GET https://kbin.spritesserver.nl/m/asklemmy@lemmy.world/t/4832/What-s-the-best-response-to-someone-who-believes-in-hard/newest

Response
200 OK
IP
216.73.216.214
Profiled on
Token
abf02c

Security

Token

There is no security token.

Firewall

main Name
Security enabled
Stateless

Configuration

Key Value
provider security.user.provider.concrete.app_user_provider
context main
entry_point App\Security\KbinAuthenticator
user_checker App\Security\UserChecker
access_denied_handler (none)
access_denied_url (none)
authenticators 
[
  "two_factor"
  "remember_me"
  "App\Security\KbinAuthenticator"
  "App\Security\FacebookAuthenticator"
  "App\Security\GoogleAuthenticator"
  "App\Security\GithubAuthenticator"
  "App\Security\KeycloakAuthenticator"
]

Listeners

Listener Duration Response 
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\ChannelListener {#723
  -map: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\AccessMap {#722 …}
  -logger: Monolog\Logger {#783 …}
  -httpPort: 80
  -httpsPort: 443
}
 0.00 ms (none) 
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\ContextListener {#706
  -tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\TokenStorage {#1017 …}
  -sessionKey: "_security_main"
  -logger: Monolog\Logger {#783 …}
  -userProviders: Symfony\Component\DependencyInjection\Argument\RewindableGenerator {#705 …}
  -dispatcher: Symfony\Component\EventDispatcher\Debug\TraceableEventDispatcher {#747 …}
  -registered: false
  -trustResolver: Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authentication\AuthenticationTrustResolver {#780 …}
  -sessionTrackerEnabler: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage::enableUsageTracking(): void {#703 …}
}
 0.91 ms (none) 
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\AuthenticatorManagerListener {#584
  -authenticatorManager: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Authentication\AuthenticatorManager {#595 …}
}
 0.00 ms (none) 
Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Http\Firewall\TwoFactorAccessListener {#582
  -twoFactorFirewallConfig: Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\TwoFactor\TwoFactorFirewallConfig {#842 …}
  -tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage {#1018 …}
  -twoFactorAccessDecider: Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\TwoFactorAccessDecider {#581 …}
}
 0.06 ms (none) 
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\AccessListener {#579
  -tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage {#1018 …}
  -accessDecisionManager: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\TraceableAccessDecisionManager {#937 …}
  -map: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\AccessMap {#722 …}
}
 0.00 ms (none) 
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\LogoutListener {#786
  -tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage {#1018 …}
  -options: [
    "csrf_parameter" => "_csrf_token"
    "csrf_token_id" => "logout"
    "logout_path" => "app_logout"
  ]
  -httpUtils: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\HttpUtils {#841 …}
  -csrfTokenManager: Symfony\Component\Security\Csrf\CsrfTokenManager {#1015 …}
  -eventDispatcher: Symfony\Component\EventDispatcher\Debug\TraceableEventDispatcher {#747 …}
}
 0.00 ms (none)

Authenticators

No authenticators have been recorded. Check previous profiles on your authentication endpoint.

Access Decision

affirmative Strategy
# Voter class
1 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\AuthenticatedVoter"
2 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
3 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
4 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\ExpressionVoter"
5 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
6 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
7 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
8 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
9 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
10 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
11 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
12 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
13 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
14 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"

Access decision log

# Result Attributes Object
1 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
2 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\Entry {#2419
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1970 …}
  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265
    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#246 …}
    +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.world"
    +title: "asklemmy"
    +description: """
      A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
      -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      **Rules: (interactive)**\n
      ------------------------\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
      \n
      Partnered Communities:\n
      ----------------------\n
      \n
      [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
      """
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    +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#233 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#222 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#180 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#138 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#200 …}
    +bans: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#117 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#103 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#81 …}
    +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#71 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1346 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1823 …}
    -id: 49
    +apId: "asklemmy@lemmy.world"
    +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmy"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmy"
    +apFollowersUrl: "https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmy/followers"
    +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.world/inbox"
    +apDomain: "lemmy.world"
    +apPreferredUsername: "asklemmy"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1729583301 {#269
      date: 2024-10-22 09:48:21.0 +02:00
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    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697177027 {#271
      date: 2023-10-13 08:03:47.0 +02:00
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  }
  +image: null
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#1915 …}
  +slug: "What-s-the-best-response-to-someone-who-believes-in-hard"
  +title: "What's the best response to someone who believes in hard determinism but also uses this to deny responsibility for any immoral actions they commit?"
  +url: null
  +body: "That is, they think all of their decisions were preordained, and then use this to claim that they can’t be held responsible for anything they do."
  +type: "article"
  +lang: "en"
  +isOc: false
  +hasEmbed: false
  +commentCount: 65
  +favouriteCount: 69
  +score: 0
  +isAdult: false
  +sticky: false
  +lastActive: DateTime @1697401034 {#2414
    date: 2023-10-15 22:17:14.0 +02:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +adaAmount: 0
  +tags: null
  +mentions: null
  +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1884 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1973 …}
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  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1927 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2442 …}
  +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2440 …}
  +children: []
  -id: 4832
  -titleTs: "'action':23 'also':14 'believ':9 'best':4 'commit':25 'deni':18 'determin':12 'hard':11 'immor':22 'respons':5,19 'someon':7 'use':15"
  -bodyTs: "'anyth':25 'claim':16 'decis':8 'held':22 'preordain':10 'respons':23 'think':4 'use':13"
  +cross: false
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +ranking: 1697263226
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://lemmy.world/post/6731509"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697176826 {#1793
    date: 2023-10-13 08:00:26.0 +02:00
  }
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
3 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\Entry {#2419
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1970 …}
  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265
    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#246 …}
    +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.world"
    +title: "asklemmy"
    +description: """
      A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
      -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      **Rules: (interactive)**\n
      ------------------------\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
      \n
      Partnered Communities:\n
      ----------------------\n
      \n
      [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
      """
    +rules: null
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    +entryCount: 1179
    +entryCommentCount: 42676
    +postCount: 3
    +postCommentCount: 67
    +isAdult: false
    +customCss: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1729583245 {#275
      date: 2024-10-22 09:47:25.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +tags: null
    +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#237 …}
    +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#233 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#222 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#180 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#138 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#200 …}
    +bans: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#117 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#103 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#81 …}
    +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#71 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1346 …}
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    +apDeletedAt: null
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    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697177027 {#271
      date: 2023-10-13 08:03:47.0 +02:00
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  }
  +image: null
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#1915 …}
  +slug: "What-s-the-best-response-to-someone-who-believes-in-hard"
  +title: "What's the best response to someone who believes in hard determinism but also uses this to deny responsibility for any immoral actions they commit?"
  +url: null
  +body: "That is, they think all of their decisions were preordained, and then use this to claim that they can’t be held responsible for anything they do."
  +type: "article"
  +lang: "en"
  +isOc: false
  +hasEmbed: false
  +commentCount: 65
  +favouriteCount: 69
  +score: 0
  +isAdult: false
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  +lastActive: DateTime @1697401034 {#2414
    date: 2023-10-15 22:17:14.0 +02:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +adaAmount: 0
  +tags: null
  +mentions: null
  +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1884 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1973 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1959 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1927 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2442 …}
  +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2440 …}
  +children: []
  -id: 4832
  -titleTs: "'action':23 'also':14 'believ':9 'best':4 'commit':25 'deni':18 'determin':12 'hard':11 'immor':22 'respons':5,19 'someon':7 'use':15"
  -bodyTs: "'anyth':25 'claim':16 'decis':8 'held':22 'preordain':10 'respons':23 'think':4 'use':13"
  +cross: false
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +ranking: 1697263226
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://lemmy.world/post/6731509"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697176826 {#1793
    date: 2023-10-13 08:00:26.0 +02:00
  }
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
4 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\Entry {#2419
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1970 …}
  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265
    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#246 …}
    +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.world"
    +title: "asklemmy"
    +description: """
      A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
      -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      **Rules: (interactive)**\n
      ------------------------\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
      \n
      Partnered Communities:\n
      ----------------------\n
      \n
      [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
      """
    +rules: null
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    +entryCount: 1179
    +entryCommentCount: 42676
    +postCount: 3
    +postCommentCount: 67
    +isAdult: false
    +customCss: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1729583245 {#275
      date: 2024-10-22 09:47:25.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +tags: null
    +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#237 …}
    +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#233 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#222 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#180 …}
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        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
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        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
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        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
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7 DENIED edit 
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        \n
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        \n
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        ------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
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        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
8 DENIED moderate 
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        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
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        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
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        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
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        \n
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        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
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        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
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    Tell them they should have factored the consequences into their predetermined behavior.\n
    \n
    They should also understand why consistent enforcement is necessary to prevent others from making the same preordained decision.\n
    \n
    Even if the choice is only illusory, it’s indistinguishable from free will in every other respect… So we will treat it as such
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        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
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13 DENIED ROLE_USER 
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        \n
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        \n
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        \n
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        \n
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        \n
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        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
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        \n
        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
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    “Even if the choice is only illusory, it’s indistinguishable from free will in every other respect… So we will treat it as such”\n
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    I like that!
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#5247
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        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
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        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
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    I like that!
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Show voter details
16 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#5247
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        \n
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        \n
        ---\n
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        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
        Partnered Communities:\n
        ----------------------\n
        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
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        \n
        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
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    I like that!
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Show voter details
17 DENIED ROLE_USER 
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Show voter details
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        \n
        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
        Partnered Communities:\n
        ----------------------\n
        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
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        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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19 DENIED edit 
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        \n
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        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
        Partnered Communities:\n
        ----------------------\n
        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
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        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
20 DENIED moderate 
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        A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
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        \n
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        \n
        **Rules: (interactive)**\n
        ------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
        Partnered Communities:\n
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        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
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        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
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        \n
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        \n
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        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
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        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
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        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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Show voter details
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        \n
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        \n
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        \n
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        ---\n
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        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
        Partnered Communities:\n
        ----------------------\n
        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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Show voter details
30 DENIED moderate 
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        \n
        ---\n
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        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
        Partnered Communities:\n
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        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
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        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
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        [web.mit.edu/people/dpolicar/…/godTaoist.html](https://web.mit.edu/people/dpolicar/writing/prose/text/godTaoist.html)
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
31 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#5408
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    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1970 …}
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        A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
        -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        **Rules: (interactive)**\n
        ------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
        \n
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        2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
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        ---\n
        \n
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        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
        Partnered Communities:\n
        ----------------------\n
        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
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        It’s one of the things everybody struggeling with the free will vs determinism should read.\n
        \n
        [web.mit.edu/people/dpolicar/…/godTaoist.html](https://web.mit.edu/people/dpolicar/writing/prose/text/godTaoist.html)
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
32 DENIED moderate 
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        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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        4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
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        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
        Partnered Communities:\n
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        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
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        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
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        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
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        It’s one of the things everybody struggeling with the free will vs determinism should read.\n
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        [web.mit.edu/people/dpolicar/…/godTaoist.html](https://web.mit.edu/people/dpolicar/writing/prose/text/godTaoist.html)
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
33 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
34 DENIED moderate 
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        \n
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        \n
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        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
        Partnered Communities:\n
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        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
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          Let him read the following dialog between God and a mortal considering determinism. It’s actually not very theistic, but merely presenting the free will problem in a logical manner.\n
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          \n
          It’s one of the things everybody struggeling with the free will vs determinism should read.\n
          \n
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"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
35 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#5524
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        A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
        -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        **Rules: (interactive)**\n
        ------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
        Partnered Communities:\n
        ----------------------\n
        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
        """
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          Let him read the following dialog between God and a mortal considering determinism. It’s actually not very theistic, but merely presenting the free will problem in a logical manner.\n
          \n
          It’s by logician Raymond Smullyan and it shows how untenable the position of extreme determinism is, without polarizing.\n
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          It’s one of the things everybody struggeling with the free will vs determinism should read.\n
          \n
          [web.mit.edu/people/dpolicar/…/godTaoist.html](https://web.mit.edu/people/dpolicar/writing/prose/text/godTaoist.html)
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"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
36 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#5524
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      +title: "asklemmy"
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        A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
        -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        **Rules: (interactive)**\n
        ------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
        \n
        ---\n
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        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
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        Partnered Communities:\n
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        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
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          It’s one of the things everybody struggeling with the free will vs determinism should read.\n
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        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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        \n
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        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
        \n
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        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
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            Let him read the following dialog between God and a mortal considering determinism. It’s actually not very theistic, but merely presenting the free will problem in a logical manner.\n
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            [web.mit.edu/people/dpolicar/…/godTaoist.html](https://web.mit.edu/people/dpolicar/writing/prose/text/godTaoist.html)
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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39 DENIED edit 
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        A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
        -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        **Rules: (interactive)**\n
        ------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
        \n
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        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
        \n
        ---\n
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        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
        Partnered Communities:\n
        ----------------------\n
        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
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        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
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        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
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            Let him read the following dialog between God and a mortal considering determinism. It’s actually not very theistic, but merely presenting the free will problem in a logical manner.\n
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            It’s by logician Raymond Smullyan and it shows how untenable the position of extreme determinism is, without polarizing.\n
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            It’s one of the things everybody struggeling with the free will vs determinism should read.\n
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            [web.mit.edu/people/dpolicar/…/godTaoist.html](https://web.mit.edu/people/dpolicar/writing/prose/text/godTaoist.html)
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
40 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#5622
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      +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.world"
      +title: "asklemmy"
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        A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
        -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        **Rules: (interactive)**\n
        ------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
        \n
        ---\n
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        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
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        Partnered Communities:\n
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        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
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        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
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        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
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            Let him read the following dialog between God and a mortal considering determinism. It’s actually not very theistic, but merely presenting the free will problem in a logical manner.\n
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            It’s one of the things everybody struggeling with the free will vs determinism should read.\n
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            [web.mit.edu/people/dpolicar/…/godTaoist.html](https://web.mit.edu/people/dpolicar/writing/prose/text/godTaoist.html)
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        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
        \n
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        \n
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        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
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        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
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            [web.mit.edu/people/dpolicar/…/godTaoist.html](https://web.mit.edu/people/dpolicar/writing/prose/text/godTaoist.html)
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"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
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Show voter details
43 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#5637
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        A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
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        **Rules: (interactive)**\n
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        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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        4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
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        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
        \n
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        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
        Partnered Communities:\n
        ----------------------\n
        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
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        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
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        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
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            Let him read the following dialog between God and a mortal considering determinism. It’s actually not very theistic, but merely presenting the free will problem in a logical manner.\n
            \n
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            It’s one of the things everybody struggeling with the free will vs determinism should read.\n
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            [web.mit.edu/people/dpolicar/…/godTaoist.html](https://web.mit.edu/people/dpolicar/writing/prose/text/godTaoist.html)
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"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
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        A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
        -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        **Rules: (interactive)**\n
        ------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
        \n
        ---\n
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        3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
        Partnered Communities:\n
        ----------------------\n
        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
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        \n
        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
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            Let him read the following dialog between God and a mortal considering determinism. It’s actually not very theistic, but merely presenting the free will problem in a logical manner.\n
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            It’s by logician Raymond Smullyan and it shows how untenable the position of extreme determinism is, without polarizing.\n
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            It’s one of the things everybody struggeling with the free will vs determinism should read.\n
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            [web.mit.edu/people/dpolicar/…/godTaoist.html](https://web.mit.edu/people/dpolicar/writing/prose/text/godTaoist.html)
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45 DENIED ROLE_USER 
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46 DENIED moderate 
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        -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        **Rules: (interactive)**\n
        ------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
        \n
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        \n
        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
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        ----------------------\n
        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
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        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
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49 DENIED ROLE_USER 
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        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
        Partnered Communities:\n
        ----------------------\n
        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
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        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
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        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
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Show voter details
55 DENIED edit 
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        \n
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        \n
        ---\n
        \n
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        \n
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        \n
        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
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        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
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        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
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Show voter details
56 DENIED moderate 
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        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
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        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
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        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
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        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
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61 DENIED ROLE_USER 
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62 DENIED moderate 
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        \n
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        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
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        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
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63 DENIED edit 
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        A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
        -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        **Rules: (interactive)**\n
        ------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
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        Partnered Communities:\n
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Show voter details
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70 DENIED moderate 
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        \n
        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
        Partnered Communities:\n
        ----------------------\n
        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
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        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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Show voter details
71 DENIED edit 
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        \n
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        \n
        ---\n
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        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
        Partnered Communities:\n
        ----------------------\n
        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
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        \n
        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
72 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#4652
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        \n
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        \n
        ---\n
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        \n
        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
        Partnered Communities:\n
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        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
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        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
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    Any claim can be inverted, so lacking evidence in either direction, this applies to the inverse as well.\n
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    I personally prefer more psychologically rooted arguments that lean towards at least compatibilism. If a belief in free will, regardless of the actual fact, is sufficient to affect one’s actions, is that not evidence against hard determinism?
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76 DENIED moderate 
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        \n
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        ---\n
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        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
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        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
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    Any claim can be inverted, so lacking evidence in either direction, this applies to the inverse as well.\n
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    I personally prefer more psychologically rooted arguments that lean towards at least compatibilism. If a belief in free will, regardless of the actual fact, is sufficient to affect one’s actions, is that not evidence against hard determinism?
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77 DENIED ROLE_USER 
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78 DENIED moderate 
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        \n
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        ------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
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        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
        Partnered Communities:\n
        ----------------------\n
        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
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        \n
        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
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      Any claim can be inverted, so lacking evidence in either direction, this applies to the inverse as well.\n
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      I personally prefer more psychologically rooted arguments that lean towards at least compatibilism. If a belief in free will, regardless of the actual fact, is sufficient to affect one’s actions, is that not evidence against hard determinism?
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        \n
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        \n
        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
        Partnered Communities:\n
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        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
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      Any claim can be inverted, so lacking evidence in either direction, this applies to the inverse as well.\n
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      I personally prefer more psychologically rooted arguments that lean towards at least compatibilism. If a belief in free will, regardless of the actual fact, is sufficient to affect one’s actions, is that not evidence against hard determinism?
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        ---\n
        \n
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        ------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
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        \n
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        \n
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        \n
        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
        Partnered Communities:\n
        ----------------------\n
        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
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      Any claim can be inverted, so lacking evidence in either direction, this applies to the inverse as well.\n
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      I personally prefer more psychologically rooted arguments that lean towards at least compatibilism. If a belief in free will, regardless of the actual fact, is sufficient to affect one’s actions, is that not evidence against hard determinism?
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        **Rules: (interactive)**\n
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        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
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        Any claim can be inverted, so lacking evidence in either direction, this applies to the inverse as well.\n
        \n
        I personally prefer more psychologically rooted arguments that lean towards at least compatibilism. If a belief in free will, regardless of the actual fact, is sufficient to affect one’s actions, is that not evidence against hard determinism?
        """
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        A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
        -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        **Rules: (interactive)**\n
        ------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
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        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
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        Any claim can be inverted, so lacking evidence in either direction, this applies to the inverse as well.\n
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        I personally prefer more psychologically rooted arguments that lean towards at least compatibilism. If a belief in free will, regardless of the actual fact, is sufficient to affect one’s actions, is that not evidence against hard determinism?
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  +body: "Sure, but the compatibilist view is, in my understanding, that determinism is true, but we still have free will. The mind is so complex its deterministic function can’t be fully predicted, so the outcome of particular inputs over any meaningful duration cannot be computed. Thus actual free will and the illusion of free are essentially functionally identical."
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        I personally prefer more psychologically rooted arguments that lean towards at least compatibilism. If a belief in free will, regardless of the actual fact, is sufficient to affect one’s actions, is that not evidence against hard determinism?
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85 DENIED ROLE_USER 
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        A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
        -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        **Rules: (interactive)**\n
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        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
        \n
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        2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
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        ---\n
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        4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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          Any claim can be inverted, so lacking evidence in either direction, this applies to the inverse as well.\n
          \n
          I personally prefer more psychologically rooted arguments that lean towards at least compatibilism. If a belief in free will, regardless of the actual fact, is sufficient to affect one’s actions, is that not evidence against hard determinism?
          """
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    +body: "Sure, but the compatibilist view is, in my understanding, that determinism is true, but we still have free will. The mind is so complex its deterministic function can’t be fully predicted, so the outcome of particular inputs over any meaningful duration cannot be computed. Thus actual free will and the illusion of free are essentially functionally identical."
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      "@conciselyverbose@kbin.social"
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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Show voter details
87 DENIED edit 
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      +title: "asklemmy"
      +description: """
        A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
        -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        **Rules: (interactive)**\n
        ------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
        \n
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        2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
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        3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
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        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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        Partnered Communities:\n
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          Any claim can be inverted, so lacking evidence in either direction, this applies to the inverse as well.\n
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          I personally prefer more psychologically rooted arguments that lean towards at least compatibilism. If a belief in free will, regardless of the actual fact, is sufficient to affect one’s actions, is that not evidence against hard determinism?
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        +body: """
          Any claim can be inverted, so lacking evidence in either direction, this applies to the inverse as well.\n
          \n
          I personally prefer more psychologically rooted arguments that lean towards at least compatibilism. If a belief in free will, regardless of the actual fact, is sufficient to affect one’s actions, is that not evidence against hard determinism?
          """
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    +body: "Sure, but the compatibilist view is, in my understanding, that determinism is true, but we still have free will. The mind is so complex its deterministic function can’t be fully predicted, so the outcome of particular inputs over any meaningful duration cannot be computed. Thus actual free will and the illusion of free are essentially functionally identical."
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  +body: "This is all just pointless speculation."
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Show voter details
89 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
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90 DENIED moderate 
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        A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
        -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        **Rules: (interactive)**\n
        ------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
        Partnered Communities:\n
        ----------------------\n
        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
        """
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      Any claim can be inverted, so lacking evidence in either direction, this applies to the inverse as well.\n
      \n
      I personally prefer more psychologically rooted arguments that lean towards at least compatibilism. If a belief in free will, regardless of the actual fact, is sufficient to affect one’s actions, is that not evidence against hard determinism?
      """
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
91 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#5330
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#5331 …}
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    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1970 …}
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      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#246 …}
      +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.world"
      +title: "asklemmy"
      +description: """
        A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
        -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        **Rules: (interactive)**\n
        ------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
        Partnered Communities:\n
        ----------------------\n
        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
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      Any claim can be inverted, so lacking evidence in either direction, this applies to the inverse as well.\n
      \n
      I personally prefer more psychologically rooted arguments that lean towards at least compatibilism. If a belief in free will, regardless of the actual fact, is sufficient to affect one’s actions, is that not evidence against hard determinism?
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
92 DENIED moderate 
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        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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        4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
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        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
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        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
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        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
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        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
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        \n
        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
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      Any claim can be inverted, so lacking evidence in either direction, this applies to the inverse as well.\n
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      I personally prefer more psychologically rooted arguments that lean towards at least compatibilism. If a belief in free will, regardless of the actual fact, is sufficient to affect one’s actions, is that not evidence against hard determinism?
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"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
93 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
94 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#5463
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        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
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        I personally prefer more psychologically rooted arguments that lean towards at least compatibilism. If a belief in free will, regardless of the actual fact, is sufficient to affect one’s actions, is that not evidence against hard determinism?
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        ---\n
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        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
96 DENIED moderate 
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        A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
        -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        **Rules: (interactive)**\n
        ------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
        \n
        ---\n
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        2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
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        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
        Partnered Communities:\n
        ----------------------\n
        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
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        \n
        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        ---\n
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        Any claim can be inverted, so lacking evidence in either direction, this applies to the inverse as well.\n
        \n
        I personally prefer more psychologically rooted arguments that lean towards at least compatibilism. If a belief in free will, regardless of the actual fact, is sufficient to affect one’s actions, is that not evidence against hard determinism?
        """
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    "@xigoi@lemmy.sdf.org"
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}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
97 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
98 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#5577
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      +title: "asklemmy"
      +description: """
        A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
        -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        **Rules: (interactive)**\n
        ------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
        \n
        ---\n
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        \n
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        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
        Partnered Communities:\n
        ----------------------\n
        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
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        ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
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          I personally prefer more psychologically rooted arguments that lean towards at least compatibilism. If a belief in free will, regardless of the actual fact, is sufficient to affect one’s actions, is that not evidence against hard determinism?
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        A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
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        **Rules: (interactive)**\n
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        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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        ---\n
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        2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
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        4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
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        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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          Any claim can be inverted, so lacking evidence in either direction, this applies to the inverse as well.\n
          \n
          I personally prefer more psychologically rooted arguments that lean towards at least compatibilism. If a belief in free will, regardless of the actual fact, is sufficient to affect one’s actions, is that not evidence against hard determinism?
          """
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"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
101 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
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Show voter details
102 DENIED moderate 
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      +title: "asklemmy"
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        A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
        -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        **Rules: (interactive)**\n
        ------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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        ---\n
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        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
        \n
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        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
        Partnered Communities:\n
        ----------------------\n
        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
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        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
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        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
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            Any claim can be inverted, so lacking evidence in either direction, this applies to the inverse as well.\n
            \n
            I personally prefer more psychologically rooted arguments that lean towards at least compatibilism. If a belief in free will, regardless of the actual fact, is sufficient to affect one’s actions, is that not evidence against hard determinism?
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        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
        \n
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        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
        Partnered Communities:\n
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        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
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        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
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            Any claim can be inverted, so lacking evidence in either direction, this applies to the inverse as well.\n
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            I personally prefer more psychologically rooted arguments that lean towards at least compatibilism. If a belief in free will, regardless of the actual fact, is sufficient to affect one’s actions, is that not evidence against hard determinism?
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            Any claim can be inverted, so lacking evidence in either direction, this applies to the inverse as well.\n
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            I personally prefer more psychologically rooted arguments that lean towards at least compatibilism. If a belief in free will, regardless of the actual fact, is sufficient to affect one’s actions, is that not evidence against hard determinism?
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        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
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        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
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        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
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    What’s the best response? The best response is to laugh in their face and go find someone else to talk to.\n
    \n
    The person you described is an idiot. Can you tell whether a person actually has free will by observing their actions? Like just by looking at them, can you predict exactly everything that they’re going to do?\n
    \n
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    """
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        \n
        ---\n
        \n
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    What’s the best response? The best response is to laugh in their face and go find someone else to talk to.\n
    \n
    The person you described is an idiot. Can you tell whether a person actually has free will by observing their actions? Like just by looking at them, can you predict exactly everything that they’re going to do?\n
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    (This is actually almost identical a famous problem in philosophy called the “philosophical zombie.”)\n
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    If the answer is “no”, and it is, then it doesn’t make sense to base your actions based on whether you have free will, because it doesn’t actually have any effect in your daily life, other than to irritate other people with your pseudo intellectual babble.
    """
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108 DENIED moderate 
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        \n
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        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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        \n
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        \n
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        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
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        ---\n
        \n
        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
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    What’s the best response? The best response is to laugh in their face and go find someone else to talk to.\n
    \n
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    \n
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Show voter details
109 DENIED ROLE_USER 
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110 DENIED moderate 
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        A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
        -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        **Rules: (interactive)**\n
        ------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
        Partnered Communities:\n
        ----------------------\n
        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
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        \n
        ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
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111 DENIED edit 
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        A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
        -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        **Rules: (interactive)**\n
        ------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
        Partnered Communities:\n
        ----------------------\n
        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
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        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
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        \n
        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
        Partnered Communities:\n
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        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
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        \n
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        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
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null
 
