
          \n
          The Linux mindset is best expressed by a quote from Simon Travaglia (which I paraphrase because I don’t remember it verbatim): “We’re tasked with the well-being of the servers, not the users. They’re lucky we even let them log in since users technically *upset* the smooth operation of the servers.”
          """
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2330}
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2338
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        +body: """
          They aren’t facts, again, they’re wishful thinking. I’m a long time contributor and developer and I can assure you that with things as complex as X and Wayland things would move slowly even if everybody was of the same mind, let alone in the “herding cats” style of FOSS.\n
          \n
          Wayland has been in development for 15 years and it’s still not ready – please, it’s not, and stomping our feet and claiming otherwise won’t make it so. Another 5 years will probably see it reach a more stable state.\n
          \n
          What do I mean by ready? Well the desktop stack [on Linux and *NIX] is extremely complex. Whenever you’re dealing with something extremely complex in software, over the years, you amass a large amount of solutions that solve real world problems. That’s what I call “ready”. Most of those solutions will be dealing with quirks and use cases which do not affect everybody equally, but they’re each crucial in their own way to a varying slice of the userbase.\n
          \n
          Whenever you rewrite something from scratch you throw away the bulk of those quirks. It’s a common fallacy for developers to look at the shiny new thing and think that it’s better. In reality it’s worthless without the quirks, and accumulating those quirks all over again takes a long time. X has been accumulating them for 40 years. Wayland is barely scratching the surface.\n
          \n
          The fact the protocol places and splits the burden over the various DE and WM teams will NOT help. We will need libraries that solve the same problem once instead of over and over, and most DE/WM will come to depend on those libraries. The end result will be eerily similar to X. Ironically, by the time Wayland will be done it will have spent a comparable time in development to X, and will have accumulated the same amount of baggage that people dislike about X.\n
          \n
          > What percentage of the Linux Desktop universe are you expecting will still be using X at the end of 2025?\n
          \n
          More or less the same that’s using X right now. GNOME, KDE and the various distros will get a bloody nose trying to force Wayland through but if that’s the only way they learn, so be it.\n
          \n
          The Steam Deck actually has one of the few use cases where Wayland actually makes sense, it’s a turnkey, highly controlled stack (both software and hardware) where users don’t have any reasons to care about what’s under the hood. I expect them to switch ASAP.\n
          \n
          Another place where Wayland can be used straightaway is the desktop graphical login screen (which is the original reason it was created for anyway). It’s a singular application with reduced requirements and simplistic interactions.
          """
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2296
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        +body: """
          > but why should AMD, Intel and NVIDIA care about Linux desktop\n
          \n
          They care because it’s free testing for their more lucrative Linux-based products. We’re their lab rats.
          """
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    +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700502248 {#2892
      date: 2023-11-20 18:44:08.0 +01:00
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  +body: """
    > You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
    \n
    All I see is a rift in the community over one side pushing software that’s beta-quality at best, and acting very arrogant and dismissive towards real adoption impediments.\n
    \n
    Which is par for the course for Linux, naturally, but “it’s happening” is wishful thinking at this stage. At this rate and with this attitude it will take at least another 5 years.\n
    \n
    Wayland’s worst enemy is its own fans.
    """
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#2338
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    +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
    +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
    +url: null
    +body: """
      Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
      \n
      This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
      \n
      Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
      \n
      ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
      \n
      - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
      - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
      - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
      - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
      \n
      …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
      \n
      In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
      \n
      As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
      \n
      Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
      \n
      And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
      \n
      As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
      \n
      Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
      - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
      - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
      - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
      - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
      - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
      \n
      Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
      - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
      \n
      Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
      - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
      - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
      - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
      - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
      \n
      Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
      \n
      DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
      \n
      Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
      \n
      As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
      - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
      - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
      \n
      Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
      - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
      - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
      - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
      - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
      - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
      - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
      - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
      - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
      - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
      - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
      - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
      \n
      And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
      """
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      date: 2024-02-17 22:16:50.0 +01:00
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      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2028
        +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
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        +body: """
          You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
          \n
          Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
          """
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        -id: 138758
        -bodyTs: "'adopt':44 'better':36 'come':40 'everyth':16 'featur':14 'fine':18 'forc':43 'forgot':2 'happen':28 'let':26 'll':39 'make':47 'natur':29 'need':9 'part':4 'peopl':23,48 'push':22 'readi':34 'reduc':13 'resent':49 'stop':21 'toward':24 'tri':41 'wayland':10,25 'work':17 'xorg':20"
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          date: 2023-11-19 03:09:37.0 +01:00
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      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2083
        +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
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        +body: """
          I’m glad Wayland solves problems for you, but it creates them for others.\n
          \n
          Imagine being forced to go the other way. Could you be coerced into going back to Xorg? What would you do if a distro attempted to do that to you?
          """
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2086
        +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
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        +body: """
          “Linux” is not an entity with well defined goals, it’s a community that mostly does whatever it wants. That has the fortunate side effect of producing labors of love in software, that prove really useful in the real world. But it also ignores things like user experience, which affect things like the desktop the most.\n
          \n
          On Linux the user is a second-class citizen, because worth in the community is determined by how much a person contributes (in code, testing, artwork, documentation etc.)\n
          \n
          The Linux mindset is best expressed by a quote from Simon Travaglia (which I paraphrase because I don’t remember it verbatim): “We’re tasked with the well-being of the servers, not the users. They’re lucky we even let them log in since users technically *upset* the smooth operation of the servers.”
          """
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          "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
          "@michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
          "@LeFantome@programming.dev"
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          date: 2023-11-19 22:36:06.0 +01:00
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2330
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        +body: """
          > You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
          \n
          All I see is a rift in the community over one side pushing software that’s beta-quality at best, and acting very arrogant and dismissive towards real adoption impediments.\n
          \n
          Which is par for the course for Linux, naturally, but “it’s happening” is wishful thinking at this stage. At this rate and with this attitude it will take at least another 5 years.\n
          \n
          Wayland’s worst enemy is its own fans.
          """
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          "@theshatterstone54@feddit.uk"
          "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
          "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
          "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
          "@LeFantome@programming.dev"
        ]
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        -id: 141068
        -bodyTs: "'5':74 'act':33 'adopt':40 'anoth':73 'arrog':35 'attitud':67 'best':31 'beta':28 'beta-qu':27 'communiti':19 'cours':47 'dismiss':37 'enemi':79 'fan':83 'forgot':2 'happen':10,54 'impedi':41 'least':72 'linux':49 'natur':50 'one':21 'par':44 'part':4 'push':23 'qualiti':29 'rate':63 'real':39 'rift':16 'see':13 'side':22 'softwar':24 'stage':60 'take':70 'think':57 'toward':38 'wayland':76 'wish':56 'worst':78 'year':75"
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2338}
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2296
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        +body: """
          > but why should AMD, Intel and NVIDIA care about Linux desktop\n
          \n
          They care because it’s free testing for their more lucrative Linux-based products. We’re their lab rats.
          """
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    They aren’t facts, again, they’re wishful thinking. I’m a long time contributor and developer and I can assure you that with things as complex as X and Wayland things would move slowly even if everybody was of the same mind, let alone in the “herding cats” style of FOSS.\n
    \n
    Wayland has been in development for 15 years and it’s still not ready – please, it’s not, and stomping our feet and claiming otherwise won’t make it so. Another 5 years will probably see it reach a more stable state.\n
    \n
    What do I mean by ready? Well the desktop stack [on Linux and *NIX] is extremely complex. Whenever you’re dealing with something extremely complex in software, over the years, you amass a large amount of solutions that solve real world problems. That’s what I call “ready”. Most of those solutions will be dealing with quirks and use cases which do not affect everybody equally, but they’re each crucial in their own way to a varying slice of the userbase.\n
    \n
    Whenever you rewrite something from scratch you throw away the bulk of those quirks. It’s a common fallacy for developers to look at the shiny new thing and think that it’s better. In reality it’s worthless without the quirks, and accumulating those quirks all over again takes a long time. X has been accumulating them for 40 years. Wayland is barely scratching the surface.\n
    \n
    The fact the protocol places and splits the burden over the various DE and WM teams will NOT help. We will need libraries that solve the same problem once instead of over and over, and most DE/WM will come to depend on those libraries. The end result will be eerily similar to X. Ironically, by the time Wayland will be done it will have spent a comparable time in development to X, and will have accumulated the same amount of baggage that people dislike about X.\n
    \n
    > What percentage of the Linux Desktop universe are you expecting will still be using X at the end of 2025?\n
    \n
    More or less the same that’s using X right now. GNOME, KDE and the various distros will get a bloody nose trying to force Wayland through but if that’s the only way they learn, so be it.\n
    \n
    The Steam Deck actually has one of the few use cases where Wayland actually makes sense, it’s a turnkey, highly controlled stack (both software and hardware) where users don’t have any reasons to care about what’s under the hood. I expect them to switch ASAP.\n
    \n
    Another place where Wayland can be used straightaway is the desktop graphical login screen (which is the original reason it was created for anyway). It’s a singular application with reduced requirements and simplistic interactions.
    """
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    +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
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      Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
      \n
      This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
      \n
      Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
      \n
      ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
      \n
      - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
      - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
      - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
      - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
      \n
      …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
      \n
      In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
      \n
      As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
      \n
      Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
      \n
      And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
      \n
      As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
      \n
      Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
      - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
      - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
      - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
      - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
      - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
      \n
      Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
      - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
      \n
      Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
      - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
      - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
      - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
      - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
      \n
      Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
      \n
      DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
      \n
      Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
      \n
      As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
      - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
      - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
      \n
      Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
      - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
      - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
      - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
      - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
      - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
      - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
      - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
      - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
      - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
      - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
      - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
      \n
      And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
      """
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      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2028
        +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2029 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2012 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2020 …}
        +body: """
          You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
          \n
          Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
          """
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        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-11-19 03:09:37.0 +01:00
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          "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
          "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
        ]
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        -id: 138758
        -bodyTs: "'adopt':44 'better':36 'come':40 'everyth':16 'featur':14 'fine':18 'forc':43 'forgot':2 'happen':28 'let':26 'll':39 'make':47 'natur':29 'need':9 'part':4 'peopl':23,48 'push':22 'readi':34 'reduc':13 'resent':49 'stop':21 'toward':24 'tri':41 'wayland':10,25 'work':17 'xorg':20"
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          date: 2023-11-19 03:09:37.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 138758
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2083
        +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2029 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2082 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2020 …}
        +body: """
          I’m glad Wayland solves problems for you, but it creates them for others.\n
          \n
          Imagine being forced to go the other way. Could you be coerced into going back to Xorg? What would you do if a distro attempted to do that to you?
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
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          date: 2023-11-19 22:21:07.0 +01:00
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          "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
          "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
          "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
        ]
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        -id: 140989
        -bodyTs: "'attempt':39 'back':29 'coerc':26 'could':23 'creat':11 'distro':38 'forc':17 'glad':3 'go':19,28 'imagin':15 'm':2 'other':14 'problem':6 'solv':5 'way':22 'wayland':4 'would':33 'xorg':31"
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          date: 2023-11-19 22:21:07.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 140989
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2086
        +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2029 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2090 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2020 …}
        +body: """
          “Linux” is not an entity with well defined goals, it’s a community that mostly does whatever it wants. That has the fortunate side effect of producing labors of love in software, that prove really useful in the real world. But it also ignores things like user experience, which affect things like the desktop the most.\n
          \n
          On Linux the user is a second-class citizen, because worth in the community is determined by how much a person contributes (in code, testing, artwork, documentation etc.)\n
          \n
          The Linux mindset is best expressed by a quote from Simon Travaglia (which I paraphrase because I don’t remember it verbatim): “We’re tasked with the well-being of the servers, not the users. They’re lucky we even let them log in since users technically *upset* the smooth operation of the servers.”
          """
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          "@theshatterstone54@feddit.uk"
          "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
          "@michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
          "@LeFantome@programming.dev"
        ]
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        -id: 141024
        -bodyTs: "'affect':50 'also':43 'artwork':83 'best':90 'citizen':66 'class':65 'code':81 'communiti':13,71 'contribut':79 'defin':8 'desktop':54 'determin':73 'document':84 'effect':25 'entiti':5 'etc':85 'even':126 'experi':48 'express':91 'fortun':23 'goal':9 'ignor':44 'labor':28 'let':127 'like':46,52 'linux':1,58,87 'log':129 'love':30 'lucki':124 'mindset':88 'most':15 'much':76 'oper':137 'paraphras':100 'person':78 'produc':27 'prove':34 'quot':94 're':109,123 'real':39 'realli':35 'rememb':105 'second':64 'second-class':63 'server':118,140 'side':24 'simon':96 'sinc':131 'smooth':136 'softwar':32 'task':110 'technic':133 'test':82 'thing':45,51 'travaglia':97 'upset':134 'use':36 'user':47,60,121,132 'verbatim':107 'want':19 'well':7,114 'well-b':113 'whatev':17 'world':40 'worth':68"
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          date: 2023-11-19 22:36:06.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 141024
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2330
        +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2029 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2348 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2020 …}
        +body: """
          > You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
          \n
          All I see is a rift in the community over one side pushing software that’s beta-quality at best, and acting very arrogant and dismissive towards real adoption impediments.\n
          \n
          Which is par for the course for Linux, naturally, but “it’s happening” is wishful thinking at this stage. At this rate and with this attitude it will take at least another 5 years.\n
          \n
          Wayland’s worst enemy is its own fans.