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Show voter details
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        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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Show voter details
119 DENIED edit 
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        \n
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        \n
        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
        Partnered Communities:\n
        ----------------------\n
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        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
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        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
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        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
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Show voter details
120 DENIED moderate 
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        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
        Partnered Communities:\n
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        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
121 DENIED ROLE_USER 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
122 DENIED moderate 
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        \n
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        ------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
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        \n
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        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
        Partnered Communities:\n
        ----------------------\n
        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
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        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
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"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
123 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#5478
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        -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        **Rules: (interactive)**\n
        ------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
        \n
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        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
        \n
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        \n
        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
        Partnered Communities:\n
        ----------------------\n
        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        ---\n
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"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
124 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#5478
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        A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
        -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        **Rules: (interactive)**\n
        ------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
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        \n
        ---\n
        \n
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        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
        Partnered Communities:\n
        ----------------------\n
        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
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        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
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        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
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        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
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        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
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        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
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        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
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        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
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    I’m a fairly hardcore/radical determinist, and tend to agree that individuals shouldn’t be held morally responsible for actions, any more than a hammer is morally responsible for driving a nail. However, that does not mean people should be free from *consequence*. There are plenty of reasons - even as a hardcore determinist - to hold people to account for their actions, either as a social corrective mechanism, public safety, deterrent, or personal sanity.\n
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      I’m a fairly hardcore/radical determinist, and tend to agree that individuals shouldn’t be held morally responsible for actions, any more than a hammer is morally responsible for driving a nail. However, that does not mean people should be free from *consequence*. There are plenty of reasons - even as a hardcore determinist - to hold people to account for their actions, either as a social corrective mechanism, public safety, deterrent, or personal sanity.\n
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    This is a great answer.\n
    \n
    Just like someone’s immoral actions are preordained, the consequences are too.
    """
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        \n
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        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
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      As for getting their actions to align with your morals, that’s a more complicated question that depends on the type of person they are.
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    This is a great answer.\n
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    Just like someone’s immoral actions are preordained, the consequences are too.
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        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
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        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
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    This is a great answer.\n
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    Just like someone’s immoral actions are preordained, the consequences are too.
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        \n
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        ------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
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        \n
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        \n
        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
        Partnered Communities:\n
        ----------------------\n
        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
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        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
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        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
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        I’m a fairly hardcore/radical determinist, and tend to agree that individuals shouldn’t be held morally responsible for actions, any more than a hammer is morally responsible for driving a nail. However, that does not mean people should be free from *consequence*. There are plenty of reasons - even as a hardcore determinist - to hold people to account for their actions, either as a social corrective mechanism, public safety, deterrent, or personal sanity.\n
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    What drives the thing that drives the hammer? What drives the thing that drives the thing that drives the hammer? What drives the thing that drives the thing that drives the thing that drives the hammer?\n
    \n
    Physical processes out of our control.
    """
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147 DENIED edit 
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        \n
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        \n
        ---\n
        \n
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        \n
        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
        Partnered Communities:\n
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        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
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        I’m a fairly hardcore/radical determinist, and tend to agree that individuals shouldn’t be held morally responsible for actions, any more than a hammer is morally responsible for driving a nail. However, that does not mean people should be free from *consequence*. There are plenty of reasons - even as a hardcore determinist - to hold people to account for their actions, either as a social corrective mechanism, public safety, deterrent, or personal sanity.\n
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        As for getting their actions to align with your morals, that’s a more complicated question that depends on the type of person they are.
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    What drives the thing that drives the hammer? What drives the thing that drives the thing that drives the hammer? What drives the thing that drives the thing that drives the thing that drives the hammer?\n
    \n
    Physical processes out of our control.
    """
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
148 DENIED moderate 
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        -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        **Rules: (interactive)**\n
        ------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
        Partnered Communities:\n
        ----------------------\n
        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
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        I’m a fairly hardcore/radical determinist, and tend to agree that individuals shouldn’t be held morally responsible for actions, any more than a hammer is morally responsible for driving a nail. However, that does not mean people should be free from *consequence*. There are plenty of reasons - even as a hardcore determinist - to hold people to account for their actions, either as a social corrective mechanism, public safety, deterrent, or personal sanity.\n
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  +body: """
    What drives the thing that drives the hammer? What drives the thing that drives the thing that drives the hammer? What drives the thing that drives the thing that drives the thing that drives the hammer?\n
    \n
    Physical processes out of our control.
    """
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
149 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
150 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#5377
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      +title: "asklemmy"
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        A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
        -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        **Rules: (interactive)**\n
        ------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
        \n
        ---\n
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        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
        \n
        ---\n
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        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
        Partnered Communities:\n
        ----------------------\n
        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
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        \n
        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
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        ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
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        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
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        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
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        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
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        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
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        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
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152 DENIED moderate 
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        \n
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        4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
        Partnered Communities:\n
        ----------------------\n
        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
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        I’m a fairly hardcore/radical determinist, and tend to agree that individuals shouldn’t be held morally responsible for actions, any more than a hammer is morally responsible for driving a nail. However, that does not mean people should be free from *consequence*. There are plenty of reasons - even as a hardcore determinist - to hold people to account for their actions, either as a social corrective mechanism, public safety, deterrent, or personal sanity.\n
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        As for getting their actions to align with your morals, that’s a more complicated question that depends on the type of person they are.
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  +body: "Well, I blame the nails. They’re just asking for it."
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        \n
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        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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        2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
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        4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
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        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
        Partnered Communities:\n
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        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
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        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
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      I’m a fairly hardcore/radical determinist, and tend to agree that individuals shouldn’t be held morally responsible for actions, any more than a hammer is morally responsible for driving a nail. However, that does not mean people should be free from *consequence*. There are plenty of reasons - even as a hardcore determinist - to hold people to account for their actions, either as a social corrective mechanism, public safety, deterrent, or personal sanity.\n
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
155 DENIED edit 
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        A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
        -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        **Rules: (interactive)**\n
        ------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
        \n
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        \n
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        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
        \n
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        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
        Partnered Communities:\n
        ----------------------\n
        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
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      I’m a fairly hardcore/radical determinist, and tend to agree that individuals shouldn’t be held morally responsible for actions, any more than a hammer is morally responsible for driving a nail. However, that does not mean people should be free from *consequence*. There are plenty of reasons - even as a hardcore determinist - to hold people to account for their actions, either as a social corrective mechanism, public safety, deterrent, or personal sanity.\n
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
156 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#5135
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        A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
        -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        **Rules: (interactive)**\n
        ------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
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        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
        Partnered Communities:\n
        ----------------------\n
        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
        """
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      I’m a fairly hardcore/radical determinist, and tend to agree that individuals shouldn’t be held morally responsible for actions, any more than a hammer is morally responsible for driving a nail. However, that does not mean people should be free from *consequence*. There are plenty of reasons - even as a hardcore determinist - to hold people to account for their actions, either as a social corrective mechanism, public safety, deterrent, or personal sanity.\n
      \n
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
157 DENIED ROLE_USER 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
158 DENIED moderate 
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        -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
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        ---\n
        \n
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        ------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
        Partnered Communities:\n
        ----------------------\n
        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
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        I’m a fairly hardcore/radical determinist, and tend to agree that individuals shouldn’t be held morally responsible for actions, any more than a hammer is morally responsible for driving a nail. However, that does not mean people should be free from *consequence*. There are plenty of reasons - even as a hardcore determinist - to hold people to account for their actions, either as a social corrective mechanism, public safety, deterrent, or personal sanity.\n
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    +body: "How does a hardcore determinist believe in “shouldn’t?” Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?"
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  +body: """
    > Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?\n
    \n
    My answer changes depending on your meaning but:\n
    \n
    Of course. My brain is constantly updating and improving itself. I’m just not ultimately in control of how that process happens. Though that does not mean that I should stop living. I can still experience and enjoy my life, and ‘choose’ to improve it. It’s just that the I that made that choice is a consequence of my brain calculating optimal paths based on a myriad of factors: genetics, culture, circumstance, biological drives, personal history, drugs, etc.
    """
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Show voter details
159 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#5393
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        A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
        -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        **Rules: (interactive)**\n
        ------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
        \n
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        \n
        ---\n
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        \n
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        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
        Partnered Communities:\n
        ----------------------\n
        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
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        I’m a fairly hardcore/radical determinist, and tend to agree that individuals shouldn’t be held morally responsible for actions, any more than a hammer is morally responsible for driving a nail. However, that does not mean people should be free from *consequence*. There are plenty of reasons - even as a hardcore determinist - to hold people to account for their actions, either as a social corrective mechanism, public safety, deterrent, or personal sanity.\n
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  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4944}
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    > Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?\n
    \n
    My answer changes depending on your meaning but:\n
    \n
    Of course. My brain is constantly updating and improving itself. I’m just not ultimately in control of how that process happens. Though that does not mean that I should stop living. I can still experience and enjoy my life, and ‘choose’ to improve it. It’s just that the I that made that choice is a consequence of my brain calculating optimal paths based on a myriad of factors: genetics, culture, circumstance, biological drives, personal history, drugs, etc.
    """
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}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
160 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#5393
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        A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
        -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        **Rules: (interactive)**\n
        ------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
        \n
        ---\n
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        3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
        Partnered Communities:\n
        ----------------------\n
        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
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    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#1915 …}
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    +url: null
    +body: "That is, they think all of their decisions were preordained, and then use this to claim that they can’t be held responsible for anything they do."
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        I’m a fairly hardcore/radical determinist, and tend to agree that individuals shouldn’t be held morally responsible for actions, any more than a hammer is morally responsible for driving a nail. However, that does not mean people should be free from *consequence*. There are plenty of reasons - even as a hardcore determinist - to hold people to account for their actions, either as a social corrective mechanism, public safety, deterrent, or personal sanity.\n
        \n
        As for getting their actions to align with your morals, that’s a more complicated question that depends on the type of person they are.
        """
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    +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4944}
    +body: "How does a hardcore determinist believe in “shouldn’t?” Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?"
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  }
  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4944}
  +body: """
    > Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?\n
    \n
    My answer changes depending on your meaning but:\n
    \n
    Of course. My brain is constantly updating and improving itself. I’m just not ultimately in control of how that process happens. Though that does not mean that I should stop living. I can still experience and enjoy my life, and ‘choose’ to improve it. It’s just that the I that made that choice is a consequence of my brain calculating optimal paths based on a myriad of factors: genetics, culture, circumstance, biological drives, personal history, drugs, etc.
    """
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}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
161 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
162 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#5494
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        A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
        -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        **Rules: (interactive)**\n
        ------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
        \n
        ---\n
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        2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
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        \n
        ---\n
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        4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
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        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
        Partnered Communities:\n
        ----------------------\n
        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
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        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
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        ---\n
        \n
        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
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          I’m a fairly hardcore/radical determinist, and tend to agree that individuals shouldn’t be held morally responsible for actions, any more than a hammer is morally responsible for driving a nail. However, that does not mean people should be free from *consequence*. There are plenty of reasons - even as a hardcore determinist - to hold people to account for their actions, either as a social corrective mechanism, public safety, deterrent, or personal sanity.\n
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          As for getting their actions to align with your morals, that’s a more complicated question that depends on the type of person they are.
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      > Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?\n
      \n
      My answer changes depending on your meaning but:\n
      \n
      Of course. My brain is constantly updating and improving itself. I’m just not ultimately in control of how that process happens. Though that does not mean that I should stop living. I can still experience and enjoy my life, and ‘choose’ to improve it. It’s just that the I that made that choice is a consequence of my brain calculating optimal paths based on a myriad of factors: genetics, culture, circumstance, biological drives, personal history, drugs, etc.
      """
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    Let’s say you see someone playing in traffic, and tell them they shouldn’t be doing that. They respond, “I can’t not do it, because my brain already made the decision to do it, so I have no choice but to do it.”\n
    \n
    Is this person correct? Or do they have the ability to just follow your advice and stop playing? Do they have the ability to ignore your advice and keep playing? If they have the ability to do both, then to what degree can we say that your advice is determining their choice? How can we say that choice is determined if we can also say that they should make a different choice?
    """
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        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
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        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
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        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
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          I’m a fairly hardcore/radical determinist, and tend to agree that individuals shouldn’t be held morally responsible for actions, any more than a hammer is morally responsible for driving a nail. However, that does not mean people should be free from *consequence*. There are plenty of reasons - even as a hardcore determinist - to hold people to account for their actions, either as a social corrective mechanism, public safety, deterrent, or personal sanity.\n
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      > Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?\n
      \n
      My answer changes depending on your meaning but:\n
      \n
      Of course. My brain is constantly updating and improving itself. I’m just not ultimately in control of how that process happens. Though that does not mean that I should stop living. I can still experience and enjoy my life, and ‘choose’ to improve it. It’s just that the I that made that choice is a consequence of my brain calculating optimal paths based on a myriad of factors: genetics, culture, circumstance, biological drives, personal history, drugs, etc.
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  }
  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4944}
  +body: """
    Let’s say you see someone playing in traffic, and tell them they shouldn’t be doing that. They respond, “I can’t not do it, because my brain already made the decision to do it, so I have no choice but to do it.”\n
    \n
    Is this person correct? Or do they have the ability to just follow your advice and stop playing? Do they have the ability to ignore your advice and keep playing? If they have the ability to do both, then to what degree can we say that your advice is determining their choice? How can we say that choice is determined if we can also say that they should make a different choice?
    """
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    date: 2023-10-13 17:22:53.0 +02:00
  }
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
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"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
164 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#5494
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      +title: "asklemmy"
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        A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
        -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        **Rules: (interactive)**\n
        ------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
        Partnered Communities:\n
        ----------------------\n
        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
        """
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        date: 2023-10-13 08:03:47.0 +02:00
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    }
    +image: null
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#1915 …}
    +slug: "What-s-the-best-response-to-someone-who-believes-in-hard"
    +title: "What's the best response to someone who believes in hard determinism but also uses this to deny responsibility for any immoral actions they commit?"
    +url: null
    +body: "That is, they think all of their decisions were preordained, and then use this to claim that they can’t be held responsible for anything they do."
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  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265}
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  +parent: App\Entity\EntryComment {#5393
    +user: App\Entity\User {#4957 …}
    +entry: App\Entity\Entry {#2419}
    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265}
    +image: null
    +parent: App\Entity\EntryComment {#5135
      +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#5136 …}
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        +user: App\Entity\User {#4957 …}
        +entry: App\Entity\Entry {#2419}
        +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265}
        +image: null
        +parent: null
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        +body: """
          I’m a fairly hardcore/radical determinist, and tend to agree that individuals shouldn’t be held morally responsible for actions, any more than a hammer is morally responsible for driving a nail. However, that does not mean people should be free from *consequence*. There are plenty of reasons - even as a hardcore determinist - to hold people to account for their actions, either as a social corrective mechanism, public safety, deterrent, or personal sanity.\n
          \n
          As for getting their actions to align with your morals, that’s a more complicated question that depends on the type of person they are.
          """
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          date: 2023-10-13 08:44:09.0 +02:00
        }
      }
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4944}
      +body: "How does a hardcore determinist believe in “shouldn’t?” Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?"
      +lang: "en"
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        "@PlogLod@lemmy.world"
        "@bogdugg@sh.itjust.works"
      ]
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        date: 2023-10-13 13:22:03.0 +02:00
      }
    }
    +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4944}
    +body: """
      > Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?\n
      \n
      My answer changes depending on your meaning but:\n
      \n
      Of course. My brain is constantly updating and improving itself. I’m just not ultimately in control of how that process happens. Though that does not mean that I should stop living. I can still experience and enjoy my life, and ‘choose’ to improve it. It’s just that the I that made that choice is a consequence of my brain calculating optimal paths based on a myriad of factors: genetics, culture, circumstance, biological drives, personal history, drugs, etc.
      """
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      "@bogdugg@sh.itjust.works"
      "@Moobythegoldensock@lemm.ee"
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    +ranking: 0
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697207330 {#5392
      date: 2023-10-13 16:28:50.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4944}
  +body: """
    Let’s say you see someone playing in traffic, and tell them they shouldn’t be doing that. They respond, “I can’t not do it, because my brain already made the decision to do it, so I have no choice but to do it.”\n
    \n
    Is this person correct? Or do they have the ability to just follow your advice and stop playing? Do they have the ability to ignore your advice and keep playing? If they have the ability to do both, then to what degree can we say that your advice is determining their choice? How can we say that choice is determined if we can also say that they should make a different choice?
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
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    date: 2023-10-13 17:22:53.0 +02:00
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    "@bogdugg@sh.itjust.works"
    "@Moobythegoldensock@lemm.ee"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#5495 …}
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  +ranking: 0
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  +visibility: "visible             "
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  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697210573 {#5493
    date: 2023-10-13 17:22:53.0 +02:00
  }
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
165 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
166 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#5592
  +user: App\Entity\User {#4957 …}
  +entry: App\Entity\Entry {#2419
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1970 …}
    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265
      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#246 …}
      +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.world"
      +title: "asklemmy"
      +description: """
        A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
        -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        **Rules: (interactive)**\n
        ------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
        Partnered Communities:\n
        ----------------------\n
        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
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        ---\n
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            I’m a fairly hardcore/radical determinist, and tend to agree that individuals shouldn’t be held morally responsible for actions, any more than a hammer is morally responsible for driving a nail. However, that does not mean people should be free from *consequence*. There are plenty of reasons - even as a hardcore determinist - to hold people to account for their actions, either as a social corrective mechanism, public safety, deterrent, or personal sanity.\n
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            As for getting their actions to align with your morals, that’s a more complicated question that depends on the type of person they are.
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        > Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?\n
        \n
        My answer changes depending on your meaning but:\n
        \n
        Of course. My brain is constantly updating and improving itself. I’m just not ultimately in control of how that process happens. Though that does not mean that I should stop living. I can still experience and enjoy my life, and ‘choose’ to improve it. It’s just that the I that made that choice is a consequence of my brain calculating optimal paths based on a myriad of factors: genetics, culture, circumstance, biological drives, personal history, drugs, etc.
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      Let’s say you see someone playing in traffic, and tell them they shouldn’t be doing that. They respond, “I can’t not do it, because my brain already made the decision to do it, so I have no choice but to do it.”\n
      \n
      Is this person correct? Or do they have the ability to just follow your advice and stop playing? Do they have the ability to ignore your advice and keep playing? If they have the ability to do both, then to what degree can we say that your advice is determining their choice? How can we say that choice is determined if we can also say that they should make a different choice?
      """
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        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
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            I’m a fairly hardcore/radical determinist, and tend to agree that individuals shouldn’t be held morally responsible for actions, any more than a hammer is morally responsible for driving a nail. However, that does not mean people should be free from *consequence*. There are plenty of reasons - even as a hardcore determinist - to hold people to account for their actions, either as a social corrective mechanism, public safety, deterrent, or personal sanity.\n
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            date: 2023-10-13 08:44:09.0 +02:00
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        +body: "How does a hardcore determinist believe in “shouldn’t?” Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?"
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          date: 2023-10-13 13:22:03.0 +02:00
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      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4944}
      +body: """
        > Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?\n
        \n
        My answer changes depending on your meaning but:\n
        \n
        Of course. My brain is constantly updating and improving itself. I’m just not ultimately in control of how that process happens. Though that does not mean that I should stop living. I can still experience and enjoy my life, and ‘choose’ to improve it. It’s just that the I that made that choice is a consequence of my brain calculating optimal paths based on a myriad of factors: genetics, culture, circumstance, biological drives, personal history, drugs, etc.
        """
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    +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4944}
    +body: """
      Let’s say you see someone playing in traffic, and tell them they shouldn’t be doing that. They respond, “I can’t not do it, because my brain already made the decision to do it, so I have no choice but to do it.”\n
      \n
      Is this person correct? Or do they have the ability to just follow your advice and stop playing? Do they have the ability to ignore your advice and keep playing? If they have the ability to do both, then to what degree can we say that your advice is determining their choice? How can we say that choice is determined if we can also say that they should make a different choice?
      """
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  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4944}
  +body: "We are constantly making and updating our choices in response to new information. Just because the brain decided upon one course of action at one point in time does not preclude it from changing course in the future. That’s just a new choice. All available information is taken into consideration at all points in time."
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}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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168 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#5592
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        A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
        -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        **Rules: (interactive)**\n
        ------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
        \n
        ---\n
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        2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
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        4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
        Partnered Communities:\n
        ----------------------\n
        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
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        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
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        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
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        ---\n
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        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
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    +url: null
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          +body: """
            I’m a fairly hardcore/radical determinist, and tend to agree that individuals shouldn’t be held morally responsible for actions, any more than a hammer is morally responsible for driving a nail. However, that does not mean people should be free from *consequence*. There are plenty of reasons - even as a hardcore determinist - to hold people to account for their actions, either as a social corrective mechanism, public safety, deterrent, or personal sanity.\n
            \n
            As for getting their actions to align with your morals, that’s a more complicated question that depends on the type of person they are.
            """
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        +body: "How does a hardcore determinist believe in “shouldn’t?” Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?"
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      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4944}
      +body: """
        > Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?\n
        \n
        My answer changes depending on your meaning but:\n
        \n
        Of course. My brain is constantly updating and improving itself. I’m just not ultimately in control of how that process happens. Though that does not mean that I should stop living. I can still experience and enjoy my life, and ‘choose’ to improve it. It’s just that the I that made that choice is a consequence of my brain calculating optimal paths based on a myriad of factors: genetics, culture, circumstance, biological drives, personal history, drugs, etc.
        """
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    +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4944}
    +body: """
      Let’s say you see someone playing in traffic, and tell them they shouldn’t be doing that. They respond, “I can’t not do it, because my brain already made the decision to do it, so I have no choice but to do it.”\n
      \n
      Is this person correct? Or do they have the ability to just follow your advice and stop playing? Do they have the ability to ignore your advice and keep playing? If they have the ability to do both, then to what degree can we say that your advice is determining their choice? How can we say that choice is determined if we can also say that they should make a different choice?
      """
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  }
  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4944}
  +body: "We are constantly making and updating our choices in response to new information. Just because the brain decided upon one course of action at one point in time does not preclude it from changing course in the future. That’s just a new choice. All available information is taken into consideration at all points in time."
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}
 
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169 DENIED ROLE_USER 
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#5706
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        A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
        -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        **Rules: (interactive)**\n
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        ---\n
        \n
        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
        \n
        ---\n
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        2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
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        3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
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        4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
        Partnered Communities:\n
        ----------------------\n
        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
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        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
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        ---\n
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        ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
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    +slug: "What-s-the-best-response-to-someone-who-believes-in-hard"
    +title: "What's the best response to someone who believes in hard determinism but also uses this to deny responsibility for any immoral actions they commit?"
    +url: null
    +body: "That is, they think all of their decisions were preordained, and then use this to claim that they can’t be held responsible for anything they do."
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            +body: """
              I’m a fairly hardcore/radical determinist, and tend to agree that individuals shouldn’t be held morally responsible for actions, any more than a hammer is morally responsible for driving a nail. However, that does not mean people should be free from *consequence*. There are plenty of reasons - even as a hardcore determinist - to hold people to account for their actions, either as a social corrective mechanism, public safety, deterrent, or personal sanity.\n
              \n
              As for getting their actions to align with your morals, that’s a more complicated question that depends on the type of person they are.
              """
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          +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4944}
          +body: "How does a hardcore determinist believe in “shouldn’t?” Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?"
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        +body: """
          > Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?\n
          \n
          My answer changes depending on your meaning but:\n
          \n
          Of course. My brain is constantly updating and improving itself. I’m just not ultimately in control of how that process happens. Though that does not mean that I should stop living. I can still experience and enjoy my life, and ‘choose’ to improve it. It’s just that the I that made that choice is a consequence of my brain calculating optimal paths based on a myriad of factors: genetics, culture, circumstance, biological drives, personal history, drugs, etc.
          """
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      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4944}
      +body: """
        Let’s say you see someone playing in traffic, and tell them they shouldn’t be doing that. They respond, “I can’t not do it, because my brain already made the decision to do it, so I have no choice but to do it.”\n
        \n
        Is this person correct? Or do they have the ability to just follow your advice and stop playing? Do they have the ability to ignore your advice and keep playing? If they have the ability to do both, then to what degree can we say that your advice is determining their choice? How can we say that choice is determined if we can also say that they should make a different choice?
        """
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    +body: "We are constantly making and updating our choices in response to new information. Just because the brain decided upon one course of action at one point in time does not preclude it from changing course in the future. That’s just a new choice. All available information is taken into consideration at all points in time."
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  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4944}
  +body: "If our brain can make these choices, then how can we say it is determined to make a specific choice?"
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171 DENIED edit 
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        A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
        -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        **Rules: (interactive)**\n
        ------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
        \n
        ---\n
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        2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
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        4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
        \n
        ---\n
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        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
        Partnered Communities:\n
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        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
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        ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
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    +slug: "What-s-the-best-response-to-someone-who-believes-in-hard"
    +title: "What's the best response to someone who believes in hard determinism but also uses this to deny responsibility for any immoral actions they commit?"
    +url: null
    +body: "That is, they think all of their decisions were preordained, and then use this to claim that they can’t be held responsible for anything they do."
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            +body: """
              I’m a fairly hardcore/radical determinist, and tend to agree that individuals shouldn’t be held morally responsible for actions, any more than a hammer is morally responsible for driving a nail. However, that does not mean people should be free from *consequence*. There are plenty of reasons - even as a hardcore determinist - to hold people to account for their actions, either as a social corrective mechanism, public safety, deterrent, or personal sanity.\n
              \n
              As for getting their actions to align with your morals, that’s a more complicated question that depends on the type of person they are.
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          +body: "How does a hardcore determinist believe in “shouldn’t?” Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?"
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        +body: """
          > Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?\n
          \n
          My answer changes depending on your meaning but:\n
          \n
          Of course. My brain is constantly updating and improving itself. I’m just not ultimately in control of how that process happens. Though that does not mean that I should stop living. I can still experience and enjoy my life, and ‘choose’ to improve it. It’s just that the I that made that choice is a consequence of my brain calculating optimal paths based on a myriad of factors: genetics, culture, circumstance, biological drives, personal history, drugs, etc.
          """
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      +body: """
        Let’s say you see someone playing in traffic, and tell them they shouldn’t be doing that. They respond, “I can’t not do it, because my brain already made the decision to do it, so I have no choice but to do it.”\n
        \n
        Is this person correct? Or do they have the ability to just follow your advice and stop playing? Do they have the ability to ignore your advice and keep playing? If they have the ability to do both, then to what degree can we say that your advice is determining their choice? How can we say that choice is determined if we can also say that they should make a different choice?
        """
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    +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4944}
    +body: "We are constantly making and updating our choices in response to new information. Just because the brain decided upon one course of action at one point in time does not preclude it from changing course in the future. That’s just a new choice. All available information is taken into consideration at all points in time."
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  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4944}
  +body: "If our brain can make these choices, then how can we say it is determined to make a specific choice?"
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
172 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#5706
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      +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.world"
      +title: "asklemmy"
      +description: """
        A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
        -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        **Rules: (interactive)**\n
        ------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
        \n
        ---\n
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        4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
        Partnered Communities:\n
        ----------------------\n
        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
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        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
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              I’m a fairly hardcore/radical determinist, and tend to agree that individuals shouldn’t be held morally responsible for actions, any more than a hammer is morally responsible for driving a nail. However, that does not mean people should be free from *consequence*. There are plenty of reasons - even as a hardcore determinist - to hold people to account for their actions, either as a social corrective mechanism, public safety, deterrent, or personal sanity.\n
              \n
              As for getting their actions to align with your morals, that’s a more complicated question that depends on the type of person they are.
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          +body: "How does a hardcore determinist believe in “shouldn’t?” Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?"
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          > Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?\n
          \n
          My answer changes depending on your meaning but:\n
          \n
          Of course. My brain is constantly updating and improving itself. I’m just not ultimately in control of how that process happens. Though that does not mean that I should stop living. I can still experience and enjoy my life, and ‘choose’ to improve it. It’s just that the I that made that choice is a consequence of my brain calculating optimal paths based on a myriad of factors: genetics, culture, circumstance, biological drives, personal history, drugs, etc.
          """
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        Let’s say you see someone playing in traffic, and tell them they shouldn’t be doing that. They respond, “I can’t not do it, because my brain already made the decision to do it, so I have no choice but to do it.”\n
        \n
        Is this person correct? Or do they have the ability to just follow your advice and stop playing? Do they have the ability to ignore your advice and keep playing? If they have the ability to do both, then to what degree can we say that your advice is determining their choice? How can we say that choice is determined if we can also say that they should make a different choice?
        """
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    +body: "We are constantly making and updating our choices in response to new information. Just because the brain decided upon one course of action at one point in time does not preclude it from changing course in the future. That’s just a new choice. All available information is taken into consideration at all points in time."
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        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
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                I’m a fairly hardcore/radical determinist, and tend to agree that individuals shouldn’t be held morally responsible for actions, any more than a hammer is morally responsible for driving a nail. However, that does not mean people should be free from *consequence*. There are plenty of reasons - even as a hardcore determinist - to hold people to account for their actions, either as a social corrective mechanism, public safety, deterrent, or personal sanity.\n
                \n
                As for getting their actions to align with your morals, that’s a more complicated question that depends on the type of person they are.
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            +body: "How does a hardcore determinist believe in “shouldn’t?” Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?"
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            > Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?\n
            \n
            My answer changes depending on your meaning but:\n
            \n
            Of course. My brain is constantly updating and improving itself. I’m just not ultimately in control of how that process happens. Though that does not mean that I should stop living. I can still experience and enjoy my life, and ‘choose’ to improve it. It’s just that the I that made that choice is a consequence of my brain calculating optimal paths based on a myriad of factors: genetics, culture, circumstance, biological drives, personal history, drugs, etc.
            """
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          Let’s say you see someone playing in traffic, and tell them they shouldn’t be doing that. They respond, “I can’t not do it, because my brain already made the decision to do it, so I have no choice but to do it.”\n
          \n
          Is this person correct? Or do they have the ability to just follow your advice and stop playing? Do they have the ability to ignore your advice and keep playing? If they have the ability to do both, then to what degree can we say that your advice is determining their choice? How can we say that choice is determined if we can also say that they should make a different choice?
          """
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      +body: "We are constantly making and updating our choices in response to new information. Just because the brain decided upon one course of action at one point in time does not preclude it from changing course in the future. That’s just a new choice. All available information is taken into consideration at all points in time."
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  +body: "By determined, I mean it follows a logical set of rules, not that it is set on a specific action. The idea would be that it was determined to make all those choices because everything else is also following the rules of the universe. Just as it was determined that they play in traffic, so was it determined for me to tell them to stop, just as it was determined for them to listen. They didn’t choose to change their mind, they were always going to change their mind."
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                I’m a fairly hardcore/radical determinist, and tend to agree that individuals shouldn’t be held morally responsible for actions, any more than a hammer is morally responsible for driving a nail. However, that does not mean people should be free from *consequence*. There are plenty of reasons - even as a hardcore determinist - to hold people to account for their actions, either as a social corrective mechanism, public safety, deterrent, or personal sanity.\n
                \n
                As for getting their actions to align with your morals, that’s a more complicated question that depends on the type of person they are.
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            +body: "How does a hardcore determinist believe in “shouldn’t?” Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?"
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            > Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?\n
            \n
            My answer changes depending on your meaning but:\n
            \n
            Of course. My brain is constantly updating and improving itself. I’m just not ultimately in control of how that process happens. Though that does not mean that I should stop living. I can still experience and enjoy my life, and ‘choose’ to improve it. It’s just that the I that made that choice is a consequence of my brain calculating optimal paths based on a myriad of factors: genetics, culture, circumstance, biological drives, personal history, drugs, etc.
            """
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          Let’s say you see someone playing in traffic, and tell them they shouldn’t be doing that. They respond, “I can’t not do it, because my brain already made the decision to do it, so I have no choice but to do it.”\n
          \n
          Is this person correct? Or do they have the ability to just follow your advice and stop playing? Do they have the ability to ignore your advice and keep playing? If they have the ability to do both, then to what degree can we say that your advice is determining their choice? How can we say that choice is determined if we can also say that they should make a different choice?
          """
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  +body: "By determined, I mean it follows a logical set of rules, not that it is set on a specific action. The idea would be that it was determined to make all those choices because everything else is also following the rules of the universe. Just as it was determined that they play in traffic, so was it determined for me to tell them to stop, just as it was determined for them to listen. They didn’t choose to change their mind, they were always going to change their mind."
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        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
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                I’m a fairly hardcore/radical determinist, and tend to agree that individuals shouldn’t be held morally responsible for actions, any more than a hammer is morally responsible for driving a nail. However, that does not mean people should be free from *consequence*. There are plenty of reasons - even as a hardcore determinist - to hold people to account for their actions, either as a social corrective mechanism, public safety, deterrent, or personal sanity.\n
                \n
                As for getting their actions to align with your morals, that’s a more complicated question that depends on the type of person they are.
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            }
            +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4944}
            +body: "How does a hardcore determinist believe in “shouldn’t?” Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?"
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          +body: """
            > Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?\n
            \n
            My answer changes depending on your meaning but:\n
            \n
            Of course. My brain is constantly updating and improving itself. I’m just not ultimately in control of how that process happens. Though that does not mean that I should stop living. I can still experience and enjoy my life, and ‘choose’ to improve it. It’s just that the I that made that choice is a consequence of my brain calculating optimal paths based on a myriad of factors: genetics, culture, circumstance, biological drives, personal history, drugs, etc.
            """
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        +body: """
          Let’s say you see someone playing in traffic, and tell them they shouldn’t be doing that. They respond, “I can’t not do it, because my brain already made the decision to do it, so I have no choice but to do it.”\n
          \n
          Is this person correct? Or do they have the ability to just follow your advice and stop playing? Do they have the ability to ignore your advice and keep playing? If they have the ability to do both, then to what degree can we say that your advice is determining their choice? How can we say that choice is determined if we can also say that they should make a different choice?
          """
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      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4944}
      +body: "We are constantly making and updating our choices in response to new information. Just because the brain decided upon one course of action at one point in time does not preclude it from changing course in the future. That’s just a new choice. All available information is taken into consideration at all points in time."
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  +body: "By determined, I mean it follows a logical set of rules, not that it is set on a specific action. The idea would be that it was determined to make all those choices because everything else is also following the rules of the universe. Just as it was determined that they play in traffic, so was it determined for me to tell them to stop, just as it was determined for them to listen. They didn’t choose to change their mind, they were always going to change their mind."
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        A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
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        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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        2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
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        4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
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        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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                +body: """
                  I’m a fairly hardcore/radical determinist, and tend to agree that individuals shouldn’t be held morally responsible for actions, any more than a hammer is morally responsible for driving a nail. However, that does not mean people should be free from *consequence*. There are plenty of reasons - even as a hardcore determinist - to hold people to account for their actions, either as a social corrective mechanism, public safety, deterrent, or personal sanity.\n
                  \n
                  As for getting their actions to align with your morals, that’s a more complicated question that depends on the type of person they are.
                  """
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              +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4944}
              +body: "How does a hardcore determinist believe in “shouldn’t?” Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?"
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            +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4944}
            +body: """
              > Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?\n
              \n
              My answer changes depending on your meaning but:\n
              \n
              Of course. My brain is constantly updating and improving itself. I’m just not ultimately in control of how that process happens. Though that does not mean that I should stop living. I can still experience and enjoy my life, and ‘choose’ to improve it. It’s just that the I that made that choice is a consequence of my brain calculating optimal paths based on a myriad of factors: genetics, culture, circumstance, biological drives, personal history, drugs, etc.
              """
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          +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4944}
          +body: """
            Let’s say you see someone playing in traffic, and tell them they shouldn’t be doing that. They respond, “I can’t not do it, because my brain already made the decision to do it, so I have no choice but to do it.”\n
            \n
            Is this person correct? Or do they have the ability to just follow your advice and stop playing? Do they have the ability to ignore your advice and keep playing? If they have the ability to do both, then to what degree can we say that your advice is determining their choice? How can we say that choice is determined if we can also say that they should make a different choice?
            """
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        +body: "We are constantly making and updating our choices in response to new information. Just because the brain decided upon one course of action at one point in time does not preclude it from changing course in the future. That’s just a new choice. All available information is taken into consideration at all points in time."
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    +body: "By determined, I mean it follows a logical set of rules, not that it is set on a specific action. The idea would be that it was determined to make all those choices because everything else is also following the rules of the universe. Just as it was determined that they play in traffic, so was it determined for me to tell them to stop, just as it was determined for them to listen. They didn’t choose to change their mind, they were always going to change their mind."
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  +body: """
    That’s what raises my question of when we say someone “should” do something. If what you describe is true, there are not any better or worse choices or actions, there are just actions that are consequences of a previous action.\n
    \n
    I’m not sure if you’re familiar of Jelle’s Marble Races, but the general conceit is that marbles are sent down a track or through obstacles while a sports commentator analyzes the race as if observing human competitors. The humor arises from the cognitive dissonance of talking about strategy, risky decisions, athleticism, etc. while the audience is fully aware that these are inanimate objects being acted upon by mechanical forces.\n
    \n
    Likewise, talking about what decisions should or shouldn’t do with a worldview that these actions are simply things that happen due to more complex interactions of cause and effect that we can’t immediately see causes a similar sense of cognitive dissonance for me. It seems that human minds and language have evolved to experience a world where our actions do have meaning and that we don’t really experience them in a way that feels deterministic to us.\n
    \n
    You brought up the brain a vat thought experiment in another reply, and the answer is similar: even if we are brains in a vat, that’s not how we experience the world. And we don’t really experience the world as a deterministic one, either.
    """
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        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
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                  I’m a fairly hardcore/radical determinist, and tend to agree that individuals shouldn’t be held morally responsible for actions, any more than a hammer is morally responsible for driving a nail. However, that does not mean people should be free from *consequence*. There are plenty of reasons - even as a hardcore determinist - to hold people to account for their actions, either as a social corrective mechanism, public safety, deterrent, or personal sanity.\n
                  \n
                  As for getting their actions to align with your morals, that’s a more complicated question that depends on the type of person they are.
                  """
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              +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4944}
              +body: "How does a hardcore determinist believe in “shouldn’t?” Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?"
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            +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4944}
            +body: """
              > Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?\n
              \n
              My answer changes depending on your meaning but:\n
              \n
              Of course. My brain is constantly updating and improving itself. I’m just not ultimately in control of how that process happens. Though that does not mean that I should stop living. I can still experience and enjoy my life, and ‘choose’ to improve it. It’s just that the I that made that choice is a consequence of my brain calculating optimal paths based on a myriad of factors: genetics, culture, circumstance, biological drives, personal history, drugs, etc.
              """
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          +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4944}
          +body: """
            Let’s say you see someone playing in traffic, and tell them they shouldn’t be doing that. They respond, “I can’t not do it, because my brain already made the decision to do it, so I have no choice but to do it.”\n
            \n
            Is this person correct? Or do they have the ability to just follow your advice and stop playing? Do they have the ability to ignore your advice and keep playing? If they have the ability to do both, then to what degree can we say that your advice is determining their choice? How can we say that choice is determined if we can also say that they should make a different choice?
            """
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        +body: "We are constantly making and updating our choices in response to new information. Just because the brain decided upon one course of action at one point in time does not preclude it from changing course in the future. That’s just a new choice. All available information is taken into consideration at all points in time."
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    +body: "By determined, I mean it follows a logical set of rules, not that it is set on a specific action. The idea would be that it was determined to make all those choices because everything else is also following the rules of the universe. Just as it was determined that they play in traffic, so was it determined for me to tell them to stop, just as it was determined for them to listen. They didn’t choose to change their mind, they were always going to change their mind."
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  +body: """
    That’s what raises my question of when we say someone “should” do something. If what you describe is true, there are not any better or worse choices or actions, there are just actions that are consequences of a previous action.\n
    \n
    I’m not sure if you’re familiar of Jelle’s Marble Races, but the general conceit is that marbles are sent down a track or through obstacles while a sports commentator analyzes the race as if observing human competitors. The humor arises from the cognitive dissonance of talking about strategy, risky decisions, athleticism, etc. while the audience is fully aware that these are inanimate objects being acted upon by mechanical forces.\n
    \n
    Likewise, talking about what decisions should or shouldn’t do with a worldview that these actions are simply things that happen due to more complex interactions of cause and effect that we can’t immediately see causes a similar sense of cognitive dissonance for me. It seems that human minds and language have evolved to experience a world where our actions do have meaning and that we don’t really experience them in a way that feels deterministic to us.\n
    \n
    You brought up the brain a vat thought experiment in another reply, and the answer is similar: even if we are brains in a vat, that’s not how we experience the world. And we don’t really experience the world as a deterministic one, either.
    """
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        A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
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        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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                +body: """
                  I’m a fairly hardcore/radical determinist, and tend to agree that individuals shouldn’t be held morally responsible for actions, any more than a hammer is morally responsible for driving a nail. However, that does not mean people should be free from *consequence*. There are plenty of reasons - even as a hardcore determinist - to hold people to account for their actions, either as a social corrective mechanism, public safety, deterrent, or personal sanity.\n
                  \n
                  As for getting their actions to align with your morals, that’s a more complicated question that depends on the type of person they are.
                  """
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              +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4944}
              +body: "How does a hardcore determinist believe in “shouldn’t?” Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?"
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            }
            +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4944}
            +body: """
              > Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?\n
              \n
              My answer changes depending on your meaning but:\n
              \n
              Of course. My brain is constantly updating and improving itself. I’m just not ultimately in control of how that process happens. Though that does not mean that I should stop living. I can still experience and enjoy my life, and ‘choose’ to improve it. It’s just that the I that made that choice is a consequence of my brain calculating optimal paths based on a myriad of factors: genetics, culture, circumstance, biological drives, personal history, drugs, etc.
              """
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          +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4944}
          +body: """
            Let’s say you see someone playing in traffic, and tell them they shouldn’t be doing that. They respond, “I can’t not do it, because my brain already made the decision to do it, so I have no choice but to do it.”\n
            \n
            Is this person correct? Or do they have the ability to just follow your advice and stop playing? Do they have the ability to ignore your advice and keep playing? If they have the ability to do both, then to what degree can we say that your advice is determining their choice? How can we say that choice is determined if we can also say that they should make a different choice?
            """
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4944}
        +body: "We are constantly making and updating our choices in response to new information. Just because the brain decided upon one course of action at one point in time does not preclude it from changing course in the future. That’s just a new choice. All available information is taken into consideration at all points in time."
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    +body: "By determined, I mean it follows a logical set of rules, not that it is set on a specific action. The idea would be that it was determined to make all those choices because everything else is also following the rules of the universe. Just as it was determined that they play in traffic, so was it determined for me to tell them to stop, just as it was determined for them to listen. They didn’t choose to change their mind, they were always going to change their mind."
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  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4944}
  +body: """
    That’s what raises my question of when we say someone “should” do something. If what you describe is true, there are not any better or worse choices or actions, there are just actions that are consequences of a previous action.\n
    \n
    I’m not sure if you’re familiar of Jelle’s Marble Races, but the general conceit is that marbles are sent down a track or through obstacles while a sports commentator analyzes the race as if observing human competitors. The humor arises from the cognitive dissonance of talking about strategy, risky decisions, athleticism, etc. while the audience is fully aware that these are inanimate objects being acted upon by mechanical forces.\n
    \n
    Likewise, talking about what decisions should or shouldn’t do with a worldview that these actions are simply things that happen due to more complex interactions of cause and effect that we can’t immediately see causes a similar sense of cognitive dissonance for me. It seems that human minds and language have evolved to experience a world where our actions do have meaning and that we don’t really experience them in a way that feels deterministic to us.\n
    \n
    You brought up the brain a vat thought experiment in another reply, and the answer is similar: even if we are brains in a vat, that’s not how we experience the world. And we don’t really experience the world as a deterministic one, either.
    """
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181 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
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182 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#5509
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      +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.world"
      +title: "asklemmy"
      +description: """
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        \n
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        \n
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          I’m a fairly hardcore/radical determinist, and tend to agree that individuals shouldn’t be held morally responsible for actions, any more than a hammer is morally responsible for driving a nail. However, that does not mean people should be free from *consequence*. There are plenty of reasons - even as a hardcore determinist - to hold people to account for their actions, either as a social corrective mechanism, public safety, deterrent, or personal sanity.\n
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          As for getting their actions to align with your morals, that’s a more complicated question that depends on the type of person they are.
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      > Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?\n
      \n
      My answer changes depending on your meaning but:\n
      \n
      Of course. My brain is constantly updating and improving itself. I’m just not ultimately in control of how that process happens. Though that does not mean that I should stop living. I can still experience and enjoy my life, and ‘choose’ to improve it. It’s just that the I that made that choice is a consequence of my brain calculating optimal paths based on a myriad of factors: genetics, culture, circumstance, biological drives, personal history, drugs, etc.
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    To clarify: are you saying that there is a “you” who is a separate entity from your brain (and the rest of your body?)\n
    \n
    Do you see it as your fingers are typing a reply and you’re just watching them do it on their own? You wouldn’t say that you’re the one typing?
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        A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
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        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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        [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
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        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
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          I’m a fairly hardcore/radical determinist, and tend to agree that individuals shouldn’t be held morally responsible for actions, any more than a hammer is morally responsible for driving a nail. However, that does not mean people should be free from *consequence*. There are plenty of reasons - even as a hardcore determinist - to hold people to account for their actions, either as a social corrective mechanism, public safety, deterrent, or personal sanity.\n
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          As for getting their actions to align with your morals, that’s a more complicated question that depends on the type of person they are.
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        date: 2023-10-13 13:22:03.0 +02:00
      }
    }
    +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4944}
    +body: """
      > Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?\n
      \n
      My answer changes depending on your meaning but:\n
      \n
      Of course. My brain is constantly updating and improving itself. I’m just not ultimately in control of how that process happens. Though that does not mean that I should stop living. I can still experience and enjoy my life, and ‘choose’ to improve it. It’s just that the I that made that choice is a consequence of my brain calculating optimal paths based on a myriad of factors: genetics, culture, circumstance, biological drives, personal history, drugs, etc.
      """
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      date: 2023-10-13 16:28:50.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4944}
  +body: """
    To clarify: are you saying that there is a “you” who is a separate entity from your brain (and the rest of your body?)\n
    \n
    Do you see it as your fingers are typing a reply and you’re just watching them do it on their own? You wouldn’t say that you’re the one typing?
    """
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    "@Moobythegoldensock@lemm.ee"
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    date: 2023-10-13 17:45:07.0 +02:00
  }
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
184 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#5509
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    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1970 …}
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      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#246 …}
      +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.world"
      +title: "asklemmy"
      +description: """
        A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
        -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        **Rules: (interactive)**\n
        ------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
        Partnered Communities:\n
        ----------------------\n
        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
        """
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        date: 2024-10-22 09:47:25.0 +02:00
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      +apPreferredUsername: "asklemmy"
      +apDiscoverable: true
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        date: 2024-10-22 09:48:21.0 +02:00
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        date: 2023-10-13 08:03:47.0 +02:00
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    }
    +image: null
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#1915 …}
    +slug: "What-s-the-best-response-to-someone-who-believes-in-hard"
    +title: "What's the best response to someone who believes in hard determinism but also uses this to deny responsibility for any immoral actions they commit?"
    +url: null
    +body: "That is, they think all of their decisions were preordained, and then use this to claim that they can’t be held responsible for anything they do."
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      date: 2023-10-13 08:00:26.0 +02:00
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  }
  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265}
  +image: null
  +parent: App\Entity\EntryComment {#5393
    +user: App\Entity\User {#4957 …}
    +entry: App\Entity\Entry {#2419}
    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265}
    +image: null
    +parent: App\Entity\EntryComment {#5135
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        +entry: App\Entity\Entry {#2419}
        +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265}
        +image: null
        +parent: null
        +root: null
        +body: """
          I’m a fairly hardcore/radical determinist, and tend to agree that individuals shouldn’t be held morally responsible for actions, any more than a hammer is morally responsible for driving a nail. However, that does not mean people should be free from *consequence*. There are plenty of reasons - even as a hardcore determinist - to hold people to account for their actions, either as a social corrective mechanism, public safety, deterrent, or personal sanity.\n
          \n
          As for getting their actions to align with your morals, that’s a more complicated question that depends on the type of person they are.
          """
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          date: 2023-10-13 08:44:09.0 +02:00
        }
      }
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4944}
      +body: "How does a hardcore determinist believe in “shouldn’t?” Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?"
      +lang: "en"
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        "@PlogLod@lemmy.world"
        "@bogdugg@sh.itjust.works"
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        date: 2023-10-13 13:22:03.0 +02:00
      }
    }
    +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4944}
    +body: """
      > Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?\n
      \n
      My answer changes depending on your meaning but:\n
      \n
      Of course. My brain is constantly updating and improving itself. I’m just not ultimately in control of how that process happens. Though that does not mean that I should stop living. I can still experience and enjoy my life, and ‘choose’ to improve it. It’s just that the I that made that choice is a consequence of my brain calculating optimal paths based on a myriad of factors: genetics, culture, circumstance, biological drives, personal history, drugs, etc.
      """
    +lang: "en"
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      "@Moobythegoldensock@lemm.ee"
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    +ranking: 0
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    +visibility: "visible             "
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    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697207330 {#5392
      date: 2023-10-13 16:28:50.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4944}
  +body: """
    To clarify: are you saying that there is a “you” who is a separate entity from your brain (and the rest of your body?)\n
    \n
    Do you see it as your fingers are typing a reply and you’re just watching them do it on their own? You wouldn’t say that you’re the one typing?
    """
  +lang: "en"
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    date: 2023-10-13 17:45:07.0 +02:00
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    "@PlogLod@lemmy.world"
    "@bogdugg@sh.itjust.works"
    "@Moobythegoldensock@lemm.ee"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#5510 …}
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  +ranking: 0
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  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697211907 {#5508
    date: 2023-10-13 17:45:07.0 +02:00
  }
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
185 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
186 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#5607
  +user: App\Entity\User {#4957 …}
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    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1970 …}
    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265
      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#246 …}
      +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.world"
      +title: "asklemmy"
      +description: """
        A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
        -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        **Rules: (interactive)**\n
        ------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
        Partnered Communities:\n
        ----------------------\n
        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        ---\n
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          +body: """
            I’m a fairly hardcore/radical determinist, and tend to agree that individuals shouldn’t be held morally responsible for actions, any more than a hammer is morally responsible for driving a nail. However, that does not mean people should be free from *consequence*. There are plenty of reasons - even as a hardcore determinist - to hold people to account for their actions, either as a social corrective mechanism, public safety, deterrent, or personal sanity.\n
            \n
            As for getting their actions to align with your morals, that’s a more complicated question that depends on the type of person they are.
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        +body: "How does a hardcore determinist believe in “shouldn’t?” Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?"
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        > Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?\n
        \n
        My answer changes depending on your meaning but:\n
        \n
        Of course. My brain is constantly updating and improving itself. I’m just not ultimately in control of how that process happens. Though that does not mean that I should stop living. I can still experience and enjoy my life, and ‘choose’ to improve it. It’s just that the I that made that choice is a consequence of my brain calculating optimal paths based on a myriad of factors: genetics, culture, circumstance, biological drives, personal history, drugs, etc.
        """
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      To clarify: are you saying that there is a “you” who is a separate entity from your brain (and the rest of your body?)\n
      \n
      Do you see it as your fingers are typing a reply and you’re just watching them do it on their own? You wouldn’t say that you’re the one typing?
      """
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    I believe consciousness is a result of processes of the brain, and the brain is a very complex machine. It’s hard to say anything too concretely beyond that because I don’t really understand how it works. I live as though the brain and my consciousness are in perfect sync, but I’m unsure how true that is.\n
    \n
    There are, for example, experiments where it can be shown that [decisions are made before we are consciously aware that we have made them](https://www.nature.com/articles/news.2008.751). Others show that [severing a nerve between the hemispheres of our brain can result in two independent consciousnesses.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-brain) Who can say where I end and my brain begins?
    """
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        ---\n
        \n
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        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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        4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
        \n
        ---\n
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        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
        Partnered Communities:\n
        ----------------------\n
        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
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        ---\n
        \n
        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
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          +body: """
            I’m a fairly hardcore/radical determinist, and tend to agree that individuals shouldn’t be held morally responsible for actions, any more than a hammer is morally responsible for driving a nail. However, that does not mean people should be free from *consequence*. There are plenty of reasons - even as a hardcore determinist - to hold people to account for their actions, either as a social corrective mechanism, public safety, deterrent, or personal sanity.\n
            \n
            As for getting their actions to align with your morals, that’s a more complicated question that depends on the type of person they are.
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        +body: "How does a hardcore determinist believe in “shouldn’t?” Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?"
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      +body: """
        > Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?\n
        \n
        My answer changes depending on your meaning but:\n
        \n
        Of course. My brain is constantly updating and improving itself. I’m just not ultimately in control of how that process happens. Though that does not mean that I should stop living. I can still experience and enjoy my life, and ‘choose’ to improve it. It’s just that the I that made that choice is a consequence of my brain calculating optimal paths based on a myriad of factors: genetics, culture, circumstance, biological drives, personal history, drugs, etc.
        """
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      To clarify: are you saying that there is a “you” who is a separate entity from your brain (and the rest of your body?)\n
      \n
      Do you see it as your fingers are typing a reply and you’re just watching them do it on their own? You wouldn’t say that you’re the one typing?
      """
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    I believe consciousness is a result of processes of the brain, and the brain is a very complex machine. It’s hard to say anything too concretely beyond that because I don’t really understand how it works. I live as though the brain and my consciousness are in perfect sync, but I’m unsure how true that is.\n
    \n
    There are, for example, experiments where it can be shown that [decisions are made before we are consciously aware that we have made them](https://www.nature.com/articles/news.2008.751). Others show that [severing a nerve between the hemispheres of our brain can result in two independent consciousnesses.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-brain) Who can say where I end and my brain begins?
    """
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        A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
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        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
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        Partnered Communities:\n
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        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
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        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
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        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
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        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
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            I’m a fairly hardcore/radical determinist, and tend to agree that individuals shouldn’t be held morally responsible for actions, any more than a hammer is morally responsible for driving a nail. However, that does not mean people should be free from *consequence*. There are plenty of reasons - even as a hardcore determinist - to hold people to account for their actions, either as a social corrective mechanism, public safety, deterrent, or personal sanity.\n
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            As for getting their actions to align with your morals, that’s a more complicated question that depends on the type of person they are.
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        > Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?\n
        \n
        My answer changes depending on your meaning but:\n
        \n
        Of course. My brain is constantly updating and improving itself. I’m just not ultimately in control of how that process happens. Though that does not mean that I should stop living. I can still experience and enjoy my life, and ‘choose’ to improve it. It’s just that the I that made that choice is a consequence of my brain calculating optimal paths based on a myriad of factors: genetics, culture, circumstance, biological drives, personal history, drugs, etc.
        """
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      To clarify: are you saying that there is a “you” who is a separate entity from your brain (and the rest of your body?)\n
      \n
      Do you see it as your fingers are typing a reply and you’re just watching them do it on their own? You wouldn’t say that you’re the one typing?
      """
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    I believe consciousness is a result of processes of the brain, and the brain is a very complex machine. It’s hard to say anything too concretely beyond that because I don’t really understand how it works. I live as though the brain and my consciousness are in perfect sync, but I’m unsure how true that is.\n
    \n
    There are, for example, experiments where it can be shown that [decisions are made before we are consciously aware that we have made them](https://www.nature.com/articles/news.2008.751). Others show that [severing a nerve between the hemispheres of our brain can result in two independent consciousnesses.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-brain) Who can say where I end and my brain begins?
    """
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        A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
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        **Rules: (interactive)**\n
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        \n
        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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        2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
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        4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
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        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
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        Partnered Communities:\n
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        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
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        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
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    +url: null
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            +body: """
              I’m a fairly hardcore/radical determinist, and tend to agree that individuals shouldn’t be held morally responsible for actions, any more than a hammer is morally responsible for driving a nail. However, that does not mean people should be free from *consequence*. There are plenty of reasons - even as a hardcore determinist - to hold people to account for their actions, either as a social corrective mechanism, public safety, deterrent, or personal sanity.\n
              \n
              As for getting their actions to align with your morals, that’s a more complicated question that depends on the type of person they are.
              """
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          +body: "How does a hardcore determinist believe in “shouldn’t?” Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?"
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        +body: """
          > Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?\n
          \n
          My answer changes depending on your meaning but:\n
          \n
          Of course. My brain is constantly updating and improving itself. I’m just not ultimately in control of how that process happens. Though that does not mean that I should stop living. I can still experience and enjoy my life, and ‘choose’ to improve it. It’s just that the I that made that choice is a consequence of my brain calculating optimal paths based on a myriad of factors: genetics, culture, circumstance, biological drives, personal history, drugs, etc.
          """
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        To clarify: are you saying that there is a “you” who is a separate entity from your brain (and the rest of your body?)\n
        \n
        Do you see it as your fingers are typing a reply and you’re just watching them do it on their own? You wouldn’t say that you’re the one typing?
        """
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      I believe consciousness is a result of processes of the brain, and the brain is a very complex machine. It’s hard to say anything too concretely beyond that because I don’t really understand how it works. I live as though the brain and my consciousness are in perfect sync, but I’m unsure how true that is.\n
      \n
      There are, for example, experiments where it can be shown that [decisions are made before we are consciously aware that we have made them](https://www.nature.com/articles/news.2008.751). Others show that [severing a nerve between the hemispheres of our brain can result in two independent consciousnesses.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-brain) Who can say where I end and my brain begins?
      """
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  }
  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4944}
  +body: "Your brain is you, though, just like your hands are you. Whether there’s a lag between the time that imaging detects you made a decision and you say you made one does not change the fact that you’re the one making the decision."
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}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
191 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#5691
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        A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
        -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        **Rules: (interactive)**\n
        ------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
        \n
        ---\n
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        3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
        \n
        ---\n
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        4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
        Partnered Communities:\n
        ----------------------\n
        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
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    +title: "What's the best response to someone who believes in hard determinism but also uses this to deny responsibility for any immoral actions they commit?"
    +url: null
    +body: "That is, they think all of their decisions were preordained, and then use this to claim that they can’t be held responsible for anything they do."
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            +body: """
              I’m a fairly hardcore/radical determinist, and tend to agree that individuals shouldn’t be held morally responsible for actions, any more than a hammer is morally responsible for driving a nail. However, that does not mean people should be free from *consequence*. There are plenty of reasons - even as a hardcore determinist - to hold people to account for their actions, either as a social corrective mechanism, public safety, deterrent, or personal sanity.\n
              \n
              As for getting their actions to align with your morals, that’s a more complicated question that depends on the type of person they are.
              """
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              date: 2023-10-13 08:44:09.0 +02:00
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          +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4944}
          +body: "How does a hardcore determinist believe in “shouldn’t?” Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?"
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            "@bogdugg@sh.itjust.works"
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            date: 2023-10-13 13:22:03.0 +02:00
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4944}
        +body: """
          > Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?\n
          \n
          My answer changes depending on your meaning but:\n
          \n
          Of course. My brain is constantly updating and improving itself. I’m just not ultimately in control of how that process happens. Though that does not mean that I should stop living. I can still experience and enjoy my life, and ‘choose’ to improve it. It’s just that the I that made that choice is a consequence of my brain calculating optimal paths based on a myriad of factors: genetics, culture, circumstance, biological drives, personal history, drugs, etc.
          """
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          "@bogdugg@sh.itjust.works"
          "@Moobythegoldensock@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -bodyTs: "'abil':9 'answer':15 'base':86 'behavior':13 'biolog':95 'brain':25,82 'calcul':83 'chang':11,16 'choic':76 'choos':63 'circumst':94 'consequ':79 'constant':27 'control':38 'cours':23 'cultur':93 'depend':17 'doesn':1 'drive':96 'drug':99 'enjoy':59 'etc':100 'experi':57 'factor':91 'genet':92 'happen':43 'histori':98 'impli':4 'improv':30,65 'life':61 'live':53 'm':33 'made':74 'mean':20,48 'myriad':89 'optim':84 'path':85 'peopl':6 'person':97 'process':42 'still':56 'stop':52 'though':44 'ultim':36 'updat':28"
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          date: 2023-10-13 16:28:50.0 +02:00
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      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4944}
      +body: """
        To clarify: are you saying that there is a “you” who is a separate entity from your brain (and the rest of your body?)\n
        \n
        Do you see it as your fingers are typing a reply and you’re just watching them do it on their own? You wouldn’t say that you’re the one typing?
        """
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        "@bogdugg@sh.itjust.works"
        "@Moobythegoldensock@lemm.ee"
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    +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4944}
    +body: """
      I believe consciousness is a result of processes of the brain, and the brain is a very complex machine. It’s hard to say anything too concretely beyond that because I don’t really understand how it works. I live as though the brain and my consciousness are in perfect sync, but I’m unsure how true that is.\n
      \n
      There are, for example, experiments where it can be shown that [decisions are made before we are consciously aware that we have made them](https://www.nature.com/articles/news.2008.751). Others show that [severing a nerve between the hemispheres of our brain can result in two independent consciousnesses.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-brain) Who can say where I end and my brain begins?
      """
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  }
  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4944}
  +body: "Your brain is you, though, just like your hands are you. Whether there’s a lag between the time that imaging detects you made a decision and you say you made one does not change the fact that you’re the one making the decision."
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}
 