          """
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        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-11-19 22:48:05.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@theshatterstone54@feddit.uk"
          "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
          "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
          "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
          "@LeFantome@programming.dev"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2346 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2347 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2344 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2042 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2060 …}
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        -id: 141068
        -bodyTs: "'5':74 'act':33 'adopt':40 'anoth':73 'arrog':35 'attitud':67 'best':31 'beta':28 'beta-qu':27 'communiti':19 'cours':47 'dismiss':37 'enemi':79 'fan':83 'forgot':2 'happen':10,54 'impedi':41 'least':72 'linux':49 'natur':50 'one':21 'par':44 'part':4 'push':23 'qualiti':29 'rate':63 'real':39 'rift':16 'see':13 'side':22 'softwar':24 'stage':60 'take':70 'think':57 'toward':38 'wayland':76 'wish':56 'worst':78 'year':75"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700430485 {#2350
          date: 2023-11-19 22:48:05.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 141068
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2338}
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2296
        +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2029 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2295 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2020 …}
        +body: """
          > but why should AMD, Intel and NVIDIA care about Linux desktop\n
          \n
          They care because it’s free testing for their more lucrative Linux-based products. We’re their lab rats.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-11-20 18:36:50.0 +01:00
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          "@theshatterstone54@feddit.uk"
          "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
          "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
          "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2281 …}
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        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2278 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2279 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2277 …}
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        -id: 143393
        -bodyTs: "'amd':4 'base':25 'care':8,13 'desktop':11 'free':17 'intel':5 'lab':30 'linux':10,24 'linux-bas':23 'lucrat':22 'nvidia':7 'product':26 'rat':31 're':28 'test':18"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://feddit.nl/comment/4735467"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700501810 {#2290
          date: 2023-11-20 18:36:50.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 143393
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    They aren’t facts, again, they’re wishful thinking. I’m a long time contributor and developer and I can assure you that with things as complex as X and Wayland things would move slowly even if everybody was of the same mind, let alone in the “herding cats” style of FOSS.\n
    \n
    Wayland has been in development for 15 years and it’s still not ready – please, it’s not, and stomping our feet and claiming otherwise won’t make it so. Another 5 years will probably see it reach a more stable state.\n
    \n
    What do I mean by ready? Well the desktop stack [on Linux and *NIX] is extremely complex. Whenever you’re dealing with something extremely complex in software, over the years, you amass a large amount of solutions that solve real world problems. That’s what I call “ready”. Most of those solutions will be dealing with quirks and use cases which do not affect everybody equally, but they’re each crucial in their own way to a varying slice of the userbase.\n
    \n
    Whenever you rewrite something from scratch you throw away the bulk of those quirks. It’s a common fallacy for developers to look at the shiny new thing and think that it’s better. In reality it’s worthless without the quirks, and accumulating those quirks all over again takes a long time. X has been accumulating them for 40 years. Wayland is barely scratching the surface.\n
    \n
    The fact the protocol places and splits the burden over the various DE and WM teams will NOT help. We will need libraries that solve the same problem once instead of over and over, and most DE/WM will come to depend on those libraries. The end result will be eerily similar to X. Ironically, by the time Wayland will be done it will have spent a comparable time in development to X, and will have accumulated the same amount of baggage that people dislike about X.\n
    \n
    > What percentage of the Linux Desktop universe are you expecting will still be using X at the end of 2025?\n
    \n
    More or less the same that’s using X right now. GNOME, KDE and the various distros will get a bloody nose trying to force Wayland through but if that’s the only way they learn, so be it.\n
    \n
    The Steam Deck actually has one of the few use cases where Wayland actually makes sense, it’s a turnkey, highly controlled stack (both software and hardware) where users don’t have any reasons to care about what’s under the hood. I expect them to switch ASAP.\n
    \n
    Another place where Wayland can be used straightaway is the desktop graphical login screen (which is the original reason it was created for anyway). It’s a singular application with reduced requirements and simplistic interactions.
    """
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#2338
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    +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
    +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
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    +body: """
      Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
      \n
      This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
      \n
      Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
      \n
      ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
      \n
      - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
      - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
      - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
      - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
      \n
      …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
      \n
      In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
      \n
      As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
      \n
      Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
      \n
      And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
      \n
      As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
      \n
      Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
      - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
      - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
      - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
      - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
      - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
      \n
      Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
      - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
      \n
      Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
      - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
      - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
      - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
      - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
      \n
      Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
      \n
      DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
      \n
      Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
      \n
      As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
      - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
      - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
      \n
      Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
      - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
      - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
      - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
      - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
      - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
      - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
      - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
      - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
      - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
      - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
      - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
      \n
      And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
      """
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      date: 2024-02-17 22:16:50.0 +01:00
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          You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
          \n
          Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
          """
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        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2036 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2144 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2061 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2084 …}
        -id: 138758
        -bodyTs: "'adopt':44 'better':36 'come':40 'everyth':16 'featur':14 'fine':18 'forc':43 'forgot':2 'happen':28 'let':26 'll':39 'make':47 'natur':29 'need':9 'part':4 'peopl':23,48 'push':22 'readi':34 'reduc':13 'resent':49 'stop':21 'toward':24 'tri':41 'wayland':10,25 'work':17 'xorg':20"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.nl/comment/4697578"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700359777 {#2021
          date: 2023-11-19 03:09:37.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 138758
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2083
        +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2029 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2082 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2020 …}
        +body: """
          I’m glad Wayland solves problems for you, but it creates them for others.\n
          \n
          Imagine being forced to go the other way. Could you be coerced into going back to Xorg? What would you do if a distro attempted to do that to you?
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1700428867 {#2076
          date: 2023-11-19 22:21:07.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@theshatterstone54@feddit.uk"
          "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
          "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
          "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2085 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2062 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2077 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2063 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2064 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2088 …}
        -id: 140989
        -bodyTs: "'attempt':39 'back':29 'coerc':26 'could':23 'creat':11 'distro':38 'forc':17 'glad':3 'go':19,28 'imagin':15 'm':2 'other':14 'problem':6 'solv':5 'way':22 'wayland':4 'would':33 'xorg':31"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700428867 {#2097
          date: 2023-11-19 22:21:07.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 140989
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2086
        +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2029 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2090 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2020 …}
        +body: """
          “Linux” is not an entity with well defined goals, it’s a community that mostly does whatever it wants. That has the fortunate side effect of producing labors of love in software, that prove really useful in the real world. But it also ignores things like user experience, which affect things like the desktop the most.\n
          \n
          On Linux the user is a second-class citizen, because worth in the community is determined by how much a person contributes (in code, testing, artwork, documentation etc.)\n
          \n
          The Linux mindset is best expressed by a quote from Simon Travaglia (which I paraphrase because I don’t remember it verbatim): “We’re tasked with the well-being of the servers, not the users. They’re lucky we even let them log in since users technically *upset* the smooth operation of the servers.”
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1700429766 {#2087
          date: 2023-11-19 22:36:06.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@theshatterstone54@feddit.uk"
          "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
          "@michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
          "@LeFantome@programming.dev"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2093 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2094 …}
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        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2131 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2138 …}
        -id: 141024
        -bodyTs: "'affect':50 'also':43 'artwork':83 'best':90 'citizen':66 'class':65 'code':81 'communiti':13,71 'contribut':79 'defin':8 'desktop':54 'determin':73 'document':84 'effect':25 'entiti':5 'etc':85 'even':126 'experi':48 'express':91 'fortun':23 'goal':9 'ignor':44 'labor':28 'let':127 'like':46,52 'linux':1,58,87 'log':129 'love':30 'lucki':124 'mindset':88 'most':15 'much':76 'oper':137 'paraphras':100 'person':78 'produc':27 'prove':34 'quot':94 're':109,123 'real':39 'realli':35 'rememb':105 'second':64 'second-class':63 'server':118,140 'side':24 'simon':96 'sinc':131 'smooth':136 'softwar':32 'task':110 'technic':133 'test':82 'thing':45,51 'travaglia':97 'upset':134 'use':36 'user':47,60,121,132 'verbatim':107 'want':19 'well':7,114 'well-b':113 'whatev':17 'world':40 'worth':68"
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        +apId: "https://feddit.nl/comment/4715830"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700429766 {#2091
          date: 2023-11-19 22:36:06.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 141024
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2330
        +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2029 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2348 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2020 …}
        +body: """
          > You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
          \n
          All I see is a rift in the community over one side pushing software that’s beta-quality at best, and acting very arrogant and dismissive towards real adoption impediments.\n
          \n
          Which is par for the course for Linux, naturally, but “it’s happening” is wishful thinking at this stage. At this rate and with this attitude it will take at least another 5 years.\n
          \n
          Wayland’s worst enemy is its own fans.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1700430485 {#2345
          date: 2023-11-19 22:48:05.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@theshatterstone54@feddit.uk"
          "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
          "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
          "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
          "@LeFantome@programming.dev"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2346 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2347 …}
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        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2060 …}
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        -id: 141068
        -bodyTs: "'5':74 'act':33 'adopt':40 'anoth':73 'arrog':35 'attitud':67 'best':31 'beta':28 'beta-qu':27 'communiti':19 'cours':47 'dismiss':37 'enemi':79 'fan':83 'forgot':2 'happen':10,54 'impedi':41 'least':72 'linux':49 'natur':50 'one':21 'par':44 'part':4 'push':23 'qualiti':29 'rate':63 'real':39 'rift':16 'see':13 'side':22 'softwar':24 'stage':60 'take':70 'think':57 'toward':38 'wayland':76 'wish':56 'worst':78 'year':75"
        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700430485 {#2350
          date: 2023-11-19 22:48:05.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 141068
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2338}
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2296
        +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2029 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2295 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2020 …}
        +body: """
          > but why should AMD, Intel and NVIDIA care about Linux desktop\n
          \n
          They care because it’s free testing for their more lucrative Linux-based products. We’re their lab rats.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1700501810 {#2294
          date: 2023-11-20 18:36:50.0 +01:00
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        +ip: null
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        +mentions: [
          "@theshatterstone54@feddit.uk"
          "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
          "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
          "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2281 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2280 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2278 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2279 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2277 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2220 …}
        -id: 143393
        -bodyTs: "'amd':4 'base':25 'care':8,13 'desktop':11 'free':17 'intel':5 'lab':30 'linux':10,24 'linux-bas':23 'lucrat':22 'nvidia':7 'product':26 'rat':31 're':28 'test':18"
        +ranking: 0
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700501810 {#2290
          date: 2023-11-20 18:36:50.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 143393
      }
    ]
    -id: 13812
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'consid':752,1068 'control':862 'convinc':33 'cooler':1517 'correct':366,783,1163,1920,2012 'couldn':642 'cours':1317,1655,1827 'crash':102 'cross':1136 'cruft':249 'current':599,1375 'd':1334 'de':299,306 'debian':436,575 'decid':387 'decor':1204 'default':433 'defenc':413 'deni':1065 'depend':1280 'des':1380,1403 'describ':1295 'design':100,920 'desktop':625,1968 'dev':416,1441,1491 'develop':144,259,591 'differ':278 'difficulti':1264 'disabl':1752 'discuss':1267 'doc':1592 'doesn':301,312,702,845,956,1649 'driver':1027,1071 'drm':1902 'drop':766,1456 'drop-in':1455 'dwl':1451 'dwm':1445 'edit':1102,1177,1577,1680 'effici':235 'effort':73 'either':393,1416 'els':963,1887 'enforc':587 'enlighten':1410 'enough':399,427,1770 'especi':851 'even':434,1383,1413 'everi':709 'evid':2017 'evidenc':1510 'exist':708,1513 'face':681 'fact':1343,1580 'fade':1549 'fair':1983 'fallback':827 'familiar':1907,1933 'fan':27 'far':965 'featur':318,331,1402 'fedora':762 'file':1969 'fit':177,1809 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      date: 2023-11-20 18:44:08.0 +01:00
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  +body: """
    They aren’t facts, again, they’re wishful thinking. I’m a long time contributor and developer and I can assure you that with things as complex as X and Wayland things would move slowly even if everybody was of the same mind, let alone in the “herding cats” style of FOSS.\n
    \n
    Wayland has been in development for 15 years and it’s still not ready – please, it’s not, and stomping our feet and claiming otherwise won’t make it so. Another 5 years will probably see it reach a more stable state.\n
    \n
    What do I mean by ready? Well the desktop stack [on Linux and *NIX] is extremely complex. Whenever you’re dealing with something extremely complex in software, over the years, you amass a large amount of solutions that solve real world problems. That’s what I call “ready”. Most of those solutions will be dealing with quirks and use cases which do not affect everybody equally, but they’re each crucial in their own way to a varying slice of the userbase.\n
    \n
    Whenever you rewrite something from scratch you throw away the bulk of those quirks. It’s a common fallacy for developers to look at the shiny new thing and think that it’s better. In reality it’s worthless without the quirks, and accumulating those quirks all over again takes a long time. X has been accumulating them for 40 years. Wayland is barely scratching the surface.\n
    \n
    The fact the protocol places and splits the burden over the various DE and WM teams will NOT help. We will need libraries that solve the same problem once instead of over and over, and most DE/WM will come to depend on those libraries. The end result will be eerily similar to X. Ironically, by the time Wayland will be done it will have spent a comparable time in development to X, and will have accumulated the same amount of baggage that people dislike about X.\n
    \n
    > What percentage of the Linux Desktop universe are you expecting will still be using X at the end of 2025?\n
    \n
    More or less the same that’s using X right now. GNOME, KDE and the various distros will get a bloody nose trying to force Wayland through but if that’s the only way they learn, so be it.\n
    \n
    The Steam Deck actually has one of the few use cases where Wayland actually makes sense, it’s a turnkey, highly controlled stack (both software and hardware) where users don’t have any reasons to care about what’s under the hood. I expect them to switch ASAP.\n
    \n
    Another place where Wayland can be used straightaway is the desktop graphical login screen (which is the original reason it was created for anyway). It’s a singular application with reduced requirements and simplistic interactions.
    """
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#2296
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    +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
    +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
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    +body: """
      Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
      \n
      This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
      \n
      Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
      \n
      ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
      \n
      - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
      - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
      - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
      - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
      \n
      …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
      \n
      In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
      \n
      As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
      \n
      Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
      \n
      And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
      \n
      As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
      \n
      Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
      - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
      - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
      - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
      - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
      - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
      \n
      Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
      - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
      \n
      Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
      - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
      - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
      - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
      - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
      \n
      Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
      \n
      DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
      \n
      Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
      \n
      As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
      - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
      - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
      \n
      Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
      - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
      - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
      - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
      - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
      - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
      - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
      - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
      - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
      - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
      - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
      - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
      \n
      And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
      """
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        +body: """
          You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
          \n
          Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
          """
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        +body: """
          I’m glad Wayland solves problems for you, but it creates them for others.\n
          \n
          Imagine being forced to go the other way. Could you be coerced into going back to Xorg? What would you do if a distro attempted to do that to you?
          """
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          “Linux” is not an entity with well defined goals, it’s a community that mostly does whatever it wants. That has the fortunate side effect of producing labors of love in software, that prove really useful in the real world. But it also ignores things like user experience, which affect things like the desktop the most.\n
          \n
          On Linux the user is a second-class citizen, because worth in the community is determined by how much a person contributes (in code, testing, artwork, documentation etc.)\n
          \n
          The Linux mindset is best expressed by a quote from Simon Travaglia (which I paraphrase because I don’t remember it verbatim): “We’re tasked with the well-being of the servers, not the users. They’re lucky we even let them log in since users technically *upset* the smooth operation of the servers.”
          """
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          "@michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
          "@LeFantome@programming.dev"
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          date: 2023-11-19 22:36:06.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 141024
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2330
        +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2029 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
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        +body: """
          > You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
          \n
          All I see is a rift in the community over one side pushing software that’s beta-quality at best, and acting very arrogant and dismissive towards real adoption impediments.\n
          \n
          Which is par for the course for Linux, naturally, but “it’s happening” is wishful thinking at this stage. At this rate and with this attitude it will take at least another 5 years.\n
          \n
          Wayland’s worst enemy is its own fans.
          """
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2338
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        +body: """
          They aren’t facts, again, they’re wishful thinking. I’m a long time contributor and developer and I can assure you that with things as complex as X and Wayland things would move slowly even if everybody was of the same mind, let alone in the “herding cats” style of FOSS.\n
          \n
          Wayland has been in development for 15 years and it’s still not ready – please, it’s not, and stomping our feet and claiming otherwise won’t make it so. Another 5 years will probably see it reach a more stable state.\n
          \n
          What do I mean by ready? Well the desktop stack [on Linux and *NIX] is extremely complex. Whenever you’re dealing with something extremely complex in software, over the years, you amass a large amount of solutions that solve real world problems. That’s what I call “ready”. Most of those solutions will be dealing with quirks and use cases which do not affect everybody equally, but they’re each crucial in their own way to a varying slice of the userbase.\n
          \n
          Whenever you rewrite something from scratch you throw away the bulk of those quirks. It’s a common fallacy for developers to look at the shiny new thing and think that it’s better. In reality it’s worthless without the quirks, and accumulating those quirks all over again takes a long time. X has been accumulating them for 40 years. Wayland is barely scratching the surface.\n
          \n
          The fact the protocol places and splits the burden over the various DE and WM teams will NOT help. We will need libraries that solve the same problem once instead of over and over, and most DE/WM will come to depend on those libraries. The end result will be eerily similar to X. Ironically, by the time Wayland will be done it will have spent a comparable time in development to X, and will have accumulated the same amount of baggage that people dislike about X.\n
          \n
          > What percentage of the Linux Desktop universe are you expecting will still be using X at the end of 2025?\n
          \n
          More or less the same that’s using X right now. GNOME, KDE and the various distros will get a bloody nose trying to force Wayland through but if that’s the only way they learn, so be it.\n
          \n
          The Steam Deck actually has one of the few use cases where Wayland actually makes sense, it’s a turnkey, highly controlled stack (both software and hardware) where users don’t have any reasons to care about what’s under the hood. I expect them to switch ASAP.\n
          \n
          Another place where Wayland can be used straightaway is the desktop graphical login screen (which is the original reason it was created for anyway). It’s a singular application with reduced requirements and simplistic interactions.
          """
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      date: 2023-11-20 18:44:08.0 +01:00
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  +body: """
    > but why should AMD, Intel and NVIDIA care about Linux desktop\n
    \n
    They care because it’s free testing for their more lucrative Linux-based products. We’re their lab rats.
    """
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87 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2296
  +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
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    +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
    +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
    +url: null
    +body: """
      Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
      \n
      This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
      \n
      Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
      \n
      ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
      \n
      - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
      - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
      - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
      - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
      \n
      …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
      \n
      In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
      \n
      As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
      \n
      Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
      \n
      And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
      \n
      As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
      \n
      Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
      - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
      - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
      - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
      - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
      - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
      \n
      Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
      - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
      \n
      Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
      - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
      - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
      - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
      - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
      \n
      Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
      \n
      DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
      \n
      Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
      \n
      As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
      - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
      - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
      \n
      Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
      - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
      - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
      - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
      - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
      - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
      - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
      - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
      - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
      - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
      - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
      - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
      \n
      And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
      """
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      date: 2024-02-17 22:16:50.0 +01:00
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        +body: """
          You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
          \n
          Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
          """
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700359777 {#2021
          date: 2023-11-19 03:09:37.0 +01:00
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        +body: """
          I’m glad Wayland solves problems for you, but it creates them for others.\n
          \n
          Imagine being forced to go the other way. Could you be coerced into going back to Xorg? What would you do if a distro attempted to do that to you?
          """
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          “Linux” is not an entity with well defined goals, it’s a community that mostly does whatever it wants. That has the fortunate side effect of producing labors of love in software, that prove really useful in the real world. But it also ignores things like user experience, which affect things like the desktop the most.\n
          \n
          On Linux the user is a second-class citizen, because worth in the community is determined by how much a person contributes (in code, testing, artwork, documentation etc.)\n
          \n
          The Linux mindset is best expressed by a quote from Simon Travaglia (which I paraphrase because I don’t remember it verbatim): “We’re tasked with the well-being of the servers, not the users. They’re lucky we even let them log in since users technically *upset* the smooth operation of the servers.”
          """
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          "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
          "@michaelmrose@lemmy.world"
          "@LeFantome@programming.dev"
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          date: 2023-11-19 22:36:06.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 141024
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2330
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        +body: """
          > You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
          \n
          All I see is a rift in the community over one side pushing software that’s beta-quality at best, and acting very arrogant and dismissive towards real adoption impediments.\n
          \n
          Which is par for the course for Linux, naturally, but “it’s happening” is wishful thinking at this stage. At this rate and with this attitude it will take at least another 5 years.\n
          \n
          Wayland’s worst enemy is its own fans.
          """
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          "@LeFantome@programming.dev"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700430485 {#2350
          date: 2023-11-19 22:48:05.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 141068
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2338
        +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2029 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
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        +body: """
          They aren’t facts, again, they’re wishful thinking. I’m a long time contributor and developer and I can assure you that with things as complex as X and Wayland things would move slowly even if everybody was of the same mind, let alone in the “herding cats” style of FOSS.\n
          \n
          Wayland has been in development for 15 years and it’s still not ready – please, it’s not, and stomping our feet and claiming otherwise won’t make it so. Another 5 years will probably see it reach a more stable state.\n
          \n
          What do I mean by ready? Well the desktop stack [on Linux and *NIX] is extremely complex. Whenever you’re dealing with something extremely complex in software, over the years, you amass a large amount of solutions that solve real world problems. That’s what I call “ready”. Most of those solutions will be dealing with quirks and use cases which do not affect everybody equally, but they’re each crucial in their own way to a varying slice of the userbase.\n
          \n
          Whenever you rewrite something from scratch you throw away the bulk of those quirks. It’s a common fallacy for developers to look at the shiny new thing and think that it’s better. In reality it’s worthless without the quirks, and accumulating those quirks all over again takes a long time. X has been accumulating them for 40 years. Wayland is barely scratching the surface.\n
          \n
          The fact the protocol places and splits the burden over the various DE and WM teams will NOT help. We will need libraries that solve the same problem once instead of over and over, and most DE/WM will come to depend on those libraries. The end result will be eerily similar to X. Ironically, by the time Wayland will be done it will have spent a comparable time in development to X, and will have accumulated the same amount of baggage that people dislike about X.\n
          \n
          > What percentage of the Linux Desktop universe are you expecting will still be using X at the end of 2025?\n
          \n
          More or less the same that’s using X right now. GNOME, KDE and the various distros will get a bloody nose trying to force Wayland through but if that’s the only way they learn, so be it.\n
          \n
          The Steam Deck actually has one of the few use cases where Wayland actually makes sense, it’s a turnkey, highly controlled stack (both software and hardware) where users don’t have any reasons to care about what’s under the hood. I expect them to switch ASAP.\n
          \n
          Another place where Wayland can be used straightaway is the desktop graphical login screen (which is the original reason it was created for anyway). It’s a singular application with reduced requirements and simplistic interactions.
          """
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          "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
          "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2296}
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    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1700305796
    +visibility: "visible             "
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    +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700502248 {#2892
      date: 2023-11-20 18:44:08.0 +01:00
    }
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     …2
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  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2020 …}
  +body: """
    > but why should AMD, Intel and NVIDIA care about Linux desktop\n
    \n
    They care because it’s free testing for their more lucrative Linux-based products. We’re their lab rats.
    """
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88 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2296
  +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2029
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2981 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
    +image: null
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2938 …}
    +slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
    +title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
    +url: null
    +body: """
      Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
      \n
      This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
      \n
      Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
      \n
      ##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
      \n
      - *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
      - *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
      - *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
      - *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
      \n
      …*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
      \n
      In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
      \n
      As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
      \n
      Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
      \n
      And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
      \n
      As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
      \n
      Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
      - *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
      - *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
      - *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
      - *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
      - *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
      \n
      Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
      - *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
      \n
      Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
      - *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
      - *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
      - *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
      - *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
      \n
      Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
      \n
      DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
      \n
      Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
      \n
      As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
      - *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
      - *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
      \n
      Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
      \n
      - *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
      - *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
      - *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
      - *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
      - *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
      - *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
      - *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
      - *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
      - *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
      - *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
      - *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
      - *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
      \n
      And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
      """
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        +body: """
          You forgot the part where they don’t need Wayland and its reduced features, because everything works fine in Xorg.\n
          \n
          Stop pushing people towards Wayland, let it happen naturally when it will be ready and better, and they’ll come. Trying to force adoption will just make people resent it.
          """
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        +body: """
          I’m glad Wayland solves problems for you, but it creates them for others.\n
          \n
          Imagine being forced to go the other way. Could you be coerced into going back to Xorg? What would you do if a distro attempted to do that to you?
          """
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        +body: """
          “Linux” is not an entity with well defined goals, it’s a community that mostly does whatever it wants. That has the fortunate side effect of producing labors of love in software, that prove really useful in the real world. But it also ignores things like user experience, which affect things like the desktop the most.\n
          \n
          On Linux the user is a second-class citizen, because worth in the community is determined by how much a person contributes (in code, testing, artwork, documentation etc.)\n
          \n
          The Linux mindset is best expressed by a quote from Simon Travaglia (which I paraphrase because I don’t remember it verbatim): “We’re tasked with the well-being of the servers, not the users. They’re lucky we even let them log in since users technically *upset* the smooth operation of the servers.”
          """
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          > You forgot the part where this is what is happening.\n
          \n
          All I see is a rift in the community over one side pushing software that’s beta-quality at best, and acting very arrogant and dismissive towards real adoption impediments.\n
          \n
          Which is par for the course for Linux, naturally, but “it’s happening” is wishful thinking at this stage. At this rate and with this attitude it will take at least another 5 years.\n
          \n
          Wayland’s worst enemy is its own fans.
          """
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        +body: """
          They aren’t facts, again, they’re wishful thinking. I’m a long time contributor and developer and I can assure you that with things as complex as X and Wayland things would move slowly even if everybody was of the same mind, let alone in the “herding cats” style of FOSS.\n
          \n
          Wayland has been in development for 15 years and it’s still not ready – please, it’s not, and stomping our feet and claiming otherwise won’t make it so. Another 5 years will probably see it reach a more stable state.\n
          \n
          What do I mean by ready? Well the desktop stack [on Linux and *NIX] is extremely complex. Whenever you’re dealing with something extremely complex in software, over the years, you amass a large amount of solutions that solve real world problems. That’s what I call “ready”. Most of those solutions will be dealing with quirks and use cases which do not affect everybody equally, but they’re each crucial in their own way to a varying slice of the userbase.\n
          \n
          Whenever you rewrite something from scratch you throw away the bulk of those quirks. It’s a common fallacy for developers to look at the shiny new thing and think that it’s better. In reality it’s worthless without the quirks, and accumulating those quirks all over again takes a long time. X has been accumulating them for 40 years. Wayland is barely scratching the surface.\n
          \n
          The fact the protocol places and splits the burden over the various DE and WM teams will NOT help. We will need libraries that solve the same problem once instead of over and over, and most DE/WM will come to depend on those libraries. The end result will be eerily similar to X. Ironically, by the time Wayland will be done it will have spent a comparable time in development to X, and will have accumulated the same amount of baggage that people dislike about X.\n
          \n
          > What percentage of the Linux Desktop universe are you expecting will still be using X at the end of 2025?\n
          \n
          More or less the same that’s using X right now. GNOME, KDE and the various distros will get a bloody nose trying to force Wayland through but if that’s the only way they learn, so be it.\n
          \n
          The Steam Deck actually has one of the few use cases where Wayland actually makes sense, it’s a turnkey, highly controlled stack (both software and hardware) where users don’t have any reasons to care about what’s under the hood. I expect them to switch ASAP.\n
          \n
          Another place where Wayland can be used straightaway is the desktop graphical login screen (which is the original reason it was created for anyway). It’s a singular application with reduced requirements and simplistic interactions.