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        A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
        -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        **Rules: (interactive)**\n
        ------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
        \n
        ---\n
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        2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
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        ---\n
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        4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
        Partnered Communities:\n
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        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
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        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
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        ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
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    +slug: "What-s-the-best-response-to-someone-who-believes-in-hard"
    +title: "What's the best response to someone who believes in hard determinism but also uses this to deny responsibility for any immoral actions they commit?"
    +url: null
    +body: "That is, they think all of their decisions were preordained, and then use this to claim that they can’t be held responsible for anything they do."
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            +body: """
              I’m a fairly hardcore/radical determinist, and tend to agree that individuals shouldn’t be held morally responsible for actions, any more than a hammer is morally responsible for driving a nail. However, that does not mean people should be free from *consequence*. There are plenty of reasons - even as a hardcore determinist - to hold people to account for their actions, either as a social corrective mechanism, public safety, deterrent, or personal sanity.\n
              \n
              As for getting their actions to align with your morals, that’s a more complicated question that depends on the type of person they are.
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              date: 2023-10-13 08:44:09.0 +02:00
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          }
          +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4944}
          +body: "How does a hardcore determinist believe in “shouldn’t?” Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?"
          +lang: "en"
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            "@bogdugg@sh.itjust.works"
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            date: 2023-10-13 13:22:03.0 +02:00
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        }
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4944}
        +body: """
          > Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?\n
          \n
          My answer changes depending on your meaning but:\n
          \n
          Of course. My brain is constantly updating and improving itself. I’m just not ultimately in control of how that process happens. Though that does not mean that I should stop living. I can still experience and enjoy my life, and ‘choose’ to improve it. It’s just that the I that made that choice is a consequence of my brain calculating optimal paths based on a myriad of factors: genetics, culture, circumstance, biological drives, personal history, drugs, etc.
          """
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          "@Moobythegoldensock@lemm.ee"
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          date: 2023-10-13 16:28:50.0 +02:00
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      }
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4944}
      +body: """
        To clarify: are you saying that there is a “you” who is a separate entity from your brain (and the rest of your body?)\n
        \n
        Do you see it as your fingers are typing a reply and you’re just watching them do it on their own? You wouldn’t say that you’re the one typing?
        """
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        "@bogdugg@sh.itjust.works"
        "@Moobythegoldensock@lemm.ee"
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    +body: """
      I believe consciousness is a result of processes of the brain, and the brain is a very complex machine. It’s hard to say anything too concretely beyond that because I don’t really understand how it works. I live as though the brain and my consciousness are in perfect sync, but I’m unsure how true that is.\n
      \n
      There are, for example, experiments where it can be shown that [decisions are made before we are consciously aware that we have made them](https://www.nature.com/articles/news.2008.751). Others show that [severing a nerve between the hemispheres of our brain can result in two independent consciousnesses.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-brain) Who can say where I end and my brain begins?
      """
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  }
  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4944}
  +body: "Your brain is you, though, just like your hands are you. Whether there’s a lag between the time that imaging detects you made a decision and you say you made one does not change the fact that you’re the one making the decision."
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193 DENIED ROLE_USER 
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        A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
        -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        **Rules: (interactive)**\n
        ------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
        \n
        ---\n
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        2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
        \n
        ---\n
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        \n
        ---\n
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        4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
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        ---\n
        \n
        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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              +body: """
                I’m a fairly hardcore/radical determinist, and tend to agree that individuals shouldn’t be held morally responsible for actions, any more than a hammer is morally responsible for driving a nail. However, that does not mean people should be free from *consequence*. There are plenty of reasons - even as a hardcore determinist - to hold people to account for their actions, either as a social corrective mechanism, public safety, deterrent, or personal sanity.\n
                \n
                As for getting their actions to align with your morals, that’s a more complicated question that depends on the type of person they are.
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            +body: "How does a hardcore determinist believe in “shouldn’t?” Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?"
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          +body: """
            > Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?\n
            \n
            My answer changes depending on your meaning but:\n
            \n
            Of course. My brain is constantly updating and improving itself. I’m just not ultimately in control of how that process happens. Though that does not mean that I should stop living. I can still experience and enjoy my life, and ‘choose’ to improve it. It’s just that the I that made that choice is a consequence of my brain calculating optimal paths based on a myriad of factors: genetics, culture, circumstance, biological drives, personal history, drugs, etc.
            """
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        +body: """
          To clarify: are you saying that there is a “you” who is a separate entity from your brain (and the rest of your body?)\n
          \n
          Do you see it as your fingers are typing a reply and you’re just watching them do it on their own? You wouldn’t say that you’re the one typing?
          """
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      +body: """
        I believe consciousness is a result of processes of the brain, and the brain is a very complex machine. It’s hard to say anything too concretely beyond that because I don’t really understand how it works. I live as though the brain and my consciousness are in perfect sync, but I’m unsure how true that is.\n
        \n
        There are, for example, experiments where it can be shown that [decisions are made before we are consciously aware that we have made them](https://www.nature.com/articles/news.2008.751). Others show that [severing a nerve between the hemispheres of our brain can result in two independent consciousnesses.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-brain) Who can say where I end and my brain begins?
        """
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    +body: "Your brain is you, though, just like your hands are you. Whether there’s a lag between the time that imaging detects you made a decision and you say you made one does not change the fact that you’re the one making the decision."
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  +body: "That’s one way of seeing things, and I respect that viewpoint, but I disagree. I primarily view myself as my consciousness; everything else is secondary. How do you know you aren’t a [brain in a vat](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_in_a_vat)?"
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        A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
        -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
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        ---\n
        \n
        **Rules: (interactive)**\n
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        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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        ---\n
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        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
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        Partnered Communities:\n
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        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
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              +body: """
                I’m a fairly hardcore/radical determinist, and tend to agree that individuals shouldn’t be held morally responsible for actions, any more than a hammer is morally responsible for driving a nail. However, that does not mean people should be free from *consequence*. There are plenty of reasons - even as a hardcore determinist - to hold people to account for their actions, either as a social corrective mechanism, public safety, deterrent, or personal sanity.\n
                \n
                As for getting their actions to align with your morals, that’s a more complicated question that depends on the type of person they are.
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            +body: "How does a hardcore determinist believe in “shouldn’t?” Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?"
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            > Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?\n
            \n
            My answer changes depending on your meaning but:\n
            \n
            Of course. My brain is constantly updating and improving itself. I’m just not ultimately in control of how that process happens. Though that does not mean that I should stop living. I can still experience and enjoy my life, and ‘choose’ to improve it. It’s just that the I that made that choice is a consequence of my brain calculating optimal paths based on a myriad of factors: genetics, culture, circumstance, biological drives, personal history, drugs, etc.
            """
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          To clarify: are you saying that there is a “you” who is a separate entity from your brain (and the rest of your body?)\n
          \n
          Do you see it as your fingers are typing a reply and you’re just watching them do it on their own? You wouldn’t say that you’re the one typing?
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      +body: """
        I believe consciousness is a result of processes of the brain, and the brain is a very complex machine. It’s hard to say anything too concretely beyond that because I don’t really understand how it works. I live as though the brain and my consciousness are in perfect sync, but I’m unsure how true that is.\n
        \n
        There are, for example, experiments where it can be shown that [decisions are made before we are consciously aware that we have made them](https://www.nature.com/articles/news.2008.751). Others show that [severing a nerve between the hemispheres of our brain can result in two independent consciousnesses.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-brain) Who can say where I end and my brain begins?
        """
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    +body: "Your brain is you, though, just like your hands are you. Whether there’s a lag between the time that imaging detects you made a decision and you say you made one does not change the fact that you’re the one making the decision."
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  +body: "That’s one way of seeing things, and I respect that viewpoint, but I disagree. I primarily view myself as my consciousness; everything else is secondary. How do you know you aren’t a [brain in a vat](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_in_a_vat)?"
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    +slug: "What-s-the-best-response-to-someone-who-believes-in-hard"
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              +body: """
                I’m a fairly hardcore/radical determinist, and tend to agree that individuals shouldn’t be held morally responsible for actions, any more than a hammer is morally responsible for driving a nail. However, that does not mean people should be free from *consequence*. There are plenty of reasons - even as a hardcore determinist - to hold people to account for their actions, either as a social corrective mechanism, public safety, deterrent, or personal sanity.\n
                \n
                As for getting their actions to align with your morals, that’s a more complicated question that depends on the type of person they are.
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            +body: "How does a hardcore determinist believe in “shouldn’t?” Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?"
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          +body: """
            > Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?\n
            \n
            My answer changes depending on your meaning but:\n
            \n
            Of course. My brain is constantly updating and improving itself. I’m just not ultimately in control of how that process happens. Though that does not mean that I should stop living. I can still experience and enjoy my life, and ‘choose’ to improve it. It’s just that the I that made that choice is a consequence of my brain calculating optimal paths based on a myriad of factors: genetics, culture, circumstance, biological drives, personal history, drugs, etc.
            """
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        +body: """
          To clarify: are you saying that there is a “you” who is a separate entity from your brain (and the rest of your body?)\n
          \n
          Do you see it as your fingers are typing a reply and you’re just watching them do it on their own? You wouldn’t say that you’re the one typing?
          """
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      +body: """
        I believe consciousness is a result of processes of the brain, and the brain is a very complex machine. It’s hard to say anything too concretely beyond that because I don’t really understand how it works. I live as though the brain and my consciousness are in perfect sync, but I’m unsure how true that is.\n
        \n
        There are, for example, experiments where it can be shown that [decisions are made before we are consciously aware that we have made them](https://www.nature.com/articles/news.2008.751). Others show that [severing a nerve between the hemispheres of our brain can result in two independent consciousnesses.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-brain) Who can say where I end and my brain begins?
        """
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    +body: "Your brain is you, though, just like your hands are you. Whether there’s a lag between the time that imaging detects you made a decision and you say you made one does not change the fact that you’re the one making the decision."
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  +body: "That’s one way of seeing things, and I respect that viewpoint, but I disagree. I primarily view myself as my consciousness; everything else is secondary. How do you know you aren’t a [brain in a vat](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_in_a_vat)?"
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    +slug: "What-s-the-best-response-to-someone-who-believes-in-hard"
    +title: "What's the best response to someone who believes in hard determinism but also uses this to deny responsibility for any immoral actions they commit?"
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    +body: "That is, they think all of their decisions were preordained, and then use this to claim that they can’t be held responsible for anything they do."
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                +body: """
                  I’m a fairly hardcore/radical determinist, and tend to agree that individuals shouldn’t be held morally responsible for actions, any more than a hammer is morally responsible for driving a nail. However, that does not mean people should be free from *consequence*. There are plenty of reasons - even as a hardcore determinist - to hold people to account for their actions, either as a social corrective mechanism, public safety, deterrent, or personal sanity.\n
                  \n
                  As for getting their actions to align with your morals, that’s a more complicated question that depends on the type of person they are.
                  """
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              +body: "How does a hardcore determinist believe in “shouldn’t?” Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?"
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            +body: """
              > Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?\n
              \n
              My answer changes depending on your meaning but:\n
              \n
              Of course. My brain is constantly updating and improving itself. I’m just not ultimately in control of how that process happens. Though that does not mean that I should stop living. I can still experience and enjoy my life, and ‘choose’ to improve it. It’s just that the I that made that choice is a consequence of my brain calculating optimal paths based on a myriad of factors: genetics, culture, circumstance, biological drives, personal history, drugs, etc.
              """
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          +body: """
            To clarify: are you saying that there is a “you” who is a separate entity from your brain (and the rest of your body?)\n
            \n
            Do you see it as your fingers are typing a reply and you’re just watching them do it on their own? You wouldn’t say that you’re the one typing?
            """
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          I believe consciousness is a result of processes of the brain, and the brain is a very complex machine. It’s hard to say anything too concretely beyond that because I don’t really understand how it works. I live as though the brain and my consciousness are in perfect sync, but I’m unsure how true that is.\n
          \n
          There are, for example, experiments where it can be shown that [decisions are made before we are consciously aware that we have made them](https://www.nature.com/articles/news.2008.751). Others show that [severing a nerve between the hemispheres of our brain can result in two independent consciousnesses.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-brain) Who can say where I end and my brain begins?
          """
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      +body: "Your brain is you, though, just like your hands are you. Whether there’s a lag between the time that imaging detects you made a decision and you say you made one does not change the fact that you’re the one making the decision."
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    +body: "That’s one way of seeing things, and I respect that viewpoint, but I disagree. I primarily view myself as my consciousness; everything else is secondary. How do you know you aren’t a [brain in a vat](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_in_a_vat)?"
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    I’m a fallibilist: I don’t believe we can know anything for certain. The best we can do is base propositions off contingent statements: “If what I see is reliable, *then* what I see in the mirror is not a brain in a vat.”\n
    \n
    A brain in a vat is not a very useful starting axioms, so I have no reason to give it serious consideration. By contrast, while taking the general accuracy of my own senses as axiomatic eventually leads me to conclude they can be fallible (example: hallucinations,) it is nonetheless a way more useful axiom for deriving a base of contingent knowledge.
    """
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    +slug: "What-s-the-best-response-to-someone-who-believes-in-hard"
    +title: "What's the best response to someone who believes in hard determinism but also uses this to deny responsibility for any immoral actions they commit?"
    +url: null
    +body: "That is, they think all of their decisions were preordained, and then use this to claim that they can’t be held responsible for anything they do."
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                +body: """
                  I’m a fairly hardcore/radical determinist, and tend to agree that individuals shouldn’t be held morally responsible for actions, any more than a hammer is morally responsible for driving a nail. However, that does not mean people should be free from *consequence*. There are plenty of reasons - even as a hardcore determinist - to hold people to account for their actions, either as a social corrective mechanism, public safety, deterrent, or personal sanity.\n
                  \n
                  As for getting their actions to align with your morals, that’s a more complicated question that depends on the type of person they are.
                  """
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              +body: "How does a hardcore determinist believe in “shouldn’t?” Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?"
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            +body: """
              > Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?\n
              \n
              My answer changes depending on your meaning but:\n
              \n
              Of course. My brain is constantly updating and improving itself. I’m just not ultimately in control of how that process happens. Though that does not mean that I should stop living. I can still experience and enjoy my life, and ‘choose’ to improve it. It’s just that the I that made that choice is a consequence of my brain calculating optimal paths based on a myriad of factors: genetics, culture, circumstance, biological drives, personal history, drugs, etc.
              """
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          +body: """
            To clarify: are you saying that there is a “you” who is a separate entity from your brain (and the rest of your body?)\n
            \n
            Do you see it as your fingers are typing a reply and you’re just watching them do it on their own? You wouldn’t say that you’re the one typing?
            """
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        +body: """
          I believe consciousness is a result of processes of the brain, and the brain is a very complex machine. It’s hard to say anything too concretely beyond that because I don’t really understand how it works. I live as though the brain and my consciousness are in perfect sync, but I’m unsure how true that is.\n
          \n
          There are, for example, experiments where it can be shown that [decisions are made before we are consciously aware that we have made them](https://www.nature.com/articles/news.2008.751). Others show that [severing a nerve between the hemispheres of our brain can result in two independent consciousnesses.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-brain) Who can say where I end and my brain begins?
          """
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      +body: "Your brain is you, though, just like your hands are you. Whether there’s a lag between the time that imaging detects you made a decision and you say you made one does not change the fact that you’re the one making the decision."
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    +body: "That’s one way of seeing things, and I respect that viewpoint, but I disagree. I primarily view myself as my consciousness; everything else is secondary. How do you know you aren’t a [brain in a vat](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_in_a_vat)?"
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    I’m a fallibilist: I don’t believe we can know anything for certain. The best we can do is base propositions off contingent statements: “If what I see is reliable, *then* what I see in the mirror is not a brain in a vat.”\n
    \n
    A brain in a vat is not a very useful starting axioms, so I have no reason to give it serious consideration. By contrast, while taking the general accuracy of my own senses as axiomatic eventually leads me to conclude they can be fallible (example: hallucinations,) it is nonetheless a way more useful axiom for deriving a base of contingent knowledge.
    """
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200 DENIED moderate 
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      +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.world"
      +title: "asklemmy"
      +description: """
        A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
        -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        **Rules: (interactive)**\n
        ------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
        \n
        ---\n
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        2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
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        3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
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        4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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        """
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    +slug: "What-s-the-best-response-to-someone-who-believes-in-hard"
    +title: "What's the best response to someone who believes in hard determinism but also uses this to deny responsibility for any immoral actions they commit?"
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                +body: """
                  I’m a fairly hardcore/radical determinist, and tend to agree that individuals shouldn’t be held morally responsible for actions, any more than a hammer is morally responsible for driving a nail. However, that does not mean people should be free from *consequence*. There are plenty of reasons - even as a hardcore determinist - to hold people to account for their actions, either as a social corrective mechanism, public safety, deterrent, or personal sanity.\n
                  \n
                  As for getting their actions to align with your morals, that’s a more complicated question that depends on the type of person they are.
                  """
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              +body: "How does a hardcore determinist believe in “shouldn’t?” Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?"
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            +body: """
              > Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?\n
              \n
              My answer changes depending on your meaning but:\n
              \n
              Of course. My brain is constantly updating and improving itself. I’m just not ultimately in control of how that process happens. Though that does not mean that I should stop living. I can still experience and enjoy my life, and ‘choose’ to improve it. It’s just that the I that made that choice is a consequence of my brain calculating optimal paths based on a myriad of factors: genetics, culture, circumstance, biological drives, personal history, drugs, etc.
              """
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          +body: """
            To clarify: are you saying that there is a “you” who is a separate entity from your brain (and the rest of your body?)\n
            \n
            Do you see it as your fingers are typing a reply and you’re just watching them do it on their own? You wouldn’t say that you’re the one typing?
            """
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        +body: """
          I believe consciousness is a result of processes of the brain, and the brain is a very complex machine. It’s hard to say anything too concretely beyond that because I don’t really understand how it works. I live as though the brain and my consciousness are in perfect sync, but I’m unsure how true that is.\n
          \n
          There are, for example, experiments where it can be shown that [decisions are made before we are consciously aware that we have made them](https://www.nature.com/articles/news.2008.751). Others show that [severing a nerve between the hemispheres of our brain can result in two independent consciousnesses.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-brain) Who can say where I end and my brain begins?
          """
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      +body: "Your brain is you, though, just like your hands are you. Whether there’s a lag between the time that imaging detects you made a decision and you say you made one does not change the fact that you’re the one making the decision."
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    +body: "That’s one way of seeing things, and I respect that viewpoint, but I disagree. I primarily view myself as my consciousness; everything else is secondary. How do you know you aren’t a [brain in a vat](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_in_a_vat)?"
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    I’m a fallibilist: I don’t believe we can know anything for certain. The best we can do is base propositions off contingent statements: “If what I see is reliable, *then* what I see in the mirror is not a brain in a vat.”\n
    \n
    A brain in a vat is not a very useful starting axioms, so I have no reason to give it serious consideration. By contrast, while taking the general accuracy of my own senses as axiomatic eventually leads me to conclude they can be fallible (example: hallucinations,) it is nonetheless a way more useful axiom for deriving a base of contingent knowledge.
    """
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202 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#5796
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        A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
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        **Rules: (interactive)**\n
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        \n
        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
        \n
        ---\n
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        3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
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        ---\n
        \n
        4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
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        ---\n
        \n
        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
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        """
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    +title: "What's the best response to someone who believes in hard determinism but also uses this to deny responsibility for any immoral actions they commit?"
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                +body: """
                  I’m a fairly hardcore/radical determinist, and tend to agree that individuals shouldn’t be held morally responsible for actions, any more than a hammer is morally responsible for driving a nail. However, that does not mean people should be free from *consequence*. There are plenty of reasons - even as a hardcore determinist - to hold people to account for their actions, either as a social corrective mechanism, public safety, deterrent, or personal sanity.\n
                  \n
                  As for getting their actions to align with your morals, that’s a more complicated question that depends on the type of person they are.
                  """
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              +body: "How does a hardcore determinist believe in “shouldn’t?” Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?"
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            +body: """
              > Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?\n
              \n
              My answer changes depending on your meaning but:\n
              \n
              Of course. My brain is constantly updating and improving itself. I’m just not ultimately in control of how that process happens. Though that does not mean that I should stop living. I can still experience and enjoy my life, and ‘choose’ to improve it. It’s just that the I that made that choice is a consequence of my brain calculating optimal paths based on a myriad of factors: genetics, culture, circumstance, biological drives, personal history, drugs, etc.
              """
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          +body: """
            To clarify: are you saying that there is a “you” who is a separate entity from your brain (and the rest of your body?)\n
            \n
            Do you see it as your fingers are typing a reply and you’re just watching them do it on their own? You wouldn’t say that you’re the one typing?
            """
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        +body: """
          I believe consciousness is a result of processes of the brain, and the brain is a very complex machine. It’s hard to say anything too concretely beyond that because I don’t really understand how it works. I live as though the brain and my consciousness are in perfect sync, but I’m unsure how true that is.\n
          \n
          There are, for example, experiments where it can be shown that [decisions are made before we are consciously aware that we have made them](https://www.nature.com/articles/news.2008.751). Others show that [severing a nerve between the hemispheres of our brain can result in two independent consciousnesses.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-brain) Who can say where I end and my brain begins?
          """
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      +body: "Your brain is you, though, just like your hands are you. Whether there’s a lag between the time that imaging detects you made a decision and you say you made one does not change the fact that you’re the one making the decision."
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    +body: "That’s one way of seeing things, and I respect that viewpoint, but I disagree. I primarily view myself as my consciousness; everything else is secondary. How do you know you aren’t a [brain in a vat](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_in_a_vat)?"
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    The person making the claim has to advance the evidence. The default is the assumption that the way the universe presents itself is the way it is. If you want me to consider this possibility find supporting evidence for it.\n
    \n
    Also we have evidence against that model.
    """
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}
 