          """
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        -bodyTs: "'15':59 '2025':349 '40':236 '5':84 'accumul':220,233,319 'actual':392,402 'affect':158 'alon':45 'amass':126 'amount':129,322 'anoth':83,437 'anyway':460 'applic':465 'aren':2 'asap':436 'assur':21 'away':185 'baggag':324 'bare':240 'better':210 'bloodi':370 'bulk':187 'burden':252 'call':141 'care':424 'case':154,399 'cat':49 'claim':76 'come':282 'common':194 'compar':310 'complex':27,111,119 'contributor':15 'control':410 'creat':458 'crucial':165 'de':256 'de/wm':280 'deal':115,149 'deck':391 'depend':284 'desktop':103,335,447 'develop':17,57,197,313 'dislik':327 'distro':366 'done':304 'eerili':293 'end':289,347 'equal':160 'even':36 'everybodi':38,159 'expect':339,432 'extrem':110,118 'fact':4,245 'fallaci':195 'feet':74 'forc':374 'foss':52 'get':368 'gnome':361 'graphic':448 'hardwar':415 'help':262 'herd':48 'high':409 'hood':430 'instead':273 'interact':471 'iron':297 'kde':362 'larg':128 'learn':385 'less':352 'let':44 'librari':266,287 'linux':106,334 'login':449 'long':13,228 'look':199 'm':11 'make':80,403 'mean':98 'mind':43 'move':34 'need':265 'new':203 'nix':108 'nose':371 'one':394 'origin':454 'otherwis':77 'peopl':326 'percentag':331 'place':248,438 'pleas':67 'probabl':87 'problem':136,271 'protocol':247 'quirk':151,190,218,222 're':7,114,163 'reach':90 'readi':66,100,142 'real':134 'realiti':212 'reason':422,455 'reduc':467 'requir':468 'result':290 'rewrit':179 'right':359 'scratch':182,241 'screen':450 'see':88 'sens':404 'shini':202 'similar':294 'simplist':470 'singular':464 'slice':173 'slowli':35 'softwar':121,413 'solut':131,146 'solv':133,268 'someth':117,180 'spent':308 'split':250 'stabl':93 'stack':104,411 'state':94 'steam':390 'still':64,341 'stomp':72 'straightaway':444 'style':50 'surfac':243 'switch':435 'take':226 'team':259 'thing':25,32,204 'think':9,206 'throw':184 'time':14,229,300,311 'tri':372 'turnkey':408 'univers':336 'use':153,343,357,398,443 'user':417 'userbas':176 'vari':172 'various':255,365 'way':169,383 'wayland':31,53,238,301,375,401,440 'well':101 'whenev':112,177 'wish':8 'without':216 'wm':258 'won':78 'world':135 'worthless':215 'would':33 'x':29,230,296,315,329,344,358 'year':60,85,124,237"
        +ranking: 0
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        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://feddit.nl/comment/4726542"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700469815 {#2339
          date: 2023-11-20 09:43:35.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 142343
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2296}
    ]
    -id: 13812
    -titleTs: "'articl':7 'boycott':5 'respons':2 'wayland':6"
    -bodyTs: "'-1':1800 '/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227':5 '/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)':1605 '/etc/os-release':571 '/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)':8 '/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)':996 '/usr/bin/wayland':152 '1':300,731,1798 '10':410 '2':307,734,1463 '2019':1257 '2024':981 '3':723 '4.20':984 '8':1625 '99':1748 'abandon':50 'absolut':147 'activ':1897 'adjust':883 'admit':1142 'agenda':1220 'allow':136,918,929 'alot':464 'alreadi':1427,1506 'also':239,808,993,1692,1760 'altern':895,1331,1347,1693 'alway':847 'amd':1035,1058 'announc':1417 'anymor':1893 'anyth':264,648,1886,1992 'anywher':962 'ao':1568 'api':618 'app':1846 'appar':1020 'appimag':665,791,818 'applic':111,258,270,365,371,446,460,526,602,685,699,863,950,1127,1646,1824 'appreci':2020 'arbirtrari':606 'argument':1155,1742 'articl':3,11,92,518,661,812,869,1140,1223,1372,1535,1918,1965,1979 'askpass':1703 'assum':775,1097,1571,1736,1883,1938 'atom':1727 'attempt':1508 'autom':675 'automat':826 'avoid':179 'awar':450 'away':1550 'awesom':1490 'awesomewm':1483 'back':503,976,2014 'backend':473 'base':1980 'basic':1587 'becom':425,1777 'better':1766,1768,1778 'bias':1149 'biggest':1477 'bill':1811 'boom':951 'bother':645 'break':362,523,674,790,836,899,1153,1232,1276,1289,1298,1554,1607,1635,1701,1725,1744,1785,1815,1855,1865,1889,1901,1927,1941,1951 'brodi':505 'broken':98,1585 'bsd':1154 'budgi':1409 'built':58,374,842 'bunch':163 'busi':395 'bwing':74 'call':1450,1459,1466 'cannot':128 'case':1576,1863,1949,1960 'challeng':1503 'chang':266,470,570,1593 'choos':941 'cinnamon':1408 'clear':562,566 'clipboard':1699 'close':1240 'closer':1009 'code':1396 'color':885,1890 'colour':860 'come':404,975 'comment':559,1112,1689 'compar':1781 'complet':768 'complex':1391 'complic':1201 'compon':84 'compositor':115,122,213,244,279,339,857,1186,1923 'conclud':1974 'confirm':1063 'consid':752,1068 'control':862 'convinc':33 'cooler':1517 'correct':366,783,1163,1920,2012 'couldn':642 'cours':1317,1655,1827 'crash':102 'cross':1136 'cruft':249 'current':599,1375 'd':1334 'de':299,306 'debian':436,575 'decid':387 'decor':1204 'default':433 'defenc':413 'deni':1065 'depend':1280 'des':1380,1403 'describ':1295 'design':100,920 'desktop':625,1968 'dev':416,1441,1491 'develop':144,259,591 'differ':278 'difficulti':1264 'disabl':1752 'discuss':1267 'doc':1592 'doesn':301,312,702,845,956,1649 'driver':1027,1071 'drm':1902 'drop':766,1456 'drop-in':1455 'dwl':1451 'dwm':1445 'edit':1102,1177,1577,1680 'effici':235 'effort':73 'either':393,1416 'els':963,1887 'enforc':587 'enlighten':1410 'enough':399,427,1770 'especi':851 'even':434,1383,1413 'everi':709 'evid':2017 'evidenc':1510 'exist':708,1513 'face':681 'fact':1343,1580 'fade':1549 'fair':1983 'fallback':827 'familiar':1907,1933 'fan':27 'far':965 'featur':318,331,1402 'fedora':762 'file':1969 'fit':177,1809 'fix':781,1101,1260,1274 'follow':368,1265 'forese':1175 'freebsd':26,68,1188 'full':18 'function':1366 'futur':1176 'game':1745 'gamer':1759 'gammastep':897 'gave':481 'get':12,910,1008,1765 'gist.github.com':4,7 'gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)':6 'github.com':1604 'github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)':1603 'given':1388 'global':729,743,900,911 'gnome':286,543,615,651,726,733,1219,1404 'go':89 'got':1991 'graphic':472 'great':800 'guess':1161,1335,1629 'gui':1126 'guy':22 'happen':342,1670,1674 'hardwar':1004,1053,1123 'heard':710,1019,1078,1209 'hire':1439 'home':1930 'hope':1772 'hotkey':901,912 'howev':329,813 'hyprland':509,906,926 'i3':1452 'icewm':1539 'icon':1953 'ignor':1578 'implement':167,214,221,317,336,935,961,1362 'improv':1082 'in-hom':1928 'incred':757 'instert':1358 'integr':227 'intel':1052,1070,1086,1105,1122 'intend':1384 'introduc':987 'irrespons':398 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'qt':798 'qtile':1432 'quit':491,520,2006 'quot':809,870,1370 'raising/activating':1234 'randr':294,1351 're':1294,1665,1794 'read':556,626 'readi':349 'realis':401 'realli':262 'reason':51,1095,1833 'recent':1412 'record':364,370,512 'redshift':837,872,894 'releas':992,1622 'remain':1171 'rememb':713,1835 'replac':1458,1801 'requir':468,1357,1397 'rescuetim':1277,1279 'resolv':1245,1716 'respons':1976 'restrict':607,633 'rhat':1906 'robertson':506 'root':1131 'rumour':1042 'run':110,222,829,1129 'safe':773 'said':1493,1639,1962 'screen':363,369,524 'screensav':1856 'screenshar':609 'secur':923 'see':139,176,833,1721,2002 'seem':539,958,1114,1156,1181,1242,1520,1706,1859,1945,1956 'server':118,1202 'set':158,1866 'setter':867 'shame':1488 'share':525 'sheer':1390 'ship':795,802,820 'show':530 'side':1087,1203 'simultan':223 'sinc':877 'sire':463 'skip':1558 'skiptaskbar':1595 'small':1543 'smaller':479 'softwar':327,676 'solut':328,346,937,1146 'solv':807,953,1621,1633 'someon':1499 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've':1018,1077,1208 'version':1624 'video':514 'vsync':1753 'wallpap':866 'want':43,419,1437 'way':217,881,1516,1711 'way-cool':1515 'waybox':1469 'wayland':56,96,155,273,361,377,379,402,423,489,522,536,624,673,692,760,789,835,850,876,898,969,988,997,1046,1120,1124,1147,1185,1200,1231,1275,1288,1297,1323,1356,1387,1429,1553,1606,1634,1653,1661,1663,1700,1724,1743,1763,1784,1814,1840,1854,1864,1888,1900,1926,1940,1950 'well':226,750,1031,1787,1817 'wiki.xfce.org':995 'wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)':994 'window':105,119,137,196,230,1233,1290,1309,1430,1868,1952 'wine':1761 'wip':1252,1873 'without':69 'wl':1698 'wl-clipboard':1697 'wlr':293,1350 'wlr-randr':292,1349 'wlroot':290,1355 'wm':1359,1556 'wms':1378,1478 'work':66,193,271,276,297,304,466,487,534,541,578,613,621,687,848,854,972,1000,1030,1040,1049,1321,1420,1424,1651,1659,1837,1898 'workaround':817 'woukd':1259 'would':64,1093,1495,2018 'wouldn':260,1523,1657 'write':1393 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    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
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    +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700502248 {#2892
      date: 2023-11-20 18:44:08.0 +01:00
    }
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700219396 {#2764
      date: 2023-11-17 12:09:56.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2295 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2020 …}
  +body: """
    > but why should AMD, Intel and NVIDIA care about Linux desktop\n
    \n
    They care because it’s free testing for their more lucrative Linux-based products. We’re their lab rats.
    """
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    "@JakenVeina@lemm.ee"
    "@lukas@lemmy.haigner.me"
    "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2281 …}
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  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2279 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2277 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2220 …}
  -id: 143393
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  +"title": 143393
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
89 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
90 DENIED moderate 
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1363
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#3040 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1596 …}
  +image: null
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2938 …}
  +slug: "Has-anyone-had-any-luck-with-Dodi-repacks-on-Linux"
  +title: "Has anyone had any luck with Dodi repacks on Linux ?"
  +url: null
  +body: """
    So I downloaded Dodi’s Sekiro repack and installed it through bottles, but the game does not launch.\n
    \n
    Also tried adding the exe file to Heroic, gave me the same result as Bottles.\n
    \n
    On windows, I remember this exact repack working perfectly. So maybe they way I installed it in Linux is causing the issue ?
    """
  +type: "article"
  +lang: "en"
  +isOc: false
  +hasEmbed: false
  +commentCount: 14
  +favouriteCount: 56
  +score: 0
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  +sticky: false
  +lastActive: DateTime @1700316823 {#3071
    date: 2023-11-18 15:13:43.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +adaAmount: 0
  +tags: null
  +mentions: null
  +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3076 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3079 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3081 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3083 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3085 …}
  +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3087 …}
  +children: [
    App\Entity\EntryComment {#1404
      +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1363 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1596 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1361 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1361 …}
      +body: "What are the dependencies? I always have trouble figuring those out. It could be any obscure combination of stuff to install, with specific versions. Yeah bottles makes it easy to install them but what’s the use of you don’t know which."
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 0
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1700289472 {#1382
        date: 2023-11-18 07:37:52.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@gunpachi@lemmings.world"
        "@plague_sapiens@lemmy.world"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1362 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2019 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2030 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2026 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2022 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2025 …}
      -id: 136194
      -bodyTs: "'alway':6 'bottl':26 'combin':17 'could':13 'depend':4 'easi':29 'figur':9 'instal':21,31 'know':42 'make':27 'obscur':16 'specif':23 'stuff':19 'troubl':8 'use':37 'version':24 'yeah':25"
      +ranking: 0
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      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://feddit.nl/comment/4675691"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700289472 {#1401
        date: 2023-11-18 07:37:52.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 136194
    }
  ]
  -id: 13806
  -titleTs: "'anyon':2 'dodi':7 'linux':10 'luck':5 'repack':8"
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  +ranking: 1700300958
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  +apId: "https://lemmings.world/post/2910464"
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
91 DENIED edit 
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    So I downloaded Dodi’s Sekiro repack and installed it through bottles, but the game does not launch.\n
    \n
    Also tried adding the exe file to Heroic, gave me the same result as Bottles.\n
    \n
    On windows, I remember this exact repack working perfectly. So maybe they way I installed it in Linux is causing the issue ?
    """
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  -id: 13806
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   …2
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
92 DENIED moderate 
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1363
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    So I downloaded Dodi’s Sekiro repack and installed it through bottles, but the game does not launch.\n
    \n
    Also tried adding the exe file to Heroic, gave me the same result as Bottles.\n
    \n
    On windows, I remember this exact repack working perfectly. So maybe they way I installed it in Linux is causing the issue ?
    """
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   …2
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
93 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
94 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1404
  +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1363
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      \n
      Also tried adding the exe file to Heroic, gave me the same result as Bottles.\n
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      On windows, I remember this exact repack working perfectly. So maybe they way I installed it in Linux is causing the issue ?
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     …2
  }
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}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
95 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1404
  +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
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      So I downloaded Dodi’s Sekiro repack and installed it through bottles, but the game does not launch.\n
      \n
      Also tried adding the exe file to Heroic, gave me the same result as Bottles.\n
      \n
      On windows, I remember this exact repack working perfectly. So maybe they way I installed it in Linux is causing the issue ?
      """
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    -id: 13806
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    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
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}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
96 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1404
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      So I downloaded Dodi’s Sekiro repack and installed it through bottles, but the game does not launch.\n
      \n
      Also tried adding the exe file to Heroic, gave me the same result as Bottles.\n
      \n
      On windows, I remember this exact repack working perfectly. So maybe they way I installed it in Linux is causing the issue ?
      """
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97 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
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98 DENIED moderate 
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    TNG in particular is egregious for not having bicycles since the NCC-1701 is so cavernous that unless you always used the turbolifts you probably are going to need a bicycle to get anywhere quickly…\n
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99 DENIED edit 
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    I have an issue in general with scifi totally ignoring the existence of bicycles, but star trek is particularly fun to think about since in so many situations beaming down in an away team with electric mountain bicycles would be incredibly useful in a basic utilitarian sense. Like shuttles, bicycles could be treated as disposable if needed, you can always replicate more right?\n
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    You also don’t need to build up any infrastructure on a planet for bicycles to function as transit system for huge amounts of people. A starship could arrive into a humanitarian aid situation, quickly adjust a bicycle blueprint for whatever bipedal humanoid lived on the planet, replicate a metric sh*&ton of alien bicycles and beam them down to the planet on mass. It wouldn’t require longterm maintenance, lengthy training of local aliens on how to use, or return visits to resupply complex parts. A starship could drop bicycles, spare parts and maintenance gear and then leave and the citizens of that planet would be able to benefit from that for… decades? Even more? I am sure the instruction manuals would get super long with all the alien languages though…\n
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    Even if bicycles weren’t being used as tools or transportation in a far future like star trek, there is no reason humans would stop wanting to bicycle recreationally or for exercise. Also you could go on crazy mountain biking rides on the holodeck right? I can’t see how people wouldn’t be doing that all the time along with skiing, surfing and other sports that are scary but exhilarating. Further, I think it is likely most bipedal aliens would have discovered bicycles at some point along the development into advanced technological civilizations. It would be really weird if only humans discovered them.\n
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Show voter details
100 DENIED moderate 
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    I have an issue in general with scifi totally ignoring the existence of bicycles, but star trek is particularly fun to think about since in so many situations beaming down in an away team with electric mountain bicycles would be incredibly useful in a basic utilitarian sense. Like shuttles, bicycles could be treated as disposable if needed, you can always replicate more right?\n
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    \n
    Even if bicycles weren’t being used as tools or transportation in a far future like star trek, there is no reason humans would stop wanting to bicycle recreationally or for exercise. Also you could go on crazy mountain biking rides on the holodeck right? I can’t see how people wouldn’t be doing that all the time along with skiing, surfing and other sports that are scary but exhilarating. Further, I think it is likely most bipedal aliens would have discovered bicycles at some point along the development into advanced technological civilizations. It would be really weird if only humans discovered them.\n
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101 DENIED ROLE_USER 
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102 DENIED moderate 
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      I have an issue in general with scifi totally ignoring the existence of bicycles, but star trek is particularly fun to think about since in so many situations beaming down in an away team with electric mountain bicycles would be incredibly useful in a basic utilitarian sense. Like shuttles, bicycles could be treated as disposable if needed, you can always replicate more right?\n
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Show voter details
103 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2385
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    +body: """
      I have an issue in general with scifi totally ignoring the existence of bicycles, but star trek is particularly fun to think about since in so many situations beaming down in an away team with electric mountain bicycles would be incredibly useful in a basic utilitarian sense. Like shuttles, bicycles could be treated as disposable if needed, you can always replicate more right?\n
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      You also don’t need to build up any infrastructure on a planet for bicycles to function as transit system for huge amounts of people. A starship could arrive into a humanitarian aid situation, quickly adjust a bicycle blueprint for whatever bipedal humanoid lived on the planet, replicate a metric sh*&ton of alien bicycles and beam them down to the planet on mass. It wouldn’t require longterm maintenance, lengthy training of local aliens on how to use, or return visits to resupply complex parts. A starship could drop bicycles, spare parts and maintenance gear and then leave and the citizens of that planet would be able to benefit from that for… decades? Even more? I am sure the instruction manuals would get super long with all the alien languages though…\n
      \n
      Even if bicycles weren’t being used as tools or transportation in a far future like star trek, there is no reason humans would stop wanting to bicycle recreationally or for exercise. Also you could go on crazy mountain biking rides on the holodeck right? I can’t see how people wouldn’t be doing that all the time along with skiing, surfing and other sports that are scary but exhilarating. Further, I think it is likely most bipedal aliens would have discovered bicycles at some point along the development into advanced technological civilizations. It would be really weird if only humans discovered them.\n
      \n
      TNG in particular is egregious for not having bicycles since the NCC-1701 is so cavernous that unless you always used the turbolifts you probably are going to need a bicycle to get anywhere quickly…\n
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      What do yall think? Should star trek have more bicycles?
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
104 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2385
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      I have an issue in general with scifi totally ignoring the existence of bicycles, but star trek is particularly fun to think about since in so many situations beaming down in an away team with electric mountain bicycles would be incredibly useful in a basic utilitarian sense. Like shuttles, bicycles could be treated as disposable if needed, you can always replicate more right?\n
      \n
      You also don’t need to build up any infrastructure on a planet for bicycles to function as transit system for huge amounts of people. A starship could arrive into a humanitarian aid situation, quickly adjust a bicycle blueprint for whatever bipedal humanoid lived on the planet, replicate a metric sh*&ton of alien bicycles and beam them down to the planet on mass. It wouldn’t require longterm maintenance, lengthy training of local aliens on how to use, or return visits to resupply complex parts. A starship could drop bicycles, spare parts and maintenance gear and then leave and the citizens of that planet would be able to benefit from that for… decades? Even more? I am sure the instruction manuals would get super long with all the alien languages though…\n
      \n
      Even if bicycles weren’t being used as tools or transportation in a far future like star trek, there is no reason humans would stop wanting to bicycle recreationally or for exercise. Also you could go on crazy mountain biking rides on the holodeck right? I can’t see how people wouldn’t be doing that all the time along with skiing, surfing and other sports that are scary but exhilarating. Further, I think it is likely most bipedal aliens would have discovered bicycles at some point along the development into advanced technological civilizations. It would be really weird if only humans discovered them.\n
      \n
      TNG in particular is egregious for not having bicycles since the NCC-1701 is so cavernous that unless you always used the turbolifts you probably are going to need a bicycle to get anywhere quickly…\n
      \n
      What do yall think? Should star trek have more bicycles?
      """
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    Hi all,\n
    \n
    I’m in the market for a new big desktop replacement gaming laptop, and looking at the market there are almost exclusively Nvidia powered.\n
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        I’ve been using Linux for over 20 years and I don’t get it either. I don’t know why a vocal minority get so fixated on it. It’s not like it’s the only manufacturer with proprietary drivers. As long as the drivers work and are easy to install I don’t see a problem.\n
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        I’ve used ATI/AMD cards equally over the years and I’ve always ended up having more problems overall with them than with Nvidia cards & drivers. If I were inclined to generalize I could say that open source drivers are apparently lower quality, right? 🙂\n
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107 DENIED edit 
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    Hi all,\n
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        I’ve been using Linux for over 20 years and I don’t get it either. I don’t know why a vocal minority get so fixated on it. It’s not like it’s the only manufacturer with proprietary drivers. As long as the drivers work and are easy to install I don’t see a problem.\n
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        But that would be just as silly as the other way around. I don’t think that open or closed drivers, in itself, automatically says anything about quality.\n
        \n
        If closed source drivers really were a problem then Nvidia wouldn’t be used by 80% of Linux gamers.
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Show voter details
108 DENIED moderate 
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  +url: null
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    Hi all,\n
    \n
    I’m in the market for a new big desktop replacement gaming laptop, and looking at the market there are almost exclusively Nvidia powered.\n
    \n
    I was wondering about the state of their new open-source driver. Can I run a plain vanilla kernel with only open source / upstream packages and drivers and expect to get a good experience? How is battery life, performance? Does DRI Prime and Vulkan based GPU selection “just work”?\n
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    The only alternative new for my market is a device with an Intel Arc A730M, which I currently think is going to be the one I end up buying.\n
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    """
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        I’ve been using Linux for over 20 years and I don’t get it either. I don’t know why a vocal minority get so fixated on it. It’s not like it’s the only manufacturer with proprietary drivers. As long as the drivers work and are easy to install I don’t see a problem.\n
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        I’ve used ATI/AMD cards equally over the years and I’ve always ended up having more problems overall with them than with Nvidia cards & drivers. If I were inclined to generalize I could say that open source drivers are apparently lower quality, right? 🙂\n
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        But that would be just as silly as the other way around. I don’t think that open or closed drivers, in itself, automatically says anything about quality.\n
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        If closed source drivers really were a problem then Nvidia wouldn’t be used by 80% of Linux gamers.
        """
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109 DENIED ROLE_USER 
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Show voter details
110 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1599
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      Hi all,\n
      \n
      I’m in the market for a new big desktop replacement gaming laptop, and looking at the market there are almost exclusively Nvidia powered.\n
      \n
      I was wondering about the state of their new open-source driver. Can I run a plain vanilla kernel with only open source / upstream packages and drivers and expect to get a good experience? How is battery life, performance? Does DRI Prime and Vulkan based GPU selection “just work”?\n
      \n
      The only alternative new for my market is a device with an Intel Arc A730M, which I currently think is going to be the one I end up buying.\n
      \n
      **Edit 19/11**: Thanks for all the feedback everyone! Since the reactions were quite mixed - “it works perfectly for me” vs “it’s a unmaintainable mess that breaks all the time”, I’m going to err on the side of caution and look elsewhere. I found a used laptop with an AMD Radeon RX 6700M, which I’m going to check out the coming days. If not, I’ve also found Alienware sells their m16 laptop with an RX 7600M XT, which might be a good buy for me (I currently still rock an Alienware 17R1 from 2013 with an MXM card from a decomissioned industrial computer in it).
      """
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     …2
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    I’ve been using Linux for over 20 years and I don’t get it either. I don’t know why a vocal minority get so fixated on it. It’s not like it’s the only manufacturer with proprietary drivers. As long as the drivers work and are easy to install I don’t see a problem.\n
    \n
    I’ve used ATI/AMD cards equally over the years and I’ve always ended up having more problems overall with them than with Nvidia cards & drivers. If I were inclined to generalize I could say that open source drivers are apparently lower quality, right? 🙂\n
    \n
    But that would be just as silly as the other way around. I don’t think that open or closed drivers, in itself, automatically says anything about quality.\n
    \n
    If closed source drivers really were a problem then Nvidia wouldn’t be used by 80% of Linux gamers.
    """
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}
 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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Show voter details
111 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1599
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      Hi all,\n
      \n
      I’m in the market for a new big desktop replacement gaming laptop, and looking at the market there are almost exclusively Nvidia powered.\n
      \n
      I was wondering about the state of their new open-source driver. Can I run a plain vanilla kernel with only open source / upstream packages and drivers and expect to get a good experience? How is battery life, performance? Does DRI Prime and Vulkan based GPU selection “just work”?\n
      \n
      The only alternative new for my market is a device with an Intel Arc A730M, which I currently think is going to be the one I end up buying.\n
      \n
      **Edit 19/11**: Thanks for all the feedback everyone! Since the reactions were quite mixed - “it works perfectly for me” vs “it’s a unmaintainable mess that breaks all the time”, I’m going to err on the side of caution and look elsewhere. I found a used laptop with an AMD Radeon RX 6700M, which I’m going to check out the coming days. If not, I’ve also found Alienware sells their m16 laptop with an RX 7600M XT, which might be a good buy for me (I currently still rock an Alienware 17R1 from 2013 with an MXM card from a decomissioned industrial computer in it).
      """
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    I’ve been using Linux for over 20 years and I don’t get it either. I don’t know why a vocal minority get so fixated on it. It’s not like it’s the only manufacturer with proprietary drivers. As long as the drivers work and are easy to install I don’t see a problem.\n
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    I’ve used ATI/AMD cards equally over the years and I’ve always ended up having more problems overall with them than with Nvidia cards & drivers. If I were inclined to generalize I could say that open source drivers are apparently lower quality, right? 🙂\n
    \n
    But that would be just as silly as the other way around. I don’t think that open or closed drivers, in itself, automatically says anything about quality.\n
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    If closed source drivers really were a problem then Nvidia wouldn’t be used by 80% of Linux gamers.
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  -bodyTs: "'20':8 '80':146 'alway':71 'anyth':128 'appar':99 'around':114 'ati/amd':62 'automat':126 'card':63,83 'close':122,132 'could':92 'driver':41,46,84,97,123,134 'easi':50 'either':16 'end':72 'equal':64 'fixat':27 'gamer':149 'general':90 'get':14,25 'inclin':88 'instal':52 'know':20 'like':33 'linux':5,148 'long':43 'lower':100 'manufactur':38 'minor':24 'nvidia':82,140 'open':95,120 'overal':77 'problem':58,76,138 'proprietari':40 'qualiti':101,130 'realli':135 'right':102 'say':93,127 'see':56 'silli':109 'sourc':96,133 'think':118 'use':4,61,144 've':2,60,70 'vocal':23 'way':113 'work':47 'would':105 'wouldn':141 'year':9,67"
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    date: 2023-11-19 19:16:42.0 +01:00
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}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
112 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1599
  +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1618
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#3151 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
    +image: null
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2938 …}
    +slug: "State-of-the-Nvidia-open-source-driver-in-late-2023"
    +title: "State of the Nvidia open source driver in late 2023?"
    +url: null
    +body: """
      Hi all,\n
      \n
      I’m in the market for a new big desktop replacement gaming laptop, and looking at the market there are almost exclusively Nvidia powered.\n
      \n
      I was wondering about the state of their new open-source driver. Can I run a plain vanilla kernel with only open source / upstream packages and drivers and expect to get a good experience? How is battery life, performance? Does DRI Prime and Vulkan based GPU selection “just work”?\n
      \n
      The only alternative new for my market is a device with an Intel Arc A730M, which I currently think is going to be the one I end up buying.\n
      \n
      **Edit 19/11**: Thanks for all the feedback everyone! Since the reactions were quite mixed - “it works perfectly for me” vs “it’s a unmaintainable mess that breaks all the time”, I’m going to err on the side of caution and look elsewhere. I found a used laptop with an AMD Radeon RX 6700M, which I’m going to check out the coming days. If not, I’ve also found Alienware sells their m16 laptop with an RX 7600M XT, which might be a good buy for me (I currently still rock an Alienware 17R1 from 2013 with an MXM card from a decomissioned industrial computer in it).
      """
    +type: "article"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: false
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      date: 2023-11-19 18:32:35.0 +01:00
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    +ip: null
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    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3153 …}
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    +children: [
      App\Entity\EntryComment {#1599}
    ]
    -id: 13481
    -titleTs: "'2023':10 'driver':7 'late':9 'nvidia':4 'open':5 'sourc':6 'state':1"
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    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1700212893
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemmy.sdf.org/post/7686599"
    +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700747040 {#3133
      date: 2023-11-23 14:44:00.0 +01:00
    }
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700126493 {#3110
      date: 2023-11-16 10:21:33.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1625 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1625 …}
  +body: """
    I’ve been using Linux for over 20 years and I don’t get it either. I don’t know why a vocal minority get so fixated on it. It’s not like it’s the only manufacturer with proprietary drivers. As long as the drivers work and are easy to install I don’t see a problem.\n
    \n
    I’ve used ATI/AMD cards equally over the years and I’ve always ended up having more problems overall with them than with Nvidia cards & drivers. If I were inclined to generalize I could say that open source drivers are apparently lower quality, right? 🙂\n
    \n
    But that would be just as silly as the other way around. I don’t think that open or closed drivers, in itself, automatically says anything about quality.\n
    \n
    If closed source drivers really were a problem then Nvidia wouldn’t be used by 80% of Linux gamers.