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203 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#5796
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        A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
        -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
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        ---\n
        \n
        **Rules: (interactive)**\n
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        ---\n
        \n
        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
        \n
        ---\n
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        2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
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        3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
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        4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
        Partnered Communities:\n
        ----------------------\n
        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        ---\n
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        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        ---\n
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        ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
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                +body: """
                  I’m a fairly hardcore/radical determinist, and tend to agree that individuals shouldn’t be held morally responsible for actions, any more than a hammer is morally responsible for driving a nail. However, that does not mean people should be free from *consequence*. There are plenty of reasons - even as a hardcore determinist - to hold people to account for their actions, either as a social corrective mechanism, public safety, deterrent, or personal sanity.\n
                  \n
                  As for getting their actions to align with your morals, that’s a more complicated question that depends on the type of person they are.
                  """
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              +body: "How does a hardcore determinist believe in “shouldn’t?” Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?"
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            +body: """
              > Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?\n
              \n
              My answer changes depending on your meaning but:\n
              \n
              Of course. My brain is constantly updating and improving itself. I’m just not ultimately in control of how that process happens. Though that does not mean that I should stop living. I can still experience and enjoy my life, and ‘choose’ to improve it. It’s just that the I that made that choice is a consequence of my brain calculating optimal paths based on a myriad of factors: genetics, culture, circumstance, biological drives, personal history, drugs, etc.
              """
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          +body: """
            To clarify: are you saying that there is a “you” who is a separate entity from your brain (and the rest of your body?)\n
            \n
            Do you see it as your fingers are typing a reply and you’re just watching them do it on their own? You wouldn’t say that you’re the one typing?
            """
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        +body: """
          I believe consciousness is a result of processes of the brain, and the brain is a very complex machine. It’s hard to say anything too concretely beyond that because I don’t really understand how it works. I live as though the brain and my consciousness are in perfect sync, but I’m unsure how true that is.\n
          \n
          There are, for example, experiments where it can be shown that [decisions are made before we are consciously aware that we have made them](https://www.nature.com/articles/news.2008.751). Others show that [severing a nerve between the hemispheres of our brain can result in two independent consciousnesses.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-brain) Who can say where I end and my brain begins?
          """
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      +body: "Your brain is you, though, just like your hands are you. Whether there’s a lag between the time that imaging detects you made a decision and you say you made one does not change the fact that you’re the one making the decision."
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    +body: "That’s one way of seeing things, and I respect that viewpoint, but I disagree. I primarily view myself as my consciousness; everything else is secondary. How do you know you aren’t a [brain in a vat](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_in_a_vat)?"
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    The person making the claim has to advance the evidence. The default is the assumption that the way the universe presents itself is the way it is. If you want me to consider this possibility find supporting evidence for it.\n
    \n
    Also we have evidence against that model.
    """
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204 DENIED moderate 
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        A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
        -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        **Rules: (interactive)**\n
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        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
        \n
        ---\n
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        2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
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        3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
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        4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
        Partnered Communities:\n
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        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        ---\n
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        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
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                +body: """
                  I’m a fairly hardcore/radical determinist, and tend to agree that individuals shouldn’t be held morally responsible for actions, any more than a hammer is morally responsible for driving a nail. However, that does not mean people should be free from *consequence*. There are plenty of reasons - even as a hardcore determinist - to hold people to account for their actions, either as a social corrective mechanism, public safety, deterrent, or personal sanity.\n
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                  As for getting their actions to align with your morals, that’s a more complicated question that depends on the type of person they are.
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              +body: "How does a hardcore determinist believe in “shouldn’t?” Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?"
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            +body: """
              > Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?\n
              \n
              My answer changes depending on your meaning but:\n
              \n
              Of course. My brain is constantly updating and improving itself. I’m just not ultimately in control of how that process happens. Though that does not mean that I should stop living. I can still experience and enjoy my life, and ‘choose’ to improve it. It’s just that the I that made that choice is a consequence of my brain calculating optimal paths based on a myriad of factors: genetics, culture, circumstance, biological drives, personal history, drugs, etc.
              """
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          +body: """
            To clarify: are you saying that there is a “you” who is a separate entity from your brain (and the rest of your body?)\n
            \n
            Do you see it as your fingers are typing a reply and you’re just watching them do it on their own? You wouldn’t say that you’re the one typing?
            """
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        +body: """
          I believe consciousness is a result of processes of the brain, and the brain is a very complex machine. It’s hard to say anything too concretely beyond that because I don’t really understand how it works. I live as though the brain and my consciousness are in perfect sync, but I’m unsure how true that is.\n
          \n
          There are, for example, experiments where it can be shown that [decisions are made before we are consciously aware that we have made them](https://www.nature.com/articles/news.2008.751). Others show that [severing a nerve between the hemispheres of our brain can result in two independent consciousnesses.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-brain) Who can say where I end and my brain begins?
          """
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      +body: "Your brain is you, though, just like your hands are you. Whether there’s a lag between the time that imaging detects you made a decision and you say you made one does not change the fact that you’re the one making the decision."
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    +body: "That’s one way of seeing things, and I respect that viewpoint, but I disagree. I primarily view myself as my consciousness; everything else is secondary. How do you know you aren’t a [brain in a vat](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_in_a_vat)?"
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    The person making the claim has to advance the evidence. The default is the assumption that the way the universe presents itself is the way it is. If you want me to consider this possibility find supporting evidence for it.\n
    \n
    Also we have evidence against that model.
    """
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}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
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205 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
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206 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#5819
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      +title: "asklemmy"
      +description: """
        A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
        -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        **Rules: (interactive)**\n
        ------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
        Partnered Communities:\n
        ----------------------\n
        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
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        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
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        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
        """
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        date: 2023-10-13 08:03:47.0 +02:00
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    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#1915 …}
    +slug: "What-s-the-best-response-to-someone-who-believes-in-hard"
    +title: "What's the best response to someone who believes in hard determinism but also uses this to deny responsibility for any immoral actions they commit?"
    +url: null
    +body: "That is, they think all of their decisions were preordained, and then use this to claim that they can’t be held responsible for anything they do."
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              +user: App\Entity\User {#4957 …}
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              +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265}
              +image: null
              +parent: App\Entity\EntryComment {#5135
                +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#5136 …}
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                +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265}
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                +parent: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4944
                  +user: App\Entity\User {#4957 …}
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                  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265}
                  +image: null
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                  +body: """
                    I’m a fairly hardcore/radical determinist, and tend to agree that individuals shouldn’t be held morally responsible for actions, any more than a hammer is morally responsible for driving a nail. However, that does not mean people should be free from *consequence*. There are plenty of reasons - even as a hardcore determinist - to hold people to account for their actions, either as a social corrective mechanism, public safety, deterrent, or personal sanity.\n
                    \n
                    As for getting their actions to align with your morals, that’s a more complicated question that depends on the type of person they are.
                    """
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                }
                +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4944}
                +body: "How does a hardcore determinist believe in “shouldn’t?” Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?"
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              +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4944}
              +body: """
                > Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?\n
                \n
                My answer changes depending on your meaning but:\n
                \n
                Of course. My brain is constantly updating and improving itself. I’m just not ultimately in control of how that process happens. Though that does not mean that I should stop living. I can still experience and enjoy my life, and ‘choose’ to improve it. It’s just that the I that made that choice is a consequence of my brain calculating optimal paths based on a myriad of factors: genetics, culture, circumstance, biological drives, personal history, drugs, etc.
                """
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                "@bogdugg@sh.itjust.works"
                "@Moobythegoldensock@lemm.ee"
              ]
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                date: 2023-10-13 16:28:50.0 +02:00
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            }
            +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4944}
            +body: """
              To clarify: are you saying that there is a “you” who is a separate entity from your brain (and the rest of your body?)\n
              \n
              Do you see it as your fingers are typing a reply and you’re just watching them do it on their own? You wouldn’t say that you’re the one typing?
              """
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              "@bogdugg@sh.itjust.works"
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              date: 2023-10-13 17:45:07.0 +02:00
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          }
          +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4944}
          +body: """
            I believe consciousness is a result of processes of the brain, and the brain is a very complex machine. It’s hard to say anything too concretely beyond that because I don’t really understand how it works. I live as though the brain and my consciousness are in perfect sync, but I’m unsure how true that is.\n
            \n
            There are, for example, experiments where it can be shown that [decisions are made before we are consciously aware that we have made them](https://www.nature.com/articles/news.2008.751). Others show that [severing a nerve between the hemispheres of our brain can result in two independent consciousnesses.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-brain) Who can say where I end and my brain begins?
            """
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        }
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4944}
        +body: "Your brain is you, though, just like your hands are you. Whether there’s a lag between the time that imaging detects you made a decision and you say you made one does not change the fact that you’re the one making the decision."
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      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4944}
      +body: "That’s one way of seeing things, and I respect that viewpoint, but I disagree. I primarily view myself as my consciousness; everything else is secondary. How do you know you aren’t a [brain in a vat](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_in_a_vat)?"
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      The person making the claim has to advance the evidence. The default is the assumption that the way the universe presents itself is the way it is. If you want me to consider this possibility find supporting evidence for it.\n
      \n
      Also we have evidence against that model.
      """
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    > The default is the assumption that the way the universe presents itself is the way it is.\n
    \n
    Sure, but this is still an assumption I would need to agree to - though obviously a productive one - not necessarily true. The only thing I can know is my experience.\n
    \n
    This isn’t particularly useful beyond explaining why I view my consciousness as primary and hands secondary or tertiary or something. The brain is tricky because again, I don’t know where it ends and my consciousness begins.
    """
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        A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
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        ---\n
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        **Rules: (interactive)**\n
        ------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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        2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
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        4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
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        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
        Partnered Communities:\n
        ----------------------\n
        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
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        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
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        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
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        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
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                  +body: """
                    I’m a fairly hardcore/radical determinist, and tend to agree that individuals shouldn’t be held morally responsible for actions, any more than a hammer is morally responsible for driving a nail. However, that does not mean people should be free from *consequence*. There are plenty of reasons - even as a hardcore determinist - to hold people to account for their actions, either as a social corrective mechanism, public safety, deterrent, or personal sanity.\n
                    \n
                    As for getting their actions to align with your morals, that’s a more complicated question that depends on the type of person they are.
                    """
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                +body: "How does a hardcore determinist believe in “shouldn’t?” Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?"
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                > Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?\n
                \n
                My answer changes depending on your meaning but:\n
                \n
                Of course. My brain is constantly updating and improving itself. I’m just not ultimately in control of how that process happens. Though that does not mean that I should stop living. I can still experience and enjoy my life, and ‘choose’ to improve it. It’s just that the I that made that choice is a consequence of my brain calculating optimal paths based on a myriad of factors: genetics, culture, circumstance, biological drives, personal history, drugs, etc.
                """
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              To clarify: are you saying that there is a “you” who is a separate entity from your brain (and the rest of your body?)\n
              \n
              Do you see it as your fingers are typing a reply and you’re just watching them do it on their own? You wouldn’t say that you’re the one typing?
              """
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            I believe consciousness is a result of processes of the brain, and the brain is a very complex machine. It’s hard to say anything too concretely beyond that because I don’t really understand how it works. I live as though the brain and my consciousness are in perfect sync, but I’m unsure how true that is.\n
            \n
            There are, for example, experiments where it can be shown that [decisions are made before we are consciously aware that we have made them](https://www.nature.com/articles/news.2008.751). Others show that [severing a nerve between the hemispheres of our brain can result in two independent consciousnesses.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-brain) Who can say where I end and my brain begins?
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        +body: "Your brain is you, though, just like your hands are you. Whether there’s a lag between the time that imaging detects you made a decision and you say you made one does not change the fact that you’re the one making the decision."
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      +body: "That’s one way of seeing things, and I respect that viewpoint, but I disagree. I primarily view myself as my consciousness; everything else is secondary. How do you know you aren’t a [brain in a vat](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_in_a_vat)?"
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      The person making the claim has to advance the evidence. The default is the assumption that the way the universe presents itself is the way it is. If you want me to consider this possibility find supporting evidence for it.\n
      \n
      Also we have evidence against that model.
      """
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    > The default is the assumption that the way the universe presents itself is the way it is.\n
    \n
    Sure, but this is still an assumption I would need to agree to - though obviously a productive one - not necessarily true. The only thing I can know is my experience.\n
    \n
    This isn’t particularly useful beyond explaining why I view my consciousness as primary and hands secondary or tertiary or something. The brain is tricky because again, I don’t know where it ends and my consciousness begins.
    """
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208 DENIED moderate 
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        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
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        Partnered Communities:\n
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        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
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        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
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        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
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        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
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                    I’m a fairly hardcore/radical determinist, and tend to agree that individuals shouldn’t be held morally responsible for actions, any more than a hammer is morally responsible for driving a nail. However, that does not mean people should be free from *consequence*. There are plenty of reasons - even as a hardcore determinist - to hold people to account for their actions, either as a social corrective mechanism, public safety, deterrent, or personal sanity.\n
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                    As for getting their actions to align with your morals, that’s a more complicated question that depends on the type of person they are.
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                > Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?\n
                \n
                My answer changes depending on your meaning but:\n
                \n
                Of course. My brain is constantly updating and improving itself. I’m just not ultimately in control of how that process happens. Though that does not mean that I should stop living. I can still experience and enjoy my life, and ‘choose’ to improve it. It’s just that the I that made that choice is a consequence of my brain calculating optimal paths based on a myriad of factors: genetics, culture, circumstance, biological drives, personal history, drugs, etc.
                """
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                date: 2023-10-13 16:28:50.0 +02:00
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            +body: """
              To clarify: are you saying that there is a “you” who is a separate entity from your brain (and the rest of your body?)\n
              \n
              Do you see it as your fingers are typing a reply and you’re just watching them do it on their own? You wouldn’t say that you’re the one typing?
              """
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          +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4944}
          +body: """
            I believe consciousness is a result of processes of the brain, and the brain is a very complex machine. It’s hard to say anything too concretely beyond that because I don’t really understand how it works. I live as though the brain and my consciousness are in perfect sync, but I’m unsure how true that is.\n
            \n
            There are, for example, experiments where it can be shown that [decisions are made before we are consciously aware that we have made them](https://www.nature.com/articles/news.2008.751). Others show that [severing a nerve between the hemispheres of our brain can result in two independent consciousnesses.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-brain) Who can say where I end and my brain begins?
            """
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        +body: "Your brain is you, though, just like your hands are you. Whether there’s a lag between the time that imaging detects you made a decision and you say you made one does not change the fact that you’re the one making the decision."
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      +body: "That’s one way of seeing things, and I respect that viewpoint, but I disagree. I primarily view myself as my consciousness; everything else is secondary. How do you know you aren’t a [brain in a vat](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_in_a_vat)?"
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      The person making the claim has to advance the evidence. The default is the assumption that the way the universe presents itself is the way it is. If you want me to consider this possibility find supporting evidence for it.\n
      \n
      Also we have evidence against that model.
      """
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    > The default is the assumption that the way the universe presents itself is the way it is.\n
    \n
    Sure, but this is still an assumption I would need to agree to - though obviously a productive one - not necessarily true. The only thing I can know is my experience.\n
    \n
    This isn’t particularly useful beyond explaining why I view my consciousness as primary and hands secondary or tertiary or something. The brain is tricky because again, I don’t know where it ends and my consciousness begins.
    """
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        **Rules: (interactive)**\n
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        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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        2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
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        4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
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        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
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        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
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                    +body: """
                      I’m a fairly hardcore/radical determinist, and tend to agree that individuals shouldn’t be held morally responsible for actions, any more than a hammer is morally responsible for driving a nail. However, that does not mean people should be free from *consequence*. There are plenty of reasons - even as a hardcore determinist - to hold people to account for their actions, either as a social corrective mechanism, public safety, deterrent, or personal sanity.\n
                      \n
                      As for getting their actions to align with your morals, that’s a more complicated question that depends on the type of person they are.
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                  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4944}
                  +body: "How does a hardcore determinist believe in “shouldn’t?” Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?"
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                +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4944}
                +body: """
                  > Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?\n
                  \n
                  My answer changes depending on your meaning but:\n
                  \n
                  Of course. My brain is constantly updating and improving itself. I’m just not ultimately in control of how that process happens. Though that does not mean that I should stop living. I can still experience and enjoy my life, and ‘choose’ to improve it. It’s just that the I that made that choice is a consequence of my brain calculating optimal paths based on a myriad of factors: genetics, culture, circumstance, biological drives, personal history, drugs, etc.
                  """
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              +body: """
                To clarify: are you saying that there is a “you” who is a separate entity from your brain (and the rest of your body?)\n
                \n
                Do you see it as your fingers are typing a reply and you’re just watching them do it on their own? You wouldn’t say that you’re the one typing?
                """
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            +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4944}
            +body: """
              I believe consciousness is a result of processes of the brain, and the brain is a very complex machine. It’s hard to say anything too concretely beyond that because I don’t really understand how it works. I live as though the brain and my consciousness are in perfect sync, but I’m unsure how true that is.\n
              \n
              There are, for example, experiments where it can be shown that [decisions are made before we are consciously aware that we have made them](https://www.nature.com/articles/news.2008.751). Others show that [severing a nerve between the hemispheres of our brain can result in two independent consciousnesses.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-brain) Who can say where I end and my brain begins?
              """
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          +body: "Your brain is you, though, just like your hands are you. Whether there’s a lag between the time that imaging detects you made a decision and you say you made one does not change the fact that you’re the one making the decision."
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        +body: "That’s one way of seeing things, and I respect that viewpoint, but I disagree. I primarily view myself as my consciousness; everything else is secondary. How do you know you aren’t a [brain in a vat](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_in_a_vat)?"
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      +body: """
        The person making the claim has to advance the evidence. The default is the assumption that the way the universe presents itself is the way it is. If you want me to consider this possibility find supporting evidence for it.\n
        \n
        Also we have evidence against that model.
        """
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      > The default is the assumption that the way the universe presents itself is the way it is.\n
      \n
      Sure, but this is still an assumption I would need to agree to - though obviously a productive one - not necessarily true. The only thing I can know is my experience.\n
      \n
      This isn’t particularly useful beyond explaining why I view my consciousness as primary and hands secondary or tertiary or something. The brain is tricky because again, I don’t know where it ends and my consciousness begins.
      """
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  +body: """
    Incorrect. You can easily be deceived. The primary is physical reality that is the only thing that remains regardless of what you think. I have more evidence that the real world exists than I do that you are a thinking mind.\n
    \n
    Descartes ruined philosophy. Reality exists everything else we should question.
    """
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        A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
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        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
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        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
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    +slug: "What-s-the-best-response-to-someone-who-believes-in-hard"
    +title: "What's the best response to someone who believes in hard determinism but also uses this to deny responsibility for any immoral actions they commit?"
    +url: null
    +body: "That is, they think all of their decisions were preordained, and then use this to claim that they can’t be held responsible for anything they do."
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                    +body: """
                      I’m a fairly hardcore/radical determinist, and tend to agree that individuals shouldn’t be held morally responsible for actions, any more than a hammer is morally responsible for driving a nail. However, that does not mean people should be free from *consequence*. There are plenty of reasons - even as a hardcore determinist - to hold people to account for their actions, either as a social corrective mechanism, public safety, deterrent, or personal sanity.\n
                      \n
                      As for getting their actions to align with your morals, that’s a more complicated question that depends on the type of person they are.
                      """
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                  +body: "How does a hardcore determinist believe in “shouldn’t?” Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?"
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                +body: """
                  > Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?\n
                  \n
                  My answer changes depending on your meaning but:\n
                  \n
                  Of course. My brain is constantly updating and improving itself. I’m just not ultimately in control of how that process happens. Though that does not mean that I should stop living. I can still experience and enjoy my life, and ‘choose’ to improve it. It’s just that the I that made that choice is a consequence of my brain calculating optimal paths based on a myriad of factors: genetics, culture, circumstance, biological drives, personal history, drugs, etc.
                  """
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              +body: """
                To clarify: are you saying that there is a “you” who is a separate entity from your brain (and the rest of your body?)\n
                \n
                Do you see it as your fingers are typing a reply and you’re just watching them do it on their own? You wouldn’t say that you’re the one typing?
                """
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            +body: """
              I believe consciousness is a result of processes of the brain, and the brain is a very complex machine. It’s hard to say anything too concretely beyond that because I don’t really understand how it works. I live as though the brain and my consciousness are in perfect sync, but I’m unsure how true that is.\n
              \n
              There are, for example, experiments where it can be shown that [decisions are made before we are consciously aware that we have made them](https://www.nature.com/articles/news.2008.751). Others show that [severing a nerve between the hemispheres of our brain can result in two independent consciousnesses.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-brain) Who can say where I end and my brain begins?
              """
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          +body: "Your brain is you, though, just like your hands are you. Whether there’s a lag between the time that imaging detects you made a decision and you say you made one does not change the fact that you’re the one making the decision."
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        +body: "That’s one way of seeing things, and I respect that viewpoint, but I disagree. I primarily view myself as my consciousness; everything else is secondary. How do you know you aren’t a [brain in a vat](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_in_a_vat)?"
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      +body: """
        The person making the claim has to advance the evidence. The default is the assumption that the way the universe presents itself is the way it is. If you want me to consider this possibility find supporting evidence for it.\n
        \n
        Also we have evidence against that model.
        """
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      > The default is the assumption that the way the universe presents itself is the way it is.\n
      \n
      Sure, but this is still an assumption I would need to agree to - though obviously a productive one - not necessarily true. The only thing I can know is my experience.\n
      \n
      This isn’t particularly useful beyond explaining why I view my consciousness as primary and hands secondary or tertiary or something. The brain is tricky because again, I don’t know where it ends and my consciousness begins.
      """
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    Incorrect. You can easily be deceived. The primary is physical reality that is the only thing that remains regardless of what you think. I have more evidence that the real world exists than I do that you are a thinking mind.\n
    \n
    Descartes ruined philosophy. Reality exists everything else we should question.
    """
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212 DENIED moderate 
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        A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
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    +slug: "What-s-the-best-response-to-someone-who-believes-in-hard"
    +title: "What's the best response to someone who believes in hard determinism but also uses this to deny responsibility for any immoral actions they commit?"
    +url: null
    +body: "That is, they think all of their decisions were preordained, and then use this to claim that they can’t be held responsible for anything they do."
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                    +body: """
                      I’m a fairly hardcore/radical determinist, and tend to agree that individuals shouldn’t be held morally responsible for actions, any more than a hammer is morally responsible for driving a nail. However, that does not mean people should be free from *consequence*. There are plenty of reasons - even as a hardcore determinist - to hold people to account for their actions, either as a social corrective mechanism, public safety, deterrent, or personal sanity.\n
                      \n
                      As for getting their actions to align with your morals, that’s a more complicated question that depends on the type of person they are.
                      """
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                  +body: "How does a hardcore determinist believe in “shouldn’t?” Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?"
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                +body: """
                  > Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?\n
                  \n
                  My answer changes depending on your meaning but:\n
                  \n
                  Of course. My brain is constantly updating and improving itself. I’m just not ultimately in control of how that process happens. Though that does not mean that I should stop living. I can still experience and enjoy my life, and ‘choose’ to improve it. It’s just that the I that made that choice is a consequence of my brain calculating optimal paths based on a myriad of factors: genetics, culture, circumstance, biological drives, personal history, drugs, etc.
                  """
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              +body: """
                To clarify: are you saying that there is a “you” who is a separate entity from your brain (and the rest of your body?)\n
                \n
                Do you see it as your fingers are typing a reply and you’re just watching them do it on their own? You wouldn’t say that you’re the one typing?
                """
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            +body: """
              I believe consciousness is a result of processes of the brain, and the brain is a very complex machine. It’s hard to say anything too concretely beyond that because I don’t really understand how it works. I live as though the brain and my consciousness are in perfect sync, but I’m unsure how true that is.\n
              \n
              There are, for example, experiments where it can be shown that [decisions are made before we are consciously aware that we have made them](https://www.nature.com/articles/news.2008.751). Others show that [severing a nerve between the hemispheres of our brain can result in two independent consciousnesses.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-brain) Who can say where I end and my brain begins?
              """
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          +body: "Your brain is you, though, just like your hands are you. Whether there’s a lag between the time that imaging detects you made a decision and you say you made one does not change the fact that you’re the one making the decision."
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        +body: "That’s one way of seeing things, and I respect that viewpoint, but I disagree. I primarily view myself as my consciousness; everything else is secondary. How do you know you aren’t a [brain in a vat](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_in_a_vat)?"
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        The person making the claim has to advance the evidence. The default is the assumption that the way the universe presents itself is the way it is. If you want me to consider this possibility find supporting evidence for it.\n
        \n
        Also we have evidence against that model.
        """
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    +body: """
      > The default is the assumption that the way the universe presents itself is the way it is.\n
      \n
      Sure, but this is still an assumption I would need to agree to - though obviously a productive one - not necessarily true. The only thing I can know is my experience.\n
      \n
      This isn’t particularly useful beyond explaining why I view my consciousness as primary and hands secondary or tertiary or something. The brain is tricky because again, I don’t know where it ends and my consciousness begins.
      """
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    Incorrect. You can easily be deceived. The primary is physical reality that is the only thing that remains regardless of what you think. I have more evidence that the real world exists than I do that you are a thinking mind.\n
    \n
    Descartes ruined philosophy. Reality exists everything else we should question.
    """
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        A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
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        **Rules: (interactive)**\n
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        \n
        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
        \n
        ---\n
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        2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
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        4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
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        ---\n
        \n
        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
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        Partnered Communities:\n
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        \n
        ---\n
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        ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
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    +url: null
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                        I’m a fairly hardcore/radical determinist, and tend to agree that individuals shouldn’t be held morally responsible for actions, any more than a hammer is morally responsible for driving a nail. However, that does not mean people should be free from *consequence*. There are plenty of reasons - even as a hardcore determinist - to hold people to account for their actions, either as a social corrective mechanism, public safety, deterrent, or personal sanity.\n
                        \n
                        As for getting their actions to align with your morals, that’s a more complicated question that depends on the type of person they are.
                        """
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                    +body: "How does a hardcore determinist believe in “shouldn’t?” Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?"
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                    > Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?\n
                    \n
                    My answer changes depending on your meaning but:\n
                    \n
                    Of course. My brain is constantly updating and improving itself. I’m just not ultimately in control of how that process happens. Though that does not mean that I should stop living. I can still experience and enjoy my life, and ‘choose’ to improve it. It’s just that the I that made that choice is a consequence of my brain calculating optimal paths based on a myriad of factors: genetics, culture, circumstance, biological drives, personal history, drugs, etc.
                    """
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                  To clarify: are you saying that there is a “you” who is a separate entity from your brain (and the rest of your body?)\n
                  \n
                  Do you see it as your fingers are typing a reply and you’re just watching them do it on their own? You wouldn’t say that you’re the one typing?
                  """
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              +body: """
                I believe consciousness is a result of processes of the brain, and the brain is a very complex machine. It’s hard to say anything too concretely beyond that because I don’t really understand how it works. I live as though the brain and my consciousness are in perfect sync, but I’m unsure how true that is.\n
                \n
                There are, for example, experiments where it can be shown that [decisions are made before we are consciously aware that we have made them](https://www.nature.com/articles/news.2008.751). Others show that [severing a nerve between the hemispheres of our brain can result in two independent consciousnesses.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-brain) Who can say where I end and my brain begins?
                """
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            +body: "Your brain is you, though, just like your hands are you. Whether there’s a lag between the time that imaging detects you made a decision and you say you made one does not change the fact that you’re the one making the decision."
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          +body: "That’s one way of seeing things, and I respect that viewpoint, but I disagree. I primarily view myself as my consciousness; everything else is secondary. How do you know you aren’t a [brain in a vat](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_in_a_vat)?"
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        +body: """
          The person making the claim has to advance the evidence. The default is the assumption that the way the universe presents itself is the way it is. If you want me to consider this possibility find supporting evidence for it.\n
          \n
          Also we have evidence against that model.
          """
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        > The default is the assumption that the way the universe presents itself is the way it is.\n
        \n
        Sure, but this is still an assumption I would need to agree to - though obviously a productive one - not necessarily true. The only thing I can know is my experience.\n
        \n
        This isn’t particularly useful beyond explaining why I view my consciousness as primary and hands secondary or tertiary or something. The brain is tricky because again, I don’t know where it ends and my consciousness begins.
        """
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      Incorrect. You can easily be deceived. The primary is physical reality that is the only thing that remains regardless of what you think. I have more evidence that the real world exists than I do that you are a thinking mind.\n
      \n
      Descartes ruined philosophy. Reality exists everything else we should question.
      """
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  +body: """
    If your perception is subject to failure, so to is the evidence, no matter how convincing. So yes, we act upon the *assumption* that reality exists. We both agree with this.\n
    \n
    But that doesn’t mean it is *true*. And all I’m saying is for this very narrow point of what I care most about, Descartes does have a point. I care more about my mind than my foot. I mean, maybe you can think of a better way to frame the argument because I doubt you even disagree. If you have a gun and you are forced to shoot yourself anywhere on your body, would you choose your foot or your brain?\n
    \n
    The better counter to me would be to prove external value. Would I sacrifice myself for someone else? If I believe reality doesn’t exist, the answer should presumably be no. If I believe reality does exist, the answer could be yes. Or alternatively, shooting myself in the foot suggests I believe in a causal relationship within reality towards shooting my brain and losing consciousness, which I shouldn’t necessarily believe.\n
    \n
    But even then, it’s not that I disbelieve reality, it’s just that I can’t know for certain what’s real outside my mind, so there’s not really any contradiction between acting as if it is real and being uncertain if it is.\n
    \n
    All this is doesn’t matter anyway: the point is less you could be a brain in a vat, but rather if you were a brain in a vat, would you be any less you? I don’t think so.\n
    \n
    > I have more evidence that the real world exists than I do that you are a thinking mind.\n
    \n
    I have more evidence that I am a thinking mind than that I do that the real world exists. There’s no point arguing this point it won’t go anywhere.
    """
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        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
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                      +body: """
                        I’m a fairly hardcore/radical determinist, and tend to agree that individuals shouldn’t be held morally responsible for actions, any more than a hammer is morally responsible for driving a nail. However, that does not mean people should be free from *consequence*. There are plenty of reasons - even as a hardcore determinist - to hold people to account for their actions, either as a social corrective mechanism, public safety, deterrent, or personal sanity.\n
                        \n
                        As for getting their actions to align with your morals, that’s a more complicated question that depends on the type of person they are.
                        """
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                    +body: "How does a hardcore determinist believe in “shouldn’t?” Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?"
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                  +body: """
                    > Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?\n
                    \n
                    My answer changes depending on your meaning but:\n
                    \n
                    Of course. My brain is constantly updating and improving itself. I’m just not ultimately in control of how that process happens. Though that does not mean that I should stop living. I can still experience and enjoy my life, and ‘choose’ to improve it. It’s just that the I that made that choice is a consequence of my brain calculating optimal paths based on a myriad of factors: genetics, culture, circumstance, biological drives, personal history, drugs, etc.
                    """
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                  To clarify: are you saying that there is a “you” who is a separate entity from your brain (and the rest of your body?)\n
                  \n
                  Do you see it as your fingers are typing a reply and you’re just watching them do it on their own? You wouldn’t say that you’re the one typing?
                  """
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              +body: """
                I believe consciousness is a result of processes of the brain, and the brain is a very complex machine. It’s hard to say anything too concretely beyond that because I don’t really understand how it works. I live as though the brain and my consciousness are in perfect sync, but I’m unsure how true that is.\n
                \n
                There are, for example, experiments where it can be shown that [decisions are made before we are consciously aware that we have made them](https://www.nature.com/articles/news.2008.751). Others show that [severing a nerve between the hemispheres of our brain can result in two independent consciousnesses.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-brain) Who can say where I end and my brain begins?
                """
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            +body: "Your brain is you, though, just like your hands are you. Whether there’s a lag between the time that imaging detects you made a decision and you say you made one does not change the fact that you’re the one making the decision."
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          +body: "That’s one way of seeing things, and I respect that viewpoint, but I disagree. I primarily view myself as my consciousness; everything else is secondary. How do you know you aren’t a [brain in a vat](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_in_a_vat)?"
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          The person making the claim has to advance the evidence. The default is the assumption that the way the universe presents itself is the way it is. If you want me to consider this possibility find supporting evidence for it.\n
          \n
          Also we have evidence against that model.
          """
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        > The default is the assumption that the way the universe presents itself is the way it is.\n
        \n
        Sure, but this is still an assumption I would need to agree to - though obviously a productive one - not necessarily true. The only thing I can know is my experience.\n
        \n
        This isn’t particularly useful beyond explaining why I view my consciousness as primary and hands secondary or tertiary or something. The brain is tricky because again, I don’t know where it ends and my consciousness begins.
        """
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      Incorrect. You can easily be deceived. The primary is physical reality that is the only thing that remains regardless of what you think. I have more evidence that the real world exists than I do that you are a thinking mind.\n