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 5
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  +lastActive: DateTime @1700151448 {#1566
    date: 2023-11-16 17:17:28.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@wim@lemmy.sdf.org"
    "@Yerbouti@lemmy.ml"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1597 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1731 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1723 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1721 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1728 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1730 …}
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    date: 2023-11-19 19:16:42.0 +01:00
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  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700151448 {#1626
    date: 2023-11-16 17:17:28.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 130655
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
113 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
114 DENIED moderate 
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1733
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2890 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
  +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3092 …}
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3132 …}
  +slug: "Rewriting-nouveau-s-Website-drivers-for-NVIDIA"
  +title: "Rewriting nouveau’s Website (drivers for NVIDIA)"
  +url: "https://tesk.page/2023/11/15/rewriting-nouveaus-website.html"
  +body: null
  +type: "link"
  +lang: "en"
  +isOc: false
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  +lastActive: DateTime @1700299084 {#3127
    date: 2023-11-18 10:18:04.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
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  +mentions: null
  +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3134 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3136 …}
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  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3140 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3142 …}
  +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3144 …}
  +children: [
    2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1735
      +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1733 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1729 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1724 …}
      +body: """
        Counterpoint: I don’t think any Linux DE will ever see mainstream adoption.\n
        \n
        It has nothing to do with how good they are. It’s not related to software support either. They could support every piece of software ever made; Linux supports 90% of games for Windows and emulators for dozens of other platforms and it still hasn’t attracted more than like 2% of gamers.\n
        \n
        It’s related to what OP said: to gain mass adoption you need to put up with a lot of bullshit. It takes a company with some financial gain to do that, and paid developers. Volunteer contributors will eventually say “screw this” or go mental like Torvalds.\n
        \n
        There’s no company that can do this. They tried and failed, because Microsoft. Apple and Google had to create their own platforms from scratch to get away from it.
        """
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      +isAdult: false
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        date: 2023-11-16 19:49:20.0 +01:00
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        "@petsoi@discuss.tchncs.de"
        "@TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world"
        "@flashgnash@lemm.ee"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1719 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1714 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1720 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1717 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1741 …}
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      -id: 131120
      -bodyTs: "'2':64 '90':43 'adopt':13,77 'appl':128 'attract':60 'away':141 'bullshit':87 'compani':91,117 'contributor':103 'could':33 'counterpoint':1 'creat':133 'de':8 'develop':101 'dozen':51 'either':31 'emul':49 'eventu':105 'ever':10,39 'everi':35 'fail':125 'financi':94 'gain':75,95 'game':45 'gamer':66 'get':140 'go':110 'good':21 'googl':130 'hasn':58 'like':63,112 'linux':7,41 'lot':85 'made':40 'mainstream':12 'mass':76 'mental':111 'microsoft':127 'need':79 'noth':16 'op':72 'paid':100 'piec':36 'platform':54,136 'put':81 'relat':27,69 'said':73 'say':106 'scratch':138 'screw':107 'see':11 'softwar':29,38 'still':57 'support':30,34,42 'take':89 'think':5 'torvald':113 'tri':123 'volunt':102 'window':47"
      +ranking: 0
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      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://feddit.nl/comment/4633976"
      +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700427384 {#1732
        date: 2023-11-19 21:56:24.0 +01:00
      }
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700160560 {#1727
        date: 2023-11-16 19:49:20.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 131120
    }
    1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2448
      +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1733 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2411 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1724 …}
      +body: """
        With other init systems you *don’t have to* write any custom config files. You just have to start docker; it already has container maintenance built-in.\n
        \n
        I’ll never understand why they had to complicate it and require every container to also have a unit of explicit management.
        """
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      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 0
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      +lastActive: DateTime @1700161010 {#2464
        date: 2023-11-16 19:56:50.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
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        "@petsoi@discuss.tchncs.de"
        "@TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world"
        "@aniki@lemm.ee"
        "@Shnog@lemmy.world"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2447 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2462 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2461 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2460 …}
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      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2454 …}
      -id: 131141
      -bodyTs: "'alreadi':22 'also':44 'built':27 'built-in':26 'complic':37 'config':13 'contain':24,42 'custom':12 'docker':20 'everi':41 'explicit':49 'file':14 'init':3 'll':30 'mainten':25 'manag':50 'never':31 'requir':40 'start':19 'system':4 'understand':32 'unit':47 'write':10"
      +ranking: 0
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      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://feddit.nl/comment/4634166"
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      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700161010 {#2463
        date: 2023-11-16 19:56:50.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 131141
    }
    0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2470
      +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1733 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2469 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1724 …}
      +body: "It is, it’s what `restart: always` does. It will restart a container on failure and start it on boot, unless explicitly stopped."
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 0
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        date: 2023-11-17 01:15:44.0 +01:00
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      +ip: null
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        "@petsoi@discuss.tchncs.de"
        "@TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world"
        "@aniki@lemm.ee"
        "@Shnog@lemmy.world"
        "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2467 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2371 …}
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      -id: 131950
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      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700180144 {#2468
        date: 2023-11-17 01:15:44.0 +01:00
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      +"title": 131950
    }
  ]
  -id: 13449
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    date: 2023-11-16 06:51:45.0 +01:00
  }
  +__isInitialized__: true
   …2
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
115 DENIED edit 
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1733
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2890 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
  +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3092 …}
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3132 …}
  +slug: "Rewriting-nouveau-s-Website-drivers-for-NVIDIA"
  +title: "Rewriting nouveau’s Website (drivers for NVIDIA)"
  +url: "https://tesk.page/2023/11/15/rewriting-nouveaus-website.html"
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    date: 2023-11-18 10:18:04.0 +01:00
  }
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  +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3134 …}
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  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3142 …}
  +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3144 …}
  +children: [
    2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1735
      +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1733 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1729 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1724 …}
      +body: """
        Counterpoint: I don’t think any Linux DE will ever see mainstream adoption.\n
        \n
        It has nothing to do with how good they are. It’s not related to software support either. They could support every piece of software ever made; Linux supports 90% of games for Windows and emulators for dozens of other platforms and it still hasn’t attracted more than like 2% of gamers.\n
        \n
        It’s related to what OP said: to gain mass adoption you need to put up with a lot of bullshit. It takes a company with some financial gain to do that, and paid developers. Volunteer contributors will eventually say “screw this” or go mental like Torvalds.\n
        \n
        There’s no company that can do this. They tried and failed, because Microsoft. Apple and Google had to create their own platforms from scratch to get away from it.
        """
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        "@petsoi@discuss.tchncs.de"
        "@TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world"
        "@flashgnash@lemm.ee"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1719 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1714 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1720 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1717 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1741 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1707 …}
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      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
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      +downVotes: 0
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      +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700427384 {#1732
        date: 2023-11-19 21:56:24.0 +01:00
      }
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700160560 {#1727
        date: 2023-11-16 19:49:20.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 131120
    }
    1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2448
      +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1733 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2411 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1724 …}
      +body: """
        With other init systems you *don’t have to* write any custom config files. You just have to start docker; it already has container maintenance built-in.\n
        \n
        I’ll never understand why they had to complicate it and require every container to also have a unit of explicit management.
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
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      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1700161010 {#2464
        date: 2023-11-16 19:56:50.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
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      +mentions: [
        "@petsoi@discuss.tchncs.de"
        "@TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world"
        "@aniki@lemm.ee"
        "@Shnog@lemmy.world"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2447 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2462 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2461 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2460 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2452 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2454 …}
      -id: 131141
      -bodyTs: "'alreadi':22 'also':44 'built':27 'built-in':26 'complic':37 'config':13 'contain':24,42 'custom':12 'docker':20 'everi':41 'explicit':49 'file':14 'init':3 'll':30 'mainten':25 'manag':50 'never':31 'requir':40 'start':19 'system':4 'understand':32 'unit':47 'write':10"
      +ranking: 0
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      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700161010 {#2463
        date: 2023-11-16 19:56:50.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 131141
    }
    0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2470
      +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1733 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2469 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1724 …}
      +body: "It is, it’s what `restart: always` does. It will restart a container on failure and start it on boot, unless explicitly stopped."
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 0
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        date: 2023-11-17 01:15:44.0 +01:00
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        "@petsoi@discuss.tchncs.de"
        "@TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world"
        "@aniki@lemm.ee"
        "@Shnog@lemmy.world"
        "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2467 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2371 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2370 …}
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      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700180144 {#2468
        date: 2023-11-17 01:15:44.0 +01:00
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      +"title": 131950
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  ]
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    date: 2023-11-16 06:51:45.0 +01:00
  }
  +__isInitialized__: true
   …2
}
 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
116 DENIED moderate 
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1733
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2890 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
  +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3092 …}
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3132 …}
  +slug: "Rewriting-nouveau-s-Website-drivers-for-NVIDIA"
  +title: "Rewriting nouveau’s Website (drivers for NVIDIA)"
  +url: "https://tesk.page/2023/11/15/rewriting-nouveaus-website.html"
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    date: 2023-11-18 10:18:04.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
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  +tags: null
  +mentions: null
  +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3134 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3136 …}
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  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3142 …}
  +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3144 …}
  +children: [
    2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1735
      +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1733 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1729 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1724 …}
      +body: """
        Counterpoint: I don’t think any Linux DE will ever see mainstream adoption.\n
        \n
        It has nothing to do with how good they are. It’s not related to software support either. They could support every piece of software ever made; Linux supports 90% of games for Windows and emulators for dozens of other platforms and it still hasn’t attracted more than like 2% of gamers.\n
        \n
        It’s related to what OP said: to gain mass adoption you need to put up with a lot of bullshit. It takes a company with some financial gain to do that, and paid developers. Volunteer contributors will eventually say “screw this” or go mental like Torvalds.\n
        \n
        There’s no company that can do this. They tried and failed, because Microsoft. Apple and Google had to create their own platforms from scratch to get away from it.
        """
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        "@petsoi@discuss.tchncs.de"
        "@TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world"
        "@flashgnash@lemm.ee"
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      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1719 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1714 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1720 …}
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      +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700427384 {#1732
        date: 2023-11-19 21:56:24.0 +01:00
      }
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700160560 {#1727
        date: 2023-11-16 19:49:20.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 131120
    }
    1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2448
      +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1733 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2411 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1724 …}
      +body: """
        With other init systems you *don’t have to* write any custom config files. You just have to start docker; it already has container maintenance built-in.\n
        \n
        I’ll never understand why they had to complicate it and require every container to also have a unit of explicit management.
        """
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      +isAdult: false
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      +score: 0
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        date: 2023-11-16 19:56:50.0 +01:00
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      +mentions: [
        "@petsoi@discuss.tchncs.de"
        "@TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world"
        "@aniki@lemm.ee"
        "@Shnog@lemmy.world"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2447 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2462 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2461 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2460 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2452 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2454 …}
      -id: 131141
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      +"title": 131141
    }
    0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2470
      +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1733 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2469 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1724 …}
      +body: "It is, it’s what `restart: always` does. It will restart a container on failure and start it on boot, unless explicitly stopped."
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      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 0
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        "@petsoi@discuss.tchncs.de"
        "@TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world"
        "@aniki@lemm.ee"
        "@Shnog@lemmy.world"
        "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2467 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2371 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2370 …}
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  ]
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  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700113905 {#3113
    date: 2023-11-16 06:51:45.0 +01:00
  }
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   …2
}
 
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Show voter details
117 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
118 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1735
  +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1733
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2890 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3092 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3132 …}
    +slug: "Rewriting-nouveau-s-Website-drivers-for-NVIDIA"
    +title: "Rewriting nouveau’s Website (drivers for NVIDIA)"
    +url: "https://tesk.page/2023/11/15/rewriting-nouveaus-website.html"
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    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3142 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3144 …}
    +children: [
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1735}
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2448
        +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1733 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2411 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1724 …}
        +body: """
          With other init systems you *don’t have to* write any custom config files. You just have to start docker; it already has container maintenance built-in.\n
          \n
          I’ll never understand why they had to complicate it and require every container to also have a unit of explicit management.
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          date: 2023-11-16 19:56:50.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 131141
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2470
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        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1733 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
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          "@TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world"
          "@aniki@lemm.ee"
          "@Shnog@lemmy.world"
          "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
        ]
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700113905 {#3113
      date: 2023-11-16 06:51:45.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1729 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1724 …}
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    Counterpoint: I don’t think any Linux DE will ever see mainstream adoption.\n
    \n
    It has nothing to do with how good they are. It’s not related to software support either. They could support every piece of software ever made; Linux supports 90% of games for Windows and emulators for dozens of other platforms and it still hasn’t attracted more than like 2% of gamers.\n
    \n
    It’s related to what OP said: to gain mass adoption you need to put up with a lot of bullshit. It takes a company with some financial gain to do that, and paid developers. Volunteer contributors will eventually say “screw this” or go mental like Torvalds.\n
    \n
    There’s no company that can do this. They tried and failed, because Microsoft. Apple and Google had to create their own platforms from scratch to get away from it.
    """
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"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
119 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1735
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    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2890 …}
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    +slug: "Rewriting-nouveau-s-Website-drivers-for-NVIDIA"
    +title: "Rewriting nouveau’s Website (drivers for NVIDIA)"
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      date: 2023-11-18 10:18:04.0 +01:00
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    +children: [
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1735}
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2448
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          With other init systems you *don’t have to* write any custom config files. You just have to start docker; it already has container maintenance built-in.\n
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          I’ll never understand why they had to complicate it and require every container to also have a unit of explicit management.
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      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2470
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      date: 2023-11-16 06:51:45.0 +01:00
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     …2
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  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
  +image: null
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    Counterpoint: I don’t think any Linux DE will ever see mainstream adoption.\n
    \n
    It has nothing to do with how good they are. It’s not related to software support either. They could support every piece of software ever made; Linux supports 90% of games for Windows and emulators for dozens of other platforms and it still hasn’t attracted more than like 2% of gamers.\n
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    """
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    "@TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world"
    "@flashgnash@lemm.ee"
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"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
120 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1735
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    +slug: "Rewriting-nouveau-s-Website-drivers-for-NVIDIA"
    +title: "Rewriting nouveau’s Website (drivers for NVIDIA)"
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    +type: "link"
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    +children: [
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1735}
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2448
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        +body: """
          With other init systems you *don’t have to* write any custom config files. You just have to start docker; it already has container maintenance built-in.\n
          \n
          I’ll never understand why they had to complicate it and require every container to also have a unit of explicit management.
          """
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          "@TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world"
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        +"title": 131141
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2470
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          "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
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     …2
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    Counterpoint: I don’t think any Linux DE will ever see mainstream adoption.\n
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
121 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
122 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2448
  +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1733
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    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3092 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3132 …}
    +slug: "Rewriting-nouveau-s-Website-drivers-for-NVIDIA"
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    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3134 …}
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    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3142 …}
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    +children: [
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1735
        +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
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        +image: null
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          Counterpoint: I don’t think any Linux DE will ever see mainstream adoption.\n
          \n
          It has nothing to do with how good they are. It’s not related to software support either. They could support every piece of software ever made; Linux supports 90% of games for Windows and emulators for dozens of other platforms and it still hasn’t attracted more than like 2% of gamers.\n
          \n
          It’s related to what OP said: to gain mass adoption you need to put up with a lot of bullshit. It takes a company with some financial gain to do that, and paid developers. Volunteer contributors will eventually say “screw this” or go mental like Torvalds.\n
          \n
          There’s no company that can do this. They tried and failed, because Microsoft. Apple and Google had to create their own platforms from scratch to get away from it.
          """
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          "@TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world"
          "@flashgnash@lemm.ee"
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        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1719 …}
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          date: 2023-11-19 21:56:24.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700160560 {#1727
          date: 2023-11-16 19:49:20.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 131120
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2448}
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2470
        +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1733 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2469 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1724 …}
        +body: "It is, it’s what `restart: always` does. It will restart a container on failure and start it on boot, unless explicitly stopped."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
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          date: 2023-11-17 01:15:44.0 +01:00
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          "@petsoi@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world"
          "@aniki@lemm.ee"
          "@Shnog@lemmy.world"
          "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2467 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2371 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2370 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2360 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2361 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2372 …}
        -id: 131950
        -bodyTs: "'alway':7 'boot':20 'contain':13 'explicit':22 'failur':15 'restart':6,11 'start':17 'stop':23 'unless':21"
        +ranking: 0
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        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
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        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700180144 {#2468
          date: 2023-11-17 01:15:44.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 131950
      }
    ]
    -id: 13449
    -titleTs: "'driver':5 'nouveau':2 'nvidia':7 'rewrit':1 'websit':4"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1700200305
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://discuss.tchncs.de/post/6366777"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700113905 {#3113
      date: 2023-11-16 06:51:45.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2411 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1724 …}
  +body: """
    With other init systems you *don’t have to* write any custom config files. You just have to start docker; it already has container maintenance built-in.\n
    \n
    I’ll never understand why they had to complicate it and require every container to also have a unit of explicit management.
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
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  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1700161010 {#2464
    date: 2023-11-16 19:56:50.0 +01:00
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    "@TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world"
    "@aniki@lemm.ee"
    "@Shnog@lemmy.world"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2447 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2462 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2461 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2460 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2452 …}
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  -id: 131141
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  +ranking: 0
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  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700161010 {#2463
    date: 2023-11-16 19:56:50.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 131141
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
123 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2448
  +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1733
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2890 …}
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    +slug: "Rewriting-nouveau-s-Website-drivers-for-NVIDIA"
    +title: "Rewriting nouveau’s Website (drivers for NVIDIA)"
    +url: "https://tesk.page/2023/11/15/rewriting-nouveaus-website.html"
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    }
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    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3134 …}
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    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3142 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3144 …}
    +children: [
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1735
        +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1733 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1729 …}
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        +body: """
          Counterpoint: I don’t think any Linux DE will ever see mainstream adoption.\n
          \n
          It has nothing to do with how good they are. It’s not related to software support either. They could support every piece of software ever made; Linux supports 90% of games for Windows and emulators for dozens of other platforms and it still hasn’t attracted more than like 2% of gamers.\n
          \n
          It’s related to what OP said: to gain mass adoption you need to put up with a lot of bullshit. It takes a company with some financial gain to do that, and paid developers. Volunteer contributors will eventually say “screw this” or go mental like Torvalds.\n
          \n
          There’s no company that can do this. They tried and failed, because Microsoft. Apple and Google had to create their own platforms from scratch to get away from it.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 4
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          date: 2023-11-16 19:49:20.0 +01:00
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        +mentions: [
          "@petsoi@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world"
          "@flashgnash@lemm.ee"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1719 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1714 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1720 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1717 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1741 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1707 …}
        -id: 131120
        -bodyTs: "'2':64 '90':43 'adopt':13,77 'appl':128 'attract':60 'away':141 'bullshit':87 'compani':91,117 'contributor':103 'could':33 'counterpoint':1 'creat':133 'de':8 'develop':101 'dozen':51 'either':31 'emul':49 'eventu':105 'ever':10,39 'everi':35 'fail':125 'financi':94 'gain':75,95 'game':45 'gamer':66 'get':140 'go':110 'good':21 'googl':130 'hasn':58 'like':63,112 'linux':7,41 'lot':85 'made':40 'mainstream':12 'mass':76 'mental':111 'microsoft':127 'need':79 'noth':16 'op':72 'paid':100 'piec':36 'platform':54,136 'put':81 'relat':27,69 'said':73 'say':106 'scratch':138 'screw':107 'see':11 'softwar':29,38 'still':57 'support':30,34,42 'take':89 'think':5 'torvald':113 'tri':123 'volunt':102 'window':47"
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          date: 2023-11-19 21:56:24.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700160560 {#1727
          date: 2023-11-16 19:49:20.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 131120
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2448}
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2470
        +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1733 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2469 …}
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        +body: "It is, it’s what `restart: always` does. It will restart a container on failure and start it on boot, unless explicitly stopped."
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          "@petsoi@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world"
          "@aniki@lemm.ee"
          "@Shnog@lemmy.world"
          "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2467 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2371 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2370 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2360 …}
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        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2372 …}
        -id: 131950
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        +visibility: "visible             "
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          date: 2023-11-17 01:15:44.0 +01:00
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    ]
    -id: 13449
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700113905 {#3113
      date: 2023-11-16 06:51:45.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2411 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1724 …}
  +body: """
    With other init systems you *don’t have to* write any custom config files. You just have to start docker; it already has container maintenance built-in.\n
    \n
    I’ll never understand why they had to complicate it and require every container to also have a unit of explicit management.
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 0
  +score: 0
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    date: 2023-11-16 19:56:50.0 +01:00
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    "@TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world"
    "@aniki@lemm.ee"
    "@Shnog@lemmy.world"
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"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
124 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2448
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    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2890 …}
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          Counterpoint: I don’t think any Linux DE will ever see mainstream adoption.\n
          \n
          It has nothing to do with how good they are. It’s not related to software support either. They could support every piece of software ever made; Linux supports 90% of games for Windows and emulators for dozens of other platforms and it still hasn’t attracted more than like 2% of gamers.\n
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          It’s related to what OP said: to gain mass adoption you need to put up with a lot of bullshit. It takes a company with some financial gain to do that, and paid developers. Volunteer contributors will eventually say “screw this” or go mental like Torvalds.\n
          \n
          There’s no company that can do this. They tried and failed, because Microsoft. Apple and Google had to create their own platforms from scratch to get away from it.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          "@TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world"
          "@flashgnash@lemm.ee"
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        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1719 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1714 …}
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        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1717 …}
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          date: 2023-11-19 21:56:24.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700160560 {#1727
          date: 2023-11-16 19:49:20.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 131120
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2448}
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2470
        +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1733 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2469 …}
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        +body: "It is, it’s what `restart: always` does. It will restart a container on failure and start it on boot, unless explicitly stopped."
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          "@TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world"
          "@aniki@lemm.ee"
          "@Shnog@lemmy.world"
          "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700113905 {#3113
      date: 2023-11-16 06:51:45.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2411 …}
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  +body: """
    With other init systems you *don’t have to* write any custom config files. You just have to start docker; it already has container maintenance built-in.\n
    \n
    I’ll never understand why they had to complicate it and require every container to also have a unit of explicit management.
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
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    date: 2023-11-16 19:56:50.0 +01:00
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    "@TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world"
    "@aniki@lemm.ee"
    "@Shnog@lemmy.world"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2447 …}
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}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
125 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
126 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2470
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    +children: [
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1735
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          Counterpoint: I don’t think any Linux DE will ever see mainstream adoption.\n
          \n
          It has nothing to do with how good they are. It’s not related to software support either. They could support every piece of software ever made; Linux supports 90% of games for Windows and emulators for dozens of other platforms and it still hasn’t attracted more than like 2% of gamers.\n
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          \n
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          "@TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world"
          "@flashgnash@lemm.ee"
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          date: 2023-11-19 21:56:24.0 +01:00
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          date: 2023-11-16 19:49:20.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 131120
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2448
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        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1733 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
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          With other init systems you *don’t have to* write any custom config files. You just have to start docker; it already has container maintenance built-in.\n
          \n
          I’ll never understand why they had to complicate it and require every container to also have a unit of explicit management.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-16 19:56:50.0 +01:00
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          "@TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world"
          "@aniki@lemm.ee"
          "@Shnog@lemmy.world"
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        -id: 131141
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      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2470}
    ]
    -id: 13449
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      date: 2023-11-16 06:51:45.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
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    "@Shnog@lemmy.world"
    "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
  ]
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}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
127 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2470
  +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
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    +children: [
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1735
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          Counterpoint: I don’t think any Linux DE will ever see mainstream adoption.\n
          \n
          It has nothing to do with how good they are. It’s not related to software support either. They could support every piece of software ever made; Linux supports 90% of games for Windows and emulators for dozens of other platforms and it still hasn’t attracted more than like 2% of gamers.\n
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          It’s related to what OP said: to gain mass adoption you need to put up with a lot of bullshit. It takes a company with some financial gain to do that, and paid developers. Volunteer contributors will eventually say “screw this” or go mental like Torvalds.\n
          \n
          There’s no company that can do this. They tried and failed, because Microsoft. Apple and Google had to create their own platforms from scratch to get away from it.
          """
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        +isAdult: false
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          "@TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world"
          "@flashgnash@lemm.ee"
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          date: 2023-11-19 21:56:24.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700160560 {#1727
          date: 2023-11-16 19:49:20.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 131120
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2448
        +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1733 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2411 …}
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        +body: """
          With other init systems you *don’t have to* write any custom config files. You just have to start docker; it already has container maintenance built-in.\n
          \n
          I’ll never understand why they had to complicate it and require every container to also have a unit of explicit management.
          """
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          "@TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world"
          "@aniki@lemm.ee"
          "@Shnog@lemmy.world"
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          date: 2023-11-16 19:56:50.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 131141
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2470}
    ]
    -id: 13449
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    +ranking: 1700200305
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700113905 {#3113
      date: 2023-11-16 06:51:45.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2469 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1724 …}
  +body: "It is, it’s what `restart: always` does. It will restart a container on failure and start it on boot, unless explicitly stopped."
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    "@aniki@lemm.ee"
    "@Shnog@lemmy.world"
    "@lemmyvore@feddit.nl"
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}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
128 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2470
  +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1733
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2890 …}
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    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3132 …}
    +slug: "Rewriting-nouveau-s-Website-drivers-for-NVIDIA"
    +title: "Rewriting nouveau’s Website (drivers for NVIDIA)"
    +url: "https://tesk.page/2023/11/15/rewriting-nouveaus-website.html"
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    +type: "link"
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      date: 2023-11-18 10:18:04.0 +01:00
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1735
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          Counterpoint: I don’t think any Linux DE will ever see mainstream adoption.\n
          \n
          It has nothing to do with how good they are. It’s not related to software support either. They could support every piece of software ever made; Linux supports 90% of games for Windows and emulators for dozens of other platforms and it still hasn’t attracted more than like 2% of gamers.\n
          \n
          It’s related to what OP said: to gain mass adoption you need to put up with a lot of bullshit. It takes a company with some financial gain to do that, and paid developers. Volunteer contributors will eventually say “screw this” or go mental like Torvalds.\n
          \n
          There’s no company that can do this. They tried and failed, because Microsoft. Apple and Google had to create their own platforms from scratch to get away from it.
          """
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2448
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          With other init systems you *don’t have to* write any custom config files. You just have to start docker; it already has container maintenance built-in.\n
          \n
          I’ll never understand why they had to complicate it and require every container to also have a unit of explicit management.
          """
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     …2
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"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
129 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
130 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1548
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
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"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
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"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
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"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
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"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
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"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
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Show voter details
131 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1548
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
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"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
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"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
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"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
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"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
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"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
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"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
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"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
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Show voter details
132 DENIED moderate 
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"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
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"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
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"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
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"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
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"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
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"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
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"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
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Show voter details
133 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
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"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
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"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
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"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
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"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
134 DENIED moderate 
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1619
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2006 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1596 …}
  +image: null
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2938 …}
  +slug: "Is-there-an-iOS-app-that-can-download-YouTube-music"
  +title: "Is there an iOS app that can download YouTube music songs to mp3 like InnerTune can for Android?"
  +url: null
  +body: "Obviously Android is clearly a superior platform, but the only device someone I know has is an iPhone, and I want to know if I can recommend them an app to easily do this for them."
  +type: "article"
  +lang: "en"
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  +hasEmbed: false
  +commentCount: 10
  +favouriteCount: 34
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    date: 2023-11-16 16:42:34.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
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  +tags: null
  +mentions: null
  +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3130 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3172 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3174 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3176 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3178 …}
  +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3180 …}
  +children: [
    App\Entity\EntryComment {#1702
      +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1619 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1596 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: null
      +root: null
      +body: "[getvideo.at](https://getvideo.at/)"
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 3
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      }
      +ip: null
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      +mentions: [
        "@JackGreenEarth@lemm.ee"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1604 …}
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      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1556 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1554 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1562 …}
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  +cross: false
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  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700089927 {#3152
    date: 2023-11-16 00:12:07.0 +01:00
  }
  +__isInitialized__: true
   …2
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
135 DENIED edit 
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1619
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2006 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1596 …}
  +image: null
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2938 …}
  +slug: "Is-there-an-iOS-app-that-can-download-YouTube-music"
  +title: "Is there an iOS app that can download YouTube music songs to mp3 like InnerTune can for Android?"