      \n
      Descartes ruined philosophy. Reality exists everything else we should question.
      """
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  +body: """
    If your perception is subject to failure, so to is the evidence, no matter how convincing. So yes, we act upon the *assumption* that reality exists. We both agree with this.\n
    \n
    But that doesn’t mean it is *true*. And all I’m saying is for this very narrow point of what I care most about, Descartes does have a point. I care more about my mind than my foot. I mean, maybe you can think of a better way to frame the argument because I doubt you even disagree. If you have a gun and you are forced to shoot yourself anywhere on your body, would you choose your foot or your brain?\n
    \n
    The better counter to me would be to prove external value. Would I sacrifice myself for someone else? If I believe reality doesn’t exist, the answer should presumably be no. If I believe reality does exist, the answer could be yes. Or alternatively, shooting myself in the foot suggests I believe in a causal relationship within reality towards shooting my brain and losing consciousness, which I shouldn’t necessarily believe.\n
    \n
    But even then, it’s not that I disbelieve reality, it’s just that I can’t know for certain what’s real outside my mind, so there’s not really any contradiction between acting as if it is real and being uncertain if it is.\n
    \n
    All this is doesn’t matter anyway: the point is less you could be a brain in a vat, but rather if you were a brain in a vat, would you be any less you? I don’t think so.\n
    \n
    > I have more evidence that the real world exists than I do that you are a thinking mind.\n
    \n
    I have more evidence that I am a thinking mind than that I do that the real world exists. There’s no point arguing this point it won’t go anywhere.
    """
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216 DENIED moderate 
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        A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
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        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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        2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
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        4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
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        ---\n
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        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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                      +body: """
                        I’m a fairly hardcore/radical determinist, and tend to agree that individuals shouldn’t be held morally responsible for actions, any more than a hammer is morally responsible for driving a nail. However, that does not mean people should be free from *consequence*. There are plenty of reasons - even as a hardcore determinist - to hold people to account for their actions, either as a social corrective mechanism, public safety, deterrent, or personal sanity.\n
                        \n
                        As for getting their actions to align with your morals, that’s a more complicated question that depends on the type of person they are.
                        """
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                    +body: "How does a hardcore determinist believe in “shouldn’t?” Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?"
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                  +body: """
                    > Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?\n
                    \n
                    My answer changes depending on your meaning but:\n
                    \n
                    Of course. My brain is constantly updating and improving itself. I’m just not ultimately in control of how that process happens. Though that does not mean that I should stop living. I can still experience and enjoy my life, and ‘choose’ to improve it. It’s just that the I that made that choice is a consequence of my brain calculating optimal paths based on a myriad of factors: genetics, culture, circumstance, biological drives, personal history, drugs, etc.
                    """
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                  To clarify: are you saying that there is a “you” who is a separate entity from your brain (and the rest of your body?)\n
                  \n
                  Do you see it as your fingers are typing a reply and you’re just watching them do it on their own? You wouldn’t say that you’re the one typing?
                  """
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              +body: """
                I believe consciousness is a result of processes of the brain, and the brain is a very complex machine. It’s hard to say anything too concretely beyond that because I don’t really understand how it works. I live as though the brain and my consciousness are in perfect sync, but I’m unsure how true that is.\n
                \n
                There are, for example, experiments where it can be shown that [decisions are made before we are consciously aware that we have made them](https://www.nature.com/articles/news.2008.751). Others show that [severing a nerve between the hemispheres of our brain can result in two independent consciousnesses.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-brain) Who can say where I end and my brain begins?
                """
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            +body: "Your brain is you, though, just like your hands are you. Whether there’s a lag between the time that imaging detects you made a decision and you say you made one does not change the fact that you’re the one making the decision."
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          +body: "That’s one way of seeing things, and I respect that viewpoint, but I disagree. I primarily view myself as my consciousness; everything else is secondary. How do you know you aren’t a [brain in a vat](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_in_a_vat)?"
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          The person making the claim has to advance the evidence. The default is the assumption that the way the universe presents itself is the way it is. If you want me to consider this possibility find supporting evidence for it.\n
          \n
          Also we have evidence against that model.
          """
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        > The default is the assumption that the way the universe presents itself is the way it is.\n
        \n
        Sure, but this is still an assumption I would need to agree to - though obviously a productive one - not necessarily true. The only thing I can know is my experience.\n
        \n
        This isn’t particularly useful beyond explaining why I view my consciousness as primary and hands secondary or tertiary or something. The brain is tricky because again, I don’t know where it ends and my consciousness begins.
        """
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      Incorrect. You can easily be deceived. The primary is physical reality that is the only thing that remains regardless of what you think. I have more evidence that the real world exists than I do that you are a thinking mind.\n
      \n
      Descartes ruined philosophy. Reality exists everything else we should question.
      """
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  +body: """
    If your perception is subject to failure, so to is the evidence, no matter how convincing. So yes, we act upon the *assumption* that reality exists. We both agree with this.\n
    \n
    But that doesn’t mean it is *true*. And all I’m saying is for this very narrow point of what I care most about, Descartes does have a point. I care more about my mind than my foot. I mean, maybe you can think of a better way to frame the argument because I doubt you even disagree. If you have a gun and you are forced to shoot yourself anywhere on your body, would you choose your foot or your brain?\n
    \n
    The better counter to me would be to prove external value. Would I sacrifice myself for someone else? If I believe reality doesn’t exist, the answer should presumably be no. If I believe reality does exist, the answer could be yes. Or alternatively, shooting myself in the foot suggests I believe in a causal relationship within reality towards shooting my brain and losing consciousness, which I shouldn’t necessarily believe.\n
    \n
    But even then, it’s not that I disbelieve reality, it’s just that I can’t know for certain what’s real outside my mind, so there’s not really any contradiction between acting as if it is real and being uncertain if it is.\n
    \n
    All this is doesn’t matter anyway: the point is less you could be a brain in a vat, but rather if you were a brain in a vat, would you be any less you? I don’t think so.\n
    \n
    > I have more evidence that the real world exists than I do that you are a thinking mind.\n
    \n
    I have more evidence that I am a thinking mind than that I do that the real world exists. There’s no point arguing this point it won’t go anywhere.
    """
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        A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
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        \n
        ---\n
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        **Rules: (interactive)**\n
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        \n
        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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        2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
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        4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
        \n
        ---\n
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        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
        Partnered Communities:\n
        ----------------------\n
        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
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        \n
        [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        ---\n
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        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
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        ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
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                          I’m a fairly hardcore/radical determinist, and tend to agree that individuals shouldn’t be held morally responsible for actions, any more than a hammer is morally responsible for driving a nail. However, that does not mean people should be free from *consequence*. There are plenty of reasons - even as a hardcore determinist - to hold people to account for their actions, either as a social corrective mechanism, public safety, deterrent, or personal sanity.\n
                          \n
                          As for getting their actions to align with your morals, that’s a more complicated question that depends on the type of person they are.
                          """
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                      > Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?\n
                      \n
                      My answer changes depending on your meaning but:\n
                      \n
                      Of course. My brain is constantly updating and improving itself. I’m just not ultimately in control of how that process happens. Though that does not mean that I should stop living. I can still experience and enjoy my life, and ‘choose’ to improve it. It’s just that the I that made that choice is a consequence of my brain calculating optimal paths based on a myriad of factors: genetics, culture, circumstance, biological drives, personal history, drugs, etc.
                      """
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                  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4944}
                  +body: """
                    To clarify: are you saying that there is a “you” who is a separate entity from your brain (and the rest of your body?)\n
                    \n
                    Do you see it as your fingers are typing a reply and you’re just watching them do it on their own? You wouldn’t say that you’re the one typing?
                    """
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                    date: 2023-10-13 17:45:07.0 +02:00
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                }
                +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4944}
                +body: """
                  I believe consciousness is a result of processes of the brain, and the brain is a very complex machine. It’s hard to say anything too concretely beyond that because I don’t really understand how it works. I live as though the brain and my consciousness are in perfect sync, but I’m unsure how true that is.\n
                  \n
                  There are, for example, experiments where it can be shown that [decisions are made before we are consciously aware that we have made them](https://www.nature.com/articles/news.2008.751). Others show that [severing a nerve between the hemispheres of our brain can result in two independent consciousnesses.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-brain) Who can say where I end and my brain begins?
                  """
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              +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4944}
              +body: "Your brain is you, though, just like your hands are you. Whether there’s a lag between the time that imaging detects you made a decision and you say you made one does not change the fact that you’re the one making the decision."
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            +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4944}
            +body: "That’s one way of seeing things, and I respect that viewpoint, but I disagree. I primarily view myself as my consciousness; everything else is secondary. How do you know you aren’t a [brain in a vat](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_in_a_vat)?"
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          +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4944}
          +body: """
            The person making the claim has to advance the evidence. The default is the assumption that the way the universe presents itself is the way it is. If you want me to consider this possibility find supporting evidence for it.\n
            \n
            Also we have evidence against that model.
            """
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4944}
        +body: """
          > The default is the assumption that the way the universe presents itself is the way it is.\n
          \n
          Sure, but this is still an assumption I would need to agree to - though obviously a productive one - not necessarily true. The only thing I can know is my experience.\n
          \n
          This isn’t particularly useful beyond explaining why I view my consciousness as primary and hands secondary or tertiary or something. The brain is tricky because again, I don’t know where it ends and my consciousness begins.
          """
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      +body: """
        Incorrect. You can easily be deceived. The primary is physical reality that is the only thing that remains regardless of what you think. I have more evidence that the real world exists than I do that you are a thinking mind.\n
        \n
        Descartes ruined philosophy. Reality exists everything else we should question.
        """
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    +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4944}
    +body: """
      If your perception is subject to failure, so to is the evidence, no matter how convincing. So yes, we act upon the *assumption* that reality exists. We both agree with this.\n
      \n
      But that doesn’t mean it is *true*. And all I’m saying is for this very narrow point of what I care most about, Descartes does have a point. I care more about my mind than my foot. I mean, maybe you can think of a better way to frame the argument because I doubt you even disagree. If you have a gun and you are forced to shoot yourself anywhere on your body, would you choose your foot or your brain?\n
      \n
      The better counter to me would be to prove external value. Would I sacrifice myself for someone else? If I believe reality doesn’t exist, the answer should presumably be no. If I believe reality does exist, the answer could be yes. Or alternatively, shooting myself in the foot suggests I believe in a causal relationship within reality towards shooting my brain and losing consciousness, which I shouldn’t necessarily believe.\n
      \n
      But even then, it’s not that I disbelieve reality, it’s just that I can’t know for certain what’s real outside my mind, so there’s not really any contradiction between acting as if it is real and being uncertain if it is.\n
      \n
      All this is doesn’t matter anyway: the point is less you could be a brain in a vat, but rather if you were a brain in a vat, would you be any less you? I don’t think so.\n
      \n
      > I have more evidence that the real world exists than I do that you are a thinking mind.\n
      \n
      I have more evidence that I am a thinking mind than that I do that the real world exists. There’s no point arguing this point it won’t go anywhere.
      """
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  +body: """
    > would you be any less you?\n
    \n
    The endocrine system. What do you think cause you to get horny, to get excited, to be afraid, to know to seek out sleep?\n
    \n
    > I have more evidence that I am a thinking mind than that I do that the real world exists. There’s no point arguing this point it won’t go anywhere.\n
    \n
    You have very little evidence for that. You have as much as you want that the real world exists.
    """
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
219 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#5882
  +user: App\Entity\User {#3964 …}
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    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1970 …}
    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265
      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#246 …}
      +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.world"
      +title: "asklemmy"
      +description: """
        A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
        -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        **Rules: (interactive)**\n
        ------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
        \n
        ---\n
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        2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
        \n
        ---\n
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    +slug: "What-s-the-best-response-to-someone-who-believes-in-hard"
    +title: "What's the best response to someone who believes in hard determinism but also uses this to deny responsibility for any immoral actions they commit?"
    +url: null
    +body: "That is, they think all of their decisions were preordained, and then use this to claim that they can’t be held responsible for anything they do."
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                        +body: """
                          I’m a fairly hardcore/radical determinist, and tend to agree that individuals shouldn’t be held morally responsible for actions, any more than a hammer is morally responsible for driving a nail. However, that does not mean people should be free from *consequence*. There are plenty of reasons - even as a hardcore determinist - to hold people to account for their actions, either as a social corrective mechanism, public safety, deterrent, or personal sanity.\n
                          \n
                          As for getting their actions to align with your morals, that’s a more complicated question that depends on the type of person they are.
                          """
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                      +body: "How does a hardcore determinist believe in “shouldn’t?” Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?"
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                      > Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?\n
                      \n
                      My answer changes depending on your meaning but:\n
                      \n
                      Of course. My brain is constantly updating and improving itself. I’m just not ultimately in control of how that process happens. Though that does not mean that I should stop living. I can still experience and enjoy my life, and ‘choose’ to improve it. It’s just that the I that made that choice is a consequence of my brain calculating optimal paths based on a myriad of factors: genetics, culture, circumstance, biological drives, personal history, drugs, etc.
                      """
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                  +body: """
                    To clarify: are you saying that there is a “you” who is a separate entity from your brain (and the rest of your body?)\n
                    \n
                    Do you see it as your fingers are typing a reply and you’re just watching them do it on their own? You wouldn’t say that you’re the one typing?
                    """
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                +body: """
                  I believe consciousness is a result of processes of the brain, and the brain is a very complex machine. It’s hard to say anything too concretely beyond that because I don’t really understand how it works. I live as though the brain and my consciousness are in perfect sync, but I’m unsure how true that is.\n
                  \n
                  There are, for example, experiments where it can be shown that [decisions are made before we are consciously aware that we have made them](https://www.nature.com/articles/news.2008.751). Others show that [severing a nerve between the hemispheres of our brain can result in two independent consciousnesses.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-brain) Who can say where I end and my brain begins?
                  """
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              +body: "Your brain is you, though, just like your hands are you. Whether there’s a lag between the time that imaging detects you made a decision and you say you made one does not change the fact that you’re the one making the decision."
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            +body: "That’s one way of seeing things, and I respect that viewpoint, but I disagree. I primarily view myself as my consciousness; everything else is secondary. How do you know you aren’t a [brain in a vat](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_in_a_vat)?"
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            The person making the claim has to advance the evidence. The default is the assumption that the way the universe presents itself is the way it is. If you want me to consider this possibility find supporting evidence for it.\n
            \n
            Also we have evidence against that model.
            """
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          > The default is the assumption that the way the universe presents itself is the way it is.\n
          \n
          Sure, but this is still an assumption I would need to agree to - though obviously a productive one - not necessarily true. The only thing I can know is my experience.\n
          \n
          This isn’t particularly useful beyond explaining why I view my consciousness as primary and hands secondary or tertiary or something. The brain is tricky because again, I don’t know where it ends and my consciousness begins.
          """
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        Incorrect. You can easily be deceived. The primary is physical reality that is the only thing that remains regardless of what you think. I have more evidence that the real world exists than I do that you are a thinking mind.\n
        \n
        Descartes ruined philosophy. Reality exists everything else we should question.
        """
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    +body: """
      If your perception is subject to failure, so to is the evidence, no matter how convincing. So yes, we act upon the *assumption* that reality exists. We both agree with this.\n
      \n
      But that doesn’t mean it is *true*. And all I’m saying is for this very narrow point of what I care most about, Descartes does have a point. I care more about my mind than my foot. I mean, maybe you can think of a better way to frame the argument because I doubt you even disagree. If you have a gun and you are forced to shoot yourself anywhere on your body, would you choose your foot or your brain?\n
      \n
      The better counter to me would be to prove external value. Would I sacrifice myself for someone else? If I believe reality doesn’t exist, the answer should presumably be no. If I believe reality does exist, the answer could be yes. Or alternatively, shooting myself in the foot suggests I believe in a causal relationship within reality towards shooting my brain and losing consciousness, which I shouldn’t necessarily believe.\n
      \n
      But even then, it’s not that I disbelieve reality, it’s just that I can’t know for certain what’s real outside my mind, so there’s not really any contradiction between acting as if it is real and being uncertain if it is.\n
      \n
      All this is doesn’t matter anyway: the point is less you could be a brain in a vat, but rather if you were a brain in a vat, would you be any less you? I don’t think so.\n
      \n
      > I have more evidence that the real world exists than I do that you are a thinking mind.\n
      \n
      I have more evidence that I am a thinking mind than that I do that the real world exists. There’s no point arguing this point it won’t go anywhere.
      """
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    > would you be any less you?\n
    \n
    The endocrine system. What do you think cause you to get horny, to get excited, to be afraid, to know to seek out sleep?\n
    \n
    > I have more evidence that I am a thinking mind than that I do that the real world exists. There’s no point arguing this point it won’t go anywhere.\n
    \n
    You have very little evidence for that. You have as much as you want that the real world exists.
    """
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        A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
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        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
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        Partnered Communities:\n
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        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
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        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
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                        +body: """
                          I’m a fairly hardcore/radical determinist, and tend to agree that individuals shouldn’t be held morally responsible for actions, any more than a hammer is morally responsible for driving a nail. However, that does not mean people should be free from *consequence*. There are plenty of reasons - even as a hardcore determinist - to hold people to account for their actions, either as a social corrective mechanism, public safety, deterrent, or personal sanity.\n
                          \n
                          As for getting their actions to align with your morals, that’s a more complicated question that depends on the type of person they are.
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                      +body: "How does a hardcore determinist believe in “shouldn’t?” Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?"
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                      > Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?\n
                      \n
                      My answer changes depending on your meaning but:\n
                      \n
                      Of course. My brain is constantly updating and improving itself. I’m just not ultimately in control of how that process happens. Though that does not mean that I should stop living. I can still experience and enjoy my life, and ‘choose’ to improve it. It’s just that the I that made that choice is a consequence of my brain calculating optimal paths based on a myriad of factors: genetics, culture, circumstance, biological drives, personal history, drugs, etc.
                      """
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                      date: 2023-10-13 16:28:50.0 +02:00
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                  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4944}
                  +body: """
                    To clarify: are you saying that there is a “you” who is a separate entity from your brain (and the rest of your body?)\n
                    \n
                    Do you see it as your fingers are typing a reply and you’re just watching them do it on their own? You wouldn’t say that you’re the one typing?
                    """
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                    date: 2023-10-13 17:45:07.0 +02:00
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                }
                +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4944}
                +body: """
                  I believe consciousness is a result of processes of the brain, and the brain is a very complex machine. It’s hard to say anything too concretely beyond that because I don’t really understand how it works. I live as though the brain and my consciousness are in perfect sync, but I’m unsure how true that is.\n
                  \n
                  There are, for example, experiments where it can be shown that [decisions are made before we are consciously aware that we have made them](https://www.nature.com/articles/news.2008.751). Others show that [severing a nerve between the hemispheres of our brain can result in two independent consciousnesses.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-brain) Who can say where I end and my brain begins?
                  """
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              }
              +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4944}
              +body: "Your brain is you, though, just like your hands are you. Whether there’s a lag between the time that imaging detects you made a decision and you say you made one does not change the fact that you’re the one making the decision."
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            +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4944}
            +body: "That’s one way of seeing things, and I respect that viewpoint, but I disagree. I primarily view myself as my consciousness; everything else is secondary. How do you know you aren’t a [brain in a vat](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_in_a_vat)?"
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              date: 2023-10-13 19:38:30.0 +02:00
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          +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4944}
          +body: """
            The person making the claim has to advance the evidence. The default is the assumption that the way the universe presents itself is the way it is. If you want me to consider this possibility find supporting evidence for it.\n
            \n
            Also we have evidence against that model.
            """
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        +body: """
          > The default is the assumption that the way the universe presents itself is the way it is.\n
          \n
          Sure, but this is still an assumption I would need to agree to - though obviously a productive one - not necessarily true. The only thing I can know is my experience.\n
          \n
          This isn’t particularly useful beyond explaining why I view my consciousness as primary and hands secondary or tertiary or something. The brain is tricky because again, I don’t know where it ends and my consciousness begins.
          """
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      +body: """
        Incorrect. You can easily be deceived. The primary is physical reality that is the only thing that remains regardless of what you think. I have more evidence that the real world exists than I do that you are a thinking mind.\n
        \n
        Descartes ruined philosophy. Reality exists everything else we should question.
        """
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    +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4944}
    +body: """
      If your perception is subject to failure, so to is the evidence, no matter how convincing. So yes, we act upon the *assumption* that reality exists. We both agree with this.\n
      \n
      But that doesn’t mean it is *true*. And all I’m saying is for this very narrow point of what I care most about, Descartes does have a point. I care more about my mind than my foot. I mean, maybe you can think of a better way to frame the argument because I doubt you even disagree. If you have a gun and you are forced to shoot yourself anywhere on your body, would you choose your foot or your brain?\n
      \n
      The better counter to me would be to prove external value. Would I sacrifice myself for someone else? If I believe reality doesn’t exist, the answer should presumably be no. If I believe reality does exist, the answer could be yes. Or alternatively, shooting myself in the foot suggests I believe in a causal relationship within reality towards shooting my brain and losing consciousness, which I shouldn’t necessarily believe.\n
      \n
      But even then, it’s not that I disbelieve reality, it’s just that I can’t know for certain what’s real outside my mind, so there’s not really any contradiction between acting as if it is real and being uncertain if it is.\n
      \n
      All this is doesn’t matter anyway: the point is less you could be a brain in a vat, but rather if you were a brain in a vat, would you be any less you? I don’t think so.\n
      \n
      > I have more evidence that the real world exists than I do that you are a thinking mind.\n
      \n
      I have more evidence that I am a thinking mind than that I do that the real world exists. There’s no point arguing this point it won’t go anywhere.
      """
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  +body: """
    > would you be any less you?\n
    \n
    The endocrine system. What do you think cause you to get horny, to get excited, to be afraid, to know to seek out sleep?\n
    \n
    > I have more evidence that I am a thinking mind than that I do that the real world exists. There’s no point arguing this point it won’t go anywhere.\n
    \n
    You have very little evidence for that. You have as much as you want that the real world exists.
    """
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#5151
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      +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.world"
      +title: "asklemmy"
      +description: """
        A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
        -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        **Rules: (interactive)**\n
        ------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
        \n
        ---\n
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        2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
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        4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
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        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
        Partnered Communities:\n
        ----------------------\n
        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
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        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
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    I am genuinely and in good faith interested what you think about quantum mechanics and that there seems to be an element of true randomness there.\n
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        \n
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        \n
        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
        Partnered Communities:\n
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        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
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        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
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    I am genuinely and in good faith interested what you think about quantum mechanics and that there seems to be an element of true randomness there.\n
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        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
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        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
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        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
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      I’m a fairly hardcore/radical determinist, and tend to agree that individuals shouldn’t be held morally responsible for actions, any more than a hammer is morally responsible for driving a nail. However, that does not mean people should be free from *consequence*. There are plenty of reasons - even as a hardcore determinist - to hold people to account for their actions, either as a social corrective mechanism, public safety, deterrent, or personal sanity.\n
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    I am genuinely and in good faith interested what you think about quantum mechanics and that there seems to be an element of true randomness there.\n
    \n
    I was pretty much a determinist until an actual physicist that I know and respect told me that he is totally convinced that there is stuff in quantum mechanics that just cannot be predetermined.\n
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    And if anything can be undeterminable then by influencing other things there would exist true randomness and then a fully deterministic world cannot exist in my eyes.  \n
    But I am very willing to learn more if you know a good counter-argument since I always thought determinism is quite an elegant view of the world.  \n
    I just cannot follow it if I am not convinced it is true.
    """
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        \n
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        \n
        ---\n
        \n
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        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
        Partnered Communities:\n
        ----------------------\n
        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
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        I’m a fairly hardcore/radical determinist, and tend to agree that individuals shouldn’t be held morally responsible for actions, any more than a hammer is morally responsible for driving a nail. However, that does not mean people should be free from *consequence*. There are plenty of reasons - even as a hardcore determinist - to hold people to account for their actions, either as a social corrective mechanism, public safety, deterrent, or personal sanity.\n
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      I am genuinely and in good faith interested what you think about quantum mechanics and that there seems to be an element of true randomness there.\n
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      I was pretty much a determinist until an actual physicist that I know and respect told me that he is totally convinced that there is stuff in quantum mechanics that just cannot be predetermined.\n
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      I just cannot follow it if I am not convinced it is true.
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    There are layers to the universe. While you can’t predict everything you don’t usually need to. The object is dropped and therefore it falls. If you zoomed in deep enough you would see the chaos that is going on in the subatomic but the object still falls all the same.\n
    \n
    Not being able to predict everything does not mean we can predict nothing.
    """
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        ---\n
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        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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        4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
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        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
        \n
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        \n
        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
        Partnered Communities:\n
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        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
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        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
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        \n
        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
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        I’m a fairly hardcore/radical determinist, and tend to agree that individuals shouldn’t be held morally responsible for actions, any more than a hammer is morally responsible for driving a nail. However, that does not mean people should be free from *consequence*. There are plenty of reasons - even as a hardcore determinist - to hold people to account for their actions, either as a social corrective mechanism, public safety, deterrent, or personal sanity.\n
        \n
        As for getting their actions to align with your morals, that’s a more complicated question that depends on the type of person they are.
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      I am genuinely and in good faith interested what you think about quantum mechanics and that there seems to be an element of true randomness there.\n
      \n
      I was pretty much a determinist until an actual physicist that I know and respect told me that he is totally convinced that there is stuff in quantum mechanics that just cannot be predetermined.\n
      \n
      And if anything can be undeterminable then by influencing other things there would exist true randomness and then a fully deterministic world cannot exist in my eyes.  \n
      But I am very willing to learn more if you know a good counter-argument since I always thought determinism is quite an elegant view of the world.  \n
      I just cannot follow it if I am not convinced it is true.
      """
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    There are layers to the universe. While you can’t predict everything you don’t usually need to. The object is dropped and therefore it falls. If you zoomed in deep enough you would see the chaos that is going on in the subatomic but the object still falls all the same.\n
    \n
    Not being able to predict everything does not mean we can predict nothing.
    """
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        ---\n
        \n
        **Rules: (interactive)**\n
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        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
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      +body: """
        I’m a fairly hardcore/radical determinist, and tend to agree that individuals shouldn’t be held morally responsible for actions, any more than a hammer is morally responsible for driving a nail. However, that does not mean people should be free from *consequence*. There are plenty of reasons - even as a hardcore determinist - to hold people to account for their actions, either as a social corrective mechanism, public safety, deterrent, or personal sanity.\n
        \n
        As for getting their actions to align with your morals, that’s a more complicated question that depends on the type of person they are.
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      I am genuinely and in good faith interested what you think about quantum mechanics and that there seems to be an element of true randomness there.\n
      \n
      I was pretty much a determinist until an actual physicist that I know and respect told me that he is totally convinced that there is stuff in quantum mechanics that just cannot be predetermined.\n
      \n
      And if anything can be undeterminable then by influencing other things there would exist true randomness and then a fully deterministic world cannot exist in my eyes.  \n
      But I am very willing to learn more if you know a good counter-argument since I always thought determinism is quite an elegant view of the world.  \n
      I just cannot follow it if I am not convinced it is true.
      """
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    There are layers to the universe. While you can’t predict everything you don’t usually need to. The object is dropped and therefore it falls. If you zoomed in deep enough you would see the chaos that is going on in the subatomic but the object still falls all the same.\n
    \n
    Not being able to predict everything does not mean we can predict nothing.
    """
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        **Rules: (interactive)**\n
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        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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        4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
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        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
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        Partnered Communities:\n
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        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
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        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
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        I’m a fairly hardcore/radical determinist, and tend to agree that individuals shouldn’t be held morally responsible for actions, any more than a hammer is morally responsible for driving a nail. However, that does not mean people should be free from *consequence*. There are plenty of reasons - even as a hardcore determinist - to hold people to account for their actions, either as a social corrective mechanism, public safety, deterrent, or personal sanity.\n
        \n
        As for getting their actions to align with your morals, that’s a more complicated question that depends on the type of person they are.
        """
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    +body: """
      I am genuinely and in good faith interested what you think about quantum mechanics and that there seems to be an element of true randomness there.\n
      \n
      I was pretty much a determinist until an actual physicist that I know and respect told me that he is totally convinced that there is stuff in quantum mechanics that just cannot be predetermined.\n
      \n
      And if anything can be undeterminable then by influencing other things there would exist true randomness and then a fully deterministic world cannot exist in my eyes.  \n
      But I am very willing to learn more if you know a good counter-argument since I always thought determinism is quite an elegant view of the world.  \n
      I just cannot follow it if I am not convinced it is true.
      """
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  +body: "One interpretation would be Many Worlds; that is, every quantum possibility is real in its own multiversal branch. So, to assign moral agency you would need to show that I chose the world I’m in now, over some other version of my life in which different choices were made. Although, I’m not certain you even need to go that far: I have no idea to what degree quantum randomness can actually affect our choices. But, in any case, that too would be out of our control."
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        ---\n
        \n
        **Rules: (interactive)**\n
        ------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
        \n
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        2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
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        4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
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        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
        Partnered Communities:\n
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        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
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        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
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        \n
        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
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        I’m a fairly hardcore/radical determinist, and tend to agree that individuals shouldn’t be held morally responsible for actions, any more than a hammer is morally responsible for driving a nail. However, that does not mean people should be free from *consequence*. There are plenty of reasons - even as a hardcore determinist - to hold people to account for their actions, either as a social corrective mechanism, public safety, deterrent, or personal sanity.\n
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        As for getting their actions to align with your morals, that’s a more complicated question that depends on the type of person they are.
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      I am genuinely and in good faith interested what you think about quantum mechanics and that there seems to be an element of true randomness there.\n
      \n
      I was pretty much a determinist until an actual physicist that I know and respect told me that he is totally convinced that there is stuff in quantum mechanics that just cannot be predetermined.\n
      \n
      And if anything can be undeterminable then by influencing other things there would exist true randomness and then a fully deterministic world cannot exist in my eyes.  \n
      But I am very willing to learn more if you know a good counter-argument since I always thought determinism is quite an elegant view of the world.  \n
      I just cannot follow it if I am not convinced it is true.
      """
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  +body: "One interpretation would be Many Worlds; that is, every quantum possibility is real in its own multiversal branch. So, to assign moral agency you would need to show that I chose the world I’m in now, over some other version of my life in which different choices were made. Although, I’m not certain you even need to go that far: I have no idea to what degree quantum randomness can actually affect our choices. But, in any case, that too would be out of our control."
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#5284
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        **Rules: (interactive)**\n
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        \n
        ---\n
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        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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        I’m a fairly hardcore/radical determinist, and tend to agree that individuals shouldn’t be held morally responsible for actions, any more than a hammer is morally responsible for driving a nail. However, that does not mean people should be free from *consequence*. There are plenty of reasons - even as a hardcore determinist - to hold people to account for their actions, either as a social corrective mechanism, public safety, deterrent, or personal sanity.\n
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    +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4944}
    +body: """
      I am genuinely and in good faith interested what you think about quantum mechanics and that there seems to be an element of true randomness there.\n
      \n
      I was pretty much a determinist until an actual physicist that I know and respect told me that he is totally convinced that there is stuff in quantum mechanics that just cannot be predetermined.\n
      \n
      And if anything can be undeterminable then by influencing other things there would exist true randomness and then a fully deterministic world cannot exist in my eyes.  \n
      But I am very willing to learn more if you know a good counter-argument since I always thought determinism is quite an elegant view of the world.  \n
      I just cannot follow it if I am not convinced it is true.
      """
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      date: 2023-10-13 10:20:30.0 +02:00
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  }
  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4944}
  +body: "One interpretation would be Many Worlds; that is, every quantum possibility is real in its own multiversal branch. So, to assign moral agency you would need to show that I chose the world I’m in now, over some other version of my life in which different choices were made. Although, I’m not certain you even need to go that far: I have no idea to what degree quantum randomness can actually affect our choices. But, in any case, that too would be out of our control."
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        A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
        -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        **Rules: (interactive)**\n
        ------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
        \n
        ---\n
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        3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
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        ---\n
        \n
        4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
        Partnered Communities:\n
        ----------------------\n
        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
        """
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    +image: null
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#1915 …}
    +slug: "What-s-the-best-response-to-someone-who-believes-in-hard"
    +title: "What's the best response to someone who believes in hard determinism but also uses this to deny responsibility for any immoral actions they commit?"
    +url: null
    +body: "That is, they think all of their decisions were preordained, and then use this to claim that they can’t be held responsible for anything they do."
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      +body: """
        I’m a fairly hardcore/radical determinist, and tend to agree that individuals shouldn’t be held morally responsible for actions, any more than a hammer is morally responsible for driving a nail. However, that does not mean people should be free from *consequence*. There are plenty of reasons - even as a hardcore determinist - to hold people to account for their actions, either as a social corrective mechanism, public safety, deterrent, or personal sanity.\n
        \n
        As for getting their actions to align with your morals, that’s a more complicated question that depends on the type of person they are.
        """
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    +body: """
      I am genuinely and in good faith interested what you think about quantum mechanics and that there seems to be an element of true randomness there.\n
      \n
      I was pretty much a determinist until an actual physicist that I know and respect told me that he is totally convinced that there is stuff in quantum mechanics that just cannot be predetermined.\n
      \n
      And if anything can be undeterminable then by influencing other things there would exist true randomness and then a fully deterministic world cannot exist in my eyes.  \n
      But I am very willing to learn more if you know a good counter-argument since I always thought determinism is quite an elegant view of the world.  \n
      I just cannot follow it if I am not convinced it is true.
      """
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  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4944}
  +body: """
    Randomness doesn’t really save traditional free will. A robot that selects its actions by rolling dice is not any more “free to choose” than a robot that selects its actions according to a deterministic program. There isn’t any free-will juice that gets introduced by adding randomness.\n
    \n
    Your “free will” *is* the process by which you select actions. For humans, that’s a bunch of physics and chemistry happening in your brain; it receives influences from your senses, your body, and its own self-awareness (i.e. its model of you, your actions, tendencies, etc.). Whether that process depends closely on QM, or is boringly classical, doesn’t control how “self-determined” it is.
    """
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    "@toastus@feddit.de"
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}
 