  +url: null
  +body: "Obviously Android is clearly a superior platform, but the only device someone I know has is an iPhone, and I want to know if I can recommend them an app to easily do this for them."
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  +hasEmbed: false
  +commentCount: 10
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  +lastActive: DateTime @1700149354 {#3165
    date: 2023-11-16 16:42:34.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +adaAmount: 0
  +tags: null
  +mentions: null
  +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3130 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3172 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3174 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3176 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3178 …}
  +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3180 …}
  +children: [
    App\Entity\EntryComment {#1702
      +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1619 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1596 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: null
      +root: null
      +body: "[getvideo.at](https://getvideo.at/)"
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
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      }
      +ip: null
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      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1604 …}
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      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1556 …}
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      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700114679 {#1701
        date: 2023-11-16 07:04:39.0 +01:00
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  ]
  -id: 13365
  -titleTs: "'android':18 'app':5 'download':8 'innertun':15 'io':4 'like':14 'mp3':13 'music':10 'song':11 'youtub':9"
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  +cross: false
  +upVotes: 0
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  +ranking: 1700176327
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  +apId: "https://lemm.ee/post/15033654"
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  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700089927 {#3152
    date: 2023-11-16 00:12:07.0 +01:00
  }
  +__isInitialized__: true
   …2
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
136 DENIED moderate 
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1619
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2006 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1596 …}
  +image: null
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2938 …}
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  +title: "Is there an iOS app that can download YouTube music songs to mp3 like InnerTune can for Android?"
  +url: null
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  +hasEmbed: false
  +commentCount: 10
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  +lastActive: DateTime @1700149354 {#3165
    date: 2023-11-16 16:42:34.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
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  +tags: null
  +mentions: null
  +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3130 …}
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  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3174 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3176 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3178 …}
  +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3180 …}
  +children: [
    App\Entity\EntryComment {#1702
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      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1619 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1596 …}
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      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1604 …}
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  -id: 13365
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  +cross: false
  +upVotes: 0
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  +apId: "https://lemm.ee/post/15033654"
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  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700089927 {#3152
    date: 2023-11-16 00:12:07.0 +01:00
  }
  +__isInitialized__: true
   …2
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
137 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
138 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1702
  +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1619
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2006 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1596 …}
    +image: null
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2938 …}
    +slug: "Is-there-an-iOS-app-that-can-download-YouTube-music"
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    +url: null
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      date: 2023-11-16 16:42:34.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
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    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3130 …}
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    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3178 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3180 …}
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    -id: 13365
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    +cross: false
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700089927 {#3152
      date: 2023-11-16 00:12:07.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1596 …}
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  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1604 …}
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  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1556 …}
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  -id: 129253
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    date: 2023-11-16 07:04:39.0 +01:00
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}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
139 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1702
  +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1619
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2006 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1596 …}
    +image: null
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2938 …}
    +slug: "Is-there-an-iOS-app-that-can-download-YouTube-music"
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    +url: null
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      date: 2023-11-16 16:42:34.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
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    -id: 13365
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      date: 2023-11-16 00:12:07.0 +01:00
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    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
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    date: 2023-11-16 07:04:39.0 +01:00
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}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
140 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1702
  +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1619
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2006 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1596 …}
    +image: null
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2938 …}
    +slug: "Is-there-an-iOS-app-that-can-download-YouTube-music"
    +title: "Is there an iOS app that can download YouTube music songs to mp3 like InnerTune can for Android?"
    +url: null
    +body: "Obviously Android is clearly a superior platform, but the only device someone I know has is an iPhone, and I want to know if I can recommend them an app to easily do this for them."
    +type: "article"
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      date: 2023-11-16 16:42:34.0 +01:00
    }
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    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3130 …}
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    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3176 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3178 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3180 …}
    +children: [
      App\Entity\EntryComment {#1702}
    ]
    -id: 13365
    -titleTs: "'android':18 'app':5 'download':8 'innertun':15 'io':4 'like':14 'mp3':13 'music':10 'song':11 'youtub':9"
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    +cross: false
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700089927 {#3152
      date: 2023-11-16 00:12:07.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1596 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: null
  +root: null
  +body: "[getvideo.at](https://getvideo.at/)"
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 3
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  +lastActive: DateTime @1700388350 {#1683
    date: 2023-11-19 11:05:50.0 +01:00
  }
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    "@JackGreenEarth@lemm.ee"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1604 …}
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  -id: 129253
  -bodyTs: "'/)':4 'getvideo.at':1,3 'getvideo.at/)':2"
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  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700114679 {#1701
    date: 2023-11-16 07:04:39.0 +01:00
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  +"title": 129253
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
141 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
142 DENIED moderate 
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1579
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#3207 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
  +image: null
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2938 …}
  +slug: "Is-there-an-easy-way-to-set-up-an-email"
  +title: "Is there an easy way to set up an email client so you get system notifications in GNOME once you receive an e-mail?"
  +url: null
  +body: """
    As simple as the title sounds I’m having huge trouble getting that working.\n
    \n
    Thunderbird only fetches new mail while it’s open.\n
    \n
    Who the heck knows how to get evolution/geary to play nice with business gmail/protonmail.\n
    \n
    Does anyone have a simple way of solving this problem?\n
    \n
    edit. Also, somewhat related, is there a good looking, simple e-mail client? Thunderbird looks *busy*. Geary kinda looks okay but I cant get it to work at all.
    """
  +type: "article"
  +lang: "en"
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  +hasEmbed: false
  +commentCount: 30
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    date: 2023-11-17 23:14:18.0 +01:00
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  +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3209 …}
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  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3215 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3217 …}
  +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3219 …}
  +children: [
    App\Entity\EntryComment {#1614
      +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1579 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: null
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      +body: "I’m using Claws Mail. It has a plugin that can do notifications in many ways, including a tray icon. You can configure it to start hidden in the tray, configure how often it checks email and on which accounts, to which folders the notification should react etc."
      +lang: "en"
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      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1651 …}
      -id: 125305
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  -id: 12999
  -titleTs: "'client':11 'e':24 'e-mail':23 'easi':4 'email':10 'get':14 'gnome':18 'mail':25 'notif':16 'receiv':21 'set':7 'system':15 'way':5"
  -bodyTs: "'also':49 'anyon':39 'busi':36,64 'cant':71 'client':61 'e':59 'e-mail':58 'edit':48 'evolution/geary':31 'fetch':17 'geari':65 'get':12,30,72 'gmail/protonmail':37 'good':55 'heck':26 'huge':10 'kinda':66 'know':27 'look':56,63,67 'm':8 'mail':19,60 'new':18 'nice':34 'okay':68 'open':23 'play':33 'problem':47 'relat':51 'simpl':2,42,57 'solv':45 'somewhat':50 'sound':6 'thunderbird':15,62 'titl':5 'troubl':11 'way':43 'work':14,75"
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  +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700223517 {#3188
    date: 2023-11-17 13:18:37.0 +01:00
  }
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699982108 {#3168
    date: 2023-11-14 18:15:08.0 +01:00
  }
  +__isInitialized__: true
   …2
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
143 DENIED edit 
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1579
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#3207 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
  +image: null
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2938 …}
  +slug: "Is-there-an-easy-way-to-set-up-an-email"
  +title: "Is there an easy way to set up an email client so you get system notifications in GNOME once you receive an e-mail?"
  +url: null
  +body: """
    As simple as the title sounds I’m having huge trouble getting that working.\n
    \n
    Thunderbird only fetches new mail while it’s open.\n
    \n
    Who the heck knows how to get evolution/geary to play nice with business gmail/protonmail.\n
    \n
    Does anyone have a simple way of solving this problem?\n
    \n
    edit. Also, somewhat related, is there a good looking, simple e-mail client? Thunderbird looks *busy*. Geary kinda looks okay but I cant get it to work at all.
    """
  +type: "article"
  +lang: "en"
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  +hasEmbed: false
  +commentCount: 30
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    date: 2023-11-17 23:14:18.0 +01:00
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  +ip: null
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  +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3209 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3211 …}
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  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3215 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3217 …}
  +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3219 …}
  +children: [
    App\Entity\EntryComment {#1614
      +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1579 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: null
      +root: null
      +body: "I’m using Claws Mail. It has a plugin that can do notifications in many ways, including a tray icon. You can configure it to start hidden in the tray, configure how often it checks email and on which accounts, to which folders the notification should react etc."
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
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        date: 2023-11-14 23:28:09.0 +01:00
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      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1573 …}
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      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1588 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1560 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1651 …}
      -id: 125305
      -bodyTs: "'account':40 'check':35 'claw':4 'configur':23,31 'email':36 'etc':48 'folder':43 'hidden':27 'icon':20 'includ':17 'm':2 'mail':5 'mani':15 'notif':13,45 'often':33 'plugin':9 'react':47 'start':26 'tray':19,30 'use':3 'way':16"
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  ]
  -id: 12999
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  -bodyTs: "'also':49 'anyon':39 'busi':36,64 'cant':71 'client':61 'e':59 'e-mail':58 'edit':48 'evolution/geary':31 'fetch':17 'geari':65 'get':12,30,72 'gmail/protonmail':37 'good':55 'heck':26 'huge':10 'kinda':66 'know':27 'look':56,63,67 'm':8 'mail':19,60 'new':18 'nice':34 'okay':68 'open':23 'play':33 'problem':47 'relat':51 'simpl':2,42,57 'solv':45 'somewhat':50 'sound':6 'thunderbird':15,62 'titl':5 'troubl':11 'way':43 'work':14,75"
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    date: 2023-11-17 13:18:37.0 +01:00
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  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699982108 {#3168
    date: 2023-11-14 18:15:08.0 +01:00
  }
  +__isInitialized__: true
   …2
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
144 DENIED moderate 
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1579
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#3207 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
  +image: null
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2938 …}
  +slug: "Is-there-an-easy-way-to-set-up-an-email"
  +title: "Is there an easy way to set up an email client so you get system notifications in GNOME once you receive an e-mail?"
  +url: null
  +body: """
    As simple as the title sounds I’m having huge trouble getting that working.\n
    \n
    Thunderbird only fetches new mail while it’s open.\n
    \n
    Who the heck knows how to get evolution/geary to play nice with business gmail/protonmail.\n
    \n
    Does anyone have a simple way of solving this problem?\n
    \n
    edit. Also, somewhat related, is there a good looking, simple e-mail client? Thunderbird looks *busy*. Geary kinda looks okay but I cant get it to work at all.
    """
  +type: "article"
  +lang: "en"
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  +hasEmbed: false
  +commentCount: 30
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  +score: 0
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    date: 2023-11-17 23:14:18.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
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  +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3209 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3211 …}
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  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3215 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3217 …}
  +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3219 …}
  +children: [
    App\Entity\EntryComment {#1614
      +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1579 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: null
      +root: null
      +body: "I’m using Claws Mail. It has a plugin that can do notifications in many ways, including a tray icon. You can configure it to start hidden in the tray, configure how often it checks email and on which accounts, to which folders the notification should react etc."
      +lang: "en"
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        "@shapis@lemmy.ml"
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      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1573 …}
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  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://lemmy.ml/post/7960866"
  +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700223517 {#3188
    date: 2023-11-17 13:18:37.0 +01:00
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  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699982108 {#3168
    date: 2023-11-14 18:15:08.0 +01:00
  }
  +__isInitialized__: true
   …2
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
145 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
146 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1614
  +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1579
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#3207 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
    +image: null
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2938 …}
    +slug: "Is-there-an-easy-way-to-set-up-an-email"
    +title: "Is there an easy way to set up an email client so you get system notifications in GNOME once you receive an e-mail?"
    +url: null
    +body: """
      As simple as the title sounds I’m having huge trouble getting that working.\n
      \n
      Thunderbird only fetches new mail while it’s open.\n
      \n
      Who the heck knows how to get evolution/geary to play nice with business gmail/protonmail.\n
      \n
      Does anyone have a simple way of solving this problem?\n
      \n
      edit. Also, somewhat related, is there a good looking, simple e-mail client? Thunderbird looks *busy*. Geary kinda looks okay but I cant get it to work at all.
      """
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      date: 2023-11-14 18:15:08.0 +01:00
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     …2
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  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: null
  +root: null
  +body: "I’m using Claws Mail. It has a plugin that can do notifications in many ways, including a tray icon. You can configure it to start hidden in the tray, configure how often it checks email and on which accounts, to which folders the notification should react etc."
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  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1573 …}
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"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
147 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1614
  +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1579
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    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
    +image: null
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2938 …}
    +slug: "Is-there-an-easy-way-to-set-up-an-email"
    +title: "Is there an easy way to set up an email client so you get system notifications in GNOME once you receive an e-mail?"
    +url: null
    +body: """
      As simple as the title sounds I’m having huge trouble getting that working.\n
      \n
      Thunderbird only fetches new mail while it’s open.\n
      \n
      Who the heck knows how to get evolution/geary to play nice with business gmail/protonmail.\n
      \n
      Does anyone have a simple way of solving this problem?\n
      \n
      edit. Also, somewhat related, is there a good looking, simple e-mail client? Thunderbird looks *busy*. Geary kinda looks okay but I cant get it to work at all.
      """
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      date: 2023-11-14 18:15:08.0 +01:00
    }
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     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: null
  +root: null
  +body: "I’m using Claws Mail. It has a plugin that can do notifications in many ways, including a tray icon. You can configure it to start hidden in the tray, configure how often it checks email and on which accounts, to which folders the notification should react etc."
  +lang: "en"
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}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
148 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1614
  +user: App\Entity\User {#259 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1579
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    +image: null
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2938 …}
    +slug: "Is-there-an-easy-way-to-set-up-an-email"
    +title: "Is there an easy way to set up an email client so you get system notifications in GNOME once you receive an e-mail?"
    +url: null
    +body: """
      As simple as the title sounds I’m having huge trouble getting that working.\n
      \n
      Thunderbird only fetches new mail while it’s open.\n
      \n
      Who the heck knows how to get evolution/geary to play nice with business gmail/protonmail.\n
      \n
      Does anyone have a simple way of solving this problem?\n
      \n
      edit. Also, somewhat related, is there a good looking, simple e-mail client? Thunderbird looks *busy*. Geary kinda looks okay but I cant get it to work at all.
      """
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      date: 2023-11-14 18:15:08.0 +01:00
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     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1585 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: null
  +root: null
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}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
149 DENIED ROLE_ADMIN 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
150 DENIED ROLE_MODERATOR 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details