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235 DENIED edit 
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      +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.world"
      +title: "asklemmy"
      +description: """
        A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
        -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        **Rules: (interactive)**\n
        ------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
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        ---\n
        \n
        4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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        ---\n
        \n
        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
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        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
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    +title: "What's the best response to someone who believes in hard determinism but also uses this to deny responsibility for any immoral actions they commit?"
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      +body: """
        I’m a fairly hardcore/radical determinist, and tend to agree that individuals shouldn’t be held morally responsible for actions, any more than a hammer is morally responsible for driving a nail. However, that does not mean people should be free from *consequence*. There are plenty of reasons - even as a hardcore determinist - to hold people to account for their actions, either as a social corrective mechanism, public safety, deterrent, or personal sanity.\n
        \n
        As for getting their actions to align with your morals, that’s a more complicated question that depends on the type of person they are.
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      I am genuinely and in good faith interested what you think about quantum mechanics and that there seems to be an element of true randomness there.\n
      \n
      I was pretty much a determinist until an actual physicist that I know and respect told me that he is totally convinced that there is stuff in quantum mechanics that just cannot be predetermined.\n
      \n
      And if anything can be undeterminable then by influencing other things there would exist true randomness and then a fully deterministic world cannot exist in my eyes.  \n
      But I am very willing to learn more if you know a good counter-argument since I always thought determinism is quite an elegant view of the world.  \n
      I just cannot follow it if I am not convinced it is true.
      """
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  +body: """
    Randomness doesn’t really save traditional free will. A robot that selects its actions by rolling dice is not any more “free to choose” than a robot that selects its actions according to a deterministic program. There isn’t any free-will juice that gets introduced by adding randomness.\n
    \n
    Your “free will” *is* the process by which you select actions. For humans, that’s a bunch of physics and chemistry happening in your brain; it receives influences from your senses, your body, and its own self-awareness (i.e. its model of you, your actions, tendencies, etc.). Whether that process depends closely on QM, or is boringly classical, doesn’t control how “self-determined” it is.
    """
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        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
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        I’m a fairly hardcore/radical determinist, and tend to agree that individuals shouldn’t be held morally responsible for actions, any more than a hammer is morally responsible for driving a nail. However, that does not mean people should be free from *consequence*. There are plenty of reasons - even as a hardcore determinist - to hold people to account for their actions, either as a social corrective mechanism, public safety, deterrent, or personal sanity.\n
        \n
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    +body: """
      I am genuinely and in good faith interested what you think about quantum mechanics and that there seems to be an element of true randomness there.\n
      \n
      I was pretty much a determinist until an actual physicist that I know and respect told me that he is totally convinced that there is stuff in quantum mechanics that just cannot be predetermined.\n
      \n
      And if anything can be undeterminable then by influencing other things there would exist true randomness and then a fully deterministic world cannot exist in my eyes.  \n
      But I am very willing to learn more if you know a good counter-argument since I always thought determinism is quite an elegant view of the world.  \n
      I just cannot follow it if I am not convinced it is true.
      """
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    Randomness doesn’t really save traditional free will. A robot that selects its actions by rolling dice is not any more “free to choose” than a robot that selects its actions according to a deterministic program. There isn’t any free-will juice that gets introduced by adding randomness.\n
    \n
    Your “free will” *is* the process by which you select actions. For humans, that’s a bunch of physics and chemistry happening in your brain; it receives influences from your senses, your body, and its own self-awareness (i.e. its model of you, your actions, tendencies, etc.). Whether that process depends closely on QM, or is boringly classical, doesn’t control how “self-determined” it is.
    """
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237 DENIED ROLE_USER 
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#5430
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        A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
        -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        **Rules: (interactive)**\n
        ------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
        \n
        ---\n
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        2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
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        3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
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        4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
        Partnered Communities:\n
        ----------------------\n
        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        ---\n
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        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
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        ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
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    +url: null
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        +body: """
          I’m a fairly hardcore/radical determinist, and tend to agree that individuals shouldn’t be held morally responsible for actions, any more than a hammer is morally responsible for driving a nail. However, that does not mean people should be free from *consequence*. There are plenty of reasons - even as a hardcore determinist - to hold people to account for their actions, either as a social corrective mechanism, public safety, deterrent, or personal sanity.\n
          \n
          As for getting their actions to align with your morals, that’s a more complicated question that depends on the type of person they are.
          """
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      +body: """
        I am genuinely and in good faith interested what you think about quantum mechanics and that there seems to be an element of true randomness there.\n
        \n
        I was pretty much a determinist until an actual physicist that I know and respect told me that he is totally convinced that there is stuff in quantum mechanics that just cannot be predetermined.\n
        \n
        And if anything can be undeterminable then by influencing other things there would exist true randomness and then a fully deterministic world cannot exist in my eyes.  \n
        But I am very willing to learn more if you know a good counter-argument since I always thought determinism is quite an elegant view of the world.  \n
        I just cannot follow it if I am not convinced it is true.
        """
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    +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4944}
    +body: """
      Randomness doesn’t really save traditional free will. A robot that selects its actions by rolling dice is not any more “free to choose” than a robot that selects its actions according to a deterministic program. There isn’t any free-will juice that gets introduced by adding randomness.\n
      \n
      Your “free will” *is* the process by which you select actions. For humans, that’s a bunch of physics and chemistry happening in your brain; it receives influences from your senses, your body, and its own self-awareness (i.e. its model of you, your actions, tendencies, etc.). Whether that process depends closely on QM, or is boringly classical, doesn’t control how “self-determined” it is.
      """
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      "@bogdugg@sh.itjust.works"
      "@toastus@feddit.de"
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      date: 2023-10-13 10:45:03.0 +02:00
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  +body: """
    I am not sure you replied to the right comment since I never mentioned free will at all but was more interested in how a person believing in determinism handles the current state of science that at least suggests the existence of true randomness.  \n
    In my eyes true randomness contradicts a deterministic world, but I am interested to learn more from anyone who is more educated on this topic.\n
    \n
    If I understand you correctly I agree with you though that what might be called free will is what happens in an individuals brain when they make a decision.  \n
    The discussion whether this decision making process in the brain can be truly free is a very interesting one, but not the one I wanted to have.\n
    \n
    My personal layman’s opinion is that my brain has enough uniqueness to it that the decisions I make are individually mine and there are other unique people that make their own individual choices.  \n
    If those choices and decisions are truly free matters less to me as long as they are truly individual.
    """
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        A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
        -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        **Rules: (interactive)**\n
        ------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
        \n
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        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
        \n
        ---\n
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        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
        Partnered Communities:\n
        ----------------------\n
        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
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    +title: "What's the best response to someone who believes in hard determinism but also uses this to deny responsibility for any immoral actions they commit?"
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        +body: """
          I’m a fairly hardcore/radical determinist, and tend to agree that individuals shouldn’t be held morally responsible for actions, any more than a hammer is morally responsible for driving a nail. However, that does not mean people should be free from *consequence*. There are plenty of reasons - even as a hardcore determinist - to hold people to account for their actions, either as a social corrective mechanism, public safety, deterrent, or personal sanity.\n
          \n
          As for getting their actions to align with your morals, that’s a more complicated question that depends on the type of person they are.
          """
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        I am genuinely and in good faith interested what you think about quantum mechanics and that there seems to be an element of true randomness there.\n
        \n
        I was pretty much a determinist until an actual physicist that I know and respect told me that he is totally convinced that there is stuff in quantum mechanics that just cannot be predetermined.\n
        \n
        And if anything can be undeterminable then by influencing other things there would exist true randomness and then a fully deterministic world cannot exist in my eyes.  \n
        But I am very willing to learn more if you know a good counter-argument since I always thought determinism is quite an elegant view of the world.  \n
        I just cannot follow it if I am not convinced it is true.
        """
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    +body: """
      Randomness doesn’t really save traditional free will. A robot that selects its actions by rolling dice is not any more “free to choose” than a robot that selects its actions according to a deterministic program. There isn’t any free-will juice that gets introduced by adding randomness.\n
      \n
      Your “free will” *is* the process by which you select actions. For humans, that’s a bunch of physics and chemistry happening in your brain; it receives influences from your senses, your body, and its own self-awareness (i.e. its model of you, your actions, tendencies, etc.). Whether that process depends closely on QM, or is boringly classical, doesn’t control how “self-determined” it is.
      """
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  +body: """
    I am not sure you replied to the right comment since I never mentioned free will at all but was more interested in how a person believing in determinism handles the current state of science that at least suggests the existence of true randomness.  \n
    In my eyes true randomness contradicts a deterministic world, but I am interested to learn more from anyone who is more educated on this topic.\n
    \n
    If I understand you correctly I agree with you though that what might be called free will is what happens in an individuals brain when they make a decision.  \n
    The discussion whether this decision making process in the brain can be truly free is a very interesting one, but not the one I wanted to have.\n
    \n
    My personal layman’s opinion is that my brain has enough uniqueness to it that the decisions I make are individually mine and there are other unique people that make their own individual choices.  \n
    If those choices and decisions are truly free matters less to me as long as they are truly individual.
    """
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        A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
        -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        **Rules: (interactive)**\n
        ------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
        \n
        ---\n
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        3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
        Partnered Communities:\n
        ----------------------\n
        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
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        \n
        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
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          I’m a fairly hardcore/radical determinist, and tend to agree that individuals shouldn’t be held morally responsible for actions, any more than a hammer is morally responsible for driving a nail. However, that does not mean people should be free from *consequence*. There are plenty of reasons - even as a hardcore determinist - to hold people to account for their actions, either as a social corrective mechanism, public safety, deterrent, or personal sanity.\n
          \n
          As for getting their actions to align with your morals, that’s a more complicated question that depends on the type of person they are.
          """
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        I am genuinely and in good faith interested what you think about quantum mechanics and that there seems to be an element of true randomness there.\n
        \n
        I was pretty much a determinist until an actual physicist that I know and respect told me that he is totally convinced that there is stuff in quantum mechanics that just cannot be predetermined.\n
        \n
        And if anything can be undeterminable then by influencing other things there would exist true randomness and then a fully deterministic world cannot exist in my eyes.  \n
        But I am very willing to learn more if you know a good counter-argument since I always thought determinism is quite an elegant view of the world.  \n
        I just cannot follow it if I am not convinced it is true.
        """
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      Randomness doesn’t really save traditional free will. A robot that selects its actions by rolling dice is not any more “free to choose” than a robot that selects its actions according to a deterministic program. There isn’t any free-will juice that gets introduced by adding randomness.\n
      \n
      Your “free will” *is* the process by which you select actions. For humans, that’s a bunch of physics and chemistry happening in your brain; it receives influences from your senses, your body, and its own self-awareness (i.e. its model of you, your actions, tendencies, etc.). Whether that process depends closely on QM, or is boringly classical, doesn’t control how “self-determined” it is.
      """
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    I am not sure you replied to the right comment since I never mentioned free will at all but was more interested in how a person believing in determinism handles the current state of science that at least suggests the existence of true randomness.  \n
    In my eyes true randomness contradicts a deterministic world, but I am interested to learn more from anyone who is more educated on this topic.\n
    \n
    If I understand you correctly I agree with you though that what might be called free will is what happens in an individuals brain when they make a decision.  \n
    The discussion whether this decision making process in the brain can be truly free is a very interesting one, but not the one I wanted to have.\n
    \n
    My personal layman’s opinion is that my brain has enough uniqueness to it that the decisions I make are individually mine and there are other unique people that make their own individual choices.  \n
    If those choices and decisions are truly free matters less to me as long as they are truly individual.
    """
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        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
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            I’m a fairly hardcore/radical determinist, and tend to agree that individuals shouldn’t be held morally responsible for actions, any more than a hammer is morally responsible for driving a nail. However, that does not mean people should be free from *consequence*. There are plenty of reasons - even as a hardcore determinist - to hold people to account for their actions, either as a social corrective mechanism, public safety, deterrent, or personal sanity.\n
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            As for getting their actions to align with your morals, that’s a more complicated question that depends on the type of person they are.
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          I am genuinely and in good faith interested what you think about quantum mechanics and that there seems to be an element of true randomness there.\n
          \n
          I was pretty much a determinist until an actual physicist that I know and respect told me that he is totally convinced that there is stuff in quantum mechanics that just cannot be predetermined.\n
          \n
          And if anything can be undeterminable then by influencing other things there would exist true randomness and then a fully deterministic world cannot exist in my eyes.  \n
          But I am very willing to learn more if you know a good counter-argument since I always thought determinism is quite an elegant view of the world.  \n
          I just cannot follow it if I am not convinced it is true.
          """
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      +body: """
        Randomness doesn’t really save traditional free will. A robot that selects its actions by rolling dice is not any more “free to choose” than a robot that selects its actions according to a deterministic program. There isn’t any free-will juice that gets introduced by adding randomness.\n
        \n
        Your “free will” *is* the process by which you select actions. For humans, that’s a bunch of physics and chemistry happening in your brain; it receives influences from your senses, your body, and its own self-awareness (i.e. its model of you, your actions, tendencies, etc.). Whether that process depends closely on QM, or is boringly classical, doesn’t control how “self-determined” it is.
        """
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    +body: """
      I am not sure you replied to the right comment since I never mentioned free will at all but was more interested in how a person believing in determinism handles the current state of science that at least suggests the existence of true randomness.  \n
      In my eyes true randomness contradicts a deterministic world, but I am interested to learn more from anyone who is more educated on this topic.\n
      \n
      If I understand you correctly I agree with you though that what might be called free will is what happens in an individuals brain when they make a decision.  \n
      The discussion whether this decision making process in the brain can be truly free is a very interesting one, but not the one I wanted to have.\n
      \n
      My personal layman’s opinion is that my brain has enough uniqueness to it that the decisions I make are individually mine and there are other unique people that make their own individual choices.  \n
      If those choices and decisions are truly free matters less to me as long as they are truly individual.
      """
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    I’m not the other person, but I think you might be confusing the term “determinism.” I think you might also have a bit of an over-enthusiastic understanding of quantum mechanics, which is a very common problem when people have QM explained in lay person terms I’m not going to get into the QM stuff because I’m a biologist and not a physicist, and I think your world just became more interesting with your new information. I’d just say hold off on the conclusions until you read a bit more, and start sliding towards the actual science books rather than the pop science books as you get your feet under you. You’ll have a different appreciation once you can read an advanced undergraduate textbook on modern physics.\n
    \n
    Determinism as used here means behavioral determinism. There is significant evidence that a large number of our actions and reactions aren’t thought through, but rather are “automatic” responses. In fact, some neuroimaging work on decision-making has indicated that we reach a conclusion and then reverse-justify it by thinking we’re thinking about it. My subconscious mind has already decided to buy the bagel, but my conscious mind is still talking itself into it.\n
    \n
    Again, people can take that kind of thing to an unjustified extreme. I think free will exists in a limited sense, but that it is highly constrained. In this case (the original question, not the person to whom you’re replying) is using their own misunderstanding of behavioral determinism to excuse their misbehavior. It’s a self-indulgent philosophy that you can probably pick apart if you really wanted to spend the time and effort in making them meticulously explain every step and aspect of their position, but it’s probably easier to just drop the person or to deal with them while remembering they’re possibly clinically psychotic, but almost definitely at least an asshole.
    """
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        A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
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        **Rules: (interactive)**\n
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        \n
        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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        2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
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        4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
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        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
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          +body: """
            I’m a fairly hardcore/radical determinist, and tend to agree that individuals shouldn’t be held morally responsible for actions, any more than a hammer is morally responsible for driving a nail. However, that does not mean people should be free from *consequence*. There are plenty of reasons - even as a hardcore determinist - to hold people to account for their actions, either as a social corrective mechanism, public safety, deterrent, or personal sanity.\n
            \n
            As for getting their actions to align with your morals, that’s a more complicated question that depends on the type of person they are.
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          I am genuinely and in good faith interested what you think about quantum mechanics and that there seems to be an element of true randomness there.\n
          \n
          I was pretty much a determinist until an actual physicist that I know and respect told me that he is totally convinced that there is stuff in quantum mechanics that just cannot be predetermined.\n
          \n
          And if anything can be undeterminable then by influencing other things there would exist true randomness and then a fully deterministic world cannot exist in my eyes.  \n
          But I am very willing to learn more if you know a good counter-argument since I always thought determinism is quite an elegant view of the world.  \n
          I just cannot follow it if I am not convinced it is true.
          """
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      +body: """
        Randomness doesn’t really save traditional free will. A robot that selects its actions by rolling dice is not any more “free to choose” than a robot that selects its actions according to a deterministic program. There isn’t any free-will juice that gets introduced by adding randomness.\n
        \n
        Your “free will” *is* the process by which you select actions. For humans, that’s a bunch of physics and chemistry happening in your brain; it receives influences from your senses, your body, and its own self-awareness (i.e. its model of you, your actions, tendencies, etc.). Whether that process depends closely on QM, or is boringly classical, doesn’t control how “self-determined” it is.
        """
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      I am not sure you replied to the right comment since I never mentioned free will at all but was more interested in how a person believing in determinism handles the current state of science that at least suggests the existence of true randomness.  \n
      In my eyes true randomness contradicts a deterministic world, but I am interested to learn more from anyone who is more educated on this topic.\n
      \n
      If I understand you correctly I agree with you though that what might be called free will is what happens in an individuals brain when they make a decision.  \n
      The discussion whether this decision making process in the brain can be truly free is a very interesting one, but not the one I wanted to have.\n
      \n
      My personal layman’s opinion is that my brain has enough uniqueness to it that the decisions I make are individually mine and there are other unique people that make their own individual choices.  \n
      If those choices and decisions are truly free matters less to me as long as they are truly individual.
      """
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    I’m not the other person, but I think you might be confusing the term “determinism.” I think you might also have a bit of an over-enthusiastic understanding of quantum mechanics, which is a very common problem when people have QM explained in lay person terms I’m not going to get into the QM stuff because I’m a biologist and not a physicist, and I think your world just became more interesting with your new information. I’d just say hold off on the conclusions until you read a bit more, and start sliding towards the actual science books rather than the pop science books as you get your feet under you. You’ll have a different appreciation once you can read an advanced undergraduate textbook on modern physics.\n
    \n
    Determinism as used here means behavioral determinism. There is significant evidence that a large number of our actions and reactions aren’t thought through, but rather are “automatic” responses. In fact, some neuroimaging work on decision-making has indicated that we reach a conclusion and then reverse-justify it by thinking we’re thinking about it. My subconscious mind has already decided to buy the bagel, but my conscious mind is still talking itself into it.\n
    \n
    Again, people can take that kind of thing to an unjustified extreme. I think free will exists in a limited sense, but that it is highly constrained. In this case (the original question, not the person to whom you’re replying) is using their own misunderstanding of behavioral determinism to excuse their misbehavior. It’s a self-indulgent philosophy that you can probably pick apart if you really wanted to spend the time and effort in making them meticulously explain every step and aspect of their position, but it’s probably easier to just drop the person or to deal with them while remembering they’re possibly clinically psychotic, but almost definitely at least an asshole.
    """
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            I’m a fairly hardcore/radical determinist, and tend to agree that individuals shouldn’t be held morally responsible for actions, any more than a hammer is morally responsible for driving a nail. However, that does not mean people should be free from *consequence*. There are plenty of reasons - even as a hardcore determinist - to hold people to account for their actions, either as a social corrective mechanism, public safety, deterrent, or personal sanity.\n
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            As for getting their actions to align with your morals, that’s a more complicated question that depends on the type of person they are.
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          I am genuinely and in good faith interested what you think about quantum mechanics and that there seems to be an element of true randomness there.\n
          \n
          I was pretty much a determinist until an actual physicist that I know and respect told me that he is totally convinced that there is stuff in quantum mechanics that just cannot be predetermined.\n
          \n
          And if anything can be undeterminable then by influencing other things there would exist true randomness and then a fully deterministic world cannot exist in my eyes.  \n
          But I am very willing to learn more if you know a good counter-argument since I always thought determinism is quite an elegant view of the world.  \n
          I just cannot follow it if I am not convinced it is true.
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        Randomness doesn’t really save traditional free will. A robot that selects its actions by rolling dice is not any more “free to choose” than a robot that selects its actions according to a deterministic program. There isn’t any free-will juice that gets introduced by adding randomness.\n
        \n
        Your “free will” *is* the process by which you select actions. For humans, that’s a bunch of physics and chemistry happening in your brain; it receives influences from your senses, your body, and its own self-awareness (i.e. its model of you, your actions, tendencies, etc.). Whether that process depends closely on QM, or is boringly classical, doesn’t control how “self-determined” it is.
        """
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      I am not sure you replied to the right comment since I never mentioned free will at all but was more interested in how a person believing in determinism handles the current state of science that at least suggests the existence of true randomness.  \n
      In my eyes true randomness contradicts a deterministic world, but I am interested to learn more from anyone who is more educated on this topic.\n
      \n
      If I understand you correctly I agree with you though that what might be called free will is what happens in an individuals brain when they make a decision.  \n
      The discussion whether this decision making process in the brain can be truly free is a very interesting one, but not the one I wanted to have.\n
      \n
      My personal layman’s opinion is that my brain has enough uniqueness to it that the decisions I make are individually mine and there are other unique people that make their own individual choices.  \n
      If those choices and decisions are truly free matters less to me as long as they are truly individual.
      """
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    I’m not the other person, but I think you might be confusing the term “determinism.” I think you might also have a bit of an over-enthusiastic understanding of quantum mechanics, which is a very common problem when people have QM explained in lay person terms I’m not going to get into the QM stuff because I’m a biologist and not a physicist, and I think your world just became more interesting with your new information. I’d just say hold off on the conclusions until you read a bit more, and start sliding towards the actual science books rather than the pop science books as you get your feet under you. You’ll have a different appreciation once you can read an advanced undergraduate textbook on modern physics.\n
    \n
    Determinism as used here means behavioral determinism. There is significant evidence that a large number of our actions and reactions aren’t thought through, but rather are “automatic” responses. In fact, some neuroimaging work on decision-making has indicated that we reach a conclusion and then reverse-justify it by thinking we’re thinking about it. My subconscious mind has already decided to buy the bagel, but my conscious mind is still talking itself into it.\n
    \n
    Again, people can take that kind of thing to an unjustified extreme. I think free will exists in a limited sense, but that it is highly constrained. In this case (the original question, not the person to whom you’re replying) is using their own misunderstanding of behavioral determinism to excuse their misbehavior. It’s a self-indulgent philosophy that you can probably pick apart if you really wanted to spend the time and effort in making them meticulously explain every step and aspect of their position, but it’s probably easier to just drop the person or to deal with them while remembering they’re possibly clinically psychotic, but almost definitely at least an asshole.
    """
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        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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              I’m a fairly hardcore/radical determinist, and tend to agree that individuals shouldn’t be held morally responsible for actions, any more than a hammer is morally responsible for driving a nail. However, that does not mean people should be free from *consequence*. There are plenty of reasons - even as a hardcore determinist - to hold people to account for their actions, either as a social corrective mechanism, public safety, deterrent, or personal sanity.\n
              \n
              As for getting their actions to align with your morals, that’s a more complicated question that depends on the type of person they are.
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            I am genuinely and in good faith interested what you think about quantum mechanics and that there seems to be an element of true randomness there.\n
            \n
            I was pretty much a determinist until an actual physicist that I know and respect told me that he is totally convinced that there is stuff in quantum mechanics that just cannot be predetermined.\n
            \n
            And if anything can be undeterminable then by influencing other things there would exist true randomness and then a fully deterministic world cannot exist in my eyes.  \n
            But I am very willing to learn more if you know a good counter-argument since I always thought determinism is quite an elegant view of the world.  \n
            I just cannot follow it if I am not convinced it is true.
            """
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          Randomness doesn’t really save traditional free will. A robot that selects its actions by rolling dice is not any more “free to choose” than a robot that selects its actions according to a deterministic program. There isn’t any free-will juice that gets introduced by adding randomness.\n
          \n
          Your “free will” *is* the process by which you select actions. For humans, that’s a bunch of physics and chemistry happening in your brain; it receives influences from your senses, your body, and its own self-awareness (i.e. its model of you, your actions, tendencies, etc.). Whether that process depends closely on QM, or is boringly classical, doesn’t control how “self-determined” it is.
          """
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        I am not sure you replied to the right comment since I never mentioned free will at all but was more interested in how a person believing in determinism handles the current state of science that at least suggests the existence of true randomness.  \n
        In my eyes true randomness contradicts a deterministic world, but I am interested to learn more from anyone who is more educated on this topic.\n
        \n
        If I understand you correctly I agree with you though that what might be called free will is what happens in an individuals brain when they make a decision.  \n
        The discussion whether this decision making process in the brain can be truly free is a very interesting one, but not the one I wanted to have.\n
        \n
        My personal layman’s opinion is that my brain has enough uniqueness to it that the decisions I make are individually mine and there are other unique people that make their own individual choices.  \n
        If those choices and decisions are truly free matters less to me as long as they are truly individual.
        """
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      I’m not the other person, but I think you might be confusing the term “determinism.” I think you might also have a bit of an over-enthusiastic understanding of quantum mechanics, which is a very common problem when people have QM explained in lay person terms I’m not going to get into the QM stuff because I’m a biologist and not a physicist, and I think your world just became more interesting with your new information. I’d just say hold off on the conclusions until you read a bit more, and start sliding towards the actual science books rather than the pop science books as you get your feet under you. You’ll have a different appreciation once you can read an advanced undergraduate textbook on modern physics.\n
      \n
      Determinism as used here means behavioral determinism. There is significant evidence that a large number of our actions and reactions aren’t thought through, but rather are “automatic” responses. In fact, some neuroimaging work on decision-making has indicated that we reach a conclusion and then reverse-justify it by thinking we’re thinking about it. My subconscious mind has already decided to buy the bagel, but my conscious mind is still talking itself into it.\n
      \n
      Again, people can take that kind of thing to an unjustified extreme. I think free will exists in a limited sense, but that it is highly constrained. In this case (the original question, not the person to whom you’re replying) is using their own misunderstanding of behavioral determinism to excuse their misbehavior. It’s a self-indulgent philosophy that you can probably pick apart if you really wanted to spend the time and effort in making them meticulously explain every step and aspect of their position, but it’s probably easier to just drop the person or to deal with them while remembering they’re possibly clinically psychotic, but almost definitely at least an asshole.
      """
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    First off, thank you for the detailed response.  \n
    I recognize that you know more about this than me so I am happy to learn.\n
    \n
    There are a couple of points in your post though that I want to reply to.\n
    \n
    > Determinism as used here means behavioral determinism.\n
    \n
    That is explicitly **not** what I want to talk about.  \n
    I might have misworded my first post or misunderstood op but I understand determinism as the view that with perfect information over any system it can be predetermined what will happen in the future of this system. Wikipedia says: [Determinism is the philosophical view that events are completely determined by previously existing causes.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Determinism)\n
    \n
    I thought that to be the case for a long time.  \n
    If I could control all the variables I could roll a die to a 6 every time or at least tell the outcome as soon as it’s thrown if I know everything else there is to know.\n
    \n
    I also recognize that my understanding of modern physics is minimal at best.  \n
    But a physicist friend of mine told me that there is stuff that is truly random, so in gross simplification if I throw the exact same die in the exact same way under the exact same conditions it could still show different results making it impossible to predetermine the result.\n
    \n
    If that is the case I don’t think this world is a system where it is possible to determine the future even with perfect information.\n
    \n
    And maybe you are right that my knowledge is just too superficial to hold a real opinion in the debate between determinism and indeterminism, but I also don’t really have a horse in this race.  \n
    Just if you were to ask me as a layman I would think indeterminism to be more plausible given the (grossly simplified) information above.\n
    \n
    The OP that I replied to described himself as a determinist, so I was just curious of their response.  \n
    But now I got a lot of other input to think about so I am happy either way.\n
    \n
    Again, none if this is meant to attack you and I realize to someone more informed this might just seem as random rambling, but I was just honestly interested so thank you again for the response.
    """
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              I’m a fairly hardcore/radical determinist, and tend to agree that individuals shouldn’t be held morally responsible for actions, any more than a hammer is morally responsible for driving a nail. However, that does not mean people should be free from *consequence*. There are plenty of reasons - even as a hardcore determinist - to hold people to account for their actions, either as a social corrective mechanism, public safety, deterrent, or personal sanity.\n
              \n
              As for getting their actions to align with your morals, that’s a more complicated question that depends on the type of person they are.
              """
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            I am genuinely and in good faith interested what you think about quantum mechanics and that there seems to be an element of true randomness there.\n
            \n
            I was pretty much a determinist until an actual physicist that I know and respect told me that he is totally convinced that there is stuff in quantum mechanics that just cannot be predetermined.\n
            \n
            And if anything can be undeterminable then by influencing other things there would exist true randomness and then a fully deterministic world cannot exist in my eyes.  \n
            But I am very willing to learn more if you know a good counter-argument since I always thought determinism is quite an elegant view of the world.  \n
            I just cannot follow it if I am not convinced it is true.
            """
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          Randomness doesn’t really save traditional free will. A robot that selects its actions by rolling dice is not any more “free to choose” than a robot that selects its actions according to a deterministic program. There isn’t any free-will juice that gets introduced by adding randomness.\n
          \n
          Your “free will” *is* the process by which you select actions. For humans, that’s a bunch of physics and chemistry happening in your brain; it receives influences from your senses, your body, and its own self-awareness (i.e. its model of you, your actions, tendencies, etc.). Whether that process depends closely on QM, or is boringly classical, doesn’t control how “self-determined” it is.
          """
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      +body: """
        I am not sure you replied to the right comment since I never mentioned free will at all but was more interested in how a person believing in determinism handles the current state of science that at least suggests the existence of true randomness.  \n
        In my eyes true randomness contradicts a deterministic world, but I am interested to learn more from anyone who is more educated on this topic.\n
        \n
        If I understand you correctly I agree with you though that what might be called free will is what happens in an individuals brain when they make a decision.  \n
        The discussion whether this decision making process in the brain can be truly free is a very interesting one, but not the one I wanted to have.\n
        \n
        My personal layman’s opinion is that my brain has enough uniqueness to it that the decisions I make are individually mine and there are other unique people that make their own individual choices.  \n
        If those choices and decisions are truly free matters less to me as long as they are truly individual.
        """
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      I’m not the other person, but I think you might be confusing the term “determinism.” I think you might also have a bit of an over-enthusiastic understanding of quantum mechanics, which is a very common problem when people have QM explained in lay person terms I’m not going to get into the QM stuff because I’m a biologist and not a physicist, and I think your world just became more interesting with your new information. I’d just say hold off on the conclusions until you read a bit more, and start sliding towards the actual science books rather than the pop science books as you get your feet under you. You’ll have a different appreciation once you can read an advanced undergraduate textbook on modern physics.\n
      \n
      Determinism as used here means behavioral determinism. There is significant evidence that a large number of our actions and reactions aren’t thought through, but rather are “automatic” responses. In fact, some neuroimaging work on decision-making has indicated that we reach a conclusion and then reverse-justify it by thinking we’re thinking about it. My subconscious mind has already decided to buy the bagel, but my conscious mind is still talking itself into it.\n
      \n
      Again, people can take that kind of thing to an unjustified extreme. I think free will exists in a limited sense, but that it is highly constrained. In this case (the original question, not the person to whom you’re replying) is using their own misunderstanding of behavioral determinism to excuse their misbehavior. It’s a self-indulgent philosophy that you can probably pick apart if you really wanted to spend the time and effort in making them meticulously explain every step and aspect of their position, but it’s probably easier to just drop the person or to deal with them while remembering they’re possibly clinically psychotic, but almost definitely at least an asshole.
      """
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  +body: """
    First off, thank you for the detailed response.  \n
    I recognize that you know more about this than me so I am happy to learn.\n
    \n
    There are a couple of points in your post though that I want to reply to.\n
    \n
    > Determinism as used here means behavioral determinism.\n
    \n
    That is explicitly **not** what I want to talk about.  \n
    I might have misworded my first post or misunderstood op but I understand determinism as the view that with perfect information over any system it can be predetermined what will happen in the future of this system. Wikipedia says: [Determinism is the philosophical view that events are completely determined by previously existing causes.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Determinism)\n
    \n
    I thought that to be the case for a long time.  \n
    If I could control all the variables I could roll a die to a 6 every time or at least tell the outcome as soon as it’s thrown if I know everything else there is to know.\n
    \n
    I also recognize that my understanding of modern physics is minimal at best.  \n
    But a physicist friend of mine told me that there is stuff that is truly random, so in gross simplification if I throw the exact same die in the exact same way under the exact same conditions it could still show different results making it impossible to predetermine the result.\n
    \n
    If that is the case I don’t think this world is a system where it is possible to determine the future even with perfect information.\n
    \n
    And maybe you are right that my knowledge is just too superficial to hold a real opinion in the debate between determinism and indeterminism, but I also don’t really have a horse in this race.  \n
    Just if you were to ask me as a layman I would think indeterminism to be more plausible given the (grossly simplified) information above.\n
    \n
    The OP that I replied to described himself as a determinist, so I was just curious of their response.  \n
    But now I got a lot of other input to think about so I am happy either way.\n
    \n
    Again, none if this is meant to attack you and I realize to someone more informed this might just seem as random rambling, but I was just honestly interested so thank you again for the response.
    """
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        A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
        -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        **Rules: (interactive)**\n
        ------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
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        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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    +slug: "What-s-the-best-response-to-someone-who-believes-in-hard"
    +title: "What's the best response to someone who believes in hard determinism but also uses this to deny responsibility for any immoral actions they commit?"
    +url: null
    +body: "That is, they think all of their decisions were preordained, and then use this to claim that they can’t be held responsible for anything they do."
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            +body: """
              I’m a fairly hardcore/radical determinist, and tend to agree that individuals shouldn’t be held morally responsible for actions, any more than a hammer is morally responsible for driving a nail. However, that does not mean people should be free from *consequence*. There are plenty of reasons - even as a hardcore determinist - to hold people to account for their actions, either as a social corrective mechanism, public safety, deterrent, or personal sanity.\n
              \n
              As for getting their actions to align with your morals, that’s a more complicated question that depends on the type of person they are.
              """
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            I am genuinely and in good faith interested what you think about quantum mechanics and that there seems to be an element of true randomness there.\n
            \n
            I was pretty much a determinist until an actual physicist that I know and respect told me that he is totally convinced that there is stuff in quantum mechanics that just cannot be predetermined.\n
            \n
            And if anything can be undeterminable then by influencing other things there would exist true randomness and then a fully deterministic world cannot exist in my eyes.  \n
            But I am very willing to learn more if you know a good counter-argument since I always thought determinism is quite an elegant view of the world.  \n
            I just cannot follow it if I am not convinced it is true.
            """
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          Randomness doesn’t really save traditional free will. A robot that selects its actions by rolling dice is not any more “free to choose” than a robot that selects its actions according to a deterministic program. There isn’t any free-will juice that gets introduced by adding randomness.\n
          \n
          Your “free will” *is* the process by which you select actions. For humans, that’s a bunch of physics and chemistry happening in your brain; it receives influences from your senses, your body, and its own self-awareness (i.e. its model of you, your actions, tendencies, etc.). Whether that process depends closely on QM, or is boringly classical, doesn’t control how “self-determined” it is.
          """
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        I am not sure you replied to the right comment since I never mentioned free will at all but was more interested in how a person believing in determinism handles the current state of science that at least suggests the existence of true randomness.  \n
        In my eyes true randomness contradicts a deterministic world, but I am interested to learn more from anyone who is more educated on this topic.\n
        \n
        If I understand you correctly I agree with you though that what might be called free will is what happens in an individuals brain when they make a decision.  \n
        The discussion whether this decision making process in the brain can be truly free is a very interesting one, but not the one I wanted to have.\n
        \n
        My personal layman’s opinion is that my brain has enough uniqueness to it that the decisions I make are individually mine and there are other unique people that make their own individual choices.  \n
        If those choices and decisions are truly free matters less to me as long as they are truly individual.
        """
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      I’m not the other person, but I think you might be confusing the term “determinism.” I think you might also have a bit of an over-enthusiastic understanding of quantum mechanics, which is a very common problem when people have QM explained in lay person terms I’m not going to get into the QM stuff because I’m a biologist and not a physicist, and I think your world just became more interesting with your new information. I’d just say hold off on the conclusions until you read a bit more, and start sliding towards the actual science books rather than the pop science books as you get your feet under you. You’ll have a different appreciation once you can read an advanced undergraduate textbook on modern physics.\n
      \n
      Determinism as used here means behavioral determinism. There is significant evidence that a large number of our actions and reactions aren’t thought through, but rather are “automatic” responses. In fact, some neuroimaging work on decision-making has indicated that we reach a conclusion and then reverse-justify it by thinking we’re thinking about it. My subconscious mind has already decided to buy the bagel, but my conscious mind is still talking itself into it.\n
      \n
      Again, people can take that kind of thing to an unjustified extreme. I think free will exists in a limited sense, but that it is highly constrained. In this case (the original question, not the person to whom you’re replying) is using their own misunderstanding of behavioral determinism to excuse their misbehavior. It’s a self-indulgent philosophy that you can probably pick apart if you really wanted to spend the time and effort in making them meticulously explain every step and aspect of their position, but it’s probably easier to just drop the person or to deal with them while remembering they’re possibly clinically psychotic, but almost definitely at least an asshole.
      """
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    First off, thank you for the detailed response.  \n
    I recognize that you know more about this than me so I am happy to learn.\n
    \n
    There are a couple of points in your post though that I want to reply to.\n
    \n
    > Determinism as used here means behavioral determinism.\n
    \n
    That is explicitly **not** what I want to talk about.  \n
    I might have misworded my first post or misunderstood op but I understand determinism as the view that with perfect information over any system it can be predetermined what will happen in the future of this system. Wikipedia says: [Determinism is the philosophical view that events are completely determined by previously existing causes.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Determinism)\n
    \n
    I thought that to be the case for a long time.  \n
    If I could control all the variables I could roll a die to a 6 every time or at least tell the outcome as soon as it’s thrown if I know everything else there is to know.\n
    \n
    I also recognize that my understanding of modern physics is minimal at best.  \n
    But a physicist friend of mine told me that there is stuff that is truly random, so in gross simplification if I throw the exact same die in the exact same way under the exact same conditions it could still show different results making it impossible to predetermine the result.\n
    \n
    If that is the case I don’t think this world is a system where it is possible to determine the future even with perfect information.\n
    \n
    And maybe you are right that my knowledge is just too superficial to hold a real opinion in the debate between determinism and indeterminism, but I also don’t really have a horse in this race.  \n
    Just if you were to ask me as a layman I would think indeterminism to be more plausible given the (grossly simplified) information above.\n
    \n
    The OP that I replied to described himself as a determinist, so I was just curious of their response.  \n
    But now I got a lot of other input to think about so I am happy either way.\n
    \n
    Again, none if this is meant to attack you and I realize to someone more informed this might just seem as random rambling, but I was just honestly interested so thank you again for the response.
    """
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        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
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        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
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        \n
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        \n
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        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
        Partnered Communities:\n
        ----------------------\n
        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        ---\n
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        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
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    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#1915 …}
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"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
253 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\Magazine {#265
  +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#246 …}
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  +title: "asklemmy"
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    A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
    -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
    \n
    ---\n
    \n
    **Rules: (interactive)**\n
    ------------------------\n
    \n
    ---\n
    \n
    1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
    \n
    ---\n
    \n
    2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
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    3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
    \n
    ---\n
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    4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
    \n
    ---\n
    \n
    5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
    \n
    ---\n
    \n
    Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
    \n
    Partnered Communities:\n
    ----------------------\n
    \n
    [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
    \n
    [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
    \n
    [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
    \n
    [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
    \n
    [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
    \n
    [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
    \n
    ---\n
    \n
    Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
    \n
    ---\n
    \n
    ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
    """
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"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details